Firefly Movie Using Viral Marketing?

CABridges writes "According to the official movie site, some interesting "security excerpts" have begun popping up online, first at iFilm. The videos (two, so far) appear to depict River Tam during various stages of her incarceration and mental capacity. More to come?" Also, in vaguely related and somewhat humorous news XJHardware writes "For those of you who really need an obsessive/compulsive hobby here's a good example. Seems this fellow Chris Doyle built a model of Serenity from the upcoming movie and too-quickly canceled series Firefly."

Comments

'viral' marketing?

[REBloomfield]

Can someone explain why this is called 'viral' marketing? Seems more like the hype machine at work more than anything else. That thing with the BBC and wikipedia made me wonder the same thing.

Re:'viral' marketing?

[SimilarityEngine]

They are exploiting sites (such as Slashdot) to raise awareness of the film, through word of mouth and such like. We are the ones doing the "viral marketing", simply by having this discussion...

Re:'viral' marketing?

[Kazzahdrane]

I think the idea is that this kind of "marketing" doesn't need to be marketed. You release some information/footage/specs and let the internet go crazy and spread the news for you, like a virus.

Re:'viral' marketing?

[junkcannibal]

What's your point? Why is viral marketing bad. If a company tries to push a bad product through viral marketing, it will fail and I'll never hear about it. At the same time, if a little group tries to push a product through viral marketing (a product they might not have had the resources to promote to me), then if it is good I will be more likely to see it. This may be especially true if the product is pushed through bittorrent. I may go seek out this virus...

Re:'viral' marketing?

[SimilarityEngine]

What's your point? Why is viral marketing bad...

Sorry, but I think you're putting words in my mouth there. I was just trying to explain to GP what viral marketing is, not pass judgement ;^)

Re:'viral' marketing?

[fireboy1919]

You've said the core of it. "Viral marketing" is just another way of saying "word of mouth advertising." Some would argue that their different - that word of mouth only encompasses data transmission using actual mouths...but that's just silly, isn't it? Word of mouth/viral marketing just means peer to peer advertising, with the majority of it done for free.

Calling it viral marketing is just spin. Kind of like saying that copying software is piracy.

Re:'viral' marketing?

[nine-times]

Well, it's a little more specific, I think. Viral marketing tends to imply that the "word of mouth advertising" is started by releasing small amounts of obscure or confusing information. It doesn't look like an ad. It looks like a leak or something they don't want you to know about.

So the "word of mouth" when people say, "what the hell is this?" and the mystery/obscurity of the information drives the spread, not the virtues of the product. Viral marketing works on something like reverse psychology. The point is, whatever they're selling is so cool and underground, you shouldn't really know about it, so everyone wants to know about it.

Re:'viral' marketing?

[Robotech_Master]

If you'd like to learn more than you ever wanted to know about viral marketing, check out Spreading the Ideavirus by Seth Godin. You can read it free as an ebook.

The idea behind viral marketing is that you don't really have to pay for marketing...if you can get people who are totally into what you're marketing to do it for you for free. The idea spreads like a virus--hence the name.

Re:'viral' marketing?

[Miaowara_Tomokato]

I would disagree that junkcannibal was putting words in your mouth. Why use the negatively-associated word 'exploit' rather than the more neutral 'utilize'? It seems slightly disingenuous to suggest that there was no judgment in your post.

exploit
1. To employ to the greatest possible advantage: exploit one's talents.
2. To make use of selfishly or unethically: a country that exploited peasant labor. Synonym: manipulate.

If you were after Def. 1 as you likely will claim, this alternative fits better, and without the underlying negativity:

utilize
1. To put to use, especially to find a profitable or practical use for.

Re:'viral' marketing?

[superspaz]

Viral marketing as I understand it is a marketing company faking hype about something. Viral marketing can involve paying someone to walk around a major city listening to a song on their headphones and giving strangers a listen to "this great new band I just found" or making posts by a "number of people" discussing a movie in a forum to get more people interested.

Re:'viral' marketing?

[Digital Pizza]

The word "viral" itself has a negative connotation, when all it really is is "word-of-mouth" advertising. Although the seed is planted intentionally by marketers, the word can only spread due to the idea's own merit.

BTW, please note the distinction between the idea's merit and the actual movie's merit; many things sound good until you actually experience them, although in this case I expect Firefly to live up to expectations (there I go contributing to the "viral" spread :).

Anyway, the phrase "viral marketing" is far more negative-sounding than is justified by what is probably the most honest form of advertising possible.

Re:'viral' marketing?

[pod]

It's basically astroturf word of mouth. Word of mouth implies that the people who started this were fans who discoverred some tidbit of information. Viral marketing is marketing, where the initial seed is intentionally planted to start a grassroots movement.

Firewhat?

[Anonymous Coward]

Firefox changing name again?

Re:Firewhat?

[Soybean47]

What I don't understand is why there are people who aren't Joss Whedon fanboys.

Re:Firewhat?

[EddieBurkett]

No. Right now it is just the Joss Whedon fanboys (of which I am one) who are interested in the movie, and it will probably just be them who go to see the movie. But the problem with being a Whedon fanboy is that we think the show was so good, we want everyone to see it, effectively converting them in to fanboys. So just save you and me the time, go get yourselves the DVD's of the show, and become one of us. Resistance isn't futile, but its going to be a pain for us both...

Re:Firewhat?

[elrous0]

I liked Firefly. It was original and clever. But Joss Whedon's other stuff sucked.

Buffy was mch better in movie form (with a director smart enough to play it tongue and cheek). The series was laughable.

-Eric

Re:Firewhat?

[darkitecture]

Well I'm NOT a fan of Joss Whedon's previous work. At all. I can't stand Buffy or Angel. But I LOVE Firefly. I think there's a potential market for both Whedon fanboys and new fans.

Seriously people, for those who hate Buffy or Angel, don't be fooled into thinking it's more of the same. Firefly is completely different to his previous stuff and definitely worth the hype, DVDs and movies. I yearn for more episodes to be made. Please, give Firefly a shot!

Re:Firewhat?

[DavidTC]

Firefly contains what Buffy and Angel fans love about the show.

However, if you actually tried those shows, and didn't like them, then Firefly probably does not contains what turned you off.

And that incidentally works the other way, too.

The key is that Whedon can write. He can write amazing characters and damn good plots, and he always has interesting ideas. And he knows how to pick actors, and great supporting writers. This is why he, himself, has fans, instead of just his shows. Joss Whedon could air sixty minutes of static, and I'd probably sit through the whole thing once, just because, in my experience, it'd be worth it.

The actual 'shows'...I dunno. He always takes really silly premises and makes them work. Sometimes people look at the premise and never start the show, in which case he says 'Good riddence'.

Sometimes people can't 'buy' the premise so they quit watching the show after an episode or two, and I think that's a shame, but understandable. You can't really get into a show if you constantly think it's a goofy idea.

But the premise is about the only thing people dislike about Buffy, Angel, or Firefly, and obviously doesn't translate between Buffy/Angel and Firefly, so if you disliked one check out the other anyway.

And, hell, you may find you like his stories so much you're willing to watch the other series. The premise ususally only sounds funny. You'll stop thinking the Buffy premise is 'funny' right around 'Prophecy Girl'.

Re:Firewhat?

[Soybean47]

Thank you for the example! This is exactly what I was talking about. I don't understand this.

Yes, Firefly's "style" of characters and dialogue is similar to Buffy. But how is that awful? What TV shows are you watching?

I can see how someone might be turned off by the setting of either show (or both). "Vampires? That's weird!" or "Space...western? No, no, no...this doesn't make any sense at all!" are both fine with me. They are somewhat narrow-minded viewpoints, I think, but I can at least comprehend how someone might think that way. But complaining about the characters and dialogue?

I just don't get it.

Re:Firewhat?

[eurasian]

Ditto what darkitechure said. Not a fan (avoid at all costs) Angel and Buffy, love Firefly.

Re:Firewhat?

[Master of Transhuman]

I'm waiting for Fire-Groundhog and its email companion ThunderChicken.

Re:Firewhat?

[crabpeople]

actually no i always hated the buffy tv show as i felt that it could never come close to the ownage that was the 1992 movie with kristy swanson. Firefly on the other hand is amazing. i didnt even know the guy who wrote? directed? buffy and the many spinoffs was associated with this project.

i would put buffy and all that in the same catagory as dawsons creek and 90210 but firefly is amazing. its kind of like the game fallout in space, or the new BSG. they really need to make an MMORPG in that universe.

Re:Firewhat?

[Teogue]

Am I missing something? I'm done with the first 2 dvds and will be watching the others relatively soon.

I really like the show, except for a couple of episodes... The ones Joss wrote. They're trite and overdone. Tim Minears episodes have been the best w/o a doubt... And what's with switching writers and directors so much. It really... really effects the quality of the show.

Any thoughts?

Re:Firewhat?

[DavidTC]

There are obviously good episodes and bad episodes.

And at least two places where the show doesn't quite know where it's going, early season four and almost all of season six, where they are transitioning from not being in high school or Buffy not being dead, respectively. (Ironically, those two areas contain two of the best hours of TV ever aired, Hush and the musical.) It's probable you caught one of those seasons.

If you did, season six does not represent the show as a whole. ;) The theme of that season was 'your own worst enemy is yourself', and damn if they didn't pull that one off.

And season four was just uneven at the start, thanks to the lack of the high school and Angel. Once Adam showed up it got a bit better.

If you want to get hooked on show, through, there's only one place to start: The first episode, Welcome to the Hellmouth, and watch all of season one. It's only 12 episodes, so that's like 9 hours, and what the hell else are you watching this summer?

Ignore the craptacular special effects, they get better, season one apparently had a special effects budget of 'Some guy I know named Murray who can do that kind of stuff', and put up with the craptacular David Boreanaz (Angel, aka the mysterious shadow advice giver man.) acting, he gets much much better.

And after you watch that, and then go out and buy season two, and then run out in a panic because you need to know what happened season three, you'll be invested in the show enough to wait for it to find its ground in season four to get to the amazing season five. And then you can't possible leave it as that, so you'll have to get season six, which you'll either like or dislike, but you'll go out and get seven.

Viral Marketing

[kevin_conaway]

For those that don't know (myself included), Wikipedia is your friend

Re:Viral Marketing

[dan the person]

No need for an encyclopedia to explain the concept.

It's simply another term for "word of mouth".

Re:Viral Marketing

[mmkkbb]

Not exactly. It's socially engineered word-of-mouth.

Re:Viral Marketing

[Legion303]

Even more precisely, it's a marketing attempt to generate buzz about a product by getting company whores to act like real people and claim their product is great. As such, I wouldn't go within 100 yards of this movie no matter how much I liked the series (assuming I'd ever watched it). Not because the company whores are necessarily wrong about the awesomeness of their product, but because marketing hacks are soulless leeches and they all deserve to be kicked in the nuts.

Re:Viral Marketing

[Harbinjer]

Issn't that called astro-turfing? In other words artificial grass-roots type thing?

Or is this somehow the same thing?

Re:Viral Marketing

[th3space]

You must not see many movies, buy many products, or utilize many services, then. Tell me, what is life like 'off of the grid'?

Seriously, how do you propose we escape the 'soulles leeches' that are marketing professionals? Boycotting products isn't going to work, they'll just shift over to another ad agency...I suppose we could petition for the demise of the industry, but in its stead would likely rise a newer, sleeker, more agile, and more full of bitter assholes industry designed to invade your every waking moment. In fact, they're already working on that...commercials that *go with you*. Someone on NPR's On The Media was espousing the virtues of this altogether unholy technology. You watch a show, but leave during the commercials, and magically, the commercials show up in other places where you happen to be...radio, random televisions, etc. I refuse to look up a link for it, given that it is pure evil, but it is being worked on.

Given the choice, I'd rather deal with 'soulless leeches' and 'viral marketing' than whatever it is they've got planned for the future...

Re:Viral Marketing

[FireFury03]

No need for an encyclopedia to explain the concept.

The term "viral" immediately gives the impression that it's bad. However, I think in this context it's good - the "marketting" is well targetted, so doesn't annoy people who aren't interested, and is interesting to those targetted (if it wasn't, it wouldn't work).

Re:Viral Marketing

[DavidTC]

Did you see the question mark at the end of the headline? Did you even read the linked site?

It's just two clips depicting Summer Glau in character.

What these clips probably are are things Joss used to convince people to let him make the movie, as he himself is in one and probably two of them.

And instead of viral marketing (Why the hell would people market on the damn Firefly and Summer Glau websites? We're seeing the movie.), it's probably just leaked.

Alternately, they're video Whedon isn't supposed to release, but the movie was supposed to be out a month ago and got pushed back to the end of next month, so he's probably bored. (This is the man who urged people to download the third season finale of Buffy when the WB didn't air it.)

But that isn't viral marketing. Viral marketing would be to come to place like, oh, slashdot, to advertise the movie by setting up a pretend contraversy about 'viral marketing', not secretly leaking videos to Firefly fans, who are all going to see the movie repeatedly.

Re:Viral Marketing

[bigpat]

Even more precisely, it's a marketing attempt to generate buzz about a product by getting company whores to act like real people and claim their product is great. As such, I wouldn't go within 100 yards of this movie no matter how much I liked the series (assuming I'd ever watched it). Not because the company whores are necessarily wrong about the awesomeness of their product, but because marketing hacks are soulless leeches and they all deserve to be kicked in the nuts.

here here. I'd much rather they stick to parading around scantilly clad women to promote products. That is money well spent.

Re:Viral Marketing

[Thu25245]

As I understand it, "astro-turfing" is a similar concept used to support a political cause. For example, a politician might send anonymous campaign workers to pose as "activists" at a rally, where they would spread the candidate's message. (Deliberately vague, but I don't want to get political.)

Viral marketing is the same thing done by companies, for money. See also "slashvertisement."

Re:Viral Marketing

[bigpat]

Issn't that called astro-turfing? In other words artificial grass-roots type thing?

How is this "artificial" if you can convince unpaid people that your product or cause is worth telling other people about? I heard the buzz over the last few years, all the people saying how great the series was and it was a sin that it was canceled. I bought the DVDs and I agree and I want as many people as possible to know that we were deprived of good art by stupid executives at Fox that were apparently unwilling to continue with the series, probably because of the riske nature of the series' atmosphere in light of political pressures at the time.

Marketers can't artificially create a self sustaining buzz, they can only serve to help get it started. If I had bought the DVDs and they sucked then I would have told people that it was a bunch of horse shit. But they didn't suck, it was a great series. You know the type of thing that you can't stop watching all weekend long even though you have lots of shit to do? And I'm not talking about the bad monster movies on the sci fi channel that you watch when nothing else motivates you to leave the couch on a Sunday afternoon. I'm talking about really interesting stories with some hillarious dialog. They got it, they got it good.

There is nothing artificial about successful viral marketing, especially as regards to Serenity. And if it is unsuccessful then who cares.

Re:Viral Marketing

[Ibix]

Given the choice, I'd rather deal with 'soulless leeches' and 'viral marketing' than whatever it is they've got planned for the future...

You won't have the choice, of course. In my experience, people see advertising as noise and filter it out. There are two solutions to this for the advertisers - make adverts more intrusive, or disguise them as "signal". Product placement and viral marketing are examples of the latter; your "follow you around" adverts are an example of the former.

Neither strategy will work in the long term, because we'll just improve our various filter mechanisms. They'll invent something more intrusive then. Aren't you looking forward to that?

I

Re:Viral Marketing

[smooth wombat]

You must not see many movies, buy many products, or utilize many services, then. Tell me, what is life like 'off of the grid'?

While I'm not the person to whom you are replying, I believe I can still answer your question.

It's great! I have tons of money lying around to do what I want, if I so choose (right now its house buying). I don't see movies because it costs way too much. That and there aren't any that I want to see though in the case of 'Virgin' I'll probably go rent it in a few months.

I don't buy many products. I buy what I need first and then, if there is something I would like to have which has a purpose and will be used, then I'll consider buying the product. I can't remember the last time I looked at a newspaper insert advertising clothes or other products. I know what I want and will find it. I don't need your (not you personally but the advertisers) help in making decisions as to what I need.

I don't utilize many services either. I don't have a cel phone (don't have a need for one nor do I care to have people calling me simply for the sake of calling), I don't have all the bells and whistles for phone service (unlimited calling does just fine; no need for long distance either) and I don't use online banking (4 checks a month doesn't require that much effort).

As far as your comments re: commercials. Why yes, I do get up and walk away when they come on. I usually hit the mute button also. I go do dishes or some other activity for the 3 minutes the commercials are on. I even, gasp!, do some exercises. When they come on the radio I either turn to a different station or turn the volume down so I can't hear anything.

Billboards and ads on the web are black spots to me. I don't even see them anymore.

All in all I have a nice life. Not great but then very few people have a great life. I have exactly what I need and a bit more for comfort. It's great not having any credit card debt or any debt for that matter. I get a good laugh when I overhear people around me talking about how hard it is to make ends meet when all they'd have to do is stop being slaves to marketing hype.

Re:Viral Marketing

[Rhinobird]

Asto-turfing is creating fake grass roots.

Which then make this sort of thing more akin to prmitive farming or cultivation. The grass and roots are real, but seeds do have to planted and allowed to grow. what would we call it? Farmed grass? Cultivated roots? Lawn grass (as opposed to wild grass roots)? Bamboo?

Re:Viral Marketing

[servognome]

The grass and roots are real, but seeds do have to planted and allowed to grow. what would we call it? Farmed grass? Cultivated roots? Lawn grass (as opposed to wild grass roots)? Bamboo?

How about domestication of geeks?

Re:Viral Marketing

[Thomas A. Anderson]

Except this is not at all what the makers of Serenity (and/or the makers of these small videos) are doing so either your definition is wrong or the application of this term to this strategy is wrong.

Re:Viral Marketing

[Cecil]

"Sodding". As in, "Those sodding bastards".

Re:Viral Marketing

[RedWizzard]

Isn't that called astro-turfing?

It is similar. But the goal of astroturfing is to create support for something by giving the impression of support (by apparently "neutral" third parties) where none exists. It's fundamentally dishonest. The goal of viral marketing is to create support by getting customers to spread the word themselves, usually by engaging their curiosity with something mysterious. The best viral marketing campaigns are not dishonest, though lately companies have taken to getting people to spread the word by givening them prizes or even just paying them which can get dishonest if those people are pretending that they don't have a business relationship with the marketing team.

Re:Viral Marketing

[Snaller]

Actually it is what they write.

Re:Viral Marketing

[jwo7777777]

here here. ...

hear hear.

T,FTFY

Re:Viral Marketing

[Thing 1]

I prefer "bacterial marketing".

And, of course, a good full-spectrum antibiotic!

It will never work!

[bigtallmofo]

Nobody will fall for such obvious viral marketing techniques by spreading the news on their site. I'll be surprised if I ever even hear of this.

Re:It will never work!

[Serenity.Flan]

"I'll be surprised if I ever even hear of this." You already have...

The Virual Jackpot

[buffy]

Posted on Slashdot? We hit the jackpot, baby! Virual Marketing Gold!

Just watch the hit counter in the next hour or so.

Re:WTF

[raventh1]

Watch this:
http://www.apple.com/trailers/universal/serenity/t railer_2/

Go buy / rent this:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000 0AQS0F/qid=1124886150/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-4982 309-0060827?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846

Ahem -- Lego

[sigmaseven]

Seems this fellow Chris Doyle built a model of Serenity from the upcoming movie

There's a key word missing from this sentence that might put it into a clearer perspective, and that word is Lego. That said, the Lego Wash is adorable.

Re:Ahem -- Lego

[KingSkippus]

Wouldn't it be great if they shot some of the scenes on full-size Lego sets? I know that's one extra feature that would be a sure way to get me to buy the DVD!

I hope that someone makes a Lego version of the movie at some point.

Oh, and you're right, the Lego version of the crew is awesome, though I have to reserve "adorable" to describe Lego Kaylee! Lego Jayne and Lego Book are too funny...

Re:Ahem -- Lego

[Salvo]

I think Book would look better if the Hair was similar to Jane Goodall's Hair in Irregular Webcomic. It's basically a normal Grey Hair Piece with a blob of Blu-tak stuck on the back, as a bun.

from the movie?

[theblueprint]

As a big Firefly fan, I wonder if these scenes are from the movie, or if they're something made for "hype" only. I haven't seen any of the trailers yet, and I don't want to watch these if it's footage from the movie.

If these are some shorts that are excluisve of the movie content, I think it's a good idea. Fanboys can get their "fix" and not spoil anything.

Re:from the movie?

[Chyeld]

It is the second option rather than the first. Check the site posted for more information (hint: the FAQ is linked from the main page.)

Re:from the movie?

[DavidTC]

Yeah, because that's what Whedon is famous for. Good special effects, bad acting, and shoddy stories.

Wait, crap, that's the other way around.

Re:from the movie?

[Giddeon]

Having seen a preview showing, I can tell you that they are exclusive original content.

In my mind viral marketing is not a bad thing - it's like a company giving out free swag. Everyone loves swag!

oblig

[Anonymous Coward]

Shiny!

Re:oblig

[Anonymous Coward]

I see your "shiny!" and raise you:

Kaylee: Figures - first time in the Core, and what do I get to do? Dig through trash. Why couldn't he send me shopping at the Tri-plex, or ...Ooh! Synchronizers!

Re:All to quickly?

[N8F8]

Fox was going for a different target market than what the show was bringing in. Cosidering it did get decent viewership in spite of the fact they aired the series completely out of order should a one indicator of the suckiness. Another is the fat that it is still one of the top box sets at Amazon two years on with very little marketing.

Those were lame

[pHatidic]

I have to say though that the DVD series was my best purchase of the last year. I was skeptical when I bought it because some of the Amazon commenters were saying that the only reason it was getting five stars was because of people rating it over and over. However, having watched it I think it really lives up to the hype and then some. I'm just sad they aren't making any more, it was the only drama I've ever actually liked.

Re:Those were lame

[justforaday]

I just finished watching the series last week and I hafta say that I was pretty damn impressed. Sure, it's not the best show that's ever been made, and it certainly had it's cheesy moments (totally intentional according to the behind the scenes bits). But all in all it made for some damn entertaining television. Looking forward to seeing the movie next month...

Re:Those were lame

[dancallaghan]

some of the Amazon commenters were saying that the only reason it was getting five stars was because of people rating it over and over

But surely our friend Jeff would have already patented a "novel method of filtering duplicate product ratings by unique Internet number address"?

Re:Those were lame

[sacherjj]

It doesn't have to be the same person voting over and over. The browncoats are many and strong. :) But I also believe it stands up to the hype. After watching them with my girlfriend who had not even seen the series, she asked me "Why in the world did they cancel this?"

Re:Those were lame

[zippthorne]

Did you respond with, "Why hadn't you seen the series?"

Re:Those were lame

[sacherjj]

Well, to be honest I first replied that Fox needed to make room for "When Animals Attack Young Midget Moms", but I eventually asked that. The answer was, "No one I knew at the time had even heard of it." We should be watching Season 4 now. :(

Re:Those were lame

[DavidTC]

It didn't live up the hype, but it was the only drama you're ever actually liked?

WTF? You were expecting it to cure cancer or something?

Re:Those were lame

[bobcat7677]

The DVDs are great. Some friends and I are planning a "pre-movie" party where we will show some of the episodes from the DVDs a few days before the movie comes out. So far interest is good and some people will be there that never saw the show when it was on TV...

Re:Those were lame

[Aeiri]

I've been hearing stuff about how Firefly is so awesome, how it is one of the best SciFi shows ever made, and how everyone hates SciFi for cancelling the show (or was it Fox or something?).

A friend has the DVD set, I found out, so I sat down to watch it with my brother, who also wanted to see it. Started with the two hour pilot (was this a mistake?), and at about the one hour to one hour 15 minute mark, we put it away so we didn't fall asleep.

What I saw of the show makes me wonder how it was approved as a show in the first place. The whole western/SciFi mix does NOT work well at all.

Re:Those were lame

[zippthorne]

I'm guilty of tuning out after the first show. I know people claim that people tuned out because they were out of order. Or that the "first" episode was designed to be more action-packed to make up for the pilots allegedly slow pacing.

I say bollox. I watched the first episode and thought to myself, "Oh look another sci-fi series that conveniently (for the budget) takes place in a post-apocolyptic old-west setting. How very original. This won't be like Cleopatra 2525, Stargate SG-1 or half the worlds of Star Trek at all."

Later I saw 'Outlaw Star' on Cartoon and as a result, will probably watch the film.

outlaw star ship's navigation system/crew member: malfina (who was thawed from being frozen for the purpose of smuggling her somewhere in the first episode)

firefly Captain's name + ship name in a latinish construct:
Mal + flamma

coincidence? or homage? you be the judge.

Re:Those were lame

[mink]

Outlaw Star predates Firefly by many years.

The only thing the two shows have in common is the chick in a box situation. Even that is rather diferent in detail. Dont go watching Firefly expecting it to be Outlaw Star. You will be massively dissapointed by the lack of spaceships punching each other.

Re:Those were lame

[zippthorne]

There are other similarities.

1. Sino-Anglo "confeceracy" in firefly, the two remaining human superpowers in outlaw star are: some kind of english speaking european type power and some kind of mandarin speaking red-china type power. The main characters of course belong to a third group, outlaw to both.
   
2. final episode (on dvd) supposedly has a line to the effect of "I have become the ship" uttered by the mysterious "frozen chick"
   
3. Secret agents (government? para-government? they obviously work for the real power brokers) chasing after the experiment have mystical 'powers' analogous to the organization in outlaw star chasing after the ship&malfina
   

I think many of the plot points and names are meant to be homage to outlaw star. Perhaps that's wishful thinking and they're "meerly" archetypal, but we'll see when the movie comes out and more is revealed about the nature of the experiment and maybe the preacher's relation to it. If it weren't for OS, I would've never given Firefly another chance, but it stands on its own. the train robbery was just a terrible episode to start with.

Re:Those were lame

[mink]

Please tell me you are not using that horribly inaccurate Wikipedia submission as a basis for things as it has major problems with factual accuracy of it's claims. For instance no corporation created Melfina, the person who opend the case containing either character was not the one who stole them.

"Sino-Anglo "confeceracy" in firefly, the two remaining human superpowers in outlaw star are: some kind of english speaking european type power and some kind of mandarin speaking red-china type power. The main characters of course belong to a third group, outlaw to both."

From what I remember (in Outlaw Star) one group is the Pirates and the other is the government.

"final episode (on dvd) supposedly has a line to the effect of "I have become the ship" uttered by the mysterious "frozen chick""

I cant tell if you are talking about the final of Firefly or Outlaw Star.

Melfina was "part" of the ship from the start, she navigates the ship and could perceive the galactic lay line. This is rather different from River, and if you get into her biology and Rivers powers it's even more drastic a difference. As for what River said, it was her messing with the mind of the bounty hunter, nothing more. she was in his ship using the comm system, at the time she made that statement.

"Secret agents (government? para-government? they obviously work for the real power brokers) chasing after the experiment have mystical 'powers' analogous to the organization in outlaw star chasing after the ship&malfina."

The dudes chasing them with the "mystic powers" (Tao Magic) were the Kei Pirates. They were after the ship and her so they could get the power of the galactic lay line. They did not make the ship or Melfina, but were "helping" the mad scientist who made them for their own ends. I don't quite see the connection to Firefly there, but you seem to. In firefly the company that "hurt" River used it's own super-dudes to hunt them, and a few bounty hunters got involved because the money was good (even Jayne turned on them).

May I ask about the plot points and names you mention? I don't buy the "Mal" nickname being in relation to Melfina, as his first name is Malcolm

I like both shows, there may in fact be some nods to Outlaw Star in Firefly, but everyone asked seems to say that isn't the case and the examples I see most often are singular (chick frozen in box) or vague (bad guys are chasing them, it's the same). I think there are more major differences then major likenesses.

If you blur the details a lot more matches up. I think if you looked you could make a list of things showing how Firefly was based on Cowboy Bebop, or Trigun, maybe even Space Adventure Cobra. Heck both Firefly and Outlaw Star can be compared to Sol Bianca, Brave Star, and countless other cartoon/live action TV series.

Re:All to quickly?

[Kazzahdrane]

Sorry you think that, but I have to disagree. I bought the DVD set a few months ago on a whim and loved it. I then lent it to a friend who wasn't particularly enthusiastic and received a text message from him that very night saying "Firefly kicks ass, shame there's so little of it left to watch". That's a perfect 2 out of 2, and last week I lent it to my 53 year old father, let's see if he likes it too. Just because not many people watched a show doesn't mean it sucked. You obviously weren't one of the people trying to get tickets for a Serenity screening this year, I tried to get one for the Edinburgh International Film Festival next Sunday and the ticket lines were engaged and the booking computer went down under the load. If Serenity is a good movie it will be a hit, because the fans won't let it be hidden amongst the competition.

WTF?!

[CProgrammer98]

Am I the only one who doesn't have a single clue about what the summary is talking about?! Guess I have to go RTFA...

Re:WTF?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Go check out: www.fireflyfans.net for more info - it's quite an active online community with tons of good info on the show etc.

Re:All to quickly?

[Gannoc]

I know this is a troll. I know it. I know it.

Nonetheless, I have to say that despite the tendancy for geeks to latch on to a crappy cancelled show, Firefly was a great series. Rent/Buy/Steal the DVD and check it out for yourself.

Re:All to quickly?

[khalido]

Its quite good actually. A lot better than most other scfi crap (which to be fair, most of the scifi shows are just that - crap).

Skip the excerpts checkout the Legos

[astrokid]

I skipped the 'viral marketing' portion for fear of spoilers.

The lego version of Serenity is terrific though and very detailed, it's a shame he couldn't build it to scale such that they could fit in there.

Wish I could get blueprints for it... I guess I would always wing it :)

Re:Skip the excerpts checkout the Legos

[Chyeld]

Seen them, read about them, liked them. Don't fear spoilers. It's stuff you should already be able to figure out if you've seen the series and not from the movie from all accounts. It IS new video created specificly for this campaign.

Watch it, it's interesting.

Re:Skip the excerpts checkout the Legos

[cybrhippy]

I found this http://www.fireflywiki.org/ site when I went looking for the theme song. I was hoping there was a longer version out there somewhere. They have blueprints and other info about the show.

Re:All to quickly?

[Spad]

I'm actually going to see it tonight at the Birmingham (UK)preview screening, which sold out within a day. Every review & preview of Serenity that I've read has been excellent, with many tipping it to be one of, if not the best film of the year.

For a film that's hardly had a huge marketing campaign, it's generated an awful lot of hype in the movie-going community.

Coral Cache link - before we slash him

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.reasonablyclever.com.nyud.net:8090/lego /firefly/index.htm

Whats worrying me...

[nvlass]

.. is that some people get paid to think of such things (marketing plans, etc)... I mean, ok, "Viral Marketing"... What's next? Ad-Worms? No, wait, we already got these... :/

From the Firefly podcast

[lesinator]

I co-host the Firefly/Serenity podcast The Signal. We have already interviewed Adam Baldwin (Jayne), Gina Torres (Zoe) and Ron Glass (Book) and they are all really behind the movie & the Firefly franchise. To quote Adam "Joss called me up the other day and said 'you should see the movie now (with all the effects & final music in place), it is so cherry!'". They really show an enthusiasm & devotion beyond what one would expect if it were just another acting job to them. There are a lot others grass roots efforts like ours out there promoting Serenity from the bottom up. Its very exciting to see the groundswell of anticipation build with with the advance screenings & now other new clever marketing tools that Universal is using.

L

Re:From the Firefly podcast

[elrous0]

They really show an enthusiasm & devotion beyond what one would expect if it were just another acting job to them.

Well, barring "My Bodyguard II" what else has Adam Baldwin got to do with his time?

-Eric

Re:From the Firefly podcast

[lesinator]

Well, barring "My Bodyguard II" what else has Adam Baldwin got to do with his time?

Yeah, Adam hasn't really done much between My Bodyguard and Firefly..... only Full Metal Jacket, ID4, The Patriot, X-Files for 2 seasons, etc...

L

Re:From the Firefly podcast

[elrous0]

Full Metal Jacket

Beginning a long tradition of people confusing him with Vincent D'Onofrio.

ID4

Wtf is "ID4"? I didn't even know they made an Independance Day 2.

The Patriot, X-Files for 2 seasons, etc.WTF? He was in "The Patriot"? When the Hell was he on the X-files?

-Eric

Re:From the Firefly podcast

[lesinator]

ID4 is Independence Day. I've always seen ID4 as the abberviation for it.

in The Patriot he was Capt. Wilkins a loyalist (not a major part, but a major movie)

In the last 2 seasons of the X-Files he was the super soldier. I think he was in around 20 episodes.

Check the earlier IMDB link for a full list of everything he has done.

Re:From the Firefly podcast

[argStyopa]

No, no viral marketing going on here.
Nothing to see.
Please move along.

Re:From the Firefly podcast

[Gauchito]

Parent poster already replied to the others, but in Full Metal Jacket, he was Animal Mother (the guy that carried the M60, I think), one of the members of Cowboy's squad (the squad Matthew Modine's joins as a correspondent in the second half of the movie).

Use Coral Cache link instead...

[KingSkippus]

Good idea, Other Reply Guy. Here's a Coral link to the Lego Serenity crew. Please use it instead. If the guy does get Slashdotted, this link should still (in theory) work, too.

These guys know their market

[zrk]

That's for sure. I saw the trailer for Serenity when we went to go see 'The 40 Year Old Virgin". Hmmm.

Re:what am i missing?

[EddieBurkett]

ok. can i ask, what am i missing? i saw firefly when it was on.

What you're missing is any sense of continuity. When Fox aired the show on tv, they aired the episodes out of order and skipped some episodes. That hurt alot of the subplots that Joss was building over the course of the season. I was a Whedon fan and at the time the show was on tv, I didn't appreciate it much, either. But a friend got me the DVD's, and I went in expecting it not to live up to the hype, and I was way wrong. If you are basing your opinion of the show based on how Fox aired it, you are doing the show a disservice.

The abulance from the show was found...

[doublem]

A guy was poking around in a aircraft graveyard in the American Southwest, and found the flying ambulance from the Firefly episode "Ariel"

He then put the photos up on his journal here.

This isn't viral marketing, it's scavenger hunt marketing!

Re:The abulance from the show was found...

[devross]

It's...got to be fake. The whole thing about how it was the best shot he could get of it "from over the fence" was just made up so he could photoshop in only part of the ambulance and have it look more realistic. It's not a bad fake, that's for sure. And it's not a malicious thing to do. I guess what gets me the most is all the comments after that post and how everyone believes him.

Re:The abulance from the show was found...

[doublem]

An interesting theory. I'll file it under "Entirely possible" until such time as I see someone else post pictures of the same airplane graveyard.

The random nature of the find makes your theory all the more plausible, as does the apparent lack of a follow up photo shoot.

This could be a very subtle case of viral marketing.

Re:The abulance from the show was found...

[Hellboy0101]

Did he check above the visor? Man, the keys could still be there! If they are, then fly that fucker out of there. FREE!! FREE!! FREE!! There's no way Reno 911 could ever catch you!

Err...

[n54]

Time for me to loose some karma!

I watched the trailer (I haven't seen any of the episodes) and this looks like everything I thought silly and degrading to the story in the Matrix movies, everything I hate about Star Wars and Star Trek (wow watch that karma burn). It looked mindlessly stupid filled with corny one-liners, "sexy" bitches and studs that "kick ass". I mean how much more Hollywood can you get?

Now all those things considered it might not be a terrible movie, it might be a fun watch and I don't hate Hollywood, but from all the (Slashdot) hype I was hoping for something at least slightly cerebral (which is stupid of me since this is Slashdot after all).

That's the bottom line: I thought it would be in some regard something else than a sci-fi-themed slugfest. Anyone at all please feel free to correct me if I'm totally wrong.

Re:Err...

[Nutcase]

You are totally wrong.

The dialog and characters in Firefly and Serenity are pretty damn far from Hollywood. The trailer is cut that way because it's a trailer, and wants to depict a typical fun sci-fi action popcorn movie, so more people will see it. You know, marketing.

Watch a few episodes of the show. Then add a much darker plot line, insanely higher levels of space action, and some incredible character twists.

Also, this is NOTHING like Matrix, Star Wars, or Star Trek. It has more in common with The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, or maybe even something like the Bourne Identity.

Re:Err...

[DavidTC]

Don't try to convince people.

Simple locate a person who has the Firefly DVDs, or purchase them yourself, and loan them to others.

You cannot convince people that Joss Whedon shows are worth watching by logic. Neither Buffy, Angel, or Firefly. People will go 'That sounds corny'.

All you can do is sit them down in front of the things, and let them watch.

Re:Err...

[Sheepdot]

Ditto on the character twists. Firefly is the only space series I know of where the crew could mutiny in nearly any episode and it would totally fit in with the plot.

And not to ruin the plot, but one of the characters makes a huge mistake, gets caught, and the issue only partially gets resolved at the end of the season. There is a specific episode where respect is gained, but you're always left to wonder when the whole situation is going to break down.

There's also a crew member whose presence with them is completely questionable and, to me anyway, is almost certainly spying on them for their "enemies".

Re:Err...

[AVIDJockey]

For what it's worth, I don't think the trailers do any justice to the Firefly universe (In fact, I'd say that I absolutely hate how dumbed down they are).

There's was a LOT more subtlety in the series that absolutely doesn't/can't come across in a 1-2 minute piece.

Re:Err...

[n54]

The replies I got made me get off my ass and actually find the series and watch it, and it was very different from both what I thought it might be as well as what I did think it wouldn't be (if that makes any kind of sense). You're right that it's nothing like those I compared it too (including any typical Hollywood production).

It was enjoyable and I'm looking forward to the movie (and hopefully a future continuation of the series after that). I'm no super-fan but it's a lot better than most stuff.

Thanks for the reply/kick in the ass :)

Re:Err...

[n54]

You're right and I agree after getting to watch the series.

Thank you to you and the other repliers who made me check it out for myself :)

Re:what am i missing?

[jspectre]

well thanks for the info about them being out of order. i never knew that. ya gotta wonder why networks get mad when shows "flop" when they air things out of order, switch days and times at random, show 4 episodes and drop it, etc. thank gawd for cable tv, direct to dvd, peer networks, etc.

iFilm Link

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's the link to the clip in question at ifilm (in all it's ad-laden glory) since the site mentioned in the summary seems to be /.'d already.

http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2677821

You'd think Universal could afford some decent servers to host this on.

Re:iFilm Link

[BeANeR_UK]

I saw the world premier in Edinburgh on Monday 22nd and I can tell ya that those clips posted on iFilm ain't in the finished film. As a side note to earlier posts, I wasn't much of a Buffy / Angel fan to be honest, but I have to say I loved the original Firefly and Serenity is pretty dam good ! (Just don't go expecting a Star Wars / Star Trek film,.. cos it ain't one). You can watch the Serenity movie without having seen the Firefly series, but if you have, you'll get some of the nice in-gags along the way. oh, yea,.. SPOLIER ALERT,.... They kill a main character suddenly in it, just cos they can,... how un-typically Hollywood. Nice & Shiny !

Surprisingly good show!

[Sidane]

I picked up the Firefly series on DVD last week after reading various good things about it and seeing the Serenity trailers. I am working my way through it and am loving it. My expectations were very high and I'm usually very critical and switch off mediocre quality shows very quickly, especially sci-fi. So much to my surprise Firefly actually lives up to the hype. Shame they cancelled it. I'd recommend any sci-fi fans out there to give it a chance.

Re:Surprisingly good show!

[Winterblink]

It is definitely a shame, yes. I'd love it if Serenity did so well that the show was picked up again (albeit by someone else other than FOX). Maybe if Sci-Fi nabbed the rights they could give it the run it deserves.

Recently got back into it

[Winterblink]

You know, I watched some episodes on the air when it first came out, and really didn't enjoy it much. Space western? I was expecting something more along the lines of Cowboy Bebop, and that it wasn't. So I didn't mourn its passing.

But recently, on a whim, I decided to nab the DVD set. It's interesting because now after watching all the episodes out, in the proper order they were meant to be, I actually really enjoy the show immensely. The characters are all well done, the acting's great, the writing is subtle and excellent, it's just generally a very well thought out series on the same level as shows like Battlestar Galactica.

So for those who might be wondering what all the hype's about, go check out the DVD set. It's not that expensive, but might be a bit tricky to find. You won't be disappointed, and it will get you set for Serenity, which looks amazing.

Re:Recently got back into it

[AJWM]

it's just generally a very well thought out series on the same level as shows like Battlestar Galactica.

Three weeks ago I would have called you a raving loony. Then I got the DVDs of the Battlestar Galactica remake (both the miniseries and the UK version of the TV series).

On the off chance anyone else out there is confused, parent is not referring to the original 1970s Battlestar Galactica. (AKA Cattlecar Galaxative, aka whale dreck.)

At least, I hope not.

Non spoiler note about the preview screening.

[doublem]

Video tombstones become par for the course at some point in Josh's vision of the future.

It was kinda weird seeing [SPOILER DELETED]'s moving mug looking out from a stone slab after seeing the character's [SPOILER DELETED] death at the hands of [SPOILER DELETED].

Kudos to Mr. Doyle

[Anonymous Coward]

Firefly + Serenity + LEGO = glee.

Dude, you made my day, and right before a 2 hour long meeting I'm not looking forward to.

Can't wait to see an attempt at a scale model to fit the crew (nicely done as well, I might add).

-- A fellow tramp freighter fan

I post anonymously so you don't have to.

Re:what am i missing?

[theStorminMormon]

Just wanted to add my opinion. I saw part of a couple of episodes on TV and was like, "Eh, another sci fi show. Could be cool." Then along came Netflix and I started watching the shows in order. THEN I got it. Now I own the DVD series and I just have to say that unless you see the show in order you miss all of the macro-plots, which are essential to really appreciating the show. If you haven't watched them yet... go watch them. In order. You'll be hooked after the pilot, and the series builds from there.

They're marketing to a false stereotype

[doublem]

These guys know their market

I don't know about that. This may just be in the Boson area, but most the people I saw at the preview screening are part of the Poly Boston crowd. I have a suspicion that the only virgins in the audience were under the age of 18.

Hell, most the Buffy / Angel fans I know who are actual virgins are fan girls, saving themselves for a romantic ideal that only ever existed on TV and in legends of King Arthur's court. Firefly seems to have attracted a far more sexually active crowd.

Re:They're marketing to a false stereotype

[sacherjj]

I'll be in my bunk.

Re:They're marketing to a false stereotype

[doublem]

How come no catch phrases as prevalent at that one came out of Buffy?

Star Trek: "Beam me up Scotty"
Star Wars: "Use the Force Luke"
Firefly: "I'll be in my bunk" (Wanking implied)

I think Josh should try to get a different catch phrase permanently attached to his work...

Re:They're marketing to a false stereotype

[drsquare]

I think it's more likely because Buffy/Angel 'fan girls' are more often than not morbidly obese.

Re:They're marketing to a false stereotype

[sacherjj]

No clue. Never watched Buffy or Angel.

Re:They're marketing to a false stereotype

[doublem]

Apparently the Buffy fans out where you are are very different form the ones I know. Of the two I was thinking of when I wrote the quote, one is 140 soaking wet, and the other is closer to 120.

The morbidly obese women I know never seem to have a problem getting a boyfriend / girlfriend. I find it ironic that a morbidly obese woman is more likely to be comfortable with her figure than an allegedly "thin" woman. That personal comfort becomes confidence, which makes love making a far more pleasurable experience.

Re:They're marketing to a false stereotype

[Epistax]

I saw 40 year old virgin with my girly yesterday (wait am I kicked out of slashdot?). Anyway I saw the trailer, however I'm in the greater Boston area (err, Hudson, about 40 minutes west of Boston).

Re:They're marketing to a false stereotype

[doublem]

I wasn't trying to imply that no one who saw "40 year old virgin" would be interested in the Firefly movie. I was trying to make a point about the "People into sci-fi never get any action" stereotype the grandparent post was referencing.

By the way, what did you think of the flick? If it;s any good, I might recommend it to one of the 30 year old virgins I know.

Re:They're marketing to a false stereotype

[DavidTC]

'X much?' Aka, "Pathetic Much?" or "Overidentify much?"

'A happy', meaning 'a good feeling'.

'dusting' vampires. (Admittedly not incredibly use for for real life, but Buffy's where it came from.)

'pointy', the opposite of 'pointless'.

'What's the up?'

Re:They're marketing to a false stereotype

[doublem]

Most of those are just valley girl speak, and none of them are ones I've heard with the frequency of "I'll be in my bunk," which seems to be gunning for the new "All your base are belong to us" title.

Actually, I can't remember ever hearing any of the other phrases outside of a Buffy episode or a valley girl impression.

Depressing in a way.

Re:They're marketing to a false stereotype

[Epistax]

I was surprised, I really did like it. It's kind of odd that it is raunchy but also has a feel-good attitude. I thought the humor was going to be too low-ball but it's just about right. Every joke worked on me.

I feel anything I say about what I liked or dislike in the movie won't really help. What would help is this: I don't like dumb & dumber(er) or the ace venturas. I like anchorman (especially brick) and kevin smith movies. I like Jim Carrey's pseudo comedies such as bruce almighty and truman show.
I think that gives a better indication of if your friend will like the movie.

Anyway if any of your friends are ashamed of being older virgins, this should make them feel better. It's not at all preachy. If any of them are actively trying to not be virgins, this'll motivate the hell out of them. Best of luck.

Re:They're marketing to a false stereotype

[Scrameustache]

How come no catch phrases as prevalent at that one came out of Buffy?

"Five for five!"

"Bored now."

Hmmm... I'm focusing on the psycho chicks with loose morals aren't I? Ah well.

Re:They're marketing to a false stereotype

[DavidTC]

A lot of valley girl speak is Buffy speak.

But you want a quote? How about: "To read makes our speaking English good." or "Eww! Why is it that every conversation you people have has the word "corpse" in it?"

The only one I use regularly is: "Okay, at this point, you're abusing sarcasm."

But there are funs of great quotes from Buffy. Most of them make very little sense to use in real life: "Why go to all the trouble to dig up three girls only to chop them up and throw them away? It doesn't make any sense. Especially from a time management standpoint." or "If the apocalypse comes, beep me."

Re:They're marketing to a false stereotype

[EddieBurkett]

Way to prove the original poster's point by screwing up "Five by five".

Re:They're marketing to a false stereotype

[Scrameustache]

screwing up "Five by five".

DOH!

Question

[WormholeFiend]

Do I need to watch the Firefly episodes before I go see Serenity?

Re:Question

[Anonymous Coward]

No, but after you've seen the movie you'll want to see the series. All of the back-story you need is told and expanded on in the first 15 minutes.

My wife and i were lucky enough to be at the premier in Edinburgh two nights ago and we, plus the other 500 firefly fans, were totally blown away. You're all going to love it!

Re:Question

[Anonymous Coward]

I've seen the pre-showing.

No, it's not absolutely necessary - but it helps.

The movie does a decent job of covering the back story, but it can't give you the full sense of the character interactions and the 'in-jokes'.

In other words, you can understand the movie without seeing the shows, but it will be a lot more fun if you do.

Re:Word of mouth is not viral marketing

[SimilarityEngine]

Real viruses spread under their own steam, by moving between vulnerable people. Viral marketing spreads awareness of a product by "seeding" carefully chosen forums/blogs with the info, and letting readers spread the hype. Although some readers are quite able to exercise free will and keep quiet (analogous to people with high resistance to a virus), sufficiently many do not and act as vectors for the info. The viral analogy isn't perfect, but then the analogy between "memes" and "genes" is about as good...

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Sorry to be offtopic...

[ArmenTanzarian]

But I'm interested in the obsession with Firefly, but don't feel like plunking down money for the DVD's unless I know I'm buying something good (and my patience for torrents are roughly three hours).

So here's my question, are there Firefly fans out there who didn't watch Buffy or Angel, etc.? Because I really really didn't like those shows and if such an intersection of Buffy non-fans and Firefly fans exists, I'd like to hear from their opinions on Firefly.

If you could wait until I get a response or two before modding me offtopic, I'd appreciate it.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[kevinroyalty]

Didn't care for Buffy or Angel, but Firefly did catch my attention. I watched the episodes when they aired (thanks TiVo!), but really enjoyed it more when the DVD set came out (borrowed from a friend), and I was able to watch them, IN THE PROPER ORDER, so the story made more sense. Imaging watching the new Battlestar Glactica episodes out of order - wouldn't be as good would it? I did get to see one of the advanced screenings of Serenity, and, even without the final music, IT ROCKED. Best movie I've seen in a long time. Kevin

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[sacherjj]

I've offered to buy back the DVD set from any friend who bought it and didn't love it. I haven't had to shell out any cash yet. In fact, some people thanks me for urging them to buy it. You could also rent it.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[RadioTV]

I didn't watch Buffy or Angel, and I didn't watch Firefly until my brother loaned me the DVDs. It is a very good show that failed because Fox wouldn't give it a consistent time slot or let the creator have final say on production.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[Heisenbug]

I must admit I've seen most of Buffy and liked it, but Firefly is in a whole other class as far as I'm concerned. My roommate, 20ish geekish sort of guy, doesn't like Buffy, and after he saw the first episode of Firefly he watched the rest of the episodes in one (10 hour?) marathon.

There's always people on these threads who weren't into it, so obviously YMMV. I'm betting if you're into sci-fi at all it's well worth the $40, though.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[KevetS]

There are a BUNCH of FF fans who are not part of the Buffy/Angel 'verse. I, for one, never saw one episode of either of them - thinking it was just another WB show. A friend of mine recieved the Firefly DVD set as a christmas gift, and back in July '04 we finally got to watching it after it had set around for months. I think we watched about 4 episodes back-to-back that night... of course we are all hooked now. Can't wait for this thing to come out. I saw the trailer on the big screen this past Saturday during the 40 Year Old Virgin (which was hilarious... watch it!) and I thought it looked quite shiny even though I've seen it numerous times on my laptop screen. Bottom line - liking Firefly != liking Buffy, so if that makes you feel any better, go netflix the DVD set already!

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[bitweever]

Ditto, couldn't stand Buffy or Angel, despite having a girlfriend that was 'into' it. I could appreciate the humor on the few episodes I saw, but never really 'got' it.

Firefly is something completely different. I was shown the pilot by a friend, and believe it or not, really wasn't interested in it even then. But, over a period between programming contracts, I borrowed the set, sat down, and watched "Train Job". It was better; good characters, fast action, and it all just 'clicked'. By the time I got through "Bushwhacked" and "Shindig", I was hooked.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[taffeylewis]

I watched Firefly on the Sci-fi channel in the UK last year. Didn't like Buffy or Angel. A bit girly for me and I prefer sci-fi to horror any day.

I liked Firefly because the characterization was excellent (from an attractive Tom boy ships engineer who goes all 'funny' around men to a psycho arms specialist who acts like a one man marine squad and gives his weapons names).

There was also a nice touch of humour in the episodes. This ranged from quite black to downright silly, but always funny.

As well as flash backs to the civil war where the main crew met up.

Hope this helps you decide.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[Halthar]

Personally, I was never a fan of either Buffy or Angel, in fact I never understood the attraction to either show. I did enjoy Dark Angel(First Season) though, and one of the unaired episodes of Firefly has a scene that seems familiar, for some reason. I think anyone who watches this series and the first season of Dark Angel will know the episodes I am talking about.

That having been said, Firefly is actually a VERY good show. I don't have cable since I watch very little TV, generally. As a result I never saw a single episode of the series while it was on. I think in a way I was blessed, because had I seen the episodes out of order I never would have really been able to appreciate the show.

Actually, even if the show was horrible, in my opinion it would be worth it just to see Inara in a tight dress.

Fortunately, the show IS worth the viewing time. The character devel. is very well done, and I can't help but find myself actually being happy for the crew when things go well, and getting angry when things go poorly. As a result, I am actually somewhat angry about the last few episodes of the DVD. They are very well done, the stories are good, they weave into the fabric well, but there are some things I wish had come to some kind of resolution. For the same reasons I both enjoyed and at the same time hated the first season of Dark Angel.

One of the things that makes the DVDs wonderful, and a curse, is that by the time you get to the last few episodes, you don't want the series to end, yet you know it does. You want some of the conflicts and mysteries solved, but they never are. The only problem I found was the various unresolved issues. If you can deal with that, then it's definitely worth either renting or purchasing the DVDs.

One of the reasons the show works is because the cast of the show was actually really into making it. They cared about the artistic side of what they were doing, and seem to have really put everything they could into making the show. Not just the cast, but everyone involved. There is an interesting portion of the "Making Of" extra on the DVD that really explains their mindset well. It's the classic "Labor of Love" story, with even the person doing the musical score involved.

The most recent show I would compare it to is the new BSG series. The shows are completley different, but the same sense of dramatic tension is there, and equally well done, in my opinion. The character development is about equally well done on both shows. Some of the CG between the two shows is quite similar as well. Basically, if you have watched and like the new Battlestar, and watched and liked the first season of Dark Angel, then I personally think that you would really like Firefly.

With regard to torrenting the show. I admittedly torrented the DVD rips of the first 3 episodes. I watched them, and the next day purchased a copy of the DVD set. Having watched all of the episodes, it was definitely worth my money and my time. I believe that had they allowed the series to run as it was intended and in a good time slot it would currently still be airing. Admittedly, having watched the show, I am somewhat biased.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[ArmenTanzarian]

Thanks for the overwhelming response everyone, guess I should check it out!

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[socrates32]

I have never enjoyed Buffy or Angel. Though, to be fair, I've only seen (maybe) two episodes of each.

Firefly, on the other hand, is perhaps the best all-around live-action sci-fi I've ever seen. Think a cross between original Trek and Blade Runner, with some Seven Samurai and A Fist Full of Dollars thrown into the mix. In my opinion, one of it's stronger qualities is a lack of alien-of-the-week syndrome, which usually simply serve as convenient plot devices, rather than characters. It is very well written with both humour and edge. It even has realistic (and caustic) swearing, albeit in Chinese.

Definitely worth the cost of the DVD set.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[DavidTC]

I am a Buffy fan, but read my post above.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[Sidane]

I have no interest in Buffy or Angel, not my cup of tea at all.

Firefly is a different kettle of fish, however, very different.

It's actually the brilliantly executed humour of Firefly that I love most. The show doesn't take itself too seriously and I don't think a non-comedy show has made me genuinely laughed out loud so often.

The characters are very flawed, very human and just downright likeable. If I had to describe it in a sentence it would be "Han Solo the TV Series". And that says it all in my book. They've even got the striped trousers!

Ok the sci-fi/western blend is a very strange one and I wasn't too enamoured with it at first, but it grows on you.

If you like sci-fi, give Firefly a chance and buy the DVD set. If you don't like it, eBay it!

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[CharAznable]

I don't really care for Buffy or Angel, but Firefly is one of the very best sci-fi shows ever. Imagine a show where the protagonist is Han Solo, and he offs Greedo by shooting first IN EVERY EPISODE!!!

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[wuie]

My two roommates and I are all Firefly fanatics, and this is how the "Buffy Fandom" breaks down between us:

- One likes Buffy, but has only watched a couple seasons
- One has watched Buffy (forced to by his fiancee) and doesn't care for it
- One vehemently hates Buffy and refuses to have anything to do with the show

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[semper]

Sci-Fi channel is airing the episodes on Friday nights at 7pm. It's another option besides buying the dvds.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[macemoneta]

I didn't like Buffy or Angel, but loved Firefly. It reminded me in a lot of ways of the feeling I got from reading Heinlein's novels when I was younger, that never translated to the big (or little) screen.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[cjmilne]

This is an interesting question that's getting a range of responses. My take on it is fairly straightforward, the comparisons to Buffy/Angel are appropriate only in that they have the same creator, otherwise they would probably not be compared at all.

Perhaps a more interesting question is whether Firefly would have become more similar to Buffy/Angel had it made it through several seasons ? Buffy was an entertaining show but to a certain extent it also became quite serialized and impenetrable as it aged. Firefly's first season is much more accessible and required much less subtext per episode for enjoyment, as would be expected for the first season. I suspect however that had it survived through multiple seasons it too would have succumbed to the nested, opaque plotlines that plagued Buffy. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, long-time viewers are rewarded for their persistence, but few shows outside the Simpsons have managed the balance between rewarding the-Comic-Book-Guy-viewer and the brand-new-viewer and I suspect that based on Joss Whedon's history, Firefly's initial broad appeal would have quickly been lost.

Chris

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[chickenmonger]

You put forth a valid question. I have watched several episodes of both Buffy and Angel, and I believe Joss Whedon and Firefly suffered from the same fate as Matt Groening and Futurama.

Not that Buffy, Angel, or the Simpsons for that matter are horrible shows, but you can really believe that the creators' best work lies in these all-too-short-lived series.

I got the Firefly DVD set as a gift, and I've enjoyed every minute of it. Buffy and Angel...well, I've put forth good-faith effort, but I just can't seem to get into those.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[kamileon]

I had never seen Buffy or Angel before watching Firefly. To be quite honest, the fact that it came from the creator of Buffy really turned me off on it, because I found Buffy fans to be utterly insufferable, and what they were telling me about Buffy really wasn't making me want to watch it. It took chromatic (who's pretty picky about his entertainment) telling me that it was amazing for me to even pick up the first disk, and then I was utterly hooked. Really.

I'm not actually sure I'd even compare it to Buffy. Having finally broken down and watched a few disks, Buffy characters are really one dimensional, and the universe of Buffy is pretty simplistic. Firefly is not. I'd compare Firefly more to some of the really good predictive Sci-Fi. Arthur C. Clarke, perhaps, or Heinlein. The mish-mosh of cultures and technologies is what I would consider to be realistic (because, let's face it, even in the future, not everyone's going to have all the cool toys), and the western aspects are given a believable rationale.

However, my suggestion to you, if you're still unsure, is that you just download the pilot and watch it. It's about two hours. It's plenty to get you hooked if you are going to like it, and if not, you haven't wasted your money.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[whovian]

At the time I really liked the early and middle seasons of Buffy, but now I would probably have a hard time going back, particularly having to witness the love/angst. (BTW, props to Ms. Gellar as an outstanding actress across her career.) Angel was overall a solid series. I think both series have had their time.

I've managed to see Firefly series after it aired the first time, and to me it's definitely a new kind of sci-fi. Since it's not forced, it plays well to patient viewers. We need more Firefly. I'll be in line for the movie.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[fatcatman]

I didn't watch Buffy or Angel at all, but the whole idea of Buffy seemed, well, stupid to me. So I passed.

But I love Firefly. Love it. Best. Sci-Fi. Ever. Better than Trek, in my opinion.

Go get the DVDs, watch 'em back to back. I haven't met a single person who hasn't enjoyed them.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[qwertyatwork]

Didnt like buffy, or angel. Firefly was ok. I wouldnt say great. I have no idea why its liked so much. I am going to see the movie on opening night though. Looks like it rocked. BTW, I watched it through netflix.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[|/rad|/oder]

I hate Buffy AND Angel. I love BSG, and I've made many friends watch Firefly, and they totally get turned on to it. It really is on the same level as BSG (which I also like a lot), easily as sophisticated in its character development. It has a rich universe built up around it, with a lot of history that comes out over its short run, so it really kickstarts your imagination. The acting is fantastic, I've never seen such humor and believability in scifi characters.

It is teh rawk.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[TheAmazingRando]

I personally cannot stand Buffy, and have no interest in Angel. I haven't seen more than 1 or 2 total episodes between the two series. Firefly, however, is an excellent show. I wasn't even aware of the connection until I watched the DVDs, and one of the bonus materials mentioned it. I thought, well now thats interesting, and went to try at Buffy again, but it still wasn't interesting to me. I think everyone should check it out, and everyone that I've loaned my DVDs to has been hooked. Hope that helps.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[duplo]

In answering your question - I can't stand buffy or angel. In fact when I try and tell people to watch FireFly I usually avoid the point of saying it was created by Joss Whedon because straight away it creates a stereotype of what the show is about. FireFly is a great series in its own respect and I am very angry that it was cut short.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[jtriska]

I had watched a couple of episodes of Buffy, and none of Angel before seeing Firefly. I didn't much care for Buffy at the time.

Firefly is radically different. I enjoyed it immensely.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[A_Non_Moose]

So here's my question, are there Firefly fans out there who didn't watch Buffy or Angel, etc.? Because I really really didn't like those shows and if such an intersection of Buffy non-fans and Firefly fans exists, I'd like to hear from their opinions on Firefly.

Don't see any responses yet, so here goes:

Never watched Buffy (ok, saw the 'original' movie) or Angel, but I did see here on /. a comment that it was a Cowboy Bebop rip-off.

Well, some similarities, but Firefly blows it out of the water, IMO. It is at, and above some of the new BSG series quality.

For instance: BSG is one of the few action/dramas that has made me blurt out various exclamations/explicatives in suprise.

Same with Firefly, heck even the 2 "meh" episodes were excellent (IMO).

The difference, if you have watched any of the BSG, CBB is this (I think):
BeBop was story/plot driven, and as most anime has one or two characters that are a waste of time and/or annoying as hell. (liked the datadog, hated the hacker he/she/it?) And in a lot of instances, the characters were just kind of "there", and sometimes you can only take so much O_O and -_- as the maximum expressive range.

Battle Star Galactica, IMO, seems to be a blend of character/plot/story driven, and so far has maintained a level of quality that is superb.
Heck, even some of the "meh" characters have gotten better definition and acting over time.

Firefly, OTOH, (from the DVD sequence, i.e. properly not the FOXed-up sequence) took several (unknown to me) actors and established them from the get-go. Without sounding like I'm fawning over the series, I can say that all did an excellent job as their respective characters, bar none. (Edward James Almos quality across the board).
Even the two "meh" episodes' plots were acted so well, that it carried the episodes in such a way it was damn good.

Think about it: if something that normally makes you shrug is done so well (acting, directing, writing) it then makes you very interested in seeing it, isn't that kind of amazing?

Here is the kicker: I stayed up until 6am the first sitting *and* thought it kicked ass, even tho I forgot to watch the last two episodes!
(last three if you count the fact I was so tired I only recalled about 2 minutes of the 3rd ep. D'oh and then *GLEEE*)

URL: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php ?t=329175

Start there, to see the order, then go to http://versaphile.coms/ /download directory and click the firefly link.

According to a few message boards these are sanctioned by Joss, to garner interest. (IIRC, YMMV)

But, what do I know, I bought the DVD's after having a friend loan me his, saying "If you don't
buy your own set, I'll be damned suprised".

Dude was right.

And I've watched mine 3 times since then.

Hopefully, ArmenTanzarian, that answered your question. Or read straight dope's message board as I did after watching so many times and finding
out some of the things I missed (like why the character "River" cut "Jayne").

Oh, and "Shiney" to all the current fans.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[DahGhostfacedFiddlah]

I've seen all of them, but wanted to comment on a phenomenon I think I see happening. I watched Buffy and Angel on TV, every week. Looking back now, I'm nowhere near as interested as I once was, and don't necessarily see the attraction.

The thing is, Buffy started in what - 1995? I believe there may be a progression towards more mature audiences even as the characters (and Joss) evolved in those shows. Firefly is head and shoulders above Buffy or Angel in my book, and I think that represents a maturation of Joss' skills.

Basically what I'm saying is - if you've seen Buffy or Angel recently and not seen the attraction, don't worry - you're seeing a different Joss than is making Serenity.

Re:Sorry to be offtopic...

[mink]

My wife and I are not into Angel/Buffy.

Re:Amazingly Ineffective

[milktoastman]

I'm stayin' away from you! You've got...the virus!!!

I really have to say...

[Liotius]

Firefly has been one of the best television series I have had the pleasure of viewing, and with the movie finally due out, I am just trying to avoid spoilers and the like.
Heck, when I saw the preview at 40 yr old virgin I almost left thinking that was what I was there for! (To tell the truth it was)

Viral Marketing Doesn't Work!

[TheRaven64]

Tell everyone you know!

(With apologies to NTK).

Joss in the foreground

[jpack]

I'm fairly sure that's Joss himself in the foreground in both of those videos.. Pretty admirable job of choking and collapsing in the second clip too, it was actually kinda scary.

Clueless about this show

[maynard]

OK. So I saw one episode of Firefly when it was out a few years ago and hated it. Didn't bother with it again. Then it was canceled. But so many friends have recommended the show that when SciFi began rebroadcasting I PVR'd the episodes in order and began watching. Decided I liked it. So I went to Amazon and checked out the DVD. It's in the Amazon top 10 fer Christ Sakes! Bought it. Delivery was slow because they're back ordered! I think Fox really screwed up here... they threw away a goldmine. --M

Re:Clueless about this show

[Scrameustache]

I saw one episode of Firefly when it was out a few years ago and hated it.

Lemme guess, "The Train Job"?
Good thing someone convinced you to get past it later on : )

Re:Clueless about this show

[maynard]

I don't remember, honestly. All I remember is a general dissatisfaction and anoyance from the experience. It may have been an episode that has yet to air on SciFi. I just got the DVD yesterday and have only re-seen the first episode so far. Looking forward to watching it all at my leisure, rather than waiting for SciFi to broadcast. And, of course, the DVD looks a hell of a lot better! :) --M

Re:Huh?

[bitweever]

Go here and buy the DVDs. You won't regret it.

Re:what am i missing?

[Tom Courtenay]

I'm in the midst of watching the series on DVD right now (two episodes left).

As a huge Whedon fan, I awaited the show's debut with baited breath and was sorely disappointed. I gave up after two episodes and Joss' stock immediately plummeted with me. My boss lent the set last week and after sitting through a few mediocre episodes I really started to enjoy it. The characters take several episodes to take hold but once they do, they are far more complex than those in an average drama/scifi.

MOD PARENT UP (invent a new level if you have to)

[suitepotato]

If there's a truer thing said on Slashdot, it would not be so important as this though it has been said before in different ways.

If Linus wanted to sell paper cups with the Linux name on them, there'd be a stampede to get the news posted. If a new geek cult game releases, there's a post. Slashdot readers submit posts knowing the editors cannot resist publishing them because everyone knows the other readers will comment on them by the hundreds. Much of the news is stuff that DOESN'T matter. WE ARE the viral marketing and we do it DESPITE our own cynicsm. Oy.

Maybe we should get it over with and charge people to talk about their product and get it exposed to the tech brigades instead of giving them free advertising here. I won't even say the name of this movie franchise I'm so sick of hearing about it never mind sick of the incessant ways it gets squirreled into being mentioned.

Next big Slashdot running gag: inserting catch words and product names that are already known to be over-hyped.

Patiently Waiting

[J3M]

This will be one of the only movies in years that I plan on seeing opening weekend. What makes it even better is that my girlfriend is also patiently waiting. She is not a scifi fan at all. I talked her into watching FireFly with me. She loved it. So much so that she would get home from work and one of the first things she'd ask is "Are we watching disc 3 of FireFly tonight?".

Since then I've loaned the discs to her Dad and her Brother who have both loved the series as well. I've probably helped sell at least 8 movie tickets to people who didn't even know about FireFly or the upcoming movie.

Let me 'splain

[jfengel]

Here's the deal: somebody released a short film onto the P2P networks. It begins with the overtext "R. Tam/Session 416/Second Excerpt" and consists mostly of a man viewed from the back choking to death. After he croaks, River appears, looks directly into the camera, and says "I can see you," (as if to an experimenter behind a one-way mirror). It's in black and white, and the implication is that it's archival footage of one of River's training sessions, wherever she was.

"Viral Marketing" in this case means that it's not explicitly an ad for the movie. It's just released into the wild with the hopes that a lot of people will show it to each other going "What is this? Is it a clip from the movie, or what?"

The gist of "viral marketing" is to use nontraditional advertising (and it's really advertising rather than marketing), usually with something intriguing so that people will talk about the advertisement to each other. You don't spend money getting TV time for your ad or print a lot of materials; you let the people do it. Word of mouth has always been the best advertising, and the best way to get word-of-mouth is to catch people's imaginations. Like this video, which would be mysterious if it weren't obvious to everybody who's already in your target market.

When it works it's actually kind of interesting, but it tends to excite ignorant advertising executives who figure it's the Next Big Thing and promptly turn it into a formula. It works best when the thing you're advertising is interesting in and of itself.

So Serenity would seem to be a good target, but it's not. It only works when people don't immediately see through it. The film has nine kinds of positive buzz among the fans, and the only thing you're going to get is fanboys showing it to each other (like here on Slashdot). But for marketing all buzz is good buzz. The intent is that the clip is kind of mysterious, but there's no mystery, really, since the fanboys all know who R. Tam is already.

Is it a clip from the film? No, it doesn't appear to be. It appears to have been constructed for precisely this purpose: getting buzz.

You want "viral marketing", make a fake bootleg of a clip (from one of the preview screenings) and release that. THAT will get people talking. This will disappear in two days.

Re:Let me 'splain

[CProgrammer98]

Thanks for taking the time to write that. Never heard of "R-tam" "Firefly" "River" "Serenety" etc. Guess these are characters in a tv show? If I could be bothered, I'd read up about it but I'm s'posed to be errm... working and shit lol.

Back to my dreary design doc I have to write by the end of the week. Sigh.

Re:Let me 'splain

[jfengel]

Oh, maybe you're the perfect target for this, then. You've just heard about it. I guess it works. I'd assumed everybody on Slashdot had at least heard about it by now.

Firefly was a TV show by the same guy who did Buffy the Vampire Slayer. It didn't last very long (4 episodes) before being cancelled, but it was extremely popular among the geek crowd (who claimed Fox never gave it a chance.) It was wildly popular on DVD, so they're making a movie called Serenity (the name of the spaceship).

The gist: it's a western set in space. It's even more obvious about it's western roots than, say, Star Trek (which was explicitly called "Wagon Train to the Stars"). The leads are veterans from a Confederacy-style rebeliion; the others in the ship are all outlaws of one kind or another (but good-guy outlaws, like Billy the Kid in some westerns). The costumes, props, sets, etc. look like a cross between Old West and sci-fi. Some people find that weird and disturbing. Others (like me) find it neat and well written.

River Tam is the biggest mystery: she acts autistic, but her brother rescued her from some sort of government lab for hyper-gifted children, and they want her back. The strong implication is that she's been trained as a psychic and assassin.

Now you know. The series was brought back from the dead as a movie because the fans think its brilliant. The characters are fun, the writing sharp, the look of the show visually appealing. Or maybe it's just stupid, as some Slashdotters also think. In a month you can go see the film. Assuming you've finished your design doc.

Re:Let me 'splain

[CProgrammer98]

Cool, don't think it made it on this side of the pond (UK) I'll see if I can torrent it...

Re:Let me 'splain

[CProgrammer98]

Hmm torrent spy lists 12 episodes... is that for real?

Re:Let me 'splain

[jfengel]

Actually, there were 14, including the pilot. Only four were actually shown before it was cancelled.

Not, in my opinion, the best four, but they were pretty good, especially the pilot. In fact the pilot wasn't shown first, for which a lot of fans blame the show's early demise: without the pilot you miss some backstory.

I do know a bunch of people who stopped watching after the first episode, but in each case I think they just didn't like the mix of Western and sci-fi themes. I think if they'd have stuck with it they'd have gotten over that and gotten into the writing and great performances, but who knows?

Re:Let me 'splain

[Scrameustache]

Cool, don't think it made it on this side of the pond (UK)

I'm pretty sure I remember being jealous that the UK run was complete and in order, as opposed to incomplete, out of order, and at random shifting times in the original Fox run.

Googling... right: Summer 2003.

dude, chill...

[xenomouse]

Seriously...

I'd like buy you a Coke and chill with you a while.

Don't be a hater

[Scrameustache]

I won't even say the name of this movie franchise I'm so sick of hearing about it never mind sick of the incessant ways it gets squirreled into being mentioned.

.sig since xmas 2002: The day the last nail in the TV show's coffin was given it's final blow (when the last of the networks passed on it).

Not to mention loaning the DVDs to many people who had no idea what the hell I was babbling on about. Once they watched, they understood, approved, and started participating.

...and I didn't name anything, since I know you hate that with an everlasting burning fury.

Re:Don't be a hater

[Mad_Giggler]

Oh, THAT movie franchise. I thought he was talking about the one we grew up on. The one that was *ruined* by its creator due to the Quest for More Money. The one that has its own story icon. . .

Re:Don't be a hater

[B3ryllium]

"The Quest For More Money" is the name of Spaceballs 2. I don't know what you're talking about. ;-)

Re:Don't be a hater

[thinkninja]

I don't understand GP. The level of hype surrounding Serenity is no where near the level of...well, anything mainstream hollywood.

What sets it apart is that almost everything is generated from the bottom-up, from the fans and the geeks.

We love the it, the actors love it, and suitepotato hates it.

Pounds to pennies he's never seen an episode. Oy vey iz im.

Re:Don't be a hater

[Scrameustache]

I don't understand GP. The level of hype surrounding Serenity is no where near the level of...well, anything mainstream hollywood.

I think he hates it simply because people like it.

Some people are like that, they define their tastes by rejecting what others like. "If they like it," they say, "I must NOT like it! That will set me appart!". It's... well it's pretty fucking stupid, if you ask me, but they tend to see this as some kind of unique and clever position, and not as the sad and all to common reactionary stance it is.

Pounds to pennies he's never seen an episode.

I'm pretty sure he never has.
His sounds like a clear case of prejudice.

Re:The ambulance from the show was found...

[Robotech_Master]

The fellow subsequently went back and took many more, better photos--including himself (wearing a "Han Shot First" T-shirt) standing on the mockup or sitting in the cockpit. According to a subsequent LJ entry he has found out who the owner is, and gotten a price from the owner (which he says is reasonable considering, but doesn't want to reveal for fear of some private collector snatching it up). But he's not sure where to go from there.

Re:The ambulance from the show was found...

[devross]

Dag, I stand corrected. Strange that you'd find a TV show prop in a real aircraft salvage yard. Pretty damn cool though.

Real viruses are spread by a host...

[Out4Blood]

... same as "idea viruses"

Viral marketing uses the objects of the marketing effort (i.e., you & me as hosts) to propogate the message (virus). So viral marketers try to get people who have been infected by the marketing message: "See Serenity!" to tell others about it.

Which we're doing...

Re:What the fuck is serenity and firefly?

[homebrewmike]

I would suggest using a search engine. Perhaps google, that seems to be popular.

If you need help using a search engine, feel free to post for help. I'm sure someone will help.

Re:Word of mouth is not viral marketing

[KendyForTheState]

I think you are giving viruses too much credit. I am not a biologist (IANOB) but I understand that viruses spread mostly by people or animals exchanging bodily fluids, sometimes by kissing, sex, etc., and sometimes through a second party (vector?) like a mosquito, or drinking contaminated water. When viruses grow legs and wings and become intelligent and actively seek out hosts/victims, we will be in a LOT of trouble.

Viruses don't spread disease, people do!

River is HOW old?

[Bitmanhome]

The actress was a believable younger sister on the series, but she grew up way too fast. She's not old, but she's not the little girl she's trying to play.

Re:River is HOW old?

[Explo]

IMDB is your friend:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1132359/

So, she's about 24 now.

You might also like...

[mbius]

Battlestar Galactica. Also features a crazy space b*tch (for my money, you can never have too much of that--see 5th Element). The drama has a cinematic quality (like Lost), and the aforementioned leading lady is a Victoria's Secret model who's all kinds of hot.

I enjoyed Firefly, and look forward to the movie, but the River story is its only real hook. Every episode's smuggling job is a stage for each character to dance across, flatly. Entertaining, yes; high art, no. The hype I've heard includes "best on television," and that's a bit of a stretch IMO.

Trivia tidbit: Serenity takes its name from a character in episode 2 of the old Kung Fu series--the original East meets West story.

Re:You might also like...

[DahGhostfacedFiddlah]

I agree that the River story is the only real hook in the first 13 eps, but I'm in awe of what it could have been.

Because you just know that Mallory - starting as a small-time smuggler - would end up leading the second great rebellion. It's a classic rags to riches story, but I'm sure the complete storyline would blow just about any other show out of the water.

And as long as we're suggesting random shows here - Charlie Jade. Download it on a torrent, since it's not shown in the US yet, and you'd be lost without watching the eps in order.

YASR: Yet Another Serenity Review

[cutecub]

Note to self: STOP READING SERENITY REVIEWS!

I KNOW I'm just setting myself up for an ulcer:

http://www.screendaily.com/story.asp?storyid=23110 &r=true

Wow. That guy must get all the chicks.

[javaxman]

A detailed, light-up Lego model of a somewhat obscure sci-fi starship is just the tip of the iceberg with this guy.

When this your idea of a workshop, how do you keep the chicks off of you long enough to work on your lego models??

Of course, I only say that because I'm jealous...

Re:what am i missing?

[Mecha[drone]]

The first couple of Episodes (not including the Pilot) were a little sketchy. This isn't the fault of the Producer or Director, but the Studio... They were constantly giving them notes to "make the Captain more likable" and whatnot... They wrote a new Pilot "The Train Job" over a weekend, once Fox decided that they didn't want a two hour pilot. I think EVERY Sci-Fi show has a two hour pilot, but hey, thats Fox, and they were spending about $2 million an episode...

Like people have been saying, the show works much better on DVD... I wasn't a big fan until I saw it that way. I thought it was OK, but the stories and characters are growing and evolving too fast for it to be pre-empted, moved, rescheduled, etc...

Ultimately the show got cancelled because of bad demographics, not bad ratings... Almost all intelligent TV Shows get cancelled for this reason... Advertisers want a much dumber audience...

Audience

[Mecha[drone]]

OK, I love it, but I'm a 31 year old Male... Sci-Fi is right in my wheelhouse...

My Dad was visiting from Wyoming. He's 61. We watched the whole series in 3 nights... And he didn't fall asleep once (he's 61)...

I showed him the Pilot, and he said, is there more? Sure, kept asking, "One more?" he was like "Hell Yeah".

Its Funny, dramatic, scary, funny, and cool...

It seems not to be working...

[hummassa]

(the viral marketing) after all, they had to put it on /. so we could hear about it :-)

Re:Word of mouth is not viral marketing

[Locutus]

personally, if the "marketing" is done correctly, the customer is actually interested in the product and is not annoyed at recieving notices. Viral or otherwise. But, if overdone, THEN it can get annoying. The web is good this way in that like-minded people can gather virtually and discuss like-minded concepts. Unlike say AM/FM radio where there's such a mixed audience that we are stuck listening to ads for whatever Clearchannel can get paid to put on the air.

As far as the "viral" part goes, that will only work if, as you mentioned, "carefully chosen forums/blogs"( ie the products customer base ) are found. And IMO, that is not a bad thing. They won't get much "spread" or traction if they seed the Firefly info to...a genital herpes forum for instance. And it would be a waste of time to even think that those forum/blog members would be remotely interested.

LoB

Re:What the fuck is serenity and firefly?

[zenneth]

Yeah, I'm flamebait, not the guy who bitches about what's on the front page. Fucking dipshit.

Re:What the fuck is serenity and firefly?

[bradkittenbrink]

While I think it's unfair you were modded a troll just for expressing your opinion, I do disagree with you on just about every point.

First of all, Firefly was originally produced by Fox, regardless of what the SciFi channel calls it now. <rant>Don't help them get away with this kind of bullshit. SG-1 was originally produced by Showtime, you can't call it a "SciFi original" regardless of who's producing it now.</rant>

Secondly, I'll tell you exactly why people like Firefly: It's hilarious and the characters are awesome. And that's good enough for a lot of people (me included). No one's claiming the drama is Shakespeare or the acting is oscar-worthy, but I do think that the cast is well chosen for the quirks of their characters. I'm not going to try to convince you it's funny, or that you should like the characters, because you've obvoiusly seen it and disagree. Fine, I'm just pointing out that a lot of the things people see as Firefly's strengths are independant of the things you criticized.

Thirdly, if you want to kick artificial gravity out of sci-fi, you pretty much have to kick faster-than-light travel out of it too. If our current understanding of General Relativity is accurate, any technology for one could almost certainly be adapted to apply to the other.

Re:The ambulance from the show was found...

[AVIDJockey]

Dag, I stand corrected. Strange that you'd find a TV show prop in a real aircraft salvage yard. Pretty damn cool though.

Shouldn't that be "Da-shiong bao-jah-shr duh la-doo-tze! (Translation: Explosive diarrhea of an elephant) I stand corrected!" instead?

Wikipedia says otherwise

[pdmoderator]

Wikipedia article:

Viral marketing and viral advertising refer to marketing techniques that seek to exploit pre-existing social networks to produce exponential increases in brand awareness, through viral processes similar to the spread of an epidemic. It is word-of-mouth delivered and enhanced online; it harnesses the network effect of the Internet and can be very useful in reaching a large number of people rapidly.

Of course, Wikipedia is a viral reference.

And, BTW, real viruses can't spread themselves, as they have no legs, wings, flagellae, or other motive organs.

Re:The ambulance from the show was found...

[Flounder]

Considering that the prop looks to be a modified and painted fuselage from a Russian Mi-24 Hind helicopter, it's highly likely.

The yard this was found is about an hour drive from me, and I'm tempted to go pay homage to a honest to god Firefly prop.

Spoilers ... :/

[BigAl_nz]

It's a pity that this is going to be buried all the way down the comments, but since I'm actively trying to go into Serenity knowing *nothing* about the movie ..., it would be nice if Slashdot didn't post God Damn SPOILERS in the front page story.

Haven't the learn from the Lone Gunman incident ?

*sigh*

Re:The ambulance from the show was found...

[silentbozo]

Strange that you'd find a TV show prop in a real aircraft salvage yard.
 
Not really. I saw one of the mocked up rotorcraft from "The Sixth Day" sitting in a hangar at the aviation museum in Santa Monica a few years back (9/11 insurance rates forced the museum to move a year or so later, BTW.) They were done with it. They didn't want to pay the storage fees. They threw it away.

the fastest wiki edit ever?

[Wontsomebodypleaseth]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_marketing#Types _of_Viral_Messages wtf? how can this be added so quickly about the firefly marketing wtf?

LINK TO SESSION 416 SNIPPET

[mildness]

Here's the link to the film clip the story mentioned.

Cheers yo,

BillyBob

word-of-mouth disease

[gomel]

dude, you got a point here.

If it's viral, then from now on let's call it the word-of-mouth disease. We had something similar in the EU in 2001 and it left awful memories of burning carcasses. That should teach the marketing gnomes!

( unfortunately, this means starting a new meme, which itself would be a viral... , oy, recurrency. )

Apparently..

[Neoncow]

the next 20 people didn't notice that you were convinced enough. Just goes to show the sheer enthusiasm Firefly is attracting.

I too, took the BitTorrent route after the Serenity trailer hit Slashdot. After watching the series, I went out and bought the DVD set anyways. I've showed it to relative and friends, and so far everyone who has seen it is happy that I've shown it to them (some haven't watched it yet).

I don't watch much TV, but Firefly seems to have a little bit of everything. What I liked most is that it could make me laugh and I enjoyed the characters.. Not some of them, but *all* of them. Each one has their own personality and backstory. It's done so well that I can't tell you which is my favorite character.

Aaanyways. I'm just babbling here...

Ooh, and some of the antagonists are really well done too! You'll know who I'm talking about when you see it.

STOP!

[Neoncow]

Do not download it *yet*. Finish your work first. This is your final warning. ;)

Re:STOP!

[CProgrammer98]

lmao too funny dude.

I VNC'd to my home pc and kicked off a "network backup" of the whole 14 episodes (Thankyou Azureus!) which enables me to continue to work... tho there's something mesmorising about watching the azureus swarm map screen and the "parts" screen... is it just me that sits and stares and the progress bars??!!

Re:MOD PARENT UP (invent a new level if you have t

[Giddeon]

I'm not really clear on what the resistance is to this. The moviemakers are publishing original content to the web that does not appear in the movie. This content enhances and expands upon a popular science fiction universe. Even if the viewer had no intention of seeing the movie, these scenes expand on the Firefly series in a way that anyone who has watched the show can appreciate.

This is less like Linus selling paper cups, and more like Linus releasing a mini-distro. It is geeky, it is interesting, and it is free. I, for one, am quite glad that this news made it to Slashdot.

Commercials

[DahGhostfacedFiddlah]

Not only does DVD look better, but I simply can't watch a dramatic show on TV anymore with the commercials. How can you get into a story that's interrupted every 7 minutes?

I don't know that Fox *ever* stood a chance with that type of dynamic.

What spoilers?

[DahGhostfacedFiddlah]

River was incarcerated before the first episode aired - the first episode is her bloody escape.

And it's no secret she's got mental problems.

Re:All to quickly?

[cfuse]

Fox was going for a different target market than what the show was bringing in.

TV Exec 1: That Firefly show is way too good to be on our network.

TV Exec 2: It just doesn't appeal to our target demographic, what are we going to do?

TV Exec 3: Easy, we'll just cancel it. I've got a new show lined up already.

TV Exec 2: What's the concept.

TV Exec 3: Get this: 'Who's the boss redux', with Michael Jackson as the father and that kid who sings 'I want candy' as the child.

TV Exec 1: Awsome. Could we get Paris Hilton in there somewhere too.

TV Exec 3: She could be the ex-streetwalker turned nun who mentors the boy.

TV Exec 2: Goddamn we're on fire! Cocaine and hookers for everyone!

Re:Word of mouth is not viral marketing

[SimilarityEngine]

Sorry for replying so late. You are correct, of course. I was a bit rash in saying "viruses spread under their own steam". I guess I had in mind the fact that they spread without requiring the host's consent.

Re:What the fuck is serenity and firefly?

[OpperNerd]

Why the fuck can't people just write normal introductions. Fucking nerds. Go guck a goat.

Re:What the fuck is serenity and firefly?

[homebrewmike]

Why the fuck can't people just write normal introductions.
They are assuming a certain level of knowledge. Failing that, they are assuming a certain level of ability to fill in those gaps.

Fucking nerds. Go guck a goat
Can I have your's after you're done with it? See, and I didn't even have to look that up.

ship ahoy

[mbius]

Aye captain! Sheepshank the mainsails and run up the jolly roger!