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2.6.13 Linux Kernel Released
LynuxFre@k writes "Linux Torvalds announced the release of the 2.6.13 Linux kernel. He noted that there was a major change to the x86 PCI code, and that while all bugs from the change were believed to be found during the release candidate phase, it's possible that some devices may have problems. From this release on, it is intended that major changes only be merged into the kernel within two weeks after a major release. The rest of the time will be spent fixing bugs, with the goal of both increasing overall stability and decreasing the amount of time between major releases. Download the latest Linux kernel from a kernel.org mirror."
1. You rejuvenate and dance when you hear a windows flaw exposed, but you conveniently ignore the thousands of security flaws exposed in linux.
....
...etc.
2. You yell loudly TROLL! at any person's post or at any person you see posting facts that you do not want to hear about your oh so cool linux.
3. You know it's a classic case of penis envy, you don't have all the support, software and hardware available for linux and you have to let that anger out somewhere, but you don't have the brains to admit it.
4. You hate windows, hate Microsoft, but race to emulate windows, have programs to run office from within linux, and spend a $300 on a Windows emulator, only Windows fools.
5. You cannot admit that you don't have professional usage of Linux outside server markets.
6. You cannot admit that most of the joe user out there when told that there is linux will respond, what is that?
7. You cannot admit that there is no professional printing capabilities in linux.
8. You cannot admit that you are a masochist (otherwise why would someone spend hours playing with scripts,
and recompiling programs that are available for Windows?)
9. You cannot admit that there is no professional desktop publishing done on Linux.
10. You cannot admit that no one in their right mind would do professional video editing in Linux.
11. You cannot admit that linux sucks when it comes for gaming/home entertainment or education.
12. You have problems in understanding Windows, and you will blame your own incompetence on Microsoft.
13. You have problems in pointing a clicking, but have no problems in wading through cryptic scripts written by lunatics.
14. Nothing will get past that shit that fills your head, you will not admit to any facts.
15. You can't admit that naming of linux components, packages, and others are weird and fits profiles of troubled teenagers. gentoo, lgx, rpm
16. You feel angered because you were left out by microsoft's Media technologies, they support Mac, Sun sparc, but not linux.
17. You feel inferior deep inside but unable to admit it, you don't have a database as easy and powerful as Access.
18. You cannot tell that not a single office package outside Microsoft's is worth looking at or bothering with.
19. You don't know that your CD recorder software sucks.
20. You don't have DVD-RAM, DVD-R, DVD-RW support in your pathetic OS.
21. While the rest of the world moves on, you're stuck in a stone age technology that needs third party software to boot into GUI.
22. You act out of prejudice, you kill file domains and users of specific news readers while you ignore the bullshit that your fellow linux losers post.
23. You don't know commercial support in Linux is almost non existent.
24. You miss the fact that companies are leaving linux because of the chaos, and the cheap linux losers who are unwilling to pay and support hard work, Corel, gaming companies,...etc.
25. You are unaware that linux has no terminal services (there is a lame one that no one uses), and commercial support for it is not happening.
26. You are unaware that setting up servers on Windows takes couple of minutes while on linux, good luck playing with configuration scripts.
27. You cannot admit that support for USB on linux is laughable at best.
28. You think that Linux is better because slashdot told you so.
29. You spend countless hours flaming people because they post their opinions about your oh so cool linux and your attitude, instead of researching things for yourself and understanding fact in order not to look this stupid.
30. You think that anyone who uses linux has a clue.
31. You think that linux cannot crash.
32. You think that everyone is interested in your conspiracy theories about Microsoft (or should i say M$ in order for you, teenagers to understand?), and how they destroyed linux,
33. You keep ignoring the fact that thousands of linux servers get hacked every year, but it takes one Windows server hacked to get you and your fellow linux idiots to dance and celebrate.
"From this release on, it is intended that major changes only be merged into the kernel within two weeks after a major release. The rest of the time will be spent fixing bugs, with the goal of both increasing overall stability and decreasing the amount of time between major releases."
I wish Linus would arrive at a policy and just stick with it instead of all these gyrations of "we'll use this method from now on...no wait...we'll use this one from now on...and by the way I want everyone to switch revision control systems now...oh wait...sigh.
Linux is *not* user friendly, and until it is linux will stay with >1% marketshare.
/tmp or the installer will dump core. After the installer is done, edit /etc/X11/XF86Config and add a section called "GL" and put "driver nv" in it. Make sure you have the latest version of X and Linux kernel 2.6 or else X will segfault when you start. OK, run the Quake 3 installer and make sure you set the proper group and setuid permissions on quake3.bin. If you want sound, look here [link to another obscure web site], which is a short HOWTO on how to get sound in Quake 3. That's all there is to it!"
Take installation. Linux zealots are now saying "oh installing is so easy, just do apt-get install package or emerge package": Yes, because typing in "apt-get" or "emerge" makes so much more sense to new users than double-clicking an icon that says "setup".
Linux zealots are far too forgiving when judging the difficultly of Linux configuration issues and far too harsh when judging the difficulty of Windows configuration issues. Example comments:
User: "How do I get Quake 3 to run in Linux?"
Zealot: "Oh that's easy! If you have Redhat, you have to download quake_3_rh_8_i686_010203_glibc.bin, then do chmod +x on the file. Then you have to su to root, make sure you type export LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5 but ONLY if you have that latest libc6 installed. If you don't, don't set that environment variable or the installer will dump core. Before you run the installer, make sure you have the GL drivers for X installed. Get them at [some obscure web address], chmod +x the binary, then run it, but make sure you have at least 10MB free in
User: "How do I get Quake 3 to run in Windows?"
Zealot: "Oh God, I had to install Quake 3 in Windoze for some lamer friend of mine! God, what a fucking mess! I put in the CD and it took about 3 minutes to copy everything, and then I had to reboot the fucking computer! Jesus Christ! What a retarded operating system!"
So, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that what seems easy and natural to Linux geeks is definitely not what regular people consider easy and natural. Hence, the preference towards Windows.
I'm not really a grammar/spelling/correctness nazi either, so I can't really complain about slashdot going down hill. I just feel compelled to post.
Uh... I wish my name was Linux?
This is a cool use for the Coral Cache, mirroring files this big: the kernel.
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It's GNU/Linux, you bastard!
--
Richard M. Stallman
It's LINUS Torvalds. God, I hate reading typoes!
funny :)
I am what most people would consider a highly trained technical professional. Unlike most people who spout off at this site, I have the certificates to prove this, and furthermore they're issued by the biggest software company in existence.
I know how to tell facts from marketing fluff. Now, here are the facts as they're found by SEVERAL INDEPENDENT RESEARCH INSTITUTES:
Expenses for file-server workloads under Windows, compared to LinuxOS:
They compared Microsofts IIS to the Linux 7.0 webserver. For Windows, the cost was only:
Application development and support costs for Windows compared to an opensores solution like J2EE:
A full Windows installation, compared to installing Linux, on an Enterprise Server boxen:
Compared to the best known opensores webserver "Red Hat", Microsoft IIS:
These are hard numbers and 100% FACTS! There are several more where these came from.
Who do you think we professionals trust more?
Reliable companies with tried and tested products, or that bedroom coder Thorwaldes who publicly admits that he is in fact A HACKER???
--
Copyright (c) 2004 Mike Bouma, MCSE, MCDST, MS Office Specialist, widely respected Amigan
Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document
under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2
or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation;
with no Invariant Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover
Texts. A copy of the license is included in the section entitled "GNU
Free Documentation License".
Copyright (c) 2006 Mike Bouma, MCSE, MCDST, MS Office Specialist, widely respected Amigan
All,
/etc/supfile-2.6.13 and nothing happened. Can you tell me what I did wrong, or does some of the possible breakage affect updating? :)
I just did cvsup -g -L 2
And good morning to you too...
What kind of person are you that these "linux fanatics" would make so angry and desperate as to spend hours writing this stuff and posting it to slashdot?
I'm a fairly technical user, not a tech god by any stretch of the imagination, but I know my way around. I know how to forward ports on my router, I do all my own XVID rips from Vdub, I can install most Linux distros without a problem, and I'm damned proficient at packages like Photoshop and Illustrator. In addition, I'm a gamer from back in the DOS days, so concepts like editing text files (config.sys, autoexec.bat, etc) don't necessarily scare me.
That said, as much as I like the concept of Linux, I simply will not try it any longer until I hear that a number of problems have been solved.
A) Having to recompile kernels/worrying that apps will be broken by upgrading that kernel. For that matter, I don't want to have to compile anything, ever. Just to make this clear, never. Come up with either something akin to Windows where I click on a standard installer, or make it like Mac where I just drag and drop the folder.
B) Any time I'm forced to drop to a command line, you as a developer have failed. Back 10 years ago, this may have been acceptable. In this day and age, it isn't. Furthermore, while once in a blue moon I may change a text file in Windows, in Linux it's a constant occurence. Again, you have failed.
C) MAN pages do not cut it. Neither does a message board where half the time I'll be called a clueless n00b, 25% of the time I'll be told to use a different distro, and the other 25% of the time I'll get genuinely helpful people giving me contradictory answers. If I'm expected to jump to an alien computing environment you'd best make sure your documentation is up to snuff. Linux sucks in this regard.
I'm an advanced user who's in favor of open source, but the bizarre, arcane, and technical details I have to jump through to achieve the same things that are comparatively simple in Mac or Windows may Linux a deal breaker. You will never, ever, become successful on the desktop until idiocy like this is exorcised from the OS.
Sorry, I don't know if your post was intended to be funny, or simply a troll, but the kernel is just Linux and nobody ever claimed otherwise, least of all Stallman.
The non-technical people out there understand version #s only enough to be confused here. They probably think Linux is stagnating. I'm not saying we need to rush ahead to "Linux XP" or something, but wouldn't it be wise to start incrementing something other than the 3rd set of digits?
I've never understood how anyone can hate Freedom that much...
Non-technical people probably don't give a rat's arse which version of the kernel their Ubuntu/ SUSE/ Linspire install is running, if they even know what a kernel is at all.
The new release strategy being introduced as of this kernel, with two weeks before a feature freeze is an interesting step. The kernel development process has been changed a lot, and as much as some people may complain about these frequent changes, I believe it is in the search for a better way of working/more productivity. Surely exploring the problem for better solutions is a better way of trying to improve releases than putting up with a good-enough release method..
Business Voyeur
2.6.13 Linux(TM) kernel
${YEAR+1} is going to be the year of Linux on the desktop!
- RMS
Even non-technical people these days know that version numbers don't mean jack shit.
Industry standard 3d, compositing and editing tools all run under linux which is the natural progression because of their IRIX legacy.
I've also done some DTP under linux but that probably wasn't professional, since I didn't just bang a series of poorly masked raster images together like most 'professional' agencies we dealt with.
Does this make me a linux fanatic?
As they say in osnews, devfs seems to have been removed from the kernel.
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Does it run Windows?
I'm f#$king magic!
Linux Torvalds announced the release of the 2.6.13 Linux kernel.
If it is, it's funny, if it's not...well, it's even funnier!
I've been using Linux since 2.0.27. It has usually been generally quite stable for me. But recently, I've been encountering more and more kernel crashes. For trivial things to, like a kernel crash when I try to use ifconfig yesterday when setting up a machine. And random crashes on one of my servers that doesn't seem related to RAM. I know that some kernel versions have "problems", but it seems to be more than that. A recent trend of unstability. Can anyone else who has been using Linux for a significant amount of time attest to this?
2.7 would be the unstable version, this is currently being done by a branch of the 2.6 kernel which was designed to be expanded and have features ported back into it.
It does..
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
Does it run linux?
This PCI code rewrite doesn't bother me as much as some of the recent 2.6 releases including new drivers for obscure proprietary hardware.
A large number of organizations (as well as Debian Stable and Redhat) still use 2.4. It's pretty pathetic. 2.6 was released in December of 2003, over a year and a half ago. It offers significant performance advantages over 2.4 in many areas. Maybe instead of spending time switching policies, kernel developers should be consulting with end-users (note: this does not mean just/predominantly IBM and the other big fish. It means people like US, too) to find out why we're not using 2.6. Aside from security patches, any effort on 2.4 development/maintenance needs to stop. It's a brain drain, and active maintenance is encouraging people to be lazy in upgrading (and that's probably part of the issue).
Right now 2.6 is a lame-duck kernel, and if they keep trudging on and release the next stable without looking at why 2.6 isn't the defacto kernel of choice today, Linux will be rather fubar'd.
Please help metamoderate.
I really hope it contains DRM, I hear that's the greatest new thing. Without it, you can't play mp3s and movies.
There's a good summary of the new features over at LWN. Among other things, inotify has finally been merged in - about time! I wonder when Gentoo will add the new version to Portage, and if I'll dare to upgrade?
Download the latest Linux kernel from a kernel.org mirror.
apt-get install kernel-image-2.6-686
No, it won't get the latest kernel, but it will get one that has been tested a bit first.
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
That would be Gnome XP or KDE XP or whatever-window-manager-you-are-running-XP. The kernel would be Linux NT. \m/
\m/
I just finished configuring and compiling the kernel for my desktop last night, and now Linus decides that I'm not important to him. Why doesn't he return my calls? Doesn't he love me anymore??
I have bad karma
They forgot the attribution as well:
Linux® is the registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in the U.S. and other countries.
http://www.linuxmark.org/attribution.html
Deleted
How quickly they forget about the XP service pack that broke everything and of course Microsoft's lack of documentation is laughable compared to the wealth of additional documentation availiable on linux (HOWTO's and package documentation).
Sounds like you already found an OS that fits your needs but feel free to rant about unrelated software in a story about a new kernel release.
Woah, that Linux Torvalds guy must be annoyed that some retarded bearded hippie at MIT insists that he's a really is wilderbeast and thus should be named thereafter.
Linux DOES has a stable ABI, this is, the syscall interface. It hasn't been changed in years...I know people who is running binaries compiled for linux 1.0 in 2.6 kernels. If your app breaks or works bad when changing the kernel version (ej: openoffice when the semantics of yield() where changed in 2.5) is probably because your app was broken in first place. Now, regression and bugs can happen too, but those aren't on purpose
s /linux-2.6.git;a=blob;h=f39c9d714db3d6bf2f6440d2f6 cf9353057eeae5;hb=02b3e4e2d71b6058ec11cc01c72ac651 eb3ded2b;f=Documentation/stable_api_nonsense.txt
Maybe you mean the internal kernel API - which affects to modules, NVIDIA & friends etc. That API is unstable on purpose, as explained here: http://kernel.org/git/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvald
Or maybe you mean "compatibility" WRT gtk & friends, if GTK breaks compatibily thats their broblem
...When 2.6.12 came along it broke my IDE-SCSI setup (I use one quirky piece of software that REFUSES to work unless my DVD-ROM drive is accessable as a SCSI device, and there's no alternatives available for it) and I couldn't make it work again. In addition, I completely lost audio from my bttv device and couldn't restore it.
I'm a bit hesitant to switch from 2.6.11.
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
kernel.org has plenty of bandwidth for this.
It's been a while since I tried the Linux. I thought that maybe things had matured a little and it would work now. I downloaded it double-clicked on the icon, but nothing happened (I just got an error message, same as before). This Linux thing still has a long way to go if people are going to be able to use it. Do they test this at all? If they just downloaded it, it would be obvious that it doesn't work.
I always have trouble finding the new features and driver changes with each major release.
For reference, Kernel trap has a copy of Linus' e-mail to the Linux Kernel Mailing List with a list of changes. If someone has a better link, please reply.
So when is Longhorn due again?
The non-technical people out there understand version #s only enough to be confused here. They probably think Linux is stagnating. I'm not saying we need to rush ahead to "Linux XP" or something, but wouldn't it be wise to start incrementing something other than the 3rd set of digits?
Simple answer: wherever you read version 2.6.x, read 2.7.x instead. For all intents and purposes, I regard Linux 2.6.x as development branch.
Just look at the the huge number of patches that go into the kernel between 2.6.x releases. And check the size of all those patches combined. Even changelogs are in the MB. range. Compare that with 2.4.x series.
Anybody who claims 2.6.x is a 'stable' kernel series, is a liar. Stable running: yes. I'm used to compiling my own kernels from vanilla 2.6.x sources, and I can't remember ever having had a hard lockup (where the machine is totally frozen). And my use of Linux includes all common things like webbrowsing (JavaScript, Java + flash plugins all used on and off), MP3 music, and internet multipayer, hardware accelerated 3D gaming.
But stable from a development point of view ('mature')? No way. Personally I suspect things are done this way, because the 2.6.x series provide such a powerful foundation, that allmost everything you can cook up, one way or the other can be fitted into existing infrastructure. And putting it into 2.6 releases, exposes it to a lot of users/testers, so that bugs can be shaken out fast.
If you don't like this, then I suggest you either a) don't compile your own kernels, but have a stability-oriented distro like Debian or Slackware-based do it for you, or b) look at *BSD instead.I'd like to use the stock kernel as much as possible.
:(
As of now no SATA DVD drive works well unless you change one line and recompile the kernel.
So many systems are now built as SATA-only (yes, the IDE ports are completely unused), stock kernels break all live-CD distributions - none of them will boot
Damnit! I just finished compiling Kernel 2.6.12-gentoo-r9 yesterday!!!! No. REALLY!
Akarsz Magyar Gentoo fórumot? Akkor
Update disc. Or can I just download an executable somewhere? Or can I just access a web site and run an ActiveX script or Java script to run a hotfix? Hmmm. OOOPS!!! My Bad!!! I forgot this was not a Microsoft Operating System. When are you Linux people going to figure out that the only way you are ever going to get mainstream acceptance is when I (the average joe blow user) can click on a link, choose to run or save and run later in order to update my system? Figure this out already why don't you.....
Too bad I don't have mod points SuperBanana. Hopefully moderators will see the obvious brilliance of your comment.
Good stuff.
GP post comes up every other week or so, almost exact, word for word. Surprised it hasn't been modded to oblivion as Trollbait by now.
First I have been using some OS since 1984. I have admin and engineer experience with many OS's. There are issues with any OS/kernel. I have been using Linux regularly since 1997 and soley since 2000. Yet I really would rather use something like Linux with all of the support from the kernel dev's and user's out there. My cousin is having a really hard time with his Windows 2000 box get support it is always costing him an arm and a leg and the virus and other problems that just enundate WindowXXXX. Like I say I will continue using Linux as my sole OS for a long time.
Besides being nearly a verbatum copy of something I've read before, this is really off topic as the announcement had nothing to do with either Quake or Linux on the desktop. Whatever these PCI changes are, maybe they'll be of interest in the server arena where Linux does have a sizable presence.
The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return.
In case anyone's interested, a torrent for this latest Linux kernel is available at torrent.ibiblio.org.
Linux packaging technology beats the ass of windows any time. I can click double click on .debs and get them openened by a installer just like .msi
.exe programs from docens of differents web pages. This becomes SCARY when you've to update things. For the vast majority of software you've to check for new versions visiting their web page and reading the text to check visually if there's a new version. Compare it to the magic of apt-get and emerge....I wonder when Microsoft will catch up with the early 90's and will develop a new .msi format where developers can suministrate a URL for a XML file which tells Windows what are the latest file versions of a given program...there're hints that makes me believe that they'll use RSS for this in Windows Vista, but I don't expect that much from microsoft...
The problem is in how they're delivered and the lack of 1) a common packaging format and 2) lack of a common "package namespace" (ie: xorg can be called xorg in fedora and xserver-xorg in debian, that makes dependencies fail and can be only fixed by using a common packaging framework where developers and not distros makers package things)
But Linux continues being much better than windows in some areas. For example, you've to download the
Okay, this is something that's been on my mind a while, so I hope it'll get some amount of attention and hopefully an interesting reply or two.
I also hope it's not going to get modded down to the seventh level of hell, as I'm about to (gasp!) express disagreement with Linus.
First of all, I am vaguely concerned about the Linux kernel development. It's been a long time since there's been major improvements under the hood. I've had Linux desktops freeze on me. In the past, that never happened. Ever. I don't know which kernels are trustworthy anymore. I've read something to the extent that stabilizing kernels is now considered the Linux commercial vendors' job. Excuse me, but WTF?
In the meanwhile, while we Linux types wave our dicks around and gloat over how great we are, the guys at Redmond are happily making it possible to change video drivers in their OS on the fly, and to unload a crashed driver without taking down the system. Will it work? Probably not 100% well right away, but trust me, they WILL make it work or they'll die trying. And Windows 2000 is proof that they can certainly do things well when they put their minds to it.
And Linux is about to become the unstable OS choice and it seriously pisses me off.
A very long time ago, Linus Torvalds and Andrew Tanenbaum had a since famous argument about the core structure of the kernel.
Linus's argument was, if my memory serves, that it all boils down to pushing bits around, and that you should as well push the bits in the simplest way.
And this is where I disagree.
Kernel development is about pushing around the bits that will push bits around. Those are the bits you want to push around in the simplest way. The goal is not simply to produce a good kernel, it's to produce a maintainable, efficiently improvable set of source that will compile into a good kernel. Otherwise, the end product you get is a good kernel for its time that will be a bitch to drag into the future.
Perhaps the state of the Linux kernel development today is but Tanenbaum's schadenfreude.
Assuming that kernel improvements have indeed, as is my admittedly fragmentary view, slowed down worryingly, I find myself wondering if, simply, now is when Tanenbaum should be speaking up, rather than all those years ago. The structural needs then were simple: few consumer devices, reduced architechtural diversity. Today's aren't. And there is STILL no 'just-works' way for third parties to deliver drivers to their customers. The least worse they can do is deliver sources to the kernel maintainers and hope that 1) they will be accepted, and 2) there won't be too many months between now and the moment their customer's OS uses that kernel. Or they can ship scripts that will compile glue code between their driver and the currently running kernel, and hope that the customer has a freaking compiler installed. I'm sorry, I can compile drivers and upgrade kernels manually, but neither are acceptable solutions for the mass market.
In fact, I'll go out on a limb and predict that unless the kernel's structure and development processes are rethought to take into account the use of an OS as a three-party system -- the OS vendor, the user, and the commodity/paraphernalia providers -- Linux will never be a significant player in the desktop market.
Thought on that? Please, please, please prove me wrong. I'm a long time Linux user, I did in my time the mandatory contributions to the kernel that allows me to speak up and bitch now, and from what I can see the future is not looking well for the Linux kernel. So please prove me wrong. Thanks.
Sounds like the big 2.4 memory management VM change that messed so much stuff up, made at around this point in the 2.4 release cycle (I think .10?).
Why aren't these major changes made when 2.6 is launched rather than changing things that may already be used in people's systems?
Keep some compatibility and have more releases more often that aren't minor. I don't see how VM chnagesin 2.4 and this change in 2.6 are minor and considered acceptable by its users.
-M
when you see the word 'Linux', drink!
Yes, because typing in "apt-get" or "emerge" makes so much more sense to new users than double-clicking an icon that says "setup".
Apparently: I've met many a Windows-user who's petrified of installing software, but I've never had any difficulty with running apt-get.
Look out!
People paying attention to Linux kernel releases are not non-technical. Non-technical people go with the latest version of their preferred distribution. The release numbers of the distribution are what counts to them.
Free Gamer - Free games list and commentary
... you won't be mod'ed up, but he will.
I plan to test the new kernel on a couple of my servers this weekend just because of, as you noted, the PCI changes.
As for the desktop, I'll wait until the Ubuntu people package the kernel update and automatically deliver it to me.
Anonymous poster claims to be a pilot, too:1 &cid=13360840
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=15955
linux sux linux sux linux sux
Troll all you want, but please don't insult my emerge! /gentoo zealot
Wnyone else who can burn DVD's only single-speed with the new kernels?
:-(
I know it still works with 2.6.8 but reiser4 is only available for 2.6.9+
Any ideas (except "use 2.4.x...!" or "reiser4 blablabla...!")?
I would like to hear from someone if he can write DVD's with full speed using cdrecord (which version?) and a kernel newer than 2.6.8!
Thank you!
"Take installation. Linux zealots are now saying "oh installing is so easy, just do apt-get install package or emerge package": Yes, because typing in "apt-get" or "emerge" makes so much more sense to new users than double-clicking an icon that says "setup"."
Isnt that why we have GUI programs like synaptic?? You can use synaptic without even touching the shell.. I actually think it is easier to install programs this way, than doing it on windows. On windows i would have to first download the installer and then manually install it, while on linux distros, it would do both automaticly.
I could swear I see this exact post in every Kernel release story on Slashdot. No, it's not insightful, It's tired and repetative.
Not to mention off-topic, package isntallation isn't the responsibility of the kernel devs, it doesn't even really have much to do with the kernel itself. Maybe if this were copy/pasted to every distro-related story, it'd be less annoying, and actually worthy of a plus whatever insightful.
User: "How do I get Quake 3 to run in Gentoo?"
/etc/X11/XF86Config and adding a section called "GL" and put "driver nv" in it. The Section is called Device and the nv driver doesn't support 3D. You need the nVidia driver for 3D.
Zealot: "Oh that's easy! From a shell, su so you have rights to install software and execute emerge quake3.
User: "How do I get Quake 3 to run in Windows?"
Zealot: "Just click on the setup icon."
User: "What setup icon?"
Zealot:"The one that appeared in windows explorer when you put the cd in"
User: "What CD? I need a CD?"
Zealot:"Yes, or you can download a demo from any random site. Just make sure your anti-virus is up to date and your spyware programs are running."
An interesting side note, The parent suggested editing
Request a Linux Shockwave player here: http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/wishform/
blah blah blah
Do you really think the kernel developers care about how easy it is for Joe Noob to install Linux and play Quake with it? I certainly don't, and I resent the fact that distributions like Lindows (or whatever it's called this week) and Ubuntu have drawn so many idiots to the Linux community because of their ease-of-installation.
anti-Linux (MS ?) Shills are at it again, with their support to mod them up. The oldest occurrence of this post I can find is this one : http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=135647&cid =11333134 .
...).
... I suppose this one will be resurrected often though. Reminds me of the good old days, when old trolls were reappearing even though the problems were fixed a long time ago. ...
What's sad is that you see them coming from far far away, but the worst is that their arguments are always flawed.
So they play with emotional things, and don't even get that right (Linux is *not* user friendly, and until it is linux will stay with > 1% marketshare, I suppose they meant < 1 %
And then, say stupid things like :
Take installation. Linux zealots are now saying "oh installing is so easy, just do apt-get install package or emerge package": Yes, because typing in "apt-get" or "emerge" makes so much more sense to new users than double-clicking an icon that says "setup".
Eliminating the context, and deliberately forgetting the part about the GUI, like Synaptic or Mandrake Update (which are available in the menu, with names like "Update your system" or "Add new applications").
But wait, they are even more stupid than that !!!! They have no shame. They even talk about the difficultly of Linux configuration issues and then, to illustrate that, ask How do I get Quake 3 to run in Linux?. Which of course, has nothing to do with Linux configuration issues, and everything to do with the Quake 3 editor not providing a convenient installation method. I don't know Quake 3 per se, so I can't verify what these unreliable sources say, but if these guy http://wcuniverse.sourceforge.net/ can provide an installation file for their Open Source game that works on any Linux thanks to the very old Loki installer, I think any proprietary company can do it too.
Oh but wait, I checked and Quake 3 actually comes with the same installer at least for the french version !!!!
But of course, this old troll had to detail all the installation instructions of the NVidia driver and whatnot for XFree, to sound complicated. Trolls these days
Heck, today I just saw "X does not support PNP displays", "X is slow", "Linux has bad font support"
Fortunately, anti-Linux trolls do not include "Linux has no games" when they talk about difficulty of installing Quake 3 on it, thank god !
I JUST installed the 2.6.12 kernel yesterday! Son of a bitch! Looks like this will be another exercise in "learn how to compile a Linux kernel... again..."
I was able to use it to bootstrap my Gentoo install until I could install a custom kernal with STAT-ATAPI enabled.
" Fix oops in fs/locks.c on close of file with pending locks" Fuck Yeah they fixed it! !, now my plan for World domination can continue!!!!
I'm a Windows user, and I just set up Ubuntu 5.04 in a VMWare session. It looks awsome, and I was looking forward to playing with it.
.rpm and .tar.gz. Ok, so I checked around the net and found out I had to use the alien -i command to convert it to a .deb package. Did that. No luck - both files open with an 'Archive Manager'. No buttons in the Linux equivalent of Add/Remove Programs to say 'run this' (and the Help | Contents entry for 'Running applications' was blank).
.rpm file was copied incorrectly, since I couldn't delete it afterwards. Had to remove it from a root command line, after searching the net for that command.
.pl file, which wasn't recognized by the commandline - so I had to find out how to run the perl command). Text installer, but works ok. Except it didn't recognize Ubuntu, so it wanted to recompile - and I didn't have the source installed.
.. my conclusion is this:
First install: VMware tools. Two files on the CD:
Apparently the original
I had to run a number of commands to mount the drive and copy the file, unzip it or whatever, and then try to install it (using a
In the end I gave up. And with a number of other serious flaws (such as 'Search for Files' not being integrated in the file explorer, and it's inability to find a fucking folder with the specified name), and a whole slew of other things
Ubuntu looks nice, but it won't replace my Windows system - or that of any of my friends' - for the next couple of years.
I might try SuSe or some other linux distro, but at the moment I'm not optimistic that my experience would be better.
I agree with one of the parent posters - Linux desperately needs to have more GUI options for day to day operations, and it sorely needs something like Windows Installer technology that works for all Linux distributions.
Until that comes, Linux stays in a VMWare to play with. If even that. And I don't care if it's 'linux's (as in the kernel) fault, or the apps that we use or try to install - it all just needs to 'work'. That's my experience in Windows, and I expect the same ease of use with Linux before I'll make the switch.
There are discussions here regarding Linux's instability. However, there is a bigger problem that exists which I have pointed out earlier.
The issue is that it is not Linux that is unstable, but X (XOrg or XFree). I recently installed a multitude of distributions recently*. X crashed on all of them, many times frequently. All occurred within the first few days of installing. Bear in mind that not everyone has another computer hooked up to the Internet where one can SSH into the machine and kill X. For some, the crash of X is the crash of the computer. CTRL + ALT + BACKSPACE doesn't always work. This is my biggest issue with Linux or UNIX variants.
I do propose a solution: a patch or replacement to X in where it does not run as root at all (to the uninformed, running X as a user still has parts run as root). If this is not possible, then revise it as such:
1) Include only the minimal, absolute necessary code required to run as root
2) A small, and as a result less complex, code will make it easier to reduce bugs and increase stability
3) Make this root code standard across platforms (Linux and other UNIX variants) so no modifications which add to code size are required, again reducing code and enlarging the audience that can review the code
Strip the code that runs as root the *barest* essentials and let all functionality run as a user. Long story short, whatever can't run as root can't crash your computer. Therefore, eliminate or make it as small as possible (significantly less than what X runs as root today).
Are there working projects available that I am not aware of? Recently, I have heard that OpenBSD has something akin to what I am talking about. Is this accurate? What of GNU Hurd? If I remember correctly it implements some of this (at least to my limited micro kernel understanding); however, is it even usable yet?
* I was let down by the new Debian Stable (stock install 3.1ra) (1 of 5 distributions I evaluated). It's wonderfully easy now and set up everything out of the box (mp3 and video support included which many users have been clamoring for from other distributions), but X crashes very frequently when switching to a VC and randomly crashes a lot in general.
The PCMCIA subsystem has been substantially re-written. The good news is that the lame support that was there before has hopefully been fixed. The bad news is that people who had something running with the old, lame support may find out that 2.6.13 breaks it. Support in Fedora is *probably* coming but don't expect it right away:
> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 01:23:22 -0400
> From: Dave Jones
> Reply-To: For users of Fedora Core releases
> To: For users of Fedora Core releases
> Subject: Re: 2.6.13 Kernel
>
> On Sun, Aug 28, 2005 at 08:36:30PM -0600, David G. Miller (aka DaveAtFraud)
wrote:
>> The 2.6.13 version of the kernel is now available from
>> http://www.kernel.org/ as well as the usual mirrors. Anyone have any
>> thoughts as to plans by Fedora to move FC4 to the 2.6.13 kernel?
>
>'soon'. But not probably not in the next week or two.
>
>> I'm normally not a "new kernel junkie" but PCMCIA support gets
>> significant fixes in 2.6.13.
>
> read as: almost complete rewrite. It needs completely different userspace,
> and is almost guaranteed to break existing configurations.
> We're still trying to make it work in rawhide.
>
> I'm not sure how this is going to play out in FC4 yet.
> It may even come to the extreme of reverting chunks of it so that
> the existing cardmgr style in FC4 continues to work.
Unfortunately, by the time 2.6.13 finished building on my laptop (HP Pavilion zv6015) last night, it was too late to do much besides see if it would boot (it did). Next step is get ndiswrapper working with 2.6.13 (haven't even recompiled it yet) and then see if a PCMCIA card I insert is at least recognized (it would be a nice start).
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
I know the OP was trolling, but your response (as well as the OP) is also based on assumptions. I mean, what if the 'user' cannot get his proprietary wireless card to work in Gentoo, hence no internet? What if he only has a dialup and emerge takes forever? What if he DID get it to install through emerge (assuming the gentoo installation itself wasn't too confusing), then his proprietary video card doesn't support 3D acceleration? ... Point being you can't ASSUME certain conditions and situations and use that as your basis to counter an argument (in this case) or to somehow illustrate that your option is in fact better than the alternative (which you allude to).
Do you think that anyone who can't compile a kernel or write an XF86Config is an idiot?
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
I've seen this post before.
...have you tried ctrl-alt-F1 to get back to the console? That may work even if X has stopped responding to ctrl-alt-backspace, as long as it's just X that locked up.
If you can't figure it out with the wealth of information on the internet, then yes.
I was going for a healthy mixture of +1 Funny and -1 Redundant.
/usr/src/linux.
My complaint is wholly faux and not meant to be taken seriously. =)
But, good Sir, you are absolutely right of course... assuming one already downloaded and unpacked the 2.6.13 kernel and symlinked it up to
Akarsz Magyar Gentoo fórumot? Akkor
The wealth of information on the internet is not always relivante nor correct. Most of the information out there is so outdated where it takes someone who already has an idea of what they are doing to figure out what to chose.
(post anon because of mod)
You should have used my packages of VMWare. :p
The 2.6.13 kernel also includes updates to the DVB c ode / drivers to support newer devices.
- pchdtv.com HD3000 -- Previously, they used v4l drivers. It seems that the direction now is to use DVB drivers. The new kernel will work in DVB mode with th HD3000.
- DVico FusionHDTV3 QAM -- Newly supported card, I have one & have tested it with OTA and cable (QAM) reception. Works great with MythTV (as does the HD3000).
--
Support for the DVico FusionHDTV5 cards is also under way. I'm not sure if it made it into the 2.6.13 release ( I doubt it.. patching the kernel will probably be necessary ).
I figured as much. I didn't mention it because I wasn't absolutely sure (I haven't seen the repeat posts yet) and didn't want to offend someone I was trying to help if I was wrong.
This one caused many hours of annoyance when some of my hardware stopped working. Apparrently you now have to pass no-apic as a boot argument now, if your computer has problems with apic (supposedly there was some fix in linux that meant people no longer had to have no-apic on, but not in my case with my MSI motherboard). Hopefully this hint saves at least one other poor soul from some hours of trying to figure out why their ethernet card no longer works properly (the driver loads, the interface appears, but the device doesn't actually work).
Very sensible. You blame Linux (Ubuntu actually) for the faults of VMware. And then you say "I don't care if its not Ubuntu's fault, that should just work." Your demands are unreasonable.
That's my experience in Windows, and I expect the same ease of use with Linux before I'll make the switch.
If your Linux box much match exactly your experiance with Windows, you will never be happy. Ubuntu is not Windows, nor is it a copy, nor is it trying to be.
But it does not matter in the end. Ubuntu and Linux do not need you and people like you: Windows users with high demands but no desire to help and make things better. Linux will get double digit desktop use by catering to most of the world that does not own a computer yet; people who have way less needs than you and are far less picky. Plus they might actually give something back besides complaints.
Enjoy Windows, I'm glad there is an option that fits you. Just please note that Linux as a whole gains nothing by your "conversion" so there is little reason to help you with it.
Open Source Sushi
What I like about FreeBSD is that it is noticeably more stable. Yes, with fewer shiny features.
:)
Really, if I need to run a heavy-loaded server, I consider FreeBSD first and Linux second. Your comment just explained why.
Not that I don't like Linux or want to start a flamewar
Computers make very fast, very accurate mistakes
yes - only because they can't RTFM!
jownz
"An interesting side note, The parent suggested editing /etc/X11/XF86Config and adding a section called "GL" and put "driver nv" in it. The Section is called Device and the nv driver doesn't support 3D. You need the nVidia driver for 3D."
Jesus if this isn't a perfect example of what he's talking about. How in hell would the average (i.e. "what's a config file" average) Windows user even have a clue about something like this?
--dave
davecb@spamcop.net
A few months ago I was running into problems with XFS crapping out and sometimes even doing file corruption when the filesystem got past about 80% full. I had to drop back down to a XFS patched version of 2.4. Anyone who has been activly following the RC's for the last few minor versions... has this been addressed?
Remeber the version numbering convergence to PI. The version number of an ideal piece of software equals PI. Real programs are never ideal and therefore have smaller version numbers. As they are perfected, the version numbers asymptotically approach PI. Linux is still at the very beginning of its lifespan and therefore it would be unwise to rush to version numbers that are too close to the goal state.
No, they shouldn't have to SFTW RTFM or even study *FOO to use a PC that anyone can purchase from a retailer and use out of the box with minimal stress. Now, lets not forget that is is not the hardcore, but, the hardened that sit any whine about others abilitys, the same USERS that forget about the first time they re-compiled a kernel which I can guarentee even with step by step documentation was a bit stressfull.
What You Should Know About Zotob
Zotob is a worm that targets Windows 2000-based computers and takes advantage of a security issue that was addressed by Microsoft Security Bulletin MS05-039. This worm and its variants install malicious software, and then search for other computers to infect.
Windows 2000 Transitions to Extended Support June 30, 2005
Microsoft is not ending support for Windows 2000. During the Extended Support phase, Microsoft continues to provide security hot fixes and paid support but no longer provides complimentary support options, design change requests, and non-security hotfixes.*
Well, I've been using it since 0.01, and No kernel version has ever been even remotely stable for me (I've used every major/minor version)!! In fact, I'm compiling 2.6.13 by hand right now cause my 2.6.12 box won't stay up for move than a few seconds!!
You make a major release, and the first thing you do is throw tons of new crap into it? Surely the first priority ought to be, to see how it shakes out in the much larger testbed of public use? Then new stuff should be added on top of a stable base, rather than hung off the side of some iffy point-zero release, where bugs will compound on top of bugs.
So, the ideal release of Windows was version 3.1?
hello dear sirs my name is jamesh i are india (bihar) can u guide me install red had linux 9?
Maybe that the time has come for Linus to take in some consideration the need for a change in the kernel code model. As of today it is released as a monolythic piece of software wheighing 27+ MB of compressed code (almost 240 MB when uncompressed). /dev/null.
If you add this to the complexity of an OS anyone can easily understand why a "partitioned" schema would greatly help the development.
Of course I'm also thinking about an oldish querelle between Linus and Andy Tanenbaum about monolythic kernel and microkernel approaches. I'm not talking just about this, but at least about partitioning of the code into (almost) independed units.
And maybe a microkernel approach could help to move in this direction: none can deny that both of them have a lot to teach about OSes.
Please, send flames to
Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
"Easy" to a Linux geek means, "These series steps are logical and make sense".
"Hard" to a Linux geek means, "All this black magic hides what's going on. How am I supposed to know if the "foo" audio|video|monitor|RAID controller is supported or make it supported if it isn't?"
The notion that someone will make black-box installers that accomodate every target hardware invarient is unthinkable -- there must be a pattern or standard that is being leveraged... or is there? Maybe, my hardware isn't supported, but could be.
Complex, scalable, extensible systems can exist only because of an underlying robust structure. Linux exposes that structure, whereas Windows hides it, or tries to. Without seeing the structure, a geek can't understand how and why and is reduced to having to learn what appear to be a myriad set of unreleated things. This is unacceptable because such shallow understanding does not scale the way that deep understanding does.
Geeks don't want to know how to install a few most popular packages on a small number of platforms -- they want to know how to install anything that can leverage any hardware capable of providing the necessary capabilities said thing requires. Geeks buying a house want to know how a house is built, not just where the rooms are -- what if they want to change something?
For some pepole, a capacity for deep understanding comes naturally, and tends to accompany a capacity for abstract thought. Lacking deep understanding results in a belief in not understanding at all -- shallow understanding is useful only in such restricted specific circumstances that it isn't worth the storage space in the brain to remember.
So, yes, Windows is hard for geeks. Less so, if one develops for the platform, but that is generally not an option for anyone on a closed O/S.
A lesser effect is that geeks don't seam to respond to the same kinds of cues "normals" do. Take pictographic toolbar icons, for example. Many times, I could not use a Windows app because I could not understand the instruction "to print, click the print icon" because the latter was non-obvious to me and the familiar File->Print was somewhow not available. "Where?" "On the toolbar" "With the other pictograms?" "Yes" "Which one?" "The print one!" "But which one is the print one?" "The one that looks like a printer!!". "That's a printer? I wasn't sure what it was." "So! The tooltip will tell you!" "There are no tool tips." "Yes, there are. Mouse over the pictograms." "On the toolbar...?" "Yes! (exasperated)" "Nothing happens." "Show me... (comes over to look)." "See, nothing." "NO!! Like this! (mousing over s l o w e r)" "And just how was I supposed to know how fast to mouse over? And what was mouse-over-able?" "No one mouses over that fast, they can't read the tooltips, and they'd pop up too fast and when they weren't wanted." "Don't assume how fast I can read. Anyway, thanks, I can print now... er, how do I make this app select the same stuff and print from a command line?" "Well, if it has automation.... but why do you want to do that?" "Well, I want to do this every day at the same time and not forget." "Oh, it has to have an automation interface, and you code to that." "So, does it?" "Dunno." "How do I add one? Well, if you ask real nice, and lots of people want it, it will get done." "But I need it soon!" "Well, you're the minority."
To put it another way: Linux exists because someone found Windows hard. So, to argue that Linux is "hard" and Windows "easy" is just plain wrong as an absolute.
Oh, BTW, how do I get an equivalent to a backquote in the CMD shell?
that tracks when security patches go into the linux kernel.so if i have a box thats running a kernel.org kernel i can see if that kernel has any known vulnerabilities.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
about drag'n'drop installing: Can be possible with something like kioslaves, rox-filer app folders or nautilus to wrap apt,yum or emerge so one can see a folder called "Respository" with all the available packages and another one called "Installed", so when you drag a folder from the first to the later, appears a dialog showing you the list of packages that will be installed, and asking you to confirm...?
if i delete a folder from "Installed", the package is uninstalled; the "repository" folder has some extra items in the right-click menu like "edit repository list" and "update repository", and the "Installed" folder can have the option for "update","purge unneeded dependencies" and "repair broken dependencies".
This could be made to shut up all those whinners that complain about apt... It's sad that they have to be tricked to make them quiet.
still wont allow dma to be set when your laptop uses sata
2 73.html
/usr/src/kernel-source-2.6.x-blah/include/linux/li bata.h:
even compiling the ide parts as modules and loading them later doesn't help. applying the patch
http://seclists.org/lists/linux-kernel/2005/Jul/0
doen't help.
even defining these
#define ATA_ENABLE_ATAPI
#define ATA_ENABLE_PATA
doesn't help.
hmm, bloodly Dell810's. It took me a week to get wpa wireless working on this thing. Lucky its a quite spell at work..
(ps, i went with ubuntu instead of debian testing, bummer eh, probably all my own fault)
if
Me too!
What in paticular is not working? What are your build options in 2.4.* vs those in 2.6.*? Have all the drivers for your hardware been updated to 2.6.* yet (some things like promise disk controllers only have old drivers) - what does the README in the directory for the drivers for the hardware that doesn't work properly have to say about the subject? All this may seem like a hassle, if so there are still 2.4.* kernels coming out.
Considering we don't have boot results for the released 2.6.13 kernel on a non-NUMA i386 ... maybe we should wait for a bit before installing it on our own x86 systems?
I am sitting here reading this and not believing what I am seeing. Everybody is complaining about the kernel but nobody is saying "I logged a bug report" or "I sent an e-mail to the maintainer".
/. does not count!!!
Yes I am a kernel developer (part of DCCP - to be in 2.6.14) but I cannot fix bugs if I am not told of them. And whinging on
Too bad, a patch between -rc7 and final broke the framebuffer in ATi based PPC machines (my iBook). Let's wait for 2.6.13.1
wasnt that an apple ? Linux is really aproaching microsoft , in a year we will it its patch release timming. Linux should be about stability, im switching some of my servers to BSD now. This update stravaganza is killing me :)
Bet ill get modded to troll fastest than the next kernel release .
Really, reading your comment makes me wonder what lame ass things you tried. a) Instead of a VMware Session, you should have just used the Ubuntu LiveCD. b) Search for the command to delete? What command? Right Click > Delete? Highlight > Delete Key? c) All your problems with installing could be avoided by either doing section a or using Ubuntu packages. Simply googleing "VMware Ubuntu" gives you a tutorial on as the FIRST RESULT. d) If you actually INSTALL Ubuntu it will auto-mount drives, CDs, iPods, etc. e) Applications > System Tools > Add/Remove Programs. f) Places > Search for Files. Most of your problems are from trying to use VMWare, which I'm almost sure you pirated. Or did you purchase a piece of software thats $299 last time I checked to test Ubuntu when you could have just burned the FREE LiveCD? When you can't even figure out Places > Search for Files, I wonder what the hell you are doing using something like VMware. Ubuntu GNU/Linux has it's flaws (some slight bugs in supporting my video card for one, Intel i810) but the community (ubuntuforums.org, ubuntuguide.org) are the best I've seen (they won an award at arstechnica) and once again, it's FREE. The first time you used a computer, did you sit down at your Wintel PC and know how to do everything you're doing now? No. People expect Linux to be a clone of Windows. The only thing is, it's better.
Nine reasons to use aptitude instead of apt-get or dselect.
--
Promoting critical thinking since 1994.
Do what I do, just read what was supposed to be there and move on with your life. If you freak about every typo on slashdot you are going to give yourself a heart attack!