Slashdot Mirror
Coffee A Health Drink?
Yocto Yotta wrote to mention an article from The Independent which would seem to indicate that coffee has numerous health benefits, and could be construed to be a 'health drink'. From the article: "'A study has found that coffee contributes more antioxidants - which have been linked with fighting heart disease and cancer - to the diet than cranberries, apples or tomatoes...[antioxidants in coffee] have been linked to a number of health benefits, including protection against heart disease and cancer. Studies have associated coffee drinking with a reduced risk of liver and colon cancer, type two diabetes, and Parkinson's disease.'"
... Why computer programmers and other cube dwellers are always the picture of health and fitness!
In addition, the yellow teeth you get will prevent you from getting STDs!!
:).
As if us Slashdotters need any additional help with that
my blog
Beh. Both programmers and sysadmins are supposed to never ingest any healthy stuff, so I guess that coffee is out of the question then.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
I knew I was right when they tried to take take my coffee away from me!
Sparks:Gadget:Beer Maker
ihavebeensayingforyearsthatdrinkinglotsofcoffeeisa goodthinganditsnothingtoworryabout. /Deeeep breath /twitch twitch
...unite! Demand to be viewed as demi-gods of health and prosperity!
Shit, I had just convinced my boss to replace the expresso machine for a wine cooler...
I knew there was a reason that coffee was so goddamn expensive !!
StupidChildren...the reason jesus is crying
Is it just me or is /. mirroring fark a lot recently?
Us seattlites really needed another reason to drink coffee.
Brewing my pot as I type.
Is it just me or is this sort of thing said about everything we're told is bad for us every once and a while? I remember a while back i even heard people saying that cigarettes helped with alzheimer's or something here it is
Alzheimer's delayed by cigarettes
Does this study factor in all the other ingredients that make up coffee? It doesn't do good to say it gives you a lot of anti-oxidents, while some other chemicals give you some bad benefits. Kind of cancelling out.
Well, study showed the same about alcohol.
It doesn't mean getting drunk every day is a healthy thing to do, as is maintaining a caffeïne addiction. Moderation in things is key I believe.
I just know that quitting the whole coffee-addiction had benefits for me personally.
I think we can keep recursing like this until someone returns 1
Looks like I'll never have heart desiese.
From the article:
But Professor Vinson urged moderation, recommending that people should drink only one or two cups of coffee per day.
A spokesman for the British Coffee Association said: "This study reconfirms the fact that moderate coffee consumption of four to five cups a day not only is perfectly safe but may confer health benefits."
A disconnect between science and industry if I ever I saw.
Then we have: 1 glass of wine a day + 3 cups of coffee a day + A hanful of bugs = Healthiest person ever!
//WR
From the article,
"A study has found that coffee contributes more antioxidants - which have been linked with fighting heart disease and cancer - to the diet than cranberries, apples or tomatoes."
The key bit here is "to the diet". This doesn't make coffee a health food, it means the collective we don't eat enough of the healthy stuff. Yet another misrepresentation of research and thanks to Slashdot for picking it up. I eagerly await the modded funny posts.
Feeling so good natured I could drool
The study was funded by the American Cocoa Research Institute. Make of that what you may.
Compared to a lot of the "alcohol is good for you" hype that I've seen, the article is actually pretty balanced. Still, this kind of thing makes me uncomfortable.
fish and pipes
I'm not going to believe this till I see it on TV....
I try and drink 2 glasses of Tea a day. Also try blueberries. Boysenberries taste great but aren't listed.
i tamin_pills_really_work.php
m
i oxidants.htm
Oh yeah , Vitamins may not work and make corporations rich.
http://www.diet-blog.com/archives/2005/08/05/do_v
List of most powerful antioxidant fruit and vegetable.
http://www.mdsupport.org/library/antiox.html
http://my.webmd.com/content/Article/104/107639.ht
http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/supplements/a/ant
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5489179/
Any substance that, when withdrwn from, gives you headaches, the sweats and severe drowsiness can be classified as a toxin to the body. Likewise, caffeine is habit-forming, intensifies feelings of anxiety, can produce insomnia, stains teeth etcetera.
SEO Copywriter. Just Say ON
including protection against heart disease
I don't mean to spoil the joy for all the coffee lovers out there, but how exactly do increased cholesterol level and blood pressure protect from heart disease? Also, while coffee itself might have some health benefits, the stuff consumed with it (loads of sugar/or sugar substitutes, all kinds of artificial creamers, and a donut or two) probably cancels them out.
"You mortals are so obtuse." -Q
So does this mean that Triple Chocolate Caramel Starbucks® crap I drink is actually healthy?
No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame. - Initial
Now I only wait for the scientists to confirm my lifelong suspicion, that chocolate (especially chocolate covered wafer bars) is a healthy vegetable product (chocolate is made from fruit, isn't it?) that should be a cornerstone of a healthy diet.
It's good to know that such great work comes from studies funded by such unbiased groups as the American Cocoa Research Institute.
Perhaps similar studies funded by Hustler and Blueboy might find benefits in swallowing versus spitting?
That's funny because everytime I drink coffee, I feel like my heart is going to explode.
... because I drink a hell of alot of it.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
you could say the same of chocolate
...BLACK coffee ...NO sugar
;-P
except that chocolate, like coffee, is consumed with enough sugar and dairy to counteract any benefits you might be getting and then some
so bring on the coffee!
not so attractive anymore, eh?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
such things have been reported of coffee since Asia Minor first learned of it how many centuries ago. can't be believed, i suppose, until people in white lab-coats tell you it's true. it's important to be reminded, though. (forgive the cynicism.)
And if you REALLY want a health benefit, switch to decaf. Sorry, I know everyone wants to pretend what they do is fine or healthy and wants to find that reason why, but some things are just bad for you(Fast food for example, although we all eat it anyways). Just because coffee has anti-oxidants doesn't mean that it will prevent cancer. Caffeine is pro-inflammatory, so most likely those anti-oxidants will be reducing damage of the caffeine.
Don't wanna give up caffeine? No problem. Still want to reduce your risk of cancer, have some real food. Steam some kale, have an apple, some berries(Not Apple-Berry Poptarts, not the same thing). Just add a few veggies or fruits to your daily food intake and you'll be a lot better for it. Cut something out, or reduce, and you'll be even better. Don't have to give up coffee/caffeine, but it isn't some miracle health food, and don't think of it as such.
Too much of a good thing is NEVER beneficial. ... Except sex, that is.
Chafing.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Junk food does not make you fat, it's all down to fresh OJ, smoking can help you to live longer (assuming you do not get lung cancer) and being in a road accident helps reduce the signs of aging.
-AT
Working in a DevOps shop is like playing in a band made up entirely of keytarists.
are a much healthier source of caffiend.
/. to stay awayke, myself.)
(I read
another stereotype that ive seen people display is that "natural" means good for you.
I have bad karma....
Open source is heavenly, Microsoft is the devil, SCO is going to hell
In my civilian life I had a reputation of drinking more coffee than most people could stomach without puking.
In my military career I have a reputation of drinking more coffee than most people can stomach without puking.
So, lets recap. The potential positive side effects of drinking coffee are as follows:
Rduces risk of cancer
Reduces risk of heart disease
Reduces risk of type II Diabetes
Can increase alertness and improve short-term recall.
May fight Parkinson's s disease
May fight Alzeihmer's disease
May reduce the risk of cirrhosis of the liver among heavy drinkers.
Fights asthma in some circumstances
Antioxidents keep you looking young
One or two of these pro's are not from this article but you can do a search (i.e. coffee alzeihmer's on google) and find some for yourself.
So, 4 to 5 cups a day is a good thing.
In truth my 24 oz X-LG coffee each morning hardly counts as one coffee, but now we can see why I'm such a healthy stud.
Sell not see.
Blah should of used the preview button...
The first fricken thing I ever get on a hospital meal tray is a cup of coffee!!! And I have been in the hospital enough to have a good spectrum of meals. Coffee, no matter what is else on the tray, there is always Coffee!
mmmmmmm
"What we do in life echoes in eternity." Maximus Decimus Meridius
The fact that Keith Richards is still alive after 40 years of heavy smoking, drinking and drug use, whereas people who take immaculate care of their health get cancer in their 30's and 40's has led me to conclude that most medical studies are bullshit and that your likelihood of contracting disease is about 95% genetics, 5% environment. Bah.
"College is purely a financial investment...pay X to get a return of Y. Don't expect to find wisdom there." -JK
Don't forget the hemlock. It's also natural, so it's good for you. Just ask Socrates.
Heroscape, it's like legos combined with anachronistic wargames.
hemlock is natural too :)
until we get research proving the long-obvious health benefits of mountain dew.
It seems like the bullet list pros are more related to caffeine than antioxidants. Of course I also like the irony of an article pointing out that coffee has antioxidants and that a risk of consumption is the possibility of elevating blood pressure. The number one killer in America is heart disease, not cancer.
Heroscape, it's like legos combined with anachronistic wargames.
starbucks llc has acquired slashdot.org from it's previous corporate parents
so welcome to slashbucks
cappuccino for nerds. macchiato that matters.
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Rubber dolls still don't count. :)
Quack, quack.
The actual evidence of *any* health benefit from dosing people with anti-oxidants (as opposed to fruits and vegetebles, which contain many other things besides anti-oxidants, for example fiber) is non-existent.
= Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1603028 0&query_hl=5
In fact, it essentially proves that anti-oxidants either provide no benefit, or are bad for you.
Vitamin E and beta-carotene are both quite potent anti-oxidants (free radical scavengers.) Others are more or less potent, but Vitamin E and BC are both potent enough that you would see an effect if there is one.
Vitamin E has demonstrably no benefit in fighting heart disease. But thanks for playing!
Beta Carotene actually makes lung cancer appreciably *more* lethal - there is a good chance that this is because it is an anti-oxidant, and that pro-oxidants fight cancer.
READ THIS REVIEW BEFORE YOU ARGUE WITH ME:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd
The evidence that bleeding yourself with leeches is actually good for you is *far* more compelling than anything that has ever been delivered for anti-oxidants.
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
Antioxidents are a new fad, and while we might stipulate there is some validity to eating antioxidants, its a mistake to equate antioxidents in any particular food as being significant. The problem is that these studies never take into account total antioxidant intake in the diet.
For example, while coffee and tea do have antioxidents in them, you'd have to drink dozens of gallons to equal what you get from a little bit of oregano (one of the foods with the highest antioxidant contant,far higher than blueberries). In fact, there are many many foods that have giant doses of antioxidents in them. If you look at your actual overall diet, it is unlikely that coffee would ever be a significant source of antioxidents. And if in fact it is, and you are concerned about antioxidents in your diet, you'd do better to add a higher source into your diets.
For example, cherries, blueberries, dried plums, artichokes, russet potatoes, red cabbage, walnuts, pecans, hazelnuts, cinnamon, and cloves.
I've also noticed how people rationalize their decisions by only accepting consenting views as correct.
...and the list goes on..
Let's see:
Wine is good for you
Coffee is also good
Smoke has also studies showing how good it is for you
Marijuana is a medicine!
Chocolade has health benefits from cocoa
Beer is good too!
Seems scientists aren't too objective these days, or their research is misrepresented and misinterpreted.
Damn, that means that my morning required waking medicine plus my daily apres work stress reliever plus my sleeping in the dumpy apartment that I live in will mean I can continue doing so for many many many years.... what a hoot.
>>Coffee is a naturally grown product, thus does not have bad influence on your body
... and coca... and various nightshades... and peyote... and psylocybine mushrooms... and fugu... and ... and...
Just like opium
Come off it, you fucking hippie. Just because it grows out of the ground doesn't make it not bad for you.
L
This article gets tossed around over and over. It looks like Starbucks' PR firm is doing their job.
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
I don't eat fast food. Additionally you may be interested to know that 'anyways' is not actually a word.
I don't disagree with you, but I wouldn't say antioxidants are a new fad. People have been pushing them for at least a decade.
Heroscape, it's like legos combined with anachronistic wargames.
I drink a lot of coffee, and my stomach doesn't like it. I always drink water a glass of water every time I drink a cup of coffee; otherwise I start to feel bad.
I lot of our daily consumptions have a good and a bad side. Just because coffee appears to have a good amount of antioxidants, it still has a lot of negative side effect. This invalidates the articles claim that coffee might be used as a health drink.
It is not logical to conclude, that just because an ingredient has some good effects its healthy to eat or drink. If you start to send the signal; drink coffee to be healthy, you miss the point. Vegetables are much healthier in regards to antioxidants. It is mentioned briefly in the article but focus is on coffee as a health drink.
-:) Oh no - not again.
www.rednebula.com
And I still tremble more with every cup of coffee I drink. I now upped it to 1 per 15 minutes during my waking time, which also increased to 24 hours a day. I do not understand these researchers with their unfounded claims (-:
My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
Two problems here:
1. reporters have to come up with a catchy headline,
2. people only read the headlines.
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
I'd like to see some documentation for that statement that you seemed to pull out from under your tin-foil hat. I have never heard ANY evidence to even remotely suggest that dehydration causes cancer. Honestly, show me even one article froma reputable scientific journal, and I will deign to argue this point with you, otherwise you are wasting our time with nonsensical ideas, like pyramid power and homeopathy.
I'm fairly certain that I'm right- I know the literature, since I am an oncology surgeon.
..........FULL STOP.
Oh yeah , Vitamins may not work
I think you mean vitamin pills, not vitamins. If vitamins didn't work, we'd all be quite dead by now. That said, the link is shit. They're just taking quotes out of context to appeal to people with no medical background. Or, the people putting it together don't have the training to know what the speakers mean.
There's things in food other than vitamins? We can't live on vitamin pills? Even TPN bags won't keep a person around forever without real food? SHOCKING!
Sorry to come off so rude, but that is among the single most stupidly misleading pop-science articles I've ever seen. It's the typical pandering view of "Oh, those scientists, what with their book learnin and all. Perhaps someday they'll catch up to our folk wisdom." It's the same thing that fuels the annual , "OMG, leechs have medical uses after all!" articles.
Did that scientist tell you about all the bad naturally occuring substances as well? Like ... I don't know, poison ...
No, I am not an English major. My posts are subject to typos and incorrect grammar. Do not expect perfection.
Do you mind explaining, just what exactly that is. Do you mean it causes inflammation? - Please leave the nutrition/health advice up to those who know what they're talking about.
Whoa, and I thought 4-5 cups a day was pushing it.
Weeks of coding saves hours of planning.
I didn't know there actually is people who believe that! I always thought it was a joke.
Mr. Cash202... Not everything which is naturally grown, is good for you. Most narcotic substances, for instance, are naturally grown. Alcohol, too. And formic acid (HCOOH). And amanita muscarita (also known as toadstool). Fat, my friend, is also grown naturally, but shouldn't be considered a very good diet.
Your body doesn't know whether a substance is natural or chemical. All chemical substances are natural as well - they're only made natural in a laboratory. They aren't supernatural. Your body is not tuned to eat every substance "out there".
Roses are #FF0000, violets are #0000FF, all my base are belong to you
Also, we all know that coffee is a popular geek fuel. I think we'd be lacking in several technological advances and overall societary productivity if it weren't for this effervescent liquid of life. Et sepum e vitarium!
This is nonsense but I'm going to need a cup of coffee before I can explain why.
Certain companies have been campaigning against vitamins over the last couple of years by performing very dubious 'studies' to feed into the media. The intention is to make vitamins sound dangerous, lethal, unhealthy and ineffective to prepare the public for government legislation to repress availabily. It is junk science.
Big corporations don't want people taking vitamins because they do work. Because they work, they stand to make far less money out of drugs.
You have to "trust" vitamins, or else you're dead. That's why they're called vitamins. It is a fact that large numbers of doctors are vitamin deficient.
The question is, why would people even think the worth of vitamins is in just antioxidation? They do alot more than that. Studies on vitamins reflect the quality of the supplement more than anything else. Many supermarket brands are so poorly made that they don't do anything. High quality materials give a very different story.
Selentium and zinc deficiency are nearly systemic in many countries. They are critically important to preventing cancer and oxidation.
Even US government statistics show dangerous mineral deficiency is widespread in the US population.
If you wonder why the average PHB loves Microsoft, it's for the same reason the average person thinks taking vitamins will kill them.
More green teas, raw, leafy green vegetables to keep the body alkaline and reduce the risk of disease.
... all of which are negated by the fat and sugar added by Starbucks
Indeed, studies have shown that drinking hemlock twice a day greatly decreases risk of beheading.
Not to mention that you don't go paranoid like krank users, and you don't turn into a freakin' zombie (doom style) with prolonged ab/use! And it tastes good! Less filling! NO CALORIES!
Slashdot editors have often been deceived by pseudo-science. One Slashdot story was about a new method of data compression that could compress data much more than other compression methods. Of course, it later was found to be completely false.
Some coffee company P.R. person was successful in making this study of little importance into a major news story.
--
Faith-based lying? Faith-based killing?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
let me get this straight... burnt foods are LESS carcinogenic than non-burnt foods???
The bits on the bus go on and off... on and off... on and off...
Moderator, how the hell is parent "Insightful"? That's got to be one of the dumbest things I've read today, showing a remarkable lack of insight.
"The research - which was funded by the American Cocoa Research Institute"
What could they possible have to gain by coffee being a health drink?
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value. Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - )
That you might as well eat and drink whatever you like 'cept do it in moderation. Like mother always said - you should eat a balanced diet.
...
Nick
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
Coffee reduces risk of liver cancer:= Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1609175 8&query_hl=1
= Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1609099 9&query_hl=1
= Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1603270 2&query_hl=1
= Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1571396 3&query_hl=1
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd
Coffee increases risk of lung cancer, while decaf decreases it:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd
Coffee reduces risk of breast cancer in BRCA1 and BRCA2 mutation carriers (they didn't test decaf)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd
Decaf reduces risk of rectal cancer:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd
Look at me! I'm healthy!
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Caffeine is an alkaloid. Alkaloids were invented by plants to slow being eaten by insects. Caffeine does not kill insects, it just prevents them from eating much of the plant. Not all poisons kill.
In the process of getting over it I learned that a massive number of people suffer ( silently ) in North America and the UK from chronic insomnia. I don't mean an occasional night without sleep that is slept off the next day, but chronic troubles getting and staying asleep.
A large number of reasons are lifestyle related. Caffeine use, being over-weight, bad sleep habits, and the way many of us live our lives.
As the article for this thread shows a lot of Americans like to drink a lot of coffee.
Americans also take in a significant amount of "hidden" caffeine through iced tea beverages, chocolates, cocoa, soft drinks ( 2 sodas == 1 cup of coffee ) and other drinks. Often Americans will consume these significant caffeine sources at later times in the day when they would not dare to have coffee or hot tea.
Coffee, on a regular basis, over years is also very hard on the human stomach and contributes to an early decline in digestive power which leads to a tougher time getting the nutrients a human body needs.
It is also a very environmentally destructive crop, severely depleting the soil where it is grown. A friend told me that South American farmers call it the "Vampire Crop".
If you want a concentrated source of antioxidants without caffeine try taking a tablespoon of organic ( to avoid getting pesticide residues ) citrus zest ( finely grated peel - the part of the peel with the color ) a week:
http://www.prevention.com/article/0,5778,s1-3-71-1 08-5616-1,00.html?
Fresh aromatic herbs area also a good source of concentrated antioxidants and cancer fighters. Use basil. It is cheap in season. It is basically a weed, is easily grown in a garden or in a pot in an apartment.
Eating cruciferous vegetables like the broccoli in Chinese food ( yay! ) will give you plenty of antioxidants. Other cruciferous vegetables that help are cabbage, collards, kale, mustard greens etc.
If you have regular trouble sleeping either with falling asleep, staying asleep, spontaneously getting up early, or not feeling rested see either a neurologist or a pulmonologist to rule out physical causes. Sleep apena is the number one physical cause and is mostly due to the weight problem Oceania is experiencing. People accumulate so much excess weight that some of it ends up in the throat region with the result of tissue sagging downwards while they sleep temporarily blocking their flow of air. The flow is unblocked with the brain forcing a brief awakening, often many times a night, often without the person knowing. Being overweight is not the only cause of sleep apena, but it accounts for the vast majority of cases.
The methods used to treat sleep apena are not pleasant. Avoid surgery. It has been found to only be 25% effective. However, losing weight can be very effective from individual to individual.
Like I wrote earlier most of sleeplessness is lifestyle related.
In other areas of our lives bad habits and stress are keeping many, many people awake.
Only use sleep medications in the short term.
Many are addictive and many ( not all ) only provide benefits for several weeks, this is true even for many of the prescription drugs.
Cognitive therapy has proven to be more effective than drugs in managing insomnia over the long term. It is cheap, shows results quickly and can be often be done on one's own after a little help.
One of the best books about improving sleep, getting rid of insomnia and getting off of medication for sleep was written by a Harvard psychologist who developed and studied his program over the course 10 years.
It combines the most effective( and prove
According to this paper coffee contributes majority of acrylamide intake, and increases the risk for cancer.
KY
The Moore-Murphy Law: The number of things that will go wrong will double every 2 years.
Dude, even as conspiracy theories go, I've read better. Yours is based on... what? That you basically postulate that (A) any doctor is a murderer and con artist, and that (B) anything said by a doctor must be some covert attempt by a world-wide conspiracy to cover up the truth.
Any actual facts to base those crackpot theories on? I'm not seing any, other than some vague allusions to "human nature" and "obvious (fiscally beneficial) reasons"... that you fail to actually mention.
You want to discuss financial benefits? How about the financial benefits of selling a cure. If anyone patented a medicine that just cures cancer, they'd have a monopoly on it for 20 years. They'd make a bloody fortune.
You want to actually discuss basic human behaviour? How about the fact that each year a _lot_ of doctors, pharmacists, nurses, pharma corp managers, etc, die of cancer, AIDS, CJ, and other incurable diseases? Some contracted in the course of treating their patients.
You want to tell me that _any_ conspiracy can make one just prefer to die in pain, over 3 years, rather than just cure themselves, if that was possible? We're talking _death_. There are no fiscal benefits that would make millions of people worldwide go "you know, rather than lose that kinda money I'll just die." How about their children or other relatives? You want to tell me that _all_ those mothers would rather watch their children suffer and _die_, than research a cure for it?
You want a world-wide medical conspiracy? How about countries which didn't (and some still don't) even have medical insurance as a private business? Or all those communist countries where everything was owned by the state and which had their own independent research? How come _those_ didn't research those "obvious" cures?
I know at least one crackpot easter-european dictator even funded research in some "water of life" (as in, "fountain of youth") bullshit, because he was getting old and affraid to die. _That_ is human nature for you. As I've said, noone wants to die. Yet you want me to believe that all those thousands of party officials in the USSR or China, which personally had some of those diseases, or whose relatives had them, they too preferred to die than interfere with the USA pharma companies' profits?
"it's not particularly paranoid unless you have undergone some sort of brainwashing"
Actually that _is_ one of the tell-tale symptoms of paranoia. If you think everyone who doesn't believe your crack-pot theories has been "brainwashed", there's your clue that you're hallucinating.
"He'll generate more support for the theory he's arguing against by arguing against it than currently exists, would be my guess, since he's clearly supporting an effort to eliminate such evidence - for obvious (fiscally beneficial) reasons."
Dude, let's get one thing straight: you haven't presented _any_ evidence, much less established anything as "obvious". You just threw some insults around ("murderer and con artist"), and committed more fallacies than I can be bothered to count. Including again and again, including in the quoted paragraph, a mixture of "appeal to motives", "argumentum ad lazarum" (the ones with the money must automatically be wrong), and "poisoning the well". Look them up on Wikipedia, I can't be arsed to link to them this time.
So _of_ _course_, between (A) a science presenting verifiable experiments to base its conclusions on, and (B) some crackpot who doesn't present _anything_ but basically a "they must be murderers and part of a world-wide conspiracy because they are a successful industry" tantrum, I'll choose to believe the side with the actual data every time.
Not because of being brainwashed, not because of supporting some conspiracy efforts, but simply because you haven't presented _anything_ to support your paranoid theories on. Show me some actual evidence of people being murdered by their doctors, and _then_ I might believe your claim that it's an industry of murderers. But otherwise it's your personal hallucinations about "human nature" versus a mountain of verifiable scientiffic data.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
sorry, haven't had my morning coffee yet...
A goal is a dream with a deadline
HAZAA!
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
According to later studies, there is no acrylimide/cancer link:
1 282003.html
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/press/releases/press0
Nothing like fear mongering. Have you heard about the new FCC modem tax?
Clear, Dark Skies
I strongly suspect that the reason that coffee drinkers tend to have a lower incidence of colon cancer has more to do with the less desirable effects of coffee. People who have diseases that predispose them to have colon cancer, such as ulcerative colitis, can't tolerate coffee as well as healthy individuals do. I suspect the same is true of many other conditions, such as irritable bowel disease.
It makes one wonder if many of these other claims can't be disregarded as well. Perhaps the fact that you can drink lots of coffee simply means you have a robust constitution that can tolerate more abuse. It doesn't mean you should go ahead and abuse it.
It is very easy to show statistical correlation, but not nearly so easy to show causation. They aren't one in the same.
-All that is gold does not glitter - Tolkien
www.ra
Lubricate everything properly and chafing won't be an issue.
Of course, lots of foreplay works even better than some KY, but you probably don't need much foreplay for your girlfriend. (NSFW)
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
...like I like my coffee. Hot and black!
.....the Sphinx would be proud.....
"Use cases are fairy tales..." I. S. 2005
Repeating twice, "heart desease and cancer" in the same paragraph/context sounds to me like Alzheimer.
My 2 cts.
Grind the beans fresh, and drink the coffee right away.
Also: green tea is even better than fresh ground coffee.
It messes with your addrenalin and nervous system, I'm in the process of giving it up (into my second day now).
Just because it grows out of the ground doesn't make it not bad for you.
/.ers (hippies:)) have a naive view that the world was a paradise before we had all this evil technology. It's easy to knock pesticides when you have record crop production. It's easy to think wetlands (swamps) are great when you don't know what a malaria outbreak is. It's easy to think pharmacutical companies are evil and "herbal remedies" are the answer when you've had all of your innoculations. It's easy to say growing coffee damages the land when your livelyhood doesn't depend on it as your only cash crop. It's easy to think people should stop developing land when you live in a three bedroom house. It's easy to think we need to re-introduce predators to the countryside when you live in the city. It's easy to want "natural" beaches when you're spending two weeks a year at a beachfront casino. This list could go on forever.
Exactly. And just because something doesn't grow out of the ground doesn't make it not good for you. Molecules are molecules whether they come from a tomato or a vitamin pill. But, for some reason, a lot of people and most
Starbucks, Taster's Choice, and Juan Valdez.
Please drink more coffee.
Regards from Costa Rica.
The perfect sig is a lot like silence, only louder
Coffee is a naturally grown product, thus does not have bad influence on your body
Curare is also a naturally grown product, and it's influence on your body is paralysis, leading to death as you no longer breathe.
I'll let you decide if that influence is good or bad... personally, I'm thinking it ain't great.
You can't take the sky from me...
The article focusses on the combined factors of per capita consumption and antioxident concentration. If a few more people ate dates everyday, it would surpass coffee.
I wonder what ranking coffee has compared to other foods when concentration of antioxidants is the only factor?
All chemical substances are natural as well - they're only made natural in a laboratory. They aren't supernatural.
They aren't natural, they are artificial.
As in: Not produced by nature (meaning that no natural processes exist to biodegrade the substance since no organism has evolved to deal with the substance).
Artificial chemicals are often a health risk and subject to great concern. But that doesn't mean that the opposite (natural substances) are intrinsically safe, as the GP-poster believed.
You can't take the sky from me...
For the past few years I have been drinking at least a pot of coffee a day, and generally about 2 pots a day.
Based on this research, not only will I probably never get cancer or heart disease but I am probably bullet proof at this point too. I think Kieth Richards has met his match. Now, where did I leave that pair of tights?
Heh. Dude, seriously, go look up "fallacy" in a dictionary. It has nothing to do with "phalus" or "phalic" (btw, that's how that's written, not "fallic", but I digress.)
It's also something that's a topic of formal logic, and dates back at least to Aristotle. So, yes, if you don't want to trust Wikipedia on what those fallacies mean, you have a lot more reputable sources at your disposal.
So the wisecrack about "Wiki posters' Freudian tendancies" is just more prime example of talking without having a clue what you're talking about.
"I'm sorry, what exactly was your point?"
That fiscal incentives and basic human behaviour are pointing in the exact other direction than these crackpot "doctors and pharma companies make money out of murdering people and keeping them ill" theories. I.e., that the very "facts" being thrown around as basis for those conspiracy-theory conclusions are false.
"Of all your bluster, I would choose this one statement to challenge. Show me - no, screw that, prove it to yourself, never mind me - that you're not brainwashed."
Guess I'm getting good at this paranoia stuff, because I've actually expected that to be the only phrase you'll choose to latch onto. That's just the kind of diversion I was expecting as an answer: quickly dodging any actual facts or legitimate questions as "[endless blather claiming science and moral equivalency nonsense]" and getting to the usual "ah-ha! so you are brainwashed!" part. (Here phrased as "Prove that you're not brainwashed", but not that far.)
That's usually the problem with paranoia, and why psychoanalysis isn't very good against it. Any attempt to point out the flaws in that conspiracy theory just gets you filed anyhwere between "so you're brainwashed too" and "so you're a conspirator too".
Anyway, even skipping the part about Burden Of Proof (you're the one who made some claims, including the brainwashing one, so it's up to _you_ to prove them), it would be a straw man anyway. You've latched to something which, other than an ad-hominem fallacy, bears no relevance to the real issue that these conspiracy theories invariably fail to prove their case by logic. That's the core issue there.
I expect a conclusion, especially a blanket damnation of a whole profession, be based on actual data and actual logic. Without fallacies this time, since those are textbook examples of _failing_ to use logic. Between two arguments, (A) one which can present its data and logic, and where you can verify either, and (B) one which fails to do either, I'll just choose to believe the first one. That's all.
The only mention of brainwashing there was basically as "you don't need to be brainwashed to want to see some actual data and logic supporting a conclusion." You want to tell me that the non-brainwashed way would be to give up logic or something?
Either way, regardless of whether I'm brainwashed or not, you still failed to support those damning conclusions you wave around. Do that, or don't, but I don't see the point in getting side-tracked into debating the "brainwashing" straw-man instead.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
a hangover already knows this about coffee!
---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
Actually, I don't have a good Java joke that's appropriate, but I'm sure there's one out there somewhere.
Perhaps something involving a claim that strong typing reduces ulcers and gives you strong fingers. Or maybe something that likens the banishing of pointers to the anti-oxidants? OK, that's probably reaching a bit, but I bet there's something good out there.
Signatures are a waste of bandwi (buffering...)
How'd I know that's how you'd respond?
I assume you'll be posting a link to my picture on a regular basis. Well, have fun. Let me know if you ever get a life.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
Well, for every study, there have to be exceptions. Both my wife and I drink between 2 and 4 cups daily, and have for years. (Grow up in the military, and you really don't have a choice). I've had stage 4 colon cancer twice (1984 and 1999), and she's been a type 2 diabetic since 1993. Go figure!
The only other drug like this generally available is Nicotine. Sharpens you up, makes your thinking clearer and doesn't impair judgement.
The first government in the world to begin a public perception campaign to prevent the use of Nicotine? Why, that would be the Nazi Party. Why would they not want their populace thinking clearly, I wonder. . ?
Personally, I don't use either drug. I've never smoked or felt the need to. (It's pretty hard to find non-corporate tobacco these days. No big surprise there. If you can't stop people from smoking, then you'd better make sure the stuff they're smoking contains a ton of extra poisons in order to off-set any advantages.)
--And I have found recently that caffeine has changed how it affects me so I've stopped drinking it for the time being. I miss coffee, but in the last year especially, I've found I've gained access to a lot of new emotional bandwidth, (I don't really know how else to describe it; being a guy is getting complicated these days as the human race continues rapidly to wake up in interesting ways!), and I seem to need to work on managing this before I can go adding extra octane to my brain.
Without the coffee, I find I'm much more steady. Not quite my old self, but definitely better. Heck, with the java, I felt like I was pregnant or something. Sheesh!
-FL
you know, that pain in the stomach, that nauseating feeling you have when you think in having again too much sex and remember what you did the last time you had too much sex.
Does this explain the dozens of crusty old coffee drinkers and cigarette smokers? I've always wondered how some people could survive into their 70s on a diet of black coffee and Pall Malls.
In other words, the ISO-standard Slashdot way out of "I was only trolling" or "you shouldn't have taken it seriously." (In this case accusing someone of murder _and_ fraud. Ha ha, humorous stuff.) And complete with the "get a life" part too.
... get a life. You are downright laffable as posted..."
/. to get attention.
*shrug* It would probably even work if it was at least new or original. That is, if it wasn't the standard "I can't argue the real point, so I'll insult you instead" kinda message that can be found in almost every thread on Slashdot.
The problem, even if I were to take it seriously, is:
"You need to get out and have some fun, not sit around trying to impress a completely apathetic couch potato with your l33t s0ph0m0ric deb4te 5killz
You mean, like you're going out and having fun instead of sitting around and trolling Slashdot with conspiracy theories? Oh, wait, you aren't out having fun either.
So here's the idea: if you're gonna try to pull the ol' traditional "but I'm still superior and you suck for arguing with me" thing at the end, at least try to show at least _some_ intelligence in it. Saying basically "but you suck because you do the exact same thing I do" is outright pathetic.
Take your own advice: get a life. Go out and have fun. Might even beat having to act like a spoiled kindergarten retard on
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
1) Figure out the perfect balance of caffeine and milk.
2) Genetically modify cows to produce caffeinated milk.
3) ???
4) Profit.
It's simpler to say a person could theoretically drink one shot of espresso per pound that they weigh and still have a 50% chance of surviving. :)
I know that a kilogram is really 2.2 pounds, but 2.2 * (80-100 mg) = 176-220 mg (ignoring significant figures), which averages out to about 200 mg, so it's even better!
Now you understand the real reason Americans will never shift from pounds to kilograms!
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
Now if they can just make it taste like chocolate!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Has anyone been to Scranton? A hotbed of research it is not. I wouldn't take anything to heart coming from there.
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/01/0 6/1426228&tid=14
Tracy Johnson
Old fashioned text games hosted below:
http://empire.openmpe.com/
BT
Different AC. Seems that you have a fan club.
I know that I'm your #1 fan.
...due to psychopathic behaviour of caffeine withdrawal victims. I know that if I were to ever quit coffee cold turkey, I would make the BTK Killer look like a Boy Scout on ritalin...
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
Hey, I'm just following in Voltaire's footsteps (who is fabled to have drank gallons per day). Got 6 cups measured? Then allow me to open my gullet for that sweet stream of brown nectar PLEAAASE. A little ringin' in the ears and facial flushing never stoped anyone! Besides, it functions to alleviate muscle fatigue and increase sexual vigor...or so I've heard :(
an article from The Independent which would seem to indicate that coffee has numerous health benefits, and could be construed to be a 'health enema'. From the article: "'A study has found that coffee contributes more antioxidiots - which have been linked with ....blah, blah, blah... have been linked to ...blah, blah, blah. Studies have associated coffee enemas with a reduced risk of liver and colon cancer.
I am reminded of episode 608 of South Park. Where Cartman bet he could shove food up his ass and crap out his mouth. And he started a fad, interorectogestion. Martha Stewart even showed how she could shove a turkey up her ass. Coffee as a health drink? I think not. Coffee as a health enema? Try it. You may be pleasantly surprised.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
Hot cocoa has three times more antioxidants than coffee or tea and doesn't taste like a cup of ass juice.
I'm partial to my herbal, all natural, organic hemlock....
-MrLogic
Even water can be bad. A few extreme event deaths such as marathons have been attributed to drinking too much water and depleting electrolytes.
The thing is when people drink coffee, they do crazy things like drink a pot a day. Not very good for your blood pressure or your stomach.
I think reports like this are very misleading... just like the "wine is good for you!" So yeah, many people will justify drinking an entire bottle.
Drink a lot of coffee and... you're wired.
Stick with green tea if you want the benefits of antioxidants - coffee is too harsh.
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
First off, thanks for your thoughts on these very important facets of modern life!
;) Here is merely an interesting anecdote about coffee, however...
There are two things that I became a fan of and in doing so did the usual geek thing and read all about it... coffee, and sex.
The half-life of caffeine (the amount of time it takes your body to rid itself of half of an ingested amount) can vary from 4 (8 month old fetus) to 100ish (late-term pregnant woman OR woman on the pill!) hours, averaging about 5-6 hours. (google "caffeine half-life" for more info) Obviously, the other half sticks around a lot longer, as it too goes by the half-life rule (and so on... and so on...). So you get a cumulative effect over time. This should be kept in mind.
Last night I actually did have trouble sleeping. Whether or not this has to do with my (very moderate) coffee intake, I have found that meditation helps me get to sleep more often than not. I have a CD from this guy which has helped in this regard. FYI to fellow caffeinated geeks.
If antioxydant is a topic that interest you -- you would want to read this too: http://www.mercola.com/blog/2005/aug/29/coffee_ame ricas_leading_source_of_antioxidants
Hot cocoa has three times more antioxidants than coffee or tea and doesn't taste like a cup of ass juice.
...
I think you mean Hot cocoa, rich in sugar and milk solids
The optimal drink would be a steaming hot cup of drinking chocolate, using dark chocolate (not milk chocolate), and perhaps mixed with coffee.
As to taste - you do know that there are many types of coffee blends, right? Heck, my local grocery store carries about 26 major blends/beans.
It's up to you what it tastes like. You can even add sugar-free syrups to it, if you don't want to much sugar (generally a bad idea) in your diet.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Do the antioxidant levels change with the roasting levels (rise or fall)?
Has anyone ever tried to drink non-roasted coffee and survived to tell the tale?
But, for some reason, a lot of people and most /.ers (hippies:)) have a naive view that the world was a paradise before we had all this evil technology.
/.ers hate technology....
Since all
Ever drank a strong cup of coffee, then gone to the bathroom? Yes, you definitely have. Smelled that funky-smoked-rotten-foody odor in your urine? That's exactly what dithiothreitol, a potent reducing agent, smells like. 'Reducing agent' is chemistry speak for 'antioxidant.' For some time I've actually been casually wondering for some time whether drinking a pot of a potent sulfhydryl reducing agent was having an effect on me, good or bad. Apparently good?
Hand Lotion!
I believe our bathroom here would beg to differ on the positive effects of coffee.
Your comment seems excessively angry and insulting, especially for a third party not involved inthe discussion. And I don't think I even mentioned the idea of any conspiracies, so I'm not sure why you have become so inflammed about my post. Do you have a personal reason/experience for the hatred of the medical community - I'm just curious.
As far as a cure for cancer putting me out of business goes, then I would be happy. I would gladly switch my talents to fixing up trauma patients, since trying to keep 12 year kids alive can be emotionally difficult.
As far as suing widows and orphans - doctors don't sue people - at least I've never even heard of any. Just what would a doctor "sue" them for?
..........FULL STOP.
It is very easy to show statistical correlation, but not nearly so easy to show causation. They aren't one in the same.
Quite true. However, I wonder if the relationship here isn't even simpler. Coffee makes you poop, because caffiene stimulates the bowels (this is also why people that have those diseases can't take it). It's also been shown that people that don't frequently evacuate their bowels have a higher incidence of colon cancer. This is probably due to the fact that cancer-causing chemicals stay in the bowels longer.
It seems to me that the simplest explanation is more likely correct. People don't need more coffee, really... they just need to sh*t more.
Micro$0ft funded the research along with a major coffee producing monopoly!!
This is my sig.
Oh man, I will have to start drinking something else...
"Antioxidants help to rid the body of harmful free radicals, destructive molecules that damage cells and DNA."
Technically free radicals aren't molecules. Free radicals are actually electrons a molecule gets rid of in order to stabilize itself.
.. I live in Kentucky and still get chafing!
Actually, psilocybin has no harmful physical effects. It can have the same psychological effects as any other hallucinogen (i.e. you can be traumatized if you're unprepared or you have a latent mental illness), but the only danger magic mushrooms pose to the body is the chance that you might them get confused with a different species of mushroom that is poisonous.
AFAIK, opium also has no harmful effects short of overdose. Morphine addicts can live long, healthy lives as long as they can control their dose and don't have to do anything dangerous to get it.
You're entirely correct, however, that these properties have nothing to do with whether a drug is naturally occurring or man-made, and I share your frustration with hippies who think the closer something is to their idea of "nature", the healthier it must be.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
For the longest time, the coffee industry has claimed that coffee lowers the risk of colon cancer, gallstones and cirrhosis of the liver, and also contains more antioxidants than green tea. So the idea itself isn't really news.
When you look at experiments and research, however, you'll see that coffee has been shown to produce the carcinogen 3,4 benzopyrene when roasted. Two other possible carcinogens have also been found in coffee. And one study showed a link between coffee intake and pancreatic cancer.
Besides the debate over whether it causes or prevents cancer, coffee is usually served with milk and sugar, and those are not healthy. It is also a stimulant on which you can become dependant and can wreak havoc on the nervous system.
A health drink, coffee is not.
I dunno about coffee and vitamin B levels; but as far as coffee and diabetes is concerned, it's probably a much better idea to be drinking the stuff rather than avoiding it. Throw in a little cinnamon with your drink, and you might even be able to consider it a powerful weapon against diabetes.
I also think coffee's association with heart disease is highly exaggerated.
I should point out that I do work in the industry; but I also drink 4-6 cups of the stuff each day, too.
Healthy coffee is green coffee. Published studies show that it contains upto four times the anti-oxidant levels found in green tea. Roasting destroys most of the anti-oxidants.
:)
In parts of the middle east, where coffee was orginially discovered, it is still being prepared by very mildly roasting the whole green beans and boiling after adding cardamom for spice, which makes for a very tasty drink.
I personally make my coffee by boiling the whole unroasted green beans. Most don't like the taste because of the bean taste to it. It's a completely different drink than the coffee you know, but if you get used to it you'll come to like it because of the rush it gives you as in the case of roasted coffee. However, the effect is milder and you don't get the nervousness associated with roasted coffee. The green bean can be boiled many times, maybe four or five times. You can add cardamom which makes the drink tastier.
You can get the green beans from major coffee shop suppliers. There are many types, you might like to try different ones to find your favoraute. My personal favoraute is Nicaraguan Maragogype. Good luck
I felt his word was more credible than mine, so I believed him. I do not do drugs, drink coffee or any of that, however you must be objective. If your always subjective, you will never see turth to all things and accomplish any progress.
No, everything that GROWS ISN'T good for you, however, not everything that grows is natural.
Currently, my word is just as much credible as yours (and I am going with mine, since I was told by a scientist). If you could provide me with a link with scientific data to proove otherwise, I will believe you.
Please enumerate any potentials of permanent physical harm or death from mescaline or psilocybin.
LRC, the best-read libertarian site on the web
Why would I want to eat poisonberries? Ralph Wiggum did that and he said it tastes like burning...
Caffeine has apparently the same effect on humans as it does on insects. It's a poison that in small quantities does not kill.
--
Trying to make one book explain all of life makes some people crazy enough to kill.
There are many poisons that don't kill. Caffeine disturbs the normal working of the central nervous system of both insects and humans.
Caffeine certainly does impair humans.
I've seen no evidence of that. Do you have proof for this fascinating claim?
"Long periods of abuse [of caffeine] can lead to detrimental effects [...]"
Yes, any drug can have negative side effects when abused for a long time. If you believe all drugs are therefore poisons, you are a crackpot.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.