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Bill Gates Speaks Out Against Next-Gen DVDs
jZnat writes "Although we all know that Microsoft hates Blu-Ray, Bill Gates doesn't seem to like HD-DVD either. Primarily, it seems, because Mr. Gates believes media storage on hard drives is likely to be the default standard sooner rather than later. From the interview: 'Well, the key issue here is that the protection scheme under Blu-Ray is very anti-consumer and there's not much visibility of that. The inconvenience is that the [MPAA] got too much protection at the expense of consumers and it won't work well on PCs. You won't be able to play movies and do software in a flexible way.'"
Is an interesting idea, but, for it too work there has to be a distorbution system in place, that means high bandwidth. I think disks will be around a lot longer then mr. Gates thinks.
I hate to admit it but, I actually agree w/ Billy on this one...
Come on. 60 gigs in less space than a twinkie. I cant see this prognostication being that far off, except that its ironic he makes claims about being anti-consumer while pushing his own flavor of DRM down our throats. *sigh*
I'm a little tea pot.
While Bill Gates talks about how content should be hard drive based, The ITMS actually lets you buy epsisodes of lost for $2.
If you are going to make a format irrelevant, provide a viable alternative Bill.
Is he kidding? Anti-Consumer? Kind of like a company that gets sued every other day for anti-competitive and monopolistic practices which are the definition of anti-consumer. Blu-Ray may be anti-consumer, I don't know, but that cause most definitely needs a spokesman that doesn't look like a pot yelling at a kettle.
What? Bill Gates thinks that the protection scheme under Blu-Ray is very anti-consumer? Is this the same Bill Gates who is responsible for the copy protection schema for Windows XP?
a better solution might be USB flash drive (suppose it is big enought to store high-quality movies). they are going to replace laser-based medias.
As for the Redmond round table: I just realized that every time I hear Microsoft open it's mouth these days, it's complaining or unhappy about something. Is this what a mastodon sounds like as it sinks into a tar pit?
So...confused...don't know which evil to side with...
PC owners might have a few problems, but they'll be easy to play on the new Playstation ! Sony's extra expense on the blu-ray drives has turned them into an exellent trojan horse against the pc, and maybe even against windows.
It is true that organizations are looking at blu-ray only to hedge their bets. Blu-ray can easily prevent people from properly using the format - it is loaded with an unprecidented amount of "control" technology that can be used to target or knock out particular hardware or software products. If I were a hardware or software vendor, I'd be very concerned about blu-ray. As a consumer, I'd be only more concerned - what if the disc I buy rejects my player or computer or software package? Instead of one simple standard like the classic CD, suddenly there are thousands of incompatibilities, all with the name "blu-ray". Crazy! I can foresee the side panel of blu-ray box, with a technology compatibility list 100 lines long. This is not what we need.
As a system that is loaded with patents and license agreements, you can bet that blu-ray will be well supported by industry licensees until the key patents start to expire. Then you can expect a mass-exodus to a new, yet unnamed "standard" that has more patent protection. Given the most of the patents involved are 3-10 years old, give Blu-Ray a 10 year life.
Funny how he was riding the HD-DVD parade all the way up until Warner Bros jumped ship this week, spelling pretty much the death of the format. Now, he's all about direct digital distribution? Sure optical media is going the way of the dodo, but Gates is very much flop-flopping here.
i agree with bill gates!
He is right in his view that the MPAA will back blue ray because of the anticonsumer copy protection in the format.
He is also right when he says that people is increasingly storing stuff in hard drives because they are competitive on the price per dollar side and they are much more reliable than the easily scratched current recordable DVDs.
He is mostly wrong about a lot of other stuff, but I have to give him this one.
When his defense asked, "Which computer has Jon Johansen trespassed upon?" the answer was: "His own."
Maybe. At this time there's still a factor of 100 or so difference in price/byte and a big performance differenc, too. Flash is great for portability but it has a long way to go before being the method of choice for archival storage of videos. Hard drive is already there.
...said all we need is 640K of RAM.
If Bill Gates is so angry, let him attempt the E^3. That is, E mbrace, E xtend and finally E xtinguish, on all non-conforming entities. After all, he still has loads of cash to spend.
Its DRM is Java-based.
Bill Gates can speak out against whatever he wishes. Until he considers who his audience is, it won't do very much.
The distributers of media want a format that is not-alterable. That way, there's not even the discussion of loss of data / corruption of data in transit. The consumers want a format that is not-alterable. If I buy a movie, I don't want to find that it's been "modified" rendering it useless, or worse yet, partially useful.
Sure, there is a market for downloading movies onto a hard drive, but realistically, hard drives fail, and I'll want a backup. DVD's may not be the best technology in the world, but it comes with a built-in feature, it is read-only. I don't want to be saddled with the responsibility for determining the validity of burnt DVDs, because I really can't do that for all of the films I intend to own. Especially when the previous expectation is for the PRODUCER of the content to produce copies of it for my consumption.
Any technology that is read-write could be overwritten, which isn't a pretty thought to consider when you just paid for the CONTENT on the media.
He may be Bill Gates, but I think he's right this time.
*ducks under the table*
I wonder how CD player and disk sales are doing? Last I heard both were flat or declining. Once people realized that they wanted their music on an iPod, the CD became an added hassle. The same process will occur with DVDs.
But DVDs won't die for 10-20 years because some collectors will be willing to pay handsomely for the "Extended Platinum Director's Super Secret Cut Anniversary Re-release edition with matching book-ends." What will occur is that fewer B-list titles will appear on DVD because video-on-demand/pay-per-view/download services will offer a larger play list with lower distribution costs.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
that Blu-Ray and HD-DVD use their full dual-layer storage capacities of 50GB and 30GB respectively. Now, the largest currently available 3.5" internal HDD is 500 GB. Presently that would mean a maximum of ~10 Blu-Ray movies or ~16 HD-DVD movies. This is not a lot considering I counted over 200 DVDs on my shelf, making over the 500GB alone.
Another mentioned problem is distribution. The largest "widely" available download speeds available from Verizon via FIOS (which I will admit is not that widely available), is 30 Mbps. Now assuming you get the peak download speeds, we are talking about downloading 400,000 Mb or 240,000 Mb depending on the media. This would result in download times of 3 to 4 hours for Blu-Ray type media and of 2 to 3 hours for HD-DVD Media. On the more standard 6 Mbps connection these times would be nearly 5x larger. I think I can get to Best Bu,y Circuit City, or some other store and home in about 30 minutes tops. You have to remember a great number of consumers still pay for convenience, even in DVD purchases.
I think the hard drive storage Bill is hoping for is a pipe dream, unless of course he is planning on HDDs becoming so cheap you can sell a movie on one and then just pop it into your "player" and let it go...but HDDs are so big, and they do come with a host of their own problems...
"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb."
"I've said some stupid things and some wrong things, but not that. No one involved in computers would ever say that a certain amount of memory is enough for all time. Meanwhile, I keep bumping into that silly quotation attributed to me that says 640K of memory is enough. There's never a citation; the quotation just floats like a rumor, repeated again and again."
Bill Gates, 1996
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
What the hell .. we are going to like DRM because Bill Gates says it's wrong?
How stupid.
Anyone who realizes this cult mentality can use it against us. What if he's really pro DRM and saying he isn't? LOL!
Most of the postings on here are actually supporting DRM !! WTF??
Has their seething hatred of Bill Gates caused people to blindly lose their sense of reason??
Isn't it possible to hate without losing a sense of reason?
Ars Technica goes Inside Microsoft's decision to back HD DVD http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/hardware/mi crosoft-hd-dvd.ars
Bluray fires back
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050929/sfth060.html?.v =32
Microsoft Responds
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050929-5366 .html
You won't be able to play movies and do software in a flexible way.'"
That the MPAA will release its movies only with DRM seems obvious. But I see no reason why the use of the new format for other purposes is more restricted that the use of, say, CD-R.
Is there a mandatory copy protection I have missed?
C - the footgun of programming languages
The conceptualization of a "disk" where you can read and write frequently at relative high speed doesn't change whether it's HD based, flash based, internet based or hologram based. I'm sure Gates still wants a file to be DRM'ed to death, he must make sure that MS are the gatekeepers.
Still. Cryptographic locks are potentially very interesting features for securing content, assessing authorship. Paraphrasing Linus: "_real_ men just upload their important stuff encrypted on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it". You're not really putting up stuff on ftp, but who knows what can be accessed without your explicit approval/knowledge. Preemptively act as if that was the case. Contrary to material properties, information is very resilient and durable. The only downsides are that it can be lost in an instant (hence the need for redundancy and backups) and can be disclosed in an innoportune fashion (hence the need for cryptographic protection).
As we embark (on the inevitable) road to making information a full-fledged property, we need to make sure all the usual ingredients of a property are present. Some will say that instead of trying to fit information in the usual definition of (material) property, we should instead enlarge and refine the definition of property. Sure, that doesn't invalidate the fact that we want to be able to protect and lock down information properties. What I guess I'm saying is that a property has attributes that are requisite for trade and that since our civilization is mostly built on that (and some form of democracy), any new property will have to incorporate those attributes we have come to rely upon.
Bill Gates doesn't care that Blu-Ray and HD-DVD use restrictive, anti-customer technologies. After all, Gates is that one who's letting Hollywood studios design the high-powered DRM in Windows Vista. He's the one crippling media playback on non-approved PC peripherals.
What Gates mostly cares about, I'll bet, is that Blu-Ray and HD-DVD keep your data chained to another vendor's disc. Microsoft could have a few problems with this; after all, the inability to back up or rip discs will make Windows look like a second-rate OS, while Linux will undoubtedly end up with open source DRM-cracking tools. Gates would rather keep your data locked into your Windows installation. That way, Microsoft-approved devices like the Xbox will work with it, but non-approved devices like the iPod won't.
He who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
I can agree with Mr Gatesd on that - who would need 30GB DVDs ? specially when they are not playble in the
newest Xbox!
Every time something he doesn't like (for whatever reason) starts to gain prominence, he makes comments like this in an attempt to freeze the market and play the White Knight with an alternative that is really, REALLY bad for consumers, but much better for him.
Research shows that 67% of those who use the term "research shows", are just making shit up.
'Well, the key issue here is that the protection scheme under Blu-Ray is very anti-consumer and there's not much visibility of that. The inconvenience is that the [MPAA] got too much protection at the expense of consumers and it won't work well on PCs. You won't be able to play movies and do software in a flexible way.'
Yes Mr Stallman, but I think that this sort of thing is bound to happen whatever you...Bill who said what?
the problem is just the same like with the goverment. ... ... in political speak, we have ... ... it is just to bad that they have ... in the begining sony ... ... ... ... a judge dread indeed :)
you don't want the police man to write the law AND be
the judge at the same time
with sony(mt) it is so that they are a "lable/recording"
company and at the same time make the hardware to store
and play this software
a monarchy
sony is okay a company i guess, the walkman was a
cool invention
forgoten where their roots lie
just made hardware and some recording media, tape cassets,
but somebody hired the wrong guy (marketing?) and sony
made a un-lawfull wedding with the recording industry
i think the company they bought (one of many meanwhile)
was ABC or the such
if american law makers (and european etc.) value the
basic idea of fairness / freedom / demoncracy, they should
really pass a very simple law, that a policeman should not
be allowed to make laws and be a judge all in one
sony
... is also my enemy.
"She's furniture with a pulse"
... is my friend. For now. Maybe.
Or at least until my new friend becomes my enemy.
"She's furniture with a pulse"
Fred Flintstone:
1. Whose baby is that?
2. What's your angle?
3. I'll buy that!
Bill Gates:
1. Whose baby is that?
2. What's my angle?
3. I'll assimilate that!
4. Profit!
RETURN without GOSUB in line 1050
On the other hand, if Bill Gates is saying, "Uh uh, even I won't screw consumers over that badly!" then we may have grounds for concern.
.. so, if harddisk storage is so important for Bill Gates, why do I have to jump through hoops to get Windows 2000 to see more than 137 GB?
I know!! 137GB's aught to be enough for anybody, right?
the idea of cd media is obsolete. Soon flash drives will be 100gig, so that can take care of pc storage, and as far as the movie industry goes, an online blockbuster paper view hybrid works best for them. You pay $2 to "rent" a movie for a week and at the end of the week it expires. That is why all the telcos are spending a fortune to get fiber to everyone's doorstep. check out Verizon's FIOS service. Comcost is starting to up the anti as well, as they start to increase their compression and equipment.
Its only a matter of (short) time that people stop going to by movies at a store, and start browsing catalogs online. I say we see it in pass within 5 years.
* You can't stick it in a binder
* It will be useless in cars with DVD systems
* It will destroy portable dvd player market
* You think netflix will still offer free shipping on that stupid catridge?
* Will you really want to redesign your shelfs and entertainrooms around bigger/goofier looking catridges?
* Will you really let your kids touch something like this?
* Do you really think *SONY* is good or even better than Microsoft? Sony isn't Mr Corporate Friendly last time i checked.
Blue Ray destroys everything that is GOOD about DVD and CD type technology and takes us back to the days of proprietary zip disk looking things that may be the talk of the town for a short while but don't do anything but give us space that we won't use for a while.
"'Well, the key issue here is that the protection scheme under Blu-Ray is very anti-consumer and there's not much visibility of that. The inconvenience is that the [MPAA] got too much protection at the expense of consumers and it won't work well on PCs. You won't be able to play movies and do software in a flexible way.'"
Translation: ANY version of DRM where WE don't hold the keys? That will not do!
--MAB
Bill is not happy.
However, he has WMV9, DRM and high bandwidth broadband connections to play with. If he launches a solution that will enable you to encode and replay HD content via your PC - with say a movie at 720p in 10-15Gb then he can say to content providers "sell your content with my DRM, in my store, to replay on this system". They will say no, but he doesn't care, he just waits for the hackers to create a system to extract and replay Blu-Ray content via the new system. They can distribute it in the same way they distribute DVDs - at the same time fixing the existing holes that RIAA exploit.
People then have a choice of paying lots for a new system, and new content - or just a HD capable PC and the file sharing that people are already happy with. Cue movie industry meltdown.
This looks to be very much "play nice or I'll get nasty". He can make it so that the easiest HD solution is one based on file sharing. Expect to see secure download to your PC as part of an updated Blu-Ray and HD-DVD spec.
I certainly don't hope hard disks are the way of the future -- I want get away from these lound power-hungrey spinning accidents waiting to happen and start moving stuff to flash solid-state memory. If the iPod Nano can have it, why not my next iBook?
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough [to break modern encryption] would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers."
-- Bill Gates from "The Road Ahead," p. 265.
Although I'm sure he didn't realise its curiosity value.
"She's furniture with a pulse"
I'm glad Mr. Gates has finally come around to my way of thinking. For years, I've been bothered by my inability of his anti-consumer media formats that take months or years to be decoded so that I can use them and my favorite toys under free software. Now if only he'd view free software like he does trivial things like movie formats, I'd be very happy.
Mr. Gates will come to understand fully how rotten M$ is. It will happen when he's no longer calling the shots.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
You enjoy the freedom you have with CDs. DVDJon not withstanding, doing the same thing with DVDs is not so easy, not because 9.4 GB is an overwhelming amount of data, but because of the CSS you have to deal with.
If BluRay doesn't make the PC copy feature mandatory, it may very well be impossible, at least in your lifetime, to have any freedom with the next generation DVD.
Saying you don't need that freedom because today's hardware can't take advantage of it is incredibly short-sighted.
RETURN without GOSUB in line 1050
let's face it. don't you want to download "something" from the internet to your small & portable usb flash drive, and then plug and play it in your tv directly?
the next-gen recordable media solution looks even more costly to me, considering the device you need.
...I'd say that HDDs were the future. If the movie companies took the original footage (not DVDs that have been compressed a round already), compressed it with modern codecs and you'd have at least 100 movies in a standard 250GB HDD of equal to or higher than DVD quality.
Now, Blue-Ray is promising 25GB/disc encoded with high quality codecs. 10 in a 250GB HDD? That's a dead proposition. People won't have a whole RAID array spinning just to have a 40-50 film library. And harddisks haven't been significly improving since 250GB drives arrived (gone from 83GB/platter to 133GB/platter, the rest is more platters).
In the long term, maybe we have the bandwidth to do streaming on demand. But that will not take off until you can do that from anywhere in the world, not on my cable/DSLs poor and expensive selection. Want the last episode of Stargate? Go to www.stargate.com and stream it for some $$$. Except I know my line can't handle that, I'd have to download and wait. There's no instant satisfaction, no resemblance of tuning in the TV. I know it works the same as BitTorrent, but well - people put up with a lot when it is free (as in beer). And I much rather suspect that huge bandwidth = passing around TV shows/movies as if they were mp3s instead.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Uncle Bill is seeing at it from a software distribution point of view, they are selling max. 2 ~ 3 cd's (or dvd's) a year to the same consumer, an entertaiment business (f.ex. Sony) may sell 20 disk's a year to the same consumer.
From the Blu-ray FAQ:
http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#1.10
"1.10 Will Blu-ray discs require a cartridge?
No, the development of new low cost hard-coating technologies has made the cartridge obsolete. Blu-ray will instead rely on hard-coating for protection, which when applied will make the discs even more resistant to scratches and fingerprints than todays DVDs, while still preserving the same look and feel. The adoption of hard-coating will also allow manufacturers to downsize players/drives and lower their overall media production costs."
an alien has taken control of Bill Gates' body and is having fun f*cking with people's mind.
Want access to my blog?
No we don't
I think MS can just see the real implications of Blu-Ray and they know it's a danger to them (and consumers in general). I don't think MS is being altruistic here, it's just that this time the general good happens to coincide with their goals. I've talked to a few people involved in DRM work at MS. They say that MS is only supporting DRM to appease content providers. From their point of view it limits their capabilities and doesn't really buy them anything. However DRM is the only way to get content providers to play ball.
Now the real danger in the whole Blu-Ray issue is this. The DRM model for Blu-Ray is extremely restrictive and especially wouldn't play nice in a PC type environment. Also, Blu-Ray is a closed spec that must be licensed, so any deviation from this DRM model risks legal action by Sony. The content providers like this because it's a model with legal and/or technical barriers at every link in the chain. However if Blu-Ray really becomes the preferred format for HD media we risk a situation where Sony gets final say in all HD content distribution because they own this heavily restricted standard. So in the end Blu-Ray would become a monopoly coup for Sony and fair use would be seriously crippled in the HD world.
So I'd prefer HD-DVD mostly because it's an open spec that is by nature more consumer friendly. Of course, it also helps that HD-DVD will be significantly less expensive and available for large-scale production in the near term.
"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway."
I've had my DVD player menu crash. Simply put the more complex the software gets in things the greater your chances of this occurring. It's inevitable.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
On the other hand Mr. Gates thinks that the future is streaming and storing videos on the harddrive, and that the WMV format is ideal for this, and also very consumer friendly. And it will integrate excellently with all PCs. (As long as the PC is running Windows(TM) of course. But in the future alle PCs will be running windows, so that's not an issue.)
It took me a bit of time after reading this article to figure out how to put this, but I think I know now what I'm going to say. I don't buy the idea that DVDs or discs of some sort will be replaced by hard disk space, regardless of what happened to music and iPods.
Back when my ebook was published, there was a lot of talk about how ebooks were going to supplant the print book. It hasn't happened, and there's a few reasons for that. A book that is bound with a spine is called a codex, and there really isn't a way to improve on it as a format. A codex doesn't require electricity, it is portable, and you can do just about anything you want with the book itself. It is completely self contained - the only equipment it is truly linked to in order to function are the eyes of the reader (and something with which to turn pages). An ebook, on the other hand, has copy protection issues to deal with, requires electricity of some sort to use, and if the electronic reader breaks down, the ebook becomes inaccessible, or possibly even lost. Is it any surprise that the numbers that constitute a bestseller for an ebook are a fraction of the what is required for a print book?
Now, take a DVD. So far, I think it's become about as close to what the codex is for books as is possible for movies (although it could be a bit smaller and contain more information). It has no moving parts, it's portable, and while it requires a player to watch the movie, the player breaking down will not damage the movie, or prevent me from taking it to another player.
If it becomes just a download onto a hard drive, a lot of these merits are lost. The movie is attached to the player, if the player goes down the movie can be lost, and there are a bunch of new digital rights issues to deal with (and let's face it, we're not doing that well with figuring out how to deal with digital rights right now). Also, once the movies are being stored on a hard drive, it becomes difficult to deal with them individually - let's say I want to loan one to a friend, or to take one with me when I travel out of town. In order to do that, I'd have to loan or take the entire hard disk.
No, I don't buy the idea of a format like the DVD being supplanted. It has always seemed to me that the most lasting technologies are those that offer the most utility in the simplest way. And, when it comes down to it, DVDs are pretty simple. They can certainly still be improved, but I honestly can't see a portable medium like the DVD being replaced by a medium like the hard disk.
Robert B. Marks
Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
he wants everyone to store multimedia on harddrives so he and monkeyboy can access it thru a Windows backdoor...
-always an ulterier motive
If the technology is so user-unfriendly, then it'll be defeated by the users, sorry, the customers. The customers already have a technology that works, called DVD. It works good enough for most of them, so you have to give them reasons to upgrade (Bill should know a thing or two about it, from a certain product he has, called Office). If you don't, you won't sell a Blue-Ray player ever.
Well, the studios could refuse to release the films in DVD format, but, you know, that's kind of difficult till you have a big customer base. After all, it's your main revenue source, you don't play with that. And then there is piracy. No amount of protection is going to protect the content, as you will always have at least the analog output to recode, and most likely a tweaked Blue-Ray player to play with.
So I don't particularly care one way or the other. If they protect too much, they'll never win market share, and hard disks are not the only competitor that they will find. Think cheap memory cards, for example. I personally think that these standards are a bit early in the day, driven more by the desire of selling us again the same old films in the shiny new format, than by any customer desire. If they really cared about the customer they would quit displaying stupid screens at the beginning of the DVDs that you cannot skip. I regularly copy my DVDs and you know what, the copies are more used by my family than the originals, because you simply pop the disk and the film starts, no menus, no nothing. So that's a customer desire (my family being fairly typical), and it's not even being considered.
Note to the studios: Do you want to end piracy? Sell DVDs at 3$ from the same day of the first screening, and you are done. You'll even win probably more money than now, as people will buy the cheap DVDs before their friend tell them that the film is no good (what happens with most films nowadays, which was the last film that left you Wow! ? For me it was the Matrix, and that's some years away).
Rome taught me patience and assiduous application to detail. Virtues which temper the boldness of great, general views.
These comments are especially interesting given what is about to transpire in the video game console market. The XBOX 360 will have not have HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, but will feature a 12X DVD-ROM and a 20GB removable hard drive capability. What is going to happen when developers start making games with alot of data - like 50GB of data - on the Blu-Ray capable Sony Playstation 3? Are they going to start including a 20GB hard drive with every XBOX game they want to sell? It is going to happen. This new storage capacity is going to be utilized at some point. It may be a few years from now, but it's inevitable. I don't think developers are going to want to have to release a half dozen DVD's for every cross platform Bluray game that comes out. I don't think Mr. Gates wants to face that he has been outmaneuvered on this front. It doesn't matter what he thinks is the best. The method that is most easily transfered from point A to point B with the most storage capacity is the one that is going to be adopted.
Linux isn't great because it's piracy features and Anti DRM features..
How does anything you say even have a glimmary of relationship to the topic? Linux will win because people will crack the technology on a free os?
come on
Everyone knows what the W in WMV stands for.
... or MS selection of all licensed players at least. Which Apple can forget.
Although he's stirring up support by slamming the Blu Ray DRM, he's hardly arguing for a DRM free alternative.
Rather one which FORCES WINDOWS on every sucker
Yeah, thanks Bill. How about you just let Balmer handle the PR. His F**king Kill (tm) diatribes make for much stronger argument awareness. What with risks of chair inflicted injuries.
but playing over a network device of some sorts..
Fios could handle it if they seperated out different types of networks/protocols to handle it.
Infact verizon's goal with fios is internet at first and then TV and VoIP and everything else that will follow.
Yeah, I'm totally with you on that, living in Britain with a DVD collection that is at least 50% region 1.
... you'll find the same at any Online Video Download Store coming to a site near you. It's the same deal with the lame old DVD region codes. And it stinks.
... *clicks Bit Torrent*
But the reason Lost can't be bought outside of the US is because of the way the TV networks license their material for particular markets. Nothing to do with Apple
I'm not afraid of Blu Ray regions though because, much like my region unlocked DVD software I use now, I'm sure the community will find a way around the measures - no matter how much work has been put into them - and I will gladly use that and keep on BUYING stuff I would rather not just RIP OFF and download.
But if they force me, I know what to do
VHS macrovision... evil.
DVD region coding... evil.
HD-DVD small capacity... evil.
Blu-Ray Super-DRM... Evil.
Hard Drive distribution failure rates, cost... Evil!
Download network saturation... EVIL!
Streaming-only content lack of persistancy... EEEEVIL!
Wherefore art thou Crystal Storage?
Why wouldn't the same cracking tools appear for windows ? It is not like they are dependent on some OS feature.
TechSutra
Pot, Kettle, black.
Considered other motives? Blu-Ray threatens Microsoft's OS-based DRM vision, since the requirement for direct encrypted channel between any computer-based Blu-Ray drive and a security-certified video board eliminates the market for software-enforced DRM, since it's end-to-end hardware based.
The result is of course, Microsoft objects, for its own selfish reasons -- apparently the only DRM that's not anti-consumer is to be TCPA --- i.e. Microsoft's Next Generation Security Base; everything else must be pro-consumer.
Perhaps anything that's not hacker friendly is anti-consumer, but look at all these times Microsoft's tried to patch their Xbox platform against software hacking.
Again: Pot, Kettle, black.
Look at it from the MS perspective, their consumer is: Someone who buys/subscribes to windows, owns an xbox and a WMA-enabled music device/car radio.
;'cept for limited CD burns, itunes bought videos not playable on DVD players.
Anything that does not permit people to make use of media across this entire DRM-managed ecosystem is anti consumer. that includes apple (ipod only, itunes mostly useless elsewhere,
So in terms of restrictiveness, the windows/WMA drm-managed ecosystem is broader and less 'restrictive' than Blu-ray, at least to the extent that Poland's communist government used to be somewhat less restrictive than the soviet union itself. Even so, it is bollocks.
Billg does have a point though: the only long term storage mech is HDD, though not, sadly, my 70GB work SCSI HDD, which failed last week. Raid-5 SATA-2 drive arrays, perhaps.
Xboxlive is the service that gives the 360 the "network is the computer" concept.
Blue ray won't make your games better. THe services built around the 360 do. Xboxlive makes it easy to manage a single platform with limitless possibilites and takes you beyond the limited storage medium of which should only be a way to load up what you need to get running with anyhow.
The 360 with the hard drive and broadband connection gives you much more than a larger storage format that won't get used anyhow.
Flash began expensive, and though the cost per byte has fallen, it's still a couple of orders of magnitude more expensive than disk drives.
IIRC, that's about always been the price differential.
*I know they are "facts" from an official source that might not be true. Proving them isn't my job or worry now.
**Big Disk Format, a trademark (that I may/may not claim at the USPTO) of game kid.
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
Another post early on explained it in a great way. Gates may not necessarily care about consumer rights from a humanitarian perspective, but he certainly does from a business perspective.
Basically, he wants Windows to become the complete center of the digital home universe. Everything from TV, music, movies, home automation, personal management, purchases, etc will be done on and controlled by the computer. Problem is, Big Media doesn't want it's content accessible to computers unless they can be guaranteed people won't make copies and/or distribute their copyrighted works. Gates himself has nothing to gain, rather, everything to lose by caving in to high level DRM such as with Blu-Ray. He wants the computer/Windows to be the complete media management solution where people can do essentially anything with media, including stream/copy media to any computer in the house for playback. But again, the media conglomerates see that as an encroachment of their copyright, even if it falls under the category of fair-use.
Anything considered fair-use (in terms of media) is a good thing for Gates, because it means people are free to use his platform to do whatever they want with media they purchase.
Consider that Bill wants the PC (and Media Centre) to be at the heart of the future home.
+5 Insightful.
Nobody else has mentioned it.
Gates has pimped home theater convergence for a decade. With the line between flatscreen monitors and TVs already blurred, prime-time shows available for download, an HTPC enthusiast community writing the playbook, and the media player as the crown jewel of Vista, the stars are aligned for it to finally (FINALLY!) happen. Given the mainstream foothold FOSS has found (finally finally?), it's not a minute too soon. I'd bet anything the first effort at a truly digital living room will happen in Vista's generation, and it'll either be Gates's Normandy or his Waterloo.
So naturally he wants us to think digital storage. It keeps Windows in the loop.
Anybody think the name Vista was an accident?
you can have my violent video games when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.
Prime UID Club
...Product Activation is PRO consumer?! Having to ask permission to re-install your paid-for OS on your paid-for computer?! Wow Gates must have a HUGE mouth to be able to talk out of both sides of it so well.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
"Linux will win because people will crack the technology on a free os?"
I think you're oversimplifying what I wrote.
I don't know if Linux will "win" (whatever that means), but I think it might have an edge over Windows in this case. DRM-enforcing tools for playing Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs will appear for Windows, but naturally none will appear for Linux - certainly, no open source tools. Therefore, someone like DVD Jon will hack the DRM and make an open source library that any Linux program can use. At that point, a typical Linux installation will be capable of doing things with Blu-Ray discs that a standard Vista installation can't do.*
We even see this now with copy-protected CDs. The standard protection mechanisms prevent Windows users from ripping their music, but they do nothing to stop Linux and Mac users from ripping.
My suggestion is that Gates wants to avoid that scenario. He'd rather make it easy to get the data onto Windows and thus control what devices are DRM-authorized and which aren't. Make no mistake, Gates is pro-DRM. But he'd like it to reside in a domain he can control.
He who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
I've been reading all the comments for this article, and I see a lot of people agreeing with Mr. Gates. Now, that's *not* why I shudder, though in joking I'll say it is, but the thought of getting rid of removeable media in favor to storing things locally. Allow me to present my argument.
1) Disk Space
With removeable media, you have infinite (approaching) disk space. I'm sure I'm going to get at least one comment saying "no, you're stupid", but look at it this way. If you have 1 250 wB hard drive (whateverbyte, meaning as big as you want) you can store that much content. However, if 1 removeable disk has only 50 wB, buy 4 disks and you've got more room. I've always been in favor of removeable media as its a whole lot easier to go out and buy another pack of cds then it is to go get a hard drive and put it in (and yes, I built my two desktops, and regularly upgrade others systems, so I don't mean I can't, I mean I prefer the removeable way of upgrading).
Now, what with the price of drives, some may say that you'll always be able to upgrade for cheap, and hold as much as you you need. Ok, a good movie is only 4 gig, and I've got a 250 gig hard drive, so I should be able to hold everything I want, right? I've filled him up a few times when I was doing exactly as the article suggests, ripping my DVDs and CDs to the disk so I wouldn't have to swap discs or deal with nasty DRMs. Yea, I could go buy another, but I'd end up filling it up soon enough anyways. I don't think that this is a good enough reason to say "down with disks", because not everyone can afford a new disk every year.
2) Backups
So, if all my media is on my hard drive, where do I back it up to? Using those DRMs microsoft has it won't let me burn it to my media, I imagine, I'm going to need to go get another hard drive to back it up? I'm not a business, I can't afford to have whole data stroage centers to let me and my friends maintain efficient backups. Right now I backup all my data every two weeks (I develop web pages, graphics, and c/java) and can't afford to have something go "oops" all of a sudden.
3) Get Movies
And finally, if all my media is on my drive, where do I get it from? I imagine Best Buy's gonna become a nice website where I can download these movies for a fee, and they'll get locked after x hours perhaps? But what about people that don't have internet acess (don't laugh, you were there too once). Or people that can't afford to download 4 GB everytime they wanna watch a new movie? What about those people that just don't want to share an internet line with 8 other apartments doing the above? I just don't see it as being efficient enough to be a valid model.
Take Steam for instance (Valve software's software distribution model). The day Half-life 2 came out many couldn't play for hours after buying the game because the servers were swampped. Can you imagine what would happen if you had most of America (or even just, say, coupla million /.ers checking out the new Star Wars, heh) it would grind to a halt like every site. I would hate to go rent a movie to watch it, then wait while Best buy rebooted their ./ed servers and got it to me.
So, while I am extremely opposed to getting away from removeable media and those "nasty DRMs", I would hate to see the alternative come. Unfortunatly, I don't have much faith in the technological choices of the masses ("You mean I can buy this, then download and I don't need a disk?! Cool!" will echo from colleges nationwide) and I can easily see Mr. Gates being right. All he has to do is put the infrastructure there, and enough people will sign on that it'll become a reality.
Want to find other gamers to play board and role playing game
...so short-sighted?
HD is such a new technology, we don't even have a cheap full-res HD device yet! What's the cheapest 1080p (or even i) device that can display 1920x1080 in a decent size?
We're taking baby steps. When I got Step Into Liquid (go buy it), it came with a proprietary MS HD DVD. I got it to work with zero problems. T2 was the same.
Blu-Ray and HD-DVD was still baby steps. The industry is likely hoping it fails, but they're acting like they care about their customers. The truth is, the technology, as a whole, is not there yet.
HD will explode when:
1. Compression's Holy Grail is found (10x better than today). I truly believe we're making strides there. I remember hearing Sony's MD ATRAC and knew things were going to change, way before MP3/OGG/etc.
I invested (zero copying ability) in MD, I knew it was a baby step. Today I stream MP3's (Shoutcast) to my cell over my 4K GPRS connection, almost anywhere. I use 0MB of PDAphone storage.
HD to the home scares everyone but consumers. The movie theater industry is freaking out. But it doesn't matter. Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, MS-WMV, etc will not be enough to make consumers happy. They/we will find their happy medium, initially through breaking the law.
In the last week I spent over 60 hours researching copyright history. I now believe it is wrong, and I am going to fight the law by ignoring it. I am a content creator and copyright has never helped me and has hindered those who quote me or want to adapt my work. I am an AnCap, and I now know that copyright can not and will not stand the test of time.
So why are we worried? We happily accept laws and restrictions that we agree with. We'll find our perfect HD medium through the individual choices of billions.
But it will with a Mac.
He perhaps is unaware of what his company is doing with regarding to content and no one told him that the MPAA and the movie studios are his close partners. May be he used the word "Consumers", in Microsoft speak, it means the captives. Wembley Stadium, perhaps Nottingham next where he can come back as the Sheriff of Nottingham, except these days he would be loved for stealing from the poor and doling them back a pittance.
Microsoft gets sued by other companies and governments duped by companies claiming Microsoft is anti-competitive.
Notice that consumers themselves have never rose up en masse to sue Microsoft.
Microsoft has no monopoly and never did, otherwise I wouldn't have been using Macs and Linux for all of these years.
Every company could have used Macs or Linux themselves, but chose not too.
Microsoft's problem is that they didn't do enough PR. When the sharks smell cash and weakness, they sue.
Google will be next on the hit list, trust me.
I've talked to a few people involved in DRM work at MS. They say that MS is only supporting DRM to appease content providers. From their point of view it limits their capabilities and doesn't really buy them anything.
I would say it is a double edged sword, but it is definately not nothing. On one hand, you have the lock-in to Windows systems protected by hard DRM, on the other side, the infamous Star Wars quote. The last thing Microsoft wants is to create a world where people choose Linux because it is full of DRM workarounds (illegal as they might be), while Windows is stuck with a ton of restrictions. If people understand that "Trusted computing" means "Protected from the user", there will be trouble.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Oh my goodness! What a bunch of morons! I was reading this discussion up until your thread. Just say it! Invoke Godwin's law. Bill Gates is Hitler. Ballmer is Goebbels.
/. is on its last leg. This seals it.
This is what's wrong with slashdot. Mindless idiots like you who are on the anti-MS bandwagon just because it's cool.
I feel like my intellect has taken a hit (a bong hit, that is) just because of reading your post. Might as well have typed it in 1337$p33|
--
Wow, is Microsoft actually speaking out in concern for the End Users???
Rirelobql xabjf gung EBG-13 vf gur yrnfg frpher rapelcgvba rire, ohg jbhyq lbh jnfgr lbhe gvzr npghnyyl qrpelcgvat vg???
Infinite stock of even the most popular titles. No return rentals. Limited not by time, but by space on the iPod. Easy point-of-sale distribution, either wandering a store full of docks or with a central kiosk. They better do it quick before Apple beats them to it online. It goes without saying that Bill Gates has already been left in the dust on this. :-)
I've talked to a few people involved in DRM work at MS. They say that MS is only supporting DRM to appease content providers.
Chicken or the egg? MS is offering to the media providers, a method that MS will be part of from begining to end and can license and control to ensure it will only work on a PC loaded with some type of MS licensed software that someone somewhere paid for on your viewing end. Appeasing the content providers yes but the motivation is for their own benefit.
If there is going to be a flow of data from a content provider to you, MS wants to be a part of the action and extract fees from it. Of course everyone else wants a piece as well. The reason there no one "standard" now is playing out as the extractors battle it out for the method that will get them the most money. The better technology and a happy consumer are not even considered at this point. This scenario plays out for every new standard from memory subsystems, 56k modem protocols, HDTV encoding, to system buses and interfaces.
We are at war with Sony Pictures. We have always been at war with Sony Pictures. Microsoft is our ally. Microsoft has always been our ally. Please report to the Ministry of Information for reprocessing.
Yes. And if history is any indication, the cracking/ripping tools will appear on Windows first, and only be belatedly ported to Linux.
Though physical shopping can be eliminated, it may not be. We don't really need malls any more. Is there anything you can buy in a mall you can't buy on the Internet right now? Cheaper? Yet people still go to malls. Even young people go to malls. In suburbia, where else is there to go? The social aspects of shopping may keep physical media sales alive long beyond the absolute necessity for it.
But the "physical media" might not actually contain the movie or song. Look at the ringtone business. You can buy "ringtone cards" at many retail outlets, but they contain no sound - they're just a value card that's redeemed through the phone network. Napster sells value cards for their system at retail. The future of movie retailing might look like that.
I agree with Bill Gates.. whats next? Gnu Hurd 1.0?
He prefers to sell his own DRM system and have it as a standard...
In the history of the world, no medium has been killed because folks couldn't afford to produce for it. Do you know how much it costs to run a symphony orchestra for a year? Yet much new symphonic music is written every year, and performed by the hundreds of symphony orchestras all over the world. This for a medium in which only a tiny fraction of the population is willing to listen at all. Note that ticket prices pay for only a fraction of the cost; the rest is made up in other ways.
If we can keep producing symphonies, I say movies aren't going anywhere, regardless of shifts in their profit model.
And who is 'we' ? Far better if you choose to critique or claim to represent a group to have the courage to publish your nick name or some form of identification. That way it doesn't look so childish and denigrate the sometimes intelligent discussions on /.
O'WONDERWe're working on it.
The real reason Microsoft, and Intel, are support HD-DVD over Blu-Ray is simply because HD-DVD is cheaper and more cost effective. Other than being slightly more expensive, the Blu-Ray technology is light years better than HD-DVD's best wet dream.
google.slashdot
Lots of folks are throwing around lots of scary numbers about how much bandwidth will be needed for HD movie downloads. The good thing is that they can be much smaller than many seem to fear.
M bps+VBR.torrent?75320A1EBA045F4BCC75992F2461E9FAC5 952498
I posted this in the last HD disc thread, but here it is again: a very hard movie trailer, encoded at 1080p24, at 8 Mbps VBR. And bear in mind this is unusually challenging content. And bear in mind we're about to see a next generation of codecs (VC-1 Advanced Profile and High Profile H.264) which will give us another very welcome boost in compression efficiency.
http://216.99.212.233:6969/torrents/The+Island+8+
Note the data rate here is also sufficient for putting a HD feature on DVD-9 media.
All that said, 8 Mbps at a 4 Mbps download gives 4 hours to download a 2 hour movie. Way faster than Netflix, and WAY better looking (6.5x the pixels!).
My video compression blog
I paid money for that DVD. It infuriates me that I must sit there and be told like a retard that copyright infringement is theft (it isn't) and all the punishments that could happen to me if I pirated the content. I BOUGHT THE FUCKING THING YOU DOUCHEBAGS!! And my DVD player won't let me skip it? Or even fast-forward it? Fuck you! It's happening more and more when I buy new DVDs.
It's the principle of the thing, and the reason I am buying fewer and fewer DVDs. I'll do without the 'extra features' if it means I can hit play and the movie begins playing INSTANTLY.
In 2005 America, you are suprised that people are pissed at having their time wasted?
Blar.
"...the protection scheme under Blu-Ray is very anti-consumer and there's not much visibility of that. The inconvenience is that the [MPAA] got too much protection at the expense of consumers and it won't work well on PCs."
Then why are all the major PC manufacturers backing Blu-Ray instead of HD-DVD?
It is time for a solid-state enclosed technology, similar to USB pen-drives. Disks get scratched too easily. I've had more problems with scratched disks than with VCR tapes. The reason is that even though tapes are a clumsy technology, they were enclosed. My kids, the ultimate Samsonite gorilla testers, have ruined only 2 VCR tapes, but about dozen CD/DVD's.
Table-ized A.I.
"WHERE art thou, Crystal Storage?"
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=whereforDurability
If TDK's hard coat can live up to it's marketing claims, discs provided with the 0.1 mm coating will be even more resistant against damage then current DVDs. The coating is highly scratch resistant and fingerprints can be wiped off to a point where the disc can be read perfectly. This feature will help Blu-ray take an advantage. The negative point is that the coating makes the BD more expensive.
Some consolation, but I feel your pain as well!
Poory billy baby doesnt want to pay SONY royalties so he bad mouths Blu-Ray...
On a more realistic note, its always the case that different media formats come down to two things, Need and cost. Lets face it a removable harddrive is going to cost significantly more then a plastic disk to mass produce. The thing that works against blue-ray which i dare say will be only a matter of time is the need, at present it may not be needed to utilise the entire 50gig at present but the day will come when something greater then DVD will be required.
Weather it be removal hdd, i see its just a little unrealistic, heck so many factors work agaisnt using hdds as standard removable meida, one of those is the fact they are easily breakable, by dropping and magantisim, Okay yes we can sctrach disks but they still a hell of a lot more durable then a hdd.
I think you'd be able to work for 15 minutes to get the $8 to see it at a matinee/cinema
The only place that would hire me is the local veterans' hospital, and for my job classification it pays $0.00 an hour. I can't even get an interview when applying for openings in minimum wage positions; all I get is "Sorry, this position has already been filled."
Those pesky DVD things arent really tied to one vendor, namely Microsoft.
Yes they are, namely DVD Forum.
it has nothing to do with data rates.
the studios don't want to let customers have their way with stuff they purchase. and in order to do that, they have to force on them new formats with far worse DRM.
the whole BS about HD requiring far more bitrate is just a smokescreen.
a 2x dvd player is more than enough to handle a high bitrate mpeg4/h264/vc1 stream, 20+ megabits/sec.
this world sucks.
even more so when clueless people help adopt anti-customer technology and business practices.
Science : Proprietary , Knowledge : Open Source
regardless of the acuracy of the quote... I still take things said by Bill or M$ with more than a grain of salt.
...but then again, it's probably because the thing doesn't run WMA natively.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/
BlueRayMan
I ask in all seriousness, is there any end to the superiority of our enlightened Euro-brothers? I applaud you for your very existence - nothing about you can be said to be less than perfect. Thank you for existing, good sir.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
Bill certainly must be psychic! Listen to these other amazing predictions:
"I believe OS/2 is destined to be the most important operating system of all time."
"The Internet will never be more than a toy for hackers and gamers." -1993
No worries though, when his predictions don't exactally turn out right, he revises his statements or the entire book, like he did with "The Road Ahead".
I must defend my namesake.
KillShill: Meet you outside by the flagpole at 3:00. We'll settle this ONCE AND FOR ALL!
BlueRayMan
How exactly is that content going to get from the distributor to your hard drive?
By shipping cheap hard drives with the content preloaded. You'd order n movies at a time, and the studio would buy a new external hard drive, load it with those movies, and ship it to you. Or you'd send your old movie drive back, Netflix style, and you'd get it back with different movies on it.
Seeing how Palladium is "anti-consumer", because you're not going to be making game mods unless they're signed by MSFT, there's only one explanation.
Blu-Ray is somehow specifically limiting MSFT. I'm guessing MSFT would have to go through Sony to get something DRM'd for Blu-Ray, and this is why MSFT is calling it "anti-consumer". It's actually anti-MSFT-hegemony, but if Billy Boy came right out and said that, he'd see it used against him in the next anti-trust lawsuit.
I mean, FUCK MSFT. But if I have to support Sony to fuck MSFT, I just don't know. That's like choosing between Kerry or Hillary. Christ, I'd rather put Castro in there.
I think I'm going to support that 3D solid-state optical storage stuff IBM is working on. Screw hard drives, HD-DVD, and Blu-Ray. Wh00t up on IBM.
Bill is a businessman. This is a business move, calulated to improve Microsoft's image in the market by fictionally aligning them with those of us who dislike the MPAA's efforts to force DRM on us. If the MPAA's DRM effort was to somehow benefit Microsoft, Bill would be conspicuously silent. All he's doing is making a statement. A statement in which he proposes no eventualities other than the one that would benefit him over the other guy. Bill doesn't care about geek people. Bill cares about his bottom line, and that's as it should be. I'm not indicting the man for his words, I'm a capitalist with a business degree, but let's not fall all over ourselves trying to figure out his motives when the problem isn't that complex.
Howdy.
I'll tell you why I think all of this matters--from both a business and software development perspective.
I was at the opening keynote session of Sun's Java One in San Francisco, June '05. James Gosling stood with a Panasonic representative to demonstrate Blu-ray (news that it called for Java on-board rocked the house). It was more compelling than an earlier 2005 claim by Steve Jobs about the "year of High Def." As a thoughtful software developer and generally a creative type, I do have many choices. Sun and Apple both offer some compelling alternatives to Microsoft technologies. I immediately saw the promise of the Blu-ray format, and I still do.
I reasoned: Maybe this could breathe new life into our boring Java (/PHP, .NET, etc.) web app development careers. It could also bring many pleasant capabilities out of your office and into your living room. Sans Windows. Of course, I'd rather see Java flourish than some other technologies we don't like to mention, because Java is my specialty. But mind you: I choose my specialties carefully.
If we want to exert some control over how the next generation of High Def media fits into our lives, AND WE SHOULD CARE, AS MOST OF US WILL BE AFFECTED BY ALL OF THESE SHADY BUSINESS MANEUVERS IN REDMOND, we ought to support formats that promise to allow us to extend the technology in whatever ways we see fit.
That said, we would be unreasonable fools to expect a blank check from the movie studios.
I see Java being employed for BLU-RAY'S interactive menus, and lots of other gee-whiz Java functionality which could enhance your next-gen, High Def, web-connected living rooms. Web services, and application logic and games burned to the discs--other cool features that would be easy to author using toolkits such as Blue4J.org would presumably deliver...
One poster went so far as to suggest that its *Java*-based DRM was sole reason Bill Gates hated Blu-ray. That could have been simplified to read "Java in itself." But as others suggest, Bill may embrace (and extend??) Blu-ray too at some point...
But all this emphasis on the evils of DRM is childish. Spend your energy hacking and creating things of worth. Blu-ray gives you more chances to do just that--much moreso than if we had no Blu-ray. Would you rather code in Java or XML or .NET?
I choose Java.
BlueRayMan
Poory billy baby doesnt want to pay SONY royalties so he bad mouths Blu-Ray...
I don't see this as the issue. Here's why: Blu-ray Disc is invented by Sony and Philips. Compact Disc was invented by Sony and Philips. I didn't see Microsoft bad-mouthing CD-ROM.
Maybe more Europeans stick around for the credits because there's nothing to do after 11pm anyway - or because on Sunday, there's nothing to do period.
:)
Instead, they just watch the credits, then go home and listen to sophisticated Eurovision Song Contest compilations, and weep the deep sorrowful tears of a clown
This is contrary to all marketing research done by the industry, which states that a film's international gross is directly related to the star power of the actors on screen. This is where the term "international superstar" derives from, and the example you cited, Jackie Chan, is considered one of the names that can sell a movie in Europe and Asia.
In the 80s, there was a small film studio named Cannon Group. You might've heard of it, they are responsible for quite a few iconic low-budget 80s action films along the lines of Missing in Action, The Delta Force, Death Wish, Masters of the Universe, and many others. They had a LOT of success releasing their films internationally, even when those films were flopping in the United States. The secret behind this was that they cultivated actors and promoted them HEAVILY on the international scene. They and similar overseas-centric film producers (Dino de Laurentiis was a major player) helped turn the likes of Chuck Norris, Dolph Lundgren, Charles Bronson, and even Arnold Scwarzenegger and Sylvester Stallone, into "international superstars", even when many of their films flopped in America. How many American films have had success with Jean Claude Van Damm in the lead role? Yet he is very successful internationally.
You give far too much credit to European audiences. Some research has indicated that certain action films over the years have been released specifically because they would have high international grosses, even when the producers knew that the film had limited chance of success in America. The recent film "The Island" is a perfect example of this. The film grossed a pathetic $35 million in the US, while it has taken in roughly $125 million overseas. And this has nothing to do with the director, Michael Bay, who has filmed more "America is #1" movies than any one other director I'm familiar with.
Also, yes, it is true that certain critically acclaimed dramas are huge hits in Europe while they're rarely even widely released in America (see the French gross of the Chinese film "In the Mood For Love" as an example, bet you've never even heard of it). BUT, this too can be exaplained in far more realistic terms than "European audiences are more cultured." The reason behind these successes it that, unlike in America, European and Asian distributors do not merely target young audiences, and many many European ADULTS go to ADULT (I don't mean porn) movies on a regular basis, similar to how some high-class Americans go to the theater.
But anyway, my whole poitn is: Star power is more important internationally than in the US, and history, as well as market research, prove that much.
UNIX: A computer user is defined as a programmer. WINDOWS: A computer user is defined as a consumer.
Are you actually suggesting that somebody would want to use bootable HD-DVD drives in computers INSTEAD of hard drives? If so, I don't know where to begin telling you what's wrong with that idea.
dom
For thinking the right way on this issue.
Actually, I doubt we'll be moving to Flash or NRAM due to the price/byte. I'm hoping data crystals will get rewrite ability soon so we can have those huge 400TB stores and really nice read/write speeds. Too bad there is no way to erase yet, and while the crystals are extremely cheap (like $10 or something like that), the writing device is about 100x more expensive than that. =/ None of this, of course, is available to the public yet.
-illumina+us "I put on my robe and wizard hat..."
To recap:
Damn, if I didn't know who wrote that, I would swear it was someone on our side.
This is the Billy-Bob Gates we're used to:
Between this and MS actively soliciting the help of the Open Source Initiative to make their Shared Source licenses truly Open Source-compliant, it's pretty damn weird. OMG WTF BBQ???
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
he will say anything that fits into selling mor windows copies. he totally ignores the reality that hd's will never survive the rental market, that they are far FAR more expensive, and basicly it's a shit idea because anything you can do on a hd i can run on a optical disc anyway.
the more i read bill gates ideas the more broken they seem from any kind of reality.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
Microsofts interests and the users interests never align even though
they may appear to in the short term. This is yet another ploy to get users
on their side so that they can get a standard that they can subvert and use to bilk
more customers with more low quality products. It is probably a bad standard
for the reasons that Whiner-Bill is saying. What he isn't saying is what we'll be faced
with down the road if we go to a standard that he likes and can bend to Microsoft's
systematic program of tying everything to Microsoft core products.
Whiner-Bill is pulling the same boolshite with online music by pushing the idea that
Microsoft wants to be a good guy supporting open standards. Microsoft
has a history of doing everything it can to destroy open standards when it sees
the opportunity and online music and DVD storage standards will not be an exception to
this in the long term. Take a wild guess whose music service will work best with Windows
once everyone has been conned into going along with their good guy position. Does anyone
honestly believe that the service they will get will come close to the value that iTunes gives
once Microsoft has got everyone by their music yinyang. Dream on.
The sad day has come when whats bad for Microsoft is always good for everyone.
The submitter is a Slashbot moron.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
That way, Microsoft-approved devices like the Xbox will work with it, but non-approved devices like the iPod won't.
Of course, not letting the iPod work with a Vista-based computer would spell the death of Vista. Seriously. People like their iPods. Most people do not particularly like Windows. Microsoft hopefully would not (or would, depending on how you look at it) be that stupid. People would revolt and buy Macs if Windows locked out iPods.
Other than a home theatre, where does HD content make any kind of sense? If you have a PC with an HD resolution display like those 23" Apple LCDs, thats just a "poor mans" home theatre of sorts.
Many PCs have a 1280x960 pixel or larger monitor; some have a 1600x1200 pixel monitor. Even laptops tend to come with 1400 pixel wide monitors nowadays. Given that 1280x720 pixels (the 720p display mode) counts as "high definition", I can see a lot of PCs that (with the appropriate speakers) can become poor man's home theater systems.
And think about it this way: how often do you watch the same movie?
Ask any mother with children ages 2 through 6.
That should have been HD, not DV, in the percentage of productions on my stage. The only thing anyone is using DV for these days is "behind the scenes" video.
I haven't yet seen anything shot on HDV come through the stage.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Mr. Gates believes media storage on hard drives is likely to be the default standard sooner rather than later.
He has a point. As he keeps pointing out to anyone who'll listen, Blu Ray DVDs are incredibly expensive to produce. And they only store ~50GB. That's hardly competitive with modern hard drives.
Much better to go with hard drives like the one Microsoft bundles with the XBox360. For $100 over the basic version, you get a whopping 20GB to do anything you like with.
Why on earth would media get shipped at $3/50GB with restrictive copying policies embedded in the hardware when it could be slowly downloaded and put on to a $100/20GB storage system with restrictive copying policies embedded in Microsoft's software?
Sure, there's the argument that you don't want a whole multichanger full of discs when you could have just one hard drive. But, for the next generation of home consoles, Microsoft's hub has an optional hard drive that's smaller in capacity than a single next gen DVD. Not really a convincing argument.
But you do get the natty wireless controllers bundled in for that $100 that, based on the hype, most people thought they were getting anyway.
He sold his sole to Bill Gates And he don't feel alright, cos the money was shite
HAHAHAHAH....Flip Flopping!!! Just like the bodies of young US soldiers and innocent civillians after they catch a few dirty bullets and hit the hot sand. Flip flop flip flop flip flop flop flop...
That's complete nonsense. Yes, Sony and some other companies would have some ownership rights and licensing fees just like regular DVD or MP3 or any lots of other formats. But, "final say in all HD content distribution"? That's completely unfounded.
How did that post get rated a 5, "insightful"?
Well isn't THAT the pot calling the kettle black.
When it's about software and Palladium, dirty scumbag consumers have no business getting direct access. When it's the MPAA touting HDCP or AACS, which might mean Windows can't play the multimedia game, suddenly Mr. Gates is all for Consumer rights.
Why do movies have to take 3 GB + of space? Is there anything in the works to make the actual content smaller in size, but just as high quality? Instead of devoting so much time to making the content-holders more expansive, why not find a way to shrink the content without suffering any loss in quality?
That brings in precisely zero revenue to recoup the cost of making the film. I hate to break it to you, but there won't be a HitMovie.avi for you to download in a few years if this becomes the norm.
Let me describe a business model to you. I'm going to paint a mural on the fence outside my house, using my own time and money. It's a very intricate mural, so we're talking millions of dollars. I'll put a price tag on it, so everyone knows that if they look at the mural, they have to pay me $10, and I'll get my friends on the city council to pass a law making it illegal to look at the mural without paying.
It's a great idea, don't you think? I should be able to recoup my costs in no time! People on the street will be happy to pay for the work I did, even though I never asked them about it beforehand, and no one would dare to look at my mural without paying. That mural is my product--I made it, so that means I'm the boss of it for the rest of my life--and anyone who looks at it without paying is a dirty thief.
Now, if anyone suggests that painting the mural is a service, and there's no reason for strangers to pay me for a service I performed in the past of my own accord... or if anyone suggests that my business model is fundamentally flawes, and I should make arrangements ahead of time to be paid for my labor if I want to be paid at all... well, they're just a bunch of commies, and my response will be to ignore them and focus on punishing those thieves who refuse to pay.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
So that's all it takes...
So Bill wants to lock down Vista and software with hardware DRM, but does not want movies locked down. Yeah, "protect" the stuff that makes me money, but don't "protect" the stuff that doesn't make me money. Sheeesh. (I use "protect" in quotes, since both areas restrict fair use such as moving an OS to a new PC, or backing up a DVD.)
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
I wish we could just skip the DVD-era, and start using GB-sized flash-cards.
I've seen 2048MB SD-cards for sale. That should be enough for a compressed movie.
And if the current trend continues, it shouldn't take too long before we can store HD-movies on the future generation of flash-cards.
The flash-cards are more robust, has no mecanical parts and are easy to deal with.
Okay, they are a bit expensive right now, but I think it's a nice alternative.
As I understand, it's a lot cheaper to make both readers and writers for flash-cards than for DVD-s, BlueRay or HD-DVD.
I would rather have a cheap, portable flash-to-TV player, and an exensive card, than an expensive player, relatively cheap DVDs and a lot of burning- and incompatability-trouble.
Some might say that the future is to start sending movies over the internet, right away, but I think people will miss the feeling of beeing able to "hold a movie", in a physical-object kind of way.
Anyways. Just a wish.
But look at dvdcss. It started out exactly as you say, but then something else happened...people took the open source code (or at least the solutions) and started putting it into Windows applications. Thing DVD Shrink.
The end result? Computer users in general had the option to benifit equally despite their OS of choice. Name 1 major Linux distro that supports encrypted DVD playback out of the box? I know there are packages available for probably every single one, but you have to install them yourself.
With stronger DRM OSS doesn't "win". It just means there will be a period where we won't have support followed by a small window where we might have the only work around before it filters into any number of software/OS solutions.
Basically DRM sucks and its certainly isn't going to do any Linux user any favors. Oh, and you think WMP won't support it out of the box?
Quack, quack.
You have to remember that many people purchase DVDs for extra content as well. In this regard, the extra space will allow for movies to gain back for of the bitrate they sometimes have to sacrifice for the sake of extra features, while at the same time allowing extra features to get more space and quality.
With the advent of HDTV and high definition cameras becoming more prominent, we are not only talking about storing movies in high definition on a disc, but bonus features could be recorded and displayed in the same high definition as well. This would require the extra space, since using the MPEG-2 standard you are going to need more space for the improvement of video from the standard 480 lines to 720 or 1080.
There are several encodings that can be used for video, however, it is often the case in compression that the smaller you make something the more quality-loss you get. The idea is that you have to sample with a certain degree of frequency or your quality will go down. You then need to keep quality up by keeping the bit rates up as well. The idea of a higher bitrate for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD is also taking into account the idea of pushing more DTS and Dolby tracks that contain 6.1 or 7.1 audio.
The idea is to plan for the future, and in this case blue laser technology was a logical and rather "simple" step compared to spending time researching and testing new encoding schemes. The idea was actually a simple one, take a laser with a smaller wavelength and we should be able to burn more data into a smaller space. While the design was obviously not THAT simple, it was logically a next step forward from the present technology.
Now on the assumption that the only revolutions in blue laser media storage will be more layers, it would be fairly safe to say that the next step will be improving encodings. Though I do not know the standards of the other approved encodings for Blu-Ray, I do believe they have better storage usage then the standard MPEG-2.
"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb."
Wrong. You can't simply use the high end vendor [Apple] to support your universal argument. You failed to mention that while Apple raises the stakes (and prices) with their wonderful upscale product lines, (btw, we get what we pay for!) there will always be alternative [cheapo] manufacturers touting lower price points.
Key point: no one is forcing us to buy a top-of-the-line iPod. There are TONS of lesser players at substantially lower prices. Granted, possibly a few better players at lower-than-Apple prices--not sure.
But here is evidence that prices will drop, not just in theory but in practice: have you seen how cheaply you can pick up a DVD video recorder at Walmart today? (That is, a friendly consumer electronics DVD PVR that even sports a firewire/1394/iLink hookup.) Cheaper still for their barebones DVD players. It's inevitable.
Why will the situation be any different for Blu-ray equipment?
BlueRayMan
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