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Microsoft and MTV to Launch Music Service
An anonymous reader writes "According to ZDNet Microsoft and MTV have joined forces to form Urge, a new online music service. From the article: 'The company said Urge would include a subscription component, as well as allowing individual song sales. A spokesman declined to discuss pricing, saying full details would be announced next month. The company gave no specifics on launch date beyond saying it would be sometime in 2006.'"
Music?
I know Microsoft has the music player in Windows, but what does MTV have to do with music?
DRMTV
What in the world could be more pathetic? Honestly
On a side note, my other thoughts are; Microsoft [illicitly whether disclosed or not] is conquering the computer market with dumbed down and crap software) and MTV, poisoning the minds of every youth in the U.S.A. and Canada, bringing their rap music and all that goes along with it (violence, drugs, gangs... whether or not people won't admit it). To me, in some abstract way, this is an attempt [albeit obviously non-personal] my world, the "digital" world, as well as my physical (dreaded) world, I don't mean to sound like such a pathetic bastard, but, come on, ANY ORGANIZATION between two 'evil' corporations like this, is scary.
Just my conglomeration of crappy thoughts =)
SURGE
Sounds more like a service for "adult material", not music.
I don't live in the states anymore. I'm not 'with it' anymore either. Is MTV still the main way that the kids see their videos? 'Cause if so, a whole 24 hour a day channel that's already popular is much better advertisment than any other music download service could buy.
They could even put the website address beneath the song title, artist, etc. in every video.
Although offering few details, the company said it has worked closely with Microsoft to build a service called Urge that will let listeners experiment with new music, as well as offer "original, hand-crafted content" from MTV and its other cable channels.
Mmmm. Hand-crafted. I can see it now.
The Cyber World
A story about seven strangers who are chosen to live in a random data center. Their lives are recorded, e-mails are logged, and IMs are monitored. See what happens when people lose their Internet connection, and start getting REAL^H^H^H^HCYBER.
Don't forget, next fall:
The second season of DDoS'd.
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"I feel the Urge, the urge to Purge*."
* I.e. Vomit.
Seriously, the world's biggest commercial software vendor getting it together with, possibly, the world's biggest icon of commercial music?!
It's a match made in marketing heaven, and consumer hell.
His name is Robert Paulsen...
Microsoft and MTV are basically already synonymous as it is... Bill Gates, P Diddy, Steve Ballmer, and Paris Hilton hit the clubs every night. Get with the times, yo. Microsoft sofware is just cool... that's why I bought it... you think I buy it for security?
Sounds more like ughh.
I have the Urge to cry...
More like Surge... hopefully its demise will be even quicker than the soft drink.
MTV is a very popular channel, but it's been a long time since I saw a video on it.
Admittedly, I don't watch much MTV, but that's my experience.
They should have named the service 3E - for the third evil !
Why does yahoo do this
If they charge $0.25 per song, or even approach allofmp3.com (although I doubt they'll go that low) I might actually start purchasing music online. Or allow my choice of format.
If this service allows different formats (including lossless), is compatible with multiple players, has minimum DRM, and enters a pricewar with itunes it would be a good thing.
I even might consider paying $1 a song if they sell FLAC or another lossless format.
Of course, that would just leave them the difficult task of coming up with something I want to order in the first place. More top 40 stuff like there is today and no amount of money will entice me to the service.
I'll tolerate anything except intolerance.
More Info on the matter:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/16/parallel_i mports_australia/
Get your Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool Here for FREE! - http://fedora.redhat.com
They're going to have to make this something special to compete with existing online music services. Napster has a subscription service, as well as a "Napster-to-go" scheme whereby users can put music onto compatible mobile devices. This supports WMA DRM seeing as it uses Windows Media Player 10 tech, so it's not like MS can claim exclusive compatibility with that without cutting out the whole Rhapsody range of services. The other main service at the moment is iTunes, which caters for a per-track market, and it the only thing that works with iPods as far as I know. Due to the methods iPods deal with files and DRM, Microsoft won't be able to offer music for those either.
As for the "Original Hand-Crafted content", won't that simply be MTV videos? iTunes already has "a range of music videos and television shows"
It seems to me that MS are trying to fill a hole that's already been covered...
instead of "joined forces to form Urge", should have said "merged to form Urge". and yes, i do love watching dateline nbc.
Depite all the likely flames about big global beasties taking over the world, what's really so bad about this. Consider what happens if Sony ever succeeds in this area and end up with control of the Artist right through to the device, then there just isn't any consumer choice, Artists are forced to sign up with Sony and consumers are forced to sign up with Sony devices.
On the counter-side you have a big evil software/device multinational (MS) doing a partnership with essentially a large music content provider (MTV). Despite the short term anomaly that Apple is causing it probably takes a partnership like this to actually have some threat to Sony without forcing every artist onto one label and closing the industry completely.
Will the combination of a music network and a software company that does not make MP3 players beat this? Sounds more like massive advertising opportunities rather than building an iPod/iTunes killer.
MTV is very much mistaken. 90% of their viewers either want an iPod or have one. Hell, almost every hiphop video bling-blings an iPod around. "Urge" seems to block Macs and iPods. All very lovely, but MTV fails to recognise their target market if you ask me.
MTV has a lot of sway with the younger market, they aren't going after us. and they r quite good at marketing to their target demographic. i know there is a serious lack of details, but i also know that two wrongs make a right..
MTV = Microsoft TV ?
Dude, this is SO AWESOME. Finally, someone is combining the best things on Earth... Microsoft's quality software and MTV's quality music!!!
Now, if only they could toss Wal*mart and McDonald's into the mix!
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
And of course, all of this will be sprinkled with advertisments for Mountain Dew, Microsoft, and Slim Jim.
I'm not fat, just big boned...
I'm psyched about this. Microsoft and MTV are two of the high-profile music-industry players that I have the least interest in doing business with. If they can partner with Sony and its DRM suppliers and hire a few RIAA execs I can have all the big players I want to avoid in one place for convenient one-stop non-shopping.. Obviously they've hired one of more of the naming & branding consultants whose work I despise, that's a nice bonus..
Seriously, though, it's very nostalgic to see MTV get back into the music business. I just hope they remember how it works, it's been, what, fifteen years now since they gave it up to make low-budget drama programs and reality television?
yes
yes
maybe
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
I'm just glad that someone here realized what the hell I was talking about in spite of the Redundant mod. Apparently, too many folks here haven't actually watched MTV since the 1980's. Oh well, can't say I blame 'em.
They'll figure it out soon enough, though. I wonder how long it will be before this new online music service only has content about pimping cars, playing jokes on people, weird people forced to share a house, and so on instead of, well, you know... music.
Is it just me or is it strange that the www.urge.com server is not running a Microsoft Server?
HTTP/1.0 200 OK
Server: Netscape-Enterprise/4.1
Now is the time to put together a package for musicians to build their own CDs and mp3 sites. If that gets done cheap (perhaps as an OSS set-up), AND a bit of marketing is done, this could really expand.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
First they merge with adult TV programming with MS-NBC to insure US news is fair and objective. Now they want to do the same for the MTV generation(s). At least Microsoft does not limit predetory practices to software anymore. Diversification is the key to survival.
This is going to be a failed experiment by MTV and Microsoft unless they realize what Apple has that no one else does. Appple has control of the iPod. If you have an iPod, you can't use DRMed WMA. If MTV and Microsoft think that they are going to make a substantial profit off in the saturated field of non-iPod MP3 players, they are insane. The money is in a service that can compete for the iPod, in addition to other MP3 players.
What MTV and Microsoft has to do to get their foot in the door is offer a service that works with iPods AND offers a different pricing model then iTunes. That is the only way they can possibly compete with iTunes. Anything short of this is going to result in them fighting every other online music company for that tiny sliver of remaining non-iPod users.
I personally would jump at an all you can eat service for my iPod. Hell, I would jump at any sort of pricing options that or ability to escapes AAC lock in for my iPod. I got my iPod as a gift. I would love it if there was a way to escape Apple's monopoly short of throwing out a $300 piece of equipment. If MTV and Microsoft, as much as I loath the both of them, can do it I'll jump. It isn't like I have any love for Apple either.
If they have a plan to defeat Apple, then this will be newsworthy. If they are just jumping in on Napster's model and hoping to sell via the shitty MTV brand, this is a yawner that no one is going to give a shit about.
A $500.000 fine, a release of XP without media player.. And microsoft just ignores it and continues whatever it likes to do..
Apple will probably not take any legal action because Apple is partly owned by microsoft..
If microsoft offers a new service, ok.. If it comes preinstalled with Vista (just like their other MSN and mediaplayer crapware), they may create a serious problem here in europe.. And a reason more not to install vista.
A glitch a day keeps the bugs away.
Great, a Music Video station that doesn't show music videos anymore, teaming up with a software company that no longer produces good software. Did Dante dream this up? What rung of hell am I in now?!?!?
ttyl
Farrell
CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
How many music services does MS have now? 3? Or is that just me?
Do you see what I did there?
I really fear for modern music. Not sure how well the /. community is familiar with guitar tabbing, but it's essentially an ASCII way of rendering guitar music that even AOLers can understand. Now all the major tab sites are being forced to close or remove all tabs for signed artists due to a new music industry function. It's insane; how are such things possibly hurting the bands?
Similarly, Microsoft and MTV are two corporations (a word that has nothing to do with music) that really don't appear to understand music as anything more than a marketable economy, which is just sad. Just like Orwell said the hope is in the Proles, for music, the hope is in the indies.
did you suddenly feel an urge to vomit as well?
Do you suppose they'll have a linux client available?
Retired from software... maybe. Sort of.
Sounds like MS might be developing a portable mp3/wm(av) player. Attempt at an ipod killer? .......... Mtv and MS, sounds like a scary combination! Imagine the super DRM powers vista will inherit as a result.
If this is anything close to the MTV we get over here in Germany, then the only thing they'll offer will be ring tones for your cell phone. But 25 billion of those.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
MTV is no longer all about Music. They now ingrain a culture on their loyal followers. The President of MTV has said that he has more influence on children than their own parents do.
.. the beach house.... people all over each other in skimpy swimsuits talkin about how they are fooling around together... (all be it fun but is that really good for 13 year old kids to aspire to be like this)
Look at that culture.... the real world... fighting, craziness, and whoring
Evolution or ID?
Lossy 128kbps WMA, variable pricing, 2.99, 1.99, 99c per song. 2.99+ for a video (lossy audio, 96kbps, WMV video).
chances of FLAC, or any kind of lossless codec? Equal to the service using MP3 and having 25 cent downloads, which is equal to the chances of Microsoft adding trial CDs of Red Hat in with every box of XP.
Lets combine the two and what do u get??
very expensive Emo Mp3s that crash your computer and advertise every chance they get
sounds pretty convincing.......
The company gave no specifics on launch date beyond saying it would be sometime in 2006.
For those not paying close attention, please note that this is a Microsoft launch date. You'll be lucky if you can still hear music by the time they actually get this launched.
This is just another case of Bill Gates trying to horn in where someone else is making money. Money he feels is rightfully his. Everytime some product or service is successful, Gates moves in and sucks all the oxygen out the space and runs all the inovators out and rebrands it and then makes it incompatible with anything else. Soon after SP-whatever you have to buy yet another version to keep up with the flow of before mentioned services and product that now only come out of Redmond.
I'm surprised that there isn't already a M$ branded online auction site and credit card service like eBay and PayPal. Browsers, word processors, compilers and computer languages, dozens of internet technologies, and on and on. If someone discovers a technology and becomes successful, Gates will figure out a way to weasel his way into the space and take over.
#1 microsoft already has a music store
#2 since when did MTV have anything to do with music?
Last year the CEO of MTV Europe visited my buinsess school and at that time I had asked him if they wanted to enter the online music business, with all the brand awareness, the reach and all. To this he replied that MTV wasn't even remotely interested in this business, with its low profit margins and volumes .He even accused apple of cross subsidizing their music sales with ipod sales and hence making the price point ($0.99 per song) unattractive for most pleayers. Basically he went on and on about how much you have to pay the music studios per song, the number of songs you can sell in a year and how overall the business will be really small, and how MTV would rather use its resources elsewhere. It actually made sense at that time.
So assuming that the economics of the music business haven't really changed, I wonder what has changed? Could it be that Microsoft is just using MTV's reach to push wma, for which it gets licensing fee from all the companies that sell mp3 players with support for wma and ensuring that those companies dont switch to some alternate standard?
What's under yellowstone?
Kidding of course.
:)
:)
I can only imagine a MS iPod wannabe over-heating occasionally in the winter time, and damaging the internal HD if tilted. But the headphones will have a cool "on" button with little lights to tell you when the unit is not functioning.
MS couldn't even get their first store right, so I have little faith that they'll gain any real ground this time around, kind of like their game console in Japan.
Sounds like MS aknowledges they can't beat Apple in audio, and go directly for music videos. I don't like MTV's music. But, like it or not, we are not their audience and when it comes to music videos, MTV is a strong player.
You want to market to Millenials, you have to have a brand that is edgy and in your face, and must include the words Extreme, Ultimate, or Look at Me Daddy. It has to exude counter-culture... not real counter-culture, but pseudo-counter-culture that those "viral" marketing hucksters peddle.
Millenials are so consumed with being revolutionary, but in reality they are marketed to at every turn and are quick to consume everything that they THINK is different than what their parents had. Yeah, enjoy that Boost Mobile phone and Amp'D beverage... no, they're not mega-corp products, are they?
[ With deepest apologies to Mark Knofler and Dire Straits ]
"Money for Microsoft" by Dire Warning
Sung by Steve Ballmer, backing by Bill Gates
You must buy ...
You must buy Win-XP
You must buy ...
You must buy Win-XP
You must buy ...
You must buy Win-XP
You must buy ...
You must buy Win-XP
Now look at them bozo's that's the way you do it
You lock them always on the Win-XP
That ain't workin' thats the way we do it
Money for Microsoft from Dot Net usage fees
Now that ain't workin' thats the way we do it
Lemme tell ya them guys are dumb
Maybe get a licence on your little desktop
Maybe get a licence on everyone
They gotta install Media Player
Passport Dot-Net deliveries
They gotta take these applications
They gotta take these subscription fees
Look at that, look at that
See the little Win-Troll spreading spin we makeup
Yeah buddy thats our own fear
That little Win-Troll got them always complain'
That little Win-Troll makes us billionares
They gotta install Media Player
Passport Dot-Net deliveries
They gotta take these applications
They gotta take these subscription fees
They shoulda learned to use the Linux
They shoulda learned to use them Macs
Look at that user, we got it stickin' to the customer
Man we could have some fun
And their down there, whats that? Protesting noises?
Plannin' on me dancing like a chimpanzee
That ain't workin' thats the way we do it
Get the money for Microsoft get our usage fee
They gotta install Media Player
Passport Dot-Net deliveries
They gotta take these applications
They gotta take these subscription fees
That ain't workin' thats the way we do it
You lock them always on the Win-XP
That ain't workin' thats the way we do it
Money for Microsoft from the license fee
Money for Microsoft from subscription fees
David Mohring - Original author
See: A plea for relief from Microsoft's escalating anti-competitive tactics.
An open letter to antitrust, competition, consumer and trade practice monitoring agency officials worldwide.
So let me get this right, this is the MTV that repeats the same 6 songs all day long. That makes this a really cheap music service for MS-MTV to implement. Minimal download bandwidth and a couple of thumb drives and they're up and running! Can't wait to keep on *not* spending my $s with them.
"If it's lost, it'll turn up. Things always do" "I love it when a plan comes together"
Back in the 80s there was this channel that played music videos 24/7. It didn't work. I wonder what ever happened to them?
* Si hoc legere scis numium eruditionis habes *
MS and MTV. Two great tastes that taste great together. One sticks to the roof of your mouth and the other makes you break out.
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
Brings to mind an old computing acronym: GIGO
There's been speculation about why Microsoft's anti-spyware tool only tries to "correct" or "fix" Sony/BMGs rootkit instead of flat-out removing it, and now I think we know why: they intend to do something similar.
Pretty sad that the theft poster got a higher rating than you did. At least the artists get something at other sites, they don't get a penny from allofmp3.
the scratching of #2 pencils on accounting entry forms.
:-)
This is going to end the same way as Microsoft begins an project.
Microsoft is buying MTV as a loss-leader in the hopes of accomplishing something usable by the third version.
If it turns out they were wrong, they spin it off into oblivion. (Heard from 'Slate' lately?
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Who cares, it will carry the same old plagiarized,
derivative pap from a bunch of talentless wankers who take really good original music by brilliant bands and pass it off as their own.
I've been waiting for a subscription music service where I can download only the overplayed top 40 music!
Cheesy Movie Night
The only price I would pay Microsoft or MTV is free. Two evil giants that I hate vehomently.
I kill harmless processes for sport
It's nice to see MTV back in the music business.
WMA is usually reviewed as bad but hey it is the format MS choose and they will damn well push it down peoples throat no matter what.
As for MTV. A music provider? Since when? Reality tv show is more like it. A 24 hour advertisement channel going to sell an MS service. If you can't see the sign of the anti-christ in this you must have had your eyes removed.
I swear when I saw the headline a chill went down my spine. This will result in a shallow service that only offers the most commercial music but will be able to brainwash people with a 24/7 advertisement channel.
Sony is evil but sony is also still the company that defended the VCR. That today Sony BGM has such an unhealthy control over the hardware side is bad but MS is no different.
They are the two evil empires of the cold war but to a certain extent they also keep each other in check. Neither can go too far for fear that consumers will just flock to the other.
I frankly don't want to see MS starting to deal music, this could very well lead to MS like Sony deciding that that business segment gets to control the other segments. At the moment MS still realizes that to a certain extent they have little to gain by a total DRM system. Just like Philips has no business interest (since they sold their music division) in protecting content to the extent the music biz wants. So Philips can sell DVD rippers because they don't give a damn what you do with it just as long as you do it with theirs.
MS selling music would only increase their desire to make a DRM pc. Not good.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
After all
You are:
Funding the Russian mafia (if you honestly don't believe this you are absolutely mindboggling niave)
Who in turn extorts and kills people.
Just because you like your freedom.
Just friggin download from BT, P2P or somewhere else and stop supporting the Russian mafia.
The fact that their logo resembles Apple's Quicktime was a bit of a surprise.
apple.com/quicktime
urge.com
It'll never beat the value of iTunes, even if they do have name recognition. I predict another MSNBC, which is a third place runner in a three man race.
On a side note, didn't RealNetworks recently announce a settlement and a partnership with Microsoft aimed at taking on iTunes?
Gee, how's that workin' out for you there, Real?
combine forces to give us:
The URGE to purge!
Oh,yeah. This is a iPod killer for sure.
But you got yourselve an iPod. Good for you but this hardly then locks you into Apple. You can A: sell it and get another player or B: not use iTunes. There is still the shocking capability that only the most leet people know about getting your content on a revolutionary new media called the CD and throught the magic of an CD-ripper convert and place it on your iPod.
Saying Apple has a monopoly on either music or mp3 players is like saying Ferrari has a monopoly on fast cars. Sure sure, if you think fast cars you think Ferrari but it is hardly like you got no choice. And if you were lucky to be given one as a present (anyone want to give me one?) you would hardly be locked into the Ferrari Gassoline Monopoly.
I can't stand people who use the term lock-in were there is none. You got a choice, your just to lazy or ill informed to see it. And as for looking to MS to free you from a perceived lock-in... [CENSOR] [CENSOR] [CENSOR] [CENSORRED] [CENSOR] [CENSOR] and [CENSOR][CENSOR] [CENSOR] with a [CENSOR] on [CENSOR] you [CENSOR].
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The funny thing about this release, is that urge.com, the site that is registered to MTV Networks for this MTV/Microsoft music thing, uses the Netscape icon. Check it out for yourself. http://www.urge.com/ http://www.urge.com/favicon.ico Somebody at MTV has a bit of an anti-microsoft mentality!
MTV is not a record label, they don't have any music artists signed to them. They'll have to secure a licensing agreement for each and every song to get music to this service. That means not only does MTV/M$ get a cut, the labels get a cut. And from their history of whining about iTunes, they'll demand a hefty cut. It's no surprise that the prices haven't been announced yet, I doubt they'll be able to compete with iTunes with so many hands in the pie.
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
Where else am I going to download my Top 100 lists, like Top 100 Songs Featuring Bands With Big Hair?
The name makes me think of finding a Urinal.
Or maybe that's the coffee I've just drunk. Whatever.
do they consider this a good strategy? mtv hasn't been about music--let alone been cool--since the 80s. looks like two more elephants lumbering off to the elephant graveyard together.
MTV + Microsoft?
Woohoo, Real World podcasts in DRMed WMA. Music? Maybe songs from whatever boy band, bubblehead blonde, and gansta rapper the music labels are pushing this week. Forget about any depth in the music catalog. Expect singles to cost more than on iTunes, be available for a month or two, drop to $0.89 for a week and then disappear from the catalog.
And you know MS will choose a format that locks out the iPod and claim "choice" in an effort to sell players that license MS technology. Nevermind the vast marketshare iPods have; rather than court iPod owners, they'll try to push their own proprietary format. (But it's not really proprietary because more than one DAP manufacturer uses it. See? It's open. It's choice. Choice is good.)
And expect either a Windows only software client, or a web app that only works with Windows IE. Even a Flash based front end would be better than whatever they dream up.
Rag on Apple all you want, but they developed an easy to use end-to-end product (iTunes + iPod) that did one thing well (no FM tuner, no voice recording, just play music). They started small - Mac only, got things tuned up nicely, and went on to dominate. Now that they've established their brand, they are slowly adding features - podcasts, photos, now video.
I think MS+MTV could give Apple a run if they:
a) Offer songs in better quality than Apple. Use 300kbps as the default quality. Offer lower quality versions for cheaper, and near or better than CD quality for a bit more.
b) Really work the music video angle. Apple may have a headstart here, but MTV may just have the branding power to take the lead as THE music video source. They should have the back catalog, but rights may be a big sticking point.
c) Capitalize on the 80s nostalgia. The 80s saw the birth of the music video. Put all the cheesy early videos on there you can. Let users rate and comment on them. Build a community around mocking/loving that old stuff.
d) And as much as I hate the current MTV, they should leverage the MTV programming. Yes, podcasts from all their current shows should be there. *shudder*
- Jasen.
Microsoft missed the beat again. It took them a couple of years to becaome a follower once more.
Microsoft too young to die too old to rock and roll.
Overkill?
-- it's ridiculous how many people misspell ridiculous... (damn, damn, damn...)
The entire industry is incredibly immature but then just try to buy a new car from a non-brand dealer. You know like a car supermarket where the fords and fiats are next to each other? We the consumer are always screwed. Get used to it.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
It has completely gone down hill as well. Personally, music videos have gotten so stupid that I don't even care to watch them. I'd rather just switch over to the XM stations on my satellite tv for music.
Cosponsored by MTV... Does that mean that in a few years, you won't be able to download music, just reality TV shows like Real World?
Free MacMini
to sodomize a competitor,
because it feels so good, to exercise my big fat monopoly this way...
yeah yeah yeah!
No Mac, no digg!
(Sorry... wrong website)
Apple has sold, what, 38 million iPods so far, and analyst estimates are that the sales will continue to increase their markshare? Apple is also approaching 1 billion songs sold. 1 billion. That's just insane. And this MS/MTV store will not be compatible with those millions of iPods? Uh-huh. That's a plan for success. Isolate your offerings from the majority of the market. Hmm... who does that remind me of? Oh, that's right: Apple circa 1992. Remember back when Apple refused to be compatible with Windows/IBM PCs which was the dominant platform? How far did that get Apple?
MS is about to learn a similar lesson that when you're not the dominant player, you have to play by the big guy's rules. I don't think MS is accustomed to not being the playground bully, and Apple is really cagey about how they do things, staying about 5-6 steps ahead of everyone and rapidly discarding old ideas that others are trying hard to copy. I don't see MS and MTV making much headway with this move. If Wal-Mart had to throw themselves on their own sword and give in to Apple and the iPod, then MS and MTV don't stand much chance at all.
And what are they doing here?
Geez, but you guys sound a lot like somone's parents. If you're over 16, you aren't supposed to like MTv. If you did, they wouldn't be doing their job.
What does MTV have to do with music these days?
GENERATION 25: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social exper