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Dell XPS 'Gaming' PC Review
cojsl writes "[H]ard|OCP has an entertaining review of a Dell XPS 400 'Gaming PC'." From the article: "If the Dimension XPS400 is any indication, Dell considers computer gamers a joke. Harsh, yes. But we think it's accurate. The system itself is a decent gaming platform and the hardware was well built. It was put together decently with parts that can pull the weight required to play today's graphically intensive games. But we couldn't even install one of the most popular games on the market, Sims 2, and trying to play other popular games would lock up the system and gaming sessions, when they would run, would get interrupted. The pre-installed programs that Dell chose to include on its computer were almost certainly the cause of all these problems, and unloading these programs from the boot-up routine fixed the problems."
how will God know who to smite if you post anonymously?
Why should their gaming PC's work any better than their business PC's?
What? Are you expecting anything different folks. It is a dell, after all.
Dude, you're getting a machine that doesn't work with games!
The manufacturer of this PC's name rhymes with Hell, wich is Kick Ass for a gamer's PC to be named...
I think Dell makes a good case here for why vendors should be forced to package clean OS discs and why Microsoft is helping these fools cause headaches by making it difficult to reinstall the OS. The first thing that should happen with these machines is that the existing installation ought to be wiped and replaced with an absolutely clean version of the OS, no software, just the OS. Critical updates ought to be packaged on discs as well.
But instead you get "backup CDs" (not even provided in the case of this Dell!) which bring you back to the OEM's idea of a starting point. That's probably fine for most desktops, but on laptops you never know which uninstall is about to break the touchpad or cause the monitor to stop working.
I keep Win2K around, with all its slow bootup times and lousy hardware support, just because I am able to reinstall when I need to. And, it's just so good that I hardly ever need to. XP? It may be technically better, but unless I have the ability to reinstall it on my own machines at my whim, it's useless.
Jesus saved me from my past. He can save you as well.
The important is that the hardware is powerful and the price is good.
Later you can install your favourite OS and run your best games!
Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
I wouldn't help you either. Is it just me or does the reviewer seem to have a chip on his shoulder the whole way through?
I like this kind of "whole experience" review, but I think things like taking "two clicks" to get to the relevant system on the website is being way too pedantic.
__Updated Thrice Daily Adult Videos
Gaming, it's as easy as.... oh wait no it's not. Who expected anything different from Dell?
/.ers think of DirectX overall- are they relatively satisfied with how it works from a programmer's (as opposed to a user's)perspective, or does it suck 9 shades of butt and the world would be a better place without it? Just a question cause DX never really comes up on /.
It's crap like this that tends to push gamers away from the PC and towards consoles (the occasion XB360 lockup being the exception that pees all over this post).
Fortunately for me I've got my machine just about stable on most games I try on it, but it does take a lot of effort to keep a machine up to date, most problems being fixed by new drivers & directX updates.
Dell should supply those gaming machines with just a clean copy of windows XP (or as clean as XP gets0) and the latest drivers and version of directX and let gamers screw things up themselves.
Oh, that machine looks like crap as well. Please Dell hire a few designers. Your cases make me want to scrape my eyes out with a rusty spoon.
As a side note, i'd like to ask what
When the posters fear their moderators, there is tyranny; when the moderators fears the posters, there is liberty.
(for those too lazy to read the article:)
"My mouse pad is broken."
Without mincing words: We had significant quality of use issues with this computer.
First and most obviously, we started having problems with our optical mouse. Sometimes it would wildly fly across the screen, other times we had trouble controlling it. Those of you who have ever tried to use an optical mouse on a shiny surface know what I'm talking about.
The reason why (and I can't believe I'm typing this) was that the mouse pad that Dell provided was too shiny and reflective to be used with their own, branded, optical mouse.
It's no longer a tech support urban legend. We have a documented case of a computer mouse pad being "broken."
Basically the article says the hardware is OK, but the preinstalled stuff sucks.
...that so many people have turned to consoles, when you can't even install brand new games on a brand new Dell PC without lockups and crashes?
Does anyone really want to be on the phone with India on Christmas morning trying to get a Sims game working for their kid? Do yourself a favor and just get them a Gamecube with Smash Bros and RE:4.
Whenever the offence inspires less horror than the punishment, the rigour of penal law is obliged to give way...
I may sound harsh and all, but I always said, those who prefer buying prebuilt, preinstalled boxes from big players all deserve what they get. Yes, the argument always comes that most people don't know crap about what they buy and that not every PC buyer has a friend who knows something about computers, but even considering that, I cannot say anything else. And the part where Dell emplyees can't put together a system that would work flawlessly when such an unknowing citizen buys such a box, well, that's no news either. Again, just eat up what you cooked.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
Why not buy one? It comes with twice the price and all spyware preinstalled! Yeeeei!
Honestly I could NEVER understand people buying branded PC-s (except laptops where we simply have no choice). Is it the fancier case designs?
I don't know why it is that vendors insist on preloading so much crap on their machines when they ship them but it drives me crazy.
:P
We buy Toshiba laptops at my place of work and whenever we get a new one in, its preloaded with the Toshiba default build.. and its pretty awful! When you first fire it up you have to run the gauntlet of about 5-10 pop up windows from apps all letting you know that they are there and running. Cast a glance down to the system tray and there are about 11 or 12 memory resident apps all sitting there taking their cut of the memory and CPU time - one was a Toshiba app that basically takes over the Microsoft power management suite with a far more complex and convoluted piece of software!
I don't understand it personally. Windows might grind the gears of plenty of people but these days its quite a sleek, easy to us OS - why must they insist on bundling all this crap on the machine which must surely confuse users, and give them so much more overhead in places that they don't even need it! Not to mention the quite obvious performance impact on the machine.
I still prefer to make my own PC's - most recent build was for my girlfriend - a really nice Biostar IDEQ barebones box based on an AMD Sempron/NForce3 250 combo! It goes like a rocket, and there is no clutter and crapola on it! Other than Windows
"Hey! Unless this is a nude love-in, get the hell off my property!!"
Step 1) Make your backup installation CD
Step 2) Format your hard drive and install from scratch
The backup CD, at least for me, is a full XP Pro installation CD without all the bundled software that comes on the pre-installed hard drive or the system recovery CD.
And by the way, if you email support, they will send you an XP disc and a drivers disc (for your model) in the mail for free. It took about 3 days.
Personally, I just wiped out the hard drive and installed Suse 10.
It's a nice machine but it took forever to clean up. These guys weren't exaggerating when they said it's bogged down with bloatware. No, I really don't want to sign up for AOL, use your personal firewall, browse the MusicMatch online store, purchase Quickbooks for a low low price, participate in your survey, buy a year's subscription of virus definitions, mow Michael Dell's lawn, tell Peter Norton my life story, yadda yadda yadda, ad nauseam. Really, I don't. No, I mean really. Really, goddamn it!
It's pretty amazing that other software was prevented from installing correctly and performance was degraded to a considerable extent. The story implied that about 80MB of RAM was consumed by the bloatware, but the computer has 1GB RAM. Assumedly it's not chewing all the CPU, so what exactly is it doing that breaks The Sims, for example?
The first thing I ever do with a new vendor system after I have unpacked it and switched it on is remove the malaise of pre-installed rubbish that comes with it. This isn't just restricted to Dell either, Sony are terrible for it, dozens of programs all vying to be your default $whatever player/reader/editor and sneaky programs that don't tell you that they're time-limited trial versions until you've been through the setup and configuration steps and actually try to run it for the first time.
Norton "Password Manager" needs a password before it will uninstall, and you have to enter a password in order to get that password, and is that password provided anywhere? Is it fuck. But please register now!
I never did understand this.
Why do people spend $3k on a computer to play the Sims ?
Can't you just by a $100 playstation to do this ?
This is not sarcasm or any other kind of flamebait, but why is gaming on PC's so important ?
Can't you get a $500 PC for random computer work and then a $100 playstation (or random game system) for games ?
Just a question.
So why buy a Dell? If you're going to wipe the drive and do an install from scratch you're losing any benefit from their install. If you're after a system for gaming wouldn't you want to build it yourself? Is it just the ~50 bucks saved?
I've never owned or used a Dell so I don't know what the draw is other than the obvious of buying in bulk.
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
I can't help it. I never bought a Dell, but with a new job I didn't have time to build a rig so I bought an XPS 400. Anyone with half a brain and some hardware knowledge knows you can't just remove Dell's included software. You just format the disk and install a new one from scratch. You are paying for an OS and hardwarem, but atleast in my case, I just wanted the hardware. Nuke the OS and start from scratch, it's a wonderful thing.
The pre-installed programs that Dell chose to include on its computer were almost certainly the cause of all these problems
Wouldn't you decide to give such a system a fresh install any way?
If the Dimension XPS400 is any indication, Dell considers computer gamers a joke.
Any gamer that goes to Dell for a computer IS a joke. It's like the audiophile that goes to Best Buy for all his HT needs. It's like grocery shopping at a 7-Eleven.. It's like calling Geek Squad for computer help. It's like going to McDonalds for a Caesar salad...
It's like buying a TV at a grocery store. It's like wine in a box. It's like Bourbon made in California.. or Scotch made in Canada. It's like calling Will and Grace smart TV.
It's like a house with wheels on it. It's like a hand-crank garage door opener. It's like glasses purchased at a book store. It's like going to Macy's for a PDA. It's like getting high on cigarettes.
It's like rocking out to Madonna or being entertained by Bio Dome. It's like getting fashion advice from Paris Hilton. It's like getting religious advice from Tom Cruise.
Well anyway.. I hope you get the point.
--- We need more Ron Paul!
That bloatware crap on there is there for a very big reason, money. In the cut throat margin of the PC business, that bloatware crap gives money back to Dell to make some money off the system.
I like cheese.
He says this to complain"
"For example, our CD/DVD Autorun was disabled - or more accurately, "broken" - by Corel Photo Downloader. [...] After we clicked on "no thanks," the computer wouldn't go through the normal autorun process - we installed the games by clicking on My Computer"
Yes, and Dell did you a favor, albeit by accident.
You don't want Autorun enabled. If the Sony incident taught you nothing else, it should have taught you "AUTORUN==BAD".
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
The password is usually "symantec".
Every time a friend of mine has a problem with a dell, I reformat it and fail to include all the preinstalled garbage that dell foisted on them from the get go. Every time the friend is astonished that their computer actually works now, can play games, run other software etc., and over all feels like "A brand new computer!!!".
I explain it to everyone all the time. Dell and other companies that install their garbage should jump on the clue train and only install a fresh clean install of windows, and maybe firefox so that people don't get virii as easily.
The average user doesn't NEED symantec etc. if they are just trained properly or even half-ass on firefox.
rhY
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
I have similar problems as presented in this review with my Gateway notebook. I'm just glad I never tried to do gaming with this thing. However, I can easily relate to the pre-installed hardware trouble.
I instantly relate with the tech-support trouble. I blame this on the fact that Joe Smith over the phone in some third world country (who has a fake phone-based life to talk about) is just reading a long sheet of instructions. I actually ask them what call center they are based in, and take note of when I get good technical service. I can easily say that I get "I am from the USA" from the worst tech support agents, and things like "Oh, I'm from the San Fransisco call center, why?" from better more pleasing agents.
If I was paying for support when I bought this notebook, I got ripped off. However, I bought these notebooks because my girlfriend and I could easily use them together, they where cheap (over $200 off in rebates) and ended up getting a notebook as fast as my desktop for less than $600. We both knew that we would have trouble with Gateway, but they did replace her notebook when she broke the LCD within the first 8 days in her bookbag.
You left out "It's like trying to be funny on Slashdot", Alanis.
Soko
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
It keep asking password for hera.hardocp.com on firefox
I have an XPS Generation 2. Its 2 years old roughly. I'd place it Jan-Feb 04. Its a fairly good machine. The only problem I have had was my vid card fan, a 9800XT died on me, and was running idle at 77 degrees C, and the one time I caught it before it finally crapped out it was running 111 degrees C. I call Dell Support and got a woman with a very foreign accent, which made it difficult to understand and I had to repeat things, the other problem was I could not communicate my e-mail reliably, spelling it out to a computer would have been easier then the way the woman on the phone was interupting my letters. I tell the woman on the phone the problem with the card, how I tried to reseat it and check the power plug on the card. She reqs a new one(actually refurbished by my guess in the packaging but whatever it works). I get a few days ago, insert it works fine. All this time I got probably 2-3 calls above this to my cell phone which was definitely good communication, again the only problem was the lack of speaking English that wasn't in an American accent that I am used to. The only problem I had was they sent me an invoice, basically the price of the card in case I didn't send it back. The scary part is they aren't even charging the current market price, nor the price from 2 years ago, but some other weird price that comes to $600. So thats my Dell horror story with an XPS. The funny thing with 9800XT, is Dell put their oem bios on it, and it disabled the overdrive feature, pretty much the only reason to get an XT. Then you had to go to the support forums to find the flashrom for it.
The only thing I think they could improve on is dust covers and easier access to the screens for the fans. removing all the drives to just clean the front grill is a pain. I did receive a few disks with plenty of software, and one definitely with windows on it. They have their own recovery software, its annoying, and I wish I had a WinXP Pro disk, or a WinXP Home disk for that matter. I blame Microsoft for that problem though, simply because they should be pushing it on people. When someone wants a computer fixed or whatever, I cant do it because if I have to reformat, or reinstall, it 10x easier instead of making another visit.
I will say one thing, getting a Dell is a big waste of money, you can build one for much cheaper and it be better suited for you. The Reason I got mine though is the 4-5 year warranty
If what you are reading sounds funny, or sarcastic, lame, or stupid
it is because it is supposed to be. just laugh
Seems a large amount of money is changing hands regarding deals to preinstall certain software. My recent purchase of a Sony Vaio FS-295XP, the pre-installed software was a joke, it made the system VERY sluggish, most of it would not uninstall fully (or in the case of "Norton SystemCrawl 2005", would not uninstall at all), and large amounts of it were trial-ware, which expired. The rest was totally surplus to requirements. I would have formatted and re-installed XP PRo from scratch, but Sony decided for me, that I should not be entitled to a copy of the XP Pro media. I would have not bothered with the Vaio, but all manufacturers are just as bad as each other.
First thing I did when I got my custom rig (I spec'ed it, but my hw skillz
And when I went home to visit my parents, I did the same thing to their box. And somehow, they've survived.
Don't get me wrong: I'm not an unabashed Linux fanboy. I wrestle with hardware compatability, video codec lameness, etc.
But: once you get a Linux box up and running (for instance Debian or Ubuntu), you pretty much don't have any of the problems the author described.
Perhaps more importantly: Free Linux distros can focus fully on what makes the user happy. They have no need for idiotic vendor lock-in tactics, buggy product tie-ins, or denying you access to the OS install disks, etc. It's simply a complete non-issue. This is probably the main reason I love Linux even when not programming - I get to totally avoid this category of stupidity.
With Linux, yes it's often a rocky road getting it to work, but the distro authors and I are on the *same* side, without reservation. We just want me to have a system that's lean and stable and productive. And that's what I get.
n/t
You can play games in Windows!
Like there is anything else you can do in Windows - it was made for games!
I remember back in Win 3.1 there was a game of some bad guy popping up on a desktop here and there, and you would have to "shoot" him by clicking at him. Microsoft has almost successfully modified this arcade game for online play, and called it IE: the same rules, just the bad guy still has problems with rendering - it renders as some rectangle windows with some promo text inside. But you still have to click at it as fast as possible, to close it and go back to whatever you was doing before.
And who can forget the infamous "save it before I crash" brain-teaser, where you have to anticipate the machine going to crash and to save your document before it does, not after?
i don't understand why people even give Dell the time of day even for reviews.. i've never used a system that has worked.. its such a sad shame that college campuses, and offices all across the world use Dell products because of the price.. all because they are cheap.. the money saved, is easily put back into repairing the confounded machines.. don't even get me started with the laptops.. i've had 5 customers bring in their laptops over the span of 1 month, and their screens no longer worked.. Dell is by far the Packard Bell of the modern day..
*plays the Apogee theme song music*
go on then. you're all talk...
While I'll agree that Dell can't exactly make a gaming PC, it has to be said that refurbished Dells can be a source of quality parts for a good price, assuming you purchase their higher line machines and not their low end stuff. I'm really only a casual gamer so I may not count, but the last time I did a full system upgrade, I found that there was absolutely no way I could build an entire machine for cheaper than it would cost me to purchase a refurbished Dell and then add a few key parts. I bought a refurbished Dimension 8300 and 19" monitor, tossed in another 512MB of RAM, binned the 64MB GeForce 5200 in favor of a Radeon 9800 Pro (top dog in October '03, even despite pesky driver issues), and installed a SB Live! I had lying around. Yes, the preinstalled OS was a joke and I had to do a clean install, but in the end I calculated that I probably came out ~$150 - $250 cheaper than if I had built it myself and bought a brand new monitor. And it was only mildly less labor intensive than building an entire PC from scratch. I'm still using the PC now, albeit with even further upgrades from stock.
If Murphy's Law can go wrong, it will.
Dell does that to all their consumer level machines, one of the things that got me interested in building my own. I still remember the first time booting up a home built with an OEM OS disk, it was so clean. No AOL or other ISP's, no trialware and it booted so much faster.
Guess I'm a little surprised some users would be willing to reinstall the OS to get rid of the junk Dell loads their machines with at the expense of your time.
It costs a little more to build your own but you get such great components. And it doesn't come loaded with junkware.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
forcing customers to use software preinstalled on their hard drive to burn their own backup discs is absolutely the worst policy ever. this is of course just one problem of this dell model, but so many companies are starting to do this, and they need to stop.
most people who don't have a clue what they are doing won't even think to perform the important step of making a backup disc, and will only think about restore discs after their computer fails. then they are completely out of luck.
i will never buy a PC from a manufacterer ever, except for apple. it's always a bad deal, anyone who takes the 1 hour of time to learn how to build their own computer will reap the benefits of overclocking, having a fresh, clean version of windows OEM edition for $80-$130, and having infinate customizability.
as for notebooks, well, i just have to buy the least Dell-like brand availible. buying off-brands is actually strangely enough the best way to go in this age. and usually you end up getting the best deal and similar quality, since all the major manufacterers buy from the exact same Chinese suppliers that the smaller brands do.
Is anyone else wondering why this article is under "Windows", just because it happens ot run windows?
Seems strange to me since the problems are caused by the extra software, and not windows itself.
What about "AUTORUN==AUTOINFECT" ?
... it's Dell's software you wouldn't be buying a gamer's PC from them in the first place.
We installed Windows XP Media Center Edition from the Windows Installation disc that we received from Dell. The computer would not let us delete the NTFS partition that contained our old Windows install, so we let the setup overwrite our Windows directory. The end result was a clean Windows install on a partition still cluttered with programs we neither wanted nor needed...
We then tried to install Windows MCE by booting from the DVD-ROM instead of by rebooting from Windows. This time we were able to get Windows Setup to delete the NTFS partition containing the previous install, and finally installed a clean copy of Windows.
It wouldn't let you format the drive because when you install from "windows" rather than booting off the CD, it copies the files to the hard disk before launching the setup process. i.e. Formatting the drive would delete the setup files that setup needs to run. When you boot off the CD, it copies the initial files into memory and only copies the actual windows files *after* you choose where and how to install it.
and it is because of this very issue I know a few people who run without AV protection. Norton is the king of annoyances but some free solutions can be just as bad.
The biggest annoyance is that these types of programs love to pop up windows and take focus from whatever application is in use regardless if that application was in full screen (usually games). Now if it was some notication of a hack/virus/etc it could be understood, but no, Norton and many AV programs will do this for simple updates! Hell even JAVA from Sun pops up a little floater above the task bar.
Developers need to realize that many of us prefer to have the comfort of protection but without the annoyance factor. We do not need to know your updating. We do need to know if you cannot update. We don't need pop-ups that tell us updates are available, a simple tray icon is sufficient. Lastly never ever interrupt any full screen application unless the world is ending.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Damn, the first thing I do when I get a new dell is: :)
start->control panel->add/remove programs and remove with wold abandon. I usually wipe "trial security package", all the dell quickset crap, any dell support crap, and any other software that I just don't want in there. Doesn't EVERYBODY?
Horns are really just a broken halo.
The problems ranged from 'Delayed write failed' on one, to overheated hardware in another. The boxes are used for running Solidworks and UG mostly. We replaced them with some homegrown fx-55 boxes which are working so much better. Yes, they run linux also. Plan is to dual-boot to run Unigraphics and Novell desktop 9 on a trial basis. The boxes cost under $2k
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
I recently had to deal with one of these "gaming" PC's at work. We're a small, regional computer shop that winds up doing a lot of Dell's on-site tech. support calls. This person had bought a brand new XPS and it was supposed to be a very simple call - just set the thing up. According to Dell's guidelines: take it out of the box, plug everything in, make sure it boots to Windows. The call wound up taking me well over an hour. This machine didn't want to cooperate at all. It was all USB, no legacy ports at all...and some moron at Dell didn't bother to check to see if the keyboard was USB or not - it wasn't. The motherboard was stuck in some sort of "manufacturing mode" that insisted on booting off the network and had to be re-configured. Then the machine took a good 15 minutes to boot into Windows. 15 minutes! Once the machine booted up there was a good 10 minutes of programs popping up and asking for activation/registration/whatever... Finally got the machine up and running and called it a day.
Next week we got another Dell service call...same location... They wanted us to REPLACE the RAM. Work order said some RAM was defective. When I got on-site the owner explained to me that the RAM wasn't defective, it just wasn't there. They'd ordered it with 1 GB RAM (and that IS what was written on their invoice), but they only got 512 MB RAM. Spent over an hour on hold with Dell's outstanding tech. support trying to convince them to let me leave the 512 MB on-site rather than replace one stick and send the other back... They wouldn't let me. So I had to replace the one stick and mail 512 MB back.
Next week we got another Dell service call...same location again... This time it was to UPGRADE the RAM. They sent out a 1 GB stick of RAM, but the motherboard is dual-channel and the owner actually has a clue...he doesn't want 1 stick of RAM, he wants 2 sticks so he can actually take advantage of the dual-channel motherboard. Of course, by now he thoroughly understands that I've got basically no say in what happens. He's mad, but not at me. I upgrade the RAM, give him his 1 stick of 1 GB. He's on the phone yelling at Dell as I walk out the door.
I thoroughly expect us to get a new service call for this poor guy this week.
The Author(s) seem to have an anti-Dell stance, but all the problems they experienced were a bit much.
The overall point of having a 'Clean OS recovery disk' and an 'Added Software disk' is the best point of the Article.
This would be an excellent approach to support - the 2 CDs would allow end users to decide how to restore their system.
The On-Site hardware repair guy did an excellent job, NO he shouldn't be wasting his time and your time
to test the CD Drive, the Testing was already done, and the RMA means he explicitly should NOT test it.
The drive was pronounced DEAD by tech support, his job is to swap parts and then get out of your way.
To complain about him not wasting another 50 minutes of time testing something already known to be dead is stupid.
The 'Clean OS Recovery Disk' and 'Value Added Disk' would save Dell, HP, Gateway, and all the other companies thousands of hours of tech support, and Millions of dollars of lost profit.
The improved customer service and many happy gamers (and business users) would just be a side benefit!
I've never considered buying a Dell home/gaming PC, as there's plenty of competition in that area, and I usually find better and cheaper alternatives or simply build my own. However, for standard office workstations, the Dell kit is an absolute bargain. I've bought dozens of these machines over the years and have been very happy with them in terms of price, build & performance.
I work as a consultant for many small to medium businesses, and I recommend Dell for workstations and small workgroup servers in most cases, and as long as you don't actually have to speak to someone at Dell about units ordered via the Internet (don't get me started on that) the experience is very efficient, you can save a fortune, and end up with very good kit for peanuts.
I've never had reason to fault the quality of the build or components, and whilst I tend to find their add-on options a little more expensive than I can get them for seperately, it usually makes sense to order them at the same time to keep things nice and simple. Dell obviously know that, and with reported working margins of only around 10%, you can hardly blame them, it's a business not a charity after all.
For the past few years though, as many have already posted, the machines have arrived full of trial-ware and Dell cut down versions of commercial packages that nobody in a business environment is even vaguely interested in. My first job is always to remove this crud, which can take up to 30 minutes per machine. The reason? I'm pretty damn certain that there's a financial benefit to Dell by putting trial versions of commercial software from these companies on all their machines, and for the low-spec workstations would explain how they manage to achieve such low price points.
I guess you just have to ask yourself would you rather spend 30 minutes uninstalling the unwanted software and tidying things up the first time you boot the machine, or spend extra money getting/building a machine to save a little time?
The real question is the dell still tacky in its feeling? are the keys very cheap feeling, does the overall feel of the build quality improve?
Added bonus, XP was NOT included with the purchase!
17" WUXGA Active Matrix LCD
Pentium M 2.0GHZ - 2.26GHZ
nVIDIA GeForce Go 7800 GTX with 256mb of DDR3
1024 MB DDR2 533
80.0 GB 5400rpm SATA HD (SATA and other options)
Integrated CMOS Video Camera/4-in-1 Card Reader
8x DVD + - w/ combo drive
Microsoft Windows XP Home and Pro optional
10/100/1000 Mbps Ethernet
Internal V.90 Fax/Modem
Internal Wireless 802.11 A/B/G(Standard)
Gay.
Aside from the curiosity that they have someone listed as a "Grammatical (sic) and Spelling Editor -- whose duties evidently do not extend to punctuation (should be: manufacturers'), this passage translates as: "normally, we only review stuff we can get for free -- we paid for this one." I don't have a problem with the practice of reviewing Hardware from the retail perspective: indeed, for similar reasons and about the same time, Tom's Hardware has taken the same step. What's worrisome is the curious mix of the "Consumer Reports" style with an allusion to a failed negotiation with Dell's Marketing Department. Well, okay, maybe not an allusion: it is conceivable that nobody at [H]ard OCP tried to contact "the largest manufacturer in North America" for a "review copy" deal. It is conceivable, but not likely.
So at the start of the review, the editors tell us that Dell "won't play ball", and they probably spent around $3000 in taxes and restocking fees. The review that follows, of course, will not reflect these facts.
And the review that follows is a beauty: tearing into Dell for all those awful bundling practices they negotiate with third parties to bring the price down further, for not including a recovery diskette, then charging $11 for an OS CD, and having crappy customer support. Oh yeah, the system is unstable as Hell because, after running their "torture test" on the original setup -- with all the crap running., it crashed at the 24 hour mark. system restore.
Then, at the end of the article, the editor steps in with the reason for all this:
For those of you that missed it, the Review in question evaluates a system a couple notches up in the performance category (but, one assumes, since Gateway's marketing dept. played ball, the journalistic budget didn't factor in). But even hardware differences aside, methodologically the two cases aren't comparable. As far as bloatware goes, the Gateway shipped not only with McAfee's antivirus (which the Dell review repeatedly cites as a nuisance and a cause of instability), but also Norton and BigFix. The drivers were not 3 months out of date like at Dell, but 8 months (to which the reviewer says: "Big deal? Not really" and proudly states he installed the latest driver immediately -- instead of, like the Dell review, going to try out games he knew wouldn't work). The Gateway had tons of toolbars and installed bloat. What did the reviewer do?:
Yeah. Sounds a lot like modern consumer-america.
Marketing Flak: Hey, I know about all these cool services that we can add to our default setup!
Tech: What do you mean 'cool'?
MF: I mean, we can install them, and then when people browse, we get money. It's like free cash!
Vice-President: Free cash? It'll make my budget easier?
T: Oh you mean spyware. You want to install spyware and crapware on the computers before they go out the door?
MF: It's not spyware, like that stuff from what, Gator? It's a consumer-prefence program and digital wallet from Claria. It makes sure that users only see ads directed to their particular tastes.
T: Yeah, like 8 bajillion ads.
VP: Free money? Sounds great! Tech, make it so!
T: But...
VP: I can replace you, you know.
T: Yes sir.
_______________________
Note to Michael Dell: congratulations, dumbass. You just found out nothing is FREE. Add crapware on your computers and (surprise) you're going to find out that the people who have problems with this crapware start telling others that Dells are hard to deal with. Hope that $0.0001 clickthrough revenue is enough to mitigate the cost of your lost sales.
-Styopa
I bet at least one of the "game doesn't work" incidents was related to the adware/spyware preinstalled on the PC clashing with spyware design to copy protect the games being installed.
This kind of conflicts were hinted at when XCP's rootkit fiasco became popular, and we all know that modern games aren't that much better (some of them at least) in that respect, since they come with various "copy protection" mechanisms licensed from 3rd party providers, hooking to core OS functions.
It's only gonna get worse as more and more apps appear to have those.
Parent shows the clear bias and the lack of intently of the reviewer.
I don't own a Dell, but have used them at college and currently use one at work.
The harsh comments have little to do with Dell's computer and more to do with the reviewer being upset a having to pay for a computer.
The reviewer was nitpicking. Anyone can find negative things to say about something/someone if one feels resentful.
I think you mean $sys$whatever
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
A Dell XPS M140 and as soon as I get it I'm going to blow away the installed image and then re-install Win XP Pro to my liking.
Matter of fact, I've never bought a PC and used it right out of the box. Instead I've always tailored it to my needs, not that which the OEM feels it should be. But then I'm an I.T. guy and whatever Dell/Gateway/Et al sell is tailored to the neophyte.
What's truly ironic is not knowing the meaning of the word ironic
Dell sells both business and consumer models. In the desktop line the Optiplexes are the business versions and Dimensions are the consumer. They share almost all the internal parts but have different skins.
The big difference is in the software. The consumer versions come preloaded with a bunch of crappy demos and spyware-lite. The business versions have no extra pre-loaded software--just what is ordered. In addition, the business versions usually come with Gold service--a 800 number answered in the US by an English-speaking rep. Typically, the calls are answered in less than 5 minutes.
If you're looking at Dells, check out the small business store for the bloat-ware free versions.
Typically, the business versions are $50 to $100 more (depending on the system) than the consumer.
Desktop
Dimension=consumer
Optiplex=business
Lapto
Inspiron=consumer
Latitude
I also think the review was a bit harsh. They already didn't like Dell for the lack of complete choice in parts and the "big evil brand". They started out by complaining about paying taxes...if they buy their systems from any vendor in Texas they should be paying taxes...hardly Dell's fault.
They haven't gotten perfect reviews, but most of the other sources for reviews of the XPS that I've read admit that it's a serious system and that they were impressed how far Dell's come. For example, MaxPC gave the current XPS 600 a 9/10.
l
http://www.maximumpc.com/2005/09/dell_xps_600.htm
Sounds to me like [Hard]|OCP saw the name Dell and already had its mind made up.
And why are they reviewing a XPS 400 when the XPS 600 is on the market right now? Why are they reviewing hardware that is behind on what's currently available?
Let me put it this way -- they're reviewing a 400 in December... online... when others reviewed a 600 and had sent it to print in time to be physically published in *November*?
How professional and timely of them...
I resent the above implication that these other comparisons relate "buying wine in a box". I love wine in a box!
Hey, if you want a serious gaming machine--either build your own or go to a smaller company like Alienware that will build it right for you. Going to Dell, Gateway, Hewlett Packard, et. al. for a gaming PC just shows that you're not a serious gamer to begin with.
-Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Dell is Legendary in the PC/Low-end server industry for their almost complete lack of a product development staff. Indeed, they even pride themselves on not doing much actual design work themselves, and even boast about it in articles and press releases.
Dell is a company of Marketing folks that somehow managed to hire some of the finest Manufacturing Engineeers and procurement managers on Earth. However, since they seem to make a $hit-load of dough doing exactly what they have been doing, the prospect of actually doing system development and testing, which would have caught most of those bugs in about five minutes, is completely anathema to their corporate culture.
At Dell, OEM's do virtually all the product development. I suspect that with this system, they relied on the Motherboard OEM to certify that the hardware worked together, but they neglected to tell their (tiny) software staff to run additional testing on this software image. Dell likely just loaded the standard "Home" image on this system, which is likely identical to every other consumer desktop that Dell ships out the door.
Bloatware is a regrettable reality for many Consumer PC's. However, to charge extra for a system market towards gamers and then not perform even the most perfunctory testing is pretty damn stupid.
SirWired
These days, with the vast majority of calls being outsourced to India, this is a very common complaint. I had the same problem the other day trying to call Amazon.com's customer service. Tel me, what kind of person works customer service for an American mail-order company and doesn't understand the word "shipping"?!?! -Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
"You don't want Autorun enabled. If the Sony incident taught you nothing else, it should have taught you "AUTORUN==BAD"."
Being able to run programs called "setup.exe" can also lead to malware infestations. Did Dell also do the users another favour by removing the ability to install new software?
first thing to do with a Dell or any brand name PC is FORMAT. for those who forgot already, FORMAT. 90% of vendor related issues are fixed by FORMAT. FORMAT will fix it. Do not use the mountains of crap that gets preinstalled, install it yourself. i have been building pc's and deploying images for various companies on various platforms for 10 years and if i heard of somebody using the stock image that comes on those machines I would openly laugh at them. The stock image is for non-techinical computers users who would never be able to install it themselves (not that hitting enter 20 times and F8 once for the license is that hard). FORMATTTTTTTT
I own an XPS and I've never had any problems (I've never played Sims 2 though). The problems the author was having may have been introduced in this years model, as my XPS is last years. Of course I also cleaned up all the extra crap Dell put on it the moment the computer was in my hands...
I don't consider myself to be a serious PC gamer (I'm more into console games), but I do play a few of the more popular titles like Doom 3, Half Life 2, and Civ 4. I'll admit that the only reason I even got an XPS was because my company offered huge discounts for going through Dell, but in the end it's really not a bad computer. I'm able to run everything at maximum resolution with all the special effects, so I'm happy (for now). Still, if I was a 'serious' PC gamer I'd probably build my own rig. The XPS is definetly for those of us who don't have the time or want to put the effort into building our own PC's.
First, a disclosure: I am an IBM employee, and get a small discount on IBM (Lenovo) systems.
While I do get a small discount on my PC's, I would buy an IBM box even without it. The reason for this is that I get a guarantee that the hardware in the system will work together. While every OEM provides this (although Dell only provides the guarantee for 90 days), IBM's is actually worth something.
If I experience a HW failure with my IBM system, I give them my model number, serial number, and then simply tell them which part I think is broken, reading off the Part Number if I have it handy. Not once have I been forced to torture myself with diagnostics, or told to simply re-build the system image before doing anything else. I receive the part the next day with no hassles. And oh yes, when I do call, my call goes to somebody that is speaking in an accent I can understand. Dell only provides that service to Business customers, and only then after there were a large number of complaints.
IBM also makes the system maintenance manuals and full part number lists available on-line to the public. (This is also true for the laptops, which can be very handy once the warranty runs out.)
Even though I have been using Intel-based PC's now for... damn... am I that old?... for 17 years (which doesn't count my years with TI99/4A's and Trash-80's) and worked PC/Network support for four of those years, I still buy pre-built systems instead of rolling my own. Why? Because I have known too many people to simply end up in blame-game hell when their new system doesn't work properly, or isn't stable. Even when running into obviously defective parts, obtaining an RMA seems to be a difficult thing to do in many instances. If you shop carefully, you can get the same hardware from an OEM for the same price as rolling your own, which should properly insulate you from outright hardware failures.
Of course, under some circumstances, if you just need a "disposable" system, you can even get a complete CPU + printer + KVM for $300. That is hard to beat on your own.
SirWired
I don't know what the problem is.
My new dell laptop had like 15 programs in the taskbar on startup. Including McAfee which "really" wanted me to set it up [you can't just close the program]. I'd have a program popping up to tell me every 3 seconds.
I first grabbed cpuid to make sure the system was what I ordered. Then I grabbed my windows cd and reinstalled. I hate windows but I really hate windows with two dozen startup programs to make my "experience better".
All the players do this though, not just dell. It just seems Dell is the champ.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
That's one of the most cynical comments I've read in a while, and if I had points, I would have modded it down Flamebait. As I was reading the article I was thinking to myself that someone should create a company that sells well-configured, generally bugfree computers to the general public at Dell costs. I'm convinced it could work and to staggering success if done right; the problem is that nobody has of yet done so, at least any company I know.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
I made the mistake on my laptop of listening to drivel like this, that the Windows' Wireless configuration stuff was so great. I tried to use it on a daily basis. Then I got sick and tired of loosing my wireless connection three or four times a day, and went back to the wireless config program that came with my laptop. I've had a rock-solid connection ever since.
There's nothing like constantly loosing your connection in the middle of important work. Thanks, Microsoft!
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Senator Carl Schurz (1872)
My Mac still pwns Dell
I actually find it hard to just buy a PC, and currently with my busy schedule, I do not have the time to build one. I tried a high end HP, and we had problems from beginning, a DELL had a power supply that went bad, MPC micron is my next choice. I hear the same from others. It's just hard to get a decent PC. Local mom and pop shops are basically taking the easy way out, selling pre-made bare bone systems. If there was a time for Apple to take over, it's now.
Intelligent Design
One thing I immediately noticed was the graphics card will not block adjacent slots. With a slight mod (some shroud) you can probably piggyback the main CPU's fan stream and not need a fan on the graphics card.
He gives the system negative marks for pre-installed utilities, not the actual hardware or construction. That's inane. If I buy a pre-built system from a Dell, IBM, etc., I go into the deal with the full realization that I'm probably going to want to reinstall the OS immediately after receiving the machine. Or, if not quite that drastic, at least spend a couple hours uninstalling all the crap they load on there. I wonder- would the review have been positive if the machine had been ordered with no pre-installed OS (assuming that's possible)?
I purchased a new Dell XPS 400 last week. First thing I noticed my 80 gig drive only showed 55 gigs. I tried to go into "Disk Management" and I did not have rights to do this. Is this my computer or Dell's? I then decided to re-install the software. I paid extra ($10) for a MCE install CD. It now runs like a champ. No stability issues and it is smooth. I was able to get a 20 inch widescreen, dual-core and a gig of ram for about the same price as they tested. I have owned it for a little over 2 weeks and NO issues. I am not a hardcore gamer (at least on PC) but it is a great machine. It is quiet and looks good under my desk. I captured some videos and re-encoded them and use it for photo editing/web design. No regrets on the purchase.
Half of writing history is hiding the truth.
Sure building is great, but it's often hit or miss with performance. Some hardware just performs better when paired some other components. Why not leave the decisions to the experts?
I am on my third Alienware now and have no regrets. Sure it can be a bit more expensive, but they deliver a tweaked system instead of a bloated one, with a performance guarantee.
It may also be worth noting that there's more choice than just Gateway/Dell or assemble every component yourself. There's plenty of stores that will be happy to assemble and test a barebones hardware build for you, with or without an OS installed on the final result they sell you. You can mix the time-saving of having someone else strap the hardware together and locate hardware compatibility issues ("Why won't it POST with all four RAM slots filled?!") with the benefit of personal control over the software setup.
Last time I "built" a PC, I had envisioncs.net assemble and test-boot the annoying parts (motherboard, CPU, ram, power supply, case) and then added my own drives, video cards, and external components to the pre-assembled base.
First off, I was shopping online for a laptop and got myself a Dell. Several reasons for this(for those of you who can't comprehend why anyone would buy a Dell for gaming):
1) Price: I got a $2000 laptop for $1300. Yay for readily available employee coupons.
2) Well....ok, just price.
But when shopping, I found the Dell XPS was NOT a gaming laptop as it may claim to be. To start off, there isn't even an option to get a videocard that isn't the integrated piece of crap offered by every other manufacturer. Sure, it may have more processing power, but not gaming power. For me, the Inspiron with the $750 coupon was the way to go. I'd link to it, but it has already expired.
It's like getting financial advice from Martha Stewart or home decorating advice from Ray Charles. It's like getting advice about avoiding sexually trasmitted diseases from Majic Johnson and advice about talking out your problems from Mike Tyson. "Learning to share" lessons provided by George Bush or how to run a successful, stable government by Fidel Castro.
It's like getting advice on how to date someone in your age group by Katie Holmes or getting advice on developing a quality singing voice by Ashley Simpson. Building a hotrod is best advised by the creators of the Sparrow. It's like being advised on making a stable kernel by Bill Gates or building a gaming system by Dell. *ZING!*
-- Game Developers: Stop porting badly-textured games from crappy console systems!
would buy a Dell and think of it as "high-quality". They may have "bought American" but Dell buys Malaysian and Taiwanese. Once you build a PC on your own, it's really easy to do again, and I don't ever see myself going back to pre-builts. Have a knowledgable friend (i.e. has built several PCs with no problems) help you the first time, then research and do your own upgrades. Afterward, even years later, you'll know how to quickly find high-quality information resouces (and avoid luser resources) to bring you up to date on the latest technology (since you already should understand the basics you won't be mislead by market-speak and fooled by large companies wiht too-good-to-be-true deals). For me, it's as simple as "oh, I need a new hard drive... hmm, look for Western Digital on Newegg and Tom's Hardware... here's a really good one for a nice price... wow, those transfer speeds are really up there nowadays, look at that SATA II 3meg."
The 'Net is a waste of time, and that's exactly what's right about it. - William Gibson
Before people tear down Dell any more, I would like to share a positive experience.
I realize that buying a Dell may not be considered "geek", but I really do enjoy the deal I got.
Basic specs:
P4 670 (3.8 Ghz)
1GB 667Mhz RAM
XP Pro (for all them games)
ATI X850 XT PE (this is the Dell version, but I don't mind)
80GB WD 10k RPM HDD (times 2 in raid 0)
CD Burner, DVD double layer burner (dual drive option)
3 years "plus" support (accidental coverage)
19" Analog monitor, doesn't look to bad really
free crappy color printer, but hey - I needed one for the house
I got this system for $2700 on one of Dell's super deals. The system got here in 3 days, the printer about 7.
I did a real simple software clean up when I got it, removing AOL - etc. Took about 15 minutes.
It's run great. I do have the ocasional lock up in a couple games, but I've traced that back to the game itself. I had a question regarding the DVD dual layer drive and called Dell - I waited about 2 minutes before I had my answer.
I realize there ARE better machines, but for me I was happy with what I got.
Why I got it:
1) I have 3 small kids - accidental coverage - you do the math.
2) I fix computers all day long. I don't wanna come home and fix another one - I wanna game. For 3 years if this thing breaks, my kids spill juice inside, or I drop it down the stairs at a LAN party, some other unlucky bloke has to come out and fix it.
3) I'm pretty sure Dell isn't going anywhere for at least the next 3 years.
For Windows machines, pre-SP2, the wireless driver API sucked. Utterly. Windows had no idea what the fuck wireless cards were or why it should care that a card was wireless, for the most part. It just treated it as an ordinary NIC with weird properties, which meant that the companies all got to giggle and add proprietary hooks for shit like signal strength and anything besides basic ad-hoc/infrastructure modes...which is where we get the incredibly bloated drivers from. Similarly, all-in-one printers do the same thing, because they want to have the properties of a scanner, printer, and god knows what else, so they basically load one driver and then have some shitty stub of a driver that pipes everything to the other one in proprietary hooks (my mother received a Lexmark all in one for free, and you can install a plain scanner driver fine, but if you want to use the printer, you have to install their shitty bloated app which feeds it into the scanner driver...not joking.)
The problem, of course, is that you can't install the drivers in question without the shitty application bloat, because the drivers often install the bloated apps along with them, or don't function properly without them (I turn to my above printer example).
Wireless networking drivers are a mess. Linux and Windows are both scrambling to fix it, and Linux has a decent attempt at a standard 802.11 stack, though it still has bugs [last I checked, no Master mode support, and it breaks most old-school wireless drivers if you enable it]. Windows is probably trying, but in attempting to avoid driver breakage, they're stuck with those old drivers forever.
Oops.
It's only an insult if it's not true.
None of the Sims games will install on my Latitude D610, even after a rebuild. Works fine on another PC.
There's no such thing as bourbon made in California. Bourbon is made in Kentucky.
Their XPS140 Laptop, however, is huge joke. Last I checked, it still doesn't even have a dedicated graphics processor. Now, it's only got a 14" widescreen at 1280x1020 res (or thereabouts) max, so that doesn't take too much power to generate desent graphics... but COME ON!!!. I don't care what the product is, if it's sharing memory for the onboard Intell-built integrated processor, it IS NOT a gaming machine. At least throw in something from the low end Radeons. They run low power and cool. At least include some dedicated GPU RAM. This is about as much a "gaming laptop" as all your wonderful analogies say it isn't.
And, may I submit, "Swing dancing to Kenny G?"
This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
My XPS 400 came with a bare XP cd, a drivers cd, a software cd! I don't know what you're talking about, my old inspiron 8200 came exactly the same way. They were both loaded with crap, but any "power" user would install a fresh OS anyway.
We are causing this, because we put up with it. Vote with your dollars. Hit them in the only place they care about. Yeah Joe six pack is ignorant. Educate him, tell everyone you know. Better yet, get him to play frozen-bubble. End of problem. Thank you very much......
Dump that Microsoft Optical Mouse immediately. Or at least never use it on top of any printed documents. Coupled with their own closed-source driver, its laser functions as a scanner sucking up all the data on your table. If you run it on top of a papers, etc. eventually, it will scan the entire thing, OCR-it, and send the contents to Redmond.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
...(unlike PDFCreator, which uses Ghostscript!)...
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
No shit? Really? Preinstalled programs causing problems?
ALERT THE INTERNETS!
Standard operating procedure in any shop that's worth a damn is to WIPE THE DRIVE of any mass-manufactured system you buy and put a fresh install of whatever on it.
Seriously...you want to write a review about something, yet you fail to do a process which most of us will do without thinking about it.
Your an idiot.
Much like the person who reviewed this dell.
Sorry, but I've seen too many XPS machine work without a problem, out of the box.
Yeah, you can build better; but for 600 bucks, including 17" LCD monitor?
I have my doubts.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I consider myself to be fairly competent when it comes to computers. I have a bachelor in computer science and I work all day at a job where I program web applications. I even run my own little review website on the side.
I tried building my own machine a couple years back, but it was a complete disaster. I have had nothing but hardware conflicts from day one. I used name brand equipment, but I did not, and still do not, have the time to research each product to see if it is compatible with every other product. I choose what, at the time, was considered top of the line, AMD Athlon 1400+ processor, ASUS motherboard, Radeon 9800 pro graphics card and a sound blaster sound card. There is just something there that does not work well. I get a blue screen of death at least once a week; even when the computer is idle it will sometimes lock up. I have had to stop playing games on it completely because it crashes more when I do. I FDISK the hard drive at least once every 6 months so that I make sure I don't have any stuff on it that may be causing problems. I run Norton Antivirus and ZoneAlarm Pro so that I can keep viruses and unwanted people off my system.
So after all that trouble you cannot blame me for not wanting to do it again. I just want something that works the first time. No I am not going to switch to a Mac. I have crashed just as many Macs as I have PCs.
I like many others would like to purchase a system which is already configured to work correctly. So if Dell is so bad, who would you recommend? I was planning on purchasing a XPS 600 with Dual NVIDIA 7800 GTX cards, Dual core Pentium chip, 20" LCD monitor and such. That was all going to cost less then $3500. Everywhere else I look, a setup like that is closer to $4000 or more. Just so you know I have checked Gateway, Velocity Micro, Alienware, and Overdrive PC.
I would like to get the low prices that Dell offers but still get a good system. I know Dell does not sell AMD but I would prefer an AMD processor because it seems like they are doing better then Intel.
Does anyone have a suggestion for a company that can provide all this and next day on site service for the price that Dell offers? Maybe that is too much to ask.
JusTech'n - Where Technology comes home
As somebody who uses Dell computers at work, I have to say that Dell doesn't deserve the reputation of being pieces of shit. This is evident upon opening the case. The components are all clean and laid out nicely; the connectors are neatly folded and not at all tangled. The cases don't require any screwdrivers to open or to make modifications; very nice when swapping out PCI boards and such. Every component is accessible from the open case; not like some cases where it is just completely impossible to access, say, the CPU, without removing PCI cards, hard drives, etc.
As for the software, who cares about that? You are just going to reimage the drive anyways.
Wine in a box is actually damn good. And it stores MUCH better than the bottled stuff. Sometimes progress is good, kids ;)
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
I'm still running AthlonXP2000+ with 512MB. It was uber when I built it... 4 years ago. Now, a friend just got his new PC-- Athlon64 3200+, 2GB but wont let me touch it because "he's sure the Best Buy guys knows what they're doing."
I can run EQ, burn a DVD, and watch a movie with no hiccups while he's still trying to find out why his computer lags SO bad when playing WoW. Just WoW. I went to look over his shoulder and saw (I kid you not) 14 icons in his system tray. I weep for him.
It's all about optimizing. Themes? Dead. Auto update? gone. Fading menus? WTF? I would LOVE to find manufacturer that sells systems that are pre-tweaked like this. Someone I can refer users to and know I wont have to preface my suggestion with "... and let me know when you get it so I can come over and tweak it."
Your first point: Yes, Gateway had an agreement with Hardocp.com, Dell did not. We felt that it was worth it to take a look at the Dell before the holiday season even if we didn't, simply because of the size and the holiday season.
But this didn't have an impact on the review. In fact, we could have very well chosen not to review Dell's products because we simply didn't have an agreement. But Dell's too big to ignore for Santa Season.
As a front-line writer, it really didn't matter to me whether we got Dell's promise to RMA the system or not. Kyle tells Chris to do the article. Chris tells me to write the article. I don't get a whole lot of choice in what to review. I do get a lot of choice in -how- to review.
If Dell had an RMA agreement, this review would have been exactly the same. I mentioned it because I believe sunlight is the best disinfectant. We have given bad scores to companies that had RMA agreements with us.
Second Point: Yes, the Gateway had a number of similar problems, but the first difference was that of degree: The Dell had far more bloatware on the system, and the second difference was that of kind: The Gateway's bloatware did not interfere with system operation. There was a performance hit, sure. But we didn't have stability problems with the Gateway.
"Pre-installed software" has two big benifits - the kickbacks keep the price low, and they actually are useful for a novice user who doesn't know how to install software. We have to balance that out. Don't get me wrong - we prefer clean systems. But there's bloatware and then there's BLOATWARE.
Journalistic integrity means alot to me, personally - and I can understand this criticism. And you know what, I'm glad you bring it up. Questioning is the best way to get at something and sunlight's the best disinfectant. HardOCP.com has forums set up so that peole can ask questions and we'll do our best to answer them.
Hope to see you there.
-- Brian Boyko
-- The Guy Whut Rote That Shtuff.
Ya, most idiots lose them. So what? AOL sends bazillions of CDs out per year, and most of them get trashed. CDs cost nothing.
For the non-idiots, providing the CDs would be an enormous help--and only fair, seeing as how it's software they've legally licensed!
(disclaimer: I don't buy Dell anymore).
...then it's not a gaming PC.
Sorry, but it's a cold, hard, well proven fact that an AMD CPU will trounce an Intel equivalent in gaming performance.
Secondly, the XPS cases are ugly, plastic monstrosities that are a safety hazard, especially with a heat generator like an Intel inside. And please, a 375W PSU? Are you nuts? It's like they're ASKING the computer to die.
Every time I see the XPS marketed as the "ULTIMATE GAMING EXPERIENCE" I feel like firing up Firefox, typing in a quick google for "AMD vs Intel gaming" and mailing a few links to Dell.
That or suing them for false advertising.
Goten Xiao
My aunt bought a new Gateway laptop - the sales demo. Tech tells me, "just wipe and re-install the OS - that's what we do with sales demos anyway". Okay.
Set up DBAN, and while it's chewing away, I go looking for the install disks. And find nothing but a couple of CD-R's.
Fortunately, the CompUSA store manager agreed it was his employee's fault for giving me bad advice, and they ate the $30 fee that Gateway charges for replacement system disks.
PITA.
Why can't I mod "-1 Idiot"?
While it is desirable to have autorun disabled, its even more desirable to have it disabled by disabling it yourself, rather than as a side effect of other software crunching around on your machine.
You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan
(The Beatles)
I have to think that both Microsoft and Sony are eyeing the subscriber revenue of the MMOG space. What I suspect is that Microsoft would very much like Blizzard to continue their console work on Ghost and their PC work on WoW and bring a Diablo or Starcraft MMOG to market on the next generation Xbox. Sony could enter the market from many directions, but I am skeptical that the Everquest line would be it.
Parent is right about the PC being on the leading edge of performance. The PC is still driving the market and it is a matter of cost and economy of scale. Console makers already take a significant loss on hardware that they expect to recoup on game sales, so it is bad business for them to come to the market with leading edge components that cost 80% more. In the PC market, there is a niche for people that will pay a huge premium for their 1600x1200 60FPS All-Widgets-On Fear experience, but the console market is still pretty much a single-unit-for-all-consumers one. You cannot market a single unit priced for the that niche.
What that means is that the MMOG people would have to be very incentivized to move to a console platform and work out input and performance issues. They would be agreeing to build a game that will not look as good as what they could do on a PC. But in a market that is often driven by glitz, it is not an easy sell to say, "We want you to build this game on the console even though it will not look as good as the competing titles in the PC market." Then again, for a company with MMOG and console experience like Blizzard, that may be more of an advantage than a disadvantage. It is probably something they are positioning themselves for, because I think we can safely say that if they bring their MMOG and console experience onto the field, a million customer MMOG touchdown is likely. Not just yet, but likely in a few years.
End of ramble.
I notice they compain about how much stuff is running in this system tray. To me, this isn't a legitimate complaint, unless its useless software. I build my own machines but I like to run a lot of usability stuff when I'm not gaming (i'm usually not) and this slightly hinders the performance of the machine when I'm playing games. So I create two user profiles. Now, for some reason a lot of processes just don't like being moved from the LOCAL_MACHINE to CURRENT_USER , and whats more is there is a delay on loading software that is in the CURRENT_USER tre. Also, if you have multiple other profiles, it may be to your disadvantage to have to put it in every one of the CURRENT_USER trees. My solution to this is a quick'n'dirty batch script, the main problem with this being that windows has no prepackaged shell command to sleep. You can get the Windows 2003 Server Resource Toolkit (free) for a sleep command and a bunch of other nifty things that help out the pathetic windows shell, but sleep is all you need for this. sleep N, taskkill /img process_name.exe,...,cls.
"The money Dell gets back from the software vendor helps offset the cost of PCs, which in turn leads to lower prices for you. "
I don't believe this for a second. It just allows Dell to make more money at the expense of their users and the stability and speed of their systems. At least now for an extra $10 you can buy a XP CD with you Dell that you can use to reformat and reinstall XP without any of the crap it comes with. Thats the way around this mess.
Houston Chronical computer reviewer comments on our article.
When I review a PC, as part of the process I disable as many background programs as I can, to get a feel for the capabilities of the "pure" system. Maybe I shouldn't do that anymore . . .
I should probably be taking to task in my column manufacturers that overloard new systems with junkware.
Ah, my first resolution for the new year!
[H] Consumer Senior Editor HardOCP.com
A 375 watt power supply in a gaming PC? Puh-lease. it's also a proprietary power supply so you can't upgrade it.
Is it just me, or don't most gamers have the knowledge to build their own system with parts from newegg, or get a real gamers system from Alienware? Dell is a joke, and I wouldn't expect their gaming PCs to be any better then their business PCs. Their first mistake is not using AMD64, their second mistake is "Dude, it's a Dell"
Dell dont make their own components. Typical of US Multinationals whose CEO's have other people to answer their e-mails.
Dell may have been onto something once, but I think they are now more concern about the stock price than their products.
More gloss than substance.
They are concerned enough to squeeze suppliers down to the last penny, thinking that they can sell their systems cheaper.
OK the suppliers will send them well tested components to be installed into test units in Dell's labs.
But do you think the bits that go into the actual units being sold is of the same quality ? How can the suppliers make any money if they do just as rigorous testing for those parts?
I have bought 4 Dell notebooks, from the days of Windows ME to these Windows XP days. And I have also bought other brand's notebooks.
The best I have used are by this Taiwanese brand called "Twinhead" in Asia. They also have different brands in the US.
I thought that the "crash" was from software only.
I finally realised this is not so.
The Twinhead notebooks (and Acer) I have bought have hardly ever crashed, and I have never seen the dreaded "blue screen" on the others.
The Dells, I have NEVER had one that dont crash.
The latest one in my family I bought for myson specially assembled for a college my son's attending, with 256 MB Rams dedicated video,1920 X 1200 resolution 15.4" screens, no less. He's doing a lot of graphics and video editing work.
Report from my son's that his classmates are all bitching 'cos this "special" Dell machines are so 'freezing-up" & crash-prone that they are all using portable hard disks & frash drives to back their ongoing work 'cos their Dells are so unreliable.
He had also had the system crash as he was burning a CD to save a completed work, and had to go and explain why he didnt complete his work to the powers that be.
I knew this before and had sworn that I'd never buy another Dell again after my 3 previous experiences, but I couldnt find anyone else' brand to come up close with Dell's proposal for the college (The closest was Acer).
(By the way one of my son's buddies did opt for the Acer rather than the Dell, and it works fine.)
My conclusion now: NEVER BUY ANOTHER DELL.
Ideally, for notebooks, buy it from an outfit/brand that makes their own components (.ie., now, Taiwanese, Korean, or Japanese) even if the brand is not well known.
Or, if you know how, assemble your own system from parts by reputable manufacturers (as opposed to assemblers loke Dell).