Slashdot Mirror
How to Do What You Love
fnord_ix writes "Paul Graham has another interesting essay talking about How to Do What You Love. He talks about the lies that adults tell kids about what work is, and how work is equal to pain." From the article: "I'm not saying we should let little kids do whatever they want. They may have to be made to work on certain things. But if we make kids work on dull stuff, it might be wise to tell them that tediousness is not the defining quality of work, and indeed that the reason they have to work on dull stuff now is so they can work on more interesting stuff later. "
Sometimes you don't ever get to do what you love, but you still have to make a living. I think you're fortunate if you find something you love to do, but I don't think it's right to tell kids that it's what should happen either. That would just be a big disappointment if it didn't turn out that way.
Somewhere along the way I chose things electronic (and computational) and here I am...
What does the education system expose your kids to today?
Been there, done that, paid for the T-shirt
and didn't get it
Well, here in Portugal the education is so bad that every kid finds school boring.
How are people who've had to do boring work all of their life (e.g. kids) are expected to understand that they're just doing it so they can do interesting stuff later?
Personally, I've only understood that in colege (with few exceptions).
I used to work on dull stuff.
Then I worked on interesting stuff.
They they took the interesting stuff and made it dull stuff in a foreign land.
Now I work on dull stuff.
As you work, remember who's creating the value, and who's getting paid for it without creating value.
...my logic course teacher told us: "Yes I know it's boring as hell and you feel like it is of no use for you now, but you'll need it later on".
I think if you love your job %25 of the time you are doing OK. Politics and tedious work 75% of the time is worth the programming 25% of the time. I just think about the money when I am getting yelled at for not being able to read a manager's mind.
Necrophiliac.
Britney Spears?
No, but really.. it's amazing how college aged kids today lack basic skills. Aside from the previous Slashdot story about illiteracy, I saw a recent short on my local news (Los Angeles) where they surveyed a bunch of college students about basic math skills. Several people couldn't figure out a 15% tip on $50. When asked about credit card offers, others couldn't decide which was a better interest rate: 3% or 25%. Their responses were something along the line of: "Oh, my credit card is linked to my parents', so they get the bill for it." Kudos to our education system!
when i grow up i want to work in a cubical.
also, my other car is a cubical.
.cig
If you hate your job then consider the alternative - living in a war-torn nation where murderous gangs roam the streets and kill folks at random, and you looking for food because of drought.
That is only one alternative of many. If the people in my family had bought into your reasoning, I'd be posting this from a cave somewhere.
It's easy to preach about how to do what you love when you're independently wealthy.
Certainly Graham's own actions are a large part of the reason why he's independently wealthy, but if he or anyone else thinks that luck was not an incredibly huge portion of it, they're wrong. And yet he (and other people like him) constantly preach on "here's how to succeed", as if, following their own advice, they themselves would actually succeed in any meaningful number of independent test runs of reality.
I don't mean to denigrate Graham, what he accomplished, or the fact that his own talents and efforts helped tremendously in those accomplishments. But these sorts of articles always strike me as unwarranted general conclusions from absurdly small sample sizes.
i shudder how people assume that kids are treated right or better when they are bent to other people's likenings under the force of profit and the need to work.
Look around you, fool. That's how everything you see was built.
under the force of profit and the need to work.
.... working for the sake of someone else?
As opposed to
What a load of crud. Somebody send him to Demotivators, quickly.
http://www.despair.com/potential.html
BWAHAHAHAHA someone modded this informative! wtg slashdot mods! Not that i'd really mind more your-mom jokes on /.
to watch Porn?
Join the anonymous, help develop the network: http://www.i2p2.de
Here's a related article, The Puritan Work Ethic at Anxiety Culture.
Wow dude, your dog is his biatch.
The test of whether people love what they do is whether they'd do it even if they weren't paid for it
Sorry, that's an incorrect statement, and I wish it would die. It's simplistic and not based in reality and just gives lazy people and excuse to dodge doing important work. I'm sick of hearing it.
Look at the flip side, if you find something you love doing, will you still love it if you get paid to do it?
More specifically, would you still love it if you had deadlines to deal with?
People who love their jobs either thrive on the pressure, or have 'easy' jobs that they don't have to take home with them. For example, my mom loves her job because it's low stress, and when she goes home, she doesn't have to worry about work at all. I love my job because I'm an integral part of my company. We both have hobbies we do outside of work that neither of us could ever make a living doing (or would want to!). Sure, in bizzarro world, someone would pay me to sit on my ass and watch weird movies all day, but I would quickly hate it because the other facets of my personality would get ignored. Likewise, if I did my day job for free, I would not get anything done because the pressure would be gone.
Help me take back Slashdot. When did 'News for Nerds' become 'FUD and Conspiracy Theories for Extremist Nutjobs'?
I thought this was a tutorial on masterbation!
That said, I think s/he might have focused more on finding ways to experience wonder from moment-to-moment. This isn't easy when you're slinging hash, or heading toward the 11th straight hour of wrapping up a code project for a manager named Godzilla.
Life really is moment-to-moment, and very, very non-linear. There are ways - without becoming a mindless new age fanatic - to deal with the everyday.
Many years ago I read a book on Aesthetics called "Art in the Everyday"; it had a big impact. (I think it's out of print, and most people would probably find it pedantic).
Wittgenstein had a great way of dealing with this; he said (to paraphrase) "don't wonder about why you are, or what you are, or how you came to be, etc. - simply wonder THAT you are.
Again, this is not about contemplating one's navel, but rather using good, time-worn techniques (meditation, etc.) to get beyond all the stuff that weighs us down, and use that weight as a lever to achieve some internal peace.
It's tough drilling down to the moment in difficult times, but there's peace there, no matter what. I wish we could teach our kids more about how to do that.
Lastly, none of this means quiting the world, and withdrawing. On the contrary, it's about finding ways to pay more attention to the world on a moment-by-moment basis. that's deosn't preclude anyone from being/doing in this world in any number of ways - i.e. agressive entrepreneur, waiter, writer, coder, nanny, stay-at-home-mom, etc.
As a kid I was taught that I had to learn Math. An no one explained to me WHY I had to learn math. To me it was more fun to play with my Commodore 64 and the Philips EE2003- electronics kits. I was very curious as a kid, and every time I asked those who tried to teach me math what X and Y meant they never explained it to me but just told me to concentrate on the math formula itself and just solve it the way it has been told and explained. They told me I did not need to know what X and Y stands for. This is just ONE event of my childhood and why the fun of math became a chore to me instead of the fun it really could be.
... 8-bit assembly back then. Food for thoughts.
Back then, teachers where not advanced enough with computers to know that the stuff I coded in assembly actually where pretty advanced math. And since I was only 11 years old I had no clue it was advanced, to me it was just pure fun and I could not get enough of it. Too much later in life I discovered the connection between the school math and the computer programming that occupied my childhood.
I think teachers should be more creative in showing kids how they could use the things they learn in real life. Because of these experiences in my childhood - I got very bad math grades and did terribly in school. Later in life - I got a job as a service technican, but still I had many holes and lack of real knowledge on how things worked because of my lack of schooling.
Much later in life I rediscovered math and how fun it could be - because it rewared my personal projects with results that I really needed, that made math a lot of fun. Now I just really wish I knew the connection as a kid, maybe I was not smart enough to see the connection - but its kind of funny that I actually performed very advanced math formulas and calculations in an even more difficult environment
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
"It is not doing the thing we like to do, but liking the thing we have to do, that makes life blessed."
Dag B
Lead?
Indeed it has.
What does the education system expose your kids to today?
STDs mostly. I'm not kidding, 25% of Americans age 15-39 have genital herpes. An uncurable, lifelong disease. And they can't add.
I am seriously fretting for my homeland's future at this point, but what can be done?
Monstar L
I think they guy got it right about the way society looks at work. As I grew up, it was always assumed that work wasn't actually ever "fun," or else it wouldn't be called work. The fun you got was in the security you could go to the fridge and grab a sandwitch.
Well that isn't true right now. Labor can be done in one part of the world and instantly realized in another part. I hate to sound marxist, but the internet and the proletariat haven't even started to change the world.
-dave
6th Street Radio @ddombrowsky
...wanking off from 9 to 5. With two 10 minute breaks of course. Plus paid overtime.
On the other hand, the people who tend to become independently wealthy through their work are those who, well, love to work. Putting in 80+ hours a week, loving your work, being engrossed by it, etc. can do wonders for your career prospects.
Still, I like my work. I don't love it - but it's fun and intellectually stimulating a reasonable share of the time, reasonably free, and not McKinsey-demanding in terms of time. All in all, I don't regret my studies, even though they were boring at times.
Don't really have much to say but the above. Quite honestly, life is long and tedious and the crap organization we humans have come up with for handling it means we have to resort to drugs/alcohol/sex/video games to alleviate that. Fuck.
Arts, American Idols, and Cellphones.
Be afraid, be very afraid.
Our lord and saviour jesus christ, the way it should be.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't regist
Hey, don't we need gargage men, factory workers, and clerks?
This article is a lot of manure. "Unproductive pleasures pall eventually. After a while you get tired of lying on the beach. If you want to stay happy, you have to do something." He speaks for himself, obviously, as there are whole legions of people who prefer this over their work.
"So one thing that falls just short of the standard, I think, is reading books." Is this guy serious? I guess he never ever read a book, or, if he did, he didn't get it.
Why does this get mentioned on Slashdot? Just because the guy is a programmer?
>if he or anyone else thinks that luck was not an incredibly huge portion of it, they're wrong
There's a nonzero amount of truth in the saying "The harder I work, the luckier I get".
Well, I don't have kids, but still being in the UK education system I'll give my views. I believe that here, as in the US, more and more children are leaving school without necessary maths skills. Calculus has been remove from the maths GCSE syllabus, fewer and fewer children are taking science GCSEs. I'm told that the requirement to do at least one language GCSE has also been removed. IMO, this is arrogrant in the extreme, the UK is already trailing the rest of the world in languages, this will only make things worse.
At A-level the situation is even worse. In my further maths class we had 8 people. Out of a year of 200. And 4 of them dropped out. The problem is that no-one these days seems to be prepared to tell kids the truth about studying: languages, mathematics, sciences etc. will open a lot of doors to highly paid, skilled and interesting work. Media studies will probably not, no matter how easy it may seem.
My father spent his life doing what he loved to do -- flying. It was his dream to fly when he was a child, and he managed his life so that he could do it as long as possible, even turning down promotions and better pay so that he could continue flying.
He made sure that he flew them all, too, from fighter jets to the largest commercial planes, from props to jets to helicopters. He never got tired of his job, and would often tell me to do what I enjoyed doing, and that the money would come eventually. He said that while he struggled with making enough money to keep his family going the way that he wanted to, but he never doubted. After I left home for uni, he moved into a better flying position and tripled his salary, finally allowing him and my mother to make the kind of money that they really wanted. It took many years for that to happen, though.
If you ask him, he'll tell you that he loved flying until the end of his career. Sure, he made some errors in judgement and would change some things about his life if he could go back, but he'll still say what he's always said -- "Do what you love to do, and then you'll do it well. When you do something well and it doesn't seem like work, you'll be successful at it." I used to call it "subjective pay per hour (SPPH)," meaning that sitting in a 40 hour a week job where every day feels like an eternity gives a lower SPPH than working twelve hours a day doing what you love and never noticing the time speeding by." I think a lot of people on this site know what I'm talking about.
I have had a lot of problems with my father over the years, but this is one area where I believe he hit the nail right on the head.
Put identity in the browser.
Math would happen without math departments, but it is the existence of English majors, and therefore jobs teaching them, that calls into being all those thousands of dreary papers about gender and identity in the novels of Conrad. No one does that kind of thing for fun.
Graham has knocked the humanities before, implying they have less worth than the sciences (French literature being intrinsically easier than the hard sciences, IIRC)--which I find odd coming from him especially, whose personal selling points include a mixed background in computers and painting. I'm doing biological anthropology at school, which puts me right in between Arts and Sciences every day. I'm not big on the work involved in my lit courses, but they're required for a BA; but more importantly, I have no doubt that the lit majors and profs wouldn't qualify all of their work as "dreary". More to the point, I'm sure they can and do discuss things like gender and identity in the novels of Conrad in their 'spare time' for fun, much as the bioanth department can be so excited over masticatory apparatuses and early hominin cladistics.
I'm not going to defend English majors in particular, but Graham needs to cut out this veiled contempt, that each faculty seems to have for the other. Just in my Russian lit class the prof proclaimed how he couldn't understand Zamyatin's idea that everything could be expressed in numbers: "So they tell you that love is 86187129817--how is that supposed to mean anything?" Well even I could tell him that the 'numbers' wouldn't be isolated and so meaningless, but equations whose value would lie in showing relationships between other quantities. I didn't tell him that, but you get the idea.
So Graham: stop it. You're exacerbating my already chimeric undergrad.
I read Slashdot for the articles.
Most jobs are dull and boring but are required to keep society going. How interesting is it to drive around in a truck and pick up rubbish? Drive the same bus every day? Clean freaking toilets?
Want geekier: How many coding jobs are pure maintenance and incorporate support? How many engineering jobs do you get where you're able to work on a space probe or an airplane? How many jobs in medicine are research positions, and how many of those are more than just lab work?
Most jobs are tedious. To do something great and interesting and original you have to put in a huge amount of time and effort. You have to be in the right place at the right time and be a better bet for the manager that hires you. Often what suffers is personal/social/family life.
Tell kids the truth. It's all out there for you but you have to do something more than the guy next to you to achieve something spectacular. Do this in a positive way and they may just skip some of the arrogance of being young and thinking the world will change at their whim. Some of them will want it bad enough that they will be great. Others will realise that the life they build around family and "normal" social lives aren't just a waste of life.
This guy would try to tell an 18 year old there's still a Santa.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
I admire many things Graham wrote, but this is BS and so socially correct (similar to politically correct.) It sounds like he's trying to put some logic and new spin into this. It's like a NBA player telling the kids: love your balls, play them everyday, and forget about all the other boring stuff. It's people like Graham are giving the kids the idea that "I love playing video games, not math, but all successful people do what they love, so leave me alone" crap. Being doctors or lawyers are better than 99.5% of people's jobs, are we educating kids to try for the top 0.5% and die trying, or shoot for the 95% with a chance of success?
I love reading. I understand that money is not the most important thing in life. But not sure how far I can sustain myself economically, by doing what I love - reading.
I love traveling. I understand that money is not the most important thing in life. But now sure how far I can sustain myself economically, by dong what I love - traveling.
Loving something is one thing - being good at it is other. It certainly gets easier to get good at something you love, but being good at it takes more than that - the environment, the opportunities, the inspiration...
That's why there are garbage collectors, sewage cleaners, brick layers, factory workers, and the vast vast vast majority of jobs out there. People just LOVE that type of work and choose to do so.
By all means, let kids work to do what they love. I actually have a job I really enjoy, so do my parents. But that is lucky. Setting them up for thier self worth being "doing what they love" and anything less as abject failure will, by necissity, cause a majority of people be VERY unhappy.
There *should* be no negative connotations with the professions I listed above. It's is by no means a failure to be any of them - not only do they have to be done but many of them are highly skilled professionals that take years to learn to do effeciently.
Like it or not, cabbage needs to be picked, sewage cleaned, tar put on roofs, rocks crushed, etc, etc. You do not do any one any favors by making them believe that those jobs are failures when they are not. Ideal conditions are well and good to strive for as long as you notice that something called "reality" is out there and conform to it also. Those are all jobs that one can provide for ones family and live a decent life - which is what should be considered a success.
------- Sorry about the spelling, I suffer from two problems. Dyslexia makes it difficult to spell well, lazy makes it
I'm a research student in Number Theory - that's the most fun thing in the goddamned world.
James P. Barrett
Calculus has been remove from the maths GCSE syllabus
I can't express how glad I am that I went through that stage of the UK education system in the last year that they still did 'O'-levels. I pity those who have had to put up with that GCSE bollocks.
What would Lemmy do?
Paul Graham is such
a winner. That's
why all of his
articles look like
this on the screen.
He knows that there
might still be some
poor person trying
to read them on a
40-character
display, and he is
so tremendously
courteous to them.
I didnt RTFA, but are we to believe Paul graham loves writing essays?
serenity now!
Perhaps it would be instructive to point out that most universities and educational systems in the West are based around the monastery model. I happen to love it, but most folks don't. Why? Because the model was developed for folks like monks ... terribly dedicated and hard-working. In other words, they loved this form of exploration. Most people don't derive such pleasure. Why is it so surprising that most people scream for examples of how the stuff they learn applies to "the real world"? It's clearly because they don't love the learning in-and-of-itself. Universities exist because a bunch of people who loved the act of learning got together to spread the word, but most still think that the learning process is an end in itself, not a means to an end (like most of the commenters seem to believe). Do only what you love and you'll only love what you do.
First of all, I agree it's a blessing to be able to work with something one loves. If more people were able to do that I believe the world might be a better place.
;-)
It might be a mixed blessing however. Even if you love your work (tech/programming related in my case, and I believe in many cases on Slahsdot...). Mondays still come, work pile up, bosses who doesn't listen etc. It's not just what you do, but who you do it with, salary (up to a certain point) etc etc. In my case I find that working with what I (used to) love killed much of my creativity and it becomes just a job and not a hobby anymore on my free time. That, or I'm just getting old and bored
Connection closed by foreign host.
When I was a young boy, I awoke every morning to the delicious smell of pancakes. My mother, and father's dojo contained within it a hot griddle perfect for making pancakes, waffles, and a multitude of other pancake-like breakfast pastries. I remember them well -- The pleasant, care-free days of my childhood in the dojo were often spent peering into the kitchen with eager anticipation as my mother prepared pancakes my family.
.. the ultimate pancake. My journey took me to the many islands of my homeland, many days away from my dojo. My hunger for pancakes became my teacher, and foolishly I let it control the path that I walked upon. My feet, sore from travel, ached as my heart and stomach did, until I came to a realization. My duty was clear. I needed to take a stand and accept my love for the art of the ninja AND my love for pancakes. It was not wrong for me to love both. I love one as a dear friend, and one as a lover. Yes--My mission was clear--I must become a ninja, a secret assassin hired by the imperial family BUT I MUST ALSO ENJOY THE OCCASIONAL PANCAKE.
As I grew older, and began my journey to spiritual enlightenment, the memories of my pancake-eating youth filled my heart and dreams with warm, fluffy goodness....Ahhh, yes..the sweet, sweet memories... The day I ate 10 pancakes... The day I placed a warm pancake between my fleshy loins and performed the forbidden dance... The day pressed a pancake to my buttocks and encouraged my dog to come eat.. Indeed, much of my childhood was spent in pure innocence -- An innocence only pancakes can provide. It was heaven. A heaven, filled with pancakes, where I sat at the throne of God, with my hand-maidens Aunt Jemimah and Mrs. Butterworth seated beside me. An indestructible triumvirate made of flour, eggs, sugar, milk, water, and love.
By the age of 15, the path of my life became unclear and confusing. Torn between my duty my village and my love for pancakes, I foolishly left home in search of karaguchi ah-nowakadesu
My adoration for breakfast cakes has placed me within an awkward position. Many ninja refuse to recognize me as their brother. I defend my father's land, but I am looked upon as weak and undisciplined. I tell them, "But, brothers! Listen to my plea! The pancakes do not weaken me, nor do they make me disobey the rule of my sword. They fill me with love." But alas, they do not understand...For the mind of a ninja is complex.
My only earthly desire is to be accepted for who I am. Yes, I am a NINJA--But I also enjoy pancakes. Will you accept me? If you were approached by a ninja who requested a pancake, would you submit to his will?
This is totally unrelated to the original topic, but I found your comment interesting and have a relevant anecdote.
A few weeks ago I was sitting on a couch in a room full of people, and I was thinking about how strange it is that we consider there to be such a thing as a "frame," or quantum, of sight - for example, your entire field of vision at an instant in time - but there is no such thing, practically speaking, as a quantum of sound. If you tried, you couldn't mentally isolate a frame of auditory sensation the way you can a frame of visual sensation.
Anyhow, as I was sitting there I decided to try to perceive the passage of time not as a singular flow, but as a solid composed of infinite particles.
The weirdest thing happened: It worked. I felt as if I was viewing and experiencing a million disconnected images that flashed in and out of my mind at an incredible speed. It was disorienting, but felt like some kind of drug-induced high. I enjoyed it, even though it was unsettling.
said man was born free but lives in shackles....
-if at first you don't succeed, stay the heck away from paragliding.
What does the education system expose your kids to today?
STDs mostly. I'm not kidding, 25% of Americans age 15-39 have genital herpes.
While I generally don't admit it in face-to-face settings, I too fall into that statistic... but I'm not foolish enough to kid myself into blaming the educational system. Even at a young age I understood some of the negative consequences some actions might carry. Most generations since the '80s AIDS scare have grown up with a more realistic perception about sex.
Yes, since the day I found out, I've learned far more about STDs than I ever have at school. And yes, I wish the hassles of living daily with this was imprinted more on me back then, it might of made me more paranoid. But I certainly knew I was taking some chances redeeming those glory hole coupons at the fair last year.
STDs mostly. I'm not kidding, 25% of Americans age 15-39 have genital herpes.
Uh-huh. And are they getting it from their teachers?
It's a job for crying out loud. They pay you to do it because if it was fun people would be doing it for free. Sure, it can be fun for certain people, but there's a lot of people JUST LIKE YOU that would do it for less than you if it wasn't for the fact that all jobs have some downside. Heck, even skydivers pack their own 'chutes.
This is actually easier than it seems. Believe me, I used to be oh so concerned about finding a decent job. I still am, but more along the lines of not accidentally committing to a crappy job rather than worrying about my paycheck. The trick is utterly easy, anyone can do it. Step 1: save money. Put money in the bank, let it build up. It almost doesn't matter how much, any significant amount will build up pretty quickly, and once you develop the habit, it gets easier. Step 2: live beneath your means. This is somewhat of a corollary of step 1, save money by not spending too much money. Don't spend money on crap, spend money on stuff that really matters to you. Remember, money represents your time and effort, if you spend one wisely or poorly, the other will follow. If you waste your money on crap, you'll spend a lot of time working jobs you hate because you need the money.
The combination of these two things are very potent. They give you the breathing room, safety net, and confidence to be able to care less about money and to care less about keeping your current source of regular income (aka "the job") at all costs. Meaning that you have a buffer allowing you to spend some time out of work, looking for work, or whatever.
Finally, there is step 3: be prepared to take jobs outside of your normal "comfort/pride zone". I'm talkin' menial, entry level stuff. If you have to do this, then just do it. Prove to yourself that you can support yourself with a hum-drum, low-level job. Working at a grocery store, or in fast food, whatever, it almost doesn't matter. Hell, 2 part-time, minimum wage jobs. Whatever. You may think this is exactly the opposite of being able to find a good job, but it's not. What this ability means is that if you are really in need of any job in order to pay the bills, you'll be able to find one. This takes away that fear of the unknown ("how am I going to pay the bills?") that might come with losing or leaving your current job.
The combination of 1, 2, and 3 is potent. These things allow you to be able to go without work longer and work at a wider range of jobs. Meaning that you need never hold on to any given job no matter how much you hate it simply for the convenience of paying your bills.
It's amazing how quickly this works too. In only a few months to a year you will be in a much better position to change jobs at your discretion, or take extended vacations in between jobs, or choose among the jobs you want.
I'm not kidding, 25% of Americans age 15-39 have genital herpes.
OK firstly, citation please. And secondly, what makes you think the situation would be any different without the school system?
May the Maths Be with you!
I believe that here, as in the US, more and more children are leaving school without necessary maths skills. Calculus has been remove from the maths GCSE syllabus
I've asked both my parents (aged 40) who've both led fairly different lives professionally, and both of them learnt calculus. Neither have ever had to use calculus in their life. Now sure, there are some professions where it will be needed, but I think I'd find that if I asked the average person, they would tell me they haven't used it since high school/college.
To have calculus be a required skill in highschool when it won't ever be used for the majority of people is, IMO, ridiculous. Sure a lot of the stuff in school is taught simply for the purpose of knowledge for the sake of knowledge, but for an advanced specialty subject like calculus, it seems ridiculous to make it a requirement (everyone I know (regardless of age) agree calculus is difficult.
The way I see it, if it's dull it most probably mean it can be automated, so instead of keep doing the dull work, find a way to use current technology to automate it, if such technology doesn't exist, well, it should be created!
So I guess, what I am trying to say is, that eventually with enough technological advancement, mankind will not be required to do dull work! And our kids will have the freedom to do what they love. It's just a matter of time.
I am not totally, against training our children to do dull work, but I am sort of against, teaching them that is as good as it gets!
I have a career that I love. I work for people I love. The work I do (write niche software facilitating education) is a cause I love.
I get paid rather well, to do work I love, for people I like working with. It wasn't at all easy to get here but I persisted in doing what I love, and what I get passionate about.
And I love it.
Seriously, the only problems with doing what you love is
A) Figuring out how to make doing what you love create wealth desired by somebody else, and
B) Finding that somebody else.
People that are passionate about what they do are more productive than those who dread monday morning. So, it's easy to see why somebody, passionate about their work, following their dreams, can live without the political infrastructure of an existing company.
In short, if you really love what you do, do as Paul suggests and consider a startup! It's risky, and it's hard, HARD work. It requires that you give all you've got and then some, and you're more likely to blow it than not, sometimes in embarrassing ways. If it wasn't hard and risky, everybody else would do it, too!
I've been involved with 5 startups, 1 was barely break-even (actually, net loss unless my time was free) and 1 was profitable. The one that's profitable is the one I'm still with, that I love doing.
So ask yourself: how much do you value your own happiness and satisfaction? Be honest. If you don't much care about "putting in the time", then get up tomorrow morning at 7:30 AM, spend 20 minutes on the freeway, and make sure you get to your job 10 minutes early, so that the boss notices and gives you that $1.00/hr raise you're hoping for at the annual employee review next summer!
But, if you value your satisfaction, sense of accomplishment, and love of life, consider what you really like to do, what would bring satisfaction day in and day out, and what legacy you want to leave behind you. Decide who you want to be, and be that person.
And go for it!
My story? Well, I've always been at least peripherally involved with IT. I knew all about the 386DX vs the 386SX vs the 486DLC back in the day. I've nearly always had a computer of some type, and took some programming classes in college - but never found my passion.
In 1996 I started a computer store, with $2,000 and some card tables set up in a shop downtown. In a short while, working, hustling and selling, I had a decent business going. But it sucked. Windows driver conflicts were such a pain, customers returned computers when they visited porn sites and got a virus, you name it. I got sick of "wipe and reload". I hated it.
But I was making pretty good money! Not like, wealthy or anything, but considerably better than most jobs. During this time, I met a gentlemen who mentioned Linux for the first time. I did some searching. I bought "Red Hat Linux for Dummies" complete with a copy of Red Hat 5.1. I experimented with it, and discovered that I LIKED it. It blew me away when I hacked together a relational database with BASH! (simple/stupid, but it worked)
Very quickly, I wanted to do Linux and databases full time, and after alot of discussion, I got my wife to agree.
In the spring of 2000, I gave the shop to my manager for just $10,000. (basically, the money that I owed) I pursued a contract that would give some immediate money, and worked HARD on honing my skills. I read books, websites, etc. every chance I got. Work got hard to find, and things got very tight for a while. (You may recall a certain recession going on about 2002/03) I almost lost my house. Repeatedly. I worked long, 14-hour days, coaxing whatever money I could out of the meager contracts I managed to close.
Bills weren't getting paid, kids needed new clothes and shoes, and I was stressed to the max. I started having trouble with high blood sugars, and terrible insomnia - often several days without sleep.
But the turnaround was so sudden, it was very difficult to adjust to. In a single month, my income quintupled! And, not
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
be born with outstanding talent and in an environment that fosters that talent during your childhood.
Reality is as easy and unjust as that: everything/everyone else gets drowned in the dull bulk of the bell curve!
People like Graham, who have been born with the necessary "essence" often dont want to see the fact that they just had chance and there is no universal concept to solve the problem for everyone.
--- censored
Thanks for the link. That's a very insightful article that puts into words (very eloquently, I might add) exactly the vague feelings of discomfort I have about Paul Graham and his ilk.
Check out the parent's link if you have a moment, and throw modpoints his way if you're so inclined.
"reason they have to work on dull stuff now is so they can work on more interesting stuff later."
Forking lies.
In primary school they told me I was doing dull stuff now so I could do fun stuff in high school.
In high school they told me I was doing dull stuff now so I could do fun stuff in uni.
In uni they told me I was doing dull stuff in first year so I could do fun stuff in second year.
I started work and they told me that I had to start at the bottom with the dull stuff and then I could work my way up to the fun stuff.
I'm starting to think it's all just a big lie to keep the masses working hard to achieve something that will never come.
- Jessta
...and that is all I have to say about that.
http://jessta.id.au
It's not that you're likely to need calculus in everyday life, the GCSE is also meant to act as a preperation for A-level. If you take a physics A-level these days you'll find it dumbed down to extreme levels due to the fact that those members of the class not taking A-level maths are unable to do even basic calculus. The same apply to some of the quantative part of the chemistry syllabus.
We must have wasted hours of teaching time with our physics teacher trying to prove formulea such as decay rates for radioactive substances, which could have been done in three lines using elementary calculus.
It is my believe, that most of the succesful people in the world have one thing in common; they dare to take big risks.
This personality trade is also shared with most of the "losers" in the world.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
"In the US the only mechanism for forcing people to do unpleasant jobs is the draft....
Heh, I think there are a few mechanisms that you guys can think of.
When the posters fear their moderators, there is tyranny; when the moderators fears the posters, there is liberty.
We must have wasted hours of teaching time with our physics teacher trying to prove formulea such as decay rates for radioactive substances, which could have been done in three lines using elementary calculus.
Solution: Teach physics students calculus.
Most people will aspire to do a business, law or arts degreee in university, simply because these lead on to higher paying careers. They will never use calculus again once they leave second level education. Most of them will never even use trigonometry. They will however use caluclators and spreadsheets a lot, so why not teach them that in second level?
Second level education is being tailored to suit the needs of the majority, and the majority don't need calculus, or spelling, or arithmetic anymore. I nnot sure exactly what they need, but I'm sure they must be getting it. After all, there are more business, law and arts students than ever before!
May the Maths Be with you!
I'm getting mighty sick of all these seminar promising abstract plesure from labour. All this does is give Paul Allen more money and leave me emptier than before because the time I spend on the seminar, I could've spent DOING WHAT I LOVE.
They would tend to suggest the figures are closer to 1.4% in males and 2.2% in females. But if there's any conflicting data on this, I'm more than happy to accept it!
PS The Pubmed ID of the article is 16026639. You can get the abstract here
"I am seriously fretting for my homeland's future at this point, but what can be done?"
What can you do? Drop the tribe think and consider the Chinese, the Irish, the South Africans, and the rest of humanity to be the brothers they are.
Some people in some places will screw up, but I guarantee that there will always be people somewhere on the globe having a good go of it.
Glory hole coupons... seriously WTF man? How fucking stupid were yu being to do any thing like that.. I mean hey why not go fuck a few underage girls unprotectedly next? Jesus bloody christ..
I like muppets.
In my experience as somebody that was there, "the work you love" is a moving target.
... software developer.
:))))
...
My personal story is one of jumping around in school from area to area trying to find what i liked the most. Going through highschool, i've tryed (the optional classes on) electronics, chemistry and biology. I went to the University and started on physics. A year later i moved to and eventualy got a degree in electronics engineering.
All the while, ever since i got my first computer (a ZX Spectrum 128A) i was doing programing for the fun.
Eventually when i got out of University i started work as a
I spent the next couple of years marveling at how people were paying me to do something i would do for free
Now, if i was still 25 the story would end here - unfortunatly things change
The problem is, after some years working 8 h/day on something you love, it starts loosing it's appeal. To me it was a mix of:
- It started loosing it's challenge. No challenge, no fun.
- By making my work out of my hobby i've placed myself in the situation of constantly having to do it, even if i don't feel like it. Thus for me software development morphed from fun to obligation.
- In the quest for keeping my work challenging i've been moving upscale - from developer to designer to technical architect/analyst. This means that:
* It's harder to find a position at the level that i enjoy the most.
* I have to do side tasks such as "career management" in order to position myself to land a job doing what i enjoy the most. By "career management" read "doing boring stuff for CV improvement purposes".
* Higher level positions require me to develop skills other than the ones needed for software design and development - a slow process.
- There are few big (challenging) projects and many small (stupendously simple) projects/tasks. Thus when i started there were a lot of projects that i found fun, now there are few.
I still have moments of pure enjoyment from my work, but it went from 90% fun, 10% obligation to 10% fun, 90% obligation.
If earning a decent living AND doing something you love is important, that's not completely unrealistic.
No doubt, you may have to make some sacrifices. Perhaps you need to stay in school longer, perhaps you need to move, perhaps you need to take a crappy job that leads to a good job, or perhaps you need to simply do something you like a lot and are good at... as opposed to "love" and are mediocre at. Moreover, you need to have a plan with feasible and attainable goals. You need to be smart about it, and you need to be in for the long haul.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
Really, you can like to kids. Hopefully that have a better sence of how the "real world" is by the time they are old enough to get a job. I have no porblem saying "I have to make money to pay the bills and buy food and do fun things" and when asked if working is fun I can reply "sometime, just like school. But sometimes it's a lot of work." The whole "it's like school" thing can go on and on... sometimes its fun, sometimes its boring, sometimes there are people i dont like, sometimes I didn't do my homework, etc.
If they weren't, nobody would pay you to do them. Have you ever noticed that jobs which are "vocations" or doing things that people are desperate to do, are really badly paid?
I can only speak from personal experience but I worked a dull IT job for about 5 years in order to build up my recording studio to be able to compete with other pro studios.
I went through a lot of depression because of it- losing sight of the end and getting lost from time to time.
Now 18 months after leaving IT I am starting to make a profit.
It has been quite difficult- but by focussing on what is necessary I've been able to do it and do it alone.
If I hadn't thought big and been pigheadeda bout it then I would never have gotten this far.
Everyone else I played in bands with has gone on to a normal job and stayed there, but quite a few wish they had my life.
I think it is a balance between wanting it, working at it and keeping in mind that you may fail but the important thing is to keep going and not give up.
To falter from time to time is ok, to give up is not.
My response to people who think that you can't get what you want is to say that you gave up too quickly.
Try again. You have nothing to lose whatsoever.
Doing what you love is fine. If it's marketable. The real trick is becoming valuable to the market at what you love. As a musician, this is particularly true, however I'm quite sure it applies to any range of proffesions.
The other fact to consider is that currently (though I imagine automation, computers, and nanotech WILL change this eventually) there are some very marketable skills that I can't imagine ANYBODY loves. Garbage collection and waste recycling just two that come to mind, but I could name an almost infinite list. Everyone here seen "The Office" for instance?
rhY
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
For Gods sake, find SOMETHING constructive to do. /., kettle, this pot just called you black.
That's right I post on
...to just love what you happen to do?
I have a really elegant proof for Fermat's last theorem. If this sig was only a bit longer...
Well, he did say they couldn't add...
May contain traces of nut.
Made from the freshest electrons.
One of the oldest quotes about loving your work i know is this:
"If you do something you truly love, you'll never work a day in your life."
This is certainly true, but i don't know anybody who is *this* fortunate. Most of us simply work to live, and then there's that batch of people who live to work. We usually call them Workaholics. I'd say that most of those people do it compulsory, and are not actually having fun doing the thing they do.
I have done helldesk work for 5 or 6 years, and then got a shot at becoming a network/sysadmin. I started working for a detaching agency here in The Netherlands and although i had some crappy assignments, i had my little gems too. The project im on right now is the best ive had so far, and im absolutely loving it. I have no doubt that i'll get crappier assignments after this one tho, but im willing to take it in stride. I guess thats just life for you, taking the good with the bad. I dont think there *is* a job that doesnt have its drawbacks.
"Sarcasm is for *winners*, Alan." - Charlie Harper (Two and a Half Men)
From an Anarchist Point of View, work with in the current Capitalistic system, plainly sucks ass.
Motives for writing vary as much as motives for coding.
BTW, bugbear WTF arc?
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
I'm never telling anyone what to do, or don't do what they love, so just listen easily and relax..
Just think about this. If everyone are going to do what they love, who's going to drive the bus, be the clerk at the mall, wash the floors, etc, etc.
It's a new trend in society that we should realize ourselves by changing our external environment to suit us, and that this will make us happy. Yes, it may happen, then you maybe lucky. Your father is both privileged and one who makes his own happiness materialize in a way.
However, everyone can't be this lucky. And when you're out of this job you love, you will turn to regret and misery. This is the trap of all external joy, it turns into misery when it is lost.
There are ways to find happiness within yourself, that will last. Instead of finding the job you love, if that doesn't work out,
how about loving the job you do?
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
John Taylor Gatto puts it very nicely in his essay entitled "The Six Lesson Schoolteacher".
http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html
This is why I homeschool my kids.
... is whot bwings os tugevza tsuzay.
I don't know about love, but I do know this:
In a market economy, the only real measure of success is wealth.
Shame that we live in a market economy.
In the course of every project, it will become necessary to shoot the scientists and begin production.
I'm a college grad with a high tech
career. Imagine my dismay when my child
when asked what he wanted to be when
he grew up said, "a garbage man".
I felt very disappointed to say the least.
When I asked, "Why?", he replied,
"Because garbage men only work one day
a week."
Least to say, I only work the overtime I have to anymore.
I'm a software developer. I've been programming for years. I started it as a hobby, took all the relevant courses at school and eventually took it on as a profession. I enjoy programming, but I only enjoy it when I'm calling the shots. It's not fun when you're just writing something that someone else wants you to write. The things I want to write are fun and interesting but not profitable. The things other people want me to write are profitable but dull and boring.
They say the test of whether you've found the right career is whether you'd do it even if no-one paid you. I'd actually prefer it if I didn't have to do it as a job, since it'd be a lot more fun.
I work in finance, and while calculus has never been a requirement of the job, understanding the concepts of first and second order derivatives has proved invaluable (and provided substantial advantages over those who did not) several times and I'm only a few years into a career.
I've also tutored high school kids who could not at 7+9 without a calculator.
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
When I grow up I want to file all day, I wanna claw my way up to middle management, I wanna be a yes-man, under-appreciated, be paid less for doing the same job and be forced into early retirement!
30% off web hosting. Coupon code "SLASHDOT".
I suppose I've been reasonably lucky in that I've had the perfect job : street performing. No boss, no requirement to turn up at the workplace on any given day or at any given time, no tax, work as long as you like for as much money as you need, spend all day in the sunshine doing something that's lots of fun, that gets you appreciation from your fellow man... perfect! Made a decent living for a while, but eventually found I couldn't sustain it, and came a bit unstuck when I got injured as I didn't have too much of a backup plan, took me about two years to get back up and reasonably stable financially - currently a data entry clerk, for my sins. Thing is, at least I know how to have fun as a data entry clerk - and as an office furniture fitter, and as a telesales rep, and a warehouse operative, and an internet forum moderator, all of which I've done while planning and scheming to get back to the "perfect" job again (only properly this time), and paradoxically I'm enjoying juggling a lot more than I did when it was my living, which is always a problem when a hobby becomes a livelihood. Doing too much of what you love is a recipe for growing to hate it - far better to cultivate flexibility to be good at everything and a mindset that will find enjoyment in even the most mundane of tasks.
i cook...
i clean...
i wash and drive de cars!
i wear pretty things!
i service the women!
signed,
Raoul the Pool Boy
Anyone else read the title as "How do you make love?"
I just woke up and am a bit groggy, but when I read that, I was thinking, wow this would be an interesting read.
Quit your job!
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
No, the trick is believing that if you do what you love, it will be marketable -- enough to sustain you, anyway.
I grew up loving computers, at a time when it wasn't cool. I always knew they were my work (once the pro athlete thing fizzled :-). I couldn't be a stock analyst or a garbage collector, but I trust that there are people for whom those jobs are the end of the rainbow. I don't care much about money, as long as there's enough and I'm not in debt when I'm old. I just want to hack.
The other point is, there is always an angle, a way to make money if that's your real goal. There are a lot or rich (financially independent) garbage haulers. They start off hauling trash, then buy their own truck, or start a junk business, or something else in the field of waste reclamation. There's always a way to make money off something that's a least tangential to your avocation, no matter what it is.
Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
Maybe the most important thing is not doing what you love, but doing who you love.
Professor Karmadillo Songs of Science
Oh yeah? So the guy that comes round to empty his bins either a) loves his work, b) does it for the money, or c) does it for the prestige! Assuming that it's the money, this "encouragement" basically takes the form of "if you do this job you won't starve".
Honestly, what a load of smug complacent middle-class rubbish.
Win the lottery.
"How to do what you love" is a rather meretricious title for an essay on work, and in any case life rarely goes according to plan. Who you are is a little more important than what you do, unless you're one of those people whose first and probably only question on social occasions is "What do you do?" This essay omits the other, more significant half of the equation which is "What is the good life?". If I can't make a fair stab at that, chances are slim that a job will save the day. Besides, what someone said about the second question, say, two and a half thousand years ago may be as helpful and inspiring as what the Paul Grahams of this world said yesterday.
Personally, I prefer Steve Jobs' awesome commencement address at Stanford last year. In it, he said "Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma, which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice, heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary."
Which neatly shows up the perennial dilemma "truck driver or Nobel scientist - which is more worthwhile?" to be a complete illusion.
Las qué passoun
tournoun pas maï
Posted and reposted through out the community for over a week at least. Reddit has this conversation about it, started six days ago: http://reddit.com/info?id=28041
First time I've really seen Slashdot behind the curve.
Isaiah 43:19 (NCV)
Look at the new thing I am going to do. It is already happening. Don't you see it?
The American school system is terrible at this. With homeschooling we can promote the issues our kids are stronger in while still keeping each key subject in front of them. They learn so much faster with more time to devote to various other studies or fun stuff. I do not recommend it if the person teaching is either not to smart themself, or does not have the time to devote to it, but done well, it works great.
Religion and politics, without the flame. godgab.org
I had a job I really loved about 4 years ago but due to family pressing me into thinking I should be making more money and having a "better job" I left the position and went to a different job. I hated the job and while I was making 35-40% more I was no more happy and in fact was more in debt because I was spending more. One day I finally had it and called up my old company was asked if they had any positions open... I'm sitting back at the old company right now happy as can be and get this I ended up getting a rather nice pay raise and am at pretty much the same level as with the job I hated. Many people think work is just that work. You go and do your time no matter how bad it is. I just cann't do that life is too short to spent 9-5 five days a week doing something you don't enjoy. My advise to you little ones is at least try your fun jobs first if it doesn't work out at least you tried... I always wanted to be a forest ranger when I was younger so one summer I worked for the parks and quickly realized this dream wasn't so dreamy. I also love working on my jeep so while in univeristy I worked for the local 4x4 parts shop. Love it but realized unless I owned the store it really wasn't the same. Point being try things... You are going to have many jobs in your life and some will suck and others will feel like they are not even work.
Those of us that do what we love are fortunate. It's easy to tell someone to do what you love. If our children work hard, they may as well. However, there are a lot of things that just have to be done to get to that point. To get a degree in the field you want, you still have to take classes that have little to do with your field. If you start telling kids, "only do what you love to do" they may simply not take these classes seriously and fail. We could talk further about how determination and the will to take on menial tasks for a greater good built the modern societies we live in. I think we should be careful not to come off as pompous when discussing "doing what we love" because that's the sort of thing that can breed disrespect towards generations that have brought us here on their backs.
OTOH, the idea that "hey, I like my job" is a big lie adults tell kids to get them to cut the grass is extremely simplistic. Believe it or not, some people like to crunch numbers, while some of us find it repulsive. Others love to sew while others can't make a pair of cut-off jeans. Different strokes, people. Making the assumption that the bank manager didn't like his job but the jet pilot did probably has more to do with the fact that you think flying a jet would be cool. Why don't we teach our kids that they should pursue a job that entails what they love, but that they need to work hard to get to that point. They will appreciate it much more having accomplished it as opposed to simply having a feeling they are entitled to it.
But I've been doing what I love for years, and getting paid pretty decently to do it.
I graduated with a degree in English (go ahead and laugh, I use it every day to distinguish myself as the programmer who can write and speak articulately), and kind of floundered for a while not knowing what to do. I got a job as a glorified secretary at a small company, and wound up being the Computer Guy because I was the only one who knew anything about Linux when the previous Computer Guy (his name was actually Guy) quit. Of course this was in addition to my old job.
The job got worse and worse, more and more overtime, etc., but I stuck with it because my wife was in grad school and we needed the money. But one day I realized it was going to ruin my life and decided to make a change. I found a job at a place that shared my values (a university). It was less money, and still glorified secretarial work.
But, at least in my case, it mattered that I was articulate and had ideas to contribute about policy decisions. When there were gaps when people left, I was allowed to take on new responsibilities -- and get training and support to help me along the way. I got noticed by the head of the web development group when I volunteered to write a simple Perl CGI to replace the university's crummy static campus map website.
And it's been a pretty easy road since there. I've gotten to work on a lot of interesting projects. They let me switch to telecommuting full-time when I moved to England for a couple of years (the wife had a post-doc), and then to Florida (tenure-track!).
The lesson I've taken from all of this is: don't just slave away thinking your sacrifice will pay for your family. A crappy work situation can make your life miserable, even if you've got the house, the cars, the 2.5 kids, etc. paid for. Find a place to work that values you, and it'll all work out. Maybe not as well as it did in my case, but better than just sucking it up and staying on the treadmill.
And if you wanted to plan ahead, it could be even easier. You could figure out what the lucrative positions were ahead of time and get the education and contacts to get those jobs in the first place.
-Esme
Loving what you do is a discipline.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Or for that matter, being able to eat and have a roof over your head.
And even that isn't all that expensive... I live in a furnished studio apartment for a little over $300 a month. I've heard larger apartment are even cheaper if you have roommates. Your food budget can easily be under $5 a day if you don't buy alcohol and you don't eat out. Yes, there are people who can't afford to eat or have a roof over their head, but they generally have no job at all.
This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
"I'm not saying we should let little kids do whatever they want. They may have to be made to work on certain things. But if we make kids work on dull stuff, it might be wise to tell them that tediousness is not the defining quality of work, and indeed that the reason they have to work on dull stuff now is so they can work on more interesting stuff later. What a stupid comment. This is like Pyschology for Young Robots (subtitle: Integrating Morons Into Society Quickly). Kids are smart enough to figure this shit out at a young age. This guy is a complete idiot. "make kids work on dull stuff" "wise to tell them" "i'm not saying we should" It's like a pussy trying to explain how to manipulate children to be worker-bees. Disgusting.
We are one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. Back to you with the weather, Bob!
Speaking only for myself, I feel as though I've been pretty damned fortunate. I've had several jobs over the course of my working life, and I can honestly say I enjoyed ALMOST all of them. Since the .com bubble burst, I've had to take a couple of jobs I would not have considered if not for being driven by hunger, but even those jobs were OK (or at least had the illusion of being OK by virtue of affording me the opportunity to continue to eat, keep a roof over the family's head, etc.)
Is satisfaction with a job due to the work, or to the benefit from it?
A Series Of Tubes - The Remix
Graham's point seems to be that in the hard sciences there are definite answers for questions, a clear "right" and "wrong", whereas in subjects like literature there are not (except in the trivial sense of a grade-school-style quiz that simply tests whether or not you actually read the book).
The main point of the article is to do what you love. When Graham compares those who write "dreary" papers to naturally curious mathematicians who do math simply for the love of it, he strongly implies no one loves thinking about language, identity, gender, and I would add, media, art, music, etc.
If Graham truly believes the study of literature cannot be loved because it does not yield exact answers (which I don't think he does), then he may as well write off all artists, writers, and musicians (and those who love their works) a people who don't love what they do. My guess is that Graham is prejudiced against the humanities in general and English/Literature folks in particular. I'm further guessing (betting, even) that Graham's prejudice is the effect of bad personal encounters with someone who loves literature.
What follows is an email I wrote to Graham about his article on doing what one loves:
blog
I pretty much agree with this guy on the lying to children part. People seem to fail to realize that KIDS AREN'T MESSED UP UNTIL WE DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
I grew up in Mexico, and people always would mention living in the USA as "the real world," apparently because I'm an American, and I'm expected to return to from whence I came. I've been back in the US for 2 years, and it is not, let me tell you, the REAL WORLD. It is more like a world like where I lived in Mexico, but people work a lot harder and are more afraid of one another, and are less warm towards their loved ones. --(Gross generalization)
There was a moment of realization a few years ago where I was like, "Oh! NOBODY KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE DOING! EVERYONE'S MAKING THIS SHIT UP!" I realized it had been implanted in me as a child that at some point, people become adults and then know things.
Kids, this is not true.
And seriously. Do what you want. Even if you have to do some of what you don't want to do it.
Please stop stalking me, bro.
My Dad was a physician.
Everybody assumed that I would be one too--take over the practice when he retired.
Dad always told me "Do whatever you want to do in life. But do it well. Son, I don't care if you're a ditch-digger. But if you choose that path, you better be the best damned ditch-digger around." Dad also taught me that if you're working hard, you're doing good. Worst thing you can say about a someone is "That boy don't like to work."
Wound up being an engineer. Turns out, I'd always been an engineer; just didn't know it.
Folks tell me I'm pretty good at it, too.
So, as I sit here waiting for something to break (should't be long...)..
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
I don't mind doing a specification or requirements (I wouldn't call it fun), but I also need them reviewed, something that PHBs don't have time for, except when the delivered software isn't what they like, and then they look at the specs and ask what piece of dung is this.
If I knew then what I knew now, I would have gone into business or tax accountancy. And done software in my free time.
DT
Is this thing on? Hello?
Here is an excerpt:
"Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma -- which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary."
Read it here: http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/ jobs-061505.html
It is a truly inspirational speech considering the man didn't complete college and he went on to be the CEO of a multi-billionare dollar corporation.
After all, there is a difference between telling kids they can do SOMETHING they love and telling them they can do ANYTHING they love. Otherwise, I would have a well-paying job as a fraternity drunkard.
-Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
A friend of mine, nearly 70, tells the story of the oldest living worker in the U.S. When asked why he was so successful at his job his reply was "Do your job until you like it and then keep doing it." Lost somewhere among generational lines, is the "work ethic". Or the need for one. No "real" work is done/needed anymore. The U.S. has become a service-oriented culture...pushing paper in offices all day and enjoying eateries, entertainment all night long. No tool-and-die makers, fewer production lines, fewer farmers growing food for increasing masses. Imported slaves used to do the labor "legal" immigrants didn't want to do, now illegal immigrants do the labor the other two groups don't want to do. And we buy increasingly cheaply-made imported products from even more cheaply paid workers rather than spend more $ on the few U.S. industries remaining. (and I'm not in a Union!) From the responses here I would guess there's not a 3% variation in occupations of the posters. It's no *one's* fault...no single reason...just the way the world is spinning. If you think the worker's future looks bleak in January 2006, just wait till we've squeezed the last drop of oil out of the earth, the polar caps have melted, and water resources are scarce. Applicable from a recent FastCompany article, unless we can successfully change our behavior [to a work ethic] we will allow ourselves to die.
As opposed to working for self-actualization. The way the system is set up to be a negative ... work or die. I'd do much better work under a positive system. Wouldn't you do better work if you weren't one MBA's whim away from living on the street?
"You Gotta Do What You Gotta Do."
And then we wonder why people always choose the "Slow and Horrible" death...
My son said to me one day that he didn't want to grow up and work in a cubicle because all of those people have dull and boring jobs and just work 'for the man'. I laughed it off at first, then started realizing I have worked at a desk or cubicle for all of my 28 years of working. Yet I never found it dull and boring all the time. Sure, there were days when I was working as a project manager and just wanted to kill someone. But for the most part, I have always enjoyed my job.
I started out as a lowly office clerk filling out order and estimation sheets. I remember I used to see how many I could do an hour as a challenge to myself. There were always people around me to talk to for breaks and we would go out after work once or twice a week for dinner and drinks. Not a fulfilling job, but I only did it for a few years before I learned how to run Burroughs computers and then program.
As I started into computers, I developed new friends and found new ways to challenge myself by learning new skills as they were needed. And I loved my job more. Even the periods working 80 hour weeks to do bank conversions had their challenges.
I remember spending a month literally taking meeting minutes for technically meetings (I had been farmed out to one of our investors when our company was having trouble making ends meet.) They asked me if I was overqualified for what I was doing. I simply laughed and said if their company wanted to pay my company $100/hour for me to take minutes, they would be the best god-damned meeting minutes they ever had. I never resented it, I just did my job the best way I knew how.
Of course I complain and want to be paid more money for less effort. Whenever I don't like something, I tell my boss so he won't be surprised if I leave. It's not fair to your boss to not let them know about the things you don't like and at least give them a chance to change them. I'll never be like one of my cube-mates who complained about not having a 21" monitor. When I suggested he ask for one, he said he would probably never get one so why bother. Don't complain to me about something you won't do anything about.
If you choose to sit there and whine and be bored, not learn new things, and not post something on Monster.com, you deserve exactly what you are getting, so stop whining to me. If you are making attempts to improve your job, we can sit and whine in our beer together (in a manly way, not Brokeback Mountain way.)
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
It's interesting that the icon for a story about slashdotters doing what they love is of a hand gripping something hard and cylindrical with a bulbous end on it.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
Well, this piece comes at just the right time for me. I was an extremely creative kid from a small country town in NJ on the border of PA, eventually went to film school in NYC. My early 20's were dominated by my folks' divorce and my (relative) poverty.
Without available funds and lacking the courage to just go for it, I sluffed along in a series of interesting/curious jobs from working an a booker for a dance band orchestra to a medical education agency to events co-ordinator for Barnes and Noble and lucked into a (fairly) highly paid management gig at a publishing company.
I was miserable and all of 30. And I had a bit of a mid-life crisis.
I ditched my mad girlfriend, sold my worldly possessions (pretty much everything but my books and DVDs), begged my boss to give me a secret holiday extension (beyond the usual 2 weeks) and went to Italy for a month. In that time I rediscovered my love of photography, I found that I have a knack - I have a passion - for writing.
I came back, fell in love with an English girl and decided to pick up sticks and move across the pond. THAT was fraught with problems as well. I begged, cajoled and pleaded to get a transfer with my company. During that time, to save money, I actually lived in my office for four months to be able to afford the trips to London every 5 weeks or so. I was finally hired by the UK branch of the company, but at a greatly reduced salary and an entry-level position.
When I finally arrived here, I found that the job wasn't all that I hoped it would be and now I'm poor again and considering my future. I'm pretty much an indentured servant. I want to live here, but need to put in four years at a job that's killing me.
The real question is what to do with the future. Something that uses my love of photography and writing ... but what?
This is a very long-winded and quickly typed post, but I just wanted to express my pleasure at Graham's article and it's relevance to my life.
If you fancy taking a peek at my photography portfolio: http://homepage.mac.com/nevermore/ - I can send you journalistic blather about my life here in England if you wish, too ;-)
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." (Gil Bailie)
I felt very disappointed to say the least.
Pity that we see certain "occupations" beneath us.
Since everyone's telling personal stories, I'll tell mine, with a short preface: keep in mind that those who work in IT and wonder who will be the bus drivers and janitors ... you are the bus drivers and janitors. Janitors clean up to make work easier, cleaner and safer for others; programmers are largely involved with the same task. Even when you are in 'creative' mode, you become the bus driver, finding the best route to accomplish a task.
I'm a composer. That means I've done many things -- driven a truck, run a printing press, done programming, designed hardware, put down sidewalks, written books, shoveled dirt, run a business. I've learned a great deal doing it: That little of what we do is lovable work. That what we work hard to learn and put to use grows stale as society moves on. That as focus sharpens on a goal, scope of vision fades.
Let me fork this. I live in a rural area now, to which I moved 30 years ago. When I have focused, career-driven visitors from the city, it astounds me how few can experience what is before them. The cannot taste the air, hear the wind, see the grass beneath their feet. Who they are has become what they do. And I can't help but fear that their lives will empty out over broken levees when society's wind and rain blow in another direction.
Here in this topic, for example, a momentary subthread about 8-bit processors and math appeared. And, having been an 8-bit programmer who even wrote a book about it, I got a momentary historical shiver from it. And I thought, yes, I once loved doing that. But it was not lasting in my life. Technology moves on, and eventually everyone will either keep up or leave -- and the latter will dominate. The love will turn into what? A hobby pursued from a rocking chair? Anecdotes from Ye Olde Programmer? Forgetfulness?
I suppose that's why the Trumps of the world build great architectural monuments with their names on them. It's been said that one doesn't die until the last person who personally knew you dies -- or until your last monument crumbles. But I also suppose that a painting or a novel or a symphony is a kind of lasting persona.
And now to the other fork. As a nonpop composer, I know that my culture has shifted for a few generations away from this artform, and that there much less room for composers than for bus drivers or programmers. I had the misfortune of being born smack in the middle of the decline, which reached its bottom a few years ago. Now that I've been composing for 42 years, there's a chance that what I love may also be what I do. (At the rate of change, I will be about 120 years old by then.)
It has been possible to stay a composer with other work. This is the situation most artists find themselves in, and others in this topic have pointed to their novels and screenplays sitting on shelves. But the astounding thing is that it's not just the Sunday-afternoon artists who are in this position. Just one of the more than hundreds of composers I've known personally over the years is living on the results of that work.
I can hear the thoughts. That's the way the market works. On the other hand, only a kind of capitalist theocracy (a capitaliban, if you will) defines everything in terms of its monetary value and its place as a 'product'. (Those who know the opera The Rise and Fall of the City of Mahagonny will recognize the theme, where the worst crime was not murder, but bankruptcy.) The point of this statement is not to complain about an artist's condition, but to identify a dramatic flaw in the theme of "how to do what you love": What you love to do cannot be fully brought to fruition within a society that does not value the results.
The results can be weakened, the quality reduced, the visibility lowered. And yet, these cultural artifacts are what define the meaning of our societi
I was _just_ talking to my wife a couple nights ago about this (spooky action at a distance???).
In my opinion there are basically 3 types of employed people.
1) Those who do not like what they are doing - these people are either forced into situations that seem beyond their control due to socio-economcial pressure (my heart goes out to them), or they haven't got up the courage to break free and move on (DO IT! Life is too short to hate your job!)
2) Those who enjoy what they do. Like me, I am working as a software developer and find the work to be interesting and even enjoyable most of the time. This is probably the vast majority of people.
3) Those who do what they enjoy. This is where it is at! A common quote is "find a job you enjoy and you will never work a day in your life" (or something like that). Mostly athletes and business owners in this category, but there are others as well.
The key to getting yourself into group 3 is to ask the question "If you had a million dollars what would you do?". Unless you answer involves 2 girls at once, try and get that job!
Enjoy!
I'm in my right mind and I have the answer to everything!
Roberts C. Genital...
Man, I'd hate to have a name like that!
I have no trouble doing what I love. It's finding someone to pay me for it that's the challenge.
get to take 3 months off for holiday.
OK, maybe not all of you. But you seem to have a better grasp on that than we do here in the states.
I, on the other hand, had my boss tell me to take off the time I needed when my daughter was born. Two days after she was born, he was telling me I needed to get back into the office.
I think it is funny when people here make fun of the French for not working a lot, taking long vacations, etc. Sounds to me like they have it all figured out.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
What all this comes down to is culture. We are all arguing over something that changes from country to country, even from person to person. Some people believe evreyone should have a job they love. Some believe the job is only an ends to the means, to do what you love outside of work. Some people think you should just be happy with what you got and thank the god, gods, or themselves.(whatever you believe in). So when it comes down to it everyone here is correct. You should do what works for you. We are all different, so we will find different ways to cope with the world around us. Instead of badgering each other on who is right and who is wrong maybe we should just respect each other for finding a way that works for them. Now my opinion on the matter, not that anyone cares what that is. I think your job doesn't matter. You can have as much money as you like and the greatest job in the world but still be absolutely miserable. Being happy or sad comes from much deeper within, not just your job. We need to teach our children how to be happy despite doing tedious work. We should teach them how to find joy, love and beauty in their everyday lives not just summer vacation. We should show them that you can be happy no matter what conditions you live in or boring job you have to do. If we really want to prepare the next generation this is what we need to teach them. If they know how to be happy their job will be of no consequence even if they grow up to be a garbage collector.
WTF?
I can't believe I forgot car expenses... that's what led to the lady next door nearly starving. Her car broke down. She didn't have enough money to get it fixed (her spare money in that area was spent buying that car, which turned out to have more problems than she thought) and without decent transportation (there's no real public transportation here in Newark, OH), she couldn't hold a job. Sadly, she didn't think to mention this to me in our nearly-daily conversations and she stopped eating for about two weeks.
But you're right... I glossed over a lot of expenses in everyday life. *wrinkles nose* It's going to come back to bite me in the butt one of these days, but I never really got the hang of budgeting. I lower my expenses as much as I can and as long as my bank balance keeps staying at least level, I don't worry about it. I was fortunate enough to get hired at an IT job upon graduating with a bonus large enough to cover the part of student loans that I didn't cover with work while in school. It's government work, so the pay isn't spectacular, but it's a 40 hour work week and it's steady work.
This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
Or the life of your child.
I submit this as a hypothetical to make a larger point, so bear with me a moment. In November of '04, my wife and I were lucky enough to have a beautiful baby girl. Unfortunately, our daughter's arrival was early by twelve weeks. Statistically, doctors at her hospital put her chances of survival at 75%: better than even odds, to be sure, but still pretty terrifying when you're a new parent.
After a stay in neo-natal intensive care lasting just over eighty days, our daughter was finally ready to come home. Fortunately, my wife and I both had decent jobs with good health insurance, so when we saw the bill for our daughter's care, the total came to just over a thousand dollars.
The actual cost of her care? According to our insurance company, over half a million dollars.
The larger point I mentioned? Please don't assume that everyone who is in debt is there because they can't control their spending. Not everyone will be as lucky as we were.
Sounds like more neoliberal propaganda to mold the neoslave culture of America. We have gone from the chains of iron we wore as white and black slaves from 1610 to 1865, to the cultural indoctrination that we live under now. Nowadays we wear chains of silver instead of chains of iron.
THe elite at the top of our societal institutions act in their own best interests and not ours. They want us working just as hard as possible, just like they wanted us to work as hard as possible in the colonial white slave plantations. But we broke our chains of iron, so the elite shaped chains of silver through cultural evolution, effected by propaganda like this.
If you want to work as a writer in this neoslave culture, just wrote GOOD THINGS about the Culture of Perpetual Work.
Nice if you can get, and if you can stomach the hypocrisy. Of course most people never realize what is going on. They have already internalized the neoslave culture.
Just as the kamikaze pilots never questioned their fates as they climbed into the cockpit, so too do most Americans never question the Culture of Perpetual Labor.
eat shiat and bark at the moon
That isn't an insightful comment. An insightful comment would be based on, I don't know, "facts" or something. Like, for instance, how do these free schools actually work out in practice? Are they total educational failures? If so, why do they still exist.
In point of fact, the most famous such "free" school in the U.S., the the Sudbury Valley School, has been operating continuously for almost 40 years now; they have an enrollment of some 200+ students. Unlike your pontificating, they have been concerned with how well their model actually works, so they have conducted post-graduation studies of their alumni, and have published their results. They found a high degree of job and life satisfaction, most of the students got into their first or second choice of colleges, they reported little difficulty adjusting to the college environment, and there was a small indication that their alumni were more prone to entrepreneurial activities.
I've changed my mind several times myself, and you know what? Schooling doesn't help that much, because it can't predict what I'm going to do with my life. When I decide to do something new, I go out and teach myself, or enroll in appropriate classes, or whatever. This idea that schooling is capable of anticipating your future needs and cramming you full of everything you will ever need to know is kind of bogus. People are perfectly capable of learning what they need to know when they need to know it, as they go along. Hell, most people get most of their work training on the job, and not directly from college.
Students from "free schools" are trained to do that, because that's the only way they learn: by taking the initiative to learn new things when they feel it's important to do so. Traditional schooling gives the false impression that you can rely on classes to teach you what you need to know. Even in grad school I saw too many students sitting back and thinking that they were going to learn physics in their classes, when they should have been spending time reading the literature, talking to professors, and thinking about their own research program.
The entire point of a free school is to teach them to think and learn on their own, because nobody else is going to do it for them. You'd be surprised at how eager kids really are to learn things, even "dull" things, when they get to decide when and how they learn them.
I found this bit rather insightful:
Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. It causes you to work not on what you like, but what you'd like to like.
"Teachers leave us kids alone
From TFA:
The main reason they all acted as if they enjoyed their work was presumably the upper-middle class convention that you're supposed to. It would not merely be bad for your career to say that you despised your job, but a social faux-pas.
Why is it conventional to pretend to like what you do? The first sentence of this essay explains that. If you have to like something to do it well, then the most successful people will all like what they do.
Begged question.
I pretend that I like what I do for a couple of reasons, neither of which he lists.
1) rationalization. Maybe it's psychotic, but at a certain point there's a value to pretending you like taking out the stinky, dirty trash because, well, you have to do it anyway, you might as well at least TRY to find ways to enjoy it "oh, look, I'm outside in the fresh air"
2) courtesy. If all I ever did was talk about how much I dislike what I do, I wouldn't have any friends and I wouldn't blame them. Speaking about something that they can fix/change is constructive; speaking about something that they can have no impact on is pointless bitching, aka whining.
3) my dependants. For those who depend on my daily income to live, how would it make them feel if I were to carp about how much I hate my work? Something parallel to "you know, I could be off having fun doing what I want except I have feed your damn face every day!"
4) my boss. If you had a choice of hiring someone who convincingly says they love this work, and someone who says that they don't, which would you hire? I already despise the type-As that spend 80 hours a week at work and expect everyone else to as well (not-so-coincidentally, these guys/gals generally have no family, and no non-work life). Suggesting to them that I might not enjoy what I'm doing is a good way to make sure I'm on that "to be replaced when possible" list no matter how competently I do my job.
I read the article, and just got this overwhelming sense that the author is disconnected with the reality of most people's daily lives. Sure, it would be great to do what you love. In my experience, it's only a vanishingly small % of people that get to do that, because its rare that a person's passion intersects with the connections, the pay, the job, and the circumstances to make it all their occupation. Would I like to do something I love? Sure. But the people I love are more important than my own happiness.
As a side note, let's also recognize that as a male American, I've been brought up to understand THAT'S MY NECESSARY SACRIFICE for my family. Women go through childbirth and generally end up doing the most work for a family. But they get to spend more time with the children too. Perhaps I wasn't there to see the kids' first steps, or hear their first word. But they are clothed, fed, and sheltered - I have to take pride in that, no matter the cost to my own well-being.
-Styopa
Various people have various needs. For every individual who needs ambitious work and a good challenge, there is another individual who NEEDS routine work where no brain work is involved.
/. how many people would rather code all day long than have to do a manager's work. I'm pretty sure that the non-techie type in the population see programmer's job as being as boring as wiping floors, yet there a bunch of people willing to do it and loving it.
As they say, having too many generals and not enough soldiers is not a good thing. Fortunately, not that many people really want to be generals, managers, PHB or whatever position needs to take responsibilities. Just looking around here on
The key is to doing what you love is to know yourself, know your needs, so you can translate them into something productive.
I guess what we really need to decide is what the education is for. I'm pro teaching 'advanced' maths like calculus as a mandatory - not because I think that 99% of anyone is going to use it again, but because I think it's important to expose children to as many different subjects as possible. How many people use any amount of historical knowledge in their daily lives? On a daily basis who cares what years there was war somewhere, or who ran what campaign etc. How many people need to know the table of elememnts? How many people need to know the characters and plots of some obscure British writer? How many people need to know the names of the bones in the human hand? or what zebras eat? Or the difference between macro and micro economics? or... whatever...
To argue non-use as a reason to remove a subject from the education requirements will ultimately result in no education.
The real problem I find in our (Canadian) education system isn't the subjects being taught - but those that aren't, topics like:
- critical thinking
- decision making
- time management
- research/reference (i.e. the art of knowing how to find (out) what you want to know)
These topics are all about how to work smarter and how to learn. The idea is like the old "Give a fish, feed for one day; teach to fish, feed for lifetime"The existing topics are then furnished as general-knowledge/a-taste, so that everyone starts on a (somewhat) equal footing and has a general base on which to build their knowledge.
If you think imaginary property and real property are the same, when does your house become public domain?
Once you do end up doing something you love, you have to protect it zealously. Don't be so gullible, naive, or friendly to share your thoughts, techniques, code, ideas with someone. I made this mistake with a co-worker who I thought would share but he ended up stabbing me in the back. Be especially careful with what you teach your kids and always teach them to hold their cards close to the vest and watch out for disrespectful backstabbers. This is a rather painful lesson and I will never trust everyone again. This asshole decided to take my ideas, code, and architecture and take full credit for it. Granted, this fellow is smart, but be is one fucking sleazy operator and I will never trust or respect him again. I am making sure to be as uncooperative with him and his ilk and make his life miserable. Or, Should I go postal?
"[T]he tragedy of life doesn't lie in not reaching your goal. The tragedy lies in having no goal to reach. It isn't a calamity to die with dreams unfulfilled, but it is a calamity not to dream.... It is not a disgrace not to reach the stars, but it is a disgrace to have no stars to reach for. Not failure, but low aim is sin."
-- Benjamin Elijah Mays, American educator and president of Morehouse College (1895-1984)
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
"The Present" by Kenneth Blanchard is similar. I read it at a bookstore. The story-telling style of a young man in search of happiness and peace of mind might sound sappy, but there's some good advice in there. A short book in the style of the well-known "Who Moved My Cheese?"
404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
[GPG key in journal]
TO ALL EMPLOYEES
New Incentive Plan
WORK OR GET FIRED!
It would be nice if you can get paid for doing something you really like to do. The reality is that most jobs really suck. And people do them for one reason only, to make enough money to feed, house and cloth their families.
The real problem is separating your work from the rest of your life. Spending 15 to 18 hours a day starring at a monitor does not allow one to have a life.
If anyone here is interested in improving their time management or boosting their personal growth...such as "doing what you love" as Mr. Grahm wrote I highly recommend stevepalina.com
Steve Pavlina is games programmer turned personal growth export. In addition to having a variety of inspirational articles on his site he also has a (mostly) daily blog.
I often take brakes from my work by going to the web. I also end up wasting a lot of time there. Now, I have been going to Steve Pavlina's site, reading a short, online, inspirational article about productivity/personal growth, and getting off the web faster, inspired to do better.
FWIW...
http://www.stevepavlina.com/articles/
i never had any goals as i started out (being in a bar band is hardly a wise career aspiration, no matter how much i loved making music), drifted from unskilled job to job out of high school to support my growing family. i finally settled on job in construction based only on a perceived need to "work outside."
my son has always known what he wanted to do when he grew up. my wife and i supported him, encouraged him. he's been at it since he got of school. ironically, he loves what he does, but hates his job. oops, well can't say we didn't try.
Serenity now, insanity later.
>My father had a job he never wanted, but it was the only thing he could do to provide for his family at 18.
Couldn;t you say that the family was what he "did", and the day job was just a way to make it possible?
Granted it's pretty tough to turn a family into a money-making activity.
WERD damn, You heard, man you nerd!
I mean at the fair too? So what were these like carny rat chicks or something? Ewwwwwwww!
Your lucky all you walked away with was herpes...
If you spend your life miserable working and you live for those brief moments between the hours you spend at your job, quit.
Yes, I'm talking to you.
You will always find a way to live. You'll find food, you'll find a place to live, and you'll find clothes... but if you aren't happy-- what's the point of any of that? I'd rather be happy without a job or money than sad at work.
If you want to be a slave for money that someone you don't even know gives you while you make *them* rich, so be it. Don't be suprised when they fire you to better their bottom line.
Who's fault is it if you don't like your job?
Your fault.
You accepted it. If you don't like what you are doing, quit. Right now. Quit Your Job. Just walk out.
Now find what makes you happy and do it. If you are truely happy, the money will follow. -- paraphrased from Joseph Campbell
> Roberts C. Genital herpes
What an unfortunate last name.
So, basically, "convince yourself that you like what you do and you'll find happiness"?!
..... you're doing it wrong.
If it's never fun, you shouldn't be doing it.
The job overall has to make up for the unpleasant tasks.
Don't do, be. Become a professional. That is, profess yourself to be that kind of person, rather than being a person that happens to perform a function. The latter is a machine.
You don't have to have the same profession your whole life.
As for kids, Montessori has it down. Kids want to learn. Provide them the opportunity and whatever they need, and they'll learn more than any teacher could teach them in the same amount of time. My daughter did 8 years of Montessori. Then she did one required math course on her own over a summer, and the next fall was in college, never having touched high school.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
Pretty much everyone will have a use for these skills as they navigate their way through credit cards, interest rates, minimum payments, mortgages, and so on. I would guess that less than 1% have a use for calculus. Those that do, can learn it at university while they study engineering/physics/math.
Notice the difference between the first two qualifications in that sentence, and the last two "qualifications." All that the the sentence says is that he spent some time at those places while studying painting. I'll be charitable enough to assume that he was enrolled in them; I will not be charitable enough to assume that he is in any way endorsed by those institutions by having a degree from them.
*Sure, Larry Wall's got a degree in linguistics, that is true. He got it in the late 1970's, he seems to have done absolutely zero linguistics since, yet he parades the title around. (Which is still a lot more honest than ESR's blatant misrepresentation of his credentials when he goes around calling himself an "anthropologist.")
Fah.
I've done RTFA, giving it more than twice as much attention as it deserves, since it deserves less than half as much attention as it has received*. My conclusion is that a paper on the proper use of parenthetical constructions when writing Lisp code to solve differential equations in thermodynamic fluxes would have been more appropriate to ALL our lives. In oh so many ways.
Graham is proposing a lifestyle of directed hedonism and to some extent implying that there is a rational basis for such an approach.
There are several problems with directed hedonism. One of the basic ones is that if you are a human being in this universe, by definition you are not going to ever know what you would really enjoy doing before you are doing it. There is no way that the five year old on his first two wheeled bike could know whether he will enjoy bicycling; he has to go through a hellish period of embarrassing and often painful falls before he has trained his body in the art of balancing on his bike. We've all of us been there: investing time, sweat, tears, and often skin and blood into something that maybe, just maybe, might become "fun" if we keep at it long enough. At most this kid on his first bike might be imagining the freedom of being able to ride all the way down to the corner store. But more than likely he is imagining in some nebulous way that being able to ride a bike will somehow help him transform from being a "little kid" into being a "big kid".
That transformation, from "little kid" to "big kid", is a Big Mystery. All little kids know of it; and all of us have by now been through some kind of transformative passage and can remember when we were pining so badly for the unguessable rights, privileges, responsibilities and opportunities that would be ours as soon as we broke through to the other side. Being human is to want very badly to be at a different place where we can turn around and look back at our old life and say "I'm not a little kid any more". Being human is to be working at confronting the next Big Mystery-- for there is always another one ahead, as soon as we turn forward and look at where we might go next.
That is what defines us as humans; that is a common theme throughout all the myths of all the different cultures. Being human is to be able to dream of changing into something that is so much greater than who we are right now that we cannot imagine what it will be like to be living that way. Having a good life has to do with the pursuit of these transformative moments, not with any happiness that may or may not ensue afterward.
Hedonism of any kind is pretty limiting: of itself it will only lead to a more comfortable rut that in its comfort just gets deeper and deeper until its dank and dark walls start to close in. A life based on the challenges of self-transformation is just the opposite: it is all about breaking out of ruts; becoming somebody different with new and far horizons.
The trick is to acknowledge the fear, pain, embarrassment, and hard work that are necessary to preparing for the challenge of the next Big Mystery, while not letting these negatives get in the way of having fun and enjoying yourself. Guide your life according to its challenges, both those thrown at you and those that you set up for yourself: let those determine the content of your life. Then apply "hedonistic" principles to your life's style: approach each challenge in a way that is fun and enjoyable.
Don't confuse style with substance. Happiness is a matter of your personal style sheet and working on a good myLife.css certainly deserves some of your attention. But the substance of your life is expressed in the mysteries myLife.xml, and the end result is not likely to be satisfying if you allow your CSS to limit what you do in your XML.
*Thanks to JRRT for such a delightfully expressive formula!
To make a living, you must do something you do well enough that people will pay you well enough for it that you can live well.
Well, happily, we tend to love to do things that we do well. So long as that happens to be a thing that people will pay us well for, all's well as ends well.
(However, when your talents are mediocre or your passion is pointless, you're, well, "out of luck".)
"We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
The problem with America today stems from one root: defeatism.
People feel that things will never change, never get better, they're too stupid, everyone else is too mean.... Argh!
If there's one bit of advice I hope you can take away from what follows, it's this: Don't keep company with negative people. They'll drag you down and make you believe their religion of self-deprecation and delusional despair.
My mom died of cancer when I was very young, and we lived just above the poverty line in rural town for many years. I left college when my money ran out and my student loans got too high. I've only been in the tech industry for 5 years. I've spent most of it in work environments with bad management, complainers, backstabbers, layoffs, and bad equipment. Can I list more complaints? Sure, I could name a few doosies, but I think you probably get the point.
Has all of this gotten me down into a universe of self-pity, constantly bitching and moaning about how awful life is? When a boss responded to a request for a meager raise by saying "you're just a kid. Be happy with what you have, sit back, and learn something", did I get all depressed and say "maybe he's right?" The answer to all of this and more is an emphatic "NO!". In that particular case, I engineered events at the company to force him to raise me by (ready for this?) TEN FOLD the amount I was originally asking for. You might say that this would only cause tension with the boss -- and you'd be right. But hey -- stick it out a little while until you fulfill your obligation (the reason for the raise), put the new salary plus a little pad as your asking price, and go elsewhere. Not so bad if you plan it out.
The point is that I didn't get all depressed or defeated. I used my accumulated value at the company to my advantage, forcing them to pay me what I wanted and was actually worth by waiting for an opportune time when they absolutely could not lose me, and pressing my advantage. (Another quote from the boss: "You know that if I could fire you right now, I would. And I think you know that.") Dirty? Maybe. But so is "You're just a kid", [so I'm not going to pay you what you're worth]. (I'm not making this up! BTW - this "kid" was 23 at the time and would be married within the year.) Fire with fire. Not my normal approach, but used as required.
This brings up another important aspect of success: the willingness to move or accept change. Don't grow roots. Move every couple years. Salary increases will almost never keep up with your market value unless you have a smart employer, which you probably don't.
In all of this, I don't want to understate the importance of hard work. I've busted my butt, but I've also made damn sure I was rewarded for it in the long run. I learned early on not to work for free. Your life is worth something, and if you choose to spend it serving someone else, make sure you're duly compensated in spite of your employer's and colleague's best efforts to the contrary.
To be sure, I act honorably and fairly as much as possible, but I don't take spit from people. I don't let complainers get me down and tell me how things will never improve. I make them improve. I take action. I create opportunity to make myself valuable to the company I work for. I do work I wasn't specifically asked to do (in spare time) because I see a need for it.
Now I'm doing what I want to do, and being paid well for it. A little self confidence and attitude can go a long way. In other words, "Geeks -- go grow a set and quit yer bitchin."
I don't know if you guys have ever been to Irvine, CA... but I'm sure you've seen an uber master planned community somewhere by now. The internet is likely the polar opposite to that way of life. The problem of career and enjoyment is solvable if there is a non-physical community to fit into. If you are in Irvine and must live, guess what, behind a Starbucks coffee machine you go making Maciatos. If you roll PHP doe into online systems people can use in Budapest, nevermind the US, chances are you will make less coffee for a living in your life time. As the environment for livelihood becomes virtual, surrounding issues like these from the physical impact of the workplace, will be virtually gone. That and all the people who depend on social security and other forms of other people's money to survive at some point in their lives, be it welfare or street begging- need to get a life of their own instead of relying on Billy Bob in Michigan to work in a plant their whole lives to fund the method other people use to live a life of luxury.
//de ~ 9cimi
Most of us, when presented with a job that pays $60,000 but is drudgery, or a job that pays $35,000 but is what we'd "love to do," will take the latter job. Those who prefer the $60,000 probably have good reasons -- like, maybe they want to save money so they become wealthy and do what they love all day, like Paul Graham does.
I think Mr. Graham makes one good point and five bad ones. The good one is that work shouldn't be drudgery, and that work as drudgery sets a bad example for children. The bad ones are everything else in his article.
At /., people love using mod points without getting paid.
I once had a signature.
In an ironic twist, the Demotivators website is hosted by Paul Graham's software, Yahoo! Store.
... become a porn actor!
Anyone ever get the idea that in college a humanities major stole Mr. Graham's girlfriend, or distro requirements forced him to take some unimagineably boring course, or gangs of roving English professors critiqued his lunch?
I mean, I have occasionally seen decent criticisms of academic trends in the humanities (Google "Sokal"), but that's not what I'm talking about. Every chance he gets, Paul Graham stops to take a piss on French literature, or literary analysis, or even novel writing. I'll note that he doesn't stop to do this with other academic endeavors far away from his chosen field, such as classics (Greek and Latin), religious studies, psychology, or history. It's never too protracted, but I get the feeling that there's great resentment buried there.
Note that he doesn't aim the same level of contempt at grad. school, which, if it treated him as it does most CS people who leave without a Ph.D., probably deserves some. This leads me to think that it's more than a matter of denigrating something he found himself unsuccessful at.
Literature of all stripes seems to occupy a special place of disregard is these essays of his.
These people might not do exactly the same work as an unpaid hobby, but neither would (his example) a professional mathematician do exactly the same kind of problem-solving work if he were doing it on weekends under his own direction. Just because Paul Graham finds dissecting literature or arguing points of the law tedious doesn't mean everyone else does.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Every time someone uses that phrase it makes the implausible sound within reality's grasp.
Offer to split the difference between your pay and the billing rate, and take the business back from the non-productive opportunists.
What about the ethical compromise? Screw the middleman that got you the job for a few extra bucks.... How about rewarding the guy that got you the work so he'll get you another one? How about one guy spends all his time bringing customers in the front door so you can perform your service? It's called specialization and history shows it is a likely path to creating wealth.
I know you can do it and I've personally witnessed this cutting out the middleman bit. But a middleman is there for many powerful reasons.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
Cent one: Ability != Desire.
Understanding this incredibly simple precept took me 31 years. I can only wish whoever's reading this, and gets it, is younger than that. Just because I had the ability to write code & get paid six figures by wall street doesn't mean I was interested in writing code. However, at the time, I thought it did. Monetizable abilities don't become desires even if you rationalize them to be so.
Cent two: Don't shortchange your ancestors.
Why did my dad struggle so hard to put me through school instead of abandonding me as an orphan in a dumpster ( not an uncommon occurence among the poor in India those days )...why did his parents....and their parents....and so on all the way to some early man who fought off a dinosaur with some primitive handtools...in point of fact, why do we strive so hard to raise our kids ? So they can coast through life ? Methinks its cause we want them to take great risks and do what they love, instead of conforming to the pressures of society. So lets not shortchange our parents' struggles by taking the safest bet...lets take some big risks and see what happens. Doing what you love is the biggest risk, but its the only one worth taking.
For the general student sure more practical finance would be good, but I'd argue that business (especially finance) is more of a specialized topic that requires the math. Almost all business decisions (and most of accounting) are better made once the concept that the income statement (and cash flow statements) are related to the derivative of the balance sheet is understood, but very few business people understand that concept (even those who should know better). Accounting is taught in a way quite similar to Physics without calculus, it is just taught that this does that because it does.
I'll admit that most of my work has been on the higher math side of finance (equity, debt and derivative analysis) where I would say just knowing business calc will never cut it. Wall Street likes to pay math PhDs or engineers with MBAs mountains of cash to do this, so I'm not the only one who thinks this.
Incidentially, all of your examples deal with interest rates which are exponential growth, which I have only rarely met folks who really grasp exponential growth without an understanding of calculus. I do not think it impossible, just that a logical mind that really gets exponential growth probably enjoyed math enough to take calculus anyway.
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
I certainly recomend finding happiness within oneself; but I also reccomend trying to change your external environment to suit yourself. You may fail; don't let that stop you from trying.
I have an Uncle, a very smart guy, who at some point in his youth decided he did not want to be a doctor, as he was on track to be. He decided what he loved was building wooden boats, by hand. This is not a way to make a lot of money, or even very much at all. So he bought a plot of land in the middle of nowhere. He built a sawmill, a workshop and a house. He built a great many boats. He built a violin and tought himself to play it. He raised a family. 40 years later, he has essentially no money at all, and more life satisfaction than anyone else I know. He has definitely found hapiness within himself. But has he changed his external environment to facilitate this? Big time. Could everyone do it? No. Most people are not as all-around competent at getting things done as he is, and very few have the imagination to see what really makes them happy. "Do what you love" is just shorthand advice for the imagination part.
Oh, there are no doubt some people somewhere who love mopping, but let's face it, there are a lot more mops to be pushed than people like that.
"Do what you love" in not a prescription for assigning everyone jobs in an efficient society; it is advice for individuals who don't want to push mops. If you want to do something better paying and/or more enjoyable than pushing a mop, you'll probably need to be good at it, or at least better than the next guy who also doesn't want to push a mop. People tend to be good at, or become good at, things they love doing. And since we're presumably trying to maximise your total happiness here, doing something you love get's you a head start to begin with.
When you get a job, don't get one that sucks.
--
WORK is what you have to do.
PLAY is what you DON'T have to do.
Great bosses properly manipulate this.
Wally: (to PHB at meeting) My business plan for the year is to stress test our network. I'm going to transfer large files from some of the busiest servers on the internet.
Wally: (to Dilbert after meeting) I came this close to making it my job to download naughty pictures all day.
Dilbert: I would have had to kill you.
But if we make kids work on dull stuff, it might be wise to tell them that tediousness is not the defining quality of work, and indeed that the reason they have to work on dull stuff now is so they can work on more interesting stuff later.
The author is simply describing the concept of "delayed gratification", but he fails to realize that this is the root of the problem.
Society keeps moving further away from the principle of delayed gratification. Everyone expects to get exactly what they want, right now, without having to wait and without having to work for it. And people have gotten this way because they've never been forced (by parents or by society) to endure hardship before receiving rewards.
This is why the national debt/savings picture keeps getting worse. It's why the national education level keeps declining. It's why we're in a downward spiral of oil consumption leading to societal collapse. It's why obesity is an epidemic while diet fads are a booming industry. It all boils down to the fact that no one wants to do the unpleasant things required to achieve the desired payoff.
Around all of this, a form of NIMBY-ism ("not in my backyard") is developing. Why work hard to achieve something when you can sit back and let somebody else do the hard work for you? Why study science in college and help society make scientific progress when you can instead drop out of school and play XBOX while somebody else cures cancer? Why get active in politics and fight against injustice when somebody else will deal with that and set things right so you can enjoy your civil liberties?
Failing to instill a good mastery of delayed gratification in people leads to all kinds of problems, including a shirking of personal responsibility and good citizenship.
Moderator hint: a comment is neither "Flamebait" nor "Troll" if it is true.
Middlemen and managers are fungible. Which is how they treat you. But you're the one with the skills. You can do their job. They can't do yours.
Hm. I just skimmed it and I found it rather agreeable.
Graham is proposing a lifestyle of directed hedonism and to some extent implying that there is a rational basis for such an approach. [. .
I think you might be mistaken in what the author is suggesting. Accusing him of recommending lives of pure hedonism is hardly fair.
From the Article. . .
It seems to me that you aren't really disagreeing with the author so much as phrasing it differently.
The area which I do tend to side with you is that the Author does not emphasize the requirement of struggle to reach a worthy goal. Though, I also doubt he would disagree.
Yes, pain and work are often required to achieve a worthy goal. "Fun", as I think it is meant here, might perhaps be better called, "Passion". --I know from experience that when my passion is fired up, I find myself excited by a certain challenge or possible reality I suddenly want to call into being. This is Fun! The work and the pain required to do this are an accepted price, but "Following Your Bliss," as Joseph Campbell tells us, and "Living on the Edge of Your Hysteria," as Ray Bradbury put it, and "Following a Path With Heart," as Carlos Castaneda's Don Juan advised us, are how a person might recognize which path is the right one to follow, and it is entirely noble to seek such paths. I don't think any of these people, including Paul Graham, are suggesting that people should become slothful hedonists. Not in the least!
I don't think any of us are on the wrong page here. I think we're just speaking using different languages about the same subject.
-FL
By high school, the prospect of an actual job was on the horizon. Adults would sometimes come to speak to us about their work, or we would go to see them at work. It was always understood that they enjoyed what they did. In retrospect I think one may have: the private jet pilot. But I don't think the bank manager really did.
The main reason they all acted as if they enjoyed their work was presumably the upper-middle class convention that you're supposed to. It would not merely be bad for your career to say that you despised your job, but a social faux-pas.
Why does he just assume that? Some people enjoy working with other people, and even managing them. Some people enjoy working with money, and actually making some, which is more than many programmers can say these days ...
I think what we learn here is that Graham can't picture himself enjoying being a bank manager, and therefore he can't picture anybody really enjoying it. Which is kind of not so smart, when you get down to it.
Yeah I tell my kids they have to do the boring shit in school then when they get my age they can spend their day drinking wine and debating politics on IRC .
I know plenty of people who discuss and write about exactly those sorts of things for fun. In fact, I would say that having the opportunity to discuss great literature in a meaningful is exactly the draw of college for many people. Truly excellent writers and thinkers get paid to do such. Isn't that the point of the article, doing what you love?
Sheesh.
Vericon is coming!
Work is no more something to love than death is. They are both a curse on the human condition. I watch fools spend their whole lives finding ways to work more. We need to find ways for people to work less. In our culture in the USA we are raised to be thinking about our careers. Then we spend our school years planning for our careers, and we spend the rest of our lives working in our careers. In the few spare minutes in between we live our lives. This is not freedom. This is slavery. What we should be doing is working together to make it so that most things in this world are free. Then we would only spend a short time working for the rest of the things that are not free. Maybe we could start living life for a change.
Which is why it's important for young people to explore their options before trying to start a family. There's no doubt that once you take on such responsibilities, it's exponentially harder to take risks.
Your point is valid, but you should also point out that by putting first things first, you can usually get All of the Above. By tackling the important, but not urgent, issue (job you like) first, you can almost always make more money long term which makes it easy to accomplish the other goals.
Bollocks: If text is easy to read in narrow columns, why aren't all hardcopy books published that way?
... about 10 words per line.
... wait, they have exactly the same number of words on a page with two columns. Maybe even fewer. What was your argument, again?
They are.
A random selection of the 6 closest books to me (which vary in physical width from 5 to almost 8 inches) all have about 10 words per line, despite differences in page size, font size, and margin size. Paul Graham's pages have
Making it go all the way across a window (more words per line) would be the equivalent of a normal-sized book where a line of text started on the left page and continued onto the right page. Or a book which was read normally but over 12 inches wide when closed.
Newspapers use column format to get more leads on each page.
Encyclopedias, dictionaries, and other books with very-wide pages or very-small print often use two or three columns per page. Surely you aren't suggesting that Webster thinks they can sell more copies if they have more words in the
It would. And I can think of things even easier than that. But that's not the point.
JFK's speechwriters put it quite eloquently:
"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not only because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."
who is Roberts C. Genital?
In an individualist way, Paul Graham is ignoring the bigger picture, and just advising individuals on how to have a better life in a failing society. There is nothing wrong with that kind of good advice by itself, and it is good advice, but it lacks social context, lacks long term planning, and lacks a way to make things permanently better for people without a lot of social advantages needed to follow that advice (let alone have time to read it).
From:
http://deoxy.org/endwork.htm
http://www.whywork.org/rethinking/whywork/abolitio n.html
"Liberals say we should end employment discrimination. I say we should end employment. Conservatives support right-to-work laws. Following Karl Marx's wayward son-in-law Paul Lafargue I support the right to be lazy. Leftists favor full employment. Like the surrealists--except that I'm not kidding--I favor full unemployment. Trotskyists agitate for permanent revolution. I agitate for permanent revelry. But if all the ideologues (as they do) advocate work--and not only because they plan to make other people do theirs--they are strangely reluctant to say so. They will carry on endlessly about wages, hours, working conditions, exploitation, productivity, profitability. They'll gladly talk about anything but work itself. These experts who offer to do our thinking for us rarely share their conclusions about work, for all its saliency in the lives of all of us. Among themselves they quibble over the details. Unions and management agree that we ought to sell the time of our lives in exchange for survival, although they haggle over the price. Marxists think we should be bossed by bureaucrats. Libertarians think we should be bossed by businessmen. Feminists don't care which form bossing takes so long as the bosses are women. Clearly these ideology-mongers have serious differences over how to divvy up the spoils of power. Just as clearly, none of them have any objection to power as such and all of them want to keep us working."
Bob Black then goes on to say most work is unneeded, most of the rest can be made into fun, and the small remaining amount no one wants to do can be automated.
We have the system of "work" we do as a holdover from an agricultural feudal mindset coupled with a scarcity driven ideology (where dollars are really "ration units"). Compare this with, for example the better parts of the hunter-gatherer lifestyle, see: "The Original Affluent Society -- by Marshall Sahlins"
http://www.eco-action.org/dt/affluent.html
for a description of life in a world where there is abundance for all with only a limited need for other-directed "work", where the productivity of the surrounding (living) system far exceeds that of collective human needs.
I don't see we have much of a good alternative to a post-work "utopia" for all;
"Utopia or Oblivian -- by Buckminster Fuller"
http://www.bfi.org/node/17
we either build the world Bob Black envisions (or something like it, whether Bucky Fuller's ideas, or see James P. Hogan's _Voyage from Yesteryear_ novel for a related perspective,
http://www.jamesphogan.com/books/voyage/baen99/tit lepage.shtml )
with abundance for all people, or, alternatively, by following the status quo off the cliffs of either pollution or warfare, humanity (though probably neither life nor intelligence nor humans) will perish in a world driven to destruction by putting abstractions like profits or nationalism ahead of basic human needs (including the basic human need not to be bored or demeaned eight hours a day). Does it all have to change in one day? No. You can build a better world bit by bit -- and that's one thi
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
Wrong. If you could do their job, why aren't you? Why did you get hired by that guy, only to go and screw him for it?
As the grandparent post said, it's called specialization. Maybe you can do your boss's job, but can you do it as well as he can? Are you the people-person you need to be to do his job? Do you have the skills to dish out tasks that you know you can't complete, and have others complete them?
Or do you just have it in your head that you're better than the rest, and feel the need to screw the guy who got you your job? Remember, everyone is replaceable, until they're not. If your boss reads your slashdot post, you're now 100% replaceable, and will very likely be dropped as soon as he finds a replacement with better ethics.
Employment and services are a cost-value game. If you feel the cost of your employment to yourself outweighs the value of it enough, go out on your own and see the cost-value of doing it all yourself. Chances are you'll either be stuck doing consulting jobs for beer money, or you'll end up finding someone to manage the mundane tasks of marketing you, finding new business strategies, and leaving you to do the real work. Oh wait, I believe I just described a manager. Go figure.