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Linux Annoyances For Geeks
Taran Rampersad writes "Every now and then, someone comes up with a fun title. 'Linux Annoyances for Geeks' is a definitely fun - and accurate - title for this book. While some people have been fiddling with Linux since it first came out, the majority of Linux users haven't been. I started using Linux in the late 90s, and my work schedule didn't allow me to go to meetings, or track down people who knew things. And the first time you do an install on a machine, you may be disconnected from the very information that gets you connected. Been there, done that. So this book attracted me because despite being an advocate of Free Software and Open Source, there are times when I still type very naughty things on the command line. Read the rest of Taran's review.
Linux Annoyances For Geeks
author
Michael Jang
pages
484
publisher
O'Reilly
rating
8/10
reviewer
Taran Rampersad
ISBN
0-596-00801-5
summary
Answers to intermediate questions for Linux users.
Most of the time, I had fiddled with a previous install and gotten it the way I wanted it to work — when I had to do it again with a different install, I'd forgotten how I did it in the first place. There have been times, honestly, where I didn't even know. Fortunately, life has become better. There are books now. Some even come with Linux distributions, and there's plenty of documentation online that you can print out in advance when you go install things on your only connection to the Internet.
But there aren't that many books that really deal with the things that are annoyances, because the annoyances usually come from the late phone calls or the unanswered emails on a list. That's what this book is supposed to be for.
In reading this book, I caught myself nodding a lot. Not to sleep, mind you, but the, "I've seen that before" nod. The descriptions of the desktop environments, GNOME and KDE, started me nodding. Here's an idea of what the book covers:
Configuring a Desktop Environment: There's a great section on KDE and GNOME in here that starts the book off with a bang. Custom login menus, configuring standard backgrounds, desktop icons, oversized desktops and undersized monitors, Naughty mouse syndrome, Naughty users mess up the desktops, the infamous 'broken CD/DVD' problem, No GUI Syndrome, user downloads causing problems and ... sound. This chapter isn't one that I really had personal use for, but when people start asking questions — this is where they start. Great reference material here for desktop-finicky users.
Configuring User Workstations: Backing up data with rsynch and cron explained (where was this in 1999?), 'lost' files, 'lost' data... this chapter is one of my favorites, because people keep asking me about stuff like this. And dealing with Windows folks who complain that there's no ZIP — well, I wish I heard more of that.
Optimizing Internet Applications: I think that optimizing Internet applications is probably one of the largest problems out there, but I haven't really heard anyone ask about any of this. It's very strange. I think the world would be a better place if people read this chapter — from getting Firefox to work properly, sorting email into folders (yes, you can do that...), this covers a lot of ground in a very short space. My personal favorite was converting data from Outlook, which I have never done. Hidden in there are some tips on dealing with Microsoft Exchange Servers.
Setting Up Local Applications: This chapter focuses a lot on getting that irate I-am-new-to-Linux-and-I-want-my-toys person happy. It's filled with converting goodness, PDF inoculations and points you at the cure. And for those users who want movie players, there's something in here for them as well.
Installation Annoyances: This is probably the part of the book that will see the most use. There's a quote in here that I love: "Any A+ certified technician can list the hardware components on a computer. A Linux geek can cite the compatible components, such as the chipsets associated with a specific wireless card. He can use this information to compile the most efficient kernel for his system." So true. This chapter points you at the right resources and walks you through planning an installation. Which is priceless, even as a reminder for geeks.
Basic Start Configuration: Long boot times, bootloader issues, the ever-present dual-booting problems, the 'boot reboot repeat' problem, and my personal favorites, "I lost the password for Root!" and "My Server is So Secure that I can't log in as root". This chapter is pure gold.
Kernel Itches and Other Configuration Annoyances: Kernel upgrades, recompiles, kernel panic, 'file not found' boot error, NFS and Samba directory walkthroughs, and the infamous 'regular users can't mount the CD/DVD. Let's not forget dealing with Microsoft formatted partitions.
System Maintenance: Corrupted Partitions, emergency backups when the hard drive is knocking, small /home directories, slow hard drives, Update Repositories (not to be confused with User Suppositories), Dependency Hell solutions with yum and apt... platinum chapter for the troubleshooters out there.
Servicing Servers: Service Options, enabling downloading of files and , email issues when it is down, 'lost-printer syndrome', the BIND and growing network issue and the 'Windows Computers aren't on the network' issue. All rolled up here in Chapter 9.
User Management: Just about everything you would need to know about administering users, from special groups to keeping former employees from accessing the server, to securing the user (without duct tape).
Administration Tips: A lot of good things here for administrators; my personal favorite being configuring the Linux Gateway. Lots of great stuff in here.
For the life of me, I don't know why Chapter 5, Installation Annoyances, isn't Chapter 1. That seems to be where I've spent the most time helping other people out. The good news is that because it is where it is, the book stays open by itself here. Still, I think that might scare someone walking in while you're troubleshooting an installation. They might wonder what the 173 pages before installation problems was about. In fact, that could be funny... That's about the only thing that I could say I think is a bit off about the book, but perhaps that's by design. It's not a bug, it's a feature!
One of the things I liked most about this book was the fact that the chapters aren't named for the solutions; they are named by the problems. So when you're having a problem, you can find the solution.
Overall, this book meets the criteria for being next to my monitor, for quick reference in helping people out (including the worst one, me!). I haven't had the opportunity to use it's contents yet for Ubuntu, but since the book's solutions include Debian, they should work fine. As the author says in the preface, "The solutions are designed for three of the more prominent Linux distributions: Fedora Core, SUSE, and Debian." It would be interesting to see how it does with the Mandriva distribution.
In the Linux world, there are those that read and there are those that bleed. Those that bleed write what others read. This book was written in blood. It allows the leaders, the bleeders and the readers a means of finding their way around some of the annoyances that crop up. It does so in a well written manner which is well thought out, and amusing when you'll need to be amused.
( Original review on KnowProSE.com.)
You can purchase Linux Annoyances For Geeks from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.
Most of the time, I had fiddled with a previous install and gotten it the way I wanted it to work — when I had to do it again with a different install, I'd forgotten how I did it in the first place. There have been times, honestly, where I didn't even know. Fortunately, life has become better. There are books now. Some even come with Linux distributions, and there's plenty of documentation online that you can print out in advance when you go install things on your only connection to the Internet.
But there aren't that many books that really deal with the things that are annoyances, because the annoyances usually come from the late phone calls or the unanswered emails on a list. That's what this book is supposed to be for.
In reading this book, I caught myself nodding a lot. Not to sleep, mind you, but the, "I've seen that before" nod. The descriptions of the desktop environments, GNOME and KDE, started me nodding. Here's an idea of what the book covers:
Configuring a Desktop Environment: There's a great section on KDE and GNOME in here that starts the book off with a bang. Custom login menus, configuring standard backgrounds, desktop icons, oversized desktops and undersized monitors, Naughty mouse syndrome, Naughty users mess up the desktops, the infamous 'broken CD/DVD' problem, No GUI Syndrome, user downloads causing problems and ... sound. This chapter isn't one that I really had personal use for, but when people start asking questions — this is where they start. Great reference material here for desktop-finicky users.
Configuring User Workstations: Backing up data with rsynch and cron explained (where was this in 1999?), 'lost' files, 'lost' data... this chapter is one of my favorites, because people keep asking me about stuff like this. And dealing with Windows folks who complain that there's no ZIP — well, I wish I heard more of that.
Optimizing Internet Applications: I think that optimizing Internet applications is probably one of the largest problems out there, but I haven't really heard anyone ask about any of this. It's very strange. I think the world would be a better place if people read this chapter — from getting Firefox to work properly, sorting email into folders (yes, you can do that...), this covers a lot of ground in a very short space. My personal favorite was converting data from Outlook, which I have never done. Hidden in there are some tips on dealing with Microsoft Exchange Servers.
Setting Up Local Applications: This chapter focuses a lot on getting that irate I-am-new-to-Linux-and-I-want-my-toys person happy. It's filled with converting goodness, PDF inoculations and points you at the cure. And for those users who want movie players, there's something in here for them as well.
Installation Annoyances: This is probably the part of the book that will see the most use. There's a quote in here that I love: "Any A+ certified technician can list the hardware components on a computer. A Linux geek can cite the compatible components, such as the chipsets associated with a specific wireless card. He can use this information to compile the most efficient kernel for his system." So true. This chapter points you at the right resources and walks you through planning an installation. Which is priceless, even as a reminder for geeks.
Basic Start Configuration: Long boot times, bootloader issues, the ever-present dual-booting problems, the 'boot reboot repeat' problem, and my personal favorites, "I lost the password for Root!" and "My Server is So Secure that I can't log in as root". This chapter is pure gold.
Kernel Itches and Other Configuration Annoyances: Kernel upgrades, recompiles, kernel panic, 'file not found' boot error, NFS and Samba directory walkthroughs, and the infamous 'regular users can't mount the CD/DVD. Let's not forget dealing with Microsoft formatted partitions.
System Maintenance: Corrupted Partitions, emergency backups when the hard drive is knocking, small /home directories, slow hard drives, Update Repositories (not to be confused with User Suppositories), Dependency Hell solutions with yum and apt... platinum chapter for the troubleshooters out there.
Servicing Servers: Service Options, enabling downloading of files and , email issues when it is down, 'lost-printer syndrome', the BIND and growing network issue and the 'Windows Computers aren't on the network' issue. All rolled up here in Chapter 9.
User Management: Just about everything you would need to know about administering users, from special groups to keeping former employees from accessing the server, to securing the user (without duct tape).
Administration Tips: A lot of good things here for administrators; my personal favorite being configuring the Linux Gateway. Lots of great stuff in here.
For the life of me, I don't know why Chapter 5, Installation Annoyances, isn't Chapter 1. That seems to be where I've spent the most time helping other people out. The good news is that because it is where it is, the book stays open by itself here. Still, I think that might scare someone walking in while you're troubleshooting an installation. They might wonder what the 173 pages before installation problems was about. In fact, that could be funny... That's about the only thing that I could say I think is a bit off about the book, but perhaps that's by design. It's not a bug, it's a feature!
One of the things I liked most about this book was the fact that the chapters aren't named for the solutions; they are named by the problems. So when you're having a problem, you can find the solution.
Overall, this book meets the criteria for being next to my monitor, for quick reference in helping people out (including the worst one, me!). I haven't had the opportunity to use it's contents yet for Ubuntu, but since the book's solutions include Debian, they should work fine. As the author says in the preface, "The solutions are designed for three of the more prominent Linux distributions: Fedora Core, SUSE, and Debian." It would be interesting to see how it does with the Mandriva distribution.
In the Linux world, there are those that read and there are those that bleed. Those that bleed write what others read. This book was written in blood. It allows the leaders, the bleeders and the readers a means of finding their way around some of the annoyances that crop up. It does so in a well written manner which is well thought out, and amusing when you'll need to be amused.
( Original review on KnowProSE.com.)
You can purchase Linux Annoyances For Geeks from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.
Users
& paste.
This book seems more like a "Desktop Linux Configuration Guide" than annoyances book. My original understanding of the annoyances series was that the books were for making OS's like OSX and Windows more habitable for say people with a UNIX background.
"RTFM n00b" Possibly one of the single biggest reasons that more people don't make an effective full switch to Linux.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
Sounds like something to enhance/replace my personal "cheat sheet" of stuff I do to make a bare Slackware install sing for me. And my birthday's next week...one more thing for the list
"Adding features is more fun than finishing what you started"
The computing world is waiting around for the open source crowd to grow up and learn the difference between a Project and a Product.
A Project is never finished, it sits out in the garage with ugly primer sprayed all over it with oil underneath and parts lying around it.
A Product can be placed in anyone's hands and with the flick of a switch be ready for use.
It's no wonder that most of the most popular open source programs come from commercial company engineers who know that a Project is a Product that is only 10 percent done.
that mocks on users with funny anecdotes and stuff like that? A GUIDE?!
---
Donde Ser Geek No Duele
Donde Ser Geek No Duele
Once again Slashdot links to the book at BN.com when Amazon.com has it much cheaper.
I'm not sure I agree with that. If we were talking about anything but software, I would probably agree with you, but software is a different answer.
I would say that Windows and OSX are no more done than a good linux distribution, but they count as "products" don't they?
Every software project that a user is willing to put their money towards is a product. It'll eventually change, just not any time soon.
there are times when I still type very naughty things on the command line.
root@kungfu:~# history | wc -l
500
root@kungfu:~# history | grep fuck | wc -l
148
root@kungfu:~#
Hmmmm..
Can all fish swim?
For the past decade, my Linux books have been calling me a "Complete Idiot" and a "Dummy" for reading them. Finally, one that only thinks I'm a "Geek!"
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
Where is "Case Sensitivity" on this list? I mean, have you really ever used CASE to distinguish two different files? (Worse, have you ever had to try to describe cased files over the phone?)
Agreed!
Not to start the troll fest....but this IS the reason why Solaris and *BSD are (and should be) considered to be mature and stable operating systems/. (Keep your tinker toys out of the server room, kids.) But Linux - perhaps by design and certainly by its' development model - will always be a Project and not a Product. Albeit a damn good project.
That shitty text editor that you can't even backspace in. Join the 21st century and give us a better gui damnit!
The secret is to spend less time complaining and more time reading.
Of course a different operating system will act differently than the one you're used to. That's kind of the point. Treat it as something unique rather than as an inferior version of your current platform and you'll get farther.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
I read the title as 'Linux Avoidance for Geeks'. I was reaching for my flame retardent suit when the flashing red error light went on.
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
You missed his point. He isn't saying that being "done" makes something a Product, but that being together and ready to use does. To continue his analogy, when you buy a car, you're handed a key. If that car were some linux distros, you'd be handed a large box of parts and told there's a manual online somewhere to put it all together, and no key.
If I want to make serious use of Solaris I will have to install the exact same cobble-ware onto it that I would have to under Linux. This notion that Solaris is a "complete product" is just a Sun fanboy fantasy. Unix in general is "immature" and is still trying to catch up to the level of where more robust competitors were 20 years ago. ...and as far as *BSD goes: you must be joking. It's even less well supported than Linux and less complete too.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Give me FreeBSD..!
I'm glad someones finally publishing a book on how to get rid of PAM.
/* [ Go back later and write comments on documentation - 02/22/01 ] */
Flexible bare-metal recovery for Linux/UNIX
A Project is a temporary endeavor to create a unique product or service. Commercial projects can be much easier to manage. When you're paying someone to write a particular feature, they write the feature or you replace them. When you rely on unpaid contributions, you get the features that people want to write instead of the features you need.
You can buy a Harley like that for "real cheap" (Around $12-15K). So does that make the Harley not a product?
DIE VI DIE
die die die.
argh die vi damn you
dieeee
DEATH TO VI.
...and then you wonder why Windows continues to smack Linux around like a little girl when it comes to desktop OS deployments. (Ever try a case-sensitive search on Google? Why not?)
Well folks, i've been meaning to write this down anyway; here seem's like the perfect place.
Now, I am a 100% Win fan. I love it; things just work. But, I have made the switch to Linux (Fedora Core 5) at home, seeing as it does 99% of what I want. After a couple of months of constant, un-interupted use, my biggest issues with Linux are broadly thus:
1. No fecking media support! I get XMMS inform me on first attempt at playing an MP3 that it won't because of licensing conflict. Wtf? Codecs for avi's and DVDs were a simular story; all had to be downloaded via yum (bloody excellent tool!). Seriously; not good, but fixed in the end.
2. Why the hell do I have to install a new kernel? Why? I've never had to on Windows - why is Linux different? Is it so buggy? I installed with a factory version something ending 054. Now I have something ending 122 I believe. I did it ok, but that's not the point I'm making; were there really 68 cock-ups so great in the kernel build from release-time until that now they had to re-release 68 times? I'm guessing probablly not, but still.
3. Point 2 also breaks my nvidia drivers. I don't want to re-compile new drivers everytime there's a new 'patch'. For the love of god, why?!
4. X-Windows. What a mess. Why do I have to tell it my x & y refresh rates for my monitor? Windows just 'knows'. Many more things here I feel that X-Windows should just 'know' - the number of buttons on my USB mouse for-instance. If Windows can do it, there's no reason why Linux can't. Also, X-Windows 'feels' slower than Windows. I'm sure there's good reasons for this, but I don't care; Windows is snappier.
5. Lack of decent file-browser. The best I've come across is Nautilus in a mode that resembles Windows Explorer. It'll do for now, but as far as I'm aware, offers no context-sensitive menus for applications (like the Winamp "Play in Winamp" right-click menu on folders.
Actually, I think that's largely it. In all, Linux has, and is continuing to be great fun to play with. So many cool tools - yum being one of them. I'll stick to Linux @ home; it can only get better, but I'd be interested to know what people think of the above points - any suggestions maybe? I want this to work after all...
-Sr. Samwel.
throw new NoSignatureException();
>You can buy a Harley like that for "real cheap" (Around $12-15K). So does that make the Harley not a product?
Yeah, right. How many drivers on the planet buy their vehicle that way?
It would be interesting to see how many Linux complaints and annoyances date back to Unix.
Cheers,
Dave
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
One of the first things I do on a new debian system is:
apt-get install vim links-ssl curl-ssl wget finger bzip2 tar aptitude ssh
Hopefully you weren't stirring the old Vi/Emacs debate, because though plain ol "vi" is a real pain, "vim" is much nicer than "vi"
(oh, and for those using Debian, the newer versions come with aptitude already installed, which is generally preferable to 'apt-get' and can be used with the same syntaxes, except there is no 'aptitude moo' command)
For others, what are the first apps you install on a fresh linux distro?
The Project/Product nuances are worth exploring more. Here's my take:
Any Linux distibution is an amalgamation of the currently available feature sets: kernel, basic system, security and networking tools, xorg (if you need it), etc. In a word: snapshot. That reeks of Project status. ("Support for diver XYZ won't be available until the next release, as the hardware was released just after the launch date.")
Solaris and *BSD do not work that way. They are vastly (and centrally) planned operations. Goals are established and they are released at the pleasure of the developers. Yes, it is a pain in ass to get a Sun or *BSD system fully useful with many Project addons. But the point is to release a powerful, stable BASE system for your use. If that's tooo dificult for someone, well...too bad. Enough homework should allow you to be ready for the next release. (No finger pointing at anyone in particular here!).
Like my automobile, I want my OS to be a safe, reliable Product. There's a reason most Project cars probably won't pass inspection.
For the life of me, I don't know why Chapter 5, Installation Annoyances, isn't Chapter 1.
I think the OP just nailed down the problem with 90% of Linux books, and one of the big problems with Linux adoption by the less-than-ubergeeks. Very few Linux book authors seem to know how to teach someone to use Linux. Either they spend three chapters on the basics of PCs and lose me, they dive straight into stuff that goes way over my head, or they just present the material in as counter-intuitive an order as possible for maximum frustration.
I can't remember how many books I've picked up, started reading, and ended up shelving between chapters three and five. Reasons:
1) They never actually got around to discussing Linux beyond the sales pitch about why I should use it.
2) They skipped a lot of important basics that left me wondering just what they were talking about.
3) They had me configure the desktop, type a few commands in the shell, install Linux, and THEN talked about the file system and various other basics that are relevant to everything you do in Linux.
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
Motorcycle owners? Plenty. Motorcycles are like the linux of the automotive industry.
Never heard the state "You need to know how to fix a bike to own a bike"?
Almost every single motorcycle owner you ever meet with carry a toolkit with them on their bike so that they can correct things quickly as needed.
Besides, if you want a Harley bad enough and you don't have the $40-50K for one, that seems like an excellent option.
I can't be the only person who believes that, now that software does all the basic things, much of it is evolving from Product to Project. Even Microsoft, the supplier of boxed software par excellence, has got to come to terms with this; we now know that under the shiny paint there are hidden recesses with rust and loose parts and we expect them to be fixed as they are discovered. We also know that a company of some size can release stuff and label it beta, simply being more honest than labelling it "release 0.8" or whatever.
You can see Open Source as the logical outcome of all the work that was done on quality in the 80s and 90s: everybody involved, continuous improvement, no hiding place for bad work. You can see it as a response to the perception by many people in the standards world that software standards were abysmal. Oh, and I have yet to see the new product that can just be placed in someone's hands and used. It may be "ready for use", but the user will not be. Continuous improvement and user feedback makes the learning curve easier.
Pining for the fjords
From what i read, his complaints are mainly with:
- Unix Distros
- KDE/Gnome
- various GNU and OpenSource programs
there is only a tiny mentioning of Linux itself (THE KERNEL!!)
so, all in all i'd say this is a nice rant about non microsoft software in general.
My favourite annoyance is the default behaviour of 'cp'. Unless I add additional command line arguments, the file date will be changed into today's date. I don't want that. I cannot imagine why anyone would want that so much that it is the default behaviour.
At least it has been changed in Konqueror now. Two years ago I trashed the dates of some 100s of vacation photos by using Konqueror on a Knoppix CD to copy them from the camera card and clear the card afterwards. Konqueror on my Ubuntu Dapper Drake doesn't seem to do this. Nautilus doesn't either.
/Mikael (I used to run Linux, now I run OS X and FreeBSD)
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
Whatever do you mean? Linux is perfect with no flaws what-so-ever.
Ubuntu has more working out of the box than Windows. When I install XP very little works, when I install Ubuntu I have everything bar my GFX card installed and even installing than (sudo apt-get nvidia-glx) is easier than in Windows (hunt the net, agree to 'we own you' EULA, install, reboot). Ubuntu even has a working app suite, of course Windows has the calculator and notepad working as default so thats something.
Admittedly I always change the way my network is setup but theres no doubt that it works out of the box. They have even got most wireless cards working now.
Well the post did say Windows just works 100% or so, without mentioning device driver cd:s, viruses, firewalls and antivirus software you have to pay for, bloat, crashes, reinstalls, dll hell, constant annoying pop-up messages, reboots. adware, spyware, lack of a good package manager, call-home, lack of configurability, every piece of crap software costs money, Ballmer..Windows don't work for many people.
And the fact that you actually never have to install Windows yourself.. you just go buy a new "PC".
The points are good but ancient history. It's like everyone is trying to install Gentoo as their first OS.
Ubuntu users.
I'm not not licking toads.
This is good because one thing I've found in my switch to Linux since last November. The community isn't all its cracked up to be. I'm not saying its bad, I'm just saying its less amazing than what you hear before the switch.
When you run into a problem, if its simple hey no problem. People will line up to give you a quick response that will send you on your way. If its anything less than that you could spend days and weeks and longer finding an answer.
You google late into the night hoping to find something and you do.. a 3 year old post on a mailing list for another distro possibly from a parrallel universe. The only problem is the solution is "Hey I fiddled around last night and fixed it, no more problems guys!"
if you're really lucky there is an e-mail address, if you're blessed, the person still uses it. If you had a fresh horse-shoe inserted that morning he actually remembers the incident in question and how he solved it.
I think I've still got half a dozen or more outstanding "annoyances" on mailing lists and message forums for things that no one can seemingly solve. Like why if I change my window theme in gnome the background for all my screensavers changes from black to the color of the window border.
You don't have to know your x/y refresh rate in Linux. There's a utility in Fedora called "system-config-display" that will automatically detect your hardware and give you a drop-down list of resolutions and bit depths, just like Windows. You can run it from the command-line before you have X installed, or you can run it from within X to change your settings. I haven't manually twiddled my X configuration for years. (Well, except for dual-monitor support. That's one place Linux is still catching up on.)
HTH.
~ roscivs
I've been told many times that the following is flamebait, but I've never once heard a decent reason why, so I'm gonna risk my karma and say it*:
That's because for Microsoft to include things like a media player with the basic install is "anti-competitive." Ok, actually the EU decision was that they had to also offer an non-WMP version of windows, but it's still kind of a lose-lose thing - get labeled anti-competitive or get criticized for not including simple tools that they offer for free.
That little bit aside though, what are you referring to that doesn't work on windows upon install? A productivity suite like Office? Well, it is a seperately marketed product, after all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't OpenOffice or whatever is included actually a feature of the EasyUbuntu package, not the basic Ubuntu install itself? Your drivers point is granted, but those aren't exactly hard to install on Windows, either.
* (anti-flame disclaimer) - Please note that I never said anything to suggest that linux is hard to use or in any way limiting, nor did I attempt to imply that Microsoft is not evil or that Bill Gates is not the spawn of satan. I just asked a question, and I'd much prefer a coherent answer rather than a "you suck noob" or a "-10: Windows User" mod.
and here is my MAJOR ANNOYANCE from just last week:
/backup/last-backup.tar.gz
confusing late at night an "x" with a "c" and typing
tar cvzf
The Horror! And there is NOTHING you can do afterwards!
I'd file that as a major, serious BUG, being around for 15+ years as my google groups research showed.
I am a win xp user, and have been using windows ever since my first pc. I program as a living, primarily in PHP and CGI/PERL, and i am a heavy internet user. I have been aware of the apparant advantages of Linux over the past 5 years, and have made numerous attempts to give it a go. However, I have always found it painstaking to get everything working. As a newbie, you have to: * Set up sound to get working * Set up the internet * Set up the ability to play mp3/divx & xvid * become familiar with all the aspects of the operating system and applications * and have to make numerous other changes, just to get it working just the way you want it. * my latest attempt to install Ubunutu has failed, due to my ATI x800GT graphics card not being recognised And all these require extensive googling which can sometimes be painstaking. However, I have managed to fine tune my windows box to work exactly the way i want to, making use of autostart-up applications, installation of PHP/MySQL etc, wireless internet and so on. So basically i can load it up and begin working right away, exactly how I want it, and produce the results that i need. So, for me personally, I see no overwhelming need to jump to Linux, which would require so much more effort to even get to the same stage that i am in WinXP. Having said that however, I have vowed not to move to Vista in the near future either. WinXP does everything i want to do now; i would be very upset to see my 1gb of high performance memory be gobbled up by Vista just to have a fancy interface. And besides, from the screenshots it seems to be a mere Mac OS clone :p
To summarise:
* I can see why for some organisations, with the expertise could find it justifiable to use GNU/Linux, due to the relativly lower cost and customisability, however for me personally, my current needs are met aduaquatly
* Windows Vista is excessivly bloated, laden with DRM and comes with ridiculus hardware requirements...i mean to use Notepad on vista would require 1gb of Ram and a 2Ghz processor at the very least, why?!!!!!
You must be a gentoo user.
>>> 1. No fecking media support!
/var/log/Xorg.log.0 for details. You should no longer have any 'ModeLines' in your /etc/xorg.conf file.
Distributor's policy.
For RedHat, please see: http://www.redhat.com/legal/patent_policy.html
>>> 2. Why the hell do I have to install a new kernel? Why?
These are build numbers. Many are test builds which are not released. These are not always changes bugs but lots of times performance and hardware compatibility adjustments.
See http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/22/idpl/28456 36/com/changelog.html for an example of changes.
Windows also does this, it's called Windows Update. But most of it's fixes and patches tend to be in other applications. The windows kernel rarely changes because Microsft is not actively developing or maintaining it. Also hardware support does not need to be programmed into the kernel in the same way it does in Linux. But this has tradeoffs in terms of security and stability.
>>> 3. Point 2 also breaks my nvidia drivers.
>>> I don't want to re-compile new drivers everytime there's a new 'patch'. For the love of god, why?!
You generally shouldn't have to, unless the kernel changes version or some other change breacks ABI (application binary interface) compatibility. That's where two compiled programs no longer work together and need to be recompiled to function. Sometimes syscalls get removed or changed in linux and then you need to recompile to get them working again.
Again windows doesn't have this issue because windows never changes (which may or may not be a good thing).
>>> 4. X-Windows. What a mess. Why do I have to tell it my x & y refresh rates for my monitor?
It *DOES* just 'know'. For quite a while now. It's call EDID, short for "Extended display identification data". It's an open hardware standard that allows the video card to query the monitors capability. If things are configured properly, X along with your video driver will query the card and will know which scanrates are valid. Check your
>>> 5. Lack of decent file-browser. The best I've come across is Nautilus
>>> in a mode that resembles Windows Explorer. It'll do for now...
Not every enjoys "spacial mode", the default on some distros. It was introduced as the default for Gnome in 2.10 I beleive to very much mixed review. It can be disabled via gconf (similar to windows registry). See: http://www.larsen-b.com/Article/133.html
>>> as far as I'm aware, offers no context-sensitive menus for applications
>>> (like the Winamp "Play in Winamp" right-click menu on folders.
In fact, it actually does. In fact it's got "Open With" and a feature to allow you to specify which program to launch with, which is remembered and presented in the menu and associated with the file type by it's mime-type (file extentions don't matter), which is superior with windows, imho.
From the right-click context menu on any file, choose Properties, and go to the "Open With" tab.
>>> Actually, I think that's largely it. In all, Linux has, and is
>>> continuing to be great fun to play with. So many cool tools -
>>> yum being one of them. I'll stick to Linux @ home; it can only
>>> get better, but I'd be interested to know what people think of
>>> the above points - any suggestions maybe? I want this to work after all...
Glad to hear it. I wish more people shared your supportive and constructive attitude. The fact that desktop linux is where it is now is even amazing considering it's being built and shaped by so many people and specialized into so many different areas of use. It's still relatively new in comparis
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Enjoy.
sed -i 's/^# deb/deb/'
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I think the main problem is that they don't provide any uninstall option for most of these packages. OOo most certainly is a part of the ubuntu-desktop and is installed by default along with Firefox, Evolution, Rhythmbox and a host of other apps. The only thing it lacks is out of the box codec support but most codecs aren't installed in XP by default (even MP3's only have playback by default) which is why things like k-lite exist. Automatix and easyubuntu makes codec support as easy as k-lite.
Drivers for my version of XP are difficult to install. I have a Geforce 6800 and had to reinstall XP on my dual boot machine this very day. The default vga drivers on the CD are of no use (and I forgot to backup the drivers I downloaded since XP is little more than a gaming toy which a family member destroyed in 30 minutes) so I had to install Firefox then search the web, all the while my mouse pointer was jumping everywhere. Of course I could have downloaded the drivers in Linux then copied them across but thats a lot of effort for an OS that just works, you have to risk searching the net without updates or install Linux and use it as a secure environment.
Now the nv drivers are far superior than MS's default attempt and even if Ubuntu was going nuts I could drop it to a terminal and apt-get the driver.
>Motorcycle owners? Plenty. Motorcycles are like the linux of the automotive industry.
Yup, a tiny niche market. I wrote "vehicles" for a reason in my response.
Dude, I'm not going to live long enough to custom-build and then deal with the quirks for ever single stinking thing I use in my day to day life. I do it for Linux because it's worth it to me. For the other 99.999% of the population, it's not. A box full of motorcycle parts is not a ready-to-use consumer product and neither is Linux.
So far I see complaints about: recompiling kernel/drivers and windows... and, then there was Arch.
... hey its working now (not ONCE has this failed me on multiple monitors including laptop LCDs and otherwise.
I introduce you to the 'hwd' package.
Hmm my ethernet card isnt working.
> hwd -ec
(probes lshwd based on tables for usb pcmcia and pci and loads appropriate modules if not already loaded)
Hmm I can't get xorg to work.
> hwd -xa
(probes monitor, writes xorg config)
> startx
Anyone who updates their kernel EVERYTIME a new patch or release comes out is retarded. Typically I wait for a new 2.6. before I even touch it. But in the case of those who like it...
> Pacman -Syu
(syncs db, downloads files and seeks and downloads dependencies, checks for conflicts, installs packages)
All done. One command, and.... done. Upgrades the entire system... gcc/kernel/nvidia (or ati),etc in one command. No rebooting just make sure if you run a kernel update to update lilo/grub conf and for precaution... stop all running services that you don't need for just running updates.
No need to recompile anything... because that's just how life is with Arch.
My #1 biggest complaint in using linux has to do with sound support. It seems like at any given time there is at least one segfault-every-couple-hours bug in taglib, amarok, artsdsp, jackd, libxine, or artsd. I've spent many many hours tracking down critical bugs in these libraries and programs. It seems as if when one bug is fixed, another is introduced. Even when it does work, it's very lagged, but I have yet to experiment with the "low latency" kernel patch. Getting sound to work again after one of these applications segfaults requires shutting down every app which uses sound, restarting an application which uses artsd directly instead of artsdsp, and clicking your heels 3 times. Even after all of that, you can be guaranteed that your sound isn't going to sync up properly with video in xine or vlc. Sure, I could probably use OSS, but then I have to worry about making sure my window manager or web browser doesn't have the sound card open when I open up my MP3 player.
I've had quite a few other major hassles such as copy and paste (even with klipper sometimes i can't copy from firefox to emacs, which both break x specs and use different buffers), bluetooth support (doesn't always work, doesn't appear to be actively maintained), printing (should i really need read manuals on lpd and foomatic and gimpprint and cups and ghostscript just to print my current web page?), among other things.
Despite "common knowledge" that XP is easier to use, I've got an equally long list of bitches about it.
My solution was to buy a Mac. I can have a bash shell and listen to music at the same time. My phone syncs. The fonts are beautiful, and the UI is well thought out and stable.
That's because for Microsoft to include things like a media player with the basic install is "anti-competitive."
Not a media player, their media player. When they went to court in the US, they were still deciding what their OEM resellers could sell on the OEM's computers. Netscape? No way. A second OS (BeOS tried it)? Not on your life.
Ubuntu doesn't own a media player, so it's not bundling "their" player. Perhaps this is why when you install it, you can choose between mplayer, xine, vlc, and probably a half dozen more that I've never used. You can choose browsers too, firefox, konqueror, lynx, whatever.
FBSD works great for me: Sound, multimedia, even some flash. How can you make such a broad and pointless statement? I've found that the more automated support a linux distro offered the more aggravating it was in daily use. On the other hand, my Slackware years, while requiring a lot of make installs, were so easy and trouble-free I was always at a loss at how it acquired its reputation for being a terrible install. It's a perfect linux. FreeBSD has been even better, and now that they've put the 5.x mess behind them and gained java binaries it's been extra sweet. Java, UFS2, gmirror and ports. My oh my.
For everyone who has problems with Linux, whether your using/installing SuSE, FC4, Ubuntu, Slackware, etc. Go to http://www.linuxquestions.org/. You won't get RTFM responses. No I'm not affliated with the web site and have no vested interest.
Slashdot, while being a great forum, is not the place to get Linux help,
Enjoy,
It's just the normal noises in here.
I have a healthy catalog of complaints- some of them are fairly fundimental to the OSS and friends. So I understand that taking on a task from mulple angles will produce a solid outcome. I don't undersetand-Lets reinvent the wheel! Syndrome
Say hello Arch
Arch Hi!
Arch can you explain to me what posses your makers to not colliberate with a source distro to handle--source?
Arch: No idea..
hwd is bugy, sound is bugy, java is bugy (this is a near show stoper, firefox/konqui work. The lack of colaberation between projects just to name a few.
Kde has a long list of bugs, and worse, their fairly basic. For instance if you have a "long" file name copied to your usr home directory via fish. This apparently is not suposed to hapen in the first place-then kde won't let you rename it. (xorg ocasionaly segfaults as a resault). What the? The inane squabling of Free over "free".
etc.
Those were geared to Windows users and readers of such books are still mostly such.
You may have been happier with the earlier Unleashed series or those from O'Reilly without fancy adjectives. Some of the better books leave the decorations out of their words.
Still, whatever gets you there is good.
Don't bite that chicken unless it's cooked!
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
That's a very old and dealt with issue.
There are a few old applications around that might be annoying but most work better than anything in the windoze world. Almost all the common methods of cutting and pasting, shift-delete/insert, ctrl-c/v, and alt entered menus with shortcuts. I routinely do things like cut text from Kate (KDE) into gnumeric (GNOME) without a problem. Gnome not only sees the clipboard, it calls up the text import tool and gets it right. Tools like KDE's klipper give you your clipboard history for all applications, not just a few, and it lives on your taskbar. If that's not good enough, most applications also cut and paste through ssh -X forwarding. That's right, you can cut and paste across the network, through multiple machines. Do any of the M$ "Desktop Anywhere" type interfaces do that right?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
"The secret is to spend less time complaining and more time reading.
Of course a different operating system will act differently than the one you're used to. That's kind of the point. Treat it as something unique rather than as an inferior version of your current platform and you'll get farther."
Yes because I have all the time in the world to read books, manuals, web pages and forums. No, wait. I don't.
The first time I used Linux (Red Hat 'Manhattan' - Early 1996) I had to print out about 400 fucking pages just to get a small understanding of how Linux worked. When I was in college. And unemployed. Sure, back then I had the time and the desire. Now? I work 40 to 60 hours a week. On the weekends I go camping, hiking, fishing or riding on my RM-Z250 around Mt. Hood. I _don't_ have the time to dick around compiling lib-foofoo0.14ß from source like I did when the bulk of my day was spent boozing it up and gaming on the Playstation.
So spending 'less time complaining and more time reading' doesn't work for me. It doesn't work for a whole lot of people, I'd imagine.
I like big butts and I cannot lie.
Do they really? You of course realize who you're talking to here, right? Or did you forget this is the group of people who actually know how the Linux desktop environments work, as opposed to ignorant newbies you're trying to "evangelize" at to help them get off "Windoze"?
cut and paste through ssh -X forwarding
ROFL!!
That's right, you can cut and paste across the network
Oh yeah, haven't seen that since... um, NT4, circa 1996.
Project, Product, Operation, and various other terms have well defined meanings in software development and project management. Since the thread involves software development and project management, lets not muddy the waters by redefining terms inside a car analogy.
Hey, there is aptitude moo :) try adding a few -v switches.
Cheers,
--Coder
The network-enabled "clipbook" in NT4, while crude, worked well enough in 1997 or so.
Copy/paste between terminal server (or remote desktop as it's called now) sessions is completely transparent.
Using that ever-funny "M$" deal doesn't lend more credibility to your arguments, especially when they're wrong to begin with.
Transparent? I doubt it. It's only transparent if it's available and easy to use.
Does remote desktop comes with XP Home? Is it as easy to set up as "ssh -X hostname"? Why is it that just about everyone who runs free software knows how to use network tools but just about no one knows how to use the "easy" system? The average windoze user is not going to come anywhere close to such convenience. I could be wrong because I don't waste my time with the crap, but my impression is that M$ networking services are asymmetrical, buggy, expensive and shrouded in secrecy designed to bugger interoperability.
I would not compare that to a system that works symmetrically out of the box from any modern free software distribution. For those afraid of the command line, there's always the KDE utilities.
Like I said, I could be wrong. There could really be this fantastic, network aware clipboard from M$ that I've never seen used at home, or at any large or small company I've ever worked for. Pigs one day might fly too.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I have about 150 pages of handwritten notes, from first SuSE install to Gentoo emerges. Sometimes nothing more than a .bash_history, but diagrams and charts are inclued, too.
The poster sounds as if he attempts to do sys admin works every once in a while. He will always fail.
And I have recycled my notebooks in IRC channels numerous times...
But at the end of the day I am the CIO of an IT consultancy with 25 years of experience, qualifications in quality management and business software development, a former member of IEC technical committees, a track record of product development. And you are?
Pining for the fjords
mention that it doesn't have to be like this.
...
....
Where I work (major NA computer manufacturer, has it's own proprietary chip w/ Intel, you know who) the "Add user to domain" screen that managers use to add new employees has all the options available. I mean everything. If you can think of a setting in a dialog box off of "control panel" or "administrative [options/toolbox/**]" then they have it on that webpage. And all kinds of other stuff too. It's quite thorough. Also, the manager cannot give out more permissions than they have, so that limits some things right off. Plus, depending on the dept, certain options are [un]checked by default. So instead of:
1. Create User
1a. User Name
1b. User Icon
73z. Whatever
The IT guys have setup a process that goes like this
1. Select employees name and if they want a particular login enter it now and wait for the email address and initial login password to be emailed to you so you can print the page and give it to them to destroy as soon as they login because they will automatically be added to the groups that your department belongs to and you should select their extra classifactions below if HR didn't already add those into the database that the script pulls certain information from
2.
3. Profit ***
So granted, yeah, they haven't exactly released said configuration script or put it out on the market, but hey, it only works with their servers on their domains, etc. It's all custom. Point is, you can do something similar for yourself if you are adding a lot of users. It should be built into Windows Server on the CLI level, I thought, to some extent, not discounting all of the options that should be set. Yeah, they've got PhD's in programming and Windows who know all this stuff by rote and can build these option type pages and who have the time and are getting paid for it, but . . .
Where was I going with this. You get the idea. It's there. So *nix does this from the get go on the CLI. Not all the options, you know, and so does MS.
** whatever the name of that folder is since I'm on a unix box and won't go look it up
*** Okay, so they're not making too much money right now for profit, but at least they're not fielding thousands of manager requests on why their employees can't access folder XYZ on server CBA. You get the idea (I know you do, because you made it this far)
2^3 * 31 * 647
There's also a program called "jhead" which can do this for you (jhead -ft *), as well as other fun things involving the EXIF, like auto-rotating your images (jhead -autorot *) if your camera keeps track of the position it was held when the shot was taken (I know both my Canons do). Linky here.
We apologize for the preceding message. All those responsible have been sacked.
Talk about a book that probably wrote itself by someone with a few years of linux experience? I have an expandable binder that has about reached its 3" limit marked "linux tips" on the spine gleaned from all over the web. More than a few taking literally hours of searching to do some mundane configuration.
It has been my impression that documentation is the linux achilles heel. And too much of what exists is of the "Worked? Good! Worked? Good!" variety that doesn't offer a troubleshooting tree for problems. This book only follows the Windows series because of market share, not seriousness of need.
On this system, running the KDE version that comes with SuSE 10.0 (3.4.2 judging by the versions of the rpms), Klipper works fine. If I mark some editable text, or just anything in e.g. Mozilla, I have to press ctrl-c for it to end up in the clipboard. This is nice because it should be possible to mark something and then paste over it with something else. And if I mark some text in a terminal window, it is immediately stored in the clipboard, and that makes sense too.
But at home, where I've installed SuSE 10.1, and with it a somewhat newer version of KDE, there seems to be no way to get this behavior. Whenever I select text anywhere, it immediately kills whatever was in the clipboard. And since the contents of an input field often are selected when the field gets focus, it's suddely quite difficult to e.g. paste in a new URL in the URL bar...
I could of course turn off the synchronization between selection and clipboard, but then I could no longer copy with the mouse and paste with the keyboard in a terminal window, and that's something I rely on a whole lot.
So no, copy and paste is still a big problem.
This signature is not in the public domain.
The Unix Haters Handbook is available for free, in PDF format.
From a guy who works for Microsoft, of course.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
suppose you can define common workstation computers as general purpose machines, but since today's cars, light trucks, and SUVs (collectively known as Light Duty Vehicles) can all contain most common workstations (just add an inverter and pay attention to laws regarding driver distractions), while no common workstations contain LDVs (set theory alert!), one could argue that LDSs are a more general class of objects than small general purpose computers.
Nit picking aside, we use LDVs for getting from here to there in the civilized parts of the world and even the uncivilized parts if the vehicle has off-road capability. Once you start getting into specialized uses, the operation of LDVs can become complex quite rapidly. Ditto for workstations. The thing that annoys me about Linux (and recent versions of Winblows) is that one can't install, upgrade, repair, or optimize the OS correctly without knowing a shitload about computers. It also is fair to say that once can't install, upgrade, repair, or tune the drive train on an LDV without knowing a shitload about automotive technology. So why am I griping?!?
Computer tech is fairly able to pull itself up by its bootstraps as it matures. Automotive technology tends not to. Once can use the current generation of computer tech to make the next generation faster, cheaper, more reliable, more versatile, more effective and easier to use. In fact, it is fairly safe to say that one must use computers to develop newer, better computers. That is not true of LDVs (unless you claim that LDVs allow automotive workers, designers and engineers to get themselves and small items to the workplace...but that is a trivial case).
So where am I going with this? Well, how come nearly all Linux geeks seem to avoid the obvious when it comes to making their favorite OS more appealing to the masses? The sort of general purpose tasks most people use and maintain computers for are really fairly standardized, conceptually and even functionally. The first major problem for most multi-platform users is terminology. Way back before Linux was even a dream, one could get Unix shells that emulated DOS, the OS that the first significant generation of microcomputer users got to know "by heart". One of the reasons Macs never really comprised more than a tiny segment of the microcomputer market is that they worked differently from a user perspective. People who really got to know and like Macs rarely wanted to use PCs and vice versa. The problem for Apple is that there is nothing inherently special about a Mac that can't be done on more standard PCs. Guess what? There is little that most folks do on Linux boxes that can't be done on a Windows system.
I really want to see Microsoft blown out of the OS, office software, and Web browser marketplaces. That won't happen until one or more competitors assimilate the parts of the Windows interface that have become a standard and make it better. So far, Linux tends to be more powerful, but far less intuitive, less popular, less versatile, and more difficult for the typical user to work with. A big part of that is terminology. WTF is KDE? Gnome? A kernel? A distro?
Linux geeks have set themselves up as being elite because they know Linux. Feeling superior seems to be a major part of life for many of them. The problem is that most people do not want to become computer experts and expect their computers to do most of the work as far as being easy to use and maintain. Like it or not, MS Windows, Office, and (to a lesser extent) IE, have become what the majority of computer users expect and want to see...but they are fickle and almost certainly don't give a damn about things having the MS logo on them, as long as those things provide the familiar look and feel and can be discussed using the standard terminology. Just as Apple took some great ideas from Xerox ARC and ran with them, only to get stomped by Microsoft in turn, so can the Linux community assimilate the part of the computing experience that users like and expect f
I suppose you can define common workstation computers as general purpose machines, but since today's cars, light trucks, and SUVs (collectively known as Light Duty Vehicles) can all contain most common workstations (just add an inverter and pay attention to laws regarding driver distractions), while no common workstations contain LDVs (set theory alert!), one could argue that LDSs are a more general class of objects than small general purpose computers.
Nit picking aside, we use LDVs for getting from here to there in the civilized parts of the world and even the uncivilized parts if the vehicle has off-road capability. Once you start getting into specialized uses, the operation of LDVs can become complex quite rapidly. Ditto for workstations. The thing that annoys me about Linux (and recent versions of Winblows) is that one can't install, upgrade, repair, or optimize the OS correctly without knowing a shitload about computers. It also is fair to say that once can't install, upgrade, repair, or tune the drive train on an LDV without knowing a shitload about automotive technology. So why am I griping?!?
Computer tech is fairly able to pull itself up by its bootstraps as it matures. Automotive technology tends not to. Once can use the current generation of computer tech to make the next generation faster, cheaper, more reliable, more versatile, more effective and easier to use. In fact, it is fairly safe to say that one must use computers to develop newer, better computers. That is not true of LDVs (unless you claim that LDVs allow automotive workers, designers and engineers to get themselves and small items to the workplace...but that is a trivial case).
So where am I going with this? Well, how come nearly all Linux geeks seem to avoid the obvious when it comes to making their favorite OS more appealing to the masses? The sort of general purpose tasks most people use and maintain computers for are really fairly standardized, conceptually and even functionally. The first major problem for most multi-platform users is terminology. Way back before Linux was even a dream, one could get Unix shells that emulated DOS, the OS that the first significant generation of microcomputer users got to know "by heart". One of the reasons Macs never really comprised more than a tiny segment of the microcomputer market is that they worked differently from a user perspective. People who really got to know and like Macs rarely wanted to use PCs and vice versa. The problem for Apple is that there is nothing inherently special about a Mac that can't be done on more standard PCs. Guess what? There is little that most folks do on Linux boxes that can't be done on a Windows system.
I really want to see Microsoft blown out of the OS, office software, and Web browser marketplaces. That won't happen until one or more competitors assimilate the parts of the Windows interface that have become a standard and make it better. So far, Linux tends to be more powerful, but far less intuitive, less popular, less versatile, and more difficult for the typical user to work with. A big part of that is terminology. WTF is KDE? Gnome? A kernel? A distro?
Linux geeks have set themselves up as being elite because they know Linux. Feeling superior seems to be a major part of life for many of them. The problem is that most people do not want to become computer experts and expect their computers to do most of the work as far as being easy to use and maintain. Like it or not, MS Windows, Office, and (to a lesser extent) IE, have become what the majority of computer users expect and want to see...but they are fickle and almost certainly don't give a damn about things having the MS logo on them, as long as those things provide the familiar look and feel and can be discussed using the standard terminology. Just as Apple took some great ideas from Xerox ARC and ran with them, only to get stomped by Microsoft in turn, so can the Linux community assimilate the part of the computing experience that users like and expect
"You're young, you're drunk, you're in bed, you have knives; shit happens." -- Angelina Jolie