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Can Anyone Beat WoW?
Next Generation is running an article penned by DFC Intelligence Analyst David Cole, exploring the overwhelming popularity of World of Warcraft. Coles asks Is It Possible to Surpass World of Warcraft? He explores the reasons behind WoW's success, and what it means for the market as a whole. From the article: "All of these factors point towards one conclusion: World of Warcraft's success, admirable as it may be, will be extremely difficult to duplicate. This will be bad news for all the frothy investors who are suddenly discovering the MMOG business model. In the new DFC Intelligence Online Game Market report we forecast revenue in the MMOG market to grow over 150% from 2006 to 2011. However, this doesn't account for all the investment money that is likely to be lost chasing after that revenue growth."
to beat WoW is to cancel your account and start the arduous process of putting your life back together. Call the wife that left you and see if things can be worked out. Take your kids to a park and marvel at the sunshine - it's been a while since you've felt how warm it is. Apologize to all of those ex-coworkers that covered for you when you overslept from a late night raid or leveling. Look in the mirrow for the first time in months and decide you might need to shower and shave.
Yup, I beat my addiction to WoW. The day I pushed that cancel button was the day I was set free. So it is possible to beat WoW!
Space for rent, inquire within
is to just walk away.
Oh, they were talking about making a game to ensnare even more subscribers. Sorry.
More music, fewer hits
A quarter of the population of South Korea along would sign up. You'd get a minimum of 12 million subscribers and the return of Starcraft Breakfast Cereal.
No problem to beat WoW, but first I need to learn how to stop playing LineageII :-O
There will always be that one game that defines a genre. Doom was not the first FPS, but it was the FPS that made the genre a sensation. Command & Conquer did the same for RTS. WoW is just that defining game for MMORPGs; it built upon the pioneers and has reached that critical mass where MMOs stop being a niche genre and have become mainstream.
The question is: do we really want a single dominant game in any genre?
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
No, that's why they made a level cap.
All joking aside, WoW will not be beaten... in this generation. In any emergent industry based on non-commodity goods, the first player to hit mainstream success will be the benchmark that all others fail to meet. After the first product goes mainstream, competition increases and even an increasing market has too many players for any one to achieve the saturation of the first one.
Now, if the whole MMOG industry was to die down, it's quite possible that someone new could come in and create a renaissance where they could dominate a larger market than existed during the previous incarnation... like Nintendo did after the video game industry 'died' in the early 80s.
However, I don't think the MMOG industry is going anywhere anytime soon. It's natural outgrowth of the online socializing that today's youth has grown up with -- I expect more variety, but don't see any shrinkage for quite a long time.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
It will be incredibly difficult to reproduce the success of WOW for a number of reasons. The main being that WOW is incredibly accessible to gamers of all skill levels. Having played many different MMORPG's WOW was easily the easiest to pick up and run with. Other games have an incredibly steep learning curve and to the casual gamer are turned off. With WOW you can jump right in and get to doing quests without having to go through the tedium of starting off so weak you can't do anything. Additionally, Blizzard has been incredibly successful with almost every game they have released. I'm hard pressed to find a Blizzard title that wasn't both a commercial and critical success, with the exception of the long-anticipated, maybe to eventually be released Starcraft: Ghost. Additionally, from my experience WOW is the only MMORPG you can play for short periods at a time. If you have a half hour you can jump into WOW and actually accomplish something. Other games, they require large chunks of your life to achieve a modest level of success. I'm not saying that the other games are bad, because they are by no means, but they are not as accessible to the casual gamer as WOW is. WOW definately isn't perfect, what with the lack of overall storyline, but in terms of quick fun it beats the others hands down.
In about 2-5 years, WoW will start to fizzle out as people grow up and away from the game. As well, improvements in computer hardware, GPUs in particular, will start to make the cheesy character graphics that WoW uses seem old.
Games run their course. Blizzard has been really lax in adding new content, and fixing bugs. If they are going to average a major update once every 2 years, customers will start to leave for other games.
While it may be a long time before anyone beats the subscription numbers that WoW currently boasts, as more people get broadband and more people start having better systems, the MMO market can handle more people.
But it won't happen for a few years. As much as I am looking forward to Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, it won't challenge WoW for numbers. And nothing else in the works that has been talked about is really lighting any major fires. And even Eve's slow but steady growth will only go so far, as it's a game of Haves and Have Nots, and new players are mostly Nots.
Can't someone (possibly Blizzard) just do the same thing again, but in space, a la Starcraft? I don't know about others, but I for one greatly favour sci-fi over fantasy. Dammit Phantasy Star Universe, where are you?!?
Also, didn't anybody say the same thing about FFXI? I would guess that people will eventually get bored with WoW just like they did with FFXI and look for the next big thing.
The only thing I can see beating WoW in terms of MMO Competition is if a number other high-quality games enter the market and drop their price point and subscription fees. It's really Blizzard's to lose. If they release a string of bad patches, quit putting out expansions, the like, and people hit 60 (or 70) and lose interest, they'll flock to Eve, Lineage, Guild Wars, CoH, and others.
Then buy in at the IPO level.
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
Since most players are unwilling to play more than one MMO on a regular basis, the trick is to entice players to leave WoW and play your game. The trick is to find the "hook" necessary to do just that. I would propose to offer a contest to give away free lifetime accounts to a significant number of people. By doing this, you can get an initial playerbase that can entice their friends to come to the new game. One of the biggest draws to MMOs (for me at least, although I'm not a WoW player) is the social environment from playing games with friends (whether in real-life, or just in-game).
Of course, the game does need to be worth playing in order to entice anyone away from another MMO
My opinion is that World of Warcraft's popularity is due to its original base in the hugely popular Warcraft series of games. Without that, it would be just another EQ clone like the rest of the games. For 3 million people, the name Warcraft introduced them to the MMORPG, something a new title like Everquest or Dark Age of Camelot wouldn't do. Would Spiderman the movie have been nearly as popular if it was called "Webman" and was loosely based off of Spider-man? I'd say not.
Star Wars Galaxies could have done it but they were too busy reinventing the game every 4 months.
StarGate can do it if it's done right. They have the brand name. They just got to remember this is a MMORPG and there needs to be more than one way to succeed in the game. If they can break this cycle that you have to always fight something to advance they'll win over big. That's what Star Wars had. Docs, dancers, musicians, and artisans could do what they liked doing and succeed.
Believe it or not some people just liked standing around chatting.
For instance the MMO that gives acceptable rewards for soloing sees a good deal of its playerbase at max level relatively quickly. This impacts the long-standing belief touted by casual gamers (the main audience of WoW) that the journey is the fun part, and the end game item hoarding and raiding is boring. Also it leverages the HUGE userbase that followed Bliz from all their previous games. Generally, players want new content, new classes, new races, etc. instead of just a 3d version of the 2d FPS games. Lastly, the graphics of WoW are nothing wonderful. Contrary to new games touting "life-like graphics", where one needs to buy at least 300 bucks of gpu to play on high settings, WoW's graphics look cartoony, which allows them to put more focus on design and content more than the 795,945th pixel on the jewel in the pommell of the....
My dissapointment in the direction recent games are taking comes from the formula game studios are learning to take to produce something "new". Take 1 of the following: a game of the year, a series game, a movie, a cult-classic that fans want brought back. Throw a design team together that has proven success doing nothing innovative. Come up with 1 feature that's not really new to throw to the masses as "innovation". Produce it as quickly and cheaply as possible, creating a fluffy nothing that will be beaten quickly and get the consumers ready for the next game at another $50. Hype it everywhere, and only show pre-rendered videos of it so that people who don't know better will believe that the gameplay is open-ended and gorgeous. Profit. Rinse, and repeat.
The only good news in the gaming industry for a while was Vanguard, but thats so far a dissapointment, and the Wii (which is truely innovative). Nintendo, do you want my bank account numbers so we can do direct deposit to you?
"Reality continues to ruin my life" - Calvin and Hobbes
WoW will be beat, but not by something that does what it does better. Instead it will be bested by something everyone hasn't seen before. I'm not talking about a new type of game, but some kind of evolution of the MMOG that someone is probably working on right now. That said, WoW is probably the ultimate within the MMOG model as it currently exists, but nothing lasts forever . . .
..at all the time I wasted playing WoW brings a tear to my eye. I neglected my loving wife, my friends, I would occasionally skip work, school, or other activities just so i could 'raid.' That's the worst part about that game. It hooks you with the ease of leveling and the fact that you CAN level on your own. You don't need to be in a giant group to gain experience (a la FFXI).. The questing system is intuitive and enjoyable, the storyline is great wether you played the original Warcraft installments or not.
The game was successful because everyone wanted a 'casual friendly' game to play - and that's exactly what it *WAS*. But once everyone reached 60 and the developers lollygagged their way to the first expansion (after what? 2 years? 3? I can't even remember how long the game has been out thanks to being locked in a cold room full of empty coke bottles and a broken '2' key for Sinister Striking!)
Once you hit that top level and started raiding, it became a horrible addiction. The only way to see real character advancement is through new gear, and the GOOD STUFF (as all crack heads want!) is only available via raiding A LOT. I went from a happy casual player to a 5 day a week 'second full time job' player.
I don't think another game will have that much success anytime soon - im sure it's possible.. but I also think that the hayday of WoW is going to slowly come to an end. I don't know if their numbers are still going up or not, but im sure as more and more new games will be released that will slowly steal games from WoW... Blizzard might try to hold onto the throne with World of Starcraft or World of Diablo or basically just rehashing WoW with one of their other brands to keep it 'fresh', but eventually even they will bow down eventually.
Besides... WoW is in a whole new 'era' of gaming IMO. 20 years ago a fun game was playing cards after dinner with your parents (maybe a few more years than 20...whatever) The point is that as technology continues to develop and becomes accepted, more and more people jump 'on the wagon', and thats just part of what the gaming community is seeing today. Is it that WoW just happened to be 'the right game at the right time', or will it be looked at years from now as 'one of the first good games in the 'Gamers-Generation.' (I know that sounds a bit silly but hopefully you understand my point.)
Disclaimer: I fall upon my rights as an american to post this message without using spellcheck. Thanks!
Its Deluxe, son. Deluxe!
Weren't people asking this about EQ a few years ago?
First off, this article seems to have been written by someone who played two MMO's: Everquest and WoW. Most of the "revolutionary" features of WoW were present in other MMO's (instances, battlegrounds, solo centered play) previous to WoW's existence. Some were done worse, but I'd bet some were done better as well. While WoW is an international success, in my opinion, it's an average MMO. I've played my share of the genre and beta'd a few that never made it as well, and I found WoW to be technically sound but overall pretty sterile. I was bored enough to cancel pretty quickly and even tried to return with some friends thinking that would help, but alas it was not meant to be. If it works for you, that's cool, but I disagree with anyone that calls it the be all end all of MMO's. It's not THAT great.
What I do like about WoW is the quality, it seems minimally buggy in comparison to most MMO's (except for the Blizzard servers after release). This is so important and it's a problem in so many of the games in this genre.
If another MMO comes out with the same quality control and a well known license attached, you'll see a split in the user base. The casual players will stick around mostly (as will some of the hardcore fanboys) but a new challenge is something an MMO addict can't pass up.
"I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability."-Oscar Wilde
I'm convinced that a lot of WoW's appeal is the color and graphics style. There are many other MMOs out at the moment but most of them have graphics more seated in reality. Unfortunately, it seems that many game artists are not capable of working with earth tones very well and most of the graphics end up washed out and grey. EQ2 is a prime example of graphics-gone-wrong. EQ2 had a lot going for it, actually... the crafting system was pretty damn innovative and was a throwback to UO (post-T2A) where your skill directly impacted the quality of your goods. You couldn't get away with a blacksmithing mule without putting a lot of effort into it. Contrast that skill and time-based system to WoW's crafting system where any dumbass that gets 300 Alchemy can transmute Arcanite every 2 days just as well as you can. A lot of other games tend to have similar graphics problems (Note: part of this is hardware limitations. With a more cartoon graphics style, you can get away with a limited number of polygons and colors. Realistic graphics need heavy shading and heavy textures to make it look good.)
I think for a game to beat WoW they will have to trump graphics and remain simple. Let the casual user have an easy game but make it complex enough for those that want complexity. WoW has done this fairly well. Anyone can get to 60, but a true game fan can find and adventure for specific equipment items and specific stats. A fanatic fan can break the game down into math and figure out exactly how much his DPS (damage per second) would increase if he got a certain item or certain enchant. But you don't have to do that.
Customization is a big (HUGE) key that WoW has completely missed. You cannot create a community in WoW beyond a guild. Again going back to UO.. that was a great feature, albiet implemented very poorly at times and the implementation/security of it varied greatly every content update. If you wanted to, you and some friends could build a small town out of user-purchased homes, complete with NPC vendors that you controlled. Second Life has huge customization features but is lacking graphics, intuitive UI, and just doesn't have the appeal that most games do.
The conversation usually goes like this...
Gamer 1: Hey, you gotta try this new game with us, everybody is doing it.
Gamer 2: Nah, I heard it will wreck your life.
Gamer 1: C'mon, just this once... you'll love it. Nothing bad can happen.
Gamer 2: Oh, OK... Just this once.
Later that day Gamer 2 steals Grandma's credit card for the monthly fees...
Until other games can be engaging enough to inspire that kind of behavior from the regular players they won't touch WoW.
Homer: Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true!
All of these factors point towards one conclusion: World of Warcraft's success, admirable as it may be, will be extremely difficult to duplicate.
In five years does anyone doubt that most people will be playing a game with better graphics than WoW, even if it is WoW II? The social component of MMORPGs makes it more likely, not less that gamers will flock to one particular game among the offerings they have. The question then becomes, how do I make my offering the next king kong of MMORPGs?
Gameplay is one key. It has to be fun and it has to be addictive in order to build and maintain sufficient body count. Accessibility is another key. It needs to run on Macs and PCs and ideally on Linux. You can't afford to exclude 5% of the market, because that 5% will contain some of the hub people that will draw in others. If 1 person can't play a game, 20 might stay on a game their friend can play too. Those 20, make up some of the mass needed to be a blockbuster. The barrier to entry cannot be too high. Initial cost cannot lockout the bottom half of the market, and it has to run on the average machine, not just top of the line. A free trial is a big plus as it gives people a free way to get hooked, just like crack.
Aside from graphics, and more refined gameplay, there are a lot of things a new MMORPG can bring to the table. One is more diversity and another is standardization. This may seem contradictory, but hear me out. If a company puts out a game that works with open standard modules, then multiple companies can create and sell those modules for it. Buy access to different fantasy settings, cyberpunk, world war 2, etc. This allows for the maximum diversity of gameplay with the minimum barrier to entry. Since it would almost certainly rely upon one or more standard gaming engines, it would also remove a lot of the work that goes into building one from scratch.
I've advocated this as an open source project, but have not heard many people enthusiastic about it. It is, however, a perfect fit for the OSS business model since content and the service are not tied to the code and are what people are willing to pay for. I think if someone creates the Apache of MMORPG engines, they will be a rich person with a huge reputation that will allow them to cherry pick work from then on.
Open Source or not, however, a single, service or game is almost certain to be a magnet to gamers, like WoW is today. It is part of the nature of the social network, which is a huge component of MMORPGs today.
/me casts Improved Zerg Rush
:)
"You have insufficient creep to cast that now."
5 Elite Protoss Zealots unstealth and gank you.
"LFG 3M marines, 1M medic"
Or seeing a cloud of Carriers or Mutalisks come screaming over the horizon, hell-bent on laying waste to your camp.
"We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - Major Mike Shearer, UK
like WoW does. If you had said Warcraft 5 years ago, how many people would know what you were talking about? Lots. They already had the brand recognition and that sold a lot of copies for them right there. I think the next big MMO you'll see will also be built off of another franchise game (and NOT starcraft!). DDO's only real attribute is because it has D&D in the name. That sold it to a lot of people right off the bat, even though it is just enough D&D to be confusing to newcomers and not enough for a lot of fans of D&D to like playing it. Most of the other MMO's you see out there don't have that recognition (puzzle pirates, eve, guild wars, etc.) and an MMO is a hard place to build brand recognition these days.
Watch for a big name title to go MMO...
What was the jingle, "It's like there's a Zerg rush in my mouth, and everyone's invited"?
I've found that the only ones that can truly destroy an MMO are the designers of the actual game.
I played City of Heroes for well over a year. I enjoyed it. I loved beating up supervillians, and flying around in a city, and discovering all the backstory to the world. But the near constant tweakings to the powersets were annoying, especially since I played one of the most debated (Regen Scrapper, if that means anything to you). The lack of anything else to do besides combat was a factor as well.
I stopped playing due to those factors, and that I replaced my PC with a Mac. I eventually picked up WoW and I can see the seeds brewing of WoW's potential failure. Raids, especially 40 man raids, are boring and often a waste of time. PvP is a joke, since it's mostly farming a battleground instead of an instance, along with rank decay. The differences between races are mostly aesthetic, barring the races with actual useful racial abilities (Forsaken, Humans, Gnomes, Tauren).
From what I've seen of the expansion though, they might actually be listening to the player base. Raids will be smaller, thus easier to form, and have more destinations, making the endgame more than a repeated slog through MC. Racial class abilities akin to the Priest spells for all classes will help with the diversiveness of builds, along with the extra talent points and tiers. PvP system getting tweaks, mainly that your rank won't go down once a week. And of course, lots of new content.
If you want to surpass WoW, first you need to do everything right that they did, and then do what they did wrong correctly. That relies on there being more wrongs than rights though.
Yes it's possible to "beat" WoW, but only until Blizz adds a new dungeon.
If you're in a good guild it's possible to get the best (within reason) gear in the game (or that your guild can attain) for your class after a few months of solid raiding. This is the point at which people usually reduce their play time or start another character and do it all over again.
I know that that game still has several hundred people per server on a daily basis. Also, when WoW turns 20, then we'll talk.
Cliff Claven
K.E.G. Party Chairman
Founding Leader of: Koncerned for Egalitarin Governance
End guy was hard.
VR Sims like Dream Park, followed by chipheads. BTL, anyone?
I played everquest for years. If it weren't for mismanagement of Everquest we would be shaking our heads and wondering how a single MMORPG could dominate the market for 6 years. However, the gorilla on the block since 2005 is now WOW though I suspect it is starting to suffer the same problems. I hope sanity returns and they avoid EQ's fate.
The reasons I left EQ (and why WoW may not avoid these problems) were...
1. The game was so hard you cannot meaningfully accomplish things solo once you're high (e.g. 60th+ level). As a casual player who does not spend a long time online in one session I spent a large percentage of my time looking for a group. I even arranged a second subscription so that I would have two characters whilst I was soloing. Wow was therefore more accessible because you can solo meaningfully and it also halved my subscription costs. However, both systems are designed so that the greatest rewards are only achievable by massive multiplayer effort. and at that point, all the players who have real lives drop out.
2. Very few pieces of software are perfect, with a MMORPG this sometimes requires human intervention. The customer support at SOE was appalling. GMs sometimes abused their powers and if you had a problem you sometimes had to wait days for resolution. WoW support used to be fairly good and prompt, but I've noticed a drop in quality over the months.
Over time, it looks like the WoW software has got more buggy to the point where I suspect EQ has the upper hand now. If you've got 40 people who spend hours trying to achieve a goal and all wipe because of lag (for example) then they're going to be fed up.
3. Even though the area to explore was huge, (and I'd explored for almost 4 years), I had only visited maybe 50% of the regions that were available. A lot of the new regions required quarterly expansions costing about $45. Every time an expansion comes out you are reminded that you're paying a subscription AND you're being asked to pay for the expansion. Blizzard had been very good at improving WoW for the standard subscription and I dont begrudge them an expansion every 18 months or to, but Sony's 3 monthly expansions to add broken content drive people away.
4. It became obvious that some mechanisms in EQ were overt time sinks (e.g. some people waited days for certain creatures to appear), now, obviously, the whole idea of a game is to be an entertaining time sink, but you're supposed to be enjoying yourself whilst doing it. WoW has a few irritating time wasters, such as flight paths but generally its a lot better.
So in summary, Sony destroyed Everquest's dominance of the MMORPG market by offering poor support for buggy software and charging lots of money for it whilst only a few hardcore players got bragging rights over their leet characters (at the cost of family, jobs and sleep). I can see a few faint shadows of this disease on WoW, and hope it won't get worse.
If someone wants to make a killer MMORPG then listen to the majority of players, not the vocal hardcore. Allow people to stop and attend to real life. Listen to them when they've got a problem and fix it as a priority before working on something shiny, new and broken. Let them play the game as fast or as slow as they like, so they can socialise or be a tourist. I'd love to play a casual wow-type game in the Everquest world, there were so many cool areas, monsters and quests that I miss.
-- Don't believe everything you read, hear or think
I thought you were going to tell us how to beat the game. What a diappointment!
MMORPG; like someone stated, Blizzard is really good with the games they release, and I do remember when Diablo 2 was a big hit. It's sizzled down a bit but is still popular, but is no longer mainstream. I've heard before that there is no plans for D3, but I still think if they put the time and $ into development, they could be able to continue the storyline somehow. I personally am keeping away from WOW, but keep myself updated.
You don't got a thing if you don't have that ping.
I think WoW was good for one thing. It got people who never heard of MMO's, or people who were afraid to try the more hardcore MMO's to "get their feet wet".
It's not necessarily something that future MMO's should draw from. Of course there will be WoW clones, but I think all of the companies will benefit from the success of WoW.
You'll see people start with WoW and find that they need more depth and challenge. Games like FFXI, Everquest, and the soon to come Vanguard will all benefit from the influx of gamers into the genre.
I don't think WoW will be "beaten". It will co-exist with all the other MMO's, and everyone will benefit from WoW's ability to attract the casual gamer.
Before WoW I had played EQ, DAoC, M59, etc.... some needed "skill" where as WoW I have friends who never had played a MMORPG before and were level 60 in less than 3 weeks and only playing a handful of hours.
Age of conan will, this is the next generation in MMORPG's. all of its elements are next generation. WOW was fun but its time is coming to an end.
Ifsomeone were to combine a WoW type game, myspace, and youtube, it could surpass WoW in success.
Warhammer Online is out next year. It may just be able to topple WoW....
is to, oops, got to go. Raid.
thxbye
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
After hours of play and interacting with all the NPCs in the game I got to the final level and defeated the final boss Lord British. He has a huge amount of health and it took all my skills to finally take him down. Make sure you sit through the entire credits for a final cut scene at the end!!
The problem with WoW is that after a month or so, it becomes pretty much a "been there, done that" situation. Sure there are "new" areas one gains access to and "new" artifacts to raid for, but they're all just variations on a (by then very familiar) theme.
A MMOG that provides continuously new paradigms for success as the player advances would mop the floor with WoW.
The Legend of Mir 3 has already surpassed World of Warcraft. Other games exist as well, such as Yulyang. The market style is different, but nevertheless profitable.
Hoist Number One and Number Six.
i finally gave it up - and set up a website about giving it up - www.wowl.co.nr register on the forums and talk about your addiction or how you gave up. =D
Once you hit 60 and get equipment of an appropriate level -- I had a set of mana regen gear for my priest, and a set of "max mana pool" that put me at 9.4k mana before any buffs -- you will quickly find that all you loved about WoW has died. (This is why I sold my priest after 3 months of playing the game). At this point (Bear in mind that I quit maybe 6-7 months after launch) your choices are:
:)
1) raid for 4-8 hours...yes, this gets better as your guild does, and my RL friends that still play can run MC in a little under 3 now...but that's still an afternoon.
2) Wait in line to PvP, then PvP for an hour or more to farm honor. At the time I played, AV was the best honor farming, and noone actually tried to win until every drop of honor had been farmed from opposing players. After hitting rank 5 or so, I got very bored of the tedium, especially since I had specced to holy for raid healing.
3) Craft. Of course, the raw materials are a better time investment, so all I used alchemy for was to transmute things. I sold herbs raw on auction. When I quit I had almost 1k gold I didn't need because I picked flowers while I waited to PvP.
All in all, I was pretty disappointed in WoW, but the one redeeming quality it had was that I was able to sell my character at a profit.
DS
I was really addicted from December 2004 till around March 2006. I even introduced my wife to WoW. She met someone on there and left me and now is with him or something lol. But now I am playing wow again just not wasting all my life away with it. I still think it is a really fun game.
Took a while, but I finally beat every boss in every instance, including Naxx.
SO, yeah, it is POSSIBLE to beat WoW...
You just have to dedicated 25 - 45 minutes a day of your life.
Modesty is one of life's greatest attributes
1) I really think that WoW just hit the market at exactly the right time where the competition was so thin and since they offered a grea product, they have seen the record subscriber numbers follow. EQ was losing steam. UO was losing steam. Asheron's Call was starting to fall apart balance wise between the classes. AC2 - a total and complete failure. Shadowbane? Too many early server problems to keep people interested. Not only did they provide a very easy to play title, they offered generally decent content with decent enough balance.
2) Once a community like WoW builds, it's hard to dismantle it. Take for instance a game I played for almost 4 years - Asheron's Call (boy would I love to have that time back now). If I take a look at my IM list, I have over 100 people still from AC that I talk to randomly. Two of my better "friends" who I talk to daily I have never met in person but through AC. The social community and the subsequent break-up is hard to lose for some players (i.e. me) and you constantly fall back into the community where "everybody knows your name". With such a huge and tight community, I forsee it taking a very long time before WoW is overtaken by another game in the MMORPG genre any time soon.
Hagrin.com
My mother almost beat it... MoM really turned WoW upside down..
Let's look at this rationally, Wow isn't just a great game it's a phenomonial game. Just like EverQuest wasn't a great game it was a phenomonial game when it first came out. It's like Super Mario Brothers 3, best selling game ever. But is it beatable?
Well to beat WoW you need to approach it the same way. Take a well built world that has been seen in multiple games that everyone knows and loves, something like Mario or Zelda (note Final Fantasy doesn't have the same world so it doesn't work the same way) Make it identifiable but playable, allow the players to play any of the major races, Invent a couple new ones and you should have WoW.
The problem is no one has a game that was as popular as Warcraft available for this quite yet. And those that do arn't willing to go to MMORPG. Mario and Zelda will never be MMORPG if there's a god in heaven. Stuff like Command and Conquer doesn't have the races to go along. GAmes like Final Fantasy doesn't have a viable world.
The problem really comes in when games try to be so different it hurts. Star wars galaxies anyone? If there was a game world that could be better than WoW it would be Star wars, but there's not enough developer items. LOTR is coming soon but isn't sounding like a strong contender. Star trek could work, Ender's game would be fun but too obscure.
The problem is for something like WoW you need to have Devs who've created successful games in the world, interest in going into MMORPG, and the patience and money to really create solid beta, Just paying a company money to make a MMORPG won't work because they might not work with the source material, they might not have enough time, they might just not understand the material (Scarface? The main character is going to get up from the ending, so the whole moral is gone and it's a stupid run and gun). WoW will be beaten, but probably not for another 4-5 years. But that's ok. That's actually the way MMORPGS work. They have very long life times but it also takes a long time to create a successful one.
I personally think that the world of Shadowrun could come close and compete with WoW because of it's blend of fantasy and cyberpunk. The two big limiting factors on Shadowrun are A) Microsoft holds the IP license and B) there isn't enough hardware power to populate an entire city for thousands of players to run around in at the same time. But in terms of the content possibility (criminals vs cops, the lower class vs the evil corporations, magic, matrix, etc), you can't really beat the potential of the Shadowrun universe. You can have soloing in the world, then you can have instances as runs against corporations. Most importantly, the Shadowrun universe doesn't lend itself to the gear grind like WoW does. The playing field remains pretty level throughout the character advancement process. You don't gain more hitpoints and mana as you advance. It just becomes less likely that you will lose them as quickly. One of the big limiting factors I see to doing Shadowrun "right" would be the adult oriented nature of the game. I'm not sure how many parents who fork over $15 a month for Johnny to fight orcs and trolls are going to be happy with Johnny running drugs for the mob and killing the family of corporate whistleblowers.
I do not know if it is feasible, but think of a serverless peering system that has transact-sql
transfers like banks use to reduce chances of hacking.
A built in network analyzer that groups ppl in low latency groups in perspective to their
ISP peering, but have the ability to manually select as well.
Some sort of reward for ppl that have the most uptime on their box as well.
A master server for validation would be needed, but if the bulk of the game is hosted
by the players with good connections it would reduce the bandwidth bill dramatically
and provide regional/continent/locale based hosting.
Redundancy built into the peering as ppl join and drop off, and network profile histories
could estimate availability.
Will anyone try this radical approach? Is it feasible?
I have no clue...
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
WoW's addiction is easy to overcome. I play it every summer and quit in the fall when I go back to college. I guess my willpower is strong because I never had a problem quitting.
Honestly, once you hit 60 and experience everything its too repetitive for my tastes.
I had a 60 priest, rogue, and paly (rogue to 60, paly to 42 first summer.. priest to 60 and paly to 60 2nd summer.. and a 30 warlock).
But you know what? The game is amazingly boring. Why do I do it? Because I see my girlfriend every morning/afternoon.. I go to work around 4.. come home around 9 or 10 and I play WoW until 4am. I occasionally get drunk after work but I still play WoW after. But whats the point?
You get good gear from end game instances once you hit 60.
Then you get slightly better gear from raiding. I say slightly better because as a priest my end game instancing gear was pretty decent (not devout) and I had no problem healing MC, AQ20, ZQ, BWL, AQ40. Get even more upgrades like prophecy, benediction, and some good blues like wandering nomad boots or something.. decent rings.. trinkets.. etc.. but wait. I spent all this time to gain 20 mana per 5 seconds and +100 healing? Yes, this an upgrade and arguably awesome, but it's not worth the time and to spend so much time for something so little and pointless (I'm talking about in real life terms.. not in WoW) that I can't do it to myself anymore. Also, raiding the same stuff over and over again gets so boring after a while.
I will bend like a reed in the wind.
http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/home/index. php
A long, long time ago in the world of MMO's there was a man Named Brad McQuaid. Mr. McQuaid was in charge of a little project called Everquest, some of you might have heard of it. Well, Brad left Everquest and formed his own company, Sigil Games, to start a new project. Vanguard: Saga of Heroes ( http://www.vanguardsoh.com/ or http://www.joinvanguard.com/ ) I suggest the first link. This game has been in development for several years now and is slated to come out this winter. Will it beat WoW? I don't know, maybe not in subscriptions, but I can almost guarantee it will be it in terms of artistic quality, content depth, character development, story line, and almost every other worthy category out there. To me, and this is only one man's opinion, I don't think there is another MMO currently, or in the near future that will be able to touch Vanguard in the categories I described above... Take a look at the sites I provided and see for yourself
employed by crack dealers. give the first bit away for free to the kids and let them get all their friends hooked.
sarcasm:
-noun
1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
However, these Chinese users are not subscribers in the Western sense of the word: they do not pay a recurring monthly fee. In fact, they generate about 0.36 yuan per hour of gameplay; that's about 4 cents an hour. Of course, Chinese users log a lot of hours. In the second quarter of 2006, World of Warcraft generated $32 million. Can anyone explain how the Chinese users generate recurring revenue for Blizzard if they're not paying a monthly fee? Is this through website ads or something?
what's the korean word for "easy"?
sarcasm:
-noun
1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
When we speak of "beating" WoW, what are we referring to really?
Are we saying that to "beat" WoW someone needs to:
o make as much money?
o have as many subscribers?
o have better content?
o have better graphics?
o have better gameplay?
o have better combat?
o have a more mature following?
o a better storyline?
o better quests?
o better classes?
o better equipment?
o better character creation?
There are way too many variables when even trying to consider how you
could say you have beat WoW. In my experience, having the most subscribers
does not necessarily mean that you have the best game. Yes, WoW has by far
the biggest subscriber base, but that does not mean it's the best game out
there right now. It also doesn't mean that it will continue to be the best
game out there, if you actually say that it is the best game out right now.
WoW took the best (or the most widely used) concepts from MMORPG's and threw
them all into the stew. They made sure those concepts (gameplay, etc..) were
easy enough that a 5-year old could manage them. That's why they have had
such an influx of subscribers. People are getting their kids, wives, aunts,
uncles, mothers, fathers, etc.. to play this game because it's so damned easy
to play. That does _not_ mean it's the best game out there.
Looking at some new games coming down the pipe, Age of Conan looks to me to
have a very bright future indeed. The mechanics, combat, mounted combat, and
tons of new things that WoW will never bring to the table are going to make this
game pass WoW by leaps and bounds. Does that mean that they will have more
subscribers than WoW? Probably not. But, that does not mean for one little
second that WoW is a better game.
There are tons of games out there now that have better graphics, better combat,
better quests, better character creation, etc..
In my eyes, World of Warcraft is not the best game out there. Not even close to it.
-sorrow
I wonder if people who have maxed out for a while should be offered a chance to be integrated into the game. Imgaine if Blizzard offered players who were lvl60 for a while a chance to become part of a quest. For instance they could become a guardian of an area, get a unqiue artifact, and basically have to defend an area against raiders. They could control monsters, etc but would be limited to staying in the quest area. They would be "legendary". If the player got sick of this the character would be given some AI and made a perm part of the game framework and the player would have to play another character.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
UO - Released on September 30, 1997, by Origin Systems.
EQ - EverQuest (EQ) is a 3D fantasy massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) that was released on March 16, 1999
I will not have your revisionist history. UO pioneered the genre.
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
Since the release of WoW, I've played nearly everyday. I started my own guild, and we grew to be one of the top on our server. I've cancelled my account for the time being so that I can complete my last semester of college. Maybe once I've found a job I'll buy the expansion and enable my account again.
You work up to 60 and most everything up to there is new or fun and interesting. Then you hit 60 and what? Find out that that two months you put in hardcore won't even touch what you need to do to be 'at the top'. Now it requires rep or raiding or PvP until people you know are concerned enough to talk about interventions with you.
Not to mention that once people learn the ultimate rule they won't have near the interest. And that is he with the most time will do the best. Not skill, not talent, and sure as hell not strategy, but simple time. And in what they think will make their money for them over time, is what will lead to its demise. I'm sure some would level more characters if they could get them to a decent status, but when you have to spend months and months of non-casual gaming (PvP up to 300k honor for the week, or Raiding 3-6 nights for 4 hours each), all of your fan base with a life, families, or jobs will all have to walk away. Because you just can't compete with 13 year-olds that don't have to work and have no responsibility.
- Kal`Goblez
Quit official and play on private L2 servers. Full C4, multiple rates, no farmers, unique stacking skills systems, (e.g. SR/SWS at the same time), far more balanced, and it's free. It's a lot more fun than retail. Plus the quick trip to end game will make you get bored of the game a lot faster.
Another victory like this, and you'll be done with.
Man is a slave because freedom is difficult, whereas slavery is easy.
It's simple. Release World of Starcraft. Starcraft still has people playing. The only reason why WoW did really good is because Warcraft has the same cult following. A World of Starcraft would beat WoW because Starcraft is way better then Warcraft.
\
Money spent on the development of a game that flops is not lost.
It is in the pockets of hard-working developers, artists, musicians, etc.
I know, I know, from the investor's perspective it is lost because they gave it to all these people and didn't make any of it back. And it is of course fair and reasonable for them to expect to make it back and then some, because that's how our economy works. I aced every econ class I took, so I know all about it.
I am just pointing out that the money isn't going into some extra-planar void or something. It is going to workers who need it to make a living, and this is a good thing.
Grand Theft Auto could easily beat it, I would think, with a pay-for-play online mode. Imagine running businesses, fighting different gangs, becoming a police officer/paramedic/taxi driver/fire fighter/etc, buying and selling real-estate; the list could go on forever. Sure, they'd have to figure out how to make it so you couldn't get all your stuff robbed in two seconds, but if they managed a game like this it would definitely beat WoW.
Too bad R*North hasn't shown any signs of taking the game in that direction.
WoW is so successful in part, because it brought non MMRPG players that were loyal Blizzard followers into the MM world. Eventually, it too will be old hat, and more and more people will find that they have done most of what is there to be done, while at the same time, someone else offers as complete an implementation as Blizzard has done. No One Lives Forever. Where's UO now? Where's EQ now? Keep in mind too, that because many of them, are new players in the MMRPG space, they have not left a game to play another... but it will happen. The real problem is that WoW represents a significant risk to any developers trying to do better. So it might be a while before magic happens again. :(
1. Am i a person with a potential gaming addiction?
2. Will this affect my life, girlfriend and job?
3. Is this really such a good idea?
I didn't sign up.
I have a propensity to play games too much, and i know it. Basically people, spend a bit of time being honest with yourself. If you also have an addictive personality, don't expose yourself to such an easy drug. Prevention is a hell of a lot easier than cure, and i'll bet most people with a current addiction knew before they signed up that they'd develop it. I have sympathy, but some problems in life can be avoided with a little more thought and a little less denial. This is one of them.
There was a recent /. article talking about how men log on MMORPGs as women players, especially to get preferential treatment (such as gifts, help, etc.).
Trust no identity whose face you don't see on a live cam. And not even all of those...
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
they could put out almost the exact same game from the user perspective, but keep the servers running and reduce lag and "this world is full" issues.
QoS. It's the new Bubble-Hearth.
MORTAR COMBAT!
It's little more than Everquest without the bugs.
That's actually quiet an accomplishment, but6.5 million players is not even 10% of the market.
There are offline games with much stiffer competion and better numbers.
I'll be surprised if we don't see a game with 20-30 million subscribers in the next 5-10 years.
What will that game be like? Here are some of my predicitons;
There won't be any limit to the number of players on a server.
The PvE "no profanity" server will be the most popular, but the media will talk about the PvP "adult" server as if it were the only one that existed.
The suspicion will exist that the company running that game is selling the majority of the gold, but actually, they won't be.
-- Should you believe authority without question?
WoW players are largely made up of Blizzard fan boys. Blizzard as always did their homework and know their core audience well. They studied the existing MMOs and made a version that would fit the tast of their existing customers. While its a bloody good job and all that, the answer is yes. But not by copying. You will have to find a common ground of those that are not impressed by WoW, and build a customer base from that. Will have to be a long term strategy though. Blizzard didnt happen overnight as some seem to think.
If Nintendo is smart they are working on Pokemon Online. Weather it be on the Wii or for the PC, Pokemon is from the ground up designed to be a social game of massive proportions. The premise of the games themselves lend to a "beatable" MMO that people won't actually want to quit upon beating it as well as the potential for offering people a casual game that doesnt take forever but provides the endless addictive fun gameplay.
I honestly think this is where they need to go with Pokemon next to keep the games interesting. Hopefully they'll go for a fullfledged MMO and not try to make it in an animal crossing style where you can only have a small handful of people in your town at once.
Gotta catch em all and trade em all after all.
I mean, I know a lot of people who just recently stopped playing WoW and we all know why. It's boring as hell. You don't realize it at first, but then one day you'll be out in the middle of nowhere killing spiders for 3 hours when it dawns on you, "Whoa! I could be doing something fun instead of trying to get to level 60 to impress people on the internet!" Really, good graphics + non-repetitive + a good chat system = profit. And yes, I know making a non-repetitive MMO isn't as easy as making a repetitive one, but if someone wants to beat WoW, that's what they have to do.
Before I go on, you owe me One Billion Dollars US if you implement this:
SIM Universe Online
Planets, solar systems, star travel, aliens, so on.
WoW would be a tiny corner in it on some back-water planet...
Now go forth and make it so.
However, these Chinese users are not subscribers in the Western sense of the word: they do not pay a recurring monthly fee.
What we know for sure is that World of Warcraft has had one million North American subscribers and one million European subscribers for a total of over two million Western subscribers.
Am I the only one who RTFA and noticed this important fact?
A muck with a direct neural interface. It will come complete with an IV drip and a security webcam.
Gah!
I would suggest that subscription numbers disagree with your conclusion. At, what, 6...6.5 million subscribers currently, it pretty much means EQ is now only a pre-cursor to the true, defining game of this genre: World of Warcraft.
:)
By this argument, Halo is the game that defined the FPS genre. I think a lot of people would disagree that the highest user base doesn't always define the "best" representation of a genre.
Even if WoW does, in this case.
Sorry. I was up late, grinding in the Burning Steppes, last night.
I know that addicts can't conceive that everyone doesn't share their addiction, but it's true. Gambling and drinking are two good examples. Most people never get addicted to those things, and indeed just aren't wired in such a way that they will. They do them both when they want to, but they have no need to do them all the time. To an alcoholic, I'm sure it's hard to understand how it feels to not NEED to have another drink, but most people just don't.
Well, same deal with WoW. There's plenty of people who play just for fun, and play on their own terms. I have a coworker who just now, after like 2 years of play, got his first level 60 character. HE just doesn't have time to play a whole lot, has a family and all and that takes priority.
Even those of us that do play a lot aren't addicts simply because we do. Personally, I'm evaluating what I want to do in WoW. I enjoy raiding, but it's getting a little old. I'm trying to decide if I want to switch back over to a PvP server, or maybe just cancel my account and play other games. I don't feel any "need" to play WoW or meet some artificial goal, it's simply what I choose to spend a fair amount of my free time on because it entertains me. I suppose I could spend it watching TV, or knitting, or in a bar, or any of the other more "acceptable" activities but I like games so that's what I'll spend my time on. At this point, WoW is the one that gives me the most entertainment, though as I said, it's growing long in the tooth.
So if you find yourself addicted to a game, unable to quit, having it interfere with your life, then that's not a good thing, but don't project that on to all others. There's plenty of us that can just play for fun, and leave when it's not any longer. WoW is my 4th MMORPG to date. It has lasted much longer than any others (9 months was the prior record with DAoC) but I doubt it'll last till next year. It doesn't force you to play it, you force yourself to play it.
When we enter the next era, someone, possibly Blizzard, will conquer that era as well. Like the MMO era so far, it may not be the first to market, or the second that wins the prize. It will be whomever makes the effort to understand the genre, engineer a solid product and appeal to as many people as possible.
Personally, I'm looking forward to the first internet3, interplanetary-linked holodeck MMO. My undead rogue is going PWN those punks on that non-planet, Pluto. :-)
Aside from that, I have a level 25 mage, and two much lower level characters due to the realm downtimes (another problem). Also, some things are getting to be a little repetitive like the "talk to a guy who gives you a quest to kill 5 whatevers, 4 whatnots and 6 whatsies". Also repetitive to me is the standard caves (although not the designed caves like Deadmines).
I also get a little tired of running around, having it take 5-10 minutes to run somewhere. I have a Hearthstone but I usually save that for when I have to leave for real life reasons. I also can teleport to Stormwind and Ironforge, but that costs 10 silver for my reagent. I can fly on an eagle, but that costs a few silver as well. At level 40 and then 60 I guess I can get a ride which will speed things up. When I used to play on the Arctic Mud, there was a road which was kind of a circuit around most of the world. I could probably do the entire circuit in less than 10 minutes, and with macros as well.
I can think of some other things. On the Arctic Mud, there was a guy you could bring things to, and he would tell you what the hell it was. I had a ton of stuff cluttering up my bank deposit box for a while. I finally got tired of it and consulted the WoW wiki and sold or tossed out a lot of it. It would be better to be able to do this in game as well.
Then of course there is the old multi-player thing of you being in a group, you fight another group, everything slows down to a crawl and when things go back to normal speed you're dead. Not such a problem on the MUDs I've played. WoW developers should play MUDs more, there's a lot they can learn from them.
Build a game that allows the player to have the exact amount of fun regardless of the level of his/her character and allows the player to perform some activities offline. Do this and you'll have hit the holy grail of an online game. It will never happen because it is impossible but...
Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
Yes, this is obviously the case. Ref: World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XI.
Sequential iterations of a videogame != a screen franchise milked as a videogame
You can't take the sky from me...
NPC gameplay is another area. At present, MMORGs suffer from the same problem a lot of MUDs do - many pre-scripted set pieces and very few dynamic scenarios. What's a dynamic scenario? That's where unexpected things can occur. Let's say you have two set pieces that are near each other. In a truly dynamic arena, those can merge into a single encounter from nothing more than normal movement, creating entirely new, unscripted encounters. NPC rules would also change with experience, so a monster that beats up players for a while would be tougher than a newbie monster. (This wouldn't just be in terms of hit points, it would include varying the weightings for actions, capturing items - and using them, learning what type of attack works best against what type of player - the sorts of things rules engines are very good at learning.)
Environmental gameplay is generally the biggest weakness, and therefore the area with the greatest potential for improvement. Have rivers drop (or fail) in droughts and burst their banks in downpours and cloudbursts. If there's an NPC factory making wooden items near a forest, you need to have clearings and new growth. In an earthquake, buildings can fall down, cliffs can collpase and escarpments will be terrifying nightmares. But whilst structures can be rebuilt, mountains can't. Not in any meaningful game time, at least. Overhunting an area should not only be possible, it should be frighteningly easy when populations get too high. Resources should be limited and living resources should only replenish if not driven away. Extinction should also be possible. The environment should have a major impact on what is visible - not mere hidden-line-removal, but realistic visibility constraints. For those into board wargaming, you may be familiar with Advanced Squad Leader, where the line-of-sight rules depended on so many factors that you could spend a week deciding if a shot was possible. That was not good for a boardgame, but is trivial for a modern PC.
R&D... Now, this is a really tough one. It should be possible for players to create their own objects, monsters, etc, if they acquire a high enough skill level, within certain limits. User creations should never unbalance the game (which is why it is so tough) but should be flexible enough that fresh content becomes essentially infinite. But as in the real world, where geeks generally do better in basements than exploring jungles filled with unknown dangers, it should be extremely hard to become highly skilled both in adventuring and inventing. Oh, and inventions should not always do what is expected - whether it is in fiction or fact, mad scientists rarely get the results they are looking for.
Art is a big thing, as well. One of the greatest triumphs of MUD-1 was the graveyard. Those who made the rank of wizard or witch got to write the script on a tombstone for the mortal remains of their character. This had two effects - firstly, it meant that the graveyard (which doubled as a maze) was forever growing bigger. Secondly, it gave people an outlet for their creative side. Designing buildings (a-la Virtual Worlds) is too crude to be really called artistry. You want to be able to make chalk horses on hillsides. It should be possible to plaster a city with wall murals in the largest exercise of virtual graffiti of all time. Oh, and to make it more interesting, a fantasy/historic MMORG should require you to assemble any colours from the raw materials.
Lastly, there's combat and experience. Most MMORGs use a very crude D&D-style hit point system. "Heroic" LARP systems (such as "Spirit of Adventure" - a truly superb game system) had different hit points in different locations, a
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Star Trek Online will be Windows only. It will fail.
That's funny. My MMORPG is City of Heroes/Villains. No Mac or Linux clients, but it does rather well. (It's one of the few apps I run on my games-only PC; if I ever get an Intel Mac, I'd certainly run the Mac version of the client should one be released). I'd certainly like to see platform parity -- Blizzard has always been good at that even though they seem to never actually release anything anymore. I don't want to play a hack and slash online fantasy RPG; I'm still waiting for Diablo 3. Blizzard, hello? I'd pay you for that.
And CoX has all the things that are being touted as making WoW great - good graphics, easy to find pickup games or you can join a supergroup (seem to be much like guilds) -- I'm in a great one that has lots of great people and has regularly-scheduled weekly events several days a week, regular expansions (next major update is probably going to be out in October); the paid expansion was cancelled and the stuff that would have been in it will be available to everyone.
It costs the same, too - $15 a month. And you don't just get one game for that monthly fee; you get both.
In no way do I feel like the game takes over my life. I find the time spent playing with others to be time well spent. It's just one of the various ways I pass the time.
MMORPGs don't have to be this negative thing that takes over your life unless you want them to be.
i am a soviet space shuttle
From what I can tell there isn't going to be a Mac version of Vanguard (the FAQ doesn't even have this question for some reason), so it will not be a 'WoW killer" option for me and many others. That is the one thing that WoW offers: cross-platform play for Mac users. I believe EQ (or EQ2) added a Mac version later, but the worlds were segmented from the Windows players. I don't know of any other MMO's that are Mac compatible. I'm not saying they don't exist; I just haven't heard of them.
I didn't take the time to read all the comments, so I hope this isn't redundant, but...
If you want to beat WoW - lose the monthly fee. I would happily spiral into an addiction to a WoW type game, as long there was no monthly fee. I refuse to spend $50-60 on a game, and then have to keep paying just to play it.
And I'm definitely not cheap, it's just the principle.
Upon starting to play WoW I really got the feeling I was in a watered down Everquest 2. Stylish, better running, fewer bugs and better structured but with far less features.
On of the things that I miss most is that in everquest 2 enemies to low level to you become passive. This prevents the train effect when you run through a low level area and every hostile critter chases you doing no damage but being a pain in the ass.
In fact it is this running that is different as well. WoW doesn't seem to want you to run away from a fight. Turn your back and get hit and your almost certain to be dazed, EQ2 on the other hand gives everyone a sprint option wich allows a quick getaway from too tough a fight.
On the other hand however I encountered far less of the "WTF HIT ME" feeling. If you are in say a level 14-18 area then WoW doesn't suddenly slap in a level 31 just for the heck of it. WoW does like EQ2 have elites but puts them out of harmway and they seem more reasonable. Several quests in EQ2 are incompletable because the elite you have to kill goes grey (and therefore drops no loot you need for the quest) before you are able to handle them.
The WoW gameplay just feels more streamlined. Wich is not bad since it misses such things as way to track questgivers. Put another way, in WoW the indicated level of quest is actually correct.
Yet WoW is inferior in other aspects. The two sides in EQ2 are clear enemies, not allies. Yet it is EQ2 that allows races to cross over to the other side, not WoW. There are fewer classes in WoW.
Another "lesser" aspect is quest items. No MMO gives you enough storage space and when a quest then has you lugging around 4 items it becomes a pain. In EQ2 they take up no space but WoW has them all in your backpack.
In short Everquest 2 made a lot of improvements to the genre wich WoW did not BUT somehow WoW managed to get this older version of the genre to work a whole lot better.
What impresses me the most is the total lack of EQ2 quests that go "kill ten bears then report back. Go kill then more bears then report back. Okay go kill ten more bears... etc etc" (Yes this is really how eq2 quests go). In the beginner area of wow there are about half a dozen enemies and 1 quest that deals with each! Amazing!
WoW also has far less of the rare spawns you need for a quest. Yes it has rare npc's but you don't need them. In EQ2 at one point I had half a dozen quests to kill several rare spawns in one area. A nights gameplay consisted of heading in and doing a quick check if they were "up" and cursing if you saw someone else had just killed them. In WoW you just go to the area, if someone just killed them you wait a few minutes and then take your turn.
One thing I do notice is how PvP influences WoW. I also played Guild Wars and both of them have all their spells/moves adjusted to be playable in PvP. Disabling effects just last much shorter in PvP games then in PvE games. This takes some getting used too. I think the earlier WoW lack of running away has something to do with this. In PvE running away is okay. In PvP an enemy player running away from a fight is annoying.
But what does this all mean for the future? Well, that for now what we are seeing is basically a game that is a refined version of EQ. Not a better game but a better done game. But it is still the same grinding timesink that you would not accept if it was sold as a single player game.
And yet it sells millions and makes a fortune. Can it be improved upon? Yes, make an MMORPG that is fun to the non-grinder. Were people do a quest for the fun of it, not the XP it gives. An MMORPG where it is the journey, not the arriving that matters.
Will it be done? I have no idea. As any
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
In the long run a game where people can build their own content (like Second Life) will surpas any game where they can't in my view. SL is growing fast (between 10% and 20% per month I think). The more users they have the more content gets developed and the better the game gets.
Or as the guy from this blog http://blogs.electricsheepcompany.com/jerry/?p=52 says ...
WoW is awesome, but trapped in a narrative, and as a user or third-party developer you can't build anything in it. SL's content covers the whole spectrum, from charity fundraisers to pr0n to virtual office space and "3D websites" to appearances by real life celebrities to whatever, and it's pure positive feedback with more people meaning more builds, more builds meaning more people and so on
no matter what type of MMOG game, fancy franchise, incredible new game play, or any other attributes that would make a WoW killer, there is one thing I believe that would be a requirement to reach the masses: The game MUST be set in a medieval fantasy world. That theme attracts the largest slice of the population. You get mothers and daughters who romanticise the era, fathers and sons who love swords and killing monsters, and everyone in between. Other genres such as City of Heroes, Star Wars and D&D(even though it's set in medievel fantasy) are going to get a small market share due to the special interest of the genres. City of Heroes attacts comic book fans, Star Wars you get the sci-fi crowd, and D&D has the geek stigma attached to it showing how some franchises end up alienating more than attacting players. I dont believe that any other genre could be as popular as medieval fantasy to males, females old and young alike. I personally play City of Heroes.
(Futurama) Fry: "My folks were always on me to groom myself and wear underpants. What am I, the pope?"
I don't think it's really sad that WoW is a lot of people's "first MMO" (it was for my wife, while I dabbled in both UO and EQ). It's definately a great introduction to that whole genre. WoW does a phenomenal job with the level 1-59 phase, although I completely agree that game at level 60 is very different, and puts off a lot of people. That said, I think some of the changes upcoming in the Burning Crusade expansion will be very welcome (raids toned down dramatically and the honor system revamped). Blizzard's done a great job with the marketing of BC too, dropping little hints here and there, and basically keeping a lot of people still interested in WoW, because they think "BC is right around the corner!".
Anyway, back to the "my first MMO" idea
-- jchenx
If that really is you idea of phun, WoW already has you covered anyway since you can start multiple new characters with them. The problem with leaving WoW is that all the game specific knowledge you have is worthless anywhere else, and you invested a lot of time and money gaining it.
It's like going to another gaming console where all the buttons and conventions are in different places.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
You don't beat a mmorpg.
It beats you.
Hi....give me money so you can play an endless game.
yes....forever and ever.
you will NEVER beat it.
oh...you will be nerfed...and nerfed......till you are totally nerfed.
and you will pay to be nerfed.
Secret of WOW : get as much money as you can from these losers who pay to play games online....forever.
Hell...if I could convince millions of dupes to pay me......hell yeah.
I beat the internet! The end guy is hard.
The last emersive 3d fantasy mporg I played was Asheron's Call (The first one). I loved it, but I was a loner in the game and just did my own thing. (My name was "orc" on frostfell, in case you met me there in the dungeon. lol.
I'm curious whether anybody played both games, and how they compare/contrast. (WoW and Asheron's Call).
In Asheron's Call, I particularly liked the crafter skills and obscure things of that nature. Does WoW have crafter skills?
AC also had fun things that were campy. For instance, they turned all the oceans to blood once. They had a demon running around zapping level 100 characters in 1 hit. I never got to see it but I heard about it. It would attack towns. They had jack-o-lanterns that showed up on halloween and threw pumpkins like the headless horseman. Etc.
Well anyhow. AC was loads of fun but it consumed my life. Sorry about that, "E", my ex girlfriend of the time. But I don't think it would have changed a thing, since you were married to school anyhow.
Yea, how to beat.er.quit the game? Cold turkey.
Since I QUIT Asheron's call I've built a boat, built a pair of bike trailers, built a greenhouse, planted over 100 trees from seeds, designed a few windmill plans, built an RC glider, found God and figured out what that means to me (with some help from above), made a bunch of electronic music tracks, travelled to indonesia. many other things too. Real world accomplishments. That's more satisfying than full plate armor, a lightweight shield, an atlan sword and a million pyrheals on a mule.
I don't know if AC1 is still running, or how many players they might still have...? It's probably still a fun game, though. I remember it fondly. But the real life thing. The first post was absolutely perfect. =\
I wonder if it's safe to dl/run the demo version of WoW.
"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." -Jesus Christ The Lord's Prayer
WOW beats you.
Warning: Could be fatal if taken seriously
I've seen a lot of people saying this, or something that's a slight variant on that. Personally, I believe it's bunk. I'm not going to deny that there are individuals who play WoW to excess. However, that doesn't mean that not playing WoW will prevent them from participating in some other activity, also to excess.
I know plenty of people who would think absolutely nothing of watching TV for 40, 50 or 60 hours a week. How many people spend their entire weekends watching football all weekend, baseball all weekend, NASCAR, etc during their respective season? Plenty, and I'd wager 10x the number that are willing to sit on their computer playing WoW. This doesn't preclude them from taking care of what needs to be done around the house, the same is true of people who play MMOs.
Ultimately, I look at this as being a horribly stereotypical response, kneejerking at least, and a horribly constructed straw man arguement at best. If an individual can't excercise self control, then that's a personal issue. It's certainly not one confined to players of MMOs.
As to another company 'beating WoW' in terms of marketshare, I don't see it happening any time soon. Blizzard did an outstanding job putting the game together, and all of the supposed WoW killers miss the boat on what makes WoW so good. Guild Wars got a few things right, but going for the 'Free MMO!' kick did them no justice, as it's been shown that it's rather difficult to put together a quality MMO when your revenue stream is so limited. D&D Online tried as well, and IMO that shipped very incomplete. Between the low level cap and forced grouping, I think they really missed the boat. From what I've seen of Vanguard, they appear to be headed in that direction.
People decry WoW as not being casual friendly, but I really have to wonder if they know what they mean by that. I see WoW as being exceedingly casual friendly, but only if you have the proper expectations. People who expect to be able to be on the same level as those willing to dedicate a great deal of time to learn higher end encounters, or put insane amounts of time in to PvP to advance that way will, and rightfully so, be ahead of someone who isn't, or can't, make that same sacrifice. Overall, this is what really makes WoW a success among the mainstream. It's not like it was in EQ, where you needed a group to level, or in FFXI, where if you didn't fit the mold of what everyone else thought you should play as a class you could barely advance past 60. You can make it as far as you want solo, and if you want to go farther you can find a group to do that with.
Once companies start figuring that out, and can make an enjoyable MMO, with a reasonably rich backstory, then you'll have an MMO that can compete with WoW on marketshare. Until that happens, anything touting itself as a WoW killer can be looked at in the same manner as iPod killers and Gameboy killers.
I have no regrets, this is the only path.
My whole life has been "UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS"
Just build 350 launch arcologies, then they'll "take off", and you'll have "beat" the game! ....what?
is give me something on my Mac that I can play with my friends on PCs. But no-one else seems to want to do that.
If you could beat WoW, you'd have no reason to keep playing, and thus no reason to keep paying. WoW is unwinnable because it would violate their business model to provide a game someone can beat.
Help us build a better map!
reading the title I thought it was about beating WoW, like you'd beat another video game. I was thinking how you're do that like maxing out your levels and getting the best equipment. There is in fact no way to beat WoW, thats why everyone is still playing, they haven't won yet.
"To be is to do." --Socrates
"To do is to be." -- Aristotle
"Do-Be-Do-Be-Do..." --Sinatra
There is a secret that Blizzard tries to keep under cover, but it is time that the world came to realize.
In summary, there are two places where Blizzard is weak: Quality Assurance and Technical Support. It all has an effect on the relationship they have with their subscribers... If they got their act together, it would be very hard to beat them. I think they have a gap in their armor though.
From the outside, and at the beginning, it all seems so wonderfully engineered, a work of a genious - and indeed, Blizzard has put a lot of work and thought into the world appearance which is quite stunning, and there are a lot of quests and items to discover as well. In the beginning, just discovering the environment with your first toon is great fun.
The problem Blizzard is constantly having - and where they can be seriously bested - is quality of service, and the quality assurance of their software. Generally speaking, each patch they release is no better than any responsible software house would call a "beta" version. There are various lagspike and disconnection issues that Blizzard knows about, but all you get from "support" is disappointing premade crap replies. They will go as far as to deny the existence of problems that your full raid of fourty people wiped upon...
When patch 1.12 first came out, there was a time when the full server just fell of the earth and characters were falling in the nothingness of poorly written code. And yet they continued with the release in Europe, after seeing that it was useless in the US. And then, when solid ground was restored, you could not exit from the Battlegrounds... Or you could not leave the temporary group that was introduced in that release... It all seemed - and this is not the first time - as if NO TESTING was performed before they spewed it out to the public. Why test servers were online, if so easily discoverable bugs were left inside is a mystery.
What I'm saying is that the bugs that stay in the system are many times obvious, telling a story of poor inadequate QA coupled with outsourced "support" that is just there to frustrate players into not bothering them any more.
Well, I think that could EASILY be beaten, and I hope someone does give it a try.
Give me 100 Million US$, 5-6 years and total creative freedom and I'll build you a MMORPG that reaches and beats WoW. I'd actually make it cross-genre and try to put 10 Million players on a single realm. I'd buy West End Games and build Torg Online. Which would so totally kick ass. More animations, but of the same or better WoW quality. Zero downsides Mid-end hardware support just as WoW (one of the things that caused WoWs raging success). Cross-plattform from the beginning, just like WoW + official Linux support. Linux freaks are the prime target audience for MMORPGS. Optional real-life in game trading - Ebay is where the real WoW cash is made, no need to pass that on to them. I'd totally ripp of the raid system of WoW and tweak it further. Barrier of entry would be just as low as WoW and I'd support causual gamers a little more - even if just by selling a budget limited-hours account.
Don't worry, WoW isn't the end of MMORPGs. It's the start.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
There are a lot of casual guilds, but they tend to come and go as the majority of active players get seduced into the hardcore side of the game and leave the casual guild for a hardcore guild. From the casual guilds point of view this means they have to work hard recruiting new members to keep a quorum, and from the players point of view this generally causes a frenzy of online time that lasts for a few months whilst their real life (work, family, education etc) suffers and then they burn out and leave the game.
I got close to being burned by this 5 years ago, but after a frank discussion with my wife (thankyou Dear), realised that there is more fun to the casual game (though less bragging rights as I have no cool gear) and have played casually ever since (well, maybe once a month I'll accept an invitation to a raid).
The casual guilds usually have quite a few mid-level players. To find one, watch round the auction house for guild nametags. If you see a common guildname on a number of non-maxlevel people then they may well be a casual guild.
-- Don't believe everything you read, hear or think
Compared to the time I spend playing WoW -15$ a month makes it a damn cheap hobby. The level of service that Bizz provides is appalling. If someone comes along with a botique MMOG that provides a better level of service, the hardcore raiders/PVPers will jump to that and never look back at Blizz's sorry ass.
The secret of EvE is money. He who was the most Isk wins. That is why it is a game of haves and have nots. Hell I spent the later part of my EvE career training newbies (only a few months of skill training) how to reap havoc against much older characters. But in the end the rich older characters can out last a group of newbs through a war of attrition. If they are really rich they can just hire some mercenaries to camp you into a station until your newbie corp falls apart (destroying morale is the only way to actually break an enemy in EvE).
And sure the last 5% of a skill takes ages to get compared to the first 20%, but when characters have three plus years of skill training then they have a lot of those extra 5% bonuses, and they do add up. One skilled player in a tech 2 ship will be able to take on a whole squadron of newbies (even ones lead by an old player), simply by picking them off one by one outside warp scrambler range (warp scramblers stop you from just warping off when in trouble).
Oh and with Interdictors (AoE warp scramblers) your squadron of newbies don't get to pick their battles anymore.
Newbies with proper training and leadership can cause havoc amongst high character/low player skill people, but that is it. Against high character/high player skill people they are free poddings.
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CINC, 4th Penguin Legion
WoW is the example of how to get rich with game subscription, someone will release a better game and beat it, (FOR SURE)!
World of Warcraft is fine and all, but I believe I'm going to stick with SWG for now. It is much better now (post-NGE) and they have a new expansion on the way not to mention the new profession expertise that is similar to the old skill trees.
It seems to be coming back from the grave yard. I'm going to see where it is going
I think that the only game that can BEAT for good WoW is Lineage 2. I play Lineage 2 and it's more ..... how should I say this .... it's more played than WoW beacause the graphics are more real, PVP ( Player vs. Player ) it's so REAL. Still, the game is evolouing so fast ..... a couple of month's ago it was Cronichle 3, now it is Cronichle 4, and as I hear by the end of the year it's going to be Cronichle 5. Each Cronichle comes with something NEW and exciting.This is my opinnion. (Sorry for my english if I maked a mystake )