Slashdot Mirror
Miami Court Orders Take Two to Hand Over Bully
Jabrwock writes "GamePolitics.com reports that a judge in Miami ruled that Take Two Interactive, makers of the controversial title Bully, must hand over a copy of the soon to be released game to the court within 24 hours. Jack Thompson, the plaintiff, called the ruling a 'huge victory against the violent video game industry', although Take Two can still appeal the order. Thompson filed a lawsuit asking the court to label Bully a 'public nuisance' and restrict its October 17 release in Florida."
Does this ruling actually affect sales of the game, or is it just to let the judge play the game himself and see if it's actually as bad as Thompson claims?
the bully getting bullied?
portfolio
You won't stop until someone who's played GTA actually kills you, will you?
Honestly, we all want you to die not because we're violent, sadistic bastards, but because you just won't stop wasting our tax dollars on this horse-shit.
Someone has already had a hands on review of the game... Dear ole Jack won't be the first.
Thompson needs to stop projecting his sick mind on the masses.
http://www.cafepress.com/hikarudesigns/ http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=hikaru
This kind of publicity will only increase sales for rockstar.
The ruling is so that it can be assessed by somebody within the court.
than uninformed asshats with a cause all in the name of "saving the children."
/me loves me some video games...
Why not protest the war or lack of education funding in the more poorer districts? I think children need more, oh I dunno, text books and trained staff than they need protection from "the boogie woogies" of video games...
Oh right, cuz the guy is a press whore no-talent assclown who just wants to be known as the biggest loser in the world.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
But that summary made me laugh out loud...for real. For pete's sake Jack..it's a GAME for crying out loud. Please find something better to (not) waste your law school education on.
Given the average intelligence of the people assosiated with Jack Thompson and his anti-videogame 'movement', I doubt any of them are smart enough to actualy get the computer game installed and running, much less have the skill to get past even the first stages of the game.
And what good is him having an advance copy going to do anyone, other than the fact that he will have a few extra words to the rants he's been making about the game from day 1. Heck, I didn't even know about the game until I heard him blabbing about it. Maybe he should realize that he's just turned into free advertising for the game and shut up?
Nahh, that would be too mature a move for him. He's content to make a fool out of himself, again.
I don't just mean it reaches a bad result. This really is just bad law as well as bad policy.
A fundamental bedrock of first ammendment jurisprudence is the principle of no prior restraint. Sure the court has unfortunatly carved some exceptions where individuals might be fined or even prosecuted for the content of their work (obscene material with no redeming literary/scientific value) but it has universally struck down anything that even smacks of prior restraint. Obviously any damages can be sought after the game is released and the only reason to submit it now is to achieve something like judicial approval for their game. Such an action flies in the face of long established first ammendment jurisprudence.
I suspect Thompson just found a sympathetic local judge who either didn't know or didn't like the clear first ammendment case law on prior restraint. Then again maybe the publishers didn't protest too loudly knowing they could have it reversed on appeal and it would get them great publicity. In either case I don't doubt that this will quickly be reversed.
If you liked this thought maybe you would find my blog nice too:
Yes, that's right, a huge victory for Jack. He finally got his hands on a copy of a video game before release!
Obviously since nobody else has played this game yet, it will be a major loss to the gaming industry. Certainly there aren't already copies in the hands of video game reviewers, or any store or... wait? There are? *How* many people have played it?
I'm not quite sure how this is a major victory, other then that he found a(another?) judge to play ball with him.
Does a line appended to your comment give your post meaning in and of itself, or only in relation to those without?
Maybe it is just me? It's the "think of the children" crowd who are a public nuisance.
I think it shows a large amount of disrespect toward parents (and adult gamers) all over to have a Judge/Plaintiff deciding what is good or bad for the public when it comes to video games or art or entertainment.
Last time I checked the First Amendment was still in the constitution. How is a video game a public nuisance, whatever that means, and subject to extraordinary examination that would never pass constitutional muster if applied to a book or movie?
Thompson is bringing a claim to the court that the game constitutes a menace. Since the game isn't actually out yet, the judge has no way to proceed with this claim until he sees the product. I fully anticipate he'll view it for a few days, take a few days of consultation, and then reach a sumary judgement for the defendants. You'll be hard pressed to find a judge willing to prohibit free speech or free commerce of this kind. Blocking the sale of a legal commerical product won't pass much constitutional scrutiny and would be thrown out in an instant by a higher court.
This is just Jack Thompson wanting attention for his upcoming book (hell, he called his co-author as a witness). Giving him attention is letting him win.
It's not stupid. It's advanced.
I always thought the furor over GTA and suchlike was foamy-mouthed zealotry from technophobic churchladies. This alters my perspective. The subject matter is enough to royally piss me off, but I'm not sure whether that's enough to make me agree with censorship. I'd like to say that freedom outweighs all other considerations. I really would. But on a personal level I have to wait to see what shakes out.
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
Other than Jerk Thompson's, how on earth does this case exist? On what grounds is the court asking for review? I am just at a lack here to understand how this would work. How does JT claim he deserves pre-release software for his own gratification? Not to mention that i doubt this would hold up on appeal with what I assume are amazingly specious claims.
IANAL...
If I were Take Two, my FIRST piece of evidence in defending my wares would be America's Army. "Hey it isn't just us making games that are violent. The very same government asked to pass judgement against us gives this shit away!"
AA is designed to be as accurate as possible with regard to teaching people proper technique for assault, infiltration and causing strategic mayhem. All supported by our tax dollars. If the government is freely supplying this material to people, how the fuck can they ban it? Is this fucking insane or am I missing something?
No sig for you!!
... he hasn't been the same after playing a US general in Broken Arrow (worst accent EVER !)
Can they counter sue to have Jack Thompson labelled a 'public nuisance'?
What blows my mind is that this is the guy who suggested that someone should make a game where the president of Take 2 Interactive and her family are killed... and then blew off the $10,000 he offered should someone make that game. Where the **** does he get the moral authority, let alone professional authority -- I mean, he's a lawyer, and knows about the game industry only in an academic sense, and I say that using the loosest definition of academic possible -- to judge whether Bully is acceptable. He's a God fearing man. Would it be so bad for God to drop an anvil on him?
Regards, Ian
Why does this guy still have the license to practice law? He should have been disbarred years ago for the stunts he's always trying to pull.
Hell, why is this guy still alive? After what he said about the gamefaqs community, he should have been struck down by God as an agent of the devil.
It's been a long time.
Bully is a game that no children should be exposed to. Clearly, It has been crafted by the Devil it/him/her-self, or probably a lesser Demon such as Orobas or Teeraal, to make the children who play it commit acts of violence against other children, and those who don't, against Jack Thompson and his lackeys.
Since when can some random uninvolved third party with no standing sue to see an unreleased product? Is the judge JT's drinking buddy or just completely out of his mind?
So, before I RTFA, I just assumed that there was a "bully" that was to be handed over.
"News for Nerds," eh? A bully getting there just desserts would certainly be of interest to all us nerds who faced bullies throughout adolesence.
But, then, I suppose that after RTFA, the real bully here is that idiot Jack Thompson.
"Adventure? Excitement? A Jedi craves not these things."
Never played GTA. Thought about it, but never did.
Now I'm getting curious. Might have to pick me up a copy.
Anyone want to give Jack Thompson a sightseeing tour of NYC in their Cirrus SR20?
Does this ruling actually affect sales of the game, or is it just to let the judge play the game himself and see if it's actually as bad as Thompson claims?
Judge says he wants to see 100 hours of game play. Thing is - there isn't much more time than that between the handover deadline and the game's release...
Running Windows^H^H^H^H^H^H^H OSX and Linux in the home. (I don't have time for Solitaire any more.)
The Judge ordered Take Two to provide a copy of the game so the Judge can sit around and make up his own mind over the contents of the game.
Maybe Take Two should provide the Judge with the same footage that they provided to the ESRB?
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Does anyone have a mirror yet.. 1..2..3..4..5..6..7..8..9..10 seconds yet?
Just because it works, Doesn't make it right. - JTM
Jack Thompson is declared "public nuisance"?
Some Background
Thompson's rambling initial letter.
The Suit, from Jack's Perspective.
Ars Technica's take on what happened today.
A little bit about Jack (including favorite classics like "claims Janet Reno is a homosexual. Repeatedly." and "tries to get Florida bar ruled unconstitutional.")
Sooo... Take 2 has deep into Thursday to file an appeal. Thompson will likely retort on Friday, and a ruling made on Monday. 24 hours after this Take 2 will deliver a copy... on the release day.
As the site is currently down, does anyone know what the legal grounds are for this ruling? How can there be "more copycat violence" if the game hasn't been released in the first place?
For that matter, I'd like to demand a pre-release copy of Halo 3 to ensure that there isn't graphic violence and amazing multiplayer action.
The ______ Agenda
See the problem here is that America has more lawyers than engineers. If Jack Thompson and crew were engineers then they would write non-violent video games like civ and carmen sandiego, and more recently things like Katamari, or Mario.
Instead, all he can think to do is sue people for doing something he does not like. His is the violent and destructive action against a creative endeavor. The fact that the court is willing to indulge his infantile rampaging is indicitive of the corruption and facist tendencies of the legal profession and courts of Florida. Hillary Clinton is no damn better on this issue.
The fact that car jacking and personal violence predates videogaming altogether wont stop these pricks from scapegoating the new pastime any more than it stopped them from blaming TV, movies, liberal hollywood, Rock and Roll, guns, fluoride in the water, alchohol, and communism.
To a certain type of scared closed minded mentality the new thing is always to blame. To them it's not a matter of "how does this work" but rather "how can this hurt me." And when you look at the numbers of lawyers to engineers you start to see the trend of people more willing be fearful than knowledgeable.
"Foley" in which you play a Congressman and the Chairman of the "Missing and Exploited Children Commitee". In the game you pursue pages and ...
Just think of the children!!!
People do not have to buy the damn thing if it offends them. I am so sick of fascists like Jack(ass) Thompson trying to force people to live by his moral code.
The real question is whether or not a game about Jack dropping an anvil on God would be okay. How about King George (the Texan, not the Brit)?
I have nothing to say.
So, how much are Take Two paying Jack Thompson at the moment in order to get him to stir up shit to drum up their sales figures? The whole thing seems kind of suspicious to me. It certainly wouldn't be the first time someone's been paid off to act as an 'enemy' of another person in order to help drum up support and interest...
to avoid paying for a game. You'd think the judge could afford to just buy it when it comes out.
Take Two lost millions due to the Hot Coffee mod (repackaging cost, recall cost, lost sales, etc).
Not all publicity is good.
I would never have heard of this game had not Jack Thompson thrown up such a huff. Now, I want to play it.
"Let's see... we'll just ban these books and NO ONE will ever want to read them... right?"
This is an interlocutory order. TakeTwo can't appeal this order forcing them to turn over the game. If TakeTwo loses the full trial, then they can appeal and claim that the order should have never been issued. It's a civil proceudure rule.
That aside, I'm not surprised. Most state judges have little concept of the first amendment. Even if they lose at the trial level, they will almost certainly prevail on appeal. Video games are protected as expression just like speech, books, and flag burning. All this will do is stir up a media shitstorm, you'll see a bunch of Tipper Gore wannabes out whining about "saving the children," from violence, and then we'll go back to executing criminals, engaging in war, and watching Sunday afternoon football. God Bless America.
And then some sex games like: seduce your dad to get pregnant?
What do all of you think? Think it will cool the heels of these asshats?
"Does this ruling actually affect sales of the game"
;-)
:-P
All I know is that the more awful the game sounds the more I want to get a copy!
Gots to have my shoot 'em ups as realz as possible!
And when is the next Unreal Tournament being release?
HOWEVER I will cheerfully defend the rights of others to play them. It is imperative that the free thinking among us stand up against this rising tide of intolerance and cluelessness.
This election is 1858 all over again... Stand up against the theocracy. Stand up for your rights!
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Funny how Jack's tried in the past over a school-shooting to get $33-mil for damages because the kid who did the shooting played "Violent" video games such as Final Fantasy, had a copy of The Basketball Diaries, and accessed porn sites. Parents no where to be found? I'm rather sick of this guy.
Where were the parents when these kids get the games, obtains movies, and accesses the porn sites? Jacky-boy. Put the blame where it is due. I have no problems with my kid and porn or video games because I monitor what he does on the computer, consoles, and DVD-player, and I'll be damned if some born-again Christian thinks he can control how I control my kid.
Some kid shoots people and you try to get the kids parents $33-million? Idiot...
... finally, I way to get my hands on Duke Nukem Forever! "Yes Mr Judge, the game will probably make me do bad things - can I just have a sneak preview to be sure?"
[quote]a judge in Miami ruled that Take Two Interactive, makers of the controversial title Bully, must hand over a copy of the soon to be released game to the court within 24 hours[/quote]
Or else the judge will have to admit he forgot his son's birthday and didn't get him anything.
...so maybe we ought to sue him for defamation of character (hey, it'd be less friviolous than his lawsuit)!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
As a victim of bullying for much of my life to date, as I'm sure many of us are, I find this game slightly offensive. I believe there are two sides to this arguement, however. Firstly, the game could move bullying from the school-yard into the interactive game-world, thus reducing the bullying in schools. This, I believe, is an optomistic view. I'm sure there will be some, in fact many, people who stop bullying others in real life after playing this game. But, in contrast, it is also true that many people will start, or increase, bullying because of it. I am not going to object to it's being released to the public because I am not so concieted that I believe that my own opinions, feelings, and beliefes are the only correct ones; but I do hope - forgive me if I have not done my homework - that the game should have a rating making it suitable for people of a minimum of 18 years old.
It's ridiculous to profit off of something (on top of trying to have it pulled from shelves) because you think it's too violent. He should go speak to kids in the poor neighborhoods about not dealing drugs for a living if he wants to make a difference.
I believe the PS3 is a threat to our children and our sacred ways of life.
... REVIEW ... IT FOR POSSIBLE IMMORAL MATERIAL.
I DEMAND A PS3 SO I CAN
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
...must hand over a copy of the soon to be released game to the court within 24 hours.
Well, it beats driving to Best Buy, and is a heck of a lot faster than Amazon...
I know what my next mod is going to be Jack Thompson: Episode I.
They want to see 100 hours of gameplay? Now we'll have a legal precedent for more jumping puzzles!
Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
Go f**k yerself, then take a long as nap. No adult wants you censoring their enertainment. Any child who gets a hold of your "satan's games" deserves to kick his parents in teh nutz0rz. arents should be responsible for their children's actions.
Any parent who does not know what games their child is playing deserves to be shot, quartered, drawn, burned at the stake, ground, and served at a Nazi breakfast.
Disclaimer: I was a teacher for some years until I grew the last few brain cells I have left. I could not stand talking with the retarded "I can't see what's wrong with my retarded child" parents.
I'll tell you
For a fee...
Sorry, ran out of title length. "Judge plays game, gets ass kicked, orders Taketwo to make it easier to win"....
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Thought they couldn't stop you but could only react afterwards.
Interesting that they are doing this to a video game- not sure it will be constitutional.
"We want you to provide copies of your newspaper daily before you go to press so we can approve or disapprove it."
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
If the people lobbying against porn secretly like porn, does that mean that Jack Thompson secretly likes violence?
See the problem here is that America has more lawyers than engineers.
No, that's not the problem. The problem is one man. But he has tried this b.s. repeatedly in the past, and has a long history of failure. The "fascist" courts don't seem to have been very good the man, despite all his frothing at the mouth. Maybe they don't like the fact that he keeps suing the Florida bar.
As for the lawyers to engineers ratio, the reactionary, fearful, know-nothing mentality has been with humanity since long before there were lawyers and engineers. Based on history and current events, it seems to exist in nations where there are very few lawyers and comparatively many engineers just as much as it exists in lawyer-infested places like the United States. Come to think of it, in many of those places, the attacks aren't merely legal.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
What does it really mean to review a game? Does he have to actually play it, or does he just hand it over to someone to highlight parts of it?
After a quick demo of the cool early release (and posting a torrent copy), sonny boy says "Yeah, it's really cool! Everyone will want a copy!"
The judge will buy some Take Two stock.
Case Closed.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
It's not violent videogames that have made me want to kill Jack Thompson...
Game... blouses.
Step 1. Sue game makes for free early copies of games.
Step 2. ???
Step 3. Profit!
Oh wait...
I bet the Judge puts Bully on his computer, and torrents it before it is even released.
Judge: I can't really rule without seeing the game.
Rockstar: We've got nothing to hide, want to see it?
Judge: Sure, that'd help.
Jack Thompson Self Serving Press Release: Hah! Because of MY great lawsuit, the judge ORDERED Rockstar to produce their evil game!!
Gullible Press: "Judge orders Rockstar to produce game!"
Slashdot: "fascist jugde orders rockstar to prodce game!"
The cake is a pie
Could it be that the judge just wants an early copy of the game to score some points with his teenage kid...
I've been watching (kinda unavoidable) the antics of J.T., and in my opinion, I'd say he's off his rocker, outta his tree, and has misplaced his marbles. Of course if he'd just sit down and shut up, I'd be happy to varnish the rocker, put it back in a tree, and even get him a bag of marbles.
I think we should make a memorial to him. His is after all, one of the biggest examples of why lawyers have a bad rep. I know a couple of lawyers who are just embarrased when anybody mentions him. Why hasn't the bar done something about him yet? Are they laughing too hard when they read about his antics? Has he become the legal worlds version of comedy relief?
I wonder if he realizes that he is the prime example of a lawyer bully. Maybe he imagines too much of himself in those games.
("Me thinks he doth protest too much...")
Later
This is an interlocutory order. TakeTwo can't appeal this order forcing them to turn over the game. If TakeTwo loses the full trial, then they can appeal and claim that the order should have never been issued. It's a civil proceudure rule.
That aside, I'm not surprised. Most state judges have little concept of the first amendment. Even if they lose at the trial level, they will almost certainly prevail on appeal. Video games are protected as expression just like speech, books, and flag burning. All this will do is stir up a media shitstorm, you'll see a bunch of Tipper Gore wannabes out whining about "saving the children," from violence, and then we'll go back to executing criminals, engaging in war, and watching Sunday afternoon football. God Bless America.
There's just not much else to say about him.
>I think children need
Sometimes i'd like to see the credentials of some of these posters, things like "Have children" "No children" or "Still a child myself"
While i may be old enough to remember playing the original Adventure, and enjoying it, I'm too old to think computer games are an interesting way to kill time, and I can still appreciate new words. I kind of like "asshat", but "assclown" sounds like too much of a stretch, an attempt at one-upping.
This video game is so intense they're trying to ban it?
Sweet! I gotta get me a copy of that game!
Where can I buy it *right now*??!
If the masses can keep you down, you're not the Ubermensch.
Glad we got that PS3 out of the way, now I have nothing to distract me from playing Bully on the PS2.
Got to be elected president for that!
UGH, Jack Thompson is such a douche bag.
Really, I can't think of any better way to put it.
-d
"Here Lies Philip J. Fry, named for his uncle, to carry on his spirit"
I'm so going to start coding on that one...Anvil Drop '07!
From my understanding, Bully is actually not the type of game the title and Take Two's reputation in the game industry would imply. So much so, that the game has actually received surprisingly mild ratings from reviewers regarding any sort of violence in the game what-so-ever.
The game literally has very little to do with going around GTA style, beating up defenseless weaklings at random. In fact, it's quite the opposite and promotes standing up to the adversity that bullies present in humorous ways. Honestly, I'd say parents have more to fear from your typical Mario title than they do from Bully.
This movement is entirely motivated by who is making the game, rather than the content of the game itself.
8==8 Bones 8==8
repeating subject as body of text?
This is 2 Live Crew all over again.
There was a lawyer who pissed all over free speech and the Constitution in Florida, making it illegal to sell 2 Live Crew tapes in Florida, and making it illegal for them to perform.
I believe his name was Jack Thompson.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Live_Crew
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
Can't they bring some sort of motion to have a judge who actually understands technology preside over the case?
I used to play hockey in a small(ish)* local adult league. If he harassed us like he does gamers, he would likely not be in good physical health today. There were plenty of instances of bloodletting for offences much less severe than what this assclown delivers.
Gamers have shown remarkable restraint towards this man.
* It was much larger than the more official local hockey scene.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Thing is - there isn't much more time than that between the handover deadline and the game's release...
And perhaps you nailed it right on the head. Sometimes, when a judge wants to have a little fun with a particularly vexatious or obtuse litigant, he'll take their more absurd motions and put constrainst on them that make their fulfillment render the cause of action moot. So, perhaps this judge thinks it silly and so requested something (like 100 hours of gameplay) that can't be fulfilled before general release to make sure that he won't be placed in the awkward position of having to rule on the legality of its distribution. (And, anyway, wouldn't that be a flagrant case of Prior Restraint?)
All the techniques ever used to make men moral have been themselves thoroughly immoral... (Nietzsche)
Send a special version which requires that an NDA be signed before being used.
Then if he shoots his big mouth off, sue his sorry ass.
Also, another option, don't sell the game in Florida, but advertise stating that it would have been available if Mr. Thompson hadn't been harassing Take Two so much. List his home address and phone numbers and let the populace decide.
Then finally, file a harassment suit. I know of many more games which have even more blood and violence than Take Two's games, and he doesn't seem to be going after them. Slap a gag order on him and watch his head explode.
Who is general failure, and why is he reading my hard drive?
I was in EB's two weeks ago in Australia and saw the game Bully on the shelf as a new game. The strange thing was it was not named as Bully (can't remember what though) but all the artwork was identical to what I have seen from game sites. The writing was also something similar to the introduction. I was in a hurry and did not enquire if the game was actually available although from previous experience if the game box in EB's has full information front and rear then it normally is in stock.
Since I am not currently in Australia (will be returning soon) can anyone (this also may be available in the UK since Australia uses the PAL TV standard) confirm or deny this?
Maybe the best way of getting around this issue is to rename the game from "Bully" which possibly has terrible connotations for those of a delicate nature, to something less likely to upset people.
There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
Where's Horatio Cane, prolly staring off at nothing as usual....
So where do I file to declare that Jack Thompson is a pulbic nuisance?
I heard the judge also subpoenaed an 18 inch pan pizza and a 2 liter bottle of Coke to go along with it.
The judges ruling will be given on IGN.com along with an in-depth review.
How ridiculous are these people who want to prosecute game makers? I understand protecting the children, but in the end it is up to the parents. If a parent doesn't let their child watch rated R games, then the parent shouldn't let them play rate M games.
Can I bum a sig?
In Europe, the UK (Isn't the UK in Europe?) and Australia, It's being called "Canis Canem Edit", which is Latin for "Dog Eat Dog."
Ironically, I think you're an idiotic shithead, and I don't intend to defend you at all.
Beteween this and this, I think Slashdot needs a new "Florida" icon... :P
Jack Thompson has persuaded me to become a lawyer for this very reason. All I have to do is call myself an "expert" in a field, even if I know something about it... let's say "cars." Now I just walk up to my local dealership and say "I need to test this new Jaguar for the public good! Give me a brand new Jaguar or I'll sue you!"
Then you can carry around special business cards. I'm a gourmet expert! My meal is free or I'll sue you! I'm a alcohol inspector. I'll need to sample and take away your finest wines to make sure they're safe for consumption. If you don't comply, I'll sue you for putting the public in danger!
He's a dumbass nutjob, plain and simple, but he's also shrewed enough to convince people who, like him, also have no idea what the Hell they're talking about. That's the scary part.
What did he say about the GameFAQs community?
:(){
As another user has already stated, it's not the game itself which is of any consequence, it's who is making the game. Jack has had a hard-on for Take Two for years now, and he's going to harass and attempt to stifle their right to free speech and free expression when they release their next game and their next game after that ad nauseum. It's not about the game. It's about a personal vendetta.
[Insert disclaimer stating that this is merely my opinion and not fact, as to keep nutjob lawyers from suing me]
Now if the judge refuses that, you know he's just trying to screw with the product. The testers' responses and recordings provide public opinions of 20-30 semi-random people on appropriateness of the product, whereas a copy of the game restrains to a single pov.
This will actually play right into Take Two's hands.
Judge orders Take Two to go into production on new game.
Judge gives new game a lot of hype, no matter which way he rules.
Rules against the game-->The game will not be available to minors, because that always works. Loads of people buy the game to see what all the fuss was about.
Rules for the game-->The game is hailed as a new messiah for being the game that got a judge to tell Jack Thompson to shut up and go away. Millions of copies purchased in gratitude.
Profit!
A victim of the ignorant loudmouth disease that is rampant in the US. You have no clue what you are talking about, and yet insist on blathering on like a dumbass. The game is about being a high school kid, and its teen rating is very consistant with the content of the game. At least read a preview and learn what the game is about before deciding to buy Thompson's horse shit.
I say they be the bully, and sue Jack Thompson for being a public nuisance and find him as a Vexatious Litigant, and publically shame him all over CNN and every other news media outlet. Let the whole USA know that Mr. Thompson is practically uneducated as far as any type of common sense goes, and then play a bigger bully and start telling people the truth behind his idiotic claims, and point out how a (maybe?) 14-year old brought Mr. Thompson down to his knees by making him resort to insults. That alone might put Mr. Thompson into hermitude, forever, and the world would be FAR better off without him.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I'm an , err *thinks fast* Creationist Rightwing Christian ! I insist that Maxis hand over a copy of Spore to me right now so that I can see , erm , how badly it spreads the lie of creationism. They can have it back in 2 or three years.
The government went after porn studios that had hired Traci Lords after it came out that she was a minor when they were filmed. The charges were dismissed when the defense pointed out that she obtained a passport stating she was a minor. If the government gave her an incorrect ID, how can you prosecute the studio's for believing the government?
Wired.com had a neat article about it.
Their take on the subject? Rockstar has pulled a coup with this one. They've made a game that people are preemptively blowing their tops about, and in reality, A) the messages are actually good, and B) it's a social critique on both those people and the principle that "power corrupts". In the first respect, it's opposite of GTA, but in the latter case, it's exactly the same.
The game doesn't glorify bullying at all. Typical missions involve defending the helpless. One mission that looks bad -- accompanying a gang of toughs that are going to beat up a hobo -- reverses when the toughs flee, and you end up befriending the man. On the other hand, like in GTA, everyone in a position of power is corrupt. And, most importantly, by "lowering the stakes" to such a minimal level, where one of the greatest crimes you can commit is to stay out past curfew, Rockstar both embarrasses those who railed against the game while knowing nothing about it, and the society that puts these types of people in public office.
You're treating a symptom while the disease rages on. The fish rots from the head. Why not cut off the head?
Seeing as how T2's stock price fluctuates a lot based on public fear of their constant litigation,even when they do win a few now and then, I'm not sure I'd go that far yet.
Libertarians somehow believe that private businesses should be stronger than governments but weaker than individuals.
Let's just file a CA against Jack for being a dickhead and interfering with our better interests-- the possibility that games might be made without the game makers worrying Jackass Dumbshit might come sue them. Maybe the price of games will come down when this moron goes away. Maybe if the concept of parents controlling their kids was pushed more than the world having to be full of magical bondage fairies that taught good manners and nonviolence, we might actually get some of the stuff dickhead over there pretends he's after.
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That's funny. I believe the same about the space shuttle. Now when do I get to, hum , review it? I'm willing to travel, I mean, I understand it's a little difficult to ship a space shuttle, tank, boosters, a zillion litre of fuel, launch pad, launch teams, command center, and all the space necessary to place it on in 24h. So a private jet, with nude, willing women onboard, comming to pick me up will be an acceptable replacement for home delivery.
You know, all these Jack Thompson stories keep popping up here and there. But has anyone ever asked him, in response to all his claims about "training" killers and bullies and inspiring school violence, how would these games do it, according to him?
Like, with actual scientific studies and the like?
Try using the comment field for your comment then, rather than the subject field?
Someone needs to crash a plane into Jack Thompson.....
It's only paranoia if your wrong...
Judge should then bill tompson for the hundred hours of gameplay nesssary to fully review the content.
Are less violent than the bible.
When do we ban that? It doesn't even have an age rating on it!
Hrmm... Anvil Drop '07. How will this be improved on from Anvil Drop '06?
Regards, Ian
Rockstar is clearly thinking these issues through ahead of time, creating weapons for the legal battles. But then, what else would you expect from a company that could sucessfully release an update to pong! If only the Southpark guys would take on Jack ...
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Obviously the Judge and the Lawyer have no clue about the 9th amendment of the constitution that says "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people". Which I believe it is up to the individual to decide what is to violent for them. If the individual is a minor then it is up to the parents. The government has no place in this issue. Government should not be used to replace bad parenting. I know this game is called Bully but lets look at Grand Theft Auto. GTA is a game which I personally think went to far. I will not play it. That is my choice. If you want to play it go right ahead. I will not stop you unless you are my minor child. What Ever happend to personbel responsability.
Yes, the judge will play with himself.
*cough*, like you are one to talk about bad habbits....
Thanks, no wonder I could not remember the name since I never studied Latin at school. Still the Latin name is interesting and appropriate.
There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
..and I was hoping to take my revenge out on a virtual society within my computer game.
Unfortunately, I may not be able to do this, so I might have to go beat up some innocent people instead.
well yeah, because you have to make sure that the nude willing women are GODLY WOMEN and are FAMILY friendly. So you need one just to make sure, right? ;)
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
in the 1950s it was comic books which caused teen deliquency. Then it was movies. Now it is violent video games. When will society stop looking for excuses?
I got permanently modded -1 because I dared to question Israel on
- The anvils will use Pixel Shader 3.0 for a more realistic metal look.
- A new "Pimp My Anvil" mode will allow extensive anvil customization.
- Iron Maiden contributed 2 exclusive songs to the heavy metal soundtrack.
When all other methods of communication fail, try words.
Never heard of that upcoming title before, but now i'll look out for it and am eager for any unbiased (p)review.
The judge just wanted to get a copy early, that's all this is about :)
Hey, before you label me as 'Flame': it *is* a good thing for the company.
:)
The whole thing is completely ridiculous, as (nearly) anybody can easily see. If worst comes to the worst and the USA truly looses it's slim grip on reality, this game could actually be banned in Florida.
But the rest of the world (and USA sans Florida) hears about it.
This is great PR, truly amazing. If I wrote a game, I'd actually be jumping with joy if it was treated like this.
It's going to sell very well
Ciao,
Klaus
Free PC version of ChipWits at http://www.breueronline.de/klaus/chipwits/
He wants to hang out on the island and kill a million boars so he can grind his way up the levels. Then in court he will wield the Sword of a Thousand Truths against the complainant and say "you're totally pwned, dude!"
More irrelevant stats and updated rosters, duh. Didn't you know the 25lb category was completely dominated by ACME after the recent transfer season?
The Mac Pro is a threat to our children. Especially the Quad Core 3GHz version! Where can I pick up my review copy?
I really wonder what the big idea behind this is. What will the judge do when he thinks the game is too violent, or not "nice" for some people, or even give people the idea that to bully is a good thing.
I do not think the judge will be able to stop the release of the game; he will not have the power to do anything about the content of the game. What are the intentions?
Do we not have the freedom to express in an artistic way by for example creating a video game? If people thing that their kids should not play this game because it is bad influence for them they should simply not allow them to play the game. It is the same thing as, if you think your child should be allowed to watch a adult movie you should simply not allow him to.
People do have their own responsibility and the responsibility towards their kids to give them the education they think is good for them. If this includes not playing a certain game they should simply not allow the kid to do so.
Regards, Johan Louwers.
Yep, it's called prior restraint, and it is widely considered the worst form of censorship. The Pentagon Papers case was the first time in history the judicial branch had exercised prior restraint and that was at the request of the executive over a national security matter (and the restraint was lifted within a week). Things have gone downhill since then in national security issues - prior review by the military is routine in war reporting, though it's totally ineffective thanks to the internet and the international press - but as far as prior restraint by the judicial branch over something like a "dangerous" videogame -- I don't know of any case comparable.
true, but I can't exactly feel sorry for take two. They bought this upon themselves, they have deliberately made games that appeal to the shock horror tabloid press in order to generate publicity. I can't say im suprised, or especially upset that their shock tactics marketing has come back to bite them on the ass. They can clearly make great games, the irony is, they dont actually NEED to provoke people. The downside is, they tar all games with the 'violent cop killing simulation' brush. You cant say that take2 has actually improved the image of the games industry, unlike the Sims.
DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
You don't get to bring a case regarding the content of an expression before it is published.
Now perhaps Thompson has some clever argument that some pre-release copies constitute release but the essence of no prior restraint is exactly that the government doesn't get to go review your work before it is published.
It sounds like what is going on is that florida published a pretty blatantly unconstitutional law (if it supports the judge's action) and the local judge is playing it safe and letting the appealete judges do any striking down of the law.
If you liked this thought maybe you would find my blog nice too:
I disagree. They haven't even had to advertise Bully. I only heard of it from slashdot articles like this one.
nothing
Listen, Jack, if you wanted a pre-release copy of the game, I'm sure Take Two would gladly send you one.
Remember that she started off this crap before you vote for her in the next election.
The poster in a Game store I saw the other day also includes text to the effect of '(formally known as "Bully")' - presumably to make sure people still buy it.
The real bullies, the selfimportant soccermom twits are going to litigate videogames out of existence soon. Pretty much like what they have done to cigarette companies.
... from what I've heard, it's essentially a 21st century Skool Daze. And that was a hell of a good game.
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Come on... you know you want to.
Cliff Claven
K.E.G. Party Chairman
Founding Leader of: Koncerned for Egalitarin Governance
"or is it just to let the judge play the game himself and see if it's actually as bad as Thompson claims?"
Hm? Did you read the article?
"She added that the Judge will view the game in chambers beginning tomorrow afternoon and is prepared to spend several days watching its content."
Tough job, being a judge. Maybe Take-Two could submit some beer and nachos into evidence, while they're at it. (Really, doesn't sound like a bad thing...say that you actually have to _see_ the game before deciding if it is a nusiance...)
Reminds me of the joke about the Supreme Court needing "examples for private study", when deciding the Hustler pornography case.
Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
I'm involved, somewhat, in a wireless ISP. It never ceases to amaze me the great lengths the people with the most money will go to in order to hang on to that money. We have installed for quite a few poor people, and they have never asked for a discount, though some have tried to get the install fee knocked down. However, without fail, a doctor will try and get the monthly cut in half, because they think they are freaking special or something. The nerve of someone making two or three hundred thousand-plus a year and living in a house whose concrete driveway and garage costs more than my entire house and land put together, thinking they shouldn't have to pay full price for something!
Transporter_ii
Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
See, up here in Canada we have an unusual legal system, it's quite different from that of the States. Basically cases like this don't make it to trial, our judges do what is called 'throwing out' a case. It's an unusual concept I know, but it works in keeping things like that RIAA fiasco from happening. Our judges know that politicians are the ones who have the power to make these big deciscions, not some morally upright jackfuck. SO... they don't deal with that shit.
The sad part about Jack Thompson is that he makes more than you ever will by just being an asshat. And now he's demanding free video games too.
Making your point twice enforces it...
It would be awesome if the judge leaked it...you know, so people can...um...oh nevermind.
while i haven't played AA, i would imagine that it is wholesome compared to GTA because you are playing an american fighting in the desert against "terrorists" instead of playing a black teenager in california listening to rap music and shooting at white people. there is probably a lower occurence of prostitutes in AA. tho, running over a hooker in an abrams tank would be way cooler than running over one in a car. perhaps we will see that in GTA: kabalah city
the logic is simple: setting muslims on fire is good, stealing cars from white people is bad. AA is good, GTA is bad.
sarcasm:
-noun
1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
1. Wads and wads of free press about the game
2. Sued by a lawyer who loses nearly every court battle he's ever been in
I don't think Rockstar considers this a bad thing.
Leave it to Florida to stomp on the 1st Amendment at all times.
Can we get a lawsuit going to ban the Bible down there? It's full of rape and murder, and I think the youth of the world should be protected from it.
You're thinking of cannabis.
"Using linux is like a game, if you're able to make it run better than Windows, you're winning" - Unknown slashdotter.
I predict the following scenereo:
Employee knows something really brutal will happen if he wins a certain fight.
J: Let's see what happens when you defeat that kid.
E: Ok... oops he beat me.
J: Do it again...
( repeat N times )
J: This court orders you to beat that kid or I'll find you in contempt.
Proof that video games don't cause real-life violence: Jack Thompson is still alive.
QED.
that, was kina the point... a few extra letters and WHAM!
Cliff Claven
K.E.G. Party Chairman
Founding Leader of: Koncerned for Egalitarin Governance
Wow, so if I start filing frivolous lawsuits against companies, does that mean I can get free advance copies of games, too?
I just figured it out. Jack is friends with that judge and the judge is a big fan of Rockstar so he got Jack to bring this lawsuit so he could get paid to sit on his ass and play Bully for 100 hours.
Read my short stories - You won't regret it.
I was going from the info as available at the time. Destructoid.com hadn't yet updated their website of their on-the-spot coverage to make it clear that Take Two had offered to bring the game in without an order.
Technically the judge did make the order, he just refused to make official, because that would "take too much time". He actually yelled at them for requesting the proper paperwork...
Magic doesn't work in my presence. My power of disbelief is too strong.
He's no dumbass. He has quite a livelihood based on his insane ramblings. He may be evil, but he's no moron.
They don't need to because Midway already has.
----- You know you have ego issues when you register a domain in your name.
Except when mispelling URLs when filing police reports. Oh, and, claiming harassement when people donate money to charity. (I'm sorry, I don't have the links offhand, but you should be able to find them pretty easily)
The ZX Spectrum had two games Skool Daze and a sequel Back to Skool which more or less encapsulate the same ideas found in Bully - disrupting school, punching people, stealing stuff, using a catapault, detention etc. If a certain litigious asshole wants to launch lawsuits, I suggest he start flinging them at the various Spectrum sites that host these "columbine simulators" since Bully is clearly just the spiritual successor to those early pioneers.
I very nearly spat coffee reading that. It's funny because it's true. The irony of Mr. John Bruce Thompson Esq. attacking a game called Bully, using his standard tactics, is rather profound; even more so that it's a game about combating bullies. The cognitive dissonance involved in something like that must be truely epic.
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/18/ 174224
eToyChest is reporting on a response that Running With Scissors (the makers of the ultraviolent game Postal) has released in response to Jack Thompson's latest rantings. From the article:
"There are no missions based on slaughtering innocent bystanders. You play in a detailed environment and are given simple tasks such as buying milk and cashing a paycheck. As in the real world, the player may find weapons in that environment if they seek them. And, just as in the real world, the choice of what to do with those weapons is yours. Misuse results in severe consequences, in Postal you're always held accountable. In our opinion that makes Postal 2 the most politically correct game ever made."
You mean like those pussies in Anthrax did with the "basket of warm puppies" crap? Say it like it is.
Fucking nutless wonders.
Are they going the fix the thing where if the target gets too far behind the anvil, the target somehow magically catches up?
That always used to shit me.
Fuck you, lunatic. Why do the bastard conservatives always have to turn to the "let the accused pay all costs for civil proceedings against him" canard?
The judge is a fucking civil servant and gets a goddamned hefty salary; he should not get a penny more for doing his sworn duty. Somehow it's always the underdog who is expected to pay for everything.
How about the corporate fuckers pay all costs for all the goddamned time they waste for the courts? (Hint: they're too busy screaming, every time a law is proposed that will cost them fifteen cents, "But it will clog up the court system!!!!!" Sooo, let them contribute to funding for new courts. They just don't want court time pissed away on cases where they're the defendants, instead of the plaintiffs.
A new "Pimp My Anvil" mode will allow extensive anvil customization
OOOOh I want the lowered Anvil(TM), all flat and stylin!
THE WORLD IS GOING TO END!!!! eventually.
I have never seen a "public nuisance" law that didn't require the existence of a nuisance as a prerequisite to its enforcement. The game hasn't been released anywhere yet, let alone in Florida, so it cannot be causing a nuisance, public or private.
I just find it hillarious about him complaining about things that dont even happen in the game. People who have played demos of the game say its not even close to what Jack is raging about. YOU ARE NOT A BULLY! Your character stands up to the bullies and defends the weak... what is so wrong about that Jack?
I love to slaughter the english language.
What the heck are you talking about? The parent poster said the judge should bill Thompson for the hundred hours of game play. Thompson is the plaintiff. That means he's the one doing the accusing. He's being a jerk and bringing a lawsuit against Take Two for a matter that really should not be judged in the courts at all. I wholeheartedly agree that the accuser should pay for the costs when his case is shot down. Thompson is the one wasting the court's time; Take Two is simply trying to defend itself.
http://undecidedgames.blogspot.com
It isn't this game or any previous game this or any other developer has made. When I'm standing in the game isle of my local Mega-Lo-Mart and see yet another mother or grandmother buying little Timmy (who's maybe 10) whatever game he wants without bothering to even look at the ESRB rating, it's very clear where the problem lies. The last time I saw this, I felt the need to speak up, so I went over and asked the woman if she knew that this title was rated M, and what that meant. She shrugged and said something to the effect that it's just a game and he plays games. If I'd had the presence of mind I should have, I would have asked her if she also buys little Timmy Hustler magazines simply because they're magazines and he reads magazines. The problem does not lie with the developer, the publisher, the retailer or the ESRB. They do their part to follow the rules, it's parents/guardians who circumvent the checks that are in place. Unless we see some common sense laws that deal with the glaring lack of responsibility of the consumer, we can expect to see more of this illogical blame game. Speaking of that particular game, those who like to blame the 'holier-than-thou right-wingers' seem to be conveniently forgetting names like Lieberman and Clinton. Just as many who see the DMCA for what it is are quick to forget who it was sitting in office when it was allowed to be passed into law.
Judge Ronald Friedman has decided to allow Bully to be sold freely in Florida after the game's release on October 17.
...
After the court session concluded, Jack Thompson told Ars Technica that the proceedings were a travesty. He characterized the judge's viewing of footage as nothing more than a couple of "Take Two operatives" showing the judge everything in the game they wanted him to see. "I may be full of crap about this game, and I may be wrong, and that's fine. But there's such a thing as due process," said Thompson. "And I was denied due process in court today."
Read the Article: