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iPod Has Nothing To Fear From Slow-Starting Zune
narramissic writes, "Looks like Apple's iPod has nothing to fear from Zune this holiday season. In a research note published Tuesday, PiperJaffray senior research analyst Gene Munster writes that 'during its launch week on Nov. 16, Zune held the seventh spot on online retailer Amazon.com's top 10 best-selling MP3 players list, and it fell from that spot to 13 on the list only five days after launch, on Nov. 20.' Even worse, only 8% of retailers surveyed by PiperJaffray recommend the Zune to customers, while 75% recommend Apple's iPod." The article notes Apple's 5-year headstart in the portable player market and Microsoft's stated intention to invest heavily in the Zune over the next several years.
The Zune is brown... Grandpa used to tell me, "No matter how much you polish a turd..." Poor MS hopefully Zune 2.0 ditches DRM, plays all formats and breaks all of the rules iPods live by. Untill then... It's the iPod for me!
Did M$ plan on having a flop out of the gate, planning on 2nd and 3rd generations to really go after the iPod? M$ never gets anything right the first time, so maybe it's not a big deal to them that it flopped?
if it could have squirted ogg, it might have done better.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
Did anybody seriously expect the Zune to gain a lot of market share?
In related news, hydrogen based cars seem unlikely to replace traditional automobiles this year, due to their almost centurylong head start. Sigh. Oh slashdot, how far you have fallen
How many Windows iPods were sold a few weeks after they hit the market?
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
Imagine a beowulf cluster of these!
Unfortunately the Zune seems to offer very little, and the feature that it should be known for takes a LONG time to implement. Sharing a song with another zune is as easy as the path the pinball takes on the sesame street number song.
It takes like a minute to share (squirt) a zune song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpHzQYKDlWU [youtube.com]
The thing I was wondering is this. I do not mind the squirting feature, it seems neat and probably could have been implemented in a more intuitive way (IE have a squirt button instead of traversing 3 menus and a submenu) but the idea itself is "ok." Though I do have a problem with "squirting" a song in reference to a player that looks like it was molded in shit.
So they have some possibilities for cool features! They have wireless... why do they not leverage it in more interesting ways.
As you can see in the video they can see other zune players, in fact it seems incredibly intuitive.
Now lets say that it is true wifi and could probably support 5 or 6 streams coming out of it... why do they not have some kind of "Zune broadcast" feature were people can look at zunes, see what they are broadcasting or who they are listening too, and let people tap into the music that way... maybe even have some sort of re-broadcast peer to peer feature were each zune re-broadcasts what it is playing if someone wants to listen to the same song...
This way if you knew a lot of zune friends you could have them sample the song before you squirt it into their zune... though even talking about the zune and squirting makes me kind of uncomfortable.
Also, since it has wifi, why do they not provide a program that lets your computer do the same thing... IE submit to someones current audio stream.
This is even "better" than bringing an ipod to a club and having them plug it in, you just bring your zune in, start your stream and the DJ could link into it. OR you could go to your house, have your computer plugged into a nice sound system, and have it plug into what your zune is playing, this would allow you to use the zune as sort of a music remote control were you have a nice interface in your hand.
Or it could be used the other way around, the computer could transmit music and the zune could log in and see the music being transmitted... Microsoft even has Media center edition which would be perfect for this kind of thing, or it could be a plug in to their current media player. This way people could come over, log their zunes into your computer network and listen to music rocking down the line.
Maybe internet radio, walk into a wifi cafe, set up your zune, and listen to radio streaming from a remote radio station that is on-line, NPR for example (though you might want to find one to your tastes ofc).
How about wireless synchronization with podcasts? Walk into a wifi area and hit "sync" and have it sync with all the podcasts you are behind on and then tell you which ones you haven't listened to yet.
Maybe they could work with an online video provider similar to youtube and hook up a method to stream user videos to the zune in an easy fashion, something that would nearly be a killer app for anything.
Imagine a youtube branded mediaplayer with wireless access (maybe even work with phone companies for EVDO support) were someone could log into youtube and download youtube videos right to their phone.
I mean, the possibilities are ENDLESS and OBVIOUS. You merely have to think "man what would I love to do with a wireless capable player that can be locked into a major brand and legally buy music for" etc... and it seems Microsoft chose one interesting feature to focus on and implement poorly (squirting) and then made it so that the player broke every compatibility rule that you can think of, and made a SONY mistake were it changes format and requires that you re-purchase to play.
In the end you have to ask yourself "WTF"
and note, all of this is without the criticism of making blood contracts with record companies etc... it is saying "here are the things you made me hope you would provide, then you provided... this"
If you don't vote, you don't matter, so don't waste your time telling me your opinion
The iPod has remained relativley the same across all releases. It still does then what it does now. It still works in generally the same way.
If Microsoft wants to touch that, they need an interface most people understand and prefer to the iPod, and they need to STICK TO IT. Ease of use and knowing the tricks to an iPod are part of what keeps people buying them again and again. Knowing Microsoft every revision of the hardware will be wildly different from the last, breaking any device-bound loyalty people have.
Somebody posted this in a previous Slashdot story, I thought it was worth repeating:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=T10L9ybstps
Basically it ends up being an advertisement for the new iPod shuffle. Interesting to see how "the masses" are reacting to the Zune.
~ roscivs
Over the years, Microsoft has launched many products. Some of them have been complete duds. On the other hand, some of them have been not-as-good-as-the-competition when they launched but they ended up killing the competition anyway. Remember Lotus-123 and WordPerfect? Both were market leaders and were better than the first versions of their Microsoft equivalents.
Looks like Apple's iPod has nothing to fear from Zune this holiday season. In a research note published Tuesday, PiperJaffray senior research analyst Gene Munster writes that 'during its launch week on Nov. 16
Yes, the report went something like: "No iTunes. Less space than a nomad. Lame."
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
There's the pink Zune and there's the ... ahem ... brown one reviewed here (slashdot's explicit URL printout gives it away though :-))
One of the Microsoft Zune people was talking about the company's original plans for the product on one of the company discussion/bitch boards a few months ago. He stated that the originally the Zune was going to be funded/subsidized with 360 money but that plan went up in smoke with the mess the 360 turned out to be - the massive extra cost for all the defective consoles and the low sales of the console(worse than the first Xbox).
He indicated that the profits from the 360 were supposed to give used to undercut Apple's iPod prices by a significant amount. But that the continue massive Xbox losses made the Zune come out at a higher price than originally intended. And that the days of Microsoft just throwing billions away to gain marketshare were over.
Let me preface this by saying that I am actually a fan of Apple and I hope that I am dead wrong on this. But look what they did with the XBox, Web Servers, and Browser. Microsoft always tends to start slow with a crappy product and take heavy losses. Over time, they'll leverage Vista and everything else they can to turn the Zune into a household name. Apple is in a good position at the moment, but all it takes is one mistake.
In my opinion, Sony screwed the pooch with the PS-3 and MS took advantage of it. With the war chest they have, they do not need a better product. They only need to be able to win a war of attrition.
I blame it on Microsoft's alienation of the all-important Hebrew-speaking market.
The last time I checked the Zune was at #96 and at risk of completely falling of the top 100 Amazon list.
5 1549011/ref=pd_ts_pg_4/103-2463489-7006241?ie=UTF8 &pg=4
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/
But remember the Netscape vs. IE. Al last IE got the market. Not a good product but has more than 85% share.
Could MS do the same with Zune?
The thing is just plain ugly. Aside from the technical concerns (DRM, extremely limited wi-fi, sideways viewing) just look at it: brown, gray, or dull black. And it's blockier than even the 1G iPod.
As superficial as it sounds, Apple has right idea for a big seller: make it shiny, make it smooth.
with drm squirting "back and forth" Zune ))<>(( Zune.
I had every intention of flaming you, but you are right. These sales figures show that it took over a year for iPod to really take off.
an ill wind that blows no good
This product doesn't exist to make a profit for Microsoft. They're not expecting to beat Apple just yet.
What they're going to have, is a proof that Microsoft is a contender in the mp3 player market. This is just a very expensive piece of marketting for their next generation player.
What about the console that lost 4 billion?
I wandered in to Radio Shack the weekend before Thanksgiving, and the salesperson there was trying his best to push the Zune on me, even though I told him I already had an iPod and was looking at the iPod accessories. All he had to say positive about it though was that the audio quality was "pretty good".
Zune, meet Bob. Bob, meet Zune.
My 1983 Walkman has nothing to fear from Zune!
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
...until Microsoft decides to "suck all the air out of the room" (i.e., buy up all of the shelf space in stores), just as they have done with their software products in the past.
People buy from the front shelves, not the bottom shelf in the back.
Apple will have a chance to have wifi and FM tuner for the next ipod. If they do it, they can thank MS for the ideas
Firefox Power http://firefoxpower.blogspot.com/
O no! I got the Zune Squirts!!!! Here all this time I thought IBS was caused by eating McDonalds!
Like I said before, you can't compare the markets directly for a number of reasons, but you shouldn't count out a company that has a seemingly infinite warchest and is willing to spend it to strong-arm their way into whatever market they'd like.
Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
The WiFi could be a killer feature if it didn't suck, but it does, which means no squirting, which means there's really no fucking point to even having it.Yeah, cause of course, they're not going to add any features in future firmware updates that would make more use of the WiFi.
Except it will most definitely happen. Will people still be bashing the WiFi a year down the line when, say, you can wirelessly sync with your PC, have your friends all grabbing your music stream on their Zunes so you're all listening to the same thing at the same time, grab songs from WiFi kiosks at a concert or a music store, etc? The key is getting the WiFi in the Zune and working at launch - and enhancing the functionality in the future.
Is it fair to say that the current limited set of WiFi functionality isn't that impressive, and isn't enough to justify buying one at this point? Yes, it is. Is it fair to say that it wasn't worth putting it in there just because of how it's being used at launch? Hell no.
"You know your god is man-made when he hates all the same people you do."
I can see the chairs flying... not a pretty music.
In the simplest terms, the Zune will not be receiving the best response from the merchants who might be pushing it during this holiday season.
a) These merchants all have 100's of iPod Accessories. The nature of this is that if you sell a 299 dollar IPod, it will also create the sale of some other device, perhaps a speaker system or a nice little protective wallet, or some addon. Even if they would work fine with the Zune, the packaging all says 'iPod'.
b) No impulse upgrade available. Someone comes in for a 30 gig iPod and may be talked up to a 60. The shuffle buyer ends up with a Nano. Maybe the Nano buyer ends up with a video iPod.
c) The Zune is a new product from Microsoft. To most vendors that implies support issues. The worst thing for them would be to have to deal with returns. Microsoft waiting till this close to Christmas is probably to try to get enough of these into the market before the inevitable bug/virus/hardware issue comes up. They would prefer to fix it after Christmas to see big numbers.
d) Grandma buys the Zune for her kid because a salesperson said 'its like the iPod but better!' and the kid returns the Zune for store credit to get their iPod.
Basicly the profit margin can NOT be high enough to sell this at this stage. The question is WHEN.
---
I will not propose any suggestions of how they could improve things. Clearly the fact that they have a wifi and fm radio in the box and an upgradeable firmware/software means they could improve these gradually. But the fact that they came so strongly with DRM that even makes my recording of my sister's karaoke performance self destruct ala mission impossible, does not bode well to the idea of a flexible portable mobile media center.
The fact is that Microsoft should be big enough player to dictate to the RIAA how things are going to be rather than the other way around. Even Apple, substantially smaller, bullied them effectively.
I haven't tried the Zune, but i also didn't buy an iPod until the Nano came out, and since I can fit my Nano in my shirt pocket and forget it is there, I don't see any comparison to Microsoft's offering.
If these are the people that Microsoft is relying on to sell the Zune to the masses, they are seriously outgunned by the hordes of iPod lovers.
They have a (semi-?)annual "Wishlist" promo, where you can pick up cool stuff for cheap prices by madly clicking on a flash graphic and being one of the lucky first n people. Sharp 37" HD AQUOS(R) Flat Panel LCD TV for $900, 2007 Porsche Cayman Coupe for $5,000 and so on. Anyway, the Zune is one of the offers this year. Think it was up for 150 bucks. I still don't find it appealing. Picked up a 60G Zen on eBay for not much more than that many months ago, and it still seems better.
Haida Manga
Sure, the Ipod is easy to use, but it is also boring. It's a white box, how innovative is that? And they act like they have made fire.Since when has fire been any more exciting? For starters, it's an incredibly dated technology. It doesn't do anything for me that I can't accomplish with a flashlight or space heater. I mean, sure, it's hot and red (red hot even?) but how innovative is that? And my cavemen neighbors act like they have made sliced bread.
Sigs are for suckers.
What real advantages does Zune really provide over the 5.5 generation iPod? Basically none. I went to Staples to check out a Zune and it is nearly twice as big as the iPod 30 GB and atleast $20 - $30 costlier. The wireless sharing capability is the only big feature but also cannot be used until the people I know have a Zune. And that too is a let down because you can't keep music for more than three days. It is similiar to the problem Sony is facing against XBox 360. Its new, doesn't have as many games as the 360 and way much costlier. Gee, I'd rather go for the 360.
Help a man when he is in trouble and he will remember you when he is in trouble again.
Well, it's difficult to compare the iPod and Zune launch, because the first batch of iPods were Mac-only. This limited their possible sales to a relatively small number of units, compared to later on when they really took off. At first, a lot of people saw iPods as a way to get people to buy Macintosh computers (and I know some people that were nudged in this direction), and I knew some diehards when it was first released that absolutely refused to acknowledge the possibility of an iPod as a product in its own right, separate from the Macintosh platform.
With the exception of our own CmdrTaco, the market was a lot less hostile to the iPod when it was originally released than they're being to the Zune.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
And then talk about loving the iPod.
Pot --> Kettle --> Black
iTunes anyone?
I think it's because Apple gives us what the majority of us want. They give you a product that's easy to use and consistent. Microsoft has never been able to grasp this concept. It may not do absolutely everything under the sun, but I'm pretty certain the majority of people couldn't care less. You see the same problem with current mobile phones, and that's why people have been waiting to see if Apple would enter that market as well.
What do Mac users have to do with it? The vast majority of iPod owners are using Windows.
... and then they built the supercollider.
I read someone else's impressions of it and went to Best Buy and have to mostly agree with what he says.
I too felt that the Zune felt cheap and the button interface left much to be desired. Like the reviewer, I too own an iPod.
We're all hypocrites. We all have hidden parts, it's the contrast between them that make us more a hypocrite than others
...predictions seem very much like facts.
On the go alot? Don't care if you have massive quantities of albums with you at all times?
Get a Rio Carbon! I've had my 5-gigger for roughly 3 years now. I used to use it when working on cars (I was a professional mechanic) dropped it upwards of 20-30 times. Thing still works PERFECTLY. Drag-and-drop, no software required. Hooks up using a standard mini-USB cable, 20 hours on one charge, can also be used out of the box as a portable hard drive...small as shit. Easily controlled using one thumb, MUCH faster interface than the clumsy "touch-ring" Ipod.
On the road alot? Still want those 20gigs?
Get a Rio Karma! Same easy to use interface as a Carbon, COMES with a docking station that A. Has USB 2.0 and Ethernet hookups (so you can hook it directly into your network, turning it into a digital jukebox) and B. Has RCA line-outs so you can hook it up directly to your stereo. Have had mine for about 2.5 years, works perfect, looks fantastic, and fits inside the palm of your hand (i.e. won't overlap the base of your fingers...yes I know not all hands are equal size, but my hands are fairly small)
Oh and did I mention? Both the Carbon AND the Karma can play nearly any audio format!
Seriously. I never understood the whole Ipod thing. To me, they have always been and always will be overpriced "look at me" gadgets designed for a generation too stupid to know that no matter how much reflective plastic you cover shit with, it is still shit.
Living With a Nerd
Well then, it's a good thing I didn't say that.
I said it's not worth having. Not that it's not worth putting in, it's not worth having. I can recap this again if it will help. Microsoft SHOULD have put in useful features. However, I do not share your optimism. Will Microsoft add additional WiFi capabilities? Yes. Will they be as crippled as the features they have now, for example being able to share music but it only lasts for three days or three plays? Also yes.
Can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I guess your right, the vast majority of people are sheep, regardless of platform. But it has been my experience that nowhere else on earth is this more prevalent, than in a Mac store.
If you're going to try to flame the Zune, you might consider excluding your bigotry if you wish to be effective.
While nothing is for everyone, there is nothing wrong with being brown nor is there anything wrong with being gay.
I've grown fond of Ubuntu which has its share of brown.
If early comments I've heard are any indication, most gays will yawn and walk on by the Zune.
The operative put-down word you used wasn't "brown", nor was it "gay".
Clue: Your post was so..... Zune.
Personally, I think the zune is a superior product to the Ipod. Not being taken in by the 'something-new' placebo, I simply like it. The Zune handles pictures better than the Ipod. Likewise with movies with the horizontal orientation. The menu system was much easier to figure out and isn't a PITA to work with opposed to the clickwheel which is more-so oversensitive than being useful for scrolling through large song lists. The Zune will start slow because it will take a while for people to get their heads OFF of the Ipod and to see the Zune for what it is. The IPOD was slow because of it's price... when people saw their friends with one and realized what a product it was, then it took off. I say likewise with the Zune. My problem is that "Zune" is too close to "Zen"...
I got it the first time... "Me and You and Everyone We Know" - good stuff.
---GEC
I'm but the humble pupil, seeking to snatch the scratchbuilt pebble from the master's fully articulated hand
Somehow, I expect Vista to go the same way.
Athiesm is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
(to the tune of Rudolph)
Billy the software mogul
Had a really dorky 'box
and if you ever saw it
you would even say it sucked.
All of the jukebox makers
used to laugh and call him names
They wouldn't let rich Billy
in their music player games.
Then one foggy Christmas Eve
customers came to say,
BIlly with your box so bright
we got to find some gift tonight.
Then how the retailers love him
Accountants shouted out with glee
Billy the software mogul
You'll go down in history.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
I have had multiple Sony MiniDisc players - they have been improved over the years (higher capacity, Walkman-like waterproofing, still more capacity) but have never taken off. Why? One likely reason is that Sony made the format proprietary and encumbered so heavily that whatever benefit it provided in convenience couldn't keep up with the encumbrance. Microsoft has the Zune, and it has many of the same problems (they fragged their partners to create a player that wouldn't play the ironically named "PlaysforSure" standard, the wireless feature encumbered by DRM to make it almost useless, inability to use the player for storage, etc.). While I'm sure MS can improve the usability of the Zune, they can't allow people to do what they wish with it (because doing so would compromise the support of the music studios and might interfere with MS's DRM implementations) and MS's previous behavior doesn't lead one to believe they would support their customers well enough to make compiling music in whatever format Zune uses worthwhile.
You can make using a device nice and easy, but if you can't do what you want with it then it is dear at half the price. When a better option(s) exists, people are unwilling to buy what someone wants to sell them in preference to what they actually wish to buy and use. While MS has in the past tried to constrain others from selling what its customers want if it isn't what MS wants to sell, MS can't do that here because what people want (and not what MS makes) is driving the market. I don't see a way that MS can make the Zune make sense for users without losing the support of the studio and its own DRM people, and so I can't see how the Zune would sell even if it's made usable.
What I want to know about that YouTube video is where it was made.
The screen shows at least six other Zunes nearby.
Is there any place in the universe other than the Microsoft campus that has over six Zunes within range of each other as of November 2006?
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Well that's no surprise - have you seen the reviews on Amazon? . I'm not sure I'd buy a product like that given that most of the reviews are so negative.
Even Paul 'WinSuperSite' Thurrott thinks it's a disaster :
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/zune.asp
What amazes me is that they managed to get so many things wrong on the software side of it, even when the hardware is quite decent. But there's nothing quite like the stupidity of a committee, maybe the software design process was something akin to that used for Vista.
In the IT world, the biggest sheep would have to be corporate IT, where anything Microsoft is good - and they will go to great lengths to prevent users from making any other choices. They will even institute policies to ban other platforms and applications. I've yet to see places that use Macs implement such conformist policies.
... and then they built the supercollider.
Zune is garbage. The hardware is middling at best. The PC software sucks. The music store sucks.
If any other company released this thing, nobody would have noticed. It would be another piece of made in China electronic garbage. MS releases it and it gets loads of free publicity. Still a dud.
"oooh, but the 3rd gen MS product is when it really gets good," people say. Yeah right. Bob, forgotten. MSNBC, irrelevant. Microsoft Money, still irrelevant compared to Quicken. MS will send Zune to the trash heap with Bob. If Zune is lucky, bits of it will survive, just like Clippy survived from Bob. Wow, some innovation that was.
Even all the free publicity cannot overcome the Zune's absolute crappiness.
Penny - plain text accounting
Zune's slow start was predictable in July. :)
y =zune_meme_rerun
I know that because I predicted it.
http://www.realmeme.com/roller/page/realmeme?entr
The link includes an updated diagram of my methodology.
{Gothic white girls are the most beautiful women on earth.}
Ew. Every "Goth" I've met was some self-centered whiner who hated their life bad enough to want to be someone else, ie, their "goth persona". Take away the whiteface makeup and crappy "everything sucks" attitude, and you've got an everyday average person who can't handle being an everyday average person.
Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
a) some enterprising soul hacks it to run linux
or
b) M$ makes it available with a real hard drive (i.e. > 80 gb)
or
c) ideally, both a & b
Personally I've never been a big fan of the iPod or Apple for that matter, but judging from what I've seen of and read about the Zune I don't think iPod sales will feel even the most minute ripple from this turd of marketing 'genius'. Way to go Microsoft...
Sure, just try finding anybody outside of the /. readership that has the faintest idea what OGG (Vorbis or Theora, it's more fun if you name them by their codecs instead of the container) is.
Funny how the above might be interpreted as common sense.
Why is it that the cheapest and best sounding routine is the least used? You would think that a free market would grab it and promote it. The answer is that the market is not free and that the major players are a bunch of asses who want to promote their own little format at the cost of everyone else. WMA, the worst of the bunch, is paradoxically the most common format on players. Sony has their ATRAC and Apple has their AAC. MP3 is available to all for a slight fee. OGG is free for the taking yet few use it. How backward.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
If early comments I've heard are any indication, most gays will yawn and walk on by the Zune.
'Tis true...there's no brown in their flag.
$30 Off All Plans: Use code TRIPLESAWBUCK
I think the key is in universal use. Going back to the post I made that everyone drags up when there's anything to do with iPods, the first generation of the iPod didn't have a very large target audience - but as time progressed Apple made it available to virtually everyone, both technilogically and financially. They already had the aspect of 'easy to use' figured out.
Perhaps Microsoft's Zune is affordable, widely usable, and easy to use. What's left is making it play more file types and provide more services. Of course, the iPod could too, but it's miles ahead of the selection the Zune offers.
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
Really?
Apart from "squirting" your friends for three plays?
-ted
The reason they probably don't yet stream music is because they've not yet solved the WiFi buzz (audio noise) you get from enabling wireless on a Zune...
Read about it on a blog that listed the top ten ways Microsoft could improve the Zune.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
What?
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
How hard can it be to produce a decent player, really?
The market in portable MP3 players has been around for a fair few years now. The iPod runs the show because it does what Most People want to do, in a nice friendly way, and is brilliantly marketed. There are a thousand and one players on the market for Everybody Else, which offer more functionality, better sound quality, less DRM restrictions, lower price, whatever. Pretty much every single one of these competitors is deficient on the usability front, and most of them have some head-slappingly bad UI howlers that make you wonder just what the hell they were thinking when they designed it, or indeed whether they were thinking at all.
And then, having had years to learn from everybody else, good and bad, Microsoft rocks up with the Zune. Oops.
Why can't they, and everybody else, understand what makes for a good portable music player? Why do they give Apple such an easy ride? The iPod really isn't any great shakes, it's just that the competition is mostly rotten. With each revison Apple have done just enough to keep half a step ahead - for example, the rather fudged implementation of gapless playback that finally arrived with the last updates took away one of the main reasons why I personally wouldn't buy one (seriously, folks, if there's no gaps between the tracks on the CD, and your player puts them in, that is a bug. Fix it. And yes, I know MP3s can't really do true gapless).
Really, Apple's market dominance is there for the taking. All it takes is a bit of application. Why can't anybody come up with the goods?
Is it just me or do these comments just STINK of a lame attempt by Microsoft to astroturf?
Someone should post a photo of Bob listening to a Zune.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=294929001& context=set-72157594292367584&size=o
s hot_of_.html
Via boingboing
http://www.boingboing.net/2006/11/14/weird_screen
My amazing wife - Artist, Author, Philosopher - Laurie M
Microsoft calls it "Soviet Brown"
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
The Zune hardware is not too bad. Some reviews have actually said it's really pretty good. The problem is that you don't try to take on the market leader with a device that is about as good for the same price. Esp if it's larger, heavier, and has less battery. The biggest "cool factor", the WiFi isn't even remotely useful until there is a critical mass of Zune in the wild. If you want to squirt stuff from your Zune you have to find someone else who has one.
But it's not flying off the shelves. It's NOT EVEN ON some shelves. It will fall off the Amazon top 100 in the next few days. The iPod is 5 or 6 of the Amazon top ten electronics sellers. The #1 at Amazon has firmly been an iPod for weeks. (Zune was #94 last I checked)
And Microsoft has done everything right. They were able to convince the entire non-iPod MP3 player industry to adopt Plays-For-Sure so they could all be put out of Microsofts way at once and they STILL can't outsell Creative's player.
Would you do business with them after they lured you into Plays-For-Sure?
They were carefull to pay off the RIAA through Universal Music for each Zune sold. The RIAA gets their money when you pay at the cash register. That way people can know they are doing the right thing.
Everyone who wants to send a buck to the RIAA by buying a Zune raise your hand!
They did a lot of focus groups and their ads had the right mix of Black, White, Asian, women, men, young, and old in their "Welcome to the Social" ads which feature some kind of music player. Did their ads really inform anybody about the Zune? Why I want one instead of an iPod?
They carefully came up with a misleading "points" scheme to cloud how much a song costs and to force consumers to leave a few cents on the table for each purchase. This is sure to appeal to the average buyer.
The only one who deserves a Brown Zune for Christmas is Bill Gates.
the zune's been dismantled already and pictures posted at http://www.bunniestudios.com/wordpress/?p=131
so, since it's an arm processor from freescale and is thus a well known platform, how long till linux is made to run on it? can't be too long?
I'm particularly interested in the wifi protocol, so as to be able to capture songs squirted from zune on a non-zune device, and/or break into a zune and acquire all its contents without the zune being aware of it!
MP3 players existed before the iPod and they were *commodity hardware* no less. Apple said "Screw that, this is a style item, not a pocket radio", and made the MP3 player *cool*, then charged a couple hundred dollars more than the Asian consumer electronics giants were charging. And proceeded to beat the living who-hah out of them. (The original iPod was $400 back in 2001. The Nomad Jukebox, which also had a hard drive, sold for about $250. Ever heard of it? Me neither. There were dozens of flash-based MP3 players, all capping at $250. Some of the popular models were in the $160 range.)
i ons/2100-1040_3-274821.html for a blast from the past.
See generally http://news.com.com/Apples+iPod+spurs+mixed+react
So here is the problem for Zune: there was a "portable MP3 player market". It was tiny. There is still a "portable MP3 player market", and its still tiny. And then there is an iPod market. Apple owns the concept like Nintendo used to own "video game console" (come on, how many of you have mothers who said that the Playstation was "The new Nintendo?").
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
I think the example that best aligns to this, is the mobile windows and the smart phones. Anyone remember the first version of the smartphone? Boy was that poor. but look at it now. I think what needs to be looked at, is look at the reviews for the Zune, yet it STILL is outselling many other MP3 players! this is a v1, and there will be plenty more.
can't be wrong!
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Considering that the name "Zune" translates to "FUCK" in Hebrew... Not joking. http://herenot.livejournal.com/29371.html
My experience has been the opposite to yours. Mac people refuse to coexist with a PC platform. Insisting, like a stereotypical Mercedes driving prick, "But, It's not a Macintosh, I refuse to work with it, buy me a Macintosh" In which case IT spends 2x the cost to buy them a comperable Mac. All of the places I have worked have been PC places, tolerate Macs very well, even though they are maybe 100 out of 1500 computers. The only MS products they use are Windows and Active Directory and MS Office. I don't think I am being biased towards Mac stores or their users. For one thing, I own a Mac. And when something goes wrong, the solutions I have gotten from the Genius bar are, 1. It's broke, buy a new one. 2. It's under warranty, we'll replace it. And you have to wait 30 minutes inline to get that? Why? The reason why Apple users don't have to make policies to ban other applications and platforms, is that there are no applications, or to the extent that their are with a PC. Alot of the programs that exsist for mac that are used, are either made by Apple or Adobe, and no alternative. Plus PC's, by virtue of being the most widely used platform are more vunerable to virus's, so the need to restrict users to certain softwares is more needed. I don't know where all these "smart" dedicated Mac users are. Cause any reasoning I have heard from a Mac user to use a Mac product is solely based on the "shiny" aspect. 99% of them that I have come across, have a hard time learning how to make a power point, or can't figure out why the internet doesn't work.. because they didn't know that cable thingy in the back had to be plugged in. I know the OS is pretty stable, but I have more problems with a Mac than I have ever had with a PC. I have "Black Screened" Macs so many times. I think I have Blue Screened Xp, once? Maybe. Anytime I have a probelm with a Mac, the solution is 9 outta 10, reinstall the OS. I have never reinstalled the OS to fix a PC problem. That being said, I hope to install OSX on the new PC I build, just for giggles.
It could be that the people likely to spend $200+ on an MP3 player already have. And once you decide on your brand of MP3 player you get locked into that ecosystem (plays for sure/Fair Play). Even if your looking to upgrade your not going to want to loose all your music. It will be interesting to see if the market place will even tolerate what is essentially 3 type of audio. But don't count Microsoft out they have nearly unlimited cash and almost every marked they dominate today they entered late and up against a very well entrenched foe.
Apple beat them to the desktop computer and the GUI OS
Novel beat them to the Network Server OS
Lotus and WP beat them to the Word Processor and Office Suite
Netscape beat them to the Web Browser
Apple and then Palm beat them to the PDA
In all of these areas they were at a huge disadvantage and yet now are the undisputed leaders. So far it looks like only Google has been able to hold them off when Microsoft decides they want to enter an industry. Never underestimate what Billions of dollars and mindless determination will get you.
Of course we will have to wait until the 3rd Gen Zune before they iPod has to really worry
I keep wanting to say: It's the design, stupid (also the DRM, but we'll ignore that here...) Microsoft doesn't get proper design, like on an organizational level - thus I think, at least in the short term the Zune is destined to fail from a marketing / product ecosystem perspective. A) It doesn't align product design-wise with any other products they've got (the iPod design fits in with all of the other parts of Apples' product ecosystem - think of how similar it is to the look and feel of an iMac). B) The interface seems to be a one-off rather than be consistent with the software on their other platforms Windows Media Player, XBOX, etc C) It doesn't even WORK with Windows Media Player, which is just retarded D) They simply haven't considered the overall user-experience - apparently even installs haven't been working (having to make custom DLLs etc.)
The user experience, product design, and integration into product ecosystem are almost the ONLY things that matter when you're essentially marketing a commodity MP3 player... total idiots.
Try again.
--
I'm lovin' it
What about the Creative Zen Vision? Of all things, I think the Creative Zen would be the best competitor with the Ipod. The Zune introduces that cool little music sharing capabilities, but the thing is, who is actually gonna use it? You can only listen to it a few times before the file goes bunk. Harsh truth is that a lot of the gadgets and techies who are going to be the first to buy the latest, probably aren't going to be caring much about copyrights and such. The only use the music sharing capabilities will bring to them is maybe a preview before they get frustrated and download the song.
You are crazy.
Netscape - A single product company (web server + browser) driven into the dirt because MS gave away a competing product free with windows.
WordPerfect, Lotus 1-2-3 - both companies foolishly refused to provide Windows versions of their products, meanwhile MS made equivalent products that did support Windows, ultimately bundling them together as Office.
These scenarios are not even remotely analogous to ipod vs Zune unless you are suggesting that Microsoft are going to resort to giving Zunes away for free in breakfast cereal boxes. Even then I very much doubt people would start using them.
"You can't fight in here, this is the war room!"
stinky or bipedal
I have a Zune, and it is much easier to use than an iPod
Curiously enough, they did not do the things in the famous "MS redesigns the iPod packaging" video but tried to pull of the same coolness look the iPod package has :-)
I reckon they'll add lots more functionality through updates, but there are a few things to consider -
- why didn't they add the obvious things in the first release? Everyone seems to expect wireless syncing with the PC, and this is such a basic thing. Why wasn't it in there on day one?
- a poor first release will stay in people's minds long after the issues are fixed. People still remember the BSODs even though we don't see them any longer. Why make such a poor first impression?
The Zune has a lot of promise, but I don't see Microsoft as the company to fulfil that promise. They're too close to the media companies, as the $1 piracy fee to Universal shows.
The DRM addition that you are talking about happens when you send a song from one Zune to another through wi-fi (which iPod cannot do at all)..
While you cannot do that wirelessly, you can simply mount an iPod as a disk and copy off what you like - either the whole collection, names to be sorted out later (tags are embedded in the files) or use one of a number of simple utilities to determine names of songs and copy those.
Your choice, buy a device that limits what you can share to the degree there is no sharing - or buy a hard drive that you can store anything on and also has nice management software for music files.
Oh, and one of these devices lets you freely choose an OS to use and still have the device be fully functional - including Linux.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You must have some pretty non-standard experiences with Mac users. Macs have been co-existing for years in networks dominated by Windows. Graphic designers using Macs, for example, do their design work on a Mac, but often use a Windows machine to do the RIP to a printer or imagesetter. Macs implemented interoperability with Windows file-systems a long time ago. Windows has still not implemented interoperability with Mac file systems.
Mac users have been using Virtual PC for years, and these days also run Windows via dual-boot or virtualization.
"But, It's not a Macintosh, I refuse to work with it, buy me a Macintosh" In which case IT spends 2x the cost to buy them a comperable Mac.
I think you're getting that wrong. Many prefer to work with a Mac, but don't just demand a Mac, because it is a Mac. It's because in many fields, the Mac is a more efficient platform to work with.
It's not true that Macs cost twice as much. they are around the same price as Windows machines. But if you are using a Windows machine for certain tasks, the extra costs to productivity of not using a Mac, are much more than the trivial difference in hardware cost.
All of the places I have worked have been PC places, tolerate Macs very well, even though they are maybe 100 out of 1500 computers.
That is not historically typical. Many workplaces went on vendettas against Macs. Although today, things are a lot better, and there is less hostility.
For one thing, I own a Mac. And when something goes wrong, the solutions I have gotten from the Genius bar are, 1. It's broke, buy a new one. 2. It's under warranty, we'll replace it. And you have to wait 30 minutes inline to get that? Why?
What does that have to be with Mac users being sheep? The quality of support at the "genius bar" has no relevance to the sheepishness of the users.
The reason why Apple users don't have to make policies to ban other applications and platforms, is that there are no applications, or to the extent that their are with a PC.
That doesn't make any sense. There are tons of applications for the Mac - and there are many which are not available for Windows, or have not been in the past.
Plus PC's, by virtue of being the most widely used platform are more vunerable to virus's, so the need to restrict users to certain softwares is more needed.
Windows isn't more vulnerable to viruses because it is the most widely used platform. It's more vulnerable because it is full of security holes, and Microsoft is very lazy when it comes to fixing these problems.
I don't know where all these "smart" dedicated Mac users are. Cause any reasoning I have heard from a Mac user to use a Mac product is solely based on the "shiny" aspect.
You are obviously pretty ignorant. Very few people use Macs because they are "shiny." In fact, when Apple allowed other companies to make clones, many users switched to those clones, which were much more boring-looking than the Apple machines. Most use Macs because they are more productive on that platform, and appreciate the innovative OS and applications. The Mac has a history of trail-blazing software that changes industries - not "sheep" thinking. When Photoshop and desktop publishing were set alight on the Mac, the sheep were saying that digital publishing and photo editing would never take off. When the Mac innovated with the WIMP GUI, the sheep were saying that "real computers" used a command-line, not a mouse and windows.
I have "Black Screened" Macs so many times. I think I have Blue Screened Xp, once? Maybe. Anytime I have a probelm with a Mac, the solution is 9 outta 10, reinstall the OS. I have never reinstalled the OS to fix a PC problem.
You must be pretty new to computers. All of your comments seem to imply that you have only experienced computing in recent years, and are not aware of h
... and then they built the supercollider.
It's already pretty well understood that the hardware and legal limitations of the Zune are early shortcomings. However, I happen to think that one of its bigger shortcomings is not the player, but the advertising for it.
I've seen only one commercial for the Zune, and it was the first time I wanted a refund of my time for a commercial. All I can remember was a dog wagging its tail and the owner asking it to go outside. The Zune was never shown. As a matter of fact, I cannot really recall any advertisement where the Zune was displayed. I mean, after looking at a commercial like that, it just begs the question of WHY? Did the owner want to go outside to get a Zune? Did its dog see one and get excited about it, thus sparking a reaction from the owner to chase it or something? If I have to do a close analysis of a 30-second or less commercial, what would make me or anyone want to research further into the product, let alone buy it? The "let's-get-lots-of-interest-by-being-enigmatic" strategy for marketing and advertisement only works for ideas and philosophies, in my opinion.
Let me not even get started on what they think is "welcoming the social." I think that seeing some random Spanish (?) girl looking like she has other intentions with something cylindrical or an Asian girl seemingly fornicating (this can be looked at in so many different angles) makes me wonder what "social" I really want to be a part of. Using the verb "to squirt" to describe sending music or data doesn't help the situation either. Developers, developers, developers.
Plus, it's not like Microsoft hasn't made cool advertising before. Its advertisements for Office have been pretty interesting, and so was its commercial for Windows Vista while it was still in beta. Why couldn't they do this with the Zune? Were they afraid that the RIAA would come down on them if they played a song or anything related to music?
To be fair, when the iPod was first launched, I don't remember the advertisements for it exactly but I think they centered around the same theme that Apple uses today: showing people using iPod to listen to music. They showed people dancing, jumping, freaking out, going crazy, and doing all sorts of things that have to deal with the enjoyment of listening to music. Hell, when I saw those ads I wanted to dance. Plus, the white iPod looked really cool in them. No wonder it became a chic item to have. Hell, just for kicks Microsoft could have creative around this idea. Why didn't they?
The problem is Apple is not sitting still, it's rumored to be sitting on a full-screen iPod propably to be released alongside the iTV. Not to mention the possibility of an iPhone! Sure those are all rumors but you know Apple is doing something - that's what Apple does. And that something will probably involve in some way a screen that matches at least the current ITMS video resolution, 640x480 (both the Zune and the current iPod are half that, even though the Zune screen is physically larger).
By the time people get thier head around "what the Zune is" the market and the products in it may well have moved significantly forward. And a part of the problem is that word of mouth is not that great so far - you may like it but many do not seem to. The sales are indicitive of that, they would be slowly growing if indeed most people liked the players.
I also still really prefer the clickwheel for faster navigation, once you get used to it the benefit is the tremendous speed at which you can move through a large list. A lttle touchy perhaps but there is no ramp-up delay to start moving quickly within a list.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The reason Apple impresses us all is that they make devices so nice to use, that even people that claim to hate them buy them. You own one after all...
Also that the devices tend to have a lot of technical depth but hide it behind a refined interface - poke around for alternate iPod management software if you want to have more control over what happens. They have moved beyond the "Cool, I can add my own graphics" that a lot of us loved at one time and have moved into the "thank god I don't have to mess with it to use it fully'.
It's like the recent story about the Microsoft shutdown menu. Like you, they thought more choices were better but really they are not. Apple is very good at folding choices into as few choices as possible.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I felt bad about not actually posting a link before, here's the blog I was referring to, he talked about it as the "WiFi Sizzle". It's from CNet so it has a little more credibility than "random blog"...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
This is a sincere question, not a troll: What's the appeal of the iPod in the first place?
I'm 40 years old, so it goes without saying that I'm completely uncool, out of touch, etc... but I don't get it.
I bought my wife a little Sony MP3 player for roughly $100. It does pretty much everything that an iPod does, at half the price but with less "style". So why do people pay the premium for an iPod? Just to look cool? Or is there something truly unique about the iPod that I don't understand. I mean it's basically a CF card hooked to a D-A converter with a bit of software glue, right? What magic does Apple add that makes the iPod so appealing?
The most rabid believers in American Exceptionalism are the exact same people whose policies are destroying it.
The Zune will start slow because it will take a while for people to get their heads OFF of the Ipod and to see the Zune for what it is. ... an oversized Gigabeat S that costs $40 more for fewer features?
Just watch out for the 1984 edition. Trust Me.
Looks like these poor sods have got squirted on already : Zune Scene Support
A particularly ironic post is from one named 'zuneipodkiller' who pleads for someone to help get the software installed.
I'll give the Zune credit, the player's actual on-screen interface is very pretty looking, but I was pretty displeased by the button navigation (read: the wannabe scroll-wheel). Also WMP is nowhere near as slick as iTunes is, though WMP11 seems to be heading in the right direction. Also the whole wireless sharing system seemed neat at first, but just seems like a dumb gimmick with the DRM.
My other gripe with pretty much all current portable audio players is lack of freedom with your music. Most players only support a handful of formats, where preferably they could play all available formats. Also I'd like to see an online music store that offers music in a lossless or high quality format or even a variety of different formats. This is all aside from the obvious DRM issues encountered with the music industry the way it is today.
So there's my critique of sorts of the state of portable audio players and online music stores.
Once again, Zune is NOT a product. Zune is a massive testbed for DRM that MS is examining at the behest of the music industry for subsequent inclusion in Vista.
A lot of people have talked about iPod's prevelance in commercial culture in reference to the Zune, and this reminds me of something I heard about Intel as opposed to AMD recently.
Apparently, Intel pays a large percentage of any given computer manufacturer's advertising to throw up the "Intel inside" during a commercial or in a print ad. So, even though Dell uses AMD in a number of high-end products, you wouldn't know it from looking through Dell's marketing efforts, because quite a few of them are paid for using money from Intel.
One has to wonder if Apple isn't doing something similar. iPods do randomly show up in totally unrelated commercials. Given, they are much much cooler than to the average person than a microchip.
If the Zune flops, then they go into negotiations with the record companies with the ability to say "we've all you've got, we've made you this much money, and all your efforts to make money not using our method have failed"
No, but I predict that a year down the line people will still be bashing the Zune when it doesn't - or bitching about MS screwing them over when they have to pony up the $$$ for a 2nd-gen model to get that functionality.
I don't think even your President is that dumb. After all, didn't he once say "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice
What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
Hey, if it works for you, go for it. I disagree that it's easier, though.
1. The device as it currently stands doesn't offer a good alternative to the 5.5G 30 GB iPod, especially since the 30 GB iPod is physically smaller and uses a far more mature interface software (iTunes) to copy media files to the player.
2. The interface software for the Zune has gotten a lot of gripes from too many users and reviewers.
3. The Zune uses it own unique digital rights management system, totally incompatible with the Windows Media Player Play for Sure DRM system most non-Apple online download sites use.
Everyone who wants to send a buck to the RIAA by buying a Zune raise your hand!
If the player was $50 or usable, I'd be tempted to keep one on the shelf just as a RIAA get out of jail free card.
Letter arrives saying you were pirating music. I reply with a copy of the sales reciept.. I bought a license to pirate. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
That is why I bought a few spindles of Music CDR's. The royalty has been paid for the pirated music contained within. They do not come with a EULA showing any restriction on the pirated music recorded on the music CDR's. I use them for all my sneaker-net music library.
The truth shall set you free!
Who would have guessed?
Play Command HQ online
I think we should take zuned to mean screwed over, as in
Want to play your MS provided 'Plays for Sure' music on a new MS Zune? Zuned.
Want to buy one song instead of 5 at a time, but find you have to buy bundles of MS points instead? Zuned.
Want to share your music without DRM and time limits? Zuned.
And a special thank you for partners of MS :
Worked with MS for years to build up the 'Plays for Sure' platform only to see it superceded by an MS only effort? Zuned.
Still, getting 13th spot in a top 10 list isn't too bad going...
The reason the iPod is so successful is because it so beautiful - the design is unbeliavly stylish, even to the compromise of other features. And style is not something that 100 programmers at Microsoft can achieve because they don't have Jonathan Ive, and there aren't a lot of Jonathan Ives floating around.
Nobody has anything to fear (directly) from v1.0 of a Microsoft product.
The fact that v1.0 (of their handheld player device) is weak shouldn't make Apple rest easy. Apple should, if they know what is good for them, panic immediately.
When Microsoft gets to version 3.0, they've got an acceptable product.
When Microsoft gets to version 4.0, the claws come out and they've got a solid product.
Don't look at Microsoft's present product and say the iPod is safe. It isn't.
It wouldn't install properly, and after 2 hours of being online with Microsoft, there was no resolution. I finally used "System Restore" to roll the system back to before I tried to install it and re-installed it and got it installed. I've been trying to sync my music to the unit since Monday (today is Wednesday). It reports that 20gb is used (My collection is less than 8gb), but only about 8 albums show up on the unit. I told the Zune software to erase the unit (losing all the pre-loaded items which I'm told I will lose forever unless I pay for them again...), and it pretended to erase the unit, but actually didn't. The Zune software is awful and non-intuitive. The user experience is awful. It's like someone decided to make a player that was the exact opposite of the iPod in ease of use, user experience, and software design. My Dell DJ was 100x better than this, and it wasn't as good as an iPod at all. It's a shame that Microsoft took a good player (the Toshiba Gigabeat) and turned it into something so much less than it's progenitor. Microsoft doesn't seem to understand that a company has to serve it's customers, not itself... The Zune is a flop in my opinion. I'm going to buy an iPod which is what I should have done in the first place. I just wanted to try the Zune. I made a wrong choice. Choosing Microsoft lately has become a bad choice... The company isn't interested in providing me the best user experience at the best price. It seems more interested in just squeezing me for every penny it can.
I am not aware the money the Universal Music gets is a "royalty" fee or a licence fee for ANY consumer action. It's just money Microsoft gives them so that THEY can sell music on-line.
Having bought such a machine confers nothing useful on us. It's simply a tool Microsoft will use to disadvantage the other venders who want online stores.
Owning a Zune confers no rights to "copy" music beyond any you had before-hand.
...I must confess that my skin color has never influenced any eletronics purchases I've made.
I didn't think the house band in Hell would play this badly.
It's just money Microsoft gives them so that THEY can sell music
Unfortunately for all parties on the other side of the fence the legal wording is to cover the piracy the device will be used for. They sold their rights to collect the fee.
The truth shall set you free!
Better than both, is the Archos 604 WiFi.
The current iPod sucks - all that 'real estate' taken up by a big dumb click wheel.
Zune - better screen, but still, kinda clunky, oh - and it can't play any formats that people already have.
Archos has better performance and compatibility than both the Zune or iPod.
What I wonder is when AMD will make a tiny, ultra low power, single core processor with integrated graphics?
(powerful enough to run a basic laptop - or add lots of computational power into products like the iPod.)
The original report was premature. Accorinf to todays data (Nov 29th) Zune has risen to the SECOND spot, with 9% of the market.
It is rather funny to see people here explain "why Zune failed...". LOL. Zune is a huge success. Tehcnically it is not a serious challenger to iPod yet, but it's initiali performance on the market is incredible.
Not 7th, not 10th, not 13th. It is SECOND now.
I've seen nothing in print that says that. This may be true for government mandated "taxes" on blank media that some countries do. The laws that authorize the tax often clear users, or at least the courts have rule in some cases
But this is a private deal between Microsoft and Universal Music "because of piracy". They might as well have used the term "because the sky is blue". Just 'cause the word piracy is in their press release doesn't mean Universal Music is giving us something good for their buck. The copyright laws and DCMA still gives them the power to sue anybody who "steals" their music.
This was done to benefit the Microsoft and the RIAA and was designed to do NOTHING for us. Anybody who thinks different let us know if the RIAA decides to drop the suit 'cause you stored the music on a Zune
If there is something offical which actually indicates otherwise as opposed to our wishing and hoping based on their claiming it was to make up for piracy then I'd love to see it.
And my cavemen neighbors act like they have made sliced bread.
I'm an actor for Geico commercials, you insensitive clod!
Uhm. Dude. You obviously have no clue what you are talking about. I'm not even going to answer to the points you raise, because they're simply false. You're either lying or simply don't know anything about FairPlay. Please read up on it, or try it out, and then come back and apologize for your stupidity.