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Winnie Wrote a Math Book

SoyChemist writes "Hollywood is not known for providing a wealth of positive female role models. Danica McKellar, the actress that played Winnie Cooper on The Wonder Years and Elsie Snuffin on The West Wing, has written a math book for teenage girls. 'Math Doesn't Suck' is done in the style of a teen magazine. It even includes a horoscope, cute doodles of shoes and jewelry, and testimonials from attractive young career women that use math at work. It focuses on fractions and pre-algebra and uses mnemonics like calling a reciprocal a 'refliprocal', because you just take the fraction and flip it upside down. Wired interviewed McKellar about the new book and her crusade to eliminate the achievement gap between boys and girls in math courses. McKellar graduated Summa Cum Laude from UCLA. While studying there, she co-authored a proof and presented it at a conference. After she and Mayim Bialik — star of Blossom and a PhD in neuroscience — appeared in a 20/20 episode about intellectual actresses, several literary agents came knocking on her door."

638 comments

  1. Barbie disagrees by NJVil · · Score: 5, Funny

    Back in 1994, Barbie thought differently.

    Math is hard!

    1. Re:Barbie disagrees by purpledinoz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I applaud this effort. I really really wish there were more women in tech. It would have made my university life more enjoyable. And work would be more fun too....

    2. Re:Barbie disagrees by hal2814 · · Score: 3, Funny

      You should've seen what he thought back in 1944.

    3. Re:Barbie disagrees by huckamania · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hard and doesn't suck are two different things. Unless you are talking about basic math, it generally is hard. The only class I ever dropped at Uni was a math class.* I thought I was failing but the teacher was actually grading on a curve. She said I was one of the top students. Key word being 'She'. In fact almost all of my math teachers have been women.

      It's almost degrading to women that people keep bringing this stuff up. Condescending might be the right word. Like when someone feels the need to comment about how well Colin Powell speaks. There's an unspoken 'and he's black' that is left hanging for the listener to fill in by themselves.

      I get the same feeling everytime I see a story about how some person is the first X to do Y. I get an image of them being patted on the head and someone saying, 'Gee, you're a hero to X people every where, it only took all of recorded history for you Xers to get off your fat lazy assess and do Y, but golly, you finally did, great job. Now go find some other dubious achievement you Xers haven't got around too yet and be the first in that too.'.

      Still, Winnie was hot and I always knew she had brains.

      ---
      *I didn't need the credit and wanted to keep my grade point at the honors level. CS was put in with the Natural Sciences like interior decorating, who all seemed to graduate Summa Cum Laude, which blew out the GPA for everyone else.

    4. Re:Barbie disagrees by kryten_nl · · Score: 1

      Sure, I can see it now:
      "Why is your desk such a mess?"
      "Clean up that hard drive!"
      "No, it is not funny to do a DSMC of a penis, not even a 10 meter long one."

      Yeah, that would be so much better.

      --
      For the perfect anti-Unix, write an OS that thinks it knows what you're doing better than you do and let it be wrong.
    5. Re:Barbie disagrees by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 0, Troll

      Wow, your humor is amazingly topical! Do you take requests? Do a joke about that Taco Bell dog!

    6. Re:Barbie disagrees by gatzke · · Score: 4, Funny

      But is it NP-hard?

    7. Re:Barbie disagrees by Penguinisto · · Score: 3, Funny

      Back in 1994, Barbie thought differently.

      Math is hard!

      ...only for sufficient values of "hard".

      /P

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    8. Re:Barbie disagrees by begbiezen · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      What do you mean "their Fundies and Unions won't even let them bring in immigrants to keep the lights on" ? (I know you mean fundamentalists)
      I really hate this (incredibly stupid) idea that gets thrown around all the time that immigrants do the jobs no one else wants to do. It's like everyone has forgotten to use their brain.
      Why is it that people are happy with a job in sanitation? (the garbage man)
      Because it pays.
      Any time you hear of a job that "Americans don't want to do" it simply means not enough money is being paid.
      Instead you have this brain-dead idea that it's ok to have second-class citizens.
      "it's good that they've eradicated teenage pregnancy"
      yeah and while they're at it, they'll eradicate homosexuality and masturbation too. And how about young people being horny? Have they fixed that yet?
      Everyone can be like that guy in "40 year old virgin." Great movie btw.

    9. Re:Barbie disagrees by lymond01 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's almost degrading to women that people keep bringing this stuff up. Condescending might be the right word. Like when someone feels the need to comment about how well Colin Powell speaks. There's an unspoken 'and he's black' that is left hanging for the listener to fill in by themselves.

      In Engineering at a university down the road from Harvard, my only female engineering/math/physics teacher was for Statics. She was also one of the early lead engineers for the Big Dig (a marvel of engineering, despite its flaws).

      The thing with Colin Powell is that you expect either rambling bluster a la most politicians (he's more of a statesman though), or a James Earl Jones bass voice. Instead, he has this nice tenor voice delivering complete sentences. It's a rarity in the human race, especially with government and military figures, to have a voice and demeanor that gives the appearance of thoughtfulness. It's why people would vote for him if he ran for public office.

    10. Re:Barbie disagrees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's almost degrading to women that people keep bringing this stuff up. Condescending might be the right word.

      No, what's condescending is including horoscopes and cute doodles of shoes and jewelry. WTF!?

      Like when someone feels the need to comment about how well Colin Powell speaks. There's an unspoken 'and he's black' that is left hanging for the listener to fill in by themselves.

      No, the unspoken thing is "in stark contrast to the president". His race has nothing to do with it. When your Commander-in-Thief speaks like a semi-retarded gibbon, it makes everybody who can pronounce "nuclear" appear as eloquent as a poet.

    11. Re:Barbie disagrees by Prien715 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Like when someone feels the need to comment about how well Colin Powell speaks. There's an unspoken 'and he's black' that is left hanging for the listener to fill in by themselves.

      It's funny how people choose which races to recognize and which ones not. You could've replaced the unspoken with 'and he's Scottish', which is an equally valid statement. But you didn't, and why it seems obvious that you didn't is the heart of the issue.

      There's nothing wrong with marketing towards certain kinds of women though. There's been plenty of math and philosophy courses filled with sport metaphors to market to jocks. Why not one build one around fashion? Anything that gets people learning is good, whether or not I'd personally appreciate it.

      --
      -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
    12. Re:Barbie disagrees by Applekid · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's funny how people choose which races to recognize and which ones not. You could've replaced the unspoken with 'and he's Scottish', which is an equally valid statement. But you didn't, and why it seems obvious that you didn't is the heart of the issue. If GP is anything like me, he had no idea he's Scottish.

      The point I think that was trying to be conveyed was a suggestion. How about this: how about we judge a person on the person and not the lineage from which they descend? How about we judge a person on the person and not the gender to which they belong?

      Next thing you know they'll be targeting educational materials to fat people by using less word problems involving apples and more word problems involving Baconators.
      --
      More Twoson than Cupertino
    13. Re:Barbie disagrees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hard and sucks are related. If it sucks enough, it'll definitely be hard. However it can be hard without any sucking.

    14. Re:Barbie disagrees by blzabub · · Score: 2, Funny

      semi-retarded?

    15. Re:Barbie disagrees by xenocide2 · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's not even always solvable! Just ask Professor Turing about it...

      --
      I Browse at +4 Flamebait

      Open Source Sysadmin

    16. Re:Barbie disagrees by aquatone282 · · Score: 1

      I really really wish there were more women in tech

      Yeah?

      I've got two you can have. One talks non-stop about her four kids and her kitchen re-model (former team lead now corporate QA manager) and the other gives us all daily updates on her senile grandmother in the nursing home when she isn't arguing with anyone who asks her question about anything (DBA and configuration manager).

      Thank God for headsets and the Flaming Lips

      --
      What?
    17. Re:Barbie disagrees by saider · · Score: 1

      The thing with Colin Powell is that you expect either rambling bluster a la most politicians (he's more of a statesman though)

      (Opus is preparing for the Meadow Party debate, all dressed and admiring himself in the mirror.)

      Opus (to himself): Yessiree, you sure will make a fine statesman.

      Reflection: You're a politician.

      Opus(indignant): I am a statesman.

      Reflection: A statesman is a dead politician.

      (Lord knows we need more statesmen!)

      --


      Remember, You are unique...just like everyone else.
    18. Re:Barbie disagrees by mariushm · · Score: 1

      In my country (.ro) girls use to be better at maths at school, mostly because they learn more and want better grades (there's competition)... boys use to be more careless, they don't care so much about grades and end of year prizes. I know I didn't care much about much, usually got only C's at maths and physics.. and now i'm working in IT. Or at least it was about 16 years ago like that, when i was in high school, nowadays the school system sucks more and more with each day...

    19. Re:Barbie disagrees by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      The difference between good hard and sucky hard is like the difference between a Kafka story and Dick and Jane in Klingon.

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
    20. Re:Barbie disagrees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I work in a research lab and about half of the PhD here are women, which I believe is a good thing. I believe we should allow anyone to achieve to their maximum potential without prejudice. We also have summer internship program that encourages minorities and females learn about research in which science and math are important part of this. Many girls and minorities are discouraged from science and math because they don't fit a "mold" that certain cultural values of some people have placed on them and this, at least in the modern United States of America, is ridiculous.

    21. Re:Barbie disagrees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More fun? Are we talking 'sit down with the HR people' fun?

      It seems faintly dangerous to treat a female co-worker even one iota different from a male co-worker. A lot probably depends on your particular corporate culture, but it only takes one incident to make the entire company scramble to cover its collective ass.

      Gender equality is all good and well, but it's probably a good idea to tread carefully...

    22. Re:Barbie disagrees by why-is-it · · Score: 1

      I applaud this effort. I really really wish there were more women in tech. It would have made my university life more enjoyable.

      Partly out of interest, and partly out the desire for a more enjoyable university experience, I took a minor in Psychology. Standards of beauty are relative, and I freely admit that I have no right to be judging anyone else, as I am at least one standard deviation below average attractiveness. But man, there was a world of difference between my female Comp Sci and Psych classmates.

      It's a pity that I couldn't find the courage to speak to any of them about anything other than course-related topics...

      --
      *** Where are we going? And what's with this handbasket?
    23. Re:Barbie disagrees by risk+one · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's almost degrading to women that people keep bringing this stuff up. Condescending might be the right word. Like when someone feels the need to comment about how well Colin Powell speaks. There's an unspoken 'and he's black' that is left hanging for the listener to fill in by themselves.

      I always fill that in with 'and he was in the Bush administration.'

    24. Re:Barbie disagrees by ccmay · · Score: 0, Troll
      It seems faintly dangerous to treat a female co-worker even one iota different from a male co-worker.

      Actually, you have to treat the devious wenches as lawsuit bait from the moment they set foot in your department. You never socialize with them after work, you never touch them or even look at them for longer than absolutely necessary, you never be alone with one in a room with a closed door. You NEVER NEVER NEVER go with a woman on a business trip unless you're on separate flights and stay in separate hotels, and even then you're taking a chance that she's not a lying thieving gold digger. It's best never even to speak to them unless required to do so by your job description.

      Any guy who doesn't follow this advice is begging to be raped by the matriarchy and their filthy trial-lawyer myrmidons.

      -ccm

      --
      Too much Law; not enough Order.
    25. Re:Barbie disagrees by humungusfungus · · Score: 1

      It's a rarity in the human race, especially with government and military figures, to have a voice and demeanor that gives the appearance of thoughtfulness. It's why people would vote for him if he ran for public office.

      So, in other words, for all the right reasons. /flamebait

      --
      No sig.
    26. Re:Barbie disagrees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you mean MIT?

    27. Re:Barbie disagrees by sexybomber · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There needs to be a masculist movement or something to counteract the "matriarchy and their filthy trial-lawyer myrmidons".

      Actually, is it even OK to suggest that?

    28. Re:Barbie disagrees by ccmay · · Score: 1
      My daughter's math teacher is a Romanian woman, and known for being a hard-ass. The girls hate her, but by God, she can make them learn math!

      -ccm

      --
      Too much Law; not enough Order.
    29. Re:Barbie disagrees by genner · · Score: 1

      Easy one.
      Here's what the Taco bell dog doll says

      Yo quiero taco bell.
      I think I'm in love.
      Cant this boat go any faster?
      What is a logarithm?

      True story.. looks like he hates math.
      Buy one here

    30. Re:Barbie disagrees by porcupine8 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, the quote is "Math class is tough," and only 1.5% of all Teen Talk Barbies said that phrase. If you find one now, it's worth quite a bit of money. (And I'll bet more than 1.5% of the population actually thinks that math class is tough.)

      </barbienerd>

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    31. Re:Barbie disagrees by Skim123 · · Score: 1

      Especially if they looked like this. She did a spread for Stuff Magazine. She did an interview for them, too.

      I recently heard her on a radio interview promoting her new book. She's smart and well spoken. But you know those types of jokes that are subtle and in the delivery? The kind that most socially adapted people pick up quickly. There were a couple of those that seemed to go over her head. (Which was neat because it made her seem more like the nerd/wallflower type than a social butterfly.) Here's an example from the Stuff Magazine interview:

      QUESTION: After the show, you attended UCLA, became a genius and published a paper on Percolation and Gibbs states multiplicity for ferromagnetic Ashkin-Teller models on Z2. I really enjoyed the part on infinite occupied clusters.

      ANSWER: It's really complicated and not that interesting to most people.

      Jeepers, Winnie, he was being tongue-in-cheek and opened the door for a joke. :-)

      --

      I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.

    32. Re:Barbie disagrees by utopianfiat · · Score: 1

      I really hate this (incredibly stupid) idea that gets thrown around all the time that immigrants do the jobs no one else wants to do. It's like everyone has forgotten to use their brain.
      Where exactly do you live, and in what world do the immigrants in your area NOT do the jobs that nobody else wants to do? I don't know about you, but it's certainly true in Texas. Immigrants here will work a lot longer and for a lot more money than nationals who were raised and went to college here.

      "it's good that they've eradicated teenage pregnancy"
      yeah and while they're at it, they'll eradicate homosexuality and masturbation too. And how about young people being horny? Have they fixed that yet?

      Well, the states hasn't exactly "eradicated teenage pregnancy". I know of a few people that I encounter in my daily life who quite recently became pregnant at 16, and I went to a rather upper-middle-class suburbanite high school.
      Secondly, I don't see what "eradicating teenage pregnancy" has to do with making people sexually repressed. The kind of thought that you need to be makin' babies without any form of contraception or you're a sexually repressed tool is kind of ridiculous.

      --
      +5, Truth
    33. Re:Barbie disagrees by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1

      "There needs to be a masculist movement or something"

      I think you're talking about something called "patriarchy" - and last I checked, we were still in one, which is why this article - and the ladies involved - got noticed here at /. - home of the lonely geek.

      Of course, one reason the article is news is that actresses aren't exactly considered to be smart (aside from the odd individual like Jodie Foster). Given that Mayim Bialik isn't exactly on the top ten list of "Hollywood babes", I guess the article pretty much proves that point as well.

      Or maybe somebody just wanted to offset the steady stream of "Lindsay Lohans" we've been getting.

      --
      Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
    34. Re:Barbie disagrees by mackyrae · · Score: 3, Funny

      Hey, I'm a teenage girl and there is a chunk of the teenage-girl-population that I swear speaks a different language. If someone figured out how to translate math into their language, good for them.

      --
      look! it's a bird, it's a plane, it's....a girl? yes, a girl browsing Slashdot on Linux
    35. Re:Barbie disagrees by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1

      Yeah, he never finished his service, he never finished his businesses, he never finished New Orleans (well, actually, he did, but not that way), he never finished the war - so he hasn't finished being retarded yet.

      But "we will not falter and we will not fail" - so he'll get there.

      Dick's coaching him, so he'll make it.

      --
      Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
    36. Re:Barbie disagrees by Torvaun · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Encouraging anyone based on race or gender is prejudiced. Whenever there are criteria involved in a choice that are not merit-based, we intentionally cripple ourselves.

      Not discouraging girls and minorities is one thing, but it's easy to overshoot, and start discouraging men and majorities in the name of not being exclusionary. This is possibly more stupid, in the case of discouraging majorities, because you limit the available pool even more.

      --
      I see your informative link, and raise you a pithy comment.
    37. Re:Barbie disagrees by tguyton · · Score: 2, Insightful

      'Math Doesn't Suck' is done in the style of a teen magazine. It even includes a horoscope, cute doodles of shoes and jewelry, and testimonials from attractive young career women that use math at work. It focuses on fractions and pre-algebra and uses mnemonics like calling a reciprocal a 'refliprocal', because you just take the fraction and flip it upside down.

      Degrading and condescending, indeed. While it is great that she's trying to get girls more interested in math, this is sending completely the wrong message. I think it's horrendous that society thinks the only way to interest teenage girls in things like math and science is to trick them into it with horoscopes and shoes. And math shouldn't be dumbed down by renaming things because words like 'reciprocal' are just too hard. Things like this disgust and insult me. I don't enjoy being treated like a less-intelligent species just because I don't have a penis.

    38. Re:Barbie disagrees by natedubbya · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm still amazed at how people still push to help girls succeed. It makes me think it has become a larger political issue about advancing women's views, and not because they are actually struggling. All the recent evidence points to girls succeeding beyond boys, and yet, where are the pro-boy programs? You will always be able to point out a specific area of work that men outnumber women, or vice versa, but that doesn't mean we should rectify that "problem". There's a much larger issue where boys are being left behind.

      Women have outnumbered men at colleges for ~25 years now. Women outnumber men 58% to 42%.

      75 percent of girls aim for college degrees vs. 66 percent of boys

      The study found that not only are girls in the nation's 100 largest school districts graduating at a ">72 percent rate versus 65 percent for their male counterparts, but that the gender gap is even wider among minority students.

    39. Re:Barbie disagrees by Smauler · · Score: 1

      It's almost degrading to women that people keep bringing this stuff up. Condescending might be the right word. Like when someone feels the need to comment about how well Colin Powell speaks. There's an unspoken 'and he's black' that is left hanging for the listener to fill in by themselves.

      The thing is that people consistently come up with the idea of "masculine" and "feminine" qualities. My mother is a pretty strong feminist, and hated Thatcher, because of what she stood for. Her sex did not matter.

      We've had a female prime minister, as have other countries. Look at India, Pakistan, etc. The US has only ever had white christian men. If that is not prejudice, I don't know what is.

    40. Re:Barbie disagrees by Stanistani · · Score: 4, Insightful

      *scratches head*

      Odd. I've worked with women in my tech field for 22 years. I treat them with respect and have never had any trouble. Nobody in my area has any trouble with the women, except for one blatherskite who was fond of discussing their secondary sexual characteristics. He crashed and burned.

    41. Re:Barbie disagrees by begbiezen · · Score: 1

      "Where exactly do you live, and in what world do the immigrants in your area NOT do the jobs that nobody else wants to do?"

      did you read my post?
      What about garbage men in your area? Aren't they decently paid in Texas? Don't they get benefits?
      do you consider being a sanitation worker one of those jobs that non-immigrants don't want?
      (no, i bet you wouldn't)
      and why is that?
      now, what if that sanitation job paid minimum wage with no benefits.
      O, wow, i guess now it's a job only immigrants would take.
      and why is that?

      "Well, the states hasn't exactly "eradicated teenage pregnancy". I know of a few people that I encounter in my daily life who quite recently became pregnant at 16, and I went to a rather upper-middle-class suburbanite high school."

      besides exposing your insecurities, did that have a point?

      "Secondly, I don't see what "eradicating teenage pregnancy" has to do with making people sexually repressed. The kind of thought that you need to be makin' babies without any form of contraception or you're a sexually repressed tool is kind of ridiculous."

      you kind of have a point there, except i didn't say anybody was a sexually repressed fool. i was pointing out that the statement "eradicate teen pregnancy" is silly. if the statement had been "reduce teen pregnancy" it wouldn't have been silly.

    42. Re:Barbie disagrees by skarphace · · Score: 1

      It seems faintly dangerous to treat a female co-worker even one iota different from a male co-worker.
      You have fun struggling against your genetics.
      --
      Bullish Machine Tzar
    43. Re:Barbie disagrees by mackyrae · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that seems to be the most appropriate filling....

      --
      look! it's a bird, it's a plane, it's....a girl? yes, a girl browsing Slashdot on Linux
    44. Re:Barbie disagrees by Xtravar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The point I think that was trying to be conveyed was a suggestion. How about this: how about we judge a person on the person and not the lineage from which they descend? How about we judge a person on the person and not the gender to which they belong?

      Next thing you know they'll be targeting educational materials to fat people by using less word problems involving apples and more word problems involving Baconators. Well, you see, that's how they maximize profits - by identifying groups of people and exploiting their desire and insecurities.

      It just so happens that women have gotten the worst end of it. You aren't pretty? You need some makeup like a clown! Still aren't pretty? Here are some diet pills! Still not? Show off your anorexic figure with these new clothes! What, men still don't love you? Then you need Cosmopolitan to teach you how to properly service and manipulate them.

      Marketing is EVIL and it destroys love, peace, and all that is good in this world. Marketing to women is the most despicable thing on the planet and anyone who does so is Satan. Have you seen those Bratz dolls? They are little slutty dolls, now in BABY form... teaching little girls what's important in life! Being popular, getting men to like them!

      If you don't buy our product, no one will love you and you'll be all alone! Boo fucking hoo - more people will really like you if you're not a consumer drone anyway.

      Start changing culture, one person at a time, with your attitude toward this horse shit. Fellow nerds and outcasts: do you want a girl who is slutty, manipulative, and flaky or do you want a woman who can match your wit? Do you like painted up whores because society tells you that's what you should want? The problem is, you really can't have both at the same time.

      Now, this book seems to have a genuine interest in expanding girls' horizons. I don't know if it's the right way to do it, but it's a lot better than another book on how to please your man.
      --
      Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
    45. Re:Barbie disagrees by Miseph · · Score: 1

      "I think it's horrendous that society thinks the only way to interest teenage girls in things like math and science is to trick them into it with horoscopes and shoes."

      While I agree, I must also point out that there are probably a few dozen major publications which are targeted almost exclusively at teen girls and cover very little else, and that retailers have long known that some of the highest margins and sales can be had on clothing and shoes marketed at that demographic. Marketers and ad agencies are very smart, and whatever conclusions they come up with about peoples' attitudes I, for one, will at least give serious consideration to... even when I wish the reality couldn't be that bad. Like another poster said, if it works then that's a good thing, even if we find it reprehensible ourselves.

      "And math shouldn't be dumbed down by renaming things because words like 'reciprocal' are just too hard."

      I have to admit, I think that's actually a pretty good mnemonic. It's a decent way of remembering what a reciprocal does, so long as you can remember the name; there are people of all genders who have trouble keeping that sort of thing straight.

      --
      Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
    46. Re:Barbie disagrees by cyphercell · · Score: 1

      Actually, is it even OK to suggest that?

      my lawyer says yes, it is ok

      IANAL - this is not legal advice

      --
      Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
    47. Re:Barbie disagrees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey lookit that! It's the Blue Angels!

    48. Re:Barbie disagrees by cyphercell · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Some Women fear being left alone with what might be an abusive chauvinist.

      Some Men fear being left alone with what might be an abusive, lying, conniving, devious wench.

      Either way, you shouldn't discredit his fear of abuse anymore than you should discount those of a woman. I know from experience that contact with the wrong woman can easily become a life changing event. In fact I've been suffering with an inability to commit for several years, based on fear alone. I couldn't imagine going through that kind of abuse at work, and then having to deal with a happy home falling apart because of some psychotic woman I had to go on the road with.

      The really unfortunate issue here is that work is actually a great place to determine if someone is safe before you hook up with them, many men and women feel this way, because you can actually get to know people at work seeing them day in and day out.

      --
      Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
    49. Re:Barbie disagrees by DamnStupidElf · · Score: 1

      But is it NP-hard?

      Worse! It's either inconsistent or incomplete, and no one knows which!

    50. Re:Barbie disagrees by Original+Replica · · Score: 2, Informative
      It seems faintly dangerous to treat a female co-worker even one iota different from a male co-worker.

      Actually you have to treat them very differently. I can make off-color jokes with my male co-workers. I can make physical contact with my male co-workers. I can go to a bar after work with my male co-workers. If I were the type of guy to treat people like shit, I could do so, with my male underling co-workers.

      Sexual harassment cases of the hostile-environment variety result from sex differences in what men and women perceive as "overly sexual" or "hostile" behavior. Many women legitimately complain that they have been subjected to abusive, intimidating, and degrading treatment by their male coworkers. Browne points out that long before women entered the labor force, men subjected each other to such abusive, intimidating, and degrading treatment. Abuse, intimidation, and degradation are all part of men's repertoire of tactics employed in competitive situations. In other words, men are not treating women differently from men--the definition of discrimination, under which sexual harassment legally falls--but the opposite: Men harass women precisely because they are not discriminating between men and women.http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto- 20070622-000002.xml
      --
      We are all just people.
    51. Re:Barbie disagrees by SageMusings · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, you have to treat the devious wenches as lawsuit bait from the moment they set foot in your department

      I concur wholeheartedly. I have witnessed people go down hard because the organization chose to prevent the possibility of a lawsuit by placating a female by firing a male for the most banal, unsubstantiated fluff.

      My personal protection mechanism is to interact only much as necessary for me to remain employed. It's sad to act this way but reality is harsh. I really like women, too. There is just no way I can afford to jeopardize my livelihood on perceived harrassment.

      --
      -- Posted from my parent's basement
    52. Re:Barbie disagrees by SageMusings · · Score: 1

      Marketers and ad agencies are very smart, and whatever conclusions they come up with about peoples' attitudes I, for one, will at least give serious consideration to

      New Coke?
      Crystal Pepsi?
      KTM screwing McGregor and Boorman? You have to be a motorcycle fan to get this one...

      --
      -- Posted from my parent's basement
    53. Re:Barbie disagrees by DarkHelmet · · Score: 1

      Waylon Smithers, is that you? ;)

      --
      /^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
    54. Re:Barbie disagrees by Alien+Being · · Score: 1

      A university down the road from Harvard? Admit it, you wear a brass rat. MIT grad or not, you're not too bright if you think the big dig is a marvel of engineering. It's what more enlightened people call a clusterfuck.

      There are millions of gallons of water leaking in daily, and huge blocks of concrete falling down on people. The cost overruns are nearly $10,000,000,000, and rather than providing an efficient route around the city, it forces normal people to drive thru the rat-infested sewer they call Beantown. Cambridge people riding around on their recumbent bicycles have no clue about these things.

    55. Re:Barbie disagrees by CastrTroy · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Apparently women don't want to hear the right words. It's like that old episode of home improvement. I experience this with my wife all the time. I start using technical (ie. the correct words) and she just stops listening and insisting that I'm just trying to confuse her. She wanted to use edit photos, so I use words like palette, crop, layers, scale, saturation, and she immediately stopped listening. She went and bought a photoshop book, and was still kind of turned off with all the "big words". I tell her that we have words for a reason. So that people know what other people are talking about. Apparently she thinks it's better if we use words like "whats-its", "thing-a-me-bob", and "squiggly-thing". People who don't want to learn the proper terminology, are going to have a very hard time getting anywhere in any subject.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    56. Re:Barbie disagrees by DuckDodgers · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Some women are obnoxious. Some men are obnoxious. Asshole behavior is not bound by gender.

      The two female developers I work with periodically are quite competent, and neither has told me their life story.

    57. Re:Barbie disagrees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't be an idiot. Encouraging a set of people is nowhere near prejudiced. *Discouraging* a set of people based on race or gender is discrimination. Telling women "Hey, look! You might like this type of thing!" is a good thing as they have been discouraged from taking the male oriented subjects for many years. Boys tend to need less encouragement to go into fields such as Engineering, Maths or Science, it doesn't mean anybodies discouraging them.

      Throwing around words like prejudice is a really stupid thing to do as it devalues them and their real meanings.

    58. Re:Barbie disagrees by pravuil · · Score: 1

      Still, Winnie was hot and I always knew she had brains.

      That's the only thing I read in your post and I concur...

    59. Re:Barbie disagrees by quantaman · · Score: 1

      It's almost degrading to women that people keep bringing this stuff up. Condescending might be the right word. Like when someone feels the need to comment about how well Colin Powell speaks. There's an unspoken 'and he's black' that is left hanging for the listener to fill in by themselves. Actually the unspoken 'and' isn't 'and he's black', it's 'and he was part of Bush's administration'.

      Now I'm not saying that there aren't members of the Bush administration who are well spoken, polite, and intelligent. But you can't deny the fact that those qualities are statistically less likely to show up there than in other populations. Sure you may call it prejudice when I see one of them on the street and check to make sure none of my civil liberties are missing, but isn't it being naive to assume that I'm not more likely to end up in Guantanamo after running into one of them in a darkened courthouse?

      Now it's unfortunate that Collin Powell is burdened with the preconceptions of others of his political alignment but it's hard to ignore the facts.
      --
      I stole this Sig
    60. Re:Barbie disagrees by kestasjk · · Score: 1

      It's fine to say "Hey, look! You might like this type of thing!" But the moment you decide to hire a woman over a man just because she's a woman that is true discrimination, and it's just as bad as hiring a man just because he's a man.

      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
    61. Re:Barbie disagrees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The previous poster wasn't from the US, dumbass.

    62. Re:Barbie disagrees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When she teaches me math, I get hard

    63. Re:Barbie disagrees by coren2000 · · Score: 1

      When she teaches math, I get hard But when I want to multiply with this babe of a teacher, all she teaches me is how to divide:( Oh Danica, what is the remainder of my heart...?

    64. Re:Barbie disagrees by gaspyy · · Score: 1

      This whole "girls don't do math" mentality must a US thing.
      More than half of my maths teachers, from highschool to engineering have been women and in high school at least, girls were beating us boys at math (top 5 at maths were all girls). Most interesting of all, I don't recall us boys disconsidering them for that.

      So girls don't need any special attention for math. It's not like their brain can't cope with it - rather, it's a cultural issue.

    65. Re:Barbie disagrees by kayditty · · Score: 0

      Evidently, you enjoy acting like an attention seeking piece of shit, though. Who gives a fuck whether you're a woman?

    66. Re:Barbie disagrees by Teriblows · · Score: 2, Insightful

      um... lets just see if winnie marries a nerd. i doubt it. the simple fact is women want to marry a man with equal or higher education and should earn more money than them. men on the other hand don't care as much as long as the girl is pretty. there are basic evolutionary reasons for this, you won't get rid of it through attempts at social programming. as for marketing, isn't this push just another form of marketing? the only thing that matters in life is math!! please...its like pretending everyone should have an mba. girls that like math dont need this condescending book, and those that dont..dont either. as for being pretty, self improvement is a sin? everyone does it, math nerds included, including spending way too much time fretting over academics. its time for people to stop blaming everyone other than themselves. whats this obsession with portraying women as delicate flowers that wilt at the first sign of distress? yet they are also supposedly equal and strong women!!! come on, these messages of default weakness are the problem, its time to tell people to just grow a spine and some self control instead of telling them they are the helpless victim of everything which frankly has sexist roots.

    67. Re:Barbie disagrees by orcrist · · Score: 2, Funny

      The two female developers I work with periodically...

      Must... resist... bad... joke... [sweat pouring down face]

      --
      San Francisco values: compassion, tolerance, respect, intelligence
    68. Re:Barbie disagrees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's say your company runs a summer internship program that has x places available. One year they implement a "Positive Discrimination" policy to ensure that 40% of those x go to women. Sure, they'll encourage more women to join the program, but the number of positions available for men has been decreased by 40%.

      The correct way to do it would have been to increase the number of positions available by 40% and ring-fence those for female applicants only, which would not have affected the bulk of the positions already available. However that costs money, so nobody does it that way. In general, you don't get "Positive Discrimination" without a corresponding negative effect for somebody else.

    69. Re:Barbie disagrees by xeno-cat · · Score: 1

      The transportation department is aware of the deficiencies with the Big Dig. They are planning on moving the express way to a bridge that snakes /through the city/ and fill the tunnel with Spectacle Island. No harm no foul.

      --
      "A few great minds are enough to endow humanity with monstrous power, but a few great hearts are not enough to make us w
    70. Re:Barbie disagrees by bob.appleyard · · Score: 1

      I can't believe you didn't post that anonymously. Mod "-1, Wanker"

      --
      How dare you be so modest!! You conceited bastard!!
    71. Re:Barbie disagrees by shalla · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Apparently women don't want to hear the right words.

      That's not women. That's a certain subsection of the population and it comes in both male and female form. I should know. I teach computer skills for a public library. Some people are good with technical terms. Some people--well, for some reason, the correct terms really rattle them, so you need to describe what it is visually and then later start sneaking the words in so they pick them up and start using them without realizing it.

      At least with phone call questions of the "Something is screwed up and I can't get it to do what I want" type, the non-jargon folks are sometimes preferable because they can accurately describe what they see on their screen. Being a jargon person doesn't guarantee you're using the correct term. (We have a patron who routinely confuses the terms hard drive and desktop. If you handle two calls from him in a day, your coworkers will buy you a drink.)

    72. Re:Barbie disagrees by lymond01 · · Score: 1

      You seem a little...tense. MIT beat you on the Charles or something? But no, I went to school in the other direction...T-U-F-T-S, hurrah hurrah for the dear old brown and blue up on the hill hill hill! The fight song is definitely NOT a marvel of anything, I have to say, other than, perhaps, to make people laugh when you tell them that was your fight song. If I had gone to MIT though, I'd be just as content. Not sure what their fight song is though...

      Read up on the Big Dig...it is a marvel and a clusterfuck both. Hardly mutually exclusive those. I think only one tile fell (albeit it killed who it fell on) but I know that, if I visited Boston again, I wouldn't want to be stopped in traffic in the Dig tunnel.

    73. Re:Barbie disagrees by Alien+Being · · Score: 1

      "You seem a little...tense."

      I took exception to the way the OP referred to MIT as an engineering school down the road from Harvard. It's an old line and it generally comes from people who are trying a little too hard to not *appear* presumptuous.

      There's nothing marvelous about the big dig. It may contain some good engineering, but on the whole it's a giant sucking vortex. Other roads in the state are being neglected because so much money was wasted on that ill-conceived project.

    74. Re:Barbie disagrees by Frothy+Walrus · · Score: 1

      Brandy!

    75. Re:Barbie disagrees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      On a similar note, I remember when I had to work with a Male tech who would blather on and on and on about the greatest of Linux. Had to constantly listen to his most recent kernel mods, and how he configured Emacs to do something awesome.

      I'd take a woman talking about her kids and her kitchen remodel over some guy and his Linux blather day in and day out ... any day of the week.

      Hell, my MALE coworker right now talks about what HIS kids are up to at college, how HE's working with an engineer and contractor to remodel HIS bathroom. And on top of that, HE will sometimes discuss the latest issues HE's having with HIS father in a nursing home.

      It's not the HE or SHE, it's the fact that people occasionally talk about their personal lives at work, and it's not always tech oriented. Just because I'm in IT, doesn't mean I live and breath it. Besides, it's oh so easy to not have to talk to someone about their personal life. You just say so.

      Oh wait, I forgot. Since we're talking stereotypes anyway, Men in IT are socially inept. So I can't expect them to either a) hold a conversation about anything but technology, or b) have the social skills required to politely tell someone they don't want to hear about their personal life.

    76. Re:Barbie disagrees by that+IT+girl · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem is with a lot of the women, if you ask me. I'm a woman in the IT field and I like hanging with the guys I work with, we can tell off-color jokes and go out to bars together, and we do that sometimes.

      The problem is when women demand to be treated the same and then are oversensitive to the way men are just being themselves around her. In order to be treated the same as men, you'd have to understand them and think like them. Women are made differently--equally, but differently. And most women should not only be treated as such, but should REALIZE that. Most women do not really want to be treated the way men treat their peers of the same gender, they just don't seem to realize that men have a different 'code of honor'. Women seem to think that men are always respectful to one another and have this very idealized and very wrong idea of what male/male relationships are like, and I'm guessing it's because men act differently around them. As a result, they get offended by the things men say and do when they're just doing what she requested.

      Yes, wordy, I'm sorry--I'm a woman! ;) but the point is, most women need to be treated a bit differently in order for them to feel comfortable, they just don't realize it. I feel fortunate that, for the most part, I am better friends with men than women, and I understand the way they think and act. I can enjoy being around 'the guys'. (My boyfriend feels fortunate too, LOL.) But I am an exception, not the rule.

      --
      10 FILL MUG WITH COFFEE
      20 DRINK COFFEE
      30 GOTO 10
    77. Re:Barbie disagrees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      do you want a girl who is slutty, manipulative, and flaky You're goddamn right I do.

      Next question?
    78. Re:Barbie disagrees by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      She wanted to use edit photos, so I use words like palette, crop, layers, scale, saturation, and she immediately stopped listening. As somebody who understood all of those terms, but would not have understood them 12 months ago, I have to say you are really expecting a lot.

      How much color theory did you expect her to pick up in 30 seconds? Did you expect her to just magically grasp layers?

      Photography has a pretty high learning curve if you want to get technical. Why not just give her a copy of Photoshop Elements or Picasa and teach her how to fix basic exposure and white balance issues? That's probably 99% of what she wanted to do, anyhow.
      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    79. Re:Barbie disagrees by porcupine8 · · Score: 1

      What, am I the only Barbie nerd on slashdot??

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    80. Re:Barbie disagrees by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Uh, I've seen a recording where he doesn't sound so stupid and that's when he didn't know his microphone was on[1].

      If you guys think he's stupid, go figure out how he got re-elected.

      Maybe because most voters in the US prefer to vote for people who seem to be like them.

      e.g. stupid?

      Note: I didn't say most people in the US, I meant active voters. Then again maybe the election was Diebolded, but hey if it was, who got punished for that?

      [1] http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/07/18/bush.ta pe.reaction/index.html

      IMO, while he may not be The Evil Super Genius, he's not as stupid as he pretends to be.

      --
    81. Re:Barbie disagrees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but it's certainly true in Texas. Immigrants here will work a lot longer and for a lot more money than nationals who were raised and went to college here.

      I guess that explains the bridge in Minnesota collapsing. No Mexicans to work on the roads, and no American will do the job.

    82. Re:Barbie disagrees by Frothy+Walrus · · Score: 1

      I also factored in the Apple fangirlism and the username. this is peeto, btw!

    83. Re:Barbie disagrees by Stoutlimb · · Score: 1

      I don't get it.

    84. Re:Barbie disagrees by FlyByPC · · Score: 1

      01100010011110010111010001100101 0110110101100101
      *CHOMP*

      Sorry, couldn't resist. ;-)
      --
      Paleotechnologist and connoisseur of pretty shiny things.
    85. Re:Barbie disagrees by porcupine8 · · Score: 1
      I fail at int0rnetz anonymity. *hangs head*

      Btw, I hear you got married. Congrats!

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    86. Re:Barbie disagrees by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Wow, and people like you are the reason a lot of fields don't have more competent eyeballs looking at them.

      Yes, if someone is new to the field, don't bombard them with specialized terminology, even if it is well-defined and widely used. Speak to be understood, and then introduce the proper terminology as appropriate. The "correct words" are the words *that accomplish your objective*.

      I have to teach people, including older ones, how to use software all the time, and without fail I have them comfortably working with it in short time. It's *because* I don't expect them to come in with all sorts of specialized knowledge or figure it out on their own.

      Your wife probably doesn't think it's better to use terms like "thing-a-me-bob"; it's just that she doesn't know the right term. She doesn't associate "snipping off the end" with "cropping", and would much prefer to use that latter when someone makes the connection for her.

      The other, related problem, is that people convince themselves that what they're doing is more complicated than it really is...

    87. Re:Barbie disagrees by Skim123 · · Score: 1

      I don't get it.

      You don't get what?

      --

      I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.

    88. Re:Barbie disagrees by iamacat · · Score: 1

      Boys tend to need less encouragement to go into fields such as Engineering, Maths or Science, it doesn't mean anybodies discouraging them.

      So basically, you are saying that males are more suitable for jobs that require a self-motivated individual? Like say, most programming jobs?

      If you disagree, why do you think a particular group of humans should get an extra motivation to go into fields that they wouldn't choose and be good at naturally?

    89. Re:Barbie disagrees by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      you're not too bright if you think the big dig is a marvel of engineering. [...] There are millions of gallons of water leaking in daily, and huge blocks of concrete falling down on people.

      And are the concrete blocks falling down because the general design was crap, or was it because the original engineering wasn't followed? The concrete used didn't meet the initial specs. That the implementation was crap doesn't mean the engineering wasn't a marvel.

    90. Re:Barbie disagrees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      chicks ... he does not get any of those ...

    91. Re:Barbie disagrees by JavaRob · · Score: 1

      I really like women, too. Wow, that's a telling phrase.
    92. Re:Barbie disagrees by Frothy+Walrus · · Score: 1

      thanks! I hope all is well on your end.

    93. Re:Barbie disagrees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IBM do that at Hursley Park.

    94. Re:Barbie disagrees by Vegeta99 · · Score: 1

      I'm a Human Development major. At my school, out of a few hundred in the major, I'm one of probably 5 guys.

      There's a reason for all the girls in psych - you wanna work with crazy little kids all day? Didn't think so. (I'm going to work with the kids who shoot at each other while shooting up with the other hand. No crazies for me.) Oh, and not only that, but people ALREADY don't like social workers taking their kids, but a female social worker is a little less likely to get socked in the face by the abusive father!

      (Captcha: semester :P)

    95. Re:Barbie disagrees by Alien+Being · · Score: 1

      "And are the concrete blocks falling down because the general design was crap, or was it because the original engineering wasn't followed?"

      The engineers said "Use this glue" and the constructors said "Glue? To hang tons of concrete? Wtf?" It's all documented and the NTSB investigation blames the engineering.

      "That the implementation was crap doesn't mean the engineering wasn't a marvel."

      You can ask someone to polish a turd, but it's still gonna be a turd.

    96. Re:Barbie disagrees by SageMusings · · Score: 1

      Dude, come on.........

      I mean I REALLY like women.

      --
      -- Posted from my parent's basement
    97. Re:Barbie disagrees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the hell?

      You can't really be serious? You live in the 1950s, AICMFP.

      I work in an office that's 90% female, and there are staff of both sexes who are unproductive, and staff of both sexes who are good workers.

      They discovered that men !> women sometime back in the late 60s, get with it.

    98. Re:Barbie disagrees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OMG - you would probably need some encouragement too, if the only thing you have heard all your life, was that people like you could not do something and that it would be unnatural to do it.

      We cannot change peoples upbringing so we try to undo some of the harmful prejudices with words of encouragement.

    99. Re:Barbie disagrees by JavaRob · · Score: 1

      Dude, come on.........

      I mean I REALLY like women. My point is, that's like saying "I like experiences".
      What, all of them?
    100. Re:Barbie disagrees by daem0n1x · · Score: 1

      Some weeks ago, there was an election for mayor in the capital city of my country. The most obvious candidate won. The next day, the headlines in the international press were "First black mayor in an European capital". That stroke me hard, because I never have thought about that before. Who the fuck cares if the guy is black or not?

    101. Re:Barbie disagrees by teflaime · · Score: 1

      actresses aren't exactly considered to be smart (aside from the odd individual like Jodie Foster

      If Jodie Foster were really all that smart, she wouldn't have made that steaming pile of crap Contact.

    102. Re:Barbie disagrees by teflaime · · Score: 1

      go figure out how he got re-elected.
      Republican fearmongering, jingoism, and election fraud. Duh!

    103. Re:Barbie disagrees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      do you want a girl who is slutty, manipulative, and flaky or do you want a woman who can match your wit?

      Oh get real. The answer is slutty, manipulative, and flaky, because she will be putting out!

    104. Re:Barbie disagrees by iamacat · · Score: 1

      You must be talking about Afganistan or something. Because in US at least for the last 20 years the message have been for women to work 12 hour-per-day jobs and don't let husbands and children "slow them down". The message has largely been successful, resulting in spectacular breakdown of modern families.

    105. Re:Barbie disagrees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah like not being able to install Ubuntu. Go die in a ditch nigger.

    106. Re:Barbie disagrees by _anomaly_ · · Score: 1
      Great explanation of the men/women dynamic (esp. in the IT industry).

      But I am an exception, not the rule
      ...and that's a shame.
      --
      "I have no special gift, I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
    107. Re:Barbie disagrees by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1

      Actually, I think Bush isn't as dumb as he SOUNDS. He SOUNDS dumb because he's really arrogant, and doesn't give a damn what people think, therefore he doesn't give a damn what he says, no matter how stupid it ends up sounding.

      He just doesn't give a shit. He just bullshits and doesn't care.

      In other words, we could forgive him being stupid, but not if he's just an asshole. And all the evidence indicates the latter.

      --
      Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
    108. Re:Barbie disagrees by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1

      She didn't - she wasn't the producer or the director.

      Besides, given what she got paid for it, well...

      Plus she got both a Golden Globe and a Saturn Award from the The Academy of Science Fiction Fantasy & Horror Films for it. Couldn't have been that bad.

      --
      Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
    109. Re:Barbie disagrees by that+IT+girl · · Score: 1

      Why thank you! ;)

      --
      10 FILL MUG WITH COFFEE
      20 DRINK COFFEE
      30 GOTO 10
  2. Yeah, I'll knock on her door, too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    But the judge says I'm not allowed within 100 feet of her.

    1. Re:Yeah, I'll knock on her door, too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I remember that crappy show, Winnie was pretty much a slut.

    2. Re:Yeah, I'll knock on her door, too by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 1

      Mind you, Kevin spent a large part of every episode trying to nail anything with an appropriate orifice, too.

  3. Random bits from the book... by grub · · Score: 5, Funny


    "If the man of the house gets home from work at 5:30 and dinner takes 1.25 hours to prepare, at what time should you start making it?"

    "If your makeup costs $40 and you put it on once a day, how much does it cost per application if the makeup runs out after 70 days?"

    "If the cake recipe calls for the oven to be at 400 degree fahrenheit but the oven only has celsius....

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:Random bits from the book... by Teifion · · Score: 2, Funny

      Considering the target audience, those examples are just about right. I find that it's far easier to learn something when I can apply it to an everyday situation or at least something I am familiar with. If the rest of the examples are as good as those then the book seems very good. I find it odd that your post was modded Funny rather than Informative.

      --
      My blog - This link wouldn't be interesting even if we set fire to
    2. Re:Random bits from the book... by happyemoticon · · Score: 2, Funny

      1: Ideally, one should wait a half an hour to an hour after settling in to eat. Most people have rituals they go through upon getting home from work (petting the dog, sitting down and watching some television, having a martini), and after those are completed they will be amicable enough to properly enjoy dinner.

      2: Surely this is an oversimplification of the problem. First, you need both day makeup and evening makeup (bolder colors to stand out more in lower light conditions), and you might only wear your evening makeup three or four times a week. Also, not all makeup goes with all outfits, or all occasions. But then again, I suppose it's like those spherical frictionless cows falling from the sky.

      3: One must also account for the fact that some ovens have different characteristics than others. Oftentimes you need to adjust the actual temperature a bit to get the proper effect. I'm not sure of the physics behind it, but my oven needs to be turned down about 25 degrees from whatever the recipe says.

    3. Re:Random bits from the book... by Otter · · Score: 4, Funny
      I'm not sure of the physics behind it, but my oven needs to be turned down about 25 degrees from whatever the recipe says.

      I'd guess that your thermostat is miscalibrated, Dr. Maxwell.

    4. Re:Random bits from the book... by R2.0 · · Score: 1

      "my oven needs to be turned down about 25 degrees from whatever the recipe says."

      You are aware that the knob on your oven is adjustable, right? Get a thermometer, get a true reading, and adjust your temp knob.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    5. Re:Random bits from the book... by moderatorrater · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's a funny post, but it also illustrates one of the core problems with recruiting girls into math and engineering: a lot of them aren't interested. My sisters don't care about getting into a really intensive job because they know that they're going to get married and become homemakers. It's not that there's a problem if they do differently, it's that they've chosen that path to happiness. How many girls like my sisters are skewing the results of math/engineering studies?

    6. Re:Random bits from the book... by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 0

      I'd guess that your thermostat is miscalibrated, Dr. Maxwell.

      That or he's living in some alternate reality where everything has a greater degree of internal energy, requiring less heat to cook. Has he finally harnessed that mysterious zero-point energy they had in The Incredibles? It's the only logical conclusion.

    7. Re:Random bits from the book... by everphilski · · Score: 1, Funny

      If the stove is white, what color shoes should you be wearing? :)

    8. Re:Random bits from the book... by happyemoticon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I detect a bit of irony in GP's post. One example assumes that a woman is a homemaker who should be cooking dinner for her man; two assumes that a woman should be wearing makeup; three assumes that women should, again, be cooking. That this is framed in the context of something which supposes to emancipate women from underachieving in math, science and engineering is what creates the irony.

      Myself, I wouldn't say that being feminine in this highly traditional sense is an innately bad thing, but that other role options should be presented and accepted by people at a young age so they can decide for themselves how to identify.

    9. Re:Random bits from the book... by everphilski · · Score: 2, Funny

      My knobs are digital ...

    10. Re:Random bits from the book... by Ucklak · · Score: 1

      Air pressure and altitude also play a factor.

      --
      if you steal from one source, that is plagiarism, if you steal from many, well, that's just research.
    11. Re:Random bits from the book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See, now that's a trick question!

      Everybody knows a woman should not wear shoes when cooking! ;-)

    12. Re:Random bits from the book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, though I agree with the GP. I know a *LOT* of women who are math/physics majors or graduates.

      They would have thrown up and/or been offended at page two of such a book as was described in TFS. The book looks like its designed to try to devapid the vapid.

      I applaud the effort even if I think it is unlikely of success.

    13. Re:Random bits from the book... by sjf · · Score: 1

      Ah..British schoolboy humour at its finest.

    14. Re:Random bits from the book... by anonicon · · Score: 4, Funny

      Answers:

      A. 4:15.
      B. $0.5714285714 per application, or $0.57.
      C. 204 celsius = 400 fahrenheit.

      I am all woman.

      Chuck

    15. Re:Random bits from the book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      awwwwwwww, isn't that cute? Look guys she's doing math. Ok honey, now don't you worry your pretty little head.....

    16. Re:Random bits from the book... by LindaMack · · Score: 1

      Thank you very much! I just spilled my bong, and now I have to go look for munchies, brb

      --
      You will be assimilated

    17. Re:Random bits from the book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget pregnant!

    18. Re:Random bits from the book... by hazem · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Myself, I wouldn't say that being feminine in this highly traditional sense is an innately bad thing, but that other role options should be presented and accepted by people at a young age so they can decide for themselves how to identify.

      I don't know. It seems her target audience is the teen girl who'd be into magazines about makeup and boys. I think she's trying to show these girls that they can be into makeup and boys and still be good at math. I think she's blurring the roles by adding a component that is normally kept out those roles.

      Clearly the book is not for everyone but I like the nontraditional approach.

    19. Re:Random bits from the book... by errxn · · Score: 1

      I'm just wondering how the hell this stuff made it past the PC Police at the publisher.

      --
      In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
    20. Re:Random bits from the book... by OrangeTide · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There's nothing wrong with being a home maker. Kids are enough work that they can keep two parents busy. The problem with early feminism is that they treated women badly who wanted to raise their own children.

      If cooking dinner makes you inferior that's issues that are in your head and have no real bearing on reality. Look at all the famous chefs, nobody thinks they are inferior for cooking!

      On the other hand I think if I were to have kids, I would want them to be raised by a mother who is educated and knowledgeable. It can be extremely beneficial to introduce children to science at an early age, they seem to really take to it if presented properly. And we all know that public school alone just does not cut it for giving a kid the education they need to succeed. Parents that have the ability and will to home tutor their kids in addition to going to school are going to have kids who have a competitive edge when it comes time to enroll in college or get a job.

      Also staying home does not mean you need to be stupid, just like having a paying job doesn't make you intelligent.

      The Economist had an interesting article on women in the work place, and that companies are learning that women's careers tend to be non-linear, and that this non-linearity can be a barrier to upper management. And the ability for many of us to telecommute 1 or more days a week is having a dramatic impact on improving the wage inequality between men and women, because it is keeps women from having to choose between career and family.

      Things are moving in a positive direction, but that said, books that encourage young girls to be interested in math, science, and technology are beneficial because as we move to a society where it is possible for both parents to work. We will find that it may become impossible for most single income families to live at an income level they are comfortable with. Women may have no choice but to join the work force and establish long term careers in addition to having a family. That's the dark side of all this progress and equality.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    21. Re:Random bits from the book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > There's nothing wrong with being a home maker.

      Of course not. Expecting women to be homemakers solely by dint of their sex is the problem.

      Me, I pay someone every two weeks. To clean. Jeez.

    22. Re:Random bits from the book... by Joebert · · Score: 2, Funny

      Does anyone else wonder if My Cousin Vinnies argument about grits still holds weight ?

      --
      Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
    23. Re:Random bits from the book... by Joebert · · Score: 1

      Put a piece of tape over the LED while using the thermometer.

      --
      Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
    24. Re:Random bits from the book... by BranMan · · Score: 1

      Actually, I think 4:15 is wrong. I'd apply a 20% margin to account for varying traffic delays, which in this case is 15 minutes. Thus it should be started at 4:30, not 4:15

    25. Re:Random bits from the book... by gardyloo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      some alternate reality where everything has a greater degree of internal energy, requiring less heat to cook. Time for some mental vomiting...

      If _everything_ has more internal energy, that leads to several quandaries:

              i) What's important in energy transfer of any type, but especially with degraded energy types like heat, is an energy *difference* between the hot and cold regions. If you've added a fixed amount of energy to every object, then the transfer rate would still be the same as before, leading to no change. (However, see pt. ii, below). This assumes something like Newton's law of heating and cooling (or just dE/dt = k1(E2-E1), where k1 is roughly constant at a given energy).
                If the energy was bumped up by an amount proportional to the energy already in the object, then the 25 degree difference mentioned by the parent makes some sense, because hotter (more energetic) objects would lose/absorb heat even faster to/from their surroundings (dE/dt = a*k1*(E2 - E1). Here, a>1, and was just factored out of the 'original' energies E1 and E2 mentioned above).

              ii) More energy really does lead to more gravitational attraction due to E = mc^2. This would be absolutely negilible at our scales, but it would tend to make black holes more sucky, and might change galactic dynamics on long time scales.

              iii) Most interesting to me is the fact that the Third Law of Thermodynamics defines a perfect crystal as having _no_ entropy at zero Kelvins (neglecting quantum effects like zero-point energy). Bumping up the energy of everything including this hypothetical crystal would lead to a breakdown of the temperature scale just above zero Kelvins. That might happen if everything except some hypothetical crystal were to have energy somehow magically added to it.

              I dunno. Time to go clean more floors.
    26. Re:Random bits from the book... by ransom1982 · · Score: 1

      Umm, I think the examples are just made up to be funny.

    27. Re:Random bits from the book... by microTodd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But maybe this book can show them that by knowing math and being well-educated can make you a *BETTER* homemaker. I try to get this concept across in my freshman college algebra course I teach.

      -Doing taxes
      -Understanding mortgages (not getting screwed by a baloon payment ARM)
      -Not getting ripped off by sales prices and percentages
      -Budgets (again, percentages and ratios)
      -Understanding the world and the media (statistics)
      -Etc

      --
      "You cannot find out which view is the right one by science in the ordinary sense." - C.S. Lewis on Intelligent Design
    28. Re:Random bits from the book... by sloth+jr · · Score: 1

      Sort of funny - but only a little. Every time one of these "Women pursuing intellectualism" comes out, so too does slashdot misogyny. I don't really get this. I consider myself a pretty smart guy, and am fairly successful. I know that it would be very difficult for me to get a degree in mathematics, and I applaud Winnie's efforts to make math more accessible to those that might otherwise turn away. *I* haven't published a proof, nor testified before congress, nor written a book that helps spread whatever hard-earned knowledge I have.

      Smart women rock.

      sloth jr

    29. Re:Random bits from the book... by Irish_Samurai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One example assumes that a woman is a homemaker who should be cooking dinner for her man; two assumes that a woman should be wearing makeup; three assumes that women should, again, be cooking. That this is framed in the context of something which supposes to emancipate women from underachieving in math, science and engineering is what creates the irony. ]

      Wait, you mean this book is targeted at girls who read fashion magazines? So the context is predefined? Namely the context of talking to girls who like this sort of thing? Oh...well I guess we should just assume shes being condescending, or ignorant, instead of realizing that she is a girlie girl hottie with a frigginErds-Bacon number who might have some personal experience and investment in getting more girls like her to become feminine intellectuals!

      This book doesn't make the assumption that it emancipates anyone. It tries to use a damn effective vehicle for communicating material that is often not desirable to consume. If you think I'm wrong, how do you explain the high number of women who purchase fashion magazines who at the same time blame the media for the false image they have to live up to. Thats a magic trick in and of itself, getting people to pay to hate themselves, to be fed tailored insecurities.

      Maybe Danica McKellar put some of her UCLA brains to work and found a vehicle that she could co opt to educate and empower these girls.

      You know, you may not like it, but there is a class of women out there who are effectively super women. Beautiful, intellectual, empowered, employed in high paying and influential positions, and raising kids. Its just that most MEN, and I use that term referring to genetic makeup, can't handle the realities of being with them. Their pathetic mirror to female insecurity creates this never ending fountain of emasculated feelings. Or, even worse, the hubris laden egos of most technically proficient males can't cope with the fact that their mate can equal, or best them, in an aspect he uses to define himself in.

      Thats why you people come up with terms like this:]
      Myself, I wouldn't say that being feminine in this highly traditional sense is an innately bad thing, but that other role options should be presented and accepted by people at a young age so they can decide for themselves how to identify.

      You NEED to feel at some point in a female's life cycle that they are vulnerable for no other reason than they are female. That a female couldn't possible see the forest for the trees and separate content from context. The worst part is, your closet superiority complex is what is giving you the biggest problem relating to people.

      The reality of the matter is its called Marketing 101. Get someone to PURCHASE the book for their daughter, thinking its a good idea. I don't know about you, but many young people don't go out and purchase any raw math text books when they weren't required or directed to. I think someone with a Degree in Mathematics from UCLA could figure this out and perhaps work around it.

      Just a thought. Or you can continue on with the asinine idea that every demographic variant needs to be presented with every option represented in every light for every possible socio-economic combination of factors in order to validate itself.
    30. Re:Random bits from the book... by kaizokuace · · Score: 1

      altitude as well as oven construction play into it. Older or more simple type ovens (usually found in any old apartment) especially electric ovens dont heat very evenly and are difficult to control the temp.

      --
      Balderdash!
    31. Re:Random bits from the book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dude... OP has a very dry sense of humor. Read his other posts, if he were being serious you'd probably know it.

    32. Re:Random bits from the book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Or they are using an electric convection oven, and this is the oven manufacturer's recommendation...

    33. Re:Random bits from the book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should lower the oven temperature by 25F when using glass baking dishes. Perhaps this is what you are experiencing.

    34. Re:Random bits from the book... by LearnToSpell · · Score: 1

      Hey, what are you doing later? I get off work at 5...

    35. Re:Random bits from the book... by Noodles_HK · · Score: 1

      Frankly, being better in math makes you a better citizen of the world...

    36. Re:Random bits from the book... by 2names · · Score: 1
      You should not feel badly about paying someone to clean for you. First, it gives you time to do other things in life that add to your well being, which will make you and society better. Second, it provides income to another person who can then use the money to improve his or her situation. Everybody wins.

      I also pay someone to clean, though it is every week because I have a dog that sheds like crazy.

      --
      "I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
    37. Re:Random bits from the book... by shalla · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's a funny post, but it also illustrates one of the core problems with recruiting girls into math and engineering: a lot of them aren't interested. My sisters don't care about getting into a really intensive job because they know that they're going to get married and become homemakers. It's not that there's a problem if they do differently, it's that they've chosen that path to happiness. How many girls like my sisters are skewing the results of math/engineering studies?

      I just had an urge to rewrite this from the other perspective:

      It's a funny post, but it also illustrates one of the core problems with recruiting boys into math and engineering: a lot of them aren't interested. My brothers don't care about getting into a really intensive job because they know they're going to get married and become homemakers. It's not that there's a problem if they do differently, it's just that they've chosen that path to happiness. How many boys like my brothers are skewing the results of math/engineering studies?

      (If you're too culturally ingrained to picture a man as a homemaker, you can insert "permanent English grad student" in the above paragraph.)

      Maybe your sisters aren't interested because they never thought it was cool to be? See, that's kind of what the book is trying to address. There are a number of people who believe that more women would be interested in math and science if they encountered more books like Danica McKellar's and fewer books like The Rules or some of the schlock I've had sent to me by relatives of friends. (Seriously, it takes a lot of nerve to send your 20-year-old nephew a book to give to his female friends which directs them that the only true Christian woman is the wife who unquestioningly follows her husband's orders and stays at home and realizes that when he isn't speaking to her, it's her fault. That was an eye-opening book for me. I felt for that woman's daughters, who had absolutely no interest in math and science or anthing aside from finding a husband. It might possibly have been related to their upbringing.)

      And there are a lot of men who aren't interested in math or science either when you ask it like that, but if it has to do with something they do, it's more interesting.

    38. Re:Random bits from the book... by oni · · Score: 1, Interesting

      There's nothing wrong with being a home maker.

      "Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession... The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family- maker is a choice that shouldn't be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that." -- Vivian Gornick, feminist author, University of Illinois, The Daily Illini, April 25, 1981.

      "In order to raise children with equality, we must take them away from families and communally raise them" -- Dr. Mary Jo Bane, feminist and assistant professor of education at Wellesley College, and associate director of the school's Center for Research on Woman.

    39. Re:Random bits from the book... by 2names · · Score: 1

      And when you're done with the floors, Will, please be sure to empty the ashtrays in my office.

      --
      "I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
    40. Re:Random bits from the book... by kiracatgirl · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And that's why I really don't like the way feminism is going. It's incredibly frustrating to have my peers think less of me when they find out that I don't actually want to have a career; I want to have some sort of part-time job to help out financially and mainly take care of the house and kids. Just because I can be a highly successful something-or-other and make lots of money and spend all of my time in some office doing the same basic thing for years and years doesn't mean I want to. I'd rather be poorer and happier.

    41. Re:Random bits from the book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      "Beautiful, intellectual, empowered, employed in high paying and influential positions, and raising kids."

      Nope. Doesn't exist. You can try to find one, but I guarantee you at least one of those things you list she'll be at best mediocre at, while the reality is it's probably more than one.

      "Its just that most MEN, and I use that term referring to genetic makeup, can't handle the realities of being with them. Their pathetic mirror to female insecurity creates this never ending fountain of emasculated feelings."

      I can't speak for most men like you just did, but if you're going to go out of your way to appear balanced and enlightened, I think it might be a good idea if you avoid drawing conclusions about "most men".

      Of course the truth is, you're talking about you, and couching your criticism of yourself in verbiage designed to make it seem like you're just drawing an ignorant comparison based on your own personal failings and stereotypes about men, while simultaneously pretending to be enlightened about roles of women.

      It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.

    42. Re:Random bits from the book... by SIIHP · · Score: 1

      "Its just that most MEN"

      So, stereotyping is bad except when you do it?

      --
      I only go to buffets for the unlimited soft serve.
    43. Re:Random bits from the book... by Irish_Samurai · · Score: 1

      I'm not trying to appear balanced and enlightened at all.

      I have an opinion, and I state it.

    44. Re:Random bits from the book... by why-is-it · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I know that this was meant to be funny, but it really isn't.

      Although I would like to think we have evolved a bit, there are a few too many guys around here that view slashdot as their private tree-house, and are afraid that girls will give them cooties.

      I was going to give this post a pass, but the misogyny in some of the comments in this thread is simply unacceptable.

      I don't know about the rest of you, but if I had a daughter, I would want her to be able to choose the career she wants, rather than be limited to ones that society determines are gender-appropriate. I would like everyone else's daughter to have the same choice.

      Before anyone flames me, I would like to point out that men and women are indeed different, and there's nothing wrong with finding humour in those differences. Jokes like the ones above should have died out with the rest of dinosaurs...

      --
      *** Where are we going? And what's with this handbasket?
    45. Re:Random bits from the book... by Irish_Samurai · · Score: 1

      What stereo type am I refering to when I talk about it on a genetic level? Are you stating that males in general don't have these hangups? This isn't "manly man" vs. "effeminate men" in the war of the definition of "true man", this is genetic predisposition to certain traits. Its not all encompassing, thats why I said most.

      Look at many mating structures in nature. Alpha dominate specimens get to choose their mates. Dominate females can and will deny suitors even if that male is the "alpha". Subordinate males often employ harrasing tactics to alpha females in attempts to get them to consent to mating.

      Oh, you don't like my double use of the word MEN instead of MALES. OK, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong. You can attack me, but you have yet to state anything that makes my argument any less valid.

      I also never said stereotyping was bad. I stated, in a round about manner, that the subtle assumptions that men make are the real slights.

    46. Re:Random bits from the book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I'm not trying to appear balanced and enlightened at all."

      Then you've succeeded!

      "I have an opinion, and I state it."

      I'm beginning to see the problem...

    47. Re:Random bits from the book... by SIIHP · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "What stereo type am I refering to when I talk about it on a genetic level?"

      This one

      "this is genetic predisposition to certain traits"

      "You can attack me, but you have yet to state anything that makes my argument any less valid."

      I didn't attack you, I asked a question. Why so defensive?

      "I stated, in a round about manner, that the subtle assumptions that men make are the real slights."

      While your "subtle assumptions" are valid right? Save that nonsense, thanks.

      --
      I only go to buffets for the unlimited soft serve.
    48. Re:Random bits from the book... by Irish_Samurai · · Score: 1

      Its called observation, check it out.

    49. Re:Random bits from the book... by oni · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And that's why I really don't like the way feminism is going.

      Well, just take that stand and stick to it. What feminism *should* be about is simple equality under the law, because that's "the right thing to do." It's been hijacked by some heavy-duty radicals, but that doesn't have to reflect negatively on you. You can take care of your kids and still call yourself a feminist, and if anyone says, in shock, "omfg you believe every word of the SCUM manifesto??" You can calmly say, "no, I believe that men and women should be treated equally under the law" and make no apologies for what other people do.

    50. Re:Random bits from the book... by MrNiceguy_KS · · Score: 1

      I'm hoping that whoever modded you Troll missed your point. The only people who think there's something wrong with being a home maker are "feminists". You know, the ones who are standing up for a woman's right to do whatever she wants, unless she happens to want to stay home and take care of children.

      At least, that seems to me to be the most likely reason for the Troll mod. Hopefully they'll realize the mistake and post something to undo the mod.

      --
      Redundancy is good And also good.
    51. Re:Random bits from the book... by qualidafial · · Score: 2, Funny
      Reminds me of "The Woman Song" I heard on the Bob and Tom show:

      I am Woman, hear me roar! (if you don't open my door..)
      I can do anything that a man can do! (but I don't have to..) They also did an equivalent song for the guys, "He's the Man:"

      And I can have sex any time (that you want..)
      Cause I'm a man with needs! (but they're not that important..)
    52. Re:Random bits from the book... by Merk · · Score: 1

      Home makers are fine. Without them, where would we live? Well, I guess there's always apartments. Or do you mean housewives / househusbands? They don't make homes, they just work there.

      Look at all the famous chefs, nobody thinks they are inferior for cooking!

      It's not the cooking that makes people look down on them, it's that they're only cooking for their family. The level of sophistication expected over a househusband / housewife cook is not on par with what's expected out of world-famous chefs, it's more what's expected out of a line-cook at a diner... a profession that isn't widely respected. If a housewife / househusband has the skills and interests to be a famous chef, then they would be looked down upon for staying at home rather than putting their skills to use in the marketplace.

      [A]s we move to a society where it is possible for both parents to work [w]e will find that it may become impossible for most single income families to live at an income level they are comfortable with. Women may have no choice but to join the work force and establish long term careers in addition to having a family. That's the dark side of all this progress and equality.

      As we move to that kind of society? It has been possible (and acceptable) for both parents to work for more than 30 years. It has also been possible for only one parent to work for 30 years. Some families choose to have both parents work, some choose to have one parent work. Sure, sometimes there are hard choices, live a more frugal lifestyle and have one parent stay at home, or live a more rich lifestyle but see your family less. I don't see having a choice as a "dark side", however.

    53. Re:Random bits from the book... by Speare · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Not to politicize the thread or anything, but

      Thats a magic trick in and of itself, getting people to pay to hate themselves, to be fed tailored insecurities.

      Look at what the sheeple vote for, look at what the administration and the corporations lobby for, look at what the representatives fast-track into law.

      --
      [ .sig file not found ]
    54. Re:Random bits from the book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You NEED to feel at some point in a female's life cycle that they are vulnerable for no other reason than they are female. That a female couldn't possible see the forest for the trees and separate content from context. The worst part is, your closet superiority complex is what is giving you the biggest problem relating to people. This is patently ridiculous. All that he's trying to say is that children should be presented with the choice to choose how they see themselves instead of being ushered into the way that 'society' thinks they should be. This goes for both boys AND girls.

      He's probably only talking about girls because this book is targetted at girls and not boys. Talking about boys not being shoe-horned into "traditional roles" has little berring on a discussion about teenage girls.

      I don't want to accuse, but you come off as trying to flame him for saying something that he didn't even say. If that was not your intention, then I apologize and suggest that next time you try to explain you position in a way that people don't need to guess at the tone that you are taking.
    55. Re:Random bits from the book... by patio11 · · Score: 1

      640 feet above sea level should be enough for anybody!

    56. Re:Random bits from the book... by Irish_Samurai · · Score: 1

      suggest that next time you try to explain you position in a way that people don't need to guess at the tone that you are taking.

      Fair enough. I probably should have used WE, or Male dominated societies, or anything else besides the term YOU.

    57. Re:Random bits from the book... by Doctor+Faustus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's incredibly frustrating to have my peers think less of me when they find out that I don't actually want to have a career; I want to have some sort of part-time job to help out financially and mainly take care of the house and kids.
      People don't think less of you by nearly as much as they would think less of a man who wanted that.

    58. Re:Random bits from the book... by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1

      "In order to raise children with equality, we must take them away from families and communally raise them"

      This part is actually valid, although probably not the way this individual meant it.

      For most of human history, children were the responsibility not just of their parents but of the entire tribe. The tribe couldn't afford troublemakers and losers, so the training of children was a tribal responsibility. There were specific things every child had to know how to do to be functional in the tribe, and these things were trained into the child and the child tested with specific rituals. The "child" also stopped being a "child" at puberty, as nature intended.

      The industrial revolution screwed that up royally. Add in the screwed up notions of education and "morality" from the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries - and that's why you're all morons who can't get laid, defend yourselves, or fix anything in your house now.

      Leaving morons to turn their offspring into morons was society's worst mistake in some centuries - almost on a par with accepting the notions of the state and religion.

      Until those three notions are reversed, things are going to continue to get worse, not better.

      --
      Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
    59. Re:Random bits from the book... by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1


      Triple-X: "You know where you blew it? With HER! My aunt was in the restaurant business all her life. There's no way in hell a career waitress comes to work in high heels! She'd have blisters the size of pancakes before lunch. And if SHE ain't real, then this whole thing ain't real."

      Shoes MATTER!

      --
      Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
    60. Re:Random bits from the book... by utopianfiat · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Wrong. You're forgetting about the possibility about male homemakers, which is really the uncovered area in feminism.
      The problem with feminists' position on homemaking is that a lot of the bigger, more radically outspoken feminists are more supremacists than gender egalitarians. They ignore the stigma placed on the male if the male isn't a patriarch, or an alpha, or a "provider". If I didn't have a college degree or a job that paid well enough to support a wife and kids, I'd have zero social capitol, and *that* is a key problem in approaching a society that treats genders equally.
      A man who makes home is almost unheard of and certainly not respected among a great deal of the people I know, and I think that's a shame- a god damn shame. I would even go so far as to call male homemaking a litmus test for the amount of progress we've made on gender equality. Putting women in positions of power is one thing (implying that women can "stray" from their "place under men"), but allowing a man to "lower" himself to homemaking or even the perception that a homemaker is "under" a worker/provider is the true determinant of equality of sex.

      --
      +5, Truth
    61. Re:Random bits from the book... by kramulous · · Score: 1

      Nicely worded, although the christian woman thing was a little scarey.

      I'm a mathematician (employed), I love to cook (I cook six out of seven nights and breakfasts on Saturday and Sunday mornings for my wife) and am looking forward to being the 'homemaker' when my first born arrives very soon now.

      --
      .
    62. Re:Random bits from the book... by kiracatgirl · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Which bothers me just as much, honestly. I know a guy who would love nothing more than to find a nice career-woman to marry and raise a family for. It's all so depressingly hypocritical. Women are supposed to be allowed to have whatever career they want and be able to support themselves and be independent, but men aren't supposed to be allowed to take care of the home and family and be dependent on all these women who'd rather not spend their time raising children.

    63. Re:Random bits from the book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> my oven needs to be turned down about 25 degrees from whatever the recipe says

      Your oven is stealing the heat from my oven! I need to turn my ove UP by 25 degrees from whatever the recipe says.

      Well, if you've already figured it out, I guess you don't need to go buy a decent oven thermometer like I did to adjust for the lousy thermostat installed in most ovens.

    64. Re:Random bits from the book... by grub · · Score: 1

      Well fucking said. I was going to Friend you and saw you already were; you must have written something equally as cool earlier.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    65. Re:Random bits from the book... by grub · · Score: 1


      Our stove is digital and has an adjustment for the temperature calibration. RTFM, it's in there :)

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    66. Re:Random bits from the book... by grub · · Score: 2, Insightful


      I know that this was meant to be funny, but it really isn't.

      Lighten up!

      [snip]
      I don't know about the rest of you, but if I had a daughter, I would want her to be able to choose the career she wants, rather than be limited to ones that society determines are gender-appropriate. I would like everyone else's daughter to have the same choice.

      I have a daughter. My lady works part time so she can be home with the wee one most days. We didn't base this on gender, we based it on income. If she made more I'd be home.

      Before anyone flames me, I would like to point out that men and women are indeed different, and there's nothing wrong with finding humour in those differences. Jokes like the ones above should have died out with the rest of dinosaurs...

      Oh wah. I showed my lady the post and she laughed. It was a joke, nothing more, nothing less.

      Political correctness is the cancer that's killing /b/^Wslashdot.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    67. Re:Random bits from the book... by Techno-Hat · · Score: 1

      If I had mod points, I would mod you up even higher. It's nice to see someone who actually gets the concept of happiness being more important than money. Stay home and take care of your kids. Working in an office will NEVER bring you the happiness and contentment that raising and taking care of your family will bring you.

    68. Re:Random bits from the book... by Timtheenchanted · · Score: 1

      Nice comparison

      "...a paying job doesn't make you intelligent.

      The Economist..."

    69. Re:Random bits from the book... by Bluesman · · Score: 1

      In that case, you should really model the man's arrival time as a Poisson process...

      --
      If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
    70. Re:Random bits from the book... by Timtheenchanted · · Score: 1

      Thats a low blow. Homemakers actually work, permanent English grad students are just bums.

    71. Re:Random bits from the book... by Anonamused+Cow-herd · · Score: 1

      You NEED to feel at some point in a female's life cycle that they are vulnerable for no other reason than they are female. That a female couldn't possible see the forest for the trees and separate content from context. The worst part is, your closet superiority complex is what is giving you the biggest problem relating to people.

      Aside from being unnecessarily hostile in a purely theoretical discussion, the generalizations you present here are the kind of infectious stupidity that lead to horrible social policy and broad discontent across societal segments. OF COURSE females are vulnerable at some points of their life just because they're female. Is that supposed to be some sort of a revelation? That's true of absolutely everyone, female or not.
      Regardless, you're responding to a post explaining a _joke_, pal. He correctly identified WHY it's supposed to be ironic; he's not claiming that the book actually does that at all. Hence the phrase: "something which supposes to emancipate women" -- supposes being the key word. I like how you get your panties in a twist, as it were, over a joke's explanation, but then go on to say:

      You know, you may not like it, but there is a class of women out there who are effectively super women. Beautiful, intellectual, empowered, employed in high paying and influential positions, and raising kids.
      Brilliant. So let's get this straight. That's the virtue of women (in order of decreasing importance)? Good to see where your priorities lie. Not to mention the fact that the word "empowered" is absolutely worthless. You're making a shallow mockery of a truly deep and important subject, so please, stop.
      --
      -----[0_o]-----
      We are not amused.
    72. Re:Random bits from the book... by Slithe · · Score: 1

      That's fine if you are hiring native-born citizens (from whatever country you live in), but importing immigrants simply to act as domestic servants seems ultimately wrong and stupid IMO.

      --
      ---- "XML is like violence. If it doesn't fix the problem, you aren't using enough."
    73. Re:Random bits from the book... by mackyrae · · Score: 1

      Eh, that was on the stove, not in the oven where airflow and "hot spots" matter. That's why convection ovens exist. They keep the heated air moving to get rid of the hot spots. Of course, sometimes you get the silly people who can't figure out why "the new toaster oven" takes 15 minutes to heat a bagel.

      --
      look! it's a bird, it's a plane, it's....a girl? yes, a girl browsing Slashdot on Linux
    74. Re:Random bits from the book... by Vicks007 · · Score: 1

      What you have there is a convection oven, a nifty little appliance that integrates a fan into your run-of-the-mill oven. This, in turn, allows for more even heating and a higher rate of heat transfer (i.e. faster cooking). 25 degrees is a common approximation of the gain of a convection oven over its conventional counterpart, though this gain is actually neither constant nor linear.

      I'm a bit bugged that so many Slashdotters couldn't put this together, either blaming calibration, altitude, or errant physical constants. Kitchen technology is technology, too -- often cool technology to boot. Maybe there's something to that "gender roles" thing after all.

      (Full disclosure -- I'm a twenty-four year old male with an engineering degree. Though I do love being in the kitchen. Maybe I should follow Winnie's lead and do a cookbook for single male computer scientists. These guys are already leading the way.

    75. Re:Random bits from the book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i know you are trying to be clever reversing roles but it doesn't work. its like trying to get boys to play with dolls. force quotas do not work, its ffunny how they never try it with subjects dominated by females, like nursing or say dance. to be fair minded thats what they should be doing if they really believed such a thing would work.

      i remember they followed one program where they pushed girls into advanced math during high school and such, but do you think that carried through to college? no, turns out most choose not to be math or engineering majors because they weren't interested. maybe because it just didn't interest them, or perhaps they saw the industry conditions as not something they were willing to live with. like many technical fields they would face life of long work weeks and layoffs and off shoring. people who are busy bodies trying to push kids into certain subjects confuse what they value as what everyone should value. for instance a civil servant job would be scoffed at by such snobs, but for others the job security and benifits would be very good for having a family life. and whats that worth? theres a certain arrogant assumption that goes into such social engineering, that the women are stupid for their choices, perhaps they are just smart enough to see what they would not enjoy.

      do what you love. not what some social engineering busy body tells you to do.

      as for winnie, i think its the talking dog phenomenon at work here.

    76. Re:Random bits from the book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "If the cake recipe calls for the oven to be at 400 degree fahrenheit but the oven only has celsius....

      Depends on whether you think you have a future programming for NASA or not..

    77. Re:Random bits from the book... by Teriblows · · Score: 1

      Time for some mental vomiting... If _everything_ has more internal energy, that leads to several quandaries: i) What's important in energy transfer of any type, but especially with degraded energy types like heat, is an energy *difference* between the hot and cold regions. If you've added a fixed amount of energy to every object, then the transfer rate would still be the same as before, leading to no change. (However, see pt. ii, below). This assumes something like Newton's law of heating and cooling (or just dE/dt = k1(E2-E1), where k1 is roughly constant at a given energy). If the energy was bumped up by an amount proportional to the energy already in the object, then the 25 degree difference mentioned by the parent makes some sense, because hotter (more energetic) objects would lose/absorb heat even faster to/from their surroundings (dE/dt = a*k1*(E2 - E1). Here, a>1, and was just factored out of the 'original' energies E1 and E2 mentioned above). ii) More energy really does lead to more gravitational attraction due to E = mc^2. This would be absolutely negilible at our scales, but it would tend to make black holes more sucky, and might change galactic dynamics on long time scales. iii) Most interesting to me is the fact that the Third Law of Thermodynamics defines a perfect crystal as having _no_ entropy at zero Kelvins (neglecting quantum effects like zero-point energy). Bumping up the energy of everything including this hypothetical crystal would lead to a breakdown of the temperature scale just above zero Kelvins. That might happen if everything except some hypothetical crystal were to have energy somehow magically added to it. I dunno. Time to go clean more floors. dunno...write a book called "harry potter" and make a bagillion dollars. but you know...not enough math in harry potter, she's not a feminist at all. her achievement is meaningless. dunno...act in a tv show like winnie did and make tv money..then pose in magazines for more ridiculous money, then write a book on math for even more:P wonder how she paid or her fancy education???? IT WASN'T MATH! the math or clean floors thing is bullsh*t.

    78. Re:Random bits from the book... by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Importing immigrants? My impression is that a lot of effort is spent on keeping immigrants out (well, at least that sort of immigrants who most likely would take a job as domestic servant).

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    79. Re:Random bits from the book... by shalla · · Score: 1

      Nicely worded, although the christian woman thing was a little scarey.

      I'm a mathematician (employed), I love to cook (I cook six out of seven nights and breakfasts on Saturday and Sunday mornings for my wife) and am looking forward to being the 'homemaker' when my first born arrives very soon now.


      Awesome! That book WAS terrifying. What terrified me most was not that it existed, but that someone out there believed in it enough to raise her children by its tenets and pass it along to people she didn't know.

      I'm all for someone being a homemaker. I just object to everyone assuming from birth that a particular woman is going to be. If nothing else, she should have a back up career in case the guy she falls for wants to be the homemaker or she ends up as a single parent or simply single.

    80. Re:Random bits from the book... by shalla · · Score: 1

      i know you are trying to be clever reversing roles but it doesn't work. its like trying to get boys to play with dolls. force quotas do not work, its ffunny how they never try it with subjects dominated by females, like nursing or say dance. to be fair minded thats what they should be doing if they really believed such a thing would work.

      I see boys playing with dolls all the time, and I don't think anyone here mentioned quotas. Take a deep breath and try to come at this without a knee jerk reaction. You're badmouthing a book that says positive things about math... why? Because it's aimed at girls? God forbid!

      Seriously, there is nothing wrong with telling women from birth that math is cool and they can do it. Just like there's nothing wrong with watching a boy play with a doll and practice care-taking skills. They're both perfectly healthy things for kids to do. Encouraging people in positive behaviors is a good thing.

      As to your comments about quotas in subjects dominated by females, I'm currently in one (libraries), and they go out and actively recruit men to be librarians as part of the goal to get greater diversity in the field. So yes, that pretty much happens in all fields dominated by one type.

      As to why women aren't interested in math and science, the point of the book is that girls lose interest because they're told math sucks/isn't cool and Winnie's book is one small step in propaganda to counter that. I'd also like to say from my life experiences that there's a subtle discouragement in those fields from birth for most women, and over time, it just adds up and they take a path where they can do well without all the crap. That doesn't mean that can never be changed. It just means that if we, as a society, begin to see more women in those fields and stop spending so much time saying, "Women can't do that" or "don't like that" or "shouldn't do that" to them (or "Men can't/don't/shouldn't" to men--it works both ways), we'll stop indoctrinating our children with that view from birth and they'll actually believe they can and they'll want to and they will.

      And frankly, if you look at countries outside the US, you'll see that's true--there are a hell of a lot of women in math and science fields and they're really interested. So either there's something in the American water supply, or we have some cultural hang ups to work on. ;)

    81. Re:Random bits from the book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're the exact kind of fucking idiot the GP is talking about.

    82. Re:Random bits from the book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For a different point of view, I would think less of you for that, not because you're a woman or lack ambition, but because of personal experience.

      Both my parents are doctors, and my mother is even more successful than my father. She's a well respected surgeon in my city, has taught almost 30 years worth of doctors and 15 years worth of surgeons and is known by pretty much any doctor in the area. My father is also successful in a different way.

      I wouldn't think less of you because you're "wasting your time" or anything like that. In fact, now that I think about it, I don't think less of you, but I wouldn't marry you. I've dated girls with a similar outlook, and I can't imagine my children looking at their mother as "just" a housewife. Yes, I understand it's a full time job, and everything else, but I want my children to look up to both of us.

      How would my daughters know they can be anything they want when their female role model can't understand basic math? My mother helps my younger sister with all her math and physics and only rarely does she need to call me or anyone else. Even then it's often because the answer in the book is wrong and they want some confirmation that they are doing things right.

      Cute books help, and having actresses who are smart helps, but the changes come from the home and it will take multiple generations to achieve. Maybe some day it'll be common for both parents to work 6-hour days, so they can work and raise children together, but until then, we'll each have to make our own choices.

      The last girl I (briefly) dated was a grade-school teacher who couldn't spell and didn't like to read. She is the sweetest person you could ever hope to meet and I'm sure she'll be a loving wife and mother, but still I couldn't bring myself to take her seriously. I wish it was more common for women to find it ok to appear smart and to go ahead and read and learn math and science and understand how the universe works, rather than dreaming of their perfect wedding.

      I guess I just miss university, where, even if few, there were actual geek girls around.

      (Posting as AC for obvious reasons)

    83. Re:Random bits from the book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "How would my daughters know they can be anything they want when their female role model can't understand basic math?"

      Since when does looking after a family make you unable to understand basic math? My mom was mostly a home making while I was a kid. At one point she home schooled me and my brother to take the entrance exams into the top boys school at my country of residence at the time. Smart woman. She made the choice that it would be better for us kids if there was a parent at home.

      My mom went back to work after me and my brother were old enough to be left at home alone. She just sorta fell into the role of a librarian, and even though she is one of the older employees, she proved to be more cluey than her younger counter parts and is now more in management type roles.

      Where the fuck did you get "i want to stay at home == I can't understand basic math and have little ambition?" Lame.

    84. Re:Random bits from the book... by happyemoticon · · Score: 1

      As I said, I think the post is being ironic. The questions he presented are so hyperbolically stereotypical that they belong on Happy Days, not in a modern women's book, and certainly not in a modern teenage women's book. Go back and look at it. It's like watching the Stepford Wives. There's no way it could be actual excerpt.

      We should be having a good guffaw over how absurd this strikes almost anyone of modern sensibilities. And I'm saying, "You know, this here is a joke. But seriously, being a homemaker isn't bad, but if every book read like this, people would think that was the only valid way to be." I don't even necessarily disagree with what you said, I just don't think you understood the context of the discussion. Therefore, you didn't actually respond to what I was saying, but rather what you thought I was saying, making your post an insightful non-sequitar. I realize that you just had something you wanted to say and were looking for an excuse to say it, but try to find a post to respond to where you can at least mold your ideas to some degree into a sensible discussion.

    85. Re:Random bits from the book... by SIIHP · · Score: 1

      "Its called observation, check it out."

      Why doesn't it surprise me that you'd justify your prejudice as valid, while simultaneously denouncing other's prejudices.

      It's called being a hypocrite, check it out.

      --
      I only go to buffets for the unlimited soft serve.
    86. Re:Random bits from the book... by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      Me thinks, Alton sorta has a pretty good lead on that.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    87. Re:Random bits from the book... by why-is-it · · Score: 1

      Lighten up!

      Let's try a little experiment. Replace the jokes you thought I was over-reacting to with jokes that rely on out-of-date and false stereotypes about a religious or ethnic minority group. Are the jokes still funny? If I objected, would you still tell me to lighten up?

      I have a daughter. My lady works part time so she can be home with the wee one most days. We didn't base this on gender, we based it on income. If she made more I'd be home.

      And your point is?

      I'm sorry, but your personal choices have no bearing on how the original post in this thread should be interpreted.

      Oh wah.

      That's what I like about /., the enlightened and insightful debate :)

      I showed my lady the post and she laughed. It was a joke, nothing more, nothing less.

      I understand that the post was probably intended to be funny. Back in the day, white vaudeville performers wearing black facepaint were intended to be funny too, but times have changed...

      Sadly, some attitudes towards women have not.

      Political correctness is the cancer that's killing slashdot.

      People have been saying that for years, but somehow /. keeps going...

      --
      *** Where are we going? And what's with this handbasket?
    88. Re:Random bits from the book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Let's try a little experiment. Replace the jokes you thought I was over-reacting to with jokes that rely on out-of-date and false stereotypes about a religious or ethnic minority group. Are the jokes still funny? If I objected, would you still tell me to lighten up?

      Yes, they would still be funny. And I do tell people to lighten up all the time.

    89. Re:Random bits from the book... by hellchild · · Score: 1

      Well goody for you, I'm so glad your parents are "successful", too bad they weren't so successful at teaching you how not to be an arrogant ass.

      "How would my daughters know they can be anything they want when their female role model can't understand basic math?"

      Both of my parents graduated with liberal arts degrees. My mother barely passed geometry. I surpassed her (and my father) in math and science by sophmore year of high school. The first time I needed help with math was calculus. Naturally, my parents couldn't offer any help, so I had to turn to classmates. I never thought less of either parent because of this. Never did I think that I couldn't be anything I wanted! Nor was I embarrassed by the fact that neither of my parents is particularly adept at math or science. Their strengths lie in other areas. My dad's excellent in dealing with people. He's skilled at listening to them and solving problems.

      My mother stayed home to care for us as kids. She did an incredible job. I only hope that I do as well with my kids. She went back to night school when I was in high school to get a nursing degree. She had to take chemistry courses at the local cummunity college first since she didn't have those in undergrad. Sometimes I had to help her with her homework. But she graduated at the top of her class and has been a nurse for 25 years. She recently earned a "Best of the Best" in nursing award. I respect her and admire her for her achievements more than my own, one of the reasons being that it was more difficult for her. She had to work much harder than I ever did in school. It was always easy for me.

      I graduated with a BS in comp. sci. a semester before my husband graduated with the same degree. I supported the both of us. This enabled him to start his own company. When we had kids, we made the decision for me to stay home with them. I had a very lucrative job (and the only medical benefits) that was doing cutting edge OOP with a bunch of brilliant people. I don't regret the decision a bit. Do my kids think of me as "just" a housewife? Hell no. They are at ages where they can appreciate what it means that I stay home. When they need volunteers at school, I'm there. When they need homework help, it's me. Since my husband is a computer geek, too, he's at work a lot and travels frequently. So it's me who is at all the sports events and talents shows and concerts and whatnot. Sometimes it's not how smart and successful you are that makes your kids look up to you...it's listening to them and being there for them that counts. And as for believing you can be anything? That doesn't come from what your parents are, it comes from them believing in you.

      "The last girl I (briefly) dated was a grade-school teacher who couldn't spell and didn't like to read."

      Yeah, talk about arrogant and prejudiced. My husband can't spell worth squat. We suspect he's dyslexic but nobody knew about it back then. Somehow, he still managed to write a book despite this fact (that's what spellcheckers were invented for!)

      I wish it were more common for men not to be so judgemental.
      Adjust your attitude and you might have better luck with the geek girls. Or any girl for that matter.

  4. Oh Boy... by teknopurge · · Score: 4, Funny

    It even includes a horoscope, cute doodles of shoes and jewelry, and testimonials from attractive young career women that use math at work. It focuses on fractions and pre-algebra and uses mnemonics like calling a reciprocal a 'refliprocal' Time to put the plastic back on the Slashdot couches...
  5. fp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yeah i heard she was a math wiz years ago. a geeky friend of mine had a huge crush on her. i, myself, was always partial to jane leeves, gillian anderson, winona ryder and alia shawkat. oh, and of course i cant forget mila kunis.

    1. Re:fp by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "Hollywood is not known for providing a wealth of positive female role models"

      What? Plenty of good models out there...

      And if just talking about looks and all, showing fit and lean, non-obese women is a good thing. We've got a horrible obesity problem out there, so, some skinnier role models are a good thing IMHO.

      So, we now have 'thinkers' to combine with the 'lookers'...and pretty soon, we'll have perfect women if they follow their role models.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    2. Re:fp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We've got a horrible obesity problem out there, so, some skinnier role models are a good thing IMHO.

      Good thing eating disorders aren't a big deal anymore. You know, pretty non-intrusive and easily curable. Low mortality rate, too.

    3. Re:fp by R2.0 · · Score: 2

      "And if just talking about looks and all, showing fit and lean, non-obese women is a good thing. We've got a horrible obesity problem out there, so, some skinnier role models are a good thing IMHO"

      It's not a binary proposition. There is a huge range between obese (bad), and what actresses and models look like (also bad).

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    4. Re:fp by blackoutdustin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      stupid. showing overly skinny women is SO healthy for the psyche of young girls. let's make sure our math teachers have all posed for stuff magazine first...

    5. Re:fp by strength_of_10_men · · Score: 1

      And if just talking about looks and all, showing fit and lean, non-obese women is a good thing. We've got a horrible obesity problem out there, so, some skinnier role models are a good thing IMHO.

      because there are so many obese role models right now?

      there is an obesity epidemic right now and while there are a multitude of reasons for it, lack of good role models isn't one of them, IMHO

    6. Re:fp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It's not that the obese population lacks "role models" of
      slender or fit people. It that plump people lack role
      models of slenderness or fitness that actually seems
      reachable by them.

    7. Re:fp by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "because there are so many obese role models right now?

      there is an obesity epidemic right now and while there are a multitude of reasons for it, lack of good role models isn't one of them, IMHO"

      Well, I dunno about that. We just recently had stories on TV and /. about how if your parents and friends are obese, they you have a higher chance of being obese yourself.

      A childs parents should be the #1 role model in their lives, shouldn't they?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    8. Re:fp by Joebert · · Score: 1

      there is an obesity epidemic right now and while there are a multitude of reasons for it, lack of good role models isn't one of them, IMHO

      I haven't exercised since I seen Richard Simons in spandex.
      --
      Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
  6. Nice try, but... by weak* · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't think one book, even if it looks like the rest of the teen girl trash rags, is going to overcome a decades of social pressure to avoid being seen as "nerdy." What we really need is to have high schools that don't go out of their way to reinforce the perception that going to state for ****ball is the pinnacle of achievement.

    --
    The Schwartz space ain't from Spaceballs.
    1. Re:Nice try, but... by GweeDo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Good point...they should just stop trying.

      (btw, great attitude to take towards solid progressive thinking that will help women out)

    2. Re:Nice try, but... by nuzak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Obviously then they should soldier on and continue doing the same lame ineffective thing, because to do otherwise would be "to stop trying". You sound like a certain president.

      I suggest they give it a try, see how badly it flops, then try something else. Like not having to make everything "hip" and "edgy" and "way cool cowabunga dudes with jittery neon triangles". Yes, I'm showing my age -- but I bet the producers of this material are too.

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    3. Re:Nice try, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Great point. Instead of writing a book, Winnie should have changed social norms in every high school in America.

    4. Re:Nice try, but... by lawpoop · · Score: 1

      I don't think one book, even if it looks like the rest of the teen girl trash rags, is going to overcome a decades of social pressure to avoid being seen as "nerdy." Good point...they should just stop trying.

      What we really need is to have high schools that don't go out of their way to reinforce the perception that going to state for ****ball is the pinnacle of achievement. (btw, great attitude to take towards solid progressive thinking that will help women out) Um, grandparent posted an actual solution and you chide their attitude? I'm starting to think you weren't being sarcastic...
      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    5. Re:Nice try, but... by masdog · · Score: 1

      You're right. One book won't overcome decades of social pressure. But you have to start somewhere, and putting basic math in the terms that the "Clueless" and "Bring It On" type crowds is one way to show that "math isn't...like...so totally hard and pointless."

    6. Re:Nice try, but... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 5, Funny

      What we really need is to have high schools that don't go out of their way to reinforce the perception that going to state for ****ball is the pinnacle of achievement.

      OK, I'm dying to know: what sport at your high school is so unspeakably vulgar that you have to censor the name?

      And are any videos online?

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    7. Re:Nice try, but... by iknownuttin · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I don't think one book, even if it looks like the rest of the teen girl trash rags, is going to overcome a decades of social pressure to avoid being seen as "nerdy."

      I think it's more of society as a whole reducing to the lowest common denominator. It's no longer trying to strive to be educated and to better oneself, but it's now to act dumb, not try hard, talk like a moron, and become famous somehow and get the easy money. Paris Hilton is what kids strive to be: not Thomas Edison, Albert Einstein or Jack Kennedy (or whoever your favorite statesman is).

      Do kids want to dress well? No, they dress like bums. They get piercings and tattoos like bikers, strippers, drug dealers and other lowlifes. Do they try to refine their communications skills? Hell no! They talk like some ghetto uneducated slob.

      It was the same when I was growing up. The kids who dressed well and worked at school were called "preppies". Of course now, most of those "preppies" are MDs, JDs, engineers, etc.... The others, are waiting tables.

      --
      I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
    8. Re:Nice try, but... by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      The "thinking" that the original book presents so far doesn't look very progressive.

    9. Re:Nice try, but... by I+am+the+blob · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure those are wildcards, not censorship bars.

      --

      All sweeping generalizations suck.
    10. Re:Nice try, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gah! People, if you are going to use regular expressions in your speech, please use them correctly! This goes for all **AA people as well, the "*" means 0, 1, or more matches, so *** is the same as ** is the same as *, so ****ball has 3 *s too many.

    11. Re:Nice try, but... by teasea · · Score: 1

      All sports... or rather, s****ts

    12. Re:Nice try, but... by RockoTDF · · Score: 1

      Really, because when I was in high school just over 2 years ago it was the preppy kids using and dealing the drugs and idolizing celebrities like paris hilton. How a kid dresses is totally irrelevant. Communication skills on the other hand were just as good/bad across all the different cliques in the school.

      --
      There is more to science than physics!

      www.iomalfunction.blogspot.com
    13. Re:Nice try, but... by moderatorrater · · Score: 1

      Only if your striving for performance. For readability, multiple stars can help.

    14. Re:Nice try, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if they're the same, then STFU. why are you even complaining?

    15. Re:Nice try, but... by diwolf · · Score: 1

      Technically, it should be ????ball or *ball.. ****ball is redundant as * matches any number of characters already. The "?" matches a single character.

    16. Re:Nice try, but... by Valdrax · · Score: 1

      Note that this is more of a glob than a regex. A regular expression would need some character before the * to denote what is repeated 0 or more times.
      Thus, you'd have .*ball instead of *ball, or [:lower:]*ball if you want to make sure to only match lower-case letters instead of looking like garbage.

      I mean, if you're going to be pedantic, be sure to get it right!

      (Besides, who says it was meant to represent multiple sports instead of using symbols to censor a word the poster considers obscene? Incidentally, I just found out that this is patented.)

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    17. Re:Nice try, but... by operagost · · Score: 1

      Obviously then they should soldier on and continue doing the same lame ineffective thing, because to do otherwise would be "to stop trying". You sound like a certain president.
      Jimmy Carter?
      "Can't afford fuel to heat your house? Put on a sweater."
      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    18. Re:Nice try, but... by king-manic · · Score: 1

      OK, I'm dying to know: what sport at your high school is so unspeakably vulgar that you have to censor the name?

      And are any videos online? Well baseball is unspeakibly boring so maybe it's that one?
      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    19. Re:Nice try, but... by mightybaldking · · Score: 1
      Paris Hilton is what kids strive to be: not Thomas Edison, Albert Einstein or Jack Kennedy

      Why? because we don't respect smart women. First comment on this topic treated Danica as a sex object. She's worth something to us because she's hot, not because of her brain.

      As long as we men keep joking about Dr. Condoleeza Rice's appearances, rather than respecting her for her achievements, As long as we laugh at Hillary Clinton for being cuckholded, we are telling our daughters and sisters that it is more important to be a cum-bucket than a brain.

      Bill Gates looks like Prof. Frink. But no one is laughing at him for his appearance. We respect (or disrespect) him for his accomplishments.

      The women who manage to evade this negative judgement based on there appearance are totally sexless. Look at Margaret Thatcher. In order to acheive power, you must not exhibit any feminine qualities.

      Take a look at Terry Pratchett's dwarf societies for a really interesting satire of this situation. The only man I have ever seen criticised for his appearance the way a woman is is Michael Moore.
    20. Re:Nice try, but... by errxn · · Score: 1

      This will be covered in her next book, Regex Doesn't Suck.

      --
      In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
    21. Re:Nice try, but... by Vellmont · · Score: 0, Troll


      Good point...they should just stop trying.

      Why you haven't been labeled a troll, I don't understand. Please explain to be why pointing out the underlying problem, and suggesting that this solution doesn't solve the underlying problem is saying "they should just stop trying".

      --
      AccountKiller
    22. Re:Nice try, but... by Sage+Gaspar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I haven't read it, but I think the fundamental premise of the book is sound. One of my little cousins is a bit too advanced for this now, but she's one of the smartest kids I've ever met and also one of the girliest. More role models that demonstrate that the two don't have to be mutually exclusive can only be positive. Kids are more likely to take their cues from celebrities than high school teachers with the media saturation we have these days. It's the attitude that there is a necessary gulf between academics and football, academics and celebrity, or academics and being "girly" that hurts the most. In my high school we had a state championship football team, and the captain was also a lead band member and a good student. It doesn't have to be football players versus nerds... and in fact the way our society is going it might be better to encourage everyone to participate in sports more.

      As far as hooking people a little more substantively, I think she hit it on the head in the interview when she mentioned that one of the fascinations that drew her into mathematics was the infinitely large and the infinitely small. I've started off a ton of lengthy conversations introducing basic set theory and stuff to non-mathematicians just by challenging them on things like what is infinity, how do we define infinity, how do we add infinity to other numbers, matching up cardinalities with the natural numbers... The Monty Hall problem is a great one for thinking about probabilities. Kids get fascinated by imaginary numbers just because it's the first "weird" thing everyone emphasizes, so it's easy to get them playing around with some algebra like that. A high schooler taking their first "proofs" geometry can enjoy doing some non-Euclidean stuff, up to the big reveal when you tell them they're working on the surface of a sphere or whatever hehe.

      I was watching the Daily Show the other day when they interviewed the astrophysicist hosting Nova, and the guy had an infectious enthusiasm (to lift Jon Stewart's language directly hehe). If you've ever watched the Feynman lectures, it's the same sort of thing, at least for me. The more people out there from all walks of life enthusiastically promoting the accessible parts of math and science, the better.

    23. Re:Nice try, but... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I don't think this is just one lame book. There are a lot of other factors involved in movements like this. You have the stars of CSI like shows being women and they often make this stuff look cool. This book is just one addition to the movements that may be going more subtly and because of social pressure then you think.

      This book is likely just another tool to get to the girls while they are kids and can actually work toward different goals easier. The other tools seem to want to grab the attention of them and make them wonder, the beauty of this book is that it catches them before they say I wish I did something like that. And it does it in a fashion that is sure to become outdated but should catch their attention too. I'm buying a couple copies, just to give them out to people I know in the target range.

      Of course I am already seen as cool by aspiring teens, I'm not the typical geek. Looking like a cross between a cowboy and a biker who with hair down to my asscrack and a beard almost to my chest and liking the really heavy metal music, I'm proof that you don't have to look like the stereotype part in order to do the job. I have scared many of clients riding up to work on their computers, servers, networks or whatever else. Actually, that might be more of a sign that a trained monkey could do this work but I have multiple clients who claim I am the best in town. And trust me, this town has quite a bit of competition. There is no reason why you can't be who you want to be and still do what you want to do. This book just attempts to reach some people while that can make choices that don't limit their abilities later in life. They can still be beautiful bitches and know how to figure the amount of fluid of a partially filled cylinder on it's side or what sales numbers actually mean in relation to projected sales and making decisions on how to direct the companies strategy to reflect this.

      One of the interesting things I found from the article is that some of the holly wood actors are actually smart. I guess this is why you don't hear much about them outside their work. They don't do and say stupid things.

    24. Re:Nice try, but... by neutralstone · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What we really need is to have high schools that don't go out of their way to reinforce the perception that going to state for ****ball is the pinnacle of achievement. Right. I suspect that a huge step in this direction would be the dissociation of organized sports teams from schools.

      A friend of mine from Belgium was telling me that's how they do it over there. In a single high school you'll find about the same proportion of students who are athletes as in a school in the U.S., but they represent lots of different local (competing) teams.

      Apparently, it goes a long way towards preventing formations of mob mentalities and everything that goes with it.

      So e.g., there's no such thing as a school pep rally in support of one sports team and they don't even have anything like the divide between "jocks" and "nerds" (or at least, not to the extent seen in schools in the U.S.).

      I don't see it happening in the U.S. anytime soon, but who knows? It could start small, in a place with semi-rational school administrators trying to free up budgets, for example. With the promise of tax reductions, many things can gain political support. (:
    25. Re:Nice try, but... by Broken+scope · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Less and less often does clothing have any bearing on someones work ethic. The last time the clothing was washed is a better indicator.

      I've met goths with tats and piercings who are the most affable and pleasant people. I've met pressed, tucked, combed frat boys who leave me with the urge to burn down frat row, and for good measure every sorority to.

      Clothing and looks in general don't tell you much. Attitudes and other things you mentioned do.

      --
      You mad
    26. Re:Nice try, but... by plague3106 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I was with you until you started on your sterotyping rant. Preppies aren't the kids that were doing well; they were the ones who had well off parents and never had to work. Kinda like the Paris Hilton you seem to hate.

    27. Re:Nice try, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've always wanted to see a game of fuckball played live!

    28. Re:Nice try, but... by neutralstone · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure those are wildcards, not censorship bars. But if we're going to take '*' as a command-line-style wildcard, then we would expect only one '*'; i.e. '*ball'.
    29. Re:Nice try, but... by rhakka · · Score: 1

      No, that's different. Putting on a sweater will actually keep you warm.

    30. Re:Nice try, but... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Why? because we don't respect smart women. First comment on this topic treated Danica as a sex object. She's worth something to us because she's hot, not because of her brain. Possibly because she capitalises more on the former than the latter. I suspect more people are aware of her appearance than her mathematical abilities (although maybe this book will change that somewhat). I wasn't aware of either until I saw TFA earlier today. If she were not famous as an actress, would the reaction have been the same?

      Of course, some of us might just be bitter that she has a lower Erds number than us (which she does in my case, although Natalie Portman has the same).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    31. Re:Nice try, but... by highspl · · Score: 1

      Apparently no one keeps up on current events. In a number of subjects, boys are actively falling behind girls in all areas of study at the high school level. The original tests that were given to both boys and girls in the 80's and 90's were reissued, showing that now, boys are falling behind. Feminists keep the idea that the girls are behind to continue their funding, and anyone that says anything counter to that is sexist.

      Maybe we need innovation for the boys now?

      http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10965522/site/newswe ek/

      http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/31/60minu tes/main527678.shtml

      --
      It puts the lotion on it's skin, or else it gets the hose again.
    32. Re:Nice try, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...is is Michael Moore.

      That's just because he wants the rest of us to pay his medical bills caused by his fat ass.

    33. Re:Nice try, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You actually think this book might advance girls in school? When has dumbing down a subject been able to lift a student to new heights? You dumb down things for the retards so they can maybe get a job a McWhatever or MegaMart. This will do nothing to get girls more interested in, or better at math.

    34. Re:Nice try, but... by Penguinisto · · Score: 1
      Actually, what we really need is centerfold models wrapped in nothing but Cat-6e cable, ads for ladies' underthings while they prance about in a server room, etc etc...

      Okay, okay. Before you start thinking "that was pretty fscking easy to predict you perv!", that's not what I meant.

      Women, like men, are driven by what they feel to be the socially-accepted ideal. I say this for fear of generalizing, but IMHO women tend to be more influenced by these then guys are, especially teenaged girls who are constantly striving for what is apparently the societal idea of "hot". This is done to attract the opposite sex, lord it over their peers, etc etc etc.

      If brains (or at least the perception thereof) is pushed as the 'sexy' thing, and Madison Avenue subtly pushes Nerd Chic as advertisements, then it does two things - first, if encourages young girls and women to get their intelligence on, and pursue the careers that require serious brainpower. Second, it'll be perfectly applauded by nearly every women's group alive (well, not the part about a nude hottie draped suggestively over a tape library, but in all the other stuff).

      As a corollary, it'll subtly push the even dumber gender (that's us, campers) to start thinking that they have to get some intelligence in order to attract women (as opposed to the current base requirement of a ripped body complete with six-pack abdomen, an expensive car, and/or a ginormous bank account).

      While the changes would be too slow to do anything for those geeks at or around my age (or those already married, like I'm about to be), it's the least we can do for all the little nerdlets out there getting shoved around in elementary/primary school today.

      /P

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    35. Re:Nice try, but... by mightybaldking · · Score: 1

      basketball?

    36. Re:Nice try, but... by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 1

      The only man I have ever seen criticised for his appearance the way a woman is is Michael Moore.

      And Ann Coulter.

    37. Re:Nice try, but... by mightybaldking · · Score: 1

      Well, the sad truth is that if she wasn't an actor, she wouldn't be the subject of an article.

    38. Re:Nice try, but... by Joebert · · Score: 1

      Get ready to see alot more patch quilts in your closet.

      --
      Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
    39. Re:Nice try, but... by TheWizardOfCheese · · Score: 1

      great attitude to take towards solid progressive thinking that will help women out

      What exactly is so solid and progressive about this thinking? By using "testimonials from attractive young career women", the author is trying to associate something that girls already value (physical attractiveness) with something they do not (math.) How can this strategy ever result in girls valuing math above the stereotypical feminine virtues? It is like sprinkling broccoli with sugar to make it more palatable; it might get your kid to eat it, but it won't get him to prefer it over ice cream.
      --

      "The good reader is a rarer swan than the good writer."
    40. Re:Nice try, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not the typical geek. Looking like a cross between a cowboy and a biker who with hair down to my asscrack and a beard almost to my chest and liking the really heavy metal music, I'm proof that you don't have to look like the stereotype part in order to do the job. How atypical of you. I'll bet you're the life at all the cool parties.
    41. Re:Nice try, but... by computational+super · · Score: 1

      As far as hooking

      hit it on the head

      infinitely large and the infinitely small

      Huh-huh...

      Yeah, he he..

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    42. Re:Nice try, but... by sloth+jr · · Score: 1

      I don't think one book, even if it looks like the rest of the teen girl trash rags, is going to overcome a decades of social pressure to avoid being seen as "nerdy." What we really need is to have high schools that don't go out of their way to reinforce the perception that going to state for ****ball is the pinnacle of achievement.


      And she says just that in the last paragraph of the interview.

      I agree about your thoughts on high school emphasis.

      sloth jr
    43. Re:Nice try, but... by carpe_noctem · · Score: 1

      The others, are waiting tables.

      Hey man... at least we kept it real!

      --
      "Quoting famous computer scientists out of context is the root of all evil (or at least most of it) in programming." - K
    44. Re:Nice try, but... by Smauler · · Score: 1

      Bill Gates looks like Prof. Frink. But no one is laughing at him for his appearance. We respect (or disrespect) him for his accomplishments.

      Come on! You've got to be kidding me. I, for one, have laughed at Bill Gates' appearance at least 17,492 times. If you haven't, you must be a lot more mature than me. I present http://z.about.com/d/crime/1/0/P/8/gatesbill.jpg and http://autonomoussource.com/mt-static/images/nerds tud1.jpg and http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41774000/jpg /_41774012_02_group_ap416.jpg.

      I do agree that most men (including myself) judge women on their looks more than they do men, but that's because they are men, and (generally) find women more sexually attractive than men. If you speak to gay men, they are generally just as centred on looks as straight men are. The trouble is when men can't get past their initial looks based judgement.

    45. Re:Nice try, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What we really need is to have high schools that don't go out of their way to reinforce the perception that going to state for ****ball is the pinnacle of achievement.

      OK, I'm dying to know: what sport at your high school is so unspeakably vulgar that you have to censor the name? And are any videos online?
      Cuntball; and you don't want to see the video. Trust me.
    46. Re:Nice try, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think you will ever manage to. Even more being part of one.

    47. Re:Nice try, but... by zegota · · Score: 1

      The one they play when you're living at **** Mountain!

    48. Re:Nice try, but... by kalaf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When I went to school, Paris Hilton would have been "Preppy". Those were the kids who could afford nice clothing because their parents were well off. If you tried to dress nicely and fit in, they'd make fun of the fact you weren't wearing the correct brands, etc. That's where the kids dressing like bums comes from, simply not wanting to be like the stuck up rich kids.

      Yeah, I was one of them. When I was out with friends I was all those things you describe and more. We smoked, drank, did drugs, skipped school, used simple sentence structures, etc...

      Of the core group I hung out with, one became a labourer, two are tradespeople, one got a PhD in neuroscience, and I got a BSc and work as a programmer. I don't know what happened to all the biggest preppies, but I do know one became a Chiropractor (the nicest of the group by far) and became a drunk, got in a car accident (while drinking), and lost her baby.

      High school is not destiny.

    49. Re:Nice try, but... by Smauler · · Score: 1

      Of course I am already seen as cool by aspiring teens

      To be honest, anyone who says this is never ever ever going to be cool. Or wicked. Or down with the kidz. Quit your self delusion - they are humouring you. Booyakasha.

    50. Re:Nice try, but... by Reverend528 · · Score: 1

      A metasyntactic variable would've provided the most clarity; i.e. 'Fooball'.

    51. Re:Nice try, but... by adisakp · · Score: 2, Funny

      OK, I'm dying to know: what sport at your high school is so unspeakably vulgar that you have to censor the name?

      I don't know but it obviously involves getting a bunch of guys together and playing with their balls.

    52. Re:Nice try, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it could be shitball. I was forced to play that at school...oh wait, it was just a rugby ball covered in mud.
      My UK 'Comprehensive' school had 'Grammer school pretensions' and had houses (like Harry Potter only totally crap). I was in Hufflepuff^W Wolsey house, and due to a lack of volunteers was once forced to play Rugby for my house. We lost 99-0, which was a school record, and I was never asked again...

    53. Re:Nice try, but... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Nahh.. All my niece's and nephew's friends flock to me for some reason. I used to think it was because I was the giant hairy teddy bear that played back. They are in their teens now, (11-20 years old). They always want to come and hang out at my house or ask when I'm coming over. It isn't anything sexual or anything like that. and I don't try to do it. It just happens. You should see the attention I get when picking one of them up from school, Even the teachers flock to me. I had one ask me for my phone number because she wanted to make sure I was supposed to be picking my niece up, I've been dating her for the last 6 years because of it (the teacher, not my niece).

      It isn't like I'm trying to be popular or something. Wearing matching socks and a T-shirt with sleeves is what I consider dressing up. It just happens to be that kids like and me or what I am interested in for some dumb reason. IT could be the motorcycles, IT could be the old school Metallica, Jacobs Dream, or whatever is coming from the radio, It could be the computer in the van that they can play games on when going places, It could be the pickup truck that's raised 6 inches off the ground with another 2 inch body lift, 36 in tires on 16 inch wheels with a motor pushing close to 600 horse power that has a hard time getting stuck in any whole I have taken it through so far, It could be the 69 Chevelle SS I have been playing around with that has a Nitrous injected motor pushing almost 700 horse and runs high nines in the quarter mile. It could be my positive attitude around them. It could be a lot of things, that attracts them. But it does attract them. OF course unless I have dated your old lady in the past, everyone who meets me ends up liking me. Maybe I am just a likable guy and cool was an overstatement.

    54. Re:Nice try, but... by JonXP · · Score: 1

      Brockian Ultra-Cricket

    55. Re:Nice try, but... by porcupine8 · · Score: 1
      the two don't have to be mutually exclusive

      Thank you. When this article first went up, all I saw were comments about how making it girly is "dumbing it down." I'm so glad now there are more comments like this.

      I am about the girliest girl possible. I like flowing skirts and long pretty hair and freckles on my cheeks and wearing mascara and pretty colors and celebrity gossip rags and Barbie dolls and cartoony video games etc etc etc.

      I'm also an MIT graduate, currently getting a PhD, and am married to a mathematician who's teaching me linear algebra this summer because I never had time to take it as an undergrad and I think it would be fun and useful to know. It's about time girls realized you can have it both ways.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    56. Re:Nice try, but... by TALlama · · Score: 1

      Of course now, most of those "preppies" are MDs, JDs, engineers, etc

      Jack Daniels went to your school?
      --

      - The Amazina Llama

    57. Re:Nice try, but... by Jeff+Carr · · Score: 1

      The polevault?
      Just hoping...

      --
      The television will not be revolutionized.
    58. Re:Nice try, but... by Smauler · · Score: 1

      Good luck to you - I didn't mean to disparage what you have with your teenage relations. At least you have 600hp.

      Some teenagers are harder to get to than by having a cool persona, the most important ones will not come to you.

    59. Re:Nice try, but... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Haha... I just realized that we are talking about two separate types of teens. I'm not looking for the ones that need to be reached, Actually, I'm not looking for them period. I think you were talking about troubled youths in which I wasn't even considering. My toys might be enough to attract them but I wouldn't know. I'm old school and demand as much respect as I give out which means I wouldn't put up with trouble makers. Of course they could be trouble makers when they aren't around me, I wouldn't know.

      Anyways, If the book is any good, I would be giving it to about 8 people. I'm sure they might give it to someone else if they didn't think it was too lame. If it helps them, good, if not I still wouldn't think of it as waisted money. Now that I think of it, I'm already promoting math and sciences without trying to. I usually get them to help with some project and I have them figure the surface area of things and figure how many cans of paint I need and stuff like that.

      Sometimes I need them to figure out how much money I need for something by calculating the board feet in a project, how much metal I would need and so on. Currently, I am working on a go cart using the motor from a 500cc Kawasaki motorcycle that was wrecked, we drew some rough plans and I'm having the kids place some measurements on it to take it to scale. I usually have to help them do it but it frees a lot of time up for me to do something else when they help with stuff like this. And strangely, they are eager to do it. Of course they will get to play with it too.

    60. Re:Nice try, but... by Wobble-U · · Score: 1

      Are you saying that there really is the "jocks" and "nerds" thing in American schools? I don't live in the U.S. and always thought that it was just something that American TV programmes made up, because it seemed so silly!

    61. Re:Nice try, but... by dbIII · · Score: 1
      It's a start. The Australian situatuation shows what can happen. When I went to school girls were culturally conditioned not to do maths and some other subjects . There were three girls in my physics class but these same three girls found that very hard simply becuase they did not take the advanced maths class they really needed to understand the physics. There were no girls at all in that class. When I reached university there were six female students among approximately six hundred first year engineering students. It was widely recognised that not enough girls were doing mathematics and it was a problem, so a major effort started to help female students and change this.

      Now it's twenty years later and we have the problem that boys are not taking science and maths seriously enough and the girls are doing far better than the boys - it looks like after the initial kick to get things evened up and actually get the girls to take those hard subjects you have to make sure that the attitude of the boys to the subjects does not change - we seem to have a "maths is for girls - sport is for boys" attitude occuring.

    62. Re:Nice try, but... by ResidntGeek · · Score: 1

      Still matches the same, though, because * also matches the empty string.

      --
      ResidntGeek
    63. Re:Nice try, but... by neutralstone · · Score: 1

      Still matches the same, though, because * also matches the empty string. Well, yes, that's what a command line interpreter must conclude. But the actual text in question was written for people, and unlike command line interpreters we're allowed to infer meaning from style.

      That, and '****ball' is funnier if you read the stars as indicating censorship. (:
    64. Re:Nice try, but... by neutralstone · · Score: 1

      Are you saying that there really is the "jocks" and "nerds" thing in American schools? I don't live in the U.S. and always thought that it was just something that American TV programmes made up, because it seemed so silly! It varies in intensity across different localities (e.g., you tend to see it more as you move away from urban areas) and between different kinds of schools (e.g., I think it occurs more in schools funded by local governments). And yes, media programmers certainly exaggerate. But that social dynamic does exist (although the actual words "jock" and "nerd" may not be used by the young people trapped therein).

      And I think it's propped up in large part by some side effects of "School Spirit"---namely, a kind of mob mentality favoring one's home town and a desire among some to see the local athletes as kinds of heroes. "School Spirit" might be the second most popular religion in the U.S. (after nominal Christianity).
    65. Re:Nice try, but... by birge · · Score: 1

      That fact that you think a book that insults the intelligence of girls by assuming they can't handle math unless it's made "cute" enough is "solidly progressive" is pretty sad, but pretty much in line with most of what passes for "progressive" thought these days. The main achievement of modern feminism has been to solidify the notion that women are inferior by the constant institutional repetition of the idea that women need special help. I would hate to be a woman today, as the social constraints on what women are expected to do have only become more constraining, and yet also made worse by the fact that we now expect women to live the same meaningless workaday lives on which men have historically wasted their existence. Most women I know are miserable in their careers, and feel unfulfilled by them. Their barely conceiled resentment of their friends who have children is telling. True, some women are truly happy in the roles the feminists have insisted upon them, but shouldn't the point be that women are free to choose, without somebody always second guessing them, and assuming that their reasons for not being a mathematician are well founded, and not simply because somebody failed to jangle keys in front of their faces while cooing about how fun fractions can be? I guess I'm just not progressive enough to see it...

    66. Re:Nice try, but... by kayditty · · Score: 0

      I was watching the Daily Show the other day when they interviewed the astrophysicist hosting Nova, and the guy had an infectious enthusiasm (to lift Jon Stewart's language directly hehe).
      I think you mean NOVA scienceNOW, and that's Neil deGrasse Tyson.
    67. Re:Nice try, but... by Teriblows · · Score: 1

      Paris Hilton is what kids strive to be: not Thomas Edison, Albert Einstein or Jack Kennedy, nonsense, how many kids really want to be paris hilton? some might want her inheritance sure, but mostly she and other celebs are court jesters we laugh at. frankly if a kids dumb enough to want to be paris hilton they probably can't learn math in the first place. as for bill gates, don't confuse respect and respect of wealth with desirability. how many people would really want to look like bill gates ..to be him in every way. very few women i bet. especially if he were NOT rich and were just say an academic. no ones laughing at him but much of success is luck, and there are many folks just as smart as bill mathwise or even smarter like the guys who ran the other o/s competitors that bill ran over on the way to the top and people no longer remember. those people no one laugh at either, but no one cares about them now. its not so much about math as success. we respect wealth. neither condoleeza or hilary are wealthy in the way that top business figures are so they are fair game. they are a different form of celebrity really. as for sexlessness, um you cited bill gates, and he is totally sexless. but his wasn't given to him you see, thats the difference. politicians like thatcher are public celebrities and face such scruitiny. when was our last bald president for example. don't be so narrow cited that you only see problems for one sex. if a women started microsoft and was ugly and was worth billions it would be the same as bill, people would repect the wealth and not really desire the person. the only man criticized for his looks was Micheal moore? this is the selective blindness i was talking about. kerry has a long face, bush looks like a devious chimp, there are no public figures who are shielded from such mocking.

    68. Re:Nice try, but... by Sage+Gaspar · · Score: 1

      I think you mean NOVA scienceNOW, and that's Neil deGrasse Tyson.

      Yep! Thanks for the clarification, I'm not really up on my science TV hehe.

    69. Re:Nice try, but... by Smauler · · Score: 1

      I was completely tongue in cheek talking about "kid's speak" and everything, ie the booyakasha etc. What I was really referring to was the fact that kids and teenagers can and do have lives outside your influence, which generally are a hell of a lot worse than you realise. All positive influences help though, I guess - I guess I'm just disillusioned.

  7. And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If one were to bring ten of the wisest men in the world together and ask them what was the most stupid thing in existence, they would not be able to discover anything so stupid as astrology.
    - David Hilbert
    1. Re:And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1, Informative

      There actually is some degree of astronomy science in astrology, and yes, it involves math and geometry. How many of you know that Halloween falls near 15-degrees Scorpio, and what that actually means, mathematically speaking?

      If you don't, then stop talking about things you know nothing about.

    2. Re:And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by hansamurai · · Score: 1
      Well, since this book is for young women, maybe the more appropriate quote would be:

      If one were to bring ten of the wisest women in the world together and ask them what was the most stupid thing in existence, they would not be able to discover anything so stupid as men.
    3. Re:And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by kryten_nl · · Score: 3, Funny

      If you don't, then stop talking about things you know nothing about.
      The stars say: "you must be new here".
      --
      For the perfect anti-Unix, write an OS that thinks it knows what you're doing better than you do and let it be wrong.
    4. Re:And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by moderatorrater · · Score: 1

      How many of you know that Halloween falls near 15-degrees Scorpio, and what that actually means, mathematically speaking? If you don't, then stop talking about things you know nothing about. And if you believe that affects your everyday life in a very personal way, you should go find another site to read.
    5. Re:And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think whether you believe in astrology is relevant. The first maths text books I remember had anthropomorphic animals in them, and I certainly don't believe in talking sea lions, but they were used to present problems in an approachable way. I played with Numerology when I was a bit older and, while the predictions it makes are nonsense, the number patterns themselves are interesting. If the target audience is familiar with astrological horoscopes, then there's no reason why you shouldn't use them to phrase problems in an approachable way.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    6. Re:And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by rossifer · · Score: 2, Funny

      Your horoscope for today:

      Aries - certain deficiencies in your education and upbringing will lead you to the sadly mistaken belief that the location of celestial bodies can influence events in your life.

      (paraphrased from memory, originally in "The Onion")

    7. Re:And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by Joebert · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There actually is some degree of astronomy science in astrology, and yes, it involves math and geometry. How many of you know that Halloween falls near 15-degrees Scorpio, and what that actually means, mathematically speaking?


      It means there's some funky lightbeams comming from Scorpio & we need to invade it or the terrorists win.
      --
      Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
    8. Re:And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      If one were to bring ten of the wisest men in the world together and ask them what was the most stupid thing in existence, they would not be able to discover anything so stupid as astrology.
      - David Hilbert

      Considering that astrology was chief among those ancient endeavors that brought a whole raft of sciences into existence over time, I wouldn't be so quick to call it stupid.

      Misguided, perhaps. Base one's life on it? Personal choice... I'll take mine with a block of salt, thanks. Harmless? Certainly in and of itself. Stupid? No, not any more than religion would be considered stupid (before the atheists pipe up, "religion" as in: a belief system that represents a fundamental part of being human.)

      /P

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    9. Re:And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by kiwimate · · Score: 1

      I do. I also happen to know that many horoscopes today are based on positions of the stars which have since moved about two houses around the chart. This means the whole basis for those horoscopes is wrong (at least until they're bit shifted a bit). How many astrologers know this?

    10. Re:And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by Fett101 · · Score: 1

      And Scorpio effects my love live how..?

    11. Re:And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      "religion" as in: a belief system that represents a fundamental part of being human. Since when is that an agreeable definition of religion? By the way, astrology is religion so there is a direct correlation between the stupidness of the two.

      Also, while it's true that astrology is an antecedent of much of modern science, it's also true that cave painting was a forerunner to Rembrandt. Most of humanity has made substantial intellectual progress over the intervening time.
      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    12. Re:And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      I do. I also happen to know that many horoscopes today are based on positions of the stars which have since moved about two houses around the chart. This means the whole basis for those horoscopes is wrong (at least until they're bit shifted a bit). How many astrologers know this?


      I do. :) (And did before you told me).

    13. Re:And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      And if you believe that affects your everyday life in a very personal way, you should go find another site to read.


      Whether I (or anyone else) does or not, it doesn't matter. In the context of teaching math, math is math. Whether it's used for astronomy or astrology makes no difference.

    14. Re:And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by luder · · Score: 1

      Harmless? Certainly in and of itself.
      I'm not so sure about that when there are people on key positions basing their decisions on astrology. I would be specially worried if that happened at the government level. It already did on Reagan's presidency!
    15. Re:And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      "religion" as in: a belief system that represents a fundamental part of being human. Since when is that an agreeable definition of religion? By the way, astrology is religion so there is a direct correlation between the stupidness of the two.

      It is merely a rough benchmark of what I was referring to, so as to avoid miscommunication.

      It could be considered a religion (and yet at the same time it tends to be practiced across most, if not all religions).

      That said, calling it (or even religion) "stupid" would be roughly as apt as calling music in general "stupid", or visual artwork in general "stupid". Just because you or I may not think it to our taste or sensibilities, does not mean that others should automatically follow suit.

      The only stupidity in the whole affair is thinking oneself superior in dismissing any obviously subjective belief system as, well... "stupid". IT's far easier to leave well enough alone than to look like you're playing the snob card, no?

      Also, while it's true that astrology is an antecedent of much of modern science, it's also true that cave painting was a forerunner to Rembrandt. Most of humanity has made substantial intellectual progress over the intervening time. ...and yet there are still technical/modern equivalents of cave paintings that still sell for quite a lot of money... and receive highly-rated reviews by much of what comprises the art world. *shrug*. Besides, attempts to correlate past events with a cyclic variable, then trying to predict future occurrences based on the projections generated from those correlations? Well, it certainly isn't going to hurt anybody, and if computer modeling concerning Global Warming is any indication, the accuracy is about the same (e.g.: "crap") when you have so many assumptions that you're stuck working with. Granted that with time, climatology can improve and refine enough to eliminate most assumptions, but them's the breaks - and the process of correlation-to-prediction does have a source, no?

      /P

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    16. Re:And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by why-is-it · · Score: 1

      Considering that astrology was chief among those ancient endeavors that brought a whole raft of sciences into existence over time, I wouldn't be so quick to call it stupid.

      Astronomy != Astrology

      --
      *** Where are we going? And what's with this handbasket?
    17. Re:And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      Taurus
      You will never find true happiness - what you gonna do, cry about it?
      The stars predict tomorrow you'll wake up, do a bunch of stuff, and then go back to sleep
      From Your Horoscope for Today, "Weird Al" Yankovic.
    18. Re:And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only stupidity in the whole affair is thinking oneself superior in dismissing any obviously subjective belief system as, well... "stupid". IT's far easier to leave well enough alone than to look like you're playing the snob card, no?


      Easier, yes, but not as much fun.

      ... nor as honest.
    19. Re:And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by my+$anity++0 · · Score: 1

      Yes, but astronomy grew out of astrology. We wouldn't actually have cared much about the skies unless we made up all these stories and fortune tellings about it I think.

    20. Re:And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by jdigriz · · Score: 1

      While astrology is yet another branch of that vast field "crapology" which is to say, "the study of bullshit", the loction of celestial bodies does in fact influence events in my daily life. For instance, the location of the Earth in its orbit around the Sun determines whether it will be 100 degrees outside or if I will get 6 feet of snow dumped on my head. The location of the Moon determines whether or not I will be able to sail peacefully or run aground due to lack of sufficient water close to shore. And if the asteroid Apophis is a few kms away from where we think it is, then we're in for a lot of trouble (luckily, it seems not to be). Funny quote though.

    21. Re:And what do horoscopes have to do with science? by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      The only stupidity in the whole affair is thinking oneself superior in dismissing any obviously subjective belief system as, well... "stupid". IT's far easier to leave well enough alone than to look like you're playing the snob card, no? I only said the stupidness of religion and astrology are correlated. Those who think religion is or isn't stupid are likely to feel the same about astrology. I didn't actually say I thought astrology was stupid. As for me, I wouldn't really call it stupid, more like a foolish waste of time if taken too seriously.

      and yet there are still technical/modern equivalents of cave paintings that still sell for quite a lot of money... and receive highly-rated reviews by much of what comprises the art world. Are there? I'm not so sure of that. Certainly you could look at some simplistic abstract art such as Matisse's later collages and say they have about the same representational value as ancient cave paintings, however it's an apples and oranges comparison since the motivation of modern artists is very different. (presumably, I admit I can't say for certain that stone age men weren't doing study's on form and color)
      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
  8. Nah they should bring back the old Textbooks. by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If it ain't 90% Greek then it isn't a math book.
    Actually this is a good idea the problem is that today there are reports that boys are trailing girls academically. Part of the reason is if they make an All girls school or make programs that are designed to help girls they do so sometimes at the expense of the education of the boys. But if such programs or All boy public schools are made then there is a community cry. Boys and Girls think differently, they need to be taught differently.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:Nah they should bring back the old Textbooks. by DeepHurtn! · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I'm not so sure I buy your "reverse-sexism" argument. In my time at secondary school, many of the guys were too caught up in drugs, booze, and trying to get laid than academic performance. From what I noticed, girl's peer groups were more accepting of high academic performance than were groups of boys, where the social line between jock and nerd were much more strongly defined and enforced.

      Boys will never do well as a group academically as long as academic performance is seen as a social stigma.

    2. Re:Nah they should bring back the old Textbooks. by Turn-X+Alphonse · · Score: 1

      But then we have the issue with making men and women seem like different creatures (GASP we are), which is anti-PC and will trigger those lovely women to scream sexist at you.

      Lets face it, modern society wants to make a mouse and an elephant equal, sooner or later it's going to have to wake up and see it's not going to happen, but until then we all suffer for it.

      --
      I like muppets.
    3. Re:Nah they should bring back the old Textbooks. by kerohazel · · Score: 1

      Actually this is a good idea the problem is that today there are reports that boys are trailing girls academically. You know, I've heard this, but I haven't yet seen any of these reports. Care to provide some concrete examples?

      Part of the reason is if they make an All girls school or make programs that are designed to help girls they do so sometimes at the expense of the education of the boys. I fail to see how having all-girl schools harms boys' educations. Social lives, yes. ;) But I really don't think they'd be suffering academically.

      Boys and Girls think differently, they need to be taught differently. It's not just boys vs. girls, everybody thinks differently. Although this can be taken to an extreme at times, and then you get into the touchy-feely kind of "education" where there aren't even right or wrong answers anymore. But your standard public school education is very rigid and designed to fit everyone into the same mold so they can pass those standardized tests. I imagine private schools, magnet schools, or anything outside of the norm are probably a lot better at catering to individual students' needs, and that includes gender-based learning differences. Come to think of it, most every female I know who appreciates math or science spent at least some of their youth outside of the public education system.
      --
      Skype is too convoluted... Now I'm reverse-engineering the Kyoto Protocol.
    4. Re:Nah they should bring back the old Textbooks. by P3NIS_CLEAVER · · Score: 1

      I know it's newsweek but the stats seem reasonable...
      http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10965522/site/newsweek /

      --
      Please sign petition to restore sanity to our banking system!!!

      http://financialpetition.org/
    5. Re:Nah they should bring back the old Textbooks. by king-manic · · Score: 1

      I'm not so sure I buy your "reverse-sexism" argument. In my time at secondary school, many of the guys were too caught up in drugs, booze, and trying to get laid than academic performance. From what I noticed, girl's peer groups were more accepting of high academic performance than were groups of boys, where the social line between jock and nerd were much more strongly defined and enforced.

      Boys will never do well as a group academically as long as academic performance is seen as a social stigma.


      Historically when they had different ways of teaching english, history women did worse in everything. When they revised English and history to a more "critical thinking" and less "rote memorization" style they saw women did better and men did worse in those subjects. The way out males are raised or how their biology dictates (not confirmed to be either although evidence suggests the latter) we don't do as well with critical thinking and do much better at rote memorization of most things on average. This correlation implied men and women think and learn in different ways and most studdies suggests it's biological not cultural.

      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    6. Re:Nah they should bring back the old Textbooks. by nuzak · · Score: 1

      > we don't do as well with critical thinking and do much better at rote memorization of most things on average.

      Speak for yourself, factboy ... I suppose there's something to be said about all the football and baseball statistics all my friends (male) know off the top of their heads. But I'm the guy who analyzes everything to death while being constantly being reminded about appointments and dates and events by my gf.

      I think it has something to do with the classroom setting itself, which is undermined by the social dynamics of groups of young boys. I don't pretend to have any solutions there, but unsubstantiated handwaving about "biological learning differences" isn't much help either. I'm sure differences do exist, but you still have to do better than just say they exist and leave it there.

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    7. Re:Nah they should bring back the old Textbooks. by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      Part of the reason is if they make an All girls school or make programs that are designed to help girls they do so sometimes at the expense of the education of the boys.

      I'm with you 100%. However, one of the things I like about this book is that it tries to build girls up without tearing down boys. I don't mind helping out one if it's not detrimental to the other.

      Similarly, I'd kind of like to see someone like Derek Jeter telling boys that education is important. "Sports are fun but you have a one in a million chance of playing pro ball, so study!"

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    8. Re:Nah they should bring back the old Textbooks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No-one cares about my 2 cents, but I can attest that girls and boys are very different (when they are between 2 and 6 years old). I worked with a lot of them, and it is *very* clear that there is a difference in the way of thinking.

      Btw, there are also huge differences in the way of thinking in same-sex group, so I don't think it is a valid argument to ask for different education based on gender, but the point is that people are hardwired differently, and trying to get them learn the same way isn't very smart.

    9. Re:Nah they should bring back the old Textbooks. by mdarksbane · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure there have been a few studies that show girls are more likely to try to hide their intelligence or high scores.

      In my experience? Guys are more likely to fully split out into predefined clique definitions of nerd or jock. But they have a social support system within that clique. I mean, if there are six nerdy guys who get together to hang out and play video games, the only thing that makes them less social than the six friends who play football is that girls will occasionally go out with the football players.

      Nerds or jocks, guys seem to go out far enough to stick together and encourage each other in their interests. I've seen much less of that among girls who are nerdy - they are either trying to hide it at least somewhat or are almost complete outcasts with maybe one friend.

      Of this is all a blatant generalization based on my personal experience.

    10. Re:Nah they should bring back the old Textbooks. by king-manic · · Score: 1

      Speak for yourself, factboy ... I suppose there's something to be said about all the football and baseball statistics all my friends (male) know off the top of their heads. But I'm the guy who analyzes everything to death while being constantly being reminded about appointments and dates and events by my gf.

      Notice the words "on average". exceptions do occur.

      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    11. Re:Nah they should bring back the old Textbooks. by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 1

      We've done a good job teaching women that dumb, submissive and inferior is no way to go through life, but people forgot that the lesson applies to men as well. Now you people are whining that girls are getting special treatment, when the real reason is eroding standards for mental discipline (not to be confused with behavioral discipline) and the use of medication as a crutch.

      The market doesn't care about your thinking style or attention span, the market cares about results. Most of us had no problem excelling in the female-dominated public education system, despite all the stereotypical geek traits. Don't expect anything to change for failing boys - they've already had thousands of years of special treatment. They'd better just get used to saying "yes ma'am".

    12. Re:Nah they should bring back the old Textbooks. by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      >they do so sometimes at the expense of the education of the boys.

      This is only somewhat related, but this might be a perception issue. I just read an interesting book called "Language Myths" about linguistics. One of the things they were talking about was how much women and men speak, and what sort of topics they talk about, for which many of the studies had been done by videotaping schools and schoolteachers. It then went on a tangent about how much more time teachers, male and female alike, spend talking to boys than to girls, even when they're told that they're doing so and are consciously trying to spend more time talking to girls. So, rather than leave the whole works up to observation, the study people got teachers to actually precisely time what they were doing and organize their communications such that they were spending as precisely as possible half their time helping girls, and half helping boys. Then the study people surveyed everyone involved, and *everyone*, teachers, girls, and boys, thought the teachers were spending *far* too much time talking to the girls. As one of the study authors said, "it appears the amount a boy talks is calculated by comparing to other boys talking, and the amount a girl talks is calculated compared to her being silent." So, when we think that a specific education program is concentrating on girls at the expense of boys, it's quite possible we're seeing stuff that's not there.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    13. Re:Nah they should bring back the old Textbooks. by Hagatha · · Score: 1

      What the heck kind of math are you studying? My math books are mostly Latin and Arabic. Maybe 5% Greek, tops.

  9. More importantly by proverbialcow · · Score: 2, Informative

    There's a hot female geek

    Rock-paper-scissors will have to decide this, guys.

    --
    The only surefire protection against Microsoft infections is abstinence. - The Onion
    1. Re:More importantly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only on Slashdot does a link to a picture of a hot girl get modded "Informative."

    2. Re:More importantly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >>Only on Slashdot does a link to a picture of a hot girl get modded "Informative."

      Only on Slashdot does a link to a picture of a petrified hot girl with grits on her get modded +5 "Shazzzammmm!!!"

    3. Re:More importantly by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      Rock-paper-scissors will have to decide this, guys.

      Good ol' rock. Nothing beats that.

    4. Re:More importantly by pimpimpim · · Score: 1

      Can I bring my own carbon-nanotube enhanced paper?

      --
      molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
    5. Re:More importantly by tfoss · · Score: 1
      --
      -=-=- Quantum physics - the dreams stuff are made of.
  10. Outliers ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most people cannot distinguish an outlier from the the average.

  11. Am I the only one peeved... by gargletheape · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...that a book aimed at increasing numeracy has horoscopes? What next? Feng Shui in geography texts?

    1. Re:Am I the only one peeved... by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Perhaps the horoscopes give some advice on studying - we all know horoscopes give random good advices based on random data.

      Or perhaps it was just a stupid decision.

    2. Re:Am I the only one peeved... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What next? Feng Shui in geography texts?

      I'm pretty sure that most geography texts don't mention China at all.

    3. Re:Am I the only one peeved... by Planesdragon · · Score: 1

      Yes.

      Not everyone who learns math has apples, flagpoles, or even handles physical money.

      Feng Shuei could be a good hook to geometry, if you're willing to break the rules and just make it conform to the lesson.

    4. Re:Am I the only one peeved... by Its_My_Hair · · Score: 1

      Come to think of it, my son's first grade math text is filled with pictures of wizards, animals driving cars and other absurd teaching tools. Crazy!

      Horoscopes can be used as a teaching tool, doesn't mean it lends anything to its validity.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horoscopes

    5. Re:Am I the only one peeved... by Selfbain · · Score: 1

      What is the horoscopes read like "I see a trailer in your future if you don't study harder."

      --
      Well, it has never been successfully tested.
    6. Re:Am I the only one peeved... by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      I'm kind of peeved that you're so close-minded you think a little teeny bit of creativity is terrible. If the horoscopes (undoubtedly treated more as a spoof or joke than a serious prediction!) helps the material, then by all means, have horoscopes. Similarly, if you want to present geography material using Feng Shui rules to outline the discussion, then go for it.

    7. Re:Am I the only one peeved... by Abreu · · Score: 1

      As someone already posted above, creating a classical astrological chart requires geometrical knowledge of at least a high school level.

      --
      No sig for the moment.
  12. what the.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It even includes ... and testimonials from attractive young career women that use math at work

    Or as geeks call it, PORN!

    1. Re:what the.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It even includes ... and testimonials from attractive young career women that use math at work

      Or as geeks call it, PORN!


      You do?
  13. Cyberchase by mikeee · · Score: 1

    My six-year-old daughter is currently enthralled with Cyberchase, a PBS cartoon that actually does a pretty respectable job teaching basic math concepts. Her singing of its repetitive and insanely peppy themesong is driving my out of my mind, though.

    1. Re:Cyberchase by MollyB · · Score: 2, Funny

      > Her singing of its repetitive and insanely peppy themesong is driving my out of my mind, though.

      Clearly so, but it could be worse: "99 Bottles of Beer on the Wall" is illustrative of subtraction, but somewhat tedious if one is not an actual red-eyed participant.

    2. Re:Cyberchase by king-manic · · Score: 1

      Clearly so, but it could be worse: "99 Bottles of Beer on the Wall" is illustrative of subtraction, but somewhat tedious if one is not an actual red-eyed participant.

      My little sister got hooke dsingin "this is the song that never ends.." I wished it was legal to euthanize her after the first hour.

      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
  14. TTIWWP by El_Smack · · Score: 3, Funny

    This tread is worthless without pics... of hot, math using girls. /whaddaya mean, wrong website?

    --


    There are 01 kinds of cars in the world. The General Lee, and everything else.
    1. Re:TTIWWP by pla · · Score: 1

      And what happened to the "-1, no boobies" mod?

    2. Re:TTIWWP by sjf · · Score: 1

      Well, I foolishly went the the www.winnie-cooper.com website and got some interesting links that mght satisfy you. I've not embedded the URL for obvious reasons, although IMO the link is SFW, I just doubt that what it links to is SFW.

    3. Re:TTIWWP by tgd · · Score: 1

      Hell, its worthless without pictures of Blossom and Winnie making out...

    4. Re:TTIWWP by Aerion · · Score: 1
  15. Let me be the first to say: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OMG!!! Math!!!

  16. I loved UCLA... by Otter · · Score: 1

    There'd be Olympic medalists and ex-porn actresses in your sections, retired musicians joining your lab, grad students selling their screenplays and quitting the lab...

    1. Re:I loved UCLA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And we're all so happy for you.

  17. "OMG Ponies" is not just cute ... by Gopal.V · · Score: 2, Insightful

    My first impression of the book review was - "Oh gawd, a math book went 'OMG Ponies !!111'".

    But I've sort of realized that form follows emotion and in a world where Math is not consider cool (not in India though), something like this which stands away from the boring beige world of mathematics would get more eyeballs into the basic subject. Not that I'd consider some of it boring, by any stretch of imagination. And who hasn't rewritten math problems into "real" problems ? (xkcd has become lame of late - I suspect after his visit to MIT).

    But such wedges into the insular cracks of things could be nice - to let people burn through the "Thou Suckest" phase of learning anything new. Especially when the field is full of elitist fifty year olds ("elite" is good, "elitist" is bad).

    So if it makes a bunch of girls pick up math, good - just the same way Asterix&Obelix makes me want to learn French ... we all just need a reason, to make whatever we're doing cool (ah, the tyranny of cool).

    1. Re:"OMG Ponies" is not just cute ... by Coryoth · · Score: 1

      But I've sort of realized that form follows emotion and in a world where Math is not consider cool (not in India though), something like this which stands away from the boring beige world of mathematics would get more eyeballs into the basic subject. The catch is that in doing so you tend to dilute the actual math content. Math can be interesting, but we tend to spend too much time (which is to say 100% of the time) on the nitty gritty details without ever bothering to properly survey the big picture. As I wrote in an essay, if we taught English and literature in the same way you would spend 100% of your time memorising spelling and diagramming sentences, and absolutely no time actually reading novels, or poetry, nor discussing what any of ti means. This is a pervasive and corrosive approach, and it has polluted the general perception of math to the point where people have trouble realising what mathematics really is -- they mistake math for the long array of facts about math , and have no idea what doing math actually means. As hard as it may be, finding the part of math that is actually interesting, rather than dressing it up in fancy clothes, is a better way to go. I'm not averse to a little window dressing to initially get people to pay any attention to the subject, but you fairly quickly have to drop that, or else they'll mistake the window dressing for the subject itself.
    2. Re:"OMG Ponies" is not just cute ... by vigmeister · · Score: 1

      Math is not consider cool (not in India though), I am not entirely sure when/where in India you were educated, but given my experiences from '88 - '03, mathematics is definitely NOT COOL. Notwithstanding that I played cricket and soccer for the school, my grades were definitely something I hid from people for as long as possible when I did well. When I got selected for olympiads in math/CS and stuff, I tried not to tell people about it while bragging about my exploits in the previous day's post-school cricket match. MATH IS SO NOT COOL!! I would have been the first to smack anybody who suggested a math club right in the face... although this teacher started one and appointed me captain :( The fun part was that being a nerd was like a secret alternate persona... and I loved it!

      just the same way Asterix&Obelix makes me want to learn French Ok... now you're just empowering them nerds who show off their Japanese skillz while they walk around dressed like Pikachu. What you think is 'cool' needs to align with what everyone thinks is 'cool'... otherwise, keep it your little dirty secret. Doing otherwise is not good for anyone...

      Cheers!
      --
      Atheist: Buddhist in a Prius
    3. Re:"OMG Ponies" is not just cute ... by DannyO152 · · Score: 1

      I sense the guiding hand of an editor making the book commercial. Look, the woman has mastered upper-division mathematics where the concepts are expressed and proved notationally. Refliprocals? (Now watch as I discover that it how she learned them in junior high.)

      I'm all for the positive message "you can do this and you belong here." I abhor all the manifest and subtle varieities of gender determinism I saw in public education in my day, e.g., the girls in home ec. and the boys to woodworking. There is a potential undermining message in approaches like these, where the material has to be recontexualized in order for it to be relevant and accessible. These reworkings may suggest that one would not be interested if the presentation was traditional (even though the author did succeed when the questions were about trains travelling towards each other and selling mixed nuts.) At some point chemistry is more than making things go boom. Do approaches like these provide some kids an access point to a better future they would have missed with a drier presentation or does having fun with the material merely delay by a few years when the "outta here" moment takes place?

      But I'm 50, so maybe this is me being elitist.

    4. Re:"OMG Ponies" is not just cute ... by that+IT+girl · · Score: 1

      It makes me so glad I'm not cool :)

      --
      10 FILL MUG WITH COFFEE
      20 DRINK COFFEE
      30 GOTO 10
  18. "Attractive young women" by siwelwerd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It even includes a horoscope, cute doodles of shoes and jewelry, and testimonials from attractive young career women that use math at work.

    So what, the ugly ones don't use math?

    1. Re:"Attractive young women" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "positive female role models?" I did a google image search and posing in a bra and panties in Stuff magazine doesn't a role model make.

    2. Re:"Attractive young women" by Cervantes · · Score: 1, Funny

      It even includes a horoscope, cute doodles of shoes and jewelry, and testimonials from attractive young career women that use math at work.

      So what, the ugly ones don't use math?

      Probably not as much, it's not like they need to worry about memorizing and reciting 7-digit numbers...
      --
      If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
    3. Re:"Attractive young women" by lawpoop · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Do you *ever* see ugly people in any kind of media or presentation? Or, do you ever see ugliness in any kind of presentation that is successful?

      Who would want to identify with that photo as the target audience, anyway? "Oh, I'm ugly, just like the woman in that photo. I should study harder in math!"

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    4. Re:"Attractive young women" by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So what, the ugly ones don't use math?

      You're looking at this backward. Girls are told they're supposed to aspire to beauty above all else. The idea here is to show them that you can have that without giving up intelligence.

      A single voice isn't going to tell girls that they shouldn't want to be pretty. One well-spoken voice might convince a few that they can be pretty and smart.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    5. Re:"Attractive young women" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what, the ugly ones don't use math?

      The ugly girls like looking at attractive women, just like the attractive girls (and, for that matter, boys) do.

      Now, where's the Psych 101 textbook for Slashdot-age boys so that they can learn this stuff?

    6. Re:"Attractive young women" by edunbar93 · · Score: 1

      No, the point is that the perception is that women who use math in their careers are nerdy types that are ugly. And no girl wants to be ugly. Actually, the way girls are socialized (typically by their peers during high school) is that being pretty and attracting boys is pretty much all there is to life. Some girls resist that and have better aspirations, but they're basically the nerdy outcasts.

      But you wouldn't know anything about that, would you?

      --
      "No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
    7. Re:"Attractive young women" by hax0r_this · · Score: 1

      Someone please mod that hilarious

    8. Re:"Attractive young women" by hax0r_this · · Score: 1

      One well-spoken voice might convince a few that they can be pretty and smart.

      The real problem is the messed up standards of attractiveness in American high schools (and I'm sure it trickles down to younger grades too). What smart girl would want to walk around looking like some sort of scantily clad makeup covered blowup doll?
    9. Re:"Attractive young women" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've never watched RMS give a speech, have you?

      (or, s/"RMS give a speech"/"Ron Jeremy in a porno")

    10. Re:"Attractive young women" by Digana · · Score: 1

      So what, the ugly ones don't use math?

      If we are selling mathematics, then we need to merchandise. And this is what this book is doing. It's a sales pitch. "Hey, do mathematics, and you can be attractive too while you do it!" As far as I know, every person wants to be attractive, regardless of whether they are or not (and imho, attractiveness comes when people work hard to get it). You want to make mathematics appear sexy, then you need to put sexy people next to it. Judging by the teen magazines that this book is trying to emulate, a preoccupation with appearance is a good sales pitch. If we manage to sell mathematics along with beauty, why not?

      We don't need any more reinforcement of the notion that plain women can be mathematicians. Look at portraits of Noether, Ladyzhenskaya, or de Germain. They're all quite plain. Coupled with the notion that mathematics is masculine, dorky, and, well, ugly, there's quite a stereotype here to battle against.

    11. Re:"Attractive young women" by porcupine8 · · Score: 1
      I used to volunteer with a group who would bring 11-13 year old girls to MIT for the day and do a bunch of science/math/engineering activities with them, led by mostly female undergrads/grad students/researchers. One of the mothers sent us a letter afterwards saying that her daughter had always liked math and science, but since she started middle school her interest had been declining. After our program, you know what she told her mom? "I didn't know there were women who wear cool nail polish colors AND like math!"

      This is the kind of thing that gets preteen girls' attention, for better or for worse.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    12. Re:"Attractive young women" by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      What smart girl would want to walk around looking like some sort of scantily clad makeup covered blowup doll?

      One that actually wants to have a relationship with a man?

    13. Re:"Attractive young women" by notorious+ninja · · Score: 1

      haha, but it is somewhat of a stereotype that women in engineering are ugly.

      To young girls, appearance is important... very important. I probably never would have gotten into IT if I didn't start making "pretty website layouts" and exchanging blog comments with other 12 year old girls on the internet. None of my friends were interested in computers, and the one or two guys I knew who liked computers at my middle school were really quite weird.

      It might sound stupid to some of you guys out there, but I think females don't go into math/engineering/IT as much is because we can't relate to the culture (and frankly, it just doesn't occur to some of us - in high school, I was encouraged to go into something "softer" like English, because staring at a computer screen all day is "boring" and "lonely"). At a lower level it isn't such a big difference (like in comp sci 101), but at higher levels, in my Master's program, and at work I'm almost always the only girl. A lot of times (most of the time), I don't "fit in."

      A book aimed at preteen girls, if it's done well, obviously isn't going to "revolutionize" education, but it will help some girls feel like they fit in better and maybe even get their friends interested. To a 12 year old, that's very encouraging.

    14. Re:"Attractive young women" by kripkenstein · · Score: 1

      "A single voice isn't going to tell girls that they shouldn't want to be pretty. One well-spoken voice might convince a few that they can be pretty and smart."

      And this is why women are so totally screwed by modern (western) society. Once they had to be good mothers, nowadays they have to be both good mothers and have good careers. Once they had to be pretty, nowadays they have to be (according to what you just said) both pretty and smart (of course it isn't just you, it is society as a whole).

      Women have traditional expectations of them - be mothers, be pretty - and additional expectations are being added on. This creates a terrible burden, in a very disproportionate way in comparison to men.

      (I am a guy, btw.)

    15. Re:"Attractive young women" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > One well-spoken voice might convince a few that they can be pretty and smart

      Wait, so she's African American?

    16. Re:"Attractive young women" by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 1

      Sure, we just have to be smart, tough, fit, always a shoulder to lean on but never need one, support our parents when they get old, our wives even after they divorce us, and show up to work and do our jobs every day because if we ever need assistance from the government, forget about it unless you figure out how to pass a kid through your prostate.

      Whatever man, everyone's got it tough.

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    17. Re:"Attractive young women" by Teriblows · · Score: 1

      merchandise? do boys need to be told that Einstein was a hot stud? lol:) even most male scientists and math folks are ugly. frankly ask most young boys what they want to be...they'll tell you something like jet fighter pilot or baseball star, not einstein. putting a tv actress and model as an example is insulting really. any girl smart enough to want to learn math could see right through it. lying to kids doesn't work for for anti drug programs...abstinence...and well..math is "hot" agendas.

    18. Re:"Attractive young women" by KnowledgeKeeper · · Score: 1

      Sure you do...it's known as "before and after" presentation :)

      --
      It is always better to be a first grade version of yourself than a second grade version of someone else.
  19. Mod Parent Informative by mpapet · · Score: 1

    Completely true. Here's one shining example. http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/news/2007/mar/01/ev olution_professor/

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
  20. Horoscopes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Aren't logic and rationality integral to math? I would think that horoscopes contradict that basic reasoning.

  21. I'd let her extend MY superfactorial! by cthellis · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'd also generalize HER polylogarithm!

    1. Re:I'd let her extend MY superfactorial! by soulsteal · · Score: 1

      There we were, going at it hard. I was deriving her real good from behind when I slipped out and accidentally divided by zero.

      She was so pissed...

    2. Re:I'd let her extend MY superfactorial! by strcpy(NULL,... · · Score: 1

      Then she asked me whether we could try the pigeon principle.

      I told her "It'll take more mathematicians than you think, baby".

      --
      echo 'cat sig | sh' > sig
    3. Re:I'd let her extend MY superfactorial! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like to get a hold of her inner product space!

  22. Danica McKellar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who else thinks she is hot?

  23. Gap? What gap? by Myrkridian42 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When I graduated high school, the top ten students that year were girls. That was true at 3 other high school graduations I went to that year. When I graduated college, the valedictorian and salutatorian were female. I don't believe these were rare cases. So what's this "gap" they talk about? Seems to me the guys are falling behind.

    1. Re:Gap? What gap? by ohearn · · Score: 1

      I remember seeing the results of a study a year or two ago (sorry, I can't remember the source) that showed that the mean intelligence for men and women was about the same, but the standard deviation was a good bit larger for men. Basically, average intelligence is the same for both groups, but real genius (as well as drooling idiots-> gee that explains so much) are much more likely to be men than women.

    2. Re:Gap? What gap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My high school and colleges were the same way - the students at the top were female. As for the rest, I don't know... This math-book writing chick seems a hell of a lot smarter than I am (I completely fail at math), and people keep calling me a genius.

      Then again, I'm surrounded by people who used to install Gator and Bonzi Buddy on their computers. I guess compared to them... :P

    3. Re:Gap? What gap? by k_187 · · Score: 1

      And what were their majors? This is less about improving girl's lot in education and more about getting them into areas that are traditionally male.

      --
      11 was a racehorse
      12 was 12
      1111 Race
      12112
    4. Re:Gap? What gap? by Gablar · · Score: 1

      I think parent is right and this article seems to confirm it. It also relates to this article that I read the other day. The article is called "Ten Politically Incorrect Truths About Human Nature", pretty good although some of the thing it says are very politically incorrect, it rings true. How it relates to this topic is that this article states that Polygamy favors women while monogamy favors man, since men seem to have a larger "fitness margin". So while few will be fit enough to mantain many women, that will in turn take away from the rest of the guys that are less fit, thus less attractive to women.

      --
      It's all about finding better ways
    5. Re:Gap? What gap? by shalla · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So what's this "gap" they talk about? Seems to me the guys are falling behind.

      Let's see. This was a while ago, but of the top ten in my graduating class, two were male. They both had science and math majors. Of the eight women, only four of us did. Both of the guys have gone on into science and math heavy fields (MD and engineer). Of the women, only two did (veterinarian and dentist). So there is a gap in achievement when you look at that for math and science.

      Why do I think that is? Well, I graduated high school with majors in math, science, social studies, and French. In college, I ended up with a history major and minors in anthropology and religious studies, but I took a number of math and science and comp sci courses for fun. I still love math and science. Numbers still are magical to me, and playing around with them to see what they can do can waste hours... But looking back, I realize I ended up focusing on areas where my abilities were treated less like a fluke and more like actual talent. I had higher science and math GPAs and took more science classes than the guys in my high school class (and helped them with studying and homework) and they got the science and math awards. I got the English and Humanities awards. (English? Have you seen my grammar? Seriously, it got lost somewhere around second grade.) The same thing continued in college, with certain professors (not all) handing out puzzles in math classes where I was one of two girls and acting surprised when I worked them out. Like I hadn't aced the last four tests in the class while quietly passing notes to my friends and keeping the freshmen in front of us quiet when they started to get bored and act up.

      So women can achieve all they want, but it doesn't necessarily mean they aren't going to face subtle discouragement along the way that eventually does end in a gap. I'm a librarian who works with computers, which I guess is my way of compromising and getting to handle a wide variety of topics while still playing with math and science a bit. I play with my little electrical kits at home and build my own computers and whatnot, and I'm happy with my life, but I also suspect that had I been male, I might have gone for math or science as a career instead of a hobby because I wouldn't have been constantly getting the overlooked treatment.

      Or maybe not. Still, it's hard for me to discount 20-some years of subtle discouragement in some areas and encouragement in others as having no impact on my life choices.

    6. Re:Gap? What gap? by Toon+Moene · · Score: 1

      > So what's this "gap" they talk about? Seems to me the guys are falling behind.

      That's what you observe when girls *are* involved - when they're absent (like in my college years), you'll just don't notice the general lack of excellence.

    7. Re:Gap? What gap? by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Or in the case of high schoolers, what classes did they take? When I graduated, there were several 4.0's in my graduating class. While they were certainly smart, they weren't risk takers when it came to their GPA, to the point where they wouldn't take AP or advanced courses if they didn't think they could get an A in it. I can only wonder how that worked out for them.

  24. what's the point by 7macaw · · Score: 1

    What is the point of forcing (or "encouraging") people to learn mathematics at all? Those who want to learn it, can use regular textbooks because the subject is interesting by itself, without horoscopic bastardizations. And those who don't want to learn -- well, there are some 3 billion people in Asia whose children do learn ;)

    1. Re:what's the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm included to agree. My mom was a math major, and obviously didn't need any extra encouragement. If they don't want to learn, fine. It leaves more room for those who actually like mathematics.

    2. Re:what's the point by 1729 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What is the point of forcing (or "encouraging") people to learn mathematics at all? Those who want to learn it, can use regular textbooks because the subject is interesting by itself, without horoscopic bastardizations. And those who don't want to learn -- well, there are some 3 billion people in Asia whose children do learn ;)

      The concern is that some segments of the American population (women and some ethnic groups) might be discouraged from doing math. I've seen this first-hand. Several years ago, I spent a year working in high school math classes as part of an NSF graduate teaching fellowship, and I saw that remedial classes had a disproportionate number of black students. The troubling part was that many of these students were capable of much more, and really didn't belong in remedial classes. Now, I have no idea why this was the case; it could be part "institutionalized racism", it could be due to socioeconomic factors, or it could have been something else entirely. But on more than one occasion, I had students make comments along the lines of: "we're black; we don't do math." Seriously. Now, maybe these students were just trying to get out of doing their homework, but I got the impression that they really saw academic achievement (particularly in math) as a "white thing."

      I'm not one to advocate diversity in an academic field solely for the sake of diversity. Math doesn't depend on the race or gender of the mathematician. However, if there are students who are being discouraged from studying math in some way or another because of their gender, or race, or socioeconomic status, then that troubles me greatly, and it's something that we should work to change.
    3. Re:what's the point by moderatorrater · · Score: 1

      I would agree with you, but the change has to come from those doing the discouraging, because encouraging one group more than another is the same as discouraging another group. In other words, promoting women can (and has) led to boys falling behind academically. Fixing the gap isn't the responsibility of those who aren't perpetuating it, especially when it comes at the cost of another group.

    4. Re:what's the point by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      Its probably that belief that keeps them poor and in remedial classes.

      This doesn't apply to just blacks... it seems poor and stupid go hand in hand. They're all probably capable of more too, but are just too stupid to realize that being stupid will hold them back..

    5. Re:what's the point by 7macaw · · Score: 1

      True, but I think it would be more productive to stop the discouraging -- by prohibiting television, for example ;)

      Seriously, this type of watered down, glamorized, "math can be fun" books just reinforce the idea that school-level mathematics is something only a few nerds can master. No it isn't, anyone can learn what the cosine is or how to add fractions -- it just takes a few days of practice, that's it. But of course, you'd be considered doubleplusuncool if you actually do practice these things. And while cool people on TV/movies show off their ignorance, this will never change.

      So yeah, ban TV!

    6. Re:what's the point by 1729 · · Score: 1

      I would agree with you, but the change has to come from those doing the discouraging, because encouraging one group more than another is the same as discouraging another group. In other words, promoting women can (and has) led to boys falling behind academically. Fixing the gap isn't the responsibility of those who aren't perpetuating it, especially when it comes at the cost of another group.

      My concern is that some segments of the population are, in some way or another, being discouraged from studying math and science. Aside from that, I'm not interested in making the demographic makeup of the math and science community match that of the population as a whole.

      You're absolutely right about boys falling behind girls academically. That's certainly something to be concerned about. However, math and the physical sciences are still male-dominated. I don't care that math and science are male-dominated, per se: if it were the case that men are just inherently more interested in science, then there would be no point trying to artificially change this, but if girls and young women are somehow being discouraged from studying math and science, then that's something that we should work to change.
    7. Re:what's the point by 1729 · · Score: 1

      Seriously, this type of watered down, glamorized, "math can be fun" books just reinforce the idea that school-level mathematics is something only a few nerds can master.

      You might be right. Overall, I agree with you; rather than encouraging people to study math, we should make sure that people aren't being discouraged for studying math.
    8. Re:what's the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So if I'm oppressing you and telling you you suck at something, no one else is allowed to encourage you because it might discourage someone else? I'll just have to magically get over my little snit all by my self (with no reason to do so) so you can begin to excel.

      That's some messed up reasoning there.

      By that reasoning you would be expecting the oppressors to self-correct. In cases where they don't realize they are oppressing, that's going to be very difficult for them to come to the realization they're even doing it alone. In cases where they are very aware of it, they have often already made the choice to do this because it is good for them, and there is no incentive to change.

      There's nothing wrong with encouraging one group so long as you are not doing it at the expense of another. Telling a girl or woman that she is good at math is good. Tell a boy the same thing. You're making the assumption that any encouragement has to be done at the expense of some other group, which isn't so.

      And if it makes you feel better, I've had people say to me, "We should grade the boys easier on the stories because they have a harder time with English." So the encouragement/discouragement thing sadly does work both ways, and it works badly both ways. (No, don't grade the boys easier in English. Don't grade the girls easier in math. Grade them the same and tell them both that they have the potential to do well and you'll help them do what it takes to get there.)

    9. Re:what's the point by kramulous · · Score: 1

      You should never teach to the brightest students. If they are actually as bright as they think they are, or that the parents think they are, they do not need any instruction. They will discover for themselves.
      ,br.Instead, you should teach to the lower/middle end. That is where the most impact can be made. This is what is occurring with this book. That, and certain stigmas surrounding mathematics need to be changed.

      --
      .
    10. Re:what's the point by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      : "we're black; we don't do math." I read this comment a week ago and it has been troubling me ever since. I keep imagining what I would do if I was teaching and I heard that. So here's what I came up with:

      I would probably ask the student out to the hall for this one. I would say, with an academic tone, "Did you know that there is a term for that? An old term. For a black man who doesn't read or write?" Give him a chance to answer. And if he doesn't get it, tell him the word is "Slave." Say it cooly, frankly, not like it was a well-planned attack. Ask him to look into that classroom and answer "Who do they have to thank for being there? Mom? Dad? " Perhaps suggest "Abraham Lincoln for freeing the slaves?" then prompt him "What is Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. doing right this minute?" Naturally, he is dead. But the right answer is "rolling over in his grave." "Why is Dr. King dead? Because he is a martyr." Explain that "Dr. King died so that you could be in this classroom. Imagine that? Somebody who never knew you gave up their hopes, dreams, friends, family... so that you had a chance to learn. And you are throwing it away. I sure would not want to die to give somebody the right to spit in my face." Tell him he can be disrespectful, he can fail, he can do whatever. But he should not disrespect every hard working black engineer on the planet. Tell him that every black man who struggled, worked hard, and overcame prejudice to be successful just had a chill go down their spine. Tell him that his words are like the crack of a whip on their backs. Tell him that his people fought for a hundred years for the right to be educated, and he owes it to generations of black Americans to do his best.

      Yeah, the kid would probably punch me if I said all that. But dammit, I can't help but feel like the chill from his comment could end global warming.

      I'm not sure if you still teach, but I was googling for famous black engineers and I came across Eric Clark who won an award for his work at NASA. He happens to also mentor high school students. If you still know where this misguided kid is, join LinkedIn and give Eric Clark a call.
  25. Um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    'refliprocal' ...okay, that just made me dumber
    1. Re:Um... by Mayhem178 · · Score: 1

      Like, OMG! 'refplirocal' is, like, totally in right now! Get the 411, like, totally!

      .....holy shit, I did not just say that. I think I've been infected with stupid. Please.....kill.....me.......

      --

      "You will pay for your lack of vision..." - Emperor Palpatine to Ray Charles

    2. Re:Um... by hxftw · · Score: 1

      At least you didn't read it as roflcoptor. :(

      --
      Just because an idea is popular doesn't make it right.
  26. Naming theorems by gustgr · · Score: 1

    Just a few days ago there as brief thread on alt.tv.wonder-years about the math stuff that Danica McKellar did, and then someone came up with a link about the process of naming theorems, where the author cites the "Chayes-McKellar-Winn theorem".

    Here is the link to the article: http://www.maa.org/devlin/devlin_09_05.html

  27. Her published math paper by Ambitwistor · · Score: 1
    1. Re:Her published math paper by VorpalRodent · · Score: 1

      Probably one of the safest places for a "famous" person to place their personal email address - in a statistical physics paper. At the bottom of the first page. Although, it may very well be dead by now.

      --
      Take it to the limit, everybody to the limit, come on, everybody fhqwhgads.
  28. Awesome by the_tsi · · Score: 1

    Now that Winnie wrote a math textbook with doodles and other silliness, does that mean Madeline will write a french textbook dripping with seduction?

    1. Re:Awesome by hb253 · · Score: 1

      The only seduction I'm interested in would involve me, Danica, and Phoebe Cates. Hubba hubba

      --
      Self awareness - try it!
    2. Re:Awesome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm waiting for Kevin's psychology text.

  29. There's still a gap among the powerful by FieroEtnl · · Score: 1

    It's clear that many people don't think there's an educational gap between men and women anymore, or if there is, that it's the men that have to catch up. I'd posit that while more women succeed in school today than men, a woman's educational status and intelligence can be a hindrance in some arenas while the opposite isn't true for men. Education and money-earning potential are typically masculine traits and are highly associated with power.

    Think about the powerful men of the world. How many of them have a powerful woman beside them? How many have an educated woman for a spouse/significant other? How many powerful men simply have somebody to act as a piece of eye candy attached to their arm? I'd bet that the number of men with eye candy is much bigger than the number who have somebody who is an intellectual equal or is actually smarter than them.

    1. Re:There's still a gap among the powerful by porcupine8 · · Score: 1
      Actually, historically you're wrong. I don't know about today, but for a very long time that's exactly what highly intelligent women mostly did - they married intelligent, ambitious men and were the driving force behind their success. In the book Smart Girls, Gifted Women, the author revisits the women she went to a school for gifted children in the 50s/60s with, and found that many were now (in the 80s) in this position.

      Of course, now that so many women are getting powerful positions themselves, this is probably on the decline with trophy wives on somewhat of an increase. But then, look at our past few first ladies - Hilary Clinton is an obvious one, but Laura and Barbara Bush and Nancy Reagan aren't exactly trophy wives either.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    2. Re:There's still a gap among the powerful by moderatorrater · · Score: 1

      Hillary Clinton and Laura Bush's masters degree disagree. Or perhaps you think that they're a piece of eye candy on the arm of their husband when, in reality, they've chosen to do other things and lead their own, low profile, lives. It's been shown that a significant portion of the female population put careers and power lower on their list of priorities. Just because a woman doesn't earn money and doesn't have power doesn't mean that she's no successful, especially in her own opinion.

    3. Re:There's still a gap among the powerful by Gablar · · Score: 1

      Do you think that may have something to do with women choosing to have children and diverting their attention from their careers towards their family?

      --
      It's all about finding better ways
    4. Re:There's still a gap among the powerful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Powerful people tend to have powerful egos. Many of them don't want someone smarter than they are as a partner. Many people like that want someone who they can treat as a subordinate or an inferior. I really think it's really more a mater of ego and not gender. I'd wager powerful, successful women are every bit as likely as men to be egotistical jerks who just don't want an equal as a partner.

  30. Natalie Portman's neuroscience paper by FleaPlus · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Some of you might already know this, but slashdot-favorite Natalie Portman (birth name Natalie Hershlag) in 2002 was apparently co-author on a paper in the research journal NeuroImage, stemming from some research she did when she was an undergrad at Harvard. The paper is titled Frontal Lobe Activation during Object Permanence: Data from Near-Infrared Spectroscopy. Here's the abstract:

    The ability to create and hold a mental schema of an object is one of the milestones in cognitive development.
    Developmental scientists have named the behavioral manifestation of this competence object permanence.
    Convergent evidence indicates that frontal lobe maturation plays a critical role in the display of
    object permanence, but methodological and ethical constrains have made it difficult to collect neurophysiological
    evidence from awake, behaving infants. Near-infrared spectroscopy provides a noninvasive assessment
    of changes in oxy- and deoxyhemoglobin and total hemoglobin concentration within a prescribed
    region. The evidence described in this report reveals that the emergence of object permanence is related to
    an increase in hemoglobin concentration in frontal cortex. Also, a few choice Natalie Portman quotes:

    * "I loved school so much that most of my classmates considered me a dork."

    * "Smart women love smart men more than smart men love smart women."

    * "I'm going to college. I don't care if it ruins my career. I'd rather be smart than a movie star. "
    1. Re:Natalie Portman's neuroscience paper by Paulrothrock · · Score: 1

      Enough about the brain, what about the grits?

      --
      I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
  31. It even includes a horoscope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your slashdot horoscope - Astrology for nerds, stuff that doesn't matter

    The moon is in Saturn's fifth house (or rather, Saturn's fifth moon's picture is in your house) and Venus is never around. Capricorn is not in Virgo, and Alpha Centauri is four light years away, sucker!

    AR1E5
    You will get pissed off and throw your soldering iron across the room. You will not get laid tonight.

    T4URU5
    You will work overtime trying to clean up that code. You will not get laid tonight.

    G3MINI
    You will think you're getting laid tonight, but you won't.

    C4NCER
    You should stop smoking. Also, you will not get laid tonight.

    L3O
    You will sit around wondering WTF this "getting laid" thing is

    V1RGO
    Um.... yeah well...

    LI6RA
    You will either read a book or write one. I will not be about getting laid.

    SCORPI0
    You will bitch at a strange woman in a bar and wonder why you can't get laid. At least you'll get outside for a while!

    SAGATARIU5
    As are a homosexual you won't get laid. If you think you're hetero, you're wrong. Why do you think you haven't got laid?

    AQU4RIUS
    You will have fish for dinner. She won't go to bed with you.

    P1SCES
    You will masturbate to porn

  32. The Gender Gap is a Myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is no huge gender gap between males and females in education. Infact on average females do slightly better overall in schooling(they are more obedient). This gap is a myth created by marginal feminist groups that through lobbying, media campaigns, funding their own research and then hiding the results They have created this false public perception that females are shortchanged and victimized. There is a small male advantage in math and science achievement but boys trail more behind in all other areas.

    In the USA the true underpriveleged group which has a huge achievement gap in education is young African American males. If you want real facts read the paper Taking the Boy Crisis in Education Seriously... by Krista Kafer.

    Great job Winnie Cooper, you wrote a book to address a pretend gender gap that is a myth created by manipulated research findings like that of a debunked study entitled "How Schools Shortchange Girls". Mrs. Cooper propagating this myth only helps to make it harder to deal with the real problem of underachieving males that belong to minority groups, who really need attention.

    1. Re:The Gender Gap is a Myth by realsilly · · Score: 1

      So a smart cute girl who studied and worked her ass off wrote a book to help to encourage young girls to NOT idolize the dumb retarded Blonde Bimbo role models that keep appearing all over the media. She appeals to her gender, GIRLS, that it's ok to be smart.

      What's wrong with trying to encourage girls not to look up to Paris (Pathetic) Hilton, or Lindsey (Loser) Lohan, and Britany (Bimbo) Spears.

      If I were a young black successful artist, and felt the same as you do I'd do my own thing to encourage young black males to look at schooling and education in a different manner. Instead of bashing a good supportative and encouraging book. Promote it, may the trend will spread.

      --
      Life takes interesting turns, but the most interest is when you're off the beaten path.
    2. Re:The Gender Gap is a Myth by porcupine8 · · Score: 1
      While it is true that the gender gap has closed in many areas, this is a recent development (last decade) and is only true up to the bachelor's level, and only up to high school in math and science. Female enrollment in graduate programs, and female representation in academia and other high-level professions are still trailing.

      Which does not meant that African-American males are not in trouble as well. Strangely enough, more than one group can be trailing other groups at any given time.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    3. Re:The Gender Gap is a Myth by cecille · · Score: 1

      Really? Because at our university, our undergrad population in engineering overall is close to 30% female, but in computer engineering it's at 3%. These numbers are very close to the numbers seen at all other schools in the province. If you don't call that a gap then you might want to try and seek out a math book yourself.

      --
      ...no two people are not on fire.
    4. Re:The Gender Gap is a Myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This whole issue is just asinine. How come when women trail in anything or do not have parity it is a gap? Where is the concern for the male nurses gap? What about the huge gap favoring females as elementary school teachers?

      Certain jobs and fields just attract more certain people. Athletic people gravitate toward athletics. Socialable people are more likely to become things like party co-ordinators, tall people are more likely to be in the NBA, etc. There is no need to have parity in everything. This is only an idea special interest groups try to create. Why should so much media and government attention be given to women when they trail in something, just because of vocal feminist groups? Why not give equal resources and attention to short males who want a better shot at the NBA vs. tall males or some other equal non-issue? Sadly no United Short Males Union exists to make a huge popular victomology for this scenario.

      There are lots of real issues in the world to tackle instead of trying to reach an imaginary gender parity in all fields of occupation and education.

    5. Re:The Gender Gap is a Myth by cecille · · Score: 1

      Basically what you are saying though, is that you don't think it is worthwhile to attempt to fix the gap. All I was saying is that the gap exists.

      Also, there is a large amount of concern over the lack of male elementary school teachers, so the door swings both ways. In our school board anyway, a female elementary school teacher will have an incredibly difficult time finding a job unless she is able to teach French.

      --
      ...no two people are not on fire.
    6. Re:The Gender Gap is a Myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other areas there are gaps where females are more interested in certain majors and careers. Overall in school boys perform worse according the the resesarch done.

      The point is this is a non-issue and a waster of resources and time to try to find an imaginary gender equality.

      There are worse issues out there like the rampant degree snobbery in the corporate workforce. Why should so many millions hit walls in their careers because their degree is maybe only an Associate level degree? Why should people with Masters Degrees in the same company get paid more than those with Bachelors?

  33. Correct. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Such a stupid concept. I'm glad that I did not read the article.
    You cannot, I repeat--cannot--perform integrals without logic and rationality.
  34. mnemonics et al by SolusSD · · Score: 1

    mnemonics are fine if you are just trying to get through a math class. Also the use of "made up" words to describe symbols in math _can_ be fine... But thanks to a math teacher in high school a lower case omega is forever "worble" and a lower case zeta is "glarf" or "scribble". Unfortunatly these terms surface at the most embarrassing times now that i'm a computer science/electrical engineering major.

  35. Women scare what percentage of /.ers shitless? by spun · · Score: 2, Funny

    If 10% of all Slashdot accounts are current, and 25% of all posts relating to women in math and science are derogatory, what percentage of people that post to slashdot are going to get laid tonight?

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:Women scare what percentage of /.ers shitless? by Mercano · · Score: 3, Funny

      Zero, but thats the answer any night.

      --
      #include <signature.h>
    2. Re:Women scare what percentage of /.ers shitless? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I fucked my wife this morning.

    3. Re:Women scare what percentage of /.ers shitless? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      >If 10% of all Slashdot accounts are current, and 25% of all posts relating to women in math and science are derogatory, what percentage of people that post to slashdot are going to get laid tonight?

      Trick question: the answer is always zero.

    4. Re:Women scare what percentage of /.ers shitless? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I made 98% of those derogatory posts though

    5. Re:Women scare what percentage of /.ers shitless? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Almost always zero (that is, zero except on a set of measure zero).

    6. Re:Women scare what percentage of /.ers shitless? by Alsee · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'll skip the obvious and lame division by zero error joke.
      I hit a Pentium FDIV bug.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    7. Re:Women scare what percentage of /.ers shitless? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I fucked her last night!

    8. Re:Women scare what percentage of /.ers shitless? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm fucking her right now!

  36. Hot smart chicks by bagsc · · Score: 1

    ...typically don't need media attention to complete their lives. Nice to be reminded they're still out there.

    --
    http://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
  37. Being cool doesn't work either. by edunbar93 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Every time any adult tries to be cool in order to get kids to pay attention to a subject in school that they hate, they fail miserably. This is not (only) because adults simply aren't cool, but because the ploy is blazingly obvious. The funny thing about teenagers, is that they are the way they are in no small part because they've grown intellectually to the point where they can recognize lies and propaganda. This sort of thing only reinforces the idea that adults are clueless and generally to be ignored. See also: public service announcements by MC Hammer or Flava Flave.

    I'd have to admit though, that she does have one important ingredient in the textbook. That she demonstrates that you can be simultaneously pretty and intellectual (and includes other examples). If she could lose the cheesy teen-mag look, I'm sure we'd see some progress.

    --
    "No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
    1. Re:Being cool doesn't work either. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every time any adult tries to be cool in order to get kids to pay attention to a subject in school that they hate, they fail miserably.

      If you read TFA you will find that she ran drafts of the book past actual middle-school girls to see what those actual girls thought about it. And she incorporated their feedback.

      So it's actually possible that teen girls will like her book.

      And since you haven't actually read the book and you are just waving your hands around and speaking in generalities, you haven't convinced me her book will fail.

      If she could lose the cheesy teen-mag look, I'm sure we'd see some progress.

      And I'm sure that if the "...for Dummies" series lost that stupid "...for Dummies" tag, it might be successful. Oh wait, it is hugely successful.

      So let's wait and see how the book actually does before analyzing why it's a failure.

    2. Re:Being cool doesn't work either. by greg1104 · · Score: 2, Funny

      This sort of thing only reinforces the idea that adults are clueless and generally to be ignored. See also: public service announcements by MC Hammer or Flava Flave.

      That's why those fools should leave the educational lessons to Mr. T!

    3. Re:Being cool doesn't work either. by FlopEJoe · · Score: 1

      Every time any adult tries to be cool in order to get kids to pay attention to a subject in school that they hate, they fail miserably.

      Sentences with absolute statements like 'every time', 'always' or 'never' are always wrong.

    4. Re:Being cool doesn't work either. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...Ya think those products teens love to buy were all created by their peers? "Cool" is hard to get but far from impossible.

    5. Re:Being cool doesn't work either. by neumayr · · Score: 1

      True, many things, mainly books, get ignored by their teenage target audience for trying too hard to sound cool. Being cool seems to be highly successful in tv shows and (especially) commercials though, so why shouldn't it be possible in textbooks..?

      --
      Truth arises more readily from error than from confusion. -Francis Bacon
    6. Re:Being cool doesn't work either. by edunbar93 · · Score: 1

      The funny thing about commercials and TV is that teenagers decide what's cool. You can't make a product cool that isn't. Lots and lots and lots of companies try *really* hard to make that happen and fail miserably. Hell, there have been companies that made it, and then subsequently nosedived into the ground faster than you can say "Reebok".

      And you know what? Math isn't cool. Hell, school isn't cool. And there isn't anything you or I or Mega Marketing Corp can do about it.

      --
      "No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
    7. Re:Being cool doesn't work either. by edunbar93 · · Score: 1

      And I'm sure that if the "...for Dummies" series lost that stupid "...for Dummies" tag, it might be successful.

      Perhaps, but that was something that had never been tried before. Wheras there have been hundreds if not thousands of textbooks that have tried to be cool and completely failed in doing so. So there's a bit of a precedence there.

      --
      "No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
  38. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  39. More apropos to modern women: by monomania · · Score: 4, Funny

    "If your ex-husband, who was earning $45k per year, looses his job but now collects 30% of that in unemployment, and your alimony was calculated at 67% of his net salary while employed, what differential (minus child-support) must now be applied in order that he may loose his other testical?"

    1. Re:More apropos to modern women: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like I give a shit... And Net is your problem, you worthless lazy asshole, now give me my $30150.00.

    2. Re:More apropos to modern women: by Joebert · · Score: 1

      For bonus points, at what octave should your laugh about being 90% responsible for your ex-husband losing his job be ?

      --
      Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
    3. Re:More apropos to modern women: by Limburgher · · Score: 1

      That'd be funny if you'd spelled it right. Wait, maybe not. :)

      --

      You are not the customer.

    4. Re:More apropos to modern women: by cubicle_cowboy · · Score: 1

      Are you saying that one of his testicles is already on the loose?!

    5. Re:More apropos to modern women: by noidentity · · Score: 1

      "If your ex-husband, who was earning $45k per year, looses his job but now collects 30% of that in unemployment, and your alimony was calculated at 67% of his net salary while employed, what differential (minus child-support) must now be applied in order that he may loose his other testical?"

      Let me introduce you to a similar book, Spelling doesn't suck.

    6. Re:More apropos to modern women: by monomania · · Score: 1

      I lost the capacity to write English the first time she bit it. I lost the capacity to speak Latin the first time she licked it. I fucked her last week. I'm lost.

  40. Review of the book and an interview by hey+hey+hey · · Score: 3, Informative

    Tara Smith, a Professor of Epidemiology, and author of the science blog Aetiology (which I like) reviewed the book here , and has a short interview with Danica.

  41. Woah by TheDarkener · · Score: 1, Funny

    McKellar graduated Summa Cum Laude

    I wish she graduated *my* summa cum laude!

    --
    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
  42. OMG PONIES Linux (Gnu is not ugly) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey this is a step in the right direction. Next we can see the FSF trying to recruit more women to the cause and replace Richard Stallman with $random_hot_chick. We can have all the gnu utilities spit out butterflies and sunshine into the console. Top ten renaming suggestions

    man to woman
    cat to kitty
    tar to blush
    gzip to gbuckle
    make to bake
    gimp to cuddlepuffthingy

    1. Re:OMG PONIES Linux (Gnu is not ugly) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      M-x woman

  43. Quaint by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 1
    While studying there, she co-authored a proof and presented it at a conference.
    What a quaint way of putting it. One gets a sense that the journalist doesn't know much about what it's like to be mathematician.

    Anyone taking honours-level mathematics will author thousands of proofs before they graduate. In and of itself it's no big deal. I'm left wondering whether she proved a conjecture that had not yet been proved, or had found an alternate proof for an important theorem, or (most likely) had derived new theorems with accompanying proofs. What field the mathematics was done in might also have been a nice addition.
    1. Re:Quaint by Ambitwistor · · Score: 2, Informative

      Anyone taking honours-level mathematics will author thousands of proofs before they graduate.

      By "author" they mean ... "author". As in writing it up and getting it published, in a peer reviewed academic journal. See here, published in Journal of Physics A: Mathematical and General.

    2. Re:Quaint by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 1

      Thanks. I guess the journalist should have said "published" and removed any ambiguity.

    3. Re:Quaint by Loundry · · Score: 1

      What a quaint way of putting it. One gets a sense that the journalist doesn't know much about what it's like to be mathematician.

      What an insufferably snotty criticism.

      I agree that it would have been useful if there had been more information provided, but I think what irritates you is respect, rather, the lack of it, which you think you (and your profession) deserve but persistently fail to receive.

      --
      I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
    4. Re:Quaint by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 1

      What an insufferably snotty criticism of my insufferably snotty criticism!

      But the joke's on you. I do so little mathematics these days that I rarely think of myself as one. Usually it's "software developer" or "geophysical researcher" or "overpaid paper pusher" some such thing.

      But since when have mathematicians not been given enough respect? I've never seen that. Indeed, recent movies like "Good Will Hunting", "A Beautiful Mind", and "Proof" display an awe for talented mathematicians, even as they show them to be psychologically suspect.

    5. Re:Quaint by neumayr · · Score: 1

      "recent". ;)

      --
      Truth arises more readily from error than from confusion. -Francis Bacon
    6. Re:Quaint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From which school have you graduated with which major(s) and what honor?

      Being a nerd, I like nerds, but some of us are such fucking asinine assholes. I do hope you grow out of it, but I've seen specimen to the contrary. I just hope I grow out of it before I die.

    7. Re:Quaint by Loundry · · Score: 1

      What an insufferably snotty criticism of my insufferably snotty criticism!

      I agree with you that you were snotty and disagree with you that I matched you in tone. You came off like a pompous buffoon who was insulted that someone of his stature didn't receive the appropriate bootlicking.

      But the joke's on you. I do so little mathematics these days that I rarely think of myself as one. Usually it's "software developer" or "geophysical researcher" or "overpaid paper pusher" some such thing.

      What's funny about that? If you're trying to tell me that the "profession" of being a mathematician is overrated, then I agree with you.

      But since when have mathematicians not been given enough respect? I've never seen that.

      If that's true, then why did you act so pissed-off that someone didn't show mathematicians enough respect on Slashdot?

      --
      I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
  44. Baseball?? BASEBALL???? by sconeu · · Score: 1


    Baseball is the only truly divinely inspired game (Soccer comes close).

    On the Ninth Day, G-d created Baseball.

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    1. Re:Baseball?? BASEBALL???? by king-manic · · Score: 2, Funny

      Baseball is the only truly divinely inspired game (Soccer comes close).

      On the Ninth Day, G-d created Baseball. well. I guess thats proof against intelligent design.
      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    2. Re:Baseball?? BASEBALL???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Weird coincidence, but I actually tried watching a baseball game yesterday on TV. I watched about 40 minutes of it. I think about 20 of those minutes were commercials. 3 of those minutes were shots of the crowd while the announcers asked trivia questions. 10 of those minutes were shots of the pitcher standing perfectly motionless. And the remaining 7 minutes were of the pitcher and catcher throwing the ball to one another while every other player stood perfectly motionless.

      I have to say I enjoy playing softball (the kind where the average hitting percentage is above 95%, not the kind where people just stand around watching pitches go by), but for actual competitive baseball, "boring" is being incredibly kind.

    3. Re:Baseball?? BASEBALL???? by rleibman · · Score: 1

      Baseball is the slowest form of life on earth (ok, maybe Golf beats it, but only by a tiny bit).

    4. Re:Baseball?? BASEBALL???? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 2, Funny

      What do you mean on the Ninth Day? Haven't you ever read Genesis, the rest of the creation story takes place "In the Big Inning".....cue the groans.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  45. I think it's a great idea by HMKAI · · Score: 1

    I've seen many snide comments here, and it's disappointing.

    The world needs more educated people of both sex.

    I haven't seen the book, but if it helps reach young girls then it will pay a life time of dividends, and maybe even more.

    --
    http://www.freecitizen.com/
    1. Re:I think it's a great idea by Joebert · · Score: 1

      You're absolutely right, it's not easy reaching young girls these days with everything that's in the media, they don't go for candy anymore.

      --
      Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
  46. role models and obesity by steveha · · Score: 1

    And if just talking about looks and all, showing fit and lean, non-obese women is a good thing. We've got a horrible obesity problem out there, so, some skinnier role models are a good thing IMHO.

    I agree it's a good thing if young people have fit role models. However, young people are constantly bombarded these days with images of people so perfect as to represent a crushingly unattainable standard of perfection, and I don't think that's a good thing.

    A fit, attractive young girl might feel ugly in comparison with some Hollywood actresses who started with good genes, work out quite a bit, had plastic surgery to enhance certain bits, and are carefully photographed wearing makeup and amazing clothes. And then the image is edited with Photoshop to improve it even more! Even those actresses don't look that good all the time, but those are the only images the young girl sees, and she feels hopelessly ugly.

    A fit, attractive young boy might feel pathetic in comparison with some famous guys who started with good genes, work out quite a bit, and then spent several months preparing for one particular day. (You know those photos where every single muscle stands out through the skin? How bodybuilders look in competition? Yes, those guys spend months to look like that on one particular day. They dehydrate themselves for the last couple of days too, to get the so-called "dry look". More info here.) The famous guys don't look that ripped all the time, but those are the only images the young boy sees, and he feels hopelessly pathetic.

    I know I'm smart in general, but that doesn't mean I'm smart all the time about everything. When I was an overweight teen nerd, I just figured I had genetics predisposed towards overweight and the guys with muscles had better genes. I tried dieting and I ran cross-country, but I never for a moment considered that maybe I should lift weights too. It was a shock when, a couple of decades later, I finally figured out that working out a gym would work for me too. Posters with Arnold Schwarzenegger might have reinforced the "I'll never look that good" attitude, but posters of someone with whom I could identify might have convinced me to look into working out at a gym.

    As to causes of obesity: I think the worst one is that people don't really know what to do about it. There are so many different books, diet plans, etc. and it's hard to figure out which one works.

    But I think I know the secret and I'll give it to you. You need to change your diet, and eat healthy foods in the correct proportions; you need to do aerobic exercise, like running or bicycling or swimming; and you also need to do strength training. If you do all of that together, you will get healthier and lose excess fat. (And the strength training can be as little as three hours per week... actually the hardest part is managing the food, really.) My bible on this subject is the book Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle by Tom Venuto. (Disclaimer: I don't get anything for referring you to that link.)

    steveha

    --
    lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    1. Re:role models and obesity by plague3106 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      As to causes of obesity: I think the worst one is that people don't really know what to do about it. There are so many different books, diet plans, etc. and it's hard to figure out which one works.

      No, I'm convienced the cause of obesity are lazy people without any self control. The way to lose weight is to consume less calories. You also should exercise to increase calories burned. It really is that simple. But people are lazy and don't have the self control to tell themselves no.

      Every overweight person I've met has filled this criteria, and it was further re-enforced while my wife worked getting precertifications for gastric bypass surgery (which is never needed).

    2. Re:role models and obesity by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "No, I'm convienced the cause of obesity are lazy people without any self control. The way to lose weight is to consume less calories. You also should exercise to increase calories burned. It really is that simple. But people are lazy and don't have the self control to tell themselves no."

      I have to agree to some degree.

      After Katrina, I had to go live with some different friends of mine for awhile, as that I couldn't get back to my home, and my job was jumping all over the place. You really get an interesting insight to how people live when you actually live with them for awhile. It can be a real eye-opener since I guess you generally assume most people live like 'you do'.

      I lived with a family that has 2 young kids...about 10 and 11....a boy and girl.

      I was shocked to see how often while I lived there,that dinner was take out fast food (Sonic, or McD's or the like), which seemed to be at least 3 days a week avg. Cooked meals often were frozen meals, or had like frozen fries, etc to go with store prepped foods.

      When I grew up, both my parents worked, and we ate together as a family every night (till I was in my mid teens)...our meals were for the most part nutritious...fast food was a treat usually once a month MAYBE. Eating a pizza out was a real treat that didn't happen very often. I learned to make my own to have them more often.

      As I got older, I'd get home first from school..and Mom started me out helping in small ways...if she had stew in the crockpot going all day, I added in frozen chopped veggies...stuff like that. She taught me how to cook, and at times I'd help prepare more of some meals.

      Anyway, I think the problem is, parents somewhere in the generations since I grew up.....quit cooking, don't know how to cook from scratch any longer,and just either eat out too much fast food, and what they do eat at home, is prepared, processed food that also has too much fat, carbs and calories.

      And frankly, I don't know why people eat McD's or Wendy's so much...I can't stand them. They just are not made as well or taste as good as when I was youngers. I used to like a BK back in the day, before they had microwaves in the kitchen....and before the Whopper shrank down to almost the nothing it is today.

      But, back to what I said earlier...I'd always heard that people were eating too much fast food...I had no idea till I saw it being done on almost a daily basis up close....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    3. Re:role models and obesity by 2names · · Score: 1

      The parent post should not be modded as "Flamebait." The poster is right. Every fat person I have ever known fits the same criteria as lazy and lacking self control, including myself.

      I am a fat person. I am 6' 2" and weigh 295 pounds. I know that I should eat less and move around more, as I am not an idiot. However, when faced with the decision of getting off my fat ass to walk a few miles versus walking the 10 feet to the fridge to grab a piece of cake, I always go for the damned cake. I know it is killing me. I feel like shit most of the time and I don't sleep well because of the weight. The few times in the last 10 years (I used to be very fit) that I have managed to lose some weight, I felt considerably better physically, but did not have the self control to keep up with the maintenance. I simply gave up and started right back at eating too much and sitting on my big fat ass.

      To make matters even worse, most of the people I spend time with at work are fat as well, which makes it easier for me to justify my laziness and gluttony. All this being said, I still don't think I will ever change, and will probably die young because of my weight. But I don't blame McDonald's, I don't blame Society, and I don't blame magazines for my not having the self control to keep fit. I know the solution to being fat and I don't follow it. Don't feel sorry for fat people, feel sorry for their families that have to suffer for the fat person's selfish ways.

      --
      "I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
    4. Re:role models and obesity by steveha · · Score: 1

      No, I'm convienced the cause of obesity are lazy people without any self control. The way to lose weight is to consume less calories.

      It's not that simple.

      Your body is designed to keep you alive even when food is difficult to get; if you just cut calories, your body can react by trying to store as much as it can in the form of fat, and your metabolism can slow way down. If you had a slow metabolism to start with, it can seem impossible to lose weight.

      If you eat low-fat but high-carb foods, you may also find it very tough to lose weight. That was one of my problems.

      Someone with one or both of the above problems may despair of ever losing weight!

      The "Burn the Fat" book I linked in my post higher up tells how to eat a high-protein, moderate-carbs, healthy diet and exercise a lot to lose weight, and that works well.

      http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=226411&cid=183 43433

      Sure, some fat people are lazy slobs; others aren't so lazy but haven't found a diet that works for them. Don't be too quick to condemn every overweight person as lazy.

      steveha

      --
      lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    5. Re:role models and obesity by mackyrae · · Score: 1

      I proposed a solution to the "too fat to fit between cars in the parking lot" problem a few days ago. Last month I encountered a lady who couldn't get into the passenger side of her truck because I didn't park ON the right-side line for my parking spot...I actually centered the car. See, one of my uncles said "handicapped spots...they're extra wide," but fat people aren't handicapped. What I proposed is that there be extra wide spots in parking lots, but they should be all the way at the end, far from the doors. If the only place you can park and be sure you'll be able to open the door wide enough to get in and out requires burning a hundred calories to walk to and from the car, I don't see that as a bad thing. I mean, when that lady was staring at the space between vehicles in disbelief that she was expected to fit between 2 parked cars, I was thinking "jog around the block 20 times, then maybe you'll fit," so if we just make it rather necessary for obese people to walk far and thereby burn calories, we're really doing them a favor.

      I hate when people say "some people can't help it." Bull shit! Drop the Twinkie!

      Slightly changing the topic, where does the Freshman 15 come from? I didn't gain a single pound in my first year. I didn't lose any either, but my waist is 4" smaller. The fat converted to muscle (well, some of it...I think I'm down to that amount that requires situps to get rid of because at this point it's just "toning"). How do you gain weight in college? You're going from having classes that are 20 feet apart to classes that are about a quarter of a mile apart. Honestly, with the 20 minute walks from class to class, I don't see how anyone could gain weight.

      --
      look! it's a bird, it's a plane, it's....a girl? yes, a girl browsing Slashdot on Linux
    6. Re:role models and obesity by Teriblows · · Score: 1

      A fit, attractive young boy might feel pathetic in comparison with some famous guys who started with good genes, work out quite a bit, and then spent several months preparing for one particular day. (You know those photos where every single muscle stands out through the skin? How bodybuilders look in competition? Yes, those guys spend months to look like that on one particular day. They dehydrate themselves for the last couple of days too, to get the so-called "dry look". More info here [wikipedia.org].) The famous guys don't look that ripped all the time, but those are the only images the young boy sees, and he feels hopelessly pathetic. but they don't feel pathetic. do you know why? they aren't constantly being told by society and gender warriors that they are weak delicate flowers that are easily crushed by such things. they are told to buck up and be a man. thats what we need more of. many feminists think they are fighting the good fight by ranting about marketing and media but really they are just reinforcing victimhood and mentality of inferiority and weakness. that is the real problem. grow a spine, some thicker skin, live in the real world, be rational, don't over do things, have self control. don't blame others when you do not. you failed yourself and thats it.

    7. Re:role models and obesity by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      I hope you don't give up. I started changing my habits because I just felt lousy when I got up to 250 (I'm also 6'2"). Yes, it was hard at first, but if you can make it two or three weeks you can really make the changes you need to. I don't crave fries constantly, or chips or cakes. I can even have them once in a while, in moderation.

      It sounds like you've done it before; you need to change how you eat, and you don't totally cut out things you enjoy. You just enjoy them less oftem (which can make them more special).

      You do have the willpower in you... you just need to find a way to bring it out.

    8. Re:role models and obesity by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      Yes, there is more to it than that, but you still need selfcontrol and to not be lazy to burn the calories. You can have high carb foods, its just a matter of having only one serving. Also for me switching to whole wheat pasta helps as well, since the carbs are more comlex.

      I stand by my condemnation though; saying that someone hasn't found something to works is a cope out and they aren't trying hard enough. At the very least you know you can cut out chips and soda and other snacks, and that will help immensely.

    9. Re:role models and obesity by SkimTony · · Score: 1

      I find your proposal for fat-friendly parking spaces amusing, and I would like to see it implemented. I would also point out that such a parking situation would benefit not just those of us who happen to keep our personal dimensions smaller but also those who keep our automotive dimensions smaller. Of course, the people who can't fit between the two parked cars probably can't fit themselves into a Honda Civic, either.

      As for your question about the freshman fifteen, I can describe several factors that influence such a weight gain. I personally gained about forty pounds my freshman year of college, though I have several friends who lost weight.
      1.) All-you-can-eat dining halls: These make it really easy to overeat without thinking about it. If you're at home, and you cook one cup of rice and some chicken and veggies (or your mom cooks a similarly appropriate amount of food) and you are thinking about seconds but you see that you have about enough food left for lunch tomorrow, you put it in a tupperware in the fridge and forget about it. If you're in a dining hall, you just walk up and ask for another helping of deep-fried whatever.
      2.) Activity cycle: You described a situation where you have a lot more walking to do than you used to, and that seems to have helped you out in terms of fitness. However, a) having spread-out classes only helps if you actually go to them and b) for many of us who were on sports teams in high school (I ran cross-country and track), we don't keep up with it in college, to the detriment of our physical fitness. Even a reduction in activity makes a big difference - in high school, I ran 40 miles a week, and it really didn't matter if I had extra helpings. In college, I probably made it out for 4-5 miles twice a week in the nice weather. Combine that with item 1.), and you have a recipe for a lot of unused calories.
      3.) New Vices: College tends to be a time for experimentation, and a lot of people (myself not included, for this one anyway) decide that Beer is a good idea, which frequently leads to the proverbial Beer Gut.

      That said, I really don't understand how people make it to obesity, or even "really fat." No one wakes up fifty pounds heavier than they were when they went to sleep. My "freshman forty" put me at the most I've ever weighed, and at that weight, I felt like crud most of the time, and knowing that feeling is enough to steer me away from an extra trip to the buffet line and keep my hand out of the candy-drawer.

    10. Re:role models and obesity by mackyrae · · Score: 1

      I used to gain weight about 15lb/year (though it was in the years between ages 12 and 15 so I was mid-growth-spurt too) because my dad owned an ice cream store. The final amount came out to "I probably didn't get any taller during that last year" because I was 15lb more than I like to be (still not overweight though). I happened to become lactose intolerant right then too, though, so no more ice cream or milk (processed cheese has low levels of lactose though because lactase is produced when it's being processed, so I still ate a lot of fried cheese and pizza). I lost 15lb that year. That's a LOT of ice cream. I ate like 3 cones and had a shake daily.

      Being a vegetarian might have helped, but seriously, vegetarian was really not a change for me when it became official. It meant I went from 2 grudging bites of beef and a few bites of fish a week to none. Every bite of meat I've ever had was my mom saying "you can't get up from the dinner table until you eat x bites of [steak|chicken|lamb chops|ham|sausage|salmon]." But, as compared to most people's diets, that comes out a lot healthier (usually...not when I'm being a "junk food vegetarian"...you know, "m&m's don't have meat in them!" and then eat a whole bag). I don't have nasty nasty McDonalds cooked-for-30-seconds-then-tossed-into-a-vat-of-ol d-black-oil (my cousin worked there and refuses to ever eat there again) burgers. I think it's silly that so many people think being a vegetarian means eating nothing but salad (I don't like salad very much, especially with iceberg lettuce...spinach + mushrooms + cherry/grape tomatoes + raspberry vinaigrette is awesome though). A lot think it means just eating side-dishes like plain boiled corn or peas. That's ridiculous. Side dishes are done that way because attention is aimed at the main course, and since most people think it has to be meat, they only spend enough time to boil the veggies and never learn to dress them up properly. Vegetarian cookbooks always have really awesome stuff. Even my pork-company-owning step-dad rarely eats meat because we've pulled so many good vegetarian recipes out of them.

      Anyway, though, just doing "Vegetarian Tuesdays" or something (maybe 2 or 3 days a week), would probably help a LOT for overweight and obese people. Instead of fried chicken for dinner, why not have baked eggplant stuffed with mushroom-based stuffing? It tastes great, and it's likely to have less than 1/2 the calories and fat.

      --
      look! it's a bird, it's a plane, it's....a girl? yes, a girl browsing Slashdot on Linux
  47. Loses? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From your post I'd say we need a "spelling is hard" book.

  48. oh, great... by greywire · · Score: 4, Insightful

    lets create a dumbed down, silly math book with purposely misspelled words just so we can appeal to little girls.

    How insulting to girls.

    Lets make a similar math book for all the boys who aren't interested in math. It should feature GI Joe's using math to kill each other, aliens, and anything gross or violent. For the older boys lets throw in some soft core porn to get their eyes on the page (males are after all more visual, right?).

    Come on! This is rediculous. While I applaud her good intentions, I have to wonder why such a thing was not necessary for girls like her to be interested in math? I am all for making learning fun, and math books are about as dull and boring as it gets, but I see no reason why it has to be dumbed down and made gender specific.

    My 9 year old girl is great at math, without this.

    There are better ways to get kids to learn. Or, rather, to not turn them off to learning, since they start off wanting to learn and then we destroy that desire later on.

    --
    -- Senior Software Engineer, Attorney appearance services, locallawyerapp.com.
    1. Re:oh, great... by porcupine8 · · Score: 1

      Why do you assume that it's dumbed-down just because it includes some "fun" material? Have you actually read the book? Or are you just assuming that one can't write a math book that's fun to read without dumbing it down - or perhaps that one can't write a math book that would catch a preteen girl's attention without dumbing it down?

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    2. Re:oh, great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your 9 year old daughter is great at math. So was mine when she was 9, but now she's 14 and over the past year or two it has all suddenly gotten much more difficult for her. Not coincidentally, she is also more than socially acceptable (I was always the weird dork at the fringes) and I have to wonder if she really finds the concepts harder now (she's no less smart) or if she's just fitting in.

      Give us more role models (any gender) that help convince society that intelligence is not an impairment.

    3. Re:oh, great... by ArmyOfFun · · Score: 2, Funny

      It should feature GI Joe's using math to kill each other, aliens, and anything gross or violent. For the older boys lets throw in some soft core porn to get their eyes on the page (males are after all more visual, right?). Sir, I'd like to buy this book.
    4. Re:oh, great... by greywire · · Score: 1

      > Why do you assume that it's dumbed-down just because it includes some "fun" material?

      One word:

      refliprocal

      --
      -- Senior Software Engineer, Attorney appearance services, locallawyerapp.com.
    5. Re:oh, great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lets create a dumbed down, silly math book with purposely misspelled words just so we can appeal to little girls.

      How insulting to girls.


      Yes, the important thing is to be _polite_ to girls, not to try to teach them...

    6. Re:oh, great... by Craig+Maloney · · Score: 1

      Lets make a similar math book for all the boys who aren't interested in math. It should feature GI Joe's using math to kill each other, aliens, and anything gross or violent. For the older boys lets throw in some soft core porn to get their eyes on the page (males are after all more visual, right?).

      I believe you're referring to the Edutainment movement, where we were supposed to think that solving math problems to shoot down little alien ships with numbers on them was going to make a generation of geniuses.

    7. Re:oh, great... by greywire · · Score: 1
      --
      -- Senior Software Engineer, Attorney appearance services, locallawyerapp.com.
    8. Re:oh, great... by LittleGuy · · Score: 1

      I believe you're referring to the Edutainment movement, where we were supposed to think that solving math problems to shoot down little alien ships with numbers on them was going to make a generation of geniuses.

      If you're too young to remember "Schoolhouse Rock", then kindly get off my lawn.

      --
      Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
    9. Re:oh, great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lets make a similar math book for all the boys who aren't interested in math. It should feature GI Joe's using math to kill each other...

      Considering what I see on the internet we need a book featuring GI Joes to teach dumbasses like you how to use an apostrophe and the difference between the verbs "lose" and "loose".

      If you can't communicate in writing effectively you will be seen as (like Bob says) an illiterate moron.

      -mcgrew

    10. Re:oh, great... by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      It's called a mnemonic, most of them are seemingly retarded, but they are useful tools nonetheless. Or are you telling me sohcahtoa or roygbiv don't sound silly?

    11. Re:oh, great... by Craig+Maloney · · Score: 1

      If you're too young to remember "Schoolhouse Rock", then kindly get off my lawn.

      My first civics lesson came from a cartoon ("I'm just a bill"). What was your point? Are you old enough to remember Big Math Attack? (http://gury.atari8.info/details_games/38.htm)?

    12. Re:oh, great... by greywire · · Score: 1

      I always found the mnemonics to be just as hard to remember as the original thing. Unfortunately I have a bad memory all around when it comes to specific names. I remember concepts but forget what they are called...

      I can tell you that the whole concept of girling* up a math book to get girls interested in math just seems so insulting and rediculous. But then I abhor any kind of unnecessary gender based biases. I don't let my kids read those worthless Teen fluff magazines either, which this seems to be modeled after. It just sounds like a continuation of the problem in our society where girls just aren't thought of as smart, where boys are. This isn't a cure for the problem, its a way to manage the disease while looking like you are curing it. Its fruity cough syrup to cover up the symptoms of a much more serious problem.

      * "verbing weirds language" - Calvin and Hobbs.

      --
      -- Senior Software Engineer, Attorney appearance services, locallawyerapp.com.
    13. Re:oh, great... by krnpimpsta · · Score: 1

      Lets make a similar math book for all the boys who aren't interested in math. It should feature GI Joe's using math to kill each other, aliens, and anything gross or violent.
      This sounds like a great book. I would have loved it 15-20 years ago.

      For the older boys lets throw in some soft core porn to get their eyes on the page
      This sounds like a great book. I would love it right now.

      If you market this idea and make some about solid state device theory, I'll buy one. :)
      --

      New webcomic updated on Sundays: HERE

    14. Re:oh, great... by greywire · · Score: 1

      > This sounds like a great book. I would love it right now.

      > If you market this idea and make some about solid state device theory, I'll buy one. :)

      Seems you are not the only one. Maybe I have stumbled onto something here. Did you see the post I made about britney spears teaching about lasers?

      I'm a little rusty on my electronics, but I maybe I could do something on programming.. hmm...

      --
      -- Senior Software Engineer, Attorney appearance services, locallawyerapp.com.
    15. Re:oh, great... by FleaPlus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lets make a similar math book for all the boys who aren't interested in math. It should feature GI Joe's using math to kill each other, aliens, and anything gross or violent. For the older boys lets throw in some soft core porn to get their eyes on the page (males are after all more visual, right?).

      Hey, when I was in the book store the other day I came across Kaplan-brand Warcraft graphic novels with SAT vocab words and definitions inside.

    16. Re:oh, great... by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      I always found the mnemonics to be just as hard to remember as the original thing.

      Me too (I had to reverse-engineer sohcahtoa in order to post my original response), but for many, it's a vital component of their learning process. And my understanding is this book attempts to use multiple teaching methods, mnemonics being one, in order to make the book as useful and accessible as possible. That's nothing but a good thing, if you ask me.

      I can tell you that the whole concept of girling* up a math book to get girls interested in math just seems so insulting and rediculous.

      Too bad they didn't have a book to get you interested in spelling. ;)

      In all seriousness, though, girls and boys, thanks to socialization and genetics (you decide how much of each contributes) have different interests. Using those interests to encourage exploration of other areas, such as mathematics, is, IMHO, a perfectly valid method of teaching.

      More ridiculous, to me, is assuming that there are absolutely no differences between boys and girls (heck, individuals), despite obvious scientific evidence to the contrary, and attempting to teach everyone using the exact same methods. That's just PC idealism taken too far.

      It just sounds like a continuation of the problem in our society where girls just aren't thought of as smart, where boys are.

      Yeah, because there's nothing out there that appeals to boys' baser instincts (can we say WWE? NASCAR? Sports in general?).

      Honestly, I think you're just being far too sensitive, here. Would you object if a math book was created that made use of traditional "boy" interests?

    17. Re:oh, great... by porcupine8 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I read teen fluff magazines in junior high, and celebrity gossip is still a guilty pleasure of mine. But somehow I managed to go to MIT and now have a master's and am working on PhD. Oh! And not only did I play with Barbies, I switched from playing to collecting when I was about 12 and currently own about a hundred of them.

      Shielding your kids from "girliness" doesn't do them any favors. Teach them that they can be girly AND smart, that they don't have to choose between them, and you'll never run the risk that in a moment of weakness they'll choose girly over smart.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    18. Re:oh, great... by swein515 · · Score: 1

      I take it you purposely misspelled "ridiculous" to make a point then?

    19. Re:oh, great... by greywire · · Score: 1

      Forgive my spelling. Again a case of I know what the word means conceptually, but I forget the precise name of it.

      > Yeah, because there's nothing out there that appeals to boys' baser instincts (can we say WWE? NASCAR? Sports in general?).

      Obviously girls and boys have different interests..

      >Honestly, I think you're just being far too sensitive, here. Would you object if a math book was created that made use of traditional "boy" interests?

      I would, which is why I illustrated in my first posting an example of how silly that may be.

      But after all this, I am giving serious thought to capitalizing on this concept with learning materials designed to appeal to boys in the same way on subjects they may otherwise be less than interested in (I only say boys since I would not, as a boy, know how to do the same for girls).

      --
      -- Senior Software Engineer, Attorney appearance services, locallawyerapp.com.
    20. Re:oh, great... by Archades54 · · Score: 1

      Could also be she's spending more time in classes socializing or doing other activities vs. learning. Fall too far behind and it can be quite a problem to keep up.

      --
      If your neighbours roof is flying past your window, you know it's cyclone season.
    21. Re:oh, great... by greywire · · Score: 1

      >Shielding your kids from "girliness" doesn't do them any favors. Teach them that they can be girly AND smart, that they don't have to choose between them, and you'll never run the risk that in a moment of weakness they'll choose girly over smart.

      Well let me add that I don't try to shield them from all things girly, just certain things. I admit when I was boy I played with war toys but I am generally anti war today, etc, so I understand the concept of balancing things and not censoring everything. I allow barbie but don't allow for example Bratz (not for girly reasons, but for the general attitude they promote). I encourage artistic endeavors and if that means girly creations, no problem.

      With a boy on the way, I will do the same thing. Squirt guns and water balloon bombs? OK with me, but running around with a realistic looking machine gun.. not ok. etc.

      I guess I am lucky to have a genius girl who learns well without needing things sugar coated. Going to a multi-age, go at your own pace, parent participation school room helps though, much more than I think any girlified book would ever... in fact I am pretty sure at 9 years old she would look at that math book and think it was ridiculous (I got that spelled right, woohoo!) as well..

      --
      -- Senior Software Engineer, Attorney appearance services, locallawyerapp.com.
    22. Re:oh, great... by ispeters · · Score: 1

      My 9 year old girl is great at math, without this.

      While I feel some sympathy for your general point, this anecdote about your daughter is completely irrelevant. If you RTFA, you'll see that it's not until middle school that girls start to express that "math is hard". The problem is a social one. Girls aren't supposed to be good at math. Girls that are good at math are nerdy and geeky, rather that popular or sexy. I'm a guy, so I won't pretend to understand the social constructs in a middle-school girls' clique, but I think it's a safe bet that "nerdy" is mutually exclusive with "popular" and that most people would rather be popular than nerdy (I say most people rather than most girls because I'm sure this applies to guys as well).

      This math book might not be taking the right approach. Perhaps, years from now, when more studies have been conducted, we'll have a better understanding of why girls suddenly stop participating in math and science, and maybe then we'll have some evidence that this book is going in completely the wrong direction. However, with the knowledge that's currently available, it seems that girls start focusing on being popular and the current set of math books cast math in a decidedly non-popular light. She's at least trying to correct that. She's trying to fix the problem from within the system. The results will be interesting, whether it's a success or a failure.

      Ian

    23. Re:oh, great... by porcupine8 · · Score: 1
      Going to a multi-age, go at your own pace, parent participation school room helps

      Oh dear god, do you have any idea how lucky you and your daughter are? My master's is in gifted ed, I can tell you that this type of classroom is incredibly rare and has a lot of political resistance holding it back from ever becoming more popular. I'm assuming she goes to a Montessori school, because finding it outside of those is even more rare. Either way, yes, it probably does help a lot.

      But for the millions of kids who will never be in such a classroom, there are always girlified math books to try and fill in some of the gaps. It just bugs me that so many people on here seem to look down on the girliness; saying "femininity bad, masculinity good" is no better than "woman bad, man good."

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    24. Re:oh, great... by greywire · · Score: 1

      > While I feel some sympathy for your general point, this anecdote about your daughter is completely irrelevant.

      Yeah, you're right.

      It is a social problem, not a learning problem. I don't think books like this will make it anymore socially acceptable to be "nerdy". And I don't think it will make it easier to learn. The differences in learning from male to female (and I am sure there are in fact differences) I think are going to be much more subtle than this book. But its definitely going to get people thinking about it. Hell, I am thinking about it now, and I'm seriously considering doing something similar (though I would hope a little less Teen Magazine). I would like to get my kids into doing web design/programming, and there seems to be still a lack of girls in this field.

      --
      -- Senior Software Engineer, Attorney appearance services, locallawyerapp.com.
    25. Re:oh, great... by greywire · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > Oh dear god, do you have any idea how lucky you and your daughter are?

      It's actually a completely independent program called "KCD", it consists of two rooms in an otherwise normal elementary school here in fullerton, CA (orangethorpe elementary). And yes we have had to fight for this, battling with the school district to get district transfers, and attending meetings to keep getting funding for the program. It is a quite successful program. I take one day of work off each week to attend the classroom and help the kids.

      I have nothing against the differences in males and females, and I love that we are different in some ways. I just hate seeing smart girls never reach their potential (and to be fair, smart boys) and realize they can be smart and beautiful (or for boys, smart and strong?).

      --
      -- Senior Software Engineer, Attorney appearance services, locallawyerapp.com.
    26. Re:oh, great... by Der+Einzige · · Score: 2, Funny

      Lets make a similar math book for all the boys who aren't interested in math. It should feature GI Joe's using math to kill each other, aliens, and anything gross or violent. For the older boys lets throw in some soft core porn to get their eyes on the page (males are after all more visual, right?). You're looking for books by Robert Heinlein, sir. You'll find them in the science fiction section of our store under "H."
    27. Re:oh, great... by Coucho · · Score: 0

      For the older boys lets throw in some soft core porn to get their eyes on the page So when is the publish date?
      --
      *pSig = NULL;
    28. Re:oh, great... by rpillala · · Score: 1

      purposely misspelled words

      Come on! This is rediculous.
      Come on now. Besides, mnemonic devices like refliprocal are used all the time in classrooms. I've never seen that one though.

      While I applaud her good intentions, I have to wonder why such a thing was not necessary for girls like her to be interested in math? I am all for making learning fun, and math books are about as dull and boring as it gets, but I see no reason why it has to be dumbed down and made gender specific.

      My 9 year old girl is great at math, without this.

      Math books aren't just boring and dull, they're mostly useless to students except as problem banks. I've taught mathematics grades 6-12. In those 10 years of teaching, maybe 2 books were written in a way for students to understand if they didn't already. Math books seem to be written for people who already understand (me) to help others who are independently inclined to want to know. This, in my experience, is not the typical student.

      Lets make a similar math book for all the boys who aren't interested in math. It should feature GI Joe's using math to kill each other, aliens, and anything gross or violent. For the older boys lets throw in some soft core porn to get their eyes on the page (males are after all more visual, right?).
      I think you're missing the point. This isn't about getting girls to like math purely as a subject. Girls, starting around middle school, experience negative perception of their math efficacy, or sometimes this is called math self-concept (link). It's not like that in elementary school. Certainly some of this has to do with their experience in schools (most elementary ed majors I knew didn't like math, and it has to come out when you're teaching it.) The rest of it comes from somewhere else i.e. parents, peers, media, whatever else. By the time I see them in high school where I am now, a lot of them have given up on their ability to do math. This translates very easily into "I hate math." Ask adults they'll tell you the same thing.
      --
      When the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
    29. Re:oh, great... by Teriblows · · Score: 1

      hah we need some hot teachers for that version. you know, the ones that go a little too far... but lets keep it reasonable:) do a complete chapter of math and hot teacher takes off her bra. ace the test and hot teacher lets you cop a feel:) instant math genius!!

    30. Re:oh, great... by that+IT+girl · · Score: 1

      ...Sort of. But "feminine" and "ditzy" are not synonymous. That book seems more suited for the ditzes.

      --
      10 FILL MUG WITH COFFEE
      20 DRINK COFFEE
      30 GOTO 10
    31. Re:oh, great... by porcupine8 · · Score: 1
      Have you read the book, or are you basing that on the fact that it contains horoscopes and the word "refliprocal"?

      Of course, if it IS aimed at the ditzes, and is at all successful at getting them to not hate math, isn't that an even bigger triumph? I mean, I might have read this when I was in junior high, but I already loved math. I might have learned some algebra concepts a year or so early, but that's about it. Appealing to a girl who's already started dumbing herself down and managing to turn it around even a tiny bit would be a major accomplishment.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
  49. hm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From webster:
    'reciprocate'
    2 : to move forward and backward alternately

    'reciprocal'
    1 a: inversely related : opposite

    Is it so hard to understand that a reciprocal is opposite? 1/n becomes n/1 or if it were a real mathbook 1/theta thus theta/1

    1. Re:hm by dealmaster00 · · Score: 0

      Oh, so now real math books use theta instead of n? :rolleyes;

    2. Re:hm by porcupine8 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Yeeees, because the average 13-year-old uses the word "reciprocate" regularly in their daily vocabulary.

      For pete's sake, people, since when have mnemonics become the work of the dumbing-down devil? No, you can't learn all of math that way, but when it comes to remember the definition of one term it's fine. I still use SOHCAHTOA, I must be an idiot.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    3. Re:hm by pimpimpim · · Score: 1
      In Holland it is soscastoa, and I still use it for my current work as scientific staff member. Things like this stay with you forever, so there is no better way. Also, I noticed when helping people after school that had troubles with math, that anyhting involving fractions is very difficult for those who just aren't predestined geeks. Still, even those need to get through math, and all the more help in the beginning will bring them further in math as they would have thought themselves. Actually this is true for boys and girls.

      Real life example: I taught one girl who had very bad grades for math and physics. I helped her for a while, and noticed that at the start she had no clue what to do at all, but, after a short explanation she picked it up amazingly fast. It was really just the first few principles that were hard for her to understand, and normally she would just give it up there. I am no miracle math teacher, but explained with a lot of patience, and then she could do it without an effort at all. Dangerous consequence of that again was that she immediately getting lazy about it :) She had no problems getting through the exams in any case. What I conclude from this is that maybe teachers are expecting only the boys to pick it up, and keep their explanation too much technical. And books as these, as silly as they may seem (the cover looks horrid to me), might just be the little push in the back that is needed.

      --
      molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
    4. Re:hm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I still use SOHCAHTOA, I must be an idiot. I still use SOHCAHTOA and I have my undergrad in math and will be entering grad school in stats this fall. I couldn't agree with you more.... Whatever works.
  50. 'Math Doesn't Suck' by jointm1k · · Score: 1

    And the edition for advanced classes is called: 'Math Swallows'.

    --
    You know it makes sense, a little reminder from jointm1k.
    1. Re:'Math Doesn't Suck' by dealmaster00 · · Score: 0

      I think you meant "blows."

    2. Re:'Math Doesn't Suck' by middlemen · · Score: 1

      'Math Doesn't Suck'
      ... but Danica does ;)

      'Math Swallows'
      ... but Danica doesn't :-O

  51. And still more wildcards by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

    On the Ninth Day, G-d created Baseball.

    OK, we're beyond off-topic now, but here goes.

    What's the point of writing "G-d" for "God"? You clearly mean "God", and at some point that becomes such a common substitution that it's effectively equal to writing "God" in the first place. If it's a sin in your religion, to engrave his name or something like that, don't you think he'd be just as pissed that you invented an alternate spelling as a loophole?

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    1. Re:And still more wildcards by kalaf · · Score: 2, Funny

      Alright, no one is to flame anyone until I blow this whistle. Even... and I want to make this absolutely clear... even if they do type "God"

  52. WELL PLAYED GENTLEMEN by atarione · · Score: 1, Troll

    the replies in this mess should go far to ensuring this place remains a "SAUSAGE FEST" jeezous...amazing how people might have reached the conclusion that people on ./ don't evar evar get laid.

    --
    actually I am happy to see you, however that is in fact a banana in my pocket.
    1. Re:WELL PLAYED GENTLEMEN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashdot, composed mostly of nerds and geeks, is also known for its somewhat strange sense of humor. I suggest you lighten up a bit.

  53. What achievement gap? by NEOtaku17 · · Score: 1

    When you hold constant things like degrees earned, time in the workforce, IQ, wealth of the parents, and so on woman earn almost the same or more than men. The "gap" is mostly determined by life choices like their major in college and having children and being out of the work force. Out of people with my degree it is well known that woman make more money with the same amount of experience, and it is similar in other jobs as well.

    1. Re:What achievement gap? by NumaNuma · · Score: 1

      Sounds to me like you're describing the "achievement gap" right there. While you may be right that there isn't very much of a pay gap given equal achievement, that fact itself supports the existence of an achievement gap. After all, if women overall have lower pay, yet get equal or greater pay given equal achievement, then logically there isn't equal achievement. Now, I don't know that I believe the axiom that given equal education/choices women aren't at a disadvantage, but at the very least according to your beliefs there exists an experience/achievement gap. That said, as a highly educated woman in a field that is traditionally male-centric, I still occasionally encounter certain assumptions about my ability (or inability) that only seem to occur in situation where the other party is aware of my gender, as opposed to online.

    2. Re:What achievement gap? by asbooki · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But why do they make those life choices? When you walk into a room and you're the only girl and the rest are hormonal boys making stupid jokes, are you going to go back? I did, but that's because I've been a geek all my life but I have plenty of friends that did not. And if you notice, this book is targeting middle school girls. That the time where girls choose, in a real sense, whether to care about math. So, she wrote the book in a style for middle school girls and if they make it out of puberty with a little more math knowledge, they might make different choices. A great example of a more nuanced look at this (for older girls in computer science) is MIT's report on women enrolled in the EECS department from over 10 years ago: http://www.eecs.mit.edu/AY94-95/announcements/13.h tml The sad part is that a lot of the material in here is still true.

    3. Re:What achievement gap? by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 1

      But why do they make those life choices?

      Probably for the same reasons that men make choices leading to them being the ones who suffer 99% of all work related fatalities.
      --
      The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
    4. Re:What achievement gap? by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 1

      When you walk into a room and you're the only girl and the rest are hormonal boys making stupid jokes,

      Oh, and you win the prize for most sexist comment I've yet read today... you go girl!
      --
      The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
    5. Re:What achievement gap? by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 1

      Sounds to me like you're describing the "achievement gap" right there.

      It's only a gap if you narrowly examine the data to exclude every other kind of achievement in life. Women who make the same choices as men get the same rewards as men. Women who make different choices than men get different rewards than men. Exactly what about that situation do you want to change?

      Here's an achievement gap though: women achieve a lifespan approximately 10% greater than that of me. Now that's a gap!

      I don't know that I believe the axiom that given equal education/choices women aren't at a disadvantage

      Of course they would be at a disadvantage in that case, considering that it would be a reduction from the current situation where women have more choice than men.

      --
      The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
    6. Re:What achievement gap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously, the reason these girls are not choosing to become mathematicians is the fault of these classrooms full of stupid, hormonal boys (and aren't most, if not all, boys stupid creatures controlled by their hormones?). Must be nice to think that all your problems can be blamed on the opposite sex.

  54. I am Winnie Cooper! by tverbeek · · Score: 1

    I'm the kind of person that responds strongly to a challenge. So somebody told me that if I wasn't a coffee drinker yet, by the end of college I'd have to be, because a math major is so tough I would have to stay up very late. I was going to need coffee to do that. Well, merely because they said that, I never drank coffee in college, never got addicted to it, never needed it. That's the stubborn side of my personality -- which I try to use for good.
    This is pretty much what happened with me. In my case, it was my father who told me that I'd learn to like coffee in college. I'd already tried a sip of it once, and hadn't liked it... plus I had to prove to Dad that he was wrong. A quarter century later, I still haven't had another sip of it. I've had opportunities to prove Dad wrong about other things in the meantime, but this was my first victory, so I'm holding onto it. :)
    --
    http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    1. Re:I am Winnie Cooper! by tubeguy · · Score: 1

      Sounds to me like you're just missing out on coffee.

    2. Re:I am Winnie Cooper! by tverbeek · · Score: 1

      I'm "missing out" on something I never liked the taste of (or the smell, in case you ask). Would you say that all the men who've never slept with another guy are just "missing out" on it?

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
  55. STOP SPOUTING MYTHS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    People stop spouting off myths. The myth you are supporting has no basis in facts. The shady small interest feminine group the American Association of University Women created this false perception of female victimization in schooling to give more resources and attention to girls in schooling at the expense of other groups.

    First off no one but feminist interest groups really stress this gap thing and others who follow their well created myths. What about the important gap of women vs. men in Major League Basebell where no women is represented? Women and men do not have to compete in everything. You do not hear much hype about a male gender gap in nursing, teaching elementary school, etc. because there are no male groups to whine and moan about non-issues but there are feminists and fake women studies courses in universities.

    http://www.uaf.edu/northern/schools/myth.html

    "But the idea that the "schools shortchange girls" is wrong and dangerously wrong. It is girls who get higher grades in school, who do better than boys on standardized tests of reading and writing, and who get higher class rank and more school honors. It is young women who enter and graduate from college far more frequently than young men. It is women who have made dramatic progress in obtaining professional, business, and doctoral degrees. The great gender gap of the 1960s in advanced degrees has almost closed, especially in the professional fields to which ambitious women aspire. In the view of elementary and high school students, the young people who sit in the classroom year after year and observe what is going on, both boys and girls agree: Schools favor girls. Teacher think girls are smarter, like being around them more, and hold higher expectations for them." ...

    "The American Association of University Women (AAUW) put itself on the political map through its highly publicized 1992 report: How Schools Shortchange Girls. The media trumpeted the message around the world: In the schools, as in so many other areas of life, females are victims. Girls are silenced in the classroom, suffer a decline in self-esteem at adolescence, and fall far behind boys in such crucial subjects as science and mathematics. As the AAUW Executive Summary declares:" ... ... "I telephoned David Sadker to ask him directly about the serious charge that his famous study had disappeared. He could not send me a copy of the report." ...

    "Neither girls nor boys nor the nation itself are served by politicized research and "noble lies." Major assertions in the AAUW report are based on research by David and Myra Sadker that has mysteriously disappeared. Evidence which contradicts their thesis that the schools shortchange girls is buried in supplemental tables obtainable only at great difficulty and expense. Such shady practices undermine public confidence in social science research. This damage done by the AAUW report will have repercussions that last far beyond the immediate issue of whether either girls or boys are shortchanged in the school." ...

    1. Re:STOP SPOUTING MYTHS! by porcupine8 · · Score: 1

      If you were anything more than a fringe lunatic out to get one particular group, you'd realize that there actually is quite a large segment of the educational research community who has picked up on the ways in which males are falling behind females in various areas and that this has become one of the new trendy research areas. But have fun with your conspiracy theory, there, bucko. I'm sure it'll get you laid.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
  56. If only by NEOtaku17 · · Score: 1

    If college was all it took to make you smart we would be a hell of a lot better off. That's for sure.

  57. G-d by Benanov · · Score: 1

    From what I understand, it's a Jewish thing--only my Jewish friends do it.

    From what I last heard, one is not supposed to write out the name of God where it can be erased, because one is not supposed to erase it. The famous workaround is that everyone writes G-d to mean "God" and don't have to worry about erasing the name.

    I have no clue if it's law or superstition or custom or whatnot.

    1. Re:G-d by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Darn it, now I can't change my window or I'll be erasing it.

    2. Re:G-d by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      That's pretty much correct. If I remember correctly, it's because anything that has G-d's name on it is considered holy writing, and the only proper way to dispose of holy writings (which includes prayer books and the like) is by burying them. One of the other methods used to work around the issue on hand-written things is to squeeze an extra 'o' into the middle of the word, turning it into the word "Good".

  58. Who is the Target Audience? by stevemm81 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Who is the target audience for this book? Kids who are already into math will be embarrassed/disgusted with the teen mag layout, and kids who aren't won't read a math book even if their parents buy it for them and say "look, this actress you may have seen on Nick at Nite wrote a math book!" I think just about anyone would wince at the "breaking a nail" cliche in the title, although I suspect Ms. McKellar's not to blame.

    Many of these kinds of efforts look like they were produced by someone who is more concerned with being on record with supporting women going into science and math than actually having a real effect. That's why we end up with textbooks crammed with mini-biographies of Sophie Germain and Ada Lovelace that nobody will actually read and that anyone with enough brainpower to do basic algebra will recognize as tacit admissions that a woman mathematician is an odd duck indeed.

    McKellar looks like her heart is in the right place - she's presumably wealthy and is a professional actress, and yet she still devoted serious time and energy to studying math. Presumably she wants others to share her enthusiasm for an interesting and potentially lucrative field of endeavor. But I very much doubt that she was "turned on" to math by a book like this. I imagine that her supportive family and the confidence boost that came from being a TV star helped overcome the anti-math stigma.

    Of course, as much as the stereotypical mathematician is not feminine, he's not particularly masculine either, not an effeminate man precisely, probably more of a modern-day eunuch. Certainly no young men go into mathematics to impress their peers, so I think a more important question would be why young women are more influenced by "peer pressure" than young men.

    Is it low self-esteem? Women think they can't get ahead except by being "cheerleader" types? Or high self-esteem? Women think they *can* become cheerleader types if they wear uncomfortable enough clothing and enough makeup, while nerdy guys figure they couldn't make the football team in a million years?

    1. Re:Who is the Target Audience? by Nyeerrmm · · Score: 1

      I think there is a target audience. While I have nothing more than anecdotal evidence, I think the real target would be those girls, who are already interested in math and science, transitioning from elementary to middle school where the social pressures to not be 'nerdy' start becoming important.

      The way I see it, my younger sister who is 12, just beginning middle school, is the target audience. She likes math, she's good at math. Her career goal right now is to be an Aerospace Engineer (partially from seeing rockets I built in school, partially from October Sky). Not that I think she'll stick with that, but the interest is there, and she loves her little teen people or whatever magazines too. So the point is to provide some learning yes, but also to talk about some role models and ideas for the future, in a way that won't be too nerdy, in hopes to convince them that its possible to be good at math and cool.

    2. Re:Who is the Target Audience? by Toon+Moene · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > Who is the target audience for this book?

      How about: Me ?

      I'm a remedial teacher of math and physics (occasionally chemistry, although strictly speaking I'm not qualified for that).

      I routinely have to try to get underperforming girls "over the hill" (into the next year of high school).

      Although I'm quite sure this book won't give me an array of recipes, just being able to get a glimpse of what girls of that age think is important *and how to relate that to math* will be extremely useful.

      I'm off to the [fill-in online bookstore of choice] to buy this book !

  59. Insulting by null.account · · Score: 1

    ...and condescending.

    How is it not ?

    The truly talented are the ones who need to work hard, who need to be supported and encouraged, not the profoundly inept. It's enough to pander to the unremarkable without stooping to such prattling idiocy as this.

    "Refliprocals"... Oh good god. Please.

  60. Math includes horoscopes? by kuriharu · · Score: 1

    This book includes horoscopes. Am I missing something? Aren't horoscopes un-scientific? Isn't that teaching girls to be less educated?

    I'm sure the book sounded good on paper.

    1. Re:Math includes horoscopes? by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      Yes, you are missing something. A whole lot of the basics of math came to us from the Babylonians, who not only needed math to get their buildings up, but also used it extensively to do astrological calculations.

      That is part of the beauty of math, it is only interested in the correctness of the calculations. It makes no value judgment as to the veracity of the subject matter. This is also the basis of 'lies, damned lies, and statistics'.

      Mart
      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    2. Re:Math includes horoscopes? by kuriharu · · Score: 1

      I must still be missing something. I thought astrology was using the movements of the stars to predict events on Earth, which is nothing more than superstition. I thought Astronomy was mapping the movements of heavenly bodies and leaving it at that. I guess I thought 'astronomy' and 'astrology' were different. Silly me.

    3. Re:Math includes horoscopes? by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      Yes, you are indeed silly. Ancient astrology was very much concerned with the mapping of heavenly bodies, and correct predictions of their cycles.

      Go study up some history and/or archaeology texts.

      Mart
      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    4. Re:Math includes horoscopes? by kuriharu · · Score: 1

      Damn, you got all that off of horoscopes? You guys really read a lot into it. I guess having a life is a penalty. I'll go back and read up on that if you actually walk away from your computer for a while. Just an hour or so guys, really. There's a great big world out there.

    5. Re:Math includes horoscopes? by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      No, I don't get that off of horoscopes. I get that out of a decent knowledge of the ancient world. And ancient astrology is by no means the same as horoscopes in the paper. And note that I nowhere made any statements as to the validity of either. I kept myself very strictly to the methods used by the ancients, which was solid maths. The conclusions they drew from their calculations are irrelevant. As is your sneering arrogance.

      But it's your call if you want to parade your wilful ignorance in front of the world. I don't mind, in so far as that I am sad that yet another being proves himself to be stupid.

      Mart
      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
  61. Re:Am I the only one peeved... AT WHAT? by WidescreenFreak · · Score: 1

    And if so, then SO WHAT?! The point is to make math fun and interesting. If adding a horoscope does that, then there is no reason not to add one. Similarly, if a Feng Shui example can be properly made to provide a way to make someone understand some piece of geography, then why the hell should it not be added?

    Stop looking at the delivery mechanism and look at the results. You sound like the kind who would get pissed off if his pizza was delivered by horse-and-buggy instead of by car even if the pizza was still delivered on time.

    --
    The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
  62. wrong Winnie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Am I seriously the only person who saw the title and wondered why a Bear of Very Little Brain would be writing a textbook?

    1. Re:wrong Winnie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. I first thought the same thing.

      Having read Winnie's work the Dao of Pooh.

      Now i did not watch her program much, and never watched blossom,

      however that Who's the Boss chick, alissa milano ?sp? she's gotten me all into witchcraft, i'm an apprentice white wizard thanks to her.

  63. Ah Hell Nah! by s7726 · · Score: 0

    If any of my little cousins end up saying the word refliprocal I swear I'll hunt this woman down and punch her in the face!

  64. Re:Barbie disagrees (OT) by _anomaly_ · · Score: 0

    Hillarious...
    I'd give you all my mod points, if I had any and could do so.

    Speaking of which, where did I put my mod points...

    --
    "I have no special gift, I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
  65. Good idea by u8i9o0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ignoring the usual trolls here, McKellar did adopt a tabloid-style format that much of the /. crowd would usually deride. Therefore, I guess I shouldn't be surprised by much of the relevant discussion.

    But, from what I understand, that's the best approach since the target audience has been fed this format for a number of decades. Actually, I anticipate that mothers will buy it (for their kids) and even flip through it themselves given the probably that they will appreciate the similarity.

    And quit whining about the appearance of horoscopes. If horoscopes appear in teen magazine, and you're trying to adhere to the teen magazine format, then something that resembles a horoscope had better be included. In fact, if it was done well, the audience may remember the math the next time they see a similar horoscope (analogy: count the number of Simpson's parodies do you notice on a daily basis).

    I applaud the goal and concept but the hardest (and most crucial) part is having the content itself read like a teen magazine. I have no idea how to make that happen, but I'm not the one attempting this. Hopefully McKellar has that talent. Good luck.

    --
    This is not my sig
  66. Get real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    You are the fringe lunatic. I gave links to two research papers(NOT YOU) that point to this kind of research of men actually falling behind in general in education, you are just talking making things up without consulting the actual research. I took the time to read on the papers and know that this gender gap no longer really exists if anything in general boys are behind girls and need more attention, this is a myth created by women groups like AAUW and their popularized 1992 report which I mentioned. But I am sure you forgot the already with your low level of dialectic argument.

    http://www.uaf.edu/northern/schools/myth.html ... "The gap in performance between American men and women in the natural sciences and in mathematics is genuine and indeed a cause for concern. But this gender gap, it is also important to recognize, affects the prospects and careers of very few people. It is far from a monumental social problem. In 1994, for example, 450 American men received doctorates in mathematics compared to 146 women. In the physical sciences, 2,335 American men received doctorates compared to 659 women (NCES, 1996, Table 266). To achieve parity in mathematics and the physical sciences would affect fewer than 2,000 women a year"

    Here is some info about how hard this report is to obtain that popularized this mythical gender gap against women in 1992, which I am sure is another conspiracy theory:

    http://www.uaf.edu/northern/schools/myth.html ... "The AAUW's own commissioned research in fact undercuts the position it trumpets---that girls receive less attention than boys. The AAUW sponsored a nationwide survey of 3,000 children between grades four and ten which forms one important statistical base for its glossy, highly publicized reports (American Association of University Women [AAUW]/Greenberg-Lake, 1990). When I tried to obtain a copy of this report, I had a difficult time.

    "While the politicized version, How Schools Shortchange Girls (1992) is available for a mere $16.95, obtaining the full data report requires a payment of $85.00 for unbound xeroxed pages. The AAUW provides an 800-number for ordering its reports, but the person I called at this number knew nothing about the full data report. I then called the AAUW offices, left messages, and waited for weeks to get telephone calls returned until I finally located someone who knew of this report.

    "That the AAUW should make the report difficult to obtain is understandable. The data from their own report do not back up the charges they publicize---that girls receive less attention from teachers.
    When asked about their personal experience, boys and girls reported receiving virtually identical amounts of attention from their teachers (Table 13). The gender differences that occur are trivial, and sometimes favor boys and sometimes favor girls."

    1. Re:Get real by porcupine8 · · Score: 1
      I said:

      a large segment of the educational research community who has picked up on the ways in which males are falling behind females in various areas and that this has become one of the new trendy research areas.

      You said:

      if anything in general boys are behind girls and need more attention

      I'm not disagreeing with the premise that the gender gap has been diminished or erased in many areas - I'm saying that many academics already agree with you and there's no BIG BAD CONSPIRACY out to get you, so calm down.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
  67. Superstitious garbage in textbooks by Loundry · · Score: 1

    I'm kind of peeved that you're so close-minded you think a little teeny bit of creativity is terrible.

    Forgive me for putting words into the parent poster's mouth, but I think he was NOT peeved by the "teeny bit of creativity". Rather, he was peeved that superstitious garbage (horoscopes, namely, and yes, they are superstitious garbage) was being inserted into the last place where it should be: a math textbook.

    Similarly, if you want to present geography material using Feng Shui rules to outline the discussion, then go for it.

    Likewise, if you want to use the Majesty of Jesus Christ to outline the discussion in English, then go for it. Hell, if it makes science learning more "fun", then why not present it using Flat Earth rules? Whatever keeps the classroom discussion going, right? We've got to get through that lesson plan at all costs!

    --
    I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
    1. Re:Superstitious garbage in textbooks by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      You can teach a lot by explaining that some things are bunk. For instance, horoscopes could be useful in a statistics class-- "you will receive good news this week", do a back of the envelope calculation of how many people that applies to, kind of assignment.

    2. Re:Superstitious garbage in textbooks by Nicolay77 · · Score: 1

      The difference is everybody knows that horoscopes are superstitious garbage. I've heard most people say: 'I know they are not true, but they are fun'.

      In the other hand, the Majesty of Jesus Christ is superstitious garbage but must people behaves as if it was an universal truth.

      Another point of view: I read a lot of science fiction. I KNOW it is fiction. It would make a huge difference in my life if I ever read a science ficion book and believe it is real.

      --
      We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
  68. Get new glasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Damn she got beaten with an ugly stick. Total butterface.

  69. It is astounding..... by aneeshm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ..... how much double standards have come to dominate our discourse.

    Let me elaborate.

    Imagine for a minute if a successful male role model had written a book explicitly for boys, in the tradition of the classical textbooks on engineering/science/mathematics, and emphasised rigour, and used examples exclusively applicable to males, using language which boys would be comfortable with (but girls would probably not). Imagine he used the default (i.e., masculine) pronoun throughout, so as to make it easier for boys to identify with any example given. Imagine that he completely ignored all the usual PC-language nonsense which the "progressive" crowd in educational circles is so fond of nowadays, and used a no-bullshit, call-a-spade-a-spade approach which boys can usually instantly grok, and are more comfortable with. Further, he would have tried to make mathematics more "manly" by making short work of the idea that boys who like mathematics are "nerds" or other social outcasts, and by identifying it with masculinity throughout the ages. Imagine he tried to bring out the kick-ass-ness of many male mathematicians throughout history, while implicitly linking their masculinity with both their mathematics and their kick-ass-ness - showing it as a complementary triad.

    Now imagine that this book had succeeded - imagine it managed to convince a large number of boys to actually learn and like mathematics, and also proved to be something which sparked off a mini-revolution in schools across the country (extremely unlikely, I know, but please bear with me for a moment). Imagine it set off a pro-mathematics trend, or managed to correct the more pernicious effects of the anti-rigour and in general anti-intellectual atmosphere found in many schools today, with special reference to the subjects of mathematics and science.

    What would have been the reaction?

    Most probably, irrespective of the merits of the book itself, and the work it may have done it get a large number of boys interested in mathematics, it would have been denounced as social commentators, feminists, assorted people from the left, maybe a few from the right, and educationists, as discriminatory, sexist, and insensitive, with probably the "racist" epithet hurled in for good measure.

    However, when a feminine role model does it, this thought does not even occur to us. We take it for granted that special books by females for females are, in some mysterious and unquestionable fashion, immune to criticisms which would be levelled against any male who did the corresponding thing for his gender.

    This is not to suggest that we should criticise this author. To the contrary, in fact - she has taken efforts to rectify what she sees as a larger cultural problem. She must be applauded for that.

    However, the point is that, the same way we applaud her, we must also applaud the hypothetical male author outlined above, for both are working towards a noble goal - that of education - in the way they think they can contribute the most. That is more than can be said for the vast majority.

    By ignoring the differences between the genders, we do society and the individuals in it, through the medium of our education policies, a great disservice. By non-judgementally accepting the differences, and optimising our education systems to take them into account, with differently structured books for girls and boys in junior and middle school is the need is felt for such, we can improve education for everyone, instead of making attempts to forcefully fit it into out pet ideological framework.

    Denying the reality of the differences between the genders because it does not fit in with our political worldview is, IMHO, as irrational as denying that some scientific fact because it does not fit in with our religious worldview.







    More generally, while speaking of mathematics, it is my opinion that teaching it in a rigorous but intuitive manner is an absolute

    1. Re:It is astounding..... by pho3nixtar · · Score: 0, Troll

      Gender inequality in favor of females is the feminists' way of getting reparations for past wrong-doings to females the same way that the black community has. Or, rather, it's gender-based affirmative action in one of its most 'glistening' moments. They want boys to turn into illiterate, ignorant, sissy neo-men that can barely take care of themselves, much less anyone else. If you don't believe that, go watch any feminist demonstration in the streets and listen to the words they use.

      Now, watch all the pseudo-intellectual, left-wing nuts start to gang up on me and lambaste me for pointing out the obvious.

    2. Re:It is astounding..... by lysse · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Imagine for a minute if a successful male role model had written a book explicitly for boys, in the tradition of the classical textbooks on engineering/science/mathematics, and emphasised rigour, and used examples exclusively applicable to males, using language which boys would be comfortable with (but girls would probably not).
      ...OK, but for the analogy to work, you also have to imagine that his book is an embroidery textbook.
    3. Re:It is astounding..... by kyb · · Score: 1
      Yes, yes, indeed there would be an outcry if anyone deliberately did this for males.

      However, your imaginary math book for boys describes almost every math book that's ever been written, even if the authors weren't writing with that intent. Find me a mechanics text book that has examples of things more traditionally associated with girls, rather than boys. Mine (even recent ones) were all weaponry, death, warfare, go carts, snooker balls. Even the modern, politically correct ones show clear signs of this kind of bias towards males. We've done such a good job historically of making masculine the default gender, that it's hard for a male to even spot how biased the things he's reading are.

      That's why it's not outrageous when someone tries to redress the balance.

    4. Re:It is astounding..... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      Imagine for a minute if a successful male role model had written a book explicitly for boys, in the tradition of the classical textbooks on engineering/science/mathematics, and emphasised rigour, and used examples exclusively applicable to males, using language which boys would be comfortable with (but girls would probably not).

      No matter what you do today, some people will delight in being offended by it. To hell with them. Do what you think is right and let the chips fall where they may.

      I might very well be getting Danica's book for my daughters. If you can find a similarly male-oriented book for my sons, please let me know. Social commentators can kiss my butt; I just want my kids to enjoy being smart.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    5. Re:It is astounding..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What would have been the reaction?

      probably the same one that this book is getting. a mix of people applauding the effort and others deriding it as sexist. if you think that no one is calling this sexist you're blind, and if you believe that no one would accept your hypothetical boy's book you're ignorant.

    6. Re:It is astounding..... by turing_m · · Score: 1

      Yep. It is as if as a society we had suddenly decided that forks were just as good a cutting tool as a knife, encouraging every fork to be used as such, cherry picking history for tales of forks with exceptionally sharp edges and teaching every child that if only everyone used the fork as their primary cutting implement, it would clearly be recognized as the equal to the knife. Indeed, it would be misfurcanistic to even suggest otherwise.

      But fortunately, in the last 50 years we have progressed beyond such backward ways, showing that the last 2000 years of the oppression of the fork to be extremely misguided. Of course, we must be ever on our guard for those sneering bigots who would exploit even the sharpest edged fork for the dull and uninspired task of spearing food, while it is ever yearning to cut! Evil must be confronted; wherever you see utensilist behavior you must have the courage to stand up and say "This... is WRONG!"

      --
      If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
    7. Re:It is astounding..... by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Yes, yes, indeed there would be an outcry if anyone deliberately did this for males.

      However, your imaginary math book for boys describes almost every math book that's ever been written, even if the authors weren't writing with that intent. Find me a mechanics text book that has examples of things more traditionally associated with girls, rather than boys. Mine (even recent ones) were all weaponry, death, warfare, go carts, snooker balls. Even the modern, politically correct ones show clear signs of this kind of bias towards males. We've done such a good job historically of making masculine the default gender, that it's hard for a male to even spot how biased the things he's reading are.

      That's why it's not outrageous when someone tries to redress the balance.


      So males are automatically associated with weaponry, death, warfare, go karts, and snooker balls? That's about as bad as automatically associating girls with cute bunny rabbits, frilly dresses, kittens, and scented markers. Why don't we cut out the sexism and just start writing good books that appeal to anyone?

  70. MODS: How is this flamebait? by Prien715 · · Score: 1

    It's funny how people choose which races to recognize and which ones not. You could've replaced the unspoken with 'and he's Scottish', which is an equally valid statement. But you didn't, and why it seems obvious that you didn't is the heart of the issue.

    This is not an attack against the poster, it's pointing out that everyone tends to notice when people are black but not when they're Scots. When 'being black' and 'being Scottish' mean the same thing in this country, either racism will be over or we'll have some unhappy Scots;)

    (Is pointing out African American are underprivileged and discriminated against as a class flamebait?)

    --
    -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
  71. It's mostly innate by Loundry · · Score: 1

    Girls are told they're supposed to aspire to beauty above all else. The idea here is to show them that you can have that without giving up intelligence.

    In other words, the book is telling girls that they don't have to sacrifice what is most important to them (their marketability to men, measured primarily in looks) to have a geeky job. Therefore, the book that you're praising is part of the sinister "they" who are telling girls that they're supposed to aspire to beauty above all else.

    Or maybe what you observe isn't actually the sinister machinations of a wicked patriarchal plot. Maybe women's desire to be beautiful to men is mostly an innate desire. Doesn't that seem to coincide with men's mostly innate desire to have as many sexual partners as possible?

    --
    I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
    1. Re:It's mostly innate by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      First, you're really barking up the wrong tree with me. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and don't have any interest in "wicked patriarchal plots" and all that. Second, I'm sure it is innate. Biologically speaking, the more attractive we are, the more likely we are to reproduce. I'm cool with that.

      Still, and perhaps I'm just looking for it now that I have daughters, it really does seem like girls are pushed toward beauty with all else as a secondary goal. It looks like Danica is picking her battle wisely. There's no way she could ever singlehandedly turn culture and biology to believe that beauty is unimportant. Instead, she's saying that you can have that without sacrificing your intelligence. Girls don't have to choose. And frankly, I like that message and wish her the best with it.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    2. Re:It's mostly innate by Loundry · · Score: 1

      I understand, and I apologize for taking the lecturing tone with you. That said, do you think that, "it really does seem like girls are pushed toward beauty with all else as a secondary goal" is a bit too strong? If such a thing really is an innate desire, as you believe, then is the market merely responding to demand (as opposed to there being some kind of "push")?

      --
      I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
    3. Re:It's mostly innate by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      To a point, sure - I'd say it's responding to market forces. Still, it's a long way from "here's how to work with what you've got" to "try to be Kate Moss, but skinnier".

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    4. Re:It's mostly innate by Loundry · · Score: 1

      The problem is that girls *want* to be Kate Moss; specifically, they want to be more beautiful than other girls so that they can attract (and, more importantly, keep) a good man. "Here's how to work with what you've got" is a tacit accusation of ugliness, and that does NOT sell. In other words, the only reason that there is a push for "try to be Kate Moss, but skinnier" is because that's what girls want. Now another way to approach this problem is for our culture to redefine the standard of beauty for women. Then there would be market for plus-sized dolls, as girls will then, like now, pursue their innate desire to become more beautiful to land a good man. I suppose then that there would be people who would accuse others of "pushing" a standard of "overweight" girls and marginalizing other girls. In the end, it's easier to blame Barbie than to change culture, so have at it.

      --
      I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
    5. Re:It's mostly innate by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      Again, I'm really not the best person to argue this with. I don't particular care to change culture or blame Barbie. My girls play with Barbies because they like them, and my son gets trucks because he likes them. It's my perception that society (and magazine in particular) seem to want to push a certain desire to young girls, but I'm not so convinced that I could actually defend the point. It was just an observation, and one that I acknowledge may not seem valid to others.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    6. Re:It's mostly innate by Loundry · · Score: 1

      I disagree that it is your perception that society "seems to want to push a certain desire to young girls". I would, instead, call that a suspicion. What you perceive, rightly, is culture (in particular, magazines) that showcases "beautiful" (meaning thin, proper hip-to-waist-ratio, large-breasted, made-up, etc.) women as opposed to "ugly" (the opposites of what I listed) women. Why does our culture do this? What you suspect is that there is a push emanating from those in control of culture (magazines in particular) in order to pressure girls look a certain way. I don't share your suspicion because I don't see any evidence for it. Perhaps some testimonies from moguls of women's magazines would change my mind.

      --
      I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
  72. but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All words are made up.

  73. Square peg, round hole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If a math book needs to include "a horoscope, cute doodles of shoes and jewelry", perhaps the audience isn't really all that interested in math. Maybe you can trick them into enjoying math with baby talk, but they will never ever be as good at math as somebody that doesn't need 'cute doodles' to be interested in it. Maybe you can put a horoscope in a 'boy' math book so they can see the value of horoscopes, eh?

  74. Doh! by kalaf · · Score: 1

    That should have been one became a Chiropractor and ANOTHER became a drunk...

  75. Winnie certainly grew up by Chriscypher · · Score: 1

    Softcore spread in Maxim:

    http://www.maximmag.co.uk/maximgirls/celebrities/2 860/danica_mckellar.html

    Makes me wish she'd calculate my root.

    --
    "You have liberated me from thought."
    1. Re:Winnie certainly grew up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I'm not shy. There's nothing unclassy about being naked" Unless you have no ass AND no tits; then you just making a goddamned fool of yourself. Complete airbrushed unexciting sellout. Not at all concerned with young girls, this actually goes towards making them more insecure, the ones who care about math that is.

  76. So much for being the smarter gender by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are women really that stupid?

    I really hope this doesn't mean the end of intellectual thought in the world. I can see it in the history books of the future now...

    "Once Danica McKella coined the term "refliprocal" to coax retarded and lazy young girls (who are normally too absorbed in pop-culture fads) into understanding and enjoying math, society (which in those times was directed almost entirely by women's interests) took the final set in abandoning intelligent forms of writing in favor of acronyms, abbreviations, slang and the rest of the mindless drivel commonly used in text-based communication. Having abolished proper English, other core forms of intelligence began to fad away until all remnants of human intelligence were lost."

    Although, I guess it's more likely that this would appear as a random scribble of feces on a wall. And it would likely be interpreted by other neo-humans as tasty wall sauce.
    [/hyperbole]

  77. Oh, score one for the Bander-Log! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "solid progressive thinking" - Well, after decades of fighting the pinheads who want to dumb computers down, it's nice to know the other subjects are in the same shape.

    In fact, scholastic subjects are *constantly* the target of "solid progressive thinking" - New Math, Ebonics, Montessori method, et al. Just wait until these young women get into the real world and find out their manager doesn't humor their use of 'refliprocal'. Then they get discouraged when they notice that the rest of their peers learned real math, while they were taught the special bubblegum-flavored 'math lite' because, presumably, their feeble brains just weren't capable of understanding the same math everybody else uses.

    Typical Western Capitalist thinking - Students failing? Don't teach harder; just teach less! After all, it's not like we expect them to deal with a far more advanced and complex world, is it?

  78. English/Maths performance inequity for boys/girls by Muttley · · Score: 1

    The issue of girls 'underperforming' in Maths has been tackled strongly since the 90s. What has not been addressed successfully is a corresponding inequity in performance of boys in English. In Australia, in EVERY field, girls are out performing boys under the age of 25. It depends how you measure it of course. If you consider whether on average boys or girls score higher, then it is girls, if you look at the top say 10%, then in a maths unit there will usually be more men, but the top student may be a girl (much more likely than 20 years ago).

    I think that there has been a tragic overlooking of boys performance in English. For many years there has been an agenda to say that girls are capable of doing anything boys can; with a particular focus on offering scholarships for women in engineering, and targetting women in early high school for mathematics education. These have both done a lot of good for increasing participation of women in Mathematics/Engineering. Alternatively, we are now faced by a chronic shortage of male primary educators, and teachers in general, and there is probably a need for scholarships addressing this issue.

    Something as important as the ability to communicate should not be assumed to be 'difficult' for boys to learn. My personal experience is having attended a boys school that was one of the strongest maths schools in my state, but one of the weakest in english. This was part accepted as a 'boy thing', part ignored as unimportant. A noticable difference is that maths was streamed from first year high school until the end, whereas english was only streamed for the last 2 years. I believe in coeducational classes to benefit both boys and girls and a departure from an educational focus on the gender differences of each group and more on the educational similarity

    --
    M.
  79. Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As long as we laugh at Hillary Clinton for being cuckholded, we are telling our daughters and sisters that it is more important to be a cum-bucket than a brain. We laugh at Bill too, for being a lecher. Both of them are the butts of jokes.

    The only man I have ever seen criticised for his appearance the way a woman is is Michael Moore. Bush is criticized because he looks like a monkey. Ross Perot and Prince Charles were made fun of because of their huge ears. Bill Clinton was made fun of because of his "pasty white thighs".
  80. joey lawrence by rubberbandball · · Score: 0

    "Mayim Bialik -- star of Blossom and a PhD in neuroscience"

    whoa!

    --
    oh marmalade.
  81. Notable quote(able) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From TFA:

    WN: Would you say you're on a mission(ary position)?

    McKellar: Yes. Absolutely.

  82. "dumbing down" by Moniker42 · · Score: 0

    I can see lots of people complaining about "dumbing down" maths as if there's something wrong with that... I can see why there could be complaints about, say, simplifying an English language course by changing things - because that would remove some of the content. Arty subjects are inherently hard, but I see no reason why mathematics can't change some of its language and methods to make it easy for students, because although I'm not prone to saying "when are we ever going to use any of this nonsense in real life" in my math classes, the fact is that the vast majority of people won't do mathematics past high-school level (algebra and arithmetic etc, the essentials). You don't need to know all the complexities of mathematics unless you're doing it (or a related subject like physics) at college.

  83. Loose testicles by pestie · · Score: 1

    Yeah, it's quite important to know the distinction between "lose" and "loose" when testicles are involved.

    1. Re:Loose testicles by monomania · · Score: 1
      I said Testicals, my god, and I stand be the misspellin'.

      In return for which specification, your approbation will be accepted lip-wise at a point (at the tip 'o my) choosing.... he. meh.

  84. I hate you by pestie · · Score: 1, Funny

    Jokes like that are the reason I desperately wish that technology had advanced to the point where I could punch someone in the nuts via the internet.

  85. Whore-o-scope by pestie · · Score: 1

    I was going to say that I was waiting for someone to invent the whore-o-scope - a device for scoping out whores. Then I remembered that the webcam had already been invented.

  86. So how bout one for Sk8trs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Getting girls to do math is great.
    Now what about my skater boys who think math sucks (thanks to UCSMP's Everyday Math, his grades went from A to C- in 1 month).

  87. Dumbing it down, Again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's really sad that you have to use this kind of dumbing down to reach people. For god's sake if you can't grasp the word reciprocal and its underlying concept then you have problems!! Far more problems than a single "book" is going to solve. I'm absolutely disgusted that it was published like a teeny mag. If one has no determination to learn they are not going to learn, period. It is a shame when someone who is supposedly smart thinks they have an answer in something that is completely moronic. Sesame Street Syndrom: Designing an eductaion medium that relies on flashy picures or constant stimulation to capture the pupil's attention. Our education "system" was degined to make you view knowledge as boring. It starts young, by the time they get that book it is already too late; the damage is done to society even if they lurch through all the "hard" math. The only reeaon math is "hard" (whaah! whaah!) is because it is delivered out of context. People need problems to apply the abstract concepts of math to. By the time they have graduated highschool though they don't don't even know what "abstract" means!! This book is just more or the same problem; more Sesame Street. If people were taught to learn they would care enough about SOMETHING to apply math to themselves.

  88. Re:Grammar? What grammar? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    (English? Have you seen my grammar? Seriously, it got lost somewhere around second grade.)

    While you may mean this jokingly, compared to most of the rest of America, your grammar is superb. I read quite a bit of junk on teh intarwebs these days and I think that - as far as grammar is concerned - the bar has been lowered a bit too far. And I don't mean to implicate just teen texters; quite a few of the emails I get from engineers and other 'professionals' these days read like pages from a kids' book, yet these people (in most cases) hold advanced degrees in their fields. In most instances I can puzzle out the meaning, but when did flawless, written English become some sort of arcane art?
  89. Math *is* hard by spaceyhackerlady · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The best math always is. It's hard, gives you a headache, you lose sleep trying to figure it out. But once you do you are astonished at how elegant it is and how it all fits together so beautifully. And it doesn't matter in the slightest what anatomy you have between your legs, or what your 23rd chromosome pair looks like.

    I object to the word "mathematics" being debased to elementary-school arithmetic. But that's another matter.

    ...laura

    1. Re:Math *is* hard by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The best math always is. It's hard, gives you a headache, you lose sleep trying to figure it out. But once you do you are astonished at how elegant it is and how it all fits together so beautifully.
      Wrong. So wrong.

      Yes mathematics gives you a headache. Frequently you don't get it. Frequently you must spend weeks on a topic before getting it. Often it may elude you for years. Then you finally get it, and usually hard work and effort has absolutely nothing to do with that.

      The sad fact is, people think mathematics is hard because most mathematicians are lousy at explaining it. It's not explained properly and as a result people struggle with it until they finally come across a resource or idea or epiphany that allows them to realize the in retrospect blindingly obvious idea that lay behind the whole topic. What to know why it seems so "elegant" and obvious in retrospect. It's because it is obvious, as long as you were taught it correctly.

      Best example I can think of offhand is determinants? Remember those? I'll bet there's a lot of people here who went through the whole spiel with them over and over and all the while didn't have a clue what they were all about. Let me tell you what they are, or quote a better man than I on the subject. "The determinant of a matrix is an (oriented) volume of the parallelepiped whose edges are its columns." You see, that's what a determinant actually is, but most student are never taught that most essential fact. Once you get that, the rest is all just formulae around it. But most are just taught the formulae. Most of mathematics is taught like this. Form without essence. It's a tradgedy. The greater tragedy is people think all this incompetence is a result of mathematics being "hard". It's just hard to teach, not to learn.

      Here's a link to a much longer rant which shows just how big a problem the teaching of mathematics has become in some quarters.
      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    2. Re:Math *is* hard by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      I object to the word "mathematics" being debased to elementary-school arithmetic.
      The thing is, as McKeller points out, that you will never get to the hard stuff if you let yourself be intimidated by elementary stuff.

      If you read Danica McKeller's thesis (the abstract begins: "For a region of the nearest-neighbour ferromagnetic Ashkin-Teller spin systems on Z^2, we characterize the existence of multiple Gibbs states via percolation. In particular, there are multiple Gibbs states if and only if there exists percolation of any of the spin types ..") you'll see that it is definitely in the "hard math" realm. McKeller's Erdos number is 4. What's yours?
    3. Re:Math *is* hard by asc99c · · Score: 1

      I've always been pretty good at maths and can understand it with a little effort. But I think maths is pretty similar to learning a second language - once you get used to it, you stop translating it to English and the formula IS the maths. I never got good enough at a foreign language that I could stop translating to/from English.

      Having written all this, I wonder if for many people maths is just a lot like doing a French lesson where the teacher jumps immediately to hosting the class in French, and explaining what you're supposed to be doing in French. Back when I was at school, I tended to get a bit lost in these sort of lessons. It almost seems odd that it's not often the same people who can do languages that can do maths

    4. Re:Math *is* hard by Nebu · · Score: 1

      The sad fact is, people think mathematics is hard because most mathematicians are lousy at explaining it. [...]

      Best example I can think of offhand is determinants? Remember those? I'll bet there's a lot of people here who went through the whole spiel with them over and over and all the while didn't have a clue what they were all about. Let me tell you what they are, or quote a better man than I on the subject. "The determinant of a matrix is an (oriented) volume of the parallelepiped whose edges are its columns." You see, that's what a determinant actually is, but most student are never taught that most essential fact. Once you get that, the rest is all just formulae around it. But most are just taught the formulae.

      (emphasis added) (no comment)
    5. Re:Math *is* hard by anaesthetica · · Score: 1

      For real. I read that paragraph expecting to read an explanation. And when I read that, I thought, "oh, this must be the jargon he's railing against, surely the common english must follow." But I was wrong, oh so wrong. I guess I still have no fucking clue what a determinant is.

  90. Cricket? by pjt33 · · Score: 1

    Do baseball matches take 5 days?

    1. Re:Cricket? by jagdish · · Score: 1

      And still have no results at the end!

  91. Are you sure it's not because... by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

    reciprocity is a bad word for girls to know?

  92. Re:discrimination against whom??? by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 1

    Do you know the enrolment figures for your local university? Where I live there are 3 women entering for every 2 men. And yet the message we keep getting is that it is women that are being held back, discriminated against etc.

    Why not check your local university and see what it's like where you live.

    --
    The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
  93. 30-something years old... by kollywabbles · · Score: 1

    And I have a crush on Winnie Cooper AGAIN. I thought I was over that crap 15 years ago.

    --
    put it in the bit bucket
  94. MOD PARENT +5! by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

    Teenagers, despite occasionally lacking all other intellectual faculties, always know when an adult tries to deceive them.

    Rather than telling kids that math is "cool", we should tell them the truth: that math is the difficult yet incredibly fascinating process of rigorous (usually quantitative) reasoning, and that it can yield interesting and useful results if learned and applied correctly. Even the teens who still hate math will at least respect the adults that told the truth about it.

  95. Mod Parent Up by mackyrae · · Score: 1

    Well said!

    --
    look! it's a bird, it's a plane, it's....a girl? yes, a girl browsing Slashdot on Linux
  96. Re:Nice try, but... there is no nerdy stigma by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    nerdy? at nicer schools competition to get into college is incredible. it is hardly nerdy, with parents pushing kids into extra curriculars and sat study programs there is intense competition going on with both sexes. it isn't the 1950's any more. anyone that pretends it is just lives in fantasy.

    never mind the FACTS, women are the majority at uni's now. women dominate programs like medicine, doctors not just nursing. nerdy keeping them from being doctors?

    give me a break.

  97. Re:"Attractive young women" they aren't told by Teriblows · · Score: 1

    they don't have to be told, its simple evolution. its an advantage for a woman to be attractive. it can bring wealth far beyond what a math degree can bring. there are models making massive amounts of money for photoshoots and "acting". male models make relatively little by comparison. its perfectly rational to leverage beauty into money.

  98. Re:Random bits from the book...ugh......dude. by Teriblows · · Score: 1

    male homemakers? do you know why this is unpopular? do you???? WOMEN DON'T WANT SUCH MEN!! surveys show women only want to date men with equal or higher education with higher salaries than themselves. very few want to marry down to get a man willing to be the wife. its a problem that is easily solved by marrying down, but women don't "want" that. you say male homemakers aren't respected, well main lack of disrespect is from the women. men do what they need to do to become successful so they can marry a good woman, there is no current incentive to do anything different. its unrealistic to believe its going to change anytime in the near future. we are talking human nature here after all, women have been competing for the most powerful men for the longest time. women that can offer beauty and personal sacrifice are going to out compete some chick with a math degree and no time to raise children any day. thats just the ugly reality. Leaving morons to turn their offspring into morons was society's worst mistake in some centuries - almost on a par with accepting the notions of the state and religion. Until those three notions are reversed, things are going to continue to get worse, not better. whats moronic? spending all your time at work until you are unfertile and old? or having children and a balanced life? evolution certainly considers one superior to the other. "smart" isn't always what you think. You should not feel badly about paying someone to clean for you. First, it gives you time to do other things in life that add to your well being, which will make you and society better. Second, it provides income to another person who can then use the money to improve his or her situation. Everybody wins. I also pay someone to clean, though it is every week because I have a dog that sheds like crazy.
    actually you should, because by the reasoning being pushed you are oppressing them. you should be teaching them high level math so they can become liberated instead of making them your slave.

  99. Women are not oppressed... by cptnapalm · · Score: 1

    Why does the media flip out over a few points difference in math scores where girls do not do as well, while the fact that the suicide rate for boys is five times higher than that of girls is mentioned only to be discarded, like in this weeks Time magazine?

  100. It's a great idea by Deborah+Marcotte · · Score: 1

    Anything to create interest in the sciences.... 4 stars

  101. Hope she can write better than she can act by elrous0 · · Score: 1

    This is the actress that I often point to when I explain the concept of limited acting "range." If you watch those old Wonder Years, you'll see that she has exactly one emotion: anxiety. Happy scene? She's anxious. Sad scene? She's anxious. Any other scene? She's anxious.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  102. Christ on crutches. by Ayanami+Rei · · Score: 1

    No, that's just YOUR WOMAN and she's an idiot (and you for marrying her).
    QED

    --
    THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
  103. Re:Random bits from the book...ugh......dude. by utopianfiat · · Score: 1

    men do what they need to do to become successful so they can marry a good woman, there is no current incentive to do anything different.

    Except to, y'know, eat, and become socially justified in their existence. The traditional patriarch's view of the world has "a good husband" being a man who is socially and financially independent plus surplus to provide for a family. The "purpose" of the woman is perceived to be the perfect childbearer and accessory for the man- A woman who is attractive to a man is provided for because she becomes his accessory and benefits from his social and financial capitol.
    The problem with "independent" women is that independence isn't enough. An "independent" woman is just independent, and there's no implication that she can actually be in the place of the traditional patriarch. Homemaking men could change this perception.

    evolution certainly considers one superior to the other.

    Discussion over. Social Darwinism is a pseudoscience.

    --
    +5, Truth
  104. Easy does it by Ambidisastrous · · Score: 1

    Starting with "parallelepiped" probably wasn't the best way to explain the determinant to non-mathematicians.

    Fortunately, it works in two dimensions, too. Draw a parallelogram:

        A_____B
      / *** /
    C_____D

    Get the coordinates of each of the vertices:

    A = (1, 3)
    B = (5, 3)
    C = (0, 0)
    D = (4, 0)

    The area of the parallelogram is the base (4) times the height (3) = 12. Geometry.

    Now pick any two sides and call them your vectors -- say, CA and CD. These two vectors span the parallelogram.

    CA = [1 3]
    CD = [4 0]


    Then the area of the parallelogram ABCD is also the (absolute value of the) determinant of the matrix created by placing those two vectors in columns:

    | 1 4 |
    | 3 0 |

    det = | 1*0 - 3*4 | = | -12 | = 12

    Same number. Linear algebra.

    To get to what the previous poster said, picture exactly the same thing in three dimensions instead of two. A parallelepiped is a three-dimensional parallelogram, more or less -- a block, optionally tilted, is an example. So, given a 3x3 matrix, turn the three columns into vectors, and picture the space that the vectors span. The determinant of the 3x3 matrix is the area of that block.

    So now you know better than most beginning math majors what a determinant is.