Attack of the Evil Monkeys From Hell

grrlscientist writes "A new form of communication between wild vervet monkeys and humans is causing humans distress — and a collapse of their food supply. Approximately 300 vervet monkeys in Kenya are sexually harassing the women of a village so they can steal their crops. None of the attempts to discourage the monkeys has so far worked."

Comments

Family Guy warned us

[ZachMG]

i mean come on, we should have seen it coming, "theres a evil monkey in my closet"

Re:Family Guy warned us

[BakaHoushi]

If these monkeys were "in the closet," though, would they be going after WOMEN?

Re:Family Guy warned us

[schon]

If these monkeys were "in the closet," though, would they be going after WOMEN? That's a pretty silly question - of course they would.

It's the ones that have come out of the closet that wouldn't. :)

Re:Family Guy warned us

[Anonymous Coward]

You're assuming they're male monkeys.

Tit-for-Tat

[pipingguy]

Have they tried flinging feces at the monkeys yet?

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[Aqua OS X]

No, just spanking.

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[Anonymous Coward]

They can even practice online first:
http://www.addictinggames.com/supermonkeyp oopflinging.html

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[Anonymous Coward]

*sigh* That actually seems like a valid question.

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[MarkRose]

Hey now, we don't need any more wild monkey sex.

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[ozmanjusri]

Have they tried flinging feces at the monkeys yet?

Oddly enough, that would probably be the best approach.

Small animals like vervet monkeys are often highly sensitive to predator urine and feces, so getting hold of some lion, leopard, hyena or wild dog dung and "flinging" it around would almost certainly act as a deterrent.

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[mqduck]

we don't need any more wild monkey sex. Or DO we?

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[TheDreadSlashdotterD]

One George W is enough. No more monkey human hybrids!

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[spiderbitendeath]

It's not nice to insult the monkeys like that.

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[Hijacked Public]

I don't know about that. As I've been through Kenya and most of the surrounding area a few times it seem to me that the best solution would be the opposite of what most Slashdotters are proposing here.

I say the Kenyan government should give the monkeys full human rights. Set aside an area of the country designated a monkey habitat and enshrine in law the monkeys' collective ownership of that land.

Then announce to the Western world that a routine governmental survey has found something of great value on the monkey-land. Gold, oil, rhodium, manganese, pretty flowers. Anything that can be collected and sold will do. The rest will take care of itself.

Before long armored divisions will start showing up to keep the peace. Machine gun bunkers will be built. Far overhead, out of sight of the monkeys, billion dollar airplanes will peer down throught their bombsights, trying to locate the laser the ground team is shining on a mudpile monkey hut so the bomber crew can precisely deliver a million dollar payload of explosives to eradicate the hut and all its occupants from the face of the earth.

An opposing monkey faction would be developed by dangling the carrot of power in front of an influential but well liked monkey leader of a monkey splinter group. To this faction the West could provide weapons, in return for assurances that when power was consolidated the weapon providers could expect the favor to be repaid. We just want to see an end to the monkey terror, you see.

But, with the other hand, the West could make sure that power never was consolidated. This way the monkeys would set themselves to the task of continually collecting whatever natural resource it was the West wanted, so they could afford a continual supply of weapons to fight a war that would never end.

If that isn't a time and again proven effective method of monkey subordination I don't know what is.

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[mi]

Then announce to the Western world that a routine governmental survey has found something of great value on the monkey-land. Gold, oil, rhodium, manganese, pretty flowers. Anything that can be collected and sold will do. The rest will take care of itself.

Has not worked in Darfur, for some reason, has it?

If that isn't a time and again proven effective method of monkey subordination I don't know what is.

You don't, indeed.

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[Borgschulze]

This won't work, George Bush probably won't want to kill his own family.

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[Hijacked Public]

Has not worked in Darfur, for some reason, has it? Because someone else got the upper hand there, and the oil flows the other direction. Do you think people see the "Made in China" stamp just before bullet goes through their heads? Think they care?

Lets do Nigeria next. Or the DRC, you pick.

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[Original Replica]

"Small animals like vervet monkeys are often highly sensitive to predator urine and feces,"

Small animals like vervet monkeys are also often highly sensitive to high velocity lead. They are probably sensitive to baseball bats and most good farming tools. They are 16" tall and weigh 10 pounds, why the fuck are the going to run you off your land? The first two that die will scare the rest off, problem solved.

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[Anonymous Coward]

A most memorable and insightful post - this is why I read Slashdot.

Thank you.

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[sowth]

Yeah, but the article says it is illegal to kill the monkeys.

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[Maelwryth]

Oh, you have been listening to Roger Waters as well?

The monkey sat on a pile of stones
And stared at the broken bone in his hand
And the stains of a Viennese quartet
Rang out across the land
The monkey looked up at the stars
And thought to himself
Memory is a stranger
History is for fools
And he cleaned his hands
In a pool of holy writing
Turned his back on the garden
And set out for the nearest town
Hold on hold on soldier
When you add it all up
The tears and the marrowbone
There's an ounce of gold
And an ounce of pride in each ledger
And the Germans killed the Jews
And the Jews killed the Arabs
And the Arabs killed the hostages
And that is the news
And is it any wonder
That the monkey's confused
He said Mama Mama
The President's a fool
Why do I have to keep reading
These technical manuals
And the joint chiefs of staff
And the brokers on Wall Street said
Don't make us laugh
You're a smart kid
Time is linear
Memory is a stranger
History is for fools
Man is a tool in the hands
Of the great God Almighty
And they gave him command
Of a nuclear submarine
And sent him back in search of
The Garden of Eden

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[mi]

Because someone else got the upper hand there, and the oil flows the other direction. Do you think people see the "Made in China" stamp just before bullet goes through their heads? Think they care?

Whatever — the point was, the prescribed "insightful" (if racist) method is, unfortunately, baloney...

Lets do Nigeria next. Or the DRC, you pick.

I strongly doubt either one of them would invade a neighbor and be foolish enough to pick the neighbor, who happens to be our ally... The world's scumbags have learned that lesson.

Your an OP's continuing insinuations, that we are in a "war for oil" is baloney too. Removing the embargo (which the rest of UN wanted to do, France especially) and buying oil from Saddam Hussein would've been far cheaper and easier, than even the most optimistic version of invasion imagined in 2002.

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[j35ter]

I strongly doubt either one of them would invade a neighbor and be foolish enough to pick the neighbor, who happens to be our ally... The world's scumbags have learned that lesson.

You reaffirm your allies bloodthirsty, medieval, religious, monarchistic, murderous regime? Oh, sorry, Kuwait is a "democracy", of course!

buying oil from Saddam Hussein would've been far cheaper and easier

You insensitive clod! Until now, i comforted my self with the thought that oil might be the real reason for the Iraq invasion. The thought that Oil might *not* have been the real reason, gives me the creeps.... ("Saddam tried to kill my dad")

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[mi]

You reaffirm your allies bloodthirsty, medieval, religious, monarchistic, murderous regime?

I do? Where? Whatever Kuwait's faults, Iraq was, actually, worse. But that's internal to each country — as long as they keep it internal. We might criticize them, but we would not invade on the grounds of "poor government". Even in the face of genocide (as in Yugoslavia, Rwanda, Darfur), we'd be dragging our feet agonizing over the non-interference principles.

i comforted my self with the thought that oil might be the real reason for the Iraq invasion ...

No, it is unbelievably stupid to allege, that "stealing oil" was our reason. Only the least-educated of the "Arab street" think so... If this really were our motivation, we would've taken over Saudi Arabia and Kuwait (both governed by rather unpleasant regimes, BTW). And, of course, something as desperate as Congo would've been an even lower-hanging fruit (would've been good for them, actually).

But no, that was not our reason — these days natural resources are much easier bought that stolen.

"Saddam tried to kill my dad"

He did? Khmm... I don't know anything about your family, unfortunately. Nor do I know another American, whose dad was explicitly and deliberately targeted by Saddam Hussein. No, our reasons were simpler — Saddam attacked our ally (in 1991), we drove him out and ceased fire — pretty much on the board. We would not even help the hapless Shia, who rose up expecting our help (that foot-dragging was America's shame too).

But Saddam has violated many items of the peace agreement — he initially promised to destroy those (in)famous WMDs within 12 months, for example, but still had them in 1997 and some remnants were even found in 2003-4. He also continued to sponsor terrorism against our other ally — Israel — to the tune of $10K for each suicide bombing (the last payouts were given out a month before our invasion). His ground forces continued to attack our patrolling planes. List of smaller violations (such accounting for all Kuwaiti prisoners) is longer...

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[Anonymous Coward]

these days natural resources are much easier bought that stolen. That would be true if it weren't for the fact that the people doing the fighting and the people getting the resources we the same, but they aren't. Why bother buying the mineral rights to Darfur off Ebay when you have the world's most powerful army at your disposal?

Considering you have BP saying things like "We need regulatory certainty" before they expand an existing facility inside the United States, why would you think they'd be willing to build an entire drilling operation in the middle of Africa without security enforced by bombs?

would've been good for them, actually And, actually, that sums up your entire foreign policy view. We know what is good for you.

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[mabba18]

But if these people are starving to death, do you think they will care. It is a sad thing that these animals lives are worth more then these peoples lives.

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[Colin Smith]

i comforted my self with the thought that oil might be the real reason for the Iraq invasion ... No, it is unbelievably stupid to allege, that "stealing oil" was our reason. Only the least-educated of the "Arab street" think so... If this really were our motivation, we would've taken over Saudi Arabia and Kuwait (both governed by rather unpleasant regimes, BTW). And, of course, something as desperate as Congo would've been an even lower-hanging fruit (would've been good for them, actually).

But no, that was not our reason -- these days natural resources are much easier bought that stolen. Yes... With money which is printed on US printing presses for $0.01 (or less) per $100. Course. Saudi and Kuwait are good little countries which accept said bits of green paper in return for their oil. Iraq, wanted European printed paper instead.

But Saddam has violated many items of the peace agreement -- he initially promised to destroy those (in)famous WMDs within 12 months, for example, but still had them in 1997 and some remnants were even found in 2003-4. Nothing was found. There were no weapons. What triggered the invasion was the decision Saddam made in 2000 to stop using the US dollar as a reserve currency. The whole US economy is based on the US dollar being the world reserve currency and that status was threatened by Saddam. It is now threatened by Iran and Venezuela... Expect "regime change" of some sort in both countries fairly soon. Coup, revolution, civil war or perhaps even invasion.

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[mi]

he initially promised to destroy those (in)famous WMDs within 12 months, for example, but still had them in 1997 and some remnants were even found in 2003-4.

Nothing was found. There were no weapons.

I wonder, if you worked for the Iraqi government... Let me roast your lying stomach on the burning rays of facts:

1997 The UN disarmament commission concludes that Iraq has continued to conceal information on biological and chemical weapons and missiles (Oct 23). Iraq expels American members of the UN inspection team (Nov. 13).

And then:

Jan. 16, 2003 UN inspectors discover 11 undeclared empty chemical warheads in Iraq.

And then, post-invastion:

Since 2003 Coalitions forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent.

Didn't you just post: "Nothing was found"? Oops...

We now proceed to the cold void darkness of your knowledge of Economics:

What triggered the invasion was the decision Saddam made in 2000 to stop using the US dollar as a reserve currency. The whole US economy is based on the US dollar being the world reserve currency and that status was threatened by Saddam.

Khmm, it does not even puzzle you, what we were objecting to before 2000, huh? I don't just mean the battles of 1991, but also those later Clinton-style operations... But, whatever, the truth remains is that as long as that euro (or yen) currency remains freely convertible into dollars, we don't really care. As long as those Kuwaitis and Saudis continue to spend their earnings (in whatever currency) investing in our companies, on our planes and automobiles, we don't care. And even if they chose to Japanese electronics or a Mercedes — that's fine too. As long as nothing threatens the free markets, America will prosper along with the better part of humanity.

It is now threatened by Iran and Venezuela... Expect "regime change" of some sort in both countries fairly soon. Coup, revolution, civil war or perhaps even invasion.

Both are rather overdue for regime change. If you dislike Bush, you should abhor Chavez. But to "earn" an invasion, they have to be messing (or threatening to mess) with the neighbors militarily. Iran does, and may, indeed, get it... Chavez tried to (help FARC), but stopped years ago and now confines himself to domestic matters — such as removing term-limits on (his) Presidency...

Re:Tit-for-Tat

[JoelKatz]

What is tat? Where can I get it? And how do I trade it for that other thing?

(With apologies to whoever said this first. Saturday Night Live?)

Not that hard of a problem to solve

[Anonymous Coward]

Shoot the damn monkeys already

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[19thNervousBreakdown]

Just make sure to lock your guns up, since they're breaking into homes. Monkey see, monkey do.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a criminal offense to harm them.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[gujo-odori]

Like nobody ever poached in Africa? It's a criminal offense to hunt gorillas too, yet there's a real possibility of hunting driving gorillas to extinction in the wild.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[Anonymous Coward]

Like nobody ever poached in Africa? It's a criminal offense to hunt gorillas too, yet there's a real possibility of hunting driving gorillas to extinction in the wild. I'm not sure you realize that we don't live in bizzaro-logic world. Just because people poach gorillas and get away with it does not by default mean that these villagers could kill monkeys and get away with it. It isn't as if the authorities will say "well gorillas are going extinct so we might as well shoot some monkeys."

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad the monkeys didn't mimic the humans' farming habits.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[gujo-odori]

But it means it would be about as hard to catch them. Somebody shoots some monkeys. You've got no witnesses, no weapon, maybe not even bodies if they have enough time. Who are you going to arrest?

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[aevan]

"Some apes, it seems, are more equal than others."

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck the law. Kill the damn monkeys and eat them.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[Anonymous Coward]

That's no way to talk about Kenyans...

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[SL Baur]

They can sanction the whole village and given current conditions in other places in Africa, one would suppose those monkeys have friends in high places in that country and I suppose a lot can happen in retaliation.

After all, how did they learn to make rude human sexual gestures in the first place? Somebody taught them and TFA does say they are a protected species. Put two and two together and what do you get?

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[QuantumG]

Werd. Then take that gun and overthrow your corrupt ass governments and demand liberty!

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[mrjb]

It's a criminal offense to harm them. If it is a crime to try to survive, the monkeys have already won, and the villagers will starve to death.

Seriously though. Last time I checked, fighting for survival never stopped being a right of every living thing on the planet. Even a court will have to recognize this. The villagers have tried to get rid of the monkeys without harming them, and it doesn't work- it has driven them to famine relief. Should they kill monkeys from now on, I don't think a lawyer would have any trouble defending the case. Even if someone ends up doing jail time, it's better to be tried by 12 than to be carried by 6.

Furthermore, these monkeys are probably intelligent enough to stay away once they understand that they can be killed. Shooting blanks from that point on should be enough from that point on (it would probably even work for creatures as intelligent as humans).

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[Znork]

You could always claim the monkey was shot resisting arrest.

If they're so far antropomorphized that they're making rude gestures, it's probably time to demonstrate the finer points of law to them.

I mean, obviously, these monkeys need sensitivity training.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[Anonymous Coward]

Put two and two together and what do you get?

The weirdest fucking /. post ever.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[Anonymous Coward]

As an african from a different tribe (the white tribe) I'd advice you to look at it like this:
We have a clash between two "civilisations" here - one consisting of monkeys, the other consisting of Kaffirs.
Seems like this is going to be a close one.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[gujo-odori]

Best bet on where they learned to make sexual gestures? Watching the people in the village. Lesson learned? Never flip off a monkey :)

TFA says the monkeys have avoided traps and poisoned food, so someone is clearly trying to harm or kill them, protected status or not.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[drakenix]

Monkey see, Monkey STEW !

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[AngryJim]

Agreed. The less evolving the monkeys do, the better.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[MadnessASAP]

Hey, humans evolved from monekeys and we turned out.....alright? Hmm maybe not, I think I see your point.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[arashi no garou]

Nah, Peter Gabriel had a better idea. Anyone got a battery and some wire clips?

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[dna_(c)(tm)(r)]

You could always claim the monkey was shot resisting arrest. If they're so far antropomorphized that they're making rude gestures, it's probably time to demonstrate the finer points of law to them.

You mean you would shoot a human that makes rude gestures to you? Or send your lawyer to them?

Hm, come to think of it, must be possible to just send them a cease and desist letter invoking some copyright infringement. "Monkey see, monkey do, monkey sue"

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[Vexar]

The article is inconsistent on monkey violence. They mention throwing rocks and leaving poison out. I would say that pegging a monkey square on their noggin with a well-chucked shard of flint constitutes harm, and poison, well, it's not known for being gentle.

I have decided not to travel to countries where monkeys roam free. Furthermore, if I ever meet someone who actually considers monkeys to be gods, I'm going to have a nice, well-rounded discussion on SURVIVAL. The last thing we need is ol' King Louie discovering the secret of the man-flower from Mowgli. When the monkeys set the village ablaze, then, I think the villagers will either start monkey slaughtering, and welcome the threat of a roof over their heads, bars or otherwise.

Does this village in Kenya constitute "rural sprawl?"

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[Colin Smith]

It's a criminal offense to harm them. Dogs don't understand the law.

Bring in a predator.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[mpe]

The villagers have tried to get rid of the monkeys without harming them, and it doesn't work- it has driven them to famine relief. Should they kill monkeys from now on,

The most sensible thing would probably be to kill and eat the monkeys. This not only stops the monkeys interfering with their agriculture it also helps stop the villagers starving.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[Sponge Bath]

I think Vick has a few pit bulls to spare.

Pit bull monkey fights! That would be a spectacle.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[sacrilicious]

It's a criminal offense to harm them.

There must be sane limits on this. For example, it's a crime for me to shoot someone, but it's not a crime for me to shoot someone who's broken into my home and is threatening the lives of my family. And this analogy is not far-fetched; these monkeys are causing the villagers to face the prospect of starvation... to death.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[HangingChad]

It's a criminal offense to harm them.

When it's a crime to hunt monkeys, then only criminals will have fried monkey for dinner.

Eat the evidence.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[ChrisMaple]

Kill the damn monkeys and eat them.

Bad plan. Diseases are most easily spread through the body fluids of similar species. Eating monkeys is probably what brought us AIDS, unless you believe it came from monkey f**kers.

Kill the damn monkeys, mount their heads on pikes, burn the bodies.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[th1nk]

Dogs don't understand the law. Bring in a predator.

I don't think it gets cold enough there to freeze the gorillas come wintertime.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[Anonymous Coward]

Then you're obviously talking about yourself, right? So I implore you as an example for all and make the first move. Hmmmm? It's not that easy is it? Leave my brothers and sisters alone if you know what's good for ya.....oops, I guess you don't. It figures becuase YOU'RE decended from Apes! Apes have no right dealing in the affairs of Monkey Business.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[magarity]

You mean you would shoot a human that makes rude gestures to you?
 
I'd put shooting high on the list of options for a human that broke into my house, sexually harrassed my woman, and stole my food. If you'd read the article you'd see the monkeys were actually grabbing the women's breasts AND making additional lewd gestures.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[smashin234]

The only close relative of HIV is the simian virus found in the common chimpanzee.

Today, the best theory on how HIV spread from humans to chimps IMHO is the fault of the Winstar Institute in Philadelphia which created polio vaccines in the middle of Africa. They deny that any chimps were used, as the usual method involved harvesting Monkey kidneys, however, out of the rest of the theories, this seems to be the best case. They were probably experimenting with different procedures and inadvertantly released this on the world.

I will add a disclaimer to this: it is not fact that this is where HIV came from, this is simply a theory.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[jbengt]

http://www.enviro.co.za/ethology/ People encroach on the monkey's habitat and encounter the cute vervets.
The vervet monkeys have a natural fear of man.
People feed the monkeys.
The vervets get brave.
The vervets become a nuisance
The people start shooting and killing monkeys
The vervet population drops drastically, threatening plants that depend on them for seed dispersal, and animals that depend on the plants.
The vervet monkeys are protected by the government
The monkeys get brave and become a nuisance

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[magarity]

Dogs don't understand the law. Bring in a predator.
 
RTFA - The monkeys killed the dogs already.
 
Now a real Predator, that would be another story, but he'd proceed to kill all the village men after he was done with the monkeys, so that's probably out.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[gb506]

After all, how did they learn to make rude human sexual gestures in the first place?

Perhaps the monkeys have to share one TV and a single tape of the 2006 B.E.T. Hip-Hop awards? How else can you explain the dissing of the bitches and hos, the pointing at the genitals, etc...

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[ThurstonMoore]

Impale a few monkeys near the crops, problem solved.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[An ominous Cow art]

Hey, *my* ass government is for the people, by the people!

(No, I don't know what that means; I just thought it sounded funny)

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[Anonymous Coward]

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people - but monkeys do too (if they've got a gun)!"

- Eddie Izzard

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[Strilanc]

The monkeys sound intelligent. Kill one and put its head on a pike medieval style to scare the rest away.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[eli pabst]

The "vaccine origin" theory has pretty much been shown to be impossible. There were too many HIV strains already around at that time for it to have originated at the Winstar trials in Congo. Winstar supposedly also went back and found some of the original monkey cells that the vaccine was grown in and upon testing showed that they did not contain any HIV and that they were actually Macaque cells which can't be infected by HIV. Plus add in that HIV1 and HIV2 are believed to be derived from different SIV strains which infect different primates, which further makes that impossible.

http://www.avert.org/origins.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiv#Origin_and_discov ery
http://guava.physics.uiuc.edu/~nigel/courses/598BI O/498BIOonline-essays/hw3/files/HW3-Villa.pdf

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[pnewhook]

I'd put shooting high on the list of options for a human that broke into my house, sexually harrassed my woman, and stole my food. If you'd read the article you'd see the monkeys were actually grabbing the women's breasts AND making additional lewd gestures.

If you did, then you'd probably go to jail.

You are only allowed to do a proportionate response to the threat. You cannot respond with deadly force if the attacker is just doing a simple assault and insults that are clearly non life-threatening.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[Anonymous Coward]

They should just execute a few monkeys, cut off their heads, and place them on stakes outside the village as a warning.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[derjames]

"Best bet on where they learned to make sexual gestures? Watching the people in the village. Lesson learned? Never flip off a monkey :)" ...monkeys practising voyeurism....

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[sowth]

Just put a bomb in the predator. When it finishes its job or threatens a villager, send the signal and you don't have a problem.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[piojo]

If you'd read the article you'd see the monkeys were actually grabbing the women's breasts AND making additional lewd gestures.
  Actually, I read that as "the [female] monkeys were grabbing their [own] breasts." I find it implausible that a monkey would grab a human's breasts. They are too short to do it without climbing up the human, and that would open them to being struck.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[Yvan256]

Indeed, what a moron. The answer is, obviously, 4.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[Hijacked Public]

That depends entirely on where you are. In the US laws that coverdefenses relating to culpability vary by state.

Here in Indiana and in most other forward thinking states there is no requirement that a person be in fear of his life before employing deadly force when faced with a threat inside his own home.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[normuser]

Hey, *my* ass government is for the people, by the people!

I think GP was going for "corrupt-ass governments" not "corrupt ass-governments".

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[Darundal]

Not in Texas. In Texas, if someone/thing decides to trespass on your property, and they are in any way a threat, you have the legal right to shoot them.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[rlp]

It's a criminal offense to harm them.

Paintball guns.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[KDR_11k]

Naw, just wait until it rains and then call arnie.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[magarity]

If you did, then you'd probably go to jail. You are only allowed to do a proportionate response to the threat
 
Where do you live? Here in the USA where I am, and the last three states within which I've lived, intruders in the home conducting theft and assault most certainly may be countered with deadly force.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[Lord Apathy]

Why not? Worked for the coons that where in my trash.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[DigiShaman]

Ya know, THAT would be interesting to see.

I don't wish anyone any harm, but to see another species wielding a firearm (and to load ammo) would be an astounding display of intelligence.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[jonadab]

> It's a criminal offense to harm them.

So arm the women with pepper spray, then. (Yes, I know a subsistance-level village can't afford that, but now that the story has achieved international press, so it would be a relatively simple thing to get a few donations.) Or other non-lethal weapons. (The bolus is pretty low-tech and fairly effective...) Or send a small number of big scary men with them as "enforcers". Or a couple of dogs. Or skunks, or badgers, or whatever. Or design more clever traps. Or a more defensible perimeter.

Ultimately, the monkeys don't have what it takes to maintain a protracted battle of wits with a group of determined humans.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[kalirion]

It's a criminal offense to harm them. If it is a crime to try to survive, the monkeys have already won, and the villagers will starve to death.

Seriously though. Last time I checked, fighting for survival never stopped being a right of every living thing on the planet. Even a court will have to recognize this.

You seem to misunderstand the difference between laws stemming from common sense and laws stemming from religion.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[pnewhook]

People usually think they have a lot more rights than they actually do when it comes to gun defence.

The majority of states (except the sporadic insane one, like Florida) allow the use of deadly force only when it meets the requirements of justifiable homicide, including self-defence or, in some cases, defence of another. In most cases though, the requirement is that the defendant had no alternative method of self-defence except to kill the attacker.

Use of deadly force is often subject to examination by the courts. However given that the average education level of an american juror is about grade 8, it's likely that the defendant would get off completely.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[pnewhook]

Not in Texas. In Texas, if someone/thing decides to trespass on your property, and they are in any way a threat, you have the legal right to shoot them.

No you do not. This is a mistaken belief among many pro gun people.

Texas has no 'Castle Doctrine' law, although some people are trying to get one passed. Texas currely has a 'duty to retreat' provision for use of deadly force in self-defece, which means someone may not use deadly force if a reasonable person in the same situation would have retreated. You can only use deadly force if you feel your life is in danger and there is no altenative.

Re:Not that hard of a problem to solve

[pnewhook]

Here in Indiana and in most other forward thinking states there is no requirement that a person be in fear of his life before employing deadly force when faced with a threat inside his own home.

Again, most gun nuts think they have far more rights than they actually do have.

Here is the law for Indiana:

... a person: (1) is justified in using deadly force; and (2) does not have a duty to retreat; if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony...

so why exactly do you think that there are no requirements before you kill someone on your own property?

Those aren't monkeys...

[Anonymous Coward]

they're phi sigma kappa pledges

Re:Those aren't monkeys...

[gujo-odori]

They're just lucky it's not 300 Slashdotters...

Re:Those aren't monkeys...

[Anonymous Coward]

they're phi sigma kappa pledges

No, It's Tappa Kegga Bru. Or I Phelta Thi.

Re:Those aren't monkeys...

[Briareos]

They're just lucky it's not 300 Slashdotters...

This is madness!

No! This is Slashdot!!1!eleven

New behavior? Mimicing humans is well observed.

[Shivani1141]

It's Illegal to kill a pest animal now? Okay, monkeys are intelligent. alright, they're somewhat intelligent. but they're protected by the gov't why? you can sure bet If it was humans undertaking this same behavior the men would have been right up in that situation laying down the law, I don't see why they just don't deal with it. Sounds like a sympathy beg to me. As for the behavior quirks, Is that really significant? We learned from numerous instances of interaction with monkeys in the past that they easily mimic and correctly apply our methods and tools after sufficient observation. Unless there is proof of the contrary, I'm going to step forward and say that they're just mimicking behavior that they have previously observed humans using.

Re:New behavior? Mimicing humans is well observed.

[badran]

They must have seen a raid of some kind, and saw that it was profitable for the raiders. So why not try that....

Re:New behavior? Mimicing humans is well observed.

[Anonymous Coward]

becouse those monkeys are on the verge of extinction while humans are not.

Re:New behavior? Mimicing humans is well observed.

[OrangeTide]

"Despite their new problems with the monkeys, it is a criminal offence[sic] to harm or kill any of them, so the besieged villagers must figure out a way to outwit the monkeys instead."

Given the artificial constraint that the women can't just carry a small caliber rifle with them, and the government is not willing to relocate the animals I only see one solution. Relocate the humans. If the monkeys cannot coexist peacefully with the local human population, then one or the other must go. In most cases the humans win, but under artificial constraints that is not always the case.

If little animal started "sexually harassing" me with rude gestures, I would find it funny. I think it is ignorant to be offended by what an animal does, because it is an ignorant creature with out a fine understanding of human society and culture. Obviously the real problem is the stealing of food, physical harassment of people, and invasion of people's homes. (won't be so funny when a monkey passes a disease along to an infant or attacks one in a home)

I can only hope that the laws are flexible enough that if a monkey physically assaults someone that they have a right to defend themselves. It seems like a small cudgel or even a sap would be a practical solution for the women to carry. And if the government is worried about fabricated stories of monkey attacks to justify unprovoked culling, just make the flexibility of the law only apply to the female population.

A higher tech solution would be pepper spray or even garden hose, but I suspect neither are practical for a small agrarian village.

Here in the US, most of our pest animals are also over populated. Nobody bats an eye if you kill mice, rabbits, raccoons, wild pigs or deer in the parts of the US where they are serious problems to the agriculture industry and they are often threats to public health. Poisoning, kill-traps and shooting is very common. (except for mice, we don't shoot mice)

Re:New behavior? Mimicing humans is well observed.

[kripkenstein]

We learned from numerous instances of interaction with monkeys in the past that they easily mimic and correctly apply our methods and tools after sufficient observation. Unless there is proof of the contrary, I'm going to step forward and say that they're just mimicking behavior that they have previously observed humans using.

Mimicking human behavior is only one explanation, and not even the most likely one. Another plausible option is that one or two 'perverted' monkeys acted like, well, perverts, and this happened to occur around human women. This behavior caused distress to the women in the area. The women left, and the monkeys took what they wanted. Since this strategy succeeded, it spread to other monkeys by cultural transmission.

you can sure bet If it was humans undertaking this same behavior the men would have been right up in that situation laying down the law

Sure, but so what? Monkeys aren't humans. If a tiger kills his handler at the zoo we don't prosecute it for murder (or even manslaughter). If a dog does his business on the sidewalk we don't prosecute it for an indecent act.

More to the point, if pandas start to steal food from humans (yes, I know they wouldn't, it is just an example), we wouldn't wipe them out as a 'pest'. You have to take into account the fact that pandas are critically endangered. That said, I believe vervet monkeys are far less endangered than pandas, so it might make sense to allow some reasonable action against them.

Re:New behavior? Mimicing humans is well observed.

[timmarhy]

Would you leave your home because monkeys were attacking your wife?

right, didn't think so.

Re:New behavior? Mimicing humans is well observed.

[OrangeTide]

if I could not, due to artificial constraints, make them go away then what choice do I have?

Allow my wife to be attacked? right, didn't think so.

Re:New behavior? Mimicing humans is well observed.

[Anonymous Coward]

(except for mice, we don't shoot mice)

Mickey says "Thank you!"

Re:New behavior? Mimicing humans is well observed.

[tsa]

It's illegal to kill pest animals here in the Netherlands too. If an animal is on the red list, you're not allowed to kill it. In Africa it's no different.

Re:New behavior? Mimicing humans is well observed.

[jbengt]

They haven't really been sexually harrasing the women, TFA deosn't quie say that they have. Here's the quote from TFA ' "We are afraid that they will sexually harass us," said Njeri.' Another case of the /. headline not quite matching the article.
Here's an article from which the posted article appears to have copied:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6959209.stm/
And here's a web site with more info on vervets:
http://www.enviro.co.za/ethology/nuisance_value_of _the_vervet_mon.htm
http://www.enviro.co.za/ethology/
So, you say the monkey nuisance is cuased by the government's ban on killing vervets.
But actually, the cause of the ban is that the people have been killing too many vervets,
the monkeys have been a nuisance all along.
And the vervets are not useless, they are important to the survival of many plants in the environment through their dispersal of the seeds.

Re:New behavior? Mimicing humans is well observed.

[freeweed]

I think it is ignorant to be offended by what an animal does

Personally, I think it is ignorant to be offended by what a human does, too.

Re:New behavior? Mimicing humans is well observed.

[g-san]

> Since this strategy succeeded, it spread to other monkeys by cultural transmission.

Dude, were talking about a race of creatures that can write Shakespeare, these guys send typewritten letters.

Re:New behavior? Mimicing humans is well observed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Let some negroes starve because there's enough of them?

Re:New behavior? Mimicing humans is well observed.

[OrangeTide]

You tell yourself that when I park my motorcycle on your lawn.

Re:New behavior? Mimicing humans is well observed.

[pave_m]

More to the point, if pandas start to steal food from humans (yes, I know they wouldn't, it is just an example), we wouldn't wipe them out as a 'pest'. You have to take into account the fact that pandas are critically endangered. That said, I believe vervet monkeys are far less endangered than pandas, so it might make sense to allow some reasonable action against them.

Bad example. A panda would never sexually harass these women, 'cause that would make it a saaaad panda.

They must not be trying very hard.

[psychicsword]

None of the attempts to discourage the monkeys has so far worked. How about kicking them(Yes I did RTFA)

From the Article

"Despite their new problems with the monkeys, it is a criminal offence to harm or kill any of them, so the besieged villagers must figure out a way to outwit the monkeys instead." What I want to know is what the punishment is for killing some and who is going to miss a few of the "approximately 300 marauding monkeys"?

Re:They must not be trying very hard.

[sumdumass]

Why not place food in places for them away from the women, let them get hooked on that and then after it looks like they might have forgotten how to hump for food, cut the food off and let them starve. Eventually, nature will take over and there will be enough monkeys to live off the food available.

And maybe you could by the food from china and kill them that way. At least then you could blame it on the Chinese and hope you don't get punished for it.

Subscribe the monkeys to Slashdot

[Antique Geekmeister]

That way, they'll only watch porn all night and never actually lay a hand on anything female.

Re:Subscribe the monkeys to Slashdot

[psychicsword]

I take offense to that just because I watch porn all night and never actually laid a hand on anything female doesn't mean I read slashdot... Oh wait

Re:Subscribe the monkeys to Slashdot

[Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki]

What if they pick up programming?

Re:Subscribe the monkeys to Slashdot

[VJ42]

Considering some of the programmers I've met, I'd say they already have...

I'm only joking, some of my best friends are code monkeys
;-)

Re:Subscribe the monkeys to Slashdot

[Antique Geekmeister]

Creatures that fling feces at each other? Who could tell the difference between them and the average Perl programmer?

Re:Subscribe the monkeys to Slashdot

[TimeTraveler1884]

slwow230D sISF)2f30is dfaf239fjSDF)(

2302 #)wfj)DS wsfgn f23 F( SDF 23

I'# 3 EFD qbbwef wlw Yu D)f2jSDF SFDo FSDF

I'm 0 mkd89eey 230sd Sls d U insDFS(23f C2d

I'm a mdskey rsDing sll23d you inse@sit32 cl3d

I'm a monkey reading Slashdot you insensitive clod!

Re:Subscribe the monkeys to Slashdot

[Antique Geekmeister]

Where's Terry Pratchett's "Librarian" when you need him?

Re:Subscribe the monkeys to Slashdot

[Virak]

The monkey can probably write more readable code.

Re:Subscribe the monkeys to Slashdot

[PlasticArmyMan]

YOU try calling him a monkey then.

Losing battle

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, if we're going to tilt the playing field in their favor by preventing the people from harming the monkeys (it's a criminal offense, apparently), then it's a losing battle.

You need to be able to whip out a shotgun and use it. That would discourage them.

Damn monkeys.

Re:Losing battle

[Anonymous Coward]

Just for fun let's go over some methods that don't involve killing them.

- Trap them
- Feed them lots of alcohol, making them stupid and useless
- Enslave them to do your farming (chains, whips, the whole deal)
- Capture, then drop them in the middle of the jungle 1000 miles away or on an island (probably the most humane)
- Pit the monkeys against each other somehow, leaving no blood on your hands
- Blind them
- Build an unclimbable wall (or dig a deep ditch) to keep the invading hordes out
- Put something in a separate food supply that will upset their stomachs greatly
- Force half of them to wear human's clothes (I have no idea what this will do, maybe something interesting)
- Make them wear funny hats, then put them on TV or in movies
- Run away, run away! (Lamest solution)

Re:Losing battle

[Anonymous Coward]

- Surround the farms with dense thorny plants
- Shoot them with salt pellets

Re:Losing battle

[ozmanjusri]

Give them hundreds of typewriters.

Re:Losing battle

[iPaige]

"- Force half of them to wear human's clothes (I have no idea what this will do, maybe something interesting)" ..Hahahahah

Re:Losing battle

[kidcharles]

That list is awesome. Are you an imagineer in real life?

Re:Losing battle

[derjames]

Send them to Guantanamo... You will see that they will learn the lesson...

It all began when the monkeys got cable tv...

[Telephone Sanitizer]

They've been watching BET.

Re:It all began when the monkeys got cable tv...

[Telephone Sanitizer]

Modded Flamebait?!

That wasn't just a joke, it was culturally sensitive humor, pointing out the misogynistic tendencies of a popular television channel.

Perhaps I was too subtle for you: BET teaches that women are objects to be exploited for sex or random abuse. Monkeys, watching BET would learn and mimic that behavior. So might human kids.

See? That wasn't flame bait at all.

Still don't get it? Turn on BET and watch for a few minutes at any time up until 4am when it switches to religious programming.

Re:It all began when the monkeys got cable tv...

[Anonymous Coward]

You expect the mods to be worth a damn? You must be new here

Re:It all began when the monkeys got cable tv...

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe the moderator didn't know about how BET is misogynist... I didn't before I read your reply to your own comment. I thought what you were trying to say was, "black people are more poorly-behaved than monkeys."

Your comment makes more sense to me know, so thanks for explaining.

Re:It all began when the monkeys got cable tv...

[mqduck]

Perhaps I was too subtle for you I think you were too subtle for yourself. You seemed to miss your whole "boy, these African monkeys remind me a lot of African Americans" insight.

Re:It all began when the monkeys got cable tv...

[Kreigaffe]

Nah, they're in no way similar.

The monkeys are abusing women in order to feed themselves. The people are abusing women in order to .... uhm.... well shit everyone else is doing it, obviously they like it, right?

Re:It all began when the monkeys got cable tv...

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right. It's the funniest joke ever. Thanks for explaining it, because it wasn't funny until you did.

Re:It all began when the monkeys got cable tv...

[Telephone Sanitizer]

> Maybe the moderator didn't know about how BET is misogynist... ...

>> Thanks for explaining it, because it wasn't funny until you did.

I apologize. I assumed that it was common knowledge.

I truly did not intend to make a racial slur.

Re:It all began when the monkeys got cable tv...

[AmberBlackCat]

I think it is worth noting, BET used to have a few high-quality shows when it was actually Black-owned, such as their nightly news program and the Tavis Smiley show. They got rid of all that when they sold out to Viacom. At that point, the only things Black about them were their name and some of the faces they hire to spew their image of Black people. Since a lot of the posts here are being used to imply that Black people are monkeys, I think it's important to note that BET's current state shouldn't be blamed on us, as none of us really have any control over that channel. So you'll have to settle for the rest of the racist lies that are harder to disprove. And just in case you get to see this before Slashdot mods me down, fuck you.

Re:It all began when the monkeys got cable tv...

[mink]

"Tavis Smiley show"

He was on BET? I didn't know that. I wonder if his show being cut coinsides with him doing a radio version that my local NPR station has. He used to be nightly, then he left and came back as a friday only event, the M-T show is now called news and notes and on Friday we get "The Tavis Smiley Show".

Someone just needs to start...

[Anonymous Coward]

Spank those goddamn monkeys already, people!

Youtube footage of the monkeys

[Spy der Mann]

Someone managed to record the monkeys and upload the footage. Here's the url: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj25gRwsZmE

Re:Youtube footage of the monkeys

[deftcoder]

Wow... long time since I heard that one.

Mods, +Funny?

Re:Youtube footage of the monkeys

[Anonymous Coward]

In other news, one of the monkeys has been ostracized from the group, and is showing some disturbing signs :

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xJ3y_QopcuQ

Re:Youtube footage of the monkeys

[Anonymous Coward]

apparently the mods lost their sense of humor tonight. :-/

Re:Youtube footage of the monkeys

[Anonymous Coward]

Alternative food source documented at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEEmUdkTyJ0

Re:Youtube footage of the monkeys

[UbuntuDupe]

Yeah, and now some assholes are training them to use bionic arms for when they attack humans!

Who could be behind all this?

when arnt they going hungry?

[Pvt. Cthulhu]

eat the monkeys. problem solved.

Re:when arnt they going hungry?

[Anonymous Coward]

eat the monkeys. problem solved.

No, no, no!

You must shock the monkey.

Re:when arnt they going hungry?

[Antique Geekmeister]

People have been eating bush meat since our species evolved with incisors and canines. It's *not* eating bush meat that's a bit odd, over the evolutionary time scale. And it's hardly just chimps: it's anything you can find and kill to eat in the bush. It's a real problem for endangered species: when human population growth shrinks their habitates and numbers, and then those hungry humans hunt them to feed starving children because the fertilizer prices went up or the civil war has destroyed jobs and burned crops, it's very hard to tell people not to feed their children.

Re:when arnt they going hungry?

[Apuleius]

Meat and "bush meat" are two different things. It's one thing to eat vegetarian animals. You have to be lacking other options to eat a carnivore. And if you eat a carnivorous primate, that's potential for serious trouble. People in Africa have eaten chimps since time immemorial. Generally, when nothing better was available, because eating them is a Bad Idea.

Re:when arnt they going hungry?

[timmarhy]

"The result was AIDS."

You mean HIV, AIDS is a progression of the symptoms. And no, HIV is not passed ingestion. shows how much you know.

Re:when arnt they going hungry?

[Antique Geekmeister]

My goodness, you are mixing up things. Chimps are not carnivores. They're omnivores. And lots of people will eat omnivores: bears and possums come to mind from US hunting, and I've eaten both. There's a real infection problemm with carnivorous primates, I admit, but it's probably less of a factor than the difficulty hunting them.

I'm afraid you're considering the infection problem to be a Bad Idea with capital letters. It's a significant risk, with small letters. Issues like AIDS are relatively new: hunger and poverty are old and familiar risks.

Re:when arnt they going hungry?

[SL Baur]

Eating chimps is a bad idea because they are genetically similar enough to humans that all of the problems of cannibalism arise.

Re:when arnt they going hungry?

[TapeCutter]

"Generally, when nothing better was available, because eating them is a Bad Idea."

The reason it was considered a "BAD idea" by tribes who came into contact with other apes is that tribes saw the apes as just another sub-human tribe. Nothing special since all other tribes were also considered either "sub" or "super" human. It's the same behaviour that gives rise to what we now call "racisim", "chauvanisim" or "child abuse" depending on the target. It's also the reason that the members of one's own religion are always "special", even Atheists think they have some special insight. It human behaviour, or more precisely: The Monkeysphere.

Not sure about Africa but in SE Asia "canabilisim" is aimed at both human & ape and is still practised in parts of Papua as a kind of judicial system that is based on the good/bad spirit model, not that different to the "civilized world's" capital punishment when you think about it except that the "cannibal" has an extra parasite or two to deal with ( CJD is one that springs to mind ). I'm pretty sure when food is scarce tribal societies are seeing "evil spirits" everywhere, IMHO: "Drought is to Evil spririts" as "Oil is to Terrorists".

BTW: Here in Australia "bush meat" is anything that is not certified by the health dept. You can pick up just as many nasty parasites from eating a wild pig as you can from eating a wild dog, getting close to a Water Buffallo with TB is not a good idea. Eating wild dogs liver will give you vitimain A poisining, an unpleasant condition where the victim's skin starts peeling off. Both Scott's & Mawson's Antartic expeditions suffered when they ate the livers of their sled dogs, I'm guessing a "wild human" would rather starve than eat the dogs liver.

Re:when arnt they going hungry?

[Tsagadai]

There are problems with cannibalism? Wow, someone should have told me years ago.

Re:when arnt they going hungry?

[Kjellander]

And no, HIV is not passed ingestion. shows how much you know.

Actually, the most likely HIV patient zero was probably a hunter who got infected by SIV while cutting up chimps. So indirectly, eating bush meat started the AIDS pandemic.

Re:when arnt they going hungry?

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you know that patient 0 didn't get HIV from fucking the monkey? Rural inhabitants have ben known to do that sort of thing from time to time. My cousin caught an Iraqi farmer banging a goat while he was on patrol one night.

Re:when arnt they going hungry?

[vocaro]

eat the monkeys. problem solved.

RTFA: "Despite their new problems with the monkeys, it is a criminal offence to harm or kill any of them, so the besieged villagers must figure out a way to outwit the monkeys instead."

Re:when arnt they going hungry?

[kainino]

"The result was AIDS."

You mean HIV, AIDS is a progression of the symptoms. And no, HIV is not passed ingestion. shows how much you know.

"Although a variety of theories exist explaining the transfer of HIV to humans, no single hypothesis is unanimously accepted, and the topic remains controversial. The most widely accepted theory is so called 'Hunter' Theory according to which transference from simian to human most likely occurred when a human was bitten by a primate or was cut while butchering one, and the human became infected." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV

It seems to be possible to get HIV (although, HIV is human immunodeficiency virus), if you are bitten are get cut. Also, I think that it is possible to get it if you get blood in your eye.
It still seems unlikely, however, because monkeys generally get SIV (simian immunodeficiency virus) rather than HIV.

Re:when arnt they going hungry?

[mink]

"Also, I think that it is possible to get it (HIV) if you get blood in your eye."

I thought that was just how you get Rage.

taste aversion

[wizardforce]

in all srriousness what could be done is trying taste aversion [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste_aversion] basically this was used on wild animals to prevent the killing of sheep. what they did was add a lithium salt to a set of dead sheep, the animals would eat the meat, lithium and all and it caused nausea and reduced their activity. these affects were associated with the sheep meat and after a while the animals stopped attacking sheep as a food source. now all of these behaviors with these particular primates stem from their attempt to acquire food so putting a stop to that motivation stops the problem entirely. the last reason this could be an option is that the predators survive the encounter, taste aversion shouldn't cause long term harm like a few other options [hunting for one]

Re:taste aversion

[Anonymous Coward]

Hunting only causes short term harm. About a split second, actually.

Re:taste aversion

[timmarhy]

monkeys > sheep. they already tried baits and the monkeys have figured out how to tell if something was baited. they (the women in the field) tried wearing mens clothing to scare them to but the monkeys figured that out as well. Now the monkeys are grabbing the women breasts and making gestures mimicing sexual thrusting.

this is all because, morons from other countries have actually covinced these poor countries that they shouldn't kill animals like monkeys, to satisfy thier own pathetic middle class guilt.

I hope the villagers buy themselves some ak's and blow those monkeys a few new holes.

Re:taste aversion

[Anonymous Coward]

that's right kill anything that stands in your way. that will solve everything... we're wiping out species at a rate that really hasn't ever been seen on Earth... ever. there probably is a time when lethal force is the only option but before we go rambo on them can we not try something just as effective that doesn't involve killing them first? just a thought

Re:taste aversion

[kennygraham]

I hate killing as much as the next guy, but if 300 humans were throwing rocks at my wife and stealing my food to the point where I might not be able to feed my children that night, after a while I'd start shooting the humans. I sure as hell wouldn't put up with it from a monkey.

Re:taste aversion

[LBt1st]

Amen!

Re:taste aversion

[timmarhy]

"that's right kill anything that stands in your way."

We aren't talking about the monkeys standing in the way of me having a 2nd car, or having a new play station. We are talking about them preventing some of the poorest people in the world getting enough food just to survive. So yes, fuck the stupid monkeys.

"can we not try something just as effective that doesn't involve killing them first"

What are you, dense? they have already tried nasty tasting baits, dressing up to scare them and hitting them with sticks. I'd say that's a fucking good effort for people facing starvation because of the monkeys.

Re:taste aversion

[Eivind]

If the article is rigth, then the monkeys are threathening the food-supply of the villagers. This ain't a "minor" problem. Taking care of the environment is important, but that doesn't mean self-defence ain't allowed.

Norway, for example, has in general very strict hunting-regulations, mosts predators are completely legally protected. That does, however, not mean that a farmer isn't allowed to defend his animals. By lethal force if nessecary. The moment a bear starts attacking your dog, cow or sheep, you're in your perfect rigth to shoot it dead.

Non-lethal is better offcourse, but in any case the monkeys need to learn that human food-supply and humans themselves are not to be messed with. Philosophical dicussion is unlikely to convince them, they need to have negative experiences. A problem is that the monkeys are large enough to be potentially dangerous, most non-lethal defence-systems would be risky for the women to employ. An electric cattle-prod for example would certainly teach the monkeys a lesson, but you need to be very close, close enough that you won't get away if the monkey goes for an all-out attack. Quite possibly, as from the description it doesn't appear the monkeys have much fear.

Re:taste aversion

[UbuntuDupe]

Apparently, the monkeys are too smart for that trick. From the article:

"Unfortunately, the monkeys have even been killing the residents' livestock and dogs, evading traps and avoiding poisoned food."

Re:taste aversion

[mpe]

this is all because, morons from other countries have actually covinced these poor countries that they shouldn't kill animals like monkeys, to satisfy thier own pathetic middle class guilt.

IIRC it's kill or hurt

I hope the villagers buy themselves some ak's and blow those monkeys a few new holes.


Maybe shotguns would be better weapons.

Re:taste aversion

[sacrilicious]

I completely agree with your larger point about lethal force, wanted to ask about this minor point:

A problem is that the monkeys are large enough to be potentially dangerous

According to Wikipedia, this type of monkey maxes out at 40cm, or a bit over a foot. Is this considered a dangerous size? I'm sure these monkeys could bite, but that's not really a product of their size so much as the fact that they have teeth...

Re:taste aversion

[jbengt]

The ban is not to protect some individual monkey from being harmed, it's to prevent the extinction of species.
And, they had been killing the monkeys. They've killed so many that they now have protected them to prevent the vervets, and the plants that depend on their seed dispersal, from going extinct.

Re:taste aversion

[vocaro]

FTFA: "Despite their new problems with the monkeys, it is a criminal offence to harm or kill any of them, so the besieged villagers must figure out a way to outwit the monkeys instead."

Re:taste aversion

[vocaro]

So yes, fuck the stupid monkeys.

FTFA: "Despite their new problems with the monkeys, it is a criminal offence to harm or kill any of them, so the besieged villagers must figure out a way to outwit the monkeys instead."

Re:taste aversion

[kennygraham]

Yeah, and also FTFA, they've tried many times, they're still getting attacked, and they're still going hungry.

Re:taste aversion

[Eivind]

It depends what you mean by "dangerous". Dangerous as in you'd be likely to lose a one-on-one figth with one of these monkeys and die, no.

Dangerous as in being attacked by a *group* of these monkeys may well get you severly scratched and bitten, yes. And remember, these are rural regions, you don't know if there's a friendly doctor over the street to patch you up.

The question is, how much risk to self is it reasonable to expect people to accept in order to *avoid* killing or potentially seriously injurying one or more animals that are a) harming your food-supply and b) being physically threathening to the point where people are scared of tending their own fields.

There's also the question about how much resources are available. These are poor farmers. Monkeys are quick. You *don't* want them to learn that humans are harmless, as would likely be the case if you tried something ineffective, like throwing stuff at them. (you'd never hit, other than by pure luck)

reverse the gender roles

[Anonymous Coward]

The monkeys fear men and harass women. Therefore, have the men work the fields, and send the women out to do whatever the men are doing now.

Re:reverse the gender roles

[Clever7Devil]

But the mens' favorite shows are on during peak farming hours.

Re:reverse the gender roles

[twistedcubic]

funniest post ever...

Re:reverse the gender roles

[SL Baur]

end the women out to do whatever the men are doing now. Fighting wars with their neighbors and killing people. That part of the world is not very civilized by any standard. It's worse next door in the Congo.

Look at it positively. Being productive is women's work there. Killing people is a job for a man.

Forcibly switching gender roles is as dangerous as nation building and probably as productive. Look at the peaceful role model of democracy that the US has just created in Iraq after years of tyranny. I lost my first marriage due to cultural differences in male/female roles and it's just not something you can change lightly and expect it to work.

Re:reverse the gender roles

[gaspyy]

RTFA, they've tried that, but the monkey can spot the differences even when women are wearing mens' clothes and basically just laugh at them.

Re:reverse the gender roles

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm Ugandan you insensitive clod!

Re:reverse the gender roles

[Junior J. Junior III]

But the women won't fit into the monkey suits that the men have been getting dressed up in.

Re:reverse the gender roles

[LiquidFire_HK]

The parent wasn't suggesting switching clothes, he was suggesting switching the people and what they do.

Re:reverse the gender roles

[g-san]

Omitted from the article is the fact that the men just sit on the porches drinking beer, laughing their asses off at their wives, and betting on how far mimo!o can make it before the basket of potatoes falls off her head.

So, shoot 'em.

[jcr]

What's the problem? Are there a bunch of tree-huggers in kenya to interfere?

-jcr

Re:So, shoot 'em.

[Apuleius]

Ammo's expensive when you live in East Bumfuck, Kenya and have to grow your own food.

Re:So, shoot 'em.

[sumdumass]

Take a stick and sharpen it. Then plunge it into the monkey. No ammo needed.

Actually, you probably won't even need to kill them. Maybe a cattle prod or something and shock them a few times. You could take a stick and put a bunch of dull needles on them and hit the monkeys a few times. Animals are generally good at not doing things that cause pain. After a while they would just associated the women with pain and stay clear.

Re:So, shoot 'em.

[psychrono]

RTFA and it says:

Despite their new problems with the monkeys, it is a criminal offence to harm or kill any of them, so the besieged villagers must figure out a way to outwit the monkeys instead. So no, shooting or adding lithium/other chemicals to samples of crops to deter the monkeys (as another poster has suggested) is not a viable solution unless it becomes an extreme situation where criminal charges will not be applied to those that harm the monkeys in any fashion.
The only thing I can think of is to create shelters that the monkeys cannot access since they appear to be stealing the crops from within the houses as well as in the fields.

Re:So, shoot 'em.

[jbengt]

IO don't know why, but I'm amazed at the lack of thoughtfulness found in shlashdot comments on subjects like this.
The vervets are a big nuisance, but they haven't really been sexually harrassing the women, the quote is from aa woman that's "afraid they'l start sexually harrassing us."
It's not like the ban has caused the vervets to become a nuisance.
People have a tendency to treat human-looking monkeys with curiousity, and feed the cute little animals. (especially tourists)
The monkeys start to lose their natural fear of humans, and become more of a nuisance. So people that have already taken over a lot of the monkeys' habitat start killing them in enough numbers to endager the species (not just some individual monkey, the whole species and all it's impact on the rest of the environment) That's when the governments step in and put a ban on further killing. There are ways to survive and protect your crops that don't involve making other species go extinct.

Re:So, shoot 'em.

[iminplaya]

A cattle prod would require that you approach the animal, possibly dangerous. Tasers are the answer

After a while they would just associated the women with pain and stay clear.

I don't know where to begin with that one. Are you suggesting...matrimony?

Re:So, shoot 'em.

[sumdumass]

Matrimony? Well, to here it from some, it might be the answer.

A Taser might be a better solution. Usually they have wire coming from the electrodes though and if there are more then one, I think it could cause some problems like tripping hazards and one or two shots when there are 4 or more monkeys.

Hell, maybe one of those sonic alarms that are supposed to hurt your hearing might be the answer. When the monkeys start getting closer, insert ear plugs and let it go. Maybe using a directional speaker or something to point the sound away from humans. But that would cost more then ammo i guess. Maybe we could get a couple of the pentagon's LED puke rays and let them point it in the direction of the monkeys. A "good will" loaner maybe?

Re:So, shoot 'em.

[iminplaya]

Hell, maybe one of those sonic alarms that are supposed to hurt your hearing might be the answer.

Heh, my father's solution would have probably been to just play some of that "rock 'n roll" music.

Monkey Construction Workers

[euxneks]

Monkey, wearing a hard hat and grabbing crotch: Yeah baby shake that ass!

good golly

[unity100]

"ut they're protected by the gov't why? "

the "why" there, that single word, nullifies your chances of getting any decent response to what you post. if you are not able to understand that "why", you wouldnt be able to understand what someone explains to you.

Re:good golly

[Shivani1141]

I'm quite able to understand the why there. "why" in this case, can be any number of reasons, danger of extinction, protected habitat area, significant to plant growth of a protected wildlife area (fecal seeding, or the like). That's a no brainer. However, they're also a danger to farming operations in Africa, which for a good chunk of the last quarter century at LEAST has been plagued by drought, mismanaged farms and other issues which confound the ability of the populace to adequately feed itself. Therefore, the only real reason is a WWF/UN imperative created by 1st world enviromentalist interests to protect the animals.

However, regardless of how many monkeys of that particular species there might be, we're doing overreaching amounts of harm by allowing them to become attached to a method of food gathering that relies on raiding human foodstocks. A raiding party clearly needs to be made example of (harmed preferrably, but face it, it's Africa, they're getting killed.) So that the monkies return to a sustainable natural gathering method that would allow them to function smoothly and avoid attracting human ire in the long run. Failing the luxury of such a solution, the other viable alternative is moving the clan of monkeys entirely.

Anyways, in response to your post, that why should be something like "why are they being blindly protected" not "why are they protected". Protection schemes that interfere with the ability of an organism to cope with certain challenges damage that organism when that challenge arises.

Re:good golly

[unity100]

A raiding party clearly needs to be made example of (harmed preferrably, but face it, it's Africa, they're getting killed.) So that the monkies return to a sustainable natural gathering method that would allow them to function smoothly and avoid attracting human ire in the long run. Failing the luxury of such a solution, the other viable alternative is moving the clan of monkeys entirely.

a raiding party is their sustainable natural gathering method. if you make them give up that, then you will be eradicating them. and, even if you kill half of a raiding party, in 1-2 generations, which wont be 1-2 years, they will have forgotten it.

Re:good golly

[powerlinekid]

Well, I would recommend that you learn English before you start hanging out on "western countries" web sites.

It just might make someone care about what you have to say. What you just wrote? Not English. Just because your country isn't developed doesn't mean you have the right to bitch about people who live in a country that is. I don't expect you to understand this... but the US alone has 300 million people with 300 million different agendas. Not all Americas work for a megacorp... in fact very few do.

Re:good golly

[Anonymous Coward]

a raiding party is their sustainable natural gathering method.

I thought the whole concept of "natural" was to eliminate the influence of humans. ie: "raiding humans" is explicitly not natural. Neither is it sustainable, unless you place upon humans the requirement to feed these animals like pets. Presumably, these animals had a sustainable means of support prior to human encroachment, but now find it more convenient to steal from the tribe.

Re:good golly

[unity100]

i actually abhor the idea of humans being unnatural. how come ? humans are a NATURAL result of the evolution on this planet, along with their technology and intelligence. what is unnatural is the way humans of this planet foolhardily harming their own ecosphere, their own sustenance with overuse and misuse of resources and total vandalism of their own environment - which is the thing they live in. if human society would smarten up to the fact that going mutually beneficial increases every chance of every specie on the face of the world, there would be nothing unnatural about humans.

Re:good golly

[PachmanP]

Actually "foolhardily harming their ecosphere" is the natural thing to do. Not enough predators around to keep populations under control, population explodes eating everything in sight damaging the ecosystem, animals all starve, population is reduced drastically, ecosphere has time to recover and hopefully some sort of equilibrium is achieved.

People are doing that we just haven't gotten to the starve state yet.

Re:good golly

[unity100]

Actually "foolhardily harming their ecosphere" is the natural thing to do. Not enough predators around to keep populations under control, population explodes eating everything in sight damaging the ecosystem, animals all starve, population is reduced drastically, ecosphere has time to recover and hopefully some sort of equilibrium is achieved.

actually nature leading a specie to intelligence kinda implies that these creatures should not need any predators to be under control. since they are intelligent. with abstract thought they should be able to conclude that if they harm their ecosphere both themselves and ecosphere will suffer.

nay

[unity100]

we should shoot morons like you to help mankind's evolution instead.

Re:nay

[Anonymous Coward]

...

Shoot people who think shooting monkeys that harass people is a good idea.

I believe that is the realm of the eco-terrorist. Oh and really stupid. Good job.

Re:nay

[unity100]

or we should first shoot people that are not able to form a coherent, fluent sentence yet trying to purport shooting people who think shooting monkeys that are harrassing people.

Re:nay

[jcr]

You veggies are so funny when you try to sound tough.

-jcr

Re:nay

[timmarhy]

Then you better start by putting a gun to your own head. "yet trying to purport shooting people who think shooting monkeys that are harrassing people" makes no sense at all.

Re:nay

[jcr]

Dude, put down the crack pipe before posting. You've just advocated shooting yourself.

-jcr

Re:nay

[Loligo]

As two other posters have already mentioned, you've just supported shooting yourself... But I'll bring up one interfering factoid to both of them: This is the kind of person that wets themself in fear when even a PICTURE of a gun is in the same room.

  -l

Re:nay

[rts008]

Yes, kill all the humans to protect the critters...who will shoot you? The critters, us, yourself?

What foolishness you try to speak!

Monkey see, monkey do...I fling monkey poo at you until the monkeys do!

Hmmm... that could be a monkey poo haiku. Have to try that next time I reply to yet another inane post.

Re:nay

[unity100]

ha ha ha yeah hahaha.

toughie, come back after you are conscripted to a real military service and ordered to shoot to kill and learnt what being 'tough' means.

Re:nay

[unity100]

excuse me, im someone who did military service in a middle eastern country that has a guerilla warfare going on, and in the branch of it that is dealing with the terrorism. what did you say about wetting oneself ?

Re:nay

[unity100]

be as it may be, im not an impolite person. only after you.

Re:nay

[jcr]

Did you perhaps take a round to the head during this military training you claim to have had?

-jcr

Re:nay

[jcr]

So, advocating the murder of human beings isn't considered "impolite" where you come from?

Sounds lovely. You must be overrun with tourists.

-jcr

Re:nay

[unity100]

getting a round in the head and then still being able to use computers would constitute the peak of toughness. and more so, in that they were 7.62 assault rifle rounds, not pansy 5.56 mms like u.s. army use - former blows off 1/5 of the body when touches, latter only wounds.

Re:nay

[unity100]

word juggling and twisting only availed politicians with malicious intent, during the course of history. lets not do that. and you go read what i recently posted again.

Re:nay

[jcr]

You started this by suggesting that I should be killed. Is that considered civil behavior in your part of the world?

-jcr

Re:nay

[jcr]

Are you trying to impress me by bragging about ammunition calibers? If so, you're doing an exceptionally poor job of it.

-jcr

Re:nay

[Loligo]

Gecko45? Is that you? God, I love the anti-guerilla counter-terrorist guys on the net. They're always fun.

Yeah, well, I was an elite CIA Force Recon UDT Sniper Seal Yellow Beret (much cooler than those Green Beret pansies) with OSS doing black ops in the Argonne Forest just north of the Chosin Reservoir back in '84. I can't comment on which unit I was with or anything I actually did because it's so top secret the government will deny I was ever in the military, and you might get on the NSA's super-secret list if you even reply to this comment.

  -l

Re:nay

[mikael]

Somebody send those villagers a punt gun:

160 clay pigeons in a single shot

Re:nay

[Hijacked Public]

Good call.

Re:nay

[unity100]

its considered roughly equal with suggesting killing of weak animals.

Re:nay

[unity100]

Gecko45 is not here. He didnt make it back from peru.

Re:nay

[unity100]

nay ill be just passing by your posts. there are people who are posting with much more substance and material that id rather conserve my energy replying to them.

Re:nay

[jcr]

Killing people is equivalent to killing animals in this twisted world view of yours?

Let me guess... You're from Germany, circa 1939?

-jcr

Wet blanket time.

[Apuleius]

As soon as your done having your laughs, folks, remember that it's a hell of a lot funnier when it isn't your family that's at risk of hunger.

Re:Wet blanket time.

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember when fishing for karma, folks, to always place the reader in an obvious hypothetical scenario.

Re:Wet blanket time.

[Anonymous Coward]

You're so right - I can't stop laughing now!

Re:Wet blanket time.

[wolfgang_spangler]

What?

This is a story about women who are afraid to work the fields because monkeys point at the womens breasts and make "sexually explicit gestures" which nobody can confirm, but one women says.

If you can be mentally beaten by a bunch of monkeys and claim you are afraid of sexual harassment from the monkeys...you are too stupid to use oxygen and should stop.

It sounds like these monkeys are more intelligent than the people.

the eco friendly solution

[edwardpickman]

300 female Vervet Monkeys in black teddies..

Re:the eco friendly solution

[Sponge Bath]

That would only lead to more monkeys.

Re:the eco friendly solution

[Provocateur]

Uh-oh for some strange reason, the men have come out of their houses...

And today's captcha is 'maleness'

Easy Solution

[VonSkippy]

Put out RFQ for cheap monkey food pellets.

Select lowest bid from China.

Feed monkeys lots and lots of goodly Chinese monkey food.

Problem solved.

Its EVOLUTION - geez

[unity100]

This case says that monkeys are actually doing INTER SPECIES communication.

werent we protecting that many species in order to preserve the nature and provide natural evolution for species ?

there. you have your evolution. and not of the simple kind too - INTELLIGENT COMMUNICATION that is being used to discern the entity in front of you understands your nature, and tells you that it understands your nature. not some exceptional gorilla named koko who has been trained, not some extraordinary parrot that knows 200+ words - your run off the mill monkey in a forest.

im no zoologist biologist or anything, but even i know that this is gold in those sciences.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

I'd say we...

[Anonymous Coward]

nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

skeptical

[Anonymous Coward]

Am I the only person who is a little bit suspicious of this news story? Until they get some actual physical documentation of this alleged monkey behavior, it might be wise to be a little more skeptical. This reads a bit too much like urban legend or supermarket tabloid material.

Re:skeptical

[Pooua]

No, you are not the only one who finds this story fanciful. This just screams exaggeration. And, I would point out, this is not the first time that faith in the power of evolution has made monkeys of the True Believing Evolutionists.

/. crowd utterly fails when it comes to sensitivit

[unity100]

y ?

apparently so.

3-4 of the comments are "Shoot the damn monkeys already" and other fuckola - yay praise for those of you you gun-owning, harley-driving, badass-wannabee excuses of evolution, that post those morondom, those who ever did not see what actualy "badassness" in a real military service while being trained to kill. maybe we should shoot you instead first, to aid mankind's evolution ?

maybe then more intelligent and emotionally stable individuals can take your place, those who would be actually capable of understanding the reason that there is famine in african countries are megacorporations that screw the hell outta them through installed puppet dictators, and the roadside gangs and thugs seizing the food aid thats being sent there as a result. NOT MONKEYS OR DROUGHT. - then actually we would have individuals who would be able to actually say something VALID about how to solve the problem.

ow

[prestorjohn]

This is the most fucking bizzare thing ive seen all day, and i just spent the last two hours on bash.org

Obligatory

[NeoManyon]

Well i for one welcome our new sexually harassing evil monkey overlords

Re:Obligatory

[Cafe Alpha]

I'll lose all respect for you if you mod parent up. Don't make me lose respect for humanity.

Re:Its EVOLUTION - geez

[BiggerIsBetter]

OK, so the monkeys have shown that they're intelligent, and have language. So, what's the solution? Learn it and then teach the monkeys the concept of property rights and expect them not to hunt the livestock? Maybe teach them farming too? While not impossible, this approach gets difficult very quickly. OTOH, they already have some rights protected by law (eg, don't kill the monkeys), so maybe it's not such a huge step.

I still think it's easier to go old school and kill a few to show 'em who's still the baddest primate. Which raises the question, where are the hell are the men when their women and their food supply are under threat? They should be out there kicking monkey ass.

MONKEYS!

[falzer]

TONIGHT WE DINE IN KENYA!

Re:MONKEYS!

[sykopomp]

But that's where the lions and tigers live :( Let's just go to Norway.

Dress up as king kong gorrila suit

[cheekyboy]

And run and scare the heebieejeebiies out of them.

Or give them a few bananas laced with LCD.

Re:Dress up as king kong gorrila suit

[Dogtanian]

Or give them a few bananas laced with LCD. And then use the monkeys as digital watches or computer displays?

Re:Its EVOLUTION - geez

[unity100]

as we are the more advanced one with the higher intelligence, we are bound and ABLE to find a solution without killing.

ffs each western country has zillions of methods with their local police forces for subduing even peaceful protesters. let u.n. work something out.

Round them up and put them to work

[stox]

Put them in Congress. No one will notice for....Heck no one will notice.

Someone didn't RTFA

[dekkerdreyer]

Slashdot: "are sexually harassing the women"

Article: "We are afraid that they will sexually harass us"

This article sounds like the story from India a few years ago where cats were turning into large beasts and attacking people. 70% of the villagers had seen it, but somehow it was never photographed or captured.

Re:Someone didn't RTFA

[timmarhy]

article states they are grabbing their breats. just what does it take in your books to be sexual harassment?

Re:Someone didn't RTFA

[doyoulikeworms]

from TFA: "The monkeys grab their breasts, and gesture at us while pointing at their private parts."

You try that at work and see what happens...

Re:Someone didn't RTFA

[pjt33]

The summary is pretty much a rewriting of the first paragraph of the article, which begins

If you live in the small village of Nachu in Kenya, watch out, because a group of approximately 300 marauding monkeys is out to steal your food, sexually harass your women and attack and kill your livestock! In a truly amazing incidence of interspecies communication, a group of vervet monkeys, Cercopithecus aethiops, is using sexual harassment to intimidate women and children...

Re:Someone didn't RTFA

[Pooua]

Frankly, this sounds like another fanciful story from villagers with over-active imaginations. Far from making statements like, "This is the first time we have reports of interspecies communications" (that is, sexual harassment as communication), the authors ought to be far more skeptical, because, this is NOT the first time we have heard these kind of claims. This is just another "King Kong" story, with monkeys.

Ah, monkies...

[NerveGas]

    Is there anything they do that ISN'T entertaining?

Re:Ah, monkies...

[roman_mir]

No. No there isn't.

Bullets!

[Anonymous Coward]

Bullets are 100% effective in the treatment of Sexual Harassment Monkeys!

Scared of small mammals

[suckmysav]

Just as well we don't have women fighting in the army.

Oh wait . . . .

Re:Scared of small mammals

[Anonymous Coward]

You should realize that these monkeys have something like 7 times the strength of a person of the same size, and they are small and fast and travel in packs. Even a single mad monkey would (at the very least) seriously fuck a grown man. The reason they don't more often is because our size scares them, not our strength.

You've obviously never experienced a monkey attack, if you had you would have more sense than to say such a thing.

History is written by the winners

[Nymz]

...so don't default to a racist viewpoint, and instead support the monkeys because they obviously have the upper hand here. They are smarter, willing to work together, and have bigger balls than a creature five times their size.

Re:History is written by the winners

[Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki]

It's like dodgeball, except one of the teams isn't allowed to hit the other one. They're only winners because of artifical limitations put on the humans by other humans not because of any innate superiority.

Re:History is written by the winners

[Anonymous Coward]

Women don't have balls.

btw, capatcha is "bosoms". I kid you not.

Where do I

[Anonymous Coward]

Where do I sign up?

kill dogs?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, come on...the post shows a picture of these things....they kill dogs? What kinds of dogs do these people use? I looks to me like anything terrier size or bigger would enjoy killing these monkeys.

Re:kill dogs?

[SL Baur]

Never underestimate intelligence unless you're dealing with (most, but not all) people.

My first dog, who was most effective at scaring away stupid dangerous people much bigger than him, was stealthily poisoned by an individual who was not unlike the monkeys in the article (and since it was in the 3rd world, maybe for similar reasons).

Size sometimes doesn't matter. Mosquitoes kill. African hyenas can group up and take on much larger prey than themselves. I have no doubt that a group of monkeys smart enough to have learned human sexual gestures could kill a lone dog. Much as I love dogs, they're just not smart enough to run away fast enough when they're in the most danger (and running away isn't enough if the attackers are smart enough).

Same principle as raid teams to kill boss monsters in Outlands instances, scaled down somewhat.

If this article is an "urban legend" kind of thing, it's a masterful one. From what I've read about the Kenya/Congo part of Africa and all of my own experiences in somewhat less then technological societies, I believe it. It matches reality as I have experienced it.

Re:kill dogs?

[Anonymous Coward]

Geeze, just boy a couple BB guns and lotsa ammunition and have a stone throwing/bb gunning fragfest in the jungle. Frag those monkeys off their trees, annoy and pester them right *back*. Do that in shifts, keep chasing them until you've driven them away.

Re:kill dogs?

[Anonymous Coward]

You sound like an Troll or a Tauren. Hordie!

Re:kill dogs?

[Anonymous Coward]

dude, if they run from men, I would think dogs could intimidate them. These things weigh 10 pounds! It's said they can deliver a good bite, but they are the same mass as foxes, which also bite, and lone dogs hunt them all the time. I'm just not buying it...
While hyenas in groups can taunt female lions, even groups of them don't mess with the males...and again, male lions kill hyenas for sport, it seems.
If these things attack in groups, I'd say just bumping the weight of the dogs up to a modest 50 pounds would prove sufficient..and if needed we can crank that weight up to 200 pounds... something's gotta give...
Also, i would think most any dog can outrun these things...they're not built exclusively for terrestrial locomotion.

Re:Its EVOLUTION - geez

[Antique Geekmeister]

It could be inter-species fornication: take a look at the "woman humped to death by camel" story at http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/AFECFC7A-8BC4-4619-9 7EE-9EBCBD660B01/.

Just a bunch of evolutionist hogwash

[Man On Pink Corner]

No, there's no way we share a common ancestor with these guys. They certainly weren't created in the image of the same God as we were, right? ... Right?

C'mon, guys, help me out here. My faith in Genesis is wearing kinda thin here.

Re:Just a bunch of evolutionist hogwash

[Anonymous Coward]

Though I can see the resemblance, MY faith in Genesis was lost when Phil took over.

Re:Just a bunch of evolutionist hogwash

[Anonymous Coward]

No, BLACKS share a common ancestor with these things... But we can't mention that because it's so obvious...

Re:Just a bunch of evolutionist hogwash

[Anonymous Coward]

My faith in Genesis is wearing kinda thin here.

I lost mine when Peter Gabriel left.

I think there's a simple solution.

[mosb1000]

"I wonder why this is occurring all of a sudden? I'd guess this is the result of human encroachment into the monkeys' former territory or perhaps a local food shortage, perhaps caused by the residents."

Uh, this is obviously a case of monkeys encroaching on peoples land, I don't know why everything has to be our fault all the time. I know that in the US farmers would use shotguns to solve this kind of problem (regardless of the legality), I think a similar approach could work in Kenya.

Re:I think there's a simple solution.

[Anonymous Coward]

I know that in the US farmers would use shotguns to solve this kind of problem (regardless of the legality), I think a similar approach could work in Kenya.

It only worked here because we're a civilized country which fundamentally respects the notion of property rights and human rights as opposed to being some corrupt republic where decisions are based on who greased whose palm.

Re:I think there's a simple solution.

[timmarhy]

They might be some smart monkeys, but if it was my property, they would need to think their way around a .38 bullet.

Re:I think there's a simple solution.

[mosb1000]

"they would need to think their way around a .38 bullet"

For small, fast moving critters like monkeys I would use bird shot. It would be hard to hit them with a bullet.

Re:I think there's a simple solution.

[timmarhy]

By the sounds of it you could just walk up and cap them point blank. This would probably only work for the first 2 or 3 till they got wise to whiteman's boom stick. Then the hunt begins.

Re:I think there's a simple solution.

[edwardpickman]

If you want to get technical bird shot is a lousy way to go. You're more likely to badly injure them than kill them unless you're fairly close. Something like #4 Buckshot is better. They hold 28 pellets that are each nearly the size of a .22 round. There are rounds like turkey shot but most bird shot is smaller than BBs. It's really meant for small birds not mammals. Small buckshot gives you a better chance of killing rather than wounding them. It's common for bird shot to not kill the birds just cripple them. At a short distance it can be devastating but after 20 or 30 feet it looses energy fast and spreads out.

Re:I think there's a simple solution.

[Anonymous Coward]

Rocksalt loads are the traditional answer. Nonlethal but hurts like hell.

You need a cheap gun for this job: throwing rocksalt through the barrel will wear it out pretty fast. And a light gun that can be pointed quickly (you don't aim a shotgun, you point it). Light and simple, so the women and children can use it while the men are off doing, uh, manly things.

So something like a 410 or 20 gauge pump action of the type called a variously a "riot gun", or "trench gun". Maybe with a cheap nylon barrel. These are making something of a comeback as home defense weapons. They are pretty intimidating, but the shot won't penetrate even flimsy walls, and the effective range is only about twenty yards or so anyway, so they pose minimal risk to bystanders.

Wow, slashdot trolls are copying the monkeys

[Cafe Alpha]

Slashdotter see slashdotter do!

Re:Its EVOLUTION - geez

[timmarhy]

Thats convienent for you to push this, since your not the one starving, asshole. Why the fuck do you think you have any right to interfer in the first place? bleeding hearts like you caused the problem by brow beating these countries into making laws to stop any harm coming to your precious monkeys in the first place. If you had of just let them kill the odd 1 or 2 for stealing, the monkeys would have stayed afraid of humans and it wouldn't have come to this.

"let u.n. work something out."

Yeah right and in the mean time the villagers have to go hungry, all because you feel bad for some monkeys. Do you have any clue just how long it takes the u.n to do ANYTHING?

they arent evil at all

[talledega500]

Its only a matter of time before evolution catches up to us, in the form of other species displaying evolved behavior,
without complicated rules and laws to hold them back.

A higly evolved monkey is not going to change behavior because a woman throws a rock at him anymore than
a determined human male will.

Maybe you should ask Jesus what to do

Re:they arent evil at all

[Anonymous Coward]

I for one welcome our new monkey overlords!

Re:they arent evil at all

[Anonymous Coward]

We'd just kill them. That's how we solve every problem from native americans to black people.

There's always something wrong with nature and it can always be fixed with weapons.

Maybe you should ask the history books what to do.

Re:weeeeell welll

[timmarhy]

Your the one in here trying to lord it over everyone else with your self proclaimed superiority. I propose that you go work in a field with nipple clenching monkeys, starving for a few days. you'd sing a different tune then i'm sure.

Re:Oh the ladies were hot!

[SL Baur]

We put some strapon dildos ... Whoever moderated this off-topic is on drugs. This isn't off-topic, this is one of those monkeys come over here to spy on us! Quick somebody, shoot him!

Re:/. crowd utterly fails when it comes to sensiti

[timmarhy]

wtf? "megacorporations" build factories in poor nations that provide jobs. sure they suck ass, but it's either work in a sweat shop for 10c a day, or work the fields till your back breaks or prosititue your body till you die from AIDS. i know which i'd pick.

How on earth you make a link between corperations and road side gangs stealing food is a theory i truly need to hear for my own amusment.

lastly, i'd like to point out that it's YOU that's the insensitive one. how the fuck can you sit there and propose that a poor farming afican community should go with LESS FOOD so that the monkeys are ok, and still claim the moral high ground, i'll never know. As CLEARLY stated in the article, they already tried their best to just scare the monkeys off (which i'm in favour of if it works). I suggest you get a little perspective and lose the aggorance.

Spurious Logic. . .

[mosb1000]

I'm never sure whether or not these kind posts are serious. For the sake of argument, lets say you are serious.

I don't think there is any reason to say that people are "more advanced" than monkeys. I mean, it's not like they're version 1.0 and we're version 1.1 or some shit. They simply fill a different ecological niche.

I also don't see any reason to say that we have higher intelligence. Maybe we have higher intelligence by human standards, but they no doubt have higher intelligence by monkey standards. They would tell you this if you could talk to them. They'd say "look how stupid you humans are, you can't even stop us from taking your food!" in fact, this may be the message they are trying to communicate to women and children by harassing them.

Finally, I don't see why being more "advanced" and "intelligent" would mean that we should find a solution without killing. The presence of human civilization, which is likely responsible for your claims of superior human advancement and intelligence, has been brought about in large part by our superior ability to kill all kinds of animals. Why should we stop doing it if it's worked so well for thousands of years?

Re:Spurious Logic. . .

[timmarhy]

"I also don't see any reason to say that we have higher intelligence"

I don't shit in my own hand then eat it. Yes, I am better then a monkey. Clearly you have assessed your own intelligence and found it to be less then a monkey, that's the only conclusion i can draw from your post.

I only dumb thing the people are doing in this whole situation, is taking crap from a stupid monkey.

Re:Spurious Logic. . .

[mosb1000]

I was trying to say that intelligence is a very subjective concept. The OP seemed to take it for granted that humans are more intelligent than monkeys, without saying why he felt that way, or how that logically meant that we should not kill the little bastards.

Re:Spurious Logic. . .

[unity100]

its dead simple why we have to come up with a more mutually beneficial solution.

check out the evolution process.

when you dig around, you will see that its not being tougher or stronger or more aggressive that propels some species into higher evolutionary stages, but cooperation, mutually beneficial acts WITHIN the social structure of the species and with the other species. lets now examine examples :

stellar example - humans. the evolution of humans have gone parallel to their capacity of being cooperative within the specie or even the social unit, and therefore besting out dangers and dire situations. caring for the weak, protecting the infant, nurturing the needy were the strengths that allowed the early primate societies to be able to go into playing with this and that and come up with tools that were eventually to be used in survival.

lets get it further - humans have established mutually beneficial relations with many other species and caused both parties to thrive - wheat might be one of the most abundant plant specie on the face of the earth, and this is solely due to human dependence on them. same goes for cattle. they are protected, and they give out something in return. there are kinks to work out as to the degree of mutually beneficialness because we slaughter the cattle in parts of the relationship, but as with recent human history this will be evolving into a more mutually benefical relationship too.

taking human near history - in the last 2000 years, wars and aggressive acts have decreased in FREQUENCY and distribution to geography - compared to what it was before and after a brief stellar period during rome, you do not have any chance of a local raider living 100 km to you to come raid you, rape your wife and take your child as slave. therefore in the last 2000 years we have seen an increasingly consistent level of civilizational development. again, excluding rome, which is a real anomaly in regard to history - in that the modern concepts we still use are taken from rome, from the concept of apartment to modern law, and even medicine in parts.

you can increase examples just as you wish - there are seemingly weak fish and lobster species in the ocean that live together, one is acting as sentry and other is digging the hole both will live in. they never go further from each other than 10 cm. yet, in an ocean of many dangers, these two species best out many other species and thrive despite when compared to other species as a single unit, they should be long extinct. or the jellyfish - bacteria mutualism in southeastern asia.

therefore, it is conclusive that the acts which mutually benefit a specie and the other continually elevates the chances of both species. from this comes the conclusion that "we are further advanced since we need to find a less aggressive, more beneficial way". acting otherwise have brought many problems to the modern world, that are making the worldwide news today.

Re:Spurious Logic. . .

[unity100]

what i see lad, is you wandering around my posts in this thread, and cursing and swearing like there is no tomorrow.

it is evident that what i said touched some nerves. great leaps in vision and betterment of one's outlook starts this way. thats good, because this was the intent.

Re:Spurious Logic. . .

[mosb1000]

So, how is letting monkeys steal our food mutually beneficial? How was killing all the wolves in Europe mutually beneficial? If you are competing for the same resources, you either get them or you don't. Just because there are mutually beneficial situations doesn't mean that animals don't kill each other, or that it would be bad for us to shoot unmanageable monkeys.

Re:Spurious Logic. . .

[unity100]

none of them are mutually beneficial. because they are NOT mutually beneficial in nature.

a mutually beneficial solution does not need to be directly affecting both parties and in the subset they are put forth.

so both parties do not need to get immediate benefits from each other right from the actions of both parties on the time of the incident.

some mutually beneficial actions already have been spoken of, like relocating monkeys to a conservation zone. if we sit and think we can find more. im sure the wildlife preservation people in africa can think of much more.

Re:Spurious Logic. . .

[TempeTerra]

Nitpick: evolution is not directional. Species don't evolve to be 'better' or 'more advanced', they evolve to suit their environment. By most criteria, the most successful strategy for a species is to be single celled.

Not that I disagree with your point - but you should describe success as being at the top of the food chain, or more robust in the face of change, or something other than 'more highly evolved' since evolution doesn't have height.

Re:Spurious Logic. . .

[unity100]

nay, maybe i miscommunicated. or did not explain all parts of my point.

apex of evolution need not and should not be being on top of food chain. apex of evolution would be to be the governing body of a living, breathing, entirely integrated ecosphere of mutual relationships - no species grinding each other down by killing, yet every specie using byproduct of one or more species' activities. that would eliminate the instinct/gene to breed rapidly in many species too, like rabbits. is this possible ? yes. evolutionary history says so - a few billion years ago there were species that even ate their own species, leave aside others, yet today cannibalism is something that is rarely seen in species and our ecosphere is much more mild and plausible, and cooperative within itself than the ancient ecosphere of live and let die. if no stellar disasters happen to nuke earth ecosystem into oblivion, things will progress in that direction apparently.

in such an environment that would be the result of this process, impossible is possible. it would be possible to terraform land using other species, and tap untapped resources.

actually the abundance would get so overboard that noone would know what to do with the excess resources around.

Re:Spurious Logic. . .

[mosb1000]

"relocating monkeys to a conservation zone"

The problem is that the human food is easily accessible, so monkeys will always try to come and steal it. It doesn't matter how many monkeys you move away, more will come because the food is available. The only solution it to secure your food against the wildlife. Throughout history, we humans have fenced our crops and livestock and killed or chased away the wild animals, its the only way to stop them.

Re:Spurious Logic. . .

[unity100]

do you see ourselves as being in the "course of history" you picture ? we have liquid shark repellants now for god's sake.

however in any case, africa is a big continent, and there are many possibilities. and in many parts of it humans are encroaching in forests. that is bad for not only wildlife, but us in that one of the existing 3 rainforest zones that feed the world most of its o2 is in africa. maybe humans should be relocated - as i said, there are much to be set right before it comes to monkeys, and even setting a few of them would probably liberate any locals from where they have migrated to make a living.

Re:Spurious Logic. . .

[jbengt]

"evolutional is not directional"
If you have any doubts about evolution's general directionality, compare species at various points along a timline of evolution.
"Species don't evolve to be 'better' or 'more advanced', . . ."
Your a right that evolution doesn't distinguish better or worse, but people do, and they may judge the evolutionary timeline by those values.

Re:Spurious Logic. . .

[zippthorne]

What killing of the wolves in Europe? Wolves are the second most successful animal in Europe after people.

Re:Spurious Logic. . .

[Anonymous Coward]

Finally an intelligent point of view. I was tired of hearing those "evolution favors species that are better at killing, raping, enslaving, etc each other and others" The future belongs to societies based on mutual cooperation.

Re:Spurious Logic. . .

[unity100]

indeed. that is the reason that evolution apparently awards intelligence to the specie that does the most cooperation and least aggression.

sounds like a job for.....

[DohnJoe]

Petey, the sexual harassment panda! Did you know that when one little panda pulls on another little panda's underwear, that's sexual harassment? That makes me a sa-a-a-a-ad panda. And when one little panda puts his furry little willy in another panda's ear, that makes me a very sad panda.

WWTHAD?

[Kaenneth]

What Would The A-Team Do?

First, to travel a long distance with B.A. by plane, he'd have to be tricked into taking a sedative, then loaded onto the plane.

Hannibal and Face would be too busy sexually harrasing the women themselves to get serious for a while. Murdoc would 'get to know the enemy' by joining the monkeys, while B.A. would be pissed about getting tricked again.

Inspired by the earlier drugging of B.A., Hannibal would come up with the plan to have Murdoc sleeping drug the monkeys while B.A. and Face Montage-Weld a specialized monkey-scooper truck, to load them on the plane. As they leave they drop the monkeys into the compound of the military dictator.

(maybe I shouldn't port at 2 am)

Re:WWTHAD?

[Anonymous Coward]

now there's an idea

how about catching these monkeys and airdropping them over Kim Yong Ills private retreat? or alternatively, amadjehimedad (or however you spell that, you know, the iranian dude)

Re:WWTHAD?

[Mike Van Pelt]

> ... amadjehimedad (or however you spell that, you know, the iranian dude) Eichmanndinejad

Re:WWTHAD?

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot the part where Hannibal dresses up like a woman to trick the monkeys. Oh yeah, and a monkey-driven car does a corkscrew at some point.

Re:WWTHAD?

[Anonymous Coward]

I love it when a plan comes together.
*smokes cigar*

Re:Its EVOLUTION - geez

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you have any clue just how long it takes the u.n to do ANYTHING?

Pretty fucking long since the US always vetoes EVERYTHING

What About Ebola?

[LowlyWorm]

Most Ebola outbreaks seem to have originated from the Congo but I would be wary. KEEP AWAY FROM THE BLEEDING MONKEYS!!!

Re:Its EVOLUTION - geez

[Loligo]

Facts are hard.

More than half of the vetoes in the history of the UN Security Council have been cast by the pre-fall Soviet Union.

The majority of the vetoes cast by the US have been against resolutions condemning Israel in matters of self-defense.

  -l

Survival of the fittest.

[Anonymous Coward]

Thankfully, the weak, such as yourself, will quickly perish.

Long live humanity.

Re:weeeeell welll

[unity100]

oh yea. i was the one that purported underdeveloped, violent, brutal methods and then came scorned other people because they were not from "a western country" and hence "underdeveloped and not worthy".

what i have spoke about are values fundamental to the existence of modern society. im wondering who is the moron who have been stupid enough to mod down a post which puts forth values of humanism, democracy, secularism, reason being transcendent of languages. because regardless of a bunch of "developed" kids toy with their mod points and discard these values as negligible when they try to lord over their "developedness" on someone from an "underdeveloped" part of the world or not, these values are superior and they are going to stay superior.

New solutions.

[Charcharodon]

Here are the solutions to the problem.

Shoot the monkeys, well you already said this one is out, and so does the local government.

Shoot the villagers, this would take care of the habitat encroachment/enivronmental damage problems or at least a minimum all the bitching and whining. Though on a down note the monkeys might go hungry till they figure out how to forage again or conduct sustainable eco-friendly agriculture.

Outsmart the monkeys, but it looks like this particular village has brought the proverbial "knife to a gun fight" in this battle of wits.

Or who really gives a fuck and let's just welcome our New Monkey Overlords by giving them our food and women.

Also if you are going to make fun of Americans at least have the common courtesy of identify your country of origin so that we can ridicule you properly.

Re:New solutions.

[unity100]

i dont remember making fun of americans.

i DO remember giving right treatment to a prick that was touting fine western qualities without having a single bit from any of them though. if that was an american, well, you americans have a lot of weeding out to do amongst your people.

Re:New solutions.

[Charcharodon]

Again, failure to identify one's country of orgin is impolite. It doesn't matter now, I see now that you are from Turkey. I could have made some generalized 3rd world joke and that probably would not have been entirely acurate. After all one man's 3rd world is another man's 1st, that and Turkey hardly qualifies as 3rd world, more like 2 1/4. I haven't had the chance to visit yet, but according to my friends who have been there it is a nice place to live.

Now I do find it kind of funny that you are quick to bash Westerners, when at the same time your country is trying to throw their lot in with them. When that finally happens will you be part of the "Evil Western-Mega corp" machine too?

Back to the original question, what to do with the monkeys?

Habitat encrouchment and settlement of marginal lands is a big problem in Africa and in many other parts of the world. People shouldn't just live anywhere they damn well please, or at least shouldn't complain when Mother Nature bitch slaps them when they do, and defintely we shouldn't running in there every time with food aid unless it is apart of a movement to depopulate the area through birth-control or relocation.

So back to the original question. What is more valuable people or monkeys? Obviously the government thinks more highly of the monkeys, even though they are not even remotely endangered, which begs the question why? Either these people are living on or near a known animal santuary, which means they are most likely squators and the government has no sympathy for them. Or the people in power are playing some sort of game for either ethnic or economic reasons.

Re:New solutions.

[unity100]

what kind of place is turkey to live in, turkish people even have no idea about. ill just leave it for its a long discussion.

you either didnt read the entirety of this thread, or you have some perception or short term memory issues.

i didnt bash westerners. i bashed an arrogant moron who was acting like a prick despite he didnt had single one of the qualities that made the western world what they are today. i started from erasmus and went on to perikles to french revolutionaries. for all i know, this is not bashing. this is teaching some lesson to someone who should have been in a 3rd world country, but somehow ended up in a western country and still acting like a prick.

yes turkey is throwing its lot with west, europe particularly and eventually it will make it there. however it does not mean that what is being done by megacorps is right. turkey has more stability and heritage, hence the megacorp horrors lived in africa and other 3rd world places are not felt here as much, but that still doesnt mean that the wanton behavior of these are not damaging the entire society. still, turkey is much more protected from the degree of evilness these crops exhibit in u.s. in the way they buy senators to the extent that parliamentary houses pass tailored laws like drones, yet, its still bad here too.

Habitat encrouchment and settlement of marginal lands is a big problem in Africa and in many other parts of the world. People shouldn't just live anywhere they damn well please, or at least shouldn't complain when Mother Nature bitch slaps them when they do, and defintely we shouldn't running in there every time with food aid unless it is apart of a movement to depopulate the area through birth-control or relocation.

that was one of the thoughts i have tried to say impliedly, but if i did i would be flamed with accusations of insensitivity. however this is correct.

So back to the original question. What is more valuable people or monkeys? Obviously the government thinks more highly of the monkeys, even though they are not even remotely endangered, which begs the question why? Either these people are living on or near a known animal santuary, which means they are most likely squators and the government has no sympathy for them. Or the people in power are playing some sort of game for either ethnic or economic reasons.

ill give a mutually beneficial philosophy answer : they are both important. we are not in a time of doom that we have to choose in between either humans or monkeys. we have the means, the power to preserve both parties. yet, there are factors that are preventing them, and these factors are not from natural reasons - but basic unbridled greed. as governments and organizations are not able to stand up to the megacorporations, there is only one force that can - the people. the public. basically, us. real problem needs to be solved, not the symptoms.

other than that your other assumptions may be true too, in that there is some game might be afoot.

Re:weeeeell welll

[timmarhy]

I'm advocating the rights of the villagers not to starve. Yeah i'm such a prick.

Insane Laws

[955301]

Despite their new problems with the monkeys, it is a criminal offence to harm or kill any of them, so the besieged villagers must figure out a way to outwit the monkeys instead.

This law needs to be updated to stipulate that defending your food supply from the monkeys warrants their harm or death. Then these women need to be supplied with baseball catcher's masks, leather armor, and a can of whoop-ass.

Nobody dominates mankind. Add monkey meat to your diet.

Re:Its EVOLUTION - geez

[unity100]

dimwit, did you go to africa and worked in ANY relief effort ? ill leave that out, because i know its impossible. did you just ever know any person that volunteered to go right into middle of africa and tried to feed the hungry ? note, im not even asking if you did or not, im asking if in your close circle did you have anyone to tell whats going on in there even second hand ?

ill answer for you - you DO NOT. therefore the bastardized "they are hungry for god's sakes" song you are singing out of your cozy armchair has no basis or effect.

get the below facts in your head from those who know before ever speaking again :

- zillions of tons of u.n. aid lands in all the affected countries
- majority of these aid NEVER leave where they land, because they are confiscated by "militia" at the moment they land. aid workers volunteered there are TOLD TO SIT ON THE SACKS OF FLOUR and watch out not to intimidate the incoming militia, because there is nothing else to do.
- militia sells them on the black market. needy rarely sees the food that have made into airport.
- government in those countries are unable to stop the militia, and at least one faction of 'militia' works for the government anyway
- africa social structure except places like senegal, arab-influenced countries, and south africa are still TRIBAL in nature, hence fractured like no society is fractured, and they have long standing enmities between them that go over hundreds of years and more
- therefore tribes prevent each other from getting aid in considerable number of cases, leaving out the fact that they slaughter each other with ak-47s, despite they dont have cash to buy food as a tribe, they do have cash to buy those.
- u.n. is powerless to do anything because the megacorporations of prominent member nations, those who sit in the security council have too much interests that are tied to the puppet dictatorships that are instilled there - those countries u.n. can persuade to send forces in there therefore comes from not proficient countries in regard to military operations, but other african countries that have the similar problems themselves.
- at the wake of this situation the ordinary people have to fend for themselves, and they increasingly encroach on forest and its resources, because its abundant

in this setting the problem is neither drought or monkeys or any other thing. it is the international political situation. there are droughts for a long time in many countries around the world, yet africa is the one to suffer famine. it is easily telling.

and yes, i DO feel bad for 'some monkeys'. those who have the capacity to feel bad, feels bad for creatures in distress, like the villagers.

yet those who has reason and logic, seeks out the solution to REAL problem. just described in above.

linky

[wikinerd]

See ethology of vervets.

Re:linky

[Anonymous Coward]

That site looks like a color blindness test.

PS:

[TapeCutter]

A bit of trivia: The word "Oranghutan" is of native origin, orang = "person", hutan = "forest". ie: "The wild man of Borneo".

Re:PS:

[Sponge Bath]

More trivia: Maurice Evans played the orangutan Dr. Zaius in "Planet of the Apes"
That was wild, man.

Re:PS:

[TapeCutter]

See what I mean....it's those big brown eyes, you can't trust them!

Re:/. crowd utterly fails when it comes to sensiti

[unity100]

and you will come up republican in a few posts after this im sure.

megacorporations build factories and provide employment IN countries that are within the influence of western world, or arab world, or eastern-southeastern hemisphere of power. because these countries and areas, through their international organizations, wield power enough to be effective in what goes in their countries, and their stability and standing tradition makes the power of law applicable

africa is wild west. neither there are ANY nations there that can stand up to one single western country (one stellar example of belgium with its pathetic state after ww2 still being able to affect the fate of various african nations through assasination, manipulation, bribery and incitement through its secret service in the 60s), nor they have any valid and powerful inter-africa organization that can lift its head and say anything against some major western corporation does.

therefore the diamond mining, logging, oil drilling and mining operations done by there are exceedingly self serving, and low in numbers, because you dont have any public there to please with your employment numbers. you suck it dry and let it go, its that easy. there is not a SINGLE african country that western corporations have moved in and has political and social stability. except south africa, but it is an entirely different case.

i suggest you do a little research and get a wider social circle.

Re:/. crowd utterly fails when it comes to sensiti

[synaptic]

> it's either work in a sweat shop for 10c a day, or work the fields till your back breaks or prosititue your body till you die from AIDS. i know which i'd pick.

So how much for a bj?

Fast solution

[SilentGhost]

and why is it not possible to kill them off?

Re:/. crowd utterly fails when it comes to sensiti

[Anonymous Coward]

So how much for a bj?

If you ask unity100 (970058) you'll probably get one for free.

LOL!

[Anonymous Coward]

I came here just to read the (Score:#, Funny)

I think this hit the platinum(Score:5, Funny) mark.

Re:weeeeell welll

[unity100]

no. you were not advocating the rights of the villagers not to starve. you were being a harley davidson hard&tough marlboro man of a gun lover. to prevent villagers from starving you need to employ reason, and find the real cause. because if monkeys are averted in this case, they will be just replaced by a local "militia" that is "confiscating" the crops. and that wont make the news in neither kenya, nor slashdot.

Re:/. crowd utterly fails when it comes to sensiti

[SirSmiley]

No offence but being alongside the military, I can say that many of my coworkers do own harleys and are part of hunting clubs on the base, gobble gobble!

"It's funny. Laugh". Assholes

[1u3hr]

"The predominantly farming community is now having to receive famine relief food. The residents report that the monkeys have killed livestock and guard dogs, which has also left the villagers living in fear, especially for the safety of their babies and children."

But they're only black African savages, so it's "funny".

Re:"It's funny. Laugh". Assholes

[Mike Van Pelt]

"The predominantly farming community is now having to receive famine relief food. The residents report that the monkeys have killed livestock and guard dogs, which has also left the villagers living in fear, especially for the safety of their babies and children."

But they're only black African savages, so it's "funny".

If I had mod points today, I'd mod this "Insightful".

My suggestion would be to send the villagers some "Wrist Rocket" type slingshots. Or maybe pepper spray. If enough monkeys associate human dwellings with serious pain, they'll stay away.

Failing that, selection pressure works. None of you fluffy-bunny "Aw, don't hurt the poor cute widdle furry monkeys" types have ever seen your children go hungry because the "cute widdle furry monkeys" destroyed your crops.

And, I think 1u3hr is absolutely correct; a lot of it is racism in its purest form with a very thin transparent gloss of "environmentalism" on top. A lot of people masquerading as enlightened modern folks just like animals better than they like <insert racist slur here>.

Re:"It's funny. Laugh". Assholes

[Anonymous Coward]

Savages? No. Savages would've been firing up the barbecue the moment the monkeys started pointing at their womens' breasts.

They're domestics - domesticated to a fault. Can't hurt the monkeys! Our government, which doesn't give a damn, says so! We should all starve to death instead! Civilization is great! Woo!

There's something to be said for the old days, when men would kill men over an inconsequential tax on tea, instead of cowering in their huts in fear of monkeys.

Re:"It's funny. Laugh". Assholes

[ChrisMaple]

I've been shooting squirrels on my bird feeder with a BB gun. It causes them enough pain that they make a huge jump and run off fast. Then they come back, and I shoot them again. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Maybe pain will work with monkeys, but it sure doesn't with squirrels.

FWIW, I finally made a physical barrier big and slippery enough to thwart the squirrels.

Re:"It's funny. Laugh". Assholes

[Anonymous Coward]

They're starving people? :|
They're endangering babies? :\

They're killing dogs!?!?!? NUKE THEM!!!!

Re:"It's funny. Laugh". Assholes

[m50d]

Dude, it's the internet. If you think we wouldn't laugh at the same thing happening to white people, well, you must be new here.

Re:"It's funny. Laugh". Assholes

[SysPig]

Oh, for mod points and a "retarded" option...I'll have to settle for tossing a virtual poo in your general direction.

Here's a clue, nimrod - the jokes aren't about the Africans. Ther're about the farkin' monkeys.

By your logic, the same jokes would be made if humans were attacking them and taking over their land. Or, perhaps you're suggesting we'd be having a serious conversation if monkeys were attacking white folks.

Re:"It's funny. Laugh". Assholes

[Phoe6]

You make sense. Enough of laugh, this is some thing serious guys. If you have come till hear laughing all the while, just ponder and think about what could be a good solution. Hope the kenyan wildlife society people find it and save the villagers the misery.

Re:"It's funny. Laugh". Assholes

[eeyoredragon]

It has nothing to do with them being "black savages", but thanks for bringing race into it. It's funny, because it's absurd. Did you laugh at Pulp Fiction? Oh, you're an asshole. Or maybe you just don't appreciate dark comedy. "That's a movie!" ? I've laughed at situations that hurt me and almost got me killed due the situation's aburdity. That's because I have this thing some people refer to as a "sense of humor".

So, yes, it's funny. I'm still chuckling at some of these posts. And guess what, I'm in full agreeance with the people saying the monkies should be shot. They should be, beyond a doubt in my eyes. I'd have done it way before now were I in their position and had the means.

Wilziak was funny too, despite its naysayer. I'd be laughing my ass off as the whale began his doomed journey to the moon while I tried my damnedest to save him.

Anyhow, if it makes you feel good about yourself to be everyone's Jimminy Cricket knock yourself out, but here's your "wet blanket": your moral diatribe doesn't do a damn thing for the poor people you're referring to. Life sucks doesn't it? Feel better?

Re:"It's funny. Laugh". Assholes

[argStyopa]

I promise to laugh the next time a white community is sexually terrorized by monkeys.

There, do you feel better? I'm sure you can go to politically correct heaven now.

Re:"It's funny. Laugh". Assholes

[1u3hr]

It's funny, because it's absurd. Did you laugh at Pulp Fiction? Oh, you're an asshole.

Pulp Fiction was "fiction". This is real. There is a difference between laughing at the Three Stooges taking a pratfall, and a real person falling and cracking their head. One is an appropriate response, one is being an asshole.

Re:"It's funny. Laugh". Assholes

[1u3hr]

I promise to laugh the next time a white community is sexually terrorized by monkeys.

The "sexual terrorization" was all you noticed about this story? People's crops being destroyed and fear of their children being hurt? Not funny, ignored.

Re:"It's funny. Laugh". Assholes

[eeyoredragon]

Thanks for not reading my whole post :) *clap*

Re:"It's funny. Laugh". Assholes

[1u3hr]

The rest of your post? You insulted me about four times, so in response to that: Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you and fuck you.

OK?

Re:"It's funny. Laugh". Assholes

[Draek]

ah, the old days, when men killed men over inconsequential tax on teas, and nearly drove the American Bison out to extinction just because they wanted to piss off the native-americans. Kinda like what they're trying to prevent here, btw.

Re:/. crowd utterly fails when it comes to sensiti

[unity100]

its not the toughness or rebel, hardy composition that is harmful, it is the lack of sensitivity and care.

like comparing paladins to mongol raiders.

Overkill.

[mosb1000]

So, you want to use buck shot to kill a little monkey? I suppose you must hunt deer with a rocket launcher.

Re:Overkill.

[danlock4]

Overkill is probably better than underkill. (No puns intended, btw.)

Source, source, where are thou...

[trifish]

At first I thought this was a scam or a joke. But then I noticed the source at the bottom of the article. And it is one of the most credible news sources there is: BBC.

It would have been better if the article linked to that, rather than to some, at least to me, rather obscure blogger.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6959209.stm

Re:Source, source, where are thou...

[Chryana]

My thoughts exactly. The only thing this blogger adds to the content of the BBC article is some wild speculation that the monkeys could somehow transmit HIV to the villagers. I don't think the editorialism that he makes at the end of the article is tasteful or appropriate.

Re:Source, source, where are thou...

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder who was the idiot who moderated the parent post as Offtopic? Relevant comments on the CREDIBILITY of the submission are very On-topic, at least for the sane of us. Hopefully, metamods will take care of you, "moderator".

Re:Source, source, where are thou...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's called blogspam. Digg has a lot of it.

Fearmongery

[tsa]

And a nice article was f***** up by the last sentences: Also, didn't HIV originate in the sooty mangabey (also known as the green monkey), Chlorocebus aethiops, which is a close relative of the vervet monkey? It kind of makes you wonder what might happen to the people if enough of them are bitten or .. otherwise abused .. by these monkeys?

Why the fearmongery?

I for one

[F4_W_weasel]

welcome you evil monkeys overlords...

well, don't shoot, just poison the crops. period.

Re:I for one

[dkoulomzin]

Way to go! First "I for one!"

Re:I for one

[dosquatch]

Hey, I am an evil monkey overlord, you insensitive clod!

Well, I'm some sort of evil furry primate, anyway.

Re:I for one

[F4_W_weasel]

Welcome!

More than the average number of arms?

[bangzilla]

"The monkeys grab their breasts, and gesture at us while pointing at their private parts...."
So by my count that's two (2) hands to grab breasts, one (1) hand to gesture and one (1) hand to point at the privates. Total four (4) hands per monkey. Do these magical monkeys fly too?

Re:More than the average number of arms?

[Anonymous Coward]

These are monkeys. They're creatures quite capable of pointing or grabbing with their feet. Four hands sounds about right, actually :-)

Re:Its EVOLUTION - geez

[Anonymous Coward]

More than half of the vetoes in the history of the UN Security Council have been cast by the pre-fall Soviet Union.

Ah, yes. The old "We're not as bad as the Soviets so we're the best. woo!"

The majority of the vetoes cast by the US have been against resolutions condemning Israel in matters of self-defense.

Not only factually incorrect but "self defense" is such an easy phrase to twist. By your hawkish standards, invading Iraq was probably "Self defense"

The US uses the UN as a political tool to punish the despots formerly supported by the US who suddenly go completely batshit crazy and cease being the obedient puppies they were supposed to be.

Call the feminists...

[Dramacrat]

Wait, I thought there was absolutely no difference between males and females?

Can't harm them or kill them?

[Xest]

1. Make a big god damn cage and stick them in it
2. Tell travel agents about massive trapped killer monkey cage
3. ...
4. Profit

This is MADNESS!

[kaizokuace]

This is KENYA!!!

Re:This is MADNESS!

[kidcharles]

The proper phrase is TIA: This is Africa

Re:Its EVOLUTION - geez

[Loligo]

Ah, yes. The old "We're not as bad as the Soviets so we're the best. woo!"

No, just a counter to "the US vetoes EVERYTHING"... well, no, actually, the US doesn't. In fact, the Soviets have vetoed more by themselves than all four other permanent members of the security council combined. THAT was my point.

Not only factually incorrect but "self defense" is such an easy phrase to twist.

Go take a look at what the US has actually vetoed. Most of them have been resolutions calling for the condemnation of Israel.

You're right, "self defense" is easy to twist, how dare I suggest that Israel have a right to exist and respond to unprovoked attacks by neighbors and terrorists. I'm such a neo-con hawk bastard.

  -l

I you read the article....

[blind biker]

you'd notice that these animals show signs of some kind of organisation - they have a designated watch/guard, who won't be eating that time, but will provide valuable protection to the rest of the group, and warn when humans approach. I think this is amazing.

Then, they throw stones - that is, they realized they can use an object as a weapon.

I tend to conclude that they have, somehow, evolved. Which is fascinating, or horrifying, depending on your POW. Now, I don't claim to be particularly noble of heart, and if a monkey started attacking me or throwing stones at me, I'd certainly breat its (his?) neck, but it doesn't escape me the fact that these animals might be extremely valuable. Maybe, perhaps, the most valuable biological (and anthropological) find of all times.

Re:I you read the article....

[Anonymous Coward]

you'd notice that these animals show signs of some kind of organisation - they have a designated watch/guard, who won't be eating that time, but will provide valuable protection to the rest of the group, and warn when humans approach. I think this is amazing.

Then, they throw stones - that is, they realized they can use an object as a weapon.

I tend to conclude that they have, somehow, evolved. Which is fascinating, or horrifying, depending on your POW. Now, I don't claim to be particularly noble of heart, and if a monkey started attacking me or throwing stones at me, I'd certainly breat its (his?) neck, but it doesn't escape me the fact that these animals might be extremely valuable. Maybe, perhaps, the most valuable biological (and anthropological) find of all times.

+1 for the interesting thought, but warfare is well known in monkey/chimp culture. As an observer it is interesting, but as a participant it would really suck man. It is we who are evolving rapidly hopefully beyond the concept of warfare, leaving the chimps behind, thus this kind of conflict will inevitably arise, it is how we handle it that defines us as a species, not them.

Now provisions for reasonable force in self defense from wild animals of course has a place in any environmental protections. In the case of these monkeys it should be easy, they're smart enough to learn to stay away. Should the monkeys have nowhere to go, then the question is more complicated. Perhaps a limited cull for the meantime and government incentives and support to move the locals over the long term.

Or they could make lemons into lemonade and turn the sexually abusive monkeys into a tourist attraction... there is probably a market for that sort of thing these days. Extra hush money fees would apply.

But seriously, the way we are going, we will fill all the livable space on this sphere in the foreseeable future and this kind of thing will happen more and more. There will be some tough decisions.

Re:I you read the article....

[grumling]

Then, they throw stones - that is, they realized they can use an object as a weapon.

Poo has been used by the monkeys as a weapon for centuries.

Re:I you read the article....

[knewter]

You think a monkey throwing stuff at people is proof of active evolution? What the heck happened to scientific reasoning? Just because you were told that humans were the tool users doesn't mean you should ignore that throwing things is pretty much any monkey's favorite pastime, and they're really intelligent as animals go anyway. I'm so sick of people saying things that make no sense and thinking they're being scientific, geezus.

Vervet?

[Anonymous Coward]

I see you misspelled 'pervert'.

Now...

[Anonymous Coward]

..if these were flying monkeys.....

New TV show

[Poromenos1]

To catch a herbivore?

Chimp in Chief

[BillGatesLoveChild]

I heard this story on the BBC. They said the Monkeys also pointed at their heads telling the villages they are smarter than them. Like moneys understand anatomy that well? In which case the supposed conclusion remains the same

Hmm... Critters making their life hell. Government tells the people they're not allowed to shoot. Now I wonder, how would an *American* solve this? ;-)

Re:Chimp in Chief

[Anonymous Coward]

"Now I wonder, how would an *American* solve this? ;-)"
'
We Americans would solve the problem by sending in the military bomb their forest and then impose 'democracy' on the monkeys. We would force them to elect a new leader and a new constitution that would prohibit harassing people. The president would make a big 'Mission Accomplished' speech. Then we would capture any miss-behaving monkeys and force them into sexually explicit positions and take pictures.

Re:Chimp in Chief

[Geminii]

They'd re-elect the critters.

I think you got that wrong

[transporter_ii]

The monkeys are actually doing INTER SPECIES erotica.

Transporter_ii

Shoot them, yes

[Leo Sasquatch]

but with an air rifle or BB gun. .177 target pellet won't kill them, hell it probably won't even break the skin, but it will sting like a son-of-a-bitch. No expensive cartridges to buy, and 500 pellets won't break the bank.

All else fails, ship out some 1/4 inch surgical rubber tubing and show the villagers how to make catapults. Better accuracy and more sting than simply throwing the stones.

Re:Mmo`d down

[ozmanjusri]

Good idea.

That'd be the nastiest scarecrow ever. No way a monkey'd hang around after seeing that.

Re:Its EVOLUTION - geez

[Anonymous Coward]

No, just a counter to "the US vetoes EVERYTHING"... well, no, actually, the US doesn't. In fact, the Soviets have vetoed more by themselves than all four other permanent members of the security council combined. THAT was my point.

So you're not as bad as the Soviets. You're the best. woo!

Go take a look at what the US has actually vetoed. Most of them have been resolutions calling for the condemnation of Israel.

They do nothing of the sort and I suggest you take a look at the wording of the resolutions yourself as you're obviously using the trite old "I'm too lazy to make accurate comments so I'll tire you out by having you do my research for me" tactic.

You are incorrect.

how dare I suggest that Israel have a right to exist and respond to unprovoked attacks by neighbors and terrorists

You're not. You're using sound-bite defenses that wingnut millenarian US Christian "conservatives" always counter any criticism of Israel with.

How many palestinians were killed in, say, 2006 by IDF attacks? How many Israelis have been killed by all their enemies combined? Israel employs torture, collective punishment, racist legislation, suspension of habeus corpus, suspension of property rights, frequent attacks on people, installations and population centers in other countries (even as far away as assassinations in Norway) and it even does so at the complete discretion of military commanders. No court of law, no process remotely resembling our, frankly, superior democratic systems is involved.

And the US uses the UN as a tool to condone this behavior.

Pepper Spray?

[Guppy]

How about arming the women with pepper spray? I'm pretty sure it will work as well as it does on human perverts, monkeys will have similar pain receptors. And since most likely the villagers don't have the market access to such items on a routine basis, perhaps some habanero pepper seeds and sprayers would allow them to come up with some sort of homebrew solution.

Re:Its EVOLUTION - geez

[Light_Wong]

Hey...

Go read a book entitled The Road to Hell: The Ravaging Effects of Foreign Aid and International Charity by Maren. He was a man who spent years in Africa working for NGO's, and he talks candidly about the ineffectual programs, the assholes who ran them and the reasons these programs resulted in no net benefit for the people they were purported to help. The reasons included corruption, theft and the general ignorance of the young idealistic westerners who came with a complete lack of perspective on Africa, it's assets liabilities or requirements. It was not as you seem to IMAGINE.

Also, look up the fact that CARE recently announced cessation of the acceptance of donations of food from the U.S. Food Aid program. This is because the tax dollars, which subsidize surplus production of agricultural commodities, depress prices both here and abroad. In the U.S. we perceive the benefits as cheap (low-quality) food, but in countries like Kenya, Somalia and Ethiopia, where the food staples are dumped on their markets at artificially low prices by NGO's like CARE the result is that local African farmers can't make a market or a living from their own crops. They can't even cover the cost of production, let alone make a profit. The system perpetuates poverty and dependence on hand-outs. No markets develop, no jobs are sustained, and the cycle is repeated.

And what good does low-cost, high-fructose corn syrup based sugary crap do for your health anyway? Nothing. What relative benefit does cheap vitamin-deficient processed white rice bring to you? Certainly it is less that of the brown rice, the quinoa or the millet you could be eating. Perhaps while you are lounging around collecting SSI benefits and supplementing your pancreatic failure, you'll have time to read about the theory of free market capitalism or even begin to appreciate the difference between what you believe to be good and right and that which your super-power government foists on the world. (See: Confessions of an Ecnonmic Hitman by Perkins or Fiasco by Ricks)

Aside from all that, I believe the monkeys have every right to communicate their displeasure and flip the bird at all of humanity. We are over-populating the land, threatening the existence of the rest of the natural world and hogging an unsustainable and growing majority of every natural resource required by life in general. If the monkeys continue to develop their capacity for communication, perhaps they will convey the U.N. about their needs. I have the feeling that it would have more to do with curtailing all the extremist violence of mankind and telling us to back off from our incredibly short-sighted, polluting and wasteful ways than with the ineffectual efforts development Africa's artificial fiat-money-based economies. And they wouldn't be alone. The Vervets could speak for the poor marginalized humans in the slums of civilization, too.

BTW, what's a "zillion?" Is that the requisite number of Hail Mary's that God will make all the know-nothing "Christians" write on the blackboard of intergalactic nothingness before they get to ask St. Peter why they are still in Purgatory after their first eternity waiting for someone to pray for their soul? Or is it your best guess regarding the likely magnitude of our collective cosmic fuck-up here on the paradise formerly known as Earth?

"What do you think of Western Civilization," asked the reporter? "I think it would be a good idea!"
-- Mohandas Karamchand "Mahatma" Gandhi

Re:/. crowd utterly fails when it comes to sensiti

[Gulthek]

...reason that there is famine in african countries are megacorporations that screw the hell outta them through installed puppet dictators, and the roadside gangs and thugs seizing the food aid thats being sent there as a result. NOT MONKEYS OR DROUGHT.

So you argue that their only food supply is food which is given to them? That drought has zero effect on their food supply? Do you have any idea of how farming works? Where do you think your food comes from? A fairy field full of magic?

yay praise for those of you you gun-owning, harley-driving, badass-wannabee excuses of evolution, that post those morondom, those who ever did not see what actualy "badassness" in a real military service while being trained to kill. maybe we should shoot you instead first, to aid mankind's evolution

You also seem to have a slightly off concept of how evolution works. There are no 'wannabee excuses of evolution'. Every single one of us is a last link in a chain of ancestry going back millions of years. Every single one of our direct ancestors if ever given the choice between the death of their line and the death of another's, choose themselves and their descendants. Given the choice between them eating enough to survive and killing the animals stealing their food, the choice is easy.

Of course, to me, it seems that the group has been placed in a situation that requires social evolution, if they are capable of it. The solution is obviously that the men (who the monkeys are afraid of) should work the fields and the women should do whatever the men do.

The monkeys of Kenya: Scene 21

[JimDaGeek]

Slashdot's lame filter kicked in, so here you go.

Not unique

[Faux_Pseudo]

This isn't as unique as the article makes it out to be. Male dolphins will frequently try to molest humans. If they had opposable thumbs, or even arms for that matter, they would probably sexually harass humans too.

Retaliate, D'uh

[i_is_locus]

So, um, some monkey is competing with 'US'?
Yeah. Us, Humans, not africans, or americans, or any one group, all.
Once this has all played out, We will win.
Thats how We as a race started pretty much, We competed with others, and won. We'll either; Kill 'em - That'll learn 'em for getting smart, or; Move them some where, maybe try and study them, wonder why their behaviour has changed.

That kinda sucks really, that once we started no one else had/has a chance.

The sad part is, they weren't always evil....

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h_lfnZzJGY

Re:Spurious Logic. . .please mod up

[jbengt]

This is the best post so far, but I lost the ability to mod it up by replying to an earlier thread.

Re:When shit walks.

[Anonymous Coward]

So when did they move New Orleans to Georgia? I thought it was in Louisiana? I knew Katrina was bad, but I didn't know it threw the entire city into a different state. Wow! The power of mother nature!

Simple Solution

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Get able bodied Male
2. Brainwash said male with thoughts of "Your mom/sister/wife will starve to death, something must be done"
3. Male volunteers to "take one for the team" and kill as many monkeys as he can
4. Male is convicted(but he already accepted this fate) for killing the monkeys
5. Monkeys get that "oh shit" feeling
6. Repeat as necessary
7. Profit

Mod this up

[KenSeymour]

The situation starts making a lot more sense after you read the parent's link.

Kenyan Woman Says:

[morari]

"Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty monkey!"

Pervervet

[Doc Ruby]

vervet monkeys in Kenya are sexually harassing the women

You misspelled "pervert".

Monkeys Harassing Kenyans?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can anyone tell me the difference between a monkey and a Kenyan anyway? The line seem kind of blurry...

The monkeys have the upper hand here

[Alt4Animals]

The monkeys have two weapons at their disposal, that will be most difficult to overcome: 1. Fear, the biggest. The women are scared of them, so arming them with sticks or even guns won't work. Once the monkeys learned the fear factor, they became emboldened, purely learned behavior. They'd easily bluff their way past a few frightened women brandishing sticks. 2. Government protection. While many have commented that they can get around this, the people involved are unlikely to contradict the law. See #1. And really, "sexual harassment?" Please. I think the monkeys just learned, again through experience, that certain gestures created more fearful retreats in the women than others, so they adopted these gestures as a workable tool to get to the goal.

Re:The monkeys have the upper hand here

[macdaddy357]

Here we come
Walkin' down the street
We get the funniest looks from
Everyone we meet...

Re:/. crowd utterly fails when it comes to sensiti

[Anonymous Coward]

A wider social circle? Perhaps you should take your own advice and hang out with someone who isn't a whiny, angst-filled, self-loathing yuppie. Oh, and they do make medicine to help people like you these days. It's called Prozac.

They're monkeys.

[technopinion]

"The monkeys grab their breasts, and gesture at us while pointing at their private parts. We are afraid that they will sexually harass us," said Njeri."

Is that any different than the way the men of the village act after a couple of beers? They should be used to it. And maybe that's what the monkeys do to each-other too. I mean c'mon, they're monkeys.

Evil monkeys!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like another Sony experiment gone to shit...

Society is the cause

[Anonymous Coward]

I blame it on rap lyrics.

Re:/. crowd utterly fails when it comes to sensiti

[MikeTheMan]

i know which i'd pick.

Does it start with "prostitute your body" and end with "AIDS"?

Scientific journalism at its finest

[Anonymous Coward]

Just give the women and kids BB guns and slingshots and they won't have a monkey problem any more.

Why am I not surprised

[Anonymous Coward]

Why am I not surprised that first contact with an alien culture involves porn and is reported on Slashdot?

Send in the ultimate weapon.

[rspress]

Send in Rosie O'Donnell to work the fields, if the monkeys still want to hit that there may be no stopping them. Either that or send in some guys to hit on the monkey females while their mates are out cruising for the locals.

Why is this so hard?

[confused one]

I don't see why everyone makes this an issue. They're attacking and killing livestock. They've killed the dogs. They're destroying the crops. They're threatening the people physically and by destroying the crops they risk casuing a famine.

People > monkey.

They are at best a nuisance and at worst a danger to the population there. If the people built a village inside a wildlife preserve and are where they should not be, move the people. Otherwise, go in with tranq. guns, capture all (or most) of the monkeys and relocate them to where they will do no harm. Or, if you prefer use real guns and put an end to it.

Not just in Africa...

[Anonymous Coward]

My back garden is being invaded by squirrels. They strip the nut trees and avoid being caught by learning my behaviour patterns.

And there are more urban foxes than ever before, as well as woodland birds and even migratory birds, never before seen in my garden.

But then I balance this against the knowledge that Greater London is losing ever more green land to development.

That article took a very anthropocentric viewpoint, didn't it? Are humans encroaching on wilderness? Are vervet monkeys suffering loss of habitat? WAS IT EVEN MENTIONED?

Nope, it's far more sensational to provide anecdotes about sexual harrassment. Troubling our women? Kill 'em all! Because humans are really in danger of extinction, pushed back by a relentless increase in wilderness.

Re:Not just in Africa...

[Anonymous Coward]

Solution: over the next century turn Kenya into a prosperous megalopolis with industrial farming, then fence the monkeys out. Take THAT, monkey!

Simple solution

[kb0hae]

Loke the song says...Shock the Monkey(s)!

3 Words

[Anonymous Coward]

Chilled Monkey Brains

300 MONKEYS!

[Yvan256]

Would've been even funnier with the title above... Especially given the fact that they say "300 monkeys" in the article.

So help them evolve...

[Anonymous Coward]

You were obviously being sarcastic, but why not teach the monkeys to farm? We have taught them how to use other tools in captivity. They clearly realize what is going on in those fields even if they do not realize how the food gets there in the first place; they probably have even picked up on the pattern of "now the people are working on the land with no food--soon there will be food there." This could be the most important experiment in evolution we have ever had the opportunity to participate in. I see 2 approaches:

1. Be friendly to the monkeys during the planting season. Get them interested in what you are doing by showing them the seeds and teaching them how to plant them in a smaller field of land next to the villagers' farmland ("we do this here; you can do this there"). Bring the monkeys back out to water the plants when needed (again by showing a friendly "look, you can do this, too"). When it's harvest time, they will see that their food came from the place where they were repeating the villagers' actions. I'd be willing to bet that monkeys near that village would start learning to farm from their own species without the need for human interaction within a generation or two.
2. Take the same approach as #1, but don't separate the crops. Instead, increase the amount of food the village produces to include what the monkey's need. Teach the monkeys to work the field alongside the villagers, doing as much work as they can get them to do. I'm not suggesting that they make "slaves" out of the monkeys or mistreat them in any way; rather, leverage their intelligence (and opposable thumbs) for farm work just as we would any other animal's strength (such as a horse or donkey).

Re:/. crowd utterly fails when it comes to sensiti

[Anonymous Coward]

If only I were smart enough to understand that when monkeys steal food from people who then don't have enough food to eat, its the fault of corporations! Stop blaming those innocent monkeys! Besides, only a caveman would want to kill a creature that's causing his family to starve. Intelligent, modern men write protest letters to global corporations instead.

My thoughts exactly

[cryptochrome]

Peppers are easy to grow too, they could make their own. Show 'em who's at the top of the food chain.

Re:My thoughts exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

>Peppers are easy to grow too
Brian Peppers aren't.

Kill them. End of story.

[grikdog]

Eight million years of successful non-coexistence with near-human ogres, orcs, gremlins, gnomes, leprechauns and banshees isn't about to go down in ignominy because of a bunch of limits-testing furry imps. Stake out a few of their ugly pre-shrunken heads. They'll un-learn. Seriously, ffolkes, is this the origin of internecine human bigotry? The Pleistocene echoes are downright eldritch.

not a quick fix but effective....

[Wiseblood1]

Y'know a pistol for the ladies would work.... Easier to carry as well as pull out to shoot..... Sure it wont discourage the whole group (?at first...?), but I have never seen anything that was shot in the face that wasnt discouraged from further attempts (whether it was alive or not) all those in agreement say aye.

Uhm, no...

[absurdist]

He's saying if you want to kill the monkey (rather than simply cripple or maim) you need to use the right hardware.

Re:Uhm, no...

[mosb1000]

I appreciate the sentiment, but buckshot will turn the monkey into blood splat, that kind of force is completely unnecessary. Bird shot should be more than adequate. Besides, one would assume that maiming or crippling the monkey would certainly be sufficient to stop it from going after your food. You don't want to use a larger weapon, because you don't want to kill someone accidentally.

Here's a suggestion...

[jkosturko]

12 guage pump...
2 3/4" #4 shot...
(mysterious third step)
monkey problem BLAM! gone!

why is this so frickin complicated?

Re:Its EVOLUTION - geez

[unity100]

what i learnt about africa, i learnt from my enthusiasm for history reading, and from those people i once knew, who actually volunteered and went to africa to work in the aid programs and did so.

however right your, and care's assessment about the aids destroying creation of a working economy there may be, you still cant leave people to die out of hunger during the transition period. hungry mouths must be fed.

i agree about your excerpt about monkeys.

a zillion is a fantastic exaggerration that conveys what one is trying to stress.

That monkey behavior does not show intelligence.

[Anonymous Coward]

I read the article. The monkey behaviour that the "victims" describe is not sexual. Breast-beating is territorial display. Breast-grabbing (their OWN breasts - duh) is just a minor variant of breast beating. Even if a single monkey did grab on woman's breasts, it doesn't represent any pattern or intelligence. Although it still trumps Anonymous Cowardly ranting. If a monkey attacks a person then it's bound to grab something. Crotch-grabbing and pointing is random and natural for males for millions of years - there is no intelligence required for self-gratification.

Shoot the troublemakers - that's evolution at work.

Re:/. crowd utterly fails when it comes to sensiti

[unity100]

well, my father being an agricultural engineer and having to take me out to field trips during summer, i had seen fair share of farming even more than i would ever want in a lifetime.

drought affects the situation indeed. in fact it is one of the major causes of the situation. yet, its not the cause that makes the situation as bad as it is now - famine. for example there is crop shortage in turkey this year too. yet, food prices are not going up, or nobody is going to starve. however in africa, even in a small economy that would have been invigorated by just a small piece of funds flowing in as credits to the right business fields, things are not shaping up nomatter what you do.

You also seem to have a slightly off concept of how evolution works. There are no 'wannabee excuses of evolution'. Every single one of us is a last link in a chain of ancestry going back millions of years. Every single one of our direct ancestors if ever given the choice between the death of their line and the death of another's, choose themselves and their descendants. Given the choice between them eating enough to survive and killing the animals stealing their food, the choice is easy.

i have made a lengthy post about this earlier, and am not willing to go over the entire text. ill just link here : http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=279525 &threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=2035226 1#20352545

Re:/. crowd utterly fails when it comes to sensiti

[unity100]

lets see,

monkeys are starting to just develop inter species communication, we have been doing it for over a long time with domesticated animals.

aand, humans are able to examine cause-effect relationships in an abstract plane and find out the first instigator of a chain of events.

yep, that says that opposing the initial instigator of the event is a responsibility of a more evolved being.

Re:/. crowd utterly fails when it comes to sensiti

[unity100]

oargh yea, maybe i should just go out and hang out with a local motorcycle gang and be a gun-toting, trigger happy blunt badass wannabee.

Proof that liberal policies cause rampant crime

[Torodung]

Aw gee, we've abolished the "death penalty" for these monkeys? Fine. Do what women should always do to human men when they make nasty gestures...

KICK THEM IN THE NUTS

Believe me, launch a few of these puppies 20 feet skyward with a punt to the beanbag, and at least you'll only have the females coming after you. ;^P

--
Toro
(thanks for the laugh... ;^) )

A not so distant warning from Joe Dante

[Anonymous Coward]

GREMLINS !!!!

Two Comments

[Master of Transhuman]

Send them Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan. That should stop it.

Also reminds me of Andrea Corr's comment when she was filming the movie "Broken Thread" in the Himalayas. She said there were bold monkeys up there that will sneak into your room and "steal your computer."

So the next problem we're gonna have is monkeys posting on /,!

Of course, they'll all be using Windows...

Welcome

[NynexNinja]

I for one welcome our evil monkey overlords.

Re:Welcome

[Anonymous Coward]

Based on your other comments, you seem intelligent. So why do you think this is still funny?

Planet of the Apes

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't this from the plot of one of the Planet of the Apes sequels?

I can't claim this as original

[qzulla]

As it came from the linked article but it does seem like a great solution:

My thought is get some goggles, some good super soaker squirt guns, and grow some scotch bonnet peppers.

The monkeys won't touch the peppers because they're hot as hell. so you chop em up and mix them in with squirt gun water. Poor mans pepper spray.

Infinite free ammo, cheap weapon, very very unhappy and undamaged monkey.

qz

Uhm...does anyone have guns, there?

[WheelDweller]

It's funny, sure...but is this any different than a scarecrow, or plastic owl near a small garden? Do we _have_ to stop and form focus groups as to what _we_ perceive (today) of the situation.

Just do it!

And while you're at it, start spraying DDT; it's not dangerous when handled properly and will stop the annual deaths of 300,000 poor people to malaria every year. (Or, you can have France sell them mosquito nets.)

Yeah, off-topic, but too bad. The third world is being raped by the 'enlightened' EU, and it's just not fair. These people need freedom, food, education, and the rest of us to give a damn.

to paraphrase David Brin

[onion_joe]

in his novel "Earth,":

There are no starving environmentalists.

Being assimilated by the slashdot hive mind.

[ichigo 2.0]

I clicked that link and got disappointed when it wasn't Ballmer raving on about developers. :P

Ever read Darwin Awards?

[SanityInAnarchy]

Look, I realize this is a sad situation, and some people are starving, but...

I reserve the right to laugh at hilarious situations, even -- especially -- when they are a matter of life and death.

Take the kid who played videogames for some 3 days straight, no breaks at all, till he actually died -- yeah, it sucks to have someone die, and if I'd known the guy, I'd be sad. But it's still funny as hell.

Where to start.

[Mal-2]

I'd start by killing monkeys that harassed me or my family, regardless of any laws. Then I'd start defending people outside my family the same way, and assisting others in taking up the same cause. By the time news of this spread to "law enforcement", the whole village should be united in the cause. Maybe they get me but the village lives on, or, more likely, the village would be willing to provide some form of protection.

Hopefully, the BBC would still be reporting.

Mal-2

kill the squatters

[Anonymous Coward]

And by how much has the population of squatters on the monkeys' land grown during this time? There. You see it's not the monkeys that are the problem.

Extreme Discouragement

[Nom du Keyboard]

None of the attempts to discourage the monkeys has so far worked.

Have you tried shooting them? This is, after all, a matter of survival.

Guns

[eatont9999]

Yeah, monkeys being crude and annoying. If only you guys knew my most recent office fudge up involving me: The_Monkey. I PO'ed VMWare on their video contest with some demoralizing comments. Come on guys, you know it was funny! Anyhow, I have put some long hours into researching the Kenya monkey problem. I have concluded that the best solution involves a 30-06 or 50 Cal. rifle. Yes, it is surprisingly effective at deterring attacks from the local monkeys. As with any logical and plausible solution there is one negative aspect: the mess. On the occasion, after firing the rifle at a monkey, the targeted monkey has a tendency to "explode," if you will. However, the majority of the remnants can be swept and dabbed away with a wet sponge. I don't expect any praise or special recognition for resolving this most controversial and pressing issue of humanity. I merely am satisfied knowing I have helped fellow human beings. Ever sincerely, The_Monkey.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

How about a rifle?

[olivercromwell]

Ooops, I forgot, Kenya disarmed its people. I few dead monkeys due to a boom stick might work. Alas, the Kenyan government adoptedd the UN disarmament program, and decided its people ought not to have guns. Unintended consequences I am sure.

Planet of the Apes

[Dan541]

The Revolution has started!

Re:The real debate here...

[Kaenneth]

Well, when I typed the 'drop them in the dictators compound' bit, I was thinking about Kirk, Tribbles, and Klingons.

Fanciful Story

[Pooua]

I can understand monkeys swarming farms for food. I accept monkeys harassing people. But when someone claims that monkeys point to their (own) breasts and private areas in an attempt to communicate, I see someone's over-active imagination getting the better of him. No way, guys; not unless someone spent a lot of time and effort training the monkeys to do this.

Re:Its EVOLUTION - geez

[Pooua]

Instead of making the extraordinary jump without evidence that monkeys suddenly have the ability to communicate linguistic attacks on humans, you ought to consider the far more likely possibility that the villagers have let their imaginations get the better of them. Even the possibility that someone actually trained the monkeys to do this is more likely than the monkeys evolving the sense to do it on their own.

Re:Its EVOLUTION - geez

[unity100]

that is also possible. but we were discussing the earlier option.

This is just the beginning...

[subnomine]

I think we will be hearing more about odd animal behavior in the near future. The animal world IS changing...I recommend you watch Planet Earth BBC (last disk about Conservation). (60 Minutes recently had a bit on Global Warming, and keep your eyes out for The 11th Hour. http://wip.warnerbros.com/11thhour/)

Are they protected species?

[dragisha]

Because then it adds up very well. If they only attacked their food (and that food is grown up in monkey's habitat), it would be poor excuse for extermination of endangered species. So, they (people stealing monkey's habitat) have new angle - sexual harrasment. As no women was ready to testify being raped... it's only "rude gestures" and breast grabbing... What cultural background have monkeys to make "compatible" rude gestures - I don't know, but I have no doubt all this will lead to their extermination.

Damn dirty apes

[Anonymous Coward]

Get your dirty hands off my womans breasts you damn dirty apes.

real solutions

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't mark this as funny, as it is entirely serious. These tasks would probably only have to be carried out until the apes get the picture.

Have a single man accompany the women as a guard.
or
Have the women carry a real gun, doesn't even have to be loaded.
or
Attach electrodes to the women's breasts that causes a shock when squeezed.
or
Have the women carry mace, it works well as a human deterrent, there's no reason to believe it wouldn't also work well on apes.

Wisdom follows, pay attention!

[Anonymous Coward]

Thus spoke the God of Israel, God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob:
"Nor shall a man mount a beast or a woman stand in front of a beast so it mounts her, those are acts of infamy, they shall be killed."

Those monkeys are against the good laws of nature and they shall be exterminated. Just like the residents of Sodoma and Gomorrah, who engaged in romping with beast, they shall be erased with fire.

God explicitly gave the Earths to the first humans, told them to multiply and prosper and to rule over the entire planet and all of its inhabitants.

If the monkeys try to prevent humans from prospering and unnaturally approach them, they shall be killed, be their blood upon them!

Hey monkeys

[Joseph1337]

I`ll give you a wife PLUS A FREE MOTHER IN LAW! Take it, np

No, no...

[be951]

1. Build a factory, mill, whatever (bonus if you're exploiting local resources)
2. Hire villagers to work there very cheaply
3. Profit!
4. Villagers can now buy food (from the company store? Profit! again)

But wait, it gets better...

5. Workers go on strike for better pay and conditions
6. Fire them and replace them with monkeys (we already know they can/will imitate human behavior for food)
7. Profit even more!

not done yet...

8. Villagers or monkeys start causing trouble again...
9. Re-hire villagers at slightly higher wages
10. Invite monkeys to "unemployment office"
11. New business selling vervet McNuggets from building that looks suspiciously like "unemployment office"
12. Profit!

I apologize for posting so late to this thread, but this seemed too good to pass up.