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Cutting-Edge AI Projects?

Xeth writes "I'm a consultant with DARPA, and I'm working on an initiative to push the boundaries of neuromorphic computing (i.e. artificial intelligence). The project is designed to advance ideas all fronts, including measuring and understanding biological brains, creating AI systems, and investigating the fundamental nature of intelligence. I'm conducting a wide search of these fields, but I wanted to know if any in this community know of neat projects along those lines that I might overlook. Maybe you're working on a project like that and want to talk it up? No promises (seriously), but interesting work will be brought to the attention of the project manager I'm working with. If you want to start up a dialog, send me an email, and we'll see where it goes. I'll also be reading the comments for the story."

346 comments

  1. Cyberdyne Systems by ascendant · · Score: 5, Funny

    Just a small company, I'm sure no-one's noticed it.
    Cyberdyne Systems

    --
    Do not attribute to malice that which can be easily explained by incompetence.
    1. Re:Cyberdyne Systems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I hear their stock is on the rise actually.

    2. Re:Cyberdyne Systems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      OK, when the fuck did Slashdot become the literature-reviewer of first resort for these assholes who are too goddamned lazy to do their own research.

      Did he leave an address where we could mail the finished, typeset and bound product to present to his project manager as his own work?

    3. Re:Cyberdyne Systems by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1

      Sorry, this is AI Abuse.
      If you want to have an argument about Integrity in the Sciences, that is to be found next door at http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/23/2157214
      Now begone, Anodized Cowherd!

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    4. Re:Cyberdyne Systems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes just a small robotics company, nothing to be alarmed about...

      http://www.cyberdyne.jp/English/

  2. It it just me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The project is designed to advance ideas all fronts, including measuring and understanding biological brains, creating AI systems, and investigating the fundamental nature of intelligence.

    Why is it that the first application that I can think of for such project developed by DARPA is that to use it against the citizens?
    1. Re:It it just me? by Xeth · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I suspect that any assurances from me will mean little and less (you seem to have a well-defined opinion about what DARPA does and why), I think that the ideas I'm pursuing here are sufficiently general that it would be foolish to shy away from them on grounds that they might be used for some military application. You could say the very same about any advanced computing device.

      --
      If your theory is different from practice, then your theory is wrong.
    2. Re:It it just me? by Anghwyr · · Score: 1

      I intend to move into the field (messing with it small-time on my blog, and about to visit alifexi.org next month), and did some soulsearching about how I'd feel about (perhaps one day) being (partially) rsponsible for AI soldiers fighting something as messy as Iraq. The thought that convinced me was that whilst, yes, I might be creating soldiers, at least these fellows wouldn't be as sensitive to stress as humans, and do things like revenge, murder, rape. It might save life on boths sides of the conflict. Downside is. They're programs. They might be buggy.

    3. Re:It it just me? by I+cant+believe+its+n · · Score: 1

      I think that Skynet should give orders to humans on the battlefield, instead of the other way around.

      That way you have logical commanders (without prestige and a need for revenge) and humans on the ground with the right to moral veto before implementing the orders.

      --
      She made the willows dance
    4. Re:It it just me? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Why is it that the first application that I can think of for such project developed by DARPA is that to use it against the citizens? Why not? Everything else is.
      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    5. Re:It it just me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suspect that any assurances from me will mean little and less (you seem to have a well-defined opinion about what DARPA does and why), I think that the ideas I'm pursuing here are sufficiently general that it would be foolish to shy away from them on grounds that they might be used for some military application. You could say the very same about any advanced computing device. Yes, but your own motives should be questioned here. Are YOU being funded by DARPA? Is their money going into your wallet? Are your grants coming from the Health sciences (the antithesis of DARPA) or from weapons funding? Sure, it all can be used for weapons, but actually getting funding directly from Darpa makes you more accountable, and your words here seem to be rationalization, just like with most scientists who get funding from DARPA (and I've met some dang nice science folks, real liberals, who take money from DARPA and rationalize it, just like you rationalize it). The situation is real: You want money, and DARPA will give it and most likely use it not only to promote American foreign policy through force but also as hush money. That hush money is so huge in grants that it will make scientists like you stop saying any criticisms toward DARPA because it would be unwise to bite the hand that feeds you. Sorry Xeth but you're rationalizing something that needs ethical exploration. I challenge you and all scientists to bring your rationalizations in front of not just one professional philosopher, but a round table and see what they have to say. The bottom line is DARPA puts food on your plate and your issues of survival are over. Oh, if most AI scientists would have the guts to rebel and just help the health sciences or something similar like Education (of course the Grant money isn't plentiful for theoretical AI in education and health, is it?). Yes sure, DARPA will inevitably release technologies to help citizens just like the military program and space program do, but it will also use the technology to kill people, oftentimes with a bad foreign policy agenda. Think long and hard about that when you get your grant money from DARPA. Again, I invite you and all scientists who take money from DARPA to offer your rationalizations to at least a few professional philosophers. I doubt you have the courage, for your rationalizations are comfortable and you can continue on your merry way in life. DARPA has bought almost the entire AI community. Your food is bought by the military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about. Good science does not make good ethicists or good rationalizations for the dinner table.
    6. Re:It it just me? by egomaniac · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Where did you get the idea that humans will veto unjust orders? You might want to read up about the Milgram experiment, or maybe just consider how the Holocaust happened.

      I assure you, the Nazis didn't manage to put together an army of thoroughly evil people -- the vast majority of the Nazis were perfectly ordinary human beings receiving evil orders. We like to think we're different, but that's an incredibly dangerous opinion. It's much better to accept the fact that we are human, and that humans are overly obedient, and not trust ourselves or anyone else to be smart enough to overrule an unjust order.

      --
      ZFS: because love is never having to say fsck
    7. Re:It it just me? by Anivair · · Score: 1

      Because you've been bathed in dystopian sci-fi from youth?

    8. Re:It it just me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the D in DARPA. You liberals know in your own hearts that you are enemies of the country. Your candidate, the Obomination, has been endorsed by terrorists and dictators around the world: Hamas, Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong-il, Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Moammar Qaddafi.

    9. Re:It it just me? by Beezlebub33 · · Score: 1

      Well, what would be nice is to see what program office at DARPA it is, who you are, your CV, etc. What makes you qualified to determine what ideas are cutting edge?

      I suppose that you can say that I'm being too nosy, but it's unlikely that people are going to provide their really cool ideas without some sort of checking up on you.

      --
      The more people I meet, the better I like my dog.
    10. Re:It it just me? by I+cant+believe+its+n · · Score: 1

      Sadly you are quite right. My thought was more of a "how it should be" than a true reflection on human behaviour and what will happen in real society.

      What I meant was actually giving the soldiers on the ground a mandate to think. (I know, I know, then they would not be there). If soldiers are allowed to not follow orders on certain grounds and with an AI/commander giving orders based on logic, less evil would come out of war. If soldiers could document their situation (video camera) they would also stand a chance to refuse.

      ---

      The average nazi soldier did not have the right of veto. I know that there where a lot of people who did what they did because they where true nazis, but the rest of them would be threatened by death if they did not follow orders during war. I believe most armies have similar setups today.

      When I was in the military myself (not volontary where I come from), we heard all this wonderfull talk about the moral duties of the soldier, of being able to refuse to follow imoral orders. The comical thing is that you will be killed if you do not follow orders during war.

      These are two opposing ideas, but it is military newspeak and hence they do not oppose eachother. You will be killed if you do not follow orders during war, and you must oppose imoral orders. Hence you will be killed by your own side when your commander gives you an imoral order. Nothing new really, but to me it always seemed more fair if the guy givning the imoral order was killed.

      The military just ignore the flaws of their logic and once you are dead there is no problem.

      --
      She made the willows dance
  3. Yea, lots by mlwmohawk · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yea, I have lots of ideas and things I've been working on.

    Fund me! :-)

    1. Re:Yea, lots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't you go fund yourself?

      Don't get your hopes up about some mother funder.

  4. DARPA turn to Slashdot? by markybob · · Score: 5, Funny

    If DARPA is now so desperate as to seek out totally random and unknown readers of slashdot...my god the US is screwed.

    1. Re:DARPA turn to Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      "If DARPA is now so desperate as to seek out totally random and unknown readers of slashdot...my god the US is screwed."

      Dont' be an idiot genius and smarts reside in unexpected places. I'm sure many slashdotters have come across some very smart people.

    2. Re:DARPA turn to Slashdot? by edwebdev · · Score: 1

      If DARPA is now so desperate as to seek out totally random and unknown readers of slashdot... ... in a completely open and public forum, no less.
    3. Re:DARPA turn to Slashdot? by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      Yes. Next thing you know they will be running competitions will million dollar prizes.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    4. Re:DARPA turn to Slashdot? by edwebdev · · Score: 1

      Haha, fair enough. I forgot about things like the DARPA Grand Challenge for a second there. And the fact that DARPA funds some of the chemistry research I'm doing. Sorry DARPA.

    5. Re:DARPA turn to Slashdot? by captinkid · · Score: 1

      I, for one, welcome our new Slashdot begging, DARPA released AI overlords.

    6. Re:DARPA turn to Slashdot? by stor · · Score: 1

      If DARPA is now so desperate as to seek out totally random and unknown readers of slashdot...my god the US is screwed. Huh? Slashdot is the most appropriate place on the Internet to search for Artificial Intelligence.

      -Stor

      --
      "Yeah well there's a lot of stuff that should be, but isn't"
    7. Re:DARPA turn to Slashdot? by jsebrech · · Score: 1

      I'm sure many slashdotters have come across some very smart people.

      We have, but not on slashdot.

    8. Re:DARPA turn to Slashdot? by Slacksoft · · Score: 1

      No kidding. Ever since the US found out the answer is 42 we totally let our guard down...

  5. Dear Slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Dear Slashdot, please do my homework for me.

    The second one in a week.

    1. Re:Dear Slashdot... by Xeth · · Score: 5, Interesting

      As if I didn't see that coming? I think my UID says I've been here awhile.

      It's not that I'm asking Slashdot to do my work for me; I've already got some very strong leads to work on. However, Slashdot occasionally surprises me with people that are thoughtful and working in interesting fields, so I figured I'd give it a shot. Most of the changes in my life have come from sudden and unexpected directions; I wanted to see what serendipity might bring me that deliberation would not.

      --
      If your theory is different from practice, then your theory is wrong.
    2. Re:Dear Slashdot... by Chirs · · Score: 3, Funny

      As if I didn't see that coming? I think my UID says I've been here awhile. You're only allowed to say that if you have a 5-digit or less uid. :)

    3. Re:Dear Slashdot... by mrroot · · Score: 1

      I think my UID says I've been here awhile.

      You're going "old timer" with a 6-digit UID?

      Won't be long now until a real old timer comes along and tells you to get off their lawn.

      --
      I Heart Sorting Networks
    4. Re:Dear Slashdot... by Vairon · · Score: 5, Funny

      Why back in my day we had to post questions to the legs of carrier pigeons. Gosh darn it! We liked it that way!

    5. Re:Dear Slashdot... by Falstius · · Score: 1

      I wanted to see what serendipity might bring me that deliberation would not Or ... you just wanted an excuse to read Slashdot at work.

      The problem with asking for cool ideas that aren't in the literature yet, is that anyone who works in the field and is smart will keep them to themselves until they've had a chance to publish. Anyone who doesn't work in the field is likely to throw out ideas that sound cool and were rejected years ago as being unworkable. So in the end you're looking for a monkey typing Shakespeare.

      Of course, this is Slashdot. There are certainly plenty of typing monkeys.

    6. Re:Dear Slashdot... by chinakow · · Score: 2, Funny

      You're only allowed to say that if you have a 5-digit or less uid. :)

      Exactly, now all we need is someone to make us look like newbies.

    7. Re:Dear Slashdot... by rathinam · · Score: 1

      Give the guy a break. He's not talking *for* DARPA since he's a consultant, and is asking for ideas that he might miss by doing traditional searching - which is a completely valid point, especially in the leading edge fields DARPA deals with. I have come across, more than once, work of significance at unexpected places - even though it was before the Internet because very popular. There may still be isolated instances of interesting and useful work done - the isolation being unintentional, intentional or strong or weak.

    8. Re:Dear Slashdot... by kfort · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'll just post this and wait for one of the 3 digits that only stick around for these threads to show up.

    9. Re:Dear Slashdot... by TheLink · · Score: 1

      One of my theories is brains predict possible futures (by modelling reality in parallel), and consciousness is what happens when a brain recursively tries to simulate and predict itself.

      There are already plenty of nonhuman intelligences around (see your local pet store). And how we handle them is not that great.

      I personally am not sure if creation of AI will be a big benefit to humans in the long term. Perhaps augmentation of humans or animals would be more useful.

      Given it's DARPA, examples of augmentation would be adding sensors and preprocessors that do automatic weapon detection and recognition (highlighting gun muzzles in undergrowth), "crack thump" calculation to locate snipers after they shoot, and so on.

      --
    10. Re:Dear Slashdot... by M1000 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Exactly, now all we need is someone to make us look like newbies.

      It could be worse ;-)
    11. Re:Dear Slashdot... by Crafack · · Score: 5, Funny
      You had pigeons?

      Paper and pigeons! What'll be the next? A magical tablet that translates your handwaving to images of the Wonders of the Worlds? Pah!

      In my day, we had to write the questions using cuneiform script on a damp clay tablet, pack it in an envelope of clay, and then deliver it personally to the priesthood.

      /Crafack

      --
      ... Elecance is left to the implementors.
    12. Re:Dear Slashdot... by rainhill · · Score: 1

      >>You're going "old timer" with a 6-digit UID?

      I must be his grandpa then ;)

    13. Re:Dear Slashdot... by akita · · Score: 4, Funny

      Get off my lawn ?

    14. Re:Dear Slashdot... by rainhill · · Score: 1

      I agree with what you are trying to do. There are smart and intelligent people that occasionally hangs out /.

    15. Re:Dear Slashdot... by wellingj · · Score: 1

      One of my theories is brains predict possible futures (by modelling reality in parallel), and consciousness is what happens when a brain recursively tries to simulate and predict itself.
      Wouldn't that be an application of Baysian Estimation?
      You may enjoy this book if you haven't already.
    16. Re:Dear Slashdot... by T3Tech · · Score: 1

      Damn, my other uid is still 6 digits, even though it's about a million < this one. Oh well. :)

      --
      Of course I didn't RTFA... why would I do that? You really are new here aren't you? Don't let my UID fool you.
    17. Re:Dear Slashdot... by s4m7 · · Score: 1

      Slashdot occasionally surprises me with people that are thoughtful and working He's definitely not new around here guys.
      --
      This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.
    18. Re:Dear Slashdot... by triffidsting · · Score: 1

      And no danger of any cool ideas being stolen at all. I mean, it's not like consultants are in it to make money.

      By all means, let's all do his homework for him too.

      --
      Non, je ne veux pas coucher avec toi ce soir.
    19. Re:Dear Slashdot... by synaptic · · Score: 3, Funny

      Get off my lawn ?

      Who mowed down my field?
    20. Re:Dear Slashdot... by quietlysubversive · · Score: 1

      srsly? you're working a temp job at darpa, first of all. get over yourself. .... and you're asking slashdot for input on a field so advanced it has ruined careers of academicians more advanced than you could ever hope to be!

      You've got some "strong leads"? OMG, you are going to sleuth out the most intractable problem known to computer science!

      Just print out the wikipedia page on AI, give it to your boss, and tell him to give you some real work to do.

      P.S. you can't argue with anything I just said because my User ID is like 500,000 lower than yours *roll* no one cares

      --
      ----(o)----
    21. Re:Dear Slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Learn how to write in proper English first, and then we can talk...
      Real geeks from the USA, that created this IT age we live in, are tired of foreigners trying to play the smarty card.
      Go back to answer your customer service calls in your Delhi slum, Abu!

    22. Re:Dear Slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know Xeth, but I can tell you that DARPA is full of consultants ("temps," in your parlance) with PhD's and multiple books, patents, etc. under their belts. Perhaps you'd be more impressed by a government employee? I doubt it. Other than the GS's, everyone there has a "temp job," which often consists of managing a project from concept to successful demonstration.

    23. Re:Dear Slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, it's me, same coward as above. In case you're still confused, all research at DARPA is conducted under contract by technology companies and universities. So Xeth will not actually be building AI, but will most likely be involved with such things as writing solicitations, evaluating proposals, managing any resulting projects, etc.

      BTW, your remark about his boss giving him real work to do belies a certain ignorance on your part, regarding this type of consulting. Are you a part time web coder by any chance?

    24. Re:Dear Slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, if you talk about a DARPA project and you want anyone to take you seriously, give:
      1) the link to the project, with the URL in a darpa domain
      2) point to the page with your e-mail address

      Have a nice life!

    25. Re:Dear Slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Xeth, how about we come up with an AI bot that preens and postures over the size of its UID?

    26. Re:Dear Slashdot... by Tabernaque86 · · Score: 1

      4-digit UID? I think it was the brontosaurus...with all due respect.

    27. Re:Dear Slashdot... by greg_barton · · Score: 1

      No, bitch. Mine.

    28. Re:Dear Slashdot... by Mr.+Mikey · · Score: 1

      No, no, no... you have to be more definitive about it...

      Ahem: "Get of my lawn, ya damn kids!"

      See? From the diaphragm... and helps if you have a cane to shake in the air for emphasis.

      --
      wants to be the first monkey to touch the monolith
    29. Re:Dear Slashdot... by kraut · · Score: 1

      Sheesh... noobs ;)

      --
      no taxation without representation!
    30. Re:Dear Slashdot... by quietlysubversive · · Score: 1

      My main point, while not explicit was just that its silly and pretentious to post such a question to slashdot.

      The goals he described would be so powerful that if he really was on any REAL project working towards them, it would be so secret that he'd already be sitting in Leavenworth awaiting treason charges. Slashdot would also probably have been taken offline and its servers confiscated.

      Given that he's still posting, and Slashdot survives, I maintain my point which is that he's on a fool's errand - probably just being asked to do some busy work while they try to figure out what's next.

      --
      ----(o)----
    31. Re:Dear Slashdot... by The+Mayor · · Score: 1

      Yeah, there are tons of 4-digit UIDs. Wish I hadn't lost the login credentials of my original 3-digit one :-( Poor me.

      --
      --Be human.
    32. Re:Dear Slashdot... by SmartyPants · · Score: 1

      you make me feel so young!

    33. Re:Dear Slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Although there are many classified projects at DARPA, they are also surprisingly open about many things. See their web site for a summary of most of the projects underway in each office. As the goal is to be innovative, it is not at all uncommon to solicit ideas from industry. And it is not at all uncommon for a project manager to solicit ideas from the various contractors working for him/her. It does not seem at all surprising or inappropriate for one of these contractors to turn to "Ask Slashdot" for ideas if he has been a member for a while and is familiar with the breadth of experience here. Slashdot has how many members now? Is it really that far fetched that a handful of them might be involved in a viable AI effort and willing to get some funding from DoD to further their study?

      DARPA is more like a university environment than a CIA knockoff.

    34. Re:Dear Slashdot... by tgd · · Score: 1

      Look who's talking...

    35. Re:Dear Slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you got a cool idea, no one is forcing you to reveal it. If your cool idea is going to die with you instead of benefiting mankind, what good is it? But if you want to develop it and profit it, shhhhh keep it secret for a while.

      Sure the counter-argument is whether DARPA will use it for the benefit of mankind - which is another discussion.

  6. Answer to the fundamental nature of intelligence by mauddib~ · · Score: 1, Funny

    Ah, the answer to the fundamental nature of intelligence is, of course, 42 (as has been calculated before). However, we're still searching for the answer (plus the answer to life, the universe and everything).

    --
    This is a replacement signature.
  7. DUDE! Sorry... by edwebdev · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... I had a totally sweet aritifical intelligence lead, but I already told China about it, and they said I shouldn't tell anyone else.

    :-/

    1. Re:DUDE! Sorry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Holy crap, you're in trouble. Didn't you know that a single statement like this is actually enough to land your ass in Guantanamo? You should send me your root passwords, I promise to look after your servers while you're gone.

    2. Re:DUDE! Sorry... by edwebdev · · Score: 1

      You should send me your root passwords, I promise to look after your servers while you're gone.

      OMG ok wat ur email?!??/!!!!1/??
    3. Re:DUDE! Sorry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry, the artificially intelligent lead paint from China will intelligently seek you out and drown you if they detected you've leaked anything. So if they're unhappy with you you'll know immediately. Hey, what's that gray gooey stuff creeping under the doorway?...
        AARRRRRGGGHfjym8g49ymh4u3m87g487m 4#%CF$##

  8. Games by garphik · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Games? It is the best scratch pad for AI experiments.

    1. Re:Games by julesh · · Score: 1

      Games? It is the best scratch pad for AI experiments.

      Bollocks. Very few games have AI that's even approximately interesting. The most advanced stuff that's commonly used is stuff like algorithms for navigating around a map and obstacle avoidance that were basically mastered by the robotics community in the late 80s and early 90s.

      Show me a game that does something truly novel in terms of AI, and I'll be impressed. I don't see any, though.

    2. Re:Games by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      The AI in games are not as free-thinking as you might think.

      AIs, for instance, can not figure out how a map works in a first person shooter entirely on their own. Bots in older games (or on maps without waypoints) will often walk into a wall, stop, get their bearings, and then move in another direction. I loved watching Foxbots in TFC just stand around during a CTF map walking in circles around the flag.

      In Half Life 2, the enemy AI runs on paths. There are multiple plotted paths, and it follows them and makes some decisions based on its surroundings: how much health do I have? How many of my fellows are alive? etc.

      There is yet to be a freeform AI that can completely destroy a player in a computer game like some of the best real people can. Higher difficulty settings in games just handicap the player - it doesn't make the AI smarter (see: less ammo, sustain more damage, enemies sustain less damage, etc.)

    3. Re:Games by garphik · · Score: 1
      Guys, I am saying its a good ground for experimentation. Who is stopping you from using neural networks in choosing the best weapon / Most effective move for the opponent?

      >>There is yet to be a freeform AI that can completely destroy a player in a computer game like some of the best real people can.

      Chess? A very simple yet effective example of AI?

    4. Re:Games by SQLGuru · · Score: 1

      There's some potential with Spore.......I'm still in "wait and see" mode for what it holds.
      And then there was Creatures (and Creatures 2): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatures_2

      Not what I would call ground breaking stuff, but not your typical pathfinding AI.

      Layne

    5. Re:Games by SQLGuru · · Score: 1

      Chess - a very "simple" database query.

      select move from all_possible_moves where chance_of_winning is highest_(with_some_randomness) and board_position = current_board_position

      The same could be said for human Chess Masters. The best players can see far enough ahead to see whether a move has a greater chance of success than any other move.

      Layne

    6. Re:Games by nametaken · · Score: 1

      How about a nice game of chess?

  9. Whatever you do... by ark1 · · Score: 2, Funny

    don't call it Skynet.

    1. Re:Whatever you do... by edwebdev · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Too late - the British already did that.

  10. Suicidal by mreggen · · Score: 0

    This seems to a very frustrating field of research. Good Luck.

  11. An obvious one. by v(*_*)vvvv · · Score: 4, Informative

    numeta

    It's mainly a teaching + learning system for a system with input and output. I don't see anything built with it answering any rational questions or coming up with new ideas anytime soon, but if you do AI and don't know about them, you better catch up.

    1. Re:An obvious one. by QuantumG · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think the Deep Belief Networks of Hinton et al are way ahead of Numenta.. in that they are real science with measurable results that has been reproduced by multiple implementations. The 2006 paper that started it all and Hinton's presentation on google video:

      http://www.gatsby.ucl.ac.uk/~ywteh/research/ebm/nc2006.pdf
      http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=228784531481853811

      A formal analysis:

      http://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~ilya/pubs/2007/inf_deep_net_utml.pdf

      Application to natural language processing:

      http://www.cs.swarthmore.edu/~meeden/cs81/s08/DahlLaTouche.pdf
      http://www.machinelearning.org/proceedings/icml2007/papers/425.pdf

      Reproducing Hinton and extension to and evaluation in other domains:

      http://www.machinelearning.org/proceedings/icml2007/papers/331.pdf

      Use in Computer animation of facial expressions:

      http://aclab.ca/users/josh/downloads/pubs/23_Susskind_Hinton_Movellan_Anderson.pdf

      Most impressive:

      http://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~ilya/pubs/2007/aistats_multilayered.pdf

      A C++ implementation (although it has much Python love):

      http://plearn.berlios.de/

      So yeah, there's some pretty good demonstrations of how powerful DBNs are.. Numenta is lagging behind.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    2. Re:An obvious one. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I'm attending a conference put on by Numenta this week. As a Masters student in AI I've been interested in finding good companies that are working on core AI algorithms (as opposed to applications) and that actually have a chance of advancing the field. The options seem somewhat limited and Numenta certainly seems like one of the most promising. They are really taking AI in new directions by trying to incorporate more information about the how the brain works.

      As to whether deep belief networks are a better approach, my impression is DBN's are quite different (in particular they lack the element of training using time). I'm certainly no DBN expert (I've only seen one video of a talk by Hinton on them), but it seems to me that both approaches are promising avenues of future research.

    3. Re:An obvious one. by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      TRBMs have been used in DBNs, look at Learning Multilevel Distributed Representations for High-Dimensional Sequences,
      Ilya Sutskever and Geoffrey Hinton, AISTATS 2007. But yeah, if you're looking for a job, Numenta are a good place to look. Of course, once you join the company you'll think Numenta's technology is the "one true path" and not even bother looking at the rest of the field ;)

       

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    4. Re:An obvious one. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    5. Re:An obvious one. by braindrainbahrain · · Score: 1

      I don't know if this one is obvious, but I'll pitch it into the ring:

      Natural Selection, Inc , working primarily on genetic algorithms.

  12. goog "cognitive science research software" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
  13. OpenCog by QuantumG · · Score: 4, Informative
    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:OpenCog by dougsha · · Score: 1

      I second opencog. They have an active and growing community.

      From the opencog.org home page:

      "What is OpenCog?

      The Open Cognition Framework (OpenCog) is software for the collaborative development of safe and beneficial Artificial General Intelligence.

      OpenCog provides research scientists and software developers with a common platform to build and share artificial intelligence programs. The framework includes:

              * a flexible and highly optimized in-memory database for knowledge representation,
              * a plug-in architecture for cognitive algorithms and a cognitive process scheduler,
              * a built-in LISP-like programming language, and
              * other components to support artificial intelligence research and development.

      Programs written or adapted for OpenCog may be combined and used in concert with one another for experimentation or to achieve better results compared to their stand-alone counterparts. "

    2. Re:OpenCog by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm suspicious of the whole AGI movement. I would like to see some kind of theoretical results to guess whether what they are doing really will work.

      And I don't mean whether we can create a true strong AI. I don't doubt that it is possible.

      What I mean is that the AGI community has several possible architectures worked out. I've read some of the papers that Goertzel, Pei Wang, a2i2 has put out and I'm not convinced. They've even written some kind of code but Goertzel alone has gone through a few startups with no discernable results. Perhaps they are there but since these are all commercial enterprises much of it is proprietary and remains hidden.

      I can understand how AGI might not get university funding, however, there needs to be open-ness about how this is coming together and what the results are.

      I'm excited by the singularity after reading Kurzweil's book but I'm tired of reading, listening about it and would much rather start creating it.

      I'm not totally impressed with OpenCog since AGI-Sim, opencog's predecessor, seemed to go dormant.

      All I want is some proof. Is that so hard?

    3. Re:OpenCog by QuantumG · · Score: 2, Informative

      All I want is some proof. Is that so hard? No, and you're right to ask for it. Skepticism is healthy.

      There's three main components to OpenCog:

        * The architecture
        * The Probabilistic Logic Network algorithm
        * The competent generic algorithms system (MOSES)

      and it is openly admitted that this isn't enough.. some sub-symbolic algorithms will be needed to complement all this "neat" (although probabilistically weighted) work.

      And then hanging on the side is all the Natural Language Processing stuff, and the embodied simulation stuff, both of which are meant to generate interesting input for OpenCog to process.

      To date, the PLN algorithm hasn't not been made public, although that could change in the next month. The MOSES stuff is public, but not integrated yet. The Natural Language Processing stuff is written in Java (the rest of the framework is written in C++) and this won't change as the XML interfaces between the two are sufficiently powerful that there is just no need.

      Probably not until September 2008 or later will all these parts start coming together.. and it'll likely be well into next year before something "impressive" can be demoed without outright cheating. Then, hopefully, things will take off. But who knows. We have to wait and see and optimistic predictions do more harm than good.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    4. Re:OpenCog by QuantumG · · Score: 2

      hasn't not been made public or has not, if you prefer :)

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    5. Re:OpenCog by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could try http://elysia.sourceforge.net/

    6. Re:OpenCog by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Neat.

      So when can I start to contribute code?

    7. Re:OpenCog by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      Right now, whoever you are.

      If you'd like some help getting involved, drop me an email.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    8. Re:OpenCog by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 1
      From their overview paper:

      - an implementation of a LISP-like language called Combo This is symptomatic for the state of contemporary AI research. A purportedly "integrated" environment for developing AI implementations that uses its own, home-brewn language instead of, say, CommonLisp or PLT Scheme.

      I must say that by far the biggest problem is the lack of standards, reasonable documentation, and software maintenance in combination with ad-hoc languages and implementations. If researchers stopped reinventing the wheel all the time, AI research would be in a much better state than it is now.

    9. Re:OpenCog by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      They're talking about the language that the programs the genetic algorithms evolve.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
  14. Hi by martin-boundary · · Score: 3, Funny
    I'm a consultant from Slashdot. For a low fee, I can point you towards research materials to save you the time and effort of doing it yourself, and if you elect to pay for the premium service, I also guarantee that all provided materials are not fake. Send me an email and we'll see where it goes :)

    1. Re:Hi by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Funny

      And here I was, thinking that everyone from the Anderson fallout already had a new job...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  15. Johnny 5 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I don't have a project, but I have a question for you, is Johnny 5 really alive?

  16. Applications more then Research.... by Bytal · · Score: 1

    It would be great to hear of any interesting original research. It seems to me that most of the news in this space are more about applications of already well known ideas rather then new well publicized developments.

    The 'Semantic Web' companies that are springing up all over like Twine, AdaptiveBlue, etc. are the best examples. They seem to be using some basic NLP, classifiers and statistical models to provide various services on the web. This may not be cutting edge artificial intelligence research but, in my opinion, wide spread, highly visible innovation in the field can often inspire more people to pursue the truly hard and import hard science research.

  17. As somebody already mentioned, check games... by sitarlo · · Score: 0

    But, keep in mind that artificial intelligence is still well... artificial.

  18. Experience Based Language Acquisition by YodaToo · · Score: 2, Informative
  19. Funding by enoz · · Score: 1

    It looks like DARPA is trying new methods to get some more funding.

  20. Blue Brain by Usquebaugh · · Score: 2, Informative

    Take a look at the project http://bluebrain.epfl.ch/

  21. Fundamental research? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Hello,

    I'm studying theoritical computer science, meaning it's often called math (things like complexity theory, lambda calculus, even linear logic...).

    I always loved AIs, but I was often told that there is no research on it which is that theoretical; that it's more like a collection of applied domains, like learning neural networks or computer vision.

    So, what is the most theoritical aspect of AI research that you know? Or put otherwise, is there a branch of AI research where you prove theorems rather than writing code?

    I know it's slightly off topic, but people working on that kind of thing are probably wondering if they should mention it here (wondering if it interests DARPA or not).

    1. Re:Fundamental research? by debatem1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      A lot of the older AI research is pure theory, but in the last 20 years or so it has been driven by the realization that we don't really have the tools to meet some of the early expectations of the field. If you are interested in the theoretical foundations of AI, though, you might want to look into compression, data representation, and computability, as well as general information theory. Claude Shannon's work would be a good place to start, and is cited frequently enough to give you a guided tour through AI.

    2. Re:Fundamental research? by dominious · · Score: 3, Informative

      Or put otherwise, is there a branch of AI research where you prove theorems rather than writing code? It is called Automated Reasoning and there are already some theorem provers out there like Otter or Prover9
    3. Re:Fundamental research? by gfody · · Score: 2, Informative

      What about cognitive science. Using logic isn't cognition - "you're not thinking you're using logic"

      --

      bite my glorious golden ass.
    4. Re:Fundamental research? by coaxial · · Score: 1

      convex optimization
      decision theory

    5. Re:Fundamental research? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hehe thats UNM for you. At NMT we never get buzz because our grad students just give talks at defcon... Sometimes I think I chose the wrong school. Then again every class is either theory or fast application. (try learning a new language in 12 hours every once in a while its fun) ps for Defcon proof look at Covert Debugging last year and Toasterkit this year

    6. Re:Fundamental research? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you sure that deciding the best course of action for an intelligent agent is a convex problem?

    7. Re:Fundamental research? by coaxial · · Score: 1

      I'm sure that's what we can solve.

    8. Re:Fundamental research? by coaxial · · Score: 1

      I'm also sure that you don't know what you're talking about by attempting to combine the two in your snide comment.

    9. Re:Fundamental research? by xtracto · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is an interesting post. As far as I knew, things like logic in some way part of AI. One of my PhD supervisors is a monster in logics, and he has published in AI Journal [Elsev.](one of the most presigious journals for AI).

      I think a lot of research on Agents is related with logics, including but not limited to CTL, ATL, first order L., that combined with game theory.

      What I would suggest you is looking at academia, mostly in Europe (UK, Netherlands [they are good at theoretical research], Germany). If you are good, you surely can get a get a post-doc (you can easily do a PhD, if you get funded by someone in your home country) and afterwards a full time post which will lead you to a proffesorship.

      Of course, if what you want is to specifically work for the government, I do not think that any government agency (besides of the ones related to academia) would fund theoretical research (as it is assumed that such thing is done at Universities).

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    10. Re:Fundamental research? by jtogel · · Score: 1

      This is pretty theoretical, and arguably quite fundamental: http://www.idsia.ch/~juergen/unilearn.html Disclosure: I work with Juergen Schmidhuber

    11. Re:Fundamental research? by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 1

      Dynamic Epistemic Logic and related domains (preference upgrade, belief revision, etc.)

    12. Re:Fundamental research? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is also "Bayesian Learning" and the "Computational learning Theory" framework.

      See the book "Machine Learning" by Tom M. Mitchell
      chapter 6. and 7.

    13. Re:Fundamental research? by colmore · · Score: 1

      Claude Shannon = most underappreciated genius of the 20th century.

      We're talking Feynman and Einstein level brains.

      --
      In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
    14. Re:Fundamental research? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would take a look at what's called learning theory. It's pretty closely related to statistics. Learning theory is used to say, given the complexity of a model and the number and accuracy of training samples, what the accuracy of its predictions are. So you can use it to analyze machines like support vector machines.

    15. Re:Fundamental research? by matsuva · · Score: 1

      You make it seem very easy, in reality the European academic community is very closed though and professorships are for life so the chance a place frees up for you is very very slim. Especially in logics nobody in the EU will be waiting for you because that's one of the only things we're still quite good in. Don't get your hopes up.

    16. Re:Fundamental research? by amischiefr · · Score: 1

      No, you are right: you definitely went to the wrong school :p UNM has some very bright AI professors. Personally, I think that I could spend 20 years under Prof Ackley and never come close to learning everything he knows :) Not saying that there aren't bright guys at tech, but hey... it's NMT !! lol

    17. Re:Fundamental research? by debatem1 · · Score: 1

      Absolutely. I have a feeling that we're all going to feel very stupid about who we put up on pedestals when all is said and done.

    18. Re:Fundamental research? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, my comment is snider than intended for which I apologize. And I am not involved in AI research, so the recommendation of convex optimization as a branch of AI theory did came as quite a surprise. Can you perhaps elaborate on the kind of optimization applications you were thinking of?

  22. Artificial? by aitikin · · Score: 0, Troll

    Why are we looking for Artificial Intelligence when we haven't found real intelligence?

    --
    "Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
  23. A problem, divided by Lije+Baley · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You've got to quit trying to advance on separate fronts. People have been exploring and reinventing the same old niches for sixty years. Little has changed except for the availability of powerful hardware with which to realize these disconnected bits and pieces. What is needed is a way to bring the many different segments of the AI and robotic communities together, because the solution is not to find the "winning approach", but to realize the value of the various perspectives and combine efforts. This is not a new idea, it is an old one which apparently just doesn't fit into the established research environments. Go to the library and read some old books on AI if you really want an appreciation of how pathetic the progress of ideas (not hardware) has been. To whet your appetite try some of Marvin Minsky's old papers - http://web.media.mit.edu/~minsky He recognized this situation nearly 40 years ago.

    --
    Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
    1. Re:A problem, divided by ChrisA90278 · · Score: 1


      You are correct. The bottle neck is management. Working in the aerospace field I've seen some very large software projects. I've worked on some that had 250 or more software engineers and those projects were just sub-projects of larger ones. I basically cost about a billion dollars to put up a new design spacecraft, more or less. ($1M buys about 5 engineering man years, $1B gets you 5K man years, about what it takes.) You can't run a project of that size without good project management and good system engineers and requirements management and review committees ad so on and so on. To build a big AI system you are going to have to find a way to hire managers and testers and configuration control and QA people.

      No one in the AI community has the skills to pull off a large project so all of them are limited in scope to whatever the lead person can manage

      "True AI" will be much more complex than building and launching a manned trip to the moon. I'm thinking on the order of hundred of thousands of engineering man years.

      Yes, we all hate big organizations and paper work and red tape but just try and get 1,000 engineers allon the same path without it. Until this happens we will see even more decades of toy projects that come and go.

  24. BobChatter.com AI by lonester23 · · Score: 1

    The IM/ Chat service http://bobchatter.com/ has developed some AI technology. The technology is disguised as a person and can answer random questions that it is asked. For example... Question: Do you like hotdogs? Response: First it is all about the dog not the topping.

  25. I think he's a buzzword consultant by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 1

    Lots of words, nothing said.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
    1. Re:I think he's a buzzword consultant by Xeth · · Score: 1

      Well, yes, I'm asking a question, not offering an answer. Is there something specific you'd like me to clarify?

      --
      If your theory is different from practice, then your theory is wrong.
    2. Re:I think he's a buzzword consultant by Plutonite · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Possibly: what exactly the research on self-awareness/sentient learning systems comprises for you guys. The reason I bring this up is that I left AI as a main research field because even the most flexible research goals set by academia today are just tiny steps of applicative advances in statistical inference and mathematical techniques in general. Not that these things are not useful (machine learning is quite amazing, actually) but the initial goals have little to do with all this. We have surpassed brains in many ways, but the massively parallel brain does not even "learn", let alone think(which is what we want) in the manner in which any AI system today is based. And yes, that includes adaptive ones that change their own set of heuristics.

      I spent a lot of my time thinking about neuroscience and reading psychology , and while I slowly moved towards rationalizing certain things, the main obstacles to what I needed to know were deeply biological. How exactly does the mind "light up" certain areas of memory while recalling things (sounds, sights..etc) stored nearby? How "randomized" is this? And how can it be represented mathematically (von neumann architecture)? Is there ANYTHING we do that is not entirely memory based (even arithmetic seems to stem from adaptive memory)? Why do we need to sleep, and what part of the whole "algorithm", if there is one, is dependent on this sleeping business? What exactly does it change in our reasoning?

      If we know precisely some good answers, rather than the guesswork in literally all major texbooks, we can begin to model something useful and perhaps introduce much more powerful intelligence with all we have developed in NN, probabilistic systems..etc. I think once sentience is conquered, human beings are going to be immediately made inferior. It's just this abstraction business that is so damn complicated.

    3. Re:I think he's a buzzword consultant by metlos · · Score: 1

      Hierarchical temporal memory is a theory you might be interested in... See http://www.numenta.com/ or read the book http://www.amazon.com/Intelligence-Jeff-Hawkins/dp/0805078533/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214300344&sr=8-1

    4. Re:I think he's a buzzword consultant by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Xeth, I emailed you when the article was posted; no response received. Intent? Usual email filterfoolery?

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    5. Re:I think he's a buzzword consultant by Xeth · · Score: 1

      Sorry about that, I just got a lot more emails than I expected. I want to give them all their proper consideration, so it'll take a day or so.

      --
      If your theory is different from practice, then your theory is wrong.
  26. Wrong tree by vandan · · Score: 1, Insightful

    As I read the blurb, I immediately thought of a list of readings by extremely well-respected biologists on the nature of consciousness that would serve as an excellent starting point.

    But should I help out DARPA? I don't think so. Someone else can help you kill people, poison the environment, and support the growing neo-con empire.

    1. Re:Wrong tree by icepick72 · · Score: 1

      Well now, don't you feel better.

    2. Re:Wrong tree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      But should I help out DARPA? I don't think so. Someone else can help you kill people, poison the environment, and support the growing neo-con empire.

      Yeah, they can go to Hell and take their fucking internet with them.

    3. Re:Wrong tree by debatem1 · · Score: 1

      Good work- you blew a fuse on my sarcasmomiter.

    4. Re:Wrong tree by mstahl · · Score: 1

      Since the time of the ancient Greeks, the best way to get and keep funding for useful projects was to have military applications for them. A lot of really useful research and really useful inventions have come out of DARPA (*ahem* internet *cough*). Even Leonardo da Vinci had to slave a bit for the man.

      In other words put a sock in it because we're guests on their network.

  27. Bull. by pXgray · · Score: 0

    This is the most BS story I have ever seen on Slashdot.

    --

    End of Post
    You are at the end of the post. To the north lies the post.
    There is a sig here.
  28. Re:Bad grammar day by giminy · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hopefully whatever your researching ...

    --
    The Right Reverend K. Reid Wightman,
  29. revised Turing Test by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Given today's technology and what we know now, can you think of an appropriate successor for Turing's Test? Hopefully something elegant, although it probably won't be nearly as succinct. Implicit in the question, of course, is "what do we mean when we talk about AI?"

    This could help drive research over the next twenty years because it would give people something to shoot for; or at least until it comes time to move the goalposts again.

    1. Re:revised Turing Test by debatem1 · · Score: 1

      We don't need a successor, we can't get the one we've got working.

  30. Serious slashvertisement campaign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it just me, but it seems that DARPA is pretending to do viral advertisement in Slashdot for some time now. Many stories. I am getting a bit annoyed.

  31. Statistical models on EEG versus implants by Sybert42 · · Score: 1

    Often here we have breathless stories about the latest input device to use EEG-type information from the user. The reality is that the information is very noisy. I looked at my EEG from a sleep study--it is nearly completely white noise, especially compared to eye and leg traces. What do we gain by implanting close to the brain? By having more sensors? Ironically, the analysis of very incomplete brain data might itself call for and aid in the study of intelligence.

  32. Re:Modeling Conciousness: what do we do with AI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just started up this blog on AI you may find related/interesting.

    And I have a super-bitchin' first project for you -- build an AI which knows how to write coherently, knows how to use apostrophes correctly, all that basic communication kind of shit. When it's finished, pack up all your crap and turn over the keys to your Mom's basement to it.

  33. Basics..... by IHC+Navistar · · Score: 1

    Why doesn't the Government start wokrng on making Congress work?

    Oh, wait..... They already are robots.

    --
    Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
    1. Re:Basics..... by Vectronic · · Score: 1

      Why do you think he needs better AI? they aren't currently acting very human, a lot of us don't believe they are.

  34. Dear Friend by trainsnpep · · Score: 5, Funny

    Dear Friend,

    Compliment of the day to you and your entire family how are you today? Hope all is well with you I hope this email meets you in a perfect condition. I am using this opportunity to thank you inform you that I have come upon a large repository of AI source code left to me by my brother, Prince Abdullah of Nigeria.

    It is my desire to transfer this source of of my home country to a place where it will be safe, and I wish your association in this business matter. I've been recommended to you by Mr. Smith of New York. I would like to transfer the source to your FTP server as an escrow service. In recompense, I will offer you 10% of the code, which is LoC 150,000,000.

    To complete this transaction which will be beneficial to both of us, please contact my secretary with the following information:

    1. YOUR FTP SERVER ADDRESS.
    2. YOUR USERNAME.
    3. YOUR PASS WORD.

    The name and contact address of MY SECRETARY is as follows below.

    MR.Brwon Adebayor
    14 Island Street Lagos Nigeria
    E-MAIL brwonadebayor@yahoo.com
    TEL +2348083322221

    In the moment, I am very busy here in Paraguay because of the investment projects which myself and my new partner are having at hand IN PARAGUAY.Finally, remember that I have forwarded instruction to my SECRETARY MR.Brwon Adebayor, his E-mail, (brwonadebayor@yahoo.com) to assist you on your behalf to send the source code to you as soon as you contact him.

    Please I will like you to accept this grant offer with good faith as this is from the bottom of my heart. You should contact my secretary for the claim of you'r 10% which i willingly offer to you immediately you receive this mail, Presently I am in Paraguay.

    pls make sure that you inform me as soon as you collect the bank draft so that we can share the joy together. Thanks and God bless you and your family.

    Best Regards,
    MR. RICHARD WANG
    PRESENTLY IN PARAGUAY

    --
    --<Mike>--
    1. Re:Dear Friend by Ardipithecus · · Score: 1

      Is this an output from your Nigerian 419 Scam Generator?

  35. True AI won't happen until... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    True "artificial" intelligence won't happen until we have computers that include quantum uncertainty into calculations. I use quotes around "artificial" because what I'm talking about is real intelligence that is not artificial in any way other than being hosted by a computer instead of a biological brain.

    Most of the research these days in the field of computing that includes quantum uncertainty has been focused on building quantum logic gates. I suppose that is one way, but I think it is short-sighted and includes many perils that may be impossible to overcome.

    Why must an intelligent computer include quantum uncertainty? Without quantum uncertainty, a computer is nothing more than an automaton. Its logic will always be determinate. A determinate automaton cannot be creative, due to its necessarily determinate results. A determinate machine cannot have "free will", something I consider to be a prerequisite for intelligence. Of course, if one believes that human intelligence arises from nothing other than neurons firing, and not from some external "soul", and that "free will" necessarily means that the results are not predictable, then the only conclusion that I can conclude is that the brain's neurons embrace quantum uncertainty as part of the process of creating intelligent thought.

    Want to create a computer that includes quantum uncertainty? Look closely at asynchronous computing. Another field that includes something that looks like (or may actually be) quantum uncertainty is massively parallel computing, where network latency between nodes is inherently indeterminate. Of course, in both these fields, current work centers around how to stabilize the uncertainty, by using exit conditions for asynchronous computing (I guess--asynchronous computing isn't something I know too much about), or through locking and synchronization models like two-phase commit. All this does is take this uncertainty and stabilize and eliminate it, for the purposes of determinate computing. Truly intelligent computers, I posit, won't try to eliminate uncertainty to create deterministic behavior; it will embrace uncertainty and utilize non-deterministic behavior to create intelligence. Uncertainty is the key to intelligence.

    1. Re:True AI won't happen until... by The+Mayor · · Score: 1

      Shit, forgot to log in before posting. There. Oh, and for all of you young folk that think your ID is low, no, it isn't. Mine isn't even low. I forgot the login credentials for my first acct (in the 100s). Damn.

      --
      --Be human.
    2. Re:True AI won't happen until... by The+Mayor · · Score: 1

      Er, my post was the "True AI won't happen until...". Seems I'm not too intelligent, myself, sometimes.

      --
      --Be human.
    3. Re:True AI won't happen until... by sbulut77 · · Score: 1

      You have got the basic idea right. But too many generalizations, e.g. you said: 'that "free will" necessarily means that the results are not predictable.' Then a lot of people on this planet are not intelligent. ;) I guess you were trying to say: "A non-zero percentage of decisions that an intelligent being will do should not be deterministic." You don't need quantum uncertainity to achieve this, at least not directly. Just introduce a random number generator to your intelligent system. ;) I guess you can say that sub-atomic particles are modeled only using probabilistic/statistic models, so introducing a randomness to a system in a way is introduction of a quantum effect. Blah blah...

    4. Re:True AI won't happen until... by debatem1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you're drawing conclusions based on some serious misunderstandings, a large leap of faith, and an unfamiliarity with the fields in question.

      As far as the requirement for "free will" in computer systems, you've put the cart before the horse and assumed that free will must exist for a system to simulate the mind, without ever proving that the mind is anything other than a deterministic system of unbelievable complexity. To presume that it is nondeterministic because you cannot adequately predict its behavior is pretty obviously bad logic.

      The human brain does not take advantage of any known large-scale quantum effects, and, so far as we know, does not exploit any of them to produce random behavior. Once again, the inability to demonstrate a pattern is not evidence that a pattern does not exist.

      Asynchronous computing does not produce or take advantage of quantum uncertainty. The levels of quantum uncertainty involved are swallowed by the impact of the deterministic systems they are filtered through, and drowned out by the impact of chaotic but deterministic variations in process scheduling, resource locking, and timing conflicts. The same goes for parallel computing for the same reasons- network latency is a chaotic, not random, phenomenon.

      In terms of the use of quantum uncertainty for intelligent systems, there is no doubt that quantum computing holds tremendous promise, but also that its applications are hugely misunderstood. It is not a cure-all for general computing problems, and it particularly does not solve the problem of being insufficiently able to describe the your problem.

      Bottom line is that chaos != randomness, and unpredicted != unpredictable. What you've got is good philosophy, but does not accurately depict the state of AI or what we know about the systems you are describing.

    5. Re:True AI won't happen until... by debatem1 · · Score: 1

      Last time I checked, all strong RNGs are based on either quantum or chaotic effects, with quantum effects being the mathematically stronger of the two.

    6. Re:True AI won't happen until... by The+Mayor · · Score: 1

      Chaos == determinate, non-predictable. I claim that determinism inherently rules out free will. I assume the human mind has free will, and that free will is a prerequisite for true intelligence (not simulating real intelligence). That assumption is a leap, and I fully understand and accept that. But, if you accept that assumption, a chaotic system cannot have true intelligence.

      Asynchronous computing, using current models, does not produce or take advantage of quantum uncertainty. But I posit that they could, if designed for this. Instead, traditional computer design attempts to eliminate non-deterministic behavior. I state this (quantum uncertainty) as a potential for asynchronous computing, not as one that already exists. I'd love to see logic models where results are not deterministic, but do converge over time. In short, I'd like to see what an asynchronous computing model is capable of once one frees oneself from the current bounds of modern computing.

      Network latency is most certainly non-determinate, at least in an open computer network. I'm not talking about latency as it relates to a single connection between two computers. I'm talking about latency that includes the cost of network collisions, which is determinate based upon the network traffic from other computers (presumably controlled by people that act not chaotically, but non-deterministicly).

      Finally, I'm not trying to depict accurately the state of AI. I know quite well that these concepts are outside the norm of AI. In fact, I build learning systems for my day job--massively parallel computing that utilizes, among other things, neural networks, genetic algorithms, graph theory, etc. I'm trying to state what is required for true machine intelligence. This non-deterministic behavior is what will distinguish artificial intelligence and brain models from true machine intelligence.

      True machine intelligence will not come from following the same standard old routes. I think there is some value to be had using massive parallel computing models where each node mimics a neuron, since these include the non-deterministic network latency I described earlier. Unfortunately, the resulting system that is required for modeling even moderately complex brains is enormous, far bigger than the biggest parallel clusters available today. An asynchronous computer is one way I think this effect (non-deterministic behavior) can be taken advantage of without spending billions (and it will be inherently faster because inter-"neuron" latency is reduced to nanosecond levels). I do not find much value in the effort to create true machine intelligence through the use of neural networks, genetic algorithms, and the such, although they do work well in determining pricing models for commodities & equities, as well as assessing risk, and these are both areas in which I utilize them.

      You are correct in your assessment of my ideas as "a good philosophy". They are not practical ideas at this point, and they will not lead to any hardware or software designs any time soon. But these are the places where DARPA should be funding. They have a long and distinguished history of funding the Tesla-type research, not the Alexander Graham Bell-type research. There's already been tons of money, time, and effort poured down traditional AI research. What do we have as a result? Not much.

      --
      --Be human.
    7. Re:True AI won't happen until... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your post is dumb.

    8. Re:True AI won't happen until... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Er, my post was the "True AI won't happen until...". Seems I'm not too intelligent, myself, sometimes.

      nahh, you just too old - side effect of natural intelligence I guess!
    9. Re:True AI won't happen until... by jacquesm · · Score: 1

      Roger Penrose on /. whodathunkit.

    10. Re:True AI won't happen until... by The+Mayor · · Score: 1

      I should have said "non-determinate". Non-predictable is not sufficient, imho.

      Non-determinate does not imply it does not converge. A transistor is a classic case of a non-determinate system, based on quantum effects, that converges. Because it is non-determinate, we have created clocks (i.e. synchronous computing) to sample the transistor only after it has converged. In other words, our logic systems for traditional computing are limited by our ability to create programs that rely upon non-deterministic behavior. This is the case of pretty much all computing, including current quantum computing, traditional synchronous computing, and research into asynchronous computing. I posit that we need to rethink this fundamental aspect of logic, to create a system that embraces non-deterministic behavior, but relies upon convergent behavior. Only in this way will we break free from "artificial" machine intelligence into the realm of "real" machine intelligence.

      I didn't mean to imply that asynchronous computing is the only way to achieve this non-determinate behavior. A true random number generator indeed would do the trick. Network latency, as it involves external network traffic, is another for of non-deterministic behavior. Asynchronous computing does it rather directly, though. A transistor is a pretty good model for a neuron, except that neurons typically have dozens of inputs instead of only two.

      There is plenty of evidence that our brain relies upon quantum behaviors. The sense of smell and the sense of taste, in particular, have been shown to have behavior that is best explained by quantum effects. The behavior of individual neurons is another area that is best explained by quantum effects. We know that a neuron *will* converge (i.e. fire) based upon certain inputs. We just don't know exactly *when* it will fire. Sort of like transistors.

      I can go on. I haven't covered at all my models regarding the other human senses. Touch, vision, and hearing utilize our central nervous system to behave as sorts of Fourier transforms, transforming time-based data into frequency-based data. I suspect that the quantum effects sensed by the taste and smell are similarly transformed into frequency-based data. I firmly believe that the brain acts as a sort of pattern-finding engine. These patterns are far easier to discern in the frequency domain (my background includes signal processing and pattern finding, both of which I use in the financial world in combination with so-called learning systems to predict future risk and future prices of equities and commodities).

      I am not an AI researcher; in fact, I believe that AI has fundamental problems that will prevent it from ever reaching true intelligence. But I am an applied AI software developer. I just think the term "AI" has loaded with false implications. I also think the current field is a dead end when it comes to creating true machine intelligence.

      --
      --Be human.
    11. Re:True AI won't happen until... by The+Mayor · · Score: 1

      Well, hot damn. Thanks. Didn't realize he and I shared beliefs. Guess I've got some more reading to add to my summer reading list.

      --
      --Be human.
    12. Re:True AI won't happen until... by mikael · · Score: 1

      New scientist has an article on Brains generate their own built-in noise to achieve optimum performance.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    13. Re:True AI won't happen until... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In fact, I build learning systems for my day job--massively parallel computing that utilizes, among other things, neural networks, genetic algorithms, graph theory, etc. I'm trying to state what is required for true machine intelligence. This non-deterministic behavior is what will distinguish artificial intelligence and brain models from true machine intelligence.

      That fact that you believe we have free will that is not deterministic in nature makes me feel sorry for your employer, not knowing he has a kook on his hands. From your first post a few pages above here, your credentials were already appearing doubtful. But I'm just an AC.

    14. Re:True AI won't happen until... by debatem1 · · Score: 1

      I'm afraid I can't follow you on your leap of faith, there. The difference between chaotic and random is BIG, a far more fundamental difference than you are making it out to be, and we just don't see anything that indicates any kind of "ghost in the machine".

      As far as network latency goes, it is, once again, chaotic, not random. It has the property of being immensely difficult to predict with perfect accuracy, but, very importantly, has an excellent chance of being predicted given a rather limited margin of error and adjacent sample spaces. Your point may be that either form of indeterminacy is acceptable, but if that is the case why do you posit that "free will", if it exists, cannot emerge from deterministic systems?

      Also, I'm not getting why you're using network latency to generate pseudorandomness for your MPNNs? Doesn't that cause bad loading behavior? And you're using 1 node per neuron?

      I'm not sure why you say that modeling the brain exceeds the available power, since Blue Brain is already capable of modeling significant portions of a mammalian brain.

      Honestly, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way, I hope DARPA doesn't fund your ideas. Maybe you're ahead of your time, but more likely I think you're headed down a path that is comfortably self-justifying but ultimately inaccurate. Will randomness be a part of any "solution" in the foreseeable future? Yes. Does that derive from any deep-seated meaning about the nature of man or the universe? That I find very dubious.

    15. Re:True AI won't happen until... by The+Mayor · · Score: 1

      First, the definition of free will has been debated through the ages, and my definition is not universally accepted. Given that, my definition of free will implies that choices are *not* predetermined, that free will implies a non-determinate system. Now, there is no way I, or anyone, can prove or disprove that humans have free will by this definition (?until we create true intelligence based upon a determinate system?). Therefore, to follow my further arguments, you must accept this assumption that free will implies a non-determinate system, at least for the sake of this discussion.

      Free will == non-determinate == truly random, not pseudorandom. Now, since humans interact with a computer network, and humans, by my previous assumption, have free will, network latency therefore is non-determinate.

      All of this implies not chaotic behavior, but instead truly random behavior. There are bounds, and the randomness definitely converges. But, at its core, it is truly random, not pseudo-random, and therefore not chaotic.

      Network latency does not generate, therefore, pseudo-randomness, but true randomness. Humans interact with the network, introducing truly random behavior. This randomness does not cause bad loading behavior. If you are familiar with neural networks, perhaps you've encountered situations where introducing a pseudo-random delay to a feedback loop can most definitely improve loading behavior for specific circumstances.

      Truly random behavior does not imply that it cannot be modeled. It can be modeled. But the model will never be 100% accurate, and will never produce truly intelligent machines (as opposed to artificial intelligence that models, but does not create, true intelligence). Yes, I know that chaotic systems, according to currently accepted math, are non-predictable. But they are determinate. Determinate necessarily implies a lack of free will, by my earlier assumption (you don't have to agree with my assumption in reality, but, for the sake of this discussion, it is central to all of my other logic).

      While we may be able to model significant portions of a mammalian brain, our models are not creative. Perhaps, with sufficient power, we will be able to model creativity. But, being determinate, it will only approximate true creativity.

      One node per neuron is an extreme case. There must be some interaction that introduces truly random behavior for it to be truly intelligent. According to my prior assumption...this is really breaking down to a tautology, where if you agree with my base assumption, then the rest falls out based upon logic; if you reject my base assumption, the the rest is inherently inaccurate based upon logic.

      I'm not saying that "modeling the brain exceeds the available power". I am instead saying that modeling the brain will approximate, but not create, true intelligence. It will get close. It may pass the Turing Test. But it won't be truly intelligent. It will just look intelligent. And, I posit without proof, it will not be creative.

      Honestly, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I'm not looking for DARPA funding, and I don't give a fuck about DARPA. I've got a good day job, and I doubt DARPA would ever be able to match my working conditions, monetary compensation, and flexibility.

      I like to discuss these things to expand my horizons. Slashdot has produced over the years many interesting discussions that expand my horizons (less so recently, aside from this thread--I've become more of a reddit lately). I enjoy discussing my ideas, and pushing my boundaries. The only reasons I'm discussing this here is because this thread will undoubtedly attract people that can expand my horizons. Quite frankly, it has achieved this, as I have found some additional reading already for my summer reading list. And I thoroughly enjoy this thread with you. Although you haven't asked as such, I am a solipsist at my core, so everything in life, this thread included, is mental masturbation. And that, in and of itself, is to be celebrated.

      --
      --Be human.
    16. Re:True AI won't happen until... by tooba · · Score: 1

      I think that your argument for non-determinism explains the "free" part of "free will" but the implications for the "will" part are puzzling. You claim that human free will includes the ability to act without regard to preconditions (non-deterministically), and that quantum uncertainty is a possible pathway for introducing that type of true randomness. What I don't understand is how introducing that randomness allows an intelligent actor to execute his own will?

      One possible explanation is that the introduction of a random element into the cognitive process allows him to generate multiple potential future scenarios which compete deterministically as the actor chooses which to pursue. While the intelligence has no control over how the random element influences the creation of those scenarios, it does have deterministic control over the selection process.

      I suppose that the randomness could also be integrated into the choosing process by randomly mutating the mechanism used to choose and selecting those that perform better over time.

      All this being said, I still don't see how making an intelligence non-deterministic implies anything similar to "free will." It may be a conflict of definitions, since I take free will not only means that there is some non-deterministic decision making process, but also that the actor actually retains control of that non-deterministic process. I should be able to decide between chocolate and vanilla ice cream consciously and non-deterministically.

      As a matter of full disclosure, I should note that I am not convinced of humanity's own free will, since it basically just means having the ability to choose to act in a way that is at odds with the innumerable causes that have led up to the decision to act. Also, I think my definition implies a continuous, identifiable aspect of intelligence which exists outside of physical reality. I don't see any evidence that either of these are necessary to explain what we observe, but thinking about the implications of true randomness in the cognitive process has given me new food for thought.

    17. Re:True AI won't happen until... by debatem1 · · Score: 1

      You and I aren't going to see eye to eye on free will. I don't buy it and you do, for reasons that each of us considers convincing- but I have to wonder what your reasons are. I just don't see the evidence, and lets be honest here- proving randomness is a bitch. There are myriad possible explanations for our difficulty in modeling human behavior that do not depend on mystical intervention or unknown and unobservable phenomenon. Why do you believe something that flies in the face of all we know about the rest of the universe, when there is not a shred of evidence to support your claim? Is it because it is a comforting thought to believe that alone among all the collections of atoms in the Universe, we control our fate? Is it a justification of the notions of good and evil? Of God? I really don't understand, and would love to hear a cogent argument for its existence.

      Part of the problem you've got in talking about AI is that you are talking about stuff you've seen in movies, not the actual state of AI. AI is creative now- look at the wifi antenna that it created, or the wind instrument playing robots that made headlines just a few weeks ago. Does it depend upon chance, upon permutation? Sure, just the same as a Monte Carlo simulation does, or a genetic algorithm, or a BPNN, but no more so, and you don't call any of those things "intelligent". In fact, I would venture so far as to say that you have a problem of definition on your hands- that you have decided that humanity alone holds the power of free will, of true intellect, and have derived all your subsequent reasoning from that point. That seems to me unworthy of somebody as obviously intelligent as you are, and I hope I'm wrong about it.

      Your statement about latency coming from a random source and therefore being random is clearly false, as it is trivial to construct a distinguisher function which imposes arbitrary order onto a random input, as you yourself argue when discussing convergence.

      I am familiar with neural networks, and am still not understanding how using a metric that depends upon the performance of your network to dictate the behavior of your network produces random behavior.

      Your statement about modeling truly random behavior is, so far as I can tell, entirely in error. Perhaps you meant that it was possible to model systems whose state includes random information? It is most certainly not the case that you can model a truly random system with a non-negligible chance of success.

      I'm glad you enjoy the mental exercise, I have too, but I'm still not getting your fundamental premise. You don't seem to be concerned in the slightest that there isn't any evidence for it, that it is impossible to build constructions based on, or that it is purely unfalsifiable. I find that strange, and look forward to your response.

    18. Re:True AI won't happen until... by The+Mayor · · Score: 1

      Chaotic effects produce pseudo-random numbers. I am unaware of any truly random number generators that are not based upon quantum effects. I believe that quantum effects are the only physical phenomena that are believed to be truly random. Even then, some great minds (e.g. Einstein) never quite believed that quantum effects are truly random. "God doesn't play dice".

      --
      --Be human.
    19. Re:True AI won't happen until... by The+Mayor · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I feel sorry for my employer, too. He is me. My existence as a solipsist places me firmly in the realm of kooks. But, damn, I'm had a history of success in the field of financial analysis that is hard to attribute to chance.

      --
      --Be human.
    20. Re:True AI won't happen until... by The+Mayor · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I pretty much surmised it's a question of the definition of free will that was causing us to disagree. I believe that free will (according to my definition) exists, and that it is the spark that changes the living brain from a simple automaton to a creating, thinking entity. I don't believe in a soul, as per the religious concept at least. But my definition of free will most certainly does require non-deterministic behavior. Whether free will==intelligence is debatable, though, and I fully accept it as a non-provable (or disprovable) thing until we create true machine intelligence.

      As far as AI is concerned, I don't believe that genetic algorithms (the sort of thing used to create this antenna, I presume, or the sort that has proved exhaustively the strongest form of a column at my alma mater) is true creativity or intelligence. It approximates creativity. It models intelligence. But it is not creative, nor is it intelligent. It is a tool, used by creative and intelligent beings to achieve a goal. Without the intelligent driver, I don't think such creativity is possible short of exhaustively trying every possible combination of everything. I don't think that's what creativity or intelligence is, and I don't think it's possible except in very narrow, well defined areas (that are narrow and well defined by the external creative/intelligent driver of the tool).

      I don't think creativity and intelligence are embodied only by humans (I think very many living things are creative & intelligent, but my familiarity and use of AI tools to do financial analysis have given me the belief that nothing I have seen in the field of AI classifies as intelligence or creativity). That's nitpicking on your use of the phrase, "only by humans", though. I don't believe anything humans have manufactured/programmed would fit my concept of intelligence or creativity.

      I'm not sure I follow you on the distinguisher function bit. Perhaps you can discuss that further? I'm not sure how imposing order necessarily removes the non-deterministic input from the system. My point about convergence is that while each individual datum of input may be non-deterministic, the overall distribution of inputs may well be modeled quite easily. The model won't be accurate/deterministic at the minute level, but the net effect of large numbers of input will be model-able and deterministic (this, in fact, is exactly what adding a clock to the quantum effects of a transistor does to create a deterministic switch out of a non-deterministic core effect of electrons maybe jumping from the N to the P junction).

      My concept of embracing this non-deterministic behavior of transistors is analogous to my understanding of how individual neurons work, and how their outputs cascade as inputs into other neurons to create thought. The exact time that an individual transistor/neuron fires cannot be predetermined. But the net effect of a network of these transistors firing produces a result that converges over time. My premise is that occasional changes in timing for firing of individual transistors/neurons is (or may be, at least) the spark that initiates creativity, and that creativity is a prerequisite to what I call true intelligence. The only problem I see is that all avenues of research into quantum gates for quantum computers, or into asynchronous computing, intentionally attempts to eliminate the effect of "misfires" of transistors, or quantum gates, since non-deterministic logic doesn't really serve us well in the field of computing. I think we need to break free from that avenue of thought, and to embrace these "misfires".

      My point about modeling systems whose state includes random information is that we can create such models that work *most* of the time. We can model the aggregate behavior of the system, but we will never be 100% accurate with our model. If we were 100% accurate with the model, then we would have the basis for the creation of a truly random number generator, and that would be truly newsworthy. W

      --
      --Be human.
    21. Re:True AI won't happen until... by debatem1 · · Score: 1

      Nevertheless, it is widely believed that an RNG of cryptographic strength can still be devised from chaotic effects given that the output length remains finite and of significantly lower magnitude than the internal state of the RNG. This is due to the effectively unlimited periodicity of some chaotic effects. Caution should be advised when using those effects that are easily observable or manipulable, but otherwise, chaotic effects should have sufficient cryptographic strength to render it impossible to build an advantaged distinguisher.

  36. AI should fix mistakes, not make them. by Kainaw · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For many decades, there has been a push to have an AI that acts just like a human. In other words, it makes rash decisions, based on bad anecdotes and stereotypes, full of mistakes, and then tries to rationalize that everything was planned with intelligence.

    AI should understand the failings of human intelligence and fix it. For example, I have the sad job of normalizing health data. Every day, I dread coming into work and going through another million or so prescriptions. Doctors and nurses seem to continually find new ways to screw up what should be a very simple job: What is the name of the medication? What is the dosage? How often should it be taken? When should the prescription start? When should it end? How many refills/extensions on the prescription are allowed before a new prescription must be written? Instead of something reasonable like: "Coreg 20mg. Every evening. 2008-06-10 to 2006-07-10. 5 Refills." -- I get: "Correk 20qd. 10/6/08x5." It seems to me that some form of AI could learn how stupid humans are and easily make sense of the garbage. Of course, there's no reason the AI couldn't replace the doctor and write the prescriptions itself in a very nice normalized form.

    --
    The previous comment is purposely vague and generalized, but all of the facts are completely true.
    1. Re:AI should fix mistakes, not make them. by icegreentea · · Score: 1

      I thought the idea of having an AI working like a human (strong AI anyways) was not so it can have all the flaws we have, but so we can have a conscious machine. We are the conscious beings that we know the best, so conscious and human-like becomes largely the same thing.

      That being said, standardizing human behavior is possible. The easiest way is to set up a standard form for prescriptions with nice fields for name, type, dosage, and etc, and then adding a nice 'other' field just in case. You know, just like how all those forms with dates have those nice little DD/MM/YYYY labels (or whatever system is correct).

    2. Re:AI should fix mistakes, not make them. by Basehart · · Score: 1

      There's an indefinable line out there where AI and human intelligence will meet, in much the same way that alien life and life as we know it will also meet, but will they cross over?

      Sure, it'll be cool describing your symptoms to a robot Doc one day when you get a sore throat, and having it drum up some perfectly sripted scrip that actually fixes your throat, but what happens when the robot Doc gets a sore throat?

      And it will.

      I know we're only talking about the kind of AI that can answer phone calls at this point, but eventually there'll be some...thing...that becomes cognisant of its surroundings and actually starts giving a damn about what's going on.

      What happens then?

      Should we even be trying to create AI?

      Everyone's freaking about about the collider in Switzerland but I don't see any movies about colliders taking over the world anytime soon!

    3. Re:AI should fix mistakes, not make them. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The answer to this could be if AI would be capable of writing code. Splitting the AI to ordinary computer and a neural network that would be capable of programming the computer would result in self-programming computer that would not make numerical errors while being capable of acting as a human with immediate access to complex calculation results.

    4. Re:AI should fix mistakes, not make them. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AI should understand the failings of human intelligence and fix it.

      this is where your statement breaks down. We haven't got an agreed way to identify intelligence let alone understand any form of it. And undersanding human intelligence is a major difficulty in cognitive sciences. Right now, AI is trying two things; trying to recreate intelligence with the hope that that will help us understand it and trying to create intelligence (of any kind) with the hope that we can use it without understanding it. This looks like it might take a long long time. When someone comes up with the first "intelligent" machine (weak AI meaning - strong AI people believe your thermostat is intelligent) then we can talk about what kind of intelligence we should be aiming for.

    5. Re:AI should fix mistakes, not make them. by Xest · · Score: 1

      A system that performs set tasks isn't necessarily intelligent nor does it necessarily require intelligence. Or to put it another way, just because humans perform some tasks doesn't mean that task requires intelligence to perform.

      Intelligence is defined by the likes of free thought, the ability to learn from mistakes, come up with ideas, adapt fluidly to changing situations and so on. If it's not capable of making mistakes it's not capable of learning how to deal with the unpredictable.

      What you're after isn't really intelligence, just run of the mill systems capable of performing more complex tasks (or not in your case, systems can already solve the scenario you describe). The grey area here is weak AI, which is born of the fruits of AI research yet generally offers no more than ways of solving problems that classic approaches couldn't.

      The original post looks like it's after projects that are aiming to advance our understanding of the possibility of strong AI which is simply not the best tool for the solution you describe any more than error prone humans are.

    6. Re:AI should fix mistakes, not make them. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh come on, if you could replace a doctor with a robot then there's no reason for a pharmacist either. Why should the robot doctor be programmed to write when it could be programmed to transfer the prescription digitally to the pharmacist robot?

    7. Re:AI should fix mistakes, not make them. by nine-times · · Score: 1
      The problem is that you have 3 options:
      1. Don't create intelligence
      2. Create an intelligence that makes mistakes and jumps to conclusions
      3. Create God

      The third option would of course have benefits, but it would be rather daunting to undertake. Anything short of that will be an intelligence which makes mistakes, because that's the nature of intelligence-- to analyze situations and draw conclusions which aren't completely founded, based on incomplete information.

    8. Re:AI should fix mistakes, not make them. by everphilski · · Score: 1

      There's a real easy way to fix it, if the doctors in question are specialists. I only see one doctor, who is a migraine specialist. When I need a refill, he gets out the appropriate pre-printed pad with the prescription name and tickboxes for the refill amount and dosing. He then checks off the appropriate refill and dose. Everything is typed and easy to read.

      Now for a general practitioner, this isn't possible, but for a specialist this is for 90% of the perscriptions s/he might fill.

    9. Re:AI should fix mistakes, not make them. by nametaken · · Score: 1

      That sounds like a "control the input", validate, store, kind of problem.

      How is this data entered?

  37. No. by God+of+Lemmings · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe you're working on a project like that and want to talk it up? Not under this administration.
    --
    Non sequitur: Your facts are uncoordinated.
    1. Re:No. by mabu · · Score: 1

      I agree. But at the same time I understand why they're asking. The current administration seems to have depleted its supply of natural intelligence.

    2. Re:No. by God+of+Lemmings · · Score: 1

      Not so much depleted as driven away. However, this administration is coming to an end soon. Maybe then.

      --
      Non sequitur: Your facts are uncoordinated.
  38. not for DARPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With all due respect, if I have any AI projects, sharing that information with DARPA would be very low on my list.

  39. A few leading groups by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    This is an area with lots of crackpots, but also lots of really interesting stuff.

    How do you tell the good stuff from the crackpot?

    The good ones are published in top machine learning, computer vision, robotics, and AI conferences and journal. The crackpot stuff doesn't survive peer review.

    Here are a few good examples:
    - Geff Hinton (U. Toronto): http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hinton/
    - Yoshua Bengio (U. Montreal: http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~bengioy/
    - Yann LeCun (NYU): http://www.cs.nyu.edu/~yann/index.html
    - Andrew Ng (Stanford): http://ai.stanford.edu/~ang/
    - Sebastian Seung (MIT): http://hebb.mit.edu/people/seung/
    - David Lowe (U British Columbia): http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~lowe/

  40. You need better computer vision by CrazyJim1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My AI page which has several links that go deeper to older write ups is at www.fossai.com

    Basically I say that the better computer vision you make, the better software you can write advanced bots leading up to AI. I see AI as being something we'll naturally get to even if no one makes an effort to it: Our 3d cards are getting better, video games are making better 3d worlds, memory is getting bigger, and computer speeds are getting faster. Even if you couldn't hold AI on a current computer's memory, you have wireless internet that links up with a supercomputer to make thin client bots. So there really isn't anything in current technology that is holding us back except computer vision.

    Now I am not so good in the computer vision field, but as I see it(excuse pun), there are two ways to do vision.

    1) Exact matching. You model an object in 3d via CAD, a Pixar style, or using Video Trace First you database all the objects that your AI will see in its environment then you make a program that identifies objects it "sees" with computer cameras and laser range finding devices. So then the AI can reconstruct its environment in its head. Then the AI can perceive doing actions on the objects.

    I'm currently not in the loop here. I can't talk to anyone at Video Trace because I'm just a person, and they don't want to let me in on their software. So I can't database my desk. So I can't make the program that would identify things.

    2) Even better than exact matching is similar matching. No two people look alike besides twins, so you can't really just database in a person and say that is a human. And as humans go, there are different categories such as male and female, and some are androgynous so we can't tell their sex. Similar matching has a lot of potential in its ability to detect things like trees and rocks. Similar matching is good at an environment that is tougher to put into exact matching situations. So just from this information alone, I wouldn't start on similar matching unless you had exact matching working in a closed environment. I'm not saying that some smart individual couldn't come up with similar matching before exact matching. I'm just saying that for myself, I'd start with exact matching, and then extend it with similar matching. There are a lot of clues you can pick up on if you know exact locations of things.

    And then once you have singular location vision working, you can add multi point vision working. Multi point vision would mean that if you had more robotic eyes on a scene that you'd gain more detail about it. You could even get as advanced as conflict resolution when one robotic eye thinks it sees something, but another thinks it is something different. The easiest way to think of a good application for this would be if you had a robotic car driving behind a normal semi trick and another robotic car infront of the semi. The robotic car in the back can't see past the semi to guess traffic conditions of when the semi will slow down, but the car in front of the truck can see well, so they can signal to each other information that would let the car in behind the semi truck follow closer. If you get enough eyes out there, you could really start to put together a big virtual map of the world to track people.

    I wouldn't say AI that learns like humans is desirable. After all, you'd have to code in trusting algorithms to know who to listen to. I'd say AI that downloads its knowledge from a reliable source is the way to go. It is easy to see: Sit in class for years until you learn a skill, or download it all at once like Neo on training seat.

    Anyway, you can do a lot with robots that have good computer vision. Thething that has to be done next is natural language understanding. So far we've discussed the AI viewing a snap shot of a scene and being able to identify the objects. Next you'll have to introduce verbs and moving.

    1. Re:You need better computer vision by nemo136 · · Score: 1

      Your main argument is mainly that you haven't got the tools in vision. Though, Somebody who is blind is able to build the surrounding world by touching, smelling and hearing. Moles also do the same thing naturally. The only drawback in AI which could be "REAL" might be (have been) the lack of computing power. And right now, the multi processors / cores are damn powerful enough to create intelligence, not sentience, but intelligence, though, it has yet to come ! Nobody has been able to create a generic mechanism which could master most sensors as well as potentially lead to intelligence provided it ran long enough and in a correct environment. That based only on input / outputs and a reinforcement signal.

    2. Re:You need better computer vision by cowtamer · · Score: 1

      You wouldn't happen to be a student of the late Prof. Sheldon Klein, would you?

      http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~sklein/sklein.html

      [In one of his classes, we tried (in a very rudimentary way) to give computers a "3D imagination space" by extracting spatial information from natural language and displaying it in a virtual reality environment. (We could visualize sentences such as "the chair is behind the table"). There was also much discussion of visual/spatial metaphors that humans use to understand abstract sentences. I agree that this "3D imagination space" would be very useful in some forms of natural language processing.]

    3. Re:You need better computer vision by Xest · · Score: 1

      Better visual recognition and understanding of natural language would certainly aid us in producing better systems but I'm not convinced they'll allow us to simply create intelligent robots.

      The search for an intelligent machine requires more than this, it's not just about sensing your environment of which vision is just one facet that is for example (i.e. blind people are still intelligent).

      I've had a quick read of your website and whilst interesting I'm not sure that it's entirely correct, I think it oversimplifies the problem.

      Recognising things visually is much more difficult than you might think, the system can be taught to recognise something but can it still do so if it changes colour? Can it recognise an object as being the same object it knew previously if it's broken? Can it for example recognise some smashed pieces of clay on the floor as the clay pot it was stood next to previously?

      What about context? One man's football is another man's soccer ball. How do you go about applying context?

      I understand that you suggest visual recognition is a starting point and other things can be built from here and I think visual recognition is an important area of research but I don't think it's really going to lead to strong AI in the way you approach the problem. Your proposed solution is too rigid for a fluid world, it's fairly similar to the case of symbolic vs. natural AI approaches whereby symbolic AI is great for solving some problems, it's limited in scope, it's not fluid or dynamic enough to solve some problems or lead eventually to strong AI. This is particularly the case when you compare to natural approaches like neural networks whereby pattern recognition can emerge through the processes that govern the system itself rather than be hard programmed or taught directly.

      Aside from this critique however, I do feel it's a good project, I just don't agree that it's a path to strong AI as the text on your site completely side-steps some of the complex issues that have arisen through debate of the possibility of strong AI.

      May I suggest though that perhaps a better way of doing things would not be to recognise objects simply by shape and dimensions but to also ensure recognition by texture, mass, colour and so forth? There is obviously more to recognition than just shape because as mentioned even a broken vase can be recognised by us as humans even though it's shape has changed completely. Any approach has to take all factors of an object into account and accept that no particular factor is necessarily fixed. Of course this again is even less straightforward because much classification that we as humans perform for things such as materials depend on past experience so this type of recognition has to be based on previous knowledge that is known to be correct (as far as our experience tells us!).

    4. Re:You need better computer vision by ZonkerWilliam · · Score: 1

      I have to agree, if you take the only intelligence we know of, human, and derive the obvious process that led to our developing intelligence, the senses play a major part in intelligence. This is why IMHO, that a robot could develop intelligence over just a computer.

    5. Re:You need better computer vision by CrazyJim1 · · Score: 1

      Blind people still think about the world in 3d. They use the sense of touch to understand what is around them.

  41. Implement the research! by CoolGuySteve · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I recently threw together a prototype for my company using OpenCV. That OpenCV exists for this sort of thing is a godsend. One of our interns recently completed a UI research project that also relied on OpenCV.

    But one of the problems I had while doing it was that whenever I searched for more documentation about the algorithms I was trying to write, all I could find where either papers describing how some researcher's system was better than mine, or some magic MATLAB code that worked on a small set of test images. There were no solid implementations written in C for any of these systems.

    I would love to dick around for weeks implementing all these research papers and then evaluating their results and real world performance, but I don't think my boss or my company's shareholders would enjoy that. Like every company, resources are limited for something that isn't making money.

    With that said, the best way to further AI research, particularly in the highly marketable fields of machine learning and computer vision (but probably others as well), is to add implementations of cutting edge research to existing BSD-licensed libraries like OpenCV for companies to evaluate. If products that use that research become profitable, private companies are likely to throw a lot more money and researchers at the problem, all competing to one-up the other.

    If you think I'm being unrealistic, you should check out the realtime face detection that recent Cannon cameras use for autofocus. Once upon a time, object recognition was considered a cutting edge AI problem.

    1. Re:Implement the research! by Ironlenny · · Score: 1

      There were no solid implementations written in C for any of these systems. This is the problem that I see with AI in general. The lack of usable code is a hindrance to AI development. A long time goal of mine has been the creation of an AI api that would cover all forms of AI, thus allowing any developer to use AI in any program. Of course this would need to be open source and cross platform.

      Instead of researchers in a lab, AI algorithms would be available to anyone in a form that is easy to implement. People could focus on how to use it, instead of how to get it to work in the first place. New combinations of methods (or entirely new methods) will be devolved as people work to solve real world problems, on real world budgets and time tables.
      --
      There is a system for subverting the system and you should use that system!
  42. Neuromorphic computing with Bacteriorhodopsin by charles-m · · Score: 0

    Some time ago I actually did some minor work in this field, as one of my post-docs. The idea was to emulate a portion of the edge detection/image enhancement features of the retina by trying to assemble a bacteriorhodopsin thin film onto a CCD camera/silicon substrate This is quite old work but I believe there is still some active work in this area. The original reference is in the edition Proceedings of the Pacific Symposium on Biocomputing 1997: http://psb.stanford.edu/psb97/ Some of these proceedings are available on Google Books. I can't seem to find the 1997 one but it may be there. I can send it to you if that is helpful.

  43. I'm working on my Ph.D. in AI by Theovon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Let's see.... what I'm working on....

    Pure pareto multiobjective genetic algorithms (just submitted a paper to IEEE TEVC)
    Hinge-loss function discriminative training of neural nets as classifiers
    Computer vision as a KNOWLEDGE problem (i.e. not just mostly signal processing and statistics)
    Persistent surveillance (entity tracking)
    Sensor asset allocation (using a GA)
    Various things involving abductive inference

    http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~millerti/

    1. Re:I'm working on my Ph.D. in AI by corbettw · · Score: 2

      Damn it! And I thought I was clever because I'm automating creation of Xen instances for a MySQL cluster. Oh well, at least it pays better than graduate work.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
  44. You could always check out... by htnprm · · Score: 1

    Eidolon A.I. TLP. :)

  45. Marvin Minsky by stoicio · · Score: 1

    Why not ask Marvin Minsky.
    I learned a lot by reading his stuff.
    I disagree with some of the limits he puts on things but he certainly has the behavioural
    aspects categorized.

    He probably knows some bright prospects.

    It'd be nice to see Marvin's site slashdotted...

    http://web.media.mit.edu/~minsky/

  46. Blue Brain: missing an ingredient by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Blue Brain, like several other projects of that nature, is missing an essential ingredient: although the machines have enough power to simulate large chunks of brain, at this point these simulation don't actually do anything useful. Without a good learning algorithm that works like biological learning, you can't make Blue Brain do vision, audition, or motor control.

  47. Give me a break by Louis+Savain · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Why is it that the first application that I can think of for such project developed by DARPA is that to use it against the citizens?

    Like it or lump it, you are in this boat with everyone else. If AI is solved, it will be used for good and evil. If your country does not use it for evil (extremely doubtful), somebody else's country will. Better yours than theirs. What I mean is that true AI will be an extremely powerful thing; if any country other than yours gets an early monopoly on AI, you can bet they are going to use it to kick your country's ass. I don't think you'd like that very much.

    Having said that (and to get back on topic), I have been working on ageneral AI project called Animal for some time. Animal is biologically inspired. It attempts to uses a multi-layer spiking neural network to learn how to play chess from scratch using sensors, effectors and a motivation mechanism based on reward and punishment. It is based on the premise that intelligence is essentially a temporal signal-processing phenomenon. I just need some funding. The caveat is that my ideas are out there big time and there is a bunch of people in cyberspace who think I am kook. LOL. But hey, send me some money anyway. You never know. :-D

    1. Re:Give me a break by wellingj · · Score: 1

      if any country other than yours gets an early monopoly on AI, you can bet they are going to use it to kick your country's ass.
      I can think of one country that wouldn't kick the US's ass (in a military confrontation) or any one else's if it's citizens solved the Strong AI problem.
    2. Re:Give me a break by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If your country does not use it for evil (extremely doubtful), somebody else's country will. Better yours than theirs.

      Yes. This is exactly how you can hold "somebody else" responsible for your murdering.

      Keep it going.

    3. Re:Give me a break by Bevilr · · Score: 1

      Why is it that the first application that I can think of for such project developed by DARPA is that to use it against the citizens?

      Like it or lump it, you are in this boat with everyone else. If AI is solved, it will be used for good and evil. If your country does not use it for evil (extremely doubtful), somebody else's country will. Better yours than theirs. What I mean is that true AI will be an extremely powerful thing; if any country other than yours gets an early monopoly on AI, you can bet they are going to use it to kick your country's ass. I don't think you'd like that very much.

      You assume that when nations or corporations develop AIs that are actually useful, or are capable of doing such things that they will be able to control them. In my view when you can create an AI to do something useful, you should always consider the option, that it can do something equally unhelpful. Who needs another country to screw up your plans when you've made the thing that can screw it up.
    4. Re:Give me a break by fyngyrz · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Yes, because countries never, ever violate their constitutions.

      Well, except for the USA, of course. Ex post facto laws. The standing of the commerce clause on its very head. The 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, and 10th amendments all sundered to degrees varying from harsh to ridiculous. Authorized, enumerated powers extended into unauthorized powers stolen wholesale from the citizens and the states. Article V completely ignored in favor of outright power grabs.

      Yes indeed, I'm quite sure we can count on a constitutional provision to keep a nation's leaders in check. After all, it's worked so well for us.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    5. Re:Give me a break by I+cant+believe+its+n · · Score: 1

      Well, except for the USA
      ... and except for Sweden of course with the recent FRA-law

      Regeringsformen, chapter 6 paragraph 2[Swedish]
      "It is every citizens right to be protected against having to reveal ones opinions politically, religiously, culturally or in any similar area."

      It is very hard to translate this to the letter, but I hope you do get the general intent of the law. FRA can not listen legally to its citizens, thereby revealing the citizens opinions on matters of politics, religion, culture and other areas. "Regeringsformen" trumps any other law since it is what we call a foundation law[Swedish]

      --
      She made the willows dance
    6. Re:Give me a break by should_be_linear · · Score: 1

      if any country other than yours gets an early monopoly on AI, you can bet they are going to use it to kick your country's ass.
      I see this line of thinking very dangerous. Many European countries, including one I live in, are certainly able to obtain nuclear weapons, but simply refuse to do so. So, what if "bad guys" (say, terrorists) activate nuclear bomb in here? First, society is reasonably certain our military is not *humiliating* civilians in other countries by randomly killing (especially children) or torturing people. That, we think, makes us reasonably safe from this kind of desperate retaliations. Second, If it happens anyway, what you can achieve by nuking (or sending AI killing-robots) "their" cities? Let alone fact that none city is "terrorist capital" you can target. Kill more civilians - create new potential desperate people ready for revenge. And third, how super-advanced nuclear-capable military secured USA against this kind of threats? If this kind of attack ever happens, I think it is 100 times more likely it will be in USA then any other country, no metter how perfect AI robots military builds. Its all about motivation and agony. If I was head of US army (which is President), I would try to re-think *image* USA has in the world, actual methods army is applying to achieve its goals in poor countries and how this actions can backfire later. Terrorism actually levels playground between huge highly sophisticated army and organisation of few individuals. Trying to win this game by pushing more in WWII-style heavy army bombing residential areas, with AI robotic or ordinary soldiers is plain stupid. Best way to win against this kind of threats is to cut supply of people willing to join this kind of organisations.

      --
      839*929
    7. Re:Give me a break by Cheesey · · Score: 1

      Well, good luck. But I can see why they think you're a kook. This AI stuff is a bit too close to "free energy" and "cold fusion" for my liking; decades of research and no progress to speak of, wild promises of what *might* happen if all the problems were magically solved, and an army of AI believers who won't let go of the dream. That's not to say you can't do it, just that lots of smart people have already tried and failed, which is generally a bad sign.

      But AI has already succeeded in some ways. It's contributed great things to our society:

      • Image processing algorithms
      • LISP, Scheme, and Prolog
      • Some great scifi books and films
      • Clippy
      • Keeping researchers off the streets
      • Eliza and Dr Sbaitso
      So it's not been a total waste of time.
      --
      >north
      You're an immobile computer, remember?
    8. Re:Give me a break by jacquesm · · Score: 1

      Louis, could you send me an email please, j@ww.com

      thanks !

    9. Re:Give me a break by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Funny, I was just posting this in the other recent AI thread. So how outside the mainstream are you?

    10. Re:Give me a break by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are aware that the easiest way to eliminate the suppliers of Terrorism is nuclear weapons, right? I'm pretty sure that's not what you want but like it or not retaliation on a rediculous scale has worked before.

      If the terrorists were actually interested in obtaining a peace they would not deliberatly target civilians. Their goal is to keep the pot stirred up so that they can keep their position of power. It's similiar to parts of the US government moving from one war to the next without a break so that they can stay in power or enact laws favorable to their agenda.

    11. Re:Give me a break by dwibby · · Score: 1

      Why is it that the first application that I can think of for such project developed by DARPA is that to use it against the citizens?

      Like it or lump it, you are in this boat with everyone else. If AI is solved, it will be used for good and evil. If your country does not use it for evil (extremely doubtful), somebody else's country will. Better yours than theirs. What I mean is that true AI will be an extremely powerful thing; if any country other than yours gets an early monopoly on AI, you can bet they are going to use it to kick your country's ass. I don't think you'd like that very much.

      <strangelove>There must not be a AI Gap!</strangelove>

    12. Re:Give me a break by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >What I mean is that true AI will be an
      >extremely powerful thing; if any country
      > other than yours gets an early monopoly
      > on AI, you can bet they are going to
      > use it to kick your country's ass.

      That is one possibility. Alternatively, if one comes from a civilized society, True AI would be used for the common good - for everyone on the planet.

    13. Re:Give me a break by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      I have no trouble believing the problem is widespread; it's just that I'm all too familiar with the problems where I live, hence the sarcasm. The GP's moderator, having not yet moved out of their mom's basement, isn't following the conversation very well.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    14. Re:Give me a break by The+Mayor · · Score: 1

      I like this concept of temporal signal processing phenomenon. I wouldn't worry about what others think. It takes "kooks" to make truly fundamental advances in science.

      --
      --Be human.
    15. Re:Give me a break by wellingj · · Score: 1

      I haven't moved out of my mom's basement?
      I agree that placing your trust in government to solve any problem is a path to civil liberty hell. I was just pointing out that it really isn't likely that Japan will ever attack any one ever again, for better or worse. They had enough problems justifying support roles in Iraq. They have enough problems justifying the very existence of the JSDF at all to the populace because the populace places more trust in the US Armed Forces. Which is not to say that if they came up with strong AI they would keep the technology from the US, they just wouldn't use it to attack the US. They would most likely use it to enhance the US's military power, and prefer to keep using the US as a shield. Given some of the WWII tensions that still exist to this day, that prospect isn't such a bad thing for them or any one else in the region, *IF* the US could remain impartial politically and withdraw from every where but Japan. But I'm not going to hold my breath on any of that...

    16. Re:Give me a break by Some_Llama · · Score: 1

      the hardest part of "teaching" AI is finding a reason for it to learn, you offer to use a mechanism based on reward and punishment:

      "Motivation Layer

      The idea behind motivation is to use reward and punishment stimuli to motivate the network to behave a certain way, i.e., to play a good game of chess. The motivational system will involve both sensors and effectors. Whatever the final motivation principle turns out to be, it will be tied to expectation learning in short and long-term memory. Above all, it will be a simple mechanism based on the powerful Principle of Complementarity."

      but couldn't find anything that describes this in a way that pertains to reward and punishment.. care to elaborate?

      At the level of "teaching" you say you are trying to achieve (from the ground up) what possible reward can you hope to offer AI to make forging it's own neural network from scratch worthwhile considering there is none to begin with to interpret the possibility of a "reward"?

    17. Re:Give me a break by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      I said the GP's (now GGGP) moderator hadn't moved out. Not you.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    18. Re:Give me a break by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Which is not to say that if they came up with strong AI they would keep the technology from the US, they just wouldn't use it to attack the US

      I don't think you really understand the relationship between Japan and the US. Japan has already repeatedly attacked the US post-WwII, and done a huge amount of damage; there's a reason the Japanese say, in all seriousness, that "business is war." There's a reason our electronics industry crashed, our car industry almost crashed, our steel industry crashed, you can look right at Japan for many of the penultimate causes. They're already huge owners of US debt and US land. If Japan were to develop AI, you can bet your last pitifully weak dollar that they'd use it to gain as much of an additional foothold over us as possible. Presuming we're talking about real AI here, that would probably be a very, very substantial foothold.

      As far as classical military uses, they're only as likely to do that as they are to create a self defense force. Oh, wait. :-)

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  48. Re:Bad grammar day by Miseph · · Score: 1

    "Also, who reads the comments?"

    Well... you, apparently. And I thought nobody ever RTFA, not RTFC.

    --
    Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
  49. Copycat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  50. Artifical Intelligence as a fundemental error by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    AI development over the years has focused on what an intelligence can do, not what a lifeform is. A lifeform is not its decision capabilities, morality, self-awareness, computational skills, creativity, memory, individuality, etc.

    At the most basic level, a lifeform is something that has the ability to experience reality automously and as an independent entity distinct from the reality in which it is contained or composed from. That's it, just the ability to experience.

    This is the source of the fundemental error made by every person who has pursued the illusion of AI. The failure to recognise that life is built from the components provided by reality and that the ability to experience is not an illusion generated at runtime due to electro-biological circuitry, but the result of interfacing aspects of the universe's physical composition.

    Life cannot appear in a universe that is not alive itself at a fundemental level.

    Do you really want to wake it up?

  51. Everyone's heard of HAL, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    but just wait until you see MegaHAL!

  52. Very un-DARPA by Device666 · · Score: 1

    "No promises (seriously), but interesting work will be brought to the attention of the project manager I'm working with."

    Does your manager even know about this post on Slashdot? This must be at the least a very unusual way for DARPA to acquire information. I have doubts about the seriousness of your post.

  53. Do it in hardware by CopaceticOpus · · Score: 1

    I hear that AI is only about 15 years away, so you could try just waiting until then. Unfortunately, that estimate hasn't changed for 30 years.

    Given the slow progress in AI research, I think a radical approach is in order. I doubt that we'll see any breakthroughs from a small crew of programmers with quad cores and c++.

    The human brain is a massively parallel, self-reconfiguring network of nodes. How far have we come in building any sort of scalable technology that can operate in such a manner? I know there are projects to try and reverse engineer brains from creatures of various intelligences. But even if we succeed in getting the basic blueprint of a simple brain, how would we go about building it? Because of this, I would lean towards funding projects that are developing new kinds of hardware inspired by the brain's design. Without currently unheard-of levels of parallelization, advanced AI may not even be physically possible.

    1. Re:Do it in hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.lanl.gov/news/index.php/fuseaction/home.story/story_id/13602

  54. Matrix Logic by Darth+Cider · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The Matrix Logic series of books by August Stern should give you some ideas. Maybe DARPA has the resources to test if isospin of oxygen is really the basis of intelligence, as Stern considers plausible, due to the vector basis of "logicspace." Look for that missing particle predicted by logic groups while you're at it. I don't know why those books aren't cited more, or why symbolic logic is still taught as it always has been, when matrix logic makes things so much clearer and more consistent. The vector approach to logic can also replace standard programming structures in everyday code. Instead of if-then or case structures, querying a truth table or testing for equivalence term by term--the usual practice in conventional logic, too--a matrix multiplication can calculate the answer directly, if the terms are properly conceptualized. The books are easy to read, too, very clear and straightforward. Everybody oughta check em out.

    1. Re:Matrix Logic by Mattness · · Score: 1

      Cycorp is the best AI publicly available according to Google (they made this a Google Video of the Year.) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7704388615049492068

  55. University of Tulsa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The University of Tulsa has several projects involving AI and evolutionary programming. You should look up Dr. Roger Wainwright or Dr. Rose Gamble.

  56. Poker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why aren't people writing awesome poker 'bots?

    Online poker doesn't have the same psychological element you get in face to face interaction, so an AI is on a level playing field. There is nothing "secret" a human could know that an AI couldn't. And we (programmers) can beat humans in chess already.

    A successful poker AI doesn't even need to be that good. Just make something that wins small games with n00bs 50.001% of the time and run it on 10,000 tables in parallel 24 hours a day.

  57. AI embriology and development ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Considering in humans language is the result of P=G+E ...

      Is the perspective that an AI system (that can pass the Turning test) needs to be 'grown' being considered?

      e.g. Development from say Chomsky's base of a 'Universal Grammar' (G), then subjecting the base to some sort of (E)nvironment?

    Subsequently, is anything analogous to Edelman's "Neural Darwinism" being incorporated into the development and ongoing process? If so is it trying to mimic--NCC's, Dennett's Multiple-Drafts model or Baar's Global Workspace model etc?

     

  58. Animal: Learning Chess From Scratch by Louis+Savain · · Score: 1

    I have been working on a general AI project called Animal for some time. Animal is biologically inspired. It attempts to uses a multi-layer spiking neural network to learn how to play chess from scratch using sensors, effectors and a motivation mechanism based on reward and punishment. It is based on the premise that intelligence is essentially a temporal signal-processing phenomenon. I just need some funding. The caveat is that my ideas are out there big time and there is a bunch of people in cyberspace who think I am kook. LOL. But hey, send me some money anyway. You never know. I promise I won't mention the Bible stuff. :-D

  59. Instance created October 12, 2007 by iamghetto · · Score: 1

    Xeth,

    What truth do you know of the following statement?

    CENNS stands for Core Engine Neural Network System, and started as a research consolidation project under DARPA's Intelligent Systems and Software program in 1995. It was a joint effort with the RAND institute to leverage all A.I. research in the past 50 years under a single initiative.

    Project SUR paved the way for systems HARPY and HEARSAY-I, then abandoned until 1984, under the Strategic Computing Program. HEARSAY-II introduced the concept of a common database called "blackboard" that could be accessed from independent but mutually interacting knowledge sources. This is the concept under which CENNS instances operate today, but it was not implemented until 1999, under the Intelligent Integration of Information program, or I3. In July 16 of 2000, all Helios instances successfully passed the Turing test.

    Today, as before, CENNS funding continues to be spread across various program areas, but leadership is localized within the Information Exploration Office, or IXO. In November 3 2007, United Kingdom's QINETIQ launched its own CENNS in cooperation with IXO. CENNS technology was first utilized in project GILA for Air Traffic Control, and has been since leveraged in many other applications. Focus today, is on project NetSTAR.

    The main hardware powering CENNS resides at an undisclosed BlueGene/P supercomputer in Edwards Air Force Flight Test Center. QINETIQ's CENNS runs covertly out of the Jülich Research Centre, in Germany.

    1. Re:Instance created October 12, 2007 by julesh · · Score: 2, Informative

      I doubt he'll comment. But I will: it sounds like bullshit to me. Unless you can propose how exactly somebody might interface a neural network to a knowledge-based system. That's substantially more advanced than any ANN system I've encountered so far, and I've looked at some fairly esoteric ANN designs.

    2. Re:Instance created October 12, 2007 by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

      If the knowledge-based system is based on tagging, you can represent a group of tags as a point in a multidimensional tag space. Then you present lots of examples and let it figure out which subspace in that larger tag vector space is actually populated with nodes, so it can represent each as a vector small enough to feed to your classification algorithm (which can be an ANN) along with correct classification outputs. (A vector NOT in that subspace might represent a collection of tags that never occur together, like orgy and applepie.) Then for a given tag vector input you apply your transform to extract entropy and then let the classifier produce an output from the result.

    3. Re:Instance created October 12, 2007 by iamghetto · · Score: 1

      From what I understand, 80% of the computational power of the system is dedicated to scanning the connections between data. Approximately only 20% is used to create the artificial intelligence.

  60. seen here already ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  61. Humanity's Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If your country does not use it for evil (extremely doubtful), somebody else's country will. Better yours than theirs.

    Yes, that is the precise kind of thinking that demonstrates why mankind deserves to be wiped off the planet. Man, what a wonderful place the universe would be without this single species.

    1. Re:Humanity's Problem by Louis+Savain · · Score: 1

      Yes, that is the precise kind of thinking that demonstrates why mankind deserves to be wiped off the planet. Man, what a wonderful place the universe would be without this single species.

      I agree but no amount of self-righteous pronouncements is going to help. You are a member of the human species and, like it or not, you don't have a monopoly on goodness. We all got it coming. However, my religious convictions (bad thing to have on atheist Slashdot, I know) leads me to think there is a force out there that is going to set us straight. We need to learn a painful lesson first.

    2. Re:Humanity's Problem by Culture20 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Lions kill cubs sired by other lions. Penguins and monkeys steal babies from other parents when their babies die prematurely. Ants wage war. Almost all female mantises engage in cannibalism. We have no monopoly on evil. If you believe in a struggle between good and evil, humans are in a unique position clean up things; we understand we're evil and can admit it.

    3. Re:Humanity's Problem by syrinje · · Score: 1

      A wonderful place for whom? Or for what? If you didn't exist, how would you know? Just saying...

      --
      See that long UID - that's what you get for lurking too long
    4. Re:Humanity's Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hello anthropomorphism

    5. Re:Humanity's Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mmm. Pomposity and self-righteous self-importance.

      What makes you believe that we have any effect on the "universe" at all?

      The only things hurt by mankind's greed, arrogance, and xenophobia are mankind and any species immediately encountering mankind.

      In the meantime, your little prosceletic rant doesn't actually address the fact that the OP is right - people do bad things to other people. If everybody has the ability to counter said bad thing, then less people get hurt in the long run.

      Witness the complete absence of the prophesied WW3 nuclear eradication of mankind... Why? Nuclear proliferation and moral terror. The concept of using the technology, and the threat of retaliation, and the fear of the results of such use (on a greater than mortal level) prohibited the use of it to all minds, even the most power-hungry and xenophobic (at least after its initial application.)

    6. Re:Humanity's Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Lions killing lions is not evil. Intent (to kill for the sake of killing, for example) figures into the equation a great deal. Lions do not kill other lions' cubs out of vengeance or spite. To suggest that this is the case anthropomorphizes these animals. They do not have the capacity for the rational reflection required for an act to be actually evil.

    7. Re:Humanity's Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Lions kill cubs sired by other lions. Penguins and monkeys steal babies from other parents when their babies die prematurely. Ants wage war. Almost all female mantises engage in cannibalism. We have no monopoly on evil. If you believe in a struggle between good and evil, humans are in a unique position clean up things; we understand we're evil and can admit it. Maybe if these acts were performed by humans on other humans they could be considered 'evil', but from the creatures point of view it's all down to propagation of their DNA, not because they've chosen to do it out of malice.
    8. Re:Humanity's Problem by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      but from the creatures point of view it's all down to propagation of their DNA I'm not certain, but I think humans are the only beings that view any actions as propagation of their DNA. When a rooster sees a hen it likes, do you think it _expects_ chicks? I surmise it only has an urge to mate. Just like the lions have an urge to kill the cubs, and the ants have urges to fight the other ants.

      I'm curious though, if humans did similar actions for the express purpose of propagating their DNA over others' would that be ethic-neutral in your eyes? (Yes, I'm purposefully trying to invoke Godwin's law here)
  62. Cutting Edge AI?!? by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have the perfect project: A smart knife. Think about it Knives are deadly, deadly weapons. People get stabbed every day. Even innocent people stab themselves all while trying to prepare the simplest of dishes. The solution is simple: Build a knife that knows its target. With an active memory metal that blunts itself to the sharpness of a baseball bat if its positioned at anything other than its target. Furthermore it will dynamically alter its blade to ensure the optimal cut of the material, taking into consideration all of the grain, moisture, temperature, and density of the object. It also has zibgee wireless mesh networking built in to communicate with other intelligent kitchen objects. The cutting board will communicate with the knife to let it know how close it is to the board. It will speak with the oven to let it know the specific moisture and condition of the meat to allow the oven to set the temperature and time of cooking to an optimal level. It will also prob for bacterial, viral of prion content communicating with any compatible devices to warn the user of the danger.

    The smart knife. Cutting edge AI at its finest. Prospecitive investers, feel free to contact me @ bill_AT_ultimatesalsaparty_DOT_COM

    --
    Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
  63. Daisy by giltwist · · Score: 1

    I was always fond of the Daisy Chatbot, and I even spent a month once training her. The one thing that I felt always kept Daisy from progressing beyond fitful bursts of 5-year-old conversation was that you could never identify good responses from bad responses. The idea of generating a language database from scratch is downright brilliant compared to the programmed-response systems that float around. The problem is that there is no "evolutionary pressure" as it were. I think the next step in making AI more realistic is some sort of inherant reward/punishment system. After all, if you look at the development of cognition in humans, that's the next stage after basic language acquisition. A 3 year old can understand words and maybe even string a few together, but its not until 4 or 5 when the child learns that some words aren't appropriate that they move on to real dialogue and not just babbling.

    1. Re:Daisy by conspirator57 · · Score: 1

      what's punishment? losing processor time?

      feh!

      --
      "If still these truths be held to be
      Self evident."
      -Edna St. Vincent Millay
  64. no company to recommend, but by ridgecritter · · Score: 1

    I'd recommend that DARPA put its bucks into AI development that embodies evolutionary processes. After all, the only existence proof of intelligence we have is us, having these various (supposedly) intelligent interactions. How did we get to this point? Basically, take hydrogen, stir for ~13Gy under the conditions of natural selection (variance + selection + inheritance = evolution) and say "Hi" to your neighbor. No directing intelligence required, no infinitely-recursive homunculus problem, etc. - just dumb atoms and energy and time and feedback. What seems lacking (to this observer, not a practitioner) in AI development is an interface that allows a human to provide feedback to a nascent AI as to what's an intelligent response and what's not. Like..."No, objects tossed in the air don't generally stay there, go review your physics and mechanics databases"...and..."Yes, there are probably strong influences of genetics (low mirror neuron count) and environment (early childhood exposure to lead, manganese, and/or abuse) in determining the propensity of humans toward violence. Check out XX J. Neurophys. and YY Pharmacol Biochem and Behavior, get back to me and tell me what you think." We know evolution made at least one intelligent species. We're pretty sure that happened in the absence of any guiding intelligence. If we want to make a genuine AI (i.e., something smarter than we, with better abilities to predict and control reality), why not use evolution, the only process known to have succeeded, at least once, in creating intelligence from pretty much nada.

  65. Re:COSA Cube by Louis+Savain · · Score: 1

    LOL. You're funny. Why stay anonymous, though? Every artist should sign his or her work, no?

  66. Platas by AlgorithMan · · Score: 1

    we are working on integrating cutting edge planners (currently the award winning fast forward planner FF, see http://members.deri.at/~joergh/ff.html ) with controllers for dynamic worlds, like Golog (this means we make robots, that react to changes in the world, decide faster what to do, to achieve a goal) http://www.computational-logic.org/content/projects/wisslogc.php?id=53

    --
    The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
  67. A neural processor. by Grimace1975 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I am actually working on an neural processor. It is primarily, a platform for developing neural applications as appose to an application itself. Similar to how a database provides middle ware functionality. And temporarily coined Neurox.

    Neurox is subdivided into two parts:
    Firstly a database where neurons have position and are allowed to move or create new connections (plasticity) in a more permanent manner. This can be a slower process. And secondly a processing node, or cluster of nodes, Where a slice of the stored network is processed. Certain optimizations can be made because of the importance of distance or time of travel, rather than cartesian location. Just the lengths between connection, and there fore travel time is needed for processing, 3d coordinates are not required. A fully parallel environment must also be provided where all interactions occur at once. Otherwise certain critical behaviors will not occur, such as: cyclic interactions, which will spiral to there death. A simple method is used to provide the parallelism, similar to cellular automata processors. A derivative of time is taken: all objects have a before-state and after-state, evaluations are made based on before-state, and results are stored in after-state, when a series of evaluations have completed then after-state becomes before-state and the cycle is repeated. Derived time has advanced.

    • Systems Required:
    • Parallel processing
    • Plasticity in neuron locations, connection and strengths
    • Point to Point, as well as spacial communications. Synapse(point-to-point) and aquas(spatial)communications irrespectively.
    • Source of neural stimulations
    • Externally defined neuron behavior. with system provided storage and thread space.

    -- Not dedicated to it. last posting is sorta old, also developed a extremely small footprint xml like processor called XOL(extensible out-of-band language) for the processing side (uses out of band data instead on in-band like xml): http://sourceforge.net/projects/neurox/


    Sky Morey
    moreys@digitalev.com
    Digital Evolution Group
    Overland Park, KS 66210
  68. Mentifex anyone? by jimmydevice · · Score: 1

    I've got a re-purposed real-doll running mentifex on a 6502, It even does the dishes!

  69. Call me silly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I found the terminator movies quite believable; save for the time-travel aspect.

    True AI will be beyond our control. A true artificial intelligence will be able to write (or modify) its own AI algorithms.

    I just hope if somebody succeeds, they give it a good starting point. That is, a well-rounded education and reasonable moral compass.

    I know at the present time, such concerns are largely hypothetical. Thing is, we can never be sure how well-defined the line will be.

  70. Just out of curiosity by stainlesssteelpat · · Score: 1

    Assuming that somebody actually cracks this (true AI), and assuming they were from the states; what would happen if they open sourced or gave it to another Govt other than their own? Would it instantly fall under the tech restrictions that the US seems to lay on anything remotely advanced, like VISTA? I'm just asking, not trolling. My tinfoil hat prickles when an institution like DARPA starts poking around, that's all.

    --
    War is the statesman's game, the priest's delight, the lawyer's jest, the hired assassin's trade.- Shelley
  71. consultant? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Really? Or are you submitting an SBIR or STTR and hoping to find something to use to build proposal on?

  72. THE SINGULARITY IS NEAR... by n3v · · Score: 1

    .. THE CENTER OF A BLACK HOLE!

    *duh*

    In all honesty, Ray Kurzweil comes to mind..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Kurzweil

  73. I've already done this and more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've actually built an AI that has achieved (almost) human levels of intelligence. It is self-aware, capable of debating with other humans and has passed the Turing test. Unfortunately, it's a Canadian project, so DARPA can't have it. If you want to look the project up it's code name is 'Robo-Harper'.

    There are a few problems: it lacks realistic human features (particularly skin, we try covering it with makeup, but that only partially helps, the hair also looks like that of a Lego man); it has a propensity for gullibility and self-gratification; the bot also has problems with large numbers of interrupts (we have a work-around for this: he just goes out via the fire exit, to avoid the crowds).

    So there you have HarperBot: it could almost be mistaken for a human (once we get the bugs ironed out)!

  74. hi by JRP07 · · Score: 1

    Who hired you as DARPA consultant??

  75. Reveal military content of DARPA by beachdog · · Score: 1
    DARPA is short for "Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration." yes?

    DARPA is a United States Military organization yes?

    Any useful AI project coming to your attention will be used for military purposes, yes?

    Does any US government non-military organization have a budget similar to yours? Is anybody else shopping for AI ideas to help with the equally hard work of building and working toward peace?

  76. Robots Don't kill people. People kill people by Louis+Savain · · Score: 1

    You assume that when nations or corporations develop AIs that are actually useful, or are capable of doing such things that they will be able to control them.

    You say this because there's something about how true intelligence works that escapes your understanding. All trial-and-error, general intelligences learn to behave through a motivational mechanism based on reward and punishment. Why should anybody build and raise an AI and motivate it to kick its master's ass? We humans are stupid but not that stupid, especially since we will be smart enough to build the damn things. The idea that higher intelligence necessarily means a desire to dominate others of lesser intelligence is nonsense even among humans. Ask any mother who runs to feed her baby at the slightest whimper. Desires are always born out of motivation. Just because some humans are motivated to dominate and enslave others does not mean that every intelligent agent must be similarly motivated. Our robots will serve us to the best of their abilities, regardless of their intelligence. If we are good, we'll have utopia. If not, we'll have hell. That's all.

    In conclusion, let me say that all the doomsday prophecies about intelligent machines running amok and destroying humanity are pure BS, in my opinion. To use a tired cliche, robots won't kill people, people will kill people, like they always have.

    1. Re:Robots Don't kill people. People kill people by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 1

      All trial-and-error, general intelligences learn to behave through a motivational mechanism based on reward and punishment. Why should anybody build and raise an AI and motivate it to kick its master's ass? We humans are stupid but not that stupid

      You're naivity is hilarious, given the fact that some of the most advanced robot technology we have nowadays has been developed for the explicit purpose of killing people.
    2. Re:Robots Don't kill people. People kill people by brilanon · · Score: 1
    3. Re:Robots Don't kill people. People kill people by Louis+Savain · · Score: 1

      You're naivity is hilarious, given the fact that some of the most advanced robot technology we have nowadays has been developed for the explicit purpose of killing people.

      I don't see where we disagree. This is precisely my point. Robots do what we tell them to do.

    4. Re:Robots Don't kill people. People kill people by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 1
      Yeah, I don't think we disagree much, but still there is some points I want to add instead of working ;)

      Current battle robots aren't intelligent. Once they are intelligent, they will at one point or another have to find out by their own reasoning whether they ought to kill a human or not---for example, kill one human to prevent a thousand other humans being killed, and all this blabla.

      Of course, you can hard-code something like Asimov's laws, but notwithstanding the resulting dilemmas known from the Sci-Fi literature, the "intelligent" robots built by the military will probably not have any built-in never kill any human switch.

  77. First and foremost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Any AI must have at it's core a sense of survival. Without this, nothing else will function effectively. Take a human being: when they lose their will to live, they self destruct and even commit suicide. Put this program at the base of your AI, and watch...

  78. Experimental test of Ockham's Razor by Baldrson · · Score: 1

    Peter Turney (whose programs have achieved human level performance on the SAT verbal analogy test) and I have been discussing an experimental test of Ockham's Razor in AI. This is a question that is both fundamentally important and experimentally tractable.

    I recommend you read our discussion of an experiment to test Ockham's Razor (and related theories such as MDL, algorithmic probability...).

  79. Emergent Languages by SecondHand · · Score: 1


    One of the principle objectives of this research is to identify the cognitive capabilities that artificial agents must posses to enable, in a population of such agents, the emergence and evolution of a language that exhibits characteristic features identified in natural languages.

    http://www.emergent-languages.org/

  80. HOW ABOUT A DEFINITION TO START by cenc · · Score: 1

    How about a definition of AI, so everyone is not running around pissing money in the breeze? Really, I am not joking. I have spent 12 years studying Philosophy of Language and AI, and I would challenge anyone in the field to give me a coherent definition. Hell, even a goal. When we built the atom bomb, we had a goal. When we went to the moon we had a goal. Where or what is the goal of AI? The 'we will know it when we see it' does not count.

  81. Graph rewriting by tim_samshuijzen · · Score: 1

    IMHO, true AI can only be achieved by using graphs as the basic underlying data structure and graph rewriting as the basic principle of instructions. Graphs are universal data structures as all other data structures can be represented as a graph. One project based on these principles is OutOfBrain, which makes use of Graph Rewriting Agents. I think we will see more graph oriented cognitive architectures in the years to come.

  82. If you really are working on all fronts by Sun+Chi · · Score: 1

    Review the work of people in Strong AI projects, specifically AGI (Artificial General Intelligence).

    (full disclosure: I work in this field)

  83. No hope for AI without AEQ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First you have to create artifical emotion (A-EQ). Without that AI cannot exist. This is why military AI programs never got anywhere.

    The japanese are not stupid putting all those teenage catgirls into their manga and anime. First you have to feel and experience the world and then progress slowly in understanding it.

  84. Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've heard about an internal project at the private government contractor Aperture Science. Not sure if it's what you're looking for but you should check it out.

  85. Looking for some ARTIFICIAL Intelligence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Welcome to Slashdot. I am sure you will find a whole gamut of intelligence that doesn't even begin to fringe on being anything close to real.

  86. Cyc corp by Yvanhoe · · Score: 1

    Cyc corp, but it is already working for NSA, has the most advanced AI system I am aware of. I am not sure Cyc is an improvement over Eurisko, its predecessor, but well, it managed to make its creator raise a few dozen million dollars.

    Also, dear DARPA official, don't you think that an AI researcher could have ethical reservation about working with the US Army ? I don't try to troll here, this story is already tagged 'skynet', don't you think that many AI researchers are very worried about the mix of military tools and AIs ?

    --
    The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
  87. My own AI project by BountyX · · Score: 1

    Im working on an augmented visual display system that uses a network of firing signals to forge 'paths' in an ever-evolving AI processor for visual recongition. My goal is to completly replace my pc mouse so I can dominate my foe in Warcraft III. Stay away from the USEAST servers or prepare to be dominated.

    --
    Trying to install linux on my microwave, but keep getting a kernel panic...
  88. A few resources I haven't seen mentioned by synaptic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have had an interest in AI over the years and have found Gerald Edelman's books particularly insightful.

    See:
    _Neural Darwinism_ (ISBN 0-19-286089-5)
    _Bright Air Brilliant Fire: On the Matter of the Mind_ (ISBN 0-465-00764-3)

    The ideas in these books might be outdated by now but I doubt it. I think the works of Norbert Weiner are still relevant.

    I particularly liked the NEAT project, however crude it may be. I like the changing neural topology via genetic evolution concept and think this is consistent with what Edelman tells us really happens in biology.

    See: http://www.cs.ucf.edu/~kstanley/neat.html

    My other suggestion is to define the many different scopes of the AI. For some, it seems the bar has been placed at natural language processing and full-on human cognition. Without the frame of reference and body of experience of a human though, this seems to be an unrealistic goal. I just don't think we can "program" a computer to do it. To pull it off, this would seem to require duplicating the nervous system of a human to enough of a degree that the AI can experience sensory input compatible with our shared human experience. Think about how many years it takes for a human to reach the level of intelligence we are seeking in AI. I don't think there are any overnight solutions here. We need to teach it like a baby, child, adolescent, and adult. While we may be able to speed train an AI, it may be that there is something to the lack of interesting input that enables us to reflect and refine our mental models of the world. The AI must also continue to interact with the human world in order to stay current.

    But AI doesn't have to match a human. There are much simpler organisms we can model as a start that may pay off in other ways. Nature seems to excel at reusing novel patterns and we should exploit that code/model library. The AI produced from this research may not be able to hold a conversation, but it can probably keep an autonomous robot alive and on it's mission, whatever that may be. And I think it's a better foundation for the eventual human equivalent and beyond.

    For some possible hardware platforms, see:

    http://www.neurotechnology.neu.edu/
    http://biorobots.cwru.edu/
    http://birg.epfl.ch/

  89. another website by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You might want to look at www.novamente.net for their work in artificial general intelligence.

  90. some very interesting work here by veraguth · · Score: 1
  91. Linux by Hackerlish · · Score: 1

    > If DARPA is now so desperate as to seek out totally random and unknown readers of slashdot...my god the US is screwed.

    Stop your whining. Oh hello DARPA. It has to be Linux. Everything Linux. And Perl. If you use Linux and Perl you can do anything. I heard someone wrote a neuron library for Perl. Anyway, go to your boss and say 'LINUX AND PERL'. Hope this helps.

  92. DARPA ? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Umm this guy works for DARPA and hes asking for help on here? Something is amiss.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:DARPA ? by ZonkerWilliam · · Score: 1

      Seriously, I believe someone's blowing the proverbial smoke up someone's often mentioned derrière.

    2. Re:DARPA ? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      "I work at the NSA and am doing a research project on desktop encryption.... "

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  93. Why AI? by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 1
    Intelligence is neither required nor desirable in military applications.

    That being said, I have been working on some rock-solid, cutting edge AI code for detecting enemy combatants for some years now, and I'm willing to share the first beta here:

    10 print "Are you friend or foe?"

    20 input a$

    30 if a$="foe" then goto 50

    40 goto 10

    50 shoot at target

    Unfortunately, the code is still a bit buggy, and we desparately need some funding.

    1. Re:Why AI? by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 1
      Actually, I forgot to say that the latest prototype even uses fuzzy logic! Change line 30 to:

      30 if a$="foe" or rnd>.7 then goto 50

      and, for improved performance, add the following line:

      60 goto 50

  94. Been Working on Just Such a Project for years by curmudgeon99 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    An AI system must at its heart understand the two hemispheres of the human brain and how they process information differently. Though, for example, both hemispheres receive inputs from both eyes, how they process information is radically different. The right brain is looking first at the outline of an object. Then, as that outline has been sketched out, it feeds that information up the column and more specificity is gained. The left hemisphere--being used to process information in a linear sequential manner--looks at individual items inside the image and tries to name them. These two separate processes are then passing information constantly across the corpus callosum and that is how we get our consciousness. An AI system must do this cross pollination. I have been working on various aspects of this idea for years in the Godwhale Project. The first stop on anyone's journey to write this code is no one else than Dr. Roger Sperry. [Nobel Prize 1980].

  95. NONE by Proto23 · · Score: 1

    You can twist words as long as you want but there is no Artificial Intelligence. At best you have an intelligent calculator.

    1. Re:NONE by Scratch-O-Matic · · Score: 1

      I don't know jack about AI, but it seems to me that the brain is a machine running on chemistry. Why can't we, at some point in the future, make one of those ourselves?

      --


      Evil is the money of root.
    2. Re:NONE by Peeteriz · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and in the same way there is no Natural Intelligence. At best you have an intelligent lump of neurons.

  96. Awfully broad goals: by smchris · · Score: 1

    "understanding biological brains, creating AI systems, and investigating the fundamental nature of intelligence."

    Maybe begin with a bit of background on the complexity of shotgunning the task: some Hofstadter, maybe some Dennett, maybe something like John Pollock's "How to Build a Person: A Prolegomenon".

    Then define, in the sense of a formal systems analysis, the #1 task DARPA would have an AI system perform in 5-10 years and then specialize and concentrate and specialize and concentrate some more in research and funding on how that task gets performed in biological systems and could be simulated in artificial systems. Perhaps both directions working toward each other.

    I have the suspicion "AI" will be christened when we decide the interconnections of subsystems we are barely beginning to create add up to complex adaptive performances that make us say, "Hey, that's pretty intelligent". But, for now, I'd really concentrate on the subsystems.

    So what subsystem would most enhance DARPA's intelligence?

  97. State of the Art AI by tillerman35 · · Score: 2, Funny

    You: I'm a consultant with DARPA.

    ChatBot: How does that make you feel?

    You: I'm working on an initiative to push the boundaries of neuromorphic computing (i.e. artificial intelligence.

    ChatBot: Hello, Working.

    You: The project is designed to advance ideas all fronts, including measuring and understanding biological brains, creating AI systems, and investigating the fundamental nature of intelligence.

    ChatBot: Please tell me more, Working.

    You: I'm conducting a wide search of these fields, but I wanted to know if any in this community know of neat projects along those lines that I might overlook.

    ChatBot: Hello, Conducting.

    You: Maybe you're working on a project like that and want to talk it up?

    ChatBot: I don't know. How would you answer this question?

    You: No promises (seriously), but interesting work will be brought to the attention of the project manager I'm working with.

    ChatBot: How does that make you feel, Conducting?

    You: If you want to start up a dialog, send me an email, and we'll see where it goes.

    ChatBot: We'll see where it goes.

    You: I'll also be reading the comments for the story.

    ChatBot: I don't understand. Could you be a little more specific?

  98. you want us to help you do bad things? by Uzik2 · · Score: 1

    You're working on AI that will be used to remove all remain conscience for warriors?
    And you want us to help you?

    --
    -- Programming with boost is like building a house with lego. It's a cool but I wouldn't want to live in it
  99. Umm. ARPANet by Tungbo · · Score: 1

    Ever heard of it? It kinda morphed into this other thing called the Internet...

  100. use GPUs by happyjack27 · · Score: 1

    I see computer AI as glorified complex statistical models that use some form of online gradient descent approach to tweak their parameters.

    That being said, if the algorithms are highly data-parrallel, as one would imagine they should be (or should be able to be made so), a GPGPU like NVIDIA's 9800s or ATI's equivalents would give at least an order of magnitude improvement in processing power. (and price/performance ratio)

    Seems to me it would be the only way to go for advanced research projects dealing with computer AI.

    1. Re:use GPUs by brilanon · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up

  101. BICA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, you might want to review a bit of history...
    In 2005, DARPA started a program called Biologically-Inspired Cognitive Architectures (BICA) that managed to pull in a fair number of the top cognitive psychology/computer science/cognitive neuroscience researchers who study computational modeling of cognition (particularly those who lean towards a Newellian "Unified Theory of Cognition" approach). They got everyone excited, got them together in collaborative groups spanning multiple universities and multiple theoretical approaches, and then... walked away.
    The memorial service, er, afterparty, er, resurrection (such as it is) is happening here:
    http://binf.gmu.edu/~asamsono/bica/

  102. reconfigurable liquid circuits by happyjack27 · · Score: 1

    reconfigurable liquid circuits

  103. A Brain isn't Intelligent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A tree knows which way is up. How?

  104. Westinghouse by kcdoodle · · Score: 1

    I worked on an AI project for Westinghouse from 1986 to 1997. The project is still in operation today.

    I learned that on the outset, real Artificial Intelligence is actually Artificial Stupidity.

    You start with a problem domain, say something small and simple like, a 1000 Megawatt steam powered turbine and electric generator setup. Then you spend years creating a knowledge base directly and indirectly from the designers. You also create a programming language that makes easily manipulable "piece-wise linears" and start coding.

    After a few years you realize, WOW, there is a lot we didn't think of.

    Then you get deep into sensors, input, filtering, deadbanding, after a while things look manageable. Now you are ready for real AI. Everything else beforehand was just getting ready. The system runs. You get data, there are "events". NOW you get the experts to look at WHAT THE SYSTEM SEES, and the AI is improved. (It is a learning cycle.)

    If the system has sufficient funding, it can survive. This is where most AI projects DIE. You might not consider this "Real AI" but, let's face it, even if you have to "teach" the system, it still LEARNS. When the system can teach itself, we will no longer be necessary.

    --

    - I live the greatest adventure anyone could possibly desire. - Tosk the Hunted
  105. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why doesn't anyone create a system that truly mimics the human brain? I'm talking "Conscious" and "Unconscious" systems. Isn't that really where intelligence comes from? The two systems check with each other.. one gives you a gut feeling and the other gives you a rational response. Last time I checked, most people weren't mindless drones functioning on odds alone. But then again, we don't always go with our gut feeling.

    And to those who don't think we have the power to make AI systems... Have you read up on neurons? We literally think in 0's and 1's. We have all the tools needed to mimic the brain. There's just that X factor about intelligence that we need to figure out, and I'm betting the solution will be elegant.

  106. Regarding the fundamental nature of intelligence.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    As has been mentioned above, AI has historically been focused on soving small problems, and has generally had the problem of missing the forest for the trees. Two groups that have been working on full blown general artificial intellegence are Novamente and The Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence.

    http://www.novamente.net/
    http://www.singinst.org/

    Both are working towards an archetecture that would allow true sentience to emerge once the system has gained enough experience. While SIAI is focused on theoretical research, raising AI awareness, and fundraising; Novamente is focused on actual implementation, and have been working largely in the Second Life realm to avoid all those nasty robotics and computer vision issues.

    Another promising company is Cyc.

    http://www.cyc.com/

    They started hard coding facts about life and the universe into a database over 20 years ago, and in recent years have begun to reach that critical threshold where the system knows enough to learn more on its own, and reason about the knowledge it already has in order to infer new information. It then checks its ideas for acuracy through searching google.

  107. Here is one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://naniteworld.com/npp.pdf

  108. AI Project Ideas? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hm, well there's always the idea of an ethical robot, right?

    You know, determine if it's course of action would likely effect a war-crime, violation of human rights, etc...

    It could determine the contents of it's 'weapon load' and de-arm the weapons if they are of a cluster bomb type liable to harm civilians at a later date... Or determine the nature of the target it is given, and like-wise de-arm if it is a civilian infrastucture, or determined to have civilian non-combatants within or nearby it. There could even be a secure (quantum?) link with secure servers operated by the United Nations to determine if it's actions are actually sanctioned by the "International Community" (but which one...?) or would be a violation of International Law.
    Wow, I mean the list of possibilties could go on and on, huh?

  109. Mad Scientist needed: Apply within by ZonkerWilliam · · Score: 1
    Seems DARPA is looking to hire, and I thought Slashdot would be the perfect place to look. At least this is more reasonable.

    Look here for more info.

  110. Two Neural Net Projects by OldSoldier · · Score: 1

    There are 2 things I've been curious about in the Neural Network area for several years. I'm only a casual reader of this field and not a researcher, so these could have been studied already but I haven't heard anything about them, so....

    Firstly, assuming that a neural network starts out as a homogeneous collection of identical neurons and that, after training on a particular task, the network develops specialized sub-areas to handle various sub-parts of the task then the question arises "why did THIS sub-area of the network specialize in THIS sub-task?". Or, to put it another way, if all "sub-areas" of the network are equally likely to become a specialist in some particular sub-task then the struggle between 2 different sub-areas to become THE sole surviving specialist for a given sub-task seems to imply a certain inefficiency in the training/learning process. If this effect is real (and is still a problem in modern neural network research) then it seems that research into forcing sub-areas to specialize sooner will allow the network to spend more time on the actual training task and less on the "in-fighting" for control of particular sub-tasks.

    Secondly, I believe all electronic neural networks have a training phase followed by an operating phase. Once in the operating phase, further learning/training stops. But I do not believe biological neural networks work like this. I believe biological networks learn and operate at the same time. I'd like to see an electronic neural network that can learn and operate at the same time. (Maybe that'd require "sleep" in between operating cycles?)

  111. Re:Answer to the fundamental nature of intelligenc by OwnedByTwoCats · · Score: 1

    The Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything is 42. No more searching is needed.

    The (corrupted) Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything is "What do you get when you multiply six by nine?".

    HTH. HAND.

  112. Needed: Competitions and Benchmarks by RandCraw · · Score: 1

    In my opinion, easily the best way to advance *any* technology is to draw a line in the sand and then challenge others to cross it, either through competition, or better yet, by surpassing the status quo in ways that are quantifiably 'better' than before.

    DARPA has achieved some of its best bang for the buck in its recent robotic grand challenges, significantly advancing the field of mobile robotics and doing it with great fanfare. The fact that the progress is visible and practical also makes a world of difference. Look at the popularity of battling (mindless) robots.

    Therefore, if DARPA wants to advance other forms of AI, I suggest two action items:

    1) Create other grand challenge competitions. Robotics is a nice dynamic medium for demonstrating AI advances and overcoming real-world obstacles. Thus other forms of robotic competition might also be interesting, for example: mobile agent coordination, as in a strategic-driven variant of Robocup, or coordination of ground/air/sea forces, perhaps at battalion level -- a fairly natural application of Future Combat Systems development).

    Of course, nonsituated agents also have potential. Competition, conversation, and collaboration among software bots would allow many folks to compete who don't have the resources of a CMU or Stanford. And SoftBots would also better explore other forms of AI, like speech/NLP.

    2) Define some standard performance benchmarks (speed and/or accuracy) so that professionals can have a target to shoot for. Each of these should measure a different form of AI like speech & NLP, planning, vision, pattern recognition (like USPS character recognition), etc. These might also include metrics derived from the competitions in action item #1 (e.g. sporting events, like slaloms or gymnastics routines).

    I suggest that DARPA launch a Request For Information to the AI research community for suggestions on AI benchmarks and competitions.

    As practically useless as the Turing Test has been, it has garnered a disproportionate amount of attention over the years merely because "it is there". But AI research needs to walk before it tries to run. What better way is there to do that than to compete, not with humans nor even simpler life forms, but with other "AIs"? Perhaps the Turing Test should become Turing Match Play, with the winner being not "which is the man", but "which is the better man". (Or woman.)

            Randy

  113. Artificial Life by tj111 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Artificial Life is a relatively newer idea than just Artificial Intelligence. Artificial Intelligence is basically revolving around writing software that can mimic intelligence, although current techniques make that quite a difficult goal. Artificial Life sounds more like something you'd be interested in. As described by the ISCID:

    Artificial Life does overlap with Artificial Intelligence but the two areas are very different in their approach and history. Artificial Life is concerned with specific life-oriented algorithms such as genetic algorithms which can mimic nature and its laws and therefore relates more to biology, whereas Artificial Intelligence tends to look at how human intelligence can be replicated, therefore relating more to psychology. ( http://www.iscid.org/encyclopedia/Artificial_Life)
    1. Re:Artificial Life by digital7 · · Score: 1

      More of a thought than help....has anyone (including yourself) looked into the potential for artificial subconscious research. I think there could be a lot of use for a system that mimicked the human subconscious in every area, especially military application. I would guess this would entail a lot of gathering of random bits of seemingly unimportant data and putting this together to build a bigger picture. A very abstract, almost unrealistic idea but I believe it can be done, due in part to some of the research I have done in this area.

  114. Re:I, for one, by colmore · · Score: 1

    I mean, that's pretty cool. But conversation bots are just a bunch of clever tricks. There's not much more going on at a fundamental level than a grammar system and a dictionary.

    --
    In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
  115. What seems obvious and second nature to us... by 3seas · · Score: 1

    ... is not so obvious and second nature to a machine/computer.

    Abstraction Physics where A.I. can be shown to be a byproduct of simply automating enough to create the illusion of intelligence.

    Consider people you might know but think they are "artificial" in their knowledge presentation... that they don't fully understand what they claim to know.

  116. suddenly, a non-rubbish comment! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Xeth, if you are studying the AI field currently you should be aware of the AI sub-field known as AGI(where the G stands for general). This past March the first AGI conference was held see

    http://www.agi-08.org/

    In academics I know of the following research groups are interested in AGI and are worthy of attention in my opinion:

    http://sitemaker.umich.edu/soar/home
    http://www.cassimatis.com/
    http://ccrg.cs.memphis.edu/

    All 3 were represented at the AGI-08 conference. I will plug for CCRG (link 3), see
    http://ccrg.cs.memphis.edu/tutorial/index.html

    for a tutorial on it.

  117. Open Mind Commen Sense by PurpleBob · · Score: 1

    Open Mind Common Sense. A project at the MIT Media Lab to collect an open ontology of general knowledge.

    One non-obvious cool aspect of the site is that if you create an account, it will ask you questions that are intended to fill in gaps in its knowledge.

    --
    Win dain a lotica, en vai tu ri silota
  118. I have a few novel approaches.. by Slicker · · Score: 1

    I've been trying to code cognition since about 1986 (I was 16). I studied existing literature heavily around 1988 and 1989, before concluding the directions were fundamentally flawed. At that point I decided to avoid existing literature in AI and focused more on psychology, cybernetics, physics, ancient history and pre-history, and above all, neural science.

    With many starts and stops in a variety of directions and false hopes, I have collected a small set of interesting approaches... I will give a broad overview (overly simplified) of my favorite three (from least to most favorite):

    (3) A text pattern parsing engine that results in something very much like jabberwacky (although I have no knowledge of the philosophy behind Jabberwacky). In my case, I right-directionally parse statement-response patterns into a chronologic tree. Then, I parse the cross-section of the tree (seeking semantic patterns) of recent statement-response patterns. This approach can have numerous variations each of which trades off different problems... It's really just a fun puzzle system for me to ponder.

    (2) A Contextual Interpreter--this is an interpretive programming language based on a refined subset of English. It has very few keywords and is strongly object-oriented. The language is also, in third person. E.g. "a car" instantiates a "car" object while "the car" references the nearest (in context) "car" object instantiated. "color of the car" or "car's color" references the "color" attribute of the object "car". An attribute is merely another object in the context of its super. Methods are determined by positioning in the syntax, such as "a person drives the car"--the wording between thus-far known objects is interpreted as a method. That's method execution. Method description is like "When a person drives a car: The wheels turn. The car moves. The engine is on." ... Richly built contexts then allows one to ask questions or propose scenerios and get common-sense-ish answers and/or implications out of it. For example, if an object (such as a method) is requested on an object that doesn't have it, it'll reach back and grab the nearest in context. For example, "driving a person" where only "driving a car" has been defined. Everything about driving a car can still be applied so long as the person has its pre-requisits. Can "The car moves." work for "The person moves"? If so, that method is useableon "person", too. This is effectively mimickry--a powerful method of learning and essential for innovation. We learn by mimicking someone else's actions (internally modeling the other doing the action, then switching the model of myself with the model of the other doing the action). The idea here is that you can switch any two objects in these internal models--not just yourself with someone else but a rock for a hammer.. and the model will or will not break down, depending upon its application... as I exampled with driving a car verses driving a person. Both a rock and a hammer, could potentially drive a nail into wood. This approach is more than a fun puzzle. It has very potential uses.

    (1) My favorite approach of all, however, derives strongly from neural science. Contrary to popular opinion, I take the point of view that a single neuron can be a fully functional brian for a relatively complex animal--given the right environment (around the neuron). I focus strongly on the molecular level of analysis to hypothesize around how a neuron forms, strengthens, weakens, and destroys afferent connects, the maintenance of short term and long term potentiation in each receptor, and the determination of whether a receptor will be polarizing or hyperpolarizing. I have a theory very solidly based on literature (mostly Erick Kendall's work) for everything but polarizing vs hyperpolarizing (I have concepts for this, just not good backing in literature). A also have a "Central Process" (CP) theory for cognition. Take the view that the general nature of neural substrate all can be fed signals ("co

  119. No Military AI Applications! by EverStoned · · Score: 1

    I am, but I think it should be absolutely fucking illegal for anybody from DARPA to go anywhere near AI implementations. Making minds to kill? Despicable.

    1. Re:No Military AI Applications! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Guess you've never heard of boot camp.

  120. Artificial humor by Ethermeme · · Score: 1

    University of Cincinnati doctoral student Julia Taylor has done some interesting work on artificial humor, she gave a presentation about it to the Cincinnati Programmers Guild in December 2007.

    http://cincypg.org/events/2007/12

    http://homepages.uc.edu/~tayloj8/

  121. FOUR by neo · · Score: 1

    I thought it was 4.

  122. It's a long shot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But you might take a look at some things such as nextgen air traffic control such as control by exception. Control by exception is the idea that computers can take care of most traffic, but that a control is still needed to supervise the sector because the computer will not always correctly separate traffic and hence a human is better able to handle errors/exceptions to the rules. This is the only time I've posted I usually just use Slashdot to stay informed. So if you have questions feel free to contact me via 703-942-9541...yay grandcentral

  123. okiejonwilliams by okiejonwilliams · · Score: 1

    I think these two items are foundational for research in ideas and AI:

    Variations on a Theme as the Crux of Creativity
    by Douglas Hofstadter

    ideonomy.mit.edu
    Patrick Gunkel

    --
    jona@mit.edu http://www.leaflabs.com
  124. That is called development by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And in a properly functioning economy, development is the purview of industry.

    Academia does research, and perhaps a small amount of development (have to teach the engineers). Industry does some research and the majority of development. Development is difficult and often involves a lot of nasty, less interesting work. That is why it costs money (needs to be paid for)

    Development is an investment. Proper intellectual property laws (not the nonsense we have) protect this investment appropriately.

    (In addition, the IP laws we have make development by individuals or academia almost econmically impossible. Who wants to be sued or harrassed for patent infringement for doing something for free?)

    If your company does not want to invest in development, then that is their failing. It is in fact the failing of our economic and social structure. Companies have become completely divorced from producing value in their rush to generate (paper)profits. Not at all the same thing.

  125. Startcat project at SDSU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://starcat.org/

    This is in its infancy, but it is an interesting way of thinking about what AI could be... teach the computer to learn before anything else.

  126. Re:Cutting Edge AI?!? It already exists... by Bones3D_mac · · Score: 1

    It's called the MacBook Air. People have been slicing bread and cutting cakes with the thing for over a month now. Some people even claim to have sliced themselves open on the seemingly harmless laptop.

    --


    8==8 Bones 8==8
  127. Chatbot Game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A chatbot that you can improve by playing a game:

    http://chatbotgame.com

  128. You're tough to contact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Xeth,

    Slashdot, like its predecessors, has countless quiet readers who refuse to register and seldom (if ever) post.

    How do you expect people to "start a dialog" with you when you hide your email address?

  129. My project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is at subbot.org. It is a collection of independent agents that can communicate with each other in natural language. It currently includes agents such as ALICE, MegaHAL, Wordnet, Link grammar, Montylingua, as well as a logical inference agent of my own, and an agent that generates "In Soviet Russia" jokes. Each agent gives its response a score (indicating how much confidence it has in the response); a controller selects the response with the highest score. Agent scores can be modified at runtime - the intent is to modify the scores automatically based on user feedback so that the bot customizes itself to a particular user's preferences.

  130. Please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Put out that reefer, hippy.

  131. Missing the point by andrewwarrenau · · Score: 1

    What's the point of asking for projects so you can overlook them? Surely you can overlook them purely by remaining ignorant of their existence...

  132. Been There -- Done That by PATENT+OWNER · · Score: 1

    Two US patents have already been granted for true (Turing) language-simulation AI -- not that flaky neural net approach ... #6587846 & #7236963 ...
    More at
    http://www.emotionchip.net

    http://www.ethicalvalues.com

    Inventors BEWARE !! The Fed Gov't typically will not pay to use your patent -- You have to sue in Fed. Court...

    JLM

  133. "Cutting Edge?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To the author: Quit killing people. To the readers: Quit supporting the military industrial complex.

  134. a@a.tk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you sure, That you are from DARPA?

  135. Start off in a different direction by leecho0 · · Score: 1

    I would recommend that if darpa is serious about developing the first true AI that you start off something like angel funding for AI ideas, and get a bunch of different proposals that will be taken seriously. There are tons of people out there that have different ideas about true AI and how to do it. If you have any contact with AI academic world recently, you'll see a bunch of kinda interesting projects that have lost sight of true AI. Of course, outta the people who claim have solved AI, 49% are stupid, 49% are crazy, 99% are in for a big disappointment, and that last 1% are actually in the right direction. Kinda reminds you of proposals for startup companies huh? So support them like startups.

    Angel funding have proven that they are important to promote creativity without wasting a fortune. Give developers (with potential) some money, NDA's, and most importantly, if they seem like smart people, an open ear to their ideas. Don't just do stuff like Grand Challenges that only research institutions/big companies can enter.

    Well, that said, I'm actually very biased. Because I know how to solve AI =P. Of course, you prolly won't believe me, and I don't wanna share unless you sign an NDA. So, here's just a suggestion to think about.

    AI is the process of solving problems, like chess -- solve the problem of winning the game. Solving an arbitrary problem is HARD, so let's ignore that for now. Suppose you have solved the problem, you'll have to carry it out somehow. What is it called when you are doing something in a specific way? An algorithm. Right now, MDP's use policies -- you're in this state, do this. Classical planning gives you a sequence of actions. But Algorithms? CS? Programming? Why aren't the results of these problem solvers turing complete? No wonder what comes out of AI programs today are very domain specific.

    If you solved an arbitrary problem, you should be able to program it. AI can be called a program that makes programs. So here's the suggestion: start working on a programming language fit for AI -- the internal language that the AI brain will use. Programming languages today describe the process -- each program is compiled one specific way, and ran one specific way. Make a programming language that describes the algorithm, and only that. Whatever you program should give enough information about the problem you solve and nothing more. A rule of thumb is that if you can't use the language for a cook book, you need to work harder about eliminating the non-necessities. lchou1.blogspot.com

  136. First of all: Neuromorphic computing != AI by paratiritis · · Score: 1
    Neuromorphic computing and AI are not the same.

    There are many approaches to AI that don't try to emulate the human brain.

    You can emulate the human brain but try to produce something other than intelligent behavior (say a non-linear controller)

    It would help (both you and DARPA I suppose) if you knew what you wanted to do and got the terminology right first.

  137. Project ARS: neuro-psychoanalysis for AI! by Schnickschnack · · Score: 1

    Check out
    http://ars.ict.tuwien.ac.at/
    The trick is to introduce findings from psychoanalysis and neurology into AI. A totally new and promising approach. Is supposed to be used for intelligent buildings (ambient assisted living, etc.) one day.

  138. Emulate evolution by cudmore.mb · · Score: 1

    I recently began a project to emulate evolution through mutation and natural selection (survival of the fittest). Essentially one must create a virtual nature of bytes not atoms, a virtual computer, and execute a simple self-duplicating program in this virtual space, a program whose bytecode is interpreted and can spawn and execute new programs and mutate and modify itself, and one which must interact with the virtual environment in such a way as to gather materials for building a new organism (necessitate navigation and interaction to encourage development of complex behaviours). Impose the potential of death to create evolution, such that beneficial mutations are better able to survive and reproduce. To watch different concepts of evolution actually manifest themselves in a simplified universe and to see what sorts of behaviours develop in generations far older than the first organism (the bytecode of which I must write myself and assume that the case could randomly occur without my help) will be quite encouraging. Difficult to explain perhaps, but the idea may interest you.

  139. Douglas Hofstadter's students by linhares · · Score: 1

    If you're really serious, check out Phaeaco and this.

  140. Semantic Web by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you are really from DARPA, then you should (re)fund semantic web research.
    There was DARPA seed money for DAML+OIL, and now the EU is outspending the US
    by an order of magnitude on this. It's not going away, and the US is seriously
    lagging.