Slashdot Mirror
Handling Caller ID Spoofing?
An anonymous reader writes "A nice little old lady I know has had her number spoofed by some car warranty scammers. They're calling hundreds of potential victims per day pretending to use her phone number, and the angry ones call her back; some of them have even left death threats. She's terrified. Some well-intending anti-telemarketing folks have posted her address on the 'net as well. How can we figure out where these scammer bastards are, and what's the state of the current legislation to prevent caller ID spoofing? I called the FBI in Boston (near where she lives) and they said they can't help. She's called her phone company, but they said they can't help either. She's had the same number for over 50 years and doesn't want to change it." If the Feds can't or won't handle it, what's the best approach here?
I am in Maryland and myself, my girlfriend and my parents have all received these same calls
-Daver
Give us what you know about the scammer, though if you don't want to include the victimized phone number we can understand. Then just let Slashdot work its magic. The Scammers will be on their knees begging in no time...
Well good grief, the two exact entities who are supposed to take care of this kind of thing refuse, then just what is going on in this country?
I'd just call them both a few more times to see if there's anywhere to get, it's very clear laws have been broken.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
Bring the news media in on it, somebody a little more mainstream than Slashdot.
Then start making threats, and if the phonecalls are inter-state commerce it is a federal issue. Back them up against a wall and force them to act.
The nice old lady should learn how to be a ninja and vow to take revenge upon those who have wrong her.
Call local elected reps (state & federal) saying that you're unable to get anyone to deal with the issue. Call the FBI in DC as well. If she's getting interstate death threats, that's illegal and the FBI can call the people back. I've had good luck with my local FBI office (Ann Arbor) when I received an interstate death threat.
I get one or two of these car warranty scam calls a day, all from exactly the same number, hers or another victim's I would assume.
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
...why doesn't she just change her phone number?!
It surely seems like an easy solution to the problem, and she'll stop getting angry calls from random people. Not to mention the fact that the number will no longer be valid, and the spoofers will have to get a new number to fake. Though I wonder how they got her number in the first place. Someone randomly punch in numbers, or did they actually pick her out for some reason?
we need an angry mob to find these car warranty robo-caller bitches and give them hell. i get a call from them (from a different number each time) like once a week. you have to listen all the way to the end of the message to hear what button to press to be removed, and doing so doesn't appear to take you off the list. this is a clear violation of the do-not-call laws and i want in on a class action lawsuit to put them out of business. kthxbye.
The call can quite easily be traced back to where it came from -- even if it's voip in nature, at very least you can find the originating carrier and they can deal with their customer.
We run a very popular VoIP service (http://ironvoice.com) and tightly control caller id in a manner that still gives our customers flexibility but still imposes responsibility.
The FBI can certainly help, that's bogus. The phone company can certainly help, that's bogus as well. The phone company knows from which carrier the call came from and so on and so forth until they can pin down the offending carrier.
Legislation isn't the answer -- customer service is.
In Canada, we have a governing body similar to your FCC called the CRTC. Whenever we have such problems we can contact them and they'll conduct an investigation. So far I've put an end to three instances of harassing telemarketing / late night fax blitzing. I'd contact the FCC next, see what they have to say. Someone somewhere is in charge of moderating this...
You can use http://whocalled.us/ to coordinate investigation. Even though the number is spoofed, as long as they are using it consistently it is still an identifier. As everyone shares facts they discover it's possible to find the true identity.
Caller ID spoofing has become a real problem, but political representatives are too busy flashing around fake solutions to hyperinflated problems, like throwing more money at stopping the 9000 pedo penises from raping children over the internets.
If anyone has a technological solution, please post it, as we have more of a chance of fixing this stuff as engineers than the politicians do as legislators.
Doesn't this count as wire fraud?
Mind you this practice will get attention when the numbers used are not those of citizens but those used by government lobbying corporations.
"Because we are not employing at entry level, offshoring will kill our industry stone dead."
I calle the FBI in Boston (near where she lives) and they said they can't help
Just tell them people are getting bomb threats... That should easily get this put on their #1 list and resolved in about 5 minutes tops. Isn't that why they phone tap everyone?
1) Have her set up an answering machine with a short explanation.
2) Get the mainstream media involved.
Trolling is a art,
Being in that situation I think I would be changing my number first thing -- if the problem is so bad that you are going to the FBI it's time to change the number and spare her the grief and stress from dealing with all the angry calls.
After that is done then it's time to try to sort out the problem from the source; as for what route one would take for that? I cannot be sure, but I do believe that the first course of action should be changing the number and making the calls stop.
I'd think the phone company should be kind enough to happily assist in that, since they're so unwilling to try to help solve the problem itself.
How about starting with the FCC instead? They have some enforcement powers regarding communications. Though whether or not those powers extend to Caller ID spoofing is unknown to me.
Well intentioned or not, those guys are fucking assholes.
About all I can do is have a nice conversation with the caller, explain the situation, and ask them to talk with the scammer next time and find out who they are. I volunteer that I have some employees in Afghanistan who, in exchange for a ticket home, will be happy to pay the bastards a visit.
Ibid.
Her phone company can't change the CallerID info from another provider. Now if they can find out the phone number of the scammers, they can find what company provides phone.
"Useless organic meatbag" -HK-47
I wonder if you could claim identity theft...
sue them for fraud.
IANAL
Call the State Attorney General, then call the US Senators (John Kerry and Ted Kennedy), then the Governor's office. Explain what has been done and the reaction received. I bet the Attorney General will do something about it.
I've been receiving political calls through spoofed caller ID tags. All of the calls appear to come from residents in my town but end up being recordings. I don't answer the phone if I don't recognize the name.. but once I got a call from a guy I knew in high school that I randomly ran into 2 weeks prior.. ended up being a machine recording of Obama.
I'm about to cancel my phone all together, no point when it's 95% spam calls.
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
You can try contacting your state's attorney. They're normally pretty helpful ... because most are elected (at least in my state anyway).
Come on its 2008, we can't just take such trifling things as an individuals vouching for someone and their previous good record. She SAYS that she didn't make the call, but what would she say if she was waterboarded? Would she stick to her story or switch it to admit that she did make all the calls?
Sure she claims that she doesn't want to change her number just because she has had it for 50 years, but couldn't that be because she co-ordinates a major terrorist cell of grandmas across america (known in intelligence circles as Al-Quilter)? These evil women are spreading hate through out of date sugary treats and a fondness for knowing everything that is going on in the world while comparing it unfavourably with their own personal ideology of "it was better when I was young". We must stop these pedallers of hate against modern American who condemn the US of A as going to hell in a hand cart and not the sort of country that they want to live in. Death to Al-Quilter
I say condemn her based on the irrefutable caller ID evidence.
Seriously though its good that this old dear has someone looking out for her because in modern America you could easily see her being prosecuted because of an unfortunate conjunction of evidence.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Is that official /. editorial policy?
Unfortunately the only realistic way for her to get some peace is to change her number as the damage is done. It's the phone equivalent of a joe-job.
If she's willing to tough it out it will die down, the criminals will have moved on to another number by now so there will be less angry calls.
tell her to bite the bullet and get a new number
I'm guessing based on my own experience with calls from various phone scammers that they left a 1-800 call back number, right?
If thats the case, see if you can figure out who sold the 1-800 number. I have been dealing with annoying bogus credit counselors that won't stop calling and leaving their 1-800 numbers as callbacks. There are some good resources for this stuff online that may be able to help you find the company who sold the number - they are sold similarly to web domains, though without any obligation to anyone to release the data on who has it.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
If the Feds can't or won't handle it, what's the best approach here?
Get the word out.
No legitimate organization will use telemarketers or email or snail mail to generate business.
Wait, what? You say there are plenty of legitimate organizations that use those methods?
I say, discount all and the legitimate organizations will change their methods.
The crooks will stop; like "Card Services".
The charities will stop hounding us who give when we can; like PBS.
And, by the way, even legitimate businesses will give you a raw deal with their telemarketers. I once made the mistake of buying a service sold to me by Sprint's telemarketers. I didn't get what I was told and Sprint just said, "We don't have any record of that. Sorry for the inconvenience."
I say, scorched Earth. Put ALL telemarketers and ALL snail mail spammers and ALL email spammers out of business.
...and ask them to reintroduce this.
Good luck- they're all checked out for the election cycle and any time they do spend will be concerning stuffing their local pork into "stimulus" and bailout packages, instead of appropriate-for-federal-level legislation like this.
Please help metamoderate.
Why not, for the immediate future, setup her voicemail to answer after 1 ring, and set the voicemail message to something like "This phone number is being falsely used by a telemarketing company as their caller ID. Please call your local phone company and tell them you have received a telemarketing call using an hijacked caller ID entry.". If you can find out the actual company doing it, I'd throw their real phone number and company name in their too, just for good measure. At the very least, people will know not to leave a nice elderly lady death threats, and hopefully your phone company will take notice and track down the offending telemarketers and cut their "lines" off. I'd bet the voicemail volume drops significantly, legitimate ones get through and leave a message, and you'll probably hear a few less death threats against grandma.
Wisest is he who knows he does not know.
You have reached 123-456-7890.
Be advised that the car warranty calls do not originate from this number;
your caller ID was spoofed.
If you still want to leave a message, please wait for the beep.
<BEEP>
I'd call the FBI and the telephone company again. Be firm but polite when asking for help. Get names and phone numbers of everyone you talk to. If that person says no, ask for the next person up in the chain of command.
Oftentimes, people just don't know how to ask for help correctly when contacting an agency such as the FBI or telephone company. If she can't clearly articulate the problem to the person on the other end of the phone they simply might not be aware of the issue or its ramifications.
If you're able to clearly articulate the issue and still get denied, start writing letters. To the SAC of the local FBI office, or as high up as you can go to the telco. And as others suggested, contact the media: the local newspaper omsbudman, the local TV station's investigative reporter. And also as others have suggested contact your local elected representatives.
I'm not defending the FBI or phone company, but I've seen instances where a problem simply isn't stated clearly enough for the other party to understand what's going on. So the first thing to do is ensure that when the FBI and telco are involved, that the problem is stated in correct terms (and that you're talking to the proper person in the organization).
She really should just change her number if she wants to completely avoid the issue. Short of that the FBI will get involved about death threats, but that won't get the spoofers to stop using her number. I really don't see a good way to find them either.
She should start providing a car warranty if she wants to keep her phone number.
Asking to be removed doesn't work.
Citing the do not call list doesn't work. They laugh.
Telling the male calling, in my deepest voice, that he sounds cute and I want his home number, THAT seems to work. Especially on the ones with southern accents.
I wonder what would happen if everyone started propositioning these callers for 'favors'.
You're looking for:
Digitcom Services, Inc.
12923 Venice Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90066
Phone (310) 358-7000
TollFree(800) 464-5446
Fax (310) 437-4105
Please note: I am not posting this so you can pester, annoy, harass, or threaten them. If you call, call once, speak to their manager, and politely let them know what you think about their business practices. What you do with this is up to you, I hold no responsibilty for the actions of others.
V*nage has a new feature where I can record a message and send it to hundreds of people. I believe can source the call from ANY number I wish. I dont even have to prove the number is mine.
If she refuses to change the number, put an automated answering service on the number which instructs people about the fraud or if they really want to talk to the little old lady to press 1. That way the angry people will get told its all being spoofed and wont make the threats. You can do this fairly easily with Asterisk too. Cost wise, Asterisk is free, the pc is the main cost if there isn't an existing one and you can get the required Asterisk hardware (pstn -> pci card) from Digium.
If the govt won't help then this is the best solution without changing the number.
In my mind, the next logical step for me would be start writing letters to my state rep and letters to the FCC. Also, i would consult a lawyer and see if there is anything that i could do legaly to track the spoofers, ie: get nasty with the phone company or request phone bills from the people that are calling her and cross check them (using her number as a reference) and see if there is a way for the phone company to track who is really making the calls. I am not sure if there really is that much you could do with a lawyer, but in any case the lawyer will atleast inform you of your rights in this situation. That little bit of information might lead to the proper solution. Here in Canada, we don't have people spoofing caller id's with other people's phone numbers yet (or atleast i haven't heard of it yet), however telemarketers do often replace their numbers with something like 000-000-0000.I often get phone calls like that.
-Pizentios
If they look within 24 hours or so, the phone companies should be able to trace the call to the actual circuit from which it originated, using the underlying codes rather than the ANI presented for Caller ID.
The hard part is getting the people who have the power to actually do that for you involved.
Contact the Boston Globe and Boston Herald
III.IIVIVIXIIVIVIIIVVIIIIXVIIIXIIIIIIIIVIIIIVVIII
"She's terrified. Some well-intending anti-telemarketing folks have posted her address on the 'net as well. "
Welcome to vigilante justice. I wonder how many folks on slashdot think that posting peoples address like this on the Internet is a good idea?
Well I am sure that if it was a real scammer then it would be okay...
Until you make a mistake.
Call the police, then the news, then your elected reps...
They need to hunt these idiots down.
Both the scammers and the ones that are calling this lady.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
...and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team.
What is needed is a law that applies to the telcos. It should require them to do the following in their telephone network. When a call is being established from a source that provides its own caller ID info (e.g. a customer phone switch), then the telco switch should do a lookup of the provided number against the list of numbers assigned to the customer connected through the circuit to that switch. If it is not in the list, the call is not completed. No circuit is allowed to be connected to a switch unless the phone number list is available for it, or it comes from another telco. There would be certain exemptions for government law enforcement and intelligence operations.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Someone has to have had some money taken from them through the credit card system. Maybe you can get some help there as the credit card company is probably out a fairly large amount of money. Just another way to attack the problem. The credit card company may want to have her phone number for a while. BTW these people kill me. I answered one of their stupid calls one day and they asked ME which of my vehicles warranty was about to expire. I said I didn't know I have 12 (actually true but most are VERY old motorcycles). I found it kind of humorous that they needed ask me which vehicle they were trying to scam me on!
Call a Lawyer.
It should be the first stop. Not that we're not all impressed by "anonymous reader's" efforts to help, but who is he and what is he going to do to help?
An attorney, which can often provide a free consultation on the subject (especially if they are the family attorney), could give the legal or civil remedies far better than the knowledgeable, yet removed and politically-big-talking-limited-action afforded by Slashdot readers. Seriously. The post in and of itself *asks* for legal advice that this community is not qualified to give. More to the point, if the Sladshdot community gives bad advice, you can't exactly hold them accountable. An attorney would have a fiduciary duty to help the client resolve the problem, and could be held accountable (via malpractice) for the advice given.
I find it difficult to believe that the authorities won't do anything. Far too often this demographic is willing to believe authorities use every tip and trick to circumvent civil liberties to get an arrest, but no they are so quick to believe they won't pursue something? Perhaps FBI lacks jurisdiction. Perhaps start with the sheriff's office before calling the FBI. Or public safety. Or state police. But most importantly CALL A LAWYER. Especially if she's unwilling to change her number.
so you believed that nasty old scammer's story, huh?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I wondered when this was going to happen! I take care of a PBX with about 600 numbers on it and we get calls from these same creeps daily. When you try to find out who they are they just hang up on you. I have three active complaints with the FCC on these people. Usually, they spoof the number of some poor individual who is always listed in the phone book, always with the address, usually in some backwater town and the number is recently disconnected. I suspect that the listing is to help avoid blacklists or filtering (it works with us). The company is a service bureau that produces "leads" for several products including the car warranty fraudsters, an alarm company, a directTV dealer and a credit card company. They ignore the do not call list. The warranty people are the most persistent and the sleaziest, as they try to trick people into believing that they have an existing business relationship with them. This has been going on for months and will take a serious effort to get these guys busted, are slashdotters up to the task? Somebody will have to become an actual "lead" for them and collect some information that the FTC and FCC can use to find them. Getting the media on board will ensure the attention of the government agencies, who each will want to take the credit for stopping this once they "see the cameras". The story here is perfect for her local TV station's investigative team "Local woman gets thousands of calls from angry public because of fraudulent telemarketing company!". People hate fraud and telemarketers. These lead generation companies do the dirty work and keep "reputable" firms hands clean of wrongdoing by providing another layer of anonymity and making it almost hopeless to attempt to pursue the bad guys, but somebody has to get the customers money and to do that requires piercing that vail. The next phase of this will be when these kinds of losers start calling via VOIP from overseas. The key is to identify these people and more importantly, their customers! Please help!
and told others what i did and surmised later that i don't know HOW close i was to being potentially arrested.
See, i'd been ripped off, losing a sizable chunk of money by a scammer in 2001/2002. I was laid off, had a mortgage, was desperate, and when you've been unhirable for almost a year, and burning down your vested stocks because some CEO got a bonus to lay you off when that bonus (several $10s of millions from what i heard) could have kept me and others employed for a few more months), your world starts to implode.
So, i gambled (and lost) some $700 on an asshole who made a dumbass out of me. He promised (IIRC in writing as well as verbally) to return my investment if in 30 days (or so) i wanted to cancel my involvement. He dragged my ass out for weeks past that time, and then I called the FBI. I suggested this guy, one Anthony Brown (who claimed to have contacts at Cisco and ohter places, and claimed he was having meetings at times at their Milpitas location), might be doing this in an interstate manner. I was told they couldn't do anything. The local police in the Sacramento & San Joaquin areas couldn't help either. I suggested to the FBI agent that if they or law enforcement couldn't help me that I should probably find some criminals who would not take kindly to being ripped off, and that I should make an appointment with Mr. Brown (if that was even his real name and real ID), and "steer" him toward some mob or gangster types who would probably also not know Brown was a bottom-feeding piece of scum about to meet his Hell on Earth. I actually wanted BLOOD. I wanted to KILL that m'f'r, as $700 was a serious amount of money to take, STEAL, from someone whose world was already on fire. So, if he actually took their money, and then fucked THEM, he'd be sorry he ever met me or them.
The FBI agent responded, "You're calling the *FBI* with a question like THAT?" Then he paused, giving me a hint i better hang up.
I hung up. Later, friends and family helped me out a little more, but it is a shame that vigilantism is/can be illegal.
My advice: If your world is on fire and you get involved with anybody who is going to get money from you, get their fingerprints off a restaurant glass, a writing pin from which you can lift the prints with cello tape, or something. Make him/her sign YOUR documents that their ass is voluntarily on a hook to YOU since their exploiting your pitiful situation. But, then if you're that smart, you might not be in my "hindsight is 20/20" situation.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
My knowledge of phone technology is limited but could someone explain why we don't have a reliable traceback method for the phone system?
Another day closer to redwood heaven
They love to make themselves look good with stuff like this. They'll get the FBI hopping. Caller ID spoofing is fraud, and it's prosecutable.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
Well, now that her address is posted, she better think about moving. Who did it? Nobody will ever admit to it and even if someone did, there is this little thing called the 1st Amendment. Publishing someone's address so they can be harrassed is not illegal.
As to finding the people using her phone number for Caller ID, good luck. You need to understand that you aren't receiving those phone calls. So there is nothing to trace. You aren't going to get anyone to track down the phone records of someone that calls because of the Caller ID - that would be a violation of their privacy.
I'd say you either trust in the good nature of all of the people on the Internet or plan on helping your nice old lady friend move. Now that she is linked with telemarketing and her address is published you can assume someone, somewhere with a militant attitude towards telemarketers will follow up on this address. Sure, after they burn her house down she might be able to have them arrested for arson.
I can't believe what I am reading. A lot of people are talking about different methods the FBI should use to trace these people. Some people are saying take this to the media to shame those agencies into doing something. THEY CAN'T. There are two methods for caller ID spoofing. There is one method that is completely untraceable. This lady is SOL. The reason why those agencies haven't taken action is because they CAN'T. Her best option is to change her number.
Rule 1: There's no problem so big that it can't be solved by shouting. (In fact, it's pointless numbering it because it's the ONLY rule when dealing with anybody).
- Shout at the phone company.
- Shout at the local police (bugger the FBI, the police would be my first port of call)
- Shout at the FBI.
They will all tell you there is "nothing" they can do, until you start causing a fuss and they actually SEE what the problem is and start dealing with it. If they don't, then you invoke corollary A...
- Shout to the press, and let them amplify your voice.
Get an item in your local paper (at least), raising the parts about little old lady, death threats, innocent party... see how long it takes the phone company to do something then.
I'd be very surprised if you'd have to go that far. Many's the time that I've been told that there's "nothing" that can be done by a company. Every time, I've got a resolution without even having to hang up the phone (don't fall for the "we'll get someone to call you back"). You just insist they sort the problem out - the first person on the phone will NEVER be able to do anything but there is ALWAYS someone that can, will and does as part of their job.
Case in point - one winter our pre-pay gas card (that powers all our heating) stopped working and the company told me there was "nothing" that could be done. I'd have to wait X days for a replacement to turn up and pay £8 for it. I start shouting. Nothing offensive, a bit rude at worst and I keep drumming it into the person... "If YOU can't help me, get me someone who can." I wasn't taking no for an answer. Three people and an hour later (after refusing to hang up and wait for them to resolve the problem, be transferred etc.) and I get to someone who not only arranges for a replacement card there but then gets on the phone to the local store (who charge the gas-cards but are otherwise just ordinary stores), TELLS THEM TO STAY OPEN PAST CLOSING TIME until I arrive, and they will give me a new card (with free credit) which I'm supposed to pay £8 for but he makes them waive it. Meanwhile, he gives me his direct phone number, directions to the shop, the shop's phone number and the name of the person he spoke to. He tells me to call him in ten minutes to tell him whether or not I have the card. I run out to the shop, get the card, call him back (and he answers, so he WAS genuine), thank him. Two days later, a small cheque arrives in the post for the hassle.
Funny, considering according to the first person I spoke to "nobody" could do anything, there was "nothing" that could possibly be done, "even my supervisor can't do that, sir". Absolute tripe. Shout.
I've had this about once a month for the past five years with banks, shops, call-centres, even furniture stores etc. It's ALWAYS the same story. "My supervisor isn't here." (CRAP!) "Nobody can do that." (Rubbish). "You'll have to call back when X is around." (Tripe). Cause a fuss, don't let them hang up on you, get through to the person who CAN do things (there's ALWAYS one). If all else fails, write a really nasty letter at the same time as you get the local press involved (both bother to threaten - just do it) mentioning that little fact. See how long it takes for a very nice man at the phone company to change her number for free and slip her a small cheque to keep her quiet.
Costs like 5 bucks. Not a huge deal.
This probably won't help, since telemarketers probably wouldn't call VoIP DIDs, especially if they are doing sketchy stuff like this. However, if you're receiving their calls and happen to be using a SIP phone, this comment is for you. I don't know of how people would mask their caller ID on a normal land line. Of course people can get those caller ID spoof cards, but where are they calling when they call those numbers? Chances are, it's a VoIP service. If someone who has a SIP phone is called by these telemarketers, they may be able to retrieve their real caller ID. Unless the telemarketers really know what they're doing, they probably only changed the caller ID field in the SIP header, and didn't touch the P-Asserted-Identity field. Using asterisk, one can obtain the caller ID out of the P-Asserted-Identity field like this, before having the phone ring of course: exten => s,1,Set(passertedid=${SIP_HEADER(P-Asserted-Identity)}) exten => s,2,Set(CALLERID(all)=${CUT(passertedid,@,1):5})
Technically, abuses like this fall under the Federal Trade Commission. They have a website for taking complaints: https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/
Unfortunately, her best option is still to get a new phone number.
There has been a recent rash of telemarketing calls particularly to cell phones using spoofed caller ID. The calls are being made from spoofed caller IDs because it is illegal to make telemarketing calls to cell phones and whoever is doing this does not want to be easily traced.
In my experience, everything about cellular is a rip off. They need to be regulated by consumer advocacy and engineers - not payola politicians. If we pass laws that make them PAY I bet they'll figure out how to handle all those FREE MINUTES before its streamed to the Fed's data mine. Face it people, Cellular somehow accounts for every dollar that they steal from us on 2 year "contracts". If they have to pay, then they'll fix it, yesterday! Lets fire up some torches angry villagers !!
little old ladies are always calling me
no seriously. the best i can make out from the odd chats i've had with various little old ladies over the years is that my number was previously owned by a high end and antique pen dealership. that explains the demographics of the calls i get. an occasional little old man, sure, but mostly little old ladies make up the customer base for fine crafted pens
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Spoofing someones phone number seems less financially destructive than stealing their SSN or credit card numbers, but wouldn't this still qualify as stealing someone's unique, identifying number? And if it leads to death threats and harassment of an innocent citizen, I would think this would be the thing we actually have law enforcement for.
1368127 is prime!
She should change her number, if it's really that bad.
I mean, so you've had the same number for 50 years. How many people call you after 10 years you haven't heard from.
YES, it's an inconvenience. BUT, it's easier than trying to push the feds or local LEO's into doing something
Sometimes, doing what you don't want to do is the easiest thing, and the easiest way to solve the problem faced.
--Toll_Free
And is it something done on the caller's end, or is it something in the system? I'm wondering because I've been getting some odd calls w/r/t Caller ID and I wonder if a friend is having me on... .
WEST LOS ANGELES
12923 Venice Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90066
(On Venice Blvd. between Lincoln and Beethoven,
across the street from Venice High School)
Phone (310) 358-7000
(800) 464-5446
Fax (310) 437-4105
This sounds like the kind of thing where an elected representative can really help. If the lady in question lives in the U.S., she might want to contact her U.S. Senator and her U.S. House Representative.
I say, scorched Earth. Put ALL telemarketers and ALL snail mail spammers and ALL email spammers out of business.
While we're at it, let's get rid of all those damn billboards that festoon every square inch of space everywhere, and plant trees instead.
It is time for marketroids to realise that they do not have a god-given right to plaster their useless dreck across the entire landscape just so that they can make a fast buck. Douglas Adams was wrong when he painted telephone sanitisers and hairdressers as the most useless specimens of humanity. Marketroids plumb depths where even parking attendants barely mark the surface.
...but it is a shame that vigilantism is/can be illegal.
See the movie "The Star Chamber" for a good reason why it is illegal.
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
... that larger businesses with lots of phone lines have connected via a trunk circuit to their telco (which doesn't vet the caller ID info against the numbers assigned to that customer).
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
The banner ad for this article is for "SpoofCard" which enables you to "spoof your Called Id" and "be anyone you want to be".
Nice.
Send a certified letter to the state attorney general's office, the FBI office, the phone company, and the FCC. That's four copies of the same letter addressed to all four entities explaining the situation and asking them to fix it. Send it certified so someone has to sign for it.
If they continue to do nothing, go to an attorney, have him send the same four letters with a cover letter of his stating that the matter will move to federal court for injunctive relief asking the court to order them to fix the situation if they can't seem to do so on their own. Given her age, you should be able find an attorney willing to give a pro bono hour for this.
If they still continue to do nothing, file the complaint. It is, I believe, $350 to file the complaint plus the day to show-up and ask the judge for the order and for compensation for expenses. Again, finding a competent attorney to do this pro bono for the publicity benefit alone shouldn't be impossible. You may even get the court to waive the filing fee if she's on a fixed income.
Ask the phone company for something nondescript, like 867-5309.
The FBI can certainly help, that's bogus. The phone company can certainly help, that's bogus as well. The phone company knows from which carrier the call came from and so on and so forth until they can pin down the offending carrier.
What's that supposed to mean?
The FBI, phone carriers and local law enforcement don't give shit! They'll take a report and send you on your way!
Option 1: Live with it.
Option 2: Find out from someone who paid them what address the company is at - get it from a credit card dispute. Then, walk in and kill them.
Andy Out!
Calling the Media will mean nothing unless this "company" has a conscious. It will simply tell them "we are on to you and now feel the wraith of mass guilt!". Perhaps what needs to be done is to contact every spoof company you can find out there and ask for there records stating you are investigating this most hannus crime. However, if both are deployed perhaps you could get an even better result. Just a theory...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_number_identification
Get one of the bastards to call someone with equipment to get the ANI code and the rest is Slashdot fun.
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
Since the spoofed calls are not coming to her number the records will only show the angry folks who are getting scammed. It is their phone records that will indicate the source. Purchase a call screening device ($60) and block calls from out of the area or any unrecognized number. Most machines allow you to use both a white list of good numbers a priority list of close friends and a rejection list that would include anyone else. We were getting a lot of drunks calling late at night waking us in a panic. We put a "caller ID with ring control" on the line and have not had a single unknown phone call. We have not had anyone we white listed blocked. So its a cheap answer to the problem.
I would forward my phone number the nearest local police station. The phone company would surely disconnect that forward, but a few would get through. Sometimes simply presenting your case isn't enough.
Dosn't matter a bit FBI? CIA? RGB? TFB?
If she was getting call backs, she should tell EVERY ONE WHO CALLS, AWS are scammers, and they should register with the FTC: and START Signed and dated PHONE LOGS. Every one I hear gets these phone calls, I show them the origional post card that started it all, and my phone log. I have clued in about 20 people, and we have filed over 15 reports for illegal telemarketing contact, i.e. Dont call EVER, and ... they ... call @ $500 per complaint.
http://www.ftc.gov/
Scammer name:
Automotive Warranty Solutions
6501 congress ave, ste 140, boca raton, fl 33487
877-700-5880,
Call their 800 number, and ask to be put on their do not call list. ( just everone call plz )
This is a Attorney General who is taking this problem seriously. ( Note: California and Florida are probibly NOT ):
http://www.ct.gov/AG/cwp/view.asp?A=2795&Q=411422
a blogger who did a lot of flatfoot work:
http://www.markturner.net/2007/11/08/car-warranty-scam-continued/
Remember: REMEMBER! Documented phone logs make diffrence. If you can document DNC and the call back time and date. Give them a call and get on their DNC list ANYWAY. So when they do call...
I have a land line here that gets 4-5 different auto-calls a day even though it's be on that Do Not Call list for a year. I usually leave the phone off the hook after answering to waste their time. When I call the numbers back they either block the call at their pbx with a message or are disconnected and obviously forged. I'm even getting them on my cell, including mal-formed numbers from what should be New Brunswick and Puerto Rico. Fuckin Scammers
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
I'm actually working with a lawyer on these people. I need to file a law suit sometime this week in order to get the subpoenas I need to begin tracking them down.
It's going to take awhile, but I'm certain with a little bit of work it will happen.
Continue advocating the phase out of the legacy telephone system with its unreliable caller id info. The ideal way this stuff should work, is that if the incoming connection request isn't OpenPGP-signed by someone you have some sort of WoT path to, then you don't know who it is.
We've had the tech to solve The Big Authentication Problem for a couple decades now (thanks, Phil!). We just need to start using it, for voice, email, etc.
You are giving them too much credit. Caller ID is widely known, even to many laymen now, to be unreliable. (And someone who makes a point of going after scammers has little excuse for being behind the curve on this.) They don't really have strong reason to believe she is the scammer. To do such a thing without checking their facts is irresponsible and possibly libelous. I wouldn't sugarcoat their actions.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
They tend to be very conscious of consumer issues and it is their job to look after the citizens & businesses in their state. While the scammers are likely out of state, the Office could initiate legal action against them. Also bring the media as others have said - something mainstream like the local news.
The US Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation passed S. 704, a bill that would make it a crime to spoof caller ID.
Dubbed the "Truth in Caller ID Act of 2007," the bill would outlaw causing "any caller identification service to transmit misleading or inaccurate caller identification information" via "any telecommunications service or IP-enabled voice service." Law enforcement is exempted from the rule.
Specifically these sections:
SEC. 2. PROHIBITION REGARDING MANIPULATION OF CALLER IDENTIFICATION INFORMATION.
Section 227 of the Communications Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C. 227) is amended -
(1) by redesignating subsections (e), (f), and (g) as subsections (f), (g), and (h), respectively; and
(2) by inserting after subsection (d) the following new subsection:
`(e) Prohibition on Provision of Inaccurate Caller Identification Information. -
`(1) IN GENERAL - It shall be unlawful for any person within the United States, in connection with any telecommunications service or IP-enabled voice service, to cause any caller identification service to knowingly transmit misleading or inaccurate caller identification information with the intent to defraud, cause harm, or wrongfully obtain anything of value, unless such transmission is exempted pursuant to paragraph (3)(B).
`(3) REGULATIONS -
`(A) IN GENERAL - Not later than 6 months after the enactment of this subsection, the Commission shall prescribe regulations to implement this subsection.
`(B) CONTENT OF REGULATIONS -
`(i) IN GENERAL - The regulations required under subparagraph (A) shall include such exemptions from the prohibition under paragraph (1) as the Commission determines is appropriate.
`(ii) SPECIFIC EXEMPTION FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES OR COURT ORDERS - The regulations required under subparagraph (A) shall exempt from the prohibition under paragraph (1) transmissions in connection with -
`(I) any authorized activity of a law enforcement agency; or
`(II) a court order that specifically authorizes the use of caller identification manipulation.
Law enforcement is negligent if they fail to take action. IMO - If the Law doesn't work, the local newspaper and/or television station might get the ball rolling.
To avoid corruption, one must remain dishonest.
I'm a marketing consultant and I've dealt with the auto warranty industry extensively. We (they) have recently started a new watch-dog group called the Automotive Warranty and Service Contract Association, and one of their purposes is to stop the "robo-calling" and caller ID spoofing. Have your friend send an email to Larry Hecker, Executive Director of AWSCA. His email is [his first name] at warrantybestpractices dot com. Good luck!
If she knows the real scammers' identity, she could simply let all calls from numbers she doesn't recognize go to voicemail. The voicemail message can say something to the effect of
Thank you for calling grandma. If you are calling to complain about a car warranty solicitation that you received, you have the wrong number. Please hang up and call them directly at (XXX-YYY-ZZZZ) or file a complaint with your state's insurance regulator. All others may leave a message at the tone.
Hopefully that will help.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
One suggestion I have, with all other ideas exhausted, is to try using a private investigator.
P.I.'s can dig up a lot of dirt that you could use to file formal charges, but unfortunately it could be costly.
First off, I like the idea of intercepting this with an auto attendant, I think that's the simplest and most important thing you can do in the short term. I think you could ask your local telco if they can put an intercept message on the line - that should be completely possible. If not, look for some kind of device that will pick up, play back a recorded message, then pass the call on to the phone. A service like this would work well but costs money:
http://www.americanvoicemail.com/autoattendant.html
Or, you can probably do some call forwarding tricks, but that will require switching the number to a different carrier because a regular 1FR line won't do the necessary tricks.
Oh, and some idiot on this forum is going to suggest doing some tricks with Asterisk - ignore them because it's 20 times more work than you need to do and in the end it's just going to confuse her.
To really nab these guys, you're going to need to some how trace it back to the origin, and that's going to be damn hard. If you can't get a callback number to trace it with, then it would be nice if you could some how get ANI (automatic number identification) information. And that could be possible. Do it this way: find an agreeable caller who'll work to help nab this guy. Then get them to go to their telco and request their phone records get pulled and the ANI from the phone call retrieved. Then go to the telco's with that ANI and find out who owns it. Anyone can spoof caller ID, but it takes some real magic to spoof ANI. (Unfortunately some carriers toss away ANI records and translate caller ID to ANI, so be careful. It may take a few interations to get that info.)
Now, that's still probably not going to work. I have no doubt these guys are offshore and using a VOIP box (probably Asterisk, lol). The VOIP calls terminate to a VOIP carrier in the US with an account that was set up under some fraudulent information. Then that VOIP carrier is peered with the real telco's via some regular old PRI's and that's the ANI information you'll get. However, I have no doubt that somewhere, some how a bill is generated and paid for, so if you can get to the VOIP carrier, you might be able to track this down.
----- obSig
what do you do when they say "Yes"?
"She's had the same number for over 50 years and doesn't want to change it."
If the Feds can't or won't handle it, what's the best approach here?
Change the number anyway! She doesn't want to change it, much like a lot of us who get joe-jobbed don't want to change our e-mail address, but there's no choice once your number / address / whatever has become tarnished. Some idiot is always going to have that number and be blaming it for their telemarketing woes.
but I would have to KILL YOU!!!
Maybe I will kill you anyway!!
What state are you in?
My Slashdot Journal! YAY!
I know how this old lady feels. .. i thought it might be a scam, but fell for giving my routing number, and said no to the coupons. they still trying to take my money, luckily i didnt have $400 in my account :)
It sucks to be violated by some punks that dont even know you.
I had some people call about my student loan and said they had a federal rebate for me, all i had to do is give them a routing number to my bank account. and then they started trying to get me to say yes on a recorded call to saying they could take $400 dollars for a bunch of coupons
After me being a dumbass i called the State attorney General and they told me to call the FBI. The FBI said it happens all the time and there isnt anything they can do, cuz they cant find them.
I think this is why its such a big problem, no one wants to handle it, the FBI just says, sorry no my problem, and the crooks prolly know this!
Go go Gadget Nailgun!
Then you mention something about fava beans.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
My advice: If your world is on fire and you get involved with anybody who is going to get money from you, get their fingerprints off a restaurant glass, a writing pin from which you can lift the prints with cello tape, or something. Make him/her sign YOUR documents that their ass is voluntarily on a hook to YOU since their exploiting your pitiful situation. But, then if you're that smart, you might not be in my "hindsight is 20/20" situation.
Or you could try not being a dumbass who gets ripped off by dime-store con-men.
This makes for an interesting ddos attack against a company's real phone number. Same thing as an spoofing the IP but instead you spoof there number, they get all the bad press and all the hate calls . They are so busy with those calls that the secretaries are missing the real calls or at least being ignorant to them as well.
There is a hardware product (google "Caller ID Manager") that costs about $100 which can enable white-list filtering on her phone. White list filtering means she enters a list of phone numbers she wants to ring through. Numbers not on her white list go either to voicemail or just get lost. This box wouldn't stop angry strangers from leaving a message, but it would stop them from ringing her phone.
See the movie "The Star Chamber" for a good reason why it is illegal.
Because Hollywood movies are such a trustworthy reference and example base for making such decisions.
Look, lady, call a fucking lawyer. You should be able to sue for fraud, slander, and God knows what else.
When your appendix bursts do you ask slashdot what to do, or do you see a doctor? CALL A LAWYER!!!!
Free Martian Whores!
I thought everyone got all their medical and law advice from Hollywood movies?
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
Try contacting the FCC.
the sword is mightier than the pen
that was a lame joke, but in actuality, my brother in law sells swords on the internet, heh
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
In MA, I would suggest contacting the Attorney General. Luckily, MA is more protective of individuals than most states in matters like this.
"She's had the same number for over 50 years and doesn't want to change it."
...
I had the same problem sort of. My cell phone number it turns out was the same number as the 800 number for a produce company. I live in the 805 area code and people see the 8 in the area code and stop reading. So at 4 in the morning on most 1st and 15ths of the month I get about a dozen calls from clueless restaurants wanting to order produce for the next 2 weeks. I don't speak Spanish very well and Chinese even less.
So sometimes I just took their orders and blew them off. Other times I took their orders and told them there was an $800 delivery fee. Well I told them, I have to find a produce company, get a truck, call in sick to work, and then figure out how I could drive 150 miles (usually the average distance to where the restaurant was from me) to deliver their produce by the hour they wanted it delivered. I told them it would probably be cheaper to call a produce company. The only reason I didn't change my phone number was the hassle of telling all your friends and all the people who have your number of the new number and you always miss a couple of those and then it was on my resume in about a dozen different places on various accounts and all my web addresses etc. and I only had it for 3 years, she's had it for 50 years.
Frankly I think we can find the company/companies that is/are trying to sell stuff using her number and cost them a WHOLE lot of money by just everybody and his brother filing suit against them for whatever strikes our fancy. sort of a denial of time to think attack. Oh and all of Slashdot can file BBB complaints every time they change their company name. Hey we have a lot of resources here and I'm sure there are many perfectly legal ways to harass these guys half to death. Let's put hour heads together and
Oh, yeah this is Slashdot, anything that requires any action is well you know...
never mind
Why bother
She should then contact her Senate and House representatives. They really fall all over themselves, especially in an election cycle, helping people who may then vote for them.
She should also contact the FCC and the FTC.
Can't we find out who they are and expose and campaign against them on the internet?
So am I the only one that sees the irony in having a banner ad for a product that lets you "FAKE your Caller ID" on a discussion about how bad that is and how to stop it?
I would contact your State Attorney General's office. The terminating and transit carriers rely on originating carrier to pass the originating number. The terminating and transit carriers may have event records which provides a trunk ID which may indicate what network passed the call to the terminating carrier. If each transit carrier has the same type of record you may eventually identify the originating carrier. Then the originating carrier can search their records for the terminating number and that may identify the source. This assumes you can convince each carrier in the link to provide records (which may not exist) and may get lucky and identify the source. This works whether VoIP or circuits are used if the carriers keep records. After all that you may find the source to be worthless (prepaid phone or international location for example). Since the source is telemarketing calls I suspect they have a brick and mortar building somewhere.
This is easily identity theft
http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=cagotopic&L=2&L0=Home&L1=Consumer+Protection&sid=Cago
The AG is an elected official, and they care about what voters think. Ask your relative to file a detailed report, then go to her state rep and ask him/her to follow up with the AG.
The mechanics of finding the perp is not that difficult, unless the calls are coming from overseas. You just need to motivate the officials a bit to act.
Signup for Google's Grand Central service. It works fine for me...you can mark "spammers" and block them permanently from calling you. Easy and no headaches.
I understand she doesn't want to change her phone #, but times change and to deal with right now thats the best course of action to have them stop calling immediately.
On the other hand, she could continue to contact the FBI and her phone service, or hire a laywer maybe? and fight this to bring the issue into the light and have something done about it.
Give him a break. He's probably just frustrated from struggling to sign his name with a thumbtack.
Change her phone number. Big deal, she's had it for 50 years. What is she worried that someone she lost touch with 40 years ago won't be able to find her?
Phone companies should read the caller ID information from outbound calls from their customers and block the call if the caller ID doesn't match.
The lady could setup a voice menu explaining that she isn't responsible for those calls, and press 1 if they want to ring through. That should eliminate some of the calls.
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
She can call her local police of herself or the area of where any threatening or harassing calls to her came from. THEY can get the call data from the phone companies and prosecute. (If her phone company isn't Ma Bell, she'll probably be asked to call them to get the phone number the cops are supposed to call. It's not difficult. They'll tell her what to ask for.)
It doesn't much matter if the FBI isn't interested, if she hasn't even tried her local cops yet.
Ask the ones who call back for death threats for info on the offending company.
Explain the situation and tell them you want to nail the bastards, and ask for their help.
what do you do when they say "Yes"?
Hmm, they say "yes". What could then happen? Oh, I know, get more information about them so you could "meet" them somewhere . . .
Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean that they're not out to get you.
Why not put in a PUC Complaint (Public Utility Commission)? I believe once you have an active complaint/ticket with your local exchange carrier you can then proceed with contacting the PUC and they can take it from there. Most telephone companies panic when they hear "PUC Complaint" so the fact that the local carrier in this matter is not doing anything, opening a PUC complaint may change that very quickly.
-Anonymous
It seems that someone occasionally makes a mistake that results in incorrect caller ID. For years, someone's business phone (or cell phone used for business) incorrectly reported my parents' home number. The result was that they got a ton of calls every week from business people from another state who would call up and ask "Why did you call me?"
The phone company was absolutely no help at all, and this went on for years. Eventually the fellow whose phone was incorrectly identifying itself figured out the problem and had it corrected, because the phone calls stopped.
While it's certainly possible that some telemarketing company is deliberately spoofing someone else's caller ID, it is also possible that this is a legitimate mistake somewhere by someone. Hanlon's Razor says not to assume malice when incompetence or stupidity are sufficient to explain things.
of apple fame, got a vanity number once consisting of nothing but 8s. 888-8888
and he got a lot of calls from toddlers
apparently, when you are two feet tall, and reach up to press buttons on the telephone, 8 is what your fingers naturally gravitate too
and that's 100% true. i think the source was wired magazine from the late 90s. wozniak was on the front cover i think
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
This happened to me for a while, until I kept them on the line long enough that I could start asking questions. The last time they called, I asked "Where are you located?", "How did you get my phone number?", and "Do you realize that by continuing to call me you're breaking the law?". While they never gave a straight answer, they hung up on me (after the breaking-the-law question) and stopped calling.
Granted this does nothing to punish someone who should be punished, but it did stop the calls.
Not to be OT but I really hope we hear an update regarding this, assuming something happens. And not just this story, but others, they appear and pique my interest then bam! Nary to hear back from them again.
It makes me sad cos I hope granny comes out of it ok and with her 50 year old phone number.
Chicken fried butter sticks? Do
Is an extended car warranty a scam? I bought one from the dealer.
Let's spend the money collected through taxes wisely (education and infrastructure), instead of stupidly (wars and bank bailouts) and see if that fixes things.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Yeah, that's the worst problem we face in America today.
It is. Not bogus phone calls, mind you. But governmental apathy. The system doesn't care about the so called "little people" anymore.
If it was the mayor of a big town, or a chief of police, or a congressman that was being harassed in this way the FBI would be all over it - and you know it.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
That might get the FBI's attention, but try the locals first.
And the locals are the starting point for this problem too. If the scammers are next door, then there's no jurisdiction for the FBI.
From an article in PC world I recently read. it is the last 'trick' on the first page.
SpoofCard
How illegal can it be?
Just remember - if the world didn't suck, we would all fall off.
You mentioned you're in the Boston area. Why not try "Help me Hank" - Channel 7's investigative reporter.
Best way is to announce the most publicaly way possible how Federal authorities are incompetent, I bet they will do something about it after.
Thats the way to go now to solve things. Go to the press, make it very public.
Man sorry you had to go through that. I wanted to chime in and say that my GF had a similar experience (with the $700 headhunter). She did wait to talk to me before agreeing to anything though.
Simple truth is a headhunter makes that or more a month on an skilled employee they can supply for an employer. So I simply explained to her, that if you're a "people" salesperson, and you make lots off of each person, would you want to willfully diminish your inventory by a stupid fee like that?
Further we did the math and figured out that on her last contract (which paid her *incredibly* well) the employment agency was pulling in $1500 to $2000 a month. We were able to figure this out since her last boss accidentally let her know how much the employment agency was getting paid (and they in turn paid my GF).
Again, not insulting you Davidseyes. If I were in your position I too would be looking at any opportunity for work. But people like that "Headhunter", that prey on the desperate are the lowest kind of low (in my opinion, up there with Rent to Own places and Mortgage Brokers that tack huge fees on people's mortgages on top of the commission they get from the bank).
That said, maybe it would be a good idea to talk to legitimate employment agencies and ask them how to deal with scammers like that.
Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
We were having one of our incoming trunk phone lines spoofed on and off through the year. The number was one of 4 lines for incoming calls only and the spoofers were calling 911. We had a full top to bottom analysis of our phone system and security system to make sure that it wasn't us, and when I was talking to the security system guy he said that another local abandoned building had the same thing going on, which is when I realized it was spoofing. Nothing like being met with the police first thing in the morning about numerous hangup 911 calls from your location to make you get to the bottom of the situation. Hasn't come back in a number of months.
I'd say if the lady is worried and doesn't want to change the number, get caller ID and turn off the answering machine when it is a number that she doesn't recognize.
I've been reporting these folks (the spammers, not someone for ringing me to complain that I'm a spammer like your LOL) to the FTC constantly; after a dozen or so reports they finally sent me a letter saying they couldn't help becuase there was no evidence of a crime. As this was obviously wrong (cold-calling people with an recorded message is illegal; not listing your company name and a number they can be reached on in the initial message is illegal; etc. etc.) I rang the FTC and was told that the actual problem was that there wasn't enough information to track this down to the perpetrator. Which is also fairly obviously wrong, as they could chase it through my phone company to the operator being used. But if the operator in question is overseas, then good luck getting them to stop.
Is caller ID spoofing illegal? My brother's wife often gets calls from marketing agencies or a credit collector spoofing their ID. In one instance, get this, they spoofed their ID as her kid's pediatric hospital. Nothing terrifies a mother more than getting an unexpected call from a pediatric hospital during the middle of a school day. She went off the handle on them, which of course they claim they're not using this practice and then hang up... only to call again a few days later, spoofing themselves as some other number.
Her number is also on the do-not-call-list, which hasn't been helping at all.
Could you even try to go further from the topic?
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
I thought this was a joke when I first saw it on television. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD64vy-205Q/ -- "This ain't T-Money!" -- HAH!
"Congratulations, Boots. Your robot has become self-aware. You're a daddy now." -- Dr. Rho Bowman
There are a couple things I've learned in my short time on earth about getting help when those who should help don't/won't.
1) Call the media. The power of some investigative journalist shoving a microphone in the face of the big guys at the phone company will do wonders.
2) Call your Congressman and find out why the Authorities will not do their job. Congressmen have lackeys who do nothing but call people and exert pressure on those who need to be pressured.
3) If all else fails, Go in person and raise all holy hell. I will guarantee if you sit outside of the phone company headquarters throwing a shit fit, that will get someone's attention in upper management.
I have personally done 2 and 3 and They worked rather well, my situations were resolved in less than a day.
--kjb
That is not a solution. You can only find out who calls you. The source is the spammer who uses your phone number as caller ID when he calls other people (the people who then call you to complain, shout expletives, etc.)
Perhaps you're more familiar with email. There's an analogous problem with email spam: When a spammer uses your email address in the "from:" header, then you will find your inbox flooded with "no such user" errors, "we have received your message and will get back to you shortly" promises, out-of-office notices and various other automated replies, in addition to the occasional "fuck you, spammer, I've looked up your hoster and will get you disconnected" threats from clueless anger management candidates.
If you're lucky, then some of those messages will cite the spam back to you. If you're extra lucky, some of those will include complete headers. Most however will not give any indication who the person is who sent the message with your email address in the "from:" header. This is the norm with telephone communications, as there are no easily available "headers" which a spam target could relay to you.
You can try to have the phone company track down all irate callers (who see themselves as the victim) one by one, but what good is that going to do? You can just as well tell them when they call that someone else uses a fake caller ID with your number. You really want to get the spammer who causes all these people to get mad at you. That is not something that your phone company can help you with.
Asking to be removed doesn't work.
Citing the do not call list doesn't work. They laugh.
Telling the male calling, in my deepest voice, that he sounds cute and I want his home number, THAT seems to work. Especially on the ones with southern accents.
I wonder what would happen if everyone started propositioning these callers for 'favors'.
Or say, "Hold on one sec," and then call real loudly in the background, "Tommy! It ain't gonna' fit in the da' trunk like dat! You gotta' put da' plastic down 'n den cut it up foist!"
*pause*
"TOMMY! PUT THE DAMN GUN DOWN AND LISTEN TA' ME WHEN I'M TALKIN' AT CHOO!"
If they're still on the line after that, you may need to play a chain-saw recording real loudly to help emphasize your roleplay.
Tell the callers to put you on their DO NOT CALL list. Otherwise, they might remove you from the list they're using, but when they get a new list from a client you might be on that new list (and on the list which the client purchased). Having you on the calling service's block list should stop calls from that one service, at least.
Whenever I get a warranty phone call, credit repair phone call, etc... I harrass the shit out of them. I call them fags. I tell them that I fucked their mothers, and that she was ok for being a five dollar whore. I tell them that I'll hunt them down, fuck em in the ass, cut off their heads, and feed their bodies to rats. I threaten to rape their sisters, wives, children, dogs, cats, etc... I threaten to bomb their offices. I am as abrasive, and threatening as I can get. Why?
Because the fuckers never identify their company, or who they are. They give no information at all. So, I'm trolling for charges, any charges, against me. When they finally do contact law enforcement and file charges, I'll be able to pull the complaint, and then I'll know who those motherfuckers are. Then I'll know exactly who to send a lawyer after.
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
There is no technical way to prevent Caller ID Spoofing, your phone company has no way to stop this except changing your phone number so it is no longer your number being spoofed (they can also change the name on the spoofed number after it is no longer assigned to you). The caller can send any Caller ID number they want, and the terminating carrier will do a caller name lookup on this number. The FCC is the correct agency to contact to report this, my understanding is that Caller ID spoofing in and of itself is not a crime, but it is possible for the action to be covered under fraud or other laws depending on the specifics.
you mean if, for example, you were running for VP and your email account was broken into?
The telco can transmit the caller ID info anyway, because they have no "intent to defraud, cause harm, or wrongfully obtain anything of value". Instead, this qualification should be removed so that the telco itself is disallowed to transmit a caller ID that is wrong. They have the means to determine if it is wrong (at least the first telco the caller is serviced by).
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
My recomendation:
Call Dept Homeland Security. Tell them because of the threatening nature of the return calls that you suspect that this is related to terrorist activity.
Seriously, when I have had troubles with annoying spoofed-caller-ID telemarketers, I call the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) and file a formal complaint. This has actually led to these people being BUSTED. Which delights me to no end. They have an 800 number and are very polite. The more people who report this, the more chance that they will investigate and bust the offenders.
crappy triceratops
Oddly enough, when I finished posting this, the top banner ad was for something called "SpoofCard" that enables you to use fake Caller ID stuff. Irony, being served at high-speed via targeted ads.
crappy triceratops
I get one of those calls every day, like clockwork, on my cell phone. I've pressed the "press 2 to be removed from our list" button with no effect (big surprise).
It's illegal to make sales calls to cellphones. Is there any chance of the FTC actually doing anything about these people?
I had the same thing happen when I signed up for a VOIP call-in number. Immediately, I started getting constant phone calls, every minute or two, nonstop, from very angry folks who were getting phone calls from telemarketers that were faking my number! I tried contacting the VOIP service, but they said there was nothing they could do about it until next week, or I could just eat the charge of setting up another line.
After a day of the phone constantly ringing off the hook, and my voicemail quickly filling up...I was angry, so I rerouted my phone number to their technical support telephone. The problem was resolved that night! I was given a new phone number and life was good again.
Maybe a little off here but some one is there life terrified because they dont want to change there phone number? I think the real the question isnt how to stop the callerID spoofing its like asking how will we stop hackers/crackers/phreaking etc.. It comes down to living terrified vs Phone Number. Change your phone number to unlisted number. just m2c
How is it that in *this* community, no one has mentioned some TrixBox based solution?
I think we should:
Build a BlackList (think DNS BL's for spam blocking)
Include support for BlackList in Asterisk
Market this as an embedded appliance for the home ("answering machine with toys")
let users record custom messages *for* the telemarketers (and of course they don't get a *beep*)
Let the geeky solution win!
3 options
1) Follow your plan and waste a ton of time trying to track down people you won't be able to
2) Change the phone number
3) Deal with it.
Tell the old bat to change her number. If she doesn't like that answer tell her tough shit.
This is the exactly what I would tell my grandmother if she came to me with the same problem.
Treat unreasonable people unreasonably.
IMAGE VERIFICATION IS EVIL!
Unless your email is one of those "free" accounts, you should publish authentication for it (you do run your own email server, don't you?). SPF and maybe DKIM. Anything that sends out "you have a virus" responses (when any virus email is obviously forged) is a spammer. They get automatically blacklisted on my system. Check the authentication on your incoming mail also. Track reputation by authentication status.
You are limited in what you can do about phone numbers, but email has lots of tools available.
Given the context in which her address was posted online I don't think there could be any misconception about why it was posted online. It was done only to encourage mob justice, this is hardly well-intentioned.
Just have her say someone was making threats against Obama B(iden)...
I know from personal experience tracking down harassing phone callers that the ONLY WAY a phone company will help a non-government agency is if you come to their door with a sheriff equipped with a court order.
Similarly the FBI will only act if you can prove $50,000+ in damages.
RSD
You might want to check out the site Who Called Us. It's an attempt to construct a database of such calls and could be useful for coordinated efforts with other victims coming forward.
8==8 Bones 8==8
Send a substantial bri..., er, contribution to the incumbent seeking reelection, and let him/her know about this poor woman's problem with the bureaucracy. Taking on barbarians who prey on defenseless little old ladies and lazy public servants who don't help her, what a great opportunity for free last-minute publicity! Act fast: the election is just two weeks away; as of Nov. 5 they'll quit listening to the not-so-special interests until the primary elections in 2010!
TO EVERYONE WHO'S GOTTEN THESE CALLS:
The company behind it (i.e. actually selling the warranties - the telemarketers are all different!) is:
SafeData Management Services, Inc C2330112
James C. "Jim" Sletner (info@safedatainc.com)
530 722 9099 (work)
P.O. Box 992050 (WHOIS address)
Redding, CA 96099
2664 HARTNELL AVE (google)
REDDING, CA 96002
9434 DESCHUTES RD #204 (Secretary of State)
PALO CEDRO, CA 96073
530 243 4958 (home)
15676 OLD STAGE COACH RD
REDDING, CA 96001
Jim's lawyer: Jennifer Shaw, legal representative of Jim Sletner & his many front companies
legalcompliance@cdwsnow.com / 800 209 3755 x197
They also have a Nevada front:
Consumer Direct Warranty Services aka AA Auto Warranty Services
P.O. Box 60357 (http://www.aaautowarranty.com/contracts/DirectChoice.pdf)
Las Vegas, NV 89160-0357
4425 East Sahara Avenue (google)
Las Vegas, nv 89104-6356
(702) 207-1001
P.O. Box 993520 (http://www.aaautowarranty.com/DirectChoiceContract.asp)
Redding, CA 96099-3520
800 209 3755
aka Manufacturer's Direct Warranty Services C3060709
aka Warranty Administration Services, Inc. C306269
PO BOX 992050
REDDING, CA 96099-2050
TAMARA BERBENA
6973 YVONNE CT
REDDING, CA 9600
In MY CASE (which may not be yours), the telemarketers were:
National Dealers Warranty Service
BBB member, "D" rating (http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx?CompanyID=100068709)
(888) 539-8555
(949) 533-9484 - voicemail: Charles Butler
(949) 309-3798 fax
Orange County fictious business name reg. # 20086155068
Jason Garcia, Owner
Charles Butler - MySpace Warranty2008
Kamisha Daniel - Global Service Partners, LLC 200818010160 / OCFBN 20086161409
Martinee aka Lashunn Jackson (same address as Kamisha Daniels: 117 Waverly Dr., Alhambra CA)
Mario Moreno
25910 Acero
Suite 200
Mission Viejo, CA 92691
PLEASE NOTE: The caller ID that you are getting is FAKE. They spoof it. Whoever's it is in actuality, it's just some poor bastard who happened to have that number - don't bother the person. Go after the real ones.
What you can do:
1. Lie to them. Pretend like you're interested. Get three critical pieces of info: the COMPANY NAME, a DIRECT phone number (they first give you an 800 number, ask if you can have a direct line), and a MAILING ADDRESS where you can send a check. Remember, pretend you have an actual car that you want to warranty, and you're just really mistrustful of this whole newfangled interweb thing, so you'd rather send a check in by mail.
2. Call your phone service provider and demand the ANI and PBX records about the calls, saying that they spoofed Caller ID and violated the TCPA. (Look those all up on Wikipedia.) You may need to make your demand in the form of a subpoena.
3. Using that info (most importantly, you need their actual business name and address), go sue them in your local small claims court for $2500-$7500.
If you really want, you can sue them in superior civil court for all that plus injunctions, damages, lawyer fees, etc etc etc - but it's more of a pain. Small claims court is pretty easy, at least in CA. Just look up your county court's website for info.
See more info on these scum, legal summary, & outcome of my suit against them @ my blog: http://saizai.livejournal.com/896354.html
See more info on these scum & outcome of my suit against them @ my blog: http://saizai.livejournal.com/896354.html
:-) (Hint: Skype + Audio Hijack Pro)
:-)
(This includes full addresses, phone #s, a rundown of the relevant laws they're breaking [TCPA, TSR, CA CLRA], etc.)
Key info:
James C. "Jim" Sletner (info@safedatainc.com)
SafeData Management Services, Inc C2330112 (CA)
530 722 9099 (work)
Jim's lawyer: Jennifer Shaw
legalcompliance@cdwsnow.com / 800 209 3755 x197
They also have a Nevada front:
Consumer Direct Warranty Services aka AA Auto Warranty Services aka Manufacturer's Direct Warranty Services aka Warranty Administration Services, Inc. C306269
(702) 207-1001
In MY CASE (which may not be yours), the telemarketers were:
National Dealers Warranty Service
*** DIRECT LINE 949 309 3750 x0 ***
They also have 3751,3752, etc. I haven't mapped out the full set, but feel free to do so and email me if you do. I'll add the info to my post above.
If you call the direct line above, they will react EXACTLY as if their autodialer called you, because they can't tell the difference! Again, if you do this, email me your recordings.
PLEASE NOTE: The caller ID that you are getting is FAKE. They spoof it. Whoever's it is in actuality, it's just some poor bastard who happened to have that number - don't bother the person. Go after the real ones.
What you can do:
1. Lie to them. Pretend like you're interested. Get three critical pieces of info: the COMPANY NAME, a DIRECT phone number (they first give you an 800 number, ask if you can have a direct line), and a MAILING ADDRESS where you can send a check. Remember, pretend you have an actual car that you want to warranty, and you're just really mistrustful of this whole newfangled interweb thing, so you'd rather send a check in by mail. (Worked for me!)
2. Call your phone service provider and demand the ANI and PBX records about the calls, saying that they spoofed Caller ID and violated the TCPA. (Look those all up on Wikipedia.) Your demand will probably have to come in the form of a subpoena, alas. (I'm sending one to AT&T as part of my suit.)
3. Using that info (most importantly, you need their actual business name and address), go sue them in your local small claims court for $2500-$7500.
If you really want, you can sue them in superior civil court for all that plus injunctions, damages, lawyer fees, etc etc etc - but it's more of a pain. Small claims court is pretty easy, at least in CA. Just look up your county court's website for info.
Have fun with them.
http://s.ai - http://s.ai/foia - http://s.ai/tsa/legal - https://patreon.com/saizai
isn't an option here. Nor is "get a large quantity of peasants" (except in New Jersey, which inexplicably has brought back peasantry).
A perfect example. Hacking a Yahoo account is fairly trivial. It was some 20 year old kid that just did some simple password guessing.
And of course, the FBI came down on him like a ton of bricks.
I wonder if someone illegally gained access to my email account if they would even notice. I'm guessing not.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
The FCC is the agency responsible for handling telecommunications matters and their regulations govern telemarketers, etc. A complaint should be filed with them with regards to the matter you describe.
Also, there is you state attorney general or equivalent. They will often investigate such matters.
In addition, if she is receiving threatening phone calls, contact your local law enforcement to report them right when they occur. The people who made them will certainly get in trouble, but it will prompt action.
Someone will address it if it gets in the media; you don't need to attach some poor schmuck's name unless it's already been escalated and the escalation has proven ineffective.
Anyone halfway competent with more than a year of actual management exposure in gov't will work to address the issue before it gets to the media. Despite the bureaucracy and politics they have to deal with, you can be certain they don't want to be on or contribute to the "zomg gov't is incompetent" news feed if given a clear option.
At least for some agencies, for those that deal day-to-day with judging/ranking/prioritizing people and services, they probably won't bat an eye to brush you off because they know the press ignores equity/effectiveness issues every day when it comes to certain programs. But I believe the FCC is surprised when people submit complaints to them at all, so the might actually be responsive if a little disorganized.
this is just armchair quarterbacking; i dont work for the feds.
you're screwed. Face it. This is like a spammer using your e-mail address as sender. Only with spam people know that it's a false sender. It will be a matter of time until called people recognize the fact that you can't trust caller-id unless the FCC would do something against this. Then again if the FCC does something against it you can probably spoof caller-ID from other countries.
I just watched that whole film again, and no where in it does Linda Lovelace use the words "follow the money".
I will have to watch it again a few times to make sure, though...
And now I can claim it is 'research"!
THANKS!!
Acts of massive stupidity are almost never covered by warranty. --me.
Carriers started filtering IP spoofing years ago.
Carriers also need to filter out ANI that is not for numbers on their networks at the inbound edge.
Having worked with carriers for over 15 years, ANI is known to be generally worthless for accuracy. If you get a valid ANI from the network, great. If it's mangled, wrong, or otherwise stupid... it happens.
The only way to clean it up is that all good (large) carriers must agree to dump any incoming ANI information that's not a number on their network.
+++OK ATH
If no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-TEAM.
mirrorshades radio -- darkwave, industrial, futurepop, ebm.