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Bluetooth Versus Wireless Mice
Meneguzzi writes "Having stuck with wired mice for years, I have recently been impressed by a couple of cordless mice I've used on other people's computers so much that I now want to buy one to use with my Mac Book Pro. However, while shopping around for the perfect cordless laptop mouse I was stuck with the question of whether to go for a bluetooth mouse or one of the many proprietary cordless mice with tiny USB receivers. To my surprise, there seems to be little literature systematically comparing these two options for attributes like precision, battery life (both for the mouse and the laptop), RF interference, and whatnot. As a Mac user, bluetooth has the advantage that it won't take up a USB port, and (in theory), would consume less battery than a USB port, but I wonder if this is actually true in practice. On top of that, I noticed that there are far fewer (and less fancy) options for Bluetooth mice than there are for proprietary cordless ones. Logitech, for instance, has a very basic Bluetooth Mouse, while its proprietary options are much fancier. So I was wondering what are the experiences from Slashdotters on this particular type of hardware, and any recommendations."
You want what Apple suggests. Anything else sucks in comparison IMO.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
I've always gone for bluetooth since, well, everything has bluetooth inbuilt now and you don't need to plug in proprietary usb receivers into laptops, netbooks, etc.
I can't comment on how they compare to the propeiety wireless usb receiver types since I have never used on.
You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
Honestly, I have recommended it to everyone I know. It's quite honestly the best mouse I've ever used.
It's only flaw is that it doesn't have Bluetooth, but at the same time its battery life is about 4 times as long as my desktop's (also a Logitech) Bluetooth mouse.
"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
...And we'll fight about every little detail, go off-topic, crack jokes about welcoming you to the year 2000, debate form over function, laser over inferred, brand versus brand versus model, and in the end you'll still have to decide for yourself.
Have you at least read the reviews on Amazon? Are we only deciding blue-tooth versus wireless, or do we have to pick the exact model for you? Is your 'perfect mouse' going to be someone elses 'perfect mouse' and vice-verse?
Not actively trying to troll here, but wanting to bring your attention to the fact that it ends up being a very heavy personal decision based on your preferences, hand-size, availability, etc...
Logictech does have some advanced bluetooth mice, but I only know of them selling them as a bundle with a keyboard. I have the MX 5500 and its pretty nice. ( http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboards/keyboard_mice_combos/devices/3481&cl=gb,en )
...is that a dedicated wireless tech like Logitech's is better than Bluetooth.
My Bluetooth mouse at work occasionally lags behind, or sometimes stops moving for short whiles (even when it's not fallen asleep). Generally it seems the Bluetooth layer adds the occasional issues encountered with wireless networking in general.
I haven't ever seen this with Logitech's dedicated wireless devices.
Then again, I could just be a victim of bad drivers. :)
.: Max Romantschuk
Also - wireless mice take moar power.
Row row fight the POWAH
Mac OS X long ago learned to cope with mice sporting more than one button. OS X even does The Right Thing (context menus) with the secondary mouse button by default.
And now, with the new touchpads in MacBooks (where the "button" area is also part of the touchpad), you can set it up to pretend it has one button, or two.
Here's another news flash: OS X can handle standard PC keyboards, too! If it generates a standard USB HID code, OS X can deal with it.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
I don't think I'd ever use a usb-wireless mouse simply for the fact that it's eating up a usb port. When I can connect my mouse to my computer without occupying any of the ports I can't think of any reason not to. And bluetooth is a very good connection, at least in all of my experiences with it.
"Educate the mind but never at the expense of the soul."~Blessed Basil Moreau
I personnaly own a Logitech MX900 it does come with a usb pluggable pod/receiver but it is fully bluetooth compliant. I never pugged the pod's usb cable anywhere, just the power cord to recharge the mouse. And it has always worked flawlessly.
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-MX900-Bluetooth-Cordless-Optical/dp/B0000CEPDF
I've used several bluetooth and RF wireless mice. One thing you should consider is that when the CPU is bogged down the bluetooth mouse will become jerky and unusuable.
Your decision to move to a system that requires an independent power supply (batteries) is an invitation to Murphy to send his law to your house / place of work at the most inopportune moment.
Oh, and radiation. I'm sure it'll kill you too. Bluetooth will force you to visit your dentist too.
Plus what are you going to fight off the ninjas with if you don't have a mouse cord?
Holy surrealism, bantha!
I have used multiple mice, from high-end logitech gaming mice to the cheapest available bluetooth mouse. I prefer a wired mouse for desk use, but for a portable platform such as a macbook i would definitely recommend a bluetooth mouse. In my experience they have not been laggy or jumped. Also you dont realize how annoying the dongle is until you have to deal with it while on the road.
Go with Bluetooth. While USB wireless mice can be good, if you're not looking for anything terribly fancy, a Bluetooth mouse will more than suit your needs. I also recommend getting rechargeable batteries - some mice go through batteries ridiculously quickly, so it's a great investment to get two pairs of rechargeable AAs or AAAs. Keep one pair charging until you need them, then swap - no downtime at all.
Based on these findings, and my own experience in the embedded arena, I would hazard a guess that all these Bluetooth mouse vendors are using the same embedded microcontroller, probably with the same embedded firmware. Hence, they all suffer from similar problems.
The only mouse's reviews that didn't seem to mention these issues (at least, not as bad as the others) was Apple's wireless MightyMouse. Of course, the MightyMouse has its own set of issues, such as the pretend secondary button, but if you can work around it, it's kinda sorta not too bad.
Again, this was about a year ago. I don't know if things have improved since then.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
The new touchpads were a bit of a surprise but now I like them a lot. When I use my Dell I get frustrated because the touchpad sucks.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
I was looking for a nice low cost Bluetooth keyboard/mouse combo. I remember seeing a number of them about 2 years ago. Now, that I want to switch to it, I am not seeing it.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Unless there is a wired kind of Bluetooth, should the title be "Bluetooth and non-Bluetooth wireless mice"?
Or would I be wrong to say that I prefer USB mice over wired mice?
If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
I've used... 4? 5? different Bluetooth mice with my Powerbook and MacBook Pro over the past several years. The biggest issue I've had, with the lone exception of Apple's Wireless Mighty Mouse, is that Bluetooth mice take a significant amount of time (often a few seconds) to "wake up" once they've gone into power saving mode.
I've observed this same issue with Microsoft's Bluetooth Mouse (Intellimouse Explorer, IIRC), a Bluetake mouse, a Dell mouse (not sure who makes it for them), and another mouse whose lineage escapes me. If the mice haven't been moved for several minutes, you have to wave them back and forth like a madman for several seconds before they'll start to respond again.
It's certainly not an inescapable shortcoming of Bluetooth, because my Mighty Mouse doesn't have this issue - if you start to move the mouse, it responds immediately, even if it's been inactive for minutes or hours.
The Mighty Mouse has another shortcoming, unfortunately. The scrollball design is really cool and intuitive... until it gets gummed up and stops working in one direction. This WILL happen to you, repeatedly.
I love my Mighty Mouse... except when I hate it. Right now my scrollball is gummed up again, so I'm in the "hate it" camp at the moment.
#DeleteChrome
I have the Microsoft "Bluetooth Notebook Mouse 5000" and it is pretty good. It definitely looked like the best reasonably priced bluetooth mouse I could find - it really is surprising that the selection is so poor. I think they haven't pushed them into the market as much as they could have, especially now that everyone knows what bluetooth is because of cell phone headsets (even though those make you look stupid ;) ). I'm a linux user, but you have to give Microsoft credit where it is due - they may make a terrible OS, but their mouse division is excellent. I prefer their mice over all the other brands.
Anyway - it works great. In use it feels no different than the "Laser Mouse 6000" I use when at home (the bluetooth one also uses laser, which I've found is actually nicer to use than LED optical), other than being smaller, of course. So there is absolutely no loss of precision - I've used it to make minute photo edits without a problem. And I've never run into interference. I mean, you're probably going to use it right next to the computer, so you should have an excellent signal. I have, however, used it from 20-30 feet across the room with my laptop hooked up to a projector, and it still had the same precision and no interference.
As you may have figured out from above, I don't use the bluetooth mouse when I'm at home at my desk. I have a USB hub with a few things plugged into it, including the Laser Mouse 6000, so I just plug that in when I get home with my laptop. That's because a full-size mouse is easier to use, not because the performance is any different, and it's also to save batteries. However, the battery life is actually excellent - with normal usage, the two AAA batteries the mouse uses last several months or more for me.
Apparently some bluetooth mice go inactive after a while, and take a couple seconds to respond again. As you can imagine, this would be annoying. With this one, though, while it does go on standby after several minutes, it starts responding again in under a second. It's never annoyed me because of that.
Pairing it with the computer works flawlessly as well; after the initial pairing all I have to do is switch it on and it starts working after just a second or two, with no intervention required. Of course, bluetooth is partially broken in KDE 4.2 and it takes some fiddling, but that has nothing to do with the mouse and I assume with OSX it works.
Finally - I don't like the idea of having to plug in a little receiver. It wastes a USB port, which are often lacking on laptops, and it would surely be easy to lose. Besides those mice being cheaper, I simply don't understand why you'd want to add another thing when your computer already has bluetooth built in.
I tried a Logitech's bluetooth device and it stopped working after a while. I had to restart my bluetooth on a computer. I asked around and some of my colleagues have had the similar problem. Then now i have a logitech IR mouse and it works like a charm.
I've used 3 mice in their range.
The problem is the mouse goes to sleep very quickly (only a few minutes) and then misses movements for quite a time (perhaps 1/4 second) when waking. It tries to compensate by getting the first movement it recognizes and multiplying it up, so your first movement when the mouse wakes is usually a huge jump in one direction.
Also, they don't seem to use terribly good optical sensors in their Bluetooth mice, they have more trouble with surfaces than any other logitech made in the last two years.
The only Bluetooth mice that don't have this problem are Apple's, but they don't have real buttons on them.
I still use a Logitech Bluetooth mouse on my Mac Mini, but I keep wishing for something better.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Since I used to schlep my MBP to work every day I went with the VX Nano over a year ago. When I bought my second MBP I was hooked and bought another (Circuit City close-out, red, without the glide wheel, @ $29).
Battery life is about 4 months with the original, well over that with the newer model, as it take AA's vs. AAA's.
They have surprising range as well, I can stretch out on the floor five feet away or more away from my home set up, and run VLC to play .mkv files just fine.
Some days it's just not worth
chewing through my restraints.
I am a Windoze and Mac OSX user. New PC. Older Mac...
Alhtough I have not used BT mouse on the Mac, I have extensive experience with BT mouse/Keyboard on the PC.
I won't get another BT setup. It's that simple.
Because it works most of the time, and when it doesn't it is a cow. This has been with Logitech almost exclusively. So, the fault may be with Logitech itself> I have never ceased to be amazed at how complete and utter shit the Logitech drivers are, juxtaposed against the amazing hardware they make.
For my money, the VX Nano mouse with the world's smallest USB receiver is the single best laptop mouse money can buy. It is superb. Especially on the Mac.
My only complaint is that the VX nano uses the middle click to exclusively switch between free-wheel and notched scrolling mode. This is a dire and severe flaw, and it should be controlled by drivers, not the device! Retards.
The VX Revolution wireless for the main PC is absolutely stunning, but once again the Logitech drivers will, from time to time drop all your settings, forget you exclude ALL applications from the control list - making your buttons go whack when you are in a long list of apps.
Battery life is monumental - espcially for the VX Nano. It has a power button, but you don't need it. 2 x AAA rechargeables run the thing for weeks and weeks of solid use. And the low battery indicator probably shows for longer than most mice will run with a full set.
The VX Revolution battery lasts at least 4 weeks between charges, and that's with full time use.
So, I'd say for get the BT, and just go wireless. The range of mices is better, and you'll end up with more hair on your head.
You're still gonna lose some hair because of the whack drivers - but hey. Nothing's perfect.
How many escape pods are there? "NONE,SIR!" You counted them? "TWICE, SIR!"
Go for the bluetooth thingy. You won't lose a USB port, and you won't get annoyed by this stupid radio receiver which sits 5 cm away from your mouse. You might as well take a wired mouse, since the wired radio receiver will still clutter up your workspace and claim a USB port. Stupidest thing I ever bought.
Mother in law has the apple wireless desktop, which includes a BT (afaik) mouse.
I started transferring pictures off of a BT phone onto the mac. The mouse became unusable. It was like using windows 3.0 while formatting a floppy disk. You'd move the mouse all the way across the desk; it would move about 1" on the screen.
If you ever do anything else with bluetooth, i'd avoid a BT mouse.
I've got a MS wireless mouse and a logitech wireless mouse. The logitech doesn't work at long distances very well (its setup in my HTPC room and from the couch its performance is spotty). Every few months it will forget that it knows about the PC it's attached to and you have to re-sync it.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
Problems with both BT and IR:
IR mouse has further disadvantage that there must be visibility between the USB thingy and your mouse.
Therefore if you are organized (i.e. never forget to take spare batteries and never put anything between mouse and USB thingy) athlete (doing arm training) go for wireless.
If you are disorganized nerd like me, keep wired one.
:: There is no light at the end of a tunnel. There is a tunnel after a tunnel : Thom Y.
I have a related question someone might have experience with.
If a lab of computers (maybe a dozen in close proximity) is equipped with wireless mice, will there be interference or are modern wireless mice smarter than that?
Would using BlueTooth be better than wireless? Or should we just stick to wired?
-David
Bluetooth (BT V470) mouse seems to be heavier and less responsive. It obviously draws more power, so uses two AA batteries. The proprietary (RF Laser MX or smth.) mouse - two AAA. The wheel of the BT mouse can not be set to free rotation, but there are handy FF and REW events generated by tilting the wheel. Also BT seems to have higher latency to wake up after put to rest for a while.
I would say RF mouse should be superior to BT in almost all regards. Except that I still ended up using the BT. May be because I find it somehow cool to use BT with Linux :-)
...a stunned silence fell upon the hall.
I have a Razer Pro|Click bluetooth mouse and to me it's working pretty well. The battery life seems excellent, I can probably go two months without changing batteries. It uses 2 AA batteries. An improvement possibility there, with li-ion rechargeable, but then you'd add some cost. Bluetooth though, is simply brilliant. I never think about the connection. My laptop has always-on bluetooth, together with the wifi, so I just flip on the mouse itself and 3 seconds later I can move it around. The accuracy for office work is adequate, but I have one annoyance with it: Every once in a while, it freezes. Either it unfreezes by itself after 10 seconds, or I have to switch the mouse off and on. It's one reason, that while doing CAD design, I prefer a wired mouse which never fails.
You've basically answered your own question, by pointing out that Blueooth saves a USB port, uses less battery, and doesn't require a proprietary dongle. I like Logitech's wireless USB mice a lot, but I'm on my third USB dongle lost already. For my Mac laptops I've switched to...gasp...Dell's Bluetooth mice. I just like the feel of the mouse, and the precision is pretty darn good. With a black MacBook, Dell's Bluetooth "travel mouse" coordinates pretty well.
I really can't stand Apple's Bluetooth Mighty Mouse. I don't like the feel of the mouse, or the tiny little scroll wheel, or how there are no real physical buttons. Too often it issues a standard click instead of a right-click, even though I'm pushing to the right of the scroll wheel. Guess I'm not pushing it far enough to the right of the scroll wheel...and that's just asinine.
:q!
May I suggest a mouse that I have been using for the past 1.5 years? The Logitech VX Revolution. It is one of the best (if not the best) notebook mice around right now. http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mice_pointers/mice/devices/165&cl=US,EN
FYI, I now own nearly identical spec. Logitech mice. A bluetooth and another with a little USB thing to go with it.
As an Ubuntu user, I first found www.hidpoint.com that promised to provide drivers to get my proprietary mouse to function. To date, they've never delivered a driver I can use, say in 64bit.
However to my shock and amazement, sometime a few months ago, the proprietary unit Just Worked! Seemingly it was some Ubuntu patch. I had to try on several boxes and it worked consistently. I think those hidpoint folks might redirect support accordingly perhaps, just to save everyone's time?
BUT, before this happened, because I really needed a wireless mouse, I bought a bluetooth since I used Ubuntu which Logitech CLEARLY does NOT support. Battery life sucks thick canal water!!! Like daily recharge? WTF!?
meanwhile months after the fact, I am still using the free El Cheapo batteries that came with my proprietary Logitech USB mouse, while the bluetooth mouse that costs about 175% of the proprietary model sits idle for this reason.
You can't be ahead of the curve, if you're stuck in a loop.
I tried several mouses; the Logitech Nano was the easiest to set up. Works with Linux out of the box. The resolution is good, and has no "go to sleep if not used for a while" quirks. It uses a pair of AA batteries that run it for about 3 - 6 months. There are several variants, some have the tiny receiver and some a larger one. Some have just the two buttons and the clickable scroll wheel, some have more buttons. I found all the extra buttons, specially the side by side button on the wheel to be excruciatingly aggravating, and not so easy to deactivate. I've been using the Nano V450 which is plain. The quirkiest under Linux was a Microsoft Intellimouse that liked to have the pointer move randomly on the screen. But it worked ok in Windows with its proprietary driver. I gave it away to some dumb guy that uses Windows and he is happy with it.
Performance wise, I play World of Warcraft with it. It has no lag issues or other performance issues. And, since I am on a small MacBook Pro screen, I don't need a higher DPS mouse.
Battery wise? I leave one mouse on all the time. I've gone through three sets of batteries this year. Not bad.
Sleep/wake performance? As poster above, excellent. I just move it an it goes. When I put it to sleep, I just slide the infrared cover back and click the button. In moments it reconnects.
Button/scroll functionality. This can vary as it is subjective. Some love the Mighty Mouse, some do not. It did take me a while to get used to.
First, make sure you turn on two-button clicking after connecting it. I had another two-button mouse hooked up previously, but I still had to go into my Mighty Mouse settings and tell Mac OS X that, yes, this is a two-button mouse. You may also want to mess with the scroll wheel or side buttons here. (My side buttons pull up Expose -- all-windows. I love it!)
Second, the scroll wheel can take getting used to. It is sensitive -- more so than most. You can also spin it to where it keeps spinning beyond where you want it to go. (Just have to put your finger on it, but different than the less sensitive wired-mouse scroll wheels I had previously.)
It also gums up. My 1-year old mouse began doing this after about 6 or so months. This likely depends on how clean your desk area is. Mine is not clean.
To fix it, turn your mouse over and place the wheel on a clean sheet of paper. Then, proceed to roll the mouse (upside down, via the scroll wheel) along the paper in many different ways. This clears out the gunk and gets it working again.
You can find Youtube videos on this. Some also provide other methods of cleaning it.
I love my Mighty Mouse. It just makes sense if you own a Mac. I also love having my USB slots.
Sincerely,
The one Too Lazy to Log In
I'm using bluetooth mouse made by Microsoft myself with my macbook pro. It works surprisingly well, all five buttons of it. The only annoying thing compared to cheap rf-mouses is that when it goes to sleep, which happens fairly quickly after inactivity, it takes few seconds for it to reconnect. Reconnecting is done by just moving the mouse, but during the connecting time, cursor does not move.
Having stuck with wired mice for years
To untangle a snarl, loosen all jams or knots and open a hole through the mass at the point where the longest end leaves the snarl. Then proceed to roll or wind the end out through the center exactly as a stocking is rolled. Keep the snarl open and loose at all times and do not pull on the end; permit it to unfold itself. As the process is continued the end gradually emerges. No snarl is too complicated to be solved by this method; only patience is required.
http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/tangle.html
I don't know if this helps, since you aren't stuck anymore.
I have been sticking with my RF Receiver mice (Logitech VX Rev / VX Nano / G7), even though I have most branded Bluetooth mice available, including Apple Wireless Mighty Mouse, Razer Bluetooth Notebook Mouse, and the Logitech V450 bluetooth (I might have got the model number on this one here).
Anyways, after using the wireless mouse with just simple RF Receivers dedicated for that purpose, I never went back to BT Mouses, just because the tracking is usually shitty. The pairing is a pain in the ass (and no, you don't pair it only once, if you lose the connection the computer failed to pair on boot, you will have to pair it again). The latency with the bluetooth connection is unbearable (there is a definite, but minimal lag from mouse to pointer when compared to RF mouses). And no, I am not even judging bluetooth mouses to gaming standards here.
With good branded RF Mouses, connection is like wired mices, plug in the receiver and go. Lose a connection? Unplug receiver, plug receiver, continue productivity. Tracking is generally better than its bluetooth counterparts, and any mouse movement generally gives immediate feedback.
And ok, Bluetooth mouses look better overall and does not take up an USB port. But usability and ease of use suffers in turn.
My roommate had a bluetooth Logitech mx1000 and i have a rf mx1000. The difference in performance and battery life is huge. The RF mouse was sooo much better. If you are only planning on web browsing though i would imagine that it is pretty inconsequential, but if you are gaming or doing anything mouse intensive you will regret bluetooth.
I've been using a Logitech wireless trackball for a while and it's just fine for me, but I'd probably still recommend Bluetooth. We had an incident at work recently where a new WiFi network took up a huge proportion of the available 2.4ghz spectrum and killed the mouse we used for seminars stone dead. Bluetooth has more advanced signal processing and we've replaced the old mouse with one of those.
"There are three schools of magic..."
You got a Mac, why not deal with the core problem? :)
At the least the belkin mouse I had. There was always a delay when moving the mouse, which makes any kind of graphic work impossible.
Non-Linux Penguins ?
Does your sense of righteousness and superiority take up?
this is absolutely going to blow your mind but my 2.5 year old Dell laptop running XP has an integrated bluetooth module.
Get Bluetooth if you have it built in. Even if you don't have it built in (which having a Mac you do) get Bluetooth. It beats having a dongle for every damned device you want to plug in (keyboard, game control, mouse, headset) the Bluetooth one can do all of it.
DO NOT get a fucking Apple Mighty Mouse. I've had a couple, great idea in theory, but not a good mouse in practice. Right click sucks. It works at first and stops working over time. If you completely remove your index finger from the mouse and click with your middle finger you can usually get a right click, or if you take out the batteries and put them back it works again. It's not worth it. The ball always gets fucked up over time, you can fix it and it will work again for a while, then fix it again, and again, and eventually, not anymore.
Get this Logitech, reviewed it, you can find my review in that link, and I did chastise Logitech a bit, but when compared the other Bluetooth mice I've used that's the best.
The USB wireless mice do have one advantage. They work immediately on boot up no problem on every OS. With Bluetooth I've found that to be the case with Linux. On Mac I have to either hit the connect button while booting with the Logitech (the Mighty Mouse actually did better at this - go figure) or fidget with the buttons and hope the Mac pics up on it after a while. With Windows, well, very mixed experience there, especially when it forgets the mouse should exist.
On my Macbook Pro I always carried a mini bluetooth keyboard and a mouse in my bag, and I left a bluetooth keyboard and mouse on my work desk, used Synergy at home. I had at least 3 each keyboards and mice paired with it, they all worked great every time. I even paired a bluetooth headset with it, but that seemed to be problematic. Audio quality would degrade with time, and the applications were stupid, if the headset wasn't present it wouldn't automatically switch back to the built in or external mic/speakers. Not to mention I paired a Motorola Q, a Blackberry and an iPhone. The Q was awesome with it, surprising since it sucked all around otherwise. The Blackberry was functional, but not that great. There was no point with the iPhone. I don't even see why it's pairable.
Linux on the other hand, I've paired everything above and a PS3 Sixaxxis, the Mac I could only get that to work via USB.
I like Bluetooth, I'm pushing Logitech to support it a bit better, and I can't wait for the day the dongle dies. The electronic dongle, not my dongle.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
Run a speed test before and during using a bluetooth mouse.
With the bluetooth mouse performance sucks. There is interference.
I own a wireless mouse with USB dongle, and a MacBook Pro, so I'm exactly where you want to be.
While I like the specific mouse I have a lot, if I had a choice of this mouse as bluetooth or USB, I would go with bluetooth in an instant.
When you actually travel with your notebook (and why else have one), over the years you will accumulate a good number of instances where you simply left the USB dongle at home. In your average home setup, with keyboard, mouse, iPhone, printer, etc. you have a USB hub involved, and that's usually where you'll plug in the mouse dongle. And more often than you think, that's where it'll still be when you're 300 km away, digging out our mouse and realizing it's useless.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
I've been using Microsoft's wireless laser mouse 8000 for the best part of year with both my work and home computers as well as my laptop and I have to say Iâ(TM)m extremely happy with it. Admittedly you have to pair it when moving between systems but that is where the pain ends.
The mouse is incredibly responsive and the only lag Iâ(TM)ve experienced is when initially booting you can have up to 5 second where the mouse is unresponsive which is not really noticeable considering you wait much more than that for windows to finish loading (and even a mac os).
Battery life is also excellent and I've left it off its charger for many weeks without the thing dying on me. But saying that the charger is not unattractive and happily sits at my desk where I can plonk the mouse on it when going off for lunch etc.
As a web designer I'm often fiddling around with images and the option of programming one of the buttons to increase the precision is a godsend allowing detailed editing and manipulation (also great when gaming).
I do not know if the Logitech Cordless Desktop Pro works on the mac as the OP uses but I am after 5 years still satisfied with mine.
Big dongle and uses 2 USB ports. Comfortable keyboard with Logitech layout. Comfortable mouse with too few button (2+1+wheel). 2 AAA batteries for the mouse and 2 AA batteries for the keyboard. I use normal alkaline batteries because during the last five years I have changed batteries 4 times (2 times kbd and 2 times mouse) so there is no need of rechargable ones.
Proprietary wireless protocol. Doesn't go more than a meter or so, it has to lie on the desktop. Sometimes (4times a year) it behaves erratically (reacts slowly) but a few minutes later it is working alright again. Low batteries make the setup behave erratically in the same way.
FWIW
a) a power switch
b) a short wake-up time
not to light or heavy, with a centred mass
Some mice go to sleep in as little as ten seconds and then take a second or two to wake up and start transmitting again, almost unusable because mouse use is intermittent.
The whole reason they developed the proprietary transceivers is because, quite frankly, Bluetooth sucks for the task of mousing. Go proprietary. The new transceivers are tiny, they barely even stick out of the USB port, and the power usage is lower than a typical USB transceiver.
I have experience with lots and lots of mice, because for several years I went on a tear of buying a new mounse every couple months looking for one that didn't suck.
I finally settled down on two:
1.) Logitec MX Revolution "desktop mouse" (by which they mean non-changeable battery that needs charging cradle).
2.) Logitec VX Nano laptop mouse.
Note that on the Mac, these mice come with software that is not only the very worst mouse driver ever produced by humans, but is some of the worst software ever made, period. It will crash your whole Mac (kernel panics), and break OS upgrades in a grey-screen-of-infinity (google "logitech unsanity").
That made me really try my hardest not to buy them, but in the end I think the MX Revolution is the best mouse HARDWARE yet made. You need a third party shareware driver; I use Steermouse.
Pros of proprietary:
1) Instantaneous connection; no pairing and weird unpairing.
2) Available mice are better.
3) Better battery life (in my unscientific testing with a few mice of each type).
4) The fucking mouse doesn't stop working from time to time for no reason.
5) The newest smallest dongles are so small you can still slide your notebook into a sleeve case.
6) No jiggle-jiggle-wait dance while your mouse rouses itself from its battery-saving slumber, as with Bluetooth.
Cons:
A) Lose the itty-bitty dongle and your mouse is useless.
B) Takes a USB port.
C) It's proprietary.
Apple, of course, has a funny history with mice: after basically introducing the mouse the the general computer user, they then proceeded to stick with the retard-oriented one-button mouse for years and years, and also designed some of the very worst mouse hardware in human history (perfectly round hockey puck iMac mouse).
Their latest offerings still suck horrifically in my opinion; I have many wired and wireless "Mighty Mouse" turds, but wouldn't every really use one.
I don't like making myself a Logitech customer, mainly because their software is so fucking bad that somebody should have to do a few weekends in jail for it, but the combo of their best mice with somebody else's driver is the best thing going on the Mac, I think.
Two things that I am still looking for:
a) Fucking charge the fucking mouse with a standard fucking USB cable please (mini-USB is fine).
b) Fucking put a vaginal USB port on the ass-end of the penile one, making it a little one port USB hub that is every bit as tiny as the current smallest dongles, so that we don't need to give up a USB port.
c) The Mighty Mouse does do a good job of scrolling in all directions, not just up and down. The Logitechs can do that too, but they have a tilt-wheel kinda awkward going left and right.
Bonus Note: The Logitech MX Revolution has a cool feature whereby if you flick the scroll-wheel hard, it disengages the resistance and really flies, scrolling through many many pages (it scrolls for like 7 seconds or so). Move it normally, and it operates normally. Press it and it is button 3 like a normal mouse.
This is really cool, and you will use it all the time once used to it; flick hard, scroll scroll scroll, and then tap the wheel gently to stop it. Really reduces how many times you have to bend your finger, and feels cool to boot.
However, I think the default turd Logitech drivers set this up differently, where you push the scroll wheel to toggle scroll modes, instead of having it auto-sense by the force of your scroll. That is stupid, since it breaks the button-3 functionality and feels clumsy, too. The cool way I have it set up might be a feature of my driver, Steermouse. I can't be positive since I would never install the Logitech driver to find out.
I am Mac sysadmin. I admin about 50 Macs in a design agency. The Apple Mac Mighty Mouse is usually the first thing that the designers throw out (bad form factor, cramps in the hands, poor right click functionality, the scroll ball gums up far too often and is difficult to clean, the cord is far too short etc) and the wireless mouse compounds all of that with terribly poor battery life and bad response times. The only way it'll be useful is if you use rechargeable batteries.
Do yourself a favour: get a Logitech RF wireless, whichever one suites your tastes. They have fantastic battery life (8 months on my Logitech LX7 ) and Logitech almost certainly has one that will fit in your hands. Personally, I love the hard rubber grip on the sides of their mice.
The downside is that you need a USB receiver for them.
Bluetooth and 802.11 (wifi) both use 2.4 GHz spectrum and interfere with one another. Some routers have "bluetooth coexistence mode" to weave 802.11 transmissions into time slots that it doesn't expect nearby bluetooth devices to use but it's better to just avoid bluetooth for a mouse imo. The FCC filing for my Logitech MX700 shows that it uses 27 MHz https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/tcb/GetTcb731Report.do?applicationId=463065&fcc_id='JNZ211596'
I found that at least my bluetooth mouse can lag badly if further than three feet from the computer's BT antennae or has any (even small) obstacle. I've tried this on about 4 computers and it seems to be the same with each.
Otherwise, it works really well.
Does anybody who dual-boots have a solution for the shared Bluetooth adapter MAC address pairing problem?
That is, currently I have a nice set of BT stereo headphones and soon (hopefully) a BT mouse. When I pair in Linux, it generates a key which is unique to the MACs of the adapter and the device and stores the key on both PC and BT device.
Now, what happens when I reboot into Vista? It doesn't know it has been paired, but the BT headphones *do* think they are still paired to the BT adapter that is present. These particular headphones are capable of remembering five hosts, but in this case the adapter (host) hasn't changed, only the OS.
I guess the solution is to manually force Vista/Linux to use a previously known key file. In this case, I know where Linux stores its BT pairing keys, but try as I might I cannot find where Vista stores this information. Google hasn't been able to help me here, either. I assume it's buried somewhere deep within the darkness of the registry, but where?
Without this fix, I have to re-pair my BT headphones every time I want to use them in a different OS on the same machine, and then re-pair yet again when I boot back into Linux. I'll probably have to do the same dance for a BT mouse, which will dramatically reduce its usefulness... :(
So... surely I'm not the only one to run into this. Anybody else with ideas/solutions?
Elrond, Duke of URL
"This is the most fun I've had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"-Sam&Max
I tried a few standard cordless mice, and had to go to bluetooth to get further than about 1.8 metres or 6'. The garden variety ones wouldn't reach from my home theatre PC to the coffee table. If you want to use it for presentations or at least from a distance, make sure to check the range - although most boxes won't state any distance/range.
Mainly as it doesn't involve messing about with drivers.
Put teensy dongle into your PC and as far as it's aware there's a physically wired mouse and keyboard plugged in.
Doesn't matter what OS, whether it's POSTing, whether your BT module has decided to wake up etc etc. You have a working mouse and keyboard. Maybe Bluetooth has improved since I last tried - put I really can't see the advantage (and seemingly neither can the marketplace).
It's just a bloody mouse. Pick one! You sound like the kind of fool who will just loose the dongle anyway, so go for the bluetooth.
I set up a training workshop with a number of cheap Microsoft mice, and yes, they did interfere with each other. These were standard RF, not Bluetooth. I would venture to say Bluetooth mice uniquely pair with your PC and would not have the same problem, though someone else may correct me.
The upside however was that the range was fairly small so I was able to separate them enough to minimise interference. I would still probably recommend wired mice if you're going to have a lot of them, though.
"In the absence of the ability to establish the attribute of truth they tried to establish the noble attributes."
very good people .i like it
The only problem with keyboards, at least for en-GB locale ones is that some of the keys are in different places. For example @ and " are swapped round, and a few other symbol keys have been rearranged. I had to find an en-GB Mac keyboard layout for the copy of Windows XP I run in Parallels.
I concur with the fellows who say that it is your decision, and this is a frivolous question. Surely you have not wasted my time; I have read this thread for ten minutes and don't feel disappointed. I've had one incident where Windows was unable to detect a bluetooth mouse. Maybe the mouse died, I don't know, I just replaced the mouse with a Logitech wireless. I don't see why bluetooth would be any slower than another radio frequency mouse. I think performance will be the same, BT or RF.
Realistically, this is a very low risk to most people. However, session hijacking and packet sniffing via TCP was considered a low risk as well in the past.
One reason I go for BT mice over generic USB radio is the fact that BT traffic is encrypted once the devices are paired. Someone sniffing traffic would not be able to figure out your mouse patterns, or even worse take control of your mouse and start clicking on stuff.
Similar with a BT keyboard versus a wireless keyboard and either intercepting keystrokes or injecting them.
Logitech DOES have a fancy modern Bluetooth Mouse, it's the MX Revolution. Unfortunately, the bluetooth version of the mouse seems to only be available by buying the keyboard and mouse set. Otherwise, you can only get the MX Revolution mouse on it's own in proprietary RF style.
I've been using it as a desktop mouse in both windows xp and linux and despite a few small quirks, I love it. I've very much gotten used to the auto shifting scroll wheel and am quickly approaching "how did I ever live without it". It does take a second to start up after idle but never more than 1 second. It has a lot of buttons and a very responsive laser sensor.
Personally I would use a Mighty Mouse Pro or whatever it is in your situation just because it goes with the mac, is a more compact design (for stowage) and has replaceable AA batteries (I think it will even run on only 1 battery). The MX Revolution has a charging cradle (which they finally improved and fixed from the old fiddle-with-it-for-an-hour pain in the ass cradle that would never make proper charging contact) and non-replaceable batteries.
One other advantage (I think it is an advantage) is that bluetooth is better about dealing with interference from other bluetooth devices and from other devices in the same bandwidth area as bluetooth. Thus, if you're working in a public place around other bluetoothers or RF mousers, I think it is naturally more likely that you can mouse in peace with a BT mouse than with an RF one, but this is a partially untested hypothesis. I've seen 2 RF mice fight with eachother at work whereas I've used two BT mice at home without problems. There aren't many good choices for BT mice out there for whatever reason, but keep asking about it and maybe manufacturers will pick up on the trend again and we'll see more and better designed bluetooth mice.
i havent a clue why anyone would use a wireless anything on their desktop system, as if the monitor cable dosent exist. between the lag and battery sucking it just dosent make any sense to me. from your post it sounds as if you dont have any BT devices as of now, so i would go with usb mini dongle instead of opening your system up to bluetooth. i could definatly see problems with all kinds of BT phones earpieces and whatnot around, but if your stationary get a wire.
Some bluetooth controllers will support storing a set of link keys directly in NVRAM on the device, so you could pair with Vista (ie configure vista to know about the device) and then pair with Linux (configure linux to know about the device) then write the linux key to NVRAM and whenever a connection is made, The OS won't be asked for the key as the device will provide it directly.
I think the hciconfig(8) command can do this if you are using BlueZ/Linux. (For NetBSD/OpenBSD/DragonflyBSD use btkey(1), for FreeBSD use hccontrol(8) - I know nothing about Windows or Mac)
I've used several (CSR, 3com) devices that support this, but the BCM2045B in my current laptop does not
I recently went back to a wired mouse. Frankly, the wireless freedom (from the advertisements) is hardly noticeable in practice. The battery life still sucks, and gets worse as the batteries get older, and also, quaintly enough, as the mouse gets older. Wake up responsiveness is better now than it used to be, but still annoying. And the mechanism tends to fail in old mice, making them either die before they're really worn out, or drain the batteries with a vengeance. Range is limited, especially if you have large metal objects in the vicinity. If you sit at a metal desk... Well, to cut a long story short, I went back to a simple (but ergonomic) wired Logitech and I'm happier with it than I've ever been with a mouse, so wireless is far from the holy grail.
@ being swapped with " is the difference between en_US and en_GB
I have switched back about 5 RF wireless workstations a couple of years ago to wired for that very reason. We had interference from the same labspace and from our neighbours on both sides (all in all about 10 devices fighting over three RF channels).
I'm now completely wirelessless again, and a lot less irritable.
what so many others have said:
The Apple "Mighty Mouse" is the best mouse to use with the Macbook Pro. There are several reasons for this. Let me take care of the negatives first:
(1) Right-clicking can be a pain. You have to move your finger way over to the right-hand edge of the mouse, and maybe even lift your other finger. This is the one thing I can say that they really screwed up. On the other hand, considering that their original mouse had only one button, it's still an improvement.
(2) The bearing surface is a smooth (teflon?) ring, all the way around the mouse. As a result, there is a bit more drag than there is on other mice, and the ring tends to pick up a bit more dirt than other mice do.
Now for the positives:
(A) At least there is a right-click. And in fact there are actually 3 buttons: press the ball on the top for the 3rd button, much like you press the wheel on other mice.
(B)I got that wrong. I forgot about the side-buttons, which work as a pair. Squeeze them together, and they behave as a 4th button.
(C) The Mighty Mouse works seamlessly with the Macbook over bluetooth. In fact, my regular work setup is a Macbook Pro with a Mighty Mouse and their bluetooth keyboard. There is NO noticeable lag, glitching, or delay like there are with some wireless mice. It is rock-solid.
(D) The battery life is great even if you just walk away at the end of the day, and if you want even more life, there is an off-switch on the bottom. I have had this mouse for over a year, I am a professional developer, and I often do not bother to turn it off at the end of the day. I think it was just last week I inserted my 4th pair of AA batteries.
(E) The ball on the top is a full trackball, far superior to wheels, even the wheels that tilt for side-to-side. You get full 360-degree control, and very smooth. Nothing else on the market has a full 360-degree secondary control like this. Scrolling horizontally is as easy and instinctive as scrolling vertically.
(F) This is the only control device (mouse or trackball) I have EVER owned for more than a year without having to at least partially disassemble it for cleaning.
I am not sure what else I can say. The right-click could use some improvement. Big deal. And the ring on the bottom should probably be 3 or 4 teflon pads instead; also "big deal".
And you are getting this from a long-time Windows person. There are some Apple practices or design decisions that I am still not convinced about. But as for the Mighty Mouse: the pluses so far outweigh the minuses that this is a no-brainer.
Bluetooth is already Wifi friendly since version 1.2 ( See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth#Bluetooth_1.2 ) = no interference.
But as it is still using the same spectrum (ISM band = about 2.4GHZ), this means that if using the same chanel, they can be situation where it suck some of the bandwidth. But be sure Bluetooth is not as sprectrum greedy as 802.11n ey ;-)
Actually, you are right there is interference with wifi ... but with the proprietary wireless mouse using 2.4GHz (today's high end wireless mouse use this band). And there you have no standard that ensure your mouse is not fully jamming the spectrum & killing your wifi bandwith.
So between Bluetooth and proprietary ... choose Bluetooth but at least 2.0 (1.2 is fine, but 2.0 has added more speed).
The only problem I see is that manucaturer prefers to build proprietary stuffs, because it is usually less costy to produce : compatibility test, interference, etc. So, at this time, you will get less choice out for a bluetooth mouse.
FYI, My graal Bluetooth mouse shoud get :
- minimum 2.0 EDR
- cool wheel
- nice design
- AAA batery/accu friendly
- miniUSB plug to charge
- full functional thu cable using a miniUSB cable
- instant on
- laser motion detection
- cool look & rock solid
Any suggestion ?
Absolutely NOT the cheap wireless.
I had some and the experience was outright horrible. The battery fails fast, the range is like 40cm from the receiver, and random interferences make the mouse to fail.
I don't know about "top of the line" wireless, but I got a decent bluetooth mouse recently and I don't want to look back.
One significant minus is start-up time. The bluetooth service loads quite late and takes a few seconds to connect, which means it takes some 10s of staring at the loaded desktop screen before it starts working. It also took some work to hook up. But when it's working, it's working. I never noticed any delays, any loss of precision or reaction speed, it works just fine several meters from the receiver, and the battery life beats the old ones.
I still have the receiver of the old 'proprietary wireless' mouse plugged in. It has a charger built in, and I have two sets of accumulators for the bluetooth mouse - one in the mouse, one in the charger.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
I have a Targus wireless Bluetooth mouse which I use extensively. The biggest reason for me to go for this is that my laptop has just 2 USB ports and I didn't want to sacrifice one just for the sake of a mouse. The mouse comes with AAA rechargeable batteries that can be charged using a USB cable that the manufacturer has provided. Fair enough for me!
Having aging vision, I can no longer live without the proprietary(?) "Magnifier" technology which I get with the itty-5th-button on my Microsoft "Wireless Intellimouse Explorer 2.0". On Windows-XP it is instant GLASSY-SMOOTH magnification even as you continue to move the cursor. Evidently there are problems with the fancy compositing technology because it just doesn't work as smoothly under Vista or Windows-7.
Actually I am not sure this excellent technology is totally proprietary, as long as I get it for free with my mouse I need not research further - but I would of course be interested in any insight on this.
For the longest time, I've searched for a decent left-handed ergonomic mouse. Well, I settled on the Logitech MX-610. It has a little proprietary 2.4GHz dongle. I found the mouse to be horribly jerky in movement, the pointer jumps, button clicks sometimes just don't respond. I found to solve this I had to use an USB extension cord and keep the receiver TAPED to the side of the mouse (losing the 'ergonomics' of the mouse itself). I called Logitech and they said I had a faulty dongle.
They shipped me an entirely new package -- mouse, dongle, manual, the whole retail package (FANTASTIC customer support!!) however, I had the same problem. I found it was my wireless router in the other room. I've got four computers that are wireless and a Playstation 3 using WiFi. When there is NO network traffic, the mouse works perfectly!
So, keep that in mind. If you're using all 5GHz stuff, you should be fine. In my case, I have a couple of PDAs that I use that are 802.11b only. But be mindful of your router!!
"Congratulations, Boots. Your robot has become self-aware. You're a daddy now." -- Dr. Rho Bowman
Russians just use a corded mouse
I recently bought a wireless mouse because using the pad on the eeePC is annoying (just like for all laptops and netbooks). Whilst I decided on a USB wireless mouse based on it's looks and how it feels in the hand, one bit of information I looked for was VERY difficult to find online. There is no discussion on the security of using a wireless mouse as opposed to a wired one.
I would never use a wireless keyboard in case your keypresses could be intercepted, but there is so little information on the security of wireless devices like mice or keyboards. Range is not mentioned, transmission power is not mentioned, is it really a good idea to bathe yourself with more radio waves all day?
Take Nobody's Word For It.
The apple mouse is crap, I've had two. The MS basic optical cordless of a few years ago was great and batteries lasted forever. but I wanted a smooth, heavy, industrial mouse so I went back to a corded G9 logitech mouse. I have a wireless bluetooth keyboard, which is nice to use, but you have to remember to turn it off.
Before going out and buying anything, ask yourself why you want wireless.
I've been using a Marble Mouse---don't let the name fool you, it's a wired trackball---for some years now. In normal use, my wire just lies still on my table.
If getting rid of wires is a Good Thing with mice, I assume it's because when you move the mouse you also move the wire, and the movement (not the mere presence) of the wire is what's really annoying. That's how I remember my personal experience too, but don't trust my memory too much :)
So, if you want to get rid of moving wires, trackballs are also worthy of consideration.
And really, isn't that all you want from a wireless mouse: not having the wire move? Or do you want to point and click while lying in your couch? I can recommend a wiimote for that, use some candles or other infrared sources as a sensor bar :)
The other really annoying thing with Mac Keyboards is that there isn't a # key. Makes it a pain to write code when you have to press alt-3 every time.
I have two mice that I've been switching between -- a microsoft laser mouse 5000 and since I just got a razer mamba I've been using that. Both use proprietary connection protocols.
The microsoft laser mouse pairs instantly, but, it takes a lot of effort to actually press the mouse button. The razer has much smoother tracking.
Actually, I don't mind the wire that much when I'm working from home, I have a very good gaming mouse from Logitech there. My problem is that this mouse (and it's wire) are very bulky when I am traveling, and not only the weight and volume of a full wired mouse impacts me, but the whole process of packing up to leave a place I park myself to work is more annoying with the having to wrap wires. Although the weight factor might not seem a lot, it's by saving in every small detail when packing that you get a lot less weight in your travel package.
www.meneguzzi.eu/felipe
I use this one on my htpc -
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823111040
Funny, I wrote a review of this product but the product now shows zero reviews ;-)
Anyway, this keyboard is tiny and has some compromises, like a shift key only on the left side of the keyboard. There is no configuration utility for the trackpad which irritates me - and Synaptics or Alps utilities just don't work.
But - I love this little keyboard. I wouldn't write a novel on a keyboard that's about the same size as a netbook and sometimes it takes two or three tries to connect, but battery life on the keyboard has been good and if I had it do do over again I might buy something a little bigger, but this one works pretty well.
I did my research and bought a Bluetooth dongle I knew worked under Linux and the whole thing was pretty much plug and play.
we see things not as as they are, but as we are.
-- anais nin
I use a MoGo mouse with my laptop. Its a tiny rechargeable mouse that first in the PC Card/x54 slot in the side and recharges there. So it's storage is *inside* the computer which is pretty cool. It uses bluetooth for connection, and I've never had any issues with it.
I don't know how the battery life is though, all I know is it outlasts my laptop and I put it back in its slot and they both charge at the same time.
I love that little thing.
I have used a bluetooth mouse with a iMac and Macbook you years with no problem pairing, Make sure you turn off wake on bluetooth or macbook will restart from sleep when mouse turns off. I have found battey life to be poor with bluetooth I use recharables now,Using Kensington mouse.
I bought a ThinkPad Bluetooth Laser Mouse and used it for some months, and it's the best mouse I've ever user. Strangely nice rubberlike cover material, and overkill build quality ("built like a tank" as the review puts it).
Review that I think is fair:
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4407
Lenovo's shop's page:
http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:item.detail?GroupID=38&Code=41U5008¤t-category-id=E9ADAEB6787146E29B78400A33E7FE8A
I have a Logitech laser bluetooth mouse. I can't overstate how good it is. First it's Bluetooth, so I never worry about plugging dongles in my laptop, second, it's laser, so a couple of batteries last for over SIX months, I use it for a couple of hours a day in average. I never turn it off. I don't even have to think that it's there, just reach for it while I'm using the computer. This kind of invisible almost magic technology is what everything should be.
I use a Mac and went with a Bluetooth mouse after using a USB one with a Mac and PC.
I tried the Mighty Mouse but did not like it, mainly because I prefer the multiple button design common on PC mice.
I use a MS Bluetooth Mouse 5000 - which I like because it is small and hence easy to carry around. I really don't miss any of the more advanced features some mice have since I mostly use it for browsing (page forward / back) and Office tasks which don't need a lot of buttons in general use.
Why bluetooth? No need for dongles - I use the mouse and my Targus pointer concurrently to run presentations and don't have two dongles to connect. Plus, there no dongle to lose if I forget to remove it from the PC (sometimes I use someone else's PC to run a presentation); although you will have to pair the mouse and need a PC with Bluetooth to be able to use it on someone else's PC.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
I have wanted something simple for a while now. I don't understand why it isn't obvious. I want a wireless and USB mouse. A wireless mouse that you can plug into USB (it has a normal USB socket on it where a mouse cable might be. The USB cable charges it when it's plugged in and you can still use it while it's charging.
How hard would this be?
Oh and I used to use a thing called synergy to allow a mouse and keyboard from one desktop to be used on another. What about a wifi mouse eh?
The other difference is that there is one extra key on en-GB and all other European keyboards vs en-US.
Shift 3 gets you a # symbol on en-US keyboards. On en-GB it gets you a £ symbol. The # is on the extra key next to the Enter key.
Alt-Gr 4 gets you a € symbol on en-GB keyboards. I don't think it does anything on en-US keyboards.
On UK Apple keyboards, @ is Shift+2 (i.e. same as US). On every other UK keyboard, the same key combination gives you "
I am Mac sysadmin. I admin about 50 Macs in a design agency. The Apple Mac Mighty Mouse is usually the first thing that the designers throw out (bad form factor, cramps in the hands, poor right click functionality, the scroll ball gums up far too often and is difficult to clean, the cord is far too short etc) and the wireless mouse compounds all of that with terribly poor battery life and bad response times. The only way it'll be useful is if you use rechargeable batteries.
Do yourself a favour: get a Logitech RF wireless, whichever one suites your tastes. They have fantastic battery life (8 months on my Logitech LX7 ) and Logitech almost certainly has one that will fit in your hands. Personally, I love the hard rubber grip on the sides of their mice.
The downside is reciever that you need a USB receiver for them.
I won't argue with your comment regarding the form factor of the Mighty Mouse but I still like it because it doesn't take up much space. Also the MM still runs if you only put only one battery in it, none of my Logitech wireless mice did that. The MM can be flaky, my first MM had flaky right button functionality, the replacement worked fine. I like compact Notebooks and ancillary equipment and when it comes to compactness you can either have your cake or eat it, not both.
Regarding whether one should get a USB wireless mouse or a Bluetooth mouse I would without hesitation recommend to Meneguzzi that he get a Bluetooth mouse. I have had two of the Logitech wireless notebook mice with USB receivers that I have used with Macs. When the USB receiver was removed both of them regularly caused kernel panics in OS X and Flaky behavior when used with Windows. The connection reliability of Bluetooth vs. USB-wireless is in my experience about the same. Also it is way to easy to lose the USB key (thus, AFAIK, bricking the mouse) which is a problem you don't have with Bluetooth.
Recommending wireless mice often gets you critical comments from gamers. My answer is simple, if you want to to play a lot of games, especially 1st person shooters get a corded mouse or a game pad. My personal choice when ever rarely I play 1st person shooters is an old corded Logitech "gaming" mouse. Wireless mice are hopeless for anything other than strategy games like Civilization, WOW and I have also heard somewhat unfavorable comments from people who require a high degree of mouse precision in things like CAD and Photo processing apps. If you do use a wireless mouse for "gaming" then do keep an eye on the battery level, you might find your self out of juice at a critical moment and there is nothing more fantastic than the incandescent fury of WOW fanatic who misses an important moment due to equipment failure.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
However, I think the default turd Logitech drivers set this up differently, where you push the scroll wheel to toggle scroll modes, instead of having it auto-sense by the force of your scroll. [...] The cool way I have it set up might be a feature of my driver, Steermouse.
On Windows, it's a standard feature of Logitech's drivers. You can also set different scroll modes for different applications.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
And the whole £ vs # issue. And the placement of the \ key is a whole lot more sensible. And the return key is double height, which is VERY useful!
Mac OS X long ago learned to cope with mice sporting more than one button. OS X even does The Right Thing (context menus) with the secondary mouse button by default.
Actually it recognises three: if you are in the terminal you can select some text and past it at the prompt with the middle mouse button.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
I recently bought a Microsoft Bluetooth Notebook Mouse 5000, and I must say I'm amazed. The only downside is the wake up time, which is only half a second. It's a great mouse, comfortable even for me (I have a big hand), trackball has a great feeling and it's so easy to install and use. Not having a dongle is a big plus too. Too new to judge battery life though. And the price, 35 bucks. Not too expensive...
For my laptop, I use the white Rocketfish BT mouse. This gives me good response, good battery life, and short wakeup time (next to none).
Given that I am constantly on the go, I do not want to mess with a dongle hanging out the side of my laptop when I have to plop the laptop out on a job site.
For my desktop, I use my tried and true Logitech wireless MX Rechargeable.
If you've got a newer MBP with a multitouch trackpad, I can't understand why you'd ever want a mouse. From two-finger scrolling and two-finger clicking to three-finger gestures and beyond, I've never wanted to go back to a mouse. I feel the multitouch trackpad is the best input device improvement since the original mouse.
sigs are for fools and trolls. no signature is *always* appropriate. you should turn them off in your preferences.
Wireless mice and keyboards add annoying delays several times per hour. My anecdotal experience is that Bluetooth is significantly worse than proprietary RF. Is it the protocol, or the drivers? The original poster is right - there is no good survey of this problem, and no explanation from the vendors. I'd expect them to compete on reducing this problem, because it far exceeds the "break the flow" delays I suffer from any other part of my system (except for Comcast!)
I have a Microsoft 8000 Bluetooth keyboard / mouse on my Macbook Pro, and I'm pretty sure I'd be better off with a corded keyboard and Logitech proprietary wireless mouse.
My interest in wireless keys & mouse is eliminating some wire-plugging every time I move my laptop between home & office. Now I think a USB hub is a better solution.
At home I use a wireless trackball. At work I use a wired trackball. The reason is that at one point or another, the batteries go flat and you can't work anymore. Obviously at just that moment you will need to finish a report and there are no other batteries available.
At home I just stop doing what I was doing on the computer and do something else while the batteries recharge.
So whatever you decide, keep that in mind as well.
Concerning the use of an extra USB port you should look how often it happens that you don't have enough or use them all. Also look at how your ports are positioned and how large the USB dongle is. I have three ports on my portable, but often can only use 2, because the USB keys overlap the middle one.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
If you're intending to use the mouse in a living room environment, where the mouse may be some metres away from the receiver, it's a no-brainer.
I went through every wireless k/b+mouse setup available when they first became available, and found that if I wanted to use the mouse on a heavy oak table (or similar), the signal would be blocked.
Then the next-gen of k/b+mouse setups came out - and as they'd nearly all reduced their range (the assumption being that you'd be sitting at the desk anyway), they were even worse.
Then I got Logitech's first Bluetooth offering, and have never looked back. I don't have to worry about what my device is sitting on or behind - I can turn the volume up or down *from the toilet* (=2 rooms away), in a 130yr old house with THICK walls - never mind being in the same room.
The same goes for the M$ version - once you're onto bluetooth, those previous worries disappear.
One thing to watch - security. All the BT offerings will work out-of-the-box, but unless you install the s/w and 'pair' the device, you're open to having your typing monitored...
I have used the Logitech LZ548AP Bluetooth mouse daily with a MacBook Pro for 2.5 years... I first got the Apple wireless optical and it was too lame to suck another mouse's ball, virtually everything was wrong with it, so I opted for the Logitech. At the time they only came in a darker grey, some time later they started making an identical model in a silver that matches the MacBookPro's aluminum color scheme, if you care about such things. Oh, and while my Logitech mouse was en-route, Apple made a big splashy announcement about the Mighty Mouse - which I must admit is not as lame as it's predecessor, it can at least suck its own ball.
So, both the Mighty Mouse and the Logitech suffer from what I refer to as Mac Bluetooth Lag - this is something I experience daily on boot-up, where the bluetooth devices (I also have an Apple BT keyboard), just don't start working until 10, 20, sometimes 60 seconds after bootup. Clicking on the buttons seems to wake them faster, so that makes it an interactive problem you'll notice every time you boot up, if you just ignore it, they save some delay until you've interacted with them, then they make you wait just a little longer just so you know they're not working when you want them to. I'd attribute this to my noisy RF environment at work, but it's actually something about the MacBook Pro - it also happens at home.
Bluetooth radio range with the 2006 MBP varies from poor to shockingly short. Range seems to decrease as the batteries age, so when you have to place the mouse in contact with the notebook for it to function, you know it's time for a fresh set of batteries (NiMHs seem to last about 4-6 weeks per charge, which says more about the batteries and my usage patterns than the mouse, but that's what I'm living with.) Even with a fresh set of batteries, I max out at about 4 feet at work and maybe 10 feet range at homes, I suppose due to the heavy RF environment at work, though my new Vaio gets 10' or more at work with the same mouse - go figure. Either way, 4' is plenty of mouse range for my desk, so that doesn't bother me.
Response time on the Logitech Bluetooth is adequate for normal office work and graphic design type stuff (like defining an outline path in photo-editing), but not so great for games - if you are serious about games, stay wired - a $20 wired laser-mouse will out-perform anything wireless.
An earlier poster mentions that the multitouch trackpad is so good that you don't need a mouse, and that's sort of true for me, I leave the mouse (and keyboard) at work and just use the built-ins at home. But, for me, the ergonomics of having a mouse in the right hand and having the right hand wherever I want it (and if I have to say "on the desk", dear reader, it is you who has the sick mind) is worth the hassle of changing batteries once a month or so.
The major reason I stick with the Bluetooth accessory items is the "cool factor" of not having a dongle to mess with / lose, etc. In my opinion, that's a biggie. For the PS3, I got a long-range wireless keyboard/mouse with a dongle that easily covers the living room and all adjacent rooms too - but that's a different application, the PS3 hasn't moved from its shelf since we got it - it bugs me a little that the dongle could get detatched and lost or dunked, thus hosing the keyboard and mouse in one fell stroke (5 and 7 year olds, and their friends, have done stranger things) but that hasn't happened yet. My notebook is another thing altogether, it travels every day and is setup for use probably 500 times a year between home and work, so I really don't want the dongle thingy to worry about in the notebook's world.
I have been using a Radtech BT600 (http://www.radtech.us/Products/BT600.aspx) for a couple of weeks now and I am very impressed, it nicely addresses your USB charging issue and, in a pinch you can use it as a USB mouse also.
The build quality is very good, a solid mouse though it is a little on the small side it doesn't weigh very much and even though I have a lot of bluetooth devices it can pair with it consistently chooses the right one.
Installation was perhaps the smoothest I have ever experienced (Vista x64) - I paired it with the computer and everything just started working within 5 seconds.
It has a convenient recessed off switch on the top, time between on/off switching is about 1 second. Tracking is on par with my favorite wired Intellimouse. The buttons are nice, not too sensitive the left/right are a bit loud, the side buttons are a bit stiff but not bad and the wheel is quiet with a good feel.
I don't know much about the battery life but one review claimed 2 weeks with it switched on all the time.
All in all I am very happy with this mouse.
my biggest issue with bluetooth mice is they are a bit laggy compared to say a logitech with the proprietary dongle. Bluetooth seems to drop out a bit more.
suffisive to say, i would never trust a bluetooth mouse for quake or photoshop...maybe just every day things like the internet
For keyboards its another story, bluetooth works great
I have used my Apple-branded wireless keyboard / mouse combo (Bluetooth) for a year now and can tell you how it has measured up:
1. Difficulty repairing Bluetooth connection upon changing batteries
I don't know what the deal with this is, but I end up having to reboot because it doesn't pair up with my iMac upon changing the battery.
2. Right click on mouse is a little eh.
If you train yourself to hit the far right of the mouse, then it works fine 98% of the time.
3. Side squeeze takes some effort and not really worth it
I have remapped my mouse such that Expose uses the middle click whereas Spaces takes the squeeze. I hardly ever use it.
4. Some people have problems with the keyboard due to size and key spacing.
I haven't had any issues with it but I know my cubemate complains about it all the time due to his sausage fingers.
5. Lacks home / end / page up / page down / delete keys.
I really had to learn some strange ways of replicating these keys with the Apple wireless keyboard. If these are a must for you, then do go with Apple wireless keyboard.
6. Lightweight
This thing is really light and if you want something stylish, then it is a double win.
Microsoft's 'Wireless Notebook Mouse 5000' is the one I recommend, after getting it on recommendation from others. It only takes a moment to wake up from long periods of inactivity, has a power switch and is just a plain good mouse regardless of wireless considerations.
I would say it depends on what you are using it for--if you use the mouse pretty much continuously for large stretches then a bluetooth would be fine. If you use it only occasionally and use the keyboard more, go for the standard RF and suck up the USB port. It also depends on how many ports you have available. If you are already using most of your ports, that kind of changes things. I would definitely say go with Logitech, regardless of which you choose--they have a wide variety of mice and they are all quality.
I loved the Logitek wireless keyboard and mouse so much I got another for my wife. She kept having issues with the mouse and keyboard going crazy. Finally replaced them on her computer. Only later did I realize that the real problem was a baby monitor.
Is he strong? Listen bud, He's got radioactive blood.
I am not familiar with Mighty Mouse (other than the ancient cartoon), wireless or not, but an optical mouse doesn't need a mouse pad.
Now, I do know that some iMacs come with a classic mouse with a rubbery surface-tracking ball that is picky about the surfaces you use it on, in addition to being insanely sensitive to a little dust. The only surface an optical mouse usually doesn't work on is a high-polish extremely smooth reflective one. My matte-formica-like tabletop is ideal.
So no mouse pad needed.
Every problem has a solution that is simple, easy and wrong. Selling our Liberty for a little Security is a much too de
IMHO virtually every (on topic) issue here is about implementation details. Sure any wireless mouse can lag if you develop it to be highly CPU dependent (currently running Fah with 100% CPU use and no noticeable difference in mouse tracking).
It's probably better to talk about specific models rather than talk about generic things like BT vs. prop wireless.
For example I use a Microsoft Wireless Notebook Presenter 8000. It seems to work flawlessly as a mouse - it's not really a great presentation tool though - although it is fun to have a laser pointer built in.
I bought it mostly because it is small and doesn't use a dongle (although it comes with one if you don't have BT).
It also seems resilient to ambient wireless noise. There is a bank of Macs in the hallway behind my office and I can see them all when I try to pair it (as well 802.11abg is running in the area).
Mac OS 7.5 long ago (1994) learned to cope with mice sporting more than one button.
Fixed that for ya.
I picked this up a couple of years ago and the mouse works really well. The keyboard isn't compatible with OSX and has Logitech's lame ins/del/home/end/pgup/down layout which as a programmer I simply can't use so I sold it off. I'm still very much enjoying the mouse though.
One huge advantage of Bluetooth over conventional wireless mice for me is their lack of susceptibility to RF interference in the HF spectrum.
Conventional wireless keyboards and mice operate at about 27 MHz (very close to CB frequencies, just between CB and the 10m amateur band). As an amateur radio operator using high-power HF, if I use my wireless mouse while I'm transmitting anywhere from 18 to 28 MHz, the mouse (or keyboard) loses communication with the base receiver immediately on key-down and takes a while to come back after I un-key. Using bluetooth (which, IIRC, is in the 5.8 GHz range) this isn't an issue.
Cheers, Peter, W2IRT
Seriously -- this is the argument that I hear from people over and over again, but you really have NO idea what you're talking about...
When's the last time you used a this-gen wireless mouse?
I have a VX Nano (first gen) from Logitech, and it it great. I can find no difference between it and a wired mouse. The batteries last like 6 months, and you can go for like a week after the low battery indicator comes up.
Also, the Nano has a "search" button on top right behind the scroll wheel, and mapping that button to "middle-click" is stupidly easy, so I've had a middle mouse button from day one.
Also, do they even make IR cordless mice anymore? The Nano has a receiver so small that I've never taken it off of my laptop, and it's RF. I've plugged my laptop into my LCD TV and used the mouse from like 15 feet away on the couch...
Lastly, organized and "wire" don't go in the same sentence. My receiver, when I do remove it to go to another computer, stores INSIDE my mouse. No chance of loosing it, and my cat won't eat the cord.
WIRELESS MICE 4 EVER!!11!!!
My ancient ThinkPad A22m has only one.
Then again it doesn't have BT either, but at least the BT dongle can talk to more than one device at a time.
I own two wireless mice, one by Logitech (part of a a combo set containing a wireless keyboard) and the other by (gasp!) Microsoft. Both of these things worked with my Debian laptop right out of the box. I hadn't bothered with getting a Bluetooth interface when I bought my laptop.
I just bought a laptop for my synagogue and got the "XP downgrade". While choosing components and accessories, I noticed two things: that the Bluetooth software needed on the laptop depended on whether I was getting XP or Vista, and that the same Microsoft mouse I own was going to cost half what the Bluetooth mouse was going to cost. I chose the proprietary mouse.
My wife has a Bluetooth mouse she bought at my suggestion for her XP laptop, and she has never reported any problem with it; however, I don't think she uses it much, as I found it behind the couch the other day.
It seems to me that these proprietary wireless things must do more of their processing in hardware than on the CPU, and I continue to by mystified as to why the proprietary devices continue to be significantly cheaper than the open standard ones.
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
The problem I have had with Bluetooth though is the "bus" or bandwidth boggs down when I have my cell tethered. Mousing becomes almost impossible do to it's erratic behavior. Pairing via Bluetooth is more of a hassle but only by a step or two. Pairing via RF doesn't involve the OS/CPU and for me has always been simple. Press the button on the mouse and the receiver and they find each other without software.
Cheers
Link33
...I had tons of Mice to play with (though I wasn't in their mouce/keyboard) department.
Anyhow, Here is what I can tell based on experience and currently owning and using both Bluetooth and Wireless mouse from Logitech. On Mac and PC.
- Logitech Wireless technology is very mature, almost flawless, offers more bandwidth to mouse than Bluetooth, helps in gaming.
- Bluetooth mice have a very slight lag at start of mouse movement, u become accustomed to it in a day or so. Almost as if they were in sleep mode and had to wakeup.
- If you game, stick with wireless, lag will drive you in sane.
- Battery life is effected more by Laser or Optical vs Bluetooth or Wireless. I can't notice much of a difference.
- I don't charge either of the mouse for weeks (they are both laser). Use them for few hours every day. they charge in under an house when the battery is down.
- I repeat, if gaming, stay away from Bluetooth
- On my PC (though never on Mac), the damn Bluetooth mouse sometimes hangs. Possible Bluetooth drivers, but I can't say.
- Oh Pairing, thats a bitch. Consider a keyboard and a bluetooth mouse, its not paired to your mac, so you either use shortcuts to get it to pair with your mac, or use another temporary mouse. Problem is compounded if keyboard is also bluetooth. You basically have no way to tell your MAc what to do, unless you hook up another keyboard/mouse.
- On Linux, stick with wireless, it is detected as any good old USB mouse.
If you can spare a USB, go with Wireless.
If that slight lag at start is a non-issue, once paired to a Mac, the BT mouse works great, without issues.
My Wireless Intellimouse Explorer 2.0 has worked flawlessly since the day I got it and I'm a graphic designer. (That'll be 50 bucks, Bill)
As I said in another thread I work for Your Federal Government. Part of my job is to approve hardware and software procurements for this 3,500 user federal agency.
Sometime ago I get a requisition for a cordless mouse with an ergonomic assessment attached. An ergonomic assessment is filled out by a healthcare professional and exaplins why you might need a trackball, an ergonomic keyboard, a huge monitor and so on - and if you need ergonomic accomodations I think you should have them.
Anyway, I get a requisition for a cordless mouse with an ergonomic assessment signed by the head nurse. I call the head nurse and explain that this is ridiculous since mice move in a single plane and that this request (not her assessment) is bullshit.
Unfortunately I used the word "bullshit" in the conversation and HR got involved. In the end I had to apologize to the nurse, the user got the cordless mouse and the nurse told me that although mice do move in a single plane the cordless mouse keeps the user from acquiring or aggravating a repetitive stress because he doesn't have to untangle the mouse cord.
I kid you not.
we see things not as as they are, but as we are.
-- anais nin
I've used a LOT of mice over the years, and I went wireless way back. Currently I use a Logitech MX Revolution on my main home machine and another on my work notebook when it's docked. For travel, I use a Logitech V470. I'm no hardcore gamer, but the Revolution has always performed very well in every application up to and including casual gaming. The V470 is my second Bluetooth mouse (on my second Bluetooth notebook) and also performs very well.
I use my notebook all day every day at work, so I only get about a week of battery life out of the office Revolution, but it charges fairly quickly and I always have the Bluetooth mouse for backup if the Revolution runs low while I'm working. No manual switching necessary, it just works. The V470 runs on AAs, and I have yet to need a battery change, but I've only had it for a few months.
The one thing that will drive you crazy with some Logitech wireless mice, the MX Revolution among them, is their crappy charger design. I love the mouse, but you have to keep the charging contacts very clean (especially on the mouse, where a small pencil eraser helps) and fiddle with placement in the charging cradle waaaaay more than you should, especially with an older one. It's enough of a problem that I've seriously considered "acquiring" some electrolytic paste (like they use on ECG contacts) to make charging easier. That being said, it's still worth it.
To zero in on your original question - I would avoid USB dongles unless they are tiny enough that you can leave them plugged in all the time. I killed my first notebook (the one before the one before this one) by plugging a USB dongle into it one or more times a day - eventually the USB port separated from the motherboard, and everything went to hell after that. This, incidentally, is why I use a dock at work... and why both of my subsequent notebooks have had Bluetooth and a Bluetooth mouse.
So... I'd say go Bluetooth, and the V470 is a good choice if you're after a compact ambidextrous mouse with good battery life and a power switch (you want a power switch). Good luck!
Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.
I'm sorry to double post, but I have to correct the rest of your post now. Since Macs went to USB only for keyboard input, they've always been able to use standard USB PC keyboards. This is not a news flash, and isn't even really that impressive of a technical feat. USB--U, as in Universal...
Also, it is a bit disingenuous to say the secondary mouse button context menus are on by default. You have to turn right click functionality on, because it is off by default, thus you can't see a menu that is invoked by a right click, even if contextual menus are on by default. Some of the smarter Apple Stores turn their floor models' right click on, but I've seen plenty of baffled potential customers trying to figure out how to right click on a Mac (thus perpetuating the 10+ year old myth that Macs only have one button).
I have a multimedia computer in my living room, which is not right next to where I sit. Bluetooth seems to be better for across-the-room distance than RF. The RF keyboards/mice I tried could go a few feet, but were unreliable beyond that, and while fresh batteries made it seem OK, it wasn't long before they were no longer quite new enough to do it anymore. Bluetooth parts seem much better for that.
Never a truer word spoken. there are some apps, blender is mine in which the mighty mouse DOES NOT allow proper and smooth operation. I feel so stupid buying that wireless BT mighty mouse. what a waste for me. I use the Evoluent3 usb wireless. Love it. A lot of people don't know that if your USB mouse is in the Ghz frequency, you'll likely get just as much distance (20-30 ft) as BT. some mice you can get a really small USB dongle so they are nearly invisible with a rounded corner. It can stay plugged into a laptop and slip into a bag without hurting it. The evoluent doesn't have this good a dongle, but it works well anyway.
...::----::...
I am in no way affiliated with this sig.
My Dell Bluetooth Wireless Keyboard and Mouse Bundle will occasionally "drop out" for no apparent reason. Each device dies separately and takes about 5 second to reconnect. The keyboard will occasionally get stuck with whatever key I was hitting in the "down" state, often Backspace, which erases everything I was typing. This leads to loud "aw aw aw!" outbursts, which confuse and annoy my co-workers. For the record, I did not pay $90 for the damn thing either. Dell gave us several as promotional gift a when they came out because we ordered several dozen desktops and laptops.
Us lefties are pretty much left in the dust with these new-fangled ergonomic mice deals. The last time I had the ability to use either hand for a mouse was about 5 years ago. These days, everybody has those thumb-buttons that are your back/forward button. Dunno how they'd make that work for both hands.
I do miss the ability to swap the left/right mouse buttons when I went into left-hand mode. Anybody that tried using my computer would get very confused until they realized I was a lefty.
But to this day, getting a keyboard working in USB mode is still a hit and miss thing. What makes me think "they" can pull off a bluetooth keyboard that works the second I boot? Not bloody likely, I say.
Something tells me PS2 will be around for a hell of a lot longer. Until they invent wireless PS2. Maybe.
The Trackman is the greatest pointer device ever made. And there's no bluetooth version. They have a dongle wireless version, which completely misses the point.
If anybody hacked together a bluetooth trackman, I would pay $200 for it.
Bigtime Consulting - "We're the best because we cost the most"
Your mouse should work perfectly on most whatnots.
I especially recommend this one with ample room for all your accessories.
Nouvelles de jeux et technologies en français. TC
How is a double-height return/enter key useful?
(personally, I hate it because I hit it every time I mean to hit \ or |)
*sigh* back to work...
Logitech sells a BT Keyboard/Mouse combo, and the mouse is a BT version of the MX *Revolution*, the fancy full-size mouse with the free-spinning wheel that will spin pretty much forever.
The only downside is that you can only get this mouse in the bundle with the keyboard, so you'll end up spending way more than you probably want for just a mouse.
Never liked RF dongles... I have a V470 and love it. I rarely turn off the power switch and my battery lasts a couple months. I've been very happy with it. I also use a Apple Bluetooth mouse on my Mac Mini. Which seams to go through battery noticeably faster.
Yes, the cord on my wireless Mighty Mouse is definitely short...
Disagree on battery life - still on my first set of batteries after 15 months.
Disagree on response times - seems as responsive as a wired mouse.
My scroll ball hasn't gummed up, and the form factor is as good as any I've used. Right-clicking does take getting used to, but is fine once you learn it.
No sig? Sigh...
I am using the Microsoft Bluetooth Notebook Mouse 5000 with my iMac. I find it's very sensitive, and after a 20 second or so "reconnect" phase after I come back to wake up my computer with the mouse, it works quite nicely. HOWEVER, sometimes I come back to my computer, and having switched off to save battery power, the mouse refuses to reconnect to the iMac. This forces me to manually reboot the machine and reconnect. This angered me so much. BUT IF YOU ARE USING A MAC LAPTOP, then you could simply use the trackpad to go to your Bluetooth preference pane and reconnect the damn thing. Sadly, my keyboard and mouse are both Bluetooth, so if this fails I feel like a person with no arms and legs...
Go study.
I've a Logitech optical wireless mouse (MX-Laser 20X). It's been great except for a small issue with the usb driver. I fixed that by attaching a PS/2 adaptor and using the regular mouse port.
Other than that it's been great. The charge lasts for days (10 days or more) before I have to set it in the cradle. And even then I've only to leave it there for a few minutes to get a usable charge. Plus the range is great. I like to watch TV shows on the internet so I just lay in bed and use the mattress as a mouse pad. It has a few extra buttons that I don't even use (not even in games) -- mainly because I'm not use to the buttons plus I've never learned to configure them in Linux (lazy).
All and all it's been a very reliable mouse.
No wake-up delay. It does occasionally fail to recognize right clicks, which can be solved by turning the mouse off and then on again. The scroll ball tends to trap dust and stop working, so you have to clean it every month or so. Battery life is 2-3 weeks on rechargeable batteries. My memory is that the battery life is longer on disposable alkalines, and extremely long on the included lithium batteries. If you boot into Windows using Boot Camp, you'll have to click and move the mouse around to get it to resync with the machine.
I had a Logitech LX7 on my old PC before I upgraded to a Mac--it was a very nice, very ergonomic wireless mouse.
Sent from my iPhone
I've had lots of problems finding decent BT mice. One thing I like in a mouse is a button that I can assign as a 'back' button for web browsing. Most BT mice are lacking in features (extra buttons and whatnot).
The only possible reason I've been able to think of for BT mouse models being less popular is that perhaps additional licensing fees need to be paid by the manufacturer. Maybe there is enough demand that manufacturer's can't ignore the BT models, but not enough demand that they will make BT versions of the fancy wireless models.
If I have built-in BT on my laptop I sure as heck don't want to dedicate a USB port to a stupid wireless dongle, no matter how small it is!
-Pete
Once you get over the fact it's sold by Microsoft, it's a great little mouse. The extra button is very useful for Expose. I bought one for my MBP, and will probably get another for the desktop.
So the sad part is that 4 people spent time dealing with an issue that might have saved $20 if you had successfully managed to maintain control of your fiefdom?
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
I've used both types and a wired mouse is far superior and much cheaper. A bluetooth mouse does take too long to wake up, costs too much, and the batteries will die when you need them most. With a wireless mouse with a USB dongle you will lose the USB dongle. But before that happens your batteries will die when you need them the most. And it costs too much. Cheap wired mice weigh less, cost so little you don't worry about losing it, are durable, and always work perfectly.
Been using a Bluetooth mouse on my Macbook and love it. Doesn't use the USB and no problems moving the cursor where I want it to. Definately would recommend for a laptop.
~~~ Charles Hunt ~~~ http://www.charleshunt.me ~~~
They almost always work like a regular usb mouse, and nothing is more frustrating that when your bluetooth won't pair right for one reason or another...
At least the good side of it is that you can fuck around with somebody else's computer with pure random clicks (of course, provided you are able to pair it on the other computer - while he is away).
I use a proprietary Microsoft mouse, but have friends who are happy with Bluetooths.
One cautionary note: My Nokia phone syncs via Bluetooth, but for a long time I had problems with authentication failures. I downloaded updated vendor (Anycom) drivers for my device, and the problem disappeared.
If you add a Bluetooth dongle, be sure to use the vendor's drivers rather than the default Microsoft stack.
A lot of us use bluetooth mice at work with laptops, and my daughter owns one for her laptop at home. They work fine but have very short range.
An old Logitech wireless trackball had a much longer range -- it was our "remote" for the media PC before we invested in Windows Media Center. But it's hard to find drivers for it now.
I'd like to find a modern ambidextrous trackball with a range of about 20 feet, for gaming on the media center. But the manufacturers usually don't advertise the range.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
I think you overthink it. Most wireless mouses are precise enough and can work > 1 month on a set of regulars AA bateries.
Mathieu Pagé
No one is saying (on this thread) that the OS sucks. Its just those damn one button mouses. I can't comment on that because I never used one, but I get a feeling that I prefer multi button instead of multi-interaction with the same button
-- dnl
I bought the Logitech MX5000 about a year and a half ago from *sniff* Circuit City. Moves reliably, I could even play FPS with it, but a wired gaming mouse is just that much faster and more accurate. But for non-gaming it was perfect. It advertised 60 ft range, and didn't seem to have any trouble doing that. Mouse still has a pretty long battery life, and the charging cradle is nice. I did have some bluetooth connection dropping, but ONLY whtn playing games. Of course, that was when it was the most annoying =D. I have since setup another computer for gaming, and the bluetooth is setup on my HTPC in the living room, and the mouse and keyboard are matched perfectly there. The bluetooth range has beat everything else I've seen in a proprietary wireless solution, and thats one of the main reasons I bought it. PC on the TV without a pair of cords between me and the computer. Gaming capable, but not recommended. The MX5500 looks good, but haven't touched that one.
I honestly don't know why people waste time asking this question. It's a freakin' mouse. 2 buttons and a wheel. Most people don't use more and some don't even use that much. Get Bluetooth it takes up one less port. Analysis complete.
Why bother
All those points in my original post are not only my own observations. I've had to replace no less than 38 of the 50 Mac Mice we've had in our company. Most of the users simply find them poor and uncomfortable.
As for the 1 battery, my Logitech LX7 works fine on one battery.
I've never had kernal panics in OSX or BSODs in Windows pulling the USB dongel out, but I don't install Logitech's software, ever. If there is one thing about Logitech that it really bad, it is their software. Use the generic Apple and Microsoft Mouse drivers and you'll be fine unless you have a mouse with lots of buttons.
47 MHz transmitter plugs into usb port for wireless use - otherwise it stores itself in the bottom of the mouse and you can unroll the cord so you will never not be able to use it due to battery life. Its slim line, has a scroll wheel, and what more I got it for CAD14.95ish on special at future shop. Lots of battery life - wakes itself up with a click... unbeatable!!! Since new I have used it wirelessly on the same batter for the past three months and no sign of the battery giving out any time soon...
Get a Wacom graphics tablet. I use my little Bamboo Fun for general pointing with no hassles at all, and less RSI. It surprises anyone who watches me work on my laptop.
"I've spent my whole life figuring out crazy ways to do things. It'll work." -- Montgomery Scott, "Relics"
It is wireless, but you can optionally use a hidden cord...
I would say Dell Bluetooth mice have this market cornered. Pretty much has the same number of buttons as the nicer logitech (5 + tilt wheel) at a slightly cheaper price.
And I want to choke the authors of Linux Bluez to death.
I believe the correct answer is Qualcomm. However Ubuntu 9.04's bluetooth fixes the problem you're stating.
I've noticed a lot of comments about the Logitech V470 Bluetooth mouse, but I have an (apparently) older version, the V270. My comments echo some of the other comments I've read:
-Does not require a dongle if you have BT already built in,
-Good accuracy,
-Good battery life: I change the (2) AA batteries in my V270 about every 2-3 months, and I use it 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, minimum. It has a battery light that blinks when the batteries start to get low, and you can continue using it for another 16 hours or so before the mouse response becomes flaky.
It does go into a standby mode after about 60 seconds of non-use, but will re-engage in under one full second of movement. Leaving it on overnight will put it into a sleep mode, and you do have to wait about 2-3 seconds after moving it for it to come out of sleep mode. It always automagically pairs up after rebooting within 3 seconds. The buttons work well, and the trackwheel works well. This particular model does not side-scroll, the wheel just moves up, down, and in. It is an ambidextrous mouse, and it's smaller than a desktop mouse but not so small you feel uncomfortable trying to use it. I got it specifically because I travel quite frequently, and I put my laptop in a briefcase and take it to a jobsite, so I can't risk having a dongle always protruding.
The only problem I have has more to do with the "radio" switch functionality of my Dell D820: the switch will turn on and off all wireless, including the internal BT adapter. That part is kinda frustrating at times, but I've learned to turn the wireless off at the adapter via software, rather than the hardware switch. That's certainly not the mouse's problem.
Unfortunately it seems Logitech no longer makes this V270. I think that's too bad - I can't imagine a better BT mouse than this.
I can't say that I've done much research on BT versus wireless. Back when I was doing my research to buy a mouse I found that finding a BT mouse was easy, but finding a BT mouse with the features I wanted was nearly impossible. Usb port usage is a non-issue as I always have free ports, USB hubs are daisy chainable, and I actually use the ports that my keyboard provide. USB vs BT vs WiFi should be a more of a question asked when buying a printer, scanner, external HDD, or other long term peripheral device. If you have USB devices that you use regularly, but don't have enough ports (especially with a laptop), you might look into turning an old PC into a server (XP, Ubuntu, Fedora) to keep track of these devices for you via LAN.
I ended up buying the Logitec MX and VX Revolution mice. Both are very nice.
The MX has is lacking a way to change the battery, but is a very functional and comfortable mouse. The charging station means that I don't have to worry about batteries and it holds a charge through about a week of heavy daily use. I use this on my desktop and have tested it on Fedora, Ubuntu, XP, and Vista. It works well on all. Some will have middle click issues, but this should go away after looking at the documentation (hard middle click vs soft). The mouse has enough buttons on it that this matters little.
The VX is an excellent little mouse. It can run off a single AA battery for several months (Long enough that I can never remember when I changed the battery last). It is much smaller then it's MX counterpart, but it's meant to be that way. The VX has a place to insert the USB dongle in it for safe storage. The VX turns off to conserve power and turns off further when the USB dongle is placed in it.
I'd go with Bluetooth as my recommendation. It's got the qualities I need ... low power versus who-knows-what power from a myriad of USB wireless providers who, almost naturally, will have varying emphasis on security versus usability. I like almost no power via bluetooth, designed from the start to be a limited range protocol.
Batteries might be an issue, but frankly regardless of what you choose if they are an issue whatsoever, you are suffering needlessly. Get 4 rechargeable NiMH or Lithium AA's (or whatever it uses) and have 2 charged units at the ready all the time. End of issue, regardless of battery life.
I eat AA's like candy with my Bluetooth mouse (not so much, but every few weeks) and my GPS needed for work (burns through 2 a day, every day). I'm still using the 8 AA's I bought a couple of years ago, and I probably won't need to buy new ones for another year, from the power I'm still getting. They don't last forever, but a few hundred recharges is plenty enough for the cost (if you get grinded, you might pay $20 for 4, but the same reseller probably has 4 with the charger for a dollar more; if you pay attention, you can find them for less). I haven't bought an alkaline in years.
I use the Apple Bluetooth mouse with my MacBook, but it wasn't a smooth adoption due to it's design. The left and right clicks are a bit ambiguous, so I changed mine in the mouse preferences so that it's all left click, with right-click being the middle scroll ball. Scroll up/down and left/right is enabled, and the side buttons are disabled. Works for me, but I wouldn't be against a nice 3-button plus scroll Bluetooth mouse from someone else.
In general, I have been less than impressed with the whole bluetooth standard. As far as gadgets, like a phone connecting to a computer, I have found bluetooth to be very quirky (disconnecting alot etc). I have also found bluetooth remotes (Apple remote for example) to be crap because of interference. The one bluetooth accessory that I have been happy with is the bluetooth keyboard from Apple. It works perfectly.
Ok, I'm not a big fan of the whole idea of proprietary wireless (well, unless it's from MY company), and the extra dongle needed is a pain. But Bluetooth is just involving too much overhead to make a decent mouse.
First of all, there's going to be a relatively huge software stack running on an ARM7TDMI out on that Bluetooth mouse. The end result is that, relative to a proprietary mouse, it's going to suffer from noticable latency and it's going to suck power.
You may or may not be bothered by Bluetooth latency, but it can be significant... 20-40ms, maybe worse depending on their power management. I used amplified Bluetooth for robot and R/C car control years ago, but could not eliminate the latency... faster vehicles were undriveable, compared to even entry-level analog radio. I eventually went to one of the proprietary RF chips (Cypress's "Wireless USB", which has been used by some of the wireless mice), and wound up delivering the lowest latency R/C controller on the market.
The real test is drawing and other types of graphical manipulation. If the latency is noticable, I'll proabably find the mouse bashed against a wall somewhere within a few hours. The Logitechs are indistinguishable from a wired mouse, even for things like Electronics CAD and Photoshop work.
The power sucking used to be a big issue with proprietary mice, too, but going to lower power radio chips, ultra low power 8 or 16-bit microcontrollers, and low-power IR lasers, models like the current Logitech units (I use a VX Nano with my laptop) run acceptably long (months and months). The dongles are now largely contained within the USB plug, so you only get
Interference-wise, it's hard to compete against Bluetooth... 1600 hops per second across the whole 2.4-2.5GHz band is going to deliver a pretty robust link. With that said, the Cypress chips at least a very robust, using 32 or 64 chip-per-bit DSSS on 1MHz channels (my company also implemented a frequency hopping protocol on these, though only 100 hops per second... I rather doubt the mice makers went to this trouble, but you could). They pretty much work even with other 2.4GHz interference sources (Wifi, microwave oven, Nomadio R/C controllers, etc).
-Dave Haynie
I've had Logitech mice for ages -- going right the way back to my Acorn RiscPC (technically an "Acorn" mouse, but actually made by Logitech)...
My two latest acquisitions were a V450 Nano (with the nano-IR receiver) that I bought to use with my two laptops (I can't stand the Trackpad on my Eee 1000H or the Trackpoint joystick on my Thinkpad) and an LX8 Laser. Seriously, these two track on damn near anything, including the awful glossy desks at university and my varnished pine computer desk at home.
I absolutely love the V450, but I'm very, *very* tempted to get a screwdriver and some superglue and permanently disable the two side buttons on the LX8. Single most annoying mouse feature *ever*. At least you can turn them off in the Setpoint control panel, it's just a shame that said control panel is a 60MB chunk of bloatware...
But eight months on a set of Duracells is still pretty decent. I'd rather that than having to deal with replacing some custom Li-ion pack two or three years down the line (cue: "I'm sorry sir, that product is no longer manufactured and spare parts are no longer available.")
Every Bluetooth device I've used on my Macs has worked well every time. Occasionally the initial device authentication hiccups, but once paired, it's been smooth sailing.
On the other hand, I've tried several Bluetooth devices on our Windows conference room computers (nice for passing the kybd/mouse around to different people when doing group presentations) and have never had a good experience. I don't know what the problem is, but BT just seems to stink on Windoze. I finally ditched all the BT devices and got a proprietary wireless Logitech kybd/mouse pack for the PCs. Works fine now.
I have not tried BT in Linux. I suspect the experience would be somewhere between MacOS and Windoze.
Devices:
Apple BT Mighty Mouse - awesome mouse. The little trackball scroller works fine and does not gum up if you keep a clean workspace (admittedly I have the cleanest desk at work, so I might not be representative of the average bloke).
Apple BT Keybord - it just works. Flawless... But it never worked properly with the Windoze PCs.
Kensington PilotMouse Mini BT. Works great. If you don't like the Apple BT Mighty Mouse, this might be the one for you... traditional 3-button/scroll wheel, good feel.
Final comment: I've never had any wireless input device (BT or otherwise) that did not have some response delay. I guess that's just the nature of the beast.
After talking to several colleagues (we use laptops every day), my conclusion is: - Bluetooth mice use more power - Bluetooth mice sometimes lag or "pause" for a few seconds - USB Wireless has that thinggy that can break when you forget it and toss the laptop into your bag. Since I'm used to having my mouse ALWAYS NEAR my laptop, I've bought a CORD mouse from Microsoft, and it works pretty well and its much cheaper.
I have a regular wireless Revolution mouse, and really love the clickless free-spinning weighted scrollwheel. If the Bluetooth version is really the same thing with a different radio, I suspect I would love that too; it just bothers me that I cannot buy it without the keyboard.
I don't get it, why really cool BT mice are so hard to find.
I'm sorry, but that's not correct - we do have some lovely parting gifts for you, though.
First, there's a configuration management issue.
Second, if the user calls the helpdesk *once* because his mouse battery's dead you've doubled the cost of your mouse.
Last, I'll buy anything for anybody if there's a business need and I won't if there isn't.
Welcome to corporate IT ;-)
we see things not as as they are, but as we are.
-- anais nin
My dad has been a long time fan of Apple and is a proud owner of a Macbook Pro (brand new, March last year). Before that he had a PowerBook G4.
The G4 and the bluetooth Apple mouse he got with it died about the same time. He never really liked the Apple mouse. It felt cheap and clackety and didn't fit his hand right. He does like having that second mouse button.
It was around that time I wanted to buy a present for my dad and looked into getting a mouse that was bluetooth and kinda fit the Mac theme and didn't take up a USB slot. So I got my dad a white V470 bluetooth mouse. It was even advertised in the store as being Mac friendly.
That mouse was horrible. It never gave the correct amount of battery charge and you pretty much couldn't tell if it was turned on or not. I kept swapping out batteries on it and it greatly annoyed my dad who just wanted to get on with his work. I never figured out if it was a fault with the mouse or the Macbook but it never remembered it's pairing. Everytime the Macbook was booted up, the mouse had to be manually paired again as if it was a new mouse. I recommend that no one here ever look twice at a V470. My dad ended up using a cheap little Taiwanese corded mouse with flashy LEDs I got for free from some store offer.
A couple of months later my dad's original Apple Bluetooth Keyboard also died. So we decided to look into getting a wireless combo deal. This time, we didn't try for bluetooth. We looked at RF. We went for the Microsoft Wireless Laser Keyboard 6000 V2.0. It was on a heavily discounted offer price and initially we were just focused on the big chunky mouse.
Turns out to be a really nice product. It's a big full-size keyboard, nice rubbery wrist rest and came with some extra function keys that are perfect for my dad. There's zoom-in and zoom-out buttons on the side that work globally and are especially useful for websites with small writing. No more hunting for the options in Firefox or Safari. The OS also recognized the big pair of volume controls above the function keys making it much easier to change volume.
The chunky mouse is perfect for my dad. My only gripe is that for some reason, the polling or DPI isn't handled correctly and so the mouse pointer moves half the speed it usually does for a given setting. So right now, the pointer speed is maxed out in the system preferences and it's just a tad too slow....but my dad has gotten used to it now. Again, I have no idea if this a fault in the mouse or the Macbook.
I'm currently using this mouse. http://www.targus.com/US/product_details.asp?sku=AMB08US It's got separate buttons, 2d _optical_ scrolling, middle button, and two side buttons. It's quite a nice mouse, about the same size and weight as the Apple Mighty Mouse, and has the advantage of being 5 buttons. The config software it comes with is rubbish and doesn't give you alot of options, I'm using the mouse with Steermouse drivers instead. There's that lag when it wakes up that everybody mentions, but that's about it. I personally don't mind. All in all, it's great, has the horizontal scrolling and I love having lots of buttons.
I write with my right hand, so it made sense to learn to use the mouse in my left hand. (Just watch someone making notes off a screen - repeatedly putting their pen down to use the mouse then pick up the pen again. Not productive.) Works well with standard mice, but newer mice are designed for the right hand. Any recommendations on left-handed mice?
I have used both in the past with little discernible difference in performance for general computing tasks. But here is what my experience has taught me, neither is practical for _my_ needs . In my case I travel with my laptop a lot. When I first decided to go wireless I went with a cheaper proprietary RF mouse, even though my laptop supports bluetooth, because I am a cheap bastard. But after my second snapped dongle, one my fault as I had forgotten it was there when I threw my machine in my bag, and one because someone decided to squeeze by me in a coffee shop and snapped off the usb connector, I decided to go bluetooth. While my logitech bluetooth mouse did have a hefty price premium it has outlasted three laptops and doesn't require a proprietary dongle. My biggest complaint with both solutions was power consumption. In my experience power consumption was a function of implimentation. While my logitech unit is great sitting on a desk going into sleep mode almost before I let go of the mouse, it had no off switch. So if I didn't take the batteries out before throwing it into my bag it was dead in a matter of hours. While one of my RF mice did have an off switch, the sleep mode had a very long delay before kicking in and limited it's overall battery life to about a week. On a semi related tangent. when I worked for a large company management decided to standardize on on vendor/model for wireless keyboards and mice. But the RF model they chose had a limited "key" set so once an office reached critical mass we where inundated with call that started "Help! Someone is taking over my computer. I think we are being hacked." Only to find out that there wireless dongle was just associated with another keyboard and mouse set utilizing the same key. Because of the pairing requirements this should never happen with a bluetooth unit. I solved these problems with two approaches. For my bluetooth mouse I installed an off switch in line with the the positives battery lead. Now my batteries last me a couple of weeks even when traveling and I can still move the mouse to any machine that includes bluetooth. For the RF mouse, the one with the lost usb connector, I cracked the case to one of my old laptops and soldered the dongle to a set of unused usb pins on the mainboard. Now that laptop, currently used by my son, has a dedicated wireless mouse with no risk for dongle damage. In the end it all comes down to personal preference. What are you going to be using it for? How much are you interested in spending? And, what environmental factors would limit your options.
You won't find that many direct comparisons -- and they might not apply to the Mac anyway. Windows (XP at least) has absolutely no bluetooth support whatsoever, and relies entirely on 3rd-party drivers to provide it. So
a) Most PC users probably use the non-bluetooth variety whether they have to or not.
b) Any "Oh it's crap" might be crap drivers, while the hardware is just peachy.
"Wireless Intellimouse Explorer 2.0" ... just doesn't work as smoothly under Vista or Windows-7
I'm so pleased - with the build 7100 the Intellipoint-Magnifier now seems perfect, perhaps even better than with XP.