What To Do With a Free Xbox 360 Pro?

OzPeter writes "Last week I won an Xbox 360 Pro. However, I am not a gamer, and after looking at the current MS offerings, I am not tempted to become one. But I am in the market for a Media Center PC that I can use for streaming TV shows off the 'net as well as general web browsing and displaying video through the HDMI port. With that in mind, I again looked at MS and saw they seemed to have positioned the Xbox as an adjunct to a separate Windows Media Center PC and not as a stand alone unit (which is not what I want). So, once again, I did some more research into the Xbox homebrew scene and discovered things like Xbox Linux. But after reading that site, it is apparent that MS is trying to beat down the homebrewers, and I am left wondering how much hassle it would be to go down that path. So my question is: how should I re-purpose my Xbox? Is it worthwhile doing the Homebrew/Linux option (and can anyone share any experiences)? Are there other ways of re-purposing the device that I haven't considered? Or should I just keep it boxed up as a Christmas present for a favorite nephew?"

Comments

Why bother?

[M0b1u5]

Why let yourself in for a world of hurt for a device which will likely never operate in the way you require.

Best to give it as a gift, or sell it on eBay and pocket the cash, and invest that in your stand alone box.

Frankly, I can't believe you are even contemplating it.

Re:Why bother?

[luther349]

its a hassle. i don't even bother with modding mine being it wasn't until a few weeks ago any homebrew was released for it and its very first modchip all still very early. 360 linux lacks alot good sound 3d support etc. being none really cared abought it until just recently. i would give it away if your not going to use it for gaming. for a media center your looking for i would go with a small form factor pc theirs plenty out there. it would be small enough to set anywhere like inside a entertainment center top that with a wireless keyboard/mouse and a dvi or hdmi cable to your tv and a stereo to rca cable and your good may not need he rca cable if the sound card has rca out. end game you got a full pc connected to your hdtv some hdtv actually just have a vga port so the dvi cable may also not be needed.

Re:Why bother?

[Velorium]

I agree. I would sell it and use the money to buy a media center pc. It's the best option if you're looking to get purpose out of it in this case.

Re:Why bother?

[tlhIngan]

its a hassle. i don't even bother with modding mine being it wasn't until a few weeks ago any homebrew was released for it and its very first modchip all still very early. 360 linux lacks alot good sound 3d support etc. being none really cared abought it until just recently.

The problem with this is just like PS3 Linux. Microsoft and Sony offer a legitimate way to get homebrew on the device - Microsoft with their XNA environment (and a $99/year fee to put your homebrew on your Xbox360 and sell it (yes, Microsoft encourages you to sell your homebrew games - the "Indie Marketplace")). Sony lets people go nuts with the Linux port (until recently - the Slim can't run Linux). Both these measures kept most homebrewers busy actually making homebrew, and leaving any mods to be used for piracy (until recently, the only reason to mod your xbox was for piracy, or "playing backup games").

But if you have an Xbox360 you don't want, give to to charity or sell it. Hack it only for fun - if it doesn't do what you want, and you don't want to invest in hacking it, then you might as well give/sell it to someone who wants it more.

Re:Why bother?

[jasongates]

I agree, just eBay it and use the $$ to build what you really want.

Re:Why bother?

[Nick Ives]

Frankly, I can't believe you are even contemplating it.

The original Xbox remains, once modded, one of the best HTPCs you can get. You guys in the USA even get HD output! Unfortunately that feature was disabled in the European Xbox, but I doubt an Xbox could deal with full 1080p AVC-1 anyway. Still, if you want an SDTV media centre just use an old Xbox, there's nothing better.

I bought an original Xbox many moons ago after going round to a friends house and seeing him running Xbox Media Centre (XBMC), actually playing games on it was a secondary concern. Having said that, being able to install games on the HD was a very nice feature to have back then and I'm glad MS has replicated it with the 360. If they carry on at this rate then they'll catch up with the homebrew version of their last console by the next-next gen ;)

Re:Why bother?

[sexconker]

The original Xbox remains, once modded, one of the best HTPCs you can get.

No it doesn't.
It lacks the horsepower to handle HD content.

XBMC was great, but it's limited by the hardware, and the 360 has thus far not seen a true successor to it.

Re:Why bother?

[Pugwash69]

If you change a PAL XBOX to NTSC it can output 1080i or 720p using component leads. It runs XBMC nicely, but can't handle hi-def video playback. A Pentium 3 just hasn't got the oomph.

Re:Why bother?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can use the xbox in HD in europe. I live in France, i bought the cable from a german reseller on ebay (around 10 euros) and i got the composite cable. XBMC looks great, iÂve the menus at a resolution 720, and when i watch a film it upscales it to 1080.
That cable is worth it, specially if you already have a modded xbox

Re:Why bother?

[jotok]

HD output? Really?
I never poked around very much but for me XBMC only ever produced a bog-standard 480i signal. How did it push 1080p over component cables? Was there an xbox with digital out that I missed?

Re:Why bother?

[GingaNutz]

Posting to undo moderation. Must stop missclicking.

Re:Why bother?

[noundi]

This is pretty much how console development has worked since the beginning of time. Since they're losing money on every console, and they only make a fraction of the games, it makes no sense unless they're making a profit from somewhere else. You're right, more popular games mean more console sales. Each console sale is a loss. That's why you have to pay to develop.

I know, I'm just provoking the thought. The largest marginal actually comes from console accessories. Ever thought why they make special connectors to every new device there is? My brother works at an electronics store which produces their own line of these accessories, and he tells me that even though their brand costs half or one quarter of the "original" price, they still make a hefty sum of revenue. Your first thought might be "well the quality is worse", but I'll tell you two things. First off I know it could be the case in some scenarios, but we're talking about very basic gear, more basic than controllers. Gear such as cables etc, so it's not worse quality in this case. The second thing is, why is it impossible to imagine that they actually do overprice the accessories? As Josh here says, they sell the console at a loss, but this is merely to play on the consumers stupidity, since the console alone is completely useless! At least in theory. You're not allowed to even develop your own work on it without paying a fee. But what's even more fucked up is that this fee is annual. If they would have set the fee to be a difference between loss and profit (sure they are allowed to make profit, this is not what I'm talking about), it would be fair. Better yet, sell the console at a profit to begin with and let the consumer decide what he wants to do with his device. The company goes off with profit and the consumer gets his own way. In the end it's up to the consumers to demand this, but consumers are blind sheep that merely look at the console pricetag and think that this is the required expense and that the rest is just optional.

Re:Why bother?

[Fross]

Try Plex, a XBMC derivative, on Mac. IMHO a better experience than XBMC (and FrontRow for that matter)

Re:Why bother?

[AnotherUsername]

All three major consoles charge to develop.

The Nintendo Wii development kit is $1,700.
The Sony PS3 development kit is $2,000 (non-Linux)
The XBox 360 development kit....$100

Compared to the others, the XBox 360 development kit is a steal. As for not offering anything in return, consider:
1.) Small indie teams can work on a major console without breaking the budget.
2.) The games created by the small indie teams can be hosted on a major console's server, allowing instant access to millions of possible customers.
3.) Small indie teams don't have to be major developers in order to use it (unlike Nintendo).

Depending on the price that the game ends up costing ($5, $3, or $1), given the millions of gamers who are on the marketplace, an indie game studio could somewhat easily recoup that year's losses($100) from having Microsoft host their game by selling anywhere between 20 and 100 copies of their game. If the game is good, they should have little problem. If it stinks, they may have more problems. If no one is buying the game, they will eventually take it off, freeing up the marketplace for others to try selling their games, which may or may not be good.

Also, if you think that the above prices are extreme, consider that licensing the Unreal Engine 3 costs $350,000. And that doesn't come with hosting. Plus, paying 3% royalties on all sales of games made with the engine.

People need to figure out that not everything Microsoft does is horribly horribly evil. They are a company. They do things to make money. They are more evil than some companies, less evil than others. Yes, they have done some pretty shitty things in the past. That doesn't mean that everything they do in the future is done in the name of Satan.

Oh, and before anyone accuses me, no, I don't work for Microsoft. I am just open-minded enough to realize that they are a company, not a church. Business is brutal. Some people can't handle this, and prefer to remain in an idealistic fantasy world. I used to be in that world. I hated everything Microsoft. But then I grew up, and I dealt with reality. And I've been much happier and less stressed than I ever could have been had I remained a die-hard anti-Microsoft zealot.

Re:Why bother?

[noundi]

Fair enough, but you're somehow trying to push the idea that business is business and consumers are to just eat this. That's completely wrong, and by playing the consumer for a fool you can get away with things until the consumer is notified. Look you have to understand the fundamental concept of trading is a tug of war and you're a damn fool of a consumer if you just "accept the idea". In anything that I have the patience for I chose carefully what to purchase, and I don't buy into the idea that a PC which is half as powerful as the PS3 costs twice as much without a reason. The reason being that the PC is a ready to use tool, while the PS3 is an empty shell that the producer sells for a loss, only to later compensate this by overpriced accessories (games, cables, whatever). You see when the near sighted consumer buys that console, without checking what the future expenses might be, in good (stupid) faith, he ends up spending more money than he had planned. In other words that initial good deal was never a good deal to begin with. Only by holding monopoly to the channels and formats can you achieve this, hurting nothing but the consumer. There are many systems that use standards, just look at the PC you have infront of you, I'm referring to other systems than gaming systems, and they are successful for one reason, they are the best money can buy. This pushes development further, raises quality and lowers prices. But you have to understand, I'm not blaming the corporates, they simply seek to take advantage of whatever possible, their end purpose is revenue; that is it. However I do blame the consumers for being so ignorant, and I guess I do it for selfish reasons. You see their choices also affect me, who tries to get something actually worth my money. You provide three choices, Sony, MS and Nintendo, which is fair. But only by not picking one of these is a fourth able to emerge. You are the demand, and if you forget that you have become worse than a zealot, a zombie.

Re:Why bother?

[zav42]

Wait a moment... For 100$ you are not getting the full development kit. This is just the dev system to write managed code. To develop a retail game or even a professional arcade title, devkits are MUCH more expensive last time I checked.

Re:Why bother?

[evan_arrrr!]

You make a good argument, but there are some holes in it.

First of all, the "Xbox 360 Development Kit" you speak of that costs $99, that's just the XNA Community Games dev kit - it's not what the industry uses. The actual dev kit required to make games for the 360 (not XBL Indie Games) runs about the same as the others, somewhere between $1500 and $2000.

Second, you mention the Unreal 3 Engine costing $350k to license and then royalties on top of that - Valve offers the Source engine pretty much for free, and, while somewhat dated at this point, can compete pretty damn well. Not to mention that whenever Episode 3 drops, it'll get another significant update. All this for buying a game at $50 retail.

Re:Why bother?

[Anonymous Coward]

All three major consoles charge to develop.

The Nintendo Wii development kit is $1,700.

The Sony PS3 development kit is $2,000 (non-Linux)

The XBox 360 development kit....$100

Depending on the price that the game ends up costing ($5, $3, or $1), given the millions of gamers who are on the marketplace, an indie game studio could somewhat easily recoup that year's losses($100) from having Microsoft host their game by selling anywhere between 20 and 100 copies of their game. If the game is good, they should have little problem. If it stinks, they may have more problems. If no one is buying the game, they will eventually take it off, freeing up the marketplace for others to try selling their games, which may or may not be good.

You're flatly wrong.

The Xbox 360 development kit is absolutely not $100. You can get a one-year membership to the XNA Creators Club, which allows you to submit games to the Xbox Indie Games service, for $99 USD. The actual development kit associated with this service is free, but you need to pay a $99 fee to actually use the publication channels for a year.

This is NOT a commercial development kit.

Moreover, as it relates to "commercial potential", Xbox Indie Games have been repeatedly grumbled about by prominent authors. The absolute upper cap for the single highest profile Indie Game is 10,000 unit sales. Developers in the price categories that even have a shot at that order of magnitude of sales are taking anywhere from 70 cents to 2.10 for their games. For commercial game production, Xbox Indie Games will NOT be profitable.

Actual commercial Xbox 360 development kits, used to develop Xbox Live Arcade games and Xbox 360 games, cost substantially more.

All of this information is available in a ten second Google tour of the subject. Why was parent modded +5?

Re:Why bother?

[Acer500]

Why let yourself in for a world of hurt for a device which will likely never operate in the way you require.

Best to give it as a gift, or sell it on eBay and pocket the cash, and invest that in your stand alone box.

Amen. Was going to say exactly the same thing :)

Re:Why bother?

[killmenow]

Why was parent modded +5?

Here is the church and here is the steeple. Open the doors and see all the sheeple.

Re:Why bother?

[noundi]

I take it you don't like video games.

That's not what I said. I do enjoy some video games. I don't enjoy the way the are sold, that's a completely different case.

Are you saying that video games aren't worth money?

Video games, like any product, are worth money, but of course at different levels. Just like any other product it's not up to the seller to decide what it's worth, it's up to the buyer. If you read basic economics you'll know what I'm talking about, markets are controlled by buyers and provided by sellers, any markets. The seller may provide a price, preferably for him a price which generates profit, but ultimately it's the buyer that decides if the product is worth the price or not. If the seller refuses to lower the price, and the buyer refuses to purchase the product for said cost the product fails, thus the market is open for a new product, perhaps cheaper to produce with same quality or with the same production cost just with better quality. An overall better product -- that is. This time around the buyer will consider the price fair, or even good, thus we've reached development. In 1 or 5 or 10 years time new products and technologies have emerged leaving this original product to be no longer with the expenses, forcing lowering of the cost (not necessarily a loss since raw material is also purchased by the same principle, if plastic is expensive because there is little competition, leaving one party in control of the market flow, then demand will make it attractive for new producers to emerge -- thus lowering prices). You have to understand that business is about risk, and investors are always out for that sure bet, and you get that sure bet when you produce such technology where you control the market flow. Sure Sony doesn't own the gaming console market, but it owns the market below the Playstation, which means it will reach down into the pockets of anybody ever trading inside this market to grab its toll, for no added value, for the reason that the console was sold at a loss. Plus there's only so many times that excuse holds water, after a while you've paid your dues and you've given Sony their share of the cake, and then some. If consumers understood this basic concept the economy as we know it would fall to its knees, but those that would get hurt the most would be those that have created such artificial demands -- demands that weren't created by the needs of us consumers, but rather artificial scarcity, such as selling two fundamentally equal products, but at different prices with the cheaper being crippled.

Re:Why bother?

[neersign]

i still use my original xbox as my media box with XBMC. The main downside is the slow processor which limits what can be decoded, but there is a pretty good HOWTO in the wiki for tailoring the settings of h.264+ac3 for output on the xbox.

Re:Why bother?

[e2d2]

Paragraphs

Re:Why bother?

[DedTV]

Dump the Xbox 360. Any of the methods for installing Homebrew apps will void your warranty and the Red Ring of Death error is still so common you risk ending up with a useless doorstop at any moment. Plus, it can be finicky about the formats it will play without a hassle. My kids play games on our 360 and we have family Guitar Hero sessions so I do use the 360 with TVersity as a media center as it saves me another box on the shelf. But if you don't have a use for the gaming console part, there's no compelling reason not to go with something more suitable. If you sell it, you can use the cash and get an Apple TV ($230 retail) and load Xbox Media Center on it (the software that made the original Xbox such a great Media Extender) and it will play pretty much anything you can throw at it. Or you can get something like Popcorn Hour C-200, D-Link MediaLounge or any of the numerous other Digital Media Players that are out there which offer better media compatibility and features more suitable to a modern media player then a gaming console.

Re:Why bother?

[drinkypoo]

The problem is that there is no XBMC for Xbox 360. I have my Xbox still hooked up to my 52" Sharp LCD because the Xbox 360 only plays stuff from Windows Media. Your PC has to transcode anything it doesn't have a codec for, which is pretty much restricted to MPEG 1&2 and WMV. More or less any AVI has to be recoded before transmission. In addition, I have two AP/Routers, one is running DD-WRT and is my gateway, another one is hooked up only through switch ports and is just another AP. The Xbox 360 can't see either of the Windows XP systems on this network, or my Windows 7 system, even though the only thing between the hosts is switches, with no firewalling. Windows Media Center Extender support on Xbox 360 is a bad, sad joke, especially compared to XBMC. Then again, my 360 hasn't crashed yet, and just playing a DVD will often crash XBMC (which then plays the DVD correctly after rebooting the Xbox.) Still, XBMC is a much more serious effort than WiMP MCE.

Re:Why bother?

[IamTheRealMike]

That's partly because most indie games aren't that good. Now XBL has a ratings system it'll be easier for the good stuff to float to the top. That said, the expensive part of writing a commercial XBL Arcade or retail game isn't the SDK/dev unit. The expensive part is paying for (and passing) the QA Microsoft put all games through. They test games like crazy which is why console games basically never crash or seriously glitch out.

Re:Why bother?

[iroll]

Color me stupid if I'm missing something, but WTF is the point of installing regular, disk-based 360 games on the HD? You're STILL required to have the disk in if you want to play the game, and when I installed Fallout 3 on my HD I didn't notice any great gains in loading time. I might as well keep that space free for DLC and other downloaded games (full versions of which are starting to appear on the online store).

Re:Why bother?

[kirillian]

However, you have to realize that in the real world right now, buyers don't really control the market. For a number of reasons, buyers in today's markets don't vote with their wallets. They just roll over and take anything that companies give them. Until a critical mass of consumers begin to vote with their wallets again (or become informed decision makers), the rest of us will have to suffer with the greed of corporations along with the uninformed masses. Thus, today's markets are not demand-driven - companies strive to make them supply-driven. On a side note, I think the prevalence of this thinking has been the driving force behind the attitude that we see in so many corporation figureheads that insist that they have a RIGHT to sell their product at a certain price, ignoring market forces.

Companies have figured out that they can lobby the government for support and use laws that are quite obviously paid for by corporate interests to bludgeon their consumers into buying products at certain price levels, artificially inflating market prices (the entertainment industry is as good of a textbook example of this as you can get) and complaining about piracy as soon as customers begin to realize what is happening and try to find other providers in the market (read: piracy).

There are a lot of economics involved that shape the markets, but the biggest difference between the idealistic stencil through which so many are looking at the market and reality is the simple fact that corporations benefit (at least short-term) from a supply-driven economy and consumers benefit from a demand-driven economy...thus, it is ALWAYS in the corporations best short-term interest to try and control the market through supply. So, I doubt corporations are gonna just walk away from their cash cows...it requires us as consumers understanding everything (as you have said) and actually doing something about it (voting with our wallets, so to speak)...

Re:Why bother?

[Panaflex]

In the end it's up to the consumers to demand this, but consumers are blind sheep that merely look at the console pricetag and think that this is the required expense and that the rest is just optional.

When I was a kid (yeah, I know... ages ago) most families only bought a few games - in the area of 2-4 games. In this case, it makes sense to buy the cheapest console.

Re:Why bother?

[noundi]

Now you see we're on the same side here. Let me show you:

However, you have to realize that in the real world right now, buyers don't really control the market.

My whole post said this exact same sentence, the difference is that I only elaborated it to the fact that consumers (buyers) still have the potential of doing so, and it's our choice. If we choose to be controlled by the seller, then like the idiots we are, we're going to be. But if we wake up and realise that we decide what the market is, since our actions form it, things will be different.

There are a lot of economics involved that shape the markets, but the biggest difference between the idealistic stencil through which so many are looking at the market and reality is the simple fact that corporations benefit (at least short-term) from a supply-driven economy and consumers benefit from a demand-driven economy...thus, it is ALWAYS in the corporations best short-term interest to try and control the market through supply. So, I doubt corporations are gonna just walk away from their cash cows...it requires us as consumers understanding everything (as you have said) and actually doing something about it (voting with our wallets, so to speak)...

You're completely right! This is my point exactly! I'm stating that corporations aren't to blame for this development, it's the gullible sheep that are:

But you have to understand, I'm not blaming the corporates, they simply seek to take advantage of whatever possible, their end purpose is revenue; that is it. However I do blame the consumers for being so ignorant, and I guess I do it for selfish reasons. You see their choices also affect me, who tries to get something actually worth my money. You provide three choices, Sony, MS and Nintendo, which is fair. But only by not picking one of these is a fourth able to emerge. You are the demand, and if you forget that you have become worse than a zealot, a zombie.

Re:Why bother?

[kirillian]

Well...my bad...I kinda got the idea that you were tending towards my conclusion. Maybe I'm just tired or something, but I kinda saw your post that I replied to as just talking about demand-driven economics rather than actually explaining the problem...maybe part of it is the fact, that I didn't even see this portion of your post on the article homepage:

But you have to understand, I'm not blaming the corporates, they simply seek to take advantage of whatever possible, their end purpose is revenue; that is it. However I do blame the consumers for being so ignorant, and I guess I do it for selfish reasons. You see their choices also affect me, who tries to get something actually worth my money. You provide three choices, Sony, MS and Nintendo, which is fair. But only by not picking one of these is a fourth able to emerge. You are the demand, and if you forget that you have become worse than a zealot, a zombie.

my apologies for the misunderstanding

Re:Why bother?

[fyrie]

The last XBox live update addressed a performance issue with some "installed" games. It still checked the disc often for DRM reasons, slowing everything down. You may want to uninstall / reinstall and see if anything changes. It may or may not.

Re:Why bother?

[thedrunkensailor]

Oh, and before anyone accuses me, no, I don't work for Microsoft. I am just open-minded enough to realize that they are a company, not a church. .

good point - churches rob us blind

Re:Why bother?

[Blakey Rat]

You can write a Live Arcade game with the $100 kit. The point of the Marketplace is that games can be "promoted" to Live Arcade if they are successful enough-- I'm not sure how many games this has happened with.

As far as commercial titles, nothing Microsoft does really *excludes* the $100 API, but you do have to get your game reviewed by Microsoft's quality control people, which costs far more than $100. (And possibly several times, if you fail the first time.) Of course if you do buy a physical dev kit, you can code in non-managed languages if you want, and you get much deeper debugging tools as well.

Re:Why bother?

[steppin_razor_LA]

As you said, the original xbox w/ XBMC was IMHO the best (or perhaps one of the best) options for a HTPC. Unfortunately, the original xbox really can only deal with SD content. I was able to get *some* 720P content working, but the Pentium Celeron processor just doesn't have the oomph for HD.

I've been running the Windows port of XBMC (MediaPortal) http://www.team-mediaportal.com/ on a computer hooked up to my TV w/ mixed results.

Re:Why bother?

[XDirtypunkX]

Download the content add-in for the 360 (you can find it on the market-place, it's free). It allows you to stream DivX/XviD and MP4. You still have to live with the media player library though, unless you use TVersity.

Re:Why bother?

[Cornflake917]

This is NOT a commercial development kit.

This toolkit allows you to create and sell games on XBox Live. How is this not commercial?

The absolute upper cap for the single highest profile Indie Game is 10,000 unit sales.

Absolute? Hardly. Not all developers are reporting how much units they have sold. Even so, there are a few developers that have reported significantly higher numbers than 10,000.

For commercial game production, Xbox Indie Games will NOT be profitable.

If you are making games on your free time, any dollar you make is profit. Also, keep in mind that many developers are releasing more than one game. Some have developers have already released about a dozen. So even if there is a cap on how much a game makes, doesn't mean a developer is limited to that amount of revenue.

Re:Why bother?

[artemis67]

A friend of mine tried setting up a Media Center PC with the 360 to view content.

First off, just having the 360 ON is incredibly annoying -- the fans are so freaking loud. At least in a game, you're totally immersed in it so you forget about it. But, for just watching TV? Nope, it's just a lot of white noise you don't need

Second, going with all-Microsoft software is going to limit your choices, because of corporate choices regarding DRM and such.

My friend has an old XBox that he software-modded with XBMC, and of the three devices, XBMC is the one that gets all of the use.

The main thing the 360 is good for is playing games; anything else it does is a DISTANT second. If you aren't going to use it for gaming, give it away as a present or sell it on eBay.

Re:Why bother?

[iroll]

But I'll still have to have the disk in to play the game, right? I'm thinking that if I still have to get up, dig around for a disk, switch disks, etc., I'm not really saving myself any time by installing to my HD. Maybe the loading screens are a little faster, but it's not going to fix framerate issues during big fights or anything.

It still seems like a feature without a purpose. The whole reason for doing "disk installs" on a modded console is so that you can have all of your games instantly playable, without switching disks.

Re:Why bother?

[mollog]

Paragraphs; use

<p> or <br><br>

at the end of a paragraph. It's a pain, but it's what you have to do to format your text in a way that's readable.

Re:Why bother?

[Disgruntled Goats]

I know, I'm just provoking the thought

Except your bias has led you to single handedly chastise Microsoft for a practice that every console maker has done for the last 20+ years. This is hardly a practice Microsoft started and at only 100 dollars it is by far the cheapest modern platform to develop for.

Re:Why bother?

[tsalaroth]

With the first update that allowed installing games, I noticed a bit of a performance increase with Fable 2. With the latest updates that fixed some issues, it's a significant increase. Granted, I'm on a 360 Elite, which I understand may or may not have some minor hardware differences (I can't confirm this as most gaming sites are blocked here at work).

I will also note that Halo 3 specifically tells you to NOT install it on the hard drive as the progressive load features are optimized specifically for the game disc.

Re:Why bother?

[Nick Ives]

The HD install option is actually the best way to prevent RROD. The spinning of the disk generates heat so removing that means that your console is less likely to die, it's also quieter.

I've also noticed that it makes all games run more consistently. GTA4, for example, tends to stutter after about 3 to 4hrs of continuous play for me when running from disc whereas I experience no such problem whilst installed to the HD. It's just a guess, but I think it might be down to the CPU or GPU having thermal throttling, so less heat means it's free to run at full speed.

Re:Why bother?

[Nick Ives]

It lacks the horsepower to handle HD content.

I said:

I doubt an Xbox could deal with full 1080p AVC-1 anyway. [...] if you want an SDTV media centre just use an old Xbox

Re:Why bother?

[AugstWest]

I loved XBMC on my original XBox, and still run it in the playroom. Now that it's been ported everywhere, I just installed it on the server that runs in the basement (and is full of all my big hard drives), and ran an HDMI cable up through the floor to the LCD TV in the living room.

I had an "old" gyro mouse and keyboard set in the basement (thanks woot!), and that was it, I was done. Full XBMC experience, a great HTPC with no fans spinning in the living room, and all of my downloaded video content available without transcoding.

I've tried Plex on the Mac, and Boxee on both Mac and Linux, and I still screw around with other HTPC software, but nothing can touch XBMC imho.

There's a project underway right now to bring Webkit to XBMC, at which point even Hulu and Pandora will be available. Of course, they already are through a browser, since you basically have a whole Linux box displayed on your living room wall, but doing it all in a single app rocks.

Re:Why bother?

[agm1101]

Buy Playon software ($40, but on sale frequently for $20 or $30) and install in on your windows PC. You can stream all kinds of video sites to your xbox 360 including youtube, hulu, etc. They have a 14 day trial for you to check out if it works for you.

Well,

[Shadyman]

I like the 'giveittome' tag.

Though, Xbox Linux is probably the way to go if you want that kind of thing.

Sell it

[MichaelSmith]

Its worth less to you than somebody who would use it for gaming.

Re:Sell it

[jollyreaper]

Agreed. I'm a moderate gamer and have a mac mini and a 360 under my tv. The 360 can do some video streaming from XP computers with media player 11 or Vista boxes but it's a pain in the butt. There's products like tversity that can do transcoding but it's so much more hassle than it's worth it's not even funny.

The short answer: the 360 has the hardware to be a great media center but Microsoft does not want to allow the hardware freedom for that to happen. No custom boot loader, no unsigned code, nothing. Use a purpose-built box for your media center, you will be so much happier. The 360 is only good for games and console games at that. People into games that only really exist on the PC will scoff at the consoles.

Re:Sell it

[bigstrat2003]

The 360 can do some video streaming from XP computers with media player 11 or Vista boxes but it's a pain in the butt. There's products like tversity that can do transcoding but it's so much more hassle than it's worth it's not even funny.

What?! Streaming video files from your PC to your 360 is dead easy. Is the format DivX/XviD (most files)? Plays with no modification right from the dashboard. If not, set up the media center (can be a bit of a pain, but hardly the epic pain in the ass you claim), install Transcode 360 on your PC, select file, select the Transcode option, done.

If that's considered hard (where the majority of files play seamlessly, and the rest require only slightly more work), I want to know what the heck easy is. That must be something like "the device picks which files to play for me, and plays them without my intervention".

Re:Sell it

[skaet]

I agree. Streaming network content to the xbox 360 is the easiest media centre I have ever had the pleasure to work with. I also happen to be one of the lucky ones who has bought 2 xbox 360s and never had either of them RROD in 2.5 years.

While the media centre offerings on XP can be a hassle to set up - Vista is only slightly less time consuming - the Win 7 setup is by far the easiest and fastest, even compared with 3rd party options like TVersity. With the appropriate codecs installed, simply add the folder to the Videos libraries and in Media Player click "Stream -> More streaming options...". Give permission for the 360 to access your PCs media library, wait for Media Player to index the files, then navigate to the video library on the 360. A list of network devices with media streaming capabilities will appear after a few seconds and simply follow the folder structure to access the file you want to watch.

While it doesn't allow you to stream internet media, the Netflix service is available for U.S. residents. TVersity will also allow you to subscribe to internet video feeds if local network content is not enough. I am using my desktop PC and a WD My Book World NAS (which natively supports media streaming via PVConnect [TwonkyMedia] and automatically shows up under the xbox video library device list) to download and feed all my music and video, respectively. Any sufficient network should be able to support all types of media, even using the xbox wireless adapter (802.11g) has enough bandwidth to stream 720p HDTV x264 content without waiting to buffer.

For my needs, this setup fits perfectly. Obviously OzPeter has a much narrow focus for what he wants to do but if others have similar requirements as myself then I can't recommend this enough. I never thought we would see the day when a Microsoft product would "just work" but kudos to them for coming this far.

Re:Sell it

[bloobloo]

Not so easy if you have a NAS with your media files on it. I have to copy from there into my documents, then stream to the xbox360.

Re:Sell it

[gaggle]

Easy means you don't have to ever wonder if this file needs the PC turned on, it means not having to keep yet another program uptodate when updates come out, and it means not having to do any of the tiny little steps you're forgetting to tell us. You sound like a poweruser though so to you it seems really easy, but for those who just want the easiest solution it's not good enough. Easy is buying a movie off of iTunes and it always plays when clicking Play. Always. The first time it doesn't, for practically any reason at all, it starts becoming a burden.

Re:Sell it

[Holi]

I personally use Playon Media Server at my house so I can stream Hulu to my TV, it works pretty well for Hulu and Netflix

Shit I sound like a damn ad

eBay it (or otherwise)

[Macthorpe]

Sell it as new and put the money towards something that's built for the purpose you want it for. Bit easier than spending hours messing about with it.

Re:eBay it (or otherwise)

[Macthorpe]

You're not really fixing anything, are you? What you wrote is at best orthoganal to the real point and adds nothing more than a bad attempt at trolling to the discussion.

Grade: D-
Notes: See me after class

(The sooner this fucking stupid 'LOL FIXED THAT FOR YOU' meme ends the better, sorry)

Re:eBay it (or otherwise)

[rayd75]

That is freakin' hilarious! See what he did there? He changed the original comment's entire meaning by altering only a few words... then he humorously passes it off as if he had done nothing more than correct a typo. Brilliant!

Re:eBay it (or otherwise)

[Tynin]

(The sooner this fucking stupid 'LOL FIXED THAT FOR YOU' meme ends the better, sorry)

I see you are new here... ;)

Re:eBay it (or otherwise)

[Barny]

Git offa mah lawn!

Re:eBay it (or otherwise)

[ag0ny]

Git offa mah lawn!

YOU get off my lawn, 6-digit youngster!

(4-digit post in 4... 3... 2... 1...)

Re:eBay it (or otherwise)

[Ihmhi]

Mommy, why are those old guys fighting on the lawn in their underwear?

Re:eBay it (or otherwise)

[LinuxGeek]

You rang? And to be slightly helpful, he could trade the xbox for an older PS3 fat model that can run linux. It actually runs ubuntu fairly well.

Re:eBay it (or otherwise)

[Garion911]

Dangnabit, I don't quite meet your 4 digit, but I still want you off my lawn.

Re:eBay it (or otherwise)

[mcrbids]

Not 4 digits, but not born yesterday, either...

Re:eBay it (or otherwise)

[Barny]

/me waits for rob to come on and tell us all off for messing up his blog.

Wishing I had of made an account when I first started viewing the site, didn't see a point back then (2-3 digit UID) and by the time I wanted to make a contribution 6 digit UID :/

Oh well, guess a 3 digit UID will be posting here shortly, I won't hold you up.

Re:eBay it (or otherwise)

[Merls the Sneaky]

no it's one better /. AC's have the UID of 666.

Re:eBay it (or otherwise)

[Anonymous Coward]

You really fixed it good, thanks! What you wrote is dead on and to the point and adds substantively to the discussion.

Grade: A

Notes: Rock on!

(The sooner this fucking awesome 'LOL FIXED THAT FOR YOU' meme takes over the internet, the better)

There, fixed that for you.

Re:eBay it (or otherwise)

[dhall]

To be honest the newer ps3 slim is much more quiet than the older model, and it's a better "media station" for the purposes of streaming video from a windows machine, or just copying avi files from a DVD to the hard drive.

I think of the 360 as a gaming machine (due to the number of games) trying to be a media station, while the ps3 is a media station that tries to play games. The controls for watching videos in the ps3 are a lot nicer than the xbox.

Re:eBay it (or otherwise)

[PhilHibbs]

One of these days there'll be a "Get in the coffin you 7-figure granddad" meme, so enjoy it while you can.

Re:eBay it (or otherwise)

[whoop]

Ah thanks. I was waiting for the right moment to jump in.

Now, what's this ex-box you youngsters keep talkin bout? What was it changed into? Back in my day, we had cardboard boxes, and we loved 'em!

Re:eBay it (or otherwise)

[Hatta]

You know, XBMC has been ported to Linux. I wonder how well XBMC would run on Linux on a PS3. It would be amusing at least.

Re:eBay it (or otherwise)

[Odin's Raven]

Mommy, why are those old guys fighting on the lawn in their underwear?

Because fighting totally starkers would be against the law. Now quit asking silly questions and help me aim this firehose at them.

Re:eBay it (or otherwise)

[Barny]

Cardboard box?

LUXURY!

We used to live in a rolled up newspaper in a septic tank!

Re:eBay it (or otherwise)

[Macthorpe]

Oh, to be young and pedantic :) Think of it in terms of "going off on a tangent". In this case, the tangent is in fact perpendicular to the original line of thought. Simple!

Re:eBay it (or otherwise)

[BikeHelmet]

I agree. Sell it and pick up an Asus O!Play or Western Digital WDTV. Just plug in an HDD and you can use either as a NAS and to play back videos.

They're sub-$100, and support all the common formats; I definitely wouldn't try to hack that 360 into an HTPC.

Favorite nephew

[onyxruby]

Offer it as a bribe, perhaps if he does well in school or the like. It sounds like you already have made up your mind about the product not meeting your needs. Certainly things like the linux project would be at best pure hack value, and not much for practical use. If you want to do that, find the right ps3 and relish in a vendor that doesn't actively fight alternate os's and lets you install Linux without all the hassle.

Re:Favorite nephew

[EdIII]

find the right ps3 and relish in a vendor that doesn't actively fight alternate os's and lets you install Linux without all the hassle.

Last I heard, that premise is patently false or as I like to put it, complete fucking bullshit.

Sony does actively fight to prevent anyone from having complete control of the hardware they rightfully own. PSP is the perfect example of this.

When Sony allows you to install Linux AND have complete access to all the hardware, let me know, and I will agree with your statements. Right now, you can install Linux. Yes, that is true. Do you really have access to all the hardware though? Yeah.... you don't.

Sure you can borrow my car and mess with all the radio station presets. Tires? Well, of course not! Don't be silly. I'll keep those at home.

Re:Favorite nephew

[snuf23]

It's worth noting that the PS3 Slim doesn't support Linux either. So if you want your relish you'd have to buy the older model.

Re:Favorite nephew

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

as of Firmware 3.1, I can still install Linux on my big and bulky PS3.

Yes, Sony is fighting to prevent people to completely control their PSP and PS3, why? Online cheating, piracy, etc. It's not like they're keeping you out of the sacred land of home brew for really no good reason.

(it's working too, I'm thinking about either buying a spare PSP *just* for games that want FWs above 5.00(I haven't installed 5.50 GEN yet) or ditching CFW entirely. Gran Turismo Portable, you damned temptress.)

Re:Favorite nephew

[EdIII]

really no good reason

It is not a good reason. It is not ethical, moral, legal, etc. Sony does not rent me a PSP or PS3, they sell me one. I have had these arguments before, and quite simply, it is corruption in our legal system that allows them to continue.

The DMCA is absolute fucking bullshit. I have the absolute unequivocal right to completely own my hardware. To use a car analogy on Slashdot, there have been cases similar to this with auto manufacturers. All of the cases had been decided in the favor of the consumer. So why is electronics any different? They brought copyright infringement into it.

Without the DMCA it would be absolutely legal for you to put whatever you wanted onto a PSP or PS3 and Sony would have absolutely no recourse at all. However, since they used those cock-sucking whores in Congress to create a law that states my perfectly moral and ethical enjoyment of my own property circumvents Sony's bullshit, that I am somehow a criminal.

Last time I checked we can still own guns in this country. Well, by Sony's logic, they can take away my guns since it could possibly be used for something bad. That logic does not work, and thankfully, has not worked yet to deprive me of my right to bear arms.

This fallacious logic that is being used to deprive citizens of their rights and properties has to be fought at all costs. It has to stop.

Let me put in another way. I brutally raped some young girl because I was horny. "It's not like I did not do it for really no good reason"

Re:Favorite nephew

[NeoOokami]

On top of that, given that the new model PS3s don't allow linux at all, this seems particularly laughable. Apparently the hardware change was too radical to keep Linux installed but the rest of their software doesn't skip a beat? Sure....

Re:Favorite nephew

[Cryacin]

Last time I checked we can still own guns in this country. Well, by Sony's logic, they can take away my guns since it could possibly be used for something bad. That logic does not work, and thankfully, has not worked yet to deprive me of my right to bear arms.

I live in Australia. In the 90's some loon named Martin Bryant went ballistic with a few guns and shot up a bunch of people in Port Arthur Tasmania. Our illustrious Gruppenfuerer John Howard took it upon himself to ban "semi-automatic" rifles. Unfortuantely for us, he slipped a mickey and made it very very difficult to even own a .22 bolt action.

Sadly, over here that thought already holds true...

Re:Favorite nephew

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Christ. You talk about fallacious logic but you really run face first into some of your own(the whole bit about Sony taking guns away should be enshrined as a shining example of what an improper analogy is, for instance).

I said that Sony does have good reasons why they would lock down a console like the PSP or the PS3 to keep out cheating and piracy. No where did I mention the DMCA.

Sony doesn't care whether or not YOU go through the hoops to tinker with your PSP. Just don't expect bug fixes, new firmware updates, warranty, etc. Your PSP as sold, is YOURS. Their update software is THEIRS.

Is Sony coming to your house to take your modded PSP? No. Sony isn't even serving C&Ds or DMCA take down notices to the GEN team or Dark Alex, or anyone who's hosing the files necessary to get CFW working. They're just doing the libertarian thing and setting rules on what happens when you install their new firmware, and what firmwares go out when they ship consoles out of their factories(hint: Google GEN-B 5.50 PSP).

To use a proper gun ownership analogy with Sony, Sony is saying, "Do you want to own a gun? Great. Don't bring it into my place of business." You forget that when you play online, you're playing on their infrastructure, or the infrastructure of who ever's providing the online servers. You're also playing against other people and you cheating ruins their experience with Sony's product. Much like how business owners can throw you out of their place of business for bringing a gun into their domain, Sony is locking down Firmware updates and new consoles sold in stores.

Re:Favorite nephew

[EdIII]

Christ. You talk about fallacious logic but you really run face first into some of your own(the whole bit about Sony taking guns away should be enshrined as a shining example of what an improper analogy is, for instance).

You say it is fallacious because you are twisting what they have done to suit your argument, flat out ignoring it, are just can't figure it out.

I said that Sony does have good reasons why they would lock down a console like the PSP or the PS3 to keep out cheating and piracy. No where did I mention the DMCA.

The DMCA is an integral component of the overall problem and you cannot begin tho discuss the situation without it.

Let me make this perfectly CLEAR. There are no good reasons why Sony can deprive me of my rightful enjoyment of my property. Ever.

Your PSP as sold, is YOURS. Their update software is THEIRS.

That would be perfectly fine if Sony was not deliberately obstructing you from running your own software. Which they are. Their arguments against you doing so use blanket statements that are effectively, "Homebrew and custom software can only be used piracy". That is where the DMCA comes in the picture. Only through the DCMA can they state the otherwise perfectly legal, moral, and ethical act of replacing the software is illegal. To be precise, it is not the installation of the custom software, but the removal of theirs which constitutes a violation of the DMCA.

That is why you cannot discuss free ownership of electronic property without the DMCA. The DMCA is used to effectively rob you of that, since there does not exist any other legal vehicle to do so. Much less, a moral or ethical one.

To use a proper gun ownership analogy with Sony, Sony is saying, "Do you want to own a gun? Great. Don't bring it into my place of business." You forget that when you play online, you're playing on their infrastructure, or the infrastructure of who ever's providing the online servers. You're also playing against other people and you cheating ruins their experience with Sony's product. Much like how business owners can throw you out of their place of business for bringing a gun into their domain, Sony is locking down Firmware updates and new consoles sold in stores.

I was never even talking about that at all. The PSP and PS3 are still mine. I can run whatever software I damn well please on it. However, you are right. When I want to connect up to Sony's property (their infrastructure, their servers, their games, etc.) I must abide by agreement between us. Part of which, is that I run their software and not mine. Personally, I elect to run my own software and not connect to their servers.

We can agree on that, and it was never in dispute, and was never a matter for discussion.

Now if you like to attack my analogies, how about this one:

Sony is selling me a blue car. I want to paint it green. If I do so, I cannot drive it on to Sony's property. Sony also takes the step of making sure that the removal of blue paint is a crime.

Sony doesn't care whether or not YOU go through the hoops to tinker with your PSP-------Is Sony coming to your house to take your modded PSP? No. Sony isn't even serving C&Ds or DMCA take down notices to the GEN team or Dark Alex, or anyone who's hosing the files necessary to get CFW working. They're just doing the libertarian thing and setting rules on what happens when you install their new firmware, and what firmwares go out when they ship consoles out of their factories(hint: Google GEN-B 5.50 PSP).

Wrong. They do care. Otherwise, they would not be working so hard to obstruct my ability to remove their software. We both know they work VERY hard at doing just that.

lock down a console like the PSP or the PS3 to keep out cheating and piracy.

Re:Favorite nephew

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

My analogies are perfect. Sony is preventing me from having full unfettered access to my system so that I can use it without their control and software. That it is not something I am making up. Your "good" reasons are anything but.

Saying Sony will take your guns away was stupid. Really. really. stupid.

I'm not sure if you're an idiot or a troll or whatever. If you're not a troll, then I hope in good faith you understand the next following statements. Sony is in business to sell games and consoles and make money, not general purpose computing machines.

It's no shock to anyone when you, or some other OSS, or Free Software or whatever movement zealot screams this. They lock down their games console so that way some schmuck with a HDD to USB adapter couldn't just dump games to the hard drive, and run them with out paying for it. This would hurt their business, severely. Why would they ever expose themselves to that kind of risk?

Many consumers also recognize the fact that while some devices do have similarities to general purpose computers, they also recognize the fact that why someone would pigeon hole such a device towards one task and set their expectations accordingly, and in many cases, accept it and purchase a machine. Some don't. Sony is not forcing you to purchase a PS3. This is not a totalitarian regime with forced consumption.

The DMCA is obviously at issue here because there would be no way on God's Green Earth they could stop me without it. Once again, not by the use and installation of my own software, but by the removal of theirs. You act like I can just choose not to use their software freely and without hindrance. That is a damnable lie.

The DMCA is not an issue here. When has Sony ever issued a DMCA notice to Dark AleX or the GEN team or anyone else in the PSP hacking community? This is why I'm pretty sure you're a troll, or some sort of blind crazy zealot.

How are they stopping you? By implementing a DRM scheme that activates when reading EBOOT.PBP files off of the memorystick and chosing not to run software that doesn't validate. That's how. Not DMCA take down notices, or other legal threats. Using technical means, not legal ones. Shut up about the DMCA already. It is a red herring.

Christ I feel like I just wrote an article for simple.wikipedia.org

Re:Favorite nephew

[EdIII]

Saying Sony will take your guns away was stupid. Really. really. stupid.

Thinking that is what I said, was really really really stupid. What I said was their logic is that because I might use software other than theirs (since theirs has DRM), it also might be used for piracy. Of course their executives use stronger language than that which is really closer to "will use it for piracy", but that does not matter.

Where it is similar to anti-gun laws is that the premise is similar. We must take away guns because of what you could do with it. Well, Sony is saying they must prevent you from running custom software because you could use it to effect piracy.

That's hardly stupid. You just want to make it sound like I am a nut acting like the Gubbermint is out take my guns away. Same thing anti-gun law proponents do as well.

What I said was, the logic is the same behind both arguments. Specifically, that of denying your existing rights because of the possibilities.

I'm not sure if you're an idiot or a troll or whatever.

I was thinking the same thing about you.

Sony is in business to sell games and consoles and make money, not general purpose computing machines.

That hardly matters. Sony is selling something that can be used as a general purpose computing machine. Whether they intended it or not, is not relevant or a cause for any kind of action against the consumer to prevent it.

You like my analogies, so here is another one:

Sony is selling you an Apple. They intend for it to be used in Apple Pies. I use it to make a Candied Apple.

It's no shock to anyone when you, or some other OSS, or Free Software or whatever movement zealot screams this.

Now you are attacking the OSS and Free Software community? Who sounds like a zealot?

I mention it because it is a current example of what is being used. What if a private company releases a proprietary, closed source, PSP operating system? What then?

The open source communities have nothing to do with this and you just started your own little episode of trolling. I am not a zealot simply because I am fighting for my rights. I guess all those civil rights activists were labeled as zealots too?

Your statement clearly demonstrates some animosity towards them, and I never explicitly claimed membership in that group in the first place.

They lock down their games console so that way some schmuck with a HDD to USB adapter couldn't just dump games to the hard drive, and run them with out paying for it. This would hurt their business, severely. Why would they ever expose themselves to that kind of risk?

Schmuck's? Hardly. It is the "schmuck's" right to do so in the first place. It does not matter whether or not it would hurt Sony severely. They just simply don't have the moral and ethical standing to lock down their hardware based on a possibility. It assumes all people are criminals first, good citizens later.

I mentioned the auto industry before. This has played out, and is currently playing out in that industry as well. It has been decided by the courts that these companies do not have the right to restrict your actions with your property regardless of whether or not it severely hurts their business. Once the transaction is completed the automobile is no longer owned by auto industry, but by the consumer and the courts have upheld and recognized the consumer's absolute right to their property.

You are making the same arguments protecting and defending Sony's actions while refusing to acknowledge that Sony does not have an ethical or moral foundation in which to do so.

Many consumers also recognize the fact that while some devices do have similarities to general purpose computers, they also recognize the fact that why someone would pigeon h

Re:Favorite nephew

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

What I said was, the logic is the same behind both arguments. Specifically, that of denying your existing rights because of the possibilities.

What I'm saying is that the analogy is highly FLAWED.

That hardly matters. Sony is selling something that can be used as a general purpose computing machine. Whether they intended it or not, is not relevant or a cause for any kind of action against the consumer to prevent it.

This does matter. They're selling you a hardware/software bundle that's specifically designed to play games. Some cars have built in limiters in them for speed. Not because they're trying to make you obey the speed limit, most kick in well above 100(on some SUVs it's well below 100 and often within the highway speed limits), but rather, they can't verify how stable the car will be above that. If you want to go that fast, it's on YOU to modify YOUR property.

Sony is selling you an Apple. They intend for it to be used in Apple Pies. I use it to make a Candied Apple.

There's no liability for them to be consumed any other way, even if there was, there's no mechanism they can use to require that. This is another flawed analogy.

What is an issue is that I am labeled a criminal and interfered with when I decide to purchase a PS3 or PSP and use it in a manner that Sony does not like.

You are only labeled a criminal when you share that information with others and conspire to continually defeat the copy protection methods used to lock down the console. I'm not saying that's a good idea either, but that is the DMCA(the same DMCA Sony hasn't used to try to squash home brew, only continual firmware updates breaking the home brew enabling methods).

Completely. Fallacious. Logic.

So name that fallacy.

It does not matter if I figure out a possible use for a device before or after I purchase it. The motivations of the manufacturers are irrelevant as well, including whether or not I understand or agree to their stated intentions of the device's use. The simple fact is that I can purchase these devices for any reason I want to and the manufacturer can produce and sell them for any reason they want to.

Which is why they lock them down at the factory instead of handing you a blank PS3 with no firmware loaded. They sold you a games console. You knew this when you purchased it. If you want to use it as a PC, you have to do it, not Sony. Besides, if Sony DID do that, do you know what kind of support nightmare that would be? Do you understand the practical problems here?

Well bring out the rootkit scandal and you can see that Sony is also a criminal awaiting justice.

They have, in many states as well as in various legal battles.

Can we now be done with the whole XCP bullshit? Seriously. Ford put out cars with tires that they knew to be substandard for the vehicle they sold that could potentially *kill* people and Ford doesn't get the kind of vitriol that Sony does.

I have never heard such an ignorant statement in my life either. The DRM scheme is protected by the DMCA. They don't use the DMCA since all they need to do is to issue a gazillion software updates a year effectively requiring them to play the games. It's a technical solution since the legal solution won't work and is too costly.

Emphasis added.

Which is why they're doing what they do.

You don't have the right to use your hardware out of the box the way you want to. You don't. I want my a roomba to also fetch my paper. It's not designed for this purposes, so it's on me to modify and make my devices do what I want. I'm not arguing that the DMCA is right and just, and that you shouldn't ever install CFW. I'm arguing if you want this capability, install CFW(Hell, *I* did. I'm the one arguing *for* Sony). I don't like Finder on OS X. Apple is under no obligation to make it easy to remove or replace. It is possible, but they're under no obligation to do so.

Re:Favorite nephew

[triffid_98]

And by that very same logic Sony should be banned from releasing anything on a CD, because they've already proved they just can't handle the temptation...

Last time I checked we can still own guns in this country. Well, by Sony's logic, they can take away my guns since it could possibly be used for something bad. That logic does not work, and thankfully, has not worked yet to deprive me of my right to bear arms.

Re:Favorite nephew

[EdIII]

What I'm saying is that the analogy is highly FLAWED.

In what Universe? The analogy is perfect. In both instances the rights to own and use the property are diminished because of the possible uses of the property. That is flawed and well outside of the established norms for our society. We don't make it a habit to legislate, or uphold laws, where they are based on the mere possibility of an object or a device being used to commit a crime. We legislate consequences for actions. Not consequences for possibilities.

Otherwise, just about anything could become illegal.

The premise behind both of these situations is the same. If that is true, then the analogy is correct, and cannot be flawed.

In order for you to successfully argue that the analogy is flawed you need to do one of the following:

1) Argue that anti-gun laws are not being pursued because of the possible uses of guns.

2) Argue that Sony DRM is not about stopping piracy, which is only a possible use of custom firmware, not an intrinsic one.

This does matter. They're selling you a hardware/software bundle that's specifically designed to play games. Some cars have built in limiters in them for speed. Not because they're trying to make you obey the speed limit, most kick in well above 100(on some SUVs it's well below 100 and often within the highway speed limits), but rather, they can't verify how stable the car will be above that. If you want to go that fast, it's on YOU to modify YOUR property.

You're wrong. It does not lead to any valid or logical reasoning to prevent me from doing anything with property I rightfully own. The understanding or sophistication of the consumer is as irrelevant as the intentions, stated or otherwise of the manufacturer.

I can buy any object and use it for any legal purpose. The fact that 99% of all people might use an object for one purpose, and assume before purchasing that this is what the object is intended for, cannot be used to construct a valid reason to restrict my use of the object.

You want to keep coming back to the fact that I don't have to buy a PSP/PS3 in the first place. Well, what is also equally true, is that I am under no obligations to use it for it's intended purpose either. Which, by the way, is legally, morally, and ethically protected behavior. In fact, some of the more interesting inventions in the last 100 years have come from unintended uses of rather common products.

There is no enforceable contract, no implied social contract, that can prevent me from using it in any way I see fit. The only exception that has ever been legally upheld is when ownership of the property in question is not transferred at all, but a lease/rental contract is created to allow for it's use.

You want to say that not only is it valid reasoning, but it is a legal, moral, and ethical basis by which Sony can restrict the use of my rightfully owned property. It isn't.

I suggest as an experiment you try selling ears of corn stating it can only be used to make creamed corn and then try to enforce your "rights" on your customers. It's just ludicrous on the face of it. The fact you cannot see it simply means to me you refuse to see it or blindly push forward to further your ridiculous argument that actions regarding property can be enforced by intentions, advertising, and the understandings of the consumer during purchase.

There's no liability for them to be consumed any other way, even if there was, there's no mechanism they can use to require that. This is another flawed analogy.

No liability? I have never stated that Sony is responsible for what I decide to do with my property. Their liability is limited to basically manufacturing defects or dangerous design flaws.

There shouldn't be a mechanism by which Sony can restrict my use of the apple's to be used in apple pie. However, there is. The DMCA. To further the

Re:Favorite nephew

[Cryacin]

Yes, a country without guns... That most be HORRIBLE!? There can be no high school shootings when there's no access to guns!

Yes, you're right. That's exactly why kitchen knives et al should be banned as well! Will someone please think of the children?!? http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/05/12/2568031.htm
http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/news-gossip-chat/26459-stabbing-mountain-creek-high-school.html
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-42523133.html

A gun is a tool exactly like a knife is a tool, except of course for those who gleefully eat meat and yet seriously have no idea where it comes from.

Re:Favorite nephew

[neumayr]

I don't quite get all this animosity towards closed down hardware - it's not like that's something that's come up recently.
Sure, theoretically, you should be able to do whatever you want with a device you own. And, as far as I know, you can. It's not illegal to reverse engineer your console/dishwasher/washing machine and make it do stuff it wasn't intended to do.
But you can't really expect hardware companies to make it easy. Naturally, they want their hardware to be used for its intended purpose. Console manufacturers want to sell games, washing machine companies want to sell more features for more money.
I'm not sure I understand your PSP reference, so maybe I'm missing an important point, but isn't it that it's no longer trivial to install a custom firmware on that thing?

Re:Favorite nephew

[DuckDodgers]

Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, and the other console makers build their business model around selling the console at a loss and then making up the difference as a percentage of game sales.

So if we ditched the DMCA and similar legislation, and any buyer could do whatever they wanted with their console, then Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo would have to adjust their pricing to account for the unit sales that would never be offset by game sales. They would revise the price of consoles up to compensate, and then buyers looking to buy consoles as a cheap way to get good hardware for non-gaming purposes would look elsewhere.

Don't get me wrong, I dislike DRM. But there will never be a cheap console with a highly competitive price for its computing power that the buyer can mod to their heart's content. The business model does not work. You're getting angry about a sales segment that will never exist. Ignore consoles.

Re:Favorite nephew

[SleazyRidr]

Of course, now that they're also starting to crack down on knives, there have been several screwdriver attacks. I'm actually slightly interested in what they'll move on to after screwdrivers are regulated.

Re:Favorite nephew

[SleazyRidr]

There shouldn't be a mechanism by which Sony can restrict my use of the apple's to be used in apple pie. However, there is. The DMCA. To further the analogy, it would be like a security guard following the apple around making sure it was only used in apple pies.

 
How is this any different to telling you that you're not allowed a gun? Saying that they might use the DMCA is exactly as saying that you might kill someone with your gun.

Re:Favorite nephew

[Bigjeff5]

Paperweights, candle sticks, rocks, fists, etc.

It really is not hard to kill someone if you really want to. It is not like guns were invented and then all of the sudden people started committing murders. It didn't happen with the invention of the knife either.

I imagine the first murder was probably committed with a rock, or was just an old-fashioned strangling. And really, animals have been killing with claws and teeth for millenia. People, being more intelligent, prefer to make and use tools to kill.

Banning guns stops nothing, and really it tends to make catching the criminal easier, because it leaves various traces at the scene of the crime.

Re:Favorite nephew

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

The analogy is perfect.

No, and repeatedly wishing for it does not make it so.

There is no enforceable contract, no implied social contract, that can prevent me from using it in any way I see fit.

This is why they use technical methods to lock the console down, not litigious. They don't need contract law when a sufficiently tough DRM scheme exists.

They have no right to lock it down at the factory.

I'm sorry, what? According to who? According to what law? They have all right to lock it down.

Between these kinds of Anti-Sony screeds and the bullshit people are giving Apple for the Palm Pre affair, it's making me really wonder about the intelligence of the average /.'er. Even Bruce Perens has gone around the bend. IT'S FUCKING MP3S. IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL.

You may want to forget it, but the rootkit was an incredibly serious event. Orders of magnitude greater than you are giving it. I am complaining about Sony restricting the use of my property. What the rootkit did was Sony restricting the use of ALL of my property, whether or not it was even purchased from Sony. If you brought the CD over to someone elses house Sony was then restricting the use of property that was never theirs, or that customer's either.

The Sony rootkit thing is the prime example of why Sony would be a little skittish about letting unrestricted, arbitrary software run on their games consoles. In addition to piracy, et al.

Do you understand that it was a total of 55 discs? 55. Big deal. The bigger deal is that consumers en masse use an OS that lets this happen. Most of the /. crowd is anti-Windows, so that's not point that's often made. Besides you didn't actually name any logical fallacy, and used one of your own by poisoning the well with the discussion of the Holocaust. I'm going to conclude you are either an idiot or a troll.

The fallacy is stating that the intentions or understandings of the manufacturer or consumer somehow construct an argument by which restrictions on the use of property become valid in any sense.

Because when you're sold a games console it's not your property until it's in your hands? Until that happens Sony can install an OS that locks it down?

It's an absolute unequivocal right for me to do so!!!!! It's my property DUDE!

Before it leaves the factory, it's theirs and before it's sold to you, it's the store's. If they decide at the factory to lock it down, it's your responsibility to break it open when you buy it.

You're an idiot. You don't understand the practical reasons why Sony would be interested in stopping pirates, and in doing so, squash the very tiny niche of the market that would want not just Linux, but full access Linux, running on their console.

I hope you're not a CFO, or CEO. You'd suck at it.

Re:Favorite nephew

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Do you see the flaw in your argument now? Go look up on "first sale doctrine" some day.

I'm not stating that because there's an EULA that Sony can do what ever the hell it feels like.

I'm stating, 'You bought a fucking PS3. Don't be shocked that you have to mod it to do things other than play games.'

Yeah, so what? If your roomba can run arbitrary code, there's no reason for the manufacturer to prevent you from doing that by including, in the device, hardware designed to prevent you from running arbitrary code, hardware that you pay for, that they pass the costs of to you, the consumer, the client, who buys a product, with tech inside it that prevents you to use as you see fit.

Because there's no liability for iRobot if they allow you to hack your Roomba. There's a huge liability that Sony loses game sales when people hack their PSPs and PS3s. I'm not saying don't hack the PSP or PS3 or that piracy is inherently bad, I'm simply pointing out why they would do this, and that it is a good idea.

Penny Arcade Charity

[Anonymous Coward]

Penny-arcade.com has a charity called "Child's Play" which provides hospitalized children with toys and electronic entertainment. If I were at a loss for what to do with a new video game console, that would be the way to go for me.

Congratulations on your good fortune.

Re:Penny Arcade Charity

[IDIIAMOTS]

Seconded. Give it to a charity or give it away as a gift. If you're short on cash for media center, sell it on eBay and build/buy your favorite flavor of OS for media center box.

Re:Penny Arcade Charity

[rm999]

Also, don't forget that the XBox is considered income and will be taxed as such. It could cost you up to 100 dollars to keep it or sell it (assuming you do your taxes honestly - I believe here in the US the IRS has been known to go after people who don't declare their prizes). So, if you sell it you only get 100-150 dollars - not too much.

If you give it to charity it is no longer income, and won't be taxed. I think this is the best way to go - the IRS can't tax karma ;)

Re:Penny Arcade Charity

[Mad Merlin]

...the IRS can't tax karma

Yet. No doubt they're working on it.

Re:Penny Arcade Charity

[thisisaccount2]

You bet your +3 "Informative" we can!

On a separate note, you owe us exactly .54 Mother Teresas of karma.

--The IRS

Re:Penny Arcade Charity

[Rycross]

Keep in mind that if you open it you may not be able to donate to Child's Play, however. In the past, they've rejected offers for used games and game consoles, because the hospitals wanted to avoid possible infection via pre-used controllers and whatnot.

Re:Penny Arcade Charity

[tomhudson]

You bet your +3 "Informative" we can!

On a separate note, you owe us exactly .54 Mother Teresas of karma.

She's dead. Jim. Ain't karma a bitch!

Re:Penny Arcade Charity

[ZipK]

If you give it to charity it is no longer income, and won't be taxed.

I am not a tax lawyer or accountant, but I'd guess once you've accepted the XBox it becomes taxable income. You can't undo this by donating it to charity, though you will get a charitable deduction. Unless you're in a tax bracket that causes your charitable deductions to be phased out, these should cancel out. If not, you should have the originator of the XBox donate it directly to the charity.

Re:Penny Arcade Charity

[sumdumass]

Your pretty much right. I know a preacher that got hit on taxes because he would take a pay form the church to get insurance coverage but donate the entire pay back to the church. He did that for about 10 years and all the sudden an audit came along and screwed that up for the same reasons you explained. Once you receive it, it's income. What you do with it later only counts when the tax law allows it. Now he just donates anything in excess of his taxes back to the church. He lives from a pension from a normal job he retired from years ago.

Re:Penny Arcade Charity

[cawpin]

The prize has to be of a certain value. I don't think the 360 would meet that price point.

Re:Penny Arcade Charity

[ShakaUVM]

>>If the OP is young or poor, I'm guessing that he is taking the standard deduction

If he's young and poor (less than $8000 in income), he's probably not going to be paying taxes anyway.

Re:Penny Arcade Charity

[ecolossal]

Check out the Child's Play website- I think the donations have to be sent directly from the retailer to the charity.

Re:Penny Arcade Charity

[couchslug]

"Yet. No doubt they're working on it."

I'm willing to mod you down for a modest fee. :)

Re:Penny Arcade Charity

[cheekyboy]

Sell it to your mom for $20, problem solved, taxes are low.

Claim 'its RROD'

Oh your mum says, this is useless, gives it back to you for $1.

I think the IRS has bigger problems, ie the whole usa going belly up.

Re:Penny Arcade Charity

[Trogre]

I am genuinely curious about this - assuming both you and kklein are US citizens, how is it that at least one of you manages to get a basic aspect of US Tax Law completely wrong?

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to make anyone look foolish, but I'm wondering where such misinformation could have originated, and why people seem to propagate it.

Of course I think any economy that taxes the prize /recipient/ is absolutely batshit retarded, but perhaps I've been spoiled in that regard.

Re:Penny Arcade Charity

[cawpin]

I was wrong. I think I was thinking of a state tax law I read. Federal taxes give no exceptions.

Jeez, you don't have to brag about it.

[tommut]

In similar news I just won a million dollars, however I am not much of a consumer. Anyone know of any good ways to spend this cash?

Re:Jeez, you don't have to brag about it.

[thrillseeker]

Anyone know of any good ways to spend this cash?

My thoughts intrigue you, and you wish to subscribe to my newsletter ...

Re:Jeez, you don't have to brag about it.

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

Yes, have you considered donating the prize money to the human fund? I can take care of all of the paper work and hassle for you, if you just sign over the check.

Re:Jeez, you don't have to brag about it.

[pig_man1899]

Cocaine and Hookers my good man; cocaine and hookers

Re:Jeez, you don't have to brag about it.

[Sideshow Mark]

In similar news I just won a million dollars, however I am not much of a consumer. Anyone know of any good ways to spend this cash?

Hookers and blackjack. Actually, forget about the blackjack.

How is this even a question?

[djh101010]

If you don't want it and won't use it, sell it on eBay and move on. This isn't a complicated thing. For centuries, people have won random shiat they don't care about in lotteries. Sell the useful shiat, profit, live happy, and let whatever minor player who buys (thing you won) manage it. Sure, they might do better than you might have. Yet, say, 20 Million now, vs. 40 million if you guess right, well, I'm with the $20M right now crowd of thinking. You should see our datacenter. Holy crap, how could anyone do better?

Use it for casual gaming gift it, or sell it

[syousef]

Seriously, you're trying to use a proverbial hammer to saw a tree. An XBox 360 is the wrong tool for anything but gaming, which is what it was built for. Therefore trying to run Linux on it or do other cool stuff is a waste of the machine UNLESS you're into that cool stuff to start with and THAT is the game. Given that you're still wondering how to use it, the answer is simple. Use it for gaming. Or sell it and let someone use it for gaming. Or give it away and let someone use it for gaming. As a media center, there are better options - if you sell it put the money towards buying one. As a linux PC, an XBox isn't the best solution. Sell it and buy a nice Intel or AMD based machine.

The world's full of interesting geeky stuff to do. One of the least interesting things you can do is to waste time forcing a machine to do something it's not designed for. Especially since you'll be using it not writing the software to do it in the first place. Life's too short.

Re:Use it for casual gaming gift it, or sell it

[EdIII]

One of the least interesting things you can do is to waste time forcing a machine to do something it's not designed for

Huh. Really?

I guess by that logic McGuyver was one of most boring shows on the fucking planet, and Mr. T from A-Team was the lest interesting man on television. I pity the foo.

Re:Use it for casual gaming gift it, or sell it

[syousef]

I guess by that logic McGuyver was one of most boring shows on the fucking planet, and Mr. T from A-Team was the lest interesting man on television. I pity the foo.

Knowing things about common household chemicals was very interesting, but when MacGyver started saving whales and diffusing nuclear weapons with duct tape I must admit I stopped watching. (Years later my wife and I, who both watched the show as kids, bought the episodes on DVD. For her its' more about remembering time spent watching with her grandmother though).

As for the A-Team it was interesting, but lets face it, the show was more about the wronged underdog rising up and beating the stuffing out of his oppressors. As such it was more about action than tinkering. The tinkering montage was just a theatrical device.

Re:Use it for casual gaming gift it, or sell it

[mpoulton]

The world's full of interesting geeky stuff to do. One of the least interesting things you can do is to waste time forcing a machine to do something it's not designed for.

And here I though that was the MOST interesting thing to do, and one of the most geeky. Guess I've been wasting all my free time! I should find a hobby that's actually interesting.

Re:Use it for casual gaming gift it, or sell it

[EdIII]

As such it was more about action than tinkering. The tinkering montage was just a theatrical device.

Dear God. Hand in your geek card NOW.

I could not disagree MORE. A-Team was about how this group of expertly trained ex-military personnel kept constantly getting trapped in spaces full of parts, tools, various types of fuel and explosives, and other various materials. That coupled with Mr. T's magical tools which just coincidentally looked like a bunch of gold jewelery on his neck, allowed them to break through the various walls comprising their temporary prisons with a different death machine each week.

That show was a gold mine for little geeks growing up that have been tinkering and hacking away since then. It was definitely more about the "tinkering" than the "action". Any true card carrying geek on Slashdot knows this.

Come on. Hand it over.........

Re:Use it for casual gaming gift it, or sell it

[EdIII]

Living instead of dying is probably the best reward for any task (especially when it involves dying.)

Which proves you have a Vagina.

The best reward for doing any task, if you are a man, is SEX. Living is probably 2nd, Money 3rd, Fame 4th, etc. Maybe not in that order exactly for everyone, but SEX is 1ST. Does not matter if you are gay either. As long as you have a Penis, the best reward for just waking up in the morning, is Sex.

Now, the reason why you provably have a Vagina, is that women don't need Sex as a reward for anything. It is truly on-demand for all women. Which is why when a man proffers sex as a reward for a women's actions she is likely to get offended, or at best, go along with the hilarious joke you just made. As if she would need to work it.

Let me explain:

For women, Sex is like fish in the ocean, and their Vagina's are the fishing lure. Some women can get a "bite" before the lure even hits the water. Others 10 to 20 seconds. Even the "10 beers" women can get something within 5 minutes. All women could get a something within an hour TOPS. ALL WOMEN.

Now the women that complain they can't get a "fish" are either too picky (throwing too many fish back) or too stupid (setting their line on the edge of a cliff 5000 ft. above sea level).

Re:Use it for casual gaming gift it, or sell it

[syousef]

And here I though that was the MOST interesting thing to do, and one of the most geeky. Guess I've been wasting all my free time! I should find a hobby that's actually interesting.

Yeah actually you should. Plenty of good hobbies involve tinkering and are better than wasting your time on machines and operating systems that will be dead in 10 years anyway. Now if you're writing device drivers, improving Linux kernels etc. it's a different story. In that case carry on. But if you're one of these tragics that installs hack after hack but never actually does anything practical with the hacked hardware, find a new hobby. Remote control planes are good if you've got the money and live near a field. Plus it gets you into a slightly more social setting and out in the fresh air. Sailing's good if you're near the water, but again requires money.

Re:Use it for casual gaming gift it, or sell it

[chainz]

One of the least interesting things you can do is to waste time forcing a machine to do something it's not designed for.

If everyone thought the same way as you do we wouldn't have XBMC, the best media centre software around. Hacking and Modding is all about using things for purposes they were not designed for and in doing so has brought about some really innovative stuff.

Re:Use it for casual gaming gift it, or sell it

[elrous0]

I accept with your point that the 360 was primarily designed for gaming. But, that said, I must confess that I use my 360 mostly for non-gaming stuff. I'd say my 360 is used about 30% of the time for gaming and about 70% of the time for streaming Netflix and watching DVD's and HD-DVD's (yes I know that format is dead, but the discs are dirt cheap now and why pay a lot more for the blu-ray version when it's the same transfer). The 360 is the only console that can stream Netflix (without some hack, anyway) and it's one of the few DVD players I've seen that properly switches between different aspect ratios automatically on a widescreen TV--it knows I have a widescreen TV and will play an anamorphic or HD disc in 16:9, but if I put in a non-anamorphic DVD it will play it at its proper 4:3 ratio without stretching the image, whereas all my other players will try to play non-anamorphic discs at 16:9 (distorting the image) unless I manually go into the menu and tell it I have a 4:3 TV.

Re:Use it for casual gaming gift it, or sell it

[Mr_DW]

"An XBox 360 is the wrong tool for anything but gaming..."
Seriously you don't know what your taking about. I've spent years playing with front ends to put video on the TV. The best I've come across, if you don't need hd output, is an xbmc modded xbox. If you want hd use the 360. Go into your videos section and link it to your shared media. Or even better, use the 360 as an extender to your pc so you can play mkv etc.
Now the original post wanted streaming tv straight from the 360 and that, probably, makes the 360 a horrible choice.

Re:Use it for casual gaming gift it, or sell it

[cbhacking]

To be fair, the Xbox 360 is also an excellent platform for watching videos. They just have to be either downloaded from the 'net (Netflix, Xbox Live), stored on external media (the 360 has 3 USB ports, and you can connect a drive containing a movie and play it easily), or stored on a computer (easier with Media Center, but possible without). Media Center further opens the possibility to use your PC as a DVR, and from there it's possible t watch the recorded shows on your TV via the console.

However, to the best of my knowledge nobody has yet managed to turn the 360 into a media center itself, and frankly if you're not going to use it for gaming at all, then you really might as well sell/give/donate it to somebody who will. If you don't desperately need the cash, I second another poster's suggestion of the Child's Play charity - if you're not a gamer you may not have heard of Penny Arcade (the webcomic) but those guys started a very awesome charity project. Hospitals are a terrible combination of boring and scary, and if a sick kid can spend some time playing games instead of lying around with nothing to do but be afraid, that's a wonderful thing to provide.

Re:Use it for casual gaming gift it, or sell it

[kramerd]

Ignoring the fact that the majority of thing s McGuyver did couldn't have actually been done, he did everything he did with the resources available. There are better systems than an Xbox for computer related [whatever]. I pity you for confusing television with reality, and the mods who modded you up for their very existence. Shame on all of you.

Re:Use it for casual gaming gift it, or sell it

[EdIII]

I pity you for confusing television with reality, and the mods who modded you up for their very existence. Shame on all of you.

You must be a blast at parties right?

Re:Use it for casual gaming gift it, or sell it

[kramerd]

I don't really see the connection here...you must still be in high school, a place where saying "i have alcohol" and not lying about it means you can get laid.

I don't really have a need to be the center of attention by being the guy who spent 400 bucks just to be the guy who bought some kegs. I'm quite happy being that reliable guy who can actually drive home afterwards without risking a felony.

I know its confusing hearing that someone doesnt need a blinding beacon going "hey, look at me motherfuckers, I'm the only thing you ever need to care about," but maybe, the community college you eventually fail out of will have someone who cares, even for a second, that you exist.

When you have a logical point, let me know.

If you've got a big screen, sell it and get a PS3

[Lije Baley]

HTPC/Media centers are a pain in the a$$ and streaming video is for kids with 22" screens and huge pipes. Get a PS3, it's not perfect but it's an excellent blu-ray player, will stream stuff, and you won't have to spend an hour fiddling with it every other time you use it. Use it with TVersity or the like for more flexibility on streaming. Or if you do have just a small screen, keep the 360 and stream all you want.

XBMC = Xbox Media Center

[Michael Wardle]

Isn't that what XBMC is for?

Re:XBMC = Xbox Media Center

[snuf23]

XBMC was originally made for hacked classic Xboxes. It doesn't run on the Xbox 360. While it was great at the time, the old Xbox didn't support HD output which limits it's use these days.
XBMC has however been ported to run on Windows, Linux and Macintosh operating systems and does support HD output on these systems. This makes for a pretty good home theater PC setup and is more flexible than the built in stuff on Xbox 360.

Re:XBMC = Xbox Media Center

[marcansoft]

That's for Xbox1 (and now Win/Mac/Linux), not the 360. The Xbox1 does make a great media center, but although some HD capability is claimed, it's damn near useless for anything above 480p. There are also legal issues with XBMC on an Xbox1 running natively (the native/original port is compiled with the Xbox SDK and therefore distributing or having binaries is copyright infringement). Running Linux on an Xbox1 is also pretty tight because it only has 64MB of RAM. I upgraded mine to 128MB and managed to get the MythTV frontend working very well, though.

Re:XBMC = Xbox Media Center

[StealthSock]

XBMC still doesn't run on 360's though. I'd sell it and get a standalone media player such as a WD TV if you don't need network streaming or an Mvix Ultio if you do. Better yet, get a DVI to HDMI cable and watch stuff off your computer.

Re:XBMC = Xbox Media Center

[softparade]

What are people using to replace their xbox1 with xbmc? I am part of the people who love the simplicity and great features of xbox with xbmc but would like to be able to play HD

Re:XBMC = Xbox Media Center

[Albanach]

Indeed. It sounds like he's in the market for XBMC and not an Xbox 360.

To make life really easy, he could see the xbox on ebay, the use the cash to buy an appleTV. The USB installer will have XBMC running in a flash, and, AIUI, the AppleTV is at least good for 720p.

Re:XBMC = Xbox Media Center

[0100010001010011]

Short answer, If you're a 'plop down some cash and be done with it' type of guy. Get the Acer Aspire Revo AR1600-U910H at newegg for $199US.

Long answer, get hat ever the hell makes you happy, Just make sure that it runs an Nvidia video card that supports VDPAU and you're in the money.

There are nightly .deb builds here: http://sshcs.com/xbmc/ (Also available for other platforms). There are a ton of tutorials available on xbmc.org.

Most people are fond of the ION series, it's a 9300 series GeForce paired with an Intel processor. There's one guy who is working on getting a $30 broadcom chip working in the AppleTV that can decode everything up through 1080p, however it seems to be 'a month away'. Plus there aren't any legal drivers for any OS out there yet.

You can even boot it as a 'live' CD/USB. I'm thinking about getting a small CF card and using that. I have the XBMC Debian install down to around 700MB. Most of the Devs and other users prefer Ubuntu. (as far as linux goes).

XBMC has taken leaps and bounds since forking from the original XBox hardware. It's absolutely gorgeous. The skins ... wow. There are companies out there that can't come up with an interface as nice or slick as this that works as well. UPnP, Bonjour, SMB, ReplayTV, even Live TV with some plugins.... which also kick ass. There are plugins for Youtube to Apple TV trailers to YouPorn :).

I rarely buy software (and stick to freeware) and even more rarely donate much (I'm just frugal). However XBMC just got $100 from me. For $50 and I got a used xbox with a broken DVD drive 6 years ago. It has been hands down the best multimedia device I have ever seen. With the addition of a CPU/GPU that can do 1080p... no questions asked.

Re:XBMC = Xbox Media Center

[Znarl]

I am a big fan of XMBC and while it's not a perfect replacement just yet, MPlayer CE on a soft modded Wii is showing some real promise. The Wii has the advantage of already being under your TV in your living room, unlike a PC.

Re:XBMC = Xbox Media Center

[dave420]

I used it for the first time the other day and I wasn't impressed, compared to Media Center, anyway. The uPNP client/server was nice, but the UI was shoddy, slow, and confusing.

Re:XBMC = Xbox Media Center

[RMH101]

I'm a long term XBMC-on-Xbox user and I'm looking for something that duplicates it, but with better HD support. It's gotta be livign room friendly - my original Xbox can be operated entirely with my logitech harmony remote, and I don't need to dig out a keyboard to eject the DVD or anything dumb. Can I do all this with XBMC running on a mini ITX ION-based rig?

Re:XBMC = Xbox Media Center

[0100010001010011]

You'll need an LIRC setup. Which means either a generic USB/Serial IR receiver, or I just went with a cheap HP MCE remote from ebay (With that Ugly Win Logo). With LIRC you can map any button to about any function. Eject, Sleep, Power, etc

Only thing most people don't seem to have gotten perfect yet is sleep, but I think that's more of a Linux thing than anything. I haven't timed my boot, but I think it's in the 50 second range with nothing fancy on a debian install.

Check out the forums. http://xbmc.org/forum/ for answers to almost all of your questions, including step by step walkthroughs.

Re:XBMC = Xbox Media Center

[RMH101]

Combine with an asrock ion 330 mimi itx box, and I think I've found my next htpc. Looks like it supports hardware acceleration of BBC iplayer, too. Count me in...!

Re:XBMC = Xbox Media Center

[0100010001010011]

If you really want Tiny, that's the way to go. I'm leaning towards an old cheap 1.5gHz board with a GT210 or GT220, which are Feature Set C VDPAU boards.

Meaning they toss off Divx and Xvid in addition to the x264. Plus they support SD content upscaling in the GPU.

The Nettop box with the power it has will probably do a very good upscaling as is and not have any problems.

Then again I like to build my own cases, plus I already have an old MiniATX laying around for $60 I have myself a brand new shiny machine.

Hospital

[Anonymous Coward]

Give it to a local children's hospital. Cheer up some kids that could use it.

Re:Hospital

[moon3]

Good point. Mod parent up pls.

Re:Hospital

[Xin Jing]

Yes, I like this option the best. The ultimate re-purpose: as a free gift for others that could really use the entertainment value and take their minds off of reality for awhile.

Re:Hospital

[bitt3n]

Give it to a local children's hospital. Cheer up some kids that could use it.

preferably with a copy of TRAUMA CENTER: UNDER THE KNIFE

Re:Hospital

[imamac]

Best suggestion in here.

RROD class action

[l00sr]

Simple. Wait 'til it RROD's, hit up that class action suit, then... Profit!

Re:RROD class action

[arbiter1]

you may get what 100$, only people that make out in those is the lawyer. rest of the ppl get chump change. sell it on ebay use money for a pc you can make in to a media center pc

Re:RROD class action

[hldn]

meh i got $350 from a microsoft class action suit in my state :D

Re:RROD class action

[martinw89]

He might need to actually play games on it to get it to red ring (god forbid!)

Lets see...

[Darkness404]

You can either A) Use it to play games and some media B) Sell it C) Donate it/give it away. I have no doubt that a local children's hospital would be eternally greatful for the gift. You could always donate it to some guy like Ben Heck (http://benheck.com/) to use in a mod to help a gamer with disabilities (or just to look pretty cool as a mod), or if worse comes to worse, keep it in its box and save it for a few years and sell it then in mint condition.

Re:Lets see...

[weicco]

I just broke my XBox 360 and of course warranty just expired. So I would be happy to relieve the submitter from his problems!

Re:Lets see...

[felixdecat]

Who the hell is going to want a mint condition 360... I can understand some of the older consoles having some re-sell value (arcade games, childhood memories), but can you see anyone growing up in this generation in 10 years going "man I really want a 360 so I can play some of those 360 classics woohoo halo3"?

I say...

[Fizzol]

keep the xbox and use it as a media extender. I rarely game, almost never, but I use my 360 to play Netflix streaming movies, DVDs, and downloaded videos. It works great.

Re:I say...

[Fizzol]

Sorry to reply to my own post, but I forgot another big plus. I can watch shows and movies recorded on my Media Center PC on the xbox, rather than sitting at my computer desk. I like that a lot.

Re:I say...

[ender-]

I'll second this. Look, maybe it's not as sexy as having a Linux based media hub or something, but I've been using my XBox 360 as an extender for a Vista MediaCenter PC and it works great. There's a ton of great games for it, and it still spends many hours a day acting as the prime interface for our living room media needs.

It's the Media Center Extender for a media PC [Vista] with Dual HDTV OTA tuners, I can stream Netflix directly [with XBox Live Gold], I can stream my XVID+AC3 movies with full surround from the media PC [using Media Player sharing]. If you really don't want to mess with a back-end media center PC, you can also just copy your XVID/DIVX/H.264 movies to a USB hard drive, and play them directly. I can play DVD and HD-DVDs. That's what's available natively.

On top of that, by paying $30 [one-time] for PlayON to run on the media center PC, I can browse and watch Hulu and Youtube and various other video sites [or Netflix if you don't want to pay for XBOX Live].

And if you do use a back-end media PC, I'm pretty sure you can use multiple XBox360s as front-ends to different rooms.

The only thing it can't do is play BluRay.

The PS3 can do most of that as well, plus play BluRay. It'll still need a back-end PC to do Hulu/Netflix and such. I'm not sure what the PS3's capabilities are with regards to acting as an extender for a back-end Tuner/DVR solution [maybe a MythTV front end? I dunno].

So it boils down to if you don't already have a BR player, and if you want to deal with selling the XBox, and paying the difference to get a PS3.

Re:I say...

[jdbausch]

3/4 of the way down a useful post comes along. mod ender up. the 360 works fine as a upnp client. I use FUPPES to stream photos, videos and music from my ubuntu box. It will also work with windows media center, and ORB.com. there are a lot of options... i also use the xbox 360 all the time for netflix streaming, and I keep a usb drive laying around to just plug and play media... I also have an old laptop laying around that streams hulu content using PlayOn (which would also do netflix, if I were not paying for xbox live gold anyway) And, if you look at just the big name games available at your local game store, you are missing out on the TONS of great xbox live arcade games. I probably spend more time playing those games than full blown releases. without any modding the 360 is a good way to get media to your screen. I'm actually thinking of getting another one for the bedroom, watching all this media on the laptop is getting old, since I have that damn tv just right there...

Re:I say...

[CronoCloud]

the PS3 could do Hulu on it's own with the built in web browser until Hulu got pissy about a device that is normally hooked up to a television in the living room (instead of a monitor on a desk) being able to access Hulu.

works

[unhooked]

The 360 works fine for my purposes playing media streamed from my FreeBSD box. Not as pretty as the shares coming from the gaming machine using media player 11, but it works and I don't have to think about it. Ushare is the app used for sharing media and it is part of geexbox so I'm sure if you wanted more functionality it would work for you.

ebay

[Joe The Dragon]

ebay

Your timing is perfect!

[BlackSabbath]

Don't listen to any of these other twits banging on about charities this and Linux that.
I absolutely MUST have it to play Brutal Legend! (due for release next week)

This is no coincidence...Fate demands you give it me.

Re:Your timing is perfect!

[BlackSabbath]

To all the idiots who modded me "Offtopic" - get a dictionary.

The poster is trying to get rid of an XBox and asking for opinions on how to get rid of it. A FUCKING XBOX!!! That's a "game console". Games...you know, like BrutalLegend (or even Bonestorm :-). I offered to take his Xbox, and the reason I offered, is that BrutalLegend is being released next week...FOR THE XBOX (and PS3).

I meant it to be funny. Maybe it isn't, and maybe it's a bit similar to the prior "give it to me" posts, possibly garnering a "-1, Redundant". To mod it Offtopic however is just dumb...

Where are the bloody meta-moderators when you need'em?

Simple.

[pizza_milkshake]

Blow it up.

Re:Simple.

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly.. send it to Mythbusters and ask them to prove or disprove the myth that the Xbox 360 has no shrapnel when detonated with an internal detonator while in a microwave. :P

Re:Simple.

[awpoopy]

Blow it up.

...and put the video of blowing it up on youtube.

STFU

[dkone]

How in the hell did this make it to the front page of Slashdot? Wait it is an attempt bash MS, so lets push it through. Oh my God, I can't believe the Xbox360 won't run Linux or do exactly what I want it to do. Get over it, it was not designed to be a general purpose device. MS made it to compete in the console arena not against the media center PC.

Wahhh I won a new car and it won't run the latest version of Debian... STFU and either sell your Xbox and buy something you can make work to your desire, give it away as a gift (which would make you the worlds coolest uncle) or buy some of the better Xbox games and enjoy it for what it is.

Re:I say... dlna client

[wgc]

Not just any media extender, but how about a dlna client? Get a network drive that serves dlna (many possibilities), then you just need to throw your pictures, video and music out on your network and you should be able to use the xbox to see/hear them through your entertainment center.

Supposedly this works: ever since I discovered my network drive serves dlna, I've been considering getting an xbox as a good, cheap dlna client, but I haven't actually tried this yet.

For those who want to run a media server: my network drive only draws 20 watts and serves most of the same features except for DVR functionality.

So.....

[Anonymous Coward]

Will it blend?

Popcorn Hour

[Bl4ckJ3sus]

Sell it, and buy a popcorn hour. Simple. http://www.popcornhour.com/onlinestore/ With that said, I have a 360 and the netflix streaming is very very nice, but no substitute for a popcorn hour and torrents.

re: Media Center

[transporter_ii]

I have a friend who modded an Xbox to make it a media center and it is awesome. I went the PC route and made a central PC server and stream to my TVs with a d-link set top box.

Here is my experience. I used to get movies and watch movies. Boy, were those the days. Now I get movies, rip movies, convert movies to avi or mp4, and move huge files around (very slowly). The last drive I bought was a 1.5 terabyte, and I'm thinking about getting another one...because what else do you freaking back up a 1.5 terabyte drive to but another drive? And my UPnP server was on Linux, but the box was dual boot, so if someone was in windows, we couldn't watch streaming video...so I just built a new server to fix that issue.

When I finally get to sit down and actually watch a movie, it isn't uncommon for me to get up in the middle of it and kick off another DVD folder to be converted.

If I went over to my friend's house to actually play a game on his Xbox media center, we would probably have to wait an hour and a half to play something, because he would probably be FTPing a big movie to it at the time!

And hey, I just ordered a mod chip and picked up an Xbox so he could build me one. Why? I don't know. It's just cool.

Version

[RiotingPacifist]

You need to know the version you get before seeing if it is hackable, chances are a new xbox will have a kernel > 4548. However if by some miracle you hack it, your best bet is to then install a minimal ubuntu/debian install with mythTV or something related as your GUI.

streaming to xbox360

[Nasser]

you could stream videos, music, youtube, internet radio, etc to your xbox360 (or any other DLNA client for that matter) with PS3mediaServer http://code.google.com/p/ps3mediaserver/

Xmas present for your enemy

[NSN A392-99-964-5927]

Just do what you decided. Give it as a Christmas present. You really do not want all the hassle of an xbox or PS3 for that matter. The games are expensive and to stream media is easy. I say forget the technological emotional blackmail that gets you hooked into parting with far more money than you intended. This is the way these corporations work. Remember you always have a choice even though circumstances appear that you do not. Just psychological entrapment. Do not even get me started on illegal "info gathering" when you put it online. Give it to someone you hate.

Re:Xmas present for your enemy

[^_^x]

I agree. I'm a gamer and would love a free one, but if you're just going to repurpose it, then you could cheaply have a more capable, quieter, less power-hungry media centre PC that you could do more things with. These days it's probably really not practical to mod it or use as-is for non-gaming activities unless you like Netflix.

It already does what you want

[McBeer]

The Xbox 360 can stream tv/movies/music using a Zune pass, tv/movies using a Netflix subscription, and it plays CDs/DVDs. You don't need to hack it at all.

Re:It already does what you want

[Tynin]

The Xbox 360 can stream tv/movies/music using a Zune pass, tv/movies using a Netflix subscription, and it plays CDs/DVDs. You don't need to hack it at all.

Don't you need an Xbox gold account (thus pay monthly to MS) in order to use Netflix? If I was using it to just stream media to my TV, I surely would not pay extra each month just to use my Netflix account.

Re:It already does what you want

[TrancePhreak]

You can get a year of Live Gold for $30. That's an extra $2.50 a month.

Obviously...

[FurtiveGlancer]

Makes a perfect, decorative paperweight for all your large scale designs to take over the world! Narff!

Why would you need to ask this question?

[PotatoSan]

Is this really a situation that you can't figure out on your own? Are you even capable of dressing yourself without help? For that matter, how did this make the front page of Slashdot? Is this a common occurrence that perplexes a large portion of the readership? I eagerly await the day when I see the headline "Ask Slashdot: What Should I Have for Breakfast?"

Re:Why would you need to ask this question?

[edcheevy]

Why wait? You can follow my Twitter feed to learn what I had for breakfast!

Re:Why would you need to ask this question?

[craagz]

Give the guy a break.
He knows of two ways with xbox
1. Gaming - not interested,
2. Linux - which might be a hassle
he is soliciting other ways to use the xbox. Now this will create new avenues for others to learn new (geeky) things.

What about the challenge? Or, try Free60.

[svtdragon]

I think those who complain about how hard it is to do this underestimate the draw of a good challenge. I'm tempted to free mine, but I use it for gaming too much.

As to what to do with this one:
Step 1: Do not connect to XBOX Live
Step 2: Do not download Summer 09 update
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit!

In this case, Step 3 is "try Free60." And step 3.5 is "use XBOX360 as a Linux machine."

Two chicks at one time man.

[Anonymous Coward]

Two chicks at one time...

Re:Two chicks at one time man.

[Anonymous Coward]

Poor you.. you need to pay 1mio to get pleased by two women at one time...

giveittome!

[stpk4]

I'm pretty sure someone would have said this already but...why not trade it with someone (like me! =D) for a media PC =P

Hmm

[Dyinobal]

Perhaps you can find a hooker that would accept it as payment for some of her services.

Youtube viral video!

[NotQuiteReal]

Video it while you tee it up and whack it with a nine iron! Instant hit.

Or just dump it on eBay or Craigslist. Sheesh. I weep for our future.

Just Sell or Donate - so the next step is...

[thatkid_2002]

Get rid of the XBox whatever way (the hardware is crap and barely lasts a year anyway) and use cash you get from it (if any) to build a Myth TV box.

A myth TV box seems to be what you want. This will cost you about $600USD (or AUD, we are pretty close now) and here is some basic steps:
1. Contemplate exactly what you want, just to be sure.
2. Go to $RESALER website (I hear theres this thing called New Egg in the USA) and look at some parts probably the $100 USD/piece range is fine.
3. Research the parts to make sure they play well with Ubuntu Linux (I'm no 'buntu fanboi, I use Fedora, but I digress)
4. Compare compatibility and reliability with others in the price range.
5. Order, and wait for parts to come.
6. Assemble.
7. Load Mythbuntu (I heard it is the best MythTV distro, but there is Mythdora as well)
8. Set up the box as best you can.
9. Use $YOUR-FAVOURITE-IMAGING-SOFTWARE to make an image of the Mythtv box. I really can't stress this enough.
10. Try not to fiddle with the settings as you will almost certainly break your setup.

Distrubted processing?

[oljanx]

I understand that networked GPUs have become increasingly valuable in distributed processing. I'm not aware of anything that can utilize a 360. Can anyone offer input on that?

Re:Distrubted processing?

[oljanx]

Also, spelling is for losers.

Back in the day.

[that this is not und]

Back in the day, I could run NetBSD on a Powerbook 165 if I wanted. The only issues would be that there wasn't keyboard or display support for the laptop. It was reported to work okay over a serial console.

Using an Xbox 360 for Linux seems like just an updated version of the same thing.

Re:What about the challenge? Or, try Free60.

[jonwil]

If its a brand new 360, it will already have the latest not-yet-hackable firmware on it.

Re:If you've got a big screen, sell it and get a P

[radish]

Why is a PS3 better at streaming to a large screen than an Xbox? Oh right, it's not. XBox will be doing instant-start 1080p streaming soon, and does HD Netflix now...unlike the PS3. The PS3 is quieter, and obviously the blu-ray is good if you want to play discs, but I'd pick the 360 for streaming. Well actually I use Tivos, more family-friendly interface.

Re:If you've got a big screen, sell it and get a P

[Loomismeister]

Yea the OP doesn't know what he's talking about. Xbox360 is a great media center in combination with a computer. Also, he looked at the gaming scene for xbox and decided he didn't want to do it? I hope he means he doesn't want any games at all, because microsoft has the best selection out there.

Could be worse. You could have won a game.

[Animats]

I went over to EA for a technical talk once and "won" a raffle for a copy of EA Golf for the XBox 360. (It was more like "second prize is two copies of EA Golf".)

I also won an XBox

[danerthomas]

I've got two kids at home (15 and 11 years old) who have a Wii hooked up to the one and only TV (21" CRT) that we have. When I brought the XBox home I asked the kids if they would rather keep it and be forced to spread their meager allowances between buying games for two different machines, or sell it and use the cash for other things. We ended up selling it to one of my son's friends for just under the going retail value. I kept half of the money and my kids split the rest as a reward for having found a buyer. Everybody thinks that they got a good deal, and my son still gets to play on it at his friend's house.

I have a suggestion

[pcolaman]

Sending you my mailing address, make sure you bubble wrap it. Don't want any scratches on my new XBox 360.

well i would...

[trum4n]

....SMASH IT!!!!!!


call me childish, but i'm enjoying life, how about you?

Great for media center

[wisnoskij]

I own an original xbox and properly modified it is a perfect media center.
I am not up on current Xbox 360 homebrew events, but all console makers are trying to crack down on homebrew and failing completely.
And since you would be installing your own OS, their is no reason to even connect to MS to get updates in the first place.

While I have never tried linux xbox, modding is very easy on the xbox 360 and it was always easy to install software/OSes on the original xbox.

Sell it for a real media player...

[TavisJohn]

Just sell it and use the money to get a real Set Top media player...
http://www.popcornhour.com/

Profit?

[GoochOwnsYou]

You could sell it, or it can be a christmas present you dont have to go out and buy(its only a few months off).

What To Do With a Free Xbox 360 Pro?

[Odinlake]

paperweight?

Get a Mini Mac

[asamad]

I had a dedicated pc then got a chipped xbox (still have it), but now I have a mac mini (last revision), connected to my projector (1080i), i have installed plex which is a fork of xbmc for OSX. and it connects via nfs to my main file server.

All i use is the mac remote it turn the mac on from sleep mode and lets me control plex. Only thing missing from plex is a tv tuner - but I have another app on the mac to do that - but it means using another remote.....

Here is what you can do

[Taco Cowboy]

Auction it on E-bay with the announcement that all proceeds will go to fight hunger in America

Re:Here is what you can do

[unitron]

Auction it on E-bay with the announcement that all proceeds will go to fight hunger in America

Just don't mention that it's strictly your own hunger on which the proceeds will be spent.

Re:If you've got a big screen, sell it and get a P

[MacGyver2210]

I stream to a 96" diagonal projector screen, but my pipe is still huge. WiMP is awesome for streaming to the XBox because it's extremely unintrusive. I just run it on a desktop in my corner all the time and the 360 is basically the head to that system. Sucks that you need at least WMP11 or I would stream my even larger collection from my various other puters. WMP 11 blows hard.

Re:If you've got a big screen, sell it and get a P

[Lije Baley]

Actually, I agree with the both of you. I would pick the 360 for gaming, but the guy didn't seem to be asking about gaming so I didn't cover it from that angle. I would also pick the 360 for streaming, but it obviously does not have a blu-ray drive so it's not good for big screens - the focus of my comment.

Same thing happend to me

[Tiger4]

I won an original Xbox back when they were new. I didn't need it, none of my cousins cared about it. I was going to try loading Linux on it, but eventually it just went back in the box. Still brand new, basically unused, two fresh games, sitting in a closet. I suppose someday I'll give it to a museum.

Re:I say... dlna client

[bigstrat2003]

It works very, very well. I use Windows Media Player to serve the media, and the 360 plays it beautifully. It doesn't play every video format under the sun, but it does play DivX and XviD, which is the majority of video files.

No IRS exceptions for prizes.

[kklein]

Nope, any prize must be claimed. See Publication 525, page 34. The example given is a $50 prize.

Report on form 1040, line 21.

Re:No IRS exceptions for prizes.

[sifi]

Just looked at that. I particularly like the line:
Bribes. If you receive a bribe include it in your income.

Aren't bribes like illegal in the US?? on the other hand could be a typo - perhaps they meant brides?

Re:No IRS exceptions for prizes.

[schmiddy]

Aren't bribes like illegal in the US?? on the other hand could be a typo - perhaps they meant brides?

Not a typo. See e.g. Publication 525

Illegal activities. Income from illegal activities, such as money from dealing illegal drugs, must be included in your income on Form 1040, line 21, or on Schedule C or Schedule C-EZ (Form 1040) if from your self-employment activity.

If you're wondering whether you'd get arrested for reporting illegal income, yes you certainly would. If you're wondering whether the IRS's taxing of illegal income and forcing you to report it violates the 5th amendment, yes it does, but no judge is brave enough to fight it.

Re:No IRS exceptions for prizes.

[OldeTimeGeek]

Remeber, before the RICO laws, the Feds used tax laws to put mobsters behind bars. That may be why the setion in the revinue code is there...

Re:No IRS exceptions for prizes.

[cheekyboy]

$50 prize

Total tax, $15.

IRS paper work, and red tape costs, $250.

Oh yeah, lets bankcrupt usa sending prize tax forms for $1 x 100 billion.

Sell sell sell...

[GWRedDragon]

Sell it and make yourself a mini-itx box.

Pick up something like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500030

$170 for a dual-core 64-bit capable mini-itx machine with real nvidia graphics. After you add a couple 2gb ram sticks and a decent HD you will still have a few hundred bucks left over from the trade to get all your friends drunk, or whatever. And, you won't have to worry about your hardware manufacturer constantly doing everything possible to prevent you from using your own hardware.

Donate It

[foo fighter]

Give it to your local childrens' hospital. Be a gent and throw in extra controllers and an E for everyone game like Lego Indiana Jones, Lego Star Wars, or Viva Pinata.

Re:Donate It

[cbhacking]

There are also a number of charitable organizations (the two that immediately come to mind are Child's Play and Children International) that provide games to sick kids. Donate the console to one of them if you want to take the easy route - they'll make sure it ends up in a hospital or similar somewhere, complete with games, controllers, and TV.

Re: Media Center

[fenix849]

That good sir, depends on how much money you have. http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/en/WF04a/12169-304612-82176-82176-82176.html

Re:If you've got a big screen, sell it and get a P

[Osty]

it obviously does not have a blu-ray drive so it's not good for big screens - the focus of my comment.

Right, and you completely missed the point of the people replying to you. You assume that Blu-Ray is the only way to do 1080p video. Not so. The Xbox 360 can stream H.264 videos at 1080p, and the Zune Marketplace in the Fall update will have "instant on" streaming 1080p videos. The Netflix HD streams (720p) look great on a big screen as well.

Blu-Ray is pretty much dead. Online streaming/download is the way of the future, for both games and videos.

Buy a PC

[cyberzephyr]

I have and probably will ever be a Windows user. You want to have a Windows Media Center experience
then go buy a PC! We are not talking Adobe, ok?

Re:If you've got a big screen, sell it and get a P

[Lije Baley]

Do those Netflix HD streams still look good when the picture is moving...or when your kid gets on YouTube in the other room? I'll believe it when I see comparable picture quality over an average (non-South Korean) connection. The whole thing is just a damned waste of bandwidth too, even if they are caching at the ISP.

The right tool for the right job

[PhunkySchtuff]

And this is not it. MS position it as a Media Centre Extender, and for this it's not too bad. You have your big, loud, full-of-fans-and-hard-drives Media Centre server in a cupboard somewhere and your 360 as the playback unit. Only it's not very quiet, or power efficient.

Modding it will be a world of hurt, and it will still be a big, loud, power-hungry pig of a unit that's susceptible to the Red Ring of Death at the drop of a hat.

Give it to a friend/family member and earn mucho brownie points. Sell it on eBay and buy a media centre unit. You can either get a general purpose PC that can have the relevant software installed, and there are now plenty of media centre appliances on the market - some are even in the form of a hard drive docking station, so the convenience factor for upgrading/changing the media storage is very easy.

New Services

[craagz]

Why not create an Xbox rental service for those whose Xbox is out for the RROD repair?

Swap it for an Eee PC

[Joce640k]

(or sell it on eBay and use the cash to buy one...)

"Give it to charity"?

[Joce640k]

With games at 50-60 bucks a pop the actual 'box' part of the XBox is only the beginning of the expense of owning a console.

Re:"Give it to charity"?

[tolan-b]

There are loads of good games on Live. Much as I hate it's DRM-y-ness (! ;) the choice of good fun, and cheap games means I've ended up spending loads more on Live than full games. They're not all simple 2D style stuff either, BF1943 is a great shooter, a really nice new take on BF1942 on a new engine for something like £10 - £15. Only 3 normal maps + 1 aerial (sp?) combat one but they've been enough to keep me busy for ages.

Re:"Give it to charity"?

[flitty]

This late into the generation though, there are hundreds of decent games you can get for less than $10.

Here's a few: Dead Rising, Assassin's Creed, Mirror's Edge, GTA4, Viva Pinata. Yes, many of the 360 games are multi-platform, but the used market is usually much cheaper for consoles, due to the volume of games on the market and no DRM-Resell issues that PC games often come with. If you're paying $60 for anything but release date games, you're doing it wrong. (Even then, day of release games can often be found for sale if preordered from places like Amazon.)

Re:Keep in its box

[interkin3tic]

Eventually every 360 that is actively used will RROD

Every 360 that is used will eventually stop working if given enough time (you have no basis for "rapidly"), but the "red ring of death" is an indicator for a specific hardware malfunction that not every 360 will fall victim to. It's a bit like saying "Eventually, everyone will die of a heart attack." Everyone will die eventually, but not necessarily of a heart attack.

Also, "desperate M$ fanboi"? Seriously? Am I on /. or am I on the gameFAQs boards?

Re:If you've got a big screen, sell it and get a P

[Osty]

Do those Netflix HD streams still look good when the picture is moving...or when your kid gets on YouTube in the other room? I'll believe it when I see comparable picture quality over an average (non-South Korean) connection.

On my 16Mbps cable connection (average speed test over 12Mbps)? Yes, it's rock solid even with multiple youtube or netflix streams going at the same time. On the girlfriend's 3Mbps DSL connection (average speed test 1.5Mbps), not so much. But then I wouldn't expect an HD stream (say 3-5Mbps) to work on her line. 12-16Mbps is the average US cable modem connection these days which most people can get, and with DOCSIS 3 and FiOS available in many areas you can go even higher. Obviously rural or sparsely populated areas may not have as many opportunities.

Whether or not it's a waste of bandwidth is a different question. I've not gone over Comcast's 250GB/mo cap and I haven't had to change my viewing habits to compensate, so at least for me it's not a waste. I obviously wasn't using that bandwidth for anything else. If you have a lower cap or are paying per GB then it could be a waste. (and yeah, I get that "download limit" and "bandwidth" aren't the same thing. But then any time your network connection is idle you're "wasting" available bandwidth so the statement is silly in the first place. I just interpreted it as the less silly "waste of a download limit".)

Uh... you dont need Windows Media Center to stream

[Golbez81]

Not only is the OP wrong, why in the hell did this make the front page of Slashdot? All you need is Windows Media Center to stream to the 360, which to the best of my knowledge, works on every current M$ OS. (Not that I'm a M$ monkey) Also, why on earth would you want to make a 360 (With a whopping 120Gb HD) a stand-alone media PC? LOL Why is this person not getting flamed more for his stupidity making the front page of slashdot?

Will...

[Blazarov]

it blend?

Take 2 machine to watch one video?

[Stuarticus]

Oh is that all? Install and stream over the network in an appropriate format? Why doesn't the damn thing just play the divx files when I connect up a USB hard drive?

That's what I expect a media player/HTPC to do. I'd bet it's be easier with Linux on, but Microsoft have gone out of their way to make the box useless for anything bar playing games for some reason.

I wish I had bought a PS3 instead in retrospect.

Re:Take 2 machine to watch one video?

[arndawg]

Why doesn't the damn thing just play the divx files when I connect up a USB hard drive? .

Cuz ur doing it rong? Seriously. Have you updated your dashboard in the last two years?

Re:Take 2 machine to watch one video?

[Bake]

Assuming the Xbox firmware is up to date, it does play divx files from a USB hard drive.

Re:Take 2 machine to watch one video?

[bigstrat2003]

Microsoft have gone out of their way to make the box useless for anything bar playing games for some reason.

Hardly. It also makes a great interface for playing media files stored on your PC. The fact that you don't want to do that does not negate the fact that it works beautifully.

Personally, I prefer it this way. I, er, "acquire" the media files using my PC, and I have a hell of a lot cheaper storage using internal hard drives than I can get by buying USB hard drives (plus, I already have tons of storage space on my PC, vs a big USB hard drive which I'd have to buy). The fact that I need to have two machines to do it doesn't bother me in the least. Hell, if I built my own media center PC to hook up directly to the TV, I'd still be streaming the files, simply because I already have tons of storage on my main rig.

Re:Take 2 machine to watch one video?

[Stuarticus]

Well, I'd prefer to have a media box that was always on, "acquiring" content for me via a torrent DLer, with access to as much storage as I care to stack on to it.

My main machine is a laptop for practicality. My point is that the 360 could have been a great machine, but they have traded this versatility for increased security (look at how much work has gone into cracking the thing!).

And yes, of course I've updated my dashboard, you may not have noticed, but it is mandatory! I still get "Need to connect to xbox live to find correct codec", "Awwww, Codec not found..." - It's like the classic WMP experience! FFdshow plugin plays it fine on the PC.

Re:Take 2 machine to watch one video?

[VisiX]

It is awesome just how mad and clueless someone can be at the same time. I have an Xbox360 and it actually does the exact thing you are saying it cannot do.

Re:Take 2 machine to watch one video?

[XDirtypunkX]

Actually, you might need to install the optional content pack from the marketplace (it's free). I had to do this to get divx to work.

Hi Uncle Peter

[Muros]

Long time no see! We all miss you loads here, when are you arriving home for Christmas?

Lots of love,
your favourite nephew

I know what you can do with it...

[mjpaci]

Where's that goatse image when you need it...

Not that bad.

[NeverNow]

Honestly, the 360 is not that bad as a standalone media center. It can play the most common video and audio formats, either locally from disc or USB or streaming from a PC (even Linux-based). Sure, it's not homebrew-friendly, you're basically limited to what you're officially allowed to (hacking on the 360 only went as far playing burned games), but it's not true that it's only meant to be an extension for a Windows-based Media Center PC. Also, there's Netflix if you're willing to pay. All in all, when obtained for free it's not a bad deal for a Media Center (forget Web browsing, of course).

Don't Bother - Get XBMC on an ION GPU and ATOM CPU

[mcnazar]

I wouldn't really bother:

1. Xbox360 is VERY noisy to be of any use as a modern media appliance. It might have been cool ten years ago but these days you have several cheaper and QUIETER alternatives.

2. Xbox360 is DRM laden and locked down. You can play a DVD but that is pretty much it. Forget streaming video files from NAS/Network Shares unless you have a media streamer (i.e. PC) or formats that MS approves of.

Shame really as a modded classic xbox with XBMC beats the pants out of Xbox360. We're moving backwards instead of forwards.

Viable alternatives are mainly Atom and nVidia Ion GPU based hardware coming out onto the market.

I've recently acquired an Acer Revo. Its tiny, whisper quiet, comes with a Linux only option (read no $100 MS tax) and thanks to its Ion GPU can render 1080p h264 files whilst utilising 10% of the CPU (this is an Atom we are talking about).

All of this on XBMC on Linux. XBMC also offers a wealth of plugins that allow you to stream music, video from the net (you tube) etc.

Its sad state of affairs that it is the open source projects (i.e. non-funded and understaffed) that are leading the way in home entertainment usability whilst these multi billion multinationals are only concerned with limiting and controlling your experience, i.e. propriety formats, cables, DRM..... this shit never ends.

Re: Media Center

[arndawg]

Mod TORRENT up.... Ripping dvds, djeezus. It's faster to just download an xvid from your favorite torrentsite. 20Mbps is pretty cheap now-adays. And i'm not even from SWEDEN.

Illegal usage

[Ash-Fox]

Use it as a paper weight, Microsoft won't be able to detect this illegal modification!

From the summary

[tepples]

From the summary:

they seemed to have positioned the Xbox as an adjunct to a separate Windows Media Center PC and not as a stand alone unit (which is not what I want).

bigstrat2003 wrote:

Streaming video files from your PC to your 360 is dead easy. [...] set up the media center (can be a bit of a pain, but hardly the epic pain in the ass you claim), install Transcode 360 on your PC

From the Transcode 360 page:

This software is designed to run on Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005.

For one thing, this operating system is no longer available, and it was available only preinstalled on a new PC. The page doesn't say one way or another whether it still works on Windows Vista Home Premium. For another, the original poster doesn't want to stream from a Windows Media Center PC.

Re:From the summary

[bigstrat2003]

For one thing, this operating system is no longer available, and it was available only preinstalled on a new PC. The page doesn't say one way or another whether it still works on Windows Vista Home Premium.

It does, and it works well.

For another, the original poster doesn't want to stream from a Windows Media Center PC.

That's fine, but I wasn't addressing the submitter, I was addressing the parent to my post.

Re:From the summary

[Stuarticus]

No you weren't I don't want to stream from a Windows PC either! That was exactly my point!

Re:From the summary

[bigstrat2003]

You aren't the parent of my original post, dude. Read the thread more carefully.

Re:From the summary

[Chris Mattern]

You aren't the parent of my original post, dude.

You only adopted it!

Re:Keep in its box

[roguetrick]

You should be, considering you replied to such a troll seriously. That makes you much more annoying than the original troll.

Will it blend?

[damn_registrars]

Why nobody has asked this question before is a great cosmic mystery.

Re:If you've got a big screen, sell it and get a P

[neumayr]

If you're after streaming inside your own LAN, ps3mediaserver is the best solution I have found so far. Even though it's originally for the PS3, with which it still works best, its XBox support is workable. It transcodes, so whatever format your media has, it should work.
It can't do online streams though, as far as I know.

Media Center Box

[Snocrash]

I use mine as a media center box more then anything. I use Fuppes as a media server to stream all my music and movies from my Linux box to my TV and Stereo in the living room. Only load a game once every couple of weeks. -Sno

Best gift ever

[Drakkenmensch]

An Xbox 360 is a ticket to the "coolest uncle ever" title if there was ever one, is what I'm thinking.

Re:If you've got a big screen, sell it and get a P

[Rude Turnip]

The Xbox 360 and PS3 are both UPnP/DLNA clients and will stream just fine from a TVersity/Twonky/PlayOn server. Personally, I use PlayOn to stream Hulu, Adult Swim, PBS, CBS, Crackle (Sony's answer to Hulu) and half a dozen other video feeds to my Xbox 360. The 360's built-in Netflix client gets used every day as well. The 360 is used every day as a media hub in the house...we might use it for games on the weekends now and then. We have an AppleTV that then picks up the slack with its built-in video podcast directory and Youtube browser. There are no hiccups even when someone is watching Hulu or Youtube on the desktop PC.

Native full HD media support

[thijsh]

The 360 can play most movies natively! Depending on the encoding even HD movies, i've viewed 720P and 1080I blueray rips over my LAN. The 360-pro can do analog full HD with a component cable. You only need Windows Media Player 11 (or 10 maybe, not sure) and share your movie folder or harddisk to the 360. The 360 will ask for a media update for MPG4/XVID and download it from Xbox Live the first time you play a movie.

And if you insist on some hacking consider this: I added some mediaserver capability to my DD-WRT access point, my USB2 harddisk could be accessed from my 360 over LAN without having the PC running (and the PC used it as a NAS to store the movies). I will not recommend this because it was a lot of effort for a setup that tended to make the AP unstable after streaming or copying too much data. Go with WMP11 or any other media server on a PC instead, there also was some expirimental stuff out there that can provide some streaming video and youtube channels to the xbox.

Check out TVersity for a cool example of a fairly universal media server: http://tversity.com/

Sell the XBOX 360 Pro and buy an old XBOX 1

[thorFlea]

Sell the xbox pro buy the Xbox 1 + mod chip + 500GB hard drive + load XBMC and thats it. pocket the change and consider it a good day....

WDTV

[D-R0C]

Sell it and get a WDTV, a USB hard drive, some popcorn, and some chips and whatever beverage you like. You will be much happier and there will be no effort at all.

Use it as a media viewer

[marmstro]

I have all my music, movies and TV shows on a Linux server running TwonkyMedia which streams them. As long as the audio and video are encoded in a format that the 360 can decode, the 360 can see your TwonkyMedia server and play anything from it. I have a PS3 as well as a 360 Elite and both work excellently as a media center for Twonky. I actually play games on the PS3 as well and am looking to sell my 360.

Re: FUPPES

[k_hokanson]

How the crap did you get FUPPES to work? I've been struggling with it for months. I finally got it to (kind of) stream music, but it ignores everything else.
I found their website and wiki to be almost completely useless (unless they made some major improvements over the summer).

UPnP

[tgibbs]

It's a decent UPnP server, so you can use it to stream video from almost any computer, and it is a good NetFlix streaming server, although you need to shell out for XBox Live in addition to Netflix, which may not be worth it to you.

Perhaps you can get somebody to trade you a used PS3 for it, which is a better media server (but no Netflix!), better support for other operating systems (except for the new Slim) and has a built in web browser.

Re:UPnP

[tgibbs]

You are correct, I meant to write "client"

Use it as a media player

[CokoBWare]

Using TVersity, you can use it as a media player for your HDTV. Very handy.

Re: Media Center

[Hatta]

When I finally get to sit down and actually watch a movie, it isn't uncommon for me to get up in the middle of it and kick off another DVD folder to be converted.

Use a script!

If I went over to my friend's house to actually play a game on his Xbox media center, we would probably have to wait an hour and a half to play something, because he would probably be FTPing a big movie to it at the time!

That's what Samba is for. I never FTP videos to my Xbox. Just play them over the network. Fill the Xbox HDD with games. It's great for emulators.

One variation on a given option.

[dschmit1]

Give it to a favorite niece, nephews get their video games without asking all the time, its the females that need spoon fed video games now.

XBMC

[Krakadoom]

It's entirely possible I'm missing something, but why not just put XBMC on it and be done with it?? http://xbmc.org/

Re: Media Center

[Rob_Ogilvie]

You are my hero.

How has this post not been modded +5 Funny?

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re: FUPPES

[jdbausch]

I guess I'm just awesome? Honestly, I don't recall, I did it months ago, and I don't recall it being problematic.

Trade it for an Apple TV

[EZ Erik]

Then install boxee and XBMC on the apple tv works really good, super easy hack just google it.

Netflix and DLNA

[lethalp1mpslapper]

I use my 360 for Netflix streaming and local media streaming via DLNA more than I do for gaming. The Netflix streaming requires a xbox live gold subscription though. ($50/yr) I use project called Coherence for streaming local media, which also works with PS3. Not as slick as something like boxee or xbmc, but definitely usable.

Re:Never fails...

[squoke]

If you don't have the cash for a $200 purchase, you may have other things you need to be doing besides playing video games.

This thread is useless

[kuzb]

and can be summed up in 3 answers:

1) Give it to charity
2) Sell it
3) Use it as a media center

I honestly thought you people would be more creative than that.

Donate It?

[litewoheat]

Why not just find some disadvantaged kid and give it to him/her?

Re:Why bother Indeed!

[misterduffy]

In short, if you have no interest in gaming then you have an inherent disinterest in the Xbox 360. As a hackable toy it's practically useless, and extremely fulfilling giving the amoebic state of the scene at the moment.

As a result I have to agree wholeheartedly with my man Nick about the original Xbox, even if we're slightly OT in doing so.

As for HD output on a European box, it's 100% possible on a softmodded box with the right software installed and the right cable (£10 off eBay). I realised there is no physical difference between the two models - it's a BIOS thing.

XBMC is a thing of beauty in 720p (1080i's a bit sticky). And contrary to Pro Coffee Drinker's claims that it doesn't have the oomph to play HD content, I'm not sure he's tried - I'm watching Lost in 720p quite nicely thanks. Aside from the slightest hint of perceptible jitter here and there it's a joy to behold.

Perhaps the best thing of all is the Milkdrop visualisations for the music player, which are also rendered in HD - stunning and mesmerising.

Shame the (vast majority of) games are SD, but aside from that it's the perfect Media Centre, and beats the hell out of any off-the-shelf model you could get for £100-300 because it's been in development for so long and its internal storage capabilities are so flexible (if you know how).

Keep it cool

[uncoveror]

Get a cooling fan stand for it if you are going to use it as a media center extender, as that will drive it really hard. Mine went three red lights while I was streaming video from my PC.

Re:XBMC

[snuf23]

Yes. You are missing the fact that XBMC does not run on Xbox 360s. It only worked on original Xbox systems. The software has since been ported to WIndows, Linux and Mac.

Re:Why bother Indeed!

[misterduffy]

Sorry, I of course meant "extremely [or even ultimately] unfulfilling". Why go to all that effort to run SNES9x on an Xbox360 when it works fine on an Xbox?

Re:Never fails...

[DanJ_UK]

That. Earning money requires time and energy; I wish I had the time to sit and play games when I get home while in a contract - I'm usually too tired to do anything other than go straight to bed when I get home from work.

It's not what you want.

[ajegwu]

Sell it. The 360 is made to play games, and none of the games out there seem to pique your interest. It'll do some other stuff, but it doesn't do any of them wonderfully. If you want a cheap yet robust media player set-top box, you want a Popcorn Hour C-200. It only plays media files, and it plays nearly every format under the sun. It won't play video games though.

Re:Never fails...

[sbeckstead]

It's a matter of priorities as well. I may well be able to afford the $400 for the item in question. But having to spend it is another thing entirely. Your budget may vary my overly well compensated friend.

Re: Media Center

[Trogre]

So... your friends Xbox media centre is awesome, but your HTPC is ... better?

Don't risk it.

[Leif Ericson]

I've tried homebrewing my Wii, and have come close to bricking it multiple times. Homebrew is very unstable, because it relies on exploits for Microsoft's mistakes. Once Microsoft patches their firmware, you have to look for another exploit. The chain goes on forever. Sell the Xbox and invest in a Mac.