Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: What's Your Beef With Windows Phone?
First time accepted submitter occasional_dabbler writes "Reviews by 'commentators' such as this one predict certain doom for both Nokia and Microsoft on the basis of the OS being a failure, yet whenever the Lumia handsets are reviewed in the mainstream press they are often highly praised. Windows phone is an immature OS, certainly, but it does pretty much everything you need in a smartphone, is getting better with each update and it is beautiful. I have a Lumia 800, and now I'm used to how it and the WP OS works I find it a painful process to go back to an Android or iPhone for some obscure app not yet supported on WP. WP gave me the same feeling I got when I bought my first iBook, fired up OS X 10.1 and realized I had just been shifted up a decade. So why so serious? What do Slashdotters who have really tried WP think of it?"
poor quality phones
All those f*ckin' tiles drive me nuts! It's like a kindergardener's art project!
it's a desktop everywhere you don't need one.
So there is irrational rabid hate for it.
When Nokia effectively became a Microsoft subsidiary, they killed off all their linux-based cell phones. If that's not enough to enrage an average slashdotter, I don't know what is.
It's about as bad as when automotive bought up streetcar lines to destroy them and replace them with buses.
We can't keep waiting for 'the next version' of windows phone to fix the problems with the OS. It needs the multitasking fixed on major apps, it needs the scrolling bugs fixed. It needs a lot of minor things fixed that have been problems for years now.
People like a phone OS for what it can do, not what the next update promises to bring. Then there is the issue of Apollo even being able to run on current hardware.
Blog
Nice try, Skynet.
I hate everything about Metro, save the typography.
What's my beef? My beef?
I'm a vegetarian you insensitive clod! I only eat apples and blackberrys.
You have to connect to the computer to get updates.
You can't write native code for it. (if I write an app in c++ easily portable to iphone and android, but it will never be portable to windows phone.)
I just know that between Android and iPhone, I've got enough alternatives for my next phone choice to be easy (I'd likely be satisfied with either, and would just try to see which is better between the two). Microsoft hasn't made anything in the last 12 years that I'd want to buy instead of their competition, so I suppose just their reputation is enough to keep me away unless I hear they've come up with something truly revolutionary.
I've learned that they're worthless, so I don't read AC comments anymore.
Not compatible with iTunes App Store content.
How about the fact that getting a Windows phone to work with an exchange server is slightly more painful than shooting yourself in the dick?
A small business that is using a self signed certificate might as well cross all windows phones off of their purchasing options forever. And don't tell me, "Oh they should just get a real certificate." because YOU don't get to make that call and neither do I. The client does and they say no.
iPhone? No Problem. Android? No Problem. Windows Phone? Export certificate from site, email it to yahoo or gmail account FROM a yahoo or gmail account because outlook/exchange refuses to allow you to mail a cert, then import it, reboot the phone, and HOPE that it works. I just got finished dealing with one that didn't work. We renewed the cert, and now the thing is just shitboxed. Can't get it to accept the new cert at all.
How the fuck hard is it to add a "Accept this certificate anyways?" option...
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
Slashdotters are about evenly divided between those who think Windows Phone is rubbish compared to an iPhone, and those who think Windows Phone is rubbish compared to an Android phone. Microsoft has to convince these people that Windows Phone is better than their favourite phone, and that Microsoft is nearly as cool as their favourite company.
Since when did Slashdot start publishing adverts as stories?
Windows phones are lame. I spent good money on one once and it crashed all the time, no way am I risking getting another.
I can do everything on my Linux phone thanks. There is no reason to spend more money on something that does less!
If you start the description of a cosumer os with 'immature' you can bet your behind that consumer wont come close to it. Aside from the fact that microsoft lacks any cool and is generally seen as bully under Ballmer.
Completely irrational, but after having a Windows Mobile phone, I don't want a Windows Phone. I just can't stand the thought of going back to Microsoft for my phone.
x86, oh yes, I'm pro.
I really like mine. My life runs through an Exchange Server, so I picked the Windows Phone for it's Exchange integration. And I gotta say, it's really better than I thought a "smart" phone would be. It's easy to use, I haven't run into any bugs or crashes at all. It's definitely much more streamlined than the Android or Apple phones. Both of those are a real mess of all kinds of different features thrown together with different apps. The Windows Phone does everything I need it to do without any extra "apps", making a really easy-to-use experience. Of course, you can get "apps", but if you're not using it as a toy, there's not much that most business-y people would need that it doesn't come with already. About the only thing I dislike about it is the integration with Bing. Google's local stuff isn't up to date, but Bing's is far worse.
I don't respond to AC's.
So were the junky 4-color IBM PCs that went "beep" instead of producing real music. And the godawful Windows 3.1 of the 90s. Mainstream press opinions mean little to me (especially since they are often bribed to give glowing reviews).
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
I don't care what the OS is but I do care what apps are available. Microsoft is in the unusual position of having a hard time attracting developers to their platform.
As an occasional mobile developer, I have limited resources and develop for where the people are. If I want an audience willing to pay, I would target iOS (never have so far). If I want a broad audience, Android. There really isn't anything compelling about Windows Phone to me.
Microsoft has billions in the bank and I think they could turn this around if they worked out a deal with the carriers to give customers a $10 credit each month for the app store. They could easily afford it because there just aren't that many Windows Phones out there. If those few owners became big spenders though, that could trigger more development on the platform which in turn might attract more users.
the windows phone is that mainstream press exist for the food and liquor at the release events whereas commentators arent getting either. Anyone willing to purchase something like this uses the same mentality as they do when ingesting something from the film industry. avoid the major critics and hit rotten tomatoes or check the reviews somewhere obscure.
you could argue that where apple and google have succeeded is in UI and such. if E3 is any indication, its the fact they extend a few free pints of stella and some extra steak to the bloggers as well.
Good people go to bed earlier.
Because freetards can't acknowledge anything that Microsoft does as good. That's why outside of freetard commentators the phones get good reviews.
Err no, Linux based phones do more for less cash and iphones own the 'oh! Shiny!' market.
There really isn't a place for windows phones in the market, that's why they are doing badly.
Not my list, but here's 121 reasons why you don't want Windows Phone 7.5
There are no atheists when recovering from tape backup.
I remember Maemo 5 met with good reviews also. All three fellow N900 users out there, raise your hands...
Program Intellivision!
The phone is very very nice. I have not found anything I could not do. Try it.. you'll like it.
I used to have a Windows Mobile 6.5 phone, and it was gorgeous (HTC Pure). On the other hand, it also took over ten seconds to answer a call because it was so slow and was even slower if you tried to multitask. Granted, Windows Phone OS has vastly improved since then; however, I still have that bad memory in my head.
"Good, Fast, Cheap: Pick any two" -- RFC 1925
There are several aspects of WP7 that I want to like, and on the surface should provide a better experience than other phone, but none of these things live up to their promise. The hubs are a good example.
From a user interaction point of view, I think the hubs are a really cool idea, and a better way to organize data. But the concept falls flat because there is no way for third parties to create hub "plugins" for other data sources, so you are limited into the ones that come with the system. Because, of this you end up accessing some people/music/pictures/etc through the hubs, and some through individual apps, which really isn't any more convenient than just doing it all through individual apps.
They have a legacy of stink. Even their non-Windows products stink. Why would I want that on a phone? Can I at least enjoy ma phone?
A young friend of mine asked me to photoshop a bluescreen in the Lumia so she could post it on her facebook. Their I thought only old males had a beef against MS.
just because of past experience with both on other platforms.
I want a device that I own and can control what goes on it, what it does, and when it updates. Apple all but openly admits it is a walled-garden, so that's out. Microsoft doesn't control the software available on it's OS' as much, but it still flexes it's muscles too much w.r.t. the standards it uses.
Android isn't perfect, it isn't the best. But if I get a phone that runs android I know I have some measure of control of my device as a consumer. I have no such promises from Apple or Microsoft.
I swear they give me mod points to shut me up.
An untarnished record of myopic stupidity and failed products that are well reviewed, over hyped, offer no decent 3rd party software and are swiftly abandoned?
Despite it's outdated UI, I was a fan of Windows Mobile 6.x because of its openness and the resulting flexibility. In locking down WP7 so much, Windows Phone is essentially a "Microsoft iPhone". If I wanted an iPhone, I would just buy an iPhone.
Redesigning the UI to be touch friendly, while keeping the openness of Windows mobile 6.x would have kept me interested.
Android sucks in its own special ways, but at least I have the flexibility to mold it into the tool that I want.
I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
How many mobile OSes really need to exist? What is the competitive advantage of Windows Phone over Android? What compelling reasons are there for consumers and phone manufacturers leave their existing ecosystems for Windows Phone? Not having any specific problems is not the same as having a legitimate reason to exist.
Since I run both Windows and Linux at home my beef is the fact that their phone interface is spreading to my desktop. It's the same basic problem I have with Gnome 3 and Unity on Ubuntu which made me switch to Xubuntu. I want a Desktop interface for my desktop systems. If I was looking for a tablet or phone interface I'd be happy as a clam right now.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
but by this same logic, we should sift through the toilet bowl after every dump. Sure the last couple dozen times it's been a turd, but maybe tomorrow it will contain diamonds. We can't know unless we check!
Other than the fact that iOS/Android have got a large, possibly majority chunk of the final smartphone market share (including future adopters) already wrapped up, and the fact that the 3 OSs are presently App-incompatible (any predictions for when cross-phone-platform convergence will come? not soon, I'd say) there's nothing to hate in Windows phone.
Good hardware, nicely done OS, just a shortage of people using it and writing apps for it - I think the app problem isn't nearly as big as the fact that most people who are making a smartphone decision at this point will likely follow in their friends' footsteps, rather than making their own objective decision.
Appropriate recent Dilbert.
It's not that Windows Phones are terrible. The Metro UI seems decent for phones and tablets. And if some higher end hardware was available I could see them being interesting.
But here is the problem: They're nothing new - just another smartphone. If Apple had released just a newer, slightly better version of the Blackberry in 2007 they wouldn't have exploded in popularity. I had a Blackberry, then I used an iPhone 3GS and it wasn't just a better Blackberry, it was a whole new class of device and experience. WP7 doesn't make this leap over iPhone or Android, and it seems that in many ways it's still behind iPhones and Android in both hardware and software.
I have an iPhone, what killer feature does WP7 to make me switch? Nothing. And if for some reason I had to pick a non-iPhone I'd immediately be looking at the Galaxy SIII or more likely the HTC One because the hardware is nice and the OS is good and does all the things I want. And I know there'll be support for it since Android's peripheral support is second only to iPhones. I don't know if I've ever seen anything that advertises that it has WP7 support.
Without jumping through hoops, the device I bought is not mine.
Disclaimer 1: I've worked for Nokia for several weeks (why I'm posting anonymously)
Disclaimer 2: I've hated Microsoft and everything they do for decades
I have a Lumia 800 too. I still prefer my iPhone 4S, but (except for a lack of apps) if I had to live with just the Lumia I could. Yes, the hardware specs are lower but it doesn't matter. Like a 2.3 GHz i5 is the same as a 2.4 GHz i5. It's fast even when doing heavy-duty stuff like GPS navigation (plug for Nokia Maps and Nokia Drive)., so what do I care about the CPU?
The hardware is solid. I like that I don't need a case for it.
So for the millions who aren't OS zealots like us, and want to save a few hundred dollars, I have to say the Lumias are an excellent way to get a real, solid smartphone for very little money.
"...Windows phone is an immature OS..."
There. You answered your own question.
The point being: companies should really stop releasing immature products to see if people like them, in order to decide if investing more money on the full product makes sense or not. People won't like a half baked product - people like great products, products that do make a difference.
I've seen this many many times, mostly in software development. A company decides they want to make money out of a product, get something out in a rush, and expect to compete against products that were carefully designed and brought to life, not a moment before they were fully ready.
If I can't get a UNIX shell on it, I don't want it.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I highly doubt the freetards are why everyone buys Android and iPhone. They make up a tiny fraction of cell phone users.
No, my dear troll, the real answer is that no one wants to carry Windows about with them.
Windows isn't for hipsters. Windows isn't for nerds. Windows isn't for grandma.
Windows is for losers, in all of it's incarnations.
That's why Windows has such soft sales figures.
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
I was strongly considering moving toward a new Windows based mobile as I have less than a year left on my current plan, and then for reasons unknown they took all my apps away.
So my friends with iPhones of ancient origin or Android phones with an open way of installing software have their apps and I am punished for being nothing more than a user of Windows Mobile 6.5.
Never again Microsoft, this is Games for Windows Live all over again, clearly you don't know what you're doing.
Gosh. Next you'll be saying they have their own search engine, and not merely throwing up some script kiddie wrapper around Googles.
That's interesting. I've done my share of developing for windows mobile, ios, android and symbian and I think I know what I want from a smartphone: Programmability, IRC and battery life. I have to say that the current windows phone (at least on my Lumia 800) is a pretty neat device: It is the only one of my batch of smartphones that actually lasts me for the whole weekend and I don't have to worry about charging it.
The lack of a hardware keyboard is annoying, but can be overcome with a decent terminal (The SSH client pro) which helps me do the required "fixin' up the servers" while in a pub.
It crashes occasionally (hard boot required about 30% of times when using runkeeper and listening to a podcast) but android crashes more often on the same premises.
All in all, to answer your question: I've really liked my ride with Windows Phone, the only thing that really bugs me is the fact that if I'm running a software, I can't run another and that really happens only with Runkeeper which is supposed to be "always on" when I'm running. 8/10.
... in fact, I don't give a rat's ass about the Windows phone. Too bad about Nokia, though. They should have done something with Linux and Qt.
Windows Mobile 6.5 was a barely usable piece of crap. So bad that I ditched it for Android Gingerbread on my HTC Tilt 2.
That's my main fear: "Windows Explorer Mobile". Yet another incompatible-by-design platform that I'll have to alter my website to make it viewable. I don't even know if there is such a thing, and still the mere thought fills me with dread.
I love my Windows Phone (HTC Arrive). For comparison, I have a personal Android tablet and an iPad I use at work, so I've got a little bit of experience with all of the operating systems. I regularly use my phone for watching Netflix, web-browsing, quick email responses, minor document editing, and minor sys admin work. I think the WP OS is very intuitive and I love that SkyDrive is native. I think the default web browser interface could probably be refined a bit, but I fully intend to stick with this OS as long as Microsoft supports it. My only complaint is that I would like the ability to write Apps for myself without having to go through the WP Marketplace.
As a developer, having to concern myself with iOS, Android, and Mobile Web applications is already too much. The prospect of learning C# or whatever Windows Phone apps are written in, is out of the question. It's hard to see how yet another platform is going to gain any traction at all with app makers. It doesn't matter how great the baked in apps are, third party apps are a huge selling point. If Microsoft was smart they'd create APIs for web apps the way Mozilla's Boot 2 Gecko project, and Chrome OS are doing. Then again, M$ has never been very good at playing nice with open standards.
I don't think it's fair to call Windows OSes on the phone "immature" when there has been various versions before the latest version. There was Windows CE, Windows Mobile, etc. They've had production OSes for phones longer than Android or Apple.
This is the second story this week that feels like a marketing firm paid Slashdot to get a ton of geeks to give them valuable product usage info.
I agree - it looks and works great. To me, it feels like a phone OS designed with the small form-factor in mind, rather than a porting of a "desktop icon" metaphor to a smaller screen. The home screen is designed to expose a number of things you want to do/see without requiring to navigate anywhere or launch an app. Simple things like the way the buttons feel and animate make the experience better. I find it both more enjoyable to use than Android and iPhone, and also snappier (using a Samsung phone, haven't used the Nokia). The main thing it lacks at the moment is the breadth of apps, but it's getting there. My normal phone is Android, but when I'm due for an update I'm likely to switch to WP.
The thing I liked about my iPhone and love about my Android is how I can organize my apps the way that I want to. Everything app laid out sequentially? Sure. Similar apps clustered together on different screens? Sure. A deep hierarchy where everything is nested in folders on a single screen? No prob.
WP7 Metro is decent-looking, but just too restrictive. Let me put stuff in folders!
FWIW, I have the same beef with Windows 8.
Slashdot: come for the pedantry, stay for the condescension.
After seeing a drug dispensing cart at a hospital BSOD, I have no faith in them in anything as critical to me as my phone. It's bad enough to have to keep rebooting my development PC!
I have an LG Quantum. I like it. At the time, it was the only smartphone AT&T had that had a side-slide keyboard(sorry, the Pre keyboard is balls) other than the Pantech Crossfire, which is woefully underpowered and has an awfully small screen, despite looking pretty cool.
I like mine, I like the OS mostly, but I don't like the downgrade in features from WM6 to WP7. You have to pay for an RDP app, you cannot simply change things like backgrounds, custom ringtones, use internet sharing/tethering, etc, and the store lacks good filtering features(not that WM6 had a store, but you could just search the web, download the cab, and install it with no bullshit).
For normal day to day use, it's probably the slickest out there. The desktop, livetiles, the integration with most social media, etc is pretty cool and the interface is very intuitive while being minimalistic and uncluttered.
All in all, I'm happy with my purchase, but I keep my WM6 phone around for when I want to switch sims and load up WMWifiRouter. I would have went with a different smartphone(Android, iOS, WebOS, etc) if any of them were offered through AT&T with a hardware sideslide keyboard, weren't underpowered, and had a moderately sized or bigger screen.
All the signs are there: "Sure it sucks, but it'll be great whenever those nice chaps at my fave venduh finally get around to do the job they should've gotten right the first time, honest" repeated in several flavours.
For some reason you hear that more often from redmondian fanbois, possibly because certain other vendors deliver things that eclectically do things very well, or not at all, and either way it's called a feature. But it's fanboiism all the same.
As to that oh-so-wonderful-somewhere-in-the-future-honest OS of your affection, well, apparently the general public isn't buying it now and the salespeople aren't even willing to sell it, now. You can't really argue with that, fawning reviews in hand or not.
i've had an iphone since 2009
i have thousands of apps for it, even though i don't use them all
there are some really crazy apps for iOS that do things no one imagined a few years ago
iOS is well past cool upgrades and is now on the improving usability every year cycle
Windows Phone is way behind
a lot less app support
its not cheaper
Why switch? what is it going to do better than iOS?
The WP7 OS is decent enough to use. But that's not the total phone experience.
To total phone experience varies a lot from person to person. But people want choice and the WP7 app store is still relatively barren compared to the mountains of refuse in google play or itunes. It's true you don't need the vast majority of the stuff in the competing stores (or even most of what's on the WP7 store) but why pick and OS without whatever app you like or that will likely miss out on it.
WP7 is a dead man walking. You know it. Nokia knows it. Everyone knows. WP8 is the real prize. But if I need a phone today I'm not waiting around. Especially since we have no idea if WP8 will actually be any good to use. And once I get into the non MS ecosystem I'd need to invest money to switch, and need to wait for a contract to expire.
There's no premium WP hardware. There's mid range, and low to mid range. And calling the 900 mid range in an era of quad core phones is being generous. All else being equal if the best phone on the market is a Galaxy SIII why would I buy a single core competitor? Especially if I have 700 or 800 dollars to spend on a phone.
People still think it's 1995 and that windows is a bug riddles mess. Because if don't know how to take care of your computer it will be a trainwreck and you don't learn you live with outdated biases.
If you want simple easy to understand you get an iphone. You pay a premium for a degree of uniformity. If you want a low end smartphone or a high end smartphone you buy android. If you know how to hack your phone and don't mind flashing roms and so on, you get an android. Where does that leave MS in the marketplace? If you have to wait for a *carrier* to approve an update to your phone then you aren't a happy customer. If you don't understand technology an iPhone doesn't have that problem, if you understand how to install a nightly ROM build android phones are at least better than waiting on the carriers. With a windows phone you're stuck waiting on the carrier, which is simply unacceptable, unless you pay the 99 dollar developer licence.
Microsoft is late to this party. Very late. Unless they can pull a magic Xbox integration plan or something awesome that ties into the desktop (your phone can remote desktop right microsoft? Right? ugh...) they have a hard time asking users to switch. My calendaring is all through google now, so I'd have to move that over. I have invested however much money in google's app store for apps I can't easily port over. There aren't any 'killer apps' for WP7 exclusively.
There's a viable strategy there. Microsoft just isn't executing, and they can't rely on momentum to keep them going. That however, could change, and especially in the business environment integration with their corporate products could really help. b
I have been using Windows Phone for a good 6 months now, and I really do feel backward when using people's iPhones. That being said iPhone has the ecosystem that I am envious of, if a friend is playing a game, very often WP doesn't have it (yet.) So that's very frustrating. I think a lot of people just go with the platforms their friends have, the tile system is a bit jarring for those not familiar with it, and it could be improved a lot (sometimes Metro is just -too- simplistic.) However, once you are used to the system, it's a lot more intuitive than iOS. People complain about the tiles, but when using friends phones they have a sea of icons that honestly just hurt my eyes to scroll through. A lot of people think the WP list system is the wrong approach, but tapping on a letter jumps you to the program you want.
WP's biggest flaw is that it is so late to the game, if you walk into an AT&T store, expect to have an iPhone pushed on you, if you walk into a Verizon store, expect an Android device to be pushed on you. Microsoft made the mistake of not getting in bed with one of the major carriers. Google & Verizon/Apple & AT&T have a lot of power over the purchases of potential WP users. I've walked into Verizon stores with the -only- WP device being treated like the step child, and AT&T stores have had WP booths with the phones all powered down. It's pathetic. Old habits die hard. I do think all 3 of the OSes are very good in their own right, but why WP is lagging sort of baffles me, I'd expect it to at least have some interest among youth looking for Xbox Live integration. The Lumia phones are gorgeous, but honestly on the wrong carrier....Verizon should have been the Lumia's focus. AT&T's is pretty saturated with iPhone. Microsoft shot themselves in the foot with their half-assed Kin device on Verizon.
So, my basic answer is carriers, carriers, carriers, even more so than developers.
We like progress.
/ - Nothing follows - /
Help stamp out iliturcy.
10 years is immature?
Just try getting it to use a server with a certificate that doesn't match the server name. You can't; you can't override it. The only trick is to jailbreak the thing. Both Apple and Google's let you override the certificate warnings. This has led some companies (one of which with 1000+ users) to have to buy certificates... for like, the 3 people in the company that use Windows Phone 7. Great, right? But now it's more secure, right? Right?
No regrets, it works quite well. Battery could be better, but seems to be more the phone than the OS. It's a tool, not a toy and I don't game on it - I just use it for work, email etc. Works quite well with Exchange and we were able to ditch BES as that had become a real pig with the last release. Camera works well enough for me, often take pictures rather than take notes. Zune software works fine and sync is a snap on my work and home machine.
I'll go windows phone again for sure; have a number of clients with iphones and it always seems that when they want to do something with their phone, they have to buy an app for it. The few android phones I've looked at seem ok, but there's no incentive for me to go to android over winphone at the moment.
Day to day, it's really pretty good. At home I prefer to use it instead of a laptop 90% of the time. Not many online videos will play on it; that's my biggest beef. Also you basically have to be willing to give up background processes that run indefinitely, which I have not found too limiting, but some people will.
I tried several high-end Android devices before buying a WP7 phone as my first smartphone in early 2012. They were miserable to operate in comparison. The iPhone was alright except for the launcher, but I ended up choosing T-Mobile Prepaid, which meant the iPhone would have been limited to 2G and with no support whatsoever.
I have non-technical friends that love their windows phones. They find the features handy and don't care about the phone being locked down.
I know of no tech savy users that are fans of the phone. This is because their (our?) priorities are different.
Windows phone is not targeted at your average slashdot reader. Infact, most phones are not targeted at your average slashdot reader. This makes sense, as we're a minority of the population and these companies are in the business of making money.
Microsoft copies Apple's idea and makes it difficult to develop apps for your own use.
Why should I pay $99 / year if all the apps that I develop are for own and family use?
I would rather buy a nexus device in the absence of a similar option from Microsoft.
I recently bought a Windows phone, having high hopes and being all excited. Now that less than a month has passed, I can only say that it sucks in any conceivable aspect and I regret falling for the hype. From the UI to features to stability and especially battery life it is just disappointing. Having first-hand experience with this frustrating device, I very much suspect that some of the few positive reviews online are not written by people neutral to the subject to say the least... (ever heard of Microsoft bloggers?) You bet my next phone will be an Android.
I carried a Windows Phone in place of my usual Android device for about 45 days at the start of the year to understand what the experience was like. My take away is that while it is a serviceable OS, it still has many of the shortcoming that the other smartphone platforms have grown out of. Also, it occasionally errs on the side of "pretty graphic design" over usability. I wrote up a full article on my experience here: https://plus.google.com/100566622327534003774/posts/RyT3Ajwd1GX
Quite honestly, I'm fine with most of the WP7 UI. What bothers me is that they set their hardware specs a few years ago. Now all the new phones are stuck with hardware that is way behind the times (i.e. 480 x 800 resolution and single core processors).
Not touching anything microsofty, ever, regardless of technical merits.
If I can support good (android, not saying its perfect) and boycott assholery (microsoft since day 1) why not?
Microsoft has a horrible track record for stability, functionality, memory and CPU usage, and just plain evil. Even today they're bribing chip manufacturers to not run software not certified through them, which costs money, and has so far been used in typical MS fashion to exclude competition, nevermind what they put into Vista and Windows 7 that takes control away from the OWNER, nevermind that Microsoft software tends to do things far worse then any of it's competitors.
My personal experience with Windows Mobile has been attrocious, it crashes, and doing simple things requires WAY too much effort; memory / CPU is a HUGE issue for mobile devices, who already have very limited battery life and processing power.
I actually want it to survive, and become a viable competitor to the current de-facto smartphone platform duopoly. I hope that Microsoft uses its resources to improve the platform and make a serious play for the market.
On the other hand, I don't have a WinPhone, nor would I want one. Why? Mainly poor application support, and no compelling hardware options. iOS has application inertia and Apple's user experience. Android has hardware variety and freedom to customize. WinPhone seems nice enough but just doesn't have any killer features.
Also, it's hard to get over the fact that the default (and so far, only) browser is MSIE. That little e has too many bad associations.
I am pretty sure I've read that WP licensing fees are less than Android in the grand scheme of things. So, that's not at all true.
I've owned all 3, droid, iPhone, and now wp7. I'm biased though, I like wp7 because I can reuse skills I already have and use everyday, to write apps. Personally, I like metro.
They want me back now that I've gone, but what will they do for me once I've returned.
I want to be able to get a command line, and be able to write and run my own apps on it without Microsofts permission.
I also refuse to buy anything that implements DRM.
It's definitely unfinished and rough, but after using it I have a hard time going back iOS and ICS. They still work fine, but they don't really right for me anymore. To some extent they feel like they're working backwards. Both iOS and ICS seem to be more verb-based UI's (you pick the action/app, then pick what you want to perform it on) whereas WP7 seems to be more noun-based (you pick the object, then decide what you want to do with it). On my L900's screen, many of the tiles represent objects of interest (wife, favorite blog, local theater) and the live tiles keep me updated with the status of those objects. Obviously there are verbs (apps) on my start screen as well, but the things that make my start screen interesting and personalized are the live tiles for objects of interest. Switching to iOS or ICS feels oddly suffocating because I feel so cut off from the world, even though the same information is available on those systems it doesn't just flow to me the way it does on WP7. One thing I think a lot of iOS and Android fans may be missing when they complain about the lack of customization is that WP7 does allow extensive customizations, it is just on a different axis than Android's customizations. WP7 encourages you to customize the information flows, not the UI. My WP7 screen is very personalized for me, and this personalization is what I miss when I switch back to iOS and Android. It may look superficially like every other WP7 screen out there, but the information flowing through it is mine, all mine.
The thing is, I know that android is adequate for my needs. WP7 doesn't promise to be any better, and may be worse. Given the cost of a smartphone, I'm going to be a little conservative here.
Maybe MS could do an offer - free replacement with an Android phone if you don't like it. I'd consider taking them up on that.
References?
If your intent was to limit discussion to only those "Slashdotters who have really tried WP", you'd end up with a mostly empty page.
Seriously, though - why would I bother to even try Windows Phone? I've seen the UI, both on the phone and on a friend's Win8 preview, and I think it's both ugly and a step backward in terms of functionality. I'm not going to bother even considering a different phone unless someone offers a compelling argument regarding something it does significantly better than my iPhone or my old Android phone. Just saying "it does xxxx just as well as an iPhone" doesn't give me a reason to switch from an iPhone.
#DeleteChrome
This is only because Microsoft is pulling every dirty trick in the book to make it so. They need the antitrust stick jammed up their asses again....hard.
For a company that has been in the phone/mobile market for nearly 15 years, and a decade longer than both Apple and Google, you just expect them to not be playing catchup with buggy features and lackluster offerings.
The native Maps just recently got an update so it can show non-highway traffic, whereas Google has had that for a couple years now. Google and Apple both benefit from being the cool, new, full-featured OS's whereas the new Windows Phone may not necessarily be embraced by developers(and it hasn't, comparatively), because as MS developers, we know how fickle they can be. Look at any phone work we've already done in the past decade, all gone.
They needed to start with a fresh OS, but they should have done it 5 years ago before developers got in comfy with Android and iPhone.
I'm going back to Android when my contract is up in October.
I hate the GIANT font that doesn't fit on the screen used for titles on screens like the people app.
EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
It's Windows. It's from Micro$oft. This is slash-dot, not backslash-backslash-dot (or in the case of Windows flag wavers, forwardslash-forwardslash-dot).....LOL.
WP has been hacked together to compete with iOS and Android. It forsakes the customisability of Android as it strives to be as "walled" up as iOS while offering less polish, and as opposed to both those OSes it is designed to only support certain outdated hardware (no multi-core, no screen res exceeding 800x480...). All the while suffering from lack of many apps as well as many of the defects of its predecessors and lack of features.
There is also an extensive list of OS limitations titled 101 REASONS NOT TO BUY A WINDOWS PHONE 7.5 going around the blogs and forums. For more insight into each of the claims made and a little history of Windows mobile OSes and where WP Mango fits in also have a look at the discussion further down. Though there is an obvious bias in the original post certain facts mentioned are undeniable.
All the while Microkia goes on saing "just give us more time, just one more chance", first we waited for the Mango devices to surface (which were hardware-wise excellent, if the specs were ignored), now we need to wait for an "all new" WP 8 to show us that the Microsoft way is the right way. Somehow I do have my doubts...
I bought a Lumia 900 in April and I absolutely love it. I'm probably very different from most Slashdotters though, in that I don't rabidly hate anything that comes from Microsoft. I use Windows, I have a live.com mail account, I owned a Zune, I own an Xbox, and I don't have a problem with any of these products and services. I'm also a little different from Slashdotters in that I'm forced to use Linux for my day job, rather than being forced to use Windows, so perhaps that feeds my perception.
But back to windows phone, I suspect the reason I feel so differently about it compared to most Slashdotters is my needs are very different. I don't want to root it, I don't want to hack it, I don't want to tinker with it and mod it; I have plenty of other toys and gadgets I root/hack/mod (including other android devices). I just want a phone that works as advertised and doesn't get in my way. It makes calls (brilliant call quality on the Nokia hardware by the way), takes pictures, connects to all my social networks, connects to all the services I use, and allows me to download apps.
My choice was really down to two: iPhone or Windows Phone. I ultimately chose windows phone because of Office integration, Xbox integration, large screen, and the UI. iOS is nice and all, but it's starting to feel dated and I like the hubs concept in Windows Phone a lot more. With the latest release of iOS they're adding a lot more integration with services, which is something Windows Phone has had for a while now. Further the gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous Lumia hardware made the choice easy. This phone is really stunning, especially with the OLED display. I don't care that it's low resolution, it looks that amazing.
I ultimately didn't choose an android phone because of my experience with them in the past. While I never owned owe for my personal phone, I've used models like the Atrix and various tablets for my work. I found the UI gernally inconsistent and laggy, the apps weren't of the best quality comapred to iOS (I should mention I also own an iPod touch and iPad, and my girlfriend own an iPhone which I've used extensively), and the integration with services I use was lacking. In all, there just wasn't anything that "special" about Android if I didn't want to use it as a development device. The hardware variety is nice, but I also get that in Windows Phone. Actually, I view Windows Phone as sort of a middle ground between the totalitarian iPhone and the free-for-all Android. I don't want either, and that's why I think Windows Phone fits me best.
Microsoft Bob was revolutionary also.
Who says I have to have a specific "beef" with Windows Phone? Microsoft is trying to sell me a product in a market niche that already has two major competitors; it's their job to explain why they are better than iOS and Android. And I just don't see it. Windows Phones aren't as polished as the iPhone, nor do they offer the freedom of Android. And they have far fewer apps available than either.
To the extent I do have an actual problem with Windows Phone (as opposed to just considering it not as good a product as its competitors), it's that Microsoft is insistent on pushing this failed model onto the consumer and even business desktop, despite the loud chorus of people saying "DO NOT WANT."
Having tried them, for me it comes down to the same issue Windows people have raised about non-Windows devices: integration, or lack thereof. Over time I've gotten a lot of stuff tied in to Google's services. Whether you like Google or not, the fact is my stuff's there and my desktop etc. all integrate with it. The Android phone does, the WP7 phone... doesn't, at least not easily. My contacts list, my calendar, maps, voicemail, e-mail, e-books, on-line documents, it's all quickly and easily available on the Android device while on the WP7 device I have to mess around installing third-party stuff and getting the phone to stop trying to use it's default services (which I'm not using) and use the ones I'm actually using instead.
The WP7 phone would probably be superior as a corporate phone, it'll integrate better with the Windows domain and the rest of the corporate stuff. But I don't have that environment, and I want a phone that works with what I do have. WP7 isn't it.
Slow, worst interface for a phone EVER, not as many apps as Android or iPhone, did I mention SLOW?
I'll probably get modded down for this, but the same could be said for Linux, particularly on the desktop. Yet Slashdotters don't hate Linux in spite of all the half-finished applications and constant promises that fixes to long standing bugs are "just around the corner," do they?
Seems a bit hypocritical to complain about about this same issue when it comes to a Microsoft product.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
but it does pretty much everything you need in a smartphone
Blackberries also do pretty much everything you need in a smartphone, but they're tanking as well. This is more about the brand and company, as others have pointed out.
What do Slashdotters who have really tried WP think of it?
Until the Lumia 900, WP7 was running on substandard or run of the mill phones. They just didn't measure up to the top of the line phones from everyone else. And even with the Lumia 900, they're dumping them for $99 in the US, a premium phone sold at the discount rate for middle of the road phones. This doesn't make the brand look good.
As for the OS itself, it is definitely a different and fresh look and feel. The visual elements are appealing but there are some irritating things about it though. Syncing my google calendar to the phone is a bad experience. I can't manually direct the phone to update calendar data, and it usually misses some events. I don't rely on the calendar for complete information. Other small things like the system font being too small and not adjustable, are things that need to be fixed. Overall, not as polished or complete as the other OS's but definitely an improvement over the last MS phone OS, and amazingly; better than Nokia's Symbian OS. (which is is piece of shit, I must add)
It is the best looking phone OS, with some major probs, aside from the immaturity of the OS, you're always wondering if MS will pull some kind of trick to screw you over. You just can't shake the MS borg feeling. They don't help themselves when they treat the independent and small developers like second class citizens, you don't have as much access to the OS as larger companies do. Those are the main probs that I have with WP7. Other than that, it is a solid 4th place, behind RIM/Blackberry's new OS, which is really nice.
Once someone makes a choice about which (phone) OS to use, they invest time in learning how it works and by purchases they've made.
Microsoft was just too late to the party, most of the interested parties had already chosen, and everyone else follows the people they know.
Like the typical left-brained slashdotter, I'm a technologist who values my "geek cred".
And throughout WP7's life (especially early, but still today) you need to defy logic and judgement and rational thinking just a little too much in order to buy a WinPhone. You needed to pretend that missing features weren't important. You needed to suffer lies and contempt regarding updates. You had to ignore all the productivity and fun and relevance that other smartphone owners were enjoying. You had to tolerate a weak ecosystem. You had to apologize for Microsoft's mis-steps.
That's just too much.
Slashdot: come for the pedantry, stay for the condescension.
whenever the Lumia handsets are reviewed in the mainstream press they are often highly praised
I wonder how much money is changing hands to achieve that effect?
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
It's the "Windows" part.
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
I can't develop on it without Windows. Same beef I have with iPhone (although the iPhone has an installed base to make be bother buying a mac).
Android is easy to develop on using pretty much any OS. This is the same reason that PHP and Java have more mindshare than C# and Visual Basic. Devs can run any OS they want and still get work done.
The search button.
I've hit it by accident countless times (Lumia 800, so touch button), and only actually wanted to use it maybe 10 times.
Just because you wilfully chose to ignore all the crimes MS committed, doesn’t mean it’s irrational. It just means you're a dick.
If MS was a human, it would be a multiple-times committed murderer, who always gets out of jail by simply assimilating others, and who at the *first* day where he got free, and off the watch lists, started bribing judges and continuing to try to kill others again.
Fuck you for acting as if that never happened. It makes you just as guilty!
You sound like a classic apologist. The summary of this article already happily states that Windows 7.5 is still a immature OS... version 7.5
You say "it takes a little bit of time to learn". Apologists speak for "it is unintuitive as hell but finally after hours of trying, you managed to get it to turn on".
The entire problem with the MS phones is that the fanboys are trying to win the rest over with the same bullshit they have been trying for a dozen or more versions of MS attempts at a mobile OS. If the bullshit hasn't changed a bit, why should we believe the product has?
Lets review, Windows 7.5, the only mobile OS to be single core only. The only mobile OS to be restricted to a single resolution. The list goes on and on. The only people who like it are MS fanboys, reviews are not positive, at best they are "not as bad as expected". The fact is that MS has been producing phones that cost a premium but just can't compete. You can argue whether quad cores are needed or not but charging the same price for a single core is just not on. iPhone does retina displays, MS stays way way way behind in the pixel race.
It ain't cutting edge and it ain't cheap. So why buy it? Because it is MS? As others have said, MS is a negative brand, people AVOID MS if they can because they hate the moments they can't. There are some that are 100% MS and they like it because it stops them having to learn anything else. But the sales are to low to conclude it is just geek prejudice against MS. The sales figures are so low the opposite might well be true, only those with a prejudice against anything NOT MS are buying it.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
What's wrong with windows 8? This is best illustrated with a picture, (1000 words and all that)
http://imgur.com/nNcMm
Been there, moved on.
Funny that most of you chiming in here haven't even USED Windows Phone in any meaningful length of time. Tell me how much you hate the OS when you've used it for a month or two. I'm confident you'll have changed your mind. There are some major advantages to using this sort of interface and OS paradigm.
Being a die-hard Android fan, I decided usability was a key driver in my upgraded phone purchase. I owned a G1 and an ASUS phone. Well, when I did my research, I chose Windows Phone for usability... I gambled... boy did I ever. I could have bought a Galaxy S 2 but decided to roll the dice on a Samsung Focus. I knew that I had 15 days to return the phone and get a different one if I didn't like the Windows Phone experience. I was certain I was going to return the phone. Well, I still have the Windows Phone after 8 months, and I'm still happy with it.
Maybe people hear microsoft and then think about operating systems that crash and are prone to viruses. Maybe not a fair perception, but I know my dad became anti-MS after repeated virus infections on his Windows computer despite having up to date antivirus. He would complain of endless popup windows and spam ads windows that he couldn't close. I'm sure he was partially responsible by clicking on malware links and maybe even downloading and running malware directly.
I tried walking him through running some malware cleanup tools over the phone, but in the end I ended up sending him a Laptop running Linux that automatically pulls up Google Chrome when he starts up. He's had it for about 6 months now and has been completely happy with it, no more malware. So now he's got a terrible perception of Microsoft and probably wouldn't buy a Microsoft phone (not realizing that the phone OS is completely different than Win XP).
which was running 6.5 was replaced with Android Frodo thanks to the talent and generosity of the folks at xda-developers.com. Granted it was still not the speediest demon, but at least the phone app didn't crash as was typical with MS' garbage. I think they forgot that the device is first and foremost a phone. Just sayin.........
-- L8R, guitardood
The Linux geeks use Android for obvious reasons. The Mac geeks use the iPhone for obvious reasons. The Windows users around here are mostly the Linux geeks and Mac geeks, they just have to use Windows for work or for games or because they run pretty much anything b/c that's what a lot of geeks do.
Considering the Windows phone, from a software philosophy, it's set up to compete more directly with the iPhone than Android, and most of the users around here that would consider one probably already have an iPhone synced up with their various Macs. If the Windows phones are going to make any headway into the market, it certainly won't start with /. geeks. Really, the answer to the question is so basic it kind of demands another question in reply:
"Are you new around here?"
Have they fixed the problem which prevents them from connecting to a wireless network with a non-broadcasting SSID. Thats a killer for lots of people.
I really like the OS and the social network integration is second to none. While it's lacking in apps, many of the major ones are there, but it still needs more developer support if it wants to starting picking up market share. I'd also like to see prices come down. iOS has set a precedent for cheap apps (games from major players and specialized software not included) and Android has most of its users trained into refusing to pay for software at all.
The real deal killer in WP7 for me was the email client. Something as simple as an email with 5 images attached results in an excessive amount of taps. Where iOS and Android display them inline, WP7 takes a different approach in the name of "security".
Using the example of an email with 5 images attached, here's how you view them:
Tap "Show all attachments"
Tap each image to download them
Tap the thumbnail to view it full size
Tap back to go back to the body
Tap the next thumbnail, etc
Total number of taps to view all 5 images on WP7: 15
Total number of taps to view all 5 on iOS (and Android, I believe): 1 (images are displayed inline)
If you go "back" out of your message to the inbox, when you click on that same email, you have to "show all attachments" again (though you don't have to re-download your images)!
On html emails with images, you only have to tap the button to show all images.
Since a WP7 phone I buy today won't be upgradable when WP8 comes out in a few months, why would I buy one now?
That doesn't even go into the question of why would I buy one then either, given that it'll be competing against the iPhone 5 and whatever Samsung brings out next. Virtually the entire market agrees on this. Microsoft and Nokia haven't done a decent job of telling people why it's a better phone.
This isn't an Apple product. People won't buy it just based on the name (though the iPhone also happens to be a pretty good phone). Windows isn't a positive brand, so Microsoft has to sell it. They've failed.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
You can't really claim that, and forget that it's Microsoft's "patent licensing" deals that are causing that to happen.
I've had a WP7 since its release and functionally it does everything I want. the Metro UI makes sense to me on the phone, and I love managed code, but the API exposed to developers is schizophrenic. Take for example audio playback:
I want to write a media player. I can easily play music from my phone's music collection, awesome! But only when my app is running. See, you can't create a new playlist programatically (for "security" reasons), and you can't queue up more than one song, so when your app gets tombstoned, the currently playing track will finish out its remaining time and then your media experience ends.
But wait, new in 7.5 is the BackgroundAudioPlayer that persists when your app is terminated. Awesome! Except that it can't actually read from your media collection. WTF? It can only play streaming audio or songs from your app's private local storage. And no, you can't copy songs from your media collection to your app's local storage, because as we all know, that would be theft. From yourself, or something.
I don't understand how features like this get green-lit in such a half-assed way, but it drives me nuts. I haven't done any Android or iOS development though so I can't compare the experience.
I am the very model of a modern major general!
82. Need to be plugged in to wall charger to sync wirelessly (a funny definition of wireless) [hehehehe]
113. Bing maps need to tap to get voice direction for next turn. [muhahahaha, I imagine the sucker alone in his car]
115. Compass gives wrong reading in the Southern hemisphere due to bad API in the OS. [MUHAHAHA, a first-world compass]
And the list is long. I recon 20% of those are valid for iOS. But the rest is quite epic. Compounded with the lack of apps, I think the OP has his answer...
Additionally, WP is supremely locked down and jailbreaking is not as simple (or, for some phones, impossible) as it is on Android or iOS. This makes a lot of the things we can do in iPhone and Android impossible in WP. For example, it's possible (and very easy) to backup text messages on iPhone and Android. No way to do this on WP at this time of writing and I don't think they get backed up when you sync with Zune. To worsen matters, WP is *still* vulnerable to a two-year old SMS bug that can make a phone completely inoperable (even after a reboot) when it receives a special text message!
Finally, you need to use Zune to sync stuff. I personally hate using a huge software package to sync stuff, and while Zune is pretty nice, it's still a huge step backward from not needing anything at all on Android.
It's not that Windows Phone is bad; it's just that they don't have anything valuable enough for most Android or iPhone users to switch over. It's great for people new to the smartphone world, but that segment of the market has been pretty small for a while now.
I think MS is being victim of what it obliterated its competitors with on the desktop: nobody needs a third wheel. iOS and Android are enough. WinPhone is nice, but not nice enough to warrant its existence: it does what the other 2 do, no more, no less,so why bother with it ? If it weren't for Nokia's solid hardware and paid-for fidelity, Winphone would be history already.
Also, I think veteran smartphone users have reserves of ill-will against MS for the ergonomics catastrophe that was Winphone before 7.x, and for having tried it I find even the current Winphone somewhat clunky (which way do I scroll again ? oh, depends...).
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
Proprietary Bullshit.
~Just as a thing fails if it lacks a kernel, so too it fails if it lacks a skin. ~ Rumi, Discourses
They were the first smartphone for many of us. The HTC blueAngel, the ATT 8525, etc.. They showed us what the portable internet could look like. But you needed a stylus and they never really innovated the OS. We were stuck on clone OS's called pocket PC, Pocket PC 2000, Pocket PC 2002..2003, Windows Mobile 2003, 2003 SE, WM5, WM6, WM6.1, WM6.1.5, WM6.5 WM6.5.5 and hacked WM7. Up to 2010, they still insisted on using that damn start button. We waited for a new versions but were continually let us down with versions still based off Windows CE which is at heart still windows desktop lite. Upgrades were rarely ever available, instead you had to buy a new phone or find the cracked leaks. More importantly, Microsoft appeared to simply not care about aesthetics and simply wanted to force us to believe they were putting a good effort. They released almost no apps for it, they encouraged few to join them, didn't care about video hardware games or user complaints. When Apple became king of the hill in 2007, Microsoft reacted to us that were loyal to them as if we were on crack and were in love with a false God. Balmer said that iphone was a joke and never would make it. We all saw the writing on the wall except Microsoft. Now Microsoft comes up with a new OS, again tied to its desktop and we're supposed to trust them? Who is to say that Microsoft won't simply throw in the towel on smartphones and leave users hanging. AT least Google has proven that they are in this for the long haul. Palm, Microsoft, and Blackberry have a long way to catch up in sales and really haven't don't enough to cause most of us to abandon our new platforms. Iphone gave us the cool multitouch phone with no stylus, Android gave us cool Widgets. Both gave us robust app stores and support their developers. To win me back, Microsoft would have to prove they are in this for the long run. Keep revising the O.S., publicly announce the upgrades and the improvements the EXISTING phones will be getting and be innovative with something. Lately all we hear about when it comes to innovation is Google and Apple. Google has the NFC Near field communications, killer video chips, face unlock. Apple has the cool looking phones, Siri, and integration with googleTV or apple TV. Microsoft, you're up next...
Never has a cellphone awoken me with more soothing sounds than menneen talven Lumia.
yet whenever the Lumia handsets are reviewed in the mainstream press they are often highly praised.
Because ZDNET is generally where these glowing reviews are published and ZDNET is basically owned by Microsoft, and then you get the people like Robert Enderle who will say anything after the check clears.
I thought this was obvious for the past *tries to remember* 20 years. Yes, I know that predates the actual ZDNET, but I'm including Ziff-Davis publishing.
--
BMO
I have made them completely iIrrelevant in my life and prefer it that way. That is not to say I never use a MS product it is just that I am in no way dependent on anything they produce.
Got Code?
Submitter dismisses Tomi Ahonen as a 'commentator' (the quotes betray his disdain), but Tomi's an ex-Nokia guy with far more mobile experience and smarts than 99% of us. For what it's worth, Forbes recently picked him and his blog as a top influencer in the mobile industry.
Opinions are like assholes -- we all have one. But when your predictions are consistently correct for a very long time, this makes you one smart asshole -- and that's what Tomi is ;).
Slashdot: come for the pedantry, stay for the condescension.
If the iPhone didn't exist, I might very well be interested in Windows Phone. I think it's an interesting UI and has a lot going for it. However, I am VERY happy with my iPhone. There's nothing that Windows Phone does that makes me interested in looking seriously at it. A brand new product has to be an order of magnitude better than what someone is already using to make it worth the hassle of making a change. Even if I were to say that Windows Phone is the best platform out there (which I don't believe), it still wouldn't be MUCH better. For people already entrenched in the iOS world, I see nothing that Windows Phone brings to make us interested in switching. (And people who are attracted to Android are attracted to it for reasons that make Windows Phone antithetical to what they want anyway.) I just don't see who Windows Phone is that much better for. I have only one friend who uses the platform. He loves it, but the vast majority of my other friends are happy iPhone users (with a smattering of Android users in the bunch). Other than people giving up BlackBerry, it's hard to see what the legitimate target market is for Windows Phone. Most new smartphone users are going to either go with the perceive leading brand (iPhone, regardless of what others think) OR the mass market brand, Android, which they're going to see the most choices for. Microsoft's strategy isn't adding up in the current smartphone market, IMO.
This is exactly what someone would come up with as some kind of "challenge" where the outcome is so obviously biased.
In none of these videos the speed of any smartphone or operating system is on the test. It is the speed of the individual people using their phones. I tried some of these challenges, like a local search for a restaurant. After a bit of practice I could get an answer on my 3 year old and slow smartphone after 6 seconds. From those 6 seconds I spend about 1 second waiting for my phone, the rest is the network connection and my typing speed.
So any improvement on the hardware or software side can only influence the 1 second. Other than that the phone has to guess what I think to prevent the slow typing or speech recognition part.
My first try took 20 seconds as I missed a few shortcuts and this is how you can beat almost everybody by claiming to have a faster phone when you just know exactly what to touch/type.
i loved my iPhone and stood in line for all of them until the 4s. i run a large healthcare IT dept that has allowed staff to choose their own phones, rather than standardizing on one in particular. everyone with an iPhone loves it. everyone with an android HATES it with a passion (im serious about this - i get comments all the time about wanting to thrown it of a cliff!), and the growing # of users with WP are loving their phones the most.
personally, i switched from an iPhone 4 to a WP Samsung Focus and was hooked. i recently upgraded to the newer Nokia Lumia 900 and am even more in love with my phone then when i got my first iPhone. imho, anyone who hates WP has not given it a fair shake. it is ahead of the game in every aspect, EXCEPT for not having as many apps as the iPhone. however, MS has done a great job of getting the most popular apps on the Marketplace quickly - so most of them are there. it is not an issue for us anymore.
i totally understand the complaints about Windows Mobile - it sucked royally! but WP is a big breakthrough. try it out - you will see what i am talking about. be prepared to fall in love with your phone again. oh any, btw, with Windows 8 coming out, the new tablets, and XBox - ALL sharing the same experience (PC, tablet, console, TV, phone) - this story is just going to get better and better over the next several years.
like it or not, MS has its sexy back!
I do not hate Windows phones. It does seem Nokia is doing a huge push to get rejected iphone apps onto the windows phone platform. Developers ought to at least look at it. I think having a notification system is very important, and tiles are one way to do it.
However, I like being able to run any app I want to. Can Microsoft add that feature?
Many of the positive reviews of Windows Phone give the impression of being paid for by someone.
Personally, I had a WP7 phone for a month, before swapping it for an Android phone (first time I have ever done this on a contract). I just didn't like the interface, the hangs and glitches, or the lack of software.
WP7 is a sinking ship, with little to offer users.
http://slashdot.org/~occasional_dabbler
Seems that occasional_dabbler never posted any message or comment about anything so far. Yet feels compelled to submit a positive story about Nokia/Windows phone on the day that Nokia announced laying off 10,000 people. This is after Nokia CEO admits that Windows phones are not selling. May be occasional_dabbler works for Microsoft or Nokia, perhaps?
So a high-numbered user who has never commented on a single story posts exactly one story submission about how a widely ignored niche platform is much better than the competition, has it accepted, then doesn't bother to come back and reply to it. And that story contains gems like:
as though Windows Phone is the app market leader and those toy Android and iPhone systems just don't have the same broad application base.
Right.
That seems perfectly legitimate.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
You shouldn't be asking me why I don't switch, you should be asking what is so compelling about WP7 (which has such a poor app ecosystem) that is worth trading out IOS or Android?
The thing that makes Windows Phone a no-go for me is that they failed to duplicate what is (arguably) the biggest coup that Apple pulled off with the iPhone: taking the carrier out of the picture for updates. If I buy an iPhone, I can be reasonably sure that I'm going to *reliably* get 2-3 years of updates, fixes, and new functionality.
With Windows Phone (and Android, for that matter), I have no idea if my phone will ever get an update...it all depends on the whim of your carrier.
I have a Samsung Focus (1st gen hardware) Immediately previous to this I had an HD2 (WinMobile) and before that a Blackberry 8830.
Loved my blackberry, but only for the keyboard (browser/media/screen etc were passable or worse)
Hated the HD2 because of Win Mobile, tried a custom Android ROM on it...meh...Take it or leave it
With the Focus, I find that I still miss the physical keyboard, but I have no problem doing whatever I need to with the phone...its fast enough, its really easy to use, it has a nice design esthetic, its slim enough...I like it. I liked it from the first 2 days playing with it...I have grown to love the OS, most especially for its ease of use.
It's a productive, capable, fast phone that does a lot of things that make me go wow, even now into my second year with it.
Never had an iPhone, do have an Ipod touch and an iPad...so tough to compare, but that's my two cents. It
How can you say Windows phone is an immature os? It's been around since the early pda's. Microsoft was one of the first companies to jump on board with a mobile os that was exactly like it's pc os. The only thing that's changed is the interface and the name. Sure, it's gotten better, but I don't think that immature is the right word to describe it. Microsoft should be ten years ahead of Android and iOs by now. I think the fact that they aren't speaks volumes about the product.
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There is no beef, Microsoft has screwed me and industry so many times over that sorry, but no thanks. Even that new gui makes no sense (I know, it's propably meant for other type of users, but still).
Problem with Microsoft in mobile market that there is already one "Good Enough" king, and that's Android. Lot of stuff indicates that Microsoft don't know how to market this - going after Apple or Android crowd (their overlap, but barerly). For Apple they are lacking offers for rest of the set (no tablets, no sensible integration, no "rebel/cool" factor). For Android, well, they are cheap, and people want only little from touch screen phone, not power horse Nokia offers with Microsoft.
Even there, Nokia did quite stupid and interesting move, selling N9 (with custom MeeGo) like hot cakes in East Europe and other parts of the world. People already *have* proper Nokia new wave smartphone. Why they would have to buy Microsoft one?
What makes me sad that this desperate attempt of entering market will take Nokia's life. Microsoft has destroyed Symbian (huge industry and user base), MeeGo (very potential user base), and pratically best phone hardware producer in the world in one move.
user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
I traded in my Samsung Galaxy S 2 for the HTC Radar Windows Phone and it was the best thing I have done. The Windows phone is easy to use, the tiles can be arranged to my needs and it just works. It is too bad that the phone is associated with the Windows OS and of all the Microsoft product I have used in the past the Windows Phone OS is the one thing that Microsoft seems to have got right.
And since Microsoft is probably the most hated software company on the planet, I want nothing to do with any of their products. With a Windows phone, users can expect to be locked out when they attempt to modify it, locked in when it comes to their data, vulnerable when it comes to security threats and spied upon whenever a telco may find it convenient.
My opinion in this is, of course, my own and it may sound paranoid and/or overly opinionated to some, but after several decades of experience I've comes to expect the worst from this company. Clearly, profit has always been far more important to them than customer satisfaction, i.e. their stockholders way more important than their stakeholders. Microsoft's secret to success has always been strongly dependent on its ability to limit consumer choice to its products only -- not its ability to make better products. Luckily, nowadays we do have a choice, so as long as that's the case I will do my best to avoid all of their products.
Released in 2010, and in 2012 an obvious fan (the article submitter) calls it immature. I think that summarises it nicely.
I have a friend who works as a cell phone store manager. She was visited by the local Nokia rep who came to instruct the staff on how to sell their Windows phones. The general gist was the phones are not selling well because of the salespeople, even though their biggest piece of advice was to not tell the customer it was a Windows phone until after trying it for a few minutes.
Anyways...
When the rep finished to go home, he left behind some swag. Pretty normal, right? Pens, notepads, etc...? Nope. Nokia Lumia dental floss, Nokia Lumia hand sanitizer, and Nokia Lumia stain remover. I guess they must think the poor sales are due to unhygienic salespeople.
I am on Verizon, so I am stuck with a single model, the HTC Trophy. I love it, and my only complaint I ever have about it is this: Everywhere I look, apps are written for the more successful iPhone and Android platforms. It seems that except where Microsoft has ponied up some cash for the effort, the more popular apps don't get ported to it.
-- Who am I? How did I get here? My God, what have I done?!
In January I tried to develop an app for WP. It was 90% done and I went to register with MS as a phone app developer. I went to the website and clicked a link, then clicked a link, then clicked a link, then clicked a link, and ended up back at the start page. Eventually I wrote to there customer support and amazingly got a personal email back where he tried to walk me through the process. Same problem: "we are still working out some kinks". Perhaps it is because I'm in Canada.
A few weeks later I go back to the site and try again. This time I get past the looping and get to the part where I should give them my credit card information. But alas, doesn't accept a Canadian postal code.
And that was the 2nd big fail for trying to make a Windows phone app. The first fail was in 2006 when I was foolish swept up in the .net compact propaganda.
It won't happen again. It is just a shame I spent so much time writing C# code for that which will never see the light of day.
I have MANY phones. I am a TRUE mobile developer. iOS, Android, BB, WP7, PHoneGap, Mobile Web, etc.
I like WP7. I do notice a few things wrong. Screen at a time is the GREATEST thing that iOS and Android do, the concept of showing just one screen's worth of icons at a time. I have 112 or so apps for my windows phone. I keep scrolling past IMDB and Foursquare right to the bottom. Lame.
The vast majority of complaints about any mobile platform are pretty much opinion related, and many times related directly to the perception of the company creating the product. "Apple charges to much so they must be ripping me off", "MS is out of touch so the phone must suck".
What it ALL comes down to is sales people and marketing. "What iPhone doesn't Droid does". Some of those things you don't really want your phone doing. MS has not done a great job of illustrating the advantages or disadvantages of it's OS over competitors. AND when someone walks into ANY cell phone carrier store, the FIRST thing the sales people talk about is Android.
Lets be honest. You can talk anybody without a brain into anything.
As an app developer I understand apple's simple philosophy: Spend money in iTunes. While their rules can be a bit annoying they all stem from that simple need. Whereas Microsoft products have a slightly different philosophy: Use MS Enterprise products. While the philosophies may not seem wildly different the key is in the surface area of the problem. Microsoft has a large number of products. Thus things like .Net has too many cooks from too many parts of MS all trying to get their part in your face. I also sense that there are power struggles from each of the different departments at MS winning and losing power resulting in an ever shifting set of priorities.
.Net (or whatever has replaced it by now) and then having each piece of integration optional including in the IDE. If I am not using SQL in my project then it should completely vanish from the IDE. Microsoft seems to also vary from hand holding to slaps across the head. The make MFC then they create C# as some kind of answer to Java. Then when the C++ people fell left out they create managed C++ now they have something that starts with a W but I won't learn any of it. Why? Because I have a strong sense with Apple that Objective-C (which I don't like) and its freedom to use as much C and C++ as you pretty well like isn't going anywhere. I am willing to bet that iOS 19 will still have NSObject.
I am not an Enterprise developer and thus for me all the outlook/sharepoint/MSSQL integration is bloat and baggage. If they were to try and win me over it would be by cutting all MS Enterprise integration out of
With MS I suspect that none of the code written for today's phones will hardly be worth the effort to port it to two versions from now. Some new group will have taken over and everything will be DirectX or Lua or whatever whim comes over them. Maybe Microsoft will come up with a NoSQL database and when sales aren't all that great they will tie a whole language in with it. I just don't know and thus can't be bothered to make enough commitment to MS to even look over what today's product offering is. The only reason I ever use MS programming products is to make Windows versions of a desktop app. Hello QT.
I've heard the comment repeated many times that WP is missing apps. I can think of one or two (Pandora for example...) but would anyone care to list the important apps aren't on WP?
Windows is for losers, in all of it's incarnations.
Hey kid, your mom, called. She'd like you to come upstairs to take out the trash.
I don't respond to AC's.
Windows phones came in too late. I had a Windows 6 phone before and I had email and internet and I was googling things anytime I wanted when people didn't even understand how you can do that while driving in the middle of nowhere. And then the iPhone came out and pretty much everybody (with an AT&T subscription) had access to all this stuff. My wife got an iPhone and was very happy with it. Then I wanted to upgrade my small screen phone to a full size screen and apps and all, but I didn't want the iPhone, the same phone as my wife, I wanted something different, so an Adroid 2.2 Froyo Samsung Galaxy was my best choice. I got into Android and apps and all and when Windows phone came out I upgraded to Galaxy 2, since it was a better phone and a lot of apps I was used to and a 2.3 Gingerbread vs some new OS that I didn't like. I still don't like the home screen, I have friends who miss most of the Facebook posts because they use the home tile instead of the actual app. Not sure what it took MS so long to come up with a phone, but that's when they lost the race, everybody was either in the iPhone or Android bandwagon and no one wanted to go back.
If crapple had their say, all guitars would only have 1 string because the others would be too hard to use.
Single menu is the perfect example here. It is 100% pure form over function. All it buys is an unadorned display pane. It does this at the cost of always making the menu bar take up the maximum possible space and always positioning it away from where your focus, and usually your cursor, are.
A pretty good analogy to WP7 maybe?
Please turn in your slashdot card. You are not a nerd if you don't know Fitt's Law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts's_law
Fitt's laws 100% contradicts your sadly uniformed intuition
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
I've had a WinPhone since day 1, and I love it. It is tremendously polished (on par with iOS and better than Android), with lots of nice subtleties to it. It is extremely easy to do whatever task I want quickly, and it just pleasing to look at. Hell, even the search page is beautiful. I take it for what it is, and that is more than enough for me. YMMV
If I can instantly use the phone for basic things when a friend hands me theirs I am sold on it. iOS and Android both have this property. Windows and BBOS don't so I would never like them and buy them to give them a chance. First impressions are everything when very few of the samples work at the store.
Single menu is the perfect example here. It is 100% pure form over function. All it buys is an unadorned display pane.
To the contrary, a menu per window means a MENU PER WINDOW. It doesn't mean "an" unadorned display pane, it means twenty or thirty windows that do not have 10-20 pixels of extra space hiding that which lays beneath!!!
Especially if you have any ability to interact with windows without having to bring them to the foreground, menus per window are the death of a thousand cuts. There could be nothing less functional than crowding out your screen with something you cannot interact with until you bring the whole window to the foreground.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Troll harder.
I have an iPhone 4S, it has decent specs, decent software, Siri, and is fully integrated with the rest of my Apple ecosystem (a 3rd generation iPad and a 15" high-end late-2011 MacBook Pro). Why would I waste money on an overpriced product with specs from 2009 that doesn't offer me anything like this? I could understand wasting that kind of money on an N9, and I have seriously considered purchasing one, but that's because it has the unique property of being a true Linux phone for my nerd side (and not the butchered crap from Google). For serious stuff, however, the Apple ecosystem is the closest thing I can think of to my definition of perfection, thus I would never consider anything other than an iPhone as my main phone.
I have had a Windows 6 phone and a Windows 7 phone. Windows 6 was basically a short screen version of Windows XP. One reason I had for sticking with Windows phones was their interoperability with their other products (such as MSSQL, IIS, Exchange, etc) and the other products previous versions. However, Windows 7 phones won't interact properly with certain older email servers at least without a patch to the phone.
And in my case, AT&T won't roll that patch out. In theory, this means I might have a beef with AT&T but I'd think that Microsoft would put better compatibility software from the beginning.
Next time, I'll probably go with an iPhone since I already know they work and it'll be easier on trying to track down accessories.
Not only is the platform not as open as Nokia's Maemo, or Meego/Harmattan, it actively antagonizes the developer and end user in favor of some shiny device flogged by a carrier.
I'd rather buy another N900 or rework an N9 to use a keyboard than even consider the Nokia Whorephones.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
I spend 350 bucks upgrading from my iPhone 4 to a Samsung Focus in Feb 2011 amid all the iPhone funerals and campaigns. I expected to at least be treated well as a customer when their platform was new. It was a cheap plasticky piece of crap.
After repeatedly being pissed off by a totally disconnected-from-reality windows phone team, I spent another 500 bucks moving back to an iPhone 4S. The choice was simple. My 1st generation Focus was never the device they intended it to be - therefore I would have to pay to break my contract anyway. At that point it was the safest bet to move to 4S given that nothing was forthcoming from Nokia or Microsoft.
They had one shot at credibility and Microsoft wasted it on a shitty device. All their screams and protestations fall on deaf ears now. Unless I see something that gives me $350 dollars worth of value MORE than the iPhone at the same price, I'm pretty much pissed.
What's annoying is that there really are important features missing and the company fails to even acknowledge them. Where all that PR money should be focussed on delivering a cascade of updates to put competitors to shame, instead I get a bunch of people telling me I don't need "features" and that asking for transit direction in maps is simply my mistaken perception of an "app model" vs. flat-large-icon-based app model. Apparently once I get used to seeing everyone's Facebook updates in a flat large area of the screen, I wouldn't care any longer about transit directions or good yelp recommendations.
Is it surprising people have no confidence?
(Before anyone responds either way let me cover both bases of arguments I sense coming out)
1. If Windows Phone is already successful and I'm an asshole apple fanboy who doesn't appreciate the best-new-UI-on-earth that's fresh at 2-years-old already, this article is pointless. So tell the original poster that there is no beef with Windows Phone and it's all great.
2. If something's "coming soon", then ask me when it's here. I can assure you I won't have any beef then. I'll happily buy the phone and use it until I find something better or it falls into my sink.
Regardless of whether the actual usage experience is good or bad, the minority market share puts Windows Phone users at a disadvantage when it comes to accessories. I have seen plenty of reasonably-priced ( under $140) aftermarket car stereos that are speccd. to be iPhone compatible and even can control apps like Pandora through their front bezel controls. I haven't really seen any that support WinPhone7 or any nightstand clock radios that can wake you up playing mp3s off a WinPhone7.
It's difficult to just magically have this kind of third-party ecosystem materialize. Definitely a chicken-and-egg situation... Not one that I am eager to be a part of.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Why? Simple. Misro$oft is like Typhoid Mary. She was let out of quarantine on her word she would never again work in food service. Years later, they found out that shortly after being released, she went right back to working in kitchens and hotels. They have made their money for decades producing inferior goods, leveraging their dominance in one area to achieve dominance in others, using illegal means to squash competition despite offering a lesser product, at a higher price.
They have already done incalculable damage to the computer and software industries, destroying their betters through back-door dirty deals and strong-arm tactics, buying politicians, and campaigns of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. They stole very nearly every good idea they'd ever had, from hoodwinking Seatlesoft into selling them the Quick and Dirty Operating System (QDOS) that became M$-DOS, itself a rip-off of CP/M... and the interface of WinDOS itself, to Internet Exploiter, to the "Zoon" or whatever, and now they want to fuck up the phone market, too, because they've realized there's money to be made there, and they still have some leverage they can exploit, in the name-recognition of their crappy, kludgy, dodgy "Windows" platform.
Happily, they're so late to the party that hopefully, they have almost no chance at all of fucking that up too. No matter whether it's a superior product, (which it almost certainly isn't, they don't have the talent for that; they've proven that over years and years, time and again, they can't compete on a level playing field,) it'll be like the "Zoom" or whatever that crappy, ugly little MP3 player was called... a few idiots will buy them, but mostly people will look at Misro$oft's latest turd like it's an ugly bit of roadkill zoomed by at 70 miles per hour. They'll think "ugh... was that a dead dog or a splattered cat?"
The more money people foolishly give to Misro$oft, the more they harm themselves, because the company is and has always been pure evil. If they could have figured out a way to make money boiling down people's dead grandparents for gelatin, you know they'd have done it. There is no level to which they will not sink. To add insult to injury, co-founder and former chairman, Satan's apprentice Bill Gates now thinks he can use his ill-gotten gains from decades at the helm- and as majority owner of- the Evil Empire of Redmond to BUY people's love and good will, by breaking off bits of chump-change here and there from his personal fortune of stolen wealth, to end his time on earth with everyone loving him for his philanthropy. Well Bill, some people remember, (and I hope in the end all will,) that the good will you're trying to buy, you're trying to buy with blood-money, stolen wealth that rightly belonged in the coffers of all the companies you crushed with your Gestapo tactics, the BSA, and all the politicians who wouldn't do to your evil company what the very same government once did to Ma' Bell and Standard Oil, back when it had some semblance of integrity and balls.
Well, if people forget who he was and what he did, and come to think of him as good, he will have stolen that, the good-will, too, since he's buying it with money that doesn't really belong to him, in a sense of justice and fairness. But I think Bill would be the first to tell you, standing there with his pockets full of other people's money, that possession is nine tenths of the law. Fuck him, fuck Misro$oft, fuck "Secure Boot", and fuck "Windows Phone".
And that's, ladies and gentlemen, why I hate Windows Phone. I will use tin cans and string before I use that piece of evil shit, even if it were the best phone ever produced. Even if it was the ONLY phone in existence. My TCAS phone system does not require an "OS", thank you very much.
Misro$oft. Shit.
I really like my Lumia 800 (had it since nov/dec 2011), it's the best phone UI I've used (I've used BB, iOS, Android). The only downside: it needs Zune and won't work well with Linux (yet).
I just find that its like a crappy Iphone and as an Android user I love to have options like changing the crappy default keyboard where winmo locks you down.
My biggest beef with my Windows phone is that I cannot return it for a refund.
Those who can do. Those who can't sue.
I remember when Windows Vista was released all the major press (and PC magazines) printed their usual reviews giving it something like 9 out of 10 and rating it as superior to Windows XP. As they've done with more or less every release of Windows (even ME). When Windows 7 came out those same magazines were quick to praise it and at the same time make very negative comments about how bad Vistal was, the same OS they praised just a year or two ago. The reality seems to be that large amounts of the mainstream press generate good reviews of Microsoft software regardless of whether it's actually any good.
For my sins I've used Windows for many year (since the days of Windows 3.0). I personally think that when compared with competition, all versions of Windows were actually pretty dreadful prior to XP. At the consumer level, no memory protection was present in the OS until Windows XP. That meant a single badly written program or driver could write over another programs memory causing seemingly random crashes and lost work and when it crashed it was usually that the whole OS would go or become unstable, not a single application. As a developer a single mistake could leave you having to reboot your PC, wait minutes for it to re-load, re-compile your code and try again. This alone was what made me switch to Unix sytems were a coding mistake (which I think all developers make from time to time) wouldn't bring down the entire OS and all applications (editor included). Yet magazines continued to heap praise on the likes of Windows 95, 98 and ME. It is only really when XP came out I felt Micorosoft had released a version of Windows for the consumer that mostly worked most of the time (yes the odd BSOD and hang up, but no longer something to endure every few hours), which is probably why so many are still running it today, more than 10 years after it was released.
Yet all the press reviews of WIndows 98, ME etc would cover things like enhanced USB support, larger disk support but ignore the fact it was nearly impossible to a days work without rebooting your PC at least once, especially if running more than one application. As a user you just had to get in the habit to save every few minutes to minimise lost work. In a similar vein, most magazines give every version of Internet Explorer a good review. Certainly they did with IE6 whilst now they criticise it for how bad it was and what a dreadful legacy it has left - but why didn't the reviews say so at the time?
If m$ wants the truth, then they'll have to ask someone that has nothing to lose by telling the truth.
If you replaced MS with Palm, you would have the same story. Every review of WebOS was glowing but the phones just didn't sell. This story plays out so many times, I just chalk it up to people are sheep and run with the leader.
That said, MS needs to get their act together with their stores. The one that opened recently here has staff that are unhelpful, not knowledgeable about their or others products, and come off as downright rude. Now that they've been open for a month I see it mostly empty while the Apple store in the same mall is always packed.
I came to do the MS challenge with my Pre 3 and asked if, after I picked from one of their challenges, they would pick from one of mine they ganged up and edged me out of the store.
...doesn't lead one to even want to try it.
MS has proven for well over a decade that they have no idea how to build a useful portable device. I've tried one of every iteration except this latest, and even owned a few over the years, and had nothing but disdain for the entire experience. My first HP Jornada lasted 3 days before I had my boss return it. I kept my Palm.
I finally gave in and tried again with the Tilt upon a friend's recommendation, and eventually backed over it out of spite.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, three times, four times, you're on your own.
I want nothing to do with it.
I don't like Windows Phone because it isn't made by the wonderful companies of Google or Apple.
-A.C.
Really, did this needed to be said......
... if you'd give me a phone to try out. Based on past Microsoft performance, I wouldn't pay to test-drive their products, but if someone were to give me one to try, I'd do my best to give a minimal-bias evaluation. Even Win7 has paying customers as beta-testers (We'd like you to submit the error log to Microsoft...) because Microsoft doesn't bother to do it; I won't pay for the 'privilege' of beta-testing to make a few billionaires richer by not financing their own testing.
Quite frankly, every Android phone I've had has sucked. I've had cheap ones and expensive ones. I've set customers up with Androids. Nobody who really used their phone was happy with it. I REALLY wanted to love android, but no matter how much you spend on your android phone, there's always a problem with it. Random battery drain, doesn't accept your typing input (type and nothing happens - on a Galaxy SII with keyboard!!!), 5 second delay between pushing a number on the dialer and it responding, hitting the answer button when someone calls and nothing happens...
Even when you flash the phone with a custom rom, you never know you're going to get. Cyanogen Mod is pretty, but it actually makes some phones slower and buggier.
iPhones are simply better at being a phone, which counts for a lot. Even then, there's lots of little stuff that bugs me (itunes, can't click to add text message sender to contacts, glass breaks when you look at it funny...), never mind the lock-down. iPhones are currently my recommended phone, but I'd love to find something... not apple.
I got our verizon rep to let me try an HTC Trophy for a week, and I really liked it. Yeah, the storage was limited, and the app store sucks. The Nokia's don't even have a front-facing camera for Skype (the HTC's do). The thing is, it does exactly what you want a phone to do. It makes calls, checks your email, ties in with facebook and gmail... It was great. It sounds as though developers have a problem with it, and there are probably more issues with it than what I saw in the 1-week period, but if I had to switch to a windows phone today, I'd be happy to do so.
Anyone remember WinCE the actual name of the product was wince. Anyway I remember Windows Mobile and basically it boils down to fool me one shame on you fool me twice shame on me.
I have a Windows Phone device (Samsung Omnia 7, great OLED display, durable, has lasted me just fine over a year including me taking it on a long cycling trip to use it for phoning and maps) and it works fine, plus I can write my own code for it using the .NET Framework in C# or VB, as I prefer, and I happen to like the .NET Framework's structure a lot. I don't get what all the anti-WP stuff here is for. Nothing against 'brands' like Linux flavors and Android, though Apple rubs me the wrong way for a few reasons, the main being people's apparent belief that it's the best available when they can't cite data to support that. Also, not crazy about OS aspects of MacOS and iOS, though that's no deal-stopper. Some of the WP features are pretty nice and seem to be designed for efficiency. If it gets its chance, you may be surprised...remember when Netscape, Lotus, and Borland were on top and how that eventually played out. Not that I have unwavering confidence in all of Steve Ballmer's decisions, mind you.
Why would you care about Windows marketplace on a WinMo phone? They all have always allowed installing arbitrary apps outside of any locked-down store - in fact, it was the primary distribution model for them.
My problem with Windows Phone is the same problem I have with iOS; it's not FOSS software. I'm not Stallman, I don't think that all proprietary software is unethical (video games being one example) but when it comes down to it I just don't trust Microsoft (or Apple) or their closed development strategies.
Had a Droid X, had to pull the battery because of lockups at least once a week after a few updates. Switched to a WP7 because I wanted the phone to be more controlled. I have an HTC Titan, yes I went back in "hardware-time", and no I don't need eleventy billion processors on my phone. Its a bloody phone, not a gaming machine. Not missing any apps, but I'm not an app junky. Easy to use, good response, gets the job done and gets out of the way.
Personally, I'm glad it has less apps because I think it wasn't android, but the crapplications, that hosed my Droid X. So now I can root my droid and try to turn it into a tablet and try to get linux free of the android constraints.
Sorry, even being an avid Linux user, I see Windows Phones' Metro interface being way ahead of its time. Finally, Microsoft makes something, from scratch, that's worth buying, and because it says "Windows" and "Microsoft" people wont buy it and will simply bitch about it without picking it up. I wouldn't say its doomed to fail, Windows Mobile has survived before, and there are plenty of niche markets out there that are like this. Just because its not "The next best thing" doesn't mean its a failure. Just because your car doesn't make 1000 horsepower, gets 200 miles/gallon and costs 15 grand, doesn't mean its a 'failure'. Everyone has preferences. People have bought the Lumia, they love it. So Nokia has to downsize, stop the fucking presses. -TM
My kids have Droids, my wife has an iPhone 4s (as do I, but it's in the drawer right now), so we pretty much compare and contrast these things every day. On the WP, I don't find the tiles are any less easy to use than the iPhone icons, although I wish there was more choice in the WP theming for colors and such. I like the"live" tiles that show me my pictures -- it's nice to see the family faces pop by while I'm doing other things, especially while travelling.
The Lumia has a nice form factor and display (I don't use slide out keyboards) and it's pretty fast even without true multitasking. It's every bit as enjoyable to use as an iPhone or the Droid. Also, the Nokia maps and driving app is pretty good -- I think easier to use than the WP Maps app.
The email and calendar applications are really good, especially with Office document attachments (Excel attachments are way more usable than on my iPhone). This is why I've stuck with the WP. Most of the non-game apps available on the "Marketplace" are crap, though. But that doesn't bother me because every app I bought on the iPhones runs on my iPad, which I still carry everywhere for recreational and reading use.
Well, maybe not, but I think the Windows Phone is pretty much perfect for the average joe and business user. The interface is quick, beautiful. I have a Samsung S. When I want to take a picture, no fuss switches over to camera mode - takes fantastic pics.
Easy to operate the phone portion and Exchange server integration works perfectly.
There are indeed great apps. As far as apps go, the aren't bad - there are some great apps and some poor apps (like any platform). I think the worst thing that Windows Phone has going for it is the name of the phone "Windows Phone" - turns a lot of people off.
Phone boots up very quickly, battery life could be better. I've never been forced to reboot the phone due to an app issue. It's been ROCK SOLID reliable. Had it for 6-7 months now. I do not like how I can't easily change ring tones for text messages, email accounts etc. They need to work on that. Otherwise, great product. Haters on here really haven't used it in my opinion, or they are uber-geeks wanting to do way too much shit with their phone.
It gets the job done for me, it does it well, we're getting along nicely.
Be great if a developer wrote a SIP client - that would be cool.
Mickey$oft Team 99 astroturfers included the main stream press and posters like your self.
Now if Ballmer wants to PAY me to use a win phone I will sing its praises too.
Otherwise Android for me.
The main gripe with Windows Phone was that i couldn't come close to customising the looks of it (oh yay i can change theme and the slider screen, big woop), Nor could i change the notification tone, except to one of the 10 jingles provided (how long has customisable text notifications been available to other phones, years and years i believe)
I call all smartphones immature - including the holy (as in, full of holes) iOS. At every use, there's something that could be better, but is o.k. for now and clearly just too cool compared to the vacuum (tubes, and/or lack of any viable product) that preceeded it.
Actually, the thing that's really immature is the wireless data infrastructure - when that doesn't require a $500+ annual donation to use, I'll be a lot more enthusiastic about any portable wireless device.
No touchscreen-only device purporting to be for business / email use will ever get a good review from me.
And for all us folks who want to get actual work done on the go, theres Blackberry.
I had an HTC surround that died of asphalt poisoning and my inability to discern a tiny ribbon of wires from the tape holding it in the case. I'm a big fan of the W7 os for daily stuff. Getting to Maps, my calendar, music and such was a much better experience than I've had with either iPhone or Android. Metro is one of the best advances in mobile tech in a while IMHO. I don’t have to focus on my phone to find that one app I use all the timeor even unlock the phone to see missed calls or messages. Cutting off the text makes it much faster and easier to read. The dev environment for W7 is top notch. If I ever see XCode again, I'll cry. I can deal with eclipse/java, but it's overall just not as elegant to code in as Visual Studio and .Net. (I used to do Mobile QA for a large corporation and have a lot of experience testing and writing code for all 3 platforms)
The bad, as everyone said, is the lack of apps. Chess with friends brought me unwillingly back to the iPhone. Draw Something kept me there. Until Microsoft gives Zynga a monstrous subsidiary to start writing apps for the phone, it's not going to catch on mainstream. Alas
I have an HD7 and my wife has a Lumia 800, I chose her phone :). I have no problems with MS, aside from Office, I think their software has an undeservedly bad reputation. The OS is very nice, one of my main reasons for getting a WP is coz I like Visual Studio and XNA and I want my home projects to be nice and productive. The integration between camera, social networking, e-mail etc is really cool, photo -> facebook, search for place -> maps, also combining contacts and easy switching between text/msn/facebook in the messaging service. Main downside is the lack of apps (I missed out on the draw something craze), there are so many cool apps on iPhone. The back/windows/search are also really bad for games in landscape mode it's really easy to touch them with the palm of your hand and then some games take an age to restore from tombstoning.
If you asked Siri what the best smartphone is a month ago it would have told you it was the Nokia Lumina 900 Windows Phone. Just sayin http://www.pcworld.com/article/255508/siri_says_nokia_lumia_900_not_apple_iphone_is_the_best_smartphone_ever.html?tk=rel_news
I want my home screen be an app of my choice instead of tiles if I want.
I want usable removable sd cards and a real file system accessible to the apps I choose.
I want local backups of EVERYTHING to a file over usb.
I never want to ever have to run zune for anything.
I want local address book management none of this to the cloud shit. I'm not uploading my contacts anywhere.
I want the stalker track me/wipe my phone app turned off. It is unacceptable to have to choose between never being able to buy anything from app store and a stalker app. Controlling privacy settings from a web site later pushed to my phone is not a choice.
I want a choice as to where I download apps from. One source or having to hack and crack just to load applications is crap. Don't tell me about security all of the manifest contract security model bits already in the phone and there is no way manual app store reviews are sufficient to catch bad actors.
I want native code.
I want secure wifi to be secure. Windows phone can't even be configured to validate certificates of WPA enterprise sessions leaving us at the total mercy of microsoft chapv2... Its hard to be any worse than the iphone leap of faith but they did it.
I want bluetooth APIs
I want ICS sharing back
I want more options and opportunities for customization.
I want other form factors like the black berry to work out of the box and not be total crap experience.
Why do we need yet another phone OS when we already had a bunch. Market voted for android and ios. Sorry Microsoft, but the boats already sailed. I dont care because I dont want to care. You and nokia and rim all blew it by being too late, too hard or too expensive. Its done. Move along now. Nothing to see here.
Anecdotal evidence - my wife reviewing new phones; the WPhone has an off center home screen, it doesn’t look right - I don't want that phone
When it comes to Microsoft, stay the course doesn't always happen. They killed COM,Silverlight and now they're on an HTML5 kick. Microsoft shifts platforms too much for anything to be a sure bet. App developers and in the know consumers stay away because if Windows Phone doesn't succeed, Microsoft will yet again change it all up again. Of course, in order for Windows Phone to succeed app developers and in the know consumers will have to buy into WP. (Chicken and egg)
Your common grade consumer doesn't care on a technical level about the damn thing. It usually has something to do with brand recognition, word of mouth suggestions from their more tech savvy friends, price point, or "ooooh shiny" factor. Microsoft is going to have the hardest time in this department (which is the largest) since no one knows about Windows Phone (in a relative sense, and that's mostly because the Lumina 900 commercials suck, but of course they would, Microsoft has one of the most shit filled ad departments ever., tech savvy people aren't suggesting it because of fear of being abandoned, the price point on the Lumina 900 is pretty good but there are a lot of Androids out there that are the same price, and the last thing the Lumina 900 has is "ooooh shiny" Apple's got the monopoly on that.
But yeah, Microsoft's history on products has been lousy. Rarely do they stand behind anything and on that point I'm very shaky about getting one. I don't want to be left in the digital dark ages because Microsoft found a new goal to go after.
I really like WP7 OS overall, in fact gave my 70 year old mom one for a bit. She quickly learned the overall usage of the OS, but would call me whenever something was in one of those little menus you can barely notice. I gave her an iPhone, and she now rarely calls.
In my opinion it is better thought out than Android. They have made several compromises that favor power users over my mom, but also have not gone too far toward the nerd nirvana of everything configurable at the expense of usability.
I'm baffled as well why it gets dogged, underdogs usually have throngs of supporters. If Ballmer wasn't setting on his hands rocking back and forth convincing himself that windows mobile 6 was better than an iPhone until after Android came out, the OS could easily dominate today.
I can't speak to Windows 8, but my first non-Nokia phone was an HTC running Windows Phone 6.5 a few years ago. I liked the hardware and I liked the WinOS but literally NO ONE is writing apps for it. Given that it's a derivative of Windows CE and has a lineage going back to (at least) 1995, that's a pretty damming indictment of the platform. (And, yes, I saw the Slashdot pointer to the article stating that they just passed 100K apps in their Marketplace a week or so ago but there's STILL no Pandora, or iHeartRadio or, near as I can tell, most mainstream apps.)
Basically, it's a fine platform as long as you have no desire to extend it beyond whatever's in the core OS but, for me, that's a deal-breaker for a smartphone. I'll NEVER purchase another Windows phone. (Fool me once...)
singing its swansong? Really?
http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/12/06/14/1239216/nokia-to-cut-10000-jobs-and-close-3-facilities
Pretty much says it all. WP strategy certainly didn't work for Nokia.
If they need the "antitrust stick jammed up their asses again" then your communist butt buddy Richard Stallman 'Great name, Richard Stallman=RMS Titanic" should be arrested for treason against America. Oh watch this comment get modded down as shitdot sheeple are nothing more than communist loving fucktards who should go slit their fucking wrists.
GO AHEAD FUCKING FLAME AWAY
OR WASTE YOUR GODDAMNED MOD POINTS
FUCKTARDED SHITDOT SHEEPLE!!!!!!!!!!
from experience, ms has tended to ditch technologies. usually no upgrade or migration path and usually without warning or option to transfer to open source support, since its all propitiatory. i know most tech is forgotten and thrown out after 2 years, but Microsoft brings their own salted earth philosophy to their discarded tech.
I had a Windows Mobile phone for nearly 2 years. The experience was horrible. It crashed, alot. The touchscreen features were immature and android/iphone touch features worked much nicer. The included apps were limited and somewhat bad, too. But above all else there was the mobile Internet Explorer, which was a complete nightmare. IE couldn't be removed or "really" closed, it was always running somewhere and at one point I had a limited data plan because I was no longer using the phone for mail or web but I was still required to have a data plan. Well, during that time, 2 months in a row it (IE) managed to usd roughly $250 worth of data use --impressive since I didn't use it. My carrier was decent and reviewed my data use and removed the charges, and they also took note of 11 other bugs in the OS and then gave me a free early upgrade to an Android based phone. Never again a windows mobile phone for me.
It's hideously ugly. I don't care how many MS employees call it beautiful. You can call an ugly piece of crap beautiful all you want. Calling something beautiful doesn't make it so. Also, it's locked down even more than Apple's iPhone which is really quite an accomplishment. No developer wants to write software for a platform as locked down as Windows phone. It doesn't even have C++ or even C! That alone makes it a joke platform for amateurs.
You say: "I find it a painful process to go back to an Android or iPhone for some obscure app not yet supported on WP."
The apps which already have Android and/or iOS support, which you also want WP support for, may be obscure in terms of the ones you as a person are particularly looking for. However, there are a whole host of non-obscure apps supported on Android and iOS, which are not supported for Windows Phone yet.
Angry Birds Space. Temple Run. A banking app for Chase Manhattan bank. Instagram. Any Zynga app - Words with Friends, Draw Something etc. Pandora.
Dropbox is an app whose whole point is to be cross-platform. That they don't think WP is worthy of a port yet is a sign.
There's a Nook app for iOS and Android but not yet for Windows Phone, although I'm sure the $300 million deal Microsoft made with Barnes and Noble six weeks ago will change that. At the moment, Lumia owners are still out of luck due to the deal. It just goes to show that popular apps are not written overnight.
Is there a database app that can handle Microsoft Access files on Windows Phone? AFAIK, there is not. There is one for iPhone and Android. I should know, I wrote the one for Android. If you want to search through a Microsoft Access database file on a mobile phone - with Microsoft Access being included in most of the Microsoft Office suites I've found at large companies and universities - you have to buy an Android or iPhone.
All of these are all popular apps on iPhone and Android which are not on Windows Phone. Then there apps which have been ported to Windows Phone, but which reviewers say are much worse than their iPhone and Android versions. Rdio is one example, according to Techcrunch and Gizmodo reviewers - they love the Android and iPhone version, but think the WP port is sub-par.
Mmm... I like beef. Don't you think it's a bit unfair and insulting (to the beef) to compare a slab of beef to Windows Phone?
Can't connect to work or home so it is completely unusable aside from all of the other UI unusable issues. If I can't reboot the matrix from my pocket supercomputer while waiting at the red light, then it's just a phone. Android and iPhone actually enable me to work, not just read email.
My beef with windows phones starts off with being a Zune owner. Now I purchased my brown Zune when woot was clearing out the 30gb refurbs so I wasn't drinking the coolaid, just grabbing a bargain. While the Zune has proven a far superior device to my 20gb 3rd gen ipod, and even my fieance's 5th gen nano there are some issues: 1) Microsoft chose a proprietary physical mechanism for docking. For the ipod this was fine since they were first to market. For the Zune this was a death blow. Not many accessories came out other than what microsoft produced. 2) Due to a proprietary software interface even if you have a USB interface in your car that is USB and Ipod compatible you cannot interface your Zune to it. With the exception of a Sync based car stereo and some recent high end Chevy stereos your zune cannot be controlled with the steering wheel controls. 3) The one add on that microsoft kept promising to allow existing stereos to use the Zune directly was put out by soundgate. The issue here was that it only works with a limited cross section of cars, and even soundgate couldn't get the story straight on their product. Some pages claimed that it only charged the zune, others claimed full functionality. 4) Promised functionality never really formed. I have a full microsoft environment in my home. WHS, WMC, xbox, zune, etc. Transfering shows from my WMC recordings was never as easy as promised. WHS never really integrated with the zune software to centralize the library for whole home access, and xbox functionality was somewhat sad. The problem with the Windows phone is that I'm not seeing any indication from Microsoft that they have fixed the Zune's shortcomings. I would like to know this before I invest: 1) Will a Lumia (or any other WP7 device) work with existing Non-ipod accessories like the USB based alarm clocks? 2) Will a WP7 device work with any USB enabled car stereo? Either OEM or after market. Or am I limited to "Microsoft blessed" stereos? My Android phone works with any USB stereo and does this by acting like a standard USB Storage device. 3) Will microsoft start updating the phones independent of the carriers? Even then how long will a phone be supported? My android phone (Mytouch 4g) was easily rooted and is now running ICS. While I know rooting and flashing isn't standard, android is open source which means I can do this. Microsoft WP7 probably won't be as flexible. 4) Did microsoft give up on these proprietary connectors? Give me a mini or micro USB please! Something where I can keep two of the same cable in my car, and not have to dig through a box of wires. I love my android phone. I owned a G1 from the preorder, and moved to a mytouch a year and a half ago. In a year I may upgrade and wouldn't mind moving to a WP7, or swapping my work blackberry for one. Just as long as I know answers to the above.
Coffee: The lifeblood of intelligence in civilization.
The only purpose of Windows Phone is to stuff Microsoft software into the only kind of consumer device that Microsoft did not take over yet. It has no advantages, no good ideas, no directions of development that can, even potentially, produce anything worthwhile. Only old Microsoft model with stupid ideas at the core and thousands of tiny special instances of everything that supposedly eventually will duplicate functionality of the few components of a simple, elegant system.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Who wants to carry around a phone whose claim to fame is having a metrosexual interface ?
Hhmmm interesting comment
I am just in the process of setting up a new dual boot PC - My old PC is Linux Mint (not impressed by Unity Im afraid) This new one is UBUNTY 1204 and Windows 7 64 Bit ULTIMATE.
It took me a few hours to configure the LINUX OS, install all the programs I want etc. The Software repository makes things so fast and easy - and yes - sometimes thngs dont work - but - I had LESS problems with the LINUX Side than I am still having with Windows. Of course.. having to find disks and licences from different websites is also annoying but - Ive had issues with Office, (they sent me one disk that was 64 bit but all the rest 32 bit !), Problems with Parallels (solved by using Virtual box which I had hoped to avoid given Oracle now owns it but). Then there is the needing an Anti Virus which adds a definate overhead to the PC (Im afraid I do load the PC - 6 Cores running at 80% is not unusual) which LINUX doesnt need. Oh - Nero - getting that installed was a nightmare also .... and required their support (their mistake it turned out).... amnd I know my lunix PCs will run for years... in a few years time - Ill have to redo the windows because the perfomance etc just clags over time... and the best solution Ive found is blow everything away and reinstall. Oh and then I wanted to get data off my old disks... Win can only ready win file systems. Linux can read a whole range of file systems (including journaling ones. WINDOWS is not reliable. its slow, its clunky and outdated. There is more support for drivers etc.. but nothing a bit of planning and research cant manage - and it certainly is a better use experience (EVEN using unity).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Sv6dMFF_yts#!
'I don't know what it's called. I just know the sound it makes, when it takes a man's life.' ~ Four Leaf Tayback
I have an Android phone and I am completely satisfied with it. Windows phone may very well be the bees-knees, but it came out too late for me to care. And now that I'm familiar with Android, I don't care to switch. (Not to mention the aversion to Microsoft's OS that I've had for about 15 years.... it wouldn't keep me from trying a windows phone, but it might keep me from actually purchasing one.)
The commentators (mostly iOS zealots) believe everyone who has an android phone was suckered into buying one (daringfireball.net) and the only thing that all the Android users are waiting for is their 2 year stint to be up so they can buy iPhones. I've not heard that level of hubris from the Windows Phone aficionados, but some have drunk the Redmond Kool-Aid and believe Windows Phone is the one true messiah.
I don't care for the iPhone for a myriad of reasons. But that's another story.
It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
Having personally used both iOS and Windows Phone devices (and supported Android), I absolutely adore my HD7.
Microsoft hasn't yet forgotten that the device is a phone first. The other OS's phone functionality seems to be more of an afterthought.
I also do a lot of repair on phones. Apple seems to be systematically screwing consumers out of any hope of repair as it moves forward; I have stopped repairing iDevices since the iPad2. They are just not cost effective to repair when out of warranty in most cases.
I definitely wait for apps longer, but as far as OS speed, function, and stability Windows Phone is amazing. It's voice command functionality has been solid since day one. The underlying architecture is worth comparing as well if you have time to read the bandwidth and memory management documentation.
I find it to be a far better tool for business than its competitors (not to downplay how great the few games worth playing actually look). The account integration in the "People" application is legendary!
It's irrelevant who is causing the extra cost. The end result is still the same: extra cost.
Look at the way Apple and Samsung market their product... It's intended to make you envious, you'd be a second class citizen if you didn't have an iPhone or a Galaxy phone right! HTC has simply earned their respect by being in the market for ages and releasing so many new phone with the latest.... at some point we have spotted one and thought "that looks good".... But Nokia and M$, well apart from poor advertising and the lack of a serious flagship phone I'd have to say it's mostly getting bashed by the M$ haters. Because using a Nokia Lumia 800 is a good experience and I do like it....
What they need, a serious flagship, phones sell the same way cars do... Everybody wants the sports model but most settle for a sedan. This means the early adopters and your CEO, people who "love" always buy the top model and then proceed to tell everyone (brag) about how awesome it is. This is the kind of word of mouth WP needs! They need a flagship model like the Galaxy S III with serious high end power, cameras, etc... That's the only way they will grab peoples attention....
Making a great phone at a great price isn't good enough I'm afraid, Nokia need to pull a quad core WP8 weapon out the second WP8 lands... Clearly, Nokia's other phone platforms are dead or almost dead, at least the Lumia has got some good reviews and is a great place to start and it does showcase Nokia's build quality ... now they need something new with awsome hardware or I think it will be all downhill from here.....
1) It runs windows.
2) It's a phone. (I don't like phones, prefer ipod touch wifi devices...)
Hi all,
I decided to share, for those interested, my experience with WP7. As background: I am a programmer, I have developed for iOS, and I am a Linux, Mac and Windows user in a regular basis. I used an iPhone since the original version, and have used iPhones, Androids and, for the last year and a half, a WP7 (I have the feared Samsung Omnia 7). I work at an university and I am not related to M$ or Nokia or any other phone company in any way.
I would like to start with the positives: Windows Phone is a very fresh operating system. It is visually extremely attractive, fluid and comfortable to use. In terms of the design, it focuses in the information, giving text a central place when text is the focus (of course, images and videos when they are the focus). It succeeds in this most of the time. In addition, they data aggregation is the best of any platform (ok, maybe WebOS was better, but I have no experience there; ... and RIM X is not out yet). If you have contacts from multiple sources (Google, Windows Live, Facebook) you can aggregate them in the people hub, and link multiple accounts to the same person. Then you can also group the individuals and create feeds of this group, if that is your liking. Calendars are aggregated in a similar way into the Calendar Hub. This might not be appealing to most /. users (Facebook!? ugh!) but regular users do like it. The cloud usage is also excellent: most data is also available online from the M$ servers over a Live account (yeah, well.. that is a two edge sword), and they even include remote phone lock and wiping (which is a nice touch). The browser, IE, is actually quite good (hey, I was surprised too...), so are the email and calendar apps. The maps improved a lot with WP7.5, and the directions are EXCELLENT, I find them much more accurate than the ones I get in the iPhone (and those were quite good already). Voice recognition? if you use it (I don't), they had it before the iPhone. The lock screen is full of useful information, which I like, and the tiles provide a great overview of an app without opening it. The tiles home screen looks deceptively simple, but it can pack quite some information in one screen with the tile animations. The Office Mobile client is nice, including the One Note Mobile; all synchronize to the M$ cloud. The keyboard is one of the best I have used, and the support for multiple languages is fantastic (Android is very close here too when using additional keyboards). The Music player is surprisingly good. And if you are a developer, you will love the Touch Develop app from M$ that allows you to write scripts visually and explore the API of the OS.
Now to the not so nice things.. (and I have quite a list). The first one is this thing with text overflowing the screen to the right.. it a design decision that I cannot understand, but I have learnt to live with it (still don't like it). The aggregation sources are at the moment locked to what M$ offers: i.e. you cannot are your own sources. This means no CardDAV, no CalDAV, no LDAP.. which sucks for enterprise environments. You are also out of luck with VPNs, because they are not supported yet (sigh....). The email app is OK for normal users, but if you use folders heavily, or have thousands of emails in your inbox, it is not the best app (also, it only supports server-side search in M$ and Google accounts). Battery life is short (but is that the fault of the OS exclusively?), I have to carry 2 batteries when I am on the road. And then there is the lack of apps: it is improving, but it is nowhere near the level of the apps in iOS or Android. And finally... programming in WP7 can be really difficult, which I think is the biggest drawback.
For short, the platform is still not fully mature, and it is clearly a platform for everyday users. It covers the needs of a user that wants to stay in contact with his friends, uses Facebook, Xbox live, play games, checks email, tweets something, finds some directions in the map, etc. Power users and enterprise us
THe point was sometimes human interfaces that limit are helpful. This is not to say that more general purpose things are not more powerful. But python is definitely more readable between different authoring styles than other languages are. Sure you like braces in C but Do you like therefore braces like in LISP? Braces allow obfuscation at some point even if they offer power of expression.
As another example, why do you even bother with computer languages at all. All of computer science is a deliberately limited subset of physics. WHy not just use pure math. or program in binary.
limitations have their advantages.
The fact that some people fail to grasp that was my starting point. Thank you for making my point.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
I have what I think is the worst possible windows phone, the HTC Trophy, and I still like WP7 (not the phone) after a year. In fact, it has a cracked screen and I refuse to pay $100 for a new one.
Pros:
* Tiles really do make getting to things / getting status quick
* Contact information integration is awesome
* Integration of Business Email (Exchange) and Personal (Multiple Google accounts, Windows Live Accounts) is seamless
* OS is fast and does not seem to slow or bloat over time (you know, Android creep)
* App management easy
* UI is gorgeous IMO, whereas I think Android looks quite cheap and iOS I'm just sick of.
Cons:
* Some "Phone 101" functions (like correctly indicating unread text messages) are buggy. If you open your messages list, but don't necessarily open all of them, the live tile still clears the new message count to 0. Many times I've missed messages because of this.
* I find in general configuration options are lacking severely. I shouldn't have to root my phone to make basic configuration changes.
* You can only choose from a small set of rather ugly colors for the tiles, which is ridiculous and stupid rolled into a cigar of annoying.
* The phones are bad on Verizon, and I refuse to leave Verizon because I'm not switching to an inferior carrier for a better phone which IMO is net downgrade.
* The locking function is not secure, and the keypad tiles for PIN are small/awkward; I'm always mistyping my p/w
Microsoft has been burning bridges for decades, and now wants us to come and try out their fancy dancy MS-Bridge 10.0, while we inspect our scars.
Good Riddance, Bastards!
Table-ized A.I.
Despite AT&T's best efforts, their Windows phones do actually receive their updates (later than most carriers, but they get them). T-Mobile and most other carriers have pushed updates regularly. What "lies" do you feel you've been told about updates on WP7? The biggest lie that I've seen is that current Windows phones *won't* receive WP8; that's been stated nowhere official. Quite the opposite; MS has said they'll continue supporting the hardware for long enough that I can guarantee that at least the gen2 and probalby gen1 phones (many of which have the same specs) will indeed get WP8.
The only modern smartphone OS user who hsould have to expect "lies and contempt" is an Android user, and that's a fault of how much control Google lets the carriers and OEMs have. Require a service contract for a specific period of time, including updates, for them to use the Google services (Google Play, etc. - these are *not* part of the Android open-source projet, and must be licensed from Google for terms including payment, contrary to popular belief).
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
1) It's controlled by Microsoft, who have a very well proven and consistent track record.
2) It's Windows. On a phone.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
a toy. I have an N9 and love it, the Lumia 800 took the same body and put a garbage OS on it. It's like dating a genius swimsuit model, then trying to date a dumb blonde. It doesn't work and you're only dissapointed at what was lost.
I really like the thing. That said, I still have an HP WinCE thingy because I can run Python 2.5 on it and if you have a WP7 phone you HAVE to try Microsoft's scripting IDE: 'Touch Develop' - You can write simple apps directly on the phone. Saved my sanity in many meetings. Other than the phone it's Ubuntu all the way for me, by the way - I've a reasonable rating on the help forum but I do quite like Unity, so I must be a bit wrong in the head.
"Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs," I said. "we have a protractor"
It's that simple, and it's the same reason I'll never use an iPhone.
On Android the Firefox beta shits all over Chrome beta.
TFA is basically asking us what's our "beef" with Windows Phone
I have no beef with anything
I just don't want to get hit by a flying chair
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
How about their alienation of developers? Let's see. I have an idea for a 3D game I'd like to write for phones. What do I write it with?
1. iPhone: C++, OpenGL, (with a little Obj-C to call into the core code)
2. Android: C++, OpenGL, (with a little Java to call into the core code)
3. QNX-based phones: C++, OpenGL
4. Some Brew phones with good hardware: C++, OpenGL
5. Windows Phone 8: Oh, Sorry mate, you have to port it to C# and DirectX! Have fun with that!
Microsoft has gone and driven a wedge in the developers' world again, but this time they're on the wrong side of it. Who the hell is going to port their game to their exotic platform, when the same code can hit so many other mobile platforms?
The annoying thing is the Nokia phones that don't have MS WP7 are actually easier to use with an MS mail server. It's been a step backwards instead of the increased compatibility they imply is going to occur.
Just it's associated with a total lack of security, bloatware on Dell/HP/Lenovo laptops which means we have to reinstall the bloody OS while paying for a XP Install CD that should have come with the laptop in the first place, and such a POS architecture that over 2 million browser-based exploits let you hose the whole system with spyware, fake antivirus software, keyloggers, etc.
Then you get to take it in to a tech shop to reinstall the OS and restore your files for half the cost of the device. If a phone were like this, you've already paid for two phones in the first year.
If I had to pick one thing, I would have to say that it's how Microsoft doesn't seem to care. They seem to just have the same piece of software, giving it a facelift every few years, but still keeping the core shit the same. If they haven't caught on by now, I doubt they will. It's a backwards culture. That's why my prediction is that Windows phone will fail.
I upgraded from a Samsung Galaxy to a Lumia 900 and I haven't looked back. Let's just say it is very easy to use and I don't have to constantly tweak it. The apps also seem much more polished (not to mention I have all the apps I had on my old phone with the exception of certain games). I also like it better than my wife's iPhone 4S but that doesn't mean it's a better device, I just never got used to that one button does all concept (I really like having a back key and a way to lock the phone).
WP..i dont care about having my facebook or whatever cool widget on the home screen of my phone, so i like my iphone which people tend to think to think you just means facebook etc, but doesnt since it actually really doesnt bog up your phone like WP and Android. I used Android since 1.5 cupcake but if you want you can make your whole phone just facebook based, the iphone with no apps is just a nice phone. job: MCITP windows engineer.
"WP gave me the same feeling I got when I bought my first iBook, fired up OS X 10.1 and realized I had just been shifted up a decade."
Seriously? I bought my first iMac last year. That was when I realized just how tight the handcuffs really are. Just 3 weeks later I sold it and went back to Linux.
Seriously, it looks pretty, but using it just sucks. It is for people who do not yet have a workflow, and who are happy to be told how they must use a computer, and what they must use it for.
The bottom line is, if you can work with an apple pc, then great, buy one (unless you're happy with the way you currently work and don't see a need for change).
If you cannot work with one, then don't try to. Accept that what you have is better, because it is likely more flexible and allows you to do things your way.
OSX isn't flexible. That is both blessing and curse. A blessing to some who can change to suit the OS, but a curse to those of us who have grown up with an OS that we can change to suit us. I believe machines exist to benefit people, but Apple seem to think that people exist to benefit them.
I wonder if WP would be more successful if it was released earlier. Who knows?
This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
If Windows Phone were a wholly new brand it might stand a bigger chance; as it is, the general opinion of the brand has been negatively impacted by the pains Windows has inflicted on the world's users during the years. Everyone's been enduring Windows anyway and buying it because that's what everyone's software runs on, but that's an advantage Microsoft can't count on in the world of smartphones - in fact, this factor plays against them now.
In other words, Microsoft is reaping the well-deserved fruits of all the years of accumulated hatred and mistrust from its userbase.
If they knew it was going to make you wince just buying it, at least they had the common curtesy to name it after the act of withdrawing in pain.
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
Right from the get go my first thought was the phone UI was ugly ugly.
FTFY
24. Cannot stream audio from video playback to Bluetooth devices as A2DP profile is not implemented.
Incorrect. WP7.5 implements A2DP. All WP7 phones can stream audio using A2DP. Some older phones do not stream A2DP audio during video playback.
23. No way to stream audio to the majority of car audio systems as the most common Bluetooth rSAP profile is not implemented.
In my experience the majority of car audio systems use A2DP to stream music. rSAP is the remote SIM Access Profile, and I will confess to ignorance as to what SIM access has to do with streaming audio and I am ready to be educated.
Just like with Zune, Microsoft copied what's worst about their competition. I attribute it to cargo cult marketing.
They rely on the public SSL PKI. Any rogue SSL cert registrar can let someone generate a cert for any domain.
I've had a Samsung Omnia 7 for over a year now and while Windows Phone interface is great and I really like Zune for my music the downside is that my phone freezes and restarts very frequently (daily). I can't say for sure that the issue is software rather than hardware but it's put me off getting another when my contract expires.
Flipping tiles nauseate me. Camera button is right where I hold the phone when making a call. Camera button too sensitive. What genius came up with that? Not everyone is a tourist. I haven't yet figured out how to actually turn off a video. There is just a pause button. Same with music. Definately not intuitive. I constantly run into apps I'd like to have but which do not exist for WP. Calls do not end when the power button is used, so the call goes on and on and on, causing embarrassing voice mail. Put a few apps on the home screen and, as others have pointed out, you have to scroll forever. Tiles too big. I'm not blind. An entire screen column for a single small right arrow at the top right? Black space on right makes the home screen asymmetrical, which is disturbing to the human mind. Beauty in faces has been proven to be a matter of symmetry. News item: Nokia to lay off 10,000. Guess I chose wrong for my first "smart" phone.
E Proelio Veritas.
And its great. I gave it a try and it is way way better than Android. I haven't used iOS that much so I can't really say much about that. Meanwhile, I find that the only people who complain about the tiles are the same people who haven't actually used them. On the other hand, Bing sucks and MS has no business doing anything related to search because we all know they just can't figure it out. I guess there aren't a lot of apps at the time either, but I have hobbies and better things to do with my free time than download fart apps. I guess if you really really need to have your apps then this is a drawback. Still, the interface, etc. is just so nice. Try it!
Just get a smartphone without data plan. My voice plan is even just 2G. Dirt cheap, and free WiFi is sufficiently available for when I really want to look something up.
I've had 3G for voice a few years ago, but the only difference I noticed is hotter phone & worse battery drain, and worse coverage (shop talked about better call quality - well I didn't hear the difference). I must add that coverage improved over time, and is good now.
It performs a lot better than Android 2.x on the same hardware. NOT sluggish while scrolling, NOT unresponsive when talking, NOT crash and auto-reboot every day, etc.
But it lacks apps and basic functionality such as blocking calls (the only functionality I want with a phone). So it's USELESS despite being a seemly superior system.
People don't even need to read the article in order to **not** give WP a try. That is they way consumers pay back.
I did read the article and Microsoft/Nokia should be taking notes. There's a brand issue preventing mass adoption. Corporations can't just have those issues and try to get away with it. The product might be good, but hey, we all know some things about Microsoft and Nokia.
I used to despise MS and argued vociferously against a MS fanboy friend of mine. Most of my coworkers and friends use iPhones and are willing to pay the unforgiveable (IMO) premium to buy their products. After suffering through my phone carriers inability to push out any sort of Android update, I rooted my old HTC, did the Cyanogen thing and limped a little further shouting, "open source, avoid Apple and Microsoft" and generally parroting the noises I hear on this site.
I have since bought the Lumia 900 and love it. Like most office workers, my company uses MS Office products. Being able to open and view attachments natively on my phone is great. The Metro interface is far more intuitive than Android or iOS. Everything that I do regularly just seems to work with very little fuss. This includes using Outlook, Hotmail and Gmail accounts, limited social media (mostly LinkedIn - still won't sell my personal history to Facebook), photo-taking and sharing, texting, mapping with traffic info (if you don't like the default app, google maps has a W7 client - both are as useful as gmaps on Android), surfing the web and listening to music - and of course making phone calls. As far as single-core only support goes, it has not been an issue for me at all and the phone seems quicker in task switching and overall interface response than a friend's dual core Android HTC.
True, the apps are more limited, especially with music streaming applications and gaming titles. For me this is not an issue, I store enough music on it for times when I am not near a computer or this archaic device called a stereo. I would rather game in 1080p at home than on a deficient handheld regardless of brand.
My phone is tool to improve accessibility, not my primary computing, photo or music device. As such the Lumia 900 has been far better than my previous 2 (Android) phones. Hate away Slashdotters. I hope you are wrong about Nokia and Windows mobile. I think it is the best phone experience currently out there.
Anyone who has actually used a WP7 for real world stuff finds it very hard to go back to iOS or Android. However, most people won't even try it so they never discover that. As to why they won't, I'm not sure. It might be just because it has the name "Windows" or "Microsoft" on it. I think the "I'm a Mac. I'm a PC" ads contributed to a notion that Windows isn't cool, so it's fine for your desktop but not for your phone. If that's the case, perhaps they should have called it the XPhone or the XBox Phone.
Like a fish needs a bicycle
Maurice W. Hilarius Voice: (778) 347-9907
For now, we've got the "ultimate phablet" combo going - voice phones with 3G iPad, signed up for the iPad data plan last week while traveling, used it to look up maps we didn't really need while driving, whoever decided that glossy screens are a good idea in portable devices needs to stop being a vampire and try to use their product during the daytime.
I highly suspect that our 3G data plan will go unused about 27 days a month.
I can't comment on WP because I haven't cared to look at it. I saw Windows Mobile (and CE before that) fail to significantly improve over a period of many years and I got tired of waiting. How long was I supposed to wait for Microsoft to get it right? Why would I think they got it right this time, after what, almost 12 years of trying?
It seemed to me that the majority of the stated cons in the Article related to the Hardware and not the Windows Phone 7 OS itself.
I've had a WP7 Phone for that last 4 months (HTC Radar 4G) and I have to say I am very satisfied with the WP7 experience; this is my first real smartphone and I find the OS to be very intuitive and hassle free. My wife also got her first smart phone, but opted for an Android (MyTouch), in contrast, she's had a horrible experience, finding it very difficult to use and having to reboot the OS on a daily basis due to application freeze. (I've never had to reboot my WP7 - which is amazing for a MS product!)
The only area I find WP7 lacking is in apps, there are a lot of major apps out there that just aren't available on the WP7 marketplace, but I think that's just a matter of time. Sure, it's annoying, especially in this age of instant gratification, but that's just the way it is.
I'm certainly no Microsoft FanBoy; the only reason I opted for WP7 was because we were starting to look at this space for product development at work, but I'm glad I did.
I think a large majority of smartphone users will find WP7 a great fit, especially those that aren't so technically inclined and I don't see why it shouldn't compete head-to-head with the iPhone - they both "just work" right out the box.
Just my 2 cents.
Sorry for being an AC, too lazy to find my credentials, but I find my WP (Lumia 900, black, for the record) to be nice and useable.
There are shortcomings; native support in the messaging interface for non MSN and SMS would be nice and the onboard twitter could use improvements but otherwise I have found it excellent. The interface is good, the keyboard is alright, the voice search doesn't talk back...
Yeah, I recommend it on a general basis; evil empire be damne
CAPTCHA doubted.... Thanks Slashdot >_
To my mind there is nothing wrong with Windows Phone. Its problem is that there isn't enough right with it for a third entrant to the smartphone market to succeed. The marketplace has already selected the two winners, Apple and Android.
What niche does Windows Phone fill that hasn't already been filled? It's hard to out-Apple Apple at elegance, and it's not open enough for the Android fans. For some reason Microsoft is ignoring the niche that might have made it possible for a third entrant to succeed - the enterprise. If Microsoft had focused on security, remote management, and access to enterprise applications like Exchange, they might have had a winner.
It seems that many of the comments being posted are getting off the main subject which is about WP8 and Nokia and not about OS interfaces and dual monitors. Also, while I use a mouse (actually a wacom tablet) when using my computer with my iPhone I do not. From what I have seen and tried with WP8 phones I really see them as functional and easy to use smartphones, however, I am not compelled to replace my iPhone which is working out fine for me.
Quite possibly the most unjustifiably hated tech ever. Semantics aside, the fact that it's on par (and in my opinion superior) to it's competitors and being completely written off as if it's unusable is a shame. All these fanboys are limiting themselves.
Is this question part of a Microsoft-sponsored grassroots publicity campaign (astroturfing)? They sent out a bunch of free phones, sponsored some KoolAid booths with carefully controlled tests and now I'm starting to see these sort of evangelism pop up all over, from third tier journalists to message boards. If MS wanted feedback from real people, they're about 3 years too late. Better to get that stuff BEFORE you write the OS, IMHO. > once you get to know it, windows phone works great Contrast to Apple's top-notch design where things work the way you expect them to without a learning curve. This is the same mentality that MS has had for years - their products work more or less fine if you only use them for the tasks that it was written for. For anything else, they are inferior. > slashdot .. irrational fear of windows
We're a fairly well-informed crowd, most are quite familiar not only with multiple versions of Windows, but better informed of the alternatives than your man on the street. Not all bias is irrational fear. Funny to hear that charge from an MS man. I'm waiting for a lawyer to jump in soon - I thought M$ held the patent on Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. :)
MacKenzie et al. and Meyer et al. merely show general Fitts law relationships for mice, and the others argue based on Fitts law but don't actually show anything.
The (undated) Polaroids are for the Mac's original tiny screen. Even if Apple's engineers actually measured performance on that (which I seriously doubt), you cannot generalize results from that to large screens or multi-screen setups.
So, looks like I was right: you haven't read any studies actually showing that Mac menus are faster.
Windows Phone, Windows 8. I love it. (40 year veteran of operating system design)
For a decade I preferred Windows phones for the sync compatibility.
But, after Microsoft quit supporting Windows Mobile 5 while the phones were still being sold a s new in stores' I gave up and shifted to Android.
NRRPT/RCT
like many, I don't like the squares. The is no need for them, it could just display the text or picture in the square, but Microsoft insists on keeping the ugly things. Let them be perfectly clear (not translucent) and I'd be happier.
second -it is to locked down. I want to be able to homebrew it to my hearts content.
third-it is microsoft trivial but who wants to vote for the heavyweight
fourth-the naming and marketing never made it seem new or fresh. I anyone with windows ce and I am done with wp7
5th-Intel said it was not good enough for midfield in design
6th-its boring (perception wise) and I still to clearly remember all the it can nots that it was released with
7th-we like google, facebook, apple software and ecosystem ms' sucks
8th it is still really ugly.
For a Microsoft Pad to succeed it would have to not just be better than what else is out there, it has to be a lot better. A no brainer. Microsoft is a multi-billion dollar company and they COULD do that I suppose. However their track record sucks. I know I wouldn't even look at one because I would consider it a total waste of my time and I don't even own a pad from any of them. I just don't think they have the tallent. They also would need to ditch the current windows OS and get a real OS to power it. Something not in mode 0. Something like Unix underneath. Could happen. Stranger things have happened like {Obama was elected}|{Bush was elected, twice!}.
Anyone know how to enable this? Had it in Android Google Maps and miss it.
I'm new to app development, but WP7 is the most poorly documented (probably because it's new), ridiculously locked-down environment to code in I have yet suffered through. Things don't work that should due to intended security constraints, making it impossible to casually develop something in free time that might get made truly useful (read: monetized) later. Frustrating enough that I have decided to compete in the Android app space instead. It may be crowded, but at least I can do it.
Test
I got a WP7 phone in late October.
Pros:
Hardware specific for my Samsung focus:
As a phone, it reliably makes and receives calls. This is better than my previous blackberry. +1
The micro-usb connector is standard and doesn't require a special cable.
OS General:
It keeps my Gmail, Work Outlook, and Other Work Outlook reasonably separate. +1
I love "find my phone" on WindowsMobile.com +9000 internets!
Cons: .xml for overdrive, then use overdrive to load it.
I can't mount the SD card to schlep files over to it.
I can't mount the device as media.
The GPS requires a data connection and can't tell me location or airspeed from inside a plane.
The "official" procedure for loading mp3 based audiobooks is a complete sodding hack.
-Seriously, it is Install overdrive, use a web based utility to create the
I can't seek to a position in an audiobook or mp3.
MP3s are listed by their Metadata, and you cannot view the filename.
Editing a paragraph of text is unpleasant. i.e.
-There is no way to arrow-left or arrow-right in a block of text.
-Tapping to position the cursor will select a word 19 times out of 20.
Maps
-Big One: If Maps can't find your target street, it will give you directions to a random location in the city without any warning.
-No turn-by-turn directions. I have to tap the screen after every turn to get the next step read to me.
-When I hear the "bing", I've already missed the turn.
-Local search does not tell you distances to destinations in the list view.
The above faults aside, I'm living with it. It's better than my blackberry was.
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It took me a while to get back to this and I haven't re-read the posts, so I apologize if I'm repeating someone else's points.
The common complaint that I have seen, is the fact that it's an immature OS. And I wholly agree. You can't bring something to market that doesn't even provide the same level of functionality as your competitors. Apple did it, but that's because they are Apple. They succeeded, primarily because of their cult fan base and the halo effect. But they lost their market share and will probably continue down the drain without some major new innovation(like shoe laces[you know they were invented by Steve Jobs]).
The primary problem I see with the windows phone is it is yet another weak attempt to enter the consumer electronics market by Microsoft, which isn't their strong point. How many dozens of similar initiatives have failed? All but XBox, and the Xbox has only succeeded because it was in the right place at the right time, and is competing against another incompetent giant.
M$'s business is business software. That's where their revenue is. With the Windows Phone they seem to have forgotten their real customer, AGAIN. The Blackberry was successful because it sold to business. The iPhone wouldn't have held up if it didn't support Exchange email, radius Wi-Fi, and VPN. And Yet, there is no VPN for the Windows Phone. Well, there go your business customers and most of the international market. I guarantee you that no one in china and india have any interest in a phone that doesn't support VPN. That's almost 3 billion customers lost. It's very easy to lose a customer, and very difficult to gain one, you morons.
Before I keep going deeper and deeper into my technical disappointments with this phone operating system, I will just cut myself short and give my primary complaints.
My primary problem is that it fails as a phone. It does not have repetitive or reoccurring alerts. So, if you missed an important call, text, email, or have a voicemail waiting for you, you will not know about it until the next time you check your phone. To me that is a fundamental function for a phone. If you can't behave like a phone, you shouldn't be aloud to call yourself one.
Bush had NOTHING to do with MSFT winning its appeal of Judge Jackson's order, you partisan troll.
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
Windows Phone?
Windows Phone!
Zune 2!!!
From the depths of Hell I shall spit at Thee!
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --