Windows 8 Is Ready

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Posted by Soulskill on Wednesday August 1, 2012 @05:53AM from the stick-a-fork-in-it dept.

New submitter drinkydoh writes "In an announcement today, Microsoft has finally said that Windows 8 is now complete. Microsoft has begun delivering RTM versions to manufacturers and the general availability of the tablets and computers using Windows 8 will be on October 26th. 'Microsoft's final milestone concludes almost two years of development for its new Metro-inspired Windows 8 software and marks the beginning of the release phase. Microsoft says MSDN and TechNet customers will be able to download it from August 15th. Windows Store will go live on August 15th. Developers will be able to access the final tools and submission process for Metro style apps at the Windows Dev Center later this month.'"

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Windows 8 seems like a solid product by h910 · 2012-08-01 05:53 · Score: -1, Flamebait

I was worried about the whole Metro thing first, but after getting used to it and actually learning the new style I can clearly see the advantages. On top of that this allows nice Windows market place and apps that also work on tablets. Remember that you don't need to use a tablet, but if you do, all your Windows software is there.

Sure, it might take some used to. But just like moving from Windows to OS X or old Office to new Ribbon style Office, you will get used to it and then you see the better sides of things.

Personally I think I will get a new computer towards the winter and get Win8 along with it. GZ Microsoft for the release of the year!
1. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by jmorris42 · 2012-08-01 05:57 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Says the account with exactly three posts, all posted today and all praising Windows 8.
  
  --
  Democrat delenda est
2. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by zlives · 2012-08-01 06:02 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  at first i was like.. shill? but then i was like... douche?
3. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Moheeheeko · 2012-08-01 06:03 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  and posted at the exact same time as the artice, without the asterisk of "I saw this before you"
4. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Nerdfest · 2012-08-01 06:05 · Score: 1
  
  Don't forget his friend "h111", praising Windows phone (and iPhone) and giving backhanded compliments to Android.
5. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by jellomizer · 2012-08-01 06:06 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Ok...
  I also like Windows 8 too. I am not sure why this is at -1. I guess moderators are Rabid Windows Haters today.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
6. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:16 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  Ok...
  I also like Windows 8 too. I am not sure why this is at -1. I guess moderators are Rabid Windows Haters today.
  U#: 103300 Been here a while. Shouldn't you be a rabid Linux/FOSS/GNU/GPL and hate everything MS an sorta like Apple?
  You went to the Darkside!
  NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
  Steve Balmer: "jellomizer, I AM you father!"
7. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by jmorris42 · 2012-08-01 06:16 · Score: 1
  
  Yea, good catch on that. I am a sub so I take the Mysterious Future for granted, which is how I got the second post and even had time to put a little effort into it. But how exactly did this guy get first? Is Slashdot offering select people the ability to post without the subscriber indicator? I only get the option to post anonymous, in the past there was an option to post without taking the karma bonus but apparently it vanished at some point and I didn't notice.
  
  --
  Democrat delenda est
8. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by konaya · 2012-08-01 06:16 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  It's not Windows hatred per se, although that certainly is a healthy attitude. It's just that everytime a Microsoft-related article pops up, a brand new user starts blindly praising whatever Microsoft's been doing this time around. It's getting old, Microsoft.
9. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by smittyoneeach · 2012-08-01 06:19 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  And then Freddie Mercury came on and I was like. . .scaramouche?
  
  --
  Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
10. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by nukenerd · 2012-08-01 06:20 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  It is downvoted because his post is almost certainly a plant by the /. management to wind us up and get us going. First post for a longish piece of writing, with good grammar and spelling, by someone with only three posts ever to his account? I don't believe it.
11. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by BenLeeImp · 2012-08-01 06:23 · Score: 1
  
  Hmm ... I've never heard that angle before. Intriguing ... so that's what the editors do all day.
12. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by BenLeeImp · 2012-08-01 06:27 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  You use a subscriber account to read the articles early, but use a different account to post shill. Just keep mashing F5 on the main page with your text ready in notepad. That way you avoid the karma hit and recognition as a shill poster. Just make a new one when it outlives its usefulness.
  I'm not sure how it can be fixed off the top of my head. Maybe prevent new accounts from getting top post until they've made X other posts?
13. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by MightyMartian · 2012-08-01 06:27 · Score: 2
  
  That's an interesting observation. That makes more sense than paid MS astroturfers.
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
14. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by gx5000 · 2012-08-01 06:32 · Score: 2
  
  Worked there, liked XP, hate 8, disgruntled about 7, don't even ask about Vista. So how long until M$ tells us it's the most sold and successful OS they've made again ? Took them two years last time to admit Vista was a total bust....sigh. I'm going to go now and play Doom on my Win95c PC....laters !
  
  --
  End of Line.
15. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by rullywowr · 2012-08-01 06:34 · Score: 1
  
  at first i was like.. shill? but then i was like... douche?
  shilldouchebaggery
16. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by nschubach · 2012-08-01 06:38 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Severely limiting new/anonymous accounts in any way would benefit the majority of threads. I still don't understand how new/anonymous accounts can start threads.
  
  --
  Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
17. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:43 · Score: 1
  
  After that I was examining ancient hieroglyphics and I was like...cartouche?
18. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by ackthpt · 2012-08-01 06:45 · Score: 1
  
  Says the account with exactly three posts, all posted today and all praising Windows 8.
  Probably, under another identity, said Vista was ready, too.
  I'll wait a few years, thanks.
  
  --
  
  A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
19. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by eternaldoctorwho · 2012-08-01 06:51 · Score: 1
  
  Later on I went to buy some jewelery and I was like...Hannoush?
20. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:52 · Score: 1
  
  Some of us just prefer anonymous posting. It offers everyone the ability to discuss, even those of us that think discussing things to get virtual points is pretty idiotic. I've been reading /. since the late 90s and never has having an account been appealing to me.
  Obviously it's not all roses, but it's not like you can't hide most posts anyways. Although it can be fairly strange seeing replys modded 5 and not knowing what they are actually replying to. This thread for example.
21. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:53 · Score: 0
  
  It's still the "Playskool OS", and it's just another sign of the dumbing-down of the U.S. in general.
22. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by nschubach · 2012-08-01 07:02 · Score: 1
  
  You can anon post all you like, in replies... but this spamming is getting to the point where thread starting by new accounts is just silly. I'm not against ACs or the ability to AC post. But limiting them from replying to the main story is not going to impact the ability for ACs to engage.
  
  --
  Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
23. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Billly+Gates · 2012-08-01 07:04 · Score: 1
  
  You know the Windows Hatred was finally going away. It seems it is now returning and this time rightfully so.
  Maybe dumb Joe Six pack users who never use any of the thigns we whine are gone will notice and like it because it is all shiny like his old AOL connection he once had and Windows 8 will be a big seller? Who knows.
  I have not seen this much hatred to any Windows release since it was new and DOS loyalits railed agaisnt it. Rightfully so back then as Windows 3.0 and 3.1 were truly truly awefull and butt ugly and 14 inch flickering monitors with the all white backgrounds.
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
24. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Jeng · 2012-08-01 07:05 · Score: 1
  
  I've been reading /. since the late 90s and never has having an account been appealing to me.
  Although it can be fairly strange seeing replys modded 5 and not knowing what they are actually replying to. This thread for example.
  
  Yea, the standard UI here is about as bad as Windows 8 (look, it's on topic!), but if you create an account you can go back to classic and still post as AC.
  
  --
  Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
25. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:14 · Score: 1
  
  I heard they made Windows8 with Gamemaker & pre-installed MyCleanPC.
26. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by camperslo · 2012-08-01 07:16 · Score: 1
  
  It's not Windows hatred per se, although that certainly is a healthy attitude. It's just that everytime a Microsoft-related article pops up, a brand new user starts blindly praising whatever Microsoft's been doing this time around. It's getting old, Microsoft.
  Do they realize that shilling actually fosters more hatred of them?
  I wonder where they outsource the shills from.
27. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by narcc · 2012-08-01 07:19 · Score: 1
  
  Posting to undo an accidental negative mod.
  
  --
  Required reading for internet skeptics
28. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Jeng · 2012-08-01 07:25 · Score: 2
  
  It is one of a few theories that have been suggested.
  As it is, this is the first shill I have noticed in months, for awhile there it was real bad, it was rare that a story did not have a shill post as first post.
  
  so that's what the editors do all day.
  
  The number of snarky comments I could make regarding that.........
  Here are a few.
  No, I doubt they even do that much.
  Yes, it takes them all day to come up with a single shill post.
  It's not like they are doing anything else.
  I wonder when they will video the process and then interview themselves about it so they can present it as another video based story no one wants to watch.
  CowboyNeal
  
  --
  Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
29. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by drodal · 2012-08-01 07:34 · Score: 1
  
  And this poster, and other like them, all have the name hXXX where XXX is 3 digits!!!!! interesting.....
30. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by flimflammer · 2012-08-01 07:47 · Score: 1
  
  What amazes me is you are all still biting the trollbait. This is like getting mad when people post First! in discussions and getting +5 informative for pointing out they shouldn't have bothered posting. It's not even shilling. It's just trolling.
31. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by grasshoppa · 2012-08-01 07:47 · Score: 1
  
  No it doesn't. If this is a conspiracy by the /. team, then why use an obvious account? Presumably, they would have accounts for just such a purpose.
  If it's not an astroturf campaign ( given what I've seen on the various message boards out there, I suspect it is a paid for ad campaign from MS ), then it's just a troll.
  
  --
  Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
32. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Illusion2269 · 2012-08-01 07:55 · Score: 1
  
  But then I thought has this silliness gone on long enough and....whoosh?
33. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:56 · Score: 0
  
  Have you two thought of the possibility that you're just getting trolled by someone who isn't even affiliated with Microsoft?
34. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by drodal · 2012-08-01 07:56 · Score: 1
  
  Yes they do realize this. that's why these are probably google or apple shills, PRETENDING to be microsoft shills...... to engender rage.... it is slashdot after all
35. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by jamstar7 · 2012-08-01 07:56 · Score: 1
  
  That's an interesting observation. That makes more sense than paid MS astroturfers.
  Paid MS shills? Wouldn't that count as job creation in this economy?
  
  I can see it now. If the 'paid shills' are Americans, $POLITICAL_PARTY says 'See? We created American jobs!!! See? See? SEE???
  
  Course if the jobs were outsourced to $THE_THIRD_WORLD, $POLITICAL_PARTY would scream 'Hey, $THE_OTHER_PARTY is outsourcing jobs!! See? See? SEE???
  
  So how much does a paid shill make?
  
  --
  Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
36. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:57 · Score: 0
  
  The obvious account is exactly why this works; it generates dozens of replies from paranoid ABMers screaming about "shills". There's plenty of established accounts which pimp Windows/Apple and nobody really cares that much.
  The "inside job" theory is interesting -- there's a lot of slashdot stories that barely generate any comments. These "shills" really pump up the metrics.
37. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by History's+Coming+To · 2012-08-01 08:03 · Score: 1
  
  I get some subscriber privileges, like being able to see things in the "future" from time to time, without actually being a subscriber. Question: do posts made when the article is subscriber-only show up as being made at the same time as the article when it goes public-live?
  
  --
  Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
38. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Sarten-X · 2012-08-01 08:03 · Score: 1
  
  ...just like moving from ... old Office to new Ribbon style Office, you will get used to it and then you see the better sides of things.
  How long is that process supposed to take? Five years later, I still detest the ribbon interface, and still can't just explain to users where to find the function they're asking about. There's always the chance that something's moved, and knowing the folks I work with, that always seems to happen.
  "It's on the view tab of the ribbon. No, up top. The toolbar thing. Click 'View'. Good. Now... Oh, it's blank? There's one button on the side? I'll just come down and take a look..."
  
  --
  You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
39. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 08:06 · Score: 0
  
  Ahh yes, the rare and elusive meta-shill...
40. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Jeng · 2012-08-01 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  AC's are not the problem.
  For some reason the shills don't post as AC, I guess they think it gives the post some authenticity to use an account that is very obviously used just to post a few shill comments and then abandoned.
  While you can be an anonymous expert if you post as AC.
  
  --
  Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
41. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by BiggerBadderBen · 2012-08-01 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  And his neighbor "h105" who yesterday was first-posting about the awesome new Outlook.
42. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Missing.Matter · 2012-08-01 08:39 · Score: 1
  
  Every function on the ribbon has a shortcut. Press alt and then the letters to get you to the function. You can tell any user to do the same. True, the user can add and remove things from the ribbon, but that's really no different from adding and removing toolbars.
43. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by nschubach · 2012-08-01 08:40 · Score: 1
  
  I was speaking mainly of the new accounts. ACs were a secondary thought. Restricting new accounts a little more was my point. I was talking to an AC so I referred to them more directly. Sorry.
  
  --
  Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
44. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by sapgau · 2012-08-01 08:49 · Score: 1
  
  Thank you friend for your heart felt comment.
  Of all the techie forums on the web why did you decided to post it on ./? Why?????
  Is it true you work for Microsoft? Is it really getting worse there?
  Please tell friend!!!
45. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Jeng · 2012-08-01 09:11 · Score: 1
  
  Just about any means I can think of restricting posting by new accounts can be by-passed.
  Such as if you require them to wait a day after account creation to post as Fark does then the shills will just pre-make an account a day or two before the story is posted that they are going to shill.
  Or if you require them to reply to a post and be replied to before their account can make a first post then they will do so with the multiple accounts that they use.
  
  --
  Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
46. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 09:15 · Score: 0
  
  So that you could spend several dozen posts discussing whether it is or it's not a shill. Duh.
47. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by jmorris42 · 2012-08-01 09:20 · Score: 1
  
  You can't actually post while an article is still in the Mysterious Future. But recently they put in the compose box so you can get a head start on writing a post, which beats having to cut/paste from an editor. But you will get an error if you try to preview until the appointed time.
  
  --
  Democrat delenda est
48. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by SomeJoel · 2012-08-01 09:43 · Score: 1
  
  So how much does a paid shill make?
  They get paid in shillings of course. Though the advent of the Euro has made it a far less profitable enterprise.
  
  --
  <Complete your profile by adding a signature!>
49. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by camperslo · 2012-08-01 09:46 · Score: 1
  
  This one seems too closely tied to actual (vaporous) announcements.
  But for variety feel free to put some blame on Facebook, or something new like propaganda from the Department of Commerce. (I wish they or someone would help restore some component/tooling/hardware manufacturing)
  Then figure out who is behind other things (all better stories)-
  Some stock was so volatile today that trading was suspended. I wonder who.
  Facebook will likely slide more after it coming out that 80% of clicks billed were bots.
  1.5 meters of rain expected in Thailand.
  Swedish Teddy Bears infiltrate Belarus via air-drop
  Solar storms possibly contributed to Greenland Melt and power failures?
  NHK show Today's Close Up on July 4th reported that a U.S. power plant had (previously) lost the ability to monitor a reactor due to the Stux. It was a one sentence mention.
  I wonder how long it would take Windows 8 to "arrive" at 300 baud?
  3 months is a long time. In this era there should be a service pack by then.
50. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 10:10 · Score: 0
  
  Please leave us ACs alone, most of the shill posts I see come from new accounts.
  Yours Kindly,
  AC but frequent and genuine /. user
51. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 10:20 · Score: 0
  
  ... fanboidango?
52. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by rk · 2012-08-01 10:30 · Score: 1
  
  I decided instead to go to a Middle Eastern restaurant and the waitress asked me what I want and I was like... Baba ghanoush?
53. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by MightyYar · 2012-08-01 10:46 · Score: 1
  
  It wouldn't do any good - shills would just create a few new accounts each day, sit on them until they pass the probation period, and then resume shilling.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
54. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 11:53 · Score: 0
  
  Limit new people. Not anonymous people.
  Do you know how you know not to trust what an anonymous person says even with several explicit third-party verifications?
  Because instead of a nickname, they have "Anonymous Troll".
55. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by symbolset · 2012-08-01 12:16 · Score: 1
  
  To deselect Karma or Subscriber bonus, click the "options" button. It's a sticky setting that stays until you change it now, rather than post-by-post. BenLeeImp addressed the rest of your question.
  This can't be fixed I don't think. Any cure is worse than the disease.
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
56. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by symbolset · 2012-08-01 12:18 · Score: 1
  
  Discouraging new users is not a survivable online strategy.
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
57. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by symbolset · 2012-08-01 12:21 · Score: 1
  
  As I said above, limiting new people is not a survivable online strategy.
  Maybe restricting accounts logged in from the Azure cloud (by IP) might be. Azure hosted desktops are almost guaranteed to be shills.
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
58. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by symbolset · 2012-08-01 12:23 · Score: 1
  
  On launch day they will brag three hundred million sales, leaving out a description of "software assurance".
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
59. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by nschubach · 2012-08-01 12:30 · Score: 1
  
  I understand that restricting new users is bad... but limiting where they post I don't feel is necessarily terrible. (ie: not first, unless subscribed)
  Alone those lines, if you start whitelisting (or blacklisting) certain IP ranges you'll bump right up against another wall that has far greater detriment. I can see the headlines now: "Slashdot Limits Incoming Connections from Microsoft Domains"
  
  --
  Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
60. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by roc97007 · 2012-08-01 13:45 · Score: 2
  
  Ok, so, firstly, the guy up there that said "It's not Windows hatred per se, although that certainly is a healthy attitude." is my favorite person for this week.
  But that said, am a little puzzled by your statement "Worked there, liked XP, hate 8, disgruntled about 7, don't even ask about Vista". I mean, "hate 8" I understand, "don't even ask about Vista" I wholeheartedly agree with, but what was disgruntling about 7? I had to upgrade to 7 from XP on one machine to add more memory, and was pleasantly surprised. (I'm still running XP on my other machines, of course, lacking any particular reason to spend the bucks to upgrade.) 7 didn't suck. There isn't a compelling reason to upgrade (except the memory thing) but it wasn't a horrible experience.
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
61. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by roc97007 · 2012-08-01 13:48 · Score: 1
  
  > Do they realize that shilling actually fosters more hatred of them?
  I don't believe they think that deeply about it. "Shill online where geeks live" is just a managerial line item. Did we shill Slashdot? Check. Ok, move on to Wired.
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
62. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by postbigbang · 2012-08-01 14:42 · Score: 1
  
  I'm wondering if some of the shills are just sucker-bait, guaranteeing that any rational discussion is derailed so that topics become devolved and useless.
  When they're this obvious, they seem contrived to the point of provocation. Like bees into the honeypot. I think we're getting played.
  
  --
  ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
63. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by jimmyfrank · 2012-08-01 14:43 · Score: 1
  
  I've been using it since CP, it's been business as usual for me.
64. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by epyT-R · 2012-08-01 18:07 · Score: 1
  
  it would also silence large amounts of unpopular truth around here, which would NOT benefit the majority of threads.
65. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by jools33 · 2012-08-01 19:09 · Score: 1
  
  but can you do the fandango?
66. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by nschubach · 2012-08-01 22:50 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not saying to prevent posting whatsoever. I'm saying limit the position of the posts. (ie: no firsts, no thread starter.)
  
  --
  Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
67. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 23:16 · Score: 0
  
  Don't forget his friend "h111", praising Windows phone (and iPhone) and giving backhanded compliments to Android.
  What, that is wrong now?
68. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-02 01:03 · Score: 0
  
  Magnifico-0-0-0!
69. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by weeb0 · 2012-08-02 05:02 · Score: 1
  
  see you in 5 minutes, time before the next crash ...
70. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by cavebison · 2012-08-02 08:00 · Score: 1
  
  Showing total # posts on the user's comment title line? And their overall karma.
  Normal forums show that sort of thing.. longevity, rep and # posts. Why not here?
71. Re:Windows 8 seems like a solid product by neoshroom · 2012-08-10 06:54 · Score: 1
  
  Windows 8 is amazing!
  
  Other OSes are putting real graphic design work into their icons, but not Windows 8. Slap a random white shape on a colored square and you have your program icon. This is brilliant, because it greatly simplifies tech support. When people call up asking how to launch something you can tell them "click on the white icon."
  
  Just another great feature in Windows 8!
  
  --
  Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.
Let the bitching begin.... by jmorris42 · 2012-08-01 05:54 · Score: 5, Insightful

Microsoft seems to repeat mistakes don't they? DOS 4.0, Bob, ME, Vista; the public reaction to all should have been predictable enough that somebody in a corporation their size should have been able to see it coming and delay or abort the release of those turds. But no, they dropped em all and took the abuse and ridicule while apparently learning nothing. Now comes Windows 8.
Maybe they will have time to get Windows 9 right, maybe not. That is what has changed, before they were an unstoppable monopoly and now? We shall see. They have offended their OEM partners with the Surface tablet, the Developers, Developers, Developers! with the knifing of Silverlight and apparently the beginning of the end for both Win32 and .NET and I'm not convinced customers are going to be all that happy with what is about to be rammed down their thoat. All at a time when their monopoly is threatened like never before. The desktop PC itself is being questioned for most users, Office is threatened by Cloud apps and even the long standing stranglehold of Blackberry + Exchange is not looking very healthy about now.
Netcraft hasn't confirmed it yet but Microsoft just might be dying. And after hating on them for decades I'm not entirely sure I'm going to applaud when they exit the stage. The PC is likely to go with them, by which I mean the open platform anyone can write programs for and create add on hardware, etc. The post Microsoft future looks like a grim world of sealed media consumption devices for most and a return to 'workstations' for the select who can afford machines costing as much as a car.
Few will question anymore that Apple is a dark force of DRM and lockin. And the release of the Nexus 7 shows Google to be fast getting in touch with their Evil side. The only major difference (other than a model years' worth of hardware refresh) between it and the equally sealed up Amazon Fire is which app/media ecosystem it is bundled to.

--
Democrat delenda est
1. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by skaag · 2012-08-01 05:57 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  PC era gone? but wait... Steam is coming to Linux! We're saved!
  
  --
  All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain... time... to... die...
2. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by i_ate_god · 2012-08-01 06:00 · Score: 0, Troll
  
  Microsoft is killing Silverlight because it was a stupid idea to begin with. Even then Flash was declining and HTML5 was the obvious winner.
  But killing off .net?! Where do you get that from?
  
  --
  I'm god, but it's a bit of a drag really...
3. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:05 · Score: 1
  
  post ms future is fine... considering that XP (10+) yr old os is just now losing market... win7 can sustain market for the near future. so lets say MS goes out and we are left with win7 for the next 10-15 years... is there a problem with this?
4. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jmorris42 · 2012-08-01 06:06 · Score: -1, Flamebait
  
  > But killing off .net?! Where do you get that from?
  Take another look at Metro. Especially at what they permit on ARM. Microsoft gets to release native code but everyone else must use the MIcrosoft version of HTML5. Does that sound like a winning tactic to you? Doesn't to me either and when the developers raise a loud enough stink that they simply can't port real applications to that Microsoft is going to have to make a decision. Back down and allow at least some way for select 3rd party applications to access a more usable ABI or just go with the closed platform and abandon what has to date been the very successful strategy of deoending on a vibrant 3rd party software sector.
  
  --
  Democrat delenda est
5. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:06 · Score: -1
  
  Maybe they will have time to get Windows 9 right, maybe not.
  They definitely will. Windows has become the Star Trek movie OS.
  ME - bad
  XP - good
  Vista - bad
  7 - good
  8 - bad
  Windows 9 will definitely be good.
6. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by garcia · 2012-08-01 06:08 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  According to The Ed Bott Report on ZDNet, Microsoft is turning over an entirely new leaf in its history by taking cues from Apple and developing its own hardware/software "ecosystem" (I hate that term) and alienating its OEMs which have been just as slow and lackluster as Microsoft has been over the last few years.
  If we accept Bott's analysis as at least somewhat valid, Microsoft may be on the road to recovery--at least if they develop and release products that people desire.
  They're already copying Apple and Google's consistent theme (copying "Metro" UI elements to their rebranded Hotmail, outlook.com) and they're developing software and hardware together. Perhaps he's right and this will bode well for Microsoft in the future.
  However, there is the part of me that says that those people who want that sort of thing had already jumped ship to Apple's own "ecosystem" and everyone else was just fine staying with Microsoft because of whatever reason (cost, support, application support, familiarity, etc).
  Personally I think the Metro UI (and the other unified design deals) is ridiculous and meaningless for me to get my work done and it's not going to make me move away from other products I've been using more recently. However, perhaps it will work and their demise as stated by you may be averted for another few years.
7. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by gbjbaanb · 2012-08-01 06:08 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  I don't think they're killing it off, but it the "new VB". MS has rediscovered native code, so WinRT is entirely unmanaged, the .NET libs have been reworked to simply pass-through to the WinRT functionality and some minor parts removed.
  All native and cloud development is moving towards C++ again, so .NET is left as a desktop development environment. Given the performance fixes are not making it back into the desktop versions of the old libs and I doubt any additional features will be ported there (except security), and that the concept is that your Metro code for the PC can also run on a table or a phone, and the native push for those environments, I think you can see how .NET development is now a 'you can, but...' partner, not the primary focus for development.
8. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:08 · Score: 0
  
  From the web community I work in, HTML5 is reviled as being a bureaucratic mess. Many people end up porting back to Flash for performance reasons. I think the execution of HTML5 was botched and something "else" will need to come along.
9. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Nerdfest · 2012-08-01 06:11 · Score: 1
  
  My main beef with it is the single provider source for their "Metro" interface. Pushing this sort of lock-in was bound to happen with Apple making such an ass-load of money from it though. I'd love to see developers *not* jump on the Metro bandwagon, but like with iOS, serious money is likely to be made only by the first in the door. Like most of society though, enough developers will jump in for the short term greed, despite the problems it will cause for them and users in general in the long term.
10. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:15 · Score: 0
  
  With XP still holding on marketshare and the corps locking in to IE 8 for the next 10 years HTML 5 is a dead start in all but phones. Silverlight and flash are going nowhere, unless Windows 8 really takes off and forces the corps and cheapskates to get with the times but we all know that is not going to happen.
11. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by DAldredge · 2012-08-01 06:16 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  See I know you know better then what you are saying so it makes me wonder why you are deliberately spreading information that is wrong and so easily verifiable as not correct. http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/BUILD/BUILD2011/TOOL-531T "And you have your choice of world-class development tools and languages. JavaScript, C#, VB, C++, C, HTML, CSS, XAML, all for X86-64 and ARM." "This is an extremely important point: If you go and build your Metro style app in JavaScript and HTML, in C# or in XAML, that app will just run when there's ARM hardware available. So, you donâ(TM)t have to worry about that. Just write your application in HTML5, JavaScript and C# and XAML and your application runs across all the hardware that Windows 8 supports." http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/exec/ssinofsky/2011/09-13BUILD.aspx
12. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:17 · Score: 2
  
  Apple didn't invent the "hardware/software" setup. It's been that way since the beginning of home computers. The IBM PC was the one strange thing in that you could install any OS on it.
  Amiga, Atari ST, Commodore 64, Commodore 128, CoCo 2, CoCo 3, Apple II, etc. All computer+OS setups. Sure you could install something else on most of those but the default setup was hardware+software.
13. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jo42 · 2012-08-01 06:18 · Score: 1
  
  Wait for SP2 - it will fix everything...
14. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by HerculesMO · 2012-08-01 06:19 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Too bad the only games that will follow onto the Linux steam platform are games you've already beaten 5 or 6 years ago on the PC.
  Best of luck getting Valve to convince other dev studios to port games to Linux at a huge expense, when the audience simply isn't there. Linux on the desktop is dead. It's linux on the "device" that has a chance. I know why Valve is pushing towards Linux because the Windows 8 App store will eat their lunch, but realistically nothing is going to change. Windows 8 has gotten more idiot proof than usual, and that's what draws in people that don't already somehow have a PC.
  
  --
  The price is always right if someone else is paying.
15. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:22 · Score: -1
  
  It's taking a long time for Win7 to overtake XP, which suggests that average users might not switch to Win7 until they really, really don't have a choice anymore. That was the case for me, since the interface is not friendly for a true multitasker. I had to give up software and hardware that was no longer supported.
  Some functionality is no longer available, like searching inside files on shared network drives (unless every PC in the enterprise indexes the drives, which is not practical).
  I also found out after the switch, it's as reliable as Windows ME. Despite having a pretty good amount of memory in my new PCs, things stop working after a while, when memory is getting closer to the max, even while, according to TaskManager, there is still memory left. Initially we thought it was just caused by my high demands, but it now turns out that more and more people are experiencing similar issues, and we had to switch back to an old XP machine to get some of the processing done, because adding memory didn't solve it.
  It has been a very frustrating move. People that say it's just being afraid of change either don't use their computer to the max, or are blinded by the Apple-like bling we didn't want in the first place. While I'm generally an early adopter, this just doesn't work as well as XP, from the user perspective. And with Win8 it seems to get even worse, with even more hidden stuff.
  No, Win7"ME" has not been a success. Looking at the super-slow adoption, it looks like we might not be the only ones. Microsoft should think very hard. They should give their users a choice and provide an updated version of XP, that is secure, but provides the stability, simplicity and straight forward approach XP had. It might require some internal rework, but XP SP2 was big too, and it worked.
16. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jmorris42 · 2012-08-01 06:24 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Before they had a monopoly. OEMs had no choice, neither did customers. You ran Windows, whether this year's version sucked or not. If you were an enterprise you had the option to get your new machines licensed with the non-sucking version but end users just sucked it up.
  That is what is now in doubt. Will people just sigh and buy that PC with the Win8 turd on the drive anyway, because they still feel they have no other choice, or do they go ahead and move to a tablet. Cut total boxes shipped in half and the economies of scale come into question in a world where even flat sales is considered a disaster by the stock market. AMD will certainly be dead leaving Intel to carry the workstation CPU flag forward alone. Dell would survive but HP probably dies. Enough of the chop shops and builders leave and the flood of generic 'PC' motherboard and other parts start to dry up. That is the phones/tablets/consoles vs workstation future I worry about.
  
  --
  Democrat delenda est
17. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by man_of_mr_e · 2012-08-01 06:25 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  The .NET libs have always passed through to the native code, At some point native code must be called in order to function.
  
  --
  If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
18. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:25 · Score: 0
  
  Apple is extremely controlled and as such extremely efficient at specific tasks
  *nix is extremely powerful and versatile, but extremely intimidating to the average user (the stereotype of the Linux user going "you don't know how to do something? Go back to windows!" doesn't help) and doesn't have wide spread support (Yes, many know how to use it, but too many flavors outthere and no easy way of determining what OS can do what or supports this)
  Windows is accessible to the lay person and currently most visibly ubiquitous. It has issues and may not be most efficient at various tasks, but one can usually find a way.
  So, it comes down to this: Accessibility, capability, security: pick two.
19. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:28 · Score: 0, Flamebait
  
  Apple has ObjectiveC and clean API refreshes, Microsoft has legacy and unclean APIs.
  Yet Microsoft are always shocked when Apple bring out something that just works that Microsoft is working on and won't be ready for another 5 years... ehm Vista, DirectX UI, .Net... Apple Objective-C, Coca etc.
  Yet nobody at Microsoft want's to clean house, what do they do? Wrap Win32 into MFC, then WinForms then WFC etc... Now back to DirectUI COM API's.
  MSFT Lost the plot 10 years ago, I worked there for a decade... Even today my MSFT friends are so much of fanboi they are BLIND and automatically blinker themselves to constructive criticism about anything against MSFT... Just look at the fucking laughingstock the mobile team is .. why? BALMER. A FUCKING MORON. A rich one but still a bitter, clueless, MORON.
20. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by skaag · 2012-08-01 06:37 · Score: 1
  
  I know. It was a sad sarcastic joke. I agree with you 100%.
  
  --
  All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain... time... to... die...
21. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:38 · Score: 0, Flamebait
  
  "World class" doesn't mean what you think it means.
  World class really SHOULD mean... it just works and lets you do the job.
  You list lots of languages but in reality most companies just want to hire VB coders and are scared shitless of even mixing lanugages.
  World class my ass.
22. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by gmuslera · 2012-08-01 06:45 · Score: 1
  
  Too bad they didnt take cues from Linux letting each user to choose the UI
23. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by MightyMartian · 2012-08-01 06:46 · Score: 2
  
  OEMs are what made Microsoft what it is. They've tolerated a small amount of Microsoft branding, but if Microsoft rocks that boat too much, then Redmond better have a big plan to make up for what is basically the foundation on which the whole company is built. Microsoft deciding to become like IBM of old at this point, so far as I can see, carries substantial risks (though, of course, if it works, would have substantial rewards).
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
24. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by MysteriousPreacher · 2012-08-01 06:47 · Score: 0
  
  Linux on the desktop is dead. It's linux on the "device" that has a chance. I know why Valve is pushing towards Linux because the Windows 8 App store will eat their lunch, but realistically nothing is going to change.
  I'm not crediting the guys at Valve as being strategic geniuses, yet why would they use the non-existent market of Linux as a hedge against the MS app store crushing Steam? I imagine the MS app store would dent Steam's share, yet not decimate it. Will the app store offer the social features and matchmaking that Steam does? Also, Steam has a pretty good userbase, and generally good will among gamers. I don't think Steam on Windows is going away anytime soon. MS won't easily be able to tie developers to exclusive posting on their app store (either through contracts or by offering incentives) without raising some anti-trust issues, so it's not as if that's much of an option.
  
  --
  -- Using the preview button since 2005
25. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by aztracker1 · 2012-08-01 06:50 · Score: 1
  
  So, it comes down to this: Accessibility, capability, security: pick two.
  Really wish I had mod points right now... though also wish you hadn't posted AC. I have to admit, I run all three (Windows, Linux, Mac) though have refused to do the iOS thing. I'm not liking where the MacStore has headed, and can only assume the MS version will be as bad. I really wish Valve would do a general App store, beyond games... at least a third party could bring developer confidence.
  
  --
  Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
26. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by HerculesMO · 2012-08-01 06:54 · Score: 1
  
  No, but Xbox live integration is huge for developers because when they spend the time and effort into making XBL achievements for the consoles, carrying them over to the PC is just gravy.
  That's the concern from Valve. In either case, my steam library is HUGE, and I don't see any reason not to keep growing it.
  
  --
  The price is always right if someone else is paying.
27. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by uglyduckling · 2012-08-01 06:55 · Score: 1
  
  Not really. Before the IBM PC is was CP/M on Z80 or 8080 based machines. Even the hardware+OS microcomputers were rated on whether they were "Microsoft Compatible", referring to the BASIC interpreter of course. Both models have been around for a long time, and if anything the 80's micro revolution was the blip, with most personal computers before and after being generic-ish hardware with a generic or partly customised OS. Apple really are the only company to have carried that through several decades.
28. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jmorris42 · 2012-08-01 06:58 · Score: 2
  
  Ug, couldn't ya have posted a shorter page. :)
  So Google and Moz are pissed that only Microsoft can get to native code but googling does seem to confirm that some layer other than just the hyped html5 stuff is being partly exposed on ARM but Metro is the only permitted API. Confusing. Meh, they will either break down and allow third party native code or nobody is going to care about WinRT. Even Google relented on the Java or bust dictate with Android. I'm betting then also give in and let 3rd parties port Win32 applications.
  
  --
  Democrat delenda est
29. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:59 · Score: -1
  
  Score 1 Insightful?
  Looks like I am not the only one getting modded down by the Slashdot Big Brother for having an honest, but non-glowing opinion about a tech firm.
  Slashdot admins, please cut the Orwellian crap
30. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by man_of_mr_e · 2012-08-01 06:59 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  First, Microsoft usually doesn't view much of anything as a total failure. Like many, they view their mistakes as market research. When they do something really wrong, they learn from it.
  Bob may have been a failure, but they learned a lot from it, and it lead to other products like the (also abhorred but largely successful) MS Agent technology (aka clippy, fido, etc..)
  Neither ME or Vista were failures per se. ME was never intended to be anything other than a stopgap. MS had intended to transition Windows 9x users to Windows 2000, but when that got pushed back to XP, MS had to come up with a stopgap for OEM's to provide new hardware support. It was held together with chewing gum and twine, to try and extend the life for just a few months more...
  Vista, likewise, was not a failure either, in that it was never intended to be a success. It was a "hatchet man", that was put out in order to get ISV's and OEM's to follow the new security rules. It was also intended to be really annoying so that vendors would fix their software to be UAC friendly. MS knew Windows 7 would come along and replace it, and by then the issues would be solved both in vendors and software.
  DOS 4 was just a huge steaming pile, though.
  
  --
  If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
31. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jmorris42 · 2012-08-01 07:08 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I can see where Microsoft is coming from actually. Dell, HP, etc. add almost nothing anymore. They all just rebadge stuff made in the same Chinese factories Apple, the phone makers, etc. gets their stuff from. So why leave the profits currently going to Dell and friends on the table? Cut out the middleman AND gain agility to innovate. The downside of course that with that vast 'PC' ecosystem out there competing it ensures that one lame batch of designers can't kill off the PC as a platform. And Microsoft has never been known as a 'innovator' or even particularly creative. They ain't no Apple. Heck, they have never been known to even play at the level of a Sony or Samsung. They better get really good, really fast because they have pretty much declared open season on the OEM partners.
  
  --
  Democrat delenda est
32. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Billly+Gates · 2012-08-01 07:10 · Score: 2
  
  Before they had a monopoly. OEMs had no choice, neither did customers. You ran Windows, whether this year's version sucked or not. If you were an enterprise you had the option to get your new machines licensed with the non-sucking version but end users just sucked it up.
  That is what is now in doubt. Will people just sigh and buy that PC with the Win8 turd on the drive anyway, because they still feel they have no other choice, or do they go ahead and move to a tablet. Cut total boxes shipped in half and the economies of scale come into question in a world where even flat sales is considered a disaster by the stock market. AMD will certainly be dead leaving Intel to carry the workstation CPU flag forward alone. Dell would survive but HP probably dies. Enough of the chop shops and builders leave and the flood of generic 'PC' motherboard and other parts start to dry up. That is the phones/tablets/consoles vs workstation future I worry about.
  I worked in a computer shop 2 years ago and we made tens of thousands of dollars uninstalling Vista and Windows 7 and replacing them with Windows XP. Many users even came and bought used machines because XP support was better. This was almost a year after Windows 7 came out too. XP is not going away as many view it as supperior (non geeks) and in many ways it still is albiet very obsolete and insecure.
  Sadly the non geek users I showed Windows 8 too loved it with one of my exgfs thinking it was cute and loved the fact it only had limited colors and choices as choices are all sooo scary. My father is non technical and has an IPAD. I showed him Windows 8 and he thought it was a relief from XP as it is was simple and could just point and click on the cute tiles to do things.
  I hope I am wrong as us geeks hate the damn thing and want to burn it. The desktop can be usable but I feel like its a downgrade or part of some crippleware express edition.
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
33. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by wzinc · 2012-08-01 07:10 · Score: 1
  
  > Few will question anymore that Apple is a dark force of DRM and lockin
  
  I would question this; Apple has fought for consumers and against DRM. Apple is super consumer-friendly and they listen to their customers. Microsoft == computing dark ages.
  
  "iTunes Plus downloads are songs and music videos available in our highest quality 256 kbps AAC audio encoding (twice the audio quality of protected music purchases), and without digital rights management (DRM)." http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1711
  
  Done.
34. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by MightyMartian · 2012-08-01 07:14 · Score: 2
  
  The problem here is that HP and Dell both have significant inroads into the corporate, small and medium sized business worlds (well, Acer and Lenovo are also doing alright there as well). If Microsoft sets itself up as a competitor to these companies, this is going to significantly alter the landscape. I can well imagine these companies looking at throwing resources behind something like Android and making a corporate version of it.
  I think if it's just tablets, then it's a pretty small portion of the whole and the OEMs, while probably not happy, will go along. If the strategy moves much beyond that, into more general purpose PCs, then this is a major shift.
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
35. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:17 · Score: 0
  
  I don't think Microsoft is going to die anytime soon, even if they were, it'd take atleast 10 years. Or 5.
  Who knows, maybe Win8 Metro will be great for the consumer tablet user. I can't claim that Windows Phone 7 is a bad interface, it's not. I just can't see using it for nearly the same reasons as an a iOS device.
  I quite pity Microsoft for the pit they've dug themselves into, a pit that's fading into obsolesce slowly, but without a clear path out. There is obviously going to be a market for office productivity in the future, but what form will it take? dictation on tablets? desktops? the cloud?
  The only real loss I mourn in this is the obscure games, especially strategy, that will be impossible to adjust to the mobile vision so many people seem to have. You simply need two free hands for complex games.
36. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jmorris42 · 2012-08-01 07:19 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  > I really wish Valve would do a general App store, beyond games...
  You don't get it do you. Value does, which is why they are prepared to run a Hail Mary pass; their balls are in a vise and they know it.
  Once the Microsoft Market takes over there is no place for a third party store. The App stores aren't about the improved customer experience. They aren't about security. The whole point of the App Store model is everyone saw Apple rake off thirty thick juicy points from each and every sale and Microsoft wants in. If they don't do it today, they will do it next version; only App Store purchased apps will run and any 'in app' purchases will be required to be fulfilled through the app store, exactly the same rules as Apple so no possibility of an Anti-Trust action cranking up.
  Steam on WIndows will be as impotent as Amazon is on iProducts.
  And yes Apple will also eventually pull the trigger on OS X apps being required to come from the App Store, and for the same reason. To them the question is "Do we want 30% of the sticker price on Adobe's Creative Suite and all those high priced plugins, fonts, etc?" And if you ask that question the only possible answer is pretty obvious, isn't it?
  
  --
  Democrat delenda est
37. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · 2012-08-01 07:23 · Score: 1
  
  DOS 4? What was wrong with DOS 4? I liked it. Didn't seem that bad to me...
  
  --
  Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
38. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by CohibaVancouver · 2012-08-01 07:25 · Score: 1
  
  DOS 4.0
  I'm no MS-hater (looking forward to Win8) but dude I gotta give you total cred-points for an excellent historical reference. Everyone hauls out the tired ol' Bob and ME, but referencing DOS 4 is a stroke of genius.
39. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by CastrTroy · 2012-08-01 07:28 · Score: 2
  
  Please listen to this podcast. WinRT doesn't replace .Net, and it isn't a "Runtime" in the same sense that the CLR is a "Runtime".
  
  --
  
  Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
40. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by CohibaVancouver · 2012-08-01 07:30 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  The IBM PC was the one strange thing in that you could install any OS on it.
  My TRS-80 ran TRS-DOS, UltraDOS, DOSPlus, NewDOS/80, LDOS,..
41. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jmorris42 · 2012-08-01 07:30 · Score: 1
  
  Question, because I don't have direct knowledge and might be talking outta my butt here....
  > The problem here is that HP and Dell both have significant inroads
  > into the corporate, small and medium sized business worlds...
  How many medium and large entities wouldn't already have an assigned Microsoft sales weasel hanging around to do the licensing deals? I'd think there wouldn't be all that many. Small is another story, but they will adapt to whatever the world gives em since they are generally not tech savvy and lack any sort of bargaining power anyway.
  
  --
  Democrat delenda est
42. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:31 · Score: 0
  
  IF and only IF you have the drivers to do that...
  Most hardware is a NIGHTMARE to "downgrade" due to drivers.
43. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:35 · Score: 0
  
  > Vista, likewise, was not a failure either, in that it was never intended to be a success.
  Vista was not a failure because OEMs were forced to install it on their machines. Thus it sold as many as OEMs could make.
  What was a failure was the OS that was supposed to replace XP in the 2003/4 timescale. Allegedly it was to be CLR based so that it could run on various CPU architectures, such as POWER/CELL. This would allow it to be used to build an XPC that MS could sell so that it could increase its revenue at the expense of OEMs.
  Eventually MS realised that it was not going to work and needed to get a new version out to satisfy the 3 year cycle of volume licencing having already missed one cycle. Vista was the result of throwing together what they had and pushing it out the door to meet the delivery deadline for the cycle - which is why the corporate version went out first.
44. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Billly+Gates · 2012-08-01 07:42 · Score: 1
  
  OEMS like Dell are great with XP support unless you get the cheapest Vastro or whatever they call it line.
  2010 era computers still had strong demand for XP so it wasn't a problem at all. Today it is more challenging unless you buy the corporate line which of course they have to support or the corps wont buy it.
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
45. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:48 · Score: 0
  
  I'm not exactly sure about that... it's gotten to a point where microsoft is, for all intensive purposes, a software developer... they don't have all that much say in the machines themselves. IF they die, sure, apple will become the industry leader, but there's too much space there to be filled by apple alone, and with LInux laptops already seeing commercial success, and the economy and ease of use for linux platforms increasing near daily... Let's just say apple won't be the only kid on the block (Captcha: Priority)
46. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by mcgrew · 2012-08-01 07:49 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Although I agree that W8 is a clusterfuck of epic proportions, a lot of what you say just doesn't hold water.
  That is what has changed, before they were an unstoppable monopoly and now?
  They're still an unstoppable monopoly; try buying a PC with a different OS.
  I'm not convinced customers are going to be all that happy with what is about to be rammed down their thoat.
  Their customers are OEMs and enterprises, not you or me. I'm not their customer, Acer is; I'm Acer's customer. Enterprise customers are likely to skip 8 like they did Vista, we'll see whether or not OEMs start shipping Linux desktops (I, for one, would be happy if they did).
  All at a time when their monopoly is threatened like never before.
  Their monopoly is in desktop operating systems and office software, where is the threat?
  The desktop PC itself is being questioned for most users
  For every home computer, there are ten in the workplace, the tablet may replace PCs in most homes, but I wouldn't bet too much money on it.
  Office is threatened by Cloud apps
  Pure marketing hype. "The cloud" is unlikely to gain traction among enterprise users, even very many home users.
  "The post Microsoft future looks like" Mark Twain, who said "reports of my death are greatly exaggerated". Mocrosoft isn't even in the doctor's office, let alone the grave. And if Microsoft went away, OEMs would just use Linux or Android or BSD. Computers aren't going away any time soon.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
47. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:56 · Score: 0
  
  I am a C++/C#/Java developer. C++ (even C++11) while being fun to code is awful for most things and inefficient where it really counts featured delivered per developer hour.
  It has it's place but it won't come back to replace java/c# in any great way.
  The "rediscovering native code" was primary to try to bring C++ to some level of relevance again with a decent UI framework and in the data center for areas that might actually require higher amounts of processing (hint, most applications would not).
48. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jamstar7 · 2012-08-01 08:03 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Windows 8 has gotten more idiot proof than usual, and that's what draws in people that don't already somehow have a PC.
  Thing is, make something idiot proof, the universe evolves a better class of idiots.
  
  --
  Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
49. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 08:06 · Score: 0
  
  Yadda yadda, desktops are dead. Valve will also bring DOTA 2 and CS:GO with them, so that's two new games there. They have already had multiple talks about why they're supporting Linux as well as pushing other big devs into supporting Linux.
50. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by bbbaldie · 2012-08-01 08:08 · Score: 1
  
  Bott either owns a million shares of MS stock, or else he has a gay relationship with Steve Ballmer. He has never, ever, ever written anything the least critical of this most criticizable company.
51. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jamstar7 · 2012-08-01 08:16 · Score: 1
  
  Sounds to me like an OS that can interface with the XP API and run native XP binaries might have a chance in the marketplace now that XP is 'retired'.
  
  --
  Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
52. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 08:19 · Score: 0
  
  You obviously weren't around in those days because hard drives were very rare & most didn't "install" anything. If you wanted a different OS, just insert floppy and reboot.
  Apple II had several different "DOSes", including the most popular version of CP/M (resold by Microsoft)
53. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Microlith · 2012-08-01 08:24 · Score: 0
  
  Best of luck getting Valve to convince other dev studios to port games to Linux at a huge expense, when the audience simply isn't there.
  I know, it's not there and never ever will be. It can't happen because only Microsoft can exist.
  
  Linux on the desktop is dead.
  Shows how awesome anti-competitive monopolies and lock-in are, right?
  
  I know why Valve is pushing towards Linux because the Windows 8 App store will eat their lunch
  Nothing like leveraging your monopoly to destroy competitors and further lock-in, right?
  
  Windows 8 has gotten more idiot proof than usual, and that's what draws in people that don't already somehow have a PC.
  All part of the forced, unilateral shift to locked down, lowest-common-denominator "consumption" devices.
54. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 08:25 · Score: 0
  
  Absolutely nobody cares about Dell as a "technology" provider. They are logistics companies - if a PC dies, they ship you an new one.
  It's pretty funny - Intel makes a gross margin of about 50% while Dell makes 5% -- broken down that way you can see who is really brings the value. It's "Wintel" not "WinDell"
55. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Microlith · 2012-08-01 08:26 · Score: 1
  
  Technically Metro is native. But doing things like JIT, which is required for non-shitty Javascript performance, is prohibited for all but Microsoft programs. And this applies to all Metro applications on both x86 and ARM.
  
  I'm betting then also give in and let 3rd parties port Win32 applications.
  The moment this happens we'll know that Microsoft has failed and not even they can escape the black hole that is their own legacy.
56. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by gman003 · 2012-08-01 08:27 · Score: 2
  
  If the rumors (which I personally don't believe) of a Linux-powered Steam Console are true, that's incentive enough.
  The Ouya (or however the fuck it's spelled) managed to get somewhat-mainstream promises of support, and that's for a low-power, crowd-funded Android console. You take Valve, possibly the best game studio on the planet (and definitely the best self-funded studio), who already has a large-scale relationship with most publishers and has experimented with acting as a publisher itself, and have *THEM* launch a console? It would get publisher support. Activision would jump on it. Zenimax (id + Bethesda) would jump on it. Rockstar would jump on it. THQ, if it manages to survive that long, will jump on it. EA would take some time, but if it gains market parity with Microsoft and Sony, EA will come around. Square Enix and Konami might move slowly (Japanese developers rarely move onto American consoles immediately).
  Now, most likely, the Steambox rumors are just that - rumors. But it's within the realm of possibility, and it would make Linux ports more attractive (porting from Windows to Linux is hard - porting from a semi-proprietary Linux to Linux is easy).
  Just idle speculation on my part.
57. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Microlith · 2012-08-01 08:28 · Score: 1
  
  They've tolerated a small amount of Microsoft branding
  Small? Microsoft gets the most important part of it: the customer's eyes all day long.
  
  if Microsoft rocks that boat too much, then Redmond better have a big plan to make up for what is basically the foundation on which the whole company is built.
  Microsoft knows the OEMs can't do anything. They can't drop Windows due to the fact that MS is still dominant in everything but tablets and handsets and Microsoft is fully aware of this, which is why they aren't hesitating to do Surface.
58. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 08:28 · Score: 0
  
  You are someone who simply resists change and goes looking for faults where there isn't any in a hope to poison anything that would affect your equilibrium.
  You obviously have been looking at Win7 with detest from the beginning if you haven't learnt just how much better it is at multi-tasking than XP. You're living in the dark ages to spite your nose.
  Also, I am running Windows 7 and can search contents of files on network shares, no problem. Proof: http://i.imgur.com/iRm8U.png
59. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Microlith · 2012-08-01 08:30 · Score: 1
  
  Dell, HP, etc. add almost nothing anymore.
  And there's nothing they could possibly add, Microsoft made absolutely sure of that a decade and a half ago.
  I'd be OK with Microsoft ditching the OEMs if and only if they spun off Office, Windows 7, Xbox, etc. into separate companies and went exclusively Metro for all of their products. Then we would see how far Microsoft's "innovation" would carry them.
60. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 08:33 · Score: 0
  
  sound like a typical apple fanboy :-)
61. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Microlith · 2012-08-01 08:33 · Score: 1
  
  exactly the same rules as Apple so no possibility of an Anti-Trust action cranking up.
  Microsoft is still totally dominant in the PC market. The store can still open Microsoft up to anti-trust actions.
  
  Steam on WIndows will be as impotent as Amazon is on iProducts.
  Which is bad for everyone but Microsoft, in the long run.
  Hopefully this control and greed fueled push to closed platforms will result in some anti-trust actions and some long overdue breakups. I wonder who will be first?
62. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by MightyMartian · 2012-08-01 08:35 · Score: 2
  
  Microsoft is no longer without competition, and if it starts biting the hand that has fed it for a quarter century, it may find that that competition suddenly starts getting a lot more attention.
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
63. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 08:39 · Score: 0
  
  First, Microsoft usually doesn't view much of anything as a total failure.
  Revisionist bullshit.
64. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jbolden · 2012-08-01 08:56 · Score: 1
  
  I love the DOS 4.0 reference! Yes that was a lousy OS but you can blame IBM for that one, PCDOS 4.0 was what sucked Microsoft was just following their lead on the DOS front for the last time.
  I think Windows 8 might work out. I see Windows 8 as potentially being a lot like IE 2. By IE 2 Microsoft had realized this internet thing was real and a real threat, and was aggressively pulling technologies into their browser. IE 2 was a a real browser while IE1 had been a research project. People would still buy Netscape in the IE 2 days but within 2 years after IE 2 they'd be up to IE 4, which was way more advanced than anything Netscape could do and frankly had a lot of really cool features that most browsers even today don't.
  Now while will open systems cost as much as a car in this new world?
  As for DRM I'm not sure that Apple isn't happy to play DRM either way. When media companies don't play along they side with consumers. When media companies do play along they side with publishers. But if you look at the history of iTunes, every song sold now is DRM free. We have today the market people always asked for, individual songs sold at a reasonable cost DRM free from a variety of vendors in open formats. Things don't always turn out so bad.
65. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by sapgau · 2012-08-01 08:59 · Score: 1
  
  Hey man, could you just remove the DOS 4.0 and Bob references from your future Microsoft rants?
  It's hard enough competing with all these kids that I can't even comment about how DOS 4.0 sucked because everybody at work will have no idea and it will just show my age.
  So lets recap from ME in the future mmkay?
66. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jbolden · 2012-08-01 09:01 · Score: 2
  
  Gamers used to be very willing to boot to a gaming OS. It was standard to have a "gaming" configuration of DOS and a "windows" configuration in the Windows 3.0/3.1/95 days. I see no reason if Linux had strong gaming support that their wouldn't be gamer machines sold with Linuxes tweaked to optimize gaming. That honestly is a pretty good niche for Linux, a place where custom kernel could really matter. And heck the hardware OEMs would probably love a product where they could do a real value ad and make some margin.
  I have no idea how big the gaming market is, but it seems to be carrying several midsized computer companies. So why not?
67. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 09:02 · Score: -1
  
  An updated version of XP?
  I pity the developers who would have to work with that antiquated code base.
68. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jbolden · 2012-08-01 09:03 · Score: 1
  
  The moment this happens we'll know that Microsoft has failed and not even they can escape the black hole that is their own legacy.
  I agree with you. Microsoft is going to have to take a page from Apple's book in killing off legacy cruft quickly but with lots of steps to make it look gradual so people don't freak.
69. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 09:04 · Score: 0
  
  Completely agree that the Nexus 7 is showing that Google is leaning evil. Why do i have to rely on third parties to gain root administrator access to my google Nexus 7??????
70. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 09:07 · Score: 0
  
  Here's what he's getting at: DRM-free music really doesn't matter if the consumer is using an iOS device, because the DRM is baked into the system. There's no way to copy the music without jailbreaking the device.
71. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by IntlHarvester · 2012-08-01 09:08 · Score: 2
  
  It was the Vista of the MS-DOS series -- everyone decided it sucked without trying it.
  
  --
  Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
72. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jbolden · 2012-08-01 09:15 · Score: 2
  
  Non-Apple consumer x86 sales are down 10% year over year. That tablet and cell phone replacement is already happening in consumer.
  It was great when there were generous margins and rapidly growing sales.
  It was good when margins tightened but sales still surged.
  It was getting kinda sucky when margin collapsed but at least sales kept surging.
  It got worse when sales flattened out.
  Now we are facing the real possibility of sales collapsing.
  Microsoft is doing what they can to fend that off. If they are going to fend that off they need to change the platform ecosystem: OS, hardware, development libraries, software... and they need to do this fast. They need to do this in a platform that moribund. Hopefully confronted with Windows 8, consumers start buying the devices they will work on. Dell, Asus, HP... now how to make those devices they just don't know how to make them for $500.
73. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jbolden · 2012-08-01 09:22 · Score: 2
  
  The IBM PC was the one strange thing in that you could install any OS on it.
  No it was just as locked down. Microsoft, Intel and Western Digital created the standard that allowed IBM compatibles to get compatible enough that this became a multi vendor platform with Intel and Microsoft in the driver's seat.
74. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 09:23 · Score: 0
  
  I often have many documents and browser windows open at the same time. Where in XP, I always knew where the document was on my task bar, in Win7 I always have to search through several levels on my task bar. Sometimes it rolls up into one button, sometimes it shows previews, sometimes it lists, and the position within the application button changes all the time, too. So, every time I try to open a document (one screen computer or two-screen computer - I have them both), I have to spend time searching where the document is listed now. And sometimes it shows all the tabs and other times it just shows the active tab in the preview, so you have to enlarge the preview to see what other tabs are hidden (that's similar to XP, by the way, but in the whole mess, it adds to the frustration.
  And really, the stability of Win7 is worse than WinXP in our case. I used to use the professional Win2K, which was a hell of a lot more stable than the Win95/98/ME line, because of the internal design. The later WinXP was a good combination of the Win98 usability and the Win2K stability, so we were more than happy to adopt it. This is the first professional Windows version that is a step backwards (if we forget about Vista for a moment). That's why 'upgrading' felt like 'downgrading', for us at least, but we didn't have a choice. Now we're used in statistics as if we 'upgraded' by choice, a selling point for a system we didn't even want.
75. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jbolden · 2012-08-01 09:30 · Score: 1
  
  They can't do that. The heavy duty applications don't exist for Android and won't be ported to Android anytime soon. Dell's entire innovation is customization at a low cost. They can't beat Samsung, LG, Motorolla at making 100m of one model. Android is the worst of all words for Dell. Same with Lenovo. Acer I don't know enough about.
76. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jbolden · 2012-08-01 09:32 · Score: 1
  
  Lots of medium companies buy Microsoft software indirectly to leverage up or get consolidated pricing. Large all have relationship with Microsoft but the "sales weasel" might have the relationship with the guys in SQL Server and Dynamics and have no relationship at all with the desktop team.
77. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jbolden · 2012-08-01 09:35 · Score: 1
  
  How is there any more lockin on Metro than on GDI/.NET? Metro if anything seems somewhat more open.
78. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-08-01 09:37 · Score: 1
  
  So Google and Moz are pissed that only Microsoft can get to native code but googling does seem to confirm that some layer other than just the hyped html5 stuff is being partly exposed on ARM but Metro is the only permitted API. Confusing.
  What's confusing here?
  Windows Runtime is the new API. It's deliberately designed in such a way that it can be conveniently exposed to C++ and .NET and JS, without having to reimplement it for either one or to manually wrap it.
  Native code is there. .NET is there (with WinRT, but also with the core set of the usual .NET libraries like collections). JS/HTML5 is a new addition, but you don't have to use it. Or you can use it for UI and write all compute-intensive logic in C++.
79. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by gbjbaanb · 2012-08-01 09:39 · Score: 0
  
  C++ (even C++11) while being fun to code is awful for most things and inefficient where it really counts featured delivered per developer hour.
  no, that was then. Today we're coding for cloud and mobile apps, and for these environments the thing that really counts is performance per dollar. (dollars measured in electricity). For mobile this means better battery life and for the cloud it means more concurrent users.
  The old days where you could rely on having 3ghz quad core CPU all to yourself are over, so now the cost of the developer is minimal compared to the overall cost of running your apps. This is why C++ is back on the agenda at MS.
  As it is, I never had much problem with coding C++, it's not that bad at all, and sometimes less wordy than the objects-and-properties-everywhere code that Java and C# use.
  I think they still need a better UI toolkit though, and the C++ standards body needs to work on a modules system for it.
80. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jbolden · 2012-08-01 09:41 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Apple doesn't make much money from the App store, even on iOS where it is mandatory. The cost of the App store covers the cost Apple overseeing and supervising the apps. What it does do, is make customers feel comfortable installing anything. And that allows for direct comparisons which drive the cost of software way down, which makes the hardware more valuable.
  Interestingly its seem to have had that impact on high end apps as well, driving the cost of Apple's software down about 80%. Logic is down from $1k to $200, Aperture from $500 to $80, etc..
81. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-08-01 09:43 · Score: 1
  
  All native and cloud development is moving towards C++ again, so .NET is left as a desktop development environment.
  
  You've got it about as wrong as possible. Most of new .NET work these days is, in fact, in and around the cloud. Remember Scott Guthrie? He's the lead of Azure platform team now (which pretty much means dev tools). ASP.NET MVC, WebMatrix etc - it's all there.
  On the other hand, on the client (yes, including Metro), .NET now has to compete against C+ and HTML5/JS. But no, it's not a "you can, but" kind of thing. In fact, .NET is still the most convenient way to write Metro apps, because it has language level support for task-based asynchrony in C# and VB - and async APIs are very prominent in Metro & WinRT. In C++ and JS, you have to manually chain callbacks, Node.js style. In C# and VB, you write code pretty much as if it was synchronous, with an occasional "await" to obtain the result of a task, and let the compiler transform that to continuation-passing style for you. Much more concise and readable.
82. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 09:59 · Score: 0
  
  Maybe you should research Valve's cut on Steam.
83. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Nerdfest · 2012-08-01 10:09 · Score: 2
  
  I'm fairly sure that software in Metro is only available through the Microsoft 'market' and must be 'vetted' by them. They get a cut of all sales as well of course.
84. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by hairyfeet · 2012-08-01 10:11 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Dude look YOU know what this is and I know what this is...its a Hail Mary pass. MSFT is finally starting to realize that one we hit muilticore PCs went from being the needed to constantly upgrade of the MHz wars right past good enough and into insanely overpowered territory for a good 80-90% of the buying public. What is Joe Average User or Bill Businessman gonna use their PC for that needs more than a Phenom I quad or even a Core Duo? As a PC seller and repairman I can tell you the answer is "not a damned thing" as I have plenty of customers on those first gen Phenom triples and quads or Intel Duos and quads and other than adding more RAM or HDD space those units are insanely overpowered compared to the work they have.
  So all those users aren't gonna be buying new PCs until those die which could take years Hell I've done upgraded them to Win 7 and I can easily see those units lasting until win 7 goes EOL in 2020 because frankly? They're not even being stressed, the users just can't feed these multicore monsters enough useful work to really heat the chips. Hell I'm seeing the same thing with laptops, the work people do when mobile is pretty much netbook territory, webmail, surfing, videos, a little light office work, so even the laptops aren't getting slammed and thus just not wearing out like they used to. Oh there will always be people buying PCs, the gamers, the content creators, those that kill their current unit, but there isn't gonna be the kind of growth that gives wall street a stiffie.
  So Win 8 is a Hail Mary pass for MSFT, a way for them to take one more shot at the juicy tablet/smartphone brass ring. Will it work? Doubtful but at this point MSFT really has nothing to lose by trying it. If businesses and consumers balk unlike with Vista where all they had to offer was a creaky old XP with 32 bit limitations now they can just say "Fine take Windows 7" and not lose anything. After all its not like they don't already pretty much own desktops and laptops. But by trying it now, when many are just now looking at Win 7 they think they can get people used to the "Metro" UI and then they won't balk when they see a WinPhone or WinTab like they have with WinPhone 7.
  Would I have done it that way? Nope I think its a dumb move, they should have spun off mobile and let them innovate without being tied to the legacy of Windows and Office. But frankly at this point MSFT really has nothing to lose, as the money they blow on win 8 if it flops is nothing compared to how they will be tied to X86 which honestly will probably stay at the current numbers with zero growth unless some "killer app" comes along that can actually strain these monsters and we're not seeing that, even in gaming anymore for the most part. So they might as well throw the Hail Mary and see if they can pick up some ground because the clock is running out and they are waaaay behind in the game.
  
  --
  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
85. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by art123 · 2012-08-01 10:15 · Score: 2
  
  Did you just put .NET in the does not work pile and Objective-C in the does work? I think I see flying pigs out my window.
  You sound like you know nothing about Microsoft APIs. MFC is a C++ framework to make Win32 UIs a little easier to write. WinForms is the managed wrapper for Win32 UIs. WFC has nothing to do with UIs.
  The OS team at Microsoft has always been about C and COM. Nothing has changed.
86. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 10:19 · Score: 0
  
  "Do we want 30% of the sticker price on Adobe's Creative Suite and all those high priced plugins, fonts, etc?" And if you ask that question the only possible answer is pretty obvious, isn't it?
  Yes, the answer is Adobe abandons OS X as a platform. There is no way in hell they'll develop a product of the caliber they do and let Apple take 30%. They have no need of an app store model to get word out on their product and get it into the hands of users. If Apple should pull a stunt like that, hopefully Adobe will put out their flagship products for Linux (unlikely, but we can dream).
87. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 10:23 · Score: 0
  
  Actually, people do have an alternative: Windows 7.
  I'm doubt that Microsoft actually expects desktop users to buy Windows 8 given the horrendous reviews it is likely to get. Since Microsoft gets paid either way, they might not really care whether desktop users migrate at this point. The important thing is to get a foothold in the tablet market.
88. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 10:25 · Score: 0
  
  What happens to your huge steam library if Valve goes out of business? I am missing something like a "community promise" that in this case you'd be able to convert all the games into standalone games. Right now it's more like buying the privilegue to access a game through steam than buying a game...
89. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 10:36 · Score: 0
  
  There is one.
  Line-out Line-in
  What you mean is, there is no good and easy one. :)
90. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jbolden · 2012-08-01 10:46 · Score: 1
  
  I had forgotten about that. Point to you. That is much worse than GDI/.NET. I don't think Microsoft is going to be able to maintain that discipline. Apple which has a cult like following offers the App Store as an option on OSX and is still having trouble finding the right balance. That's interesting it is likely to keep .NET alive for a long long time unless Windows 9 breaks .NET compatibility
91. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 10:51 · Score: 0
  
  Why can no one understand the difference between THEN and THAN these days! Man it pisses me off..
92. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by MindlessAutomata · 2012-08-01 10:54 · Score: 2
  
  Not to mention a lot of Vista's problems were due to driver issues and not necessarily MS's
93. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 11:10 · Score: 0
  
  Holy shit, are you high? The Nexus 7 is completely open on a totally stock version of Android. It's one of the most hackable devices out at the moment.
94. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 11:18 · Score: 0
  
  What problems Metro would cause to users in the long run? Loss of karma points?
  Give me a break.
95. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by theurge14 · 2012-08-01 11:46 · Score: 1
  
  Steam already coexists with the App Store on OS X.
96. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jmorris42 · 2012-08-01 12:44 · Score: 1
  
  Why wouldn't they? How many people buy directly from Adobe's webstore? Any other distribution chain is going to rake off at least thirty points. And it is a fairly safe bet that even sales through the Adobe site get put into the books with at least 10% to sales costs. Remember, even prime A list retailers like WalMart give up a point or so just to the credit card companies, I'd bet $10 that Adobe's web storefront is paying at least three, stuff like that gets a fair amount of chargebacks from fraud, etc. No, Adobe won't pull out. Besides, if I'm reading the tea leaves right Windows will be doing exactly the same thing by then so where would they go? It is the retailers who are f*cked.
  
  --
  Democrat delenda est
97. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 13:49 · Score: 0
  
  the concept is that your Metro code for the PC can also run on a table
  Well, it did initially, but Microsoft managed to shrink the Surface down. Or eventually will.
98. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 13:58 · Score: 0
  
  All of their screw-ups were intentional? Wow, that company really aims for the stars, don't they?
99. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 14:00 · Score: 0
  
  i want a steam for apps... not a store controlled by the os vendor
100. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by roc97007 · 2012-08-01 14:05 · Score: 1
  
  > Will people just sigh and buy that PC with the Win8 turd on the drive anyway, because they still feel they have no other choice, or do they go ahead and move to a tablet.
  Now, that's an interesting question. In the past, as you said, users just sucked it up and endured Windows because, for regular users, there wasn't anything else. There was always alternatives, but it took a true geek to exploit them.
  These days, it's almost the opposite. The kind of things casual users do, can now be done on cheap appliances. And say what you will about the locked-down nature of appliances, they get the job for which they are intended done without a lot of maintenance work for the user. That's a HUGE advantage over the PC.
  So, now we have a situation where, to regular users, an Apple or Android slate is *more* attractive than learning to care and feed a new Winders, and it's only the power users, the people who need more than what a slate can do, that'll continue with the PC.
  And I'm not sure there's enough power users to make a significant dent in sales. Microsoft may have to seriously lower their expectations.
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
101. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 14:19 · Score: 0
  
  and CP/M.
102. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jimmyfrank · 2012-08-01 14:44 · Score: 1
  
  Stopped reading at the end of .NET part, lol. FUD
103. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jimmyfrank · 2012-08-01 14:47 · Score: 1
  
  SL wasn't stupid, it works great for RIA that are a breeze to update & deploy. I developed GPS Tracking software for a new golf cart gps unit and doing that project in HTML/js would have been a nightmare. So, SL has it's place, I'm dissapointed to see it go.
104. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jimmyfrank · 2012-08-01 14:53 · Score: 1
  
  .NET is left as a desktop development environment? Where are people getting their facts? .NET will be the #1 development environment for metro app development. How does this sh!t get modded up lol.
105. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by stewbacca · 2012-08-01 14:55 · Score: 1
  
  ...and OS X is down from $129 to $19.99.
106. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jimmyfrank · 2012-08-01 14:55 · Score: 1
  
  Sadly, factual posts like this get burred while the bogus garbage FUD floats to the top.
107. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jimmyfrank · 2012-08-01 14:57 · Score: 1
  
  Most ppl that work at computer shops are clueless as well. Removing win7 for xp, idiotic lol.
108. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by fm6 · 2012-08-01 15:10 · Score: 1
  
  a corporation their size should have been able to see it coming and delay or abort the release of those turds.
  As a former corporate minion, I'm here to tell you that large corporations do not have enhanced turd foresight. Exactly the opposite. Large companies have big, clumsy bureaucracies that are staffed with people more concerned with covering their butts than getting things done. The inner cadre has a Charlie-Sheen-like faith in its own infallibility. It's worth your job to suggest that Emperor is naked.
  I can think of a few companies that managed to abandon the accumulated cultural cruft and stop making the same mistakes over and over. IBM under Gerstner comes to mind. Can't really think of anybody else.
109. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by TranquilVoid · 2012-08-01 15:33 · Score: 1
  
  Linux on the desktop is dead. It's linux on the "device" that has a chance.
  But what does that matter, what does Linux-on-the-device achieve? Devices are more locked-down and restricted than desktops so the benenfits of openness and user empowerment that were hoped for in the desktop era just aren't realised. It's a bit of a Pyrrhic victory (loosely).
110. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 15:58 · Score: 0
  
  Valve will go out of business at roughly the same time the Vatican goes out of business.
111. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Darinbob · 2012-08-01 15:59 · Score: 1
  
  Homebrew computers were bare bones hardware, CPM was separate and popular but not only choice. PDPs ran a wide variety of things.
112. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by siride · 2012-08-01 16:21 · Score: 1
  
  Did you forget about the decades before the 80s, and did you forget about minicomputers and mainframes even into the 90s? The idea of portable software came about around the time of Unix and didn't really catch on to a big degree until the 80s at the earliest. For a lot of computing history, portable software has not been the mainstream.
113. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Osty · 2012-08-01 17:10 · Score: 2
  
  Don't forget the reviled "Vista Basic", allowing OEMs to install Vista on machines it was never supposed to run on. Vista was a little too far ahead of its time, as evidenced by the fact that Windows 8 and Windows Vista (Premium experience) share the exact same minimum requirements.
  Still, Vista wasn't as bad as people like to pretend. A lot of the "bad" was around drivers as you mentioned, OEM issues, and behavior changes for users stuck in their ways (which usually tends to be the self-proclaimed "power users" more than "normal" users), and probably most importantly the extended development period and mostly public failure of the dev team (the ~2005 reset, for example). Judged by itself, with proper hardware and drivers, Vista was actually pretty good. Just the Start Menu search by itself was enough to make it worth it for me.
114. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by epyT-R · 2012-08-01 17:25 · Score: 1
  
  so instead of addressing his points, you resort to ad hom character assaults?
115. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 18:02 · Score: 0
  
  What points? He simply says it "doesn't work". Thats what a grandmom would say about the computer when you change the location of the internet explorer icon. On a technical website you either provide technical details or STFU.
116. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Billly+Gates · 2012-08-01 18:19 · Score: 1
  
  Really? How about those printers that have no drivers for anything other than XP? What about that medical app for the local optimistrist that uses a USB plugin to prevent piracy? Will that work in Windows 7?
  What about the loyalists who swear XP has more features and a much improved explorer over Windows 7? I am clueless? Well I got paid money. Now who is clueless?
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
117. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 19:25 · Score: 0
  
  Don't see why they would have delayed Vista. Wasn't perfect but it's still more popular than OSX.
118. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 19:48 · Score: 0
  
  >>They're still an unstoppable monopoly; try buying a PC with a different OS.
  Mac
  >>Their customers are OEMs and enterprises, not you or me. I'm not their customer,
  Demand drives the OEM's. If something is better then people will buy it e.g. Mac
  >>Their monopoly is in desktop operating systems and office software, where is the threat?
  Just take a step back and look at what the market can supply in 2012 as compared to say, 2007. The threat is that nobody will buy their OS.
119. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by uglyduckling · 2012-08-01 20:05 · Score: 1
  
  CP/M was 1970s.
120. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by qubezz · 2012-08-01 20:24 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Windows 8 has gotten more idiot proof than usual, and that's what draws in people that don't already somehow have a PC.
  Thing is, make something idiot proof, the universe evolves a better class of idiots.
  Idiots are so ingenious that they've written themselves an OS.
121. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Nyder · 2012-08-01 21:11 · Score: 1
  
  The IBM PC was the one strange thing in that you could install any OS on it.
  My TRS-80 ran TRS-DOS, UltraDOS, DOSPlus, NewDOS/80, LDOS,..
  Mine still does.
  
  --
  Be seeing you...
122. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 21:20 · Score: 0
  
  Obviously, but that boundary could have been made to coincide with the kernel (ring 0) boundary. That's not a normal function call anyway (with the differents stacks and everything) so switching from managed to native code there would be relatively low overhead. You'd marshall arguments only once.
123. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by gbjbaanb · 2012-08-01 22:04 · Score: 1
  
  no, sorry to burst your .NET bubble, MS is not going to make you as happy as a silverlight or VB6 dev, but their focus is no longer .NET
  Go for a google to see what Herb Sutter has to say about it, its his turn to inform us this time round (until they change their mind again). Check his stats for costs.
124. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 23:11 · Score: 0
  
  Not exactly. It's just corporate execs trying to save their butts.
  They take some numbers and build them up(or try to) in such a way that the worse ones are less evident and the best parts are prominent.
  Politicians do the same (I have heard many times(translated from my language) phrases like "We did not loose the election, in fact we won...just the other faction won more so they got to rule"...now call getting second on a 2 runners race(others take so little votes they are not even starting to run) whatever you want, I call it loosing).
125. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 23:23 · Score: 0
  
  > one of my exgfs thinking it was cute and loved the fact it only had limited colors and choices as choices are all sooo scary
  Your girlfriend could have had sympathy for this Joseph Stalin guy who used to live a few decades ago.
  He really had a passion for reliving whole countries of scary choices and options.
  Really, if people want some superior entity to make all "scary choices" for them they'll get it...And they deserve to really.
126. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jimmyfrank · 2012-08-02 00:17 · Score: 1
  
  If a printer won't work with win7, which is hard to believe, then throw it away. Win7 supports USB so I'm not sure why the medical app won't work, USB is a standard. If it doesn't, it was written by a bad developer, there's a lot of that too. Swearing loyalists is a generalization and does't hold much water. I get paid money too, what's your point?
127. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by svick · 2012-08-02 00:47 · Score: 1
  
  I think he meant WPF. But that does not wrap Win32 or anything like that, it's a “clean API refresh”.
128. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-02 00:58 · Score: 0
  
  LOL :)
129. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Krau+Ming · 2012-08-02 01:13 · Score: 1
  
  ...like evolved bacterial resistance to prescribed antibiotics.
130. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by siride · 2012-08-02 01:52 · Score: 1
  
  And not on minicomputers and mainframes and only really got started in the later 70s.
131. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Custard+Horse · 2012-08-02 02:04 · Score: 1
  
  My late father used to say, rather succinctly, "it might be idiot-proof, but it's not cunt-proof".
  Windows 7 is a great OS but a BSOD is more difficult to deal with as the 'easy' BSODs are fixed by the OS.
  Windows 8 I'm sure will build on the reliability but will also add an additional layer of complexity that will alienate the less technical users. OS X is similar in this respect - completely reliable..until the point that it fails in which case most people are pissing into the wind.
  There is such a thing as over-complication which even Ubuntu is guilty of...although it is the most popular(?) linux distro. I wonder is there is a corollary between these factors?
132. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by omfglearntoplay · 2012-08-02 02:44 · Score: 1
  
  Do you have any idea what a driver is? Just because something has a USB plug on it doesn't mean it runs on anything with a USB interface. Hello? Can I plug my USB printer into my car stero and print songs? WTF are you talking about.
133. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by man_of_mr_e · 2012-08-02 03:15 · Score: 1
  
  No, some of their perceived "screw ups" were intentional, certainly not all of them. Bob was not a success commercially, but it gave them a lot of technology that they reused in later products.
  Vista had many things that were intentional. For example:
  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/12/AR2008041201504.html
  
  --
  If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
134. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by randomsearch · 2012-08-02 03:26 · Score: 1
  
  > The post Microsoft future looks like a grim world of sealed media consumption devices for most and a return to 'workstations' for the select who can afford machines costing as much as a car.
  This should cheer you up:
  http://www.raspberrypi.org/
  Enjoy!
  RS
135. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-08-02 04:21 · Score: 1
  
  Given that I've actually worked on a Metro app, I dare say I have more first hand experience on the topic than most other people in this thread. So when figuring out what is what in Win8, I'll go by that, thank you. No-one knows what the focus will be for Win9 and beyond, but that's a different matter.
  Also, you do realize that hearing what Herb Sutter has to say about it is kinda biased by definition? Of course he's going to tell you about C++ revival etc - he's a ISO C++ committee member!
136. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jimmyfrank · 2012-08-02 05:12 · Score: 1
  
  I'd take win7 and XP mode, if absolutely necessary over XP any day.
137. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-02 05:33 · Score: 0
  
  ...
138. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by DerUberTroll · 2012-08-02 06:12 · Score: 0
  
  Finally. The chance to game on a real OS. Windows has to stay though. Makes a good botnet.
139. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by cavebison · 2012-08-02 07:51 · Score: 1
  
  Logic is down from $1k to $200, Aperture from $500 to $80, etc..
  Jesus, as if developers aren't devalued enough. As a developer, the feeling I have about my job has gone from "valuable professional" 10 years ago to "this far from being outsourced to India". Programmers used to be seen as rocket scientists, or at least impressive propeller heads, back in the 80's and prior. Masters of the arcane, there to help with our specialist knowledge and talented wizardry.
  Now we play second fiddle to marketing, and if it's not in social media nobody cares anyway. You're a "tech". A worker bee. And there are thousands of other worker bees waiting to do your job for 1/10th of your wage as soon as distance collaboration tools mature. When you're told you can work from home a few days a week, start to worry - they're just testing to see if they can replace you with someone who works from home is Lithuania.
  Or a 20-something who knows just as much as you do, because the technology changes so fast you don't actually get more skilled as you get older. Sure you're more rigorous, more familiar with good practice, but who cares about quality of code when everything's in bloody beta anyway! The UX guy has got all the Wireframes up on MockFlow for you, Amazon does all the heavy lifting, all you have to do is... SCRIPT it. That scripty stuff that kids get into these days. Geez, stop being so precious about it, it's not rocket science, it's just a web site!
  Hm, that went on longer that I'd intended. :)
140. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jbolden · 2012-08-02 08:46 · Score: 1
  
  I agree with you the situation is terrible. But this was not Apple's fault. When in the mid 1990s tech / computer salaries started to rise quickly congress acted quickly, effectively and forcibly to suppress wages in the tech sector. We live in a capitalist country where wages correlate very strongly with public esteem. The suppression of wages coincided strongly with the suppression of influence.
  The right solution would be a strong cross functional guild with protections, like the AMA or the state Bar associations. But tech people are too anarchist to go for that.
141. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Billly+Gates · 2012-08-02 09:11 · Score: 1
  
  That wont work with your devices. Especially if it is POS cash register system or if the printer is a special one costing $4,000 made for signage etc.
  Still people feel more comfortable with XP as that is what they know and they come into the shop asking for it or looking for a cheap refurbished. XP in 2010 was the defecto standard and only a few had Windows 7. We didn't like supporting it because it required more than 2 gigs of ram and customers kept complaining printers, scanners, and other things didn't work or why is explorer crippled etc.
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
142. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Tubal-Cain · 2012-08-02 09:36 · Score: 1
  
  developing its own hardware/software "ecosystem" (I hate that term)
  Well, what would you call it?
143. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by SeaFox · 2012-08-02 10:14 · Score: 1
  
  Is there anything wrong with Windows 8 besides the Metro interface, though? I went from XP-64 to the Win 8 DP and now the RP. The upgrade solved some issues I was having with HD video playback and some other apps. Metro is a stupid interface, yes. But I just click to the desktop and ignore it. I have my most used apps docked on the taskbar and my screen size is large enough I can fit a lot down there. I still get the UI hardware acceleration benefits and other under-the-hood improvements of Windows 8.
  What other reasons are there not to go to Windows 8 if I'm going to be paying for an upgrade regardless.
144. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by helix2301 · 2012-08-02 16:45 · Score: 1
  
  The general rule with Microsoft Windows is never use the even release windows Version Vista - 6, ME - 4, 95 - 2.
  
  --
  http://www.thetechnologygeek.org
145. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-02 20:11 · Score: 0
  
  Linux Console anybody?
146. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-03 01:08 · Score: 0
  
  end of life for .Net?
  Most major corporate development is now in .Net -- there are legions of consultants and developers working on this platform. Visual Studio is the premier IDE used by millions of developers every day. .Net run on MS phones, tablets and desktop PCs. .Net will only get stronger when Win8 comes out. It is not going away.
147. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by lyran74 · 2012-08-03 06:07 · Score: 1
  
  Apple makes good money from their App store. Their earnings report for 2012 Q3 states they've paid (cumulatively) $5.5 billion to app developers, which means $2.4 billion in commissions to Apple--hardly chump change. It does look small, however, in comparison to the outrageous profits they rake in from hardware sales.
  However, Apple has indeed managed to broadly slash the perceived value of software, a neat way of squeezing Microsoft. MS has seen the light, and it's why they're also going the ecosystem/integrated hardware/software route.
  It does give pause about what the state of open computing will be in ten years...
148. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jbolden · 2012-08-03 07:25 · Score: 1
  
  Apple makes good money from their App store. Their earnings report for 2012 Q3 states they've paid (cumulatively) $5.5 billion to app developers, which means $2.4 billion in commissions to Apple--hardly chump change.
  You are confusing gross with net. They have considerably expenses in running the app store.
  It does give pause about what the state of open computing will be in ten years...
  It is interesting, I have no idea. The desktop sector is getting fun again.
149. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Stalks · 2012-08-03 07:47 · Score: 1
  
  You can change the settings of your taskbar to mimic that of Windows XP.
  That is 2 things (if you're the same AC) that are false negatives. It seems to me you didn't go looking very far before you dumped it.
  And the software that runs fine on WinXP and not Win7, has that been written to work with Win7? Or are you just hoping that 10 years later it still works on a new OS?
150. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by lyran74 · 2012-08-03 08:43 · Score: 1
  
  You are confusing gross with net. They have considerably expenses in running the app store.
  I made no claims of net vs gross... but if their curation and hosting costs are even close to $2.4 billion, they're doing something very wrong!
151. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jbolden · 2012-08-03 09:05 · Score: 1
  
  Hosting costs are trivial. It is the cost of reviewing every app by hand and working with the developers. Remember how many non profitable apps there are for every one that does well. But each one goes through a review process.
152. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by lyran74 · 2012-08-03 11:42 · Score: 1
  
  $2.4 billion, 500,000 apps... are you suggesting it costs on the order of $4,800 in wages to approve an app?
153. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by jbolden · 2012-08-03 12:41 · Score: 1
  
  Don't forget every app gets approved or not in 6 regions and those regional approvals often involve multiple country approvals. I don't know what it costs, but at least Apple's claim is that they aren't really making that much on it. But that was back a year or two. The numbers are getting too large for that to be plausible anymore.
154. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-03 14:53 · Score: 0
  
  McGrew says:
  Mocrosoft isn't even in the doctor's office
  Well, true the last few times I've been to the doctor, they were using MACs.
  Hey...wait. Isn't the doctors office a business? And I work for a company that makes Project Management softwre. We are configuring it for mobile and the MAC as many business people are using the iPad. It seems to work fine for SaaS software. Oddly the plain crappy PC just doesn't cut it much anymore.
155. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by aztracker1 · 2012-08-03 19:43 · Score: 1
  
  Valve doesn't have a vertical monopoly on the hardware+software... or over 85% of the desktop market
  
  --
  Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
156. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-07 01:07 · Score: 0
  
  Understand your frustration, this is, without a doubt, a challenging time. However, do not think this is the end. MS HAD TO DO THIS. The sucess of phones and iPads required a competitive product offering. Doubt seriously that back end apps are going to die. At the end of the day we still will need new things that actually do more than browse and email. Open standards are not likely to address that very well. The iPad is a PC, and has expanded the market, not contracted it. People still need computers that do a lot of tasks. Custom apps are still in demand and will continue.
  There was hue and cry when dot net was introduced as well.
  By having a platform that does both consumers and business MS thinks it is back in the game. Have seen and used the software and it looks good. The only question is, will consumers buy it? The new array of ultra / convertible etc products will offer choice.
  The Surface should not be a threat to any OEM. Again MS HAD TO DO THIS to counter the iPad eco system. Same reason for opening stores all over. MS has to counter Apple to be in the market. It is up to OEMs to counter or do better than the surface. It is a "what can be done with this platform" product.
  This is a very awkard time, have been in IT 41 years and have never seen as much change and flux as right now. But change also means opportunity if we can guess right and prepare.
  So we will see . .
157. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Lonewolf666 · 2012-08-10 06:43 · Score: 1
  
  Windows 8 I'm sure will build on the reliability but will also add an additional layer of complexity that will alienate the less technical users. OS X is similar in this respect - completely reliable..until the point that it fails in which case most people are pissing into the wind.
  
  It might also alienate some technical, but not support-specialized users. People like me (software developer) who usually do their own administration, but not often enough to stay in practice with the finer points of tweaking the OS.
  There are two classes of people whom I expect to have no big problem:
  1) IT professionals who do babysit computers for a living. As in being sysadmins or higher level support guys. I think they'll get enough exposure to learn the new concepts reasonably fast and stay in practice.
  2) The non-technical end users for whom Windows XP was already too complex. They have to call a support guy either way.
  
  --
  C - the footgun of programming languages
158. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Teckla · 2012-08-10 08:04 · Score: 1
  
  Apple makes good money from their App store. Their earnings report for 2012 Q3 states they've paid (cumulatively) $5.5 billion to app developers, which means $2.4 billion in commissions to Apple--hardly chump change.
  Doesn't Apple take 30% of app sales? If they paid $5.5 billion to developers, their 30% cut is $1.65 billion, right? Or am I missing some other important calculation?
  Apple pays all the infrastructure costs that developers would normally have to handle, so a chunk of that 30% is money the developer would have had to spend anyway. It does not look like that bad of a deal for developers.
159. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Keith111 · 2012-08-10 08:10 · Score: 1
  
  Office 365 IS a cloud app... it is not threatened by cloud apps.
160. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by lyran74 · 2012-08-10 08:17 · Score: 1
  
  $5.5 billion paid to developers is 70% of the total raked in, which is (5.5/70%) = $7.85 billion. 30% of that is about $2.4 billion.
  It's a fantastic market Apple provides for developers, no argument there. My point is only that it's a very good little business for Apple. Personally I think 30% is a bit rich--20% or 25% would be fairer. But Apple dictates the terms--developers don't exactly have a choice if they want to develop for iOS.
161. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Teckla · 2012-08-10 09:01 · Score: 1
  
  $5.5 billion paid to developers is 70% of the total raked in, which is (5.5/70%) = $7.85 billion. 30% of that is about $2.4 billion.
  Ugh, sorry about my brain fart. :-)
  
  It's a fantastic market Apple provides for developers, no argument there. My point is only that it's a very good little business for Apple. Personally I think 30% is a bit rich--20% or 25% would be fairer. But Apple dictates the terms--developers don't exactly have a choice if they want to develop for iOS.
  Do you have any links to resources that document in detail the cost of running the app store? I do agree that 30% feels a little high, but some cold, hard numbers would be nice!
162. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by lyran74 · 2012-08-10 09:21 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, they would be... I've looked but found none. Trade secrets!
163. Re:Let the bitching begin.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-10 18:02 · Score: 0
  
  Almost all the Humble Bundle games already have Linux ports. And almost all the Humble Bundle games are available on Steam.
Let the derisive laughter commence! by Chas · 2012-08-01 05:55 · Score: 2

Where'd I put my popcorn?

--

Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
This can only mean one thing by l0ungeb0y · 2012-08-01 05:55 · Score: 5, Funny

Lotus wont run!
Nor much of anything else for that matter.
1. Re:This can only mean one thing by slashmydots · 2012-08-01 06:05 · Score: 1
  
  Is that because it would have resided on the start menu? lol.
2. Re:This can only mean one thing by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:06 · Score: 1
  
  Lotus wont run!
  Ok, I'm sold.
3. Re:This can only mean one thing by mystikkman · 2012-08-01 06:24 · Score: 2
  
  Lotus wont run!
  Nor much of anything else for that matter.
  Make that Lotus Notes and here's $39.99 !
4. Re:This can only mean one thing by rullywowr · 2012-08-01 06:38 · Score: 1
  
  Lotus wont run! Nor much of anything else for that matter.
  Lotus barely runs by itself...
5. Re:This can only mean one thing by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:30 · Score: 0
  
  I'm not sure I would consider that a flaw in Windows 8. Actually not being able to run Lotus sounds like a pretty big plus!
6. Re:This can only mean one thing by Desler · 2012-08-01 07:46 · Score: 1
  
  Other than masochists or sadists who force it on users does anyone voluntarily choose to run Lotus Suite?
7. Re:This can only mean one thing by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 08:12 · Score: 0
  
  And nothing of value was lost.
8. Re:This can only mean one thing by purpledinoz · 2012-08-01 09:20 · Score: 1
  
  Did they finally fix the 260 character path limit? This has been annoying me for years.
9. Re:This can only mean one thing by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 16:38 · Score: 0
  
  We still run Lotus Notes at work, too. God, I need to find a new employer.
Brace yourselves by Rinikusu · 2012-08-01 05:57 · Score: 5, Funny

Everyone on slashdot is about to become a UI expert.

--
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
1. Re:Brace yourselves by Sir_Sri · 2012-08-01 06:00 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  After using windows 8 for an hour you'll at least know what not to do.
2. Re:Brace yourselves by JaredOfEuropa · 2012-08-01 06:02 · Score: 1
  
  Pointing out flaws in a sucky GUI* isn't hard. What is hard is coming up wih a good one yourself. That is what makes a UI expert.
  
  *) or are we supposed to call it UIX these days?
  
  --
  If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
3. Re:Brace yourselves by gmuslera · 2012-08-01 06:02 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  start using it?
4. Re:Brace yourselves by Ynot_82 · 2012-08-01 06:03 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  As if the UI is the worst thing about it...
  Valve isn't lambasting windows 8, and porting all their games to Linux because of the UI
5. Re:Brace yourselves by slashmydots · 2012-08-01 06:07 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Well I actually am a UI designer (.NET even) and Metro is a crime against computing. Whoever invented it should be shot. No sub directories? The whole thing turns microscopic if you install too many things? Apps mixed in with what you're actually looking for? Ugh.
6. Re:Brace yourselves by i+kan+reed · 2012-08-01 06:10 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Everyone on slashdot is about to become a UI expert.
  Because it requires an expert on bovine biology to recognize bullshit.
7. Re:Brace yourselves by zlives · 2012-08-01 06:15 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  thats because you are viewing it in 2d only... its optimized for immersive 3d display technology on a 80 inch screen. just put on your 3d glasses and it will all make sense.
8. Re:Brace yourselves by CFBMoo1 · 2012-08-01 06:16 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  "Everyone on slashdot is about to become a UI expert." I'll have you know sir that not only do I have 40 years of UI experience but also AOEs as well. So I'm more then qualified to talk about vowels. Now consonants on the other hand I'm always QQ'n about.
  
  --
  ~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
9. Re:Brace yourselves by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:25 · Score: 0
  
  No, they're scared of the store and having to have actual competition.
10. Re:Brace yourselves by Eponymous+Coward · 2012-08-01 06:31 · Score: 2
  
  There are actually a lot of good performance-based reasons to adopt Windows 8. I don't like Metro with a mouse and keyboard, but I might still upgrade to Windows 8 for the performance improvements.
  The server side is even more interesting. AFAIK, this is the first Microsoft server OS that can be run without a GUI, using only PowerShell.
11. Re:Brace yourselves by NatasRevol · 2012-08-01 06:34 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  How? There's no Start button. 20 years of memory mapping, down the toilet.
  
  --
  There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
12. Re:Brace yourselves by Junta · 2012-08-01 06:35 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, but that's because MS is starting to compete with Valve. That in and of itself doesn't make the initiative explicitly bad for the customer, but it is the primary thorn in Valve's side.
  Customer's of course have reasons other than UI to be concerned. SecureBoot and what MS' plans around 'first-party' hardware ultimately mean for the industry are two particularly keen ones, but I don't know if that figures prominently into things Valve cares about.
  
  --
  XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
13. Re:Brace yourselves by JDG1980 · 2012-08-01 06:35 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Everyone on slashdot is about to become a UI expert.
  As Bob Dylan put it, you don't need to be a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing.
14. Re:Brace yourselves by turkeyfeathers · 2012-08-01 06:35 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Apparently, what is hard is coming up with a sucky GUI... I hear it took Microsoft two years.
15. Re:Brace yourselves by LongearedBat · 2012-08-01 06:39 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  I'm more then qualified to talk about vowels.
  
  Was I just whooshed...or was that unintentional?
16. Re:Brace yourselves by kat_skan · 2012-08-01 07:20 · Score: 1
  
  I guess this is what happens when your design language is about typography instead of about... you know... actually doing stuff.
17. Re:Brace yourselves by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:23 · Score: 0
  
  Courrier is a good font for an expert like yourself.
18. Re:Brace yourselves by ndege · 2012-08-01 07:52 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Win 2008 can run headless. Here is now to do it.
  The more interesting thing is that Microsoft now requires all server apps be able to run without a GUI. There was also a /. story about it.
  BTW, nice 4 digit /. UID. :)
  
  --
  Sig Return: 204 No Content
19. Re:Brace yourselves by slashmydots · 2012-08-01 07:52 · Score: 1
  
  I wouldn't be able to put the glasses on though after getting surgery for carpal tunnel and joint strain from constantly pressing my fingers into a vertical touch surface. The human hand just wasn't made for that!
  By the way, I guarantee you can I operate Windows better with a Dance Dance Revolution foot pad than my fingers on a screen. Full disclosure: I am a 3 time DDR tournament winner lol.
20. Re:Brace yourselves by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:52 · Score: 0
  
  Considering that nowadays all it takes to be a 'UI expert' is having a strong opinion with a healthy dose of egotistic BS (and a touch of OCD), it doesn't take much. Tossing around terms like 'awesome' and 'clean' and dismissing anything that was done 5 minutes ago with a sprinkle of anecdotal evidence is the new thing - until it's retro and then it's cool until it's not. Guess I'm to square to be hip. Or is it the opposite, I dunno. ;-)
21. Re:Brace yourselves by Hatta · 2012-08-01 07:59 · Score: 1
  
  No, it just took them 2 years to make their GUI even suckier.
  
  --
  Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
22. Re:Brace yourselves by vux984 · 2012-08-01 08:11 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  No sub directories? The whole thing turns microscopic if you install too many things?
  Uh... no... it pages.
  Apps mixed in with what you're actually looking for? Ugh.
  Uh... no... search results are categorized.
  I don't dispute that you are a UI designer, but I seriously question whether you've actually used Windows 8 yet.
23. Re:Brace yourselves by History's+Coming+To · 2012-08-01 08:13 · Score: 1
  
  As a user, yes, you are something of an expert on a user interface. The "real experts" do know a lot of things that are applicable to mass-market users and can say things like "90% of users will find X more useful than Y", but that doesn't make the 10% wrong in any way. My impression of the last few years of OS development (eg Unity, iOS, Android, Metro) is that two things are on the go here: firstly, a rush to very simple, basic interfaces for people who "don't get computers", this is a good thing for many users. The second is a rush to make their OS suitable for tablets and smaller form devices as that's where the majority of installs are going to be in the future.
  
  Sadly, this leaves out people who either want a more "advanced" interface (basically XP, Gnome2, what we used to understand as a normal desktop interface), and those who like or need to work on a device with a large screen and proper keyboard/mouse setup. There are two solutions, "screw the 10%" or "make it easy to customise".
  
  --
  Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
24. Re:Brace yourselves by binarylarry · 2012-08-01 08:18 · Score: 1
  
  Whoohoo a headless DOS shell!
  
  --
  Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
25. Re:Brace yourselves by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 09:01 · Score: 0
  
  That's what the guy who sold me on an acid trip told me. Bastard.
26. Re:Brace yourselves by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-08-01 09:48 · Score: 2
  
  See, that's what they mean by intuitive UI design - it subtly forces you into doing the right thing (or, as it may be, into not doing the wrong thing). ~
27. Re:Brace yourselves by jbolden · 2012-08-01 09:51 · Score: 1
  
  The 10% can flip interfaces pretty easily. Windows has always been skin-able. OS X has all sorts of productivity extensions like: http://qsapp.com/ and http://cocoatech.com/pathfinder/ . And of course there is KDE on Linux regardless of where Gnome goes KDE is designed for that 10%.
  You'll be fine.
28. Re:Brace yourselves by camperdave · 2012-08-01 10:00 · Score: 1
  
  The server side is even more interesting. AFAIK, this is the first Microsoft server OS that can be run without a GUI, using only PowerShell.
  Microsoft has had GUI free server Operating Systems. Back in the 1970s they had Xenix, a UNIX variant. Also, MS-DOS served both client and server roles for a short time.
  
  --
  When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
29. Re:Brace yourselves by LordLucless · 2012-08-01 10:07 · Score: 1
  
  The goggles, they do nothing
  
  --
  Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
30. Re:Brace yourselves by zlives · 2012-08-01 10:18 · Score: 1
  
  umm you are sooo suppose to use the power glove while in 3d mode...
31. Re:Brace yourselves by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 10:32 · Score: 0
  
  change for change sake is good for brain plasticity, seriously...
32. Re:Brace yourselves by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 10:35 · Score: 0
  
  lol I cant love this enough!
33. Re:Brace yourselves by mjwx · 2012-08-01 13:36 · Score: 1
  
  Whinging is coming.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
34. Re:Brace yourselves by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 14:39 · Score: 0
  
  Metro seems almost like some sort of desperate end game strategy for Microsoft as the desktop is saturated and basically 'dead'. (Even though we know the 'desktop' will never die) One thing I am absolutely certain of.. Microsoft is using their desktop monopoly to leverage a walled up software garden of their own. Don't think it's a coincidence that Microsoft 'linked' Windows RT (with locked down APIs) with Windows 8. Whicky poo.. Only Metro apps are interchangeable between 3rd party software restricted Windows RT and Windows 8? how convenient. Also with Windows 8, you can no longer develop 'desktop' apps at no charge as the no cost option of Visual Studio no longer allows this. It's obvious what Microsoft is really up to here and it's all about crimping and 'gating' 3rd party software development. Microsoft is essentially engaging in antitrust behavior (again) by proxy. The best thing to do is simply stay away from Windows 8 and that is exactly what I hope most people do.
35. Re:Brace yourselves by stewbacca · 2012-08-01 14:58 · Score: 1
  
  It doesn't take a UI expert to understand that a bazillion primary colored tiles on a large external non-touch monitor is a bad design. It doesn't take a UI expert to understand there's no need for a touch interface on such a large vertical surface, as well. So, it doesn't take a UI expert to understand that a design that might be ok on a phone or a tablet computer, is completely worthless on a desktop paradigm.
36. Re:Brace yourselves by stewbacca · 2012-08-01 14:59 · Score: 2
  
  Yep. Every slashdot nerd should be forced to read The Non-Designers Design Book. We all (generally) can spot a good design, but very few of us can say WHY something is good. Once you can say why something is good, then you can actually design things that are good.
37. Re:Brace yourselves by jimmyfrank · 2012-08-01 15:02 · Score: 1
  
  No sub directories? Huh.
38. Re:Brace yourselves by slashmydots · 2012-08-01 15:20 · Score: 1
  
  I saw a very early beta screenshot and review and completely lost hope in it ever becoming useable. I did not follow up on it, lol.
39. Re:Brace yourselves by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 19:06 · Score: 0
  
  This is Linux. I know this...
40. Re:Brace yourselves by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 19:51 · Score: 0
  
  Maintaining a vanity launch page is not the "right thing" as apposed to letting everything fall into an alphabetical menu.
41. Re:Brace yourselves by Krau+Ming · 2012-08-02 01:16 · Score: 1
  
  it's got appz?? cool. i luv apps...their so much better than programs. my phone has lots of apps.
42. Re:Brace yourselves by Rich0 · 2012-08-02 01:44 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, on an 80 inch screen running 1920/1080 - a whopping 13 DPI.
43. Re:Brace yourselves by zlives · 2012-08-02 04:23 · Score: 1
  
  hmm have you tried viewing from under water
44. Re:Brace yourselves by zlives · 2012-08-02 04:42 · Score: 1
  
  oh its a 4K screen :)
  to get the best 3d rendered app icons in the world :)
45. Re:Brace yourselves by CheshireDragon · 2012-08-10 07:45 · Score: 1
  
  Very true. What is that phrase?
  "90% of being smart is knowing what you're dumb at?"
  
  --
  "That's right...I said it."
my view by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 05:57 · Score: 0

Ready to the failure
TERRIBLE! by bhlowe · 2012-08-01 05:59 · Score: 3, Informative

I installed it this morning on a second drive.. The installer forced me to enter an email, my name, zipcode, birthdate, and sex to complete the installation. Are you kidding me?! Welcome to 1984.

The start menu is gone as are control panels and anything that resembles Windows 7. I spent 2 minutes searching for the "restart" command and eventually just clicked the power button. UGH... Terrible.... DO NOT INSTALL OVER YOUR WINDOWS 7 UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GETTING.
1. Re:TERRIBLE! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:05 · Score: 1
  
  So you've installed the finished commercial product and it asked you that? Or was it the beta that did?
  And why on earth do you expect it to resemble Windows 7?
2. Re:TERRIBLE! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:08 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Ive been using the beta for a while now. Yes a few things are oddly placed - you no longer hit start to stop your computer for one.
  The new start menu actually rocks - My start menu use to be a horrid mess where all I did was use the Windows 7 search feature - Which is now how I use Windows 8 - Hit the start thing type the name of what you want hit enter
  Windows 8 is in many ways MUCH MORE keyboard driven and geek centric - I like it really !
3. Re:TERRIBLE! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:09 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  For the RC^HP it was optional, but not that obvious (like a cop and reading your rights). In RTM you MUST use an e-mail account to install the non-enterprise OSes. You can make it all up but you will regret it.
4. Re:TERRIBLE! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:13 · Score: 0, Funny
  
  lolololol, you are pretty stupid.
  The installer didn't force you to do anything. You created a Microsoft web account instead of using a standard windows account. You can do both on install, learn to read.
  the desktop control panel is right where it always was, press start, type control, you'll see it.
  restart is on the charms bar.
  Windows 8 has a lot of warts, but if you are this stupid, you probably should stop using computers instead, maybe buy an ipad, or maybe a rattle.
5. Re:TERRIBLE! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:14 · Score: 1
  
  Hit the start thing type the name of what you want hit enter
  Windows 8 is in many ways MUCH MORE keyboard driven and geek centric - I like it really !
  And if you don't know the name, what do you do?
6. Re:TERRIBLE! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:17 · Score: 0
  
  you can also use your penis to open apps, windows surface rocks
7. Re:TERRIBLE! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:34 · Score: 1
  
  Give the boy a break. I mean he probably spent hours setting up his computer and installing it on a "second drive" instead of taking 2 minutes to install it in a VM like an intelligent person would.
8. Re:TERRIBLE! by JDG1980 · 2012-08-01 06:38 · Score: 2
  
  you no longer hit start to stop your computer for one
  The launch menu button hasn't been labeled "Start" since Windows XP. Sure, most of us still call it the Start Menu out of habit, and the icon used to bring it up is officially known as the "Start Orb", but your talking points are 6 years out of date.
9. Re:TERRIBLE! by Teresita · 2012-08-01 06:57 · Score: 1
  
  The installer forced me to enter an email, my name, zipcode, birthdate, and sex to complete the installation.
  
  And if you get your sex wrong, it aborts the installation, because everyone knows girls don't mess with computers.
10. Re:TERRIBLE! by Seumas · 2012-08-01 06:59 · Score: 1
  
  The release of Windows 8 is a great day, because it means we're one step closer to the release of Windows 9, where they will hopefully fix everything that is driving away people like me (which Apple is also seeming to do, which has already started to drive me away from them, too).
11. Re:TERRIBLE! by AmiMoJo · 2012-08-01 06:59 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  You just failed the Windows 8 IQ test. You are not forced to enter those things as all, you just couldn't find the "skip" button.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
12. Re:TERRIBLE! by Chemisor · 2012-08-01 07:11 · Score: 1
  
  When it asks you for the name, just enter "Chuck Norris". It won't dare ask anything else.
13. Re:TERRIBLE! by Billly+Gates · 2012-08-01 07:18 · Score: 1
  
  Actually there are some things I like about 8 if it were not for METRO. What is cool about the installer linked to your hotmail/outlook account is that you can log into any Windows 8 machine and have all your settings and even corporate apps if your office uses Exchange 2010/2013!
  It is like an internet global profile that links yours phone, laptops, work desktop, and xbox 360 live account together.
  Windows 8 would have been an awesome update to finally get people to leave XP as Windows 7 is really just a more secure and prettier XP to the eyes of users. Metro just really ruined it. Here's to Windows 9. Sadly Windows 7 is here to stay and even XP for many more years to come as releases like this scare the crap out of those who fear change and hate spending money. I have never seen IT so technophobic before starting with Vista.
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
14. Re:TERRIBLE! by bhlowe · 2012-08-01 07:22 · Score: 1
  
  Give me a break. I installed 8 to test one of my commercial apps to see if it worked or not so I could advertise "Works with Mountain Lion and Windows 8". And yes, I followed the default install options, because I figure most of my customers would do the same. Once it tested ok, I needed to shut down and get back to work on my 7 machine. Maybe I'll grow to like it. But typing in the name of the app you want to run did not work for a number of common control panels and setting utilities...
15. Re:TERRIBLE! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:22 · Score: 1
  
  In RTM you MUST use an e-mail account to install the non-enterprise OSes
  Um... no, you do not have to enter an email address to install the RTM of Windows 8.
  Care to support your FUD?
16. Re:TERRIBLE! by bhlowe · 2012-08-01 07:24 · Score: 1, Informative
  
  Not true. I would have had to create a local only account--which required a number of back buttons and RTFM. But I am testing my product for compatibility and I wanted to use the default installation. Skipping my birth date, sex, and zip code was not an option.
17. Re:TERRIBLE! by kat_skan · 2012-08-01 07:25 · Score: 1
  
  Why on Earth should he even have to find the skip button?
18. Re:TERRIBLE! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:26 · Score: 0
  
  "The new start menu actually rocks - My start menu use to be a horrid mess where all I did was use the Windows 7 search feature"
  Well, my Windows 7 start menu is a mess mainly because unlike Windows XP, I haven't figured out how to set it into a mode where I can re-arrange things the way I like by grouping similar programs together into submenus. Search only works if I remember the spelling of the program names. I think I'm going to have to give up and install Classic Shell. Thankfully it looks like they're working on Windows 8 compatibility, including being able to skip the Metro startup screen entirely.
19. Re:TERRIBLE! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:28 · Score: 0
  
  "and the icon used to bring it up is officially known as the "Start Orb""
  Oh. That's what it's called. I always referred to it as the "Orb of Confusion", which has a similar implementation in Office 2010.
20. Re:TERRIBLE! by Missing.Matter · 2012-08-01 07:30 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  I love how this gets modded +4 informative when it's completely factually wrong.
  
  1) When you install Windows it asks for you to create a Microsoft Account (which asks for those items, none of which you are required to be valid), sign in with a Microsoft Account, or run as a local user. You can choose to be a local user, where you log in with a user name and password and aren't linked to any external services like mail or calendar.
  
  2) The start menu is gone, so get used to that (although you can install a replacement that mimics it if you really want), but the old control panel is not, and the desktop including explorer is not. I don't know how you could possibly miss it.
  
  3) As for restart, it's still in the most obvious places it used to be including when you log out, or on the crtl+alt+del screen. They did move it from the start screen (because how much sense does it make to press start to shut down?), but moved it to the settings (along with wifi, brightness, and other common options) which is accessible from any app, including the desktop.
21. Re:TERRIBLE! by squiggleslash · 2012-08-01 08:05 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  I just moused over the Start button (sorry, the circle with a Windows logo in it) on my bog standard Windows 7 PC, and the tooltip "Start" came up.
  So yeah, you still press Start to Stop your PC. Not that that's a problem, it's just amusing.
  
  --
  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
22. Re:TERRIBLE! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 08:26 · Score: 0
  
  Except that the start -> run of Windows 8 is less functional than in Windows 7. With the same applications installed, most of them are NOT runnable via that method where they are in Windows 7 in my experience.
23. Re:TERRIBLE! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 08:29 · Score: 0
  
  Give the boy a break. I mean he probably spent hours setting up his computer and installing it on a "second drive" instead of taking 2 minutes to install it in a VM like an intelligent person would.
  I tried that but it would not install in vmware workstation 6.5. I sure as hell am not going to fork over $100 on an upgrade just to screw with windows.
24. Re:TERRIBLE! by gagol · 2012-08-01 08:43 · Score: 0
  
  -The launch menu button hasn't been labeled "Start" since Windows 95.
  Corrected for you.
  
  --
  Tomorrow is another day...
25. Re:TERRIBLE! by Old97 · 2012-08-01 09:08 · Score: 2
  
  So what is this button in the lower left hand corner of my screen and the label that says "Start" for? I'm running XP.
  
  --
  Very often, people confuse simple with simplistic. The nuance is lost on most. - Clement Mok
26. Re:TERRIBLE! by RedDeadThumb · 2012-08-01 09:42 · Score: 1
  
  The installer forced me to enter an email, my name, zipcode, birthdate, and sex to complete the installation.
  And be sure not to enter a birthdate that makes your age less than 18, else it will require you to get your parent's permission to install the OS.
27. Re:TERRIBLE! by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-08-01 09:55 · Score: 1
  
  When you do a search at Metro home screen (by just typing in whatever), there is a selector on the right that shows several categories. The default one is "apps", but there's also "settings" and "files" which you can switch to, and "settings" in particular does search over the classic Control Panel applets.
  Better yet, just fire Control Panel once in any way you want, then pin it to the taskbar.
28. Re:TERRIBLE! by camperdave · 2012-08-01 10:03 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  So yeah, you still press Start to Stop your PC.
  What is people's beef with starting a shutdown process?
  
  --
  When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
29. Re:TERRIBLE! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 10:24 · Score: 0
  
  and sex to complete the installation.
  
  and I bet the computer just sat there, making you do all the work, too.
30. Re:TERRIBLE! by randy+of+the+redwood · 2012-08-01 10:35 · Score: 1
  
  So long as you created your really.crappy@outlook.com address yesterday, like you were told to do here on /., you are fine. Just use that to let M$ think they know how to advertise to you.
  
  --
  The sun is the same in a relative way, but you are shorter of breath and one day closer to death
31. Re:TERRIBLE! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 10:54 · Score: 0
  
  The good old keyboard shortcut ALT+F4 still works
32. Re:TERRIBLE! by stewbacca · 2012-08-01 15:03 · Score: 1
  
  And if you don't know the name, what do you do?
  Turn in your geek card?
33. Re:TERRIBLE! by jimmyfrank · 2012-08-01 15:03 · Score: 1
  
  ZOMFG THE START MENU IS GONNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEE. Who the F uses it anyway, I'm so use to hitting windows key and typing what I want, I'm glad the n00bcaked start menu is gone.
34. Re:TERRIBLE! by stewbacca · 2012-08-01 15:06 · Score: 1
  
  Well, it's still Windows so there's no hope in ever getting rid of ctrl+alt+del.
35. Re:TERRIBLE! by epyT-R · 2012-08-01 17:00 · Score: 1
  
  if the new wonderGUI feature is typing in search boxes, why have a gui at all? switching between mouse and keyboard is clunky.. any design should work to minimize these context switches, as well as things like modal intrusions.. ie starting a new program should not steal the entire screen from whatever's in front of you.
  the fact you find the search box the most effective way of finding what you need suggests failure, not success on the part of metro.
36. Re:TERRIBLE! by epyT-R · 2012-08-01 17:36 · Score: 1
  
  why would we regret it?
37. Re:TERRIBLE! by epyT-R · 2012-08-01 17:44 · Score: 1
  
  scare the crap out of those who fear change and hate spending money.
  enough of this stupid ad hom already. it doesn't address the issues.
  
  It is like an internet global profile that links yours phone, laptops, work desktop, and xbox 360 live account together.
  
  What is cool about the installer linked to your hotmail/outlook account is that you can log into any Windows 8 machine and have all your settings and even corporate apps if your office uses Exchange 2010/2013!
  I can't begin to imagine the security issues with such cross workstation use of a windows user profile. I can guarantee that crumbs will be left behind with sensitive data in them. Seriously, why is everyone suddenly so damned interested in trading their privacy and security for small amounts of inflexible, user-hostile 'convenience'?
38. Re:TERRIBLE! by epyT-R · 2012-08-01 17:46 · Score: 1
  
  ...things are so stupid nowadays I can't honestly tell if you're joking or not..
39. Re:TERRIBLE! by epyT-R · 2012-08-01 17:47 · Score: 1
  
  good.. then we can get rid of the whole gui while we're at it, right? if you're gonna type everything, just use a damn CLI.
40. Re:TERRIBLE! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 20:41 · Score: 0
  
  So yeah, you still press Start to Stop your PC.
  What is people's beef with starting a shutdown process?
  Geeks may be OK with that. People - humans - don't think that way. I don't want to "start a shut-down process", I want to stop my computer. So I don't look in the start controls.
41. Re:TERRIBLE! by Nyder · 2012-08-01 21:23 · Score: 1
  
  you no longer hit start to stop your computer for one
  The launch menu button hasn't been labeled "Start" since Windows XP. Sure, most of us still call it the Start Menu out of habit, and the icon used to bring it up is officially known as the "Start Orb", but your talking points are 6 years out of date.
  My Windows 7 says Start on the start menu button on the taskbar.
  I'm in Classic Mode, but it says Start, so wtf willis?
  
  --
  Be seeing you...
42. Re:TERRIBLE! by jimmyfrank · 2012-08-02 00:19 · Score: 1
  
  I didn't mention anything about getting rid of the GUI. I simply don't use the start menu.
43. Re:TERRIBLE! by Arashi256 · 2012-08-02 01:50 · Score: 2
  
  True actually. I skipped it no problem. It was only later I linked my login to my hotmail account. Please bitch about stuff that is an actual problem, not just your ineptitude.
44. Re:TERRIBLE! by DaFallus · 2012-08-02 02:50 · Score: 1
  
  I don't want to ignite my car, so why would I put the keys in the ignition?
  
  --
  No one cares what your captcha was
  
  Houston TX, USA
45. Re:TERRIBLE! by Mia'cova · 2012-08-02 04:38 · Score: 1
  
  3b) Or alt+f4 on the desktop :D
46. Re:TERRIBLE! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-02 07:48 · Score: 0
  
  I know, right? I still press the "Go" button to "Go Nowhere", and the "Begin" button to "Begin ending".
47. Re:TERRIBLE! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-10 08:14 · Score: 0
  
  I don't get the griping about pressing start to shutdown the computer. People should start getting used to it as it seems all cars are moving to push button start/stop.
They make it sound like that's a long time. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 05:59 · Score: 0

For the OS for 90-95% of the desktops on the planet, two years really isn't that much. What this means is that like usual, they are going to have fixes for their quickly slapped together software weekly for the next 5 years, instead of just spending the time it is due.
1. Re:They make it sound like that's a long time. by zlives · 2012-08-01 06:19 · Score: 1
  
  no because guts are win7 rev2, its the UI that took them 2 yrs to develop.
  this is not a new os just a new UI
2. Re:They make it sound like that's a long time. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:35 · Score: 0
  
  Funny maybe but you MAYBE right. That is the sad part.
3. Re:They make it sound like that's a long time. by denis-The-menace · 2012-08-01 06:47 · Score: 1
  
  Sounds like what they did for XP.
  back then it was know as Win2000 with the Fisher Price interface.
  
  --
  Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
4. Re:They make it sound like that's a long time. by zlives · 2012-08-01 07:41 · Score: 1
  
  my thoughts are they were working on a windows xp tablet version replacement with win7 kernel and decided to name it 8
5. Re:They make it sound like that's a long time. by denis-The-menace · 2012-08-02 01:06 · Score: 1
  
  Rumours at the time were that they came up with a update that included a new interface. Updates were free but they decided to charge for it and Windows XP was born.
  
  --
  Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
In a word, NO! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:00 · Score: 0

Whomsoever early adopteth shall be damned since time immemorial.
They are ready to hit... by sinij · 2012-08-01 06:00 · Score: 4, Funny

MS is ready to hit START BUTTON with Win8 production.
1. Re:They are ready to hit... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:27 · Score: 0
  
  I thought that was to shut it down...?
2. Re:They are ready to hit... by mackil · 2012-08-01 07:44 · Score: 1
  
  If they can find it....
I can't not wait. by tetrahedrassface · 2012-08-01 06:01 · Score: 3, Funny

I guess it's time to upgrade from Me... is that even possible? I like Me. I feel like a failure.
1. Re:I can't not wait. by Moheeheeko · 2012-08-01 06:07 · Score: 2
  
  waitwaitwaitwaitWAIT
  You LIKE ME?
  There must be something seriously wrong with you.
2. Re:I can't not wait. by tetrahedrassface · 2012-08-01 06:09 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Yeah I like you... Is that bad?
3. Re:I can't not wait. by DeeEff · 2012-08-01 06:15 · Score: 1
  
  The esteem with which you hold yourself in is depressing.
4. Re:I can't not wait. by Yvan256 · 2012-08-01 06:20 · Score: 2
  
  Indeed. 98SE is the best!
5. Re:I can't not wait. by Teresita · 2012-08-01 06:40 · Score: 2
  
  I dread the day I can't find video adaptor drivers for Win98SE anymore. It's great. Least bloated OS that still gets online.
6. Re:I can't not wait. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:19 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah, Ralph, there were two main versions of ME, each handled drivers differently. One was a hybrid compatibility between the old way and the new way, and often crashed. The other handled them consistently and was no less stable than XP. If you bought the computer with ME on it or installed it fresh, you got the good version. Don't just repeat things because you've heard other people say them.
7. Re:I can't not wait. by WilyCoder · 2012-08-01 07:35 · Score: 1
  
  And you say this on a linux oriented website.
8. Re:I can't not wait. by epyT-R · 2012-08-01 17:50 · Score: 1
  
  what? no.. windows me, like win98se, supported both the old vxd kernel driver interface and the newer WDM interface. they weren't separate versions..
The Apple v Microsoft Eng Game... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:01 · Score: 0

I dont have a dog i that fight but it'll be fun.
Win8 Lament by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:02 · Score: -1

Here I sit
all lonely hearted.
Came to shit
but only farted
1. Re:Win8 Lament by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:14 · Score: 0
  
  Next time, I took a chance. Saved a quarter, shit my pants.
Waiting til Win 9. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:02 · Score: 0

Waiting til windows 9. Windows 8 is equivalent to the beta phase of their software. Windows 9 will be the polished release with all the improved functionality from user comments.
1. Re:Waiting til Win 9. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:19 · Score: 1
  
  Windows 9 will be the polished release with all the improved functionality from user comments.
  So you are implying then that you can, in fact, polish a turd?
2. Re:Waiting til Win 9. by Yvan256 · 2012-08-01 06:21 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft Windows Mountain 8.
3. Re:Waiting til Win 9. by binarylarry · 2012-08-01 08:20 · Score: 1
  
  Millions of windows users can't be wrong.
  
  --
  Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
4. Re:Waiting til Win 9. by Whorhay · 2012-08-01 09:21 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, you can indeed polish a turd.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorodango
I have to say... by UltimaBuddy · 2012-08-01 06:02 · Score: 2

I am not familiar with this new definition of the word 'ready'
1. Re:I have to say... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-03 03:04 · Score: 0
  
  Not ready till SP2 is out, amiright?
YAY!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:02 · Score: 0

Praise the maker, Windows 8 is ready!!!
Oh really? by theedgeofoblivious · 2012-08-01 06:03 · Score: 1

I don't know. It looks like Metro needs to be baked for about twice as long.
known features? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:03 · Score: 0

Judging by everything I've heard from Microsoft, article the only features are:
-Superficial UI changes, which are subjective "improvements" at best, and involve switching costs.
-ARM support, which only matters for tablets
-Some cloud bullshit which only matters for people with good, cheap internet connections.
So Microsoft expects people to pay ~$100 for what, exactly?
I'm not saying there haven't been improvements, but.. I don't know of any. Would it kill Microsoft to actually tell us?
1. Re:known features? by darkwing_bmf · 2012-08-01 07:32 · Score: 1
  
  Only $39.99 if you upgrade* before January 31!
  *This term is used for marketing purposes only and Windows 8 may or may not be an actual upgrade to what you're using now.
2. Re:known features? by jbolden · 2012-08-01 10:02 · Score: 1
  
  There is nothing superficial about the UI changes.
  As for the "cloud bullshit", well yeah that's a major direction in the industry.
  What were you expecting?
so... by slashmydots · 2012-08-01 06:04 · Score: 3, Funny

So, they removed metro?
1. Re:so... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 16:10 · Score: 0
  
  That's Windows 9. This article is about Windows 8.
Re:Windows 8 needs shills because it sucks by Jeng · 2012-08-01 06:05 · Score: 1

I mean really, just look at the posting history of whom I am replying to.

--
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
IIs too much like linux..... by who_stole_my_kidneys · 2012-08-01 06:06 · Score: 2

It is an absolute disaster on the desktop, looks silly, and works great on embedded devices \ single purpose devices.
1. Re:IIs too much like linux..... by Twisted64 · 2012-08-01 13:03 · Score: 1
  
  That comment is fantastic. No points, sorry, but I'll pass your wisdom around :)
  
  --
  Consciousness is a myth. Trust me.
I'll wait and see.. by HerculesMO · 2012-08-01 06:06 · Score: 1

I'm not a huge fan of the new UI, but I think I'll adapt. I am looking forward to the performance improvements though.
I don't spend a lot of time in the start menu as it is, so I don't think it's a huge loss to me, just a change in how I normally operate. I'm okay with change. But seems a lot of people, especially people in technology (weird?), have a HUGE problem with change.
The nice thing is, if you don't like it, don't switch. I don't know why such a huge deal is made of this, but Microsoft will lose if people don't adopt, and I don't recall them ever having struggles with Windows or Office which coincidentally, also got a huge redesign that everybody hated (and now everybody is used to).

--
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
1. Re:I'll wait and see.. by Jeng · 2012-08-01 06:32 · Score: 1
  
  The nice thing is, if you don't like it, don't switch.
  
  At home if my computer died I could rebuild it and still use my Windows 7 license key.
  At work if my computer died I would be forced to accept an OEM built computer running whatever is the current operating system, which is about to be Windows 8.
  I don't want to switch, but if my work computer dies then I may not have a choice.
  
  --
  Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
2. Re:I'll wait and see.. by HerculesMO · 2012-08-01 06:37 · Score: 1
  
  Then your work sucks -- we image everything here so if your computer dies and you get a new one, then you still get the corporate image on it. Which is Windows 7.
  
  --
  The price is always right if someone else is paying.
3. Re:I'll wait and see.. by tftp · 2012-08-01 08:46 · Score: 1
  
  At work if my computer died I would be forced to accept an OEM built computer running whatever is the current operating system, which is about to be Windows 8.
  Either you are working for a zero-bit one-man business that is clueless about computers, or you will get Win7. No business will even consider thinking about possibly deploying Win8 anywhere in their infrastructure - not for many years, and perhaps not ever. There is zero business reason to involve Win8, and lots of downsides (such as loss of productivity and new training expenses and never-ending whining from The Old Guard that this newfangled thingy is so unfamiliar.)
4. Re:I'll wait and see.. by Jeng · 2012-08-01 09:14 · Score: 1
  
  There is zero business reason to involve Win8, and lots of downsides (such as loss of productivity and new training expenses and never-ending whining from The Old Guard that this newfangled thingy is so unfamiliar.)
  
  Was there a business reason to involve Vista?
  Will MS still sell Windows 7 to non-corporate customers after Win8 is released?
  
  --
  Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
5. Re:I'll wait and see.. by tftp · 2012-08-01 09:49 · Score: 1
  
  Was there a business reason to involve Vista?
  No. That's why Vista is rare in business environment. Most companies migrated from XP directly to Win7.
  Win7 offered some business reasons to move. Some were in dropping support and sales of XP; other were in fact that Win7 is a better OS than XP as long as your hardware is fast enough. If you want RAM then XP is not even a player; XP64 was always a second rate product due to lack of drivers. XP may not even install on a modern computer.
  Will MS still sell Windows 7 to non-corporate customers after Win8 is released?
  I don't know any non-corporate customer (outside of a few self-professed Win8 lovers on Slashdot) who would even recognize Win8 as Windows. I tried my best, but I can't use it (I have Win8 RC in a VM.) Why would a common man buy a computer that he cannot operate? If Aunt Betty can't have a Windows computer, Apple is there to assure her that Mac is exactly what she wants. Since salesmen work on commission, plenty of them will be denigrating Win8 just to sell more expensive Appleware. The management will also give them a hint: returned computers are not good for business. And if a customer can't figure out how to log in... back to the store the box goes.
  If MS decides to drop sales of their best OS to date to prop up sales of a defective product then they will richly deserve all that comes their way. DVDs with p1rated copies of Win7 will proliferate and MS will not be able to do much because they are no longer profiting from that software anyway. Ballmer will be fired, and probably someone sane will take his place to make apologies and mend MS ways.
6. Re:I'll wait and see.. by yoshi_mon · 2012-08-01 10:27 · Score: 1
  
  ...(and now everybody is used to).
  That is your opinion. You may think that forcing change on people for the sake of change is ok but I did not need, require, or ask for that change. I was working just fine with the old drop-down menus. The ribbon menu format slows me down.
  And it is not because the ribbon menu format is different. It is because it is not better for me. Ok, for some people it might work better but not for me. And thus when you remove an option for the sake of change you did the wrong thing.
  Because this is /. I'm going to give a car analogy. What if all the car manufacturers decided to replace steering wheels with yokes. It does the same thing basically right? But you say I like my wheel, give it back to me. Tough, you take the yoke now and you like it. Everyone will get used to it right?
  
  --
  
  Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
Why force iterations? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:06 · Score: 0

What is gained by not evolving win7, and instead recreating hundreds of potential vulnerabilities since closed?
Torrent? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:08 · Score: 0

Normally we'd have been asking for torrents by now, but... it's Win8, Metro... so nah, I'll stick with Win7.
1. Re:Torrent? by Brad1138 · 2012-08-01 06:33 · Score: 1
  
  Still would be fun to play around with for a bit. I wonder if and how long before Windows loader works for 8?
  
  --
  If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
Poor poor Microsoft employees! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:09 · Score: 1

Wow, have things gotten that bad at MS that they're making you guys post this stuff to keep your jobs?
We all should take pity on the Microsofties.
As a protest against the treatment of Microsoft employees and in the spirit of PETA's ads, I will use Linux exclusively while stark naked.
And I will NOT use Windows or any other Microsoft product until the they treat the Softies better!
1. Re:Poor poor Microsoft employees! by mcneely.mike · 2012-08-01 06:41 · Score: 0
  
  As a protest against the treatment of Microsoft employees and in the spirit of PETA's ads, I will use Linux exclusively while stark naked.
  
  Jeez... I do all that just for fun! :)
  
  --
  soylentnews.org Go there to enjoy the people!
An auspicious date by Bonker · 2012-08-01 06:09 · Score: 3, Insightful

Of course there are many, many factors leading to the downfall of Microsoft. We've been reading about them for years as the 800 Pound Gorilla from Redmond has been slowly breaking its bones under its own weight.
Most people will point to the fact that Microsoft's failures have ensured that more people are using Linux worldwide than ever before... in the form of Android smartphones. MS *could* have had that market, but they continued to present shit products in the face of (at least perceived) quality goods from Apple and Google.
We've also heard in the last few days and weeks about how serious Valve is about getting their products to be 'Native' for Linux. We're going to see more of that, especially as more and more game designers want to develop for smart-phones.
Going forward, Microsoft's plans for smartphone development look pretty dismal. They're not even supporting their own technologies or frameworks, like Silverlight.
Ultimately, however, I think that shipping an WindowsME-bad desktop OS while this massive paradigm shift is happening is going to have long-reaching and long-lasting effects. Unlike when WinME shipped, there are some pretty darn good alternatives for development on both phones and PCs right now. When Win8 starts flopping around like a hooked carp, it's not going to be just the developers looking for an exit. It's going to be gamers and home-users as well. This time that exit is pretty darn visible.
And today is the day that flopping carp was hooked.
Captcha: resisted. How oddly apropos...

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The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
1. Re:An auspicious date by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:15 · Score: 0
  
  you had me until you used the words "paradigm shift". ugh.
2. Re:An auspicious date by keith_nt4 · 2012-08-01 06:47 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  I disagree that a bad Windows 8 will result in consumers/developers leaving Windows. If no other reason the simple fact is there is simply no alternative: Macs are too expensive (I've tried many times to convince family members to switch, always came down to cost). Linux is just a hopeless mess (ex. Less than a year ago there was a thread on slashdot about the state of audio drivers in Linux and not being able play two audio streams at once. An issue resolved in Windows more than 15 years ago...)
  PC gamers will continue to game on windows, normal users will continue to get their hotmail and check the weather on windows, and few businesses will want to take to the training time/money of switching to a different OS and compatibility issues that go along with it, although I suspect businesses would have stayed on 7 for several more years even if 8 had a traditional UI.
  
  --
  "UNIX is very simple, it just needs a genius to understand its simplicity." -Dennis Ritchie
3. Re:An auspicious date by Bonker · 2012-08-01 06:53 · Score: 1
  
  you had me until you used the words "paradigm shift". ugh.
  And it felt bad typing them. I asked myself, 'really, self? 'Paradigm shift?' WTF?'
  But the words are used correctly in the sense that the paradigm of personal computing is shifting away from natively compiled applications running on desktop and laptop appliances to scripted applications running on handheld devices.
  So I kept it.
  Another strangely apropos paradigm shift... er... captcha: horrify
  
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4. Re:An auspicious date by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:28 · Score: 0
  
  Back when I was in college, a "paradigm shift" was when a company shifted it's entire focus, like Duncan Doughnuts getting tired of "time to make the doughnuts," and decided to start making bandages. It exemplified the most drastic measure a company could take other than no longer existing.
  I could tell you about freezing and unfreezing with change control management (people not code) if you really need a nap.
5. Re:An auspicious date by squiggleslash · 2012-08-01 08:15 · Score: 2
  
  I think it's important to remember that Windows 8 is a reaction to the problems Microsoft is having. They're developing a UI that'll be consistent across their systems that will work well on phones, and Windows 8 itself is designed to be just as at home on a tablet as a PC. The only thing I can see that's potentially an issue (having not used 8 since the original beta, so it might have improved a lot since) is that Metro might not be ideal on the desktop, and might even be actively off-putting enough for Windows 8 to be Vista to Windows 7's XP.
  I admit as a free software enthusiast, I find 8 scary. It has a huge amount of potential, and if Microsoft gets what it wants, the progress made with Android in making a genuinely popular free and open platform may be reversed.
  They certainly have the potential. Surface looks like a genuinely good tablet; there's no reason to think Windows will be displaced on the desktop; and well, that leaves the mobile space, and it's possible, however unlikely it seems now, that Microsoft can use Metro to sell that.
  
  --
  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
6. Re:An auspicious date by binarylarry · 2012-08-01 08:21 · Score: 1
  
  You just need to start thinking fourth dimensionally.
  
  --
  Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
7. Re:An auspicious date by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 08:49 · Score: 0
  
  Forget the baseless slam against linux sound (I play multiple sound streams all the time). What the fuck does that .SIG even mean?
8. Re:An auspicious date by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 09:13 · Score: 1
  
  There is viable consumer alternative -- the iPad. They've sold over 100M of them, and that's coming right out of the bottom of the consumer PC market.
  Microsoft knows this, which is why they're desperately trying to tack tablet features onto Windows.
9. Re:An auspicious date by jmorris42 · 2012-08-01 09:45 · Score: 2
  
  > > "Fat people: the singing canary in the mineshaft of freedom" -Dennis Miller
  > What the fuck does that .SIG even mean?
  Miller was obviously riffing the whole Bloomberg vs fat thing. But he was wrong. The canary was smokers. When they came for them we did nothing, because the smoke was annoying anyway so screw em. We were warned at the time that it wouldn't stop there. It didn't. Now we calmly discuss whether salt should be banned instead of yelling "WTF! What sort of fascist f*ck would even suggest telling a restaurant that it can't put out salt shakers. Your political career is ovah!" In other words, the fight on the big issue of freedom is over and we are debating the style of the chains we shall wear.
  
  --
  Democrat delenda est
10. Re:An auspicious date by jbolden · 2012-08-01 10:05 · Score: 1
  
  There is no question Microsoft lost the battle for tablets and phones, they know that. That's why they are taking drastic action in consumer desktop. They (rightly IMHO) believe they are going to get knocked out of consumer by 2020 unless they push through rather radical changes. And losing consumer by 2020 will make enterprise desktop look very different by 2030.
11. Re:An auspicious date by WrongMonkey · 2012-08-01 10:06 · Score: 2
  
  Consumers aren't going to leave Windows to other desktop operating systems, they're going to leave the desktop altogether. Gamers will continue the migration to consoles and casual PC users will get tablets. Windows will be left to compete for the attention of power users, who are knowledgeable enough to consider Linux, and businesses, who upgrade their computers about every third OS release.
12. Re:An auspicious date by jbolden · 2012-08-01 10:07 · Score: 1
  
  8 isn't aimed for business. The business community has mostly not shifted to 7 and all the features on Microsoft's server products that are specific to later versions of Windows and Office.
13. Re:An auspicious date by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 13:04 · Score: 0
  
  Best comment in this thread.
  My theory is that MS is reinventing the interface for reasons having to do with fundamentals. They want a system that's easy to use for beginners and casual users. An interface where important functionality is exposed right on the desktop (i.e. the tiles). Everyone else will learn where the Start button hides (or adapt to the difference).
  Also history suggests that Microsoft can withstand a flop and return with a next version that is much improved. It's very plausible that Windows 8 will prove to be a clumsy effort at integrating Metro with the legacy desktop. Windows 9 may very well show a much more polished set of choices in that regards. Windows 8 is really version 1 of the Metro UI.
  And lets examine the impact of Metro/Desktop interface issues. Windows Phone 8 users will not care as there is no legacy desktop. Same goes for ARM based tablets. The corporate world is largely unprepared for Windows 8 and has a good alternative in Windows 7.
  So while it's hardly ideal, Windows 8 can clunk and it might not actually affect Microsoft all that much.
14. Re:An auspicious date by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 13:53 · Score: 0
  
  People who include their randomly-generated word capthas in the body of their posts are fucking morons. Any dick can open a dictionary to a random page, blindly pick a word, and post it to the net. But what the fuck does that have to do with the subject of their post?
  What a fucking idiot you are.
15. Re:An auspicious date by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 16:17 · Score: 1
  
  PC gamers will continue to game on windows, normal users will continue to get their hotmail and check the weather on windows, and few businesses will want to take to the training time/money of switching to a different OS and compatibility issues that go along with it, although I suspect businesses would have stayed on 7 for several more years even if 8 had a traditional UI.
  No they won't. They'll be switching to the new and improved Outlook.com. :) Basically Hotmail with a name change and a facelife. And the interface is much cleaner and nicer than its predecessor. Metro sucks in a lot of ways (ie. as a replacement for traditional window managers forcingly shoehornedon computers like desktop machines with keyboards and mice where it doesn't belong), but actually, the clarity and cleanliness of the actual interface is decent. And the UI of Outlook.com seems like a direct port of the Metro app as a web application.
16. Re:An auspicious date by epyT-R · 2012-08-01 17:07 · Score: 1
  
  how much did they pay you to write that? metro is horrible on a desktop.. it is NOT a workable compromise.. waaay too much clicking for baseline tasks compared with the old win95 model.
17. Re:An auspicious date by squiggleslash · 2012-08-02 05:24 · Score: 1
  
  How much did who pay me to write what? Because I really don't understand what you're trying to imply, given the rest of your comment is almost a rewrite of "The only thing I can see that's potentially an issue (having not used 8 since the original beta, so it might have improved a lot since) is that Metro might not be ideal on the desktop, and might even be actively off-putting enough for Windows 8 to be Vista to Windows 7's XP."
  
  --
  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Killing the Start Button... by jdastrup · 2012-08-01 06:09 · Score: 5, Insightful

Killing the Start Button is like building a house without a front door. Sure, I use the garage door 99% of the time. According to Microsoft, this is reason to get rid of the front door.
1. Re:Killing the Start Button... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:39 · Score: -1
  
  When the Start Button was introduced in Win95, it was widely derided on this forum and I think for a good reason. At the same time Microsoft came up with the flash of genius of placing the window close button next to the maximize button. Thank goodness the Free Software desktop environments exist so we don't have to suffer from those "innovations."
2. Re:Killing the Start Button... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:48 · Score: 0
  
  I thought for sure I would feel the same way, until I realized that my mac that I use at home doesn't have a start button. Huh, how about that?
3. Re:Killing the Start Button... by Brad1138 · 2012-08-01 06:49 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  Killing the Start Button is like building a house without a front door. Sure, I use the garage door 99% of the time. According to Microsoft, this is reason to get rid of the front door.
  Very well put. Same thing with Unity.
  
  --
  If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
4. Re:Killing the Start Button... by i+kan+reed · 2012-08-01 06:49 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Nice try liar. Slashdot dates from 1997.
5. Re:Killing the Start Button... by Hillgiant · 2012-08-01 06:53 · Score: 1
  
  I think they just got tired of the "click start to turn off the computer" help desk joke.
  Though I will challenge J. Random User to turn off Windows 8 without resorting to kicking the cord out of the wall.
  
  --
  -
6. Re:Killing the Start Button... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:59 · Score: 0
  
  And this would eliminate 99% of solicitors at my house
7. Re:Killing the Start Button... by Hatta · 2012-08-01 08:06 · Score: 2
  
  It doesn't have a start button, but it does have the start menu constantly unfurled at the bottom of the screen. At least the start menu goes away when you're not using it, and it doesn't conflate the concepts of program execution and task switching.
  
  --
  Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
8. Re:Killing the Start Button... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 08:35 · Score: 0
  
  Well, that and since the "Start" word went away with Windows Vista in 2007, the joke hasn't been funny for 5 years.
9. Re:Killing the Start Button... by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-08-01 09:57 · Score: 1
  
  It doesn't have a start button, but it does have the start menu constantly unfurled at the bottom of the screen. At least the start menu goes away when you're not using it, and it doesn't conflate the concepts of program execution and task switching.
  Um, have you seen the Win7 taskbar?
That's No Moon! by ilikenwf · 2012-08-01 06:09 · Score: 1

It's Billy Gates on a tricycle.
1. Re:That's No Moon! by Billly+Gates · 2012-08-01 06:53 · Score: 1
  
  It's Billy Gates on a tricycle.
  ... butt naked peeing with piss droppings flying everwhere where I then scream TODA!! ... and the talent agent just sits there for the longest time.
  Talent Agent: Hmmm billly gates that is an interesting act you got there? What do you guys call yourself? The aristocrats?!
  Me: No. Windows 8!
  Disclaimer. A reference to this very non-worksafe aristrocrats joke. Personally I find METRO much more revolting.
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
No local user account by default by rl117 · 2012-08-01 06:10 · Score: 2, Informative

You can actually just use a local account--but it's not the default, and is quite unobvious. It took me several minutes to find, after being very reluctant to send all that personal information to Microsoft. I think that this subterfuge to prevent you having a local account by default is quite naughty, and I wouldn't be surprised if they get into trouble for it.
1. Re:No local user account by default by SeaFox · 2012-08-01 17:06 · Score: 1
  
  You can actually just use a local account--but it's not the default, and is quite unobvious.
  
  Yeah, you had to read the entire screen to find it listed right there under the options of using an existing sign-in and signing up for a new account.
  I suppose you also set up the wireless connection to your router even though you had an Ethernet cable already connected to it because you didn't see the "set up later" choice to bypass that step as well.
What matters is the kernel by MSRedfox · 2012-08-01 06:11 · Score: 4, Insightful

Everyone complains about the new Metro interface. I've been running Win8 preview for a while now and while I've adapted to the new interface, it does still bugs me. But complaining about it is like arguing about KDE vs Gnome; you can castrate the Metro interface to look like Win7 with 3rd party software. What really matters is the kernel. It may break some applications and for those people Win8 is a bad choice. But from my experience, the new kernel is runs better than Win7 (which is saying a lot given how much better 7 was than Vista). Several games I tested got a nice frame-per-second boost (or at least performed equally) under Win8 vs Win7. So for me it's worth it to upgrade but I suppose your mileage may vary and as benchmarks come out we can see more about how the kernel performs on different systems.
1. Re:What matters is the kernel by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:31 · Score: 0
  
  What else should we use to control Windows 8? A Ouiji board?
2. Re:What matters is the kernel by neminem · 2012-08-01 06:35 · Score: 2
  
  Why would you want it to look like Win7? Win7's interface sucked almost as much as Win8.
  I do agree that Win7's kernel is much better than XP (and -obviously- better than Vista's), but I disagree that the kernel is all that matters - it certainly does matter, but so does the UI, as there's only so much you can do, and unless you want to implement it yourself, you're also reliant on the third-party software actually existing. I would know - I've modded as much of the Win7 interface as I can to behave more like XP, but while I have found decent reproductions of the old start menu and old taskbar, I haven't found a perfect file manager yet. CubicExplorer has a great UI but but is slow and full of bugs; explorer++ is mostly great but has a couple important file manager features (notably, file undo-redo) just not implemented, and doesn't seem to be actively maintained by anyone anymore, and that's about it for decent Windows file managers attempting to be XP-explorer-like.
  So yes, it -is- just like arguing about KDE vs Gnome: they both suck, and so do all the alternatives. I'd rather use explorer++, or for that matter, even native Win7 explorer, than KDE, Gnome, xfce, etc; meanwhile, if someone gave me a Linux file manager that was an exact visual-and-feature reproduction of XP's explorer, I just might run Linux on my laptop. A good file manager is pretty important to have.
3. Re:What matters is the kernel by MSRedfox · 2012-08-01 06:48 · Score: 3
  
  Okay, I concede the kernel isn't all that matters. The UI matters too; I just got tired of seeing non-stop posts complaining about the Metro interface while talks about the kernel changes seem to get glossed over.
4. Re:What matters is the kernel by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:01 · Score: 0
  
  It's taking a long time for Win7 to overtake XP, which suggests that average users might not switch to Win7 until they really, really don't have a choice anymore. That was the case for me, since the interface is not friendly for a true multitasker. I had to give up software and hardware that was no longer supported.
  Some functionality is no longer available, like searching inside files on shared network drives (unless every PC in the enterprise indexes the drives, which is not practical).
  I also found out after the switch, it's as reliable as Windows ME. Despite having a pretty good amount of memory in my new PCs, things stop working after a while, when memory is getting closer to the max, even while, according to TaskManager, there is still memory left. Initially we thought it was just caused by my high demands, but it now turns out that more and more people are experiencing similar issues, and we had to switch back to an old XP machine to get some of the processing done, because adding memory didn't solve it.It has been a very frustrating move. People that say it's just being afraid of change either don't use their computer to the max, or are blinded by the Apple-like bling we didn't want in the first place. While I'm generally an early adopter, this just doesn't work as well as XP, from the user perspective. And with Win8 it seems to get even worse, with even more hidden stuff.
  No, Win7"ME" has not been a success. Looking at the super-slow adoption, it looks like we might not be the only ones. Microsoft should think very hard. They should give their users a choice and provide an updated version of XP, that is secure, but provides the stability, simplicity and straight forward approach XP had. It might require some internal rework, but XP SP2 was big too, and it worked.
5. Re:What matters is the kernel by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:01 · Score: 0
  
  What exactly is it you're missing in Windows 7/8 Explorer that you had in Windows XP?
6. Re:What matters is the kernel by neminem · 2012-08-01 07:24 · Score: 1
  
  I haven't played with it much in a while (I mostly use explorer++ and just live with the drawbacks), but the most obvious things I remember just from looking at it for 3 seconds, are the total lack of a decent search interface, and the fact that you can't get hide or remove the useless context-sensitive toolbar (the one with random things like "organize", "share with", etc). I also recall having issues with it forgetting my having applied layout settings periodically (I want it to just always default to sort by type, and view as a list). There's also rather a lot of unnecessary vertical space in between items in list mode, which is both kind of ugly and also means you can't fit as many files/folders into the same amount of space. Having to press enter in the address bar to edit the path is kinda dumb, too, but that's nitpicky.
7. Re:What matters is the kernel by DrVomact · 2012-08-01 09:38 · Score: 1
  
  Why would you want it to look like Win7? Win7's interface sucked almost as much as Win8.
  ...I disagree that the kernel is all that matters - it certainly does matter, but so does the UI, as there's only so much you can do, and unless you want to implement it yourself, you're also reliant on the third-party software actually existing.... A good file manager is pretty important to have.
  I guess I don't understand the full dimensions of the problem you have with the Windows GUI. I fixed mine so it looks like Windows 2K, and that's the end of it. It was a lot easier than figuring out how to change the GUI on my Ubuntu machine, when I had one. As far as I'm concerned, the GUI should be a very thin, lightweight set of options that can be easily changed at the whim of the user—not a bunch of stuff that has to be downloaded from software repositories and installed (and then maybe even work).
  What is a file manager? I make a shortcut to my Windows desktop for all the disks on my machine, double click on the icons, and...well...manage my files. I can search for them, delete them, open them...what else do I want to do? I'm serious, I have just never said to myself, "gosh, I wish I had a file manager for my PC".
  
  --
  Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
8. Re:What matters is the kernel by Waccoon · 2012-08-01 21:32 · Score: 1
  
  So for me it's worth it to upgrade but I suppose your mileage may vary and as benchmarks come out we can see more about how the kernel performs on different systems.
  It's all nice and well to talk about performance, and the related, trendy talking point of efficiency and battery life, but this reeks of the tweaker community that spazzes out over 200 FPS in their favorite game despite the fact that their monitor updates at 60 Hz.
  The truth is that the kernel is invisible. You don't use a kernel. You can't see it. You don't interact with it. Even hardcore geeks don't care about it, so long as it's there and does all that nasty hardware management automatically so they can focus on actually doing stuff. Ordinary people certainly don't care about it. Yeah, it's faster and that's nice, but it can't make up for the heaping bucket of stupid that comes with it.
Wait, what? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2012-08-01 06:12 · Score: 3, Funny

They've released Windows 8 Service Pack 2 already?
1. Re:Wait, what? by nedlohs · 2012-08-01 07:04 · Score: 1
  
  Still on vista I take it?
Windows 8 by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:17 · Score: 0

Mobile Edition.
Year of the Linux Desktop? by DeeEff · 2012-08-01 06:18 · Score: 1

If Microsoft keeps this up, I'll be looking forward to the day that computer science grads have to pledge an oath to the four software freedoms, not much unlike Doctors and their oath to the tenets of medicine.
Perhaps there will be a light at the end of the tunnel, but I do worry that the light will require a license key.
1. Re:Year of the Linux Desktop? by Jeng · 2012-08-01 06:47 · Score: 1
  
  Linux has long lost the war on the desktop front, but they have won the server market and doing very well in the mobile market.
  I guess a good question is what is going to be the next change for desktop computing? If Linux developers can figure that one out before MS or Apple then Linux may end up with a chance at the desktop market.
  
  --
  Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
PLEASE!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:19 · Score: 0

Do NOT buy Windows 8. It is horrid on many levels. I have NO desire to have my desktop act like a smartphone. Its fine for smartphones and tablets, but fails on the desktop.
Everyone knows this is M$'s fail OS.
Windows ME Fail
Windows XP Awesome
Windows VIsta Fail
Windows 7 Awesome
Windows 8 Fail
Windows XX Awesome
DON'T buy it and let them go back to an awesome OS..
1. Re:PLEASE!!! by UnknownSoldier · 2012-08-01 06:57 · Score: 1
  
  You've forgotten part of history: Windows 2000
2. Re:PLEASE!!! by Stormwatch · 2012-08-01 10:10 · Score: 1
  
  I don't think "awesome" was ever a good description of Windows. At best it was "acceptable" or "tolerable". Interface-wise, it always felt primitive, clumsy, and nonsensical.
  
  --
  Circumcision is child abuse.
You would prefer Apple? by crazyjj · 2012-08-01 06:22 · Score: 2

but Microsoft just might be dying
Much as I might have loved that headline 10 years ago, now the thought of Apple becoming a dominant force in the PC market scares the shit out of me. Goodbye MS monopoly, hello Apple walled garden. At least MS has the common courtesy to at least try to hide their evil.

--
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
1. Re:You would prefer Apple? by 24-bit+Voxel · 2012-08-01 07:00 · Score: 1
  
  I don't see how you arrived at your conclusion.
  PCs are still cheaper than Macs (or even iPads), so they aren't going anywhere for business, which is MS's main market.
  Apples main market seems to be consumer, so I'm not sure how these two things are related.
"Ooooh, pretty colors!" Just be sure not to look by gatesstillborg · 2012-08-01 06:24 · Score: 1

...under the hood. Oh, that's right, YOU CAN'T!!!
They should follow the Chrome and Firefox model by Yvan256 · 2012-08-01 06:24 · Score: 3, Insightful

Announcing Windows 15!
Or you can wait two weeks and upgrade directly to Windows 19!
1. Re:They should follow the Chrome and Firefox model by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:38 · Score: 0
  
  Thurrott said Microsoft is switching to a yearly release model like Apple - sounds like they want everyone on subscription for everything...
  http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/microsoft-finishes-windows-8-143891
Now complete by sl4shd0rk · 2012-08-01 06:25 · Score: 1

as in completely borked.

--
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
1. Re:Now complete by Sponge+Bath · 2012-08-01 07:11 · Score: 1
  
  Too many Swedish chefs in the kitchen?
Old News.. by Penurious+Penguin · 2012-08-01 06:27 · Score: 1

Unity has been ready. Oh, pardon me; you're actually serious. Oh, you mean I have to pay for this one? So, it's like a more authoritarian Unity, but with a colossal license agreement, viruses and malware? What's this about DVDs? The Start Menu wasn't really removed you say? It was just ported to the subterranean Apple facility .....where?
I've had enough.

--
Forward! -- Emperor Norton, 2012
Windoze Have ( Score: +4, Seditious ) by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:28 · Score: -1

Never Been Ready.
Morons.
Yours In Peace,
K. Trout
Ready for what? by mdblake · 2012-08-01 06:29 · Score: 1

"Ready". Of course it is. The question is: "Ready for what?" According to Valve's Gabe Newell and others, it's ready for a catastrophe.
you FAIL 1t... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:30 · Score: -1

will not work. And who are intersted vary for different would you like to the numbers. the ALL ALONG. *BSD never heeded knows for sure what You don't need to if I remain
I dont think by Anomalyst · 2012-08-01 06:32 · Score: 1

that word means what you think it means.

--
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
And this is good news why? by xQuarkDS9x · 2012-08-01 06:38 · Score: 2

From all that I have seen on Windows 8 previews and even trying it myself on a different computer it just makes me think of "Ahh... Fisher Price Windows". IMHO it's windows dumbed down for the masses. The kind of people who are like Joe sixpack or Jane bimbo where both of them barely have enough brains to even turn on the computer. Nevermind actually configuring and tweaking windows to run better and with more security or even having a dual boot system with a linux distro installed in case a windows installation went south for some reason. And speaking of which they are even limiting you from doing that unless you want to run Ubuntu or Redhat.
I strongly feel that once Windows XP support runs out come April 2014 people will be forced to finaly upgrade because god knows how often do you still see Windows XP nowadays in businesses, hospitals, offices, everywhere practically, and they will probably upgrade to Windows 7 and we will see Windows 7 have a *LONG* support lifecycle like Windows XP has had for the last eleven years. I do not think people will want the fisher price interface in business, local, provincial, or even federal here in Canada especially if you can not officially disable the metro interface and go back to a traditional desktop with a start button.
But, scary thought here, I could be wrong and government workers worldwide may just love the fisher price windows and moving blocks around it might make them feel smart. ;-)

--
You must master your joystick like a fisherman masters bait! - Gimpy
1. Re:And this is good news why? by Joe_Dragon · 2012-08-01 06:49 · Score: 1
  
  OS/2 lasted along time in the field after IBM pushed it to the back.
2. Re:And this is good news why? by Whorhay · 2012-08-01 09:12 · Score: 1
  
  I'll probably be sticking with XP at home until window 9 or 10 comes out. We only went to 7 at work in the last six months or so, and that came with enough dumb changes in the way the UI works, even with Aero turned off.
  If Valve is able to pull off a linux transition I might make linux my new desktop OS of choice.
3. Re:And this is good news why? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 10:29 · Score: 0
  
  Secure boot restrictions are only on the ARM platform, not Intel.
XP SP 4 please? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:39 · Score: 0

It's taking a long time for Win7 to overtake XP, which suggests that average users might not switch to Win7 until they really, really don't have a choice anymore. That was the case for me, since the interface is not friendly for a true multitasker. I had to give up software and hardware that was no longer supported.
Some functionality is no longer available, like searching inside files on shared network drives (unless every PC in the enterprise indexes the drives, which is not practical).
I also found out after the switch, it's as reliable as Windows ME. Despite having a pretty good amount of memory in my new PCs, things stop working after a while, when memory is getting closer to the max, even while, according to TaskManager, there is still memory left. Initially we thought it was just caused by my high demands, but it now turns out that more and more people are experiencing similar issues, and we had to switch back to an old XP machine to get some of the processing done, because adding memory didn't solve it.
It has been a very frustrating move. People that say it's just being afraid of change either don't use their computer to the max, or are blinded by the Apple-like bling we didn't want in the first place. While I'm generally an early adopter, this just doesn't work as well as XP, from the user perspective. And with Win8 it seems to get even worse, with even more hidden stuff.
No, Win7"ME" has not been a success. Looking at the super-slow adoption, it looks like we might not be the only ones. Microsoft should think very hard. They should give their users a choice and provide an updated version of XP, that is secure, but provides the stability, simplicity and straight forward approach XP had. It might require some internal rework, but XP SP2 was big too, and it worked.
Vista on Steroids by rabenja · 2012-08-01 06:40 · Score: 2

I think that it will be some degree worse or better than Vista for Microsoft and users. As a CIO, and from what I have read so far concerning Metro, it will be a *very* long time (until forced to, such as when it is no longer possible to get OEM W7 installed) until we will be upgrading to Metro. To me it sort of resembles Mozilla thumbing it's nose at corporate users. The most curious part about upgrading to a new version of Windows for us is that pretty much the only problems that we face in the process are with older Microsoft products that fail on the new OS.
1. Re:Vista on Steroids by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-13 03:17 · Score: 0
  
  The most curious part about upgrading to a new version of Windows for us is that pretty much the only problems that we face in the process are with older Microsoft products that fail on the new OS.
  That's a good time to upgrade to Linux.
Someone's smoking their own dog food by awpoopy · 2012-08-01 06:42 · Score: -1

Quote from one of the linked articles:

The openness of the previews presents a unique perspective on product development, and we’re deeply committed to the transparency of the preview process. No product used by so many people in so many different ways is developed “out in the open” like Windows 8 has been.
Really? I think Linux and BSD products are developed more openly than anything MS does.
BTW: Flamebait ready mods
Sticks and stones make break my bones but I don't give a fuck about my karma.

--
I say things which affects my Karma negatively. (and I don't care) For instance; All religion is false.
Do they have customers already? by X.25 · 2012-08-01 06:44 · Score: 3, Insightful

Before Windows 7 came out, almost everyone I knew (that ran Windows) was *genuinely* excited about it and was planning to upgrade to it. And they did.
I don't know a single person that even considers Windows 8 (either as a desktop OS, or a phone OS). Many people don't even realize it's going to be a desktop OS, they assume it is a smartphone/tablet only OS.
I can only wish Microsoft good luck, because I don't think they understand what they're doing.
1. Re:Do they have customers already? by UnknowingFool · 2012-08-01 08:19 · Score: 2
  
  They were excited because Vista was bungled and XP was really old. I think MS knows that people will hate Win 8. For MS, it is not about improving the desktop for endusers. It is about forcing their way into the mobile space. Had they developed a separate OS for mobile like iOS or Android, they would have fewer developers (see WP7). With Win 8, developers have to develop for Metro whether they want to or not.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
2. Re:Do they have customers already? by jbolden · 2012-08-01 10:14 · Score: 1
  
  They do understand what they are doing. For the first time in over a decade really leading the x86 platform. Honestly I like seeing the old Microsoft.
  End users who are used to a moribund platform are going to be shocked how fast Microsoft can change the game when their profits are threatened.
3. Re:Do they have customers already? by jbolden · 2012-08-01 10:16 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly. A unified platform approach.
4. Re:Do they have customers already? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 10:53 · Score: 0
  
  well im one of them.. does that count?
5. Re:Do they have customers already? by MindlessAutomata · 2012-08-01 11:03 · Score: 1
  
  I'm pretty sure this is exactly it and I would have upvoted you had I not already commented earlier.
6. Re:Do they have customers already? by UnknowingFool · 2012-08-01 11:05 · Score: 1
  
  A forced uniform approach. Even if every desktop has a touch screen, Metro is not very usable for desktops.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
7. Re:Do they have customers already? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 11:33 · Score: 0
  
  Windows 8 could have shat rainbows, and businesses wouldn't migrate to it because they just bought Windows 7. Why would Microsoft target them?
8. Re:Do they have customers already? by jbolden · 2012-08-01 11:59 · Score: 1
  
  Why? What goes wrong once people have say a good quality laptop with a capacitive touchscreen, a good quality trackpad ...? What doesn't work?
9. Re:Do they have customers already? by toddestan · 2012-08-01 15:30 · Score: 1
  
  I can only wish Microsoft good luck, because I don't think they understand what they're doing.
  They know exactly what they are doing. Just think of how excited everyone is going to be over Windows 9!
10. Re:Do they have customers already? by epyT-R · 2012-08-01 18:01 · Score: 1
  
  fingerprints..
11. Re:Do they have customers already? by hairyfish · 2012-08-01 23:34 · Score: 1
  
  I can only wish Microsoft good luck, because I don't think they understand what they're doing.
  I'm pretty sure I heard this exact same argument when the hardcore DOS users were faced with Win95. What is different this time around? New OS, new ways of doing things, clever and young people will adapt and move with the times, old moaners will complain about people on their lawns. I think MS know more about this game than you do (and most of Slashdot who continually seem to bash a company that has managed to maintain 90% market share for nearly 20 years).
12. Re:Do they have customers already? by jbolden · 2012-08-02 00:03 · Score: 1
  
  I don't have huge fingerprint problems with my iPhone or iPad now. And when the screen gets dirty, you wipe it.
13. Re:Do they have customers already? by UnknowingFool · 2012-08-02 00:25 · Score: 1
  
  Please. Metro is good at being a touch UI. It is far less effective as a desktop UI. Forcing users to use switch between touch, keyboard, and mouse is going to frustrate them. See any YouTube video when a normal user was introduced to Win 8. They never figure out to do simple things like launch a program.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
14. Re:Do they have customers already? by jbolden · 2012-08-02 01:18 · Score: 1
  
  Most people do figure it out. There are a couple videos where people had problems. And those people would in real life ask and be shown. Having worked with older people they often don't understand the desktop metaphor now they just have more experience.
  Second those videos were not of people using the system on a touch screen. Those videos didn't use a tablet input or even a trackpad. Rather, those videos were Windows 8 on a keyboard & mouse only setup where Windows 8 is an interface downgrade.
  Third the users generally were able to do things with metro apps like use internet explorer. What they showed was people thrown into the Metro interface who had to use things from the the classic interface. It is probably good in terms of Microsoft transitioning people that this be uncomfortable. Apple made the classic box successively less comfortable to walk developers from:
  a) Only runs in OS9
  b) Only runs in the classic box on OSX
  c) Runs natively using the Carbon API for OSX.
  d) Runs natively using the Cocoa API for OSX.
  I suspect if I took the average Windows /.er and asked them to try and get a classic app to run in 10.4 using the classic box (without access to google) they'd like fail. Conversely in 10.1 it was smooth as silk.
15. Re:Do they have customers already? by UnknowingFool · 2012-08-02 05:29 · Score: 1
  
  What? Nowhere have I mentioned anything about compatibility. Have a Windows user run a Dos 6/Win 95/Win XP/Win 7 app. Not all of them will work correctly. This was always about shoving a touch UI onto a desktop and have the touch UI be the default is going to be a disaster for most desktop users. Even if they had touch screens, the break in workflows will be uncormfortable at best.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
16. Re:Do they have customers already? by jbolden · 2012-08-02 06:14 · Score: 1
  
  You aren't thinking about the long term picture. If Microsoft is going to move everyone to a multi-input, cloud enabled system like Metro that means COM and .NET has to go longer term. Those software packages are Windows' biggest asset and Microsoft's objective to to migrate them to Metro not lose them nor have them stay on COM and NET.
  Microsoft has to make COM and NET apps feel less than ideal. And if they execute this correctly it should get worse and worse and worse for those apps. And in precisely the same way the Windows eco system has to fit the old mouse/keyboard worse overtime. If Microsoft plan is successful there won't be desktop user by 2017, they will be Windows user who right now happen to have their mobile device attached to a large display (touch enabled) with keyboard.
  Touch is not going to be a disaster, because consumers are going to buy hardware that fits touch. And once they buy the hardware that fits touch they are going to want apps that support touch. And assuming Microsoft's strategy works (which I admit is a big assumption) everything is multi paradigm with users transitioning their means of interacting based on a variety of factors. I'll link this again. This is where Microsoft is heading: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6cNdhOKwi0
17. Re:Do they have customers already? by UnknowingFool · 2012-08-03 00:52 · Score: 1
  
  You aren't thinking about the long term picture. If Microsoft is going to move everyone to a multi-input, cloud enabled system like Metro that means COM and .NET has to go longer term. Those software packages are Windows' biggest asset and Microsoft's objective to to migrate them to Metro not lose them nor have them stay on COM and NET.
  You aren't thinking what is actually good for the user and how users actually work. Users can give a damn about how COM and .NET works. Developers are stuck with using UI methods that they may not like.
  
  Touch is not going to be a disaster, because consumers are going to buy hardware that fits touch. And once they buy the hardware that fits touch they are going to want apps that support touch. And assuming Microsoft's strategy works (which I admit is a big assumption) everything is multi paradigm with users transitioning their means of interacting based on a variety of factors. I'll link this again. This is where Microsoft is heading
  One of the main points of your assumption is predicated that consumers will buy touch screens for desktops. At this point, people are not buying new desktops as often because their existing hardware is good enough. If they have a good decent sized monitors why would they pay extra money for touch? The other part of the assumption is that touch is a compelling reason to upgrade. The only groups that buy touch screens are businesses for POS systems; however, those systems often run on embedded Windows and not consumer Windows versions.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
18. Re:Do they have customers already? by jbolden · 2012-08-03 01:22 · Score: 1
  
  One of the main points of your assumption is predicated that consumers will buy touch screens for desktops. At this point, people are not buying new desktops as often because their existing hardware is good enough.
  Windows 8 starts the process of it not being good enough. As more apps go Metro it will get worse. By Windows 9 it will be totally unusable.
  If they have a good decent sized monitors why would they pay extra money for touch? The other part of the assumption is that touch is a compelling reason to upgrade.
  Similar to above. Because they won't have a choice. Their apps don't work well without touch.
  You aren't thinking what is actually good for the user and how users actually work.
  Well first off, I'm not Microsoft. But yes I think Microsoft is thinking about what's good for the user but in a much longer term sense. Windows users are not advantaged by having a moribund platfomr that's designed for mid 1990s computers when they could have so much more. The potential exists for amazing interfaces. The end users of 2025 deserve the version of Microsoft Office from that video, not the rate of change they've seen over the past 13 years. On the other hand the end users at any given year don't necessarily want the disruption that's required to bring back a vibrant tech sector. I think they are wrong and I have no problem with supporting Microsoft in bring back a vibrant tech sector.
  Secondly. Windows users, particularly benefit from a healthy eco system that is unified (here is an area I hope Microsoft fails BTW). Training costs were much lower in the late 90s when you could just assume had "Microsoft office" than they were in the 80s where end users all knew different packages. It is not to the user's advantage that consumer be lost to Microsoft and that by the end of this decade the exciting segments of technology are using paradigms that can't co-exist with Windows. It is not to their advantage that 2017-2040 be years when Microsoft falls completely and the entire computing software infrastructure needs to be totally replaced, possibly more than once.
  Users can give a damn about how COM and .NET works.
  I understand that. So what? They don't give a damn about how their water system works we don't allow them to drink hazardous chemicals or high bacterial concentrations, water experts make choices for them. In this case Microsoft, is making those choices.
  Developers are stuck with using UI methods that they may not like.
  This objection I don't follow.
19. Re:Do they have customers already? by UnknowingFool · 2012-08-03 04:23 · Score: 1
  
  Windows 8 starts the process of it not being good enough. As more apps go Metro it will get worse. By Windows 9 it will be totally unusable.
  Um except for touch. That's rather circular logic. Otherwise, hardware wise they can run Win 7.
  
  Well first off, I'm not Microsoft. But yes I think Microsoft is thinking about what's good for the user but in a much longer term sense. Windows users are not advantaged by having a moribund platfomr that's designed for mid 1990s computers when they could have so much more. The potential exists for amazing interfaces. . . .
  None of which actually addresses my point. Touch as a concept needs to be a lot more refined before it's thrust upon users like this. Right now users shift between mouse and keyboard. In the future MS wants them to shift between touch, mouse, and keyboard. In terms of workflow, that's highly disruptive.
  Potentially touch is rather limited. Holographic UI and neural interfaces is where the potential is. The problem is that they don't exist in any practical form.
  
  I understand that. So what? They don't give a damn about how their water system works we don't allow them to drink hazardous chemicals or high bacterial concentrations, water experts make choices for them. In this case Microsoft, is making those choices.
  You brought up COM and .NET this a benefit for users. This has no benefit to users at all. The rest of your statement is rather irrelevant. How does touch benefit users on the desktop? On a mobile device there is a benefit as a full keyboard harms portability. That's a question you don't seem to answer.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
20. Re:Do they have customers already? by jbolden · 2012-08-03 10:54 · Score: 1
  
  Um except for touch. That's rather circular logic. Otherwise, hardware wise they can run Win 7.
  Exactly. Microsoft forks hard. Windows 7 works well for COM and NET. Windows 8 is transitional and Windows 9 mostly deprecates the old hardware and possibly some software. I'm not sure what you mean by circular. Its like digging a hole the shovel makes the hole.
  None of which actually addresses my point. Touch as a concept needs to be a lot more refined before it's thrust upon users like this. Right now users shift between mouse and keyboard. In the future MS wants them to shift between touch, mouse, and keyboard. In terms of workflow, that's highly disruptive.
  They disagree that it needs to be refined. They've made the call its time to roll out partially now to start changing the hardware infrastructure.
  1) OS first
  2) Some Apps
  3) Hardware
  4) Increasing pressure on stragglers to get most apps on board.
  They actually want more than just touch. They want ubiquity so users are switching between desktops, laptops, phones, tablets, shared desktops, home and work... They want stylus not just finger touch.
  How does touch benefit users on the desktop?
  It kills the traditional desktop and gives them a desktop as just one way to work. It isn't meant to just make a single desktop experience better. Its meant to be transformative. Word Processing didn't make typing pools better, it eliminated them all together and changed the nature of document construction.
  a) Data is available anywhere on a huge variety of devices
  b) Automatic collaboration
  c) intuitiveness of touch and precision controls both available and easy to switch between.
  d) Voice controls.
  etc...
  That's a question you don't seem to answer.
  I've answered it a few times. It starts the motion towards better systems, and one of the first things it gets rid of the separation of "desktop" and "mobile" they blend into one another on an as needed basis. Again watch the video as people move data from their smartphones to a variety of systems. For example where Alya in her hotel room as she sinks her smartphone with the extended screen tray to work on the presentation.
  The first step, Windows 8 may be a downgrade for desktop users. Window 7 is a really nice mature product, people are mostly happy. This is the way people were with DOS. DOS users didn't see Windows 1, Windows 2, Windows 286 or Windows 386 as upgrades. Windows 386 had some potential. And then Windows 3.0 ..... today the idea of going back to DOS or being stuck on DOS is unthinkable. But the switch from DOS to Windows 3.0/3.1/for Workgroups was really disruptive. It forced people to get into a rapid hardware upgrade cycle for years and forced virtually every application to be written and shook up the whole eco system.
  Do you think Microsoft did the wrong thing in forcing that change?
MS is out of touch unless it's with chairs by avandesande · 2012-08-01 06:50 · Score: 1

At the very least they could of named it something other than 'Metro'. This meme was popular several years ago but has faded considerably by now. I'm not a marketing guy but couldn't they have picked something a little better for an OS name?

--
love is just extroverted narcissism
1. Re:MS is out of touch unless it's with chairs by Mashiki · 2012-08-01 06:58 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Well, they could have named it "Fabulous." But maybe that would have been too much? I'll just roll along with the puns here.
  
  --
  Om, nomnomnom...
2. Re:MS is out of touch unless it's with chairs by squiggleslash · 2012-08-01 08:20 · Score: 1
  
  FWIW, Metro's more the UI. But anyway: would "Mass Transit System" or "City Bus Company" have been any better as names? And don't say "But what about Subway" as people in the US associate that with sandwiches made on stale hoagie rolls.
  "Metro" was definitely the right choice...
  
  --
  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
3. Re:MS is out of touch unless it's with chairs by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 09:01 · Score: 0
  
  Trannies?
4. Re:MS is out of touch unless it's with chairs by avandesande · 2012-08-01 09:04 · Score: 2
  
  The meme at the time mostly surrounded the term 'metrosexual' and if MS didn't understand that 'Metro' would be associated this make my OP even more poignant.
  
  --
  love is just extroverted narcissism
5. Re:MS is out of touch unless it's with chairs by mellyra · 2012-08-01 10:16 · Score: 1
  
  The meme at the time mostly surrounded the term 'metrosexual' and if MS didn't understand that 'Metro' would be associated this make my OP even more poignant.
  you yourself concede that that meme "has faded considerably by now" so I doubt that would be a huge concern (and I'd think that spread of that meme was limited to a very small subgroup of total Windows users in the first place)
  the metro design language is based off the signs found at Seattle metro stations so the name is kinda obvious - and Metro is really nothing the average computer user gets directly confronted with or has to know by name, it's a set of UI design guidelines nothing more. How many users read that sort of stuff or are interested in its codename?
6. Re:MS is out of touch unless it's with chairs by avandesande · 2012-08-01 10:56 · Score: 1
  
  The vast majority of Windows users have never been to Seattle, so the connection isn't obvious to most of us. Again, the name sucks from a marketing standpoint that is all I am trying to point out.
  
  --
  love is just extroverted narcissism
7. Re:MS is out of touch unless it's with chairs by InfoJunkie777 · 2012-08-10 14:06 · Score: 1
  
  FWIW, Metro's more the UI. But anyway: would "Mass Transit System" or "City Bus Company" have been any better as names? And don't say "But what about Subway" as people in the US associate that with sandwiches made on stale hoagie rolls.
  "Metro" was definitely the right choice...
  Read HERE to find out why M$ had to legally CHANGE the name to "Windows 8 UI" because they wouldn't/couldn't settle with some German company.
  
  --
  Don't explain computers to laymen. Simpler to explain sex to a virgin. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Googd news for Linux by na1led · 2012-08-01 06:51 · Score: 1

As Windows couldn't get much worse, many will now be taking another look at Linux instead. I've been using Windows 8 for several months now, and it SUCKS! Even on a Tablet, it's not very intuitive. It feels like Windows 7 merged with a cheap Phone OS, and the blending makes it very confusing to navigate around.

--
-- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
1. Re:Googd news for Linux by tftp · 2012-08-01 09:04 · Score: 1
  
  It feels like Windows 7 merged with a cheap Phone OS, and the blending makes it very confusing to navigate around.
  Metro is the Star Trek TNG UI coded by people without even an ounce of artistic talent. I, for one, hate those ugly, large, boxy shapes and those atrocious colors. Have anyone here downloaded the Visual Studio 2012 RC? It has two color themes (light and dark) and both are murderous on the user. Humans don't even see these colors around them much - and most certainly we aren't surrounded by large boxy shapes. We work with nicely made tools and objects of soft, pleasant color. Windows was progressing to render those naturally, and by Win7 they were pretty well done. Win8 discards all that - the bathwater, the baby, the church, and the whole planet too, for good measure.
  A good unified "panel" design of ST:TNG is there because the computers that the crew is operating are fixed purpose devices to run the ship. That's why similar designs are OK on tablets - which are largely single purpose devices to run one application out of some selection of applications. Desktops are neither needed nor wanted to run one application full screen (or tiled down to half of the screen.) Desktops run tens of applications, their windows customized to fit the monitor and to show that needs to be shown. Metro denies users all that "information under their fingertips," as BG's ghost writers put it. You can now only see what one application shows you, even if your screen is 27" or you have multiple monitors. Win8 is very inconvenient to use; its salvation may be only in hacks that remove Metro and put the customizable Start menu back.
Most Enterprise use is moving to 7 now with XP sti by Joe_Dragon · 2012-08-01 06:52 · Score: 1

Most Enterprise use is moving to 7 now with XP still on some systems that have software that does not fully work with vista / 7.
Now add in the NEW UI in 8 makes it less likely to move to it. XP and 7 UI's are about the same just small moves and changes.
Windows 8 will lead to help desk hell.
Re:Windoze Have ( Score: +4, Seditious ) by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:53 · Score: 1

Timequake 1 or timequake 2
/.ers incapable of dealing with change? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:55 · Score: -1

I find it ironic that denizens of a site whose groupthink involves convincing people to switch to Linux (a massive change in UI) are themselves seemingly incapable of dealing with change in the form of Metro and, in the recent past, the Office ribbon bar.
While good as a tablet UI, Metro has many obnoxious misfeatures as a desktop interface and an expensive unlearning phase of old Windows msucle memory. That's indisputable. However, I'm capable of dealing with it because I'm an nerd and can handle new things. Are you?
1. Re:/.ers incapable of dealing with change? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:39 · Score: 0
  
  After playing with Win8 a bit, the problem isn't so much about change as it is about being laborious.
  On a tablet, lots of space is good. Fat fingers get in the way and you accidentally keep hitting the wrong button when things are too close together. On a PC you have buttons together in small groups, just pixels away from one another.
  With items being further away you have to move your mouse around more. After a couple hours of holding down the mouse button and dragging page after page it becomes tedious.
  Of course PC users will find ways to get around Metro, but doesn't mean they won't be annoyed when they do have to deal with it.
Why not just not make it for desktops? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 06:56 · Score: 0

I messed with 8 some on the public release or whatever it was and I didnt like it at all really. I love windows 7 and what Im sticking with.
I dont understand why they didnt just make windows 8 just for their line of tablets coming out, because its obviously what it is geared for. MS seems to just be trying to show up late to the tablet game by bullying their way into it and forcing it on people vicariously through the desktop version of 8 as well. Just make your tablet OS its own thing and make the desktop OS its own thing. Just trying to shove a single product on both of your customers is going to piss atleast half of them off.
Obviously I want a OS for a tablet that is designed to maximize its useage and be made for it, just like I want the same thing in my desktop OS. They are completely different beasts for completely different users.
Thats why I hate how they killed the start button, I liked it, I was used to it and it works well for me. I mean Im not opposed to losing it for a interface option that is a superior choice but what is done is windows 8 is not superior in terms of desktops, its inferior. I dont mind overhauls when they benefit me and improve my experince, what they did with 8 isnt so I dont want it.
If MS wants to continue to be important as it is then it needs to start thinking of the customer. MS can become a huge powerhouse again with just a few small steps.
1) Become a company that loves pc gamers and treats them as valuable. PC gamers are a bulk of windows users but MS just shunts everything gaming to the xbox 360 and leaves pc gamers with games for windows live. They show their pc gamers some love they will win a lot of fans.
2) When you make a new OS give the customers real choices instead of just "You can get this version cheap but it sucks, or you can spend a lot more for some more features everyone needs or pay a insane amount for some more features no one needs". Like doing one windows for your phones/tablets and another for your desktop users.
3) Take your products like office and make them easily affordable to anyone. You can carve out all that useless extra stuff no average user would ever need and sell a complete version to a business or whatnot but the reason no one really uses office anymore is because its too fucking expensive for a email client and word, which is all most people use anyway.
Microsoft has a long future ahead of them by bbbaldie · 2012-08-01 06:58 · Score: 3, Insightful

Their future will resemble that of IBM, Novell, HP, Sears, and many other companies that were once #1 in their specialty. Still making money, still active in the market, occasionally coming up with something truly revolutionary.
But one thing's for damned certain: their days of dominance are over. OVER! YES!!!!!!!!!
Missing the point by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:01 · Score: 1

I have been running windows 8 for a while and even put it on one of my LAN center computers to see how the natives would like it. Microsoft have moved things around in a way that doesn't make since but after a while you figure it out and it becomes just second hat just like Windows 7. It is stable and seems much better optimized then Windows 7. Metro is a joke on the desktop but you just click past it to the desktop application. So it is very usable and in the end isn't that much different then 7. Some of the regulars even pick it now despite there shock when they first started using it
The issue/point of concern are Metro applications. Metro applications are 100% controlled by Microsoft. You have to get them from the Microsoft store just like iOS applications. Microsoft has to approve them and will take a cut off the top. Windows 8 is a stepping stone to full control which is why Valve is so upset. Microsoft would never allow Steam to run in a Metro environment. Microsoft will do what Steam does today for everyone and every application with no choice.
Windows 8 on the desktop is very workable despite the learning curve. Metro only is nothing but bad news for us all.
Even though I am using XP64 by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:03 · Score: 0

The days are slowly ticking down until I switch to Linux. Probably when Valve ports all their titles to Linux. That's the hold-up for me.
1. Re:Even though I am using XP64 by bbbaldie · 2012-08-01 08:48 · Score: 1
  
  Come on over, pal! :-)
  I'm no gamer, but it was Dreamweaver and paint Shop pro that kept me with Windows. I've been running Linux full-time on the desktop since 2008, with XP running virtually as I needed it.
  I've finally gotten comfortable with Gimp and Eclipse. I still fire up the XP machine for Dreamweaver's GUI and SQLYog. But I'll be fully Linuxised by the time XP loses its support.
Excellent news! by VikingOfNorth · 2012-08-01 07:05 · Score: 1

Now I can begin ignoring the whole thing immediately!

--
"I'm just here for the achievements"
Pathetic Earthlings by rssrss · 2012-08-01 07:30 · Score: 1

Heaven have mercy on us poor sinners. Yet another version of Windows. They should have quit while we were ahead, like maybe 10 years ago.

--
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
I enjoy Windows 8 and Server 2012 by WolfgangPG · 2012-08-01 07:48 · Score: 0

I am a MSDN subscriber and enjoy Windows 8. The weekend of 8/17 I plan on upgrading my home server to Server 2012 essentials and my 3 PCs to Windows 8 RTM (have been using DP since released).

I truly enjoy Windows 8. I like the Metro look to everything -- squared off, flat graphics. I just find the look of the Windows 8 Desktop more appealing than the Windows 7 desktop.

The start screen is cool and I see it a few times a day while using my PC. My most frequent programs are pinned to my Taskbar and I don't use a ton of apps.

My biggest concern with Windows 8 is the Microsoft Account stuff. Since I am the guy who does IT in my household -- Microsoft still has not made it clear how it will handle subscriptions to Xbox Music, etc... while allowing each user in my house to use a unique Microsoft Account login. If you login into Windows 8 with a Microsoft Account and then launch Music -- it will auto log you into the Music app. You can then log out and log in with a different account, but this is annoying and would be cumbersome -- I hope I could subscribe to Xbox Music and then add sub accounts with Music persmission (maybe 5 accounts??).

Microsoft has improved many aspects of Windows 8 over Windows 7. Like all OS releases it is different and takes a bit to notice the change. After the RP was released I totally enjoyed using it more than Win7 (which I use mostly at work).

The whole "cloud" thing is going to be huge with Windows 8 and I am curious to see how non-Tech people respond. There are a lot of consquences depending on how you setup your account(s) for Windows 8 as far as usability and features go.

The biggest problem is people on the desktop are for the most part happy with Windows 7. Happy people don't want to learn something new. However, I think that once you use Windows 8 and learn some of the tricks (winkey+Q), etc... it is a better enviroment. I even use a few of the apps on my desktop (not a lot of them though).
BWAHAHAHA. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 07:57 · Score: 0

Too late.
Just today I booted (from DVD) Debian 6.0, aka as Squeeze.
Let the Games begin ! :-)
Every OTHER edition of Windows sucked by scharkalvin · 2012-08-01 08:12 · Score: 2

Windows 3.1 Great product
Windows 95 BUGGY as HELL
Windows 98 Great (at least by the time SE came out)
Windows NT concept product who used it?
Windows 2000 Enterprise Giant!
Windows ME (ho hum)
Windows XP Longest lived version yet
Windows Vista Nuff said!
Windows 7 Greatest yet.
Windows 8 WTF?
1. Re:Every OTHER edition of Windows sucked by DigiShaman · 2012-08-01 15:57 · Score: 1
  
  Windows NT 3.51 and 4.0: A true enterprise workstation class OS suitable for running AutoCAD.
  Windows ME: A pile of shit. I pretend it never existed.
  Vista: Such great potential. This version had broken functionality and performance suffered.
  Windows 7: What Vista should have been from the beginning.
  Windows 8: BILLY G, WHERE ARE YOU? SAVE US FROM BALLMER!!!
  
  --
  Life is not for the lazy.
2. Re:Every OTHER edition of Windows sucked by dbcad7 · 2012-08-01 19:15 · Score: 1
  
  That may be.. but I guess mileage may vary.. Not to push my OS of choice which is Linux, but my own experience with 7 has not been great.. For home use, I have skipped every MS OS since Windows 98SE and ran Linux.. personal choice.. Now I got it in my head that I would take some classes, so I bit the bullet and installed Windows 7 along with Office 2010.. I also do tech support at work where we run XP and support customers with XP, Vista, Win 7 and the OSXs .. Now dealing with customers I would rather deal with an XP customer first, Windows 7 runs a close second, followed by Vista.. My work use with XP beats the hell out of my home use with Win 7.. It's just annoying with it's various warnings, and notifications, and the various crap that keeps trying to add themselves to all three of my browsers in Windows 7 just makes me wonder how people put up with it. That and the fact that a 2 day old updated Internet Explorer requires resetting due to "Internet Explorer Has Stopped Working" just baffles me.. So, I have my Win 7 system on it's partition for school, but I continue to boot into Linux Mint for day to day use,,because I am spoiled with an OS that doesn't get in the way.. Win 7 may be less intrusive than Vista, but I can't imagine it's much less.
  
  --
  waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
3. Re:Every OTHER edition of Windows sucked by scharkalvin · 2012-08-02 00:51 · Score: 1
  
  I too have a dual boot system with win7-64 installed for 'when I need it', and my primary OS is also Linux Mint. Currently Mint-9, but as soon as I can back up the system I'm going to upgrade to Mint-13 KDE.
4. Re:Every OTHER edition of Windows sucked by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-10 15:01 · Score: 0
  
  I second that!!
  Someone appears to have cracked the "every other" code or has been subjected/sentenced to a number of corporate rollouts to Windows "X". Is this even an argument anymore? I thought it was widely known that every second version of windows sucked as the previous poster has so eloquently posted.
'Start me up' for Windows 95... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 08:25 · Score: 0

'I can get no satisfaction' for Windows 8. Makes sense.
wouldn "Windows"+"Ready" be a bit of an oxymoron? by logicassasin · 2012-08-01 08:32 · Score: 1

Windows is never "ready"... At least not in the sense of "It's fully functional and no, we're not missing anything crucial".

--
Fifty watts per channel, baby cakes.
Yeah right... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 08:38 · Score: 0

And what would they do if 99% of PC users selected the Win 7 interface or even worse, Windows Classic over their shiny new Metro Toy?
There would be a lot of damaged furniture at HQ...
I predict by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 08:48 · Score: 0

a zillion m.mouse@disney.com addresses being registered.
This move is just an attempt to harvest user data. There is no way that this can be 'in the interests of security'.
To follow in the footsteps of... by runeghost · 2012-08-01 09:12 · Score: 1

ME, Vista, The Search for Spock, and the Undiscovered Country.
Metro is a total pos by Endophage · 2012-08-01 10:15 · Score: 3, Informative

For those who don't have to write software Metro may seem nice. However, to those that do write software, if they haven't found out already they shortly will, Metro's sandboxing is just a total fuck up. Metro apps can't communicate with non-Metro apps. It's even difficult for them to communicate with other metro apps. Hell, it's even difficult for them to just access files on the hard disk. Want a nice Metro app to browser your downloads? No Sorry, you can't have that, your Downloads folder is off limits to Metro. I've seen some developers that actually had to build a web server into their desktop service so that a Metro UI could communicate with it over a REST api rather than using traditional inter process communication.

To the point one or two people have made about Windows 7 menu search and Metro. Yes you can bring up Metro and start typing to find the application you want. However, it's much less distracting and easier on the eye to have a small menu, with colours that match the rest of your system, pop up over a small area of the screen, rather than Metro where the whole screen flashes and changes colour before you eyes and start to type your search causes the entire interface to change, then selecting your application drops you back out of Metro, more sudden screen changes.
1. Re:Metro is a total pos by Aphoxema · 2012-08-01 19:52 · Score: 1
  
  For those who don't have to write software Metro may seem nice. However, to those that do write software, if they haven't found out already they shortly will, Metro's sandboxing is just a total fuck up. Metro apps can't communicate with non-Metro apps.
  I was excited about a Metro frame Chrome, until I noticed that when I'm playing YouTube videos and go to another application I can't hear it anymore.
  I do like the "Start Page" though, I think it's going to be the only Metro application I'll use.
  
  --
  "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
2. Re:Metro is a total pos by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-02 02:03 · Score: 0
  
  So what's the problem with adding a webserver service? :-) Using .Net the core of that should be 5 lines of code and a callback handler.
3. Re:Metro is a total pos by Endophage · 2012-08-02 03:30 · Score: 1
  
  And that sounds like "doing it right" to you? For two pieces of the same application having to communicate through an HTTP api when they are running on the same computer?
4. Re:Metro is a total pos by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-10 06:48 · Score: 0
  
  Our app, under development since 1987, currently is written using Delphi 6, and just starting to go through any kind of Windows/UAC compliance and digital signing stuff, seems to install and work fine on W8. Maybe we can fool'em for another decade.
  My first W8 experience though, was nightmarish. I try not to think about it.
  In 1996, I gave Microsoft 20 years to live. Go Microsoft!
5. Re:Metro is a total pos by epyT-R · 2012-08-10 15:24 · Score: 1
  
  I wonder if that jarring experience was intentional to get people to prefer metro apps over their win32 brethren by default.
Re:Most Enterprise use is moving to 7 now with XP by jbolden · 2012-08-01 10:18 · Score: 2

I don't think most companies will go the Windows 8 route. Windows 9, will be difficult for corporate America. They might have to do real honest to god training.
Windows 8 is Ready.. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 10:20 · Score: 0

to set sail for fail!
What a strange thing, really by DaKong · 2012-08-01 10:22 · Score: 1

To see anyone working themselves into a lather over an irrelevant OS. Everyone who develops for real does so on some *nix variant. The tools available on Windows are neither free nor meaningful.
I have been off MS for 15 years. I stopped having regular contact with its variants around Win2K.
No, no, I understand that many users still live in Windows-land. I understand that many Baby-Boomer CIO/CTOs still accept everything that MS says as gospel. But those people are not long for this world. And everyone from Gen-X to younger who is building for the future, does not use Windows in any way, shape, or form.
So I look on this whole Windows 8 discourse as I do on Kabuki, that is, as something that might be quite meaningful and relevant to the culture in question, but still quite alien and quite irrelevant.
Shine on, you crazy diamonds...

--
If not us, who? If not now, when?
1. Re:What a strange thing, really by neminem · 2012-08-02 04:20 · Score: 1
  
  Just because you don't use Windows systems, doesn't mean that nobody does, or even that nobody of your age or demographic does. Cause most people do. Just because you don't develop for Windows doesn't mean that nobody develops for Windows - unless by "for real", you're invoking the No True Scotsman trope, defining developer as inherently "someone who doesn't develop for Windows", which would be rather unhelpful.
  Loads of people still program for Windows, and until a year or so ago I didn't see that changing ever. Now, though... Windows 8 feels like the beginning of the next disaster. I haven't heard too many people in my demographic saying they like the idea, and it's such a paradigm shift, UI-wise and development-wise, that we're going to be forced to support it anyway for those clueless users you mentioned (who accept everything MS says as gospel, or more likely, whose IT departments force them to), so that'll be fun.
  No offense, though, but while the Linux kernel might be grand, all the UIs I've tried are still stuck in the dark ages. So it's not like there's really much alternative, other than just "don't 'upgrade'". Which only goes so far.
Subtitles. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 11:20 · Score: 0

I hope they fixed the broken subtitles in any media player. Consumer preview was hosed.
USGOV8 is ready! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 11:41 · Score: 0

I cannot wait! Why? So I can count each new patch which fixes yet another and another remote exploit which could lead to a complete takeover of the system.
Try this with XP upon release through today, how many hundreds of 'remote exploits' were fixed? How many existed for years?
IMO, Microsoft works hand and glove with the government through TLA.
I know I can count on the conspiracy of American antivirus companies to whitelist state designed rootkits like Flame. It all began with the SONY BMG ROOTKIT which none of them found.
So, how long till Windows 7 is history? by CrimsonAvenger · 2012-08-01 11:51 · Score: 1

Seriously, do I need to think about buying new computers before Win8 hits the streets if I don't want to be stuck with Win8?
I say this not because I have a particular problem with Win8, but because I prefer to let other people beta-test operating systems. I want one I KNOW will work right, not one I'm just hoping will work right.

--

"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
1. Re:So, how long till Windows 7 is history? by jimmyfrank · 2012-08-01 15:09 · Score: 1
  
  Yes you seriously should, I'd go buy 20 or 30 new computers. Actually with Win8 you'll be able to revive old hardware, it's pretty snappy on old junk.
...touch screen... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 13:32 · Score: 0

I really love the touch screen in Windows 8.
Now when I am watching porn I can navigate by rubbing my penis on the screen.
Vista 2.0 by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 14:09 · Score: 0

I'll stick with Windows 7, XP, Linux! Yeah, Ubuntu and Gnome are smoking crack too. What's with all these atrocious GUI's lately? Why don't they let us turn on Start Orb other options if we want or easily revert to Gnome 2? Turds!
You can make Win7 a LOT faster though, easily by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 14:38 · Score: 0

You can get Win7 to be that quick easily by:
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1.) Trimming services you don't really require
2.) Performance based registry hacks
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Plus, other 'tweaks' such as:
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A.) Moving a pagefile.sys off the main "C" drive onto another fast HardDisk (I move mine to a TRUE "SSD" based on DDR-2 RAM in the Gigabyte 4gb RamDrive board I have (faster on writes than many SSD's and keeps its speed consistent for YEARS now, & I did the same with a 2gb CENATEK RocketDrive based on PC-133 SDRAM for a decade++ before it)_ - so, in my case & in REAL ESSENCE? I am "paging from RAM", albeit from a dedicated array of it for that & other file I/O oriented purposes.
Why? Offload the SLOWEST part of your system (traditionally that's harddisks), & you gain a thousandfold and you can TELL easily... make it do less work, it gets other work done on it faster, and has "helpers" in other disks doing that "dirty work" (in other words, your main disk should be doing mostly only program loading IF you can help it... &, I can, so can you!)
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B.) Also things like moving your:
%TEMP%/%TMP% ops
Browser caches
Print spooling
Logging (both OS &/or App logs)
%COMSPEC%
AND, more to another disk (again - I do that on the Gigabyte IRAM 4gb DDR-2 board I have here, and it all FLIES, noticeably so).
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* There's TONS more too, but those are some easily achieved "broad strokes" that actually work for NOTICEABLE GAINS in speed/performance...
Heck - as to that list above. I am not even scratching the total surface of what CAN be done in total summation to that end!
(I've been writing both performance & security guides for Windows since 1997 onwards online here & I can't get into the "full gamut" of that or it wouldn't fit into this single post! Lastly, I wouldn't do or use them otherwise if they didn't actually yield noticeable gains that are consistently so).
APK
P.S.=> Microsoft's FINALLY introduced what "tweakers/tuners" have been doing & onto, for decades to NT-based OS (I have since Windows NT 3.51 in fact):
Automatic Service Reduction!
(Via services that "turn off" when not in use...)
Why? Well - because IT JUST WORKS!
(As it is common-sense that the less you have to do in queue or in simultaneous threads even spread over multiple cores/cpus, just makes for less memory + process scheduling "thrash")
Yes... that's one thing they've done WELL "beneath the covers" of Windows 8 (too bad they topped it off with "METRO" because I do *NOT* think I will be using it by choice that is, ever)...
Honest opinion here, and I am a KNOWN "Microsoft/Windows fanboy" around here?
I feel they're going to learn another lesson here, just as they did with DOS 4.0, Windows ME, MS Bob, & Vista - it won't do that well, call it a prediction/hunch (one I am FAR from alone in of course)
I'd almost wager in Windows 9, they'll keep METRO (too many years into it's why) BUT, they'll probably offer the option to use the "Classic Win9x style" (what I have been calling it since Win95) shell in Windows 9 as an option, based on gaining "wisdom" the HARD way (lack of sales &/or user 'mindshare')...
apk
Ready - ie we won't fix any more bugs by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 14:48 · Score: 0

Can someone tell me the last time a piece of MS software was actually 'ready'? I mean, according to MS, Vista was 'ready'.
THE OLD KING IS DEAD! LONG LIVE THE KING! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 15:26 · Score: 0

Really. you may rejoice in the dethroning of M$, however an evil overlord is still and evil overlord. My me look upon our days of freedom and rejoice that now we no longer control any of our electronic devices. because that's what APPLE and GOOGLE are for.
Quite similar to WIndows 7 by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 15:32 · Score: 0

Installed Windows 8 yesterday. After a few minutes getting used to the Metro interface, I made it to the desktop. From there on, everything was very easy. Installed a bunch of old applications including Visual C++ 6, Spider Solitaire & Hyperterminal (both copied from Windows XP) and Eudora 7. They all worked fine. After figuring out the new "start' button, I don't think I'll miss the old one. The main trick with Windows 8 is that moving the cursor over the screen corners behaves as clicking on something. The lower left corner gets you to the Metro start page. The upper left corner shows you the applications/programs that are running. Both the top and lower right corners open the side bar thing where all the functionality of the old start button used to be.
CNR FTW by Fujisawa+Sensei · 2012-08-01 16:02 · Score: 1

Except CNR has Chuck's head hanging on his wall.

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If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
Windows is like Star Trek films by ai4px · 2012-08-01 16:03 · Score: 1

Windows is like Star Trek films... every one one sucks and every other-other one is great. Win98... pretty good. Win ME(memory error) sucked, WinXP good, Vista not good, 7 good... 8 likely to suck. 73 ya'll.
1. Re:Windows is like Star Trek films by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-02 03:48 · Score: 0
  
  Congratulations. You are the 10,000 slashdotter to point this out. You win the prize of a (download) copy of Windows 8 Preview.
  http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/release-preview
2. Re:Windows is like Star Trek films by WorBlux · 2012-08-02 09:15 · Score: 1
  
  They have a major-minor release schedule. They spend 2-3 years working on now architecture that doesn't ever work quite right when released, and then spend 2-3 years to make it work right.
3. Re:Windows is like Star Trek films by ConceptJunkie · 2012-08-02 14:07 · Score: 1
  
  And the 9994th Slashdotter to leave out NT 3, NT 4 and Windows 2000, all of which I really liked. When I finally broke down and bought Windows 95 because there was more and more software I wanted to run but couldn't, it wasn't a pleasant experience. Within a few months I switched to NT 3.51 and was happy again.
  
  --
  You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
It's not that bad by johnathanhebert · 2012-08-01 17:17 · Score: 1

I have been using Windows 8 for 6 months... if you take 2 minutes to learn a few new things, it is really no big deal. - The Windows key on the keyboard brings you to the start screen, so now you don't need a start button - When you need to get to a Windows setting of some sort, just go the start screen and start typing whatever you are thinking, and you will probably see what you need - When using a keyboard and mouse, just don't use Metro apps and you won't even notice it, it just feels like a faster Windows 7 If people can't accept a few new things, then yeah, it will bomb... but really, it is just a few new things
Macbook Air by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 17:47 · Score: 0

My macbook air runs Windows 7 perfectly well.
Its about the money by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-01 18:28 · Score: 0

Its because Microsoft's app store threatens Steam's "free money" from every game sale.
Re:Every OTHER edition of Windows sucked is a myth by hairyfish · 2012-08-01 23:49 · Score: 1

You seem to be suffering from selective memory...
Windows 1.0
Windows 2.0
Windows 2.1x
Windows 3.0
Windows 3.1
Windows 3.1x
Windows NT 3.1
Windows NT 3.5
Windows 95
Windows NT 4
Windows 98
Windows 98SE
Windows 2000
Windows ME
Windows XP
Windows 2003
Windows 2003 R2
Windows Vista
Windows 2008
Windows 7
Windows 2008 R2
Windows 8

The theory doesn't really work when you include all the information (and I've still left out a bunch of special edition versions like SBS etc).
Re:Every OTHER edition of Windows sucked is a myth by scharkalvin · 2012-08-02 00:56 · Score: 1

Everything before Windows 3.1 was stoneage crap. Windows wasn't even on the radar before then. I lumped all versions of NT together as they quickly went from 3.1 to 4 before the OS was used by anybody other than developers. IIRC Windows 98SE followed quickly on the heels of 98 to fix some bad bugs. Windows 2003 and 2008 were mostly server OS's and enterprise customers held on to their win2000 systems the same way that XP users held on. From a desktop users view my list was about right.
I think it's pretty good by ethanms · 2012-08-02 03:36 · Score: 1

MS is clearly betting on consumers using this with touch screens going forward.
I've grown to like it so far. They've added some geeky eye candy (like the copy/extraction dialog details) and they've improved over all how the menus/buttons/on screen fonts all work. It's designed very well to used on large high resolution displays. They've also removed a bunch of the crappy stuff like the "glass" effects on task bar, etc.
If you like tablet/smartphone interfaces, this will become natural very quickly--even when using a mouse. There's maybe a ~week long learning curve, then you can appreciate some of the changes... unless you're stuck on what you already know and use, then you probably will be annoyed at everything added.
adv by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-02 04:03 · Score: 0

just as Kathleen explained I can't believe that any one able to get paid $7852 in four weeks on the internet. did you look at this site http://goo.gl/UUZFR
Windows 8 is Ready?? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-02 04:24 · Score: 0

Not, it is not.
Yeah. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-02 05:42 · Score: 0

Windows ME was "ready" too.
Re:launch menu button by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-02 08:42 · Score: 0

re The launch menu button hasn't been labeled "Start" since Windows XP
well I'm looking at what you;ve written and my machine is running windows 7 and in the bottom left corner is a button labelled 'start' so what in h e l l are you talking about?
Re:What matters is by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-02 08:52 · Score: 0

to me, what matters is, what problems that I have with windows 7 does windows 8 solve?
The trouble for microsoft is I don't have any problems with windows 7, and I haven't had it long enough to want to try something else.
there is no hardware I want to install in my system that windows 7 can't handle, I don't need to put in more memory than windows 7 can address, and generally, it ain't broke so why does microsoft want me to fix it?
I don't have a winphone and I don't plan on getting one. After the problems with vista I want to see how win 8 plays out before I spend my money on it - same thinking took me to windows 7 late - but windows 7 is good, more stable, faster at what I notice, like starting up, and shutting down, and more secure it seems.
did miss a paragraph by KingBenny · 2012-08-02 09:09 · Score: 1

either by upgrading or on a new pc ???? i don't buy new pc's, i buy components one at a time, first one that needs upgrading first etc ... does this mean if i buy a licence key and i switch mainboard / cpu or my gfx card i'll have to buy a new one ??? i havent been able to find anything about a retail dvd for dyi hobbyists so far ... is this the end of my windows era ?

--
Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
Tweaking/tuning (especially of services), works by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-02 13:11 · Score: 0

Many games allow adjustment of screen refresh (IDSoftware does) via their configuration files & tweaking them!
THUS, So taking advantage of that is wrong how? Tweaking/tuning actually works...
* In fact, as evidence? Ask the guys over @ www.techpowerup.com/forums about that (the owner created the GPU-z program, good guy too) & how I showed them how to get over 20% improvements in the "ScienceMark system dragrace shootout" benchmark test - I did that because they taught me how to overclock an AMD system when I purchased one (I knew how to do INTEL systems already).
That was a thread I started there back in oh, 2005-2006 iirc that's STILL GOING (unbelievable)! Was a LOT of fun in fact...
It was when I had an AMD X2 64 based CPU & was outracing systems FAR better than it around 2006 iirc (then came the Intel better stuff which dusted all of us, since it was around the time better than Pentium 4's - the ones JUST before "Core I5/I7" cpu based ones)!
Just simply by doing reductions in services running (that you don't REALLY NEED running mind you, mostly as a "standalone" single system user)...
APK
P.S.=> So, as I stated in my last posts' termination here? 1 good thing MS is FINALLY DOING that "tweakers" like myself have been onto since 1992 on Windows NT-based OS (& before that on 9x + before that on DOS (autoexec.bat & config.sys tunings), and even farther back for me in *NIX machines @ work or in collegiate academia via daemon reduction) - automatically shutdown services when not in use, a GOOD thing that helps stall memory mgt. & process scheduling "thrash"...
( & yes, it actually works on a VERY common-sense principle (whether you have single core + single thread processes OR multi-core systems & threads): The less work you're doing, especially stuff you don't really NEED to be doing all the time (think combing your hair all day long, lol), the faster what you REALLY NEED to get done, does... )
...apk
Windows 8: Codename... by zooblethorpe · 2012-08-02 13:30 · Score: 1

Windows 8 has gotten more idiot proof than usual, and that's what draws in people that don't already somehow have a PC.
Thing is, make something idiot proof, the universe evolves a better class of idiots.
Idiots are so ingenious that they've written themselves an OS.
...codenamed IdiOS.

--
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Why Win 8 isn't really a risk for MS by partofthepuzzle · 2012-08-02 15:53 · Score: 1

I think MS are idiots for trying to force feed Metro to non-tablet users, rather than letting interest and adoption be driven by the tablet users. And they're double dumb for making everyday workflow more difficult for most of their users. But in the absence of an alternative OS that will reliably run the Windows software that users and corporate IT have invested their time and money to learn, most Windows users will just deal with the annoyances. If people really hate it, then MS will have the next Windows 9 out in 18-24 months. If I want or need to stay with Win 7 for another 2-3 years, that's just fine.
Idiots by neoshroom · 2012-08-10 07:09 · Score: 1

Windows 8 has gotten more idiot proof than usual, and that's what draws in people that don't already somehow have a PC.
Thing is, make something idiot proof, the universe evolves a better class of idiots.
Might I interest you in purchasing my toothbrush chainsaw?*

* Read the extensive documentation for a safe brushing experience.

--
Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.
Yes, it is. by neoshroom · 2012-08-10 07:13 · Score: 1

Yes, the answer is obvious. That will never happen and even if it did people would just jailbreak their computer in addition to their phones.

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Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.