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Xbox 720 Could Require Always-On Connection, Lock Out Used Games
MojoKid writes "Sony's next-generation PS4 unveil is just two weeks away, which means leaks concerning both it and Microsoft's next-generation Xbox Durango (sometimes referred to as the Xbox 720), are at an all-time high as well. Rumors continue to swirl that the next iteration of Xbox will lock out used games entirely and require a constant Internet connection. New games would come with a one-time activation code to play. Use the code, and the game is locked to the particular console or Xbox Live account it's loaded on. Physical games will still be sold (the Durango reportedly supports 50GB Blu-ray Discs), but the used game market? Kiboshed. If this is true, it's an ugly move on Microsoft's part. Not only does it annihilate the right of first sale, it'll eviscerate any game store or business that depends on video game rentals for revenue."
Always on always turns me off.
The main problem I see with this is the ability to lend games to friends, or have friends lend games to me! This is what hooked me in with COD 4 and the reason I purchased an Xbox. My mate lent me his copy for a day and boom I was hooked.
That wont be happening again I guess....
No new console for me then *shrugs*
... unreliable internet connection (most of the world) this will make it unusable.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
We don't need proof, unsubstantiated blog entries will suffice!
I think it sounds just another good reason to wait till mods are available, maybe a fake MS server. or a reason to stick to pc.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
to get themselves out of the console business again
Fair enough, but if it stuffs up my gaming experience then I'll be taking it back, my pc is pretty good.
Valve's Steam Box may give these guys a run for the money.
Of course, these rumors may only exist because of Valve's entrance into the market.
Or until someone hacks it with custom firmware so it won't need an internet connection to play games.
Although that seems silly.
I think the worst part is that this may work as a business strategy. I wonder if it opens them up for a lawsuit, though.
So what you're saying is you WANT to have to go out and replace ALL your DVDs, CD and Games every time you buy a new DVD Player or Console?
I can't even begin to describe the amount of utter stupidity you have posted here.
Dick move? Note even close.
Lesser Evil? My ass.
Everyone complains about changes like this, where games are tied to accounts that can't be resold or traded, but in the end, people will still keep buying the games and consoles. It's basically only going to cause problems for used game shops, like Game Stop. I'm sure they'll work out some kind of method with the publishers and/or manufacturers to sell used games with new activation codes or somethings.
Long story short, the used game market will continue to exist, although it will be a bit less lucrative than before for customers (not that it was ever that great a deal in the first place). The main difference is the manufacturers will see some kickback as a result, and they get to charge an extra fee or tax to the publishers for the feature, which publishers will actually love.
about users freedom and thus we keep getting shafted.
I'd really like to see more people give a shit and stop buying games that are non-free (and by that I mean there are no sources available to users).
Even Linus is endorsing this insane system.
It makes me sick. Then again Linus never claimed to be a freedom loving fanatic.
I might sympathize with those who play games in that it is hard to resist although when you defend Microsoft/Apple and put down those who are pushing things forward I have no sympathy left.
Just made the next few months so much easier, because all the hype, specs, leaks, teasers and general media d1ck-sucking can be safely ignored.
You've chosen to release a console that's less powerful than the PC I built 2 years ago, so heavily encrusted with DRM that it will get in the way of playing games I have purchased. Router bounces - say goodbye to your game session. ISP has problems - no games for you, you filthy thief.
Here's a little hint, MS - you are not the only game in town. There has never been such excellent choice in the games and console market. I can run MAME on my Raspberry Pi, or Skyrim at full shiniez on the PC. What do you have to offer that's so unique? Halo? No, that's not looking a bit tired at all. Halo 5? Wow, I wonder what you have to do in *that* game!? (hint: shoot aliens...)
My PC plays anything that needs heavy lifting - my 360, Dreamcast, N64, PS3, PS2 and Saturn all still work, and I have plenty games to tide me over your entire current console lifecycle. Really, what are you offering this time around to make up for all this shit?
it will take about a day for a custom proxy server to spoof the connection, why do they waste their time?
I can't even begin to describe the amount of utter stupidity you have posted here.
I think he's either trolling or making fun of the absurd things that some copyright shills say. It is very, very doubtful that he's serious.
...only informed, conscious gamers will be dissuaded by this type of asshattery. CoD kids using their mom's credit card at the local GameStop will continue to purchase the regurgitated crap they've been playing for years.
The pool of gamers (and people in general) who actually give a shit is dwindling rapidly.
What else can happen when an unstoppable force collides with an immovable object?
Currently, STEAM is sued in Germany for not allowing re-selling of things bought on STEAM. This will likely be escalated. If MS thinks angering consumer protecion agencies in the EU is a good idea, they may find out that they are wrong.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Poe's law - on /. nobody see your smile (or grin).
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
Neither Microsoft or Sony have any interest in eliminating rental companies like Gamefly or resellers like Gamestop. What they do want is what the Publishers want -- Increased Revenue. It's well known that the Publishers have put pressure on Sony and Microsoft to restrict game resales because they don't get a dime of profit from 2nd hand sales.
Yes, Sony and Microsoft will be tying unlock codes to game systems to prevent play from 2nd hand owners. But what they don't tell you is that they will allow 2nd hand owners to BUY an unlock code via the Playstation or XBox stores for either unlimited or fixed duration (rental) game play.
So the question is not whether you can play a pre-owned game, because you will be able to, but whether or not game rental companies and game retailers can remain profitable with the added cost of the unlock codes in the mix.
Gamestop and Gamefly will work with this new system to include activation codes for rentals and pre-owned with the sale to make the customers life easier. I know that I already get all sorts of PlayStation Store redemption codes from GameStop when I pre-order Games or buy added DLC at point of sale. So an unlock code should not be that big a deal, since all it really is is a redemption code anyway.
In the end, I suspect that not much will change other than it might cost a bit more to own that 2nd hand game.
as far as the "used games" , steam uses that system and i don't think they have fail so far nor they will !!! console gamers will have to adapt or start playing on a PC but wait... SAME PROBLEM THERE ....
that an always-on internet connection won't be *required* but that the next gen sony and microsoft consoles will support, and encourage, the practice of one-time-use serials that lock the purchase to an online account that does require the always-on internet connection; eliminating the resale, lending, or renting of titles sold exclusively in that manner. by making it a 'choice', the console makers can then point the finger and blame the game publishers when the shit hits the fan.
lending, renting, or reselling games is over. even if a lawsuit ruled against the console manufacturers and publishers, the publishers would simply design the games to require an always on connection.. an example of which is about to hit the market: the next sim city game will run some of its simulations on ea-hosted servers, thus requiring an always-on connection even in single player mode, and not on a gamer's local pc.
Please read this carefully:
Always-on internet and/or unable to resell or buy second hand games = no deal
I hope I'm clear.
A long-time XBox 360 player
The only thing that will eviscarate is their profits from Xbox 720 sales.
So what you're saying is you WANT to have to go out and replace ALL your DVDs, CD and Games every time you buy a new DVD Player or Console?
While I'm not a fan of the idea regardless, if it's anything like Steam it'd be tied to your *account* not *console*, so no you would not re-buy your games if you got a new console.
Of course, this being rumors who the hell knows anyway.
Great move, so when your console dies (never happens, right?) you get to buy all your games again!
I don't think microsoft would be that stupid, the press would be all over them after the first console had to be returned because some part died.
You want to make a console like steam, no lending to friends and no used sales?
Well Microsoft, I can deal with that - I buy heaps of things on steam and I buy a heap of things on my consoles, so maybe we can come to an arrangement here,...
Only one problem is, the average price of games I buy on steam would be between 15 and 30$ and the average price of games I pay for on consoles is probably 40 to 50$, Steam games are _very_ regularly discounted to sensible prices.
So if you're willing to drop the prices of console games down to a similar, sensible level, then you might see me participate in this. but don't for a second think I'm signing up for this bullshit at 60$ US a shot for a game (and I KNOW you assholes will region lock it, so as an Australian, I'll be paying - 110$ US per game with no way for American friends to "gift" me the game at US prices and I paypal them)
You wanna have your cake and eat it too? Sure but I'm not participating if so.
Microsoft is playing a risky game with the new xbox. They need to make sure that they cater for all markets including the second hand trade because companies like CEX, Gamestation all bring revenues to game industry. If you decide to pull the plug then these companies well go bust and less revenue for the industry. Microsoft should do some homework first before releasing a always internet connected device - not everyone has internet and most people prefer to stay offline to play games and video. I think personally consumer should have more control of what the product can do.
I've bought 2 Xbox 360s. The first one was used, the second to replace the used one that failed (after several years of use). I almost exclusively buy used games for my Xbox because I think $60 is too much to pay. I know that the release-night guys will rush out and buy the game, and when they finish it, they'll sell it back to the store because they can recoup a lot of their money and use it to buy another new game. I pick up the used games, which supports that model of spending for the first purchasers.
I can say plainly that if anyone makes a console that only allows new games to be played, I will not be buying that console or playing those games. I also will not be buying used games and then purchasing a new activation code from the publisher. They lose no money from me for my used game purchases, but they may lose upstream money from those release-night purchasers who become more selective because the resale value of their games is lost. They also lose me on the few new game purchases that I make because I enjoyed the earlier used game so much. Think me buying dead space 2 new because I enjoyed my used dead space 1.
In the past, our legal rights have coincided nicely with what's physically enforceable. We buy discs / cartridges / tapes with games on, we play them, we sell them. With always-on internet connections comes a method by which the user of a product can be verified before it can be used, so now the letter of the law is at odds with what's practically possible - and people with lots of money (and even more at stake) will make sure that the law is changed (or rather "clarified") to reflect this.
Physical media itself is already far more endangered than many realise and the damage to the first sale doctrine has already been done - by iTunes, Steam and Amazon. They have already proved by their own success that the majority of people don't care about their resale rights when it comes to music, films, ebooks and games. I can see this majority acceptance being used by politicians as leverage to achieve the clarification mentioned above, rather than lawyers trying to argue the case in court - they can't win with the current rules so they'll change them again.
While there is no single console that, out of the box, requires always on-authentication tied to specific people/hardware and has no physical media options, we are steadily moving in that direction. I think the biggest step we've seen so far is actually the Ouya - it may effectively be a repackaged Android phone, but it's marketed as a console with no physical media. As much as I'd love to have one purely for it's Plex client and retro-gaming capabilities, I can't help but be concerned about where this is leading.
I am fed up anyway with the way things are going gaming. I may abandon consoles altogether until all this blows over.
I don't think the manufacturers realise that not everyone can afford t pay £50 per game, without the opportunity to trade in old games against it.
And let's face it; most games these days are in fact just 'nag-ware' which constantly rub your face in the fact you are missing out on all the DLC you haven't forked over for.
Thanks, that's what I wanted from my new game; to be told that it isn't complete and I am missing out unless I pony up the green.
Grim days to be a gamer I say.
And gone are the days of buying a game and having the exact same experience with your friends who have the same game.
You have the power here. Remember if you as a consumer refuse to buy a overly locked down console it will fail, and they will go back to the old way of doing business. Punish abusive restrictions on your rights by voting with your pocketbook...
"GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
Because when you see it, you'll turn 720 degrees and walk away.
I don't necessarily have a problem with trying to cut out the used games market. It's a dick move, but it's their IP, so I can understand it.
I'd much rather they require online access for first run only. If you want me to authenticate the purchase with a one time code? I won't like it, but I'm ok enough with it that I'm willing to still buy the product.
If they're going to require me to be online just to play? Homey don't play dat, and home certainly don't pay for dat
If I can't own it, I'm not buying it.
The only reason why I own a 360 and PS3 is because I feel like I'm buying a game, and I therefore own the disk that it comes on. I can expect that disk to work in any other console, no questions asked. It's mine, and I can do as I please with it- I can play it whenever I want, trade it to whomever I want, borrow it to whomever I want, doesn't matter. It's mine. I paid for it, I own that disk.
Copyright laws be damned, I don't give a flying fuck about what passes for law in the USA these days. I don't care if I don't "legally" own the data on the disks. I don't even care if it's encrypted or not, as long as I can buy a console, plug it into the wall (sans internet), and expect it to work. This has been the case for nearly every console up to and including our current generation of offerings.
If they want to take that away from me, then fuck them.
Nothing irks me more then spending money on nothing. You think you're buying Halo 5 for the Xbox 720? Think again. You're giving Microsoft a wad of cash and hoping that they'll give you something in return, and if they do- that they'll let you play with it for long enough that you don't feel like you're being totally screwed when they inevitably take it away.
So really, me "owning" anything today is a huge stretch- but this kind of shit just iterates how little my rights matter to these corporations. You keep forcefully reminding me that I'm paying you for nothing tangible and nothing that I can permanently keep- damn straight I'm not going to buy into your newfangled bullshit. How do you think everyone would feel if car manufactures had the legal right to break into your garage and take away your car even if you paid full pop for it? I don't think that would fly very well. How come the same thing is OK for gaming?
de 4 pour cent de saturation semble jouer ps3 sony quelle vitesse il http://www.ikincielesyaalanlar.info/
The easy solution is to simply not buy the product if you think it's bad.
/.Mattsson - My native language is not English, so please don't whine over linguistic errors. (That's lame anyway...)
The moderation system is worked exactly as intended, thank you very much.
If it's locked to an Xbox Live account, it's not as bad as you think, and more like Steam.
I think it's all total bullshit myself and I'll never spend a penny on that shit, but I think you'll only need to rebuy when you move to a new console.. or maybe not even that if the next generation is backward compatible (probably not, because people like that and we can't have too many features that people LIKE).
Sony's failure with the PSPgo is partly because they had to compete with their own more fully-featured product and partly because they didn't mandate day-and-date digital releases of retail titles.
Whether doing that worked with the Vita is impossible to tell, since that platform's sales numbers are pretty much crushed under its high price (including separate overpriced memory card) and having to compete with mobile gaming (such as it is), and pulling game sales numbers is a futile exercise anyway, since digital sales aren't usually reported, NPD's given the public the finger, and VGchartz's methodology is a disaster.
Looking at how digital sales on retail PSPs did might be better, but that may not be feasible.
And before you go on with "blah blah piracy": The DS was as wide-open as the PSP was. Developers who weren't fans of good-faith efforts used that as an excuse to develop on just the DS, or more likely have fled to mobile or folded. The 3DS is also suffering from the end of the cash-in, but is sort of weathering it because Nintendo. Pick another argument.
CAPTCHA: euphoria
I have a locked XBox Live account with +half a year or so paid on it. Being a yearly subscription, I forgot to update it when I canceled my bank account (due to another bank that I dislike buying out my bank). Instead of cancelling my account, MS left it running for another 4 or 5 months, THEN closed and locked the account for nonpayment. I went out and bought a year prepaid card, entered it in my account. The next day I was locked out again. The response I got from MS? "We don't take time cards as payment for debt owed." I also couldn't get any prepaid credit cards to work with their system.
Their system was more than happy to eat the $50 subscription card and bring my account back into the positive, but still keep me from accessing my account. Customer service told me I was out of luck. My Live account has hundreds of dollars of DLC and games on it. I sold my XBox within a week and haven't looked back. I'm done with consoles.
So no new consoles to my house then. I already have PC, Ataris, PS1-3, XBoxes and most of Nintendos. Plenty of non-played games on them left. Although nowadays the XBox360/PS3 are just awful to use. Whenever I try to play a quick game, first I am forced to update the game. But in order to do it, the console firmware needs update. So, a 3min download and 15min install. After that, then I can update the game. And usually I just miss the whole time window for gaming and need to do something else.
means fewer sales and then they have to rise the price to recoup that , it all means DRM and its controls get increasing expensive and like i have said
im sick of ONLINE only games i dont buy inot it
i want my offline single player so i dont have to sit there getting hacked
or spied on and this ability to not hav eused games is a no brainer YOU LOSE
if i cant buy a used game you are done for totally.
its a total win move for us the human race and this collosal waste a cash and time and effort will look goo don them in the end , another blunder amongst many lately.
WIN 7 was the last os you really wanted form them and its all greeeeed now suck it all dry before people realize we scum sucking scum heads
What about games you purchased new?
What happens should you buy one of the first batch of consoles - rushed out to hit launch day and it breaks just outside warranty and you decide to purchase a new one.
Will you need to replace the games too ? or what happens if you purchase several consoles for your home - will you need to double up the games too ?
This would be a very inconvenient situation indeed - surely Microsoft will at the very least allow games to be used on a maximum number of X consoles and allow them to be de / re authorised for different ones.
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
It is going to be a 3D vision (new version of Kinect I suppose) machine that is always online in the majority of the households. What could possibly go wrong?
These kinds of decisions are obviously going to piss off customers. But Microsoft clearly feels they are untouchable.
This might be understandable if they weren't currently the not-so-proud parent of a dismally failing tablet, a disaster of an operating system and a serial failure in the online space.
One would think that just maybe they should approach customers on the basis of what the customers want, and not what some repeat-disaster of a CEO thinks is good strategy.
This will be the year of the "upset" IMHO. Ouya and Steam look set to overthrow the aging behemoths. I look forward to healthy competition.
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
Is anyone really shocked? And it's not Microsoft's responsibility to ensure that a third-party company can do business selling its goods on second-hand, or renting them.
Anyone who's ever used a DVD or video game lately will know that the physical rental business is dying, and the physical used video games business has been dead for years. Hell, the PC section of my local games store basically disappeared overnight once online activation became the norm and by then I hadn't bought anything in it for years because my Steam account WAS my games. We're literally talking about things as far back as Red Alert 2, for goodness sake.
I do think it's sad but that's the way things have gone already. That said, I *love* my Steam account just for the convenience, and haven't bought a physical video game in... damn... I can't even remember. It may have been a Windows 98 title.
I still have a stack of my old PC video games on a shelf - I can't remember the last time I had to use a disk from them because the convenience of just downloading them from Steam / GOG.com or whatever was worth paying a few pounds for them all over again. Yes, I literally own things like Theme Hospital, Syndicate and the entire Quake series several times over.
The beginning of the end was Half-Life, for me, and especially when the new Steam service gave all previous Half-Life CD Key owners a copy on Steam. Since then I haven't needed to buy a physical game at all. And I haven't really owned a console - except possibly the Wii, about five years after it came out, but that was just for casual gaming at parties, etc. - since then.
It's not like it's a car, where you need to get spare parts and the car company's computer system won't allow you to use them (but even that's been the case for years now). They are producing games, and you can't resell those games. They aren't REQUIRED to allow you to do that, and never have been. The used game market piggybacks and doesn't save them money (in fact the opposite) as it's an entirely separate market. Now that they are large enough to control distribution entirely and the technology is there to provide games only digitally, why should they be supporting a third-party doing business off their goods? Consumer freedom? The consumers haven't seemed to have minded so far.
I'm all for control-of-the-device when it comes to things I purchase, so I haven't purchased many consoles in the last 15 years anyway, but this has been on the radar - and even existing in other industries - for DECADES. Why is it news to some people? And why, in the same breath, are people mentioning the rumoured "SteamBox" as a good thing? It's EXACTLY the same! And, to be honest, from Steam's / Microsoft's point of view, it can only be good business - controlling the entire distribution channel for your device is just good business sense.
If you're shocked by this, maybe you should have been paying attention 20 years ago when everyone else was noticing the trend and producing "open" systems and software licensing.
As long as it's made clear up front then people who buy this sort of crap deserve everything they get. Anyone moaning about it deserves a bitch slap.
On the other hand the companies producing this crap deserve to get ZERO sales and go out out business. Sadly though the great unwashed horde will just buy whatever crapola is dangled in front of them and then cry softly into their pillows when it doesn't work...
Ho hum :)
Sky subscribers are morons. They pay to be advertised at !
Yeah, this practice is what got me to stop using the 360 altogether. Much happier with the PS3 and paying with PSN cards.
Apparently not.
... I have never and will never own a game console, or a PC game for that matter. It's not worth the hassle.
I still have a monopoly set my grandmother gave me for my birthday 30 years ago, and nobody has come and told me that I can't sell it, nor that I can't play it, nor that I have to agree to a new terms of service in order to keep it.
Same goes for the 40 or 50 other board games I own, that are incidentally a lot more fun and a lot more social than stupid internet video games. I much prefer having guests to the house with BBQ and drinks and a couple of good board games to sitting on my couch covered in the crumbs of Cheetos and empty cans of Redbull screaming over the internet at some douchebag that just fragged his own teammate just to be difficult.
I dare MSFT to do this. Utterly dare them. IT will collapse the entire Xbox franchise overnight.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Microsoft really is trying to commit suicide.
I'm not saying you are ignorant since what you said is probably correct on the publishers intentions.
But when people decide to make a purchase they are paying the current price for all future value discounted to the present. Let's say I want to buy a knife. I can get a piece of crap that will last a year for $10. Or I can buy a nice Knife that will last me my entire life and I can hand down to my kids for $60. Everyone will have their own appraisal of this situation.
For games right now there is a group of people willing to pay the asking price with the knowledge they can trade, lend, or resell games. Those features are already included in the current prices. If publishers want to eliminate those features they obviously can but the result will be fewer people willing to pay the current asking price which is reduced revenue. Now it could be that they plan on reducing the price to go along with reducing the features. By reducing the price they will get some increase in sales. The question is "Will this strategy increase revenue?" This can't be determined theoretically. You have to experiment by actually seeing how the marketplace responds.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
I do borrow games sometimes and my younger siblings do come over to visit and bring their games. However, for the most part, I buy most if my games new as many games hold that $60 price tag for a while (COD MW2 was $60 for over a yer after release at many stores) and a used game may only be $5 less. Principles, however, has me leaning towards PS4 for my next console assuming they don't pull something like this. And to those saying PC is where it's at when it comes to avoiding DRM, go read up on that: root kits, always on DRM, etc.
Chewbacon
The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
They know the benefits of piracy, that's why they allow windows and office to work even when not validated. Same reason adobe doesn't crack down on photoshop piracy.
But the reason this is especially dangerous for them at the moment is that mobile devices are fast approaching console quality, and so gamers will switch to it (the PowerVR series6 rogue is apparently on par with xbox360's xeno GPU, around 210GPixel/s - if it ever actually arrives). There's also Ouya and steam's console. Additionally, casual games have increasing importance (which suits mobile better). Finally, it does seem that graphics have overshot what the market demand - this is what has enabled the current console generation to last so long, and why gaming PCs are increasingly niche (and thus not targeted by studios).
So, even though these next-gen consoles are much more powerful than next-gen mobile devices, if consumers don't want it, it doesn't matter.
Some things that would happen:
1) Game rental companies like Gamefly either go completely out of business or become mobile/PC only.
2) Gamestop goes completely out of business, after spending all of their money in court suing the big three.
3) Sales for all of the next-gen consoles never rise to the levels of the previous generations.
4) Many customers that were unaware of this "feature" become very irate when they run into it, and return the consoles in droves for refunds.
5) There are lawsuits against the big three (and make no mistake, where Sony and Microsoft go, Nintendo will follow) for violating the Right of First Sale (similar to US First Sale Doctrine, only without the numerous loopholes that favor corporations) in the EU. The European Court of Justice has already determined in a large case involving Oracle that it doesn't matter if the software comes on physical media, or is downloaded, the original purchaser has the right of resale. The EU will spank the big three if they attempt to enforce these restrictions.
@Mindless Drivel: 100% of Twitter posts ever Tweeted.
Fantastic! Then I only have to setup an additional account and purchase an additional copy for every person in my household who wants to play a game! Its just like board games, where you can't just pay $15 and get one copy of Monopoly for everyone to play -- if you have four people who want to play monopoly at your dinner table, you have to spend $60 and buy four copies of it! Anything else is just flat out theft!
Both are shitty. I should be able to spend $60 on a game on Steam or another service or device and let someone else in my household enjoy it, without having to shell out another $60 so they can have a copy on their account. And then another $60 for the next person in the household.
Come on folks, this are very easy issues to resolve. Don't buy one. You, the consumer, will be deciding whether MS succeeds or fails in this attempt to convert you from owners to renters.
I gonna buy me a wicked cool video card with the money I save from not buying a new XBOX 720. And have enough left over for a gaming keyboard with the cherry switches or maybe a new Naga mouse.
Fuck XBOX and their "always on". Why do I want to buy an underpowered console when I can have a PC so powerful that when I play Far Cry 3 I can practically smell the kimodo dragon blood?
Consoles are for pussies.
You are welcome on my lawn.
But you know you will anyway.
It takes a special brand of company to consistently fuck things up like Microsoft does. They have so much good current & future technology (Surface, that recent projection tech, Kinect, etc.) and ideas that could be massive hits if they would take their head out of their asses. They also happen to still be market leaders and have shitloads of cash.
Imagine what you can destroy if you run a company like a bureaucrat.
Why bother, go outside enjoy the sunshine. To quote William Shatter, "get a life". It's big business and all of them are evil. Lipstick on a pig does not change it is a Pig.
...I'm not even going to bother with the first hand games market if that is how the new Xbox does business.
MS is going to sell the Kinectbox720 as WebTV part 3 and promote HBO Go and Netflix and Skype and IE 11 and maybe some $10 DL Geometry War type games with the ability to play blu-ray movies. They are not selling it as a games machine. The Xbox has had Halo and Gears of War. MS is not a games company, they are a software licensing company - see $50 Gold yearly fee. They won't have to talk about game DRM b/c they won't talk about games.
A well thought out and structured argument might be worth upmodding, this is a series of inflamatory statements with no substance.
It's a dick move by Microsoft (especially with requiring a constant internet connection) but let's face it, video game rentals are about to go the way of video rentals very soon. Just another obsolete casualty of technology.
Evolve or die out.
What's the point of a new console anyway? Everybody knows that 99% of new games are crap nowadays. Guess I'l be sticking with the classics even more from now on.
Oh blinding flash of obvious, we salute you!
You can choose to have the latest shiny, or you can choose to purchase a console that respects your rights. If Microsoft wants to push this it would be great if the gaming community just gave them the cold shoulder. Send a message. No game is worth $50 or even $25, and then to prevent people from selling it further down the line? Just say no.
Then you still need steam.
I get the feeling that these companies with their DRM are trying to find that sweet spot where they can screw their customers over to the maximum degree while still ensuring profits rise. Graph a negative curve and label it "profits", graph a positive curve and label it "how badly customers are fucked by DRM", and find the point where the two graphs intersect. Then they pull back when there is enough backlash to actually hurt profitability... and then wait a few years and try again.
Steam is basically bullshit too (my brother lent me his copy of Skyrim and I couldn't even install it on my computer) -- but maybe that's because I'm old enough to remember the days (not too long ago) when you bought a game on a physical medium and you actually owned the fucking thing.
It's pronounced "Urango". The 'D' is silent.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
I'll still buy a console anyway. I just won't play any games that I'm not truly interested in (ones I'd buy used). My favorite games I bought new, and my Internet connection is up 99% of the time. Now, if their system for enforcement is glitchy, I'm gonna be pissed. It's got to be perfect. No "validation servers" down issues.
Also, I think this could work if they lowered the price of games. Instead of $60 for a new title, discount them the amount they calculate new enforcement will save the publishers in lost revenue. Maybe $40 a game now, since everyone buys their own copy. It'd be a gesture of goodwill to balance the stranglehold they'd be introducing.
I travel a lot and it's good to have a console with you
Do you bring the TV too? Or do you just trust that you'll be staying in a hotel that 1. allows guests to connect their own video sources without paying an extra fee, and 2. supports the same TV system (if you cross the Atlantic)? I think that's why phone gaming and handheld gaming took off.
I have games where I have the physical media but because they are Steam related I found I cannot play them unless I am "connected".
Guess Microsoft would simply be following the lead of someone else this time.
Oh, I cannot lend these games or even give them to another person even in my own household because they are locked to my Steam account.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
I keep reading about companies spending all kinds of money on research, data mining, customer surveys, etc. yet in the end, they come up with some of most asinine ideas that are guaranteed to drive customers away.
ill go back to my dos box and where in the world is carmen sandiego.
How I bought an Xbox 360
Well, when I started out, I had a $600.00 computer and I upgraded the graphics card so I could play Bioshock, plus a Nintendo Wii. At the time, I certainly didn't feel I needed an Xbox 360. So, why did I finally buy an Xbox 360? Because when I looked up the prices of games on Amazon, there were incredibly cheap prices for Xbox 360 games. Now, a lot of these were used prices, but that doesn't really matter to me.
If the Xbox 720 blocks cheap games, I can cheerfully say I will never buy one. I make my living using a computer so having a decent one is always a priority for me. Despite a lot of people being down on the Wii, I found that in combination with a decent gaming PC it covered all the types of games I could want.
This is not a threat, I doubt given their self-destructive trajectory lately that Microsoft would care if it was. It's just that video games are a luxury, there are cheap alternative to XBox 720 and always will be, so if they price me out of the market, they will just have priced me out of the market. I'm not going to miss mortgage payments in order to buy videogames, and that's that.
If anything, given the apparently permanent economic downturn, new video game prices should be coming down (even if that requires a lot of corner cutting). I'm kind of shocked that the video game industry wants to go in the other direction. I think we are looking at another crash. The last one occurred when Atari was selling junk to customers as full priced games. Consumers only take so much abuse.
Despite the media, videogames aren't a real addiction like heroin, the videogame makers are miscalculating if they think they are.
Perhaps it's "just rumors" that enough people will pass up a Wii U or an Xbox Durango to buy an Ouya or a Steam box to make them profitable ventures. First, as of February 2013, most Android and Steam games haven't yet been ported to full gamepad support; Android prefers touch gestures on a flat sheet of glass, and Steam's host platform prefers mouse and keyboard. Both currently tend to require a separate machine and game license per player. Second, another Slashdot user hinted to me that the Ouya store will probably end up so full of one-man knockoff versions of existing games and "snack-size" games without even the depth of a PlayStation 1 game that users won't be able to find anything of decent quality.
If this is the case, and PS4 does the same, I will go back to PC gaming and keep Ouya and PS3 as my only consoles. Simple as that.
"We have an A-Bomb...what more do you want, mermaids?" --I.I. Rabi, speaking in defense of Robert Oppenheimer
See, the problem here is that their competitor, Sony, has already patented locking a game to a specific console. Implementing this in the next Xbox would mean either
As it is, Microsoft and Sony (and as of the Wii U, Nintendo) play the loss leaders game with their consoles during the first few years; can Microsoft really afford to pay their cash-strapped competitor money on every unit sold or risk a multi-billion dollar lawsuit?
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
Sony's poor decisions that negatively impact and general lack of concern for what the user wants are a couple of the reasons that make the Xbox 360 far more popular than the PS3 (at least with the people I know). The Xbox 360 is not perfect, but it is still a decent system. If Xbox pushes these 'features' I will refuse to buy one and a lot of other people will too.
If Microsoft truly want people to buy new games, they shouldn't limit the game's ability to handle second hand games. Instead they need sell them at a reasonable price! I rent a game before I buy it to see if it is worth the money. If I cannot do this, I won't buy the game. If it is really good and appears to have a high 'replay value', I might buy it new. However, I usually buy games second hand because $60 is outrageous and $20-$30 is much more reasonable. Selling games for download is also a nice choice, but many of those cost the same (or close to it) as a retail hard-copy. Microsoft needs to rethink their plans and talk with users to see what they will agree with... not listen high-level board members that think they have a working strategy, but do not understand what users want.
and then the usual conditions for a rent apply
In Europe, what are these "usual conditions for a rent"? Your linked PDF doesn't mention "rent" at all.
a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period
Then make it a rental, with a term limited to the life of the last surviving author plus seventy years. If Europe's neighbor across the pond can consider this a "limited period" (Eldred v. Ashcroft), how is it not?
Inst it your responsibility to update your account status and not theirs to figure out whether or not you want to pay them? MS, like any other company, should charge the account as long as you accepted the agreement. Stopping the charge was a favor to you.
I dont care if it has this feature in it.
It means that if profits go up from having to buy everything new that costs can go down and MSRP can be lowered thus negating the need for used gmes.
Halo 5? Wow, I wonder what you have to do in *that* game!?
I don't know what the final version will require, but I do know the mechanics will be fairly broken. I've already played a prototype of Halo 5 on my Dreamcast.
And what are they supposed to do? Race Penguins in go-carts? Grow things on their Farm and sell them at the Market? Save a Princess from an Ape?
Let me guess: Tux Racer, Harvest Moon/Animal Crossing, Donkey Kong.
But it would be an interesting subversion of expectations to have a "but thou must" moment early in the campaign open up an entirely different game on the same disc that explores what the player character would have done had one decision gone differently. For example, instead of becoming an Enlistee Formerly Known As Space Marine, the character could instead choose to remain on his farm or join a racing league or something. Think of it as being sidetracked by Gold Saucer writ large.
Microsoft doesn't offer any reasonable way to cancel their service. You cannot do it through the console anymore, you need to call a number, and sit on hold for about 15 minutes until you get someone, then read off all your information. None of it is automated, easy, or reasonable. The service absolutely stinks.
The day is coming where you buy nothing in the console gaming world, except for the console itself (and hand controller hardware). It will all be metered play time where you pay some rate per hour of time, different games will have different hourly rates, and you'll get to freely choose from an online library of all games available for whichever brand of console you have.
You won't have to buy any games at all, or even "rent" them. There will be no physical media. You'll just browse thru the online library, pick your game and start playing. An "always-on" internet connection will be mandatory of course, and you'll fill your account with money beforehand so that you'll have a credit balance. As you play a game, the backend servers will deduct from your account as playtime elapses. Advertising will be sold within the games too and you'll be forced to view the ads. If you pay in advance for "premium playtime" you'll be spared the ads, but at the cheaper, and promo rates, you'll be forced to endure the ads if you want to play.
Parents will love this since it will allow them to control how much "time" they prepay into their child's game account and when the game account runs out, too bad.
Since the EU said all software and licenses have to be transferable by law, will this only be for North America only? iTunes, Steam, and other companies have to allow people to sell their music and games in the EU now since that law was enacted. I would imagine Microsoft also has to allow people to sell their XBLA games and DLC because of this ruling as well. Anyone over there care to update us on that progress?
I have three kids and three XBox 360's. We won't be replacing them for this. If the kids can't share games across consoles in our own home then it's not for us.
They're working on a solution to that issue. The next gen consoles after this new one are all going to be "pay-for-playtime" metered rate only. You'll never have to buy any games at all, you'll get to freely choose from anything in the online library of games. Each one will have an hourly rate and you pre-pay into your account before playing, and as you play a game, the system deducts from your account for each minute you're in the game. The games are going to be full of ads too, unless you pay a higher rate for premium ad-free playtime.
Yes, there will be lots of bitching and moaning about this, but if you want to play a console game, you'll cave in to this new billing model. There will be plenty of useful idiots who'll buy in and make the business model successful regardless of all the vocal boycotters.
And each game will cost $100 to leech and drain you of your hard-earned, 30-year unchanged minimum wage, thus XBOX720 games will effectively cost upwards $200, adjusted for inflation and other factors.
I'm switching back to PC gaming, where games are always $20 less than their console brethren, yet audio-visually are light-years ahead of their more-expensive, yet less graphically intensive console siblings.
this piece of shit called xbox 360, is a huge piece of mistake i did buying.
no games for the kinect, but i bought it for the kinect.
nothing interesting,
the video streaming is anal, only if you shave it the way the streamer likes it, you can watch the movie.
i fucking hate my xbox 360, and ill never buy xbox again.
Didn't we hear this same thing about PS3 before launch? I think it's all hype to drive blog traffic. While I'm sure the console manufacturers would love to do this, I honestly won't believe it until I see it, confirmed. Until then I don't understand why everyone get's their shorts in a knot...
You are all so short sided and biting the industry that feeds you. DRM is for game developers, we need game developers or else the whole thing is pointless.
MORE REVENUE = BETTER AND MORE QUALITY GAMES (you want this)
USED GAMES = LOW BUCK ARCADE GAMES FOR PHONES AND TABLETS
Gaming is already damn near the cheapest hobby you can have. Quit whining about not being able to steal. Here's something less tedious than most games: work a SINGLE shift at McDonalds and pay for the damn game.
If a good one came out China has an opening. and the developers will follow the gamers if they want to make money.
Then again perhaps games are just a fad and the whole thing can be annihilated.
They're determined to take the title of most evil tech company back from Apple!
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
I'll admit, I have nothing much against Microsoft (feel free to mob me, after all, it will probably make you feel good to complain to a random internet person who really doesn't care) , but this is going way too far. As a user of the original 360, I already thought the Live system of "You wanna actually PLAY multiplayer? Pay up!" was frankly, just a load of utter horsedung, but now they're really just fucking everything up.
I have satellite internet (regrettably enough) since I live like 5 miles out of the nearest town, and let me tell you, that crap doesn't hold a steady connection if there's so much as a dust cloud in the air. There's also bandwidth limits involved, so if I have to waste almost any amount of data (satellite ISPs must assume that you're Amish, given the sheer easiness of exceeding the bandwidth limit) just to log on and confirm Live crap every time I use the console, then that leaves no data room for almost any other regular internet use, not even a decent length, 360p youtube vid.
Microsoft really either needs to think about their "spectacular ideas" for more than one minute, or just stick to Windows, because they've shown they're at least alright at making a semi-universal OS that everyone can use...oh wait, never mind, they proved they can't even do THAT anymore with 8.
When I was a kid my family didn't have much money. At 12 years old I got a paper route and started earning my own cash. After fixing up my bike and purchasing clothes for school I could spend my money on whatever I wanted. I eventually saved up and purchased a console. I manged two games (at around $49 each) and then decided that the cost was bigger than the benefit. I lived with those two games for around a year an a half. I got by borrowing games from friends and I eventually found a pawn shop that sold used games for $5-$10 per cartridge. Suddenly, games were affordable again. I started stocking up on games and built a love for gaming.
Today I can afford new games. I can afford new consoles and peripherals and subscription fees. I can't say that I pay the prices happily, but I do pay them. In the end, the gaming industry extracts quite a bit of money from me every year. That's money they wouldn't have if they hadn't instilled a love of gaming at a young age.
Today I have kids that love gaming. I want them to develop an appreciation for the things they have so, with the exception of Christmas and birthdays, they have to purchase their own games. They thrive on borrowing games, trading games, and used games. I have no doubt that they will be first in line for new games once they can afford them. In the absence of used games I'd probably buy them new games (but a lesser number than what they get in total today). Still, in today's slow global economy, I have to believe that there are a large number of parents who just don't have this luxury. Parents might be able to make a special Christmas gift of a console for the whole family, but they surely can't regularly spring for a $60 game.
The question I have for Microsoft is why are you even doing this? Why not get rid of the optical drive altogether and adopt the Steam model wholesale?
Because Exede still has a 10 GB per month cap. Some wireless ISPs are even stricter, with a lower monthly cap and no free early morning downloads. With current generation games already topping 30 GB, it could take months to download a game.
And I haven't really owned a console - except possibly the Wii, about five years after it came out, but that was just for casual gaming at parties, etc. - since then. [...] And why, in the same breath, are people mentioning the rumoured "SteamBox" as a good thing? It's EXACTLY the same!
Because the Ouya and Steam box in theory are something that can be dragged out "for casual gaming at parties" without quite as much of a barrier to developers' entry as Nintendo's platform. Allowing startups to develop party games might help break the stagnation of party games.
the technology is there to provide games only digitally
The technology is where? It's not in locations that have no cable provider and no DSL provider. These places rely on wireless ISPs that enforce caps of 10 GB/month or less.
They may rule the ban on selling used items to be unconstitional.
I didn't buy a 360 or PS4 because of micropayments, and I certainly won't buy any next-gen system if it will kill used games or require always-on internet connection.
TBH I don't feel like I'm missing out, there's exactly 2 games on the 360 and 1 on the PS3 that I'd ever be interested in owning.
Sucks though, I thought regular videogames would be around forever, and the internet has kind of ruined what we call games now. Plenty of old stuff to play, I regularly purchase PS2, GC, and SNES games.
people are going to line up in droves to buy it.
i won't be one of them. i liked halo 2 and have kept up with the series. but the older i get, the more i see video games as what they are: a complete waste of time, just like tv and movies. i have better things to do.
[reposted from another story that i accidentally misposted to]
with the steam box from valve there will probably be no used sale market since there is none on steam on windows/mac/linux at present. microsoft eliminating used sales for their console would give a big boost to the steam box by removing a big differentiator, esp. if potential purchasers of the steam box are used to steam sales and think the steambox will have similar.
of course, if microsoft and perhaps sony go down the no resale route, and valve went in the other direction and actually came up with a system of selling your steam attached games to other steam users, maybe taking a cut of the sale; then which console would you buy?
i hope valve introduces resale, there's no reason it couldn't introduce an experiment in resale, a trial period with clear terms & conditions upfront and see what happens, compare it's income before and after. that way the discussion over resale would have some actual evidence brought to it :)
I had this happen recently. I use a prepaid debit cards for online transactions. XBL was billed to a card that was out of money. Next time I went to the store I got another $50 prepaid card, changed the billing info for XBL, XBL accepted the payment, and I was back online.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
I know this is a violation of freedoms, but its a protection of copywrite.
THIS IS A LESSER EVIL in my book
So you're saying the patents and copyrights held by corporations are more important than the rights of individuals?
They have added a camera that watches you in your living room and makes sure there aren't too many people for your enjoyment of your movie.
The fact that the 360 has maybe one or two worthwhile exclusives released per year is what got me to sell it and stick with my PS3. Free online, free access to demos, a fucking built-in wireless adapter, and a homescreen that isn't 90% dedicated to advertising also helped.
The right of first sale has always been very frustrating to game developers/publishers. Since in theory a whole line of people can play (and temporarily own) the same physical copy of the game, getting the same, full, "as new" experience, while only one payment ever goes to the publisher. As a game developer myself i can totally see this frustration myself, but can't really argue with a customers right to sell something they have purchased.
To me there are two major issues that cause resale to be a problem.
A. Most games are designed as consumable experiences - maybe they shouldn't be. Once you have have played through, there is a little to make you want to keep the game, other than the occasional tacked-on multiplayer mode, or the geek-centric urge to collect a "library" of games. On slashdot, car-analogies are popular, but from most points of view, a car is not a consumable purchase. When you sell your car, you lose something very tangible: ie. the ability to get around. Once you sell your (completed) game, you pretty much lose nothing - a closer analogy for many games would be a bowl of ice cream. You buy it, you eat it, and then... wait... it reappears, un-eaten, and you can sell it on too? Awesome!
B. Games are too f***ing expensive. Does no one at MS, wondering why used-games are so popular, stop to think $60 is crazy expensive? I'm positive that sales would more than double at $30, just from the increased impulse buys.There are a lot of people who currently just don't buy *any* games because of the cost. In addition used-game margins would plummet, causing retailers to see them less as an easy revenue stream, and consequently push them less.
So in summary. Give consumers a reason to not want to not sell the game they bought. Also give them less incentive to choose a used copy.
ps. another analogy for a consumable experience is obviously a buying a movie ticket. How does this compare with what MS are (maybe) proposing? And why is it different? (I'm honestly asking.) You buy a ticket, you see the latest, greatest, Fast & Furious movie at the local theater. Right of first sale says you can sell your ticket to someone else, but those f**kers at the door ripped your ticket in half! Is this really any different from an activation code?
Here's the scenario I picture...
1) release the console without this "feature"
2) wait 6 months to a year
3) release a system update that can't be declined that implements this "feature"
I'm not sure if you mean PTP WiMax ISPs by Wireless ISPs (in which case if they don't fix their caps they're going to lose customers fast) or mobile phone ISPs, in which case you're unlikely to be hooking a games console up to it or using it as your primary home ISP
I seem to remember one of the mobile phone ISPs buying one of the WiMAX ISPs to expand its "4G" network. Am I thinking of Clearwire?
In the real world, a typical cap is something in the order of magnitude of Comcast's 250GB limit.
This is true in areas served by a cable or DSL provider. Not all areas are, especially more rural areas.
When was the last time you downloaded a game from Steam that wasn't a few gigabytes in size at most?
I imagine that most developers of games available for both the PC and Xbox 360 are trying to fit under the 7 GB limit of a single Xbox 360 disc.
no local storage
Every PlayStation 3 console has a hard drive, and I seem to remember Sony allowing users to replace it with a bigger 2.5" SATA drive.
...that may very well be how Valve ends up resolving the issue. He's already talking about figuring out how to implement player to player transactions for stuff that players create.
I've been a fan of my ps3 since I bought it, as a good chunk of my friends have it, the games on it tend to focus less on "OMG SHOOTER GAME#1232".
Awhile ago there wasthat story on the ps4 having the "fee for used games" thing, as well as account locks.
I immediately discarded the idea of buying a ps4, thought maybe i'd buy the next gen microsoft console instead, despite hating shooting games.
Well, looks like I'm not getting this either. Guess I'll just have to get a Wii-U/stick to PC.
As much as I rag on Nintendo for being sub-par, at least they haven't become douchebaggy yet.
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
Give your competition a leg up.
Both are bad ideas.
I've always been a PC gamer, and expect to stay that way. Why would I want a separate gaming system with lame, outdated hardware that I can't upgrade or modify, when I already have a fast, adaptable, transferrable, universally capable gaming rig that offers me superior control over bullshit, imprecise gaming controllers?! You put me up against a console gamer in the same game and I'll kick your ass . Badly. This is a widely known, demonstrated reality.
There hasn't been a logical reason to have a separate gaming system since at least the days of the N64-- At least aside from developers making their titles console, only. So I say screw Sony, and screw Microsoft's hardware division. In fact, screw ALL CONSOLE PLATFORMS. I already have a superior gaming experience without the underhanded policies they're evolving, and their namby pamby hardware.
And some will wish to speak about how you can use consoles to expand media viewing options through your TV. There's no technical reason why a PC couldn't do exactly the same thing, if only development was shifted over to it in the same degree that it is toward consoles. There are PC options you could use now, for that matter.
I venture an (admittedly strong) opinion...
Microsoft really needs to improve their XBox UI, in particular the online store UI, if they want this to do really well. For instance, make it more responsive, give me better filtering options, let me remove items so I don't keep scrolling through the same stuff that I'm not interested in. I've bought a bunch of games online and, while I hate to not have the ability to sell a game after I've played it, realistically the resale value (of the types of games I buy) is pitiful. I'm more happy not to have to switch disks all the time. That being said, the price of XBox hard disks needs to come down, too. Ideally, let the user plug in their own USB3 hard disk or perform some other upgrade on their own.
...at least for media like books, movies, and games. More: http://snarfed.org/2011-11-16_should_first_sale_doctrine_die
about an article with absolutely no citations indicating any truth!! Perhaps I did not see it, but TFA only says "Rumors continue to swirl"! Where are these rumors coming from?
This article is nothing but troll bait!
I bought a copy of Borderlands for XBox 360 used. It's true the developer did not receive compensation for that transaction. However, I ended up liking the game enough that I eventually purchased each of the DLC expansions, for which the developer presumably did receive compensation. I pre-ordered Borderlands 2 shortly after its release was announced and bought some of the BL2 DLC as well.
If I had not had the opportunity to purchase a used copy of the first game for $15, it's very unlikely any of my money would have found its way into Gearbox's coffers, as I wasn't willing to take a ~ $65 flier on a new copy of the game. I don't doubt I'm the only casual videogame buyer out there who operates like this.
Thanks M$. I suddenly want a Wii U!
Anyone else feel like these "leaks" are really market research in disguise?
If ubisoft and EA have shown us anything over the last few years its that always on never works. Interruption at home? Yep you lose all your unsaved game. Interruption with your ISP, major node some where, at the data center, or maybe a server failure, slight down time (anywhere) and you get to replay everything again.
I'm also going to assume that this activation code that will be required to be used will not give me the ability to download the game if the disk is lost or destroyed, or if I lose my game I will not be able to get a discounted price for the physical disk? Oh and I'm just guessing here but if I did buy a new copy my old save games wouldn't work with the different "game" will they?
Its like they WANT people to pirate games and software. Why go though all this when I can simply download/burn the game and play it for free? Sounds much easier.
TruePunk | Games
Wow... If I don't pay my bill they cut off my ability to access their service that they're hosting. This is lame.
1. it's not their responsibility to monitor your finances. It's yours. If your account or credit card is deactivated, but that's the only account they have on file, they'r enot going to notify you. Why should they. That's your responsibility and for them to do so would be a huge overhead in administration for their entire customer base.
2. You're emotionally attached to the subject. Try substituting this scenario with something else and look at it from the business perspective. For instance. Try not paying your rent or mortgage and then tell the bank/landlord "but I have all kinds of money invested in my stuff in there" when they don't let you back inside for failure to pay. Guess what, businesses don't give a rip. They're not here to baby you and let you slide this one time. They're in business to make money. It's like that in every business. You're nice and polite when you're doing business and you're even courteous and go out of your way to be kind when you're lending support to a customer, but if they don't have any money for the transaction or the services rendered then that's tough luck and next in line please. MS doesn't run a charity. Bill Gates might, but MS doesn't.
You must be from the "wha wha, it's not fair" and "everyone gets a trophy for losing" generation judging by your response to this scenario
I don't understand why people are so against this. It's better for gaming in general to eliminate second hand sales because it takes potential sales away from the developers and publishers. I've bought several games new and I never once had the irrational idea that the publisher or developer was going to somehow take away my ability to play it legitimately. I put in my copy of the game I bought and I play it (either on the account or the machine that I bought it for). No if's and's or but's about it.
This is going to increase developer's budgets which will lead to better games and hopefully with the increased revenue from sales we may even see the same sales that STEAM does on the LIVE network. I'm not opposed to this one bit. I don't want to borrow a game from somebody and play it. Give me a demo and if the demo is good then I'll buy the game. That simple. The demo's free. Most games nowadays have demos so you don't blindly purchase a game that you're not sure you'll even like or not.
I have a huge STEAM library that I can't turn in for more money towards another game, but so what? I only paid full first day price for like 3 or 4 games. The rest I bought on huge sales. I also can't play them on my buddies PC without first associating my account to that computer, but I don't care. Why didn't my friend buy it when it came out or when it was on huge sale? Maybe he/she should download the demo and buy the game if they like it.
Bottom line is that I'm all for developers reaping the full reward of their labor and that income going toward growing new IP's and expanding on the whole gaming experience. I don't care about Game Stop's bottom line. They don't add any value to the gaming experience. They're the middle man that's taking a cut out of the game producer's income. If this was a drug cartel and the cartel could sell straight from the producers to the end users without middle men, they would. Just good business sense. Everyone who's seen a movie about drug cartels knows that the middle man gets cut out after introducing the product to the customers. Think of Game Stop and other stores that deal in used games as the middle man and Developers and Publishers are the cartel.
I say bring it. Lets stop putting money in Game Stop's hands (they don't add any value to the games) and start giving it to the people who actually add value to the gaming experience. Bet we'd see less companies folding up or canceling good projects because they're strapped for cash I'd bet.
Well they wont KILL the used market just change forms now when we buy used consoles we also get to buy all the software that was licensed to it. Sniff sniff I smell a pretty strong exploit.
So from another standpoint, I am just wondering if your fancy new Durango or 720 breaks, because, we all know how reliable new electronics can be (overheating RROD). Does that mean you lose all the games you have played with that system? You have to buy them all over again?! That should be fun...(Insert sarcasm here)
If this rumor proves true, it will turn a major part Gamestop's (and others) sales model on its ear, which I'd love to see happen, but I don't think it will. Unless MS and the publishers introduce some sort of DRM "reset" fee for approved business partners. Also, with all this chicken little talk about DRM and always on, the question of backwards compatibility is nicely muted.
I only play games on my Kinect naked. Sometimes my paranoia kicks in and i pull the internet cable out of the back...watch, their next OS won't boot without a dial home either. Leaving me with an only Linux option on my yet to be purchased dual boot win 9/xbuntu laptop next time i deploy. There are many time and circumstances when i don't have internets, or a practical way to put the internets on the device i intend to use, Or just don't want hardware on the internets.
Seems to me that actually doing this would be a very bad move for the economy and would put a large hole in one sector of it. Not sure certain powers that be would allow this. Also, it would seem that M$ would only be shooting themselves in the foot like this by damaging the very industry they depend on to live. (xbox division that is)
Stop buying M$ and Sony products. They are obviously antagonistic towards consumers, so quit supporting their bullshit. Instead, go by a PC or one of numerous consoles coming out. Or get a Wii.
Being able to resell games helps the overall market but may not be apparent when looking at one title. Lets take this scenario: Game costs 60 bucks gamer 1 has 100 to spend gamer 2 has 40 dollars to spend, in the current scenario gamer one can buy a 60 dollar game get 20 for it and buy a second 60 dollar game while gamer 2 who has to wait a few weeks for gamer 1 to be done with the game now purchases the the game for 35. Industry nets 120 dollars and both gamers get what they want. however in a no resail scenario gamer 1 buys a 60 dollar game and spends the rest of his money on Mountain Dew and Nachos while gamer 2 just buys Mountain Dew and Nachos and plays a game he already has... Everyone gets fatter an diabetes and the industry only nets 60 dollars... no one wins. In essence being able to resell games allows people to pool their money and buy more games.
really they do, when people hear that, oh boy, I am gonna feel for the new xbox, it is gonna be behind its competitor, then it will reconfigure it s makeup just to catch up. really they thin their gonna do that and make money? people are not gonna be happppyyy..telling you. used games save people money, and when a company in the past has prevented people from using their money wisely guess what happened? that is right, it will be boycott time. trust me watch what happens.the old adage goes"he who does not learn from history is condemned to repeat it" now its microsoft who's repeating it. tsk tsk, they do not even know what is coming there way, when there the ones making it that way, seriously.
What the hell happens to the poor gamer whose console dies (because things like "red rings of death" NEEVVEERR happen....)?
Gamer buys replacement console, and game tells gamer to go pound sand??? Sorry pal, hit the bricks, you're own your own!
It's amazing that the music, movie and game industries are so self-destructive and hell-bent on enraging the dwindling paying customers that they have!
Microsoft and Steam represent the big dogs in just one of the entertainment industries. The others are mobile, broadcast, film, and audio. The latter three have found ways to limit consumer flexibility in order to increase profits and are constantly striving to boost profitability (holding satellite and cable companies for ransom every time contracts are renewed, delaying release to DVD rental outfits like Netflix to increase theater and DVD purchase revenues, renaming property theft as "piracy" which originally was a violent capital crime, region codes, getting the FBI on their side, etc. for example). Mobile app providers have stores that enforce locking apps to a device-user combination (though some allow multiple devices per account). It is only logical the game industry would like a similar regime of restrictions and take them as far as the market and government judicial/legislative entities will allow. Consoles offer a different feature/restriction mix than PCs but I think they'll eventually die out in favor of more generic devices like tablet-laptop hybrids that offer flexibility in game sources. Microsoft knows this and are testing waters with on-line service delivery a la Office 2013. But they'll stave it off for games as long as they can do so profitably while they build their distribution prowess sufficiently to take on Steam. When you join a market, you submit to the lowest common denominator of consumer demand in terms of price and features. Don't like it? Don't join the market. You have a choice.
I have a lot of children, consequently I own two consoles. Attach a game to a console and I would have to be very careful about which console owns the game because it is clear that I'm not the owner. Then when a console dies... well I guess that was the intended lifespan of the software I purchased.
Link it to an account and now I either have a single user on two machines and none of the other accounts can play the games or worse you have to change users to play a different game - we have 8 accounts, I wonder which one this game belongs to... Now I need to consult a spreadsheet to play a game.
If Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo want to make my gaming life more difficult I will keep my money to spend on something that makes my life more enjoyable - after all, its just games - not like I can't live without it.
who cares about xbox720; I still do 99% of my gaming on my desktop comp and I will continue to do so.The PC is still the superior gaming platform for both developers and gamers.
Like the eponymous player in the song Pinball Wizard, "I must've played them all," but I'm so fed up with the black heart of corporate gaming that I can see a move like this by MS or Sony driving me away from consoles.
I don't want Pay-2-Win on IOS games, I don't want to buy missing features for AAA titles as DLC, I don't want DRM hoops to jump through and I surely don't want a system requiring an always-on connection. Over Comcast -- are you kidding? I'm lucky if my Comcast connection is even usually-on.
It might be different, slightly, if gaming hadn't spent the last decade becoming less and less diverse, cannibalizing itself, regurgitating lots of paint-by-numbers stuff we've seen so many times already. So adding monetary injury to the insult of omnipresent banality is really a northbridge too far.
Lately, I find myself on GOG buying old titles for a pittance. They aren't all nirvana -- some plainly haven't held up -- but a few are quite amusing and richly satisfying (I'm looking at you, Dungeon Keeper). The 360 and PS3 sit in their boxes, unpacked for months since a recent house move. The iPad games go unthumbed. Gaming from before the present era of nonstop exploitation holds out its low-poly hand, and it's really WYSIWYG: the other mitt isn't concealed behind its back with a billy club!
I'm looking forward to Xbox 720.
a good store
And you thought it was "your" XBox? And "your" game? Heh. Heh. Heh. Read the EULA which holds the rules of the real game--did you agree with it? ...It *was* "your" money before you tossed it and your precious time away on proprietary throw away, junk. Now the vendor wants even more revenue so they simply change the real "game" they play with their precious customers. If you buy into it by paying for hardware and games, then you approve their behavior--no matter what you say or believe. Actions speak. Money speaks.
What to do?
Play the real game of life, "actual reality" instead and you will get much further for the time and money you spend. No modern day video game holds a candle to it. "Actual Reality" offers full vision scope and full vision resolution in real 3D space, a physically unconstrained 3D playing surface, all human senses are supported, total physical immersion in real time, can be very dangerous if you want, rewarding, exciting, and free to play. There are tons of games available. Try the basketball version--it is **totally cool**. How about the "Real Rock Star"? How about "Pool Hustler"--could be very dangerous. "Ping Pong Master"? How about "Electrical Engineer" or "Chemical Engineer"? Yea, they do take some time to master. All of them are *incredibly fun* and rewarding. Many of them can net you some serious $$CASH! Once you get hooked on these you will never go back to dull boring video games designed to pick your pocket and waste your precious time away--and these are truly "your" games to keep and play as long as you desire. They upgrade automatically upon learning of new skills related to the game--for free.