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Fake Engine Noise Is the Auto Industry's Dirty Little Secret
HughPickens.com writes Stomp on the gas in a new Ford Mustang or F-150 and you'll hear a meaty, throaty rumble — the same style of roar that Americans have associated with auto power and performance for decades. Now Drew Harwell reports at the Washington Post that the auto industry's dirty little secret is that the engine growl in some of America's best-selling cars and trucks is actually a finely tuned bit of lip-syncing, boosted through special pipes or digitally faked altogether. "Fake engine noise has become one of the auto industry's dirty little secrets, with automakers from BMW to Volkswagen turning to a sound-boosting bag of tricks," writes Harwell. "Without them, today's more fuel-efficient engines would sound far quieter and, automakers worry, seemingly less powerful, potentially pushing buyers away." For example Ford sound engineers and developers worked on an "Active Noise Control" system on the 2015 Mustang EcoBoost that amplifies the engine's purr through the car speakers. Afterward, the automaker surveyed members of Mustang fan clubs on which processed "sound concepts" they most enjoyed.
Among purists, the trickery has inspired an identity crisis and cut to the heart of American auto legend. The "aural experience" of a car, they argue, is an intangible that's just as priceless as what's revving under the hood. "For a car guy, it's literally music to hear that thing rumble," says Mike Rhynard, "It's a mind-trick. It's something it's not. And no one wants to be deceived." Other drivers ask if it really matters if the sound is fake? A driver who didn't know the difference might enjoy the thrum and thunder of it nonetheless. Is taking the best part of an eight-cylinder rev and cloaking a better engine with it really, for carmakers, so wrong? "It may be a necessary evil in the eyes of Ford," says Andrew Hard, "but it's sad to think that an iconic muscle car like the Mustang, a car famous for its bellowing, guttural soundtrack, has to fake its engine noise in 2015. Welcome to the future."
Among purists, the trickery has inspired an identity crisis and cut to the heart of American auto legend. The "aural experience" of a car, they argue, is an intangible that's just as priceless as what's revving under the hood. "For a car guy, it's literally music to hear that thing rumble," says Mike Rhynard, "It's a mind-trick. It's something it's not. And no one wants to be deceived." Other drivers ask if it really matters if the sound is fake? A driver who didn't know the difference might enjoy the thrum and thunder of it nonetheless. Is taking the best part of an eight-cylinder rev and cloaking a better engine with it really, for carmakers, so wrong? "It may be a necessary evil in the eyes of Ford," says Andrew Hard, "but it's sad to think that an iconic muscle car like the Mustang, a car famous for its bellowing, guttural soundtrack, has to fake its engine noise in 2015. Welcome to the future."
For some, having engine noise is fine. However, the '70s and '80s with the purring V8s are gone, and the vehicles that will be the norm will either be hybrids, diesels, or electric cars.
As someone who likes modern cars, we don't need any more noise added. In fact, there is something nice about a Tesla or Prius's silence at idle.
I've seen people drill holes in their muffler and think they have a Maserati.
Noise is pollution, too. Maybe along with fuel efficiency standards and so forth we ought to have some noise regulation.
Some guys are in it for the power, and thus the engine noise is wasted energy.
Some guys are in it for the feel, and thus the engine noise is the most important thing about the car.
Can you make my car produce the sound of the Jetson's flying car? I would pay for that!
Can we turn it off? If not, they are spending a lot of money on something that would add negative value for guys like me. The reason I don't ride a motorcycle or even keep the convertible top open on the highway is that I can't stand the noise and have no interest in going deaf.
So, this is bee-sting lips, but for cars?
Pure artifice to match an arbitrary aesthetic, and nothing at all to do with reality?
LOL ... But, honey, the car doesn't make my penis bigger if it doesn't make that sound.
The idea of running the vroom vroom sounds through the car stereo to sound more manly is ... well, kinda funny.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I'd rather just have a quieter car.
This is nothing new. The 'exhaust sound' was part of the design criteria of the 1st Gen Mazda Miata. Trying to recreate British sports cars (Lotus).
from the outside, I don't care.
What do they call those dumb mufflers that make Hondas sound like straining go-karts?
The young idiots with too much money buy them. They stomp on the gas at a green light and it sounds like they're drag racing. I gently touch the gas on my car and easily out-accelerated them without making any significant noise. I'll bet they figure it out about two or three days after they buy the trucks that they really have no acceleration or speed to speak of but rather simply noise.
I see a unmet need for my car sounding like a unlicensed nuclear accelerator. "Switch me on".
This article is pretty old news. The woman leased a GMC Terrian back in 2012 and the dealer straight up told us on the test drive it was fake noise and to please not overestimate the vehicles performance.
Volvo, Audi, etc... Sorry, but American auto-makers (Tesla the likely exception), well, suck on almost every front when you technically strip down what they have to offer. They're a decade behind of where we honestly should be with technology, styling, and efficiency.
If I didn't require a car (I like to travel around the US beyond what public transportation and the good will of others provides), I wouldn't have one!
'Nuff said.
I must *really* not be a car guy, but I just don't understand the appeal of engine noise. I hear an ICS engine roaring and all I can think is "That ancient technology is really struggling with its task."
The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.
All cars should emit noise, especially electric and hybrid ones. Who wants to end up as a pancake because they didn't hear Tesla Motor's Silent Killer coming.
I've been aware of this since it existed. Maybe I'm just more in tune to such things. I never though much of it because I understand a little bit about marketing and purchasing psychology.
F that. Give me the quietest car possible. I'd much rather listen to my music or my companions speaking to me than the damn engine!
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
I would be a lot sadder, but for the fact that all that V8 rumble is just the result of an unbalanced engine with a cross plane crankshaft.
Well designed engines produce a lot less noise, and they have to.
So if you want to have the sound of a bad engine without the side effects, playback seems like a logical option. And yes, pretty much everybody is messing with the sound.
So what? Your average motorcycle could be quieter too and they're much more offensive than the "muscle" cars. How about the ricers who buy an aftermarket muffler to make their car sound like a mobile fart box? You going to do an article about that too?
I agree that less noise is a plus but I doubt any auto under 6 digits is designed with minimum noise in mind. It's a not really an issue.
Years ago I saw a doc on Harley Davidson and a part of the design process was ensuring that the bikes made the "correct" HD noise*. What was interesting for a technical perspective was seeing a bike in an anechoic chamber, which had a robot arm waving around an array of microphones so that they could localize sounds emanating from different parts of the bike.
While I had no idea that car manufactures were doing this to such an extreme, it's not surprising when you are selling an image rather than just a product.
* what will be more fun in the future is seeing what the HD sound will be if their electric bike takes off. The reviews I have seen from the test riders have been really positive.
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
Personally, I like the quieter cars, both in everyday traffic and in racing. Unlike many others, I enjoy the new turbo V6's in Formula One for example, and it would be interesting to see how much faster the turbo V6's would be than the previous eras if they were allowed to use the aerodynamics regs of those eras(That's what actually slowed down the 2014 F1 cars, the greater restrictions on aero).
I also enjoy the LMP1 hybrids that are much quieter than their spiritual ancestors, the Group C prototypes.
For me, within a given engine type, more noise=less impressive, since it shows that it's badly engineered and wasting energy.
Every bit of energy that goes out in noise is power that is not applied to the wheels.
Can we pipe in the sound of squealing tires every time I turn? I want my ride to work to sound like an '80s movie car chase.
Guess it's the geek in me, but when I think of all the noise being generated I think "Why is this energy going into sound instead of the wheels?" Sure, when I was a kid we all thought it was cool to flip the air filter covers and get glass packs, but now I think it is like sticking cards in your bicycle spokes. This is especially true now that I have had a chance to drive a Tesla: No vibration, or excess sound, just smooth power going right where you want it. Put your foot in it, and you are pushed back in your seat with very little noise. Driving a Tesla, or any decent electric is almost a transcendental experience after driving ICE cars. I read a review by someone who said Rolls Royce has to come out with an electric car because the experience is so much better. Of course electric cars are dangerously quiet for pedestrians, so a noise maker at low speeds is legit. Audi has been busy making interesting concept sounds for their electric vehicles.
Imagine how much harder physics would be if electrons had feelings! -Feynman, maybe
These are real car guys buying these noise-makers, people. The kind that know enough about cars to put you to shame. The kind that would never settle for anything less than the authentic growl of an All-American V8. LOL indeed.
It helps if you can listen to the engine and really get a good idea how it is running. It was part of troubleshooting before the computers.
People want to feel in tune with what they are using, and sound helps with that. I'll grant that power doesn't have to be loud, and shouldn't be obnoxious in any case, but I can understand that it gives many people more of a connection to their vehicle.
I think that people will get over it, but it will be the end of an era.
Faking engine sounds is a conman's ruse.
Newer diesels like in recent-model dodge 2500 cummins are extraordinarily quiet (and powerful) compared to older models. That's progress.
Also, nobody wants to hear you gunning your shitty car or motorcycle. Engine noise and loud-modified exhaust doesn't mean your vehicle has balls, power does.
Who are we to take them away?
Of course, by the same argument, do you really have to make it a requirement? Better to make it an option so that those of us that don't want the extra noise don't have to pay you extra to get it.
Which is the real point of course - stop charging me for things you think I want, without getting my specific permission. This clearly should be an add-on option, not a requirement.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
I used to work for a large auto company from Japan, and at the end of the day most of what makes a car or truck is snake oil, but if we quit doing it people stop buying it. We might intentionally introduce inefficiencies in the exhaust to increase that "rally car" sound. Bucket seats and offset head rests trick you into folding your legs and rolling your shoulders in, making the car seem more spacious. Truck tricks include obese front grills despite the engine being efficient enough not to warrant them. And those big bulgy hoods? nowhere near the engine size. To make up for it, and make you feel like our technology is more advanced, we put plastic guards and bezels on top of the engine. It makes the engine look larger for someone who doesnt know what an engine looks like outside of a car or truck, and that sells.
an we never stopped there. to make up for the gearing required to get that 40mpg, we might program the computer to hold a lower gear longer or shorter to make the car seem "peppier" than it really is. simple things like a vertical indicator on the speedometer can help people associate the product they own with the racecar version they saw in the movie. Making that connection is critical, especially in trucks. Most of our trucks cost upwards of 30 grand, something blue collar could never afford. but if we associate it with blue collar, add splash guards and lift, and run a few ads? instant joe six pack. Actual blue collar construction workers drive, in most cases, an old mid nineties hatchback or 4 door sedan. They have kids to feed.
So grow up. no, your new 4 cylinder mustang wont roar like a bored out foxbody with glass packs, but you know what? it also gets 36 mpg and doesnt require 93 octane. It doesnt spew benzene and MTBE from the tailpipe because we gave it a catalytic converter. and it wont roll over and kill your kids because we added stability control, and govenment mandated roofing that can hold the weight of our car.
Good people go to bed earlier.
TFTitle is stupid: none of this is a secret, every car manufacturer that does this readily admits it to the motoring press.
I, for one want my car to be as quiet as possible so I'd want the option to disable it. Or I can do what I've done with my current car: replace the stereo.
Pretty sure they had a show about this on one of the erstwhile learning channels. They also fine-tune the sound the door makes to sound more solid on more expensive cars.
We are a decadent society, we invest countless resources into trivial nonsense.
Or you could just design the best, most efficient quite engine. Turns out that the human brain can detect efficiency. So naturally efficient, streamlined shapes and sounds are always aesthetically pleasing.
Of course we all benefit from patents, copyright & trademarks, right?
There may be a battle brewing in the sound of cars. ~20 years ago, Harley Davidson tried to trademark the sound of their motorcycle, but that didn't pass. Many others have though and we can expect more as 'sound branding' becomes more widespread.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...
http://mentalfloss.com/article...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...
...omphaloskepsis often...
My wife has a Passat with the TDI diesel... On the highway, with cruise control set, I feel like I'm stuck in the movie "Airplane!".
And sometimes it goes wrong. Like my C-Max
http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/3457-strange-long-wooooo-sound-at-steady-speeds-ice-on/
Noise helps pedestrians be aware of that two-ton piece of metal and plastic hurdling down the road. If a vehicle is too silent, it increases the risk of pedestrian-vehicle accidents. Noise is good, and we may as well may it something we're familiar with.
http://www.psmag.com/navigatio...
"Sorrow is better than laughter, for by sadness of face the heart is made glad." [Ecclesiastes 7:3]
Check out this link....scroll down to the section on "Engine Sound".
http://auto.ferrari.com/en_en/...
They actually tune it musically.
"You cannot find out which view is the right one by science in the ordinary sense." - C.S. Lewis on Intelligent Design
This isn't new news. The sound of the recent Mustang was created by tweaking the pipes in exhaust. The sound designer, who I don't thing was born during the muscle car 60's, needed a source to find out what the Mustang sounded like. So, he used the sound of the Mustang in The movie Bullet, staring Steven McQueen. The people involved in making Bullet have explained that the Mustang sound was dubbed it, and, hum, may not have even been a Mustang engine sound. So, we have a reproduction of a fake?
They also have been making the front grill work and likes to look like and angry face in a ear view mirror, on purpose.
==
Comments here will go down a predictable route. Car enthusiasts favor speed, horsepower, acceleration and waking up people at 3 AM with a noisy car. Soccer mom's want big boats called SUV's. Nerdy or practical types want something that gets you there, with safety and economy above all else. Many want something fancy to show off. A lot of people have contempt for anyone not in their herd.
==
Recommended reading: Amory Lovins, he was involved in concept care about 10 years ago.
And, Twinkies Deconstructed, and interesting book about the ingredients in Twinkies. To sum um, Twinkies are an amazing achievement in making a snack treat that looks like a creme filled fluffy cake, but although it is mostly sugar and flour, is to reality what CGI is photography. And now, car sounds.
I assert is all started with Carol Doda. (Google her)
Harley (HOG) has been doing this for decades.
Now Detroit are hogs!
JJ
This is a missed marketing opportunity. Car manufacturers need to expose an API so that third-party developers can provide owners with their own sounds -- sounds that respond to the state of the car.
Want a car that sounds like the Jetsons' flying car when you take off from a light? Now you can. Want your Prius to sound like an F1 Lotus? It's downloadable. Want your econobox to sound like a muscle car? We're here to serve you.
The good part is, the quieter the car is, the more effective the sounds will be, so those of us that like silence will benefit, too. It's a win-win!
I like having fast, quiet, high performance servers. I don't like them in my CAR. Too much to go wrong among other things. I'll stick to a Chevelle SS 454 with a procharger and methanol thanks.
Ford been doing this for a long time. At lest in the 70's till now. Mustangs are one that have had a "tuned" exhaust. You don't have to see a mustang to know it is a mustang. Just know the exhaust notes.
If I hear your engine noise, with you trying to rev louder? I think "You're a cock".
You might even have a nice car, but chances are you have some horrible shit modification to something quite mainstream. Either way, to have to rev it so I can hear? You're a cock.
If you have to have the sound inside to convince yourself it's fast? You're a cock.
Cars today are faster and more powerful than the Formula One vehicles of my father's days. You have no need to show off, you cock. Any fucking idiot can get to 120/130 mph in their car these days. Hell, I've seen a Fiat Panda 1000S get to 100mph. My 20-year-old, nothing-special, cheap-shit car did 130mph before I chickened out on an Autobahn.
There's nothing car-wise to show off about except how much money you've pissed away on it.
Loud music.
Loud exhaust sounds.
Revving the engine.
Removing badges.
Stupid fucking lighting systems to make your cheap shit car look like a Christmas ornament at great expense.
Adding crap like spoilers and twin exhausts to cars that aren't built with them.
Buying cars with crap like spoilers and twin exhausts and then driving them on a public road (fast or slow!).
You're a cock.
And, unfortunately for you, 99.9% of people on the road know it and think exactly the same.
If you want to quite literally BURN MONEY on shit like that, whether the car is genuinely "fast" or not, on a car that you have to drive behind old grannies, and slow down every mile for a speed camera, and wreck to shit on every speed bump, and still spend as much time sitting in traffic as I do, then feel free.
But really? If you buy a car BECAUSE it sounds meaty, then you're a cock.
Like Idiocracy (or some other story I read), and the morons of the future thought their cars went faster because of the wind blowing their hair. Even though it was from hidden fans inside the car.
Engineers at Samsung, Apple and other marketing conscious companies are sometimes asked to do unusual tasks. At Honda, planning the introduction of the 6 cylinder CBX motorcycle in the 1970s, sound design became important:
"From the beginning," Irimajiri explained, "our Six produced a smooth jetlike exhaust sound. But with an ordinary exhaust arrangement, it wasn't that close to a jet. We thought if we worked on it we could come up with a motorcycle sound like no one has ever heard before.
"So we sent some engineers to the Hyakuri Japanese Air Force base in Chiba prefecture. For ten days they tape-recorded the sound of Phantom jet fighters, and then came back and designed an exhaust system for the CBX that could duplicate that sound. When I heard it for the first time I was amazed; they had captured the Phantom sound perfectly."
from: http://www.motorcyclespecs.co....
short Wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H...
hear the sound: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
...omphaloskepsis often...
As a Leaf Electric car driver, I can say that the lack of engine noise is one of the primary benefits of an electric car.
I hear things on my commute that I didn't even know existed prior to my Leaf. I hear birds chirping, walk ways for the blind clicking, subtle details in my music, and occasionally, total silence. It's calming. It's also kinda cool to accelerate hard off the line (faster than most gas cars can do) with near silence.
The car does chirp externally when backing up, but it's not very audible from within the car. Perhaps a similar chirp when driving forward at a slow speed would work.
My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
Jeremy, on Top Gear, is so fond of the "symphony of power" and comparisons to fighter planes. The idea that external sound represents wasted power is so . . . . abstract.
When you have something named EcoBoost, you can't expect great sounds from the engine....
This is the plot gimmick used in the horrible movie "The Dilemma" starring Vince Vaughn and his fake sound makers to make Dodge electric car engines sound "less gay".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
I drive an electric car. At low speeds, say under 20mph, people NEVER hear or see my car coming. These are also the speeds I'm typically driving at when pedestrians are around. People always meander in front of my car or jump in surprise when the turn and see me cruising past them a few feet to the side of them. I sometimes honk. I sometimes pause extra long. There is definitely a need to account for it.
At higher speeds, sure there's tire noise.
My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
All kids under 10 love to have a playing card clipped into their bicycle spokes. It just sounds so bad ass.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
At least the music industry still has some integrity.
Fake wind and engine noise in so called "rocket cars" was a plot point in this short story IIRC.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
> Without them, today's more fuel-efficient engines would sound far quieter
Lets talk jets.
I remember a CF-101 Voodoo doing it's first pass over Borden at about 200 feet in full burner. Car alarms went off, children screaming, it was amazing.
Then came the CF-18. Soo boring. Even the F-22's a wimp in comparison.
Maybe we should add fake noise at air shows?
Seriously?
I live up the block from a whole slew of bars in Fremont in Seattle and you're telling me the noise that wakes me up is because some idiot engineers thought it would be "cool" to add it in?
Give me their names and addresses so I can hunt them down ...
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
WHile the "piping it through the stereo" stuff is new (and in my IMO stupid), car companies have been tuning exhausts to get a particular sound for years. I remember when they gave the 911 a water cooled engine about 15 years ago and Porsche made a costly and concerted effort to engineer the exhaust to retain the old air cooled motor's sound.
This sort of reminds me of when Motorola was putting fake antennas on their cellular phones (with the real antenna inside) because they thought people wouldn't buy the phone if it didn't have a visible antenna. But eventually, society learned that an visible antenna was not necessary and we moved on. I suspect in another 20 years most cars will be a lot more quiet as a result of hybrid and electric drivetrains. I've been driving an EV now for 3 years and now that I've grown accustomed to the silence, hearing any engine noise at all sounds so yesterday, so obsolete.
There is nothing ridiculous about mandating some amount of noise in the meantime.
I completely disagree. If you mandate noise you will never get silence. Plus once you get enough cars close together you almost can't distinguish them anyway because it basically becomes white noise. Just because people have become accustomed to a certain amount of noise is not a credible argument for continuing to emit noise pollution needlessly. And no, I am not at all concerned about blind or inattentive pedestrians crossing the road in front of me. It's MY responsibility as a driver to drive carefully and watch out for possible road hazards. It is also their responsibility to watch out when crossing the road. Hell, people get hit by trains while walking and they make a huge racket and are 100% avoidable by staying off the tracks.
Rather than add noise, I suggest they use noise canceling tech to silence the inside of the car, or at least have the option to do so.
That mandated noise IS entirely a safety issue
It is a perceived safety issue and I don't buy the arguments in favor of mandating noise pollution. If it really were a problem we should expect to see cars that are quieter than average involved in proportionally more collisions that cars that are more noisy. I've not seen one speck of evidence that quiet cars get in more accidents due to their sound levels. It is to my mind a completely nonsensical argument with no evidence to support it.
As long as it's clear to the buyer what's going on, who cares?
People spend good $ on stupid crap all the time.
Is an automobile owner paying for "fake engine sound" any sillier than someone spending $15 a month to kill pretend monsters to get pretend gear to better kill pretend monsters?
Personally, I admire the efficiency of an engine that can generate 200+ horsepower that you can barely hear from 10' away. That's astonishing, if you think about it. But I get it, some people want the sound. Seems sorta silly to me, but that's just me.
-Styopa
People will just have to adapt to the fact that you can't trust your hearing to know if a car is coming or not anymore.
No they don't, actually.
Situational awareness matters at all ages, audio and visual clues are helpful --- and if people decide they want to keep them in place, it's the geek who will have to make the adjustment, not the other way around.
It was the geek's sense of entitlement, his in-your-face attitude, that killed Google Glass. The very definition of what it means to be Glasshole,
Domino's is already ahead of the game here. If you're faking engine noise, might as well get creative with it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
"Well kids, you tried your best, and you failed. The lesson is, never try." -Homer Simpson
Quiet (or as quiet as possible) is one aesthetic that may be desirable. For other people (or perhaps cars), a good rumble (as long as it not excessively load and obnoxious) is equally a desirable aesthetic. It's not so different, as you note, than choice of paint job.
The problem is that silent is never obnoxious but the "good rumble" often is. I can comprehend that some people enjoy a loud car (I do not) but I think the default should be silence. Make them quiet and people who make them loud should have to pay extra for the noise pollution they create.
There are some VERY quiet small cars in Europe, and, as a pedestrian and cyclist, I hate the damn things. You can't hear them coming. They creep around corners - if you rely on your ears to warn you that something is coming, you'll get killed. Local cops here use one of these tiny, almost silent cars to prowl around. The fact is, quiet engines are the product of good engineering advances. But it's a bad idea to have silent cars. I believe there is legislation mandating that cars have to make a certain level of sound while in motion for safety reasons.
Tires are almost silent on paved roads
The hell they are. Tire noise accounts for 70-90% of overall noise energy when travelling over 50mph.
Have someone put their car in neutral and turn the engine off as they roll down a hill toward you.
I will notice the car getting louder and louder as its speed increases. What's your point?
This was a feature of the cars in Kornbluth's story. Lots of chrome and varoom, not much performance.
.
Someone in my neighbourhood has an older Acura NSX. Beautiful discount supercar. I noticed it is almost silent at idle, and quite quiet at regular otherwise. Yet, it will go insanely fast.
Quiet is sexy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons
My VW GTI (aka Audi A3) has a "sound box" which makes a delightful little growl when you step on the gas. Coupled with a muffler that puts out a "pummp pummp" sound - it is all cool. VW didn't hide it - it is advertised albeit small print feature. Making my little 0-60 runs and hearing the deep tone change with each tap of the paddle-shifter, it just gives a little twinge of excitement in the lower region of the anatomy.
What is driving a car? I say the experience and exhilaration. Sure some of these features are like spinning wheel-caps - but they add to the fun. Its the feeling.
The performance geeks remove this box ( Y-delete) because it affects throttle response. But for us old people who bomb through the mountain pass with the windows open and Red Barchetta playing from the stereo - I'm after the surreal.
Just as long as it doesn't sound fake :-P
I always associated loud engine noise as straining, and pushing an engine hard. It makes me feel like the vehicle is under-powered. A powerful engine should move it's vehicle with seemingly minimal effort.
1D10T5 ERROR
I believe BMW was actually the first to pump completely fake engine nosies (electronically created not just amplified) through the stereo quite a while back, and I think nearly all their models do that now. Its one of the bigger reasons I wouldn't ever buy a BMW, and apparently now you can add Ford to that list.
That said, where do you stop in being critical? Nearly all sports car makers invest a LOT of money on tuning exahusts to get the sound they want, even possibly at the cost of some performance. I guess at least if its coming out the exhuast its orignally an actual engine noise, and that people outside the car can hear too.
It wasn't meant to be frightening, it just turned out that way.
http://mysite.du.edu/~treddell...
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
Cars already have sensors and safety packages. These are being improved all the time. In 10 years, the only way to run over someone is with your bike.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
They moved in two years ago with a ancient Ford Focus "Fart Machine", always a pleasure to listen to that thing rev at 6:00AM as they left for Walmart...
I was so happy a year later when they got a new 4 cylinder VW that was quiet and unobtrusive. Then a couple months ago at 6:00AM, "Fart Machine V2.0" started in. Why would you ruin a perfectly good new factory exhaust system to make it sound like crap?
I have that too. The radio in my 1995 Subaru sounds like a jet engine in tune with the engine revs. It's awesome.
0x or or snor perron?!
This is the most stupid feature that i ever heard of. Seriously, I've always thought that the car noises were unavoidable, but this gives me the impression that the car manufacturers see us like a Jersey Shore morons.
E.g., http://www.theautochannel.com/...
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
link
I reached my (1st) goal of getting into the 14's in the quarter mile, last year. I feel that any car running in the 14 seconds is faster than most cars on the road, but this speed stuff is like a drug. You always think of some little thing to make it a little faster. If a 14 second mini van will beat most of the cars on the road, a 12 second Mini Van mini van will beat almost all the cars on the road!
We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.
-- Anais Nin
has been going on for ages.
Hollywood produced fake noises for the US Army in WWII to fool the Germans.
Bolt, Beranek and Newman (BBN), the famed audio consulting company used to listen to the JFK assassination tapes, worked with plenty of companies in the 60's & 70's to improve the noise their products made.
Literature for motorheads :-)
Free from Smashwords.
Full disclaimer, I'm the author.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
Why not just design a better exhaust system or adopt designs that allow the car to 'rumble' naturally?'
I mean if I can go down to my local weld-a-thing-for-me crafty pal and have him design a muffler that results in my girlfriends 5cyl VW rabbit having a deep rumble like a flat 4 subaru than surely Ford can come up with an exhaust system that is both efficient and nice sounding without the use of speakers?
Side note: On a purely electric car this makes sense, and only if the 'fake engine noise' goes on the outside, its a safety feature.
Side side note: Even then, does it have to be a rumble? I don't expect a Tesla to rumble. Can I choose? What if I want my safety sound to be a bubble machine noise?
If you look at this demo of the QNX Kia Soul at CES 2014 starting at about 1:20 they demonstrate the acoustic shaping properties of QNX Car 2.0. From dampening exterior noise to engine sound "enhancement". They demo the Soul revving but sounding like a Dodge Challenger.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
All the linked articles are dated Sept 2014. old news.
People doing stuff like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
So, I guess you could say that Ford is the Milli Vanilli of cars?
They can take my LifeAlert pendant when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
Electrics and hybrids simply require less service. They die less often, they require less parts and can last longer between servicing. All this means the supply and service chain for automotive industry will take a big hit, and the non-replacement problem will impact the auto manufacturers to lose sales as well.
Solution (from their point of view): Remove one of the biggest selling points of electric motors: zero noise. Force the limitations (i.e., noisy) of gas-only cars onto the nascent electric industry. Create a hubbub about it and make it an issue even if the opposite may be true (people generally like quieter cars).
The Auto industry isn't going to go quietly like the HDD industry did when SSDs appeared (like SSDs, electric-motor vehicles are quieter, faster and have lower failure rates) - they plan on fighting tooth and nail to keep their profits up even if it takes buying legislation.
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
I always wanted a Yugo that sounds like it has a V10
Table-ized A.I.
There are two types of faking it that are currently used, as outlined in the summary.
Noise pipes, that take engine noise through a hollow pipe into the interior of the car are quite different to playing a synthetic soundtrack through the car's speakers. Modern cars have significantly more noise insulation than older vehicles, so cutting through some of this insulation so that the real engine noise can reach the cabin isn't necessarily cheating. You need an engine that sounds good to begin with here and you're hearing the actual sounds that the engine is making.
Having an engine that makes unpleasant sounds, or is too quiet, and supplementing this with a soundtrack played through the car's speakers - well, it may sound really good inside the car, but outside the car, you're not going to be hearing much of note...
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
If you want engine noise, don't fake it. Refurbish a classic car.
I've had seen many people standing right besides a running Mazda and not hearing it. I never got why so many other (french/german) cars made such a noise, when Mazda proved it could run perfectly silent stationary. But now i understand.. i understood that manufacturers designed sound, but i never imagined them adding noise. I prefer the silent efficient engine. Even a huge steamengine can run nearly silent, as most did, its craftmenship.
So the auto manufacturers have been intentionally making their cars annoying to the people who don't own those cars? Screw them. I want cars and trucks to be as close to silent as possible. Cars already create far too much noise pollution. Perhaps auto manufacturers to just pipe the sounds inside the car for those owners who desire that, while leaving the rest of us in a more peaceful world?
This is not entirely new. More than thirty years ago, STAX headphones, considered some of the best headphones even by today's standards, were commissioned by Mercedes to make a high-output version to help them better reproduce and understand car sounds.
Cars have become both quieter and more powerful, as well as idiot proof- I kind of prefer the days where one had to work at it to drive well.
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
I say leave the sound faking off the new cars.. If you want an old mustang /w that rumbling sound, then get an old mustang. New cars really are different in that they're efficient, clean, and eco-friendly. Why hide that? A smooth sound, or none at all, should be a badge of honor.
Also, consider how much more housing would be available if freeways didn't make noise (or less anyway), which annoys me almost as much as leaf blowers - jeez, I sure hope we can invent silencers for these.
The only argument I can see for fake noise in cars, is so that pedestrians know you're coming. But many hybrid cars are quite already, so people are already learning to avoid them by using their eyes. Besides, cars will soon be detecting *us* better with active sensing, which is better than counting on the pedestrians to stay out of the way.
The feeling of old cars can continue - as a restoration, or in movies, music - just as our feeling for land-line phones, or black & white TVs, or horse drawn carriages. Just realize that power of the future will be silent, subtle, efficient, and electronic or atomic.
This is the automotive equivalent of stuffing things into your codpiece to give the illusion that you have, shall we say, more to offer...
On the other hand, I sometimes miss my 1966 Cadillac -- standing next to it one could not tell that it was running. But when one stomped on it the 429 cubes could really haul that 2.5 tons of comfort down the road. This fakery is depressing.
As long as it has an "off" switch, they can do what they want.
I actually like my cars to be quiet, one of the reasons I like driving BMWs and am very interested in electric cars.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
When approaching a four way or blind intersection in a non-horse driven vehicle you must stop 100 ft from the intersection and discharge a firearm into the air to warn horse traffic.
http://www.usattorneylegalserv...
See "Speed of the Cheetah, Roar of the Lion" (fully excerpted on Google Books). I'm not sure who the author is. I originally heard it on read on the radio.
Posting AC because this comment is too silly even for me!
Maybe people should buy speakers for their penis to make it sound like a V12 engine roaring!
They will be with us for a while, but then they will go away as we get used to the sound of smaller engines. Some of the small engines actually sound really great, and once we get used to that then people will stop complaining that they don't sound like a V8.
Some automakers are including noise pipes that run through the firewall and carry engine noise into the cabin, that way you can actually hear your little four banger.
Personally, I don't want to hear anything that isn't there. Fake engine noises are for fake cars for fake people.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I will always remember the first time a saw a wooden Riva speedboat with a V8 engine passing me by on full speed. The sound was just amazing. To give you an impression (youtube.com)
Ford has been doing this for years on the Focus ST model. They include a "sound symposer box". They capture internal engine oscillations and pipe them through the firewall to the cabin (where the box is) under heavy throttle.
i want my electric car to play a custom mp3, so i could drive around all day with my car sounding like this.
A Ferrari with a Nyan-cat paint job and "PURRARI" vanity plates. :-)
I haven't laughed that hard at least... oh... at least this week.
Thank you
Car companies have worked for years to deaden car interiors to block out engine and road noise, This is mostly because for a lot of people, engine noise is just noise, and they would rather not hear it. The amount of deadening applied under the hood, on the firewall, on the floor, on body panels, is stagerring, and then tere are folks who fit even more deadening (I'm not talking the audiophile type - just people who want a quiet car) like rubber undercoatings to reduce road noise Then they realize that this has turned off another demographic that likes to hear this noise. They decide that playing the sound back through speakers (there have been mechanical approaches as well ) was the cheapest option. This way, you could have a car that was quiet most of the time, but could get loud if you wanted it to. Honestly I don't see a problem here. The growl of an engine is just an indicator of its performance . If you designed an intake/exhaust system just to sound good, how is it different from an electronic system which does that ?
Baloney\. Only a very few Mustangs could be considered muscle cars. They, like Camaros, are pony cars where most had inline sixes and small displacement V8s.
I've never faked an engine noise but back in 1970s I replaced the horn from my 1971 Toyota with a horn from a Chevy, Toyota horn was a measly bleat-bleat where the GM product had more ommf to get people's attention. I see the tagline referencing a Mazda. I also remembered in that decade a friend had a rotary engine Mazda and it was a screamer. This was back in the days when small cars were small powered but with his Mazda he routinely accelerated ahead of those big American cars. But maintenance was a nightmare.
If going to fake engine noises, have a selection of vehicles from quiet Telsas to way-too-loud-for-city-streets Formula One racers. Now that would be fun to have.
mfwright@batnet.com
I want my fake engine noise to sound like a Jetson's flying car.
Don't try to out wierd me, three-eyes. I get stranger things than you, free with my breakfast cereal. --Zaphod Beeblebr
It sounds like crap. nobody wants to buy a Mustang or a F150 that sounds like a honda civic.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Just imagine the same discussion 100 years ago: "But real horse enthusiasts think that the smell of horse manure is an integral part of the 'horse experience' and the attempts to emulate it by piling bullshit on the passenger seat are inferior to having a real live horse attached to your car".
Get over it. Engine noise is a noxious emission, sign of imperfect design.
I think he is suggesting that the bar for legal is too high and should be lowered.
Also, I think you're a racist old fuck. How is "rap shit" music at 1200dB any worse than your 455 also blaring at 1200dB? I've heard this argument time and time again, and it's usually an old racist white guy bitching about the thugs. I'm willing to bet that I'm not wrong this time either....
This is Evo at work. The animal that cannot hear it coming, was not fit to spawn, and therefore by eliminating it, we have strengthened the herd. Not what you want to hear, I know ;)
Mr Know-it-all knows nothing. News at 11. If you are going a set speed then you AREN'T GOING TO SHIFT.....dumbass
In one post you talk about how awesome a Tesla is and how you'd race it against anything. Yet now you're SHITting on electric cars and their owners. I see, like myself, that you don't actually give a fuck about whatever we're talking about. You're flip flopping and playing devils advocate for the sole purpose of entertaining yourself. That practice is known as Trolling.
MY Nissan LEAF HAD a speaker mounted in the driver-side front wheel well which used to make noise.....
Well if you want to be all hyperbolic about it, if you're blind and I'd even go so far as to include being deaf, then maybe you should just keep your ass at home so you won't get hit by things you can't see or hear. See how both of our positions are ridiculous?
The GT Mustang still rocks the V8. That Ecoboost 4 banger is only in the base model. Don't get me wrong, the Ecoboost IS fast, but it is no V8.
IIRC that was a plot point in _The Marching Morons_ by C.M.Kornbluth.
"It's terrific!" Barlow yelled back. "It's-" He was shut up as the car pulled
out from the bay into the road with a great voo-ooo-ooom! A gale roared past
Barlow's head, though the windows seemed to be closed; the impression of
speed was terrific. He located the speedometer on the dashboard and saw it
climb past 90, 100, 150, 200.
http://mysite.du.edu/~treddell/3780/Kornbluth_The-Marching-Morons.pdf
Hasn't it been common to fake the engine sound to some extent for decades? I mean, you've long been able to buy 'tune sets' or whatever they are called, with big, trompet exhausts - the only purpuse of which is to make the engine sound louder. I've always felt vaguely amused when I saw them - this seems very indicative of the kind vain person you refer to as 'a peacock', no doubt in reference to the size of his manhood.
If manufacturers such as Ford are faking cylinders, then it shouldn't be surprising to see them faking engine notes. They're trying to please environmentalists by cutting down the engine; they're using a turbocharger and audio system in an dishonest attempt to please the customer. When said customer actually tries to *use* the engine, they only see how it can't match their expectations.
It might cut it for the granola-eating, Aspen-attending environmentalist with deep pockets, for they can buy whatever they please. On the other hand, the majority of us really don't have much choice in the matter. Perhaps if the environmentalists were kicked out of auto design and CAFE was abolished, we wouldn't have to wonder if our engine's faking it.
When pressing the pedal, a full-displacement engine should be the sole source of engine noise - not a tuned speaker nor a turbocharger.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
We need stricter Noise Polution laws.
Everytime a baby is scared over a loud engine or truck breaking, it is bad.
Think of the children!
All the better for after market products, want that great engine sound, simply change the exhaust.
I can imagine not everybody wants the noise, and silent after market exhaust are non-existant(?), so now you have a choice.
The same concept the guys tried to pitch in the move Dilemma in 2011
"The two have recently been given an opportunity to pitch an eco friendly car to Dodge."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dilemma
I know some people like it... including those morons that screw up their mufflers so their cars sound broken.
But look at it this way, everything your car does that is not directed towards moving it forward... is wasted energy.
The heat that comes off the hood or out of the back pipe is wasted energy. Anything above ambient temperature is energy your engine couldn't reclaim from the burning of the gas.
The sound... ANY sound that the engine makes is wasted energy. A perfect engine would be silent. That noise is the sound of inefficiency.
I know, some people like the noise. I do too. Mostly because it sounds powerful and is sort of nostalgic. However, it is wasted energy. That means less power. Less fuel efficiency.
I'd rather have the power and the fuel efficiency then the noise. And for those that really want the noise... put a microphone in the engine, wire it to the stereo, and then let people turn the amplified engine noise on or off.
A perfect engine would consume all energy from its fuel source. 100 percent conversion. And it would waste NONE of it on noises of any kind unless the purpose of the engine was to make noise. Unless you're driving an air raid siren... that is probably not the point.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
I don't need the fake engine noise, I would just love for them to get rid if the road noise. So many new cars sound like you are in a wind tunnel at interstate speed.
Ah, more Chevron sponsored FUD raises its head. It's been rather thoroughly debunked... by blind people.
News from the blind: THEY CAN HEAR YOUR CAR TIRES AND HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH ELECTRIC CARS.
The only people at risk from quiet cars are sighted people, particularly those who are slightly hard of hearing. Deaf people are very alert, visually, and blind people can hear inverters sing and pebbles popping out from under tires with far greater acuity than a sighted person. But sighted people blunder about without paying much attention to their surroundings, ignoring the warning noises that all modern production hybrids and electrics make from speakers behind the grille, and they get hit by quiet gas cars and hybrids and electrics in situations where no blind or deaf person ever would.
Since we're on the subject of FUD spread by oil companies, it's also not true that rescue workers will not save people in electric cars. Firemen and paramedics are insulted by the idea, in fact, and are pissed off at Chevron's ad agency for planting that rumor in the news. In reality a gas tank contains far more potential energy than a battery, and can release it quicker, and rescue workers are completely aware of this. They didn't sign up to be safe, they signed up to risk themselves to save others. They aren't wusses afraid of being shocked, and they know how to avoid the large orange wires because saving people is what they do.
Electrics are safer than hybrids, and hybrids are safer than 90% of ICE cars, because they are built to a far higher standard. They have to be, in order to compete with much cheaper gas cars. That's Elon Musk's great insight, you know - build a car that's fundamentally better than the competition.
An awful lot of drivers get a thrill from a burbling or roaring engine note. I don't particularly see the need for its constant presence. I've got used to travelling whisper quietly now. However, when driving my SLS AMG Electric Drive, I do select various synthesised engine/exhaust notes from the digital library. So, for example, when cruising past a school at constant (and relatively low) velocity, I will "rev the engine" for the kids (who are already pointing at the bright fluorescent yellow car), selecting say "Merlin V12" or "SR71B J58". They love it, so why not? Thankfully, I've also got some Barry White Love Unlimited Orchestra available to be "piped" whenever there are some hot chicks by the side of the road...
But I really like what Mini, Jag and some others (lambo?) are doing -- they replicate the *pop* you sometimes got out of hi-strung carburetted cars when you let up on the gas. This pop was made by a bit of unburnt gas going into the pipes when the throttle plates would snap shut.
The modern version just randomly squirts a bit of gas into the exhaust to make the pop artificially when you let up the gas. And I'm totally cool with this. In my mini it's selectable by sport mode. I love this feature. It reminds me of old sports cars.
Mine's a polite little pop or two. The F-Type jag sounds like a machinegun, and the Aventador I heard the other day had so many pops on upshift that it could've been confused with an mg-42.
All artificial, but not piped in through the stereo. A joy to hear in a garage or a tunnel.
Digital pianos do this too -- they replicate (or for lesser pianos, sample) artifacts of real pianos. Because people found out that a perfectly tuned piano with no mechanical noises is boring.
The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.
Fun fact: the study methodology was deeply flawed, because there was no allowance for the fact that the hybrid/electric cars are primarily urban and sub-urban vehicles, while the population of vehicles they compared it to included plenty of rural drivers. There was also no correction for the differing proportions of private .vs. commercial vehicles, they just used (arbitrarily chosen) vehicle models, comparing the Corolla to the Prius for example. The Prius is used by urban taxi drivers, the Corolla isn't. The Corolla is common in rural settings where bicyclists are rare, the Prius isn't.
Unsurprisingly, there are more pedestrian/cyclist collisions in urban and suburban environments... in fact, about 37% more ped collisions and a whopping 66% more cycle collisions! How about that!
Despite these obvious problems with the study, all production electric and hybrid cars now have noisemakers. The Leaf and the Prius are both louder, moving at low speeds, than the quietest gas cars. My Honda mini-van cannot be heard over the sound of my Leaf at anything under 35 mph unless you are totally hammering the gas on the Odyssey.
JUNK SCIENCE.
Once I opened up the airbox and got a properly designed full exhaust on it, it had a pretty throaty purr. Not the syncopated thrum of a V, still the flat-scream of a 4, but satisfyingly deep and lush. Guy I knew put a turbo on his, same engine, same exhaust from the cat back actually, sounded like a muffled bass kazoo.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
My Audi S5 makes an adorable sound when it changes gear. It's the result of a device that spits gas on the exhaust for that exact purpose. I must say I dont care if it's fake - I always have a (fake) orgasm when I hear it. Here's Top Gear UK's take on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
The people want the sound. Ford follows the mandates and gives customers what they want.
Sounds like Ford is doing the best it can under the rules it is forced to follow.
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
In the U.S. you'll find that most of the cars that don't have a tachometer are the standards. I guess they figure you only want a standard if you can't afford the automatic. The standards are the lower end cars that they leave the tach off to save money. My Isuzu Rodeo doesn't have one. I do, however, have a pretty loud 4-cylinder engine. I still manage to shift while ignoring the idiot light.
Ops, I shuld have usd the prevuwe but in.
Fighter planes have transmitters that allow friendly pilots to recognize them as friends, so they don't accidently shoot them down [the IFF, identification, friend or foe from WWII]
Now cars should transmit silent ID that others can detect to avoid collisions and other useful things, like the registration and perhaps the drivers name.
Everyone does realize that acoustic fiddling has been a mainstay of the auto industry for far longer right? Resonance chambers in intake and exhaust tracts anyone? Heck even the Porsche carrera GT had an entire behind the scenes video dedicated to how they tuned the exhaust (that car has such a surreal sound!).
Honestly the intake tract is what it seems like what most people are bitching about, not the exhaust since that's the noise that gets out when you hit it vs exhaust which is all the time. Snag an axle-back and call it a day.
Pretty sure this movie (The Dilemma) covered this base pretty well, about 4 years ago. Did no one catch that it could have conceivably been a reality?
The sound is not enough a true muscle car or truck with power is something you can feel not just hear.
So if I can't feel it its not real
It's not just engine noise that is faked - - - apparently some car manufacturers modify the power steering to make it more retro. This modification makes feedback from the road to the steering wheel. It causes the steering wheel to jerk around - not much just some
Dick
Two of my first cars were an BMW Midget, and an MGB. Both had exhaust notes I liked when I first bought them, but it was not long before I realized it was much like having a broken stereo, and all I could listen to-- and was forced to hear even if I didn't want it-- was my very favorite Beatles tune. And, if I wanted to listen to Bob Dylan or The Carpenters, I had to turn up the volume just so I, could hear it over the sound of my otherwise Lennon favorite. It would eventually become unbearable. An engine exhaust-- ANY engine exhaust, even from the most expensive Ferrari, Lamborghini, or Alfa Romeo-- is nothing more than a dirt - simple tune with no surprises, no chord changes or complexities as you have in music, yet we can somehow be lulled into believing there is something desirable about it even though it does little more than make you turn up your volume just so you can hear your radio over the noise, and it slowly contributes not only to your own hearing loss, but those around you that have no choice. I PARTICULARLY hate loud motorcycle exhausts, and even MORE particularly Harleysville that have short, straight pipes that you can hear blocks away. Whenever I hear them, I fantasize of the Axel Foley trick of cramming a banana deep inside the, pipe so that the rider, when he returns to his bike, does not figure out the problem until after his machine has gotten a time-consuming, expensive tow to the repair shop. As for your solution for blind pedestrians, you sound like the dolt whose only tool is a hammer, and so all problems begin to look like nails. The last thing I want is more noise when it's not necessary, forcing EVERY ONE to endure more cacophony even when there are no disabled people around. A much more reasonable solution would be to mandate fifty cents worth of electronics to be added to all new cars, including your beloved ICE- powered dinosaurs, which interact intelligently not only with every deaf pedestrian, but every other child, pet or other creature that is fitted with an inexpensive, mass - produced transponder that will warn ONLY of approaching traffic, and not of vehicles moving away and therefore not a hazard. They could warn of direction, speed, and proximity, even when there is other noise that can be distracting. One of the curiosities of human hearing is that when someone has constantly got their sound system amped to the max so that their ears feel full and ring for hours after removing their ear buds, or after their hearing has already been grossly, damaged by work or other noise, they will get defensive and insist their hearing is just fine, even though you can hear their rap lyrics from their ear buds from across the room. Personally, I treasure my hearing and want to protect it. So, more noise? No thank you. I'd rather listen to the subtleties of the tunes I choose to play on my sound system, without fighting to hear it over your he-man exhaust.
At my height, the steering wheel blocks out half the dashboard. And, no, I can't fix this problem with a phone book (even if such a thing was still available).
My problem is that I'm forced to recline to a halfway recumbent position to keep from mashing my head into the ceiling.
In many vehicles I end up reclined so far back that I can barely reach the steering wheel. And, no, this is not because I have short arms. It's because the rear passenger window has now entered my peripheral vision. If this strikes you as strange, then I suspect it's been a long while since you spent any quality time with sin/cosine. (I have a wine bottle a mere 2" too tall for one of my cupboard shelves. If I tilt it to 45 degrees it fits just fine.)
So then I have to crank the seat forward until my knees are striking the front dashboard. Strangely, I don't find this uncomfortable for my legs, unless I wish to move them.
My peripheral vision is now roughly oriented toward the driver's seat-belt pulley, and my eye level is horizontal to the tint line on the windscreen. By the time I get the steering adjusted to a comfortable position, it's almost a certainty that half the dashboard is occluded by the top half of the steering wheel.
I can't see stop lights, either, if I'm first to the light and I've pulled up to the stop line, unless I use the old ear-to-shoulder trick—or I spot some other aspect of the intersection control synchronized to the light I'm waiting on.
What look like large vehicles from the outside are usually just as bad. Sure, the cabin height is increased, but usually they take most of it away with a higher seat height (to better accommodate all those fancy seat motors whose very existence makes the seating position you most desire impossible to achieve).
You should book a week sometime in the Hobbit Hotel. It will do wonders for your imagination concerning the circumstances that others face. Probably you should do this before participating in the design of any mechanical thing to be used by anyone other than a jet fighter pilot (whose physiques are carefully restricted to the design environment).
The reality is that most "loud" muscle cars are liked by men because we women truly love them...and this just backs up the notion that women can empathize with another who has to fake things...:)
Since they're faking it to appeal to nostalgia why not make the sound of a gallopping horse? I wonder how long that bullshit will go on when engines are close to or completely silent.
"The rockets aren't rockets. They're turbojets — good turbojets, but the fancy shell around them makes for a bad drag. The automobiles have a top speed of one hundred kilometers per hour — a kilometer is, if I recall my paleolinguistics, three-fifths of a mile — and the speedometers are all rigged accordingly so the drivers will think they're going two hundred and fifty...."
http://mysite.du.edu/~treddell/3780/Kornbluth_The-Marching-Morons.pdf