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MacBook Pro (2016) Disappointment Pushes Some Apple Loyalists To Ubuntu Linux (betanews.com)
Linux distributions have emerged as one of the beneficiaries in the aftermath of the MacBook Pros launch. Many people aren't pleased with the offering and prices of Apple's three new laptops and some of them are resorting to Linux-powered laptops. From a report on BetaNews: Immediately after the Apple Keynote, famed Ubuntu laptop and desktop seller, System76, saw a huge jump in traffic from people looking to buy its machines. The traffic was so intense, that it needed to upgrade servers to keep up, it said. "We experienced much more traffic than we had prepared for, the website didn't go hard down but experienced slowness. We had to scale up to return to normal. It was a pretty big surge, I don't have the details in front of me at the moment but I've not really heard of anything like this before. People being so underwhelmed by a product that immediately following a new product release they actively seek out competitor's products," says Ryan Sipes, Community Manager, System76. I decided to compare specifications and pricing on my own, so I headed to both Apple.com and System76.com to compare. Apple's new 15-inch MacBook Pro starts at $2,400. This machine has a Quad-core Sklyake i7, maxes out at 16GB of RAM, has an NVMe 256GB SSD, and a Radeon Pro 450 with a paltry 2GB memory. Alternatively, I headed to System76 and configured its 15-inch Oryx Pro. I closely matched the MacBook Pro specs, with a Quad-core Sklyake i7 and NVMe 256GB SSD. Instead of 16GB of RAM as found on the Apple, I configured with 32GB (you can go up to 64GB if needed). By default, it comes with a 6GB Nvidia GTX 1060. The price? Less than $2,000! In other words, the System76 machine with much better specs is less expensive than Apple's.
The summary sounds like an obvious plug for system76. I'm not saying it's bad, because what the summary says, is in fact true. I've compared them myself. I even have a System76 desktop and am pleased with it. However, and advertisement disguised as an article is still and advertisement.
Linux is fine and all but it is *still* missing a number of high end professional level programs in a number of fields. Until that changes (and it hasn't in how many years now?), Linux on the Laptop will be a fairly niche product. If it meets your requirements that's great. You get lots of options including MacBooks in their limited incantations.
But no Adobe, Autodesk, Maya etc.
Life's a bitch. Then you vote.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
I'll just pop on over to System76, grab a machine, and install the Adobe suite that's necessary for doing business.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
I recently switched from my aging MacBook Pro to a 17" HP Envy running Windows 7, because HP at least hasn't removed all the useful ports, and the older OS will run happily without a cloud. Oh, and it can run all that engineering software I need to do my work.
The determined Real Programmer can write Fortran programs in any language.
Yeah - being able to buy an equivalently or better specced machine then a MacBook Prop for less money has always been an option - that has not stopped people from buying MacBooks in the past, so I fail to see the news here. Now, I agree that the new MacBook Pros are a bit disappointing, and that there might be other laptops which compete very well. But the laptop mentioned in this slashvertisement fails to impress.
It's just exhausting to read stuff like this.
Let's just take this right to the opposite end of the spectrum and compare the new macbook to a nicely finished brick of aluminum, then talk about how I can get this brick of aluminum for a fraction of the price. But let's not talk about system components... we're trying to compare bricks of aluminum here for god sakes
Who is the genius at Apple that thought of making the Power Button and Touch ID the same? It's comedic. Give that guy his own show on Comedy Central. How many people will inadvertently shut off their Mac?
They will need a software fix. But can they make it work properly when stuff is frozen?
I agree - most of these comparisons miss the fact that the Retina display is sooo much better for the vast majority of things that most Linux users do with computers. Text-mode consoles and development are infinitely easier with high-dpi text; I've literally more than doubled the amount of time I can use a computer in a day without developing a headache by using higher-quality displays, and Linux support for these is a crapshoot at best. They aren't even available from system76, and if you find a vendor that does have them on Linux-compatible hardware, you're setting yourself up for dealing with difficult refresh rates, visual glitches, and apps that don't scale accurately.
I agree that these new Macs are overpriced for what you get, but to compare with anything that doesn't have a 200+ dpi display is _not_ a fair comparison.
When Apple stopped making their 17" laptops I jumped to Dell.
My current machine is a M6700 with a 3940XM, 32GB of RAM, 4 hard drives, 2 wifi cards, IEEE1394, 5x USB, eSata, Display Port, VGA, and HDMI. I've tested it with Windows, Linux and BSD and all work just fine.
Then again it's the antithesis of what most Apple laptops are, the battery life sucks but it's a mobile workstation and I need that.
With all those specs, new, it cost ~$5k.
Pushes Some Apple Loyalists To Ubuntu Linux
I would think that some will actually be very few. I'm a Linux fan, but I think it will only attract the very few technically aware MacBook users. Though getting better, Linux is does not match the "everything works" Apple philosophy, i.e. you buy a graphics tablet or whatever, plug it in and all your apps will work with it straight off.
So I've been a Linux user since 1994, and it's been my primary development environment, and provided me a job, for 20+ years now, and for that I'm very thankful. I love developing on Linux.
That being said, I owned a succession of Linux laptops that never worked entirely correctly before I got my retina macbook pro in 2012. I'd say 25% of system updates to my Linux distro would break something, maybe a wireless driver would get flaky, maybe X11 would crap out in some new or unusual way, maybe the battery life would be bad because some kind of battery optimization would stop working. There were ALWAYS problems, it was like living with a finicky collector's automobile that you're spending as much time tinkering with to keep it running as you are actually driving it. A major source of problems with Linux was always sleep and hibernate modes, which were clunky to engage, slow to suspend and resume, and, if they worked, almost always had caveats (I don't know how many scripts I wrote that would switch to a virtual console away from X before suspend and then back again after resume, because X would so often just die if you suspended while it controlled the display).
Maybe things have improved, but I doubt it. On the other hand, this 2012 macbook pro has been a complete pleasure to use. EVERYTHING works correctly, I have never had a single problem of any kind with it. Tons of little details all work seamlessly together. I can close the lid and the thing sleeps, open it, and it wakes up. Never had a graphics problem or a driver problem of any kind.
Of course I know this is because the deck is stacked in favor of Apple, who own the entire stack from hardware through operating system and up through most software. But I don't care. Because it just works, and works so well.
That being said, I am very disappointed with the newest iteration of the macbook pro and I don't think I'll be buying one despite having assumed that I would, leading up to the actual announcement. I will just chug along with this 2012 rMBP. I will NOT switch back to Linux. I'll take a correctly functioning slower and older laptop over a fast and new machine filled with quirks and bugs.
"We experienced much more traffic than we had prepared for, the website didn't go hard down but experienced slowness." And now it gets posted to Slashdot? Way to go!
Tech companies are out of touch. Even $2,000 is too much for a laptop in 2017. Ridiculous.
This is nothing more than an infomercial for system 76 hardware. There's not a single mention of a Mac user considering trying Linux instead of OS X.
Reusing an old slogan, it does work however just without the fanfare.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
it needed to upgrade servers to keep up
500 Internal Server Error. Apparently not enough of an upgrade. Hopefully they are better at building computers than they are at running websites. =)
System76 laptops sound all fine and good, they're no more ugly than the rest of the non-Mac world....
They fail to offer the one thing I need for a computer to actually be functional for me - Run macOS. (legally, without fighting drivers and hacking kexts)
I would venture to guess that the majority of Mac owners do not fall under the category of power users, where they would be inclined to experiment with a much less user/noob friendly platform as Linux is vs OS X. If anything they would consider Windows 10, which based on the posts at MacRumors seems to be what's happening, esp after Microsoft's recent Surface product announcements.
I doubt they were really so deluged with orders they had to bring new servers online after the MBP launch, but they certainly need them now that they got such a lovely fluff piece on Slashdot! I've been an Apple user for 27 years, and I'm less happy with them now than ever because they are going too far in the consumer market with the computers. But their market and System76 has a tiny overlap. But kudos to System76 for getting this marketing published on Slashdot!
these comparisons miss the fact that the Retina display is sooo much better for the vast majority of things that most Linux users do with computers. Text-mode consoles and development are infinitely easier with high-dpi text; I've literally more than doubled the amount of time I can use a computer in a day without developing a headache by using higher-quality displays
I have zero problems with my 1080 display. The text looks fine and is not blurry. I do not get headaches and I'm on the computer pretty much all day. If I wanted to see an individual pixel, I'd have to get out a magnifying glass. And this is on a 23" desktop monitor, so the DPI has to be much lower compared to a 15" laptop at 1080.
I suspect most people are drooling over resolution numbers and not actual performance. That's not to say that you aren't helped by it, but my guess is you're in the minority, because I really don't hear about getting headaches as a common complaint from computer users.
If all you wanted was to run someone's flavor of Linux, there are plenty of non-Apple hardware options better and/or cheaper right down to a Chromebook, or you just get a pre-2014 vintage Macbook. I don't think if you really needed to run Linux and only a Linux that a nearly $2.5k Macbook Pro was the first consideration, especially if you can't swap the memory/storage/battery in it.
The conclusions of this article make no sense outside of the context of an advertorial.
We have Unity!
Depending on which side of the religious divide you occupy, people buy Apple because:
You've always been able to get more performance for less money, and yet they still sell. So what's the news here?
An imperfect plan executed violently is far superior to a perfect plan. -- George Patton
Not saying this to be crass, but do people actually utilize laptops (laptop screens) for development purposes? I've tried, it sucks. I mean it's fine in a pinch, but there is no way I'd use a 15" laptop screen for any extended period of time, I don't care how "pretty" it is. I currently carry a SP4. The high DPI display sure looks nice, but it still sucks to do any real work on without being hooked up to two 24" external monitors.
I'd be more curious about any bump in upgrades for existing MacBooks.
My 2012-era MacBook Air and MacBook Pro both work fine, save for the battery in the Air and the drives in both. I was waiting to see if it'd be worth getting a new one or just spending the money on upgrades. Verdict? Upgrades for the win. Rather than spending $3-4k on new computers (and a few hundred more on all the adapters I'd need to get my peripherals working), I'll spend around $600 and have both running fine for the next few years.
I wonder how many other people reached the same conclusion...
How Apple missed this opportunity for all of us to refresh our laptops boggles the mind. Maybe they just feel that they have enough money in the bank and keeping laptops out of landfills was their goal?
-Chris
Immediately after the Apple Keynote, famed Ubuntu laptop and desktop seller, System76, saw a huge jump in traffic from people looking to buy its machines.
Pfft. Idiots. Good luck trying to compete when you're spending all your time escaping out of applications and powering off the machine with errant key presses and picking your emojis from a list like a bunch of animals.
Grow up and get serious, you dinosaurs.
Assume that he pays himself $10/hr. OS X only needs to save him 50 hours over the course of owning it for him to break even.
Assume that he pays himself $50/hr. OS X only needs to same him 10 hours over the course of owning it for him to break even.
Why do people always assume their time is free?
Don't forget the magic pixie dust they sprinkle in every build. That's gotta be worth a lot, right?
Me too. I bought my 13.3 laptop used, and it has a QHD screen, switched it to 1080p and it looks the same, even up close. No headaches either. Battery lasts much longer as well.
"Science is the power of man"
You can get a Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition with a 3200x1800 display (276 dpi), Intel HD graphics, and i7-7500U with 16 GB of DDR3 @ 1866MHz and a 512 GB PCIE SSD for $1800 and up. It ships with Ubuntu 16.04 LTS and most of the devices should be supported under *BSD as well.
I have looked, found nowhere the same form factor as 13" macbook pro. Only big ugly laptop to be found there. I'd go with the Dell XPS 13" Developer edition that is about the same price range as the macbook.
Salut a toi EX Punk anarchiste devenu nouveau mouton conformiste...
I would love to buy to equivalent machine, not from HP, Lenovo. IBM, Dell and probably not from Samsung. The cherry on the cake would be not a non-Intel architecture.
Wait- you're saying that Apple stuff costs more than competing products? Color me shocked!
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Question: how old are you? :). I suspect there are more people with my issues than you give me credit for, although my point continues to be: the $2k for a system76 computer is not apples-to-apples to the $2400 MBP, and that the high-dpi screen, along with the software care that has gone into making it usable and functional across a wide variety of applications and actual "apparent" resolutions is quite valuable.
"the System76 machine with much better specs is less expensive than Apple's"
You could say this about all Apple computers since the day they started making them. For professionals, there is no compelling reason to choose Apple.
Kriston
I can't believe this is on the front page. This is the oldest Apple flamewar ever.
I agree, the new MBP is . . . terrible. But the idea that this Oryx "closely matches" the MBP is ridiculous beyond the CPU. They're wildly different. Apologies, but . . . apples and oranges.
The Oryx:
- is made of plastic
- weighs about 40% more
- has a much lower resolution screen
- lacks that touch bar and expensive ARM hardware (which granted, pretty much no one, including me, wants)
- lacks any thunderbolt, let alone two separate thunderbolt 3 controllers (the big "pro" feature in the new MBP)
- has a smaller battery and way more power hungry components
- an SSD that I'm pretty sure is nowhere near as fast
- doesn't run OS X
These are the things that jack up the price of the MBP. Whether or not they're a sensible cost proposition is very different from "see, practically the same." Apple screwed up and inflated the price with things people don't want.
It's cool that System76 is getting a lot more attention. I think I'm about to buy a Puri.sm laptop, the disappointing new MBP put me over. But come on, they are not the same. One might make a lot more sense to a lot of people, but the "see I built the same thing for way less money" victory dance is just tired, and embarrassing for the front page of a site that's supposed to have editors.
It's a dual core hyperthreaded.
http://saveie6.com/
If you want better hardware for running macOS just do it yourself.
See http://lifehacker.com/the-alwa...
I'm disappointed as well. Like many others, I switched to a Macbook Pro after running Linux for years, with something not quite working, whether wireless or hibernation.
But I looked at System76 15" laptops... 1080p screens, and a numpad. I wouldn't care about numpads, except it means that the trackpad and keyboard are offset from center. Won't ever do it.
I looked. A Dell XPS 15 is the most likely replacement, but for now I'll stay on my 15" 2012 MBP Retina, hoping that Apple will update the older form factor with Kaby Lake, DDR4 with at least 32GB Ram. Would update in a heartbeat.
I have a System76, but honestly I barely use it because it is loud and it has the worst laptop keyboard I've ever encountered (the key spacing is designed for people with HUUUGE hands and any lateral force causes the key to stick and not go down, making typing nearly impossible). And the battery life aint too hot either. The System76 is powerful, but inconvenient. I actually prefer my chromebook, which is much smaller (smaller screen, lower resolution, much less ram, much slower cpu, etc)... but far more usable.
Apple stuff is expensive, but I wonder about people who complain about base specs all the time. 'more' is not necessarily 'better'. My dinky little chromebook has only 4G of ram but I don't even feel it when it pages to/from its SSD. There's no point stuffing 32GB of ram into a laptop, frankly. It's just a waste of power (and money).
I will of course stuff as much ram into a box as is economically feasible, just because I'm me. I have a dual-socket xeon system with 128GB of ram, for example, and I have a broadwell desktop with 64GB of ram. Both are being used as servers and build boxes at the moment.
But the box I currently use for my workstation only has 8GB of ram and I don't feel the paging to/from the SSD even with tons of Chrome windows leaking memory all over the place so I have been in no hurry to replace. In fact, my workstation is just a dinky old Haswell i3 box, and yet it has no problem driving two 4K monitors or playing video. It wouldn't win any prizes playing games, but then again I don't use it to play games.
Update to present-day NVMe SSDs, which have ~3-5x the read performance of a SATA SSD, and I kinda wonder where these complaints come from.
-Matt
I've been using Apple laptop hardware since the 12" PowerBook G4. My most recent purchase was in 2014. This is the first laptop release I am refusing to buy, after having said earlier this year (pre-announcement) that I would be upgrading.
For me, the reasons have little to do with the performance-related specifications, and everything to do with what I perceive to be tremendous arrogance on the part of Apple and the particular design choices that were made that, in my view, clearly reveal their willingness to sacrifice--indeed, completely disregard--function in favor of design.
The first problem is the removal of MagSafe. Ever since it was introduced, they've done multiple iterations of the MagSafe connector, to the point that it was even parodied by CollegeHumor, only to remove it entirely.
The second is the removal of all ports except USB-C / Thunderbolt 3, and then charging $19 - $45 for each optional adapter, rather than including even the most basic USB to USB-C in the box. For a machine that is targeted toward professionals and can cost $3000, this is unacceptable. You need to buy the extra adapter just to have functionality that you currently have with hardware that Apple itself provided (e.g., iPhone/iPad). Then, to say that you made this design choice to improve the portability and weight of the device, is just sophistry: by making people buy and keep track of a whole slew of adapters just to recover the functionality they had before is a step backwards in portability and ease of use. To me, this indicates that Jony Ive only cares about what the machine looks like and doesn't give a fuck about how people in the real world might actually use it.
The third problem is the lack of an included 3-prong extension cable. Yes, for a lot of people, this was optional. But making it optional out of the box means that it's one more hidden cost, especially for an adapter that already costs so much on its own. Why take it out of the box now? Is $3000 too little profit margin for Apple?
The fourth problem, and the most telling of all, is the overall choice to limit the hardware specifications--for example, the maximum allowed RAM--on a device that does not have user-serviceable RAM, no less, simply because it would have impacted battery life. This is an outright lie, because all you should do is make the battery bigger and the device thicker. This tells us that Apple again chooses to put design first and usability and performance last.
Why buy this product? It reeks of hubris, and this is coming from someone who, again, has been a long-time user of Apple products.
There's a difference between "free" and "costs nothing".
My time costs nothing. I don't need to pay anyone. I can take my time and do it my way, at my own convenience and stop when I like.
However, forking out $500 extra is not something I can necessarily do at any point.
But, to be honest, you're assuming that a) they're an existing Mac user, b) they can't cope on Ubuntu and c) things are easier to learn on Mac than on Ubuntu.
Not all of those are going to be true. And when they're not, the time factor is common to both machines, or specific to your particular workload.
For instance, after 20 years in the industry, I still feel a productivity drop the second I hit a Mac workstation. I literally feel held back on what I want to achieve. When it works, sure, it's fine like anything else. But when it doesn't, it's a damn nightmare and finding service and support is not cheap if you don't like the answer "We'll just reinstall". And I'm not just talking Mac desktops but Mac "servers" as well (P.S. a bog-standard Mac with a software upgrade from the App Store isn't a "server").
Take, for instance, when I needed to renew a certificate. On one Mac Mini server we were using, I clicked Renew, it said it was successful, done. On another, identical, purchased at the same time, same spec, redundant Mac Mini performing the same functions, the Renew failed. Two hours later, after basically using a terminal and what amounted to OpenSSL commands, I got it to renew without breaking the certificate chain. UI options to do that after failure? ZERO. And guess where the Renew button is, go on... I dare you. It changes between OS versions and is tucked away in an obscure place half the time.
Sure, it's not every day, but that's the instances I use them. And in the every day stuff, I avoid them precisely because of stuff like this. We have suites of Macs... the users avoid them and can get into all kinds of trouble especially where keychains or App Store apps are involved. Simple fixes but "only if you know how".
Macs are nice WHILE THEY WORK and you use them to do simple things. The time and effort when they don't is multiplied enormously compared to competitors. I can google and in five seconds find an Ubuntu page for basically anything I want to do. With Macs, I can spend hours searching forums (central knowledgebase is bog-useless, a bit like MS KB, but at least most general PC forums can help you on a Windows PC) and end up at the answer "You can't" or "Nobody knows."
Yes, I manage them. I manage hundreds of iPads and dozens of Macs, and some servers. And they consume more time than hundreds of Chromebooks, hundreds of PCs and dozens of Windows servers. Over my lifetime I've managed hundreds of them, thousands of iPads and thousand and thousands of other machines. And I still choose not to use them whenever possible because of the time-suck that finding out how to do something simple can be.
Think of it this way: The Mac is more expensive and makes some functions easier. The Ubuntu is cheaper, and takes more legwork. Windows is the middle ground, not cheap but not simple either.
However, when things go wrong, that flips completely on its head.
P.S. I had a 2-week argument with Apple only recently because we can't create iTunes accounts for a school. Doesn't matter what they get me to sign up to, etc. they have no support for it, the systems they have in place (including Apple School Manager which is still in Beta over here), etc. does not provide me with the simplest of functionality to lock down an iPad, even with £100k of Cisco Meraki MDM kit. Their ultimate solution was to relax a security restriction so I could manually create iTunes accounts so that kids with iPads could sign in and use them. That's their solution for A SCHOOL with hundreds of these things.
When things go wrong, or outside of their intended use-case, Apple honestly could not care less. I'd rather not pay for that attitude, and avoid having to d
If you spec up something close from HP and don't cheat on spec by picking things that are lower grade, it is similarly priced normally. That said, pricing on the new touch bar models is taking the piss.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Please don't take this as apple bashing. I am glad you have a flawless experience but sometimes things don't always work that way. I have an iMac which no longer puts the screen to sleep. Right from a fresh reboot and simple login without opening any programs the screen never goes to sleep. All the Apple help and forums answers are just a waste of time. I spent days trying to fix it. I reinstalled from scratch and after a few months it comes back. The screen won't sleep. This is happening on two different systems and it's most likely something that I installed.
Now on LInux or FreeBSD I have never had a system that worked that stopped working just because. I've installed many drivers that broke things but there was always a way to fix the problem. At least in Linux or FreeBSD changes are always in the same location not hidden in undocumented locations.
There are other examples of annoying issues associated with Apple products but to say that they are easy to maintain just depends on your experience.
In the meantime I'll just put it to sleep manually...
DRM? No thanks, I'll just get it somewhere else...
Especially when the claim is self-serving. Sorry, fails the conflict-of-interest test. Shame on Slashdot.
Go use a retina display, on a mac (so it doesn't have brain damaged scaling) for a week. It will ruin you for 1080p.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Funny story.
I had an ADHD non-technical boss in his tiny startup. He used to come in and interrupt and actively redirect us developers (on to a different most inportant development priority) an average of 4 times a day... When he wasn't fake-guffawing his way through endless sales calls well within audible range.
It got so frustrating (I wasn't in financial position to just up and quit) that I started programming my own e-business idea on my 12" laptop sitting in the back seat of the bus for half an hour on the way to work every morning and back again after work. I swear to you I got more productive development done in that environment for that hour than the entire rest of the day, despite the multi-monitor setup at work.
Working for that focussed twenty minutes to half-hour at a time, you were forced to define a bite-sized chunk of task and laser focus on it. Could pop in and out of screen overview to switch contexts, and just laser in on one context at a time. And you would be still working on the logical completion / follow-on of that task in the end-of-day commute, and the next day commute. Couldn't do the same at work, because the timing of the next total redirection was unpredictable.
Big screen real estate is convenient when you have it, but you can also get more organized about your 2-click screen context change on a small laptop, and there are way more important factors for development productivity, in my experience.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
I have a MacBook Pro and I'm planning the switch to Ubuntu. The System76 display is 1920x1080. If you're coming from a retina display, that's not going to do it. I'm looking at a Dell XPS 15 as the replacement.
Er what? You realize you can install Linux on a Mac just like you can install Windows on a Mac.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
It's because their laptops work as HAckintoshes quite well.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
That's a shocker...
Apple will price their products to reflect the development costs and engineering expense they invest to design and deliver new parts, services, and experience.
Agreed. The problem is that in the past those costs went into developing useful features like a rugged aluminium body, a fantastic glass trackpad with gesture support, longer battery life etc. With this model that cost has gone into removing multiple important ports (one USB-A and a SD card slot would have been really nice), removing previous innovations (no mag-safe) and removing function keys to replace them with a silly gimick that would require me to divide attention between the keyboard and screen.
On top of this they release it with a CPU that is one year old and a GPU that is one generation old. This is not the Apple of a few years ago that negotiated to get early access to Intel CPUs and used cutting end GPUs in the machines. On top of that they did not refresh their desktop line and are STILL trying to sell a $4k+ Mac Pro machine which is now 3 years old. Apple have not only dropped the ball with the mac they did so so long ago that the competition has run with it and scored and they still don't even seem to realize it. Just compare the new MS Surface Studio to what Apple came up with. I've used macs for over a decade now but this even really was the last straw and reluctantly I'm heading back to Linux and Windows now.
I am interested in a non-Intel architecture, similar to the Lemote and preferably made on a BRICS country; as I said before HP, Compaq, IBM, Lenovo and Dell are out of the list.
Gosh, these are not attractive laptops at all. Ugly, ugly, ugly. Also: specs leave something to be desired. 1080p displays? Come on, we are in 2016 almost 2017. If the MS Surface 4 can have 3000x2000 and cost less... Sorry, but I will keep paying the Apple tax.
I'm surprised Apple is back in the clone licensing market. Oh, they're not? Then I don't give a shit. Linux is a shit desktop. I only use it if I'm forced to for work - same as Windows. The sad thing is that Linux will remain a shit desktop because the reaction from the Linux crowd is to circle the wagons rather than improve it.
Ummm...no, actually I didn't forget that.
Yup. Linux has mostly caught up. I am considering moving to Linux Mint. Tim Cook and Jony Ive have ruined Apple.
That's not quite the way to look at it, these are not capital items. For a 3 year lifecycle for a laptop, is it worth $3 a day for the environment of your choice? That's the question to ask.
Dialectician. Archology.
apple needs to stop the must be thin or open up mac os X to more hardware.
This is good. I'm torn too and fro about the new Mac laptops, but they're going to much of the lock-in route and have gotten more expensive. Seeing System76 and others get a bump shows what Seth Godin hinted at just recently and what I have been observing for about 10 years: Apple is losing the opinion leaders.
Same with me btw. After the MacBook Pro presentation I'm still in doubt if I will ever again get a mac. Not a good sign IMHO. I've been on the Mac bandwagon ever since the iBook G4. Linux too, of course, but also Mac.
But these days I'm also leaning towards Linux, as I did 15 years ago.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Why do people always assume their time is free?
Because that's the Linux mindset. And for most Linux users, it's probably true. Afterall, it doesn't usually cost anything to live in Mom's basement!
Alienware offers some pretty fricken high dpi displays- I think their 3840x2160 is higher resolution than a Macbook Pro offers. I have no clue if those machines work acceptably well with Linux, however.
128 GB pci-e ssd min
2 USB-C / TB 3.0 ports
Hopefully a power port
Hopefully e-net
2 USB-A 3.1
maybe an i7 one with
4 usb-C / TB 3.0
maybe dual pci-e ssd slots
2-3 USB-A 3.1
E-net
maybe a ATI video card.
max ram 16-32GB
if we are very lucky a server
dual pci-e ssd
10-gig e-net or dual gig-e
4 USB-C / TB 3.0
up to 64GB ram
2 USB-A 3.1
"...In other words, the System76 machine with much better specs is less expensive than Apple's."
Woah, wait a minute, you mean to tell me that another vendor sells the same or better hardware than Apple, for less?
Nooooooooooooo fucking way...seriously?
/sarcasm
Honestly, if I were to setup a newer Linux laptop, I'd probably be going with something from Asus. If you like aesthetics, the *Zenbook line both look nice and come with good hardware.
I've had Dell's, HP's, Toshiba, Acer, and an MBP, but thus far the Asus laptops have been the most reliable. Heck, they even give a "first accident is on us" warranty, where the only cost for repair is the shipping to send it in. My biggest complaint used to be the 1366x768 screens but nowadays they have models with gorgeous QHD+ resolution.
These Oryx things look pretty large and not particularly appealing, especially for people who are used to sleeker Mac models.
*Note: I have not owned a Zenbook, though I've had various other Asus models. It's on my list for the next upgrade though.
Most of us were totally underwhelmed by Apple's latest MacBook Pro. The totally lack of compatibility with existing peripherals--including the latest iPhone 7 -- without a shopping cart full of dongles (which aren't cheap--and none are included) make Apple's latest offering a big disappointment. Latest specs are underwhelming, too. Add to this the increasing un-repairability of this along with all other Apple products. Since I have many apps the only run on Mac's, I opted to buy la 2015 MacBook Pro.
The above headline makes it look as if people are disappointed w/ the latest version of Mac OS, and have decided to go to Ubuntu instead. Rather, it's more that they're disappointed w/ the latest MacBook, and have decided to go for a System 76 instead
Does it have a ten hour battery life? Four thunderbolt 3 ports? Looks like 2 USB-C ports and 3 USB-3 ports. No so much bandwidth for external devices. Retina Display? Or just 1080P? 76WH battery? Or just 60 WH? Is it .6 inches thick? or over an inch thick? Is it as lightweight? 4 pounds or over 5.5 pounds? Warranty coverage? Can I walk it into a brick and mortar store and get service and repair? Did your configuration use the IPS display? The 200 - 230 watt power supply seems "Yuuggee" so I worry about power consumption. Just asking. Your specs of importance might not be everyone else's ... The Only doesn't seem as competitive to me ...
- Tjp
I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!
When a Windows PC vendor makes a bone-headed move, Microsoft is protected by diversity among manufacturers. They won't all ditch USB 3.0 and HDMI at the same time. As long as you can tolerate Windows, somebody will always offer a PC worth buying.
With OS X, the consumer's choice in products is only as good as Apple's hardware. In the past, Apple made some really excellent decisions with the MacBook Pro. In recent years? Not so much. If this is the best Apple can do, maybe they should exit the laptop hardware business. Open up the drivers and sell OS X to the rest of the Intel-based laptop world. At least then, somebody will offer a 2016 GPU and 32G of memory in a machine that doesn't require a basket of dongles to connect a phone, mouse, keyboard, and monitor.
These laptops are integrated around Linux, and you don't need to do any hassle for Linux to work on them. Installing Linux on a random lappie isn't bad like it used to be, but... I wouldn't recommend it in the general case. But these aren't random laptops.
I'm pretty sure Dell (at least through their Alienwares) has some high dpi options, higher than Apple at any event. Not sure about aspect ratio. Probably some other companies too, but not sure.
While this may seem petty, the MagSafe connector has saved my laptop numerous times from falling to the ground. For me, MagSafe is one of the biggest selling points of the MacBookPro. No other laptop manufacturer offers a power connector like MagSafe and honestly the loss of the MagSafe in the MBP is a real sticking point to me.
Let's replace keys, which have a good tactile feel, with hard glass that gives an unpleasant feeling to your fingers when you tap the glass. The guy who came up with this idea: a complete genius!
My wild guess is the only benefit of touch bar is they get to scan your fingerprints and store it in their database.
The TouchBar is an absolute step away from "form follows function." It is an abomination.
I look at the screens (3 of them) when working. To find a key, especially the "Esc" key, I reach and feel with my pinky. Esc has its roots in way-old machines, but serves a great purpose in modern laptops by providing a "Cancel" or "No" or "Don't Save" function.
Return means "OK", "Save", "Yes", or similar. I don't need to look to find it.
Esc means "No", "Cancel", "Interrupt", and so on. If I have to look down to find the fucking Esc key, then my productivity will drop significantly.
Yep...exactly where I was a couple years ago...all Mac...but after the Mavericks crapshow, now on Android and Ubuntu...made the right choice.
its not System76 machine, System76 doesnt make anything (other than the stickers) its CLEVO.
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
This guy is a retard. You can configure the system he made for much less than $2000.
I am so sick of the platform wars... Every time Apple comes out with something, there are a crap ton of articles such as the one saying Microsoft is more Apple than Apple and Linux is the answer, etc., etc., etc. Some are click bait and some are trying to restart the Microsoft / Apple / Linux wars. Well here's some information from someone who runs or ran just about every top tier OS ever made.
1. Apple Macs are more than just tech specs. You cannot compare hardware chipsets and revisions between a Mac and anything else. The OS varies. It is the combination of elegant hardware, drivers and operating system that work together to provide a very nice overall user experience. You simply have fewer problems overall. If you are a programmer it is the best platform. You get all the developer tools for free and anything open source runs on it. Plus you get Microsoft Office and Adobe apps, etc. that won't run on Linux. Mac's are fantastic for anyone managing a Unix/Linux data center or doing DevOps, etc. It's not just for those graphic artist weenies and photographers. It's a great family home machine as it will less likely get hacked and abused by malware (if properly setup). TimeMachine backups work, it's saved my bacon many times to the point of having a dead hard disk and being back in business a couple hours later with a new drive. Is it the right choice for everyone? Hell no!
2. Linux is great, absolutely amazing; on servers. It sucks badly on laptops. Disclaimer: it is getting better and with System76 and Dell providing very nice Linux hardware platforms. But the GUI is nowhere near consistent with way too many choices. For me it's all command line all the time. Meanwhile, Microsoft is embracing Linux because of the Cloud. They are porting SQL Server to Linux, running Linux in Azure, bringing some Linux/GNU goodness to the command line in Win10, etc. Most everything that runs on Linux runs on Mac. I think the Linux and Open Source guys are winning!
3. You want to buy a Dell XPS Developer Edition with Linux or maybe a System76, go right ahead. You want to strip out Ubuntu and run ArchLinux, more power to you! Just don't go claiming it is a viable replacement for a Mac cause it's not even close. I know all about Linux, been using it prior to the kernel 1.0 release, back when you had to rewrite two boot floppies to get the CDROM to install and there was no broadband. I know how to tweak it and make it sing. I've spent a million hours tweaking it. This is the reason I didn't buy an Android phone. It's a tool an appliance, I don't want to spend all my spare time tweaking it. I want it to work out of the box and I want the OS to get the hell out of my way. Open bag, pull out Mac, flip open lid, unlock, do work, close lid, slide back into the bag, rinse and repeat day after day after day. Plug it in to charge when it needs it. Reboot when you have to. Backups? Make sure TimeMachine or CrashPlan is working, done.
4. Windows has actually improved quite a bit but it's still frustrating. There are still a lot of problems. I don't run Windows at home except for a few virtual machines because I fix computers all day long at work, I don't want to do battle with malware at home on my wife's PC. I converted her to Mac a long time ago and she never has issues. She brings her friends laptops home for me to fix running Vista on a PoS ancient laptop. I now charge $500 to even look at it cause it will consume the next 72 hours of my life fixing it.
I've got 5 Mac's at home, a few iPads and iPhones it all works nice together. I have a SmartOS private cloud with 24TB's of storage at home as well. It's running about 50+ virtual machines many of which are Linux servers. A few Win7/Win10 VMs for when I need them. I run Plex and stream video to AppleTV's and iOS devices. I rarely have problems of any kind. Would I give my wife a Linux laptop to use as her primary computer? Nope, not gonna happen. Have I run Linux as my main system, most definitely yes but lately they hum away
Specifically, from a T460s running Windows 10 Enterprise x64. It has the same trackpad design as the Carbon X1 in that link.
Sorry for being so blunt, but if you're going to confidently and publicly state such utter falsehoods, you'll take some flak for it.
Yes (duh). All Windows laptop trackpads I've seen made in the last six years, and many before that, have been multitouch. I've got a laptop from 2006 with a multitouch trackpad. The $270 netbook-thing my mom uses has a multitouch trackpad.
Yep. Built-in option in Win10. Settings->Mouse->"Scroll inactive windows when I hover over them". Some mouse / trackpad OEM drivers (including the ones used in my old Lenovo) supported it on older versions too.
Not what I have mine configured for - three-fingers left/right switches apps, down/up is minimize/restore - but in theory, sure.
Yep, or switch virtual desktops using left/right.
Yes, of course; like multitouch, this is one of the basic gestures that has been supported for many years.
Have you considered the possibility that you're running your mouth off without a single fucking clue what you're talking about? You're making a bloody fool out of yourself, much like the person who modded you up. I thought the Apple "reality distortion field" was supposed to have died with Jobs, but if that's what you think the reality is...
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
Just compare it to the zenbook.
http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/pr...
I think Apple is giving up on the Mac.
Ha! That's funny, the only Mac I own is a G5. Hooked it up and played with it enough to realize that their claim of "far more intuitive UI" was a marketing fallacy. Ain't turned the thing on in years. Junk.
No, I can't see myself ever paying any money for rotten fruit. It's junk to me. Give me Windows or Linux, or just light that shit on fire.
I tried that, and then went back to my non-retina MBP (13") and couldn't tell the difference in quality. I did notice video performance increasing due to stepping down in screen resolution, but that's a different story.
I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
I'm one of the "Apple Loyalists" seriously considering Linux. It's fairly easy to experiment with software (my main difficulty is Lightroom, currently looking at Corel AfterShot Pro). I've heard System76 isn't great hardware despite the convenience of shipping with Linux, but I'm not sure what the best options are.
Looking for a 15" laptop that can do RAW photo processing, I've come up with the Asus ZenBook Pro and the Dell XPS line. I've found articles on installing Ubuntu on both; they sound like they have some issues but it can be done.
Are there clear winners for Linux laptops outside of System76?
Try using one for a while... People who have won't go back. HiDPI screens (call them Retina or whatever) basically take things so there aren't any pixels. The text is perfectly clear. Vectors are perfectly clear. When people don't have the right image assets, you notice they're blurrier than everything else.
For text, it's a godsend. I can use vector fonts to get things just right instead of trying to find the right bitmap font (because on non-HiDPI screens, they get blurry with antialiasing). PragmataPro is simply gorgeous. That means I can use a slightly smaller size font and still have everything readable than I could otherwise, fitting more on screen. It means image editing is way better.
I spent four months working on a non-HiDPI 27" display and was driven crazy. Now that I have a 4K 27" display, things are so much clearer.
I use a high DPI display daily with my Sony Xperia Z4 tablet. And yes, the crispy sharp text is pretty cool. It doesn't really ruin normal displays for me, though so I won't get a 4k display for my PC any time soon.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
You're missing the point.
If a sysadmin can't do things they consider simple, and won't USE THE COMPUTER even as a client, how many old grannies out there are struggling just the same but plod along without trying to do *whatever* again because they couldn't work it out.
Seriously, I've seen users who can't do multiple apps without closing others first, who can't minimise, maximise or use dual-screens. And Macs have things that are much more unintuitive on them too.
I'm not saying "Argh, nobody can possibly use them". I'm saying, you can make up all the nonsense you like, fact is they are not inherently easier to use for anyone - at any skill level.
Windows 8 had an office of people baffled when we tried to close a Metro app from a touchscreen without using the mouse. We literally couldn't find it, it was so unintuitive (we weren't swiping from THE VERY TOP of the screen, you see). But claiming - or even inferring - that Mac is so wonderful that those things never happen? It means you've never watched a user use one of those things for the first time, or sat with them purely helping only when they get stuck.
The german Tuxedo proposes even more models than Syst76 or Zareason... ;-)
I won't post the urls here so as not to offend ad-adverts too much
But they too propose machines as light as the MBP, with Kaby Lake processors, twice to four times more RAM, multiple, terabyte SSDs... and basically within same cost.
As an amateur photograph, and having tried the open source Darktable and RawTherapee on the mac, my next machine early next year will definitely be a Tuxedo...
Herve S.
I spent four months working on a non-HiDPI 27" display and was driven crazy. Now that I have a 4K 27" display, things are so much clearer.
Notice how I was talking about my desktop 23" display vs a 15" laptop, and you are using a 27" display. The bigger the display, the more resolution matters. So for me, 1080 is fine at 23". At 27" I might feel differently. At 15", I have a hard time feeling like this is going to be some kind of game changer when I'm not having problems at 23".
An example among many other configs on their site:
15'
32Gb RAM
Kaby Lake i7-7500U
SATAIII 2048Gb SSD
M.2 513Gb SSD
44Wh replaceable battery
2Kg (with battery)
circa 2400€
And there are MANY other machines, lighter, stronger, at wish.
I for one have been using macs since the Apple II. Next year, it'll be Mint-based Tuxedo machines.
(an url for the config above : http://www.tuxedocomputers.com... )
Herve S.
I have zero problems with my 1080 display. The text looks fine and is not blurry.
Be honest with yourself when doing this: Place a 4k monitor and a 1080p monitor side by side with lots of text showing.
Your 1080p monitor is far superior to the 13 inch television (CRT, not LCD) that I had to use a monitor way back when, but if asked, I would have said that the 13 television works... just as you are saying your 1080p monitor works.
A friend came over to my place one day semi-recently. He walked in my door and could see my monitor from the doorway, about 8 meters away. Immediately he exclaimed that my monitor was very different than his. I explained it was a 4k monitor and he immediately went out and bought one.
Could he see the pixels from 25 feet away? Definitely not. Could he still tell the difference between 4k and 1080p from 25 feet away? Certainly.
Honestly, 4k is supremely better but in an overall sense, it is only one more step on the way to photorealism. My 4k monitor is still less than 300 DPI... and 600 DPI is closer to the ultimate goal.
Give up your absurd 1080p monitor, get a 4k monitor, and hope that they get to 600 DPI before you die. The lack of DPI may not consciously affect you, and it certainly does not consciously affect many others; however, the lack of clarity is absurdly evident once you examine the folks who get headaches and fatigue from trying to do edge detection on low-DPI monitors. (edge detection is how we identify letters and objects in our brains)
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
My '09 MPB is still going ... after replacing the superdrive and logic board, and upgrading to a SSD drive and the max of 8GB memory.
Apple seems to forget that their premier laptop, while a portable, is also a pretty powerful computer used by loads of people worldwide.
While it's nice to have portability as an option, in practice mine is usually plugged in, with an external monitor.
Probably the real reason they won't go beyond 16GB isn't energy as they say, rather nobody's going to shell out for their hideously overpriced, soldered-to-the-board memory.
I'm never buying another Apple product I can't work on, and upgrade myself. Unfortunately, Adobe still has no path to running on Linux, so it would have to be a VM of either M$ or Apple's own OS. Either way they're not getting any new hardware sales from me until they realize that while the walled garden might be fine for tech-clueless cell phone users, folks that know what they're doing don't like being held prisoner to their machines.
Be honest with yourself when doing this: Place a 4k monitor and a 1080p monitor side by side with lots of text showing.
I don't have a 4k monitor lying around, so this isn't going to happen. I've seen them in the stores and have not been gobsmacked.
Your 1080p monitor is far superior to the 13 inch television (CRT, not LCD) that I had to use a monitor way back when, but if asked, I would have said that the 13 television works... just as you are saying your 1080p monitor works.
Aliasing was very obvious in the older monitors, as was some screen blurring. They "worked", but I looked forward to bigger monitors with higher resolution.
Give up your absurd 1080p monitor, get a 4k monitor
I'll get one when this monitor dies, which could be several years. Who knows, maybe it'll be 8k by then.
Did that. Still a pig.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
I would suggest that you get your eyes tested. Text is much, much sharper and easier to read.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Eh, someone should make a laptop with a portrait screen, perhaps an OLED HiDPI one. Problem solved.