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MTV's Hacker Portrayal
fat_mike writes "Last night, MTV did a True Life show on Hackers. There are some interesting comments over at the Hacker News Network. " I was unable to see it, but it doesn't sound like it went very well - coverage that didn't understand the subject matter. Anyone else catch it?
I liked the 'Hackers' movie for what it was. A romantic comedy. The comedy of course being the technology. If you lower your expectations, then movies can be ok. Hey, if you lower em enough, StarWars isn't half bad....
Finally ...someone that has heard of Downtown...I don't know about the rest of you but I really -like- this show... Why are the only things worth watching anymore animated????
you must be joking! It almost sounds like you were somewhat interested in the show! You must have been impressed(hehehehe) I'll stop now.
Steven Levy wrote a book that gets it right- "Hackers". It has comparatively little about phreaking and intrusion (for that read Bruce Sterling's "The Hacker Crackdown")- instead, it's very old school and illustrates the knowledge seeking obsessions of classic hackers, for which intrusions or 'lock' breaking was no more than a tool to get to other tools to learn things.
If you want anybody to really understand what a hacker(1) is, have 'em read the Steven Levy book. If you want them to understand what a hacker(2) is, have them read the Bruce Sterling book. If you want them to understand the situation have them read both...
Starting a post with:
"I am sure I will be labeled as flamebait here..."
... or something to that extent, is a sure fire way to get moderated up. Not to knock this post too much, but a 5!? I remember when it took close to a poet laureate to get there. Moderators need to spend more time fishing out the good 1's & 2's out there, rather than boosting the already credited posts to 4's & 5's.
I dunno about anyone else that watched the show but I'll tell you this much... I laughed my ass off the whole time. I mean come on... What do you really expect from MTV?
LOL! Somebody moderate this one up... :) Fnkmaster
About the same time MTV starts showing them again, I'd imagine.
-=Best Viewed Using [INLINE]=-
"TRUE LIFE: I'm a luser!"
maybe MTV could use a *REAL* hacking experience? I imagine they could use some good ol' fashioned DoS or maybe some Xploitation of their NT's...
::
hmmmmm...
----
\\//
\/
Here comes Kit shoveling more of his garbage:
Remember, some newspapers still think that HTML is a programming language..
Granted, HTML doesn't contain case or iteration constructs that define true programming languages, but godamn, you can still use it to get things done. Where has the media used HTML in the wrong context? If you're trying to make some generic point you picked a lame example. You need to get off your high horse and join everyone else, because you ain't all that.
And oh yeah, don't bother with the long drawn out cliche-full response. You remember my last reply to one of your comments, don't you. You bore me.
Hates people who have stupid little sigs
Hear Hear! Coders make the whole wide wierd world work you numbnuts. Believe me, when you make a proggie work after laying into for 20 hours straight I can guarantee the feeling is akin to winning the gold in the Olympics. Besides, I get paid to do it too. Thats whats great.
Posted by Mike@ABC:
The l0pht, in my estimation, is a credible source of both technical and hacker-cultural knowledge. That doesn't mean that MTV actually listened to them.
And hey, if you're looking for credible journalism, why are you watching MTV?!
Would an NT hacker be called a Warlock? A newbie an apprentice? There are a lot of cool things that could go on with that line of reasoning
But don't call me a magician. What I do is so much deeper than slight of hand and fool the eye. I actually mold the computer to my will, instead of working within the confines of it.
. when in danger or in doubt, run in circles scream and shout --Robert Heinlein
hahaha. You moderators make me laugh. If you're going to bring me down at least stop for a second and think. Do you understand what a troll is? If anything my comment should have been marked as flamebait. But I guess that happens when you give any jackass moderation points.
Hates people who have stupid little sigs
Martha Quinn is a Godess!!!
Agreed. MTV used to be about the music and only the music, but now it's degraded into a cheap imitation of itself. The only few times it has shows of decent quality is around 3:00 in the morning, when they decide they want to play AMP or Beavis and Butthead. Everything else is total horsepoopy.
It's not just MTV going downhill -- it's because music in general is going downhill. How many of the bands on the top 10 are manufactured? Probably 9 of them (last time I checked, Santana was on the top 10). It's the record companies that are telling us what WE should listen to. They're not going for the groups with the most talent. They're going for the groups that they think they can market the best. That's why we don't see too many original artists anymore, all we see in mainstream radio and music television are groups that look like they've been rehashed from earlier groups.
(going way offtopic: am I the only one that's entirely pissed off about that song "Abercrombie and Fitch", or whatever the true name of the song is? It's a 5 minute radio advertisement, and it got played all over the damn place! Yet another example of people with too much money telling us what WE should be listening to).
Going back ontopic, I agree totally, and Dire Straights said it best: "I want my MTV". That used to be a slogan, that used to be a lifestyle.
We need a new slogan. "I want *MY* MTV back."
Have to agree on that one, Kennedy was indeed pretty hot. At least in my geek eyes.
Hey, I said [NT]! Why you reading this?
Most of the stuff i listen to is done by artist that write music becuase they want to. Also just becuase I don't support the cd makers don't mean i steal from the artist. Why should I buy a cd when I don't even like cd's?!?!
MarNuke
In any event, does anyone remember that short-lived animated series on MTV about this giant, muscular rabbit super-hero that wore a purple suit, and lived in some chick's dreamworld? It was great, ranked right up there with Aeon Flux
--
PanDuh
there was 120 waaaaay before alternative nation, this asshole with a fake british accent hosted it, ohhh Dave Kendal :)
I know 120 was around along time before i started watching it, he may not even have been the first host
I believe it's really about the corruption in the world. People have to be good people in real life, just to get by, but when they get online it doesn't matter what they do.
I agree with this. It's the same with people who drive crazily. They feel like no one will ever figure out it was them. These people feel as if their identities are shielded by their computer/car. Once they are armed with this false sense of anonymity, they do things that if they were face to face with the other person they would never do.
cable boxes should come with disclaimers saying that everything on here is a half witted attempt to cater to the least intelligent people, cause they make up 99% of the worlds population
How can 99% of the population be the least intelligent people? Least intelligent = dumbest, bottom of the barrel, etc. And 99% falls into that? Damn, that's a steep pyramid.
--- Where's my X.400 protocol decoder?
someone cant act "black" or "white". we're all people here, and if thats the way they are then they're acting like themselves...people.
Technicaly, somone can't be black ether. most 'blacks' actualy have brown skin. I've known people who call themselves 'black' dispite the fact there skin wasn't any darker then your average asian person (They are basign this on there heratige).
Like it or not, there are cultural diffrences between the majority of blacks and whites in this contry. Certanly I wouldn't hold the standard to everyone.
The reason that I dislike it when 'white boys act black' is that in every instance of a white person acting 'black' They were a pathetic idiot. Instaid of embracing african-american culture, they've adopted a cartoon caracture of it as portraid in the Gangsta-rap records that are targeted at them. You don't sell 6 million CDs by selling them to black tenagers (there are only about 12 million blacks in the US). and a harverd graduate like 'puff dady' knows this (I'm not sure what he majored in, I think bussness. It sure as fuck wasn't music theory).
I don't have a problem with black culture, my problem that when 'white boys' act black, they are invariably idiots. The real-world equivalent of a 'script-kiddy'. I havn't met LFO, but based on my real-world observations, they are ether idiots, or, more likely, pandering to them.
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
it was annoying too.... I couldn't watch it for over 10 minutes. it made you believe that if you could crack an NT WEB server, you were God. Notice that all users were running windows? (or all that I seen in the 10 minutes). It just makes me mad that these people are doing it for glory. (what ever happened to bettering software?) Fucking script kiddies exploiting for fun, but taking all credit for everything... oh well...
so tell us mr inside scoop on l0pht abilities, what makes you qualified to make that statement? And i think l337 5p34k has grown beyond warez. Sometimes it's fun to have a new way of doing things, like typing.
got an antecedent for "he"? (the person He stands for)
+&x
MAn I wish you would just BL0W IT OUT YER ASS.
BLOW IT OUT Y3R ASS! L0pht couldn't haXxX0R th3iR W4y 0uT 0f A w3T p4P3R b4G. 1M 3|33+!!!
I won't be cutting my cable any time soon - I'd have no internet access :-)
We do have cable TV in order to watch PBS. I like PBS because the people on there are indeed like me or are people I'd like to be like (yes, even the Teletubbies).
I used to love MTV, back when they actually had music on that channel.
I think we killed it already...
I was refearing to the mindset of the media in the most part.
Writing code for US is cool and fun but for the media it's dull and boring. Even showed someone a "hack"?? No? Why not? Well for me everytime I showed someone they lose intrest after the first 5 minutes.
"What do you mean it would take you all night?!?!? You're not a good hacker then!!"
Disclaimer:
I enjoy coding when I don't make 50 million typo's and it's one of the most rewarding things in my life, next to sex and driving a 400 hp hotrod I built.
MarNuke
There was also Alternative Nation which predated 120 minutes
this space for rent
This isn't intended as flamebait, but I didn't look out for the programme because (foolish naif that I am) I'd like MTV to be a music station and there's no point in watching it if that's what you want. Last night I turned it on, and what did I get? Jerry fucking Springer.
Ah well. Anyone know if it's on MTV europe? I suppose if I can't expect music I might as well use the station for something
If MTV wants to perpetuate a false sterotype, so be it. I'm pretty sure everyone who watches their shows falls into one of two categories
1) Those who know better.
2) Those who will learn.
3) Slashdot trolls.
4) That 'blow it out yer ass' guy.
5) The z3r0kewl@aol.com guy.
Just though I'd add a bit to the list.
Heh... I have blue hair. Bright blue hair.
As a programmer interesting in creative new solutions, I consider myself a hacker. So voila, I'm part of the %5- percent of hackers that have blue hair. Whee. When do I get to be on MTV? I can show off my mad MSG_OOB skills.
And really, there's no point in dying your hair and having a day job. I mean, dyed hair is self-expression, day jobs are (for the most part) prisons.
So quit your job, risk it all, and dye that hair something bright n fun.
Also, if your hair turns green, you should bleach it twice before you do. My hair is El Indestructo, and if I bleach it once it's a really ugly orange, but if you bleach it twice or more it'll come out wonderfully. Be sure and get the kind of bleach with skin conditioner, so your scalp isn't Colonel's Secret Recipie style. You sound trained in the Art Of Making Your Hair Look Weird, so I'm guessing you've tried all this and have accepted that your hair is made out of tightly-bonded buckyballs or something.
Remember kids, punk isn't dead... it's supposed to smell like that.
-- I can't think of anything witty to put here. Sorry.
What were you people expecting from MTV?
/. seems like an intelligent bunch, why does anyone here even WATCH MTV anyway? It's a piece of poo on a plate. (unless Ricky Martin throbs your nads)
"The number of suckers born each minute doubles every 18 months."
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
blow it out yer raped ass
umm, it's very difficult to get "complete" privacy on the 'Net. Just ask your ISP what your favorite pr0n site is, they probably know.
+&x
hmm...the default ps that ships with redhat has now been changed..it used to be a BSD style ps (no -) now it doesnt have that restriction and takes a SysV style command. ps auvwwf is a helluva lot less clearer than ps -ef.
..but this show doesn't deserve in-depth critique.
It's just another in a long line of media misrepresentation.. IOW, it buys into the posturing of young teens.
...it's never 3 feet from me.
If a mp3 player can store 8 gigs of mp3's, play dvd movies, replace a play station, and admin my network from the the living room of my friend's house, sure I'll take it, but until then, I'll keep my laptop.
MarNuke
It sounded like regular MTV. I don't watch MTV for journalism and so I wasn't suprised at their lackluster performance. It's good to see at least some major media like CNN are getting better at reporting on the high-tech industry and the people who make it possible. But for my money /. is still the best media source out there.
Vidi, vici, veni. (I saw, I conquered, I came)
They had JPenis from antionline on there, I think he'd count as a pimply faced youth.
you forgot to call them 'darned whippersnappers'
When headbangers ball got cancelled. Can't remember when, might have been like 95-96 Now all they show is that Backstreet boyz garbage.
.. first, if you lifted that nick from the movie "The Usual Suspects", it's spelled Keyser. Anyway, the reason why you don't see realistic shows about hackers is because to the majority of the TV viewers hacking is boring. Everyone always goes nuts over stuff like this. I don't see why. It happens all the time. How many of you were upset about the fact that Baywatch lifeguards are frauds?
I don't know about you, but these guys are truely hackers. They were running mirc with a white background and playing the matrix asf at the same time. We also can't forget a fullscreen telnet window with green text.
I just checked a number of internet dictionaries for the definition of hacker. Some list it as a relatively innocent person with a deep interest in computer programming. Other's list it as someone with little training in computers (!) and some list it as a person with malicious intent. The definitions seem to vary greatly, check them out. I recommend starting at http://www.onelook.com/. Try the "Special Subjects" search as well as the "General Words" search. As a result, it may seem that MTV was using one of the many varied (but apparently valid) definitions of the word "hacker". Seems this word's meaning hasn't been completely nailed down -- either that or there are a lot of bad dictionaries out there.
Yep, you hit it on the head. Cancel your Cable, because you are wasting money. Go read books or surf. There just isn't enough "Good Stuff" to justify the money, the over exposure to the advertising, the crap, etc. Cable TV just isn't a reliable medium for gathering information. I don't think it ever was.
So I am cynical about it. Then again, that comes from the fact that I feel way more enriched mentally once I stopped using the television drug.
Jeff
As Mr. T so eloquently stated, I pity the fool who thinks L0pht members couldn't hack their way out of a wet paper bag. Do some homework and get a clue about the group you're bashing. Read the article on Hackernews.com to gain some insight about the information L0pht shared with Serena. MTV presented a sensationalist view of hacking. If shit on a stick was the latest craze you'd see Serena and her MTV gang trying to profile it.
If you wanna see bad watch that global groove crap they have on now. thats gona be some of the fakest shit ive ever seen.
I acutally got falsity and untruthitude from an SNL skit. So I figured that falsity wasn't a word
As does Hartman-era News Radio.
Post-Hartman is kinda strained, but when they had it going... hoo boy.
And while some people trumpet the "90% of everything is crap" motto, I have to mention that not all crap grinds down peoples' sense of self-worth in order to sell them things.
Bad fiction, for example, is just repellant. You think to yourself "Wow, this guy can't write for shit," put it down, and get on with reading Kim Stanley Robinson's Three Californias trilogy (GREAT READING).
MTV's fashion hour, however, is a finely-tuned psychological tool created for the sole purpose of making you feel fat and ugly and in need of swimsuits, makeup, and crap like that.
So while 90% of everything is crap, not everything is malicious crap. That distinction needs to be made.
-- I can't think of anything witty to put here. Sorry.
I stand corrected. I meant to put credit card numbers, but somehow passwords slipped out in its place.
-- K
Dunno about you, but even when I was 15/16 (5 years ago...christ...) I thought MTV was pretty dumb. Except for Beavis and Butthead, I thought they were awesome (still do!)
hooray for gratuitously silly posts...
--
"HORSE."
"HORSE."
-Flaming Carrot
Ever see that "hacker" guy shamrocks internet show? It's at http://www.parsetv.com and it's called parse. Someone should put a picture of a llamah on their homepage.
This kid couldn't hack his way out of a wet paper bag with an axe and he needs change to make pay phone calls. llamah goes bl33t
The place that hosts it ( http://pseudo.com ) isn't too secure either...heh
There was a link from /. a few weeks ago. They testified in front of Fred Thompson, the newest Actor turned Politico. :).
He, after taking a clue-by-four across the temple, called them "American heroes." (Note: the clue was the total vulnerability and shaky infrastructure our multi-trillion dollar economy is built upon)
(i'd give it a link, but it took more than 30 seconds to find one
+&x
I mean with rateings. I wonder if enough /.ers tuned in to make the show's ratings very high. B/c if that's the case guess what... we are going to see a lot more crap like this!
I can see the MTV people now
"holy cow! normally the ratings for that show wouldn't jump-start a yugo, but tonight we beat 90210!"
"are we being hacked?"
"um... let's do 12 more shows like that!"
Most of the time MTV is just trash, but it has come up with Daria, The Max, Beavis And Butthead and ummm...I guess that's it.
I don't hear any music. I just see a bunch of no talent morons in stupid clothes making irritating noise.
yuck. way to go to the bottom of the heap for info. What the hell were they doing with him when they had lOpht?
It's good stuff. Dark, interesting and mysterious with a touch of humor thrown in. The episodes are available on a single VHS tape (put out by MTV), which also allows you to see the whole story in the right order. I recommend it.
Having not seen the MTV "documentary", I can't coment directly on how badly the show portrayed /hackers/ but I can surmise.
First, one has to realize that MTV is not a reliable source of fact for any thinking member of our society. Rather, it is more like a big advertisement, telling us the youth what we should be, look, and act like. Consequently, it is no surprise they f'd up the portrayal of hackers and serious computer people. They will not be reporting on what is ttrue whet is real, just on what sound like it'd sell or be cool.
Second, we need to see that (unfortunately) this is what most people think of us. I cannot describe how annoying it is for computer-stupid and technlogy-ignorant people to come up to me and ask me about how to hack this, or do that...just because they saw that that's what people like us do (on TV) when in reality, if they bothered to get some real information, they'd see how skewed their view really is.
It is equally annoying that some people regard our line of work as trivial or unimportant, even dangerous (evil hackers!) especialy after seeing something like the MTV show. Unfortunately that is a widespread general stereotype that cheapens who we are as well as what we do.
I'd personally like to see a program that explores the real *computer geekdom* and portrays us as regular human beings with an interest in technology. Especially in regards to youth, who usually don't get much respect from older people, I'm sure the documentary did not help matters any. As a Web Developer for Millersville University (not responsible for the page design - please no flames - *grin*), I am a youth (19) with a serious computer job, with serious responsiblities, and would like to be treated by others outside the computer community with some degree of professional respect. As it is, I'll probably be viewed as a haX0r due to the way I prefer to dress and what I do.
Anyway, sorry to get off on a tirade like that, but I just wanted to put in my 2 on this issue.
--------------------
kayser_soze
(aka Carlos Noguera)
--------------------
"if it's not one thing.....it's probably not that thing."
Yeah. People won't be able to hack into dogs until IPv6. Then, every Fido can have his own IP address!
After last nights "show" i am seriously thinking of taking my cable out.
Do IT!! tv is a evil tool of the devil brain washing people to think one way. Pawn your tv and give your kid a newpaper, a good book, music, movies, and the internet.
You have smart kids, don't let TV take that from you.
MarNuke
This is way off topic now but...
Whatever happened to listening and/or writing music for fun?
People and record companies aren't telling us what we should listen to just as websites and television aren't telling us what we should see. You listen to what you want to. As for "Summer Girls," I think it is a catchy song that while it does not require an amazing amount of talent to play/sing/press start on a drum machine, it is what LFO likes to do. Who am I to say that this is "bad."
IMHO, the Tom Green song is a good song also. Now from a musical standpoint the song is awful, but it is a song and it is meant, in this case, to be funny.
If you don't like it, don't listen.
I agree that MTV's "journalism" is definitely crap. This show was innaccurate no matter what definition of "hacker" you use. If you use the definition in favor at /., it wasn't even close. Even if you use the more common definition (somebody who breaks into computers), it was incorrect - they had this guy talking about how he downloaded the Matrix online before it came out on DVD. That has nothing to do with hacking of any definition, it's simply movie piracy.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
HACKMAN: The city's in peril! Quickly L33tl4d, to the Hackcave!
L33TL4D: You mean your basement?
HACKMAN: ... Yes.
o/~ da da da da da da da da Hackman! o/~
(log on next week as Hackman battles the mp3ster)
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Reading the comments about this show reminded me of the comment that Jobs made in the recently posted Times interview: He said that in Hollywood engineers are considered second class citizens next to the "creative types"(its reversed in Silicon Valley).
This strikes me as evidence to back up that claim.
-carl cm
But my network is not secure, and It would invite trouble :) Plus my "owners" would kill me... HAHAHA go shopping for electronics [on the] net and you'll see what I mean
Holy Cow, an honest to god troll that isn't an AC!!
Damn, now I'm going to have to give more respect to Anonymous Cowards. . .
Fri 15th @ 7:00pm EST
Sat 16th @ 9:00pm EST
ph33r! MtV 0wNz j00!
www.tvguide.com is so 31337
I have to return some videotapes...
When they drop liquid tv, head banger ball, and 120 minutes, and the daily running of music video from 1 am to 6 pm
At one time there was only show on from 6 to 7 and 120 minutes the a few cool show beyold that
MarNuke
somebody cracked her acount, huh?
try typing you password without caps lock on maybe!?!
the show was a major duh!!! experience.
So you should stop caring too
When they got rid of the moon man. All downhill after that.
In the immortal words of Socrates, who said; 'I drank what?'
Yeh, the strange thing is, I first heard that song as an MP3 I randomly downloaded of ISU's network (Hail ISU's network!!!) and I thought it was kind of intresting. sort of a little 'nostalgic' song. Then I started hearing it everywhere (our "alternative" station just got baught out and turned into a "top 40 crap" station, quite sucked).
Then I saw the MTV video and relized that they were just a bunch of lame white boys pretending to be black. I'm sorry, but that's so fucking lame I mean really. I may be a mass media whore, but I do have some standards...
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Do you really think that MTV would leave in any
material content uttered by LOpht that would make
them look like the cheesy cable channel that they
really are?
I'm sure that LOpht was very explicit on that point and if I wanted to keep MY job at MTV.. I
most certianly would have edited it out.
*shrug*
TV Sux... Cable Sux pond-scum.
I've read more books than I've met people. (That's including off AND on-line folks)
Sad that I prefer the books.
Friends don't let friends buy Compaq's. (Dell/Gateway... same same) You want a good computer? Build it yourself.
Actually a good idea!!
Write up a summary. It can even be pretty long.
Then put it in a chain letter to all the people who were in all the long To: lists from the chain letters you've gotten.
"If you can understand the difference between hackers and crackers, forward this message to 10 people you know. Our automatic email tracking system will record who you forward this list to. If all ten people forward the chain letter, we mail you the secret password to Rob Malda's heart."
You two need to graduate high school first. Christ, sounds like the exact script-kiddies they interviewed for the show. "I'm a rebel, I dye my hair to my school colors... Go Mustangs!!!!"
I haven't found that I prefer either yet - usually, I have found that the onset of vh1-liking occurs some time in the mid-20s. It's a sign of impending fogeydom. :)
-lx
course, i don't really like tv.
The reason that Hackers are portayed by the media the way that they are is because it makes money. The 31337 Hacker d00d image is something that sells really easy. Like Marylin Manson. It shouldn't surprise anyone that angelina jolie (remember good old acid burn?) sells better than linux torvalds? but wait.... I've never seen a picture of the two of them together..... to the /.mobile! This is, of course, how I deal with everything; I blame the news media.
Don't worry, there are plenty of useful Mac scripts out there, for the kiddies to play with.
mochaone:
/.) many Aberrant effects. I think moderators should be chosen intelegently, ie by a human. but then again, it's not my website...
"hates stupid little moderators"
Seroiusly, is it just me or is the entire moderation system broken? I mean would you like to live in a contry where leaders are chosen at random while the net result might be good, there will (and are at
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Try Feria. Yes, it's expensive, but it's great stuff. And it has this really interesting quality of changing colour depending on how bright the light is.
I use their "Chocolate Cherry" colour. My hair is one shade browner than black inside, but as soon as I step out into the Big Blue Room it turns brilliant red.
I can get the same effect by turning on all the fluorescent lights over my desk, which usually remain off.
I don't think they make blue, though.
-Mars
Oh yeah, all nazi punks can fuck off too!
I didn't see the MTV show but I was watching Serena Altshul (sp?) on The View the other day (it was on in my gym, seriously) and I knew from what she said that it wouldn't be accurate. She didn't once mention the word "cracker" although she was refering to them. She also mixed hacking in with spam and the y2k thing. Then she said the best way to get rid of spam was to reply to the sender and tell them to leave you alone, wrong again. When the reporter didn't learn anything, I have doubts about the program. I haven't seen too much of Ms. Altshul recently but I do remember liking her reporting on Channel 1 in high school so I was disappointed to see her stoop to this type of typical MTV reporting. That show would have been an excellent place to get the word out about the difference real hackers like the l0pht guys and lamer script kiddies but instead, they seem to have squandered the opprotunity for the same old sensationalist crap. I guess I didn't really expect any different though.
It was very lame. They had Serena Alchul (sic) doing the documentary. ALthough she is a major babe, she was terrible in this role. About what I expected from MTV.
and I certainly dont thirst for knowledge ;) I am the Anonymous Coward
Well after the show last night I can see why everyone is so paranoid over any activities with the word Hacker thrown in. Look at the idiot from the real world. Seriously were talking about a supposed real life documentary on MTV not Cnet.
Ya like i'd believe me if I was you!
because the word hackers has just been run through the mud way too much. Call us coders, geeks, or whatever, I do NOT want to be in the same group as these guys. I actually thought the Shamrock dude might sort of be half-credible (I still can't believe MTV understood the concept of a phone phreaker) until I found out he was a freakin' drug dealer! And the blue-haired dude was a script kiddie; grandize him all you want, he had script kiddie written all over him. No self-respecting hacker I know (especially with a camera on him/her), when asked to open a Web site, immediately opens Internet Explorer on Windows. I still also find it hard to believe the government didn't prosecute him; it sounded like they had more evidence (he had code to the GPS system, for pete's sake) than in the Kevin Mitnick case, but let's don't go there....
When the guys from L0pht came on, I thought, "great, finally real hackers." But the only reason MTV interviewed them is because they testified before Congress, because the all too short clip with them included stock footage of Mudge telling Senator Fred Thompson that one of them could take out the Internet "with just a few packets."
At least the one dude (what was name? Mantis? the black dude from New York) was actually seen at a *nix CLI of some kind, and he did have The Matrix on DVD (or in some digital form) before it came out (although that would have had a more dramatic impact if the show had been shown *before* The Matrix had been out on DVD and at Blockbuster for two weeks).
Hey, MTV: I know you've heard this a lot the past few years, but you're going to hear it from me, again:
Go back to playing videos.
Yes, it was a publicity stunt to promote their new "online VJ." Only, it went over so badly the whole thing disappeared faster than that Jesse dude that won the contest...
I really like your sig :) Dune Rules! (so does caffeine)
It was called The Maxx. One friday night they showed all the episodes in order. I taped them all and cut out every commercial. Needless to say the tape is heavily insured.
How was my response a "troll"? What do you define as trolling?
Hates people who have stupid little sigs
have two Eterms compiling two things at once in a dark room, while playing stolen mp3's, using free/stolen software, ssh'ed into a stolen shell account over a stolen phone line, long distanced, on a laptop you stole, in a house you shouldn't be in, with a ID you bought for 100 times the going price that works and having a belt around your arm with a needle stuck in it and post on slashdot with lynx.
Then relieze what you are doing.
=)
MarNuke
Wasn't this posted a few days ago on here? or maybe i just saw it somewhere else :)
I tape AMP... I don't have time to search out electronica-related information elsewhere. Although I did find a cool store in SF on Haight street, a selection of 100 most excellent CDs next to Ashbury music center. Of course now I listen to Shoutcast techno channels and contribute to them :).
:-)
:-)
;-). In order for MTV to air a Santana song, they had have someone the audience could associate with in the video. I think that was a right decision. They are also experimenting with rock audience, notice the "Scar Tissue" video. The way I see it, these videos no longer belong on today's neo-pop MTV and the execs believe so.
:-). Nicely done good old parody on the "wrestling" shows.
:-)
Expensive CDs, a lot more than normal ones, but worth it... Besides, what does the $10 difference mean to an employed geek? A lot less than to a typical MTV watches that's for sure.
The shows you've just mentioned are about the only ones that are good. I do occasionally watch "dawn patrol" as I get home at about 6am. Don't remember watching neo-pop at that time.
I am quite certain that if they started airing AMP during day they would get a lot of confused feedback such as "What about feelings? Isn't love the only thing you should sing about?". LOL
Santana went the right route with the video "Smooth". The lead singer of Matchbox20 Rob Thomas, I believe, is an exceptionally talented singer with a unique voice, in my opinion.
Matchbox20 hit the alternative scene hard a couple of years ago and became quite a popular band. So popular in fact, that MTV aired their non-MTV-type songs.
Now tell me how many teenagers today know who Carlos Santana is? And what percentage of them bothers to watch MTV?
If you flip to VH1, you will see that the 70s content (8-track flashback and the like) is now long gone, and it's transitioning to accept people who hate the current MTV.
120 minutes is a very nice show as well. But would they show it during prime time? No way! Premium advertising is reserved for mainstream.. and today mainstream is rap, r&b, and neo-pop.
Celebrity Deathmatch is simply fun to watch
Before I get disqualified due to age, I am 19 and I dislike MTV
--
Leonid S. Knyshov
Network Administrator
Leonid S. Knyshov
Find me on Quora
Really, watching "The Real World" (which is anything but) makes me sick. MTV is all about money, and therefore all about hype.
And, therefore, sensationalized opinions about "hackers" that portray them as "dangerous" and "exciting," which bring the all-important "ratings." Let the little twinks follow JP.
"We apologize for the inconvenience."
When i read the above post, I literaly burst out laughing. that dosn't happen much when I'm infront of of a computer screen (in the absance of the social effect of laughter)
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
TRUE LIFE: I'm a Poser!!!!
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falsities is a word:
Falsity \Fal"si*ty\, n.;pl. Falsities. [L. falsitas: cf. F. fausset['e], OF. also, falsit['e]. See False, a.] 1. The quality of being false; coutrariety or want of conformity to truth.
Probability does not make any alteration, either in the truth or falsity of things. --South.
2. That which is false; falsehood; a lie; a false assertion.
Men often swallow falsities for truths. --Sir T. Brown.
Syn: Falsehood; lie; deceit.
Usage: Falsity, Falsehood, Lie. Falsity denotes the state or quality of being false. A falsehood is a false declaration designedly made. A lie is a gross, unblushing falsehood. The falsity of a person's assertion may be proved by the evidence of others and thus the charge of falsehood be fastened upon him.
and it was the Sci-Fi channel that did the fake blair-witch thing, not discovery
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Granted, HTML doesn't contain case or iteration constructs that define true programming languages, but godamn, you can still use it to get things done.
HTML isn't a programming language, it's a markup language. By your definition, any document that contains information on position, size, font, and color for its content is a programming language.
You're right, HTML does get the job done. But can you use HTML to do anything besides define the static appearance of a document and how it relates to other documents? No, that's not its job, that's the job of a programming language. (Remember, JavaScript != HTML)
Regarding the parallel thread calling your post a troll, i'd have to agree. But i won't waste time arguing about it, since anything i say will not serve to change your mind.
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perl -e'$_=shift;die eval' '"$^X $0\047\$_=shift;die eval\047 \047$_\047"' at -e line 1.
I am trying to figure out just when it was that MTV really started to suck.
Everyone will say it happened when they stopped playing music videos... but when did that happen? My memory has begun to fade on me, but I really do remember enjoying MTV at some point!
It was pretty bad well before Singled Out ever came along.
How many people were shocked at themselves when they started prefering VH1 to MTV!?
It isn't really that deep. People can only form perceptions about what they are exposed to. There are many, many more articles and programs that get the term wrong than get it right. As a result, the meaning becomes more established as a pejorative.
Call it linguistic evolution or call it a corruption of the truth. Either way society at large believes it.
That's why my card says Magician.
rw2
well, some of the later seasons have really started to suck. Futurama, on the other hand, is undeniably cool :)
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Labeling what you do as "trolling" would denote some intelligence on your part. You're obviously a clueless idiot. Anyone who manages to get posts moderated down to 0 on a regular basis are unlikely to be anything else. Take me, for example.. at one point I was posting an average of 50 comments every 2 fucking days .. If general concensus agreed with your views, I'd be moderated down like all hell. I think I've gotten a total of maybe 1 or 2 (if any) posts down to a score of 0. I guess not everything I say is pointless garbage?
You also fail to notice something else: I'm rather thick-skinned, and I have a lot of time on my hands. Your feeble attempts to "hurt my feelings" are laughable at best, and only serve to prove with damning certainty your lack of intelligence. If I bore you so much, ignore me you fool. Don't post replies to my comments. Don't read my comments. My name is clearly pasted right along the top of everything I write. You rarely, if ever, have anything of interest whatsoever to add to the conversation, and even more rarely have any grasp on the topics at hand. You do, however, seem to enjoy little "feel-good" sessions whenever someone attacks my comments. Too bad most such attacks are completely unfounded (much like your own.. and if you mean "join everyone else" as in "sink down to the intelligence level of mochaone".. I'd prefer not to get a lobotomy, thanks, and fewer people on Slashdot are as stupid as you (seem to think)). Why don't you grow up?
And people wonder why others think kill files on Slashdot would be a good idea.. ;)
~ Kish
A cracker IS a hacker. A hacker of the sad side but anyway one of us.
Sincerly I think that some people are making a damn confusion about hackers. Nearly ten years ago we knew that we had already a clear division between "white", "black" and "grey" hackers. And among it we had another miriad of groups and subgroups.
"Hacker" is a computer fanatic. Not matter is "angelic" or "demonic" intentions. No matter he loves to roam the Net or sit hours on a isolated computer. His motto "to know". His objective "Think!". His law - "information should be free".
Everything else is hype...
For those "wannabeahacker" a warning:
Think if you really don't wanna play with anything else. Being a hacker is not romance. It's just life and frequently not a easy one.
"some bastard hacked my web site!!"
"this function's a bit of a hack, but it works"
both equally valid. hack has dual meaning depending on it's context. give it a rest people.
Britany Spears is hot, and Britany Spears is also a pretty entertaining self parody, if you think about it. I have an MP3 of 'hers' called I was born to make you happy. I think there's one called E-mail love. Of course the music is barely listen able, but that in no way reduces the humor value...
br>
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
L0pht had the ear of a journalist (okay, that's debatable, but go with me) and apparently didn't even bother to emphasize how horribly the media continues to mangle the term "hacker". I personally expected better. Not from MTV, of course, but from the "community", L0pht especially. Not to mention the people they profiled aren't worthy of even the term "cracker", they're just script-kiddie web-page defacers. Serena repeated several times how these kids had broken into "some of the defense department's most secure computers". Which computers? their web servers! If those are their most secure computers, we're all fucked.
Grumble.
FreakHo
ps- and jaypee's little performance was scraping the barrel of publicity-mongering, but a fish has gotta swim.
Sorry but this comes accross as flamebait..
I'm not sure why MTV chose the moon flag logo in their early days, but I think maybe it was because they thought of themselves as pioneering spirits, like the first astronauts. But after Challenger, they decided it wasn't cool any more (sort of like similar moves by networks after Columbine, they didn't care about those kids, they just cared about presenting a homogonized message while attempting to appear hip and rebellious), the channel never really got a new symbol, except for their initials (MTV).
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
I hate to make generalizations, but everything on Television is fake, not real, untruthitudes, falsities (yes I know these last two aren't words, heh). I only ever had faith in one television programming station, the Discovery Channel. That was until they made that fake Blair Witch Documentary (or was is sci-fi?) anyway..., cable boxes should come with disclaimers saying that everything on here is a half witted attempt to cater to the least intelligent people, cause they make up 99% of the worlds population. Also... MTV is (or was) Music Television. Why are they doing stories about h(cr)ackers? I read the post a while back when they announced it, and it didn't affect me at all. Because I don't watch television (much), and I especially don't watch teenybopper nonsense like MTV. The culture of the world is going downhill.
I watched about 10 minutes before I screamed and threw my cup of tea at the TV. But I happened to notice the great ammount of windows screenshots they happened to get. Made me feel kinda safe about my box.
Your mouse has moved. Windows NT must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? [ OK ]
I'm not trying to be an techno snob here but maybe it's better if the MTV flock of sheep is misinformed. I mean do we realy want these people trying there hand in something they shouldn't? Let MTV tell them half truths and propoganda, in the long run it's better that way. They are the same people who think Trent Reznor created Industrial music & that the "Real World" is any thing like the real world. Just keep feeding the sheep and let those of us with brains continue thinking.
Anybody here see the Ameritrade, I think, commercial with the kid who's supposedly the hacker at work? They have a new one now where he's even more krad w/ a wilder hairstyle and off-beat behavior - walks into the pool on his way to breakfast al fresco w/ his grilfriend's parents. He then goes on to extoll his desire to shake money out of Wall Street via on-line trading. (His gf's dad is a broker.)
Heh, I thought that guy was a crackHEAD, not a CrackER...
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
I unfortunately watched the program. I got what I was looking for (cheap laughs) though it still left a bad taste in my oral cavity. The best part was one of the scenes in some kids room.
Director: We want to get a shot of you doing
impressive. You know, lots of computer
code and stuff on the screen.
Kid: Um, okay. (types ps a)
Maybe I'm the only one that found this humorous.
Maybe you'll return to Minagua, You could go unnoticed in such a place. -FZ
(http://www.l0pht.com)
/. is what they had in mind.
"L0pht to be on MTV's True Life: I'm A Hacker
10.10.1999
On October 13th at 10 pm MTV will debut True Life: I'm a Hacker reported by MTV's Serena Altschul. Although most of this show will feature young hoodlums who get their kicks from breaking into other people's systems, the L0pht is also interviewed showing the more productive side of hacking."
I'm guessing MTV wasn't really interested in the productive side of hacking. The MTV press release (http://www.l0pht.com/misc/hackerrel.html) mentions it in only one sentence: "Finally, the show examines a more productive side of hacking, visiting The L0pht, a group of Boston hackers who develop security software for major companies, and act as advisors to the U.S. Government on how they can maximize security mechanisms on their own systems."
An exerp from elsewhere in the press release:
"Venturing into the inner-most sanctums of this cyber subculture, 'True Life: I'm a Hacker' explores how hackers communicate with one another and where they learn the tricks of the trade."
Hackers have inner-most sanctums? Boy, am I missing out...
Quoting one of their subjects: "It's like being God."
Geez, and here I am wasting my time sitting in a cubicle gaining weight when I could be Godlike, just because I know what int main(int argc, char *argv[]) means.
"Through on-line chats and talk shows cybercast to thousands of their peers worldwide, many young hackers, who otherwise would have simply blended in, have an opportunity to achieve major levels of recognition and adulation."
I wonder if
The spelling of "l0pht" (read:loft) was chosen because it is humourous.
So, Mr. IHaveNoContentButWillPostAnyway, have you actually ever gone to L0pht Heavy Industries' web site and taken a good look at their advisories?
Once you go and take that first look of yours, come back and answer me this: what good have you done for the on-line community lately?
Although it is little more than regurgigation of what has been posted here already, remember that those tied to conventional media have no love for the "New Alternative" media (sorry, I know most of us have been here for a while.. but ya know). Anyway, if MTV had wanted to accuratly portray hacking / phreaking / social engenering (sp) they would have put it on their web page. They can't portray hackers in a positive light on the TV, or else they might allay some peoples suspicions about the internet, and loose viewers ! ! and we all know just what a problem that could be.
When I grow up, I'll be stable
What quality programming do they have @ MTV?? Oh, I forgot that Road Rules and The REAL world were both picture perfect representations of the average joe blow under 25 in society today.. So then if most of what they present is directed towards the shallow, WHY would we even expect them to host a true life "so called" DOCUMENTARY on hacker d00ds?? I for one did not watch it, but I knew it would suck because the people at MTV suck. Media hype,repetative crappy music, teen idols and los o' bs.. That is MTV in a nutshell.
I am not very worried about these shows on MTV because the only people who watched it are so dumb they either don't get enough computer time from their mommy's a day to craxor that gibson, or they will telnet to nsa.gov and get arrested for crackerjacking the super elite passwd file. I kinda wanna thank MTV for accelerating(sp) the process of natural selection.
nt
I love the name of MTV's shows. True Life? This show was not true life. It was just a bunch of script kiddie crackers (I wish someone would use these terms correctly), and MTV made them out to look like the notorious underground l0pht or something. It was basically a joke. It was as true life as the Real World is the real world.
You're right, you don't have the power to change my mind. Especially when you've wasted your time with that comment.
HTML allows peole to communicate. If Joe Shmoe half way around the world wants to leave his diary for the world to see, all he needs is HTML. He doesn't need C. He doesn't need Perl.
But I gather you don't find communication important. No, you believe everything has to be teched the hell out. Get over yourself buddy.
Hates people who have stupid little sigs
Sorry but if this comes accross as flamebait..
I sat down last night with my kids and watched that "show"...
To be honest, I know many people that fall into the catagory of hacker, my children tell me that they want to be hackers when they grow up.
That "Show" was not about hackers.
That was an attempt by MTV to capitalize not only on FUD, but it was a poor excuse for journalism. I am will to say that 95%+ of all hackers do not have blue hair(at least the ones I know), or stand out in anyway. Most of us are more concerned with being able to do our own thing, and learning as much as we can along the way.
My 4 year old daughter summed it up best, after watching the show, she started shaking her head and asked me "Daddy, they aren't like anybody we know", I told her that there were all kinds of hackers in the world, all she could say was the ones on the show were "not real hackers, they were dumb hackers"
(I have very bright children, so this is not added to in anyway)
After last nights "show" i am seriously thinking of taking my cable out.
I could call a desk a chair, the floor the ceiling, you a person with better things to do with his/her time instead of whining about someone 'misusing' a term. Conventional thinking would state the above three examples to be incorrect. However, who could truly care when one know's what the hell I'm referring to. Any reference to HACKER by the media nearly always implies what it always has: mindless canned hack ingrates who, nothing short of a miracle, managed to install Linux and figured out a `gcc -o hax0r eye_be_eleet.c` in order to 'br1ng d0wn the syst3m y0'.
The bottom line is, don't get your panties in a ruffle because the media called what you consider a hacker, a cracker. There are very few people watching who could give a flying fsck (heheheh, I made a neat unix joke!!!) about the accuracy of such a portrayel. After all, they're MTV tools.
MTV may have once been something interesting, and bringing us interesting things that we couldn't find elsewhere--
Ren & Stimpy, Remote Control, stuff like that.
They had a few good shows, and they were smart enough to spin Ha! off on its own channel (which combined with Comedy Central to form The Comedy Channel). There were funny bits, with Randy of the Redwoods running for president, but it was something to go along with the music, not as a replacement for the music.
Of course, then, in about '93 or so, that music included Mr. Big, (who I do believe was the son of some MTV exec), and about that point, people began to see that the music on MTV really wasn't that good. Metallica had sold out, and produced video after video, and things started turning into the popularity concerts like the student Goverment elections in high school, and had nothing to do with how good a song was.
With the type of crap MTV was playing, I'm almost glad they stopped playing music, but it's a shame that they also stopped producing good shows.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Jeez, a little touchy, aren't we? It was funny.
Hello! I am Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die
was #34 :(
Glückwünsche, haben Sie Slashdot ermordet, indem Sie zum korporativen Druck beugten und Subskriptionen einlei
When they were showing these 3l33t h@x0r d00dz were they using mainstream (OSes Windows/Mac) or were they using *NIX/BeOS/etc etc etc.
Sorry for posting off-topic... But I jsut had to know :)
Objects in the blog are closer then they ap
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perl -e'$_=shift;die eval' '"$^X $0\047\$_=shift;die eval\047 \047$_\047"' at -e line 1.
pnm://www.plus8.com/mcdade/imahackr.rm
Not commenting on content, just want the information to be available.
-b
It's at dual isdn quality, anything less looks like crap and not worth viewing. I was too lazy to even remove the comercials or make any sort of links to it, so point that g2 player to :
pnm://www.plus8.com/mcdade/imahackr.rm
and enjoy!
-b
* wonder if this will slashdot effect my provider..*
Currently my hair is going prematurely grey (I'm 23) and I happen to think it looks pretty interesting that way (I'm male, I probably wouldn't think so if I were female).
what would be really nice is if one of the kids who watched this went out and actually did some damage. Then tipper gore can go after MTV like they did Quake.
i work in the media. we cover things to inform the viewers/listeners. many times we are also informing ourselves as we go along. how many people at MTV actually know what a real 'hacker' is? MTV probably did some background research, saw some w@r3z d00dz page, and assumed that whatever bullshit story was on there was typical of the hacker community. so it was a self-fulfilling prophecy. they found someone who told them what they expected to hear. all because they wanted to do a story on what they found interesting. the media does not have a conspiracy to exploit and destroy the next big thing, although it seems that way. it's about money, which comes from commercial revenue, which comes from the amount of viewers, which comes from having interesting shows. interesting shows=more money. they're not trying to get every dumbfuck on the street to become a 'hacker'. they don't care about you. they want money. some tweaker fools MTV. wow. he sure proved he was a man. people like him piss me off. if you are doing a story, you assume everything is true unless you have reasons otherwise. MTV had no reasons to not believe him. why shouldn't they trust him? fucking asshole. people like him give 'hackers' and the younger generation a bad name.
Are there really people out there like this?
Seriously. I've never met anyone who acted like the people on MTV yet new enough about computers for me to consider them a hacker (or a cracker for that matter). In fact, those few people I would consider elite were humble, almost shy, and very stable. Close to the guy on last night's show who supposedly broke into NASA.
The mediocre types and wanabes always seem to think they know more than they do and are invariably arrogant little bastards, but even they don't fit the MTV, and the main-stream media stereotype. So, have I been missing something? Are there really hackers that fit the mold we see on TV??
I watched the special on MTV with an open mind. I tried not to laugh over what was said and what was done. All - in - all the special really was a overdripping pile of suggy suds. I wish MTV would lay off the overdramatization of issues/situations that are going on in our everyday world.
I was part of a hacking/phreak team for a good amount of time. It was never about "OOOH...I got to get in there...I got to steal some stuff...." or "Yeah..I swipe video stream etc etc..." I really enjoyed the > whole "got to get that disk scene."
I am not trying to say that these guys are bad or evil, but something needs to be said about who hackers and phreakers really are. My friends and I were always going down to Radio * to buy transistors and such to phreak. It wasn't about I am going to charge someone a lot of money. We looked to see how electronics operated. It was also the same thing for us about hacking. We wanted to know why file hierarchies were set up. We wanted to know the truth about things, but it didn't mean going into someone's personal station in life.
Be realistic. We need to be informed. It is just a shame that the world as we know holds back from us because they always feel threatened from up above.
I don't hack anymore. I have had my time inthis moment ofmy life. I am 22 and I am way by far more interested in BEAM and Linux. Hacking for me has turned into something different. It has metamorphized into the challenge,finding ways to solve solutions. I look for reason behind the riddle. I am not necessarily looking for the entire riddle. I am taking it a piece at time.
You may say that is hacking. Hacking to me was about finding the solution from other people. I have realized that I have to find the solutions on my own.
Well lots of love to you guys who still pursue the knowledge of life and its inner stuff. I happy sitting on me bum in front of my puter tooling around with mr. tux and a big big bottle of Cherry Bomb JOlt!
1010100101010 Love ya Linux People & Slashdot folk!
Programmer
Also, that whole find-a-disk-that-could-get-a-friend-in-jail theme sounded awfully familiar... is anyone else reminded of something? :P
--
I doubt such a ploy would work. (And I realize it was intended as a joke, buttt... this is a sore spot.)
Consider this: (experience may differ)
Of all the Fwd: messages I get, most of them are riddled with >>>> and have more header content than message content. Besides that, many of them are exceedingly absurd.
For instance, I recently recieved a hillarious forward saying that M$ and AOL were the biggest net companies, and in order to ensure that they were top in the market, they needed you to forward the stupid message. For every person you forwarded the thing to, Bill gates would *personally* send you an absurd amount of money - something like 20.54 dollars.
Now, nobody in their right mind would read it and believe it. Let alone forward it. (Unless they forwarded it as a joke.)
My point in all this being, nobody reads the darn things. They just click forward. Just like how people on the ICQ network generally don't check to validify the "forward or be deleted" stuff. Deft drones is all they seem to be.
The people who make these things obviously have a sence of humor. They send this stuff out, trying to see how many people will forward, etc, for the mere sake of humor and pulling the wool over people's eyes.
From what I can tell, these same people are the '3133t3 d00dz'. All this kind of activity does is slow down network connections. I've community college T1's bogged down to a crawl with such crap - AOL and ICQ forwards.
Not to condemn this stuff completely, it is funny from a non-involvant possition. It's just pathetic, is all.
Offtopic, sorry. :)
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CAIMLAS
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Being the "haX0r" or "computer geek" at the party, when ever I break out the laptop to play mp3's everybody start saying "hack the FBI!" "crack some software for me" "break into my school and change my grades." I just wish once I would hear from someone something like "make this program run the way i want it to" or "help me secure my computer from evil people". It really bugs me. I have morals. I wouldn't steal from someone, trash someone's house, distroy what ever, turn off their power in real life just becuase I CAN, why would I do that in "cyber space"?
I believe it's really about the corruption in the world. People have to be good people in real life, just to get by, but when they get online it doesn't matter what they do. There's no big blue. They can do what they want and feel like a god when they DoS attack some lame server. Or setup a firewall that deny everything coming in with no services running and feel unstopable. Feeling powerful and unstopable is what people want to feel like. What is so great about spending 20 hours reading and writing code?!?! Nothing.
Thus, you will see what hacker really are in the news.
Of course hacker have nose rings, wear all black, listen to electrica, and are outcast of the world.
umm...
yeah...
MarNuke
Graduate high school?
Did that, 6 out of 400. (and ~550 freshman class...gotta love the dropout rates in DC suburbs). I graduated college too, cum laude with an engineering degree, while sleeping through class and working 20-25hrs/week at a paying job, and some misc. time on the school's solar car team.
I sure as hell don't dye my hair to show school spirit, as I don't have any. I just had to be annoying when graduating on the Ellipse on the Mall in DC.
Now, what you need to do is to stop hiding behind that 'anonymous coward'.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
I am amazed. How can any of you even consider watching that? What would you expect from a television station that provides you with this prefabficated crap. From the station that brought you "The Real World" you expect this simple reporter to go into any depth about "hacking"? I dont. These people know their music, and thats about all. Thats what they should stick to.
At the risk of creating a stereotype, I would like to think that the individuals who frequent Slasdot are usually very intelligent, well spoken people. We thirst for knowledge of any kind, and strive to teach the "masses" about our culture and tear down as many pre-conceived notions as possible. Then, when something like this comes up very little gets done (if you don't count complaining here on slashdot). I'm not trying to start a flame war, I actually have a suggestion. With as many great minds as there are visiting this site, couldn't we get together and write some sort of treatise for the masses in general explaining the differences between crackers and hackers, and essentially address the fears and misinformation that make our lives so much more difficult than need be sometimes? We write things like the jargon file, and there are a million "how to be a hacker" faqs, but none of these address the non-technical people that really need the education.
Knowing MTv like I do, they will be rebroadcasting the show 10 or 20 times in the next month. Does anyone know when this will be?
I understand that it's a poor show, but I would like to know what they did wrong so that I can enlighten my mis-educated friends that actaully did see it. Can't really do that, if I don't know what went down...
"You want to kiss the sky? Better learn how to kneel." - U2
"It was like trying to herd cats..." - Robert A. Heinlein
Sig:
Barbeque is a noun. Not a verb.
Oh, come one, people. We're getting agitated by MTV? Have you forgotten how much they suck anyway? Congratulations on giving them free publicity. That channel ought to either go back to the earlier, decent format, or pass on the reigns to someone else. It's time for the big pink video elephant to lay down and die.
We're all already dead, we're just waiting for the Government to tell us it's okay to be buried.
...hot girls in skimpy bathing suits. Be honest, this is the only reason to watch it in the first place.
This is how the media portrays hackers. As much as we should expect the media to dig a little deeper and get a grasp on the issues, they won't. To even try means to add a slant to the issue.
/.ers will just have to learn to cope. A cracker will always be called a hacker. The media will always have a slant on real life.
Just like /.ers do. :P
I know this is probably a longshot, but did anyone happen to score like a realplayer or mpg of it? I'd just like to see what these script kiddies were actually doing, god knows they weren't hacking.
yeah, there's some of us whose hair strips to yellow, so when we try to dye it blue, it turns green. And who really wants green hair?
(so, unfortunately, I've been sticking with red, however, the good news is that Manic Panic 'Flaming' doesn't look as bright under flourescent lighting, so those of us who work under poor lighting conditions in basements can get away with unusual hair.)
Well, I don't dye all of my hair, either, as I have a *cough* respectable job, nor do I consider myself a 'cracker', (It's much easier to trick someone into giving you access, if you really want it, anyway). Anyway, as to the hair, for those of you with long hair, if you tie up the hair on top, and only dye the hair on the back of your head, depending on how you tie back your hair, you can achieve normal-ish (brown, in my case), abnormal (the blue & orange stripes to match my school's graduation colors), or you can braid it for some interesting effects.
(okay, this started out as offtopic, edged towards funny there for a second, and then went to informative (yet off topic) for those who are trying to get away with dying their hair...end result--- no one probably cares enough about this post to moderate it, which is probably a good thing)
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Almost every TV portrayal of hacking that exists is poor, because they are created by people who are computer illiterate.
Most of them show some guy trying to telnet into a dog (firehydrant | toaster | the neighbors car) and have little basis on reality.
Quite similar to the hype about Y2K.
I saw this show last night, simply for entertainment purposes. I knew when this story was originally posted on /. that there would be a large response to it, so I decided that I would have to see what would elict such a response for myself. Last night was likely the last time that I watch cable for a long time. That program was not only poor journalism, it was one of the largest pieces of FUD and misconception on Earth.
One piece that sticks out in my mind was when some of the "hackers" were doing a webcast for some 31337 h4x0rz, and they got an email from an AOLer. This guy said "I want to know how to get passwords," and the hosts, 31337 as they were, responded that "Man, this is some pretty heavy stuff, and I see that you're someone from AOL. This is not something that you get into when you're such a newbie " That single statement proved what a bunch of (at the risk of this sounding like flamebait) posing wannabes with only slight skills they were... Hacking is about creating, not stealing. But I won't get into the jargon, as I'm sure that everyone here knows about it already.
And then everyone was using Windows 95, except for some guy named "Mantis," who had root on some (probably his own) Linux box.
Although I do have to say that seeing l0pht was cool.
-- K
MTV2 comes on my DirecTV, and every time I've gone through the guide they're showing music videos.
If there wasn't so much marketing power behind the name "MTV", I would suggest they drop that moniker altogether and start calling themselves something else, since they really don't do much with music anymore.
when may we expect /. to feature music videos?
1. Most slashdot readers do not agree on anything
2. Not everyone who reads slashdot is well spoken and intelligent. (ie. AC posts)
3. You can't tell someone how to be a hacker. Its all about learning for yourself. Making judgements based on logic, and sometimes no logic whatsoever. (p.s. I'm not a hacker, I don't claim to be a hacker, I just know what a hacker isn't)
The only thing slashdot could acutally do is raise awareness that this crap on MTV isn't real.
There is an essay by Merrill Markoe called "Head Full of Bees" which is about how bad television is. Sounds like a lot of you will love reading it. No idea where to find it though (I had to read it for a class).
MTV and cable sucks anyways.
It was sad, really it was (not like I was expecting anything besides that, but it was still better than the video music award reruns). I sat there and laughed at it with some non-nerd friends, even. One girl kept saying "ooh look at that badass dressed up like a fratboy!" And yes, I must agree...how many 'hackers' do you know that actually get dressed anyways? All MTV did was glorify the few posers they could find that'd go on tv and didn't look too much like losers (how many pimply-faced youths did they show anyways? none.) and who bathed regularly. If they want want a real view of hackers they should hang out in one of my compsci classes and see if any of those guys will know how to respond when they have a camera in their face. MTV wasted my time but it at least gave me something to laugh at...
ps I really found it funny that the one kid there at the end was sitting in front of his windows box showing 'The Matrix' on his computer. Ooh. What a badass. VCDs and MPEGS are _oh_so_hard_to_find. sheesh.
LDAA #$80 BITA 0x40 BNE END
At least that is when it was for me. Girls in bikini's at the cost of content is only appealing for so long. MTV left me with puberty at 20.
Is this story seriously intended to be news? Or is it just a an opportunity for /.'s who saw the show to vent their spleen about how "nobody understands them"?
I didn't see the show (I wouldn't watch MTV if you paid me) and have no doubt, I'm sure the show was awful. But what did you expect--"All Things Considered"?
---
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
Anti-Online has posted an artical applauding, MTV for their excellent, and accurate portral of what "real hackers" are like.
:P
LINK
Well not really but its said there isnt any kind of post regarding it.
I wonder if the MTV execs know that they're evil and manipulative? Or maybe they actually mean well, and it all just falls to pieces, like a romantic comedy. Or maybe they're not actually human at all (in the Socratic sense), and are merely intelligent animals with no sense of moral value.
Jeez, either way I end up wetting myself from fear of the media.
------------------------
"Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and
MTV Sucks.
If MTV wants to perpetuate a false sterotype, so be it. I'm pretty sure everyone who watches their shows falls into one of two categories
1) Those who know better.
2) Those who will learn.
I don't care what they're covering, they almost always get it wrong. Even their music interviews usually show a skewed version of the artist.
I think this was a production of their news section, so you can mail mtvdart@aol.com with your comments. Of course, this may also fall under the umbrella of "shows", so you might want to use this page to send your feedback. I'm pretty sure the former is the case, however.
FreakHo
I'd say something on my own behalf, but I remembered a (somewhat) fitting quote from the Jargon File:
The last part of that quote is key. Why doesn't anyone really bother? It's a waste of time. Eventually the media will get it (maybe), but certainly not any time soon. Remember, some newspapers still think that HTML is a programming language..
As far as references to Slashdotters go.. A lot of Slashdotters have objected to the proper use of the term hacker, and often tell everyone to "just shut up about it".. I'd imagine that most actual hackers don't have any interest in it, most crackers call themselves hackers anyway so they probably think that the media is correct, script kiddies would certainly rather be called crackers or hackers, and most people who actually know the differences between all of these terms don't really find much interest in it either.
If anyone is that excited about it, register a domain name (that makes sense for this purpose) and write all sorts of "hacker != cracker" propaganda, then feed the links to as many "media types" and "geek sites" (like Slashdot), and maybe something will happen. I kind of doubt it, and I for one have other, more productive ways to waste my time (at least AFAIC =P).
~ Kish
Well, I saw the show today (Thursday Oct 14 99). MTV re-aired it about noon EDT. Just so you all are more informed when you post about it, here's a synopsis/review of the show.
It centered around three self-proclaimed "hackers": Shamrock, Chameleon, and Mantis.
Shamrock told Serena Altschul (anyone remember her from Channel One?) that he was a "phone phreaker." One of the first shots of him in action was when he was talking on a payphone and had a cell phone laying on top of it. During the course of the program, one of his friends was arrested, and he and Serena had to make it to this guy's apartment to get a disk before the police got to it. Shamrock refused to tell what was on the disk, and while he and a friend left Serena on the street she commented to the camera that this was the most exciting news lead she had ever been on. I found that interesting. At least Shamrock carried around a scanner for police frequencies. That's kind of hacker-like, I guess. Oh, and he also sells pot, has a criminal record, and got into hacking to change his grades.
The next guy was Chameleon, who had blue hair. His strength was breaking into military systems. He alluded to cracking NASA and DOJ websites, but never really said it out right. A guy from AntiOnline told MTV all about Chameleon's downfall. Apparently he was alright poking around, until he started downloading the programs that control satellites. The FBI raided his house, arrested him, but didn't put him in jail. Instead, he has a job writing code to keep hackers out now. Near the end of the show, they showed him at Comdex in Las Vegas. It didn't have anything to do with anything.
The third guy, Mantis, was interesting. He's a host of the radio show Parse (with some other guys and a GIRL! Yay hacker girls!). He told Serena that he's not the stereotypical hacker at all. I've never seen a hacker in a necktie, so I guess he must be right. He talked a lot more about the culture than anything (Mantis was the source of most of the misinformation on the show).
I think the worst part of the show was how they didn't talk about any of the equipment/OS used. Ok, so it wasn't really catered to us geeks, but it wouldn't have been that hard to say as a sideline "And by the way, none of these hackers use Windows or AOL." The L0pht was interviewed too. They talked about "good hacking" like Mantis, but then Shamrock said that everyone's good and bad, that there are no good or bad, so that's the image Serena ended on. That all hacking is bad. It reminded me of all the DOJ kids anti-hacking pages.
I think MTV could have done more with it. Someone should make a series on good hackers and the hacker culture.
They support the "Tune in, turn off" initiative. The shows aren't that bad if you don't think about them. Thats what they want, and thats how they've trained many poor losers. Bah.
Fun fun fun in the fluffy chair Flame up the herb wolf down the beer
-(click)-
Hi! I'm your video DJ! I talk like I'm always wigged out on quaaludes! I wear a satin baseball jacket everywhere I go! My job is to help destroy what's left of your imagination by feeding you endless doses of sugar coated mindless knowledge. So don't create, be sedate! Be a vegetable at home and thwack on that dial! If we have our way you'll believe that this is the future of rock n roll!!!
***MTV GET OFF THE AIR!!!***
How far will you go? Haw low will you stoop? To tranquilize our minds with your sugar coated swill. You've turned the rock revolution into Pat Boone sedation making sure there's nothing left up to the imagination MTV GET OFF THE MTV GET OFF THE MTV GET OFF THE AIR GET OFF THE AIR See the latest rejects from the muppet show wags their tits and their dicks as they lip-sync on screen. There's something I don't like about a band that always smiles. Another tax writerff for some schmuck that doesn't care MTV GET OFF THE AIR And so it was our beloved corporate gods claimed they created rock video, allowing it to sink as far in one year as commercial TV has in 25. "It's the new frontier," they say, "It's wide open, anything can happen." But you've got a lot of nerve to call yourself a pioneer when you're too god damned conservative to take REAL chances. Tin-eared graph-paper brained accountants instead of music fans. Call all the shots at giant record companies now, the lowest common denominator rules. Forget honesty honesty, forget creativity, the dumbest by the mostest that's the name of the game! But sales are slumping and no one will say why, could it be thay put out more too many lousy records?!? MTV GET OFF THE AIR - - NOW!!!
If they're so into the geek hacker scene why don't they read Slashdot and defend themselves?
If you think you know what the hell is really going on you're probably full of shit.
If you think you know what the hell is really going on you're probably full of shit.
jdube is who I am.
right?
"when ever I break out the laptop to play mp3's"
:)
-- perl -e'print pack"H*","6e656d6f406d38792e6f7267"'
The problem:
The sad part about it is that many people are computer illiterate. For gods sake i had to help my friend install AOL Instant messenger, and when he was finished he held his hands up into the air and chanted, "I am the hacker God!".
Explanation of the problem:
This is not to say that my friend meant it, or that he even wanted to be that type of person, but rather it shows a typical way that people view these so-called hackers.
Enter in a source of money:
I am willing to bet that the majority of people, especially those that watch MTV or TV in general are as misinformed as my friend.
Finish up proof:
Therefore it can be expected that television is going to appeal to these types of people, thus createing MTV's hacker show.
Yeah, I think you're right. But at my box at home ps complains when I use '-'. Either way, the fact that this is what he chose to do either indicates a semi-subversive/sardonic sense of humor, or that he is truly clueless. (Now I'll really get my props when I show them that I got Linux on my laptop. Now everyone will know what a 1ee7 d00d I am!)
Maybe you'll return to Minagua, You could go unnoticed in such a place. -FZ
Ouch....
Maybe you'll return to Minagua, You could go unnoticed in such a place. -FZ
Anybody here see the Ameritrade, I think, commercial with the kid who's supposedly the hacker at work? They have a new one now where he's even more krad w/ a wilder hairstyle and off-beat behavior - walks into the pool on his way to breakfast al fresco w/ his grilfriend's parents. He then goes on to extoll his desire to shake money out of Wall Street via on-line trading. (His gf's dad is a broker.)
Sort of lame, but I'm wondering if this and the MTV thing is a new marketing thingy where haxor d00dz are now viable sales vehicles?
"shop smart:shop s-mart" ash
Some of this seems from the movie Hackers. I sure hope im not the only one that noticed the disk thing. Seem liked it was riped right out of the movie.
The Simpsons still rock! -Fynd
That's what I said.......Mead's fine bread.
I wonder how many messages to MTVdart@aol.com it would take to get the message across.... I'm not saying to do it, but I'm not saying not to, either....
We're all already dead, we're just waiting for the Government to tell us it's okay to be buried.
Didn't MTV fake hack there own website for attention or something like that..
There was a comment regarding the fact that no one has any real database regarding technology in a non-technical, "hey, we're not evil hax0r bois!" kind of light. Mebbe someone needs to go lookit www.tdyc.com. :)
:P
:)
if we could beat up 'normal' (aka non-geek) people into checking out stuff they can understand (i.e. stuff that can and does aid them in their everyday life) maybe people wouldn't give me funny looks when i ask awkward questions like "have you seen my scrimpers?" or demand "ack! don't touch my dongle!"
Catering to the MTV generation isn't something I care about. Teeniebopping BSBers don't particularly concern me.. but when parents start watching "specials" like True Life: I'm a hacker.. how are they going to react in terms of allowing their kids access to technology? And yeah.. some parents really ARE ignorant enough to believe something MTV says.
harblies.
tried to save myself but myself keeps slipping away.
Well, I watched it, and it was probably the most pathetic [funny] thing I've ever seen in my life. :) Here's a quote from the uber-31337 h4x0r Mantis:
:D
I'm gonna kickban your LAN because I can.
WOAH D00D, W3 H4D B3TT3R W4TCH 0UT F0R D4 P1NG 0F D34TH FR0M TH4T D00D!! 1'M 4LR34DY L04D1NG UP MY F1R3W4LL! ()#@*&)#
I'm going to be keeping the tape for the rest of my life. That show is a classic.
emufreak
www.kontek.net/pp
I didn't see the show, I rarely watch TV anyway, I find even the most pointless discussions on /. more interesting. However today in school ( a networking class in tech school, which would make you assume the people in it are moderatly computer literate, which is wrong ), where it is known that I'm a geek and a coder, one guy said to me, 'You're a hacker, aren't you? I saw a show on MTV last night about hackers, you must be one, you know so much." I had to laugh, I am not, and have no desire to be, a hacker, especially not the type it seems the MTV show portrayed. I think this kind of thing puts a negative image on us geeks in general. The mis-education of the public about anything technological is disgusting. Off topic, I hate movies portrayal of computers for the same reason. The saddest part is, you know someone who knows what they are doing had to code the computer to do that lame unrealistic crap.. it's sad.
-palp
Venture Capitalist - Backer
Breaks into other peoples systems to damage them - Cracker
Enjoys exploring as a learning experience - Hacker
Picks up dead animals - Knacker
Puts things in boxes - Packer
Member of religious sect - Quaker
Content to run 'setup' and use all defaults - Slacker
That should clear things up!
Chuck
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
He was the one. He is no script kiddie and his software is pretty good. That last NT bug was pretty substantial. So he is discovering them now, not exploiting them. Anyway, he knows his shit, as for the other ones, who knows...
Note that during the radio show section of this happy chunk of BS, when they recieved a letter from an AOLer asking how to get credit card numbers or something like that, the people on the radio show responded with something along the lines of "you don't just ask those kind of questions." I was quite suprised that they didn't start suggesting things about the AOL user's sexuality, mother, etc... Probably took a lot of takes to get something airable.
"Take 7! *thack*"
"Okay, we have a letter from someone here, asking us `how to hack into NORAD'... Now, if this person is listening, i think the answer can be found up your---"
"CUT! No! We can't air stuff like that! And i think this scene needs more random electronic thingies. Someone go to Radio Shack, buy a bunch of clock radios, take the thingies with the wires and stuff---"
"Boards?"
"Yeah, boards. Take them out and put them in good places in the scene. Remember, this has to look good on TV."
If 90% of everything isn't crap, your standards are too high.
I think MTV did an OK job. At least l0pht and anti-online had a say. It's too bad that they didn't go more into the terminology. One thing that I didn't like was those loser kids they followed around that appeared to be just a bunch of script kiddies. Thats just my two cents.. -Pre