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For pure music players, the simplicity and durability of the iPod design is going to be hard to beat (I didn't say impossible).

But for generic music players, IMHO there are a LOT of other offerings that are far better than the iPod series. Take the http://www.archos.com/ PMP. (I have a 5, and with the extended battery I can get just about 24 hours of video on a single charge... It lasted on a trip from NYC to Australia and back on a single charge. Oh, and 250 gb of music/video)...

Then Palm can create a plugin for iTunes to sync with Palm devices. They are just being lazy and/or cheap by spoofing the USB ID. Even freaking Archos (granted they only made a Mac version)made one, and they HATE Apple.

That being the case the government should make damn sure that any such device deactivates the moment your car starts moving and punish anyone tampering with it.

Yes, this would be the magic government that has the ability to remotely disable ubiquitous portable video screens, using their Amulet of Regulation.

This is a problem that government cannot solve -- appealing to them is not going to make it happen.

Go with an archos 7. I use it a *lot* more than my kindle, and I carry it around with me everywhere. http://www.archos.com/products/imt/archos_7/index.html?country=lu&lang=en

These arent bad, I have owned one for 3 years with no problems: https://store.archos.com/product_info.php?id=66 Mounts just like a usb hard drive and you just copy your music to it. Works with windows and linux.

They also have to compete with the latest "portable media-players" like the Archos Generation 5. I got a 605 Wifi for birthday. It comes with a 30GB HD and touchscreen and runs Qtopia Linux (unofficial hack.)

They sell for 200 Euro here in Germany.

I have one too. Its called an "archos". :D and no, I can't believe nobody else mentioned these awesome devices.

Speaking of troll and posting as AC... I didn't think anyone really cared what I would get. This just happens to be one of the reasons I would never buy an iPod. ...but since you asked so politely, I own an Archos 604 WiFi: http://www.archos.com/products/video/archos_604/in dex.html?country=global&lang=en

Archos already has Wi-Fi enabled players, Widescreen players, 160GB HDD players, Touchscreen players, Camcorder players, and all the accessories you can think of, including a DVR station, a helmet camcorder, and an FM radio.
They can play back MPEG-2, .PS, .VOB, H.264, and AAC.

Archos is the real mp3 player pioneer, they paved the way for large hard drive mp3 players with their Jukebox Multimedia. If you want any of the features mentioned in this article, you don't have to wait for the next iPod, because Archos has had them for a while now.

Archos already has Wi-Fi enabled players, Widescreen players, 160GB HDD players, Touchscreen players, Camcorder players, and all the accessories you can think of, including a DVR station, a helmet camcorder, and an FM radio.
They can play back MPEG-2, .PS, .VOB, H.264, and AAC.

Archos is the real mp3 player pioneer, they paved the way for large hard drive mp3 players with their Jukebox Multimedia. If you want any of the features mentioned in this article, you don't have to wait for the next iPod, because Archos has had them for a while now.

Archos already has Wi-Fi enabled players, Widescreen players, 160GB HDD players, Touchscreen players, Camcorder players, and all the accessories you can think of, including a DVR station, a helmet camcorder, and an FM radio.
They can play back MPEG-2, .PS, .VOB, H.264, and AAC.

Archos is the real mp3 player pioneer, they paved the way for large hard drive mp3 players with their Jukebox Multimedia. If you want any of the features mentioned in this article, you don't have to wait for the next iPod, because Archos has had them for a while now.

Archos already has Wi-Fi enabled players, Widescreen players, 160GB HDD players, Touchscreen players, Camcorder players, and all the accessories you can think of, including a DVR station, a helmet camcorder, and an FM radio.
They can play back MPEG-2, .PS, .VOB, H.264, and AAC.

Archos is the real mp3 player pioneer, they paved the way for large hard drive mp3 players with their Jukebox Multimedia. If you want any of the features mentioned in this article, you don't have to wait for the next iPod, because Archos has had them for a while now.

Archos already has Wi-Fi enabled players, Widescreen players, 160GB HDD players, Touchscreen players, Camcorder players, and all the accessories you can think of, including a DVR station, a helmet camcorder, and an FM radio.
They can play back MPEG-2, .PS, .VOB, H.264, and AAC.

Archos is the real mp3 player pioneer, they paved the way for large hard drive mp3 players with their Jukebox Multimedia. If you want any of the features mentioned in this article, you don't have to wait for the next iPod, because Archos has had them for a while now.

Archos already has Wi-Fi enabled players, Widescreen players, 160GB HDD players, Touchscreen players, Camcorder players, and all the accessories you can think of, including a DVR station, a helmet camcorder, and an FM radio.
They can play back MPEG-2, .PS, .VOB, H.264, and AAC.

Archos is the real mp3 player pioneer, they paved the way for large hard drive mp3 players with their Jukebox Multimedia. If you want any of the features mentioned in this article, you don't have to wait for the next iPod, because Archos has had them for a while now.

Archos already has Wi-Fi enabled players, Widescreen players, 160GB HDD players, Touchscreen players, Camcorder players, and all the accessories you can think of, including a DVR station, a helmet camcorder, and an FM radio.
They can play back MPEG-2, .PS, .VOB, H.264, and AAC.

Archos is the real mp3 player pioneer, they paved the way for large hard drive mp3 players with their Jukebox Multimedia. If you want any of the features mentioned in this article, you don't have to wait for the next iPod, because Archos has had them for a while now.

On the one hand we have home users behind Linksys firewall/routers. On the other hand we have business users who have better primary firewall hardware (at the cheaper end at least a Linux iptables box) but who have some of the stuff from Linksys and its competitors sitting behind that running wireless in their offices.

The Archos 604 wifi http://www.archos.com/products/video/archos_604wif i/features.html?country=us&lang=en won't let you share audio or video but it has nearly all the rest.
Of course, it's large size may be a down side for some.

If you want a full sized video screen, why not go for the Archos, or the Creative Zen Vision?

What about a 100 % monopolistic approach to iTunes songs and videos, perhaps?

iTunes files only play on an Apple iPod.

When Apple customers can play there tunes on this and their movies on this, while running an GPL OS license copy of iTunes on this,
then you know that Apple is dedicated to meeting the needs of ALL of it's customers, worldwide.

Typically, the marketplace favors the more open companies, more open formats.

So Apple should release a stripped down 'Lite' version of OS X for all PCs, for free.
(Include TextEdit, Calculator, DVD player, Safari, Mail, and iTunes, and the Utilities with the Lite OS X for PCs).
Sell iLife, QuickTime Pro, and iWork as separate products, that still can run on the Lite OS X for PCs.
License the Apple protected file format to other manufacturers.

Release the free Lite OS X the same day when MS Vista ships - let customers decide what they want.
Make Lite OS X downloadable as a burnable .iso image, or pick up a copy of it at the Apple store for $9.95 CD in a box. The Lite OS X CD should be a bootable full playing install CD like a Linux Live Install CD.

Still a full copy of OS X (with iLife) comes with the purchase of an Apple Mac PC.

Having more compatibility with an even larger user base does not diminish profits,
it should increase global sales for Apple and from iTunes even more.

iTunes proved that when iTunes went from a Macintosh Only software - to a Windows & Mac software.
OS X can prove that same example too - since it would run quite easily on any 'Vista' compatible PC.

604 WiFi is better!

Really? You mean running a blatantly monopolistic business practice and then stomping the guts out of your competition is bad?

Who let these socialists in here anyways?

This is almighty Capitalism were are talkin' bout here!

It's all about the ...

The TV shows are great - did you miss your favorite show once? $2 bucks and you got it.

(Every Sci-Fi Fan should download the Stargate '200' Episode now -
it's packed full of puns and spoofs of other SciFi shows - very funny stuff, best show ever!)

iTunes lacks a 'DVD to iPod' button - it needs one.
iTunes also needs a 'Burn to DVD' button - why download a 2 hour movie, if you can't play it on your TV?

I imagine over time the Song sales will plummet into the ground.
After the first 15,000 songs - do you really need to buy another one?

The occasional TV or Movie is ok, but HOW can you buy them with Apples Tiny 60GB/80GB Hard Drives - Pathetic.
Apple shouldn't even sell one machine with less than 100 GB Hard Drive.

The Music Videos are good, better now in 640x480 - an actually viewable experience.
The early 320x240 videos are a worthless joke.

Once you've bought all the music you'll ever need, (including the 12 CDs for the price of 1!),
that leaves your favorite movies, and they are by far cheaper over at Blockbuster, Netflix, or Hollywood Video.

The TV shows are a growth area - cheap enough to enjoy - disposable entertainment - no interruptions.

But once you have watched/listened to all you wanted to buy, you can still subscribe to dozens of free podcasts,

Podcasts let you learn the latest science, enjoy the latest entertainment, learn a new language, or catch up on interesting topics (like TikiBar!)

After you've grown bored with music, seen the latest music videos, grown tired of movies, and had your fill of podcasts,
well - iTunes will depend on the 'Long Tail' model of selling a little here and there of everything,
The monopolistic practice of DRMing content to Only run on Apple products - is not a successful plan for a business model.

Archos by far has a better media player - with web browsing, web mail, WiFi, touch screen, video, photos, music, TV DVR.
The Archos products make the current iPod look like the outdated 1990s product that it is.

Archos 604 WiFi
What the iPod wish it could be.

Found my Archos 604 WiFi at Sam's Club

You can't go wrong with Archos. They do a nice range of players. I use an aging Archos Gmini 400 (sadly discontinued).

The nice things about them are:

1. Very Good build quality
2. Large variety of players from simple music only to full blown media players.
3. Mount as standard USB mass storage
4. NO DRM what-so-ever
5. Supports mp3, wav, ogg, wma, wmv, divx, xvid (some formats are player dependent)
6. Windows Media Player can sync to it (as can many other freeware library managers)

If my Gmini died, I go straight to the web and buy another Archos, no question.

-Jar.

Noth Koreans will simply buy a tiny 20GM Archos Gmini, which is actually better AND cheaper than Ipod.

Also, Archos works with GNU/Linux right out of the box, just drag-and-drop, no additional software required.

Better than both, is the Archos 604 WiFi.

The current iPod sucks - all that 'real estate' taken up by a big dumb click wheel.
Zune - better screen, but still, kinda clunky, oh - and it can't play any formats that people already have.

Archos has better performance and compatibility than both the Zune or iPod.

What I wonder is when AMD will make a tiny, ultra low power, single core processor with integrated graphics?
(powerful enough to run a basic laptop - or add lots of computational power into products like the iPod.)

Well you can buy one here: http://www.archos.com/products/video_recording/cam corder.html?country=gb&lang=en

From the photos on BBC site it looks like this is the system they are using.

why don't you wear one? All the police are doing are using Archos AV500 wth the optional camera attachment. There are alot of people who use this setup when cycling or in their cars on tracks.

If some one can create a device that is better and/or cheaper, people will switch.

I have an Archos Gmini xs 202. It fits your specs perfectly. 20 gig, no huge flashy colour screen to drain battery life, and it's cheap too. I don't know if its still the case, but when I bought mine 9 months ago it was the cheapest 20 gig player you could get. Oh and best of all, no stupid custom interface for transfering music. You can drag and drop, or sync it with WMP.

Archos website

You'll fall down the stairs if you carry one of these... while it's a neat gadget, at 11.15 ounces, it's not exactly a direct competitor to any iPod. Using a 2.5" hard disk necessarily compromises the size and weight.

(Your claimed battery life for the iPod is also way too short.)

I owned several mp3 players including Archos Gmini, Samsusng YH-920 and Ipod.

Tiny 20GB Archos Gmini is certainly the best when it comes to the price and features. It also works with GNU/Linux out of the box, without any special drivers and/or software.

I owned several mp3 players including Archos Gmini, Samsusng YH-920 and Ipod.

Tiny 20GB Archos Gmini is certainly the best when it comes to the price and features. It also works with GNU/Linux out of the box, without any special drivers and/or software.

Have you ever seen a DVR that you can fit in your pocket?

Yes

Perhaps you've heard of these guys.

If there were an open media format with a multitude of player in that size, I think you'd find a LOT more takers.

I would suggest a Tiny 20GB Archos Gmini. It's about 50% less expensive than iPod, especially older models (XS200). I use it in the gym when running, it's great. Dropped it on the floor a couple of times, it survived.

Alternatively, you can buy iPod, Steve Jobs could use another $750,000,000 paycheck.

How can you replace a tired old DVR with another tired old DVR?

I just received my new 40gb PVR-700 and now I can go anywhere and have DVR functions.

I can copy the files I DVR onto my hard drive via the USB cable and do all my editing there.

I can bring my PVR to my friend's house and show off the cool ass viral video I downloaded.

I can plug it into my video card's s-video output and use it to record those hard to convert MKV and other wrapper video files.

You wanna get un-tired, you should check this device out.

sorry to be so fucking commercial about it, but seriously, it rocks.

Umm, okay. How about the Archos.

No DRM just like you said - and somehow people aren't flocking to it in droves. Could it be that you really would like a product without DRM, but you're a little out of touch with what the masses want?

A french society already produce good multimedia players (audio and video).
Not as much marketing as Apple but quite good players.

And innovating... not just a basic, fashion player!

http://www.archos.com/

something like this http://www.archos.com/products/gmini_402_cam/ ?

Uh... http://www.archos.com/products/catalog.html?

the video iPod only has it half right: if it took material from the television as readily as it did from the Internet, it could be a blockbuster.

the video iPod only has it half right: if it took material from the television as readily as it did from the Internet, it could be a blockbuster.

Dude... have you ever seen this...?

http://www.archos.com/products/av_500/

All of Archos products the start with AV are PVR's (Personal Video Recorders). I've been recording with my AV340 off of TV and DVD's for the last two years. They started with a 1.8" Screen PVR years and years ago.

... and better and cheaper too:

http://www.archos.com/products/fam_photo_video.htm l

these new pocket dish gadgets look strikingly familiar.............

http://www.archos.com/products/av_700/

Plus, the small screens don't exactly do justice to most of the things you are watching.

I find the Archos AV700's 7" screen quite bearable. Should be great for commuting to work in trains. Much like those portable DVD players (though I suspect those are mostly in use by kids in the backseats of cars).

I'm watching video everyday on my archos gmini 402 when traveling by buss, it's about the same size as an iPod. It doesn't tax the hardrive very much as it reads to memory in chunks. Im watching about 1.2 hours every day (and 30 mins of music) with lots of battery to spare, have never run out but I charge every day.

It's probably good to convert to small filesizes (as I do), the archos can play near DVD quality on external screen and with those files I can see it draining alot faster.

I can only say, anyone who says video portables are useless doesn't know what they are talking about. It works wonderfully and is just as fun as watching at home. I think Apple also realises this.

How can you link to Archos without mentioning the PMA 400? It's got a Linux SDK! Nevermind the AV500 and AV700, which both look slightly more polished...

These groups of people would probably go bananas over a video iPod, if it was done right.

It was,, but it doesn't say Apple on it. Hence, no bananas.

I have an Archos Gmini400 (now updated to Gmini402) which does music, photo, video and games for the same size and weight of an iPod (at this time, the iPod Photo was still unknown...). I have to admit the UI is far from perfect and that the games suck as phones' games. But, seriously the rest is cool. And the AVout to show pictures or movies is perfect when I travel and want to show my far-away home to the family.

You may want to check the other products from Archos like the AV500 which can record your TV signal, or the AV700, for its big wide screen.