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Except both Apple and Cingular have announced that the iPhone will be tied to a 2 year contract.

If it was just Mr Jobs spreading some roumours so he could do a "and one more thing" at the next macworld then I'd agree with you, but I don't think that's the case this time

Two things - It's a signal that Microsoft doesn't matter nearly as much as they used to. With the majority avoiding Vista like the plague, it's way down the cometitive radar screen for Apple which used to chase Microsoft. I'm sure everyone in Redmond smiled for a moment when the Leopard delay was announced... then sank into mild funk realizing Apple would be that much further ahead once the iPhone AND Leopard shipped in time for Vista SP1 - and the holidays.

Second, Apple is consciously missing the school buying season with Leopard - but so what? Anyone who is on the fence with switching to a Mac will probably do it anyway. Steve Jobs should do the right thing and supply a coupon for a free-ish Leopard upgrade with any computer purchased from June through October to solve any questions about the impact of the delay. Besides, who wouldn't want a REALLY cool pocket computer for school?

So, get on the stick Apple. You're still Microsoft's R&D department whether you like it or not.

Since Vista has proven to be absolutely no competition to even the current OS X, what's the rush for Leopard? Get the iPhone right and they'll have a HUGE winner on their hands. A million people have already queried AT&T about the iPhone through the notification list at Cingular, so who's your daddy?

Well, I think you are confusing transfer speed vs total monthly transfer. Verizon is very clear on their transfer speed and they set customer expectations well in this regard. They do not make claims of unlimited transfer speed and customers even know the speed may vary. They do, however, make claims of unlimited monthly transfer and then go back on their word in the fine print. This is deceptive.

Let's use a metaphor for the intertubes. I go to a car rental agency. I rent a Ferrari that was advertised as having a governor that limits the speed to 128 MPH. I know, poor Ferrari... The same car is advertised to allow unlimited miles on it that month. Let's say I drive the hell out of the car by entering the Cannon Ball Run 2007 contest. If said rental agency then told me at the end of the month that I had driven over my 5,000 mile limit and that my account was to be terminated I would be pissed. So would you and they would have a lawsuit on them so fast their heads would spin. Fine print or no fine print. That is what I would call deceptive advertising.

Do I honestly expect unlimited when I sign up with an ISP? No I'm not so naive. I will say that I don't know why they are getting a free pass on this. If the fine print directly conflicts the advertising then it's deceptive advertising. In this case, I think any seven year old could understand and tell you the claims are deceptive. Just because we see it in other places doesn't make it acceptable. The fine print should be there to further explain any mis-communications that may arise. Not to completely redefine their stated claims.

It's not like stating monthly transfer rates is data plans is unheard of either. You see it all the time with PDA data plans and PC data plans alike. Here is a link to six Cingular plans with monthly transfer limits from 5 MB, 10 MB, 20 MB, 50 MB, all the way up to "Unlimited". So I don't think you can say I'm being pedantic. Anyone knows what the word unlimited means and anyone knows that Verizon is being deceptive. Verizon's marketing does a bad job of setting customer expectations, and they should change their data plans so that their customers are not alienated with an unclear data plan.

JOhn

This is the same thing with just about any data plan on any wireless company. Go take a look at any wireless usage TOS. Here's a few for you. Search for the word "unlimited".

http://www.cingular.com/learn/messaging-internet/m edia-legal-notices.jsp
http://www.sprintpcs.com/common/popups/popLegalTer msPrivacy.html

I'm sure it's the same with most other companies too. This is nothing new.

Trust me on this...
http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service/cell-ph one-details/?q_list=true&q_phoneName=MOTORAZR+V3i+ with+iTunes&q_sku=sku1000028-0

You don't have to believe me, but the companies must be lying then! Cingular doesn't offer 3G in Denver right now - here is there coverage. Well over 100 cities in total.

I was using my Sprint phone on a business trip while in Denver. If the whole list is a sham then both Cnet and I are lying !

Here is a list of all the cities that do currently support 3G.

Denver is not on there, but the rest of the cities you listed are. But there are a lot of cities (and whole states) not covered. Only 37 of the 50 states, and in a lot of those states only one major metro area.

It's only $150 with contract, which is how I assume most people will wind up buying the phone.

The iPhone is listed as being $499 or $599, depending on the model. The iPhone will only be available bundled with a contract.

So depending on which model iPhone you compare it with, it's either one-third or one-quarter the price.

Cingular/AT&T has what they're calling their "Unity Plans" now. Under any of these plans, calls to other AT&T customers (residential/business, landline/cellular) don't count against your monthly minutes. If you're in AT&T's footprint, the majority of your calls are probably going to be to other AT&T phones anyway...so you're not going to need as many monthly minutes. A 700 minute family plan is $70. Add $5 - $40 for messaging and/or data and I think you've got a pretty good deal.

It's only priced so high so that it doesn't cannibalize ipod sales. Unfortunately, Apple doesn't seem to realize there's no reason to purchase a phone for such a premium price when you can get these:

Creative Zen Vision 30G $284.99 + Nokia 6103 $160 = $444.99

For less than this:

iPhone $499/4gb $599/8gb

Two superior devices (the best camera phone + the best portable HD based video player) for less than an overhyped, overpriced product... hmm. I wonder what people are going to buy.

The price of your Sony Ericsson example is without the discount from your cell phone company for signing a 2 year contract. According to Macworld, "Apple has no plans to release a version of the iPhone without a service contract or one that is unlocked." The prices announced for the iPhone include a 2 year contract. As for the Windows Mobile phones, you're just wrong.

If you want a phone with a comparable screen resolution (480x640 compared to iPhone's 480x320), try the Neo1973 OpenMoko phone, available in February 2007, priced at $350 unlocked. (It even has a touchscreen)

Or you could just admit that people who buy Apple want to pay more than they have to for a computer/music player/phone.

Also there is a requirement for these plans to be paired with at least a $40/month voice plan (and not forgetting the $5/month fees that sound like taxes but aren't) that's $85/month - for 2 years that's a minimum of $2540 (including the cheaper phone).

Want voice dialing? Cingular will sell you one for another $120 ($5/mo)- http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service/service s/serviceDetails.jsp?LOSGId=&skuId=sku1040072 - which, since Apple has made no noise about this being included, may be your only way to get this feature. Yea, I'd say $3000 isn't too far off the mark!

in that case, would you characterize the treo or blackberry as a "$2800 phones that plays mp3s and has a calendar"?

No sorry, the $20/month plan is not available for PDA's - that a smartphone-only plan. Just ask those who bought Blackjacks or Treos. The fortunate ones have legacy plans but new activations are limited to $40 PDA plans. Why the difference? That's a fantasy of Cingular's accounting department.

Also there is a requirement for these plans to be paired with at least a $40/month voice plan (and not forgetting the $5/month fees that sound like taxes but aren't) that's $85/month - for 2 years that's a minimum of $2540 (including the cheaper phone).

Want voice dialing? Cingular will sell you one for another $120 ($5/mo)- http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service/service s/serviceDetails.jsp?LOSGId=&skuId=sku1040072 - which, since Apple has made no noise about this being included, may be your only way to get this feature. Yea, I'd say $3000 isn't too far off the mark!

This device looks great but when they went with Cingular they had to get greedy...

thank you for the troll.

a $3000 phone that plays mp3s and has a calendar

nice try. to get to $3000 over 2 years, you are assuming that it'll cost $100/month to use the iphone. by that reasoning, the new treo is a $2800 phone since the phone itself is $400. and fyi, cingular offers an unlimited data plan for smartphones for $20/month: http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service//cell-p hone-plans/smartphone-connect-plans.jsp

and the iphone obviously is more than an mp3 player and a calendar. since you missed the keynote, here it is: http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/j47d52oo/eve nt/

Of course iPhone (especially when judged from a distance) is not going to be a perfect phone. There are many people around who would say that something this was and still is a perfect mobile phone (and to a great degree I can't blame them -- this phone does what a phone should do: makes calls). We can go back to 2001 and check the "predictive powers" of CmdrTaco wrt iPod -- has it panned out?

But is the market really *that* uncertain? Or maybe the analysts are looking at it from a way too US-centric view (and maybe Steve is making a very similar mistake not releasing this phone in US and Europe at the same time)?

Look at it this way, check out current Cingular offering. The cheapest smart phones start at $99 with a 2-year contrct, but these are older BBs 7290s and Treos. WinCE smart phones are between $299 and $399 with a contract (and at a special price). None of them carries nearly as much RAM as iPhone (and I read it that 4G or 8G will be the user available space), packs nearly the same set of features. I don't have a first-hand experience with WinCE phones, but I keep on hearing about dropped calls, reboots, etc. -- not good, and that;s already 2nd or 3rd generation, is it not?

Six months ago I picked up Nokia N80 for nearly $800. When I am looking at it now and comparing it to the iPhone -- I'll pay just about as much for iPhone now (and I bet it will cost just about as much in Europe): it has a much larger display, looks like it is so much faster, would seamlessly sync with my Mac.

But even if we set a nerd like me aside and just look in a different part of the globe, I know of a lot of people that here in Europe (and even more so, here in Russia) will shell out twice that for the iPhone had it been available here sooner. Look at the prices for the stylish high-end from Nokia (8800 and the likes) -- they are priced out side of any sensible ranges, considering what they can do (and don't even start me on Vertu -- a 3320 wrapped in jewels).

So, I think that while Steve may not end up meeting the 1% share target, he may still well make the required breakthrough, and by the 2nd generation of the iPhone it would make the same to smart phones market as 2nd gen iPod to the MP3 player one (or so I want to believe).

That's because most people don't want to spend extra $20/month (minimum) for unlimited data plan. And iPhone have already failed to change this somehow.

Big part of iPhone innovative functionality depends on internet connection, so people decided to go with iPhone will have to:

• spend $500-600 on iPhone
• switch to Cingular
• sign 2-years contract
• buy unlimited data plan ( prices )

Here's Cingular's insurance page. Seems one price to me. But... there seems to be an ineligible list (PDF!)... and with seeing the Treos and Blackberrys on there, I now fear that the iPhone might possibly be ineligible as well. We'll just have to wait for the final word I guess. I wouldn't get it without some sort of insurance.

Here's Cingular's insurance page. Seems one price to me. But... there seems to be an ineligible list (PDF!)... and with seeing the Treos and Blackberrys on there, I now fear that the iPhone might possibly be ineligible as well. We'll just have to wait for the final word I guess. I wouldn't get it without some sort of insurance.

The Treo does more than you'd think, and at least for me, syncing with itunes is not an advantage at all, because I find itunes as a music player cumbersome. But I agree that the Treo is no Iphone. For one thing, the Treo's lack of an accessible OS is crippling. When the linux based Treo's come out, then there will be a Palm device worth comparing. The Windows based Palms are such crap that you wouldn't want to wipe your ass with one.

The Cingular 8525 is the phone the Iphone should be compared to because:

• 3G is awesome
• The ability to act as a modem via USB cable is AWESOME. I currently use my treo as a bluetooth modem, and it SUCKS -- bluetooth isn't that fast of a protocol.
• windows media player. decidedly NOT awesome, but at least better than Itunes

Not necessarily: 9 hours

To answer my own post, it looks like the only Cingular plan that provides unlimited data for $20 a month is their Smartphone Connect plan. (Link: http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service/cell-ph one-plan-details/?q_sku=sku1030047&q_planCategory= cat50005 )

How technically do you get the data from the cellphone to your laptop? Do you have a PCMCIA card that you have to move your SIM card to, or can you do it over a USB/Bluetooth link? What's Cingular's policy on doing so? It looks like this plan is intended only for browsing on the phone itself... if "caught" using it for a laptop, would they bill you for past data?

All I see at the cingular web site is $199 AFTER $100 rebate. What are you smoking?

http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service/cell-ph ones/pda-phones-smartphones.jsp

http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service//cell-p hone-plans/smartphone-connect-plans.jsp

When I shopped, I looked at Cingular and T-Mobile's prepaid plans. At least in my area, Cingular's two prepaid plans include a 10 cents per minute, 1 dollar per day plan (I agree, not very useful, though perhaps in some situations) and a 25 cent per minute plan without the daily fee. Minutes in $25-$75 chunks expire after 90 days, with $100 dollar chunks lasting a year.

T-Mobile's prepaid plan has a graduated pay scale as low as 10 cents per minute if you buy minutes in chunks of $100, and as high as 30 cents in chunks of $10. Expiration is 90 days at the $25-50 level. If you've bought enough minutes to be "gold" customer (1000 minutes I believe), then any chunk of minutes lasts a one year. The graduated pricing still applies but gets slightly cheaper with 10 cents still being the cheapest in $100 chunks ($50 buys at 11 cents per min; $25, 17 cents per).

I believe both Cingular and T-Mobile carry over unused minutes as long as you buy new minutes before the old ones expire. Note that number portability does not apply to prepaid accounts, at least T-Mobile told me I could not transfer my previous cell number.

I decided on T-Mobile, brought my unlocked GSM phone to a T-Mobile store, and had no troubles (though some kiosks did not carry prepaid plans; I had to go to my town's main store).

not a new phone.

When the US Cellular shackles are removed from me, I'm going to jump to cingular. I'd have considered Verizon, as their overall coverage in my area is the best of any provider, but I just can't handle the crippling they put on their hardware.

(No, I'm not a shill for cingular - I'm not even a customer yet. Yes, it's the second time I've linked to an 8525...what can I say, I think it's a cool pda/phone)

It would be even better if they could put it in a truly portable format. With flash it could even be an instant-on type device! To make it small, and inexpensive, they should keep the screen size and resolution low. MS could probably develop a smaller footprint of win/outlook/office. I'm sure Adobe could slim down their reader a bit. They might even consider going to a "tablet"-like format with a miniture keyboard.

Of course, to be really innovative, they could add wireless and connectivity to the cell high-speed data networks. God, this could be awesome!. Oh, right; so much for cutting edge, I guess.

You can get a 2 GB MicroSD card for this:

http://www.cingular.com/SLVR_iTunes/

The phone has a horrible keyboard and is huge. Really, it's huge. It's as big as a razr unfolded, and those phones are much larger than people realize. However, it still does what you want.

Most people, quite possibly yourself included, don't realize how big it is until comparisons are made, so perhaps you could just avoid that. It comes with an adapter to use your own headphones, and if you look around on eBay you can find one unlocked for your carrier (assuming it's a GSM carrier).

This isn't new, btw, it's over a year old.

Cingular, Sprint and Verizon all estimate 400-700 kbps download speeds: http://www.cingular.com/broadbandconnect_consumer http://www.sprint.com/business/products/products/w irelessHighSpeedData_tabB.html http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/mobileoptions/b roadband/serviceoverview.jsp

The biggest difference is coverage. Sprint claims EVDO coverage in 220 markets with Verizon claiming 181 metro areas (148 million people). Cingular claims only 63 metro areas for HSDPA coverage.

Link: http://www.cingular.com/SLVR_iTunes/

I would consider it a "cell phone + good MP3 player". Quality is excellent, and even though the trans-flash only holds 100 songs, that's a good 8-10 cd's worth of music you like.

I don't get it. Why not just get a Cingular 8125? I'm failing to see any stat that's better except memory, and buying an extra Mini-SD to bring that stat up still gets you in the door cheaper than the Mylo. The screen is actually slightly larger than the Mylo (2.8 vs 2.4) and the keyboard is much better.

In fact, I don't see why anyone would want to use a device like this that's limited to Wi-Fi networks. Wi-fi is better than cords, but you're still on a relatively short leash. My internet browsing, text messaging and email works just fine on my phone almost anywhere without setting up yet another hot-spot. Sound and pictures work great too, though video is a little fussy if don't get the quality just right.

In a day when people are getting more and more communication choices on their cell phones, video on their iPods, and the internet on their DSs and PSPs, I'm just utterly failing to see a market rushing to embrace this kind of device.

TW

If you just take the free phones your provider offers, then games won't be that great. But if you get a decent phone and have a decent provider there are plenty of free games. There are ports of Doom, Wolfenstein 3D, and Frozen Bubble. There are also free or cheap emulators for the Genesis, the NES, and the SNES.

Well This stuff is not so easy to find unless you really know what you are looking for. I barley have time to learn and keep up with graphics packages I have to know. I really think there should like a beginners guild to OOo. I mean this page has so many links that I just go never mind when I see it. http://www.openoffice.org/about_us/new.html I would like to see something like a side by side comparison with little check boxes like you get when you are buying a new cell phone or laptop. You know like the comparison pages on any wireless provider has for there phones. http://onlinestorez.cingular.com/cell-phone-servic e/cell-phones/cell-phones.jsp?v=1&q_categoryId=171 7200027&WT.svl=com2&q_compareIds=%22cdsku9870076re g3%22%2C%22cdsku9870089%22 It might seem really simplistic but UH it should be. Then you can have all the techie wordy long ass description once I know what it does and doesn't do and I want to know more about what it does do.

Still want to bet on the iPod's supremacy when Joe Sixpack will be able to walk by a Cingular kisok and pick up a phone that has that kind of storage, no DRM lock-in, and a service plan that makes it cost about a hundred bucks?

You mean like the SLVR?

yeah, but doesn't Xpress require Lotus Notes or Outlook and Windows? Not much of a cross platform solution. Not to mention, if I need to keep my laptop on for this stuff to sync, it can't exactly be in my briefcase with me on the way to a meeting.

Check it out here http://www.cingular.com/midtolarge/xpress_mail_per sonal#

Tim

Look at the bottom of this: http://onlinestorez.cingular.com/privacy/consumer_ opt.jsp

"Additionally, if you do not want to receive e-mail communications from us, you must provide us with the e-mail address we should not contact."

Maybe I should give them all my credit card numbers as well so they know not to charge them?

Cingular still makes boku money, just like they always have. And Motorola still makes whatever money they always have. So the phone isn't a failure at all. But it's nothing like the spectacular success that iPod was either. What do you expect from two huge companies who are trying to hang on to their revenue streams?

Cingular charges US$0.10 for messages sent and received. (source)

If you were grandfathered-in with AT&T however, incoming messages are free. (source)

Cingular charges US$0.10 for messages sent and received. (source)

If you were grandfathered-in with AT&T however, incoming messages are free. (source)

All of microsoft's smartphones play mp3s. (they come with windows media player). I've had the audiovox 5600 (http://onlinestorez.cingular.com/cell-phone-servi ce/cell-phones/phonedetails.jsp?id=cdsku9870044 [cingular.com] ) for > 6 months now, and its sooo much better than carrying 2 devices (+ wallet + keys)
I'd get the microsoft phone over an apple phone anyday -- if only because of the protection that apple would have. Who knows, they'd allow you to have a song play only on your phone or your computer!

Cingular offers a device called a fast forward. You put the device in a cradle that connects to the landline and it automatically forwards all calls to your landline while charging your device.

...with VoIP and cell phones, SBC can have the type of monopoly that AT&T once dreamed of...

or a reasonable loss leader for getting people started on pay-as-you go mobile offerings.

Almost every cell provider does this already, and not just for pay-as-you go type offerings. Cingular has three phones that are free instantly, with no mail in rebates involved.

Pre-paid phones usually rely on mail in rebates, but there are still prepaid phones available that would net to free after (if?) the rebate check arrives.

So has Cingular.

Well, there is one major problem with an open/free "smartphone": How do you go about getting your packets through the cell-phone system? The frequencies are owned by corporations like Verizon, and you can only communicate if you use their approved equipment.

The GSM operators in the US, like elsewhere, will happily take you on using any equipment of your chosing that's compatable with the network. If it's GSM1900 or GSM850, it'll work on any 1900MHz or 850MHz GSM network in the US as long as an appropriate SIM card is in the phone.

It's expensive to get a phone that's "unlocked" (doesn't refuse SIMs from operators other than the network that sold the phone), but it's not impossibly so.

Cingular and T-Mobile USA are currently the two largest GSM operators in the US. Cingular uses a mix of 850 and 1900MHz, T-Mobile just 1900MHz. They're both reasonably good with plans competitive with those of Verizons, but check out the experience of people you know on those networks in the areas you want to use them as coverage varies with any network.

* (Off-topic CDMA rant: This, incidentally, is a crying shame. Qualcomm's supporters initially claimed no mobile users actually wanted personal mobility, then argued it would be illegal to implement in the US, then finally, when Qualcomm implemented it as an optional extra, argued that it was perfectly reasonable to make it optional because those kinds of decisions should, for reasons unknown, be the choice of the network operator. Sure. Right. Whatever. CDMA is a really nice idea, it's a shame the major standard for it really, really, sucks, to an extent that the standard made the entire package worse than the competition. It's nice UMTS has adopted the technology itself (not the standard) and hopefully will put it out to people in a package that's actually user flexible rather than Qualcomm's bizarre systems.)

You are confusing the features of the provider with the features of the phone. Voicemail is something done by the provider and has NOTHING to do with the type of the phone. And if you don't like flip-phones, a 30 second trip to ATT could show you that there is Sony-Ericson T637. Other providers offer similar and more "brick-like" phones. (ie. TMobile with Nokia 6010, Samsung R225m, etc.)

Don't confuse your lack of research with lack of offerings.

I've been happy using my Sony Ericsson T616 and the Cingular MediaWorks Package (costs around $20/month, see https://www.cingular.com/media/media_purchase).

I get unlimited data, so I don't have to worry about a per KB charge, and I've been able to get coverage anywhere I can get a signal from Cingular. The downside is that it's slow (dialup modem speed, at best), but that's still good enough for checking e-mail or looking up maps or phone numbers when I'm out on the road.

I usually use it over Bluetooth from my PowerBook, with the following settings:
- Phone#: *99***1#
- User: wap@cingulargprs.com
- Password: CINGULAR1

I've also had success using it over a serial connection to the phone, through a cable similar to this one:

http://www.cellphonemall.net/wireless/store/access orydetail.asp?id=24792&phoneid=238