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For a smaller manufacturer focusing mainly on the cheaper half of the market, like Ford, it is hard to justify large investments in EVs not (yet) bought by their typical customer that won't be profitable for some years.

Are you seriously describing Ford as a small manufacturer? Ford is one of the 5 biggest automakers on the planet. They are huge by any reasonable description.

Ford make their money selling affordable B and C segment cars and margins are razor thin.

What are you talking about? Ford makes their money selling large pickups and SUVs. You clearly haven't looked at their financials statements. They lose money (and lots of it) on smaller passenger cars which is why they recently announced they were getting out of that market segment.

They have also lost a lot of market share because of uncompetitive products and questionable reliability and now Brexit is threatening the one market where they are reasonably successful, so I can imagine large investments in EVs are not the top priority at Ford.

The UK market is NOT a big market for Ford and Brexit only really matters to them insofar as it affects the global economy. Ford only sold about 375K vehicles in Britain in 2018 versus about 6 million vehicles sold worldwide. Any company that is not investing heavily in EVs already is playing a very dangerous game where they are basically hoping the technology will fail.

They will get to it when the EV market is more mature.

Any company that waits that long will almost certainly lose massive market share. They won't be able to get batteries at a competitive price and their technology will be one or more generations behind the curve. Playing wait and see is a huge risk when it comes to a technology shift like we are seeing with EVs.

I saw a few comments here suggesting it was a Jewish thing. Seemed odd, so I did a quick google search and... turns out they were right.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/u...
https://www.independent.co.uk/...

Looks like the outbreak is indeed centered in the city's Orthodox Jewish community. That really is odd, as the objections seem to be based on false scientific claims, not superstitious or moral objections.

I don't see anything to connect is to immigration though. The Independent suggests the outbreak strain was brought back from Israel, but by tourists who went there for a festival and returned home with the virus incubating.

The US has never asked anyone to arrest him with the intention of extraditing him....

Not so fast. They're not getting him on classified, they're going after him for hacking.

https://www.apnews.com/328522a... "A U.S. official says the Justice Department is preparing to announce charges against WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/w... "US seeks extradition on hacking charges"

https://www.theguardian.com/me...

The Problem is that when you cut programs for fighting domestic terror in a country where white supremacists account for a disproportionate amount of attacks and then say both sides are bad when literal Nazis are rallying, well...

There just comes a time to call a Spade a Spade. I don't care of Trump really drinks the Kool-Aid or is just doing it for the votes or even the lulz. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and hiel Hitler's like a duck, it's a White Nationalist. Sooner we stop living in denial the better. This will not end well for us otherwise. Ignoring reality never does...

It's amusing to see all the whataboutism on /., but, really, although the U.S. has problems, it's nothing compared to mainland China.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/china/disappearances-forced-confessions-china-targets-dissent-n505046
https://www.vox.com/2018/8/15/17684226/uighur-china-camps-united-nations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_China
https://freedomhouse.org/blog/china-s-quiet-drive-normalize-repression
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/17/chinas-growing-intolerance-for-dissent-will-come-at-a-high-price

I am sorry, the USA DOES NOT have more "nukes" than the rest of the world. Here are the numbers: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/w... Please, do at least 10 seconds of googling before you spout bullshit. Thank you.

that Hate Crime is increasing while the rest of violent crime decreases. Here's the article you're probably referencing. Since it was the 1st hit on google.

We fought hard to delegitimize organized violence against minorities in this country. There was widespread anti-black terrorism committed with impunity right up until the 70s (and the occasional incident in the 80s and 90s).

It's not that Americans evolved some higher form of intelligence or empathy. We're the same folk we were 40 years ago minus a chunk of bigotry. What I'm saying is that it would be effortless for us to regress back to the KKK days. I'm a white dude and I do not want that.

Maybe some are. Some are not.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/i...

Americans are buying SUV's over cars and SUV's get much worse MPG. It's the reason Ford will no longer make sedans.
https://www.nbcnews.com/busine...
That's why emissions are up in the US.
Secondly, the US isn't the top carbon emitter enymore either: China emits more carbon then the US and Europe combined:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/0...
Third, the US has a president that denies global warming is real and is doing everything he can to eradicate any "Obama era" policy that might require reduced emissions, more efficiency vehicles or the pushing of renewables. The republican mantra of "remove those horrible job killing regulations " is in full force.

Yeah, but your lamestream media insists on blaming EVERYTHING on Trump. Ignore the FAA. Ignore the NTSB. Ignore the hundreds of dead people from the aircraft, the value of the aircraft lost, and the potential hundreds or thousands more killed if the thing hit a populated area. Imagine if he himself lifted the ban on one of these death traps by the same royal decree that he obviously used to make everybody's day miserable. Oh yeah, and ignore most of the countries that have 737 MAX in service grounding them. Yeah, thanks, Trump!
 
Seriously, check it out.
 
  https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/grounding-boeing-s-737-max-jets-leaves-some-passengers-limbo-n983026

Yeah, NBC, blame it on Trump!

"My dad called me, and he told me that all of the 737s were being grounded by Trump , so we didn't get an announcement till, like, 10 minutes later after that call."
 
In the Obama era, they would have gone to every concourse in every airport until they could have found someone praising Obama for keeping everyone safe despite it being unlikely that Obama would have even been told about such a grounding. Watch Miss Mash delete this post. Take a screen shot, folks!

Stop censoring me! I'm NOT CRAZY, I'm just a regular republican vandalizing bathrooms in my cross-country threatening spree! Google is ebil! LEAVE MITTNEY ALONE!

Have some links.

right up there with the telephone scammer who called the former FBI director

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/u...

Want to take bets on if they are all on the do not call list ?

That's the lie you're still stuck on?

That was just an example. Which one are you stuck on?

He incapable as a human being of being.. [expletive deleted] I don't even know the a good word to use... decent?

Do I think Trump's decent? Not really--I wish act more dignified. From what I've seen though, it's usually the left that is behaving indecently, whether it's the women's march, the histrionics over the Kavanaugh hearing, or some of their upstanding elected officials. You can't claim the moral high ground here.

Not necessarily.... https://www.nbcnews.com/news/a...

Does nobody remember how AOL handled things?

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/1030...

If you cut supply, price will go up.

And guess what?

All the virtue signalling in the universe won't change that.

If you want housing costs to go down, build more fucking homes. Stop putting roadblocks on development.

California.

What a paradise.

Next thing you know, California will have long-dormant mass diseases coming back to go with the highest poverty and lowest graduation rates in the US.

Ooops. Too late.

House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn, D-S.C. has suggested that border security can be accomplished "doing it with what I like to call using a 'smart wall.' "

I thought the exact same thing. Turns out that we mistakenly confused the owner of Segway with the inventor. The owner of the company that owned the rights to the name Segway fell off a cliff and died.

I was confused, too. Thanks for prompting me to look up this information!

Bullshit - ALL of the most public anti-tax proponents are liberal Hollywood elite.

I stopped reading after the bit about those evil old "liberal Hollywood elite", your language has outed you.

Yes, it's all those "liberal Hollywood elites" to blame for everything, whatever you say. Cool story bro.

Bullshit - ALL of the most public anti-tax proponents are liberal Hollywood elite.

No coincidence that besides ultra-liberal Seattle, another place having measles outbreaks in Hollywood itself.

You can yammer all you want but how do you explain only liberal areas having these issues? As I said, Texas (and other strongly conservative states) do not.

I have a lot of evidence showing what I say is true - you have nothing but hot air and a mind hell-bent on ignorance.

The first step of solving any problem is admitting you have one - you can't even do that much to save kids. Sick dude.

Libtards have been screaming that Trump is going to prison for what, 2+ years now? Still hasn't happened. You know what? It's never going to happen!

Just this week, the Senate has uncovered no direct evidence of conspiracy between Trump campaign and Russia.

Just because the airline put in a "hidden city" disclaimer doesn't make it legal. Companies sneak terms and conditions in contracts all the time that are not enforceable, they just hope the client doesn't call them on it.

For example, hotels use to put in a no bad review clauses, congress stepped in and set the record straight. https://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/yes-you-can-post-negative-online-review-says-congress-n693001

It's okay, they can just cut a hole in it with a $5 hacksaw.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politi...

The U.S. government needs FAR better management.

One example is the problems at the IRS:

The IRS Really Needs Some New Computers (April 17, 2018) "The tax agency's embrace of IBM in the 1950s helped drive down audit rates. It's still depending on the same code."

IRS says it's using technology from JFK's time (Feb. 3, 2015)

TurboTax, H&R Block Spend Big Bucks Lobbying for Us to Keep Doing Our Own Taxes (March 23, 2017)

How the IRS Was Gutted (Dec. 11, 2018) "An eight-year campaign to slash the agency's budget has left it understaffed, hamstrung and operating with archaic equipment. The result: billions less to fund the government. That's good news for corporations and the wealthy."

Who's More Likely to Be Audited: A Person Making $20,000 -- or $400,000? (Dec. 12, 2018) "If you claim the earned income tax credit, whose average recipient makes less than $20,000 a year, you're more likely to face IRS scrutiny than someone making twenty times as much. How a benefit for the working poor was turned against them."

After Budget Cuts, the IRS' Work Against Tax Cheats Is Facing "Collapse" (Oct. 1, 2018) "Audits and criminal referrals are down sharply since Congress cut the tax agency's budget and management changed priorities."

There are much earlier reports about IRS under-management: Internal Revenue Service is a den of thieves. (April 2, 2000. Not a "den of thieves", just terribly undermanaged, apparently.) "The GAO audit compared the agency to someone who can't balance his or her checkbook and instead just adjusts it to agree with the bank statement."

No, you're a lying faggot.

You should acquaint yourself with the basic facts of the story instead of relying on Reason Magazine. The "learn to code" shit was included in a barrage of death threats from 4chan users. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/t...

You can't immunize babies for measles under one year of age, and a very small subset of the population with compromised immune systems. Further not every last person who gets the mmr vaccine develops the same level of immunity. All of these people have thier lives riding on the people who have no valid excuse to help prevent them from becoming ill and suffering possible permemant damage or death. Even people who survive, especially children, can be affected years later called subacute sclerosing panencephalitis or SSPE. You get an incurable brain infection, seizures, deteriorating function, and then (so far) a 100% chance of death. It's not even as uncommon as once thought. So even survivors don't have a rosy future.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3520...

The bombs weren't fake no matter how many times you repeat that lie.

Nobody was hurt, but the bombs were real, officials said.

"These are not hoax devices," FBI Director Christopher Wray said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/u...

What amazing MAGAtard logic. Saying something mean on the Internet means you deserve to get a mail bomb sent to you in retaliation.

You will also notice his bombs weren't real.

Yeah you MAGAtards did try to claim that yet the police said otherwise.

Nobody was hurt, but the bombs were real, officials said.

"These are not hoax devices," FBI Director Christopher Wray said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/u...

Facts are so inconvenient, right?

The "wall" is part of a border control system. Physical barriers must be surveilled and have human pickets available. The successful "walls" (built by Israel, Saudi, and Hungary) are monitored and patrolled. They don't just sit there awaiting circumvention or breaching.

Unfortunately the American public can't understand words longer than four letters so "wall" has taken over the discussion.

If "walls" don't work I must have hallucinated the Berlin Wall when I was stationed in West Germany. Those who want open borders should advocate suitable legislation.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/w...

Berlin's wall didn't work. My grandmother for one escaped across it.

The "wall" is part of a border control system. Physical barriers must be surveilled and have human pickets available. The successful "walls" (built by Israel, Saudi, and Hungary) are monitored and patrolled. They don't just sit there awaiting circumvention or breaching.

Unfortunately the American public can't understand words longer than four letters so "wall" has taken over the discussion.

If "walls" don't work I must have hallucinated the Berlin Wall when I was stationed in West Germany. Those who want open borders should advocate suitable legislation.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/w...

Non-citizens cannot vote.

Wrong wrong wrong. They can and do vote where liberal governments allow it, and this is just the tip of the iceberg.

A lot of what Trump does is done impulsively.

A lot is, but this one wasn't impulsive.

The last time (or second to last time? hard to keep track) the federal government was facing a shutdown 10 months ago, Trump threatened to veto the spending bill because it didn't contain funding for his wall, and that he would "never again" sign a bill like that (source). Since it seems he is (so far) sticking to that promise, I wouldn't call his actions impulsive.

If it did you would have a point, but immigrants contribute to the economy in average, so it doesn't, and you don't.

Illegal immigrants - what is under discussion with the wall - cost $54 billion to $115 billion per year. Legal immigrants are invited guests; illegal immigrants are unwanted squatters.

I don't ask the workers at McDonald's how to manage my health, and I don't ask border guards how to address immigration. That's above their pay grade.

Ahh - you DO know better than those who do their job - you are the pointy-haired boss! Do you expect the McDonald's workers to know how to take an order and wrap a cheeseburger better than you? Because that's what we're talking about. The people who are responsible for catching illegal immigrants say "I need this tool to do my job better". You're like the engineer who's never worked on a production line, coming and telling a production line worker they do not need a screwdriver to install those screws, they can just use their fingers or a wrench.

So why do you lock your doors? Why don't you let anyone into your house, whoever wants to come inside and just stay and let you pay for their needs?

The alleged harassment continued for months, even after Herrick obtained a temporary restraining order against Grindr that required the company to disable the impersonating profiles.

Emphasis mine. Had Grindr simply flagged and disabled the harassing profiles, this case wouldn't exist.

Spout your open source screed somewhere it applies.

a buddy of mine was pretty pissed because he'd been trying to get a job driving truck at the mine for years. It (used to) pay really well. They're also using little drones to plant explosives and explore tunnels (since they can't use children anymore :) ).

I'm actually surprised there aren't more robots. I realize these aren't really AI, but from a layman's standpoint the distinction doesn't seem too important.

https://www.livescience.com/62...
Artifacts of human or other industrial civilizations are unlikely to be found on a planet's surface after about 4 million years, said Frank and study co-author Gavin Schmidt, director of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York. For instance, they noted that urban areas currently take up less than 1 percent of Earth's surface, and that complex items, even from early human technology, are very rarely found. A machine as complex as the Antikythera mechanism â" which is considered to be the world's first computer from ancient Greece â" remained unknown until the development of elaborate clocks in RenaissanceEurope.

One may also find it difficult to unearth fossils of any beings who might have lived in industrial civilizations, the scientists added. The fraction of life that gets fossilized is always extremely small: Of all the many dinosaurs that ever lived, for example, only a few thousand nearly complete fossil specimens of the "terrible lizards" have been discovered. Given that the oldest known fossils of Homo sapiens are only about 300,000 years old, there is no certainty that our species might even appear in the fossil record in the long run, they added. [In Images: The Oldest Fossils on Earth]

https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/s...

âoeOur cities cover less than one percent of the surface,â he says. Any comparable cities from an earlier civilization would be easy for modern-day paleontologists to miss. And no one should count on finding a Jurassic iPhone; it wouldn't last millions of years, Gorilla Glass or no.
There is tons of theories that there has been previous intelligent civilizations prior to our own current one. Hell, NASA is even researching it. You are a moron to just activity dismiss this possibility. Both articles I reference note that artifacts would not survive millions of years.

Do I believe this? Not at the moment. But I am not a moron like some posters here that would refuse to acknowledge the possibility, even if a fucking previous intelligent artifact hit them in the head and was dated to 1,000,000 years of age. Fucking idiots

The problem of "homeless people with full-time jobs" is most definitely not a small problem or only located in certain areas. Cite 1 (extremely informative and well-researched investigative series) Cite 2 Cite 3 Cite 4

I suspect you're just reciting truisms. Unfortunately, this problem has been growing massively in the past two decades. The scale and visibility is such now that some journalists, investigators and generally insightful people are taking long hard looks at it.

Even the other people who responded to my comment are still saying (or implying) the most exaggerated bullshit arguments are all secretly true.

That's the argument style of fearmongering:

1. Make up bullshit stories
2. Bullshit stories don’t happen.
3. When someone points out bullshit stories were bullshit:
3a. claim "no one ever said" the stuff in the bullshit stories
3b. while simultaneously also saying "yes, it all happened" and
3c. "it will all happen, just wait".

"The Internet without net neutrality will be a Wild West of extra fees and censorship."

You're why retailers track our returns and sometimes decline them or ban you.

We don't want the capital of Texas to turn into the bay area. You can keep your leftist attitudes and taxes where they are.

Then grow some balls, learn from the French and go out there and break something. Bring all your buddies. Burn some shit down. Go torch a couple of Apple stores. They will get the message quick and retreat. Note how quickly Macron folded and gave up his fossil fuel Climate Tax once a couple hundred thousand Frenchies took to the streets.

Problem with you red state "conservatives" is that all you do is sit on you fat asses drinking beer and watching NASCAR. You don't actually *do* anything when action is needed. Only whine and gripe on your keyboard and talk radio.

BTW I'm completely serious, if you get even 10,000 angry marchers I'll bet you Apple leaves town in a hurry.

I wonder how she will pull that off, given the GPS tracker she must wear and the security team that must escort her everywhere she goes.

I get it, she's rich, but its still QUITE an operation she would have to pull in order to escape the country.

She's rich, she doesn't have to jump bail to stay out of jail. Heck, if you're rich enough you can be a pedophile and still avoid jail time.

Would be neat if we found the same thing on Mars.

Turns out we kind of did; the probes we sent were perhaps not sterilized well enough.

Re: "We can view the Universe through different lenses... Electricity and Magnetism could be one of them... ? It just seems we are too eager to label things as crackpot. Often times the 'crackpots' have been right."

Astronomer and cosmologist, Martín López Corredoira, has importantly noted:

"A superficial view may lead us to think that we live in the golden age of science but the fact is that the present-day results of science are mostly mean, unimportant, or just technical applications of ideas conceived in the past ..."

A 1963 interview with James van Allen made the point in big bold letters at the top of the page:

"Space was invented on Earth before we knew what was out there."

There is an important historical aspect to what is happening which makes sense of it all: The gravitational universe idea is a legacy concept - akin to vigorously asserting the importance of MS-DOS in 2018. The idea comes from a time when people burned whale oil in gas lamps to read at night - (1) when the Milky Way was thought to be all there was; (2) when that single galaxy was assumed to be just a pile of stars; (3) when all we could see was disconnected points of light; (4) when astronomers did not even realize that radio waves come from space; and (5) when it was assumed that the space between stars was mostly empty. Think about the collective implication of each of these assumptions: (2) through (5) all leave the impression that gravity must dominate at the largest scales. Today we know better about (2) through (5), but few are actually thinking through the implications of the historical changes.

Today, we understand that (1) the Milky Way is one of many galaxies; (2) we now realize that galaxies can be incredibly dynamic objects; (3) we can now see the connections between those points of light; (4) we now understand that optical is just a small sliver of the universe's total emissions; and (5) we today understand that not only is there significant matter between stars, but it is additionally conductive. These were all surprises, and aside from (1), they point to electricity - yet the gravitational ideas which came from that former time continue to dominate.

Consider the rapid pace at which things change in the Node.js community. If you don't pay attention for just a few months, you could find yourself having to repeatedly interject, "what's that?" Astrophysics is the exact opposite of this. There is no real innovation happening, no actual theorizing going on:

"Just look at almost any research paper in astronomy, or astrophysics. What are they doing? They are interpreting evidence on the basis of existing knowledge and “accepted standards” of reasoning and argument. They may come up with alternative theories, where one says it’s this, another says it’s that. They may fight over such alternative theories. But all the theories are ultimately based on the same fundamental assumptions. There’s no actual hypothesizing going on."

Without new hypotheses to explain the new, unexpected observations, our ideas about the universe have not kept pace with the rapid observational advancements:

"All of the theoretical work that's been done since the 1970s has not produced a single successful prediction," says Neil Turok, director of the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Waterloo, Canada.

We would be very wise to take a closer look at the many surprises which have occurred since these old ideas were origina

Or Tennessee...

I didn't write rape, I wrote "sexual assault." There's a reason for that.

Pedantic distinction without a difference.

And authorities only allow you to travel when they've absolutely cleared you from charges. Oh, wait... they do that all the time when people are still under investigation too.

Not if you believe there's merit to the allegations and you're dealing with a foreign national that has made it clear he's about to leave the country. Then they release you from custody but keep your passport.

to Sweden refusing to promise they wont hand Assange over to the United States

Why should they? Have they done that before? Do they normally offer guarantees to such treatment to people that they question?

Do you comment on many subjects at length where you have a comical level of ignorance, or just this one? In 2001, Sweden arrested a couple of men and handed them over to the CIA to be tortured. That by itself makes Assange's fear of extradition a matter of common sense, not paranoia. Since then, Obama launched more prosecutions of whisteblowers than all previous presidents combined, had one tortured for eighteen months before finding her guilty in a kangaroo court. The current Secretary of State is a big fan of torture, and the current head of the CIA is a torturer.

Hell, not only is Assange in the right to want extradition to the US blocked, Sweden is actually required to do so as a signatory to the UN Convention Against Torture, which forbids countries from extraditing to regimes that practice it. Regimes like the United States. But Sweden has ignored that treaty before - thus Assange's more than reasonable request that Sweden go on the record that this really is just about getting him to answer questions about an alleged rape.

Why is Sweden so much more convenient to pull Assange from than the United Kingdom -- where he was let out on bail from December 2011 to June 2012 -- which has a "special relationship" with the UK?

1) See above 2) see recent case where UK courts blocked the extradition of an accused hacker to the United States because of America's brutal prison system. The same prison system that saw Manning tortured and found guilty under unlawful command influence.

Can't even make up your own insult. Sad.

Obviously, it was throwing your BS back in your face. Obviously.

Oh, by the way, you skipped the whole "bail jumping" thing... probably because that act is indefensible.

You think UK police spend millions of pounds on every bail jumping case? Assange has offered to answer questions via video chat or in person if Swedish investigators come to the embassy in London. Sweden has done just that in dozens of other cases since Assange was granted asylum, so neither they nor you have any excuse here. And Assange has offered to give up his asylum and return to Sweden if they promise not to hand him over to the United States. Even if you think Assange is bluffing, Ecuador would no longer have a reason to grant him asylum.

So the allegations are so serious as to swear out an INTERPOL warrant and for the UK to spend millions of pounds keeping Assange under siege, yet Sweden has refused to make a simple promise that would have seen Assange back in their custody in a matter of days. Which tells anyone with two functioning brain cells that this isn't about an alleged rape and never was.

Data shows that coral-based islands (like the Marshalls) are growing. Eighty percent are either stable or growing. Tuvalu has added 3% more land in the last 50 years, and the Maldives, which famously held a cabinet meeting underwater to show their nation is doomed has no change in land area over the last 60 years.

Coral atolls grow higher when sea levels rise. The question is one of rates. As long as the sea level rises are slow enough, the atolls will be more or less fine. But if the water rises faster than the corals can grow, they'll be inundated. Massive corals of the sort that make up these atoll reefs can grow up to 5mm per year. Over the 20th century the average annual sea level increase was 1.7mm. No problem, they can keep up with that. Since the 90s the rate has averaged 3.2mm per year. The corals can handle that, too... but the rate doesn't have to accelerate much more to overwhelm them.

Indeed, even at current rates, islands are having problems. I was on Rarotonga last month, in the Cook Islands. Natives there told me that their lagoons used to be two to three times deeper than they are now. The problem is that seas are crashing higher over the reefs and depositing more sand, causing the lagoons to fill in. This has created problems for fishing and for the tourist industry (snorkeling in a foot of water isn't much fun). However, it's expected that over the next 20 years the waves will rise higher yet and begin removing sand from the lagoons and the beaches, reversing the shallowing trend and then beginning to eat away at the island. Rarotonga will be fine; it's volcanic and rises over 2000 feet above sea level at its highest point. At worst people will have to move inland a little bit. But it could easily devastate the already-fragile island economy.

I was also on Mangaia and they're facing a different problem. Much of the island's fresh water supply comes from inland lakes which flow through tunnels in the makatea (fossil coral) to the ocean. But sea levels have risen enough that during storms water now flows in through the tunnels, turning the lakes brackish. This is having serious effects on the island ecosystems as well as making fresh water harder to come by.

The bottom line is that for many islanders, climate change is already having very real and very visible effects, mostly due to rising sea levels. And it's going to get much worse. And many low-lying coral atolls may just disappear when the rate of sea level rise exceeds the rate at which the corals can grow.

Data shows that coral-based islands (like the Marshalls) are growing. Eighty percent are either stable or growing. Tuvalu has added 3% more land in the last 50 years, and the Maldives, which famously held a cabinet meeting underwater to show their nation is doomed has no change in land area over the last 60 years.