Slashdot Mirror

For clarification, we'll have to split the term "game play" into various points.

One point is the controller. There's no way to use Wii-like gamepads for SWF. Another point is what actions are done with the controller. For a number of games, the Wii controller is used in a point and shoot method. This is easily done with a mouse and target. Any of the gamepad button actions can be done with a keyboard. What a mouse and keyboard can't do is the spatial motion movement. For some Wii games, that's the whole point. For others it's a gimmick. And still for others it's not needed.

So the controller part of "game play" can only sometimes be done with mouse and a keyboard. But one could argue that the whole point of any Wii game is to stand up, flailing your arms about.

Other aspects of gameplay are how well you can move about and do actions, responsiveness, repetitive and non-repetitive actions, etc, etc.

While the complexity of the top end Wii games are not found in Flash games (who would want to wait for a 1GB Flash game to load in their browser?), many, many Wii games are not complex at all, and Nintendo makes quite a bit of cash from these. Hence, people are buying them because they don't need such complexity.

There are tons of 2d games, or barely 3d games for the Wii and SWF.

These may not be the games that you might buy, or even the ones that get good reviews, but many people do buy them as they line the walls of the game shops. A lot of Wii buyers are looking for these "easy access" games. I assume the audience for most of these games are children before adolescence and adults who only casually play games.

These can be called "throwaway games". The Wii is saturated with them. I'm surprised the Wii audience expects to pay more than $0.00 for these games. Perhaps many are attracted by the gimmick of the Wii controller. But also many of them are actually "fun"! At least for a little while.

For one anecdotal example, I really like the so-called "brain training" games on the Wii and the DS, but they can easily be done in Flash.

So, their revenue model is still working for now, but people are buying games that can now be reproducible in something as simple as Flash. And since the market is saturated in similar games, they are not as valuable as the money people are shelling out for them. More importantly, people are having FUN with these games. So the graphics and complexity are now at a point where many people can have fun without needing more. As KDR_11K put it in the post above you, these games are "still not too low for the customer's demands so the big guy just spent a whole lot of money on something that failed to give him a competitive advantage". They've "overshot the majority of customers".

I haven't even started on independent developers like S2 Games that actually make decent 3d multiplayer games like Savage 2 and Heroes of Newerth (still in closed beta). But these kinds of games play a roll as well.

Savage is a combination RTS/FPS with both Linux and Windows versions.

Not quite the same thing, of course, as both modes require a full-blown PC. But interesting, nonetheless.

Just as a note, Savage2 - A tortured Soul is now available for free too.

http://savage2.s2games.com

Savage 2

has no DRM: download the Linux or Windows client, check out the demo, create an account ($20, once) and play for as long as you want from any computer. It is independently developed/published/distributed by the nice folks at S2Games.

You can play Savage 2 as a RTS (if you are the team's commander) or FPS (everyone else). It's pretty addictive, but you have to spend some time to master the melee system.

Well its a long shot but Savage?

http://www.s2games.com/savage/

The first one is free to play now and both 1st and 2nd run on Linux without wine.

Its not an RTS per say but it still pretty damn fun.

I feel your pain I long for a RTS and after 10 of starcraft its just not cutting it when i know starcraft 2 is coming soon. I think that will be the biggest test of my linux only plan i really want to be able to play starcraft 2 the min it comes out. I guess I'll deal with that when it comes maybe it will play good enough on wine.

Bork bork bork!

Don't forget Savage, worth a mention as they've been supporting Linux for years. They're Indy too, no DRM bullshit, just good games.

Don't forget , worth a mention as they've been supporting Linux for years. They're Indy too, no DRM bullshit, just good games.

Speaking of non-Windows-only games, the guys at S2games have released a native binary of Savage2 for Linux. I could always use more people to play with, so grab the free 5-hour full demo and come play a great FPS-RTS with me. /end plug

Linux Games..

http://savage2.s2games.com/main.php
http://www.eve-online.com/
http://www.wesnoth.org/
http://www.flightgear.org/
http://www.freeciv.org/
http://www.sauerbraten.org/
http://www.scorched3d.co.uk/
http://wz2100.net/
http://www.cubeengine.com/
http://lincity-ng.berlios.de/
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/
http://www.wormux.org/
http://www.secretmaryo.org/
http://www.ufoai.net/
http://www.bzflag.org/
http://tremulous.net/
http://www.eternal-lands.com/
http://www.enemyterritory.com/

Perhaps you could stop with the "No games for Linux" BS already as you obviously have your head up your ass.

You could play Savage2, a "next gen" game released by an independent developer. It has a native linux binary. /end shameless plug

http://savage2.s2games.com/main.php ... game loaded with free linux 32 bits and linux 64 bits clients... But what is the relationship with that news?? Well adobe not able to provide photoshop on linux 32 bits and 64 bits? Ok their devs suck big time.

Shameless plug for a good game:

The Savage2 team is planning on releasing a native linux client within the next couple of weeks. Currently it's only available on Windows, but it's a pretty fun game. It's like the original Savage, but better.

One of the only, and probably the best maker of the FPS/RTS hybrid would be S2 Games http://www.s2games.com/

Savage was their first attempt, in which one player commanded his troops via a top down RTS interface, complete with build orders, tech upgrades, and the ability to select units and order them around the map. The kicker was, those units were other players on the team playing an FPS version of the game and doing all the combat, territory conquest, scouting, and in some cases helping construct buildings.

Savage 2 just released in 2008 and seems to be another winner. They have built upon the same idea but added some RPG-ish elements such as persistant items and stat modification. I haven't had much time to play lately, but there is a free demo that lets you play relatively unrestricted for 5 hours or so before you purchase.

This is another great independent studio exploring the digital download distribution model and giving us great games at great prices without all that BS publisher overhead.

Linux client is just delayed; they released Savage 1 on linux. That game, by the way, is free to play. http://www.s2games.com/savage/downloads.php

Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with S2, nor am I a fan of their game, just their business model.

Any of the IGF games run on Linux and/or OS X?

For now I'm still happy with the IGF 2004 finalist Savage.

Is there a reason why this subject has popped up just when they are about to announce the beta of Savage 2?

Savage was a pretty fun RTS/FPS.

Drop Team
X2:The Threat
Savage 2
Unreal Tournament 2007
Enemy Territory:Quake Wars

http://savage2.s2games.com/ -- linux client at launch, absolute best game there is. What more could you want?

Second of all, there is room to have a game where there is a single commander per team, and people can jump into vehicles/units and control them, taking direction from the commander like any other unit, or ignoring them.

Savage is exactly what you describe.

Or... how about: Something -completely- different from the ones you mentioned.
The problem with these Open Source games is that they lack quality (as in, visual quality): When having to choose between CS (which can be bought for about 5 bucks nowadays) and this engine replicating the exact same gameplay: Most people wouldn't bother with this.

One of the few ways how such a project can be picked up imo, is if it's different than the rest of what's out there: And for projects like these there are no constraints from any publishers/outsiders: Only their own imagination.

Savage (an RTS/FPS hybrid),while not open source, is a perfect example of this.
If you haven't played Savage allready, be sure to give it some playtime, since they just released it as Freeware :D : For more info/download links go to this site.

Upcoming Savage 2 will be downloads, not retail. Coming out this summer. It's a team-based fps where each team has a commander who's playing a rts; commander researches weapons, starts buildings which the fps-style players build, etc. First one came out maybe 3 years ago, and people are still playing and modding. I can't stop playing because of the melee system, which makes it way different from a bunnyhop orgy like cs, and the team-oriented goals, where it actually pays off to use teamwork.

-Skavj "sounds like astroturf, but I swear, I'm a real person! with feelings!" Binsk

I have enjoyed lots of games from indie devs lately, and i also bought them all.
http://introversion.co.uk/ have some interesting games, their latest is called Darwinia and is published through Steam, i think they are about to become big, available in both Linux, Mac and Windows. They are also playing with a new game, visit their page!
http://s2games.com/ - these guys have made Savage, an rpg-fps genre with a cool community and great servers with a lot of teamplay and fun. For Linux and Windows. Savage 2 is underway and i have pre-subscribed to get access to the beta-test.

It seems that systems like Steams can help indie devs a lot to get out to people, it certainly helped Introversion a lot.

Let's not forget Savage and Unreal Tournament 2004 with their direct LINUX products, and the whole slew of things the kind folks at Loki port and work on.

This is why we need to support great independent games like http://s2games.com/ Get out there and support a independent developer!

That and you should get the up-to-date drivers for your video card, and verify that the refresh rates in your desktop settings match your expectations.

Running the same game on the same PC dual-booted to Windows will get 80fps while the same game on LINUX will get 125fps on ye ol' AGP nVidia 6600. Native versions of the game, mind you, not any kind of emulator.

You mean a game like Savage?

***GAME DEVELOPERS*** do not support Linux. Not the other way around.

No. The business model does not support Linux. Publishers decide that the Linux gamer marketshare is not worth the extra time/effort/money to develop on Linux. As soon as someone thinks it's profitable it will be done. And hopefully it'll be done better than Savage was done, with critical bugs that went unpatched for over two months.

The official site.

I've heard about the "commander" mode, or "role", but don't know all that much about it. Is it at all similar to how the Commander role works in Savage? What else are people really looking forward to? Is this one supposed to be more friendly with on-screen text? BF 1942 was awful with that, it was sometimes unreadable. Vietnam I think was a bit better but far from great.

Are there vehicles that play really differently than what's available in BF 1942 or Vietnam? One thing that was both good and bad in that one was the realism of the vehicles. It was good in that there were lots of vehicles, all of which were driveable, but it was bad because the realism mix just wasn't right. On one hand, one person could "crew" a tank completely, driving it, shooting, etc. There was a place for a second person, but their role was pretty useless -- just a machine gunner or something. On the other hand, the look and abilities of the tanks was vaguely realistic. I think it would have been much more interesting if you *needed* a crew of 3 to make a tank work, and in a ship you could either fire the main guns, or move the ship, not both.

Anyhow, I'll have to check out the demo, see what's new...

Then you should be playing Savage, which has precisely this set-up. Windows & Linux versions.

Cheers,
Toby Haynes

For another hybrid of FPS/RTS ; Have a look at the (commercial) Savage : Battle for Newerth ;
If you can't afford the game, be sure to check out their excellent demo.
More info at http://www.s2games.com/

There is but one single lonesome professional Software studio who's officially supported Linux from the get-go and also advertised it. They've got one of the best multiplayer-games I've ever played, and yet still they don't get mentioned here. That's sad and shows how serious the Linux community are about good games on Linux.
If you want a cool, up to date professional Linux compliant multiplayer game, do yourself and the developers a favour and check out Savage!. ...AND FUCKING BY IT! IT'S ONLY 19$ BY NOW FOR THE DL/KEYODE VERSION!

I guess this is not new to any of you. But FYI, there is a game Savage: http://www.s2games.com/savage/index.html which have the same concept of RTS + FPS. It has been out 1 to 2 years I guess. And it can natively run on Linux and PC.

1. the only game i've seen that has a real spectator mode is ghost recon... ghost recon allows you to just ghost people... you dont have to pick a team or anything... oh yeah, RTCW has this also...

I guess I'm spoiled. Savage has a really nice spectator mode as well as a unique commander mode and other views of the game.

At any time, pressing TAB brings up the player stats per team, and with SEP (Savage Enhancement Project). While playing the game, pressing Alt and Ctrl bring up team damage details and current tech available. Quite nifty.

The s/n was valid though, since the s/n generator had been reverse engineered as mentioned in the story.

If your release is small enough, a better solution is to do what the people that made Savage used, which is to randomly generate each s/n. That way it's nearly impossible to guess a valid s/n and impossible to reverse engineer it. Doesn't work so well if you're microsoft, but works well for a smaller release.

1. X-gamings site seems to be more fluff than substance. Having a hard time determining what games they support.

Click on the link to the left marked games. I'd provide a link, though the site is /.ed at the moment!

The database classifies each game from 1 (can't run at all let alone even install) to 5 (perfect). Transgaming supports games marked as 5 (a small group), though to be practical most of the games with a 4 raiting are quite playable.

The games each have comments, so don't take the number to be the final judgement Read The Fine Forum.

Note: Many (but not most) of the problems running games under Wine or WineX are due to copy protection. WineX supports copy protection and eliminates the need to deal with patches.

Last year I used WineX to run Civilization III, Diablo II, Black & White, and other games. Do not expect it to run everything, though the list of 4s and 5s is long enough to keep you busy. The only hassle was a bit of jerkyness in CivIII during the intro video...otherwise, it was good.

That said, maybe you should get a good native Linux game like Savage instead? (Available for Windows too.)

It's not Doom, but still fun packed hours of killing-spree mayhem. Try Savage. There are both Windows and Linux versions for the same free (as in beer) nearly full-featured demo and low-low buy-in for the full version.

With Natural Selection, Uskaarj, Unreal Annihilation, Warcraft III FPS mod, and Empires all blending or totally converting between game genres and/or engines, there seems to be an interesting trend of "breaking the rules" or using a game very differently than it was originally intended. Is this a gimmick, first notably commercialized by Savage or do you think it will keep its place on the game-store shelves?

You mean like Savage? Fairly new game, it's basically what you just described. Commanders see the game as an RTS while people in "Action mode" play a FPS.

It doesn't mention any OS, so I must assume this is a MSWin only thing.

That would be very bad. Awful, even. S2 Games, with their release of Savage on both Windows and Linux platforms, has raised the bar. I would like to see these folks rise to meet it.

Bob-

Most of the early Savage games were predictable; rush forward, get mines, build, and put up some towers to protect what you've built. Specific maps had "the way" to win. Anything else was ignored. After about a month, the commanders figured out that this didn't always work...other commanders were being quite inventive. Sneeky warriors would hide, build a garrison, and use that to attack as a group...swamping the enemy's defenses. Games are now either a few minutes long or up to a good 2 hours. Individual achievements matter; if you don't take out that tower by any means possible...your team won't win! If you don't stand on that bridge and defeat 5+ opponents...your base may fall.

So, the one cheesy move? Bunny hopping in hand-to-hand combat; jumping up and down repeatedly. It takes the skill out of fighting and makes the game much less intesting to play. Players are regularly banned (temporarily) from servers if they do it and don't stop.

Side note: It's only $20 now. Was $40. Servers are fairly well populated, and games of 30-60 are common. Plays on Windows or Linux -- both server and clients.

Trailer video

Gameplay video

Download playable demo

Most of the early Savage games were predictable; rush forward, get mines, build, and put up some towers to protect what you've built. Specific maps had "the way" to win. Anything else was ignored. After about a month, the commanders figured out that this didn't always work...other commanders were being quite inventive. Sneeky warriors would hide, build a garrison, and use that to attack as a group...swamping the enemy's defenses. Games are now either a few minutes long or up to a good 2 hours. Individual achievements matter; if you don't take out that tower by any means possible...your team won't win! If you don't stand on that bridge and defeat 5+ opponents...your base may fall.

So, the one cheesy move? Bunny hopping in hand-to-hand combat; jumping up and down repeatedly. It takes the skill out of fighting and makes the game much less intesting to play. Players are regularly banned (temporarily) from servers if they do it and don't stop.

Side note: It's only $20 now. Was $40. Servers are fairly well populated, and games of 30-60 are common. Plays on Windows or Linux -- both server and clients.

Trailer video

Gameplay video

Download playable demo

Most of the early Savage games were predictable; rush forward, get mines, build, and put up some towers to protect what you've built. Specific maps had "the way" to win. Anything else was ignored. After about a month, the commanders figured out that this didn't always work...other commanders were being quite inventive. Sneeky warriors would hide, build a garrison, and use that to attack as a group...swamping the enemy's defenses. Games are now either a few minutes long or up to a good 2 hours. Individual achievements matter; if you don't take out that tower by any means possible...your team won't win! If you don't stand on that bridge and defeat 5+ opponents...your base may fall.

So, the one cheesy move? Bunny hopping in hand-to-hand combat; jumping up and down repeatedly. It takes the skill out of fighting and makes the game much less intesting to play. Players are regularly banned (temporarily) from servers if they do it and don't stop.

Side note: It's only $20 now. Was $40. Servers are fairly well populated, and games of 30-60 are common. Plays on Windows or Linux -- both server and clients.

Trailer video

Gameplay video

Download playable demo

Most of the early Savage games were predictable; rush forward, get mines, build, and put up some towers to protect what you've built. Specific maps had "the way" to win. Anything else was ignored. After about a month, the commanders figured out that this didn't always work...other commanders were being quite inventive. Sneeky warriors would hide, build a garrison, and use that to attack as a group...swamping the enemy's defenses. Games are now either a few minutes long or up to a good 2 hours. Individual achievements matter; if you don't take out that tower by any means possible...your team won't win! If you don't stand on that bridge and defeat 5+ opponents...your base may fall.

So, the one cheesy move? Bunny hopping in hand-to-hand combat; jumping up and down repeatedly. It takes the skill out of fighting and makes the game much less intesting to play. Players are regularly banned (temporarily) from servers if they do it and don't stop.

Side note: It's only $20 now. Was $40. Servers are fairly well populated, and games of 30-60 are common. Plays on Windows or Linux -- both server and clients.

Trailer video

Gameplay video

Download playable demo

Most of the early Savage games were predictable; rush forward, get mines, build, and put up some towers to protect what you've built. Specific maps had "the way" to win. Anything else was ignored. After about a month, the commanders figured out that this didn't always work...other commanders were being quite inventive. Sneeky warriors would hide, build a garrison, and use that to attack as a group...swamping the enemy's defenses. Games are now either a few minutes long or up to a good 2 hours. Individual achievements matter; if you don't take out that tower by any means possible...your team won't win! If you don't stand on that bridge and defeat 5+ opponents...your base may fall.

So, the one cheesy move? Bunny hopping in hand-to-hand combat; jumping up and down repeatedly. It takes the skill out of fighting and makes the game much less intesting to play. Players are regularly banned (temporarily) from servers if they do it and don't stop.

Side note: It's only $20 now. Was $40. Servers are fairly well populated, and games of 30-60 are common. Plays on Windows or Linux -- both server and clients.

Trailer video

Gameplay video

Download playable demo

Most of the early Savage games were predictable; rush forward, get mines, build, and put up some towers to protect what you've built. Specific maps had "the way" to win. Anything else was ignored. After about a month, the commanders figured out that this didn't always work...other commanders were being quite inventive. Sneeky warriors would hide, build a garrison, and use that to attack as a group...swamping the enemy's defenses. Games are now either a few minutes long or up to a good 2 hours. Individual achievements matter; if you don't take out that tower by any means possible...your team won't win! If you don't stand on that bridge and defeat 5+ opponents...your base may fall.

So, the one cheesy move? Bunny hopping in hand-to-hand combat; jumping up and down repeatedly. It takes the skill out of fighting and makes the game much less intesting to play. Players are regularly banned (temporarily) from servers if they do it and don't stop.

Side note: It's only $20 now. Was $40. Servers are fairly well populated, and games of 30-60 are common. Plays on Windows or Linux -- both server and clients.

Trailer video

Gameplay video

Download playable demo

Here's a transcript of the voice over so you can get an idea, "In a Savage age, beyond the fall of civilization, a leader will rise. To rebuild and restore what once was. The days of uncontested human domination are over, two armies in sight, the smell of battle is in the air, and the drums of war begin a dance of death. Victory or extinction? Glory or defeat? The very hand of fate lies in the warrior grip, of the Savage."

Please note I don't work for s2 games, just a happy customer.

Savage is a team FPS where one player commands the team RTS style. There's a linux version available which I've found tends to run faster than its windows counterpart. As far as this game goes, the balance is so subtle that any changes made by server admins can completely ruin the dynamics of the game... fortunately this rarely happens and I think s2games run quite a number of servers themselves (though I don't use them because I'm in europe).