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WinCE still exists on products that are sold right now . PalmOS doesn't. I think WinCE beat it just fine.

Now I'm going to go back to work on this custom barcode scanning application I'm developing for a client that uses some devices running Windows Mobile 6.5 (WinCE 5.2 kernel, pre-Windows Phone 7) and Windows Enhanced Handheld 6.5 (WinCE 5.2 kernel with some userspace enhancements backported from Windows Phone 7). These devices use real barcode imagers, not cameras, so, no, a cheap-o Android phone would not suffice. They're ruggedized handheld computers, and they cost around $2k each. This is the level of hardware that runs WinCE.

Remind me again how WinCE is an also-ran? Oh, yeah, that's right. It's not. It's just not used for anything glamorous. It gets real work done. Isn't that the measure by which Linux is supposedly better than Windows? Sounds like a double-standard to me.

Meanwhile, my iPhone has been abandoned in a box in my closet for 4 years and my Android phone has only three jobs: Cellphone use (calls, texting, etc.), Bejeweled-clone when I'm trying to bore myself to sleep, and sucking power from a USB port. So, yeah, "glamorous" ain't all it's cracked up to be.

This isn't really too surprising. When they purchased Symbol Technologies they were making a play for the wireless networking IP. I really didn't think they were very interested in holding on to the bar code scanning end of that business. Symbol is a big player in my industry so I'm very interested to see how those technologies get split up. I suppose we'll be getting much better details soon (or maybe I could have RTFA).

Actually Palm has a history of providing unencrypted ROM images for their devices and explaining how to create your own ROM dumps from a device especially to registered developers. There are also numerous tools designed to allow people to customize these ROM images and install them on their devices some of which are supported by the device manufactures.

I doubt releasing the root image for the Pre was unintentional and I highly doubt Palm will do anything to discourage people customizing the root image and adding their own applications.

That was a whole different era. Since then Palm has been restructured a half dozen times, and fallen quite hard from their former glory as the #1 handheld platform. The new devices have all kinds of features the old ones didn't - features that some people won't want you to use with complete liberty. I don't think you can take it for granted that they'll continue playing by the rules they followed in the days of POSE and copilot.

Actually Palm has a history of providing unencrypted ROM images for their devices and explaining how to create your own ROM dumps from a device especially to registered developers. There are also numerous tools designed to allow people to customize these ROM images and install them on their devices some of which are supported by the device manufactures.

I doubt releasing the root image for the Pre was unintentional and I highly doubt Palm will do anything to discourage people customizing the root image and adding their own applications.

Oops, maybe I was high. I was thinking of Symbol devices :o

That same article explained why: Apple wants the iPhone to work reliably, not to be known as a toy that can load various shareware apps, but which freezes erratically and is plagued with spyware and security hazards.

The Orwellian double-speak is mind-boggling. This is the world according to an Apple fanboy:

A device that can be adapted to do anything within the limits of technology and security: a toy.
A device that does only what Apple product managers and Cingular marketers think you should be allowed to do with it: apparantly, not a toy.

Here's a little trivia: the Apple store uses either Symbol or Intermec-based handheld devices to scan products. These devices run either Palm OS or Windows CE. Apple uses toys to manage its invetory.

My assumption in this case is that the RFID technology will be of some standard similar to those stated in my parent post (ISO 15693, 14443 or other HF standards). In this case, the tags are inductively coupled with the reader antenna primarily through the Magnetic field produced by the current through the antenna wire. This field loses strength very quickly as you move from the source which means a VERY limited read range. The technologies mentioned (UHF and WiFi) interact with the Electromagnetic field which propagates nicely through the air and thus gives longer range. (we can, of course, try to discuss all the lovely physics if needed, but this is my attempt at simplification)

Basically, my point is that while I concede it is possible to hack into RFID credit cards, it is NOT as easy as many like to believe, and I don't feel nearly as threatened as some would suggest I should feel. Also, RFID is NOT one technology. It is a mishmash of all kinds of different standards comprising multiple frequencies and technologies and so should not be lumped together as the one evil tech it is commonly identified as.

How many people *have to* play Oblivion as *their work* ?
(I mean, really. Not what's the average slashdotter's dream).

Look around : in most enterprise, computer are just used for basic office work and accessing the intranet/googling information from the internet.

A lot of enterprise (inssurance companies, etc...) are starting to use laptops as working station for their employee, because it's easier for them to move their data around with them, faster to relocate them to different office, lets them work at home or in their train etc...

And docking a laptop to nice big screen and a full sized keyboard, isn't that much different than hooking a smartphone/PDA to those same peripherals. The only difference is in the "work in their train" part, where the Smartphone/PDA user loose some screen/keyboard estate.
(although there're nice fullsized foldable keyboards. I use one with my Palm. And in some professions having a pocketable unit is BETTER than a laptop. HINT: Doctors. We like to have drugs database on pockter-sized devices that are much more handy than carying around a full sized laptop when visiting patients)

Now look at the current trends in products :
- foldable keyboard (like Thinkoutside's, Targus', etc...)
- or even laser virtual keyboards
- smart phone that can be hooked to TV-Set and Projectors (initially designed so you can watch the nice picture you took with you phone. But now company realised that they can market them as "able to display your PowerPoint presentation without a PC !!!")
- Laser-based matchbox-sized Projectors are currently researched.

So yes, your home made l33t Beige Box is more powerful.
But for a corporate worker it is also clunky.

Tomorrow traveling salesman are very likely to have their work stored on their Smartphone/PDA.
(Even today some doctors keep their patient's medical imaging handy in iPods - Powerful radiology stations are nice, but taking an iPod to a patient's bed is easier).

Exactly, this story completely undermines the entire argument that the patent system somehow benefits small inventors--it doesn't.

SURE, this guy won in the end... AFTER 25 YEARS. How many countless other inventors have simply given up? Would this guy have been able to also patent new ideas or defend other contested patents during this time period?

I'm not sure what he "won". And this just reinforces the patent theory that the person with the most money wins all patent disagreements.

First, being that 8-tracks were introduced into cars in 1966 and not in home units until a year later, there was already a desire and some innovation in the portable music market at the time. This guy made is first walkman like thing in the late '60s to early '70s. To me, there is not too much of a difference between a self contained modular radio and tape player that works off of a battery in a car and plays on slightly larger speakers vs a more portable personal unit. Headphones already existed, the form factor was pretty much there, the media was there, and batteries were there.

I know this is anti-slashdot-groupthink, because this is a little guy who was "wronged" by the big guy and the system, but this is about some guy who was probably getting high, listening to music with his friends, and said, "Dude, it would be cool to be able to walk down the road outside and listen to music". The article does not mention that he ever made anything or had a prototype, but rather had an idea that he was unable to sell to a series of companies. He filed a patent, and got a TV job, and then went after a Japanese company that marked _and_ made the best portable models at a reasonable price. Sony started putting these out in '79, I got my first "walkman" that was GE I believe in '81, and it sucked compared to Sony models, but was cheaper.

Sony was the name in portable media playback and recording. They have always been big in the video and audio market, especially with enthusiasts and professionals. Look here for a late 70s cassette recorder http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sony-TC-153SD-pro-portable-c assette-recorder_W0QQitemZ7568330640QQcategoryZ211 45QQcmdZViewItem Look here for the Sony timeline of electronics http://www.sony.ca/sonyca/about_chronology.shtml For those that don't know, Sony portable cassette recorders and then DATs were the defacto standard for concert recordings for years because of their quality in terms of being rugged and fidelity. I can't tell you how many Grateful Dead recordings I have that were recorded on a Sony cassette recorder or a Sony DAT.

Personally, I don't think this guy deserves a dime for sitting at home thinking of a portable music player, any more than I should get paid for sitting here thinking of traveling of the speed of light or living on the Moon or Mars.

Patents basically mean nothing. If you don't make anything from your patent, you just suck and are inhibiting innovation and the proliferation of the idea into reality. If you do make something and have a patent on it, again you suck because you expect royalties from companies that are being competitive in terms of price for a known item that should be a commodity instead of a monopolized product See this url, http://www.symbol.com/products/barcode_scanners/ba rcode_handheld_ls_4000.html for a good example. Symbol has a patent for bar code readers _with a trigger_. Simply because they patented the obvious, you, me, and every business has to pay an inflated price to read UPC labels on products that are not easily brought up to the counter or for inventory purposes.

To me, intellectual property is no more property than talking shit when drunk or stoned. This guy had the "intellectual property" but could not "sell" it to anybody, nor did he manufacture, market, and sell the product on his own.

The MC50 already does quite a bit of that. It has a camera and a barcode scanner which can easily do all that. Putting the same functionality into a cellphone is not that difficult. I wonder whats up with all the not-so-new-news lately on slashdot.

Symbol has had a similar device that handles 48 access ports (access points stripped of their switching hardware) for about two years now. That's three times what this does.

Yes, it's all in one device. To me, that's a bad idea. With the Xirrus device, you're forced to have all the transceivers in one place, even if it would be better (due to shadowing and multipath issues) to split them into two groups. With the Symbol device, you can split up the access ports however you need them, to cover dead zones, etc.

I mean, you did do a site survey before installing your large-scale wireless network, didn't you?

(Disclaimer: I used to work for Symbol, but I'm not really a Symbol promoter. I don't even have stock.)

I used this several times in Italy and i think it use linux .

It's in use since 1998 and i saw even a lot of old people comfortable using that.

I used this several times in Italy and i think it use linux .

It's in use since 1998 and i saw even a lot of old people comfortable using that.

I get annoyed at the comparisons between closed source and open source. When people think of closed source, they only think of Microsoft, which does things wrong (and annoyingly). I have had a palm since 2002 and I love it, because it doesn't have all the bells and whistles, it is simple and quick. I first bought a visor pro 16mb, after I dropped and cracked that, I bought a palm IIIx, if I drop and break this one, I'll just buy another one for $40, no big deal. Its a shame manufacturers don't value durablitiy in their products. They don't build durable products because people don't want them. I do, though. I used to love my Motorola i700, I could throw it at the ground as hard as I wanted and it was fine. Check these products out. http://www.symbol.com/products/mobile_computers/mo bile_palm.html Note: I know I spelled right wrong, I ran out of space

The handheld Laser Radio Terminals (LRT)[google it] and Portable Data Terminals (PDT) [google it] are made by Symbol Technologies, they run DRDOS and are basically VT100 terminals. The old ones worked at 900Mhz, but the newer ones (within the past 5 years or more) are 2.4Ghz.

You can find data sheets for current Symbol Technologies PDT and scanner products at their web site.

As with notebooks, if you are unable to hold onto to it, get a ruggedized one.

You'll need it to use some of the things a quick Googling reveals.

With the right software, something like this could make a really nice alternative to other high-priced, 'ruggedized' hand-helds.

Instead of any of these USD1500+ devices, I'm using an Audiovox Maestro PDA with a ruggedized case. The PDA cost USD140 on eBay and the case cost ~USD100 with shipping. The biggest cost was the crappy software.

(tig)

Or the Netvision phone my employer has been producing for longer than that... it's been around in frequency-hopping RF models since before WiFi existed (although newer models are WiFi compatible)

Optics.org had an article
this summer about a pair of other pocket projector projects. These includes using an array of lasers to limit scanning or a single higher powered light-source. If 'pocket' is the only thing that matters you might also look into a development of normal bar-code scanners.

Two and a half years ago I played with the Cisco version of this product. Just as previous comment spoke about, this is not news, it offers nothing special. In fact, theCisco SoftPhone is not only a standalone IP phone, but it can also be used to control the 7960, 7940 or 7910. Although that was marginally useful, the java app (I can't remember the product name) that let our receptionists use their computers to monitors lines and transfer calls was really cool. Just open up your browser, login and then enter the extension of your phone. Bang instant operator. Once they got into it (3-4 days) they were handling twice the load they were before...it rocked. Softphone was more of a novelty than anything else though. People seem to like the idea, but either a real IP phone (even a barebones one like the 7910) or even the Cisco ATA 186 analog to ip phone adapter is was more useful than a softphone for most people. And if you want to be untethered, check out the Symbol NetVision phone. (Note, it came out two years ago!)

This is all old news. And by the way, no I don't work for cisco, nor do I work at a company that uses IP telephony now.

• Symbol
  
• Spectralink
  

There are a number of 802.11b VoIP devices currently available on the market.

Cisco makes the 2920 but still requires Cisco call manager as a back end.

and one of the more affordibale and interesting products is the Pulver Innovations WiSIP Phone. (short for WiFi SIP).

As well as other products made by companys like Symblol

Between these and Asterisk, "The Open Source Linux PBX" (which works quite well btw) you can come up with great solutions, and some really neat applications.

Here you go.

There are lots of products (yes I know it's down but that's their website) that integrate barcode scanners into PDA equipment. The dual-function-as-laser-pointer feature I have not yet seen....
We (along with many other retail chains I am sure) are building UPC lookup via barcode PDA applications as we speak. They are rather trivial - the hardest part being designing a good UI

You need to select devices that can be hosed down. That means comercial devices that almost meet NEMA 4. The only way to get rid of goo is soap and water. Retail devies are just not ment for a medical environment. And you must get rid of the goo BEFORE you sterilize. That goo can carry pirons (sp?) even after EtO so plan for soap and water. There are sources of ruggedized tools such as Symbol Technologies. You are going to pay more, but you have a responsability to do it right.

Go to a medical or engineering school and ask for their Bioengineering department and ask for help. This is way over the head of /.

I see a whole lot of their stuff on the way to production. A very smart company, and their forte is hand-held barcode stuff.

It doesn't mention Lunix, but here's a spiel on their embedded wireless LAN stuff.

They already have systems designed for things like warehouses -- check out Symbol for some examples. They tend to be very rugged, and quite expensive. Taking a computer into a dirty environment where its used by people who have no real interest in babying it and may drop it onto concrete is harder than it looks. Add in things like moisture extremes, teperature extremes, forklift mounting (lots of shocks), etc, and a regular tablet isn't going to cut it.

I do believe that they will have a lot of use in the softer fields (like home inspection) though.

Spoke H.323 and allowed you to call by IP addr as well as by E.164 address. Spoke 802.11b.

So, this isn't really a new idea. Just Cisco's edition.

Spoke H.323 and allowed you to call by IP addr as well as by E.164 address. Spoke 802.11b.

So, this isn't really a new idea. Just Cisco's edition.

Let's see if Symbol can deliver.

Oh, you took the words right out of my mouth. In my own experience with Symbol, while they generally do deliver eventually, it's rarely when they say it's going to be. One product in particular that my company purchased from them ( This 802.11b device) was delivered well over a year late, and when we got it, it wouldn't work with our (Cisco) wireless backbone.
So while this device UPS is getting sounds pretty cool, I am rather skeptical that the rollout will be on schedule.

here we go voip cell phone the thought just up and struck me that it was symbol who makes this device. they also are known for their pos equipment.

Ok, I've got it. What we need are bar codes on business cards....

Uhh... don't we already? I mean, I do.

Oh, wait, maybe it's because I work here .

<grin>

Can't help but think that you're trolling, per your sig. But I was curious enough to look at google.

http://www.symbol.com/products/consumer_systems/co nsumer_pss_ls.html

First of all, who actually does grocery shopping thinking "okay I'm only going to spend $20 today". If you need stuff, you need stuff. The scanner has made me more comfortable shopping, at least I know what the bill will be before I get to the checkout.

Secondly, if you DO go shopping with a fixed amount like that, I think the scanner is more useful knowing how close you are to your total, instead of being surprised at the checkout and then having to ask the cashier to take stuff back. Not a pleasant moment for either party.

Symbol's website claims that people spend *more* when they know what their accurate running total is, since they can get closer without running over. I think they might be closer to right than you are.

Psion Teklogix is still in the market...

And Symbol still use Palm OS in their PDA's.

You might want to look at Satellite Forms Mobile App Designer from Pumatech Inc. We provides a RAD tool for Palm and PocketPC. Several users have built extensions for it to read/write to the serial port.

Disclaimer: I work for Pumatech...

2D barcodes can hold up to 2000 or more characters. PDF417 (a 2D symbology) is in the public domain, created by Symbol which allows this many characters. You can download a free PDF417 Generator and roll your own 2D barcodes. The only drawback is that a 2D barcode requires a more precise scanner and technique.

3D Barcodes are indeed 'bumpy' and can even be painted over.

they already have it:

Symbol Technologies and they work pretty good:

http://www.symbol.com/products/wireless/voice_over _ip.html

Also check out IP Blue, a company that sell IP Phones for your IPaq. It works over an 802.11b connection.

Check with Symbol.
They make ruggedized PDAs (both PalmOS & WinCE/PocketPC) for industrial purposes.

Check with Symbol.
They make ruggedized PDAs (both PalmOS & WinCE/PocketPC) for industrial purposes.

These guys have a free demo for reading / writing PDF417 ...

Here is a pretty good summary of the PDF417 format ...

Here is some more information about the PDF417 standard ...

but HERE seems to be a very thorough summary of all of the 2D barcode formats ...

Perhaps you haven't seen this. Symbol is making 802.11b phone and PBX equipment. I saw a few of these phones go for a lot on ebay a while ago, but they do exsist and prices are only going to start comming down.

What, you mean like these?

There is currently one compact flash based 802.11b nic out there, and it's made by Symbol Technologies. As far as I know it's the only way to keep your PDA compact and have LAN connectivity.

[palmos/pocketpc rant]At first these things only worked on PocketPC but Handera technologies has just released a driver for PalmOS, though unfortunately the Handera 330 is the only PalmOS device with a compact flash slot. Palm really needs to do something about this and their tardiness in getting faster hardware to market. Their secure digital connector doesn't seem to be going anywhere and the current 200Mhz PocketPCs will be using 300-400Mhz Intel made StrongARM processors next year while Motorla won't have it's 200Mhz StrongARM processors ready till q3 2002. I know Palm likes Motorola but they have to ditch them if they can't keep up, the Intel processors are also PalmOS 5 compatible.[/rant]

Anywho, Symbol has been very nice in that they have a developer kit for OEM manufacturers to develop drivers for their hardware and it's available here. This Linux PDA company should invest what is relatively a couple bucks in the kit and develop drivers, Symbol has done a good part of the work already and being wirless capable would increase geek appeal, which seems to be a considerable part of the market for this thing. Imagine walking around the house and using your PDA as a remote for everything, especially for queueing up mp3s, obsessively checking email, controlling x10 devices via a server, starting your car, etc.. A wireless PDA adds a lot of potential to the geek dream of building a truly networked, automated household.

I hope the first thing a developer gets working on this is the 802.11 CF card. The PDA has a CF slot and runs kernel 2.4 so hopefully with a little tweaking and a some help from this project we'll have a wireless internet PDA running linux soon. It's all I want to for Christmas.

We bought 5 Symbol SPT 1500's about 2 years ago at UKP350 each. They were the fragilest little things you ever saw. All 5 are now sitting on my desk, with absolutely no hope of getting them running. Moral? You at least need the more sturdy SPT1700 (UKP600+) There is even the CDPD enabled 1733 and GSM based 1734 for wireless WAN applications

As for getting GPS working with them, they are fully functional palm pilots, so any GPS software available for them will work. Palms aren't big on expansion slots, so they will have to plug into the cradle port.

Symbol do have a PocketPC based unit, the SPT2700 (UKP1200+). These have the same options (802.11(& .11b), CDPD, GSM) however they unfortunately run PocketPC ;-)

Recently I have found This, the Psion Teklogix 7510. It is a full PC with a 586 133MHz chip and a hard drive. It has built in scanner and RF options, and 2 internal / 1 external PCMCIA slots. With a 6" screen, it is a perfect little box. You can run whatever operating system you like, and write whatever code you like for them. They are ruggedised and waterproof, and are built for use on forklifts etc, so they should take a bashing and keep working.

The only problem? At $4300 a piece with barcode and 802.11b, they ain't cheap...

We bought 5 Symbol SPT 1500's about 2 years ago at UKP350 each. They were the fragilest little things you ever saw. All 5 are now sitting on my desk, with absolutely no hope of getting them running. Moral? You at least need the more sturdy SPT1700 (UKP600+) There is even the CDPD enabled 1733 and GSM based 1734 for wireless WAN applications

As for getting GPS working with them, they are fully functional palm pilots, so any GPS software available for them will work. Palms aren't big on expansion slots, so they will have to plug into the cradle port.

Symbol do have a PocketPC based unit, the SPT2700 (UKP1200+). These have the same options (802.11(& .11b), CDPD, GSM) however they unfortunately run PocketPC ;-)

Recently I have found This, the Psion Teklogix 7510. It is a full PC with a 586 133MHz chip and a hard drive. It has built in scanner and RF options, and 2 internal / 1 external PCMCIA slots. With a 6" screen, it is a perfect little box. You can run whatever operating system you like, and write whatever code you like for them. They are ruggedised and waterproof, and are built for use on forklifts etc, so they should take a bashing and keep working.

The only problem? At $4300 a piece with barcode and 802.11b, they ain't cheap...

We bought 5 Symbol SPT 1500's about 2 years ago at UKP350 each. They were the fragilest little things you ever saw. All 5 are now sitting on my desk, with absolutely no hope of getting them running. Moral? You at least need the more sturdy SPT1700 (UKP600+) There is even the CDPD enabled 1733 and GSM based 1734 for wireless WAN applications

As for getting GPS working with them, they are fully functional palm pilots, so any GPS software available for them will work. Palms aren't big on expansion slots, so they will have to plug into the cradle port.

Symbol do have a PocketPC based unit, the SPT2700 (UKP1200+). These have the same options (802.11(& .11b), CDPD, GSM) however they unfortunately run PocketPC ;-)

Recently I have found This, the Psion Teklogix 7510. It is a full PC with a 586 133MHz chip and a hard drive. It has built in scanner and RF options, and 2 internal / 1 external PCMCIA slots. With a 6" screen, it is a perfect little box. You can run whatever operating system you like, and write whatever code you like for them. They are ruggedised and waterproof, and are built for use on forklifts etc, so they should take a bashing and keep working.

The only problem? At $4300 a piece with barcode and 802.11b, they ain't cheap...

We bought 5 Symbol SPT 1500's about 2 years ago at UKP350 each. They were the fragilest little things you ever saw. All 5 are now sitting on my desk, with absolutely no hope of getting them running. Moral? You at least need the more sturdy SPT1700 (UKP600+) There is even the CDPD enabled 1733 and GSM based 1734 for wireless WAN applications

As for getting GPS working with them, they are fully functional palm pilots, so any GPS software available for them will work. Palms aren't big on expansion slots, so they will have to plug into the cradle port.

Symbol do have a PocketPC based unit, the SPT2700 (UKP1200+). These have the same options (802.11(& .11b), CDPD, GSM) however they unfortunately run PocketPC ;-)

Recently I have found This, the Psion Teklogix 7510. It is a full PC with a 586 133MHz chip and a hard drive. It has built in scanner and RF options, and 2 internal / 1 external PCMCIA slots. With a 6" screen, it is a perfect little box. You can run whatever operating system you like, and write whatever code you like for them. They are ruggedised and waterproof, and are built for use on forklifts etc, so they should take a bashing and keep working.

The only problem? At $4300 a piece with barcode and 802.11b, they ain't cheap...

You can find some pretty durable stuff at Symbol. It's mostly commercial stuff but they have Pocket PC and PalmOS models and they're really durable.