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Drugs, Computers & Cyberculture
Jett wrote to us with an interesting article concerning
links between drugs, computers and intellectual culture as a whole. The usage of drugs, ranging from hardcore substances to alcohol and such is an interesting intersection within the computer world. One of the other pieces that I've also liked in Feed was Steven Johnson's piece on Everything2.com. And to be straight: Yes, I am involved with Everything2. But it's because I think it's cool.
I myself see less computer users using drugs and any other social group. I also think that the level of alchol use in the geek world is less then the population as a whole.
Dr Fgets Strikes again!
Well, I don't use drugs (okay, the occasional hard cider, yeah!) but I do know some very smart people who do, and work with computers. There are a lot of classic examples here, too.
:) and there's the link between the hacker culture and The Grateful Dead. Of course, hackers and hippies have a link too, which is not surprising, along with hackers and communists, revolutionaries, etc., so it's not surprising that something as "counterculture" as drugs would be in there too.
;)
There's BSD & LSD (maybe required, for Unix development
Or maybe we're just a bunch of posers, I don't know.
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
Judging from all the petrification posts and smargle buttsex trolls, it seems there is no lack of drug users here on slashdot. I figure about 30+ trips of acid at a young age will obtain such a state of mind.
I see just the opposite. All the techies I've known have had a secret interest in mind altering substances. Even though they don't use them very frequently that I've seen, they have generally been interested in exploring their minds using psychedelic drugs. You would be suprised at how many programmers out there take the occasional trip on acid or shrooms for inspiration.
the last several battles in this war have been lost by the government. i think this is why people are experimenting with drugs more and more. as a group, i think geeks see the government quite a bit differently than the general public. we see the american government fail us when it comes to dealing with new technological issues that we all hold dear and understand very well. they made cryptography look like the "black art of terrorists" and tried really hard to keep it weak or out of our hands altogether. looking at government information about drugs made me believe i should form my opinions for similar reasons. i still can't believe that i can buy a carton of cigarettes, a fifth of vodka, and a handful of cheap herbal aphrodesiacs but i can't legally purchase a joint. the war on drugs is a fraud.
from the article
"... MS/DOS and subroutines of the brain can be apprehended by consciousness."
so what does this say about Microsoft?
-- Went home. Had to feed the kids.
While I love the author's works, I never put the Hacking + Drugs connection together before reading his works. (Of course, I was 14 at the time, but that may be irrelevant).
:-)
I'm just curious if his works, the image of Case in the Gentelman Loser (?) was derived from the hacker / drug sub-culture, or if the drug-use only manifested itself later. The breeding grounds (ie University ) for both may intersect, but how much of a cross-over was there between the drug-users and the geek crowd bathed in the glow of their green-screen terminals?
Off hand, the reality-altering effects of drugs and thge virtual worlds that we now have are both 2 different approaches to altering your perception. A 24 hour EQ session will produce largely the same effects (disorientation, inability to focus, difficulty with speech
Besides, whenever I used to surf whacked, all I could manage was a lame 1st post now and then.
--sugarman--
Flamebait or Troll maybe, but not Offtopic. In fact it was explicitly on topic.
A different AC
I'm just curious as to how many hackers and crackers use drugs to enhance their cognitive abilities for brief periods of time? The reason I ask this is because I seem to recall some famous page being hacked a little while back, and the perpetrator leaving a note that had, amongst other things, an apology for his spelling because he was "on methadiachromanphetamines" or something. Anybody have an idea as to what effects amphetamines can have on the problem-solving abilities of the human brain?
Wah!
Who makes up the main force in the computer industry...?
*Young people with problems
*Burned-out idealists
*Raving Loonies
So just be cool, get em' a hot drink and call the Ambulance if they need one. They will be back to coding faster this way.
Play Safe
DaveG (type3)
This article didn't so much link drug usage with technology, as much as talk about one woman's drug usage, and interest in technology. She was interested in authors who used drugs, but offered no particular links between them
Considering why various authors used drugs might make an interesting article. Merely making the point that many have has been done before, and is pointless.
I see some polarisation here. On one hand, many geeks, especially American are rather conservative and do not use drugs. On the other hand, many geeks, often during their college years do use or at least have tried drugs. Some see it as a form of hacking the mind, wich I personally have sometimes experienced. When using psylocybine, I have often felt like debugging my mind.. and getting rid of some nasty errors, and I feel great afterwards. I have used all kinds of substances, but the psychedelics are the only thing that I sometimes still use.
There's an interesting statement in the article regarding the sensory experience in raves and Ecstasy as "training for the Internet and virtual reality." Whereas training has usually been used to refer to media education as a preparation for new media -- insulating ourselves and being aware of extensions to our nervous system -- here it seems that ravers are preparing to become passive to the medium.
At some party I've mostly forgotten (no, it wasn't THAT good) I overheard a woman describing her trip to an unspecified region of Africa and encountering some natives. She showed them the cover of a magazine with a person's face on it; taking the magazine, they turned it over and around in puzzlement as if they did not understand what it was they should be seeing. This woman went on to make fairly derisive comments about these people but I suspect that their only shortcoming was not being trained to recognize the print and flat surface of the image on that magazine as a person's face.
Is it the case that younger generations increasingly exposed to drugs and raves can better appreciate virtual reality or the Internet?
The Government is a large body; if one department calls Criptography a black art, it doesn't mean that is the position of the whole government. That would be like saying that slashdot is bad because some poster said something studpid in one of the forms.
Now, that said, given that the piece was about Everything, it'd have been nice if it had more than about two paragraphs' worth about it without having lots of fluff rambling on and on around it. It seems like a JonKatz article, but even less relevant. :)
---
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
Quine "quine?
Mmmn, Hemos, drugs are bad, mmn-kay?
First posts? Firsts posts are bad, mmn-kay?
Now you're cured! You can take the rest of the afternoon off for personal reflection, mm-kay? Find your own constructive way to better yourselves!
</ACCENT>
(*sound of thousands of Slashdotters scrambling off to smoke pot and hit 'reload' repeatedly....)
--
I think that it is clear that there is a strong connection between the counter-culture aspect of computers, drugs and even modern music.
Cyberpunk fiction is full of recreational drug use. Gibson, Sterling and Effinger all include it as essential parts of the new world morality of the settings of their novels.
The internet itself is a uncontrolled form of communication and their is a large amount of information that is useful to people involved in illegal drug use and crime in general.
It is not that computers are linked to drugs, but that computers are linked to the modern counterculture, and drugs are just a part of that counterculture.
A lot of the original hackers were ex-hippies, and a lot of young computer science students I know are involved in the whole techno subculture. The Matrix is a bad example of this, but it shows that such a link exists in the mind of mass media anyway. I think it is save to say that Neo's punk friends were into some stuff heavier than just a few Heinekens.
"Politics is for the moment, an equation lasts eternity" -A. Einstein
Hackers tend to be more political than anything getting more involved with left-wing political ideals that mind altering substances.
And as someone else pointed out, do we really need drugs when very soon we'll be able to alter our states of mind with VR?
That's basically thr direction Timothy Leary was heading with computers. He was looking for a ming altering experience with computers, as great as his experiences with drugs. He was an Amiga developer and interested in ultimately wiring it directly to the brain. Interesting and also probably very likely, one day.
Now on the other side of the coin, as an audio engineer I tend to be around a lot of musicians, and I can definitely say there is a larger link to drug use with them (bug surprise) than computer users. (of course the most addicted pot smoker I have ever seen was a fellow audio engineer, and some of you probably have CD's in your collection that he worked on, but that's another story entirely).
I must confess that the idea of altering my mind with drugs in intriguing, but I have yet to raise the courage to try an halucinagenic. And the thought of smoking appalls me to no end (though I did eat a pot-brownie once and it seemed to have little effect).
For me the, my mind altering comes from occasionally drinking alchohol, good conversation, and listening to a lot of very cool music.
Ignore Alien Orders
I'd agree with the earlier poster that computer people do less drugs. Maybe because mostly 'cool' kids do drugs and computer geeks don't fit that profile.
I wonder if this is just a perception, or if it's actually true. Is drug usage really mostly among the "cool", or is it more widespread.
Another interesting point is why geeks use drugs, or why they don't.
There are plenty of people here(like me) who think that illegal drug use is bad and shouldn't occur PERIOD. And there are plenty of people here who disagree 100%, who can and do use drugs responsibly (although I consider that a contradiction) and can justify it. Why do they do this? Don't ask me...they risk their health, their precious jobs, legal ramifications. Drugs result in a chaotic, illogical state and I guess the reasons for using them are equally illogical: a metaphorical 'up yours' to the government, a constantly decreasing good feeling, who knows.
But the fact of the matter is that they do it and anything they read here won't make them stop. If they ever do they will have to come to that decision themselves.
The connection between computer/drug use is on the basis that there is a great deal of info on the internet concerning drug use. It comes from both sides, you have the DEA warriors spewing and then you have the users trying to sneak around the damn laws. And hot damn, it's all free. I mean, where else could you find out:
Legal info (without having to scan legal docs or hire a lawyer)
Production methods (barring certain "cookbooks" which are mostly useless)
Legal goodies (yes kids, there are a few interesting chemicals out there that haven't been scheduled yet, like DXM, salvia, and better stuff if you can twist around the right documents)
Places where to obtain the above goodies (www.jlfcatalog.com comes to mind, expensive but nice people)
Tools for trippin' (acidwarp anyone?)
Where to find a good lawyer (just in case)
Hell I remember when I started college and got the hang of FTP sites and that new fangled thing called gopher, and the first things I had stashed on my unix account were a list of legal highs, how to roll a joint, etc back in '92. Of course, most of this stuff was at the local libary, but here it was all indexed and bullshit free. Hell, all the ravers I knew back then always had the best computers (High powered 486's, The first time I saw a pirated copy of Alone in the Dark on one that was connected up to a loud stereo, I was hooked) Why? It was the new Big Thing. You have access to a good supply to chemicals, what else but use a powerful tool made of switches. Infinite fun on both fronts.
As for coding, I remember trying to finish a rather large comp sci project while under the influence. Tricky stuff and not much fun for me. Pretty much a waste of a good trip. But it can open the floodgates, for better or worse, for ideas on programing, art, music or whatever your twisted little mind wants.
All the best programmers I know smoke dope, and many splurge on halucinogens or ecstacy. It is as close as we can get to brain hacking. The North end of Silicon Valley (San Francisco) is where you find a lot of really good brain hackers. The idea that marijuana 'impairs' the mind is a fiction from the media. Different ain't bad.
Hah! Most excellent! Make this the next slashdot poll!
While I don't think the article delt with it all, the person outlined, while I agree with many of her ideas, seemed more like a coffee-shop radical than a hacker, I do think their is a link between drug culture and hackers. While everyone has there definition of what hacker means, to me it is "a free-thinker with a compiler" (or maybe more generally "A free-thinking pragmatic").
To me, being a hacker means rejecting all Dogma, be it corporate, religious, or state sponsored. And since the amorility of those drugs that have been marked "bad" by society is just dogma, a hacker faced with drug culture is more likely then others to come out for it.
It is very easy, from the outside, to reject drug users as criminals by prejudice, the way that many people outside the hacker community reject us as criminals. But one cannot forget that just like we have our brilliant free thinking hacker geniuses (you know the names), recent history has been littered by genius free thinking drug users (Aldous Huxely, Carl Sagan,,,).
-
We cannot reason ourselves out of our basic irrationality. All we can do is learn the art of being irrational in a reasonable way.
As an avid drug, errrr computer user, I can honestly say that there is a correlation between drugs and the geek world in which we live. It may very well be that I will cease from seeing this trend as soon as my eyes are saved from the horror that is college, but there has been a definite push (probably geek generated) to glorify geekdom. In so doing, it stands to reason that more geeks would also attempt glorify the lifestyle by supplementing it with drugs. Don't do drugs. I find that they limit my ability to frag consistently in QIII. :P
-Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. One lick and you will suck forever.
Well maybe that needs some clarification in itself. I have friends who drink 5 times a week, a friend who smokes up every other day. I also know someone who abuses the hardcore stuff, coke, heroin, etc.. But only touches them once every few months so he doesn't get totally hooked. So what you use is an issue as well as how often you use it.
This is a little Offtopic, but it's at least tangential to the discussion.
I think its time to declare a failure on the so-called war on drugs. I don't know the exact figures, but I'd be willing to bet that about 90% of crime in this country is drug-related. Legalize drugs, and you'd be getting rid of 90% of the crime. Of course the situation is more complicated then that, but I think it would be an improvement.
Of course, you wouldn't want to just simply legalize everything, but who would want to take Crystal Meth, when they could get a safer, cheaper, and similar-strength stimulant at Wall Mart?
And, in legalizing drugs, you'll defund the criminal enterprise that flourishes by providing drugs. There won't be any need for the crypts and the bloods anymore in inner cities, or any other "gangsta" gangs. Without any reason for these organizations, they will cease. If drug users aren't ostracized by outside culture, they will be able to fit in. Bill Clinton, and George W bush are proof that marijuana and cocaine aren't detrimental to people's lives respectively. This is despite what government propaganda purports.
I think at when you look at this rationally, the war on drugs doesn't really make all that much sense. It isn't stopping drug use, and its creating more crime (in attempts to get around it) then its stopping.
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
I see just the opposite. All the techies I've known have had a secret interest in mind altering substances. Even though they don't use them very frequently that I've seen, they have generally been interested in exploring their minds using psychedelic drugs. You would be suprised at how many programmers out there take the occasional trip on acid or shrooms for inspiration.
Have you actually seen what various forms of truely mind altering drugs can do to a person? Medical evidence can be given that if you regularly take drugs of various sorts that produce neural stimulant reactions that the person in question will fall victim to eventual brain damage. Plus risking your freedom over getting ahold of drugs to keep an addict happy isn't pretty either.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
in my experience drug usage is extremely widespread. from the closet potheads to the millions who have discovered the secret that is DXM, to the after work beer drinkers, to the "but it's not a drug, my doctor prescribed it!" crowd. America is a nation of dopers. It's human nature.
judging by windows 98, i'd have to say that microsoft's programming staff smokes an incredible amount of crack on a daily basis :)
Drugs are crucial to computer development. How many projects are fueled almost entirely by caffeine? When the impossible is demanded, the smart programmer will understand that he will perform better -- or maybe just perform more -- under the influence of something, usually coffee, Mountain Dew, or Jolt. He will rely on a chemical to enhance his abilities beyond the norm, and I don't see anything wrong with that.
As for harder drugs, namely those of the narcotic variety, my opinion is split. These drugs can improve performance, but unlike caffeine, where all you lose is sleep, these drugs can have serious effects on your health, your personal life, and your financial status. A good rule of thumb may be that any drug that can cost you your life isn't worth any amount of brilliant code.
Unfounded rumor time: I heard from someone who heard from someone who heard from someone about a computer science professor at my university who tabbed LSD on an hourly basis back in the 60s/70s in order to gain inspiration for his work in artificial intelligence. I don't know if it's true or not, but I know that the professor in question is now absent-minded and socially disabled and hasn't had a promotion in at least a decade. I would not be the least bit surprised if the "rumor" is the reason why his brain is fried.
The caveat: all of his work in AI turned out to be dead ends. His contributions to the field aren't anywhere worth the damage he did to himself. Let's be careful out there.
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Remember when "Truth, Justice, & the American Way" wasn't contradictory?
1. This Plant person is an academic, not a geek. This is a subtle difference, and there is a HUGE amount of overlap, but she is, maybe 90% academic and 10% geek.
2. IMHO geeks pride them (our) selves on CLEAR HEADEDNESS. The ability to see a beautiful solution to a complex problem. AFAIK drugs tend to make you THINK this is what you are doing, but you are really just going (best stoner voice) "Whoah, chicken hats. No one ever thought of that before! Drugs make me smart."
I always wanted to be smarter that I am. Drugs make you dumb. This is not a geek value.
As a final thought: There may be a lot of drug use by internet users (particularly "internet feminists", whatever those are) but there is also a lot of homosexual, S & M, fat-girl porn on the internet, but that does not make it "prevalent among geeks."
-Peter
NO! No PROBLEMS!
Oh, you said problem-solving?!?!
B AHH!
my hands are turning blue!
they're turning blooo im so scared.
this now concludes our example of the effects of amphetaminGET THESE BUGS OFF ME!
Anyway, I can see that I was rambling for a while there. My point was that the more intelligent folk tend to do psychedelics and mind-expanders, the less intelligent folk tend to do stimulants and downers, and everyone does weed. At least, that's been my experience.
--
My response:
:) Can't hack all of the time.
c) medium
"Um, what was I saying/doing, again? Damn, I can't remember."
I just plain can't code when I'm on anything. My brain just seems to drop all state information after about 3 seconds or so. But I don't take things to help me code. I take them to relax after coding.
This sig is false.
Hello?! How can you dare talk about computers and the drug culture without talking about the nectar of the gods, Mountain Dew?! Any author who fails to see that connection is smoking the proverbial crack.
NOTE: This isn't flamebait. It's just the product of a mind just slightly bent on the Dew.
I began experimenting with drugs when I was 15 years old - I did one hit of acid. I had never had a drop of alcohol or tasted a cigarette, but after reading the entire contents of the hyperreal archive and other online drug information (Usenet, etc.), I was convinced that this was something worth trying. That was, without question, one of the most fascinating experiences of my life. It's like grasping how pointers work in C or going to the IMAX theatre. It doesn't have to be mind-blowing - it's merely captivating to see how drugs can change the way your mind works.
Over the next few years, I smoked weed on a few occassions, dropped acid a few more times - all of this while maintaining a high GPA (for what that's worth, I don't know) and beginning my career in IT.
I never used any drug more often than once every month, and generally once every six months, just as a way for me to ensure that I wouldn't spin out of control.
Near the end of high school, I began working as the sysadmin of a regional ISP. Shortly thereafter, I experimented with cocaine on about three occassions. I enjoyed it, but it wasn't worth the cost, and the addictive properties were apparent after only the second time I used it.
I then moved onto a (so far) great career in computer networking; I am currently a network designer at a regional financial firm.
Throughout this time period, I actively participated in groups such as NANOG, my local LUG, Cisco groupstudy, linux-net, and the local IEEE chapter.
Now, I use drugs about once a year.
The key was that I never got "into" drugs. I didn't get swept up by the drug culture or drug advocacy, nor did I ever use drugs when I was feeling low, so as not to develop a dependency on them. I have never felt a craving to use a drug more than once every few months. Most of my friends were aware of my drug use, even though they disapproved.
People say that they don't need drugs to have fun. That's a very poor point. I didn't (and don't) need drugs to have fun, either. However, they are fun for me, the same way going to the movie theatre is fun. It'd be like saying, "I don't need computers to have fun," as a reason for not ever using a computer.
By every account, I am a successful and happy participator in the IT field, my family, and my circle of friends.
I am merely trying to convey to people that using drugs doesn't equate to being a loser, or anything of the sort. There are a lot of stereotypes surrounding drugs and they may turn out to be right with lots of people, but don't fling around the "drugs are stupid" hype unless you're really as clueless as that statement would lead me to believe that you are.
I know as well as most of you do that there are a LOT of people who should never touch drugs because their lives would be ruined. That's unfortunate, but they didn't ruin mine.
I haven't, but I know a few people who have smoked pot. They seem perfectly fine (even Bill Clinton (well, he didn't 'inhale', sure...)). Yet the government, for whatever reason, seems to want to tell people that it's going to fuck them up good. The government also says that other drugs will fuck them up good to, why should we believe them then?
they risk their health, their precious jobs, legal ramifications
The greatest risk is artificial, created by the 'war on drugs', with legal drugs held to the same standards as food and prescription drugs, the health concern would be minor. and the other two points would be moot.
But the fact of the matter is that they do it and anything they read here won't make them stop. If they ever do they will have to come to that decision themselves.
Especialy since most people here seem to be disagreeing with you...
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
There seems no real link between the drug culture and geeks to me in general. Having worked for a gamws company I noticed that artists were mostly the ones into drugs. Developers would usually stay away from it simply because the reality seemed exciting enough for them (and deadlines were severe too ;-). In fairness there must be a percentage of geeks who do use drugs on a regular basis but I'd be very surprised if that percentage was any larger amongst geeks than the rest of the population. If anything I'd expect it to be lower. The most notable case of a geek who got into drugs was perhaps Matthew Smith (aka. Matt from Earth) but I think he got into class A stuff after he became a sort of celebrity in mid eighties. Unfortunately I don't think he conceived anything valuable ever since (in terms of coding that is).
but speak for yourself man, mountain dew tastes like piss (probably because it is). I'm impressed you can drink that shitwater and keep it down.
User Bio
I am in no way associated with Microsoft...if you lash out at me because of my fake e-mail address then I am glad you are agitated you small-minded, bandwagon-riding whiner who should spend more time focusing on the good you have in front of you.
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
It would seem to me that the "drug" of choice would have to be caffeine! By far, this probably the most used (and abused) drug amongst the programmer types that I know. Of course, the effects of caffeine are much less harsh than the hardcore drugs refered to in the article. Well, that is until you try to interact with a caffeine addict in withdrawl. (Do so at great personal risk...).
:-) ) and the Guiness I drink for fun (less time for that these daze!). "Buzz: The Science and Lore of Alcohol and Caffeine", by Stephen Braun, was a great read about the drugs I abuse on a constant basis.
For me at least, the only concern I have is the vast amounts of coffee I drink (welcome to the startup scene; a pot a day keeps the investors happy
The real silver bullet to good programs is caffeine; lots and lots of caffeine! *twitch, twitch*
its about time women in the media and in the computer industry are finally being recognized for alternative research no matter what the topic
Yes I have seen what drugs can do to people. And guess what, DRUGS ARE NOT THAT BAD. Yes, if you abuse drugs, they will mess you up. No one denies that. But many people, nearly everyone I have ever known who uses drugs, uses responsibly and has suffered no permanent damage. The only people I know who have suffered damage from drug use was my uncle who died from lung cancer (nicotine), and the various friends who turned into alcoholics over the years. It does not make sense for our government to restrict the freedoms of the people in such a manner that they can not decide for themselves what they put into their bodies. The government should not have the power to dictate to us what we do with ourselves.
intelligent and creative people are more likely to use drugs/alcohol. these are the same people that program computers. the link is simple
For UK readers, MSN is having probs with its website at the mo -- go www.msn.co.uk and laugh :-)
Seriously, I mean they got just about everything else in there:
I really took issue with the statement that drugs would expand your bandwidth and increase your processing power. There's no evidence for that. They alter effect sure, but theres no real evidence for increased information processing.
I forget who said it, talking about the use of drugs to treat schizophrenia, but the comparison made was that in the past we did trepanning[*], then we locked people up, then we electroshocked them and now we use a chemical lobotomy. * - yeah, I've actually heard that some people get trepanning for recreational reasons now - some sort of high if it's done over the right area of the brain. I don't know if it's true.
What I want to know is... what was Edward James Olmos smoking when he have that Superbowl halftime speech? "Behold! The Sage of Time is with us once again, and reveals before us a tapestry of magic!" I don't know what he was smoking, but it must've been pretty good
My current pet program (PowerShell) came to be after a couple of bong hits. It's gotten more than 15,000 downloads since I released it (Jan 3rd, I think?) and I'm constantly getting email from people who love it. I took some bong hits, got really baked, got an idea, and started coding :-) So anybody that claims that drugs make you stupid is dead wrong.
:-)
I can also code some damn good Perl stoned, too
"Software is like sex- the best is for free"
-Linus Torvalds
(From most addictive to the least:) :[ )
Cigarettes (Still doing these
Pot (Not that I can't stop, I just love mary jane!)
Crystal Meth (dropped this stuff with a quickness, devils drug)
Cocaine (beware the powders, I did)
Demerol (broke my arms a few times, no not for the demerol!)
LSD (7 hits and your legally mental, count lost at 200, not done in 2yrs)
Alcohol (Its addictive, I just don't like its effect.)
Shrooms (Fun, but it makes you sick)
Peyote (Quite fun.)
Robotussin
I gotta give the story for Robo. It was given to me between second and third period at high school. I was told to drink half of this family sized bottle. After seeing how easily I could swill the vile liquid down (due to experiences with 40 ounce beers) he told me to keep going. It took a while to effect me. However third period bio's discussion on cilla with a teacher who loves to make hand gestures cause a sudden stir within. It was a lot like acid. I asked to see the nurse. I split for a few periods. The moral of the story, kids, don't do drugs at school. Wait till after school when you should be doing your homework.
I don't know about linux hackers, but I guess some developers working for a certain company located in redmond are on drugs. .... ON A SERVER!
There is lots of evidence for that:
- They think they can take over the world
- They are not in touch with reality
- "now, was I programming a word processor or a 3D shoot-em-up game, er... , what the heck, lets make both in one app!"
- Customer: "What a lot of bugs"
Tech. Sup.: "Yeah, I see em too, and they have such pretty colors! "
- Nice colorfull, playfull GUI
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All his books that I've read have had either drugs in them, or things which are clearly analogous to drugs.
Well, maybe it's because i'm from Vancouver, aka vansterdam, but i smoke a LOT of weed ( i have my own growroom in the basement ) and a lot of the ppl in the geek world i know smoke pot at least... i know some coders who shroom fairly often too.
/.
i'd be willing to bet that it's just a counter-culture thing in general. if you read the article in full (it's pretty long) it seems like the writer is unable to make up her mind on some issues, most notably the decrim issue.
i think she's right on as far the narco-military-industrial complex thing goes though.
i'm betting that age difference and geography will be the big divider between ppl on
i'm just reading Hackers: Heroes of the computer revolution (by steven levy) which is a great book, btw; and he seems to say that drugs wasn't a big part of the original scene at MIT in the 50s & 60s, although it was more so on the west coast.
any thoughts?
-- This sig is.
"'LSD is a psychedelic drug which occasionally causes psychotic behavior in people
who have not taken it.' Now a lot of drugs are like that, and we have a lot of
psychotic people running around who have been driven mad by drugs they never took."
Om Mani Padme Hum
Having experimented when I was younger I can say that - at least for me - I could not code (or code well) if I were using virtually any drug. Except Caffein, of course.:) It's been my experience that any increase in thinking ability is an illusion. The thoughts I had while using drugs seemed to derive from the same sources as my sober thoughts.
These days I enjoy thinking too much to tamper with it in any serious way. Remember Sangamon's Principle (From Neal Stephenson's Zodiac).
One thing I have noticed is that after a massive coding day - something chock full of creation and logic - I can barely even speak. That's kind of like being on drugs.
IMHO, as per
J:)
Oh well, no point in steering now.
It appears to me that the tech/cyber culter's connection to drugs is mostly confined to the experience altering drugs vs. the stronger more addictive drugs. I see more programers on weed and/or LSD then crack and/or heroin. I think its because programmers are more often looking for new/altered experiences. Drugs like LSD and weed allow us to explore ourselves and our world in new ways. Whereas harder drugs (like heroin) are mostly associated with trying to 'escape' the real world, not learn about.
Does this ring true with anyone else?
how the hell does slashdot-terminal always get moderated up? his posts are always filled with silly nonsense.
The fact is that drug prohibition leads to gang violence, overcrowded prisions, and makes cold blooded killer gangstas into millionaires. It's failed us for the same reasons alchol prohibition failed us. Even if you hate drugs - drug prohibition drives the problem underground, where it is nearly impossible to be addressed openly or solved publicly.
It also creates other social problems - eg a drug using female who is raped while using cocane may not report the agressor because she fears going to jail herself.
Finally, it erodes our rights. We've had more taken away from us in the name of the war on drugs than anything else I can think of.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
linus-d2 waits outside in the rain. natalie portman is inside a small hut with betty davis.
betty davis: hmmm. that face you make. look i so old to young eyes?
natalie portman: no... of course not.
betty davis: i do, yes, i do! sick have i become. old and weak. when nine hundred years old you reach, look as good you will not! soon i will rest. yes, forever sleep. earned it i have.
natalie portman: mistress davis, you can't die.
betty davis: strong am i with femininity. but not that strong! twilight is upon me and soon night must fall. that is the way of things... the way of the hot young actress.
natalie portman: but i need your help. i've come back to complete the training.
betty davis: no more training do you require. already know you that which you need.
natalie portman: then i am a hot young actress?
betty davis: ohhhh. not yet. one thing remains: open source man. you must confront open source man. only then a hot young actress will you be. and confront him you will.
natalie portman: mistress davis.... was open source man the president of my fan club?
betty davis: mmmm... rest i need. yes... rest.
natalie portman: betty, i must know.
betty davis: the president of your fan club he was. told you did he?
natalie portman: yes.
betty davis: unexpected this is. and unfortunate.
natalie portman: unfortunate that i know the truth?
betty davis: no. unfortunate that you rushed to face him... that incomplete was your hotness. not ready for a sexual relationship were you. remember, a hot young actress's strength flows from her hot young buttocks. but beware. anger, fear, agression. the open source side are they. once you start down the open source path, forever will it dominate your destiny. consume you it will. natalie... natalie... do not... do not underestimate the powers of esr, or suffer open source man's fate you will. natalie, when gone am i, the last of the hot young actresses will you be. natalie, hotness is strong in your family. pass on what you have learned. natalie... there is... another.... port... port... man.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
natalie portman wanders back outside. she is depressed.
natalie portman: i can't do it linus. i can't go on alone.
hedy lamar: betty davis will always be with you.
natalie looks up and sees the spirit of hedy lamar. hedy approaches natalie and they sit together on a tree trunk.
natalie portman: hedy lamar! why didn't you tell me? you told me open source man tied up and bludgeoned the president of my fan club!
hedy lamar: the president of your fan club was seduced by the open source community. he ceased to be anonymous coward and became open source man. when that happened, the good man who was the president of your fan club was destroyed. so what i have told you was true... from a certain point of view.
natalie portman: a certain point of view!
hedy lamar: natalie, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. anonymous was a good friend. when i first knew him, anonymous was already a great fan of yours. i was amazed at how obsessed he was with you. i took it upon myself to train him as the president of your fan club. i thought i could instruct him just as well as betty davis. i was wrong.
natalie portman: there's still good in him.
hedy lamar: he is more machine now than man. horny and desperate.
natalie portman: i can't do it, hedy. i can't kill the president of my own fan club.
hedy lamar: then esr has already won. you were our only hope.
natalie portman: betty spoke of another.
hedy lamar: the other she spoke of is your identical twin sister.
natalie portman: but i have no sister.
hedy lamar: to protect you both from esr, you were hidden from him when you were born.
natalie portman: matalie! matalie's my sister!
hedy lamar: your insight serves you well. bury your feelings deep down, natalie. they do you credit. but they could be made to serve esr.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
natalie portman joins the rest of the group at the fan-club headquarters. they are making arrangements for the upcoming final battle.
admiral katzbar: mae ling mak will lead a group to the open source code generator. there, they will deactivate the new sendmail daemon. this will allow us to communicate battle orders to the fan-club members attacking the open source development house and end esr's terrible reign!
the groups divide up and head out for battle. on the way out, matalie notices something is troubling natalie.
matalie: natalie what's wrong?
natalie: matalie... do you remember your mother? your real mother?
matalie: just a little bit. she died when i was very young.
natalie: i have no memory of my mother. i never knew her.
matalie: natalie, tell me, what's troubling you?
natalie: open source man is here, now, near this bunker.
matalie: how do you know?
natalie: i felt his presence. he's come for me. he can feel when i'm near. that's why i have to go. as long as i stay, i'm endagering the group and our mission here. i have to face him.
matalie: why?
natalie: he was the president of my fan club.
matalie: your fan club?!
natalie: there's more. it won't be easy for you to hear it, but you must. if i don't make it back, you're the only hope for the fan-club.
matalie: natalie, don't talk that way. you have a power i don't understand and could never have!
natalie: you're wrong, matalie. you have that power too. in time, you'll learn to use it as i have. being a hot young actress runs in my family. my mother had it. i have it. and... my sister has it.... yes. it's you matalie.
matalie: i know. somehow... i've always known.
they embrace before natalie portman leaves to surrender. mae ling mak approaches natalie portman.
mae ling mak: hey, what's goin' on?
matalie: i... i can't tell you.
mae ling mak: did you tell natalie? is that who you could tell?!
mae ling mak begins to leave, then hesitates.
mae ling mak: i'm sorry.
matalie: hold me!
mae ling mak and matalie embrace.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
two random open source developers enter the cat-walk holding natalie portman in chains.
random open source developer #1: this is the hot young actress who surrendered to us. although she denies it, i believe there may be more of them and i request permission to conduct a search of the area. she was armed only with this.
the random open source developer hands open source man a spray-can of mace.
open source man: good work coder. leave us. conduct your search and bring her companions to me.
the random open source developers leave.
open source man: esr has been expecting you.
natalie portman: i know, president.
open source man: so... you've accepted the truth!
natalie portman: i've accepted the truth that you were once anonymous coward... president of my fan club.
open source man: that name no longer holds any meaning for me!
natalie portman: it's the name of your true self. you've only forgotten. i know there is good in you! esr hasn't driven it from you fully! that was why you couldn't bludgeon me before. that's why you won't bring me to esr now.
open source man seems distracted by natalie's firm buttocks.
open source man: i see your figure has filled out. your development is complete. indeed you are alluring as esr has forseen.
natalie is unsure of what open source man plans on doing. she is a bit nervous.
natalie portman: come with me.
open source man: my girlfriend once thought as you do. you don't know the power of open source! i must obey esr!
natalie portman: i will not be open sourced. and you will be forced to bludgeon me with the open source gnu sausage.
open source man: if that is your destiny...
natalie portman: search your feelings, anonymous. you can't do this! i feel the conflict within you! let go of your lust!
open source man: it is too late for me, natalie.
open source man motions for an open source developer.
open source man: esr will show you the true nature of open source. he is your master now!
dissappointed, natalie nods her head.
natalie portman: then the president of my fan club is truly dead.
as the open source developer takes natalie away, open source man gazes longingly at her buttocks. he turns to look out the window, harkening back to his innocent youth, when he was president of the natalie portman fan-club. he sighs, deeply.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
back outside, mae ling mak, matalie portman, alan cox, c3-rms, linus-d2 and some natalie portman fan-club members are walking across the park, approaching the code generator. they run into a biker gang of lubricating midgets. they befriend the midgets and convince them to help in the attack. the midgets decide to wait in the bushes surrounding the bunker to ambush any unforseen open source developers which may show up.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
open source man and natalie portman enter esr's throne-room. esr is sitting in a chair at the top of a platform. open source man and natalie portman approach.
esr: welcome, hot young actress, i've been expecting you. you'll no longer need those.
esr waves a finger and natalie's hand-cuffs fall off.
esr: guards... leave us.
the gaurds leave.
esr: i am looking forward to completing your sexual development. in time, you will call me master.
natalie portman: you're gravely mistaken. you won't open source me.
esr: oh no, my hot young actress, you will find it is you who are mistaken... about a great many things.
open source man: her can of mace.
esr: ah yes. a hot young actresses weapon. much like the ones that have been used on me time and again. by now you must know your old fan-club president can never be turned from the open-source side. so will it be with you.
natalie portman: you're wrong. soon i'll be dead and you with me.
esr: laughs. perhaps you refer to the imminent attack of your fans. yes. i assure you, we are quite safe from your fans here.
natalie portman: your overconfidence is your weakness.
esr: your faith in your fans is yours.
open source man: it is pointless to resist, natalie.
esr: everything that has transpired has done so according to my design. your fans are walking into a trap. it was i who allowed the natalie portman fan club to know the location of the code generator. i assure you, it is quite safe from your pitiful little band. an entire legion of my best coders await them. oh... i'm afraid the sendmail daemon will be quite operational when your fans arrive!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
mae ling mak, matalie, alan cox and several natalie portman fans storm the code generator bunker, taking everyone prisoner.
mae ling mak: all right! up! move! come on! quickly! quickly, alan!
the natalie portman fans herd the generator programmers away from their panels. matalie glances at a display screen.
matalie: mae! hurry! the fan club will be here any moment!
mae ling mak: charges! come on! come on!
outside, c3-rms watches from the bushes. he sees several open source developers storm into the bunker.
c3-rms: oh, my! they'll be captured!
lubie chatters something as he takes off into the forest.
c3-rms: wait! come back! linus, stay with me...
back inside the bunker, mae ling mak looks up just as an open source developer enters.
open source developer: freeze! you groovy chick!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
the natalie portman fan club is storming down the highway, close to esr's palace.
natalie portman fan #1: sir! we still don't have email contact with headquarters!
fan club president: retreat! all fans retreat! the sendmail daemon is still operational!
the fans turn and try to escape. an enormous wave of open source developers attack from the side.
fan club president: it's a trap!
a vicious battle ensues.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
inside esr's throne room, a large window allows easy viewing of the battle going on outside.
esr: come, girl, see for yourself. from here you will witness the final destruction of your fan-club and the end of your insignificant chastity.
natalie is in torment. she glances at her can of mace sitting next to esr's hand.
esr: you want this, don't you? the lust is swelling in you now. take your hot young actress weapon. strike me down with it. give in to your sexuality. with each passing moment, you make yourself more my love-slave.
natalie portman: no!
esr: it is unavoidable. it is your destiny. you, like open source man, are now mine!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
back outside the open source code generator bunker, the open source developers have brought mae ling mak, matalie, alan cox and the natalie portman fans outside. c3-rms and linus-d2 appear from the bushes.
c3-rms: hello! i say, over there! were you looking for me?!
the open source developers look up. while they are distracted, a mass of lubricating midgets attacks. a massive battle breaks out. the lubricating midgets begin painting the open source developers with melted oleo. they slide over each other. they become so aroused that they begin a giant orgy. mae ling mak, matalie, alan cox and the natalie portman fans take advantage of the opportunity to return to the bunker and deactivate the sendmail daemon.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
esr: your fans have lost. and your friends at the open source code generator bunker will not survive. there is no escape, my young sex-slave. the natalie portman fan club will die... as will your friends.
natalie loses control and grabs her mace. open source man sheilds esr from the spray. natalie runs and hides.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
though outnumbered, the natalie portman fan club is winning the battle. the open source developers are so exhausted from overwork that they are practically useless in battle. not to mention that the natalie portman fans are energized at the thought of meeting natalie portman face-to-face once they take control of the building. the natalie portman fan club president suddenly gets a mail message from the fan club headquarters.
fan club president: i've got mail! the sendmail daemon is down! commence attack on the open source development house!
the natalie portman fans roar with excitement as they beat back the few remaining open source developers and head toward the building.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
natalie portman is hiding in esr's throne room. open source man is trying to locate her.
open source man: you cannot hide forever, natalie.
natalie portman: i will not be open sourced.
open source man: give yourself to the open source community. it is the only way you can save your friends.
natalie portman strains to contain her thoughts.
open source man: ah yes, your thoughts betray you. your feelings for them are strong. especially for... sister. so... you have a twin sister! now your feelings have betrayed her too. your parents were wise to hide her from me. now their failure is complete! if you will not be open sourced, then perhaps she will!
natalie portman jumps out from behind a mainframe, wielding a can of mace. she begins beating open source man back with it.
natalie portman: noooooooo!
natalie portman sprays open source man in the face with the self-protection spray. he crumples to the ground, holding his arm out to protect his face from another attack.
natalie portman is crazed with the power of open source.
esr cackles evilly as he steps down from his platform toward natalie.
esr: good. good! your open-sourcedness has made you powerful. now, release your sexuality and take open source man's place at my side.
natalie looks down at the fallen open source man, breathing heavily as his sinuses sting from the mace. she harkens back to her youthful obsession with a hot young actor.
natalie portman: never. i'll never turn to the open source side. you failed your highness. i am chaste, like open source man before me!
esr: so be it, closed-source girl. if you will not be open sourced, then you will be bludgeoned with the open source sausage!
esr grabs a giant sausage with a taxidermied gnu's head mounted on the end of it. he begins to beat natalie with it.
esr: hot young actress... only now, at the end, do you understand! you have paid the price for your lack of vision!
esr thrashes some more... open source man shakes off the mace.
esr: your hot young femininity is no match for the power of open source!
esr beats natalie again. open source man pulls himself to his feet and stands next to esr.
esr: and now, young portman, you will feel the full wrath of the gnu!
natalie portman screams in horror as esr thrashes her harder.
natalie portman: aaaargghghghghgh! open source man! please! help me!
open source man looks fondly upon natalie's firm young buttocks. he looks at esr. with a final surge of passion for the hot young actress, open source man lifts esr over his head and carries him to the window. open source man tosses esr into the blackness of night, but not before esr gets several good whacks in with the open source sausage.
open source man collapses to the floor. natalie portman crawls over to him and holds his head gently in her arms...
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
outside, the fan club has beaten back the open source developers. the few remaining developers are rounded up and taken prisoner. the fan club members have penetrated the development house and have begun dismantling it. they are tearing it apart with their bare hands.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
natalie portman drags open source man through the development house. esr writings are flying around everywhere in the turmoil. the building is about to collapse from the attack of the natalie portman fan-club alliance. natalie is trying to reach a cart to drive her and open source man out to safety.
open source man: natalie, help me take these pants off.
natalie portman: but you'll make a mess all over the floor!
open source man: nothing can stop that now. just for once, let me love you with my own genitalia.
natalie nods in agreement. she removes open source man's pants. he smiles with relief. natalie gazes upon the pale, disfigured genitalia with pity.
open source man: now... go. leave me!
natalie portman: i'll not leave you. i've got to let you open source me!
open source man: you already have! you were hot! you were hot, natalie! tell your sister, you were ho...
with that, open source man slips away into a coma of bliss. filled with sorrow and pity, natalie takes one last look at the exposed genitalia. the development house begins to crumble. natalie quickly drags open source man's carcass onto the cart and escapes before the building collapses.
natalie reaches the street-corner. she spots her parents waiting to pick her up as designated. she dumps open source man onto the sidewalk, under a power line. she scribbles her phone number on a piece of paper and lays it on his chest. as she walks away, the tremors from the crumbling of the development house cause the power line to snap. it lands on open source man and ignites him. wistfully, natalie watches as he burns to a crisp.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
matalie and mae ling mak watch as the development house crumbles to the ground.
mae ling mak: i'm sure natalie wasn't in there when it blew.
matalie: she wasn't. i can feel it.
mae ling mak: you love her, don't you?
matalie: well... yes.
mae ling mak: fine. when she comes back... i won't get in the way.
matalie: it's not like that. she's my identical twin sister!
mae ling mak experiences a moment of confusion. then joy as she realizes matalie is all hers. they embrace and kiss.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
natalie portman is at a party with matalie and the members of the fan-club. she harkens back to the previous week when open source man saved her. she looks out the window... open source man's blue-auraed spirit is standing in the front lawn, naked and aroused, warmly smiling at her. standing on either side of him are betty davis and hedy lamar. natalie smiles back before rejoining her friends...
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
the end.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
starring
open source man
anonymous coward
natalie portman
natalie portman
matalie (natalie portman's identical twin sister)
natalie portman
esr
esr
naked & petrified guy
anonymous coward
lacey chabert naked & petrified
lacey chabert naked & petrified
mae ling mak naked & petrified
mae ling mak naked & petrified
mae ling mak clothed & mobile
mae ling mak clothed & mobile
c3-rms
richard m. stallman
linus-d2
linus torvalds
open source gnu sausage
farmland national headquarters mascot sausage + taxidermied gnu's head
with special appearances by
tom christiansen (sweaty topless male dancer #1)
larry wall (sweaty topless male dancer #2)
produced by
anonymous coward
directed by
anonymous coward
written by
anonymous coward
special visual effects
anonymous coward
sound design
anonymous coward
music
anonymous coward
key grip
anonymous coward
sausage wrangler
anonymous coward
thank you.
Forgive me for baiting the ignorant, but what harm have psychedelics (including marijuana) ever done? Their lone purpose is to make people feel good.
Soft drugs seem to be quite popular with the the CompSci's I attend university with - almost all will take a drink or 5, almost all are coffee/coke/jolt drinkers, and I'm sure that most would happily light up a joint with me.
:-)
However, push into hard drugs, and _all_ of the people I hang with recognize that permanent nasty damage occurs more quickly and easily as you move up the hardness factor - it doesn't take much coicane to make you hooked for life, which will then appreciably shorten your lifespan / ability to code
However, move into the sub-culture, away from university grads, and you find people who (knew lots of them in high school) use E, copious quantities of weed, etc. etc. etc. and fractint / acidwarp (it was the mid 90s, none of us had heard of linux/BSD). Fortunately for my own mind, I try to stay away from stuff like that.
But a cup of coffee with brandy in it sure helps with the difficult coding problems - caffeine to make you alert, and alcohol makes your mind look at the problem in different ways.
And Techno has this novel qualty of being interesting to listen to (at least for me) and not interfering with my ability to type/code.
That's all I have to say.
Don't like my sig? I don't either.
ahh, the great "Away" messages of ICQ........ "Smoke weed everyday...." -Dr. Dre
Go read this piece on disinfo, it's about a drug law that will destroy make it illegal to share certain kinds of information on the internet:
u rning+Drug+Books
http://www.disinfo.com/disinfo?p=folder&title=B
I consider the relation of anti-establishmentarianism and "amoral drug" use to be the dogma of established anti-establishment.
Just as Nancy Reagen keeps telling me how bad the amoral drugs are, so do Phillip K. Dick and William Gibson and Robert Anton Wilson tell me the opposite.
I believe neither.
Anybody wanna do a T-Shirt?
Like so much dribble back in the 60s, this is just another reach to justify drug use on a massive scale. It killed people then, and it'll kill people now.
1968 Drugs will make the Gratefull Dead sound better.
2000 Drugs will make the internet better.
Sugesting that this particular generation has been inoculated by slamming in the pit at burning man and pulling hits off a huka is just wrong, wrong wrong.
_________________________
"Drugs result in a chaotic, illogical state and I guess the reasons for using them are equally illogical: a metaphorical 'up yours' to the government, a constantly decreasing good feeling, who knows."
I know. Most hackers use drugs because they are enlightening. They allow you to comprehend reality in ways that are not normally possible without extreme meditation and years of practice. I've never known anyone to take drugs as some sort of silly protest against the government, the only drug users who experience constantly decreasing good feelings are drug abusers which are the minority of drug users in my experience. Judging from your post it is YOU who suffers from an illogical state of mind, not us drug users.
Personally I'm finding the experience of being in this industry and working with computers far more interesting than any drug I've ever heard. There is no drug out there that a real world experience can't outdo. Any "geek" out there who needs to do drugs is doing something wrong.
So there [karma whore|I] was, happily noding along on [everything2], great [speed] and response time, when, without warning, the server just sort of [froze]. It took 3 minutes for it to stop saying "Server contacted; Waiting for reply", and It's [still] doing that!! So, finally, I decide to give up and head off in [search] of some [dinner]. Several hours later, I come back and check /. again. Hey! there's a blurb about [E2]!
... ... but then ... that means ... I just saw a [server] get [/.'ed] RIGHT BEFORE MY VERY [EYES]!
;-P)
...wait a second...(i think)
Posted by [Hemos] on Saturday February 05, @05:45PM
A ha! that would be just about the [time] it happened!
*shivers and [shudders]*
(and fellow noders will know what the [ and ] mean
Vote Technocratic! Government by killer robots!
>>>Man, I don't know about you, but I could sure use a nice frothy glass of horse cum!
>>especially with some plump juicy RAISINS!
Mmmm, raisins and horse cum are yummy! I find that it's much easier to smear the raisins on your chest after you've gargled them with some horse cum. It's so hard not to swallow the horse cum and raisins, though, because the combination is just so yummy! Think, frothy horse cum, sliding down your throat like a white oil slick of love! With raisins!
>>Man, I don't know about you, but I could sure use a nice frothy glass of horse cum!
>especially with some plump juicy RAISINS!
Mmmm, raisins and horse cum are yummy! I find that it's much easier to smear the raisins on your chest after you've gargled them with some horse cum. It's so hard not to swallow the horse cum and raisins, though, because the combination is just so yummy! Think, frothy horse cum, sliding down your throat like a white oil slick of love! With raisins!
From everything I have read GHB is one of the safest drugs around, as long as you don't mix it with anything else, especially alcohol. It's recently been moved to schedule I, right up there with the real hardcore drugs, heroin, coke, and uh... well, the other fake-hard drugs that are schedule I. We have such silly drug laws in America.
I would have to disagree. My greatest coding is the result of marijuana. I find myself to be a lot calmer and tolerant when dealing with complicated algorithms. My creativity boosts ten fold yeilding more robust code, and I even find myself writing notes on scratch to reduce logical errors (as opposed to the bad practice of starting right off with the keyboard). My motivation is also greatly increased. Weed has accompanied me on most of my all nighters, and I have to force myself to call it a night as this thing we call time becomes a burden.
On the otherhand, I become irratable if I attempt to code drunk and the task becomes an unbarable job, instead of an intruiging enjoyment.
I've not attempted to code on acid, and I stray from most other drugs (the only thing I can do on n2o is excessive analization, and better understand the link between our peripherals and conciousness as "reality" becomes amazingly trivial)
So as a person who fits the mold of "hippie" physically as well as mentally, and as a computer junkie, I am proud to say THC and CPU go hand in hand.
Support NORML, and help rid FUD.
I always found Whiskey helped me with those long night programming sessions coding assembler. I think it was the sugar. Sweet coffee seemed to help too. But after 48 - 72 hours of this, the sugar, caffine and sleep deprevation was quite similar to the "extacy" experience.
I knew some guys that had a bad coke habit, and that led to some problems. Seems they designed a chip that went into the fuel injection computer on some late model cars. Well, they forgot one simple step in the design process - things change with heat.
After a while, these chips would heat up and the substrate would crack. All of a sudden, people would be driving down the road, and their car would just stop dead. Note: This is a bad thing at highway speed.
Kids, remember, there are soft and hard drugs. I've tried most everything out there. Some are scary, like heroin and coke. Stick with the natural stuff. Vitamin M.
Better yet, 72 hours of assembly language and booze. It doesn't cost as much, and if it develops into a habit, you'll be rich not poor!
Well, gotta go, crack don't smoke itself ya know!
"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme." Mark Twain
Drugs DID make the Dead sound better.
Drugs DO make the internet better.
Drugs are not bad.
Use responsibly.
I also don't agree that the Internet is an overwhelming sensory experience. TV can be, movies can be, but the Internet isn't. That's what the media wants to think the Internet is all about: flash and bang, but they're basically missing the point.
Ultimately, the Internet is a very intricate and structured piece of reality, and I don't see pushing yourself farther from reality as preparing you for that experience.
I'm not panning the drug experience, just the notion that it is in anyway connected to the Internet.
sigs are a waste of space
intelligent and creative people don't use alcohol
I can vouch for this. All the techies I know are closet dope fiends. Not gonna name names but I know a few developers at a big name game company who use acid regularly for inspiration in programming and art/level design. They'd drop a few hits and then work for 8-12 hours while they tripped. They've produced quite a few very popular games this way.
The article immediately mentions a n'arghilla bar on Manhattan called Kush. Anyone know where Kush is located? I hate trekking out to Astoria or Brooklyn to enjoy egyptian mint tea and a n'arghilla.....
next time you take some drugs, get on the internet. trust me a few hours wondering the net on acid IS an amazing experience.
As someone else pointed out, the article in question covers quite a bit of ground, but makes no real attempt to clarify or make substantial claims about the interrelationship between hacking and drug use. It seems much more about the visions and ideas of a single person, which while valid, certainly don't have anything to do with a community that I can't really think anyone would count her as a member.
That said, I do see some correlation between drug use (and patterns of drug use) and the hacker community. What follows is my personal experience (both in use, and observing others), and generalizations I make are unique to me, though I think they are a bit more valid the Ms. Plant's.
I've seen some claims from people above, but I honestly can't say I know anyone who can hack on anything but stimulants. Interesting ideas you might get on pot/LSD/whatever, but the coding process is very rational and process-oriented, which I can't see anyone doing well under anything but stimulants. Speaking of which, everyone notice that performance curve from crystal due to sleep deprevation? I've friends who were up for 72 hours on crystal, and though they functioned fine up until the very end, couldn't code after about 30 hours or so...
Anyway, my $0.02.
-Erik
There are always four sides to every story: your side, their side, the truth, and what really happened.
The only way that a true geek should be conservative is in his or her approach to systems administration. Conservative politics are the politics of the racist nazis like Bush and McCain.
What harm have psychedelics (including marijuana) ever done?
Amtra-Conrail train collision in the early-80's. The switch operator was on weed, which impaired his judgement sufficiently such that he put the two trins on the same track. Several hundred people died. What harm my ass.
episode 2 preview
Lars -
It's no big mystery that creative innovative people from day one have had a great number of drug users in their ranks,
from the doctor whom invented the process of sterilization to the people to have created this digital forum. Narcotics
don't make people better or smarter but they are useful as tools to disassociate the person using them to
gain new insights by throwing out the dogma of current or rational thought. This is the proper use of "drugs", not as
an escape mechanism. I suppose this is a difficult concept for those brainwashed by government propaganda that
has infected them at such a young age.
A few years ago I remember the debate on urine testing. Rational, well educated people said that urine testing is a
good thing for people in some jobs, such as airline pilots and bus drivers. That same bunch of reasonable fools failed
to see that they were playing straight into the hands of the "drug war". Today in west Texas, 6th graders are being
forced to give urine samples a recent CNN article reported. You gotta get those brats while they're young so they are
too stupid and to scared to stir up and real trouble later on.
The measure of competence is performance, dammit! Almost everyone I know that has become successful, either
financially or creatively has sampled or uses drugs recreationally.
Here is the best information resource on the "drug war" ever: http://www.copvcia.com
Wow you'd think these Slashdot posters would be more careful. Anyhoo, many of you should expect your admissions of drug use to be forwarded to the upper management and shareholders of your employer. As for those who posted anonymously, that's nothing a search warrant can't rectify.
Regards
If you read the article, te writer is *not* a geek or suggesting that geeks get "geeked up". She suggests that drugs are a primer for the internet and virtual reality and that drugs help people relate with electronic music.
Firstly, I just want to say that the article by this woman Sadie Plant is the most complete load of rubbish I have ever read in my life.
For example, here's one stupid quote:
"For Plant,....the bandwith and processing-speed of your cranial computer can be drastically expanded."
There is no doubt in my mind that this is sheer bollocks. Of course, she can provide a proof of this, even if it is via the pseudo-scientific means provided by psychology?
"Plant spent....her late adolescence reveling in and on the "free festival" scene -- a nationwide circuit of drug-and-music-fueled bacchanals similar to today's raves or Burning Man but far more disorganized."
What is it that drives people into the drugs scene (and I'm not talking about caffiene, or alcohol here)?? Is it boredom? Is it the need to be a part of, and be accepted by, some sort of sub-culture? Of course, most drug users would say some shit like "it expands my conciousness", or "it's just so cool", but, in my opinion, it seems to me that these users of mild to hard drugs have problems dealing with the reality of their lives and the hand that has been dealt to them.
Sure, I have read some of the comments by you pseudo-geeks who claim that smoking pot and using LSD, etc, helps you come up with ideas and aids your coding abilities. But the truth of the matter is that if you have to resort to the usage of mind altering substances in order to "enhance" your abilities, then you have no right whatsoever to call yourself a geek or a hacker.
Surely you cannot justify using these substances as being part of the Internet/"cyber" culture??
I think that the whole idea of hacking and coding is to pit your wits against the reality of life and technology, and to use your abilities as they are to promote a better philosophy of the usage of high technology, and to speak out against multi-national conglomerates who seek to monopolise and restrict the acquisition of technological knowledge (DVD DeCSS, for example). This cannot be accomplished with any degree of self-respect or articulation if our "culture" is percieved as being "on drugs".
Obviously, when I refer to the "usage of drugs", I am referring to the usage of marijuana, LSD, Ecstacy, cocaine, etc. (hard drugs), and not caffiene, tobacco, or alcohol, of which I am well aware can be classed as drugs (soft drugs) also. However, the consumation of soft-drinks or alcohol can in no way be compared to the usage of LSD, Ecstacy, or any other drugs of that genre, in terms of the physical effect and consequences that the users' body has to endure.
Personally, the thought of drug usage as being an intrinsic part of the geek/hacker/cracker/etc community is insulting, and, if it is the case that the majority *do* perceive drugs to be a part of our community, then I would like to dissociate myself now from this "community".
I work in the lab of a highly respected behavioral biologist doing narcotic research, and I can tell you that there are almost NO long term effects for any illegal drugs. The are two well documented ones, though: 1) a first trip on acid can cause such a psychologically disasterous experience, that the person must be institutionalized for years afterward. 2) X kills seretonin producing neurons (one of the primary effects is as an excitotoxin, essentially overstimulating the cells until they 'fry' themselves). The being said, two things:
1) the overexcitation of seretonin is much the same effect as antidepressants (both produce elevated sensitivity to seretonin, and increase the amount in the synaptic cleft). So, is the experience of connectivity, and as the article proports, technology-mind synthesis a higher cognitive sense of overall well being, or at the threshold of outright mania?
2) The article talks about X being the drug of this time period because of the internet and other connecting technologies. At the same time, it is the only drug (illegal, in popular circulation), that kills brain cells. Are we about to enter a race between enhanced versions of X and the ability to change the substance of the brain (neurons) into a non-biological form that can either simulate X's effects on demand, or be completely immune to it?
Just a couple points to meditate on....
I agree with what you say about alcohol but regarding psychedelics read 'the electric coolaid acid test'
Some people, (usually extremely inteligent people) react badly to LSD and never recover. They spend the rest of their days in an acid induced psychosis. There is no way to tell if you are one of these people until you take the drug. I personally know about 4 such individuals. They all were super intelligent, lively, nice, nerdy types who made the mistake of trying a little mind expaning LSD. Its a true tradegdy for the few innocents who this happens to
As Jerry Garcia said "acid is not for people with volkswagen minds"
no sig.
Can we say, "living in the past"?
I thought we already dealt with this crap in the 60's and 70's. Why do we have to have people writing about it like it's a new thing all over again? I don't get it.
Just curious, but has anyone here ever taken a lot mint (as in a tea) to get high and/or improve coding? Personally I've found that inhaling mints works better caffeine. On a side note, why can't most people just be content with some strong tea? Tea usually improves your ability to think rather than other drugs numbing you down.
you had stupid friends then. heroin is a very dangerous with a high potential for addiction. a lot of people can not handle using it responsibly.
and even if drugs were bad, people should still have the right to choose to use them. it is their body, what they want to put into it should be completly their choice.
play Quake on acid, I DARE YOU.
(that does count as the Internet, BTW)
+&x
I agree 100% (yes this is a me too post). As I am writing this I am listening to John Digweed's - Bedrock. If you have that CD, listen to track 9 on the first disk ("we are connected") - nuff said.
too bad I don't have any roll for tonite, Dave Ralph is playing at a club here in vegas. shucks.
sorry about your friends. I am sure they were totally unaware that smack could kill them.
Been around junkies all my life. They just don't care, they're dead anyway. Junk kills all pain, so they are one step away form death. I guess if that is how one wants to live and die, that's their business. The risk is the buzz. The buzz is the reward.
I have used drugs most of my life, mostly weed, but also used LSD, MDA, DMT, peyote, Chot(Kat) opium, Uppers downer, coke smack, even coleus.
It is not what you use, but how you use it.
There is nothing spiritual about it, only if you attach some spiritual message to it.
I agree the revelation is in the alteration of reality. It is a touch of death, it is a touch of insanity. The idea is to touch, not embrace.
Sorry your friends found an embrace when they only needed to touch.
Keep your head.
photosMy Photostream
Are computer jobs (I know very general) readily available in the Netherlands? How easy is it for a US citizen to work/live in Europe? I stayed briefly in Amsterdam/Rotterdam and loved the people/culture. The bud was quite excellent as well!! :) Feeling seriously "ripped off" living in the US these days. I miss the food, people, hash, etc of the Netherlands. Now why do I live in the US again?
It works, doesn't it???!!!
Glückwünsche, haben Sie Slashdot ermordet, indem Sie zum korporativen Druck beugten und Subskriptionen einlei
A prime example of this are antiphychodics and other mental mood altering drugs. These have had known effects on the brain and can lead to general atrophy of higher brain function. Look at misdiagnosis and abuse of Prozac. People have commited suicide because of their damaged cognitive abilities from such substances
There's a little bit of a problem with linking Prozac to suicides. If you take a look at the suicide rate of Prozac users vs. the general population, you'll find that Prozac users have a much higher suicide rate.
But this is a misleading comparision -- when dealing with psychotic and depressed patients, remember you are talking about a population group that has an markedly elevated suicide rate vs. the general population. Once you do the proper comparision of Prozac vs. untreated mentally ill subjects, you'll find that Prozac users have a much lower suicide rate.
There's plenty of anecdotal evidence, so could Prozac still cause suicides somehow? Well, the possibility for idiosyncratic reactions definitely exists, and it is important to recognize when a patient is responding adversely to a drug. But on the whole, you're definitely preventing many suicides.
As for the effect of Prozac on the mentally healthy--we simply don't have the type of data you would need for that (and this isn't an example of negligence, either). In Phase I clinical trials, drugs are tested on healthy volunteers. I've volunteered to be a control subject for research several times (though none of those were clinical drug trials)
Suicides didn't show up -- so we're talking about an effect that, if it happens, happens at a very low frequency. To look any farther, you literally need tens of thousands of people to participate in a controlled, double blinded trial to get statistically significant data -- expensive, time consuming, and impossible to justify when your subjects in question are *healthy* to begin with since every drug has *some* side effects (OT Rant: This includes "natural" drugs, and any decent *real* Chinese herbalist could tell you what those effects are. But most health supplement makers don't.)
In the case of Prozac use in misdiagnosed patients -- while the medical diagnosis may have turned out to be incorrect, there was some separate (nonmedical) reason that caused that person to be undergo psychiatric evaluation in the first place, so again the data is skewed (In this case, in a way that is very hard to scientifically interpret).
So why is our prison population booming under the drug war? Why does America have the largest per capita prison population in history (larger than even Stalin's Russia at it's peak), why is it that most people in prison are non-violent offenders who violated our silly drug laws? As a drug user, let me tell you, I feel ostracized by society. I am portrayed in our society as a fuckup loser who will fail in life. According to our society I belong in a brainwashing factory. I have to fear that the police will throw me in prison or force me to go to "treatment" because I choose to put chemicals in my body they do not approve of. It is MY BODY. I am capable of rationally choosing what I do with it.
Suggestions? ;)
Weed and acid don't help me code, that's for sure.
This sig is false.
Everyone I know uses psychedelics to explore their minds, reality, etc. I don't know anyone who trips just to escape. Tripping does not allow you to escape, it forces you to deal with what is going on inside your brain. Trust me, if you had a shitty day and you drop some acid, you are not going to be able to escape from your shitty day. Psychedelic drugs are amazing tools for exploration, it amazes me that our society refuses to accept them. Next time you post, make sure you actually know what you are talking about.
While most of these women are perfectly well-meaning, some are not sincere.
Some are not really women.
While I've read of people taking LSD and going into permanent psychosis, I think this is very rare and more of an urban myth to keep people from using drugs. The people in "The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test" were using EXTREMELY high doses over and over before they went mad. Even then most of them recovered over time.
Do many of you have first hand knowledge of people infrequently using LSD in low doses and going crazy?
1991 article from GQ
Drugs are everywhere here, and when you consider the age group that's in the thick of it - the 21-29 yr olds - that's where your also going to find a lot of drug use, too.
That's just the way it is....and I'm not complaining.
As far as the alcohol bit..any IT job is enough to drive you to drink. Doesn't help that a lot of places here in the Valley have Friday booze busts, or when their stock splits, which is just about every Friday anyway...
My favoutite drug has always been diet coke combined with a STRONG dose of C code.....
The article mentions the issue of legalization of drugs a couple of times, but doesn't go too far. If you're interested, read this article by The Economist magazine. Instead of just saying "war on drugs is bad," they actually present hard data and prove this point with great precision and accuracy. I got hooked up on The Economist after reading the article :)
It's so slow now...
Chris Hagar
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson
[Amen], brother, if [Hemos] is so involved with [Everything 2], why didn't he [prepare] it for the [Slashdot Effect]?
Chris Hagar
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson
When I first saw the descriptive blurb, I immediately thought that I'd see some nasty flamewars, as geeks took offense at being portrayed as drug users. Taking a quick look at the posts thus far, I can see that's not the case. I guess I discover yet again that my internal view of The Other isn't quite congruent with reality.
So, is there anyone else out there who had the same reaction that I did? Somehow, I find myself hoping there's a silent majority out there.
Why can't we node link with Slashdot articles and comments, it would make life so much easier than doing HTML links for various things.
Chris Hagar
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson
A pipeful of frop to unwind that coil spring
that the conspiracy put around your neck.
How did you plan to code without SLACK?
Any yeti blooded subgenii will tell you.
Frop Is It.Only available to Bobs chosen.
What about you,pink boy,GOT FROP?
Hell,for that matter,GOT SLACK?
Get right(iously fropped) with Bob and the ONLY open source religion.click on the above link or
see:
http://www.subgenius.com/pam1/pamphlet.html
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
And no, we don't -neeeeeed- it, we enjoy it.
OK, I just had this thought after reading this post, seemed both interesting and funny.
:)
As we all know, many anabolic steroids are prohibited for use to the professional athletes. The reason behind it is that they are harmful for your body in the long run, but boost your short-term performance, so if they were allowed, some atheletes would use them => they would get better results => every athlete would have to use them to stay competitive => everyone would be worse off in the long run.
Now, let's use the same framework for software development. Coffee boosts your performance in the short run, but harms it in the long run. In the today's cutthroat competitive environment many programmers drink lots of it to perform better. Therefore, to compete with them (on both intra-company and inter-company levels) everyone needs to drink coffee or consume other harmful stimulants (like Red Bull - my drug of choice). So... everyone loses in the long run, and therefore professional programmers should not be allowed to consume them.
Just imagine doping control for companies going public (i.e. you need to pee in a bottle and submit this bottle to the SEC before you're allowed to go public
A few years ago I noticed that "drugs" (for me it was booze and pot) severly impaired my ability to do anything with my computer than stare at the screen for hours on end and get nothing done.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
I find that with a couple of tumblers of bourbon, I can stream code like crazy. But I can't debug for shit. So I'll write a lot of code in the evening, then spend the next day tracking down and fixing typos.
I dunno, using the PC for hours on end is kinda boring, spicing it up with some pot and being creative is ok...
Hell, maybe this is more common in the early 90s, than now...
If you believe drugs are bad and are good for being illegal then you are a sheep of the govt
you are so stupid
I've noticed the exact same thing. Perhaps we have discovered something important here.
I see no evidence to support this.
none at all.
--
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
My father is a defense attorney, and he sees all sorts of criminals walk into his office. Most of them have some experience with drugs, but most are NOT on drug charges. Most have NEVER been charged with drug crimes. Most of them are charged with stuff having nothing to do with drugs. Our city has a drug problem, but still, I would guess from what I hear over the dinner table that it's about eh other way around, maybe 10% of crimes are related to the illegality of drugs. MANY more cases are people who habitually inhabit the legal system because they can't get their lives straight, due to many problems, often including alcohol and drug addiction. When these people get help, they usually get straightened out. Yes, there are some people who handle drugs responsibly (or relatively so), and they are probably disproportionately represented among the technically skilled, but there are plenty of rednecks and homies out there who have the talent to rise beyond their surroundings, but they keep getting tripped up by these distractions that ruin their lives.
*GASP*
Does the system need to be changed? Yes, and it IS being changed in many places, to reduce the criminality and increase focus on treatment for those who truly need it. Does the system need to be removed? No.
WARNING: there is a trojan on your
Natalie Naked! Woohoo! Got any BUSH SHOTS?????
Many programmers including Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have used psychedelics at one time or another. So while many techies steer clear of heroin, cocaine, etc, they may indulge cannabis (marijuana), shrooms, or even LSD...as well as using 'clubdrugs' like Esctasy at parties.
:-)
:-;
I personally don't use illicit substances now, but I have and don't regret it at all...in fact I now run the largest cannabis (marijuana) website in the world - CANNABIS.COM (or just CANN.COM for those too stoned to spell
Life would be boring without drugs
Hackers tend to be anti-authority. Therefore, hackers gravitate toward drugs because the religious authorities say that drugs are immoral and the government says drugs are illegal. In order to justify drug use, they invent benefits (like enhanced "insight" or "intelligence").
On the other hand, there is also the science/psychology "authorities" that say drugs are simply bad for you. (Of course, people dismiss this as tools of the authoritative state).
For example, the author claims that drugs enhance "insight". Certainly, if you talk to your average heavy LSD user, he/she will claim that the drugs provides all sorts of philosophical insights into the world. Unfortunately, they can't communicate exactly what those insights actually are, and such insights don't prove useful in their daily lives. Psychologists have studied this to a large extent and found that LSD does gives only the "illusion" of insight: the users are just fooling themselves.
Similarly, scientists have studied Extasy and found it has massive detrimental longterm effects to your IQ.
If you are looking for insight, read widely. In particular, read stuff that challenges your beliefs. The most interesting people I know are those who are widely read; the most boring people I've ever known have been heavy drug users. Similarly, I've noticed that the "insights" drugs give people does not change their beliefs. On the other hand, I've notice significant alteration in people's views on life when they start to read widely.
In the end, while wannabe hackers partake in anything counterculture, but all the interesting/talented ones I know are not into heavy drug use.
PS: I don't think drugs are immoral or that they should be illegal; just something that virtually never leads to anything useful.
You know, I don't think that drug use is necessarily related to the computer / internet aspect so much as the experience that is professional education. Let's face it, college is conducive to drug use. There's caffeine (or stronger stimulants) for late nights and early morning classes, alcohol and/or pot for coming down after a four-hour final, and maybe a little acid and X for those times when a student is feeling a little "experimental" (as they are wont to do). You see it in engineering students of all types, but also in med and law students. Hell, I've swapped some good drinking stories with my dentist. The difference between them and students in other less-stressful majors is that they seem to be doing it to be better - to be able to pull off the impossible that is demanded of them.
"The flame that burns twice as bright burns only half as long" - Les Claypool.
bp
woxy.com - Bam! The Future of Rock and Roll
Frankly, I think you have to be a pretty darn boring person if drugs are going to enhance your creativity. Some pretty creative stuff has been written by people when they weren't high, and some of it is actually readable.
If you're going to use drugs recreationally, that's you're perogative, but please don't go around telling people it makes you more creative or smarter. First of all, it's a crutch. If you need drugs to perform, then that's a sign of mental addiction.
Second of all, the drug of choice among many "innovative thinkers" is marijuana. It's not too hard to spot somebody who used pot heavily during their adolescence, because they usually lag about 5 seconds behind any conversation. Certainly there are enough successful pot users (e.g. Carl Sagan) to show that not all marijuana users will suffer "amotivational syndrome". However, I think Sagan would have been an extrodinary person no matter what. But what about joe average stoner? How many of them just sit around all day eating potato chips and watching Cheech and Chong movies?
Then there's LDS. Nevermind the people who don't have a sober friend guide them while they trip and end up killing themself in some dumb way or another, screwing with your brain chemistry has nasty effects like flashbacks later in life. Whee!
The article talked alot about how this author likes esctasy. That is some dangerous #$@*. Watch Go if you don't believe me. Whoo, apparently ecstacy can cause Parkinson's disease-type symptoms. You can be just like Dr. Hawking! yay!
Actually, the only reason I'm ranting is because I'm sick of my drug culture friends always talking about how they miss doing LSD and such. Yesterday one of them was trying to convince me that Cyberia was a great book. Apparently it deals on this whole drug culture/computer culture thing.
I got shots of natalie stuffing raisins into her pussy and rubbing them against her engorged pink clitoris
I'm not really offended, but I'm a little surprised at the number of testimonials where people say they took [drug] and wrote [program], which is the greatest piece of software they've ever created.
Personally, I drink tea, water, sometimes a Dr Pepper when I program, and that works just fine for me. All of my best programming happens when I concentrate deeply enough on my work.
So let's hear it: How many of you wrote [program] without [drug]?
This is a manual virus. Copy it to your sig and help me spread!
It killed people then, and it'll kill people now. 1968 Drugs will make the Gratefull Dead sound better.
First, I assume you meant drivel.
Second, you're only half right.
The drugs don't meake the Dead better, the Dead make the drugs better.
Oh shit I knew someone was going to start cracking down on all the caffeine in Mt Dew sooner or later.. Guess I will be in Dew rehab soon !!! write your congressmen to stop this..
If there is anything in science fiction to say drugs are good, it's in Dune. Melange allows for
1) extended life (300+ years)
2) expanded mental processes(even prescience for some)
3) safe, instantaneous space travel
4) immunity to certain poisons
5) Cool eyes of the Ibad(blue on blue) :)
Crime rates could also be reduced further by legalizing murder, and introducing slaughter cafes.
.. Slaughterbucks!
Hmmm
Bump off your noisy next-door neighbor and then sit down to enjoy a lovely cappucino!
Jesus Christ on Popsicle sticks, this is a gold mine!
Thanks, buddy!
One interesting fact about drug laws is that they apparently work in reverse.
I.e. in the Us possession of small amounts of Marijuana is a misdemeanor at best and is allowed for medical and religious uses in some states. In some scandinavian countries it is fully legal. Jamaica takes the opposite path of making it a criminal matter and sending you away for years.
Jamaica has slightly more than 2X the ganja usage of the US and 4X that of Holland and Denmark.
Go figure.
When Prohibition became an issue on the ballots Al Capone contributed heavily to the candidate who wanted to extend it and spread rumors against the one who wanted to end prohibition.
Why ? Because legal drugs are always cheaper. There is a premium that smugglers make.
This explains the way to actually win the drug war. Don't fight it. Make it legal. "Don't sniff and drive" is your motto.
Put draconian taxes on it ( 60% or so ) and ban advertising in all forms from the outset. Those taxes can go to policing the add ban and building rehab centers.
Do that for 2 years and you will have a slight increase in usage. After 5 years you are back where you started and after 10 you have 1/2 the addicts you had at the beginning.
Won't happen in any democratic country though. This formula is a perfect way to loose elections.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
actually, i have noticed that many people that do drugs aren't very computer literate and just do it to get a high. i know this cuz i hang out with these people at school and if i ever being to talk about computers, they all stare at me as if i had 3 heads.
"All generations were lost by something, always had and always will be"-Hemingway
If you want to discuss drugs intelligently, at least use the correct names. It is not Extasy or Ectasy - it is XTC. Get it right.
The drugs make the listener worse. This results in some cases in the listener even descending to the level of the quality of music that the Grateful Dead produced.
Well, I do have several friends that are regular users of both weed and/or LSD, but I expected more out of the Slashdot community. I expected that most people posting would have some inkling of intelligence and realize that drug use simply detaches one from reality and cannot possible help one understand what is going on around them in a clearer way. To tell the truth I am disappointed in most of the people posting here that condone the use of drugs, hard or soft. There is no reason to alter one's perception of the world, other than in an attempt to run away from something that one is too weak to deal with. Any problem that one may have can be handled through thought and physical activity. Drugs do not help society in any way that I have seen and I do not foresee any positive effect that they may have in the future.
Um, really, I forgot...
======
"Rex unto my cleeb, and thou shalt have everlasting blort." - Zorp 3:16
Sacred cows make the best burgers.
The fact is that marajuana is less harmful and addictive than alcohol. Far less addictive than tabacco. Our perceptions of certain substances have been skewed because of the environment we grow up in. I was taught that drugs are some evil thing which will destroy you, consumed by the weak minded wanting to prove their coolness. After I grew up a bit, and began to see the hypocrisy I tried them myself. This is what I've learned: Certain people should not touch drugs. They have a natural tendency towards addiction, if its caffeine or cocaine. Drugs can be divided into different types. Most drugs are amusing at best, however the true 'mind altering drug' can be used to transcend what one could call 'ego boundaries'. By observing the actios of your mind under the influence of a substance like LSD, you can understand how your consciousness functions. Subconscious thoughts, desires and fears come to light. This can be quite educational, although scary for some. Man kind has used drugs throughout history. Almost all of the early religions featured use of drugs. It was only until the storm-god monotheism took over that this tradition was broken. They can have powerful instructional and 'spiritual' effects. However they are a tool like anything else, and can both help you and harm you. Drugs arent the answer to anything, or the solution. However you can't really know what the question is until you've examined the inner facets of your own mind. This can be achieved through meditation, deep inner-reflection or ritual drug use.
wow 180 IQ, thats pretty impressive
that would mean you are pretty much one of (if not the) most intelligent people in the world now.
(at least according to the statistic definition of the IQ number)
I am quite disturbed that someone so intelligent can be so arrogant and downright condescending, without making a single supporting statement to any of your wild accusations.
regarding volkwagen being the peoples car, yes you are correct, the philosophy is to design a practical and economical vehicle for the masses. To do that takes an incredible amount of effort and VW makes without a question some of the finest vehicles on the market today.
My not quite 180 IQ can handle a rebuttal, so I won't hide behing AC. (and I am quite proud to say my IQ is pretty much in the 'normal' range)
Well I am quite sory for the general gramatical flow of my post but I have heard of cases where people actually took Prozac and ended up killing themselves. The number one state for Prozac prescriptions is Utah, USA.
There is clinical documented evidence that indicated that eratic brain function can result from giving drugs like this to healthy mentally sound people. The pattern was something like this: guy goes into a doctor because he has a back ache, doctor gives him prozac because he appears depressed, guy starts acting quite eratically mood swings and such, rapid changes in behaviour and then eventual suicide. If I were to give yuou say heart medication yould you be in tip top shape? How about something that is supposed to cure seizures? See the point is that a drug that is supposed to counteract something that is wrong with you has ingredients that are supposed to balance or stop the chemical agents or cellular processes that are causing this.
If you think that there are no problems with drugs then why are there so many people who become addicted and all these dead people or people who have had measurable decreased intelligence after abusing drugs for years (Jimmy has slured speech and can't preform basic motor functions without difficulty)?
Oh I know what happened! You see our Evil Uncle Sam decided that all those hippies were making too much trouble and so he engineered all these hard core street drugs and got everyone addicted. Or even better he decided to "spike" all of those "pure" drugs with some of his own wacky stuff and discredit all those "reputable" drug "vendors" right?
In China during the mid 1800's we had a little wide scale problem with this.
You see Americn and British (yeah it wasn't just the "evil" Americans this time) thought that getting all of the native people of China hooked on opium was a really cool idea. Then the Chinese got really pissed and decided to kick ass. Well as it turned out the combined forces of the drug dealers and their governments allowed them to prevail. However after what happened to all the Chinese and all the people in Europe and North America there started a reform movement.
I know that people have certain rights however getting physically damaged s usually not something that people enjoy. Can I take a razor blade and just randomly start cutting myself? Sure dosn't mean that it's a cool idea. What about addiction? I have had people in my genetic past who have been addicted to alchol and tobacco. There is a very storng possibility that if say I started smoking pot that I will also become addicted. This is totally unacceptable. We don't need more druggies in the world and we don't need more related fatalities clogging hostpital ER rooms when more people who chose not to use/abuse drugs are dieing.
I am not an idiot because I have seen things which all point the other way with drugs and such. People getting sick, people becomming dependent, people going to jail, people loosing the ability to think and function. Anything that destroys the brain is bad and should be avoided. I think one of the worst diseases is Althertiezmers(sp) because you just loose yourself.
Furthermore I would like some conclusive proof that in fact drugs can improve my productivity. I would be willing to try this little experiment: I will pump myself full of all fof these illegal drugs for the rest of my life and allow for daily/weekly cat scans/MRIs to determine it I am well; adding to this is a complete physical that will detect cancer and other nasties that are there. If I become a vegetable I will be mercifully shot and put our of my misery. Both will necessitate a series of comprehensive round the clock analysis by various teams of psychologists and other professionals who sill determine that I am indeed functioning and efficient.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
Why do hackers like drugs? Simple.
[Psychedelic] Drugs allow you to hack your brain.
Think about it: you've been given a courtesy copy of the world's most powerful computer. You play with it for 20 years or so and then a friend shows you these five or six TCP ports you had never noticed were open.
And the government will put you in jail for telnetting to them. Even though it's your own computer.
Remind anybody of the DeCSS shrinkwrap license fiasco?
The anti-drug laws are one of the worst things to happen to this country. There is no shortage of objective independant evidence that the correct solution is legalisation (perhaps requiring you to get a lissence to sell or even take drugs; thus preventing dealers from abusing their clients additions, etc.) Instead, we imprison insane numbers of non-violent ciminals and create violent criminals to provide the serivce of a dealer. I think we all know I could go on for days agreeing with the above post about the evil shit our gov. dose in the name of the war on drugs, so instead I will draw your attention to one little point which is relevent to this discussion.
My question is: If this law is passed would it be illegal for slashdot to post this story?
Jeff
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
You know, as I was reading some of these comments, one of them struck a note. At first I was thinking to myself that all the techies I know, including myself, are pretty straight-laced. Personally, I have never tried what most Americans would consider to be "drugs" - marijuana, etc. But then, I started thinking of all those nights at the bar...drinking to forget about the week's events...drinking to feel "good", enjoying the way that you suddenly start to feel affection for those around you, as though this is the way life is really supposed to be. Then Monday rolls around, and it's back to the grind of the "real" world. I think that everyone secretly yearns for those moments "under the influence". What does it mean when we look to drugs to feel good? It doesn't matter if the drug is alcohol, or Prozac, or pot. What does that say about the world? We all use, to some extent, to enter a world that is much closer to the one in our dreams, the one where everyone is friendly and loving, and everything is OK. Monday through Friday afternoon, we're just in denial.
I've yet to jump out a window thinking I can fly, I've yet to stab my friends because I thought they were blue smurfs trying to steal my vcr. You know what? I've never puked up blood from the evil rat poison that's supposedly in blotters.
You know why drugs kill? Drugs kill because of two reasons. A) Because they're illegal, there's no damned quality control. You get shit, you get fucked up. And, the more common reason, B) Morons who can't handle themselves take it, and become dependant on it, then manage to overdose.
Actually, it's probably good that drugs are illegal. This way, assholes can't sue for dying when they know the risks. Freaking morons against the tobacco industry.
Well, it was a decade ago, and the games were different, but I admit to playing a couple of different games on acid. The results were, well, interesting... These were games I was good at, and I found that I was still good at them, though the game seemed to require less thought and matter less. I recall not having quite the same playing style. In one case I was playing the WWII flight sim "Their Finest Hour", and I did quite a few more barrel rolls than I normally would have as I shot down the ME-109s.
In other words, I suspect that Thresh on acid would still kick your ass, but you might see him wandering the corridors looking at the pretty colors just before he fragged you.
The cake is a pie
i don't think he meant heroin in his list of safe drugs. personally, i wouldn't add cocaine to the list either, because i've seen it fuck up friends. but i've done my share of x, acid, weed, etc. and i'm the the worse for wear, =).
How the hell did you get modded up again? I do not understand this at all. You post nonsense and you get points for it! Moderators, LAY OFF THE FUCKING CRACK.
Feynman must not be very smart if he said that. Pot is a psychedlic drug.
I love to program. I love linux. I love to get paid programming and working with linux. I also like to smoke nugs afterwork when relaxing with friends, or once or twice a month eat some mushrooms by myself in a dark room with no music and tripitate (meditative tripping). For lack of a better term I guess you could call my tripitating my spiritual or riligous practice.
Unfortunately I don't get to tripitate for the next 5 years. I am on probabation for growing a small amount of mushrooms for my own personal religous use. The technical legal term for this in the united hates is Manufacturing of a Schedule I Controlled Substance, maximum penalty 30 years. I copped a plea to a lesser charge, Possession of a Schedule I, plead under the first offender act (no admission of guilt, no felony record upon completion of sentence), and was sentenced to $1000 in fines and 5 years of probation. I can't leave the state of Georgia for five years except for short trips with permission, and I can't practice my spiritual communion.
I can't change the laws in this country. The constitution is a joke.
I can take my talents and abilities (and my income, and my taxes) and move to a better country.
When I am off probation, I will move to somewhere like the Netherlands. Canada has a special immigration program just for highly skilled computer workers (and mushrooms are a trivial misdemeanor). You can even legally purchase mushrooms at "head" shops in Japan.
I will find a nation that needs people with my skills, and I will find a nation that allows me to practice my religion and exercise what should be my rights as a human being. I hope that this trend catches on, and that this country will start to be drained of its intelligent resources...
In the end, a financial motivation is the only thing that will ever cause the united hates to legalize marijuana and sacred mushrooms. I'm doing my part by leaving as soon as I legally can.
all i can say is that everytime i go to a rave a particular song played sticks in my head for like 3 days until i get the mp3 of napster and play it out. Of course, the problem is that it never quite matches how it sounded on E until you hear it on E again.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
I have a lot to say in a brief time.
First, I want to point out that the white bread world has no clue about drugs. Second, I want to make the connection between Free Thinkers (and by extension, a number of coders), and drug use, in particular, pyschadelics.
That the world is split in its understanding of drugs is obvious. Talk to anyone who is not accustomed to talking about drugs is like trying to talk with a Victorian about sex. There's a tensing up, concerns, "uhhh"s and "errrr"s. I remember talking with a coworker that I've known for some time, and he totally froze up. He had no concept that I could be talking with him about the subject. I was astonished to hear some of the things he'd heard. "Isn't LSD the drug that you are considered clinically insane if you take it 3 times?" Ho boy; time for a little education training.
A bit later we were watching TV (he liked his cartoons in the morning- Starship Troopers, CG), and in an ad break, there was a "Public Message": The usual don't do drugs rap. A boy was talking about his brother for show and tell. (I think he brought in his brother.) "My brother used to be a fun guy to be with." Dramatic pause. "But then he smoked pot." SHAME. [S] [H] [A] [M] [E].
Lets look at the informational content of this commercial for a moment.
Whoah. That was quick!
I think a good way to look at drugs is the following: 3 categories- Hard, Psychadelic, and Soft. Actually, one more: Socially condoned. Socially condoned drugs are like Caffein, Alchohol [by far far far worse than say, Pot- read the facts, sort it out. Black lungs, or abused kids?] Pot folks tend to be open, spacey people. After a good night of toking it up (for reference, I've never smoked pot), they tend to be a bit dim the day after, and recover after a week. Repeated use may turn the time to a month for recovering. But daaaaaam... That's a bit of sssshhhmokin. Potheads tend to be caring, open, friendly, and musicians. I like them a lot. I'm sure there are theives [laid back] out there who are also pot heads.
Then there are hard drugs. Crack. Cocain. Heroin. These are the folks that are going to bash your head in to get their next fix.
And then my favorite, the psychadelics. LSD and shrooms, and to a tougher extent Peyote [never had it.] Of these, I have personal experience with LSD and shrooms. Absolutely wonderful fun experience. Non-addicting; I've done LSD 2 times in my life, and shrooms 1ce. [I'm not too experienced myself; but have plenty of friends to talk with.] These are negative when your friends decides to run off to become a shaman [or some other ego trip], but can be quite a FASCINATING experience, and can really help to see things more clearly. I am honestly speaking here. Do not condemn what you haven't experienced, or say that it must be false.
Okay, 10 minutes left.
Oops... No minutes left...
Heh, sorry. You'll have to figure it out yourself.
Take care! {:)}=
Unfortunately, what happened to me is what happens to some people- it stopped working for me. It stopped buffering me from the increasingly horrible reality, but I kept getting more and more compulsive about it, and then I'd still be able to step back and look at myself and wonder, what the hell? I'd always put drugs into me like they were fuel, but I began questioning whether a life like that (in worse and worse surroundings) was even worth living.
Roughly around the point where I didn't give a damn anymore and would settle for anything as long as it was different, I quit using, also drinking alcohol. That hasn't changed though I'm somewhat older now. One funny thing- I ended up drinking coffee so intensely that I shook and couldn't think straight! So I ended up giving up coffee 'cos I couldn't use it like a normal person :) still consume caffeinated beverages, but only ones like Coke and black tea.
Last of all I gave up smoking (tobacco), again only when I was good and ready. Good and ready constituted having the flu, smoking anyway (of course ;) ) and being rendered literally unable to breathe at times, in acute pain. I threw away big freezer bags full of tobacco (being a good hoarder I keep bulk amounts of such things). Never did manage the 'use the last bits up then quit' maneuver, for me it's always had to be dumping the whole habit at a random moment of "Augh! ENOUGH!".
I'm not terribly surprised so much of Slashdot is on drugs. Hell, most of the world is. It is jarring that you can have a Slashdot discussion on copyright and musicians and so many people will leap in arguing in defense of THE LAW and yet, drugs? Those don't seem to count, you don't see the same arguments, the same ferocity. I am for decriminalization, though, mostly so you can get a tax base on drugs, and so we can start dealing with the unpleasant realities of the situation out in the open rather than having them still there but always kept secret. Criminalization doesn't do shit to diminish drug use, frankly.
If anybody needed to see someone saying 'I stopped using drugs, you can stop', I'm quite happy to say it. If that sounds real trivial then you wouldn't understand :) now, I know loads of people will flame me as usual and eat my karma for daring to suggest that a person might be happier without drugs. Well, that's too bad, because that's what I found. These days I'm not a balky machine running on drugs and keeping a constant quiet inventory of my 'fuels'- I'm just me (albiet with plenty of coca-colas :) )
It seems to me that this is a good thing to be- anybody else wanting to try it, ask yourself- do you want to be free?
LAME
and it's here to stay. But as has been said it's been criminalized. In todays emerging "wired" society we'll be re-examining the scripted dogma of our last one hundred years and begin moving back to the free society this country once enjoyed.
It won't happen without pain, most likely, but it will be the hackers and other free thinkers that will be in the forefront.
Look closely at the society that has been built around us and you'll see that most of us are criminals, or will be, because of all the laws that have sprung up. The narrow minded and "Big Brother" types have been having a free-for-all for the last thirty years. Unless the General Public starts rejecting what governments are pouring down our gullets things are only going to become more restrictive.
Here's an example:
Indiana Code 6-7-3 A law to collect taxes on illegal controlled substances. It's only purpose is to further penialize those unfortunate souls that are busted with possesion of a controlled substance. Unless you pay the tax before you do the dirty deed, of course.
I know, I'm wandering off topic, but I see it all as a big clash in the future between those who want freedom and those who want control.
Open source vs. Closed source... who will win?
They can't kill ya cook ya and eat ya.
I think the original article had more to do with how drugs can alter one's perception of reality in a direct way. You can inject yourself with 50 units of Regular Human Insulin (perfectly legal and not dangerous to normal healthy people) to get a feeling of what it is to experience dual consciousness and a complete lack of mental control over one's body. 60 years is a short time on this earth and it's good to leave it knowing that reality is not always what we see everday. Have some candy nearby if you do try it though. I like articles take on advertising and drugs. Desire is a cultural phenomenon bolstered by imagery and myths. The incessant advertising of dot .com companies is a bad trip.
I'm a student at Cal (Univ. of California, Berkeley). I live in the on campus dorms on a floor of about thirty people. Most are first and second year students; off hand I'd say 65% and 35%, respectively.
There is only one person on the floor who is known to take (illegal) drugs often. She smokes weed maybe once every two weeks. Most of the other students seem to think less of her because she smokes.
About half of the students will drink on special occasions like birthdays, but only when in groups.
I've been known to occasionally drink alone and a few of the other students have hassled me about it. It's not as if I'm getting plastered, but they still think I "have problems."
My first year, when I lived in the "quiet dorms" (la loma) there were even fewer drugs. Nobody smoked pot and there were only three occasions during the year at which alcohol was taken.
Drug use, even alcohol, is much less prevalent than I believed it would be. Not only is drug use absent, but it is greatly discouraged by the other residents. If you smoke in you room often, expect to be turned in by your roomates.
Have hallucinogenic experiences inspired some of my best programs: Yes.
Do I code whilst high: Of course not.
(Before you flame me for saying that the WoD is a good thing, please read what I'm actually saying in this post.)
One of the main reasons the War on Drugs will not end anytime soon is because it creates the conditions that justify it. Drugs are criminalised, which, by driving the price up and already labelling users as criminals, makes users more likely to commit property crimes to buy drugs; since dealing is illegal, drug distribution is handed over to organised crime, which can afford to protect its networks. This leads to an increase in crime, and an increase in demand for action against crime. Furthermore, the increase in incarceration due to anti-drug laws swells the prison population (already extremely high in the U.S., and growing) and creates industries dependent on anti-drug laws, which oppose any liberalisation and push for tougher laws. (In California, for example, the prison warders' union has emerged as an influential lobby group.)
It is because of these factors that the War on Drugs will not end anytime soon. In fact, it could very well last as long as the United States of America exists in any recognisable form.
because cannabis will be extinct in a few decades time. The U.S. Government is investing billions of dollars in research into biological agents (genetically engineered fungi, viruses and the like) to wipe out drug crops such as cannabis, coca and opium. Once these are developed, it is only a matter of time before said species are wiped out worldwide. (It would not take much effort for a DEA operative to procure a light plane and drop a few spores over most foreign countries.)
Is this Good or Bad(tm)? I don't know, since I haven't the opportunity to partake of any substance to comment on the effects of drugs on coding etc. All I know is that the mainstream in my society is where most drug users come from, and since geeks are normally quite deviant from what is percieved as cool by the Average Young Joe(tm) here, the drug culture doesn't exactly mesh with the Geek Value Code here....in fact, I can't even see any longhair friends around me(bummer)!! :)
I tended to forget what I was doing, finding the light and shadow around the CRT very intertaining, or the feedback from the keyboard sending senations all over my body. Graphics programs and fractals were more fun than bang bangs. Bryce is a hoot.
I wonder why they don't talk like this at "The Gate"?
photosMy Photostream
trust me a few hours wondering the net on acid IS an amazing experience.
Wandering. Wondering. Is that a subtle Freudian slip there?
--
A man who wants nothing is invincible
Yes thats right its only the people with addictive personalities who are at risk, from taking drugs. Take heroin away from an addict, you know what you have, you have an alcoholic. Useally these addicts are addicted to everything - 5 teaspoons of sugar in their coffee, 20 cups of coffee a day, benzos & barbs by the mouthfull plus bottles of bourbon if possible. Because the problem with addicts is not the drug, its themselves. If heroin is taken away from addicts, there health useally gets worse from all the pills & alcohol. Fact is pure pharmacutical heroin is totally harmless as the quantity/quality are consistent. The health of addicts on the Swiss heroin trials has improve remarkably in the last couple of years. Its the illegality of drugs that causes problems is killing people. Fact is 90% of people who get involved in drugs are just experimenting & going through a phase, similar to those drinking senssions you had at university. If there are any casaulties its from the side effects of the legal status of those drugs
Only people with addictive personalities get addicted, & if one drug didnt exist they would just be addicted to another drug, till they learn to abstain altogether, thats why so many ex-heroin addicts are alcoholics. The other 90% either use moderatly or occasionally go through phases or periods of increased drug use without any ill effects. I've been using heroin about 3 times a month for nearly 20 years without any ill effects, & not once have I been addicted to it. You shouldnt beleive all you hear.
Yes, I've seen a lot of stimulant abuse (and boy howdy do I mean abuse) in the techie crowd. There's a clearly lowered defense against stimulant use (and for the addictive ones, this usually ends up leading to abuse) among hackers due to odd-schedules and that drive to create that many hacker/coders have. I've been doing more and more coffee since my job moved to 1+1/2 hours from my home, and I'm starting to notice a bit of withdrawral over the weekends....
I've seen a lot of psychadellic use over the last 12 years of being in the hacker community. The drugs of choice seem to be psilocybe mushrooms ('shrooms) and LSD (acid). X (as in extacy, not X11) was never a very popular hacker drug on the east coast as far as I can tell. Many hackers come to psychadellics via simple experimentation, as they tend to be empirically minded and "Just say no" doesn't work very well against that mindset. After a short time, though, most hackers who do psychadellics get caught up in the "how does my brain work" game. Oddly enough I've never seen this have as much negative impact on one's life as a minor addiction to alcohol. Makes one wonder about the relative legallities, doesn't it?
One common thread among all of the hackers I know. None of them do the hard stimulants (e.g. cocaine et al.) or narcotics (e.g. opiates such as opium or morphine). I think this is because intelligent people of any sort tend to do a little research before taking any drug, and the side-effects of these drugs coupled with their massively addictive qualities makes bungie-jumping look like a nice safe passtime.
I feel like this post is an endorsement of drug use, and I want to be very clear: it's NOT. You have to live with your body and brain for the rest of your life, don't get stupid with it. "Just say no" isn't a terrible rule, but if you feel you need to live by another one, take all due caution. Do research. Say no the FIRST time, so you can think it over with a clear head and give it the same priority you would give any major life decision. And, most importantly: peer pressure to do anything you're not comfortable with indicates you have the wrong peers. Talk to them about it, or just find new friends.
If you're still confused, concerned or just want someone to talk to, send me some email, maybe some of what I've seen or been through can help, or maybe I can just help by listening.
Of course, these are all my thoughts and opinions, and my employer would probably be happier if I didn't state them, so there's little chance they agree.
To you Slashdot readers who regularly use drugs: grow up! It appears from the comments here that a lot of geeks/hackers use "pschadelics" such as acid/lsd to get an altered state of consciousness. True, this can give a source of creativity/ inspriration, but it is only temporary and causes long-term problems. Is it really worth risking your whole life just for some quick creativity?
If you are really interested in mind travel, such as astral projection, subconscious "hacking," and lucidity, learn to do it the natural way without drugs. Sure, it may take a long time to learn it but you'll get more rewards with no side effects. If you're interested in mind travel I would suggest the following page:
http://www.xsite.ltd.uk/wren/.
Linux: Long live the source code.
>> I realize that all the skill and knowledge I have can be lost with a single sip of the evil, and thats something I don't want to risk.
That's really not true. Who told you that? They're either lying or are highly misinformed. Trust me on this - you could do a hit of acid now and again, or a few pints/joints, and lose nothing but your stiff outlook.
Then again, you could also have a freak reaction and die, either directly or indirectly. Before everyone jumps all over this at once, I'm not saying this is common, I'm saying it has happened. I mean, hell, sure statistically, it's rare, but if you're the one in a million,that doesn't make a big difference then, does it?
Being needlessly judgemental and uptight can hurt you as much in life (and in the computer biz!) as any booze or drug use.
How does making the _personal_ decision not to do drugs make someone judgemental?
Being needlessly reckless and trying something just for the sake of curiosity can hurt you, too. There's something to be said for having an open mind, but there's also something to be said for the personal strength involved in saying how much is enough. Whether that's some or none. And that's a personal decision. Making the decision not to do drugs does not make you judgemental.
Computers are not everything in life.
No, and neither is trying drugs. Really!
How do you explain then that HALF of the people in US State and Federal prisons are in on drug charges then? That's 1 million out of 2 million inmates... do the resear ch if you're really interested, it's there.
Ever notice that the "Crime Rate" is supposedly "going down"... Know why? Because "drug crimes" are NOT INCLUDED in the crime rate statistics that are commonly reported... "Prison crowding" is one of the biggest lies in the last 60 years.
-Erik
A few posts down a user posted a link to this site.
FreeVibe
After checking that site out, for curiosities sake, it all was so clear to me why so many people, including myself at once, have had such a negative view of all drugs. Every word of that site and most of the links off of it are lies and urban myths, said in an authoritative way as to make the reader believe it is fact and be scared out of their gourd.
The worst is if you go through the links that describe each drug individually. Theres a whole section on 'The Hard Facts'. Basically, it just lists all of the possible negative impacts of those drugs without mentioning the positive ones. For instance, when talking about LSD it mentions that it causes horrible vomiting. What a load of BS. If you didn't know better and you read that document, you'd think, 'Wow! I don't want all those horrible things to happen to me, so I better not try that stuff.' It's engrained in us from when we were young. But it backfires! Once we learn the truth we can then question EVERYTHING those, so called, authorities told us. I just wish society could take a step back, not first seeing drugs as good or bad, and have an objective dialogue about them. There IS no truth right now because no objective dialogue can be had, with extremists on either side lambasting each other with exaggerations and lies. I DO do psychedelic drugs and have had an extremely positive experience. Each positive experience I've had puts a nail in the coffin of my past authoritative beliefs. What else did they lie to me about?
Frankly this really sounds like one of those meaningless deconstructionist philosophy rants. The ideas presented appear to be self-consistent but have no bearing on the real world, unless your sense of self is so far gone that the real world is too difficult for you to comprehend and you must make up a fantasy-world that works according to your own rules.
This actually reminds of the stir that Alan Sokal created a few years ago by submitting a phony paper to Social Text, and blew the lid off some of the really idiotic (and totally irrelavent) ideas coming out of a certain school of philosophy. The editors and they're supposedly intelligent insights had become so disconnected from reality that when someone (Sokal) came along and suggested that the real world doesn't really exist, they fell for it, hook, line, and sinker...
Shop Smart, Shop S-mart!
Drugs are cool. Just thought I would say that. . .
This is a manual virus. Copy it to your sig and help me spread!
Some drugs (notably opium) were thought to improve imagination. Drug use has been part of science fiction for a long time, from "The Hound of Tindalous" to Dune to Cyberpunk. My personal opinion of drugs is that there are too many variables involved with the taking of them for it to be advisable. For example, if some drug were said to increase intelligence or concentration, my thought would be "Yes, but what else does it do?" In fact, I am notorious for not taking my perscribed medications for the same reason (before anyone gets ideas about me, heh, I'm talking about pain medication I got after I had a tooth removed and the like).
I suppose if I were a pharmicological expert, I would approach the subject with less trepidation. As it is, I'm perfectly happy as a sex addict not to need any other expensive addictions in my life ^_^ (Not to mention my gaming addiction...)
Incidentally, I'm a Libertarian, so I disagree with the whole war on drugs thing even though I think some drugs are probably bad for people. (So is banging your head against the wall, but I wouldn't criminalize that, either.)
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
I smoked pot in college and experimented with psychelics as well. But I found that interest in drugs was well distributed among people with different interests -- with no notable concentration amongst people interested in computers. What I did notice is that many people used their experiences with pot and psychedelics to think in different ways about that which they were interested: computer science, biology, psychology, physics, even politics.
It does not follow that because some people think and talk about politics while tripping, that politics and tripping are somehow linked. In the same way it is not rational to say that because some people think about computers and cyberspace or even neural networks while they are stoned, that somehow drug and computer use go together. They don't go together and it is not useful to suggest otherwise.
My view or drugs is they should neither be glorified nor demonized. The decision to use or not use drugs should be a personal decision. The governments war on drugs is a failure and a resourse sink. This should be acknowledged and rational policies developed.
just a little personal experience...
i used to be a pot head from about the age of 20-21, everyday i would go to work and code for 8 hours. then when i get home i would go to my friends has and get baked. you're right, i couldn't code SHIT when i was fadded. nothing.
this was in LA, i live in seattle now (and yes i work for MS) all the geeks i know are completly strait edge, i don't know a one who gets wasted, then again. there not hackers.
Do people not make mistakes in any state of mind? Think for yourselves people.
I think that innovators tend to be counterculture in nature which is why many in science (especially theory), philosophy, and technology have been somewhat of a subversive nature throughout history. It isn't that drugs and geeks have to go together but that they just tend to as long as drugs are also counterculture which of course the drug war keeps going. Also I think drugs can be used to help boost creativity and relaxation for overworked geeks trying to keep up. Geeks are artists and art has often been linked with creativity and drugs. I myself have learned to psych myself up which causes various natural drugs to be produced and also now and then drink alcohol or Pepsi to boost myself. Sleep deprivation does a good job of boosting creativity too. When I'm stuck I go without sleep for a week or so and it comes to me how to do something.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
A few years back my buddy who was a bio-chem student took out just about all drug related books at the local university. We read everything. Look into it yourself-- there is NO medical records of any LSD "zombies" or other fucked up bullshit like that. You know, some people get up in the morning, drink a glass of orange juice, then just snap. It could just be that something was fucked up in that person's brain just ready to go, it just needed the kick that the citric acid in the OJ gave. We'd better ban orange juice. The average person believes just about everything they are told, even those of us who don't believe we do, do. baaah. baah.. -Freakboy up there.
Look into LSD people. The facts, not anti-drug bullshit. LSD is one of the most powerful drugs in the world, microgram per microgram. It takes such a *tiny* amount to trip a person out, BUT the "LD-50" for the drug (the Lethal Dose for 50% of the population) is so incredibily high that somebody would have to take 10's of thousands of hits to even approach the limit. Note that rabbits hit their LD-50 at VERY low levels-- it's all related to how your species brain reacts to certain chemicals. Anyway, on to the subject-- if you took 4 tabs of acid a day you'd be straight. This is because (as anybody who's every "seriously" taken acid could tell you)-- you build a a tolerance DAILY. If I took 1 hit today and got off, I'd need to take at LEAST 2 tomorrow, if not 3 to get the SAME EFFECT. This happens EVERYDAY. You would have to have a huge supply to be able to trip everyday for any period of time. Anybody who tells you different or tells you of people who take acid "every day" is full of shit-- plain and simple. baah. Baah.
I'm willing to agree that powerful psychedelics can "break" some people. However, I'm also willing to agree that going to the grocery store HAS "broken" some people. It happened to the mother of a friend of mine. She just freaked out one nice summer day, and has never been sane since. Does that mean that we should ban grocery stores?
In the absence of serious statistical analysis, anecdotal evidence of risk is not just meaningless, but actually danerous. It just encourages speculation and pointless screaming.
For example, I myself have done LSD several hundred times. I've even managed to do some DMT, which makes LSD look like distilled water . . .
I am (surprise!) completely stable, well-paid, chock full of assets, and generally an upstanding member of society. However, this is ALSO just an anecdote, and therefore suspect.
I guess my only point is this:
In the absence of serious scientific analysis (the kind of analysis that the government simply REFUSES to sponsor), I think that this is the only sensible approach.Some people will freak out. Oh well; that's life.
I have no
> What's the connection to computer culture? I'd
> agree with the earlier poster that computer
> people do less drugs. Maybe because mostly
> 'cool' kids do drugs and computer geeks don't
> fit that profile. Maybe because it's difficult
> to use a computer while high.
Well perhaps I can offer a differnt perspective
for you.
I was never "cool". There were always circles and
groups I was partially accepted in, I wasn't a
total outcast. However, I never truely felt I
fit in. I was always on the fringe, to sum I
prefered sitting with a few friends discussing
philosophy then throwing spitballs around at
lunch.
Ever since I first read about drugs, I was hooked.
It was over a year later when I smoked my first
joint, 5 years before my first hit of acid.
However, from the first text files I found, I knew
I had found something that I will spend the rest
of my life with.
The human mind and the mystic of the world of
drugs amazes and enthrawls me. It is like a whole
new world. It is a way for me to explore the
worlds within my own mind. A way to exist where
fantasy is reality.
In truth, I am not a heavy user. I smoke pot maybe
a couple of times a week at most, other drugs
maybe once a month (hardly ever less than 2
weeks apart). I am fascinated as much by my own
mind as by the computers I make my living
programming on.
To me a good drug is like a good book, or a good
poem, it takes you to a new realm and lets your
imagination take hold. That is the way I view
them.
Interestingly, DARE, the program in the US where
police are sent into schools to teach kids that
drugs are bad, has been shown to have a curious
effect. Kids who graduate from DARE are MORE
likely to use drugs as teenagers, than studtens
who didn't!
Why? Well some have postulated (and I agree)
that it is becuase DAREs founders, like many,
have forgotten that drugs are interesting. You
can't teach about them without exposing people
to the idea of them....and making many interested.
It was also postulated that in 20 years someone
will ask the Next Alexander Shulgin why he
became a chemist and began researching psychedelic
drugs and he will reply that he was interested
ever since he heard about acid in DARE.
(if you have an opionon about drugs...go read
Shulgins book Pihkal, it is likely to
change your perspective a bit)
-Steve
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
drugs == bad, eh? But I owe my life to drugs. Penicillin cured my heart infection when I was three years old.
Oooooh, you don't mean drugs, you mean heroin. Well why the heck don't you be a little more specific? Penicillin != heroin. Drugs != heroin. Yeah, heroin's pretty dangerous. Addictive too, so they say. Good for terminal cancer patients, though.
Say, did you know that six hundred thousand American citizens were arrested last year for possesion of marijuana? That's marijuana, not heroin. Just as penicillin != heroin, marijuana != heroin. I can think a few more productive ways to spend ten billion dollars of the taxes we Americans paid last year than on hounding six hundred thousand of my fellow citizens into jail over a nearly perfectly harmless vice.
Yours WDK - WKiernan@concentric.net
Christ sake, you can die of insulin shock. Dead. If this is a troll it's a particularly obnoxious one.
Info on the Boston Church of Christ
-Jasa -- Linux - The SOURCE will be with you, ALWAYS
..sound like a whole lotta fun, huh?
Well, i gotta put my two cents here.
I'm a pot smoker since five years. I recently finished my studies, and i'm doing jsp dvpmt right now.
I can easily leave pot for month, but since i got hooked back in november, i smoke on a daily basis. I need a joint on the higway in the morning, in order to fight the side effects of those i smoked the day before. I usually smoke another one around the lunch time in order to stay awake and motived in the afternoon. I go back home around 20:00, and the first thing i do is to park my car somewhere i can find a great view, and smoke another one.
In the evening, i have a kinnda of social life, which mean smokin in the suburbs, in the streets, with two or three friends of mine. I last till 00:00...4 to 6.
On the weekend, i spend most of my time paying dummy songs, niteclubbing, pushing silly bits of leads wich stands for infantry...Along with alcohol/pot.
For those who would like to know the background, i live near a great french city which is not paris, cuz paris is not a french city. In my country, we got (in fact, we *are*) a lot of mediteranean people like spanish, lusitanian, magrehbian, turkishs, and so on. Smoking canabis is a forbidden activity, but still popular among the youth (perhaps just like wine&pastis for the olders). We usualy smoke morocco resin, or afghan. We breed potent weed, but everyone keeps it for oneself.
Most of my friends are heavy somkers. Most of the best IT professionals/mutimedia professionals i know enjoy smokin somtime. Some of them enjoy alcool (but where do you put the 'h'?) too, especially strong one.
...well, beside the cyberpunk/drug connection, i think the techie communities, and my kind of popular techie community, are heavily influenced by 60-70-80's counter culture.
That's why we are all insane stoned fellows.
So as a person who fits the mold of "hippie" physically as well as mentally, and as a computer junkie, I am proud to say THC and CPU go hand in hand.
...in five evenings!
I have to agree with you on this, but in a slightly different context.
When I get stoned I suck at coding, as mentioned in a previous post I forget all state information, sometimes I forget what the hell the codes for!
But, I've found that my ability to look at the bigger picture improves 100 fold. About six months ago I wrote a 700 page technical document on building a huge nationwide (UK) network...
The chances of me being able to actually get off my arse and do anything when high are zero. But that doesn't bother me. I spend my time planning, deciding what to do the next day or mapping out development roadmaps. Each persons experience with drugs is different and we have to respect these differences.
And the wonderful (for me) effects of cannabis don't stop there. It helps me get to sleep (I suffer some really bad insommnia), when I wake up after a heavy night I feel fantastic and ready for pretty much anything (which is great if I've written out a huge list of things to do the previous night!).
On the health side, as a smoker (cigarettes), I'm screwing my lungs over anyhow, and when I smoke weed I never smoke cigarettes. I've accepted the fact that I'm destroying my body, but what right does anyone else have (once you're an adult) to define what you can and can't do to yourself. Yes people need to be educated, but they don't need to be censored.
I recently visited Amsterdam (huzzah!) for five nights and have to say that sitting in a cosy coffee shop at 2:00pm in the afternoon smoking an 8inch joint made with the very best Dutch weed, whilst sipping a beer and reading slashdot on their computers is one the greatest feelings in the world. Whilst there I visited their Cannabis Musuem, a real eye opener about the history and uses of hemp, cannabis, hash, cannabis seeds, etc.
i would have to agree with you heroin is bad, however marijuana is definitely not bad and in my opinion alchohal is one of the worst drugs ever.
I'm surprised there aren't more cokies responding to this. I think the stereotypical "techie/geek" is seen as one who consumes much caffeine. I've found that after pulling a rail of coke one performs roughly equivalent to many "cans of soda/coffee". If you're a caffeine freak, spare your body the sugar, and just pull a line or two of the "peruvian marching powder". Nothing like banging out 2x lines of code in the same amount of time... I find that I think just as clear (if not clearer) when I'm jacked up. Gotta go, it's my pull...
There is a specific type of neuron in humans that is primarily responsible for mood and serotonin control. MDMA alters this by forcing said neurons to release all stored serotonin at once. Given high enough doses of MDMA, these neurons will suffer metabolic collapse (due to some unknown process, we don't today know exactly what's going on in the cell) and die. The toxic dosage in primates is generally accepted to be around 2.5-3mg/Kg. Effects from this damage include mood swings, depression, etc. However, This damage is not permanent, and the affected neurons regenerate after 6-12 months. However, for this to happen, you have to stop taking MDMA for the entire period.
Additionally, doses under the toxic level have no lasting permanent effects.
you can get mor info and specifics at www.lycaeum.org
Chocolate is mostly a food, but it does contain small quantities of drug compounds, including caffeine and THC-like chemicals. I've heard that you'd need to eat many pounds of chocolate to be equivalent to one joint, but then marijuana usage among my friends varies by probably two orders of magnitude, so perhaps some people are more sensitive than others. Also, empirical data suggests that women are much more sensitive to chocolate's mood-altering effects than men.
For more info, here are some choice links from this Google search:
--
Jake
Interesting ideas you might get on pot/LSD/whatever, but the coding process is very rational and process-oriented, which I can't see anyone doing well under anything but stimulants.
Interesting ideas you might get on pot/LSD/whatever, but the coding process is very rational and process-oriented, which I can't see anyone doing well under anything but stimulants.
Ah crap. I accidently posted that without my reply.
Anyway, I was just going to make the comment that you are right about that; I did some LSD awhile ago and I couldn't remember how to FTP, let alone code anything. It was bizairre.
Moral of the story: stick to caffeine for the coding part of the whole deal. =)