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Drugs, Computers & Cyberculture
Jett wrote to us with an interesting article concerning
links between drugs, computers and intellectual culture as a whole. The usage of drugs, ranging from hardcore substances to alcohol and such is an interesting intersection within the computer world. One of the other pieces that I've also liked in Feed was Steven Johnson's piece on Everything2.com. And to be straight: Yes, I am involved with Everything2. But it's because I think it's cool.
I myself see less computer users using drugs and any other social group. I also think that the level of alchol use in the geek world is less then the population as a whole.
Dr Fgets Strikes again!
Well, I don't use drugs (okay, the occasional hard cider, yeah!) but I do know some very smart people who do, and work with computers. There are a lot of classic examples here, too.
:) and there's the link between the hacker culture and The Grateful Dead. Of course, hackers and hippies have a link too, which is not surprising, along with hackers and communists, revolutionaries, etc., so it's not surprising that something as "counterculture" as drugs would be in there too.
;)
There's BSD & LSD (maybe required, for Unix development
Or maybe we're just a bunch of posers, I don't know.
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
Judging from all the petrification posts and smargle buttsex trolls, it seems there is no lack of drug users here on slashdot. I figure about 30+ trips of acid at a young age will obtain such a state of mind.
from the article
"... MS/DOS and subroutines of the brain can be apprehended by consciousness."
so what does this say about Microsoft?
-- Went home. Had to feed the kids.
While I love the author's works, I never put the Hacking + Drugs connection together before reading his works. (Of course, I was 14 at the time, but that may be irrelevant).
:-)
I'm just curious if his works, the image of Case in the Gentelman Loser (?) was derived from the hacker / drug sub-culture, or if the drug-use only manifested itself later. The breeding grounds (ie University ) for both may intersect, but how much of a cross-over was there between the drug-users and the geek crowd bathed in the glow of their green-screen terminals?
Off hand, the reality-altering effects of drugs and thge virtual worlds that we now have are both 2 different approaches to altering your perception. A 24 hour EQ session will produce largely the same effects (disorientation, inability to focus, difficulty with speech
Besides, whenever I used to surf whacked, all I could manage was a lame 1st post now and then.
--sugarman--
I'm just curious as to how many hackers and crackers use drugs to enhance their cognitive abilities for brief periods of time? The reason I ask this is because I seem to recall some famous page being hacked a little while back, and the perpetrator leaving a note that had, amongst other things, an apology for his spelling because he was "on methadiachromanphetamines" or something. Anybody have an idea as to what effects amphetamines can have on the problem-solving abilities of the human brain?
Wah!
Who makes up the main force in the computer industry...?
*Young people with problems
*Burned-out idealists
*Raving Loonies
So just be cool, get em' a hot drink and call the Ambulance if they need one. They will be back to coding faster this way.
Play Safe
DaveG (type3)
This article didn't so much link drug usage with technology, as much as talk about one woman's drug usage, and interest in technology. She was interested in authors who used drugs, but offered no particular links between them
Considering why various authors used drugs might make an interesting article. Merely making the point that many have has been done before, and is pointless.
I see some polarisation here. On one hand, many geeks, especially American are rather conservative and do not use drugs. On the other hand, many geeks, often during their college years do use or at least have tried drugs. Some see it as a form of hacking the mind, wich I personally have sometimes experienced. When using psylocybine, I have often felt like debugging my mind.. and getting rid of some nasty errors, and I feel great afterwards. I have used all kinds of substances, but the psychedelics are the only thing that I sometimes still use.
There's an interesting statement in the article regarding the sensory experience in raves and Ecstasy as "training for the Internet and virtual reality." Whereas training has usually been used to refer to media education as a preparation for new media -- insulating ourselves and being aware of extensions to our nervous system -- here it seems that ravers are preparing to become passive to the medium.
At some party I've mostly forgotten (no, it wasn't THAT good) I overheard a woman describing her trip to an unspecified region of Africa and encountering some natives. She showed them the cover of a magazine with a person's face on it; taking the magazine, they turned it over and around in puzzlement as if they did not understand what it was they should be seeing. This woman went on to make fairly derisive comments about these people but I suspect that their only shortcoming was not being trained to recognize the print and flat surface of the image on that magazine as a person's face.
Is it the case that younger generations increasingly exposed to drugs and raves can better appreciate virtual reality or the Internet?
Now, that said, given that the piece was about Everything, it'd have been nice if it had more than about two paragraphs' worth about it without having lots of fluff rambling on and on around it. It seems like a JonKatz article, but even less relevant. :)
---
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
Quine "quine?
Mmmn, Hemos, drugs are bad, mmn-kay?
First posts? Firsts posts are bad, mmn-kay?
Now you're cured! You can take the rest of the afternoon off for personal reflection, mm-kay? Find your own constructive way to better yourselves!
</ACCENT>
(*sound of thousands of Slashdotters scrambling off to smoke pot and hit 'reload' repeatedly....)
--
I think that it is clear that there is a strong connection between the counter-culture aspect of computers, drugs and even modern music.
Cyberpunk fiction is full of recreational drug use. Gibson, Sterling and Effinger all include it as essential parts of the new world morality of the settings of their novels.
The internet itself is a uncontrolled form of communication and their is a large amount of information that is useful to people involved in illegal drug use and crime in general.
It is not that computers are linked to drugs, but that computers are linked to the modern counterculture, and drugs are just a part of that counterculture.
A lot of the original hackers were ex-hippies, and a lot of young computer science students I know are involved in the whole techno subculture. The Matrix is a bad example of this, but it shows that such a link exists in the mind of mass media anyway. I think it is save to say that Neo's punk friends were into some stuff heavier than just a few Heinekens.
"Politics is for the moment, an equation lasts eternity" -A. Einstein
Hackers tend to be more political than anything getting more involved with left-wing political ideals that mind altering substances.
And as someone else pointed out, do we really need drugs when very soon we'll be able to alter our states of mind with VR?
That's basically thr direction Timothy Leary was heading with computers. He was looking for a ming altering experience with computers, as great as his experiences with drugs. He was an Amiga developer and interested in ultimately wiring it directly to the brain. Interesting and also probably very likely, one day.
Now on the other side of the coin, as an audio engineer I tend to be around a lot of musicians, and I can definitely say there is a larger link to drug use with them (bug surprise) than computer users. (of course the most addicted pot smoker I have ever seen was a fellow audio engineer, and some of you probably have CD's in your collection that he worked on, but that's another story entirely).
I must confess that the idea of altering my mind with drugs in intriguing, but I have yet to raise the courage to try an halucinagenic. And the thought of smoking appalls me to no end (though I did eat a pot-brownie once and it seemed to have little effect).
For me the, my mind altering comes from occasionally drinking alchohol, good conversation, and listening to a lot of very cool music.
Ignore Alien Orders
I'd agree with the earlier poster that computer people do less drugs. Maybe because mostly 'cool' kids do drugs and computer geeks don't fit that profile.
I wonder if this is just a perception, or if it's actually true. Is drug usage really mostly among the "cool", or is it more widespread.
Another interesting point is why geeks use drugs, or why they don't.
There are plenty of people here(like me) who think that illegal drug use is bad and shouldn't occur PERIOD. And there are plenty of people here who disagree 100%, who can and do use drugs responsibly (although I consider that a contradiction) and can justify it. Why do they do this? Don't ask me...they risk their health, their precious jobs, legal ramifications. Drugs result in a chaotic, illogical state and I guess the reasons for using them are equally illogical: a metaphorical 'up yours' to the government, a constantly decreasing good feeling, who knows.
But the fact of the matter is that they do it and anything they read here won't make them stop. If they ever do they will have to come to that decision themselves.
The connection between computer/drug use is on the basis that there is a great deal of info on the internet concerning drug use. It comes from both sides, you have the DEA warriors spewing and then you have the users trying to sneak around the damn laws. And hot damn, it's all free. I mean, where else could you find out:
Legal info (without having to scan legal docs or hire a lawyer)
Production methods (barring certain "cookbooks" which are mostly useless)
Legal goodies (yes kids, there are a few interesting chemicals out there that haven't been scheduled yet, like DXM, salvia, and better stuff if you can twist around the right documents)
Places where to obtain the above goodies (www.jlfcatalog.com comes to mind, expensive but nice people)
Tools for trippin' (acidwarp anyone?)
Where to find a good lawyer (just in case)
Hell I remember when I started college and got the hang of FTP sites and that new fangled thing called gopher, and the first things I had stashed on my unix account were a list of legal highs, how to roll a joint, etc back in '92. Of course, most of this stuff was at the local libary, but here it was all indexed and bullshit free. Hell, all the ravers I knew back then always had the best computers (High powered 486's, The first time I saw a pirated copy of Alone in the Dark on one that was connected up to a loud stereo, I was hooked) Why? It was the new Big Thing. You have access to a good supply to chemicals, what else but use a powerful tool made of switches. Infinite fun on both fronts.
As for coding, I remember trying to finish a rather large comp sci project while under the influence. Tricky stuff and not much fun for me. Pretty much a waste of a good trip. But it can open the floodgates, for better or worse, for ideas on programing, art, music or whatever your twisted little mind wants.
Hah! Most excellent! Make this the next slashdot poll!
While I don't think the article delt with it all, the person outlined, while I agree with many of her ideas, seemed more like a coffee-shop radical than a hacker, I do think their is a link between drug culture and hackers. While everyone has there definition of what hacker means, to me it is "a free-thinker with a compiler" (or maybe more generally "A free-thinking pragmatic").
To me, being a hacker means rejecting all Dogma, be it corporate, religious, or state sponsored. And since the amorility of those drugs that have been marked "bad" by society is just dogma, a hacker faced with drug culture is more likely then others to come out for it.
It is very easy, from the outside, to reject drug users as criminals by prejudice, the way that many people outside the hacker community reject us as criminals. But one cannot forget that just like we have our brilliant free thinking hacker geniuses (you know the names), recent history has been littered by genius free thinking drug users (Aldous Huxely, Carl Sagan,,,).
-
We cannot reason ourselves out of our basic irrationality. All we can do is learn the art of being irrational in a reasonable way.
As an avid drug, errrr computer user, I can honestly say that there is a correlation between drugs and the geek world in which we live. It may very well be that I will cease from seeing this trend as soon as my eyes are saved from the horror that is college, but there has been a definite push (probably geek generated) to glorify geekdom. In so doing, it stands to reason that more geeks would also attempt glorify the lifestyle by supplementing it with drugs. Don't do drugs. I find that they limit my ability to frag consistently in QIII. :P
-Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. One lick and you will suck forever.
This is a little Offtopic, but it's at least tangential to the discussion.
I think its time to declare a failure on the so-called war on drugs. I don't know the exact figures, but I'd be willing to bet that about 90% of crime in this country is drug-related. Legalize drugs, and you'd be getting rid of 90% of the crime. Of course the situation is more complicated then that, but I think it would be an improvement.
Of course, you wouldn't want to just simply legalize everything, but who would want to take Crystal Meth, when they could get a safer, cheaper, and similar-strength stimulant at Wall Mart?
And, in legalizing drugs, you'll defund the criminal enterprise that flourishes by providing drugs. There won't be any need for the crypts and the bloods anymore in inner cities, or any other "gangsta" gangs. Without any reason for these organizations, they will cease. If drug users aren't ostracized by outside culture, they will be able to fit in. Bill Clinton, and George W bush are proof that marijuana and cocaine aren't detrimental to people's lives respectively. This is despite what government propaganda purports.
I think at when you look at this rationally, the war on drugs doesn't really make all that much sense. It isn't stopping drug use, and its creating more crime (in attempts to get around it) then its stopping.
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
yes... but i agree with the original post because as recently as a few weeks ago i couldn't export crypto code to other countries. now all of that's changing.
not everyone in government is evil... but turning this argument on its head and calling government saintly or even immune to criticism is ridiculous.
i judge the us government by the laws it creates and upholds... and in regards to drugs i think the government is evil incarnate.
i am... therefore i think
I see just the opposite. All the techies I've known have had a secret interest in mind altering substances. Even though they don't use them very frequently that I've seen, they have generally been interested in exploring their minds using psychedelic drugs. You would be suprised at how many programmers out there take the occasional trip on acid or shrooms for inspiration.
Have you actually seen what various forms of truely mind altering drugs can do to a person? Medical evidence can be given that if you regularly take drugs of various sorts that produce neural stimulant reactions that the person in question will fall victim to eventual brain damage. Plus risking your freedom over getting ahold of drugs to keep an addict happy isn't pretty either.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
judging by windows 98, i'd have to say that microsoft's programming staff smokes an incredible amount of crack on a daily basis :)
Drugs are crucial to computer development. How many projects are fueled almost entirely by caffeine? When the impossible is demanded, the smart programmer will understand that he will perform better -- or maybe just perform more -- under the influence of something, usually coffee, Mountain Dew, or Jolt. He will rely on a chemical to enhance his abilities beyond the norm, and I don't see anything wrong with that.
As for harder drugs, namely those of the narcotic variety, my opinion is split. These drugs can improve performance, but unlike caffeine, where all you lose is sleep, these drugs can have serious effects on your health, your personal life, and your financial status. A good rule of thumb may be that any drug that can cost you your life isn't worth any amount of brilliant code.
Unfounded rumor time: I heard from someone who heard from someone who heard from someone about a computer science professor at my university who tabbed LSD on an hourly basis back in the 60s/70s in order to gain inspiration for his work in artificial intelligence. I don't know if it's true or not, but I know that the professor in question is now absent-minded and socially disabled and hasn't had a promotion in at least a decade. I would not be the least bit surprised if the "rumor" is the reason why his brain is fried.
The caveat: all of his work in AI turned out to be dead ends. His contributions to the field aren't anywhere worth the damage he did to himself. Let's be careful out there.
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---
Remember when "Truth, Justice, & the American Way" wasn't contradictory?
1. This Plant person is an academic, not a geek. This is a subtle difference, and there is a HUGE amount of overlap, but she is, maybe 90% academic and 10% geek.
2. IMHO geeks pride them (our) selves on CLEAR HEADEDNESS. The ability to see a beautiful solution to a complex problem. AFAIK drugs tend to make you THINK this is what you are doing, but you are really just going (best stoner voice) "Whoah, chicken hats. No one ever thought of that before! Drugs make me smart."
I always wanted to be smarter that I am. Drugs make you dumb. This is not a geek value.
As a final thought: There may be a lot of drug use by internet users (particularly "internet feminists", whatever those are) but there is also a lot of homosexual, S & M, fat-girl porn on the internet, but that does not make it "prevalent among geeks."
-Peter
NO! No PROBLEMS!
Oh, you said problem-solving?!?!
B AHH!
my hands are turning blue!
they're turning blooo im so scared.
this now concludes our example of the effects of amphetaminGET THESE BUGS OFF ME!
Anyway, I can see that I was rambling for a while there. My point was that the more intelligent folk tend to do psychedelics and mind-expanders, the less intelligent folk tend to do stimulants and downers, and everyone does weed. At least, that's been my experience.
--
My response:
:) Can't hack all of the time.
c) medium
"Um, what was I saying/doing, again? Damn, I can't remember."
I just plain can't code when I'm on anything. My brain just seems to drop all state information after about 3 seconds or so. But I don't take things to help me code. I take them to relax after coding.
This sig is false.
Hello?! How can you dare talk about computers and the drug culture without talking about the nectar of the gods, Mountain Dew?! Any author who fails to see that connection is smoking the proverbial crack.
NOTE: This isn't flamebait. It's just the product of a mind just slightly bent on the Dew.
I began experimenting with drugs when I was 15 years old - I did one hit of acid. I had never had a drop of alcohol or tasted a cigarette, but after reading the entire contents of the hyperreal archive and other online drug information (Usenet, etc.), I was convinced that this was something worth trying. That was, without question, one of the most fascinating experiences of my life. It's like grasping how pointers work in C or going to the IMAX theatre. It doesn't have to be mind-blowing - it's merely captivating to see how drugs can change the way your mind works.
Over the next few years, I smoked weed on a few occassions, dropped acid a few more times - all of this while maintaining a high GPA (for what that's worth, I don't know) and beginning my career in IT.
I never used any drug more often than once every month, and generally once every six months, just as a way for me to ensure that I wouldn't spin out of control.
Near the end of high school, I began working as the sysadmin of a regional ISP. Shortly thereafter, I experimented with cocaine on about three occassions. I enjoyed it, but it wasn't worth the cost, and the addictive properties were apparent after only the second time I used it.
I then moved onto a (so far) great career in computer networking; I am currently a network designer at a regional financial firm.
Throughout this time period, I actively participated in groups such as NANOG, my local LUG, Cisco groupstudy, linux-net, and the local IEEE chapter.
Now, I use drugs about once a year.
The key was that I never got "into" drugs. I didn't get swept up by the drug culture or drug advocacy, nor did I ever use drugs when I was feeling low, so as not to develop a dependency on them. I have never felt a craving to use a drug more than once every few months. Most of my friends were aware of my drug use, even though they disapproved.
People say that they don't need drugs to have fun. That's a very poor point. I didn't (and don't) need drugs to have fun, either. However, they are fun for me, the same way going to the movie theatre is fun. It'd be like saying, "I don't need computers to have fun," as a reason for not ever using a computer.
By every account, I am a successful and happy participator in the IT field, my family, and my circle of friends.
I am merely trying to convey to people that using drugs doesn't equate to being a loser, or anything of the sort. There are a lot of stereotypes surrounding drugs and they may turn out to be right with lots of people, but don't fling around the "drugs are stupid" hype unless you're really as clueless as that statement would lead me to believe that you are.
I know as well as most of you do that there are a LOT of people who should never touch drugs because their lives would be ruined. That's unfortunate, but they didn't ruin mine.
I haven't, but I know a few people who have smoked pot. They seem perfectly fine (even Bill Clinton (well, he didn't 'inhale', sure...)). Yet the government, for whatever reason, seems to want to tell people that it's going to fuck them up good. The government also says that other drugs will fuck them up good to, why should we believe them then?
they risk their health, their precious jobs, legal ramifications
The greatest risk is artificial, created by the 'war on drugs', with legal drugs held to the same standards as food and prescription drugs, the health concern would be minor. and the other two points would be moot.
But the fact of the matter is that they do it and anything they read here won't make them stop. If they ever do they will have to come to that decision themselves.
Especialy since most people here seem to be disagreeing with you...
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
There seems no real link between the drug culture and geeks to me in general. Having worked for a gamws company I noticed that artists were mostly the ones into drugs. Developers would usually stay away from it simply because the reality seemed exciting enough for them (and deadlines were severe too ;-). In fairness there must be a percentage of geeks who do use drugs on a regular basis but I'd be very surprised if that percentage was any larger amongst geeks than the rest of the population. If anything I'd expect it to be lower. The most notable case of a geek who got into drugs was perhaps Matthew Smith (aka. Matt from Earth) but I think he got into class A stuff after he became a sort of celebrity in mid eighties. Unfortunately I don't think he conceived anything valuable ever since (in terms of coding that is).
User Bio
I am in no way associated with Microsoft...if you lash out at me because of my fake e-mail address then I am glad you are agitated you small-minded, bandwagon-riding whiner who should spend more time focusing on the good you have in front of you.
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
It would seem to me that the "drug" of choice would have to be caffeine! By far, this probably the most used (and abused) drug amongst the programmer types that I know. Of course, the effects of caffeine are much less harsh than the hardcore drugs refered to in the article. Well, that is until you try to interact with a caffeine addict in withdrawl. (Do so at great personal risk...).
:-) ) and the Guiness I drink for fun (less time for that these daze!). "Buzz: The Science and Lore of Alcohol and Caffeine", by Stephen Braun, was a great read about the drugs I abuse on a constant basis.
For me at least, the only concern I have is the vast amounts of coffee I drink (welcome to the startup scene; a pot a day keeps the investors happy
The real silver bullet to good programs is caffeine; lots and lots of caffeine! *twitch, twitch*
Seriously, I mean they got just about everything else in there:
I really took issue with the statement that drugs would expand your bandwidth and increase your processing power. There's no evidence for that. They alter effect sure, but theres no real evidence for increased information processing.
I forget who said it, talking about the use of drugs to treat schizophrenia, but the comparison made was that in the past we did trepanning[*], then we locked people up, then we electroshocked them and now we use a chemical lobotomy. * - yeah, I've actually heard that some people get trepanning for recreational reasons now - some sort of high if it's done over the right area of the brain. I don't know if it's true.
What I want to know is... what was Edward James Olmos smoking when he have that Superbowl halftime speech? "Behold! The Sage of Time is with us once again, and reveals before us a tapestry of magic!" I don't know what he was smoking, but it must've been pretty good
My current pet program (PowerShell) came to be after a couple of bong hits. It's gotten more than 15,000 downloads since I released it (Jan 3rd, I think?) and I'm constantly getting email from people who love it. I took some bong hits, got really baked, got an idea, and started coding :-) So anybody that claims that drugs make you stupid is dead wrong.
:-)
I can also code some damn good Perl stoned, too
"Software is like sex- the best is for free"
-Linus Torvalds
(From most addictive to the least:) :[ )
Cigarettes (Still doing these
Pot (Not that I can't stop, I just love mary jane!)
Crystal Meth (dropped this stuff with a quickness, devils drug)
Cocaine (beware the powders, I did)
Demerol (broke my arms a few times, no not for the demerol!)
LSD (7 hits and your legally mental, count lost at 200, not done in 2yrs)
Alcohol (Its addictive, I just don't like its effect.)
Shrooms (Fun, but it makes you sick)
Peyote (Quite fun.)
Robotussin
I gotta give the story for Robo. It was given to me between second and third period at high school. I was told to drink half of this family sized bottle. After seeing how easily I could swill the vile liquid down (due to experiences with 40 ounce beers) he told me to keep going. It took a while to effect me. However third period bio's discussion on cilla with a teacher who loves to make hand gestures cause a sudden stir within. It was a lot like acid. I asked to see the nurse. I split for a few periods. The moral of the story, kids, don't do drugs at school. Wait till after school when you should be doing your homework.
I don't know about linux hackers, but I guess some developers working for a certain company located in redmond are on drugs. .... ON A SERVER!
There is lots of evidence for that:
- They think they can take over the world
- They are not in touch with reality
- "now, was I programming a word processor or a 3D shoot-em-up game, er... , what the heck, lets make both in one app!"
- Customer: "What a lot of bugs"
Tech. Sup.: "Yeah, I see em too, and they have such pretty colors! "
- Nice colorfull, playfull GUI
---
Well, maybe it's because i'm from Vancouver, aka vansterdam, but i smoke a LOT of weed ( i have my own growroom in the basement ) and a lot of the ppl in the geek world i know smoke pot at least... i know some coders who shroom fairly often too.
/.
i'd be willing to bet that it's just a counter-culture thing in general. if you read the article in full (it's pretty long) it seems like the writer is unable to make up her mind on some issues, most notably the decrim issue.
i think she's right on as far the narco-military-industrial complex thing goes though.
i'm betting that age difference and geography will be the big divider between ppl on
i'm just reading Hackers: Heroes of the computer revolution (by steven levy) which is a great book, btw; and he seems to say that drugs wasn't a big part of the original scene at MIT in the 50s & 60s, although it was more so on the west coast.
any thoughts?
-- This sig is.
As a college-aged American, I can drink anything. Remember, we hold parties with cases and cases of piss called "Natural Light" and "Milwaukee's Best" (affectionately known as "Natty Light" and "The Beast"). If I can hold down 12 of those, I can hold down a liter or two of Mountain Dew.
But after about 3 liters, I start shaking. That's not good when you depend on the stuff to keep you awake for all-nighters in the architecture studio and you use pointy things.
"'LSD is a psychedelic drug which occasionally causes psychotic behavior in people
who have not taken it.' Now a lot of drugs are like that, and we have a lot of
psychotic people running around who have been driven mad by drugs they never took."
Om Mani Padme Hum
Having experimented when I was younger I can say that - at least for me - I could not code (or code well) if I were using virtually any drug. Except Caffein, of course.:) It's been my experience that any increase in thinking ability is an illusion. The thoughts I had while using drugs seemed to derive from the same sources as my sober thoughts.
These days I enjoy thinking too much to tamper with it in any serious way. Remember Sangamon's Principle (From Neal Stephenson's Zodiac).
One thing I have noticed is that after a massive coding day - something chock full of creation and logic - I can barely even speak. That's kind of like being on drugs.
IMHO, as per
J:)
Oh well, no point in steering now.
The fact is that drug prohibition leads to gang violence, overcrowded prisions, and makes cold blooded killer gangstas into millionaires. It's failed us for the same reasons alchol prohibition failed us. Even if you hate drugs - drug prohibition drives the problem underground, where it is nearly impossible to be addressed openly or solved publicly.
It also creates other social problems - eg a drug using female who is raped while using cocane may not report the agressor because she fears going to jail herself.
Finally, it erodes our rights. We've had more taken away from us in the name of the war on drugs than anything else I can think of.
Soft drugs seem to be quite popular with the the CompSci's I attend university with - almost all will take a drink or 5, almost all are coffee/coke/jolt drinkers, and I'm sure that most would happily light up a joint with me.
:-)
However, push into hard drugs, and _all_ of the people I hang with recognize that permanent nasty damage occurs more quickly and easily as you move up the hardness factor - it doesn't take much coicane to make you hooked for life, which will then appreciably shorten your lifespan / ability to code
However, move into the sub-culture, away from university grads, and you find people who (knew lots of them in high school) use E, copious quantities of weed, etc. etc. etc. and fractint / acidwarp (it was the mid 90s, none of us had heard of linux/BSD). Fortunately for my own mind, I try to stay away from stuff like that.
But a cup of coffee with brandy in it sure helps with the difficult coding problems - caffeine to make you alert, and alcohol makes your mind look at the problem in different ways.
And Techno has this novel qualty of being interesting to listen to (at least for me) and not interfering with my ability to type/code.
That's all I have to say.
Don't like my sig? I don't either.
ahh, the great "Away" messages of ICQ........ "Smoke weed everyday...." -Dr. Dre
True, all the PKD books i've read have primarily focused on drug use and that culture, canvased against a backdrop of either a pseudo-present day world or a possible future earth. (though i do not remember much drug use in DADOES?.
When I read this, it was moderated as "Insightful". Excuse me while I go vomit; something has just made me very ill.
***
I consider the relation of anti-establishmentarianism and "amoral drug" use to be the dogma of established anti-establishment.
Just as Nancy Reagen keeps telling me how bad the amoral drugs are, so do Phillip K. Dick and William Gibson and Robert Anton Wilson tell me the opposite.
I believe neither.
Why? Why is research by women special? Why would it be more important than research by anyone else?
Like so much dribble back in the 60s, this is just another reach to justify drug use on a massive scale. It killed people then, and it'll kill people now.
1968 Drugs will make the Gratefull Dead sound better.
2000 Drugs will make the internet better.
Sugesting that this particular generation has been inoculated by slamming in the pit at burning man and pulling hits off a huka is just wrong, wrong wrong.
_________________________
Personally I'm finding the experience of being in this industry and working with computers far more interesting than any drug I've ever heard. There is no drug out there that a real world experience can't outdo. Any "geek" out there who needs to do drugs is doing something wrong.
So there [karma whore|I] was, happily noding along on [everything2], great [speed] and response time, when, without warning, the server just sort of [froze]. It took 3 minutes for it to stop saying "Server contacted; Waiting for reply", and It's [still] doing that!! So, finally, I decide to give up and head off in [search] of some [dinner]. Several hours later, I come back and check /. again. Hey! there's a blurb about [E2]!
... ... but then ... that means ... I just saw a [server] get [/.'ed] RIGHT BEFORE MY VERY [EYES]!
;-P)
...wait a second...(i think)
Posted by [Hemos] on Saturday February 05, @05:45PM
A ha! that would be just about the [time] it happened!
*shivers and [shudders]*
(and fellow noders will know what the [ and ] mean
Vote Technocratic! Government by killer robots!
It appears to me that the tech/cyber culter's connection to drugs is mostly confined to the experience altering drugs vs. the stronger more addictive drugs. I see more programers on weed and/or LSD then crack and/or heroin. I think its because programmers are more often looking for new/altered experiences. Drugs like LSD and weed allow us to explore ourselves and our world in new ways. Whereas harder drugs (like heroin) are mostly associated with trying to 'escape' the real world, not learn about.
:-), and doing something that makes me think (which is just about everything when I'm stoned :-)
Does this ring true with anyone else?
Completely, dude... that's why I don't like drinking very much, and even when my roommates are all drinking 40's I take bong hits and watch "The Wall" on DVD (I know DVDs are bad, but the picture quality is so much nicer, and since I happened to buy a dxr2 I can watch it under Linux)
There's nothing I like better than smoking really good weed, eating barbecued hamburgers (marinated in Olde English 800
"Software is like sex- the best is for free"
-Linus Torvalds
I would have to disagree. My greatest coding is the result of marijuana. I find myself to be a lot calmer and tolerant when dealing with complicated algorithms. My creativity boosts ten fold yeilding more robust code, and I even find myself writing notes on scratch to reduce logical errors (as opposed to the bad practice of starting right off with the keyboard). My motivation is also greatly increased. Weed has accompanied me on most of my all nighters, and I have to force myself to call it a night as this thing we call time becomes a burden.
On the otherhand, I become irratable if I attempt to code drunk and the task becomes an unbarable job, instead of an intruiging enjoyment.
I've not attempted to code on acid, and I stray from most other drugs (the only thing I can do on n2o is excessive analization, and better understand the link between our peripherals and conciousness as "reality" becomes amazingly trivial)
So as a person who fits the mold of "hippie" physically as well as mentally, and as a computer junkie, I am proud to say THC and CPU go hand in hand.
Support NORML, and help rid FUD.
I always found Whiskey helped me with those long night programming sessions coding assembler. I think it was the sugar. Sweet coffee seemed to help too. But after 48 - 72 hours of this, the sugar, caffine and sleep deprevation was quite similar to the "extacy" experience.
I knew some guys that had a bad coke habit, and that led to some problems. Seems they designed a chip that went into the fuel injection computer on some late model cars. Well, they forgot one simple step in the design process - things change with heat.
After a while, these chips would heat up and the substrate would crack. All of a sudden, people would be driving down the road, and their car would just stop dead. Note: This is a bad thing at highway speed.
Kids, remember, there are soft and hard drugs. I've tried most everything out there. Some are scary, like heroin and coke. Stick with the natural stuff. Vitamin M.
Better yet, 72 hours of assembly language and booze. It doesn't cost as much, and if it develops into a habit, you'll be rich not poor!
Well, gotta go, crack don't smoke itself ya know!
"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme." Mark Twain
Cocaine is schedule II.
I also don't agree that the Internet is an overwhelming sensory experience. TV can be, movies can be, but the Internet isn't. That's what the media wants to think the Internet is all about: flash and bang, but they're basically missing the point.
Ultimately, the Internet is a very intricate and structured piece of reality, and I don't see pushing yourself farther from reality as preparing you for that experience.
I'm not panning the drug experience, just the notion that it is in anyway connected to the Internet.
sigs are a waste of space
Drugs like LSD and weed allow us to explore ourselves and our world in new ways. Whereas harder drugs (like heroin) are mostly associated with trying to 'escape' the real world, not learn about.
Does this ring true with anyone else?
This does not ring true at all with me. This sounds more like typical drug bigotry. "my drug is better than your drug, people who use your drug are all losers."
Most people who use psychedelics are not really trying to explore themselves and the world in new ways. They're (we're) just looking for a good time, to relax and escape. Clarity of thought is usually just an illusion, I'd consider it a particular (highly desirable) type of euphoria. Any valuable insights are either forgotten or not seen as so valuable after the experience is over.
Psychedelics provide much more of an escape than the "hard" drugs (opiates and stimulants - they barely provide any escape at all). There's nothing wrong with wanting to escape the real world. Perhaps programmers want to escape more than other people because we work hard, and we have to concentrate non-stop all day. I can put a lot more effort into my work, and deal with a lot more stress, knowing that there's some weed waiting for me when I get home, or that there's some acid waiting for me on Friday.
I think that I work hard enough that I'm entitled to an escape. I don't need to spend every waking hour working - and after a short time I'd end up less productive if I did.
heh, exactly.
-- This sig is.
As someone else pointed out, the article in question covers quite a bit of ground, but makes no real attempt to clarify or make substantial claims about the interrelationship between hacking and drug use. It seems much more about the visions and ideas of a single person, which while valid, certainly don't have anything to do with a community that I can't really think anyone would count her as a member.
That said, I do see some correlation between drug use (and patterns of drug use) and the hacker community. What follows is my personal experience (both in use, and observing others), and generalizations I make are unique to me, though I think they are a bit more valid the Ms. Plant's.
I've seen some claims from people above, but I honestly can't say I know anyone who can hack on anything but stimulants. Interesting ideas you might get on pot/LSD/whatever, but the coding process is very rational and process-oriented, which I can't see anyone doing well under anything but stimulants. Speaking of which, everyone notice that performance curve from crystal due to sleep deprevation? I've friends who were up for 72 hours on crystal, and though they functioned fine up until the very end, couldn't code after about 30 hours or so...
Anyway, my $0.02.
-Erik
There are always four sides to every story: your side, their side, the truth, and what really happened.
episode 2 preview
Lars -
I agree with what you say about alcohol but regarding psychedelics read 'the electric coolaid acid test'
Some people, (usually extremely inteligent people) react badly to LSD and never recover. They spend the rest of their days in an acid induced psychosis. There is no way to tell if you are one of these people until you take the drug. I personally know about 4 such individuals. They all were super intelligent, lively, nice, nerdy types who made the mistake of trying a little mind expaning LSD. Its a true tradegdy for the few innocents who this happens to
As Jerry Garcia said "acid is not for people with volkswagen minds"
no sig.
play Quake on acid, I DARE YOU.
(that does count as the Internet, BTW)
+&x
sorry about your friends. I am sure they were totally unaware that smack could kill them.
Been around junkies all my life. They just don't care, they're dead anyway. Junk kills all pain, so they are one step away form death. I guess if that is how one wants to live and die, that's their business. The risk is the buzz. The buzz is the reward.
I have used drugs most of my life, mostly weed, but also used LSD, MDA, DMT, peyote, Chot(Kat) opium, Uppers downer, coke smack, even coleus.
It is not what you use, but how you use it.
There is nothing spiritual about it, only if you attach some spiritual message to it.
I agree the revelation is in the alteration of reality. It is a touch of death, it is a touch of insanity. The idea is to touch, not embrace.
Sorry your friends found an embrace when they only needed to touch.
Keep your head.
photosMy Photostream
It works, doesn't it???!!!
Glückwünsche, haben Sie Slashdot ermordet, indem Sie zum korporativen Druck beugten und Subskriptionen einlei
A prime example of this are antiphychodics and other mental mood altering drugs. These have had known effects on the brain and can lead to general atrophy of higher brain function. Look at misdiagnosis and abuse of Prozac. People have commited suicide because of their damaged cognitive abilities from such substances
There's a little bit of a problem with linking Prozac to suicides. If you take a look at the suicide rate of Prozac users vs. the general population, you'll find that Prozac users have a much higher suicide rate.
But this is a misleading comparision -- when dealing with psychotic and depressed patients, remember you are talking about a population group that has an markedly elevated suicide rate vs. the general population. Once you do the proper comparision of Prozac vs. untreated mentally ill subjects, you'll find that Prozac users have a much lower suicide rate.
There's plenty of anecdotal evidence, so could Prozac still cause suicides somehow? Well, the possibility for idiosyncratic reactions definitely exists, and it is important to recognize when a patient is responding adversely to a drug. But on the whole, you're definitely preventing many suicides.
As for the effect of Prozac on the mentally healthy--we simply don't have the type of data you would need for that (and this isn't an example of negligence, either). In Phase I clinical trials, drugs are tested on healthy volunteers. I've volunteered to be a control subject for research several times (though none of those were clinical drug trials)
Suicides didn't show up -- so we're talking about an effect that, if it happens, happens at a very low frequency. To look any farther, you literally need tens of thousands of people to participate in a controlled, double blinded trial to get statistically significant data -- expensive, time consuming, and impossible to justify when your subjects in question are *healthy* to begin with since every drug has *some* side effects (OT Rant: This includes "natural" drugs, and any decent *real* Chinese herbalist could tell you what those effects are. But most health supplement makers don't.)
In the case of Prozac use in misdiagnosed patients -- while the medical diagnosis may have turned out to be incorrect, there was some separate (nonmedical) reason that caused that person to be undergo psychiatric evaluation in the first place, so again the data is skewed (In this case, in a way that is very hard to scientifically interpret).
Yea, people forget how powerful a drug caffiene is, not to mention nicotine and alchohol. Hypocrisy means never having to say you're sorry.
+&x
Suggestions? ;)
Weed and acid don't help me code, that's for sure.
This sig is false.
1991 article from GQ
Drugs are everywhere here, and when you consider the age group that's in the thick of it - the 21-29 yr olds - that's where your also going to find a lot of drug use, too.
That's just the way it is....and I'm not complaining.
As far as the alcohol bit..any IT job is enough to drive you to drink. Doesn't help that a lot of places here in the Valley have Friday booze busts, or when their stock splits, which is just about every Friday anyway...
The article mentions the issue of legalization of drugs a couple of times, but doesn't go too far. If you're interested, read this article by The Economist magazine. Instead of just saying "war on drugs is bad," they actually present hard data and prove this point with great precision and accuracy. I got hooked up on The Economist after reading the article :)
It's good to know that there's something - anything - that can make the Dead sound better ;)
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
It's so slow now...
Chris Hagar
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson
There was the mood-altering device right at the beginning of the book, which while not a drug per se, end up being the same in the end.
And Niven (possibly not the first) proposed that some current in the right spot in the brain could put most any pharmeceutical to shame.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
I think anyone between the ages of 15 and 60 can be suspected of having used drugs.
Speaking of drugs, feeling a bit paranoid, are we??
[Amen], brother, if [Hemos] is so involved with [Everything 2], why didn't he [prepare] it for the [Slashdot Effect]?
Chris Hagar
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson
When I first saw the descriptive blurb, I immediately thought that I'd see some nasty flamewars, as geeks took offense at being portrayed as drug users. Taking a quick look at the posts thus far, I can see that's not the case. I guess I discover yet again that my internal view of The Other isn't quite congruent with reality.
So, is there anyone else out there who had the same reaction that I did? Somehow, I find myself hoping there's a silent majority out there.
Why can't we node link with Slashdot articles and comments, it would make life so much easier than doing HTML links for various things.
Chris Hagar
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson
A pipeful of frop to unwind that coil spring
that the conspiracy put around your neck.
How did you plan to code without SLACK?
Any yeti blooded subgenii will tell you.
Frop Is It.Only available to Bobs chosen.
What about you,pink boy,GOT FROP?
Hell,for that matter,GOT SLACK?
Get right(iously fropped) with Bob and the ONLY open source religion.click on the above link or
see:
http://www.subgenius.com/pam1/pamphlet.html
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
OK, I just had this thought after reading this post, seemed both interesting and funny.
:)
As we all know, many anabolic steroids are prohibited for use to the professional athletes. The reason behind it is that they are harmful for your body in the long run, but boost your short-term performance, so if they were allowed, some atheletes would use them => they would get better results => every athlete would have to use them to stay competitive => everyone would be worse off in the long run.
Now, let's use the same framework for software development. Coffee boosts your performance in the short run, but harms it in the long run. In the today's cutthroat competitive environment many programmers drink lots of it to perform better. Therefore, to compete with them (on both intra-company and inter-company levels) everyone needs to drink coffee or consume other harmful stimulants (like Red Bull - my drug of choice). So... everyone loses in the long run, and therefore professional programmers should not be allowed to consume them.
Just imagine doping control for companies going public (i.e. you need to pee in a bottle and submit this bottle to the SEC before you're allowed to go public
A few years ago I noticed that "drugs" (for me it was booze and pot) severly impaired my ability to do anything with my computer than stare at the screen for hours on end and get nothing done.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
I see no evidence to support this.
none at all.
--
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
My father is a defense attorney, and he sees all sorts of criminals walk into his office. Most of them have some experience with drugs, but most are NOT on drug charges. Most have NEVER been charged with drug crimes. Most of them are charged with stuff having nothing to do with drugs. Our city has a drug problem, but still, I would guess from what I hear over the dinner table that it's about eh other way around, maybe 10% of crimes are related to the illegality of drugs. MANY more cases are people who habitually inhabit the legal system because they can't get their lives straight, due to many problems, often including alcohol and drug addiction. When these people get help, they usually get straightened out. Yes, there are some people who handle drugs responsibly (or relatively so), and they are probably disproportionately represented among the technically skilled, but there are plenty of rednecks and homies out there who have the talent to rise beyond their surroundings, but they keep getting tripped up by these distractions that ruin their lives.
*GASP*
Does the system need to be changed? Yes, and it IS being changed in many places, to reduce the criminality and increase focus on treatment for those who truly need it. Does the system need to be removed? No.
WARNING: there is a trojan on your
Many programmers including Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have used psychedelics at one time or another. So while many techies steer clear of heroin, cocaine, etc, they may indulge cannabis (marijuana), shrooms, or even LSD...as well as using 'clubdrugs' like Esctasy at parties.
:-)
:-;
I personally don't use illicit substances now, but I have and don't regret it at all...in fact I now run the largest cannabis (marijuana) website in the world - CANNABIS.COM (or just CANN.COM for those too stoned to spell
Life would be boring without drugs
Hackers tend to be anti-authority. Therefore, hackers gravitate toward drugs because the religious authorities say that drugs are immoral and the government says drugs are illegal. In order to justify drug use, they invent benefits (like enhanced "insight" or "intelligence").
On the other hand, there is also the science/psychology "authorities" that say drugs are simply bad for you. (Of course, people dismiss this as tools of the authoritative state).
For example, the author claims that drugs enhance "insight". Certainly, if you talk to your average heavy LSD user, he/she will claim that the drugs provides all sorts of philosophical insights into the world. Unfortunately, they can't communicate exactly what those insights actually are, and such insights don't prove useful in their daily lives. Psychologists have studied this to a large extent and found that LSD does gives only the "illusion" of insight: the users are just fooling themselves.
Similarly, scientists have studied Extasy and found it has massive detrimental longterm effects to your IQ.
If you are looking for insight, read widely. In particular, read stuff that challenges your beliefs. The most interesting people I know are those who are widely read; the most boring people I've ever known have been heavy drug users. Similarly, I've noticed that the "insights" drugs give people does not change their beliefs. On the other hand, I've notice significant alteration in people's views on life when they start to read widely.
In the end, while wannabe hackers partake in anything counterculture, but all the interesting/talented ones I know are not into heavy drug use.
PS: I don't think drugs are immoral or that they should be illegal; just something that virtually never leads to anything useful.
You know, I don't think that drug use is necessarily related to the computer / internet aspect so much as the experience that is professional education. Let's face it, college is conducive to drug use. There's caffeine (or stronger stimulants) for late nights and early morning classes, alcohol and/or pot for coming down after a four-hour final, and maybe a little acid and X for those times when a student is feeling a little "experimental" (as they are wont to do). You see it in engineering students of all types, but also in med and law students. Hell, I've swapped some good drinking stories with my dentist. The difference between them and students in other less-stressful majors is that they seem to be doing it to be better - to be able to pull off the impossible that is demanded of them.
"The flame that burns twice as bright burns only half as long" - Les Claypool.
bp
woxy.com - Bam! The Future of Rock and Roll
Frankly, I think you have to be a pretty darn boring person if drugs are going to enhance your creativity. Some pretty creative stuff has been written by people when they weren't high, and some of it is actually readable.
If you're going to use drugs recreationally, that's you're perogative, but please don't go around telling people it makes you more creative or smarter. First of all, it's a crutch. If you need drugs to perform, then that's a sign of mental addiction.
Second of all, the drug of choice among many "innovative thinkers" is marijuana. It's not too hard to spot somebody who used pot heavily during their adolescence, because they usually lag about 5 seconds behind any conversation. Certainly there are enough successful pot users (e.g. Carl Sagan) to show that not all marijuana users will suffer "amotivational syndrome". However, I think Sagan would have been an extrodinary person no matter what. But what about joe average stoner? How many of them just sit around all day eating potato chips and watching Cheech and Chong movies?
Then there's LDS. Nevermind the people who don't have a sober friend guide them while they trip and end up killing themself in some dumb way or another, screwing with your brain chemistry has nasty effects like flashbacks later in life. Whee!
The article talked alot about how this author likes esctasy. That is some dangerous #$@*. Watch Go if you don't believe me. Whoo, apparently ecstacy can cause Parkinson's disease-type symptoms. You can be just like Dr. Hawking! yay!
Actually, the only reason I'm ranting is because I'm sick of my drug culture friends always talking about how they miss doing LSD and such. Yesterday one of them was trying to convince me that Cyberia was a great book. Apparently it deals on this whole drug culture/computer culture thing.
I'm not really offended, but I'm a little surprised at the number of testimonials where people say they took [drug] and wrote [program], which is the greatest piece of software they've ever created.
Personally, I drink tea, water, sometimes a Dr Pepper when I program, and that works just fine for me. All of my best programming happens when I concentrate deeply enough on my work.
So let's hear it: How many of you wrote [program] without [drug]?
This is a manual virus. Copy it to your sig and help me spread!
Oh shit I knew someone was going to start cracking down on all the caffeine in Mt Dew sooner or later.. Guess I will be in Dew rehab soon !!! write your congressmen to stop this..
If there is anything in science fiction to say drugs are good, it's in Dune. Melange allows for
1) extended life (300+ years)
2) expanded mental processes(even prescience for some)
3) safe, instantaneous space travel
4) immunity to certain poisons
5) Cool eyes of the Ibad(blue on blue) :)
One interesting fact about drug laws is that they apparently work in reverse.
I.e. in the Us possession of small amounts of Marijuana is a misdemeanor at best and is allowed for medical and religious uses in some states. In some scandinavian countries it is fully legal. Jamaica takes the opposite path of making it a criminal matter and sending you away for years.
Jamaica has slightly more than 2X the ganja usage of the US and 4X that of Holland and Denmark.
Go figure.
When Prohibition became an issue on the ballots Al Capone contributed heavily to the candidate who wanted to extend it and spread rumors against the one who wanted to end prohibition.
Why ? Because legal drugs are always cheaper. There is a premium that smugglers make.
This explains the way to actually win the drug war. Don't fight it. Make it legal. "Don't sniff and drive" is your motto.
Put draconian taxes on it ( 60% or so ) and ban advertising in all forms from the outset. Those taxes can go to policing the add ban and building rehab centers.
Do that for 2 years and you will have a slight increase in usage. After 5 years you are back where you started and after 10 you have 1/2 the addicts you had at the beginning.
Won't happen in any democratic country though. This formula is a perfect way to loose elections.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
actually, i have noticed that many people that do drugs aren't very computer literate and just do it to get a high. i know this cuz i hang out with these people at school and if i ever being to talk about computers, they all stare at me as if i had 3 heads.
"All generations were lost by something, always had and always will be"-Hemingway
Well, I do have several friends that are regular users of both weed and/or LSD, but I expected more out of the Slashdot community. I expected that most people posting would have some inkling of intelligence and realize that drug use simply detaches one from reality and cannot possible help one understand what is going on around them in a clearer way. To tell the truth I am disappointed in most of the people posting here that condone the use of drugs, hard or soft. There is no reason to alter one's perception of the world, other than in an attempt to run away from something that one is too weak to deal with. Any problem that one may have can be handled through thought and physical activity. Drugs do not help society in any way that I have seen and I do not foresee any positive effect that they may have in the future.
Um, really, I forgot...
======
"Rex unto my cleeb, and thou shalt have everlasting blort." - Zorp 3:16
Sacred cows make the best burgers.
wow 180 IQ, thats pretty impressive
that would mean you are pretty much one of (if not the) most intelligent people in the world now.
(at least according to the statistic definition of the IQ number)
I am quite disturbed that someone so intelligent can be so arrogant and downright condescending, without making a single supporting statement to any of your wild accusations.
regarding volkwagen being the peoples car, yes you are correct, the philosophy is to design a practical and economical vehicle for the masses. To do that takes an incredible amount of effort and VW makes without a question some of the finest vehicles on the market today.
My not quite 180 IQ can handle a rebuttal, so I won't hide behing AC. (and I am quite proud to say my IQ is pretty much in the 'normal' range)
Well I am quite sory for the general gramatical flow of my post but I have heard of cases where people actually took Prozac and ended up killing themselves. The number one state for Prozac prescriptions is Utah, USA.
There is clinical documented evidence that indicated that eratic brain function can result from giving drugs like this to healthy mentally sound people. The pattern was something like this: guy goes into a doctor because he has a back ache, doctor gives him prozac because he appears depressed, guy starts acting quite eratically mood swings and such, rapid changes in behaviour and then eventual suicide. If I were to give yuou say heart medication yould you be in tip top shape? How about something that is supposed to cure seizures? See the point is that a drug that is supposed to counteract something that is wrong with you has ingredients that are supposed to balance or stop the chemical agents or cellular processes that are causing this.
If you think that there are no problems with drugs then why are there so many people who become addicted and all these dead people or people who have had measurable decreased intelligence after abusing drugs for years (Jimmy has slured speech and can't preform basic motor functions without difficulty)?
Oh I know what happened! You see our Evil Uncle Sam decided that all those hippies were making too much trouble and so he engineered all these hard core street drugs and got everyone addicted. Or even better he decided to "spike" all of those "pure" drugs with some of his own wacky stuff and discredit all those "reputable" drug "vendors" right?
In China during the mid 1800's we had a little wide scale problem with this.
You see Americn and British (yeah it wasn't just the "evil" Americans this time) thought that getting all of the native people of China hooked on opium was a really cool idea. Then the Chinese got really pissed and decided to kick ass. Well as it turned out the combined forces of the drug dealers and their governments allowed them to prevail. However after what happened to all the Chinese and all the people in Europe and North America there started a reform movement.
I know that people have certain rights however getting physically damaged s usually not something that people enjoy. Can I take a razor blade and just randomly start cutting myself? Sure dosn't mean that it's a cool idea. What about addiction? I have had people in my genetic past who have been addicted to alchol and tobacco. There is a very storng possibility that if say I started smoking pot that I will also become addicted. This is totally unacceptable. We don't need more druggies in the world and we don't need more related fatalities clogging hostpital ER rooms when more people who chose not to use/abuse drugs are dieing.
I am not an idiot because I have seen things which all point the other way with drugs and such. People getting sick, people becomming dependent, people going to jail, people loosing the ability to think and function. Anything that destroys the brain is bad and should be avoided. I think one of the worst diseases is Althertiezmers(sp) because you just loose yourself.
Furthermore I would like some conclusive proof that in fact drugs can improve my productivity. I would be willing to try this little experiment: I will pump myself full of all fof these illegal drugs for the rest of my life and allow for daily/weekly cat scans/MRIs to determine it I am well; adding to this is a complete physical that will detect cancer and other nasties that are there. If I become a vegetable I will be mercifully shot and put our of my misery. Both will necessitate a series of comprehensive round the clock analysis by various teams of psychologists and other professionals who sill determine that I am indeed functioning and efficient.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
Why do hackers like drugs? Simple.
[Psychedelic] Drugs allow you to hack your brain.
Think about it: you've been given a courtesy copy of the world's most powerful computer. You play with it for 20 years or so and then a friend shows you these five or six TCP ports you had never noticed were open.
And the government will put you in jail for telnetting to them. Even though it's your own computer.
Remind anybody of the DeCSS shrinkwrap license fiasco?
The anti-drug laws are one of the worst things to happen to this country. There is no shortage of objective independant evidence that the correct solution is legalisation (perhaps requiring you to get a lissence to sell or even take drugs; thus preventing dealers from abusing their clients additions, etc.) Instead, we imprison insane numbers of non-violent ciminals and create violent criminals to provide the serivce of a dealer. I think we all know I could go on for days agreeing with the above post about the evil shit our gov. dose in the name of the war on drugs, so instead I will draw your attention to one little point which is relevent to this discussion.
My question is: If this law is passed would it be illegal for slashdot to post this story?
Jeff
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
You know, as I was reading some of these comments, one of them struck a note. At first I was thinking to myself that all the techies I know, including myself, are pretty straight-laced. Personally, I have never tried what most Americans would consider to be "drugs" - marijuana, etc. But then, I started thinking of all those nights at the bar...drinking to forget about the week's events...drinking to feel "good", enjoying the way that you suddenly start to feel affection for those around you, as though this is the way life is really supposed to be. Then Monday rolls around, and it's back to the grind of the "real" world. I think that everyone secretly yearns for those moments "under the influence". What does it mean when we look to drugs to feel good? It doesn't matter if the drug is alcohol, or Prozac, or pot. What does that say about the world? We all use, to some extent, to enter a world that is much closer to the one in our dreams, the one where everyone is friendly and loving, and everything is OK. Monday through Friday afternoon, we're just in denial.
Well, it was a decade ago, and the games were different, but I admit to playing a couple of different games on acid. The results were, well, interesting... These were games I was good at, and I found that I was still good at them, though the game seemed to require less thought and matter less. I recall not having quite the same playing style. In one case I was playing the WWII flight sim "Their Finest Hour", and I did quite a few more barrel rolls than I normally would have as I shot down the ME-109s.
In other words, I suspect that Thresh on acid would still kick your ass, but you might see him wandering the corridors looking at the pretty colors just before he fragged you.
The cake is a pie
I love to program. I love linux. I love to get paid programming and working with linux. I also like to smoke nugs afterwork when relaxing with friends, or once or twice a month eat some mushrooms by myself in a dark room with no music and tripitate (meditative tripping). For lack of a better term I guess you could call my tripitating my spiritual or riligous practice.
Unfortunately I don't get to tripitate for the next 5 years. I am on probabation for growing a small amount of mushrooms for my own personal religous use. The technical legal term for this in the united hates is Manufacturing of a Schedule I Controlled Substance, maximum penalty 30 years. I copped a plea to a lesser charge, Possession of a Schedule I, plead under the first offender act (no admission of guilt, no felony record upon completion of sentence), and was sentenced to $1000 in fines and 5 years of probation. I can't leave the state of Georgia for five years except for short trips with permission, and I can't practice my spiritual communion.
I can't change the laws in this country. The constitution is a joke.
I can take my talents and abilities (and my income, and my taxes) and move to a better country.
When I am off probation, I will move to somewhere like the Netherlands. Canada has a special immigration program just for highly skilled computer workers (and mushrooms are a trivial misdemeanor). You can even legally purchase mushrooms at "head" shops in Japan.
I will find a nation that needs people with my skills, and I will find a nation that allows me to practice my religion and exercise what should be my rights as a human being. I hope that this trend catches on, and that this country will start to be drained of its intelligent resources...
In the end, a financial motivation is the only thing that will ever cause the united hates to legalize marijuana and sacred mushrooms. I'm doing my part by leaving as soon as I legally can.
all i can say is that everytime i go to a rave a particular song played sticks in my head for like 3 days until i get the mp3 of napster and play it out. Of course, the problem is that it never quite matches how it sounded on E until you hear it on E again.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
Unfortunately, what happened to me is what happens to some people- it stopped working for me. It stopped buffering me from the increasingly horrible reality, but I kept getting more and more compulsive about it, and then I'd still be able to step back and look at myself and wonder, what the hell? I'd always put drugs into me like they were fuel, but I began questioning whether a life like that (in worse and worse surroundings) was even worth living.
Roughly around the point where I didn't give a damn anymore and would settle for anything as long as it was different, I quit using, also drinking alcohol. That hasn't changed though I'm somewhat older now. One funny thing- I ended up drinking coffee so intensely that I shook and couldn't think straight! So I ended up giving up coffee 'cos I couldn't use it like a normal person :) still consume caffeinated beverages, but only ones like Coke and black tea.
Last of all I gave up smoking (tobacco), again only when I was good and ready. Good and ready constituted having the flu, smoking anyway (of course ;) ) and being rendered literally unable to breathe at times, in acute pain. I threw away big freezer bags full of tobacco (being a good hoarder I keep bulk amounts of such things). Never did manage the 'use the last bits up then quit' maneuver, for me it's always had to be dumping the whole habit at a random moment of "Augh! ENOUGH!".
I'm not terribly surprised so much of Slashdot is on drugs. Hell, most of the world is. It is jarring that you can have a Slashdot discussion on copyright and musicians and so many people will leap in arguing in defense of THE LAW and yet, drugs? Those don't seem to count, you don't see the same arguments, the same ferocity. I am for decriminalization, though, mostly so you can get a tax base on drugs, and so we can start dealing with the unpleasant realities of the situation out in the open rather than having them still there but always kept secret. Criminalization doesn't do shit to diminish drug use, frankly.
If anybody needed to see someone saying 'I stopped using drugs, you can stop', I'm quite happy to say it. If that sounds real trivial then you wouldn't understand :) now, I know loads of people will flame me as usual and eat my karma for daring to suggest that a person might be happier without drugs. Well, that's too bad, because that's what I found. These days I'm not a balky machine running on drugs and keeping a constant quiet inventory of my 'fuels'- I'm just me (albiet with plenty of coca-colas :) )
It seems to me that this is a good thing to be- anybody else wanting to try it, ask yourself- do you want to be free?
Well, I know about 5 people who have used acid without problems. Then there was one person who had manic-depressive tendencies after trying LSD. But that person probably had the mental problems in him even before trying LSD. I share the opinion of many other psychonauts that most mental problems associated with LSD are problems that are already there in some form before the LSD trip, but which 'surface' during the trip. Doing LSD is definitely not a very wise thing to do, but it can be a lot of fun as well:-)
and it's here to stay. But as has been said it's been criminalized. In todays emerging "wired" society we'll be re-examining the scripted dogma of our last one hundred years and begin moving back to the free society this country once enjoyed.
It won't happen without pain, most likely, but it will be the hackers and other free thinkers that will be in the forefront.
Look closely at the society that has been built around us and you'll see that most of us are criminals, or will be, because of all the laws that have sprung up. The narrow minded and "Big Brother" types have been having a free-for-all for the last thirty years. Unless the General Public starts rejecting what governments are pouring down our gullets things are only going to become more restrictive.
Here's an example:
Indiana Code 6-7-3 A law to collect taxes on illegal controlled substances. It's only purpose is to further penialize those unfortunate souls that are busted with possesion of a controlled substance. Unless you pay the tax before you do the dirty deed, of course.
I know, I'm wandering off topic, but I see it all as a big clash in the future between those who want freedom and those who want control.
Open source vs. Closed source... who will win?
They can't kill ya cook ya and eat ya.
I think we can just say that drugs make most everything better;-) But music I think is the one that benefits the most. I'll take some pink floyd and a bowl of cronic, please!
<SIG>
I think I lost my work ethic while surfing the web. If you find it, please email it to crispy@crotch.caltech.edu.
</SIG>
My sig has a broken link in it.
(Before you flame me for saying that the WoD is a good thing, please read what I'm actually saying in this post.)
One of the main reasons the War on Drugs will not end anytime soon is because it creates the conditions that justify it. Drugs are criminalised, which, by driving the price up and already labelling users as criminals, makes users more likely to commit property crimes to buy drugs; since dealing is illegal, drug distribution is handed over to organised crime, which can afford to protect its networks. This leads to an increase in crime, and an increase in demand for action against crime. Furthermore, the increase in incarceration due to anti-drug laws swells the prison population (already extremely high in the U.S., and growing) and creates industries dependent on anti-drug laws, which oppose any liberalisation and push for tougher laws. (In California, for example, the prison warders' union has emerged as an influential lobby group.)
It is because of these factors that the War on Drugs will not end anytime soon. In fact, it could very well last as long as the United States of America exists in any recognisable form.
because cannabis will be extinct in a few decades time. The U.S. Government is investing billions of dollars in research into biological agents (genetically engineered fungi, viruses and the like) to wipe out drug crops such as cannabis, coca and opium. Once these are developed, it is only a matter of time before said species are wiped out worldwide. (It would not take much effort for a DEA operative to procure a light plane and drop a few spores over most foreign countries.)
Is this Good or Bad(tm)? I don't know, since I haven't the opportunity to partake of any substance to comment on the effects of drugs on coding etc. All I know is that the mainstream in my society is where most drug users come from, and since geeks are normally quite deviant from what is percieved as cool by the Average Young Joe(tm) here, the drug culture doesn't exactly mesh with the Geek Value Code here....in fact, I can't even see any longhair friends around me(bummer)!! :)
I tended to forget what I was doing, finding the light and shadow around the CRT very intertaining, or the feedback from the keyboard sending senations all over my body. Graphics programs and fractals were more fun than bang bangs. Bryce is a hoot.
I wonder why they don't talk like this at "The Gate"?
photosMy Photostream
trust me a few hours wondering the net on acid IS an amazing experience.
Wandering. Wondering. Is that a subtle Freudian slip there?
--
A man who wants nothing is invincible
1987, Harrisburg Pennsylvania
Fifteen people were killed and another 176 were injured in the worst accident in Amtrak's history. Partnership For A Drug-Free America aired millions of dollars worth of free radio spots which proclaimed: "They say marijuana doesn't kill, but I lost my wife and two children in a train accident caused by marijuana."
It was all a hoax. Dr. Delbert J. Lacefield, chief of the Federal Aviation Administration's forensic toxicology unit, later admitted to falsifying blood test results in the Amtrak-Conrail crash, as well as numerous other crashes. Lacefield's claims that THC had been found in blood samples taken from railway employees were exposed as fraudulent in court. Court records show that Lacefield never even performed the laboratory analysis required to detect THC. No one was ever found guilty of using pot and there is no evidence that pot is related to any increase in railway accidents. Since drug testing was instituted, as a federal response to the alleged use of pot in the Amtrak crash, there has been no decline in railway accidents. The engineer accused of smoking pot was, in fact, drunk and had been convicted of driving under the influence a few months earlier.
Yes, I've seen a lot of stimulant abuse (and boy howdy do I mean abuse) in the techie crowd. There's a clearly lowered defense against stimulant use (and for the addictive ones, this usually ends up leading to abuse) among hackers due to odd-schedules and that drive to create that many hacker/coders have. I've been doing more and more coffee since my job moved to 1+1/2 hours from my home, and I'm starting to notice a bit of withdrawral over the weekends....
I've seen a lot of psychadellic use over the last 12 years of being in the hacker community. The drugs of choice seem to be psilocybe mushrooms ('shrooms) and LSD (acid). X (as in extacy, not X11) was never a very popular hacker drug on the east coast as far as I can tell. Many hackers come to psychadellics via simple experimentation, as they tend to be empirically minded and "Just say no" doesn't work very well against that mindset. After a short time, though, most hackers who do psychadellics get caught up in the "how does my brain work" game. Oddly enough I've never seen this have as much negative impact on one's life as a minor addiction to alcohol. Makes one wonder about the relative legallities, doesn't it?
One common thread among all of the hackers I know. None of them do the hard stimulants (e.g. cocaine et al.) or narcotics (e.g. opiates such as opium or morphine). I think this is because intelligent people of any sort tend to do a little research before taking any drug, and the side-effects of these drugs coupled with their massively addictive qualities makes bungie-jumping look like a nice safe passtime.
I feel like this post is an endorsement of drug use, and I want to be very clear: it's NOT. You have to live with your body and brain for the rest of your life, don't get stupid with it. "Just say no" isn't a terrible rule, but if you feel you need to live by another one, take all due caution. Do research. Say no the FIRST time, so you can think it over with a clear head and give it the same priority you would give any major life decision. And, most importantly: peer pressure to do anything you're not comfortable with indicates you have the wrong peers. Talk to them about it, or just find new friends.
If you're still confused, concerned or just want someone to talk to, send me some email, maybe some of what I've seen or been through can help, or maybe I can just help by listening.
Of course, these are all my thoughts and opinions, and my employer would probably be happier if I didn't state them, so there's little chance they agree.
The Government is a large body; if one department calls Criptography a black art, it doesn't mean that is the position of the whole government. That would be like saying that slashdot is bad because some poster said something studpid in one of the forms.
Not exactly. It would be more like calling slashdot bad because everyone who posts stories for slashdot posts stupid ones. Id wouldn't matter (to the end user) how many others working for slashdot could post good stories if they were not responsable for content. The same applys to government, who cares if the dept. of agriculture understands the encryption, the encryption policy makers are all that matters to encryption, and they made bad policy.
To you Slashdot readers who regularly use drugs: grow up! It appears from the comments here that a lot of geeks/hackers use "pschadelics" such as acid/lsd to get an altered state of consciousness. True, this can give a source of creativity/ inspriration, but it is only temporary and causes long-term problems. Is it really worth risking your whole life just for some quick creativity?
If you are really interested in mind travel, such as astral projection, subconscious "hacking," and lucidity, learn to do it the natural way without drugs. Sure, it may take a long time to learn it but you'll get more rewards with no side effects. If you're interested in mind travel I would suggest the following page:
http://www.xsite.ltd.uk/wren/.
Linux: Long live the source code.
There was actually some comedian a few years ago that told a tale of 3 stoners at woodstock 69 who ran out of weed and came up during the dead set and realized 'wow these guys really do suck!'
>> I realize that all the skill and knowledge I have can be lost with a single sip of the evil, and thats something I don't want to risk.
That's really not true. Who told you that? They're either lying or are highly misinformed. Trust me on this - you could do a hit of acid now and again, or a few pints/joints, and lose nothing but your stiff outlook.
Then again, you could also have a freak reaction and die, either directly or indirectly. Before everyone jumps all over this at once, I'm not saying this is common, I'm saying it has happened. I mean, hell, sure statistically, it's rare, but if you're the one in a million,that doesn't make a big difference then, does it?
Being needlessly judgemental and uptight can hurt you as much in life (and in the computer biz!) as any booze or drug use.
How does making the _personal_ decision not to do drugs make someone judgemental?
Being needlessly reckless and trying something just for the sake of curiosity can hurt you, too. There's something to be said for having an open mind, but there's also something to be said for the personal strength involved in saying how much is enough. Whether that's some or none. And that's a personal decision. Making the decision not to do drugs does not make you judgemental.
Computers are not everything in life.
No, and neither is trying drugs. Really!
How do you explain then that HALF of the people in US State and Federal prisons are in on drug charges then? That's 1 million out of 2 million inmates... do the resear ch if you're really interested, it's there.
Ever notice that the "Crime Rate" is supposedly "going down"... Know why? Because "drug crimes" are NOT INCLUDED in the crime rate statistics that are commonly reported... "Prison crowding" is one of the biggest lies in the last 60 years.
-Erik
Frankly this really sounds like one of those meaningless deconstructionist philosophy rants. The ideas presented appear to be self-consistent but have no bearing on the real world, unless your sense of self is so far gone that the real world is too difficult for you to comprehend and you must make up a fantasy-world that works according to your own rules.
This actually reminds of the stir that Alan Sokal created a few years ago by submitting a phony paper to Social Text, and blew the lid off some of the really idiotic (and totally irrelavent) ideas coming out of a certain school of philosophy. The editors and they're supposedly intelligent insights had become so disconnected from reality that when someone (Sokal) came along and suggested that the real world doesn't really exist, they fell for it, hook, line, and sinker...
Shop Smart, Shop S-mart!
Drugs are cool. Just thought I would say that. . .
This is a manual virus. Copy it to your sig and help me spread!
Some drugs (notably opium) were thought to improve imagination. Drug use has been part of science fiction for a long time, from "The Hound of Tindalous" to Dune to Cyberpunk. My personal opinion of drugs is that there are too many variables involved with the taking of them for it to be advisable. For example, if some drug were said to increase intelligence or concentration, my thought would be "Yes, but what else does it do?" In fact, I am notorious for not taking my perscribed medications for the same reason (before anyone gets ideas about me, heh, I'm talking about pain medication I got after I had a tooth removed and the like).
I suppose if I were a pharmicological expert, I would approach the subject with less trepidation. As it is, I'm perfectly happy as a sex addict not to need any other expensive addictions in my life ^_^ (Not to mention my gaming addiction...)
Incidentally, I'm a Libertarian, so I disagree with the whole war on drugs thing even though I think some drugs are probably bad for people. (So is banging your head against the wall, but I wouldn't criminalize that, either.)
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
I smoked pot in college and experimented with psychelics as well. But I found that interest in drugs was well distributed among people with different interests -- with no notable concentration amongst people interested in computers. What I did notice is that many people used their experiences with pot and psychedelics to think in different ways about that which they were interested: computer science, biology, psychology, physics, even politics.
It does not follow that because some people think and talk about politics while tripping, that politics and tripping are somehow linked. In the same way it is not rational to say that because some people think about computers and cyberspace or even neural networks while they are stoned, that somehow drug and computer use go together. They don't go together and it is not useful to suggest otherwise.
My view or drugs is they should neither be glorified nor demonized. The decision to use or not use drugs should be a personal decision. The governments war on drugs is a failure and a resourse sink. This should be acknowledged and rational policies developed.
I think that innovators tend to be counterculture in nature which is why many in science (especially theory), philosophy, and technology have been somewhat of a subversive nature throughout history. It isn't that drugs and geeks have to go together but that they just tend to as long as drugs are also counterculture which of course the drug war keeps going. Also I think drugs can be used to help boost creativity and relaxation for overworked geeks trying to keep up. Geeks are artists and art has often been linked with creativity and drugs. I myself have learned to psych myself up which causes various natural drugs to be produced and also now and then drink alcohol or Pepsi to boost myself. Sleep deprivation does a good job of boosting creativity too. When I'm stuck I go without sleep for a week or so and it comes to me how to do something.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
I'm willing to agree that powerful psychedelics can "break" some people. However, I'm also willing to agree that going to the grocery store HAS "broken" some people. It happened to the mother of a friend of mine. She just freaked out one nice summer day, and has never been sane since. Does that mean that we should ban grocery stores?
In the absence of serious statistical analysis, anecdotal evidence of risk is not just meaningless, but actually danerous. It just encourages speculation and pointless screaming.
For example, I myself have done LSD several hundred times. I've even managed to do some DMT, which makes LSD look like distilled water . . .
I am (surprise!) completely stable, well-paid, chock full of assets, and generally an upstanding member of society. However, this is ALSO just an anecdote, and therefore suspect.
I guess my only point is this:
In the absence of serious scientific analysis (the kind of analysis that the government simply REFUSES to sponsor), I think that this is the only sensible approach.Some people will freak out. Oh well; that's life.
I have no
I refer you to my follow-up post
Also, let me clarify my definition of criminals, for my previous comment, as people who victimize other people in violation of the law.
In other words, let's exclude people who use drugs and have consensual sex with other adults in violation of the law, etc.
-Peter
> What's the connection to computer culture? I'd
> agree with the earlier poster that computer
> people do less drugs. Maybe because mostly
> 'cool' kids do drugs and computer geeks don't
> fit that profile. Maybe because it's difficult
> to use a computer while high.
Well perhaps I can offer a differnt perspective
for you.
I was never "cool". There were always circles and
groups I was partially accepted in, I wasn't a
total outcast. However, I never truely felt I
fit in. I was always on the fringe, to sum I
prefered sitting with a few friends discussing
philosophy then throwing spitballs around at
lunch.
Ever since I first read about drugs, I was hooked.
It was over a year later when I smoked my first
joint, 5 years before my first hit of acid.
However, from the first text files I found, I knew
I had found something that I will spend the rest
of my life with.
The human mind and the mystic of the world of
drugs amazes and enthrawls me. It is like a whole
new world. It is a way for me to explore the
worlds within my own mind. A way to exist where
fantasy is reality.
In truth, I am not a heavy user. I smoke pot maybe
a couple of times a week at most, other drugs
maybe once a month (hardly ever less than 2
weeks apart). I am fascinated as much by my own
mind as by the computers I make my living
programming on.
To me a good drug is like a good book, or a good
poem, it takes you to a new realm and lets your
imagination take hold. That is the way I view
them.
Interestingly, DARE, the program in the US where
police are sent into schools to teach kids that
drugs are bad, has been shown to have a curious
effect. Kids who graduate from DARE are MORE
likely to use drugs as teenagers, than studtens
who didn't!
Why? Well some have postulated (and I agree)
that it is becuase DAREs founders, like many,
have forgotten that drugs are interesting. You
can't teach about them without exposing people
to the idea of them....and making many interested.
It was also postulated that in 20 years someone
will ask the Next Alexander Shulgin why he
became a chemist and began researching psychedelic
drugs and he will reply that he was interested
ever since he heard about acid in DARE.
(if you have an opionon about drugs...go read
Shulgins book Pihkal, it is likely to
change your perspective a bit)
-Steve
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
Reality's a bitch ain't it? Here's something make you feel better; go take a phenothiazine tranquilizer. Calm ya down plus it's the best for nausea... Yours WDK - WKiernan@concentric.net
drugs == bad, eh? But I owe my life to drugs. Penicillin cured my heart infection when I was three years old.
Oooooh, you don't mean drugs, you mean heroin. Well why the heck don't you be a little more specific? Penicillin != heroin. Drugs != heroin. Yeah, heroin's pretty dangerous. Addictive too, so they say. Good for terminal cancer patients, though.
Say, did you know that six hundred thousand American citizens were arrested last year for possesion of marijuana? That's marijuana, not heroin. Just as penicillin != heroin, marijuana != heroin. I can think a few more productive ways to spend ten billion dollars of the taxes we Americans paid last year than on hounding six hundred thousand of my fellow citizens into jail over a nearly perfectly harmless vice.
Yours WDK - WKiernan@concentric.net
In order for this one incident to prove that marijuana impairs one's judgment, you would either have to assert that no person not under the influence of marijuana has ever made a similar fatal mistake, which is absurd - unintoxicated people crash airplanes, wreck buses, blow up nuclear power plants, etc., on a pretty regular schedule, as you read in the daily news - or else you would have to demonstrate that the statistical likelihood of wrecking a train is significantly higher if one is full of marijuana fumes - and that may be an arguable proposition, but you can't do that on the basis of one sample.
Yours WDK - WKiernan@concentric.net
Christ sake, you can die of insulin shock. Dead. If this is a troll it's a particularly obnoxious one.
Info on the Boston Church of Christ
-Jasa -- Linux - The SOURCE will be with you, ALWAYS
for a young "hackerish" techie, the only thing more rewarding than tinkering with a computer is tinkering with your own brain.
thats the way kids are these days. they are are entertained by things that "fuck with their head." a perfect example of this being in how bizare recent big movies have been.
Plant wasnt exagerating as much as it might seem when she said products try to be as much like as drug as possible without actually being one.
echo-e
There is a specific type of neuron in humans that is primarily responsible for mood and serotonin control. MDMA alters this by forcing said neurons to release all stored serotonin at once. Given high enough doses of MDMA, these neurons will suffer metabolic collapse (due to some unknown process, we don't today know exactly what's going on in the cell) and die. The toxic dosage in primates is generally accepted to be around 2.5-3mg/Kg. Effects from this damage include mood swings, depression, etc. However, This damage is not permanent, and the affected neurons regenerate after 6-12 months. However, for this to happen, you have to stop taking MDMA for the entire period.
Additionally, doses under the toxic level have no lasting permanent effects.
you can get mor info and specifics at www.lycaeum.org
Chocolate is mostly a food, but it does contain small quantities of drug compounds, including caffeine and THC-like chemicals. I've heard that you'd need to eat many pounds of chocolate to be equivalent to one joint, but then marijuana usage among my friends varies by probably two orders of magnitude, so perhaps some people are more sensitive than others. Also, empirical data suggests that women are much more sensitive to chocolate's mood-altering effects than men.
For more info, here are some choice links from this Google search:
--
Jake
Interesting ideas you might get on pot/LSD/whatever, but the coding process is very rational and process-oriented, which I can't see anyone doing well under anything but stimulants.
Interesting ideas you might get on pot/LSD/whatever, but the coding process is very rational and process-oriented, which I can't see anyone doing well under anything but stimulants.
Ah crap. I accidently posted that without my reply.
Anyway, I was just going to make the comment that you are right about that; I did some LSD awhile ago and I couldn't remember how to FTP, let alone code anything. It was bizairre.
Moral of the story: stick to caffeine for the coding part of the whole deal. =)