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Hollywood Says If You Support Open Source, You're ...
bwt writes: "It now seems that the DVD-CCA has insulted the entire open source movement. They have responded to LiViD leader Matt Pavlovich's attempt to tell California that he doesn't live there and isn't bound by their laws by asking that his motion to quash be denied. Their opposition brief starts out: Defendant Pavlovich is a leader in the so-called 'open source' movement, which is dedicated to the proposition that material, copyrighted or not, should be made available over the Internet for free. "
what's up with the "so-called open source" all through out the brief. The so-called music industry is getting really out of line here.
I'll bet that in a year or two, with the media control that hollywood has. Just mentioning "Open Source" will bring about a bad connotation. Kinda like saying "hacker" to any layperson. Once "Open Source" gets transformed from a good thing (like it is generally considered to be at this time) to a bad thing, all the support that the open source community is getting from companies such as IBM, SUN, SGI, etc will quickly dry up! What company wants to be associated with a group of criminals??
They use Apache:
% telnet www.dvdcca.org 80
Trying 143.227.44.96...
Connected to www.dvdcca.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
HEAD http://www.dvdcca.org/ http/1.1
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 16:26:24 GMT
Server: Apache/1.3.3 (Unix) PHP/3.0.5
Connection: close
Content-Type: text/html
Connection closed by foreign host.
Running on BSDI 3.1.
% telnet www.dvdcca.org
Trying 143.227.44.96...
Connected to www.dvdcca.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
BSDI BSD/OS 3.1 (www.dvdcca.org) (ttyp4)
login:
Yes this is a wide open telnet daemon.
But no, no, DO NOT MESS WITH IT !
That would be utterly stupid.
Just repeat everywhere that it is very naive
to leave an unblocked telnet port on a public
server. How these people could be trusted
when they claim to have designed an encryption
scheme for protecting copyrighted DVDs?
Paw done shot up the Open Source Movement agaaaayan...
--0210
Amazing that the people who truly 'believe that all material, copyrighted or not, should be available for free on the net' already do this. I'm talking about the warez groups who use nothing but nyms, and who are responsible for probably 75% or more of the illegal S/W that gets traded on the internet and on burned CD-Roms that get passed back and forth every day. I've noticed several of the same names popping up year after year, without ever getting caught, dealing in "gold edition" software.
Now, if these people can be the thorns in the side of commercial S/W for all these years, and still not get hauled into court with the regularity that the "controversial programs" authors do (witness Matell, the MPAA, RIAA, Metal-lickas, ad nauseum) it would seem that maybe their methods ought to be studied a bit more carefully.
Of course, then the powers that be could simply use that anonyminity to paint them with the same brush as common criminals, and who would really want to risk their good name defending someone who can't use theirs? More effective perhaps, but then the whole distribution system becomes the online equivalent of a speakeasy. And this prohibition may never cease if we decide to fade into the shadows with our exchange of code and software.
You both have it almost right, I believe that your opposing views are simply two sides to the same coin.
--0210
Take that: the Statue of Liberty is in New York, N-e-w Y-o-r-k! But we need to forgive them, people in Hollywood make stuff up for a living.
<IANAL>
Yes, but they wouldn't win. Speech in court (as in Congress) is protected from slander, libel and defamation laws. Perhaps RMS should challenge them (like Prescott Bush to Joe McCarthy) to restate their allegations in an unprotected forum. Then, not only FSF but IBM, Compaq, Sun, AOL, HP, Red Hat, Jabber.com, Dell, et al, might have a decent case.
</IANAL>
They rip DVD's to raw video files, then MPEG compress them into VCD's. I've seen a couple movies done this way, they're flawless.
I done knocked that Open Source right out, I'll knock it out again.
I'm the new king of Content, USA
<with apologies to the late Andy Kaufman>
hey, remember the "batallones dignidad" and the "rabiblancos"?
Those protests of pot-banging and driving around town waving white flags?
The mandatory attendance at government sponsored protests for govt. workers?
Wow, that was some crazy stuff.
-------
-------
"It was people! People soiled our green!"
ah, there are more categories than just those two, as I'm sure you know!
-------
-------
"It was people! People soiled our green!"
U.S. Army brat - I know, I know, you might technically consider me a Zonian, but believe me, the "real" Zonians do not think they are the same thing (and I wouldn't want to be called a Zonian anyway - not that I didn't know some nice Zonians, but most of them didn't speak Spanish and had no interest whatsoever in what was going on outside the CZ - then again, most Military people were the same way - I was just lucky I got to live in town for a while and already spoke Spanish!).
My dad worked at the embassy at first (so we were living in town - and no, NOT Punta Paitilla with the rest of the Americans
My favorite thing that happened (scary, but kinda funny) was when the govt. tabloid paper (can't remember the name exactly - maybe "La Barricada"?) photocopied the diplomatic carnets of all embassy personnel (and families!) and published them under the heading: "These are the ones who are starving your children!". Ah, good thing it was a bad picture and you could hardly recognize anybody.
-------
-------
"It was people! People soiled our green!"
Open source is about lifting restrictions, not placing them. I mean, I hate the DVD CCA as much as the next person, but once you let them compromise your ideals, you're done for.
Hrm. Tried browsing in highest-score-first mode with your (internal) twit filter turned on?
:)
It's probably failure of the latter bit that's giving you trouble.
Seriously, most of the higher-score posts regarding the DVD-CCA and DMCA articles have been a bit more... reasonable. The Napster stuff... <shrug>.
Unfortunantly thats not a list of links, its just list of URL's so it isn't illegal under that 'hyperlinking is illegal' concept.
You also have to remember that the FSF dosen't endorse the "open-source" banner, but rather the "free software" banner. Although the two camps have very similar ideas, it seems unlikely RMS and company would go to court over a name they don't even support. See fsf.org for their position on free vs Open.
corran:~$ telnet dvdcca.org Trying 143.227.44.96... Connected to dvdcca.org. Escape character is '^]'. BSDI BSD/OS 3.1 (www.dvdcca.org) (ttyp4) login:
:)\n"
if ($user =~ m/shaldannon/i) {
print "\n-- $user
}
What is your Slash Rating?
Libel
-[ Shanoyu - wtr - planetmofo.com ]-
bwt writes: "It now seems that the DVD-CCA has insulted the entire open source movement.
Insulted, yes. But, contrary to innumerable people's assertions in this thread, this assertion in DVDCCA's opposition brief does not constitute libel.
In defamation law, one of the required elements, for an act of libel, is "identification": The party spoken of must be a person in the eyes of the law (which, obviously, includes corporations, arms of government, etc.). Thus, you can, for example, make scurrilous factual assertions about unspecified lawyers all day long without running afoul of defamation law -- as long as you don't address (identify) specific individuals, law firms, trade associations, etc.
Had DVDCCA made this assertion about the Open Source Initiative, the Free Software Foundation, the Debian Project, or any other group with recognised existence as a legal "person", it might now be at risk for a libel action. Since it disparaged "the open source movement", however, it did not violate that law.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
Umm, how exactly is Microsoft in any way involved with open source (other than competing with it, of course), let alone "at the forefront of the open source movement"? Granted, they've absorbed some BSD code here and there, but they're not exactly public about it, and AFAIK they don't release any of their own products as open source.
--
That was the 1950s, not 1970s...
No, in the 1950s Hollywood was a major target of the Red Scare. Role reversal in the 1970s.
Hmm, there must be some hidden version of slashdot that you are reading, because that type of intelligent commentary is not what I've been finding here.
Can you give me the URL?
Maybe before saying the accusations are untrue you should go back and reread some of the slashdot articles. The support for Napster articles would be a good start.
Submit this story ("OSS is pirating, illegal, blah blah blah") and the "CNN is posting DeCSS as well" to every news site you can. Don't worry if you think somebody else has already informed the news site.. Send them another email stating the same thing. Be Polite! Nothing is gained from ranting and raving at the folks who will be publicizing (hopefully) the idiocy of the MPAA and DVD CCA. If ABCNews or MSNBC get 300 emails urging them to do the research and post the story about this wild hypocrisy... it isn't a guarantee, but it's much stronger than a single voice.
Agreed. I'll be voting Nader as well. I even wrote a letter (and snail mailed it!) to the Commission on Presidential Debates both in protest of their decision to cut Nader and Bucanan out of the Debates, and against their taking corporate donations to pay for them. It's just plain wrong to take donations from corporate organizations that have a vested interest in the outcome of these debates. I think they call that "conflict of interest."
The bat-signal thing is cute. However, my office phone number is 510-558-1133, call any time. This information is in my web pages, in fact there is a downloadable vcard with phone numbers at www.perens.com . Email to bruce@perens.com isn't always answered (I get busy) but is always read.
Thanks
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
You didn't know that? Check out Citizens United for a Decent Internet, (in particular the March 8th story) referred in this weeks excellent NTK . I always have trouble telling if these rather extreme christian things are serious or not, but I think it is.
"don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
If by "firewall" you mean "apply legal threats to stop anyone peering with Krygystan" then, yes.
They see that the Music Industry acted too little too late and they don't want that to happen to them. Sure, now you can't find a download, but over the next few years when fiber starts arriving curbside and into the house, hundreds of MBs seems small. They realize its inevitable and see the need to stop it before its too late. And they'll use all their firepower to do so. Problem is, it already is too late.
Bleh!
As Larry Wall has said "Open source should be about giving away things voluntarily, when you force someone to give you something, it's no longer giving, it's stealing. Persons of leisurely moral growth often confuse giving with taking."
I think those of us who really believe in "open source" would appreciate it if all you "morally relaxed" individuals would try to shut the fsck up when you're in public. Thanks.
EOF
Has any copy right laws have been broken? I do not think so. A trade secret was let out of the bag. ot a copyright unless they say that the css keys are copyrighted which I do not believe they are.
IIRC, these all represented violations of the licensing agreements between the MPAA and manufacturers. To the best of my knowledge, there has been no major action taken against these companies. Hence, the only thing that makes sense is intent. They didn't intend to harm the industry. If you read this order, the issue of intent is prominently mentioned.
Personally, I think that this sucks. However, the reason for these types of cases is simple. They cite past cases but there isn't one the actually is directly applicable to this one. The issue of reverse engineering is a murky one. The higher courts haven't decided on this, but they ultimately will.
IANAL, but I have many friends who are, and I like to think that I'm not the Baron of Gray Matter (hey Curly!). The key thing is intent and the presence or absence of any other legitimate use. Why do you think that recipes for bombs are allowed on the net?
Finally, this should end the debate between the semantic argument between open and free source. Did I say open, no I meant to say free.
What could be seen as the 3D data navigator in Jurassic Park was, in fact, that SGI program you're referring to. IMDb's trivia section on that movie mentions it.
Technically it was an IRIX system, but I digress.
Which is (one development branch of) Unix. Every OS looking like out there descends from the original Unix and branched off at one time in Unix history (including the BSDs) with the notable exception of Linux, which was programmed from scratch and is therefore often (and correctly) called a Unix-like OS.
Zero Party System
Why have parties at all? Why not have it so that representatives actually represent the people? So that the MP, sentator, congressman etc. have a mandate to represent the views and interests of the (local) community who elected them, and to vote accordingly not as instructed by the party hierarchy.
If a false statement is made in court, then it should be subject to greater penalty as it is then either perjury or perverting the course of justice, which are serious crimes.
I basically just posted the same thing; you just said it better.
Maybe we could combine your post with mine, and THEN we'd have a "Global Boston Tea Party"!
He was not the recognized leader in Paname, ie, he was just a thug dictator.
Most countries in the world don't have democratically elected leaders, including quite large & prosperous ones.
Panama is supposed to have democratically elected leaders. It's just that when you have power hungry generals, they tend to take over.
Shoulndn't be a problem now that there's no army like in Costa Rica.
- sigs are for wimps.
But this is totally irrelevent to my point, which is that US courts don't give much of a damn about juridstiction.
...).
I know, you just made it sound like we where upset he was taken, most people were grateful (now the extreme force, that's another argument
More on topic, yes the US oversteps it's bound all the time, specially in Latin America. However, the invasion itself is not the best example, there are clauses about safety of the canal, and how the US can step in.
The imprisonment of Noriega, now that is a valid point.
When the US was worried about communism and guaranteed access to the Canal, the plight of the Panamanian people was but an inconvenience.
Oh and the Noriega situation had zero to do with Communism.
- sigs are for wimps.
Why does one need to be rich? The perfect person to bring suit against any big organization commiting perjery/slander in this manner is somebody poor. Preferably a law student. Think about it. As a student, the opportunity cost of filing a lawsuit is very low. The cost is mearly your time. Don't hire a lawyer, just go in and represent yourself. You only have to do a decent job at it. You can sit back and smile, and realize that every hour of proceedings is costing you maybe $10 an hour (as a student), while it is costing those big corporations perhaps 1000x as much. Now, there is the slight risk that they might sue you back for their legal costs. So it would be wise to make sure that your case has a decent amount of validity, and to perhaps check if the EFF would be willing to volunteer legal aid in the event of cuch a countersuit.
Actually, if he dotes on slashdot, it may very well be spelled right.
--
I ate something that disagreed with me. Maybe I should have cooked him first.
Um, when has big business ever played by the rules?
.sig
Not reading
My plan is to pimp before they realize I'm a jackass. Hit 'em hard and fast.
s'true - when you hit 50 you quit moving up.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
My reaction to this can best be stated in just one word:
ANGRy
Brought to you by Frobozz Magic Penguin Fodder.
Can FSF sue them for defamation?
First of all, the prosecution has to prove that the defedant knew otherwise when they stated their "facts". In this case, that means if any MPAA internal documents say something along the lines of... "open source is a way of licensing software so that users are free to do pretty much whatever they please with the product." The problem is discovering that document and getting it to court. Given the roster of companies involved in open source, the resources to discover that document in spite of the MPAA do exist, but organizing those resources will be a bitch. Now I'm in no position to start getting things together, but if someone like, say Bruce Perens would just make a few well placed phone calls to, for instance, the DoJ, IBM's legal department, RedHat, Caldera, FSF, et al. I believe the strings are there to be pulled if someone with the right reputation would start pulling them. The statement by the MPAA is obviously false. Dragging them into court for it and proving that they knew otherwise when that statement was filed would prove perjury, and that would raise a lot of eyebrows. After all, if the MPAA lied in one legal brief, who knows how many other times they've lied ;-)
I like to play children's songs in minor keys.
"We're all sons of bitches now." --J. Robert Oppenheimer
and there are a few people who stand behind the coined term in order to enhance their position is this meritocracy we have
If only the US were lucky enough to be an actual meritocracy. I think we live in something closer to an idiocracy.
Seriously though, the people are not the people with enough merit to be in power. I, personally, would love it if the US were a meritocracy. Maybe then we'd see some common sense showing up in the government.
Congrats on your use of HTML extension to English .
The real problem is I didn't recognise the name before I posted...
:)
Ohhh I am sooooooo egg faced....
I still think the interview would be a good idea... ask them about an upcomming IPO
Still... parts of what I said was right on...
parts were from outerspace....
Sorry people.. move on
I don't actually exist.
But some day, HELL-A will sink into the ocean like the TURD CITY it is, leaving nothing but a quiet calm serenity known as...
Arizona Bay!
DMCA is a big piece of crap. Its unlawful in my eyes, it puts too much power in the hands of big corporations, thus, as a citizen of the united states, I declare it null, void, and ILLEGAL.
FUCK THE DMCA.
-=Gargoyle_sNake
-=-=-=-
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Then WTF would you have us do? Kill all the fucking Republicans? (Not that its that bad of an idea.. of course, we just need to take out the poster boy, GWB Jr., the killin'est bast'rd of 'em all in texas).
-=Gargoyle_sNake
-=-=-=-
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
"if we let this open source thing get out of hand pretty soon people will start making their own entertainment and give it away for free ....."
...
Well, they'll always be able to sell porn, cause these longhairs will not have the nice chicks on their hand
haha you ninny, you mean 68040/Fat Binary Compatible ;) I do believe it was a Powerbook that saved the earth from destruction, not a Wintel book.
Wow, if only they had the G4 powerbooks in Titan: AE.. They would have never needed to find the ship to recreate the earth =)
Once again someone confuses liberty with gratis. We'll make our own "free" content thank you very much. However, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that you are in a position to dictate what that content can be. Bad MPAA!
http://www.netcraft.com/whats/?host=www.dvdcca.org
damn I can't type :)
My thoughts on Independence Day and the computer virus are that the whole computer industry was heavily driven forward by this alien technology and that there is a pretty good reason for being able to sort of interface with it.
Admittedly it's still a load of hogwash.
A planet where apes evolved from men? Long live the apes.
No, they used it to make the biggest grossing movie, and THEN called it stealing ;)
Open Source. Closed Minds. We are Slashdot.
I'm suprised that they aren't scared for their lives. Don't they know that Manson^H^H^H^H^H^H Linus and his cult following will kill Hollywood people that stand in the way of world domination, fast?
Actually, since I started using "Open Source" or "Free Software" is the first time I've even fully complied with the licensing of the software. If anything, I am now not a software pirate. I don't have multiple copies of DOS or Windows running at home when I only have one license. Instead I have multiple copies of Linux and FreeBSD, and full permission to run it and give it to my friends.
Wait, that sucks. I feel guilty. I'm starting a web site to take donations just like paylars.com. I want make sure that I don't destroy the current music industry fat cats and I send them money for all the artists that let me buy music directly from them without the RIAA middlemen.
the best way to prove an idiot wrong is to let them talk.
adrien cater
boring.ch
Point and Grunt
I've thought about that one a bit. It ocurred to me that they already had an alien computer to study. They did say that none of the gadgets in it worked until the aliens showed back up, but maybe they just meant things like force fields and drive system. If they'd been studying a working alien computer for decades, they might have discovered security holes. In which case it's not all that improbable that they could interface a human computer with the alien computer. As for the aliens lousy overall security, there probably isn't a whole lot of dissent in the telepathic alien society. As a result of no-one ever trying to break into the computer system, there probably wasn't any real security to speak of, nor was there any reason to change the security in the decades since the small ship crashed. It might have been unthinkable to the aliens that any being from the planets they attacked could ever reach one of their motherships.
Obviously the Macintosh was used as part of a product placement deal. That's probably why many of us attack that detail so sharply. There are much better things to nit-pick about in that movie. For example, why would aliens with an enourmous ship already in orbit need to hi-jack primitive human sattelites to time their attack? Why would they send massive ships from orbit to the ground to destroy cities? Human beings can already destroy cities from space, and we can do it a lot faster than those ships were managing. Possibly the aliens had some way of storing a large portion of the energy released when dropping those ships in order to raise them again later, but the amount of energy required to put one of those things into orbit is probably easily greater than the amount it would take technologically advanced aliens to destroy every city on the planet. For that matter, those alien ships probably contained more metal and other resources than human beings have managed to mine in their entire history. What resources were those aliens going to consume like locusts? Wouldn't mining asteroids be more profitable? What's so special about earth? Also, how could one fighter pilot manage to punch out an alien in an armored organic suit when that alien was capable of killing a room full of people without the armor? Well, maybe the alien was really hurt by the crash, healed, and then used its telepathic abilities to kill all those people.
Anyway, my point is just that the computer thing wasn't really all that farfetched if certain circumstances which weren't actually explored in the movie are true. Also, Hollywood doesn't just get confused about computers. Anything technological, scientific or medical also seems to give them a lot of trouble.
Thanks in no small part to Open Source.
No, it was a pretty small part. Open source had nothing to do with the making of Titanic, no matter how much you would like to think it did. No movie, not the Matrix, not Titanic, not anything has been helped a great deal by open source. Wow, they used Linux... big crap. And if Linux didn't exist, they would have used NT but the movie would still be made.
Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
I haven't seen a major motion picture (other than what comes on HBO, etc. which is not paid for in this household by me) in three years, well before all this shit started. So I'd say that my position is pretty cemented.
_______
Scott Jones
Newscast Director / ABC19 WKPT
FC Closer
Count me in!
Fawking Trolls!
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." - Jed Babbin
I think there's a difference between posting a story which you know will make people angry, and inflaming a story so as to make people MORE angry. I think this is the first. News about the DVD-CCA trial is important; paying attention to the propaganda of the movie industry is important; if seeing what other people have to say about you makes you angry, well... maybe you ought to take it up with them.
--
Michael Sims-michael at slashdot.org
CHRISTIANS!!!
03/28/2000 - Hackers' Socialistic Leanings Could Stop Hack Removal The settlement in the Cyber Patrol case reported yesterday is in danger since it was learned that the hackers who created the "cphack" virus are part of a neo-Socialistic cult that renounces individual ownership of software. In the terms of the settlement, Microsystems Software Inc. (makers of Cyber Patrol and a subsidiary of Mattel Corp.) had been promised that they would be given all copyrights to the hacking virus. They had hoped to use the copyright ownership as a leverage to force websites mirroring the hacking virus to remove it. However, it turns out that the hackers had given away their ownership of the virus to "the people" and thus are not legally able to transfer ownership to Microsystems. The hackers are members of a cult based in Finland called The Free Source that, among other things, practices communal ownership of software. Its members release their software under something called the Glorious People's License (or GPL) which basically states that no one can own the software or put restrictions on copying it. "The Free Source has been recruiting on line for years now," says Ted Phillips, an expert on modern cults, "Their membership probably numbers in the thousands, although it is difficult to tell. They often work by enticing teens and young adults with the promise of free software and beer, before they start encouraging them to read parable-laced screeds that further indoctrinate them into the cult. They have been relatively harmless in the past, but now that they seem to be trying to destroy parents' abilities to protect their children it is clear that they are a danger to our society."
My dad told me when i was four that if i could lick the bottom of my yogurt container I'd never have problems getting chicks -- fuckin' liar!
bemis
telnet 80
"Open Source" is too broad. However the "Stackable(R) Letter Tray" box sitting in front of me refers to a product with a very specific term...
We've all read about the first, second, and third foundation.
Admitedly it is just a book, but how much effect do *we* actually have compared to the will of the masses, who are quite happy to lap up whatever is served to them.
Word to the wise: I am talking about being able to predict the movemenet of a given percentage, not of an individual, cos well hey, that's what markeing is about.
And just for fun, are *we* right even, or are *they*
PS: drunk beyond your wildest dreams, ignore me :)
PPS:THey 0wn3 y0u (full stop)
~ppppppppö
We never had tv for ages (well ok about 3 years) living in a valley and all that and we did indeed make our own entertainment, and it was well funky.
Then we bought a video and so the end began, first we watched HK movies because the morality we could understand, and the action was better than anything we had ever seen (except of course old uncle albert, he ate pufferfish, and boy did he bounce, ride em cowboy!!), then when they ran out (there is a limited supply in the UK) we were forced to watch old hollywood flicks, Rambo and such.
This was the end of the beginning.
Nowadays we are just another family statistic, they call us and I try to get them to go away, BUT THEY NO MORE ABOUT ME THAN I DO, and well, my clothes are whiter these days so I guess I am better off....
PS Note to moderator type ppl, this is not a 'troll' I'm just having fun, and trying to get to 50 to verify peoples claims that things turn weird then, I mean I already went over 26, had god knows how many first posts, any mod you want to mention I have had it, what more is left...
{Coquetish look}, my ideal is also to end world hunger, institute a realistic world government that won't favour the needy over those that have and to reverse the destruction of our rainforest.
Heineken, damn it's good!
umm whilst still bieng rather bad...
OK I AM SORRY.
~ppppppppö
Hmmm, the thread includes the topics "The Net" and "hacking", and out of nowhere comes some Nethack humor. Subliminal influence? :)
At least, I know if a bunch of Hollywood lawyers called a press conference to accuse freakin' IBM of actively encouraging criminal activity, seismographs on the other side of the planet would be able to detect the rumbling herd of bulk-cloned attorneys pouring from the sluice gates of the vast monolith that is Big Blue. I'm getting images of blue-flannel suit clad lawyers being shot out of torpedo tubes.
----
----
Am I the only one who thinks Microsoft is a misnomer? Perhaps Macrosoft would be a better fit?
The laws were created to make sure that someone could profit from a creation, and create more. Not to sit on their ass and think, I made one good thing, and now I can be supported for the rest of time.
Almost has to make you wonder...The last extention law was named after a famous hollywood congresscritter, that died before the law was passed...Wonder if someone knew that it wasn't going to pass and...Then since the law was named after him, and everyone felt bad that he died, so they passed it for him.
--Ben
'What Dreams May Come' was one of those other movies 3d rendered using Linux systems. I don't care what system they used to make that film - even if they'd done it on paid-for NT machines, that movie is still a crime.
insignificant sig
Absolutely true, and he was supported as a dictator by the United States - in fact, by the CIA under George Bush, the same president who ousted him - for many years. History shows that the US doesn't much care whether a leader that our government dislikes got there legitimately or not. When the US was worried about communism and guaranteed access to the Canal, the plight of the Panamanian people was but an inconvenience.
But this is totally irrelevent to my point, which is that US courts don't give much of a damn about juridstiction.
"It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
It's not every day I read a comment to a serious affront to the open source movement, ie "reality", where the comment mentions a fictional organization from a comic book house, ie "not reality in a way shape or form". Then again, I guess that's why I read /.
>of course... everyone knows that alien computers are all i386 compatible.
I'm surprised the DOJ failed to note this far-reaching extent of the Wintel monopoly.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Every revolutionary has his (or her) skeptic.
This case in question was the following: a large, commercial corporation ("Closed Corp") sued a large group of mostly anonymous Open Source developers and users ("Open Sesame") for building and advocating a GUI that purportedly violated patents of said corporation (i.e. MSFT sues KDE).
Actual briefs were researched and published and a mock court trial took place in October of 1999. The surprises in the verdict included jurisdiction over named defendants, regardless of country of origin.
More information can be found at the program web site.
Joseph R. Kiniry
http://www.cs.caltech.edu/~kiniry/
California Institute of Technology
Joseph R. Kiniry
http://kind.ucd.ie/~kiniry/
Lecturer
UCD School of Computer Science and Informatics
I wouldn't say that we don't care about school shoot-outs and gang warfare. It's just that lawyers aren't too good at handling those problems.
We don't like to do solve problems that can't be solved with lawyers. Not profitable.
From the plaintiff's brief:
"Rather, under the effects test, a defendant's actions constitute 'purposeful availment' so long as those actions are (1) intentional actions (2) expressly aimed at the forum state (3) causing harm which is suffered -- and which the defendant knows or reasonably should have 13 known is likely to be suffered "
I don't see how they can claim that DeCSS was "expressly aimed" at California. Because the 'aim' is to enable free DVD decoding, and that decoding can take place in any state, it doesn't seem to me that any state can claim that DeCSS was 'aim'ed at it.
All of their arguments that DeCSS was aimed at california seem to be of the form: 'Industry A is in California, and we think Industry A is harmed by DeCSS. Thus, DeCSS must be expressly aimed at California.'
Hopefully the Judge knows logic gaps when he sees them. =)
IANAL.
"Pavlovich knew DeCSS was developed by reverse engineering (Pavlovich Aug. Depo., pp. 32-33) and that such reverse engineering is illegal (LiVid posting, October 1, 1999, attached as Exhibit C to 23 Shapiro Decl.);"
Chris Hagar
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson
NetCraft: "www.dvdcca.org is running Apache/1.3.3 (Unix) PHP/3.0.5 on BSD/OS"
Chris Hagar
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson
Hollywood is actually full of liberals.
We may be witnessing them being torn between their liberalism and their desire to make a buck.
Trust me, they're not conflicted. Sure, Hollywood *actors* are mostly fans of Bill and Hillary. But for some reason, perhaps related to the fact that they're rich as hell, they tend to care more about the environment, animal rights, and so forth, than actively helping the underclass.
And how many actors do you think have ever heard of DeCSS? (Maybe if we could get a few actors to speak out against the MPAA, like the musicians against the record companies, studios might take notice, but don't count on it.)
It's irrelevant, anyway, since the studios are the ones pursuing the legal action rather than the liberal actors, and there is no politics when it comes to making money.
Never bang your own head, use the head of the person causing the frustration...
Intolerant people should be shot.
Sig, you don't really believe that the world's hacker community is going to rise up and overthrow the corporate rulers do you? I mean come on, most people aren't really all that concerned about this, and the sort of thing you're talking about (well, implying about really) is akin to a full scale revolt. Most people aren't looking to get arrested and/or shot at over IP abuses...
Intolerant people should be shot.
Come on, that's not a real movie; they didn't even *have* computers when they made that one! ::ducks::
I didn't know that, but still- as far as recent movies go, Titanic has been the most wildly popular in our time.
Were you on the crew? Did you manage special effects? Did you even click on the link? Come on, at least have something to back yourself up with. Cite something, link to something, quote something- but don't go making empty accusations just because you don't agree.
Jon Johansen (I think that was his name) actually DID do the reverse engineering in europe. Norway to be a bit more precise...
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
Or at the very least, an after school movie of the week...
...starring Britney Spears, featuring N'Sync...
"I will gladly pay you today, sir, and eat up
Sacred cows make the best burgers.
just look at the wonderful film "The Net" and you'll see that they obviously have done their homework.
SPOOOOOOOOOON???
"I will gladly pay you today, sir, and eat up
Sacred cows make the best burgers.
This is a copy of an email I sent to jon@eruditum.org - who runs the Linux Myth Dispeller... I wrote this to clarify Linux's role in Titanic.
:)
---------------------
I'm as much of a Linux fan as the next guy but there are a couple of points I wanted to clarify.
In section "4.9 Linux is not a technology leader, it is just playing "catch up". " You say that Linux was running on 100 Alpha's running around the clock for several months...
This is partially true.
1> Actually it was closer to 125 systems... but who's counting.
2> They were in Linux for only 2/3 of the total rendering time... the rest of the time they were in NT. You see only the tools for rendering the CG water (Arete) and their compositing tools (Nuke) have render engines compiled for Linux. (Both of which were ported over from Irix)
For shots of the ship itself, they had to switch back to NT as the ship was rendered in Lightwave... Newtek isn't likely to make a renderer for Linux.
In addition, both Arete and Nuke are not open source apps... The company that did the Linux port of the Arete renderer did it themselves... and neither Nuke nor it's source code will be seen by the outside world.. It's Digital Domains in house compositing tool.
I don't know about the rest of you but I have about had it with the MPAA, RIAA and the like thinking they own the fscking world! And think that just because the have the money and power laywers they can push eveyone around by THIER rules.
I think it is HIGH time a large group of individuals try to find some backing (laywers,money) and bring a damn big lawsuit aginst the MPAA and RIAA for say price fixing or something that could hit them hard in the media (except that the media is as liberal as these two groups).
I am sure some how it can be proven that there is say price fixing going on. especially with the reduced cost of manufacutring CD's. I know everyone hates government involvement but in this case it might help. Anti-Trust laws and the like might be a way to put the fear of god into these fscking groups.
Maybe organize some public CD buring, or DVD/VHS burnings to show outrage at the actions of these organizations. I know this would be an expensive effort but it would DEFFINATELY bring some major attention to things.
I am just sick of having the feeling that I/we can't do a damn thing to these corporate giants. Writing and calling congressmen/women doesn't do a damn bit of good. Who do you think dumps tons of cash into lobyists and into their campaign funds?
If anyone here really thinks that writing and calling their congresspeople does any good is in a dreamworld - wake up and smell the coffee!
Actions speak louder than words - organize public protests outside of movie theaters, outside of record stores etc.. We really need some BIG media attention to get OUR view out. We need to get John Q' Public to think with those pea brains of theirs - not just regurgitate the garbage that is fed to them by these big corporate giants.
Stop the Madness!!! --> take our fight to the streets!
The Truth is a Virus!!!
"This song is about eating meat. [...] Some of you vegetarians might be wondering why you should have to listen to a song about not eating meat. Don't just sit there with the attitude 'I'm not a meateater, I'm OK' go out and convince a meateater to give it up, there's plenty of fucking reasons!"
-Citizen Fish
s/eat.* meat/getting screwed by hollywood/
you have an answer.
My guess(only) is that they are already paid members Directly or Indirectly to the DVD Consort'.
In addition those contracts will state that Member Companies or their Parents may not make any statement(on DVD subjects).
I would put money on never seeing a single press release on the subject by any of the Majors. They need DVD Drives to sell boxes and will not risk any slowdowns in DVD-Drive supply.
And well you should be...
If they(MPAA) tell Fed + Ont & BC, no more productions in Canada until we Sign International Agreement that all Non-Authorized(read OS,FS,FAIB) programming of Media Based Software will be criminal offence.
Paul Martin would trample his grandmother and the Bugblatter beast in his haste to sign it.
Sad, But true.
Ignorance
- *Normality Is The Root of All Evil*
Would everyone who feels that the MPAA is in the wrong go to www.eff.org and click the Support DvD legal fund link and at lest donate some money. Lets see who can donate the most :) I put in 50.00. If everyone does this then eff can hire more lawyers.
Hey! I am an extremist. The middle of the road is for muddle-headed know-nothings. California has a concentration of both problems and good stuff largely simply because it has a 10th of the total population of the US in a lot less than a 10th of the area. The density leads to a bit more intensity. Do you have a problem with that? North Dakota IS boring. Vermont, though, is a pretty cool place. A bit eccentric but we Californians sort of like that.
I was actually trying to get some further information on it for a legal disclaimer on a poster for my local LUG - eg
"Linux is a registered trademark of Linux Torvalds. Open Source is a trademark of the Open Source Initiative. All other trademarks are the property of their respective organizations.".
That's what I settled on. Is it correct? Does the OSI hold the Open Source trademark? Is it rgistered or not?
Thanks for the advice,
Mike
Based on their website at http://www.weil.com/weil/
You can find loads of peoples emails to send complaints to. You could probably even extrapolate the author's email address by looking at their email addy structure.
Tell them how misguided they are.
Vulgrin the MAD
I sig, therefore I am.
Umm, how exactly is Microsoft in any way involved with open source (other than competing with it, of course), let alone "at the forefront of the open source movement"?
The're not, but I bet you can find a press release where they say they are.
-- That which does not kill us has made its last mistake.
What!?! No role for Natalie Portman? This is Slashdot Sacrilige!
I'm petrified with horror at the thought.
I'll just go and pour... well, you know the rest.
Just having fun too.
DB
Then all we would need to crack DVDs would be a some form of stenography tool.
Or steganography?
Wherever there's a will, there's a motorway.
I have tried to explain the situation to as many non-tech people as I can. And most of them get it (though are not quite as outraged as me). You have to focus on things that concern them such as the fact that they are not BUYING DVD's... but merely buying a liscense to view them in a way that the MPAA sees fit. That one usually gets them (if they even own a DVD player).
Just read something the other day, seems that Lord of the Rings is also being rendered under Linux... seems that $15,000 Linux boxes do the work "more than twice as fast" as $40,000 SGI Octane boxes running IRIX.
Well, let's see....
Mr. Hicks, thank you for your testimony...
:)
life is a canvas/and the paint is hope and promise/the world is ours/no one can ever take it from us.
Can you please quote your source for this statistic? I find it a little difficult to believe. Thanks.
Point taken, although I still believe that rate is a bit high. The USDoJ website states
But I'm going to have to agree with you that incarceration rates are ludicrous. I found this table (also from the USDoJ website) to be particularly chilling.
HEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAA
I wanna see some of the more "portly" hackers I know on sk8boards.Actually it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to put their fat asses on blades about 3 times a week.(I should talk,I'm a tank)
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Excellent point! Hope the lawyers for the good guys are taking notes - this one feels like something a judge or jury could understand.
mt
Who would know how to file a friend of the court brief to correct some of this BS? Would anyone else be interested in signing on to an open letter to the court? (And would that even be meaningful?)
LibBT: BitTorrent for C - small - fast - clean (Now Versio
Specifically, defendant Pavlovich, by his own admission, founded and operated a web site located at the URL: "livid.on.openprojects.net. "2 A key purpose of this web site was to aid in the development of an unlicensed, "open source" system for DVD playback and copying. LiVid is dedicated to the idea that all computer source code should be "open," even if that means stealing and disseminating protected intellectual property.
gee, i just went to the livid site, and it looked like it was about linux video or something, not about "stealing and disseminating protected intellectual property"... hmm...
if thinking the open-source movement a good idea is a crime, then I am gladly a criminal.
damn... this whole thing is really gonna bite the movie industry on the ass. you can't stop evolution.
Stealing?? Was something stolen? Is something missing from DVD CCA's building?
Damn straight, they distribute the css code with every dvd.. its not like they had to break into their office building in order to get it.
Are they still pushing this DeCSS = priate tool?
Correct me if I am wrong, but I dont think OMS (ala Livid) uses DeCSS to play the DVDs. (could somebody clear this up?)
I think this "DeCSS is used for pirating" crap has gone on long enough. I dont think they realizes there are easier and more superior ways of pirating DVDs. When are they going to learn that? I hate this ignorant CEOs and lawyers that can tell their head from their ass. All they can speak is corporate greed, we on the other hand speak "real life". We see things for the way they are, and not from the perspective of corparate ass fucking^H^H^H^H^H^H^H pick pocketing nazi bastards. My pilosophy is "If we can crack it, they should have built it better" What gives them the right to sue anyone for defeating (or even fucking linking to it) their incompetant encryption method??? Its their own fault, they fucked up, and they are trying to sue the open source community? All I can say is fuck THAT! #End Rant
Buying a Dell computer is equivalent to dropping the soap in a prison shower.
sorry about my spelling. I never read over my posts
Buying a Dell computer is equivalent to dropping the soap in a prison shower.
They are also running BSDi as their OS, which is made by the same people who make FreeBSD and Slackware. BSDi is not open source, but FreeBSD and Slackware are. They are, in fact, supporting open source by providing revenue to an open source company!
I know this is not as good as your example but its
another display of irony by these Hollywood morons.
Buying a Dell computer is equivalent to dropping the soap in a prison shower.
Nevermind, BSDi is the company... BSD/OS is the OS. I guess I am also a little late on my post submission as well :(
Buying a Dell computer is equivalent to dropping the soap in a prison shower.
It's not wrong, or illegal, or theft, for that matter. It's like suing people who make blank cassettes, accusing them of facilitating video piracy, or the companies that made it so easy to just plug a couple of jacks into the back of a couple of videos to rip off commercial videos for years before the big bad corporate people found out how to make it harder
The good thing that has come out of this is that a lot more people are aware of DeCSS than could possibly have been made aware through the obvious bunch of rag tags that the open source community is being portrayed as could possibly hope for. All that has been achieved by those who pursued this pathetic and expensive lawsuit is that more people are going to look for it, and since they can't stop people in a variety of non US-affiliated countries posting it up on servers around the globe, people are going to find it, use it, and probably a lot more people are going to be able to pirate DVDs than would have tried to in the first place.
Congratulations on your victory, RIAA, may you wallow in peace.
PLEASE! Please, somebody help the DVD CCA before it's too late...... tell them that this is NOT A PISSING CONTEST!!!
-----
Our treaty with Panama that allowed the US to build the Panama Canal and essentially have soverignity over a strip of land that cuts the country in two, also says that the US can intervene in Panama in case of "national security" issues. Bush just extended the meaning a little. Either way, we have no such treaty with Serbia, and if we wanted to, we could storm the beaches of Guam because they also are a protectorate.
I imagine that some publisher back in the 19th century said almost the same thing regarding libraries. Which then went on to become one of the publishers steadiest and most reliable customers.
One of the little noted side effects of the internet's rise has been the squeeze it's put on libraries (both in the US and elsewhere).
Libraries have been changing rapidly in the face of increased financial stress in the last few years. There is the pressure to keep up with technology ($20,000 for a MS certified solution :p) and there is budget pressure from parent governments as well.
This has unfortunately led to changes in the way they serve their patrons. For instance my local library will gladly rent you a recent bestseller for $0.50 a day, now you can wait till it shows up in the general circulation stacks but this can take some time. They have also begun charging for InterLibraryLoan materials as have most of the academic libraries in the region.
So What Does this have to do with DVDCCA?
Well what's happening with libraries is only one of many signs of the erosion of intellectual freedom in modern life, universities beholden to megacorps, elementary schools brought to you by (flavored-sugar-water inc.) etc. Is a teacher who stands to vest in a company based on what he's teaching going to tell you about the downside? Is a library under pressure from a major donor going to aquire the muckraking corporate history?
The stakes are higher than you think!
If Pavlovich and friends are crushed, if Kaplan's decision stands, we will all be much worse off than when we started.
..open source is very probably already linked to "pirating" and the like. The concept of what really goes on with the Web and the open source movement is so alien to people caught up in the material world.
"Why would you *give* something away you spent weeks and months on?"
That was a question someone asked me. I mean, working and not getting paid for it just doesn't happen in the current world. (Hell, I bet my son will force me to pay him $30 to mow the lawn instead of donating it to the family charity!)
Oh well.
-- Talonius
My reality check bounced.
(sorry, but I just love gratuitous quotes)
"If I removed everything here that I thought was pointless, there would be like two messages here."
woxy.com - Bam! The Future of Rock and Roll
Course, it flopped at the box office and got almost universally bad reviews. Looks like we're stuck with video game Gibson-ripoff "hacking" scenes at least for the time being.
"If I removed everything here that I thought was pointless, there would be like two messages here."
woxy.com - Bam! The Future of Rock and Roll
There are also a few similar OpenGL file managers for Linux here:
User Of Open Source : Your a Crook
Leading Patriot in US revolution : Your an Australian
Submarine Doing some Daring Shit in WW2 : IT's american
See A Pattern?
I wonder if they ever passed the SAT analogies section?
Can anyone think of any other classic Hollywood analogies?
Oblisk
I read it and can't belive it. I hope this judge isn't an idiot. Cause that is what it would take to read that and think for even a second that they were doing anything but grasping for straws. Trying to say anything do anything to get the percieved threat out of the way.
Regarding that one line, it seems like there are only a few possibilities here. The two most obvious to us non-lawyer types are that the authors of the memorandum actually don't know what "open source" means, or they're trying to mislead someone. But is it possibly just a lawyerly discourse thing, not to be taken seriously?
The rest of the document contains some mildly interesting stuff, including a note that "such reverse engineering is illegal." Is this true? My understanding from reading summaries of the DMCA (again, not a lawyer) is that reverse engineering is specifically permitted. But I also thought that DeCSS was built via means that are not well-described as reverse engineering. Are they just using the phrase in a different sense than the DMCA sense?
Lastly, I couldn't read this document without giving more thought to whether or not DeCSS facilitates "piracy." Although a lot of people have pointed out that cracking CSS is not the most straightforward way to copy DVDs, it seems like DeCSS can still be said to facilitate copying movies for distribution. If I have a computer with a DVD player and a fast internet connection, and I don't feel like doing a lot of hacking, it seems like the path of least resistance. But what's the issue here? Lots of things that aren't illegal facilitate things that are (e.g., guns, computers, ziploc(tm) bags). How is it relevant that DeCSS can be used for nefarious purposes? (I know this keeps coming up, but I still have no idea where they're going with this.)
Shall we consider standing on the sidewalks before Blockbuster Video with appropriate signs and, of course, DeCSS T shirts?
I am seriously contemplating such an action next Friday.
Ed Craig "Who cares what you think?" George W. Bush, 4th of July 2001
Mmmmm.... Perjury charges...
Well, what about getting every major company that's recently announced an open-source project of some kind to contribute to the defense? After all, they're part of the "Open Source movement" too. And I'm sure that a bunch of major computer companies suddenly standing up to the MPAA and saying "we don't think so!" would add quite a lot of legitimacy to our side of this case, just like the recent filing by Yahoo! and other ISPs will help the Napster case.
-RickHunter
Seeing as the MPAA have decided that we are all a bunch of criminal zealots for deciding to spend our time and resources writing software and then giving it away, can't the Apache Foundation change their licence to prohibit the MPAA from using Apache on their servers? Then they can see the joys of Free software in it's proper light. This stuff isn't just written so that there can be free software. It's written so that there can be BETTER software.
Ah screw it... What do hollywood know about quality?
/* Wayne Pascoe
I read the verdict that the judge wrote, and the impression I got was that the main DMCA violation was _not_ the creating of DeCSS by reverse-engineering, but that once it had been created, it became a 'device for circumventing a technological measure...', and that it was the _trafficking_ of that device (i.e. making it available for download & linking to it) that was the real violation against the DMCA.
The fact that CSS is or is not a trade secret is essentially irrelevant. The fact that no-one has been shown to have used DeCSS for piracy is essentially irrelevant.
DeCSS is a device that was created to circumvent a technological _access_control_ mechanism. The fact that it was made for non-copyright-infringing fair use purposes doesn't matter. It falls into a category of devices that the DMCA outlaws the trafficking of.
The DMCA just sucks ass is all.
Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
"The problem is we're so dependent on Hollywood for our entertainment that it won't work - how many of us will give up seeing the next Star Wars movie? Really, how many?"
/. that aren't.
Me.
"We're so dependent"? You might be. Millions of sheep out there might be. There are a number of people here on
Don't think I'm not bothered about SWII. I am. I just made a decision as of about 6 months ago not to see MPAA-produced movies ever again. (Although I do still watch my old VHS collection - they already have that money and there's nothing I can do about it)
You don't like what they're selling? Or the way they're selling it? Don't buy it. Simple as that.
Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
Everything on my PC was free of charge, and is 100% legal
One will be quick to see that I did not say I don't use Napster...
So that means that you either use Napster only to transmit public-domain files, or files which you may transmit under Fair Use, or that you don't store your MP3s on your PC.... Which is it? Because if it's neither, then your self-righteous rant is pretty much worthless.
- In Capitalist America, law violates YOU!
If it weren't for the cartoon channels, I doubt I'd end up watching any TV at all.
I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
Given that Lightwave originally started life on Amiga's, and was ported to Windows and other commercial *nix's (IRIX is one), it isn't outside the realms of possibility that Lightwave could be ported to Linux. In fact, i could see it becoming a reality Real Soon Now(tm), given that Linux and BSD are being used for render farms.
Syllable : It's an Operating System
Stupid Hollywood. It's been quite a while since I've gone to bed whilst accused of being a criminal.
With a statement that inflammatory, this may be one of the most busy Slashdot stories ever. Realizing this, I'm going to post now, because when I come back tomorrow to say something coherent, anything I say will have been said 300 times.
'Tis a pity this couldn't have been posted on a weekday. It'd probably make it to #2 or #3 in the HoF if it were.
26th?
---------///----------
All generalizations are false.
--
I like to watch.
Corporations do not give anybody the privilege of not being accountable for their actions. If I work for a corporation, and (say) run over somebody with the corporation's car while on corporate business, I can be personally sued (as can the corporation). The people that are protected are the shareholders. When you buy stock in a corporation, you stand to lose (potentially) whatever you invested, but you don't risk being personally liable for the corporation's debts.
But even Great Britain is worse... if you don't think constant video surveillance on all of its citizens counts, then I don't think I understand your use of the word.
I live in Britain, but I can't work out where they've hidden all those cameras... Constant surveillance on everyone in Britain!!! Damn, they're watching me type these very words... got to go.
I am actually really seriously considering standing in an Irish election for 1 primary reason, to rip into all things farcical in Irish law. The prime example being the only way you can get your name as a domain name in Ireland (myname.ie) is to either A add a two (or more) digit number to the end of it OR be standing in the next election (this was brought in by the politicians themselves when some pornsters saw the .com domains they hadn't bothered to claim such as http://TheTaoiseach.com == ThePresident.com for Ireland! and bertieaherne.com which is his real name! Guess what my first election purchase will be :-) /. members (for example) stood in elections worldwide every couple of years, how long before we at least manage to get some decent braodband media coverage.
My question is would anyone be interested in a "Slashdot party" or my other favourite is "The GNU Party". I'm not talking about people who would vote for me or even live in the same country, but simply that if 100
There certainly seems to be a popular opinion on slashdot on a huge range of issues ('Fair Use','Cryptographic Restrictions', 'Software Patents', 'Reverse Engineering'), could we draw a manifesto from these to bombard the world with (BTW I would personally delight in helping throw idiot politicians out far more than getting in myself, and would really want to raise public awareness through humour far more than through dull education).
So what say you? We are a form of lobby (to a select subset of Internet users), how about we take it to the next level.
Also, I would happily support someone else better wuited to stand (even if it does mean sacrificing my domain name);
The Net party will happen, so who is going to be there first?
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
Bzzt, wrong, it's not keeping it, it's distributing it. You are the one with the legal problem, for running that piece of paper through the Xerox(tm) machine. Nobody who receives it has a problem unless they redistribute it.
-dB
"It if was easy to do, we'd find someone cheaper than you to do it."
One of the points they raise in the brief is that firing a gun across state lines is just as much against the law as if you fired gun within the state. I think their argument is that DeCSS was criminally harmful to businesses based in California, so, regardless of the location of the defendant, he must be tried in California.
Imagine if I blackmailed someone in Virginia from North Carolina. I'm still subject to criminal prosecution in Virginia, right?
-JTB
And big business is really REALLY upset about that.
-JTB
Anyone could have said the same thing about mp3s three years ago. But when the bandwidth for distribution becomes available (which it will, sooner or later), we'll have Napster for movies in a heartbeat.
-JTB
Oh, come off it, that's not true and you should know better than to think it is.
-JTB
I propose that members of the Open Source community bring a class action suit against the DVD-CCA for defamation...
If intelligent life is too complex to evolve on its own, who designed God?
The first three were definitely the best, but the total count for the series was 5 in-order books, plus two prequels. I've got all but the last in-series book now.
Asimov, and two foundations, at "opposite" ends of the galaxy...
However, I'm not sure where you're getting the third from. The "Galaxia" decision? Or was it something in "Foundation and Earth", which is out of print, and I haven't gotten my hands on again yet. (own the entire rest of the Foundation Series).
Really?p>
Last I checked, the pacific plate was going under the North Am plate, along the San Andreus. Damn it, now I have to go do some research.
I'm really looking forward for Northern Cal. to lose most of the people in Souther Cal. That will be nice. Just keep the central valley, Silicon Valley, and the Sierras(Tahoe). But if LA/Holleywood were to dissappear, I wouldn't shed a tear.
Damn it
Not only did I screw up my html, I was wrong.
But then so were you.
The plates are just sliding past each other. At some point, LA will be an island.
San Fran Bay Area
World map
Bad Mojo
I believe that the reasoning behind "stating" (and I use that term very loosely) that the defendants were advocates of piracy is to charaterise them more like defendants in a criminal trial rather than defendants in a civil suit, and thus trying to sway the opinion of the court (judge). I believe the wording, while intentional towards damaging the character of the defendants, not intended to be damaging to the rest of the Open Source/free software movement (doubt they intended on us reading it, actually). Let's put it this way, they want to convince a judge that the defendants should be held culpable for their actions regardless of their extra-state locales. The only way to do this is to characterise them as criminals and not as defendants in your common civil cases (you'd be surprised how stupid the average civil case is...makes The People's Court look serious).
Don't forget that the authors of this gem, "Defendant Pavlovich is a leader in the so-called 'open source' movement, which is dedicated to the proposition that material, copyrighted or not, should be made available over the Internet for free," were the lawyers at Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP.
If that's their understanding of the open source movement, you'll be well advised to send your tech related business elsewhere.
>>I'm not sure anything could be less entertaining than some of the junk that Hollywood pushes down our throats.
Well, maybe some of the crap RIAA pushes down our throats. I've stopped buying bad music. I download music now -- but I download legal music from start-ups who are still making music (rather than producing cash cows for RIAA) and distributing their stuff over the internet. Then I buy their stuff if I like it. Too bad there aren't more start-up movie-makers. Maybe we'd get some creativity instead of the endless stream of bad spin-offs, sequels, re-makes and copies.
Do not teach Confucius to write Characters
Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
If I had mod points, I'd mod you up :-)
As the famous Philosopher Ibid once said, "How did those Hollywood idiots make so much money that they can sue anybody who takes one of their stale peppermints?"
And his dog replied, "Indeed."
Do not teach Confucius to write Characters
Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
Matt
Actually, the 50's would have been the McCarthy commie 'witch' hunts, and teh 70's was the height of Cold War paranoia; CIA/KGB going at it, the Cuban Missile Crisis and all out nuclear war just around the corner, etc etc. So you're both right. Here's two candies. :-)
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
The people who shat out Phantom Menace are calling *us* thieves ??? Bone up on your Karl Marx, kids. There's NO WAY the affected industries will willingly give up that fat revenue pipe they've worked so hard to build. As one industry rep has already stated, there's *NOTHING* they won't do to stop anyone in their way. That means that they will invest enormous amounts of money and energies into throwing out your constitutional rights. They don't care. Remember: America has no political agenda. Capitalism is an economic practice, not a political philosophy. Democracy was a political philosophy that got shucked in the USA in favor of amorality and greed. You can fuck over anyone here as long as you can pay the lawyers.
Injured my ass!
(My immediate reaction to reading the statement)
The Original Celebrated Curiously Strong GHOST (mentha lemures)
Actually, the Feds just got the RIAA on that one. Price fixing. It was proven (I think, not sure; anyone else have an data on this?) that the consumers were gypped about sixteen billion dollars (once again, I'm not sure on the exact amount, but it's in that range).
The Original Celebrated Curiously Strong GHOST (mentha lemures)
*cough**microsoft**cough*
If you're not wasted, the day is.
- I just skimmed the brief, and it could probably be considered defamation on the FSF, lots of people like Linus, ESR, various people like Bob Young, even Tim O'Reilly . . . Basically, it accuses anyone who claims to be involved with the `open source' movement of supporting theft of intellectual property. This might be my non-legal mind misunderstanding what they were saying, but it's pretty damned blatant, as far as I'm concerned.
Maybe the defense will make a motion to request an apology from the plaintiffs for that opening statement. The best thing that could happen would be that the motion be denied; the plaintiffs (users of open source software themselves as the Apache web server on the DVD CCA site shows) would then be just as guilty as the defense.I/O Error G-17: Aborting Installation
Hasn't Judge Kaplan already ruled on this subject? While stopping just short of saying "open source", he did imply that we're all freeloaders with just about the same type of comments in his ruling. If I were a lawyer it would make sense to repeat those comments.
icqqm [ICQ:11952102]
After all, this is also an insult against these big, honorable companies. If I said "IBM is a supporter of crime" in the public, I am sure to get sued. But I do not think it is good for business to complain against the DVD-CCA...
"...what does Hollywood know about the computer industry?"
After rewatching "Hackers" and "The Net" my answer would be, "Absolutely nothing".
Warning! Keep Out of Eyes! Wash Out with Water! Don't Drink Soap! Dilute! Dilute!
DAMN YOU MODERATORS!!!
I posted this anonymously cause I figured it was too funky to post under my nick.
DAMN YOU ALL!!! WASTED KARMA!
-fp
One commits a tort against a victim but a crime is commited against the state. It is for this reason that criminal cases are styled R. v Foo (or, I believe, "the people" in the US) rather than Victim v Foo.
The question of whether breach of copyright should be criminal, OTOH, is another matter...
Nope - although the computer they used was an Apple notebook (PowerPC, IIRC), it purported to run Windows 95. I found ID4 a lot more believable when I realized that the aliens were really pissed-off Windows beta testers.
He wouldn't be much use though. After all he's only good with guilty people.
---
A friend of my family is a lawyer for Parmount, and this is true. Her view of the open source movement was a bunch of geeks who felt that anything and everything digital should be free, no matter who made it.
Ah, but the plot thickens. It turns out this corporate employed lawyer wrote part of the DMCA. In fact, from what I could tell the entire DMCA was written soley by MPAA employees. So now Corporations are passing laws... hmmmmm... time to put Ralph Nader on speed dial.
---
What exactly are the commercial possiblilities of Ovine Aviation?
Anything said in court is protected from libel/slander.
Nope. The blackmailee has to get to North Carolina on their own nickel to appear in court. Feh.
Slashdot's token middle-aged housewife
Well, it's true of a blackmailee in Kansas having to go to New York. Assuming her testimony is needed at all, of course.
Practical law isn't as pretty as theoretical. Sorry.
Slashdot's token middle-aged housewife
Dunno about that, but you could almost certainly get away with claiming that the CCA is an organization dedicated to the destruction of fair use rights and reducing anyone dependant on information to a state of effective serfdom.
--
There is no sin except stupidity -- Oscar Wilde
ADM. Exxon. Philip Morris. Anheuser-Busch. Hearst Paper. Dupont. RJ Reynolds. Abbott Labs. Mobil. Eli Lilly.
If hemp were legal, this is just a tiny fraction of the companies that would lose huge amounts of money. Not to mention the money they'd lose if the other currently-illegal drugs were legal.
Furthermore, the prison industry is a HUGE industry in the US. Between construction, supplies, maintenance, personnel, etc. and the vast amounts of near-free labor (check how many travel agencies use prison labor to book their flights--then think about whether you want to give your credit card number to the guy on the phone), billions of dollars are being made off the prison industry.
Then you've got the people supplying the ever-expanding police departments, the anti-drug "education" programs, the court system...
Don't tell me no one's getting rich off the drug war, that's a load of shit and you know it.
--
There is no sin except stupidity -- Oscar Wilde
Say what?! Umm, no. The thing in the DMCA about perjury is that infringement notices and counter-notices need to have a statement that it is undertaken under penalty of perjury to be valid, but that an infringement notice without that disclaimer still needs to be followed up on. The counter-notice is invalid without a disclaimer. How's that for fairness? :(
The perjury disclaimer in most legal filings is something that has been part of the system for a long time. The filing being referred to is not a notice of infringement, and the DMCA does not apply to it. The DMCA doesn't apply to this at all, and the MPAA is even directly involved in this lawsuit.
This is the DVDCCA suing based on trade-secret misappropriation.
Disclaimer: I am not a laywer.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
Their notion of economics is the golden rule, of course. "He who has the gold, makes the rules."
They can insult my integrity, they can steal my rights, they can buy off the whole damn world, but no way in hell will I stand idly by and let them compare me to Matthew Broderick.
Wishing I did more open source work so I could be more outraged...
My mom is not a Karma whore!
(Paranoid conspiracy rant ahead) Yes, but the DVD-CCA does not have the Department of Justice in its pocket. (/rant)
The Clinton court debacle is a lot like the OJ Simpson trial. It twisted a lot of legal things which would normally be iron clad, and no judge in his right mind would consider anything from them to be precedence for future decisions.
My mom is not a Karma whore!
> California long arm statue
http://isoc-ny.org
Don't forget, a large majority of Hollywood itself (including the corporations)
are liberal democrats.
It seems to me that the DVD CCA's comments go beyond ignorance to the realm of sheer bigotry. As I'm sure most slashdot readers know, the open source community is dedicated to sharing *their own* ideas and material, and believe that doing so results in greater freedom for developers and users, as well as better software.
The open source movement is not about so-called piracy. In fact, many OSS leaders, including Larry Wall and Linus, have come out as saying that the choice of wether copyrighted material she be redistributable should be up to the copyright holder. Sure, some open-sourcers (myself included) believe that copyrights are a bad idea and should be disobeyed in favor of complete freedom of information. But this is NOT a core tenant of the open-source movement, it is an opinion that I have formed seperately from my involvement with OSS.
This whole case is made worse by the fact that unlike Napster, DeCSS is not something that is explicitly a distribution method. DeCSS allows people to watch Movies, and possibly decrypt them and save them to their hard drives. DeCSS is functionally very similar to a VCR. It allows playback and recording, and has no built in copyright protection. In fact, DeCSS is harder to use for piracy, since DVD blanks cost more than the movies themselves (not to mention the enormous cost of drives), and the ammount of bandwidth required for internet distribution is obscene. On the other hand, I can make a VHS dub and pass it to my friend with little quality loss, and only a couple dollars investment.
Anonymous Luddite: "What do you think of the dehumanizing effects of the Internet?"
Andy Grove: "Not Much."
I, for one, hope this doesn't happen. I'd like to think that we'll reach a happy middle-ground. When the entertainment industry realizes that they can't continue to sell us crap anymore because we'll produce better stuff ourselves, they'll be forced to put out quality programs, or else they'll loose those precious dollars.
Besides, TV/radio/internet aren't the only things people have/do for entertainment. I don't think there is any real risk of politics, evil corporations, and the weather being the only things people have in common. We can go rock clmibing or caving or whatnot, and I assure you conversations centering around those kinds of activities are far more intresting than discussing what happned on Seinfeld the night before.
Problem is that the GPL currently gives them the right to use the older version of the licence, though I suppose the option of using the current one or any newer one could be taken out.
Of course we are only shooting ourselves in the foot, we want LINUX and other GPLed software to be used (even if by assholes).
subsolar
The law is not always the same as justice. But you Americans have the power - vote against the 2 corporate parties in November. Don't sit there bitching - give up half an hour of slashdot to go and vote for someone else - a decent turn out will at least send a message.
For the record, only oral statements can be referred to as slander. A written statement of a similar nature is properly referred to as libel.
Just thought I'd clarify that little point.
GORDOOM
"...the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do."
as kids. They (MPAA lawyers) see themselves as 'swashbucklers' defending against 'pirate' attacks.
/. that the sharks have it all wrong. They have yet to prove that ANY movies were copied using DeCSS. DeCSS allows Viewing! Trade secrets are trade secrets only if well protected by the owners. Reverse engineering is allowed, yada,yada, yada...
Defendant Pavlovich misappropriated DVD CCA's trade secrets knowing that such actions would adversely impact an array of substantial California business enterprises including the motion picture industry, the consumer electronics industry, and the computer industry. Such conduct has in fact injured the motion picture industry in California by making available material that allows copying of copyrighted motion pictures. Further, as alleged in the Complaint filed in this action, such conduct threatens the economic welfare of the more than 400 CSS licensees - companies that make the hardware and software enabling consumers to view digital images on DVDs. Of the 73 licensees which are located in California, 42 are located in Santa Clara County and an additional 17 are in other Bay Area locations. See Complaint, 53, attached as Exhibit D to the Shapiro Decl.
I don't think I have to tell anyone on
"Open code, in other words, can be a check on state power." -Lawrence Lessig
...what does Hollywood know about the computer industry?
Judging from the "look at me, I can upload a virus to an ALIEN computer system" drivel depicted in Independence Day, not much.
=================================
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
They know that you can disable a never-before-seen alien computer by uploading a virus from a Mac. What else do you need to know?
-Dave
On another note, I wonder how the poor schmuck that wrote CSS in the first place feels about this? Are you out there? Betcha all your programmer buddies don't talk to you anymore!!
Sean
While a LiViD/DeCSS combination could be used to pirate stuff, did anyone notice that there was no mention whatsoever of Linux at all...
// file: mice.h
#include "frickin_lasers.h"
Actually, I've been watching it for a while now, and taking note. It should be interesting. Of course, the right doesn't know what's left anymore, either. It seems that every century or so, right and left trade places...
BTW - I'm a conservative, and I think Free Software is great.
Be nice to your friends. If it weren't for them, you'd be a complete stranger.
with all this business surrounding this issue and the DMCA and seemingly inventing new laws and crimes where in fact the existing laws have become inappropriate, it should be a crime to be an ignoramous. i mean seriously, since when can people make accusations and worse yet laws on a subject that they obviously don't understand? where are the checks and balances? don't they have experts to give them advice or do they not care?
these morons charecterise that as criminal?
...
.. now is that illegal?
..
.. not some corporate republic
If i write a piece of software which is unique then that is MY Intellectual property. If i choose to give it away I can
The fact that we want all code to be open
Its like saying that people who think drugs should be legalized are drug addicts
I am still waiting for the day America becomes a free country
"At the time Pavlovich posted DeCSS on the Internet, he knew that DeCSS facilitates the pirating of DVDs (Pavlovich Aug. Depo., pp. 59- 2 60);"
"At the time Pavlovich posted DeCSS on the Internet, he knew that pirating DVDs is wrongful conduct (Pavlovich Aug. Depo., p. 71)."
Someone should sue auto makers because 'at the time the auto makers sold their cars, they knew that cars facilitated drive-by shootings', and 'at the time the auto makers sold their cars, they knew that drive-by shootings are wrongful conduct'.
DeCSS only really has two applications. The first is to implement a DVD-on-Linux tool, something that did not exist at the time. The second is to pirate DVDs. Likewise, there are two arguments against DeCSS; the first is that it cheats DVD CCA out of their fair licensing fees for the technology. Does anybody have information on what they're charging to let somebody develop a legitimate, licensed equivalent of DeCSS for Linux? The other argument against DeCSS is that it should not be allowed because it would facilitate piracy.
Failing to prevent a tool's use in illegal situations does not mean the maker of a tool has broken the law. Moreso, the possibility of breaking the law with a tool is not sufficient reason to outlaw that tool's distribution, at least where legitimate uses of the tool exist.
Of course, this is the same industry that's been on the receiving end of other hysterical suits attempting to establish that music, television, and movies have lead to suicide or other unpleasant behavior. Look deeper. What does Hollywood the aggressor have in common with Hollywood the victim?
In both situations, a case was made by lawyers who pursue it simply because the case can be won, regardless whether the law is a good law or not. This is a nation where justice and victory in court are two different things. One is a pleasant but necessary fiction, the other is bought and sold. And I don't think we should rail against Hollywood for playing that game. If anything, we should rail against our lawmakers and our government for allowing the game to be played. Lawsuits like this will continue until the legal system is able to take the justice of a law into account as well as the correct application of that law in a case.
and forget "they made it accessible, etc" -or- "they knew it could be used for bad" (DeCSS: pirating vs. using to run DVDs on Linux)... what's next: chemistry classes are bad b/c they provide the background for bomb makers... don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, H'Wood!!
Because: using the "reasonable person" rule, if I post something that may not be legal in XXXX jurisdiction, but is legal in my jurisdiction, is the reasonable person really supposed to orchestrate a "blockage" or DoS of access rights to all the 'citizens' of all of the muni's that have outlawed what I have/know?... world wide?
I think not., or with the state of affairs, I hope not.
Specifically: MPAA: "DeCSS = copying machine", when it was created just for playing F*cking DVDs on Linux, and the the truth is that it codifies their regional shafting on DVD prices.
RIAA: "Napstar = bad for artists", first it was founded as a [legally protected] sharing tool, and second (thanks to person-2-person WORD OF MOUTH) makes the marketing machine of the RIAA devalued, not the artist.
Unfortunately, these first/bad impressions often stick, which is why I hope the FSF does something about it.
If she floats, she's a witch.
"a leader in the so-called 'open source' movement, which is dedicated to the proposition that material, copyrighted or not, should be made available over the Internet for free."
Is it not possible to counter-sue this moron for libel, since Open Source does in fact turn a profit, and many large corporations are releasing new software packages under the open source license?
His statement about 'Copyright or not' is ludicrous. Any lawyers wish to comment on the plausability of this, in turn take up the case, and give me a fair percentage of the winnings?
Ace
Does that mean we're all w4r3z d00dz? Are we all 5|<0rz! 31337 w4R3Z d00dZ!!!!##$$###$$!!! d00d ur l337!#$$##!!!##%!!!
The increasing legislation of the Internet within the US is really beginning to worry me. The (un)fact that anything I upload can be taken as a direct assault on anybody else in the world, or at least anybody in California, worries me a lot. If the Government over there doesn't wake up and actually THINK about the laws they are passing, serious damage could result.
This whole situation truly pisses me off.
At this point I am only expected to know the laws of my own country. If the NRA somehow lobbied to have legislation passed which made the defamation of guns and gun-holders a federal offense, could I really be jailed in the US for stating my own opinion?
The completely insane laws (DMCA, UCITA [sp?]) being passed over there in the last few years are prime examples of the ongoing abuse of justice which could now, it seems, burn me as well.
(PS. I'm tired, please excuse any logic/grammatical/stupid errors ^_-)
If everything folows it's proper course and history repeats itself, someone will now start writing articles about how clueless Hollywood is, but it will not affect the ruling comming down by judges that are just as clueless. someday, these people WILL look stupid, but the legal damage will have been done by then. Someone hire Jonny Cockrin (Cochrin Cockring.....whatever)
Dirty Pirate Hooker
Maybe do it the Starr way:
/. post an "Ask Slashdot" for signatures to the letter. Hopefully we would get over thousands as readers ask then submit their co-workers and friends as well as themselves. Print it all out in Large Type on thick paper, such that several boxes are needed to carry it all, then tell mainstream press that a truck is delivering the volumes of paper needed to contain the signatures of an open letter challenging the MPAA to "stop hiding behind court freedom from defamation and come into the public arena and say that!" and correcting the errors, etc.
Write the letter, have
So, when issues arise with the Internet (a bullet that can be fired from anywhere to anywhere), be they regarding censorship or DeCSS or whatever, jurisdiction isn't even an issue? And off-shore firms doing funny stuff (that I wouldn't advocate)? Automatically in the US's jurisdiction? Or, I guess, automatically in California's jurisdiction (the bullets are flying into every ISP in CA!)? I guess California can bring litigation against anyone in the world! (I guess we already knew California would try this eventually
Joe
(get my song- descramble)
This isn't a bad idea, but I would recommend that the letter demand a _PUBLIC_ apology.
Also, I don't want to speak for anyone, but it would be really nice to get the signatures of some of the leaders in the open source's ".com arena". I find it sad, but I imagine if they got a list with 10,000 or even 50,000 names of individuals they wouldn't give a damn. However, I think signatures from people in high places at VA Linux, SGI, Penguin Computing, companies that supply Hollywood with high powered Linux machines for post-production might cause them to think about the fact that they have damaged business relations with some of their key suppliers. Official stances from the Distro houses and other companies offering Open Source software and/or services would certainly help the cause as well.
Hollywood needs to get the message that napster is not what Open Source is all about. DeCSS is but, they apparently can't fathom the real reason why. Maybe if some one _enlightened_ them that they rely on open source software, havkers and companies to make their prescious movies, then they might start to listen. At least I hope so.
"The words of the prophets are written on the Slashdot walls."
I will host any serious effort to create a system to consolidate the efforts of multiple people to produce this type of media assault on eactivism.org for free. This is exactly the type of project that I want to promote in the "projects" section--one that unifies the community in self-defense. Please e-mail me at the address in my userinfo (minus the "[dontspam]" of course).
ByteMyCode.com: A Web 2.0 code sharing community.
"He controls the past controls the future and he who controls the present controls the past." Let's face it, media companies have a strong influence on the way that modern Americans perceive the world; the MPAA/RIAA do control the present and their portrayal of the OS community, accurate or not, will prove the basis for many people's opinions! We need propaganda of our own if we wish to compete.
ByteMyCode.com: A Web 2.0 code sharing community.
Don't you get the feeling that their lawyers have PR consultants whose full-time job is to figure out how to make the open-source community angry? The only part I haven't figured out is why they would want to...
According to netcraft it is Apache 1.3.3 on BSD/OS, so at least (for the moment) their OS is closed-source. Though given BSDI's recent moves, it's anyone's guess how long that will last. For more laughs, check out the whois record for dvdcca.net. And, no, I'm not going to spoil the suprise.
Since his death, his estate has licensed a few writers to publish a few more books as Foundation stories.
The mathematic model suggested in the beginning of Foundation was that you could not predict individual behavior, or even the behavior of a few thousand people, but once you are dealing with hundreds of billions of people (as you would be in a vast, interplanetary civilization), your deviation from statistical probability becomes less important, and you can start to make predictions. The theory fell apart midway through the second book, when a single individual (an unanticipated thought-control mutant known as "the mule") changed civilization in a way that could not have been expected... and f*ed the whole thing up. The next book and a half deals with the fallout.
I have purged the memory of all the books beyond the first three from my memory.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Asimov was right to say "no" no publishers all those years on a 4th Foundation book, and wrong to finally give in. The newer books all suck.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
This case has all the makings of a Hollywood blockbuster!
Or at the very least, an after school movie of the week...
J
At this point in time, it is perfectly legal to purchase CDs and make compilations from them for home use. I have bought a CD along with the right to *listen* to it, whether it is played from the original, or from a personal copy. I have the legal right to use it as *I* wish, as long as I don't break copyright. But in this case, even though I have purchased both the physical disk AND the right to play it, they get the ability to stipulate *how* I must and must not use it? How does this make sense?
Ten years after Communism ceased to be a threat, they found a new enemy. Us.
Arguing and re-arguing these facts and legal issues in many different jurisdictions ensures the waste of valuable judicial resources and risks the propagation of conflicting verdicts and court rulings. California, as plaintiff s primary place of business and as the site of the greatest injury, is undeniably the jurisdiction in which this case should be tried.
Plaintiff's assertion is, prima facie, specious and unreasonable.
Speciousity. In the case of a bullet fired into one state from another, it is reasonable to assume that there will be no substantive disagreement between potential jurisdictions as to the nature of the crime or the harm inflicted. In such cases, it is perfectly reasonable for 'long arm' jurisdiction to fall to fall to California, as we expect the California courts to act on substantively the same principles as any other Court.
Unreasonability In the case before the Court, there is more than substantive reason to believe that jurisdictions ourside the State of California might come to substantively different conclusions regarding the issues at stake here. Plaintiffs note that defendants in their action hail from jurisdictions as far away as Norway... and, in fact, the defendent from Norway received a national award for his work on the DeCSS code. It is reasonable to assume that a Norwegian court might well come to a different conclusion about the nature of these events than a California one. Moreover, if the plaintiffs were to prevail here, the Court will be forced into the absurd proposition that it may extend a jurisdiction over the sovereign state of Norway -- and over many more sovereign states -- to which those sovereign jurisdictions, following their own legal traditions and procedures, would never willingly submit.
Uniqueness of the case demands multiple jurisdiction. Where there exists substantive agreement between diverse people and jurisdictions over the nature of issues, infractions, and harms, it serves judicial efficiency to create a single forum in the jurisdiction that has bourne the brunt of the harm. Such a procedure is not appropriate to the current case. The ability of the internet to widely distribute information technologies and to create complex relationships between enitities in hitherto much more separate jurisdictions has created, and will doubtless continue to create, new situations and problems that will demand the attention of the world's courts and legislatures, and potentially significant change in legal procedure. Plaintiffs may not be allowed to end-run the legislative process. Plaintiffs, representing themselves as defenders of "the music industry," "the computer industry," and other parties "centered in the State of California," are attempting to use the singular jurisdiction of the State of California as the forum in which to resolve the world-wide effects of information technologies. It bears stating that the creation of these technologies has been, in fact, world-wide in scope, and the effects of the decision the Court is asked to make -- and its potential harms -- are equally global in reach. The Hon. Senator Orrin Hatch, addressing this "Industry" as part of Congressional investigations, has stated that he would take legislative action to expand the definition of free use should "the Industry" continue on its current path of litigation -- indicating that, in face, there exists substantive jurisdictional interest in these issues outside the scope of this court and the laws of the State of California.
Allowing plaintiffs to prevail in current motion would create an unreasonable precedent. If plaintiffs prevail, a multiplicity of similarly situated 'plaintiffs,' acting under the jurisdiction of the State of California, could raise the spectre of alleged unique and intangible 'harms' suffered in the internet era, in order then to bring a host of plaintiffs from conflicting jurisdictions across the world into the jurisdiction of the California Court. It is hard to image that the legislative framers of "long arm" jurisdiction intended it to extend this far beyond the simple example of a bullet shot from one state into another, extending, in effect, the reasonable jurisdiction of the State of California over clear harms inflicted in the State into a power of legal compulsion worldwide in scope.
I love how lawyers do this... equating shootings to something like this case.
Stealing?? Was something stolen? Is something missing from DVD CCA's building?
Are they still pushing this DeCSS = priate tool?
Someone should trade mark "Open Source" and sue these guys for defamation of mark.
Jurisdiction is dead. We are simply watching the corpse lurch around like a zombie that's taken the fatal arrow through the heart (or whatever kills zombies these days). The concept of jurisdiction came from a world where people had to drive around in horse-drawn carriages and it would take weeks or months to get to a courthouse in another state. That world is gone. In its place there is the internet, cheap airfare, and imperial courts that routinely apply US law to people and entities around the world, much less within the US. Don't be surprised to see the entire idea of jurisdiction collapse in the next ten years.
Furthermore, those same people who never heard of deCSS - and that you can run this on LINUX - a free operating system, this must surely make them think about spending $$$$ to M$ etc... WOW if this could actually snowball.... I think I should go home now - 8 hrs and thats the best that can come out of my head????
they need to take their problems to geneva and come up with a plan for the entire world, not just for single countries. Do you cut of a crazy mans hand and expect to cure him?? NO!m he is F*KnG CRAZY!!!, your just going to piss him off more...!!
..........call some one who cares..
He is completely right about jerisdiction, Britain can't sue a guy from Utah cause he posted harmfull slander against the Queen, which is illegal there, i believe(im american, i don't really know). Notice that americans aren't the only ones with a net presence, the net exists above nationality, there for someone in tiawan can do just as much on the web as an american, therefor jurisduction is justplain crap!!
they never played by the rules, they just had some low level respect of the system and the way things worked. let the rules slide today so you can use it tommarrow, save youself from being a hipocrit down the road when you sue for it.
Big business exists because people were smart at one point, now they just float by on other peoples accomplishments.
--the net is the borg, an overwelming force with the intelegence of an entire species behind it. 'open source sig, spread it if you like it'
Wouldn't that be Mac compatible?
___
__
Do ya feel happy-go-lucky, punk?
Open source doesn't make MPAA any money. Anything which does not make MPAA money should be outlawed and anyone doing those kinds of activity should be locked up!!
I've worked in IT for 12-13 years now, and one thing has not changed, the total helplessness of the end users of our products and services. Imagine though, if they (the corps) start sh*t with us, leaving them high and dry through strikes. They are at our mercy in the long run, why not make sure that they know it.
There's probably a gorilla enthusiast newsgroup going on at Gorillas in the Mist saying "But Gorillas don't scratch their ears with their left hands!".
All films have inconsistencies, you just have to be lenient and allow a bit of poetic licence in the region of reality.
maybe we should've helped 'em then and pointed them over to Redmond...
eudas
Blessed is he who expects the worst, for he shall not be disappointed.
kind of what i was thinking. if you want to combat an idea, then you have to combat it with other ideas which weaken it... kind of like 'poisoning' the original idea. dilution, dissection, disinformation... all tools to destroy ideas and movements with. divide and conquer.
eudas
Blessed is he who expects the worst, for he shall not be disappointed.
i do not believe that this moderation is accurate. IMO this poster is right on target and deserves to be moderated UP, not down. i think he's right.
eudas
Blessed is he who expects the worst, for he shall not be disappointed.
yeah, and what they have on their side is that they don't have the logistical nightmare of attempting to coordinate 'a few thousand' programmers/technicians/admins who have other things to do.
eudas
Blessed is he who expects the worst, for he shall not be disappointed.
eudas
Blessed is he who expects the worst, for he shall not be disappointed.
Actually, everything EAST of the San Andreas fault will eventually slide into the Atlantic Ocean, leaving us crazy Pacific Coasters to dwell in peace.
Averye0
--o You're just jealous cause the voices talk to me and not to you! o--
It is not freedom when you have to keep something a secret.
<sarcasm>all of the worst code on my machine seems to have names attached to it. you know, boring useless shit like the linux kernel, GNU utilities, Perl... are these fuckers crazy putting their names on this stuff or what? i can't believe they even called this code "developed"!</sarcasm>
I do not have a signature
has anyone tried talking to the local newspapers or tv stations about this? They usually get stories about anything to do with computers horribly wrong (at least my local news does), but if someone explained to them everything that was entailed in this clearly, they might actually report it accurately...most people when told about the case against 2600 were appalled when it was explained to them, and if many more people could be given the same information, there might be a bit more support for the people who are exercising their legal rights.
They'll be subpeona-ing Major Domo first thing tommorrow I imagine, and his buddy Charlie Root, too.
Fist Prost
"We're talking about a planet of helpdesks."
-Jaron Lanier
If something is published with a pseudonym, then all rights to ownership are forfited, including copyrights.
Great, so sign it Jack Valenti and assign the rights to the FSF =)
Fist Prost
"We're talking about a planet of helpdesks."
-Jaron Lanier
Well, they're not arguing that, they're arguing that a CA court has jurisdiction over another US resident. Things like RICO set a fairly strong legal standard in support of their argument, so I won't be surprised in the slightest if the court upholds this.
Uh, the legal standard has always been, even since RICO, that if someone who is not a resident of your state and is not in your state when they commit the act, and none of the parties to the action of which the defendant knows are in the state, the court has no jurisdiction. Of course, I sure as hell am *NOT* a lawyer, but I work for about 50 of them..
However, RICO is a suck-ass law anyway, what with basically eliminating due process. It really blows how they can accuse you of "racketeering," or with being a mobster and just take your property and to get it back, *YOU* must petition the court and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you in fact used "clean" money to get it. What a screw.
Hell, if *I* ran Napster, and *I* had that $15 mil they got, www.napster.kg would be running now...
Hmm, good idea, if all the Napster officers, employees, and VCs funding them lived there, and if Napster wasn't a California corporation. Since they are, the California court would consider itself to be of competent jurisdiction, so, assuming the worst case, Napster would be found guilty, or the VCs would be convicted of contributory infringement. Then next time they came in the country (if ever) or to another country which wanted to arrest them for ignoring the California court.
-Nathan
Care about freedom?
Care about freedom?
Become a card carrying member of the GOA.
I don't use Napster. But, as much as I dislike Napsters implementation of the peer-to-peer file sharing concept I do not belive Napster is wrong.
Napster is merely terribly efficient at a task that can be done dozens of other ways (i.e. sharing files).
Note that I will say that I don't use Napster.
The security aspect of allowing non-open file sharing code to run on my system fills me with the horrors.
--
I'd install FreeBSD before I'd install Linux.
Well gee, I guess the defense needs to call some highly vocal and rich Open Source types to massage the judge's thinking... No one is going to sue Hollywood over those statements. C'mon, they make up reality every day. How accurate, even for 1983 was War Games? That's probably their perception of hackers; a bunch of little Matthew Brodericks running around getting into trouble by breaking into government computers, and when they are not doing that, getting a little sticky-finger from Ally Sheedy.
Nah, I don't go to the movies. This is based upon the fact that I spend way too much time on the Internet, and partly because I haven't seen anything out of Hollywood that seems remotely interesting.
Wouldn't that be Mac compatible?
Nah, it was VBscript virus so it ran just fine on the aliens computers.
I always find it funny how alien investigators never mention how alien races were present at ASCII standards meetings...
Blaming GW Bush for the Iraq war is like blaming Ronald McDonald for the poor quality of food.
I find it interesting that the DVD-CCA equates creating a web page while outside the us to shooting a bullet across state lines. This scares me...
... as if he had actually fired the bullet in the state."
"one who intentionally shoots a bullet
into a state is as subject to the judicial jurisdiction of [that] state
In ten years the internet we have today will be replaced by a virtual reality program that features grey Dodge Neons stuck in traffic on an interstate lined with seedy truck stops. Whoooeee! Now that's an information exchange! But then again, who knows what'll happen in M$ "innovates" the internet.
The accurate part is that the FBI gives Net Force the authority to police the internet. You know, blowing up buildings in Russia, arresting Chinese citizens and charging them in the US, etc...
That's OK. Sony would just firewall off the entire state of Kyrgyzstan. :)
I would be a paid subscriber if Taco and Hemos weren't such cunts
Well, that's beside the point...
Seriously, though. I'm the most intellectual property right-oriented person I know (not that I know that many people--after all, I use Linux and hang out on /. :). Everything I write, say, or think has a copyright stamp posted on it. My web pages have copyrights, trademarks, slogan marks, you name it. My code (there's not too much) has copyrights on it. I'm scared to death of copyright violations against me (oddly, I'm not quite as concerned about violations by me against somebody else--figure that one out!).
Despite this, I'm pro-open source. Everything on my PC was free of charge, and is 100% legal. I don't even have a copy of QT, although I guess that's legit. Whatever code I write (again, not that much) is distributed in source and binary format. I support freedom (speech and beer)--I just want credit for what's mine.
To say that open source supporters promote the spread of copyrighted material may be true, as long as spreading of that material is granted by the owner.
My views can perhaps best be expressed in my standpoint on one popular issue nowadays: I believe that the service provided by Napster is terribly wrong. Until copyright protections can be built into the system, it will never be right.
One will be quick to see that I did not say I don't use Napster... But I don't think it's right.
I do not belong in the spam.redirect.de domain.
As someone who actually had the unfortunate experience of being one of the people responsible for making "drug war" policy (which I generally thought was wrongheaded and immoral), I can tell you that you cannot make the argument that people are getting rich on the drug war. As with any "war", there are some people that make money as a result. But I can tell you that our wrongheaded democracy is giving people exactly what they want. I have (since a young age) thought that our frug laws are wrong. When I ended up being assigned to participate in the "war" as a public servant I thought the war was a simple matter government misinformation. I now know that although the government has played a role in misinformation (dating back to the 1900's), that our democracy gives people what they want, even if it is wrong. Believe me, when I got out and met with people, it is clear they support purtanical "banning" of things. Government gives "the people" exactly what they want. If rarely gives an individual everything he/she wants, but as a group people get what they ask for.
I smell a libel lawsuit that we could win. This defamation is so obvious that even a computer-illiterate pro-corporate biased judge couldn't rule against it. Then again the Judge could be computer-illiterate pro-corporate biased idiot judge.
Weren't the computer graphics used in Titanic, the highest grossing movie of all time, rendered on a cluster of Linux boxes to save money? Yet more hypocrisy from the MPAA. They call "open source" stealing and then use it to help make the most money ever made off of one film.
Hollywood supports Clinton-Gore. The most corrupt administration since Nixon, proven by thir own admission. So if they call we Linux crowd by name then we must be even more RIGHT than we think we are. Proving how the commie-lib-inductrial complex misunderstands the real world of technology.
In 2000 America, is a non-lawyer truly free?
However I don't believe that society is evil nor driven by people in smoke filled rooms. Oh and if it's that troubling then perhaps someone *looks around nervously* would like to create a few "accidents" of people in high places (ie various "evil" people you identify) I wouldn't be opposed. Has anyone actually attempted to actually say coerce^H^H^H^H^H^Hconvince some of these guys who control DVD media that you want their stuff? Perhaps someone should create say an opensource app that can create and use virtual actors, sets, scenes, and the like to create a movie? Do something like povray but take it to the next level. Make sure that it's possible to do this and create your own movie format. I find these topics vaguely irritating in their own way. I had a CS teacher who thought it was really cool to waste the time that we should have spent studying for a final better getting on a soap box and telling everyone how they should fear the boogieman. Ok guys and gals here's a really, really, maybe stupid, goofie idea. Why don't you stop using your actual names on the god damned code and including contact information for yourself. First rule on the internet after finger/cookies/ and personal web sites started being abused was never give out your real name. I have never actually let drop my real name in a public forum because I know better. Get a stupid free e-mail account and a free homepage service and upload your code and communicate to your minions. Why is everyone soooo suprised that people are getting tracked down if you are putting your real name on the code. It's like a person who puts a "secret" political manifesto and then publishes his advertisement for a barbecue to discuss it on the same document? It's just really stupid to me.
Respond to s
That might be a problem. Also recall that they had to rely on the people in the area 51 research facility and the like.
Respond to s
You have to admit more actual developmetn would happen if people would just swallow their pride and get the code out without their names.
Respond to s
Uh this may sound like it's rather damaging but from all the legal breifs comming out of California with all these various cases based on little or no hard evidence I wonder if the governmetn of California is full of crooks, robbers, and fools. I mean most of the major problems seem to happen there examples (I am not full of shit) 1. *Extreme* political groups ie communists, environmentalists, groups who like to git rid of humans because good ol' mother earth needs protectin', large scale companies managing to scam people like various industries like agriculture and manufacturing concerns. 2. High levels of utopian ideals including nudists, beatniks, a whole slew of extremely small religious cults. 3. Large populations of individuals who can be manipulated because they are screwed by the government and get low wages. 4. Because of 3 large ammounts of votes can be generated by people from camps 1-3 and can really get under the skin of society. 5. Holleywood was (and most likely still is) allied with communists of various degrees and also of persons who have extreme and to equal levels untenable ideas about society. I don't really care much about DVD technology but enough is enough. Society has to grow up and stop listening to extremists who seem to think that they can take the world into a *Brave new era* and live in the here and now. Open souce people are not evil ( I have my own idea for a spiffy program and indend to use most likely the GPL to accomplish it). Why is it that it just looks like *the* most liberal state in the union and consequently most of the *eeeeevvviiiilll* ideas that government has seem to all come out of california. Most states seem positively boring in return take oh say North Dakota or Main or maybe Vermont.
Respond to s
I like the part where it reads:
"LiVid is dedicated to the idea that all computer source code should be "open," even if that means stealing and disseminating protected intellectual property."
Is there a quote to support this ?
Hey, do you think we could sue the MPAA for libelous statements? Lets face it, they accused everyone in the open source community of being thieves, a totally baldfaced lie... That's like going to a soup kitchen and locking up everyone in line for shoplifting...
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
The DeCSS song! Try and ban a song for the code it contains, suckers! Moohahhahhhh! 166.90.148.115:5164
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
Using the DMCA, we can always retract the license of particular software (Linux) from use by movie publishers.
So the pulishers can force the DVD-kartel to stop suiing.
Ofcource the GPL licence does not allow discrimination.
Maybe the GPL should be changed the a license may not sue or harash the OpenSource movement. P.S. this was a joke. (although in every joke the is some thruth)
Someone sue the MPAA and work the DeCSS code into the document, then.
Those get archived, made available to the public, and posted on the net in most places, right?
Reading through the comments, i cant believe people can joke about this! I guess after a while you become immune to hollywood, mpaa, riaa, layers and other lower forms of life, but even so, it still amazes me.
Major corporations calling those in the OSS movement Crooks? Thats like an ass hole saying other peoples have cavities :-))
Are statutes covering this in California? If so, then why does Big Media seem to be immune?
bm :)-~
US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
We are the Borg.
Resistance is Futile.
Your uniqueness and your source code will be augmented onto our own
Your life as it has been is over
From this time forward, you will service us.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
If one takes this "rule" and applies it to just about anything involving the Internet, the results become laughable.
For example, say someone in the loathsome and decadent state of New York starts up a pornsite. The material being put on the web is legal, because we all know what horrible and godless people New Yorkers are.
Say a man living in the bastion of morality known as Draper, Utah decides to download images from this site. According to their interpretation of the "bullet guideline," the New York website owner has fired these images into Draper, violating their community standards, and causing the collapse of family values across Utah.
The specifics aren't important. The porn site could be replaced by "hate speech," information about an encryption algorithm, schematics for a device which can be used for illegal purposes, or any other piece of information that somebody, somewhere, felt to be somehow dangerous. Everyone, everywhere would have to abide by the most stringent laws of any state or locality in America.
Apologies in advance, but it's customary: MPAA legal briefs. . . Can you imagine a beowulf cluster of those babies?
You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!
Yeah! Man, I love that. I'm going to rip it as a WAV someday from the tape. (I'm going to buy the tape first, okay?)
After several years of UNIX administration (largely with incomprehensible documentation) hearing that sentence squealed in a shrill voice never fails to drop me crying with laughter.
PS:In the book, the girl doesn't know shit. They just did that in the flick to make it 'inclusive' or something.
MjM
XKCD:Xeric Knowledge Comically Dispen
Last I checked, the MPAA controlled say 80% of all movies...probably more once you figure in distribution control. How do we as consumers sue them for price fixing (specifically regional controls)?
Yet both the PLO and IRA are overwhelmingly considered "terrorists" by the general public. While that may work for their goals, in order to beat these masters of propaganda we NEED the public on our side. In a no-holds-barred fight, the odds are hugely in Goliath's favor. That's why this must remain a cold war for now; we have to find their weak spots and let them sufficiently embarrass themselves first (which they seem to be doing a pretty good job doing right now). The nice thing about fighting a Goliath is that if you're fast enough they have a tendency to step all over their own toes.
Remember that the founding fathers of the US are considered heroes only because they won. To the establishment of the time they were just some more rebel scum to be eliminated. But the difference is that they had at least the passive support of a large segment of the population in the territories they were fighting for.
Now, I'm not against a little revolution now and then if it's absolutely necessary. In fact, the in the writings of John Locke and company, who laid out some of the principles the American revolution was fought on, asserted that people who are living under an oppressive government have not only a right but a DUTY to change it through whatever means necessary, including overthrow. My point is that I don't think we're at that stage yet. There are still other options that may swing the balance. And you're wrong, the founding fathers didn't just pick up guns and start shooting. They held rallies and spread public awareness about the situation; wrote letters and tried to reason with the King, etc. Only when all of that failed did they resort to force.
At the risk of feeding a troll, I fell I must disagree with this post... Fighting "fire with fire", as it were, might serve to release anger and make us all feel better but wouldn't actually accomplish anything. Defacing web sites would do nothing more than reinforce the negative propaganda that is being spread and cause even more persecution against us.
No, the only way we can get out of this is to take the moral high ground and at least show the world that we're not what we are being painted as. I'm not saying that it will be easy, but in the end we WILL prevail for one reason -- we have the truth on our side. We must fight the likes of the MPAA with our one weapon; we must show the public the truth behind the curtain. We must try and make people understand why these Bad Things will come back to haunt them if they let it slip by...
.sig. This post certified 80% shorter than comparable posts by J0nk4tz
Perhaps they are not aware that it is open source because they bought it in a box...?
g reports running Apache/1.3.3 (Unix) PHP/3.0.5 on BSD/OS.
Check it out: http://www.netcraft.com/whats/?host=www.dvdcca.or
For the BSD-uninformed, BSD/OS is one of the few non-free BSD splits, distributed with Apache in a package called BSDi (BSD Internet Server)... It still doesn't change the fact that Apache is Open Source, though.
.sig coming soon
of course... everyone knows that alien computers are all i386 compatible.
While the opening of their brief appears to indicate that if you support Open Source, you "are a crook", they are not equating all Open Source with software or copyright piracy.
What they are saying is that Open Source supports the free and ready access of information, and so do a lot of the people illegally trading copyrighted materials.
Now, while it is wrong to even intimate that people who support Open Source are all software pirates, it is unlikely that the attorneys involved realized the ramifications of what they were writing in their brief. From my experience, most lawyers, unless they are very good at Patent Law (specialyzing in software) they will be unaware of what they are talking about.
Lawyers are paid to sound good; not necessarily to actually be knowledgeable about the subjects of which they speak.
Kierthos
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
Umm... does that include slime molds?
--
while ( !universe->perfect() ) {
hack (reality);
--
while ( !universe->perfect() ) {
hack (reality);
}
After that, it's only a short time until the minions of Cthulhu and Yog-Sothoth (sp?) take over the world!
--
while ( !universe->perfect() ) {
hack (reality);
--
while ( !universe->perfect() ) {
hack (reality);
}
"I am a goat fucker."
Richard Stallman - 1996
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The Slashdot stand-in
..638th post?
Who will shut down the other 97 channels? The people, that's who, insisting on conformity and singularity of thought.
Remember when all men wore hats - identical hats - to work? We are on the other end of that pendulum swing right now. Strauss and Howe argue that history is cyclic in nature and that we are inevitably going to see that pendulum swing back.
In the 30s, 100,000 school children gathered on Boston Commons to chant in unison that they would help President Roosevelt make the country better and stronger. Today we can't imagine that sort of conformist indoctrination, especially in support of a politician. But those children were in the midst of a crisis cycle.
That same generation produced survivor "Rudy" -- whose word is good no matter what, who would lay down and give his life for his fellow navy seals, but at the same time who is relentlessly bigoted and unaccepting of behavior one notch away from the norm.
We can only hope that crisis doesn't lead to his sort of shutdown of individual choice. We don't know what sort of common approach will be celebrated, though. Instead of insisting on the racial/sexual/etc bigotry of yesteryear, the new commonality might be the political correctness of today, or something we can't possibly anticipate.
In any case you can see the whole thing starting; today's kids are definitely more cared-for and thus more carefully indoctrinated than they were 20 years ago.
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Um, I'd be happy to be corrected, but before I believe possession of DeCSS in source form is NOT a felony with the stated maximum penalties under DMCA, I'd want to hear a lawyer confirm it in his professional capacity. Your common sense opinion is regrettably not the final word on the matter: more's the pity. If it was that simple and sensible, a lot of people would have less to worry about. Where does the law stand NOW? Is it not the case that you can be charged with a felony crime for knowing possession of DeCSS (specifically) in source code form?
This is not a new strategy. The U.S. Government used this strategy for many years to slow the adoption of personal encryption products, and it worked. For example, the persecution of Phil Zimmerman was specifically designed to slow the adoption of his PGP software as the standard mechanism for private EMAIL, and it worked -- how many people today send private encrypted EMAIL? Almost nobody, outside of a few dozen subscribers to the Cypherpunks mailing list. Sure, you and I can send encrypted EMAIL between each other (or could if I'd ever bothered generating a key :-), but how many ordinary everyday people could do that using the ordinary software that came with their computer?
My feeling is that this case will be found in favor of the DVDCCA, because regardless of the Constitution of the United States, the next President will be as much a corporate puppet as the majority of congressmen are. People hold hope that the Supremes might rule different. They certainly may. And the horse could learn to talk too. Recent rulings by the Supremes show that anything you get out of them is a crapshoot, meaning that even if they accept a case such as MPAA vs. 2600, there's a good chance they will decide that the economic health of the United States is more important than the Constitution (after all, they've ruled that RICO is constitutional, even though it violates at least two of the Bill of Rights).
I have no solutions. I am not enamored of revolution. The so-called "leaders" of revolutions tend to be rather unsavory power-hungry types who are worse than the dictators that they replace, and besides, most people are affluent enough that they don't mind that they now live in a corporate dictatorship rather than in a free country (not that the United States has ever been particularly free -- just ask union organizers of the 1930's, or civil rights workers of the 1950's, about how "free" the United States ever was). After all, this corporate dictatorship has proven far better at providing mind-numbing entertainment and consumer goods than the earlier power cliques that ruled this country, such as, e.g., the military/industrial clique in the 1950's (thus the "Red Scare"). Certainly that messy thing called "democracy" is far inferior to this nice, safe corporate state? After all, the planes DO run on time, right? (okay, so that one went over your head, it was about Mussolini -- despite his boasting that fascism made the trains run on time, by all acounts Italian trains were off-schedule just as regularly during his fascist rule as they were before it... Italians have never been known for efficiency, fascist or not :-).
-E
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
Beg pardon?
Where?
I see plenty of articles about software patents. But I haven't seen a thing suggesting that copyright be removed.
That copyright not be extended to exclude fair use, and that it not permit the owner to control access to legally purchased media -- yup, I've seen plenty of that. But copyright itself? Without copyright, there would be no GPL, no Artistic License, no licenses at all -- everything would be public domain. And whether you're trying to make money by hiding your code, or keep people from stealing it and putting it into commercial software without giving you credit, everyone here sees that as A Bad Thing.
So don't make those accusations. They're simply untrue.
If it was that simple, we wouldn't have much of a problem. You can stick your head in the sand and keep thinking that the judicial system is not predjudice, but that just makes you willfully ignorant. Most judges are old white guys who have learned to be predjudice from their parents, who in turn learned it from their parents, etc. Yes, it's gotten better over time, but it is still very very real, and a lot more widespread than anyone would care to admit. The poster was right, black people usually do get a harsher sentence than a white person for committing the exact same crime. "You do the crime, you do the time" is not really the issue. The issue is that 2 people doing the same crime should do the same time, all other things being equal. Unfortunately, things often don't work that way.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Just to clarify, Apache itself is open source, regardless of what OS it's running on.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
That's a terribly romantic notion you have, and you could probably even turn it into a movie plot if you wanted to. The problem is that geeks as a group are terribly outgunned in the sense that they cannot bring the kind of money, power, focus, and influence to bear on a problem that the big media industry can. Media has the ability to influence popular opinion. If open source software or free software can be turned into phrases that carry a negative cannotation, and the public can be made to think that they are bad things that hurt artists and hard-working Americans everywhere, then we are screwed. Don't go thinking that we hold all the cards. You're way off base.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Why? Because one of the strongest arguments MPAA and RIAA have is that file sharing and unlicensed DVD watching takes away their profit. If the statistics show that the sales have actually gone up instead of down, they can't use that argument anymore.
RIAAs profits ARE up, and it hasn't slowed them down one bit.
Open Source is a trademarked word, and there are a few people who stand behind the coined term in order to enhance their position is this meritocracy we have.
At what point is this assertion libelous? They didn't slander any human beings in particular, but people have associated themselves very closely with the "Open Source Movement". I'm fairly certain that Open Source is a registered trademark. I'm no lawyer, but i would be interested to know when there is a case.
This raises some interesting questions about the legality of the Free Film Project, which attempts to usurp the entire of Hollywood with Open Source alternatives.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
I know every time I read slashdot there is some new article telling me how copyrights are evil and they should be abolished.
:)
And slashdot does claim to be part of this so-called "Open Source" movement.
No, there is no spoon... It's your mind that bends...
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
I'm totally and utterly pissed at this. I suspect many others are too- but they cope with the situation a little differently. Me, I'm not sure what to make of this; I'm a member of both the Open Source community (as well as one of the Free Software community...) and I think they just defamed me. I wish, for one moment that I could kick-start a class action suit- but those jerks know they're immune and they're trying every dirty trick they think they can pull.
I'm furious that they had the unmitigated gall to tar all of us with that same brush.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Tee hee. They don't even know where to find a leader of the Open Source movement :-)
Bruce Perens.
But we do have a lot of common views and an emergent group identity, and we could easily move to a situation where a geek who worked for the Big Media was socially ostracised by other geeks
In my recent job search, I interviewed with and briefly considered working for a company that's involved in developing secure formats for digital content. I don't know very much about exactly where they fit into the picture with MP3 vs. SoDoMI, etc., but it seemed close enough to pose a moral conflict for me. I mentioned it to a few friends and they speculated (at least, I hope, part-jokingly) that they wouldn't be able to hang out with me anymore if accepted that job. I wouldn't say that that decided it for me, since I had just about reached the same decision on my own (namely, that I couldn't work there because I didn't agree morally with their goals), but I think the whole story is close enough to your suggestion to be relevant.
David Gould
David Gould
main(i){putchar(340056100>>(i-1)*5&31|!!(i<6)<< 6)&&main(++i);}
A slightly toned down version of the troll's post (reproduced below, since the moderators did not recognize its value) could very easily be used as an argument in court by DVD-CCA lawyers (and in fact, this reasoning is most likely exactly where they came up with their comment in the first place). Worse, I can easkily see this being used later in news broadcasts (remember who owns the major news distributors) and PR campeigns...
The troll:
DNA just wants to be free...
It's tough with so many boycotts, but you have to stick to your guns to keep your credibility.
To make the analogy more appropriate it would have to be something like, "But Gorillas can't fly a Me 262!"
Heh. Now, aliens at ISO meetings--that I can understand.
*Of* *course* the whole thing was sophistry!
Ever try to get people to think? It's damn near impossible these days. There are terrible things being done by the American legal system and government. Absurd laws are being passed -- laws that give businesses more power than people; laws that give police more powers and reduce people's rights; laws that punish people who don't cause physical harm to property or people.
Why are these laws being made? Why isn't the general public up in arms and demanding that the government F.O.A.D.? Why is most everyone so sheeplike that they're going to let their every freedom and right be infringed on, to the point where they'll no longer have freedoms or rights?
The only way to kickstart some people's brains is through sophistry. And even then, it doesn't seem to always work -- *you* certainly don't seem to be giving your head a shake and thinking about the implications of what I've said, even if you were to slash the figures I posted to one-tenth their size.
The American Way is on the fast-track to becoming the same way as the dictatorships that have been mentioned.
Wake up, people. You gotta start figuring out that the government is becoming a police dictatorship. By the time it becomes as full-fledged as those in China, Burma and Africa, it'll be too damned late to change it.
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Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
The stat is from the New York Times, quoting the Bureau of Justice Statistics.
I believe the idea is that you take the incarceration rate of 647/100000, which would be an annual average, and multiply it out by a lifespan -- say fifty years (we'll give the kids a break). Of course this ignores recidivism and such...
...but the point is made: the incarceration rate is atrociously high. It *USED* to be around 313/100000 in 1985, and about 215/100000 in the seventies. Averaged through the first seventy-five years of the past century, it was around 110/100000.
Do take notice that the numbers are heading geometric, not linear.
Now ask yourself *WHY* so many people are being tossed into prison. Is the murder rate heading skyward? Is theft growing?
What sort of personal and/or property damages are being done that justify so many arrests? Or are the crimes victimless: the perps being self-abusive drug users?
And follow the money. Who benefits by a large prison population? Who's getting paid? Who makes a profit? Who gains an advantage by removing people's voting privileges?
There are connections and ideas that have to come to mind. If you're reasonably intelligent, I believe you'll start to suspect that the system is loaded, that someone's making big money, and that the whole prison situation would be a farcical obscenity if it weren't so destructive to fellow citizens.
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Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
http://www.freedomforum.org/news/2000/08/2000-08-2 4-05.htm
A small taste of being black in America.
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Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
Seriously, I've just read not one, but THREE stories on Slashdot that indicate to me that the US Government is DANGEROUSLY OUT OF CONTROL.
Is there a full moon out tonight?
I, for one, am fed up with lawyers, corporations and unelected beaurocrats running the government that supposedly belongs to the people. I'm tired of seeing court rulings and laws slanting towards the MONEY, and away from the people. I'm tired of the Republicans, and I'm especially tired of the Democrats. There's not a bit of difference between them anymore. Both parties feel they know better how to run my life, and take 35% of my weekly paycheck to do so.
From what I've been reading lately, things aren't much better in Canada, Great Britain or Australia. And forget about Singapore!
It's time for a GLOBAL tea party... a tea party that will make the WTO protests look like a stroll in the park.
For those of you in the US, I urge you to not walk, but RUN to the Libertarian Party's site and Harry Browne's site. Please DON'T opt for the lesser of two evils in this election; we're at a crossroads here, and whoever is elected next will have a lot of influence on which of the roads we travel down.
If you don't believe in either of the two major candidates, send them a message this November. Vote for a third party candidate. Even if your candidate doesn't win, you're sending the winner a message that you're not happy with the status quo!
Folks, the articles I've read here tonight tell me that this is WAY beyond Open Source vs. Microsoft or KDE vs. Gnome. This is about rights (for those of us in the US) being trampled on that our founding fathers saw were basic for human beings. Don't let the corporations strip us of these basic rights!!
Dave Walker
Dunno, but last time I masturbated, I certainly didn't give it out, much less for free...
Duh ? Crime against the nation??? Alleged copyright infringement a "crime against the nation"??? Gee, Hollywood must have been smoking some really good shit!!!
anonymous
coward
if you don't believe what you say, why say it?
This is especially ironic from someone posting, as most of us do, under a pseudonym.
How does the fact that one is posting anonymously equate to not believing what one says?
Has it never occurred to you that someone might post anonymously so that he won't get fired? Perhaps because he believes very strongly in what he's saying, but feels that his duty to feed his children overrides your curiousity over his identity?
-
Unfortunately, it isn't a trademark of the OSI. Their application was turned down on the grounds that the term "Open Source" is too broad.
I created a GPL-like Free Media License in order to release my amatuer film work, as well as a novel (Warning - incomplete 1st draft, very rough!) and screenplay I am writing that dramatizes the conflict between the Copyright Cartels and the proponents of the free exchange of information.
I am of course an amateur, and no direct threat to Hollywood, but the license is available for anyone to use. A few people with more talent[1] than I making use of it could become a real reason for Hollywood to fear.
[1]Fortunately, my mediocre talent still far surpasses that of much of Hollywood's writers, though that isn't saying much I'm afraid.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
What country do you live in? I refer you to the case where the United States invaded Panama, apprehended Manuel Noriega, and brought him back to the US where he was convicted of crimes against US law while leading Panama, a sovereign nation.
Way, offtopic but since I'm a Panamenian I have to clarify this. Since when was Noriega (Pineapple face) "the leader of Panama". He was not an elected leader, but a dictator, that had many puppet presidents. This is a known fact !
There are arguments about the invasion, and about Noriega being in a US jail (he should be in a real jail, in Panama), but don't make it sound like the bastard was some kind of good leader. For goodness sake, he declared war on the US !!!
Most of the people in Panama wanted him out.
- sigs are for wimps.
If you look at the list of companies that will match the donations to the EFF made by their employees, you will find Sony Pictures Entertainment, Walt Disney and Twentieth Century Fox for example (all members of the MPAA. See About the MPAA).
With big corporations like these behind us, finding funds to help win the DeCSS should be easy...
If I read this correctly.. This is Open source like hackers are crackers...
The key figure is the bad guy who is using the term Open Source for his own agenda.
But the objective of open source isn't to forcably rip peoples copyrights from them but to prevent them from putting copyrights on otherwise free (as in speach) software.
It is also to bring out awareness of todays busnesses (the Hollywood film industry is no exeption) is abusing IP laws by clamming IP rights to everything from trivial ideas to coffy cup stains on the table and enforcing those rights in an outragous manner.
But it is not about violating the law. It is not about taking a persons hard work away from them.
Today an executive gets premoted becouse he bumpped his head had a strange dream and patented it.
I'm all for copyrights on films that cost $1milion to film. I'm all for copyrighting the script that some writer (hack or not) sat down and wrote over 6 months to 4 years (With breaks for bathroom, food, sex, life, etc).
And I'm all for copyrights on even the most trival of code. I'm also for not buying it and leaving him poor for his efforts.
But this isn't open souce... this is a theaf...
To highlight just how little reguard he has for other people...
He calls his effort.. "Open source"
and to show how much Hollywood cares... they never bothered to seperate him from us...
Instead this theaf and our work are lumpped together...
I say we go out and interview Hollywood... no not the industry... the street gang... (there should be at least one named something like "The Hollywood thugs").
I don't actually exist.
THe case is not about 'reverse engineering'.
/mechanism to circumvent a technological copy control mechanism'.
THe case is about DMCA and 'distributing information / device
THe case is not about how they arrived with DECSS.. everyone, even the lawyers, like to try to bringn up the outside issues.
THe case is about decss, period, as a violation of the DMCA.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but we may have won the battle with DVD's but may still loose the war over time.
In the sense that the DeCSS cat is out of the bag and cannot be put back in, we may have won the battle, and many people seem more than happy to flaunt this by being in the faces of Hollywood and the MPAA, but it will be difficult to win the war in the long run.
The real enemy is the DMCA, not the MPAA, but even if the DMCA is overturned, it may not matter. You can bet the next technology after DVD will use much stronger encryption, and with decryption keys that can be changed over time or are customized to each individual user, not to mention digital watermarks, etc. - they've learned their lesson and the next system will be much harder to crack, or if it proves crackable, much harder to make a mass distributable circumvention tool. If it can't be cracked, then presence or lack of the DMCA won't really matter.
The reality is that pay-per-view is coming whether we like it or not. The problem is that we have a legal system that allows us to enter into legally binding contracts. I would also bet that the next form of mass media distribution may involve signed contracts between producers and consumers, similar to satellite TV contracts. Once you have a signed contract, fair use issues are pretty much moot - you are bound by whatever is in the contract. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a signed contract of the form "I'll produce entertainment content for you if you agree not to do such-and-such with it" is probably perfectly legal. They're not stupid, they proably won't make the same mistake again.
You might say "well, content providers will pop up that won't do things this way, and we'll support them". The problem is we're so dependent on Hollywood for our entertainment that it won't work - how many of us will give up seeing the next Star Wars movie? Really, how many?
In a sense, the mass movie market is already pay-per-view. Most of the huddled masses these days rent their movies, they're already used to it, so a small boycot on the fringes will probably be unlikely to change things much. As a result, we're ultimately going to have to accept closed-source viewing software.
Kind of pessimistic, but that's the way I see it anyway.
Hollywood is full of liberals?? True in a moral sense, maybe.
Hollywood people, the big money people, are conservative to the bone. They tolerate most liberals because their $7.50 plus popcorn is as good as anyone else's. Directors are liberal, producers are liberal, actors are liberal, backers and distributors are conservative as hell.
~Jason
Indoctrination? So, how bout we lose the uniforms, and have schools where the divide between rich kid (wearing his latest Tommy jacket) versus poor kid is exaggerated. The world is not a conspiracy.
Open Source. Closed Minds. We are Slashdot.
anonymous
coward
if you don't believe what you say, why say it?
two more pairs of words
nothing ventured
nothing gained
--
+&x
I must disagree with your assumption that the only way we can find commonality in a society is to have some inane TV series that we all watch. Having any TV channels at all is only a recent experience as far as history is concerned and societies before ours had no problems finding commonalities. With an increasingly wide variety of entertainment choices, people will (and are) discovering other things that they share in common.
The next question is how long society will tolerate this before reverting back to conformity and three "channels" again.
How will that happen? Who is going to shut down the other 97 channels? Who is going to decide which three channels to keep? I doubt you will find any consensus among the populace about which channels they are willing to give up to achieve their desired commonality. And what about the Internet with its millions of channels? That also pulls people away from their precious 3-channel television commonality. Will everyone willingly give up their Internet connections?
If our only common experience is that we were lied to by the same politicians and corporations, then when a real crisis occurs...
Actually, when people finally realize that that is their most common experience, there will be a real crisis -- for the politicians and corporations. I predict that there will be a new popular shared entertainment: tar and feather parades. People will gather around the water cooler on Mondays and discuss whether Joe Congressman or Jane CEO really got the treatment they deserved or whether they should be run through the gauntlet again next Saturday.
Trickster Coyote
Please ignore the man behind the curtain.
Ideology is for ideots.
Hmmm, shame we can't make a new version of the GPL lincence that says that the US movie studios and companies doing contract work for them can't use GPL software.
IIRC you can do this kind of thing with UCITA.
What country do you live in? I refer you to the case where the United States invaded Panama, apprehended Manuel Noriega, and brought him back to the US where he was convicted of crimes against US law while leading Panama, a sovereign nation.
This case is notable because the US actaully pulled it off. If things are so easy why has the same stunt not been pulled with Serbia, Iraq and Cuba?
The USA showing contempt for international law is hardly news.
Panama is also a third world country. A relative push-over. Try the same technique with a first or second world country and all hell would break loose.
Plenty of 3rd world countries you wouldn't want to fool with. The most amazing thing is how few US cites have been subjected to bombings.
Did you know that Americans stand a 1/5 chance of going to jail at some point in their lives? If your so unfortunate as to be a black American, you're closer to a 1/3 chance of incarceration
The effects of sexist outweigh those of racism in American incarceration. Even though the rates are very high the group of people affected are a minority
Who is gonna bomb the US when they can be sure of the fact that thier entire nation is goong to be wiped out as a result.
A Kamakazi organisation maybe. Someone who can do so without getting caught. Anyway how much damage would be needed to disrupt the US drastically.
Not that I can talk, been watching TV all day, even when I was reduced to watching 80's feel good comedys...
~ppppppppö
Swedloff, sowwy got carried away, pls ignore the please ignore rest of comment after 8th word.
If you do, then we're in trouble when a more repressive regime than the US attempts to indict us in the US for crimes against their nation elsewhere.
Umm yeah and that's really likely to happen, face it, you have won, whatever happens to the world is entirely on your shoulders now, you asked for it, you got it.
Who is gonna bomb the US when they can be sure of the fact that thier entire nation is goong to be wiped out as a result.
Oh darn, straying back on topic, these terrorists in the good old moving pictures, they are fighting for a cause, they are very rarely going to waste their own country in the process, no matter what Hollywood tells you.
That is why we aren't all deaded, you need to push harder, never know what might happen.
~ppppppppö
's what I love about The Reg BBS (my more normal haunt), even though it is slow as driving a transit thru mud, you can delete your comments after the fact.
PS, (re the sig thing) I also wrote this great scipt (read IRL crap hack) to convert the 2600 page to links, anybody have any idea as to the legality of the whole thing if I was to bung it up on say linux.net.uk (if they exist, if they are an isp, if I have an account with them, if I didn't care about their common carrier status, down to one eye now (left) If I seemed tostop making sense about 4 hours ago, then I did), but anyway even in the US, the script could convert and display any page, if people choose to paste the 2600 URL, well it is up to them..))
Actualy it is all just silly, silly I tell you, I really hope you 'Merkins aren't wasting your votes, cos well hey, what you vote for we have to live with, and we DO bear grudges.
~ppppppppö
But you get the coconut, banana, [fruit of your choice].
Congrats, we HAVE a winner!!!!
And for all the people itching to reply that either a coconut || banana isn't a fruit, please provide links, I like to learn. :)
~ppppppppö
Bugger, I had a punchline, and it was good, and slightly surreal (only slighly cos I know we have Americans in the audience :P [yeah I know cheap jab and all that, hmm and on third thoughts, I am not meaning to give offence to anyone from the US, it was meant as humour based on commonly understood stereotypes, and in no way representative of the readership of SlashingDot. Therefore you do NOT need to lecture me endlessly about how only you have freedom cos you have the old pointing killing things, the war of indepance is a closed book to me, I prefer it that way, Do you get my train of thought here?, if not check below].
Unfortunately I was disrtacted as all the kittens woke up, bastards that they are, umm although kinda cute.
IF you are willing to assert your rights, so are they, are you making your views known to the right people? (As with all my comments, except the ones about FTL travel, why oh Why, won't you read between the lines....)
Or something.... (Sorry Rotoplooker, but when you have the world's greatest sig you have to expect it's gonna be nicked, and for future refence don't leave the doors unlocked)
~ppppppppö
So where the hell is the $4 billion dollars of loss (or whatever they're claiming) coming from?
:)
Simple. Lawyer fees for all the times they sue us
I wasn't lost... I was only momentaraly confused of my spacial orientation relative to my prime destination.
Just buying my fall semester books, and I was forced to pickup one book through our Barnes & Noble operated campus bookstore. Graphic design book, no supplements, CDs, etc---but it's shrink wrapped. I want to thrumb through the book to see if it's moot to me, but I can't, because it's shrink wrapped. And I can't return it after its opened becuase... it's shrinkwrapped. Going to complain to the president's office.
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Am I the only one who thinks Microsoft is a misnomer? Perhaps Macrosoft would be a better fit?
When Judge Kaplan took the mantra 'information wants to be free' (as in free-dom) and turned it into 'information should be available without charge' (as in free aol CD's) he took a step that, carried to it's logical conclusion, 'free software movement' would be categorized as the 'without charge software movement'.
The meanings of free (liberty) and freedom are being marginalized all the time by corporate interests. It's a common theme in adds nowadays.. the idea that consumer goods give you 'freedom' (i.e. cars); that you have a 'right to free checking'. I don't like 'the freedom to choose which cola to drink' when it is marginalizing my freedoms to speak my mind, carry a gun, and worship in any or no manner.
This sort of thing is to categorize people looking for free-dom as looking for free-ride, and that translates from someone seeking liberty to someone seeking to steal just by using the word out of context.
It's fast approaching what was described in 1984; 'free' will no longer carry both it's meanings. It'll be free beer and nothing else.
-- Greg
Slashdot, would a spell-checker for posting be too much to ask? It's not rocket science!
The fact there is a qtr million people in the open/free source arena doesn't mean squat. The fact that it honestly matters little what the courts do as we can always find ways around it doesn't mean squat. The fact that we have "reality" behind us doesn't mean squat.
This is about a select few that have long standing credibility in the business/political arenas... it's about what you can sell. The truth doesn't mean anything... all the facts in the world don't mean anything. We are all about of individuals that have been framed in a poor light frequently and unfortunately sometimes we assist that portrayl... why should anyone listen?
Until... you get a judge who can cut through the crap to the core issues defeats are inevitable.
Brian Macy
What makes me disappointed is that no matter what we do, I doubt we even have a chance against hollywood. They are too powerful!
Bullshit! We do so have the power - more than most would believe:
They are producers - we are consumers.
How about we go somewhere else for our lunch, or better yet - perhaps we should make our own sandwiches ourselves, like good adults?
I support the EFF - do you?
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
In any case you can see the whole thing starting; today's kids are definitely more cared-for and thus more carefully indoctrinated than they were 20 years ago.
I got a little more scared this past weekend.
My girlfriend and I had a family party - a gathering of family and friends, eating ice cream, cake, chips and dip - talking and such.
I got on the topic of the whole DVD thing, and I spoke of how I watched George Carlin on TV, talking about school uniforms today.
One of my GF's nieces was at the table, and said she liked the school uniforms - her dad was there as well (my GF's brother-in-law), and said he liked the idea of the uniforms because it cost him less as a parent.
You should have seen the look on their faces as I asked how the rest of the indoctrination program was coming along...
Actually, I will tell you: It was BLANK. Utterly and totally BLANK. Almost like I had said nothing (more likely I had said something that didn't fit into their internal worldview model). It disturbed me. Conversation hurridly switched to another topic - my GF told me to be quiet about the whole thing (DVD, MPAA, 2600, etc).
I steadfastly told her and those assembled I would not be quiet on such a topic - because the outcome of everything surrounding it would determine the way our lives would be lived in the near future.
I don't think I made any friends that day.
I support the EFF - do you?
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
Look, I don't want to sound arrogant but I think you may have the boot on the wrong foot. Try looking at it this way. Every newspaper the media produce, every television channel, and certainly every Website, depends on a great deal of electronic technology and computer systems. If there were an Amagamated Union of Geeks which could call all the geeks who look after those systems out, the all-powerful media would just stop.
Of course we don't and won't have an Amalgamated Union, because geeks just aren't like that -- we're too individualistic. But we do have a lot of common views and an emergent group identity, and we could easily move to a situation where a geek who worked for the Big Media was socially ostracised by other geeks; while the comparison with old-style labour organisation doesn't fit exactly, they could become the equivalent of 'black-legs'. And then you would move to a situation where Big Media just could not hire and retain the geek labour it needs in order to operate. Given the full employment and high labour mobility in the geek labour market, if geeks as a community came to see working for Big Media as uncool and morally repugnant, they could in practice all vote with their feet remarkably quickly - the geek economy is so strong it could quickly absorb all that labour.
I've often seen us geeks as the modern equivalent of the medieval masons - people with actually immense power - power to topple governments - if we choose to use it, because no large organisation, be it a movie company or a television channel or a government - can operate at all if we choose to boycott it.
So I would rephrase your quote: Unfortunately, when you're dealing with geeks, you are at an incredible disadvantage, as they hold almost all of the cards in the deck when it comes to dissemination of information to the populace.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
--
--
"I personal[ly] think Unix is "superior" because on LSD it tastes like Blue." -- jbarnett
And I quote:
"Basically any 3D rendering was quite likely to have been done on the FreeBSD machines (we can't say exactly what because CPUs are allocated automatically from a pool via a queuing system). This includes things like the big completely CG view of the foetus fields or the shots of the Nebuchadnezzar and its environment."
(in classic reference to The Matrix, of course.)
Also notable: the single BIGGEST movie in Hollywood, ever, as much as we hate to admit it...
When "Titanic" opened on Dec. 19, 1997, Linux developers rejoiced. Not because the movie proved how bad an actor Leonardo Di Caprio was but because the Titanic owed its existence to the Linux operating system -- specifically, the 105 Linux servers that crunched numbers in the backroom of the offices of special-effects company Digital Domain.
In reference to Titanic, which, IIRC, was the single most-money-grossing movie in Hollywood's history ever. Thanks in no small part to Open Source.
The left doesn't know what's right anymore.
I have come to disbelieve that anyone with any significant political power actually holds any measureable political beliefs. "Left vs Right" or "Conservative vs Liberal" doesn't exist anymore (if it ever did); at least now, it is only a facade to serve as entertainment for those unable or unwilling to think for themselves. The 'two sides' are one group comprised of individuals concerned, first and foremost by a vast margin, with their own personal success. Politics and representation of those who (often-ignorantly) put and keep them in power be damned; a comfortable life and a secure, fat paycheck are the only real goals.
We may be witnessing them being torn between their liberalism and their desire to make a buck.
I doubt that their claimed liberalism exists, and this issue is simply further evidence to support my belief.
Perhaps it is because I do have strong political beliefs that I tend toward being a Libertarian rather than supporting the Republicrats. But I do not belong to any political party at the moment, and I am not yet prepared to believe that a Libertarian in power would hold true to the party's political ideals any more than a Republicrat in power.
The real question is, when will those in the Open Source (and/or Free Software) movement(s) learn to take the new power in their hands, given freely by the masses pouring themselves onto the Internet, to wrest the court of public opinion in line with their position?
Ah well... ''
No Laughing Allowed!
Article about personal jurisdiction on the internet. Pretty balanced.
I assume that this document is supposed to convince someone(a judge?) that these claims are true.
They are either truely ignorant in their own right or they are know what they are saying and are assuming that it would be too complicated for anyone to easily explain why they are wrong.
Given that open source has been trendy for a year or two now, every major computer company has jumped in front of the parade. If the DVD CAA want to make open source sound like a fringe movement the solution would be to show the judge a pile of press releases from companies like Microsoft,IBM,Corel etc. saying how they are at the forefront of the open source movement
These press releases always say that [company name] has always considered [trendy thing] to be an intergral part of the future of the computer industy. As such [company name] has played an active role in the development of [trendy thing]
blahblahblah, etc, etc.
Lets face it. There has to be some use for these press releases.
-- That which does not kill us has made its last mistake.
We all feel that the MPAA is evil, yet how many of us put the money in thier lawyers pockets when we go to the movies? $8 you're other vote
It's the 21st Century Do you know what your government is doing
Actually I used to think this too... Until I saw an SGI machine running a data mining (I think that what they called it) tool. Guess what, the interface was exactly like that one on Jurassic Park. Technically it was an IRIX system, but I digress.
Fighting "fire with fire" seems to have resulted in a measure of success for the PLO and the IRA. History is replete with those who took the "moral high ground," yet were unwilling to take a stand and fight the opressors. Most of them aren't with us any more. The United States didn't get where it is because the Founding Fathers passed out leaflets and held rallys. When English oppression became untenable they picked up guns and shot the fuckers through the head. If you think situations where a powerful minority dictates the status quo to a passive minority can be rectified through education and raising awareness, you're deluding yourself.
-Vercingetorix
-Vercingetorix
"Necessitas non habet legem." -St. Augustine
JARED BOBROW (Bar No. 133712)
CHRISTOPHER J. COX (Bar No. 151650)
WEIL, GOTSHAL & MANGES LLP
Silicon Valley Office
2882 Sand Hill Road, Suite 280
Menlo Park, CA 94025-7022
Telephone: (650) 926-6200
Facsimile: (650) 854-3713
ROBERT G. SUGARMAN
JEFFREY L. KESSLER
EDWARD J. BURKE (Bar No. 103414)
JONATHAN S. SHAPIRO
WEIL, GOTSHAL & MANGES LLP
767 Fifth Avenue
NewYork,NY 10153
Telephone: (212) 310-8000
Facsimile: (212) 310-8007
Drop 'em a line why don't you. The country code for the US is 1.
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
I wanted to take it one step further though. I have open source software on my site. (Heck, on of them is even an educational kids game, how evil of me, eh?) And I honestly take this personally offensive. I'm not one of the people that frequent here that think anything that can be copied should be given away free, heck, I'm not even an "Open Source" zealot, much less a Piracy-Zealot. But the fact of the matter is I support open source software, I write open source code, this was obviously an attack that effects me. If I were to tell someone now that I am a big supporter of Open Source, thanks to the DVD guys that is going to have negative connotation. Remember "Open Source" isn't a term that has made it into the mainstream yet, and this DVD Slander isn't they way we want it to get there.
My point is that anyone who has ever written a piece of Open Source code (and maybe even those who have downloaded it) should be able to file a gigantic class action suit against the DVD people. With big companies like Red Hat and Corel that could very will be a very large lawsuit. One that would get alot of publicity for Open Source, setting the record straight, and maybe even putting the DVD guys in their place once and for all.
www.dvdcca.org is running Apache/1.3.3 (Unix) PHP/3.0.5
So these guys are using a pirated web server and scripting language... We should sue them over this.
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
A traditionally decentralized group, computer geeks, have a modus operandi of operating under the radar screens of people like this.
Not all of us. I, for example, am completely invisible to radar altogether, and can therefor operate at any altitude I like with impunity...
What, he wasn't literally talking about a radar? Oh, never mind then. (Now, you laugh)
Seriously, you do make a good point. I'm betting that almost every geek's view on what they persist in incorrectly referring to as IP is different, but I'm also betting you'd be hard-pressed to find one with a decent knowledge of copyright law who says what they're doing is right or legal. They really do have no idea whatsoever what they're doing, and I'm getting an impression that they're very desperate.
-RickHunter
Is it just me or has our whole legal system gone completly nuts? Last time a checked, a trade secret is only legally protected until it is revealed to the public, at which time, it does fall under the protection of a "trade secert." As for reverse engineer, I don't think we have a law preventing that either. I've read through some DeCSS things and I don't understand how any of the accusations made can hold in court at all, but somehow, they are. Maybe there is some unwritten rule that if judge don't understand the case they are supposed to make stupid rulings. - Preston
For instance, suppose I was Tony Blair. I could say that Prince Charles is the biggest fucking dick in the world and that he is incompetent of representing England as her Head of State.
However, since these statements (while inflammatory) do not in any way ruin Chuck's chances of being King, he has no case against me.
Turn it around however, if Charlie said the same of Tony, the Rt.Hon. Mr. Blair would indeed have a very serious chance of success in a libel suit against the Prince (assuming that there isn't some royal exemption or something). The reason here is that Prince Charles' comments bear weight in the eyes of the public and they influence opinion. That opinion is later a factor in determining whether or not Mr. Blair gets to be PM or not.
So, in a nutshell, unless you can prove that the DVD-CCA's comments are specifically targeted at you, unfounded and have caused irreparable harm to your career, then you'll have to continue sailing about in your rubber dinghy. =)
--
I seem to remember somewhere that you can be held accountable to claims made during a trial. IANAL, but I remember that you can sue for false accusations and the like made during a case once the case has finished. I also believe the extent to which you can claim depends on the outcome of the initial trial.
No, not everyone is going to rise up and over through the corporate rule, but Sigsnal 11 has a point there...exagerated as it may be.
Look at the state of our country (I'm refering to the US, I can't speak for others). Could this country become anymore ignorant. There are many intelligent people in this country, but, well, "never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers". Personally I feel that the general population can only stay 'dummbed-down' for so long before something happens. Something big. Not nessecarily a revolution (at least not in a violent sense), but at least in an "intellectual awakening" for lack of a better term.
OK, I'm done babbaling. Gotta remember to drink *LESS* before posting on /.
I'm really REALLY dissapointed in the big business these days. Before, at least big business had the balls to play by the rules. Sure, it's fucked that 2600 gets found guilty of even linking to DeCSS, but at least everyone was playing fair.
This is bogus, and it makes the open-source movement look like a bunch of criminals. While not libelous, i have to say that i am severely perturbed at their notion of economics.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
The real question is, when will those in the Open Source (and/or Free Software) movement(s) learn to take the new power in their hands,
Ummm... when they become as Machiavellian as the other guys?
I was just itching for an excuse to say "Machiavellian". I hope I spelled it right.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Suggestion: stop writing posts about how this is wrong. Everyone on slashdot knows this. All you're doing is preaching to the converted.
Anyway, this is a motion filed by a plaintiff, and was never meant to be construed as objective fact. Judges know to look at these things very, very carefully. Besides which, if you read the actual brief it's mostly about whether the court has jurisdiction over the defendant. It really doesn't have much to do with their factual error regarding the nature of the "Open Source" movement.
--
Makes me pretty sure that they simply do not understand the meaning of the term "open source".
Trying to pin a label on a segment of the populace that think everything on the internet should be had for free must be really hard for these lawyers without clue-one.
"What are we going to say, 'Hackers'? No, that doesn't sound right."
"Oh, I know... what is that group that thinks everything should be free, even Microsoft Windows? Oh yeah, 'Open Source'. Use that."
"Good thinking. See, this is why we make the *big* bucks!"
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
Maybe this way Iran can finally hang all of the Hollywood moguls for violating their laws on propiety and morality. After all, Hollywood is making their material available over the 'net ...
+--------------------- You idiot! I told you we were facing the wrong way!
Of course, the MPAA have bought as many senators as they have local politicians, so it might not help. But on the whole, federal appeals courts have been stronger defenders of the Net than others.
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
Also, court filings are usually made under the penalty of perjury. Submitting deliberately false filings to the effect that I'm a goatfucker when they know I'm not could land them with fines or jail.
:)
True. However, the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the filing was deliberately malicious lies on you, and that's pretty damned difficult to prove for anything less blatant than "goatfucker"
You do _NOT_ get jurisdiction over every single human being in the entire world merely because they post something on the 'net.
Well, they're not arguing that, they're arguing that a CA court has jurisdiction over another US resident. Things like RICO set a fairly strong legal standard in support of their argument, so I won't be surprised in the slightest if the court upholds this.
Now, what you bring up is the next logical step. Copyright violation of a U.S. held copyright is not a crime in any country which has not signed the Berne Convention. So posting DeCSS code, or the movies themselves straight from Hollywood, is 100% legal in, say, Kyrgyzstan.
What's going to be interesting is to see what the movie industry does when pissed off people start putting up sites like www.getyourdecsscodehere.kg, www.firstrunmoviesforfree.kg, etc. etc...
Hell, if *I* ran Napster, and *I* had that $15 mil they got, www.napster.kg would be running now...
I completely agree - getting the companies that supply the big studios to write letters of "concern" regarding "innacurate and degrading comments about us" could have a fantasic effect.
I only hope that said companies would not be put off by the comments (ie not wish the negative publicity of drawing attention to the fact that they are part of a community that the public is increasingly viewing as bad and wrong.)
As some bright spark pointed out (#443), the people that should really be taking our message to the MPAA are the big open-source baddies, like SGI, VA Linux, Penguin Computing, IBM etc. that Hollywood actually depends on to some extent. :-)
I've made a start by finding SGI's feedback section, and have posted to both their open source and community areas. Might I humbly suggest that others also write to this and the other companies. As he pointed out, just a few letters from these companies may have significantly more effect than hundreds written by us.
And to those who work at these companies - if you can get away with writing to the MPAA on company letterhead, please do so!
If anyone is interested, my letter went something like this:
As a highly-regarded company and a leader in Open Source software, I thought SGI might be concerned (as I am) at recent claims that tar SGI and others, made by the MPAA in their recent opposition brief in one of the DVD cases.
An example is the opening sentence of the brief: "Defendant Pavlovich is a leader in the so-called "open source" movement, which is dedicated to the proposition that material, copyrighted or not, should be made available over the Internet for free."
As SGI is not, in fact, dedicated to piracy - indeed is highly esteemed in Hollywood - I feel that a simple letter of concern from your company to the MPAA would be an enormous (and greatly appreciated) contribution to our efforts to maintain the reputation of "open source" as a commercially acceptable practise.
A copy of the brief is at http://cryptome.org/dvd-v-521-opq.htm
Sincerely,
J. Fisher
Lead Designer
eCOSM Ltd.
For those interested, here's a related story in Business Week: Hollywood vs. the Hackers vs. Free Speech.
This opening sentence doesn't look like it has much to do with the case in question, or the arguments presented. From my understanding, LiViD uses no copyrighted source code, the only questionable material would be any lines related to DeCSS.
Correct me if I'm wrong - but CSS isn't copyrighted is it? It's a trade secret, right?
So, the purpose of this opening statement IMHO is to do nothing more than 'plant the seeds' as it were - laying down in the legal community that "open source" is wrong, and something to be fought.
This could definitely be a bad thing.
-Medgur
If you remember the news stories from the last time congress pandered to the corps and extended copyright laws another 20 years, I think you will catch my drift.
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
The phone numbers are there for the lawyers. Call them.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
...what does Hollywood know about the computer industry?
Martee
~~~~~~~~~~
Martee
Slander n 1. law: The utterance of defamatory statements injurious to the reputation or well-being of a person. 2 A malicious statement or report...
It appears to me that by issuing a false legal brief about the open source movement that this lawyer has left himself wide open to being sued for slander.
Of course I am also sure that lawyers have exempted themselves from that sort of thing; after all prosecutors do it all the time.
Comments?
--
The law, 100's of millions of lines of code - not one line of which has ever been tested to see if it works
..and they have no clue that they're opening the pandora's box of copyright issues...
You know, this is one of the most interesting things I've observed. Cases Like Napster vs. Metallica, Napster vs. RIAA, MPAA arresting Jon Johanson, MPAA sueing 2600, etc....
When Metallica sued Napster they metaphorically shot themselves in the foot. I know so many people who found out what napster was due to publicity. Suddenly, people say "I can get music off the net???" Then of course with the threat of Napster being shutdown, I hear Peter Jennings come on ABC News telling one and all about Napster. Metallica gave more credibility and more publicity to Napster than they probably intended.... Now they are dealing with the aftermath.
As far as DeCSS goes... well the same is true. If the MPAA had not jumped the gun they would not have brought so much attention to DeCSS. Hell, I didn't learn what DeCSS even was until I read articles about Johansons arrest. The 2600 case is no different as it is mentioned on the news as well. Now people can go to their web site and look at plain text hyperlinks to DeCSS source.
The suits still don't get it... They are trying to fight their battles the old-fashioned way and now with the advent of the net, it's just not working. The more something is attacked, the more publicity it is given. The more publicity something is given, the more people will know about it... Now, the more people know about something the more they will want it and continue to want to know more.
Well suits... now you are digging your own grave. You are fighting something that is finally bigger than you and you don't know how to handle it. Just think how fast information travels in today's wired world. Nothing can be kept a secret anymore. MPAA, if you want to sue anybody at all sue the US govt. Yes, thats right... If it weren't for stupid encryption laws restricting strong export grade crypto, your 40bit encryption could have bit 128bit encryption and thus harder to crack.
A perfect way to copy digital movies to prevent use of the evil foolish system. At some fundamental level output has to work on an analog basis right? Well simply create a monitor to take account of what pixels are created when and at what position. Then correlate this information into a decoded presentation. Same for any program. Get a logic analyzer to work on it. Eventually success.
Respond to s
Speaking of high-profile open source advocates, anyone remember that Al Gore's web site contained an HTML comment supporting Open Source (along with a traditional copyright notice -- go figure). This could become a campaign issue, or just more proof that the only difference between the brains of politicians and of movie stars is the time zone.
That the MPAA can afford really good crack. `AC
I am going to try fiddling with the code to see if I can get it to print attractively on one sheet of paper. I figure I can do a certain amount of this without going to jail, as long as _I_ don't stand in front of Blockbuster handing them out.
How about mailing copies to your Senators and representatives, asking if they would be good enough to simply keep the copy despite the fact that keeping that information is a felony crime? Might make for good sound bites, politicians like to be seen doing dramatic stuff like holding a press conference to say,
Now, how would that be? We need some politicians to recognize how media-friendly this situation can be to them.Do you really think there's a more repressive regime than the US?
Did you know that Americans stand a 1/5 chance of going to jail at some point in their lives? If your so unfortunate as to be a black American, you're closer to a 1/3 chance of incarceration.
America has an incarceration rate of over 645/100000 annually. That's atrociously high.
Of course, the reason so many Americans are in jail is because the US government is running an ever-losing "war on drugs," mainly because it's highly profitable to a few people in power.
Alcohol kills six times more people than illegal drugs do, and smoking kills 30 times as many. But both remain legal. Speaking of pot, didja know that if you're a whiteboy caught with an ounce, you'll probably get nailed for possession; whereas if you're black, you're inevitably going to get charged with dealing. Blacks are fucked whenever they encounter the law.
But, let's not talk drugs: it's too controversial. Let's talk politics -- or, rather, not being allowed to be political.
Did you know that a third of the US population can't name a single first-amendment right? That'd include some biggies, like "freedom of speech" and
"freedom to peaceably assemble."
Certainly the LA and Philadelphia police don't know about those rights. There are people still in jail, nearly a month after the the GOP convention in Philly (http://www.phillyimc.org/) and the LA police beat the living shit out of folk who were protesting at the Democrat's convention.
Oh, this is just too depressing. I've got to stop writing about it... other than China, it could be difficult to find a more repressive regime than America.
--
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
And they are deeply threatened by Silicon Valley. Not so much economically - there's money is crap film and bad music that will never go away - but from the fact that silicon has become sexy in a way that celluloid used to be. (I know that's catch-phrasey, but hey.)
Don't expect them to get it. They never will, because if they did, their fragile ego-structures would crumble into dust.
I haven't been to see a major, Hollywood film since November of last year.
I won't ever see their dreck again.
I also do not own, nor ever will own a DVD player. Perhaps, a DVD-RAM someday, but only if it works with OpenBSD and Linux and only if I get source to the drivers! Hell, I might write the drivers myself.
I'm sick of these corporate bastards and their lawyers. They try to make up for their own mediocrity by suing everything in sight.
But, this does prove one thing: the Internet truly is an amazing and unprecedented invention. It will wreak havoc with the law because of questions like this one, here: who has jurisdiction when some country's laws are broken.
I don't know that any laws were broken in this case. Why must they always parrot the "this software aids copying line" when it's clear that all we want is software to play their stinking movies? They're just pissed the software was written without using their reference implementation and therefore without a license fee having been paid. All I can say is, get used to it, boys! The world as you knew it is coming to an end.
Just be sure to wear the gold uniform when you beam down -- you know what happens when you wear the red one.
That should be
Just Another Illegal Link
g htrider/DVDEncrypt.html
- screw_the_feds
/ myhomepage
m l
h tm
t ml
h tm
e akingnews.html
s s.html
e rs_are_scum-sucking_pigs
C SS.html
1 415/decss.htm
5 /DVD
r ibute.html
S S
o n/2819
/ 6188
9 2
2 7/2600/dvd.htm
/ 3971
/ 8762
s
d /3587/dvd
d vd.html
r or.html
/ 2303/DVD.html
S
s .html
s .html
i sh/jurisdiction/otherstuff.htm
ftp://ftp.u.washington.edu/public/arobs/css
ftp://sun.rl.odessa.ua/pub/decss
http://130.111.75.63:142
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[...]
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http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Stati
http://www.geocities.com/Shapierian
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hardware
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Modem/41
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Ridge/37
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Software
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5258/decss.html
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Exhibit/5771/decs
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Undergroun
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dome/4021/
http://www.geocities.com/cold_dvd
http://www.geocities.com/corporatemindcontrol
http://www.geocities.com/dba3297
http://www.geocities.com/decss2
http://www.geocities.com/decss_2000
http://www.geocities.com/decss_forever
http://www.geocities.com/decss_mirror
http://www.geocities.com/djph3ad/decss
http://www.geocities.com/donquix0te
http://www.geocities.com/duck_ohm
http://www.geocities.com/dvdcracked
http://www.geocities.com/dvdfightback
http://www.geocities.com/dvdrevolution
http://www.geocities.com/dvdsuit/dvd
http://www.geocities.com/dvdthings
http://www.geocities.com/epoxy_css
http://www.geocities.com/fairusedecss
http://www.geocities.com/fr33dvd
http://www.geocities.com/getyourdvd
http://www.geocities.com/ghaniali
http://www.geocities.com/iwantdvd
http://www.geocities.com/k4dwi/dvd
http://www.geocities.com/k4wi/dvd
http://www.geocities.com/madasian2000/decss_mir
http://www.geocities.com/mastaflame
http://www.geocities.com/meluchwj
http://www.geocities.com/mydefiance
http://www.geocities.com/necready433
http://www.geocities.com/necready433/dvd
http://www.geocities.com/neurosis_dvd
http://www.geocities.com/opendvdecss
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/computer
http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/6752
http://www.geocities.com/solidex
http://www.geocities.com/verruktesten
http://www.geocities.com/warrdragon_2000
http://www.geocities.com/watice2
http://www.geocities.com/whackmol
http://www.geocities.com/xtridzz
http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~awirth1/decss
http://www.glue.umd.edu/~castongj
http://www.hackunlimited.com/dvd
http://www.hakor.com/DVD
http://www.hellnet.org.uk/decss.htm
http://www.hobbiton.org/~tpm
http://www.hote.qc.ca/dvd
http://www.hotsoupmedia.com/decss
http://www.idrive.com/decss/web
http://www.iinet.net.au/~matlhdam/DeCSS
http://www.image.dk/~mbp
http://www.imsoelite.com/dvd
http://www.infa.abo.fi/~raine/pub/software/DeCS
http://www.ironbrick.com/decss
http://www.ismokecrack.com
http://www.jabberwocky.eyep.net/decss.html
http://www.k4dwi.net/dvd
http://www.kentroad.demon.co.uk/decss
http://www.kiss.uni-lj.si/~k4ef1890/css
http://www.kki.net.pl/~rsr66/css
http://www.koek.net/dvd
http://www.krackdown.com/decss
http://www.lemuria.org/DeCSS
http://www.lifesolo.com/bin
http://www.linuxnerd.net/decss
http://www.linuxstart.com/~kvance/projects/decs
http://www.linuxstart.com/~sys_admin
http://www.lockpicking.nl/decss
http://www.mafkees.com/dvd
http://www.mayday2000.org.uk/decss.htm
http://www.members.tripod.com/dkdecss
http://www.mindspring.com/~coueys
http://www.mindspring.com/~stonethrower
http://www.multimania.com/sxpert/decss
http://www.mykle.com/DVD
http://www.myshed.net/dvd
http://www.nacs.net/~vodak/dvd
http://www.netby.net/Oest/Hvalfiskegade/jana/cs
http://www.netspace.net.au/~gromit
http://www.networksplus.net/blogg
http://www.neurosis.org/dvd
http://www.nsnva.pvt.k12.va.us/~abc
http://www.ntsmedia.com/decss
http://www.nvhs.nl/decss
http://www.nwu.edu/people/ldb/decss.html
http://www.oblivion.net/~amar/css
http://www.oksanen.net/ville/this_is/under/Finn
http://www.olen.net/deCSS
http://www.oz.net/~tvaughan
http://www.pages.drexel.edu/~jer24
http://www.penismightier.com/weishaupt/dvd.html
http://www.pepper-land.net
http://www.philter.com/DVD
http://www.pippy.itgo.com
http://www.posexperts.com.pl/people/wrobell/css
http://www.projectbullshit.com/decss.html
http://www.projectgamma.com/deccs
http://www.qix.net/~pheonix/decss.html
http://www.ratol.fi/~asiipola
http://www.reapers.org
http://www.redgnatt.homestead.com
http://www.redrival.com/chimx/computers.html
http://www.robotslave.net
http://www.rpi.edu/~jettea/dvd.html
http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/~marsie
http://www.scwc.net/DeCSS
http://www.sealteamsix.com/phagan
http://www.sk3tch.com/freedecss
http://www.smackfu.com/decss
http://www.spin.ch/~rca/decss
http://www.stanford.edu/~drumz/decss
http://www.stupendous.org
http://www.subcor.com
http://www.swcp.com/~ampere
http://www.tar.hu/decss
http://www.teamnismo.com/2600
http://www.underwhelm.org/decss
http://www.users.on.net/johnm/DeCSS
http://www.uwm.edu/~zachkarp
http://www.vent-soft.com/dvd
http://www.vexed.net/CSS
http://www.visi.com/~adept/liberty
http://www.vulgar.net/dvd
http://www.warren-wilson.edu/~echerry/dvd
http://www.webnx.com/tuna
http://www.webzsite.com/decss
http://www.wizardworkshop.com
http://www.wolfpaw.net/~decss
http://www.worldcity.nl/~frank/dvd
http://www.wwcn.org/~grit/free
http://www.xs4all.nl/~oracle/dvd
http://www.xs4all.nl/~rasch/dvd
http://www.zeal.net/~pyro/DeCSS
http://www.zip.com.au/~zzz/dvd
http://www.zone.ee/DeCSS
http://www3.50megs.com/dvd4free
Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)
Let me see if I follow this logic:
/etc/shadow file on my computer.
By providing a link to this, this, or even this, I'm committing an injurious act to interests in the state of California.
Never mind that I legally purchased every single one of my DVDs. Never mind that I legally purchased the necessary hardware to play those DVDs, and that the DVD CCA got their cut from my purchases. Never mind that DeCSS "circumvents" CSS the same way entering my password "circumvents" the
By aiding and abetting an open source programmer, I'm working to steal the intellectual property of Hollywood? I injured consumer electronics and computer manufacturers in California (whose products I legally purchased in order to be able to use the software player LiVid and the CSS decrypter DeCSS)?
If I have, then come get me .
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
In such a forum, your opponents do you a favor each and every time they overreach. When they misstate the facts, particularly in so relevant and material a manner, they discredit themselves.
And in such a scenario, credibility is EVERYTHING.
When my opponents misstate the truth, they open avenues I never had before, and give me ways to win even when I have lost. Indeed, when you have a strong case, this is the greatest risk: learning to constrain yourself from overreaching.
This is cause for cheer. Relax, and look forward to reading the reply brief.
If you can't provide a mirror for DeCSS yourself, perhaps you could at least show your support by displaying or linking to the DeCSS Support Ribbon. You can display it on your page, served by my server, with the following line of HTML:
<img src="http://goingware.com/decss/DVDRibbon.gif" alt="DeCSS Support Ribbon" width="85" height="138">
Remember folks, this isn't just about being able to watch movies anywhere you want on any OS you want. It's about being free from official government repression for speaking your mind, and if this case stands our precious freedom will suffer greatly for it - not freedom to consume products, but freedom to live as people with human rights, safe from official retribution for holding an opinion.
While Jack Valenti and the MPAA may be violating antitrust law and established Supreme Court precedents of Fair Use, Judge Kaplan is the far worse offender for having violated his oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America.
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
Personally, I really don't care to have my work go to support these assholes. I might have to roll my own version of the GPL which specifically disallows anyone directly working for an MPAA related studio from using my code. It might even stand up in court if the UCITA catches on in more places.
Now I'm off to see if I can find someone who has access to the Lexus Nexus to dig up some background dirt on some Hollywood lawyers...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I mean honestly it's the middle of the night and I was able to come up with those just off the top of my head. I get the feeling I am feeding a troll here but I just can't stop myself. Must be a good troll...
Anyway about this part: But, let's not talk drugs: it's too controversial. Let's talk politics -- or, rather, not being allowed to be political. Did you know that a third of the US population can't name a single first-amendment right? That'd include some biggies, like "freedom of speech" and "freedom to peaceably assemble."
That is indeed sad but it doesn't mean we are not being allowed to be political, it means we are generally stupid and poorly informed. You are drawing the wrong conclusion. The government is not engaged in a campaign to hide the constitution or anything like that, it's just that no one cares anymore...
Never.
That's why that law is such a joke.
--
-- My comment is above.
No, "malicious prosecution" applies in a civil proceeding, too. It refers to the case being prosecuted maliciously, not the defendant. What you are thinking of, by the way, is "abuse of process."
I agree with your legal analysis of the jurisdiction question, but this is certainly not malicious prosecution. There is a huge difference in collecting for a tort from someone who knows he is wrong as distinct from someone who merely happens to be wrong.
The pleading on Cryptome (opposing the motion to quash for lack of jurisdiction) is quite strange. One of the issues here is not simply multiplicity of proceedings, but an actual multiplicity of laws. This goes to the heart of the Interstate Commerce Clause. That is, suppose someone in Texas takes an action which is legal in Texas and illegal in California? The pleading essentially asserts that an aggrieved party in California would have the right to call the party in Texas into the state courts of California to answer for the action. That would be very, very dangerous. Insterstate commerce would grind to an abrupt halt if such a practice were to be allowed.
Because people with money are somehow more believable, more respectable, more legit that the rest of us.
We need some established, filthy rich, vocal support to counter this crap. That, and perjury charges...
My mom is not a Karma whore!
Yes, there are a lot of countries more oppresive than America. China, Afghanistan, sure. But even Great Britain is worse... if you don't think constant video surveillance on all of its citizens counts, then I don't think I understand your use of the word.
The "abuse" at the hands of the Philidelphia police on the GOP protestors is a notorious hoax. A horde of reporters at the convention interviewed people in the jail and couldn't find anything worse than "I bumped my head entering the jail wagon"
Your whole post reeks of sophistry... You say "1/3 of Americans can't name a single 1st amendment right" -- I'll put 20$ on it that the question was "Name the 1st Amendment." instead of "Have you ever heard of Freedom of Speech?" Typical way to influence statistics.
As is the 1/5th incarceration rate, and 1/3 for black. Bull-fucking-shit. I think the arrest rate for blacks is 1/10, and for whites quite a bit lower than that. Not considering recalcitrant offenders is a complelety blockheaded way of saying 1/5th of Americans will be behind bars. And you know what? A number of people get arrested that don't get imprisoned. My roommate was arrested and fingerprinted for being drunk in public, but was not even brought before a judge.
The rising incarceration rate, at least in California, is the three strikes law, which imprisons those who would normally walk. This points to more enforcement than more crime.
I think all my sophistry alerts went off on your post... even saying that "Alchohol kills 6x as many people as illegal drugs" is complete bullshit, since you aren't considering the facts that more people drink than use drugs. Thats like me saying that there is discrimination of people with grey hair because more of them die of heart attacks than people with dark hair...
Pfft.
Obviously, a perjury case (won or lost) would be a huge slap in the credibility of the MPAA, and perhaps even dent the "We're the Good Guys!" lie.
Reading all the comments, a defamation case faces some pretty fatal problems. I think we should turn our attention to perjury - also difficult, but plausible. Garbus and co (working on another case) have screeds and screeds of documents from the MPAA, which include selected "incriminating" logs of the community which (despite the bias) almost certainly include enough information about the community to be good evidence. The question is - can those documents be accessed for such purposes? (My suspicion is no).
The MPAA has clearly done enough (one-sided) research into open-source that they do know better, and there will be documentation to that effect somewhere. How can we go about finding it? Is anyone with access to MPAA documentation (or working for the MPAA) able and willing to "leak" such a document?
They boasted of the thousands of pages of information they had that was written by the community. That almost certainly means we're talking perjury, if we can only get our hands on their documents.
Jared Bobrow
Robert G. Sugarman
Jeffrey L. Kessler (there are a couple of others whose emails are not listed - I'd guess they are:
Christopher Cox
Edward Burke
Jonathan Shapiro
Why not write to them and let them know what you think their slander?. Or you could fax 'em on (650) 854-3713 or (212) 310-8007.
What you're saying only holds water if the US states are sovereign nations rather than local government. The sovereignty of the states has never been more than a polite legal fiction, a fortiori since 'prox 1865.
Panama, mentioned elsewhere in this thread, is similarly not genuinely sovereign - it, and assorted other post-colonial flyspecks, are as sovereign as their former rulers and/or powerful neighbours let them be and not a whit more.
Now, if someone wanted to sue me, British Citizen, in California, the most they'd get out of me is a polite letter to the judge pointing out that I ain't submitting to the jurisdiction.
-- AndrewD
A Maze of Twisty Little Laws, All Different.
Linux was used for rendering 3-D for the movie titanic, and most likely in other movies.
I wonder if Hollywood realises that they're accessories after the fact.
So you have this MASSIVE decentralized movement consisting of between 80 and 300 thousand people, depending on who's figures you go by, and they keep a low profile. Sure, you get a few lawsuits here, alittle press there, but considering the magnitude of what we are doing, it's suprising this hasn't been making the headlines for weeks on end - it's far bigger than the OJ Simpson trial, the Year 2000 New Year's Bash, or, well.. any event since the start of the millenium.
No, I think they're strutting around, being the pompous asses that they are, and they have no clue that they're opening the pandora's box of copyright issues - if there has ever been an organized attempt to take down corporations, this is it. Demonstrations in Seattle and the NAFTA protests before that pale in comparison to the damage a successful attack on IP would do in this country. And rather than taking us seriously, they're calling us a bunch of immature punk kids with a bent on going against the grain and who have a keyboard. That is not at all who they are dealing with. They are dealing with the Borg - a decentralized movement with no leaders, and a common cause. How the hell are they going to combat an idea? Imprison every developer in the world? Who will keep the e-commerce infrastructure going, or the "dot commies"?
Heh, it's the other way around guys, you're being a bunch of arrogant suits and you're about to get your ass handed back to you by a bunch of hippies who do nothing but convert caffeine into code all day. I'm going to love watching this..
Defendant Pavlovich is a leader in the so-called 'open source' movement, which is dedicated to the proposition that material, copyrighted or not, should be made available over the Internet for free."
Open Source/Free Software nitpicking aside, Open Source -- ahem -- Open Source(tm) is a trademark of the Open Source(tm) Initiative. To say that the Open Source(tm) movement actively encourages criminal activity is defamatory and actionable and demonstrably does harm to the Open Source(tm) trademark and the interests of the businesses that endorse it.
At least, I know if a bunch of Hollywood lawyers called a press conference to accuse freakin' IBM of actively encouraging criminal activity, seismographs on the other side of the planet would be able to detect the rumbling herd of bulk-cloned attorneys pouring from the sluice gates of the vast monolith that is Big Blue.
So maybe the OSI can get their lawyers -- uh, lawyer -- to get off his duff and act like a real corporate attorney.
--
Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
BTW, Im wearing my illegal copyleft T-Shirt right now.
The quote in the article sounds more like a description of the warez community.
When I hear people say "all software should be free" I think of the Free Software movement.
When I hear people say "free sofware can sometimes be a lot better than commercial sofware" I think of the Open Source movement.
Of these three movements, it's rather ironic that they should choose to slam Open Source, since it's the most conservative of the three. One is apt to believe that businessmen protecting their commercial interests are conservatives. OTOH, Hollywood is actually full of liberals.
We may be witnessing them being torn between their liberalism and their desire to make a buck.
Actually, this falls in line with something I've been saying for a while: "The left doesn't know what's right anymore".
For example, you used to be able to count on the left supporting labor. But now you've got Bill Clinton and Al Gore supporting trade with China. That's certainly confused a lot of trade unionists.
Now we've got the Free Software movement, certainly a creature of the left, being opposed by Hollywood liberals. Conservatives, take note. Here is an opportunity to divide and conquer.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
I really think some high profile people should sue the MPAA over this particular piece of fiction. It's incredibly insulting.
... and there's nothing you can do.
Legal filings are specifically exempted from liability of allegation in virtually all jurisdictions inheriting from British common law. The theory is that this prevents the target of a lawsuit crushing the plaintiff with their greater legal resources and so forth.
In practice, this means they can say Open Source advocates are crooks and goatfuckers if they feel like it
As we know, the USA, or more precisely, Hollywood, always needs a Bad Guy.
:)
1970's - The Red Commie Threat.
1980's - Those evil arab nations that sell us our oil and have corrupt military leaders.
1990's - Drug runners (with links to evil S. American nations with corrupt military leaders).
Late 90's - Those terrible two-dimensional Terrorists whose sole purpose in life is to kill as many Americans as possible. Why this is, we're not told (perhaps we might sympathise with them?). They're just born that way apparently.
Coming up next - those evil computer thieves and hackers who wield greater threat to your lives than all the above combined.
In most movies to date, hackers have usually been the good guys, and bad hackers are usually just opposition for the good hackers to defeat. Movies in which a Joe Average hero is besieged on all sides by a foe with unlimited resources have usually had the foe played by things like intelligence services, corrupt institutions and the like.
I suspect that as Hollywood execs in their isolated circles hear more and more about how great a threat is posed by these computer people, and as the net remains a sexy background for movies, but familiar to more people, we may start to see more movies in which we get to play the archvillain, whether we want to or not. And we'll have powers we never dreamed of (like hacking Russian spy satellites in order to take telephoto pictures of your credit card number as you pay for something, or your wife undressing*. Actually, they would have to be US satellites because Hollywood is currently dedicated to the idea that all Russian technology is stuck in the 50's)
Hmmm, writing this incredibly 2d summary of Hollywood movies yet having it so aptly sum up so many movies sorta rams home how numbingly stupid the films are.
Harlequin - Archvillain for hire...
hire details
(And offended at the idea of working for hollywood against my will
*Telephoto pictures of your wife undressing, not pictures of you paying your wife to undress...
Totally correct. The Internet is a dangerous resource, because you cannot control it. Someone in another country has rights that you don't have control over, because they have different laws.
The result? They sue, to try to regain control because big business sees people's speech as damaging their profits.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know any sites that provide movies copied from DVDs using DeCSS? I've seen a lot of avi's and mpgs copied from VHS, and a few copied from DVDs using the older copiers, but I've never seen anyone post or provide (IRC, Gnutella, etc) a _good_ copy of a DVD. They're just too big!
Even admitting that I don't search really hard for .vob files, how many can there be? They're too big to download easily, too big to keep many, and too rare to show up in the many places I visit.
So where the hell is the $4 billion dollars of loss (or whatever they're claiming) coming from?
Jeff
Fact: Some Open Source Advocates post copyrighted materials on the internet without permission or compensation to the author.
Conclusion: Open Source is about publishing other peoples copyrighted materials on the internet without permission or compensation to the author.
Isn't this like saying....
Fact: Some filmmakers use narcotics in violation of US law.
Conclusion: Filmmaking is about advocating and using illegal narcotics.
Which would continue what has been a generational shift away from group-think, when three channels were enough for anyone, towards individuality where 100 channels are no longer enough. The Internet clearly has the capability to increase the number of channels, to the point where if I don't like YOUR reality-based show I'll just produce my own.
The next question is how long society will tolerate this before reverting back to conformity and three "channels" again. If our only common experience is that we were lied to by the same politicians and corporations, then when a real crisis occurs, our fractured society will urgently look to find commonality wherever it can, including in its entertainment.
For more on this topic, please see The Fourth Turning by Strauss and Howe.
--
Legal filings are specifically exempted from liability of allegation in virtually all jurisdictions inheriting from British common law. The theory is that this prevents the target of a lawsuit crushing the plaintiff with their greater legal resources and so forth.
Let's not forget that malicious prosecution is still illegal. If their lawsuit is baseless and the entire intent is to harass or defame me, then it's unlikely this exemption will apply. Also, court filings are usually made under the penalty of perjury. Submitting deliberately false filings to the effect that I'm a goatfucker when they know I'm not could land them with fines or jail. Again, for the protection of the little guy.
--
Does narcissism count as a hobby? --Shawn Latimer
That would make crooks out of IBM, RedHat, Dell, Sun... oh wow... lots of major corporations. Thousands of people. God no. Quickly, lock 'em all up and throw away the key before this gets out of hand!
;)
*sarcasm mode off*
I wonder if Hollywood realizes that this is bigger than they think.
------------------
... I've got a good target to whack.
I'm going to leave the Open Source slurs aside, since they're not really relevant (though, as one previous poster pointed out, they hurt the MPAA since it's a direct loss of credibility).
They're misquoting (or should I say, misusing) the case law precedent. The case laws covers only:
Also, I'd like to point out one further thing that I find unusual of this whole thing:
This is a civil case about trade secrets. In order to prove a trade secret case, you have to show proof that the accused gained information about the secret through unlawful means. As of right now, reverse engineering is not an illegal means, no matter what the shrink-wrap says on a product. Right now, shrink-wrap licenses are unenforcable and invalid, period.
Also, the DCMA doesn't apply to this case. Now, depending on the rulings about the DCMA, making LiViD might be illegal, but the methods of discovering how to make LiViD (that is, discovering how CSS worked) are not illegal, even under a strict DCMA ruling.
This case is strictly about reverse-engineering a trade secret, and the MPAA has absolutely no leg to stand on, other than perhaps having more money to blow on lawyers.
Fundamentally, I'd counter-sue for malicious prosecution (that's the criminal law term, there's a civil law equivalent, but I can't remember the phrase), since the suit is prima facia invalid.
Fuck them with a red hot poker.
-Erik
There are always four sides to every story: your side, their side, the truth, and what really happened.
But this time, this is just plain stupid.
You do _NOT_ get jurisdiction over every single human being in the entire world merely because they post something on the 'net.
If you do, then we're in trouble when a more repressive regime than the US attempts to indict us in the US for crimes against their nation elsewhere.
This is seeing the trees but not the forest, people. You get jurisdiction over someone by _actively_ doing something involving the forum state. This could be something as simple as putting your information into interstate commerce - but the idea that putting something on the net, for free, is in interstate commerce probably violates a half dozen treaties, not to mention the entire concept of jurisdiction.
(IANAL, usual rules of don't bother fact checking this because I haven't either. And don't rely on this for anything - consult a real lawyer before fighting a megacorporation with tentacles all over the world just like HYDRA)
This would be unbelievable if we hadn't already seen just how mindless the MPAA and CCA have been in the past.
I just skimmed the brief, and it could probably be considered defamation on the FSF, lots of people like Linus, ESR, various people like Bob Young, even Tim O'Reilly . . . Basically, it accuses anyone who claims to be involved with the `open source' movement of supporting theft of intellectual property. This might be my non-legal mind misunderstanding what they were saying, but it's pretty damned blatant, as far as I'm concerned.
I really think some high profile people should sue the MPAA over this particular piece of fiction. It's incredibly insulting.
On another note, if they really do think this about the open source world, it would explain why they're being so paranoid about us - they seem to think we really are out to get them, however we can.
Personally I'm not, and I don't think you could say that this particular group of people really agrees on anything enough to say that we're out to get someone . . .
In any case, this is an incredibly dumb document, put out by a group that, it is becoming increasingly clear, is completely disconnected from anythin that remotely resembles the real world. I think the MPAA should be taken out the back and shot (metaphorically speaking, of course . . . ;-) They're becoming more dangerous than useful, IMHO.
himi
--
My very own DeCSS mirror.
Kind of like before the invention of the radio .....
Some people, like Eric Corley, are acting by defying the MPAA and risking financial ruin if they lose the DeCSS case.
Some, like the Electronic Frontier Foundation are working to preserve our rights in the networked era by defending brave folks like Corley.
Even with attorneys working pro-bono, mounting a legal defense is terribly expensive (just think of the cost of long-distance calls and plane fare for the participants). One way you can make a difference is by joining the EFF, which you can do with a credit card at the following link:
https://www.eff.org/support/joineff.html
(You can also mail in a check.)
If you do nothing else to work for the cause of justice in the DeCSS case, at least join the EFF. It will only take a few minutes, and you can give what you're comfortable with.
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
https://www.eff.org/support/joineff.html
And if you want to read about why this matters, click here:
http://www.goingware.com/decss
It's not about watching movies on Linux anymore.
It's about your right to say what you want in a free society. Eric Corley is a member of the press, and 2600's web site is his publication. Judge Kaplan has just permanently enjoined Corley from practicing unrestrained journalism.
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
...at least do it right. Free Software is a "movement". Open Source is just a study in economics.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Well, with the case against 2600 surely going to appeal, and now this, I'm sure the EFF will have it's hands full.
I sent them $100 a while ago in a fit of temporary wealth. Maybe it's time to do it again. Yeah, I also bought Copyleft's anti-DVDCCA shirt (someone at work actually thought my posession of it was illegal without even caring whether such a law was just -- scary. Since I'm not in Judge Kaplan's judisdiction, I'm sure this isn't the case.)
Better yet, perhaps it's time to send, oh, I don't know $20 or $30 a month to the EFF on a regular basis. Anyone know if they accept ongoing contributions via credit card?
FWIF, I don't own a DVD player (and won't buy one unless I can view movies with free software), don't collect MP3s of copyright works, and will actually purchase a CD for one song, if I like it (though I'd prefer if the artist got more of my money for it.) Heck, I've purchased some CDs because I liked the cover art! (And have usually liked the music to boot.) I've boycotted movies (and amazon.com because of their stupid patent) for about six months now (not perfectly -- it's hard with a 7 year old, but cutting consumption is the important thing).
The frightening thing about this is that MPJDGI (Most People Just Don't Get It). They equate the internet as some kind of "interactive TV" in terms of "serving content", instead of a place where you get and share what you wish. An ignorant mob is a dangerous mob.
Also, the issues are so obvbious to "us" that often we don't even realize that "they" don't get it. Ever explain something to a wanna-be code jockey, only to have them program some real garbage? That's how dealing with "the masses" on these issues is.
While the DVD CCA, and MPAA have legitimate beefs against copyright violation, I fear that a great deal of baby is going to get thrown out with that particular brand of bathwater before this issue settles down.
Rene S. Hollan
You could've hired me.
Interesting that the DVDCCA is bashing open source (ok, they make some very negative deragatory comments about "open source" which seemed to mock it.), when they use it. I did an HTTP request to dvdcca.org, and they apparently use Apache 1.3.3 on Unix. Try it yourself, if you'd like. Funny, considering the hypocrisy post earlier today.
"The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent." --Carl Sagan
MPAA is missing something: the California Trade Secrets Act provides a complete defense:
They say:
And here is the defense, at eff.org:
CALIFORNIA CIVIL CODE : SECTION 3426.1
3426. This title may be cited as the Uniform Trade Secrets Act.
3426.1. As used in this title, unless the context requires otherwise:
(a) "Improper means" includes theft, bribery, misrepresentation, breach or inducement of a breach of a duty to maintain secrecy, or espionage through electronic or other means. Reverse engineering or independent derivation alone shall not be considered improper means.
(b) "Misappropriation" means:
(1) Acquisition of a trade secret of another by a person who knows or has reason to know that the trade secret was acquired by improper means; or
(2) Disclosure or use of a trade secret of another without express or implied consent by a person who:
(A) Used improper means to acquire knowledge of the trade secret; or
(B) At the time of disclosure or use, knew or had reason to know that his or her knowledge of the trade secret was:
(i) Derived from or through a person who had utilized improper means to acquire it;
(ii) Acquired under circumstances giving rise to a duty to maintain its secrecy or limit its use; or
(iii) Derived from or through a person who owed a duty to the person seeking relief to maintain its secrecy or limit its use; or
(C) Before a material change of his or her position, knew or had reason to know that it was a trade secret and that knowledge of it had been acquired by accident or mistake.
(c) "Person" means a natural person, corporation, business trust, estate, trust, partnership, limited liability company, association, joint venture, government, governmental subdivision or agency, or any other legal or commercial entity.
(d) "Trade secret" means information, including a formula, pattern, compilation, program, device, method, technique, or process, that:
(1) Derives independent economic value, actual or potential, from not being generally known to the public or to other persons who can obtain economic value from its disclosure or use; and
(2) Is the subject of efforts that are reasonable under the circumstances to maintain its secrecy.
[Emphasis added. So not only is reverse engineering perfectly legal under California trade secret law, it is also perfectly legal under the DMCA right now, and in Norway, where the reverse engineering took place. Send check to EFF.org now!]
I'm getting kind of tired of this.
The Entertainment industry wants us to consume but they want to control how and where we do this consumption. I keep thinking of the money fleeced from consumers by the invention of the CD - it was supposed to cut costs of album production, and it did, from ~$10 per to ~$1 per - but did the recording industry reduce prices to consumers?
Even now, the sludge-brains at the record companies are offering music on the internet for - surprise - the same price you'd pay for the CD at Wal-Mart. Gee - I have to sit through a download and then burn a CD and I get no cover art, no liner notes, no CD case, shit, I even have to provide the blank CD and I still have to pay $15 for an album?!
Gnrow!
Yah.
Somehow or another the giants must fall. The gigantic, monolithic, blood-sucking industry that surrounds all popular culture must fall. If it doesn't, freedom will. They can't ever be allowed to tell us what protocols we can use, what software we aren't allowed to own on the assumption that we might put it to illegal use. This cannot be allowed to happen!
There's no need anymore for NBC, Sony Records, United Artists as they stand. The status quo is gone. The future of artistic endeavor has to be: you put it up, you're honest and good, people visit your site and pull it down. No record companies, only music reviewers. No movie industry, just reviewers, etc. Artists and the trusted portals will be the champions, dissemination will be ubiquitous.
What this really means, of course, is that your Monday morning chat around the water-cooler will be highly eclectic, because there won't be any "Friends" or "Seinfelds" - we'll move in different circles.
I'm getting tired.
That is all.
MjM
XKCD:Xeric Knowledge Comically Dispen
The guy's still an idiot, of course, but at least we can understand why.
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The New World Order is upon us, and it's about damned time.