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R2D2 (Kenny Baker) Replaced with CGI for Ep2
BirdTor writes: "Kenny Baker, the diminutive actor who played R2D2 in all of the Star Wars up until now has been dumped. George Lucas plans to use a computer-generated R2D2 instead. I don't know, there's just something charming about the Kenny-driven R2D2 bumbling along that I doubt the new 3D-generated R2D2 will be able to capture."
My Reasoning:
Is there a Mike Roch in here, anyone seen Mike Roch?
"`Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.'" -THHGTTG
Interesting that you tell a bunch of computer geeks that one of their favorite star wars characters will be computer generated, and they all get angry. Don't we like computers? Perhaps we have a human side to us after all, and realize that for some things computers are not the answer. Could it be that was have an artistic side after all? (okay, programming is an art form, but...). Just some food for thought.
Sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.
So the only reason you liked R2D2 is because you thought of him as a person instead of a robot?
Yet you are going to hate the prequels, because he is replacing people acting like robots, with computer generated robots.
I'd say Kenny didn't do a very good job acting like a robot, then, eh?
-thomas
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
"And like that
Has George Lucas been smoking crack lately?
...?
Evidence:
* Jar-Jar Binks
* Samuel Jackson
far better evidence than either of those is that beard of his-- he could be a stunt double for one of those bear-creatures on hoth, man! the guy is off the wall!
but the point of this post (what?) is to point out what i'm sure was an honest mistake-- you seem to have listed samuel jackson in the "case for Lucas on crack". now, maybe you meant to type:
* Fact that Samuel Jackson didn't just go whup darth maul's raggedy ass himself
for ep1, sam jackson's sitting in a room with a bunch of puppets dude. give him a break. once he's got a lightsaber in his hands and he's cutting down clones you'll understand that Lucas has obviously been taking acid with old sammy! watching mace "your ass ain't talking your way out of this" windu kick ass in ep2 is going to be soooooo trippy, dude. yeah.
grizzo: totally insecure, but very convenient.
For interesting thoughts on realism vs. cartoonism, you'll want to grab a copy of Scott McCloud's "Understanding Comics."
In it, he purports that the more "cartoony" the character art, the more closely the viewer can identify with it; the more realistic the character art, the more the viewer dissociates from it.
As evidence, look to Dilbert versus Mary Worth.
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i can honestly say i dont care that this kenny guy isnt the one doing r2d2 anymore. but i do care that they're going to animate him. thats why e1 sucked, remeber lucas? jar jar? everytime i hear about the new star wars it makes me wish they could just do it like they did they origonals, scraped together models and dumb looking maskes. ah those were the days...
"Cornflakes are not the innocent critters they seem"- Sterling Morrison
Bite the hand.
I wonder if anyone has considered the autobiographical (for Lucas) aspect of these movies:
Rick McCallum's plot summary: We meet Anakin Skywalker when he's a young boy [filmmaker] and we watch him become a Jedi- knight [rich filmmaker],then a Jedi-master [very rich filmmaker]. Then in the background of the Clone-Wars,[terrible 70's and 80's sci-fi movies] he becomes a great hero, and on that moment pride, ego and selfishness take over and he chooses to go to the Dark Side. And rest of the movie [his life] is really about the consequences of what happens when you don't take responsibilities of your own actions, and when you think you're better than anybody else.
hmmmmm......
If you didn't know it was CGI before you saw it, would you be sitting there with pen in hand (figuratively) waiting to tear apart each CGI part?
While it isn't the most exciting, it is essential to the 'back story' nature of Ep. I. This was the movie that is the 'first chapter' of the story we are viewing. Every first chapter does some sort of back story viewing. And let's face it, that back story is important in understanding how things got so f**ked up by Ep IV. I mean, where would you want to start to explain how the Empire was formed, and a basically good man was turned to the dark side and became Darth Vader and helped hunt down and destroy the people he was supposedly a part of. There's a lot of back story to explore there, and I'm happy that Lucas chose to let us explore it. I'd expect the next two movies to get progressively more dark and exciting.
Bite my yammer.
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different midget
How un-PC. The preferred term is "doorstop".
When Kenny says, "If they don't use human beings these movies are in danger of looking like Disney cartoons . . . ," I have to agree. I mean, look at Episode I. With Jar Jar and Watto flitting about, the movie really had a "cartoony" aspect about it at times.
As an aside . . .
Do you think Jar Jar would have been more tolerable if he had been played by a human actor?
-B
-B
benjones@superutility.net
-B
>The Matrix sucked by comparison... Gina Gershon did not show up and have sex and another woman even ONCE in the whole thing! What a >letdown!
>Thank you, God bless you, and God bless the United States of America
GW..is that you?! Hey, I haven't seen you since the RNC in Philly! Yeah, nice speech, BTW. But onto the tropic, this is just plain WRONG!! Lucas is *DESTROYING* all my childhood memories of SW by altering & replacing the elements that made it so freakin' cool to begin with! Stop screwing with the originals, Georgie!
"Klaatu, verada, necktie!" -Ash
Did I use enough bold/italics tabs?
--
Culture is knowing the correct orders of magnitude...
Director Andrew Nichol (The Truman Show) was unable to find a suitable lead actress for the title role of his new movie "Simone", and impressed by the latest CGI, he has decided to use a CGI "woman" opposite Al Pacino in the film.
See this SF Gate article. I had read about it in the SF Chronicle or Examiner, and this is the first reference I could find online -- I am sure there are others.
-- Chris Goldman
Trust not a man who's rich in flax / His morals may be sadly lax
Not to mention the fact that the computers, programmers, operators and assorted yes-geeks will probably total as much if not more than an actor and a few models?
I'm going to miss the famous r2d2 waddle when he tries to walk.. and we all saw what happened when they introduced jar jar as a CGI character... sigh.. george lucas, what have you done?
Don't know if it is a mock-up though. Lots of cool stuff like the star destroyer and x-wing are purported to be original production effects models, but some of the other stuff was mocked-up (Like the Darth Vader costume IIRC)
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
I've also seen a number of movies where I didn't expect the CGI, and was appalled by it.
I knew there were models in the originals, but they were still impressive.
I had lowered my expectations a bit by the time I saw it too. The only way I made it through was by mentally replacing JarJar with Lisa Kudrow. It was a much more entertaining movie after that.
...they killed Kenny. Those bastards
Must....drink....coffee...
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>little bit of a way to go
It's hardly fair to trash Toy Story for not being photorealistic.
Remember, Toy Story came out five YEARS ago (1995)... that's an eternity in the computer (and thus, the CGI) world.
And Toy Story II is not a fair testiment as to the true abilities of Pixar. Since TS2 is a *sequel* to the original, it MUST keep the same visual style. Even though Pixar is certianly CAPABLE of a much more sophisticated CGI now than in 1995, they could NOT make TS2 photorealistic. And who's to say that photorealism would be appropiate in a Pixar/Disney production anyway? Jobs/Lasseter have done great things with Pixar's visual style as it is. I don't think a little "cartoony" visual style detracts at all.
Can you inagine a photorealistic Woody and Buzz Lightyear? I didn't think so. That wouldn't have fit within the style of the Toy Story universe.
john
Resistance is NOT futile!!!
Haiku:
I am not a drone.
Remove the collective if
Imagine all the people...
CGI is good but nothing can match real 3D objects..
UPS Sucks
I'm sure he will do the same thing if VirtualR2D2 1.0 does not measure up to what he wants.
That's the thing everybody forgets about Jar Jar. I hated him as much as anybody, but not because the CGI was bad... it was because the script and voice acting was beyond redemption. (That, and the insistence of the RogerRabit-esque moment when Qui Gon pinched Jar Jar's tongue... how sadly pedestrian to think modern viewers would be impressed with that.)
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Did he have a little steering wheel and buttons to work the lights?
nuclear iraq bioweapon encryption cocaine korea terrorist
Evan Reynolds evanthx@hotmail.com
Evan Reynolds evanthx@hotmail.com
Two peanuts crossed the street. One was assaulted.
You bastards!
The analogy to Anakin becoming more and more machine is amazing, huh?
It's the same sh*t he's pulling with DVDs. The man is too full of himself to remember where he came from: story telling.
Because you can't, you won't, and you don't stop...
about R2D2 was how he was imperfect. sort of ragged bot...i hope the computer animation does not smooth out those movements.
"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." - Jack Nicholson
You are too unkind.
heh
heh heh
___
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Do ya feel happy-go-lucky, punk?
Not only that, but Prowse spoke all of Vader's lines and was dubbed over later by JEJ. IIRC Prowse was rather pissed about that... because he didn't know about it until he saw the completed movie.
End of lesson. You may press the button.
There's still something to be said for hand made models and costumes when it comes to realism.
;-). It just shows that he's more concerned with what the kids say that what the people who started watching the series in 1977 say. The kids don't care about realistic, they want more lens flares.
That's the key. A CGI R2 may be given a bitmap that has "dirt" applied but can never look properly worn and interesting. The actual models of various sizes of R2D2 are really what makes the character stand out. It's understandable that Lucas wants to save money by not having to make 500 different R2's for use in various shots (after all he only make a few dollars with the series so far
I'm sure that if they destroy R2, the public will never forgive Lucas.
It's a nice idea but there are far more 12 year olds that really don't understand the "lovableness" of R2D2. They liked Jar Jar.
We're not the ones he cares about anymore. It's the little kids that bug mom into buying yet another Jar Jar figurine after breaking the last one the bugged mom about. We break ours once in anger and then feel better so we don't buy another. I hope Lucas keeps at least some of R2's distictiveness in the future and maybe even uses Kenny for some shots (despite what he says). I just think he's lost the dream and relies on the cash.
I have to offer another view about CGI, particularly as it relates to previous posts concerning Jurassic Park (SP?) I thought those raptors in the Kitchen were VERY realistic (having willingly suspended disbelief...). Those weren't robots were they?
-------------------------
A person of moderate zeal
Re:Sue Lucas under Americans with Disabilities Act (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 29, @12:50PM EST (#148)
different midget
How un-PC. The preferred term is "doorstop".
Boy I wish I had some mod points to mod this up +3 Funny. Hoo boy.
Chris
From what I heard about Samuel L. Jackson's inclusion in Episode I, he basically begged Lucas to be in it. The reply was that the parts were all taken care of, and that the only thing he could get would be a bit part. The reply was something along the lines of "who cares, I just want to be in a star wars movie".
This is what I heard, so take it with a grain of salt (TIWAGOS?), but it sounds about right. Wouldn't *you* want to be in a star wars movie, even if it was just as a side character, or one jedi knight in a thousand, charging forward in the clone wars? I know I would (that is of course if lucas doesn't replace armies of jedi with CGI jedi because the armies of droids in Episode I looked so good (bah)).
We had this discussion at work recently, WTR LoTR; one of my workmates wanted to know why Peter Jackson is building real, huge sets up and down the country for filming, and not just use CGI. The answers are simple: CGI doesn't look as good and it costs a whole lot more.
--
My name is Sue,
How do you do?
Now you gonna die!
Well I must say that's kind of odd, as a friend of mine who worked on the set until this week when they jetted off to tunisia would say otherwise.
Her sister ( who got her the job ) is the puppeteer who controls R2D2 ( the fiddly outside bits I guess ).
Of course, I would definately expect they would do do a partial mix of both CGI and live action like in E1, but a complete replacement?
Adam
What, so does this mean that they are going to use digitised sounds for r2's bleeping noises, too?
The secret of success is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake those, you've got it made. (Marx)
A robot gets fired and replaced by a virtual robot.
We humans spent all that time worried that robots were going to replace us in the workplace. I think our fears were misplaced.
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Remember, the saga begins in a time of relative peace. Any Naboo fighters are bound to be some kind of Royal Honor Guard... looking shiney was expected to be thier main function.
The X-Wings in Star Wars are salvaged surplus military gear aquired from the-force-knows-where by a rag-tag band of rebels, and the empirial crafts have seen extended wartime use, probably rebuilt several times.
Take a look at the Apache helicopters that came back from the Gulf War. They look quite a bit different from the ones the Air Force displays on their recruiting posters, don't they?
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
If you look just at the first movie, you see hints, but nothing that makes it obvious. This was an amazingly subtle movie, if you haven't seen the rest of them.
-David T. C.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
> Maybe the actors can act in their street clothes and have the wardrobe added later.
Read, if you haven't already, Diamond Age by Stephenson. Actors and actresses get sensor nets imbedded in their skin to allow the computer to detect every movement, including facial expressions. The actor acts and the computer adds everything else (e.g., skin, hair, clothes, scenery, etc.). Great concept.
I've heard of CG (Computer Graphics) but I've never heard of it referred to as CGI (Common Gateway Interface????), except in rare cases. If that is actually an acronym for Computer Graphics, what the hell does it stand for?
Thank you.
{justin.filip | jfilip AT gmail DOT com} {http://jfilip.ca/}
It's a shame that a nice film has turned into the equivalent of the Nike Swoosh --- just a brand name to sell crap. The increasingly feverish protests of the Star Wars cultists just get more and more embarrassing. Yoda might be able to peddle his "There is no Try" routine on screen, but it's clear that Lucas stopped trying years ago and as a result there's nothing doing with the new films.
Furthermore, the rendering of Toy Story thematically fits the patently non-realistic nature of the charactors as they are, of course, toys. A cartoon 'Toy Story' now exists, which is unfortunate. Five year olds will be able to tell the quality difference. Jim Carey is playing The Grinch (feh), which should only be the hand drawn cartoon narrated by Boris Carloff. The hand rendered claymation of Chicken Run is nonpariel. Dedication to an artististic endevor demands careful mating of medium and theme. (my .02)
"..don't you eat that yellow snow."
Then cut down on the frequency and amplitude of the jitter to create realism without exaggeration.
<O
( \
XGNOME vs. KDE: the game!
Will I retire or break 10K?
Hell, you don't need CGI to reproduce George Lucas - save some money and use cardboard.
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Gort! Klatu Barata Nikto!
Some sounds of the owl which I recorded from the movie are here:
http://magi.yok.utu.fi/~magi/foo/bubo-r2d2.mp3
The similarity is striking! There were also some other very similar themes between the BotT and Star Wars. I don't remember the movie too well anymore, but you definitely should watch it. The characters and themes were very "starwarsy". Or...perhaps we should say that Star Wars was very battle-of-the-titanous. I think there was some obiwankenobish character there (you can hear his voice on the short mp3 above). And princess Andromeda was turned to princess Leia, of course. And they laughed in a very similar manner.
The robotic owl was dropped in a stream and rescued, it was damaged during the final combat, etc. It behaved very much like R2D2: a funny and 'cute' character.
perhaps r2d2 isn't going to be a major character? Maybe just a quick 2 second flash? who knows.. i think before everyone whines about it they should see it.
-- MrMud
I understand why they're doing away with the physical R2D2 models but that doesn't actor has to be entirely removed from the equation. ILM could stick a dustbin on Kenny's head and tie his feet together, motion-capture him struggling to move and use that to animate the CGI with the authentic R2 waddle.
Crappy? I'd like to see you do better than this.
-- Dr. Eldarion --
Last time I checked, there was only one actor in the original Star Wars (Harrison Ford). Looks like Lucas was close to his dream.
My least favorite characters in Episode 1 were all computer-generated. Jar-Jar was annoying as hell, the robots seemed to defy the laws of physics, it all looked like a horribly done Q2 engine game.
Now, we'll have to watch R2D2 stumble along as unnaturally as the Gungans and robots in Episode 1.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Make R2 out of Legos!
How odd. I'd have to say the lobby shootout scene is very easily the lowest point of the film, where the Matrix dissolves from something truly interesting into just another big budget summer ho-hum. The movie would have been so much better without that scene. It's still good, though.
Everything looks new. Sure.
You did realize that the new Star Wars movies are *PREQUELS*, right? That means they happened (time-wise) *before* the old Star Wars trilogy.
Before the clone wars. Before the growth of the Empire. You're seeing the junkheaps and battle-scarred X-wing fighters, because that happens *years* after the story of the prequels...
It makes total sense that things look new and fresh and clean in the new SW movies... things are about to get nastier, and yes there's going to be a whole lot more degeneration around - that's the point!
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Kenny Baker is 66 Years old as of last week. I imagine that scooting around in a tin can is a game for the young. The decision may have been made because Kenny Baker didn't want to do it again--it can't possibly be much fun.
-k
I wonder where he gets the time to tape episodes of Red Dwarf in between his appearances on The People's Court.
Actually...Luke would have been cleaning a wooden cylinder with a rounded top. The wood would be painted white with fine black gridlines. The CGI bit would have been added later, with the gridlines to make everything match up.
CGI means you don't have to spend money on expensive models. You can spend the money on expensive computers and hire expensive geeks to run them.
Well, it's obviously a ploy to gain greater power for himself. I still think there could have been a more entertaining way to do it.
I know a lot of lawyers who've advanced their careers through major tax law cases, but it doesn't mean I want to see a 2 hour movie I waited forever for about it.
Terry Gilliam has just announced that the role of Fidget will be played by a robot in the upcoming Time Bandits II. When it rains it pours.
"It's all right, it's ok. There's something to live for" - Uncle Bill
Isn't that what basically created Darth Vader in the first place? Replacing parts of his body with cybernetic ones until he was almost totally machine? Sounds to me like that's what is happening to Lucas...the more CGI he puts into the movies...well, you get the picture.
:(
I tried thinking down the road a bit, and had another chilling thought hit me: all-CGI Darth Vader in Episode 3. He doesn't really have any visible human parts, and that shiny black mask just lends itself to 3D rendering...it will happen. I can feel it.
-- www.bteg.com | bleh.n3.net | hac47.dhs.org
Boy, am I glad to hear that I'm not the only one who thinks that this "Filmed in HDTV" movie is going to suck in terms of picture quality. Too many people are busy drooling over the use of that damn Sony video camera just because someone decided to attach the "digital" buzzword to it.
Just think, if Lucas had said he was going to shoot the next Star Wars movie using a video camera, everyone would have laughed. But because he used the word "digital" instead, people's eyes glazed over, they shut their brains off, and started chanting "digital is good, it is the future, digital is good, it is the future..."
I wouldn't have too big a problem with the use of a video camera if it had proper resolution, but this movie is going to be filmed in 1920x1080 format (16:9 aspect ratio), cropped to about 1920x700 to form a widescreen "scope" image (2.35:1 aspect ratio). That's simply not good enough to replace film. Have a look at this resolution chart for motion picture film scanning/printing. You'll see that the mamimum resolution for scanning film is about 4000 pixels per side, not 2000. Lucas is essentially shooting at HDTV resolution, not film resolution.
Even though it was shot on film, Ep. I looked pretty bad too, since almost the entire movie was processed on computers at 2K resolution (instead of 4K). All that extra resolution that was captured on the film just got thrown away, and the image quality ofthe final product just suffers. When they project that image up on the big screen and you sit at the proper distance so that the image completely fills your vision, 2K resolution just looks blurry.
Free Hans!
Wow. I hadn't heard of the retraction. Quite a dress rehearsal for when it really happens. Wonder if this will be a wake-up call for the Screen Actors Guild, which will negotiate a "no artificial humans" clause in future contracts?
The Galaxy had been at peace for several thousand years - if nobody's shooting at you, there's hardly going to be any battle scars are there?
By amazing coincitence, Coronet is also the name of the capital city of Han Solo's home planet, Corellia.
I noticed when I saw Gladiator with some friends that some people can see that the crowd is CGI right away, and others don't see it at all. One of us, who happens to be a good programmer, noticed the CGI easily. Another, who has a hard time with programming, didn't notice anything. 4 people isn't much of a test group, but probably some of the skills that help you program well also help you see copied or unnatural movements in the crowd.
Good point-- everything they use is leftover stuff from the Old Republic. And thought XWings are built during the Rebellion, they saw constant combat, as opposed to Naboo fighters, which had never been used due to the peace of the Republic.
Shiney isn't the problem. The two problems with SW:E1 were:
1) Nothing looked usable. Everything was a show-room model, not something you would buy on a day to day basis. The stuff could have been bent, broken, dirty and scratched, but to me it still would have looked like concept models.
2) Nothing had texture. Texture seems to be the lost art of moviemaking, now that everything is CGI. Muppets and costumes have great texture and subtlety. CGI creatures look too 'raytraced'-- like someone painted over plastic wrap.
We're losing the personality from these movies. You couldn't make the Dark Crystal from a cartoon or CGI. Lucas seems to enamored of the latest technologies, and has left behind the old ones which are still useful.
Is it a pod racer starting up?
Is it the Millenium Falcon preparing to jump into hyperspace?
No, it's Sir Alec Guinness spinning in his grave.
Perhaps I chose a bad example, or I should have focused more on the "Han, Luke and Chewie" part rather than the "crowd of Rebels" part.
It's not the special effects, per se, that bother me I guess, but rather the increasing importance they play as primary literary (and I use that term loosely, Mr. Lucas) devices.
While Lando blasts his way through a zillion CGI/effects spaceships in a battle with a F/X Death Star, I can invest something in the scene because I can identify with the character. But when Watto gets what's coming to him or Jar-Jar redeems himself, I can't identify on either side of the fence, and thus, the importance of the scene is lost on me.
And I am not even sure why that is, exactly. I'm not even sure that more "realistic" CGI characters would change my mind. But no matter how good the effect, CGIs as key players just lose something.
They're not "analog" enough. Even the flaws seem too calculated...
PDH======================================
======================================
Writers get in shape by pumping irony.
If the link in the story doesn't work for you, ie you don't see anything about R2D2, try this instead.
Yeah, all those pod-racer pods looked like they just got unloaded from the factory, didn't they?
Let me put the question to you this way. Have you ever seen the Blue Angels or the Thunderbirds aircraft up close? Let me tell you...those fighter jets are immaculate. You could eat off the control surfaces...'cept then you'd have to answer to the chief whose responsibility it is to keep the left horizontal stabilizer shaving-mirror polished.
Just 'cuz it's a fighter, doesn't mean it has to be crusty lookin'. Everything else in the movie, save for the Naboo equipment, looked suitably "lived in". That was a conscious choice on Lucas' part, and it works.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Note that the Air Force doesn't operate Apaches. Armed rotary-wing aircraft are the purview of the Army and the Marine Corps. This was due to the fact that when the Air Force separated from the Army (in WW2 it was the Army Air Corps), the new AF brass managed to pass laws forbidding the Army from operating armed, fixed-wing aircraft. The AF then proceeded to totally ignore helicopters, as they weren't fast or shiny enough. The Army, seeing the utility of these aircraft first as transports and then as gun platforms, passed corollary legislation preventing the AF from operating armed rotary-wing aircraft.
Thus endeth the military history lesson. Aren't you glad that our armed forces spend so much time and effort pissing on each other?
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
I just read today that some guy modified AIM by adding AppleScript running Eliza. Idiots were contacting him and they had no clue that they were talking to a 1st generation AI program.
I even heard there is a program that immitates that judge on the deCSS case. Problem is, nobody can tell the difference between the program and the real McCoy as both make really bad decisions.
Now, let's imagine when they write an Al Gore CGI program. At least it will have more life to it before it runs itself into an endless loop of changing its political position. Even if the PC loses a few flip-flops, it can still borrow some from the program and keep on running.
RD
IMHO lucas should have stopped with the THX releases of ep 4-6. The pure CG scenes in the Special Edition and most of the additions to existing scenes really really looked fake. Ep 1's use of computers was better, but still weren't very immersive. props to the animators though, there was plenty of detail in the character's movements, but they didn't even look like they were really there. Gimmie back my plastic models and green screen!
-= I can't think of anything witty, creative, or insightful for my sig, so deal with this. =-
Although I never saw the original Star Wars in the theatres (I was probably a bit too young then), when I did get to see them, I really enjoyed them. The Millennium Falcon looked real, even if it was really a model.
Looking at Episode 1, although the special effects were supposedly "better", they did appear rather fake. This so far appears true of many movies where computer animation is used: it's like there's not quite the attention to detail that was put in with the old models.
For instance - compare 2001: A Space Odyssey which was out in 1968, before we'd landed someone on the moon with any space movie from the last couple of years. 2001 seemed real. The newer movies seem to lack the attention to detail that 2001 got.
Computer animation is going to be the future - but it still has a long way to go before it will catch up with even 2001. George Lucas shouldn't kill Kenny just yet...
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
Comment removed based on user account deletion
1970 - George Lucas makes _THX-1138_, a plodding didactic film about the dehumanizing aspects of technology and holographic characters virtually indistinguishable from real people.
2000 - George Lucas opts for a CGI Artoo instead of a real actor.
Perhaps a new reading of THX-1138 is in order? Perhaps Lucas what actually portraying his utopian vision of humanity's future rather than the dystopian hell everyone assumed he was talking about.
I guess it only took him 30 years to lose his soul.
-carl
. We've got computers, we're tapping phone lines, you know that ain't allowed - Talking Heads, "Life During Wartime"
George Lucas of Lucas Films annonced "Technology has advanced so much in the last two years since Ep II, that not only can I replace all of the non human characters as I did in Episode II. But we can now replace all of the human character and simulate their voices using the new Computer Voice Synthesis. The only hard choice was deciding to whether or not to make the computer simulate the bad acting that we have had in the last two films"
-Jasa -- Linux - The SOURCE will be with you, ALWAYS
Well, technically Ahmed Best DID perform on the set of Episode 1, with full Jar Jar regalia, later the CGI was superimposed over his head and neck (complete with goofy looking Jar Jar hat), mainly to have a physical spatial reference for the animators, and something for the actors to look at so they wouldn't appear to be staring off into space (didn't quite work)...
No reason the R2D2 can't be done the same way... HOWEVER, when Anthony Daniels is replaced with CGI, THAT will be a sad day indeed...
A bit of history, since I've known a person who worked for Lucasfilms for a time... The original reason that Lucasfilms bankrolled Pixar in the first place, was because at the time, George Lucas was contemplating virtual sets and actors in the early 80's, even though at the time, a lot of it was relatively primative... And he used it pretty much from the getgo, Return of the Jedi, Willow, both used CGI in varying amounts... Pity he didn't use it in Howard the Duck, however...
He went into the 80's wanting to make movies completely CGI, he's about 75% there now...
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
Well, maybe he can get a higher paying job at Lucas Ltd doing the graphics ;-)
I wish him best of luck.
Vote Naked 2000
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Remember WHICH MOVIE got it?
The Matrix!
Try to imagine the slap in Mr. Lucas's face: ILM had almost consistently been winning best visual effects Oscars over the last few years, and the very year his so highly anticipated movie comes out, with all its overhyped and highly bragged-about slew of ILM special effects, SOMEONE ELSE gets the title!
I think this should have taught George Lucas the lesson that visual effects DO NOT make a movie: as snazzy (not necessarily GOOD) as they can be, if your characters are not interesting enough for the moviegoer to care about them, they're as good as non-existent.
It appears He's not learning.
In any case, I ain't going thru this sh*t again with my friends for EP2 .
Extraordinary Vacations. Exceptional Prices
Removing people is progress....?
Yes, lets remove all those pesky actors, and only do CG stuff!
No-one enjoys seeing real people anymore, so it won't make a difference!
Sheesh!
Important info:
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net
http://dieoff.org/synopsis.htm
http://www.peakoil.net
I'm going to Chicago next month. Was the exhibit pretty cool, as in informative about the film making process etc. or just a bunch of props? Also is that the same museum Sue is in? The Turtle KwikBarter.com Swap Old Stuff for Cool Stuff http://www.kwikbarter.com
I mean, first he says, "If they don't use human beings these movies are in danger of looking like Disney cartoons... "
Then he follows that up with, "The progress in digital and computer technology has been frightening. It was light years on from when I was in the first Star Wars movie."
I think these conflicting statements can easily be summed up in a few words...
Beeeeeeeep BEeeeeeeep Beeeeeep!!! EEEEooooo EEEEoooo EEEEooooo!!
-thomas
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
"And like that
And one of them has already been written by Anonymous Cowards.
"I have a sneaking suspicion that if there were a way to make movies without actors, George (Lucas) would do it."
The scary thing is, I can see this. Lucas has always seemed obsessed about the 'vision'. He's got his own ideas how things should look and how they'd go, and the more people he has to get to help him realize that vision, the more diluted it gets by everyone else's contributions.
Makes perfect sense seen from that point of view. The fewer other 'personalities' involved, the more tightly you can control the outcome.
Purity of vision is a double-edged sword, though. Some writers just desperately need editors riding herd on them. It may be exactly the masterpiece the writer wanted, but if nobody other than the writer can understand it because nobody with sufficient clout could sit him down and say 'this doesn't make sense', well...
-- Bryan Feir
probably as hard as making a crappy post.
Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
It's no secret he doesn't want to work with actors and actresses. He's probably champing at the bit to do a completely CGI film.
The quality of Toy Story indicates it has a little bit of a way to go, but it may only take a few years.
A shame, really, as humans add a lot to a part, even if they don't speak much.
Can you imagine A New Hope with Maz Headroom instead of Alec Guinness?
Oh well, I hope Kenny Baker has a good 401k, he;s getting shafted by GL.
R2CGI2
Can I slap Lucas now?
Wow, it's amazing what you can do with makeup these days :-)
Regards,
John
Falling You - beautiful
Which is better:
------------
Millenium Falcon, with wires, loose rivets, burn marks, etc.
-or-
The mirror smooth ship in Phantom Menace
---------------
Chewbacca
-or-
Jar Jar
------------------
Jabba the Hutt
-or-
The winged blue guy who I don't even know his name
------------------
Storm Troopers
-or-
Those idiotic battle droids
-------------------
The Death Star
-or-
The silly looking ship Anakin accidentally blew up
-------------------
Doing it with CGI doesn't make it better, George. Twenty years later, everybody still knows what the Death Star is. Kids wanted to be Storm Troopers, even though they always got killed. I wanted to own the Millenium Falcon. I wanted R2D2 to be my friend. Nobody wants to be friends with a CGI. Nobody dreams of owning the Naboo silver ship, which didn't even have a name, and the battle droids- no, I don't think anyone dreams of being a battle droid. Oh, and BTW- Jar Jar sucks ass.
How much more will it cost to 'just use a computer', rather than pay an actor (and the various supports, like puppeteers,etc)??
Each frame of CGI takes an hour to render (an industry standard), so not only will this be more expensive (IMHO) but take longer too!
Wake up, George!
Important info:
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net
http://dieoff.org/synopsis.htm
http://www.peakoil.net
When I was camping out for E1, Kenny actually came by the line here in Dallas to say hi to everyone. He's very nice, polite, and cool as hell. Lucas... First you give us the pablum that is Jar-Jar, then this? Have you no shame?
-------------------------------------------------
More than cartoons, they were cardboards.
Most of the crowd watching the heroes receive their medallions are cardboard cutouts.
Cardboard cutouts are used for some of the background starfighters in the Rebel hanger bay.
More trivia on the IMDB.
Fh
Stop spreading misinformation, he's a remote controlled robot !!!
Who really said it was only a CGI character ? And sure, many (if not most) of the Episode I shots had an RC controlled R2 unit.
- sigs are for wimps.
Has George Lucas been smoking crack lately?
Evidence:
* Jar-Jar Binks
* Samuel Jackson
* Episode 1 in general
and now
* Fake R2D2
hrmm...
wish
Vote for freedom!
---
Wait a minute...are you saying that Lisa Kudrow is better than Jar Jar? Or just that it's funnier to see Lisa Kudrow step in bantha poodoo?
Enter CGI
R2: Hello, meesa Jar2D2! Since every other character in Star Wars these days be doin' racist impressions, meesa gonna do some racist impressions too! Bleep bloo fleebleoob! Get it? Meesa making fun of UNIX system! Doo dop beeeeep! Hah hah, Windows 2k bleeps freeble goit!
88
Further information on this topic may be found here.
You are so right. Sorry for the brain fart.
Hilary Rosen's speech was about her love of money and her desire to roll around naked in a pile of money.
With some good input devices, and a little training, it seems plausible that Mr. Baker could still be the actor behind R2D2. If anything, it should send a good signal to the acting world that we really mean it when we keep repeating the mantra that "it's the story, not the computers".
For me, at least, it would mean I'd spend less time listening to my peers debate if the new R2D2 is as good as the old one. Anything that helps me get out of analysis mode and back into fantasy mode would be a plus.
--Will
willdye@willdye.com
That makes sense, so does 'Computer Graphics Integration' for integrating CG w/ live action.
Thanks! =)
{justin.filip | jfilip AT gmail DOT com} {http://jfilip.ca/}
Star Wars has become an integral part of our culture, one of our few shared mythical stories in a society of a thousand religions. Yes Lucas insists of f*ing around with it. So long as he is alive, Star Wars will probably never be seen again as we boomers and Gen X'ers remember it. The enhancements that were done for the re-release added nothing to the film, and cheapened a classic.
As if this was not enough, he chose to take Obi Wan's beuatiful description of the spiritual power known as "the force", and turn it into nothing more than the behavior of intelligent, parasitic nano-creatures. It's like he went out of his way to destroy the deep sense of wonder his original movies evoked.
Yes, if you own the building where The Last Supper was painted, you technically have the right to knock a door through that wall... but that does not meant you should.
Han shot first! Damn you! Han shot first!!!! [gasp] [gasp]
Pardon me while I pull myself together.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
I would think they would want him to act a little bit more like a "normal" human, not a caffeine addict.
say that Kenney was canned then, huh???
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
When you finally saw the alien at the end of the movie, it looked like shit. It was just a guy in a rubber suit who looked like he should be manacing Tom Bakker, or maybe Godzilla.
I wonder when my employer is going to realize that most of MY work can be replaced by scripts and macros. Pretty soon, I guess I'll get "CGIed" out of real life!!! Anyone writing a Perl generator that scopes out popular trade presses and spits out forecasts and policy recommendations ... sort of like with the Haiku project?
FP?! Lucas is incapable of making artistic decisions because he has too much money in the thing... jar jar proved that methinks
Free Techno/Jazz/DNB/MI Music by guys obsessed with monkeys!
#!/usr/local/bin/perl -wT
use CGI qw/:standard/;
use CGI::Carp;
if(defined url_param('action')){
for (url_param('action')) {
if (/respond/) { beep(2); }
elsif {/move/} { wobble;
beep(1};
whirr(2);
move(url_param('direction'));
}
elsif {/trapped/} { hack('imperial_comp');
beep(2);
}
else { #default
random_beep();
}
}
}
--
"L'IT c'est moi!"
Actually I meant "progress" in an ironic way, indicating that, "Well, that's what happens when technology progresses." More to the point, the progression of technology is going to have both positive and negative side effects. I wasn't saying that it's necessarily good or right, it's just the way it is.
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
It's hard to believe Lucas would be so lame. Does anyone have any hard facts to back up this claim?
Gentlemen, start your pocket protectors... Regarding the pros and cons of going CGI to do R@-D2. I write about special effects for The Hollywood Reporter, so here's my $0.02 from an "insider's" perspective.
First of all, I'm not sure how much on-set actor interaction you'll lose with a CGI R2, which some people fear will lessen the performance value. He/it is, after all, a very non-anthropomorphic, trash-can shaped character who moves and emotes entirely differently than everything around it. (Keep in mind the sound effects come later.) And given the complexity of dealing with the props and Anthony Daniel's C3PO costume, the droid scenes are probably heavily scripted, with no improvisation, and thus necessarily limited. Aside from timing the slap of Daniels' hand on R2's head, there's no real reason to have Baker on set, although you could still have him be his own stand-in (like Ahmed Best did for Jar-Jar) and just erase him from the shots. I don't mean to keep dumping on Kenny, but if the radio-controlled R2 version were good enough, he would have been out of that suit years ago.
If there's one thing CGI does well, it's smooth metal surfaces, so it'll look fine. And while I hope we won't see R2 flying or jumping rope, going CG would allow him to move a little bit more. As it is he usually just stands and beeps. In fact, aside from the classic whimpering pass-out after he gets shot by the Jawas, he/it hasn't exactly been giving Robert De Niro a run for his money (and even that performance was more about the sound effect than Kenny Baker taking a fall).
Finally, if I'm not mistaken, we've already seen a CGI R2 several times. The new X-Wing Death Star attack flyby in the Star Wars special edition, with R2 in the back seat, was all CGI (done on a Mac, by the way). And I'm pretty sure the shots from "Phantom Menace" where R2 is working on the outside of that chrome Jedi ship were also CG.
You have to understand how these things evolve in a film production. It's far from diabolical. Here's my theory: Someone probably produced a very good CGI model of an R2-style droid for use in a background scene, or to populate a flock of droids. That file could have been picked up and used for the Episode 2 "animatics," the detailed low-rez version of the film used to plan shots and effects. Somewhere along the line, someone decided why not go CGI.
All in all, I'd say if you were going to safely go CGI with any "Star Wars" character, it'd have to be R2, though you could make a strong case for doing Yoda CG, since the muppet version looks odd these days. And in that case you could easily give Frank Oz the digital inputs that would allow him to perform a CG Yoda completely. It would look BETTER than any physical puppet.
They can't destroy R2, he shows up in the last three movies! Duh!
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
Not to mention Peter Cushing...
* And remember, it's spelled N-e-t-s-c-a-p-e, but it's pronounced "Mozilla."
After all, Dave Prowse was kept in line by continual threats of "anyone can wear the costume". Lucas will have enough samples of Anthony's voice to do without that as well.
I just hope Kenny doesn't become as bitter and twisted about this as Dave did.
-- Free Luna!
...if R2D2 is gonna be CGI, there's no need to have Jar Jar Binks.
I'll agree with point one.
But for texture, I refer you to Toy Story 2 and Dinosaur. TS2 had well-done grunge on occasion, and D had great fur, great rocks and great vegetation (shame it had nothing else going for it...).
Things are getting better in CGI-land.
But realistic CGI is no match for reality. Reality is fractal and random, both to a degree that can never be matched by simulation. Yes, "never" is strong language. Yes, I do think it's correct to say "never."
--
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
When young dwarves were guaranteed a well paying job under employment of George Lucas. At least they can still do porno.
Spin ya dead fsck Spin!!!
Sorry, I can not think of Guinness as anything but a british version of Clint Eastwood with a bigger vocab'. The man used the same voice and style in twenty some odd movies. Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth, hell that was fun, Macbeth!!!
Jar-Jar Binks was a dissapointment (to say the least). Although the animation was terrific, it still did not look real and it fealt like something was missing.
Not having an actor in R2 might work because it is not humonoid. It should be easier to reproduce because it has much less parts to animate. My problem, though is the way animated characters interact with the environment. It just isn't the same. You can tell when the actors are pretending to interact with something that isn't there.
oh well, it's Star Wars. It will still rock. -Snoobs
Man, if this next one is as bad as the last, I will have lost all hope and will have wasted many years of waiting for a good new movie from Lucas.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fanatic, but I'd love to see a good quality Star Wars movie. If you can tell that it's CGI, it's just a waste of screen time.
I wish he'd get back into myths and legends like the originals. Wars over trade routes aren't exactly the most exciting plot glue.
Relevant links:
The original story
The retraction
That's right, the retraction. The original press release was wrong. What's interesting is that the film will be about what it was originally chastised for (does that make sense?). The film concerns a director who loses the star for his movie at the last minute, so he decides to get a CGI replacement.
I'm not really sure whether this is art imitating life, life imitating art or some weird combination of all of the above. :>
--Pax
George Lucas doesn't get it anymore. The charm of the original movies that made him so successful is more than special effects. It's the details like the way Artoo and Threepio moved... perfect comedy of motion, even if accidental... and the worn, old junkheap look of the Falcon. Those Naboo fighters looked like pre-fab toys. No battle-scarred X-wing fighters for these movies, no sir. The bad acting, the good acting, the classic heroic fantasy in a new fantasy world with robots and starships - that was the magic. It's gone now...
It's a new generation, and 20 years later, the new star wars isn't star wars... it's the Matrix trilogy. (Yes, there are two sequels already in the works.)
-- Still waiting for the Nike endorsement
Most of the crowd there was fake. And it shows.
Exactly. The human eye can decipher, at least as far as cgi has been used in movies, that it is used. I mean, when I was watching "Gladiator" and they were doing the grand sweeping view of the Colliseum, etc. I could tell it was all computer generated. It screams "fake!" And I personally prefer real people. I don't like to think that someday I'll watch a movie where emotions are being acted out and portrayed and shown to me by things that have no inkling of such.. you know ?
Insert mind here.
Actually.. theres one prequel (How the Matrix was created) and one sequel (How the Matrix was destroyed).. if memory serves. Not that I'm being picky at all.. And they're being filmed back-to-back for release summer and christmas next year. Onion
http://twitter.com/onion2k
No. 'An' R2 unit show up in the last three movies. R2 is a robot, not a person. Presumably theres a factory in the Star Wars universe that churns out R2 units a million a day like Dysan vacuum cleaners.. Onion
http://twitter.com/onion2k
Probably had his horn in there with him, how'd he fit it all in there? ;-)
Vote Naked 2000
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
So did I, and I'm 30. I wish Lucas would do more characters who aren't obviously guys in costumes.
We're not the ones he cares about anymore.
That's because you're not 12 anymore. The original movies were aimed at kids. The new movies are aimed at kids. Lucas is being consistent; it's just your tastes that have changed.
Lucas would end better using better technology like servlets or at least FastCGI.
__
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
In Star Wars, you could just tell that was a real plastic dustbin waddling around.. I personally didn't know if it was a person inside or a remote-controlled thing, but if they make a CG thing it would spoil the magic...
I think Kenny Baker himself puts it best:
there's still no need to make your spaceships out of Polyethylene (because that's how they looked like in Ep1)
"R2D2's fallen and he can't get up!"
Look at the Empire... the ships look clean.. The Storm troopers battle armor looks clean.
The Empire can afford to repair or replace anything. They have the resorces to keep things in top condition. So ships don't show damage.
The Rebelion however is scrapping together what they can. They don't have the endless resorces of the empire. They don't bother with dents and dings. The helments look scratched up a bit. Everything in the rebelion looks like hell.
Jump to Ep1....
Everyone has the resorces to keep things up. If a fighter is scuffed in battle you fix it. Clean it up. The resorces are there. No reason to leave damage behind. The ships need to be in top shape if they are needed again. Spare no expense.
The Republic has the same issue... Shuttle Jedi in the best... not junk... They have the resorces.
But there is decay... The junk shop looked like a junk shop. The items didn't look clean. It all looked warn out.
C3P0 has the same issue.. he looked incompete. Built from scrap.
It all fits...
You don't show durt when there is a maid unless the maid isn't very good...
Anyway... I suspect the CGI R2D2 is for a reason.
R2 has all thies things he can do but it's not easy to show that off the way it is. In CGI we can see more of what R2D2 can do.
Also Baker is probably getting a bit old by now. I doupt he could do the preformence we are familure with.
Replacement? Medical science has pritty much put an end to the supply of short people...
I don't actually exist.
It took me a minute to register exactly what lucas did when I read this article, but it has made me realize, lucas has been edging toward technology more and more every episode. Jar-Jar Binks was computerized and now another major character, R2D2 is going to be digitized. Despite the fact that it is being recorded on digital cameras, it seems that Ep2 is becoming more and more digital and more and more like a digital movie instead of the traditional movie with FX.
--NovaScorpio
Matt
if it's that easy to make bad decisions, why not add a ! and make millions on a great AI program? ;)
I find it kind of retarded that Georgie is all Anti-DVD, but pushing onward towards CGI. In one sense he's saying advanced technology is bad (DVD) and then turning around and saying "Hey! Look what I can do with a computer! This is pretty cool! I made a Jar Jar Binks! I'm truly the coolest guy around! I'm gonna get rid of that R2 guy now. I bet I can animate a robot!"
>>-- Mark Hamill (The guy who played Luke Skywalker)
Who's Luke Skywalker?
-------------------------
A person of moderate zeal
Yeah, that's it...
That's exactly what I meant!
--Ty
It seems more and more these days George Lucas is turning into a 21st Century version of Howard Hughes. He's a genius in his industry, but becoming very eccentric and shunning the rest of humanity.
He's carefully weeding the human actors out of his movies and replacing them with CGI simulacra, I wouldn't be surprised if by Ep 3 when Darth Vader gets "introduced", Vader himself will be replaced by a CGI creation.
He's certainly lost touch with his fans though, it seems Jar Jar is coming back for Ep 2 simply out of spite considering even the few children I know in his target audience didn't like the loathsome toad.
I don't know if I even really want to face the possible disappointment of seeing Ep 2, maybe Matrix 2 will release at the same time and clean it's clock.
ChodaBoy
- The preceding statement is the product of a deranged mind and the sole property of the voices in my head.
One of the reasons I disliked EPI so much was the disconnect between the physical and the CGI elements, particularly in terms of the actors. I get fired up when Han, Luke and Chewie come marching down through a crowd of Rebels to get the medals. I could not care less when fake-looking, cartoonish CGIs win a battle over other fake-looking, cartoonish CGIs.
And that's the problem: you're showing fabulous special effects, but there is less and less "reality" to ground the movie.
======================================
======================================
Writers get in shape by pumping irony.
Two words.
Final Fantasy
----
Oh my god, Bear is driving! How can this be?
ADVENTURERS! - ANTIHERO FOR HIRE - CARDMASTER CONFLICT
It looks like there's going to be a lot of apprehension surrounding the next film. The botching of certain elements in Episode 1, and now this. I don't think the digitization of R2 will have that much of an effect on the character. I'm sure they're working hard to recreate the bobbles and bleeps of the R2 we know and love. My only concern is that due to the nature of today's CGI R2 might come out shiny and rendered looking. There's still something to be said for hand made models and costumes when it comes to realism.
:P
I don't think its fair to compare Jar Jar and R2. Jar Jar was a big mistake, as anyone with half a brain knows. R2 was beloved because he A) didn't speak some kind of horrible broken english, B) was able to convey huge amount of emotion despite speaking in bleeps and bloops, something they never got right with Jar Jar, and C) was one half of a comedic duo. C3P0 was a major part of making the R2 character loveable, and with Jar Jar that other half was missing, or was filled in by whatever character happened to be in the scene at the time. These are things that shouldn't be lost in the CGI transformation of R2, unless they manadge to mess it up completely. I'm sure that if they destroy R2, the public will never forgive Lucas
"I live in a world of make-believe, with faeries and leprechauns and tiny little frogs with funny hats."
"... and the ARMSTECH president Kenneth Baker..."
Is this where Hideo Kojima got the name?
----
Oh my god, Bear is driving! How can this be?
ADVENTURERS! - ANTIHERO FOR HIRE - CARDMASTER CONFLICT
Lucas has shown the way of the future - digital characters. First Jar-Jar and now R2-D2. Does anyone remember the commercial from just a few years back where they digitally resurrected the Duke (John Wayne, you remember him, right?) to promote something that could have been done just as well by someone else. Soon we won't need actors - we'll just resurrect our favorites and cast them into the parts. Ever wonder how Macauly(sp?) Culkin and Charlie Chaplin would look like together on screen? Soon you'll have your chance.
Very disappointing if you ask me. CGI can't capture the nuances that make acting an art. And even if it progresses enough that it can, so what? It's no longer an art, but science.
Constitutionally Correct
The actual story is here -- the url given is a page that's "today's" news, which is now yesterday's news.
---
At least mafia-owned pizzarias make excellent pizza. Compare to Bill Gates.
---------///----------
All generalizations are false.
--
I like to watch.
George was the driving force, but many talented people contributed to the vision of Star Wars. Consider Ralph McQuarrie's conceptual paintings and robot designs.
--
Marc A. Lepage (aka SEGV)
--
Marc A. Lepage
Software Developer
The more I experience about what Lucas is doing now, the more relevant the question is whether he actually even likes episode IV to VI at all. He certainly seems to have no respect for them as finished actual works, and continues to obliterate their charm in his next efforts.
FJ!!
Well, he's not leaving well enough alone with eps iv and vi.
In A New Hope, he ditched the scene where Han fired first at Greedo, and made Han return fire. That certainly cheapened Han's character, and made his turnaround less dramatic.
In Return of the Jedi, he CGI added tentacles and such to that sand worm.
Will he never leave well enough alone?
Dinosaur had great rocks and vegetation because that was not CGI! The creatures were the only CGI elements of Dinosaur... almost 100% of the scenery was real, filmed in the real world, with the CGI Dinosaurs inserted in. I think the technique is excellent, and it will help create very realistic 'cartoons' in the future.
The movie was still typical Disney pablum though.
Raven
And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor
"I will trust Google to 'do no evil' until the founders no longer run it." Hello Alphabet.
What i was trying to say was that it looked like a real robot, just as real as all the x-wings looked like a real spaceship and as jarjar didnt look anything like a real alien...
My question is, how the hell did they fit James Earl Jones into that little Darth Vader suit?
(and how did he turn into a crusty white guy after that?)
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
wrong kenny, methinks
If she floats, she's a witch.
SW-EP3 will be an animated flick, right?
One thing that the Mister Lucas has said on many occasions that that he *is* trying to get to the point of making a completely CG film that looks real; I'm not sure if we'll ever get to it, and I don't care. Yes, CGI is great and wonderful, but there is still this amazing sense of being envelped by a story that only live actors can give you.
Robert Llewelyn(sp?) may have looked like a bearskin run in his Chewbacca suit, but I think feel he was more believable than Jar Jar Binks and all his 2300 hours of rendering time. Just because something can be done, doesn't mean it should be done.
But then again, it's George's studio, he's paying for this himself.. so do we really have the right to bitch?
Eh, probably.
Hilary Rosen's speech was about her love of money and her desire to roll around naked in a pile of money.
{*sniffle*}
Robots are people too, dammit!
--
while ( !universe->perfect() ) {
hack (reality);
--
while ( !universe->perfect() ) {
hack (reality);
}
>Was the exhibit pretty cool, as in informative about the film making process etc. or just a bunch of props
It was just a bunch of props.
The exhibit isn't about how the film was made at all. It is about how Star Wars uses all these classic plot elements. There is a series of stations that explain all the parallels. To be honest, it was a little disjointed with all the displays and I didn't really get how this had anything to do with NASM. Just a lure to get people to bring their kids to the Museum, I guess.
Yeah, the Field Museum is the same one where the T-Rex is on exhibit. That's right on the Lake where the Planetaruim, Aquarium and the airfield are, right off Roosevelt Rd, IINM.
I think the exibit is still going to be there through September before it moves on, but you might want to check before you make the trip.
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
--SpookComix
You read fiction? I write it! Lemme know what you th
Dehumanizing aspects of technology, men of VISION dammit, and what else, oh yeah, rich as fsck. Perhaps we should also mention the hordes of mindless followers perfectly willing to expend hard-earned dollars, and since time is money, spending their lives making these fat old bastards fatter.
Stuff that for a joke.
--
NO TOUCH MONKEY!
Kenny Baker was not in *every single* shot that R2D2 was: some were remote controlled, etc.
However, I still find this choice rather off. If Kenny can still do the job, why not do it? How much is it going to cost to model, animate and render all the new R2 shots, vs. having KB do it?
Pope
Freedom is Slavery! Ignorance is Strength! Monopolies offer Choice!
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
I guess as a Slashdot expert, you understand the concept of "Articles," these things that they put on the default front page for all to see. Welcome to...eh, fuck it... You get the picture.
2 57&mode=thread
4 257&mode=thread
/. readers who read the articles...
It would seem, then, that you would have seen these and others:
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=99/11/04/098
More Info on Matrix Sequels
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=99/07/12/122
The Matrix to have two sequels
Moral: It's not just MY little world; I guess I was just referring to the world of
El Karma: excelente(principalmente la suma de moderación hecha a los comentarios de los usuarios)
If you honestly thought that you had to explain on Slashdot that there are two Matrix sequels in the works, this must be your first day here.
Welcome aboard.
El Karma: excelente(principalmente la suma de moderación hecha a los comentarios de los usuarios)
Oh my goodness, that would be hilarious!
"Luke, the f-f-f-force is with you...you...you." ChicagoFan
But that wasn't what I was saying. EVEN IF they had been burnt and scratched, they would have looked like burnt and scratched concept models. They didn't look functional, they looked like they were designed with extras to make them stand out in a showroom.
Look at the XWing-- even a pristine Xwing looks like it was a practical, production spaceship-- designed to fight, not to look pretty. Even the wreckage of a Naboo fighter looks like it was designed to be the most powerful-looking and fast-seeming ship, rather than actually powerful or fast. Maybe the Nabooians were dominated by their Marketting Droids.
If so, who can blame Senator Palpatine.
WTF!? There was a *guy* *inside* R2D2??
*totally aghast*
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
what about Alec Guiness and Peter Cushing?
What? There's more than one guy in the world with the name Kenny Baker? ;-)
Vote Naked 2000
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
And I can honestly say that in the dozen-odd times I've watched Episode I, I never once thought, "Hey, there's Kenny Baker." It was always, "Hey, there's R2-D2." I'm sorry Kenny didn't get to work on Episode II (Oh my god! They fired Kenny! You bastards!), but, well... that's progress.
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
In a reported attempt to keep full creative control, as well as to reduce employment costs, George Lucas is replacing his entire production staff with CGI characters.
I just can't wait to see how they explain the change in Darth from young Anakin(sp?) to James Earl Jones... sort of reverse M. Jackson?
Probably with a little CGI?
oh man... there goes my Karma...
I am become Troll, destroyer of threads
How about since he is killing everything great in Star Wars, Episode three can be nothing but Jar Jar and Ewoks! If he hasn't pissed off everyone by now, that will do it for sure!
If we don't make light of everything, we are just stumbling in the dark - Blank
Maybe they should replace the director and screenwriter with CGI as well. It would be an improvement over the Phantom Menace.
Sigh.
sulli
p.s. The theater where (I think) Star Wars opened, the Coronet, is about to be smashed to bits. I guess nothing is sacred, but who expected it to be?
sulli
RTFJ.
Just because you can do it digitally, doesn't mean you SHOULD do it that way. Special Effects are just that, EFFECTS. They are not characters, they are not personalities, no matter how good your animators are or how fast your rendering farm is.
This'll piss a lot of SW fans off, but I was very disappointed with Ep1 and don't feel that Lucas is a good director at all. He's lost his art of story-telling and can't direct worth a piss. (not compared to Spielberg anyway)
Star Wars ep4,5,6 are legends because they were brand new ideas when they came out, and they have aged in our memories like fine wines. We all have nostalgic memories of seeing these films in the theatres for the first time, many of us barely able to see over the seats. (I remember standing on my seat throughout Empire) But in this age of Titanic and Toy Story, our kids won't be looking back on Ep1, 2, and 3 with the same eye. To them, its just another two hours of visual crack, soon to be replaced by the next flavor of the month.
Bah. Gimme a director and film crew that is starving and barely making a living. THEY make good movies because they NEED to. George Lucas is fat, unimaginative and so full of himself he won't need to eat until ep3 is on DVD. (shall we bet on 2025?)
"Oh My god! They killed Star Wars! Those Bastards"
Vulgrin the MAD
I sig, therefore I am.
Granted the use of CGI's in motion pictures has truly benefited the industry, however there is definately something to be said about "old-school" special effects. :) )
Maybe it's just me, but some of the CGI I've seen recently are just too clean and shiny as compared to the model SFX of yore..
I mean I don't personally have experience with vision in space, but I would think that as light is travelling through the dust and debris of space, you probably wouldn't have a clear, distinct resolution...
(But then again to be picky, I doubt that TIE fighters had that much O2 in them to blow up so spectacularly either
Granted I'm not saying that CGI's don't help embellish movies, and I do like what they have done to help Lucas come closer to his "dream", I'm just going to miss some of the blood,sweat,and hallucinations from the model glue that the SFX team did on EP 4-5-6
-- Life: Hate the Game... Love the cereal
Actually, Squaresoft, the makers of the final fantasy video games is making a theatrical film with the same title. It will be totally CGI, and they are claiming that it will be photorealistic. There is a teaser trailer at the official website
I have seen some still images and some bootleg footage of the film that was shown on japanese television. Looks very incredible. puts the cgi in Phantom Menance to shame. While I won't say that is it photorealistic.. it is 99.5% there. Very Amazing.
I don't think there's any animosity against Mr. Baker. When George was going over the cast selections, decisions had to be made. Kenny just didn't make the short list.
--
As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.
Someone please take away Lucas' creative license before he hurts himself. Why bother with a rendered R2D2? It is going to look so cheesy compared to a real live object.
Sigh, as if the 1950's diner scene was not bad enough. Me'sa thinks Ep2 is going to suck worse than 1.
Use a low-pass pseudorandom number generator to generate jitter. Then add it in appropriate amounts to the motions of R2.
<O
( \
XGNOME vs. KDE: the game!
Will I retire or break 10K?
I see this as a continuation of a trend. Consider the recent advent of Ananova, the artificial newscaster, and the announced intention to use a completely computer-generated 'actress' in a major upcoming movie (sorry, the title and leading actor escape me for the moment). The day is approaching when movies can be made with no live actors at all while appearing to feature real humans. I can see a couple of things happening as a result: 1) actors who are completely artificial creations who never lived, and 2) living (or once-living) actors 'licensing' their images for use in a film, but never having to appear before a camera. Of course, movies will continue to be made with live humans in them, just as live theater productions continue today, but increasing amounts of content will be artificially generated, for the lower cost if nothing else. Maybe the actors can act in their street clothes and have the wardrobe added later. Maybe location shots will be a rare event. Anything is possible when you can create whatever you want on a computer. The world is definitely going to change.
When I first read this at TheForce.Net, I questioned both Baker's and the newspaper columnist's understanding of what Lucas was doing with Artoo in Episode II. From other articles, including the one of Artoo bungee-jumping, it was clear that Lucas had multiple Artoos down at Fox Studios in Australia. While it may be true that Baker won't be under the dome, I'd guess that the he was not replaced by a CGI Artoo, but an electronic one. In Ep I, when Artoo saved the Princess's ship, all the R2 Units were computer-generated, so the detail is obviously there.
Can what is formed say to that who formed it, "Why have you made me thus?"
Can what is formed say to that who formed it, "Why have you made me thus?"
"George Lucas always told me that R2D2 really came alive when I was inside him."
What the heck is this guy really trying to tell us? And I thought this was a kid's site.... [Rimshot]
-----
"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad." - Salvador Dali (1904-1989)
Robert Llewelyn plays Kryten on Red Dwarf. Peter Mayhew played Chewbacca.
There is one of the R2 Units from Ep VI in the Boston Museum of Science....
(Right Above a sign "Donated by Geo. Lucas.. Please no photography).... What a drag
-- Life: Hate the Game... Love the cereal
"I have a sneaking suspicion that if there were a way to make movies without actors, George (Lucas) would do it."
-- Mark Hamill (The guy who played Luke Skywalker)
--
"A dessert without cheese is like a beautiful woman who has lost an eye." -- Jean Anthelme Brillat-Savarin
Loyalty.
Honor.
Respect.
Generosity.
Friendship.
I'm thinking there's a decent chance that this will work for R2D2 because there's so much other footage to base him on. They can render him using old footage as a planning mechanism, and not lose the "personality" (and why pay an actor twice when you have a computer??)
If this were star wars, in 2000 instead of over 20 years ago, and they did the robot from scratch in CGI, I think they'd have a problem... they might want to call it Jar Jar.
Does anyone else feel that maybe George Lucas is moving faster than technology?
This just seems to be one more example of how he is trying to stretch technology to a place where it doesn't yet quite fit in. Yes this new R2D2 will look "cool" but I would prefer to look at it and think that it looked real. I can't imagine that this new computer generated R2D2 is going to look as though it is a real creation.
Also, I have heard that the next Star Wars movie (#2) will be filmed on digital media. This is great, but this technology isn't yet as good quality as the film they were using before. So although he may be taking a step up technology-wise, he may be taking a step down quality-wise.
Since Star Wars is losing it's old charm, maybe they can bring back the Amiga to render the new R2D2.
Yeah, I know - I a sick puppy
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
Right now CGI impresses us with its ability to create the fantastic, but CGI can only get so good before it's perfectly photo-realistic. After that, there'll be no more room for improvement, and it'll be up to the actors to make the film even more convincing yet.
ChicagoFan
I don't care how much work they put into the models, they just don't reflect/absorb light correctly.
Computer-generated charaters just suck. They just don't look or move even close to reality. They are very hard to believe and even harder to take seriors. They remove the watcher from the movie, unless it's a comedy or a cartoon.
Then they always cast computer-generated charter in this extermly lame way that just bugs me. Take that damn Jar-Jar binks, that singer in Return of the Jedi, all that crap in the 1st epoided, or that thing and that jerk on ZDTV. I removed ZDTV from my channel lists just so i will never have to see them.
Objects and fx are cool, but computer actors just plain suck.
MarNuke
-Kriticism
-PARANOIA is fun. D20 is not fun. The Computer says so.
-The Computer
...only if it means R2D2 can do battle with JarJar in his native environment and give him the de-rez he so richly deserves. ;)
Seriously, George Lucas has had some great moments -- more than anyone's fair share, really -- but hasn't he gone just a little too keen on CGI, to the point where he puts it in too frequently (even when the reason is poor, like having a CGI main character), or when another technique (like tried-and-true miniatures) would have better effect?
-TBHiX-
Even the samurai
have teddy bears,
and even the teddy bears
Even the samurai
have teddy bears,
and even the teddy bears
get drunk
Since that's the case, perhaps the only real CGI rendering will be when his head is sticking out of a CGI rendered ship. Or during explosions. Or...who knows? It's not uncommon to replace real models with CGI for stunts. Hell, they did that with the humans in "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?"
--SpookComix
You read fiction? I write it! Lemme know what you th
...i think i read somewhere that R2D2 was a big trouble during the shooting of ep1 and i bet thats why they replaced him finally. but it was always FUN to watch him move, because it looked just like a real robot. CGI just isnt impressive and it aint cute because everyone knows its cheap. It just lacks detail and soul. And star wars finally will look like x-men, or matrix and all the other cgi movies that are impresive but boring. george, u better retire!
I guess this is one definate example of where someone has lost their job to a computer!
I have been informed by a co-worker that this story is not entirely true...
While the actor is no longer doing the part of R2, it will not be CGI. Here's the story that started it all.
Evidently someone saw this and extrapolated that the droid would be inserted digitally. But they are absolutely, definitely 100% positively using an R/C version for the film: There's also another shot of a crewman with a radio, controlling R2, but I can't find the picture right now.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Lucas has always complained to have 'bad droid karma'. Maybe CGI is the cure.
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This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
All is well.
All is well.
All is proceeding according to plan.
Soon, the actor will be completely irrelevant.
Then, the audience. (they're pretty irrelevant now, anyway)
We won't even need to be there to be entertained anymore! Isn't that nice?
Then, we can fill our proper role as drones, and work twenty, maybe twenty-two hours a day, and die happy, fulfilled and content.
END TRANSMISSION
Don't ask. Go see.
Consider me pissed.
pronoblem
I believe the quote is: "If you can do it physically then do it rather than spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on computer graphics." Examples are the egg "waking up", all the sets, the shuddering during takeoff and landing, the outside shots of the derelict, Ash's death and of course the Alien itself.
Now Alien was made at a time when computer generated gfx were at the stone-knives and bearskins stage, but somehow it's aged extraordinarily well. It just has a kind of raw lifelike quality to it that you just didn't get in EP1 - you could feel the effort that went into the acting and directing.
Ironically enough, many people's favourite sequence in the Matrix is the lobby shootout - which hardly features any CGI at all (except the wire removal).
Get a grip George - work on your casting and story some more and you might have a film people like.
--- Hot Shot City is particularly good.