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Five Years of Quake
Jacek Fedorynski writes "On this day five years ago the shareware version of Quake has hit the Net and changed the world forever. There's a pretty good article about the history of Quake on Methos Quake. It's got an interview with John Romero and Tim Willits."
Q1 sucked compared to either Doom 2 or Quake 2.
Yeah, I'm a QuakeForge developer.
Bill - aka taniwha
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Bill - aka taniwha
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Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
A QuakeForge developer.
Bill - aka taniwha
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Bill - aka taniwha
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Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
- DM1: never particularly liked it.
- DM2: not too bad, but totally sucks for 2 players.
- DM3: I HATE it.
- DM4: pretty good, even for two players.
- DM5: another "lots of players" map, but it's fun (especially with rune or paroxysm:)
- DM6: just perfect
:)
Back in 96 I was able to play quake for a while (`stole' the computer from work over the weekends:) and I had my friend come over with his computer twice: first time to play coop, second for dm. During the DM session, we went through all 6 DM maps sequentially. DM 1 3 and 5 didn't last long due to their unsuitability to 2 players (3 actually lasted a little bit but IMO should have been a SP map (it's very big and the TF version just makes it worse)), 2 was okish, 4 was fun (I wiped the floor with him, but I had more practice playing quake) and 6, well, wel lasted for hoursDon't get me wrong, I'm not bagging any map out of hand, but as I generally prefer small games*, most of the id dm maps are just not to my liking.
* Mind you, a nice big, *TF game is fun, especially on a suitably sized map (until my fps drops below 15:/)
Bill - aka taniwha
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Bill - aka taniwha
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Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
Faster than on windows? On Windows quake renders faster than the refresh rate of my monitor, so I don't see how it's possible to go faster.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I have an mp3 which I think came from Old Man Murray, which I think is made by taking an interview with John Carmac (I think it's Carmac, anyway) and changing some of the words. In it, he's say stuff like "Just go ahead and continue doing crack" and "they've completely forgotten that the first time they tried it they were staring up at the ceiling and backing into lava" and "I had to tell some of the level designers to just go ahead and continue doing crack".
Anyway, I'm going nuts trying to figure out what he's saying where ever OMM substituted the word "crack".
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And if you read the interview, the interviewees seem to be acknowledging that. To paraphrase every single question in the interview:
Interviewer: It was great how Quake invented foo.
Interviewee: We made some improvements over Doom/Wolfstein that regard.
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The next Cmdr Taco duplicate will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
I and about 20 other people still regularly play quake (qw creeper ctf). The most popular server is currently madhouse.
I have tried q3a but it has too much of a spacey feel to it. I like the dungeon-y feel of quake. I also tried tribes2 but it was way too complicated to satisfy my fps needs.
SPISPOPD was apparently invented by people who were tired of discussing rumours about the then-unreleased Doom. id included the cheat code as a reference to this.
Computer games, in terms of raw dollars, are a bigger industry that motion pictures. There's little question that, though Wolfenstein-3D, Doom, and Quake, John Carmack is personally responsible for much of this success, and is a celebrity in his own right.
So my dumb question to John is: Have you ever been invited on the Dave Letterman Show? Come to that, has any major figure in computers ever been on Letterman (or Leno)? (Bill Gates doesn't count.)
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
Not even close. Apple II Wolfenstein didn't even pretend to be 3-D.
You know, I think the release of Doom might have "changed the world forever" more than the release of Quake. But, perhaps that is just my skewed perspective...
Posted from the wireless couch.
Now all games look the same! Give me the good ol' c64-games instead. Atleast back then gameplay was more important than fancy graphics and 3d accelerators.
Quake looked for the CD in order to play the soundtrack. Tho it did still work without IIRC.
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IIRC Wolf was made by Apogee, id just made the engine.
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I'm fairly sure Wolf *3D* wasn't released for the 64.
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The Devo track was really badly digitised and only played during the intro, you have a lame sid version during the game.
IIRC the C64 version of Afterburner came with a tape soundtrack to be played while playing the game.
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enterfornone - logging in for a change
hehe surely you jest!
Myst? I saw a a picture once (in fact wasn't it just that - a series of nice pre-rendered piccies) but I can't claim to know a single person who has actually played it..
tan, you old silly =)
- Revolution on graphics, 3dfx
- Improved stability for Windows, DirectX Improvements
- A major gaming developer saying Linux is important
- Improvements for some Linux drivers, John's envolvement
- Release of complete gaming engine source code to GPL
- Racing stats of the cars id employees drive
Lando/* TODO: Spawn child process, interest child in technology, have child write a new sig */
He meant that it changed the world of benchmarking forever. Before computers were tested by running Quake, the program of choice was Sublogic Flight Simulator.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I did it on purpose. :-) I just wanted the game to be something a little more dignified than "Ultimate Clash of the neferious Space slugs of hate".
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
Yep, bz. *grin*
I liked using the 'stealth' take and making creative use of cover and obstacles to sneak up on people.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
Actually, the first multiplayer 3d shooter was probably a tank fighting game that was a GL demo for SGI systems. Kind of a neat game actually. It got better as GL got better. Preceeded even Wolfenstein 3D, but it required awesomely expensive hardware. :-)
Also, the multiplayer innovations in Quake were actually, to my knowledge, pioneered in nettrek for Unix boxes as well.
For a couple of other borrowed ideas...
I like the PC games mentioned, and have a lot of respect for those who wrote them. But, sometimes it irritates me that people forget the genesis of the big ideas that went into them.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
Quake never needed a CD key. you just needed the registered versions wad files.
Those file took longer to hit the net, 28.8 and uploading that much data took time (and 99.995% of us were bleeding edge at 28.8) and many attempts.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Heh, since I was a lifeless dedicated DoomII player at the time, a bunch of friends and I gathered in our friendly neighborhood basement, broke out the Lantastic disks, and were ready and waiting on the release date. When the appointed hour came upon us, I logged into my CServe account (using my DOS client of course...Windows was for lusers) and pulled it down via my blazing 14.4 modem.
The next thing I remember, it was two days later...
There is nothing so pathetic as seeing a beautiful young theory roughed up by a tough gang of facts.
Ironically, when Quake came out, my social life disappeared! Thanks John!
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Linux O Muerte!
I've always -loved- co-op multiplayer games. Just as an example, System Shock 2, while incredibly fun in singleplayer, takes on an entire new dimension in cooperative play...with multiple players, you can each specialize in one area instead of having to be a little of everything as in SP.
-- Veni, vidi, dormivi
Where was I?
I was working at Best Buy at the time. I remember clearly counting down the hours to when the shareware was released.
When did you download it?
I hit the net the hour id said it was released. I was at work, so I had to improvise. Well, BB had a tech center that wasn't being used at the time, so I mentioned I was going to do some paper work at the front of the store (I was a Product Specialist at the time). I went into that room for about an hour and a half.
How did you download it?
I tried over modem first, as that is what everyone had at the time. FTP sites were slow, and there was none of this FilePlanet B.S. as we have it today. I tried to go direct to my machine, but the FTP site would have none of that, so I telnetted into an university account I had at the time I was admin, and did a FTP session there.
How long did the download take?
To the university? Oh, about a minute and a half. Seriously, back when only the select few had broadband, it rocked. To get it home from there, oh, I would say about two hours. But, not much outbound traffic at that university ;-).
First impression?
My computer really that slow? Damn, I need some new gear!
Man, those were the days....Bryan R.
Bryan R.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, or $12.50 as seen on eBay.....
It seems to me that I remember playing Marathon from Bungie back at the end of 1994 or early 1995. There was a demo that was released with two or three levels and we had a good number of folks in biology and genetics that would get together for a good net duel on Friday afternoons in eager anticipation of the release of the full product. The grenade hop and the rocket launcher were awesome.
Does anyone know what the timeline was for Quake versus Marathon? I may be wrong here, but Marathon seems to come first in my mind for the first person 3D shooter. It may be that Bungie was developing for the Macintosh and fewer folks were exposed to it at the time, but the story of Bungie goes something like this: A few great programmers and artists get together and make a few killer products on the MacOS (Pathways into Darkness, Marathon etc...). Company decides to move development to Windows in addition to MacOS to make more money. Linux comes along and company starts developing for Linux. An awesome looking program begins development (HALO). Another company, M$ decides they want to own the game console market. M$ buys Bungie and HALO is forever lost to Linux, and possibly the MacOS.
At any rate, I would appreciate any info from those who remembers Marathon and know of the development timeline between Marathon and Quake.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
I just remember being at a mall in Saskatoon Saskatchewan seeing the Doom shareware running in demo mode in a little computer store and my jaw hitting the floor.
P ag es/DoomHistory.html
t .h tml
I went on the BBS I was subscribed to and started looking for the shareware as soon as I got home.
This would have been spring '94. I had played Wolfenstein but hated it because I could never tell where I was in the maps. Doom had stairs and levels and lot's of different textures on the walls and floors so you could really learn a map easier than you could in Wolfenstein.
Quake was really just a logical step up from Doom with it's more realistic 3D environment.
Doom was the real groundbreaking game that really started to impress people with what computers could do with graphics. And gave great fuel to the imagination of what we might have in the future.
The first DooM shareware was released December 10 1993. There's a more complete history here..
http://myweb.worldnet.net/~bdevaux/Doomoscope/S
and here...
http://doomworld.com/pageofdoom/thegame/doomhis
The bastards released it during finals week. I set up a spare 386-40 in the frat house and it was played 24hrs/day for that whole week.
Oh yeah, I remember when Quake came out too. It did like 0.5 frames per second on my 486-120, so I never *ever* played it again. That machine would play Descent just fine.
It was hard to find people who were willing to play Descent. It seems too many people were made physically ill by the realistic nothing-is-up-or-down environment.
My favorite part was when you blew up your opponents their "goodies" would float there for the taking.
The first game I really got into was Doom, but my passion for it faded away. I got back into some serious gaming when Quake II came out. The OpenGL graphics were amazing (compared to Doom, or even GLQuake) and the game was nice and lightweight for the hardware at the time.
QIII was a nice progression but honestly, and I speak for myself, what I enjoyed most were the multiplayer Q2 co-operative games, where up to four people could do the same mission at the same time.
hell, how about:
* establishing OpenGL as the de facto 3d platform for the next couple years, ensuring that directx didn't totally swamp the market right away.
yes everyone uses directx now, but everyone still has FULL opengl support with their cards. it's a given.
stupid question -- just how many of these "un-article-related" (per se) posting forums are there?
Karnal
Descent 3 was released I think 1½-2 years ago, so it has not died yet.
The "six degrees of freedom" refers to the ability to move in XYZ, and rotate in those axis as well. To move along an axis is one degree of freedom, the rotate around it is another. It's not called "six DIMENSIONS of freedom" but instead "six DEGREES of freedom". Nobody is implying that there are six dimensions, but six degrees of movement freedom. It's an old flight-simulator term.
Quake lacks some of these degrees of freedom in rendering in that the character can't tip their head to the side. For movement, you can't tip forward/back or right/left.
It may not often be appropriate to do so, but there is a difference as compared to a game like Descent where you can point the ship in any direction.
As to the issue of the character moving, or the map moving... It's a common rendering trick to move the map around a zero point. It simplifies a lot of the calculations. Many modern engines do this. In fact, this is just a minor detail that these days is wrapped up in OpenGL or DirectX, it's about as unimportant as the specific graphics format used to store the textures.
You are correct that Doom wouldn't do floor-over-floor. In fact, in wouldn't let the player and a monster intersect. You couldn't jump off a cliff if there was a monster right underneath.
This however doesn't mean anything about the 2d or 3d-ness of the rendering. Technically, any engine for which you have to specify a 3rd dimension in the rendering is a 3d engine. If Wolf3D it had a 3d appearance, yet all the ceilings were the same height, etc.
In Doom, there was definately a height stored for each sector, the floor and ceiling could and did change, small passages, huge rooms, etc.
It was a 3d engine, but it was a 3d engine with a lot of limitations.
The name "2.5D" was used to describe these engines (Doom, Duke3d, etc) but it's not a technical term. It basically means that the engine has some sort of limitation, such as 2D maps, or no floor-over-floor, or walls at 90-degree angles, etc. It's not a technical term though, there are no 2.5D engines, 3D engines which are described that way to illustrate the limitations.
but quake gave us killcreek nekkid ;)
Actually, I'd suggest the first commercially successful 3D shooter was Descent.
Definitely full 3D and precedes Quake by quite some margin as I recall. Pretty successful, too.
Problem is it's been forgotten because it wasn't in the same mould.
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
I suppose the question is exactly how an FPS is defined here. I certainly remember Doom and Descent being compared.
If you're requiring that you simulate a view from a person nominally running around an arena then it clearly misses. I would suggest it only truly requires a shoot-em-up game where it sits as a first-person view in a 3D world of some form, on which grounds Descent qualifies admirably. But yes, it's largely a different gaming paradigm so I can understand why it's sometimes forgotten.
Oh, BTW, I found it almost unplayable until I got a Cyborg 3D. With a decent stick it's actually pretty simple, it's just that it doesn't work well with a keybaord and mouse.
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
Somebody mod this guy up, because he hit the nail on the head on one reason why Quake was _really_ important. Sure the 3-D engine was impressive, but the multiplayer improvements brought-on via Quakeworld were a huge revolution.
Before Quakeworld the big games at the time, like Duke Nukem, required you to join gaming services (TEN) and pay monthly fees just to play a laggy game on the internet. Then came Quakeworld: you could play a superior game with some of the best networking code around for real internet conditions (latency & dropouts) for FREE!- No monthly charges. That's right, no monthly fees because freely available Quake servers seemed to pop-up everywhere.
After Quakeworld, all the other 3D shooter companies followed suit with their own internet network server for their games, and the pay-for-play gaming services died away quickly.
Hmmm, and think how many Voodoo cards Quake sold!
Quake was the first network / on-line code that let you join in the middle of a game, players could come and go and the games would never end.
This is not the case -- back in my school days I remember playing Xpilot over the net at all hours of the day. You could join in anytime you wanted, send messages to teammates, customize the look of your ship, etc. There was even a worldwide ranking system. Xpilot has been around 10 years old now, and introduced (or at least expanded on) some pretty cool innovations.
Check out the story of Xpilot at http://www.acm.org/crossroads/xrds3-2/xpilot.html.
DM3 is undisputed for teamplay I agree with that.
DM6 is a little to big for 1-on-1's. DM4 is the premier dueling map IMO. DM2 being awesome for 2-on-2s as is DM6 I conceed.
The domination side is what makes Quake fun. One minute you're running the RL's and you're King of the World, next minute you're shit under your opponents shoe. It creates more tension than Counterstrike ever will.
And come on, DM1?
The credit for the greatness of Quake is often shared between John Carmack (for his technical prowess) and John Romero (for his design skills). I, however, believe that the real genius behind Quake was American McGee. He made the two awesome maps (DM2 and DM4). Admittedly DM3 was Romero's creation.
IMO, Willits is a 'YES' man of the worst kind. He made DM1 (wtf?!) and the passable DM6 but is lauded like some sort of major contributor.
If you look at the following games that each of them made, Quake II for Carmack, Daikatana (stop laughing at the back!) for Romero and Alice for McGee, I think it is apparent who had the flair and imagination to push boundaries. Even though it was made within a corporate enviroment Alice was still refreshing and innovative (although not without flaws).
He's just started a new company and I await its creations with baited breath.
He's dead right. The Christmas letter of 1996 from Carmack explaining why he wasn't going to "waste his time" porting Quake to Direct3D was one of the most influential documents on the future of OpenGL and gaming. It sparked a fierce debate on the merits of Direct3D vs OpenGL and ensured that hardware-accelerated cards supported OpenGL (since Quake was selling so well).
--- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
Heh, I remember playing it with crazy hillbilly banjo music once - very surreal. It was really good with a CD of Gregorian Chants in.
The original soundtrack was by Trent Reznor, though, and it was superbly atmospheric. much better than Q2.
dave
...I lugged a pile of disks to my friends house to copy the last files. We had cooperated on downloading it from a BBS (last program I downloaded from a BBS by the way) and it was in the range of 20-30 disks...found out that some disks were broken as always and had to go back to do some more copying....but finally it was working on my computer...those were the days...seems to be more than 5 years ago though...
To within half a percent, pi seconds is a nanocentury. -- Tom Duff
Actually, I don't think he was saying that Quake caused the industry to stagnate, but that the industry was stagnating when Quake came along and re-vitalized it. Yeah, I read it that way the first time, too.
And computers are just a bloated rehash of television, which is just a bloated rehash of radio, which is just a bloated rehash of the written word, which is just a bloated rehash of people using their imaginations for everything.
Who the hell modded this 'insightful?'
I'm surprised Quake's success isn't more appropriated to John Carmack. The game engine of Quake I/II/III are very advanced from previous engines. The concept is perhaps not new, but the technology involved has made leaps and bounds since 1992. Game engines that John Carmack have created have almost entirely created the need for personal 3D video cards, a very huge industry nowadays. John Romero is a storyteller within a society that is loaded with storytellers. John Carmack is a 3d engine Guru that has created the de facto standard for what is considered a GOOD 3D engine.
I could give a shit about the story. I've read hundreds of books that offer me a story of one theme or another. Stories are good, but Quake (and other FPS games) are interactive. You are the story. You live it, you decide it. Especially games like Counterstrike, ones where you play the role of something more based in reality, but the ending and journey are based on the players' actions alone.
I see the FPS genre move towards large interactive multiplayer themed games, where the players work together as a team against either other players or an aggressive and challenging AI enemy. For a slightly eh example there's World War II Online (extremely buggy). WWII Online is also an example of what happens when a 3D game does NOT step upon the shoulders of John Carmack. It's engine is HORRIBLE. No matter the amazing plot, theme, and realism of WWII, because the engine is quite buggy and ineffecient, the game will not be as successful as it could be. Poor Cornered Rats (the developers).
Salis
Favorite
I would like to at least hear some proof besides no it doesn't.. yes it does.. come on.. I agree with original poster quake did introduce mainstream programming and modability as well as kick the 3D accelerator market in the ass. Come on, before that there was the 3D decelerator known as the virge.
JOhn
Campaign for Liberty
Wow... This takes me back. I wasted soooo many hours during my freshman and sophmore year of college playing Quake I/II online.
"Finish programming project, study calculus or frag someone? Frag! I don't need to sleep tonight." : )
We are blind to the Worlds within us
We are blind to the Worlds within us
waiting to be born...
No, Ozzie made your child bit the head off a bat :)
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microsoft, it's what's for dinner
bq--3b7y4vyll6xi5x2rnrj7q.com
it's a sig, wtf?
Castle Wolfenstein was just a bloated revamp of the old Castle Wolfenstein for the Apple II (and Amiga, i think).
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microsoft, it's what's for dinner
bq--3b7y4vyll6xi5x2rnrj7q.com
it's a sig, wtf?
Quake The Movie. Politicians, and politically (in)correct parents would have a field day with it. "Quake made my child bite the head off a bat!"
Want Root?
I would say Myst has done more for 3d graphics than Quake has, and Nintendo did some really cool stuff with games like Legend of Zelda, Metroid, etc., Quake just hit it on the nose by being a really great interactive game.
Want Root?
Everyone remembers in Doom how if you strafed along a North-South wall that you moved faster.
Well Descent had that bug in 3 dimenions! You point turn righ 45 degrees, and point your nose down 45 degreees, then move left+forward+up and you moved at 3x the speed !
The other problem with Descent was that it was peer-to-peer. (You would see people disappear then re-appear on a bad con.) You could hack your client to make yourself invulnerable and there was nothing no-one else could do.
The fact that the very first reason why "Quake changed the world" is NOT a quake innovation does not inspire confidence in the rest of the article. There were Internet games such as Netrek that allowed players to join and leave games in progress at arbitrary times, and likewise did not have scheduled time limits -- a game was over when one side lost its last-planet stand.
Only the dead have seen the end of war.
This is like the second time I've ever laughed out loud at a slashdot post.
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python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
I don't remember where I was when Quake was released, but I do remember what it felt like the first time I saw OpenGL quake! DAMN!! It was on a Monster card, created by 3dfx [sniffle], with 8 Megs of ram, if I'm not mistaken. Talk about a renaissance!
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python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
yea. I was never blown away by quake. I quickly got bored and never even finished the game...
but Doom and Doom2, now those were some amazing games for the day!!
I can still hear the Doom soundtrack in my head, just in the same way the soundtracks on Super Mario Brothers for the NES and Tetris on the gameboy infected my brain.
These pretzels are making me thirsty.
Ah, so you're the one who actually looks at the banner ads :)
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Never mind Spamassassin. When's Spammerassassin coming out?
- lets assume "world" means "US pc gaming industry" [remembering that outside the US significantly less games are FPS.]
- lets assume that anyone agreeing with this line of thought got into pc gaming only after the pentium processor was widely in use.
- lets assume that no one recalls that duke nukem 3D had excellent multi-player capabilities, ran well on 486s, offered both on the ground and arial combat, and generally blew people's minds.
- lets assume that descent somehow doesn't qualify as an FPS or as a revolution even though it distictly offered 1st person perspective and much shooting, and it had a full 3D world with 3D models as targets, a [confusingly] 3D map for real, and of course a full 6 degrees of freedom/confusion.... not to mention network play, all on a lowly 486 long before Quake was really real.
- Then lets assume that Quake was not a belated catch-up effort to incorporate the better descent style engine, and fuse it with the rather non-fun [the second time] Doom style game play. And toss in some internet functionality that was only just becomming consumer feasable.
Only then can we agree that Quake changed the world forever. Now Q3... that's a fun multiplayer game... though Tribes has some more developed playing.-Daniel
"Don't worry, He sucks with grenades" -- Xenoc's last words, Q1 DM 1997 Cause of death: Pineapples =]
esses? dis? romeovoid? unet #quake?
things like this make me miss hardfloor.
Fps is an average taken over a length of time. Of course if you stare at a wall like Raymond (Dustin Hoffman) your monitor is gonna limit your time resolution. Try one the "crusher" type demos for quake1 to see your minimum time resolution (an oft-neglected metric).
Hmm, well I think you're on the right track, but a few details are missing. First, DooM & co had 3D engines, alright (even if the entities were sprites), but most map makers tend to describe DooM and Duke3D engines as 2.5D. You have two whole complete dimensions. The vertical axis was highly simulated. (Somewhat analogous to using animated sprites in a 3D shooter to make them look 3D.) What I mean by simulated is that it was some sort of programming trick. Remember in Hexen where if you looked way up or way down in a corner, the angle of the wall corner (usually 90deg) changes to something like 30deg?
The map-editing program for Doom engines provides more evidence... the map you created was *always* 2D and the engine merely rendered it to approximate the 3rd dimension. The closest you could get to 3D was stairs and platforms, by "raising the floor" those areas in the editor.
but Quake was the first COMMERCIALLY SUCCESSFULL 3d shooter,
Most of us go ahead and refer to Doom as a 3D shooter, since it faked it pretty well. But it didn't have a true 3D engine, (like Quake does) as I've been yammering about above. Second, Quake was not the first commercially sucessfull 3D shooter, Doom was, by leagues. Quake just seemed to have a much more dedicated audience among the hardcore gamers.
The Monster card would have been either 4 or 6MB's of RAM, I think. 4 sounds right. I only remember that my friend had a Monster but I got a brand-spanky-new Canopus Pure3D which had 2MB more RAM than the Monster.
Of course, I bought it specifically for Quake.
Hmm. Well I remember cruising about the internet on my Pentium 100 with 24 megs of RAM (barely following having my first non-Compuserve type of internet access) and hearing about all this raving of Quake. I downloaded the 9MB demo (on a 14.4 modem, this was an acheivement!) and fired it up. It wasn't too impressive at 320x240@256 on a Pentium 100, so I stashed it away and got hooked on Duke Nukem 3D for a good many months. When I decided to drag Quake back out of the C:\DOWNLOAD directory, I fired it up a second time and began wasting most of my teenage life.
See post below about my getting a Canopus Pure3D merely for Quake alone.
The single best multiplayer gaming experience I've ever had to this day were the countless hours spent late at night dodging snipers in Quake TeamFortress.
ts also almost 5 years to the date that my grades started slipping, and I started failing all of my classes. But those all-night frag-fests were worth it, eh?
Ah, so that's what they mean by "changed the world forever." The braindrain of millions of college-grade would-be engineers in North America and Europe. This is a good thing?
[
This truth however, does not stop us from honoring what you guys did in making something that really was an incredible piece of work that did change a lot of things. While they weren't necessarily "firsts" they were important in being the trigger for a lot of changes. It doesn't matter if you guys invented 3D or multiplayer, what matters is that you guys created one of the best loved games of all time, and it's something that should be celebrated. Thanks for all the great work, and I hope for more great stuff to come.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
....sleep i remember back in the day when i was able to go to bed at a reasonable hour, and since the induction of quake, more and more games came along, Half Life, Quake 2 & 3, etc etc. Sleep is for the weak?
tourettes
I remember this: "What are they thinking? Why would they give something like this away for free?"
Where were you when Quake was released?
Got Rhinos?
I don't put a lot of stock in pinning down "firsts", even though people in general, and the media in particular, love to harp on it.
Everything is built on past work.
A lot of people like to think of creativity and innovation as something that springs from the void, but the truth is that everything is traceable to its origins.
I consider myself fortunate that I am consciously aware of the process. I can dissect all of my good ideas into their original parts, and even when there is an interesting synthesis, the transformation can usually be posed as an analogy to some previous work.
Given that fact, you will rarely find me touting anything as a "first", because I could always say it is "sort of like this thing over here, but with the principle demonstrated by this over there added to allow it to give the feature we wanted back then" and so on.
There are the occasional "eureka!" moments, but they tend to be in twitchy little technical things, not the larger ideas like "3D environment" or "multiplayer gaming".
I'm not all that concerned with our place in history. The process has been interesting enough in its own right, and lots of people have enjoyed the work as we produced it.
John Carmack
Tragically, the death of Danielle Bunten probably means MULE will never rise again.
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Book(n): Utensil used to pass time while waiting for the TV repairman
Wolf 3d was just a revamp of catacombs 3d.. Don't fuck with me, I know my Apogee/Id/etc. etc. history..
Click here to read too much about my personal life
Bots are your friends, dude. I've been playing Counter-Strike for a while using RealBot when I want a quick game for practice.
--
PaxTech
All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
Descent, the frist 360 degree game that requires skill was the game that kicked off this technolgy. Not quake. What kicked off quake of course was Wolf3D and the like.
The reason I think Descent didn't catch on as vivid as Quake and the like did was cuz the average gammer couldn't handle descent. Most of my friends couldn't figure out controls in a manner that proved usefull. (I loved my old Gravis phoenix! the throttle needed a spring tho). So most of the ppl I knew just gave up and went for the easy point and shot and hope to kill games like Doom and Quake.
-- Jason...
That would work, except sometimes it's nice to play with no lag. :)
Oh, dear God, you're evil. Now I have that bloody song going through my head... Doo-doo-doooo, da-da-doo-da-doo, do-do do-do do-do da-do-da-doo...Make it stop. Argghhh.
If a corporation is a personhood, is owning stock slavery?
Most of this isn't true. Quake wasn't the first multiplayer game to really be popular on the Internet, it wasn't a technical revolution for a game to include a scripting language or allow customizations, etc. Quake featured little technical innovation. That said, it did have have true 3D, customization abilities, and networking in a package that you or I could run. It was delivering these things together for the masses and the commercial success of the game that made the biggest impact.
If a corporation is a personhood, is owning stock slavery?
I still have a copy of "Castle Wolfenstein" if anyone is interested.
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Sig
abbr.
Karma stuck at 50? Add 2-5 inches.. err.. 2-5x Karmas Count to your pen1es.. err.. Karma all naturally and private
I still have my copy of "Wolfenstein 3D" for th C-64. Should it be in a museums? Nah! Bill G. is more qualified.
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Sig
abbr.
Karma stuck at 50? Add 2-5 inches.. err.. 2-5x Karmas Count to your pen1es.. err.. Karma all naturally and private
Z in graphics is depth. Period. Say "you know, Z is supposed to be up" to an old SGI hacker and he'll roll his eyes at you.
.plan files somewhere. He spells it all out there.
Yessir, this is the only factual statement in your whole post. However, you seem to imply that since Doom has apparent depth, it must be 3D.
No. Ask yourself this: In Doom, do you have X,Y, and Z all at once? Sorry, no. In Doom, your character does not move at all. It is the rest of the environment that changes based on your input. Carmack himself said that Doom is not 3D. But its not exactly 2D either. The rendering techniques simulate something I think he called 2.5D. That is, yes, you can move up a flight of stairs, but anything directly under those stairs is solid. There is no closet behind the stairwell.
Sorry bub, you're wrong. If you'd ever bothered to develop maps for games like Doom (or Duke Nukem 3D heh), you'd know full well that Doom was absolutely positively _NOT_ 3D! Ever notice in Doom that there are NO spiral staircases, or true multi-tier structures. Whether you are shooting on an angle or not is entirely pointless. Imagine an apartment building with balconies outside every floor. In Doom, it is impossible to build this structure, as it is a true 3-dimensional model. You cannot start in one room (1A), then go up a flight of stairs and wind up in 2A. You _CAN_ in Quake. Doom uses some cheap hacks to make you think you can do so, but you cannot map one floorspace directly above another, with a hollow space inbetween. Looks like Carmack did a pretty good job of his quote "2.5D" in Doom. If you knew a damn thing about actually creating an environment in Doom and Quake, you'd know immediately what I was talking about. Thats why in Doom you can't have the aformentioned apartment building, but you can shoot at an angle.
And sorry sir, but a real 3D game does not have 6 degrees of freedom instead of 3. Unless you are a time traveller, degrees (directions, pivot points, angles) are a function of 3 dimensions. A true 3D game has 3 major degrees, the X, Y, and Z axis. A true 3D game has infinite degrees of freedom, just like real life. How do you get infinite degrees of freedom? Thats your function of X, Y, and Z, man. Also, a computer generated 3D environment has NOTHING to do with the pretty graphics, whether sprites, skins or texture maps. Its not necessary to fully render vines on a wall in 3D since its just for decoration anyway. And you said it yourself. Skins are wrapped around hollow cores. For a thing to be hollow, it must have 3 dimensions. Quake uses skins wrapped around a "hollow" frane, Doom uses 2D sprites. Would it make you feel better if those hollow frames were solid instead? Why abuse the graphics engine with polys you'll never see?
As for that swimming comment, I assume that you mean that you can't swim naturally in Quake (as in face first, feet last). I think you are confusing whether or not Quake is 3D with its game physics. Is there any compelling reason to position a model this way to swim? Not particularly. This would force the model to have a higher poly count so it can contort itself into this position. Polys are a big factor as to how hard the graphics card has to work (less unnecessary polys=good). Its not practical to render this in 3D when its such a unimportant factor of gameplay. But the fact is there is no reason that the Quake engine can't support this. If you've seen some of the cooler taunt actions that some user-made models have, you'd know that.
Funny, I learned all that shit doing Doom and Duke maps as a 14 year old, and I could grasp the concept perfectly even then.. Why can't you?
See if you can find an archive of Carmack's old
What could possibly hurt the security of the American people more than giving our own government the ability to hide its
The first stable release of Quake for Linux should be out soon.
-gerbik
Ahh, but you're missing the point. Nobody cares about Single-player quake. Quake was the first multiplayer game (besides text-based muds) to really be popular on the internet. QuakeWorld is actually playable on a modem, and people still play it to this day. Quake also featured its own programming language allowing people to totally customize it, which I believe was a first at the time of its release. This allowed Quake to spawn a vast community of high-quality user-created mods such as Team Fortress, Future vs. Fantasy, Capture the Flag, Clan Arena, etc. Quake really laid the foundation for the popular online games of today, such as uber-popular Counterstrike.
Semantics == information. Mine was accurate; it's yours that's degraded.
Semantics has been behavior for as long as I can remember....
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boris at darkrock dot co dot uk
chris at darkrock dot co dot uk
http colon slash slash www dot darkrock dot co dot uk
And mere seconds later the first Q1 CD key hit the Net. Ahh, the halcycon days of client-side key authentication were great, weren't they? *sniff*
I don't suppose that's where that weird-seeming cheat code came from, eh?
(It troubles me that I actually remember it...)
-Erf C.
-Erf C.
Cthulu always calls collect...
Doom and Wolf3D are great milestones, but I was playing First-Person-Shooter type games as far back as the TRS-80 (Dungeons of Daggorath -- First person POV, wireframe graphics, and you move a cell at a time like Ultima or something). Granted, there wasn't any real shooting, but...
An even better example might be Stellar 7 or its ilk; the game where you're driving a tank around shooting up enemy tanks and cubes and things. :)
-Erf C.
-Erf C.
Cthulu always calls collect...
I loved Doom growing up. I leeched it off a bbs and grabbed my 4 disk copy of doom (at 2400 baud) and played it secretly (on my dad's gateway 486sx/33) for many hours fearing my parents finding out(my parents eventually caught me but they didn't actually care). When doom2 came out I again leeched the 5 disk version of another bbs. Things were good. I soon hooked up with a bunch of people to play modem doom (at 9600bps but while using a 14.4kbps) (and later ipx) both dm and coop. One of those people soon became one of my best friends.
w that I can actually afford it. Q1 and Doom still are the ultimate when it comes to FPS, both single and multiplayer.
A few years later Quake came out (idcracked it off the shareware cdrom). Lucky for me my dad worked for the gov't and for some reason they had money to buy new computers and he got a p60 with 16 megs of ram. What a beautiful machine. I got the supa-l33t dos tcp/ip hack and could now play quake online by hitting a website with a semi-current list of servers and writing them down, exiting to dos and starting quake (-maxheap 16000 baby!) The coolest part about the illegal tcp/ip hack for dos was that you could ping fine to the server but all the death messages would queue up for like 5 minutes then dump 100 lines to the console. Those were the days of playing until 5am and going to school at 7am. Soon I was able to convince my parents to buy a p166 with 32 megs of ram and win95 so I could actually play the game like normal people (err learn to program...yah). I even cracked quakespy/gamespy so I could get the full feature set (my cracked version still works).
This new computer along with quake and my hate for community college finally forced me to quit school after repeatedly getting absolutely terrible grades semester after semester. I had been working as an IT tech at a few companies (mostly to play quake on better hardware and use their net connection) so I decided to go full time into IT. Now I am a 21 year old (started at age 20) IT Manager for a pre-ipo biotech company (with umm, lots of probably worthless stock options) making a really nice salary and I owe it all to Quake.
In the end doom/quake:
1. helped me make friends with people like myself including my best friend.
2. taught me to pirate games
3. helped me to learn to program
4. got me intrested in IT (for the unaudited high speed connections)
5. got me to pay attention to hardware
6. landed me a management job that pays well and potentially could make me a millionaire (but I am not holding my breathe!)
Personally, being able to point all my success at a couple games makes me sad...but oh well =)
FYI, quake2 sucks. Is it just me or did anyone who liked q2 never actually play q1 or doom multiplayer? I paided for q3 (must...stop...pirating...games...I...enjoy...)no
... and changed the world forever
Don't confuse you're world with the real world. It may have changed your world, but there are billions of people whose world didn't change 1 bit. I would even say out of the 6.2 billion people 6 billion people didn't care.
Please save statements like "Changed the world forever" for things that actually changed the world. Not to mention I don't think you can change the world for a week. Misused these kind of statements loose there impact.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
To be fair to both Descent and Quake, they are very different games to play. Its true that the innovation of Descent's engine was a big advance, but the complete freedom of movement made it an absolute pig to get the hang of (in my opinion; you may well have had better luck with all those controls). As such, its more like X-Wing with walls than what we regard as an FPS today.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
"most important PC game ever" I dont know if I agree with that. While I played my fair share of Quake, I still think that plenty of other games were equally or more important. Also, there is a lot of talk about how unique the game was. Considering that quake stole a lot from DOOM which stole a lot from Wolfenstein 3D, it wasn't all that original. I personally didn't like single player quake (although I spent many hours beating quake 2). It might have added a lot as far as online gaming goes, but it seemed like a small jump to me, from online games before it. I didn't play all that much online quake, but online Duke Nukem 3D and Warcraft 2 and Red Alert claimed months of my life.
As far as other important PC games go, I would like to mention a few, feel free to chime in with your own.
- Warcraft(1 and 2)
- Tetris
- SimCity
- Star Wars Tie Fighter
- Red Alert / AOE
thats just to name a couple. I guess Im just not the quake fanatic that some people are.What made Quake really different than say doom or wolfenstien was the multiplayer code. After playing quake online with other ppl I've have since been unable to play a single player game. The amount of fun to be had trying to outsmart some static computer algorithm pales in comparison to trying to adapt to other real players. Quake was the first game to have infinite replayability. As proof of that I still play the original quake1 today avidly. ...the game looks like ass..whereas with just plain old glquake where you have a fixed set of colors from an 8 bit palet you have a much cleaner looking game and hence it's easier to interact with.
I'm not too keen on anything else Id or anyone else has produced in the fps area since making the game look nice has since been the primary goal of those game developers. And making it look nice and having it playable are contradictory imho. Take for example the way good q3 players play: gl_picmip 5
1 - Wolfenstein 3D, 1991
2 - Doom, 1993
3 - Quake, 1996
Wolf 3D was a revolution, and Doom was a huge step from Wold 3D. Quake was a minor improvement, but a huge commercial success.
Although it's getting closer to 8 years now, don't forget the 5 Years of Doom retrospective I did back in late 1998...
--come'on.
--Quake isn't a huge step from Doom. Yes, it is better than Doom in some technical ways but as a game it (and Doom for that matter) are not terribly different from Space Invaders or Asteroids. [It's you against a never ending supply of baddies coming at you.]
--FPS hadn't changed much from Wolfenstein. In terms of importance I'd rate Zork, Pirates!, Sim City and Civilization MAGNATUDUES higher than Quake.
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This
That John Romero chick seams to be doing pretty good.
I think it would be sufficient to say that the popularity of Quake, the original, really added a lot to the stagnating gaming industry 5 years ago
"Anybody who tells me I can't use a program because it's not open source, go suck on rms. I'm not interested." (LT 2004)
Personally I think the 'games are stagnating b/c Quake was successful' reasoning is crap. If games are stagnating, and that's a big if, it's not because of their popularity. Small niche groups do a fine job stagnating all by themselves. Look closely at the history of technical innovation.
Running to 7-11 to get the Quake demo... Bragging that by running Quake in linux I got 3 fps more than in windows... Hearing the words "Stop evading me, you BASTARDS!" from the dorm room across the hall... Future vs. Fantasy!
wishus
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I wasn't referring to the cheat, but the ficticious game behind the name of the cheat.
But you're right, I missed the last P, but at the same time, the actual cheat was idspispopd, not spispopd.
J
But the truly l33t were all over Smashing Pumpkins into Small Piles of Putrid Debris (aka SPISPOD), which essentially "[was] to DOOM what DOOM was to Pong."
J
This terrible event, the brutal and unwarranted attack of the peaceful people of the Soviet Union, is a sign of the evilness to what the whites are capable of and should be remembered forever so that something like this will NEVER AGAIN happen.
Fortunately in an increasingly multicultural world whites will be marginalized more and more and other more peacefully inclined peoples will get the chance to make their mark more visible upon the world.
Germany declared war on the Soviet Union, and 40 million people died in the course of if. Countless more suffered. Shouldn't this be remembered today?
It has been for some time now.
MSIE: The world's most standards-complaint web browser.
Glory to the day when young Carmack stood before his first video game arcade and wished "Gosh! I wish I could do that!"
Hats off to you! Thanks for making a difference. And I am gonna sue your ass for making me waste those countless hours (till daylight broke) pummeling through hordes and hordes of demons and grunts.
Rapid Nirvana
I feel a little sad that people's worlds are so limited that a shoot-em-up computer game even registers as world-changing. .
whatever is - the music is
From what I remember, id noticed the wave of mods. People had reverse-engineered file formats, types, etc, and hooked their own stuff to it. Rather than sue the living bejeezus out of them, id encouraged them. That model is worth emulating.
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
I believe Battlezone (circa early-80's) was the first 3D game, followed by Stellar 7 on the Apple ][+. Let's hear it for pale blue vector rasterization and green-monochrome-phosphor wireframes!
I liked Quake because it had that badass Trent Reznor soundtrack, which I still listen to every few months. I think the only game with a soundtrack by a major musician prior to Quake was something David Bowie did... can't remember the game, but it was pre-7th Guest days... sometime in 1990, right when 66MHz 486DX2s and CDROMs were becoming ubiquitous...
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https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
Anybody got any other game quotes?
Microshaft still OWNZ JOO!
SIG: HUP
it may have cost me a year or two on campus ... but, hey, whose counting.
i thaught that i had things covered and was usually one of the fraggers (as opposed to the fragged). my skillz that i brought over from doom really helped.
a definite bonus of the game was that on the campus network where none of the machines had hard drives, most of us played off the same copy in the network drive (usually a hacked drive cos we were only allowed a meg or so for space.)
well ... things were going well untill some guys started using the mouse. they were so much faster than me. my doom & heretic skills only prepared me for playnig with the keyboard. well ... i didn't take too well to the mouse ... and reduced my quake time. it was actually a blessing in disguise as i started to pass :). i use the mouse now ... i learned to use it on aliens vs preditor ... i loved the feel of that game. so, i aint too bad at Q3 ... but i don't even try to play the pc on hardcore. thanks to the fact that the newer games require 3d card, quake is still big on campus cos the macines there don't have such luxuries. Here's to doom 3 ... i hear that the guys for id'll be releasing it soon ... hope it'll work on a K62-400 :)
doom1 is a hell of alot better in many area's.
The graphics are better, it runs on a 486 and quake1 requires a good pentium for really smooth gameplay. Just look at the screenshots for the two. Doom is partial 3d becasue all the maps and code use x,y,z axis but I know when you go foward the game is just zooming in with the apearance of 3d so some say its not really 3d.
Anyway I consider doom1 more fluid and 3d like in actual gameplay. Its just so smooth and I like the bobbing up and down in doom. It makes you feel like your really walking. The only negatives are you can't aim up or down because of the 2d/3d issues and there is no real internet support. I tired playing doom1 with kali on an old 28.8 modem and it was painfull. Kali was an old novel ipx emulator to trick doom1 into thinking it was on a slow lan.
But because doom1 did not rely on polygons due to the 2d code in the engine, you can have alot more detail without slowing down your computer. I remember corpses everywhere and all sort of detial which gives you the creeps. I also loved the music on doom1. I found quake1 music just distracting. Doom1 with its creepy music, dark atmosphere, lots of gory detail was jsut creepy and changed the game industry forever. It truely created the market of 3d gaming.
Today I would like a modern 3d engine with some old 2d code mixed in from 1 for things like gory detail. The reason why quake1 had empty hallways with just nice wallpaper was to keep the polygon count low. I hope doom3 lives up to its reputation.
http://saveie6.com/
do { spawn_alive(); run(); shoot_rapidly(); get_shot(); die(); } until TRUE==FALSE
You would think people would get bored
The release of Castle Wolfenstein would be an anniversary worth mentioning; not this.
Then you've got to be talking about Marathon. Sure, it was only for the Macintosh for the longest time, but not only did it manage to include some amazing 3d engine work (for the time), it had a plot.
By "3d" did you mean "2d"? I thought so.
"And like that
Just look at methos quake page. Watch the demos, read all the crazy stuff that happens. No other game took off like Quake. Here, methos says it better:
At least the doppelgangers helped drive 3D PC video card development - for whatever that is worth to the real world.
"This is a Linux-free zone." - me
I love Marathon and am enjoying the new mod Rubicon, but it's not 3D the way Quake is. You can look up and down a little bit, but you certainly don't have 360 degrees. I've never seen directly above in Marathon. As far as storyline goes, Marathon beats Quake handsdown. But when I want to shoot the shit out of something, nothing compares to Quake. The engine is much more fluid, and just feals more realistic.
- toe jam football
the CD had not more than 30 or 40 MB of files
Quake's full install: 75 MB, Quake2's full install: 400 MB. (just checked both)
"// this is the most hacked, evil, bastardized thing I've ever seen. kjb"
"// this is the most hacked, evil, bastardized thing I've ever seen. kjb"
The elements that they (i.d.) used to "initially make the genre great" was to create games the fans wanted to play, NOT games that would fly off the shelf at wal-mart. I.d. knowingly took a risk by releasing a muiltiplayer-only title, and suffered a loss in sales compared to what your ideal version of Q3 would have been like. The success of Q1-Q2 multiplayer stood testament to the viability (though at reduced sales) of a multiplayer-only game, and fans like myself were eager to see them refine what I enjoyed most about these games. While I can sympathize with the people who wanted a massive single-player campaign, I applaud the rare gaming company these days willing to take a risk to create something for their fans, not what a publisher thinks is "hot" this week.
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." -Voltaire
There's such a thing as compression, thus, the size on the disc will almost always be smaller than the install on an HD.
room101 -- how much can you stand before they break you?
(they always break you eventually)
It's been 5 years since a good video game has been released! Geez. :)
- Aiming proxies
- Campers
- Lusers who complain about packet latency
- Hundreds, if not thousands of lame imitations
- Massive hardware requirements for *every* game, regardless of genre
- Game developers who are more concerned with game-engine mechanics than gameplay
- dozens of lame gaming comics
- CTF jokes
- Daikatana
Need I go on?The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
Yes, Quake might feel like another doom clone. While not initially impressed by Quakes graphics or game play (although good) , what made Quake was TCP/IP. Who doesn't remember their first time joining a server hundreds of miles away and fragging people you never knew. Kids today don't think twice about doing that with Counterstrike/Q3 etc, but it used to mean something. We used to have LAN emulation with things like Kali and the like, and the games WOULD NEVER WORK. Yet we'd keep trying. I think I maybe had 1 playable game of DuekNukem on Kali in 3 months, but just the fact I was playing was cool enough. Now if you have an 80 ping, players bitch of Lag. I only stopped playing Quake last year, but its amazing how far online gaming has come since, and due to, Quake I. Long live Quake I, tonight I'll drink to you.
When Stevie Case aka Killcreek - the multifragging playboy bunny who's dating Romero - entered the quake scene.
Here's a nice picture (go on, just click it, I know you want to...)
-Kraft
-Kraft
Live and let live
#1 I hope you are sitting at home programming some AI into the game you plan on playing in 10 years. If you start now you might be able to get it up to a tenth of the current level of your average 11 year old Q3 player. In other words, I am playing the game now that you want to play at home in 10 years. Suspend your belief and pretend that you are playing bots, with some nice AI.
Quake has many benefits: 1. By keeping punks inside playing quake the crime rate drops. 2. Playing quake during the day reduces your exposure to damaging UV rays, reducing your risk of cancer. 3. Reduces stress at work during LAN quakeathons, keeps workers from really going postal on co-workers. Can anyone think of any more? -ted
Quite simply, Quake 2 is the best First Person Shooter created, ever.
Its too bad the people at id listened to the extremely vocal minority of 'hardcore' gamers that couldn't adjust to Quake 2's more cerebral style of gameplay and they made Quake 3 far too Quake 1 like.
Ah well.
You never saw Beaver Cleaver try a rocket launcher jump! Nowadays you cant go anywhere without being accosted by a gang of 13 year old miscreants with BFGs. Back in my day...
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -- Carl Sagan
I think a lot of people really underestimate Abrash's contribution to Quake.
I remember standing around the only PC with net access in the Egghead Software where I worked, watching the ftp site as the qtest files got uploaded... we set up a 6 person network in my house that stayed there for 2 months. Everyone just came over after work and ate whatever and played Quake...
Quake got me into this industry, really... I might never have learned networking if I hadn't had to troubleshoot that damned BNC network.We had old AnselNet NICs that should have been identical but weren't... had to start the server from a PC in the middle of the BNC chain because of the lag at the ends.
those were the days!
Whatever happened to JonKatz?
Wow, what a coincidence! Its also almost 5 years to the date that my grades started slipping, and I started failing all of my classes. But those all-night frag-fests were worth it, eh? Hm...I wonder if the release of GLQuake has any similarities to my getting kicked out of college...
I remember first playing Quake: it seemed to me like just another Doom clone, a "genre" that was very popular in the time.
Took me some time to realize that Quake was by id, then playing it again 'cause "if it's id, it's good".
Now don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Quaker, but I agree - The original Quake wasn't a really big step from Doom.
I like work. I can sit and watch it for hours.
Bill Gates Has No Penis.
No you aren't. I'm not especially interested in the intellegence of my opponents. (The singleplayer bot mode of Q3 is one of the single most worthless piles of hookah I've ever played in recent years)
...they have commited sacriledge. :)
Some of the best elements of the fps, for me, were always the exploration and puzzle solving. People can, and have, gotten away with poor ai when they coupled it with genius level design.
Quake III style games are, almost by definition, more of the same, more of the same, constantly.
Sigh, its a matter of personal preference really, but it stinks of laziness on the developer's side (Quake II, Halflife, for example, were brilliantly done.) But if they release a doom title without a storyline... (Many fighters come together for great justice! isn't a storyline)
Someday, Quake will live in infamy as the game that clued in the software manufacturers that they could make multiplayer-ONLY trash like Quake III and still have it sell out. Multiplayer is nice and all, but I'd still like to be able to play an interesting game without a net connection... or in 10 years or so, when no-one else is playing.
Not intended as a flame to Quake fans, but they've knocked out some of the elements that made the genre initially great.
sorry to rain on your parade but the original cheat code was spispopd
Quake is beautiful, Doom was brilliant, but nothing changed my world as much as the first time I played Wolfenstein 3D on my friend's 368. That was truly a life changing experience. Especially having played the two original Wolfensteins on my C64.
Freund Lieben!
Invisible Agent
Invisible Agent
This post is a mirror; when a monkey stares in, no hacker gazes out.
Don't know if it had been posted or not, but, yes doom was 2.5d. You did have 2 dimensional aspect including height, but, recall that height was not "true" height. I.E. You could not jump over a character (I'm thinking those damn demons) if they were 500 stories below you. Yes you were "above" them, per se, but the "character's column" was blocking you. Frustrating, but Heretic took care of the "column" problem. Only thing was, that was it. You could jump/fly over stuff, but there was no depth to the characters. Maybe Heretic was 2.75D? You had 3d movement, but the characters were 2.5d...humm, interesting. Moose. Academic/Prof. : "In theory..." Slimy Car salesman: "Trust me...."
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
Quake in it's grandest form has become the epitamy of 1st person RPG experience. Though it may have taken an idea established in even Wolfenstein 3d, it did it any a way that only Id Software could have done it. I believe that quake has been, and will continue to be the precedence for 1st person shoot-em-ups.
Three revolutions:
:P
> 1 - Wolfenstein 3D, 1991
3D immersive environment. Impressive!
> 2 - Doom, 1993
Multimplayer!
> 3 - Quake, 1996
True 3D and Internet, but the most important is:
Quake-C !!!
People can alter the game on every aspect,
Not just new maps, but even total converted games.
After Quake there is nothing new...
But who needs more? Quake is perfect!
Thanks iD, you saved my life!
Wolfenstein 3D and Doom were larger leaps for gaming than Quake was in terms of gameplay. I could really care less about what technology is involved or how commercially successful Quake was, these are games we are talking about. With that in mind, Wolfenstein 3D was for many people the first game with a true "you are there" feeling. They didn't care that there weren't any polygons, but they were amazed by the unprecedented feeling of immersion the game had acheived. And Doom had an ungodly creepy and nail-biting atmosphere that was unmatched when it came out. Being critically low on health and not knowing what horrors awaited you on the other side of that door was an unforgettable experinece for me, and Quake failed to live up to that.
Quake quite simply didn't up the ante very much in it's time. Sure it was "REAL 3D", and tons of people bought it, but who cares? Titanic had unprecedented special effects, billions of people saw it, and I still didn't like it. Quake didn't offer a whole lot of new stuff to the FPS genre compared with Quake and Wolfenstein 3D. Screw technology, I judge games by more important criteria.
Doom wasn't a true 3d game. It simulated 3d, sure, but it wasn't. The Z axis in Doom was non-existant, but appeared that way due to some clever hacks.
For instance, in Doom, it's impossible for one object to be on top of another object. For that matter, it's impossible for anything to be off the floor. Even those things that look like they're flying (the Cacodaemons, the Lost Souls, etc) aren't; their sprites are just offset. Try to walk underneath one -- you can't. You'll run into an invisible wall.
This doesn't even get into the architectural issue: because Doom didn't have a true Z axis, it obviously couldn't have spaces on top of other spaces...no bridges you can walk under and over, for instance. No spiral staircases.
Then you've got to be talking about Marathon. Sure, it was only for the Macintosh for the longest time, but not only did it manage to include some amazing 3d engine work (for the time), it had a plot.
Shocking, I know. But that's why li'l ol' Marathon still beats out Quake [II[I]] in my book. Now that it's open sourced, it even has OpenGL support. All it's missing now is some good ol' TCP/IP networking...
MQWCL doesn't comply with the GPL license which the quake source was released under which I think is a disgrace towards the GPL
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"I believe in karma. That means I can do bad things to people and assume they deserve it" - Dogbert
Haven't really been keeping up with things...is this anything like Pong?
But what about that name? Quake? I mean sure it's a household name now -- I don't even think about the meaning of the word but when I heard about the game I expected some kind of spelunking game or at least some Duke-Nukem style earthquake effects.
m00.
In my belif, if it woulden't have been for ID software and Quake the Shoot 'em up game genere would probably have been looking alot different today...
The game inspired my friends and I so much that I just had to drain my bank account and take on unmanageable debt to make a 40 min documentary on the subject. Visa is still threatening me.
http://www.pringo.com/quakers.html
Best game ever!
Why can't you realise that it is never ever the parent's fault? Hah, hmmm.
Pimping my Karma Whore since 1847.
What are you, a total retard?!? It is at least somewhat a parent's fault, no matter what!