Slashdot Mirror
Another Xbox Anatomy Lesson
Keith writes: "Icrontic.com has taken apart, examined, and modified an Xbox. In their latest article, they point out some debugging leads on the Xbox, and a possible USB hack. The Xbox is looking more and more like a PC." A lot of the investigation here is incomplete; watch this space, because it won't be long until Xbox surgery is commonplace.
Could this be used as a (relativly) cheap X Terminal?
Look at it! the hard drive even has a red to one IDE cable for gosh sakes, its a PC that looks like a console, what a clever company though, get a pc, package it as a console and call it the most advanced console ever (altho they did ignore the diffirence between RISC and CISC chips)
smart company, shitty product
Microsoft IIS is to webserving as KFC is to healthy eating
site's slashdotted - google cache dont have it.
--insert joke about Icrontic running xbox here--
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
Possible? VERY MUCH SO. It's already been done to the PS2 for less than 20 bucks.
This site has tons of system hacks.
Didn't everyone know this? games are essentially written for a slightly (if at all) modified version of DirectX8 from what I read somewhere.
:)
which is a good thing, since that means the time it'll take to port HALO to PC should be very short. I'm just hopeing they revise it from feedback from the X-Box first.
The Xbox being a PC inside really isn't a bad thing anyway, except it brings up the price. this way total know-nothings can play PC-quality games on their TV too
If you're hearing rhetoric about Linux, open source, or Mac and everyone's bashing Microsoft, you've found Slashdot.
K, is this site being Slashdotted already?? I can't get on.. bah!
Yeah, Who wants to place a wager on wether or not Microsoft is going to try to take some legal action against the authors of that article for reverse engineering their proprietary hardware?
-- www.RoachMcKrackin.com
Wow, google's really running slow today, huh? I usually get all my latest CNN stories from there, then I post back to slashdot from another cached google page.
Grumble, Grumble
HardOCP have also ripped the guts outta the xbox, and their server seems to be a bit more responsive as well.
Plus I trust the hardocp guys a bit more than the average "look maw!Ii'm on the interweb!" reviewer
So if the XBOX is just a PC what are the chances of hacking it so it can use bleem to play playstation (PSX) games.
:)
It'd be fun to see microsoft embroiled in a copyright dispute from the other side
In other console news, Hong Kong has hacked the gamecube into playing pirated games burned onto MINI-DVD or CD-R formats. They have developed a CD/DVD addon and use the Gamecube's expansion ports to implement it.
Pretty quick if you ask me.
thats all i could think of when i saw the standard hard drives in there. 100 gig's. Say that would hold a lot of music.
Then i saw the heatsink and thought overclocking. Overclocking the xbox and changing the components to fit your own needs. Sounds a little open source to me.
The Xbox has some pretty good hardware, and the price is very good. Microsoft is selling it at a loss, I think around $100 per unit(of course, they have plenty of cash so losing money doesn't matter as much as gaining market share). This could make them quite cost effective price/performance wise compared to just buying stuff off the shelf in a cheap pc. I read somewhere awhile back that someone was trying to make it so the PS2 could be used to render stuff, and the Xbox is supposed to have slightly better hardware power. If the Xbox can be hacked to run linux(shouldn't be a big deal, since it is supposed to be a lot like a PC), and get some more connections stuff(like with this USB) then it may be worth getting one/few to connect to a network as an extra GPU. Linux being an OS of choice for the MS Xbox. Mmm, that irony smarts doesn't it...
Each "flavor" will be a different color, but will have the exact same internals, just like they do with their other products.
Grumble, Grumble
That's Funny.
From the other Slashdot link to techtv , the innards of the Xbox show a Seagate hard drive. This one, however is a WD. Different brands of HD in different Xboxes?
I would think that kind of odd - wouldn't it be cheaper to just use one brand?
Never. It's common information that MS is selling the box cheap to get more cash on the games. If you're buying the box but are not going to buy the games, why should MS give a rat's ass about you? Actually it's kind of ironic - microsoft is selling the xbox so cheap that the cruelest thing a microsoft-hater could do to microsoft is to go out and buy the box and use it just for cd's, dvd's and stuff like that. That would mean no profits to microsoft.
I'll wait for the emulator. I figure if a PC is running it, it won't be hard to make MY PC run it
You really need the pictures to do it justice, but here's the text:
:).
The Guts
[picture of xbox w/ cover open]
Here's what awaits you under the hood. If you've come this far, you have now voided your warranty, congratulations. After this, just take out the hard drive and DVD-ROM and you're in.
[pictures of two IDE hard drives]
Microsoft is actually using two different kind of hard drives in the Xbox. One is a Seagate ST310211A U Series 5 10GB hard drive. That's right - 10GB, not 8GB like Microsoft claims. The second kind, which is the kind we got, is the Western Digital Protege WD80EB, which is a 5400RPM 8GB drive. The Western Digital drive is not listed on Western Digital's website. It appears some people are getting the 8GB Western Digital drive, while others are getting the 10GB Seagate drive. We tried plugging the hard drive into a normal computer. No operating system will recognize it. No surprise there, it's probably a proprietary filesystem. This will be pretty easily circumvented, however, and you should be able to hook the Xbox hard drive into your computer and get files off of it. I'm working on a program to do this.
[pictures of motherboard]
Microsoft is nicely silk-screened on the motherboard. How cute. Also note how there is a silk-screen for additional memory. There are two more silk-screens on the back of the motherboard as well. Apparently Microsoft sent out development kits, which had 128MB of memory instead of the 64MB of memory that comes with the retail kit. That's what these silk-screens are for. Perhaps Microsoft will release a future version of the Xbox with more memory. If you're a very skilled solderer you could actually solder additional memory chips onto the motherboard. I was also surprised to find that there was no shielding on the power supply unit, and no active fan on the CPU.
[next page]
Motherboard Features
[pictures]
Here's the little riser card the controller ports plug into. Chances are you can modify this to connect some kind of USB hub to it. We're still working on it.
[picture of circuit board]
Notice the "DEBUG" silk-screen? I wonder if shorting that lead lets you enter the BIOS. We still have to test this.
[pictures of power cables]
The Xbox has an AT power cable.
[next page]
Onboard Chips
[pictures of chips]
The nVidia MCPX3 Southbridge and a Samsung DDR memory module (specsheet located here). The nForce uses AMD's Hypertransport technology.
[picture of chip]
This is the Conexant video encoder chip, which performs DVD video decoding.
[pictures of heatsink and GPU]
Underneath the heatsink lies the nVidia XGPU, the video GPU of the Xbox.
[picture of Celeron]
Intel has their BGA mobile Celeron 733MHz with a 133MHz FSB on the Xbox. It's impossible to take out without some serious modification.
[picture of thermal paste on motherboard]
We took off the thermal pad that was on both the GPU and the CPU and put some nice thermal paste. Now it's ready to be overclocked
[next page]
Back of The Motherboard & Conclusion
[pictures of back of motherboard]
Here's the back of the motherboard after we took it out. Note the two silk-screens for additional memory.
[picture of tape]
These little pieces of tape are on the back to prevent the board from getting scratched by the metal casing.
[picture of ATA100 cable]
And last but not least, we tried to substitute an ATA100 cable in for the Xbox's ATA33 cable. Unfortunately, this did not work. The Xbox would not even show an error message after we did this. The motherboard can support ATA100, but Microsoft must have the motherboard programmed to only allow the hard disk to run at a certain transfer setting. Too bad.
That's where we are right now. There is a lot of potential here for hacking this machine. It can be done. I think the debug trace will open up a lot of options once we learn how to use it. This COMPUTER does have a BIOS, and there must be some way to get to it. It's also possible to wire in a USB hub into the controller riser card. We're still working out the wiring for this, and once we get it to work we will share the process with you.
I think it's definitely possible to upgrade the hard drive. I'm planning on ghosting the data to another drive. I'm sure someone has already tried this, and if you have please email me and tell me if it worked or not. What we're also going to try is upgrading the DVD-ROM. We're going to put a computer DVD-ROM in the unit, plug the ATX power connector into a running computer, and plug the IDE cable into the DVD-ROM. Hopefully it will accept the new drive. Chances are it won't, though.
Microsoft appears to have hard locked what kind of hardware is allowed on this machine. That doesn't mean it can't be hacked or tricked to allow upgrading. It's only a matter of time before someone figures it out. The Xbox IS modifiable, we just need to figure out how.
If you're interested in modifying your Xbox, or if you would just like to chat about your Xbox, please check out our Xbox forum. I will be monitoring it and giving advice and tips to help you modify your Xbox. Please share what you've done so we can figure this thing out!
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Wow, i didn't see that coming, didn't make the connection.
damn MS is smart, I'd mod you up but I'm a karmaless kiddy
your point really does make me think though.
If you're hearing rhetoric about Linux, open source, or Mac and everyone's bashing Microsoft, you've found Slashdot.
...slashdot sure seems to have blown its collective load several times over since the XBox's release.
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Could MS have made a mistake here? Basically, they are putting a (stipped down) PC into a console package. With the console selling less than WinXP (depending on, well a lot of stuff) what is to prevent everyone from re-tooling the Box into a cheap-ass PC? Not to hard even for novices at this point, I'd think.
Perhaps more is not better this time?
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Provided that the modifications required to run Linux, doesn't break the XBOX features, it would be great to have a dual Linux/Console for only $300...
Looking for any old 8-bit Heathkit/Zenith software/hardware - http://heathkit.garlanger.com
Is it just me, or did the Hard OCP XBox use a Seagate HD? Yet this one is Western Digital. Following my experience with WD I'd wanna be damn sure my XBox has a Seagate in there if I buy one.
:) Anyone got any insight on either of these things?
Wonder what the file system is in there too? Unless it's a proprietary one it must be pretty damn easy to upgrade the things yourself (in which case I'd shove in a sizeable Maxtor pronto). Hmm, and for that matter, I wonder how hard it would be to backup the data on the HD somehow?
- icemind
All consoles mainly differ from the pc by their Unified Memory Architecture. This basically means that all of the hardware shares the same memory so the latency between the various parts is nearly zero. Basically your graphics card and cpu use the same memory as your sound card. Xbox just takes the top of the line graphics card and eliminates the bottle-neck of pushing numbers to it. Don't kid your selves the first genaration titles look better then PS2 and weren't designed to truly take advantage of all the xbox can do. Later games will look MUCH better. Of course, the true secret is in the sauce. If the games aren't fun what does it matter how much better they look. It's why nintendo is still alive. They make good games.
Well I hope these things don't crash at inoppourtune times like their PC games are renowned for doing. I can't even fathom how many times a windows game crashed on me right before or as I was saving it.
Interesting... I hope they DO! Microsoft is entering a new world here, and they'd better have a rock-solid product. People may put up with Windows crashing twice a day, but console owners will not. Doesn't matter how much of a loss they're selling it for, if it's buggy, they're toast.
"If he thinks he can hide and run from the United States and our allies, he's sorely mistaken." Bush on bin Laden
That line about console owners not putting up with their consoles crashing is bunk.
People used to BLOW in their Nintendo carts to get them to work!!!!!! Same with Atari.
freelinuxgames = /file/dev/mouse eh?
:)
Nice maneuver there slick.
Real neighborly.
I don't know what would irk me more, you being an M$ fan w/ a little linux knowledge; or you being a linux user w/ the same mentality as the goatsex link crowd.
Either way, nice attempt.
(thank Zod for USB mice
...when it gets down to fundamentals, do what you have to do and shed no tears. Dr. Matson in Tunnel in the Sky
...slashdot sure seems to have blown its collective load several times over since the XBox's release.
/. saying that we've figured out how to get linux, a X11 server, and SDL ported onto the Xbox. It would be like shoving a million needles in microsoft's eye when it happens.
And why not? I think MS is irrelevant to the fact that it is indeed a cheap alternative to the PC once we get the internal workings figured out. In these hard economic times, who wouldn't want a cheap PC?
And what would make us blow our load harder (and Bill Gates top higher) than an article on
Of course, there is the argument that we're just throwing money back into the devils pocket. Actually though, we're not. MS is taking about $100's loss per unit. With Linux running on it, it would give game developers an alternative to MS licensing on the XBox. You see, every game company that want's to make a game for any console system has to pay the console maker a royaltee on every game they make. So if we get the Xbox figured out, we could really start fucking with MS's head.
One last reason to blow a load on the Xbox, it's just PC hardware, which I myself really understand well myself. Sure I could be taking apart a SunE250 server, but who has the money or the access to one? Even if you had access, my boss would certainly look at me strangely if I had a screwdriver near anything Non-PC in the enterprise class of hardware.
Hope you enjoyed that, please aim your load away from me now.
Irony # 1: Paying M$ money (buying XBox) in order to run Linux on it. They'll be laughing all the way to the bank. I guess techies will find any excuse to conveniently forget why they hate MS - just offer them tech candy and they submit.
/. about how ironic aforesaid misunderstood course of action is. Joke's on you, my friend.
Irony # 2: Doing #1, then thinking somehow you've won a victory for Open Source. And then, posting on
-Kasreyn
Kasreyn: Cheerfully playing the part of Devil's Advocate to hairtrigger
BUT.........
Just a few days ago there was another discussion at this fabulous web site about hacking the XBox, and several people pointed out that M$ uses various encription techniques in this machine which makes hacking incredibly difficult.
Perhaps before people start spanking their monkeys for a second time thinking about hacking an XBox, they should recall the discussion following the first article.
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
this is classic slashdot - the parent to the post that I'm placing here states facts - and then because they are against the ideals of someone with moderation power at the time - what is a valid and good post gets modded down.
now had he reversed it and talked about how apple is this and that - but backed it with no facts, it would have been modded up.
hence why I visit slashdot less and less these days.
(admittedly I will come back to see this get modded down b/c I dissent)
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
I'm just waiting for someone to port Linux to the X-Box. That would be, without question, the greated console hack ever, difficulty of porting nonwithstanding.
They that quote Benjamin Franklin on liberty and safety deserve neither.
>I was also surprised to find that there was no shielding on the power supply unit, and no active fan on the CPU.
Regarding the CPU fan: it's got a big one. It just happens to mounted to the chassis right behind the heatsink. Of course, it also happens to be the system fan.
Regarding the power supply shielding: there's no need for it since the box is not intended to be opened by the consumer.
Hmm, I would not hold my breath waiting for a Halo port although, I would bet eventually someone will come up with a X-box emulator for the PC.
It is kind'a funny everyone talks about how easy it should be to port X-box games and don't realize the real potential is in an emulator.
I mean the thing is basically a PC anyway, regardless of the changes they have made if they can make a PS2 emulator then it has to be easier to make an X-box emulator.
With the controllers being USB if you have a PC you should basically have an X-box as well.
I personally think this whole "it is like a PC therefore it is a huge advantage to developers" is in reality a huge disadvantage for MS, since if I can obtain an emulator and the controllers plug into my PC, what is the advantage of getting an X-box again?
my $0.02
Of course how much of this is technical and how much is MS pressure to lay off on other versions of this "Only for XBox" title is yet to be seen. And even if it is in DirectX 8, there will be a chunk of work getting it to OpenGL for the Mac version, although they could just outsource it to The Omni Group like everyone else:)
"Reality is just a convenient measure of complexity" -Alvy Ray Smith
Considering them irrelevant and technically backward hurts them FAR worse, even if it is true. And the XBox is technically backward- frame rates are poor for a console, and it's early days to be talking about reliability. Don't waste your time on the silly thing. Buy paintball equipment instead- now that's a game ;)
Because we can.
--
The Cap is nigh. Time to get a fresh new account.
Microsoft (and all other console makers) sell the actual hardware at a loss and make it up via the software/games. Do they care if someone creates an emulator for the PC that will run X-box titles? Nope... well, they probably would... because people will figure out a way to pirate games and play them on the computer. That's a whole other issue though.
I think the original poster meant that the launch developers were "rushed" to get their titles out, so they weren't able to make all the tweaks that later developers can do. Usually the difference between "generations" of games is fairly vast. Look at the PS1 (yes PSOne) launch titles and look at the ones being released now. The developers have learned in the ins and outs of the system, what it is good at, what it is not good at. They have developed libraries of code to reuse. This is what developers can do with a machine that remains constant for over 5 years.
On the other hand, since X-Box is basically a PC, I don't know if the differences will be that great after the second generation games. From what I hear, PS2 was hard to program for because of its multiprocessor design, so the differences between the launch titles and today's games are fairly vast since the developers have gotten a handle of things now.
Wouldn't it be great if people figured out how to port Linux to the Xbox? It would end up being a Microsoft-subsidized Linux server appliance and server farm component. What more can we ask for?
Why would MS go to all the trouble of building a console which is almost a PC, and then "extend" Windows XP to allow those games to run on a PC?
Then they have to support two separate streams of game APIs - one into the XBox OS, and another into XP.
Why not, instead, use the XBox as the games platform, and slowly wean the gaming APIs out of XP (or just plain not develop them any further).
That way, MS get the gamers using a console (fewer of those nasty CD cracks and copies floating around), while only the "serious" computer user uses the "serious" PC running XP.
Even if the XBox is hardware hackable to turn it into a PC, how many home gamers are going to turn to hardware hacking and risk losing the use of their console?
With each breath in, a flower somewhere opens; with each breath out, a flower withers away. In between lies beauty.
XBox is looking more and more like a PC because it is a damned PC, with a few tweaks and a TV instead of a monitor. XBox is just a trojan horse to get Microsoft inside the homes of people who don't want PCs. XBox, UltimateTV/WebTV, and the short-lived MSN appliances are/were all trojan horses to get Microsoft through the door and closer to the drawers where PC non-users keep their checkbooks.
== Paul Rickard, Editor of The Microsoft Boycott Campaign ====
Slashdot loves hardware that somebody is helping pay for.. It includes everything from hackable bar code scanners (thanks Digital Convergance), pre programmed internet terminals (thanks I-Opener) and now hackable PC hardware (thanks Bill).
The truth shall set you free!
GET A LIFE!
Wow slashdot's gone downhill
Slashdot, the site where everything's made up and the points don't matter
I actually found that link insanely funny. If you're such a low user number and you fall for that old trick... hehe... Hope you're not admining anything important....
While it's true that MS is losing money on the hardware, any purchase of the hardware will help them achieve the exonomics of scale that will allow them to reach break-even (or even profitability) on Xbox. By the way, this is standard console practice; the Playstation 2 was also a loss leader at its intro:
Driving down production costs will be a determining factor in profitability over the next five years. According to most estimates, Sony's PlayStation 2 cost the company $450 per unit upon initial production in early 2000. The company had first sold the machine as a loss leader for $360 in Japan and for $300 in the United States and Europe. The strategy paid off with the first Play Station because Sony was able to reduce the product's cost from $480 in 1994 to about $80 now (it was initially priced at $299 and is sold at about $99 today). Meanwhile, the company sold about nine games for every console. That model allowed Sony to make billions of dollars over the life of the PlayStation, even if it lost money at first.
source: Red Herring
While estimates say MS will lose $2 billion on hardware before break-even, much of that could be recouped in games from Day One, and the hardware should itself become profitable relatively soon.
I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
Second, do you honestly believe an established multimillion dollar game publisher is going to risk MS's wrath by publishing games that run on the X-Box but are unlicensed? Not to mention the legal ramifications if a publisher decides to skip on the royalties. Sure, I expect the X-Box to be hacked, and yes, we might get PC games to run on it and all of our other software, but I seriously doubt any of the big publishers (e.g. EA, THQ) has the balls to stand up to MS and release unlicensed games designed for the X-Box but not anywhere else and just release it as is. I'm sure that the publishers have some competent developers around that could reverse engineer the consoles, but there's a reason they just don't release unlicensed games.
Anyway, just some thoughts. I'm not saying that MS's move into consoles is necesarily bad, but this is just a broader strategy to increase their goals of dominating new areas and increase their growth. I also personally do not believe MS has a chance against Sony, and from the looks of things, maybe not even GameCube. Their hardware does look very nice, but I don't know if they can hold out for the long haul without itching to build a new device too quickly.
OK, put your mouse over the submitter's name (Keith). The link is to Icrontic.com. But that's also the site he points us to in his post.
I wish the Slashdot editors would check to see that the story isn't just spam, promoting the poster's site.
qslack.com
I'm also keeping a close eye on the preferences page for an "XBox" section I can uncheck so I don't have to see these useless stories anymore.
-Legion
only a matter of hours before someone has linux hacked onto it.
"Its not GNU, its X-BOX!"
I put on my robe and wizard hat.
AOL, M$, what's the difference?
I don't know about the PS2, and I don't believe the GameCube has fans, but the XBox having 2 fans isn't totally a good thing. We all know that fans are very unreliable in the long run, so unless MS sprang for some very nice (and expensive) all-ball-bearing sealed fans (which I doubt considering how much per box they're losing) I can see more than a few fans failing in a year and some nasty warranty issues. Dust and fans don't mix, and with no filters, and open vents to the outside, I wonder...
jX [ Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler. - Einstein ]
and it's even a low-end PC: it's a fairly unimpressive processor, and they're not even using the highest end video cards available, which is, of course, crucial for a game console.
the use of DirectX is another thing, however. in terms of PC compatability (not interesting to me, since i don't use M$ ever, but it's still a market factor worth talking about), it helps alot, and that's really apealing to a game designer. the problem is the M$ doesn't know crap about portable code, so DirectX is pretty closely tied to x86 architectures, without major work. which is why they put an Intel chip in there, which costs them in terms of performance. which does not look good to a game designer. it remains to be seen whether they made the correct tradeoff.
what i'd like to see is someone design the game interfaces around something more cross-platform, like OpenGL. that'd open the way to more games on more platforms, and PCs running varous OSs. but most console makers don't want that. M$ was willing to "compromise" with DirectX because they own the only other place it runs, too! (excluding small, not-really-relavant-to-the-market hack jobs for other OSs, with poor performance and not-quite-finished functionality)
i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
dont get the wrong Idea I once ran windows 3.1, 95, and even the horid "me" and faced the most odd program crashes that made acid trips seem boaring. . but really I feel out of tuch with people that say windows crashes all the time now days because it simply does not crash much at all with windows 2k and XP . . it is pretty dam stable. And when people say .. "blab blab bla>> blue screen of death. . bla bla bloated software buggy. . etc . ." I just feel out of tuch with that realitity microsoft should be criticied for innistialy releaseing such shity software but now can only be considered evial because of their anticompetative practices not for shady software development.
Any X-Box owners out there that can testify to the existance or absence of any sort of EULA for the hardware? Microsoft is somewhat famous for their software EULAs, would it be so supricing to find one on the X-Box?
I've looked at the boxes they come in, but short of buying one I haven't been able to check out the included liturature. Perhaps one of you can stop gaming/hacking for a moment and actually read the paper waste that came with the box.
Not that it will make a difference one way or the other. But you figure they have to know there's a hacker community out here just waiting to rip this thing apart. If not, I'm sure it will be a real i-opening experience!
I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it.
"In these hard economic times, who wouldn't want a cheap PC? "
1. Xbox are in high demand. It doesn't matter how cheap its going to be, good luck in getting one.
2. If you have to do major changes to the hardware, then you have enough skills to build a computer for about the same as a Xbox. Its not all that powerfull inside, Celeron 733/8 gig hd/dvd.
3. It would be much better to work on the Gamecube or PS2. Make another system better.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
One interesting thing, though, is that it seems like all of the consoles have the standard "50,000 blocks" of memory to save games and music on the XBox. Where are the additional blocks for the 10 gig system? (Or less blocks for the 8 gig?)
I don't know about anyone else but I am getting tired of the comments without reason, don't get the wrong Idea I once ran windows 3.1, 95, and even the horrid "me"/"98" and faced the most odd program crashes (well computer crashes) that made acid trips seem boring. . But really I feel that people are misinformed and uneducated when they say windows crashes all the time now days, because it simply does not crash much at all with windows 2k and XP . . it is pretty dam stable. And when people say .. "blab blab bla>> blue screen of death. . bla bla bloated software buggy. . etc . ." I just feel out of touch with that relativity. Microsoft should be criticized for releasing such shity software in the past but now can only be criticized because of their anticompetitive practices. Let me know if you agree with this. If so could people please bash Microsoft without sounding stupid, there are so many evil things that Microsoft can be criticized for, why get stuck up on something that is no longer true.
OpenBSD has now been ported from your kitchen sink to the XBox. Yet in much astonishment to the BSD team, the kitchen sink *still* crunches more RC5-64 keys per minute than the XBox.
- The Xbox is still cheaper than even the cheapest PC. This makes a difference at the low end of the market.
- Unless you buy a bunch of parts, it's not all that easy to buy a PC without M$ getting paid for a pre-loaded OS.
Let's think about the state of the world, 6 months from now. The Xbox is completely hacked, and loading Linux takes about an hour per box. If I'm running a business that needs low-cost desktops (or even low-cost servers), I might be tempted to deploy Linux Xboxes.I'm not saying this is the universal answer for everyone, but we are looking at the latest attempt at subsidized hardware in pursuit of a captive software market. I see nothing wrong with taking advantage of subsidized hardware if I can escape from software captivity. If M$ doesn't like it, then they can price the console at a level that reflects its cost.
IMHO: Of all the companies that might attempt to market unhackable devices, M$ would be dead last in their ability to pull it off. The only time-tested method of making unhackable devices requires the use of non-standard (expensive) components. This drives up the per unit cost, which is unacceptable in a subsidized hardware environment.
it's not like you were bitching about people with good old file://con/con trick to crash win9x.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Hard OCP's disection of the unit has a seagate hdd - but the other site's xbox had a wd hdd. Does anyone know why?
Microsoft will most certainly bust out the DMCA on you and have you arrested.
You have been warned.
M$ shareholders would most certainly demand prosecution under the DMCA. M$ will be forced to act.
Aeh.
The only problem with this argument is that no matter how many XBox's MS sells, it will NEVER make any money unless it sells games. If everyone had an xbox just to use it as an X11 server, MS would have to leave the console business. MS's problem isn't selling the consoles; they need the games. The console that has the best games will win this "war." The consoles don't sell the games, the games sell the consoles. How many people bought PS2 because of GT3? Or bought it because MGS2 was coming out for it? How many excellent games does the xbox have for it right now? I know it's just the launch titles...but MS has a lot of catching up to do.
I dunno who it is
but it prolly is fhqwhgads.
I can't www.icrontic.com for the life of me.
/. effect continues.
And once again the
Hands down the killer title.
And they will come out with more. By that time, if people do buy a Xbox for other reasons, then you can be sure that they will pickup one title. There wouldn't be a reason not to.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
What would happen if you turn your PS2 off while it is writing stuff off to the memory card? probalby the same thing would apply to the HD while the system gets shut down.
kawai
733 MHz Celeron? ATA33 cable (and drive I assume)? 10 GB drive? as a friend said, its an eMachines computer in a black box, sold by MS. :-P
"I would say that 99 per cent of what my father has written about his own life is false." - L. Ron Hubbard Jr.
The XBox uses a X86 chip (Cu'mine Celeron, ie a P3 core) & a NVidia unified memory multimedia/graphics I/O chipset.
Right now Taiwan's motherboard makers are in the process of bringing out Athlon boards based on the EV6 bus version of NVidia's unified memory 'NForce' multimedia/graphics chipset.
That means that there will be X86 Linux chipset drivers for NVidia's unified memory multimedia/graphics chipset. & the next kernal revision will most probably have them pre-integrated.
This means one should, with little work (once the HDD is re-partitioned/formated, so it no longer has MS's propietry XBos filesystem on it), be able to load a standard X86 distibution on it - such as the Madrake 8/1 gaming installation.
Then any X86 Linux games should hopefully work.
What about your PS2??? Sony calls it a "Computer Enteriament system", so you can call PS2 a PC too then right? The fact is XBox is a stripped down verison of PC and so is gamecube and PS2 the biggest difference is that XBox is x86, Gamecube is PPC and god konws what PS2 is running off. And that leaves me to this conclusion, is it also safe to say that Gamecube would make a really cheap ass mac too if someone can stick a HD in? People are bitching at the fact that XBox has a HD built in, what's so bad about a HD, for once you don't actually have to buy those expensive ass memory cards so that you can safe you games. I am not saying Xbox is going to rock, but don't bitch at things that is simply not true.
kawai
8GB WD, 10GB S'gate
While I would agree that there's a lot of cruft in the x86 that isn't needed for a console, the XBOX backs the CPU up with extremely impressive coprocessors for video and sound (+ networking + a few other things).
How can you say they aren't using the 'highest end video cards available'? They are using a chip that is slightly superior to the GeForce 3 for video, plus NVidia's custom multimedia/audio solution which blows every 'consumer' level PC audio solution out of the water.
Even if 'PCs aren't optimized for games', the XBOX, with its PC-like architecture and all is currently the most powerful console on the planet, and will be for the forseeable future...Any developer who isn't deluding him/herself or in some 'strategic' relationship with another console manufacturer will tell you that.
Of course, that isn't really what matters, the success of failure of the XBOX will hinge on whether developers make use of that power to create compelling games that people want to play.
Actually consoles sell at a loss in the beginning, and then they make money up in the end if the price cuts weren't too big. Imagine this, if MS keeps the X-Box for 4-5 years (considering that's the normal pace of the industry to release the next generation), how much will that GeForce 3/motherboard/hard drive/CPU be worth? I'm thinking a heck of a lot less than $299.
And as for MS never making money, the thing is that they will. Probably not on the X-Box, but like I said, they're thinking long term here as well as what Sony thought in the beginning. This is a great growth area, and literally, it is the last few places that PCs themselves grow too for the average user (multimedia/games are one of the few reasons left for your average person to buy a new computer or new parts anymore). MS can't control the licensing on PCs, so why not just make consoles and control it there?
And consoles are going to be much more than just gaming machines in the future. I think people like the idea of specialized devices that still do lots of things very well (DVD player + console is a great idea IMO and the number of people who bought the PS2 for its DVD functionality without buying games shows). Those PCs in your living room deal are starting to take form in consoles and Tivo units.
Also, I want to point out again, that I think MS has a lot of work cut out for them if they wish to dominant, but thinking that "Oh, I'm going to hurt MS by buying a console that MS is losing money on", isn't exactly hurting them either even if they are losing money. Remember, they can take a hit and keep on running (with billions in the bank and in stocks). It's not like Nintendo where this is their core business.
One last thing, I do think that MS entering the arena has got Sony and Nintendo thinking more aggressively and are starting to beef up their offerings in the future which is good. Whether or not splitting the consoles into 3 very fractured markets with quicker hardware releases (you have to assume that Sony is thinking about releasing the PS3 earlier due to the latest reports, plus that could cause MS/Nintendo to also release earlier), I don't think is such a good idea for gamers.
Plus the fact that you can't do anything without the games, and they make money off the games. and controllers, memory cards too. And that's why the quality of games are so important.
kawai
So I've been thinking about all this interest in hacking the XBox, and I've decided to take part in the fray. Bold statement: Hacking the XBox to do other stuff would be cool, mainly because it would earn one bragging rights, but it would be useless.
The technology in the XBox is more expensive than a comparable PC. A $300 PC has much higher resolution video, more/expandable memory, standard expansion slots, a faster/larger HD, compatability with productivity software, and some even have TV output. The one thing that it doesn't necessarily have is the DVD-ROM.
THAT'S IT.
In the time it takes you to hack this device, the hardware gap will only increase. The only advantage to owning an XBox over a PC is in its entertainment value. Porting Linux to the XBox is an absolute joke. Since when has Linux been a platform for playing video games? Porting Windows would be far more interesting, but in all seriousness, Microsoft did that for you with DirectX (hence the X in the name XBox).
Microsoft designed the XBox knowing that you're going to try, so if picking all the Microsoft protections satisfies your personal vendetta, go for it. You won't be able to market anything you come up with without a team of lawyers larger than Microsoft's, and if you're looking for render-farms, I hear that people waste CPU cycles all day long on the internet. If you convince a whole bunch of people to donate their unused CPU cycles, you benefit far faster than you do spending $300 a pop for a Box that's likely to be sold out at your local toy store for months.
Don't listen to me. I just work here.
-Mike
isnt the x-box just a vehicle on which some flavour of DirextX can be implemented in hardware???
/. gamers.. youre more'n likely ruuning windows something and more 'n likely crunching dirextX through your cpu/gpu.....
sheesh.
al you gamers out there... yes, all you
this xbox has that covered, and i'm sure the api for developers will call up directx on its own chip...
so the concept of porting it for linux/linux for it is really a matter of porting directX for linux/linux for directx
any takers??
Not only are the hard drives different brands, they are different sizes. The WD drive is 8GB while the SeaGate one is 10GB. Wonder what other differences we can expect to find...
No, the problem with the demo units was on the developer's side. They included older versions video libraries with the source code, or something like that.
What did the "idiot employees" do wrong? Besides if it was possible in the first place for an "idiot employee" to cause the system to crash, that means all of the idiot consumers would do the same exact thing!
Very very true.
Microsoft has already spent the $400 on the manufacture of the X-Box (if said figures are true/accurate).
You would be hurting Microsoft even more if you never bought a system in the first place.
They've already release a EV6 bus (Athlon) version of their NForce unified memory graphics/multimedia i/o chipsets.
This means that X86 Linux NForce chipset drivers are probably already out.
Here's a preview of the referance board
Here's a pic of the board
PC unified memory chipsets in the past (SIS, VIA/Trident Blade, VIA/Savage, Intel 810/815), never really had the memory bandwidth for fast gaming graphics, but with a combination of twin bank & DDR its no longer a problem.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
MS takes a bigger loss when you don't buy a unit, though.
Tradtionally, UMA is a huge performance issue because all the components are accessing memory over the same, narrow bus. However, Xbox uses AMD's HyperTransport bus, which effectively provides a dedicated channel for each device on the bus (in the Xbox's case I believe just the CPU and GPU are on the bus).
sigs are a waste of space
What I would like to see most is a VGA adapter...
Interactive Visual Medical Dictionary
Crackhead moderators: this is +5, Hilarious material.
--
CNN declares War on Islam!
Left-wing America declares War on its Civil Liberties!
We tried plugging the hard drive into a normal computer. No operating system will recognize it. No surprise there, it's probably a proprietary filesystem. This will be pretty easily circumvented, however, and you should be able to hook the Xbox hard drive into your computer and get files off of it. I'm working on a program to do this.
Won't dd(1) work for this (assuming the drive is standard IDE, Linux -- you can substitute your chosen *N?X of choice -- will recognize it as a device on boot, and Microsoft doesn't have any anti-HD-modification stuff in place)?
# dd if=/wherever/your/xbox/drive/is/plugged/in of=/better/drive/you/want/to/put/in bs=8g count=1
Want Linux games? HERE.
Are we confusing the X-Box with the iSmack?
--
CNN declares War on Islam!
Left-wing America declares War on its Civil Liberties!
Note: I realized after the fact that this won't work (unless Microsoft is even dumber than I thought) except if you want to put in a faster small HD.
Want Linux games? HERE.
Because it's fair to benchmark a G4 against a P3 chip, which only has a fraction of the cache of a G4?
I want you to give Steve Jobs his crack-pipe back.
--
CNN declares War on Islam!
Left-wing America declares War on its Civil Liberties!
Face it, moderator.
You only hate him because he's right.
--
CNN declares War on Islam!
Left-wing America declares War on its Civil Liberties!
User Friendly :)
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
AOL gave us blithering idiots who use teeny-bopper acronyms like LOL and ROFL. Microsoft made computing cool and accessible to the public (note: also a bad thing). Choosing the lesser of two evils is left as an exercise to the reader.
--
CNN declares War on Islam!
Left-wing America declares War on its Civil Liberties!
Top Ten Reasons Why I Hate the Xbox
I just wonder how long it will take until the first Linux Haxk of an XBox will be around?
Any bets? 2 weeks, 3 weeks?
.. or has the quality of newbies gone down?
I reckon that cracking open a console, and being able to hack it's arse off looks like a lot of fun indeed. It may well be a PC, but it's cheap (compared to building your own), and does the job of running games better than my home brew beast, which is only a year old. The thought of squeezing out extra FPS on Halo makes me go all shivery.
Does the XBox have OpenGL support? I would assume by default that it doesn't, but a while ago I heard a rumour that Nvidia may provide support.
Can any XBox developers (or anyone in the know) please fill me in?
Firstly, don't think your going to be able to put RedHat bootdisks in and fire it up.
MS will have pretty good security here to stop this working (I know, Dreamcast's protection got hacked eventually, but we need a simpler way of doing this).
What I suggest is the Trojan way in. We need to get a boot disc that has the capability of loading something like VMware/Bochs, and is certified by MS (The tricky bit). Once that is done, we're in. We use that as a bootloader, swap discs, and carry on as usual.
Not the perfect solution, but it's a start to get a development system onto the machine.
And it would show Linux running on a XBox onto a TV, this fact alone would be an achievement, no?
So, who's up for a bit of social engineering into talking someone at MS to let us use a CDR with emulating boot code?
As an aside, does anyone know if the XBox is region locked? I'm visiting the US tomorrow and would like to know if it's worth me bring a machine back to the UK. Ta!
Waiting for an amusing sig.
Microsoft loses money on the X Box hardware and hopes to recoup it on consumers buying licensed software. If you're only going to use it as an X terminal and not buy any games then you *are* hurting Microsoft....
how tired - 2 years ago a 500Mhz G3 was 30% faster than a 500Mhz PIII (100Mhz RAM). As a general rule, we find a 733Mhz G4 to be approximate to a 1200Mhz Athlon. And approximate is the best you can ever do with this shit, although it is is probably true that the fastest x86 chip around is faster than the best G4 for most tasks. This situation MAY change with the G5 - the G4 has been a production nightmare. Doesn't make much of a difference to the fact that Apple make top-class computers for real world tasks. That's why people buy them you know...
That was classic intercourse!
64Mb is a bit on the slim side for rendering nowadays. I work in the digital effects industry, and our render farm boxes all have at least a gig of RAM. Really, I think you'd be better off buying rack systems - they won't end up that more expensive, they'll do the job properly, and you won't have to mod them yourself. And of course, they'll actually have a warranty after you've set them up... ;)
It has to be able to withstand being pulled off the TV by a drunken/stoned 20-something tripping over the controller cords. How long do you think the harddrive will last?
'Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson...'
I've heard that Halo has a year contract to be only available on the Xbox(tm).
It's the TV-Out chip.g in e.class/Web/products/products.jsp?Type=Prod&ProdFa mId=10&ProdCatId=0&ProdSubCatId=94&PartId=278&clrT rail=yes
http://www.conexant.com/default.sph/SaServletEn
If it was doing the DVD playback it'd be marked 'Video Decoder'
and I don't think Conexant actually makes an MPEG-2 decoder chip.
HardOCP made the same mistake... Hmm...
Paul "TBBle" Hampson
Paul.Hampson@Pobox.Com
Really now. Think about it. Is it really worth the time and effort in hacking the X-Box?
We know that MS has put in all kinds of encryption/protection schemes. The hardware isn't exactly your typical PC (no USB, etc.). Ethernet won't be availble for another year. Linear memory. All of these add up to one nut that's going to be tough to crack. I'm not saying it's going to be impossible, I'm sure it'll be done at some point but is it worth it?
After all this trouble in hacking through some MS hardware, they'll issue a firmware update and *poof*, all those efforts down the tubes. We return to the assembly debugger bench and begin anew. Months later another hack comes out and we rejoice and launch MAME, Linux and whatever else we want on our game consoles only to have another update that blows away our efforts.
And for what? To have MAME or Linux run on a game console? My suggestion would be to take all that time and skill you're thinking about investing into hacking the X-Box and make Linux that much better. Write those much needed office suites, 3D apps and sound editors that we need instead of playing around with a silly game console. Let MS keep plodding away and let them battle it out with Sony and Nintentdo. Fight the battles worth fighting.
liB
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I have a PS2 and the load times suck a$$.
Curious as to how they compare...
Magius_AR
If we don't buy any, they lose even more money. Instead of losing ~$125, they lose ~$424.
I don't know if it's worth bringing back, since its output will be NTSC and you'll need a multiformat TV or some other piece of hardware that converts the NTSC signal to PAL.
Karma: Excellent Birds (mostly as a result of listening to Laurie Anderson)
Find me a PC for 300 bucks with a GeForce4 in it, and you've got a point there.
According to This Site the xbox doesn't support CD-R disks but does support CD-RW. I would really like to see one of these take-apart articles see if the DVD drive is standard and see where MS tried to put in this no CDR policy
I'm pretty sure the XBox is for sale at "regular" retail stores. There is no way that retail stores are going to go to the trouble of getting signed contracts from each person who buys an XBox. It would just be too much of a hassle, and they would have to refuse to sell the product to the most obvious market: minors. Therefore, regardless of whatever claims Microsoft (or pieces of paper inside the box) may make, there can't reasonably be any EULA for this product.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Of course, there is the argument that we're just throwing money back into the devils pocket. Actually though, we're not. MS is taking about $100's loss per unit.
Yeah, so buying an XBox is like stealing $100 from MS. I urge you all to go buy one now!!! It's your duty as a slashdot reader!!!
do not read this line twice.
At least the password isn't something really obscure, like 'myvoice'.
t.
I seems you don't understand the concept of selling something at a loss.
They lose MORE money if you buy it. Try to follow the logic here: Costs them $X, they sell it for $X-$100. Result: you buy one, their balance sheet is $-100. You don't buy one and their balance sheet is $0.
Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.
Actually, these acronyms, along with BRB, GTG, "smileys" and most of the rest, originated on TDDs. And saying "Microsoft made computing cool and accessible" makes you sound like one of those blithering idiots.
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
I'm am making the (correct...wait and see) asumption that all of the boxes will be sold to sombody. It's a safe bet.
Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.
I have some maps for UT that are 4mg is size alone. Surely they jest with us.
I'm surprised they did not put in a 40gb drive. It about where the lower end price/size break is. (eg cost per meg)
By my estimates its about 40gb on the low end and 80gb on the high end. Any bigger or smaller than that, and you start paying through the nose for little extra bang.
make Linux, not Microsoft. sin(beast) = -0.809016994374947424102293417182819
It's an 8 bit wide, 8 megabit (1 megabyte) part in a TSOP 40 pin package.
The closeups the chips on the "we took one apart" pages always seem to leave this part out. It's being multiply-sourced: I've seen Hyundai, Intel and ST Micro in the various pictures, but the part number I could read was the Hyndai (now Hynix) HY29F080T-50 (pdf datasheet). I'm not sure about that -50. It was blurry and the standard part only comes in speeds up to 70ns (flash is slow, by the way).
The code in this part is probably what needs to be hacked/replaced with something that doesn't care about signatures on boot drives if we're to load "unauthorized" software.
You need the right equipment to get this puppy off intact (to read it in a ROM burner) and to avoid damaging the PCB, but it isn't rocket science. The trick is to heat all the pins on one side at once. A low-power microscope (when I worked in a bio lab we called 'em dissecting scopes) is a good idea too 'cause I don't think the warranty will apply if you screw it up.
There are sockets available for this part so multiple attempts at an "open" BIOS can be made without repeated soldering.
Everything will be cheaper next year -- the video cards as well as the Xbox. An honest comparison would be this year's commodity hardware vs. this year's Xbox.
BTW, the bargain-basement PC costs far more than $323 if assembly labor is factored in. I could be wrong on this, but hacking an Xbox is probably quicker than building a PC. The last time I tried to build a cheapie PC for someone, I discovered the ribbon cable on the front-panel switches and LEDs was too short to reach the motherboard (it was a hefty-sized case). I had to cut the cable and manufacture a sleazy "extension cord" out of cat.5 cable. Thirty-two stripped wires and sixteen solder connections later, it worked, but what a pain! Anyone who has built PCs knows the typical hazards: DOA parts, ill-fitting cases or cards, short-cable syndrome. These things don't happen every time, but unless you are running a PC factory where you repeatedly assemble the same configuration over and over again, you have to factor in at least a few hours to build the PC.
I keep seeing comments talking about hacking this thing into a $300 linux box.
What's wrong with you?
A quick visit to pricewatch.com will show you can build a higher spec'ed system yourself:
1GHz CPU: $60
Mobo: $60 or less
256MB RAM: $30
20GB HD: $70 or less
DVD: $40 or less
GeForce2 MX200: $40 or less
SoundBlaster Live! Value: $20
Total: ~$300
You can pick up a keyboard, mouse, controller, and modem/NIC for under $30 total if you have decent computer store near you.
If you want a console that plays its games and is also linux ready, check out the Dreamcast. It's been said many times on this forum before. $70 gets you the base system, and for $30 more you can have the keyboard and mouse too.
obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
> Of course, there is the argument that we're just throwing money back into the devils pocket. Actually though, we're not. MS is taking about $100's loss per unit.
The success of a game console is directly tied to the number of games released for it. Game developers are more willing to sign on if the console shows high sales figures. You are inflating the xbox sales figures, and so more developers will jump onboard (and even abandon other consoles). So in the end, you are helping microsoft succeed in this new market.
The connector labeled "DEBUG" appears to be an ITP connection. Good news: Anybody with an American Arium should be able to populate the connector and do low-level software debugging. Bad News: You gotta have an American Arium (or equiv) to use it. (Ariums are around USD $17,000 if memory serves).
The author of the article is smoking crack if he thinks "jumpering" anything in that connector is going to get him into BIOS.
-Q (waiting to do his own X-Box Autopsy)
Come on, t. The hacker community isn't that large, unless you count hax0rs who couldn't turn a torque screw. The Iopener was a "netpliance," and never has any "netpliance" gotten anywhere. Even the one designed for dumbed-down access to AOL died a messy death -- not because of hackers, but because there was no market. Those things aren't needed or wanted.
Gamers are a huge market, hackers are a drop in the ocean.
If gamers reject the Xbox, and go with GameCube, then hackers might speed Xbox's demise (just a little) by buying boxes without buying games. That scenario seems highly unlikely; Xbox, so far, looks like a success (but then, so did Dreamcast after its intro).
I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
the xbox has a unit to output an hdtv signal. This means the xbox is rendering a significantly higher resolution image, since the resolution of an hdtv is higher than the resolution of a standard television....
HDTV is not doing all the work.
Meep Meep!
If Gates meant you to overclock that thing he would have given you a Turbo button.
I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
Actually, I work in retail. The accounting is weird, but basically, they have paid for the boxen already. Simplisticly: ux + y + gz = d.
where, at time=1 (launch day)
u=number of units (XBox) made
x=cost per XBox
y=advertising costs
g=number of accessories made
z=avg. cost per accessory
d=debt
As time goes on, it becomes cheaper to make boxes, games, etc. This is due to the system being in place, and for the kinks to have been resolved (manufacturing, delivery, as well as service).
Advertising costs go down as word of mouth increases also.
If they are operating the XBox as a seperate business (remember, tax breaks for business' that report a loss), then they only make back money spent when we buy something.
It is true that the console is their loss leader (ie the object sold purposefully at a loss to increase sales of profitable items, noted by others as games, controllers, mem cards etc), but without it, they have no continuing source of revenue.
Don't buy the XBox, and you don't buy the games and other periferals, causing the XBox business to stay in debt for a longer period of time.
Of course, there is the argument that we're just throwing money back into the devils pocket. Actually though, we're not. MS is taking about $100's loss per unit.
Keep in mind that I might buy this but...
You do realize that if you DO NOT BUY it they'll have a MUCH GREATER loss per unit? Let's do the math. Buy one is -100 dollars for MS. Don't buy one is -400 (they cost 300 right?) for MS.
Of course they'll get bought by somebody anyway, so buying it (with MS losing money) and then putting Linux on it is a lot more spit in MS's eye then just losing money... They have so much is just ridiculous. They could make money probably just from interest if they only charged a nominal fee for their software. (NB: Just a wild guess, I have no idea if that's true or not.)
No sig for you.
The iopener had problems because of the hw hackery and license that they attempted to require with it. It wouldn't be suprising if the xbox needed zero mods to make it useful.
I've even heard about how the PS/2 was initially hampered because people in japan wanted it for a cheap dvd player. It doesn't sound very realistic but if it is...
t.
Screw ease of portability, since it is basically an nForce based PC, what is preventing people from writing an execution environment/mini os for plain old PC's that allow XBox games to be executed _natively_?
`which fortune`
"XBox SUCKS because it's just a PC"
:-)
"Let's run LINUX on it"
Uh, could you all make up your minds? That's what I love about SlashDot, the hypocracy!!
I'm sorry we're not all mindless drones. It might make it easier for your eight-bit brain to process slashdot if it was a hivemind collective, but the borg add-ons would ruin my boyish good looks.
Oh, and learn to spell hypocrisy.
How can you use my intestines as a gift? -Actual Hong Kong subtitle.
Think of how many of the great games came out two year later for most of the consoles. When did Gran Turismo 2, Donkey Kong, Zelda, Final Fantasy, etc. come out? Usually over a year and half past the launch. This might have to do with the fact the games are epic and need further development time, an agreement with the console maker (so that you keep up sales), or just the fact that they want to release a game with better special effects and don't want to ruin the other games.
Do you know what was the number one selling console up till last year (even when the PS2 was out for around a year)? Yup, you guessed it, the PSOne. Oh yeah, all those PS2 games that are being raved about (GT3, GTA3, THPS3, MGS2, DMC, Ico)? It's over a year from the official launch that they're finally appearing and some of the bigger ones have yet to appear (FFX, FFXI, Jak and Daxter)...
Also, when 2 years have passed, I bet the "winner(s)" of the console wars for this generation will have been decided, so all those that waited will play catch up. Furthermore, those waiting for price cuts, more availability, more titles, or just those that waited before buying into the hype will buy it at the later date. Not everyone gets into a frenzy over launch days.
Gaming is still a much bigger business than the DVD busines, and both still dwarf the numbers of people likely to attempt what is clearly a difficult hack.
The M.A.M.E. emulator is not a "hack," it is a program that runs in the Xbox development kit environment. And it won't work on a standard Xbox -- as the author states:
"Unfortunately, only registered XBox developers can legitimately obtain this software (okay, apart from the fact that only registered XBox developers actually have an XBox that can run the software)"
The Xbox itself will be hacked, but not easily. And how many of the few actually skilled hackers will pay $300 to build their custom box when an Nforce motherboard and a phat Athlon are about as cheap?
I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
I'm sure you don't see the painfully delicious irony in your post. So let me spell it out for you.
Bungee, the developer of Halo (before they were assimilated by Microsoft) was previously known for their sci-fi Doom-era superior shoot-em-up game, Marathon.
Intense stuff.
For a further, slightly aged dose of Irony, note that Marathon was a Macintosh based game. There was only a piddling port to Microsoft OSes much later.
I have a page I made that shares some of my experiences with the xbox and gamecube hardware. Of interest to those reading this thread is the XBOX rom extraction. I have the ROM binaries...but holding off on posting them on a large forum due to worries over legal ramifications...
So you'd by an MS product, which is probably against your geeky principals, just so you could install Linux on it, after you've installed Linux a million times in your life and still have found no use for it. Just buy WindowsXP, and install all your games and apps on it. And then put that slow PS2 on the shelf and get yourself a console with a bit of power! You're life will be easier and happier in the end! Or you could just grep yourself all night, while viewing porn with Netscape on a Linux machine, all while piping yourselves up the buffer! LOSERS!
Ok, why don't you go to someone's house, a friend who owns a PC perhaps, and try comparing the performance of a game running at 640x480 with the same game/configuration running at 1024x768. Well, did you notice a performance hit?
It's okay, you don't have to pretend any more. You should whack off to Regis's little brown hole during the commercials of Who Wants to be a Millionaire, like you used to, instead of posting the screed of a profoundly retarded man using your fresh new WebTV terminal that you bought from Walmart for yourself as an early christmas gift.
That's just a discussion... not any sort of proof.
I still don't believe it.
Username taken, please choose another one.
Was there this much hooplah over the phony XBOX isos, too?
truth :-(