Quake 2 Source Code Released Under The GPL

Masem (and many others) writes: "The source code for Quake 2 is now available until the GPL license. The .plan file for John Carmack has the details." The Id Software site is of course slammed with demand for the code. Hopefully other mirrors will be available.

Comments

fist prost

[VALinux]

i post you this first in order to have your advice.

Sweet!

[Anonymous Coward]

Now Open Source programmers can port it to Windows!

/.ing

[Anonymous Coward]

Welcome to id Software's Finger Service V1.5!

Name: John Carmack
Email: johnc@idsoftware.com
Description: Programmer
Project:
Last Updated: 12/21/2001 19:07:50 (Central Standard Time)
--
December 21, 2001
-----------------
The Quake 2 source code is now available for download, licensed under the GPL.

ftp://ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/source/quake2.z ip

As with previous source code releases, the game data remains under the
original copyright and license, and cannot be freely distributed. If you
create a true total conversion, you can give (or sell) a complete package
away, as long as you abide by the GPL source code license. If your projects
use the original Quake 2 media, the media must come from a normal, purchased
copy of the game.

I'm sure I will catch some flack about increased cheating after the source
release, but there are plenty of Q2 cheats already out there, so you are
already in the position of having to trust the other players to a degree. The
problem is really only solvable by relying on the community to police itself,
because it is a fundamentally unwinnable technical battle to make a completely
cheat proof game of this type. Play with your friends.

Re:/.ing

[MindStalker]

Well I know that so far palantine is keeping CS servers cheat free now, and doing a damn good job at it, just hope it can stay that way.

Re:/.ing

[Anonymous Pancake]

and I know the joy of screwing over other players with my bundle of cheats, better wish I never hit your server too..

Re:/.ing

[Anonymous Coward]

You're nothing but a humped over retard! Ah hell, I'm just kidding yah. But you _ARE_ a karma whore, and if I had moderation points right now I'd mod you down so god damn fast it'd make your head spin, retard!

Re:/.ing

[Anonymous Coward]

well, try moving to quake3-based mods such as Urban Terror or Rocket Arena3. Quake3 has been mostly cheat free, and when cheats do appear, id fixes them. Case in point: Quake3 1.3.1 came out yesterday for Windows, and 1.3.1 for Linux came out today. Won't have a mac version in a few days/weeks tho.

Re:/.ing

[Anonymous Coward]

How can I be a karma whore when I posted AC?

I'll confess to being a humped over retard though, it's the nicest thing anyone has said to me all day.

Re:/.ing

[MindStalker]

hehe just try getting into an updated paladin server, set to auto perm ban anyone detected of having any cheats installed period, if and or buts.

Really A great Thing

[peripatetic_bum]

You have to hand to Carmack to be a real good guy.

Sure he cant show you everything he's doing right now,

but by releasing, under GPL, the source code,

I think he letting people really learn how a true master

programs.

This is just a Good Thing

Re:Really A great Thing

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI, your post is total crap.

Re:Really A great Thing

[peripatetic_bum]

oh my, an AC lets me here his opinion.

Gosh, i dont know what to say as I dont knwo Who to say it too.

oh my, the horror

Re:Really A great Thing

[VALinux]

sdfhusid n my nanme is periaptic mbum, i donyt knwo hwo to tyep wihth so meny COCKZ in my mowth, gjdfigojiertiogeirj

stupid motherfucker.

Re:Really A great Thing

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess you have not looked at the Quake 1 source. It was nice of him to release the source but Carmack is not the only one who can make good 3d engines.

Re:Really A great Thing

[Anonymous Coward]

A true master? Epic makes good 3d engines as well that rival or better ID's stuff. Tribes had a good 3d engine. It seems Carmack the 'master' is not the only one who can make good 3d engines. Metal Gear Solid 2 has a great 3d engine.

Re:Really A great Thing

[kberg108]

F**K those idiots I couldn't agree with you more. Sure there are other 3d engines but carmack did it best, first, and cheapest (by him self).

Re:Really A great Thing

[Anonymous Coward]

No Carmack did make the first 3d engine. There were vectore based Atari games in 3d long ago. Quake 1 was not full 3d. The characters and projectiles were sprites.

Re:Really A great Thing

[Wild Wizard]

err no they where polygon based hence the big differance in gameplay between doom and quake.
doom had sprites whish were fast and you could have lots of monsters which was cool
where as quake had to calculate all these polygons for each and every monster
which meant they had to cut back on the number of monsters you would encounter in a level which made the game pretty crummy to play in comparision

Re:Really A great Thing

[Anonymous Coward]

Ha! You stupid fuck.

You lost a karma point!

Re:Really A great Thing

[Anonymous Coward]

The thing is that eventually, id's engines are usually better. When Quake3 and Unreal Tourneyment came out, I'd have thought that UT had better graphics. But 2 full years after both of their introductions, it's been quake3's graphics which have improved, especially through total conversion mods such as Urban Terror, TrueCombat, Reaction Quake3, etc..

Re:Really A great Thing

[Anonymous Coward]

I do not see why people drool over ID so much. The gameplay in their games is just something that gets too little attention. John Carmack is not the master, the people responsible for Metal Gear Solid 2 are true masters, they made a great game, Carmack can only make a good engine which is a small part of the puzzle. ID's games are like technology demo's for their engines so they can get licenses.

Re:Really A great Thing

[Anonymous Coward]

Not only that, he lost a karma point to an AC.
Double dumb-ass on him, huh?

Re:Really A great Thing

[sketerpot]

Yes, good graphics and stuff are a huge part of what makes games good. A very relevant article would be Playing the Open Source Game, in which Shawn Hargreaves talks about Open Source, game development, and how the game engine is just a part of the game.

I still think that a good game engine can make plenty of difference. Compare Nethack to Diablo, and think how much better Diablo could be.

Re:Really A great Thing

[Anonymous Coward]

No, he lost 2 karma points!

neet

[Anonymous Coward]

this is interesting

Re:neet

[Anonymous Coward]

Keep reading theres a few more lines to go over.

Tetris

[Cryptopotamus]

Cryptopotamus wishes those GPL guys would release Tetris for the GPL Game System. Cryptopotamus loves Tetris. Especially Dr. Tetris with Wacko Junior.

-CP

Wee...

[Anonymous Coward]

About damned time.

Gotta love Carmack

[I-man]

This, among many other reasons, is why I admire John Carmack.

Some may grumble that he only releases old products, no longer commercially valuable, in this fashion. To that I say "shush!". I for one look forward to browsing through the code of such a lovely 3D engine. The learning opportunity alone is grand, to say nothing of what will be done with the code now that it's out there.

Thank you, John.

Re:Gotta love Carmack

[Anonymous Coward]

You cant expect any sane person to work for dick-all. (Look at RMS, that sick fuckin wacko). At least the code is getting opened (not completely because of the GPL, but the best choice for Id). Carmack likes to eat and drink and drive fast cars just like everyone else. Anyone who grumbles at him for not releasing commercialy viable products is just another useless person who dumpster dives for his next meal.

1st post

[Anonymous Coward]

1st post

Re:1st post

[Genghis Troll]

Good job.

Wow, already!?

[jawad]

I feel so old, Quake II is the only one of the Quake series that I truly enjoyed. Quake I had a dark feel, the kind that a 3AM session with the sound up (especially the subwoofer) would scare the hell out of you, but crappy multiplayer. Quake III had this ultra-modern feel that was just a bit too smooth for me. Quake II was a nice combination of both, especially since the multiplayer kicked ass.

Now at least I don't have to have a pirated version of QII (*cough*).

Re:Wow, already!?

[hexix]

heh, actually I think you still do. Doesn't ID just open the source code to the 3D engines but keep the levels only available by buying the game. I thought that was the deal.

Re:Wow, already!?

[VALinux]

Now at least I don't have to have a pirated version of QII (*cough*).

Yes you do, you walking talking dick. As Carmack mentions in his plan, only the engine is GPL, the game-specific data (skins, maps, sounds) are still copyrighted.

Do you have any idea how much of a dick you look like? "This is great, I like Quake II so much more than Quake or Quake 3. Now that Carmack is giving it away, I don't have to feel guilty about stealing it from him." Way to support the community, piece of shit.

Re:Wow, already!?

[Anonymous Coward]

wow you steal games? can i be like you?

Re:Wow, already!?

[Magila]

but crappy multiplayer.

Huh? Quake more than any other game defined FPS multiplayer as we know it today. Yeah it only came with strait DM out of the box but that on it's own was a big deal back then. And then came the mods. CTF? Team Fortress? Rocket Arena? all created during the golden age of Quake mods. Quake is still considered by many to be the finest multiplayer FPS ever. The fact that you make such a comment makes me doubt you ever seriously played Quake online.

Re:Wow, already!?

[Jahf]

Actually, Quake did have pretty crappy net play. QuakeWorld fixed it (and I would agree was a complete and total gem). So in this case you could both be correct.

Re:Wow, already!?

[FyRE666]

Dude, if you lived next door to me and were playing Quake with the sound up, blasting through a subwoofer at 3AM, it wouldn't just be the game scaring the hell out of you...

Re:Wow, already!?

[Anonymous Coward]

What community? Id software is a company and their employees are not in danger of starving unless they throttle their spending up to match the amount of money they make. John Carmack seems to throttle his spending up, in such a manner.

Re:Wow, already!?

[Anonymous Coward]

>Way to support the community, piece of shit.

Dear God, you must have balls made of 10 ft. thick titanium to write that after writing these juicy turds:

"fist prost"
"linux is for goat-fagg0ts"
"i break slashdot"
"page lengthening post"

I choose you, cocksucking father fucker.

Re:Wow, already!?

[Sublimed]

way to take a perfectly good intellectual point, and make it seem like something a 14 year old wrote by cursing every 3 words.

Re:Wow, already!?

[Jagasian]

I agree. Its sick how some people actually want to destroy or harm the good things in this world. Why steal from someone who gives far more than his share?

Carmack deserves praise right now, and the fact that a few trolls need to feel their moment of power by doing something stupid... well, kind of ruins the Christmas spirit that Carmack started by releasing the source code in the first place.

Re:Wow, already!?

[Anonymous Coward]

And I'll bet you've never downloaded an MP3.

Whatever.

mirror

[dsmey]

http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~meyerds/quake2.zip

Re:Mirror

[tunah]

I hate DNS.

Better (maybe)

(Check those URLs!)

Re:mirror

[XoXus]

No, it's not there anymore (if it was there at all...).

Re:mirror

[dsmey]

Purdue was probably gonna have a fit. I deleted it about an hour after it was posted. Sorry!

Responsible and Generous

[DarkZero]

id Software, as always, is being responsible and generous to its fans. Instead of keeping its source code under wraps until the game is released to the public domain by copyright law some time in the year NEVER, id Software has decided to release the source code for a game that it is no longer using so that the fans may tinker with it and learn from it.

If any of the people from id Software are reading this (which there is a chance of): Thank you. You rock.

Re:Responsible and Generous

[Anonymous Coward]

However, it hasn't been released into the public domain; it has been released under a restrictive and controversial license

Re:Responsible and Generous

[MindStalker]

Yawn, if you want to create a closed source game, I'm SURE Id software would license you a copy just for that. Ungrateful bastard.

Re:Responsible and Generous

[Anonymous Coward]

How is giving you more rights then copyright allow restrictive and controvertial? Idiot

Re:Responsible and Generous

[ndogg]

Perhaps, but is it worse than not releasing it at all?

Re:Responsible and Generous

[Yottabyte84]

GPL is in some ways better then public domain. Publishers aren't too hot for it, but it's great for the users. They can tweak it, make totaly new games that borrow code, etc, all of which will also be avaible for free. GPL is 'By users, for users'

Re:Responsible and Generous

[Anonymous Coward]

it has been released under a restrictive and controversial license

how, exactly, is the gpl "restrictive and controversial" for the purposes the code was released for. It was not released so that software companies could make closed source products based upon it.

Re:Responsible and Generous

[Anonymous Coward]

YHBT. YHL. YAND.

Re:Responsible and Generous

[Anonymous Coward]

Very nice, you can almost create words and phrase. Now I'm convinced your an idiot.

Re:Responsible and Generous

[Anonymous Coward]

your?

Re:Responsible and Generous

[Anonymous Coward]

phrase?

Re:Responsible and Generous

[Anonymous Coward]

controvertial?

Sheesh - if he didn't know how to spell it, he could have copied from my troll^h^h^h^h^hcomment ... where I spelt it correctly.

Re:Responsible and Generous

[reaper20]

Agreed .... that is why he is The Carmack ...

Funny how even today, Q3A is still the standard for 3D gaming. Carmack's code is clean, easily portable, and scales well. You could be benchmarking Q3A 10 years from now, and I think it would still be viable. Pure gold ... the standard bearer for OpenGL ... Sometimes I think it's a "waste" that he's spoiling those talents on video games (as much as I love them). Imagine 100% of his effort going to KDE/GNOME/Xfree or the kernel.

You da man, John.

Re:Responsible and Generous

[reidbold]

Read the .plan before you flame. If you create a true total conversion, you can give (or sell) a complete package away, as long as you abide by the GPL source code license.

Re:Responsible and Generous

[dimator]

I'm not too big into PC FPS games; I haven't got the time to get good at them, and getting my ass handed to me in the mean time really sucks. Playing iD games is still fun though, if not only to study their designs and principles, on the cutting edge of the art form which is video games. I plan to show my support to a company that kicks as much ass as they do by continuing to buy their titles.

Re:Responsible and Generous

[Anonymous Coward]

Okay, not trying to be a troll here (I'm rather drunk) but I think Carmack would suck at desktop environsments and kernel and the like. His talent is with 3D engines and that's where he belongs. You'd know that if you read his .plan files and other writings.

Re:Responsible and Generous

[Anonymous Coward]

lol!!

Re:Responsible and Generous

[Anonymous Coward]

Sigh... those are (almost) the standard abbreviations, dating back to USENET, for (YHBT) "You Have Been Trolled", (YHL) "You Have Lost", (HAND) "Have A Nice Day".

Re:Responsible and Generous

[HeUnique]

Got a short memory, eh?

Back then when Quake 3 was out for Linux, 3D graphics on Linux was laughable at best! there was barely any DRI implementation and there was XFree 3.3.6 (and no Xv extensions, no Xinerama, etc)

John Carmack was among the guys who helped developed 3D drivers for Linux thanks to Matrox releasing specs. The trick that you had to do in order to reserve DMA with kernel booting... history...

So he is more then just a game programmer, and he intend to help further when the next Doom will be out.

Re:Responsible and Generous

[Cuthalion]

I frequently run into it on here, but the notion that programmers are a fungible and reallocatable resource is distasteful and wrong.

Programmers who are good at a particular task are good at it because they like it and they understand it well. I'm sure that John Carmack could do a perfectly fine job at writing a GUI or the kernel or improving mozilla or whatever, but if he excells at writing 3d engines, and that's what he wants to do who is any of us to say otherwise. I say we're lucky that his talent and interests are aligned such that we can enjoy them at all! Think of all the people who are like John Carmack but instead of writing 3d games write code that is of no interest to anyone but themselves (this is fine too).

At least you didn't make the claim that open source development is 'wasting its time' with two competing projects. That one REALLY pisses me off.

Re:Responsible and Generous

[Anonymous Coward]

You said it. BTW, I love you John.

Re:Responsible and Generous

[Anonymous Coward]

I think in most cases you are right, but in the case of John Carmack I'm willing to bet he would succeed doing anything he puts his mind to simply because of the way he approaches things. He's very thorough in the way he researches the ideas he has in his head. Just look at his armadillo rocket page - something completely unrelated to programming but he gives it very thorough treatment and will probably be flying within the next year and be considered an expert in the field within 5. :)

Re:Responsible and Generous

[Marczak]

...or cancer research!

Merry Christmas to all Programmers

[Hangtime]

I admit, I'm not a good programmer. I am a code monkey who is working to be a good programmer. One of the ways you become one is looking at good code. I have peaked at both Doom and Quake to just see what goes on in the head of one of the best programmers in the world. In doing so I have picked a few pointers without even realizing it until I did it. So thanks Mr. Carmack, you have given me a Christmas present, the gift of better programming.

Re:Merry Christmas to all Programmers

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe next Christmas you can suck his dick.

Re:Merry Christmas to all Programmers

[Hangtime]

If showing genuine appreciation is considered in that context, I guess then I do fellate everyone who goes out of their way to do something nice. Merry Christmas...even to the ACs.

Re:Merry Christmas to all Programmers

[Anonymous Coward]

Now that's how to respond to a troll.
...So, did you suck his dick yet?

Re:Merry Christmas to all Programmers

[Anonymous Pancake]

Good job

you just admitted you are a flaming faggot

Do you know Cmdrtaco? maybe you should give that queerbear a call.

Re:Merry Christmas to all Programmers

[core10k]

Actually, looking at his source code is worse than useless - you won't learn a damned thing. The only good thing you can say about John Carmack's source code is that it didn't look as bad as the Descent source code. And that's not saying much. He's no software engineer.

Re:Merry Christmas to all Programmers

[geekster]

And that's bad exactly how?

Re:Merry Christmas to all Programmers

[oznet]

Please... PLEASE, do not consider Carmack's code as "good".

It's fast as hell, yes, but good coding it is not. All of the Quakes have been what can only be described as "hacks". Most experienced programmers can quickly see that it is does not follow a good design.

I mean, just take a look at the code you use to do mods. Ugh, coding mods for any of the Quakes sucks ass.

I am a Quake fan at heart, just becuase the engine is so damn fast but look at Unreal for a (mostly) proper (although slow, framerate-wise) mod development environment and design.

Quake is the dragster of 3D engines. Nothing can beat it in a straight line... Just don't try to turn.

Re:Merry Christmas to all Programmers

[tshak]

I have peaked at both Doom and Quake to just see what goes on in the head of one of the best programmers in the world. In doing so I have picked a few pointers without even realizing it...

And this, sir, is how we get Memory Leaks.

Re:Merry Christmas to all Programmers

[Torak-]

Yeah, I'm sure he's all cut up about that fact too.

Re:Merry Christmas to all Programmers

[BLAG-blast]

Please... PLEASE, do not consider Carmack's code as "good".

I'm not bashing Mr Carmack here, but I've gotta say I agree with you. Also this isn't a great suprize, but mainly the nature of commercial gamming code. If you compare the quakeII source code to the original Elite source code you'll see that in general you shouldn't expect "good" code when you look into a game.

I've just built quake2 from sources and it did take a lot of tweeking. If I had a job at ID I have to admit that one of the first things I would do to the quake II code base would be to start using automake and autoconf so we don't have to "tweak" things to get them working.

But now that it's open source I can add automake and autoconf any.

Happy Xmas and have fun writting a quake2 based games.... ;-)

Re:Merry Christmas to all Programmers

[oznet]

LOL... I love how all these posts get -1 "Troll".

Um, saying that the code isn't that great a design is somehow sacrilege against the "infallible" Carmack? Gimme a break. Yes, we love his game (I do anyway) but that doesn't make the code any cleaner. As mentioned is other posts, sometimes you have to do what works for game development. Sometimes that means not so clean code, period.

Re:Merry Christmas to all Programmers

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh look, don't say bad thinks about my Mr C or you'll be moded down because you said a bad thing about Mr C.

Re:Merry Christmas to all Programmers

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish I could agree - but there are 76 "goto"'s in the code (some used to replace loops because the rest was so badly structured), and LOTS of things that many programmers would find horrific.

I used to think those at id were great programmers, but now I see that its not so special after all. There is plenty to learn from the code, but also plenty you should ignore, and try not to pick up too many bad habits.

I have the source

[thekernel32]

Go to my box at linuxhost.ccand you can download the quake2.zip file containing the source.

I got it before the slashdot story hit...

Can't wait

[ArchieBunker]

for the hacked cheat clients to start showing up. Luckily q2/q3 are utter shit compared to q1 so I won't be playing it.

And its now in cvs

[_generica]

You can find the code in the quakeforge cvs:

cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.quakeforge.net:/cvsroot/qua ke login (just hit enter)

cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.quakeforge.net:/cvsroot/qua ke co quake2

Re:And its now in cvs

[Anonymous Coward]

No it isn't, you damn liar! This is absolutly false! Jackass!

Re:And its now in cvs

[Anonymous Coward]

Great way to kill their CVS server by announcing it here.

um, ok posted it to edonkey as a mirror :)

[linzeal]

quake2.zip

If you don't already have Edonkey its got linux clients as well. :)

Cheating.

[Oily Tuna]

ID software are totally correct about the cheating aspects of releasing the code.

There will always be people who try to cheat, and some who succeed. Releasing the source makes it significantly easier to make a cheating client.

However,

i) The benefits of having the source to an extremely successful games outweighs the disadvantages of increased cheating (unless you're a victim of the cheating ... try a lan party instead of the internet next time).

ii) By seeing what the cheats come up with, perhaps the next generation of client-server games will have better cheat avoidance in the server and/or the protocol - we can learn from past mistakes or oversights.

Re:Cheating.

[IdentityCrisis]

And ofcourse, by releasing the source code, the community can patch out cheats themselves.

Re:Cheating.

[dstone]

By seeing what the cheats come up with, perhaps the next generation of client-server games will have better cheat avoidance

Yes, especially if the cheat coders release their cheats as Open Source also. ;-)

Hey now, if a cheat applied to GPL'ed source doesn't follow the GPL itself, we can just sue all the cheat coders out of existence! Perfect.

Free The Cheats!

Re:Cheating.

[cmbofh]

But only if the cheat code is published! Otherwise these rules don't apply :-( Yes, I took the parent comment too seriously :-)

Re:Cheating.

[Anonymous Coward]

If the cheat wasn't published, we wouldn't have cheaters. (Plural.)

Re:Cheating.

[Lostman]

This was a problem we had when the Quake1 and Quakeworld source code was released.

A "group" released the cheat "Quake World Radar Edition" that put autoaim and a radar into a standard client. It was done actually very nce. They released no source code for anything that they did.

It was even "better" when, a year later, that same group came forward and told everyone "Hey, remember that QWRE we put out? It was trojaned. It has been reporting your ip, name, (other info), and even your WINDOWS CD KEY to us!" -- and they released logs to prove that it was true (pas the cdkey).

Hmm.. it was a huge uproar because EVERYONE and their mother demanded the source code for this from them.

This let me know something in particular... while the GPL "should" be valid -- it can ONLY be enforced by the copyright owner. Lemme tell you: Carmack didn't feel it was necessary to go after these people.

Anyways. . . you say that you can get the cheats from them and fix them. I am guessing thats not true. They will have closed source cheats that somehow make it around the net, and if you are lucky enough to find out who made it they will say "We wont give you the source code" or (my favorite) "we GAVE the source code out. Its not OUR fault that the people YOU got it from didnt give it to you" -- and since it would be snaking its way across the net who can be sure that it wasnt true?

Ah well, huh?

(And I am sure I stated SOMETHING wrong with the GPL and people are going to say "nuh-uh" -- thats fine. End of the matter is that cheat mods for these games will be closed source.. that just wont change...)

doh!

[llamalicious]

now I have to learn C, so I can write 3.21, so I can keep my quake2 server from being hacked! :)

Merry Christmas to me!

Re:doh!

[Jarred Capellman]

You could just change the protocol number and only hand out the client programs with the protocol change but then you'd be limited to the number of users on your server.

Another way would be to pass several variables between the server and the client, like the health, armor, etc so that the server controls the amount of health, armor,etc.

Good, a distraction!

[Some Dumbass...]

While everyone's busy downloading the Quake II source code, maybe I can mange to download kernel 2.4.17!

Lint

[Oily Tuna]

Someone needs a copy of Lint

gamex86.dll - 0 error(s), 332 warning(s)

Flamebait maybe - but if a build of my project generated 332 warnings I'd be fired.

Re:Lint

[Anonymous DWord]

Not if a build of your project sold 20 gazillion copies, you wouldn't. ;-)

Re:Lint

[Anonymous Coward]

quake2.exe - 0 error(s), 489 warning(s)

hahah... vs6 with latest service pack compiling 'quake2' in release mode.. guess it needs some cleaning up still

Re:Lint

[Oily Tuna]

To be fair, if you drop the warning level back down to 3 (the VC default) you get

quake2.exe - 0 error(s), 8 warning(s)

lots of level 4 warnings occur in Microsoft's own headers (yes ... I think this is crap, it makes warning level 4 useless. MS - fix your SDK!)

Re:Lint

[Anonymous Coward]

quake2.exe - 0 error(s), 521 warning(s)

and thats with a freshly installed copy of VC... atleast theyre not errors...

Re:Lint

[Anonymous Coward]

Ever write a cross-platform, cutting-edge 3D engine in 1997 and then try to compile it in late 2001? Luser. Anyways, it was originally built with VC5 IIRC -- not the most standards-compliant C compiler ever released...

Re:Lint

[Anonymous Coward]

Haha somebody needs to read The Tao of Computer Programming.

Real programmers should NEVER be afraid of warnings.

Re:Lint

[Ironpoint]

Go to options, change your warning level back down to "Level 3 - Mere Mortal Warning Level." Later you can lament how your more l33t than iD.

Re:Lint

[cheezit]

I have warning phobia but MS makes it really tough for me to have warning-free code. Here's what I have to do to get vanilla (and very legal) STL code to compile without L3 warnings under VC6:

#pragma warning(disable:4786)

Blech!!!

Re:Lint

[Anonymous Coward]

You idiot, you should be fired now. A warning is not an error. Carmack new his compiler and instruction set. Geeze, who cares if lint pukes.

Carmack writes Quake2 which is ahead of it's time, YOU fuss over lint (a famously anal warning generator) years after QuakeII released. Who do I listen to? Hmm.. Carmack....or....you...Carmack...or....dipshit.... .Carmack....or.....asswipe?

QuakeSrc.org - shameless plug.

[Ndr_Amigo]

Ever since the Quake1 source release two years ago, a lot of intresting (and a lot of unintresting mind you) ports of the Quake engine have shown up. www.quakesrc.org reports on these new engines, as well as hosting some projects and a large set of tutorials. If anyone is intrested in coding off a quake-based engine, this is a good place to start. No Quake2 content yet, but give it a few days... www.open-quake.com is also a good site reporting on news in the Quake engine scene. End plug :)

No thanks, John.

[SilentChris]

"from the thanks-again-john dept"

The problem is, as an academic exercise, it goes against nearly all the "rules" of having others learn about your code. It was once a lovely 3D engine, now it's akin to releasing the hardware schematics for the TI-99/4A.

If you're going to release the source, why not go whole hog? They already have copyrights stemming back many years.

I think that if he really should deserve reverance, he should release the source *as it happens*. There is such a small percentage of the population that would actually download and compile the source for Quake 3 Arena. If the copyright laws stand, he could release the code under a heavily-modified GPL (say, the idPL) and basically state you can use the engine, just not the artwork. Those who would argue that they make significant money off licensing the engine are fooling themselves. They are a multimillion dollar company, and every new Quake or Doom game nets them more millions. They're percentages for licensing revenue must be paltry.

I get a little angry when people villify certain members of the technological community for SKIRTING the finer aspects of it. It's like revering Steve Jobs more than Woz (which does happen).

Carmack drives expensive cars that very few people can afford -- he could stand to give away the full source code at the time the game is released so that the academic world can study his graphic routines. As such for now, he only seems like the snob I once read about in an interview. Asked if he felt he learned anything from his teachers, he said, "Not much, because I was smarter than they were". Being a decent technological coder doesn't exempt you from hubris.

Re:No thanks, John.

[xanadu-xtroot.com]

I think that if he really should deserve reverance, he should release the source *as it happens*.

You haven't had your labotamy re-done lately, right? You imply that someone that is trying to make a $ should release everything they type for free?

When was the last time M$ released the source for M$ Golf? Oh, wait, they never did. OK, well, when was the last time SquareSoft released the souse for the FF seires. Oh wait, they never did. Hmmm...

Seems like Mr. Carmack is onto something...

Wake up, man.

Re:No thanks, John.

[havaloc]

You know, he didn't have to release anything at all. I get a little angry when people aren't greatful for what they have and can get.

Re:No thanks, John.

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is, as an academic exercise, it goes against nearly all the "rules" of having others learn about your code. It was once a lovely 3D engine, now it's akin to releasing the hardware schematics for the TI-99/4A.

huh? the existance of quake 3 takes nothing from the value of quake 2. it's still the same game. it's still the same code. if there is something you don't know that's in the quake 2 code, then there is something you can learn from the quake 2 code. if there is something in the quake 3 code that you don't know, well, that's why carmack is writing it, instead of you, and that's why he gets to drive the (forward-reference) expensive cars you mention.

If you're going to release the source, why not go whole hog? They already have copyrights stemming back many years.

the only semi-sound business models that include open-source code involve profiting from support of that code. that business model simply doesn't work in the context of games for consumers. and without a sound business model, there would be no quake, q2, or q3, as the company would've gone bankrupt with doom.

I think that if he really should deserve reverance, he should release the source *as it happens*.

i doubt he's after reverance. and it's not reverence that's being expressed in this forum, it's appreciation.

There is such a small percentage of the population that would actually download and compile the source for Quake 3 Arena. If the copyright laws stand, he could release the code under a heavily-modified GPL (say, the idPL) and basically state you can use the engine, just not the artwork. Those who would argue that they make significant money off licensing the engine are fooling themselves. They are a multimillion dollar company, and every new Quake or Doom game nets them more millions. They're percentages for licensing revenue must be paltry.

i don't think that the loss of licensing revenue would put them out of business. but increased competition in the marketplace from other companies that get a free (as in beer) engine and only have to pay some artists just might put them out of business.

Carmack drives expensive cars that very few people can afford -- he could stand to give away the full source code at the time the game is released so that the academic world can study his graphic routines. As such for now, he only seems like the snob I once read about in an interview. Asked if he felt he learned anything from his teachers, he said, "Not much, because I was smarter than they were". Being a decent technological coder doesn't exempt you from hubris.

so, your real problem with carmack is not that he doesn't give away his source as he writes it, but that he hasn't become a public servant after finding contentment in his expensive cars? or is your problem the fact that he's smart (or had dumb teachers)?

Re:No thanks, John.

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that companies have made huge amounts of money by licenseing id's engines. The biggest company so far is Valve.

Halflife/Counterstrike are based upon an heavily modified quake1 engine that rivals quake2 in technology (and even quake3 in some ways, as it has skeletal animation, which quake3 doesn't).

Counterstrike is a cashcow for Valve, and is in turn a cashcow for organizations like the CPL.

Re:No thanks, John.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Asked if he felt he learned anything from his teachers, he said, "Not much, because I was smarter than they were". Being a decent technological coder doesn't exempt you from hubris. "

He was right about that. John Carmack is a haughty bastard. If he said something thusly:

"I do not accpet the orthodox view that the only way you can learn things is in a school. I can learn things on my own with the aid of books just fine."

What he said just makes himself look like an arrogrant prick.

Re:No thanks, John.

[Doug Neal]

I don't think it would be such an insane idea to release the source code to new materials.

As his plan file says, the actual game data, the maps - in other words, what really makes the game Quake 2, you still need to buy them.

Imagine if Return To Castle Wolfenstein had been released under the GPL, with the source either available on the website or on the CD. Would it have decreased sales? No. It might even increase them. It's not like you can get yourself a free copy of the game by downloading the source code. If I am right, it won't be in an easy, ready-to-compile format like your average GNU utility! It takes brains and knowledge of programming to make use of it.

Anyone who's determined not to pay for the game has plenty other options. Borrow a friend's CD and burn a copy. Search "warez" sites. Go to the shopping mall and nick one!

You could argue that someone who decides to create a derivative game with free maps and then release it over the internet could reduce sales, but, then again, it's the official game that gets all the hype and marketing, and that appears on the shelves in the shopping centres. And when you hand over your money you aren't just paying for the engine. You're paying for the whole game experience, something which is completely absent without the game data. ID don't just make great game engines, they make, and I'm sure many will agree, involving and exciting games.

People buy games. They don't buy game engines. Anyone determined to get a free copy has far easier options than using the source code.

Re:No thanks, John.

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is, as an academic exercise, it goes against nearly all the "rules" of having others learn about your code. It was once a lovely 3D engine, now it's akin to releasing the hardware schematics for the TI-99/4A.

There are a *lot* of things the Q2 engine does extremely well and much that people can learn from it. I'm willing to bet that significant chunks of the Q3 engine aren't that disimilar to Q2 engine. Things like BSP tree and collision algorithms will have been improved a bit, but not that much.

Those who would argue that they make significant money off licensing the engine are fooling themselves. They are a multimillion dollar company, and every new Quake or Doom game nets them more millions. They're percentages for licensing revenue must be paltry.

Quake 3 was a big victim of piracy and didn't ship nearly as many copies as you might think. Also, the I believe the licensing fee is something in the region of a million dollars per game. I'm sure they make more money off licensing the engine than on direct sales.

Re:No thanks, John.

[Anonymous Coward]

"I think that if he really should deserve reverance, he should release the source *as it happens*. "

That would mean we would be an idiot, I don't think Carmack is a idiot.

Re:No thanks, John.

[Genom]

when was the last time SquareSoft released the souse for the FF seires.

Actually, I think it would be hellishly cool if Square released the FF6 engine - it's outdated enough to be useless to their competitors, but cool enough to still have a VERY wide fanbase (plus, releasing under the GPL would make sure that anyone making improvements would have to contribute back - a good thing, IMHO at least). I could see fan-based programming for the SNES emulators skyrocket if they did.

Of course, right now they wouldn't do it, as the GBA would most probably run the FF6 engine just fine -- and they probably have plans to make a couple games for it...

...then again, that's a lot of probably's, and I'm only on my first cup of coffee ;P

Re:No thanks, John.

[Scudsucker]

Quake 3 was a big victim of piracy

I doubt that very much. Quake 3 uses the same online authentication system used by Half-Life; each cd comes with a key and only one copy of that key can play online at any one time. That is a very powerful incentive NOT to "share" the game and your key with others that you just spent $50 on (prolly under $20 now).

Re:No thanks, John.

[Auxon]

I believe the licensing fee is something in the region of a million dollars per game. I'm sure they make more money off licensing the engine than on direct sales.

If that was true why would anyone ever want to get a license from iD? If iD's own game makes less money than the cost of the license fee, then how could another company make money off of licensing it? The chance of them selling more copies of their game than iD's are slim.

Re:No thanks, John.

[KeyserDK]

No it doesnt. It uses the same idea, the half-life online protection is a complete joke. It just doesnt work.

Then again, the ability to pirate half-life is probably a huge factor that made counter-strike what it is (The ability to get it for free of charge).

Re:No thanks, John.

[arkanes]

*shrug* I was able to pirate q3 pretty darn easy. (I'm not a big fan really, prefer UT, I just wanted to see what the fuss was about. So pirating it, playing a few times, and then getting rid of it seems ethical to me)

Re:No thanks, John.

[juhaz]

People don't buy game engines. Companies do buy game engines. Derivative games don't sell, you say? Well, think again, guess what for example Valve used for Half-Life? That's right, Quake, and they paid for it, probably quite a bit of money. And it's certainly not the only successfull non-id game using ID's engine, do you think they would've paid for that engine if it was right there under the GPL right after the Quake went out of the press?

So you really think, ID should just give away it's code for their competitors to use for free?
What are you guys smoking these days?

Re:No thanks, John.

[jeremycx]

Let's all remember that Id was one of the first (if not the first) game company to encourage mods and user-designed add-on levels. Id has had its head screwed on straight from the get-go.

Without Id, it might still be in vogue for software companies to sue people who distribute total conversions and other hacks.

Re:No thanks, John.

[jedidiah]

That is INFACT how intellectual property was supposed to work in the US. You get a limited monopoly to your work or "secrets" in exchange for your eventual sharing of those "secrets".

While Carmack's actions are a noble gesture, they are no less than what should be expected of all software vendors.

Once the code has aged past it's usefulness, it should be public domain... PERIOD.

BTW, this is a great example of the utility of GPL. Carmack can be nice and noble with little risk of it impacting his business. His competitors can't turn around and use this code against him (like they could if it were straight PD).

Those software authors that don't contribute back into the public domain are simply thieves, no less reprehensible than the pirates that distribute their work while it's valuable.

Re:No thanks, John.

[swv3752]

Then Valve would have had to give away half-life, do you really think that would have happened? No, if someone wants to produce a game, they will license from Id. And most likely they will want to use the latest and greatest (namely Q3A).

This might let some poor game developer design some game and license the code. Or maybe it wil help train the next Carmack. Both are slim but there would be zero chance if it wasn't opened.

Re:No thanks, John.

[Micky the knife]

Those software authors that don't contribute back into the public domain are simply thieves, no less reprehensible than the pirates that distribute their work while it's valuable.

What?
what planet did you grow up on?

Re:No thanks, John.

[juhaz]

No, Valve would not have had give away whole Half-Life, only the modifications they did to the quake engine (maybe HL was a bad example, because for HL, Valve really did quite a bit of work on the engine too, something that used almost unmodified engine would be better), they could still sell the GAME, data files, just like ID is still not giving away those, even if the source has been opened.

So, in turn, people who did Gunman Chronicles could've taken HL engine for free, and build their game on top of it.

Re:No thanks, John.

[Anonymous Coward]

that is such a fucking stupid thing to say - so people can't write code and then not release it without being criminal. Hmmm.

Re:No thanks, John.

[Suppafly]

Since halflife is based off of the Q2 engine, and Counterstrike is a cool free mod for halflife, I wonder how long until we can have a totally free version of counterstrike not requiring the purchase of halflife..

Re:No thanks, John.

[juhaz]

Half-Life is actually based on the Q1 engine, not Q2, which has been open sourced for a long time now, but of course Valve, or anyone else using those, is under no obligations to OS their implementations, that have been purchased before this.

HL is still selling quite well, probably mostly because of CS, so no, I don't think we'll have free version for a while - you just don't kill a goose that lays golden eggs.

If you are thinking about Open Source hackers evolving the Q2 source so that it is compatible with HL ... well, possible, but certainly not very likely, modifications done to the HL from base Quake source tree are huge, implementing those changes is no way going to be any easy task.

Re:No thanks, John.

[abdulla]

www.neverax.org
open source (GPL) and as it happens

Re:No thanks, John.

[Anonymous Coward]

The current cost to license the Quake 3 engine for game development is 500,000 dollars. I don't know about your bank account, but if this is a "paltry" sum to you, then you must be doing quite well.

Re:No thanks, John.

[Anonymous Coward]

"As such for now, he only seems like the snob I once read about in an interview. Asked if he felt he learned anything from his teachers, he said, 'Not much, because I was smarter than they were'. Being a decent technological coder doesn't exempt you from hubris."

He never said that. I direct you to this page http://firingsquad.gamers.com/features/carmack/pag e7.asp of the interview to which you probably refer. It says,

FS: Less about organization then, what about a boss as a teacher? Is

there anyone from whom you feel you could learn from?

John: I actually learn things from almost anyone. This is one of the

major differences between me as a teenager and me now. My views as a

teenager were that "I am smarter than all these people around me, and

therefore I will completely ignore anything that anyone has to say." I

went through a couple semesters of college classes like that. I look

back on it now and realize that I was not treating things in the right

way. Yeah, maybe I was smarter than the professor but it didn't mean

that there weren't things I could learn from him.

The way I go about things now is that everyone I work with in the

programming level I learn something from. I can look at the time I

spent with Brian Hook. I learned some better C coding standards and

stricter use of struct and const that I wouldn't normally do. That's

been a positive thing that I've improved on because of him. And then

there's Graeme - I'm seeing him put some things together very quickly

from the Java libraries - things that I would have rolled from scratch

and taken longer to do.

So it doesn't take someone that's necessarily a "better" developer or

programmer for them to have things that you can learn from; that's a

really important lesson that I've learned over the last decade.

There's knowledge waiting to be gained all around you in just about

everything. There's benefit to putting yourself in an information rich

environment like a university IF you've got the right attitude. If

you're looking for anything to be learned from anywhere you can get

it, rather than looking for the one "motherlode" of useful information

where you've got everything together. You have to glean things. You

have to be able to grab things from anywhere you can get it.

During the development of Quake when we hired Michael Abrash, I was

really psyched about that because I learned a lot of my early PC

programming skills - assembly language and graphics - from his

articles in Dr. Dobbs. So that was really great to bring him on. I did

pick up some further things from him but it was interesting...it was

almost uncomfortable for a while because he got fairly deferential on

the programming side to me about things. Michael knew an immense

amount of stuff, but I've still been on this very quick learning

curve.

So almost all the programmers I've worked with, I've learned something

from.

(bold codes are mine)

As you can see, he may have once been quite arrogant, but judging by this interview he isn't quite so today.

This matters little

[MSBob]

I'm gonna be pissing on the parade here but this GPL release is not going to change the state of linux gaming. Currently the biggest issue with linux gaming is a lack of easily configurable 3D which translates to a lack of decent 3D games.

Don't get me wrong I appreciate this Christmas gift from ID as much as the next nerd but I doubt this will have much of an effect on Open Source gaming as a whole.... But it's cool nonetheless :)

Thank you IdSoftware.

Re:This matters little

[juju2112]

Perhaps some enterprising programmer will take the Quake 3 engine and make it more easily configurable?

Re:This matters little

[juju2112]

Doh! I meant to say 'Quake 2'. Preview is now my friend...

Re:This matters little

[jslag]

I'm gonna be pissing on the parade here but this GPL release is not going to change the state of linux gaming.

Probably won't end world hunger either. So? Let's appreciate what JC does, not complain that he doesn't solve all our problems for us.

Re:This matters little

[entrigant]

I'm gonna be pissing on your parade here too, but I honestly don't think the intention was to change the state of linux gaming. Believe it or not Quake2 isn't a Linux only game. This also might surprise you, but it's been out for a while too... What you just said would be like saying releasing the doom source was for the purpose of improving linux gaming. That wasn't the idea.

Re:This matters little

[D2Deek]

Perhaps some enterprising programmer will take the Quake 3 engine and make it more easily configurable?

You bet your ass. Over at QuakeForge, we've already got a tree for it up and running. Look for more stability, among other things, to come from this.

Oh, we'll be porting code from our own source to the Quake II codebase, and vice versa -- so some really neat things will be happening because of this. Thanks, John!

Re:This matters little

[Qbertino]

>Currently the biggest issue with linux gaming is a
>lack of easily configurable 3D which translates to
>a lack of decent 3D games.

I've got 'Descent 3' in 3D for Linux. It run's great. And you can't get any more of that on other plattforms. Wokawoka, hehehe!

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

Re:This matters little

[jedidiah]

This is simple FUD. Easily configurable 3D has been available for some months now. The most bleeding edge cards might not be supported in a timely fashion but that's an entirely different problem.

Once the support is there, the like of Mandrake make sure that it's easy to exploit.

Merry XMAS - Have a SLASHDOT CANDY CANE

[Anonymous Cornered]

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c f4f4b 4
b a5d9b 8
c d1e0a 8
f a7c1a 8
a e9f7a 4
d c0d9f 3
b b1b4b 7
f a4c3b6
3 6f1e9
6 7a0e
2 3d2
5 3d
1d SLASHDOT b
2d8 LAMENESS 4
4a6a FILTER a
ac7f4b 6
e f1e6e 5
b c9e5b 7
f e5c9e 4
e a8a7e 5
d e8e3f 4
d d0a2c 5
a e1d5c 5
d a1c3e 2
e e7e8b2
7 2b0b7
3 6b6b
1 3a1
3 7e

Have a nice SLASHDOT CANDY CANE

[Anonymous Cornered]

6aSLASHDOTa
0e4LAMENESS9
4f7cFILTERe
ed8c6d6
aa9a7c4
cc4b3e5
ad5e1c7
ae8f5a5
ed6d9c3
da2d2e4
ba7a7d6
fb0b2b8
ed4a8d8
21c2a6
35b3f
44b6
45e
2cSLASHDOTd
7b1LAMENESS7
1f3dFILTERa
eb6d2b1
ff7a3f9
df7e7f1
dc7c1b0
ea0b2c3
ae5a4f8
cd2a7c7
fb3d5a2
bc2a3c0
bd7f2d8
27b2e7
73d6d
55f4
39a
9bSLASHDOTb
7c6LAMENESS1
9f2bFILTERf
aa5e4d8
ac8b8a0
be1d0a0
fc3c1b1
fc4d8e8
df7b3f6
dc7d3b0
fe2e4a1
be5f6a7
af5b7a0
96d6f1
68d7c
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08c
4bSLASHDOTb
7f6LAMENESS8
3d4aFILTERa
fe2f3e7
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bf8c7d4
bf4f2f5
ce1f8e1
eb8b1b7
fe1d3e6
de7a3a5
fe7a6e5
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8aSLASHDOTb
0d3LAMENESS4
3a8eFILTERd
ae2e9a9
dd9a4d9
ea8b1c3
ae1b5e2
ee7e5e3
ec6c7d0
bd2e2b5
ae7c5a7
ed9d2a4
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4aSLASHDOTd
4e5LAMENESS4
5f7eFILTERf
ce7f6c5
db5c6d2
ea7e9a7
ec3f6c1
af0e9d9
df9c2b6
cb1c6b8
ae3c4f6
cd0b1c9
ab1d2d9
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32f
6aSLASHDOTe
7f3LAMENESS8
2c3fFILTERf
fa8b5d4
ac0b5a5
ea9e2a7
fc9a5f1
ec8a8c3
cb5f3b7
eb3c5d8
fc2d1c4
cd4d7c8
ca8d3a2
55c4b4
88c6f
62a2
04f
2dSLASHDOTd
4d7LAMENESS6
3e1dFILTERc
ae1a0d9
fd1e8b2
ed2b4b2
fd6b5d3
ff5b9e6
fe9e7f2
fe0a4f1
cb7d8f2
ac5c6c2
aa2e3c8
89e6b8
34b3e
47a9
87f
8bSLASHDOTa
2d4LAMENESS1
9a0aFILTERf
ed3d4f0
ba2e3a6
cc1b5f6
de4c7d2
db7f5f0
fd0a1b8
ec2b3b9
cf4b2d8
ab2d1f5
fa5f9a2
05f0b8
52c1f
49a3
29a
1cSLASHDOTf
7c8LAMENESS6
4f8eFILTERc
ac7f5a5
ce8e6a9
ab2d8b3
cb2d6b1
ca2e1d2
ec7e7e5
cd4c4f6
df1f9e5
dd0d6d1
bd1d1d1
47e8a3
76d2a
94f1
44e
4aSLASHDOTa
5c2LAMENESS4
7a4eFILTERd
dc1a7c3
ee3a6d5
ec9e6b9
be5c5d5
dc5e1f6
fe8f0d9
ae2a4d5
ef3f5f9
aa3b4e8
ed1c3e6
21d3e7
99f6e
73b5
21f
3eSLASHDOTc
4e5LAMENESS6
1a8cFILTERf
dc7c2b3
bf1a7a4
fa5e2c0
fd1c8b6
ff5d9a6
cd2f5f3
fc9b5f8
ef8a2c7
cc8a6b2
ae8b8c5
75b4d7
36c4a
15c5
91d
4dSLASHDOTb
6f2LAMENESS6
1c7bFILTERd
cb4e4d8
ea7d3b1
bb4f4c5
be1d7b1
bc9d1a3
bf8e1c7
ca2b6e0
df2c3c6
ac7f3a7
ef9e6d5
80a1b1
28a4a
69d5
77f
1cSLASHDOTb
7b1LAMENESS2
8c5dFILTERb
aa0e1c1
eb3c6f7
da7f3f7
cc0a1f4
db6c5c8
ed3d0d8
ae8a6e5
be1f4b7
ba3f7d5
ce5e4c6
18e8b4
96a8f
31d8
85c
7bSLASHDOTa
9f6LAMENESS5
4e5fFILTERe
bf6e1e6
eb6a6b0
ee7c3d4
cf8b2d9
ad8c9b4
cd1e4b5
ba1c1c8
fb0a3f1
ea7f4d8
da7f8b9
49b8b7
76e7d
55b3
48a
6eSLASHDOTd
6a3LAMENESS4
1b2bFILTERb
ba0b6c0
ec9e0e7
ef3a1f7
bc6d7d5
de8b4c7
bf2c2c1
dc6a7a0
fa3c4d6
ef5e1f7
be2a8a2
74b7f1
67a2f
45a8
69e
6cSLASHDOTb
7f5LAMENESS6
5a2fFILTERe
dd7c7e6
ec2d8f8
ae4a4d2
fb5b7b8
ab6e3b7
ec3f0e5
cd8f4d5
cd1d1d0
bc4a1e7
bb8e1b5
81d3e4
32d6f
53b9
22c
6eSLASHDOTe
9b3LAMENESS4
3f2eFILTERa
cd4a8b0
bd5d5a4
fe5d4d3
eb2c3d1
cc4b3b2
da8b5e3
ec6d3b7
ed6d8b0
cf4e9e3
bd8a8c9
65d9c0
50c7c
23a4
46d
8fSLASHDOTb
6a5LAMENESS2
3b6cFILTERd
ea8c3f8
cb4a4d4
cf4f4b4
ba5d9b8
cd1e0a8
fa7c1a8
ae9f7a4
dc0d9f3
bb1b4b7
fa4c3b6
36f1e9
67a0e
23d2
53d
1dSLASHDOTb
2d8LAMENESS4
4a6aFILTERa
ac7f4b6
ef1e6e5
bc9e5b7
fe5c9e4
ea8a7e5
de8e3f4
dd0a2c5
ae1d5c5
da1c3e2
ee7e8b2
72b0b7
36b6b
13a1
37e

Re:Have a nice SLASHDOT CANDY CANE

[Klerck]

Nice job!

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Re:hmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

quake 2 under gpl....does this mean that we might see q2 bundled with a shiny new linux distro in the future?? be nice to see a quake 2 shortcut in my kde menu..also be nice to have quake2 and not have to fiddle moving pak.0's from folder to folders and downloading such an array of files in order to get it to run properly.

Mirror

[tunah]

Break my computer

until the GPL???

[Anonymous Coward]

The source code for Quake 2 is now available until the GPL license.

Until the GPL what?

WARNING -- FILE CONTAINS GOATSEX PICTURES

[Anonymous Coward]

Subject says it all.

Re:hmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

The game paks cannot be freely redistributed at all. Your solution would be breaking the law.

WARNING -- DO NOT READ THE PARENT POST, SUBLIMINAL

[Anonymous Coward]

The parent post is a subliminal GOATSEX picture, do NOT read it. Thank you.

Yo John C, I know you're here.

[eAndroid]

Thanks bro, you and your cronies rock.

I know you're here, and will read this if it doesn't get modded to hell.

Thanks, John. Thanks for Castle Wolfenstien which I had to sneak onto the computer without my parents noticing. Thanks for the Dooms which wasted too much of my time (but still, not enough). Thanks for Quake II that destroyed some of my University grades. And especially thanks for the cool Quake 3 tin that the Linux version came in.

page lengthening post!

[Klerck]

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Money and other problems

[DragonMagic]

First off, Carmack seems to release the source code after two other complete games come out. Q1 Source came out after Q3A hit the shelves, now Q2 after Return to Castle Wolfenstein.

But don't forget, that if they released the source code when the game was being created, not only couldn't they make money on the license, but also other companies would be able to compete on the same level without paying a price for it.

Carmack gets paid for his programming skills, but you're arguing that he should get paid to program *everyone's* game, including his competitor, from one company. All the other companies could release their own Quake 3 Arena clones and make money, without even bothering to do anything with the programming.

And don't forget, that when Q3A sold for $40+, id didn't get all $40. It goes from id, to Activision, to the distributor, sometimes to the wholesaler or direct to the big name store, and then possibly to a smaller store. By then, after the expenses of doing the packaging and the duplication, you're talking only a couple dollars profit per game direct to id... Split that among their, what, twelve workers now in the proper ratios, and that's not that much. Less than a dollar each, probably.

Even multiplied by a few million, that's not that much money to pay those huge salaries. How do they make it up? Licensing.

With licensing, there is *no* middleman. It's a contract between id and the company licensing the engine. In the end, it's probably a larger chunk of change than a first month's release returns.

And secondly, you have to remember, as with Carmack's .plan update, that when you release the full code, people *will* find the ways they can use to cheat. They can modify the source for themselves, recompile the engine, and have it work for them. Therefore, the rampant cheats would cause multiplayer to go to pot upon release.

No, what Carmack does is *more* than enough, and these are the factors not only he, but id and other people who can understand the business, realize, and have to protect not only themselves, but their consumers, from these problems.

Re:Money and other problems

[kberg108]

thank you for the sanity.

Re:Money and other problems

[Ironpoint]

>>First off, Carmack seems to release the source code after two other complete games come out. Q1 Source came out after Q3A hit the shelves, now Q2 after Return to Castle Wolfenstein.

>>But don't forget, that if they released the source code when the game was being created, not only couldn't they make money on the license, but also other companies would be able to compete on the same level without paying a price for it.

snip, snip

To add to what you have said, I believe there were two factors for the timing of the release:

1. Its Christmas

2. With Anachronox's release, there were no more Quake 2 licensed games in production.

asdfasdf

[Anonymous Coward]

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actually, you can probably even do that

[markj02]

I don't think the GPL would require you to share media that are associated with the engine, since the GPL only talks about source code and linking. So, if you want to create a commercial game that people can't distribute freely based on the Quake2 engine, you can probably even do that.

Re:actually, you can probably even do that

[erikdalen]

well, isn't that exactly what ID has done. both with doom, quake, wolfenstein and now with quake 2. so you still have to buy the game to play it. you only get the engine for free.

Re:actually, you can probably even do that

[MindStalker]

Yes, but you probably couldn't include code to require cd-keys and such as if its open, it would be impossible to safeguard.

Re:actually, you can probably even do that

[markj02]

Sure you can: through the miracle of cryptography. Look at how UNIX passwords work. (The only reason we have shadow passwords is because people tend to choose weak passwords and because the crypt algorithm has gotten kind of weak, but neither of those are problems for game keys.)

Re:actually, you can probably even do that

[MindStalker]

Then you'd have to encrypt the the content files you include, that would get icky, and slow the game down.

page lengthening post!

[Klerck]

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2
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1
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1
6
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2
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3
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1
1
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6
7
4
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5
5
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4
6
4
3
1
4
5
7
8
2
4
3
3
1
2
8
5
7
4
8
8
8
3
2
9
3
9
5
2
8
5
6
8
1
1
1
2
4
4
8
1
3
5
6
5
9
2
4
2
2
8
9
8
9
3
2
2
7
8
6
8
8
2
9
2
3
9
6
8
8
1
2
3
7
2
6
5
6
5
7
1
5
9
6
3
4
3
1
9
2
3
3
8
1
2
1
1
9
9
6
5
5
5
3
4
5
7
6
9
2
1
1
3
9
4
7
5
4
6
4
3
4
8
4
1
1
7
8
3
8
3
5
3
5
7
7
9
6
9
7
4
9
1
6
7
7
8
5
9
9
4
5
7
3
7
2
7
4
2
4
4
5
7
6
8
4
1
6
6
4
9
6
5
2
9
8
2
8
6
7
7
4
5
6
8
8
5
5
3
9
9
2
5
6
3
4
5
9
6
1
6
7
8
9
3
4
7
7
6
2
4
1
1
4
2
6
9
5
1
8
6
3
3
7
2
3
6
9
2
9
4
5
4
4
2
5
9
4
6
5
9
8
2
6
2
4
1
8
4
7
2
7
6
2
2
9
2
5
7
9
8
3
3
2
9
2
4
5
1
1
7
5
9
7
2
5
5
4
6
8
5
9
1
7
3
2
3
9
4
3

8
7
6
8
7
1
6
5
8
5
1
1
6
1
8
1
1

Quad Candy Canes -- ENJOY !!!

[Anonymous Coward]

6dSLASHDOTa8cSLASHDOTc2bSLASHDOTf 5bSLASHDOTd
5f6LAMENESS04d3LAMENESS64d3LAMENESS1 3c0LAMENESS3
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73f529f578a8 27a9
06a45c47c 46c
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0c7LAMENESS18d4LAMENESS15c5LAMENESS8 9f6LAMENESS5
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13f449c601f4 42a4
86f72e49e 97f
7bSLASHDOTa0eSLASHDOTb8cSLASHDOTa 6eSLASHDOTe
3a5LAMENESS23b3LAMENESS14d6LAMENESS6 4c8LAMENESS8
7b7bFILTERfe2cFILTERe4f6fFILTERd e6dFILTERc
fc8e6a8de3f2e5fe3b6e1 ab6e8e4
fe3f5a1fb4c5b0bc3d2e2 ce5c8d7
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cd2c4c6fa7a8e1ff4b7d2 dc1a0f4
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ae3d8c3ee8a8e2df3b4d2 ae8f8b8
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bf8b6f1db7f4e7ee3d2c1 fd4d5a8
bd2f6d5af2d4a0ff7f9a2 bd8a5a5
43d7e747a2d135c5e5 48c8a3
90e0e98f3b86e3d 20b2e
43c496d229b1 81f9
54c38c48a 72d
2fSLASHDOTb4aSLASHDOTf8aSLASHDOTe 8fSLASHDOTf
5d4LAMENESS17c3LAMENESS52c9LAMENESS2 6f2LAMENESS3
8f6eFILTERea4cFILTERf1c4cFILTERd a8eFILTERe
de3c6f1ea8a9d6bd7f8e7 fd6e8d2
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cc9d3e8ef6c9d3ae4d5a8 fe3d3f5
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df3d9f4eb1b8a8bc0a3d2 ae8b0d8
fc4f1a6ec7b1f1ee8b6a8 ff0d6f8
75f3b706f6e121a7a1 85a1d9
86b9c13c8f75b3a 66d5c
34e665b125d6 37d3
77b37f83b 26a
8eSLASHDOTd2eSLASHDOTb6cSLASHDOTd 8fSLASHDOTd
3a0LAMENESS73b7LAMENESS79d7LAMENESS1 3a3LAMENESS3
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3aSLASHDOTa4eSLASHDOTd0bSLASHDOTd 6cSLASHDOTf
1d9LAMENESS74c2LAMENESS42f1LAMENESS2 3b1LAMENESS3
3d7aFILTERff5cFILTERb5d8aFILTERf c7aFILTERf
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37e1b75d8d31b7d 97e8d
54e415b263b4 86c0
48b42e50c 68d
6aSLASHDOTd1cSLASHDOTf7dSLASHDOTa 1dSLASHDOTe
8a0LAMENESS64c8LAMENESS50d5LAMENESS7 3d3LAMENESS4
4e3cFILTERcf9eFILTERb4a4cFILTERc c6dFILTERf
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cb2f8b9ef0d9d5df5a4c5 dd8c0b2
ed5f8e0ab4f8c7bd4e7a7 ea0d8a3
ef1e4f1ef1b6c7ee0c4c0 fb6e5a6
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da3d6a8da3d8b6ff0d2a9 fd0a4e3
bf0c5c0af1d2c1cb8e1b8 ba3c6e3
41b2b758f8b585a9d4 24c9a8
86b8b35e6b08e1f 48b6d
60a518d641b7 69a4
97d20c46d 68d
5aSLASHDOTb7bSLASHDOTe1cSLASHDOTb 0fSLASHDOTc
2b3LAMENESS31c3LAMENESS63e7LAMENESS4 7e3LAMENESS1
6f8dFILTERaf1aFILTERc7c3dFILTERf d8eFILTERd
cd7d4b8df5b4e8ce7d7f9 ae6d1b3
fd2e1f2cf8b6e3cc1b8f6 cc1a9e7
bd6e2d2ba1d6a8bf0d3e4 fa7e9c5
cf8a3a4da6d4c8ee6c8a4 fc9a1b5
bf6b1c5ae6c5e4cb2e0d5 bf8a3a4
fb9d5d4ab1a5d3be5e4d4 de8c1b5
cc6a3f1ec5e2b8dc8e5b5 ab7d5c1
bb0b3c9de1c8c3cc7a5f4 eb1d0d9
cf4b2e5df5e2a6ca4e2e1 ed6b4a5
cb8f7f4cf7b1f7ea8c5f2 ae6c5e1
37e4a718a8e378b3c2 37a5d9
72d2e88f3e63a7b 17d2d
52c987f250c2 86b7
24b46d15b 36f
5bSLASHDOTc5aSLASHDOTa3cSLASHDOTc 1cSLASHDOTe
6d6LAMENESS81a1LAMENESS14d5LAMENESS6 6b7LAMENESS3
5f7bFILTERad7fFILTERa4d3dFILTERa c3aFILTERd
fc6a5b3af5b5d3de4f4b6 fc6f3b0
cc8b0a5fa7c0e8ce8f6d6 dc2c4b1
ca8e4c0cb1e5a7ce1d5d2 ea1d2b3
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bc3b7d7eb6f8f9af7f4e3 aa8e5d3
af6d2c7fb6f7f3ff0b9b4 ad4b6a2
bd6f6b3dc9e3f2fa6a5d3 ad3c4e3
ec3a5e6cf5f2e1df2c3d2 ec4d7c2
ec6c5c3cf7d1f8ab5c5a9 ea6a0a7
da0c8c3eb5d7d1df7e0a5 ba4d1c1
34f1d073e9c845a7b8 83e0e8
33d6d07b6c44b0d 17e7e
29c403c112c8 47e3
65b72d63d 24c
7dSLASHDOTf2fSLASHDOTb3eSLASHDOTe 4eSLASHDOTe
3d5LAMENESS07f5LAMENESS31a2LAMENESS6 4a9LAMENESS8
4f1fFILTERaa6cFILTERd5d5bFILTERf d0cFILTERb
da5a1d4ce2b3f1db9c7b7 db2e9f4
da0c3d1af0a2f6ce3a9a6 dc5f1c5
bb2d6f5fb6d8f5ac4f5c5 ea2e6e7
ea2a0d2bc3e8d8da8c1a0 eb1d0f4
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cc3b4c5fe4b7c8ea1b6d9 ad6c1b2
13f9b334f6a369b1f2 04e8a7
48c7f63e7c97e8b 66d3d
46e193b402a1 16a7
27d83b14a 22d
2cSLASHDOTa8bSLASHDOTd7fSLASHDOTf 1bSLASHDOTc
1f7LAMENESS43f2LAMENESS37c1LAMENESS1 7f9LAMENESS8
3e6fFILTERcc5fFILTERf4b2bFILTERe e3fFILTERb
cb3a8d0bf7e2c8ae0e4f2 fc1b7c4
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dc7f6b2cb1d6a1ea5c8a8 ca1c9f5
ed7f9a2cf3b5b0fe0c6a4 ac5d5b7
ea6d7e6ae4f3a2ea7c8f4 dd3e8a4
ac7b4c7ad2e4c6df9b8a2 af6e4e5
aa1c6e8cd6e7c6ae4e5d5 ec4a7b5
aa9d4d1ae1a5d7de6b1a1 eb7c4e8
31f1f960f1d637c8d5 64f8d1
21e6c20a6c40e5f 78f8e
75a744e332e8 18f5
67c67f75d 71f
3bSLASHDOTf3aSLASHDOTf6bSLASHDOTc 3aSLASHDOTd
3c4LAMENESS30f5LAMENESS63b8LAMENESS3 1f0LAMENESS8
6e8aFILTERbb4fFILTERc2e4bFILTERb a0cFILTERd
db3e3a5aa8b4c1dc3f1a2 ed2f1f7
af4b1b4cf4d5e2bf8c8b9 fa1c1a7
ff7e6c6aa2c1f3aa2b3f0 ab9d8a9
bf0c7e1dd7f3c7aa2c3b5 ee4c8e9
cb8c6e0ec0d2e2ac1e1b8 da2a4b8
eb9d2e4fb6d8c5cc6d7c5 ae2a0d8
ee7e6a9bb8a2d8bf4c2a8 ab6c6f4
bd9c8c5bb3e7e8ed8a5e3 ab8f8c5
ac5a8a6df6e4b4ab1c5f3 fb5f9f5
ce4b8c2ec0b5d3bd5a3e3 ad6d5f6
22f3c822a6c565a5e5 36c0c1
18c5a57a9f37b9f 13d7a
35c862a267f6 46d7
31d73f83f 54a
2aSLASHDOTc1eSLASHDOTd7eSLASHDOTd 4dSLASHDOTa
4c3LAMENESS61d3LAMENESS22e6LAMENESS2 6f1LAMENESS0
2d3aFILTERfc7dFILTERc1f5eFILTERb c9cFILTERf
ab7e9a3aa1c8a6bc6e2d9 ae4a0e9
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fb8b9a6bb7f4b3bf6a6d9 dd7e7b3
fc6a1c1cc2a8d4bd3a3b5 bf5d2e2
df8e0d4ed7e0a7ea0a5e0 fc8f1c7
fa7e7c7fc3b8a4ba0f6e8 ae8e1c7
bd9e4e7dc6f4d9aa5a8c1 ef0d5e4
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ac1f4c3eb7f5d3ec2d5f9 ca1c5e8
62c8e624c9f718e3e1 12f8d4
65a4c88e7f75d7c 68c4e
03d242e468a0 32a3
15d82e66f 28b
1dSLASHDOTb4cSLASHDOTe3eSLASHDOTa 3eSLASHDOTe
2e3LAMENESS31b1LAMENESS14a3LAMENESS0 1a2LAMENESS2
1b0cFILTERec4fFILTERf4b8dFILTERe a8dFILTERa
ef8e7b7eb7d6b3dc9a1e6 da5f0d7
cc4b7d9ef2f6e1fa3a8a2 ba4a2d6
df6c2b6cd2c2f2ed0e8c8 cb6e8a2
ba0f5a0da5e5a0ce2c8e2 cb3c1a4
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ae6a0b1ba6f9d6be8a4c2 bd7b1f0
df2d6f6ea8b5b4cf1d5e5 ef4c1f0
cf4e6c1bb6b1b2bc5a8f4 ff3e2d1
cd9b8b5cb1d7a2df1d3d4 db0e8e8
ff2b2a2ca8b1d8be6a4a4 eb1c6a8
97c3a174e7a772b3d4 63a4f4
04e5f05a0d89e8f 78d9a
61f872d705a8 57f4
84b45f22e 98f
4eSLASHDOTb2dSLASHDOTe6aSLASHDOTe 5aSLASHDOTd
8e4LAMENESS55f8LAMENESS48f7LAMENESS5 7b1LAMENESS5
7d5fFILTERab2cFILTERa3a5dFILTERa d6cFILTERd
be6e4c4ae3f4b6ec6b6c3 eb7b2b0
af9c6b8eb9c5c3bb4b3e8 dd6f7c2
ee9f4a2dc5d0a8eb7f2c0 cd2c0a1
fe6f3f2ab4c4d2bb1a7f3 be1e3c0
bf6c1a3cf2e3f5bb5c3e1 ed6e8c3
fd8a8e9ce8e6c1cc7f5c6 aa0d5a1
be5f4f4cc5b4b4cf4f5b2 ee7b6d4
cb4c4e2ff7f2e1ff7d8b2 df2f6d9
bb6c4f2da7e8c2ee7a7c4 ba1f9f1
cb8e6d5bc2b3a3aa0e7a7 fa6c7c4
62d7e126c1e057f4e5 86d5d1
23e8a51f5f79d7a 96c2a
43d526f896e2 12b7
50e67e45a 53a
4fSLASHDOTc3cSLASHDOTb0bSLASHDOTe 9bSLASHDOTf
7a8LAMENESS02a5LAMENESS59c6LAMENESS2 5e6LAMENESS8
3d5aFILTERfc1dFILTERf0a0bFILTERc f1eFILTERa
ac3b5f0df2c5c2be5e7e9 bf6c1d2
af4e8e1ba1a1a0cb6a3e1 da4b8a2
ea6b7d2ff2e1b6df3f3c3 ba8f1e9
ef8f8a5ea7b8b6ac1f5e3 cb2b8b5
da8d4d8de6a6e1be7d7a5 cf8f9c6
bc7d5d3bb2c1d6fe2a5b2 fd5f0f3
cf8d5c2bc0f2f8bd2f6a0 de7d1b7
fc2d5e7bd6e8e1fd4a5b1 bc7b8b0
be9d7b9cd6b2c1dd1b1a7 be6a3c9
bb3d1d1cc2b7a4af0f4c2 ba2a6c5
42b9b560c8f696d0d0 56b4f6
14b3d46c3e58a4b 16a7d
12c043c547f5 47e4
86a33a47e 44f
1fSLASHDOTf6bSLASHDOTa2bSLASHDOTa 3bSLASHDOTc
9d1LAMENESS53d3LAMENESS54d4LAMENESS4 4b5LAMENESS3
4f0cFILTERae3eFILTERa5e8dFILTERa c3dFILTERf
de6c4d5be4f8d4ca3d7d7 ff1c6b8
df6d2d2af6d0e2bc9a8b7 de6b6f6
bb6d8a8ef9a1b1ef0f5a3 ab9c1a6
ee0b5d7fe3e8d5cd3a0b1 bc3e3e4
fe8e3d8ae0e6c8be0f1e0 db4e1d5
de1c2f9ed2c3a4df9c7e0 cf6b2b5
df1a3b4ce1d5c3ec5b5d8 de1d7b2
ac4b1d1da3d1f4cf7b5a5 da0e6e3
dc5b5b6cf7f0a5ed6c4d4 ea4f3c6
aa1e9e8fb2d4f8ec5e2b5 bb3a8b6
48b6a417f6d648b8f9 19a9f4
72e5f31c4b63e0f 17d6c
08b642c333f2 67d6
80c67a27f 67e
7cSLASHDOTf1fSLASHDOTc8dSLASHDOTf 7cSLASHDOTe
3f7LAMENESS43d7LAMENESS12e2LAMENESS8 1d4LAMENESS0
5b1cFILTERfb4cFILTERf2c1eFILTERc d1aFILTERc
da6b3c5fd1e2f7ff8f5d2 bd3f5e9
cf8d6c6fe0b3a3dd6b4e2 cb4e1a7
cb1f5b7ae5b1c4cc4a2a6 ee4b8e5
aa3e9d3dd8a1d9bd5c8c0 cc5f2e4
df6a8f4ba7a6f7ce8f3f2 eb7b5e0
bf7c2c5eb8d6b8de8a4f4 da8e4c4
ed2a4e4af5c0e6dd4f1a2 df5d5a4
df3e7b9ad2a1f8de3c6a7 df1e8f8
ad1c4e4cb7a6c5dd6d3c8 ed3d3b0
ad7a7a6bc5a4a7ac1c6d5 fd8a0c9
81b3b644d8d108d7e3 25f7b3
70c1d44d8f21a1d 85d1c
63c523e897f0 10b7
47a85e29b 21a

thank you

[ArchieBunker]

ahhh the usefulness of the lameness filter never ceases to amaze me. wanna bet if you pasted the script to generate that it would bitch?

page lengthening post!

[Klerck]

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Re:hmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

There are mods that do use their own textures and game media that are freely distributable. Linux distros can use those mods.

Merry FUCKING XMAS -- Have a CANDY CANE !!!

[Anonymous Coward]

8b c
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play with your friends

[Anonymous Coward]

Because that way, if they cheat on you, you can be sure of what you suspected all along: you really have no friends.

Man seeks well-hung wild black stallion for intense homosexual experiences. Email Rob Malda, aka. CmdrTaco.

COMPILING on Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Was someone able to compile it on Red hat 7.2?

Re:COMPILING on Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

I did but I'm not gonna tell you how...fuckface!

COMPILING ON RED HAT 7.2

[Anonymous Coward]

Was someone able to compilke it on Red Hat 7.2?

Darn cool

[Error27]

I would say something like, "I wish more game companies would open source their old games."

But I can't say that because Quake II isn't that old yet.

Instead I'll just say a big, "Thank you," to ID. It's darn, darn cool to open the source on this.

CVS Repository

[Bill Currie]

The QuakeForge project has the quake2 source available in cvs. While we don't yet have any concrete plans (other than porting some of our q1 enhancements), I've already got the core building in linux.

cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.quakeforge.net:/cvsroot/qua ke login (no password)
cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.quakeforge.net:/cvsroot/qua ke co quake2

another mirror..

[rehabdoll]

http://ftp.fragzone.se/index.php?s=&p=spel/pr/quak e2/source/

one

[Anonymous Coward]

411846763342650019169&nbsp ;1572411478293582696224464 57052814523281168279 96149129951194248275 43632391146043902153 29212382174211871619718&nb sp;19895544721726147711153 81869199122566726299 170359894287032381131322&n bsp;3033317673466415141771 12825368682554727644 326623275720037128598723&n bsp;974127529778123163035& nbsp;221901842288301069040 89421926422648274462 38051589067292437015350&nb sp;15006311012439335481962 912623240841995418756&nbsp ;11840496673761393126308&n bsp;1694432439246261132355 372153816118208222929&nbsp ;16541483331115463929658&n bsp;2270499301397723063167 32238650212874526924 19072627058292677715573&nb sp;50971651223986132909161 18636223552476723655 15574403112052273501150&nb sp;16941217241396634303110 730191180071133715457&nbsp ;122872775310383149458909& nbsp;322099758242211858864 2224946275061303016413&nbs p;2916890032591187621655&n bsp;1741063592762420537215 48648327595404136022 43501029130836937411020&nb sp;45962402127348231991966 82448482814734531999 26418279386900378818 12746737281489324648 22483178072421143106617&nb sp;22813951414309761618935 17451206005249165193 15562279830303622411008&nb sp;58443260914989327023195 20485309314343305231 587293149503744825200&nbsp ;134586618205801979614798& nbsp;152811958920798280092 715720472236221853812292&n bsp;6038241791819029657795 86191198152288819156 115111620226342427220055&n bsp;2032822646263624886188 7528433298692014223844&nbs p;141621881319981032218651 10021569935572847627 892243895075107122600&nbsp ;251021003268691786114688& nbsp;134019789152551642350 0210585241821028527088&nbs p;314262861723757983230932 41692154257211718919 9763132923682869221425&nbs p;1055534341654974419512&n bsp;3014518060217183753161 3912423162792599616687&nbs p;125292254917437198661294 91932319532972041628 28616105244881628212455&nb sp;25734181141170131316206 71578612263431324355 3118520053912108081832&nbs p;209454313277562832119558 23646279824814144231 96202227129216155352 045011173104661204421659&n 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323566072293501882314485&n bsp;2055623216162693578526 13357293372327123869 2936112896130222961710112& nbsp;127171869611585240412 4423241292422945656559&nbs p;893222296298551205316962 35842973466541697221 457143692253229632607&nbsp ;2483911116351006722848&nb sp;46751293822232214223754 65112274120175214591 7825322117870162631934&nbs p;152053178323850173982227 92270112193127341637 26534555619931017625705&nb sp;6962105481588130014413& nbsp;166411985524855131421 146227611308772042432678&n bsp;1752184432829612673100 40931387520072128186 101017149322811230695&nbsp ;1316923831200402648828685 19090194972589259901 514519353193141865126740&n bsp;2204411258335875911192 76052526412181285033 8292377520608292925997&nbs p;175492955625561316276467 29541261293124027813 29174206016077202158683&nb sp;82132399225824560123392 15759267026428280274 08410075187861549824970&nb sp;6287238473260450321221& nbsp;226635706236390102217 127489182401216425542&nbsp ;7619209137591670431818&nb sp;92327502520549751539&nb 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22161316204343957811 87113130634591593420 415656297612501228411&nbsp ;1195916251187381337026124 55078007175841095123 1011448924958154411790&nbs p;170133041214855210607093 84722540232676135437 3736266276511527521528&nbs p;5321076154693250332729&n bsp;1710727892245117953283 9222570135191947223407&nbs p;224949505284402038314262 21409286071803843605 47111171206542994711514&nb sp;1452321229489676617887& nbsp;297562663274702573920 66685227283816017553 247052709112592538631687&n bsp;462942283172204512356& nbsp;133882545231543046611 8332776026919256316738&nbs p;212672577621098243141632 013053240071646924216&nbsp ;972219842290071546326260& nbsp;309471379328630187172 304331376253141662617117&n bsp;1334206201417126792896 419154188661469330664&nbsp ;237751300012212211007551& nbsp;254766379109431787737 89361113858272114341 514429561255631450412946&n bsp;2388820308121571430512 36464407443461383719 8125318266111629217591&nbs p;38322712364611699131461& nbsp;273302849817369172918 4001417924117231719914&nbs p;159514415936218677028&nb sp;31453279091397317981115 03265696816188325367 53852840252301715728681&nb sp;1556783101866368713171& nbsp;347731245327646238276 71204726115459227311 32657140553717120580 2274022530136752432025790& nbsp;133771099816586216044 4891963129744838826610&nbs p;187182691918259592714609 28119214792271663002 139616853114582083024593&n bsp;3080629849148542427226 160122941205426333146&nbsp ;422910471104281055922241& nbsp;294212268816366120332 668522702532932261

first impressions...

[markj02]

Looks like nice, clean, readable C code. It's not all that large--175kloc. Memory management via functions wrapping malloc, using some kind of zone strategy. It's interesting that there don't seem to be that many complex data structures--that's probably why this code can still be written reasonably nicely in C with manual storage management.

This code looks very different from what CS courses teach you or expensive OOP consultants recommend. It's kind of reminiscent of the traditional UNIX code: very concrete and just tries to get the job done.

Re:first impressions...

[alargeduck]

ill second that... the code is wonderfully written. now if i only knew what half of it did....

Re:first impressions...

[Anonymous Coward]

"This code looks very different from what CS courses teach you "

Maybe, it is because Carmack never went to a CS course so he never learned programming from them.

Re:first impressions...

[Anonymous Coward]

now if i only knew what half of it did

It's a 3D running shooting and killing game.

Re:first impressions...

[Anonymous Coward]

With bad gameplay. You need to play a human to have fun.

Re:first impressions...

[Anonymous Coward]

Does your small penis make you so angry that you need to lash out at the world? I can't believe you could even attempt to insult someone that has only given to the gaming community, linux community, open source community, coder community... well, and Carmack has given to the entire community.

You on the other hand, troll, take away from the community with your trashy self. BE GONE!

Re:first impressions...

[kreyg]

I thought it looked almost exactly like typical CS code, actually not too different from my style.... until I saw line 577 in ref_gl/gl_light.c:

"store:"

WTF? Search "store"....

Line 488:

"goto store;"

And the style Nazi in me went: NNNOOOOOOOO! :-)

This must be a remnant of something, an "else" would have sufficed. :-)

Re:first impressions...

[Anonymous Coward]

"big complex things dont come from small complex things, they come from small simple things"

or something like that..

Re:first impressions...

[BCoates]

I can't believe you could even attempt to insult someone that has only given to the gaming community, linux community, open source community, coder community... well, and Carmack has given to the entire community.

I know you're just a troll yourself, but the idea that being generous makes you above criticism is an interesting one...

--
Benjamin Coates

Re:first impressions...

[Anonymous Coward]

Try playing Quake 1 or Quake 2 single player, if just fucking sucks. There is no gameplay to be found in the single player.

Re:first impressions...

[BinBoy]

There are 76 gotos in the various *.c files.

Re:first impressions...

[simm_s]

I guess you do not write much kernel code. I see gotos all of the time high performance C code and interrupt handlers.

Yet another mirror...

[matt-fu]

http://matt.fluxcapacitor.net/quake2.zip

3.16 -vs- 3.20

[mojo-raisin]

Looking at quake2/changes.txt it looks like the version of Quake2 that was GPL'd was 3.16. But id has released binaries of version 3.20.

Anyone know if there are major differences between these versions?

Re:3.16 -vs- 3.20

[GiMP]

I am pretty sure Zoid was working on Quake after 3.16, who has since left iD Software. I do not know any details, but this may be related to why the source is older..

Doesn't matter much anyway, after it gets hacked for a month or two.. it will have the current bugs fixed, and of course a bunch of new ones to worry about :)

Re:3.16 -vs- 3.20

[Anonymous Coward]

probably a lot of network changes to kill off the cheaters. maybe they dont want it so easy for the idiots out there to figure out what the latest changes to the network code is. and maybe some of those methods are used in q3?

Dreamcast game engine?

[NanoGator]

Any chance somebody will set up a Q2 community for improving/modifying the code? I'd really like to monitor what happens here. I can see some really cool potential here.

My personal interest in this project is that some independent game makers make some free, yet good quality games for Dreamcast. Wouldn't that be cool? The DC is $50, and can play burned CD's, which makes it an ideal candidate for this type of thing.

In any case, if the GPL licensing of Q2 sparks some quality spin-offs, this could be a welcome evolution of cross-platform games.

Re:Dreamcast game engine?

[Anonymous Coward]

Quake 1 is on dreamcast and there is not enough ram to load most maps.

Re:Dreamcast game engine?

[GiMP]

Quakeforge, a project improving the original quake, already has the quake2 source in CVS.. you can find them in #quakeforge on OPN.

I did some work on quakeforge a while back, did some cool things.. but I've moved on, however.. myself and others have come back, although I may or may not make any changes.. as I am busy with some other small project at the moment.

Re:Dreamcast game engine?

[Anonymous Coward]

What does this have to do with Quake2 on dreamcast?

Re:3.16 -vs- 3.20 [actually 3.18 -vs- 3.20]

[mojo-raisin]

There are changlogs for 3.1[7,8] I just saw. So there are just a couple of minor version changes -> 3.20 I guess.

Woohoo Quake 2

[Anonymous Coward]

This is just incredable. I thought it was great when thay relased Quake I now Quake 2. I am beyond myself with orgasims.

Oh wait I don't know C. Now I just need to stop takeing them Dam Java and VB(Not my Idea I hate it) classes. Stupid Collage not teaching programing. Looks like I have to lean from a master. (Insert StarWars joke here)

Re:Woohoo Quake 2

[JohnnyBolla]

A master of spelling would be a good start. Seven in six sentences. ( I am mostly just busting your balls, I can't spell misspell correctly)

Re:Woohoo Quake 2

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually 8 misspellings.

It's OK

[Anonymous DWord]

You can say "damn" here, we're all mature enough.

Re:It's OK

[Error27]

Ok. Thanks, for the heads up. :)

Re:It's OK

[Anonymous Coward]

Heheheheheh!

He said 'damn'! Heheheheheheh!

Re:It's OK

[Anonymous Coward]

He is from the Southern Uuunited States! Dere be hicks en dem parts. Gosh darn it!

Re:It's OK

[Anonymous Coward]

Except for the crap flooders...

I'm astonished .. No, amazed.

[i_am_nitrogen]

How does something like this get moderated as insightful? It's just another vulgar flame. Take out the insults and swearing, and there wouldn't be much left.

While it's true that software piracy is damaging to a company, and should not be practiced (do as I say, not as I do ;p j/k), many many people do it. Does that make it right? No. But is it true? Yes.

Personally I intend to use my recently downloaded source for ideas, and to recompile the source with the latest glibc etc. so it will work on my latest system, and debug that annoying segfault at sound initialization with newer kernels and libs, etc. I might even make a little toy with it.

Besides, notice the (*cough*) at the end of his comment? I suspect he may have been trying to make a joke.

Re:I'm astonished .. No, amazed.

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF? That was a totally appropriate response. "Bad words" aren't what makes a post vile, the sentiment of the parent post is really awful. It's not like we don't all know attitudes like that are common, but the audacity of it is what makes /. posters loose all credibility.

Whatever. 99% of the people downloading the source probably couldn't figure out how to re-build the game anyways. They'll just keep using their pirated copies.

Compilation problems

[bug1]

Anyone managed to compile it under linux yet ?

I copied ./linux/Makefile.i386 to ./linux/Makefile, changed MOUNT_DIR= and then ran make from that dir, doesnt compile.

Not including the right header files i think

Re:Compilation problems

[bug1]

More specificaly

/home/bug1/quake2/quake2/client/cl_ents.c:1156: undefined reference to `CL_BlasterTrail2

there are a couple of dozen of these lines, CL_BlasterTrail2 is defined in client.h which is included in this file, so it should give an error.

I guess im overlooking something

Re:Compilation problems

[XoXus]

Check my post a little bit further down, or simply apply this patch:

http://members.optushome.com.au/davidsymonds/q2m ak efile.diff

... to linux/Makefile

F U C K

[Anonymous Coward]

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Woohoo! Portin' time...

[Anonymous Coward]

wow...now I've got something to do this weekend.

I'll get some of my old coding buddies together and we'll port it on over to the Apple IIgs!

Granted it'll probably be a little pokey until we optimize it, but it shouldnt be a major problem. It's still got a software renderer, so no need to port Mesa just yet :)

...now to get a Sourceforge project page.

im still waiting for MSDOS6.3 source code...

[cb0y]

common MS, where the F are you?

I want to build the ultimate mother board with MSD6 on a ROM so I dont need no floppy to boot from.

Re:im still waiting for MSDOS6.3 source code...

[Anonymous Coward]

i realize that this is a joke/troll, but you CAN find the MSDOS6 source out there in internet world, if you know where to look. Its practically all assembly, and rather terrifying.

I CAN'T RUN IT

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't start it. I'm getting the following error:

LoadLibrary("ref_gl.so") failed: can't open /etc/quake2.conf

dfgdfsgsd

[Anonymous Coward]

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2f7a6j
4p1t3w
0r5o0z
6d7f7z
7y3w6a
...bnn

Can't wait...

[T3kno]

How long till we get a hack where you get to blow away UBL and the Mullah.

Actually, it's late.

[Doktor Memory]

Actually, I'm kinda surprised that it took this long. Mr. Carmack had mentioned a while ago (like, 8-12 months) that the only thing holding up the Q2 source release was that they were waiting for the final two Q2-engine-license games to ship, since apparently they were legally embargoed from GPLing the code until that happened. Those two games were, natch, Anachronox and Daikatana (cue inevitable snickering here). Anox shipped several months ago, and, uh, we all know what happened to Daikatana.

Hopefully the fact that it took him so long to get around to packaging up the Q2 source for GPL release means that they've been burning the midnight oil on DOOM 3, and we'll get to see it soon.

Re:Actually, it's late.

[mewsenews]

You are right about the imbargo related to unreleased quake2-engine games, however, it seems to have become tradition to release the code around christmas time (perhaps as a gift), as this is when the Doom code, the Quake code, and now the Quake II code have been released (I'm not sure about Wolf3D's code release date)

q2 source and q3 mods

[Anonymous Coward]

this should definatly help mods such as Reaction Quake3, which are ports of popular Quake2 mods such as Action Quake2. In order for them to be good ports, they had to recreate q2 physics. This was nearly impossible until now with the source code :).

Of course, there are still games with quake2 and quake1 code (especially halflife, which is a quake1-based game with quake2 features). I wonder how id's licensing plans with companies like Valve (who made halflife/counterstrike), interfere with the opening of source code.

Is Santa real?

[tagplazen]

I was a devout unbeliever, but Lord of the Rings, Final Fantasy X, and now this, I'm sure starting to think I might be wrong.

Hey, big jolly guy, if you're still doling out these fabulous holiday goodies, please remember that letter I sent you about smoking cigars in a bathtub full of nitro with Fairuza Balk!

Carmack rocks. Other game programmers might try, but it's for reasons like this we'll always love the man.

345345234534253452

[Anonymous Coward]

6k0r95v2l8
7k4w1d1f2w8f
5h0n8x1i8o5o
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00000000000000000000000000000000

push it

[Anonymous Coward]

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5p7q8c4o8w2r

i seeeeee it i neeeeeeeed it

[Anonymous Coward]

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5p7q8c4o8w2r

Website

[Apotsy]

So does this mean they are finally going to take down the Quake 2 stuff from the front page of their website and replace it with something a little more recent?

Re:Website

[xiana]

Heh, a redesign of the idsoftware.com webpage is in progress, and we should have a brand-spanking new page up in the not so distant future (...hopefully...)

-Xian

i seee it

[Anonymous Coward]

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Pirated? Quake1 a dark feeling?

[NRAdude]

Hell, you can get Quake2 for MS Winblows for $10 in WalMart! At Fry's Electronics, you can buy the Linux version of Quake2 with both awesome Quake2 mission packs for about $30.00! And next to it is usually the Linux version of Quake1 with its mission pack included. Quake1 isn't a dark feeling for me. I just insert my Alice in Chains greatest hits CDROM, play it low, and listen to Art Bell interview and exorcist that enjoys going into houses and bringing out the dead in a family, at 1:00am. Quake1 providing a "dark feeling" isn't quite accurate... It's like watching the movies Friday the 13th, Puppet Master, or Poltergheist when you was 6 years old! The movie, Exorcist doesn't count because they were for real! Those other movies were the freaks that were meant to scare us! God help us all!

Hey moderators!

[Anonymous Coward]

Put down the three dollar crack and do your job. This is the same guy who claims Linux is for goat fagg0ts.

You really want to give him mod points for being a hypocritical liar? Unlike the grandparent post, VALinux is a piece of shit, whose previous posts do nothing but trash this community.

asdf

[Anonymous Coward]

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asdfasdfas

[Anonymous Coward]

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4 6 1 6 8 4 4 2 4 7 5 3 4 6 5 8 5 1 2 1 2 3 2 6 4 1 0 1 1 5 6 7 6 3 6 6 1 1 2 7 5 2 2 2 6 2 2 3 2 2
3 3 3 5 0 9 6 4 6 3 4 4 9 2 7 3 5 6 1 5 3 0 0 8 0 4 9 8 9 6 1 1 5 5 2 8 7 1 3 5 2 3 0 1 2 4 9 3 2 1
6 0 2 8 2 7 6 5 4 2 3 1 5 6 7 7 7 7 4 9 3 5 1 9 1 8 4 5 0 7 5 2 1 9 3 1 7 2 6 1 4 6 6 2 5 7 5 4 4 6
4 5 3 8 0 9 3 4 4 4 9 3 4 3 1 1 7 0 9 8 4 6 7 2 4 8 4 7 3 8 7 4 4 8 3 2 2 1 5 5 6 5 7 4 4 4 8 0 7 5
5 1 4 9 2 1 6 8 4 0 1 0 6 5 9 2 3 8 4 3 6 5 8 5 4 7 5 3 5 2 3 3 5 6 9 6 7 4 7 6 2 3 4 5 8 5 6 9 4 1
8 6 7 2 8 0 5 6 8 9 3 3 7 8 2 2 5 0 1 3 8 7 1 9 8 4 1 3 5 8 3 8 2 0 2 1 7 6 8 7 7 8 5 5 4 7 1 7 6 1
3 2 9 7 2 1 7 5 0 1 4 8 3 2 5 1 9 2 8 4 7 7 5 7 5 6 4 4 2 7 3 1 6 8 1 9 5 8 6 2 3 1 2 3 3 7 8 8 3 3
6 2 7 7 9 6 0 6 1 1 7 5 6 5 7 3 7 4 7 0 8 4 6 0 3 1 5 4 7 2 5 4 8 5 6 2 8 7 6 1 8 7 2 5 5 8 5 3 6 4
8 3 4 4 2 5 1 0 4 5 2 3 5 7 2 9 2 8 5 3 6 4 1 4 8 4 1 9 8 0 1 1 8 1 4 4 2 1 7 7 1 4 8 8 8 6 6 8 9 6
3 3 7 8 5 2 4 7 5 4 6 4 1 1 8 2 1 3 0 8 7 7 8 2 2 3 4 8 7 1 1 3 5 0 2 8 6 4 6 6 7 4 2 8 2 3 4 3 2 4
8 0 1 1 2 0 8 1 4 2 9 2 7 6 2 8 6 2 5 6 9 4 4 2 0 2 0 3 4 3 0 1 9 0 7 1 2 7 6 4 7 6 2 7 3 0 4 5 4 4
1 8 6 1 3 6 8 0 5 0 0 8 7 2 9 0 4 6 9 0 4 6 1 5 3 2 2 1 8 4 6 7 5 8 4 8 1 2 0 7 1 8 3 4 0 1 3 5 8 9

Hey, every other company in the world, take notes!

[GrouchoMarx]

THIS is how a company makes money producing Free Software. Don't, at least not at the beginning. I'm sure RMS would have my head for this, but it's the truth.

Consumer-oriented retail software and GPL code are simply incompatble as a business model. If Id released the source for RtCW today, they wouldn't make a penny on their retail sales. Somone would get the source code, edit one line, stick it on an FTP server, and make it available to the world free (as in beer), and most people would get it from there. There would be no legal reason to stop them, and every financial reason for them to do so. That goes for any consumer-targeted application, game, utility, or whatever. You just can't make money with consumers that way. (Consumers aren't interested in "selling support". If they need you to support it, then it was a bad program to start with in their minds.)

Now here comes Id. They develop excellent code, and sell it and license it commercially like any other company. Then, once they've made their money back with a nice comfortable profit and moved on to bigger and better things, they open source the code. They're not doing anything more with it, so why should they prevent others from enjoying it? It's the original idea behind copyright in the first place! Author(s) get limited monopoly for a limited time so that they can make a living producing content, then it goes to the public domain. (OK, that would be more BSD license than GPL, that's a minor issue.)

For the FSF and its supporters, economics aren't the issue, it's all principle and philosophy and idealism. That's all well and good, I agree with their ideals for the most part. But idealism must be tempered by reality to produce pragmatism sometimes. The Id model is the best way I've seen to make money in the consumer space while still supporting Free Software / Open Source (take your pick).

Unless someone else has a better suggestion on how to make money in the consumer space with FS/OS code (remember, after the cash register the consumer doesn't want to ever have to talk to you), we should all bug companies to follow Id's excellent example. If they balk at the "lost revenue", just show them Carmak's twin Lamborginis. ;-)

Re:3.16 -vs- 3.20 (spammish...)

[XoXus]

Here's some of the changelog entries from 3.19 and 3.20 that would be kinda important to compatibility and general goodness. Hmmm... and even if Zoid worked on Quake after 3.16, wouldn't that be considered work-for-hire, and thus the ownership of the code revert back to id software?

- "Water surfing" that was present in 3.17 has been fixed (holding jump while
on the surface of water let you swim at full speed).
- Environment maps (env) are now autodownloaded (if allow_download_maps is set).
- Spectator support added.
- New server cvar: sv_airaccelerate. This controls the optional air
acceleration facility. [esp. if you want QuakeWorld physics!]
- Fixed the long standing Quake2 bug of where you would occasionally spawn
or teleport and find yourself either looking straight at the ceiling or
down at the floor.
- ... flowing transparent textures now works. [in software renderer]
- Fixed a case where a person joining a server could be invisible
- Linux: Complete rewrite of the OpenGL library handling. [!!]
- Railgun shots now go through gibs as well as other players.

Most of them should be fixable by various people, but some might take a while (like the OpenGL rewriting). Also, I'm guessing that most of those bugs would be relatively obscure and could be tricky to fix (Carmack obviously didn't get it correct the first time, and he _wrote_ the damn thing!).

Re:Hey, every other company in the world, take not

[zhensel]

Well, there's always the option of releasing the source code, but not the game media. Kind of like how you can always download the doom executable for free, but without the WAD files, no luck playing the whole game. This would work with many companies, but unforunately not id - a huge percentage of their income comes via engine liscensing. Of course, by formulating a decent liscense (I doubt the GPL would work for this), they could release the source code and prevent people from profiting off of it. This could conceivably make id a good deal more money as companies and individuals could experiment with using/modifying the code on their own before deciding to create a full product with it and paying id. A problem still pops up with this model though, as mod authors could instead make standalone games, claim them as non-profit, and id would then lose out on the money they get from mods' requirement of having the original game. It's definitely a tricky issue, but it's not impossible to release up-to-date code and still profit greatly from your efforts.

Process Killer

[Amon Re]

I wonder if someone will make a Quake 2 "Process Killer." This works by having the monsters in quake or any other FPS represent processes on the active system. By killing a monster you will kill the appropiate process. I remember trying it when someone hacked Doom and Quake 1 to do it. It was only a pain in the ass when the monsters would kill each other, or you mistakenly killed an important process.

No Mac version included?

[appleprophet]

The zip includes the platform specific files for irix, linux, solaris, unix, windows, and even rhapsody!@ Yet there's not a glimmer of MacOS code, either for X or classic.

I'm guessing this is because ID software didn't port it to Mac, rather Logicware did the classic port and OmniGroup did the OS X port. However, this doesn't explain why the code for so many other OS' is included... Did ID Software actually port Q2 to rhapsody, for example?

Oh well, it would be really nice if Logicware or (more probably) the OmniGroup could donate their mac specific code. Do either of the above two companies actually own their Mac specific source code? Is this why ID Software is hesitant to include it in this package?

Oh well, I have no idea, I'm just thinking out loud.

Re:No Mac version included?

[thehamster]

I thought Rhapsody was MacOS X (or at least part of it). Or is that another codename...

Re:No Mac version included?

[Arnulf]

There is a Rhapsody dir included.

However I can make neither heads nor tails with it. I tried to load it into ProjectBuilder. Doesn't compute. I tried it on my iMac with OSX.1.2 and the December developer package.

I understand that at the time when Q2 was released OSX was still a rumour. Unfortunately I'm not expert enough to do this myself. Hell, I think I would even be able to port this to FreeBSD. Anyway, maybe someone can show the interested how to go on about this.

I'd certainly like to play Q2 on my iMac; I have the complete Q2 series for my PC.

-Arnulf

ggggga

[Anonymous Coward]

* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g g o / \ \ / \ o a \ a t `. : t s` \ s e \ / / \\\ -- \\ : e x \ \/ --~~ ~-- \ x * \ \-~ ~-\ * g \ \ .--------.___\ g o \ \// ((> \ o a \ . C ) ((> / a t /\ C )/ \ (> / t s / /\ C) (> / \ s e ( C__)\___/ // _/ / \ e x \ \\// (/ x * \ \) `---- --' * g \ \ / / g o / \ o a / \ \ a t / / \ t s / / \/\/ s e / e x x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t e x * * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g g o / \ \ / \ o a \ a t `. : t s` \ s e \ / / \\\ -- \\ : e x \ \/ --~~ ~-- \ x * \ \-~ ~-\ * g \ \ .--------.___\ g o \ \// ((> \ o a \ . C ) ((> / a t /\ C )/ \ (> / t s / /\ C) (> / \ s e ( C__)\___/ // _/ / \ e x \ \\// (/ x * \ \) `---- --' * g \ \ / / g o / \ o a / \ \ a t / / \ t s / / \/\/ s e / e x x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t e x * * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g g o / \ \ / \ o a \ a t `. : t s` \ s e \ / / \\\ -- \\ : e x \ \/ --~~ ~-- \ x * \ \-~ ~-\ * g \ \ .--------.___\ g o \ \// ((> \ o a \ . C ) ((> / a t /\ C )/ \ (> / t s / /\ C) (> / \ s e ( C__)\___/ // _/ / \ e x \ \\// (/ x * \ \) `---- --' * g \ \ / / g o / \ o a / \ \ a t / / \ t s / / \/\/ s e / e x x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t e x * * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g g o / \ \ / \ o a \ a t `. : t s` \ s e \ / / \\\ -- \\ : e x \ \/ --~~ ~-- \ x * \ \-~ ~-\ * g \ \ .--------.___\ g o \ \// ((> \ o a \ . C ) ((> / a t /\ C )/ \ (> / t s / /\ C) (> / \ s e ( C__)\___/ // _/ / \ e x \ \\// (/ x * \ \) `---- --' * g \ \ / / g o / \ o a / \ \ a t / / \ t s / / \/\/ s e / e x x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t e x * * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g g o / \ \ / \ o a \ a t `. : t s` \ s e \ / / \\\ -- \\ : e x \ \/ --~~ ~-- \ x * \ \-~ ~-\ * g \ \ .--------.___\ g o \ \// ((> \ o a \ . C ) ((> / a t /\ C )/ \ (> / t s / /\ C) (> / \ s e ( C__)\___/ // _/ / \ e x \ \\// (/ x * \ \) `---- --' * g \ \ / / g o / \ o a / \ \ a t / / \ t s / / \/\/ s e / e x x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t e x *

Makefile fix -- compiling under linux

[XoXus]

Here's a patch to get the source to compile under linux -- Carmack forgot to use cl_newfx.c!

http://members.optushome.com.au/davidsymonds/q2m ak efile.diff

Re:Makefile fix -- compiling under linux

[XoXus]

Oops... I should've mentioned this: After unzipping quake2.zip, go into the linux/ directory, copy Makefile.i386 to Makefile, edit the MOUNT_DIR line (line 15) to point to the quake2 directory that got created, then apply my patch.

Here it is as a nice link

Re:Makefile fix -- compiling under linux

[SEGV]

You can just change MOUNT_DIR=.. (the parent directory).

What an ASSHOLE!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not sure whether to tell you to eat shit and die, or compliment you for a nice troll.

3 Cheers for Carmack!

[Jagasian]

Hip hip HORRAY!!!!

I wish more game developers would adopt his model.

1. Make awesome game.
2. Sell awesome game.
3. Make lots of money in the process.
4. Gamers love game, gamers play game, gamers have fun for many years.
5. Instead of letting a game die ("bit rot", ala Darklands and many other great games), release game as open source to the community (this is true public service people).
6. Coders learn from one of the greatest.
7. Community grows.
8. Repeat ad infinitum.

Sure the hardcore open source fanatics will give a thumbs down to the fact that Carmack wants to make money, but then again, they are fanatics.

I also love how Carmack does it during Christmas... kind of puts a tear in your eye :-) Oh, and I also heard that Carmack does more traditional charity works like buying toys for poor kids during Christmas.

Well, I have bought every game that Carmack has made since Wolf3D... and I am going to buy the new Doom game too. Its important to support the greats.

Re:3 Cheers for Carmack!

[rabidcow]

Keep in mind that many game developers simply license the engine and modify it, so they *can't* do this. Now if the people who wrote the engine open-sourced that first, then they could, but that's harder since the engine will make money long after the game has stopped.

Re:3 Cheers for Carmack!

[MrHat]

I'd be plenty happy if more game developers would just obey numbers one and two. *cough* Romero *cough*

Great...

[Anonymous Coward]

I just finished reverse engineering the q2 protocol, just to see if I could do it.
I thought it was "hip".
I thought it was "cool".
And then.. then.. THIS happens.
All the debugging tools,
all the stream captures,
all the pattern analysis.
Useless. Now, despite all the work,
I might as well have just downloaded the stupid
thing. Sigh.
I'm a bitter bitter man now.
Sigh.

Re:Great...

[ewhac]

Dude, what are you complaining about?

Looking at a static piece of source code can tell you only so much about a network protocol. You actually have to watch the thing working before you start to see how things interrelate (especially if the commenting was poor). This is why the TCP/IP Illustrated series of books continue to be best-sellers among the networking crowd, even though they've been able to look at the *BSD IP stack source code for years.

Because you've taken the trouble to do dumps and in-depth analysis of a live connection, you are way ahead of the game. The Q2 networking code will be cake for you to take apart and modify.

No quest for knowledge is ever wasted.

Schwab

free data files?

[SaberTaylor]

are there free data files somewhere?

if so, could someone post a minihowto?

Re:free data files?

[XoXus]

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Quake+2%22+TC

Re:3.16 -vs- 3.20 (spammish...)

[Ndr_Amigo]

Looking at 3.18_changes..

The Water surfing fix is present in the released code, as is the autodownload of environment maps.
Spectator support is in there, as is air_accelerate.

The railgun fix is trivial to implement. The "angle on spawn" bug sounds fairly easy to fix. The flowing transparent textures might be a pain, the software renderer code is still almost as obscure was it was back in Quake1.

The Linux fix seems to only refer to the way it loads the mesa/opengl library - I'm not exactly sure what changed, but again it sounds like a simple fix.

Without knowing what caused the case for players to become invisible, I can't comment on that one. It might also have been a 3.18 fix, so MAY be in the released source.

This IS 3.19, so we may have some of the unknown fixes above already implemented... Duffy may just have forgotten the changes file.

Re:Actually, it's right on time.

[Jagasian]

Nah, I am not surprised. Carmack has always been a bit of a romantic (in a software engineer sort of way). He seems to like releasing his source code during the Christmas season. Not only that, I have heard that Carmack actually physically goes to a toy store and buys lots of toys for poor kids. I am telling you guys, Carmack is a romantic.

Well, I guess if he really wanted to get weird with it, he could release it on Dec 25th... but this way the code can be mirrored so that by the 25th, every boy and girl can have their own copy of the source code.

nope ~ Re:free data files?

[SaberTaylor]

ah nevermind.

readme.txt:

All of the Q2 data files remain copyrighted and licensed under the original terms, so you cannot redistribute data from the original game, but if
you do a true total conversion, you can create a standalone game based on this code.

Re:nope ~ Re:free data files?

[Jagasian]

If you really wanted to be a good person, you could return the favor to Carmack by going out and buying a(nother) copy of Quake2. Its only right to return the favor.

Re:nope ~ Re:free data files?

[SaberTaylor]

No offense, but I didn't enjoy Quake, too dark and dizzy, and therefore feel zero urge to buy it. I have no pirated games if you're implying that. Is it bad to want to play with this Quake2 and free data files?

Re:nope ~ Re:free data files?

[Lumpy]

Ahem and buy Q3 for linux.

if everyone that ran Linux bought Q3, we would have seen Id happily release more for linux instead of calling it a failure.

Re:nope ~ Re:free data files?

[iainl]

For what its worth:

1) you could probably get this working with the free data files in the demo version if you try

2) as you'll discover if you give the demo a quick go, Quake II is far more bright and colourful than the first one was; the engine now includes coloured lighting effects and was written at a time when 3D cards were starting to become popular, so making the game look good on a 256-colour display was not the only concern.

All those other guys

[Jagasian]

All of those other guys copy Carmack, make clones of his games... so why don't all of those other guys open source their games like Carmack does? Really, it would be a good thing for the game industry... let the next generation learn from the last.

Re:All those other guys

[JonathanF]

There wouldn't be too much incentive though, since essentially it would just be a superset of id's technology in many cases. In other cases the engine makers wouldn't be in an as advantageous situation as id - Lithtech licenses are important to both Lithtech and Monolith's survival, even if the license is of an older version.

I don't doubt the usefulness of having an older engine to work with, but game developers tend to be a little more hand-to-mouth. As it stands... if there's only one game developer who open-sources their prior code, id Software might as well be it. Their code is routinely cross-platform and flexible.

I'm greatful.

[digitalunity]

I really am. Why? Look at a lot of older companies like Sierra who have games they'll never make another penny off of. Why not release it into public domain or GPL it? No motive. However, when you look at truly great people like John Carmack who've more than given back to his community, it makes me feel good inside. Like maybe, to him, it's not all about the money.

I wish more companies and programmers had such insight.

Re:I'm greatful.

[Anonymous Coward]

You guys need to learn how to spell grateful.

Re:I'm greatful.

[digitalunity]

Oops. My apologies.

optimization or beauty

[Anonymous Coward]

The goto is often a way to make the compiler
spit out code that only branches when something
odd happens. See kernel/sched.c in the Linux
kernel for many examples of this.

The goto can be more readable when error handling
is needed. See fs/ext2/*.c and other filesystem
code in the Linux kernel for examples of this.

Re:optimization or beauty

[kreyg]

Yes, except in this case, nothing odd is happening, and it's not handling an error, it just skips over a single block of code that could be enclosed in a single "else" block. :-)

Not to show any disrespect to John - I'm a game / rendering programmer myself, and I would by lying if I said I wasn't envious of his skill and drive. I just thought it was funny that the first thing I stumbled across was a classic example of "for the love of God, never do this!"

Some day, some day I will stop reading /. all day and surpass id... :-)

Re:optimization or beauty

[Cryptnotic]

Perhaps there used to be some other code there in a previous version that needed to be skipped over.

By the way, the standard POSIX way of handling an interrupted system call is like this:

again:
status = select(....);
if (errno == EINTR)
goto again;

Sometimes you don't want to screw around with a while loop.

Another example is when searching for something:

while (x) {
for (i=0; iA; i++)
for (j=0; jB; j++)
for (k=0; kC; k++)
if (something[i][j][k] == somethingelse)
goto found_one;

found_one:
}

The other way of doing it that I know is making an "int found=0;", then adding "&& (!found)" to each of those for loops and replacing the "goto" with a "found=1". But that's a pain in the ass. It's too much typing.

Cryptnotic

Re:optimization or beauty

[Cryptnotic]

Doh. My stupid less than signs didn't work.

Oh well, you get the idea.

Cryptnotic

Re:optimization or beauty

[SecretAsianMan]

Oooh, mod parent up! There's a programmer that has no strange religious distaste for the goto statement, one who realizes that it has its uses!

I'd like to add one: error processing.

void func(void)
{
if (func1())
goto err;
/* ... */
if (func2())
goto err;
/* ... */
if (func3())
goto err;
/* ... */
return;
err:
/* error handler */
}

Re:optimization or beauty

[GregWebb]

I have to admit that, early serious training being in Pascal I'm no fan of GOTOs ;-) but my instinct would go for three nested do whiles, each with two stopping conditions. I'll only use a FOR loop if I'm certain I want it to execute that particular number of times, anything else always feels a little icky too me :-)

One thing, though - speed. I remember once getting frustrated with a program's slow performance, so I swapped a critical loop from for .. next to do while out of curiosity. Speed went through the roof.

Now, I can't believe that's globally applicable but it was curious and I'd be interested to know if anyone else had seen that sort of test.

Re:optimization or beauty

[Anonymous Coward]

hate to break this to you, but this is crap code, this is better:

void func(void)
{
if (func1() || func2() ||func3())
{
//error stuff
}
}

Re:optimization or beauty

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, considering that was just a simple example, I'm sure there's cases where you can't really combine them.

Except that's what throw & catch were invented for.

Re:optimization or beauty

[(void*)]

That is assuming that nothing takes places between each call to func1(), func2() and func3(). If you have to execute something between them, then putting it in the boolean test makes things VERY ugly.

Re:optimization or beauty

[red_gnom]

How about this?

void func(void)
{
if (func1())
err();
/* ... */
if (func2())
err();
/* ... */
if (func3())
err();
/* ... */
return;
}

void err(void)
/* error handler */
}
void err(int errorNumber)
/* error handler */
}
etc...

Re:optimization or beauty

[red_gnom]

Ooops, the braces:


...

void err(void)
{
/* error handler | err(0);*/
}

void err(int errorNumber)
{
/* error handler */
}

etc...

Re:optimization or beauty

[SecretAsianMan]

Yeah, that will work.

Re:optimization or beauty

[Cryptnotic]

In C, the following for statement:

for (A; B; C) {
[body];
}

is exactly equivalent to:

A;
while (B) {
[body];
C;
}

I think Pascal does things a little differently, which is why you might have noticed a speed difference.

Cryptnotic

Re:optimization or beauty

[pclminion]

"Screw around with a while loop?" What is so screwy about it? What is so hard to understand about this:

for(;;) {
status = select(...);
if(state != EINTR)
break;
}

Don't bitch about branch optimization. That select() call is trapping into kernel mode. Who cares about a branch in the face of that?

Your second situation makes more sense. I usually never have loops nested that deep, though. The only time I really use goto is for progressive unrolling after error:

mem1 = malloc(10);
if(!mem1) goto fail_mem1;
mem2 = malloc(10);
if(!mem2) goto fail_mem2;
...
fail_mem2:
free(mem1);
fail_mem1:
return -1;

Of course these unrolling sequences can be much longer and more complex. It's really the best you can do in a language that has no exceptions. In C++ you would use exceptions and destructors for this.

Re:optimization or beauty

[GregWebb]

Eww, ugly :-)

I'd been shown that before but thanks for reminding me. And in the mean time, I again register my disgust at a language which mutilates simple constructs like that. Swiss Army Chainsaw, definitely.

Thank you, John...

[cr0sh]

I have been waiting for this for a very, very long time. I purchased Q2 for Windows many moons ago, and it is one of the games I miss under Linux. Guess it is time to compile it now.

BTW - does anybody know whether _everything_ works, like sound, joystick, mouse, etc - or is it just the graphics engine and game code (ie, playable with keyboard and pretty gfx, but no sound or joystick support)? Just curious how well this thing really runs...

Hmm - now I am wondering if I should try basing my future VR system on this code...

Re:Thank you, John...

[mihalis]

Well, you could have bought a linux copy of the game if it was that important to you!

Chris

-completed quake2 under slackware

Re:Thank you, John...

[Jacek Poplawski]

I have been waiting for this for a very, very long time. I purchased Q2 for Windows many moons ago, and it is one of the games I miss under Linux. Guess it is time to compile it now.

Quake2 Linux binaries was distributed for a very long time. How it is possible you didn't noticed that?

I think source code is for hackers who want to make Quake2 better, the only good thing you can do with source code (if you are not programmer) is use -march option to gain some speed.

Re:Thank you, John...

[cr0sh]

Easy response - I am not a gamer, so yeah - I didn't notice it.

I like to play Q2 - but I am not a frag-fest maniac like some friends of mine. I enjoy most FPS games for the scenery, the engine - more than the game itself. Most of these games are simply "shoot anything that moves", for the most part.

I have always wanted to know what could be done with the engines themselves - and this engine was no exception...

Re:Thank you, John...

[cr0sh]

It wasn't that important to me - plus, I already had the data files - why pay again? I suppose you could argue "to show the want for the Linux version" but had I (and everyone else, let's say) bought the Linux version - how would that have helped it being GPL'd (ignoring the fact that JC was inevitably going to do this anyhow)?

JC has shown a way to make money, and still open source your product after it has enjoyed a long success. I hope others follow in his footsteps.

Re:Thank you, John...

[cr0sh]

Oh, re: the joystick, sound, etc...

While I haven't gotten around to compiling it yet, I did download the source, and saw that there was code for the Linux version for sound and joystick support, among other things. I guess I answered that question myself...

Hidden in the code...

[DarkHelmet]

And I'm sure somewhere in the code is hidden:

3d realms and epic megagames are weenies

:)

Not really.

[digitalunity]

To sweepingly state that you are greater than your teacher in any class is nearly always a mistake. However, to state that all things must be learned in school is equally as much a fallacy. I don't write graphics engines, but my coding skills are far improved from when I began. To date, my only CS class has been AP Hypercard(oxymoron?) in highschool.

I've learned to program somewhat proficiently in C/C++/ASP/PHP3&4(a little) and Perl all without taking a single class. It isn't to say that classes don't have their place; only that they aren't required(but helpful).

fast mirror

[siliconincdotnet]

http://www.siliconinc.net/quake2.zip.

Enjoy, and happy fragging.

quake2.conf?

[mnordstr]

When I try to start the compiled binary in it's directory, I get the following error:

[root@matta debugi386]# ./quake2
couldn't exec default.cfg
couldn't exec config.cfg
Console initialized.

- sound initialization -
sound sampling rate: 11025

- Loading ref_softx.so -
LoadLibrary("ref_softx.so") failed: can't open /etc/quake2.conf (required for location of ref libraries)
Refresh failed
recursive shutdown
Error: Couldn't fall back to software refresh!

Any Ideas?

Re:quake2.conf?

[XoXus]

Yeah, here's a hint:

LoadLibrary("ref_softx.so") failed: can't open /etc/quake2.conf (required for location of ref libraries)

It can't find /etc/quake2.conf, which tells it where to find the renderer modules. Stick a single line in that file (a path to the *.so files), and make it world readable.

Re:quake2.conf?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're running quake as root?

You will never, ever touch any of my servers.

Logo

[javilon]

I miss the old quake3 logo. I don't like the console like controler in the new logo because quake was originally a pc game and most people around here use pcs for gaming!

Provolone? Or Cheddar?

[Anonymous Coward]

My penis smells of cheese. I wonder why. I don't remember rubbing any cheese down there.

What do you enjoy more?

[Anonymous Coward]

Man fæces? Or monkey fæces?

Re:What do you enjoy more?

[Genghis Troll]

If it's shit, I'm eatin'!

Re:What do you enjoy more?

[Anonymous Coward]

I applaud your coprophagy.

Information wants to be free!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is great news! Now I can download all those games based on the Quake 2 engine for free! Open Source rules!

hot or not

[Anonymous Coward]

girls:
http://www.ratemypicture.com/profiles/64913.shtm l
http://www.ratemypicture.com/profiles/64826.shtm l
http://www.ratemypicture.com/profiles/46433.shtm l
http://www.ratemypicture.com/profiles/78973.shtm l

guys:
http://www.ratemypicture.com/profiles/38652.shtm l
http://www.ratemypicture.com/profiles/66256.shtm l

Otherwise known as the ghostscript model.

[Anonymous Coward]

GhostScript does this. They are then allowed to learn from past code how to do the future better.

As to bugging other companies to OSS their past code base, I am not sure that is a good idea. One of the problems with the M$ proprietary world is that the software companies are fairly static. By that, I am saying that there is an established order to the software there and they are not really creating new and interesting software. M$ is the only one that is truley benefiting. They come in and steal any product idea that is of interest to them.

By keeping quite, the OSS world is currently developing new and interesting products, which will form the foundation of a number of new companies. They will then be able to compete against against the establishment. This same tatic is what allowed the M$ world, with new ideas, to compete against the old established Mainframe world.

John's stuff is of interest becuase of who he is and what a decent job he does. He will basically teach others with his code. Very little came from Doom engine in terms of games, other than pointing back to john what was wrong with it and teaching a new generation.

Now it CAN be Built!

[Zzootnik]

Woo-Hoo! Thanks a bunch, Mr Carmack!

Now I can build that 3d computer/internet browser in the style I thought it should have to actually get used!

I wish I could say I'm as savvy as you at coding, but I'm afraid I'm only a fledgling code monkey...but with plenty of enthusiasm! So Thanks for the leg up, and hopefully I learn some useful things along the way...

They Skipped a Whole Generation of Games...

[BigJimSlade]

Dear Lord, how will I be able to startup ComanderKeenForge.net without the source code to Comander Keen!?!?!?!?! It's just not fair to leave us hangin' like this!!! :)

Re:They Skipped a Whole Generation of Games...

[Anonymous Coward]

I actually emailed carmack and romero asking about the keen source. No replies..

Then i talked to mynx, a prominent quake gal, she

said that carmack lost it, romero has it, but something or other prevented the release blah blah.

Oh well :P

:wq

Settling this.

[Anonymous Coward]

Has anyone READ the id Technology Licensing Program?
http://www.idsoftware.com/corporate/idtech/index .h tml

How long until....

[gr8fulnded]

.... someone sets it up to add Bin Laden's face on every enemy in the game?

--Dave

Re:How long until....

[gakguk]

You don't need source code to alter that kinda things in any Quake game. Just make your own PAK file (for Q2, its a .pk2 AFAIK)

Re:How long until....

[Anonymous Coward]

its .pak in quake2... pak0.pak - pak9.pak... reminds me need to fix that limitation in the engine, quake3 lets you load any filename .pk3 hehe

How widely applicable is this release model?

[gonerill]

First, like every other sensible person here I think it's terrific that Carmack and ID have this strategy for releasing older code under the GPL. I've noticed that a lot of comments have argued that this is a strategy that many or all software firms should adopt with the GPL --- develop commercially and profit in the short run, release source to community when development cycle has moved two products down the road.

I wonder, though, whether ID find it much easier to pursue this strategy because they're in the game market? Games (and *especially* FPS/Multiplayer games) are a market segment where most buyers want the newest engine, best graphics, etc. Could a company that made Wordprocessors or Spreadsheets pursue this model as easily and still make profit like ID? I'm not saying it would be impossible, but it seems to me that many users would have a much higher tolerance for using a free, three-year-old version of their wordprocessor than using a pricely new version (assuming the company didn't do nasty things like change the .doc format, etc). This isn't true of games. So while I like this "Develop-Sell-Wait-GPL" approach, I'd bet that the "Wait" time of a company like ID is amongst the shortest of any software market segment.

To those who sneer.

[Ozeh]

Ever heard of Half-Life? (If not, have you been living in some sort of box?) Well, ISTR it was based on a modded Q2 engine. johnc, if I was a woman, I would want your babies. Well done Id. You just keep us coming back for more.

Re:To those who sneer.

[Anonymous Coward]

no, actually, halflife is based upon an heavily modded q1 engine. they added parts of q2, however.

Actually you are wrong

[Snaller]

If Id released the source for RtCW today, they wouldn't make a penny on their retail sales. Somone would get the source code, edit one line, stick it on an FTP server, and make it available to the world free (as in beer), and most people would get it from there. There would be no legal reason to stop them, and every financial reason for them to do so.

No you are wrong. Of the people who buy RtCW, how many would be able to compile it? 0.001% probably. And its only the source that is released, none of the graphics,sound, models etc. So even if someone compiled the source, people would only get the game engine legally, if someone game them the graphics files that would be illegal and the cops could kick their butts.

Re:Actually you are wrong

[simm_s]

True but Id also makes money from licensing the use of their 3D engine. If you GPL it right away, there would be no incentive for other companies to pay for the use of the engine. (remember id also wants to make money)

This may not be the best for the opensource world but it is a sound business practice. This time release formula is a good practice other software companies should follow.

Re:Actually you are wrong

[AbsoluteRelativity]

Its also to control the competition. You want to make sure no one makes a game like yours, using your own game engine. If you notice there is no fixed licensing fees, or at least up front id and epic dont say how much a license will be or whether you are eligible for a license, they want flexibility and to control this decision. I find most game companies that license their engine, have this same attitude about it.

Re:Actually you are wrong

[Art Tatum]

No you are wrong. Of the people who buy RtCW, how many would be able to compile it?

Precompiled binaries.

And its only the source that is released, none of the graphics,sound, models etc.

But they *would* end up being distributed. They would be on thousands of gnutella hosts within hours. And it would be unstoppable. The only thing iD has going for it to render unauthorized copying useless is the master server authentication.

Inside the ID offices:

[doublem]

"Hey, we're not making much off the Quake II engine anymore now that we've shifted everything to Quake III. Should we mothball it, maybe even lose the source so no one could even compile it anymore, just like every other game company does with their code?"

"Hell No! That doesn't match my master plan!"

"Master plan?"

"You must be new here. I want all programmers to either learn from my masterful code, or bow before me acknowledging my skill."

"How you gonna do that?"

"Same way Linus did. GPL it! My code shall never die! I will forever be known as the father of thousands of computer games. My code shall outlive the very civilization in which we live. Through my GPLed code, I shall achieve immortality! Mwhahahahahaha."

"Yeah. OK. I'll put together a tarball and drop it on the FTP server."

To himself: "Besides, if I give my brother and sister coders enough samples of my work, sooner or later they'll design the tools necessary fro me to move off of Windows once and for all, and do all my coding under Linux. They'll have to, just so they can continue to hack and improve my own work. Soon, very soon I'll be able to launch Afterstep and compile to Win32 with the click of a button."

(Dramatic Pause)

"And then I'll never have to use Windows again! Mwhahahahahahahahahaha!"

Yes!

[Anonymous Coward]

I always love John's presents he gives out! Can't wait for the Q3 source!

How to run fullscreen under Linux (nVidia)?

[oznet]

I remember this from way back when I was playing Q2 under Linux. How do you get it to run fullscreen with the nVidia GLX stuff?

I set fullscreen to 1 and all the other junk. I went out searching but can't find anything other than Mesa fullscreen info.

Nothing seems to make it go fullscreen.

Any ideas?

Re:How to run fullscreen under Linux (nVidia)?

[Anonymous Coward]

quake 2 didn't have DGA support. a third party package named q2hack did that. give it a few days, someone will write the code :)

Now I have the source

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, you've been /.'d :->

Many thanks, tho :)

-JKS, Linuxer

QUAKE 1 STILL ROCKS!

[Tei]

Test here: qbism.telefragge.com/tei

Q1 still is a GOOD piece of software. Q2 will ad "goodies" to Q1 source code .. not very much because the active q1 scene has added yet very much ;))))

Very Thanx JC!

1 saludo
Tei

Re:Hey, every other company in the world, take not

[ChaosDiscord]

If Id released the source for RtCW today, they wouldn't make a penny on their retail sales. Somone would get the source code, edit one line, stick it on an FTP server, and make it available to the world free (as in beer), and most people would get it from there. There would be no legal reason to stop them...

Of course, RtCW is pretty worthless without levels to play through. The engine without levels is of no value to your average gamer. Just because you open source your engine doesn't mean you need to open source your levels, models, textures, sounds, and other data.

There are risks of making your engine open source (As you point out, Id makes money selling its engine to other developers, open sourcing their current engine would kill this model. Also, competing companies could take the engine, saving software development time and focus on developing levels, effectively allowing your competition to leach your work.). But the threat that no one would buy your game isn't there. I buy a game for well crafted, fun levels. The engine is just the foundation that those levels are built on.

I definately agree I'd love to see out of date source made available. I have a number of games I own that I can't play because they're too old (MS-DOS based). I'm perfectly willing to take a stab at updating them, but it's practically impossible to do without the source. There is a risk that this would hurt sales (as I spent time playing old games instead of new games), but I suspect the drop is sales would be minimal (I like shiny new games too much to just stop buying them).

Their not releasing the whole game for free...

[Anonymous Coward]

Just the source to the engine. They can still sell the data files. You cant really do that outside of the gaming market, because the content is really what people are paying for, not just the engine.

Thanks

[John Carmack]

Thanks for the kind comments, it helps me brace a bit for some of the really vile hate mail that is already starting to come in from the people worried about cheating.

Bill Heineman is preparing the mac source code for Q2 for a release.

We will see about getting the 3.21 changes we missed into an updated release.

I am also happy to say that another old game's code will be released under the GPL soon. We can always hope that it becomes a trend...

John Carmack

Re:Thanks

[dadragon]

I am also happy to say that another old game's code will be released under the GPL soon.

Please tell me it's Commander Keen... :)

Re:Thanks

[RebelA]

Please tell me it's Commander Keen... :)
I was thinking exactly the same thing.

Re:Thanks

[raduffy]

3.21 Will be out soon, Timothee located it and repacked the zip. Should be up soon.

robert...

Re:Thanks

[i_am_nitrogen]

Me too! Commander keen was one of the finest games I ever played. It was truly an artistic accomplishment to have a game like that run on a 4.77MHz 8088 with decent speed.

I would really like to see half-life released under the GPL one day, but that's not likely.

Re:Thanks

[danberm]

As a programmer who's spent many, Many, MANY hours going through the quake codebase, I just want you to know that I really appreciate your openness and admire your ability. My programming skills have gone to the next level as a result of the Quake source. Can't wait to see Doom3 (I'm putting off my new computer purchase till then). Thanks Again Dan

Re:Thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

If a Q3A mod like Generations or Urban Terror uses the Q2 physics code, does that mean the entire Q3A mod has to become opensourced under the Q2 source GPL?

Does this basically mean that no Q3A mod can use the Q2 source, really, and still remain closed-source? Mind you it would only be using a subset of Q2, not using Q2 as a base to make an entire new product or total conversion.

Has there been any decision on this type of stuff? Or prior cases that potential users of the Q2 source under GPL can refer to?

Re:Thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

I am also happy to say that another old game's code will be released under the GPL soon. Please be Half-Life. I have waited years to play this on my Mac.

Re:Thanks

[oznet]

If a Q3A mod like Generations or Urban Terror uses the Q2 physics code, does that mean the entire Q3A mod has to become opensourced under the Q2 source GPL?

Yes, the GPL virus works like that.

Re:Thanks

[1g$man]

Not likely. Any bets on Daikatana? ; )

Re:Thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

right, so we can all see how sloppy their code is, with huge /* */ comments around the quakeworld stuff.

Re:Thanks

[Art Tatum]

Ditto. Q2 is cool and all but CK, written for really low end hardware, has to be a tour de force of ingenious coding. Oh, and BTW RtCW rocks, John. ;-) I like the teamwork aspect of the multiplayer a lot and think that taking the FPS genre in a more intellectual direction in the future is a great angle--maybe even integration of Adventure/Role-playing and FPS or adding combat flight-sim/tank-sim components? Could be cool....

Re:Thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

Good job JC, let's update this mod with the final fixens.

Re:Thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

The "old game" most likely correlates with 3DRealms announcment of a "gift" on the 1st.

Re:Thanks

[Simon Garlick]

Note - JC did not say another ID GAME would be code-released. He just said "another old game".

Re:Thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

Teamplay is an old innovation. Try playing Teamfortress for Quake 1. ID as usual is far behind in the gameplay department.

Re:Thanks

[Art Tatum]

Teamplay is an old innovation. Try playing Teamfortress for Quake 1. ID as usual is far behind in the gameplay department.

Yes, I know. That's what I was trying to say. ID has such nice design ideals that it's nice to see them do some of it (although, they DID pass it off to Nerve but...it has their name on it!)

Re:Thanks

[Remco Komduur]

I wanted to thank you for releasing sources from your games. The Quake 2 port for the Amiga is underway. It will give the Amiga a great boost again. I have a dual processor Amiga at the moment. A 68040 for the OS and PowerPC 603e 175 MHz for the raw power stuff. Man, is Quake 2 gona rule when OS 4 comes out in the next couple of months with brand new G3/G4 motherboards. Then we're finally PowerPC only. Thanks again!!

Re:Thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

Will be it Warcraft 2? :)

Re:Thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

If a Q3A mod like Generations or Urban Terror uses the Q2 physics code, does that mean the entire Q3A mod has to become opensourced under the Q2 source GPL?

Yes, the GPL virus works like that.

Yea! OK! Microsoft just called. They said if you use any of their code you can go ahead and change the copyright!

I mean, it's not like it's a law or anything. Go Ahead....They wont mind!

What does this exactly mean, help me here

[Uncle Gropey]

So since it is GPL'd, does that mean that anyone can put it on a cdrom and sell it ala Linux distros? Or is it only to be used if it remains free?

Re:What does this exactly mean, help me here

[Anonymous Coward]

asdf ;lkj vcxv poic qerua ak dkdnmpoigv.

dkjiim a;pdikl kdl md lthea dkd.

Re:What does this exactly mean, help me here

[SuiteSisterMary]

It's GPLed, so do what you like with the source, so long as you distribute the source and any changes you make yourself. What you CAN'T distribute is art, models, music, or anything that actually makes 'quake 2 the GAME' as opposed to 'the quake 2 ENGINE.'

Re:What does this exactly mean, help me here

[mdw2]

What you could do though, is simply hire a skilled artist to do character design and level design, and put together a nice q2 quality game, as it wouldn't be a ripoff of q2, but an actual game running on the q2 engine.

Re:What does this exactly mean, help me here

[Anonymous Coward]

you don't *have* to distribute changes that you make yourself. that's one of the reasons that some open source licenses aren't free software licenses, they require changes to be released.

Re: Open-sourcing FF6 engine

[jswitte]

I've never played FF6, but this idea does sound hellishly cool. Although I wonder how clean the code to the engine is? Anybody have connections at Square?

Sweet Potential

[Epoch of Entropy]

I think the release of the source code has some very strong potential for the game development community. Because it's so hard to learn 3D game programming, especially creating an engine from scratch, even giving the community a 3 year old base to work from is still better than having to hack it yourself

Someone will probably write a script to export from gmax if they haven't yet, giving even more potential to the GPL game development community. Hell, if anything it can't hurt, only make GPL and the basement game hacker community stronger.

:: Epoch of Entropy

First Port!

[Aardappel]

http://wouter.fov120.com/panq2.jpg
;)

Re:Hey, every other company in the world, take not

[swv3752]

Not really. The risk is that some company would rip them off by developing some game that used the engine and failing to GPL it. If they do GPL the game (and they would have to GPL the whole game, go read the GPL if you doubt this), very few people would buy this GPL game. A few Linux pwoplw who want to support OSS would, and a few Windows guys, and the rest would end up downloading the free version. Doubtful someone would want to go that route.

The real problem is if someone ignored the GPL and just produced the game. Id would have to prove that they were using thier engine and successfully litigate them. Not easy.

Giving away code != giving away data

[yerricde]

Then Valve would have had to give away half-life

No. Valve would have had to give away the changes to the Half-Life engine under copyleft, but the GNU General Public License says nothing about the data that the program uses. Data encompasses everything from sounds to textures to models to behaviors, the very things that make Half-Life different from Quake.

Only if Nintendo's shareholders ditch the CEO

[yerricde]

Of course, right now [Final Fantasy publisher Squaresoft] wouldn't [release the source code the Super NES FF6 engine]

The engine is written in assembly language, not C, because C doesn't work well on the Super NES. The Super NES has two 6502-family CPUs, 65C816 and SPC700. The 6502, with its three semi-general-purpose registers (heck, the 8086 had seven), gives compilers great difficulty in generating object code that performs the expected operations (i.e. intense graphics) in real-time (i.e. less than 50ms latency).

as the GBA would most probably run the FF6 engine just fine

The GBA uses a single ARM7TDMI processor, not any of that 6502 garbage; it runs Thumb instructions, not 65C816 or SPC700 instructions.

and they probably have plans to make a couple games for it...

How will they get their plans past Nintendo's hard-@$$ of a CEO? Nintendo's CEO refuses to bring Square on as a GBA software publisher because he hates Square for how Square ditched Nintendo in the FF7 days. Square can only hope that Nintendo's shareholders will recognize that the lack of Square software creates a missed opportunity for building shareholder value and oust the CEO.

Re:Only if Nintendo's shareholders ditch the CEO

[Anonymous Coward]

Square can only hope that Nintendo's shareholders will recognize that the lack of Square software creates a missed opportunity for building shareholder value and oust the CEO.

Well, considering that Square is now a subsidiary of Sony (in that Sony owns enough of it to wield effective control), why would Nintendo shareholders want that? Sony would be very happy if Nintendo went down the same road as Sega, and would use Square to do this... (I.e. build up the Final Fantasy brands on the GBA and then make sequels exclusive to the SonyBoy Advance or whatever Sony calls it's handheld.)

Besides, Nintendo is doing just fine without Square, and it owes its success to it's hard ass CEO. Do you think Sony's CEO is a creampuff?

Another Mirror

[KalvinB]

http://therabbithole.redback.inficad.com/tricks/So urceCode/quake2-src.zip

For those of who don't want to download the whole thing you can browse the unzipped contents at

http://therabbithole.redback.inficad.com/tricks/ So urceCode/quake2srcb/

Ben

Assembly files don't compile

[benlanka]

I've tried to re-build all projects, went good until the software renderer.

All the .asm files can't be build. It says: 'command or filename incorrect'.

I think it has something to do with a special assembly compiler ID used to create this dll.

Any suggestions?

Re:Assembly files don't compile

[Anonymous Coward]

Grab the VC6 Processor Pack from Microsoft.

Compiling under Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

i tried to compile quake2 by doing the things posted earlier.

get this error:

hcat@nova:~/quake2/linux > make
make targets BUILDDIR=debugi386 CFLAGS="-Dstricmp=strcasecmp -g"
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/hcat/quake2/linux'
gcc -Dstricmp=strcasecmp -g -o debugi386/client/cl_cin.o -c ../client/cl_cin.c
In file included from ../client/../qcommon/qcommon.h:23,
from ../client/ref.h:21,
from ../client/client.h:30,
from ../client/cl_cin.c:20:
../client/../qcommon/../game/q_shared.h:190: parse error before `->'
../client/../qcommon/../game/q_shared.h:190: stray '\' in program
../client/../qcommon/../game/q_shared.h:191: stray '\' in program
../client/../qcommon/../game/q_shared.h:192: stray '\' in program
../client/../qcommon/../game/q_shared.h:193: stray '\' in program
../client/../qcommon/../game/q_shared.h:194: stray '\' in program
../client/../qcommon/../game/q_shared.h:195: stray '\' in program
../client/../qcommon/../game/q_shared.h:196: stray '\' in program
../client/../qcommon/../game/q_shared.h:197: stray '\' in program
../client/../qcommon/../game/q_shared.h:198: stray '\' in program
../client/../qcommon/../game/q_shared.h:199: stray '\' in program
../client/../qcommon/../game/q_shared.h:200: stray '\' in program
../client/../qcommon/../game/q_shared.h:201: stray '\' in program
../client/../qcommon/../game/q_shared.h:202: stray '\' in program
make[1]: *** [debugi386/client/cl_cin.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/hcat/quake2/linux'
make: *** [build_debug] Error 2

what am i doing wrong? i'm using gcc 2.95.3 / glibc 2.2.3 btw.

MM

Re:Compiling under Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

here again the steps i did:

- download quake2.zip to /home/hcat
- cd /home/hcat
- unzip quake2.zip
- cd quake2/linux
- mv Makefile.i386 Makefile
- vi Makefile
=> edit line 15: MOUNT_DIR=..
- download q2makefile.diff to /home/hcat/quake2/linux
- patch Makefile q2makefile.diff

Why Doesn't Carmack Write a Game Programming Book?

[Anonymous Coward]

What better way to learn from the master than having all of his knowledge and know-how put into a book? There's too many amaeteur game programmers with books out, the greatest game programmer on Earth should put one out so we can all learn from the best!!! If you are reading this John, DO IT!!! It would be the best seller EVER!

Nice but..

[ZaneMcAuley]

Where is the DOCUMENTATION?

a link to Process Killer - but for DOOM

[proto]

I haven't seen a process killer using quake. AFAIK, I know only one using DOOM. If you know of one using Quake please post the link here!!! The DOOM version is located at: http://www.cs.unm.edu/~dlchao/flake/doom/

Re:Hey, every other company in the world, take not

[AbsoluteRelativity]

> The risk is that some company would rip them off by developing some game that used the engine and failing to GPL it.

Ooooo, But that would be illegal. When was the last time you saw someone release linux with out releasing the source code or referencing it from some where else? Rarely and the problem is usually corrected immediately. VirtualDub is the only other case I have heard about someone releasing GPL code with out the source code, but even that was settled easily.

> If they do GPL the game (and they would have to GPL the whole game, go read the GPL if you doubt this), very few people would buy this GPL game.

"GPL the game", or GPL the game engine? When you say "game" you are defining it way to broadly. You dont seem to understand the GPL, or at least you seem to be transfixed on the FUD that GPL is a virus. GPL can link to proprietary modules/media, but propreitary modules/media can not link to it or use pieces of it with out it becoming GPL as well (if you use GPL code, you must GPL, if your GPL code uses other code it doesnt). The game engine is the one that loads and uses the game media. Also, note that YOU ARE THE LICENSER NOT THE LICENSEE, you can add and make exceptions with in license, that is how trolltech resolved several problems. There was some license incompatibilities with the GPL, so trolltech solved the problem by making exceptions. Also note that even john carmack says, that while the Quake2 source is GPL, the content is not. If you think John Carmack is wrong, start web site and distribute the content and lets see if your right.

Another thing to think about, is that even if they GPL the whole game (including the media), that would mean any body can *sell* that game to any one else, rather then just giving it away for free. If they were popular enough, distributors may pay a lot of money to be the first to distribute the game (imagine making millions selling a few copies of a game in which the people who bought those copies can also make millions, eventually the price of the price of the game goes down until normal people are buying it and giving it away for free). Anyone can make money selling a game, there is less reason for people to give it away for free (less legal issues holding them back). This doesnt work for linux currently, because its not on par yet with its competitors like Windows for the mass market, versus the niche markets, not that linux is not doing well.

> The real problem is if someone ignored the GPL and just produced the game. Id would have to prove that they were using thier engine and successfully litigate them. Not easy.

Its easy to prove. Even the VirtualDub author was able to find it, when they were not using the whole thing, only certain parts in its filtering. Also how far would someone want to go is another issue, if someone copies a small 5 line for loop from your code, is that something you really want to persue? But in such a case you would expect those 5 lines would either be coincidental or even if they were not, they would be a little tuffer to detect. Besides you dont want to sue someone for copying code that is commonly available either, only code that is unique to your design, that is the importance of intellectual property after all. You dont want to copyright, patent, or trademark something that is common and in most cases you can not do that (your intellectual property would be forfeited in a court of law).

finally

[Suppafly]

Now someone can finally make a version of the sims that allows you to kill your neighbors easily and quickly and that has netplay

Why doesn't Carmack Write a Game Programming Book?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think this would be an incredible idea! What better way to learn than to learn from the very best out there? There are so many who are hoping to become the "next" John Carmack out there who might be having tough time. Seeing and learning from the very best game programmer on the planet in text form and gaining all of his know-how and knowledge would be KILLER!! I know I WOULD DEFINITELY BUY IT! John, if you are reading this, won't you PLEASE consider doing this? Too many amaetur game programming books are out there, we NEED one from a pro like you!

Sony needs to make a PSOne Discman

[yerricde]

then make sequels exclusive to the SonyBoy Advance

There is no mass-produced handheld PlayStation product (this doesn't count), and Sony has not officially released plans to make one. Sony needs to get off its collective @$$ and produce a PSOne Discman. I'm pretty sure that a PSOne Discman would keep the PSOne platform alive, and it may be Sony's ace in the hole to compete with Nintendo's GBA. (I've read that GBA is twice as powerful as Super NES but half as powerful as PSOne.)

[Sony] owes its success to it's hard ass CEO. Do you think Sony's CEO is a creampuff?

"Creampuff" and "hard-ass" are not always mutually exclusive. See also Kirby.

Thanks by a enginehacker.

[Tei]

JC:

Thanks for the SRC man!.

I am hacking the q1src with bits of the q2src. I amazing to see how similar q2src is to q1src ;) I am newbie engine coding. I like you way to code very much ;)
The scene love you man!

how client-server balance horsepower will end?
will horsepower move to client?
:)

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Muy interesante su trabajo. De verdad que uno hablando con usted se siente mas cerca de "dios" ;) Se lo digo en serio. Gracias de verdad por liberar el codigo.. pufff... es muy bueno y nos va a ayudar a la scene de programacion de mods, y creacion de customs engines. Sobretodo portar abilidades del Q2 al Q1, que es lo mas interesante ahora mismo. No todo el mundo tiene un compilador, pero si podian tener un qccwin32.. asi que la energia minima para modear con q1 es muy baja,.. en cambio no veo tantas ventajas con las dlls... al menos para los "principiantes". De todos modos.. sobre todo gracias!.. Y suerte con sus proximos trabajos. Good Luck!

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1 saludo
Tei

artificial life game with the quake engine..

[Tei]

I am modding a ALife game for the Quake engine. This educative game will include:
- sex*
- bugs killing other bugs
- bugs eating is childers
- dna, radiactiviy and cancer
- mutants
- a rocket launcher

( 2 )

Suggestions here:
421621@ingta.unizar.es (stop biologist! only coders and gamers!!)

ArtFinal vs SRC

[Tei]

ARTWORK vs CODE: - artwork can be reused and "old game coded" not. - artwork, like player.mdl file can be used by hollywood.. licensing the "Quake Dude" as a character... for a theorical film "Quake The Film" or "Mr.Quake vs LaraCroft" ;PP ...."pr_exec.c" not. - artwork dont help map makers.. ITS FINAL ART; NOT SOURCE: - artist DONT share IS WORK!, coder do!. I am artist and coder and i knom very good the coders and the designers.. Not the same game,... ARTFINAL / SRC: .fla / .swf .jpg / .ph9 .psd .mdl / .3ds .bsp / .map etc... 1 saludo Tei

LFire & Linux Quake2 servers

[Vitharr]

I hope someone can help me. If I compile the source under Linux and then try to run a LFire Quake2 server, it crashes immediately, saying: droptofloor: ammo_cells startsolid at (800 136 816) I have done some research and this is what I found out up untill now: - It happens with both LFire 1.20 & LFire 2.0 and both the 3.19 & 3.21 source - It only happens under Linux; in Windows everything goes fine - The original 3.19 version of iDsoftware runs great with both LFire's - When I compile the 3.19 source under Linux and compare the size with iD's 3.19, then it is a little bit bigger (about 20 Kbyte, after I used the "strip" command) - I tried something like 4 different distributions of the 3.21 source and it still crashes If someone knows what is going on or is willing to spend a bit of time on this problem, it would be greatly appreciated. I have compiled a mini version of the server, containing one map, the original Quake2 v3.20 executable and the LFire 1.20 gamei386.so. It is 400KB and can be downloaded here: http://www.xs4all.nl/~vithar/download/q2_lfire_tes tserver.tgz Again: any help would be greatly appreciated!