Mozilla Branches For 1.0 RC1

At the end of last month, the Mozilla Project closed the tree for what will become Mozilla 1.0. Now jkeiser writes "Mozilla has branched for 1.0 RC1, which is the first last step to a final Mozilla 1.0! Mozilla has spent four long years getting the browser standards-compliant, fast and solid. Cross your fingers for a rockin' final release around the corner." Reader whovian points to the just-modified roadmap, too.

Comments

props to...

[Carp Flounderson]

props to all the kind folks who supply the Berkeley Cannabis Club.

Re:props to...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you live in Berkeley, you shouldn't need a Club to get Cannabis...

Re:props to...

[YourMissionForToday]

Congradulations on your FP, Carp. Please enjoy my TROLLAXOR.COM diary!

YourMissionForToday: Quicktime probably won't help you find love

YourMissionForToday: I suggest becoming Spider-Man

coed.jpg: But I'm batman

YourMissionForToday: It might be time to transition your servers to Spider-Man. Netcraft's latest survey says that *Batman accounts for less than 1% of allservers on the internet

coed.jpg: Batman was fighting hax0rz when spiderman was shittin yellow

YourMissionForToday: Yes, but Spider-Man is infinitely more scalable, offers volume discounts for licensing and has new Sticky-Web(TM) software

YourMissionForToday: http://store.sun.com/catalog/doc/BrowsePage.jhtml; $sessionid$LPKWARRPH0GHLAMTA1ESTGT5AAAACJ1K?cid=80 487 refer to this page for more info

coed.jpg: spider-man is a hacked-together superhero. just some guy with a freak mutation. batman was built from the ground up by dedicated professionals and strong financial backing to be a quality superhero

YourMissionForToday: I won't deny that Batman was very much ahead of his time, and if this was 1996, I'd probably be recommending him. But this is 2002, Spider-Man's working better than ever, and capturing market share from tons of low and medium end businesses everywhere

coed.jpg: well first of all, market share is no indicator of a superhero's quality. just because there are millions of petty crimes for spider man to make right doesn't mean he's a better superhero. meanwhile, batman has better resources tailored specifically for doing his job well. he's the real superhero for mission-critical applications

YourMissionForToday: You can't deny Spider-Man's continued profitibility year after year. He squashed Dr. Octopus and was hailed as the savior of Wall Street. Meanwhile, Batman is hacking around in his garage, trying to tweak his Batmobile hour after hour. Is that really the superhero you want to send to your clients?

YourMissionForToday: http://www.sun.com/desktop/products/graphics/sunvi deoplus.html

coed.jpg: are we trying to save Wall Street or the people of Gotham City? I dunno about you, but when i'm at the hands of a villain i don't want to put my life in the hands of some teenager who happens to know something about fighting crime. i want a trained professional who makes it his job to offer stable and robust crime-fighting powers.

coed.jpg: and it's not like batman's license is as restrictive as people make it seem. in fact, spider-man's license is probably even more restrictive. he wants you to call him no matter what the crime. batman's license may not require the revelation of bruce wayne's identity, but i'm still free to make use of batman's products to meet all my needs. and personally, i don't care if bruce wayne keeps himself a secret, as long as he's the best fighter of crime

YourMissionForToday: The truth is, Batman just isn't very scalable. He's great for low-end crimefighting such as your Joker or Riddler, but if he were to take on guys like the Shocker or Venom, you could expect hours of configuration headaches as he picks out the correct tool from his Bat-arsenal. With Spider-Man, all the tools you need are already pre-loaded

coed.jpg: i think you're confusing "scalable" with "bloated." spider man isn't better just because he has to carry every single one of his limited and hackish tools with him everywhere he goes. Yeah, batman is a more sophisticated crimefighter, with a wide variety of specialized tools. but how often is a crime ever really a surprise? batman actually knows something about the criminal he's fighting, and he takes the time to plan out his strategy. yeah, spiderman is fine for a wide variety of small-time applications, but when it can't be done with spidey-sense, you need the console back at the bat-cave. don't blame batman if you can't figure out what you're doing before you try to fight a crime

YourMissionForToday: Spider-Man's not overloaded with tools. For example, he only uses the Spider-Man belt signal if its appropriate for his job. In addition to the industry acclaimed Spider-Sense(TM), he also developed his own webbling fluid in house, which is provided free to all customers, regardless of volume. Can Batman make any claims like that?

coed.jpg: come on, batman INVENTED the utility belt and just about anything you'll find on one today. that's what happens when you back a project with some private funding. Granted, it's cool that spiderman has the webbing built right in. but you can't deny batman's more modular approach. you always know batman's tools will work with one another, which can't always be said for spiderman. his web can stick to some impossible things, but not everything. but there's not much that batman can't grapple if he has the right hook.

YourMissionForToday: Batman's glory days are long past. I mean, sure he invented the utility belt, but when has he UPDATED it? I wouldn't be surprised to find a Bat-Hourglass in there! LOL!

coed.jpg: funny, i didn't think spiderman had a timepiece whatsoever

YourMissionForToday: during normal operation, Spider-Man is in view of number of clocks? Why waste space when he doesn't have to

coed.jpg: Yeah but what happens when there are no clocks? Batman's utility belt with his bat-clock comes in mighty handy. but the point here is not clocks, it's about whther you want a robust crime fighting system or a flashy newcomer that hasn't quite got all his powers sorted out yet. i mean which would you rather have, some kid that can swing from buildings with his own excretions, or the bat-copter?

YourMissionForToday: Let's not let this turn into name calling.

Re:props to...

[Carp Flounderson]

I'm not saying I need to... I'm saying some of us prefer to be as legit as possible. Thats why the Berkeley club is amazing. Not to mention the fact that its world class nugs.

Re:props to...

[Carp Flounderson]

hahaha, I saw that on the site earlier tonight... It was well worth the $5 for me and my whole family.

Re:props to...

[Bitter Old Man]

What are you, some kind of mari-juana smoking hippie? I say we use the rights given to us by the Second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States to blow the heads off of you god-damned sons of bitches! There's enough decadence in society with Elizabeth Taylor, the harlot, running around. A floozy, she is. And it's all these movie stars' fault, bashing this liberal scum into the heads of our children like morality and virtue are sins! I never! Such snot-noses kids are today. When I was a boy, I had nothing but 600 acres of farmland, and what do kids have today? Tele-vision. High-powered radios. Computers. They don't know what it means to have responsibilities! To work! To enjoy the beauty of nature! No, they sit in their expensive houses, while their idiotic twit parents raise them to be utter irresponsible fools. They get sent off to college and have sex before marriage! They even go so far as to denounce Lord Christ our Savior. I don't know where it all went wrong, but society is ruined. Just ruined. The damned hippies, the damned Baby Boomers, I'm telling you, they should all be shot. Point-blank, in the head. That's the Second Amendment for you. Long live the NRA. May you all burn in Hell.

- Bitter Old Man

Re:props to...

[Carp Flounderson]

I declare the following:

- An "FF" is to be known as a "first fan". For example, I just scored an FF on this guy.

- This FF is dedicated to pot smokin hippies.

Re:props to...

[Bitter Old Man]

Ah, I see! I'll bet you're a homo-sexual as well. Let me tell you something, sonny - Jesus died for our sins. What he didn't die for are faggots like you whose only contribution to society is to spew their rectal blood all over the soil of our great nation! I may be old, but I still know a queer when I see one! Reminds me of a story about my old pal James. This was during the Recession of, what was it, '31 or '32. James' family lost everything thanks to the drought that year. His pa was devastated, just devastated. They couldn't support James anymore, so he came and lived with us for awhile. We didn't have a spare bedroom, though, let alone a spare bed, so he slept with me. Well, I never! This boy was queerer than I ever thought was possible! I was tired, so I did my best to ignore him, but let me tell you, having your manhood fondled by a stinking faggot hardly promotes a good night's rest! Eventually, I got so riled, I lifted James out of bed and beat the living tar out of him. He bled for a whole two weeks! Let that be a lesson to you liberal homo bastards - I've got it in for you, you stinking flaming sons of bitches! And Jesus does, as well!

- Bitter Old Man

Re:props to...

[Anonymous Coward]

Tearoom 101

I am not sure about the origin of the word 'tearoom' but I think it comes from 'T-room' which is short for 'toilet room'. Yes, tearooms are men's rooms where sexua
l activity goes on. They are not advertised anywhere except in the graffiti on the walls of other men's rooms. You might have seen scrawls like "Hot action upstair
s" or "Sears restroom for BJ", or "Meet here 5/23/93 3:30 p.m."

There are tearooms everywhere. I believe there is at least one tea room in every university or college. Most malls have one too. Rest stops are also likely candida
tes. tearooms are usually characterized by much graffiti on the walls. I don't mean political bullshit, but rather scribblings soliciting for sex, drawings of peni
ses, butt-fucking, and blow jobs. Look carefully. You might even see cum stains on the stall walls. These are usually pale white streaks. Wet your finger with your
saliva and rub into those streaks and see if it dissolves and form a sticky goo. If so, it's most likely cum. Bring it up to your nose and you might even recogniz
e the characteristic smell of hot man cum.

If the restroom is a major tearoom, you might be lucky to find holes bored through the partitions. If it's a small hole, then it's a peep hole and it's usually fou
nd in the stall wall immediately next to a row of urinals. The peep hole is always at cock level, that is, it is usually one which allows the guy in the stall to o
bserve other guys taking out their cock meat to take a piss at the urinal. If it's a big hole, big enough to fit an erect cock through, it's called a glory hole. W
hy it's called a glory hole I don't know. (I wonder if glory holes were ever found in confessional booths where priests would involve themselves in blackmail: "Suc
k my cock or else...." Perhaps the glorious experience of their orgasms spawned the term 'glory hole'. Not sure.)

There are other tell-tale signs of an active tearoom. If the main door of the restroom opens up immediately to a plain view of the urinals and/or the toilet stalls
, then it generally does not qualify to be a tearoom. Remember, tearoom activity is a furtive activity. A suitable tearoom is one which gives guys having sex enoug
h time to scurry back to their toilet seats or their positions in front of the urinals when they hear the first creak of the restroom door. Yes, all tearoom doors
must make some noise. If it doesn't, you can be assured that someone will make it so by doing something to the hinges. So if you are looking for a tearoom in your
office, school, or local mall, look for one where the restroom door creaks open without presenting a view of the urinals and stalls, whether directly or indirectly
via the reflection of the mirrors on the wall.

Look for used toilet paper strewn all over the floor in the stalls. These are usually used to line the toilet seat when guys use the restroom for sex. Since they k
now that many guys come and go (pun intended) in that restroom, they believe that lining the toilet seat with toilet paper before sitting on it might offer some pr
otection, superficial as it may be. You will most likely see toilet paper that looks like someone has just blown their nose into it and left it on the floor crumpl
ed and stuck together. Well, it's really dick snort. Personally I think guys should try to clean up after themselves when they are done getting their rocks off to
minimize any suspicion that the restroom is being used as a cruise area. But in practice, it seems that after indulging in hot steamy sex with a stranger in the re
stroom, they just want to get the fuck outta there so they leave the place in a mess. Then again, there are people who find the disheveled condition of the restroo
m a turn-on. I met one fella who told me that he would pick up cum-loaded toilet paper from the floor and play with it, smearing the still-wet cum on his dick to m
ake it hard.

The location of a men's room is crucial in determining if it has any potential in becoming a tearoom. tearooms are generally never found in the vicinity of heavy f
oot traffic. A rest room that has a constant stream of guys coming in and out to piss or take a crap means constant interruption. You cannot hope to get any sex th
ere. Tea rooms are also not generally found in places with very little or no foot traffic, especially if it is in a building where some level of security exists. G
uys communing in the men's room in a quiet area of the premises arouses too much suspicion. Thus, a successful tearoom is one that is close but not too close to so
me but not a lot of human activity. It is usually "around the corner at the end of the hallway," "upstairs next to the janitor's store room," or "in the basement b
y the Coke machines." For starters, try checking out the men's room in the public or college library, the men's room nearest the university's computer lab, the men
's room at the movie theater, the rest stop on the Interstate, and the men's rooms at the airport.

There is a standard protocol that is observed among tearoom cruisers. If there are three stalls next to each other, you want the middle stall. That way the next gu
y who needs a stall has to choose one on either side of you. Straight guys will almost always not choose the middle of three juxtaposing stalls. If there is a long
row of stalls, say, ten, then either choose the fifth ot sixth stall or the one at the very end furthest away from the restroom entrance. The idea is that a strai
ght guy who is there simply to take a shit will go to the nearest and cleanest one he can find. He is not likely to choose the one at the far end of the restroom.
Your taking the stall at the very end signals to other cruisers that you are doing or hoping to do something naughty.

Now that you have located your tearoom and have gone into a stall, what do you do? If there isn't anyone else in the restroom, you'd have to wait and hope you get
lucky shortly. If someone walks into the restroom, listen to how he walks. If he just fucking lumbers to the urinal and lets out a long spray of piss, burps, lets
out a big fart, and leaves, then he's not it. If he walks in a somewhat calculated manner such that you could hardly hear his feet shuffle, chooses the stall next
to yours, and turns the latch in a clandestine manner, then he is a very likely candidate. Of course, it is possible the guy is trying to feign innocence by walkin
g with the normal amount of feet shuffle (yes, this is a science as well as an art) and latching the door in a careless, don't-care attitude like most straight guy
s do (or any guy who is not there to cruise), but if he chooses the stall next to yours when he could have taken one a few stalls away, then he is very likely ther
e to cruise you.

There are tearooms that are conducive for group jerk offs. I have been to a few where guys would come out of the stall closets and huddle in a circle to jack and s
uck each other off. These can be extremely hot. Cum flying and splattering everywhere. There was one group orgy like this where one guy asked me to cum on his cock
. He used my cum and rubbed it all over his cock shaft before he, too, shot his thick fuck load on another guy's face. Occasionally, two guys might go into the sam
e stall to have some fun. One would stand or crouch on the toilet seat so only one pair of legs can be seen. If the stall partitions have glory holes bored through
, then you might stick your cock through one and let the other guy feed on it or he might present his ass to you to be fucked long and hard.

Tearooms can be dangerous health-wise and security-wise. Since you are engaging in anonymous sex, you do not know the health history of your partners in the tearoo
ms. But I suppose this is no different from having sex on the first date at your place with someone you just met. Many tearooms are patrolled, possibly in plain cl
othes, by the police or security guards. But if you are into hot anonymous man-to-man action, if you are a 'straight' married man who likes to have a fling with ot
her guys without the complications of a relationship, then you might find the activities of a tearoom to just be your cup of tea!

Re:props to...

[ringbarer]

I didn't know homosexuality was around back in '32. I always assumed it was a liberal 'lifestyle choice' made possible during the acid-soaked years of flower-power.

Anyone who claims to be pathologically homosexual is a LIER. Queers are queers because they CHOOSE to be. Therefore, we are fully within our rights to beat and murder them.

Re:props to...

[Anonymous Coward]

Bigots make baby Jesus cry.

Mozilla owns!

[timecop]

I can't wait to see 1.0.
It's going to be the best (and only, really) open-source browser.

Re:Mozilla owns!

[flaw1]

Internet Explorer is the only browser humanity will ever need.

Re:Mozilla owns!

[flaw1]

You can mod the truth down, even mark it "Troll," but you can never change it.

Oh yeah, and Netscape sucks.

Re:Mozilla owns!

[arsaspe]

Konqueror 3 is looking pretty good. Alls' it needs are tabs.

Re:Mozilla owns!

[corps_inc]

Ok, have it your way, as you wish, use IE, but he specified Open source browser, ain't he?

Re:Mozilla owns!

[Aqua OS X]

If they can get the Mac and Linux builds rendering as fast as the Windows (which fly) then I will be truely happy ;)

OK, and how 'bout work'n on that slow UI for Mozilla 1.5?

Re:Mozilla owns!

[flaw1]

Open Sores is just a thin veil for programmer incompetency. Giving shitty source code away for free doesn't actually make it good code.

Internet Explorer is the only browser out there (at least at the moment) that doesn't suck.

Re:Mozilla owns!

[Anonymous Coward]

Lies! Damn lies! Nobody believes your stupid shit!

Re:Mozilla owns!

[WowTIP]

Why don't you use Opera, the browser that invented tabbed browsing? And btw, it was me that suggested Opera to use tabs, so you all owe tabbed browsing to me. :-)

Well, seriously, I have no proof they wouldn't have figured it out by them selves, but I suggested it to them and in the next version it was there.

Re:Mozilla owns!

[Anonymous Coward]

You are my hero ...

Re:Mozilla owns!

[evuldave6]

Well, the Amiga browser IBrowse was first, IIRC.

Re:Mozilla owns!

[frisket]

I hope it will be...but there are a couple of serious gray areas that need fixing:

• printing still sucks little black toads (Times only, fixed [tiny] size, under Linux);
• the email editor still has problems maintaining line-ends stable.

I've been using Moz for a couple of years and I love it, but I can't understand why these two areas are still outstanding. Does no-one print from Mozilla?

Re:Mozilla owns!

[WowTIP]

But of course I am. Most people worship me anonymously.

Re:Mozilla owns!

[WowTIP]

I was not aware of that. Then you owe tabbed browsing to me and Holger. ;)

Re:Mozilla owns!

[arsaspe]

Opera is nice, but I found it often rendered pages incorrectly, had trouble with large pages, java, javascript, css, etc, and the Banner add annoyed me.

I havn't really tried it in a while; Guess I should go download the latest version and see what its like.

Bad Links

[bonzoesc]

But does it check ahead for links like this one? I'd kill a man for a browser that blocks that sort of site.

Re:Bad Links

[Anonymous Coward]

Hrm, I'm too scared (or wise) after falling for so many goatscx links...

It would be nice to have the ability to block images without visiting the site, certainly; or the ability to block entire sites .

Fuck, for all I know, you just liked to an Easter Bunny Fan Club page (although 'tacoinspector' doesn't give me much hope...

Re:Bad Links

[bonzoesc]

Goatse redirect with a counter for each user. My score just jumped from 198 to 224. KEEP CLICKING, SLASHBOTS!

Re:Bad Links

[Anonymous Coward]

Blocking imgs
Opera: press "g", click unknown link (g toggles images)
Blocking Sites:
Open hosts (search, normally in /etc, or WINNT_HOME\system32\etc\) add line
shitty_site 127.0.0.1

Re:Bad Links

[Anonymous Coward]

I for one, always click on links presented to me by trolls. While I do enjoy the gaping anus of the goatse.cx man, deep inside I yearn for some new flesh to see. But I probably account for at least 75% of your redirects.

Re:Bad Links

[Anonymous Coward]

you think... i have trolls and flaimbait modded up and "funny" (ya know, as in fucking queer?) modded down. i do love that large gaping ass. ooohh.. ::moans:: i'm sorry, i have to go jack off again.

Re:Bad Links

[Anonymous Coward]

Has anyone else tried this trick. Look at the source within the first 10 seconds, as it meta-redirects automaticly to Our Favorite Gaping Anus (OFGA)

This way you can delayed-blast people to OFGA by, for example, making a mirror of a slashdotted site, but adding the meta-tag. The page will seem perfectly benign to a moderator with an itching "+1, informative" -finger...

Re:Bad Links

[Bert64]

Galeon gives you the option to block images from particular sites, i have a big list of adserving ip`s, doubleclick.net etc, added already. The option to selectively ban certain types of javascript (popups/popunders mainly) from particular sites would be nice, also the option to block images based on a path (www.bleh.com/ads/*.jpg) instead of the entire server

this is good news..

[NYCEE]

good news to have mozilla 1.0 around the corner.

Reason #248 why Linux sucks

[Rock 'N' Troll]

Hey all Linux whores around here!

Did you know that hick.org, host for goatse.cx is running on LINUX servers?

I just thought you wanted to know! :)

Re:Reason #248 why Linux sucks

[YourMissionForToday]

PLZ MOD UP! Parent post is very informative...and EROTIC!

Re:Reason #248 why Linux sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

>Did you know that hick.org [hick.org], host for goatse.cx [goatse.cx] is running on LINUX servers?

Yes. It's just another proof that Linux can take it up the ass and keep on ticking.

Re:Reason #248 why Linux sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

hick.org also hosts DolphinSex not to mention the official Osama Bin Laden sex pic and the official WORKSUCKS page.

Mozilla 1.0 a.k.a 0.9999999...

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject. Please don't contest that 1 = 0.9999999... this has been hashed out a thousand times on the sci.math newsgroup. Go find a FAQ.

Re:Mozilla 1.0 a.k.a 0.9999999...

[Neil Blender]

Well, that really depends on your processor.

Re:Mozilla 1.0 a.k.a 0.9999999...

[Anonymous Coward]

Go see sci.engr, there they will tell 1=0.999999... :-) ("close enough dammit", or "within experimental error").

Re:Mozilla 1.0 a.k.a 0.9999999...

[Ace Rimmer]

If those were actual real number this would refer to the same number ;))

Re:Mozilla 1.0 a.k.a 0.9999999...

[vistic]

Is it all official and stuff that 1 = .999999(...)?

I learned this in 8th grade (1/9=.1111..., 2/9=.2222..., 3/9=.3333... and so on and so on. 8/9=.8888..., 9/9=.9999=1). I wonder what the philosophers say.

Re:Mozilla 1.0 a.k.a 0.9999999...

[Anonymous Coward]

Smoke a kipper for me, hot-shot.

Re:Mozilla 1.0 a.k.a 0.9999999...

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it all official and stuff that 1 = .999999(...)?

Yes. Think of recurring decimals as the limit of the sequence with terms z_n =
0.9
0.99
0.999
etc.

Now, consider the sequence {z_n - 1}. For any x>0, there is always a term in this sequence with modulus smaller than x. For example, take x = 0.00123. A smaller term is |0.999 - 1| = 0.001. By the (sequence) definition of a limit, {z_n - 1 } tends to 0 as n tends to infinity.

So, {z_n} tends to 1.

Similar fun will show that 0.333333... is actually one third, etc.

Re:Mozilla 1.0 a.k.a 0.9999999...

[iamplasma]

Actually, the simplest proof is:

x=0.999...
10x=9.999...
-------------
9x=9.00 0...
x=1

QED

The same principle can be used to convert any repeating decimal into a fraction without much difficulty.

Re:Mozilla 1.0 a.k.a 0.9999999...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm suprised we're not seeing Mozilla 1.0, RC 0.1, RC 0.2...

Re:Mozilla 1.0 a.k.a 0.9999999...

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, the simplest proof is

I know multiplying by 10 "moves the decimal place once to the right" is inherent in the notation (is this intuitively obvious for recurring decimals?), but it doesn't help me get a *feeling* of the number.

I gave my proof because it serves to interpret ANY number represented in decimal notation in R with infinite non-zero digits (and its arithmetic), not just in Q.

Re:Mozilla 1.0 a.k.a 0.9999999...

[iamplasma]

Well, I guess it could just be a question of opinion, yours just looked a bit more technical, as opposed to the fairly simple math in the 10x-x proof.

Testament to the project

[Shriek]

There have been numerous milestone releases, but this is the one that proves that this project was doable from the start depsite the naysayers. What's even more amazing that the Mozilla development team started from a source tree that was a poster child for how not to maintain a source tree. Keep up the good work Mozilla team!

Re:Testament to the project

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to admit that Mozilla has become a great browser now. I tried 0.8.0, and quite frankly, it sucked. Then I gave 0.9.8 a try. What an improvement!

Basically, I only use IE for Windows Update these days (work at a MS shop).

frist post

[Anonymous Coward]

frost pist, bizatches!

Kudos to open sores!

[Anonymous Coward]

After 4 years of hard, unrewarding work, it's good to see the 1.0 Mozilla release of a web browser. Of course, MSIE is up to version 6 by now, but give the Mozilla team 6 x 4 years and they'll soon catch up!

See you in 24 years, bitches!

Re:Kudos to open sores!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey! What are you?? An idiot?

Version numbers don't mean shit. The fact is that Mozilla is an amazing feat done in four years. It is both standards compliant (which IE is not!) and has much more functionality (skinning and tabs to name a few!) than IE!

So get your facts right before spouting nonsense on Slashdot!!!

Re:Kudos to open sores!

[Anonymous Coward]

Version numbers don't mean shit.

That must explain why Linux is at 2.4 and Windows XP is at 5.2....

Re:Kudos to open sores!

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you arguing that Mozilla isn't releasing version 1.0? And that MSIE is already up to version 6.0? If not, then SHUT THE FUCK UP, BITCH!

Hmmm...what a dilemna. Use version "1.0" of a browser written by some open sores, unemployed, unwashed, unshaven, communist, terrorist sympathising, college drop-out hippies on a sugar high from coke and pizza, or use an industry standard browser already up to version 6.0, with full 100% guaranteed compatibility with all web sites, developed by an all-American, anti-terrorist respected corporate giant called Microsoft. Add to that, Mozilla was probably written in something slow and bloated like Python, Java, or PERL (the open sores hippie's favorite piece of shit language), while Microsoft's browser in written in 100% C or C++.

Gee, call me crazy, but I know what will be running on *MY* machine!

Re:Kudos to open sores!

[Bedouin X]

Since many of the primary Mozilla developers are from Netscape, Redhat, and IBM, I don't think that you are making a fair assumption.

I can't wait

[CmdrTaco (editor)]

Since I am forced to use Windows at work, for a long time IE was the best choice. The "page widening posts" by our friend Klerck I tried Mozilla, and I didn't like it, so I settled on Opera. I'd much rather use something open source to redeem myself for the sins of using an MS OS, so hopefully Mozilla will great improve (and soon).

Re:I can't wait

[Dr. Spork]

It's hard for me to tell whether you're kidding. You're forced to use Windows at work? Do you perhaps have a job that we don't know about?

Which bosses impose this on you... the company formerly known as VA Linux? I'm not trolling; just puzzled.

Re:I can't wait

[dimator]

I'd much rather use something open source to redeem myself for the sins of using an MS OS,

Anyone else envision RMS (or am I thinking of another rabid/psycho three-letter nickname guy), sitting on the blind side of a confessional, with mere mortals begging forgiveness for using non-open software on the other?

Re:I can't wait

[Anonymous Coward]

+2 troll!

Re:I can't wait

[glwtta]

What's so puzzling about being forced to use Windows at work? Plenty of companies have "MS Only" policies, or am I just missing something?

Re:I can't wait

[Dehumanizer]

But you do have a choice. If I was forced to use Windows at work, I'd simply change employers.

And I mean it. I've done it before (May 2000).

Re:I can't wait

[Anonymous Coward]

UH. Your work forces you to use Windows?

Does Slashdot run on IIS?

Are you drunk or something?

You on goofballs?

I must admit that i didn't think it would happen

[colmore]

When I first started playing around with Mozilla (mid-99) I figgured they would *never* have a usable product. The thing just plain didn't work.

And while they are a bit behind schedule. 4 years for a 1.0 doesn't sound bad when you realize that this is a .0 that means something, as opposed to most commercial vendors (and a lot of OS projects) that usually wait until 3.x to begin getting things right.

Good job guys.

(posted on 0.99)

Where did 1.0 go?

[mnordstr]

The release schedule on mozilla.org shows a release of 1.0 RC1, but no 1.0. When is 1.0 scheduled to come out?

Re:Where did 1.0 go?

[RealityThreek]

RC1 stands for Release Canditate 1. It's similar to a "beta" version, although much more mature than a beta would be.

Hopefully the full 1.0 release is coming soon. :)

Re:Where did 1.0 go?

[Anonymous Coward]

RC == Final if no one finds bugs
Beta == Getting there, but know bugs and some features missing.
Aplha == All software from MS
Pre-Aplha == All current Mozilla releases.

Merry Trolls Day Everyone!

Re:Where did 1.0 go?

[Anonymous Coward]

Its on the roadmap, looks like it'll be released around May 1th.

Re:Where did 1.0 go?

[Anonymous Coward]

Usually software goes from 1.0A (alpha) to 1.0B (beta) to 1.0RC (release candidate) to 1.0. Each step is generally acknowledged to have less bugs in quantity and quality.

Re:Where did 1.0 go?

[Tumbarumba]

The 1.0 branch is long lived, but it has only just branched and has not stabilised yet. Nightly builds on this branch will be labeled with RC1 in the "About Mozilla" screen and user agent string. When drivers is happy that there are no major issues, and then the RC1 will disappear from the reporting string.

Re:Where did 1.0 go?

[DrSkwid]

Almost right.

A beta is released to find bugs it's not sugegsted that this is the final version.

RC1 is exactly that. The developers are stating "We think the job is finished. This is the code we are going to release. Any problems/feedback?"

mozilla script updates

[unixwin]

cp /dev/null ie cp /dev/null netscape cp /dev/null opera cp /dev/null konqueror

Re:mozilla script updates

[Anonymous Coward]

it should be /dev/zero

Re:mozilla script updates

[Anonymous Coward]

You're dumb.

If you're gonna make a dumb joke like that, do it with /dev/zero.

Simple Question

[Murdock037]

It's a funny coincidence that this ended up as a story, as I was peering around the Mozilla website tonight trying to figure out an answer to one question:

When now can we expect an official 1.0 release?

I'm not a programmer in any way, so I don't know much of anything about development schedules or whatnot. And all the FAQs seemed to tiptoe around a definitive answer.

Awfully convenient that this became a story; I didn't want to ask in any of the other stories' comment sections, 'cause I didn't want to be offtopic.

Re:Simple Question

[Anonymous Coward]

No worries, it will come out around the same time Gnome 2.0 is released, which will occur sooner or after the Mozilla release.

Re:Simple Question

[jilles]

There's an article on Mozillazine explaining RC1 and its relation to 1.0 final which is due as soon as the developers are happy with the RC. The article even leaves room for an RC 2 if one is needed.

Re:Simple Question

[Screaming Lunatic]

Well, check out this newsgroup post.

It doesn't give a clear date, but it shows the Mozilla peoples' line of thinking. You need to test to make sure that the package that you distribute, be it rpm, debian package, tarball, installs correctly on all platforms. That nothing was overlooked, and that there aren't any showstoppers. RC1 is pretty much Mozilla1.0 feature wise. The difference between the two will be a spit polish to make sure everything is nice and shiny.

PK

Re:Simple Question

[Rentar]

When now can we expect an official 1.0 release?

It seems to be, that it will be when it's ready and not an minute earlier. I think the mozilla guys take this release quite serious, 'cause they have to live with the API of this release for a pretty long time. In case you didn't realize: Mozilla 1.0 is targeted primarily on developers/embedders, although I'm pretty sure many end-users (especially from the /.-crowd) will use it, nonetheless.

If you want to get some kind of countdown you could try to look into Bugzilla and search for bugs with the "mozilla1.0"-keyword and blocker severity (I could provide a link, but b.m.o will definitely have better things do do than serve the /.-crowd with requests, if you're really interested, just enter the query yourself, it's not that hard).

Re:Simple Question

[AntiTuX]

RC1 comes out tentatively this week (I'm on the build and release team).

Re:Simple Question

[cafelatte]

I'm guessing about 3 months. One thing I've admired about mozilla is their uncompromising quality assurance approach. The fact they took 3 years to get to a stable build shows the tenacity and patience of the quality assurance people. I doubt that they're just going to release RC1 and then release the official 1.0. They'd want to release RC2 and wait for any screams first. If there's silence then out comes 1.0 final.

Re:Simple Question

[AntiTuX]

wrong. I'd say 2 weeks, tops. I've been playing with nightly builds lately, and they're looking really promising. There *are* bugs, but those will get ironed out quickly. The developers are great about that. They get shit fixed fast. Keep in mind, that it might have taken 3 years to get to 1.0, but it was worth the wait.

Re:Simple Question

[Citizen of Earth]

RC1 comes out tentatively this week

And we're expected to believe the Antitux?!

Re:Simple Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Correction: It's already out.

It figures....

[Dr. Spork]

I was shocked when I heard their plans to go from 0.9.9 straight to 1.0. Such a bold numerical jump! Now I see what they had up their sleeve: RC-releases! I think to keep up the humor, they should have called it .9.9.9, with RC2 being .9.9.9.1 and so on. That way, it would really convey the sense that they're close to 1.0!

Alternately, they could declare that 1.0 is an asymptotic limit for Mozilla, and no actual human coded Mozilla will ever reach it, though future versions will come closer.

Re:It figures....

[bonzoesc]

We see that with a lot of open-source software - as the version numbers get higher, they change by less, never reaching 1.0. Go look at all the .99s on sourceforge for many laughs.

Re:It figures....

[Anonymous Coward]

I can predict the next few mozilla related headlines:

Mozilla 1.0 About to Be Released - Developer spotted typing up the release announcement

Final Mozilla 1.0 Tarballs being compiled - stdio.h will be included

Mozilla 1.0 On Its Way - Electrons respresenting the 1.0 tarball have left the build server and are on their way to the ftp server. Expected to arrive soon.

Mozilla 1.0 Released? -There is no announcement but some warez d00ds claim to have already downloaded it.

1.0 will be here soon enough. How many stories about it do we need?

Re:It figures....

[DAV3]

Knuth did the asymptote thing with Tex and Metafont.

Metafont is asymptoting to e (2.7182 at the moment)

TeX is ampytoting to pi (3.14159)

Re:It figures....

[vistic]

:-D

Re:It figures....

[goodEvans]

It's all beginning to look like a TAN curve, getting infinitely close to 1 without ever touching it.

Re:It figures....

[blibbleblobble]

Then search commercial software adverts for versions 99, 1999, and 2000...

Re:It figures....

[Anonymous Coward]

this joke may have been funny when it was original. now it's just old

Re:It figures....

[mattbelcher]

My next software project is going to asymptote to i.

Re:It figures....

[Bluetick]

I could see it now. Using the metals measuring standard.

"Hey what version of Mozilla are you using?"

"I'm using six nines."

"Holy crap man, I'm still on four nines."

Re:It figures....

[Citizen of Earth]

TeX is ampytoting to pi (3.14159)

So do you have version 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993 or 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937?

Re:It figures....

[maxpublic]

We see that with a lot of open-source software - as the version numbers get higher, they change by less, never reaching 1.0. Go look at all the .99s on sourceforge for many laughs.

Yeah, it's almost as funny as commercial companies releasing software with version numbers like .95 and .98. Especially when said software is clearly much more along the lines of .50.

Max

Re:It figures....

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not just go from 0.9.9 to 0.10.0 if it's such a problem?

Stable API

[chefren]

The most important feature in 1.0 is that the api will now be stable for the 1.0.x series. This means a lot to galeon & co. Nobody is saying that 1.0 will be perfect, but since mozilla is a good browser suite already, the 1.0.x series is liiking very promising.

Seen it

[Anonymous Coward]

There was a Moz 1.0RC1 troll that was getting modded down left and right earlier. What took you guys so long?

Great

[Judecca]

Now we can finally integrate it into the kernel!

Then the Opera Vs Netscape trials start, and life begins anew.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[dimator]

I for one am *extremely* grateful to the developers of high-quality applications that I use for work and play. I don't know what I would use if not for mozilla, but I'm sure it would not be as cool. (No replies about konqueror or Opera. Sorry, but they just don't cut it for me.) It's been a long, painful road, with more than a few bug reports, some patches, and more crashes than I can shake a stick at, but I've had fun. And if the ends justify the means, well then 1.0's delay is justified.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[idiotnot]

It has become a quite good app; the same could be said of many open-source products. I was thinking about this the other day....I'm in my fifth year of college, and I graduate next month. When I started, I couldn't do my work on Linux without either spending loads of $$ for ported commercial products, or constantly grinding my teeth. Two and a half years ago, I went pretty much linux all the time, using StarOffice as my suite. Still, I was stuck with Netscape 4.x as my browser. But now, I'm able to do all my work in a pure open-source environment (I'm not a CS major...I'm one of those social science types). It's a big change. Mozilla is a very good product. Congrats, and thanks folks.

--typing this on Galeon, one of the many Mozilla kids.

One drawback of new roadmap

[jacobb]

I use mozilla only, so I may be a bit biased. I love it. I have a Fat32 partition with my stuff (mail, bookmarks, etc.) and so can use Mozilla on linux, openbsd and windows without having to copy anything back and forth :-D

Anyway, now that the tree has branched (which is really cool, by the way) the only drawback that I see is that I won't get my Mozilla fix every 5 weeks (5 weeks in Mozilla development-speak is more like 7 :o). Their release schedule has changed to 13 weeks.
Well, hopefully it will be 13 chronological weeks rather than 13 mozilla release weeks, hehe.

But anyway, once I've been weened off my Install-Newest-Version-of-Mozilla addiction, I guess I'll appreciate that all the serious bugs have been ironed out (i haven't noticed a single one since an early 0.9.x), it's so fscking customizable, and the performance is far better than anything except perhaps Opera. [I'm not even going to mention lynx - whoops. Damn]

Hey, I said I was biased (^&

Re:One drawback of new roadmap

[Anonymous Coward]

Think of it this way: now that there are 13 weeks rather than 5-7 between releases, the improvement in features & quality with each milestone will be that much more noticeable...

Re:One drawback of new roadmap

[jacobb]

that's like telling a smoker that if he quits every other day, each time he lights up it will be that much better.

Sorry, pal. It don't work that way :)

On another note, it's getting so fantastically good right now (not to mention all of the bugs that were marked for 1.0 will be fixed [Note: copy & paste URL - can't link to bugzilla from slashdot]) that it will probably be that much less noticable. Think of the differences between the linux kernel between the beginning and 1.0 and the more recent changes. Or pick any of the distributions. Or apps. I think you'll see a trend.
(Of course, there are exceptions, every so often radical changes take place - usually in apps - but they are quite rare)

Re:One drawback of new roadmap

[Dacobi]

>that's like telling a smoker that if he quits every other day,
>each time he lights up it will be that much better.
>
>Sorry, pal. It don't work that way :)

Yes it does! :)

If I quit smoking for a day, no words can describe how wounderfull that "first" cigaret is going feel ;)

Re:One drawback of new roadmap

[Galvatron]

Okay, first of all, you are way too fucking jovial. I count 3 smilies and one "hehe" in a three paragraph post.

Second of all, 5 weeks is not 7 weeks in mozilla development speak, because the releases have not been getting progressively later. Sure, if you count from one build's "ideal release" date to the next build's "actual release" date, you might come up with 7, but from one actual release to the next, 5 is accurate.

Finally, the point of going to a longer build cycle is to make sure that each build is more stable, with more or less all the bugs ironed out. This is, in fact, a good thing. If you preferred the less stable, more frequent releases, there's always the nightlies.

Re:One drawback of new roadmap

[vondo]

Not exactly. You can get your fix every 4 weeks or so on the roadmap by using alphas and betas. The roadmap says (or at least used to say) that this was an attempt to match what was actually happening (0.9.3, 0.9.5, and 0.9.7 were all of lesser quality than their predecessors because major changes were being introduced.)

And, as someone else has pointed out, you can always get nightlies (or watch the build comments at Mozillazine.org and pick out a nice nightly every week or two).

If that doesn't do it, build from the source. (It's pretty easy, actually.)

Right-click Back

[NaCh0]

If you download a recent mozilla build, you'll find that the right-click context menus have been damaged. If you right-click on an image, you no longer can navigate back! Imagine how bad this is while browsing sites with lots of images! (screenshots, pr0n, etc)

Please vote for bug 135331.

Re:Right-click Back

[IvyMike]

I agree that there's a strong argument to be made for the "back" menu to appear in the context menus everywhere. In fact, a few months ago, this would have been infuriating.

But I've switched to using gestures, and I no longer ever use the context menu for "back"; just a quick flick of the wrist and I'm where I want to be. It's so cool, I'm going to use two syllables here to pronounce the word "sweet": Sah-Weet!

I suspect that the "back" menu item will reappear in mozilla shortly, but in the meanwhile, take this opportunity to try out the gestures feature. You might end up preferring it.

Re:Right-click Back

[irony nazi]

I've always hated how the menu's change positions of items depending on what the mouse is hovering over. I'd rather have grayed out options than have moving options. It makes for a guessing game.

On pr0n sites, sometimes I don't even know if I'm over an image or not and having to read and think about the right click menu is pretty annoying.

Also, what's with the menu popping out at a different corner of the mouse cursor depending upon which side of the screen I am on? Do I really need to stop, wait, and think for the damn thing to unfold before I start moving the mouse towards whichever option I want to choose? Wouldn't it be better if the menu always unfurolled in the same direction so that I could always move the mouse down the same fixed distance that I trained myself to do. I don't care if the cursor jumps up or over or wherever in order to accomplish this, let's just keep the menu the same (Apple has a okay solution to this, but IMO it's still wrong).

Speaking of unfurolling, should the menu come out from the center around the mouse? That minimizes the distance all of the options and they can put the most common options smack dab in the middle--- never move the mouse.

Re:Right-click Back

[Anonymous Coward]

ALT + left arrow?

Re:Right-click Back

[Malc]

"Speaking of unfurolling, should the menu come out from the center around the mouse? That minimizes the distance all of the options and they can put the most common options smack dab in the middle"

No, the mouse pointer should never be over an item when the menu appears. That makes it too easy to accidentally click on a menu item you didn't intend. Believe me: I've experienced something similar before. 4 years ago, we used to use a x-platform GUI toolkit from a company called Neuron Data (Moron Data???), at least under Windows, the conext menus appeared with the first item selected. We had so many complaints that we wrote custom code to move the menu before it displayed so that the mouse pointer was off by 1.

Secondly, I would imagine that another justification of having menu appear right and down when it can, is that it makes reading the menu easiest and most natural.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[sulli]

I agree. 0.99 is the first version of mozilla I have found to be remotely usable (mac os 9) - previous ones had crashed HARD - and now I am a convert. well done moz team!

Switch from IE to Mozilla NOW ! :-)

[javaXP]

Just because IE comes with windows is not an excuse to not use this wonderful browser. Switch NOW ! :-)

Re:Switch from IE to Mozilla NOW ! :-)

[Anonymous Coward]

but mozilla sucks. just look at Netscrape.

Re:Switch from IE to Mozilla NOW ! :-)

[Anonymous Coward]

Honestly, I would. But it dosent render MSNBC properly.

Sorry.

*shrugs*

Re:Switch from IE to Mozilla NOW ! :-)

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey troll, maybe it would if MSNBC.com was valid xhtml.....

Re:Switch from IE to Mozilla NOW ! :-)

[xenoc_1]

Ironically, Netscape 6.2 does work on MSNBC, including all the cascading menus/DHTML stuff. So it's purely due to MSNBC doing *incorrect* browser sniffing - looking explicitly for Netscape 6.x rather than for any Mozilla/Gecko-based browser.

I emailed them via their feedback form last week. Don't know if it will help, but since they *do* support the arch-competitor TWAOL Netscape-branded browser, maybe it was just a coding bug.

OTOH, I wonder what MS considers more of a threat? Another monopoly-style media/internet conglomerate like AOL Time-Warner, or the Open Source movement? Maybe supporting branded-Netscape but not Open Source Mozilla is deliberate...

Re:Switch from IE to Mozilla NOW ! :-)

[Anonymous Coward]

I run Mozilla here under Windows. But I'm not about to make it my browser of choice. It's alright, but I actually like Netscape 4.79 better.

Currently my primary browser is Opera, and has been since version 5.02 It's the best browser around for Windows and Linux. I have it on every computer I own!

Mozilla is an alright browser, but it doesn't even come close to Opera!

Star Trek: Voyager sucks ass.. seriously.

[Voyager Sucks Ass]

So I'm watching Star Trek: Voyager, because it's on every fucking night, and this motherfucker comes on the screen, and he looks like a fucking homeless person with shit on his head. The costume design looked like some fucker took a big fat dookie on this dude's head, and these fuckers are calling it a new species of alien. What the hell is that? Are they running out of fucking ideas, or is this like that time-travel/borg bullshit?

I have an idea, TAKE VOYAGER OFF MY FUCKING TV SO ITS NOT ON WHEN I'M CHANNEL SURFING FOR PORN. Jesus fucking christ. Is that too much to ask?

Re:Star Trek: Voyager sucks ass.. seriously.

[flaw1]

Yeah, seriously. Since when can a woman fly a starship?

Re:Star Trek: Voyager sucks ass.. seriously.

[Voyager Sucks Ass]

Seriously. What the fuck is this "woman captain" bullshit? I mean, what the fuck happens when she's in the middle of flying the goddamn ship, and she starts on the rag? huh? She's going to bleed all over the captain's chair. Who's going to clean that shit up? What about the smell?

Kirk knew the fucking score. Chicks are for fucking, and cleaning your fucking captain's quarters. Period. That's it. When they start getting all these big ideas in their head, about "wearing clothes", and getting that "whore" tattoo removed from their forehead, that's when all the fucking problems start, and from there on it's just downhill.

Re:Star Trek: Voyager sucks ass.. seriously.

[Anonymous Coward]

Right on.

When I see a hot chick on her knees scrubbing the toilet bowl, I smile and get a tear in my eye. I am so happy.

How long did it take?

[Anonymous Coward]

The earliest references to Mozilla I can find date from October '94, over 7 years ago!

I bet it didn't take Microsoft that long to release Windows 1.0

Re:How long did it take?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because Mozilla used to be the code name for Netscape.

However, modern-day Mozilla started out in 1998, when portions of the Netscape code were liberated. Since then, a lot of work on the code has been done, and what you have now is what is currently referred to as "Mozilla", the open source browser. Not to be confused with Netscape, i.e. the "old" Mozilla, which you are referring to as having heard about in '94.

Re:How long did it take?

[corps_inc]

Just to wnlighten you. Windows 1.0 was for non moveable windows nothing else.

Second. IE and Netscape 1.0 supported what? Mozilla 1.0 is taking aim at W3C standards and IE 6 level and mozilla is doing that succesfully. It's a great OOS browser and you know it, otherwise you wouldn't write what you just did. You're just one of common people that finds hard to accept new standards. OOS is future

How long is IE in progress now? More than seven years, still buggy with security holes. Doesn't really deserve 6 version.

Re:How long did it take?

[corps_inc]

"enlighten" I'm sorry. And "four" non moveable windows.

Re:How long did it take?

[LPetrazickis]

It did if you realize that Windows XP is the first one to approach Mozilla 1.0's quality.

Re:How long did it take?

[arkane1234]

I bet it didn't take Microsoft that long to release Windows 1.0

but it did take them nearly 10-14 years to get Windows even partially right with the release of Windows 95.

Re:How long did it take?

[WhiteKnight07]

Even then they didn't really get it right untill Windows 2000. Which is by the way, the best OS they ever made.

Hrm.... Beggars cant be choosers, I know.

[Bowie J. Poag]

I don't wanna come off like a whiner here, but Mozilla is not going to find much of an audience unless freetype support is _standard_ ... The days of craptastic font rendering in X are over. Its the #1 reason I switched to Konqueror after having used Mozilla for nearly 3 years--Smooth AA fonts, more control, better appearance. It just seems like Mozilla is not on the same page as everyone else.

Cheers

Re:Hrm.... Beggars cant be choosers, I know.

[Dr. Spork]

I must say that I agree entirely, both with the sentiment that this is no occasion to whine about Mozilla's current shortcomings, but also with the observation that the fonts still look bad and don't need to.

Is freetype support for *nix releases being planned by the AOL developers? If not, would it be hard for an independent OSS project to hack it together? I really do think this is important. Like the author of the parent post, I instinctively fire up Konqueror, and turn to Mozilla only when I find Konqueror can't render what I'm looking at (and this is becoming very rare). The only reason I do this is because the fonts look so much better.

Re:Hrm.... Beggars cant be choosers, I know.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't wanna come off like a whiner here, but Mozilla is not going to find much of an audience unless freetype support is _standard_

Given the state of free browers, I'll take functionality over fancy fonts any day.

I think the Mozilla developers have made good choices. Not everyone's computer has the horsepower for AA fonts, but everyone can benefit from working Javascript! I doubt that the fonts are a showstopper for most people and I'm sure they will be coming along in an upcoming release anyway.

Re:Hrm.... Beggars cant be choosers, I know.

[Bowie J. Poag]

My 8MB Pentium 100 had the horsepower to do AA fonts, and that was nearly 10 years ago. The "horsepower" argument just doesn't hold water. This is another "programmers are not aesthetic engineers" problem, i'm afraid. Good code, poor delivery. Whats the use of having a great car engine if the chassis weighs 38,000 tons?

Re:Hrm.... Beggars cant be choosers, I know.

[psamuels]

I don't wanna come off like a whiner here, but Mozilla is not going to find much of an audience unless freetype support is _standard_ ... The days of craptastic font rendering in X are over.

Actually, the font rendering system in X is as aliased as ever - the original text API is not flexible enough to handle gray shades or alpha values, only monochrome. (Bitmaps and mouse cursors are monochrome for much the same reason - ever wonder why Xpm has always been a mere add-on to Xlib proper?)

Its the #1 reason I switched to Konqueror after having used Mozilla for nearly 3 years--Smooth AA fonts, more control, better appearance.

Linking to the freetype lib, subverting the X server font engine and rendering fonts is not the job of the application, it is the job of the GUI toolkit. (Sure, you can do it in the browser, but it's just wrong.)

Konqueror takes advantage of the fact that recent versions of Qt have support for client-side AA font rendering. Mozilla is stuck with Gtk+ 1.2, which does not. Gtk+ 2.0 does AA just fine, but the 2.0 API is different enough that it would be silly to try and port Mozilla to it before 1.0 goes gold.

(There's an AA for fonts? "My name is Helvetica and I have jaggies." [all] "Hi Helvetica.")

Re:Hrm.... Beggars cant be choosers, I know.

[psamuels]

Is freetype support for *nix releases being planned by the AOL developers?

I'm sure it is, since it basically entails switching from the Gtk+ 1.2 API to the Gtk+ 2.0 API. Note that according to the GNOME people, porting to the newer API is not trivial, so my guess is, it'll happen in the Moz 1.1 branch, not the 1.0 branch.

Re:Hrm.... Beggars cant be choosers, I know.

[IamTheRealMike]

Yeah, I know about this one, in fact I was investigating it a few days ago. My big problem is that fonts often appear too small. This seems to be because Windows and Linux interpret font sizes slightly differently, and pages designed to look good on IE/Windows use smaller font sizes than look good on Linux.

I often find I have to ctrl-zoom the text a couple of times to make a web page readable. I'm not entirely sure how they intend to fix this, perhaps by bringing freetype in line with Windows rendering?

Re:Hrm.... Beggars cant be choosers, I know.

[dalinian]

Konqueror takes advantage of the fact that recent versions of Qt have support for client-side AA font rendering. Mozilla is stuck with Gtk+ 1.2, which does not. Gtk+ 2.0 does AA just fine, but the 2.0 API is different enough that it would be silly to try and port Mozilla to it before 1.0 goes gold.

Would you happen to have any info about when Mozilla will be ported to GTK 2.0? In particular, is there some development version for it already in cvs or somewhere?

Now that GNOME 2 is going to be out soon, many new people are going to start to use GTK 2.0 apps. This might accelerate the bugtesting for other GTK 2.0 apps too.

Re:Hrm.... Beggars cant be choosers, I know.

[Anonymous Coward]

What distribution do you use? Ever since I last apt-get upgrade'd my mozilla fonts are antialiased. It was even preconfigured to not try to AA fonts below a 12 points or so, just like I like it.

Re:Hrm.... Beggars cant be choosers, I know.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, 'classic' IE/Win doesn't handle CSS sizes correctly (things like "small" "x-small", etc), which causes fonts to appear tiny in all other browsers, including IE/Mac. However, if you feed IE6 the correct DOCTYPE, it works properly.

I'm not sure what Mozilla can do to fix this without emulating broken behavior. Maybe make a toolbar icon for zoom.

Re:Hrm.... Beggars cant be choosers, I know.

[calebp]

my only complaint is that it is such a bloody memory hog. Other than that, mozilla rocks.

Re:Hrm.... Beggars cant be choosers, I know.

[Anonymous Coward]

AA mozilla is here...
http://www.stanford.edu/~satyakid/mozilla .html

Re:Hrm.... Beggars cant be choosers, I know.

[psamuels]

Would you happen to have any info about when Mozilla will be ported to GTK 2.0? In particular, is there some development version for it already in cvs or somewhere?

No clue.

Re:Hrm.... Beggars cant be choosers, I know.

[arkane1234]

Yeah... your right. nearly every webbrowser out there (minus the ones that have stripped down functions) are memory hogs, including IE. It's just that most of the memory taken is in the operating system =) *LOL*

Unfortunately, as time goes on and programs become more complex, more memory is necessary. That, and the API on the underside seem to continuously take more memory! I wonder why... never took the time to find that out.

Re:Hrm.... Beggars cant be choosers, I know.

[Sentry21]

I would assume this is because most operating systems have one font rendering routine that works fine, and so Mozilla can just use the normal text rendering. KDE is written with QT, which handles all that stuff. Mozilla needs to specifically code in Freetype support, which may not even be present on the X server -or- the client end.

Yes, it'd be nice, but I don't blame them for not putting it on the priority list. X isn't on the same page as everyone else, and that's where the problem lies.

--Dan

Re:Hrm.... Beggars cant be choosers, I know.

[kevdog]

Yea, Blizzard is doing this atm. Here is the tracking bug:
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92033

I'm not sure how far he's gotten though.

obligitory view-source comment

[farnsworth]

I can't use mozilla to develop web applications because view-source is broken...

55583

oh wait... it's fixed.

nevermind.

Re:obligitory view-source comment

[Fjord]

I never understood this comment. The DOM browser is better than view-source in almost all cases, especially since you can use the tool to click-select your DOM object. View-source is so IE5.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[RealityThreek]

Starting with version 0.9.8, I finally switched fully over to Mozilla.

It's really turned into a great app. Not only is it not playing catch-up with Internet Explorer anymore, but I'd argue that they are beating it with some of its new features like tabbed browsing.

Here's to hoping Mozilla will give open source a nice rebound in the desktop market.

You know what's erotic?

[Voyager Sucks Ass]

I'll tell you what's fucking EROTIC. Seeing that sexy minx Seven of Nine impaled on my fucking cock. I swear to god I'm going to break into that bitch's house, rip out that fucking borg implant, fuck her skull, and jizz all over her brain.

Then I'll put that bitch on a leash and parade her around naked. I bet that fucking dyke Janeway would pay a million fucking dollars to see that shit.

Re:You know what's erotic?

[YourMissionForToday]

what are borg implant? Are they like breast implant?

Re:You know what's erotic?

[Voyager Sucks Ass]

It's that metal shit on her head, above her fucking eye.

But now that I think about it, it might just be easier to jab out her eye with a screwdriver or something, and fuck her eye socket.

I think I might miss jizzing all over her brain, though.

You ever seen the movie "Young, Dumb, and full of Cum" ? I'll make that shit seem like Sesame Street.

Very good news.

[I have nutsack]

It's also good news that I have a satchel, within which I may store and transport nuts. Perhaps you've heard of such a device?

Hope 1.0 works

[magi]

At least the last 0.9.9 RPM packages were rubbish; Mozilla threw Segmentation fault immediately at startup. Same both with my home comp (i586 with Mdk Linux) and my work laptop (i686 with RH 7.1), so this can't be just a random problem.

Amazingly, the nightly build RPMs seem to work just fine.

This is definitely not the first time this happens. I don't know who compiles Mozilla for packaging, but it's obviously not done very well. Problems this obvious (Segfault at startup) don't give a very fancy image of Mozilla.

All packages should be tested at least somehow before distribution.

Re:Hope 1.0 works

[Anonymous Coward]

10's of thousands of people used the 0.9.9 builds without encountering your problem. You don't think that qualifies as somehow testing the product?

Re:Hope 1.0 works

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you should stop relying on crappy RPMs. I built Mozilla 0.9.9 from source on NetBSD, and it works just fine. It has a few minor bugs, but it's very stable. It may have crashed a total of one time since I installed it (March 16), or maybe not at all, I can't remember.

Of course, it took like 10 hours to build, but that's because I did it on my 233 MHz laptop which only has 64 MB RAM. :-)

Re:Hope 1.0 works

[Anonymous Coward]

I updated to 0.9.9 via Ximian's red-carpet and it wouldn't run... although Galeon worked??

I rebooted, and it worked. Go figure... we're getting closer to Windows all the time.

Re:Hope 1.0 works

[kerfax]

I have had strange probe with Mozilla also. (Ive been useing it since 8.1) the 9.99 vr works great on my Linux box, but the win98 ver sucked and crashed on me, I went back to 9.8. I have never had a major Prob w/ any linux ver. But the winblows versions have always been wierd for me. 9.8 is the best for win98 so far, but I use my linux box more.

i have 3 linux boxes:
a) Firewall running RH 7.2 w/2.4.18 kernel with LIDS
b)web server/dtatbase server running Slackware 8.0
also updated kernel 2.4.18 no LIDS
c)Worlstation running RH 7.2 w/2.4.18 and KDE 3.0
I used to use Gnome but the newer QT versions are
much prettier that GTK 1.2. I might switch back when GTK 2.0 comes out and they manage to speed up Nautilus. If i was a prgrammer I would but im not and I do not have the time (unfortunatly) to learn. But I love to use open stuff and my winbox is only used for digital stills and vids and collecting dust.

Anyway Im overal very pleased with Mozilla. ANd the guy a few post back that said he couldn't get flash to work in his ????!!!! Ive never had a pro. Just put the flash plugin in youre /netscape/plugin dir which both the win and linux ver create by default.
the win version has an installer if AI remember correctl, and the linux version you just dnload the the flash.tar file(or whatever it is called) to the plugins dir, unpack it and fore up the browser. Thats it. pretty easy if you ask me....

Re:Hope 1.0 works

[Malc]

Yes, I too found (under Windows) that 0.9.9 was more unstable than 0.9.8. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the odd-numbered builds tended to be more unstable.

Re:Hope 1.0 works

[Sentry21]

Blame your own system. Everyone I know uses Mozilla (tarballs, source, or Win32/MacOS installers), and no one's ever had a problem. Try using the tarballs, or try actualy finding out what the problem is. Maybe you have some binary-incompatible libraries (*ahem*Helix*cough*) kicking around somewhere.

Then again, maybe it's just the way the world works, but it's not like they can test packages on EVERYONE'S computer. Fact is, it's not going to work for some people with weird/messed up systems. Maybe it's just not your day.

--Dan

So close!

[quantaman]

Arrgh! I can't stand the wait! We hit 0.9.9 and I thought, "GREAT! Next time I see Mozilla on /. it will be 1.0!!!!!!". Several Mozilla stories later I see this 1.0 story! Branch closed... Does that mean it's ready? No Moz! Now another 1.0 story with no Mozilla!!
I want my browser! STOP TORTURING US!!!!!

Re:So close!

[pryan]

I've been using Mozilla as my regular browser since the 0.9 series started and have been, for them most part, very happy.

What are you waiting for? Just use 0.9.9 and be happy. It'll only get better from here.

Re:So close!

[psamuels]

What are you waiting for? Just use 0.9.9 and be happy. It'll only get better from here.

He's not impatient waiting for Mozilla 1.0. He's impatient waiting for Slashdot to stop posting stories about the upcoming Mozilla 1.0. Which amounts to the same thing, since that obviously won't happen until Mozilla hits 1.0.

Re:So close!

[FooBarWidget]

They created 1.0RC1 because they wanted 1.0 gold to be as bug-free as possible.
1.0RC1 is likely to be taken more seriously by people (resulting in more testers) than 0.9.10.

Re:So close!

[quantaman]

I do, It rocks. I just keep thinking, If this still 0.9.x what the heck is 1.0 going to be like?

Re:So close!

[quantaman]

Sorry forgot, 0.9.9+

Re:So close!

[4of12]

It rocks. I just keep thinking, If this still 0.9.x what the heck is 1.0 going to be like?

Sheesh, can't you do the math? Subtracting the two suggests that 1.0 can not possibly be more than 10% better than 0.9.x! Since x is currently at 9, we're looking at a 1% improvement!

Seriously, though, I'm composing this on 0.9.9 and I love it. Beats 4.7x all to pieces.

In the cosmology of software development with the 3 coordinates of (features, performance, inverse_bugs), the first is wonderful, the second is wonderful and the third is less than what it was in 4.7x.

I'm wondering if there might still be a performance boost to be seen in 1.0 as the more debug and error checking code is removed, if it is removed.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[irony nazi]

You have never mentioned OmniWeb. I'm convinced that this is the best web browser. Small... light... Integrates smoothly with desktop. What more do you want? All of my Internet Explorer plugins even work with it, by default (even quicktime). In contrast, I'm still trying to figure out how to get flash to work with Mozilla. I'll be a little honest, JavaScript isn't perfect in OmniWeb, but it is there, and it mostly works. The Javascript debug window is much more advanced in OmniWeb than it is in Mozilla.

OmniWeb isn't free (as in speech), but it's darn good, and using the browser of the underdog is a small step towards restoring competition to the marketplace, which is morally good (just like using OSS).

I recommend going to omni's website and trying it out.

God Damn

[Anonymous Coward]

The user IDs people are coming up with 'round here are cracking me up...

First Bank of America ATM, now "Voyager Sucks Ass". LMAO.

Disappointed

[olman]

Ohh, And here I thought we have a RC1 available for download. Dang. Never mind, I didn't realize Mozilla is such big news that /. publishes even plans to have a beta build :-)

I've been using Mozilla starting around .92 and moved toward the point I'm at right now, which is about 95% mozilla and rest for IE. Usually the culprit is some kind of fancy menu-system or dysfunctional scripting gimmick. The important thing is, however, that for majority of the sites Mozilla works just great!

I'm just feeling a little odd about thinking it'd be a good thing to have AOL use Gecko so that we'd get standards-compliant web sites. Who'd have thought of it, AOL as a force for the white hats?

Re:Disappointed

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh my god everybody -- They made a change to line 323 of parse.c! Fuck yeah!

Release Candidates

[IpalindromeI]

Release Candidates are just for final bugfixing before the actual release, correct? Like the freezing process in Debian. So they'll just be stabilizing the code until they think it's ready. This is exciting because it means the 1.0 release can't be more than a few weeks away. It's a big deal because most people don't think of a project as actualized until it hits 1.0, which, let's face, many open source projects don't. If commercial product versions are any measure, Mozilla could probably somewhere above 4 or 5. It's nice to know that the developers have such a high standard for quality that even though it's been an excellent browser for several months now, they just now think it's 1.0 quality. Just think of how much better it can and will get from here. Props to all the Moz developers for such great work. Keep it up!

Re:Release Candidates

[psamuels]

just for final bugfixing before the actual release, correct? Like the freezing process in Debian. [...] it means the 1.0 release can't be more than a few weeks away.

You don't know much about Debian, do you?

if you're adventurous

[Trepidity]

You can always get the nightly builds...

Re:if you're adventurous

[jacobb]

True. And the vast majority are perfect.
BUT the single disaster I had with a nightly was when it nuked my mail settings. I didn't loose any mail, but over 8,000 organized pieces of email ended up just sorted by date in my inbox and my other folders (now empty) were nuked. There were some _wierd_ unexplainable phenomena with bookmarks, too.

Of course, i had backups, but "Once burned, twice shy".
Now, I only download nightlies if they've fixed a bug that either: I reported or I'm on the list for.

Re:if you're adventurous

[DrSkwid]

this is why I use an IMAP server on my LAN. My email clients can change every day and no matter.

and as I use Qmail and Courier all my messages are stored in the filesystem in fodlers too so my filing is preserved across many backups / upgrades / client changes etc. etc.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[McLaLa]

I also remember having some serious problems in the early years, but the wait has been more than worth it. I have been using mozilla as my primary browser since about 0.9.2, and there have been little annoyances etc etc since but the thing has been stable, reliable and most of all the performance is now fantastic.

There are so many nice things about mozilla that make it so much easier and enjoyable to use than any other browser ... probably the most significant thing for me is tabbed browsing man one window multiple web pages, where has this feature been, must admit it makes older versions of netscape and ie seem almost impossible to use.

Another really sweet features of mozilla is UI pleasing to the eye and intuitive to boot, if you don't like it download an alternative theme, don't like any of these roll your own. I know, I know not a new idea but it has been done well.

All in all a fantastic product. Much thanks and much respect to all involved in producing such a great product, and one thats free too :)

/dev/null & /dev/zero

[unixwin]

Er... why don't you su cp /dev/null /etc/passwd and then tell me the difference between /dev/null and /dev/zero.. thanks!

Re:/dev/null & /dev/zero

[Darby]

Er... why don't you su cp /dev/null /etc/passwd and then tell me the difference between /dev/null and /dev/zero.. thanks!

Not knowing the difference, I tried this (with a file called "~/test", *not* /etc/passwd ;-)

using /dev/zero turned it into a 27MB file as quick as I can say ^c
using /dev/null resulted in a blank file as quick as my computer can say [darby@localhost darby]$

So in summary, your (original) method would successfully erase the specified binaries leaving an empty file of the same name as well as the rest of the (now useless) files associated with those applications (I know you were making a joke), whereas the two retarded AC's who tried to correct you would have succeeded in filling their partitions (and probably their entire hard drives since anyone dumb enough to incorrectly correct a correct person is probably dumb enough to use only one partition).

The lesson for today is an old one:
"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" --someone other than me originally

Re:/dev/null & /dev/zero

[Anonymous Coward]

> The lesson for today is an old one:
> "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" --someone other than me originally

I think it was Groucho Marx.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Ace Rimmer]

Too bad that the Linux version has much lower priority than Windows. Some bugs I reported half of year (or even more) still show off - just becouse they're Linux specific. Some others, mostly all platform bugs, have been fixed in a few weeks or months.

Multi Part Porn Messages

[satanami69]

Their mail and newsgroups still do not download the multipart porno for the newsgroups. What's the point of having the a full browser if you can't download porno with it. Hopefully they'll have it solved by 1.0's release. I suppose you can use it with any newsgroup, but really, let's make sure we concentrate on it for the real reasons.

Re:Multi Part Porn Messages

[jesser]

The Mozilla browser is by far the best porn browser, even without the Pornzilla add-ons and the Increment URL bookmarklet.

Re:Multi Part Porn Messages

[Anonymous Coward]

Multi-Part combine/decode is slated for Mozilla 1.2 (No one has started on the code yet)

Re:Multi Part Porn Messages

[Jagasian]

Give me a break! Everyone knows that the web isn't the hardcore way to get porn. USENET, binaries newsgroups are full of porn, and with an intelligent client, you can pull down porn (spam filtered) from your favorite fetish groups at a healthy 1Mbs on ATTBI cable modem. Before the forced switch to ATTBI, I would get something like 3Mbs of piped porn straight to my harddrive.

Now, the real question should be: who needs that much porn, that fast?

its a pity

[Anonymous Coward]

its a pity mozilla didn't align with either KDE or GNOME. In the future only KDE and GNOME will be alive on top of some other graphical layer (DirectFB?) and pure X11 apps like Mozilla and xterm will go away

Re:its a pity

[servo8]

Mozilla uses Gtk+/Gdk under *nix, even though it implements its own toolkit on top of this. Because of this, anywhere Gtk+ goes, mozilla goes.

I am of course completely ignoring the fact that any project that runs on so many OSes could rather easily be ported to a new display layer, Gdk or no.

Re:its a pity

[Anonymous Coward]

You are halucinating. Linux is not the only unix in existance. X (sadly) is probably going to be with us forever now, and if anything 'goes away' it will be one of Gnome/KDE (or, better, both, since they're both dull knock-offs of windows and if they got out of the way and stopped absorbing so much time/effort we might be able to build a decent desktop).

CBDTPA/SSSCA

[Anonymous Coward]

Mozilla lacks the integrated digital rights management hooks found in IE/Media Player. If the CBDTPA/SSSCA passes, Mozilla could very well become an illegal program and any distribution or development of it would result in arrest of the "guilty" parties. If you want Mozilla (and any other non-commercial software) to have a future why not write your Congressman a letter with your opinion on CBDTPA/SSSCA?

I'm not kidding.

Re:CBDTPA/SSSCA

[mattkinabrewmindspri]

When Mozilla is outlawed, only outlaws will have Mozilla.

Re:CBDTPA/SSSCA

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it just me, or does this imply that every single piece of software of any kind whatsoever needs 'integrated digital rights management hooks'?

Re:CBDTPA/SSSCA

[Anonymous Coward]

Not every piece of software, only those that are used to obtain or view content. Go read the actual specs of what Hollywood wants to happen, it's really scary stuff. The browser, the player, and the filesystem would all be required to have closed secure DRM. Hardware would also be required to have DRM so that non Hollywood-compliant OSes wouldn't be able to steal saved data off of the hard drive.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[MSZ]

It's really turned into a great app. Not only is it not playing catch-up with Internet Explorer anymore, but I'd argue that they are beating it with some of its new features like tabbed browsing.

Not so great IMAO... While tabbed browsing is nice, there are definitely two things that are serious problems. First, speed (or rather lack of it), second - "standards compliant" JavaScript aka "incompatible with rest of the world" JavaScript. I still HAVE to use IE because of that.

More Testers!!!

[Screaming Lunatic]

[rant]

[plea for help]

Now is the time to increase the testing effort. Everybody out there, please download the latest nightly build. Get out there and test and submit bugs to Bugzilla.

You can poke fun as much as you want about the release timeline, but these Mozilla guys really work their asses off to get this product out to you at no charge. The least we can do as part of the open source community is help out by testing.

[/plea for help]

[/rant]

PK

P.S. Posted using April 9th Mozilla nightly build. A testament to how well it works and the stability of the nightly builds. I install a nightly build almost every morning and never had to revert back to using an older build because something major was broken. I always install the Linux tarballs, but of course YMMV for other platforms and installation methods. But I don't expect anything would be different for the Windoze and Mac builds.

Re:More Testers!!!

[Kunta Kinte]

I am not sending anymore bug reports to mozilla.

Not that I don't appreciated this great product, but I am tired of sending bug reports and being ignored.

I run nightlies, and before I use to run my own CVS builds that I built every 2 to 3 days. I even ran mozilla under gdb at *all* times. It was a bit slower but I did not mind, because I thought I was helping out.

I would send in detailed bug reports with websites and stackstraces for crashers. I am reasonabley familiar with gdb.

Then I realized that that a lot of the bugs were just be ignored. I had one crasher label simpley "can not reproduce". He could not reproduce it because after waiting a month or 2 to check the offending site out, the site had moved! But wait, I had included a full backstrace, but that did not seem to matter. I know the guys are busy, but still!

After a few of those, I just said screw that. I'm not wasting my time.

It's not only me. The most voted mozilla bug for months maybe years running is futured. The 'view source of dynamic pages' bug. One full time developer said 'it did not affect enough people'. Um, yeah that's why it has more votes then any other bug by far.

Re:More Testers!!!

[asa]

You've not been paying much attention lately. It's fixed.

--Asa

Re:More Testers!!!

[cafelatte]

Please don't be annoyed by this. Remember that there are so many testers out there already. That's the beauty of the open-source community. I would prefer you to be thankful for the fact that there are so many bug reports out there and that you're not one of only a few testers. We (the rest of the community) are thankful for your professional approach. You said "I'm not wasting my time". If you have little spare time like most of us you shouldn't be testing software and reporting bugs. Instead, do what I do, just use the latest stable release or milestone. I onced reported bugs and it was quite tedious. Most of the bugs I've submitted have been resolved or marked as a duplicate. But it was still worth the effort, knowing that I, one of the millions of testers, have played my part. A small part to play is enough when you have many testers.

Re:More Testers!!!

[wedg]

I install a nightly build almost every morning and never had to revert back to using an older build because something major was broken...
But I don't expect anything would be different for the Windoze and Mac builds.

I had problems with the nightly builds for about 3 days with my windows box... it wouldn't render more than just the frame. Not sure what was wrong. But it worked perfectly afterwards - I even noticed it was a little bit faster/smoother, and a few of the small kinks had been worked out (crashing going to certain sites).

Re:More Testers!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

lies, dam lies.

" install a nightly build almost every morning and never had to revert back to using an older build because something major was broken"

Seriously I'm a moz supporter to, but really.
Major things have broken several times in the nightlies. Not long ago the mail component was fubared and I had to go to an older version so that I could get my inbox back.

People should only use a nightly if they are aware it is considered beta/unstable. Granted I haven't had many problems, but I hate if I had lost some important email in the name of testing.

.9.9.9.9.9.9.9.9.9.9.9.9.9.9 is awesome enough

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't care when 1.0 is out, how diffrent can it bee?

The only bug I hayte is when I try to minimize the browser window it goes to the taskbar and then pops back up again...it resists me!!

That and the fact that it won't let me type in text in the address bar, and forms under some situations where there are many windows open. Not a hyooge problem, can live with it.

Why I will never use IE:

POPUPS!

NO SKINS

NO Cookie control/cleaning support (Gotta keep the fbi and cia from planting 10 year cookies on my private property)

NO TABS! (Why the hell did I just find out about tabs?) No tabs, no browser. IE sucks.

To sum up I give Mozilla a rating of 9 penguins out of 10.

IE? Won't rate it...not a real browser...I hope Apple and Open Source kick the shit outta Microsoft.

Later!

Will

Mozilla Clash

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sorry, but anything that takes 4 solid years is not "rockin'"

It's about as "rockin'" as a Volvo.

Or Grandma's vulva.

Interesting release tree

[Dr. Spork]

It appears from the roadmap that they plan to fork development after 1.0 into two branches, one for further stabilizing 1.0 and one for adding features, leading to 1.1.

The strange result is that 1.0.3 is scheduled to be released about a month after the final 1.1. Are they really planning something huge for the 1.1 branch that they don't trust themselves to re-merge the tree? I guess there is precedent for this, with Netscape 4.08 being released after the 4.5 releases were well on their way. Also, it seems that this is how Linux kernel releases work, with 2.2 still being maintained after the release of 2.4. Still, this is a new policy for Mozilla.

Re:Interesting release tree

[asa]

The Mozilla 1.0 branch is planned as a long-lived stability branch with minimal or no new features. Folks looking for a stable and slower-moving codebase on which to build other applications should have an easier time tracking the 1.0 branch than the fast and furius trunk which will be taking features and other destabilizing changes on the road to Mozilla 2.0.

--Asa

Re:Interesting release tree

[10sball]

Want precident? The Netscape 4.x branch is /still/ getting security & stability patches. And Netscape still does work on a 0.9.4 branch for their N6.2.x product.

Re:Interesting release tree

[Dr. Spork]

I see. This seems like a good policy, given all the various "Spawn of Mozilla" projects around. The roadmap doesn't say much about the work planned for 1.1 and eventually 2.0. Are you free to talk about that? From the look of the tree, work on that branch has already begun.

I don't know why we all want to look over your shoulder as you code. I hope you don't find it too annoying. This reminds me a bit of the Monty Python sketch where they had a live broadcast of a famous author composing his eighth novel, complete with "expert" play-by-play commentary.

The real reason why we care so much is because we love you guys, and ofen spend hours at the mercy of your code (which has recently treated us well). And thank you for staying in touch with the community that relies on your work!

Re:Interesting release tree

[BZ]

> The roadmap doesn't say much about the work
> planned for 1.1 and eventually 2.0

Well, for example there is this "rewrite all of reflow" patch that waterson, jkeiser, and shaver are working on... :)

There's also a whole slew of fixes to the helper app subsystem that should be landing in the next two to three months (Bill Law has a big XP patch and I'll be rewriting a lot of the Linux code in the wake of that to make it deal better with mailcap files).

I'm sure there are other things I just don't know about.

Cool.

[Anonymous Coward]

Now by the time my current copy of Mozilla 0.9.9 starts up, 1.0 will be released.

Re:Cool.

[Anonymous Coward]

Now by the time my current copy of Mozilla 0.9.9 starts up, 1.0 will be released.

..., installed and started.

But that's progress, I guess.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Jonny 290]

[snip]While tabbed browsing is nice[/snip]

I'd much rather hammer on the alt-tab combo to get to the window I want (I usually have about 8 browsers open, but am actively switching between two to four) and keeping my left hand on the KB for CTRL+V/CTRL/C than fuddling around with browser tabs.

that is all folks. Re:Stable API

[Anonymous Coward]

1.0 is only 1.0 because the api is frozen. Not because it is finished. Not because is is completely stable, not because all bugs are solved. It is 1.0 so (other vendors) have a generic platform to work on.

DHTML performance issues?

[gusnz]

First off, kudos to the Mozilla project team for getting this far... it's shaping up to be an excellent browser especially once you count the security track record of the opposition.

One question I have as a DHTML web designer, is that will v1.0 fix the DHTML timing issues? The v0.98 changelog indicated that "DHTML performance has regressed", which I can verify is putting it lightly -- one of my animations that revealed a DIV via clipping worked fluidly in Moz 0.97 and hardly at all in Moz 0.99, which still hasn't patched it. Check out the "Popup Menu v5" script on my homepage on a slower computer if you want to see what I mean.

A quick search of Bugzilla reveals some articles also mentioning this issue. Does anyone know what plans are afoot to improve this?

I hope DHTML performance improves before this tree is used for another NS6 or AOL browser release, as otherwise it could render some of the more technically involved sites unviewable. If anyone's more involved in Bugzilla than I and knows the bug ID that most work is going into, please post a link to vote for it, otherwise try this one :).

Apart from that, I'm finding new Mozilla releases to be strides above the versions this time last year. Hopefully once fully mature it'll be the cross-platform web page development environment of choice... that's one area in which IE can never beat it, with the huge differences between IE on Windows and Mac.

More power to the lizard!

Re:DHTML performance issues?

[xutopia]

try poppuing overflow:hidden; in your scroller. Sped up a similar script considerably. When the browser scroll has to update every time you move your scroller it take more time.

Re:DHTML performance issues?

[hiroko]

There is a big fix for DHTML performance that, while working well, is too big a risk this close to 1.0 (tracking bug #21762) so is currently targeted at 1.0.1.

Re:DHTML performance issues?

[9633]

Mozilla is open source, why don't you help fix it?

Re:DHTML performance issues?

[wedg]

One question I have as a DHTML web designer, is that will v1.0 fix the DHTML timing issues?

Download the nightly build and see if they've fixed it yet.

Qt?

[glwtta]

I've heard something about the possiblity to compile Mozilla to use Qt - anyone have experience with that? And if it does work, does that mean that if I switch to Mozilla, my browser will finally look as sweet as the rest of KDE (with Mosfet's Liquid engine)? Oh, Konqueror, just doesn't do it for me functionality wise.

Re:Qt?

[LinuxGeek8]

You can find it here:
Qt-mozilla

inspirired by linux.Re:It figures....

[leuk_he]

This is because linux also started with the 0.9x series. But as developers reach the conclusion their products still has bugs and never has the impact of linux they never want to call it finished "1.0".

And the next software project is always more interesting as the current one. Finishing a software product is a lot of work and not always fun.

Mozillia Killer App

[Quirk]

Mozillia is the killer app that has to challenge MS (IE) on the desktop. Open Source/ FS lives on the net and I would guess that the browser is second only to an e-mail app as the most used piece of software. Mozillia is the marque to advertise OS. So get behind it. :)

Re:Mozillia Killer App

[matze235]

Mozilla is also available for Windows so I don't know why this is a reason to switch to Unix/Linux

Re:Mozillia Killer App

[Quirk]

I posted a reply which seems to have gotten lost. I was speaking in marketing terms where brand name has more to do with market pull than the underlying reality. If we can make Mozillia a prevalent user alternative on a Windows platform then it is more likely, in my view, that users who have no understanding Operating Systems will more easily be swayed to trust GNU/Linux because they trust/like Mozillia on Windows. It really was a rah rah post off the cuff but I agree I didn't adequately express the marketing aspect.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Anonymous Coward]

OmniWeb has a JS debugger better than Venkman? Got a link to documentation for this?

May 1

[hey]

According to the diagram, 1.0 should be released
around 2002 May 1. Or did I read it wrong?

To propagate the religious 'theme'.

[ringbarer]

I can envision RMS inheriting the role of one of those child abusing Catholic Priests quite easily.

Thanks Mozilla Team!

[Futurepower(R)]

Heartfelt thanks for Mozilla. I'm using version .99 as I write this.

When I have needed standards compliance in the past, I have often been forced to use software supplied by people I don't trust. I am happy to have Mozilla as an alternative.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not use the keyboard accelerators for switching tabs then so you don't have to use the mouse? Ctrl-PhUp and Ctrl-PgDn by default I believe.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[logicnazi]

This is why real companies don't release pre-1.0 products to the general public. Think how buggy your favorite piece of software is and imagine what people would think if they saw something before even the final codefreeze.

CmdrTaco (editor) is a troll, and not CmdrTaco.

[Futurepower(R)]

Everyone: Note that the parent post is from CmdrTaco (editor), not CmdrTaco. The first person is a troll, the second is the real guy.

Re:CmdrTaco (editor) is a troll, and not CmdrTaco.

[psamuels]

The first person is a troll, the second is the real guy.

Yeah, if (pw_uid != 1)) { printf("%s is an imposter", pw_gecos); }

Re:CmdrTaco (editor) is a troll, and not CmdrTaco.

[Ralph Malph Alpha]

OH my WORD, you are SUCH a FAG. Turn around, I like to play a special game with MEN like YOU.

Re:CmdrTaco (editor) is a troll, and not CmdrTaco.

[Anonymous Coward]

The first person is a troll, the second is the real guy.

I'm not sure what you mean... are you trying to say that the real CmdrTaco isn't the editor of Slashdot, but that the editor of Slashdot is a troll?

HICK.ORG: It's Fantastical.

[Anonymous Coward]

Necrophilia for Dummies

I: Introduction

Very few text files have been written regarding the sexual tendencies and practices of necrophiliacs. While most people would prefer to believe that we do not exis
t we most certainly do as is obvious to anyone who visits a cemetery during our nightly rampages. Necrophiliacs prefer to go about their business alone; sharing is
not a part of this alternative lifestyle as the corpse usually wears out fairly quickly. This is not to say that the occasional orgy involving four or five necrop
hiliacs and about a dozen or so corpses does not occur, but it is very rare. In this file I will describe common (and some uncommon) techniques which necrophiliacs
use to gain satisfaction from their stiff partners. Hopefully these vivid descriptions will encourage you to go out to your local cemetery and to join our ranks!

II: Finding a partner

Finding a partner for your necrophiliac activities is definitely the hardest part. You not only have to gain access to the corpse but you also have to find one whi
ch suits your tastes. Granted, some necrophiliacs would screw roadkill if given the chance but most of us are more discriminating. Your chances depend upon where y
ou pick up your date. If you have access to a morgue it would definitely be your best bet as the corpses there are usually the freshest and have not yet been treat
ed for burial. They may be a bit chilly because they've been lying in the meat locker for days but that really shouldn't make a big difference to the determined ne
crophiliac. Cemeteries are a bit harder to deal with as finding a screwable corpse is harder to do. However, if you know how to interpret signs this shouldn't be a
problem. If a grave consists of a mound of fresh dirt and is covered with flowers, chances are that the stiff hasn't been laying here for too long. Rotting flower
s on the mound usually hint to the state of the corpse as well. Some people are exclusively into 'porking the bone', i.e. sex with skeletons. In this case you can
dig up almost any grave and hope that the inhabitant hasn't yet disintegrated into dust. Try to scope out a fairly secluded cemetery for your passions unless you l
ike a sense of danger to go along with the sex. Having anyone catch you in the act is NOT fun, and if you're picked up by a cop chances are that you won't be able
to screw anything but Bubba behind bars for the next few decades. People are generally not understanding of the necrophiliac lifestyle, so it will probably be a lo
ng time before we can come out of the closet.

III: Preparation

Depending upon where you are at this point you'll have either a little or a lot of work to do. The person in the morgue will obviously have to do little more than
to open the locker, pull the corpse out and bang away. If you're one of the cemetery people you'll have more work to do. An experienced necrophiliac is always equi
pped with the bare essentials: a shovel, Vaseline and a box of rubbers. Why the shovel is needed should be obvious, but if the ground is hard then you might need m
ore equipment to dig up your date. Vaseline is used to loosen the corpse up a bit. This makes it less likely for a body part to break off while you're having fun a
nd it also prevents your mantool from becoming too irritated while screwing the dried out pussy. The BOX of condoms is used to play it safe; no necrophiliac should
be without it. You never know which STDs your partner had during his/her lifetime, and believe me, it doesn't get any better after the person dies. You can put on
more than one rubber for extra protection if it is warranted, but screwing a corpse without protection is just plain stupid unless you want to be the next date fo
r a necrophiliac. If you're in a cemetery try to drag the corpse out of the grave and behind a bush or to another secluded place. Pumping away in the grave may see
m more convenient, but it's a severe disadvantage to you if you need to take off in a hurry. Sometimes the corpse is too fragile to be moved; in that case make it
fast. Or just break off the head, hand or lower torso and take it with you for added convenience.

Note from the pixel fairy: This is where i must warn you! Vaseline dissolves latex, meaning it will eat through your or dead-boy's condom. Use KY Jelly or anything
else that's not oil-based.

Part IV: Techniques

So now you've got a stiff lying seductively in front of you, but you have no idea how to start. How you proceed from this point onward really depends upon what kin
d of person you are. The corpse will last longer if you treat it gently and with care, but if you prefer to go all out you'll probably receive greater satisfaction
. There are many differences between screwing a live and a dead person which one needs to be aware of. Firstly, a corpse will never tell you to get off of it if yo
u're being a bit rough and it will never complain no matter what kinky sexual practices you use it for. Screwing a corpse is also much more predictable because you
can raise an arm, leg or whatever and it will still be in that position when you reach for it again. Take the arms and gently lock them in an embrace behind your
back, or spread the legs to make sex a bit easier. If you want a great blowjob then lubricate your partner's mouth, lock it to your preferred width, insert and go
for it. Although there's no tongue stimulation it's still worthwhile, and it's also safer than conventional sex. Corpses can also be recycled if treated properly.
If you're a proficient embalmer you can keep a corpse for over five years if it has been properly embalmed. That's free sex whenever you want it! You naturally don
't want to be too rough with an embalmed corpse though as they are more fragile. One final advantage of screwing corpses is that they are always in abundance. Base
d upon your sexual preferences you can designate a cemetery or a morgue as your territory and always find fresh partners to screw. Plus you don't have to resort to
cheesy pickup lines or spend all your money in order to get a date. necrophiliac is a passion which is cheaply satisfied.

Note from the pixel fairy: Necrophilia is not so cheaply enjoyed unless you already have such direct access.

V. Conclusion

I hope that this text file will encourage you to go out and try necrophilia. Not many people do it, but that's precisely what makes it so much fun; it makes you fe
el special! If no living person would touch you with a 10 foot pole then try having sex with a corpse! Some of them are real beauties and it's an experience you'll
never forget. There is no greater experience for a virgin than having his/her virginity taken by a corpse. Anyways, have fun and if you have any experiences you'd
like to share then by all means do! Maybe necrophilia will enter the mainstream because of your efforts.

http://www.dms100.org/worksucks

[Anonymous Coward]

Mozilla 1.0 just released.. click here for details!

Simple Answer

[jacobb]

Always go to the Roadmap for this type of information. In the past, it lagged seriously but it's kept pretty much up to date these days.

You can find the link on the mozilla site by following the home page to the Mozilla 0.9.9 link (it's updated with every release, always in the same position) that points to the Releases page. Then, just above the [bold,italic] export notice, you'll see the roadmap link. Scroll down and you'll see a cool graphic, near which there's a grayish table with the tentative schedule for the near future - with all sorts of cool "insider"-type info & dates.

Cheers. And know that 0.9.9 is almost perfectly fine, and you don't really need to wait for 1.0. I've never had a crash or even a problem since way back when (0.9.3-ish)

Mozilla has NEVER been on the same page!

[ringbarer]

If it were, don't you think they would have released a stable browser by now? The contempt of the @netscape.com developers for the common user has been documented repeatedly.

They KNOW they've lost to IE, so they're doing their best to turn Mozilla into their pet little 'geek toy', throwing in useless shit like XUL when even the most rudimentary user requirements would involve, as you say, Anti-Aliased fonts, or even the ability to Combine and Decode multi-part UUencoded Newsgroup postings.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone comes along, takes the Mozilla source code, bothers LISTENING to the end user (a demographic representing a far greater population percentage than the programmers), and packages a low cost (say $5, or even advertising sponsored) version with all the changes that users NEED to get things done. Thus making a profit whilst all the 'geekier than thou' OSS coders rot in poverty.

OSS Programmers, who CHOOSE to work for free, remind me of the horse Boxer in Animal Farm. (Not the porn, the book. Orwell. Y'know.) For the entirety their life they toil, holding faith in the leftist propaganda they've been fed. Occasionally, they are given some kind of 'award', which serves no more than an incentive to keep working. In the end, when they have outlived their usefulness, they are ruthlessly packed off to the glue factory while the ruling elite profit from their work.

Notice, with the advent of the next wave of Linux software, that the mantra of "Open Source Good. Closed Source Bad." has become "Open Source Good. Closed Source BETTER."

Of course, it has always been this way, hasn't it?

Re:Mozilla has NEVER been on the same page!

[corps_inc]

Man, you gotta work for M$. If some people like me are linux zealots, they you're M$ emplyee

Re:Mozilla has NEVER been on the same page!

[FooBarWidget]

Nope. Mozilla isn't trying to compete with IE, and therebefore Mozilla cannot "lose".
They don't do this to fight IE so that you can whine about them losing the war.
They do this to create a good, cross-platform browser and development platform that everybody who *wants* to use it, can use it, and not to kill IE.

Re:Mozilla has NEVER been on the same page!

[arkane1234]

Wow, you sure are bittered by something. Have you been taking your medication?

Open source developers are not people who sit around all day long (well... most don't lol) and code for free. They merely donate their time, or if they are lucky enough to work for a company thats sponsoring an OSS project, they do it there. Open source software doesn't care how closed source software is doing... it just naturally progresses along as more people add their thoughts to the code, whether it's optimizations or functionality. I for one use Mozilla as my primary browser, and enjoy everything they have done. One of the smartest things that they did was take java completely out of the browser and let sun take care of it with SunSpot, the java plugin.

Free Software/Open Source Paradoxical

[Anonymous Coward]

FS/OS cannot be viable in the longrun, sorry. I want to believe in FS/OS as a solution to MS and AOL/TimeWarner, but it ain't gonna happen.

Quality Software (including browsers) take enormous amounts of time and research to make. Only if people's time is not valuable or scarce, would FS/OS be a working model. Now that would be possible if the US Government didn't devalue its currency, stick its hands into people's pockets to pay bankers who "sell" us our dollars after printing them, and confiscate american families wealth (like it began doing by confiscating people's gold in 1945).

But since 95% of people spend their time working to support their houses that they down own and probably will never own outright and paying bankers with their tax dollars, nobody has the time to write quality software. They want money!

I say people should start contributing money to projects like mozilla, Apple, Free Software, and Open Source projects if you want to see them survive. The internet needs to shift to a patronage system (instead of ads) and people need and should feel the need to contribute to major projects if they have clearly benefitted from it.

Dr. Williams

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Tuqui]

> Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happen

Me too.

> Starting with version 0.9.8, I finally switched fully over to Mozilla.

Me too.

I hadn't see the IE icon for 3 months ago. Great Mozilla Dev.s!

WARNING: ABOVE LINK IS A DMS100.ORG LINK.

[Anonymous Coward]

That link really directs you to the evil dms100.org/worksucks

know what doesnt depend on a fucking processor?

[Voyager Sucks Ass]

The fact that Star Trek: Voyager sucks ass, every fucking time it comes on the goddamn TV. When that shit starts, it makes me want to beat my girlfriend more than I already do.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Bert64]

Tabs are only a different workspace containing your browser display, a window manager designed/configured to give a tab-style effect could be just the same. It`s a pity the more innovative window managers are often overlooked in favour of plain "straight sides and a title bar" window managers.

Mozilla Bugged

[Trestop]

Although it matured in to a very nice browser, with very good standard compliance, there are still many anoying bugs - the ones which I find most anoying, and especially anoying as I don't think they get the attention they require, are the BiDi bugs. for a standard compliance aiming browser, the Mozilla developers have sure neglected to pay attention to an important part of an important standard - Unicode.
Now, I'm not saying that Mozilla does not do BiDi - it's just that the bugs in the BiDi implementation are so severe as to make Mozilla completly unsuable to anyone who reads and writes a complex script language. most notable are the "text selction" bugs which makes copying and pasting from pages that contain complex scripts impossible, and worse - the BiDi text input bug which causes Mozilla to spontaneusly crash when entering text in (for example) the text area boxes of weblogs.
The most infuriating thing about this, is that the serious BiDi bugs resolution dates have been postponed to later and later milestones, and now, as those are marked nsBeta1 (meaning - fixes to be submitted before 1.0 released), the source tree still has no fixes in sight, and I'm starting to doubt if we will see Mozilla as a competing browser to IE on the 'end user's' desktop - even after 1.0.

see bugs :
95228
82352
125546
112101
75011

Re:Mozilla Bugged

[IamTheRealMike]

I believe the BiDi code was contributed by IBM, though I'm not sure if they still maintain it.

Re:Mozilla Bugged

[Anonymous Coward]

When I click one of those links I get a white page with the following text:

"Sorry, links to Bugzilla from Slashdot are disabled."

Obviously, the Bugzilla guys doesn't like to be /.ed :-)

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Bert64]

On linux/i386 it`s a case of copying the libflashplugin.so to mozilla/plugins, wherever you installed mozilla. On windows its a case of running the installer and it works out where to put it. Netscape plugins seem to work just fine in mozilla.. However it would be usefull to have flash plugins for some of the os/hardware combinations not supported by macromedia.

Doesn't work over X

[KidSock]

Can someone please tell me how to get it to work over X. I can't believe they're calling it "solid" and "fast" when it doesn't even paint the display over eXceed. I get nothing but a black display area on any reasonably long page.

Re:Doesn't work over X

[Anonymous Coward]

I've run it successfully using the same setup. I don't know what your problem is, but it doesn't effect everyone.

Re:Doesn't work over X

[jcupitt65]

Hi, works fine for me across machines. I think it must be a problem with your X server. Maybe try a newer eXceed? Or one of the free xf86 win servers?

John

Re:Doesn't work over X

[Anonymous Coward]

I filled bug 108018 a long time ago but this is the first time I see someone else with the same problem.

There is no progress at all because nobody seems to be using Exceed in the mozilla team.

Can you confirm the bug in http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108018 ?

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree, OmniWeb is an excellent lightweight browser. Especially considering that the entire development team consists of two part-time engineers!

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Anonymous Coward]

And while they are a bit behind schedule. 4 years for a 1.0 doesn't sound bad when you realize that this is a .0 that means something, as opposed to most commercial vendors (and a lot of OS projects) that usually wait until 3.x to begin getting things right.

Bah, that's nothing! I mean, one rather popular OS I know of got up to about 98 until they decided to rewrite the whole thing from scratch again because it wasn't any good. This one eventually got usable around 2000!

Re: 1.0

[ism]

Considering something like Napster never broke out of beta, this 1.0 is definitely more meaningful.

Open Source Zealot of the year

[Anonymous Coward]

You should run in the Open Source Fanatic competition in 2000. With that one, there would not have been a competition. You would won it straight away.

Windows 2000 and WinXP are perfectly good operating systems these days. I prefer using Linux at home but at work, where I need to get things done quickly out-of-box and not after tweaking the OS for hours and having to read obscure FAQs and HOWTOs on how to get a standard piece of hardware working on Linux, using Windows is simply the best alternative. Microsoft Office documents are also such a standard way of communicating with the clients that a non-Windows environment is a practical impossibility.

Or do you really believe RMS' crap about how using closed source is wrong??

Re:Open Source Zealot of the year

[swirlyhead]

Or do you really believe RMS' crap about how using closed source is wrong??

Yes!

But then I have a strong sense of morality and ethics. And I understand that my actions do affect the world I live in now and the one I will live in in the future.

I also think that public service is a worthy calling and that money is not the be all end all of my participation in society. Childish whiners who grew up on a diet off Rush Limbaugh and Ayn Rand may call me crazy; I prefer to think of myself as civilised.

Re:Open Source Zealot of the year

[Ralph Malph Alpha]

You mispelt "civilized", you illiterate twit.

Re:Open Source Zealot of the year

[Dehumanizer]

Fanatic, me? I use Windows 2000 at home for games, almost daily.

But it completely SUCKS as a serious OS. For development, for running servers on, heck, even as a simple desktop for ssh'ing other servers.

Windows is not pleasant to use, for my tastes. And I have a lot less control over it than I want. It seems the OS is fighting me, sometimes - things that should be simple, aren't. Yes, I mean it. There's nothing in Linux as complex and cryptic as... (deep voice) the Registry.

It's simple: I won't do something I don't believe in. Windows systems administration is... wrong. I have lots of Windows sysadmins working with me, and they *never* seem happy about, or proud of, what they do. Yes, they earn their money as much as I do, but they don't like their jobs. I do.

Besides (but this is completely independent), I do believe "RMS' crap". I don't agree with every single thing he says, but freedom *is* important. Open Source gives me control; proprietary crap takes it away.

Re:Open Source Zealot of the year

[Salsaman]

'Civilised' is spelt perfectly correctly. It's only you 'uncivilized' Americans who spell it wrong.

Re:Open Source Zealot of the year

[Ralph Malph Alpha]

I believe we had a deal, sir. You agreed to give me daily blowjobs, and I would mod you up every time I had points.

Well, where were my blowjobs, sir? Where was your head?

Re:Open Source Zealot of the year

[Dehumanizer]

Uh... I agree with you about Free Software, but don't compare Ayn Rand to Rush Limbaugh. Rand is right about a lot of things - individualism, the pursuit of one's happiness (and not "money", per se), the use of reason, and not being a slave to, or dependent of, society.

She was NOT a "conservative", no matter how much they want to say she was.

Re:Open Source Zealot of the year

[psamuels]

'Civilised' is spelt perfectly correctly. It's only you 'uncivilized' Americans who spell it wrong.

And not all of us. I've mostly switched to the North Sea point of view for S vs Z words. I dunno, the Z seems harsh, somehow. Using an S just seems more, well, civilised.

(I still don't put the U in "flavour", though.)

Re:Open Source Zealot of the year

[virve]

'Civilised' is spelt perfectly correctly. It's only you 'uncivilized' Americans who spell it wrong.

Not according to the Oxford English Dictionary. The 's'-forms comes from French words.
In fact, the 'British' ispell dictionary is useless precisely because of these 's' vs. 'z' errors.

Re:Open Source Zealot of the year

[Anonymous Coward]

I like Linux. It is the best. I think that everyone should use Linux. I hope Mozilla 1.0 is a good as Linux.

Re:Open Source Zealot of the year

[Anonymous Coward]

I did try, I couldn't find a penis between your legs though.

Re:Open Source Zealot of the year

[Ralph Malph Alpha]

Obviously, sir, it was obstructed from your view by the rolls of fat surrounding your mother's kike cunt.

Re:Open Source Zealot of the year

[Anonymous Coward]

But then I have a strong sense of morality and ethics.And I understand that my actions do affect the world I live in now and the one I will live in in the future.
Bull! If your morality about the future was so strong you would not be using a computer because of the harm they cause the the environment-the pollution from all the chemicals used in manufacturing, the energy used to operate it, then the space they take up in a landfill a few years down the road, just to mention a few of the problems they cause.

If you were so concerned about the future as you say you are in the words you type then you'd be living up in the mountains somewhere planting trees living off the land,being one with nature, instead of destroying it.

Re:Open Source Zealot of the year

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you see, Britain is a third world dirtbag shithole of a country. Therefore 'civilised' is the incorrect spelling in ANY country.

Mail & News still have a ways to go... :(

[cjsnell]

I'm stoked about 1.0. I think the browser is solid as hell.

HOWEVER, the included Mail and Newsgroup app has a LONG way to go. There are many, many outstanding (and often show-stopping) bugs with the Mail reader.

I have been testing it recently with the hopes of deploying it throughout our company as the standard mail client. The Windows version is horribly broken. It often hangs upon startup and you cannot print many messages without first double-clicking them and opening them up in their own windows, and printing from these. For kicks, I tried the test with several different builds (including 0.99rel) on several different computers. Same results all around. Our mail server runs Courier IMAP and works great with every other mail client I've used (Pine, Mac OS X Mail.app, SquirrelMail, Mulberry, Eudora, Netscape 4.x, etc., etc.)

Re:Mail & News still have a ways to go... :(

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm "glad" to see someone talk about his problem. As far as the browser is concerned, mozilla is indeed a great app. But when it comes to Mail, the picture is not the same.

In our environment (Solaris 7 system, and locally build 0.9.x source), the Mail app is not really usable in a production environment. Bugs in the interface, problems with attachments, lost mails, ...

I hate to say that, but every people who tried migrating from Netscape to Mozilla for the mail here, switched back to Netscape 4.7 :(

So I wonder how it will be in 1.0...

Re:Mail & News still have a ways to go... :(

[Anonymous Coward]

I use Mozilla Mail on W95,W98,W2000, linux and mac since 0.94. No problem.
My server is Courier IMAP as yours.

All things works great . Never lose any mail or attachment.

Re:Mail & News still have a ways to go... :(

[thesolo]

you cannot print many messages without first double-clicking them and opening them up in their own windows, and printing from these.

FYI (and I just double-checked this on .99), you can right-click inside the message and choose print to print the email. Not a perfect solution, but it is much more workable than opening every single email in its own window.

Other than that, I honestly have not had too many problems with Mozilla Mail. Starting with .98, most of the major problems I was having ceased, and .99 fixed the ones that were bugging me in .98.

You're right, it does have a long way to go, but the entire suite of apps is moving along very nicely, and I'll keep using it for as long as they keep releasing it.

Re:Mail & News still have a ways to go... :(

[Malc]

Mail and news is the only reason I still use Netscape 4.x. I'm waiting for the Mozilla mail client to become reliable enough that I can ditch Netscape altogether. Unfortunately, it's one of those things that is important enough that I'm not prepared to use and thus thoroughly test until I feel confident that data loss (even if that's just the message I've been typing for the last 30 minutes) isn't a big concern.

Re:Mail & News still have a ways to go... :(

[xenoc_1]

you can right-click inside the message and choose print to print the email.

Heck, you can just select the message headers in the mailbox list (not even preview them), right-click, and print. Just proved it on 0.9.9+ 2002041003 build. What more do you need for printing?

what compiler do they use for Win32

[Pr0xY]

just out of curiosity, what compielr do they use for the Win32 builds? I mean I would guess VC++ 6.0.

The reason i ask is that i recently upgraded to Visual Studio .NET (quite nice i might add) and the new optimizing technologies in there are amazing. My NES emulator gained an extra 100 FPS just from a simple recompile with new compiler. Could Mozilla for Win32 gain even better performance if they compiled it with VS .NET C++ compiler?

Re:what compiler do they use for Win32

[Anonymous Coward]

So why don't you download the source from the CVS tree and compile it in .NET C++ and see if it does increase performance.

What kind of optimizing technologies are there in this .NET compiler for C++? Maybe Microsoft just changed the defaults from no-optimization/debug build to a high level of optimization so you NES code compiles smaller / faster.

Re:what compiler do they use for Win32

[WhiteKnight07]

You do of course realize that what you say is blasphemy in one of its worse forms.

Re:what compiler do they use for Win32

[Anonymous Coward]

Visual Studio .NET's EULA explicitly forbids GPL-type projects. :(

Re:what compiler do they use for Win32

[Pr0xY]

No I definitely had optimizations on with VS 6.0. The primary difference is they have a new "Full Program" Optimization which is optimizations that span multiple object files. Normally compilers only work with 1 object file at a time, so they cant make too many optimizations involving code that involves a lot of object files. Microsofts new technique does more optimization in a phase after linking...it is quite impressive.

Re:what compiler do they use for Win32

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes but as long as your mom still lets me give it to her up the ass at least once a week I don't care.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[DrSkwid]

I write javascript apps and big ones at that not just mouseovers and the like.

Since 0.98 I priomarily use Mozilla as my development browser and then do the IE specific stuff afterwards.

I have found that it's IE's javascript that is the most annoying of the two.

And Opera's is just annoying "left hand side of line xxx can not be assigned to" yawn

FreeBSD binary

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish they'd provide a FreeBSD binary or if
they already do, a more prominent link to it
in the front page. FreeBSD is just too important
not to generate binaries for it.

Re:FreeBSD binary

[boltar]

Agreed there should be native binaries for it but
I guess theres always the source-compile option
or failing that the linux binary should run on
FreeBSD.

Re:FreeBSD binary

[Strog]

Just watch the release page. They will get the binaries out if you give them a little time. They release Linux, Win32 and Mac right away and volunteers build the rest.

I'm building a release for Commodore 128 right now. I'll have a fresh M18 milestone release soon. That was long build time. I'll go get some coffee now and see if this is funny still.

Fix more bugs!

[MadEagle]

You might be right about this but if IMO fundamental bugs are not fixed (for example this one, which is around for almost ONE YEAR now) I don't see a point in creating more bugs. I really like to help but my programming skills are far from being good enough to understand and patch the code so my only way of helping is submitting bugs. But if those bugs are not fixed ... where is the point?

MadEagle

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[starvingartist12]

OmniWeb was tested for its claim for web standards compatibility at A List Apart.

Basically they though it had great promise, but had a "long way to go before it can live up to its developers' claims to any sort of useful or meaningful CSS and DOM support."

History?

[Mourice]

Does anyone know when the Mozilla project officially began? I've heard reports that it started as early as 1988, others say 1992.

I've only been using it since version 0.7.5 (or so), so I am really unsure how long it's been. I know it's been in development for a long time, but 13 years? That sounds like my speed of work. (I've been working on mod for Deus Ex for 6 months, and am only now to the version 0.0.17.)

I didn't have any luck finding this online, so if anyone knows, pass it along.

Re:History?

[Mourice]

By the way, I love Mozilla. I think it's faster than Netscape, but more reliable than Opera. (And screw IE and its users)

I really had wished that Bezilla (Mozilla for BeOS) had become more mature before Be died. I would've absolutely loved to see a browser that full-featured on an OS that full-featured.

Oh, well. It feels cathartic to talk about it. I'm still in mourning over Be.

Re:History?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mozilla started out as an open source project in 1998. They released the code to a whole lot of hoopla, and people everywhere thought it was the greatest thing ever. Internet Explorer was starting to beat Netscape handily in terms of features and stability on the Windows platform, so this is how Netscape countered: by making sure that the open source community could have a hand at keeping the web from becoming yet another Microsoft-proprietary technology.

At first, I had no idea of the scope in the differences between Netscape 4.0 and what would become Mozilla; I thought Mozilla was going to be a smaller upgrade, maybe on the same level as the jump from Netscape Navigator 3.0 to Communicator 4.0. But instead, the project started from scratch, and here we are today, with a product that is mature in many ways (and severly lacking in others).

You can read Netscape's FAQ for some further information about it. Notice the references to Communicator 5.0, which has never been, and will never be, an existing product! Plus, Netscape is using their re-branded Mozilla build as Netscape 6, while Mozilla.Org has been naming their milestones with sub-1.0 version numbers up until now.

Re:History?

[Anonymous Coward]

Every developer who is involved in browser development wishes their browser to be the best. What happens in real world is, features are modified, standards broken due to corporate pressure (ie: guys who do not understand technology)and IE works pretty well.

thanks...pathfnder

Re:History?

[Yue]

I've heard reports that it started as early as 1988, others say 1992.

Those reports are related to an early convention that the name of the original netscape browser launched in late 80s should be spelled "netscape" but pronounced "mozilla". That's a separate matter than the OS project Mozilla started in 1998.

Re:History?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, faster than Netscape. Well I'll give you Netscape 6.x but Netscape 4.79 is a hell of a lot faster than Mozilla!

As for Opera, I haven't had any problems with it. In fact, most pages render better on Opera than they do with Mozilla. I was just looking at the BBC news site today and Mozilla was just a mess. Text overlaping text, etc..

Re:History?

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF are kids being taught now? The web didn't exist until 93, Mosaic was the first browser and it came out in 93, and Netscape did not appear until 94. There was no web in the 80's.

Won't compile and run on 68K Macs.... bad code

[Anonymous Coward]

Won't compile and run on 68K Macs.... bad code design.

It was broken since inception.

Why? Too many resources, string resources, butchery of code layout, and breakage of all the old mac-isms.

There are very fast modern web browsers for 68040 based Macs though.... the 2002 version of iCab and of course slightly older releases of Navigator.

I wish source to the REAL netscape 3.01 was given out.

It was secure, exploit free, had Javascript, Java support and all the things Mozilla lacked at first that made it unpopular among reluctant programming contributors.

Or maybe the fact that the code released to the press was different by a few lines than the code eventually released to the public. The press got a different source code version that was never distribted to the public. Maybe it was only a few lines but it was fraud. Simple fraud.

Mozilla would have been released at 1.0 many years ago if it was actually based on the real source code to navigator instead of a still-born project that never shipped...that is until now.

I bet its memory usage is astronomical compared to iCab.

Use Cleartype and get a LCD Monitor

[Anonymous Coward]

I use a LCD and XP ClearType and Mozilla renders beautifully on any web page with any font. It is better than apple's anti-aliasing on os x. I wouldn't say it if it weren't true. It seems that hardware anti-aliasing is definitely better than software anti-aliasing.

Mike

Re:Use Cleartype and get a LCD Monitor

[Zathrus]

It seems that hardware anti-aliasing is definitely better than software anti-aliasing.

Gotta give a big "duh" here.

Of course it is.

And that doesn't solve the problem. Heck, it doesn't even address the problem. XP has anti-aliased fonts available through the base Windows services. The issue is that X/Windows does not. There are X libraries that do, but Mozilla isn't currently built on one, and the work necessary to move to it is non-trivial.

more bugs?

[natmsincome.com]

One of the things that really bugs me is when people look at the bug cound and say hay there were 21 000 bugs in X version but there are now 22 000 bugs in Y version so X version must be buggier than Y version.

Generally most of the bugs in that were found in version Y were already in X but they weren't found. That is there aren't more bugs just more that are found.

Another thing is have you read some of the bugs submitted?

Check out these(5 new bugs picked at random):

*Bugzilla Bug 78633 [console] photon port should not print to console for opt builds (maybe)

*Bugzilla Bug 35419 solaris/gcc should use -shared instead of -G in configure.in DSO_LDOPTS

*Bugzilla Bug 108476 Error with XML

*Bugzilla Bug 56179 Broken mozilla.org links

*Bugzilla Bug 9185 Gtk command-line args crash viewer

It may just be me but none of these are show stopper bugs in my mind. The truth is if the bug database wasn't open then people would be talking about how much more stable the new mozilla is instead of how many more bugs it has.

It a couple of people went through the 22 000 bugs and removed the redundant bugs and fixed the trival bugs that most people don't care about chancers are that after one or two months the bug cound would be down to something more like 3 000 bugs BUT mozilla would be almost exactly the same.

Re:more bugs?

[Anonymous Coward]

Was your random search on closed bugs as well as opened bugs?

Re:more bugs?

[Anonymous Coward]

No offense, but a bug is a bug. If this was MS and they said upon IE 6 launch it had 1000 bugs, and then a month later said it now had 2000 bugs, I would say it's pointing to the fact that something is rotten at the core. And trust me people would be all of them.
When you keep finding more and more bugs it's 'usually' indicative of a poor product.
Keep in mind I'm a moz user and somewhat agree that many of the bugs are trivial. But for some reason I don't take comfort in your argument tht they "are just finding more bugs".
Yea exactly.

poor, poor people...

[drik00]

Mozilla has branched for 1.0 RC1

...and the entired population of Arkansas is upset...many sigh, "Why can't our family tree branch?"...referring to the way their family trees tend to just loop back upon itself...

hell, this will probably get mod'ed "Redundant" by the chimps with mod-points anyhow.

Re:poor, poor people...

[Anonymous Coward]

Moderation works... many (at least 9) posts of mine started at 0 anon and rose to +5.

Humorously, I think anon +5 is removed from the history lookup of old posts.

I do this on purpose whenever I have a +5 bombshell of a post. I post it as 0 and see if modding works.

Occasionally a moderator will take a post that should be +4 and mod me instantly to -1 incompetently using the troll designator. This made me bitter enough that I stopped contributing the last 5 months or at least rarely contribute, though I did get two +5 this last month.

So I have to say moderation works.... but not if you say ANY THING negative about linux or linux style coding in any way whatsoever... not even remarks on mac that are positive. A simple positive comment on a mac is considerred a grave offense against linux.

Re:poor, poor people...

[Dr. Sp0ng]

hell, this will probably get mod'ed "Redundant" by the chimps with mod-points anyhow.

Yeah, probably. It's not really redundant, but until Slashdot gets a (-1, dumbass) moderation, it's the most fitting.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[mike_sucks]

Given that Linux as a much lower installed base than Windows, it's hardly suprising, isn't it?

You're making the mistake of equating open source and Linux. This may be the case for a few projects (the Gnome, KDE, etc) the vasy majority of open source projects aren't Linux-centric.

ObMozBugComplaintBitchSlap: Anyway, instead of bitching about the time it takes to fix Linux bugs, why don't you fix them youself? It works for me, and I feel better about myself when I wake up in the morning because of it.

mike

-- written using Moz 0.9.9+ runnning on Debian/unstable

Re:Mozilla Bugged -- Unicode is defective in spec

[Anonymous Coward]

Unicode is poorly designed it the spec.

Apple and other corporations have created far more usable script languages supporting arabic and hebrew and asian sets > 64K symbols, etc.

I was horrified to read the unicode spec when it hit the store shelves years ago.... I wanted to see if they called and octothorpe and octothorpe was correctly listed as an entry for the symbol commonly called "hash sign" and "sharp" and "crosshatch" and "number sign" and "octothorpe". (all the same suymbol .... #)

But I found out unicode was impossible to implement in pascal and Modula-2 or any case sensitive language!!

Why?

Because Unicode morons added a header definition for Pound_Sign (the british unit of currency and then retyped pound_Sign with a lowercase letter in the c language header file for the octothorpe.

octothorpe is an undisputed non-confusing name and obviously british people take great offense in americans renaming their currency name for antoher symbol (the octothope with its many other names).

I vowed that day that I would NEVER EVER support unicode and in fact I vowed a lifetime goal of another promise to myself... I vowed to sabotage all unicode progress wherever I could by making it defective, slow, incoplete or impossible to retrofit into source code. I wanted unicode to be associated with feces. I hope I suceded in my own little ways.

I celebrate BiDi bugs in all their glory. Longe live "case insensitive symbol language definitions"

death to unicode hypocrisy and mediocrity!

Which Plug-Ins Will Work?

[billstewart]

It's nice to have version N+0.0.1 of Mozilla finally reach the official 1.0.0.0.RC.1, but for me the big issue in the last couple of versions has been "What plugins work?". While I'm a strong believer in the "HTML is supposed to be a content distribution language, not a page layout language" sort of purism, many of the web pages I want to read aren't (:-), and often they'll include things like Flash, RealAudio, Quicktime, etc., and I'd especially like to be able to see the movie formats.

But I've had real trouble installing the things successfully in Mozilla - plugin installers often "know" that they belong to Netscape, and don't seem to be visible to Mozilla, especially if I have both browsers installed on my Win98 machine. Which plug-ins are going to work? Will the Mozilla developers test the installation procedures? And how do you keep Internet Exploiter from stealing dominant-browser status?

Re:Which Plug-Ins Will Work?

[x0n]

"HTML is supposed to be a content distribution language, not a page layout language"

Isn't that a bit backwards? HTML is very much a "page layout language", and wouldn't you say XML is more for "content distribution", e.g. raw data?

- Oisin

Re:Which Plug-Ins Will Work?

[shadowlight1]

This is absolutely true. I can't even get the Java runtime to be recognized in XP -- it just tells me to download the netscape plugin finder. (If anyone has any suggestions on this, please don't hesitate to email me).

Re:Which Plug-Ins Will Work?

[_xeno_]

No, he's right: HTML is supposed to be a content discription language, not a page layout language.

That's why the tags in the core HTML describe content like <em&gt indicates that the text should be displayed with emphasis as opposed to the newer <i> tag that does something similar. HTML marks content with rendering hints, but it's not designed to be able to lay out a page. It's designed to describe rendering hints on a page. Any time HTML is used to lay out a page, it's using a bastardization of tables and using tags that have been removed in HTML 4.01 strict (and are merely deprecated in HTML 4.01 transitional).

CSS (Cascading Style Sheets) is designed to lay out a page. CSS can be applied directly to an XML document (in the spec, maybe not via any tools yet), and it can also describe the page layout. I'd point you to my website that uses CSS to lay out the page, but it's currently offline, so I'll just have to send you to the W3 CSS site. If you're using a CSS compliant browser (Mozilla is the best at rendering it properly but IE works - dunno about anything else), you should notice the menu and the various links scattered about the top of the page that are defined via CSS page lay out rules.

HTML as originally designed is intended to describe sections of a document. At some point, people started developing fancy webpages and HTML 3 was born which included a lot of page lay out tags. However, more recently, with IE 5 and Mozilla, CSS and HTML have taken over for page design, meaning that newer sites can be designed using HTML 4.01 strict with CSS describing how it should be displayed. (This is the preferred, "proper" method.) Historically, HTML was originally designed to define a page structure, delinating paragraphs and lists. With HTML 4.01 it returns to the ideal, while using CSS to allow for fancy page layout.

Re:Which Plug-Ins Will Work?

[Yue]

I was using mozilla 0.9.* on flavours of Redhat.
There were no problems whatsoever with plugins
written for netscape (flash, java, and several more). Even an exotic plugin written in mid 90s for some custom kerberos 4-to-5 authentication worked fine.

You have to just place the plugins in mozilla's plugin folder as opposed to netscape's plugin folder where they're sent by default by the installer.

Re:Which Plug-Ins Will Work?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually that's a common misbelief. Historically HTML wasn't about page structure - now it's made for that, sure, but the HTML 3.2 spec said you can use Tables for layout, and em for italics rather than emphasis. This is the same in earlier specs too.

It wasn't originally designs to describe sections of a document. It did it in part - but it did have goals of defining many visual styles.

Re:Which Plug-Ins Will Work?

[Fjord]

I don't know when you learned HTML, but I learned it to make my first web page in 1993 to display on Mosaic, HTML didn't have a version number, and it had both the em and i tags.

Proof

[Anonymous Coward]

No need to read sci.math to prove this:

1. Open a new Excel spreadsheet
2. Enter 0.9999999 in a cell
3. Result: 1

QED

Re:Proof

[Lispy]

errr...this depends on how your excel rounds (?? i hope thats the english word) the numbers. It has nothing to do with 0,9 period.
But its always a good laugh when the controlling guys rely on it...harharhar!

cu,
Lispy

Re:Proof

[Anonymous Coward]

The post was tongue-in-cheek, of course; I should have added a smiley.

The differences in internal representation and display value in Excel give our paper-pushers lots of headaches, such as when they write macros like if(A1=1;"Foo!";"Bar!") and they get the wrong result even is "1" is clearly displayed on the screen ;)

Re:Proof

[knulleke]

Yeah, I'm waiting for Microsoft to update Excel so you can say

"Goldbach's conjecture"
Excel> True

Reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon in which Microsoft releases some software with a spelling error in it. The next day it appears that all available vocabularies in the world contain this new word.

Oh well...

Expect to see the following comment...

[moZer]

...when 1.0 is actually released:

"Today's headlines: Mozilla releases 1.0, reports of flying pigs, hell freezes over. Film at 11."

Re:inspirired by linux.Re:It figures....

[psamuels]

This is because linux also started with the 0.9x series.

No, 0.9x came several months after 0.01, the first release - though Linus did skip from 0.12 to 0.95 when the project started to stabilise. See Riley Williams's archive for details.

How to block the ads Slashdot forces you to watch

[Anonymous Coward]

For Windows 98/ME/2000/XP users:

Open c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts in Notepad. Go very bottom and add

"127.0.0.1 images.slashdot.org"

Save the file and restart your browser.

I am working on a solution for linux/unix.

Tell these trolls at slashdot to stop making you pay for their paper thin/biased content.

The 'new' roadmap...

[SmileyBen]

That roadmap isn't actually new. Just look at the revision date, the last thing on the document. Mitchell Baker has indeed promised a new roadmap, but that aint it yet.

The link's still good, though - that's where it'll be when it's done, but don't get confused because that's been there about three weeks now...

Re:The 'new' roadmap...

[jsoderba]

It is new. Look at the 1.0 branch a notice the 1.0 RC1. That wasn't there before.

Re:The 'new' roadmap...

[Zinho]

The reason why the roadmap counts as being "just modified" is that there is a date for the 1.0 branch (April 09) and an ideal release date (15-Apr-2002) in the table further down the page. Neither of these were there yesterday; I've gotten compulsive about checking.

Anyone remember if the line in the table for 1.0 has always said RC1? I seem to remember it just saying 1.0...

Re:The 'new' roadmap...

[SmileyBen]

Hence the 'This link is correct because that's where the document will be'!

We're both right - the roadmap now /has/ been updated. It hadn't been when this story was posted, or when I wrote my comment ;-)

Re:The 'new' roadmap...

[SmileyBen]

Erm, yes... i.e. after this story was posted, and after I wrote my comment. I did check!

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Pentagram]

An interesting idea. Does any wm do this currently? I can see that it would be useful for consoles; not sure about other apps. File managers possibly.

One-click tabs for each emacs buffer would be nice. I find one of the few times using emacs where I have to use conscious thought just to use it is when I'm trying to think which buffers I have open/what their names are.

Labor Day

[Anonymous Coward]

You read it correctly, but not sufficiently deeply..

May 1st is of course International Labor Day, i.e. Communist's Day. And we all know that open source projects are evil communist plots designed to overthrow the heroic efforts of god-fearing capitalist corporations.

It's really all a subtle plot.

Re:inspirired by linux.Re:It figures....

[leuk_he]

Damn, I know i had this coming on /. A second after posting it i realized there was a 0.xx where xx =12 version of linux.

To correct this I will try to damage my monitor by slamming my head into it.

Wishlist

[haeger]

My wishlist:
* Standard plugins installed (Flash, Java).
* Mouse Gestures installed by default.
* An IE (lookalike) skin.

This way I can drop Mozilla in anybodys lap and make them use it.
If they need to install extra plugins, configure them and do other "techie" stuff they'll say "Screw it, I'm going back to IE that actually works" and that'll be the end of it.

Mozilla has to be better than IE in ALL areas for it to succeed. I know it's better in most, but it can improve in some.

Users dont want whats technically the best, they want something familiar that works when they see it the first time.

.haeger

Re:Wishlist

[Anonymous Coward]

An IE (lookalike) skin.

It's not listed on the "Get New Themes" page, but someone made an IE skin this week.

Re:Wishlist

[Anonymous Coward]

Mozilla isn't supposed to be packaged up nice for the end-user. Either use Netscape and live with the AOL icons or package up your own distribution.

Mozilla was going to be the all to end all ...

[The Sith Lord]

I have been using Mozilla forever (well, since the alpha 9 release), and have been amazed by it's progress. I downloaded CVS snapshots regularly, and found more and more reason to love Mozilla.

However, ever since 0.9.7, things didn't seem so peachy. The same Mozilla snaps that were brining me so much joy were crashing on a regular basis. Even the official releases were crashing. The little things that I thought were really cool, were deemed to be not so and disabled.

My gripes with Mozilla, however, are now over, now that I've installed KDE 3.0. The new Konqueror is sheer brilliance, and Kmail is as full featured as Mozilla mail was. I am finally 100% satisfied with my desktop system.

I tried to love Mozilla, and for the longest time I did ...

Re:Mozilla was going to be the all to end all ...

[tswinzig]

However, ever since 0.9.7, things didn't seem so peachy. The same Mozilla snaps that were brining me so much joy were crashing on a regular basis. Even the official releases were crashing.

1. And you reported these crashes to bugzilla so they could be addressed, right?

2. I have had VERY FEW crashes since 0.9.7. Perhaps there are installation problems on your machine?

The little things that I thought were really cool, were deemed to be not so and disabled.

Such as?? BTW, mozilla is open source, so it would be possible to have your own build with features you like added to it. Course, I'd wait until 1.0 is out and stable...

Re:Mozilla was going to be the all to end all ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Such as?? BTW, mozilla is open source, so it would be possible to have your own build with features you like added to it. Course, I'd wait until 1.0 is out and stable...

Maybe he doesn't want to wait until 2008.

Re:How to block the ads Slashdot forces you to wat

[Anonymous Coward]

I am working on a solution for linux/unix.

Yeah, editing /etc/hosts is just too easy. It's no fun. I hope that your solution is scripted in Python and works Linux kernel version X.YZ.ZY+Low-Latency Bullshit TirePatches.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[kyrre]

When I first started to use os X last month Omniweb was my prefered browser. But after a while the crashing started to anoy me. Now this may be the fault of the pages i visit, but Mozilla handle them just fine. I use Mozilla these days as I found os x builds that works great.

One problem wiht Mozilla. It likes put bizare names on the files that I download. Omniweb does support the features of os x better. I hope Mozilla will get there one day.

1.0 my ass

[streetlawyer]

"4 years for a 1.0"!?! Do me one. This is not something written from the ground up. However much new code there is in there, Mozilla was based on the Netscape source release and is "1.0" in name only. They have taken 4 years to get back where they started.

Re:1.0 my ass

[cdemon6]

the developers decided to rewrite mozilla form scratch... there was lots of criticism, but finally, they did it! :)

Re:1.0 my ass

[streetlawyer]

Nevertheless, they rewrote Mozilla "from scratch" with access to the Netscape codebase; it was not a clean-room implementation and they did not start off with zero knowledge of the way Netscape had gone about things. It is therefore a valid criticism of early versions of Mozilla that they were so much worse than Netscape, and this is not a 1.0 release.

Re:1.0 my ass

[moonbender]

They have taken 4 years to get back where they started.

LOL!

Re:1.0 my ass

[kiwaiti]

Forcing "clean room" implementations [in any software, at least where I can think of; prove me wrong] is just plain wrong. They are a symptom of sick social conditions that need change. They are NOT something to strive for, unless directly threatened by said conditions, which does not seem to be the case here.

Kiwaiti

No way!

[IamTheRealMike]

You have never mentioned OmniWeb. I'm convinced that this is the best web browser. Small... light... Integrates smoothly with desktop

There's a reason for this apathy. OmniWeb may be small and light, but it also has no DOM to speak of, is way behind on features compared to Mozilla and is also MacOS X only as far as I'm aware.

In fact I believe the Omni crew are switching away from their own rendering engine to using Gecko, because it'd take years for them to get to the level of rendering accuracy Mozilla has. OmniWeb is currently a little like Konqueror on Linux, real nice, but can't really compete yet in terms of rendering or features.

Some crash tips

[IamTheRealMike]

Remember this - the Mozilla test builds are there to get bug feedback. So, what happens when Moz dies and talkback appears? Do you think simply clicking Send is enough? It's not. Here's what to do:

When a crash is reported by Talkback, see if you can reproduce it. If you can, don't bother sending the repeat crash logs, there's no point. Instead, try to make a minimal test case, so you find the exact problem that causes the crash.

Now go into Bugzilla and file a bug with a brief description of the crash, and most importantly of all the talkback ID of the crash. You can find this out by running the talkback program that's in the components directory. Once you've added the talkback ID to the crash report, a Mozilla engineer will pull the stack trace from the Talkback DB and work will start.

If you don't file in Bugzilla, chances are it won't be looked at! So file them!

Finally, a quick word of warning: don't be surprised if the bug is marked as critical/futured. I've found several times now when I've crashed Mozilla it's because I've been doing some strange stuff with XML or the site contains some seriously twisted markup. Although crashes are always treated seriously, if it's not a situation the average user will ever encounter it will probably get futured.

Happy hacking!

On the other hand...

[justin_saunders]

4 years of development does sound bad when you consider a "commercial vendor" who has waited "until 3.x to begin getting things right" now has approximately 80% of the browser share.

Horrible but true.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Bnonn]

The tabbed windows, I believe, were around in Opera before Mozilla. I use Mozilla for testing compatibility on my website (sometimes what looks good on Opera can look a bit wrong in other browsers) but I find that while it does have some really great features I'd love to see in Opera, it's missing a bit too that makes it inconvenient for me to use. One of the main things that I still haven't figured out (and I have looked) is how to go to the address bar using the keyboard. In Opera you hit F8. In IE you hit Alt-D. I'm sure Mozilla must have this really obvious feature or people would go insane, but I just can't seem to find it.

The other thing that's a bit annoying, though has improved greatly since I first tried the 0.9.3 release, is the feeling that Mozilla is a little sluggish. I don't know if it's actually slower rendering an average page than Opera is (perhaps a tiny bit), but it feels slower. Opera seems to get everything worked out in the background before drawing a page; Mozilla seems to draw it as it goes. I know this is a crap reason to not use a browser, but it's that F5, <pause>, white screen, page-draws-down that bugs me.

There are, of course, other minor annoyances, like the rather slow loadup time (but I have my browser open nearly 24/7 anyway), but those two things are probably what I still find the worst. Oh yeah, and I'm sure Mozilla supports them, but there doesn't seem to be a way to turn on mouse gestures through the preferences.

Please note that I'm speaking purely from the point of view of someone who is using Opera, and before that IE. I find Opera's keyboard shortcuts and the ability to turn off Javascript, images etc with a single pulldown menu (F12) to be really great; I imagine you can do similar things in Mozilla, but they're not as easy to find in my experience.

On the other hand, Mozilla has a fabulous preferences system that is much easier to use than Opera's. It has a prettier interface too, although Opera certainly isn't ugly. And while it doesn't have mouse-wheel window switching, it also doesn't keep focus on the old window tab because of it. Don't think I'm bashing Mozilla because I'm not. I imagine that if you were someone accustomed to Netscape, Mozilla would seem far better than Opera. Opera seems to try to be more like IE. If Opera wasn't around, I'd use Mozilla, and I'm pleased there's a really decent alternative to Opera--both because competition promotes innovation, and because if Opera ever goes under or their browser just goes to shit, I can switch to Mozilla. I'd like to make a completely redundant statement now, and say kudos to everyone involved with the Mozilla project. Awsome work guys; I may not use your browser, but I'm still behind you 100%.

just goes to show...

[dollargonzo]

just goes to show how much dignity oss community has.to them, 1.0 actually means a good product, which is important, because it also means they are trying to just make their product better instead of stealing money from unbeknownst consumers.

lets just hope this particular trait of oss remains and does not become corporate like competition.

QED

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[rafa]

There is acatully, fluxbox. It's a fork where they've kept developing the blackbox code. You can find it at fluxbox.sf.net

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[jesser]

ObMozBugComplaintBitchSlap

In 2 years of reporting 800 bugs, I've been told "fix it yourself" two or three times. Mozilla developers appreciate bug reports and most don't mind an occasional "I think this bug is important because...". If you just go around complaining "This bug has been known for x months" or "I can't believe you didn't fix obscure bug y, nobody will use your browser", you might get that response, but you're more likely to be ignored.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would [OT]

[mr3038]

I mean, one rather popular OS I know of got up to about 98 until they decided to rewrite the whole thing from scratch again because it wasn't any good.

Actually, there was also a release called "ME" after that -- perhaps they run out of numbers?

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[mark_lybarger]

i just tried this, but for some reason i keep getting mozilla crashes when i go to www.flash.com. i was hoping for an answer to my lack of flash on linux... maybe tomorrow.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[jesser]

One of the main things that I still haven't figured out (and I have looked) is how to go to the address bar using the keyboard. In Opera you hit F8. In IE you hit Alt-D. I'm sure Mozilla must have this really obvious feature or people would go insane, but I just can't seem to find it.

Ctrl+L. For other shortcuts see http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~jruderma/mozilla/keyboard-h elp/

The other thing that's a bit annoying, though has improved greatly since I first tried the 0.9.3 release, is the feeling that Mozilla is a little sluggish. I don't know if it's actually slower rendering an average page than Opera is (perhaps a tiny bit), but it feels slower. Opera seems to get everything worked out in the background before drawing a page; Mozilla seems to draw it as it goes.

What's wrong with incremental rendering? One thing that often annoys me when I use Opera is that it will download an entire 4MB page before displaying anything. Mozilla sometimes does that as well, but we consider it a bug (129640) when it does. Mozilla has an optimization that makes not display anything for the first 1.2 seconds of interpreting a page (unless it finishes in under 1.2 seconds), so once the first screenful of the page appears, you can usually read it while the rest of the page loads quietly.

Just one area needs more speed....

[berniecase]

Just one more area needs more speed, and this is particularly an OS X thing.... it's just how quickly a cached page is displayed. Pages loading up uncached load much quicker than IE on my G4/800 iMac. I just wish I could go back a page as quickly as I can in IE.

Mozilla is my primary browser these days, however, and it rarely crashes. That, in itself, is great.

I can't wait to see what 1.0 holds.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[mike_sucks]

Well, yeah. There's a distinct difference between contributing bug reports (i.e. doing something useful) vs bitching about bugs not getting fixed (i.e. worsening the signal:noise ratio). So, given you're actually helping those working on Moz, it's not suprising that you haven't been given the "fix it yourself" treatment very much.

It just occasionally annoys me enough to read *yet another* post complaining about some bug by someone that has no intent to spend time fixing it, yet simultaneously expects others to go out of their way to fix it for them, and at those times I feel the need to wield a clue-by-four. I guess that makes this meta-bitching, but hey, everyone needs an outlet. 8)

Keep on reporting those bugs!

Mike.

...and in the meantime ...

[Anonymous Coward]

IE and Opera have kicked their asses.

Nice try. No cigar. Go to the back of the class.

Sometimes being on time counts for something, more than just showing up.

Re:...and in the meantime ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes they have. I use opera all the time I am in XP, and when I'm using Linux I use Konquorer. I was excited about Mozilla two or more years ago when they were saying it was going to blow the competition out of the water with their gecko engine and rewrite the code and it will be faster, better, stronger and so on and so on...Well two years later IE is the browser to beat, Opera is the up and coming browser, and Mozilla is big, fat, buggy,crash-prone, bloated, and slow. But thanks for showing up.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Bnonn]

That link just makes Mozilla a whole lot more usable for me; thank you kindly.

Regarding your question...there's nothing wrong with incremental rendering at all. I'm not trying to dis the Mozilla team for choosing to have Mozilla render pages like this. As you say, incremental rendering can be really helpful when it's a large page, and yes, Opera does often sit for thirty seconds on a blank page before showing you anything, and yes it's damn annoying. I was commenting entirely in terms of the effect that incremental rendering has for me, as an Opera user. Since I generally only load small pages, I find that the difference between Mozilla and Opera's rendering methods makes Mozilla feel sluggish. It's probably completely illusionary, and as I mentioned, it's a crap reason to not use Mozilla. No offence was intended &:>

I wonder now...will Mozilla ever give me the most important feature Opera has; page load speed in the status bar ;)

Microsoft Zealot of the year

[Anonymous Coward]

You should run in the Microsoft Fanatic competition in 2002. With that one, there would not have been a competition. You would won it straight away.

Linux, MacOS X, QNX, [insert other Unix variants here] are perfectly good operating systems these days. I prefer using Windows at home but at work, where I need to get things done quickly out-of-box and not after fixing the OS for hours and having to read obscure FAQs and manuals on how to get a piece of driver working on Windows, using Linux is simply the best alternative. RTF documents, supported by nearly every office suite, are also such a good way of communicating with the clients that a non-Windows environment is a practical possibility.

Or do you really believe Microsoft's crap about how using open source source is wrong??

Startup Time....

[Rcoonz]

I think , I will continue to use Konqueror for
the only reason that it starts up faster.
When i find pages that Konqi doesnt render well
I switch to Mozilla.....because 5seconds is to much for a browser...

Re:Startup Time....

[Anonymous Coward]

On my computer, Mozilla and Netscape starts under 1 second. And I'm not even running a supercomputer, just an old 500MHz Celeron laptop.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Anonymous Coward]

I tried OmniWeb on Mac OS X and all it did was crash every 10 minutes. Which is a shame, because it was a lot nicer than IE on Mac.

Just like sex

[CAIMLAS]

Wow, I never thought I'd see the day!

I remember when I first heard of Mozilla about 3 years ago - it was going to make the "browser war" non-existant becuase it was so much faster than Internet Explorer, and still had a lot of slimming down to do (oh, and it was already pretty small!) Never mind that at the time, it had hardly any features, was quite unstable, and such. It was a dream people had. It would be great!

Now, the moment is almost upon us, and Mozilla is almost out in the wild. Several years ago I was quite excited, but now? Well, I'm happy, of course, but what's the big deal? It's nothing all that fantastic, other than that it's a competing (open source) product for IE. If it fit on a floppy and file my taxes (damn those taxes!), though - that's another story. :)

I s'pose it's like sex - everyone says how great it is, and every teenage boy wants it. But then, when it's finally obtained or obtainable, it's just kind of, "Eh, it was ok, but not what I thought."

Re:Just like sex

[blank]

speak for yourself---sex was everything that i thought it would be and got better. =)

so i guess you can say that i'm looking forwards to the mozilla release. ;)

mozilla 1.0-RC just reminds me that i'm 4 years older now. *sigh*.

Re:Just like sex

[Morel]

I s'pose it's like sex - everyone says how great
it is, and every teenage boy wants it. But then, when it's finally obtained
or obtainable, it's just kind of, "Eh, it was ok, but not what I thought."

Eh?! Man, you're obviously doing it wrong!

Use GdkXft

[FooBarWidget]

Mozilla is already able to use Freetype for TTF rendering, but Mozilla can use all fonts provided by the X server as well.
So if you install TTF fonts for your X server, Mozilla can use it.

There's a patch that enables Mozilla to use GdkXft for font rendering. I'm using it, and *everything* in Mozilla is now anti-aliased!
The current patch doesn't work for Mozilla 0.9.9, but I sent a patch for 0.9.9 to the GdkXft author a week ago.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Anonymous Coward]

"I can't believe you didn't fix obscure bug y, nobody will use your browser"

Most of the bitching seems to be surrounding features, or the lack thereof. Things like the view source issue or the lack of roaming profiles generate mucho tension because they aren't percieved as 'bugs' by the Netscape honchos that are doing the dev plan.

I think the core issue is that people have confused 'open source' with 'democratic'. Despite the voting system, etc, Mozilla is still run very much like a commercial software project.

Mozilla speed observations

[Anonymous Coward]

I use 3 browsers on a daily basis: Mozilla 0.99, Netscape 4.72 and IE 6.0. When displaying very large html pages (500K) Mozilla waits until it has read all the information until it displays it, whereas Netscape and IE will render it to screen as it becomes available. The net effect is that you can starting reading the text much sooner in non-Mozilla browsers. Admittedly, Netscape is by far the worst browser when dealing with tables whose elements are of unknown size. IE is faster than the other two browsers in almost all areas.

Is the incremental rendering of uncomplex but large HTML pages with next to no formatting impossible to do in Mozilla's current framework?

Re:Mozilla speed observations

[J'raxis]

I would guess this would have something to do with Mozilla expecting valid HTML. The HTML cant be validated until the last closing tag is read, namely . Also consider that with DHTML layering, an HTML document is no longer even linear code at the end could be displayed at the top of the document, for example.

So maybe its just trying to play it safe so it doesnt muck something up when something unpredictable happens thirty lines before the end of a thousand-line download.

Enough Already!

[Mupp252]

...which is the first last step to a final Mozilla 1.0!

Where else can you get coverage like this about a browser!?!

I mean it's a great browser, and it's come a long way, but this kinda of reporting borders on Star Wars theatrical opening obsession.

Subjects are gay. As are you, reader.

[flaw2]

I'm not a Microsoftie or anything, I just hate shitty browsers. And when you're a dirty GNU hippie communist Lunix homofag, that's all you have. Shitty browsers.

Cohabitation with Netscape

[smagruder]

Now if they can make Mozilla cohabitate successfully with Netscape on the same box for testing purposes, that would be just swell. :)

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Ace Rimmer]

Well, I contributed the bug reports that's all I can do about it. Yes, I have no intent to fix those bugs personally. I don't have time to fix every oss program which I use, especially if the codebase is as huge as mozilla's. I participate on other projects so I prefer fix and enhance those.

As to my comment, I just noted that windows bugs have higher priority. Maybe I'm just bitching....

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Ace Rimmer]

the vasy majority of open source projects aren't Linux-centric

Hopefully, I like variety. However if there was nothing such as OSS (GPLed) Linux many of them probably wouldn't exist in their current state. I mean things of daily use as Gimp, Vim, Cygwin, gcc...

In Windows world it was at best: "err, ok, take this but don't touch my-cool-bugless-ultracool-sources to my ultra-mega-tetris, you pigdog!". Something must have changed....

Why open the trunk now

[vondo]

From the announcement "The trunk is now open to 1.1 alpha work, on the road to 2.0!" I don't think this is quite the time to open the trunk, but rather the time, as is done with the linux kernel, to get everyone even more focused on the final product.

Keeping the trunk closed says "No, you can't checkin your uber-widget yet, go find something to do on 1.0 for a while first."

Obviously, a closure like this can't last too long, maybe until RC1 or RC2 is released. However, mozilla has recently benifited enormously from what seems to be a real focus on the important things in the puch towards 1.0. A few more weeks of this could really make a tangible improvement in the final product.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[mike_sucks]

"Maybe I'm just bitching...."

Aren't we all.. 8)

WRT platform bugs getting fixed sooner than Linux-specific bugs (I'm assuming you're talking about XP - cross platform - bugs here) keep in mind that fixing XP bugs give a lot more bang for buck. Fix one single bug in XP code and you've potentially fixed a bug on the 20+ different platforms tha Moz builds on. Fix one Linux bug, and you've fixed a bug on only one platform, albeit the third or forth most important one. So I think it's fair enough that XP bugs get a lot more attention.

IMHO, YMMV, etc.

Mike.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[EvilAlien]

Didn't work? Of course it worked. It had Window95-level stability issues, and thats a desktop-owning product. Smells like "works well enough for the masses" to me.

Now that Mozilla is at this milestone (I don't know if I can conceived of non 0.foo releases of this software, it just seems wrong somehow), how do you all think it compares with Konqueror, Galeon, Opera, etc? Does Mozilla have a chance to get (back?) on-top in the not-IE browser scuffle? (yes, scuffle... the war ended when Netscape challenged IE and got its head handed to it on a plate)

Congrats Mozilla guys...

[daeglin]

Yes Mozilla is superb project! But what is even better is the Gecko engine. Check the galeon browser you simply must fall in love, even if you do not prefer Gnome.

Re:Congrats Mozilla guys...

[Yr0]

you are a fat gimp

4 years, 2 browsers

[n-baxley]

Really, there have been two browsers developed in 4 years. The intial project used the NS4 code as a starting point and eventually abandonded it as unusable. So, if you take out that initial time, you're probably looking at closer to 2 or 2.5 years. Really not bad when writing a product from scratch.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[mike_sucks]

"However if there was nothing such as OSS (GPLed) Linux many of them probably wouldn't exist in their current state"

Well, OSS certainly wouldn't have the amount of attention that it garners today without the dymanic duo - Linux and Apache. But if Linux wasn't around, I'm sure somthing else would have filled the void. Maybe people would have hacked on the HURD instead, or perhaps ./ would have been a rabidly pro-FreeBSD site.

Of the tools you listed, gcc was developed by RMS and latter on the Cygwin people, Cygwin itself is a port of the GNU userland to Win32, and vim is an enhanced version of one of the original UNIX editors, all written independently of Linux. You can't credit Linux with everything. 8)

The Window's mindset I guess is mainly because people aren't used to having and giving access to source code. People get used to companies screwing them for $$$ and no source, so people on that platform set out to do the same thing when they write software for it. Pretty sad, really.

mike

Uh no...

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe five years ago when Microsoft and Netscape were willy-nilly adding visual markup extensions to HTML; your assertion was true, but that changed with the W3C endorsement of HTML-4.x (purified HTML) and X-HTML (an XML application carrying the same data as HTML) and CSS. Pure HTML is a semantic language; no layout, just information in context. CSS is the "page" layout language that gives visual structure to HTML. X-HTML is essentially HTML with XML syntactic rules, from which you should infer that HTML and XML serve a similar purpose since the former can be an application of the latter.

Remember always: Representation is seperate from presentation. Always. Always. Always.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[ActiveSX]

I don't know what I would use if not for mozilla, but I'm sure it would not be as cool.

Galeon is basically more featureful than Mozilla, and it uses Gecko. Plus it's not as painful to use on my Celeron 366 :)

gonna look like crap...

[skia]

I'm a big mozilla fan, but to be forking for 1.0 and still have no splash screen or icons? And this stuff isn't even themeable, so the usual suspects can't help us.

This is the kind of stuff closed-source people are laughing at. Why can't the Moz team get this together??

Re:gonna look like crap...

[Anonymous Coward]

too lazy to make an account...

There's legal issues that the drivers of mozilla.org won't fix. As such, it's up to users to make their own splash screens and icons. There's a bunch available.

for splash screens:
google for "mozilla splash screen"

for icons (only one I know of):
grayrest/Giovanni icons

Re:gonna look like crap...

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't understand. I have a splash screen and icons. I'm using version 0.9.9 on Windows right now. I have used many previous versions though so maybe it's using it from one of them like it is my preferences. I thought I completely removed all the previous versions though some stuff did get left.

Re:gonna look like crap...

[skia]

I don't deny that there are many IDEAS for splash screens out there. Hell, I've whipped up one or two of my own in gimp. But lets say I want to USE one of those spashscreens that I find with the above google search? What do I do? As far as I've gathered from the bug in my original posting, it requires a recompile of the source!?!

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, if the way for users to implement their own spashscreens is to get the source and compile it with their own image... well that's not much of a solution. That doesn't even rank as a workaround.

Re:gonna look like crap...

[Anonymous Coward]

On Windows, at least, save it as mozilla.bmp in the mozilla directory. I'm not sure if that works on *nix though.

Mozilla, quite simply, rocks.

[dgenr8]

I'll be switching every computer I control to Mozilla when 1.0 is released. Although I've been following Mozilla's development closely for 4 years, this will be the first time I've committed to using it.

I wonder how many more like me there are?

Doesn't my 'talkback' data count?

[mgkimsal2]

I swear I can't hit a link in the mozilla mail program without a 50% chance of total mozilla crash. I send my talkbacks - does that count as 'bug reporting'? Under 'what were you doing?' I put 'clicking a link'.

Sucky timing

[jamie]

This is two years to the day after the late Suck.Com attacked Mozilla's skins:

Unfortunately, Netscape 6 and Mozilla (and WinAmp and ICQ and all the other currently skinnable programs) are just the first waves of this infestation. Checkbox feature parity is inevitable in this coolness-addled world, and soon every application will provide the much-needed ability to make it look like cheese.

I wonder if the final, gold, 1.0 release will be on the two-year anniversary of the much worse Mozilla bashing:

There comes a time when the only merciful thing to do is pull the plug. When the old-timer has been bloated and incontinent for as long as anybody can remember, it can only be considered an act of kindness to turn off the machines and let a dear friend finally breathe its last. So long, Mozilla, old chum -- sorry it had to come to this.

Re:Sucky timing

[Anonymous Coward]

Go bugger yourself, you filthy Editor. Or Jon Katz. Go bugger him. Heeheehee.

funny you should put it like that

[teslatug]

"Mozilla has branched for 1.0 RC1, which is the first last step to a final Mozilla 1.0"

That oxymoron just about sums it up doesn'it.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[gmack]

Flash will crash and take Mozilla with it if anything happens to have the sound device open when using the Linux version.

Re:More Testers!!! (auto update nightly-build)

[bobaferret]

I've got a little shell script that runs every morning as a cron job. It's only burned me once. It's great to come in to work every morning and have mozilla be just a little different, and working better. All hail the mighty lizzard!!

#!/bin/bash
cd /opt
if `ncftpget ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/latest/m ozilla-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.gz` ; then
rm -rf /opt/mozilla
echo "succeded"
else
echo "failed"
fi
tar zxvf mozilla-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.gz > /dev/null
tar zxvf plugin.tgz > /dev/null

true; but you misunderstand

[streetlawyer]

I'm certainly not in favour of forcing clean room interpretations; just of accurate labelling of software releases. It clearly made sense for the Mozilla team to make what use they could of the Netscape code; but equally clearly, having done that, it is not right for them to adopt a numbering convention which implies that they did not do so.

Re:true; but you misunderstand

[Anonymous Coward]

So what you're saying is that because Half-Life used code from Quake 1 and 2 it should have been called "Half-Life 3"?

What would the commercial release of Counter-Strike be called? "Counter-Strike 3.5"?

Who are you and what have you done with the real streetlawyer?

Re:true; but you misunderstand

[maxpublic]

They can adopt any goddamned numbering scheme they like. There's no 'moral' question here, hence your claim "it is not right" is on it's face ludicrous.

Max

Bug number please

[Anonymous Coward]

give us a bug number so we can vote on it.

the only thing i ever like about ms outlook was the ability to select "combine and decode" and view almost an entire newsgroup as one message, and more importantly save it all in one go.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Ace Rimmer]

such as linux

I think there's no dispute between us. I didn't mean to credit Linux for everyting. I credit Linux for that amount of attention without which we won't have oss programs as usable as they are.

It's certainly a big question whether a BSD (and similar) OSS licenced software would make the same boom as GPLed Linux.

all webmail sucks but

[gnugnugnu]

horde.org/imp

sucks way less than any other webmail

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[mike_sucks]

"I think there's no dispute between us."

I'd agree with that. Just don't go bitching about bugs in Moz not getting fixed again. ;)

"It's certainly a big question whether a BSD (and similar) OSS licenced software would make the same boom as GPLed Linux."

I'm honestly suprised that it hasn't. The BSD license, sans the "obnoxious BSD advertising clause", is very corporate-friendly, so I would have though the BSDs would have been more favoured by enterprises and the like.

I guess Linux's less-stringently-controlled environment means that more people are going to work on it just because it's easier to get your code into the tree, and this general popularity captured the press's attention - hence the boom.

[shrug]

mike

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[flink]

At the bottom of this page:
Document: Done (1.462 secs)
This is on Mozilla 0.9.9 (Linux) - it doesn't give rendering time though. Hope this helps :-)

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[sumengen]

After 0.98, the nightlies and the releases both started to give a lot of annoyances and crashes for me.

Bitch, bitch, moan... oh look! 1.0! Yay Mozilla!

[Gryphon]

I have been galled, if not suprised, to observe the pattern of most comments regarding the Mozilla project over the years at Slashdot.

In the early days, it was:

"My GOD, this will NEVER be a usable product! Blah! Mozilla bites!"

This attitude has prevailed (morphing to nitpicking) even with the most recent 0.9.x releases:

"My GOD, Mozilla doesn't cook my bacon and eggs, and make my bed in the morning! Blah! Mozilla bites!"

Now with 1.0 days away, we finally see many more encouraging messages:

"Way to go Mozilla! We were with you all along! Hooray for the glories of Open Source and Free Software!"

I guess I'm being a bit cynical, but it's a good thing that most of the Mozilla developers probably ignored /. over the years anyway. It's not like, say, abot 80% of comments were completely unconstructive, nooo....

0.9.9 is a breese

[bjornte]

I've been using Moz 0.9.9 for a while now, and I just want to say that it works superb on my win2k box. I found the previous versions quite buggy, and sometimes impossible to install, but I think 0.9.9 is a very good browser. Pages render nicely, you can block images from advertisement servers :-), and the tab function is great, just as in Opera. Only problem: My online bank doesn't support Moz. Yet.

Edit - s/abot/about/

[Gryphon]

s/abot/about/

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[mark_lybarger]

i've successfully got it working, though sometimes i still get messages about having the plug-in installed. next to find one for konqueror.

oh yeah, and getting a java plug in that works for mozilla :)

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Christopher Whitt]

jesser has covered keyboard access to the address bar. Thanks! I was wondering about that one myself.

As for speed, the UI chrome can be a little sluggish on a slower machine, but I find the HTML renderer to be quite swift.

rather slow loadup time

I use QuickLaunch and find startup quite reasonable. You can turn it on under Preferences->Advanced, or during installation.

there doesn't seem to be a way to turn on mouse gestures through the preferences

For now gesture navigation is an optional module that you need to install yourself by visiting the OptiMoz site. The installation is really painless, and you can configure or uninstall optimoz through the prefs panel. One caveat: the latest nightly builds seem to have changed some interfaces that OptiMoz uses, so the prefs are no longer visible, though I expect the OptiMoz project to have an updated release available soon.

And while it doesn't have mouse-wheel window switching...

...it does however allow you to configure the mouse wheel with a modifier key to scroll pages at a time, line at a time, change text size or go back and forward through history.

All the UI people are already screaming that Moz has too many prefs. I guess I wouldn't be hired for UI design since I like lots of configurability. I don't see a RFE bug in bugzilla to add switching windows using the mouse wheel, but you can search bugzilla yourself and if you're sure such an RFE doesn't exist, then add a bug.

Of course, RFE's are low on the totem pole right now...

Christopher

They've hurt themselves by being good

[ajs]

Mozilla is starting to run into an odd problem here. Back at 0.8, and even as late as 0.9.2, there were enough bug-fixes coming in for enough major bugs that it was well worth the time of the average well-clued user to run nightlies instead of releases. The nightlies would only be truely unstable for a week or two after a release (as the flood gates opened up), but then they would stabalize, and I found them very usable.

Now, though, the 0.9.8 and 0.9.9 releases have been so stable that I haven't wanted to load a nightly. It hasn't been helped by the fact that Mozillazine used to do a great job of reviewing each set of nightlies, but they've been falling WAY behind for a while now.

I've got work to do, and was really only a tester because being one got me a better browser than NS4. I wonder how many other folk are equally lazy...?

I can't wait

[dotgod]

I can't wait to test RC1. Then test RC2, and then RC3, ... then RC895, then RC896.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[L0rdJedi]

I think it depends on the bugs too. Perhaps you can post the bug numbers and others can take a look at them and see if they can reproduce them. Get a lot of people to vote for the bug and it'll get fixed real fast.

My list of showstopper bugs

[The Cunctator]

Mozilla has been my browser of choice for a while now, but it still has some serious bugs. So consider this criticism based in love. It's also encouraging that all these bugs have a real chance of being fixed. Even I could theoretically fix them.

There is a huge bug with bookmarks:

51683: Unable to have 2 differently named bookmarks for the same url.

This is more than a bit ridiculous, since the bug was submitted September 2000.

Another, less serious bookmark bug:
85469: Bookmark select/cut/paste operation is sensitive to order of selection

This is a major meta-bug:
73812: Browser doesn't fit with Mac OS X UI Specs

Anyone who uses a Mac uses it because of the user interface--having a program that doesn't comply with the guidelines is extraordinarily frustrating. But they're definitely getting closer.

128658: Typing in textarea really slow

Large textareas overwhelm Mozilla. This makes editing in WP, for example, very frustrating. Totally unacceptable.

However, it's great watching bugs get steadily fixed. So vote for the above bugs, get them fixed, submit patches, hooray. The rendering engine really is marvelous.

Re:My list of showstopper bugs

[tswinzig]

There is a huge bug with bookmarks:

51683 [mozilla.org]: Unable to have 2 differently named bookmarks for the same url.

Perhaps this bug is not deemed to be 'serious' since the point of having bookmarks is diminished when you store more than one pointing at the same place, right? Why would you do that?

Re:My list of showstopper bugs

[The Cunctator]

The most common example is the Personal Toolbar--if you, for example, have a link to Slashdot in your personal toolbar, which you abbreviate so that it doesn't take up too much real estate (like "/."), that overwrites the bookmark name in your regular bookmarks list.

More generally, if you sort your bookmarks by category, certain bookmarks may fit into multiple categories.

The most dangerous thing about this bug is that if you delete one instance of the bookmark, you delete all such instances.

Re:My list of showstopper bugs

[cjpez]

Perhaps this bug is not deemed to be 'serious' since the point of having bookmarks is diminished when you store more than one pointing at the same place, right? Why would you do that?

If you're like me, you'll quickly lose track of your bookmarks and end up creating a bunch of "archive" folders to move bookmarks into, and eventually you'll end up duplicating a book mark. ("Wow! What a cool site! Haven't I been here before? No matter. I'll just bookmark it!")

Also, some things might fit under a number of different categories. Slashdot could fit under "news" and "diversions," and maybe a "daily" folder that stores bookmarks you like to go to every morning.

I agree that it's not that big of a deal, though. ("Hm, I can't add this bookmark. Strange." /me moves on)

Re:My list of showstopper bugs

[Bluetick]

The biggest bug for me (as an OSX user), is that Moz breaks PERMANENTLY if you use a proxy server. I run Junkbuster on 127.0.0.1 (or localhost) on port 8000. Try doing it with Mozilla. The browser will now be unable to access any page after you restart it. Not only that, if you turn off the proxy in Mozilla, the thing is still broken.

Neat, still hates flash.. go Mozilla!

[Anonymous Coward]

I track Mozilla releases time to time, I will not deny that it is a very very nice browser.

However, the damn thing still doesn't handle flash transparencies right (Nither does Netscape of course)... But then I again I guess Flash transparences aren't w3c compliant are they.

Wank.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[crumley]

Fix one single bug in XP code and you've potentially fixed a bug on the 20+ different platforms tha Moz builds on. Fix one Linux bug, and you've fixed a bug on only one platform, albeit the third or forth most important one.

While I agree that fixing cross-platform bugs is more important than fixing platform specific ones, I don't think that you made your point very well. The reason is that there are few truly Linux-specific bugs in mozilla. Most "Linux" bugs are actually bugs on all of Mozilla's X Window Systems. Since more than half of Mozilla's platforms use X, fixing one of these bugs fixes a lot of platforms.

Mozilla To Include Distributed Computing Client

[yerricde]

<news truth="0">

Mozilla.org has signed a deal with Distributed Computing Technologies Inc. to include encryption research software in the official binary releases of Mozilla 1.0 Release Candidate 5. The RC5 build will include a distributed application to measure the strength of RSA's RC5 cipher, described in RFC 2040.

</news>

Re:More Testers!!! (auto update nightly-build)

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you add the verbose flag to tar if you pipe output to /dev/null??

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[WhiteKnight07]

You can get mouse gestures for Mozilla here.

Win32 Registry vs. /etc

[yerricde]

There's nothing in Linux as complex and cryptic as... (deep voice) the Registry.

Other than the mess that is some distributions' /etc?

Re:Win32 Registry vs. /etc

[Dehumanizer]

At least whatever's in /etc is *human readable*... :)

-ize comes from Greek

[yerricde]

'Civilised' is spelt perfectly correctly. It's only you 'uncivilized' Americans who spell it wrong.

-ize is better than -ise. The suffix -ize comes from Greek -zein (except for these few exceptions); -ise is a French (ribbit) corruption.

Re:-ize comes from Greek

[pivo]

Ribbit. Hey that's funny. French == frog. I get it. What are you, a writer for the Simpsons or something? You crack me up man, really. Pointless perpetuation of stupid and negative cultural associations is really high class comedy material, really high class. Nice!

Mozilla

[Anonymous Coward]

is neither fast nor stable, discuss?

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[lewp]

Normally I completely agree with you, but with browsing I pretty much need to keep a hand on the mouse anyway. And actually, with this five button optical that does browser forward and back and Mozilla's middle click to open in a new tab I rarely need to use the keyboard at all for browsing except to fill out forms. Then again, Mozilla's form autofill helps out there too :).

Mozilla is especially nice for when I'm at work because I can keep one tabbed window open for things I'm actively working on with another separate tabbed window open with the sites I tend to monitor most of the day (/., k5, message boards i frequent, etc). This helps keep me organized and dramatically reduces the amount of clutter I have to deal with since I almost always have open a half dozen+ browser windows, a few gvims, two or three puttys, aim and winamp.

I switched to using it for 99% of what I do with the 0.9.9 release. There are still some pages on our company intranet that require IE, but that's about it.

Mozilla and Banking

[Baron of Greymatter]

Mozilla works on the Bank of America system, just like Netscape 4.7x did. Too bad Opera and Konqueror don't, though.

Mozilla 0.9.9 is almost there. Much faster and more stable than 0.9.7. Just a few more bugs (such as deleting bookmarks) to work out.

Speed?

[ilyag]

When I used Mozilla (around 0.9.3), I had one major peoblem with it - speed. I was never sure whether it really did start or that it really recieved the mouse click or the button pressed and doing something slowly, or that it exited already or I'm typing in the wrong window..

Is this going to improve? Is it going to start in less than 10 seconds? Are buttons going to be pressed right after you click on them? More importantly, is text you type in the mailer going to appear and cursor going to move immediately after you press the button on the keyboard?

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.xulplanet.com/downloads/view.cgi?catego ry=applications&view=all
The second option down provides an awesome preferences bar that makes using Mozilla the best thing since sliced bread for me.
Hope you like it.

why mozilla dev is slow

[cygnus]

which is the first last step to a final Mozilla 1.0!

it's terminology like that that slows the whole project down! that's like saying "ok, first we're going to write half of the project, and then half of what's remaining to do, then half of what's now remaining, etc." it's an infinite series!

The bug number is: 60981

[WD]

(You cannot link directly from slashdot to bugzilla)

OmniWeb not free as in beer either

[yerricde]

OmniWeb isn't free (as in speech)

OmniWeb isn't free as in beer either. It only runs on one type of hardware, which is not the market leader, and that type of hardware costs $800. Not everybody has the money or desk space for Macintosh hardware, especially if your school or employer mandates a particular brand of Wintel PC.

Re:OmniWeb not free as in beer either

[Anonymous Coward]

OMG! Computers cost teh moneys!

Re:Bitch, bitch, moan... oh look! 1.0! Yay Mozilla

[wedg]

I guess I'm being a bit cynical, but it's a good thing that most of the Mozilla developers probably ignored /. over the years anyway. It's not like, say, abot 80% of comments were completely unconstructive, nooo...

This really is the /. syndrome. Some people complain about the topic. Some people complain about people complaining about the topic. And some people complain about people complaining... etc. And then everyone agrees that /. is going to hell, and wonders why.

I vote we should just stop complaining.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[KnightStalker]

In Opera you hit F8. In IE you hit Alt-D. I'm sure Mozilla must have this really obvious feature or people would go insane, but I just can't seem to find it.

F6 works for me under Linux. Same key works in IE 5. I have no idea if that works in Moz under Win32.

I'm sure Mozilla supports them, but there doesn't seem to be a way to turn on mouse gestures through the preferences.

Optimoz does this. I don't think Mozilla has it natively.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Citizen of Earth]

In 2 years of reporting 800 bugs, I've been told "fix it yourself" two or three times.

Only a few times after 800 reports. That actually sounds amazing patient of the Mozilla developers.

You may want to take time away from the computer:)

[Yam-Koo]

Just kidding with you. :)

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Citizen of Earth]

So how long after Mozilla goes gold are we expecting Opera to stay around? You can't make money when another product is [better than/"good enough" relative to] your product. Mozilla is now immortal thanks to the GPL. How mortal is Opera?

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[jesser]

Only a few times after 800 reports. That actually sounds amazing patient of the Mozilla developers.

That was the point I was trying to make. I didn't word my comment very well... I should have included the word "only".

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Citizen of Earth]

Mozilla has an optimization that makes not display anything for the first 1.2 seconds of interpreting a page (unless it finishes in under 1.2 seconds)

Is there some way to set this timeout? I think things would have a "snappier" feel if it was more like 0.6 seconds.

A way to manually load images?

[Matt]

I have a very low bandwidth 'net connection. The only way I can browse the web is to turn off auto image loading, and then manually load images which look interesting and relevant. (Usually right-click, then select a "load image" menu item.)

I've done this in Mosaic, Netscape 1-4, and now Opera.

As far as I can tell there is no way to do this in Mozilla. On any platorm. Is there in fact a way to do this? Mozilla is useless to me without this feature.

Re:A way to manually load images?

[jeffphil]

You can easy toggle load images preference by creating an html file using text below, and bookmarking the file in your "Personal Toolbar". This will at least let you browse without images and then when you want to view images for the entire page just toggle on.

A better way would be to create a chrome XUL overlay that you could over-ride the context menu and script to only show a particular image as you wish -- it should be pretty easy -- but this is quick and dirty way to get the same effect.

<head>
</head>
<script>
//Allow prefs access
netscape.security.PrivilegeManager.enableP rivilege ("UniversalXPConnect");
var prefs = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/preferences;1"].c reateInstance(Components.interfaces.nsIPref);
//F i gure out current pref and toggle it
var i = prefs.GetIntPref("network.image.imageBehavior") == 0? 2 : 0;
prefs.SetIntPref("network.image.imageBehavior" , i);
//Go back to previous page.
history.back();
</script>

Why I can't wait for Moz 1.0

[gabec]

http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=119599

It's called "Bookmark Groups".. Most anyone that uses Mozilla knows about Tabbed browsing. that's where you can open up a second webpage in the same browsing window and "tab" between them...

If you haven't tried it believe me once you get used to it it's awesome and going back to any other browser just sucks.

well consider this scenario: let's say when you get up you go to the same 10 websites every morning.. slashdot, cnn, scifiwire, PA... whatever.. with this bookmark groups feature you just load up all 10 of your websites into tabs and then bookmark the entire group.. then when you get up you can load up immediately all 10 websites for your perusal all in one tidy window. HELL Yeah. I can't wait for this feature! i just hope it gets done in time for 1.0 :)

Re:Why I can't wait for Moz 1.0

[airlie]

It's there in recent nightlies. Very cool.

Only UI that I've seen for it is under 'File Bookmark' if you have several tabs open.

Oh, wake up yourself.

[IPFreely]

Did you stop to think that maybe some people have been bitching about Mozilla all along, and other people have been cheering Mozilla all along and most of these people have been very consistant? They just outnumber eachother at different times?

Then you come along and notice "Hey, yesterday that guy poo-poo-ed Mozilla, but today this other guy said it was good. What gives?"

Well clearly what gives is that you think this is the same person when in fact it is different people saying different things.

SIDE NOTE: Complaining about how Slashdot people are inconsistant is just STOOPED. There is not one voice here, there are many. If you came to compalin about inconsistancy, then track one person and look for inconsistancy.

Re:Oh, wake up yourself.

[Anonymous Coward]

SIDE NOTE: Complaining about how Slashdot people are inconsistant is just STOOPED.

No, you're the one who's STOOPED for confusing the word with STUPID!

Re:Subjects are gay. As are you, reader.

[FooBarWidget]

No, I'm not a GNU hippie communist anything, YOU are an MS hippie facist Winblows homofag.

Re:My list of showstopper bugs (OT)

[big.ears]

This is more than a bit ridiculous, since the bug was submitted September 2000.
I was stunned and amazed when I read this sentence. I had to read it twice before I believed it! Someone actually spelled "ridiculous" correctly on slashdot! Its gotten so that it doesn't even look correct anymore. Nice work!

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[airlie]

You're kidding right?

They just don't label them as pre 1.0.

I still wonder...

[mirabilos]

if this will run on OpenBSD.

I wonder about this every then and now, mostly when
I read about new releases on slashdot.

The last mozilla that natively ran on OpenBSD/x86-32
is, if I remember correctly, 0.9.3
Newer versions run in Linux binary emulation (I should
s/emulation/personality/ though), ok, but you will have
to have a tens-of-megabytes package (the RH 6.2 libraries)
around unless your Moz-Linux binary is fully statically
linked - preferably against a 2.2 or even 2.0 kernel.

I currently work on a pentium-75 notebook that has only
32 MB RAM, thus rendering Linux binaries nearly unusable,
and even BSDI Netscrap 4.7? is sucking slow. Maybe I should
try konq-embedded, but you still need kdelibs for this.

So my solution is, and I am quite happy with this, to use Lynx
and xloadimage for browsing only (even without starting X11).
But _when_ I wish to graphically browse a website, I have no
real option.

*considering Netscrap 3 for BSD/OS* hmmm...

Anyways, I hope the folks at Moz are working to get OpenBSD
on most platforms (minus vax, I suppose, and probably minus
hppa and sparc64) to run.
Many people I know of would like to hear of success.

Re:I still wonder...

[J'raxis]

. . . You understand you can compile things yourself, right? Thats what the source tarballs on the download page are for.

Re:I still wonder...

[mirabilos]

When I write about Mozilla not running under
OpenBSD, I do know that even self-compiled and/or
tweaked programmes do not run.
There is no way to bring a recent Mozilla to
OpenBSD except by the Linuxulation.
(Maybe FreeBSD binaries work, I don't know.)

OmniWeb isn't a fully featured browser

[frankie]

OmniWeb is pretty, but it doesn't do lots of things that a real v6 browser should handle. Read the last two paragraphs of the WASP recommendations. Here's an excerpt:

Omniweb has been much praised for its elegant interface and superb antialiasing of text, and its support for Unicode and international character sets is unparalleled (only Mozilla comes close).
Unfortunately, Omniweb's support for important web standards like CSS1 and the DOM is so poor as to make it unusable.

If you want elegance and superb antialiasing and standards compliance, consider Chimera.

Re:OmniWeb isn't a fully featured browser

[jbn-o]

Omniweb has been much praised for its [...] superb antialiasing of text...

How much of the antialiasing is due to OmniWeb's code and how much is due to functionality inherited from Quartz?

Re:OmniWeb isn't a fully featured browser

[Anonymous Coward]

Font rendering in OmniWeb (and CocoaZilla) is entirely due to Cocoa/Quartz. All other browsers use Carbon/QuickDraw, which is faster but jaggier.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[jesser]

I don't think so. Note that shortening the paint suppression period would make many sites start to display before Mozilla can figure out the relative sizes of blocks. One reason for paint suppression is that without it, page elements jump around during the first second or so of rendering. (Another reason, which IMO is less important, is that it reduces the total time Mozilla takes to display a page.)

Re:Bitch, bitch, moan... oh look! 1.0! Yay Mozilla

[Anonymous Coward]

In the early days, it was:

"My God, writing your user interface in HTML and Javascript was a stupid idea!"

Now with 1.0 it's:

"My God, writing your user interface in HTML and Javascript was a stupid idea!"

Hopefully they'll get me to change my tune sometime in the future, cuz as of right now it's still ass.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[maxpublic]

There's nothing wrong with incremental rendering, it's just a matter of personal preference. For me it's annoying the have the page 'draw down'; I much prefer the Opera way of doing things.

And although Mozilla is much faster now than in early versions, it still isn't as fast as Opera. I did some timing on page draws earlier and although hardly scientific Opera consistently beat Mozilla time and again - sometimes displaying the page in approximately half the time that Mozilla took.

Max

not entirely safe

[Trepidity]

There's always the possibility that one of the nightly Mozilla builds will have a nasty IMAP bug that corrupts/damages the online folders.

Re:not entirely safe

[DrSkwid]

gonna be a pretty major bug though

All my messages are in separate files and folders, it would have to do some major work to bork it.

As a precaution anyway I run a nightly cron to archive my read messages.

Re:My list of showstopper bugs (OT)

[The Cunctator]

I was stunned and amazed when I read this sentence. I had to read it twice before I believed it! Someone actually spelled "ridiculous" correctly on slashdot! Its gotten so that it doesn't even look correct anymore. Nice work!

At first I thought you were "stunned and amazed" that such a bug could last so long.

By the way, it's "It's", not "Its".

don't spout BS unless you've tried it!!!

[swg101]

This post sounds like the rantings of a brainwashed M$ slave. I suggest that you shelve your bigoted opinions and maybe give open source a try. No one asks you to like it, but give it a try before you spout off at the mouth about what you don't understand!

-keep the faith, Mozilla 1.0 is almost here

Now, we should all stop salivating

[zrk]

No one in their right mind goes with a .0 release, especially not in a "production" environment. ;-)

Before you pick up the flamethrower, I want you to know that I've been using Mozilla since the early .9s and am using the latest non-daily build to post this.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Phexro]

"One-click tabs for each emacs buffer would be nice."

XEmacs has had this feature since v21.something - it's present in 21.4, which is what I use.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[FuzzyBad-Mofo]

In contrast, I'm still trying to figure out how to get flash to work with Mozilla.

Personally I will not run Flash, due to the many annoying advertisements using it. However, if you must have it, you can just use the Netscape plugin..

Fuzzy

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Darren Winsper]

One reason Opera can render faster than Mozilla is because it has a simpler rendering engine. Mozilla has to support DOM1 and a large chunk (if not all) of DOM2. This means pretty much every element can be seen as an object and manipulated as such, such as dynamically setting things like opacity, size, font and even position.

Since Opera is very weak in DOM support, it doesn't have to be so complex, and thus can render faster, but it cannot do many things Mozilla can do. On one hand, it's nice to have a browser that is lightweight and fast, on the other hand it pisses me off as a developer because it holds me back if I want to support Opera.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Darren Winsper]

Opera is a niche browser, and always has been. The people who like Opera like the fact that it's lightweight, snappy and/or has an unconventional UI. Oh, and it has a decent download manager built-in.

While Mozilla is getting a download manager, you can hardly describe it as lightweight, at least if you don't count just embedding the rendering engine.

I imagine Galeon might appeal to many Opera fans, but in all honesty, I can't see the majority of Opera users switching unless somebody essentially built an Opera-like browser using Gecko as the rendering engine. Even then, some people would still prefer Opera for its lightning fast (If a little dated) rendering engine.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[ahde]

Star Office hasn't changed since 1998.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Fjord]

I know this is a crap reason to not use a browser, but it's that F5, , white screen, page-draws-down that bugs me.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. I've only been using Moz since 0.9.9 and haven't noticed this problem. I just tried F5 on the main /. page and my user page, and I didn't see this effect either (the page continued to be displayed until the next one was rendered.

Not to say there aren't other annoyances. My current peeve is the way text is highlighted in the address bar. It always seems to be doing the wrong thing.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Fjord]

I'm like the other respondent, I write web application that rely a lot on JavaScript for the UI. Originally I was using IE5 for development, but I've switched to Mozilla since 0.9.9. The JavaScript is all DOM1 so, it's pretty easy to stay compliant with IE (whereas it's easy in IE to go out of compliance with other IE version). Also the DOM browser really helps a lot in other cases.

Eventually I will get around to learning how to use the JavaScript debugger. I haven't had enough of a problem yet to warrent learning it, though.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Fjord]

It does. having come from ie5, it's what I always use.

Re:Bitch, bitch, moan... oh look! 1.0! Yay Mozilla

[fsck!]

Slashdot has what, 10,000 users? Would you rather we all have the same opionion?

I just cant't wait...

[Anonymous Coward]

to get my own mozilla 1.0 RC 99 :D

You know you are a geek...

[k2x]

When you "install a nightly build almost every morning"...

and sip your morning coffee...and "unsubscribe" your newspaper. :)

High times for Linux..we can ONLY IMPROVE!

[k2x]

We are now in the high times for Linux. I mean, I consider Linux and Windows to be at the crossroads for the best OS.

For Linux we have:

KDE 3.0 + all the nice utils
Mozilla 1.0/Konqueror(even more better with crossweaver's plugins!)
OpenOffice
Apache 2.0
Samba
etc.

A lot of these and other types of softwares are "professional quality"...and it suprises me that people actually do this for free.

The point? We have just met up with Windows. Open source software can *only* improve from this point on, while Windows just stagnates(with UI updates every 5 years).

Mozilla much slower than Opera

[rs79]

I've used Netscape since Andresson announced the first version on Usenet and only upgraded when I had to. When I could't stand 4.77 "correcting" me when I typed in an address in the Location: line I tried 6.2.2 and thought for a second my CPU had been replaced by a 4 Mhz Z80. Up to one second to respond to a right mouse click is sheer idiocy.

I tried Opera and Mozilla two weeks ago. Mozilla is only half as slow as NS6.2.2, and I'm sticking with Opera, only resorting to other browsers for compatability testing.

I'd rather use Mozilla, but I don't have time to wait for the mouse to catch up to me.

I realize a fast processor and gobs or RAM probably mitigates that, but NS4.76 (and every previous version of NS) got that part right; IE never did. Can we expect Mozilla to address this?

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Eil]

It would make sense that windows would be considered the primary platform, but I'm perfectly content with the Linux version. In fact, there are many things about the windows version that I dislike as compared to linux. (which is pretty much anything to do with the middle mouse button...)

Personally, my experience with some of the other bug fixers and reporters has been very positive in regards to linux-specific bugs. The Mozilla team is a very dedicated group of people who want to see this thing succeed.

Who Cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

Honestly, this long for a bulky browser?
A simple fast gui and browser is all anyone wants.
Even ie was better at this (they are bulky AND crashy, though).

If konqueror supported ssl properly (ie easily and automatically), and was smaller, and didn't start up startkde and other annoying stuff... Twould be sweet. ANd Nautilus just stinks. As does opera. stupid ads.

Re:Bitch, bitch, moan... oh look! 1.0! Yay Mozilla

[keramida]

Slashdot has what, 10,000 users?
Would you rather we all have the same opionion?

Oh my goodness! You don't mean they discovered yet another particle... the "opionion", the one that carries opinions from one particle to another, and helps us 'too large to be considered quantum objects' form opinions?

Tell me you don't mean THAT...

(BTW Mozilla rocks. I don't need to use Netscape anymore, when Moz is around. It has a few nasty bugs, but if 1.0 means less bugs, I'm all for it. Mozilla already does more than enough for me :-)

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Anonymous Coward]

You may be running artsd in kde that causes this problem (flash sites will hang mozilla).

Easy solution for this is to launch mozilla by doing "artdsp mozilla". This works without any problems.

Asymptoting... Is That Legal?

[alacqua]

I don't know if "asymptoting" is a word or not, but it sounds vaguely illegal.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Bnonn]

Heh, thanks, but when I said "page load speed" I was thinking of the actual bit-rate that the browser was downloading the page at. Opera has a nice function that tells me when I'm loading pages at 200 Bps...and I know I need to reconnect. Never mind; new ISP soon...

On the other hand, Opera doesn't tell you how long it takes to load the document like Mozilla does. Not sure which I'd consider more important. If I was on broadband, probably the latter. On dialup, as I am, probably the former.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Bnonn]

• So how long after Mozilla goes gold are we expecting Opera to stay around? You can't make money when another product is [better than/"good enough" relative to] your product.

Opera is adware; you can download and use it for free, but there's an ad banner in the toolbar. Actually I don't find it particularly obtrusive, but I have registered Opera nonetheless. However, Opera has a very strong presence in embedded systems, and is the standard browser on some new Nokia phone (check opera.com for more precise info; I can't recall the exact details).

The main advantage Opera has is how lightweight it is, as mentioned by another poster. This makes it ideal for mobile devices and slow computers. Also, remember that even if Mozilla had/gets all the features Opera has, I'm still not sure I'd switch. I find Opera's increased responsiveness (perceived or not) to be a strong motivation to keep using it over Mozilla. Maybe I just don't like programs that make my computer feel slow...I'm running an Athlon ~900 MHz with 512 MiB of RAM. If I had less RAM, I would also possibly choose Opera because it's been running all night and has six window tabs open (my site, submail.net, mozdev.org and three slashdot windows), and it's using 21,252 kiB of memory. Mozilla, which I just opened, has only two windows open (one of them my extremely lightweight site and the other the slashdot front page) and it's using 21,772 kiB of memory.

Depending on your needs and preferences, Opera and Mozilla have different attractions. I imagine Opera will remain in contention on the desktop for some time to come, but probably it will eventually fall from fame to some degree. In the embedded market though, it's got a decided advantage, and quite a headstart.

As for "You can't make money when another product is [better than/"good enough" relative to] your product"...why do you think that? I mean, take the obvious example of Windows 2000 Server and Linux. Microsoft still seems to be making a lot of money. Also remember that Opera is more targeted to Windows users than Mozilla is (at least, that's the impression I get). While breaking into the IE market on Windows is pretty hard, it's becoming easier due to Microsoft's appalling track record with IE--new holes are being reported literally every week on The Register , for example. I'm not sure about this last point, but I feel Windows users may also be more willing to pay for something than Linux users, since most of them are using a proprietary OS in the first place.

Just some thoughts. Personally I think Opera will maintain a presence on the desktop, but Mozilla and IE will comprise most of the market share.

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[Bnonn]

You're right. On many pages this is the case. It seems a little haphazard when it happens, but it's particularly obvious when browsing my own site under localhost. It happens more when loading a new page, but a fair amount when refreshing too. The reason this particularly bugs me is because often I make changes to some line of text on the site, and when I reload I keep my eye on the text so I can take a squiz at how the changes look. If it does the whole white-screen, pause thing, I lose the text and have to find it again (the white screen is probably the worst part because my main site has a dark blue bgcolor).

I don't notice this effect as much online, I must admit. I was particularly thinking of Mozilla in terms of web-development I suppose, and since I do that a lot and find Opera easier for it, I have a certain bias against Mozilla. Actually I'm quite impressed with how fast Mozilla loads the Slashdot frontpage; the incremental rendering is really helpful in this case.

Now, I'd better stop replying or people are gonna think I have nothing better to do with my life.

Cool

[Anonymous Coward]

That's great, but I think most *smart* users will wait for rc23 or rc24 before upgrading. ;-)

Re:I must admit that i didn't think it would happe

[flink]

Hey, come to think of it it doesn't. IIRC, Netscape 4.x had this feature. I think the aestitic with Mozilla's status line was to keep it clean rather than verbose.

Re:Subjects are gay. As are you, reader.

[flaw2]

It's true. I'm nothing more than "Big" Bill's toi boi.

But Netscape still sucks, and you're still just as gay as I am.

Gestures and preferences

[DJK]

For gestures, check out Optimoz. I tried it in an early stage and it seemed to work well, though I never got used to it.

For quick access to preferences, look at Preferences Toolbar. I seem to remember that MultiZilla also has quick access to common prefs.

Hope that helps!

Moz 2.0 wishlist

[DJK]

I just want configurable toolbars. :-(

That, and all the dataloss/crasher bugs fixed.

Not to the OS kernel, but to X11 server!

[Anonymous Coward]

Now we can finally integrate it into the kernel!

Not to the OS kernel, but to X11 server! And not all mozilla, just XPCE.

Imagine full control of your window frames, virtual desktops, panels, applets etc - all with XML and through the web! What a great life!

And then I am ready to imagine a lawsuit from GNOME and KDE for a lost market :)

Seriously, I still think that XPCE can do much more than just stupid web surfing. And I don't understand - why nobody notice that?!

What about XPCE?

[Anonymous Coward]

What's happend to XPCE? Why there is so much noise about Mozilla, which does just a stupid web surfing and nodbody notice that the real real estate here is XPCE.

XPCE/XPCOM model is great. It does what M$-win programmers love in M$-COM and why they don't want to hear about any *n*x.

I understand th fight for hearts of consumers. But how about "prosumers"? If we really want to win desktops for Linux, we should give something to desktop programmers.

Something, what? GNOME? KDE? It is really mis-advertisment. M$-COM programmers do not buy it. But XPCOM is very similar to the development environment they used to work! Give it them and they will love it, they will use it and create whole bunch of really cool really cross-platform applications.

What has to be done? Chil the hip of Mozilla web browser and heat the hip of XPCOM development environment