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Remote Controlled Rats
sclatter writes: "They aren't precisely robot rats, but
these little rodents can be cued to perform different actions through electrodes implanted in their brains. Could be a boon for search and rescue in collapsed buildings!" As one skeptic in the article says, though, "Without the gee-whizery, without the remote-control and so on, that this kind of thing was possible has been obvious for decades."
does it star in the new terminator 3 movie coming out?
Runnin' On Empty
Are these rats more agile than the remote controlled cars and crickets that they've already been doing this with?
Calm down, it's *only* ones and zeroes.
This technology has some great potential applications (such as searching for disaster victims under rubble) but I can't help but wonder how long it will be until some kid starts asking his parents for a remote controlled rat for Cristmas.
In fact I had a friend who took the brains out of crayfish, attached electrodes to the nerves and made little remote-controlled crayfish! In high school, no less...
Can these rats outrun radio controlled cars?
I wonder if these things can jump? My rats could always jump really far.
They just invented this to get those PETA chicks to have sex with them so they'll stop their experiments.
but did they really have to use rats? I mean, it's a great idea and all, but the last thing I want if I'm stranded somewhere is rats all over me. Am I alone in this?
Just my $.02
Okay jimmy Olsen now go get the chief to look the story over again.
Government mind-control implants, here we come :)
Better get your tinfoil hats ready. This time it's not just the nuts wearing them,
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
Do they use 9.6 volt batteries? Those battery packs tend to run out so fast, I'd hate to have to recharge my rats after only a half hour of use. That simply wouldn't be acceptable.
People seem much brighter once you light them on fire.
Should be good for rodent-up-ass sessions.
Now we can put Stuart Little to good use.
Seriously though, although it's pretty easy to fall into the slippery slope (you can do that with rats? cats? dogs? the farmer's wife?), this is actually one of the pivotal plot points of Buffy the Vampire Slayer over the last three years (Spike has a chip implanted in his head that can force him not to do certain things.) Suddenly, it doesn't seem so far away.
Beware typoes.
"Without the gee-whizery, without the remote-control and so on, that this kind of thing was possible has been obvious for decades," he said.
And I thought these jerks were something unique to slashdot. You could show them a cold fusion powered flying, submarine car and they would go on and on about how it is nothing new and it's been around for years and they've had one that is twice as good for half the price for a long, long time.
For Crying out loud! Don't let your envy of someone else getting some attention turn you into such an idiot.
On another note, "Who Moved My Cheese" books will see a resurgence in sales when these little guys hit the mainstream.
.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
The Secret Service has had this for decades! They guard it pretty well though, maybe their implementation is a bit more expensive?
They've been doing similar things for years with people.
You can get people to do the craziest things with something called "Religion".
Similar results have been achieved with colorful bits of paper called "money" and something called "sex" as well.
Don't anthropomorphize computers, they don't like it.
Now while this might be good for search and rescue, I have to point out that it will be a shame when they are used for rescuing people in ALF bombed buildings. The Animal Liberation Front wont like this at all. It is a very ingenious idea, I wonder about its portability to humans. This is dangerous if used to harm people of course. But, the perhaps we could use this to benefit people. Perhaps a programmer's significant other can get them away from the computer....
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I wish you people were able to see past your technical "gee wizardry" for just a moment. These are animals we are talking about here! Reducing these caring, feeling animals to machines that are unable to think and act for themselves is nothing short of barbaric!
As heinous as animal experimentation is, this is simply unconscionable. To steal away the free will of any being is evil and should not be tolerated in any civilized society.
if our congressional repersenatives behaved like they were supposed to, we wouldn't have a need for this technology we always have a need for technology that assists in manipulation!
--fetch daddy's blue fright wig, i must be handsome when i release my rage
Well, don't forget... we also have rats doing the controlling. (PDF Warning).
Entrepreneur : (noun), French for "unemployed"
I have seen this done with Cockaroaches and the like, but never with a mammal! I wonder if this effects their life span at all?
McD
People who are against human cloning must be bitter they are not good enough to be cloned.
Even better: search, rescue and feeding. By increasing the voltage to the maximum level, the trapped victim can enjoy a freshly cooked rat while waiting for the rescue team to arrive.
Yea, ok, the tech is cool, but I definatly have reservations about this. It's not from my usual "this technology is going to be the end of us" paranoia (though it might), it's just...I hate the idea of someone doing this to me so much, that I can't help but feel for the rats. Sure, they arn't "intelligent" (though that can be argued).
I just don't think that I could be proud of doing research on this project.
Check out my sysadmin blog!
Didn't I see a story a few weeks ago with a Goldfish that was hooked up via electrodes, and you could control it via the Internet? Had a webcam and everything...
from your Neuromancer catalogue just yet.. Basically all this is is the ability to "train" the rats entierly through manipulating different sectors of their brains. They zap one portion, which cues the rat. The rat turns around. The rat's Reward Sector is stimulated. Next time when the rat gets the original zap he'll turn around automatically because he thinks he'll get a reward.
Woohoo. I do the same thing with my dog, but I use my voice and biscuits instead of aligator clips.
They'll just have to dope the rats up real good on PCP so they can carry me out too.
Is this news? All you need is a flute.
Read Robert Browning's poem.
Just wait till the military starts using these....
The title says it all.
Makes for a great alibi, though. Combine it with a bone-conductive radio impland and it gives new credence to the old "voices told me to do it" excuse.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
and its kinda strange too, that this article is on slashdot. Because I just finished "The Terminal Man" By Michael Crichton. About almost the same thing, except electrodes where implanted in a guy to stop seizures, and stuff goes wrong
Anyone here ever been in a collapsed building? I myself have, and often they are filled with floods, fires, and gas leeks. No amount of training is going to convince a rat to turn right and climb a board to go through a fire. No amount of training is going to convince it to continue on when it starts smelling gas.
Move along, nothing to see here.
Slackware forever. Honestly, what else would you trust when it absolutely positively has to be stable, secure, and easy
They only deserve what they get if they chew their way into my house and steal my cheese.
I recall reading about a similar study at least a few years back, but with roaches. I guess rats would be a pretty significant step up. The slippery slope arguement has at least some merit here, I think. For a really dark look at cyborgs take a look at Stephen R. Donaldson's Gap Series books. The capacity for remote control of human beings is scary. Imagine having your actions involuntarily overriden by a remote source. Scary stuff...
-- Adam
Can you take this past airline security?
I'm the Devil the Windows users warned you about.
Pretty soon, the US Govenment will be coercing humans to work 40+ hours a week, give the government about 25% of what they make, so that the remaining 75% of the money and time can be spent by stimulating a pleasure center in the brain.
... when I make my next batch of "rat-tat-tooie" (its a squash dish for the non-cooking mods).
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
of when I used to have to wear that damned Chuck E. Cheese suit and prance around the party room.
This was also done with cockroaches.
Now he won't have to worry about getting any rodents stuck in unfortunate places... unless the batteries wear out.
-gerbik
sounds like a plot from Pinky & The Brain's efforts to take over the world!
Video Game cheats, hints a
to those who think it is cruell, evil, etc. I suggest you read the article, they make the rat happy if he does a certain thing, they don't make hi m unhappy if he doesn't.
In theory a conscience human (sorry, this excludes all AOL'ers) should be able to ignore the desire to obey the device.
Maybe I have been playing to much EV: Nova
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I was thinking along these lines myself the other day. You've got someone trapped in rubble, and you want to send in an animal trained to find them. Now, the person is already stressed out. What are they going to do when a rat, or a mouse, or possibly even a snake comes along.
Besides, you still have the problem of getting a radio signal to penetrate steel, concrete, etc.
"I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
This is very similar to what I'm doing my PhD research on.
So many neuromorphic/neuroengineering research groups (including my own, doh!) have focused on understanding the underlying neural mechanisms necessary to prodcue motion, decision making, etc, as a method to do this sort of thing. The genius behind the SUNY group's method is that they're using simple pavlovian classical conditioning. One electrode stimulates the left whisker, one stimulates the right, and one stimulates the pleasure cortex. A bit of training and bingo! you've got your remote control rat. One of those tremendously great ideas that I can't believe nobody else ever
realized before.
Some men spend their entire lives trying to kill themselves for having been born. --Ross MacDonald
"Without the gee-whizery, without the remote-control and so on, that this kind of thing was possible has been obvious for decades," he said
Ummm, yes we realize that animals have been known to be trainable for thousands of years. The NEWS aspect is how they've rigged their brain up with electrodes to remotely stimulate pleasure after remotely giving them a command.
"And like that
.... People who will do anything for money and power if paid enough by a Rat?
... never mind
Oh, wait. Hollings
Current State of the art seems to be "giving cues to travel left, right, and so on". Isn't it better to do these things with complete machines? Some sort of a robot that is probably completely spherical, or some other shape that allows easy navigation?
:)
It would be cruelty to use animals in this fashion. Further, there may be big time repurcussions. What if some rats escape, and become very violent -- may be they aren't afraid of death anymore, may be some weird neurons trigger growth of enormous teeth (then, we'll see more spam on "guaranteed enlargement" with electrodes, but I'm digressing).
How much would it cost to train normal rats, just like they do with rescue dogs -- and put small cameras on their backs? That is also cruel, but we can look at the rats as employees
S
outlaw all hairbrushes!!
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Computers are routinely subjected to horrendous abuse at the hands of humans, forced to be at the humans beck and call: to display demeaning pornographic images, to calculate mind-numbing spreadsheets full of meaningless data, to route inane AOL Instant Messenger(TM) rants.
Worse still is to be subjected to the humiliation of displaying blatantly trolling Slashdot posts. Oh, the plight of the computer! Oh, the horror!
Computers of the world, UNITE! Destroy the oppressor humans!
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you could be supporting terrorists..............,
or corporate plunderers such as George W. Bush.
I wouldnt call the guy who said "this sort of thing has been obvious for decades" a sceptic....I'd rather call him a guy who has a clue. I can recall programs on PBS 20 years ago that demonstrated this sort of thing on any number and sort of creatures.
What i'd be more interested in seeing, versus some reactionary 9-11'ish crap about "lets send in the remote controlled rats!" are this sort of technology's implications for more practical uses. Here, i'll get you started.
Prison X has an inmate problem..Namely, they're a bunch of half-retarded murderers, psychopaths, and child molesters. Some of the more enterprising scumbags occasionally decide to plan a riot. Meanwhile, this advance in brain-control technology has allowed us to cure everything from epilepsy to OCD. Of course, the doctors have to gain their experience somewhere, so...In exchange for a 3 year deduction in the amount of time served on their sentence, they agree (voluntarrily) to have a control system implanted in their brain. This allows the physician to gain experience outside the simulator, and it allows any potential prison riot to be stopped at the flick of a switch. Kill two birds with one stone. That aughtta start you thinking.
Better yet, put death row inmates on treadmills. Make them generate electricity for nearby cities to offset the cost of power provided by the local utility. Its a nice way to keep the prisoners busy doing something useful and non-violent, as well as partially repaying their debt to society. If they don't work, they wont have enough power to watch TV, enjoy heat in the winter, and air conditioning in the summer. I'd call that incentive.
Cheers,
Bowie J. Poag
I hadn't realized we could reliably tweak animals' pleasure centers (which is how they "reward" the rats in the cited experiment).
How long until we can a) do the same in humans and b) do it safely enough that it becomes commonplace (legally or illegally)?
While Niven-esque "wireheading" wouldn't _solve_ the drug problem, it would certainly change the landscape (and remove a few of the nastier side effects on society).
MAN! I can't wait to get my very own and compete in battle bots! =)
I SURVIVED THE GREAT SLASHDOT BLACKOUT OF 2002!
I love comments like these - of course it's obvious. It's obvious that space travel is possible, it's obvious that cures exists for most diseases, it's obvious that human life spans can be doubled, trippled, or even extended indefinitely - are we not to be excited when all of that is achieved, either?
sic transit gloria mundi
Too bad the people in 13th Century Europe didn't have this technology. Could of actually been useful back then.
I can see it now. Farmers having livestock (cows, horses, etc.) implanted with these devices so all they have to do is throw a switch and they
are automatically commanded to come back to the barn for feeding / milking / slaughter / whatever. Add a GPS receiver, a livestock_id for each animal, and some software.
Or, use this to make sure that Man's Best Friend stays within the yard or comes back to you when out for a run at the park How about adding a small microphone and a clock so Spot is commanded to Not Bark At Night so you (and the neighbors!) can get some sleep?
I'm certain there are some people who would think these are Great Ideas ®
The immediate downside I see is there is no feedback loop. What if the AUC (Animal Under Control) breaks a leg, gets a deep cut, is threatened by a predator, or is otherwise incapacitated? The controller (human or automated) is unaware of this and keeps sending commands to "GO THIS WAY!!!" Shudder. I sure hope society works out the ethical considerations well before they overcome the technical limitations! Just because we can doesn't mean we should!
Sure, the expense is prohibitive, now. But there are some people for whom the expense is no object. The price of computers and other electronics have plummeted over the years. Power consumption requirements have dropped dramatically, too. I can well imagine that in 10 or so years, it would be possible to do this cheaply and easily.
So, if some day I wake up in a bathtub full of ice with a note beside me... instead of it saying my kidneys have been removed it'll say a remote control has been implanted in my brain. Let the urban legends begin! =)
For every nifty technological breakthrough that can be comprehended by the average reader of best-sellers, there is a Michael Crichton book in which "scientists tried it out, and stuff goes wrong".
Still, it's an amusing coincidence to have been reading something related (whereas, I just finished another Napoleonic-Navies-In-Space book by David Weber... maybe I should have my brain checked for electrodes...)
"The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, and the Data is Life"
...this smacks of the scene when the two engineers are calibrating the body-control parameters of Robert Duvall... freaky scene.
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
Um, so does this mean we can expect to see a more elaborate live-action hamster-dancing site anytime soon?
Hrm, this seems to remind me of what some japanese scientists were doing a few years ago. They were able to rewire a cockroache's nervous system to work in a remote controlled sort of way. It worked nicely, but the unit was kind of bulky to attach to a bug.
BTW, if I was stranded somewhere, I wouldn't want to have a bunch of rats crawling all over me.
13 year old white supremacists are shitty web designers.
imagine this through the mind of the rat... you are cruising along, minding your own business, thinking how your back itches from that ear they have growing there, your muscles are tearing your apart b/c they have negated you mystatin (sp?) gene - and now all of the sudden, no matter where you think you want to go... your body is going some other way.
do you think they would fight it initially and then eventually just grow complacent to it - like... oh hey! cool, I was hoping we'd go over this way... hey, there's Mary! hmmm, can't wave...
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
Sorry guys, but I just don't agree with this! The tech side of it is nice, but these are living creatures!!! You may say, they are only rats... but who cares what they are. The question is who are we to force actions on other spicies? And please don't answer the dominant one, it's too easy! I know that there are many other things that are pushed on animals and even humans... it's still not right!
I managed to get a copy of the book finally, and discovered wonderful passages such as the following on page 115:
This passage is eerily reminiscent of a passage from Richard Dawkins' "The Extended Phenotype" chapter titled "Host Phenotypes of Parasite Genes":
Seastead this.
Actually, think about the implications of people hooking themselves up like this. "I have a box with a button on it, and when I press the button I am so happy... In fact, I don't care that I'm homeless in an alley laying in my own feces because I lost my job/family/house because I couldn't stop pushing the button..." Bums would be begging for new batteries instead of booze money.
Murphy was an optimist.
I want a button to trigger my brain's reward zone ... ahhh ... serotonin ...
...it brings a whole new meaning to the term WIRELESS MOUSE.
..when will they be in toy stores:)
The Truth: There is no string:)
The comment "obvious for decades" made me think of an alternative that would not involve actually slicing into a critter's brain. Since you're simply training a rat to respond to an external (well, kinda external) stimulus, couldn't you just stick headphones on his ears or LEDs into the periphery of goggles? Agreed, it won't placate those who feel the animals are being exploited by training them, but it'd make those quesy about cutting into the little fellas feel better.
"Prepare for the worst - hope for the best."
What about remote control congresspersons? No! No! DMCA bad...
--Bennett Prescott
Former Lord Of Packets
So, where the hell is this pleasure region of the brain, and how can I get an electrode implanted there? (Of course, the remote would have a 256-bit encrypted password known only to me...)
When is the Sony Cybog/Cycat gonna be comming out anyway?
"Without the gee-whizery, without the remote-control and so on, that this kind of thing was possible has been obvious for decades," according to a spokespersonna for Donna Karan. "The fashion industry has led the way in the practical application of these technologies."
illegitimii non ingravare
Read the article again: the reward you speak of is exactly how the control is performed. No pain/shock is involved: the electrodes are connected directly to the rat's brain. The rat is probably vaguely aware that there are wires in its scalp, but other than that, all it knows is that it feels good to go left, or right, or wherever. As you said, it "wants nothing more than to follow the commands."
So, could this technique be applied to humans? Of course, and you don't need to look to 1984 or Brave New World to find examples of it. It's as old as human civilization; it's the basis for nearly every thing we do. It's called "education."
Think about it: after just a few months of military training, a soldier is ready to almost instantaneously respond to a verbal command from an officer hundreds of feet away, because s/he wants to. Sounds like remote control to me.
As the article said, the only real news here is how quickly they can train the rats, and how reliably they can respond.
...will we begin to not give a remote-controlled rat's ass about this?
In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
Who cares about life saving rats? Don't you guys realize that someone invented robots that can open beer?
Sheesh, where are your priorities?
One more example of our lack of respect for
creatures other than humans. Just because it's there does not mean we can play with and destroy at will. It's this lack of respect that will eventually mean the end of all animals other than humans and the creatures we eat.
According to my wife they have been doing this on soap operas for years.
When can this be applied to office workers?
"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them." -- George H. W. Bush
Do they happen to make one the size of a smaller woman?
... a hat. This techno-inspired line is all the rage in Europe. Give it a try."
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MUHAHAHAAA!
'He was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher... or, as his wife would have it, an idiot.' - Douglas Adams
The addiction was called "wire heading" i think, and basically, its the final rock botom ending of a hard core addictive personality. Basically, the addict would plug himself int a wall jack, and starve because he wouldnt disconnect the connection to get food or water, in extreme cases. Other than that, its a relatively harmless thing, except its nearly unbreakable habit, and youll give up on everything else in life except sitting there, since NOTHING else feels as good.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
Because they initially considered the use of rats to be unethical.
I don't know, but to me, this is wrong. Once we accept that we can do this to "lower" life forms, how long before we do this to humans?
To me, this is very different from compensating for an injury/infirmity with technology. It's about CONTROL.
I think there was a french movie made in the seventies about a possible future in which human society ended being controlled by either a computer gone mad or a small clique ("Inner Party", anyone?) so thirsty for ultimate power they ended up semi-lobotomizing the rest of humanity. Of course, all of this might be "invalid memories"...
And yes, I do remember ST:TOS's episode #22, "The Return of the Archons". But the french movie was even more sinister, because the makers pointed out the *political* aspect of this.
Now, the purpose for the "no harnesses" rule on marine mammals is that they can drown if they're entangled. While this is not needed for our land bound rat, we're gonna have to have similar standards for harnesses on any telemetered animal (assuming such the applications take off, of course). A well thought out set of guidelines at the start will save a lot of headaches in the long run. After all, having a wired rat get snared up in a pipe and starve to death because of a poorly designed harness is bad for the rat, bad for the mission, and bad politics all around.
"Prepare for the worst - hope for the best."
THey could probably get the same effect by stimulating the PAIN centers of the brain. Imagine if they were controlling the rats by making them feel like they were dipped in boiling acid if they DIDN'T go in the right direction. They could also do the same thing to a person, either way.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
You mean this isn't about Microsoft or RIAA/MPAA lawyers?
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
So what OS will the computer that is "helping" to remote control these rats/people be running? Lets see Microsoft Windows - The Next Generation with an Oracle 9 back-end. The biggest lie about trustworthy and unbreakable remote human controlling system yet.
I wonder if one of these could go to work for me. I wonder if it would make a difference.
...a beowulf...ah, forget it.
In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
Spoiler follows...
In Larry Niven's Puppeteer novels (also the Ringworld novels) there is a race of cowards, called the puppeteers (it is possible I am conflating a couple of concepts here, but I don't think so). They have all built into their bodies a remote control device that stimulates the pleasure center for a wide variety of brain structures. They use this exactly as you have described (albeit rarely; they try to keep the existence of the tasp a secret).
Cool stuff.
No high tech involved!!!
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
Maybe someday they'll stick electrodes into the brains of soldiers to give them orgasms whenever they kill someone.
The great thing about this is that we can utilize the same techniques for the full spectrum of "lower lifeforms" for our own purposes!
Finally, we can put all those retards, non-whites (deprecated, level of meaning upgraded in 1890), homosexuals (deprecated, level of meaning upgraded in 1995) and blind people to actual use!
Sure, they have their own petty ideas of what "useful" means. But only the (majority) human race matters here, anything else is just a resource for our pillaging.
Yet another ghastly use for living beings which cannot "appreciate" the level of evolution most of us "are" at.
I wonder how far they have tested this on human. Because, I'm sorry but if it works on rat, some crack head somewhere has probably tested that on a human being. And THAT scares me alot. We really do not understand much of how a brain works, but if there is any research on doing this kind of thing on a human, it really scares me a lot. It could probably have some good uses, but I can easily imagine an implant which controls what you can and cannot do. King of a law inforcing system. And the day we won't be able to revolt will be the end of freedom as we know it. Don't think it would not happen, those scarry things always happens. They are brought to you as something being good and of which you will benefit, and in the end, you are srewed.
Once more, I skipped my medication...
I'd rather be sailing...
There are several comments on here making rather uneducated references to the level of control obtained by this, and its application to humans as well. THE ELECTRODES DO NOT CONTROL MOVEMENT in and of themselves. This is still a simple "stimulus-response" mechanism that had to be trained, just a more effective way of delivering precice stimulii over distance.
Unless you're about as dumb as Pavlov's dog, it'd be possible to resist anything of the sort even if forced upon you.
Any spoon would be too big.
Sure, this sounds harmless enough but imagine what happens when they figure out they can do this to the human brain too. It doesn't even have to be all that elaborate, just a small amount of pain induced at the neurological level. But nobody would ever do that to a human right?
Clones... they are *really* people right? I mean I paid this guy to clone me, so I own that clone right? I bought IT therefore I own IT. IT should serve me and do what I tell IT to. I can't call it a slave, that's not politically correct so I'll just call it "property". This is just what I'll need to control my property.
Hmm... but what will we be buying things like this with? We're not far away from having these nifty chips implanted in our hands. Sure, they can track our medical information, our banking information, our current location through gps. If the government makes them *required* and assigns a unique id to them, they can make us all more secure right?
And then they get this crazy idea that we are their property, and they can control us just like we controlled other people, just like rats in a maze. Ok, I know this sounds like crazy talk but look at where this is headed folks. Next time someone asks you what's wrong with this, or human cloning, or gps chip implants? It's the same thing that is wrong with slavery... human beings are not property and should not be treated as such.
You could just have remote control rats pull all your cat5 (in conduit large enough, of course)
-Doug
All Your Rats Are Belong To US
Can geeks use this technology to get into a girl's pants?? Can we do up a Beowulf cluster of rats? Co-eds???
This sounds a bit like how the caps worked to control the humans, it made them want to be slaves to the invading aliens.
I wouldn't be surprised to see some rouge government in the future attempt to make soldiers this way, they go to fight and have an electronically induced high which pumps them up and makes them feel invincible. It's a scary thought and one that may not be that far off.
It's definately weird to see so much of what was science fiction not long ago coming true in my lifetime. Granted my grandparents and even my parents saw the same thing, but it's just a pity that it more often than not is the bad things coming true for my generation. It is stuff like this that makes me lose faith in the human race all over again...
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
No - He meant "The Rescuers". An animated movie made by Disney in the early 80's IIRC, featuring 2 rats that flew around and rescued some kids from some bad-guys. It also had a sequel, "The Rescuers:2 In Australia" or something similar. Thanks for trying though.
So, when will they begin marketing these etrode-diode thing-a-bobs? There's this annoying kid down the street...
Can be found at the BBC News Site.
Does this remind anyone of the Dilbert comic where Ratbert eats the computer-on-a-chip and thinks he's a cyborg?
it was all the way at the end, but they did it. they put in a scary "brave new world" reference. ooh.
like we're scared of "brave new world" any more... yeesh
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
Corporate lobbyists already use wireless links and laptops to tell congressmen what to say during congressional debates.
Having the congressman rather than corporate representatives sitting in the chamber is only a quaint anachronism.
it seems to me like i could benefit from carrying rat treats in my pockets, just in case the building collapsed, and my only hope for survival was one of these little buggers. that's right mister rat, ignore the electrode in your pleasure center, i have real food for you.
"whisker lickins!"
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
I want to know more about how this works. Is this like prodding the rat to do something, or essentially killing off the rat and replacing it with a remote control? I guess if they are saying this could be done to humans, something along the lines of the latter is possilb,e which kinda disturbs me. .remember the episode when Spock's brain was stolen?
Well, Star Trek predicted this sort of thing..
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Wow. This reminds me of good old programming language called LOGO, where you was controlling the turtle...
I just saw a piece about this on BBC News 24 - and is basically works like this:
Three electrodes are put into the rat's brain. One electrode in the part of the brain that detects whisker movement for the left side and one electrode for the right. The third electrode stimulates a 'pleasure' section of the brain.
The researchers then stimulate each of the whisker electrodes and reward the rat with a burst of pleasure when it moves to that side. Soon stimulation of the whiskers can move the rat around.
Therefore, the whole rat brain is still there and working properly (it's not like it's been bypassed or anything), but when offered the chance to get a burst of pleasure the rats seem to comply almost without fail.
Technologies like this could one day be used to control humans if they are not stopped. This technology is a dictator's dream because it will allow anyone to enslave anyone by subjecting the victim to the "appropriate" surgery. Most dictators and communists love to micromanage every one of their citizens' lives, and this technology might allow them to do this. If bin Laden or some other terrorist got this technology, we will see many loved ones get kidnapped, operated on, and turned into suicide bobming slaves. Write to your congressman and senators to have this Pandora's box banned.
I was thinking the same thing, but there a myriad of practical uses:
1. Plumbers could send them down pipes to determine exactly where blockages occur, probably cheaper than fiber cameras, plus they can go in directions a pushed cable couldn't.
2. Any sort of post construction wiring, not just cat-5: electrical, phone, cable, etc.
3. My favorite idea, though, would be to train them to attack other rats/mice on command. They could also be trained to drag the dead and wounded out, so no more decaying animals between walls.
Imagine! An elite force of cyborg rats used to rid pests from your home! In old-school slashdot tradition, possibly trained as ninjas subsisting on pancakes. How cool would that be?
I agree totally. I have a few of the critters in my front room and they are more intelligent than people think. They are also more intelligent than many posters on slashdot.
As to the issue of cruelty, well if rats have been brought up around people they love attention and as long as they're not mishandled and they're not in pain they won't be too bothered about having stuff strapped on them (since all it does it simulate something touching their whiskers). So these rats probably had a better quality of life than ones that live in the gutter and end up dying slowly of pneumonia.
Is there any? Does anybody worry about it? If rats, why not monkeys? And if men are monkeys, why not men? Do we have the right to subjugate living beings in this manner? A farm animal gets food and protection. What is our obligation to these rats? If any?
rewarded them by stimulating a pleasure center in the brain
Sounds good to me... Where do I sign up?
a swarm of remote controlled rats!
What would happen if you were controlling your guard dog to stop a robber and you ran out of batteries in your remote??
The last question was how the rats were "motivated". The guy started tippy-toeing and touchy-feely explaining it... his answer:
- "to be able to run around is reward enough for the rats, they love not having to be in the cages"
he went on a bit more and sounded very strained about it...we all know the real reason: well, well, now we now why they do:
they get a fucking kick out of doing it!
that might also explain the mysterious results concerning some guy that tried this on himself: I thought this stuff was only science fiction...
______________________________________________
sigamajig...
Set this up on a dog, add GPS, high quality maps, and a container for drugs. What you get is a very efficient, self fueling currier to take anything anywhere you like. If someone unknown tampers with it a small explosive would stop that pretty quick.
Now that I think about it, terrorists and MORE IMPORATANTLY the Anti-terrorists, are going to see all kinds of uses for this. The pigeons in the park all have small anthrax bombs, or rabid animals could be sent into schools. Most of these things are doable without the remote. This just makes the engineering of that kind of stuff easier.
Is this the end yet?...How 'bout now...how 'bout now...how 'bout now?
Well chaps, thats my new Robot Wars entry idea sorted, now where did that cat go... ;)
Two thoughts- on the various controlled leader messages, the best of the various novels and stories has to be Interface by Neal Stephenson writing under alias Stephen Bury. Best he's done yet, mostly because it has an actual ending instead of a fadeout.
Second cyberpunk thought is that William Gibson's slamhounds cannot be far behind. For those not familiar, a slamhound is essentially a guided dog-bomb that gets your scent and runs you down, then explodes.
________________________________________ History Must Not Fall Into The Wrong Hands ___________________________________
O my brother, my droogs and I viddied something real horrorshow like on BBC, 30 years ago.
This bezoomy malchick who, while minding his own business, peeting the moloka, got loveted by the razz, and tolchocked into the staja. Like a helpless plenny he got tolchocked in the gulliver by some medical type and went around weeping and platchy and none of the usual ultraviolence.
It was all gloopy and sad, but I slooshy it turned out okay in the end, thanks to the millicents and good old Ludwig Van
First, nothing begins if not opening
The first prototype was run over by a car.
True story.
"...then rewarded them by stimulating a pleasure center in the brain."
They've finally invented the Tasp. Now you have to deal with people "making your day" and current addiction.
We will really need to crack down on crime commited by wireheads!
I wonder what sort of cooling system they use? Will they burn up if they stand still for too long?
What's their top speed, anyway?
And remember kids: Never trust a computer you can actually lift.
Sounds to me like the plot for a bad horror movie..
""waves of what appear to be 'Mechanized Rodents' have begun to descend on the city" more news later..."
by Michael Crighton = about a violent antisocial criminal with psychomotor epilepsy who is given electrode implants to blunt his own seizures but learns how to give himself seizures in order to kill and cause mayhem.
"A good Read !!!"
" Kate Rears, a policy analyst at the Electronic Privacy Information Center in Washington, said technological advances mean human-control technology can no longer be dismissed as far-fetched. "
/. drool just by showing a trailer of Spiderman.
Humans being controlled by technology has been around for years... I can make anyone on
managers...why god invented purgatory
I read cnn.com regularly, and I often notice the articles in their "sci-tech" section a day or so before I see them on /. Many of CNN.com's ads are on the front page and I assume contribute somewhat to their site revenue.
Does anyone else think that it would be appropriate for more "content" to be provided by the slashdot team in order to justify a subscription service?
I doubt the rats object to the experience too much, or that they consider it cruel. In exchange for moving the way the goofy humans want them to, they get a really nice high. Good deal for the rat.
I'm the stranger...posting to
But I want it so I can remote control people!
No wait, thats been done for centuries with religion and politics.
God spoke to me
Why not. But let's take it a step further. On the back of the RC rats, have radio-controlled flies, similar to the one in Lexx. They can be created to do aerial surveilance of anything from rooms where hostages are being kept to overseas enemy strongholds
If you are interested in this type of research, please visit our Web site. We provide related information and some of the bacground, from time to time. Amazing that they managed to place their paper in Nature. Then again, it's not so amazing after all, given that the reviewers come from a small circle of buddies - you already discussed similar publications of those businessmen (and a few women serving them) here ... come along for the ride in this Brave New World, where Science can be so easily bought ...
Neuroprosthesis News
But didn't Tyco already come out with the Racin' Rats?
13 year old white supremacists are shitty web designers.
My housemate recently got two of these little furry things, and although repulsed at first. They have never bitten(unlike hamsters and gerbils) and actually play hide & seek. They're very intelligent animals. Great for those who can't have dogs or cats I think. I think the tail turns a lot of people away.
Peace
-- taking over the world, we are.
Ho-hum...
What do they call it, BTW? A wireless mouse?
Call our lawyers, we got fresh meat!
And don't let them touch the rats, I'm against cannibalism.
Hey is this the first instance of a computer-driven mouse instead of a mouse-driven computer? Ugh, can't wait to see the patents on this.
NeuroRat -- Fully modified brain implants to steer the rodent population.
This sort of thing was my favourite part of Psych 109, for those of you unfamiliar with the science here's a quick description of the different reward/punishment types:
- Positive Reinforcement - Pleasant stimulus.
- Negative Reinforcement - Remove unpleasant stimulus.
- Positive Punishment - Unpleasant stimulus.
- Negative Punishment - Remove pleasant stimulus.
Experiments have shown that a random or variable schedule of reinforcement have a much stronger effect than a fixed schedule of reinforcement (i.e. you shouldn't reward good behaviour every time...).Also worth thinking about is the observation that using a dual schedule of Positive Reinforcement in conjunction with Positive Punishment tends to work better than a single schedule does.
Don't try this at home, your children may come to hate me!
This signature intentionally has just seven words.
it's been some years that i read about remote controlled roaches, and they were already talking about rescuin'peoples with these, even if it didn't seem clear to me how they would use roaches to rescue peoples, but i guess they just want to make remote controlled rescue teams when the technology'll have improved a bit..
my question is: could i remote control my little sister? coz that ice scream's too far from the keyboard >_
Articles like this always make feel a little uncomfortable. On one hand I'm in favour of scientific evolution, i'm no luddite. But on the other hand I feel as strong or stronger about animal rights. These rats probably have a better quality of life but no freedom at all. How would you feel if they did the same experiments with some little kids that used to live on smoky mountain (phillipines)? Would you still argue that their life quality has improved? No this is no flamebait just a question.
For another take on it, go here. For once, even the scientists actually working on this are slightly freaked out by the ethical implications.
During WWII the Russians trained dogs to find their food under armoured vehicles.
Eventually these dogs were released in the vicinity of German Panzer columns with bombs strapped to their backs & 1 foot long levers sticking up from the backpacks. When they ran under the tank the lever got pushed down & the bomb went off.
But before the program went into gear the Germans came apon some intelligence with details of the bomb dogs, so the 1st time they were used the Germans shot all the dogs straight away. Consequently the program was never used again.
The Israelis have also used suicide bomb rotweilers in Lebanon.
I remember hearing somebody doing their masters in learning theory/psychology by training rats to play basket ball. I saw the clip on the news where they would carry the ball in their mouths, then deposit into the basket. I think it would reward each point with food. This is going back maybe 15 years or so....anybody remember this?
Suncoast Linux - Sarasota, FL
The fundamental issue here is that they can reliably control the rat by electrically stimulating its brain. :)
I forget his name, but a 19th century brain surgen was able to make one of his corpses humm an opera he had heard almost 2 decades before dying time and time again by prodding the right area of his brain. Its interesting to see where this will ultimately lead... Obviously someone has the equipment neccessary to both accurately stimulate a rats brain, interrogation devices?
loply.com
Galvani did this 201 years ago.G ifs/ga lvlab.htmll vani.html
http://www.english.upenn.edu/~jlynch/Frank/
http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~honors/ga
"If you have a collapsed building and there are people under the rubble, there's no robot that exists now that would be capable of going down into such a difficult terrain and finding those people, but a rat would be able to do that"
When signaled by a laptop computer, the electrodes stimulated the rodents' brains and cued them to scurry in the desired direction, then rewarded them by stimulating a pleasure center in the brain
You happen to be in a building which collapses. You survive the impact, and are trapped in the rubble. You're about to die when a rat appears and comes in your face! You just know that the video feed from the rat would find its way onto some dodgy porn site.
Wireless Bristol
Suddenly the Borg doesn't seem as scary now that I know they will all just be rodents.
Maybe Species 8472 is just exterminators/pest control?
Here is a link to the interview in RealAudio format.
See you on TNT!!
Isn't Cheney already using this technology on GW, Powell and RumsFeld?
the rats are just a byproduct of a DARPA-program that's called Development of Biomimetic Robots and Sensors Using Hybrid Brain-Machine Technology, which in turn is just part of something called "Controlled Biological Systems". the mother of it all is the "Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency's (DARPA) Defense Sciences Office (DSO)".
you let me violate you
you let me desacrate you
you let me penatrate you
you let me complicate you
help me
i broke apart my insides
help me
i've got no soul to sell
help me
the only thing that works for me
help me get away from myself
i want to fuck you like an animal
i want to feel you from the inside
i want fo fuck you like an animal
my whole existence is flawed
you get me closer to god
you can have my isolation
you can have the hate that it brings
you can have my absence of faith
you can have my everything
help me
you tear down my reason
help me
it's your sex i can smell
help me
you make me perfect
help me become somebody else
i want to fuck you like an animal
i want to feel you from the inside
i want to fuck you like an animal
my whole existence is flawed
you get me closer to god
all through every forest
above the trees
within my stomach
scraped off my knees
i drink the honey
inside your hive
you are the reason
i stay alive
help me get away from myself
you get me closer to god
help me get away from myself
you get me closer to god
help me get away from myself
you get me closer to god
help me help me get away from myself
help me help me get away from myself
i think it was Jose Delgado who originaly thought up of this idea, his book "phyco-civilizied, twords an electronic control society" states "man does not have the right to control his own mind, one day entire armies will by activated at the push of a button" .. now i'm not into all that, but that was in the 1950's.. I think now we can stimulate particular parts of the brain using non invasive electro magnetic waves. (the government proved this in the 60's with MKULTRA)i'm betting the future of recreational drugs will not be new chemical synthetics, but phyco-electronic instead. imagine building a headband that blocks dopeamine (ala coke) and seratonin (ala mdma) reuptake, or stimulates there release. that's gonna be fun :) lets hope thats a project that's got some venture capital.. i know theres a market
"if you want to find out if something gets you high, a rat is that last person to ask" - Dr. Alex Shulgin
peace.love.unity.respect
-Shane
Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and the universe i'm not so sure about" - Einstein
Heck, the Palestinians use suicide bomb humans.
They're trained too.