Slashdot Mirror
Advertising on a Free Wireless Network?
Mischievous0ne asks: "I had an idea yesterday, and I wanted to run it past the Slashdotcommunity. Would you use a honeypot (free wireless access point) that covered a large downtown area (3-4 blocks of restaurants, coffee bars, an iceskating rink, a small park, and general hangout) if you had to have a framed banner ad at the top of every page you visited while on the network? Do advertisers still pay for banner ads? Are banner ads, effective? I live in a college town in Indiana, and I know there are wireless users here, but the campus wireless network is severly limited. I'm also not sure how people would react to the banner ad space in exchange for free access."
Who cares what they think about banners.. They will use it regardless..
Sure I would. I still read slashdot....
-Tolerate my intolerance
to get in the way of my usage. Better to pay for the service, a la Starbucks/T-Mobile.
sulli
RTFJ.
what kind of advertisements you put up. For instance, if you were to advertise goatse, I'm sure the neighborhood would object to it. However, advertisements for rummage sales or town meetings might be greeted with arms wide open.
Do you mean banners like in the Opera?
I personally don't mind about them, but atleast among my friends I'm the only one who doesn't mind..
I would never use that...my integrity is too important.
Would you use a honeypot (free wireless access point) that covered a large downtown area (3-4 blocks of restaurants, coffee bars, an iceskating rink, a small park, and general hangout) if you had to have a framed banner ad at the top of every page you visited while on the network?
You mean, like, through a hidden proxy server deal? I dunno, I imagine it would fuck the layout and such of pages up quite a bit. I there would be for the logging/privacy concerns. But in theory, sure I guess...
Do advertisers still pay for banner ads? Are banner ads, effective?
No. No.
It would never work. Now, what town did you say you lived in?
I would try to find ways arround it...too annoying. Besides whats the point? What are the stats on people actually clicking those things anyway?
1. give something valuable out for free.
2. (nevermind technical, legal, and other liability issues)
3. (something involving banner ads.)
4. ???
5. profit!
This means all the wireless networks out there could become a revenue stream of the company hosting them!
I think this is a dangerous idea. I can name several companies that would enable this by default on all wireless connections if it were available. It would be a way to force users to help offset the cost of the wireless networks.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
If I want to avoid a banner, I can. If someone's going to pay to have the banner there, then that's their business. I can ignore them a lot easier than any of the other mentioned ad types.
Mordor...a magical, mythical land where women are more rare than dragons--but where every man would rather find a dragon
(1) they were only banner ads (no popups), and (2) if it didn't require adding any new software. Which would mean they'd have to use a transparent proxy.
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
They'd just bitch and moan and I'm sure whoever was running the network would make it more and more restrictive, start making advertisements more pervasive, and begin charging for "expanded services" that were at one time gratis.
:)
Anyone ever use Yahoo?
Sugapablo
How's their business been lately?
Not too good I would suspect.
And most of the other "free internet for ad" companies have already tanked.
Same idea, different mechanism will have the same results.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Netzero and other similar companies failed after many strong and repeated attempts to offer the same service, except through dial up. The idea sounds nice except for a couple of problems: no one ever clicks on banner ads (except the great slashdot ads, of course), and people will just find a way to keep the banner ad from displaying on the screen. I would love for your idea to work, but I just don't see that happening, given the past history of free internet access. Today, I don't think there is a single free ISP left (could be mistaken), and this is mostly due to a poor revenue model.
Sounds like a businessplan straight out of 1999. Just make sure when you move this business into an "office" there are razor scooters, ping pong tables and a masseuse, and you're all set.
Wouldn't the example of JUNO or NetZero be enough to detour something like this?
"This must be a Thursday, I never could get the hang of Thursdays."
People are used to banners, they're becoming like the voices you hear between songs on the radio telling you to head down to Joe's Pontiac dealership, and like commercials on tv. Its a way to keep everyone happy. I wouldn't pay 10 times the price to watch tv without commercials, or to browse the internet without ads.
Watch the Teaser Trailer for "The Lightning Thief" Her
Just as soon as I install my favorite popup/popunder/banner ad blocker. :)
No. honeypot != free wireless access point
A honeypot is a machine that looks suspectible to break-in but is monitored. It's used by sys admins and security "experts" to find out what techniques people use to break into machines.
If the banners don't bog down the overall operation I would.
http://nomoneydownnews.com/
Sure, banner ads are annoying, and would generally only disuade one from using the advertised product - but its a free wireless network. I think it would be taken advantage of, so long as it's in an area where one would WANT to get online (i.e. public park, downtown area).
Are you sure you're not confused about the meaning of a honeypot?
But sure, I'd use it, why not? But I'd probably try to block the ads.
It sounds like a very interesting idea to me, but how do you implement the frame? Is there an example ISP who frames what you're browsing? I believe typical implementation of such ad-based approaches involve customized browsers. That would be a pain in the ass to enforce, and restrict user choices. -g
as long as I am getting some extra service for free, I don't mind seeing ads. Although the online ad industry isn't money-making these days...with all this privacy-features in the latest browsers ;-)
>I'm also not sure how people would react to the >banner ad space in exchange for free access.
I know how I'd react: block those ads! Are you with me, everybody?
On a side note, I think the reason advertising on the internet gets such a negative response is that they are designed badly. Why do banners animate? Banners should not animate. Nor should things pop up/under what you are working on. People are just fine with the ads in magazines and such because they aren't constantly dancing around and flashing things at you. It's distracting, and detracts greatly from the reading experience. I'm sure static banners would raise a minimum of fuss in the average user.
I mean, we're predators, and our eyes are automatically attracted to movement. That's why good UI design calls for animation only when you want the users attention for something important.
Aww crap, I just answered my own question. I hate people.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Wait, isn't a "honeypot" a dummy system used to trap malicious crackers? Whatis.com seems to think so too.
Does the word "honeypot" now also mean a "free wireless access point?" Nobody tells me these things...
:wq
I would think that that would never work at a college campus. I would think that the majority of college student either know how to block that stuff, or have friends that will set it up. It would last for like a few months, the company would get little or no revenue, and it would die. Sounds like a nice idea though.
for a couple of minutes
-jon
Since when did a honeypot become a free wireless access point? Last time I checked the idea of a honeypot was to log and monitor the activities of Crackers.
For more Details on what a Honeypot REALLY is check out this page
If the banner said things "Would you like another coffee?" and the waitress would bring it within a couple of minutes I might even like it.
Otherwise I'd probably just ignore the banner.
If the adverts were too intrusive to ignore I'd stop using the service.
Locally relevant advertising, that's the thing.
"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them." -- George H. W. Bush
Honeypot is a term used in infosec circles to denote a machine left intentionally vulnerable to learn techniques of system crackers. What the fuck are you talking about?
1.) For the clarifications of others:
honeypot (free wireless access point)
Do not confuse a honeypot with a honeynet (the network with little security to watch for breakins).
2.) Look at Juno web. They allow free (modem) web access, and make a profit off the banner ads across the top of the browser.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
"Hey, all you people who read a free website even though it has banner ads, would you use a free wireless network even though it has banner ads?"
It worked for slashdot.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
Think about most cases you are using a public wireless network. You are probably in a hurry to check e-mail or anyway do something. Will you really click a banner ad? I don't think people will mind that much but they probably will not pay attention to them either - even less than banners on a regular network.
Are banner ads, effective?
About as effective as the comma in that sentence is I surmise.
People will accept banners as long as the service for which they are accessing the service/software/etc, is what they want.
The banners in this specific case should not pose a significant deterrent as long as they remain banners and not mandatory select-to-continue style banners where the users spend time before realizing they have to *do* something to get the ad to go away so they can proceed with their business.
Again, the service is where the focus needs to be, history has shown that people will pay to get quality service when free service with banners was offered but was of lesser quality...
Everyman dies, not everyman really lives. -W.W
- Have a parent company which is willing to fund them at a loss to maintain web presence (like NFL.com)
- Have multiple sources of income (a la Yahoo!)
- Have such specialized services/content, people are willing to pay for it(like an ISP)
I can't think of a single site/service which is based on advertising alone and is actually *making* money. Banner ads just don't cut it anymore.Yes, banners still do work to an extent. No, banners would not work in this situation. The number of users would be much, much too low to attract any kind of advertiser whatsoever. Advertisers are interested in hundred of thousands of impressions. With wireless being still so bleeding edge, you wouldn't have more than a handful, daily, unless you happened to be in the hippest of hip neighborhoods in San Francisco or NY. Or, you could go for some kind of pay per signup for whatever program, in which with the kind of volume your service would bring in, could amount to only a few signups a year.
to pay up to $18/month for wireless access to my
home.
My two cents.
As long as the banner size is the same, so I can use Bannerblind... ;-)
There would be a lot of work involved-such as proving the ads actually worked, but it would be fun to start such a small enterprise up. Try something like arranging to offer a coupon from a local store on the banner ad itself, and see how many people come in with your coupon to determine the retention and usefulness of the service. Then you could turn it around and use that information to sell more ads to local shopowners.
Calum
Advertizing could be done and it might be effective -- but size does matter. I don't think "banner" ads would work well because, think about it, if it's a wireless network, I'm probably on my PDA or small portable laptop, so I don't have much screen to deal with here. And if you fill up the screens with ads, well, then that's just a waste.
Then again, some advertizing could work because people will put up with some of it, even if they complain. I mean, how many people have actually stopped going to a website due to some small limited advertizing. Done in measures, the users will tolerate it. They may not like it, but they'll keep using the service because it's free, and you'll start having at least a small revenue source.
Who said Freedom was Fair?
Free access.. all you gotta do is have banners..
Doesnt seem to be the best business model as they keep dropping your 'free' time.. guess they cant get enough advertisers.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
1. Prepare for a constant arms race. They will block your ads.
2. You might get some love on local ads, from businesses that normally wouldn't use internet ads. Like a local sub shop or bookstore. Your one advantage will be genuine geotargeting. (Sorry, OSDN.)
3. Figure out some reasonable way to do traffic shaping first or some yahoo will put you out of business by sucking up all your bandwidth. I'm not an expert on this sort of thing but maybe withholding TCP ACKs from abusers as a throttle would help.
4. Let us know how it works out!
-Peter
If I can make (or get) a browser that pretends to read those ads, and display them prominently on /dev/null, then I
might be interested. Otherwise don't even think of spamming
my machines!
Imagine if 802.11b manufacturers put $1 per device sold into a fund for building wireless infrastructure. Hmmm, how many 802.11b devices have been sold? 10 million/year? If you generated $10 million per year, you could probably at least support 1000 wireless access points with T1'ish bandwidth, possibly seeding the purchase of more devices. Or twiddle the
numbers and make it work out better.
To answer the question, run-of-the-mill banners do 10 cents per thousand impressions these days. Even factoring in a select audience (like Slashdot) or pop-under/overs (unlike Slashdot), a couple of dollars per thousand impressions is all you can make.
Yes, but
"If I could live to be several hundred
I could take a walk and really wander, really wonder."
To me, banner ads are like SPAM--they get on my nerves and I pay them no attention.
"Love is a familiar; Love is a devil: there is no evil angel but Love." --William Shakespeare ('Love's Labors Lost')
Rather than take up valuable real estate (especially on the laptops everyone will be using to access the network), display a full page ad every half-hour of connecting.
I'm assuming you'd do your banner method via a proxy server that inserts your add, why not do a commercial-like ad for each time interval. I'm thinking of something like what Salon.com does for non-subscribers. Intrusive for just a few seconds, and then its like nothing ever happened.
What happened here is that the submitter read or heard something about a wireless honeypot being used to trap wardriving/walking etc. activity, and thought that the term just meant a free access point. He's confused.
"In the early days of online advertising in the mid-1990s, click through for banner ads might have been any where from 5 percent to 6 percent. But Denise Garcia, a media analyst for GarnterG2, a market research firm in Stamford, Conn., says that click through for banners have fallen to roughly two-tenths of a percent. "It's amazing that it's fallen so dramatically," says Garcia."
Slow news day?
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
I wouldn't mind the banner, I understand that it would cost money to setup and pay for bandwith so it wouldn't be a great loss for me to put up with a banner ad.
One problem I see though is dealing with P2P apps, I assume the point of this project is to remove some of the restrictions that are present with the campus network, but it doesn't take many P2P users to bog down the network for everyone, and most likely there wouldn't be any banner ad support to help with the costs.
As long as the only way to get on the network is to have a banner always be on top (Like netzero) the revenue would still be there, but that really annoys users. Then again, they don't have to use the service if they don't want to, after all, to them its free.
I crash enough whilst ice skating, without juggling a PC with an ad-ridden wireless connection! RB
Step 1) In a major metropolitan area, set up a huge wifi network. Name it "GCN $50/mo 555-1212" where 555-1212 is your phone number and GCN is the name of your ISP.
...
Step 2)
Step 3) Profit!
That's what some folks are doing in Mendocino, and it seems like it'd be a great service. I opened up my laptop in a friends house, and saw I was getting wifi access. I'd have paid them $10 for the weekend, easily.
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
I am planning on doing the exact same thing in a town near me.
There are several differences between this model, and that of NetZero.
First of all, I plan to get the businesses that are in the cloud to pay a nominal fee for access. So this won't be free. (it is going to be free to users though). The second idea is to charge for LOCAL advertising. I.E. In town. You need to also consider the fact that the increased traffic to the area in the wireless cloud brings value that is worth paying for.
If it's the same college town where I live and the college that I work for/attend that you're speaking of. As a matter of fact I work at one of the buildings right across the street from the downtown area and Sprint has been here doing RF surveys for the past two days looking for ideal spots for the WAP's. As long as you have a userid and know how to set up your VPN your banner free wireless network is right around the corner.
Actually, I'd consider it a service on the order of the ads in the local City Paper if the banner ads were entirely limited to businesses within the access area for your ISP.
Put restrictions on their design (no flashing, no animation) and size, and I don't see why they couldn't be left on for all subscribers period.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
I am confused, this doesn't seem much differnt then what Juno and NetZero tried but could never make profitable, didn't they start charging? It is a novel idea, but I think the overhead with wireless would be more then dialup, so I wonder if it would be profitable.
How will you recoup your costs? You're assuming that everyone will be using it for the web. Maybe most people will be doing so, but if there are enough who aren't (FTP'ing large ISOs, for example), your bandwidth will be very expensive without being able to recover those costs through ads.
free wireless (like 802.11b 11MB/sec?, broadband?) would be well received with banners as long as they aren't annoying (popups, etc). static banners would be fine. free banner-based dialup wasn't successful but free wireless is a new idea and would probably be successful at leat in the beginning. try it out and see how it goes!
Careful how you do this. Don't want to piss off the big boys.
"Each page," might make the advert look like its loaded from the web site etc., time based would be safer.
For the linkage adverse, it's about NYTimes and Wash Post etc. suing Gator over pop ups
So close and yet so far from the world's perfect ID number
I really think the people that would use it would be 50/50. For example, I know that I would not. Advertising just bothers me that much, and I would not want to be limited in any way from my browing experience. I am willing to pay to have a decent connection. However, my brother would love to use it. If it's free, then that's $20 a month he can spend on food or a date.
To conquer death, you only have to die
Offer paid subscribers the option of turning off the ads. That way, the cheapskate users can't complain too much.
Neat GPS tie-in: click on an ad for a nearby coffee shop, send them your GPS coordinates with your order (paid by credit card or PayPal), and they'll deliver for a fee based on your distance from the shop.
OK, maybe that's a bit too geeky...
As some poster mentioned, it doesnt seem he is trying to figure out if this would make him rich or support a /corporation/. It sounded as if he was currious as the feasability of funding the bandwidth through adds for at least local places and maybe some larger vendors. Nothing major. Seems to me the biggest problem would be creating a piece of software...cross platform, of course....that would allow for this with no easy run arrounds.....of course since its for a small area...with a relatively close community....you might be able to rely on the honor system....i.e "just dont get arround the banner adds in the software because this is a free not for profit operation for yours and everyone elses benefit kind of thing..so be cool and let the banners be". Which I dont think is an entirely unheard of thing. that said, it might not be too hard to get local shops restaurants to participate now that so many are becoming web/net savy. give them a way to offer up to date specials on the spur of the momment("Till 9pm tonight, one free beer with purchase of Chicken Dinner. At Joe's Chicken Shack!" or "$.50 Kamikazee shots for the next hour @ The Lounge !"). If you get time donated from some of the college geeks for maintenence, and get really lucky some how on a couple of AP's and antenna's....then it seems a few hundred dollars a month is all you would have to generate to cover the bandwidth. Seems like a pretty neat project for a couple of CS students to tackle.
.02
Dunno, just my
Dimes
Local advertising is more relevant, easier to canvas for as a small start-up, and more interesting than X10 ads. I think this'll work and would love to hear back from anyone who's tried it.
Wah!
Banner Ads will not cover the cost of equipment and bandwidth. And even if they do NOW, they won't SOON... this Alertbox article by respected Internet Usability guy Jacob Neilson talks about why web advertising does not work. The article was writtin in 1997, but it has comments at the bottom keeping it up to date.
Banner ads are slowly dying. Basing a long term business model on them is a bad idea.
"I will trust Google to 'do no evil' until the founders no longer run it." Hello Alphabet.
A total back of the napkin calculation, the answer is probably yes (based on the size of the ad & the detrimental affects to the wireless connection).
it's not going to stop until you wise up, no it's not going to stop. so just give up.
I'm a college student at a university in Georgia, and we're working on a similar system in the downtown area of our town right now. I am fairly sure it will not include banner ads, but even if it did I think I would use it if it were free.
The death of banner advertising (it's dead, the popups, pop-unders, etc, are just the last few involuntary muscle contractions) has show us the following:
You're simply better off going the commercial route and selling access at a nominal fee.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
I wouldn't use it, frankly I wouldn't install whatever software or configure whatever proxy you cooked up to force the banners onto my laptop.
Perhaps there are plenty of folk who would, I'd think mainly people who live/work in the area, as most tourists would have no clue as to its existence (unless you used your ad revenue to rent conventional ad space on the sides of buses, etc).
If you sold advertising to locals (mom n pop type stores downtown), it seems to me you'd be lucky to break even.
Sounds like a pretty crappy get-rich-quick scheme. Why don't you try bootlegging beanie babies?
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Seriously, this is as good as an idea as they had.
They said, Gee we can sell a machine, at a loss, and tie people into only using our service!
Your saying, gee we can offer service at a loss, in hopes we'll make it up in advertising revenue!
And you both have the same fatal flaw. To easy to skirt your profit modle, and its LEGITIMATE to skirt it too, although in the end you'll probably use trumped up legal threats and such to frigten the few users you have left.
With the iopener you bought it it was yours to keep even if you didn't continue service. It was yours, you could cancel, hack and presto cheap pc in the slimmest case yet.
With your idea, junkbuster and a million and one other anti-add apps will keep you from making your $$. Hell if your going to do it like Bess (that shitty censorware program that decides to spam students and youths with wholesome adds) there would probably be netscape IE and mozilla plugins within a week to filter out the adds before it was displayed.
So will it work? Well why don't you make alot of hackers happy, and try?
You are only young once, but you can stay immature indefinitely.
I would never, ever, use a service like that. I would simply wait until I get to work or get home. I am sick and tired of all the banners on the web already, and I never use adware or similar. And the more you piss me off, the more I will refuse to pay you.
This is not being unnice or disregarding your idea, it is simply me being tired beyond belief of commercials as a way to do business. If you could come up with a better way to finance it I think that there can be a merit to general wireless access, but not with commercials.
I'd use this (supposing that my laptop battery worked and my school didn't already have wireless), but:
- I would probably be spending most of my time over ssh, not the web
- I would filter out the banners
- Getting banner sponsors, is really, really hard
Someone's never been wardriving ;)
We now have confirmed reports from an informed Orange County minister that Ethel is still an active communist.
I'd say if the advertising will cover the costs, go for it. I don't think complainers would have much ground to stand on. No one would be forcing them to use the service, and they get it for free. Besides, it seems like more than 1/2 of the sites I go to have banner ads of their own anyway.
JET Program: see Japan, meet intere
Above all, you need to maximize synergies to develop a strategic go-forward plan to be first to market in the opportunity space. Focus on synthesizing a world-class, robust, scalable solution using best-of-breed technologies. You need to capture eyeballs if you're going to drive revenue generation; you need to get the public to drink the Kool-Aid.
Develop a leveraged business model and have a fully-realized exit strategy.
You could always offer subscriptions to get rid of the banners :)
Seriously though, once people have experienced it working they might well be prepared to pay.
There are free community wireless projects all going up, and they can't fail because they don't rely on revenue. Talking with these people setting it up, they won't accept contracts with businesses to do advertising of any kind. It's a pure network like your home LAN, all based on charity and whoever has the equipement to help out.
Introducing a wireless network with advertising is going to go down the hole. Especially with these community wireless projects popping up in most major cities.
People need to get out of the "click - through" bullshit!!!
That upsets me more then anything. When I'm watching T.V., and I see a commercial... I don't drop what I'm doing and head out to the store!! Same goes for the internet. I'm here to read a story... I go there to do some research. If I see something that interests me, I'll then go to it.
Example: Thinkgeek. I know the web addy now... I've even bought a couple of things off of it. But have I EVER clicked through... NO.
Once advertizers and web providers remember that it's the idea seed that gets planted and not the click-through, maybe the internet business will return.
People should really be quantifying, "if I put up and ad, do my # of visits increase as a whole?"
Now that would be better data.
Hey.. how did this box get under me?
www.slightlycrewed.com - Because aren't we all?
Sure, I'd use it, but that's presuming that somebody would pay you enough for the ad banners to keep you in business. The other thing is that I could easily put some ad blocking software on my laptop to quickly bypass your ad banners. Of course advertisers knows this.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
What if the coffee shop had an eye-in-the-sky retinal scanner and pinged your eye for ID to serve up custom ads? Oh wait, I think I already saw that in a movie...
Twelve-and-three-quarter inches. Unyielding. This wand belonged to Bellatrix Lestrange.
...they would ignore the ads, but they would come.
Maybe you'll want to disable ports 21, 22, and 23.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
Would you use a free wireless access point [...] if you had to have a framed banner ad at the top of every page you visited while on the network?
Sure, as long as you don't mind that I use the access for checking my email, logging in to machines at work or home, apt-get updating my system, chatting/IM'ing with friends and colleagues, playing online games, and other activities that don't involve "visiting" any "pages". (And that's if I'm a nice guy, and don't use junkbuster or mozilla's image-blocking features.)
You're basically talking about wireless NetZero. Even they have started charging a monthly fee for more than nominal monthly access. As others have said, ad-based revenue models don't work when you're giving out a service of value. The only reason anyone listened to such dot-coms during the boom was a belief that we were in a virtual "land-rush" where gaining users was all-important. Taking losses to build your user base was acceptable, but EVEN THEN the idea was to reach a critical mass and then find a way to make money off of these users. Most ran out of cash first...
Consider the following alternative: Offer a wireless access point and give people their first month free at sign-up. Afterwards charge a small $4.95-$9.95 monthly charge for unlimited usage and maybe also offer a $1-$2/day option for the occasional user/out-of-town businessman that just drops in.
Giving people something for free to get them hooked is a tried and true business method. Ask your local drug dealer. But make it a clearly limited free trial or you'll be another dot-bust.
Brian
Like Digital Freedoms? Then donate to EFF before they're gone.
Either way I get the money up front first - so if no one clicks there banners I STILL GET PAID - it's not my fault if there ads are not on a target audience site.
Ave Molech Setting
... it's the fact that a lot of these ads don't point to any tangible or worthwhile goods or services. In my mind, banner ads are actually somewhat effective when they are clear, concise, unobtrusive and actually have a product or service to sell. I have bought a product or two that I saw advertised in banners and that I am quite happy with. (On the other hand, I refused to buy an X10 camera merely on principle, even though I thought they were kind of neat.)
Of course, nowadays most of the ads I see are "YOU HAVE 2 NEW MESSAGES! LOL!!1" and online casino ads, which even the least computer-literate among us are catching on to.
The annoyance of ads goes up exponentially when there is animation. Sure, it limits the attention you can grab with it, and maybe the potential advertisers you can work with, but remember: animation SUCKS.
-- This sentence is false.
Did anyone notice that OSDN wasn't running ads on Slashdot on Sept. 11? I didn't, it wasn't until a friend pointed it out to me that I realized that was the case.
A honeypot is certainly not a free wireless access point. Well, a free wireless access point could in *theory* be a honeypot.
Normally, a honeypot is an apparently vunerable system or network that you deliberately leave around to catch the eye of hackers, usually to monitor them or to grab lists of IPs to block.
May we never see th
...because of the ads.
I hate ads. I really do.
No matter if they bounce, or whatever, I hate them. I hate commercials.
It doesn't make any sense to me that anybody still uses AOL. They pay, and they also get advertised at. This is absurd. Like credit card companies. You pay them interest, and they harass you with ads on the phone.
Free + Ads, or Pay + NO ADS. That's the only way I can accept it and not be pissed off.
~D
How do you propose to get this to work? You'd have to force port 80 connections to a proxy server, wouldn't you? Oy... some Internet access you got there.
As detailed by this article, the web is not like Network TV, never will be, and trying to emulate the business model of the TV Networks will fail.
"I will trust Google to 'do no evil' until the founders no longer run it." Hello Alphabet.
I think a distinction needs to be made between the good banner ads and the bad ones.
Slashdot ads are good. I frequently click on them. They're not deceptive, not intrusive, and they are targeted for the audience.
The ads everywhere else are "IF THIS IS FLASHING, YOU WIN!" or "HIT THE LAPTOP AND WIN" or "YOU HAVE 1 NEW MESSAGE". Please...don't insult my intelligence.
please don't hack my commercial mr coyotehack.
Nothing worse than frames preventing the proper use of URL's in web browsers. I'd just plain not use it. Either that, or I'd use it for network services that don't have banner ads, such as e-mail, IRC, Gnutella, etc.
... as a viable business plan.
I would have thought the last 'economy crash' would have told you that.
basically it goes something like this >
The people that are going to pimp your shit.
are ALWAYS going to pimp your shit.
Why should they do anything else ?
I don't have any objection to getting a free service in exchange for being shown ads, but unless it was perfectly executed, I don't think I'd use such a system. It's going to be a source of all kinds of headaches:
My guess is that even if you manage to get enough advertisers to fund this thing, the ad system itself will make the service unusable.
You might be better off just leaving locked boxes with coin slots and a sign asking for a donation of a dollar per hour online. That will at least make the system easy for people to pay for.
So, wireless network connectivity points aren't free in and of themselves. You have to pay for the equipment, you have to pay for the service, and you have to have dependable points to serve as wireless hubs, not to mention people to provide at least minimal maintenance on the thing. The advertising juggernaut that was thought to pay for the dotcom success has shown that online advertising doesn't work too well. NetZero no longer provides unlimited advertising-subsidized connectivity free to the end user due to the lack of effectiveness of online advertising. Convincing advertisers to foot the bill for something like this is unlikely to work. What *might* work is highly localized advertising informing locals of events/special deals/promotional offers - the kind of things college kids go for. Unfortunately, convincing local businesses of the cost effectiveness of providing free services to already cash-strapped college kids is not likely. And truth be told, local businesses are just as likely to make money from stapling posters to light poles on well-walked street corners.
But if the idea is to simply get a free wireless service in a 4 block area of Bloomington (or whichever college town in Indiana you're in), you'd probably have better luck knocking on the doors of the University, rich alumni, or even City Hall. You'd have a much easier time convincing these people that free wireless internet is a worthwile service for the college community rather than trying to convince businesses that money is to be made through advertising. Heck, businesses might be willing to *donate* money to an wireless portal they can use themselves rather than buy into some sales pitch about how advertising will generate higher sales.
Would moderate the parent as "interesting"!?!?!
It's a bunch of BS bogus marketing terms with no actual value whatsoever. Talk about the Dilbert drones!?!?
Whoever you are, you really, REALLY need to read more Dilbert - or is that one of those cartoons that just "isn't funny" 'cause it's just reality?!?
SHEESH...
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
Oh wait, no they didn't. That was the ISP who had the attrocious ad interface at the bottom of the screen, and claimed 56/53K dialup speeds when it was more like 2400 baud.
The problem with this "free" crap is that there IS NO feasible implementation. The only fluke that made it was network television, but even its becoming so ad-saturated and full of bullshit programming that TV watchers are turning their attention to shows they pay to watch (Sopranos, etc.)
advertising revenue = supplemental revenue
Xavodim.com
All though this is very similar to a very naughty tactic by a current company (Would they cry and sue if you used their idea?), what if you did something just redirect ad.doubleclick.net and other prominent ad sites to your own local banner ad server, with, Local banner ads. People couldn't complain about you screwing up the formatting of a page or anything, because the spaces for the ads will already be there. It would involve no proxy, just a little dns twist.
Does this sound to wrong or or illegal or anything like that?
(Score:0, Interesting)
Might work. The many out of town and out of country patients and their families in the Mayo complex downtown probably would actually like such a thing as a service.
But I don't know if it would go over very well in areas that are primarily frequented by locals.
But the real issue I see here is that Internet access is more than just webpages with banners. Do you intend to intercept people's e-mail to insert ads (something that's less likely to be well received)? Would you block usenet access? What about instant messaging and other application? You need to consider all aspects of network acceess, not just WWW access, in putting togeter a business plan in this area. And you walk a fine line, limit users too much and the system will not be well received, tamper too much with things like e-mail and again I think you'll have problems. Stick to just inserting WW banners and let all users on your netork and it might be overused by applicaions that never generate hits.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
I haven't actually looked at a banner ad in ages,
and I can't even remember the last time I actually clicked on one. (probably not since I was testing an ad serving system I was being paid to develop...)
On that thought, while I was in that position (for over a year) the stat went from 10% click-thru ratio down to well under 0.5%. That was over two years ago. I can't imagine how ads could be of any use at all if they're even below that now.
They also waste valuable screen space in my browser which is just plain annoying.
[opportunistic jibe]
That depends - does Luciano Pavarotti block the view of the banners?
[/opportunistic jibe]
By the way, am I the only one that uses Google as a quick spell checker? i.e., one enters "Luciano Pavorotti", Google comes back "Did you mean Luciano Pavarotti".
How about for a cetain metro area, designate the 192.168.*.* IP addresses, as a Local internet (or would that be intranet....I dunno!). Now 192.168.0.1 (or maybe DNSed as www.index.local (note the nonstandard TLD)), would point to a web page that is for the particular area you are in, and link to various shops and businesses in that area, that you might be interested in..... These shops and businesses would pay for the connection, and also the internet that could be accessed from the same location.
This system would meen I could drive somewhere I had never been before, and instantly look up where the local , for example , Pizza shop is.... Why would that Pizza shop want to advertise to the world, when only people in the local vacinity would be interested in ordering....
By carefully shaping traffic, you can get the results you desire:
1) Throttle down unrestricted access from all nodes to the equivalent of 14.4kbps on each client.
2) Throttle down port 80 to a much more annoying 2400bps or something.
3) Set up a caching proxy server for web access that will frame your ads. Set the limit on this to much higher so that this is the fast way to get www access.
4) For other applications (like online gaming or filesharing), use your judgement. You can charge for subscriptions or come up with some sort of peak-pricing.
5) If you are feeling lucky, set up a large caching Gnutella supernode and adaptively throttle down filesharing connections going to anyone else. Then you can implement some sort of subscription based priority system for filesharing.
Desktop based ads are not going to work since wireless client diversity is very large.
What if you instead sold demographic information to stores in the area? (This will get all the privacy people in an uproar, but remember, your giving away a free service, perhaps allow people to pay and you won't save their data) Basically you are going to get alot of people coming down to your part of town to surf the web. You'll know what sites they are going to, so then you can establish some information about their demographics. You could then tell the coffee shop that geeks like their shop, but housewives don't.
You could also probably make money charging the businesses a small fee. If you make your network small enough people are going to come to that area to use the network. And while they're there they might as well buy a hot dog right! So it is worth it for the hot dog vendor to pay you a little bit of that. You would have to do some advertising then, and find a way to block the network at locations that don't pay.
Good luck.
... would be:
Would people still read a news/community page if it had banner ads so as to be free?
If you can make a WAN as good as Slashdot is a news site then sure, why not?
Ok, the "great unwashed" probably won't miss ftp, telnet or ssh. But what about SMTP/POP/IMAP? What about IM? Those are "killer apps" as far as Joe Public is concerned. Block those, and people just won't bother with you. Don't block those, and many people will just use those services, and won't ever be forced to see your ads.
The point was valid even if the example (of ssh) wasn't perfect.
The real use of banner and popup ads on most sites is as a grating annoyance to encourage people to buy subscriptions so they can turn off the fscking ads.
It worked on me for Weather Underground, but they're cool and only $5/year, so I don't mind.
Working for a small wireless ISP, how difficult would it be to implement bannder adds for freeloaders and have our paying costumers add free?
This seems impossible to implement.
The only way that this was done in the past was by forcing the users to use a particular web browser with the dial-up service. If this is the approach you're referring to, you would limit your target audience severly.
Keep in mind that only a part of network activity is web-based, and many people will probably not want to use the browser you choose.
Another revenue model you might consider is selling wifi access like downtown parking. You could charge customers on a regular basis, or get local business owners to "Validate" surfing. The idea would be that business owners could give out single-use codes to customers that asked (and presumably bought something) and they could use these codes to authenticate to the access points for a given time limit.
The idea is the same as when you go to a mall and get a store to validate your parking. Distributing one-time access codes would be a little tricky- if shopkeepers had web access though, they could easily use a web interface that would spit out new codes. Ideally, local businesses would provide you with enough revenue that you wouldn't have to rely on user subscriptions.
...on my ssh session?
I'd use your service, but I'd never see your banner ad.
The next Cmdr Taco duplicate will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
As mentioned a bunch of times, banners would be really easy to avoid, but if you set up a location specific website at a fixed address for each site (where ever you are http://localstuff resolved to a site specific to your access point) then you may be able to provide usefull location specific information that you may be able to get shops in the area to pay into. It could provide things like lists of bookstores/coffee shops etc, that are within a short distance, and where ever you are the information would be valid and likely usefull. Something like that could be usefull advertising for the businesses, and something the users may actually want to use (unlike banners..)
I think looking back at Juno/etc would give you an answer. People are willing to pay a little bit of money to avoid annoyances. Why not go with the standard model of charging for access?
Folks keep talking about how NZ and Juno's buisness plans didn't work, however both of them required you to download and use their ugly software. Also, you can now find a cheap local ISP almost anywhere for like $5/month buck now adays, so its not worth the anoying ads. However a free wireless network is different. Its hard to find the convience of a wireless network in your area, regardless of the price, thus I, and I think others would put-up with the banners. Especialy if they where small and at the BOTTOM of the page and not the top.
There exists a fine line (at least for me) between banner ads that annoy and banner ads that don't annoy. The banner ads here on Slashdot, for instance, aren't terribly annoying, for the most part. They're not in the way, they're predictable, if you want to look at them you can, if you want to ignore them you can. The squarish ads that get placed in the middle of an 'article' (is that what you call them here?) are pushing it (especially with the way Moz renders them if the window is too small--oh yeah, and especially the MSFT ads).
Borrowing an earlier example, I could never stand NetZero's model because the ads were _so_ intrusive, especially on a small screen. They were so intrusive, in fact, that they prompted people to write applications for disabling that feature in the software, and NZ's later EULA's consisted of approx. 50% legal garbledy-gook addressing just that.
My point is that one thing you may want to try is to focus on finding that fine line where:
1. your banner ads are not so annoying that you end up expending large amounts of time and energy combatting your customers, cramming the ads down their throats (the reason NetZero failed) and,
2. your banner ads are effective enough to warrant businesses paying for them, therefore justifying the whole operation
Well, would this offer true TCP/IP connectivity?
Eg, could I actually use it for something useful to ME (Eg, ssh in to a server & run pine, work on it, etc) How is it going to display banners if I dont have a GUI running? How would it even tell *IF* I had a GUI running?
Or are you prosposing some sort of Proprietary Windows-only AOL-like access software then enforces the banners and doesnt let you use anything else?
This is sort of like a system NetZero moved to before they eventually went to paid service.
Have some sort of custom login client (Older cablemodem systems had such a client). Unless you're logged in and authed, you don't route.
Supporting multiple OSes will be a bitch tho.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
A better option to set up something like this would be a sponsorship. Banner ads are worth nothing; large companies and corporate donors will pay money to put their names on ballparks and (in my city) libraries. Why not a wireless network? Call it the BigCorp free wireless zone...
Another option is obviously area merchants. Or a combination of both.
Why not get someone to sponsor the network without banners? Like the city or a deep pocket local corporation? You could use something like nocat to force users to see the name of sponsor and get them to agree to the AUP when they startup. But after that access would be unfettered. This model has worked for NYCWireless.
one way to make it successful would be to really make it local--use text ads intead, with more focused content. more community involvement. we've seen it work on the internet, so why not with this?
I'll write a program that filters out the ads and people can pay me a small one-time fee to use it to access their "free" service. Or would this be like "stealing from the Television" with respect to Tivos et al?
Kevin
"It's not the cough that carries you off, it's the coffin they carry you off in" O. Nash
You asked a lot of questions. Here is may take on your idea. Like any small business venture you have to believe in what you're doing; it doesn't matter what people her say pro or con.
For everyone who is comparing your concept to failed dot.com keep in mind a couple of things. A lot of the ideas behind the dot.com craze weren't that bad. Etoys for example could have worked, if they didn't overspend their capital and assume more VC money would be on the way.
Create a real budget; look at worse case scenario of what you're trying to do. Keep in mind that even if you don't pay yourself in the beginning that your time is valuable.
You should also learn the lingo of the target audience you're trying to reach. By now you've most likely read the "it's not a honeypot" post.
Good luck.
When punk rock is outlawed, only outlaws will have punk rock.
"Are banner ads, effective?"
What the fuck?
See this link.
Advertisers have already shown a genuine disreguard for my limited bandwidth and screen real estate. They will over-utilize popups, Flash, and other tools to gnaw into the meat of the user experience like a pack of rabid badgers in a hen house. I don't need your wireless experience, thank you very much.
The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
skip the banner ad... how about an informational frame with restaurant and entertainment information. almost civic in nature, like a business association. this could be a little difficult in an area with fewer businesses though. but what are the economics of an access point? dsl + access point + access software = $?
how? only allow unencrypted port 80 traffice that you can intercept and mangle? that's no longer an internet connection. forget it. nobody will use it. if it is a true connection i would never see the ads but would leech all i want. i'd tunnel my traffic over ssh to my own proxy elsewhere.
combine the broadcasting with new cell phone tech (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/27160.htm l) which combines cellular phone access with wireless, and interesting things could happen. i just wish that a nice tablet/ultralight with instant-on were available--psion.
Just a personal rant, but I'm tired of paying to share a system with freeloaders, and watching the freeloaders destroy it. I'm ready to sign-up for an internet-like networking service where everyone has to pay per packet. In my mind, that would stop spammers cold, end all of the "peer-to-peer music/warez/movies pirating" debates, (no one is going to shell out serious cash and take a chance on jail time just to set up a web site offering the latest Celine Dion MP3) and eliminate banner ads as well. (And people who fail to clean-up their Klez infections might find the resulting bill an adequate reminder.) It would probably bee a boon for privacy as well, as anyone getting paid for the service they offer is not going to risk losing a paying customer by doing something stooopid like frivolously forwarding their customer's email to Ashcroft, or selling their customer's web-browsing habits to some Viagra marketer.
It would probably mean more judicious use of Flash (and graphics in general) and no one is going to pay to serve-up a 1.2Mb homepage background when a 1200 byte background would work just as well and cost 10,000 times less per page view.
The thing about things we don't know is we often don't know we don't know them.
Along with selling the ads make the users pay to see the ads. Make them useful to the users. Say if they are on the corner of 5th and Main have the system feed them ads from surrounding businesses and let them easily browse for the types of places they want. Make it an instant yellow pages and list specials, have walk-in coupons, etc.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
The service is now MUCH cheaper to provide, and has a much larger customer base.
You can also expect another type of backlash. Back when Microsoft was floating the "SmartTags" idea, people (even EFF!?!) were bitching about it even though it ultimately just involved a user agent displaying web pages differently than how most w3b d3$ignerz expect. If you're going to be a middleman who changes how other people's web pages look to other people who view them, there will be a firestorm of flames and copyright-related lawsuits.
Yep, you'll have MPAA and EFF fighting each other just for a place in line to kick you in the nuts, as a reward for your good intentions.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
On a laptop, a banner would not be too bad. On a PDA...FORGEDDABOUTIT! There's minimal space on a PDA. That screen would then reduced in size to a cell phone wap browser and would be totally unusable as a regular browser. Also, I don't think it would work. On the other hand if it was free and had links for putting in your order like for a coffee or whatever, I would like that. They could give you a slip with the URL on it every time you get a coffee or they could put up a banner or sign telling you what to do.
Gorkman
I for one would use the system without too much of a gripe, as long as the ads weren't extremely annoying (pop-up/pop-under).
If you're planning on making off with a nice wad of cash to provide this service, I wouldn't get me hopes up too much. Yes, NetZero is still up and working utilizing a similar business model for dialup, but.... If you're wanting to do this in order to provide a service because you see a need and would like it if you yourself were a user, then I think you'll be better off.
Here's where I think the real kicker lies: I think it depends heavily on the dynamics of your college town, and the local businesses. If your local businesses already see advantages to advertising to the college students through pre-existing campus-directed online advertising formats, then your job will be a tad easier since you wouldn't have to play the marketing game and sell them on the idea first, and just concentrate on the technical side.
Otherwise....you'll definitely have your work cut out for you, both from the business as well as the technical side of things.
Good luck!
This is actually an intreaguing possibility. You could simply have a small add at the top of each page and append content to it by editing the HTTP stream going to each user.
The really interesting bit is that if used properly it could provide useful information to users while generating business for local retailers. For example, if I'm surfing in a town square and I happen to notice an add for a band playing at the bar across the street tomorrow, I really might be likely to click on the add and even go to the show. I'd certainly be a lot more likely to clik on that than I am to click on the SourceForge add I'm looking at right now. (We use a different team development tool.)
Adds work (and can even be usefull) when they're targeted at people who care. This provides an excellent opportunity to offer extremely local, grass-roots information. Doing something like this might even be useful for small towns...put up a few WAPs and have the adds point to community events...
credo quia absurdum
Therefore, the ads would be much cheaper, and i'd think, if marketed correctly, many companies, possibly even personal ads.
... and she's HOT FOR YOU! Click here for the buzz code!!!! ]
[POPUP: HEY! Janine lives just around the corner in Apartment 302
Tuus crepidae innexilis sunt.
Technically, this would be intractable. You couldn't display a banner on every web page without knowing what was a web page and what wasn't. You couldn't display an ad in people's browsers without forcing them to use certain browsers. Both of these things are impossible in the current state of the network.
Certainly, it would be possible to allow access to only the web, using a special "access method" with the browser. But then things I use the internet for wouldn't be possible: i.e. ssh.
But let us learn from Lawrence Lessig. The minute this kind of thing becomes possible, on all levels of the network (not just WWW browsing), innovation dies. The network can now discriminate content, and that's against the very essence of it. Hopefully, this will never be possible.
Luke
The problem is though I would not trust anyone that would confuse the term honeypot as a business idea (meaning you have no clue about the technical part) . But I would love to fuck with your network and take insightbb out of business because their services sucks dick!
NO MORE TOP DOWN!!!!!!
I don't want to waste time downloading a friggin' banner for every page downloaded with a wireless device. Not to mention the ads sitting on pages to start with... wouldn't that slow things down quite a bit?
2 questions
1) do you remember alladvantage?
2) where are they now?
people don't give a shit about web banners... however there was one critical factor they forgot-
local ads.
people are way more receptive to hungry howies pizza down the street than than lowermybills.com
if you advertise local stuff, local companies would be willing to pay.
go outside the area tho and you'll shoot yourself in the foot.
don't force advertisements either. show people what they're willing to see.
Looking for Book Reviews? Check out Literary Escapism.
You refered to a free wireless network as a "honeypot". I would just like to make it clear that the term honeypot is a term used in computer security, and should not be applied to just any free network. A honeypot is a network that is setup to attract hackers (wireless or wired). It is specifically designed to observe hacker techniques in a given situation, and is typically used to catch, and in some cases, prosecute hackers.
Do advertisers still pay for banner ads? Are banner ads, effective?
WELCOME TO FIVE YEARS AGO.
How about a banner of a stripper from NightMoves that says would like to tip me? and you tip the bitch online? I like that idea!
I myself would pay for limited wireless access from my house, and have of Back Bay in Boston would do the same. Lots of the buildings are so antiquated that you can't have DSL OR Cable... Hand out fliers and charge them $20/mo... I think people would sign on if you could cover a large enough area cheaply.
Seems that most have focused on would this make money but I'd like to talk about problems this might cause.
While I think the idea is worth trying here's somethings to think about.
1) Would 1 provider get sole control over and area? If so how do we determine who get's that area? Would you want a government commision to divy up the country in a similar way that's been done with wireless phones?
2) Could multiple networks be setup to cover a similar area? Could then a user select from a network according to the ads s/he finds least deplorable?
3) Do you like seeing billboards as you drive along the road? Because if you don't this is what your asking for on the wireless network.
What if the ad has a coupon value to it, or it could tell you if a new product has been introduced.
Go watch Minority Report and see how targeted advertising can be useful/annoying. The store can get you MAC address and see if you come by a lot and what you buy when you do.
If I cant advertise my site, then how the heck am I gonna make a living?
http://boingo.com/
I'd certainly be willing to try out such a service, however I'd want to use it on my PocketPC with my WiFi card.
I'd be curious to see how much valuable real estate is taken up with something like this. True mobile access is still very expensive, and I'd be happy to look at a few banners for free access, if it didn't take too much space away from what I was trying to look at...
No man is an island, but Gary is a city in Indiana.
I know a lot more people are using wireless now, but I really don't believe enough are using it to generate enough advertiser interest.
Especially if you approach the local business's who would need to be familiar enough with the technology ("Oh ya, my daughter uses your service!") to invest in the marketing.
Sounds like a great idea, maybe you should patent it for the time being...you know someone will. LOL.
Quack, quack.
A couple of random thoughts to, perhaps, get you started:
DDB (Park! Bench! Get it!? Never mind.)
Life is like surrealism: if you have to have it explained to you, you can't afford it.
What would prevent someone from do whatever misschief they'd want from the wlan, and then just simply walk away and be completely untracable? (Well, with the excpetion that you can tell the physical location of the attacker (or whatever) at which time, but that doesn't help that much, especially in larger areas).
Just a random thaught.
That is, friends, the main problem with self-styled "Smart People": They can always think of a dozen good reasons why something won't work. This reflex is poison to the particular kind of intelligence that characterizes successful entrepreneurs.
So please strongly consider looking elsewhere for advice on this issue.
Amazing magic tricks
(my login doesn't work, ID embedded).
My computer security company Melior, Inc. is sponsoring a completely free, high quality (native IP, no NAT, so VPNs work) wireless 802.11b network at a coffeeshop in Dallas (Crossroads Market @ 3930 Cedar Springs Road, see www.meliorinc.com), and it is very popular. I track new machines with Arpwatch, and without any advertisement the sign-on rate for new machines is about 1 per day.
I had hoped to get at least some referrals out of this, but there was absolutely nothing. Based on my experience, I doubt that it would pay to solicit advertisement revenue.
Just my 2c...
Thomas
Thomas J. Ackermann
CEO
Melior, Inc.
Internet Security & Infrastructure Architects
www.meliorinc.com
Melior Inc offers 802.11 infrastructure and security services, including war driving, AirSnort'ing, etc (for pay!) - check www.secure.sh for details if interested.
It's called a transcoding proxy. It works by using a combination of a transparent proxy, and a content rewrite mechanism, to keep the frame contents happy by re-rooting them relative to the embedded frame.
For bonus points, it can ensure that the download of the banner download succeeds before it permits the rest of the content to transit the proxy.
I can license code to you, if you want to do something like this, but it will cost you some $ for the license, unless you are willing to do a "fee plus royalty" arrangement, and I'm convinced that there's royalties to be made from your business model.
Of course, that leaves the broswer people to implement a "frame focus", where the browser "focuses in" on a single frame for display purposes, but downloads content like it's displaying all of it...
That's not really an issue for the business model, though, since 99.9% of the machines that will be using the service will be using it from Windows.
-- Terry
First, people complained that ads were only good if they were targetted, and if you were able to serve A LOT of them to people.
Then, people said, we'll I'd just block them anyway - because I'm a thief, and despite knowing the TOS for the free wireless connection, I'd do my best to break it becuase it's not "convenient" for me to look at ads.
Then people said they'd bypass the free network completely, use AIM to chat without ads and use VNC or their own proxy to surf from remote.
Don't you people get it? It's not your network. Since we're building it from the ground up (it doesn't exist yet) we have 100% control on the services and ports we offer.
All web-content goes through our transparent proxy and it serves random auto-forwarding dummy pages with click-through ads. You ask for http://ask.slashdot.org and you get http://freedowntownnetwork/localclickthrough1.htm on your screen. That page has ads for local resurants and shops. Heck, when our programmers get better, they'll notice you've been connected for an hour and send you the "Aren't you getting hungry?" click through page next time. Enjoy it. As a matter of fact, the first request from ANY new MAC gets the TOS sent to it. Don't agree to the TOS and no soup for you.
All "frivilous" ports are closed. Don't bother firing up Napster or whatever it is you kids are using to steal music these days. Just be lucky we're providing web surfing.
Sure. Someone will be ultra-cool and be able to steal some wireless. We'll find you and turn you off, and we'll waste just as much time as you do changing your MAC all day long, but we still don't care, because WE CONTROL THE CONTENT. You can "steal" all the ads you want.
Yep thats fine with me, i'll just strip them out. No problem.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
I'd be strongly tempted to mod this +1, Funny except that:
-- MarkusQ
Th primary reason to dislike ads, particularly on a service which is almost guaranteed to operate with a user base of laptop users, is the amount of screen realestate the advertisements end up taking up.
There's a finite amount of usable space on a laptop screen relative to a desktop, anyway, and further reducing this puts it below the real estate point where a laptop was something that was able top push the person past their buy-point in the first place.
-- Terry
Here, check these guys out:
http://www.personaltelco.net
They (we) are setting up a free, wireless community in the Portland, Oregon Metro area. No banner ads, just a simple web-based authenticator (NoCatAuth) and a phat pipe.
Head down to Pioneer Courthouse Square in downtown Portland. Set your ESSID to 'www.personaltelco.net' and enjoy!
GIR: I'm going to sing the Doom song now. Doom doom doom doom doom doom de-doom doom doom doom doom doom doom...
terminology shift?
when did "honeypot" cease to refer to an insecure machine left open in order to attract and hunt crackers? now people use it to mean any WNAP left open?? hrm. dubious.
La via sola al paradiso incommincia nel inferno
Do you even know what a honepot is? Hint, it has nothing to do with giving away wireless bandwidth. Why not just try it and see if users object? What is the point anyway though would be my question? You are not going to make money off of this, no way no how. If you want to provide some access and maybe push a few ads for products you endorse, then go ahead and do it. Just forget about making money on it or even breaking even. Presumably all of these people have wireless cards and laptops. What makes you think they do not already pay for service? Think this one through my friend, and you will see that it is not a money maker or even a break even proposition. And learn what a honeypot is before you start throwing the word around. BTW~ If I were putting up such an access point it would be because I intended to run dsniff on the traffic and score some free porn accounts...
For most people, there are not enough hours in the day, but they're not Burt Ward. "People will come around our house and say, 'I can't believe how much living is going on here!'" he says with a laugh.
That's because the erstwhile Boy Wonder, from the hit 1960s series "Batman," only sleeps three hours daily, from 6 a.m. to 9 a.m. "When you're up twice as much as other people, it's like having two lives."
So what does Ward, 56, do with his extra life? He spends his nights working on projects for his visual effects company named, appropriately, Boy Wonder Visual Effects, which he formed in July 2001, after more than a decade of study and frustration at the lack of roles coming his way.
There may not be a lot going on for Ward in front of the camera, but Boy Wonder has worked on more than 20 movies to date (including 2001's "Legally Blonde" and the upcoming action-adventure film "Bulletproof Monk," starring Chow Yun-Fat). "This is a transition to becoming a major player in the visual effects world," Ward says proudly.
Ward and his wife, Tracy, 40 (whom he met in 1989 when her father, the late corporate raider Victor Posner, sent her to take over Ward's educational video company; they married in 1990), also rescue abandoned Great Danes. In 1994, after moving from Los Angeles to rural Riverside County, the couple and their daughter, Melody, now 11, learned about the number of Great Danes in the area that needed homes. "With a Great Dane, if you take it to a shelter, it's too big for the cages and people are scared of a big dog even though they're sweet, and they're put to death," he explains. The family's 4,000-square-foot home and five acres of land became a refuge for the dogs; Ward estimates they have found homes for more than 3,500 in eight years.
Even with his other pursuits, Ward has not given up acting entirely. In November, he will team up with "Batman" costar Adam West in the CBS movie "Back to the Batcave: The True Adventures of Adam West and Burt Ward," in which the former Caped Crusaders will fight crime once more -- but as themselves. "This is a bigger production than anything we did on 'Batman,'" Ward says.
Ward has fond memories of his experience filming the "Batman" series, a period that he chronicled in a 1985 tell-all book, "Boy Wonder: My Life in Tights." "We partied together, we got in messes together," he says of his friendship with West. "It was a lot of fun." What wasn't fun was wearing his Robin outfit. "Those were the python pants -- they nearly squeezed me to death. And the cape strangled me," he says.
Almost 40 years after debuting on "Batman," Ward, who is now a grandfather -- his daughter Lisa, 35, from his first marriage, has two kids, Kevin, 10, and Katy, 8 -- is content with the way his life has unfolded. "I'm very, very happy. I have a wonderful family, I have the most wonderful people I work with," he says. "I'm the kid in the candy store."
Actually, it would be more like "people who don't like to pay for some stuff but might pay for other stuff." They might not pay to get wireless access in a small area, but they still very well may buy a cup of coffee or even lunch. If there was an incentive (like coupons only available to wireless users), they might be even more likely to spend money on local businesses.
---
Open Source Shirts
Not to pee on the parade, but no, banner ads could not subsidize a free wireless network. CPMs (cost per thousand) are so low for banner impressions, and really, at the end of the day, this model has been tried countless times.
:-) (a la AllAdvantage.com -- the $100M funded 'banner-on-your-desktop-for-cash'company that went belly-up)
People just have to PAY for it. PAY because there's real maintenance behind any size ISP. PAY because there's real equipment behind any size ISP. PAY because, well, people must, and banners don't. By the way, the same people that say, "Yeah, I'd do it. Banners forced on my screen are fine by me." are the same people who will also come up with a thousand ways around it, blocking your banners from ever being shown.
Are you planning quiet little static graphics, text-only banners (e.g. Google AdWords), or something to detect epilepsy?
:o)
The hardest part of this would be enforcing a banner on every machine that could connect to the system--either the proxy has to dynamically insert ad-code into every page, or you set up kiosks that connect to the access point.
I would strongly recommend non-animating (or text-only) banners for local establishments (the network's usage area is limited to a few city blocks)...that is, unless you can somehow deter the use of cardboard ad-blockers
Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
He said he was in a college town: that's perfect. A lot of college students have laptops, and a lot are shipping with WiFi now. And plus, you're thinking big time advertisers...why? You're in a local setting; Dirty John's Coffee Shop and Billy the Rapists Automotive would love that kind of directed advertising. In a localized thing like a wireless network, advertising works perfectly. If anyone from out of town shows up (and in a college town, 'twill happen), to find out what there is to eat or anything like that, just bring their laptop or PDA and bam...all at your finger tips. Making reservations and checkign prices when clickign on the banners would also do much good. You obviously didn't read--or at least didn't pay much attention to--any thing said before your post.
We now have confirmed reports from an informed Orange County minister that Ethel is still an active communist.
What about slashdot, they do the same thing you are mentioning.
Sir Timbly of Cannatuna, offical Knight of the Heptagonal Table
Is Hungry Howies a national chain or are you in Hillsdale, MI???? I visited my brother there and we got the hook-up on some HHs...Tasty
advertising from the local businesses kicking in to provide the funds available to keep somthing like this going, and using this as a tax write-off for "advertising"? Would this be way off-base? I could see something like an unobtrusive (as if there is something unobtrusive about a banner ad) "This service is being provided by "Joe's Coffee/Book/Super Market (Obligatory website anchor here) Click here for the special of the minute!"
Maybe this could work, but I don't see the normal
As I see it the best way to make this work is to run it through a NAT, masq. or other similar filter and force feed an ad for the first connection, include in the ad a key number as part of a bitmap, this key must be entered to get a live internet connection (simple CGI script), this could be used as a popup every X amount of time, if they have popups turned off then they get their connection turned off (with myabe a 5 minute grace period). Sure they could write an OCR routine to read and enter the key, but there are ways to fight that too (changing the location and font of the key in the bitmap ad, etc.) Also these ads can be for local merchants, and can be sold with the knowlage that the one important known demographic is that local users will see the ads.
Wow! someone wants to do something that doesn't require new technology to do! I'm truly amazed!
Considering this is the kind of thing certain companys have been trying to sell your ILECs for years, I have to wonder if it's actually a viable way to produce revenue, but I would love to see someone try it!
Those services had links to some of the most useless products and services. This wireless community has plenty of shops, resturaunts, etc who would now have a perfect oppritunity to show there ads. Why would the businesses take this oppritunity? Because the people viewing the ads are around the block. How great. Lets say im sitting in the corner coffee shop using this wifi service. I'm getting hungry and BAM:
"Luigi's Pizzaria. Located on 1st and Main. Mention this ad and get $2 off your purchase of $10 or more."
Advertisement that people can use. Its more personal. Cable TV does the same thing with their community access bulletin. Busineses and people pay them to put up their ads. Im sure the city would want to take advantage of this, too, and may even put a bit of funding into it if they feel they can grab the eyes of their taxpayers.
All this is very possible and very feasible, but only if is pitched right.
#!/usr/bin/john
To make money, as everybody is telling you. And I think you could be. Some people would whine, but frankly, let them whine. It's free ISP. If you don't want it, don't connect.
For example, all for-pay wireless hubs are set up so unknown cards have all web traffic diverted to a signup page where people can pay. They agree to pay and they are put in the pool of people who can get out.
You could use this technique not to collect money (though you could collect money) but to do a very direct, quid-pro-quo advertising campaign. One they can't ignore, such as read a page about an advertiser, then answer a question about the advertiser, and you're on for an hour.
And yes, you have to limit the time because do it one-time and people with offices in the area might use you as a permanent ISP and use up all the bandwidth and spectrum.
Again, if people don't want it, they don't use it and that doesn't tie up any resources or cost anything.
An even better plan with more direct cash, and much easier to sell to merchants would be to have the page say, "Here is a list of local merchants that support this access. Go buy something from any of these merchants. When you buy, ask for a wireless access card."
You give the merchants the cards, which are like prepaid phone cards with an ID# good for an amount of access to your network. People buy a small item like a coffee and they get a card good for a few hours or an afternoon. Buy a big item and get a card good for a month or whatever.
You could sell these cards to merchants, or better to give them free and bill them for the ones that get used.
Or customers could just buy the cards from you directly, of course.
Has it been over a year since you last donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation
Sure, I'd use it. And I'd be sure to either turn off graphics or block the site that hosts the ads. Oh, and when websites I wanted to visit didn't work because of the stupid proxy involved, I'd stop using it, and tell my friends how much it sucks.
Lets see.
:-)
A Linksys wireless gateway runs for about $120, on a one time expense. Lets amortize it to a year, since in a year we'll probably have some more popular wireless tech anyway. So that's $10/mo.
Speakeasy provides DSL to business locations at around $125/mo.
We're up to $135/mo.
Assume a 30 day month. That's $4.50 a day.
Will your business make an extra $4.50 a day from either new customers or old customers that stay longer? If so, put up a hub and a sign outside, and start beating the crap out of Starbucks.
Starbucks itself is an interesting case: They demanded this gigantic infrastructure to charge patrons, and now have to charge $30 a month to break even. If they hadn't built the infrastructure *to* charge $30/mo, they wouldn't *need* the infrastructure to charge $30/mo. Amusing.
Complex roaming systems aren't really so logical with data networks. It really is cheaper to provide internet access -- it's not just tariffs; fault tolerance and random latency saves engineering work and increases flexibility. The biggest gotcha for cafe wireless is people that turn the cafe into their office; even at a dollar an hour for coffee, I can't imagine a particularly social environment forming. But this is already a potential problem, and hasn't really hit too badly. If it does in some limited contexts, just kill the power plugs. Built in time limit
Incidentally, it is *not* economical to use telephone service in the US for "cheap modem access", since business phone lines are metered by the minute.
--Dan
I've spent some time looking at this idea. What it mostly boils down to is risk. There are a lot of factors involved that are hard to predict:
* Your type of customers
* How frequently and how long they use it (how many ads)
* Add prices
and so on.
On the bright side, it does offer some unique potential, such as localized ads. Server out ads for the stores around your location.
For most people who have looked at this I think it's usually boiled down to the revenue stream (if any) being too hard to predict to justify a major rollout, while there are some minor pilots on the way.
Terje Elde
just less of it. They used to offer 40 hours a month free, now they offer 10 hours a month free, unlimited access for $10 a month. I used them for a while when I lived in a DSL/Cable dead zone. It wasn't actually all that bad, and the pay version is banner-ad-free.
Then what are you doing reading Slashdot?
Free ISP's didn't make it, how would free Honeypots?
Not trying to give you crap, but VPN works fine through NAT. I use it every day.
Ummmm...
How are you going to get a banner ad in when I check my e-mail via a wireless handheld?
How about using the wireless link to stream a video/audio clip? What about P2P access?
You are making two big assumptions:
1. People are going to browse the web.
2. People are using a screen big enough to see an ad.
It would really piss me off if your banner ads wiped out 60% of my PDA real estate.
Local ads is a good idea that may work, but you're missing a lot of details.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
I think 75% of the banner ads I have clicked on have been leading me to thinkgeek.
Some of them have even resulted in purchases. The difference between that and 95% of what's out there is that I know thinkgeek and what it is. I'm not being attracted to the company but to the product advertised. I know the company is reputable and that if I really want the product, I've just found a good place to get it from.
This is very different than click the money and similar scams of that nature. Unfortunately these people can still afford to do it so they must be doing something right.
Targeted, targeted at past customers is even better. If the coke ad makes me go get a coke then I'm gonna need one to go replace it. Ads don't attract new customers in the real world, they jsut enhance familiarity with a brand name.
Why should it be any different online?
Brian
The advantage I see is that the advertiser has an exact idea of who'll see his ads-the café's customers. For local stores, it would be a waste of money to advertise on the internet even if they can choose the region in a quite exact matter. On a WLAN, advertising would make sense because a higher percentage of viewers would possibly be interested in the ads' contents, leading to a higher response. I imagine the PC store on the next block advertising his latest offers...
where's all that Karma?
All I can say is, the smaller the screen, the bigger the annoyance of an advertisement. It's bad enough having a banner on a 1280x1024 screen, let alone one on a 400x300 screen, or whatever the smaller mobile devices will tend to have... laptops aside.
instead, make each link on a loaded webpage, a page to an ad, (or every 5th) then the last thing to load on the ad is a link to the desired page..
(ever crawl thru msnhomeadvisor?- every few pages, instead of your page you get a 'sponsor' page)
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Excuse me techies, now that we are all considering the possiblities, how do you atually get your proxy to include the banner add string into each and every HTML file that enters your network? or is it done in some other way?
The simple answer is a resounding no. You are asking me if I would accept the internet as a push media simply because you make it available by air. I expect, and will do what I can, to keep the air free. If we go down the advert path, it won't be long before the FCC revamps it's obsolete mandate with licenses and all that for "internet broadcasts" and the media becomes the same push shit we see on TV and hear on the radio where you and I are not welcome. I'd rather go down the free co-operative path that the internet was designed for.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Since most of the locations in that area seems to be hang-out type places, you should present them with a real business opportunity, and opportunity lays in rewording your proposals:
... but most people, especially small business owners, are really keen on communities and opportunities, especially if they're cheap and come with "value added" features (the free image thing I mentioned earlier).
Instead of selling advertising space, get businesses to sponsor the site. Tell them the benefits of having a local wireless node (ie: people stay longer, and buy more things), the growth of the wireless market, the building of the community in the area, etc.
After you're done telling them what great stuff it will do for them, tell them how much work they have to do: zero. You take care of all the administration. They don't have to install, touch, or worry about anything -- they just have to pay a very low monthly fee.
Then tell them that they get a free promotional image that gets sent to users who are using the network. People love free stuff.
Some people will figure out that they don't actually have to pay for it to have access to it in their shops
Regardless of how you decide to approach it, remember that you're offering opportunities, not selling advertising space. It may be the same thing in the end, but the mind set and language is different, and that difference is usually what makes and breaks businesses.
Technology is the foundation. Presentation is the business.
How's this idea....
Simply require the user to start browsing at a web page, which of course lists "special deals" at local businesses. Make them click on at least one for more info. Then just let them surf for a while with no more interruptions.
Every time a new DHCP lease is assigned, make them go to this page and click an ad. Make the leases last maybe 2-4 hours.
I don't think that would annoy anyone too badly. The question is could you get enough interest from local businesses to fund the thing and feed yourself. Heck, if that would be profitable I might try to set something like that up here in Salem!
I think he was talking along the lines of the thing that alladvantage had a couple years ago where it was a program that ran at the bottom of the screen with banner ads. This would communicate with the server to block or allow web access.
However, to answer your question, it is possible to add code to web pages (ie for banner ads). The WWW requests are going through his gateway/proxy. It is possible to detect an HTTP stream and ad the banner ad code.
_______________________________
"I'm not Conceited...I'm just a realist..."
Would you use a honeypot (...) if you had to have a framed banner ad at the top of every page you visited while on the network?
By "framed banner", are you referring to frames in HTML? Because if so, it would take me about three minutes to whip up a JavaScript bookmarklet that I could stick in my toolbar to override/close those frames. And Mozilla provides an easy way to block ads (by refusing graphics files from sites other than the requested domain).
(Yes, I know that JS cannot be used to actually close an individual frame, but just grab the contents of the "good" frame and open a new window with just those contents, etc... pretty limitless what you can do.)
"First you gotta do the truffle shuffle."
Hi Sounds like a start of an idea, maybe you might like to add this to it. 1. sell access cards at local stores that give you say $20, $50 or $100 of credits on your system (no need to use credit card over Wireless). 2. when people first connect (their MAC address is not registed to an access card) you ask if they want to use advertising or enter an access card. 3. Advertising is full screen (always on top) adds that you need to click close to get rid off. Pop ups every 10 to 15 minutes or so (can be longer gaps for off peek times). well thats my 5c worth (no 1 and 2c coins here) Puggs
Access Point Live Mapping Access Points with Google
Most every metropolitan business that included employees that carry laptops or have desktop computers which I have ever been - provided internet access to their employees already.
Now I'm not saying I'd expect you to be spanking to porn using your work connection, but personally, I don't want to see you spanking to porn wirelessly in the park or the local coffee shop either.
http://windows.scares.us
Since it is such a localized area, perhaps billboards or other signs might be better. I'm not sure how you could profit from these, but they are harder to ignore and hit more than just your users.
Urgo: "I want to live. I want to experience the universe and I want to eat pie!"
Jack: "Who doesn't??"
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
The only way to make money on the internet is PORN!
Not honeypot, which is something different... :-)
Still free, though.
Starbucks a few years ago was planning on having a wireless network that when you drove by one of their many locations, your phone would beep with a little textmessage asking if you wanted to order a coffee. If you said yes then you could go thourgh your premade list of your favorite drinks, not even need to talk to someone, pull in and your drink would be done. This was a great idea for wireless advertisments, but it never took off.
Sure, I'd use the service, if I happened to be in the area.
I also think that it would be relatively easy to sell to local advertisers since they'd know that their ads were reaching people within a few blocks of their premises.
However, given the low eye count that you'd have at any given time, I doubt that you could charge very much for the ads. If you're running the system from your own premises, then you could still make a profit after expenses, but if you have to rent the location, likely not.
-deane
When you buy (yes, pay for), your morning newspaper, do you bitch about the advertising in it? Hm, no.
When the magazine slip inside drops out, do you bitch about it? Hm, no.
These two things could be compared to banner ads and popup ads (the latter of which do annoy me). Banner ads don't bother me, you don't have to look at them, they're not too big. Popups and lingering popups should die a painful death - I wouldn't object to them being made illegal.
Banner ads aren't effective. Even on high traffic sites, it's unlikely to make you rich.
But, you have to get things into perspective. Banners don't really spoil your viewing, it's the other dirty tactics of the affiliation monkeys that cause the problems.
It's true that other advertising-based-isp's have failed. Not sure why, it was more than likely the service that sucked due to over-subscription than the actual ads making people move away from it. I remember trying one in the UK when this kinda stuff first came out - it sucked, mainly because it kept on dropping me offline all the time. The little ad bar (a bit like the AllAdvantage one) wasn't a big issue (although it did crash sometimes, crap code).
If it was done cleanly with minimal system interference, I can see this being viable, clearly.
"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story..."
You would have to make people download some stuff that would run as root before they could get on your net. Or you would have to disallow forwarding on your gateway and make some sort of page forwarder on your web server, that would only be accessible through a page with the banner ad in, say, one frame at the top, and the forwarded page below. But then you couldn't use the network for anything but surfing and certain kinds of surfing wouldn't work i bet. Well, actually, you could disallow forwarding on just port 80, then people could do other things besides surf. Hmm, maybe you could do this. I'm scaring myself, maybe I should go help the fascists in Beijing lock down the PRC internet. blech. Maybe joining a network like Sputnik might enable a more sane solution.
KLAATU, BORADA, NIh*ahem*
why isn't this modded as a troll no one could POSSIBLY believe in the sentiments expressed in this post.
That was classic intercourse!
Most people who purchase in business get their info through banner ads they work essentially. As I type this now I see a sourceFORGE banner and it kind of make me want to check on my many neglected projects there.
Why in the world would I be using wireless access for web browsing?
That's clearly any sysadmin's most miniscule use of bandwidth.
In any case, anything I'd do on your wireless network would be going over IPSec back to my apartment, so it's not like you could add the ads anyway...
Do you have a
To build on the previous comment, it may be a good idea to talk to the local gov. to see if they would be interested in setting up a community bulletin board type banner instead of traditional ads. They could charge som fee per ad ect. which could help cover cost and advertising. You would get very targeted, relevant advertising since eneryone using the portal would be in town, and they may also be able to help cover against the legal issues which may pop up since you're involving them from the start. It's just a thought.
They tower over the genitals of lesser men.
Also they have wireless ethernet broadcasting devices built in.
Free wireless access covering a certain geographic area with lots of shops.
Financed by commercials.
You must deal with these issues before you go ahead:
Are any users interested in such a network? Which is what you were asking us here
Don't ask us, ask the people in the area. Consider where people would use their laptop in the area.
Make a small survey and ask people in the area. I guess the cafes would be one possibility.
Are any companies willing to finance such a network?
Since you that know people are in that area, you can advertise locally. E.g. "Victor's Cafe is just around the corner. Live music every thursday and friday."
Make up some case stories and ask some of the local companies what they would be villing to pay for advertising. Don't forget that the company also has to pay some advertising agency to produce the ad. Ask the companies which commercial formats they would prefer (banner ad/web page/movie clip/something else).
How do the users connect to the network?
If all users have to install some special software from you, you will not have any users. Because they have to learn about this software first (you have to advertise for your software). And they have to get the CD-ROM with your software. And you have to support the software.
Forget special client software. The users must be able to connect using the software built into their operating system (most likely Windows).
How do you expose the commercials to the users?
Forget about banner ads. Banner ads are only bought in massive amounts (millions of exposures per campaign), and pay very little money.
Set up a public file server with commercials stored as MPEG movie clips and MP3 audio clips.
Set up your router, so it can intercept the users's web access and redirect them to full screen commercials. Intercept the first request of every user, and then intercept them every 15 minutes or so. Don't let the user continue until the commercial is over.
Which equipment do you need? How and where are you going to set up the equipment?
You need banner servers (and software), an internet connection, wireless access points, routers, etc. Some users might try to use all the bandwidth, so you need equipment to prevent that.
You also need some secure place to install the equipment, so it's safe from thieves.
Do you need any permits?
You need an internet connection that allows sharing the bandwidth like this.
Maybe you also need some official permit to set up wireless transmission equiment.
And a permit from the building owner where you are going to install the antenna.
How much money do you need to get started?
Make two detailed budgets. Include all equipment, permits and special made software.
One budget shows what it would cost if you got everything done by contractors. The other shows how you are really going to do it.
I guess you are going to do a lot yourself, so the first budget will show you how many hours you must put into it to get it up and running.
How much does it cost to maintain the network?
Again, make a budget. The equipment uses electricity. And it needs repair sometimes.
In 3-5 years all your equipment is obsolete and you have to upgrade it.
How do you get the companies to pay for the commercials?
You already thought of commercials.
You should also consider getting sponsors.
Talk to the larger companies in the area and ask if they are willing to sponsor some of it. Remember that it is easier getting sponsors to give you stuff than money. Get a computer company or computer shop to sponsor it by giving you some of the equipment. Maybe HP, DELL or whoever will give you the computers and maybe Cisco will give you the routers.
Make a pretty presentation of your project before you contact the potential sponsors.
Big launch or small start?
You can either go the big way and consider everthing first, like I suggested here.
Or you can just set up some cheap equipment initially, and see where it all leads. This is cheaper and easier.
But I recommend making a budget anyway, and perhaps getting a single sponsor.
If you start small, make sure to set up the network where people will use it.
Good luck.
Feel free to contact me by email if you go ahead, I would love to hear how it goes. Maybe I can help you on some of the issues.
You can reach me here:
M.B. Computers - strategic and technical consulting. This is what we do.
I'm the yahoo, as in "You Always Have Other Options." Don't bother trying to make money as a toll taking troll. Someone like me will be happy to provide access at no cost and I'll fight for my right to do so. What you propose can only be accomplished by perverting the structure of the internet, which was designed to prevent people from doing what you would.
Clear?
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.