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A 1974 Review of D&D
CleverNickName writes "Boing Boing pointed me to this 1974 review of the 'new' Dungeons and Dragons game. Some highlights: D&D was subtitled 'Rules for Fantastic Medieval Wargams Campaigns Playable with Paper and Pencil and Miniature Figures.' The reviewer concludes, 'In general, the concept and imagination involved is stunning. However, much more work, refinement, and especially regulation and simplification is necessary before the game is managable.'"
I remember playing D&D back then. Back when it took imagination to play a good RPG.
---
eeww, I'll have a crab juice.
I know Slashdot is renowned for posting news thats weeks or even months old, but *this* is just stupid!
Does it *get* more geeky than a story about D&D sent in by Wil Wheaton? I can't see how it possibly could.
If the review were more vehemently negative, the celibacy of thousands could have been averted.
use those dumb figurines, or was that just a TSR "trading card, collect them all" scam?
And 19 years and dozens of rule books later, the quest continues..... :-)
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
I've never played D&D - doing so required friends (which I'm already out of the running) that liked the game.
Still, I did collect a large number of AD&D cards, though I lost those after some water damage.
I've played Baldur's Gate, and it's pretty decent, but how much better is an actual D&D game?
go to rpol.net
and/or to www.pbem.com
for ultimate geekiness
play dnd (and other roleplaying games) online with little graphics, text only
play by post/play by email
OOC:I hope no one is recoding my IP
2003 1974
It's a link straight to a .gif, and they havn't been /.ed yet!
;)
What's wrong with you people tonight
Heh, this is great to see. It tickles me that this article was consequently dug up from more than likely a nice metaphorical archive 'dungeon'. I can't wait until D&D 3.5 Edition. Druids will change the most, but eh... Min/Max number crunchers will always find fun ways to make ridiculous characters. Thank god for (though intellectual) backwards compatibility. D&D has really evolved. Some would say for the worst, but it has always been this great, cheap hobby that promotes the imagination, mathematics, and cameraderie. A lot of people misunderstand and look down on Dungeons and Dragons, and I guess it's really refreshing to think that in 1974 that it had gotten a fair review. Pen and paper tabletop games tend to be a great hobby, and I think TSR handing their brainchild to wizards of the coast was for the best.
--
"pain is weakness leaving the body."The optimum solution seems to be play by phone, or when distances are too great, play by mail.
Oh I can see this working. "Hey, Fred, did you get my letter I mailed last week? You know, the one where I rolled a 20? I haven't heard from you yet. Did we kill the sucker or not?"
It was a cool book, a Dungeons and Dragons book. The adults told me that it was bad and made people act out elaborate fantasies and commit violent crimes. So I gave it up before ever actually playing it in the classic sense. But when this game for the Nintendo came out named "Dragon Warrior", I pounced on it. In a way, it a was a video game representation of what I loved about that book. I have since been a avid RPG video game player since.
If i had a dime for every rpg book i ever owned.... I still couldn't afford those stupid 3ed %$^# d&d books! At $30 each, you would think the WOtC was the Riaa.
...the Acolyte Dorn from the village of Thane ventured into the ruins of Takator...</from the article>
Whoa! Michael Dorn played D&D?? Coincidence that Wil Wheaton posts this story...I think not.
I am a meat popsicle.
While not gaming with D&D any more, I'm still RPGing with GURPS. Waste of time? Perhaps. But it's cheaper than drugs and less morally repugnant than professional sports (of what possible connection is there between me and a bunch of rich jocks playing a game with a ball?). Wife doesn't get gaming much, but then she's a solitare fanatic on the computer. Go figure.
I drank what? -- Socrates
And thus was born roleplaying with crayons. To think that D&D could have been a complex, complete role-playing system if not for this article. Instead it became the dice-rolling combat system it is today.
I give credit to D&D for starting the genre, but the genre moved past D&D long ago.
"Information wants to be expensive" - Stewart Brand, the same guy who said "Information wants to be free"
We recently got an email from a guy in Finland that he's going to duplicate a Unix box on commodity hardware! If you would like to give a hand, Send the person, Linus Torvalds an email or post on comp.os.minix ! He really needs your help.
Less rules was better in my opinion. It let me free my story-line, and a GOOD dungeon master could bend any rule to make the game better, or move it along at least.
If you want more rules, go play a game like mine sweep.
I suggest you read Slashdot
Most of you out there at least tried it once or twice. Even if the rules were horribly cumbersome and difficult to understand (for an 11 year old, anyway).
You rolled up 100 times more characters than you ever finished campaigns with, because you either had a DM that took great pleasure in killing you in the most demeaning way possible, or you simply never had the requisite 400 hours to finish a campaign in the first place.
If anyone hasn't, I pity you. You'll never appreciate what it's like to be "the wondrous wizard of Latin!" or even the "dervish of declension and a conjurer of conjugation, with a million hit points and maximum charisma."
On an off note, Karma can have a religious connotation to it. Charisma is a bit more non-denominational.....
Quotes courtesy snpp.com for those who know or care.
Just a few years later, about 1978 or 1979, the game "Traveler" riveted my interest in a much more interesting way. Then I got a car and a girlfriend, but I progress . . .
The couple of D&D Dungeons I was involved in then were interesting, but I never really got the "big deal" of it.
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
I'm especially amused at the bit about $3.50 apiece (or $10 for the whole set) being expensive. And here I paid sixty bucks for the three core D&D3 books and felt like I was getting a deal. I won't even start on how much all the other accessory books I've bought have set me back.
That said, D&D has come a long way from its roots. I've never played 1st edition, but I played a lot of second, and it in comparison to 3rd, it feels at the same time far too limiting and overly complicated. I was surprised how much they managed to simultaneously simplify the game and allow for so many more options.
Out of curiosity, those of you who have played all three and a half revisions of D&D, which one did you like the most?
It's fascinating to read this. By the time I was a nerd, AD&D had taken over, and had certainly corrected enough of the deficiencies to make it playable.
But what makes this so interesting is that so many of todays PC RPGs have their basis in D&D rules. Sure, they've evolved significantly and taken different directions in different games, but the fact remains that most RPGs have their battle decisions based on complex mathematical rulesets, and D&D basically introduced these. (Orc attacks with 3d8, beating your 2d10 defence and inflicting d8 damage.)
Early computer 'RPG' were very simplistic in their battle rules, rarely better than 'attacker wins', but by the time that home computers advanced enough to support better rulesets, there was a very advanced 'template' for developers to start from.
The strange people who played this all night long in the lounge.. As far as I know they all are still virgins.
Get a free ipod.
How the hell is the DM supposed to physically abuse the players if we did that?!
I'll form my OWN solar system! With blackjack! And hookers!
I'm the same, but a lot newer to D&D, since my first RPG I've actually got into was Neverwinter Nights (which got reinstalled after a break a couple of nights ago. God damn that lack of sleep!)
Here's an interesting story....
My father's family ran a small printing business in Twin Lakes, WI (not too far from Lake Geneva). Back in the early 70's, these two guys from a small company came to my dad needing booklets to be printed for a new game. He and his brother decided against taking the risk of doing this large job and turned them down. It turns out that they were from TSR, trying to get D&D printed. Doh!
ÕÕ
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Yes, I imagine anyone who's ever spent $400 on a modest army for Warhammer Fantasy Battle, and spent the better part of $100 on rulebooks and "Codices" so they know how to use the army, would sympathize with you. That $10, even with inflation, was probably a bargain.
Freedom: "I won't!"
When I was DM for a D&D game in my younger days one of my friends kept nagging me that he wanted me to place a +5 magic vorpal sword in the game for him to find. I got tired of the nagging after a while and told him he could roll the 100 die and if it came a 00 I would give him the sword and otherwise, he would lose all his considerable magic items. I thought he was a sucker for taking the change but he did and lo and behold he rolled the die and got the 00.
Someone pointed out this story to Gary yesterday , interestingly enough.
You might want to check out his new MMORPG, based off his Paper-and-Pencil game Lejendary Adventure. A FAQ on the online game is here.
some of the best games I've played where ones in which we rolled the die, 20 meant good, 1 meant bad, and anything inbetween was entirely random.
The games are about role-playing. Keeping track of shit just gets in the way. Hit points, and how much gold you have. Ignore anything else. You shot him with an arrow did you? Well shit, then. He sure as hell is dead. Grazing shots my ass.
And I'll tell you, I'm sore.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
michael, don't you realize that Dungeons & Dragons is a tool of The Devil? Satan uses D&D to warp and manipulate young minds into doing the will of darkness! How dare you use such a popular forum for advocating and informing people of this horror. D&D is nothing but suicide, sex, drugs, and evil! Burn it!
Oh wait a minute, you mean it's just a game? Sheesh!
Why bother.
"The scope is too grand, while the referee is expected to do too much in relation to the players ..."
The beauty of D&D can be boiled down to two propositions:
1. Anything can happen.
2. The Dungeon Master is God (and a capricious one at that).
This is why computer rpg's are, at best, pale imitations of a good pen and paper game.
"However, much more work, refinement, and especially regulation and *simplification* is necessary before the game is managable."
Well, they sure blew THAT one, didn't they?
KFG
As Penny Arcade pointed out about Magic: Online...
Freedom: "I won't!"
..Probably because NWN can actually give some manner of representation of roleplaying.
Just like the zealots here scream every time some reporter misues the word 'hacker', I'm going to start screaming every time some game company misues the term 'roleplaying'.
To put it simply, killing the monster, getting the experience, and winning the game ain't roleplaying. Sure, you can have killing the monster - violence happens. Sure, you can have getting the experience - without 'coded' rules, there'd be no roleplaying due to twinks and "powerplayers". Winning? That's right out. You can't win in a roleplaying game.*
Fight the system! Damn the man! Screw the bastards who wish to corrupt good, fine words!
* Unless you roll a three-sided die and have it land on an edge. Then, you have won, and may never play another roleplaying game. Ever.
'In general, the concept and imagination involved is stunning. However, much more work, refinement, and especially regulation and simplification is necessary before the game is managable.'
Amen to that, brother! Maybe the fourth edition rules will clear this up...
that you will always roll a 20; eventually you should catch on that an AC of 20 isn't good. Or is it now? I gave up a few years ago when they inverted the base rules.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
I have a friend that has been DMing and playing since D&D first came out, and he still uses the original booklets as his world basis. I've read them, they're awesome compared to the shallow crap that TSR releases now.
Took them almost 30 years, but they've done what he suggested in the review!
The1Genius - Littera Scripta Manet
Last year's release, Neverwinter Nights by BioWare, is the game to get if you want some good D&D action. In fact, the multiplayer mode is just like playing tabletop D&D but via your computer and the Internet. Multiplayer supports a Dungeon Master who can modify the world in real time. He can take complete control of monsters/characters, place monsters into the world on the fly, further the story depending on the actions of the players, etc. There are also tons of mods out there now.
Scarily enough, i have rolled a six landed on a corner....
For me, playing RPGs (one of them being Pool of Radiance for NES) got me started on AD&D back in high school. I didn't stick with the paper and dice AD&D due to my hectic schedule. That's why I really got into AD&D RPGs for PC since I can save the game in progress and pick it up later when I end up with some free time.
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
Did anyone else find that the best way to create realistic landscapes was to just take topographic maps of the world and either zoom in or rotate them (or both) so that most players wouldn't recognize say, the Grand Canyon, the Himilayas, etc. Even the Great Lakes look weird when turned around and cropped down a bit.
I do find that world creation is the most satisfying part of gaming. Too bad there's not enough time to play through all the stuff I've created, even if I could find in the boxes in the attic.
I drank what? -- Socrates
And websites to ?!?!?!???! ;P
Sanity is a majority vote.
Come on, it's FUN :)
Just my 0.0184536 EUR worth
(exchange rate as of 2003.02.22 05:57:21 GMT)
Man come to think of it... why doesn't Tom Hanks submit star trek stories to this site?
I try, but they keep getting rejected.
-Tom
I wasn't playing in 1974, but, in 1979 (I think) I won a gift certificate from my toy store down the street and spent about half of it on a box with a dragon on it. Everyone in the thread is talking about a white box, but I specifically remember it being blue, with a blue book (same dragon) maybe 60 pages long. I had no idea what an RPG or even miniatures were, and this book was still big on miniatures. At 11 years old, and never having played anything but cards and board games, I read it maybe seven times before something clicked and I got this rush of excitement as I realized that is was so much more of a game than I had ever dreamed of.
I made my mother sit down and play it with me (she hated it). I found some friends at school and convinced them to play, but no one could really get the hang of it. I wasn't any kind of DM, either.
It took about another two years of me trying to find people to play begore I hit the jackpot, and by the time I gave it up at 17 years old, I had amassed 30 different boxed set games, all of whigh I donated to the gaming club of my university when I went.
I recently found some interest in playing again, and happened across a Open Documentation license game, here
If anyone can tell me what kind of edition that blue box was (D&D, not AD&D), I would appreciate it.
Put identity in the browser.
Should you decide to play, have fun with it and keep an open mind.
That having been said, you should:
Oh yeah, get some dice. A nice big set of "matching" dice may look nice, but the favorites become those sets that are a hodge-podge of dice bought here and there. ;)
I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
*Finishes printing off the excel spreadsheet for his 6/6 psionic,Gray Elven Cleric/Magic-User*
Me? Play D&D...never
Craenor
Did anybody bother to tell the archers that? :)
Even bullets don't usually kill. The wounded almost always outnumber the dead.
That doesn't mean that isn't their purpose. It's only a question of how effective they are about managing the job.
And Robin Hood had the patent on those killer arrows nearly a century ago. Don't blame it on Peter Jackson, he's just following the formula.
Six shooters not only killed a bad guy every time they went off, they never needed reloading either.
KFG
Ahhh D&D - the lost hours of Jr High, High School and parts of College. The ONLY place you could get it in NYC was "The Complete Strategist" - Played EVERY Saturday for something like 7 years - 6 hours at a time. My best friend brought a childhood family friend along one day, and she joined the group. That must have been 1978. In March of 1980, she made it clear she wanted to be my girlfriend
We'll be married 15 years this summer. I still see the friend that introduced us all the time (we're God Parents to each others children)
D&D brings back memories
-- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
Jeez, I was the one who submitted this story to Boing Boing. I never thought Slashdot would go for it. I keep missing so many Karma opportunities....
What I said in the Boing Boing submission that Wil didn't repeat here is, the 1974 review is by a gamer named Arnold Hendrick. Hendrick went on to run Heritage Miniatures and to design some cool boardgames for Heritage's short-lived Dwarfstar game line. Later Hendrick went into computer games, working for Microprose and others; he helped design or develop many of Sid Meier's best-known titles. Hendrick's best-known work as sole designer is probably the 1992 Microprose fantasy game Darklands. Here's his MobyGames rap sheet and a Darklands FAQ.
What I learn from this: Be bold! Despite all qualms, submit to Slashdot!
And when I was a kid, my uncle had this weird book about gladiators. It contained all sorts of pictures and descriptions of fantastic men and strange items. The photographs were great. It also had a special game that he would play with me.
I'd like to read about some of the great reviews about the D&D movie. You know, I've never really watched it in its entirety -- I just couldn't stand to see any more. It looked intentionally sabotaged to be a very poorly produced hunk of blah. I mean, talking about anticipation and expectations we had for this movie.
For us, the selection, painting, and use of figures was an integral part of the gaming experience. The "dumb figurines" when combined with the battlemats made by Berkeley Games added a lot. They were particularly handy in instances where players had an imperfect mental picture: "My Aldryami Rune Lord *can* duck around the corner, get off a shot with his wonder bow, and duck back before the broos see him!"
I guess my biases as a game master (or DM, if you prefer the TSR-centric term ;-) are revealed.
In my day, Radeon 9000 cards were called FIGURES, and we liked it that way!
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
"Hi, I'm Gary Gygax, and I'm".... rolls die ... "Pleased to meet you!"
A 20-sided die, perhaps? Or a bunch of dice? Sword and staff cross?
Karma: 0xdeadbeef(mostly as a result of being newly allocated)
It wasn't actually D & D, but a similar game called Dragonquest. Me and my friend Dave played two brothers named Norbert and Ignacio Gleeps. We'd been playing these characters for a while and they were badasses. Mike (our DM) had been trying to kill one or both of us off for a while because we were getting too powerful. One day Norbert got captured by the good guys and was going to be hanged the next day. I don't recall what it was we did to deserve this, but I'm sure that it was a just punishment. Regardless, I had to find a way to spring my brother out of the pokey.
I tried a few things that night, but it was just a few of us against an army. I could never get close to where they were keeping him. The next day dawned and Norbert was carried out to the gallows while I watched from behind a nearby hill. I was going crazy! I couldn't think of anything to do, but I couldn't let them hang my brother! In desperation, as they fitted Norbert's neck into the noose, I notched an arrow into my big composite bow. Mike asked me what I was aiming at and I said "the rope". He laughed and said if I rolled a 01 (out of 100) I would hit the rope. Sure enough I rolled the first number....0. Then the second number came....1!! The arrow pierced the rope just as the trapdoor opened and Norbert fell to the ground trying to figure out why he wasn't dead. I stood, notched another arrow, took aim at the leader of the troops and nonchalantly asked, "Ok, who's next?" Nobody even twitched as Norbert hauled ass up to the hill where we were. We got the hell out of there before they could get their shit back in their socks.
Poor Mike....never did kill those characters off.
Admit nothing, deny everything and make counter-accusations.
At my age now, though (30's), I'm stuck with getting friends together to see boxing or ultimate fighting, and following up with the latest silly vaguely naughty party game. I wish I had the courage to suggest D&D, but then my secret past as a geek would be revealed
"Don't you know you're going to shock the monkey?"- Peter Gabriel
Is anyone aware of any church leader or something officially sanctioning D&D? I'm in the middle of a long argument that's reached a stalemate. I say it's all make-believe and harmless and the other person (who happens to be very religious) says playing at casting spells opens you up to the idea of casting real ones. Logic and common sense just doesn't work at all. I need a quote from someone like the pope or something.
c-hack.com |
And just think how far we've come. All this evolved into... NeverWinter Nights.
Wow.
My Greasemonkey scripts for Digg &
...from the first three books... "% in liar". Took me and my group forever to figure out that in wasn't some indication of how often the monster told the truth.
There there was the revelation when the first supplement (Greyhawk?) came out that dice could be other then six-sided. Four! Twelve! Twenty, even!
Damn... I haven't rolled a funky-shaped die in almost 20 years. I'm getting all teary-eyed and nostalgic.
-
I am NOT a man!
I am a free number!
i really wish mainstream news would do this as well. i'd really appreciate a "how did we get here" column every once in a while, and i'm sure it would teach a lot of people on both sides of the political line a lot.
I know there are a lot of lazy clickers out there so here's the links. Mirima Tyalieand the pic
Play in person is usually impossible, because the referee can only show the adventurer the terrain he is crossing at that instant, plus whatever is in his sight ... The optimum solution seems to be play by phone ...
... what about 40 people get a dedicated world and 24-7 human referees providing open ended storylines. They each pay $500/mo or so to support their referees. Professional DM-ing!
... I had a good DM in junior high and that guy spent every waking hour of the week (including school, natch) coming up with enough material for one session a week ... and I was a junior high school kid so my standards of entertainment weren't so high.
hehehe.
Computers handle the mechanical aspects of "being the referee" so well. but I never really got into these newfangled muds/mmorps the kids like nowadays, because the human referee was so much better at the storytelling component of it.
Maybe the computer allows things to scale a little bit
I guess the referee interface to the world would have to get much better so that they could keep up
-- p
The funny thing was there were twenty of us and just a single game pack (common indian problem..), so we improvised: Three rival factions evolved each with their own games, tables, die etc. Can't be too accurate here, but I think they were named Monsters and Mazes, Commandos and Cxxxx et
And oh by the way we were around 9/10 yrs old then
In the review, it talks about "ChainMail" - which is a fairly meaningless comment for modern readers unfamilar with the context.
"ChainMail" was an earlier set of wargame rules for large scale battles between medieval armies. As I recall, it had a brief appendix covering some add-on rules to allow wizards, orcs, dragons and such like to be added into the battles as a bit of a laugh.
Using the ChainMail rules for purely fantasy warfare became very popular - probably more so than the non-fantasy aspect of the rules. That (I suspect) is the reason that D&D came into being.
The reason the original D&D rules seem confusing is that they assume full knowledge and applicability of the ChainMail rules.
Steve - Chaos/Cleric/Hobbit 19th level - circa 1982.
OK - I'm about geeked out now.
www.sjbaker.org
Why is everybody comparing computer RPG's to P&P RPG??? The P&P is without limits, if you can imagine it, you can do it. Now show me a Computer RPG that can do this, not that Computer RPG's are bad, but they are somewhat limited. The computer has one merit, you can play the RPG's alone. I use both, playing Computer RPG's of D&D since the Golden Box series, and playing D&D P&P since 1990, so don't tell me am bias.
"Holy instant noodle"
shhhh.. don't let emthey in on the evolutionre!
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
And the DM was a total idiot. That game requires alot of patience. The sad thing is.................I wanna play again
Defender of Microsoft and Communism!!!
I know that there are quite a few gamespy-haters on slashdot, but last night gamespy hosted a chat with Gary Gygax. A few interesting questions were asked. I captured a log of the interview for your reading pleasure:
/msg Cobby question and we will post on your behalf (time permitting)
....
/msg Cobby your question and we'll ask it for you, time permitting
:-)
:)
:)
:)
:-)
:)
:D
I'll let Spiff take care of the intro's
To ask a guestion, please type
Drum roll please
I'd like to welcome everybody to today's special subscriber only Arcade event!
This is the very first of its kind for Arcade, and we hope to do more such events in the future.
To kick them off, though, we've got a doozy for you -- an exclusive chat with the *original* Dungeon Master himself, Mr. Gary Gygax
Home: Join us for a chat with Dungeons & Dragons inventor and RPG guru Gary Gygax on Fri., Feb 21st at 3 p.m. PST 6 pm EST 11 pm GMT right here in the Arcade Subscriber's lobby! Lobby moderated - to ask a question type
Ahem.
As the topic notes, Mr. Gygax is one of the developers of the original Dungeons and Dragons pen & paper role playing game
A game that sucked away hundreds, if not thousands, of hours of my life away
Would you believe the author of same? (^_^)
I would!
Heh...
Ok are we ready to get started?
His influence can be not just on RPGs, but on the world of computer games that we've all come to know and love.
So, warm up your brains, and lets get some questions going!
Here we go:
*Ganja-Hamster* Did you expect your creation to get as big as it has and develop such a large following?
for those wanting add me to their lists, sorry, but I need to concentrate on the questions. I'm a slow typist.
When i wrote the D&D game computer's werenot uced by regualt peolle, I thought the D&D gtame would appeal to wargamers and SF fans, so counted on about 50K sales only.
when you're done answering, please add so I know to post the next Q
*FireBall{2}* can you ask him for me how long it took to make the game and how many people were involved in the development of the game?
It took me two weeks to write the first 50 pp ms. for D&D. The play-testers for that period were my son Ernie and daughter Elise
We then added several other persons to the game--Don Kaye, rob and Terry Kuntz. that was befroe the two weeks were up and the rules actually on paper
From their input and thst of about a dizen gamer friends at various colleges, I expanded the rules to 150 pp in the spring of 1973. That ms, was published as the D&D game.
*KungFooFairy* *Do you regret selling the rights to D&D?*
Yes, but I was fed up with the crap at TSR, so i wanted out of that mess. I should not have divested the rights, clearly. But what the heck, Istill love gaming and writing new material, so it isn't that sad a thing...
*{pDs}The_Spaniard* I am not familiar with the D&D universe but I have a basic idea how would you explain it to someone who has never heard of it before?
Sure:) the game is a class-based one in which palyers create a character to "adventure" in a quasi-medieval setting. They meet NPC and monsters, solve problems, explote, and gain experience to become more able. that cover it?
yep
*crt* Have you played Neverwinter Nights? What do you think of their implementation of "live" online dungeon masters?
I must confess to being such an addict of online and computer games that I do not play them. No work gets dne for weeks or longer if I so much as start. From what I have been told, though NWN is pretty close to the paper game experience.
BTW, a game of mine is likely to come up as a MMPO RPG in some months, so then I'll have an excuse to play:)
*xPLASMAx* do you think the rules for D & D work for PC based games aswell as the original game ????
that's hard for me to judge, buy in general I know that the computer frmat requires some considerable change in rules and mechanics from the PnP version. In all, though, the latter rules form a good basis for developing a computer game certainly,
*painartist* Why CRPG's now, what makes this the right time for you to make the transition from Pen and Paper?
Heh! The majority of the RPG audience is playing online and CRPGs, and I took a foray into the latter field back in the early 1990s. three games optioned, and all canned for no fault of the game:( SO I wnet back to PnP, did a new RPG i loved, and figured it would serve as the basis for getting into the computer game field as well,
*KungFooFairy* *How do you see the future of Pen and Paper games faring against todays and tomorrows MMORPG's?*
PnP RPGs will remain the finest esperience--untik the holodeck of the Star Ship enterprise can be created. I think of them as anolagous to Broadway theater, the MMPO game as TV, and the CRPG as a motion picture:)
*StoneRook* "of all the D&D movies/show made - which one do you think was true to your vision?
Gah! The lotR films are good, more like a D&D film than others. Big Trouble in Little China came close in a modern setting. I really liked the first "Harry Potter" movie two, but the second one was a letdown.
*ColdAsIce_* What first gave you the idea to create D&D and have you follwed the examples of some great RPG's we''ve seen over the last year or so?
that question requires an essay length response, going back through my childhood. the most immediate inspiration for the D&D game came from the "Fantasy Supplement" in the CHAINMAIL miniatiures rules that I wrote and was published in 1971.
*{10th_Mtn}AlienHead_* will Mr. Gygax be working with any game developers personally on any rpgs in the future?
I am booked for some time doing paper game products, but if the lajendary adventure mmp GOES FORWARD, LIKELY THERE WILL BE crpg DEALS THAT i WILL BE INVOLVED IN.
*DJO_BrYaN_USMC|NOVA|* What are you doing now a-days? Job? etc....
Oops, didn't mean to shout...
I am very busy writing PnP game material. Besides stuff for the new FRPG system, I have a line of generic d20/La game reference books, and several adventure modules out or about to hit.
*Lokust* (question for Gary): Mr. Gygax, some consider you the largest single influence on fantasy gaming as we know it today. Do you feel that assessment is accurate, and is it a humbling feeling? Or do you feel that fantasy gaming would have evolved as it has without your work on D&D?
Well, that's a tough question, in part. I'll do the easy stuff first. Yes, no question most PRG around sprang from my D&D/AD&D work, and yes, I feel rather humbled by it. Now, as to it coming into being without CHAINMAIL and D&D, who can say? given time, possibly something would have emerged--maybe more influenbtial, maybe a bomb. Look at the D&D film as an example. think of a game as bad as that movie...
*DS-ManiacCop* "were you in any way influenced by J.R.R.Tolkin and how?"
I was mainly influenced in regards marketing. Having been a fan of F&SF since 1950, read back in the genre all the way to 1940, his work was nothing new to me. When isaw so many people taken by the Rings Trilogy, Iadded as muchg as possible of it into CHAINMAIL, then more into the D&D game. I am a great fan of THE HOBBIT, admittedly, and read it aloud to all of my children--three times through the book that way;)
*Behumat* how did you arrive at the name Dungeons and Dragons? And were there any other cool or funny titles you considered?
There's some wrong information about how the title came to be. What happened is that I wrote two lists of names for a potential title, each one word, and had them in two columns. Then I polled my fellow gamers and family as to which they liked best. When my daughter Cindy, then a little girl, jumped up and down at hearing "Dungeons & Dragons," I was decided. It had been my favorite, but one never knows...
*USMC_3rd_Battalion* What was the first monster you created in D&D?
I took all the monsters from CHAINMAIL. then I added some new ones.
Can I ask a quick follow-up?
sure
What was the first monster you created for CHAINMAIL?
the first monsters for CHAINMAIL were a red dragon, a giant, a troll, ogres, and orcs--as well as elementals. I think that was the first roster anyway;)
*KungFooFairy* *Do you prefer class-based leveling as opposed to skill-based leveling and why?*
My current preference is for skill-based RPG.
I don't usually listen to anything but the whining of my players when I am GMing;)
*crt* how often do you play PnP D&D games these days? I assume you have a regular group you play with?
out of order, sorry. I play D&D seldom any more. I have run a regular LEJENDARY ADVENTURE game campaign for almost seven years now, and we have a weekly session on Thursday nights here at my house--7 or 8 regulars currently. I do DM some OA/D&D games now and then at conventions, of course.
*_-{12thMarines}-1Lt_* How did you think of the whole concept and what was the most satisfying part of creating D&D?
Oops! the essay-length query again. See above.
whoops!
*RT_Riyker* Is there any other type of game genre you enjoy other than RPG that wouldn't be too embarrassing to admit?
the most satisfying part of creating D&D was having fun DMing, playing, and knowing that so many of my fellow game fans were likewise enjoying the experience. Greatest thing of all, that!
*Hook{1}* Were your parents supportive of your work, or did you often hear the question, "When are you going to get a real job?"
Heh, by the time I wrote D&D I was in my early 30s and my father, rest his soul, was deceased. My mother and then-wife were somewhat concerned that I had left a career in insurance to be a game designer. They had some reason to worry, too, as I starved for about four years, eeked out a living doing other things while writing about 30 hours a week.
that should be "eaked" of course:(
*WiKiD-paybak* What is his opinion to those against D&D Like the Fundamenatlists out there who think its Demonic etc? ( Their all dumb in my opinion)
The critics seem to have a problem distinguishing fantasy from reality, bvetween game play and actual behavior in life. this is mostly due to ignorance and/or prejudice, encouraged by media of sensationalist sort.
*Avatar* You mentioned the Enterprise- Are you a big Star Trek fan?
While I can't say I am a Trekkie, yes. I do enjoy the STAR TRECK programs and the movies. I am not a Shattner fan, though.
*DirectX* is thier a time in your life when you will give all this up
Sure. when I am no longer able to write. Until then, though, I am enjoying the "work" too much to want to stop.
*KungFooFairy* *Do you believe that the playing of RPG's can have a positive influence on humanity as a whole?*
I know from countelss fan letters and emails that RPGs have had a very positive effect on about 99% of those who played. If that can translate to humanity at large, I suppose they can. right now I'd estimate the number positively impacted in the low millions, though.
We only have time for one more Q..
*DJO_BrYaN_USMC|NOVA|* Is there a website were we can stay up to date on your projects and find more info on you?
sure, lots of them, sorta...
My homepage is www.gygax,com My webmaster and host are currently readying an update that will have all that information on it, and my long biography too.
In regards to the LA RPG there is the PnP website www.lejendary.com
For the LAO game its www.LejendaryAdventure.com
www.dragonsfoot.org has a LA game section
I have a long pair of Q&A threads up on the boards at EN world--sorry can't recall the URL.
Anyone can email me at ggygax@genevaonline.com as well;)
Gary -- thank you SO MUCH for dropping by to chat with our subscribers.
Thanks for taking time to be here with us!
We -- and they -- appreciate your time.
Thanks too to all the subscribers who turned out for the event!
Hey, my pleasure to be here, and i consider it an honor to be asked, and to all the audience here I say "Thanks a lot!"
It's a building at 201 Sheridan Springs Rd. in Lake Geneva, WI.
They had all sorts of weird shit in there, like a tunnel that looked like it belonged in the Death Star, and a bunch of weather-proofed doors (which isn't so unusual, except that they didn't lead outdoors and the rooms on the other side of the doors had seperate ventilation systems). It was a pretty creepy place all together and the carpet had some really odd stains on it.
Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
Note the comment at the bottom: price is rather high at $3.50. Ah, how the times have changed: the books are now around $30...
D&D is still here and going strong... but Darklands... man that brings back memories. I loved that game. It was original, fun, and had long hours of game play... too bad they didn't really sell any copies... I would have really liked a sequel.
I played real-live D&D about four times. Three times in Junior High, with a bunch of fellow nerds. That was fun! Once, in college, with a bunch of stoner friends, smoking tons of weed, eating shrooms, and being WAY too into it. Anybody else play a game like the latter? I just went for the weed; these guys took the game way seriously, and all the psychedilics kind of added an extra seriousness to their game. D&D wasn't always dweeby.
How about that! So in the original D&D, ghouls didn't paralyze you; they boosted your charisma.
How bizarre.
Thanks for the correction on the link. I was in between classes and didn't have time for a preview ( or even a proofread, apparently). I have no idea how the link got slashdot in it...
Put identity in the browser.
RPGing will land you in the lake of fire
I quickly grew sick of the people I played with because of endless rule bending. Every game people were recreating the same type of 'bad-ass' characters who always kicked ass and never lost.
I saw something on TV about a place in Hollywood where (for a price)they'll arrange for you to participate in a mock Academy-Award ceremony complete with limo, screaming (but hired) fans, and a little gold statue at the end. Our sessions reminded me of this. Kind of takes the feeling out of slaying dragons if they just lay down at your feet and die. Sigh. I loved the game and my friends were great guys but I couldn't play like that. THAT mde me feel like a dork. It wasn't the whole fantasy world thing at all, it was the self-gratification.
Nethack comes the closest to real D&D I've ever played on the computer. Hack and Slash D&D, true, but the best kind of H&S. It felt like a real dungeon because it never stopped finding ways to bite you in the ass. And every time you would think "Aw man- I should have known better. What a great game.
I really wish people didn't give up on that kind of game, building in complexity instead of pretty graphics. Graphical systems aside from simple "what is where" systems limit good game play by ensuring that the programmers will have to make a bazzillion complex animations (etc) anytime you want to add a new feature. Nethack was 8 Meg and it had NO GRAPHICS. We still have cool old school wargames coming out, how about an old-school RPG?
Great, now we know it should be abbreviated to "D&D:RfFMWCPwPaPaMF".
Is pronounced "Dee and Dee Arfffmuussspawpahpahmf".
No I did not RTFA
What post? The one you're carrying inside your rusty innards!
Some years ago when we were playing our game master said "table RPG compared with computer games are like real women compared with GIF files". When you play table RPG like (A)D&D, GURPS or whatever, your imagination works, and it's always more colored, more creative and much, much more flexible than any computer game in the world.
Heh, its 6:30am on the east coast right now, and I just drove my girlfriend home.
;)
I'm glad you guys had fun last night without me
So you are totally socially inept, spend much of your time doing things that most would condider nerdy and haven't gotten laid in a very long time or probably never.
There are actually a lot of girls JUST LIKE THAT. Right now! On your campus! Attractive ones! In fact, even basic statistics and probability (and I know you're down with statistics and probability) tells us that some of them would willing, hell, even _excited_ to FUCK YOU!
Think you're insecure? Guess what? Girls are actually worse. WAY worse. Even the pretty ones- hell ESPECIALLY the pretty ones. Watch TV some time and look at the way women are still portayed, even in this day and age. Many, if not most, girls feel uncool, unsexy, and out of place a MILLION times a day and they actually prize above all else in a relationship is to feel like they are actually worthwhile _people_ and not maids, bitches or fuck toys.
YOU, a geek, nerd or dork can actually give them this feeling by doing nothing more than BEING YOURSELF. Feel unattractive? You can do a surprising amount to fix this. Loose weight! spend an extra 10 bucks on a haircut! Get a decent wardrobe that can STILL INCLUDE ANIME T-SHIRTS! Moisturize! Most girls are good at improving a persons looks. Ask one. She will probably love to help you.
Why are they so hung up on it? because our society tells them that they HAVE to be attractive while NEVER allowing them to live up to its standard of perfection. But you know what? Maybe they've learned something but you don't even need to be a chiseled slab of beef. Shocked?? Read on!
What you learned in high school is now WRONG! YOU CAN get a wonderful, even SEXY girl simply by NOT treating her like a SEX OBJECT and choosing NOT to be a FAKE ASS PLAYER! Believe it or not people just as nerdy as you have gotten HOT, smart, wonderful girlfriends by simply being loving, _attentive_, down to earth (like the way you are with your friends) people and also NOT DATE RAPING THEM!
No, you won't hit it off with every girl, but you are picky too remember? Find one that is like you. You have a star wars figure collection? Well your girl might have a collection of plastic horses from when she was twelve that she was TERRIFIED of anyone finding out about in high school. You will be able to relate a hell of a lot more than you expect. She might even love computers! She might even love linux! There's more and more every day! No, she's not Natalie Portman, but you know what? You won't care!!
You are, smart, well-educated, compassionate and a nice guy (or girl)-- in addition to being sexy (you are sexy right? If not, see above.) You are willing to be a good boyfriend instead of just a dick delievery service. YOU ARE A DAMN GOOD GUY (or girl). So stop whinning and get to work!!!.
GEEKS OF THE WORLD- YOU WILL GET LAID!!!!!
/robbins>
Note: Does not apply to those currently in or about to enter high school. You are all still shit out luck for a few years. Don't cry, we all had to be patient too.
(And I am absolutely serious, guys I kid because I love, and I been there, I am not trying to troll.)
Also: Go to a doctor and get treated for your depression/anxiety/bi-polar/ADD etc if you think you have it. Don't be ashamed, just fucking do it. Some (not all or even a whole lot- don't flame me) of you out there have some of these and they will fuck with your life until it gets fixed. Be brave. They are wonderful people and they can work miracles now days. They really can. Dealing with women is, as you know, very hard psycholoically at times. Especially meeting them.
o put it back at least partially on topic, though, remember that D&D, along with heavy metal music, was the cause of many right wing republicrat types and fundamentalist christians committing suicide during the 1980's!
However, much more work, refinement, and especially regulation and simplification is necessary before the game is managable And 19 years and dozens of rule books later, the quest continues..... :-)
2nd Edition got out of hand, and 3rd ED is a joke. Can't games come up with something better? You bet! -Contributions welcome!
Pinwheels Role Playing System
kids will be playing Neverwinter Nights instead of Pen and Paper D&D. I still have my D&D boxed setx from 1979 (Basic and Expert) and all my AD&D books, modules, etc. My kids will never know the thrill of having to read a 80 page book in 3rd Grade 3-4 times to get the rules down so you and your friends can play an imaginary game.
Now they just pop in a CD/DVD and click away. Killing the imagination and creative processes at an early age.
Ashitaka in "Mononoke Hime" has Legolas beat, even after the scenes of shield-surfing and strafing as he surfs. Ashitaka could shoot an arrow from Antelope-back (those are antelopes, right?) and BEHEAD you with one shot. And with a bad, demon-possessed arm, yet! Please, Legolas is a rank amateur next to him. And it took Ashitaka less time to learn his mad leet archery skills, too! Ph33r! :)
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
100 die? Never saw one of those.
Yes, you have indeed posted something quite gay.
Are you proud of yourself? Starved for attention?
"I wonder if that new FreeBSD project is going to go anywhere..."
"Nah, it's already DEAD!"
Snarkiness is inversely proportional to wisdom because it emphasizes feeling right rather than being right.
However, I feel let down when computer game developers merely throw the pen and paper system onto a computer. Since so much more is put into the prettiness of the game than in the actual gameplay and mechanics then I am left wanting so much more. So, what is a scalable ruleset that can more easily be expanded if computing equipment is used (whether just as number crunching or being an actual interactive gameworld) or simplified as needed for tabletop play? What I am looking for is a guide and cheat sheet for judging what tool (the ruleset or assisting calculator) is best for what need. While I believe in using the right tool for the job at hand I do not feel like getting a law degree in RPG & Action/Adventure rulesets just to find the basis for a ruleset I can use and even then have to start adapting and expanding it. Who would ever program if they had to manually create from scratch their own compilers each time they wanted a build to distribute?
I seek not only to follow in the footsteps of the men of old, I seek the things they sought.
When I was 10 the kids in the extremely rural area I lived in (less than 100 people in the place) got into D&D. My parents refused to even consider letting me play, especially after that damn Tom Hanks movie 'Mazes and Monsters' came out. Anyway, my mother's greatest fear about my playing it was that I would become a satan-worshipper. Never mind that our family was atheist...
Odd logic, that.
Ah. The Book Burn-a-Dex. The ever-reliable meter by which one can measure the level of ignorance and stupidity accompanying any social movement, religion or government.
Cute story! I shudder at the memories it conjures. I remember a jr. High teacher who came to one of our D&D sessions to instill similar fears in us kids. A respectable adult in a position of authority talking about the imagination being the realm of the Devil. And REALLY meaning it! Now THAT was creepy.
-Fantastic Lad
But you do realise that magic doesn't exist in any way, shape, or form, right?
[PowerPoint] is a tool for capitalist presentation
If not, then why do you store in the restrictive format? Why not just a "spreadsheet" (DIF or SYLK or soemthing) instead of an "excel spreadsheet"?
And no matter what he rolls."A grue eats you."
Best Slashdot Co
Good stuff! alt.seduction.fast!
Of course, when you talk about role playing games, and then segue into wanning to "do girls",
only one thing comes to mind... SUMMONER GEEKS!
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
it's a bit harder to pronounce than in the good ol' days....
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
I have real fond memories of playing D&D for months at a time. I'm convinced it kept me out of trouble.
Anyone remember Villians and Vigilanties? That was an awesome one!
I've got the 1975 edition of the original D&D rulebook. Which begs thequestion, do people collect D&D stuff now ?
Its no use to me now, it doesn't involve computers so my kids not interested in it.
But does it have any intrinsic value beyond the nostalgia of a 30 something's wistful thinking ?
From the article:
"These booklets are roughly comparable to "The Courier" in physical quality, but at $3.50 each are priced rather high.
Indeed. This put Dungeons & Dragons beyond the means of the Loch Ness Monster, for example.
d100
was usually two d10s - giving you combinations from 00-99 or 01-00.
He rolled two 0s with 2 d10s.
So who's going to kick off the Tunnels and Trolls revival thread??
Did I just hear a tumbleweed rolling by?
No wonder we're in the dire straits that we are today. Kids these days!
The D&D couples edition!!
I mean, hey, there's already a lot of swords and leather involved! I bet the furries would love it!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
...why would demons scream when thrown into fire? Wouldn't it be just like home? Also, I would guess that the flames of hell are a lot hotter than some little camp fire made by some young boy and his mommy.
"Oh geez Cthulu, we're being burned."
"It's not much hotter than southern California, really."
*both shrug*
Why bother.
It is imperative when flying coach that you restrain any tendency toward
the vividly imaginative. For although it may momentarily appear to be the
case, it is not at all likely that the cabin is entirely inhabited by
crying babies smoking inexpensive domestic cigars.
-- Fran Lebowitz, "Social Studies"
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