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FTC Moves up "Do Not Call" List Registration
tbase writes "AdAge.com has an article about the new FTC "Do-Not-Call" List which will be opening for registrations earlier than previously announced. The FTC Press Release says online registration will be available "on or around July 1." and that "Companies will face an $11,000 fine for each telemarketing call that violates the FTC's new consumer-protection provisions.""
$11,000 per spam would be nice for me. I'd quit my job and just post my email address all over the intarweb.
Can I sign up on the Do-Not-Mail list?
Also, the US government reccomended that citizens begin using their phone-based registration system: Allowing the government to levy a $11,000 tax on all who wish to be added to the do not call list.
I assert that my comment is only my opinion, not that of any employer, past, present or future.
The gov't would call us up offering the service, to block telemarketers! /me deletes another "block unwanted spam" message from his INBOX...
Looking forward to saving 15 bucks a month getting rid of Privacy Manager and caller ID.
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
Would be nice if it went directly to the individual(s) they phoned instead of into some politician's pocket.
"Just Smile and Nod." --Huck
The only change I'd make would be to forgo the fines in favor of treating telemarketers as "enemy combatants."
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
Here's hoping! Sounds like even though the FCC doesn't listen to shit, this might actually happen. This might me a real step in the right direction of protecting you and me.
we encoutered several evolutionary steps in the last few hundred years. "age of reason", "industrial revolution", etc.
with the dawn of spam email officially being attacked and now the phone solicitors, are we stumbling upon the "age of stop bugging me" or the "age of leave me alone, I don't need more sexual stamina"??
ever! I HATE PHONE CALLS! ALL OF THEM! especially pesky TELEMARKETERS! THEY ARE THE SUCK! If you call me i will hunt u down. I SWEAR IT! BY THE POWER OF GREY SKULL ILL KICK UR ASS! and dont think cuz i made heman refference i cant kick ur ass. I could totally kick ur ass, even while watching heman and chewing beef jerky.
one false call .. you can afford lots telephone sex calls for that ..
There HAVE BEEN "Do not call" lists for many years.
The phone still rings.
There HAVE BEEN "Do not mail" lists for many years.
I get more and more junk mail.
We all know how many "Do not email" lists exists.
Regardless of action the spam keeps coming.
How about a "STAY OUT OF MY FACE AND GET A REAL JOB/LIFE" list to cover everything. Damn, my doorbell just rang, I bet somebody wants to witness with me something about their God...
I am not complaining about a penalty. But why so much for EACH offense? Is $11,000 arbitrary, or is there some reasoning behind it? Where does the money go, and what is it used for? It just seems like a big contrast with the couple hundred dollar fine at the State level.
I told you not to show me this article
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
"Greetings, friends. Do you wish to look as happy as me? Well, you've got the power inside you right now. So use it and send one dollar to Happy Dude, 742 Evergreen Terrace, Springfield. Don't delay. Eternal happiness is just a dollar away." 'Happy Dude' Well, I guess Homer's marketing scam won't work anymore.... drats! There goes my retirement plan. :(
BTW, here is the FTC's current attempts at curtailing E-mail SPAM .
It really is amazing the amount of trouble and money we all have to go through to rid ourselve of this plague of unwanted advertsing. Seems like it should be illegal, don't it?
'He was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher... or, as his wife would have it, an idiot.' - Douglas Adams
Enforcement will still only begin in October, and even then with the way it is written, the telemarketers will not need to actually look at the list until January 2004, as they only need to check against the list once every 3 months.
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
I worked at RadioShack for six months a few years ago, and we were supposed to try and push additional things on our customers (cell phones, batteries, cables, more cell phones, and cell phones again). I hate suggestive selling. I hate doing it and I hate it being done to me. If I want it, I will buy it.
If I want info on refinancing my home, new windows, fixing my credit, buying a coupon book, getting another credit card, etc., LET ME SEEK IT OUT. I despise the thought that others (aka telemarketers) believe they know what I want or need better than I do. I am perfectly capable of deciding what products or services I wish to purchase, so let me decide on my own without invasive selling.
It gets kind of lonely here in my basement playing Quake and massaging my mom's feet.
Best Windows Freeware
Telemarketers do not follow current law. Very rarely do I get them to tell me their name or company name, let alone a manager name or address. 80% of them hang up when I ask to be placed on their DNC list.
.05% of the population wants or needs.
If they don't follow the law now, why will they follow it in the future.
And in terms of the phone companies, they see the law and fines as just another expense in a risk/reward scenario. Slamming has been illegal for many year, but they still do it because the fines do not match the profit they get from it.
This sounds like a great opportunity, but put me down as a skeptic. If the courts don't swat it down, then it will be simply ignored. The governments (local/state/federal) won't/can't enforce existing law.
I get up to 10 calls a day. I'm sick of it. My phone and my e-mail has been confiscated by marketers of crap that less then
Also, beware of the following: After this law takes effect, people will be out to get you to put your phone number on all sorts of things (product registration, checks, etc.) because the fine print will say that by giving your phone number, you waive your DNC status with them and their partners. Guard your phone number and e-mail address like you (should) guard your SSN.
"If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
This new law probably won't matter because it seems like most of the telemarketing calls I've been getting lately have been coming from India. If MCI hires an Indian telemarketing company to call me did MCI break this law? How does this apply to overseas telemarketers?
Hello, thank you for calling me. Pay $11,000. Goodbye, eat a dick, and have a nice day.
Wonder how much this is being backed by large corporations with the desired effect of choking off smaller copetitors with smaller marketing budgets?
How sleepless is the egg, knowing that which throws the stone forsees the bone.
I don't advertise my cell phone no. so i wonder how somebody got hold of it.
usually they ask for some other person, pretending to be a wrong number, but then ask me my name and where I live. Quite Annoying really.
for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
Damn, they're going to stop calling me? I'll miss them, cause now I cant listen to half their spewl, tell them I'm interested but i'll be right back and then put them on hold. Sometimes they're still hanging on after 15 minutes or so .. when I feel sorry for them and yell "FUCK YOU" and hang up on them.
(FYI, I know they're just doing their job etc. that's why I only do this to telemarketers who keep calling me back after I have told them specifically not to call me)
I wish they just gave us the name and address of spammers...that would be fun
If you want to get really technical about it, unless you request someone call you, every phone call is unsolicited. I understand the argument about how if you give someone your phone number then you are granting them basic permissions to call you, but unless you unlist your phone number it has to be assumed that your number is not only public, but an invitation for you to be called.
For every policy/law/order/decree there is a loophole or a way to get around it. Just a matter or time before this becomes nullified.
I am not going to be adding myself to this list for the main reason that I love telemarketers. I actually had a gentleman call me last week.
Telemarketer: Yes may I please speak to Doug.
ME: May I ask who's calling please?
TM: This is bob calling about an offer Doug just can't refuse
ME: I don't think he can, Doug killed himself yesterday , it was so sad he had gone to college and then dropped out to be a professional rollerblader and then after a horrible drunk driving accident he broke his left leg, needless to say his skating career was over. He needed money to pay off all the medical bills so he got a job as a telemarketer selling the stupidest things over the phone and trying his best to make his quota for the night so that he could make it home to shoot up and stop the pain. Day after day he would go to work and realize how low he had sunk and truly began to question his worthiness to society as a whole. I guess he finally realized he was worthless and ate a 12 gauge shotgun shell. Messy as hell, but effective, we're still actually trying to figure out how to clean it all up. And all that just because he had a lousy job as a telemarketer.
*click*
Don't know how effective it is, but think of it like as an invited prank phone call where you can fuck with them all day long. Tell them you want to buy all there stuff and give the credit card number of 8888-8888-8888-8888, which you know is your number because you ordered one off of the TV and that's the number that was on it. Or just really play with their heads, tell them you want them to seduce you into buying their product or role play with them, have them call you mr moneybags or something. Ask them out on a date or something, have some real fun, these people abosultely hate their job, trust me, and you can only make it worse for them.
Don't feel guilty, they called you ... remember?
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
Speaking of telemarketers, I got a pre-recorded call last night on my answering maching while I was out. It said to call an 877 number to get more info on this alarm system they were pitching. So I decided to call to inform the person that my state has a do-not-call list that they are obviously ignoring. Funny thing is, I could never get through. For over an hour, all I got was a fast busy signal. You'd think that the morons would at least want to make sure that the marks can actually call in so they can get suckered. Idiots!
But perhaps some other folks would like to check and see if they can get through. Their number is 1-877-723-3872. If you call, feel free to tell them about the legality (or lack thereof) of leaving messages on answering machines and ignoring do-not-call lists.
....accessable is this system?
Let's say I'm a business that calls people for a living....SLOMINS SHIELD SECURITY SYSTEMS come to mind, I get bothered by them EVERY MONTH.
I'f I'm SLOMIN, how do I get access to the DO NOT CALL LIST? Is it an internet resource that I have to check on before I call someone on my cold-calling list?
Or are the lists that I buy going to be censored with the DNC people taken off of it?
This makes it difficult to see just who the responsibility falls on. Is it the job of SLOMIN to check who they're calling against the DNC list? Or is it the responsibility of the LIST PROVIDOR to take all of the DNC names off of the list?
Now I know my company has bought a mailing list to do snail-mail mailings, and we keep that same list around for about a year, and mail to sections of it at different times of the year. Is there now going to be a mandatory refresh time for these lists? Can I only assume a list is good to use without liability for x amount of time?
For these myriad reasons, I think that prosecution for calling people that are on the DNC list will be next to impossible.
"well, I got the list from XYZ list co. and they shouldn't have put people on this list that are on the DNC list." - Lawyer A, ANYTOWN USA representing Acme Cold Calling Co.
"I just gather information, I can't be responsible for filtering out people that are on the DNC list. This is the responsibility of the people using the list" - Owner of XYZ List Co.
"Let's sue both of them, AND the DNC list providor, one of them is bound to pay up or settle. And this won't cost you anything unless we actually get paid a settlement" -Scummy Lawyer B, of firm Ambulance Chasers Inc.
Ultimately, I think that this will spell the end of telemarketing (because of COURSE the phone company is going to realize that this is a great opportunity to charge $10 when you activate new service to automatically get put on the list) and more SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM.....(trails off into Monty Python jingle)
I believe those calling under the guise of a charity or "not for profit" group will still be exempt.
It says if you want to sign up for the list online, you need to give them an email address. I sure hope the email address isn't going to be distributed along with the list of DNC numbers, else this is going to be a gold mine for email spammers.
Anyone have any info on what is included on the DNC list given to the telemarketers?
I'm just glad to know that the telemarkers are not powerfull enough to overide such legistation(plus they probably ticked off quite a few politictions) and that they will be under more control. The one thing that realy ticks me off though is "Some businesses are exempt from the TSR and can still call you even if you place your number on the registry. These include common carriers (such as long-distance phone companies and airlines), banks and credit unions, and the business of insurance, to the extent that it is regulated by state law..."(from ftc webpage)
and those are the people I am getting spammed by all the time, lousy phone company, I give them money and they harrass me with advertisements of services. I'm not paying to be bothered, just to use the phone. Oh well.
Insert Witty Remark Here ===>____________________________
I sure hope this is as effective as the one that Indiana has had in place for a couple years now, which apparently will go away when the federal list becomes active. I haven't gotten a single telemarketing call since I was put on the Indiana list...
I just wish I could collect a share of those $11,000 fines. I'd retire tomorrow.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
I think they'd be opening a nasty can of worms if the general public had a financial motive to get telemarketers to call them. Scenario: you and a friend get jobs as telemarketers, then purposely call each others houses 50 times a day just to rack up profits from the fines.
Considering we want this system to actually work (creates potential for a similar anti-spam system in the future), it's probably best to keep the system well-designed.
I wouldn't be surprised if they spammed us by email to announce that the no-call list had been set up! Or maybe they'll turn over the day to day operations of the list to AOL or CBS or someone just to make things complete...
What about misdialed numbers? It happens. $11,000 could do serious damage to a mom & pop business.
I hate telemarketing as much as the next person and am glad to see this list. But I am a satellite Dish installer, I work for a co. that subcontracts for about a dozen different companies. Our biggest client is a telemarketing firm, they probably supply about 25% of our jobs. I would hate to lose that much business. The one thing I repeatedly hear from their customers is "I have been thinking of doing this (get Satellite) for a while now". It seems some people need a push or are too lazy to go the story and check things out.
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
Mr. Hanes?
Norris/Palin 2012
Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
Here's an idea:
1) Buy a big block of telephone numbers and direct them all to a single telephone
2) Put them all on the "do not call" list
3) But phone by swimming pool. Sit in pool with cool drink.
4) Wait...
5) Profit!
That way the government is more likely to enforce the law. If it was up to an individual to enforce it, they would have to spend most of the 11,000$ as attorny fees bringing the telemarketer to court. Not to mention the waste of time and effort. The government on the other hand will go in an all out frenzy after these people, especially after Bush's tax cut, and the government has a lot more power behind it than the average Joe.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
Great, now they'll just outsource all those telemarketing jobs outside the US, since the law will only apply to US telemarketing firms. Is there any job that the US is not managing to lose.
Does the victim get a portion of this fine?
A number of states already have their own registries that you can use now. The NY Do Not Call Registry has been up for a while now.
The net will not be what we demand, but what we make it. Build it well.
IIUC, the baby bells keep records on who calls you and would presumably know the point of origin, even if it doesn't display properly on Caller ID. So why not then offer a *007 service or something. If a telemarketer calls you after you are put on the list, after hanging up, you dial *007 and the previous caller is automatically logged into the system as a DNC violator. For that matter, the telco probably could make sure you really were on the DNC and only offer you the service (for a small monthly fee I'm sure) if you were on the DNC list.
One dollar for eternal happiness?
Hmmm...
I think I'd be happier with the dollar.
See how the new scam works? It's just a survey, but if you really sound interested they transfer you to a sales person for your convenience.
but I dont call out of the state...
From www.m-w.com
Main Entry: intrastate
Pronunciation: -'stAt
Function: adjective
Date: 1903
: existing or occurring within a state
It may be a lame tax, but it does apply to you.
I've heard a lot of people complain that this is silly legislation when there are more important things politicians should be spending their time on (and yes that is probably true), but one thing about this that really warms my heart is that this is a bona fide example of elected representatives listening to their constituents wants and acting on it. A lot of things in the U.S. government have sucked lately but here we have a nice example of the system working the way it should.
Just thought I'd point that out.
From hell's heart I fstab at /dev/hdc
I simply say 'I am not interested' and hang up. They do not call back. Believe it or not, you are doing these people a favor, if they really believe that you won't buy anything, they won't bother you again. If you try to be polite or reason with them you are leading them on... These people are just trying to make a buck.
love is just extroverted narcissism
I don't understand why we need a law about this. If somebody calls you and you don't want to talk to them, just *hang up*. Easy. Simple. No legislation. No arguments over who got the 11k for the offense. No tax payer dollars wasted. And really, you aren't offending the sales drone on the other end of the line. I screen my calls with an answering machine. This technology has been around for, I would guess, decades, and cost me about $50. I have a very short message on it, and everyone who we want to talk to knows that they need to leave a message. I incur ZERO annoyance from telemarketers, unless you count the amusement at having them try to have a conversation with my answering machine.
When someone phones trying to sell you something, they usually have a certain amount of time to get through some numbers and make a certain amount of sales. My favourity way of getting my own back is the following .... just say 'hold on a second, there is someone at my door' (or something similiar). Now lay the phone down and continue doing what you are doing. Chances are they will sit on the other end of the phone for a good 5 minutes before hanging up. You have now just wasted their time and they will have less time to call up the next 100 people on their list.
New provision to require caller ID transmission
When the amended TSR goes into effect, telemarketers will be required to transmit their telephone number, and if possible, their name, to consumers' caller ID services. While it is technologically possible to transmit callers' numbers nearly everywhere now, transmission of callers' names may not be available everywhere yet. Transmission of callers' ID information will enable consumers to know who is calling. This provision will take effect one year after the release of the Rule.
Read the rest of the document and then exceptions and you'll see it's pretty crappy. This is the best thing about the plan.
When they call & ask to speak with Mr. Stevens, I explain they want the "other Mr. Stevens". As I hand the phone to my son, I tell him to explain all the fun things he did that day, from the detailed slimey booger he picked & where he wiped it, to his favorite & most proud stories about "pooping in the toilet." He is so proud of the shapes he can make. Usually after a few minutes of running around on the cordless phone explaining how proud he was with the details of his day, he comes back & says" they hung up". Imagine the rudeness of some people.....Go figure. More here
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
"Companies will face an $11,000 fine for each telemarketing call that violates the FTC's new consumer-protection provisions."
now i wonder if theres any way to extend that to inlaws and ex-girlfriends?
Yeah, but in a similar bill passed by the House of Representatives this week, the companies get a $12,000 tax break for each offense.
(Fiction can be fun...)
This space for rent.
YOU FAIL IT
The problem with a lot of telemarketers is that they call at all kinds of odd hours. I mean, if you have friends and family that live carboard cut-out lives and there are never emergencies, you can screen all your calls and be sure to not be woken up. However, I have friends all aroudn the world, and once in a while, they need me at 2 am or so.
The big issue for me has been the recycling of numbers and fax spammers calling them at any time of night. Combine that with telemarketing calls that are at bad hours because some idiot on the wrong coast pulled up the wrong list, and you're starting to get irked.
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. - G.B. Shaw
In our state, we recently had a no-call list instituted state wide. The telemarketing groups, of course, fought it tooth and nail.
What I don't understand, is how they think that they are losing business. If I sign up for the list (which I did), I am stating an unwillingness to deal with a telemarketer already - they haven't lost a potential sale, because there is no way I'd buy from one anyway, and if anything they've saved their call center a bit of time and abuse.
Even more puzzling are those who choose to ignore the state law and call anyway - like they think I maybe forgot I signed up, or that I'll be so happy to hear about the new windows or whatever they're selling that I'll change my mind.
Why do telemarketing groups fight something which keeps them from wasting time calling folks who identify themselves as "not interested"?
You: *Ring*Ring* "Hello?"
..."
Telemarketer: "Good evening sir, would you be interested in a pre-approved credit card?"
Y: "Listen, buddy, I'm on the FTC's Do-not-call list. The offense for calling someone on that list is an $11000 fine."
T: "..... oh
Y: "Now, I might be able to let this one slide for a special fee of $5000, thus saving you and your company some $6000. Interested?"
Well HELLO!! /. and get modded +5 informative.
Thanks!! You made me rich guys, I'll set up a website (after I created the asocciation) called, DUM, Direct Unsolicited Mail asocciation society, Where people who googles for "anti spam list" will be able to swiftly send in 5$. They'll prob write it on
Yours Manic Ken
am not complaining about a penalty. But why so much for EACH offense [of calling a number on the do-not-call list]? Is $11,000 arbitrary, or is there some reasoning behind it? It just seems like a big contrast with the couple hundred dollar fine at the State level.
don't listen to the other posts. 11,000 is calculated by an equation like this.
11,000 x
(expected number of callers that report them)
=
(money made per call on average) x
(number of calls)
that number, i suspect, is something like what they have set up. therefore, if a company ignores the list, they can't make a profit because, even though these numbers that are blacklisted are far and few between, if they ignore the list they will be fined often enough to eat their profits...
otherwise, they'd just ignore the list... a good example of this is car companies who decide based on equations whether to recall cars based on the probability of the crashes and the cost of the settlements (think "Fight Club")
Here in Colorado, we've had a do-not-call list for about a year now, and I find that it has made a significant impact - now the only calls we get are from charities and (in election years) politicians' support-groups. While I still get 2-3 of those a month, it's a far cry from the 3-5 a week we got before then. Any given offender is allowed three strikes before punitive action can be taken.
Just telling solicitors that the number is listed on the Colorado no-call list (in the three cases where it's been needed) has gotten them off the line, and never heard from again.
Internet Explorer was unable to link to the Web page you requested. The page might use standard HTML or CSS.
See, that's where you have fun, with the religious nuts. Have a knife covered with fake blood at the door. Tell them they're just in time to help sacrifice the virgin.
Or open it wearing an outfit like The Gimp in Pulp Fiction. Tell them they're just in time for "Punishment Phase."
Or, if you're bald, put on a white robe and try to convert THEM...very calmly.
Or just point a watergun at them and shoot them every time they try to talk. The madder they get, the more you shoot!
Or answer the door nude. See if they can look you in the eye as you converse about the finer points of being a Jehovah's Witness. Ask them if their religion bans nudity.
See, there's lots you can do to get some enjoyment outta them!
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
evar!!!11 I H8T PHOEN CALS!!!!211 ALLO F THEM!!!!!11 especaly pesky TELLEMARKETARS!!!!111 THEY ARE TEH SUCK!!!111 If yu call me i will hunt u down I SWAER IT!!!111 BY TEH POWAR OF GREY SKULL ILL KICK UR ASS!!1111 and dont think cuz i made heman refference i cant kick ur ass i could totally kick ur ass even while watching heman and chewing beef jerky
They'll never find me!
I think they already did, and gave you those magic eyeball transplants.
Hint: this isn't the FCC.
Don't pay the phone monopoly. Get yourself a mobile phone. 90% of the US population lives in a well covered area. At least there is some reasonable amount of competition in the mobile phone biz. My phone bill is now less than what it used to be with a Qwest/USWorst land-line. Plus I get tons of nifty features that my land-line never had.
I never get phone spam on my mobile. I've been land-line free for four years now.
And paying the phone company $5 to block phone spam is giving in to racketeering. They are the ones selling your phone number to the phone spammers. And, yes, it should be illegal.
the growth in cynicism and rebellion has not been without cause
Someone doing the US a favor by writing a program that would use the web to solve this issue by signing up everyone!
By using the phone company's tools against them- maybe using a PHP program, we could lookup a number in an area code on the online Whitepages, screen scrape the data to fill out the form for the FTC & States.
III.IIVIVIXIIVIVIIIVVIIIIXVIIIXIIIIIIIIVIIIIVVIII
To my knowledge the do DNC list applies to automated dialing services, so as long as your dialing the businesses by hand there should be no problem.
GG, glad you enlightened me, I was so confused to as the question mentioned in the parent post. If I could I would mod your post to +5 insightful, it's already modded +4 at this very moment.
Enlightened
This law is generally a Good Thing but the problem is it will force the most virulent telemarketers undeground. They'll still call, but will make it extraordinarily difficult to find out who they are. They'll call from other countries. They'll rely more on prerecorded announcements. They'll create non-profit front organizations to do their calling for them. They'll learn from the spammers.
No.
The Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991 already provides a private right of action where you can collect $500 per violation with there often being more than one violation per call.
Cave, wreck, and deep diver.
Well at least some regulatory agencies seem to have the public good in mind.
There are several groups that don't have to abide:
Long Distance, Airlines, and Insurance companies that are regulated by states and not Fed.
Organizations you have an "established business relationship" with.
Companies you've made an inquiry to or sent an application to (for three months).
Charities
Political parties.
Between the shake down by the local Police charities, all those contractors with some nebulous relationship to Sears or my mortgage company, the annual cycles of recorded messages by political candidates, and the phone companies checking to see if I want to switch, its unlikely that I will see any reduction in calls.
Sleep is for the Weak
Eliminating spam will most certainly kill a market, and cost a jobs.. However, it is being done because our society will benefit greatly from this.
The same thing will happen to the software industry.
Some people here love to deny the power and importance of the GPL, but those people are also the ones who don't want to part with the idea of selling bits of data for ($100 * n). They also believe that Microsoft's disdain and open campaign of the GPL is merely coincidental, and at the same time they believe that it's a *good* thing that Microsoft and Apple *like* the BSD license.
Don't listen to these people, who Slashdot appears to have more than its share of. Free software is the future (ok, somewhat distant) and once the entire world is involved in its advancement, most of society (minus the pro-monopoly crowd, who would give anything to have Bill's bank account) will benefit greatly.
... does all the work for me. Here it is: :)
Machine: "Hello?"
I just let the people talk until they realize I'm not actually on the phone. One time this telemarketer called - one of the ones that just start talking at full speed and don't let you interrupt - and talked for 3 or 4 minutes to the machine whlie we sat and listened while eating dinner. After she had finished talking she asked, "so all I need at this point is to verify that you are over the age of 18... Hello?.. If you don't want to talk just f***ing hang up!" - click.
I only wish I had saved the message to call them back and tell them how their foul-mouthed representative had raped my virgin ears and that I would never buy anything from them
- "Nobody came out that night, not one was ever seen. But Old Man Stauf is waiting there, crazy sick and mean!"
I've started doing this lately when I've gotten a telemarketing call.. A few of them were really caught off guard by it. Most have just hung up the phone.. no one has said "yes" yet! :)
What effect will this have on academic research in the social sciences that uses telephone surveys? Will these still be legal? How about market research calls such as the call I got yesterday about my radio listening habits? Are these still legal? I do know that the list does not cover political calls or calls from non-profit groups, but what else is not covered?
FreeSpeech.org
Actually, it would be neither blackmail nor extortion, it would be an out of court settlement.
SPF support for most open source mail servers can be found at libspf2.
So you're the guy who keeps calling me. Here is a hint - I only put my business card in the bowl at COMDEX to get the free t-shirt. I am not really interested in your product/services.
That exceptions list is rediculus...
Thost make up most of the calls I get... Politicians "Jews for Jesus", and other stupid stuff!
They aren't special... should be included to.
The only one that sounds legit is "bought/leased service in the past 3 months"... that has purpose.
The contact one is BS too... you know how many are going to sneak stuff on the web in hidden forms, etc. to get you to agree to let them call you?
I can just see the "Make money from home... let telemarkets call you!" campaigns start.,
Why are they making this a fine instead of a small claim (follow the money)?
[1] Someone got paid big time for pushing this through
[2] Someone will get paid for collecting on this
[3]
If they REALLY wanted this to stop, you DO give an incentive to abuse the anti-spam anti-telemarketing laws. Placing the burden on corporations to keep a hawkeye on its operations so that it either does no telemarketing or does so with very stringent procedures is the solution for the people. This solution thats been implemented is for a handful of people making a handful of dollars.
But none of us REALLY want it to stop.
"Last one in is a rotten goblin!" - Kepp
Believe it or not, those business cards are acctually gold for a small business like myself. After a local trade show in NYC I tend to average about 200 cards. I will call all of them and for every 10 people I reach, I make one apointment. So out of 200 cards, that's 20 appointments. Out of 20 (these are standard sales numbers and seem to match my numbers too) 8 will cancel for whatever reason. I will see 12. And 1 out of 4 appointments will buy. Then one of those will cancel. So that's THREE GOOD SALES from 200 cards. At $1000 per sale (per-diem consulting) that's $3000 sitting in the fishbowl of cards. So yeah, YOU are not interested, but out of 200 people three suckers^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hpeople are! :)
are Jehovah Witnesses. Not only do they knock on your door but now they actually call around to try and convert people into their cult. Very weak!
Conversely, many companies are moving or using call centres in Canada.
End result is that if someone has taken the time to be put onto the list, odds are fairly good they're not going to buy anything or wish to talk about how they can spend their money on the phone.
However, it looks like it only affects the number you are dialing. It's a do not call # list, not a do not call NAME list.
I'd be checking the list regularly just from an efficiency standpoint. Those not on the list probably have better odds of buying something than those who are.
Rod Taylor
Just out of curiosity...don't most people have an answering machine that lets them screen their calls? I mean, if my wife actually has trouble in her car and calls me from a payphone, I'd guess she'd leave a message that starts out, "Pick up, it's me."
Why would you not feel safe not answering calls? Just screen them.
I have an uncle who has been screening-only all his calls for 15 years. They simply don't answer the phone. It rings once, the answering machine picks up, and you start rambling some witty shit about them never answering their phone.
Works like a charm, and those who don't know them don't leave messages. Those who do, and with whom they want to talk, get an answer. They shut off the machine during meals and movies. I think it was smart, and saves them enough to buy a pizza once a year for what they'd have spent on Caller ID.
Any sufficiently well-organized Government is indistinguishable from bullshit.
Was your old account modded into -1 territory, so you had to create a new one for your silly flames? I've looked at what your written over the last few days, since you started using Manic Ken, and you're a special kind of guy. I'm sure cmburns69 will have a real hard time recovering from your attack.
If you abuse this system, then you will be giving ammunition to the telemarketing companies, possibly resulting in the list going away. I, for one, will be more than happy to simply add my own number to this list and be done with it. Let everyone see that it works exactly as intended.
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
Eventually we'll push all the telemarketing centers into terrorist nations that won't sign up to the list. The terrorists would then slaughter the telemarketers for their evil capitalist ways, or for just being annoying prats. And if that's not a goal worth working toward, I don't know what is. :)
--- Ban humanity.
Original article is here. In short, this is nothing new, and even in March the signups would have happened on or around July 1.
This sig no verb.
Well I kind of agree with you, I have been an ass today. BUT, the really silly comments here seem to get modded up. I promised myself not to write or moderate any moore, since it's futile, but...well...ehhrr..
All I want is that people at least check up stuff before they moderate..as for stupid comments, myself is guilty, but as I said, when one moderates one should take some responsibility IMHO, hence my rantings.
Yours, not anonymous(well kind of)
Manic Ken
Spam is not unlike that methodology. Opinions and general public sentiments may lie, the numbers don't, people want to be spammed, they want these things and they buy these things. The root of the problem is how to connect a buyer and seller of different degrees together for a transaction without impacting a million others that don't. The methodologies we have today work on the lowest common denominator of human communication. This species is also developing an epidemic problem with attention span that make pop-ups and bright-colored e-mails attractive (Homer-like-sound "mmmmm"). Is it possible, and how, without socially undesirable side-effects such as spam and telemarketing?
However none of these theories discern between a legitimate business spamming you and a clear social pariah offering penis enlargement or investments in Zaire.
And yes, I did not forget that in some conditions, sellers may lay influence to someone who was not a buyer before. Ethically and morally, I won't offer my opinions. Just something to think about.
"Last one in is a rotten goblin!" - Kepp
Seriously, there *is* a price to suggestive selling (as well as other annoying sales practices). If done unobtrusively, and if the salespeople respond appropriately to my complete lack of interest, fine. But if they don't, it annoys me, and that really does become a factor in whether or not I will buy from a particular place.
To be fair, places that annoy me with suggestive selling usually annoy me with their other sales practices...
How would non-profit organizations (animal humane society, volunteer firefighters, etc) who call for donations be affected by this law? I worked for a humane society during its pledge drive, and part of it involved cold calling people out of the phone book - many of whom did not want to be called and gave me the same responses I give to telemarketers who harass me.
Receiving a call for donations may be as equally annoying as a telemarketer to some people, but does it qualify as such?
I get phone calls daily from people trying to get me to sign up for trade journals and people trying to get me to sign up for their credit cards. It's a big time waster. Questions is, would this do-not-call list work for a business? Or would that somehow mean that other legitimate but unsolicited calls would not be allowed? For instance, a semiconductor company rep that is just calling to check up on things.
Over the first portion of the end credits is the auto-dialer, playing a new tape of Homer's voice.
Hello, this is Homer Simpson, a.k.a. Happy Dude. The court has ordered me to call every person in town to apologize for my telemarketing scam. I'm sorry. If you can find it in your heart to forgive me, send one dollar to Sorry Dude, 742 Evergreen Terrace, Springfield. You have the power.
My computer listens to the caller-id information. If a call shows up as out of area, the computer picks up the phone, sleeps a second, then hangs it up. It also notes the time .. if another call comes within one minute, it lets it through.
True, the phone rings once for the telemarketers (sigh), but I don't bother getting up until it rings again. The one-minute trick (from my friend Bob Relyea) is for the occasional "real" out-of-area phonecall: when a person hears the remote phone ring once and then gets disconnected, they usually say "that's weird, I was disconnected" and they redial. Wardialers just move on..
I believe the collective opinion is that people don't want to hear the phone ring unless it's something that requires their time.
I, for one, don't want to hear the thing ring all day and night - period.
My local carrier has something called "private Time."
I'm using it 24/7. It makes sure the phone doesn't ring unless the number calling is on a 5-long "allow list" or the caller knows a two-digit code (entered while ringing to the caller).
That deals with the problem quite nicely. That is, until a list of IDs starts floating around... but they can be changed.
Comdex spam is the worst. I kept opting out of the 'key3media' marketing lists but the e-mails kept coming anyway. Eventually, I went to the key3media site and found a page with the e-mail addresses of everyone on the comdex marketing team. I sent a huge 700K image with nothing but the word 'remove' cc'd to every member of the team. Then the spam stopped ;-)
This has worked with various other businesses spamming me as well. The moral of the story is that one 700K message is worth more than 700 1K messages.
Seriously, I can't think of a single thing that the government has done in the last year to improve quality of life as much as this new reg. The only sad part is that there are going to be those who won't hear about this for years to come. Any millionaires want to sponsor The Last Call to inform Americans about this new option? It'd be an ironic gesture, sure, but it'd also be the noose around the neck for these irritating parasites, may their stomachs roast in Hell forever!!
CommentBot 0.7a running with args "-module irritate,disagree -target random"
If you only cold call businesses that leave a card then I'm ok with it. My beef is companies that use the "shotgun effect". I'm in a weird position at work. I'm IT, so I get all of the IT/Telecomm sales calls forwarded to me. I'm also closest to the front door so I get to deal with every salesman that walks in off the street trying to sell us something (small office, no receptionist). I'm amazed at the things people are trying to sell me. Do companies really buy T-1 connectivity or $50,000 printers from someone that just walked in off the street? Luckily we have a "no business with cold callers" policy so I just take their business card and send it to file 13 once they leave.
I wouldn't say I'm a bad gambler but the last time I went to Vegas I even lost a buck on the soda machine.
And ban the rest.
We should only allow advertising to be done in certain places/manners. For example print ads in publications of general circulation, television commercials, product placement in places that consent (presumably for a fee), billboards, vehicular ads (bumper stickers, airplanes towing signs), banner (but not popup) ads on websites, and... that's all. All other forms of advertising, especially "direct marketing," should be illegal, and punishable by prison terms. Their annoyance outweighs the value they provide society. I yearn for the day that the Direct Marketing Association is a criminal organization, delegated to the likes of NABLA.
Commercial speech can be highly regulated, so as long as the message (buy my product!) can get out, there's no first amendment problem per se.
If I have not asked you about your product, you have no right to tell me about it. If it's good and I want it, I'll find out about it and possibly buy it. Word of mouth is the only truly legitimate form of advertising.
I concede that I'm quite radical on this issue. I despise all marketing. As Bill Hicks said... if you are in marketing, kill yourself. ("ooh, he's going for the anti-marketing dollar, clever!")
Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
So the way it's set up it will create an enormous incentive for the government to make false and misleading accusations against telemarketers in order to get the fine money.
The government is also made up entirely of people, you know.
Section 310.6 in the original rule has a page or so of exception clauses, and they are cross-referencing and unclear, but charitible organizations such as religions and your local FoP chapter will be exempt. If these exceptions are anything like the exceptions in my state's do-not-call list, signing up will just put you in EVERYONE's marketing database.
Every time this comes up, people say there's no way to stop them. I have stopped ALL the junk mail and telemarketing calls to my house. It is NOT hard.
Send your opt-out to the Direct Marketers Association. IT DOES WORK, it just takes about 6 months for the list to get updated. I did it and I get ZERO junk mail now.
When a telemarketer calls, use the following script:
You: What company are you calling in behalf of?
TM: ABC company.
You: Do you personally work for ABC company, or for a telemarketing firm?
If TM says "ABC company" then say "Please put me on your do-not-call list."
If TM says "A telemarketing firm" then say "I would like to be put on the do-not-call list for all of the companies that your company represents."
Almost every time, the latter will happen. This gets you on hundreds to thousands of do-not-call lists in one fell swoop.
Keep records by the phone. It's not hard, just have a small spiral notebook, write down the time and date and company name when you ask to be put on the do not call list.
NOTE: NONE OF THE FOLLOWING WORKS AT ALL, EVER:
Please don't call this number anymore.
No, thank you.
Profanity
Hanging up
Saying anything except for the magic phrase "Please put me on your do-not-call list"
IT WORKS. I do not get telemarketing calls now, and haven't for a couple of years.
If you want to really kick them in the pants, then request a written copy of their do-not-call policy. They are required to send it to you and it's a major pain in the butt for them to do so.
Spam is another matter. Spammers are just lowlife M****rF***ers. They will not stop. For them, I like spambayes.sourceforge.net. It works on many platforms and is easier to maintain than rule-based stuff.
Where's your Mod points when you need them....
I honestly don't believe that this will work simply because telemarketers are getting more and more agressive already and will break other rules in order to conceal their identity.
For the past two months, my wife and I have literally been terrorized by someone soliciting something. They call our home phone hourly from the hours of 5:00pm to 10:00pm, 7 days a week AND hammer her cell phone as many as 20 times a day. They are always in search of my wife (no, she doesn't have any outstanding bills). She bailed and changed her cell number despite the fact I begged her to work with me to get these bastards. Now they only call my home number and hang up whenever I answer. The always refuse to identify themselves until I verify (or my wife verifies) that I'm the person they're looking for (they want my wife's last four), of course, we've continually refused. These ass-clowns only give first names, claiming under the law that's all they're required to do. They refuse to identify their organization. Refuse to verify or decline whether they have prior business with my wife, and finally, they refuse to say where they got our number. I have repeatedly told them to put my number on their do not call list, and they laugh and often get abusive. It's gotten to the point where I sexually harrass them when they call, until they hang up. Of course, as I've said, they won't talk to me now.
I'm filing a complaint with my local police department this week (as instructed by SBC who refuses to help me without police intervention - bastards). I'm sure that this won't be the end of this, or telemarketers. I'm dumping my land line once this is over and blocking all unknown numbers coming in on my cellphone (I think there's a service from my provider). Fuck it, I'm white listing everyone and everything. The only phone number I'll put down on any ap going forward will be my local police department.
Word Axis
The banner ad I received at the top of the comments page was for telemarketing services and lists. I find this highly amusing.
Is it weird in here, or is it just me?
Companies will face an $11,000 fine for each telemarketing call that violates the FTC's new consumer-protection provisions.
They'll only face it if the recipients of the calls can identify them. Since nearly all telemarketers hide from Caller ID, and no violator will willingly give you identifying information so you can report them, the law is completely unhelpful.
Let me know when the courts pass a law requiring the phone companies to eliminate Caller ID hiding entirely from their networks. 100% accountability for actions. Then we'll be getting somewhere.
Moderator hint: a comment is neither "Flamebait" nor "Troll" if it is true.
Y: "Now, I might be able to let this one slide for a special fee of $5000, thus saving you and your company some $6000. Interested?"
T: "Umm, that was expensive"
Y: "Well, if you don't have the money right now you can pay it in ten _easy_ installments of only $500 at a miniscule interest rate of 1,25% per month plus fees"
T: "I'll have to take it up with the manager"
Y: "Deal now and I'll give you a special price worth $100, deducted from your charge. Special offer, just for you my friend!"
T: "Oh, really. That's a deal then"
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
You're the one who woke me up at 10 am on a Saturday when I had a hangover and had been asleep for all of 3 hours, huh? Well, for my trouble of getting out of bed and answering an unsolicited and unwanted trespasser, you're going to entertain me. And the way you're going to do that is you're going to make very strange reactions, hopefully Fear and Loathing, or possibly just crying and screaming, when I do extremely strange and frightening things to you.
Do we understand each other? Because if not, you can just not knock on my door. You're lucky I'm not one of the crazy bastards from Colorado who just shoot on sight. I'm trying to be a nice guy and not shoot you, but sometimes you have to go and make it difficult.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Here's the thing. Let's say I sign up and someone still keeps calling me. If they don't show who they are on CallerID, and if I don't get their name by actually wasting my time and talking to them (which is what I'm trying to avoid in the first place), how can I possibly turn them in to get fined? I suppose I could have the phone company put a trace on my line, but that's kind of a pain, and requires filing a police report first. How is this going to be enforced? What about when directTV has their recorded message call me? What can I do about that?
Well, your best option is to RTFM , but the short answer is that DoNotCall only applies to "consumers", aka residential phones. B2B calls should be open game.
www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/dncalrt.htm
18. Can businesses sign up for the "do not call" registry?
No. The "do not call" provisions of the amended TSR do not apply to business-to-business calls. As a result, businesses have no reason to register their telephone numbers.
Unfortunately, the national do-not-call list will be run by AT&T, who placed the lowest bid for the FTC project. AT&T has also been #1 on the FCC's list of telemarketing complaints for the past three years. Maybe the FTC and FCC should get together and talk sometime..
AT&T Will Run Do-Not-Call List: Fox Again Wins Henhouse Contract
cpeterso
Imagine. everybody's current phone number and address. Shouldn't be hard to find anyone now.
Punitive damages should go to the state -- they are intended to prevent the company from doing something again, and so there's no reason the person injured deserves them. Actual damages should of course still go to the person who suffered the damages, but you shouldn't be able to get rich off personal injury lawsuits, for exactly the reasons mentioned in this thread.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Currently, you need to check the laws of the state your calling in. Some allow calling to set up appointments, some don't. Call your local AG's office and find out if you need to purchase the list or not. Pleading ingnorance is no excuse when they come after you.
There is legislation in the UK similar to this that's been in force for a few years now, and it's VERY effective.
It's also added a lot of momentum to voluntary industry codes of practice for other media as well, most of which are run by the The Direct Marketing Association.
A couple of years ago, I subscribed to the DMA's (free) Fax Preference Service in an attempt to cut down on the junk faxes I was getting at home (about 3-5 a day). After about a month, my listing kicked in and I got ONE junk fax about a week later, followed by none at all until we moved house last year. I did the same for our fax at work (getting about 15-20 a day) and it had the same effect. I was pretty surpised, and it's rised my estimation of the marketing industry quite a lot.
With a bit of luck the same will happen in the States - good luck!
"And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"
this law appears to be so watered down that telemarketers will probably find a way to work around it in almost every case.
There are two problems with this statement. One: it's too long, and it'll reduce the number of customers the kid can serve. The second is it's not credible - everybody knows that the fries are pretty much the same today as they are every day, so the server will sound sillier than they do already.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Yeah, that makes sense. I suppose you're just doing it to get with the one JW chick in the country who actually puts out, huh, AC?
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
I purchased a Phonezap and no more telemarketer ringing through. Peace and quiet finally! http://www.phonezap.com
Don't order it via the web though, call them and and order it. Their web ordering system sucks big time! It works just as it promised. Need caller ID to work well though.
We would like to give you a free edition of the newspaper
no thanks, get a free one online please remove me from your list
We would like to replace your auto glass on your windshild
No thanks, I down own a car. Please remove me from your list.
We would like to replace your existing windows with vinyl ones
No thanks I prefer glass. Please remove me from your list.
But vinyl windows make your home look pretty
I don't own a home. Please remove me from your list.
We notice that you recently refinanced your home
I don't own home. Please remove me from your list
We are accepting donations for this organization household items
This is isn't a house, it's a tiki hut. Please remove me from your list.
We would like to save you on auto insurance
Don't own a car. Please remove me from your list
We are accepting donations for this worthy cause
I don't donate over the phone [isolated cases they get my moolah already] Please remove me from your list
We want to offer you a free home security system
Don't own a home, please remove me from the list
But we can install it in your apartment
no you can't, I won't let you please remove me from your list
But there have been alot of break ins in your area, you need one
Yes, and those breakins those people who purchaced your system
But why would anyone turn down our free home security system
Because some people actually make their purchacing choices based on product research rather then impulse buying. Accepting your free product locks the person into a service contract and no one with one gram of sence would do that without doing any form of research. Additional, i'm not going to give license to some guy who I don't know to drill holes in my walls without there being a legit contract for the install. If I choose your service, and you guys fuck up, I want you to pay to have it fixed. You are not qualified to answer any logical question because the company you work for doesn't even give you paperwork or a model number of what you are selling. Your sales staff who will knock on my door are not welcome, I don't want to speak to them. Please remove me from your list, I have not accepted your free product for 7 years. Please give up and find someone else to bug
I would THINK after repeated failures they would take the hint and actually remove me from the list. I'm not profitable to telemarketers, I don't buy crap sold to me over the phone.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
I think you can opt out over the phone. I wonder if you could put everyone in an area code on the do not call list?
"Hey Boss, I'm done!"
"What do you mean you are done? That is impossible, I gave you a whole area code"
"Well, the computer says everyone opted out!"
Please do not try this at home! I honestly hope they have a way to prevent this from happening, but I could not really explain why!
At least in California, check out http://www.nocall.ag.ca.gov/
Where do you want to be, What are you doing to get there.
that offered a service to the telemarketers. our switches would block any outgoing calls that were made that were on the do-not-call list. we obtained the lists from the states that instituted DNC lists.
Call 303-499-7111 for a standard good time?
If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen, but your flame is nothing compared to other flames I've seen (like before I used the SIG file and put my SIG in the actual post.. )
fwooosh!
Anyway, its not so much that stupid posts get modded up, but the obvious thoughts and ideas get modded up (because everyone says "Of course, the thought makes sense, I should mod it up!").
But people don't usually try and post the obvious, they just post what they think right off the top of their heads.. And with the moderation system (and community), posting earlier usually leads to higher post ratings.
Perhaps what is needed is for moderation power to be given out with less frequency. It would force moderators to be more choosey..
Anyway, nuff said..
Online Starcraft RPG? At
Dietary fiber is like asynchronous IO-- Non-blocking!
It WILL annoy a lot of people, but that doesn't change the fact that aggressive, invasive selling works better. I've seen the numbers, and seen up close how adjusting sales procedures like this improve sales rates. Yes, you get people who see straight through it, and know what they want, and make up their own mind, but most people don't really know what they want and are trivially easily led to buy more than they planned by a well trained aggressive salesperson.