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Linus Moves To OSDL, Will Work On Kernel Full-Time
worldwideweber writes "With the announcement of the release of the 2.5.72 version of the Linux kernel came the news that Linus Torvalds will be leaving Transmeta for OSDL to work on the linux kernel full-time. The email calls this a leave of absence for about one year." Update: 06/17 17:19 GMT by T : As many readers have pointed out, the length of Linus' leave is not actually specified in this email.
ep!
ooo yeah!
piss
Will this mean we get kernel releases daily? Like in the old times? Will we have 3.0.0 this xmas? I'm soo exited!!!!
Cool. Linus is a top bloke.
FIST PROST!
From: Linus Torvalds
/how/ freely Transmeta has let me do Linux work. My email address will
;) press-release about this tomorrow morning, but I just
To: Kernel Mailing List
Subject: Linux v2.5.72 and a move to OSDL
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:35:09 -0700 (PDT)
Ok, I waited too long for 2.5.71, so here's a more timely 2.5.72
release.
It's extra timely largely because the hash list poisoning found some
problems in the RPC code, making NFS break. Trond found and fixed the
breakage, so 2.5.72 should work fine in an NFS environment too. Let's
see if the list poisoning shows any other dodgy list users. Knock wood.
Also, Arnaldo has cleaned up a lot of the networking code to use the
generic hash lists, instead of the old ad-hoc net-specific list walking
code. That code has been tested pretty well, but please holler if you
see something.
Changelog for other details appended.
The other big news - well, for me personally, anyway - is that I've
decided to take a leave-of-absense after 6+ years at Transmeta to
actually work full-time on the kernel.
Transmeta has always been very good at letting me spend even an
inordinate amount of time on Linux, but as a result I've been feeling a
little guilty at just how little "real work" I got done lately. To fix
that, I'll instead be working at OSDL, finally actually doing Linux as
my main job.
[ I do not expect a huge amount of change as a result, testament to just
change to "torvalds@osdl.org" effective July 1st, but everybody is
trying to make the transfer as smooth as possible, so we'll make sure
that there will be sufficient address overlap etc to not cause any
problems ]
OSDL and Transmeta will have a joint official (read: "boring". You
should have seen the bio - that didn't make it - that I suggested for
myself for it
wanted to say thanks to Transmeta. It has been a special place to work
for, and hello to OSDL that I hope will be the same.
Snif. I'm actually all teary-eyed.
Linus
- tom -
linux working full time on the kernel? Well everyone, expect more crashes in linux.
Has he got his clearance certificate from SCO?
Have the Chinese agreed to 'release' him from Transmeta?
(this last one hurts a bit)...
while extolling the Linux kernel, we used to say:
Hey, MS spends $5bn in R&D for a lousy OS. A single chappie named Linus maintains the entire Linux kernel in his spare time! Can't say that any more...
Anyways, all the best!
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
No, I didn't pay a bean.
And this is my first ever first post! How many times have I put 'fp' before and then been beaten by someone. Oooooo yeah this has just made my day / year / life
Trying not to be overly cynical here is a bit difficult. When Transmeta needed publicity they hired Linus which gave them un-rivaled, and often uncritical, coverage in the US which certainly will have helped in fund-raising. The initial visions and hype have not lived up to their expectations, and especially in the low power end of the market where ARM processors continue to dominate.
Now that Transmeta are trying to move into a more corporate sphere there is less demand for a posterboy like Linus.
Its great that Linus is dedicated to the Linux kernel full time, but how much of this is leaving through dedication (for a year) and how much is a result of disappointment at Transmeta not living up to its hype.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Ok, I waited too long for 2.5.71, so here's a more timely 2.5.72 release.
It's extra timely largely because the hash list poisoning found some problems in the RPC code, making NFS break. Trond found and fixed the breakage, so 2.5.72 should work fine in an NFS environment too. Let's see if the list poisoning shows any other dodgy list users. Knock wood.
Also, Arnaldo has cleaned up a lot of the networking code to use the generic hash lists, instead of the old ad-hoc net-specific list walking code. That code has been tested pretty well, but please holler if you see something. Changelog for other details appended.
The other big news - well, for me personally, anyway - is that I've decided to take a leave-of-absense after 6+ years at Transmeta to actually work full-time on the kernel.
Transmeta has always been very good at letting me spend even an inordinate amount of time on Linux, but as a result I've been feeling a little guilty at just how little "real work" I got done lately. To fix that, I'll instead be working at OSDL, finally actually doing Linux as my main job.
[ I do not expect a huge amount of change as a result, testament to just /how/ freely Transmeta has let me do Linux work. My email address will
change to "torvalds@osdl.org" effective July 1st, but everybody is
trying to make the transfer as smooth as possible, so we'll make sure
that there will be sufficient address overlap etc to not cause any
problems ]
OSDL and Transmeta will have a joint official (read: "boring", like Slashdot. You should have seen the bio - that didn't make it - that I suggested for myself for it ;) press-release about this tomorrow
morning, but I just wanted to say thanks to Transmeta. It has been a
special place to work for, and hello to OSDL that I hope will be the
same.
Snif. I'm actually all teary-eyed.
Linus
...as he is just about to hand over maintenance of 2.5/2.6 to Andrew Morton. So maybe he actually hopes to do some hacking again, instead of just integrating other peoples' work. Cool!
OSDN, The parent of Slashdot, has filed a lawsuit against Linus today for cut-and-pasting the first three letters of OSDN.
CmdrTaco was quoted and saying "Linus and this Shift-Insert stuff is getting WAY out of control".
Linus was unavailable to paste in a reply.
is a fucking microsoft conspiracy if i ever saw one.
This has been a Microsoft Conspiracy Update.
1. Work on open source projects .com startup; startup tanks
2. No profit
3. Get jealous; go to
4. No profit
5. Return to open source projects
6. No profit
i guess that Linus was too expensive for Transmeta. I don't doubt, that he's worth all the money he earns, but Transeta employs him mostly for PR reasons (that's why they left him so much freedom). But you have to have some sales to support PR. I already wondered for some time, if it pays off for Transmeta financially.
But Linus is so popular, i don't think he will ever encounter serious employment problems.
For my part, i thank Transmeta for employing Linus. As i don't own any shares, i had the profit from Linus' work without any cost.
Bye, Martin
His itinerary includes a brief stop-over in Utah, during which time he will hunt down Darl McBride and maul his body beyond recognition. His court defense will be temporary sanity and David Boies will merrily defend him to acquittal.
Can I bum a sig? I left mine at the office.
There's a leak in the Linus kernel, someone please post a patch.
You're just jealous you didn't get the first post biotch!!
The first post was MINE oooooo yeah
Linus Torvalds has very recently stated that spam filtering -- right in the kernel -- is now a slated feature for Linux 2.6.
My journal has hot
Rome taught me patience and assiduous application to detail. Virtues which temper the boldness of great, general views.
Now, let's not all sell our Transmetta stock at the same time...
Kudos to Transmeta for hiring Linus in the first place ( even if they did transport him to the USA in reach of overlitigious bastards such as The SCO Group ) and supporting his work on Linux for so many years.
Is this related to Transmeta wanting to distance themselves from Linux until the SCO bull$hit is resolved? Hopefully it will be quick, but I can't help but wonder what kind of ace SCO is holding in reserve. Even if they don't really have an ace, businesses seem to be preparing themselves for the possibility that SCO may win a partial victory.
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
A year's leave also just happens to give him time where he could be an expert witness or consultant in certain legal matters.
Excuse my ignorance but what is List Poisoning?
I feel like I should know this but I don't.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Now THAT was funny!
There's something about these two changes I find amusing. I admit I have no idea what they mean, which is probably why:
Daniel Ritz:
o [PCMCIA] fix yenta unload oops
David S. Miller:
o [TCP]: Use proper time_*() comparisons on jiffies
Old dominion soccer league (first google hit for odsl)
Linus has joined the shapeshifters!
(Or do i watch too much star trek? )
...is someone working on the GUI full time and in a few years we might have something worth dual booting.
Yeah, yeah, blah, blah. This is a byline, this is not news.
In other news; Someone called Linus changed jobs, a cat died, and more pigeon feathers were found in the park.
OSDL is dedicated to enabling Linux and Linux-based applications for data center and carrier-class deployment. We provide the crucial hardware for testing and development at this level, giving open source developers around the world the resources needed to bring Linux further into telecommunications and the enterprise. We are an independently governed, non-profit organization supported by 21 industry leaders.
Sounds cool
wtf is a leave of absence???
Basically he didnt quit outright, I guess he wants to keep his options open. Good thinking in this job market Linus. I mean, who would want to hire the originator of the Linux kernel?
1. Remove the elitist scum on XFree
2. Redesign the windowing, redesign the starburst of config files, and file dirs and generally clean up the shitty structure. Its like file debri.
3. Speed up development its too slow. Maybe we need more branches on the source tree to get more "INNOVATION"
4. Where is the experience ? Usability? Maintainability? Please, head up ass egotistical users can just stay in the back room wanking over theyre shell. They are the problem that linux is NOT on the desktop.
That letter is awesome. It's great to have a real, honest, genuine human-being to rally behind.
This is the greatest things about open-source: the people. People who are willing to donate so much time and effort to the benefit of everyone on earth as opposed to people who want to screw over the world so they can make themselves rich.
We're much better off than those cheering on phony, cut-throat business men who run and jump around a stage like monkies to the tune of Gloria Estefan.
Why bother.
First reaction to a moron who can't remember FOUR letters when making a lame google reference!
OSDL!!!! not ODSL!!!!!!
When I worked on the kernel, my conscience was bruised. I must purge the poison from my body. I will not be able to work at Transmeta ... for about three months.
I submitted this a few hours ago (always a bridesmaid, *snif*), along with two links not in the story above. One was to the NY Times story about it. The other was to this story which just came out at Wired . . .a brief interview with Linus about his efforts to stand apart from political issues surrounding Open Source, which refers to the
discussion here on Slashdot
about his opinions on incorporating DRM into the Linux kernel (among other things).
mind you, he might be using an transmeta XP laptop
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
From the nytimes article, about OSDL:
The organization was created with an investment of $20 million from I.B.M., Hewlett-Packard, Intel, Computer Associates, NEC and Fujitsu.
What no SCO?
I'll do it for cheesy poofs.
OK, big mistake to make. (it is called dislectic or something like that, not moron)
The real funny part is that seaching for odsl gives osdl.org as 3th result. A lot of linkers have made this error!
Finally the SCO suit is showing some effect! Linux's leader is abdicating and fleeing the scene. Exactly as the nazis left Germany and took up hiding in South America.
I guess that this means we can all get back to conducting serious business based on SCO Unix - the bread and butter of many a development company.
(In 20 years time we'll probably see Torvalds daughter marrying the Swedish king!)
One year later I had to have an ovary and fallopian tube removed because of a cyst "the size of a baby's head," according to the doctor. It had formed around "pieces of hair, like eyebrows, and skin." A year after that I became pregnant again. Because of the scar tissue left behind by the abortion and subsequent cyst, my baby was trapped in my one remaining fallopian tube. I had married the boyfriend by this time, but he still didn't want the baby. Without knowing this pregnancy was 'ectopic' I decided to carry to term, despite my husband's objections. The doctor didn't diagnose the problem until 10 weeks into the pregnancy, when I was in the emergency room puking my guts out. The baby had to be removed to save my life.
I am now completely sterile.
A troll recently advised me to get a real job - Like Linus.
While we are posting stories about people changing jobs...
Just last week I started a new job after a long and tedious four and a half year tenure at my former job. In this new job I'll finally get to work on things other than fighting fires. I'm very excited. Just thought everyone would like to know.
--
"What do you want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? Cause I'm married."
He should just sue SCO and live off the money... relaxing in a fabulous villa, doing a bit of kernel coding every now and then ;-)
...posted on Slashdot, you ARE the alpha geek.
That is all.
-- Liberalism is a mental disorder.
I see in the email where he calls it a leave of absence. I don't see any indication of it being limited to one year.
Linux Desktop will never be like Windows Desktop because nobody is interested in removing features like virtual desktops, multiple windowmanagers, etc. from XFree86.
So, stick on your pathetic technology that you've learned to click so good and shut the fsck up.
I bet Linus' self-deprecating sense of humor shines in every single line.
Still, short of emailing him myself (yeah, right), I have no idea how to get hold of that bio, and I'm too lazy to think one up here and post it (in humor).
Anyone else seen it? C'mon, you know you want to
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
You do realize that www.snopes.com is just one big put-on, right?
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Sure.exe -MyLiNuX $runs /fine=but.dont%expect% #good usability /help me
I have virtual desktops on my windows rig. I have diff window managers. Narrow minds aplenty, oh wait its slashdot!
Stick to licking the cum from youre arse. Well, you loose.
Transmeta has always been very good at letting me spend even an inordinate amount of time on Linux, but as a result I've been feeling a little guilty at just how little "real work" I got done lately.
Just a little guilty? Boy, what a crappy employee. Really. It's one thing to work on projects in your spare time but to leech off your employer to do so is not right. I'm sure this will encourage other employers to support their employees' work on open source projects. I guess Transmeta didn't want the bad press associated with firing Torvalds...let's see if he goes back in a year. Will Transmeta even notice he's gone (except for part where they save money on his salary)?
You can also read Linus' post here.
This is hardly 'distancing' themselves from linux.
Okay... I'll do the stupid things first, then you shy people follow.
[Zappa]
I was reading wired and they were talking about how after people leave their jobs after being interviewed in Wired. Barry Diller left Vivendi right after he was interviewed, and some other that I can remember because I left the issue at home. This was in the letters to the editor section for anyone that has a copy. One of the editors guessed that since Linus was getting interviewed in this months article, he was going to leave. He said something to the point of " anyone looking for a decent Unix programmer" in reference to Linus. Somebody should have the damn article.
So, is he going to open source the 'Secret Recipe'
Linux Creator Linus Torvalds Joins OSDL
First OSDL Fellow Will Devote Himself Exclusively to Linux Development
BEAVERTON, OR, and SANTA CLARA, CA, June 17, 2003 â" OSDL, a non-profit, global consortium of leading technology companies dedicated to accelerating the adoption of Linux, and Transmeta Corporation (Nasdaq: TMTA), the leader in efficient computing, today announced that Linus Torvalds, the creator of Linux, will join OSDL as the first OSDL Fellow.
As an OSDL fellow, Linus will work exclusively on leading the development of Linux, the open source software that he created in 1991 as a university student in Finland. Torvalds will dedicate himself now full-time to guiding a distributed team of thousands of Linux developers around the world. At OSDL, he will have hands-on access to its state-of-the-art computing resources and test facility. He will also help set priorities and direction for the Lab's different industry initiatives.
"It feels a bit strange to finally officially work on what I've been doing for the last twelve years, but with the upcoming 2.6.x release it makes sense to be able to concentrate fully on Linux," Torvalds said. "OSDL is the perfect setting for vendor-independent and neutral Linux development."
Here's the press release alluded to in Linus' email. Still no mention of his leave being limited to one year.
Linux Creator Linus Torvalds Joins OSDL
First OSDL Fellow Will Devote Himself Exclusively to Linux Development
BEAVERTON, OR, and SANTA CLARA, CA, June 17, 2003 â" OSDL, a non-profit, global consortium of leading technology companies dedicated to accelerating the adoption of Linux, and Transmeta Corporation (Nasdaq: TMTA), the leader in efficient computing, today announced that Linus Torvalds, the creator of Linux, will join OSDL as the first OSDL Fellow.
As an OSDL fellow, Linus will work exclusively on leading the development of Linux, the open source software that he created in 1991 as a university student in Finland. Torvalds will dedicate himself now full-time to guiding a distributed team of thousands of Linux developers around the world. At OSDL, he will have hands-on access to its state-of-the-art computing resources and test facility. He will also help set priorities and direction for the Lab's different industry initiatives.
"It feels a bit strange to finally officially work on what I've been doing for the last twelve years, but with the upcoming 2.6.x release it makes sense to be able to concentrate fully on Linux," Torvalds said. "OSDL is the perfect setting for vendor-independent and neutral Linux development."
Founded in 2000, OSDL has data centers in Portland, Oregon and Yokohama, Japan used by Linux developers around the world. With investment backing from Computer Associates, Fujitsu, Hitachi, HP, IBM, Intel, NEC and others, the lab sponsors key industry projects, including industry initiatives to enhance Linux for use in corporate data centers (Data Center Linux) and in telecommunications networks (Carrier Grade Linux). OSDL is increasingly being recognized as the center-of-gravity for the Linux industry: an important and independent central body that invests in the growth and innovation of Linux for the benefit of customers.
"OSDL is a leading Linux-industry advocate with the single-minded focus of accelerating its use throughout the enterprise," said Stuart Cohen, OSDL CEO. "Linus' decision to join us is a confirmation of the importance of our mission. OSDL is the only organization where Linux developers, customers and vendors can all participate as equals. The addition of Linus' perspective and guidance to the Lab will enhance our value to all three of these groups."
Linux is the fastest-growing operating system in the world. Revenue for Linux-based servers grew 62% in 2002, while overall sales of servers dropped 8%, according to Gartner Dataquest, a market research company. By 2007, Gartner predicts that Linux may grab 15% of the worldwide market.
"Linus Torvalds adds tremendous credibility to OSDL's efforts to drive the evolution of Linux forward into enterprise computing and carrier environments," said George Weiss, vice president and research director for the research firm Gartner. "The computing market is still questioning how far and how fast Linux can go as an enterprise-ready platform. With Linus at OSDL, many will be looking for leadership from the lab for answers to those questions."
Torvalds will join OSDL on leave from Transmeta Corporation, where he is currently a Transmeta Fellow. Transmeta is an OSDL member and worked with OSDL on the transition. "Linus has made substantial technological contributions as a member of our development team here at Transmeta," said Matthew R. Perry, president and CEO, Transmeta Corporation. "Transmeta appreciates and fully supports Linus' strong interest in devoting his attention and energy to certain emerging industry-wide Open Source initiatives at OSDL."
About OSDL
Founded in 2000, OSDL is dedicated to accelerating the growth and adoption of Linux in the enterprise. Supported by a global consortium of IT industry leaders, OSDL provides state-of the-art computi
[..]Apache, Mozilla, KDE...are moving at a break neck pace.
Let me guess, you weren't here before 1.0?
Yeah, I would also insist that something is cool when I spend wayyy to much money for it.
Newswire:
Cmdr Taco is taking an extended four-year leave of absence from Slashdot and will be going to the University of Michigan to learn Journalism. He'll also be taking courses in reality, spelling, housekeeping, grammar, shopping, ethics, marital skills and parenting, just in case he ever grows up, in which case he'll need minimal competency in all of these areas of human interaction.
Right,. this is Slashdot. Not Losers-try-to-justify-why-they-use-crap-by-any-mea ns-necessary-or-like-they're-getting-paid-for-it. Maybe you should go to M$ and offer your PR arsehole (bigmouth) to them for free (like you do here).
Reminds me of the near near miss paradox or the short dwarf pleonasm.
Parent article isn't interesting, insightsfull, informative or even remotely true.
Linus has never said he'd hand over anything to Andrew Morton. And for the hacking part, he's been doing lots of actual code hacking on several parts of the kernel lately (as always). Parent isn't "Interesting" or anything like that. It's just "wrong".
now i don't have to feel guilty about buying a pentium-m notebook as opposed to waiting for transmeta to finally deliver the astro!
Transmeta makes hardware, not software. There's not a single chance for SCO to sue them.
Half Time
Since I'm ignorant enough not to know what OSDL stands for, and lazy enough that I don't feel like searching for it, I'm just going to make something up. Here are my top 5 so far:
1. Open Source Developer Land
2. Oprah's Singular Dance Legends
3. Oops, Stallman Dissed Linus
4. O'Reilly Still Dignifies Linux
5. Official Simpsons Disco Library
(I suspect I'm on to something with #2...)
And the number of Linux purposed Transmeta systems out there ? Or Server based systems ? Transmeta is aiming at the notebook market where Linux is pretty much unheard of, then at the lower-scale where again the majority of systems are not Linux.
I have no doubt the guy is brilliant, but isn't it a bit strange given the markets Transmeta aimed at that they wanted lots of Linux development.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
How many of us can honestly say that we're doing what we love to do? And not just "working at an appropriately geek/tech job" either. I mean, this guy started a project as a hobby, people found value in it, and now he gets a salary to maintain it as he sees fit. When you look at history, even people like Michaelangelo who got to do what they liked doing, and got paid to do it, still had to work on someone else's project. "Michaelangelo, paint this ceiling, something in a biblical motif." Even top athletes get told who to play and when. Not many people have, or have ever had, as sweet a deal as Linus. I have several projects, as well as other non-geeky hobbies, that I scarcely have time for. I wish I could get paid to work on them. Heck, I'd settle for simply having more time for them without pay.
Constitutionally Correct
Yes, OSDL did have Caldera/SCO money. Caldera joined OSDL early on, and later let their membership expire sometime after the name change to SCO. So SCO has funded Linux kernel development projects through OSDL. Larry
I snorted gunk all over my monitor.
I hope they don't make Linus & Family move to Beaverton...
Unless I'm missing something, it seems like an obvious thing to do (and something that's done as standard in many other linked list implementations).
The conspiracy side of me thinks that this might be a preemptive move to try to keep Transmeta off the radar of SCO lawyers.
... but hey, you never know.
This is _pure_ paranoid speculation on my part
RFC2119
Nice to get slammed with "think before you post" by someone too dense to get the joke!
this article...
Bleh!
Does this mean he's moving to Portland, Oregon?
According to NY times:
/. programmer is a promonent progammer!
Prominent Programmer Will Leave TransmetaProminent?
prominent ?? PROMINENT???
more like Legendary! . For Christ's sake!
Prominent my foot! Hell, every other
If that's not an understatement I dont' know what is!
This Cringely quote (from this article) always struck me as strange:
Now I know why. In this post Linus said: Now I know why. Linus was working at transmeta because he was a god of the i386, not the god of Linux.All data is speech. All speech is Free.
Now that Transmeta are trying to move into a more corporate sphere
by this you really mean what i put in the subject. duh. Linus made huge contributions to Transmeta over the years; ask anyone who works there. No surprise that he wants to work on the kernel for real now.
I didn't read the OSDN charter, but could the move allow IBM, HP, etc. to provide legal support in case SCO sues Linus directly? They are OSDN members. Transmetas pockets are certainly not deep enough and Linus isn't filthy rich. Perhaps the offer was made now because SCO has not yet filed such a suit but now seems intent on it. I don't know, would switching jobs after the suit would have legal ramifications?
Somehow I don't think this is just any sabbatical.
Is one year off enough time for Linus to audit the kernel and replace any contentious code?
(I'm thinking that little $3 billion lawsuit that SCO has hanging over IBM...)
AlphaSys fantasizes about Linux stripping off the size 14 Mr Mackey underwear from AlphaSys inadequate boney sexless body. He see Linus peeling off those Mackey undergarments and making a comment; "Yah, I don't see your pee pee, is that a pubic hair or your weenie?"
Then AlphaSys takes 40 Viagra to make the Mister Tinkie stand out for Linus. Lovingly, Linus starts to.....scraaaaaaaaaaaaaaacth.
Hey, AlphaSys, Linus isn't a fucking fag like you.
Linus, don't power out 2.6 too quick. But, congratulations on making Linux your full time job. A long overdue proof of Linux's popularity.
....posted about DRM in CDs/DVDs than about Linus coming back to Linux.
I went to battle MC Escher but drew a blank
I plug in and out a printer, a hard drive, a camera, and a CD READ/WRITE on the front USB Port on my ME running eMachine without turning off or rebooting anything.
I could plug the CD into the back parallel port and one USB device into the back USB Port and only hot swap when I wanted to plug in the camera, but I'll probably just buy a USB Hub and not have to manually plug/unplug... but thats next month.
It's nice to see that Linus is getting a bit more riled up about SCO now that SCO has started taking personal potshots at him. In a recent Cnet article:
-----
PGP Key ID 0xCB8FF658
As for being on the desktop, well, it will. It's only a matter of time.
No. I use Linux ~70% of the time for development. With a couple of XTerms and vi it cannot be beaten for writing C code. I have used it since Slackware 2.0.3x days. But I am absolutely certain of one thing; Linux is not going to make it on the desktop. At least not with GNOME or KDE. Those desktops are very shallow. There is ZERO integration. MS has COM, OLE, a clipboard that actually works, etc. Everything works together *enough* to use and built *integrated* desktop applications. Linux is not going to the desktop mainstream. Deal with it.
Go ahead and mod me down now.
E
Marxist evolution is just N generations away!
That what i said, I am not a moron. (And not native english)