Recall of Segway Announced by CPSC

That explains the Shrub... by gokubi · 2003-09-26 06:27 · Score: 5, Funny

some Segway HTs may not deliver enough power, allowing the rider to fall. This can happen if the rider speeds up abruptly, encounters an obstacle, or continues to ride after receiving a low-battery alert.

or if the rider is fresh from a tennis match with Poppy, rushing to an appointment to bomb some unsuspecting nation back to the stone age.

--
I'm much funnier now that I'm a subscriber.

Re:That explains the Shrub... by Gibble · 2003-09-26 06:30 · Score: 4, Funny

But this is a guy who nearly died from a pretzel...so you can hardly blame the segway if he fell.

--
Gibble: Descriptive of an emotional state in which one's mind is scrabbling for some purchase on reality
Re:That explains the Shrub... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-26 06:39 · Score: 5, Funny

"The machine's creator, Dean Kamen, wants to see US Special Forces troops eventually ride Segways into battle."

That would only toughen their image, I'm sure.
Re:That explains the Shrub... by El · 2003-09-26 06:42 · Score: 4, Funny

I think the theory is that terrorists will be too convulsed with laughter to bother with shooting at them...

--
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Re:That explains the Shrub... by ceije · 2003-09-26 06:44 · Score: 1

Let this surprise dismount be known forever more as... the "Bush-plant".
Re:That explains the Shrub... by caferace · 2003-09-26 07:07 · Score: 2, Funny

Is that anything like transexual paratroopers?
Re:That explains the Shrub... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-26 07:07 · Score: 3, Interesting

remember kids that the majority of americans & the congress & senate voted to go after iraq...also bush isn't the 1st or only one who said iraq had wmd and saddam was a threat...remember these?

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998.

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18,1998.

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

more quotes at http://www.jrwhipple.com/war/wmd.html#Hypocrats
Re:That explains the Shrub... by MasterSLATE · 2003-09-26 07:21 · Score: 1

Where did people actually vote for a war? Also, 1 country (or 2 if you wanna count England) out of god knows how many wanted to do this war... Number of those that opposed > those that didn't.

--

[sig]www.masterslate.org[/sig]
Re:That explains the Shrub... by onyxruby · 2003-09-26 07:22 · Score: 1, Redundant

So the idea is that they can't shoot very well at our troops while their doubled over with laughter? I like it.
Re:That explains the Shrub... by Microlith · 2003-09-26 07:22 · Score: 1

To think, a pretzel could've made all the difference in the world...
Re:That explains the Shrub... by DroppedPacket · 2003-09-26 07:28 · Score: 1

Thank you Mr. Chamberlain.
Now start talking about the Seqway and why it is interesting that you can download an update to the OS on it.

--
I am not a resource! I am a free man!
Re:That explains the Shrub... by frodo+from+middle+ea · 2003-09-26 07:30 · Score: 1

Ah the classic eddie izzard sketch, but i am dead sure its influenced by one of monty python sketches from "And now for something completely different".
I can't quite remember which one, but its the one, where the enemy is defeted by a joke.

--
for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
Re:That explains the Shrub... by B3ryllium · 2003-09-26 07:53 · Score: 1

The funniest joke in the world. It had to be translated one word at a time, because seeing more than two words at a time could incapacitate someone for a week (with laughter).

I think the modern-day equivalent would be an open letter from Darl McBride.
Re:That explains the Shrub... by F34nor · 2003-09-26 07:54 · Score: 1

I think these would be good for special forces. Run faster than a Seqway 25 mph vs. 12(?) and jump 2 meters in the air. These things seriously kick ass.
Re:That explains the Shrub... by rifter · 2003-09-26 07:55 · Score: 1

"some Segway HTs may not deliver enough power, allowing the rider to fall. This can happen if the rider speeds up abruptly, encounters an obstacle, or continues to ride after receiving a low-battery alert."

or if the rider is fresh from a tennis match with Poppy, rushing to an appointment to bomb some unsuspecting nation back to the stone age.

Maybe this is why the segway s being recalled?

Anyway this is just one more example of the stupification of America. So if a person has a chance of being hurt if they operate a vehicle outside of the manufacturer's specifications, ignoring the manual and all visible warnings, ths is cause for a recall?

Great, maybe I should just start backing into people with a Winstar equipped with rear sensors and then sue Ford.
Re:That explains the Shrub... by justinstreufert · 2003-09-26 08:03 · Score: 1

Wouldn't that make them the U.S. extra-special forces?

Justin

--
"Why would God give us a waist if we wasn't supposed to rest our pants on it?" - Rev. Roy McDaniels
Re:That explains the Shrub... by tgibbs · 2003-09-26 08:10 · Score: 3, Insightful

also bush isn't the 1st or only one who said iraq had wmd and saddam was a threat
Well, DUH!
Nobody ever doubted that Iraq had had WMD in the past, and virtually nobody doubted that the threat of force was necessary to induce Iraq to eliminate their WMD. The entire debate was whether Iraq had WMD mobilized and ready to use at the time of the invasion, posing such an urgent and immediate threat that it was necessary for the US to execute a pre-emptive strike, instead of cooperating with the international effort to enforce elimination of Iraq's WMD through the UN and the inspection process.
Re:That explains the Shrub... by madcow_ucsb · 2003-09-26 08:27 · Score: 1

Wow that's crazy. But I can only imagine what would happen if you tripped when running 25mph.

I mean people can kill themselves just slipping on a bathroom floor...
Re:That explains the Shrub... by Drathos · 2003-09-26 08:36 · Score: 1

Yes.. The Special Forces. The Army uses the Special Olympics as a recruiting test for them.

Didn't you know about them?

Did you really think Kamen meant the Rangers/Delta Force/Force Recon?

--
End of line..
Re:That explains the Shrub... by jhylkema · 2003-09-26 08:42 · Score: 1

CUT! Stop that! It's silly! And a bit suspect, I think . . .
Re:That explains the Shrub... by pyrrhonist · 2003-09-26 09:07 · Score: 1

But I can only imagine what would happen if you tripped when running 25mph.
Been there, done that.
While I was running a 400M, the guy next to me clipped my leg causing me to fall face first onto a cinder track...
...10M from the finish line.
I went from first place to last place in a split second. And, yes, it fucking hurt.
It's alright, though. I got the fucker in the relay. Muh, ha, ha, ha!

--
Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
Re:That explains the Shrub... by charon_on_acheron · 2003-09-26 09:44 · Score: 1

"1 country (or 2 if you wanna count England) out of god knows how "

First, there are over 30 countries with troops in Iraq, assisting the US and UK forces. Second, anyone can Google for the 'number of countries', and find out there are 189 countries officially in the UN, plus the Vatican (Holy See), Switzerland (neutral), and East Timor (newly independant country), for a total of 192 independant states in the world. It doesn't take a vision from God to figure this out.

(Source: CountryWatch)
Re:That explains the Shrub... by EvilAlien · 2003-09-26 09:47 · Score: 1

Kamen is an idiot.
I think the Segway recall is awesome, the idea was idiotic in the first place. Now turbocharge those rediculous things, add missles and laser blasters, and you've got an elite gun platform for the army.
Of course, the army will really only be going in once the Airforce has already done the fighting, so the people who are laughing will be the "liberated" citizens of country X.

--
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'
Re:That explains the Shrub... by Directrix1 · 2003-09-26 10:30 · Score: 1

Its an obvious Microsoft tactic. Cripple the user so they'll be forced to upgrade.

--
Occam's razor is the blind faith in the natural selection of least resistance and in universal oversimplification. -- EF
Re:That explains the Shrub... by tgibbs · 2003-09-26 10:31 · Score: 1, Insightful

Because Saddam was complying with said inspections and the UN was enforcing the 17 resolutions it had passed. . .Oh wait, that didn't happen did it?
Well, yes, actually, it did. Saddam had complied, but not in a manner that most UN members considered adequate. Most members of the UN were in favor of making further demands upon Iraq, continuing inspections, and setting a deadline for full compliance at some time perhaps a few weeks or months in the future, given that there was no evidence of any WMD. But the US insisted that the WMD were there and posed an immediate and severe threat so great that we could not accept the time frame favored by most of the UN. Instead, we chose to take the drastic step of a pre-emptive invasion without the military or financial support of most of the countries that had backed us previously in the first Gulf War and in Afghanistan.
If we'd chosen instead to continue to work with the UN, it is quite likely that an invasion would have eventually taken place. We just wouldn't be footing virtually the entire bill and taking all of the blame (and almost all of the casualties).
Re:That explains the Shrub... by Excen · 2003-09-26 10:36 · Score: 1

That is, without a doubt, the funniest thing I have seen all week! His crash, with the exception of the pretzel, sums up this clown's life. He takes control of the best form of (fill in blank) in the world and manages to completely F**k it up.

--
"No beer until you finish your tequila!" -Leela's Dad
Re:That explains the Shrub... by homer_ca · 2003-09-26 10:38 · Score: 1

"Anyway this is just one more example of the stupification of America"

One could argue that the design of the Segway itself is a sign of the stupification of America. You're at the mercy of the computer because there's no manual override; not that you could balance it manually anyway unless you were a skilled unicycle rider. It's purposely designed to be idiotproof and require little to no skill to operate. It's barely one step above Steven Hawking's electric wheelchair.
Re:That explains the Shrub... by TPFH · 2003-09-26 11:16 · Score: 1

remember kids that the majority of americans & the congress & senate voted to go after iraq...also bush isn't the 1st or only one who said iraq had wmd and saddam was a threat...remember these?

Not to mention how Clinton continually interrupted the inspections proccess by repeatedly bombing Iraq. According to Scott Ritter 95% of the WMD had been accounted for and the only reason they were not able to complete the job was because Clinton would not let them.

Does anyone have any documentation on how many times Clinton bombed Iraq? The exact dates would be nice too. Not to mention how much money those bombing runs cost us. F*#&ing liberals wasting our taxpayer dollars on a scumbag like Saddam Hussein!

(What does this have to do with the Segway anyway?)

(Guess I'll put in a link to the Smegway to make this somewhat on-topic. The Smegways explode by the way. I wonder if they count as a WMD?)

--
This signature used to contain a cute kitty virus with ansii art. Please set the slashdot editors on fire. Thank you
Re:That explains the Shrub... by BVD · 2003-09-26 11:40 · Score: 1

even if most of the people in the UN supported this, France said time & time again that they would veto any resolution that set a hard date on compliance. They refused any proposal that had a clause that would automatically trigger an invasion. Thus, there was no way to get a resolution that was enforceable. Powel said many times that if France would set any hard date for compliance, then the US would agree to wait on the UN.
Re:That explains the Shrub... by Slime-dogg · 2003-09-26 12:34 · Score: 1

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of.

You don't wait till you have a virus before you install anti-virus software.

You don't wait till people start rooting your machine before you apply the OpenSSH patch.

You also don't wait until your first heart attack before you start eating healthily and exercising, you don't wait until you have AIDS before you decide to proceed with caution, and you certainly don't wait until cars start going before you start to cross the street.

Prevention is the best protection. There wasn't a doubt that WMD existed, or that there was a program. There wasn't any doubt that the U.S. had a unanimous decision to bomb the shit out of the country.

I might not be happy with how he's handling the situation at the moment, I don't think he really planned this far in advance, but at least he's the one that had the balls to finally finish that f*cker Saddam off.

--
You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.
Re:That explains the Shrub... by F34nor · 2003-09-26 12:46 · Score: 1

People in the Army have helmets and body armor so probably hurts less than lycra and a sweat band. I think they would also be good for paratroopers, nice shock absorbers for the landing.

Also if you watch the videos on the site people seem to recover pretty easily from trips etc. on these things. It could just be traing, traing, traing but who knows.

I want to get some of these and bolt mountain goat hoves to the base and go braffing down scree slopes. I might wear a helemt for that. p.s. Anybody got $800 they want to loan me for a piar of these?

I guess the Russians had some gasoline powered things like these back in the day. You could jump 40 feet in the air but landing was a unresolved problem.
Re:That explains the Shrub... by be-fan · 2003-09-26 13:22 · Score: 1

Invading another country isn't a preventive measure. Its an act of agression. You do it only if there is abso-fucking-lutely nothing else you can do.

--
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Re:That explains the Shrub... by tgibbs · 2003-09-26 14:15 · Score: 1

They refused any proposal that had a clause that would automatically trigger an invasion.

Of course not! After all, no proposal can "automatically" trigger an invasion--somebody has to decide to invade. So "automatically" is really a code word for "the US will be authorized to unilaterally decide whether or not Iraq has met the terms of the proposal" -- in other words, a betrayal of the entire multilateral concept of the UN. However, according to James Rubin, who spoke to French and other officials in researching his article for "Foreign Affairs," Russia, France, Angola, Cameroon, Chile, Guinea, Mexico, and Pakistan were all willing to support a resolution that set a definite deadline. The French wanted 9 months, but most countries were willing to accept as little as four. There was even a compromise plan that had the backing of Blix and 10 other countries, which set definite benchmarks for compliance, a mid April deadline, and included a presumption that failure to comply would constitute a material breach and trigger the use of force. The plan collapsed for lack of US support; Bush was willing to offer only a one-week extension to mid-March. Even if such a plan had been passed and vetoed by France (who might well have had second thoughts if they had found themselves standing alone), it would have put the US in a much better position, with strong international support for its actions.
My suspicion is that key US officials did not want UN backing. Caught up in their own ideology, they had lost touch with reality, and genuinely believed what they were saying publicly--that US forces would be hailed as liberators, and that only a modest contingent of perhaps 30,000 US troops would be required to maintain order post-war. Had this happened, the UN would have looked pretty foolish for its failure to cooperate, and US prestige and international influence would have been greatly enhanced.
The problem with ideologues is that they never seriously consider the question, "What happens if we are wrong?" So now the US military is dangerously overextended, at a cost that will likely cripple an already-weak US economy. And our only prospect of relief is to turn for aid to the UN that we so lately spurned. But to have a serious chance of recruiting strong international support, we will have to acknowledge that we made a mistake. This would require a President and senior staff with the courage and integrity to place the welfare of the nation above their own personal pride and narrow political interests. I can't say that I'm particularly optimistic....
Re:That explains the Shrub... by nitrocloud · 2003-09-26 14:31 · Score: 1

Actually... it'd be a burden and it would never be good for paratroopers. The extra weight means all new bigger paracutes, many millions there, and the fact that paratroopers often don't land on their feet in a quick assualt, but roll.

--
Karma: Good, or bust!
Re:That explains the Shrub... by Galvatron · 2003-09-26 14:54 · Score: 1

Actually, that's not correct. France doubted that the threat of force was necessary to induce Iraq to eliminate their WMD. Indeed, they had vowed to veto any resolution which threatened force for non-compliance. THAT was what led to the breakdown in UN talks.

--
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Re:That explains the Shrub... by tgibbs · 2003-09-26 16:00 · Score: 1

Actually, that's not correct. France doubted that the threat of force was necessary to induce Iraq to eliminate their WMD. Indeed, they had vowed to veto any resolution which threatened force for non-compliance. THAT was what led to the breakdown in UN talks.
What led to the breakdown in talks was our invasion of Iraq. France didn't actually veto anything, indeed, there would have been no need for them to do so, as we could not get even majority support for what we were demanding--a resolution that would essentially give us UN authority for an immediate invasion.
French officals similarly claim that Chrac would have gone ahead with the use of force if a nine-month schedule had been set at the beginning. The swing voters on the council (Angola, Cameroon, Chile, Guinea, Mexico, and Pakistan) would have been satisfied with as little as four months....
To secure a second resolution would have also required some compromise on substance, especially the question of timing. London was willing to endorse such an approach, but Washington was not. Had the Bush administration shown some flexibility in early March, however, it would have been France that ended up on the losing side of the tally, not the United States. In fact, a compromise text did emerge that would have had the tacit backing of Blix and the support of ten countries. This resolution would have entailed the following elements: the establlishment of benchmarks for compliance...the setting of a mid-April deadline for Iraq to meet the established tests; and, finally, a presumption that failure to comply would constitute a material breach and thus trigger the use of force...
...but Washington's inflexibilty doomed the effort. Instead, either because of the military timetable or because he was frustrated with the diplomatic process, Bush offered a one-week extension to mid-March--no compromise at all --James P Rubin, Stumbling Into War
Re:That explains the Shrub... by frycarson · 2003-09-26 16:19 · Score: 1

Last I checked Iraq was trying to show how they didn't have WMD with letting weapon inspectors in and follow most demands (IIRC) except for saddam to leave the country (AIIRC he isn't "allowed" to do that thanks to Desert Storm or whatever). We've been in and out of there for the last, what, 6-7 years with inspectors. Sure he jerked everyone around every once and a while, but always seemed to give in when the armed forces came out. W was out of line. We have done much more damage then 9/11 did to us just bombing random countries for the last, well, 20 or so years. America is dirty, but luckily most of the stuff our country has done isn't plastered on the front page. USA needs to mind our own business and stop policing the world. No one likes cops, especially the corrupt bully type.

-FRYcarson : common fool, or something else?
Re:That explains the Shrub... by whynotme · 2003-09-26 17:47 · Score: 1

The problem with ideologues is that they never seriously consider the question, "What happens if we are wrong?"

You're wrong...
Re:That explains the Shrub... by Comen · 2003-09-26 18:04 · Score: 1

I agree that we should never have invaded Iraq.
You simply do not go to war unless it is abso-fucking-lutely the last option available.
People that have been through a bad war I think would agree that with it come lots
of killing and lots of those are innocent people. That means you don't simply go to
war cause you felt like there might be some weapons there, even if there was, I
seriously doubt we were in any danger.
This was about oil and money, the sooner people wake up and realize that what
makes the USA function is money , big companies with money. simple greed. and
we always seems to think that others should be more like us. Don't let the patriotic
bullshit fool you for a min.
We have had our noses in Iraq for some time now and if that area what any other
place with just some bad guy ruling it with no oil to be had we wouldn't know who
Sadam is right now.
I still cant make up my mind... if it makes me more mad that the goverment fills us full of so much bullshit or that people belive anything they say.
Re:That explains the Shrub... by MegaHamsterX · 2003-09-26 18:46 · Score: 1

There wasn't much else we could do to end the oil embargo on IRAQ since the last gulf war.

Simple logic, it took a war to apply the embargo, so it takes a war to remove it, c'mon can't you understand the logic, I supported the war so I could get cheaper gas.
Re:That explains the Shrub... by be-fan · 2003-09-26 19:58 · Score: 1

There might be a fine line between purple and lavander, but there isn't between red and green. The president himself said that there is no connection between Iraq and 9/11. We didn't even have so much as unfounded-speculation that there was an imminent threat. All we knew is that they *might* have weapons. So we attacked them because they *might* have had weapons. My neighbor has a gun. Should I preemptively murder him because he might get me first?

--
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Re:That explains the Shrub... by MasterSLATE · 2003-09-26 22:34 · Score: 1

Ok, you wanted me to have more backing, it seems...

"The US government announced that 49 countries are joined in a "coalition of the willing" to remove Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq, with some number of other countries expressing their support in private."

That is... lets see, only about 25% of all countries?

"Countries [that have] supplied combat forces directly participating in the invasion of Iraq: the United States, United Kingdom, Australia, and Poland. "

And 2% of all countries have sent troops over?

"On January 29, 2003, the European Parliament passed a nonbinding resolution opposing unilateral military action against Iraq by the United States. "

More countries for/against the war: http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwide_government _positions_on_war_on_Iraq#Supporting_US_position

"NATO deferred a decision on a U.S. request for assistance in a possible attack."

The numbers are against the USA and this war.

--

[sig]www.masterslate.org[/sig]
Re:That explains the Shrub... by wampus · 2003-09-27 03:38 · Score: 1

What this has to do with a Segway I do not know. Gerald Ford fell down, too. It was funny. Lots of people think it is funny when the president falls down and bruises his dignity.
Re:That explains the Shrub... by Tukla · 2003-09-27 12:38 · Score: 1

Just a nit: They're not really "terrorists" when they're targeting military personnel.
Re:That explains the Shrub... by charon_on_acheron · 2003-09-27 21:26 · Score: 1

Let me restate my first point: Over 30 countries currently have troops in Iraq, working with the US and UK commands, mainly as 'peacekeeping' forces in Baghdad and other cities. These other countries didn't have forces there at the start of the war, but they are there now. So, perhaps only four countries participated in the 'invasion of Iraq', but now many more want to help Iraq get through this situation, and have sent their soldiers.
Re:That explains the Shrub... by Chris+Burke · 2003-09-29 03:06 · Score: 1

Your satiric abilities are subtle and profound.
No mod points, so no +1 Funny for you. :)

--

The enemies of Democracy are
Re:That explains the Shrub... by mink · 2003-09-30 09:59 · Score: 1

""The US government announced that 49 countries are joined in a "coalition of the willing" to remove Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq, with some number of other countries expressing their support in private.""

So the lurkers support us in E-mail?

--
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Re:That explains the Shrub... by kiwaiti · 2003-10-01 05:03 · Score: 1

If you had determined there was a virus already, would you neutralize it using anti-virus software or a baseball bat?
Better still, if you fear people might try to break into your machine, would you apply your OpenSSH patch or have them arrested by the FBI for possession of potentially dangerous skills/knowledge?
Would you undergo cardic surgery (or whatever they call it in english) just to make sure there is nothing wrong with your heart, unless there was some very convincing evidence to the opposite?
Kiwaiti

--
Member of the Legion Of Microsoft Haters

Their own dumbass fault by Gibble · 2003-09-26 06:28 · Score: 4, Insightful

If you continue to ride after the low battery alert, it's your own dumbass fault if you get hurt.

It's like saying it's Fords fault your engine died because you didn't check your oil.

--
Gibble: Descriptive of an emotional state in which one's mind is scrabbling for some purchase on reality

Re:Their own dumbass fault by stratjakt · 2003-09-26 06:30 · Score: 3, Insightful

This can happen if the rider speeds up abruptly, encounters an obstacle, or continues to ride after receiving a low-battery alert.

Sounds like Segways just dont work.

Still, if you were stupid enough to plunk down that much coin on a scooter, you deserve what you get.

--
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Re:Their own dumbass fault by connsmythe96 · 2003-09-26 06:33 · Score: 1

If you don't ever put more gas in your car, then the engine WILL die. And there's a reasonable chance that you will hit be hit by another car when your car stops moving. That's the same thing.

--
if(!cool) exit(-1);
Re:Their own dumbass fault by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-26 06:33 · Score: 1, Funny

If reading a dipstick is a "battle of friggin' wits" you may want to start wearing a helmet when you walk.

I'm just suggesting this for your own safety.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by hackstraw · 2003-09-26 06:35 · Score: 1

I ususally agree with the stupid user argument (I'm a UNIX sysadmin :), but in both cases you mention the driver is not thrown from the vehicle. Also, if you were going down the street, you were half way to your destination, and you got the low battery light, would you just hop off or keep going until it died? I know what I would do.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by stratjakt · 2003-09-26 06:36 · Score: 1

Power steering/power breaks work so long as your battery has a charge (key in "on" position).

--
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Re:Their own dumbass fault by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-26 06:41 · Score: 1, Informative

Nope, power steering and brakes (like the air conditioner) work off of hydrolic pumps getting power from the engine. No electricity involved. If the engine isn't turning, they aren't working.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by stratjakt · 2003-09-26 06:42 · Score: 4, Insightful

These are being marketed as tools for the elderly and others, as an untippable, safe alternative to a wheelchair.

It isnt so much that they can tip over, but the fact that they're not supposed to.

--
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Re:Their own dumbass fault by GigsVT · 2003-09-26 06:42 · Score: 1

No, you're wrong.

--
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by bazmonkey · 2003-09-26 06:43 · Score: 1

Good to know they give some thought to the dumbass people.

Seriously though, there is a difference between an engine dying because it wasn't maintained. You shouldn't rely on a not-maintained engine to work. If I was whooshing by on a gizmo that accounts for my balance, I do expect it to keep me balanced. When the battery gets low, the thing should refuse to drive. The balance giving out before it stops moving is bad, even though you should charge it up.

A more appropriate example would be blaming Ford if the power steering/braking gave out a few miles before the engine did when you ran out of gas.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by bluGill · 2003-09-26 06:44 · Score: 1

One what car? I know of no car where power steering works when the key is on. The cars I know of with power steering all all operated by a pump connected by belt to the engine. Every one I have ever seen or heard of works this way. When the engine is not turning you don't have power steering. (I drive a stick so I can have a situation where the engine is running, but still turning, automatics work differently)
As for power breaks, some might work off electrical power, I don't know. I know several power brake systems that work off of engine vacuume, and thus do not work unless the engine is running. With some systems you can feel this in the brake pedal: start the car while pressing the brake, and a moment latter the pedal will sink as power brakes kick in.
Personally I prefer not to have power assist on either brakes or steering, as it is just one more part to go wrong. Cars with power assist are designed so they difficult for strong people to use without assist. Cars without work just fine without it.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by 241comp · 2003-09-26 06:44 · Score: 5, Informative

Actually, that is not true in many vehicles. Most vehicles have vacuum assist brakes and they are not electrically activated (the engine must be running). See http://autos.yahoo.com/repair/results/ques145.html .

As for power steering, there are a very limited number of cars with electric power steering. To quote Jim Kerr, "So what vehicles have electric power steering? While TRW did make some systems in the early 80's, such as the Fiero that used an electric motor to drive the hydraulic power steering pump, the first real application had to be the Acura NSX. Compact, light and responsive, the steering system matched the characteristics of this aluminum bodied sports coupe. Honda again introduced a system on the S2000 sports car. Steering response and feel are excellent. Smaller, lighter electric units are also used on Honda's Hybid Insight and Civic sedan.

Saturn is using electric power steering on the Vue SUV and the Ion sedan. QuadraSteer, GM's rear wheel steering system optional on some full size trucks is a true electric steering system with no mechanical connection to the steering wheel. When GM introduces the 2004 Malibu, it will use Delphi's new E*STEER unit. Other OEM vendors of electric power steering systems are Visteon with EPAS and ZF Freidrichshafen AG with ZF Servolectric."

--
Full-Featured GPL Web Hosting Control Panel
Re:Their own dumbass fault by homerjs42 · 2003-09-26 06:45 · Score: 1

Power steering/power breaks work so long as your battery has a charge (key in "on" position)
Power brakes run off of engine vacuum which only exists when you have en engine running.
Power steering is usually powered off the engine also, although sometimes it is electronically
assisted. All this to say: no.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by tessaiga · 2003-09-26 06:45 · Score: 5, Insightful

If you continue to ride after the low battery alert, it's your own dumbass fault if you get hurt. It's like saying it's Fords fault your engine died because you didn't check your oil.
How often does your engine oil require refilling? And how far can you go on an engine with low oil?
How about a Segway battery?
There's a much bigger margin for error on the car. A better analogy would be, wouldn't they recall cars if your car steering and brakes failed every time the "low gas" indicator went on.

--
The bold print giveth, and the fine print taketh away ...
Re:Their own dumbass fault by mindbooger · 2003-09-26 06:47 · Score: 2, Insightful

Actually, I believe a more appropriate example would be blaming Ford if your car died halfway through an intersection when you pulled out after the low gas chime chimed, the gauge read empty, and the little low gas warning light were on -- and you got hit. Guess what: machine runs out of fuel? It can't do its job. Duh...
Re:Their own dumbass fault by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-26 06:50 · Score: 1, Interesting

The funny thing, is there is no way for them to stop the Segway if the rider doesn't cooperate. You lean forward to go foward. If the Segway want you to slow down, it can only do it by letting you fall over.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by Thagg · 2003-09-26 06:57 · Score: 1

My Toyota MR2 Spyder (lovely car) has electrical power steering. There are a number of reasons (excuses) for this, the biggest one is that the engine is in the back, and running hydraulic lines from the back to the front would be heavy, expensive, and prone to failure.

One surprising result of the electric power steering is that it doesn't turn on when the car is push started. It's a whole different beast without the power steering, especially at low speeds. The car is basically a go-kart, with extremely quick steering ratios, but those ratios only work if you have power steering -- even with only 35% of the weight on the front wheels.

thad

[mod me down for OT, it's probably warranted]

--
I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by edwdig · 2003-09-26 06:59 · Score: 1

If you continue to drive your car when the low gas light comes on, you're not going to get hurt.

The low battery light on the Segway should come on when there is still sufficient power for you to travel a reasonable distance to recharge it. Kinda like how when the low gas light on your car comes on, you don't have to get out and push it to a gas station.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by salzbrot · 2003-09-26 06:59 · Score: 1

Well, if you are riding a motorbike and your engine runs out of oil, there is a big chance that the "ejection seat" is activated: The piston seizure will block the wheel and while your bike imediately stops on the highway, you will continue your ride involuntarily a couple hundred feet ...

So it is more like saying it's Harley Davidsons fault, that your oil is low.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by DWIM · 2003-09-26 07:04 · Score: 2, Informative

A better analogy would be, wouldn't they recall cars if your car steering and brakes failed every time the "low gas" indicator went on.
Actually, with power steering/braking, when the gas runs out and the motor dies, the car becomes considerably harder to control.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by stratjakt · 2003-09-26 07:07 · Score: 1

Hence the low gas indicator comes on, and you can probably still travel 20 miles or so to the nearest station.

Of course, everyone on this whole thread missed the point that low batteries is only ONE cause of these things flipping over. Turning or accelerating suddenly can make it happen to.

So, why not wheelie bars, like on a dragster, front and back. That way when the whiz-bang technology fails, you have a common sense mechanical backup.

--
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Re:Their own dumbass fault by bklock · 2003-09-26 07:09 · Score: 1

Guess what: machine runs out of fuel? It can't do its job. Duh...

You are, of course, correct-- but I think the issue here is graceful failure. Its one thing if my car stops moving when it runs out of gas. Its another thing if my car flips over on its roof and bursts into flames when it runs out of gas.

I think the issue here, is that if the Segway doesn't have enough juice for it to operate safely, it should stop moving completely. When your car gets low on gas it doesn't deactivate the airbags, un-fasten the seatbelts, and turn off all the safety features to get that extra 600 feet.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by wren337 · 2003-09-26 07:14 · Score: 1

GM was just quoted saying drive by wire is the future of vehicles. Running out of Hydrogen for your fuel cell while on the freeway could be Very Exciting.

What with no brakes or steering.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by cosmo7 · 2003-09-26 07:14 · Score: 1

Analogies are like a box of chocolates; you never know if people are going to get it.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by gl4ss · 2003-09-26 07:15 · Score: 1

imagine being in a busy intersection.. and running out of gas just when you have enough momentum to get straight to the middle of the damn thing, and the lights are very fast so theres already a truck coming.

little stretched, but not far.

--
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by Bluetrust25 · 2003-09-26 07:15 · Score: 1

Nope, power steering and brakes (like the air conditioner) work off of hydrolic pumps getting power from the engine. No electricity involved. If the engine isn't turning, they aren't working.

This poster is correct. It's especially important to know this if you drive a manual transmission, because if you're like me, you often don't push the clutch in while braking until just before you stop (save wear and tear on your brakes and all that.) The problem is, if you lock up the brakes without pushing the clutch in, then the engine will stall and the brake pedal will get all mushy, so when you start pumping it, you won't stop. Bad stuff!

Happened to me once on the freeway. I tapped the bumper of a guy in front of me after decelerating from 70mph to 0 in a messy skidding stop. If I had pushed the clutch in then I wouldn't have hit him.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by Zathrus · 2003-09-26 07:18 · Score: 2, Insightful

Actually, with power steering/braking, when the gas runs out and the motor dies, the car becomes considerably harder to control.

There's a huge difference between "harder" and "impossible". Plus cars do have manual backup for at least one of the systems -- even if every piece of electronics in your car dies you can always use the emergency brake (although I shudder to think what would happen if most people -- myself included -- tried to use the emergency brake as an actual emergency brake instead of just an added precaution against rolling while the car is off).

I suppose the equivalent of the emergency brake in the Segway is getting off -- but that may be rather dangerous at 20-25 mph or while turning. In fact, that's what caused the recall in the first place.

And, as another poster points out, low battery wasn't the only cause of failure.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by bobthemuse · 2003-09-26 07:19 · Score: 1

Can I sue someone if I bump my head in the dark after my flashlight batteries die?

Ah, the great american dream....
Re:Their own dumbass fault by Xtraneous · 2003-09-26 07:23 · Score: 1

Please see the definition of friggin' (frigging).

I truly hope that it wasnt a downright battle of friggin' wits.

--
.noitacidem deen uoy siht daer nac uoy fI
Re:Their own dumbass fault by Smidge204 · 2003-09-26 07:23 · Score: 1

Until you're driving on the freeway, ignoring the light/gauge, and suddenly your car runs out of gas and stalls.

Now you're doing 70mph, deccelerating quickly (engine braking), with no power steering or brakes.

If you only need a few stiches in your scalp after getting out of that pickle, you're one lucky guy.

Same thing with a segway, really. Make sure you're got enough power to keep you going and you'll probably be okay.
=Smidge=
Re:Their own dumbass fault by nurb432 · 2003-09-26 07:24 · Score: 2, Insightful

Or if you get burnt from pouring hot coffee in your lap?

Oh wait, she won that suit.. :)

This is america, common sence in these matters dont always apply.. And we are 'sue-happy'.

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Re:Their own dumbass fault by andyh1978 · 2003-09-26 07:31 · Score: 1

One what car? I know of no car where power steering works when the key is on. The cars I know of with power steering all all operated by a pump connected by belt to the engine. Every one I have ever seen or heard of works this way. When the engine is not turning you don't have power steering. (I drive a stick so I can have a situation where the engine is running, but still turning, automatics work differently)
I'm taking driving lessons (after years of putting it off) in a Vauxhall Corsa, and one of the requirements of the UK driving test is being able to demonstrate that various parts of the car are OK; checking oil, brakes, lights and so on.

One of the checks was the power steering; turn the car off and turn the wheel until there's some resistance, then turn the key to get the electrics on (but not start the engine); the electrical power steering then turns the wheels.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by tomhudson · 2003-09-26 07:32 · Score: 1

But if the car is still moving at a decent speed, then steering isn't hard (as a matter of fact, the power steering pump has a built-in bypass valve, b/c otherwise it owuld produce too much pressure/volume at highway speeds). You don't need power steering to maneuver on the highway, it's mostly for low-speed/parking.
Also, some vehicles do have electric-assist (a lot of heavy equipment is required to have a backup electric hydraulic pump for steering - like a Cat 966 loader, for example).
Power brakes don't work off hydraulic pumps - they work off of 1 of two means: engine vacuum or an electric-powered motor that supplies the vacuum required for the booster (that big round thing behind the brake oil holder) ... There's usually enough vacuum left after the engine stops for 1 full application of the brakes.
And some cars are so light they don't need power brakes or power steering.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by edwdig · 2003-09-26 07:39 · Score: 1

When the low gas light on a car comes on, it doesn't mean instant trouble. You have time to respond.

Not the case with a Segway.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by NoahsMyBro · 2003-09-26 07:44 · Score: 1

quote:
Running out of Hydrogen for your fuel cell while on the freeway could be Very Exciting.

Wow - the All New Cadillac STS VE Edition!
Re:Their own dumbass fault by Ever+Dubious · 2003-09-26 07:47 · Score: 1

Actually, I think in most instances here, analogies are a waste of time and only serve to obfuscate the point.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by chainsaw1 · 2003-09-26 07:55 · Score: 1

Actually, it depends on the car. Since power steering units have different gearboxes from manual, most auto manufacturers make the gear ratio steeper in the power assisted units...which is that much harder to turn than manual boxes at any speed. The only thing rolling gets you away from is the resistive friction of the tires against the ground

--
- Sig
Re:Their own dumbass fault by Lumpy · 2003-09-26 07:58 · Score: 1

If you continue to ride after the low battery alert, it's your own dumbass fault if you get hurt.

that's what the recall is for... to apply a sticker that says exactly that.

I just hope they use that exact wording...

--
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by mshomphe · 2003-09-26 07:58 · Score: 1

That was a valid lawsuit, and had nothing to do with being a dumbass:
http://www.vanfirm.com/mcdonalds-coffee-lawsuit.ht m

--
She sat at the window watching the evening invade the avenue.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by cosmo7 · 2003-09-26 08:01 · Score: 4, Funny

I agree. Using analogies on Slashdot is like comparing apples and oranges.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by chill · 2003-09-26 08:02 · Score: 1

Or if you get burnt from pouring hot coffee in your lap?

Oh wait, she won that suit.. :)

This is america, common sence in these matters dont always apply.. And we are 'sue-happy'.

Update... McDonald's coffee was *too* hot -- about 180-190 degrees, or 20+ deg higher than anyone elses.. That woman needed skin grafts because of the resulting 3rd degree burns. If I spill coffee, I expect to get scalded but not need major surgery.

"Company documents showed that in the past decade McDonald's had received at least 700 reports of coffee burns ranging from mild to third degree, and had settled claims arising from scalding injuries for more than $500,000."

http://www.vanfirm.com/mcdonalds-coffee-lawsuit. ht m

The initial award ($3 million -- 2 days worth of coffee sales) was reduced by an judge to $480,000 worth of punative damages (down from $2.7 million).

McDonalds originally offered $800 for her medical bills (several thousand $$) and pain and suffering.

In short, she was right to sue. McDonalds was gravely negligent and deserved a hell of a lot more than a slap-on-the-wrist of half-million dollars.

The common sense that should have prevailed was McDonalds not acting like assholes and paying the woman's medical bills to begin with.

--
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by wraithgar · 2003-09-26 08:04 · Score: 1

I think it was more like

if the rider (speeds up abruptly || encounters an obstacle || continues to ride) && receiving a low-battery alert

That's how I read it.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by bhtooefr · 2003-09-26 08:08 · Score: 1

Umm, it would be possible to stop even if the rider is leaning forward - if not, you'd have to kick off to start the Segway, or have damn good balance.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by tgibbs · 2003-09-26 08:15 · Score: 1

Have you ever had the engine of a large car with power steering/braking die with the car in motion? I did, once. It took all of my strength, literally standing on the brake pedal while yanking on one side of the wheel with both hands, to slow the car down and wrestle it over to the side of the road.

This was a quite a few years ago--perhaps modern cars aren't so bad?
Re:Their own dumbass fault by poot_rootbeer · 2003-09-26 08:15 · Score: 1

These are being marketed as tools for the elderly and others, as an untippable, safe alternative to a wheelchair.

They are?
Re:Their own dumbass fault by ShadowRage · 2003-09-26 08:17 · Score: 1

same mentality that has people suing mcdonalds.
people want to blame someone else for their problems. and why not make a quick buck off of doing it too?
that's what the company fears.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by magarity · 2003-09-26 08:17 · Score: 2, Insightful

This is a tricky sentence and I'm not sure how to parse it. I am sure that there are three things that can cause the problem. But what exactly are those three things? Me thinks it goes like this:
This can happen if the rider:
1. speeds up abruptly,
2. encounters an obstacle, or
3. continues to ride
...after receiving a low-battery alert.
Now this would explain the problem. The question is the whether the last item is "continues to ride" or "continues to ride after receiving a low-battery alert".
Re:Their own dumbass fault by Ibanez · 2003-09-26 08:30 · Score: 1

No, actually I think these are marketed as the next personal transport, ala bicycles.

I HIGHLY doubt they would promote this as an alternative to a wheel chair, when Dean's other invention, which this is based on, IS a wheelchair that rises to an average person's eye level, balances on two wheels, and goes up stairs.

Promoting the Segway as an alternative to a wheelchair kinda eats into that market...

Blake
Re:Their own dumbass fault by mantera · 2003-09-26 08:31 · Score: 1

How often does your engine oil require refilling? And how far can you go on an engine with low oil?

eh i can tell you about that... my engine failed 'cos i procrastinated refilling the oil after i'd seen the low oil indicator and thought "i'll do it after this trip".
i'm not sure how long but it's not long enough, and it leaves you feeling like a dumbass.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by rifter · 2003-09-26 08:32 · Score: 1

You are, of course, correct-- but I think the issue here is graceful failure. Its one thing if my car stops moving when it runs out of gas. Its another thing if my car flips over on its roof and bursts into flames when it runs out of gas.

The problem here is the way batteries work. An internal combustion engine, as you rightly point out, immediately stops if there is no more fuel. But on a battery you gradually lose charge and this of course leads to the situation described in the article, where you have enough juice to limp along but not enough to work as well. All battery operated devices work this way because taht is how batteries work.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by Ibanez · 2003-09-26 08:33 · Score: 1

No, thats a horrible analogy. This situation involves a low battery warning, then the battery going too low to support the power necessary to keep it stable.

Your analogy is like saying you get a low battery warning and the wheel falls off. Not related.

On the other hand, the analogy you reference could better be stated, the oil pressure light comes on in your car and then the car dies a mile down the road.

Blake
Re:Their own dumbass fault by agallagh42 · 2003-09-26 08:40 · Score: 1

Article about electric assisted steering.

Some examples of cars with electric steering:

Acura NSX
Honda S2000
Honda Insight
Saturn Vue
Saturn Ion
2004 Chevy Malibu

Admittedly, not a very big group, but it's growing fast. I'm fairly sure there are some german cars using it now too, but I can't be bothered to look them up.

--
Carpe Cerevisi - Seize the Beer
Re:Their own dumbass fault by rifter · 2003-09-26 08:43 · Score: 1

Please see the definition of friggin' (frigging).

I truly hope that it wasnt a downright battle of friggin' wits.

I do not think that word means what you think it means. You know, I really think it is sad that so many slashdotters use reference.com as a dictionary when a real dictionary is available. Reference.com has never produced a decent definition of a word as far as I can tell, and seems to have less authority than any other random wiki.

Merriam Webster has the following for "frigging":

Main Entry: frig
Pronunciation: 'frig
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): frigged; frigging
Etymology: Middle English fryggen to wriggle
Date: 1598
usually vulgar : COPULATE -- sometimes used in the present participle as a meaningless intensive

In other words, it is a less vulgar form of "fucking" and is used in all the same senses of that word, though I would personally say it is rarely used in the literal sense. (Such as "Tom fucked Shirley." You never hear "Tom frigged Shirley." ) Masturbation? Whatever.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by Slack3r78 · 2003-09-26 08:45 · Score: 1

Ah, and you've hit on exactly why I've never understood why some people insist on doing that. Well, that and the fact that you're limiting wear on a set of brake pads that cost substantially less than the extra wear you're putting on the clutch by transmission braking since then. =)
Re:Their own dumbass fault by rifter · 2003-09-26 08:46 · Score: 1

I'm sure Pistons enjoyed it too. What an unusual name, is he your friend or your dog?

He's the guy recording the act for posterity in the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy. :P
Re:Their own dumbass fault by rifter · 2003-09-26 08:49 · Score: 1

Of course, everyone on this whole thread missed the point that low batteries is only ONE cause of these things flipping over. Turning or accelerating suddenly can make it happen to.

when the battery was low was likely to cause the segway to tip over.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by Smidge204 · 2003-09-26 08:49 · Score: 1

Are you sure? Have you fallen off one?

Somehow I doubt that the thing grinds to a dead stop as soon as the warning light comes on.

Though I suppose they call them "idiot lights" for a reason...
=Smidge=
Re:Their own dumbass fault by saskboy · 2003-09-26 08:50 · Score: 1

Except that the manual backup of a Segway is supposed to be you getting off, and standing up behind it.

--
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by rifter · 2003-09-26 08:59 · Score: 1

Of course, everyone on this whole thread missed the point that low batteries is only ONE cause of these things flipping over. Turning or accelerating suddenly can make it happen to.

No, what you missed was that turning or accellerating suddenly when the battery was low was likely to cause the segway to tip over.

Goodbye karma.. hello preview button... :P
Re:Their own dumbass fault by Smidge204 · 2003-09-26 09:06 · Score: 1

The 1984 Chevrolet Caprice station wagon had a hydraulic brake booster that ran off of the power steering pump.

Dumbest fucking idea ever, actualy... and outragiously expensive ($350 for the booster alone, and it's not even anti-lock!).
=Smidge=
Re:Their own dumbass fault by micromoog · 2003-09-26 09:07 · Score: 1

With your interpretation, only #3 would be necessary.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by _avs_007 · 2003-09-26 09:09 · Score: 1

So if you are on a motorcycle, and never bothered to maintain your bike, would you blame the manufacturer if:

You never bothered to replace your front tire, and you let it blow out on the freeway, causing you to lose control of your bike?

And speaking of the low battery light....

What would you do if you were in an electric helicopter, and got a low-battery light? :) Keep going to your destination?

I know the drag on the rotors would make it so you would not just plummet down like a rock, but I'm sure you would still sustain a few bumps and scratches.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by _avs_007 · 2003-09-26 09:11 · Score: 1

I hope that stairclimbing wheelchair doesn't topple over too when it runs out of juice...
Re:Their own dumbass fault by bluGill · 2003-09-26 09:16 · Score: 1

Others have pointed out a small minority of cars that have electric power steering.
Requiring you to know how to test power steering for a drivers test is stupid IMO. Check oil yes because all car (currently electric cars are rare) have a dipstick and need oil checked. Likewise tires nearly all have air that needs to be checked. Tail lights need to be checked once in a while. The power steering check you provided fails on most implimentations, so it is a useless test to learn on most cars. When power steering does brake it is normally a sudden thing - it is working just fine until the belt snaps, or the hose brakes, and then you have none (but I've never seen electric so I don't know how it works) - even then you still have steering, it is just hard.
You maintain the parts that are designed for maintance. You replace the parts with a recomended replacement intervile. You replace parts the computer says are bad (and then curse when the problem doesn't go away...). When parts fall into none of those catagories you hope they don't brake, and when they do, you deal with it from the side of the road.
If power steering int he Vauxhall Corsa requires testing with every startup, then there is a problem with the design. Most people will not do it, so they shouldn't require it. Of cousre most people won't check their oil, yet a modern engine requires it, so this isn't a new situation. Still they should try to do better.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by _avs_007 · 2003-09-26 09:19 · Score: 1

That's why many companies are trying to avoid calling them emergency brakes as opposed to parking brakes. On most cars, the "e-brake", is connected to the same brake mechanism in the rear wheel, so if the brake really did fail, the "e-brake" would fail as well. Besides, yanking the e-brake while on the freeway will just lockup the rear-wheels (probably disintigrating the tires in the process), probably causing you to lose control of the car, because you are probably yanking the steering wheel.

Can the segway really go 20-25mph? I was under the impression it only goes like 5-10 or something...
Re:Their own dumbass fault by Zakabog · 2003-09-26 09:21 · Score: 1

It's actually quite easy to use the emergency brake as an actual emergency brake. Make sure your wheel's are straight and your car isn't sliding around and just pull the emergency brake. It's like jamming on the brakes before ABS. Now if you turn your wheel sharp in any one direction before you pull the emergency brake your car will continue in the direction you were headed with a spin in the direction you turned. However, I would shudder to think what would happen if most people tried to use the emergency brake after losing control of the car (sliding on ice, snow or rain.)
Re:Their own dumbass fault by _avs_007 · 2003-09-26 09:25 · Score: 1

Drive-by-wire refers to the replacement of the accelerator linkage with electronics.

This linkage, whether electronic or mechanical, connects to the throttle plate on the intake of the engine. If you are out of fuel, it wouldn't matter if this linkage was mechanical or electronic, as no amount of movement of this plate will effect your velocity.

Replacing the steering rack with electronics is another technology. SAAB/GM experimented with this back in the 80s, but the test drivers complained about being "isolated" from road feel.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by _avs_007 · 2003-09-26 09:28 · Score: 1

And I thought only BMW suffered from that "feature" :)

Don't most cars have a clutch-interlock, requireing you to depress the clutch in order for the starter to engage?

If you drive an automatic, you are pretty much screwed in this scenario... I hope you have side-airbags :)
Re:Their own dumbass fault by sharkey · 2003-09-26 09:55 · Score: 1

And how far can you go on an engine with low oil?
In an '83 Bronco, about 1/4 of the way from Indianapolis to Idaho Falls. Then then engine seizes up, cracking every piston rod.

--

--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by bklock · 2003-09-26 09:55 · Score: 1

You are correct. However a segway is not a battery. It is much more than that and has the capacity on board to handle low-battery conditions in a safe way. This is in fact, what the firmware upgrade that segway is putting in the recalled devices do. If the segway doesn't have enough charge to operate safely, it will stop operating until charged. Many electronic devices work this way, they will refuse to operate below a certain voltage, rather than try to "limp along" and possibly cause damage.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by charon_on_acheron · 2003-09-26 09:57 · Score: 1

Yes, you would fall over three quarters of the way to your destination. ;^)
Re:Their own dumbass fault by charon_on_acheron · 2003-09-26 10:07 · Score: 1

Well, when I did it, I slammed into the guard rail. Crumpled my front end a bit, but the car still ran. I had to use the "emergency brake", because my normal brakes failed at the wrong moment. I could have eased off the emergency brake, but I never would have slowed down enough to not hit the car that stopped in front of me, as we had been doing about 50mph. I figured that I would rather slam the guard rail, since my car was a pile of junk anyway, rather than have to pay someone else's repair costs as well. As it was, I drove the car for another couple months using only the hand-brake, before that broke too. Thankfully, the shoulder of the road was covered in a foot of crunchy snow, and I safely stopped.

Oh, the joys of being a teenager with a shitty car.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by eyeye · 2003-09-26 10:34 · Score: 1

Frigging means fingering a woman, thats how I always understood it.

In usage its just like saying "fucking", i.e some people thing you have to say it at least once per sentence!

--
Bush and Blair ate my sig!
Re:Their own dumbass fault by tomhudson · 2003-09-26 10:37 · Score: 1

The difference in ratios isn't that much. I remember back in th '70s the ps broke on one of my cars, and after fixing the Ford POS once, said "fuck it" (bought new, broke after 2 years, then broke again). Wasn't that big a deal (there was no diff. except for parking lots).
Re:Their own dumbass fault by BLAMM! · 2003-09-26 10:43 · Score: 1

Not so fast there, bub. As it so happens, this little flaw has been known for some time now. Pete Abrams was the first to break the story over 6 months ago, and its a lot more serious than simply falling over.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by DWIM · 2003-09-26 11:08 · Score: 1

On most cars, the "e-brake", is connected to the same brake mechanism in the rear wheel, so if the brake really did fail, the "e-brake" would fail as well.
When the brakes fail on most cars, it is a failure of the hydraulic system (a failure of the master cylinder, low level of brake fluid, overheating of brake fluid, etc.). Emergency brakes engage the rear brake via a brake cable, providing a redundant system for engaging the rear brakes for use in emergencies. Only if your actual brakes (pads, discs, calipers) malfunction do you still have that problem when trying to use the emergency brake. But even then, it would be rare indeed to have those kinds of problems on more than one wheel at a time, so your normal brake pedal would still be able to engage the remaining brakes in that situation.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by kasperd · 2003-09-26 11:11 · Score: 1

Using analogies on Slashdot is like comparing apples and oranges.

Comparing apples and oranges is not a problem.

--

Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
Re:Their own dumbass fault by _avs_007 · 2003-09-26 11:28 · Score: 1

It would really suck tho if only one of your brakes decided to hose up on you... That could result in a crash when you apply the brake in an emergency situation. (Especially if it was one of the front brakes that hosed up on you...)

Also, it is not true about all emergency brakes utilizing a cable to connect to the rear brakes. Some 4 wheel-disc application, require you to "ratchet" the e-brake, which in turn just pressurizes the hydraulic line for the rear brakes. IIRC, usually only 4 wheel discs that provide a cute little drum inside the rotor assembly, utilize a cable for the e-brake system. 4 Wheel disc systems that don't provide this cute drum, and don't require you to ratchet the e-brake, physically lock the pistons in the caliper after engaging hydraulically(sometimes mechanically). (That's why you need a special tool to reset the piston when changing the rear discs on some cars.)

Many luxury cars dont even have a e-brake peddle, they replaced them with a push button, which just pressurizes the rear hydraulic line. (Jaguar S-types do this)
Re:Their own dumbass fault by Dun+Malg · 2003-09-26 16:46 · Score: 1

So, why not wheelie bars, like on a dragster, front and back. That way when the whiz-bang technology fails, you have a common sense mechanical backup.
Personally, I never saw a rational reason for the two-wheel design of the damn thing. I suspect kamen made it a silly balancing two-wheeler with no third point of contact for the dumbest reason of all: because he could. His wheelchair design is great. It can balance on two wheels to climb stairs and curbs, but notice that it spends most of its time on FOUR wheels. Kamen is a typical Genius-Dumbass. So enamored is he with his own cleverness that he totally disregards common sense and overlooks what look to me to be obvious safety issues.

--
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by danila · 2003-09-27 03:27 · Score: 1

That's why it's a voluntary recall. If one of the ~6000 Segway users hurts his head, it's better to fix this now and do a recall, instead of waiting to sell millions of these and then dealing with tens of people dead and thousands injured per year. ;)

Kudos to Segway folks for doing this.

--
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
Re:Their own dumbass fault by wren337 · 2003-09-29 08:33 · Score: 1

If you search around you can find a GM prototype fuelcell car platform that looks like a skateboard with wheels. the body snaps on top, and it is drive by wire/steer by wire. no mechanical linkages whatsoever.

Oh well... by evel+aka+matt · 2003-09-26 06:28 · Score: 5, Funny

It looks like there's going to be 3 very dissapointed people out there.

Re:Oh well... by JediTrainer · 2003-09-26 06:52 · Score: 1

According to what I've read, there's been 3 injuries. I guess ALL THREE owners got hurt, prompting the recall.

100% injury rate. Not good for business.

--

You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
Re:Oh well... by Zigg · 2003-09-26 06:59 · Score: 1

Yes, it does stand to reason that ALL THREE injured owners got hurt, if three out of three of them did.

Also, a 100% injury rate would be "ride a Segway, get injured".

Perhaps you meant to say something else?
Re:Oh well... by robogun · 2003-09-26 07:31 · Score: 1

It's true... How many Segways have you seen going down the street (not in some publicity stunt). I have seen exactly ONE. And to be honest, a grown man looks odd on these, much like when they ride any other type of scooter.
They'd be great for kids, but how many parents are going to get their kids $5,000 toys, especially ones that crash as much as these.
These things get much more press than they deserve. I think it comes from guilty media trying to live up to buying into the "It" hype. Remember in 1999 months of hype. " 'It' is going to change how cities are built," I recall. It's just a scooter.
Re:Oh well... by Lord_Dweomer · 2003-09-26 08:17 · Score: 1

I actually saw one of these people in Uptown in Minneapolis last weekend. I was stopped at a red light with my friends, saw him cross the street, and saw the crowd of coeds on the other corner look at him as he passed, and then burst into hysterical laughter. Yeah....this thing'll make you a total chick magnet.

--
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Re:Oh well... by madcow_ucsb · 2003-09-26 08:31 · Score: 1

I saw one guy riding one at IDF last week. And while he drew quite a crowd, we all agreed that he looked utterly ridiculous on there.
Re:Oh well... by mrd_yaddayadda · 2003-09-26 18:00 · Score: 1

If you're buying a toy of any sort, be it segway, car or an extra pair of socks for in the trousers to act as a chick magnet then you've got no hope.
Re:Oh well... by Fjornir · 2003-09-26 19:21 · Score: 1

robogun, I live in Seattle and work in Redmond -- and I see them in operation more or less daily. I'd buy one myself if the bus system out here had accommodations for them, but until then I'm sticking with my bike.
For the record -- I didn't crash on my first Segway ride, and have never seen a crash except for one resulting from a passenger-side door opening close to the sidewalk. I'll admit it took me almost five minutes to get over my "beginner wobble", but after that it was rock solid.
Have you tried one yet? They're extra-special nifty.

--
I want a new world. I think this one is broken.
Re:Oh well... by danila · 2003-09-27 03:31 · Score: 1

Personally I wouldn't want to attrack chicks who laugh at Segways anyway. :) So not a big deal if a bunch of stupid bimbos can't control themselves and laugh at you.

--
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
Re:Oh well... by robogun · 2003-09-27 06:21 · Score: 1

To be honest, they look like they'd be fun to ride. But the barrier to entry is a little stiff. If you're looking for a fun ride, an ATV which cost less than half of a Segway is much better, particularly in the wide-open desert and sand dunes. In the city the bike is faster and also better exercise, and is also good off-road.

I'll look at Segway when the price drops and I find myself in an urban, campus or other closed-loop situation which makes them practical.
Re:Oh well... by Fjornir · 2003-09-27 07:13 · Score: 1

They're definately fun to ride -- if there's a dealer in your area I'd heartily recommend you check it out, even if only on the New Mercedes Principle (I'd never buy this, but it's still fun to try it out...)
As to the barrier of entry, that's a matter of perception. All told a Segway does everything a car would do for me (I'm an urbanite, YMMV), and I'd expect to spend a rather large amount more on a new car than I would on a Segway. So given that (in my case) they're (almost) functionally equivalent, and one's a hell of a lot cheaper... *shrug* Even factoring in rental car costs, etc. the Segway is almost perfect for me -- if I could only link it into my longer commute.
Sure, my bike (after customization, mods, etc) is about a fifth of the price of a Segway, and is better exercise besides -- not to mention that it goes on the busses, I still wish I could just lean my way to the corner store and back when I want the second six-pack. Also, have you seen the hills in Seattle? You want to attack that on a bike? You're a brave soul!
Love, Luck, and Lollipops,
Fjornir

--
I want a new world. I think this one is broken.

Help! I've fallen and I can't get up! by hpulley · 2003-09-26 06:29 · Score: 1

Seriously, though, this is a problem with most vehicles when they run out of fuel/charge. No battery guage on a Segway, I assume or just user error?

--
$#!^ happens, but why does it always have to happen to me???

size? by Lxy · 2003-09-26 06:29 · Score: 2, Funny

Does this have anything to do with the size of the rider? If you continually fall off your Segway, maybe it's just a sign to GET OFF AND WALK for awhile.

--

There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq

$30M! by JohnGrahamCumming · 2003-09-26 06:29 · Score: 5, Informative

Perhaps the most interesting thing in this recall is that it provides information
about the total number of Segway's out there: 6,000. Given that Amazon
sells them about $5,000 that means that there are $30M of Segways out there.
Of course many were probably sold below that price and Segway LLC will be sharing
that with the retailer, but still not bad for scooter.

Second, interesting thing is that the problem is fixed by a *software upgrade*
and not something physical.

John.

Re:$30M! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-26 06:34 · Score: 1, Insightful

I think most were sold for fleet use at a volume discount.
Re:$30M! by ispel · 2003-09-26 06:39 · Score: 1

Second, interesting thing is that the problem is fixed by a *software upgrade*
and not something physical.

I imagine that the "software upgrade" turns off the device earlier in a low-power situation.
Re:$30M! by nocomment · 2003-09-26 06:40 · Score: 1

Well duh, they always have to play for the lowest common denominator[1]. So what they will do is make it so that you can't ride it after the batteries get too low.

[1]see: ID 10T

--
/* oops I accidentally made a comment, sorry */
/* http://allyourbasearebelongto.us */
Re:$30M! by robklaus · 2003-09-26 06:53 · Score: 1

Second, interesting thing is that the problem is fixed by a *software upgrade* and not something physical.
Seems like the *only* thing to do would be to lock the user out of the machine if power levels drop too much. Its surprising that they would not have thought of this problem prior to releasing the product.
Re:$30M! by NaugaHunter · 2003-09-26 06:55 · Score: 1

I would guess the software upgrade watches for the battery to get below a certain level and then prevents it from running at all. At least that's the simplest solution - and it may be that it was already included, but the setting was too low. For example, on their test courses with experienced riders they could skillfully handle stopping on a low battery level, but Joe Segway-Buyer keeps riding full throttle no matter what.

--
R: That voice. Where have I heard that voice before? B: In about 365 other episodes. But I don't know who it is either.
Re:$30M! by samsmithnz · 2003-09-26 07:23 · Score: 1

I honestly know not a lot about Segways, but another point is that the 6000 segways recalled are all certain models. Now these may be all released models in production, but it may be that its the first 80% of production, meaning there could be another couple 1000 of these around. Of course, most of these 6000 +/-1000 Segways were probably given away anyway.
Re:$30M! by madfgurtbn · 2003-09-26 08:46 · Score: 1

Second, interesting thing is that the problem is fixed by a *software upgrade*
and not something physical.

I believe one of the most significant aspects of the SHT as a technology is that it is basically a robot. There is no mechanical connection between the rider's input and the behavior of the vehicle. A car must turn left when you turn the steering wheel left; there is no such mechanical connection in the SHT, so the behavior of the vehicle is entirely programmable--they could program it to turn left when you turn the wheel to the right or control the accelration, braking and other handling characteristics (up to the physical limits of the hardware), entirely in the software.

That's one reason the SHT is not just another scooter. It would be relatively trivial for a programmer with access to the code to hack the SHT to do things like control by GPS or maybe network a flock of them with wi-fi to play soccer cooperatively or even possibly do something useful.

--
Send lawyers, guns, and money. Dad, get me out of this.
Re:$30M! by killermal · 2003-09-26 09:57 · Score: 1

Let's pray that Microsoft never release a scooter then.

[OT] Please help... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-26 06:30 · Score: 2, Funny

I am a fisherman, and I fish out in the North Sea, near oil-rigs. I mainly fish for crabs but generally sell anything I catch. On my small boat is a laptop with Linux installed, which is running open source software for controlling the electronical fishing rods, which hauntingly swing and sway above the cold blue surface of the sea.

While I find being able to administer my fiashing rods from the powerful BASH shell both efficient, safe and empowering, this software has a bug which causes a huge 20 farad capacitor in the rod to discharge into the ocean at random intervals. The voltage induced is so large that it causes various potentially hazardous metals to be come electroplated to the hull of my ship. Often by the time I reach harbour my ship is so laden with electrolysed metal that it is barely bouyant, and occasionally I am not allowed entry.

This is killing my buisnes. While I love the ideals of Linux, the inherent instability is not tolerable. So I am asking, are there any quality fishing-rod control programs available for Windows or Apple operating systems?

Thanks in advance... sorry for the OT-ness...

Re:[OT] Please help... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-26 07:01 · Score: 1, Funny

Dear Sir,

Although I am not an expert in fishing software, I would like to suggest a superior solution. In particular, our spincast combo needs no software. We also have an entire line of software-free fishing products including nets and tackle equipment.

Sincerely,
Shakespeare Esq.

That reminds me... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-26 06:30 · Score: 5, Funny

As the great philosopher xterm once wrote,

<xterm> The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

Re:That reminds me... by Snard · 2003-09-26 06:41 · Score: 2, Funny

Or as Larry Niven would say, "Think of it as evolution in action."

--
- Mike
Re:That reminds me... by Cacophony · 2003-09-26 17:40 · Score: 1

I disagree with that statement. I believe the problem with America is that everyone wants to blame or make someone else pay for there own stupid mistakes.

It's the same as with the recent fast food law suits...It can be the individuals fault that they got fat. Who the hell doesn't know that fast food isn't good for you. It's your own darn fault...either deal with it or fix, I don't want to hear your bitching.

-Al
Re:That reminds me... by danila · 2003-09-27 03:35 · Score: 2, Interesting

Everyone makes mistakes. Hell, just a few minutes ago I got an ICQ from my sister, who was frightened by the noises her CD drive was making. Well, it turned out she put a second disk there without taking the first one out. :) She isn't stupid, she knows very well CD drives don't work with 2 disks, she knows they don't work with floppies either, she knows how to burn CDs, etc.

She just didn't notice that because the computer is under her table.

That's why it's important to design fool-proof products. Not because all people are fools, but because all people make mistakes!

--
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.

Imagery by Improv · 2003-09-26 06:31 · Score: 5, Funny

I love the imagery involved in this..
*VROOM* *VROOM* *put* *put* *put* *creeeeek* *thump* OW!

Heh

--
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.

Re:Imagery by IIRCAFAIKIANAL · 2003-09-26 06:58 · Score: 2, Funny

I prefer the imagery I receive from this choice quote:

"The machine's creator, Dean Kamen, wants to see US Special Forces troops eventually ride Segways into battle. "

My brain is associating the images with "Ride of the Valkyrie" too :D

--
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
Re:Imagery by jared_hanson · 2003-09-26 07:12 · Score: 1

"The machine's creator, Dean Kamen, wants to see US Special Forces troops eventually ride Segways into battle. "

This reminds me of a clip I saw on Letterman during the first Gulf war. An Iraqi soldier was riding on an osterich. I'd suggest to Kamen that using his idea would give the enemy a distinct advantage.

--
-- Fighting mediocrity one bad post at a time.
Re:Imagery by British · 2003-09-26 07:25 · Score: 1

I'm sure with all the equipment soldiers carry the Segway will top out at about 1 mph.

But the positive side is that enemy troops will be distracted from laughing so hard seeing our troops ride them into battle.

Nope, I think the Hummer will win this round.
Re:Imagery by sharkey · 2003-09-26 09:58 · Score: 1

My brain is associating the images with "Ride of the Valkyrie" too
Does it segue (ha) into "Waterloo" by ABBA, like Mr. Burns' copy that Smithers taped over?

--

--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.

All these rich people falling on their faces by digitalgimpus · 2003-09-26 06:31 · Score: 4, Funny

Damn. Nobody ever recalled a poor boy's bicycle because it fall sideways when the riders energy runs out.

Re:All these rich people falling on their faces by Zimm · 2003-09-26 07:11 · Score: 1

Damn. Nobody ever recalled a poor boy's bicycle because it fall sideways when the riders energy runs out.

Good point actually. And since my bicycle is better then a segway in every way I can think of, i'll stick with the bike. Come to think of it the segway has got to be the most overhyped product in recent history. A solution looking for a problem? Anyone know what a good application is? What does it have over moped, bicycle,electric bicycle, roller blades, walking, etc?
Re:All these rich people falling on their faces by gaspyy · 2003-09-26 17:05 · Score: 1

This is modded Funny, but I think it's Insightful.

The bike is not exactly a safe mode of transporation, but I don't see any public outcry, mothers demanding bikes to be banned, Fox making a two-hour show on the horror of bike accidents and CPSC recalling them.

Where's Nader? by pegr__ · 2003-09-26 06:31 · Score: 1

Unsafe at any speed!

Re:Help! I've fallen and I can't get up! by revividus · 2003-09-26 06:32 · Score: 2, Funny

Segway Error 404:
Battery Not Found.

--

philcrissman.com.

Re:Help! I've fallen and I can't get up! by hpulley · 2003-09-26 06:32 · Score: 1

I mean, how far can you go after you get an 'alert'? Can you drive it home to recharge it or do you have to beg for an electrical outlet so you don't have to drag your heavy, expensive, silly toy home?

--
$#!^ happens, but why does it always have to happen to me???

George W by bombadillo · 2003-09-26 06:33 · Score: 1, Redundant

Maybe this is what caused ole "W" to fall off his segway. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2989000. stm Was it his batteries or his ineptness? Something tells me it wasn't the batteries....

Re:George W by PostConsumerRecycled · 2003-09-26 06:54 · Score: 2, Informative

IIRC Dubya forgot to turn it on in the the first place.

--

There is no dark side of the moon really, matter of fact it's all dark

No Duh, the device is unstable by nweaver · 2003-09-26 06:33 · Score: 5, Informative

The Solution in Search of a Problem that is the Segway is inherantly unstable, and has to burn power just to stand still (balancing at an unstable equilibrium point).

That when the power starts to drain, the device becomes unstable (as the motors no longer have enough power to keep it upright after a mild upset) is hardly suprising, and indicitive of the fundimentally stupid design (but fantastic engineering) that is the segway.

--
Test your net with Netalyzr

Re:No Duh, the device is unstable by product+byproduct · 2003-09-26 06:44 · Score: 2, Insightful

Bicycles are unstable too.

In other news...

"The CPSC has announced a voluntary recall of all bicycles. The hazard is that under certain operating conditions, particularly when the bicycle isn't moving, the lack of angular momentum to stabilize the device allows the rider to fall. This can happen if the rider slows down abruptly."
Re:No Duh, the device is unstable by jd_esguerra · 2003-09-26 14:49 · Score: 1

Bikes are "unstable" too, but the control system (the rider) will rarely fail. The segway plant is open-loop unstable about the normal operating point (upright), but stable about that point when a control loop is wrapped around the inertial sensors. If the control system fails, and the feedback loop is opened (or broken) the operating point about the "vertical" state becomes unstable, and hilarity ensues.

Another issue (the relevent one) is if the plant or compensation system changes: Like when the batteries die and the control effort can't be met.

My favorite Segway issue though, is one that I have yet to see in the news: What the hell happens when a segway hits something near the ground (like a dog), pitching the rider CG forward? Wouldn't this just cause the segway to accelerate even harder in the direction of whatever it hit?
Re:No Duh, the device is unstable by danila · 2003-09-27 03:45 · Score: 1

With most helicopters you can use auto-rotation to land more or less safely when the engine fails. Some planes (probably the minority) can glide to a relatively safe landing, but that's more difficult because they need a long runway to land.

--
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.

In other news: by Dark+Lord+Seth · 2003-09-26 06:34 · Score: 5, Funny

This can happen if the rider speeds up abruptly, encounters an obstacle, or continues to ride after receiving a low-battery alert.

Toyota recalled all cars manafactured since the start of the company. Under certain circumstances, when speeding up, ignoring a warning about a cliff and not braking, the car might fall down from a great heigth and kill the occupants. According to Hiyasuka Miamoto, official Toyota spokesperson, the recall will be effective immediately and no new cars will be produced "untill people stop being so fucking stupid!".

Moral of the story; warnings are called warnings for a reason.

--
Hate me!

Re:In other news: by kfg · 2003-09-26 06:56 · Score: 1

". . . no new cars will be produced "untill people stop being so fucking stupid!"."

So they're having a going out of business sale?

KFG
Re:In other news: by kaltkalt · 2003-09-26 06:59 · Score: 1

Assumption of risk is no defense. It used to be, but courts have forgone the doctrine because people are just too stupid to knowingly (that's the magic word) assume a risk, whether it be assuming the risk of injury by smoking cigarettes or by playing russian roulette with an "empty" gun. People need to be protected from themselves, and making everything idiotproof and banning that which cannot be made idiotproof is the only way to save people. Human life come first, because human lives pay taxes, and healthy functional humans tend to earn more, thus paying more taxes.

--

Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
Re:In other news: by Le+Marteau · 2003-09-26 07:05 · Score: 1

Fact: Power brakes are just an 'assist'. The brakes (and steering for that matter) still work even if the engine dies, you just have to press harder on the brakes.

--
Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
Re:In other news: by kfg · 2003-09-26 07:14 · Score: 1

"There goes your karma."

Q.E.D.

KFG
Re:In other news: by geekoid · 2003-09-26 07:17 · Score: 1

How does being stupid accoutn for "...rider speeds up abruptly, encounters an obstacle, ..."?

sur, the running out of power is stupid, but everything I read about the Segwa certianly indicated it could go over obsticals and you can speed up or slow down all you want without falling off. Granted, there may be something in the manual about that, I don't know because I don't own one.

--
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Re:In other news: by kalidasa · 2003-09-26 09:10 · Score: 1

I believe the stupid part is "after receiving a low-battery warning."
Re:In other news: by kaltkalt · 2003-09-26 10:34 · Score: 1

But those children will produce taxes. Having your slaves reproduce is a good thing. Sure, those kids may end up in prison costing tax dollars, but the chances are they will not end up in prison their entire lives, and will produce more in taxes than they cost. Those are just the odds. That's why the "state has an interest" in preventing an abortion once a fetus reaches the point of viability, per Roe v. Wade.

--

Stupid people make stupid things profitable.

One step further? by gregarican · 2003-09-26 06:34 · Score: 1

I wonder how much longer all of those Rascals and Lark old-people scooters will be around before getting recalled. As shown on "Jackass," if an old person is going down the courthouse steps or down a hilly sidewalk on one and the batteries are low they are begging for a hip replacement.

Let'em walk! by mr_resident · 2003-09-26 06:34 · Score: 2, Interesting

As much as I love seeing rich people fall on their faces, I hate seeing technology fail because of poor testing.

Why didn't this come up before now? Because ravenous marketing monsters couldn't wait to start selling "THE NEXT BIG THING".

Even if they were reasonably priced, I can't see what they're really good for anyway. They're too fast for sidewalks, too slow for streets and let the world know you've got more money than sense!

Re:Let'em walk! by MCZapf · 2003-09-26 06:50 · Score: 1

How on earth are they going to fix this problem? It seems impossible to me. If the batteries are too low, there's nothing you can do to keep the thing operating - unless you have it refuse to move when the batteries are too low. But then wouldn't the driver fall over anyway, from leaning forward trying to accelerate?
Re:Let'em walk! by glitch! · 2003-09-26 07:17 · Score: 1

If the batteries are too low, there's nothing you can do to keep the thing operating

Sure there is, just add a small 2-stroke engine and generator to automatically charge up the battery. Ideally, it would run at 20,000 RPM, burn model airplane fuel, and have no muffler. (I know what you are about to say, and my answer is, "yes, that's the point!")

--
A dingo ate my sig...

For that matter it's a miracle by spatley · 2003-09-26 06:35 · Score: 1

That this is the first recall of the Segway. For a product of this complexity, there are bound to be some bugs showing up, and this one seems pretty minor.

So let me get this straight... by Mysticalfruit · 2003-09-26 06:35 · Score: 2, Insightful

So, I'm riding along on my self powered segway that battery powered gyros to keep itself upright and I get a low battery warning and I ignore it. Then I get all upset when the thing pitches me off like a ragdoll to test the local dirt.

Hmm, I think that S in CPSC should be for Stupidity...

Note to stupid people... Firstly, if you've got too much money, I can help you with this problem ;-)
Secondly, I highly recommend you never get fitted with a pace maker... as you expire your dying words will be something like "Damn, I guess the doctor wasn't lying, the battery really is only good for 5 years..."

--
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.

Re:So let me get this straight... by edwdig · 2003-09-26 07:11 · Score: 1

The Segway is a mode of transportation that requires power.

A car is a mode of transportation that requires power.

When the low power light goes on on a Segway, it means "Stop using it now or you'll get hurt."

When the low gas (power) light goes on on a car, it means "Refill the gas tank when you get a chance. It doesn't have to be immediately, but fairly soon."

I'm sure that most people using the Segway expect the low power light to operate similar to how it does in a car.

I wouldn't be surprised if the main point of the software upgrade was to make the low battery light come on sooner.

Segway updating by Tumbleweed · 2003-09-26 06:36 · Score: 1

Okay, so hopefully the next generation of Segways will have a little USB port so you can do your own firmware updating.

Re:Segway updating by IIRCAFAIKIANAL · 2003-09-26 07:01 · Score: 1

No, you just want to put linux on the damn thing, don't you? ;]

--
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
Re:Segway updating by Tumbleweed · 2003-09-26 07:08 · Score: 1

No way - the Segway is _clearly_ a BSD-deserving platform. Especially when the battery ... GOES DEAD! "SYSTEM ERROR: BDS/SEGWAY BATTERY IS DYING. ALL USERS LOGOFF NOW!"

shutdown -rn now

Someone should also put a little LCD monitor on it and then port MAME to it.

Obviously... by TopShelf · 2003-09-26 06:36 · Score: 1

They need to put airbags on those things - someone could get hurt!

--
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more

They've only sold 6000 of the things? by Solandri · 2003-09-26 06:36 · Score: 1

If they've only sold 6000, why does it seem everything the company does is announced to half a billion people via the national and world news outlets?

Re:They've only sold 6000 of the things? by moehoward · 2003-09-26 06:45 · Score: 1

Boeing or whoever has only sold 6 Space Shuttles. But look at the press they get. Go figure.

Even the Space Shuttle recalls get more press. I don't have a Space Shuttle so I just choose to ignore all the hoopla.

--
"If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
Re:They've only sold 6000 of the things? by Animats · 2003-09-26 08:18 · Score: 1

Good point.
I'm surprised they've sold that many. There's one for sale on eBay, time is running out on the item, and nobody has bid. Of course, there's a big "minimum bid" almost the same as the "buy it now" price, so it's not really an auction.

Notice the numbers? by Lizard_King · 2003-09-26 06:36 · Score: 1

Units: Approximately 6,000

That's pretty sad given the original estimates from a few years ago.

--
"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." - Jack Nicholson

Re:Notice the numbers? by JaredOfEuropa · 2003-09-26 06:46 · Score: 4, Funny

Yes, I think we can put off 'redesigning our cities' for a bit, untill they sell a few more of them.

--
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...

Sad News -- Segway Scooter dead at 2 by orthogonal · 2003-09-26 06:37 · Score: 1

I just heard some sad news on talk radio - revolutionary personal transportation system/overpriced, underpowered gimmick the Segway Human Transporter was found dead at the Consumer Product Safety Commission this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss it - even if you didn't buy it or buy into the hype about it, there's no denying^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H it's easy to deny its contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.

--
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?

Re:Help! I've fallen and I can't get up! by Cranx · 2003-09-26 06:37 · Score: 1

Are you saying that if my car battery runs out of juice, I can expect to be picking up my teeth out from between the subway grating?

Re:recall just for batteries?? by El · 2003-09-26 06:37 · Score: 4, Insightful

You misunderstand the market for this device. It is basically a wheelchair targeted at old people that can't walk very well, but still would rather be in a standing position (because, let's face it, most of the world is set up for people of average height). Young people are not going to buy them because they are too slow and too expensive. However, the same people that consider riding a golf cart around a golf course to be good exercise just might buy or rent them...

--

"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

Society gets dumber by the minute by Daimaou · 2003-09-26 06:38 · Score: 4, Funny

In other news, bicycles around the world have been voluntarily recalled. It seems that if the rider stops moving their feet, the bike could potentially tip over. A minor flaying of the skin has also been reported to occur during such accidents.

Re:Society gets dumber by the minute by cybermace5 · 2003-09-26 06:50 · Score: 2, Interesting

Well, the point is that the Segway is supposed to do all the balancing for you.

Honestly, the first time I saw Segway I thought, "What happens when you're chugging up a hill and the batteries give out?" It's inherently unstable, unlike a bicycle there is no gyroscopic force to aid the rider in maintaining balance.

The software upgrade probably just gives the Segway less optimism about its battery life, providing a more aggressive alert when the battery reaches a certain level.

--
...
Re:Society gets dumber by the minute by bloosqr · 2003-09-26 07:00 · Score: 1

This is nothing like your bike example. On a bike you know that it is going to tip over when you stop. W/ the segway there is a possibility that if you press the acceleration the thing will die even w/out a warning light! They are obviously setting the "warning light" to go on way too late, hitting the acceleration shouldn't make the thing die ever w/out a warning.
Re:Society gets dumber by the minute by titzandkunt · 2003-09-26 07:07 · Score: 1

"It's inherently unstable, unlike a bicycle there is no gyroscopic force to aid the rider in maintaining balance."

Gyroscopic forces have approximately fuck all to do with the bicycle/rider system remaining upright. A bicycle is, essentially, constantly falling over. Minor corrections to the bike's track by the rider serve to keep the whole thing balanced. See rec.bicycles.tech for more info...

T&K.

--
Political language ... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable...
Re:Society gets dumber by the minute by kfg · 2003-09-26 07:11 · Score: 4, Informative

To be fair to the parent poster at the point the bicycle falls over from lack of speed it too has no gyroscopic forces to aid the rider.

That's one of the reasons it falls over, because it is inherently unstable.

His point stands.

(Of course there are courses of action a cyclist can take to prevent falling over. I can stay essentially motionless on a bicycle for an arbitrary amount of time. It's easier on a track bike which has direct drive like a child's tricycle. Rider skill can be substituted for gyroscopic effect, which on a bicycle is really minimal even at speed. The castor effect is far stronger, as is just plain "body English" since the rider's weight exerts much greater force than the gyroscopic forces. Thinking of a unicycle can give a better intuitive idea of this, as they never operate at enough speed for gyroscopic effects to have any import, and if you stop pedaling they fall right over, because they are inherently unstable. Yes, I'm a bit of an expert in the field, a frame building, racing physicist who's first real research project was on the stability of bicycles and currently works on human powered machinery)

KFG
Re:Society gets dumber by the minute by cybermace5 · 2003-09-26 07:20 · Score: 1

Ah, but did I say how the gyroscopic force works?

It does play a part. Think how a gyroscope works: when the wheel is tilted in one axis, it will want to tilt in the other axis. When the front bicycle wheel tilts sideways, the wheel turns in the direction of tilt, which moves the center of gravity back over the path of travel. This doesn't correct all possible balance problems (especially at low speed), but it does correct a lot of the minor ones, and provides the rider with a physical cue for action which eventually is done reflexively.

This is why it's much easier to ride a bike at full speed, and even without using your hands at all. It also explains why a wheel by itself will roll upright unsupported until the speed goes down.

--
...
Re:Society gets dumber by the minute by Jellybob · 2003-09-26 07:31 · Score: 1

Dunno why, but when you said "providing a more aggressive alert when the battery reaches a certain level." I had an image of it hitting you in the chest.

[-1: Fucking stupid.]
Re:Society gets dumber by the minute by Zathrus · 2003-09-26 07:36 · Score: 1

n other news, bicycles around the world have been voluntarily recalled. It seems that if the rider stops moving their feet, the bike could potentially tip over.

There's a difference between a gradual decline and a sudden one. If you're bicycling at a reasonable speed and stop pedaling then you're not going to suddenly fall over -- inertia and balance will keep that from happening. Anyone who's bicycled for more than an hour or two knows this, and can tell when they're going to fall well before it occurs (barring loss of traction or obstacles...), and you're unlikely to have a "minor flaying of the skin" unless the frame is too big or you fall onto something painful (and yes, I have the scar to prove that the combination of those is bad).

In the case of the Segway, however, you've given balance over to the machine (which is good since it'd be pretty damn difficult for you to balance it yourself -- some people could, most could not, and the acceleration/deceleration method would have to be changed completely). So when it experiences a power failure there is no gradual degredation of service -- your ass is thrown off instantly. Better yet, the faster you're moving the quicker the Segway is going to lose balance. And if you were going 20 mph prior to this you're likely to experience quite a bit more than a "minor flaying" at that speed.
Re:Society gets dumber by the minute by cybermace5 · 2003-09-26 07:37 · Score: 1

I think my point was that the Segway at no point has stability inherent to its mechanical design. Without the motors running, it'll slip out from under you instantly. If you stop pedaling your bike, you'll coast to a controlled stop. You also have more of a choice in the matter....

See above for my comments on the gyroscopic effect as one (of several) aiding the rolling stability of a bicycle.

--
...
Re:Society gets dumber by the minute by thebigmacd · 2003-09-26 08:43 · Score: 1

You know nothing about the segway.

You lean forward to accelerate.

Obviously, if you lean forward and it doesnt have enough power left, you fall forward.
Re:Society gets dumber by the minute by kfg · 2003-09-26 09:11 · Score: 1

Imagine a "unicycle" with side by side wheels. Such have actually been built. Anyone who can ride a unicycle can learn to ride one of these in an afternoon.The Segway has a good deal of stability in its mechanical design, it's just that that stability is side to side rather than fore and aft. Gyroscopic effects aid in the side to side stability since the Segway has wheels. It gains stability fore and aft because to rotate around its axles it must overcome the resistive force of its drive train. Apply and equal and opposite force with your body weight and it remains upright.

People can balance. It is one of their defining properties as bipeds.

Stand on one leg if you don't believe me.

There are people who can stand on one leg on a bowling ball which has even less inherent stability than a Segway.

When the batteries begin to go flat on a Segway everything doesn't just grind to a sudden halt. It slows down.Drive an electic R/C car for a practical example of this phenomenon. Nor does the Segway as whole, or its gyroscope as an individual componant, suddenly lose all of its momentum. Each coast to a halt ( although against resisitive forces, such as you might generate on a coasting bicycle by "riding" the brakes a bit).

One of the advantages of the standing riding position of the Segway and its lack of fore/aft stability is that when it slows down and/or stops one can simply step off, like from a skateboard. This is aided by the fact that the Segway travels at a pitifully slow speed to begin with compared to a bicycle. Flat out it's going at a jog. It's low speed is actually one of its selling points.

You can't just step off of a bicycle when it falls. I know. I have the scar tissue and broken bones to prove it.

I step off of skateboards all the time. Not a scratch. But then I don't do stupid tricks on a skateboard and never ride one faster than I could. . . a Segway, which is going at less than walking speed when it loses stability due it's batteries going flat.

And at walking speed a bicycle gains no significant righting forces from anything other than a human being's innate ability to remain upright.

If you continue to ride a Segway after its low battery light comes on and fail to simply step off when it slows and somehow fail to simply remain standing up somehow when it finally loses stability, this isn't because of something inherent in the Segway.

It's something inherent in you.

To wit, you're a dumbass with no sense of balance.

A client who is a dumbass without the basic skills of survival, like being able to stand up unassisted on a device which requires such, has never been a deterent to a lawyer filing a suit, however, hence the recall.

KFG
Re:Society gets dumber by the minute by cybermace5 · 2003-09-26 10:48 · Score: 1

I don't think you understand. The Segway uses a network of processors, accelerometers, and gyroscopes to perform a continous inverse kinematics calculation involving many variables, such as passenger weight, differing wheel speeds, shifts in the center of gravity, wheel traction, and acceleration.

The Segway is continously monitoring and powering the motors in thrust and drag modes to maintain a range of angular positions of the passenger. What is happening is that the Segway is apparently going along fine, when a sudden circumstance requires a high current pulse to the drive wheels in order to maintain the correct passenger pitch. That current pulse is not available, because the Segway software did not have a correct idea of the current battery level and capabilities, and did not limit the Segway operating parameters so that it can't get into a non-recoverable situation.

The Segway's intent is to remove the need to balance from the the passenger's control. The Segway does not just slow down to a safe and balanced halt in these situations; the PID loop goes into complete runaway and the passenger suddenly finds themselves on the ground. Sure, many people could manage balancing on an unpowered Segway, if they had enough practice. But to suddenly go into a nonpowered state is a situation that normal human reaction times cannot cope with.

The effect would be almost exactly like being blindfolded, and being told to walk into a certain direction. Then you are told to run, and as you are accelerating you step onto a patch of ice. Totally unprepared, you will fall down. You get the same result if you were told to run in a direction and then slow down suddenly, and there was a patch of ice there too.

--
...
Re:Society gets dumber by the minute by SeanAhern · 2003-09-26 11:18 · Score: 1

Of course there are courses of action a cyclist can take to prevent falling over. I can stay essentially motionless on a bicycle for an arbitrary amount of time.

<mode type="smartass">

So can I!

(puts one foot on ground.)

</mode>
Re:Society gets dumber by the minute by kfg · 2003-09-26 11:53 · Score: 1

"I don't think you understand. The Segway uses a network of processors, accelerometers, and gyroscopes to perform a continous inverse kinematics calculation involving many variables, such as passenger weight, differing wheel speeds, shifts in the center of gravity, wheel traction, and acceleration.

Yes, I have designed analogous systems for electric cars. . .and bicycles, since my research on their stability required such. Perhaps I simply wrote my software better.

"You get the same result if you were told to run in a direction and then slow down suddenly, and there was a patch of ice there too."

The same can happen on a bicycle even without the slowing down part. Again I can attest to this personally, since I ride year round in the northeast. Because a bicycle is inherently unstable, even at speed and with all the gyroscopic forces in place.

Which is where I came in to this movie. :)

KFG
Re:Society gets dumber by the minute by cybermace5 · 2003-09-26 12:23 · Score: 1

But the Segway differs in that the axis of instability is perpendicular to the direction of travel, not parallel. The center of gravity about that axis cannot be shifted easily by slight steering corrections.

Therefore I pose that the Segway is at fault for people falling off of it, not the riders.

--
...
Re:Society gets dumber by the minute by kfg · 2003-09-26 13:43 · Score: 1

And I pose that people fall off bicycles in similar conditions (Yep, I've seen people fall over because their energy got low)and that balance on both is maintained by balance, not steering.

And maybe the guy who had to get stitches in his head will wear a helmet from now on.

We disagree. It happens.

KFG
Re:Society gets dumber by the minute by jd_esguerra · 2003-09-26 15:56 · Score: 1

Yes, I'm a bit of an expert in the field

So you know that there is no such thing as an unstable system (in a mathematically rigorous sense). ;-) Just wanted to point out that you can still have a stable vertical operating point on a "stopped" unicycle, if the wheel is rigidly attached to the floor for example. The corrective action would then be whatever torque was necessary to keep the rider in the desired position. So instead of moving the bike beneath the rider (like an inverted pendulum on a translating cart), the rider would be moving above the pivot point. It a two state model versus a four state model.

Re:Ohhh.... by BandwidthHog · 2003-09-26 06:38 · Score: 1

I shudder to think what would happen if a teleporter lost power halfway through the journey.

You might end up the ultimate personification of those endless "In Soviet Russia..." inversionary scenarios.

--

Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?

Why does this require a recall? by Gumber · 2003-09-26 06:38 · Score: 1

For something as expensive and computer dependant as the segway, they should have an easy an inexpensive way to distribute customer-installable "patches"

Re:Why does this require a recall? by Samurai+Cat! · 2003-09-26 06:50 · Score: 1

It doesn't recall a physical "ship it back to the factory" recall. A guy on a NYC based list I'm on has one - he mentioned planning to go down to a Holiday Inn near Wall St. to get his patched.

--

"People" using "unnecessary" quotes should be "shot".

Don 't blame the users.... by EnlightenmentFan · 2003-09-26 06:39 · Score: 5, Funny

Pullleez---I'm speeding along the sidewalk, talking on my cellphone, checking my Palm Pilot, and now you expect me to keep an eye on the power indicator too?

Oops, damn, there goes another pedestrian....

--
Making trouble today for a better tomorrow...

Re:Don 't blame the users.... by RedWolves2 · 2003-09-26 06:56 · Score: 1

You mean you don't have bluetooth talking to all three of your devices to tell you what's wrong?
Re:Don 't blame the users.... by goldfndr · 2003-09-26 14:02 · Score: 2, Funny

Pullleez---I'm speeding along the sidewalk, talking on my cellphone, checking my Palm Pilot, and now you expect me to keep an eye on the power indicator too?
You forgot about posting to Slashdot.
I guess your mind was elsewhere?

--
Copyrights, Patents, Trademarks: temporary loans from the Public Domain, not real property ("intellectual" or otherwise)

Re:Ohhh.... by orthogonal · 2003-09-26 06:40 · Score: 1

For a moment, I thought they were referring to a human teleporter..

Yeah, well, it seems flies can get into the transporter and ....

--
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?

Training wheels? by gothicpoet · 2003-09-26 06:40 · Score: 2, Interesting

Maybe they should put training wheels on all of them while they are in recall?

You know, that started as a joke in my head, but you do have to wonder why they didn't put a small third wheel on there somewhere always touching the ground but on a hing so that it would only actually bear weight if the thing tipped too far.

Then again, I suppose the market droids couldn't have pushed it so hard as the next big thing if it didn't just have two wheels... Hard to look like an adult when you're basically whizzing around on a tricycle.

--
Quoth he ::
"It's all academic anyway..."

All floors recalled by m0smithslash · 2003-09-26 06:42 · Score: 2, Funny

It has been determined that people standing, walking and running on floors have fallen for unexplained reasons. Until these reasons can be determined, all floors in the US are being recalled. It is recommended that you do not walk, run or stand on any floor until the cause of this public health hazard can be determined and all floors repaired. Using a floor in this way can cause injury or death.

Caution is advised whenever you must make contact with any floor. The recomended uses of a floor now include laying and sitting. The safety of crawling on a floor is being studied at this time.

In other news the Dihydrogen Monoxide Research Division is recommending that the government Ban Dihydrogen Monoxide.

--
Your friend and well-wisher
m0smithslash
http://www.ferociousflirting.com

Re:fuck you nerds by sgtpudding · 2003-09-26 06:42 · Score: 1

Dean Kamen, is that you? You ol' rascall!

Try recharging first? by fetusbear · 2003-09-26 06:43 · Score: 1

Umm, wouldn't it have been easier to just recharge the batteries than recall them all when the batteries run down? ;-)

Re:Help! I've fallen and I can't get up! by zcat_NZ · 2003-09-26 06:44 · Score: 1

Segway Error 404:
Battery Not Found.

segwayfinder.verisign.com:

We didn't find "yoursegwaybattery.com"
There is no battery at this address.

--
455fe10422ca29c4933f95052b792ab2

Software upgrades fix many problems by EDA+Wizard · 2003-09-26 06:46 · Score: 5, Interesting

I don't find it interesting that a software upgrade fixes the problem.

Software upgrades are the cheapest fix for any system problem. This is why they are almost always required by devices. We (companies, not specifically Segway) can ship products early with solid hardware and must less solid software because the cost of fixing problems in software are so minimal.

This software fix probably just shuts down the scooter earlier before the battery runs all the way out. A few cars do the same with gas so that people are driving at 70mph don't loose power breaks and stearing when the engine starts studdering.

Hardware fixes can often cost more then direct replacement of the product. A simple printer circuit board rework could cost $50 each to just disassemble a product, cut a trace and reassemble it. That doesn't include the cost to ship the product back to the manufacture or to a rework house somewhere in the US.

Flash is cheap and almost all companies use it to fix sw problems in the field and work around hardware problems.

Re:Software upgrades fix many problems by bobthemuse · 2003-09-26 07:22 · Score: 1

Fantastic, so to meet the demands of a bunch of lawsuit-happy schmucks, they'll offer all future segway's with the "feature" that at at 20% charge, the system shuts down. Never mind that I could get another few miles out of it, wouldn't want me to bump my poor noggin out of sheer stupidity.
Re:Software upgrades fix many problems by CausticWindow · 2003-09-26 07:53 · Score: 1

driving at 70mph [....] loose power breaks and stearing when the engine starts studdering.

What kind of crappy cars are you used to? Or are you just severly underdeveloped? You should have had a car before servos became standard, that would've toughened your muscles.

--
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life

Another recall!! by Allaran · 2003-09-26 06:46 · Score: 1

This just in!

Boeing has issued a voluntary recall on several of their airplanes. It seems that they have discovered a high fatality rate if the pilot continues to fly the plane after the 'low fuel' warning!

Damn! by GillBates0 · 2003-09-26 06:46 · Score: 2, Funny

and my girlfriend broke up with me when both of us fell off the thing. i was only trying to impress her with my l33t segway riding skills :(

It wasn't my fault honey come backkk :'(

--
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam

Help! I've fallen... by thumbtack · 2003-09-26 06:46 · Score: 1

and can't get up...

somebody had to say it

Lazy Dumbasses by FuzzyGuru · 2003-09-26 06:48 · Score: 1

If you are too lazy to keep your Segway (sic) charged, then I think you should throw away all your battery operated devices. Seriously, do these "certain operating conditions" include User Stupidity? or did they not RTFM? These things are supposed to last up to 25 kilometers on a single charge.

--
OK - who stole my duct tape?

Natural Selection by tbase · 2003-09-26 06:49 · Score: 1

I thought this was a feature... people with enough money to buy a $3000 scooter, but not smart enough to stop riding it when a warning light comes on get tossed on their face if they rapidly accellerate or try to drive over a log. What was the problem again? We can only hope that the fix will prevent it from happening only when no camcorder is detected within focal distance.

--

666-607: 6th floor apartment of the beast

If you mock the President, ... by burgburgburg · 2003-09-26 06:50 · Score: 2, Funny

or consider mocking the President or laugh when someone else mocks the President or even think of laughing when someone else mocks the President, then the terrorists win. You're giving aid and comfort to America's enemies. Now just step away from the computer and wait for your Guantanamo relocation expert who will be there shortly.

Re:If you mock the President, ... by jafiwam · 2003-09-26 06:59 · Score: 2, Funny

Oh come on now. Seriously, remember these:

- Bush Sr. puking on the Japanese Prime Minister
- Bush and the Bracholi
- Carter's peaunut farmer/ brewer brother
- That dress, wearing guy (Roosevelt?)
- Quayle and the spelling, or bumping the panic alarm (so the secret service freaks out)
- etc.

It's part of what makes this country great, being able to make fun of one's leaders.
Re:If you mock the President, ... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-26 07:36 · Score: 5, Funny

Yeah, it was funny when Quayle couldn't spell "potato."

But not half as funny as your even-more-illiterate attempt to spell "broccoli."

Third grade called. They have an opening for you.
Re:If you mock the President, ... by MidKnight · 2003-09-26 07:42 · Score: 1, Insightful

If you mock the President ... then the terrorists win.

Completely offtopic, but...

Well, that's a rather small & narrow-minded view, don't you think? As a voting American, I feel that I have the freedom to mock the President whenever I want to. If we limit mockery, why not limit criticism & all political debate? By your logic, Dennis Miller is guity of aiding the enemy several times over. Howard Dean must be one of the ring-leaders himself! Off with their heads!!!!

Seriously though, you do more to aid terrorism when you buy your fiancee a diamond ring, buy some drugs for the weekend, or attempt to limit my freedom of speech with your tunnel-vision view of GW Bush. Getting elected to the presidency does not give him immunity to questions, criticisms, or even mockery from his constituents.

--Mid
Re:If you mock the President, ... by Overly+Critical+Guy · 2003-09-26 07:55 · Score: 1

"Bracholi?"

Another part of what makes this country great is making fun of people who can't read and write their own language.

--
"Sufferin' succotash."
Re:If you mock the President, ... by abzorb · 2003-09-26 07:55 · Score: 1

WOW! I thought sarcasm was easier to point out... I guess the troll rating was correct after all.

--
hi
Re:If you mock the President, ... by rifter · 2003-09-26 07:59 · Score: 1, Interesting

Getting elected to the presidency does not give him immunity to questions, criticisms, or even mockery from his constituents.

But what does he win if he gets appointed to the presidency instead?
Re:If you mock the President, ... by Cro+Magnon · 2003-09-26 08:32 · Score: 1

I faile toe understand whut's rong with Quayle's speling!

--
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Re:If you mock the President, ... by Andrewkov · 2003-09-26 09:05 · Score: 2, Funny

consider mocking the President or laugh when someone else mocks the President or even think of laughing when someone else mocks the President, then the terrorists win.
I'm Canadian, you insensitive clod! I'm allowed to laugh at US Presidents! ...And your current one is the best in years! ;-)
Re:If you mock the President, ... by Jason_says · 2003-09-26 09:07 · Score: 1

I think it was Ragean(spelling?) that once said that trees were a common source of air polution
Re:If you mock the President, ... by derch · 2003-09-26 10:27 · Score: 1

Where's the "didn't get the joke" moderation?
Re:If you mock the President, ... by TPFH · 2003-09-26 10:49 · Score: 1

I feel that I have the freedom to mock the President whenever I want to.

You want Freedom of Speech?????
Don't you know that if we have freedom of speech the terrorists have already won???????

Shut Up! Be Happy! or Go back to your cave in Afghanistan!!!!!!!!!!

(I'm beating a dead horse here aren't I?)

--
This signature used to contain a cute kitty virus with ansii art. Please set the slashdot editors on fire. Thank you
Re:If you mock the President, ... by Slime-dogg · 2003-09-26 12:27 · Score: 1

Yeah. Bush is like the Adam Sandler of the White House.

Clinton was the John Holmes.

Reagan was the Clint Eastwood.

Jimmy Carter was Richard Simmons.

--
You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.
Re:If you mock the President, ... by Slime-dogg · 2003-09-26 17:35 · Score: 1

I meant it in the sense that there hadn't been so much outright sex in the White House since JFK, and even his supposed "encounters" were a rumor, and are very doubtful. JFK was on his last legs, and probably had issues with rising to the occasion.

--
You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.
Re:If you mock the President, ... by altamira · 2003-09-27 03:45 · Score: 1

Another part of what makes this country great is making fun of people who can't read and write their own language.

Ahem, so /. readers/posters all are from this country?

Re:Help! I've fallen and I can't get up! by marnerd · 2003-09-26 06:50 · Score: 1

The Segway does have a battery guage, and is also designed to safely shut down when the battery goes beneath a certain level.

My guess is that they tested this feature on either fresh or properly maintained batteries. Once It got out in the real world and people started abusing the batteries (letting them run all the way down, etc), the batteries no longer performed as the software expected. The battery probably falls from "somewhat low" to "dump you on your butt" too quickly.

I volunteered to do the software upgrade on ours (my companies). No go, but at least I will get to watch the tech and see what this thing looks like inside.

--
Not so much a sig as a lack of one.

injuries by falsification · 2003-09-26 06:50 · Score: 2, Insightful

It's important to note that people already have been injured by the scooters. Reuters

Segway has received three such reports of riders falling off, including one person who sustained a head injury that required stitches, the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission and the company said in a statement.

And I don't want anybody to say that we didn't warn you. We sure enough warned you.

This is not action by a court. This is not a lawsuit. This is action by a governmental regulatory body under George W. Bush. If they are acting under Bush, this must be a humongous problem.

In my opinion, proper use of a Segway will probably require at least a helmet.

Finally, the death of ginger by ryanw · 2003-09-26 06:52 · Score: 1

Anyone remember the "HYPE" of "GINGER"? Oh my gosh. "Revolutionary", "We're not sure what it is, but it fits in a backpack and is going to change transportation as we know it." Those were phrases on the tips of everyone's tongue a few years ago.

Once the segway finally was revealed it was a huge downer. So it's a scooter you stand on instead of sit down on. Big deal. I hope we get true innovation someday in the mass transportation sector.

Segway Linux? by jakedata · 2003-09-26 06:52 · Score: 1

I would be interested in knowing how the Segway get's it's software upgrade.

Perhaps the XBox team could come up with a Linux distro for it.

Imaging a Beowulf cluster of Segways all rolling down the street in perfect synchrony.

CPSC recalls all cars, motocycles and airplanes by dbrower · 2003-09-26 06:53 · Score: 1

because bad things can happen when they run out of fuel, after the operator ignores low fuel warnings.

Consipiracists sense a Microsoft plot.

SCO sues someone involved.

-dB

--
"It if was easy to do, we'd find someone cheaper than you to do it."

Re:CPSC recalls all cars, motocycles and airplanes by stratjakt · 2003-09-26 06:56 · Score: 1

But none are marketed to elderly/disabled as safe, untippable alternatives to a wheelchair, are they?

If I bought a motorcycle that wasnt supposed to flip over, and it did, they should recall that too. Oh wait, they did, you don't see to many three wheelers these days.

--
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!

A classic slogan: by patricksevenlee · 2003-09-26 06:53 · Score: 1

"I've fallen... and I can't get up..."

Another reason why bicycles are better. by cryptochrome · 2003-09-26 06:54 · Score: 5, Insightful

Funny what happens when your amazing balancing anti-walking machine runs out of juice. And once you've picked yourself up off your ass/face, you get to lug your 90lb, $5000 machine someplace safe.

The humble bicycle, as if there was any doubt, clearly reigns supreme in this class of transportation. For getting around town comfortably, get a comfortable bike. For working around the warehouse, get a work bike or trike. And if you would like the electric assistance without your vehicle becoming useless when the battery runs out, get an electric bike. It's just that easy people.

--

---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?

Re:Another reason why bicycles are better. by Lumpy · 2003-09-26 08:10 · Score: 1

The humble bicycle, as if there was any doubt, clearly reigns supreme in this class of transportation. For getting around town comfortably, get a comfortable bike

you want a really comfortable commuter bike?? A recumbent tadpole trike cant be beat. super comfortable seat, extra stability (wont fall over if batteries in the headlight die!!) and are generally cheap ($800-$9000.00 depending on features and how snobby you want your trike.. just like cars)

there's a delivery company here in town that has american tricrusiers as their bikes with a modified kid trailer.. they carry more packages than any other courier and are much faster than the truck couriers.

--
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:Another reason why bicycles are better. by gaspyy · 2003-09-26 17:01 · Score: 1

Oh come on.

I love riding my bike, but lets admit as much: a bicycle isn't exactly a safe mode of transporation, but we don't see CPSC announcing that bikes are unsafe because if you don't pedal and you lose your balance, you will fall.

We are used to this, we understand the limitations and we accept the risks to the degree that we don't consider them as risks. Heck, the motorcycle is a pretty dangerous vehicle too.
Re:Another reason why bicycles are better. by garver · 2003-09-27 00:18 · Score: 4, Insightful

Oh, give the segway a break. I think it's pretty damned good for a 1.0 release. Bicycles have had almost 150 years to mature. Remember the first bicycles back in the day? How many people do you think we're look at these fools saying "wouldn't it be simpler to just walk?"
Just getting the segway a decent power supply would make for a vast improvement in stability, durability, and weight.

Considering that it is battery powered, I think .. by burgburgburg · 2003-09-26 06:54 · Score: 1

that this would be more appropriate:

*Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm* *Beep* *Beep* *Beep* "What's that?" *Hmmmmmmmmmm* *creeeeeek* *thump* "OW!"

In related news... by OSXpert · 2003-09-26 06:55 · Score: 1

After hearing Segway LLC's announcement today, angry Californians tried to shove Governor Gray Davis into a Segway box this morning, hoping that this recall would be more effective than the current one. One man, who thought the Segway recall would be more helpful then the California recall election, stated "I hope this software update allows Gov. Davis to become more like that robot from Terminator 3, who was an upgrade of the T1000 in Terminator 2." Arnold Schwarzenegger was noted as saying "The Total Recall of Segways is crucial to the state of California. Gray Davis is now Collateral Damage, and his True Lies have come to an end. And that Huffington lady is a bitch."

My God, Sluggy's REAL! by identity0 · 2003-09-26 06:56 · Score: 1

I refer you to this comic, in which this *very same* flaw in the 'Smegway' is part of an evil plot to take over the world! My god, it's true! But... but... if Sluggy Freelance is ture, then that means Santa is actually an EVIL ALIEN!!! AAAAAAHHHHH!!!

Helmets?! by donutz · 2003-09-26 06:56 · Score: 1

Many localities require you (or maybe just your children) to wear a helmet when you ride a bike or skate, in order to protect your head from injury. Because people are too stupid or too beautiful to decide to wear a helmet on their own.

I'm not in favor of pumping more laws out there (100 years from now...people will be reading section 520.C subparagraph 5, sentence 2: "All Segway riders shall be required to wear proper helmets" to which our future friends will say "what the f**k is a Segway?")....so....

Why can't the CPSC just tell consumers that it's in their best interests to wear a helmet when they ride their Segway, and if they don't and they get injured, then they can just f**king deal with it.

Re:Helmets?! by realdpk · 2003-09-26 07:24 · Score: 1

Yeah, we have a helmet law here in the nanny state of Seattle. It's bogus.

The CPSC needs to make themselves relevant, and in order to do so, they have to exert some authority. It's too bad, because most of their recalls fall under the category of "Y'all should know about this already, and if you don't, do not have children".

It's not magic by pcp_ip · 2003-09-26 06:56 · Score: 2, Informative

come on people. it's not magic. It's battery powered. you didn't realize when the batteries died the thing would fall over?

Re:It's not magic by LittleGuy · 2003-09-26 07:56 · Score: 1

come on people. it's not magic. It's battery powered. you didn't realize when the batteries died the thing would fall over?

But... but when I clap very loud, the lights in my house come on.

Like TinkerBelle coming back to life.

Yes, Peter Pan, I *do* believe in batteries. I do!

And the Clapper.

--
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.

Translation: by stienman · 2003-09-26 07:00 · Score: 4, Funny

The decision we made when we designed the thing was based on the idea that people would stop riding it when the battery low light came on. Since then we've realized a few things:

1) People treat battery low as "still works under all conditions" as they might if it were a gas tank. But the battery is unable to deliver the instantaneous power needed to go over certian obstacles when partially discharged.
2) The battery low signal is set too low, since even a mild partial discharge will not supply enough instantaneous power for critical maneuvers.
3) Li-Ion batteries are dieing in a pattern which we did not expect. The processor needs to assume there is less power available than what it was previously calculating.

Upshot: The software "upgrade" will give you about 10 minutes of ride time on a full charge before turning on the low battery light, then the alarm. Shortly thereafter the unit will stop in place and use its remaining power simply to stay upright.

Internal memo: Design an "upgrade" battery pack that doubles the range to 20 minutes! We'll make a killing!

-Adam

Re:Translation: by falsification · 2003-09-26 07:07 · Score: 1

Interesting. I take it you will have to adjust the software so that the Segway halts while it still has a charge, to prevent throwing the rider. In other words, users with adjusted Segways will be going along, and then suddenly, in the middle of their trip, perhaps in the middle of traffic, their Segway will just stop, dead, though it will still be upright.
How are you going to prevent users from becoming stranded in the middle of nowhere, when the battery runs out?
Re:Translation: by sammaffei · 2003-09-26 07:21 · Score: 1

3) Li-Ion batteries are dieing in a pattern which we did not expect. The processor needs to assume there is less power available than what it was previously calculating.
Sounds good, but I think the batteries are NiMH.

--
Political correctness is the newest form of slavery.
Re:Translation: by ejaw5 · 2003-09-26 08:41 · Score: 1

1) People treat battery low as "still works under all conditions" as they might if it were a gas tank. But the battery is unable to deliver the instantaneous power needed to go over certian obstacles when partially discharged. Well, you know how people like to challenge the gauge and "go below the slash...."

--

$cat /dev/random > Sig
Re:Translation: by qa'lth · 2003-09-26 11:04 · Score: 1

I recommend .. building into the device a storage unit somewhat reminiscent of a glove box, and putting into it a cellphone, and a good pair of shoes. :)

Secret document reveals proposed update by merlyn · 2003-09-26 07:00 · Score: 1

I understand they're going to add pedals so that you can assist with the power generation during low-battery situations, and a third wheel for additional backup stability.

They'll call it the "seg-trike".

--

Randal L. Schwartz, Just another Perl hacker for Stonehenge

Re:Secret document reveals proposed update by stratjakt · 2003-09-26 07:03 · Score: 2, Insightful

Why can't they have something on front and back, like the wheelie bar on a dragster, to keep them from tipping completely and sending the rider sprawling in case of a failure?

All the software and gyroscopes and magic technology is fine and good, but it's nice to have common sense as your backup system.

--
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!

Oh no by autopr0n · 2003-09-26 07:02 · Score: 2, Insightful

Clearly, my car needs to be recalled. When I run out of gas, it just stops.

This could be dangerous on the highway!

--
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.

Re:Help! I've fallen and I can't get up! by jafiwam · 2003-09-26 07:02 · Score: 1

That should not be a 404, it should come back with:

"NXBATTERY"

I really am suprised that the author did not know any better.

Your sig by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-26 07:03 · Score: 1, Funny

"I'm much funnier now that I'm a subscriber."

Having just read your post, I can say, unequivocally, that are either not funnier or you were about as funny as an old lady with AIDS having a heart attack in a coma.

mods? by SHEENmaster · 2003-09-26 07:05 · Score: 1

"My segway goes 60 miles/hour!"
VROOM!

"Oh yeah?, mine runs Linux!"
VROOM!

"Oh yeah! Mine runs Windows Server 2003 64bit Edition!"
BOOM!

--
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.

Re:Not necessarily the user's fault by lcsjk · 2003-09-26 07:06 · Score: 1

I recently saw a couple of teen girls at a gas-station who had just destroyed their engine because they did not know the oil pressure lamp is a vital warning. However, they remained unhurt.
With Segway and low battery, the user WILL fall. Therefore, there must be an alarm to alert the driver and software control to safely stop. Also, the software must not allow the device to have a startup surge that reduces the battery voltage below a safe control level.
The fix is a software fix, because all of the analog sensing is done using a micro-controller.
An over-ride could allow forward motion, but at a controlled speed and acceleration surges moderated.

(An alternate solution would be to provide airbags both front and back which deploy if the loaded vehicle starts falling. A solution, and not meant to be funny.)

Evil plan... by ryanvm · 2003-09-26 07:07 · Score: 1

Of course once your Segway runs out of juice and flips you into an intersection you end up buying Dean Kamen's other big invention...

the cities?! by stagl · 2003-09-26 07:09 · Score: 1

but...but, where are my cities?! they didn't get a chance to build the cities around this life changing transportation device!

--

R.I.P.

Re:karma to burn by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-26 07:12 · Score: 1, Insightful

It isn't right to tell a child that they must always remember to check the power light on their scooter, or they could fall off and die.

Holy fucking shit, they might DIE??? We must recall the Segway, string up the whole design team, flay the government saftety officials that approved the design...

Oh wait, they could DIE from falling the wrong way down the stairs? Or even walking across the street?

To put it another way, while your post has a sliver of value, your emotionally laden words are both trite and pathetic. Please, do us all a favor and come back when you want to post something less sickening.

Re:karma to burn by Le+Marteau · 2003-09-26 07:13 · Score: 1

The inventor of the Segway should hang his head in shame. He has put his own greed above the safety of human life.

Oh for chrissakes spare the melodrama, OK?

If it was just a matter of greed and not stupididy he would have put a fix in his machine so that the machine would not run at all with low batteries. As it stands, the inventor is now liable for injuries.

Sounds to me like the inventor was just stupid.

--
Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs

A proper anology would be a motorcycle. by geekoid · 2003-09-26 07:13 · Score: 1

If a car runs out of the gas, it doesn't toss you out the door.
If they said the segway can be ridden with the low battery light on, then they should hace expected this.

Now I'm going to go out, buy a motorcycle, and ignore the gas gauge!

--
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

A bicycle is NOT unstable when moving.. by nweaver · 2003-09-26 07:15 · Score: 2, Interesting

When moving, a bicycle is inherantly stable, as there are two aligned gyroscopes keeping it going forward. It's only unstable when not moving or nearly not moving. Even when stopped, it is only ustable perpendicular to the direction of motion.

The segway, on the other hand, is ALWAYS unstable along the axis of motion, and the farther you get away from the stable point, the more force it takes to bring it back to being stable.

--
Test your net with Netalyzr

Re:A bicycle is NOT unstable when moving.. by Xiamin · 2003-09-26 08:36 · Score: 2, Informative

When moving, a bicycle is inherantly stable, as there are two aligned gyroscopes keeping it going forward. It's only unstable when not moving or nearly not moving. Even when stopped, it is only ustable perpendicular to the direction of motion.

This is actually not true. Bicycle wheels are too light to be effective gyroscopes (motorcycle wheels are another story). If you spin one in your hands, you'll notice some resistance, but it's not nearly enough to keep a rider upright. Bicycle riders actually balance themselves unconsciously. It's easier at higher speed because you need to make much smaller movements (plus the rake/trail of the steering makes you stay straight once you're balanced).

See section 9.35 of the req.bicycle.* faq for more details:
Re:A bicycle is NOT unstable when moving.. by Sparr0 · 2003-09-26 08:55 · Score: 1

the gyroscopic forces produced by the wheels are an EXTREMELY small part of what actually keeps a bicycle upright. bicycles are actually kept upright by a system of negative feedback in which even the slightest deviation from vertical tends to pull the front wheel sideways in a manner so that it rights itself (due to the angular momentum of the entire bike+rider). this has been explicitly proven by people who built bicycles very strangely so has to produce the opposite behavior of the front wheel, they were almost impossible to ride.
Re:A bicycle is NOT unstable when moving.. by jd_esguerra · 2003-09-26 15:08 · Score: 1

The segway, on the other hand, is ALWAYS unstable along the axis of motion, and the farther you get away from the stable point, the more force it takes to bring it back to being stable.

Practically speaking, the segway does have two other stable operating points (angle being the only state under consideration): 1) pitched all the forward, with the rider on his/her face, and 2) pitched all the way backwards, with the rider on his/her back. At + or - pi/2 radians from vertical, there might be some huge reaction torque that could "right" the segway and pilot, but I'll assume that is beyond the capability of the motors. In practice, these operating points would be stable.

The real problem.. by MtlDty · 2003-09-26 07:15 · Score: 1

The real problem here is not the Segway. Its that damn gravity stuff. I swear, Newton has got a lot to answer for. Just think how much stuff you have broken all because of Newtons Gravity gizmo. Gravity sucks

IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE by Shwag · 2003-09-26 07:19 · Score: 1

Segway LCC is informing Segway HT owners by written letter of a voluntary recall to install new Version 12.0 software in all human transporters. Segway has filed it's intent with the US Consumer Products Safety Commission. The CSPC is a central source for manufacturers to coordinate necessary safety recall improvements to outstanding products.

A program of installing Version 12.0 software has already begun. All Segway HT machines in inventory at both Segway LLC and Segway Experience have been given the Version 12.0 software enhancement. The software will direct the human transporter to notify the rider earlier when the battery power is nearing a level when the power is not adequate to notify the rider of an impending safety shutdown.

All Segway owners will be contacted by written letter explaining the procedure that will bring the Version 12.0 software to their Segway HT. There is an information hotline 1-877-889-9020 from 8am to 8pm weekdays. There is no cost to the Segway HT owner for this software Version 12.0 enchancement. Customers of Segway Experience may call without cost, leave a question, and expect a prompt response. Or email questions to info@segwayexperience.net Having test riden the Version 12.0 software installed we can report there is no discernible change in the operation of the Segway HT and the added knowledge of a even safer riding experience. Electric batteries tend to have reduced capacity in cooler weather than warm weather.

Old School by Lemmeoutada+Collecti · 2003-09-26 07:21 · Score: 1

Am I the only one who thought of the old Flash Gordon, with the flying Jet-Skis replaced by flying Segways, and Ming's troops falling screaming to their doom as Gordon laughs on and points to his 'Energizer' battery?

Just wondering...

--

You can have it fast, accurate, or pretty. Pick any 2.

Re:Old School by Fjornir · 2003-09-26 19:37 · Score: 1

Yes.

--
I want a new world. I think this one is broken.

My granpa had this kind of accident... by DrFlex · 2003-09-26 07:23 · Score: 1

He was driving the segway that we gave to him for his 90th birthday.

First thing you know, he ignores the battery warning and continues on driving to the nearest drug store to stock up on Pringles.

The poor man tried to accelerate while encountering an obstacle. Needless to stay that he fell right on his back. Thing is, the segway fell on him and punctured his only remaining lung. Poor man, we will miss him.

When the paramedics saw him with his segway they laugh so hard that their rubber gloves bacame all sweaty and they actually dropped him while carrying him to the ambulance.

Re:karma to burn by falsification · 2003-09-26 07:23 · Score: 1

I'd love to see you say that to the family of the first person a Segway kills.

Re:recall just for batteries?? by Tongo · 2003-09-26 07:24 · Score: 1

No, I do believe that this was supposed to "revolutionize the way cities are designed" and other bs crap like that. Everyone was supposed to be astounded and estatic about these stupid ass things.

Not the only design problem by EisPick · 2003-09-26 07:26 · Score: 1

According to the Washington City Paper , the Segway can also run away from "stupid users" who step off of it without powering it off. This led to a dangerous situation in Washington's subway, which has led to a ban on the devices in the Metrorail system:

Unlike, say, a power lawnmower, a Segway doesn't have an automatic kill switch that activates if you stop holding the controls. "I sat down, didn't shut it off, and let go of it," Kinkella recalls. The machine took off on its own and flopped onto the subway's track bed. Metro safety official Ron Keele says service had to be temporarily shut down until the HT could be retrieved.

I'd call that a pretty serious design problem.

LOL by milesbparty · 2003-09-26 07:26 · Score: 1

Man, I looked at the video clips for this...the people using these things just look really gay!

This must truely be for the lazy, fat, couch potato types. (walking to the mailbox is just WAY too much exercise for me!)

I don't care...mod me down...hahahaha

--
eMelody Web Directory add your site today!

it's easy by squarefish · 2003-09-26 07:26 · Score: 1

don't step on SHT and you don't fall down!

--
Creationists are a lot like zombies. Slow, but powerful and numerous. And they all want to eat our brains.

No wonder Amazon wouldn't give actual numbers... by EnlightenmentFan · 2003-09-26 07:27 · Score: 2, Interesting

"Segway's Human Transporter, the self-balancing electric scooter that has kept technophiles abuzz for the last two years, ranks among the best-selling items on Amazon.com's Web site, the online retailer said Monday." Anybody else remember claim last December?

According to Wired, Kamen had predicted he'd be "stamping out 10,000 machines a week" by the end of 2002.

--
Making trouble today for a better tomorrow...

Out of Brain Power? by webzombie · 2003-09-26 07:27 · Score: 2, Interesting

My car doesn't fall over if it runs out of gas.! :-)

If this thing is supposed to revolutionize the way entire cities are built I guess that means they're going to have padded sidewalks!

Clearly this problem should have come up during the design and prortype phase? Shouldn't it have?

LOL!

Trial lawyers see otherwise. by Shivetya · 2003-09-26 07:29 · Score: 1

Ever buy baby toys and furniture? I guarantee the warnings are a result of lawsuits. My favorites are warnings to not disassemble while the the baby is in the chair, do not use the rocker on stairs and etc.

In this litigous society you not only have to compensate for possible accidents but also for intentional incidents that resemble accidents.

Hell, how many years have their been warnings on cigarrettes? The only dumbasses are Americans for putting up with this litigous abuse.

--
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.

Re:Trial lawyers see otherwise. by Gibble · 2003-09-26 07:36 · Score: 1

The best warning, and I swear this is what it said.

In the intructions to my game gear, along with, do not leave in direct sunlight, do not put near a magnet, etc, etc, it said "Do not break"

How's that for covering all your bases?

--
Gibble: Descriptive of an emotional state in which one's mind is scrabbling for some purchase on reality

In related news... by DingoBueno · 2003-09-26 07:29 · Score: 1

Mongoose announces massive recall, siting danger of falling.

--
ascii art

A better fix... by rarose · 2003-09-26 07:31 · Score: 2, Insightful

Too bad the fix is just a software upgrade... seems like they could add a retractable "nose wheel" that would deploy on low battery situations.

I mean really... who wants to land their Segway in a full stall anyway?

--
--Rob

Planning? Common Sense?? by effer · 2003-09-26 07:33 · Score: 2, Interesting

When I leave on a trip, be it short or long, I always check my gas level and make sure my lights, brakes, etc. work. It's common sense.
Falling off aside, if my battery/alternator is bad and it's a rainy night, it's my own fault if I get stranding in outer Bogonia. Same goes for fuel, brakes, and radiator.
This issue does point out a flaw with some very reasonable solutions (slow and stop upon low battery or even a third wheel stabilisation to allow the gyros to be turned off-drops/extends from the back).

Too much fodder for the basshers here.

"School Paste, it's what's for dinner!"

Re:karma to burn by greymond · 2003-09-26 07:35 · Score: 1

I'd tell them to their face "What the FUCK kind of parent are YOU that you would let your kid play on a Segway unsupervised or FAIL to teach him/her the proper use of the machine."

--
Ave Molech Setting

Time for Arnie by Kris404 · 2003-09-26 07:36 · Score: 1

You could hear Arnold say "Yeah, I'm all for it..Wait.. oh it's the Segway"

So... by Looks_Like_A_Penguin · 2003-09-26 07:37 · Score: 1

So what you're saying is that it's safer for that same car to lose power brakes and steering at 70mph/a predetermined gas level than to send a warning signal and let the vehicle run out of gas on its own? Just checking...

Get a loaner? by greygent · 2003-09-26 07:39 · Score: 3, Funny

Do all the Segway owners with atrophied leg muscles and rotund asses get a loaner unit while their unit is in for repair?

It would be simply cruel to expect them to transport themselves under their own muscle power due to a defect in the Segway.

Re:Help! I've fallen and I can't get up! by eatdave13 · 2003-09-26 07:45 · Score: 1

If you're too stupid to put a foot on the ground when you start tipping, yeah, I'd expect to be losing teeth all over the place.

--
"Verbing weirds language." -- Calvin

It's an oil issue by pabtro · 2003-09-26 07:46 · Score: 1

This is funny, someone must be very afraid to kill an oil dependent economy. The technology has been here for long time; electric, hydrogen, natural gas, wind, solar, etc. yet no politician or development plan will commit to this seriously, not even for public transportation. This is a can of worms that goes well beyond the automotive industry; at least they are trying to improve thanks to Japan's hybrid cars.

Might be the Segway's Achilles' heel... by dpbsmith · 2003-09-26 07:50 · Score: 2, Insightful

...hmmm... if the device runs short of power, it sounds as if it can in effect pull your feet out from under you. (Actually, it's falling to push your feet under you). That sounds like a fairly unpleasant and dangerous kind of fall, similar to being tripped.

On a bicycle, it's easy and natural to take your foot off the pedal and put it on the ground; ditto a scooter. But perhaps it's not so easy when you're standing upright with both feet on the device.

--

"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!

Re:Might be the Segway's Achilles' heel... by bill_mcgonigle · 2003-09-30 01:42 · Score: 1

Might be the Segway's Achilles' heel...

Too bad Achilles couldn't put a patch on his ankles to solve the problem like Segway did. It's a non-issue after the patch, so it can't very well be Segway's downfall.

Of course, now when your battery gets low, the thing is probably going to stop moving and will spin the motors to keep it upright and probably beep at you incessently until you get off. Segway's problem may be: "what then"?

--
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)

How much more obvious do I have to be? by burgburgburg · 2003-09-26 07:59 · Score: 1, Funny

If you do not immediately prostrate yourself in front of the mandatory "W in a flight suit" shrine that are now federally required in every domicile (including the ever increasing cardboard boxes that the more and more "jobless recovery" slackers are infesting) and beg forgiveness for ever doubting that his resolve to make sure that every person making over $200,000 a year from investments would not only have to pay no taxes but would instead be given both cash on the barrelhead and lucrative contracts to rebuild Iraq ,pushing the national debt to $1 trillion dollars, would somehow lead to an economic boom, then you are an enemy combatant and the terrorists win.

John Ashcroft will personally be by in a few minutes to take you to Guantanamo.

Re:How much more obvious do I have to be? by TPFH · 2003-09-26 10:31 · Score: 1

pushing the national debt to $1 trillion dollars

Funny, I thought that the national dept was already over Six trillion dollars.

--
This signature used to contain a cute kitty virus with ansii art. Please set the slashdot editors on fire. Thank you
Re:How much more obvious do I have to be? by ThisIsFred · 2003-09-26 12:34 · Score: 1

"...beg forgiveness for ever doubting that his resolve to make sure that every person making over $200,000 a year from investments would not only have to pay no taxes..."

Uh... Those people account for 80%+ of the tax revenue. I think it'd be in your best interest to have them continue to make generate income.

--
Fred

"A fool and his freedom are soon parted"
-RMS
Re:How much more obvious do I have to be? by MegaHamsterX · 2003-09-26 18:36 · Score: 1

What?
We're under quota on lying cheating bastards!
How will we fix the problem?
Recruit more!
Excellent idea!
Yes, I agree the problem has not been handled correctly in the past.
Mr.President we will put your plan into action now!

Why can't either party have a decent candidate,
I think honesty would be a start,
I want my president to proudly proclaim when questioned about indescretions,
"Yes I inhaled, got a blow-job, made mad money from scumbags and enjoyed it!"
"You're pissed you didn't get an invite to the party aren't you?"

Hey I'm in South Florida, does that qualify as "close-enough" to Guantonimo?
I think I may have just been kicked out of my party for posting this.|shrug|

Re:Help! I've fallen and I can't get up! by Cranx · 2003-09-26 07:59 · Score: 1

Oh, well that's fantastic! So, all I have to do is be ready for a quick recovery so that if it powers-down suddenly, all I have to do is stick my foot out. If my concentration gets side-tracked by things like pedestrians, automobiles and what-not, it's my own damn fault. Yeah, I have to say I agree with you, that makes sense to me.

I don't know why kids don't do that when they hit rocks with their skateboard wheels. Stupid kids!

Some people lack basic motor skills by mofochickamo · 2003-09-26 08:01 · Score: 1

some Segway HTs may not deliver enough power, allowing the rider to fall

It is truly a sad comment on the dexterity of those individuals who need training wheels to keep them from falling off of their Segway.

--
Honk if you're horny.

Re:recall just for batteries?? by Tongo · 2003-09-26 08:03 · Score: 1

Crap, sorry, just realized this was humor. Serve's me right for posting to fast I guess.

a better comparison by kaan · 2003-09-26 08:07 · Score: 3, Insightful

A better analogy would be, wouldn't they recall cars if your car steering and brakes failed every time the "low gas" indicator went on.

You're almost there. The equivalent situation for a dead Segway battery would be a gasoline engine with no gasoline.

I've been (un)fortunate enough to run out of gas in a car as well as while riding a motorcycle, and I can tell you when you're out of gas in either one (especially if you're in a freeway situation, which I was lucky enough to be in while riding a nearly-empty motorcycle) it is completely unsafe. No gas, no power. No power means you can't keep up, and suddenly the 5-10 feet between you and the other cars seems way too close. So if I, as a driver, am too careless/stupid/whatever enough to ignore the gas light and keep driving, how the hell could I make any claim that it's the auto manufacturer's fault if I get plowed into by other freeway traffic? I think this is similar to the Segway situation, because they're giving you a warning alert, so it becomes a discretionary issue with the individual.

I'm curious to know what Segway intends to do with the units that are sent back for the recall. My guess is that they'll simply modify the Segway to shut down if the battery is low.

Re:a better comparison by RedBear · 2003-09-26 10:21 · Score: 1

No power means you can't keep up, and suddenly the 5-10 feet between you and the other cars seems way too close.

Huh? I may be misinterpreting what you mean, but in order to drive safely you have to have a minimum of 3 seconds of space between you and the cars in front and behind you. On a 65MPH freeway that equates to almost 300 feet. If everyone left that much space we would very rarely have multiple car accidents. People are idiots.

You probably meant the space on each side (at least I hope so), but still, people are idiots and almost never leave enough space between their vehicle and the one in front of them. I think we should pass a law that revokes any insurance benefits for people who don't leave enough space. You could probably cut the total number of automobile "accidents" by a third in a couple of years, if you had some way to enforce that.
Re:a better comparison by Andorion · 2003-09-26 10:28 · Score: 1

That's the problem - you can't just shut it down, or the person riding it falls off. You also can't pre-emptively shut it down, because you don't know how long it's going to be ridden. Maybe a solution would be to emit a very loud, very annoying noise when the battery gets low, basically forcing the rider to stop riding? =)

~Berj
Re:a better comparison by kaan · 2003-09-26 12:30 · Score: 1

I may be misinterpreting what you mean, but in order to drive safely you have to have a minimum of 3 seconds of space between you and the cars in front and behind you. On a 65MPH freeway that equates to almost 300 feet. If everyone left that much space we would very rarely have multiple car accidents.

Since when do freeway drivers, or really drivers on any terrain, follow what they "should" do? I currently live in Austin, Texas (~1 million people), and have lived previously in the Los Angeles and Washington, D.C. areas. I can promise you that, while it would be much safer, cars almost never allow other vehicles to have 300 feet between them (in front or behind). Do drivers do this where you live? Like, seriously? 300 feet?

I know all the math about safe stopping distance and reaction times, but I also know that most drivers don't really seem to care about safety. I regularly see drivers eating, reading, talking on a cell phone, applying make-up, digging around in the back seat, messing with a kid in a child seat, etc., all while driving down a freeway. I wish I were making this up, but sadly I see this stuff every day. I might pay more attention than most other people, but that's probably only because I saw this stuff a few times and can't stop looking for it now.

I remember a particularly awesome display of driving idiocy in the L.A. area, about 10 years ago I think. Most freeway traffic cruises at 75-80 mph, and while L.A. drivers are actually pretty aware and alert, they are not accustomed to driving in anything other than sunny weather. Think I'm joking? One day there was a thick fog that rolled in mysteriously (Southern California almost never sees fog), and the drivers made no adjustments to their driving habits. So one one freeway an otherwise minor accident occurred, but because drivers were so fricking close to each other it resulted in a 100+ car pile-up. It was a total mess. 300 feet sure would have been nice, but it's just not what happens (at least, nowhere that I've seen).

What? by ziggy_zero · 2003-09-26 08:09 · Score: 2, Interesting

Recall it because it fails to work if someone keeps going AFTER it gives them a low battery warning???

That's like saying they should recall cars because you could run out of gas on the highway and die, even though they have a handy gas gauge and some put on a little light to tell you when you're pretty much empty. I don't think they should recall something because of user stupidity.

Now I'm not a Segway advocate by any means (I think they're ridiculous), but this is stupid.

Is recall fever spreading?

--
I belong to the ______ generation.

When I drink too much... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-26 08:13 · Score: 2, Funny

I become unstable and fall over.

1) Will I be recalled soon?
2) Is there a software upgrade available that will prevent this from happening in the future?

So what they're saying is that... by LeoDV · 2003-09-26 08:15 · Score: 1

...when the battery of the Segway has not enough power it will stop?

prolific litigation by rodney+dill · 2003-09-26 08:16 · Score: 1

Undoubtedly the people involved, that lead to this recall had problems paying attention to the low battery indicator because they were on phone cell phone...had just spilled a hot cup of McDonalds coffee they were holding between their legs...were trying to emulate President Bush...driving under the influence...were stupid? naw couldn't be.

At last a topic and comment for which my sig truly applies.

--

Use your head, can't you, use your head,
You're on earth, there's no cure for that - S. Beckett

stupid people, stupid gov to accommodate them by verrol · 2003-09-26 08:23 · Score: 1

the reason this is stupid to me is that the user was given a low battery warning/alert. if they continue to use it, they deserve to be thrown off (it is sort of like the Segway saying "get off you idiot, I can't go anymore"). do we recall cars because drives get stuck in some inhospitable place because they refused to heed the low fuel warning?

Re:karma to burn by falsification · 2003-09-26 08:43 · Score: 1

Bzzzt. You can get hurt on a Segway if it stops and nothing else happens. You can't say that about any other land vehicle. As for a bicycle, you can get hurt if it comes to a stop, because of the difficulty in retaining balance. Nevertheless, whether the bicycle stops or not is determined by the actions of the rider. OTOH, a Segway can stop regardless of what its rider does.

Nice try, however.

It's not so simple. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-26 08:44 · Score: 1, Interesting

Slate did a review of the Segway a few months ago, and one of the issues raised was that the low battery indicator was impossible to read (you needed to bend over it and shield it from ambient light with your hand to read it). Piss-poor design that.

Other articles on the recall indicate that gyroscopes are impacted first when power drops below optimum. The scooter pitches the rider over on their head. Again piss-poor design. Imagine if your motorcycle were designed to handle a low fuel situation by locking your anti-lock brakes while you're at highway speed.

Kamen has a deserved reputation for producing rough prototypes that he considers market ready, when in fact they are optimistically 25% of the way there (The folks I work with know this from bitter experience).

Very few companies would buy a Kamen design a second time, and woe unto the engineers sentenced to clean it up into a marketable product.

All of which... by cyclist1200 · 2003-09-26 08:46 · Score: 2, Insightful

This can happen if the rider speeds up abruptly, encounters an obstacle, or continues to ride after receiving a low-battery alert.

All of which are the rider's fault. By that logic we should recall cars, boats, and planes as well.

Re:All of which... by SuiteSisterMary · 2003-09-26 08:57 · Score: 1

Ah yes, but those were all invented way back when America still had the idea of 'personal responsibility.'

--
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.

This is a BAD thing? by camusflage · 2003-09-26 08:46 · Score: 2, Funny

Personally, it sounds like Darwin in action to me. People that have more money than sense buy a toy, fall off, and potentially relieve the gene pool of the affliction.

--
The truth about Scientology, Xenu, and you: Operation Clambake

Who Cares About The Segway? by gilgongo · 2003-09-26 08:48 · Score: 1

It should be poll.

Really. Who the hell rides these things in any serious way? Aren't they rightly seen as comedy transport on a par with pogo sticks and unicycles?

The idea behind the Segway is stupid: provide motorised transport at little more than jogging pace in a society where almost a third of the population are already suffering obesity from lack of exercise; where distances between amenities are some of the longest in the world, and where the car reigns supreme.

That's really going to take over the world - ooh yes.

--
"And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"

Re:Who Cares About The Segway? by gvc · 2003-09-26 09:46 · Score: 1

I care about the Segway because there is some chance that I or a loved one will have a collision with one on a sidewalk. I am astonished that the press have bought into the myth that there is "no legislation" governing their use on walkways. Any bylaws I've read prohibit motorized vehicles (and usually bicycles, too) with the exception of wheelchairs.

As for their practicality, give me a break. If you want convenience and a bit of exercise, walk. If you want moderate speed, cycle. If you want to travel eco-killing distances, drive your car, ride your motorcycle, or take the bus, train, plane.

I see no target application for the Segway. It is an expensive toy. Perhaps not as dangerous as Lawn Darts, but with equal merit.

Re:Ohhh.... by BandwidthHog · 2003-09-26 08:50 · Score: 1

Well, yeah, if ya wanna get all literal about it. I was taking the 'disturbing visual' approach.

But taking the literal approach, I don't think you'd wind up halfway to your destination. The way I imagine teleportation, I think you'd effectively become an 'unperson,' having been disassembled at your departure point, but never reassembled at your arrivial point. And while equally tragic, how do you work that one into a classic slashdot meme?

--

Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?

So... by pulse2600 · 2003-09-26 08:52 · Score: 1

...ptorrone, what say you of your precious segway now?

No Online Upgrades? by ReadParse · 2003-09-26 08:57 · Score: 1

You'd think that for $5000, they could have put an RJ45 port on the sucker and included a DHCP client and a little web server admin interface for upgrades, like any other network device. Your IP address can show up on the display (surely there's some sort of display, or they could have included one just for that purpose for practically no money).

The justification for this is easy... when there's a problem that can be fixed with software, you just offer an upgrade instead of suffering the PR of a recall, even a voluntary one. The Segway, an ingenius invention that is under too much pressure to be too perfect too soon, is having a hard enough time with the public (too big, too ugly, too stupid, whatever) without this. This is definitely not what they need.

RP

Re:No Online Upgrades? by Anita+Coney · 2003-09-26 10:25 · Score: 1

What's ingenious about an over-priced and inefficient means of transport?! The fact that it only travels 15 miles per hour. The fact that you can only travel for an hour and a half before the batter dies. The fact that you cannot use it for shopping. The fact that you're utterly unprotected from the elements which essentially makes it only useful in-doors?! Please let me know what makes it ingenious!

--
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Re:No Online Upgrades? by ReadParse · 2003-09-26 12:41 · Score: 1

Please let me know what makes it ingenious!

What's ingenious about it? Have you read about it? The gyroscopes that keep it balanced on two wheels and senses your leaning direction and travels the direction and speed you want to go. It is truly revolutionary. And this is exactly the problem. People see is as an overpriced and underpowered moped, but it's actually the first version of a revolutionary transport. I honestly believe this invention is way bigger than most people are giving it credit for.

Overhyped? Absolutely. Overpriced? Probably, and definitely if they want to have the kind of earth-shattering acceptance that they were expecting. Practical at this moment in most situations? No. But an ingenious INVENTION? Yes -- absolutely.
Re:No Online Upgrades? by mabu · 2003-09-26 12:47 · Score: 1

Travelling in the direction you're leaning? I can do the same thing after a few six packs and will save $4990!

Why doesn't it just stop? by cpopin · 2003-09-26 08:59 · Score: 1

A low battery alert doesn't seem like a safe way of handling the problem. You'd think with the little battery life left it would try not to move at all, just stay balanced. This probably wouldn't be that easy to accomplish though.

Think about it. Everytime you leaned forward it would have to drive forward to stay balanced, then slowly back you up to the original position. That way it would inconvience the rider to the point that he'd half to get off.

--
-=- Many seek good nights and lose good days.

Not appointed, ... by burgburgburg · 2003-09-26 09:03 · Score: 1

The correct term is "selected".

You can refer to him as the asterisk President.

Re:Not appointed, ... by lambwolf · 2003-09-26 12:48 · Score: 1

Although when push comes to shove, it's never George W. Bush's ass-to-risk.

Quote by George Bush Sr. on the Gulf War: by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-26 09:32 · Score: 1, Interesting

"Trying to eliminate Saddam... would have incurred incalculable human and policital costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible... We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq... there was no viable 'exit strategy' we could see, violating another of our principles... Had we gone the invasion route, the United States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land."

- President H.W. Bush from his memoir, "A World Transformed", commenting on why he did not try to overthrow Saddam Hussein at the end of the first Gulf War.

To bad Jr. didn't learn anything from his dad.

Re:Quote by George Bush Sr. on the Gulf War: by mabhatter654 · 2003-09-26 10:03 · Score: 1

Mod that way, way up!

eh by _avs_007 · 2003-09-26 09:36 · Score: 1

I don't think this is just limited to baby toys and furniture. I'm sure most all warnings are the result of dumbasses doing something stupid, then trying to hold the manufacturer liable....

Why would you put a warning on Preperation-H saying DO NOT EAT? Or those drying agents that come with stereo equipment? What dumbass thinks his new stereo came with free chicklets?

I'm almost positive my owners manual for my car says to not drive the car at night if the headlights don't work, nor to operate the car in inclimate weather conditions if the wipers don't work... I think it also says to not pour water in the gas tank, and that they wouldn't be responsible for the resulting engine damage...

Bush falls by netfool · 2003-09-26 09:45 · Score: 1

Bush falling off a segway

--
Left 4 Dead Gaming Group - http://www.l4dgg.com

I guess by _avs_007 · 2003-09-26 09:57 · Score: 1

A better example would be a 747 pilot ignoring the computer when it says, "Pull up! Pull Up!"

so what happens by _avs_007 · 2003-09-26 10:00 · Score: 1

If a pilot ignores the terrain mapping on the computer, or the automated, "Pull up!" warning when flying towards a cliff or too low? I guess Boeing should recall its jets too...

Maybe we should all sue Exxon because the drunk captain crashed the tanker...

Re:so what happens by bazmonkey · 2003-09-26 17:11 · Score: 1

I sincerely hope Boeing doesn't sell jets to the kind of people that would fall off of a low-battery-powered Segeway.

John Titor quotes (January 2001) about Segway& by TheMidget · 2003-09-26 10:14 · Score: 1

Iraq and the Segway in the same story. Cute!!

About the Segway:

Craig Cuthbert
What it IT (Ginger)? The buzz is that it revolutionizes transportation. What change happened in the early '00s that relates to this?
John Titor
(2). It looks like some sort of motorized scooter. What do you think ?IT? is?

About Iraq's WMD's and the war:

Are you really surprised to find out that Iraq has nukes now or is that just BS to whip everyone up into accepting the next war?

Windows XP will keep you upright and ambulatory by nanodik · 2003-09-26 10:56 · Score: 1

This thing just needs an OS upgrade. I hear XP doesn't crash, just slows down a wee bit...

Yes, but this also happens when... by Zathras11 · 2003-09-26 11:17 · Score: 1

I drive my car while low on gasoline. It can run
out, so I hope recall it too. Geez!

Useless anyway... by oopsatwork · 2003-09-26 11:22 · Score: 2, Insightful

It is amazing how difficult it is to form an intelligent response to this article.

I can understand slashdot's collective interest in all things Segway, but I think at this point there's probably nothing more that can be said about the subject.

I see this as a parallel to a prophetic article in which the Hurd is used to power the next Furby, thus sounding the death knell for both technologies.

Furby = nearly dead retired clown, and Segway = The Hurd, in case you didn't get my analogy.

It's an interesting technology looking for a market that doesn't exist. People in densely packed cities are doing just fine with inexpensive bikes. Americans like their cars. The Segway is the butt of a lot of unfunny jokes, and publicity stunts like this.

Alright, but... by Guppy06 · 2003-09-26 11:31 · Score: 1

Who's going to be the poor bastard lugging around the diesel generator to recharge the squad's Segways when they're rolling around BFE?

shouldn't be too hard by grasshoppah · 2003-09-26 11:52 · Score: 1

i mean they have to have the phone number of the guy who bought a segwy on file somewhere. hardest part is dialing it right

Coining some new terms by mabu · 2003-09-26 13:36 · Score: 1

Segway (seg'way)

adv. - 1. The act of claiming something is secretive in order to garner attention. 2. Exaggerating the value of a product, person or service in order to sell something to another person. Did you hear about Bill's term paper on the nutritional value of beer nuts? It got an A. He totally segway'd the teacher!

n. - 1. Over-pricing and misrepresenting a product beyond its normal value. Have you seen the ads for the $153 Leptoprin weight loss pills? That's nothing but cheap vitamins they're marketing only for people who are "serious" about weight loss. What a Segway!

Kamen (Kay'man)

n. - 1. A person who pays too much for something, and is obligated to defend its value due to pride, as opposed to admitting it was a mistake. I told Bill not to buy that Cadillac Escalade. Now he can't ever find a parking space and the lemon is in the shop half the time, yet he still insists on being a Kamen.

P.S. by kfg · 2003-09-26 13:55 · Score: 1

I'm actually rather impressed with the Segway's safty record so far. 3 injuries per 6000 riders is really quite good given the nature of the machine. Bicycles do much worse. Segway says they aren't sure that the accidents were caused by the "flaw," it may well be that they were caused by the riders simply being dumbasses.

Although they didn't phrase it quite that way.

KFG

Motorcycle by slapout · 2003-09-26 16:41 · Score: 1

Not that I'm on the side of the Segway or anything, but isn't that kind of the same thing that will happen if your riding on a motorcycle and run out of gas?

--
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad

Re:Motorcycle by bhima · 2003-09-28 20:12 · Score: 1

In a word... NOMostly because of the orientation of the axis of the wheels
Please note: I am biased, I'm the proud owner of a MH900E.

--
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

WTF? by olrik666 · 2003-09-26 18:50 · Score: 1

Hundreds of thousands of Ford/GM/Whatever cars/trucks/SUVs recalled because of defects leading to severe injuries or deaths stories on /. : 0
6,000 recalled Segways that might cause *gasp* a fall story on /. : 1
You do the math.

Isn't this injury rate lower than motorcycles by GPS+Pilot · 2003-09-26 21:43 · Score: 1

They cite three injuries, "one requiring stiches," in 6000 units. This sounds a lot safer than motorcycles. Why haven't all motorcycles been recalled?

--
That that is is that that that that is not is not.

So what's the problem? by aaaurgh · 2003-09-27 00:14 · Score: 2, Funny

Just hook the thing up to one of the TZero's Range extending trailers and the problem's solved. Hell, you might even get the thing up above 15mph! ;-)

--

Go permanent? In your dreams and my worst nightmares.

They'll account for less if ... by burgburgburg · 2003-09-27 02:11 · Score: 1

they don't have to pay any taxes. Just a thought.

Re:They'll account for less if ... by ThisIsFred · 2003-09-28 07:34 · Score: 1

No, all that would be exempted would be dividends taxes. That doesn't mean that the corporation providing those dividends doesn't pay taxes on their profit, or payroll taxes, or workman's comp or unemployment.

The investor still pays income tax (if he's working; most likely since you don't make $200,000 a year on investments by sitting at home scratching your nuts), higher tax rates if he's married, tax on interest, property tax, sales tax, possibly a state income tax, capital gains tax (if an investment really pays off), the USF tax on each phone in his name, local taxes on each gallon of gasoline his cars use, driver's license fees, vehicle registration fees, emissions testing fees... Pretty much some kind of fee for everything he does, since nearly everything involves the government in some way.

There are some people that can live on interest earned from a family fortune (John Kerry's wife), but those people are few and far between. Generally everyone who has that kind of money have worked their whole lives for it, and are significant contributors - through taxation - to all the popular social programs which have sprung forth since LBJ's administration. Bush wants to eliminate double-taxation of dividends. He's not going to be able to do it, so he'll probably settle for a reduction on a small subset of the investors. I don't blame him on this one, the practice is stupid and unfair. Imagine if you paid income tax when you received your paycheck and whenever you spent a portion of it, in addition to the taxes that your employer forks over to the government just to keep you on the payroll.

--
Fred

"A fool and his freedom are soon parted"
-RMS

Fighting "Special" forces by Vexar · 2003-09-27 02:12 · Score: 1

Considering the prior, successful efforts of this inventor have been more towards "mobility" for the obese or otherwise handicapped, it brings new color to the term "special forces."

I can see Federal Motors coming out with the Hummer Short Bus any day now...

(OT) Moderation of jokes by yerricde · 2003-09-27 05:53 · Score: 1

My experience has been different. They mod up bad jokes and misconceptions as Funny, and then they mod down informative comment correcting the misconceptions as Overrated, presumably because they think the author of the informative comment didn't get the joke.

Segway, on the other hand, is a joke, except in those limited areas with no usable public transportation.

--
Will I retire or break 10K?

Segway vs. Schwinn by yerricde · 2003-09-27 05:56 · Score: 1

What does it have over moped, bicycle,electric bicycle, roller blades, walking, etc?

Unlike a bicycle, a Segway HT can be brought indoors with the rider, safe from vandalism and possible theft. It is also faster than walking, which means the rider can go farther in a one-hour commute. I'm guessing it'd be a decent solution in an area with no usable public transportation.

--
Will I retire or break 10K?

Ellen Feis' experience by sacrilicious · 2003-09-28 16:28 · Score: 1

I love the imagery involved in this.. *VROOM* *VROOM* *put* *put* *put* *creeeeek* *thump* OW!

I was, like, riding my segway, when suddenly it was like, beep beep boop beep bup beep... and then, like, my ride was over. And I was like, huh? It killed my ride. It was a really good ride. And then I had to walk, and I had to do it fast, and it wasn't as good. It was kind of a... ... bummer.

--
- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.

Bicycle Recall Announcement by diz · 2003-10-08 06:27 · Score: 1

http://nathanlaredo.com/recall.html

Slashdot Mirror

Recall of Segway Announced by CPSC

376 of 569 comments (clear)