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Canadians Pay Extra For Their Wireless Hardware
Todd Alivoy writes "Looks like
Canadian wireless subscribers have been getting hosed when looking to get new hardware. This isn't the first time Canadian carriers have managed to charge far more than thier US conterparts for the same services. Anyone up there know why? It sure isn't the exchange rates." The linked article shows the price disparity for 14 phones available in both markets.
Does that $699 charge have anything to do with SCO?
And that's how you get an easy first post--don't even RTFSummary. It's clear that they're talking about service, not hardware. I blame whoever came up with the title. Leave me alone.
True story.
That's $699 American, but in Canadian money that's $9,479 loonies, give or take a couple of dimes with polar-bear-heads on them.
Maybe it's retaliation for their drug prices
Nah, the new perscription plan is going to take care of that.
More competition = lower prices. Less competition = higher prices. (Duh.)
Also:
More customers = lower prices. Fewer customers = higher prices. (Less overhead per customer.)
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Looks like Canadian wireless subscribers have been getting hosed when looking to get new hardware.
I don't know what you mean by subscribers, but ham equipment is still a little bit expensive no matter where you're at.
Until Slashdot fixes the funny modifier, use insightful or interesting. The poster knows your intentions.
Perhaps they will set up store-front re-import shops where Canadians can buy cheap wireless gear from the US.
Some will argue that the US should not be able to get the stuff so inexpensively, that the reduced cost raises prices elsewhere. Others will argue that Canadian research firms put a lot of money into the wireless industry, and price controls would kill the industry.
Canada is much bigger than the states, but with far less people. The cost of having towers running is a nobrainer.
Because they will, until they stop allowing companies to ream them on price, companies will go for the higher returns.
It's that simple canada, don't take it.
Error 407 - No creative sig found
Which is why Europeans pay so much less for their wireless tech than Americans, I suppose.
I had a blackberry through Rogers/AT&T, and once I got the U.S. roaming package on there, it cost me $57 (CDN) per month. That's more than my 3000 kb/s cable modem internet connection (under $40 per month). I loved the blackberry, but decided to cancel the subscription.
Then, the day after I decided to cancel it, we were broken into and they stole it off the table. Reporting it stolen actually saved me the cancellation charge (~$50), and I figure whoever ended up with the hot item is getting payback by paying the high fees.
That's what I tell myself anyway. Maybe it was that Michael Moore guy... I heard he was snooping around Windsor opening people's doors.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
It has a lot more to do with carrier subsidies for the phones. Most countries in the world don't have the same system that we do in the US, where your phone will only work on the network of the carrier that sold it to you.
When a carrier gives you a discount on a phone, it makes a bet that writing off part of the cost of the phone will pay off with the contract you have to sign to use the phone on their network.
Since GSM is now fairly prevelant in the US, I've taken to buying my phones and using whatever carrier I want (ok - there are only 3 choice right now) and allows me to use my unlocked phone with any carrier around the world, as long as my phone uses a frequency that is used in that country. Hence, I have 3 very high tech phones that I can choose between, depending on what I'm doing and where I am.
That's what mobility is all about.
"This isn't the first time Canadian carriers have managed to charge far more than thier US conterparts for the same services. Anyone up there know why? It sure isn't the exchange rates."
Supply and demand.
"Derp de derp."
I am not familiar with the way cell phones work in Canada, but I would guess your suggestion would not work. If I purchase a phone in US, I cannot transfer it to another US company because of the so called provider optimization (a.k.a. cell phone lockdown). I had two absolutely exactly same cell phones, one AT&T, another non-AT&T from a friend. Once my AT&T phone died, they would not switch my service to the other phone, claiming that it has been optimized for another provider. So I would not be surprised if cell phone companies found a way to block US-to-Canada phone transfer.
I'm not sure what the reason is, but I would venture a guess that cheaper hardware/service in the US is WalMart's doing.
Exploiting cheap Canadian labor... it's disgusting.
True story.
The higher corporate tax rate and heavy regulation of Canada is encouraging these companies to pass the added expenses on to the customer.
That or there is some form of protectionist tariff designed to protect domestic telecom hardware.
It can't be a question of the companies just overcharging, if they were someone could undercut everyone else and drive them out of business.
canada needs to learn how to spell the word "their"
You don't think that this disparity is because of the ability of these companies to differentiate the cost legitimately? There is large fixed cost to be amortized in providing wireless infrastucture over such a large country, with such low population density.
Here in Vermont we have the same problem with electricity - it costs a lot when you have few customers per mile of wire (or even wireless miles). For the national utilities (like Verizon Wireless and the wired long distance carriers) they lose money on rural areas in order to provide the same bundle to all customers within the country. In rural Alaska all your long-distance calls come over satellite to ground stations that might serve 1000 people who are paying 6.2 cents a minute for long-distance!!!
Always look for a rational reason before you complain too much about conspiracies.
Don't Canadians have to pay a surcharge on recordable media to offset the effects of piracy? If so, couldn't this be the same type of thing? The government implementing a tax to offset some perceived injustice made available by wide-spread WiFI?
Although, more than likely, as others have pointed out, it's simply supply and demand.
Overrated / Underrated : Moderation
ehh
REAL penguins build their own kernels and binaries!
Even the US is getting hosed for prices
Come to the land down under just about every phone is available for $0 upfront
here is some from the big bad telco as well
so they've been hoser'ed eh?
I just paid $14.99 Canadian (after rebates) for an SMC 4 port wireless-b router. Oh sorry, I thought we were talking about wireless computer hardware.
When I signed up, I got the following for free:
- A free Motorola C350
- A free DVD Player
- Free airtime for 4 months.
I am also switching my Bell landline to a Primus Broadband VoIP line. Check it out: www.primus.ca
$34.95 CAD for 65KBytes upload and 650KBytes download.
When you sign up for service in Canada, do you have to pay a year long contract? If so, then never mind, I step down. If not, then I'd suggest that the money is still being spent, just in a different order.
Personally, I think it's just that competition's not so hot up there.
"Derp de derp."
Ok, so just a quick drive down south to Australia and I'll get a free phone? What a deal! I'll be there shortly.
Except my car's broken. Is Australia within walking distance? I'm in Vancouver. Please respond (I was banned from MapQuest).
True story.
Most of the people I know who have Cell phones, couldn't afford $500 CDN, and pay more for minutes. Cell phone companies are trying to bring in new users, so they sell the phones cheap, figuring they'll make it up over time while they make a profit on the service.
Second, the US market probably has more cell phones in the top 20-40 markets then Canada has people period. So a lot of fixed costs have to be amortized over fewer people in Canada.
Finally, everything the in US wireless market appears to be about taking it in the shorts to gain market share, and to gain volume, to drive prices down. So they are investing (read losing their shirts) tons, and tons of money, trying to steal customers away from the other carriers, and make money on slim margins. Where as the Canadian market appears to be trying to sustain profitability at a much smaller volume. This means that Canadian service is probably a much better investment (from a business perspective). 5-10 years ago, cell service was a lot more expensive down here then it is now. Pricing for service is probably about the same. Not sure about the phone pricing.
Kirby
This isn't the first time Canadian carriers have managed to charge far more than thier US conterparts for the same services. Anyone up there know why?
Well, I'm not entirely sure, but I get the distinct feeling it has something to do with Soviet Russia.
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
I'm sure there are economies of scale that could account for the price differential.
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
I don't see why everyone is out buying $500 phones.
I still have my "Zach Morris" phone which requires a backpack just to lug it around. Sure it doesn't have internet access and such, but it's does what its suppose to do, let me make telephone calls.
"Routers For Meds" Program. Each wireless router is good for one name-brand prescription or three generics.
I have a Rogers AT&T (Canada) phone (Pay as you go) and I get charged airtime when someone calls to leave me a message on the voicemail.
;-)
So I called up Rogers and asked them to deactive the voicemail, so they did. Now whenever someone calls they get "This costumer needs to setup there voicemail etc etc" and I still get charged airtime! (even when the phone is powered down)
I've called around to all the other cellphone carriers and none of them are this freakin' crazy.
Basically my plan of attack is sell the phone (brand new which seems like a waste) and go with someone like Bell or Telus.
Anyone want a phone
Candle burns its brightest in the dark
don't canadians pay extra for everything but drugs, anyway?
No Competition means higher rates, no reason to lower them, who else are you going to go to.
Thank you for that. +5, Insightful
Sincerely,
Guy Who Was Banned from Moderationdom
True story.
supply and demand. products are priced according to their markets.
in the states we pay more for cars than our canadian counterparts. frankly i'd rather pay a few bucks more for wireless hardware than a few thousand more for cars.
No they ARE talking about hardware. RTFA.
... maybe the surging Canadian dollar hasn't worked its way to the phone prices yet .. or maybe the Canadian companies can't negotiate the high volume deals the big US companies can.
It looks like you definately could buy the phone in the US to save some cash
I don't know the answer but here are some interesting stats on Canadian wireless:
...maybe it's because the Canadian phones need to include both French & English?
http://www.cwta.ca/industry_guide/facts.php3
You know you could really save a lot of money if your country went ahead and consolidated to using just French.
I didn't RTFA, but, I'd like take a leap wonder what the hell they're talking about. If it's the cost of the hardware, well, the cost is very negligable. You can get a free phone, albeit a not very good one if you sign a contract. A good phone can be had for $50. If you want to buy one without a contract you'll get hosed. Because although you won't get a contract, you'll pay more for the phone, and won't get a better deal on your rates anyway. Oh, and the phone is locked down, and we don't have number portability yet, so you might as well have a contract.
The monthly rates are very good. Comparable to the US, even not taking into account the exchange rate. I don't know what this article is talking aboot (ha ha). I think cell phones have very good prices north of the border.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
IIRC you can't use phones purchased in OZ in North America unless you buy a ghastly expensive tri-band phone. I had to sell my mobile when I left the UK for that reason. And it is the service that is the major problem, as they are selling the phones.
:-)
Ah, how I miss my Virgin Mobile service...buying top-up cards when I needed them rather than paying a monthly fee for minutes I may or not use, and not getting charged for the calls that you receive?! I re-emphasise "service"; what a concept
Anyone want to arrange a deal where we trade cheap cel-phones for high-flow toilets? I think we could work something out.
It's good to use your head, but not as a battering ram.
bell 2 yr contract. $35. free unlimited evenings and weekends (6 pm to 8 am. yes, 14 hours FREE). upgraded to a samsung phone from the crap motorola i had with the free tech upgrade. customer service is unbelievable. mind you, i have a low daytime minutes per month, but hey, why would i answer my personal phone when i am at work?
so how is $35 a month for a free phone and unlimited evenings and weekends expensive?
You hoser.
I don't know what the author is rambling on about.. I just bought a Fido phone (Siemens A56) with 3 months of service for $75 CDN.
The monthly plan is $25/month = 100 weekday minutes plus 1000 weekend/evening minutes AND all Fido-to-Fido calls and SMS are free. That's $19 USD per month.. AND a free phone.
And to top it all off, Fido subsidizes all their handsets AND you're never locked into any contract - it's all on a monthly basis. No complaints here when it comes to cell phone prices or cell phone plans in Canada..
- One Happy Fido Customer.
... yeah. That's what I meant... No trolling going on here. Move right along.
True story.
Assuming the price is at equilibrium with supply and demand for both markets that means Canadians are willing to bear a higher price.
Of course the fact is that Canada's economy is more socialistic than than the US also plays into it too (the reason for the drug prices being different).
I see you're falling right into their trap. That's exactly what they WANT you to do!
True story.
You mean, the same things in different countries have different prices?
What a stunning observation.
Canada is not the US. You will find a great many things where prices are not the same, some higher, some lower, sometimes by a lot either way.
Telus Mobility is offering the Samsung SPH I700 for $1049.00 Can Verizon offers the same phone for $699.00 US which is not that different. From what I understand, cellular phone companies actually lose quite a lot of money every time they sell you a phone. I think that the Canadian companies, competing for a smaller market, have gotten fed up with the losses. Microcell and Telus have yet to make any profit on their cellular division. I do not know about Rogers and Bell. So, the higher prices may simply reflect a refusal on their part to be burned for a client.
Compared to other countries, the US / Canada prices for IT products and bandwidth is way cheaper than anywhere else in the World. Australia for instance (where I am from) are playing forever catch up. Where mobile phone calls, ISP charges, IT books are still overlypriced, even with our dollar at a reasonable 80 cents to the US greenback.
You don't think that this disparity is because of the ability of these companies to differentiate the cost legitimately? There is large fixed cost to be amortized in providing wireless infrastucture over such a large country, with such low population density.
Here in Vermont we have the same problem with electricity - it costs a lot when you have few customers per mile of wire (or even wireless miles). For the national utilities (like Verizon Wireless and the wired long distance carriers) they lose money on rural areas in order to provide the same bundle to all customers within the country. In rural Alaska all your long-distance calls come over satellite to ground stations that might serve 1000 people who are paying 6.2 cents a minute for long-distance!!!
Always look for a rational reason before you complain too much about conspiracies.
America owns!
Subsidy lockout exists because cell phones don't actually cost $50-$100, they are alot more and the provider pays most of that price counting on customers using their service long enough to make up their investment, if you buy a phone at it's actual cost you will be able to use it on any compatable network, but with the mess that is the current cell network in the US i'll stick to subsidy locked cheap phones for now.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
Canada population is only 8.5% of US's, to that reduce the number of people that live in poverty adn those who can affort it pay for it.
The number of carriers in Canada is very low compared to US's.
There is a BIG alliance between cdn carriers, some kind of psuedo monopoly, like the goverment itself.
Most politics in Canada lobby for private sectors over anything else.
Maybe the Canadian gov taxes the phones without canadians knowing about it.
And in the light side, Canadians are to drunk to see when they are getting ripped paying for wireless services.
Long term customers of Rogers get their cell phones for free.
:)
I've been with them for almost 10 years, and I only paid for my first phone, which was one of those old Motorola bag phones...remember them?
About every 2 years I've been offered a choice of a new phone for no charge, and they've always given me a good selection to choose from. My latest is the Nokia 3595 which I received about 6 months ago...and it's a great phone.
I suspect that the article is right when it comes to new customers signing up, or customers that only want to go on pay as you go plans. In those situations Rogers can't be sure that they will come ahead by giving you the phone for free. But if you're a long term customer they certainly look after you and make sure that you always have a fairly modern phone.
I don't know if US carriers do the same but it seems reasonable to me. Why give phones away if you haven't got some assurance that your customers will stick around?
I can't complain about the rates either although I don't know what the US carriers rates are to compare with. I used to have the Digital 1 plan when I did a lot of travelling (both in the US and Canada) and long distance, international roaming charges, unlimited text messaging, and 1000 daytime minutes (evenings and weekends unlimited) cost me about $100 a month. The amount of time I used the phone combined with the fact that most of my calls were always long distance sure seemed like a good deal to me.
I've always felt I've got a fair shake up here.
-Pat
TAXES...of course, it can also be because some govt/customs guy put the decimal point at the wrong spot in the USD to Canadian conversion.....
Uhhh.......blame Canada?
"There is no spoon." - The Matrix
actually, gsm phones are now being supported in the US. i'm not sure if you could bring your phone from there (outside the US) to here (in the US) but I know my gsm phone works there.
also, i believe the US does have one thing right - if you're on a cell phone, you should pay for airtime. yes, it may be nice for you not to worry about minutes on incoming calls, but then the cost is simply put on the caller. who wants to worry about the cost of calling someone on a cell phone? it was a problem at a company i worked for in the UK - we avoided calling mobiles because we didn't want to pay by the minute.
Know what I like about atheists? I've yet to meet one that believes God is on their side.
...to make up for their relatively affordable internet access.
This sounds just ridiculous. I think you should complain to the CRTC. Sometimes that wakes those clowns up !
I recently signed up with Fido Canada for their City Fido service, which is unlimited local calling and costs only 40$ CDN a month. I've replaced my home phone with a cell phone it was so cheep.
Still #1 -- Lonely Gay Geek
Is Australia within walking distance? I'm in Vancouver.
Yeah, sure. Just start walking southwest. There's a little bit of water, but don't worry. It's real shallow and you'll have no problem walking through it.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
I live in Canada and the one thing that made me give up my cell phone plan was the dreaded monthly "Access Fee."
I had a plan that was $20 for 200 minutes any time, but on top of this EVERYONE is required to pay a $7.95 access fee regardless of what plan they're using. So if you're a businessperson with a $100 a month plan you end up paying what amounts to an 8% tax, but if you are a po' ass student like me you end up paying an insane %40 tax (plus you also have to pay %15 tax on top of the total amount). INSANE.
All providers in Canada charge this fee. It seems to be governemnt mandated, although I think I read once that the individual providers are allowed to set what the fee is but they all decided to make it 7.95.
IMHO this is why we don't have wider adoption of mobible phones in Canada.
Also I'm not sure how it is in other countries but every text message you send with SMS costs 10 cents. So if you want to send a text message to your friend's mobile phone that says "Hi Jane how are you?" that's ten cents.. then if she replies "I'm good, yourself?" another ten cents, and on and on. My carrier (fido) had a "introductory period" where they gave away the text messaging for free and a lot of people were using it. Now that it's 10 cents per message (I think it's max 256 characters) NOBODY USES IT. I mean come on, does it really cost them 10 cents to transmit a 256 character max plain text message? I think if they charged 1 cent per message they would make more money because people would actually use the service.
Walking through it? I was planning on walking on top of it.
True story.
There is one and only one reason that phones are so cheap in the States. (It isn't that they are more expensive in Canada).
Craig McCaw and bro's changed the rules of cellular in the United States. There belief was that it was "the subscriber" uber alles. That all else would just follow. In other words, you have to give away the expensive phones to get the subscriber. A large part of the cellular network has been paid on the backs of investors and lenders in Bankruptcy court, and the McCaws made billions selling out to ATT while the getting was good.
It is going to be more difficult to get new players (capital) to play the same game and risk that kind of capital that would likely be lost in a massive buildup of customers. Canada, just doesn't have a McCaw to rock the boat, and force everyone to play a different game. They do have Canadian Tire money though!
The prices are obviously set by NASA. You see, in Canada, they use the metric system, and NASA thought they were going to go metric, but some of the guys didn't get that memo...
It was an honest mistake, folks, really. It's like rocket science.
Or maybe...
The computer industry did it! I mean, when did you ever buy a 40 GB hard drive that actually was 40 GB? They might have told Samsung to charge $400 for a $372.52 phone and say they were measuring the price differently. Yeah. If you're the only ones who measure it that way, it isn't different - it's wrong.
I really hate signatures, but go to my website.
I always see shit like,
59.99 USD
799,999.999 CDN.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
The real reason is because Rogers is a load of scum sucking assholes. They outright lie to you, and they'll get away with whatever they can.
There's a reason nearly all the examples are Rogers.
Summer before last (2002), a German guy stayed at my place for a month, while his gf was going to a local college. They both used their German phones in the states, although they primarily stuck to text services, to keep the costs down.
:)
They *may* have mentioned buying new phones specifically so they'd be compatible, but I'm not sure, it *was* a couple of years ago
jred
I'm not a mechanic but I play one in my garage...
I honestly do not know why this article was even posted in the first place. It should be no surprise to anyone that one thing in one country will cost something else in another country. A visa versa example of this "Canada cell phones more expensive than the US" deal is the US's struggle with the drug companies. People drive to Canada, because the prices are lower in Canada. If anyone IS surprised by varying prices among different countries, they really have to look around and think about what kind of world this is.
Now I can't speek about cell services, but the same company from which I get DSL also provides cell access. I can only imagine that if they charge more for the phones it is because they charge less for service.
One thing that people must remember is that people have less money in Canada - less expensive plans are more desirable. This gives individuals a cheaper alternative - admittedly with a cheaper cell phone. At least many people that would normally scoff at cell phones because of their high monthly costs will sign up.
IIRC you can't use phones purchased in OZ in North America unless you buy a ghastly expensive tri-band phone
h on eid=166753&class=phone
. asp?phon eid=191381&class=phone
w .asp?phon eid=195350&class=phone
The thing that always bugged me about buying dual band phones, rather then tri-bands, is the store staff never seems to know which bands they support. I mean, a dual band bought in Aus likely wouldn't work in america, and visa versa.
But I've noticed that some phones are offered are tri-bands and they are not all that gastly expensive at all here in america, here is one example
http://www.t-mobile.com/products/overview.asp?p
Motorola V66 - (tri-band: 900, 1800, & 1900 MHz) $49.99 or free after mail in rebate.
Nokia 6610 900 / 1800 / 1900 mhz $149.99 or $99.99 after mail in rebate
http://www.t-mobile.com/products/overview
Sony Ericsson T610.. which was free for many consumers with dockable camera, but now costs $199.99 or $99.99 after mail in rebate.
http://www.t-mobile.com/products/overvie
Other wise...
Get a pay as you go phone in your region of choice... In america I know that t-mobile offers gsm phones for $99.99... pop your chip in and hey.. victory
or
Hit a thrift shop in america... plenty of older dual band phones to choose from, for $5.00... victory!
So yea, if you want a tri-band based on my shopping today, you'd have to shell out a minium of $50.00 and might get that back in the mail.
I'm not sure what's up in Aus on the subject.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
...a fact of which I am deeply ashamed.
And the short answer is "it's more expensive because they can get away with it."
But yes, it does come down to basic economic, with the corporate greed angle tossed in. Canada is a smaller market, with fewer competitors (4 national, plus a few regional). So the wireless carriers CAN charge more because the consequences of doing so not as great. Plus, the major carriers tend to follow each other quite closely. If one finds a way to charge more for something and get away with it, the others will quickly follow -- why should the other guy be the only one to make more?
IMO, the Canadian wireless industry is not particularly customer oriented -- they are competitor-oriented. It's not so much about "how can I win more customers through my excellent handsets and plan" as it is about "how can I get my ARPU higher than the competitors and my Churn lower, thus sticking it to the competition when the rankings are published." If the customer happens to benefit, it's a nice consequence.
That's why the CityFido plan (you probably haven't heard of this unless you're in Vancouver, but you can transfer your landline number to a wireless number, and you get $40/month unlimited local calling) sent the Canadian wireless industry into a tizzy. The other 3 national carriers began running some pretty harsh Fido switch promotions -- particularly on the East coast, where Fido is based. Makes some sense on a competitor level (take out Fido where they are strongest) but not on a consumer level (Easterners who've never heard of CityFido can't understand why the big 3 carriers are all going after the little guy.)
Mind you, Fido has had financial difficulties lately, so they probably had to pull a gutsy move like this. The rest of the industry doesn't see how Fido's model is sustainable.
But on the other hand, some stuff just costs more here. Hence the people who cross the boarder every month to shop.
I can spell. I just can't type.
Besides monthly fee charged by the provider, Canadian have to pay for SAF ($7) and 911 fee ($0.25). There are no such fee in US.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
They have to charge more because the techs that install towers didn't want to go near Celine Dion's house.
Im canadian, you insensitive clod.
The article compare prices of phones not service plan
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Prices for everything connected to cell phone service in the USA have taken a nose dive recently because number portablity went into effect, and every carrier has been doing their best to try to poach every other carrier's subscribers as a result. That's competition at its best.
Cell phone service will always have to be a regulated marketplace because always going to be a limit on how many providers can be using the finite resources of wireless frequencies. How effective that regulation turns out to be will always be the deciding factor in how mcuh cell service costs, and how much the celluar providers have to contribute to our puchase of devices in the form of subsidies. It's nice to see that by at least one yardstick of measurement, the FCC must be doing a pretty good job...
You (Canadians) send me prescription drugs, and I (American) send you wireless gear. Everyone saves money!
(and something like 99% coverage for mobiles)
From the Department of Communications, etc's website:
3. How much mobile coverage is there?
GSM and CDMA networks cover up to 97.5 per cent of the Australian population and 13.7 per cent of the Australian landmass. This is expected to increase to more than 98 per cent coverage of the population and around 18 per cent coverage of the landmass upon completion of the rollout of Commonwealth funded infrastructure under various targeted funding initiatives.
Satellite mobile phone services cover 100 per cent of the population and landmass, including the external territories.
How can this company do that? If they know the "secret handshake" it takes to unlock a phone, why can't just anybody do it?
I checked the price for the 270 here in Los Angeles: $349.99 + a $100 rebate. That works out to $446.51 CDN + $127.55 CDN rebate. Sounds like the Rogers deal is pretty good by comparison.
The moral of the story: cell phone deals are *very* regional, and while you might be able to get a great deal in one town, you won't find such a great one elsewhere. It has nothing to do with which country you are in.
sigs are a waste of space
Why is Slashdot *constantly* trying to divide it's readership up into nations and pit us against one another? Constantly they do this.
BTW, I am American and usually I object to the anti-US articles.
maybe we just don't buy as many of the pricey phones as yanks? add in a population smaller than cali and that's going to affect the numbers.
won't be the only reason, but it'll be in there. for basic phones and basic packages, it's pretty cheap up here. mine was essentially free after package kickback, is about four years old and works fine, has basic msg service etc, and costs $10/mo for a reasonable slice of base time charged at the second.
i could buy a new phone, but *why*? there's no killer app worth hundreds yet. quite possibly our market doesn't have the same interest in the upper end as in the states, so it's going to cost more for those who want the gucci. the author should not presume we're demographically identical.
The parent post is copied from here. Mod down as such.
well that's all well and good that they say a phone costs this much, but there's one small fact that they're missing ALL canadian providers give you a discount on the phone for a term contract, so in reality you DON'T pay the full price
all the phones they listed are the base price WITHOUT a package deal, and most of the american conterparts had a thing about it being free with a deal and such
the thing most people don't realise is that america has 300 million people canada has 30 million. another thing is that most phones aren't made in canada, the blackberry is the exceptoin so there's an import and other such taxes and special chips and such.
Prices are almost always set high initially when a product comes to market, to grab the early adopters willing to pay anything. Then they gradually drop to attract the more price-conscious consumers. So the article is comparing bleading edge Canadian prices, against US prices that have been getting discounted for a while. So of course the US phones are going to be cheaper.
It's mostly Americans/United States people who invented/creacted/developed many technologies that go into cell phones and designed them. If it weren't for the global economy it wouldn't be too surprising for there to be no cell phones in Canada at all.
the US market probably has more cell phones in the top 20-40 markets then Canada has people period.
I'd venture to say California has more cell phones than Canada has people.
Most Germans buy their VW's from Italy, but the lucky few buy their upper class Porsches and Mercedes from the USA.
It's up to 30 percent cheaper for some models.
see AC comment above.
I will be selling all the cell phones that I can out of the back of red rental car.
I think Colombia and West Second might be a good place.
Something that bugs the crap out of me is the cell phone companies in Canada don't reward you for being a long time customer. I assume it's the same state side.
Sign up for a 1 or 2 year plan, get a free phone. Once that 1 or 2 years are up, they only offer you either 3 months unlimited calling or a $75 CAD credit towards a new phone at practically full rate.
If you didn't care and cancelled your service, you could go ahead and get that new phone with a new number.
But it's annoying as hell to get someone else's old number and all their calls to you for the next six months.
My contract came up and I love my Nokia 6160. Only complaint is the battery life is shorte. I asked if they could give me the $75 credit towards a new battery, they told me no. Only a new phone would work.
Needless to say, I went with the upgrade to a 6360 to maintain compatability with most of my accessories.
Its those damn beavers chewing on the AP antennas eh.
Its kind of a trade off, eh? I mean, prescription drugs are cheaper in Canada than in the US, but electronics are more expensive, eh? If it weren't for the cold, Canada could become the next Florida or Arizona and attract all the retiring elderly from the US ya know.
Imagine what that would do for the voter turn out?
If I were Canadian, I'd just cross the boarder for my cell phone. I think its just a product of economics (less demand, etc) rather than an evil plot to keep Canadians disconnected from the rest of the western world. You betcha.
-j
haud servio tui deus neque tui diabolus huad servio tui regalis neque tu
My computer froze when I went onto the primus.ca web site. Thanks Primus! :-
Kinda what I did when I saw the highspeed internet price.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
1 EUR = $1.2
Actually it would be better not to account the exchange rate. Use 1/1 for comparison.
These prices don't include a plan. Most quality phones simply don't come with a plan in Belgium. They are more focused on the cheaper phones.
BTW: Why doesn't /. accept € ?
StarTrek.org Free Webmail
In the Canadian model, the phone won't be locked and it truly is "yours". And you don't need to get a new phone every time you change services.
It's unbelievable that the article author portrays the American model as preferable. You pay the same sum (taking into account that money for those phones has to come from somewhere and that's from your monthly bill!) for less choice. No wonder USA is still in the stone age when it comes to mobile phones.
I have a landline only so that I can have DSL. The phone company will only track DSL circuts by phone number, to force you to have one. Fine, not like phone lines are expensive. The basic monthly charge for a landline is $13.18USD here. Now on top of that there is about 6 taxes, as one would expect, that are for the most part porportional to the amount you pay for service. They total like $3.50. Ok, great..... Then there is a fixed $6.50 "federal access charge". Umm, excuse me? fixed at like half the cost of the line?
Net effect being you end up paying a total of over $21 for a basic line.
Long distance providers have something similar, but worse: The Universal Service Fund fee. This is a percentage of your bill, but that percentage is set by the provider. So sometimes you'll have a company that charges less per minute but ends up being more expensive per minute in the end.
I always assumed that wireless was some kind of business, with (at least the expectation of) profits as the goal.
:(567.0)
All Canadian Wireless carriers (except Satellite); Source: Industry Canada
Total net profit (loss) to date:
1997
1998: (743.0)
1999: (789.7)
2000: (808.6)
2001+ (no data, but I sense a trend)
So, a couple-or-three of $ Billion down the tube, and people still want a $20 phone. Call me crazy, but it seems they're pricing the phones as cheap as they can already.
Look at Sonystyle.ca vs Sonystyle.com
Same minidisc player much more in same currency. Same for many of their products. I think I saw the same with microphones.
they are not that smart.
When you're in retail business, you can't waste valuable time doing all that math. It's much easier to just double the price.
I bought my phone last month for $29.95 plus tax right from the phone company. A Canadian phone company. ($C33.84/$US 26.57).
150 anytime minutes, call display/name display/text messaging; for $29 a month ($US 22.77). 2-year contract. My cell habits are about 60 minutes a month, half of that long distance. They charged me another $2 for last month's long distance (37 minutes).
I can call to (and receive calls from) any other SaskTel wireless user for free (no airtime charges, doesn't count against my 150 minutes). SaskTel has over 90% of the market province-wide, mostly because Rogers is so inept that nobody (including myself) will stay with them. 3 years with Rogers was more than enough; I can't believe I waited so long to switch. Night and Day.
I could have bought the phone outright (replace a phone or use prepaid service) for $150 (US $ 117).
I could have bought an unlocked one for the same price online (3 vendors checked).
It's a Nokia 3586i.
For a comprehensive list of Wireless options in Canada, go to I Hate Rogers
There are a couple of wireless options I could have taken in my area and they were all quite similarly priced. SaskTel has the most towers.
Our ADSL is way cheaper and way faster than yours. And more importantly, the big providers are trying to kill each other at any cost. So they're selling a $45 service for only $30, funded primarily by their shareholders and their respective monopolies on cable and telephone service.
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
I just looked at the cost of sucharges. On their cheapes plan, ATT charges an astronomical 69c for extra minutes, on a comparable plan from Bell the rate is 25c per minute. Its these surcharges that really get you.
Anyone that has worked in retail also understands that someone buying 18k cell phones will get a better deal from the manufacturer than the guy buying 1800 or 1000.
I'm sure the CRTC has its regulatory fingers in the Cell carriers pockets too. I'm still not sure how they justify taking my money and passing it off to Canadian artists even though I've burned maybe 3 audio cd's in my lifetime.
Memorex 100-Pack 48x CD-R Disc Spindle (Mfr. Part Number 3202-4581)
USA = $37.99 ($48.38 CDN)
Canada = $79.99 CDN
(Future Shop is owned by Best Buy BTW)
I live in the Toronto area so using Fido's network is sufficient for me. It depends on your needs. But I do not buy Fido phones, Fido was one of the first companies that supported SimCards which allowed me to use phones that I purchase and like (provided it was unlocked) and not get locked in because of the phone.
I also use the pre-paid plan. I basically pay around $10 per month, with the remaining time rolled over. Sure the price per minute is more expensive, but if you do not tend to use it much its a pretty good deal.
Archie - CIO-for-hire
Competition in Europe has really pushed down prices. Here in the UK I just bought a P900 for 70 with a 12 month contact of 45/month (400 mins/month to any other land line or mobile).
Competition in Europe has really pushed down prices. Here in the UK I just bought a P900 for 70 GBP with a 12 month contact of 45 GBP/month (400 mins/month to any other land line or mobile).
Perhaps Canadian wireless prices are under the influence of the same shadowy forces responsible for American pharmaceutical prices.
Once talking to a group of people from all over the world (IRC), and it seemed all the Germans had their own cell phones (apparently it is *very* common over there), as did a lot of Americans. Canadians on the other hand (I don't know what it is), there is not much of a demand for wireless services. Just a few weeks ago a friend of mine received a cell phone from his parents and his reaction was "Why do I need this? How much is this going to cost me?" It turned out to be one of those "Pay-as-you-Go" which in my opinion has a good intention but is a complete rip off. Also a couple weeks ago I got a good deal from BAKA wireless (who uses Bell Mobility services and towers). I paid about $15 for the phone (AudioVox something-or-other) with free activation. The montly fee is $20 a month (CAD) with free weekends, 250 anytime minutes, free voicemail, call forwarding, caller ID, etc. In my opinion, that is a kick ass deal. And yes it's digital reception.
So how often do I use it? Honestly, almost never. Usually whenever I'm out and need to make a call, I pump a quarter into the closest pay phone. Why? I have my reasons:
1) Delay. Altough it's only about a 0.25 voice delay, it's really noticable (to me) and I find it really hard to have a decent conversation without constantly cutting eachother off.
2) Can't hear my voice. I've actually got laughed at for this reason many times, but is it just me, or it is so much easier talking on a regular phone because you can hear your voice as you talk? To me it's like confirmation that the person on the other line can hear me. On a cell phone it is a little awkward to me, almost like talking to a wall and not sure if it's going to respond and constantly confirming "Hello are you still there?"
This is only a temporary setback whilst global trade switches from Dollars to Euros, then global cash reserves will be in Euros and not Dollars. Canadians should be able to pay the same as Americans, but not Europeans who will of couse be the ones paying less (and therefore getting the credit for their 'better' economy)!
And I'd love to see a price comparison between homes in the SF Bay Area to homes in even relatively populated areas like Victoria, BC. What's a few hundred bux when you're getting a home for 1/10th the cost? Who's really getting hosed here?
The CB App. What's your 20?
Taxes matter.
I just got a Motorola phone from Fido for $12 net,
Including 12V car power supply and headphones. (from Telephone Booth). The only plan requirement is 3 months at $25/mo.
Linksys 802.11b routers can often be had for $79 at Staples/Future Shop.
Brand-X 802.11b router plus USB adapter $90 a Costco.
These are Canadian Dollars, so multiply by 0.80 for U.S.
I don't know where the rest of these so called Canadians have been living all their lives, but let me tell you, EVERYTHING is more expensive here. It's the Canadian way, for Christ's sake.
Example: Comprehensive health care for a family of four in most parts of the US is about 6000$ a year. I pay more than 20000$ just for myself, and I should count myself luckly if I can get to see a doctor within two weeks, and a specialist within a year.
Why are cell phones more expensive in Canada? Socialism. I have no doubt there are at least fourteen hidden taxes from the various levels of government buried in the price of every damn thing I buy.
Must be those hoser bureaucrats, eh?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
its interesting here in korea, 44 million people in a country the size of ohio, everyone has cell phones (CDMA2000) and everyone is tightly packed into a few major cities... the phones are only barely subsidized if at all ! the colour ones cost between (approx) $400 and $600 ! oh and service isnt that cheap either, I think my girlfriend pays around $100 a month for her service... but shes an odd case, I think most people pay around $50.
Yay me! ^^
Looking at those prices, the equivelent phones are still cheaper than the US over here in the UK!
And before you say the words "Plan" well even OFF a plan, those same phones are *much* cheaper here. and on a plan, we get many phones for free what you have to pay through your teeth.
Competition really works..
Have a nice day!
Sounds like the Supply side Jesus is punishing you for allowing your government to negotiate cheap drugs.
1. Trade American cell phones for Canadian Viagra 2. ??? 3. Profit!
*holds up sign reading: "Will Trade WIFI for Drugs"*
I subscribe to data only, "unlimited" GPRS plan from Fido @ $60 /month.
I just got a mail from Fido that the unlimited plan has a limit of 1 gigabyte per month. Their lettre allowed me up to the end of the month to "correct" my usage or "you will be contacted to help you limit your usage".
Now, $60 a month for 1 Gig total may sound like an overkill, and it is considering that in Canada you pay only CDN$ 44/month for unlimited high speed cable connection downloading ISO's in less than an hour, but other wireless providers, like Bell, Tellus and AT&T Rogers, charge $10 per megabyte. Most don't offer a limited "unlimited" plans, and some offer an unlimited period for the first couple of months as a promotion.
If you monitor a remote server, and leave "top" running 24 hrs a day, you'll break the one gig limit within a couple of days.
Now I started to switch cards on my Zaurus, GPRS card when no Wifi siganl is available, and switch to Wifi when I find it. It's a PITA to try to stay within the unlimited limit. It's a hassle, since it will break your SSH connection, and need to reconnect.
As for hardware, the few wireless providers here in Canada who know what a CF card format is, charge $400-$500 dollars for them, and they all have firmware to not be compatible with any other provider. The only exception I found is Fido, where I was able to purchase a card from the US on eBay, and plug into the Fido GPRS network. It only took me 3 phone calls to convince the tech support I don't need to purchase any phones from them, and that my CF card works just like their own PCMCIA cards.
Of course, you can subscribe to US providers from Canada, however you'll be paying roaming fees, so it's not that practical.
Yes, BUT... consider the hiptop. The "sidekick" useres in the states already have a software upgrade, which we do not, and they have WAY cheaper plans, which we also don't have. Fido's unlimited GPRS packages rings in at about 50$ CDN, whereas some basic plans in the states cover that AND call minutes for less money.
Obviously they charge us up-the-bum for these services becuase, as others have said, there aren't many people to make money off of, so they need to make more money off fewer customers, and it's especially apparent with a bizzarre device like the hiptop.
Considering tho, the Fido hiptop was on promotion for only 250$ and that doesn't lock you to a contract, I'd say it's a pretty good deal compared to our southern brethren. (wo do have contracts, and pay more for the phone, etc. etc.)
you know, now i guess this is why they've called them "hosers". i never understood that...
coming across the border. Greedy American (redundant?) companies mark up the prices well beyond the exchange rate because they think we won't notice.
He wants to switch. His only GSM Option is FIDO. Do try and follow the thread.
1.) TCO hello? Hello! here is a link to my cell companies phones and here to their monthly packages.
This is a listing from one monthly package, if you don't want to click.
The minutes are billed by the second, this means if you make five 12 second calls, you may not have gone over the first minute and it'll cost about ten cents, Canadian, for all five.(Hi honey, I'm on my way. Anything I can pick up? - No, I've ordered Thai food and we're set for the movie at eight, should I open the wine, or should we have beer? - Beer's better with Thai, see you in twenty. - Bye. - Bye.)
There is no monthly contract, you can quit anytime you like. Or call them up and change the plan on a moments notice.
"Starting next billing period I'm going to be with an American client and we'll be calling the states for a lot of checkups, put me on the long distance plan for a month." (Oh that gives you 4 hours and ten minutes of long distance for five bucks.)
TCO Total Cost of Ownership Hello??!!?
And our healthcare is free too.
There are only four cell phone companies in Canada because the Canadian government decided only four companies would be given spectrum licenses. The government said that if there were more than four companies there would be too much competition and if there were less than four companies there would not be enough comptetion. Yeah, free markets!
Canadians get drugs almost for free, that are made in the US, and are priced so high in the US that most Americans can't afford to buy without insurance (and even then the costs drive many people into the poorhouse). So Canadians have to pay a little more for a phone than Americans? Wahhh... Quit whining already.
It's because they're Canadian!
They let their best friend get into a fight and won't even help out!
It's a good thing for them they make Labatt's Blue and Molsen Golden, or we would have nuked them back into the stone age years ago!
Kenny P.
Visualize Whirled P.'s
Not 1/10th - more like 1/4. It _was_ 1/5th until odious george's brilliant handling of the us economy crashed the USD so badly.
It's still enough that I'm moving up to (near) Victoria tomorrow. No mortgage, no need to worry about making huge bux. No Ahnold, no george, no rude SFBA drivers.
Maybe we can work out some trade agreement where we in the US can get cheap prescription drugs from Canada for our cheap wireless equipment.
It sounds WONderful. Need a roommate or two? I can play guitar and my fiancee is a great cook if you like vegetarian food...
The CB App. What's your 20?
I'll pay twice as much for my handset up front, but I could leave it on while I drive across the country, west coast to east, and not be dinged for "roaming" fees from an unscrupulous little provider in the middle of a highway somewhere...
Not that I think you are wrong, you could be very right, but I want to see it. I like tangible results from surveys and corp data that I can see and touch. Otherwise, the arguement makes no sense.
I think that we have more purple monsters with green striped hair in Canada than in the US. And I know that these monsters directly influence wireless purchase pricing, well cause I said so.
Dont laugh, your arguement, without proof, is no better. Slashdotters really need a logic lesson. Just cause it makes sense and more people agree with you than with others, doesn't mean that you are right.
www.madeofwinandawesome.com
Comprehensive health care for a family of four in most parts of the US is about 6000$ a year. I pay more than 20000$ just for myself I don't know what Canada you're living in, but you pay nothing in mine... You do pay general taxes, part of which pays for your health care. The US spends more on health care than Canada... and they don't even cover everyone.
Nokia is from Finland.
From their website:
Nokia Head Office
Keilalahdentie 2-4
P.O. Box 226
FIN-00045 Nokia Group
Finland
Tel. +358 7180 08000
This is what I as a proud Canuck call the "we Canadians get the shaft and we're too passive to do anything about it" syndrome. Now, if it involved hockey/healthcare/toques/etc. THEN we'd get angry.
In the US, every cell phone you buy is carrier locked; additionally, phones can only be purchased from carriers. Any chance there are any anti-trust issues regarding these practices?
Canada has over 30 million people most reside in less than 20% of the country. In a city like Calgary, Vancouver, Toronto - people are just as densely populated as in US cities. In fact, many US cities are less densely populated than their Canadian counterparts. Take Calgary with millions of empty acres parsing out lots with 30 foot frontages and 70 foot depths. In the US these are slum sized lots.
The real issue is government sponsored monoplies like Bell, Shaw, Telus and Rogers. It is a lack of competition and not a economic scale issue.
If the Canadian government would truly open up competition in telephone and cable companies prices would drop fast. There are multiple artifical bariers against a competative environment. But the government likes the kickbacks.
Mission is no where near Vancouver. It's one of those scary places we keep our religious wackos so they'll only hurt each other.
Interesting! I know that when I was looking into buying a phone that I could bring home the only options were priced around 200GBP+ ($450-500CDN). Maybe your post will be helpful to some other readers.