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Wal*Mart continues push for RFID adoption
John3 writes "Wal*Mart is continuing to push for vendors to add RFID tags to cases of products for easier tracking through their warehouse distribution system. Most vendors have until 2006 to comply, but their top 100 suppliers must have the tags in place by 2005. Wal*Mart stopped their push for retail level tagging last summer, but by forcing tagging at the wholesale level the cost of the technology will drop as vendors comply with Wal*Mart's decree. How long before price is no longer a barrier to RFID item level tagging?"
They care about profits, not people.
They care about profits, not privacy.
Wal*Mart is evil, and you should avoid their stores like the plague. Use local grocery stores and department stores whenever possible.
Background: 28/M/Bi-Sexual; Owner of a Linux company; MBA Harvard 2003; B.S. Comp Sci MIT 2000
It'll be easier that barcodes - thus faster to pay and leave the store.
:)
In fact you can just pay on your way out without really having to queue, just walk thru the rfid scanner gateway gadget thing..
You'll be able to get into walmart, pick up a pack of tin-foil hats and leave in no time
Last.fm - join the social music revolution
Same thing with barcodes longtime ago. It makes a big difference in productivity. omi
... as store greeters
Stick a bar code thingy one some ones back and watch them set off the alarm as they walk out the door.
From the article: "RFID tags contain a small chip and an antenna, usually coiled, to broadcast a signal. They were originally attached to Allied planes in World War II to distinguish them from enemy aircraft.
I find this hard to believe. Maybe they mean that the mechanism is the same ? Can somebody please shed some light on this ?
As usual, Wally World is asking others to innovate on their behalf, to their benefit, and asking the supplier to foot the bill. The suppliers don't have a choice, because if you're not in Wal~Mart, you're not anywhere.
Big company bad, profits bad. Shame shame. Yup, the masses would have never thought of this on their own.
I'm sure the poster only keeps enough of his earnings to live a very meager existance and donates the rest to charity (after all, he cares about people, not profits). Also the user expects binoculars and telescopes to be outlawed (only useful to evil folks who want to peek in on your bisexual activity).
I think that RFID will easily replace the barcode within the next 2 to 3 years. Like you were asking, when is the price going to go down? Right now it's low, very low but still more than printing a barcode. RFID technology is still growing and the tags are becoming smaller. In 2 to 3 years the price will be pennies.
Don't expect retailers to adopt it right away though. People watch and follow WalMart but no one really adopts new ideas like they do. I'm not endorsing them or even condoning them, just observing. Think about other retailers, go into their stores and see what kind of registers they're running. Look at see what kind of LDT/LRTs they're running. That will give you an idea of where they're at. Registers running DB9s, DB25s, Null Modem Cables, Pentium I and II class processors and even older technology...
The point is that retailers are too slow to adapt to new technology because it cuts into their numbers.
There is a library or two in Michigan that use RFID tech on all of their books. It's great they can locate a book by running a scan for it and go to the exact location. Imagine being able to find that last can of Chicken Noodle soup. Where's my soup dammnit?!?
-Scott
Wal-Mart is implementing this system to better track their inventory and manage it. What privacy right of yours or mine does it affect?
The tin-foil hat brigade on slashdot hates RFID even when it has nothing to do with them. It's amazing that people to immediately defend p2p's legitimate uses, but not RFID.
SIG:Slashdot: indymedia for nerds.
How long before price is no longer a barrier to RFID item level tagging?
How long until item-level tagging is a barrier to Asprin-level buying?
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
As I understand it, current RFID solutions are based on small silicon chips - which are probably going to remain rather expensive, even in bulk (at least compared to a bar code). The real explosion of RFID will probably come with the commercialisation of any of the large-scale non-vacuum deposition semiconductor techniques - printable metals, organic polymer transistors etc.
If there is profit in it, your rights will be steamrolled.
First the cases will be tagged, then the products.
If WalMart cared about rights, they would pay employees what they owe them
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
I don't have a problem with Wal*Mart using RF to track, stock and sell their wares. I mean as a consumer, hasn't had a bar code or worse, a price tag slapped across the instructions. And I'm sure it would be nice from a store manager's point of view to merely walk down the aisles with a nothing more than a receiver to do inventory
No, my problem is the same issue I have with SPYWARE. Okay, now we have this technology embedded in a coat I buy for my daughter. Now, Wal*Mart can make deals with other companies such a McDonalds to track every time a 4 year old walks into to the door.
And heaven forbid they link-up such tracking with our credit cards.
Oh I know
--- have you healed your church website?
damn straight! I hate being called a "consumer". I'm a customer of a company, if/when I choose to be. Next week, I might be someone elses customer, sooner if they ever refer to people as consumers.
Anyone here still shop at WalMart? Ever since I read this I've tried to be a little more conciencious about where I spend my money.
WalMart is tagged pretty hard in the book and so are a lot of the major companies.
Is anyone into anti-coporatism (other than M$?) here? I'd love to hear other things that you guys do about avoiding evil corporations.
Like sex? Read and write about it! Indecent Blogging
year on year growth and productivity is not an exponential line, who cares about people lets just chase profit numbers, heh how long do they think it can last ?
What's particularly troubling about this is not that they're looking to use RFID in their warehouses, but the way they're strong-arming their vendors to adopt it. Walmart has a lot of vendors; it stands to reason that if these vendors are forced to adopt RFID, its adoption at other businesses (grocery store chains, Kmarts, etc.) is only a matter of time.
Not that I shop at Walmart to begin with--I try to make a habit out of not shopping at places that sell crappy products, fire people for trying to organize unions, and force people to work unpaid overtime.
Gifts for Geeks - Stuff that really matters!
I'm sorry, but somebody had to say it...
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
lool! agoaijrg ooariosrhmioobi moosrigmsgr
Exxon uses them for speed pass so you can pay for gas.
McDonalds is experimenting with RFID's for paying at the drive through. For years now turnpikes and toll roads have had ezpass that allows you to pay tolls by barely slowing down. From what I have seen on the horizon RFID's are only going to grow and become more prevelent.
Golgofrinchian *8^)
I'm pining for the fjords...
China Opens Front
In Standards Debate
Beijing Targets Technology
To Track Shipped Goods
Using Radio Frequencies
By CHARLES HUTZLER
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
BEIJING -- China is opening a front in its campaign to set global technology standards by trying to influence an emerging inventory-tracking technology -- a move that could unsettle major foreign investors.
The government last week announced the formation of an interagency group to draft standards for the tracking technology, known as radio frequency identification, or RFID. The technology, which allows retailers and suppliers to track shipping containers and pallets as they make their way around the world, eventually could be applied to billions of dollars in goods traded globally.
A team of Chinese bureaucrats and experts will visit the U.S. and Japan next month to meet companies and government agencies promoting competing and potentially incompatible RFID standards, said Edward Zeng, chairman of Sparkice Inc., an electronic-commerce and Internet-cafe chain, and a member of the Chinese task force.
Beijing has been spurred into action by calls from international retailers Wal-Mart Stores Inc. of Bentonville, Ark., and Metro Group AG of Germany to begin applying RFID to goods exported from China, possibly requiring huge outlays by Chinese manufacturers.
Nearly 70% of Wal-Mart's world-wide procurement consists of Chinese-made products, and the retailer wants suppliers to begin using RFID to track shipping containers and pallets beginning in 2005. Metro said last week that its biggest 100 suppliers should start rolling out the technology in November.
The retailers and other proponents of RFID say the technology will spawn a revolution in commerce, helping companies better manage their supply chains, from manufacturers to consumers. RFID involves an array of technologies, including tiny computer chips that are affixed to each product or shipping container and that transmit radio signals, equipment that reads the signals, and servers that store the information for retrieval on Web-based networks. Initially, the technology is expected to be used only to track shipments and inventories, but it eventually could help companies chart purchases by individual consumers, allowing them to amass loads of information on personal preferences.
"Eventually, this will be the DNA of global commerce," Mr. Zeng said. He noted that China's $438 billion in exports last year and its growing role as a world-wide manufacturing hub give the country a say in determining RFID standards.
China's interest in RFID is part of a broader push to determine technology standards and reverse the flow of royalties paid by Chinese companies to license foreign technology. In recent months, the government has announced domestic encryption standards for local wireless computer networks, and it is promoting or developing homegrown technical standards for next-generation DVD players, third-generation mobile-phone networks and household networks that will run entertainment systems and appliances. The campaign has drawn criticism from foreign industry executives who say China's standards won't produce viable, leading-edge technologies and are a form of protectionism.
A bevy of standards needs to be worked out for RFID, from uniform frequencies and compatible signal-reading equipment to formats for data. The U.S. and Japan are allocating different ultrahigh frequency radio bands for RFID, potentially creating a headache for manufacturers that supply both countries.
Some manufacturers also question whether the technology backed by Wal-Mart and other U.S. businesses is inferior to other standards, said Loh Kin Wah, who heads Asian-Pacific operations for chip maker Infineon Technologies AG.
Mr. Zeng, of Sparkice, said China is hoping to avoid friction with foreign companies over RFID. His appointment as the working group's sole private entrepreneur is a sign of the government's intentions, he s
RFID has also been reviewed as tagging luggage on airports. It might be in use somewhere today, but the one I know about, they discarded it because of the cost, not just to the airport in question but because all connecting airports had to have this system as well in order to get the most from it.
However, test done parallel to(/on top) the existing system locally showed that it could speed up the processing because the tag was read everytime the barcode scanners failed to locate the paper strip, and the need for manuel handeling would have been deduced to items that had lost their tag underway.
As usual, Wally World is asking others to innovate on their behalf, to their benefit, and asking the supplier to foot the bill. .
You assume that the supplier enjoys no benefits from this. But the supplier receives the same benefits as does Wal-Mart -- smoother supply chain operations with faster throughput, lower costs, and higher service quality. All that manual crosschecking of pallets and paperwork is an expensive waste of time for eveyone. If Wal-Mart saves money by automatically scanning everything that enters their premises, the supplier saves money by automatically scanning everything that leaves their premises. Its all about keeping track of stuff without spending a bunch of money.
Wal-Mart would never do this if they did not think it provided long-term cost-savings (and that includes any price increases that suppliers will be forced to pass on). Wal-Mart's mandate only forces suppliers to get off their butts and innovate. The only losers are competing retailers who refuse to adopt RFID and have to pass on the costs of their inefficiencies to consumers.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
many companies would be just happy to be supplying Wal-Mart and its associated companies. It is an accepted cost of business that you may have to adapt to them.
Put it this way, would you rather sell to them or have your competitor doing it?
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
You probably complain when you get a speeding ticket after making a 100 mile journey in 63 minutes. Bitch and moan all you want to the ticket counter, 100/1.01 == more than the speed limit miles per hour.
Jerkass.
Yes, we want to know whether the chips would invade customers' privacy. Yet nowhere in the article is this issue truly addressed. Privacy is again mentioned further down in the article:
RFID has a dazzling allure in the retail industry, where enthusiasts envision every product having a digital tag instead of a bar code. A can of soda, for instance, could be tracked from manufacture to warehouse to store to a customer's RFID-equipped refrigerator.
That scenario unnerves privacy advocates, who worry about a corporation's being able to track a customer's every move.
Wal-Mart's plan, thus far, is nowhere close to that vision, Dillman said in an interview at the company's northwest Arkansas headquarters.
Does the "thus far" bother you as much as it bothers me? They say that the chips will be attached to boxes/packages/crates, not individual products. Great for people who buy individual products rather than by the box or crate (yeah, some people do buy crates of pop or deodorant or whatever). And even if the chips are only on crates now, how long will it be until chips on the individual products is the rule, not the exception? Because those without chips on individual products would be deemed as "in the technological dark ages?" "Left behind?"
People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
Given all of the other information about WalMart's record as an employer, I predict RFID tags will be applied to their employees' badges before they are deployed on a larger scale to individual retail items.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
You sound more than just a bit paranoid, and more than a little looney too. This isn't (as you people love to parrot) "Orwellian". This is the evolution of technology. Get used to it.
"and having seen the later used to track and sometimes even ticket drivers via toll systems"
Ahh yes, those EVIL toll booths that do nothing more than take pictures of lisence plates of people without a transmitter driving through the EZPass lane (going through without paying). Do they make tinfoil hats for cars?
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
If it bothers you, look for a way to jam the RFID signal. Causing the vendor technical problems is a sure way to increase their costs as a deterrent.
After the purchace find & remove the tag.
Will they be using this to track crimes? Maybe I'll get blamed for my stolen jacket worn by a serial killer? (sounds far fetched?)
seeder@i-dive.net
I am a very wary customer when it comes to walmart . They have a pretty long history of forcing their suppliers to their knees to get what they want, and from what I understand, RFID tags are no exception.
Fox IV Technologies, a company run by the father of one of my co-workers, is in the business of manufacturing machines that print RFID tags. I was talking about this with said co-worker a few days ago, and he mentioned a couple interesting things:
*for one, RFID tags, individually, cost a pretty penny - upwards of some 30-40 cents per tag for a moderately sized tag (or, more appropriately put, a tag the size that walmart is looking at)
*Walmart is forcing their suppliers to comply with this -- WITHOUT COMPENSATION. The suppliers get no kickback or relief for using these tags - the cost is on the supplier. Even worse, they can't raise their prices, as that would go against Walmart's founding principle.
Taken together, this means that on individual products (such as razors, the most commonly stolen item from walmart, and a prime candidate for individual-product RFID tagging), the cost of these 30-40 cent tags STILL has to be footed by the supplier. This means that a $4 razor refill - on which the supplier was hardly making any money to begin with - now costs the supplier 10% more. Thus, their profit disappears, and it is no longer profitable to sell razors.
Remember, Walmart's only goal is for Walmart to make money. Not their suppliers, not their competitors, and in the end of it all, not the consumers. Be careful where you shop.
If I had a nickel for every time I had a nickel, I'd be richcursive!
Ever since I read this [amazon.com] I've tried to be a little more conciencious about where I spend my money. You might want to be a little more conciencious about which ideological books you open wide and swallow happily. At least try to get both sides.
"How hard would it be to build your own RFID detector? If it is too hard for Joe and Jane Average, how much might one cost at Target/Walgreens/geektoys.com ... or even Walmart?"
;o)
Ahhh... but how do you detect the RFID tag thats in the RFID tag detector?
And that's all the poor karma posting my IP will allow. Thank you, and goodnight.
Trust me (as a former walmart vendor) - we happily bowed down to Walmart - what we lost in sales per item we made HUGE gains in product awareness and ENORMOUS strides in volume - when we got the Walmart bid - our volume septupled. Our workers tripled - we got free advertisement on the news that we we adding 250 factory jobs - something in my area of the country that makes you look prosperous and like a great company.
Parent post's author is known troll.
> Put it this way, would you rather sell to them or have your competitor doing it?
Obveously I'd rather be selling to them.
Even if they ask me to chop off my left foot and me to eat it infront of my kids in exchange.
Becouse if you don't do business with Microsoft.. err Walmart your out of business.
I don't actually exist.
I can buy a typical logic chip for 49 cents in quantities of one, and the RFID tags don't need the same elaborate packaging or physical pinouts. There's the antenna, but that's still easier than wire bonds.
A picture of an RFID card.
--- Ban humanity.
here's one simple kit with a reader and some rfid tags to experiment with. One of those 'contact us for price' deals. I'm suprised nutsvolts.com or circuitcellar.com hasn't had hobbyist/experimenters articles about RFID yet.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Why would you want to destroy these at the store? If you feel so strongly, remove the tag after you leave the store.
-- Solaris Central - http://w
You know, you're a real asshat. I wonder what the real ESR thinks of you masquerading as him. Hrm?
MOD PARENT DOWN!! Just based on impersonation - take a close look at this clowns name.
Oh yeah. I decided not to post anonymously.
Burn, karma, burn.
FYI, found this at the bottom of a 'Post Comment' page: "Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal."
It would be quite amusing to build a device to record every ID and play them back as you leave the store, then sit back and watch as the automated restocking system delivers a whole stores worth of goods.
I wonder how long they would keep the system after that had happened a few times...
If you've ever worked in any kind of warehouse you'd understand the significance of using RFID technology to assist in everyday tracking of goods.
Wal-Mart being evil is a whole different story. There are 2 sides to every situation. Maybe if people gave a shit about anyone besides themselves we wouldn't have Republicans in the House, Senate, Judiciary and Executive Branch. That's all they sell. Fuck your neighbor, here's a tax cut.
When society differes from Wal-Mart I'll call them evil. Until then, it's status quo.
Maybe the supplier benefits. If they're lucky.
If RFID were such a golden opportunity for ROI, they'd already be doing it.
As far as losers, I bet a lot of retailers are looking at this situation and thinking "hey! That's great. All my suppliers will be on RFID by the time the technology is mature and the costs have settled down."
meh.
2006? That's such a long way off, like 4 or 5 years right? Wait, what year is it again?
Social Contract? I don't remember signing any Social Contract!
Imagine the kinds of integration you could do for a shopper using an RFID. Although you can do the same thing today with barcodes, it's not nearly as elegant.
A shopper can stand in front of an item at the Walmart store, and the Walmart website can offer that product along with possible alternatives. It's also great for selecting bigger items (which tend not to always be stocked) and buying them online while in the store.
People are more interested in shopping when they are in the store - they aren't as interested when they are sitting in their chair at home. Vendors can use this technology to induce the impulse buy, but on much larger ticket items. In fact, items with better sales margins can bubble-up and encourage the shoppers to spend even more.
Eric Sarjeant
eric[@]sarjeant.com
Mods: See this link.
RFID technology is still in its infancy and as other posters have pointed out, it will not be until individual items are tagged that the danger to privacy will arise. That is still a few years away and there may even come to be benefits for consumers besides not having to line up to have your cart scanned. In the long run the danger of having market researchers wardriving meighbourhoods to take inventories of what products people use is a possibility, but so too is compiling your shopping list in much the same way or having your washing machine warn you that there is a red sock about to go into a load of whites. No doubt the dangers will arise before the benefits (aside from price reductions due to supply chain efficiencies) however I can think of no group better qualified than /. readers to come up with ways to mitigate the bad and ideas to exploit the potential benefits.
I've finally got around to changing my sig
Vendors' manufacturing costs will go up, but Wal*Mart will insist that the prices stay the same or even drop, meaning that manufacturers will do what they always do when they deal with Wal*Mart... they'll stick it to the workers.
I refuse to even set foot in a Wal*Mart. That company is beyond the pale when it comes to irresponsible and callous behavior.
IANAHR (holy roller), but if the 'anti-christ' were to emerge in this century, I bet he'd be a Walton.
Now, watch, Wal*Mart will sue me.
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
What I would want is a device to destroy the tag. A device that emits, say, 50W of microwave radiation would do it. Just sweep some microwaves across the product and any tags would be disabled.
"Drug related crime" is a misnomer, "prohibition related crime" is the more accurate and correct phrase.
China will make a mistake if it doesn't adopt international standards" for RFID, Mr. Zeng said. "But the world will make a mistake if it doesn't choose China as a partner."
**
Oh yeah... We'll all have to bow to the chineese in 10 years, cause they'll own all our manufacturing capacity. Not that it'll matter, because no one will be able to afford anything cause "american" companies outsourced every job to India.
Hello Third World Status, America. Thanks Bush.
People love to whine about rfid privacy, consider:
l o-TheBlockerTag.pdf
http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~rivest/JuelsRivestSzyd
RFID interrogators use a binary tree walking protocol to enumerate tags in the field. Get a tag that responds to every query, and you have effectively jammed RFID interrogation around your person.
This is just the first of many ideas; very simple but very effective. Just as many people are working on privacy solutions as are working on the rest of the devices.
It's a very lucrative market after all (privacy sector) because as as we all know:
1) FUD
2) ???
3) profit!!!
Contrary to popular hysteria, RFID is not your enemy.
If this works for inventory goods it might work for the department of homeland security too. Require all people traveling to and from the US to have a tag surgically implanted and track all there moves without problems. What the heck, require it for all people... instant safety...
Wal-Mart sends those profits to arkansas.
The hot dog man uses that money to buy food at the local grocer or to buy something else.
The bottom line is Wal-Mart takes money away from your area while local businesses keep the money in the community...
1888 Franklin St.
Please see my posting out in the main area.
You had me fooled until I looked a bit more closely...
It should be relitively simple to create an RFID power source that burns out the RFID tags.
Sizzle.. POP..
Then to compleate removal just find the black spot. This is extra helpful if the RFID tag is burried deep into the product (say mixed in the stuffing of a teady bear).
I'd recomend designing it open hardware with a PLUG IN power source. No need to make em portable... and get used in the stores accadentally on purpous.
I don't actually exist.
Works in the wal-mart, or drives delivery trucks, or works in construction or as a contractor when the building was built.
This is somewhat off-topic, but I saw a lot of people talking in this direction so I thought I'd post a top level comment.
Wal*Mart has a policy; every year they will approach their vendors, and they will demand a 5% reduction in wholesale cost. AFAIK this is not negotiable.
For the first few years, it's doable. However, eventually the supplier will run out of fat to trim, and will start to cut into the meat.
This means (pick at least one):
Lower quality merchandise
Lower pay/benefits to workers
Offshore manufacturing
Levi Strauss used to make the best jeans on the planet. They employed many US workers, and you could buy a pair and wear them for 20 years. They now make NOTHING, and are nothing more than a relabeller of crappy asian knockoffs that wear out in a few dozen wearings. This is due mainly from pressure from their largest buyer, Wal*Mart.
This has happened to MANY companies. The problem is, by the time it gets down to deciding to offshore your manufacturing, you're screwed. You're 5+ years into the relationship with Wal*Mart by then, and they're your biggest customer. You've invested millions into production capacity to feed them. You do what they say or you go out of business. They know this, and they will crush your balls until you lower your price, and they don't give a damn if that means that you now have to close your US plant, turn the town it was in into a slum, and have your clothes made by 10 year old girls in the Phillipines. And if, in the end, you decide to not fire your US workers (or whatever) to drop your price to them, you'll quickly find out how one-sided your "relationship" with them was; they'll drop your ass into the pit of bankruptcy, find another supplier to screw, and not shed a tear.
By all means, if you want the quality of what you're buying to keep going down, and to eventually have everyone in the US employed flipping burgers for each other, keep shopping at Wal*Mart.
See, it's all very good to shout "capatalism" from the rooftops. But capitalism isn't strictly dollars. Consumer choice is part of the equation as well, and consumers make their choices NOT strictly on price, or everyone would be driving Kia's, or strictly on quality, or everyone would be wearing Carhartt's.
Personal morality also enters into purchasing decisions. A moral consumer does not just say "I'll buy whatever's cheapest, fuck everyone else." Retailers know that; if they didn't, you wouldn't see them backpedalling every time they get associated with sweatshops.
Also, capitalism doesn't usually take the form of a buyer waiving a death sentence at a seller and saying "Now, I think you're going to drop your price this year, RIGHT?" That's not capitalism, that's extortion.
Correct me if I am wrong but when I buy a book at a book store they usually have a general RFID tag on them as an anti-shoplifting device... Just as stores like Wal-Mart and Zellers has cheaper anti-shoplifting devices such as those magnetic tags..
Wouldn't it be cheaper to lean away from the magnetic tags and have two purposes for RFID tags.. As a anti-shoplifting device and as well as a item identification media?
I mean yes its easy to find and rip off these tags off of books and items and still walk out but the "average joe" doesn't even know about them.
Really, I can not really understand this big uproar here, on /.
This is a new technology, you can do great and not so great things with it - just like with every other technology. We have laws (and moral and ethics) to deal with the not-so-great aspects.
This approach has more or less worked in the past centuries - and I expect it to work further.
So, if you do not want WalMart or anyone else to infringe on your privacy then get some goddamn laws to protect your privacy - beacuse your REAL concern is protecting your privacy, not the usage of the next-gen barcode.
Real life is overrated.
Wal-mart is one of our bigger customers, and they originally has us slated to be an early adopter of RFID in the case.
We were supposed to be working on this in 2004, however they pushed out implementation out to beyond 2006. As far as I know they didn't say why either.
All I know is that we're not slated to be doing anything with RFID anytime in the near future, and just six months ago we were planning on gearing up to implement across our entire supply chain.
Since Verisign recently was awarded the contract for the EPC/RFID registry, there has been activity on their yahoo message board about RFID. Some of it is pretty interesting, although I think the general discourse here is more intelligent (imagine!).
Here is a link to get you started if you are interested in talking about RFID with people that invest in Verisign: link here
The reason that it can be true that 1+1 > 2 is that very peculiar nonzero value of the + operator
That's $0.30 - $0.40 per CASE, not per item.
It's for warehouse inventory tracking, not shelf stocking.
You'd think people would at least read the article summary.
"Wal*Mart is continuing to push for vendors to add RFID tags to cases of products for easier tracking through their warehouse distribution system. Most vendors have until 2006 to comply, but their top 100 suppliers must have the tags in place by 2005.
Alot of companies already have propietary systems similar to what RFID does in terms of tracking inventory on site or still use bar code and have people manually scan it in.
As for the slow rate of adoption you nail it, it is expensive to change so why do it until needed or others have done it and lowered the cost.
What we need is for Walmart to give away devices similar to the CueCat for barcodes but will read RFID tags.
Where are you in the world that you can afford to make such a statement? Do you believe that privacy protection works where you are?
So, if you do not want WalMart or anyone else to infringe on your privacy then get some goddamn laws to protect your privacy
In certain countries, as long as privacy protection stands in the way of profits (among other things), there will be either little or no interest in creating strong privacy laws, as the politicians are luxury whores purchased by big business. They don't care about "the people" or their right to privacy.
- beacuse your REAL concern is protecting your privacy, not the usage of the next-gen barcode.
So you believe that privacy protection and the use of RFID tags are completely separate things that don't cross and affect one another?
People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
If WalMart makes up a significant part of your business, they then have control over your business, and are able to mandate that you do things that will increase your costs. Like RFID tags, like using their SKUs & product IDs, like lowering your price each year (whether your costs have gone up or not).
If I were running a small business, I would avoid selling to them, as ultimately they will drive me out of business, or force me to lay off my loyal employees for those in lower-cost foreign countries.
Chip H.
Is the /. world really that lacking in business acumen?
First, Wal-Mart is NOT saying all vendors have to use RFIDs all of the time. They are simply saying whatever you sell to us must have RFIDs at a lot level, not item level.
As a customer, I will purchase from the vendor(s) who offers the best combination of product, price and service. As the customer, I get decide what that magic combination is. In Wal-Marts case, they have decided RFIDs are a major part of the equation and will only purchase from vendors who can satisfy this requirement. On the other hand you have determined that social costs are a major factor in determining who you purchase from and therefore have eliminated Wal-Mart as a vendor.
It's called FREE ENTERPRISE
If VISTA is the answer, you didn't understand the question
You have to be pretty close to the tag to read it. The walmart folks have large tags (4" to 6") on their boxes. The larger the tag, the further away it can be read. The distance of reading is a function of tag size and power.
So, unless they get super powerful readers, they won't be able to tell that you have a pair of granny underwear at home. (900mhz readers have their own problems, especially in countries other than the US) If you don't like the tag, cut it up. I really don't see the big deal with this. Can a tinfoil hat person explain to me why this is such a bad thing?
The RFID tags the guy I responded to above are for Wal-Mart's 2005/2006 rollout, which is warehouse tracking, per case as stated in the summary and article.
They want to go to per item RFID tags when the prices come down, and they see adding the tracking to cases for warehouse inventory control NOW as a way to bring the prices of the technology down.
So the $0.30-$0.40 quoted by the guy I replied to, will be per CASE at present time, because they're only rolling out Warehous eInventory Tracking, PER CASE/PALLET! They are not sticking $0.40 cent RFID tags on $1.29 razor blades, they're sticking a $0.40 tag on a CASE of razorblades.
We are an RFID vendor for many of WalMart's suppliers, and nothing has slowed down. We are on a severe push to get our customers up and running. I am normally against wal-mart policies as they do tend to bully people but in this case. it will save their vendors alot of money and not just on WalMart products but on their other customers as well. And this is where the vendors will profit. The cost savings if the RFIDs are actually used in the vendors wharehouse will be enormous, however if they just slap one on the case as its leaving the wharehouse to comply with walmart they are dumbasses. However we are making money of this, so never bite the hand that feeds you...GO RFIDS
China seems to think that they're the only country that investors will move their factories to. There are a lot of poor countries that would love to take any opportunities China refuses. One of them being China's neighbor, India, which is projected to have a larger population than China.
China needs to be careful in trying to determine whether it wagging the tail or is the tail itself.
-- You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
If RFID were such a golden opportunity for ROI, they'd already be doing it.
Who modded this up? That's like someone in 1980 saying that if Computers were so great, everyone would have them.
It takes time for technology to be broadly addopted, particularly if the gov't doesn't mandate it.
-- You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
(1) It lets the supplier easily track cases and pallets all the way down the distribution chain down to point of final delivery. Right now what happens is that a semi-trailer full of stuff backs up to the loading dock, and someone counts/looks at/checks what they can see and signs for it. All the way down the line. That takes time, and is error prone, especially when things get busy. So if the truck driver has stolen a couple of cases of something, or the distribution center has "lost" a pallet, usually someone only spots this after the truck is long gone. Which then leads to the question, "Did someone steal it from here, or were we short 3 cases on the last order?" In a previous life, I worked on a point-of-sale system for a catalog store in Canada. and "shrinkage" (as it was known) was running about 5-15%.
With an evil RFID tag on each case and pallet, a reader or two on each loading dock and a bunch of software behind it, you can at least track how many cases and pallets are being moved on and off each truck as the pallets are being loaded/unloaded. So the supplier/distributor/customer (that's the store itself, not you or I buying a pack of razor blades) knows more reliably what they received. "Hey, there's only 157 cases on these pallets -- we're three short"
(b) By knowing that a given set of pallets and cases have been received at the customer site, then the correct billing information can be generated. Large companies have an awful lot of money tied up in "disputed stock".
Example: "The SlashDot Karma Korporation" claims to have shipped 200 cases of clues to "Microsoft", but "Microsoft" has no record of receving them. Sometimes it can take several billing cycles (say one month for each cycle) to sort this out; sometimes the vendors will just give up. Large corporations have millions and millions of dollars tied up in disputes like this. Note that I'm assuming that the customer is acting in good faith and has lost the paperwork or something.
Coupling RFID tags on pallets and cases with some sort of electronic inventory control/purchase order control system at the vendor level speeds up the process by which money changes hands for goods. We have an electronic transaction which says, "I received 157 cases of clues on these pallets on this date. This was part of purchase order #65535".
There's a couple of sets of people that this is bad for -- the people who steal from warehouses and trucks, and the odd disreputable vendor/distributor/customer who will have a harder time claiming "we sent it/we never got it/pallet, wot pallet?".
In general, it is good for the vendor, the distributor and the corporate customer -- they can all track what was shipped where and when. This is new technology, and it will be a while before it all works reliably -- I think the public announcements that "our suppliers must be using this by the end of 2005" are in the nature of mission statements, and the reality will be later than that. I was working with software driving bar-code readers in 1975 in a similar set of applications, so this is nothing new!
But that's the promise of this technology, and that's why certain large companies (Wal*mart and DoD for example) are driving this supply side initiative. There's a lot of money (no, a LOT of money) at stake here, with lots of potential savings for both the vendor and the corporate consumer. Whether those savings get passed on to teh consumer I'll leave as an exercise to the student.
So for me this looks like a good idea. I can see the privacy issues in having bar-codes on consumer packaging/embededd inside your under-shorts, but this is not that.
And to paraphrase Robin Williams, My opinion of CASPIAN is that Kathrine Albrecht needs to get laid more than any white woman in history,
Cthulhu Barata Nikto
Those of us concerned with privacy and uncondoned passive RFID scanning after purchase can simply discard the tages we can find in the parking lot, perhaps picking up a few random ones discarded by others. Middle School children can collect them in their bookbags, gleefully setting off passive post-retail-sale RFID scanners on their way to school and into the classrooms. No fun like knowing you're creating bogus consumer stream data! At least until they outlaw that behaviour.
What will truly be frustrating is that as the complexity of purchasing an item from a retailer using these high-strung technologies increases, so will the inconvenience and amount of time wasted by having to wait for a system to reboot while you are in the checkout line. The self-scanning lanes at my grocery store and local Home Depot are particularly schizoid now. Their Plyskool interfaces and "Touch Mickey's Hand to Continue" processes will only be dumbed down further into the future to accomodate us aging Baby Boomers. Adding RFID will mean I might not get out of that checkout line in under 10 minutes even if I have exact change.
What is to be had in the way of benefits from the increased granularity of Point-of-Sale technologies benefits only the producer and retailer, not us consumers.
Of course, I could be wrong.
A technology that is going to save wal*mart MILLIONS of dollars a year and their pushing for its adoption?! What could they possibly be thinking!?
--
"f RFID were such a golden opportunity for ROI, they'd already be doing it."
Not necessarily. Companies have been doing business one way for so long that they can't imagine a different way of doing business.
I see Wal-Mart as simply culling the herd.
Better they do it, then some Indian chain.
contrary to populer belief.. a walmart in your area actually helps the local economy. even with the drop in wages and taxes from said wages. the purchasing power of the local consumers goes up. deflation happens locally and cost of living goes down. frankly i'm not worried about how 'much' money i have but what i can 'do' with my money. try to explain that to antiwalmart zelots. i have yet to see a good explination why 'local' grocery stores are better then 'national'. other then it feels 'homely' and less 'corprate' which to me seems the most illogical reason for shopping at any place.
I thought free trade was Good for America. Isn't that what everyone says
Hello? I need some comforting here!
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
all that went on only during the last four years? Wow. I must have been imagining the future since 1992...
Well, if you're a highschool/college student...its just fine. But, if you're a grown adult, and Wal-Mart is your primary source of income....you're made some seriously bad vocational and life choices. Go get some education, and get a real job...its tougher, but, never too late...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
"you've made some seriously bad vocational and life choices."
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Relevations 13:
16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead,
17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
18 This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.htm l
If you are not familiar with the way of Wal-Mart, you really need to read the above article. It goes into detail how Wal-Mart continually pressures its suppliers to drop their prices. Eventually, some of these suppliers decide to off-shore or have to go out of business.
And you know what this leads to? Lost jobs. So, basically US consumers are shopping themselves out of their own jobs. The sad thing is, the average consumer either cannot understand this or simply does not care about it. We live in sad times, where most people have no social conscience (although I suspect this has been a problem throughout the ages).
The really interesting thing to me is that Wal-Mart seems to be a lot more "evil" (acting like a monopoly) than anything I've read from Microsoft. The problem is that Wal-Mart isn't bullying consumers, they are bullying suppliers. But it's only a matter of time before these negative ripples reach consumers...
If all you have are silver bullets, everything looks like a werewolf.
There's nothing wrong Wal*Mart cares about profit only. People seems to think that they expliot their employees, force their suppliers to lower their supplied prices to bare minimal, or treat customers as criminals.
If you think they underpay you, go work somewhere else. If you think they take away your labour rights, go work somewhere else. If you don't have any skill and couldn't find a job somewhere else, acquire some skills. If you have skills and simply don't like Wal*Mart, how about you start your own store and compete with them? They are not charity. No business really give a damn to you, unless it's favorable to them too. Wal*Mart is no different from any business.
If you are the suppliers and think that Wal*Mart expliot you and force you to accept unreasonable low prices, don't do the business. If you accept the business, you believe you have a long term benefits from it. Otherwise, either you are not as competitive as your competitors who can supply Wal*Mart with lower prices, or you are the monopoly of your goods but you don't have the knowledge to sell your goods to other retail stores/your own stores. Nobody put a gun on your head to do business to Wal*Mart.
If you are small stores and couldn't compete with Wal*Mart's ridiculous low prices, there are two things you can do: 1. understand why your suppliers don't supply you with the same prices, and go bargain 2. your time is up, plan to move onto something else/somewhere else. It's a tough and sad truth, but most of us who work have the same chance got displaced.
The most stupid thing people can say is Wal*Mart is an evil monopoly if they can't compete with Wal*Mart because Wal*Mart can get better deals. At least, they are not lobbying the government to prevent other stores coming into the market. It's just like SCO saying Linux is evil when SCO couldn't compete with anything else.
If you feel offended when the clerk put a tag on your bag when you enter Wal*Mart, simply don't go there.
A sig is redundant.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
In 1980 it was, to an extent, an appropriate statement. There is still a ways to go before this technology becomes commoditized and mature. The early adopters might get lucky and reap huge benefits, but the more likely scenario is that they'll have to retool their RFID infrastructure in a couple of years. It depends on whether they integrate RFID into their own supply chain, or simply slap the tags on before they ship to Wal Mart. Given the risks of the brittleness of this technology, it might make sense to make a smaller investment in RFID on outbound shipments only.
IAAGIR - I am a geek in retail.
meh.
Let me guess, you live in a densely populated area or close to a major urban center? There aren't lots of office buildings and jobs where a college degree matter when you go out to rural areas. Wal-Mart is the straw that breaks the camel's back. If all the local businesses shut down, there's no choice but to work at Wal-Mart.
I'm on top of my game like I'm standin' on Xbox.
But the one hard fact that you provide, Levis, seems to have a other story that you forgot to mention.
During the 80's Levi's saw the trend that WalMart was going to tear down the small town stores that were selling things for way too high a profit margin. At the same time the malls were booming in America like never before. The "mall culture" if you will became a staple for many people including the youth. In steps the Gap.
Now joke what you want about the Gap but I'm sure that they are turning an excellent profit. Their online store seems pretty nice and while it runs IIS, I bet it does pretty good as well.
Anyway, I have heard the pro's and con's of the WalMartization of America and it seems to me that that that old saying holds true, "If you dance with the devil..." And then maybe another one too, "Don't put all your eggs in one basket."
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
But, seriously, nothing is forcing a person to stay where they are. If the area sucks...move to a better one.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I can understand why the average Joe dildohead might think a particular thing is evil, like say cookies on internet sites.
/. crowd is supposed to be more technicaly astute then that.
But the
RFID doesn't rate any better or worse then about a zillion other things in my book. You are worried about people tracking what you buy?
Then stop paying for things with Checks, Debit/ATM cards, Credit Cards... use cash only for EVERYTHING.
I work for a company that sells things over the internet and through catalogs. You RFID wackos would loose your minds if you understood the dollar value on your personal information.
Hell, we have been doing this since.... hell when I started working for the company I had to load magnetic tape drives with reel to reel tapes.
We don't need no stinking RFID to track you.
Nah RFID isn't any more evil then anything else. If Wal-Mart likes it then I say more power to them.
I must have read 50 comments and not one of them was about RFID tags, which is what the post was about. Moderators should be modding these posts as Off Subject.
My two cents...
I have looked at RFID tag systems and right now they are too expensive for item level tagging. This is what Wal*Mart originally wanted to do. It's alot more efficient than bar code, but way more expensive (right now).
Then they switched to mandating pallet (or box) level tagging which is still helpful, but not very expensive.
I think if more companies use RFID for pallet level tagging the prices will come down and they can then move to item level tagging. I would guess 3-5 years befor item level tagging is affordable.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Job isn't the only concern. For example you might need to take care of your grandparents, or your spouse or boy/girlfriend has a job (s)he doesn't want to leave, or you don't want your kids to grow up in a poor area of a city with high crime etc.
The worst case is, you move to get a new job but then you don't get it or get fired very soon. That's how slums grow around big cities, from people who MOVED in hopes of a better life. The thing is, not everybody makes it, in some cases the vast majority doesn't make it but ends up worse.
Unless you're a very highly skilled professional who can get a job quite easily by just moving to a right area, then moving at all can be a very risky proposition...
But there are other costs with RFID, particularly the reader, compared with barcode.
Right, a few companies are now making RFID tags (inlets) using silver-epoxy for the circuit. Basically a silk-screen process over Dupont Melinex substrate, then thump down a special material that when compressed is conductive and when not, insulates. And thump the chip, bake and it's done.
Campaign finance reform is national security.
Is there a way we can destroy the tags when we get home?
If you already pay via CC/ATM they know waht you purchase. But at least they cant track you via each object after the fact.
Boycotting Walmart wont work. As they are the largest retailer and have enough customers that dont care to make up for the difference.
Plus others will follow anyway.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Here's the first-time this idea's been proposed; our gift to /. :
It's easy to burn out RFID tags... with a stun-gun. ZZZYYYAAAPPP!!!
Campaign finance reform is national security.
Yeah, but new chips have anti-collision built-in.
Campaign finance reform is national security.
Those book tags are just a capacitor and antenna, and are discharged at checkout.
And every RFID tag has a unique serial number, and so will certainly be used not just for inventory, but 'anti-shrinkage'.
Campaign finance reform is national security.
Yeah, RFID 'long-range' is considered four meters. But with a dish, you could be read at much greater distances, OK?
Further, Hitachi is now making a microscopic RFID tag. How would you like it, if I pointed my antenna at your wallet and read exactly how much money you have at the moment?
Campaign finance reform is national security.
Uh, you didn't answer his question. Just what do you expect Walmart employees to do for healthcare if they or their dependants become ill? Because I bet you're not happy to have them covered by the government, are you?
Just saying "go to your local community college" doesn't solve the problem. Suppose every single Walmart employee did that. What now? You've got a whole lot of people who've just got their degrees but no degree-level jobs for them to fill. Or were they all going to land the job of their dreams as soon as they graduated?
All you've done there is create thousands of graduates who can't find jobs to match their new-found skills and who are in even bigger debt. (You did remember those Federal student loans have to be repayed, right?) And in the meantime, Walmart's got a lot of vacancies open stacking shelves...
Working in a supermarket may not be a glamourous or mentally demanding job to you but it's how a lot of people have to make a living.
Perhaps if you got your head from out of your butt and stopped dispensing your dreamworld economics lessons you'd realise that the reason why people work at Walmart for next to nothing is because they don't have a choice.
Oh, and by the way, 43.6 million Americans didn't have health insurance in 2002. God knows how bad the situation is today. But I'm sure you're right and they've all only got themselves to blame, every single last one of them.
After all, getting a good education, getting a well-paid job, keeping it and not losing it because the company found someone who'd do your job for half the salary or because the CEO bled it dry to fund his opulent lifestyle is easy and anybody who can't manage that is a fool.
Yeah, right. Grow a brain, troll.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
I'm not saying it is easy, but, it is possible....and you have to decide how important making a good living is to you. You can increase your skill level on your spare time. It isn't easy, but, if you want it bad enough, you will put in the effort, and find the time. Lots of people move their families to new locations for a job. It isn't easy nor fun...but, more and more it is necessary. The days of a permanet, good paying job for life are over...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I can always get a metal wallet.. ;-)
If I had lots of cash in my wallet, all with microscopic RFID tags.. you would have to have a gigantic dish pointed right at me.
I think I would see you.
So, unless you are on a mountain, good luck. Even on a mountain, you would pick up so many other people, and power consumption would be incredible.
Are you suggesting that a microscopic antenna has the capability to transmit messages into space? The power consumption of the satellite would be enormous!
how long before RFIDs disrupters? It's ok to me if a company wants to add RFID for internal purposes. It's not ok if they want to track me down. So I want to make the RFID non working.
Any clue?
-- There are two kind of sysadmins: Paranoids and Losers. (adapted from D. Bach)
epc global (http://www.epcglobalinc.com/) is still hammering out the exact specs/protocal that wallyworld will end up using. Other companies (Zebra, Intermec, Alien) are rushing foward with tags, readers etc.. etc.. but they arn't complient with wallyworld because the standard has not been finalized.
This reminds me about the confusion issues with X2 and the other pre v.90 protocals.
It is also interesting to note, that the parhmie companies will be in compliance much sooner that everyone else.
If Wal-Mart saves money by automatically scanning everything that enters their premises, the supplier saves money by automatically scanning everything that leaves their premises
You forgot that the supplier has the added expense of creating/buying RFID tags, the added expense of attaching them to the cases, and the added expense of linking one particular RFID tag to one particular case.
WalMArt just throws the empty cases (with attached RFID tags) away after unloading the product.
That being said, the whole "We don't want WallMart here because they'll kill off our local stores" is bullshit. If people really would rather shop at small locally owned shops, they would, and WallMart would close up shop and move on. Instead, the very same people protesting the new WallMart are right there in line for the cheap crap they sell.
Can a small local store compete directly with WallMart? Of course not. Simple economics will tell you that. On the other hand, WallMart, because of they way they are run, cannot compete directly with small shops, either -- they sell different stuff in a much different environment. The problem really is, shoppers are willing to belly up to the WallMart trough -- simply put, they prefer cheap crap as long as the price is lower.
So, if you don't like what WallMart has to offer, shop elsewhere and encourage others to do so as well. Stop bitching about how WallMart "push[es] local businesses out of business" -- I've never seen WallMart logo wearing storm-troopers crashing through the windows of local shops and gunning down the shopkeepers, nor have I seen them herding shoppers into their stores at gunpoint.
In my county (Westchester County, metro NY area) ALL stores must item price everything. Even supermarkets must tag every single item. Both Wal*Mart and Home Depot have paid fines rather than bring their stores into compliance...it's cheaper to pay a $50,000 fine once per year than it is to hire people to maintain item pricing. Michigan has also fined HD and W*M due to a similar law. Massachusetts also has an item pricing law, but it is rarely enforced.
"We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
Expose yourself to large amounts of radiation, that should do the trick.
hate titty pee colon slash slash
The biggest reason Wal-Mart wants RFID is COST SAVINGS! With the implementation of the new RFID tags, the distribution centers will get MUCH better read rates on their product scanners. Currently, with bar code technology they get around 3% no-reads at their sorters... this translates to lost money. With RFID scanners, it no longer matters what position the box is in, whether there are two boxes going through the scanner at the same time or if the bar code is dirty. RFID scanners get close to 100% reads. Check out Siemens Dematic for information on the technology they will be using.
Free trade is only sometimes "Good for America". America putting up protectionism for soft wood or steel = free trade is bad. America not being allowed to sell GMO food to countries who don't allow it = free trade is good.
that were got ourselves into this position during WWII. The freeze on wages meant that employers had to get creative to attract the best & brightest. Therefore, they started offering benifits like healthcare. This has led to the current system, which is unpleasant for everyone. However, no one wants to back down, so it will likely take legislative action to get employers out of the healthcare business.
I'll give you a dollar if you just keep paying me 25 cents every day. Just email me your address...
1888 Franklin St.
Wal*Mart uses predatory pricing tactics and even though they sell for less their employees are paid beans. So the 500-750 jobs a store brings in replace the better paying jobs that disapeared when the competitors went out of business.
What a high price to pay for pork butts
1888 Franklin St.
Like most good American consumers, I have too much stuff already. In fact, I have so much stuff I can't find it when I need it: I will go to the hardware store or Homey Depo if I need a tool or a part for a project, instead of spending hours trying to find that bag of sheet metal screws or carbide saber-saw blade I bought 6 months ago. IF all these things were embedded with RFID tags, I could have a system- base on a "CDDB" type database and a hand scanner, or closet/drawer sensor network, so I could actually find and USE the stuff I already have. Now add an inventory database, so I can just check my computer to see what I've got. Now put this online via P2P- call it "KaZebay" so everyone else can look at my stash, and if they need something I've got that I don't really need, they can make an offer... this could ultimately cause the end of the "big box" retail phenomenon. Of course it would soon be outlawed...
> Get a tag that responds to every query, and you have effectively jammed RFID interrogation around your person.
And that sets off alarm systems at every RFID point. Because (everyone join in with me in the New George Order Chant)... 'Only a terrorist would want to jam RFID tags!'
Sorry, but those local retail businesses don't exist to feed off of one another. I grew up outside a small rural town and the retailers provided a small fraction of the available jobs in the area. Most people would drive an hour or more to get to a bigger city with stores with lower prices because that was always cheaper than buying at the local stores even after figuring in travel costs, meals, etc.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
Ok, let's take just a minute to hold off on our knee-jerk walmart bashing and think about and interesting RFID idea:
When I go to a store, what is the #1 thing I hate? Waiting in line. There is nothing worse than seeing only a few registers open with huge lines. My time is valuable. I would like to just be able to WALK OUT OF THE STORE WITH MY STUFF. Let the RFID detectors track all the merchandise, then all I have to do is show someone my credit card and ID and sign for it all.
This time savings alone would boost the economy and our standard of living -- think about how many wasted hours you've spent in lines, when you could have been spending time with your family or friends, working to get some more dough, etc.
And frankly I don't give a crap about the privacy concerns -- as long as stores still accept cash, it's the consumer's choice as to how much privacy they want. And, of course, no one is forcing anyone to go to stores whose policies they disagree with.
- jonathan.
You've apparently never been in a Wal-Mart after midnight when they are restocking things. A lot of the cases the products come in are reused and even have a cost listed of what the store will be charged if it is not returned and reused. RFID tags may increase this policy.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
If all the local businesses shut down, there's no choice but to work at Wal-Mart.
The consumers must be doing SOMETHING other than working in retail joints to get the money to spend in those same retail joints. If all the local business are retailers (or totally dependent on retailers) that can be forced out by Wal-Mart your local economy has ALREADY failed. At that point Wal-Mart is just making it obvious - and on the plus side making it so that your feeble income can at least buy something.
DO NOT SHOP at Wal-Mart or Sam's Club...Put your money where your mouth is. When people will pay more vs. doing business with a low life retailer the retailer will go out of business. When hypocrits just BIATCH and then go save 3 cents well, FO :)
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Why should unskilled labor make $15+ an hour and get great benefits? Jobs like Walmart are like jobs at McDonalds and other low end retailers. You start there, to get experience, then move on to a better/skilled job. Unions are Un-American, this is why businesses are outsourcing jobs, it's cheaper, and no one needs to make $17.50 to sweep floors, stock shelves and operate a cash register.
You want to boycott walmart, but I see none of you giving up your gas hog SUVs to boycott the oil companies that have been gouging us.
The real reason to not shop there: they pulled :^)
Maxim magazine off the shelves, while leaving
womens mags! But, being bi, I guess thats not
a major deal for you.
Seriously, whats up with the asterisk? Since when are they Wal*Mart instead of just plain old Wal Mart or Wal-Mart?
With RFID, the packer could have scanned the sealed box to verify that the box contained what it was supposed to and I could have assigned the second packer a different task. Our labor savings would have reduced our cost of goods which, believe it or not, in a competitive environment gets passed on to the customer.
You want cynicsm, try running a business and watch the government eat your cash balance. That makes you wonder why you bother.
In some places, you can't build more roads. London handled the congestion issue by charging a downtown toll. You drive into downtown London, you pay a fee. The idea appears to be working as congestion is down. Perhaps someone in London can comment?
put the RFID tags on the individual products? Some cheap device that contains info on the product. I'm sure this is in place already. Regardless, having this avaliable would be great for a self-checkout deal. Some of the supercenters around here (Kansas) have the self-checkout lanes, but I call it scan-n-sack-your-own-shit-cause-we're-lazy-bastard s.
Just imagine... you walk up with a cart full of shit while a cleark offers to bag up your stuff (still havn't scanned a thing), the register gives your total, you slide your CC or inject cash and your off. Of course, detecting more than one of the same object might be tricky. Maybe a unique ID for each product ID.
I just can't wait till I can go in somewhere and grab someting off the shelf, stuff it in my pocket and walk right out w/o ever having to deal with an employee. (IBM comes to mind...) It would be like having your own warehouse with an endless supply of needful things. Depending on how deep your bank account is of course.
mod parent up
Maybe you should look up the definition of monopoly before tossing it around.
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Right now the smallest -- and I mean THE smallest -- RFID tag I've seen (I work with them on a daily basis... yes, the ePC tags that Wal-Mart has asked for) is 3 inches long and a half-inch wide. I've got another one from a different manufacturer that's 1.5 inches square. We're not talking about things that are hard to find and remove here.
Why are they so huge? Antennas.
Yes, the tags themselves will continue to get smaller and cheaper. But the antennas aren't going to get any smaller; they have to be large, so that the tag can pick up the 925MHz signal from the reader to power itself on and transmit a signal back.
"Oh, but eventually they'll be woven into your clothes, right?" Well, do you know anyone involved in the textile industry? Ask them about how much it would cost to weave an antenna into a polo shirt. Right now the embroidery machines that are used to put the little guy on a horse are so expensive, that if you don't already have a contract to make them, you can't get a loan from the bank or investors to buy them at your factory. (Girlfriend's uncle runs a factory that makes polo shirts, that's how I know.) We're not talking about something cheap or simple here.
Be realistic about the technology here. Because of the need for large antennas, what's realistic with RFID technology is that even at the product level the tags will be large and easily removed from the item by the consumer or at the register. They'll attach it to the box, not the product, where it'll have a better chance of being picked up by the reader.
You can make the tags smaller, but you can't make the antennas smaller without cranking up the readers' power to levels that would nuke your testicles. That isn't going to happen.
Realistically, the Orwellian RFID nightmare is impossible.
Almost a year ago, when I was quitting smoking, I was using Nicoderm patches. I used to get them at the corner drug store but once went to a Shoppers Drug Mart (usually avoided because of loyalty crap but I was with someone else and had little choice at the time)... when I opened the box, there were no less than THREE RFID TAGS in it! One was a flat and square sticker like the ones used in libraries, the other two were different sized rectangular, flat, and plastic coated.
To top it off, they're still scanning the UPC code on the outside of the box...
if you want people to think you know what you are talking about, just put ".com" at the end of everything you say.com
I recently read an article (from a consumer protection show) of a stubborn lady. She check every single items on the receipt and ask for the "3$ rebate of free" policy.
In the last 3 years, she caught about 50 items per year. Every single time favoring the store!
In a particular store the abuse was so frequent the cashiers started to recognize her. One day a cashier told her "the manager told us not to give you the rebate anymore", she asked for the manager, apparently it was slowing down the line, she was abusing the policy, and all sort of BS.
Of course she won the argument, but was warned the store did not want her as a costumer anymore.
How much does that pay an hour? ;-)
This sounds like the MANNA story by Marshall Brain. It's a good read.
I don't have a problem with RFID in the cases. As soon as my package of razors or whatever is taken out of the case, it is no longer trackable by RFID.
No privacy problems there, just inventory management.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
No, I'm saying that at the State Fair, I use my IPaq and point my mini/directional antenna at your butt right in front of me in line. Then mug you behind the cotten candy stand...
Campaign finance reform is national security.
Wal-Mart is my local grocery & department store.
...because they have everything you need right there in the same store. I don't have the kind of time on my hands to hit 8 different places around town. Does that make me a pig?
My blog can kick your blog's ass
There are at least two blogs on RFID and privacy, at: www.rfidprivacy.org and www.stapleton-gray.com/surpriv/
I haven't been following the RFID debate but I know there's been one. The article briefly mentions that opponents fear RFID tags threaten privacy. I don't get how the way the store tags its merchandise threatens anybody's privacy. If you pay cash then there's nothing to tie an item to you, whether it's RFID-tagged or not. And if you use credit, how is anybody going to learn anything more from RFID-tagged items than they could learn right now from a store's credit transaction records?
RFID TAGS ARE GOOD!
Think about it... you could have express checkout... slide credit card on cart, and be able to walk out and it pays for it all. No more lines.
Anyone against RFID like this is just anti-progressive.
Also, it is called competition. Walmart competes better than small stores, they have lower prices, so people go there.
i've used an RFID reader on an small CE device.. you'd practically have to shove it up my ass to get it to read. The range (for large 1-2" tags) is around an inch or less.
If they ever did something like this it would be far easier to just get an RFID strip that responded to every request and stick it in the corner of your wallet or purse. Problem solved.