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Xbox Next to Include PC/Console Hybrid Option?
Pluvius writes "According to CNN/Money staffer Chris Morris, Microsoft's next-gen game console, XBox Next, could be PC- and XBox-compatible and retail for $599. This was one of many possibilities for the console which was explored by the B/R/S Group, a marketing firm which recently did focus testing for Microsoft. This theoretical console would also require a PC monitor or HDTV to display images and come with a full version of Windows as well as a CD burner and a keyboard and mouse. However, Morris notes that even if this hybrid becomes a reality, it would probably be an alternative to a standalone XBox Next console, much like the Sony PSX is to the PlayStation 2. Would you be willing to pay $600 for a console with all of the capabilities of a standard OEM PC?"
I would rather use an XBox(next) emulator on my PC!
No.
Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.
$300 is the most ppl will pay for a console these days at launch
Why not just buy a computer?
Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
Would you be willing to pay $600 for a console with all of the capabilities of a standard OEM PC?
If it has all of the capabilities of a standard OEM PC then isn't it a PC?
I buy a video game console to play video games, not to do my homework/surf porn/read email.
But this type of story on Slashdot makes me wonder... One minute Microsoft is the biggest, evilest monster that ever was, the next, everyone's a fanboy for the Xbox. What's up with that?
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
and it will go in the net, never get patched... yay
Linux. In my simplistic mind, the more a console looks like a PC the more possible it is to run Linux.
And maybe this will make it a lot easier to pirate the games! And by "pirate" I mean "make fair-use backups with a DVD burner" of course.
"TV is great! Every New Year's I make a resolution to watch more TV." - Ann Coulter
Definitely - and I think that a great deal of the public would as well, especially if MS could market this well. Think of it this way - parents are going to buy their kids consoles as well as computers for school anyway. How can MS lose if they combine the two at a price point that beats the combined price?
Would you be willing to pay $600 for a console with all of the capabilities of a standard OEM PC? Microsoft Branded? Heck!, NO!!!
The package said "Windows XP or better. Pentium Class Processor or better"... So I got a Mac with OS X
Yes, I would under the following conditions:
a. all games made with for windows with directx there on in SHOULD/AND WILL run at full speed.
b. I will not have to upgrade my system to run better/newer games in 2-3 years later.
Would you be willing to pay $600 for a console with all of the capabilities of a standard OEM PC?"
No, but I would be willing to pay $600 dollars for a standard OEM PC with all of the capabilities of a console. Oh wait. I already did that.
"I have great faith in fools: Self confidence my friends call it." ~Edgar Allan Poe
XBox is already already "pc compatible". The only thing different is the boot process.
http://www.xbox-linux.org/
http://www.xboxmediacenter.com/
"...a generation of kids has grown up thinking Trance is the shittiest music since country and western." - Paul van Dyk
Perhaps the huge price would stem from the inclusion of extra x86 processors? It's been identified that the SDK for the next Xbox is a dual 2GHz G5 with a customized NT kernel.
I think the next Xbox won't likely be backwards compatible, and at a price like that, nobody could afford it!
I'd have to say no. These systems are known to not be reliable -- many Xbox harddrives have failed, dvd drives have failed, but the loss isn't too great .. would you expect the same from your own PC -- losing all your data? I think not.
This is actually a good point. Microsoft will probably lock it out so you can only run Windows on the thing in "PC" mode. It won't be a complete, standard PC, that's for sure.
Sorry MS. I'll buy it if I can run non-Microsoft operating systems on it. Can we say "milking a cash cow"?
This is ridiculous, anyone remember 3DO? Of course not.
A 600 dollar console will never fly, and everyone knows it. Even if it is a PC too (remember the 3DO Blaster add-on card from Creative?)
So these consultants put it to a focus group. Just another option, it's all about billing as many hours as possible.
XBox Next will be another console, hell kits have been shipped to devs. We're past speculation.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
The only console I remember ever being higher-priced was an equally niche-market effort, the Net Yaroze, a development-equipped PS1 put out by Sony. Not many people bought it, because of price and because most people who play games don't want to develop them. This isn't exactly the same situation, but seems to appeal to about the same number of people and is priced accordingly.
Sort of a silly question to ask this crowd. Virtually all of us already have a relatively decent PC, and upgrade it regularly. An XBox almost certainly wouldn't meet our needs.
This will probably appeal more to the less technically-literate population. Instead of buying the $600 Dell and the $250 game console for the kids, you buy the $600 XBox instead. If marketed correctly, Microsoft should clean up on this.
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
Yeah, standard OEM PC. Sure. After the encryption, DRM, automatic 'upgrades' by Xbox live. This is Microsoft we're talking about here, this thing will be so crippled it'll be next to useless except for playing games. Get out yer tinfoil hat kids.
Who moderates the meta-moderators?
how many hours it will take for someone to figure out how to hack it to run Linux. It should be mostly the same as Xbox-Linux
But, I still would never pay 600 bucks for it when I can still get the Linare PC for 200 bucks and is comporable, if not better.
bash: rtfm: command not found
I wonder who their target audience is. Maybe people who have so little money they can't afford two screens? (it's a hard market, with decent CRT monitors going for $70)
Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
No, not interested in the least in Bill's attempt to take over the PC market with his "trojan horse".
Thats all the XBox was meant to be from the beginning...a pc in disguise, except its "0wn3d" by Bill.
FOAD Bill.
A few random, disconnected thoughts, in stream-of-consciousness style:
Would you be willing to pay $600 for a console with all of the capabilities of a standard OEM PC?
Well, why not just buy a "standard OEM PC" in the first place? You can get a decent machine from the Dells and Gateways of the world for about that much, and it could do more than this "theoretical console" could--you could use it to play games but also do to actually useful stuff, and it would also be upgradeable. You'd be sacrificing Xbox compatibility, sure, but, realistically, how many good Xbox games are out there that don't have PC ports? The only one I can name off the top of my head is Panzer Dragoon Orta. And, even though Xbox 2 is apparently going to have some radical design changes, and some have speculated that this might end the trend of games being jointly developed for the PC and the Xbox, that's still probably not going to happen. This is Microsoft--Windows and Xbox are their big markets. They're trying to create synergy between them, of a kind. The Xbox API and the DirectX API are similar, so it's not like porting costs them any real effort, and it probably dramatically increases their sales--especially if they really do sell Xboxen at a loss and make their money in game software. As long as Microsoft's publishing a game, does it really matter what platform it's for?
Last I heard, Microsoft will be using a IBM processor for the X-Box2 (presumably Power5 architecture). If the console runs a version of Windows, this would mean that Microsoft will yet again be writing a version of Windows to run on Power5 architecture. Therefore, desktop PCs could presumably be based on Power5 CPUs in the near future. This could get interesting :)
This is Microsoft's attempt to start a Microsoft brand Personal Computer. Since they probably could not undercut companies like Gateway and Dell, they're trying to force their way in through the console industry.
Would you be willing to pay $600 for a console with all of the capabilities of a standard OEM PC? That thing would have to cook me some dammned good curly fries.
Could they even legally do this? Wouldn't that be some type of conflict of interest? If they sell windows to computer manufactures... Wait a minute... Why even sell the hardware? Come up with a performance spec and give the manufactures a royalty payment for the amount of consoles that they sell times the amount of games sold times one over some magic number greater than one! They could call the OS Win/G and they wouldn't have to include 3.1. God I am getting old.
..but I don't see what the point is.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
But it does Rhyme Does this remind you oldsters of the Coleco Adam?
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
Sarcasm may work, sometimes not.
Microsoft is in fact a huge threat to open source, for small companies, for hardware manufacturers - In fact, most companies involved in electronics are threatened by Microsoft in one way or the other.
If you want to make a statement, you have to be consequent. If some of us hate this product because Microsoft made it, it's for a reason.
Making fun of the anti-microsofters doesn't work. If you expect us to love this product, it's the same as if environment activists are driving polluting V12's just because it sounds so good.
This sounds like it could make the ultimate home theatre PC. If this was small enough to fit my stereo rack and quiet enough not to disturb me when watching TV or a movie I'd certainly consider buying it. Especially if I could run HTPC software from Windows to stream downloaded media.
-Evstar
There are better hardware choices for you to run other OSes on.
Want Linux or the equivalent? Buy some retail components and assemble your own computer
Want OS X? Buy an Apple.
Only if you want to run Windows would it make sense to buy a piece of crap OEM machine with Windows preinstalled.
I would be willing to pay for a console that has games which are compatible with their PC counterparts.
-illumina+us "I put on my robe and wizard hat..."
"Would you be willing to pay $600 for a console with all of the capabilities of a standard OEM PC?"
Caveat: I'm a current Xbox owner. It's a great system overall.
I'd get this new system under some conditions:
1.) They stick with the current 2K kernel. Outside of a few games here and there, the current Xbox kernel has been rock solid. No more or less than the GameCube/PS2. If they switch to a full-fledged version of Windows, I'm bailing.
2.) They get a large contingent of companies supporting it. I'm not talking PS2-size, but current Xbox-size.
3.) They don't offer "upgrades" for the system. Doing so would defeat the purpose.
4.) They go with a more common architecture than their current "shared memory frankensystem". It works for games, but I can't even use the DVD drive in another computer without an adapter.
5.) They stick with the Xbox's strengths: great (perhaps the best) online games, solid use of the technology (they had games using pixel shaders before they even became popular on the PC), and good specs for the money.
Do that and I'll be all over it.
And soon MS will start selling their own PCs, and companies like Dell who are in bed with MS will be the victim. And of course, Windows will be optimized for MS PCs.
Wow, only $600 for a PC I can't choose the components, which are probably somehow proprietary anyway and thus non upgradable. What a deal. This will be a great addition to that $3000+ Tablet PC that is somehow far better than my $2 paper notebook =P
Net Yaroze was too expensive and too limiting in terms of what could be done with it, as everything had to fit into 2 MiB and couldn't access the serial port or optical drive to load more data. That's why the second time around, Sony made a cheaper package called PS2 Linux, which opened access to almost all of the PS2, including USB and FireWire connections for purposes such as storage, input, and networking, except for the custom internal optical drive and any PS1- or PS2-file-system media in the memory card slots.
MS has, over the years, used their monopoly in Operating Systems to dominate software - they now either control or have a substantial offering in virtually every major software category.
Now, having put major competitors all out of business, would we really want a world where MS had a monopoly on the software AND the hardware for the entire computing industry?
Bye-bye Dell, Compaq, HP, IBM, etc...!?!?
Sorry, no. This is too much. I can't bear it any more. If Microsoft does this, they are turning on their best friends, the OEMs.
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
Slashdotters get excited over the $500 video cards coming out from NVidia (FX6800) and ATI (R420). According to all the rumors, the XBOX Next video hardware is going to blow both of these away.... the question is would you pay $600 for a system that had the equivalent of 3 HyperThreaded P4's and a video card that blew away an FX6800?
I think most people here would answer yes to that!
Instead of buying the $600 Dell and the $250 game console for the kids, you buy the $600 XBox instead.
Thinking like this is why the GameCube doesn't play DVD Video. Nintendo realized that the PS2 won't let one kid watch a Meg Ryan marathon and another play Soul Calibur II on the same $150 PS2 console at the same time. However, you can watch a Meg Ryan marathon on a sub-$50 Norcent DVD player while your $100 GameCube, connected to a second TV, runs SC2. Likewise, you can do spreadsheets on a PC and play SC2 on an Xbox, but you won't be able to do spreadsheets and play SC2 on the same Xbox 2 unless 1. the video is dual-head and 2. the real-time multitasking is better than what the current Windows OS provides.
you think security might be an issue with these puppies
Time Spent using the new Xbox as normal computer: 0 hours a week
Yeah, that's really gonna help kids study at school. Get them a machine specifically made to play the latest and greatest games, with a PC as an afterthought.
This seems like a gimmick to take in the less update-to-date parents, and get them to buy tech toys for their kids.
If your kid is going to school, buying them a gaming platform is probably not a very good idea.
Remember that Microsoft also owns some really good x86 emulation/virtualization software which already runs on the Power architecture...
Funny that Microsoft got in bed with perhaps the worlds largest Linux advocates to power their next console.
from those that modded their's to run Windows/*nix.
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Or at least turn it to your advantage.
In C++, friends can touch each others private parts.
Just because the dev kits have shipped, doesn't mean that the applications for the system can't change. Suppose they replaced the current dashboard with a version of windows, and gave us a keyboard and mouse combo with it. It would be a pc, without effecting how it plays games. The fact that there are linux setups that work on the Xbox, without effecting the game ability proves this. They could easily add a specialized version of windows with full keyboard and mouse support. Heck, if they wanted to, they could do it for the current Xbox.
-"Would you be willing to pay $600 for a console with all of the capabilities of a standard OEM PC?"
..
.. well - for sure not ..
...
.. and i avoid it as much as possible
:)
for an oem pc+ xbox yes, maybe
for winmodem, winkeybord winmouse and other windows only devices -equipped pc
do not misunderstand me, i have an xbox net to my playstation2, and work on a linux box and have bsd servers
ms hardware is good quality (kwyboard, mouse, xbox & controllers) but software is a pain in the ass
yeah-yeah i'm typing it on my wife's laptop, but thats the only thing i can type on in my bed right now
I have never given in to the whole console scam, because I saw it as just that: A way to make money.
Vendors could have standardized around some kind of well known architecture like i386 and made Stable-brand(tm) computers and achieved the same functionality as your ordinary console, but what profit is to be had in that? They want to sell exclusive titles on all the platforms, so you need a PC for work _and_ and 2-3 consoles for gaming.
It seems to me that this announcement is moving away from that trend. Wait, Microsoft doing a good thing?! (yes, I know its all about the money)
As much as I hate microsoft, I am in support of some kind of trendy standardization. If all consoles supported x86 machine code natively, we could all use our console of choice and play the same games - more choices, less money.
Now if only I could install FreeBSD on it...
Coleco tried this long long ago. Flew like a lead baloon.
I would. Why?
:)
Did you forget that it's going to be a G5 processor?
I will have a fully functional G5 Macintosh! Install OS X on that and I can party
I hate the XBox...but if I could turn it into a Mac, and it had good performance...:) I could have some serious fun. It would have a fast processor and a big graphics card.
In addition to the XBox Next games, I could play Mac OS X games!
I use my PC for doing PC things. When I want to sit in front of the boob toob and veg out, I use the digital cable box thingy (Scientific Atlantic with my cable provider). Works great for me.
:)
Oh, I don't have a game console - my Mac plays all the games I need. Of course, now that I have a son, maybe HE needs a PSX
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
I remember when consoles were all the rage (Atari, Intellivision, Colecovision). When PC's became more affordable, consoles died out.
That's why Nintendo was a bit of a mystery to me (and the ensuing Sega, Playstation, etc). But the reason was simple; if you wanted to play games, they were cheap, and did the job well.
I think the better combo would be console/media TV device, like the XBox Media PC. It's cheap, and does the job well.
Ruby on Rails Screencast
Well, the only real reason I can think of, would be Xbox live. The PC online community lacks anything close to the unified solution that it provides.
They should swap out the CD burner for a DVD burner and you can have an all-in-one XBox game backup center! ;-)
The current xbox is as close to a PC as i can ever imagine a Microsoft creation can be. Microsoft surely would not put a standard PC BIOS in the XBOX 2 and hacks would surely be needed to convince the thing to run properly in any other configuration. Microsoft is not about standards other then the unofficial ones it creates itself. From what I have seen the current XBOX is just a mod or even a saved game away from becoming a full PC. If marketed right it I could see it taking a good amount of the market but a few things would have to be fixed. These are no things most people here on /. think of. The biggest is the aesthetic of the XBOX. In the adds I saw it and thought it looked pretty good, sleek, stylish and such but once i saw it in real life i could hardly believe it. It was big, clunky and UGLY. That would surely need to be fixed. Look at the PS2 and tell me it doesn't look good AND fit into a living room.
Also people would want this to be extremely user friendly, possibly more then a standard PC. In order to keep costs down I can't see the crippled windows running while in game mode, though a hibernation of sorts may solve this problem, but also impatience for the OS to load may be a problem.
One more problem i could see is such standardization. What if somebody wants to store 100GB of movies on the new XBOX2, surely not every XBOX2 will be equipped with a 100GB HD, will there different models?
If anybody could pull this off it is Microsoft but I still have my doubts.
P.S. XBOX is popular on /. simply for its hackable potential leaving a cheap PC.
Burn Bright or Fade Away
Come on folks, this is a console. The whole point is to have fairly raw access to the hardware, to keep things lean and fast and mean. That's how consoles--and most performance-oriented embedded systems--work. And you want to put a relatively bloated operating system like Linux or BSD on there? Why? Okay, the article is talking about putting Windows on there for some things, but not for games, and probably not a full-blown Windows system anyway, but something simple and cut-back, like DirectX on the original Xbox. But people clamoring for Linux or BSD on this kind of system...it's like people wanting to put a jumbo jet body on a fighter plane.
"This theoretical console would also require a PC monitor or HDTV to display images and come with a full version of Windows as well as a CD burner and a keyboard and mouse."
Yes, you can buy one now and for considerably less money - Dell
You wouldn't be able to install OS X. Just having a G5 doesn't make any machine Mac-compatible.
Didn't Coleco prove very well nearly two decades ago that consumers do not want a video game console that can be upgraded to a home computer?
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
We've come full circle...
The C64 and the Atari 400/800 were marketed as combo/home computer advanced game machines..
Although oddly enough I remember the C64 only being $200.. of course it didn't have a CD-Rom drive which I guess is the extra $399...
Must I point out that the XBox 2 is confirmed to be shipping with IBM's Power PC chip line? That development machines have come on Apple G5's with a special version of Windows loaded?
You can't just swap out the iron and expect everything to work hunky-dorey. That's got to break a lot of drivers, high-end applications, etc, etc... I'd doubt many programs would run without a re-compile.
Probability: not bloody likely.
Next.
The ______ Agenda
MS has said it WILL NOT equip its next Xbox with a hard drive. They have hired on M-Systems an Israeli flash mem maker to replace the HD. Supposedly with something like this, but this flies in the face of most of the things this system is supposed to be capable of. Can they afford to give it a large enough solid state HD to work as a DVR/Tivo? Or to install and run PC games? I think not. So I guess we shall wait and see.
I'd buy it in a heartbeat. This could be an amazing product if done half right.
I think people who say this sucks cause it won't run Linux or doesn't let you install your own OS have way too much time on their hands. Keep bashing Microsoft all you want - but at least they are doing something. IBM, Apple, Oracle, Sun, etc....they all could have entered the console market. They all have the money and the brand to stand up there. They didn't. They all could have battled for the OS for the living room - they didn't.
Microsoft did. Bitch and whine about the OS monopoly all you want, but Microsoft took alot of risk here in a vicious market and they deserve the benefits. I'll gladly hate Microsoft when it's warranted, but when they release a XBOX+PC for the HDTV+Sofa.....I applaud them.
As I understand it, it should work with most hardware in the way of hard drives, CD/DVD drives, keyboards, mice, etc etc- all thats required is the PowerPC processor.
:)
However, Apple might have put blocks on to prevent installation on non-Apple computers. I know that you can't install OS X on old beige G3's.
Which is why there are hacks that let you do it
I've heard of people hacking OS X to install it on a beige G3.
much like the Sony PSX is to the PlayStation 2
WHAT !?!? the PS2 is the successor to the PSX... neither is a stripped down version of the other. the PS2 came out several years *after* the PSX.
Couldn't they think of their own one?
Built-in Windows is nice, but I can't get the picture of having BSoD before the game is saved out of my head.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- If picture worth a thousand words, how many megapixels is it? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
You could install Darwin at least.
English is easier said than done.
I was wondering who the target audience was for this. People who want to develop and play their own games, but on a platform that not many people will have.
hehehe Score -5. Deluded.
I believe this would be an excellent feature. I know it would be great to have games running off of one console displaying on two tvs.
It would make dual player games so much fun, and more realistic.
It would also make single player RPGs easier to navigate and modify.
Jeoin
My actual, vocalized reply upon reading the last line of the post: "yes, absof**kinglutley!"
As someone who uses a Mac as my desktop machine and only has Linux installed on my other hardware (all of which are incapable of running the games I actually want to play), I would be infinitely more stoked to pay 600 bucks for a console on which I could play games from two platforms, rather than paying $400 for the next XBox and then another couple thou to buy myself a decent gaming machine.
And yes, I understand that this console wouldn't actually be anywhere near equivalent to a $2000 PC, but that's exactly the point: the only time I ever use Windows or ever need a powerful machine is to play games, so craming both consoles into one sounds like a great idea to me.
This all coming from someone who has always had an extreme aversion to dropping 400 clams on a console because I thought they never did enough "stuff." I certainly hope this fantasy comes true, even if it is from Microsoft!
Everything I've heard thus far is that Microsoft dropped Intel and is using IBM chips in the Xbox2. So that would limit this "hybrid" to running applications compiled especially for this device, which drastically reduces the usefulness of it, IMO.
...so get your goddamned sticky hands off my console.
Just because a PC is useful for a number of tasks other than gaming, doesn't mean I want a PC (with it's associated dangly bits - keyboard, mouse) attached to my television.
I want to play games. I do not need, nor want, the ability to surf the web, check email, or write a letter in Word. I do not want a keyboard or mouse. I do not want green eggs and ham. I do not want them Sam I am.
I already have a PC. It does what it does well.
As does my XBox.
gadgetophile.com
If the PowerPC rumours are true (which they appear to be) then that means that Windows will be made for PowerPC. Most likely a 64-bit version as well.
... people get an XBox Next, get Windows Next, and Office Next and IE Next and Outlook Next ... and it is a year before competitors even have a port ready and Microsoft have a monopoly on a whole new area, and then slowly phase out x86 PC support over the next 5 years.
...
I wonder what the first native PowerPC software for "Windows Next" will be? Microsoft software? Yes!
So
Compaq, Dell, etc, have to become XBox Next OEMs to survive after this time.
Microsoft have a 100% strangehold on the market by 2015 - hardware, software, licensing.
We'll be wondering what happened to cheap PCs that we could install Linux on.
Yeah, this might be a pessimistic view of things
quite frankly CRAZY. The whole point of a console is a platform that doesn't change. Doesn't change. Doesn't change.
Selling a console with PC capabilities will cause World War 3!
I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.
So MS is going to push the Xbox2 as a platform for gaming and computing. However, it's going to be running on PowerPC chip. Most software would require some work to be ported to WindowsPPC, which would severely limit the amount of applications available for the Xbox2.
I guess this explains why they bought Virtual PC.
look at PearPC...it just barely emulates a G3 and that's still enough to run OS X on it.
however, since I haven't heard any success stories of MacOS on any other non-Apple PPC hardware (except obviously the old clones) i would still have my doubts...
I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
It's MUCH more likely PowerPC 970 (aka G5). The Power5 is for really high-end servers.
The reason the lastest games run poorly on your nice new hardware 6 months down the line, is because the developers are busy working with some new video card.
Why bother making optimisations when you can expect people to have more memory, faster processors..?
The console market works because developers learn how to develop for a set configuration (the difference in quality between early PS1 games and later releases was massive).
If you know there's a specific PC configuration that a few million potential customers (YMMV) are going to have, you're going to make pretty sure that your software runs nicely on it (especially given that due to the nature of this new xbox thingy, their owners are more likely to buy games than the average PC owner).
That would drive the established PC manufacturers hard to Linux and turn MS into an Apple, not a good strategy for them.
I don't see MS screwing themselves like that.
Cheers,
Billy
bamph
Consumers do not want a PC that's a piece of turd made from obsolete components (tape drives, daisy-wheel printer, soon x86 CPUs, etc) . (Yes, I had an ADAM, and it WAS a piece of turd).
no
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
The XBox Next doesn't come with a monitor or screen.
If you want a living room media unit, you can get a Mini-ITX from VIA or (soon) from AMD. Put the other 400$ towards a nice projector/screen/whatever, et voila: home cinema.
Or spend 600$ on an average Gaming-PC with a 17"-19" screen.
Or spend 600$ on club visits and booze to finally get laid once your lifetime.
"All you have to do is be fragile and grateful. So stay the underdog." Chuck Palahniuk, Choke
Why dont we ask Sony who is still trying to sell off all the Linux kits they made that no one bought for the PS 2
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
The same platform would open up cross-platform integration opportunities, letting PC and Xbox owners play in the same world, though each would have different experience. (PC gamers, for example, could act as virtual generals in a strategy game, coordinating troop movements, while Xbox players playing an action version of the same title would fight the battles.)
Oh you mean like Natural Selection did over a year and a half ago?
Nice innovation there CNN/Microsoft.
(Not the cross-platform bit, the "general" and "soldier" bit)
Homonyms are fun!
You're driving your car, but they're riding their bikes there.
I wonder why I'm getting Coleco deja vu....
Back when dinosaurs walked the earth, all of the console manufacturers at least prototyped addons for their consoles that would turn them into general purpose machines. The ADAM was availiable both as an addon for the ColecoVision and as a Colecovision compatible computer. One of the reasons it bombed (apart from some engineering gaffs and QC problems) was that there wasn't as much overlap between console and computer users as you might think. Then as now computers had a keyboard that consoles didn't as well as styles of games consoles didn't. You just didn't lay in the floor playing Temple of Aphsai. Something like Astroblast was more fun on the family room TV.
Faced with the '84 crash, everybody else canned their console/computer hybrids. I suspect that once again the console/computer will be a solution looking for a problem.
DVR functionality could come in a kit form that includes the hard drive and encoder/decoder boards. I imagine the neatest way to accomplish this would be an expansion port on the bottom of the machine. The kit itself would just low flat box the main console clips onto.
Having console games depend on that being present is a bad idea IMHO.
It has been said before, it's as simple as changing the microcode to make the G5 not a PPC chip.
I hate grammar Nazi's.
When this puppy comes out, the original Xbox is going to turn up in garage sales and thrifts. I never believed the blather about "hurting" MS by buying an XBox and putting Linux on it. I wouldn't mind snagging one for 20 bucks and putting Linux on it though.
Don't be silly. A standard OEM PC will run Linux. You can bet that any computer or game console made by Microsoft will not be able to. And a OEM PC without a monitor costs less than $600.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
No no no... The problem with the current model is microsoft is stuck making the boxes.
Microsoft, can do better... That is let your OEM's MAKE the boxes. This allows the market to come up with packages to sell into the living room. They will be able to decide whether or not to include media edition, xbox, and other things.
There are many ways to include the xbox, likely for content control it would be a daughter card in the box.
And I for one would want one. I want a PC on my HDTV, and there are no decent solutions yet.
This wont go anywhere and we all know it.
Maybe we will finally get a "media center" that is compatible with OS X - and the bizarre thing is that it will come from Microsoft.
The only problem is that the OS X end user license only allows installation on "Apple-labeled computers" - so what do you think the chances are that the XBox Next will have an apple on them somewhere?
MS is probably just looking for sweeter deals from Intel. The unholy Wintel alliance has been too good for MS to abandon. Perhaps this would be good for whoever writes PowerPC emulators for IA64, but I think Intel will do whatever it takes to keep the desktop market.
MS ships game console.
MS ships PC that doubles as game console.
For a few dollars less, you can buy a PC that doesn't do the game console thing.
For quite a few dollars more, you can buy a kick ass machine.
I see this as their strategy to finally enter the hardware market.
I read an interesting story a while back (perhaps on /.) where the author made the point that even when MS is sued by the Gov, MS still wins. With legal maneuverings, legal delays, and etc., by the time the courts are ready to impose a remedy, MS has already taken down their opponents. And the costs and penalties are insignificant when compared to the immense value of being intrenched in the market.
If the rumors are true and this puppy comes with 3 PowerPC 970 chips in it...for $600, hell yeah I'd buy it.
Open hardware is getting to be burden, I believe Microsoft would rather lose at this point.
This machine simply makes it easier to extend their control.
Problem is the userbase and applications. Getting the gamers on board is smart, but won't quite do the job for apps.
Blogging because I can...
You bet yer ace!
All seven of them?!
Mod me offtopic if you want, but I'd like to point out that independent game developers have begun to realize the potential market for games on the Mac.
For example, GarageGames is an independent game publisher whose majority of titles are available for Windows, Mac, and Linux. From what I understand, the profits they make from Linux and Mac versions combined comes awfully close to the profits made from Windows versions.
Now, if only larger publishers would see this market, then... well... then I suppose the Mac gaming market would become just as saturated as the PC game market. This could be good or bad, depending on your point of view.
...have left me unimpressed. I'd rather play my GameCube or the PS2- and there's a lot more to offer in those playgrounds than Microsoft has come to bear. The only game I might be cajoled into considering buying an XBox of an XBox Next over would be Shenmue 3 if it ever comes out.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
the reason its' so popular is the same reason that windows is
because there are TONS OF PIRATED GAMES OUT THERE AND ITS EASY TO PIRATE YOUR OWN (once you get some geek to mod it), in addition to that the hacked firmware and tools people have provided make one desireable. and contrary to popular belief there are even good titles out there, we're talking about M$ here they have some muscle a new gaming console market entree (ie phantom) doesn't have so they get good titles, go play Ninja Gaiden and dont take a shower for a week like me.
having said all that its too much work for me to fuck with, i play pc games, i'm just talking about friends i know and why they have them
M$ loses money on the consoles, if you pirate the games they lose out there too, what they're doing is getting a foothold with which to kill Sony/Nintendo first THEN extend their grasp to kill the PC market using these hybrid monsters as well
Jesus christ! Their market was kids who want to spend a few hundred bucks on a console system to play video games with their friends. No one is going to spend $600. Why? Because kids usually aren't the ones who buy these! These come as christmas or birthday presents. Parents aren't going to shell out $600 for a hybrid computer when they've already shelled out money for the computer. College kids who buy these don't have that kind of cash to burn. They need to make these systems impulse buys. Their price now at $150 makes them an impulse buy for kids with cash to burn. At $600 it's a major purchase.
I hate to join the anti-microsoft bandwagon, but if sony or nintendo were doing this, I'd feel the same way.
This just shows how they've completely lost sight of their market.
Didn't Microsoft already say the next Xbox would be based on PowerPC? When they say a "standard" OEM PC, are they talking about an Intel-compatible PC? If that's the case, do they intend to emulate it, or ship with two processors? Or are they talking about the possibility to run a full copy of OSX on the thing, which would actually be cool?
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
This sounds like the hugely obscure Amstrad Mega PC. It was a 386 SX 25 MHz with a whole 1MB of RAM and a Sega MegaDrive all in the one box. The main problem was that the PC started life underpowered and was hard to upgrade, so half of it became out of date particularly fast. Destined to become a collectors' item.
What's the expected usage pattern like?
I guess you would drag the XboxPC to the desk when you need to use the stable keyboard and mouse to get higher accuracy, and then drag it back to the lounge room when you need to play four player games with some friends.
I'm guessing users would eventually get pissed off with this idea and buy two. At that point, what is the one in the lounge room for, again? And wouldn't a more powerful computer (but which can't play Xbox games) cost less than $600?
There are probably a few cases where the lounge room might be acceptable for a PC game, but there can't be many. At risk of being sued by Penny Arcade, calling something a "console which plays PC games" really is like calling something an "apple orange".
Microsoft must just be testing the water to see if anyone took the Phantom seriously on launch. Personally, they can do whatever they want with the next Xbox, as long as it can be hacked to become a media player and has significant improvements over the original, I will buy one.
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
this doesn't surprise me one bit. i think microsoft has always envied apple's control over the hardware, and here they have the opportunity to create a fixed development platform where they don't have to worry about every random peripheral someone wants to use.
as an added bonus, this completely locks the user into using MS's OS, as I'm sure installing Linux or any other OS would probably consitute a DMCA violation, plus MS gets to reap all the licensing fees for any 3rd party software written for it.
geez... they oughta be paying ME $600 to use it...
This is probably going to attract a bit of heat, but I think the Xbox is actually going to do a lot of good for the PC games industry. Let's face it, the PS2 was totally soaring ahead a couple of years ago with almost no competition. It's still big, but there's a second choice now.
The PC games market has been eroding somewhat, due to the high cost of entry, and the fact that most modern games simply won't run properly on even current OEM boxes (i.e. ones with onboard video). You need to spend $200 on a video card to get a game above console quality, unless you're playing titles like Half-Life or Quake 3! Farcry? Forget it, you need to be spending even more.
The Xbox is keeping developers interested in developing games on a PC-like architecture, and this means that they will either develop for the PC first, and tweak over to the Xbox, or vice versa. Simply, it means the PC won't die as a gaming platform, as long as the Xbox is popular, and as long as Microsoft doesn't get too heavy with 'Xbox exclusive' titles.. and considering Halo is out on the PC, this doesn't appear to be the case.
So are we gonna have Windows running on the PowerPC, or will the Xbox 2 be running Mac OS X?
XBox 2 SDK released on PowerMac G5s
XBox 2 to sport 3 64-bit IBM Chips
Microsoft leaks details about XBox Next
XBox 2 innards laid bare on web
Just think of the implications of Microsoft producing a PowerPC based PC...
The difference here is that a PS2 console with a built-in DVD Video player is entertainment + entertainment. An Xbox with a built-in PC is entertainment + work. I can see bad parents misregulating the use of the Xbox+PC when one box has to be used for both homework and fun and can't do both at once.
I'm not sure why anyone would work on a spreadsheet and play SC2 at the same time
Papa Bear does the spreadsheets while Brother Bear does the SC2.
but having 2 Xbox 2 systems will work just as well as having 1 PC and one Xbox.
Yeah, but then you have to pay full price for both of them. I'm guessing that the Xbox2+PC combo will sell for more than the price of an entry-level PC or an Xbox2 but less than the price of both purchased separately.
I know some people that would love a machine they would see as guaranteed safe
And they would trust Microsoft with the task of building such a machine why?
"Would you be willing to pay $600 for a console with all of the capabilities of a standard OEM PC?"
We all know the answer to this we've all seen this product before. And every time I can think of, the market has responded with a no, no, NO. At the price point they're talking about you can buy a freakin Dell with a flatpanel and all the fixins that will undoubtable be less constrictive in terms of what you can actually run on it. I mean think of how pissy MS is being with the XBox, modding, DRM and everything else and apply it to this product.
Come on, do we really need this history lesson yet again? Their gaming aspirations are dead if this is their next product.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
If it's an OEM PC, then chances are, it'll be proprietary. That means that only certain hardware would be available to use with it. Upgrades could get costly just for that reason. There's also the risk of viruses being able to delete your game data.
But being both a console and a pc would increase game availability dramatically. If it's not available for Xbox, it might be for the PC. And having them together as one unit would keep the gamer on one system.
What? You mean they are going to include a console in that ugly black Celeron PC?
M-Systems have said they will be supplying "large" flash mem units to MS, but actually replacing the hard drive is still only speculation....
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
Try and think of it from the shoes of a person who doesn't have a PC, wants games and the ability for some light computing tasks (email, web, basic office stuff etc). This would be cheaper AND smaller than a console, TV, PC and monitor - just the thing for a college kid who can afford a PC, yes?
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
This idea is a total waste of time. The reason console games took over PCs in game sales is:
1) No need to worry about a game not working. There is no way to guarantee every game will work 100% on the console. They can't even work 100% on the PC without atleast one patch.
2) Zero configuration.
3) Easier to make games for (Yeah you can argue this)
Introducing PC games to a console just creates potential problems with the console not being able to run the games. This ultimately leads in negative feelings toward the console, hurting the brand in ways that can't be measured. I doubt MS wants to create more negative feelings about a brand that they're spending Gagillions to establish.
[Just Shut Up and Do What I say]
It's odd but I've long told folks that there is a reason why Microsoft is wasting billions on the Xbox project. It's much more than just trying to grab the gaming market. Imagine a PC that you could just bring home, plug in and instantly you have your games, online web surfing, e-mail and basic web-processing. This is what an Xbox could become. Impossible you say because Microsoft can't write good software? Well think about it, an Xbox is proprietary hardware. Unlike Windows which needs to deal with a multitude of hardware configurations, the OS at Xbox's heart only needs to deal with one. Microsoft has already proven that they can write stable software on the current Xbox. While true there have been some rare crashes, it's for the most part had the stability of a console. This and the fact that with increasing multimedia capibilities of modern systems a high end Xbox could literally replace your DVD player / recorder, stereo system, and virtually everything else in your home entertainment system. You give this to your end consumers and make it easy to use and you can bet that it will wildly be a success. DRM you say? Well guess what it isn't an issue to customers! Gamecube, PS2, Xbox all have the equivalent of DRM on them. How many average consumers out there do you think are willing to shell out money for the convenience of buying something that works rather than spending ages writing their own software? This is why DRM is not an issue. Sadly, if Microsoft succeeds, we'll soon be stuck with Microsoft branded PCs dominating the market which would be very depressing.
If the xbox2 indeed turns out to be like this,
I will skip it, and opt for Sony's cell based
console instead.
Combo-devices are often a bad idea. A combo
PC/console would feature a sub-quality PC
and a sub-quality console.
Same goes for VHS/DVD combo's, TV/VCR combo's
etc etc.
Bram
Bram Stolk http://stolk.org/tlctc/
Can your PC give you blue screens? CHECK
Does your PC need new drivers every week? CHECK?
Can your PC be infected with spyware? CHECK
Can your PC be used as SPAM generator? CHECK
Can an xbox "boot" in less than a minute? CHECK
Bram Stolk http://stolk.org/tlctc/
I wonder, everyone is talking about windows on PPC. But what about MacOS on an $600 computer? I know a few people, my self included, would like a macosx box, but find the price prohibitive.
if it becomes popular then everyone will drop the old PC standard and start selling these closed/DRM'd systems, i dont really care what other people buy but the computer industry relies on mass-production and if PC sales suddenly drop then PC prices and component prices are going to go up and up to the consumer. This looks like the start of closed hardware - not by law, but by the masses who just want to buy an appliance for typing and games. And guess who will have the DRM keys?
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
i mean really they are saying they are going to make a console system that has a computer add on ?
....
.
umm hello the console is already a computer
why not give the thing a os a keyboard external sata ports and call it a propietary gaming machine ???
I find it hard that microsoft has people so snowed into thinking that the xbox is something special ITS A FREAKING PC it has some special hardware in it that prevents it from being used as a standard pc but heck its a pc it can execute x86 instructions so therfore its a pc.
Now you have microsoft coming out with the next gen system . this time there going to market it as 600 dollar system that can play both x86 pc games written for the windows os and the special ones written for what ever the xbox 2 uses.
so either
its going to have two architectures
or
its going to acheive this feat through emulation
or
its going to be another x86 processor with a doorway into the system to allow you to boot up into a windows os.
i bet its the third
people should ask themselves what makes this any different than a pc to begin with ?
i just dont understand why people fall for this marketing or why this marketing even exists ?
it all boils down to this if it executes x86 code its a freaking ibm pc compaitable computer so therefore it can surf the web play games do seti at home and aid in the development of nucelar weapons to third world countries.
the only thing prevents it from doing any of this is the os and hardware installed.
why buy into the hoopla and belive its anything else to begin with ?
Music the Paint dancefloor the canvas your body the brush
They could build it around Windows XP Embedded. Since we're talking limited hardware expansion, the 500 Mb of drivers needed for Windows XP won't be nessesary.
Also, the idea of blowing $400-$600 for a videogame system may seem exhorbitant, but consider that a prebuilt PC with Windows XP still runs between $300 and $600 (depending on the hardware used, processor speed, etc). This would be ideal for those who want an all in one box.
As far as obsolesence is concerned, the curve between gaming consoles and PCs are actually growing pretty close together. With the amount of competition on the market, both PCs (unless you absolutely have to be on the cutting edge) and consoles go out of date within the same time, requiring for some to plunk down a pile of cash.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
The PC's openness really bothers Microsoft. The only way to "correct" that situation is to turn consumers away from the PC as we know it, towards a "PC" which is closed from all sides (i.e. software and hardware) and Microsoft controls everything about it. The XBox is a nice platform for that.
The first step was to establish the XBox brand name in the public. I think this is already done, since XBox is the no 2 console.
The second step is to lure consumers do tasks on their XBox other than play games...for example, surf the internet, write letters, keep accounts etc.
The third step is to introduce the newest versions of Office and other applications for Windows for XBox first...then slowly delay those apps for the open PCs due to problems arising from the PC's openness (viruses, piracy etc).
The final step is to withdraw from the open PC and only code for XBox, which at the time it will be transformed to a fully fledged computer.
Microsoft also plans to dominate the internet, since the XBox computer will not play with anything else than the Microsoft network. They will claim that security reasons forces them to do so, whereas in fact it was their crappy software.
Nice plan Microsoft. No wonder for the Borg logo.
That would mean you will have to fear thousands of virus on a gaming console too ? ;)
...
I can't wait
Irrelevant news and morons using moderation to mod down what they disagree on. 2018 resolution: so long.
would be cool. If the OS is on a chip it can not be affected bei 3rd-party software and their drivers or virii or worms. Just turn it on and it runs forever. MS Office lite and some email and web browser should be enough for 90% of those who call me regulary "Help me, my computer is not working anymore!". If something goes wrong, just press the reset button and don't call me.
#ifdef SLASHDOT
:)
OPINION(wo1verin3) == TROLL;
#endif
Apparently
This is the first ever gaming console that can become infected with windows viruses and spyware. Now not only will my web browser not work properly, but I can't play GTA either! Hooray Microsoft!
Microsoft does this over and over again. They see a market between small, efficient single-purpose or dedicated task technology (think PalmPilot, for a moment) and the larger, full-function device it is meant to complement (think laptop PC), and then build a device priced out of reach of the lower market, but not as useful as the upper.
They've done ok with PocketPC overall, but those first years are rough. They may eventually find a market space for this hybrid console/PC, also, but the first ones can flounder all they want. They have billions to spend, and years to fiddle with the details.
so they can fail... Xbox is already a sinking ship, with mediocre sales (pathetic in Japan)losing money like a sinking ship... This way, their new system will be a guaranteed failure, and hopefully M$ will realize that you can't just buy your way out to the top in the console market, and leave... I'd love to see Nintendo be #1 again, seems like they're the only company who knows what it's like to create imaginative and fun games anymore...
Would you be willing to pay $600 for a console with all of the capabilities of a standard OEM PC?
... No. If you want the capabilities of a standard OEM PC you might as well buy a standard OEM PC. A basic PC doesn't cost much more than a game console anyway, and will be better for general computing tasks anyway. Besides, if I buy a game machine, I want to know that the money I spent on it is for a better gaming experience, not for burning MP3's, doing my taxes or browsing the Web. A game console that costs $600 had better be pretty damn fabulous at running game code, and to hell with emulating a regular PC.
In a word
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
The 3DO was $600 and we all know what happened to that.
Actually, to be more relevant, how about MS look at their own history on the FIRST Xbox. It didn't sell all that well until their price cut. So that should tell them right there not to release a console with a ridiculously high price tag.
We can build our own gaming PCs for about $500us.
It's just another failing attempt by the Microsoft machine to try to merge TV and PC technologies and force it on us.
WebTV? UltimateTV? Both losers backed my MS.
Great, so instead of making a winning platform better, lets gut it, throw in some cheap OEM options, make it only compatable with high end video, revamp the EULA so only one person can watch television at a time and any more then that and you'll have to pay extra and then have the brass one's to think they can get another few hundred for it?!
If the American public goes for that then we're more stupid then I thought and we deserve every bit of MS that they can shove down our throat.
Thsi product would violate everything that modern marketing principles teach about market segmentation. An attempt to compete in the console segment with a $600 computer and an attempt to compete in the computer market with a $600 console. I am not interested in buying either a $600 computer or a $600 console. Especially not a console that will not work on my current TV and requires me to hook it up to a pc monitor (I don't have HDTV). They have created a new prdouct. Except that they refuse to define what it is. How can you sell me something if you don't have a category for it. Good luck on that one MS.
I tried for 5 years to come up with a clever sig...only to realize that I am not clever.
All seven of them?!
;)
Aspyr, one company, sells all these Mac games:
Return to Castle Wolfenstein(TM) - Mac
Shrek 2(TM): The Game - Mac
Sid Meier's Alien Crossfire(TM) - Mac
SimCity(TM) 4 - Mac
SimCity(TM) 4 Rush Hour - Mac
Space Colony(TM) - Mac
Spider-Man(TM) - Mac
SpyHunter® - Mac
Star Trek(TM): Voyager® Elite Force(TM) II - Mac
The Lord of the Rings(TM); The Return of the King(TM) - Mac
The Sims(TM) - Mac
The Sims(TM) Hot Date - Mac
The Sims(TM) House Party - Mac
The Sims(TM) Livin' Large Combo - Mac
The Sims(TM) Makin' Magic - Mac
The Sims(TM) Superstar - Mac
The Sims(TM) Unleashed - Mac
The Sims(TM) Vacation - Mac
Tiger Woods PGA® Tour 2003 - Mac
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon(TM): Desert Siege(TM) - Mac
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six® 3: Raven Shield® - Mac
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell® - Mac
Tomb Raider® Chronicles - Mac
Tomb Raider®: The Last Revelation - Mac
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater(TM) 2 - Mac
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater(TM)3 - Mac
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater® 4 - Mac
Wakeboarding Unleashed(TM) Featuring Shaun Murray - Mac
X2 Wolverine's(TM) Revenge - Mac
Zoo Tycoon(TM) - Mac
Zoo Tycoon(TM): Marine Mania(TM) Expansion Pack - Mac
I think there's more than seven
"For an example, look at IBM's AS/400 line, I forget what the hell they're called now
eServer iSeries."
eServer iSeries?
Do they have the electronic internet-enhanced input/output bus?
Because any machine without e-i-e-i/o just isn't going to make the cut at old macdonalds farm.
I think Micro$oft is using this as a why of stopping linux hacks on the xbox. If this runs windows, then it probably needs windows to run the games on it. If you wipe it out and put linux on it, no more running console games. Now you just have an expensive linux box when you could buy a emachine for $200 and get the same results.
---
Lousy rotten karmic retribution.
The Good Thing about gaming on a console is the relative lack of necessity for upgrading or modding to play the newest games (with some peripheral exceptions).
The Good Thing about gaming on a PC is the relatively broad standards and mod-ability which allows the PC gamer to customize a rig to their specific needs and upgrade as needed or wanted.
A PC gamer will not want a closed-box system even if it does boot Windows. A console gamer will not need the capabilities of a PC or want to pay $600 for a system.
I cannot see who this would appeal to. If MS wants to capture more of the PC gamer market, and this configuration is possible, perhaps they should create an Xbox daughterboard card for PCs, or an emulator.
It seems to me that Next is a registered trademark of one of their competitors.
My other sig is extremely clever...
First there was the Coleco ADAM, then there was the Amiga CD32. Both were "consoles" that could be rather easily turned into "computers." The concept is not new, nor has it ever been successful. That doens't mean it won't be this time, but history is not in Microsoft's favor on this one.
you mean like the anticopying software that every PC game ships with nowadays?
PC gamers already have crippling DRM. Console gamers have DRM to be sure, but it isn't slowing the game down, it isn't causing compatibility problems, and it has the side benefit of ensuring that no-one's cheating in LAN games. That's an acceptable tradeoff for an entertainment machine.
I've still got my non-DRM'd PCs anyway.
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
I think a better option than making a console that can do PC stuff, make the add in board to put the Console stuff into the pc. An expansion board, and maybe a cd/dvd/whatever drive if they wanted to make it more proprietary. That way, you can use all the pc functionality, but you also get the benefit of having the console.
This would benefit the console companies, in that it wouldn't take very much to create this board, yet it would give them a broader market. Cause I know a bunch of people who would never buy a console. But they would by a "console expansion" for their pc.
Maybe they'll make a junk mail game. Nothing feels better then pressing right trigger to destroy an e-mail.
...Is that the Xbox 2/Next will be based around *3* 64bit powerpc chips. You're not going to be able to buy these parts yourself for that kind of money.
Another thing to keep in mind, MS owns VirtualPC now, so it's very possible the vpc technology will be used to allow the xbox 2/next to run a stock windows distro, as well as possibly providing the backwards compatability for the original xbox games.
to help Microsoft with their market research for free?
Why in the world would the U.S. government allow a company with 90% market share in PC operating systems start selling pre-built PCs?
This has strongarm market-opening written all over it. Bet on the PC portion having the XBox's style of boot hardware -- you can't put a new OS on it without replacing a chip, and the chip also has DRM on it (with which Windows is signed), so it's illegal to replace the chip as you'd be disabling copyright protections.
Imagine General Electric (the parent company of the U.S. media giant NBC) selling televisions which only display the NBC, CNBC, MSNBC etc. stations in its stable. Imagine Turner Cable dropping all stations which compete too closely with Turner Broadcasting's stations. If you can't condone these practices, how could you condone MS putting out a Windows-only PC (with Windows sold internally to itself at little or no cost to subsidize hardware costs)?
Hopefully Dell, HP, IBM, eMachines, Alienware, Sony, Winbook, and the attorneys general for several states will raise all kinds of hell about this.
I realize the title is somewhat redundant and obvious, but I can't think of a better one. My point here is this: the XBox is essentially an evil MS ploy to get money with no technical justification.... ok THAT's not new either. But the details are instructive.
The XBox is essentially a PC. Unlike PS2, which has original hardware, the XBox is a simplified PC. Besides the funky controllers, and the DRM, why can't a PC play XBox games? The differences in the hardware are minimal. Any reasonably modern PC will posess all the hardware horsepower needed to drive those games. So what's the deal? How hard can it be to create a shell that will run XBox games on the PC, and get rid of needing to buy the damn thing alltogether?
What this "next-gen" nonsense (and how embarassing is the name XBox Next? It almost sounds like NeXT. I think I smell a lawsuit in the making....) amounts to is just a way to get more money without any justification. There will be no reason to actually have the box save for the few clumsy and inconvenient protections built into the XBox os that allows it to process the games.
The Xbox 2 specs have already been leaked. 3 G5 chips, no hard drive, etc. It's not even backwards compatible with the Xbox. That's not to say it won't have some sort of media center features. But it ain't a PC in console clothes like the Xbox is.
As someone lucky enough to have "played" with a modded xbox, the possibilities of the power of xbox next modded make me tingly. The media player (http://www.xboxmediacenter.com) is the best I've seen on any OS by any manufacturer! Playing movies, MP3s, pictures of my kid on my big HDTV is much cooler than my 17 " monitor. So, if one is willing to dabble in the black arts of modding, this possible XBOX next loooks "very interesting"
i broke this to the cnn reporter, but he didn't give me credit, so here's the slides:
http://www.geeknik.net/?journal,336
If thy are gona go the pc way then why not just make expansion card that acts as the needed hardware, a DRM tool, a dongl, game card for standard xbox controls, and a AV out for the tv if desired. Package this with software that use the card based hardware to render the game and you have a new product.
my $0.02
7 of those are expansion packs for The Sims, not independant games
That's what I get for actually answering the question.
Silly me.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
Xbox next has some impressive power under the hood, according to a supposedly leaked block diagram the system will have 3 dual-core G5-alike CPUs, all running at 3Ghz. Just think, 6 full-fledged threads running at 3Ghz, thats nothing to scoff at, not to mention each core has an altivec unit as well. The bandwidth to ram is enourmous as well, something like 28 Gbps, granted the ram may be a little sparse (reportedly 256-512MB) but I'm sure a more powerful general-purpose Xbox Next would support more.
:)
And because it must be said(and maybe already has...):
Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these
I would buy one. You see, 600 dollars is a savings. A PC that is good for gaming would easily run 1000+... might as well get Xbox Next.
Also, most likely the next Xbox, or Xbox 2 will NOT be priced that high... or The Revolution from Nintendo and Sony's PS3 will OWN it in sales.