Beastie Boys Respond to DRM Claims

An anonymous reader notes that the Beastie Boys have responded to claims that their new album is DRM-crippled; their response is that the US and UK versions aren't crippled, and the DRM software is only installed in RAM, not on disk. See our previous story for background.

Comments

Cognitive Dissonance?

[Defiler]

A) No software is permanently installed on your hard disk.
B) Check install.log on your hard disk for details.
Haha.
*weep*

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[pimpin apollo]

Yeah exactly, this is utterly insane. It's not about stopping internet 'piracy', it's pretty clear that ripping the disc is feasible; it's about making it a pain to put into itunes or whatever... so then you buy it off itunes instead of messing with it. It's like rebuying all of your records on CD. The record industry didn't forget that this is the only reason they stayed afloat in the 90s. Perhaps that's an indication that there's a bloated supply side?

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think they're referring to the system wide install .log, that it will be unchanged from before and after the CD is played on a computer. Not an install.log placed their by the copy protection software.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[MoonBuggy]

"The copy protection system used for all EMI/Capitol releases including "To the 5 Boroughs" is Macrovision's CDS-200, which sets up an audio player into the users RAM" seems to contradict the statement that "CDS-200 does not install software applications of ANY KIND on a user's PC. All the copy protection in CDS-200 is hardware based, meaning that it is dependent on the physical properties and the format of the CD. None of the copy protection in CDS-200 requires software applications to be loaded onto a computer."

If none of the copy protection requires software applications to be loaded, why does the very same article say that it sets up an audio player in RAM?

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[91degrees]

So, check the install.log. Does it exist? If not then nothing was installed.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[ringbarer]

You've gotta FIGHT!
For your RIGHT!
To Ppprrrroooo-fit!

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[ASkGNet]

Imagine, what if the said player is inadvertedly (perhaps via user opening a memory hog program, such as one of Adobe's fine products) swapped to hard drive of the aforementioned user. Would that qualify as hard drive installation, since it obviously does modify data on the user's hard drive

And as a recent article showed, data in swap can remain there for many years, unoverwritten.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[nzkbuk]

Because their version of loaded doesn't match everyone else's version of loaded.

They think loaded = installed
everyone else thinks loaded = run

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Anonymous Coward]

They think loaded = installed
everyone else thinks loaded = run
I think loaded = drunk, stoned

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[BroncoInCalifornia]

If none of the copy protection requires software applications to be loaded, why does the very same article say that it sets up an audio player in RAM?

"We installed DRM software into RAM but we did not install it onto the computer"

"I smoked pot, but I did not inhale."

"I did not have sex with that woman."

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[krel]

Yes, this is RIAA stupidity, but it has nothing to do with making people buy their music again if they want to play it on their computers. The RIAA doesn't recognize that there are people who legitimately want to play music on their computers, and they're feebly trying everything they comprehend to stop real piracy.
Online music is mere peanuts to the record industry; the suits want to stop piracy, even if they don't understand how to.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[markb]

When they say the copy protection doesn't require any software to be installed, they mean that without any software, the copy protection prevents the audio from being plays. The software provides a loophole for playing the music on your computer.

In other words, the software that is loaded from the CD allows the music to be played, rather than preventing the music from being copied (as was previously alleged, I guess).

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[karmatic]

The disk uses 2 different TOCs (similar to multi-session). Computers (in general) load the second one, and the audio players load the first. The second one contains encrypted tracks, and a player to play them. It makes some ripping tools have a harder time.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[pimpin apollo]

They do recognize that people want to play music on their computers. That's why they build players into these cds, which is the point of this entire topic. The recognize that where there's demand there's a market but the market is unforunately (for them) blocked by that pesky Constitution. The betamax case created legitmacy for time/shape shifting and now the goal is to roll back what amounts to competition.

I think the end goal is to create a new business model around pay-per-play. This is how they already view their 'property'. The fact that it's physically contained on DVDs and CDs is a messy necessity. But as we become more intellectually divorced from that view of property we start to see it as their intellectual property and not our physical property. Blocking the main competition through the DMCA DRM combo is hand in hand with this strategy.

don't kid yourself into thinking the riaa just doesn't get it... what's scarier than them not getting it is that they do get it and they're using that against us

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Graff]

it's about making it a pain to put into itunes or whatever... so then you buy it off itunes instead of messing with it. It's like rebuying all of your records on CD.

Uh, if you are buying the album and you're going to rip it to iTunes why not just buy it from the iTunes Music Store in the first place? Then you only need to buy it once.

The real reason they are doing this is not to encourage you to buy your music multiple times or in a certain place. They are doing this to make it a pain for casual users to copy and distribute the songs. Sure they won't stop the hard-core techs from ripping the songs but they probably figure that if they stop the majority of people from being able to trade music then that's good enough. One problem with that notion is that it only takes 1 tech person to rip an album, the rest of humanity can leech off of the tech's efforts and download like crazy.

It's not enough to make it difficult to rip music and trade it. You either need to make it impossible to do or forget about stopping it. To me it makes much more sense to just make it insanely easy to get cheap, legal music. That way the free music isn't so much easier of an option than the bought music.

People will buy their music as long as the price is right and the barrier to obtaining the music is simple enough. Just look at the success of the iTunes Music Store. Keep lowering the prices of the songs there and continue to make buying simple and the music purchases will continue to grow.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[elemental23]

"I did not have sex with that woman."

I think that goes without saying if you're posting to Slashdot.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, if you are buying the album and you're going to rip it to iTunes why not just buy it from the iTunes Music Store in the first place? Then you only need to buy it once.

Because he wants the CD contents and all, and have the option of listening to it on a lower resolution computer based format.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[usrusr]

"Uh, if you are buying the album and you're going to rip it to iTunes why not just buy it from the iTunes Music Store in the first place?"

erm, maybe because i trust my cd shelf a little bit more than i trust my computer? i trust my computer a lot, but since any event that would fukc up my cd shelf would kill my computer as well, and the opposite is not true, i know where my preferences are.

and then comes all the hassle in case you some day feel like you want some "alternative-ipod" even if it is just itms taking all your legitimately bought songs hostage to make you buy a possibly over-priced future generation ipod. just look at what sony does with their mem-stick. in case of a cd that is compatible with a cd player i know at least that i can get proper copies with all the hassle, getting past a drm solution either involves software more illegal than an spdif cable (or good converters..) or recoding, or both.

(on the ceap&legal point, i certainly agree with you. but honestly, i don't see that anywhere, do you?)

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[OgGreeb]

Unless the WMA compressed files are lossless, the the experience you get playing a UK disk on your computer is not the same as a non-DRM'd disk. There should be some notice on the disk that playing this disk in a computer (as many of us would do anyway), apart from a standalone disk player, leads to a "less calories" version of the music *unless* you take pains to specifically select the unencrypted tracks.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[sevinkey]

Many of the major labels don't exactly get it. Working for a DRM company, it has been very interesting to see exactly how distant these folks are from reality. They are uninformed of exactly what the people want, and that people are willing to pay a fair price for a fair product. They tend to base all of their decisions off the buying habits of teenagers (probably not THAT bad of an idea) and have somewhat of a grasp on the technology that was available for protecting content in the late 90's.

I don't see them selling pay-per-play. Subscription services, maybe and probably, but I think the free-market's gonna kill the pay-per-play idea.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Myopic]

swapped to hard drive of the aforementioned user

wasn't the opposite of that argument the one which was used to extend licensing to software (as opposed to selling)? I mean, the fact that we license software instead of purchasing it was a legal distinction originally based on the fact that a lawyer convinced a judge that a user "copies" the software from disk to memory when the software is run. That's my recollection anyway.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[The Iconoclast]

"Iraq has Weapons of Mass Destruction."

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Pfhor]

"This is the Guy who Tried to Kill My Dad"

*boink*

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[flyneye]

in this case its
"I'll only stick the head in"

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[dgatwood]

Which probably describes the state of the person who wrote the Beastie Boys' reply, but I digress....

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Lehk228]

got Nero Multimounter?

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Graff]

I bought it from the iTunes store, only to find that I can't burn it to CD to listen to it anywhere else, so it's stuck in iTunes or my iPod. Now while I can see the point here, I was under the impression that you could burn a CD x times using iTunes. Not true.

As another poster has said, you can certainly burn iTMS tracks to CD. In fact you can burn them to CD both as the original data files and as the AIFF format found on regular music CDs. You can burn a playlist 7 times after which you can just create a new playlist and burn 7 more times, repeat as you like.

ALL songs downloaded from iTMS have the exact same license. There is none of this crap that some music distrubutors have where song x has these limitations and song y has different limitations.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[72beetle]

I've got a lot more money than most teenagers.

Yes, but there's a lot more teenagers than you - now that your palm crystal has turned red or whatever, you're only a consumer for a finite amount of time... but there's an endless supply of teenagers coming up, so the demographic remains fixed. It's safer for them that way.

-72

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Graff]

Because he wants the CD contents and all, and have the option of listening to it on a lower resolution computer based format.

The files in the iTMS were ripped from the masters using professional gear and software. This fact, along with the AAC encoding, makes it so that a 128 kbit AAC encoded music file from iTMS is much higher quality than a 128 kbit MP3 file ripped from a CD.

In fact, the iTMS music files sound damn close in quality to what you are getting on CD. Sure it may sound a little different than the song found on a CD but that doesn't mean it lost quality. Both the CD-audio and the AAC-audio introduce some artifacts simply due to the nature of digital formats and encoding.

As for other content, such as album covers and art, you get the artwork as part of your download from iTMS. If you look in iTunes there is an option to view the artwork for a song or for an album.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Graff]

i trust my cd shelf a little bit more than i trust my computer? ...
then comes all the hassle in case you some day feel like you want some "alternative-ipod"

iTunes has a way to archive your music fairly easily. Create a playlist with the music you want to archive and burn a data CD or DVD with it. It will burn all of your files to a CD or DVD as AAC files which you can then put in a safebox somewhere.

As for the alternative music players you can easily convert the iTunes AAC files to some other format by burning a music CD and re-ripping to the format you want or by using one of the open source converters that have popped up. It's fairly simple and then your music is in whatever format you need.

Sure, its a bit of a hassle as you mentioned but then again it's cheaper than buying both a CD and the iTunes songs as the parent poster was talking about.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[DarkZero]

The files in the iTMS were ripped from the masters using professional gear and software. This fact, along with the AAC encoding, makes it so that a 128 kbit AAC encoded music file from iTMS is much higher quality than a 128 kbit MP3 file ripped from a CD.

Errr... who would rip a CD to a 128kbps MP3 file, though? You only do that if you want to transfer it over the web and you have a slow connection. Anyone using them purely for home use, or anyone that has a cable connection, would rip them at 320kbps. That's like saying that you prefer apples to oranges because rotten oranges don't taste as good as fresh apples.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Basehart]

"us"

Speak for yourself dude!

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[violent.ed]

*APPLAUD* This has got the be the best of the comments i have ever read from the slashdot crowd, and for that sir i applaud you. i had mod points yesterday & never used them then they timed out.. so i give my own personal mods of +10 INTELLIGENT. and 2 hatchets wayy up!

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Ilgaz]

Tell me how do I buy from iTunes music store as a guy from Istanbul?

I guess you are american. CIA unearthed an amazing conspiracy, http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

See? There are indeed other countries than USA on planet. :)

I am already mad to RIAA not Apple since they don't allow a worldwide shop. Its amazing...

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[mcpkaaos]

"Iraq sponsored al Qaeda"

"Afghanistan sponsored al Qaeda"

"The Saudi royals are our friends"

"We are already at peak oil production"

"Bush can almost always spell his own name on the first try"

This *is* a fun game! :)

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[DownTownMT]

"she said she was 18!"

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Sandman1971]

That's all fine and dandy if you don't mind having to buy/.burn it again in a few years...

Current burnt CDs have a shelflife of about 2-3 years (I'va had some go after a year). A pressed CD lasts 20+ years (I have 18 yr old pressed CDs that still play flawlessly). SO the burning scenario just doesn't cut it.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

"This fact, along with the AAC encoding, makes it so that a 128 kbit AAC encoded music file from iTMS is much higher quality than a 128 kbit MP3 file ripped from a CD."

Yes, but probably not as good as the ~700kbps FLAC file I ripped with cdparanoia.

Or the 24/96 5.1 channel uncompressed DVD-audio mix.

Not that 128kbps AAC is bad, mind you, but the CD is simply easier, primarily because I can rip to FLAC and then re-encode to any format of my choosing (usually Vorbis for my PDA; I have a program that lets you choose your tracks and then adjusts the quality setting to fit the space).

With the iTunes files, you have to use an iPod, waste a lot of space using FLAC (some MP3 players do handle FLAC), or use a CD player to listen to your music. When you buy the CD (I always buy used, by the way - from the $3 bin at the thrift shop), you can use MP3 or Vorbis or WMA and put it on the device of your choice (in my case, a Pocket PC Phone with a 512M SD card).

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[cehardin]

Speak for yourself!

Oh, wait... damn.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Aphrika]

Okay, I see what your saying - and agree with you (read on), but from first iTMS(UK) experience with The BB album, I was beginning to wonder...

Initially when I bought it, I created a play list and could not burn it at all. I kept receiving the error message The license for this track does not allow burning to CD. You can interpret that however you see fit, but it doesn't give you much leaway from coming to the conclusion that DRM in iTunes is editable on a per track basis does it?

That said, after being modded as Troll for posting my own experiences, and reading your replies, I thought I'd give it a go again and see if I can finally get it to burn correctly. An uninstall and reinstall of iTunes sorted the problem out after reimporting my library.

Anyhows, thanks for a constructive reply and setting me straight on a few iTunes issues. :o)

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[pommiekiwifruit]

"Read My Lips... No New Taxes!"

"Now is not the time for sound-bites. I can feel the hand of history on my shoulder".

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[mcpkaaos]

Feh, damn my awful cut and paste skills.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[kasperd]

as the AIFF format found on regular music CDs.

CDDA does not use AIFF format. AIFF is an IFF format. I found a few pages with more information about IFF and AIFF. CDDA is different, first of all it is not a file format, it specify the format of the media, and you don't have a file header like AIFF. But both formats are similar in that except from the metadata, they contain just raw uncompressed samples. But you can say that about a lot of formats. There does exist systems, where the driver can convert from CDDA to AIFF as you read the disk (IIRC IRIX does that), of course the conversion is trivial. It basically amounts to just replacing the header.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[jglazer75]

"Uh, if you are buying the album and you're going to rip it to iTunes why not just buy it from the iTunes Music Store in the first place? Then you only need to buy it once."

Why? Because maybe I don't want a file that has the iTunes (or Napster or MusicMatch or whatever) restrictions on it. I just want a 256kbps MP3 file to go along with the other 50GB of 256kbps MP3 files that I have on my harddrive.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Graff]

"This fact, along with the AAC encoding, makes it so that a 128 kbit AAC encoded music file from iTMS is much higher quality than a 128 kbit MP3 file ripped from a CD."

Yes, but probably not as good as the ~700kbps FLAC file I ripped with cdparanoia.

Or the 24/96 5.1 channel uncompressed DVD-audio mix.

What I am trying to say is that the AAC files you get from iTMS are pretty much equivalent to the CD-quality in the first place. Yes, there are some artifacts to the AAC files but there are also artifacts to the CD audio. Neither of them sound exactly like the studio masters, that's a side-effect of the process of translating from one format to another.

Look at it like this:
studio master->CD->~700kbps FLAC
studio master->CD->AAC
studio master->iTMS AAC

The FLAC file is a 3rd generation recording (which is still extremely close to the 2nd generation because of the FLAC format). The iTMS AAC file is a 2nd generation recording. The AAC file ripped from CD is a 3nd generation recording. This doesn't mean that the AAC file is automatically better quality than the FLAC but it does mean that the iTMS AAC certainly is much better than the AAC ripped from a CD. The iTMS AAC is close in quality to the FLAC due to this and the fact that the AAC encoding is well-tuned to the human ear. Certainly I, and many other people, can't notice the differences and I really have tried to listen for them.

The iTMS files simply sound good. They are convenient, relatively inexpensive, and there is a good selection of them. It seems like a perfect match to me.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[usrusr]

not to mention the quality joy of reencoded music...

if i buy once, i want a proper cd. even if the first thing i do is drop it into eac (or plug in spdif)

thinking of this, one has to wonder when the riaa members start filling their cds with material that already went through some obscure psychoacoustic based lossy compression/decompression cycle just to handicap encodings of the raw cd with the "reencoding stigma"... fun is, when this happens they will lose the goodwill of the last customer, while pirate hobbyists will be empowered with the means to copy without coding down, by moore's law.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[maximilln]

I think the end goal is to create a new business model around pay-per-play
Absolutely. They've realized that all of us entering our 30s aren't going to buy many new CDs and they're still trying to milk us for every last drop they can get. We were the ones that loaded up on import singles from England at $25/pop over the last ten years. The new generation of teenagers doesn't care about remixes because they already have a million of them (kindly supplied by us). We were the generation that put the money into the remix movement. What thanks do we get for it? None. Only the proposition to BOHICA.

don't kid yourself into thinking the riaa just doesn't get it... what's scarier than them not getting it is that they do get it and they're using that against us
I've been saying this for years. Not just about the RIAA, but about any powerful political entity from individual senators up to entire governing bodies. I usually get shouted down for being a paranoid hippie freak.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Graff]

Current burnt CDs have a shelflife of about 2-3 years (I'va had some go after a year). A pressed CD lasts 20+ years (I have 18 yr old pressed CDs that still play flawlessly). SO the burning scenario just doesn't cut it.

First off, I've never had a burned CD go on me in a year. Certainly not one that was put in a dark, protected place. I've had some burned CDs from 5 years or so ago that still work fine when I need to retrieve something from them. I have read about estimates of protected CD-R shelf life being anywhere from 10 years to 100 years. That's a wide range so I'd stick with the low end of it.

Secondly, they do sell archival quality CD-Rs that have a much longer shelf life than the ordinary CD-Rs that are more common. Here are some archival quality CD-R that are estimated to have a 100-year shelf life or more. Prices range from $1.35 to $1.70 per CD, not bad for the shelf life and the fact that you would be storing around 700 minutes of music per disk if you keep the music as AAC files.

Here is a good article on archiving your music: Archiving to CDR: some considerations

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[krel]

They don't build players in to these CDs, they hire people to build them. They hire consultants who recommend contractors who get a lot of money thrown at them to develop some idea to modify the CD to prevent its pirating. In reality, there is no good way to stop piracy, but business types don't understand technology, and especially not business types who work in a non-technological industry.
These RIAA businessmen don't listen to music on their computers, and they're too rich to empathize with ordinary people, so they go with statistics that indicate that everyone still listens to music on their CD players, and that a fair amount also steal music on their computers -- there are no statistics that say people want to legally listen to music on their computers.
They're not concerned with selling music for computers, there's no money in that, they're concerned solely with stopping piracy.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Lord Ender]

What's this? The Beastie Boys CD secretly installs software on people's computers? Listen, all y'all, it's a sabotage!

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[CrosbieFitch]

Good points parent.

However, whilst the RIAA may wish to move to an IP based world where users never actually get their grubby hands on music, but are merely licensed to have the privilege of listening to it...

There will be another world, similar to one that slashdotters know so well, i.e. the 'open source' equivalent of music. This will be music that explicitly permits people to copy it, remix it, and sell it with added value (packaging, liner notes, etc.).

We're heading for polarisation:
1) Heavily locked down IP/music with draconian enforcement.
2) Free music.

On the one hand the wealthy plebs will simply pay their subscriptions and have music on demand, enjoying plenty of convenience, and on the other, the music geeks will file share the free music until the cows come home.

The question is, which market will musicians go to in order to build up their audience? Perhaps some will make their initial music free in order to virally market themselves, but once their audience is at a critical mass they'll switch over to iTunes et al...?

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[tombeard]

You misspelled "Know"

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Secret Agent X23]

On the one hand the wealthy plebs will simply pay their subscriptions and have music on demand, enjoying plenty of convenience, and on the other, the music geeks will file share the free music until the cows come home.

Screw subscriptions. I grew up buying it once, then playing it with impunity. I'm not about to change.

Of course, I've bought very few CDs in the last few years, anyway. At least 90 percent of the music I've collected in that time has been trading and downloading shows by jam bands. If I never accumulated any more music at all, I'd still have enough stockpiled to last the rest of my life.

The question is, which market will musicians go to in order to build up their audience? Perhaps some will make their initial music free in order to virally market themselves, but once their audience is at a critical mass they'll switch over to iTunes et al...?

Very possible. I've seen a lot of discussions about bands offering free music over the net to build up a following, so therefore the big-name bands should do it, too, to promote themselves.

But yes, I wonder... are these local bands giving away music only because they don't see an alternative that looks better? If they had an opportunity to sign with a major label and get some big-time promotion, would that be an alternative that looks better?

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Secret Agent X23]

As for other content, such as album covers and art, you get the artwork as part of your download from iTMS. If you look in iTunes there is an option to view the artwork for a song or for an album.

Ah, yes, but downloaded artwork doesn't get you the cool Exile on Main Street Postcards or the Jefferson Airplane cigar box or the Dark Side of the Moon stickers or the Led Zep 3 wheel or the Queen bicycle race poster. It doesn't get you the gatefold album cover, oh-so-useful for cleaning... uh... maybe I'd better shut up now.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[bechthros]

"This fact, along with the AAC encoding, makes it so that a 128 kbit AAC encoded music file from iTMS is much higher quality than a 128 kbit MP3 file ripped from a CD."

That is compeletely irrelevant. The single overriding consideration in music, digital or analog, is not quality (which is subjective), but FIDELITY. Which is to say, an objective, scientific measurement of how close the copy is to the original. Fidelity is the only thing recording engineers are worried about, and we are worried about it at every stage of the game. When the singer gets recorded by a microphone onto tape, when the multitrack tape gets mixed to a 1/2" master, when the 1/2" master gets mastered and transferred to ADAT, and when the digital master gets duplicated at a factory, ALL we're worried about *fidelity*, not quality. We don't care if the singer is Johnny Rotten as long as the recording sounds exactly like the sound in the room when he was singing. And sure, AAC has more fidelity than MP3.

But *it's not lossless*. Is it? It's not the same thing as a CD, period. PERIOD. That's like saying FM is much higher quality than AM. True, but FM isn't true fidelity. Just like MP3, FM radio broadcasts are compressed - lossily.

"Sure it may sound a little different than the song found on a CD but that doesn't mean it lost quality."

Having a degree in audio engineering, I feel qualified to tell you that that's just *wrong*. Digital music is stored as bits. Each individual bit corresponds to fidelity in music. When those bits change, the music changes, period. The only way to preserve the quality of original digital music is to not change it. Encoding into a lossy codec changes it, resulting in a loss of data (and therefore a loss in fidelity)in order to fit down a 56K modem line. AAC may well be a superior codec to MP3 but *it's still lossy compression*. PERIOD.

"Both the CD-audio and the AAC-audio introduce some artifacts simply due to the nature of digital formats and encoding."

But the 44.1 kHz 16 bit PCM codec has been widely accepted as the consumer equivalent of lossless by the community. Sure, if you want to get absurdly technical, a CD isn't an *exact* replica of the master tape. But it's a hell of a lot closer than any MP3 or AAC ever will be, and it's good enough for the ears of 99.9% of all the people listening. Face it, lossy compression is the digital equivalent of cassette taping - which was legalized by an act of Congress.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[bechthros]

"As for the alternative music players you can easily convert the iTunes AAC files to some other format by burning a music CD and re-ripping to the format you want or by using one of the open source converters that have popped up. It's fairly simple and then your music is in whatever format you need."

Oh my fucking God. Are you serious?!

You're seriously considering downloading a lossily compressed file, making a PCM 16/44.1 format copy of the lossily compressed file, then lossily encoding it AGAIN?!

Have you ever had a cassette deck and made a copy of a copy of a copy? How did that sound? Do you think that your computer is, like, magical or something, that the laws of mathematics don't apply?

Do you have any idea what kind of compression artifacts will result? Do you even have any idea what lossy compression *is*? Do you know how artifacts are generated? Do you know what "perceptual encoding" is? Do you know that once you've lossily compressed something, it can never be de-compressed back to the original? Have you ever heard the effect of multiple iterations of lossy compression, the best efforts of these kind folks notwithstanding?

Cuz it's damn ugly.

research before posting, especially if yer gonna throw around terms like "artifacts" like you have any clue what you're taking about.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Sandman1971]

First off, I've never had a burned CD go on me in a year. Certainly not one that was put in a dark, protected place. I've had some burned CDs from 5 years or so ago that still work fine when I need to retrieve something from them. I have read about estimates of protected CD-R shelf life being anywhere from 10 years to 100 years. That's a wide range so I'd stick with the low end of it.

Oh, I have CDRs from 6-7 years ago that still work. The difference is the thickness of the material. CDRs produced in the last 3-4 years are superthin. Even the 'quality' ones you can see through. This was not true of CDRs made 4-5+ years ago. The metal inside was much thicker. Price of CDRs havent gone down strictly because of supply & demand. They're using less and cheaper materials than they did 5-6 years ago when a blank CDR cost you 4-5$, vs the 20 or so cents they cost now.

I've had a few audio CDs that I play in the car go after 6 months! Not from scratches or abuse, but the metal inside actually ripped and shredded, with the outside plastice 100% intact!

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Graff]

The single overriding consideration in music, digital or analog, is not quality (which is subjective), but FIDELITY.

Pardon my use of the wrong term. I'm a chemist, not a music engineer. :-)

Digital music is stored as bits. Each individual bit corresponds to fidelity in music. When those bits change, the music changes, period. The only way to preserve the quality of original digital music is to not change it.

Of course what I was referring to was fidelity, but not "mechanical" (for my lack of a better term) fidelity but rather perceptual fidelity. The various lossy codecs, by their very nature, do not attempt to maintain good "mechanical" fidelity but rather they attempt to maintain good perceptual fidelity when listened to by the human ear. AAC and MP3 do this by keeping the data which our ears hear best and throwing out the data that is largely unnoticed by our ears.

CD-audio also attempts to maintain good perceptual fidelity, but it does so by sampling the sound at intervals. In doing this it maintains the sound levels captured at those moments but it does not truly capture the sound. This is due to the Nyquist Theory and aliasing of the sampled waveforms.

But the 44.1 kHz 16 bit PCM codec has been widely accepted as the consumer equivalent of lossless by the community. Sure, if you want to get absurdly technical, a CD isn't an *exact* replica of the master tape.

Yes, CD-audio is deemed "good enough" but I remember when the CD was first introduced there were scores of musicians gnashing their teeth over the sampling rates and how so much of the sound is lost in the process of sampling the master tapes to create the CD-audio. The loss in that encoding step is substantial and really shouldn't be ignored. Yes, the loss is accepted in today's music world but it hasn't gone away.

Anyways, the whole point is that there is loss in every processing step of listening to your music. The songs downloaded from the iTunes music store (and probably other digital music stores, depending on how they encode their music) are most likely better quality than the songs you rip at home. This is especially true when you use a lossy format such as MP3, but you also shouldn't ignore the fact that the pressed CD you are ripping from does have measurable loss when compared to the studio masters. The AAC files also have loss but the AAC format is pretty good at minimizing the loss of perceptual fidelity.

One thing is for sure - it's almost certainly better to have an AAC made on professional-level equipment with professional-level software from a studio master than it would be to have an MP3 ripped from a CD at home!

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Technician]

If none of the copy protection requires software applications to be loaded, why does the very same article say that it sets up an audio player in RAM?


Reading the rest of the article indicates the player is there to play the compressed WMA files. Somehow, I don't think this is a redbook Philips standard Compact Disk. Always look for the Compact Disk logo to get redbook CD audio disc's instead of compressed data files.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Technician]

There should be some notice on the disk that playing this disk in a computer (as many of us would do anyway), apart from a standalone disk player, leads to a "less calories" version of the music

It's very descreet, but the absence of the Compact Disk logo is a clue the shiny plastic thing might be something other than a redbook standard Compact Disk worthy of Philips registered trademark.

Ask the clueless guy behind the counter about the absence of the logo. No logo = no sale. If everyone did that, DRM would go away as only real music would sell.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[eofpi]

There's one flaw in your logic tho. Studio masters aren't the same 16-bit 44.1KHz sampling rate as cds (and iTMS). They're typically closer to the 24/96 or sometimes even 24/192 of DVD-A. Hence, you still have a brief 2nd generation of downsampling the original master before they encode it to AAC. Also, since it's a lossy algorithm, it doesn't matter how many lossless generations precede it. It'll still be missing data that my FLACs (and CDs) have.

The artifacting you mention in CDs is (assuming no physical media damage) primarily the result of the aforementioned downsampling, which is present in the iTMS files too. Take a new CD off the shelf, take it home, open it, rip it immediately with cdparanoia (or another ripper that uses the paranoia libraries, such as CDex), and you'll have everything but media manufacturing defects mitigated. That won't be very different from a file downsampled and encoded directly from a digital master.

Now, does this mean anyone can hear these differences? I've never bothered to rip anything to AAC, and I haven't used iTMS yet (for a variety of reasons), so I can't comment directly on it, but, I can compare my own experiences with mp3 and ogg vorbis, and extrapolate based on other people's findings with AAC. With mp3, I can hear a difference between 192kbit (and at higher bitrates when poorly encoded) files and the source wav. It's difficult with Ogg Vorbis at quality 6 or higher. Based on someone else's opinion, it seems I'd be able to tell with iTMS too.

A lot of people don't have ears as sharp as mine, and a lot of people care less about how their music sounds. They're entitled to their opinions, and so am I. They may be willing to pay for lossily-encoded music. I'm not.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[notcreative]

I think the end goal is to create a new business model around pay-per-play.

Record companies aren't the only ones doing this. The desire to have a revenue stream that is relatively stable instead of a widely fluctuating sales income is causing many changes in traditional business models. For example, instead of buying a car you can get a lease which is basically a "car service agreement." Instead of buying a modem you can rent one from the cable company. I've seen video rental places in my area come out with programs that have a monthly fee for unlimited rentals. Cell phone plans want to lock you in for two years, while people would be outraged if they had to lock in for two years on a landline. TIVO requires a monthly fee (unless you hack it) after you purchase the box. My two cent guess is that as stockholder opinion becomes more important, smooth earnings growth gains priority.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Merk]

RIAA stupidity? Um, if you read the (20 line) release, you'd know that the US and UK versiond aren't crippled, it's only the one sold in the rest of Europe. Since RIAA stands for Recording Industry Association of America, I wouldn't blame them for this one. I'm sure it's different people in the same suits, but at least blame the people on the right continent.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[Scudsucker]

Gore would make a good postman.
Bush isn't my man,but still,I would rather he than the incredible cardboard man.

Oh, so you place no value at all on competency? Why would you rather take a guy who spent 3 decades partying it up over one who's spent the same amount of time serving the public?

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[bechthros]

"Yes, CD-audio is deemed "good enough" but I remember when the CD was first introduced there were scores of musicians gnashing their teeth over the sampling rates and how so much of the sound is lost in the process of sampling the master tapes to create the CD-audio. The loss in that encoding step is substantial and really shouldn't be ignored. Yes, the loss is accepted in today's music world but it hasn't gone away."

If, by "scores of musicians" you mean Steve Albini, this is true. A CD copy of a song isn't exactly the same as the master tape. But it is 99.9% accurate, something no lossy codec can claim. And, short of having a 1/2" reel-to-reel in your living room, you're not gonna get that quality from *anything*, not a CD, not an MP3, not a cassette, not an 8-track, and *definitely* not a record. The only medium I've found that can ever sound as *perceptually* good (due to things like even harmonic distortion) as 1/2" analog tape is 1/2" analog tape. That is, until you play it a few times, oxide starts rubbing off on the head and the capstan, your head azimuth gets one molecule out of alignment, and you start to notice that there's this annoying hiss behind everything... The only medium I've found that can sound as *mathematically* good, which is to say as *accurate*, as a real live performance being heard by human ears, both in music and in silence, is the Pulse Code Modulation codec. Granted, 44.1 kHz may seem a little low on the face of it, but when you think about it, if you had a CD that was recorded at 96 kHz, not only do you have twice as much data space being taken up by the same musical content, so you can only fit half as much music on the same size disc, but fully half of that data (the half over roughly 44kHz): a) cannot be reproduced by your CD player, which only outputs at 44.1 kHz (unless you've got a professional player); b) cannot be reproduced by your amplifier (whose frequency response tailors off sharply above 20kHz); c) cannot be heard by any human being over the age of 10.

"One thing is for sure - it's almost certainly better to have an AAC made on professional-level equipment with professional-level software from a studio master than it would be to have an MP3 ripped from a CD at home!"

With some caveats (like lack of DRM in said AAC), this is also true - all other things being equal. However... it would be even *better* to have a 16/44.1 PCM copy made on professional equipment.

My main point here is that lossy compression is the digital equivalent to analog tape recording (legalized by an act of Congress), and that the quality loss suffered when converting from PCM to MP3 (or any lossy codec of your choice) is roughly equivalent to the loss of quality suffered by dubbing vinyl or CD to cassette. And therefore trading MP3's shouldn't be any more illegal than trading cassettes is. (BTW, trading cassettes, in fact even recording them, was illegal until enough people complained to their Congressmen. They were illegal because of massive lobbying efforts by the RIAA, who were screaming like chicken little that cassettes would singlehandedly destroy the music industry. Sound familiar?)

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[mcpkaaos]

Haha sissies.

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[philbowman]

I had that problem - I found my CD Burning settings were set to try to write an MP3 CD, which you can't do for purchased music (nor can you convert them to MP3 files). If you change it (Edit/Preferences/Burning) to Audio CD you should be be able to create a disk OK.

You can then re-encode to MP3 if you like (I want this so I can listen to my music in the car or in the Gym, neither of which are ideal acoustic environments, so I'm not worried about the loss in quality).

Re:Cognitive Dissonance?

[flyneye]

gore is certainly not synonymous with competency.
remember the founder of the internet also had a lot to do with the PMRC and his wife running his business a lot like his runningmate.I have no respect for peckerhead,no.
I've spent the last 3 decades self actualizing too.Never trust a man who doesnt glean life.

So What?

[cr0y]

I don't care where its installed. If I am not notified when its installed. Its illegal. I think Symantec should start lumping this crap in with viruses and trojans.

Re:So What?

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

Symantec should lump its OWN crap with viruses and trojans. Bloatware that has a virus scan function.

Re:So What?

[Scoria]

If computer viruses are released by a well-funded, "reputable" organization, then they become recognized as benevolent anti-piracy software.

Interesting.

Re:So What?

[sqrt(2)]

Stick with NAV 2002 or less, you can still get the latest definitions without all the added crap.

Re:So What?

[mothz]

[quote]I think Symantec should start lumping this crap in with viruses and trojans.[/quote] Right on. What happens when the next Windows virus spreads through a hole in IE/Outlook/etc. and then copies itself to any burned CDs to auto-install when it is inserted? You can be completely caught up on your security patches and have your system go boom once you want to look at a CD of family pictures or something. Hell, what happens when the RIAA has these copy-protection programs automatically copy themselves to burned CDs?

Re:So What?

[91degrees]

It's not installed!

It just runs an application.

Re:So What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Its illegal.

Care to tell us which law they're breaking? Or perhaps you meant to say "I think it should be illegal."

Re:So What?

[That's Unpossible!]

I wasn't aware that this program installs itself, then replicates by copying itself into other programs.

Malware, maybe. Virus/Worm/Trojan? Nope.

Re:So What?

[WinterpegCanuck]

I wasn't aware that this program installs itself, then replicates by copying itself into other programs.

That is the definition of worms, but virii can still be virii without duplicating itself. SDBot is definatly a virus, but it does not replicate itself, it tricks folk into running it (well, the creator has to some how, simply emailing porn.scr should be simple enough)

Re:So What?

[Lord Kano]

Virus/Worm/Trojan? Nope.

Trojan, yes. All that is required for a trojan is that it masquerades as something else (music) and causes an undesired effect (enforcement of DRM).

This is definitely a trojan.

LK

Re:So What?

[Corydon76]

Virus/Worm/Trojan? Nope.

Actually, Trojan is exactly right. A Trojan Horse is a program which has an unintended payload and may or may not contain self-propagation code.

Any program which installs itself on your computer without your consent would, in fact, be a Trojan, by definition.

You are, of course, correct in that it is neither a virus nor a worm. People seem to forget that the reason there are three names is that these are three distinct classes of malware.

Re:So What?

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

I use McAfee7, after some bad times using NAV.

Re:So What?

[proj_2501]

sdbot is a trojan (it even says so in the description!). what you think is the definition of a worm is the definition of a virus. a worm does not attach itself to other executables.

Re:So What?

[drinkypoo]

and if the OP or anyone else is wondering, while a virus infects other executables, a worm infects other systems. They can do this via a security vulnerability in software, or they can do it through the organic type of back door. Er, that evokes the wrong image entirely, but I think you know what I was trying to say. Some worms spread through MSRPC, and some through holes in Outlook Express (though as the computers running these old versions are subjected to the process of defenestration, this method of distribution should be reduced.) but some of them have a secondary vector, which is hoping that someone will open the mail they are in, and then open them up and run them without knowing what the hell they are. Then they're both a trojan, and a worm. I don't know of any viruses that spread like worms, but there must be some out there.

Re:So What?

[whereiswaldo]

It's a Trojan.

What they need to do to come clean is pop up a dialog when you insert the CD that says "Click OK to install Digital Restriction Management software on your computer. This is required to play the CD on your computer. Click Cancel to quit without playing the CD"

Re:So What?

[cynic10508]

Malware, maybe. Virus/Worm/Trojan?

Actually, all three of those are also "malware". In general, you can call malware anything that runs without the users consent and/or knowledge. This could include adware, spyware, or DRM.

Re:So What?

[It'sYerMam]

I didn't need to install firefox, but hell, I can still run it without a CD in the drive - you have a good point.
A virus isn't installed in the conventional sense - that would require it to be put in the default places, register with the authorities, etc.

If they mean it doesn't get smacked on disk, well - they should've said it.
Mind, with stuff like "vaporware" they're obviously making the whole lot up, so it doesn't really matter!

Re:So What?

[mattyrobinson69]

computer missuse act 1990

thou shalt not play with other peoples computers unless they say you can

or something along those lines ;)

Re:So What?

[91degrees]

Why do you need to differentiate between the two in plural and not in the singular?

And even if virus was a latin singular noun, the plural would be "viri". Not "virii".

Re:So What?

[quantum bit]

This is required to play the CD on your computer.

Even that would be a lie. If it plays in a CD player, it will play fine in a CD-ROM drive in analog mode.

Re:So What?

[91degrees]

"Self replicating computer programs" it is then.

Re:So What?

[mcheu]

I think you've got your definitions mixed. A computer virus is called a virus BECAUSE of its similarities to biological virii. Specifically, that it is code that REPLICATES itself and attaches to or integrates itself with a host file or structure to do so. A WORM is a program that replicates itself by using various means, but does not require a host. It can exist and replicate itself independent of a host (the computer and the OS are considered the environment, rather than a host). A Trojan is a reference to the Trojan horse of the Troyan war. It's meant to trick users into believing it's something else, so that they'll run it.

Re:So What?

[10101001 10101001]

A CD contains music, so if there's a program in the OS or on the CD that pops up a dialog, the CD and related software is a trojan. The only way to *not* be a trojan is if the CD is clearly marked as not being a CD but instead being some DRM-infested music. Adding on any data tracks actually no long makes it an audio CD. It's a shame that EMI isn't being slammed for false advertising and running unauthorized code.

Re:So What?

[Lorean]

Would it still be a trojan if they only had an 'Okay' button?

Re:So What?

[Steve Cox]

....and hold down shift to bypass it completely!

Steve :)

Re:So What?

[Alsee]

Chuckle. Shouldn't that popup read:

Click OK to install Digital Restriction Management software on your computer.
Click Cancel to quit without playing the CD.
Hold down shift key to simply play the damn music while bypassing stupid Digital Restriction Management software.

-

Re:So What?

[Cryogenes]

How can a program notify you of anything before it even loads itself into RAM?

Nearly every game or application CD for Windows loads a program into RAM the moment you put it in the drive. I never heard of any company being sued for this.

Re:So What?

[Lehk228]

or digital mode if you switch sessions, as i already posted you can use nero multimounter to switch.

Re:So What?

[tokabola]

Macrovision is the same company that brought you C-Dilla, a "liscence manager". C-Dilla IS considered a virus by Norton (and several other AVs). It does several nasty things to Windows, such as deleteing ALL system restore points proir to installation. I had a run in with C-Dilla when I bought 3d Studio Max (Auto desk, makers of auto-cad and 3ds Max installs C-dilla when you try to install their software, and Max won't install without it.
After attempting to install Max, I found I could no longer access or burn CD's, or connect to the internet. Auto Desk tech support refused to help, referring me to Macrovision, who refused to return my support requests (after spending over ten hours to find a way to contact them, there website at the time offered no way to contact them. I had to resort to snail mail, which was ingnored.)
Fortunately, Pest Patrol's website had manual removal instructions for C-Dilla (IIRC over 50 files and registry entries had to be removed).

Max never did work, and I never did get a refund or even an apology.

No macrovision malware will ever get near my PC again. Neither will any Auto desk product. Looks like EMI CD's are on the sh%& list now, also. Too bad, I like the Beasties, but don't steal music so I'll never know if this album's as good as the others.

I could live with a band using DRM (I'm a musician and have some sympathy) but after reading the outright lies in their statement, I'll never buy another Beastie disc (or anything else EMI) again

Re:So What?

[kyle_b_gorman]

as i posted on a different article earlier this week, you're both wrong. virus is a 2nd declension latin neuter noun, and he was trying to use the latin plural, except he forgot that virus is neuter. look it up at Notre Damn Latin Dictionary if you don't believe me. the neuter ending takes an -a in the plural; hence, vira. this is one of those tricky latin nouns (i'm thinking it's probably a greek loan word) where the neuter starts with the 2nd declension masculine ending, but continues with the neuter endings). that said, don't use the latin plural. it's kind of lame.

Re:So What?

[d34thm0nk3y]

Well, possibly the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. There is a section on installing or running software without the owners permission, but like most laws you would have to prove some sort of data. Maybe if it crashed an expensive HD or something...

Re:So What?

[Tokerat]

Yea but if it loads and tells me I can click "Feck off" and not have my registry, my system restore points and all my DLLs and everythign else on MY COMPUTER fucked with.

This is illegal activity. If I gave the government a CD that would disable their computers if they ran it, I'd go to jail.

EMI should go to jail.

Re:So What?

[utexaspunk]

uhhh... it's called packaging...

Re:So What?

[Mycroft_VIII]

Whatever you do DO NOT upgrade to 8.0
It behaves like malware of all sorts. It loads up even when you tell it not to. If you shut it off it leaves the main task running in the background.
AND get this, it tries to connect to the net EVERY five minutes. If you delete it's entry in the task scheduler it re-install it on next boot. though I dunno why as it tries to connect even without the job being on the system, even when it's 'shut down'.
This connecting every five minutes isn't to bad on xp as it won't do anything if it finds your not currently online, but on the win9x series it pops up a connect dialog every five minutes, or worse just dials out. This has cost some who pay for all phone calls by the minute a lot of $$, in fact it dosen't hang up when it's done eigther. imagine you left home for work only to come home and find out your computer has been online for 8 hours and racked up a nice fat bill for you.
I bought the pro copy so I could install on both my machine and a relatives machine. Then it played it's little tricks and all but rendered the computer unusable. I had to uninstall it then go in and clean out the crap it left behind before the system was useable again.
It was causing one game to crash the system hard, even when 'turned off' by trying to phone home. When the dial up networking box poped up the game would lock, note alt-tab never caused so much as a hickup on the game, it would happily pause and wait till you got back to it.

Mycroft

Mycroft

Re:So What?

[Mycroft_VIII]

Spybot, Adaware, and McAfee anti-virus 8.0 pro do not detect c-dilla and/or do not consider it any sort of malware, at least not the version of c-dilla that puts data in areas not normally touched by a standard windows,nt, or linux format command.
By the way anyone know of a tool that safely removes that crap that c-dilla hides from format commands? Or better yet let's me edit or delete it?

Mycroft

Re:So What?

[TiggsPanther]

Interesting. In all seriousness, has anyone ever tried writing to Macrovision (and other software-DRM makers) and pointing this out to them?

I'd be interested to see how they'd respond, especially when confronted with the fact that however you try to bluff it, these discs definitely display trojan bahaviour. They may be (mostly) benign as opposed to the more malicious ones out there, but benign or not a trojan is a trojan.

Tiggs

Re:So What?

[kasperd]

I think Symantec should start lumping this crap in with viruses and trojans.

They most certainly should. But somehow I don't think they are going to do that. So what can you do about it? If you have legally purcased Symantec Antivirus (or whatever their product is called) and a trojaned CD, then maybe you should inform Symantec about their product not warning you about the trojan. And stop buying Symantec's products, if they don't want to fix it.

Re:So What?

[ScrewMaster]

Nope. It comes pre-replicated from the CD stamping plant, thereby reducing the processor and network resources consumed by more common forms of malware.

No "vaporware" is installed?

[Anonymous Coward]

Installing Vaporware? Good to know that the person who wrote that article has no clue what he/she is talking about.

Re:No "vaporware" is installed?

[WinterpegCanuck]

WHat are talking about? I download programs onto my system all the time from cd. Just like I download my web page up to my server.

</satire>

Re:No "vaporware" is installed?

[bakawally]

Damn. I was hoping that DNF would get installed.

Re:No "vaporware" is installed?

[Keifer]

Then what do you call that Half-Life 2 beta which "my friend" installed?

Re:No "vaporware" is installed?

[Shardis]

rofl, caught that myself... It's good to know that the CD doesn't install software that doesn't actually exist by definition - that's gotta be tough to do...

On the other hand, had my first good laugh of the day courtesy of whoever wrote that press release...

Re:No "vaporware" is installed?

[antiMStroll]

Leaked code.

Re:No "vaporware" is installed?

[NanoGator]

"Installing Vaporware? Good to know that the person who wrote that article has no clue what he/she is talking about."

Maybe vaporware is a reference to their medication.

Re:No "vaporware" is installed?

[Babbster]

"Vaporware" is not a synonym for unreleased software, even if release dates are pushed back. The term "vaporware" is meant to denote software that is not currently in development but has been announced as upcoming. Final Fantasy XII, for example, is an upcoming game. If Square Enix announced Final Fantasy XVII with no intention of starting development on it anytime soon, it would be vaporware.

Getting into actual usage, it's even more specifically used to castigate unfair practices by big companies where they announce they are going to release software or features - again, which they do not have actual plans to develop - in an effort to freeze out smaller companies' actual products. An example of this would be if Sony Online Entertainment (the Everquest people) announced (in a lie) the development of a superhero MMORPG in an effort to cause people to have second thoughts about buying and playing City of Heroes.

Yes, I know that there are better real examples in the application space, but hypotheticals allow me my laziness. :)

Does it work on Linux?

[thenextpresident]

I live up in Montreal, Canada, and I was actually at a store yesterday, and went to buy their CD, until I noticed the big text on the CD saying it was copy-protected. Anyways, I looked on the back, and it said it only ran on Windows or Mac. So, in the end, I didn't buy the CD because of that big text saying it was copy-protected.

Will the CD play on Linux? I am all for buying their CD, but I will NOT buy a CD I can't play at work or at home.

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[brandonY]

While not being familiar with this particular CD, I imagine if it runs successfully in a CD player, a linux ripper will probably not notice that it is somehow protected, but I could be wrong.

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[kzinti]

Fuck off you anti-social "rebel".

No, no, no... it's "Stay away from my house, you freak!"

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[Epistax]

Did you know that you can take your CD Rom, only plug in the power supply (no IDE), and if the cd rom isn't crap (if it has more than one button, unlike my current one, and has a headphone jack) you can play the CD? Again, that's without the connect to the computer at all. I did this back home for fun since I had an extra power supply. (The supply didn't require a motherboard connection to turn on.)

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[Pakaran2]

It depends if it relies on things that CD-ROM drives don't correct for, such as slightly invalid formats.

If it uses autoplay to install a driver, Linux, which doesn't support autoplay and couldn't run a windoze driver if it wanted to, will have no problem. It'd be like trying to use dutch elm disease against soldiers.

Also, keep in mind that (no duh) the Linux drivers for IDE devices are written completely separately from the Windows ones, and have different vulnerabilities (and if they have the same vunerabilities, then fine, I'll wait 3 days, emerge sync && emerge -uD world && genkernel all && emerge nvidia-kernel nvidia-glx hotplug emu10k1 and I'm all set).

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[fermion]

A similiar thing happened to me about a year ago. I was at a house concert with an indie band. I was ready to buy thier CD until I say some crap about Windows compatibility on the back. I don't know if it was DRM, and didn't really waste my time asking. I put it back and saved my money for the indie bands that distribute standard compliant CD.

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[TwistedSquare]

I recently bought a CD labelled as copy protected. When I inserted it into a Windows PC it installed its own little player. Fine I thought, and just ripped it to mp3 (no point making the CD-ROM spin all day). Then as an experiment I copied the CD. I also played it fine in my hi-fi. I fail to see quite how it was "copy-protected".

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[sjwaste]

Uh, did you ever stop and think it was an enhanced CD? You know, music tracks at the beginning and usually some video files at the end that you can access in a computer? A lot of bands release those, in fact a whole lot more release those than a CD with DRM. It's one thing to make a conscious decision to not buy copy protected things, but come on, take off your tinfoil hat, the damn thing was likely not copy protected. For one, name me an indie label that has implemented DRM. Mod me down to hell for this, but the ignorance in some cases (this one) is amazing.

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[Simonetta]

Thanks for the message. It's good to know. There is a 'power good' signal on the motherboard power connection that goes back to the power supply. But your experiment says that it only applies to the power supply connector that goes to the motherboard.
I have used a +12/+5 power supply with an old junk CD burner and it worked with RedBook CDs. I have lots of old disfuctional CD burners since they used to last only about a year.

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[WhiteBandit]

I'm not really down with music cd's automatically downloading stuff to my computer. I have many other audio players that will play the CD fine, thanks!

Would turning off the autorun feature in Windows prevent stuff like this from happening? I keep it turned off since I find the windows automatically popping up to be an annoyance, especially if I just want to explore the files on the CD. :P

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[ShawnD]

Power Good is a signal TO the motherboard! It is used to hold the processor in reset until the power is all the way on.

The reason a supply won't work alone is usually not enough load (Connect an old hard drive or headlight bulb) to keep the supply happy.

To make an ATX supply turn on by itself ground the green wire (to any black wire) with enough load connected.

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[GMFTatsujin]

Yes. Yes it does.

On my Gentoo box, I ran Grip 3.2, and everything extracted flawlessly. There's no static, skipping, or any other hijinx going on here. It rips and encodes fine.

If you're asking "will it play under a cd-playing app instead of a ripping app," then I couldn't tell you. I go straight to rip'n'archive mode.

There is a data track on the CD -- perhaps there's some other goodies on it like wallpaper or whatever that you can only get to on a Win/Mac, but I'm not in it for that. I just want the tunes.

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[sg3000]

> went to buy their CD, until I noticed the big text on the CD
> saying it was copy-protected

I saw the same thing when I bought the CD (it was $9.99 at Best Buy, rather than ~$15 on the iTunes Music Store). I almost didn't buy it, but I figured I'd try to rip it, and if it didn't work, I'd just return it.

However, I had no problems ripping the CD into iTunes, and copying it to several iPods. It's a pretty good CD, too.

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[ejdmoo]

(and if they have the same vunerabilities, then fine, I'll wait 3 days, emerge sync && emerge -uD world && genkernel all && emerge nvidia-kernel nvidia-glx hotplug emu10k1 and I'm all set)

Then you can wait 3 more days!

I love Gentoo, but that is not the solution to your problem. :)

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[rizzo420]

a lot of cd's come with windows logos on them because they have special features. if you read what you replied to carefully, you'd see taht it was most likely an enhanced cd. enhanced cd's do not cost more than regular cd's adn they work just fine on a standard cd player. the special features on them are on a small data track with stuff liek music videos as described above. sometimes they're windows executables, so you won't be able to run them in linux, sometimes they're mpegs or flash or something. nothing on the cd prevents you from copying the music or anything, it's not drm, it's not copy protected. if an indie band sold a cd that you could only play in windows, that'd be incredibly stupid, but they might throw in some extra features that will only run in windows. this is not a case of the band not understanding the audience. maybe if you took 2 more seconds to find out what the windows logo was there for, you'd be able to give more money to that indie band. but you're too high and mighty to have to deal with something that has a windows logo on it. your loss, not theirs. they'd probably prefer to have less pretentious fans anyways.

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[Alsee]

will not work with the Beastie Boys CD. It doesn't do anything an ordinary CD player doesn't do.

So, you're saying ordinary boombox CD players can't play these disks?

-

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[PhrostyMcByte]

You can get past the mobo requirement of most PSUs by shorting the green wire with a black wire.

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[Long-EZ]

I agree. When I buy a CD, I'm buying music encoded in a standard format. I generaly rip my CDs and listen to them with my MP3 player. I absolutely do not want a lot of enhanced CD features, regardless of whether they're bundling Windows EXEs, music videos, concert photos or anything else. I want a standard audio CD. Period.

I won't knowingly buy an enhanced CD. Despite the /. comments that "it's just some extra stuff, ignore it", I've had a fair amount of trouble ripping and encoding enhanced CDs. I haven't found one yet that I couldn't rip, but it always involved some additional level of grief.

I was left with the impression that enhanced CDs are about half marketing crap, and half low level copy protection.

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[Noginbump]

One of the guys on my network shares his music library, and this Cd was in the collection. It's not bad. Some of it has an old school Curtis Blow type feel to it. Some of it sounds like they are just looking for opportunites to say "motherf***". Some of it tries too hard to be political.

Which, if you've listened to a lot of Beastie Boys, you'll know that most of their lyrics are a combination of self-appreciation, oddball pseudo-namedropping and rhymes that would be silly if they weren't so crafty.

For example:

Music for all not just one people
And now we're gonna bust with the Putney Swope sequel
More Adidas sneakers that a plumber got pliers
Got more suits that Jacoby & Meyers

That works for me. It makes Joe Schmuckatelli wonder who the heck Putney Swope is, or who Jacoby and Meyers are.

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[bluness]

Be careful about doing this on modern power supplies, some power supplies can be damaged if there is no load(something drawing power), or not enough of a load on the supply.

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[sjwaste]

So basically you didn't give this band the benefit of the doubt? You know, they're an indie band, likely trying to get heard. It's very unlikely that they're going to screw you on the purchase of their CD. Second, DRM costs money. You either have to develop it or license it, and from the band and smaller label's standpoint, it's not worth the added cost. See, they WANT you to share it with friends. Yeah, it'd be better if your friends bought copies, rather than burnt yours, but for an indie band its generally not about the money. It's too early in the game for them to worry about that. I dunno, I'm a strong supporter of the whole indie scene, but I really don't think I'm off base here at all. But man, how bad has the music industry gotten when we're reluctant to trust independant bands and labels? Oh well, while I'm posting this, here's a cheap plug for R5 Productions. I have no affiliation with them, other than attending shows that they produce. If you're in the Philly area, you know what I'm talking about. These guys put on some great shows, bring in some great bands, provide a good atmosphere, etc etc.

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[Ilgaz]

Best is to use traditional way, not a problem if cd has no buttons...

Open case, plug the "audio out" or if your sound card has digital input (and cd player too) "digital audio out" (a bit messy btw) to sound card or if its onboard, documented motherboard connector, run "cdplay" from console, which is generally included with Linuxes... Oh of course, you do it while PC off :)

All cdroms should have basic cd playing capability whether they have buttons or not, seems its kind of some standard.

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[Mycroft_VIII]

Not so much a standard, it's just that it's cheaper to make one chip (or set of) for both and put both featuresets, especialy since cd-rom is mostly a superset of cd player, on both devices.

Mycroft

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[sjwaste]

No, you missed it, it was likely an enhanced CD and NOT DRM.

Re:Does it work on Linux?

[tehcyder]

Um, I think you are missing the point that it would be difficult to copy a CD (for backup purposes, of course) if the CD drive wasn't connected to the motherboard.

No vaporware!

[Mold]

This Macrovision technology does NOT install spyware or vaporware of any kind on a users PC.

I'm so glad they're not installing vaporware on my machine! Phew! I was worried for a bit there.

Re:No vaporware!

[Dr Tall]

But I want to play Duke Nukem so bad!!

Re:No vaporware!

[mog007]

It's to qwell the rumours that 3DRealms would be bundling DNF on the new CD. Seriously.

Re:No vaporware!

[MBCook]

I'm so glad they're not installing vaporware on my machine!

There were going to... but it wasn't ready yet. *rimshot*

Re:No vaporware!

[Esion Modnar]

OK. This message has to be from the marketing department, NOT the tech department. Because anybody worthy of claiming to be from the tech department knows that vaporware, by its very definition, cannot be installed.

Its like that mythical element, nonobtainium.

And if its from the marketing department, 1st: I believe nothing the marketing department says, and 2nd: wouldn't trust their technical qualifications to say what was or wasn't installed anywhere. They wouldn't even know what a RAM was, much less if anything installed to it.

Vaporware?

[DeepHurtn!]

"This Macrovision technology does NOT install spyware or vaporware of any kind on a users PC."

Since when was anyone accusing them of using software that doesn't exist? Wouldn't we all be happy if all new spyware turned out to be vaporware?

So..

[t_allardyce]

Are they admitting themselves that the DRM is totally crap and easily by-passed and that most rippers will easily be able to get this on the P2P networks thus defeating the entire purpose of the system because now only clue-less users will be stopped by it and its mainly these clue-less users who wish to honestly copy the CD for fair-use reasons?

Re:So..

[TwistedSpring]

Macrovision's stance on copy protection is to DISCOURAGE people easilly copying stuff. They are not so naive as to imagine that they will STOP people copying things, but they put things like this in your way to make copying tracks more of an inconvenience. After all, you can always rip the track by playing it on a CD player with SP-DIF output, or even record it over an analogue connection. The protection is there to make ripping more difficult. They freely admit that if you can listen to it, then you can copy it. Any audio on a CD must go through a simple DAC at some point so you can hear it, and that point is the point where you can rip it in full fidelity (if at realtime speeds).

Re:So..

[t_allardyce]

You miss the point: most of the people who rip and share on p2p know how to get past the DRM with their eyes closed. Most people who know nothing about p2p but just want to do simple fair-use things (eg watch a DVD on their old TV by plugging it into the VCR, or copying a CD for their car or incase the kids break it) generally don't know how to by-pass the DRM. So the DRM is only doing its intended job when it stops people who are knowledgable enough to know about sharing on p2p but not knowledgable enough to know about by-passing the DRM, this is a very small group.

As for discouraging, does it really? looking at the numbers from above, you're going to piss off the people who just wanted fair-use and the other side are going to get the old "don't eat from the tree" - i.e if something is forbidden, people will want to do it more. Again theirs a small section of people who will know how to by-pass but just wont be bothered and in this particular case, "not being bothered" really means "not being bothered to hold down the shift key".

This is not a cd then

[cove209]

Can they call this a cd then? Does it conform to red book standards?

Re:This is not a cd then

[Trillan]

I don't have a copy, but from actually reading the original article -- yes, it conforms to red book standards. The issue is content (malware), not structure.

Re:This is not a cd then

[Pakaran2]

I don't think you can trademark an abbreviation, or common noun - hence George Eastmasn couldn't trademark "film" and Intel couldn't trademark processor numbers.

As such, calling it a CD - compact disc - is fine, since it's a disc that's smaller than a record. I think the trademark is "CD-Audio" and the logo.

Re:This is not a cd then

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

The copy protection system used for all EMI/Capitol releases including "To the 5 Boroughs" is Macrovision's CDS-200, which sets up an audio player into the users RAM (not hard drive) to playback the RED book audio on the disk. It does absolutely NOT install any kind of spyware, shareware, silverware, or ladies wear onto the users system.

Re:This is not a cd then

[91degrees]

I think the trademark is "CD-Audio" and the logo.

I think you're right. I've heard that they aren't allowed to (and therefore don't) put the "compact disc audio" logo on CDs with this copy protection.

Re:This is not a cd then

[Pakaran2]

You *can* trademark a common noun in a novel context - "Apple Computer," "Big Mac," "Mandrake."

What you can't do is trademark it in a situation where others might very likely want to use it for reasons unrelated to pretending to be you.

Re:This is not a cd then

[RALE007]

I don't think you can trademark an abbreviation...

HP might disagree with you on that one. Since hp is their logo, and their logo is trademarked, it wouldn't be wise to go into a computer related business and refer to yourself as "HP".

Re:This is not a cd then

[MP3Chuck]

From the Wikipedia: "Philips have stated that such discs, which do not meet the Red Book specification, are not permitted to bear the trademarked Compact Disc Digital Audio logo."

Re:This is not a cd then

[jeffgeno]

No. It's labelled as an "Enhanced CD" on the packaging. The "Compact Disc Digital Audio" logo doesn't appear.

haha

[wankledot]

"This Macrovision technology does NOT install spyware or vaporware of any kind on a users PC."

Uh... do they even know what vaporware means? I love press releases like this, they should just how little the PR goons know about anything related to this technology.

Re:haha

[SilentChris]

I work with "PR goons". They aren't the ones that come up with words like this. The PR people go to the technology people and ask for details. The good ones ask for lots of details and learn about the tech. Then, they carefully craft a response (leaving out some of the bad stuff). The good ones do it with a modicum of integrity.

Any PR person worth his salt wouldn't come up with words like "vaporware". They'd get it from some *tech guy* that doesn't know what he's talking about. All PR people do is craft the response to the public in a way that best benefits the company.

Re:haha

[Yer Mom]

If putting a Beastie Boys CD in my PC caused it to install Duke Nukem Forever, then I'd be down the record store right away...

"Where did Duke Nukem Forever come from?!"

[loyalsonofrutgers]

The newspost on the Beastie Boys website also includes the denial that the CD installs any vaporware on the user's PC. This has clueless manager written allllll over it.

Re:"Where did Duke Nukem Forever come from?!"

[tigress]

Oh? I dare you to prove that it DOES install vaporware. :D

Hmm...

[Anonymous Coward]

"It does absolutely NOT install any kind of spyware, shareware, silverware, or ladies wear onto the users system."

I dunno, lonely men will pay a lot for certain types of "ladies wear" on the Internet. Maybe this could be a new RIAA marketing scheme...

Just Another Reason For News

[artlu]

Like most security measures, there will always be some sort of method of bypassing the security. However, the recording industries must waste money trying to convince consumers and management that evil MP3s will not be created. Honestly, in the worst case scenario, I could always play the CD on my home stereo and connect the output into the audio-in on my PC and record the damn thing in SoundForge or the like.

I guess it is just people doing their jobs. :(

GroupShares - A Free and Interactive Stock Trading Community

Re:Just Another Reason For News

[Anml4ixoye]

Honestly, in the worst case scenario, I could always play the CD on my home stereo and connect the output into the audio-in on my PC and record the damn thing in SoundForge or the like.

And that they understand. Becuase then you are making an analog copy that is degraded from the original. Same scenario if you try to make a copy of a cassette - your only basic option is to capture first in analog before you convert it to digital thereby reducing the sound quality.

Re:Just Another Reason For News

[cens0r]

But my CD player as spdif out, and my computer has spdif in. All it takes is one person like me to put it on the internet and then the cats out of the bag, and trust me when I say I'm not the only one with digital connections on my equipment.

Re:Just Another Reason For News

[Anonymous Coward]

All it takes is one person like me to put it on the internet and then the cats out of the bag,

And let's face it; even if it was necessary to convert to analog at one stage, the drop in quality is likely to be fairly small compared to the drop caused by someone using a ropey encoder at 128kbps. Most people aren't *that* bothered.

Re:Just Another Reason For News

[value_added]

"When I become supreme overlord Jack Valenti and Orrin Hatch are the first to be sent to the camps."

Not to be too critical, but political posturing demands that you stay abreast of current events.

Re:Just Another Reason For News

[cens0r]

Hey, I know he's retiring as the head of the MPAA. But that doesn't excuse him from past crimes. If the green river killer had announced his retirement that wouldn't mean that he shouldn't be punished for the stuff he did do.

And as supreme overlord, I will have the ability to send anyone I want to the camps! Now I just have to figure out how to get that position. 1. Announce my intentions on slashdot.
2. ????
3. Become Supreme Overlord.
4. Profit!!!!

Server is to Busy: Here is the Text

[thenextpresident]

1. There is NO copy controlled software on US or UK releases of Beastie Boys' "To the 5 Boroughs."

2. The disk *IS* copy controlled in Europe - which is standard policy for all
Capitol/EMI titles (and a policy used by ALL major labels in Europe).

3. The copy protection system used for all EMI/Capitol releases including "To the 5 Boroughs" is Macrovision's CDS-200, which sets up an audio player into the users RAM (not hard drive) to playback the RED book audio on the disk. It does absolutely NOT install any kind of spyware, shareware, silverware, or ladies wear onto the users system.

You can find more information on the technology used here:
http://www.macrovision.com/products/cds/cds 200/ind ex.shtml

This is what EMI has to say about it:
Reports that "spyware" is being included on the Beastie Boy's CD, 'To The Five Boroughs' are absolutely untrue.

While the Beastie Boys CD does use copy control in some territories, there is no copy control on the Beasties Boys discs in the US or the UK. Where copy protection is used, it is Macrovision's CDS-200 technology; the same technology being used for the past several months around the world for all of EMI's releases in those territories. This Macrovision technology does NOT install spyware or vaporware of any kind on a users PC. In fact, CDS-200 does not install software applications of ANY KIND on a user's PC. All the copy protection in CDS-200 is hardware based, meaning that it is dependent on the physical properties and the format of the CD. None of the copy protection in CDS-200 requires software applications to be loaded onto a computer.

The technology does activate a proprietary Macrovision player in order to play the CD on a PC, and that player converts WMA compressed files to audio on the fly. It also temporarily installs a graphic "skin" for the player. Nothing is permanently installed on a hard drive. These details can be verified in the 'install.log' file in the computer's root directory.

Re:Server is to Busy: Here is the Text

[senzafine]

It's unfortunate that it's come to this. Artists don't have as much say in wether or not DRM is on their cds or not. Their recording label and the RIAA control alot of that.

The last cd I had which was copy-protected wouldn't even play in my cdrom. And of course I couldn't return it. I was pissed...but what can ya do?

Re:Server is to Busy: Here is the Text

[thenextpresident]

Not buy the CD. I won't buy CD's that are copy-protected. Basically, if I see that it's copy-protected, I look for the CD logo. If it's not on there, why would I want to buy something that isn't a CD?

Oh, it sucks. I like the Beastie Boy's, and I was going to buy their CD. I picked it up, and started walking to the register. But as soon as I saw that it was protected, I put it back.

I will buy CD's. I won't buy things that look like CD's, but aren't.

Re:Server is to Busy: Here is the Text

[cpghost]

These details can be verified in the 'install.log' file in the computer's root directory.

and

This Macrovision technology does NOT install spyware or vaporware of any kind on a users PC. In fact, CDS-200 does not install software applications of ANY KIND on a user's PC. All the copy protection in CDS-200 is hardware based,

So, if everything is hardware protection, why do they touch some "install.log" in the computer's root directory?

"This Macrovision technology does NOT install spyware or vaporwaere..." of course not. We call this mandatory DRM protection over here at EMI; not "spyware."

Re:Server is to Busy: Here is the Text

[ch3]

So, if I understand correctly, we (European minus UK) are considered as notorious pirates that rip everything passing by? Nice...

Re:Server is to Busy: Here is the Text

[senzafine]

True. After my experience I no longer buy DRM'ed cds. I do however wish the artist would provide alternative ways for their fans to support them. If it's "buy our DRM'ed cd or nothing"...I'll continue to look at soulseek.

Re:Server is to Busy: Here is the Text

[tx_kanuck]

It's not that they touch install.log, it's just one way to "prove" that nothing was installed. IIRC, everytime something is installed on a windows machine, an entry is placed in install.log

Re:Server is to Busy: Here is the Text

[Skapare]

Is that legitimate RED book audio? If so, then it should be playable with ANY software, on ANY operating system, that supports RED book audio via the CDROM device being used.

But none of this matters. Audio still has the big gaping "analog hole", and music can be ripped through that hole with better quality (nearly bit-perfect if you do it right, which isn't exactly trivial, but only needs to be done once) than is typically traded on the internet.

Re:Server is to Busy: Here is the Text

[SirTalon42]

"It's not that they touch install.log, it's just one way to "prove" that nothing was installed. IIRC, everytime something is installed on a windows machine, an entry is placed in install.log"

So when viruses, spyware, trojans, ad-ware, and the like install them selfs update install.log to show it? Hell no, and this doesn't either.

Re:Server is to Busy: Here is the Text

[Wanderer2]

So, if I understand correctly, we (European minus UK) are considered as notorious pirates that rip everything passing by? Nice...

In EMI/Capitol's view, yes. In the eyes of other labels we in the UK are just as likely as the rest of Europe to have a hook, parrot and a penchant for 'stealing' sea shanties from other mariners...

I went to buy the latest Faithless album the other week, saw the label that indicated it would try to ***k up my computer and put it straight back down.

Re:Server is to Busy: Here is the Text

[rbowen]

"Nothing is permanently installed on a hard drive. These details can be verified in the 'install.log' file in the computer's root directory."

Um ... if nothing is permanently installed on my hard drive, how does the install.log get there?

Re:Server is to Busy: Here is the Text

[pyrros]

>IIRC, everytime something is installed on a windows
>machine, an entry is placed in install.log

You don't. install.log is mostly used so an unistaller can now what to delete. A typical install.log resides inside a program's directory. I did a quick search in my hdd, and out of 28 install.log files, 26 where in \program files\foo and two where in \windows\system32\macromed\ (BAD macromedia).

The macrovision people get extra credit for dumping a file in the root directory.

Re:Server is to Busy: Here is the Text

[herrvinny]

3. The copy protection system used for all EMI/Capitol releases including "To the 5 Boroughs" is Macrovision's CDS-200, which sets up an audio player into the users RAM (not hard drive) to playback the RED book audio on the disk. It does absolutely NOT install any kind of spyware, shareware, silverware, or ladies wear onto the users system.

Really? How fascinating....

Re:Server is to Busy: Here is the Text

[tx_kanuck]

Then I stand corrected. Live and learn I guess.

Re:Server is to Busy: Here is the Text

[NilsK]

Nothing is permanently installed on a hard drive. These details can be verified in the 'install.log' file in the computer's root directory.

1. What is the root directory on a windows machine?

2. How does install.log get there, when nothing is stored on the computers HDD?

Re:Server is to Busy: Here is the Text

[Mycroft_VIII]

But that's not what he said, he said "...than is typically traded on the internet..."
What is typically traded on the internet is MP3 encoded, a lossy format.

Mycroft

Re:Server is to Busy: Here is the Text

[FuzzyBad-Mofo]

The disk *IS* copy controlled in Europe - which is standard policy

Ah, well that's OK then. As long as it's a standard policy, right? By the way, I like to return CDs that don't meet my needs. That's my policy. Hope the labels don't mind!

Re:Server is to Busy: Here is the Text

[Skapare]

How often do you see bit-perfect rips traded online?

It should...

[TWX]

"Will the CD play on Linux? I am all for buying their CD, but I will NOT buy a CD I can't play at work or at home."

IIRC, it's just an autorun thing that installs the program from the data side of a mixed-mode CD. I'm not sure about the Macintosh side. I don't see why you couldn't read the audio side of the CD in Linux, and since the data side is irrelevant under Linux it shouldn't matter either way.

Re:It should...

[hunterx11]

Isn't mixed-mode where the data portion is track 1, but the whole disc is one session? Like all those games (Marathon 2, Warcraft II, Mechwarrior 2) that had the soundtrack if you put them into a CD player.

Re:It should...

[TWX]

Yep. Other companies have released audio CDs with data portions, with stuff like music videos, games, info on the band, and the like on the data segment. The "soundtrack" just happens to be the bulk of the important content while the data portion is a "value added feature".

Re:It should...

[proj_2501]

that's usually with track 1 as audio, not as data, which i think is a different standard.

Re:It should...

[Nasarius]

You're mistaken, at least in my experience. I recently bought the Go EP by Sarah Bettens. The first five tracks are audio; the sixth track is data.
Incidentally, it also has a link to a website with exclusive content, so people who actually bought the CD will get extra stuff. That's the kind of thing I love to see. As someone said in the other Slashdot post about this Beastie Boys album, use a carrot, not a stick.

Re:It should...

[proj_2501]

that's what i meant !

Re:yes

[Pakaran2]

Yeah, well, if you want to run HURD, you'll have to install it yourself, I guess. It's free software, so you'd think they could legally bundle it with a music CD, but must have decided not to.

Maybe the album couldn't be 13 years late?

Now when Macrovision starts incorporating tupperware, I'll be worried - imagine having to push the lid of the jewel case down to burp it before you can move the CD to another device.

Have we all forgotten about the SHIFT key?

[Anonymous Coward]

Much ado for nothing...

Re:Duh?

[brandonY]

Was that a question? Phase 2 was press the rip button in iTunes.

Ill Communication

[barcodez]

Looks like their server has some Ill Communication they had better get their root down

Re:Ill Communication

[ideatrack]

I don't know, that's gratitude for you. It could be sabotage, but I'm sure it'll be alive again soon. Let's hope they get it together.

Khuhuhuhuhuh.

It worked

[Dachannien]

The best thing about this was that the public outcry worked enough to demand a statement from the artists (or at least the artists' minders). It shows that the RIAA model of distrusting the customer is flawed, and that the people still have some power. Perhaps in the future, the awareness of this sort of malware will help prevent it from propagating further.

Re:It worked

[DeepHurtn!]

"It shows that the RIAA model of distrusting the customer is flawed, and that the people still have some power."

As long as people keep on buying DRMized albums the RIAA model will not only survive but thrive. People do have power, yes, but they have not used it yet -- most people have simply accepted this sort of crap as a fact of life.

As for the statement, I wouldn't attach too much importance to it. Whoever wrote it is clueless (vaporware?) -- probably just a marketing hack.

Re:It worked

[Dachannien]

Well, I hope it was more significant than what you say. But at the very least, it was a blip on somebody's radar.

Re:It worked

[DeepHurtn!]

"Well, I hope it was more significant than what you say."

So do I. ;) I'm just a cynic, and I think most people are far too apathetic about their rights and the cultural environment they live in.

Torrent

[barcodez]

The first torrent of this album was uploaded to the most famous of the torrent sites on the 4th June. This DRM thing is obviously pointless. What's the point DRMing in one market and not another - the Internet doesn't respect physical boundaries.

If I was feeling cynical I would think they are just doing this for publicity.

Re:Torrent

[pyrros]

A few months ago, they started using JS to load iframes with the torrent listings. If you already know what you are looking for, use search.suprnova.org

Re:Torrent

[Saeger]

You wouldn't happen to be referring to SUPRNOVA.ORG , would you?

Not that I am suggesting that anyone go to that site...

Why not? Suprnova doesn't host any infringing material itself -- neither did the late ShareReactor.com for that matter (whack-a-mole replacement: ShareConnector.com) -- but only .torrent POINTERS to data which MAY or MAY NOT infringe.

Of course, if the new "PIRATE" bill becomes law, a lawyer (in the U.S., so it doesn't matter until a treaty makes it international) might say that both BitTorrent itself and Suprnova "induce" copyright infringement, and indeed 95% of the torrents are to content released under restrictive copyright rather than freer copyleft.

--

Re:Torrent

[alphaseven]

What's the point DRMing in one market and not another - the Internet doesn't respect physical boundaries.

This'll have no effect on internet piracy, though i think the point may be to make it harder for regular people to burn a copy for a friend or to get people who use portable MP3 players to buy the album again from an online service.

The fact that they're doing it in some markets and not others probably means someone will be doing some research as to how it effects sales.

Re:Torrent

[Alsee]

I think you are confusing the PIRATE act (allowing the US government to initiate civil lawsuits on behalf of copyright holders) with the INDUCE act (which imprisons YOU for making that SUPRNOVA.ORG link clickable).

-

Re:Torrent

[Saeger]

Ah, right. IANAL. Got my wires crossed on this new batch of acronyms.

--

Re:Torrent

[jrumney]

Or their "research" in US and UK markets has finally shown that illegally downloaded MP3s improve, or at least don't affect, sales of CDs (I know there have been press releases to that effect in UK, and I think Australia too, but haven't heard of any in the US yet), but their "research" in other markets is lagging.

Err, Redbook != WMA

[murderlegendre]

Am I the only one who sees a strange contradiction between the following lines in the press release?

The copy protection system used for all EMI/Capitol releases including "To the 5 Boroughs" is Macrovision's CDS-200, which sets up an audio player into the users RAM (not hard drive) to playback the RED book audio on the disk.

Vs.

The technology does activate a proprietary Macrovision player in order to play the CD on a PC, and that player converts WMA compressed files to audio on the fly.

So, which is it then? A Redbook audio cd, or a data CD with WMA compressed files? Am I reading this right?

Re:Err, Redbook != WMA

[Anonymous Coward]

Speculation: maybe both? If it can execute a file, it'll play the DRMed WMA...if it appears to be a plain vanilla cd player, play the cd tracks.

I think it's a matter of attrition -- see how many people proceed if you make the task just slightly more difficult. The object isn't to win as much as it is to dissuade enough of the population.

For the fans who are going to buy the CD anyway, this isn't going to matter much.

For those who haven't heard of the Beastie Boys and wish to hear/own some of the tracks to judge the band's worth...um...welcome to planet earth. Point is they're not exactly an indie band trying to become popular.

Re:Err, Redbook != WMA

[cbreaker]

Although their guy got it wrong (the player does not play the redbook audio it plays WMA files) it does sound to me like this is simply a multi-session CD.

A PC will always play the last session, and an audio player will always play the first session. In this manner you can put both data and audio on a CD and have them easily accessable to both types of players.

In Windows, all you have to do is hold down the shift key while mounting the CD. It will load the first session on the disc instead of their crap DRM data session. Then rip away.

Damn Straight.

[Mark_MF-WN]

I don't even care about the Beastie Boys music, but I'm downloading it right now so that I can share it out. If the artists and labels don't respect fair use, fair use will be thrust upon them.

Re:Damn Straight.

[wasabii]

Um. That's not fair use. That's plain copyright violation. Fair use says you can listen to the music you bought, in any way you choose. You can rip it to your HD, you can make backups.

Fair use does not say you can download it from the internet nor share it with people.

That is plain theft. You moron.

Re:Damn Straight.

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

Is it copyright violation or theft? The two are not the same thing.

You moron.

Re:Damn Straight.

[cartzworth]

Actually, Thats plain copyright infringement Mr. Hatch, but we won't go there. You're correct thats not fair use, but what the poster is saying is that the recording industry doesnt respect fair use so he is going to use civil disobedience to disrespect them in return.

Re:Damn Straight.

[liquidsin]

We'll leave out the argument of it not being theft, since I have not the patience for idiocy at the moment. However, you can most certainly argue that it's for the cause of fair use if the people who purchased it can't listen to it on their computer any other way. Just because the original poster said he's downloading it doesn't mean he's listening to it.

Re:Damn Straight.

[TheSpoom]

Not theft, copyright infringement. Civil, not criminal. But yeah, not fair use.

Unless you're in Canada. Like me. :^P

Re:Damn Straight.

[Fruit]

Downloading is allowed under copyright law. Offering it for download isn't.
(Dutch copyright law).

Re:Damn Straight.

[Vystrix Nexoth]

he didn't say that what he's doing is fair use. what he means is this is his way of protesting the way the record companies are trying to prevent fair use (such as with this DRM thing).
basically, "allow fair use or we won't pay money for your music".

how well that'll work is anyone's guess. that's just my view on it.

Re:Damn Straight.

[ratsnapple tea]

No, civil and criminal. Though it's rarely prosecuted as such.

Re:Damn Straight.

[Darby]

Um. That's not fair use. That's plain copyright violation. Fair use says you can listen to the music you bought, in any way you choose. You can rip it to your HD, you can make backups.


Well, they are trying to take away our fair use rights, so pushing back farther seems fair enough to me. If they try to take an inch and they lose a foot, how is that in any way a bad thing?
Maybe they will learn not to do it again ever.

Fat chance, but what the OP suggested wasn't an action it was a reaction and one that seems perfectly reasonable given the provocation.

How is this not so?

Re:You gotta fight for your right

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

The problem is the people who take that same "who cares" attitude about the RIAA. People who take the "who cares" attitude about p2p or even their computers.

I was having a discussion at a family party just the other week, and was shocked to hear my GRANDMOTHER talking about how "EVIL the RIAA is" (her words). I asked her what she was talking about, and she said that the commercials where they force the children to admit to being criminals is wrong. That got my aunts asking me where to get music from. Some wanted a legal way of doing it (I got one aunt setup with iTunes) and some wanted a free way of doing it.

More and more people are noticing the RIAA and more and more people are getting sick and tired of it.

Bought it, ripped it, stored it

[snillfisk]

.. and all that were done in Europe (where the CD actually contains a "Copy Controlled"-marking, which I didn't see anything about when ordering it on the web), under Windows 2000 (with Auth-play disabled). The OGGs came out perfectly fine without any problems. Yes, the CD should be perfectly playable under linux (unless someone has implemented insertion notification and auto-run and automagical installation and implementation of windows drivers into the kernel. ;)

And this also goes for all other current protection systems that I've had my hands on during the last months.. No idea why they even try.

Re:You gotta fight for your right

[0racle]

Fry: "Wow the Beastie Boys, a 1000 years ago i had all 5 of your albums."
Mike D: "Ya but that was a 1000 years ago..."
Adam Horovitz: "Now we have 7."

Norton isn't so innocent

[WinterpegCanuck]

I like my recycle bin the way it is, painfully microsoft, I don't need it painfully microsoft and horribly symantec at the same time. Try and walk the average home user through disabling it over the phone. . . well then, my mother has always been the hardest person for me to give tech support for. . .. too much swearing knocks me out of the will.

So Duke Nukem Forever ISN'T installed?!

[mattbot 5000]

I bought that CD specifically for that vaporware!

Which is it?

[Mark_MF-WN]

I've read that the "RAM player" plays back the RED book audio, and also that it plays back "encrypted WMA files". Which is it? Can't these people even get their story straight?

Broadcast Flag

[Mark_MF-WN]

This is why "broadcast flag" technology is being added to digital media streams and to all media-player hardware. So that even that option wont be available.

Re:Broadcast Flag

[cens0r]

This isn't going to happen until SACD and DVD-A become widespread (if ever). CD's are to ubiqituous and there is too much hardware already out there for them to impliment this.

Re:Broadcast Flag

[cens0r]

I can still buy new music on vinyl. Even though it's no ubiquitos, it still exists. And the CD has much greater market penetration than vinyl ever did. Even one of the next generation audio formats is backward compatible with CD.

All it takes is for the industry to switch, and it will happen. "See this new MC Buttplug album? Only available on DVD-BP" Bang, CD will die.

Or more likely, no one buys MC Buttplug and the record company is forced to release it on CD. Eventually (we're talking 10 to 20 years) the record companies might (and i stress might) have created enough market penetration to implement a broadcast flag on all media, but I really doubt it. To joe sixpack, the CD is good enough quality and will remain the dominant music distribution format. If anything supercedes it, it will be some sort of WMA, MP3, or AAC form of digital, download able music. They can try all they want to lock it up, but someone will always crack it. And once someone does it will be easily distributable.

RAID meta-data ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if the beasties and company would pay for Ontrack to recover RAID table meta-data, as writing DRM information to hidden disk sectors will fail some RAID arrays. Remember TurboTax!

Re:Damn fool DRM & how to circumvent it

[BandwidthHog]

I get the impression from what I've read, that the Mac DRM only works with OS X.

I heard that it only worked under Mac OS 9 and/or Classic, as Mac OS X doesn't have an analogous autoplay feature. Actually, I read recently that 10.0 and 10.1 did, but they removed it at 10.2 Not sure if that's really the case, though.

If so, may I suggest the following:

Don't buy that shit.

Re:Damn fool DRM & how to circumvent it

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

You live in the US. If you bought a copy from the store it would NOT have DRM.

What the hell?

[Mark_MF-WN]

Okay, so what is the player playing -- the "RED book audio", or some "WMA compressed files"? The article is a bit inconsistent. No, scratch that -- it flat out contradicts itself. I call bullshit on that!

Well done news..

[Turn-X Alphonse]

The sad thing is their actions haven't been on public news or anything. If they can report some idiots kicking a ball around why isn't the news reporting when a huge violation of trust and the law is done by a big company. When you look at how all this has played out you start to relise just how messed up the news community is...

If it's David Beckham then they will sell their left arm for a picture but if it's a serious issue like this then it gets no coverage and other then us geeks most people won't even have a clue about it..

Re:Well done news..

[SirTalon42]

"If it's David Beckham"

Who the hell is David Beckham?

Re:Well done news..

[Turn-X Alphonse]

A man who dresses like a woman and plays Football for England O.o

Re:Well done news..

[Fallen Kell]

Its simple. THEY OWN THE NEWS! Disney owns stations, Sony owns stations. When you get down to it, there isn't a major news network in the USA that isn't partly or wholly owned by a company/corporation that doesn't also own partly or wholly a major music industry corporation.

Re:Well done news..

[Yolegoman]

The Media has been messed up for some time now. How long have you been living in a hole? I mean, being a geek is great and all, but so is the outside world! :)

Re:Well done news..

[Turn-X Alphonse]

I mean the BBC, I have no faith in US news but I believe BBC for 80% of what they say.. they haven't said a word about it but news about spam and general crap we all know needs sorting but newbis will never be able to effect in the slightest gets loads of air time on channels

So you've noticed...

[Mark_MF-WN]

So you've noticed the sickly odour of bullshit emanating from this little press release?

hmm ram resident only?

[linuxislandsucks]

Most system admins would call this type of program behavior virus/wrom like in the least..

So what right does beastie Boys have installingvirsuses on my computer system just as punishment for buying their CD?

Re:hmm ram resident only?

[rusty0101]

Think of it, not as punishment, but as a reward for your loyalty. While other bands only give you a CD with some music on it, or if a data track is included, perhaps some video of the band performing as well, The Beastie Boys are giving you some ephemeral software as well. All for no additional cost.

Don't you feel loved?

Me either.

-Rusty

Re:Great...

[Astrorunner]

AFAIK, it loads its own CD player into memory. Your statement fails to compare the amount of memory used by the software on the CD, and your CD player of choice.

Re:You gotta fight for your right

[kitzilla]

The real question is "who cares" about the beastie boys latest album?

Well, it debuted at Number One on the Billboard Album Chart, so somebody must care.

What is most distressing is that the Beasties are the second DRM CD to hit the top of the chart. Boroughs displaced Velvet Revolver's Contraband at #1. Contraband is also DRM "protected."

This should open the floodgates. If record companies were ever shy of DRM, now they'll know people will buy their defective wares, anyway.

I'd like a copy of Velvet Revolver. But I won't buy it until I can find a copy on the used market. If the entire Slashdot world quit buying CDs, it would hardly make a dent (not that Slashdotters *always* pay for their music). But it's the principle of the whole thing.

My main bitch with DRM CDs is that it might make it more difficult to rip legally purchased music to my hard drive. I don't even own a standalone CD player these days, and I want to be able to load my library on an iPod. All perfectly legal activities, but Big Music wants to dictate how I listen and store my music. In the owrds of our Vice President, f*ck them.

And f*ck artists who go along with it. Maybe I don't need that Velvet Revolver CD, after all.

The confusion of copy protection/DRM

[flinxmeister]

I was trying to explain the workings of the various online digital distributors to someone at the office. After a couple minutes she said "I think I'll just buy the CD and rip it".

Now junk like this is adding the same confusion to purchasing a CD. The logical result? "I think I'll just download a pirated copy".

When you have to post a 'response' to a new thing on an old thing that used to just work, you have by definition created confusion. People will go for the simpler option: piracy.

Good thinkin' record people!

Re:The confusion of copy protection/DRM

[_Sprocket_]

When you have to post a 'response' to a new thing on an old thing that used to just work, you have by definition created confusion. People will go for the simpler option: piracy.

I've made a simular comment before.

If you want your data in a widely usefull format, you're going to have to know how to do some kind of hack. These hacks will become more and more complex. So the easier route would be to turn to your favorite source of illicit data and take advantage of someone else's work.

Not all illicit data sources are equal. Even before the various Media industry associations started hiring outfits to play shennanigans, getting a good quality RIP involved a fair degree of effort. Or money.

Now, once you've gone through all the effort to get your illicit data... what's the incentive of buying a legal copy? After all, you're already vested in the data you just aquired. It's not like going to buy a copy from the store is giving you a whole lot. And neither is buying and downloading a sanctioned copy.

The Music industry is making illicit data markets attractive.

On a side note - it's interesting to watch this work in a completely open market. Back in the early 90's, I spent some time in Saudi Arabia. There were no copyright laws. There were entire stores devoted to cheap knock-off cassettes of the latest pop music. However, there were also stores that sold both the cheap knock-offs and the better-quality official products. They were competatively priced with advertisements extolling the virtues (higher quality, lyrics, etc) of the official products. In the stores that sold both, I saw a lot of customers walking up to the register with official merchandise (as well as those who went for price over quality).

Cache

[cgenman]

Google Cache

1. There is NO copy controlled software on US or UK releases of Beastie Boys' "To the 5 Boroughs."

2. The disk *IS* copy controlled in Europe - which is standard policy for all
Capitol/EMI titles (and a policy used by ALL major labels in Europe).

3. The copy protection system used for all EMI/Capitol releases including "To the 5 Boroughs" is Macrovision's CDS-200, which sets up an audio player into the users RAM (not hard drive) to playback the RED book audio on the disk. It does absolutely NOT install any kind of spyware, shareware, silverware, or ladies wear onto the users system.

You can find more information on the technology used here:
http://www.macrovision.com/products/cds/cds 200/ind ex.shtml

This is what EMI has to say about it:
Reports that "spyware" is being included on the Beastie Boy's CD, 'To The Five Boroughs' are absolutely untrue.

While the Beastie Boys CD does use copy control in some territories, there is no copy control on the Beasties Boys discs in the US or the UK. Where copy protection is used, it is Macrovision's CDS-200 technology; the same technology being used for the past several months around the world for all of EMI's releases in those territories. This Macrovision technology does NOT install spyware or vaporware of any kind on a users PC. In fact, CDS-200 does not install software applications of ANY KIND on a user's PC. All the copy protection in CDS-200 is hardware based, meaning that it is dependent on the physical properties and the format of the CD. None of the copy protection in CDS-200 requires software applications to be loaded onto a computer.

The technology does activate a proprietary Macrovision player in order to play the CD on a PC, and that player converts WMA compressed files to audio on the fly. It also temporarily installs a graphic "skin" for the player. Nothing is permanently installed on a hard drive. These details can be verified in the 'install.log' file in the computer's root directory.

Re:Cache

[John Courtland]

That doesn't make any goddamn sense. Vapourware? Who ever wrote that article must not know what the fuck they're talking about.

Re:Cache

[TWX]

I've thought of drafting a letter to them, something like the following:

Dear Beastie Boys:

Stop trying to debate technical matters regarding the software your new CD tries to run with people who know far, far more about the details than you do. From our perspective it's like trying to have a duel with an unarmed man. Relax, your regular mindless fans won't know the situation anyway, and probably won't even be aware of the damage that you are illegally causing to their PCs, assuming that there are any people left who were fifteen the last time you had a release who still care to listen to you.

Normally I wouldn't have cared either way about your new CD, but in light of recent developments, I'll keep an eye out for it on the Internet.

Sincerely,
Random Techie

Re:Cache

[hhawk]

Or if I read this correctly, it executes code on the cd disc but doesn't install the software into your hard disk.

Re:Cache

[bgeer]

This Macrovision technology does NOT install spyware or vaporware of any kind on a users PC.

What a relief, we can only imagine what disastrous effects it might have if Duke Nukem Forever were to be surreptitiously installed on the defenseless hard drives of innocent beastie-boy fans.

Re:Cache

[mattyrobinson69]

>>Vapourware?

so thats not where the new doom went missing to then? Its got to be around somewhere....

Re:Cache

[MC_Cancer_Pants]

One thing i've always liked about the Beastie Boys were their technological edge. I find your claims to be highly unfounded and based upon a few songs you heard back in the 80s.

Re:Cache

[D4MO]

Soooo.... despite the Conservatives best intentions, the UK is in Europe. Anyway. It only takes one CD. Quick check Kazaa, hmm 500+ matches. Idiots, when will they learn?

Re:Cache

[GumphMaster]

...sets up an audio player into the users RAM (not hard drive) to playback the RED book audio on the disk.

The technology does activate a proprietary Macrovision player in order to play the CD on a PC, and that player converts WMA compressed files to audio on the fly.

Apart from the obvious self-contradiction (Red Book audio is uncompressed stereo, while WMA compressed files clearly are not) doesn't this serve as an admission of deceptive trading practices? They are presenting the disc in a form that implies a certain quality level in the reproduction but actually delivering something less: compressed audio.

Re:Cache

[rkaa]

2. The disk *IS* copy controlled in Europe - which is standard policy for all Capitol/EMI titles (and a policy used by ALL major labels in Europe).

Not quite true. I just purchased a copy from amazon.co.uk:
They don't retail the EMI version at all, but a label named "Parlophone" instead. I'll get back to it if it turns out to be un-playable on Linux.

Amazon's german counterpart, amazon.de, DO retail an EMI version however, under the Capitol label.

Re:Cache

[Teun]

1. There is NO copy controlled software on US or UK releases of Beastie Boys' "To the 5 Boroughs."

2. The disk *IS* copy controlled in Europe - which is standard policy

Oh, you mean the UK is not Europe?
Yep, the next sentence proves this guy doesn't have a clue about geography.

the same technology being used for the past several months around the world for all of EMI's releases in those territories

Love to hear what else there is between 'around the world' and 'those territories'.

Re:Cache

[rkaa]

Oops. Seems "Parlophone" is a division of EMI Records. Amazon.co.uk are just not polite enough to inform about it. Amazon.de are more informative and state that "Capitol (EMI)" is the label.

Re:Cache

[Tokerat]

This Macrovision technology does NOT install spyware or vaporware of any kind on a users PC.

...although if it did, that would be a neat trick, indeed.
(lollerskates)

Re:Cache

[Ilgaz]

Funny, I just learned the fact that UK and USA cds aren't copy protected.

Flamebait me or whatever moderators, as a guy owning 2 of those copy protected cds which froze my mac eventually, I feel like those companies shout at my face "You are a potential THIEF from second class world"

Re:Cache

[FuzzyBad-Mofo]

Any rap group that includes a lyric like, "We're the scientists of sound; we're mathematically puttin' it down", is alright in my book!

However, copy protection is lame, in any format. I realize that this is from the label, not the Beasties themselves, but surely the negative press they're receiving from this incident more than offsets any greater profits from the DRM technology?

Re:Cache

[setmajer]

Oh, you mean the UK is not Europe?

Nope. Check a map. It's an island (well, a few islands and part of another...) off the coast of Europe (and some other territories scattered about here and there).

Here in the UK people use 'Europe' to mean the continent proper, and most defintely do not generally think of themselves as part of it.

The UK is part of the EU, but hasn't adopted the euro and maintains a profound ambivalence towards the EU.

So referring to the UK as distinct from 'Europe' is entirely proper.

Re:Cache

[ScrewMaster]

To quote Captain Kirk: "Well, there's no accounting for taste."

Re:Cache

[Antaeus Feldspar]

I find it to be based on the fact that they're using terms completely differently than actual technical people do. They're claiming they don't install "vaporware" and I wonder what the hell they think that means, since by the definition everyone else uses, if it actually exists and can be installed, it isn't vaporware. In one sentence they say the CD puts the audio player into RAM. We here in the industry call that "loading" the software, cousin. They apparently don't, however, because by the end of the paragraph they claim they "load no software".

I find your claims that the claims of whoever wrote this being a confused technical ignoramus trying to say what pacifies people whether or not it's true being unfounded are unfounded, since there certainly is foundation for the assertion.

My personal feeling on this, BTW? When I buy a music CD, I am buying data. I would be extremely pissed-off if, when I got it home, I discovered that what they put inside the package instead was their code to access the data that I bought, because why exactly am I going to trust their code?

Not much of a response

[Sebby]

"The server is too busy at the moment. Please try again later."

So I guess they really have no real counter-arguments.

Interesting...

Conversely...

[Anonymous Coward]

Who cares about the latest Indigo Girls or Outkast album?

Everyone has different musical tastes. Why is it "better" to like some indie band over, say, Britney Spears? If person A gets the same enjoyment from listening to Britney Spears as person B does from listening to Indigo Girls, what is the fucking problem? People like what they like, even when it is what the RIAA tells them to like.

Bills defining a virus, and making this illegal.

[DMUTPeregrine]

S.2145 In comitte, hearings held. S.2131 Status: Referred to Senate committe. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committe on Commerce, Science, and Transportation. H.R.4255 The Computer Software Privacy and Control Act. Status: Referred to the Subcommitte on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security. S.563 The Computer Owner's Bill of Rights These bills, if passed, would make such programs illegal. YAY!

Step ...

[oO Peeping Tom Oo]

Step 2: Create a program to automatically press shift when CDA is detected. Sell it to clueless end users.

Who Cares?

[nurb432]

Well apparently enough people still care to buy the garbage that is being put out, or they wouldnt still be making billions a year..

That said, im not one of those 'people'.

I dont think as of yet, the 'general public' really gives a damn about drm, or the quality of what they are purchasing. Yet.

Re:You gotta fight for your right

[obey13]

First off, I totally agree with you about the stalness of the vast majority of music produced by the major labels, but I think in the grand scheme its beside the point.

While you and I arent running out to buy the new beastie boys album, many people are. They have the right to fair use. The beastie boys and the labels are dnying that right.

I know I'm just complaining without offering a solution, but no matter how crappy we think the state of music is just not buying it is not the solution.

makes mp3's just fine.

[blade8086]

My girlfriend bought the CD for me the other week much to my
happy surprise ..

saw the note on the back, and was a little worried I'd have to install windows to run it..

so:

First thing I did was pop it in my gentoo box and run
'rip' ..

cddb + mp3 conversion worked just fine thank you very much.

http://www.gnu.org/directory/audio/rip/rip.html

Re:Damn fool DRM & how to circumvent it

[Chris Tucker]

That's not the point.

The point is circumventing the DRM that keeps people from playing the CD they bought as they see fit, be it on a computer or an iPod.

Fuck the Beastie Boys for allowing DRM of ANY kind on ANY of their CDs.

Re:Damn fool DRM & how to circumvent it

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

It wasn't their choice. The Label puts the same DRM on all cds that go to the same regions as this one.

Available at www.allofmp3.com

[davebarnes]

A wonderful music download site (www.allofmp3.com) has this new album available for download in the format and bit rate of your choice.

Prices range from $0.03 to $0.30 USD per song.

So much for DRM attempts.

Re:Available at www.allofmp3.com

[Fweeky]

$0.567 for a lossless copy of the longest track -- about a third of the price of a 128kbps DRM crippled AAC from iTunes UK.

Re:Available at www.allofmp3.com

[Have Blue]

The legality of this site is hazy (at the very least), so it may not be the best choice if you're trying to avoid piracy for philosophical reasons.

Re:Available at www.allofmp3.com

[mbourgon]

It's even listed under "Top Best Sellers"! *ROFL*

Re:You gotta fight for your right

[carou]

My main bitch with DRM CDs is that it might make it more difficult to rip legally purchased music to my hard drive. I don't even own a standalone CD player these days, and I want to be able to load my library on an iPod.

In that case, buy it on the iTunes music store. Cheaper, too.

Re:You gotta fight for your right

[nzkbuk]

I wonder if www.allofmp3.com has it yet. They seem to be cheaper than itunes

Re:Damn fool DRM & how to circumvent it

[Chris Tucker]

They do have a choice. They can say "NO! No more music from us for your company!"

If you're willing to accept the consequences of saying "NO!", it's the most powerful word in any language.

Fuck the cowardly Beastie Boys!

Re:Damn fool DRM & how to circumvent it

[Anonymous Coward]

If I remember correctly someone was being done under the DMCA in america for telling people to hold down the shift key when putting CD's into their windows PC's.

Either that or turn autorun off.

Under OSX it mounts the disk twice. 1st for the redbook music 2nd for the data portion.

Re:You gotta fight for your right

[proj_2501]

"If you want some good music, go look for it on Kazaa where there isn't a problem with DRM. Then go out and support those bands you like."

Most of my favorite music is available mostly on vinyl only.

No problems with DRM there. :)

Dear God it installed Duke Nukem Forever!!!!!

[Imazalil]

Run for the Hills! Hell's freezing over! I inserted the cd, and after fifteen minutes of odd stuff going on an Icon appeared on my desktop.

I double clicked it thinking that this is the fancy sopy protection and I needed to do this to play the music, but no my friends, it turns out to be Duke Forever! And they beat Half Life 2 & Doom 3 to market!!

ok, fine, this didn't really happen, but hey, watch out next time something promises to install vaporware.

Im.

Re:You gotta fight for your right

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

Actually their new album is quite good. Atleast you know where they're coming from. Their lyrics reflect their politics. Which i think is right on.

The new album has some very good songs. The beasties are perhaps a little more innocent in style compared to todays "i'm a big rich mother fucker driving a bentley" rap. Frankly that stuff is so sickening. The fantasy world the fans of that shit live in, is simply put... tragic.

The Beasties are as real as it gets and so what they have an older style.... Its still pretty dam good. They leave the audience feeling good, rather than worshiping the $ like a false god, only to go home to their lower-middle class lives, pretending that they're jay-z. Yeah that gets you far in life.

As for outkast, i never got how people love those guys. Someone in the record industry gave me their latest cd and i felt like a fag listening to it :) I'm sorry the whole first cd is a ballad to women.

The second disc is more of the same, except for a song or two.

I give Outkast credit for being differernt... but from an audience point of view... the music's really fem.

I don't blame them

[mabu]

Think about it. The Beastie Boys have consistently produced such mindless, anti-musical, derivative, unoriginal material, the prospect of gathering information on the demographics of their fans is quote provacative. This is a unique opportunity to further study an elusive group that seems to have absolutely no taste in music.

Re:I don't blame them

[irokitt]

Someone seems to be confusing the Beastie Boys with the Backstreet Boys...

Re:You gotta fight for your right

[lordkuri]

yup

-lk

Question

[Amorpheus_MMS]

1. There is NO copy controlled software on US or UK releases of Beastie Boys' "To the 5 Boroughs."

2. The disk *IS* copy controlled in Europe - which is standard policy for all

Why is it that Europeans get the DRM disks and US/UK get regular ones?

Re:Question

[Anonymous Coward]

You Americans get the unprotected version to ensure that any illegal copies can be tried and convicted under American law. Where a 30.000.000 dollar claim is standard, instead of (for instance) Dutch law where there's a maximum penalty of 1500 euro (1600 something in dollars).

Re:Question

[Kiryat Malachi]

Options:

1) They're punishing you for being godless commies.

2) We protected you from the red menace for so long, this is our payoff.

3) English is just a naturally superior language; as a result, English speakers don't deserve DRM.

4) French people. Enough said.

5) George W Bush threatened to nuke EMI if they didn't keep "those godless Eurotrash from pirating our hard-earned American IP".

6) Barbara Boxer threatened to sue EMI if they didn't keep "those wonderful European scamps from pirating the music industries rightfully earned profits".

7) Orrin Hatch's head exploded; as a result, the US no longer has to deal with stupid copy protection efforts.

8) French people.

9) Specifically to piss off the Europeans; I mean, that's what American corporations live for, right?

10) They think if they make the scheme illogical enough, all the computer nerds who pirate their music will have their brains ignite in a collective bonfire of confusion.

(laugh, its supposed to be funny)

Re:Question

[BrianCarlstrom]

1. There is NO copy controlled software on US or UK releases of Beastie Boys' "To the 5 Boroughs."

2. The disk *IS* copy controlled in Europe - which is standard policy for all

Why is it that Europeans get the DRM disks and US/UK get regular ones?

And when did the UK leave the continent of Europe?

Re:Question

[BlacKat]

"And when did the UK leave the continent of Europe?"

When it broke off the continent and became an island perhaps? ;)

Re:Question

[/dev/trash]

My guess. It's a EU related thing. Is the UK fully a member of the EU?

Re:Question

[cranos]

When it broke off the continent and became an island perhaps? ;)

I guess that makes Manhatten Island seperate from the Continental US.

Disable autoplay

[gad_zuki!]

I made a .reg file for XP/2000 machines.

I have no use for autoplay and having the OS execute a binary on insertion is a ridiculous security hole.

I believe this will require a reboot for both XP and 2000.

Re:Disable autoplay

[bloo9298]

Yikes. Do you know whether the code is executed in the user's logon session or the system logon session?

Re:Disable autoplay

[Ilgaz]

Don't do such favors, it will cause headache.

Some guy will install that .reg file, he will eventually do some stupid thing such as opening a mail attachment or running a malware and he will mail you instantly.

No kidding, it happens...

The is divided into data and audio

[Mustang Matt]

The data side has an autorun and is loaded with some wma files.

Just grab the audio side like normal.

Re:The is divided into data and audio

[kryptkpr]

ISOBuster is my software of choice, for when you just need to access the CDROM directly (under Windows). I haven't yet come across a copy protection it hasn't "defeated".

Check Your Head

[yoshi_mon]

I want to say to Jimmy James that I'm rather mad at the "vaporware" that is not being installed on my box.

My Funky Boss is not happy about it either because when I tried to listen to my new CD on my computer at work it hosed it up.

I had to Pass the Mic to my admin who told me I needed to read /. more often so I would know these things.

But I did have some Gratitude for other artists who take a stand with their recording companys unlike the BBoys are doing now apparently.

Their website told me to Lighten Up but I still don't think they are being honest with me.

Other CD's are Finger Licking Good because the are real but I guess they forgot that when they made this one.

So Whatcha Want is a real CD and not this one.

The Biz vs the Nudge was a grudge match between DRM and Fair Use, we are still waiting to see who will win.

Time For Livin is right now, if you are real about your music BBoys stand up to your label and speak some truth.

Something's Got to Give and it will; SCO will fall and MS will have to find a new shill.

The Blue Nun does not even like the DRM on her box.

Stand Together beacuse if we refuse these DRM crippled systems they will stop selling them.

POW in your mouth for messing with us.

The Maestro told me that I could disable this DRM by holding down a shift key but he was sent away for being a "terrorist".

Groove Holmes also was suspect but he is told them he's voteing for Bush this year so they let him go.

Live at PJ's was recorded and distributed via Kazaa, increaseing record sales, but the RIAA still sued them.

I Mark the Bus with instructions on how to defeat the DRM on the new BBoys album so all my homies can see it.

Professor Booty is working on a way to defeat people who "steal" all that music by singing on their own but I hear it's not going very well.

In 3's, #1 damn this album has a lot of tracks, #2 I though I could respect the BBoys but I'm not so sure now, #3 if you have read all this your more wacked than Mike D.

I had to bend over for Namaste so he could install the DRM in my...

Uh...no

[bonch]

"Undesired effect" is a subjective definition. Enforcement of DRM isn't inherently bad whatsoever. It's when the consumer isn't told about it.

Compare to Velvet Revolver's CD--there's a big silver sticker that tells you it's copy-protected for computers. You know going into it.

I think you're stretching it here to try to equate this to a bad buzzword like "trojan."

Re:Uh...no

[Lord Kano]

Enforcement of DRM isn't inherently bad whatsoever. It's when the consumer isn't told about it.

I'm sure that we will all agree that the DVDCA informed the public that DVDs were encrypted so that their content could be controlled. I'm also sure that most of us will agree that it was a bad thing when they invoked the DMCA to prevent people from developing a Linux DVD Player.

DRM is evil. It's an attempt to control when, where and how you can enjoy the content that you've paid to access.

LK

Re:Uh...no

[bonch]

DRM is evil. It's an attempt to control when, where and how you can enjoy the content that you've paid to access.

And if you look on the flipside of that token, DRM is great. It's an attempt to enforce, empower, and maintain the rights of the content creators to prevent their rights being trampled on by freeloaders.

See how things look when you step outside of the Slashdot bubble and look at why they're doing this? If piracy weren't so rampant, this wouldn't be an issue. And blaming the RIAA is a baseless copout.

Re:Uh...no

[asdfghjklqwertyuiop]

Enforcement of DRM isn't inherently bad whatsoever.

Yes, it is inherently bad because it tramples upon the product owner's rights to their private property and fair use.

Copyright owners are welcome to enforce their copyright, and I'm welcome to enforce my rights by cracking the DRM on the products I own. If someone is violating their copyrights, they can sue for copyright infringement.

A lot of DRM isn't about enforcing copyright anyway, it is about giving powers to copyright owners that they never had - legally or otherwise. DVD region coding for example.

Re:Uh...no

[Alsee]

Oh! Silly me! I never thought to look at why they are doing what they are doing instead of looking at what they are actually doing! That makes it OK then!

As a matter of fact I'm going to start shooting everyone I see. You see, it doesn't matter what I'm actually doing, it only matters why I'm doing it. Shooting everyong I see is an attempt to enforce, empower, and maintain my rights as a car owner to prevent my rights being trampled on by car theives. If car theft weren't so rampant, this wouldn't be an issue. And blaming me for shooting people is a baseless copout.

If they want to "enforce DRM" against copyright infringers (car theives), well OK. But they have no more right to "enforce DRM" against innocent and non-infringing people than I have to shoot people who are not stealing my car!

-

Re:Uh...no

[Lord Kano]

See how things look when you step outside of the Slashdot bubble and look at why they're doing this?

I don't give a fuck why they're doing it. Every CD I buy gets ripped and encoded to MP3 before the first time I listen to it. My use of ripping software is perfectly legitimate. Once again, I don't give a fuck about what the "bad people" are doing.

If piracy weren't so rampant, this wouldn't be an issue. And blaming the RIAA is a baseless copout.

You sound like all of those hoplophobes who want to take away MY gun rights because of the actions of a few violent criminals.

LK

Re:Uh...no

[racermd]

I'm pretty sure you've got your example bass-akwards. A more accurate representation (using the car analogies everyone loves so much) could be worded like so:

I remove the (not so) secret sensor on my car that prevents me from driving for free on what would ordinarily be toll roads for the rest of the public. Sure, there are cars that you can purchase legally without the sensor mounted, but why would I want one? They're so much more expensive?

Actually, I partially agree with your point. Even casual copying for purposes of distribution to your friends and/or family isn't entirely legal. However, the industry is going about prevention *completely* wrong. DRM isn't the solution, it's only a small hurdle that we'll get over within minutes.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: "Make the music cheap, yet valueable enough to purchase, and people will buy it". Make it convenient, cheap, and add just enough extras so people will *want* to purchase it. Stop using just the stick, and attach the carrot - it will work better for all parties in the long run.

Re:Uh...no

[Waffle Iron]

And if you look on the flipside of that token, DRM is great. It's an attempt to enforce, empower, and maintain the rights of the content creators to prevent their rights being trampled on by freeloaders.

Do you seriously think that even one single freeloader anywhere on the planet has been thwarted from downloading a Velvet Revolver track by this scheme? All this has achieved is to install one more piece of bloatware onto millions of computers. That, and force you to agree to an additional EULA before playing the CD on your computer, which negates the long established principle of first sale.

Just think how great it will be when every CD comes with its own unique DRM scheme fighting over your CD-ROM and audio settings, or whatever other secret crap they try to pull in your system. And the DMCA will make it illegal to attempt to fix your computer once it has been hosed by all of these bug-ridden trojans.

Re:Uh...no

[C0rinthian]

Undesired effect is not subjective. It is not implying a negative or positive effect. (which IS subjective) It is simply saying an effect that is not desired.

The sticking point is who determines what is undesirable, the content producer, or the consumer.

Of course, I'm sure the effects of your typical trojan are quite desirable to the trojan's writer. So if we're drawing comparisons, then the recipient of the "product" is the one who determines if it's effects are desirable or not.

Re:Uh...no

[harkabeeparolyn]

Saying something is copy protected is not the same as saying I'm going to run a program on your computer if you put this disc in it. Because the two operations of (1) playing media and (2) running a program were made indistinguishable by the cretins at Microsoft, users ended up launching all those fucking viruses that have plagued the net for the last five years. And now we have a so-called legitimate industry taking advantage of the same sort of thing to install crippleware.

I think we ought to take every opportunity to screw these guys with their pants on, because there is nothing they won't stoop to. And every copy of that quisling Windows operating system ought to be chopped into razor-sharp flechettes and fired into Gates' and Ballmer's writhing bodies.

Re:Uh...no

[mrchaotica]

The analogy still isn't right. It's more like removing the sensor because the toll booth violates your fair-use of the road - i.e., the toll is illegal.

(however, letting everyone else use your car actually is illegal)

Re:Uh...no

[Alsee]

like so:
I remove the (not so) secret sensor on my car that prevents me from driving for free on what would ordinarily be toll roads for the rest of the public.

Exactly. Nothing wrong with that unless you go and illegally drive on a toll road. *If* you do that then you go to jail for illegally driving on toll road.

As I said they have absolutely no right to "enforce DRM" against someone who is not infringing (someone NOT driving on a toll road).

why would I want one?

That sensor prevents you from driving around on your own farm. That sensor prevents you from hooking the engine up to a generator during a blackout.

Hell, the sensor even prevents you from PAINTING your car a different color. Or installing seat covers. Or removing the floormats. Without defeating the DRM it is impossible to alter a song in any way whatsoever without destroying the file itself.

They're so much more expensive?

Adding the sensor/DRM *adds* cost to the product. In addition to all the extra effort they need to put it in and lost sales, they have to pay a licencing fee for each copy.

Even casual copying for purposes of distribution to your friends and/or family isn't entirely legal.

Please stand by while I scream:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!
Ahe m. That's better. Pardon me.

It just gets rather frustrating when when I say innocent and non-infringing people and it almost inevitably gets IGNORED.

The defence of DRM constantly comes back to simply ignoring innocent non-infringing people and pointing at some badguy. Go ahead an point at some badguy all you like, or even some maybe not-so-badguy. Go ahead and put some badguy in prison if you like. That is still not an answer when I point out that the DMCA criminalizes innocent and good people.

I am talking about absolutely 100% legitimate legal and non-infringing activities. Whether "distributing a copy to your mother" is infringing or not is irrelevent. I am talking about innocent people and non-infringing activities. Ordinary home fair use. Teachers. Scientists. Librarians.

The American Library Association is one of the biggest opponents of DMCA DRM enforcment exactly because it criminalizes absolutely innocent and non-infringing activities.

-

Not really

[FreeSoftwareZealot]

Note that the CD isn't actually "copy-controlled" according to EMI. Not the CD that hit the Billboard #1, anyway.

That's spin.

What do I care?

[dilweed]

I've already downloaded my copy. :)

Re:What do I care?

[Shai-kun]

I downloaded it just because of the DRM. Turned out I don't even like the album.

Re:You gotta fight for your right

[Cheerio Boy]

I know I'm just complaining without offering a solution, but no matter how crappy we think the state of music is just not buying it is not the solution.

I think the parent poster was referring to finding Indie bands available on Kazaa.

BTW - use Kazaa Lite or something elses. There's plenty of choices out there.

All I have to say is...

[bXTr]

Oh my God, that's some funky shit!!!

Most importantly...

[NumbThumb]

This Macrovision technology does NOT install spyware or vaporware of any kind on a users PC (emphasis mine)

Those marketing-drones really have no clue what they are talking about... vaporware can, by definition, not be installed.

Re:Most importantly...

[Jesus_666]

Those marketing-drones really have no clue what they are talking about... vaporware can, by definition, not be installed.

Which means that indeed no vaporware is installed. The droids are obviously right.

Re:Most importantly...

[Alsee]

vaporware can, by definition, not be installed.

Sure it can!
Just only on the Phantom game console.

-

Re:Most importantly...

[Alsee]

Maybe I'm attributing to malice that which can reasonably be explained by stupidity, but I think the writer *did* know exactly what he was saying. I think he was a condecending jackass ridiculing us for complaining about their "innocent" little peice of malware.

The response just served to piss me off even further.

-

Re:Most importantly...

[siliconjunkie]

Neither can "Silverware" or "Ladies wear".

Re:Most importantly...

[Sir Holo]

...vaporware, underwear, etc...,

Well, they had to have a list of what it doesn't install in order to distract the reader. To get that they needed some filler, because saying that it doesn't install DRM-ware would be an outright lie (versus the lie of omission they chose).

Bypassing Velvet Revolver

[bonch]

I'd like a copy of Velvet Revolver. But I won't buy it until I can find a copy on the used market. If the entire Slashdot world quit buying CDs, it would hardly make a dent (not that Slashdotters *always* pay for their music). But it's the principle of the whole thing.

Velvet Revolver's copy-protection consists of nothing more than a driver that's loaded when you click "I Agree" to the Autorun popup that installs a driver that detects when Velvet Revolver is the CD that's inserted and screws with the read operations.

Solutions? Just disable Autorun or hold Shift when you insert the CD. Presto. And if you've already accepted the license agreement and installed that driver, go to Device Manager, select Show Hidden Devices and Devices By Connection in the View menu, and stop the driver and set it to "Disabled." Presto.

For the record, the new Beastie Boys record kicks absolute ass. The grandparent post sounds like just some old fogie who things The Who is still a kick-ass, relevant band. The niche opinions of Slashdotters don't represent the majority of music opinion. Like you said, the record debuted at #1. Velvet Revolver did, too--knocking Avril Lavigne to #2. All bands I'm sure the grandparent just thinks are oh-so-shitty. Since his opinion is law and represents everyone, right?

Re:Bypassing Velvet Revolver

[kitzilla]

I'm running OS X and believe the DRM won't install if you disable autorun in the Classic Quicktime player (simple enough). I don't have Classic on this machine, so it shouldn't be an issue.

Still ...

If Velvet Revolver can hold itself together, they could end up being an important band. What a lineup. As for the Beasties, they show up Limp Bizkit as the wannabes they are. I'm just disappointed they tolerate the record business' heavy-handed attempt at meddling with our machines.

I'm not against all DRM, and I do not swap music files. Apple's licensing, for instance, seems reasonable for my needs. Maybe the record companies could license Apple's technology and make it possible to rip CDs through iTunes. Apple would broker the transaction and be rebated a dime or so by the label for each transaction. That would take care of all the iPod owners (and at least half of all portable music devices).

Gotta take slight issue with you on the Who. They were the Beastie Boys of their era. Sure, "My Generation" sounds a bit quaint now. But it was incendiary then, and the Beasties are in the Who's debt.

Re:Damn fool DRM & how to circumvent it

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

Contracts are contracts. They could either put their CD out as the label wants it, or spend millions of dollars and probably years of legal maneuvering to try to get out of their contract. They did what they thought was right at the time, and I don't understand why you're so hostile towards them for it.

Re:PREPARE TO BE MODERATED DOWN!

[BroncoInCalifornia]

Sometime semantics is important. Spinners for the record companies use the word "theft" for IP infringement because it carries more emotional heft. From this I conclude the record companies do not want us to think rationaly about this.

For those of you getting busy errors.

[dopefish3]

TT5B Copy Control Issues
Jun 22, 2004 - 1:40 pm By BeastieBoys.com
1. There is NO copy controlled software on US or UK releases of Beastie Boys' "To the 5 Boroughs."

2. The disk *IS* copy controlled in Europe - which is standard policy for all
Capitol/EMI titles (and a policy used by ALL major labels in Europe).

3. The copy protection system used for all EMI/Capitol releases including "To the 5 Boroughs" is Macrovision's CDS-200, which sets up an audio player into the users RAM (not hard drive) to playback the RED book audio on the disk. It does absolutely NOT install any kind of spyware, shareware, silverware, or ladies wear onto the users system.

You can find more information on the technology used here:
http://www.macrovision.com/products/cds/cds 200/ind ex.shtml

This is what EMI has to say about it:
Reports that "spyware" is being included on the Beastie Boy's CD, 'To The Five Boroughs' are absolutely untrue.

While the Beastie Boys CD does use copy control in some territories, there is no copy control on the Beasties Boys discs in the US or the UK. Where copy protection is used, it is Macrovision's CDS-200 technology; the same technology being used for the past several months around the world for all of EMI's releases in those territories. This Macrovision technology does NOT install spyware or vaporware of any kind on a users PC. In fact, CDS-200 does not install software applications of ANY KIND on a user's PC. All the copy protection in CDS-200 is hardware based, meaning that it is dependent on the physical properties and the format of the CD. None of the copy protection in CDS-200 requires software applications to be loaded onto a computer.

The technology does activate a proprietary Macrovision player in order to play the CD on a PC, and that player converts WMA compressed files to audio on the fly. It also temporarily installs a graphic "skin" for the player. Nothing is permanently installed on a hard drive. These details can be verified in the 'install.log' file in the computer's root directory.

Re:You gotta fight for your right

[kitzilla]

Thought of that (and I like the iTunes store). But I'm really hooked on Apple's lossless codec. Sounds *much* better to me, and iTunes downloads are all 160kbps AAC.

I'm not dissing the iTunes store -- I have a lot of their music. But I prefer the option of a high-quality rip.

Allofmp3.com to the rescue.

[Anonymous Coward]

Random Techie will surely appreciate the fact that both iTunes [can't get link] and allofmp3 carry it. I'm positive he also knows that, in the case of the latter, it's available in virtually any format known to man, so that he can listen to it in his 10^-3 marketshare OS.

Re:I don't mind too much

[gnu-generation-one]

"As long as DRM stays locked in the tealm of crap music, I don't mind. As soon as DRM cripples something of quality, then I'll be a sad clown."

Does it matter? Look at the label. It says "EMI".

Look at the press release. It says "The disk *IS* copy controlled in Europe - which is standard policy for all Capitol/EMI titles"

Look at the list of EMI artists

Please avoid buying music from the following bands:

112, Paula Abdul, Adema, Air Control, Damon Albarn, Lee Alexander, Jerel Allen, Marshall Altman, Amen, Keith Andes, Deric Angeletti, Ron Aniello, Ira Antelis, Angie Aparo, Craig Armstrong, Aslyn, At The Drive-In, Dallas Austin, Avalanches, Avenged Sevenfold, The B-52's, Anders Bagge, Tony Banks, Travis Barker, Jimmy Barnes, John Barry, Alejandro Bassi, Battlecat, Rick Beato, Victoria Beckham, Beenie Man, Howard Benson, Eddie Berkeley, Bigpockets, BLM, Black Lab, Grant Black, Bleu, Blur, Shauna Bolton, Simon Boswell, James Bradshaw, Necia Bray, Breech, Danielle Brisebois, Meredith Brooks, Nick Brophy, Kerry Brothers Jr., Jocelyn Brown, Livingstone Brown, Bubba Sparxxx, Budda, Brooks Buford, Kate Bush, Busted, Ryan Cabrera, Café Tacuba, Joi Campbell, Gil Cang, Luciana Caporaso, Benny Cassette, Cannibal Corpse, Belinda Carlisle, Sue Ann Carwell, Caviar, Caviar (Kannon Cross), Guy Chambers, Tracy Chapman, Melanie C, Clem Snide, Jay Clifford, Citizen Cope, City High, Carlyton K.K. Clanton, The Clipse, Phil Collins, Armando Colon, Melvin Saint Nick Coleman, Sean P. Diddy Combs, Harry Connick Jr., Bernadette Cooper, Coral, Counting Crows, Deborah Cox, Graham Coxon, Shondrae Crawford, Kenneth Crouch, The Crystal Method, Curt & Bob, D-12, Da Brat, LeShawn Daniels, Danny D, Danny P, Terence Trent D'Arby (aka Sananda Maitreya), N'Dea Davenport, Iva Davies, John Deacon, Default, Darrell De-Lite Allamby, Cathy Dennis, Depeche Mode, Josh Deutsch, Chris Difford, Kara Dioguardi, Dirty Vegas, Divinyls, Antonio Dixon, DJ Clue & Duro, DJ Jazzy Jeff, DJ Sheats, DJ Skribble, Johnny Dollar (aka Johnny Sharp), The Donnas, Doves, Terrance Dudley, Jerry Duplessis, Jermaine Dupri, Paul Durham, Ms. Dynamite, Tim Easton, JB Eckl, Jason Edmonds, Fil Eisler, Electric Soft Parade, Enya, Eristopher, Michelle Escoffery, Marquez Etheridge, Fabolous, Ricky Fante, The Federation, John Feldmann, Fergie, Filter, Fish, Five For Fighting, The Flaming Lips, Flaw, Flick, Keith Flint, Foo Fighters, Foster & McElroy, Amy Foster Gillies, Andrew Frampton, Giuliano Franco, Justine Frischmann, Fundisha, Sia Furler, Nelly Furtado, Julian Gallagher, James Gass (pka Pro-Jay), Gem, Antony Genn, Goo Goo Dolls, Good Charlotte, Missy Gibson, Howard Goodall, Qur'an Goodman, Karl Gordon (pka K-Gee), Martin Gore, Gorillaz, Graham Gouldman, George Green, Pat Green, Paul L. Green, Steve Greenberg, Greenwheel, Geri Halliwell, Ashley Hamilton, Ed Harcourt, Jeremy Harding, Ben Harper, Rich Harrison, Tammie L. Harris, Terry Harris, David Harrow (aka James Hardway) (aka Technova), Jimmy Harry, Paul Heard, Heavy D, Alex Heffes, Chris Henderson, Michael Henry, Vincent Herbert, Reynada Hill, Rupert Hine, Hod David, Hot Karl, Felix Howard, James Newton Howard, Liam Howlett, Mick Hucknall, Van Hunt, Angela Hunte, Chrissie Hynde, Icehouse, Idlewild, Enrique Iglesias, Ill Nino, Ima Robot, Incubus, Indigo Girls, J-Dub, J-Kwon, J-Praize, Jagged Edge, Jam & Lewis, Janet Jackson, Alex James, Jamiroquai, Jay-Z, Lemarquis Jefferson, Rodney Jerkins, Jewel, JIVEjones, Jodeci, Damon Johnson, Puff Johnson, Norah Jones, Theresa Jones, Tyrice Jones, Maurice Joshua, Kandi, Shawn Kane, Guyora Kats, Dave Katz, Jay Kay, KB & Spec, KC-I & Jo Jo, Kelis, Dave Kelly, Tom Kelly, Kenna, Alicia Keys, Stephen Kipner, Jack Knight, Savan Kotecha, Lenny Kravitz, Krucial, Jack Kugell, Ty Lacy, Eritza Laues, Patrick Leonard, Paul Leonard-Morgan, Andres Levin, Keri Lewis, LG, Libertines, Dave Lichens, Harold Lilly, David Lindsey, Lit, Angel Lopez, Lo-Pro, Lostpro

Oh, vaporware that turned my PC into vapor ??

[freaker_TuC]

The full comment what happened to my pc is available here and I am still not happy with it ....

I wonder why I deserved my CD-ROM drive not to be working anymore because I have tried to copy my friends legal-bought CD to the Archos of him.

I can't read anything anymore through the CD-ROM drive, no data and no audio cd's, nothing works since I have inserted the new Beasty Boys CD.

I am really starting to get annoyed since this means a complete re-install of that PC which I do not have the time (or money) for. A lot of data is on backup but also a lot of data (my vinyl and protected CD's ripped to WAV format) will be lost after this re-install.

These copyprotections are taking more time than I have; to be even more specific, certain CD's like Solid Sounds I need to rip manually to be able to USE this CD in my older car cd player and pro Denon DJ CD player!!! Since I am DJ and using vinyl and CD's a lot I find this unacceptable.

Is this copyprotection a convenience only for the record company or should the audio CD be a convenience for the listener? Where's the time you put in the CD in your favorite cd player you like to listen to the music you like ? The time of putting your cd in your car cdplayer, cd-rom drive or professional CD player is over and it's only getting worse, looking to this example of the latest CD I tried to rip for my friend.

I used to buy 2 to 5 cd's a month, since I am not sure anymore which cd's work or not I started buying more vinyl again, but hell, I do not want to buy ANY releases of the same producers that cripple the audio CD's I have bought for 20 EURO or more!

The recording industry has lost at least 600 EURO last year only because I do not want to buy or use cd's anymore.. what's the use to buy a cd if I can't use it?

I have built up a nice record collection of +30000 vinyl records and +2000 cd's. Probably the collection of my cd's will not be updated anymore as protest to this kind of behavior towards the consumer. I currently have about 62 cd's of the last 2 years that I cannot use at all unless I rip it and copy it. This is about 1200 EURO/$ I have lost because I cannot use them as DJ.

This will conclude the recording industry will not get MY money of minimally 720 EURO/$ per year anymore, which I will spend on independent vinyl recording companies which are not related to the ones that cripple MY cd's I have bought with my well-deserved money.

Re:You gotta fight for your right

[jumpingfred]

Wouldn't fag music be ballads to men?

People LOVE that older style

[bonch]

It's cool to be retro. The Beastie Boys have that old 80s rap vocal sound nailed. It almost feels done on purpose, a tongue-in-cheek style that sounds great.

Like you said, better than that absolute trash ghetto rap shit.

Re:I don't mind too much

[AvantLegion]

Does it matter? Look at the label. It says "EMI".

Look at the press release. It says "The disk *IS* copy controlled in Europe - which is standard policy for all Capitol/EMI titles"

Look at the list of EMI artists

Please avoid buying music from the following bands:

(big ass list of crap "artists" cut)

Wow! I'm boycotting EMI without even trying!

#1 album

[bonch]

All those people who made the album #1 might disagree with you. Go back to listening to your Who vinyl LPs and wishing for Rush to put out another album, dork.

May I Have Your Attention:

[Sophrosyne]

Duke Nukem Forever is not installed on your machine as a result of playing this cd... Thank you, have a nice day.

A more complete article here...

[freaker_TuC]

I have made a post about this matter on my personal site ; since it's something I am quite annoyed of... It's updated to a full article/rant.
---
My soulmate wanted to rip the CD to put on his Archos Jukebox, since he is not using CD's anymore but still buys them to be legal and to have the full version.

Since I have put in the CD I can't run my company invoice system anymore, can't do anything at all with that cdrom drive, can't even play a game. Every time I put in the CD it cannot be recognized by my system.

I already tried to uninstall the software but the problem stays, which forces me to reinstall the PC completely (which I definitely don't have the time for now at the moment and will cost me days to get my invoicing and updates done).

Is this legal ? Can this be allowed ? I am literally loosing money now just because I wanted to rip that legal and bought cd for him straight to his Archos. It's not even music I like to listen to... (no offense intended to all fans around here) ...

Apparantly it is legal folks ..
CD's that demolish your PC ready to reinstall!...

I am really starting to get even more annoyed since I do not know which CD's I can even TRUST anymore without the need to re-install my PC? To stay on topic ; A lot of data is on backup but also a lot of data (my vinyl and protected CD's ripped to WAV format) will be lost after this re-install.

These copyprotections are taking more time than I have; to be even more specific, certain CD's like Solid Sounds I need to rip manually to be able to USE this CD in my older car cd player and pro Denon DJ CD player!!! Since I am DJ and using vinyl and CD's a lot I find this unacceptable. Put in this pro-DJ player and you got to wait up to 6 minutes before the CD *might* get read; which is too long for a clubDJ to mix to the next song; unless I have a 8-10 minute song running from vinyl...

Is this copyprotection a convenience only for the record company or should the audio CD be a convenience for the listener? Where's the time you put in the CD in your favorite cd player you like to listen to the music you like ? The time of putting your cd in your car cdplayer, cd-rom drive or professional CD player is over and it's only getting worse, looking to this example of the latest CD I tried to rip for my friend.

And this is not even the end, my soulmate has bought 2 other CD's, which one of them is the new Faithless CD (the other one I can't remember because we have a different taste (and yet the same) of music) and he can't rip it to use on his MP3 player *and* he can't use it on his home CD player (unreadable disks).

I used to buy 2 to 5 cd's a month, since I am not sure anymore which cd's work or not I started buying more vinyl again, but hell, I do not want to buy ANY releases of the same producers that cripple the audio CD's I have bought for 20 EURO or more!

The recording industry has lost at least 600 EURO last year only because I do not want to buy or use cd's anymore.. what's the use to buy a cd if I can't use it?

I have built up a nice record collection of +30000 vinyl records and +2000 cd's. Probably the collection of my cd's will not be updated anymore as I protest to this kind of behavior towards the consumer. I currently have about 62 cd's of the last 2 years that I cannot use at all unless I rip it and copy it. This is about 1200 EURO/$ I have lost because I cannot use them as DJ.

This will conclude the recording industry will not get MY money of minimally 720 EURO/$ per year anymore, which I will spend on independent vinyl recording companies which are not related to the ones that cripple MY cd's I have bought with my well-deserved money which I pay my taxes on.

For so far my rant ... for the ones that care ; I started to care a lot since I have lost my cd-rom drive on a very mysterious way

Re:A more complete article here...

[TheRaven64]

Is this legal ? Can this be allowed ? I am literally loosing money now just because I wanted to rip that legal and bought cd for him straight to his Archos. It's not even music I like to listen to... (no offense intended to all fans around here)

In the UK, this would not be legal. We have something called the Computer Misuse Act, which prohibits the use of a computer without the knowledge and consent of the owner. Your jurisdiction probably has something similar. My suggestion is this:

Reinstall the system, and take a full backup. Reinsert the CD to demonstrate that the problem is reproducible and verifiable. Ideally film this. Restore your system from the backup, and continue working. Work out how much you have lost earnings as a result of this, including the cost of the time you spent reinstalling at full charge-out rate.

If the amount you have lost is less than the limit allowed for the small claims court, sue them for this amount there. They probably won't show up (it would cost them a lot more) and so you win by default. For an added bonus, sell this story to the national press.

If the small claims court is not an option, then hire a decent lawyer and sue them. Don't forget to add any court time you are forced to spend to the amount you claim for. Again, sell this story to the press (it will act as insurance. If they win, then the public backlash will almost certainly cost them more than if they settled).

Re:A more complete article here...

[Incadenza]

I used to buy 2 to 5 cd's a month

[snip]

I have built up a nice record collection of +30000 vinyl records and +2000 cd's.

2 - 5 cd's a month = 24 - 60 cd's a year.
This means it would take 33 to 83 years to build up a collection of 2000 cd's. If you rant, please try to get your numbers straight.

Re:A more complete article here...

[freaker_TuC]

Not to mention that I have a lot of CD's I buy in bulk from DJ's and second hand ; I mean with this that I buy 2 to 5 *NEW* cd's a month, fresh CD's.

HP trademark

[Firethorn]

the letters HP aren't trademarked, a number of computer products starting with 'HP' are, but HP isn't. What's trademarked is the graphical 'HP', the rectangle with a circle cut out, with the slanted 'HP' in the circle.

It would be easy to set up a HP feed company if I wanted too. I would just have a hard time calling a computer 'HP workstation'.

Re:HP trademark

[RALE007]

You could set up a Microsoft feed company if you wanted to and it wouldn't violate trademark law. However, I never said one would violate trademark law by trademarking a feed company with the same trademark as that of computer related company.

The graphical hp logo is trademarked, and it is a violation of trademark law to mislead the consumer with a similar representation. Any representation within the computer related field of the letter h followed by p, with or without the circle cut out or in a different font etc. would be considered misleading the consumer and violating hp's trademark if it were used by any other computer related company in the industry.

Get the quote right!

[Anonymous Coward]

"I did not have sex with that woman."

It's "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky." ;)

Re:I don't mind too much

[Anonymous Coward]

I bit of a modification of Pastor Martin Niemöller's quote, but it shows why if someone is doing something wrong we should speak out, even if it doesn't hurt us (yet).

First they came for Rap
and I did not speak out
because I did not like Rap.
Then they came for Pop
and I did not speak out
because I did not like Pop.
Then they came for Country
and I did not speak out
because I did not like Country.
Then they came for my favorites
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

C'mon folks!

[callipygian-showsyst]

This is the Beastie Boys!

Now, if Barbra STREISAND DRM'ed her disks, I'd be upset!

And you didn't bother to show her the RIAA radar?

[MacDork]

You forgot to show her how to avoid giving the RIAA money at all... You're heart seems to be in the right place, but next time this happens, show them iTunes + RIAA radar. For those that want free, send 'em over to iRate. Encourage those who care to do these simple things, and bands will quickly find out how unpopular it is to be affiliated with those thugs.

I was hoping...

[illumin8]

This Macrovision technology does NOT install spyware or vaporware of any kind on a users PC.

Damn! I was kind of hoping it would install Duke Nukem Forever when I stuck it in my drive...

Installing to RAM is just as bad as a HDD.

[Vandil X]

The Beastie Boys completely forget that the magic that makes computing happen occurs in.....(drum roll)... RAM. It's bad enough Windows and it's litany of services and helper applications are sucking up my RAM, just so I can use my PC, but it's another thing for some vampiric CD-ROM to just load an application into my system's memory without my consent.

How do I know if the program has terminated without rebooting? What if I run software or have other needs that requires keeping my PC on 24/7?

Whether or not an application hitchiking on a trojan CD-ROM installs to hard disk or to a RAM drive, it's still unacceptable behavior.

Even though I live in the US and not subject to the DRM'd versions of the album, I think I'll cease purchasing any more Capitol Records/EMI releases, be it CD-DA or CD-ROM.

#1 reason for not buying CD's in europe

[pugdk]

2. The disk *IS* copy controlled in Europe - which is standard policy for all Capitol/EMI titles (and a policy used by ALL major labels in Europe).

This is exactly why I'm NOT bying CD's anymore.. seriously, in most EC member countries it is a CRIME to copy the tracks of a copy protected CD to MP3 or whatever format would suit your needs. I repeat, it is a *CRIME* for you to USE what you bought in the way you see fit!

No wonder most people I know have stopped buying CD's.

Re:#1 reason for not buying CD's in europe

[cpghost]

Some people are doing nothing illegal when downloading stuff for themselves (as long as they don't share it).

What you legally download, someone else uploaded with high personal risk. Stuff doesn't appear magically in P2P networks, ya know?

Correction: the trick would work

[steveha]

Okay, I messed up. It turns out that the copy-protected CDs still contain audio; they just also contain a data section that behaves as described. If you click on the link in the article (this one), you will see that Macrovision promises it will play on an ordinary CD player.

That means this DRM is lamer than lame, because all you need is decent ripping software that can ignore the data section of the CD, and you can do whatever you want with the audio files on the CD.

So this means that if you use a CD-ROM as a plain old CD player, you would be able to listen to even a Europe-release Beastie Boys CD. I apologize for the error.

steveha

Beastie Boys

[CPlusPlusOwnsYou]

I like the beastie boys. Even if i did purchase the new CD, why would I need to play it using my computer? CD players and portable players still exist. Surely these devices are uneffected by software on an audio CD?

Almost pregnant...

[Archfeld]

What if you are a laptop user and regularly use the SUSPEND TO DISK function which copies the current RAM image to disk ? Does this imply I can got to the EMI building and just HANG OUT in the lobby and discourage people from entering and using the facility as long as I have a home else where ? If I write a virus in a run time environment, ship it to a server and it never writes to disk that IT IS LEGAL, in Europe at least ?....

*thinks perhaps the brownies were a bit to strong this time, and wanders off mumbling to himself*

Funny notice

[bernlin2000]

It does absolutely NOT install any kind of spyware, shareware, silverware, or ladies wear onto the users system Sorry if off topic, but I thought that was pretty funny! (bernlin2000 sincerly apologizes for the note of a bad joke, but thats ok since it's his first post. all spam/flames/trolls can be sent to bernlin2000@yahoo.com)

Re:Funny notice

[saigon_from_europe]

As your log on /. says, this was your second post, which means that you are lying.

(Oh dear, I cannot believe that I wrote something that was OT this much...)

My name's mike D and I demand respect

[Anonymous Coward]

My name's mike D and I demand respect

Your RAM and CD drive are what I expect

and lets not forget other great momments such as:

I did it like this, I did it like that, I DRM'd and shoved it up your ass hat so.....

And..

Macro Vision.. that funky VISION! Cop's got my gun, I'm on the run, and right about now I'd like to have some fun... fucking those geek slash dotters.

WORD

Re:You gotta fight for your right

[geekoid]

I owuld say the lyrics reflects there target demographics politics.

Also, if a ballad to women makes you feel gay, I suggest you reflect upon that.

Re:I don't mind too much

[AvantLegion]

First they came for Rap
and I did not speak out
because I did not like Rap.
Then they came for Pop
and I did not speak out
because I did not like Pop.
Then they came for Country
and I did not speak out
because I did not like Country.

Then the RIAA came for Good Music
and I did not speak out
For I died of shock

Seems like a limitation

[murderlegendre]

Although their guy got it wrong (the player does not play the redbook audio it plays WMA files) it does sound to me like this is simply a multi-session CD.

This scenario had crossed my mind, but it seemed almost too bizarre. So instead of having 80 minutes of program material on a CD, the capacity is limited to around 72 or so, the remaining 8 minutes devoted to the WMA files, player, and whatever else they have on board.

8 minutes is enough time for two average-length cuts, or one long cut. I can tell you for certain that they will not be cutting out the hits.. And for the music buying public, I suppose that means less filler material.

So I guess the consumer wins or something, maybe. Damn, this new DRM is going to totally rock!

Re:Seems like a limitation

[cbreaker]

I've got a few CD's that are multisession. They usually have some crappy PC-Friendly junk that always seems to crash.

Out of all the CD's I do have, which isn't TOO many but probably around 30 or so, not a single one is even 60 minutes, nevermind 70. Almost all albums have around 12 - 14 songs, some less some more. There's exceptions, but not enough to worry about the extra space required for the psuedo copy protection that this Beastie Boys album has.

The other crappy part about this whole thing is that these WMA files won't sound as good as your standard 44.1Khz, 16-bit *uncompressed* audio. I mean, they could sound just about as good, but in my experience these DRM music files are usually encoded at something like 128Kbps, and will especially be so if the album is larger then normal.

The above points aside, the whole DRM thing in it's current forms depend on technology that changes too much. I don't want my music CD to be unusable in six years because Windows 2010 won't run the application. Or the required libraries are no longer available. Or I'm running a different processor platform, or not Windows at all.

CD's eventually took over because they worked with every CD player no matter what, no exceptions. This DRM crap works on no CD Players and there's no single DRM standard that everyone is using.

DRM will get between a person and his or her music. It won't stop music from being copied (Haven't they learned anything from the last three decades of trying to copy protect software?) and it will simply cause law-abiding citizens their time and money.

Re:Seems like a limitation

[sparkz]

CD's eventually took over because they worked with every CD player no matter what, no exceptions.
Yeah, that was the problem vinyl had ...

CDs took over because they stopped selling vinyl.

The "protected" WMA, whatever, is low quality, but if you're listening through PC speakers, not a HiFi, what does it matter?
What's the option? Download 64/128 MP3's, and listen to that on your PC?
Quality can't be an issue to people who download from P2P networks - most of it seems to be sub-CD standard (takes too long)

Exception to prove the rule

Re:Seems like a limitation

[cbreaker]

CD's eventually took over because the players became affordable, they don't "wear out" and sound like garbage after too many plays like tapes, and they play in any CD player, not specific versions or brands.

It took a long time for tapes to die. And CD's were more expensive then tapes (and still are, even though a CD is a fraction of the cost to manufacture then a tape)

Vinyl was phased out by casettes long before CD's became the standard. CD's have been the primary format for only a little over a decade. Before that, it was tapes and CD's released together on almost every release, even though CD's have been around for a fairly long time.

My PC Speakers, like many people who listen to music from their computers often, are good. They have good sound and a great sounding sub. Multimedia speakers are pretty cheap these days; I got mine for about $100 and they sound just as good as your average home stereo.

Lots of people connect their headphones to the computer to listen to music. And some people connect the PC to their high quality audio systems.

But even still, unless I'm listening to the music on a $15 set of speakers, 128Kbps MP3's can sound like garbage on many songs. Pretty much any song with symbols or other sounds that hit the treble.

And I guess you haven't hit the P2P stuff lately, because more people then not are ripping songs at much better quality then they used to. .ogg are common, with 192Kbps variable rates. These are very good quality files. Variable rate MP3's are also common, as are 256Kbps files. When I download for a particular song, I look for the highest bitrate and I almost always find one better then 128. The difference in file size from 128Kbps crap to 192Kbps variable rate can often be insignificant, and even 20% larger files won't phase most people.

Re:Seems like a limitation

[Mycroft_VIII]

Actually I believe cd's took over because the record companies pushed it hard.
As I understand it (could be wrong, heard this some time ago) Record companies would take back unsold vinyl and only charge stores for what they actually sold. When cd's first came out no enough people were switching and they were getting stuck with cd's which they shiped to stores with the same deal they shipped vinyl under. So they stoped taking back the vinyl and charging stores for all the ones the store ordered. This forced stores to stock a LOT lower levels of vinyl to avoid getting stuck paying for 100 extra copies of titles that weren't selling. however they could afford to order extra for cd's as they now had even more room for them and the lable would still take those back.
This made it harder for consumers to buy the albums they had without waiting for a new shipment, and gave the illusion that cd's were taking off big time and if they wanted to keep up with the jones they needed to buy a cd player.
At the time the lables wanted cd's to take off because a) they were slightly cheaper to make, and b) you couldn't copy cd's, other than to tape, which was noticably worse quality wich they thought would matter greatly mp3's have finally taught them otherwise.
The riaa have been abusing thier customers over thier crazy anti-copy schemes since the beggining of cd, and I wouldn't be suprise if they tried to kill casset recorders like sony did with betamax as well.

Mycroft

Re:Seems like a limitation

[cbreaker]

I don't know, it sounds a little extremist to me.

You could always buy a blank tape and record your CD to it. You still can. And it's not any easier to copy vinyl.

Seems to me that only once the P2P stuff really took off did the RIAA turn into the big DRM monster they are now. I mean, they were never a good organization. But they weren't suing people either.

New technology is and probably always will be very slow to saturate a market, especially with consumer electronics. It seems to me that they were simply trying to push things along a little quicker. It may have been really expensive to produce three different mediums for a single album (Vinyl, tape, CD.)

When I was growing up, and old enough to buy music, there were a lot of cassette tapes. Some CD's, few. And not very much vinyl. Maybe the RIAA pushes the vinyl out the door the rest of the way but over here, there wasn't much left anyways.

We're better overall with CD's then vinyl or tapes. They are random access. They sound more precise. They don't degrade over time just from playing them. They are easier to store in the car.

Perhaps the CD will be the last open format for mass distribution.

ps. Betamax has nothing to do with this. Not even a little. Beta was actually a better quality picture then VHS but only Sony made it. It was too expensive, and when the other companies got together and made VHS for a lot cheaper, they won. Betamax never established it's market, so it was vulnerable to this. Sony makes this mistake a lot, like they did with the Minisisc. Very cool tech, but expensive and only Sony made it. They let others make it eventually but it was too late.

Re:Seems like a limitation

[Mycroft_VIII]

To be more honest the copy angle wasn't the only one the riaa were pushing, it was just one of them. The other was selling people the same stuff they had already bought on vynl. The whole 'it's now a better more perfect version' angle didn't work as well as they had hoped. The fact that a cd could be almost guanranteed authentic as the entry level cost of being able to make cd's let alone duplicate them was rather high (though once you payed a few hundred grand or whatever for the machines the cost per cd was pretty good, eventualy cheaper than tape).
So yeah the copy angle was only one reason, perhaps not enough on it's own. I was really only trying to show that the riaa has had some of the current mindset all along, the whole p2p explosion has only pushed it to new hights.
Actually the betamax thing was when they tried to declare video taping a copyright violation. got struck down. Here I was showing the whole new tech threatens our bussiness model so it must be illeagle meme isn't new eigther. Crap even goes back to the horse and buggy vs automobile era a hundred years ago.

I think we need to find a way to pacify them and get what we want. Maybee if we had a p2p system they could release low bitrate (say <128 mono, about halfway between am and fm??) versions and downloaders could verify it's the free leagle version. If the music is good I'm shure many (not all, some are quite happy to hear am quality music) would then buy the cd.
Just an idea.

MYcroft

Anti-Beastie FUD

[clevername3000]

Who's having trouble ripping this CD...er, excuse me, Enhanced CD? I imported it into iTunes, no problem. I watched the video, again without incident. Nothing was installed on my computer. I didn't have to hold down the shift key!

People are scheming on a thing that's a mirage. I'm tellin' all of y'all it's sabotage.

(BTW, I'm a happy consumer. I purchased this at Best Buy for under 11 bucks. It's ~15 at ITMS.)

Re:Anti-Beastie FUD

[Ilgaz]

Keep that cd in drive and run an installer which uses Apple Installer code, see what happens when Apple installer checks "what's in that drive?"

BTW, save your files before doing it...

Re:Anti-Beastie FUD

[Yer Mom]

Well, if you're in the US, that would be why. No protection on the UK/US versions...

Just buy it online...

[trawg]

.... from the experts! (No DRM included!)

Beastie Who?

[tsm_sf]

Didn't they have a good album back in the 90's? I can't really remember...

Fuckers.

where warez costs you money...

[Microlith]

Yeah, where you can pay for it and still not give the creators money!

It's like piracy that costs you money!

Re:where warez costs you money...

[Fancia]

AllOfMP3 pays license fees to ROMS, which in turn pays license fees (minus a very small percentage for operation costs) to the artists.

Doesn't matter.

[thatguywhoiam]

From the Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]: "Philips have stated that such discs, which do not meet the Red Book specification, are not permitted to bear the trademarked Compact Disc Digital Audio logo."

You are absolutely correct - however I have noticed that a great many CDs do not have the Compact Disc logo on the outside of the packaging anymore, even if they are an actual red book audio disc. Many use an internal tray liner with an embossed CD logo in the corner, which you only see once you open the disc.

If I was being charitable, I would say this is to save on logo space when designing the actual artwork for the discs. My tinfoil hat side says the RIAA knew that truly cipppled/DRM'd discs are not technically CDs anymore -- and some people would quickly figure that out, once the protected logos started appearing in its place. Since most retail CD stores will not take back an opened CD these days, there's no way to really verify that what you have just purchased is actually a CD until its too late.

As a weird aside, have any of you noticed something quite strange about the 'copy-protected' logo? When I look at that, I think 'play. record. play. record.' Hardly seems appropriate.

Re:Doesn't matter.

[Fastolfe]

My tinfoil hat side says the RIAA knew that truly cipppled/DRM'd discs are not technically CDs anymore

I might go further than this.. If the RIAA is being told that they're not allowed to use the CD logo on discsthat depart from specifications, it seems to be in their best interests to stop using the CD logo on all of their music discs, whether or not they adhere to specifications. This way, they dilute the value of the logo to the point where it doesn't matter that copy protected discs don't have it.

there's no way to really verify that what you have just purchased is actually a CD until its too late.

You could ask the clerk. If he says it's a CD and will play in any CD player, and you find out that it doesn't, you should have sufficient grounds to get them to take it back even though it's opened: they misled you when they sold it to you.

IMO, Philips and/or some other pro-consumer organizations need to start taking out ad campaigns advising consumers to look for that logo to ensure their music will play correctly, and warn them that if there's no logo, then the disc may not be "CD-compatible" and may carry additional (harmful?) restrictions or software, and may not play on all of their players (now or in the future).

I think some of the other suggestions (pending legislation?) requiring some labeling in the other direction (pointing out that the disc is not a proper CD) would be even better.

Re:Doesn't matter.

[pla]

Since most retail CD stores will not take back an opened CD these days, there's no way to really verify that what you have just purchased is actually a CD until its too late.

Do a Google search for your state's name and "warrant of merchantability".

Most (all?) states have such a law, which basically boils down to "if it doesn't work, they must refund your money". The actual details vary between states, but everyone should find out and memorize the specifics for where they live.

Despite what the staff may say, what they may have posted all over the store, even what their register receipts may say, "store policy" never overrides actual law.

Copy Protection in Canada though BUT WHY?

[Vaystrem]

Why ISN'T there copy protection in the USA and UK if there is in the Canadian versions??

If they are concerned about piracy why are they NOT copy protecting in their largest markets? Canada is a radically smaller market than the United States and still significantly smaller than the UK.

Its not like Canadians have a significant advantage in terms of CD-Burner ownership over American or British Users. Are Canadians "more likely" to pirate than our American bretheren? If they are concerned about copy-right legislation here its still illegal for me to 'upload' just not to download.

It doesn't make any sense. As a Canadian I feel royally screwed.

Re:Copy Protection in Canada though BUT WHY?

[Frostbeard]

It's actually worse than that.

In Canada, we have the legal right to make a copy of a CD for our own personal use, regardless of where the original came from. If we actually own a CD and seek to make a copy for ourselves, we're completely within our rights, and actually pay a tarriff on blank audio media of all varieties to help compensate the artists for this right.

I don't know if the Americans have a similar right, but since they're getting the uncrippled CD, that hardly seems to matter. The point is, in a country where we actually have the legislated RIGHT to copy the CD, the publisher is attempting to prevent us from doing so.

You can bet that EMI Canada is still taking their piece of the tarriff pie though.

So, basically, we're paying for a right that is being taken away from us by the very people who benefit from that payment.

This is why I don't buy "Copy Protected" CDs, even though it's pretty simple to circumvent that "protection". I was actually going to buy this particular album before I noticed the sticker.

DRM'ed in .au

[trawg]

I just got back from my local CD store and after reading this thread thought I'd check out this CD - it definitely says it has some sort of copy protection system on the back cover, so it looks like the DRM stuff extends to Australia as well.

Re:Uh... Yes!

[timmi]

The vast majority of people I have asked are willing to pay 50 Cents a song for music downloads that are fast, legal and glitch-free.

There will always be an "Underground" full of freeloaders.

The worst thing that the RIAA ever did in regard to piracy was suing Napster, and therefore bringing PTP to the attention of the masses.

Re:AVG is the way to go

[platypibri]

You are in luck. AVG has a free version!

They advertise P2P to original cd buyers

[Ilgaz]

I have 2 cds with that "technology" (macrovision one), Iron Maidens latest and Norah Jones.

If I had a iPod or any mp3 player, would want to rip them for my own use but I can't.

Here the funny part begins. What do I do? I download the most popular one as I am not too much "tech" type, there Kazaa with latest spyware technology comes :) So, as I must be punished to buy original cd, I am spyware infected...

Don't forget, average user who doesn't care about p2p, goes to friends store and buy cds for supporting artist/ sound quality concerns is introduced to wonders of p2p...

BTW, OSX users, NEVER leave the macrovision protected cd on your cd drive. Apple OSX installer gets evilly frozen, speaking about major hangup effecting entire OS, I had to kill -9 the disc daemons etc. Not to speak about Apple OSX defaults to playing cd when inserted and there, you have a iTunes freeze too.

as last note, thank you Iron Maiden and Norah Jones for allowing such crap. UK and USA releases not copy protected, so rest of your fans in the world are potential thieves.

Re:They advertise P2P to original cd buyers

[Yer Mom]

there Kazaa with latest spyware technology comes :) So, as I must be punished to buy original cd, I am spyware infected...

Well, you coul use eMule instead of Kazaa - no spyware there :)

Re:They advertise P2P to original cd buyers

[Ilgaz]

"I" as an average user, simulating :)

I would use eMule (or better, sheraza) of course but check top downloads at download.com .

Re:You gotta fight for your right

[Mike deVice]

This album was in fact listed in the Gay Task Force newsletter that all us fags get.

The Gay Agenda at work! Free toaster ovens all around! ;)

Re:Bills defining a virus, and making this illegal

[Mycroft_VIII]

Uhm, no offence, but those are useless links.

"sorry your search is only retained for a limited time" or some such nonsense.

Mycroft

Re:shift

[Mycroft_VIII]

OFF TOPIC!?!?!?!?!?!

Folks if your going to mod, try at least reading some comments, knowing somthing about the subjects would help as well. At the very least don't mod if you don't understand the post!!!
Holding the shift key while inserting the cd bypasses this kinda cheapo copy protection, the kind specifically under discussion, the kind that IS the topic for this article.
OK rant done

Mycroft

Pestpatrol does NOT remove C-dilla!

[SigNick]

"We at PestPatrol do not find significant substance to the Internet rumors to continue our detection and removal of C-Dilla. So PestPatrol does NOT detect C-Dilla. This page is posted for your information only"

http://www.pestpatrol.com/pestinfo/c/c-dilla.asp

Re:Pestpatrol does NOT remove C-dilla!

[tokabola]

I don't know if pest patrol ever actually removed C-Dilla, but they DID have intructions to manually remove it. I can't claim C=Dilla is spyware, but it certainly did bork my box.

Beastie lyrics (RIAA version)

[The Tyro]

If I played guitar I'd be jimmy page... the girlies I sue, are underage

Re:Beastie lyrics (RIAA version)

[purplepaste]

CDs with protection are the kind I like
You'll steal my music like I stole your bike

Re:Cognitive Dissonance? (Red book == WMA ? )

[veg]

Compare and contrast:
"3. The copy protection system used for all EMI/Capitol releases including 'To the 5 Boroughs' is Macrovision's CDS-200, which sets up an audio player into the users RAM (not hard drive) to playback the RED book audio on the disk."

Vs

"The technology does activate a proprietary Macrovision player in order to play the CD on a PC, and that player converts WMA compressed files to audio on the fly."

So "RED book"==WMA ?

Lame.

[Queuetue]

The beasties have been lame since the early 90's. Now, they work for the man. No big surprise.

Support independant music and go to used cd stores.

Screw the record industry and their shills.

I am so pleased...

[Bombur]

...the US and UK versions aren't crippled,... Now that's some very good News for me living in Germany. I am really sick to hear about whatever location such Digital Restrictions are not applicable to in response to my probelms here.

Requirements for a Trojan...

[interactive_civilian]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought in order to be classified as a Trojan (Horse), there was one more requirement than just masquerading as something friendly and installing unknown software behind the user's back...

In the classical sense, I thought a Tojan Horse must not only carry an unexpected payload, but also open up a system to insecurity. I.E. the Greek warriors who hid inside of the original Trojan Horse did no real damage themselves other than slay the guards, but they did open the gates of Troy and allow the Greek army in to sack the city (forgive me if I am a little fuzzy on this as I have not seen the movie and the Iliad cuts off after the funeral of Hector).

So is not opening some kind of backdoor also a requirement of a Trojan Horse? Or does the current sense of the term not follow the classical sense of the term?

Two-pronged strategy

[acb]

If this is the same as the "Copy Control" system EMI rolled out in Australia last year (and have been putting on almost all of their CDs here since, not to mention letting Warner (who share their pressing plant) use it on theirs), it consists of two things. The CD itself has a corrupt TOC which some CD-ROM drives refuse to read, some return incorrect track lengths, and some read perfectly well. It also contains a track with encrypted Windows Media versions of all the tracks (at a really low bitrate; one title was 47kbps or so) and a player that plays them, after securing the machine so that the thieving user doesn't misappropriate EMI's precious intellectual property. There was a case brought against EMI here by a consumer who claimed that the computer versions of the tracks were of too poor quality; the consumer lost.

more retartedware

[SanityInAnarchy]

My new word, btw -- "retartedware" -- is simple software packages that I could write with my left ass cheek which help retarted people with certain problems that they should be able to deal with themselves. Examples are: Internet Eraser, various security-related systems, and so on. Usually they don't give nearly enough information for a tech to understand what they do. They just say things like "Your computer remembers every web site you visit" or "Someone could be hacking you right now" to get people nice and scared, and then offer their software.

So I'm betting the next phase of retartedware will be a piece of software which blocks CD autorun, popping up a window every time you insert a CD, asking you if you want to run the autorun or just rip/play the CD. Imagine: "Every time you insert a CD into your CD-ROM drive, it could be installing a virus on your computer!"

Re:more retartedware

[Chess_the_cat]

You know what's really retarded? Your post.

You say that now ...

[gstoddart]

I'm just waiting for all of the companies who haven't not installed vapourware on my computer to start charging me royalties for the vapourware they have installed but can't tell me about and aren't entirely sure themselves of what it does.

You know, like SCO.

=)

Fearsome legalese

[tregoweth]

If you decide to buy the actual CD, read the legalese on the back:

This product is provided AS IS without any express or implied warranties. Although this product is intented to play on most CD players and operate on most personal computers running Windows 95 (or higher) or Macintosh OS systems 7.5.5 (or higher) that have CD ROM drives and Quicktime software version 5.0 or higher (not included) Capitol Records is not liable if it does not or if it damages any CD players, computers, peripherals or data. Capitol Records will have no liability for consequential, punitive, or other damages or to refund the purchase price for this product. Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you. If any part of this Disclaimer and Limitation is unenforceable, all other parts will remain enforceable. Visit capitolrecords.com to download the latest version of Quicktime software for your computer. 'Enhanced CD' is a certification mark of the RIAA.

Almost makes me want to distribute illegal copies purely out of spite. (Note to RIAA: Almost!)

Fuck the B'Boys

[Doc Ruby]

"standard policy for all
Capitol/EMI titles (and a policy used by ALL major labels in Europe)"

My standard policy for corporate rock is FUCK YOU.

amiga player?

[spir0]

I've tried this on all my computers. My C64's don't have CDROMs, but my amiga 1200, 2000's and 3000 just won't recognise it. Now I can't get my money back because the shop thinks I somehow pirated it.

So have EMI released an amiga player, or can I sue them for selling me something that's not fit for the purpose?

The album should have been called Xenophobia.

[Gordon Bennett]

To quote from their reply:

1. There is NO copy controlled software on US or UK releases of Beastie Boys' "To the 5 Boroughs."
2. The disk *IS* copy controlled in Europe - which is standard policy for all Capitol/EMI titles (and a policy used by ALL major labels in Europe).

Standard policy - looks like racist monopolies to me.

Re:You gotta fight for your right

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

So only "fags" make and listen to "ballads to women" then? Or . . ?

Thanks for your enlightened point of view, I'll be sure to pick this amazing Beastie Boys rehash up right away. Way to keep it real dawg.

No. There is nothing wrong with listening to a song about a woman. HOWEVER The CD we are talking contains songs NOT about women... but TO WOMEN.

It's as if i were talking to you like a girl. "Hey baby... back your ass up here and let me smell your sweet ass" (not that i speak that way) But its beyond gay, to sit there and listen to that. I'm sorry it is.

As for your "keep it real dawg" I dont know if you're trying to mock me... But i dont speak like that.

Re:regarding Outkast

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

I could say the same about Iron Maiden, Nirvana, Snoop Dogg, etc. Maybe you should try listening to their earlier stuff to get an idea of why they became famous instead of their later stuff to get an idea of what kind of music most people will pay money for. I highly recommend their first few albums, some of the best rap ever imho.

Thats a fair enough statement. Certainly what i say isnt the absolute truth. I do not subscribe to absolute truth. I've heard some of outkasts other hits from previous albums. I've always respected them for being something different in an industry that wants clones.

No i havent heard their previous albums... So i'm only basising my opinion on their latest. There are good songs on there, and i DO love their adventureous style. They brought music back into music in many respects. But i find the songs for the most part, aimed towards females directly and its jut fun to sit there and listen to it.

I need some music that doesnt make me feel like the girl in a listening relationship :)

The second cd started to get interesting with a little bit of anti bush/anti war in one of the songs.. but.. i dont know.. the whole album didnt speak to me.

For me its boring, for others... hey if you like it.. it doesnt make you less than me or better. Enjoy it. Lifes too dam short.

Re:You gotta fight for your right

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

Wouldn't fag music be ballads to men?

Its the same thing... IF the song is a male singing directly to a female, talking sexually etc directly to a "fictious female" in the song... You might as well be listening to some guy singing it towards a guy. Its the same thing.

I have no problem with songs about women... But i dont need to listen to some guy whispering sweet nothings into my hear on an album. Thats gay.

And just for the reguard I do not wish intolerance towards gay people. Fag is just a word. Support Gay marriage, and everyones right to live their life the way they choose!

Re:You gotta fight for your right

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

Also, if a ballad to women makes you feel gay, I suggest you reflect upon that.

HAHAHA.. Thats good. If some guy came up to you and started whispering in your ear "hey girl... i want to fuck you hard", how would you feel?

Thats what the music is doing.

Re:"real". Yeah, real as a 3 dollar bill

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

The beastie boys were a hip joke when they came out, when was that... 15 years ago. Fight for your right to party was a funny song. But it was in the mold of the "Itsy bitsy teenie weenie yellow polka dot bikini" song.

Have you ever listened to early rap? How about early music in general? EARLY forms of each genre of music are pretty innocent.

Listen to RunDMC's "You be ill'n" and tell me they were a joke because in that song and others they were doing the same thing the Beasties were doing.

This is before the whole "hard" thing. Beasties were not a joke... They were suspect. Time has passed and its more than proved they're geniune guys who really enjoy music.

RunDMC will tell you that. Just about EVERY rapper out there that has the right to say it... will say the Beasties are genuine souls.

They went away awhile because the joke wore thin, and they said they needed to learn to play musical instruments.

No.. They went away because they couldnt fit into an industry that was in a feverish zone trying to clone NWA. Hardcore rap that expressed another element to black culture/life in America became more popular than the old "rock the party" style.

So now we have angry middle aged jewish guys who are rapping (ha ha ha, I can't even type that with a straight face), and you think you've discovered something.

Are you talking about in general, or directly about the Beasties. Frankly Mc Serch of 3rd base was a jewish white guy from brooklyn who held his own just fine before the "white revolution" of rap. Both Beasties and 3rd Base were there before that happened because they grew up here in NY exposed to music that moved them. Just like every other white kid 2 years later... They were influenced. It just so happens they were there first.

Dude, these guys are as formula as it gets.

Forumla? By what standard? Who out there is making music like them? Sure its an older style, but no one does that style. They've mixed older classic "rock the party" MC style rhymes and beats using newer technology and techniques. So what its an "older" style. They're grown ups now.

Nothing wrong with formula; I was just listening to Maroon 5 in the car. But I'm not claiming this is ground-breaking "real" music. Its just fun pop music.

I'm not sure i said the beasties were ground breaking. They're the Beasties... They are the Ray Charles of the Rap industry. Just like Run DMC is the James Brown of the rap industry. They're OLD NOW. They're classics. They still make music because people recognize this. They're not the Jay-z... They're from a different time, and they do it a little new, and a little old.

Accept that the only difference between Beastie Boys and say Britney Spears is that Britney is more popular.

Are you kidding me? You cant even compare the two. Britney spears is a white girl singing pop tunes, the Beasties are white guys from New York singing RAP music before just about any other white guy. There simply werent any "white" guys rapping before the Beasties. Lets look at Britney and who came before... Debby Gibson, Tiffany, Samantha Fox, Madonna, hell even Sherly Temple :) I mean its been done to death.

Britney's only impact on the music industry is the record amounts of cash she rakes in. But she is by no way a pioneer. She is more Formula than the Beasties. This is an absurd comparison and you and everyone else knows it!

Toss in the fact that the Beasties have been politically active, in their music and lives... You simply cant compare Britney. She's as clueless as whaleshit. Shes a hollywood brat making bubble gum music. The closest thing she came to being political was being interviewed by Tucker Carlson on CrossFire. She's as dumb as whale shit. Have you seen her rap? Its a joke. Compare that to the Beasties who were the FIRST whites to do that on a label. She owes them for opening doors.

Re:"real". Yeah, real as a 3 dollar bill

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

Just to clarify a sentence...

When i said "I'm not sure i said the beasties were ground breaking." I meant presently.

In the past they were.

Re:dd?

[Mycroft_VIII]

Care to expound a bit?

Mycroft

Taken a bit further....

[eofpi]

Rip it!

You buy a new CD and it don't wanna play
You ask the disc "Please?", and it still says, "NO!"
There's two TOCs and none will work
But your CD gives you files made by some kind of jerk

You gotta fight for your right to riiiiiiip it!

The Man caught you ripping, and he said, "No way!"
That hypocrite steals music all day
Man, this DRM is such a drag
Now your mom threw away your best CD-ROM (Busted!)

You gotta fight for your right to riiiiiiip it!
You gotta fight

Don't step onto the 'net if that's the things you're gonna do
I'll sue you out of your home if you don't stop that drive
Your mom busted in and said, "What's that noise?"
Aw mom you're just jealous--it's the ripped CD!

You gotta fight for your right to riiiiiiip it!
You gotta fight for your right to riiiiiiip it!
riiiiiiip it!
riiiiiiip it!

Not bad for 4am, eh?

Mod Parent.

[justkarl]

If I had points, I'd unload them on you.
By the way, you forgot to add that there's nothing "fun" about Maroon 5.

Re:You gotta fight for your right

[geekoid]

My point is, that kind of music has a tendeny to make women want some. So going to a concert that make women feel like getting some is a great way to score.
Except at the lilith fair...

Re:dd?

[nicolas.e]

dd if=/dev/zero of=$PARTITION

Re:Mod parent up +5 funny

[nicolas.e]

Except it's the Beasties who should be modded funny. That is on the real site.

Re:dd?

[Mycroft_VIII]

gak, not as familiar with cli tools in linux as I would like. But I'm talking about stuff outside the partitions themselves, And without looking up that tool specificaly your usage looks like it's partition specific.
I have a drive that has had a c-dilla 'protected' program installed on it, then used as a linux test install where I first wiped it completely erasing partition info after wiping the partitions. and completely re-partitioning it.
I later put xp and said program back on the disk, durring install the program detected a 'previous install' and forced me through extra hoops to install the program that didn't make me a happy camper to say the least. So it's obviously writing to areas outside the areas eigther linux or windows normaly writes to on any sort of formatting or partitioning or installing.
Well I'm going to go google and such to parse dd a bit better than my currently very low cluefullness. Though what I'd really like to look at and perhaps edit the data itself. I'm much more interested in how it works to tell the truth.

Mycroft

Interestingly enough

[DigitalSpyder]

I can listen to Linkin Park's "Hybrid Theory" just fine on my Powerbook G4 (via. superdrive) and yet, not their older CD, "Meteora".

Gone are the days where you used to be able to buy a CD and trust that your player could handle it. It's like nobody gives a crap about standards anymore.

Now the more they bloat these CDs, the more incompatible they become, the less likely I will be to buy them and more likely I am to pirate them. Either way, I will listen to the music I want, when I want. They can either provide it for a reasonable price with ease of use or I will get it elsewhere and not pay them a cent. Very simple really. And I'm willing to bet that I am not alone.

The recording industry needs to wake up, smell the coffee and adapt or die. At the end of the day, they will not outsmart the very people who provide the technical services they rely on.

It *IS* copyprotected in the US

[dmauer]

Uh......
I bought my copy in Massachusetts, and it has copy protection. Won't play in my DVD player, which pisses me off. Plays fine in the car. Haven't tried ripping it.