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Is Dell Just Testing the Market?
sarig_magik asks: "It seems that Dell is testing the Linux desktop market worldwide, and their choice of desktop is Linspire 4.51. I wonder how Microsoft will view Dell, now? Could this be a real attempt to gain a foothold before any of the other distributors do? We know the hardware vendor, but can anyone comment on the choice of OS?" Although Dell is offering a system with a preloaded Linux Desktop, they aren't doing it here in the US, but through their Italian partner, Questar. While the choice of Linspire as a desktop may leave a few of you underwhelmed, this does seem to be a step in the right direction. Is Dell testing the market? Of course they are. How well do you think they will do?
It ain't no test, just the usual amount of freedom of movement Dell grant to their partners. Don't look for this to propagate in a top-down manner.
Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.
Like it or not, MS still has a strong hold on the corporate enviroment. While I think it's a good thing that Dell is going this route, it'll only have marginally decent results.
Dell (IMO) is a good manufacturer for the "average" computer, and the brand recognition is quite high. I think Linspire is a good choice for a pre-installed distro. Most Linux geeks (who would prefer, say, Gentoo or Debian or whatever) would want to install it themselves anyway. Linspire is a good "first-time" distro, or so I've heard. The people who need the OS to be installed when they buy the computer will like what Linspire has to offer.
I think Linspire is too unknown/controversial.
If I was buying a new linux distro, I would go with Either Redhat (known and trusted) or Suse (rising star) not some recently name changed article
IMHO of course
'By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes'
so does it still run everything as root?
Also remember the legal trouble Linspire had when it was Lindows.
Yes, the new option is different. What I see is not so much "testing" but something being there and then disappearing, and then something different being there and disappearing. I'm not going to count on Dell supporting any particular distro, but I think that it is nice to be able to buy a machine without a Microsoft tax.
Does dell offer full compatibility with windows ? :rolleyes:
Because it comes with the Linux distro pre-installed, is the computer $99 less because it hasn't paid the 'microsoft tax'?
its a good marketing move to sell to people who don't want to buy / have Windows XP.
Reason, free market capitalism, and individualism
or maybe in this case I should say penguin *rim shot*
Anywho, there is probably no way Dell could survive if it invoked the ire of Microsoft and MS refused to sell them licenses(or at least reduced cost ones). However, I think that Dell is pretty confident that MS will not do this unless they REALLY want the anti-monopolists breathing down their neck...
Maybe then the DOJ could do it's job
Presumably, this is more of a test run to work through operational issues (providing Linux support, drivers, etc.). Look for a more serious effort in a year or so. And don't forget Sun, aren't they pushing a Linux desktop now, too?
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
well, most people who use linux probably won't buy their system from dell, but probably build it on their own, also, few of us will want to use linspire.
this is probably targetting the 'newbie' crowd.
... wrong news.
Signatures are for stupids.
Although Dell is offering a system with a preloaded Linux Desktop, they aren't doing it here in the US, but through their Italian partner, Questar
Please go easy on me....but why is Dell not doing it in the US?
Red Bull gave me wings and I flew into the ceiling fan.
I thought Dell said they had nothing to do with the VAR that was loading Linspire and selling the PCs in Europe other than selling them machines?
Story Here
"I'm a karate man. Karate mans bleed on the inside."
A friend of mine works for a small computer repair shop that sells a few boxes on the side. He has started playing with Linspire to see how well it works. His idea is to use Linspire as the base OS on lower-end desktops and offer Windoze as an upgrade. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out with Dell doing this too now.
"I was raised by a cup of coffee" -Homsar
My company has been buying RedHat preinstalled on Dell machines for years. RH8 & RH9 last year. We just bought 10 360 class machines with WS3 preinstalled.....
Unless they take one of the "TOP" main-stream Linux OS's like Redhat, Suse, or Mandrake this will be another plop in the pot for the Lunix drive. Why Linspire? rather than say.. "Mandrake"?
If they every decide to install new hardware they might. Although I have no idea how often the average Dell consumer actually upgrades their machine instead of just waiting to buy a new one?
This is my opinion... and FYI it is not based on facts at all. Although I am personally infatuated with Linux as an OS (as many /.ers are), I am really not sure as to how well a PC preloaded with Linux will do. Price, I'm sure, will be low. This may spur some sales, but I am still doubtful. How many new computer buyers (Dell's audience) actually know about operating systems, let alone Linux?
Dell is making a smart move, however, as they are testing the market with a sister company that will not mar the Dell name. This is ingenious, as Dell will not get a bad name if people are unsatisfied with their PCs loaded with Linux. Hell, Dell could go on selling their current PCs, and nobody would ever have known the difference. This is a win-win situation.
My final opinion on how sales will be for this Linux desktop: luke warm. Sorry guys. Props to Dell for trying.
Dell has been selling Linux boxes for a long time, so this is not NEW news.
What Dell could do is offer ALL of their machines without the Microsoft tax.
While Dells choice of distribution is odd in many way, you can't help but appluad their decision. Pushing Linux is a dangerous proposition for any OEM, especially one who relies so heavily on Microsoft discounts in order to make a profit with such razor thin margins. Forgetting (forgiving?) Dell for Linspire, clearly they are making the sane decision with a bold move to conquor the market now, before anyone else has a chance. They can clearly see the writting on the wall for Microsoft; they expect Longhorn to crash and burn and as any smart company would tell you, they don't want to get dragged down along with Microsoft. Dell know that the smart money is on Linux desktops. It is a growth market, and the trend looks set to continue. At current rates, Linux will totally destroy Apple within the next two years. By the time Longhorn is ready, Linux will have the majority of the market, with Microsoft a pathetic second. Why wouldn't Dell want a peice of that pie?
As long as Dell can stay the course, we're all set. Longhorn is years off, which at least gives KDE developers enough time to actually fix the horrible cripling usability issues in the KDE desktop. Maybe we'll even see three, maybe four games available!
The writeup may be a little misleading; Dell isn't the entity behind installing Linspire on these machines, it's Questar:
A PC dealer in Europe has begun selling Dell desktops equipped with Linux, but Dell emphasized that the systems were customized by the dealer and that this isn't the first time this has happened.
That article can be read here at Cnet.
When you're not looking, this sig is in Latin.
I worked for Dell from '98 to early '00. During that time they went from "testing the waters" to fairly comitted (with an "apliance" that came in two flavors: Linux and Netware). Then sort of back to testing the waters.
Now its '04 and they are testing the waters.
I think that it would be better to say that they are perpetually ready to "go Linux" if and when it makes sense, but MS still pretty much has them by the short hairs.
-Peter
Dell is not using Linspire. That is completely the doing of their reseller, and Dell has distanced themselves from Linspire.
See the article at C|Net from last week on the matter
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
If I remember correctly Dell loaded spy ware onto Windows machines and stopped telling the general public how to remove it... Now then, how will they do this with Linux?
Once a spyware user, always a spyware user. Theres no reforming in business, just bullshitting more.
I like muppets.
According to this, Questar is just a reseller, not a partner. From the article:
Questar is simply buying Optiplex 170L desktops from Dell as might any other business or individual customer. Is there any thing more to their "agreement" than that? No, Dell told The Register today: "Questar is a direct Dell customer and that is the extent of the relationship."
Dell is not testing the water. Dell is not shipping Linux PCs. Questar is not a Dell partner.
All that is happening is that Questar is buying Dell PCs at full sticker value just like anybody else and sticking Linux on it. No story here folks, time to move on.
I thought Dell distanced themselves from this last week, claiming that third parties can load whatever OS they want onto their hardware.
This WOULD be news if Dell was offering Linux support along their Windows support, but a third party that buys a Dimension/Optiplex and sells it with Linux really isn't ground breaking news.
[ Monday is a terrible way to spend one seventh of your life. ]
"We know the hardware vendor, but can anyone comment on the choice of OS?"
Yes I can. It is linux.
... I've tried L'Inspire (apparently some sort of French Linux distro) when my buddy bought it. It was nice, in a mindless sort of way, but within a week of using it I formatted my HD and reinstalled Debian. The stupid limitations of Linspire got irritating real fast. If Dell's testing the waters, they won't get an accurate result using Linspire, because Linux geeks will be the first to buy a Linux CD when offered the choice of Win vs. Lin. Only later will regular users start to choose Linux.
Maybe Dell WANTS to fail, to justify future lack of Linux support. Because I can't see this being successful. Especially because they will undoubtedly have various devices that don't run under Linux -- modem, wireless card, etc. Until the hardware is 100% supported, Linux won't make inroads with the common man. And until they ditch Linspire, they won't make inroads with geeks.
I'm not normally an irrational zealous dickhead, but I figure "When in Rome..."
Anyway, to answer the submitters question: Dell doesn't sit around trying software until they find something they like and want to ship. Partners come to them and pitch deals to them. If Dell (or their hardware partner) is going with Lindows it's because Michael Robertson made them a deal they couldn't refuse. It's that simple.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
1) Dell is friend with Microsoft ...but make sure they use a really lame, unsecure distro (everyone is root!)
2) Microsoft has some serious security issues
3) Microsoft has no clear "target" to say, "hey Linux too has security issues"
4) Microsoft ask Dell to start shipping Linux
5)
6) Microsoft steathly release an exploit/virus/whatever that target Dell's Linux machines
7) voila! Bingo! Next on CNN, "Linux is target of a mass viral infection! Microsoft has the solution!"
8) A page show up on microsoft.com talking about how Linux is bad, etc...
Really, it makes sense...
OK, I'll put back my foil hat now. Kthxbye.
Maybe they should use Xandros? It is just as easy to use as Linspire and they also have a business desktop with a desktop management server to make for easy deployment and management. SuSE/Novell may also be a good option if they come out with some type of management for easier deployment. While Red Hat has a great server, they have no real integration for management or deployment of business desktops, so I don't think they are a good option for the enterprise right now.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
Dell still do offer a RedHat solution here in the UK, but, only for the server market. You cannot get Linux on a desktop, however, they have recently started shipping desktops with FreeDOS, so you don't HAVE to buy Windows
I've never shoed a horse, but I once told a donkey to piss off!
Personally, I think they're trying too hard to cross-market. If they would just release a line of machines with actual LINUX/UNIX on it, rather than something vageuly LINUX powered but Windows-shaped, they might actually do a lot better.
My problem with Linspire is that it attempts to cater to people too stupid or lazy to learn how to use Linux, but want to show off how anti-Microsoft they are by not buying a Windows OS. Now, this may not be the case, it could just be my perception, but it seems that if someone is going to use an entirely GUI-based OS, they should stick with Mac or Windows and accept it.
Now, me personally, I'm a Windows user. Not because I'm too stupid to use Linux (in fact, I used to do tech support for it), but because my career depends on their support, and using it at home keeps me current in the field. But after years of supporting users who have inadvertantly screwed up their system by clicking the wrong things at the wrong times, I really respect Linux for the mere fact that you CAN'T screw it up unless you know what you're doing. It seems like Linspire is just going to add this problem to Linux when it doesn't need to be there.
-The Libra
"Please be patient--The future will begin momentarily."
Although hidden under the 'small business' banner, and never on the cheapest PCs, DellPrecision 450n/650n offers RH workstation rlse v.3. It seems Dell's bargain w/MS was to not directly market consumer grade PCs (yet).
This is the second time Dell has attempted to sell consumer desktops with Linux. The first run failed miserably from a sales standpoint. I doubt this one will do that much better, but at least they chose a more appropriate market.
You can buy the machines without os (or rather, the DrDOS OS) from their website.
r e. aspx/desktops_n?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd)
/., instructions on how to buy Dells.
Dell.com | Small business | Destop | N-series Desktop
(http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/compa
I have bought some, and they work great.
PS: I never though I would be posting, on
"Piter, too, is dead."
Now apparently the story is that they *are* installing the OS and shipping the systems on behalf of Questar.
If RH hadn't dropped "RHL" in order to "focus on the enterprise", they'd be in a position to make tons of money with hardware partners such as Dell just like Microsoft does!!!I rant about RHL being EOL'ed constantly, but I still can't believe they did it. It will go down as the single most stupid OSS managment decision of all time. RH had mindshare, they had the grassroot Linux movement... hell they were Linux in the USA. They threw all of that out the window.
Dell still sells Linux Workstations -- pricy machines with pro video cards and SCSI. These are aimed at the same market as Sun.
The last time I bought a server and workstations from Dell, I asked for a quote with Windows and with Linux. Linux was more expensive. I asked the salesman why. He said, "Because Linux is more expensive than Windows." You can get Linux for nothing. He wouldn't sell the machines to me without an OS, "because of their agreement with Microsoft." I retorted that the agreement was not legal, and had been ruled as such in court. He replied, "Oh yes it is. I used to work for Microsoft."
Stick Men
whats so great/new about this. You can get OS-less PowerEdge 400SC starting around $250(with instant and send-in rebates).
I switched from Windows to Linspire and it is a good change for me. It works like Windows, but it seems to have a lot more features than Windows did.
I lost a lot though. No more unannounced updates by M$. No more virii attacks. No more trojans that take over my computer and trash my workday.
I am a writer, so I used Office, plus I used Photoshop and ran a website, cut CDs for my music, etc. - all the standard stuff most people use.
Linspire had a matching free app for all that I do, and it came loaded with the distro, which was a painless install. I could even access all my old data files.
I would never go back again, and why should I have to? All my documents are compatible with M$ files and the clients I work with cannot tell the difference. I can. I have a lot more free time since I don't continually have to muck with my computer because of Windows!
Linspire is my first encounter with Linux. I hear it isn't even the best version, but I am completely happy with it.
Roger Born
writing.borngraphics.com
I was kind of disappointed when Dell announced these machines - I'm hoping that they'll move to a better distro in time. Fact is I, like lots of people who run small businesses, use Dell hardware because it is pretty good, pretty cheap, and the after care is excellent. However getting Linux working on said hardware is generally a pain in the proverbial. The weird thing about the choice of Linspire/Lindows/Lin--- is that Dell had been quietly supporting Red Hat on their machines for ages linux.dell.com
Lindows has Click'n Run that let users install Linux programs without recompile, without dependency issues and all under a nice GUI.
DNA in your Linux: DNALinux
I agree with this assessment, for the average non-techie home user, Lindows is probably fine, and once they get a grip on it, may feel more confident about moving on the a "real" Linux distro. But...
I never found my first Linux distro, RH8, difficult at all, technically. The graphical installer didn't seem any more challenging than Windows, and when it was done, everything was there: browser, OpenOffice, games... What's the big deal?
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
It seemed obvious that something was wrong with this story the first time it was discussed on /. because there were no links to Dell.
u estar/
The Register confirms that this move has little to do with Dell:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/07/dell_vs_q
- Brian.
They need to get back on track and help contribute to that 1 billion windows installs. We'll never make that 2010 deadline if they keep this shit up....
"All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
I'd like to know how many /. users have acutally used Linspire/Lindows. It seems to me that there is a large negative cloud that follows this distribution but the cloud isn't substantiated by actual use. The main negative issue that seems to always come up is the "runs as root" issue. Well, that's been resolved. When you first log in, you can choose to create a user other than root. Plus, look at the bigger picture. Linspire is designed with the END USER in mind. Not your typical linux user who likes to re-install their system frequently or likes to wrestle with dependencies when installing applications. I've been using Linspire since last November. It hasn't been perfect but I'll tell you, it's been the best linux distro I've ever used. The combination of a Dell system and an easy-to-use DESKTOP linux distribution is win-win. Heck, any PC being sold with linux preloaded is a win for the open source community. Remember, it's not a competition between linux distros, it's a competition between Linux, MacOS, and MS Windows.
Loop 1
1. Microsoft selected which OEM makers would be allowed steep discounts on its bundled software for about the last decade.
2. This pruned the small, Mom & Pop OEMs, speeding up the process of a few bigger industry members becoming dominant.
3. Even though Microsoft generally did business with all the remaining larger OEMs, raising the threshold startup costs for new competitors entering the market made the competition one limited to the existing ones, which helped trigger and speed up the OEM shakedown that has left Dell in a dominant position.
4. Dell, being number 1, becomes powerful enough to push back at Microsoft, at least a little.
5. Micosoft profits fall as they have to cut a better deal with Dell.
Loop 2
1. Microsoft delays production of Longhorn and other software repeatedly.
2. Newer, faster computers not needed to run newer, bigger programs.
3. Industy wide OEM sales become sluggish, Dell doesn't have the profit margin to push very hard at Microsoft, but Microsoft can't afford to gouge Dell with the whole industry tepid.
4. If Microsoft succeeds in selling bigger, shinyier software that raises OEM sales numbers, Dell gains more power to break away. If Microsoft fails, Dell sales become flat, with no margin to be shaved off to increase MS profits.
Who is John Cabal?
I think the first big vendor[1] to properly commit to shipping Linux-based systems has the opportunity to make a killing.
Anyone can sell a cheap x86 box (Windows or Linux) to Joe Sixpack.
The first big vendor that offers a complete Linux system can really rack up the profits. By system I mean modem, networking, scanner and printer. The vendor would be in a position to (somewhat) honestly claim "if you don't buy from us, good luck getting it to work." Reinvest the MS-tax in Crossover Office, so they can advertise compatibility with Office, Photoshop, etc[2].
[1] Big == national, with an advertising budget to reach non-geeks.
[2] Having Office compatibility makes switching to Linux easier to swallow for Joe Sixpack -- even if he never uses it.
While not the only thing to consider, is a similarly equip'd system cheaper than one with XP on it? I'm just wondering what 'value' joe user will see when considering Linux. Unfortuantely a cheaper price will need to lead the way.
Additionally if you can order boxen with Linux, then you SHOULD be allow to order 'naked' boxen from Dell, with no OS present. Currently you CAN do this, but only through their 'small business' section.
That's how I'd like to do it, but if I have to get Linspire on it, that'd be fine, I'd just need to do a fresh Slackware install once the box was in my hands.
CBVDS
free ipod and free gmail!
I bet this is a ploy by Dell to obtain more favourable terms for its OEM licenses from Microsoft.
One can expect them to drop Linux again in a few weeks once they have been to Redmond to have a personal talk with Bill and Steve
(you know MS dont want to loose one of their biggest resellers)
...back at version 3 (or before), when the flaws that everyone parrots existed. It was a nice distro regardless.
Installing it was as easy as putting the disc in, turning the computer on, making at most TWO very clear choices, and when it finally booted to the desktop, things looked pretty good.
I believe the "user runs as root" flaw has since been abolished, and I hear it is now pretty easy to turn it back into Debian once installed.
I don't know if it is one of the best distros, but once it escapes its stigma, it just might be.
Any bad image associated with LinSpire is probably due to its antagonistic CEO.
That's not DrDOS--that's a virus! It must be cuz Windows told me so
I fear Lindows, because it's basic installation is 'run as root' in order to simplify things. IMHO this is no better than Win9X or WinNT with the first/prime user set up as Admin, and perhaps worse because new Lindows users will be even more ignorant that they were on Windows. They will be more susceptible to human-engineering attacks because they'll have less experience, and because they think they're getting better security just by moving away from Windows.
IMHO, Lindows should have set up root and a default user, and a bunch of sudo gui programs to admin the box. The default user should have been a random name, with the installation option to change to a user-chosen name. Then use the autologin feature of gdm/kdm/xdm so the system boots to a ready-to-just-use state.
Next thought... Include something like pam_usb hooked into the sudo, and include a USB memory key. The installation process sets up the key, and then you plug it in to administer the box. Make the user aware that the key IS the security, and not to leave it just plugged in. Possibly even limit the admin that can be done while the network is up. Include a sticky hook so it can be stored on the system.
Does Linspire run users as root?
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Dell just recently clarified the situation in an artivcle on zdnet.com located here .
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Competition reduces cost - economics 101.
Or is it just a bundle with a zero priced OS. Thanks to the BSA, shipping an OS with a PC is mandatory in some parts of the world.
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
Dell should choose a Europian distro like Mandrake and/or SuSE, PLD/ALT for eastern europe
The fact that Dell is supporting any linux distribution is what's significant here.
By supporting linux as the OS as a vendor, you automatically guarantee hardware support for at least one distribution.
It should be noted that Questar is loading Linux on these Dell "white boxes". Dell has nothing to do with this decision. FWIW, Dell offers a "white box" service to mom&pop shops that don't want to build their own PCs. Once you become a distributor, you simply roll your own packages and sell the PC as your own brand. Questar is simply a white box distributor.
ANYONE can go out and do this. It doesn't mean that Dell has anything to do with selling Linux. This is secondary.
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
Dell: We've begun offering Linux as another desktop OS.
MSFT: We know you've been dealing with this--Open Source--for some time now. We're willing to give you a clean slate, a 75% discount on Windows, if you help us bring a known danger to the software industry to its knees.
Dell: Well, that sounds like a pretty good deal. But I think I've got a better one. How about: you give us the discount, and we keep selling Linux computers. {flips off the MS rep}
MSFT: What good is a Linux computer--if you are unable to sell Windows?
Dell: {Picks up phone} Hello, Department of Justice?
DoJ: Yeah, we know all about it. We're sending Donald Rumsfeld, and he's bringing his Sodomy Bat of Justice.
Fry's sold $100 door-buster computers at their grand opening, each loaded with Linspire, 128Mb Ram.
Excited, I flip the switch get to a screen with Linspire, Diagostics, If you choose Linsire, it flashes to a boot screen and ends in a blinking cursor. If you choose Diagnostics, it says "Screen" can't start up.
Google shows a newb a year and a half ago, with the exact same error of the exact same model (Great Quality). A forum admin asked what the specs were. Newb said no idea, bumped it 3 times and said Linux is crap.
So I hope it's a hardware issue, add 512 memory, no change. Take of the KVM, no change, reinstalled with XP, and resold it for $400.
Don't get me wrong, I want to be familiar with Linux badly. But it hurts credibility badly with vendors dumping boxes that go to a blinking cursor. That's why we should load something like Freedos for cheapos and Linux for high-end machines.
From a Business point of view, the Giants (IBM, Sun, Dell) seem to be sharpening their teeth to get ready to provide Linux Desktop solutions for big corporations and Government departments worldwide. IBM and Sun have actually been doing it, and actually deploying solutions, and Novell just jumped in. Intel IS lagging behind IMHO. Not that I care :-)
On the one hand I would like to see Linux gain market share and Dell could make this possible.
On the other hand though, I like Linux as a "guru" OS that seperates the men from the boys.
If Dell has it their way, they would be getting into the market to take away my service sales here also.
Dell and HP/Compaq have already taken my hardware sales.
(shortly before abandoning it). If you want Linux it, you go out and get it yourself, exactly the flavour that you need. I certainly don't want to be railroaded into paying for a Lin*whatever desktop any more than I want to pay for a Windows install.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
I find it interesting dell will try an obscure distro of linux but they still won't come out with any PC with arguably superior AMD cpu's. It's not so radical- after all HP also offers AMD
Join Team Mozilla #38050 Folding@home
Dell is a major PC manufacturer, so by 'offering' Linux as an 'alternative' they could be leaning on Microsoft for some sort of better deal, perhaps a slight lessening of the cost for each copy of Windows they buy? We all know in this day and age 'Cost is King' and every dollar they save will likely help them save loads of new computers.
http://michfilmfestival.com
http://a2tech.us
Could this be a real attempt to gain a foothold before any of the other distributors do?
No, because other companies like HP and IBM, just to name a couple, have been selling and supporting Linux workstations for some time already.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
I guess hp is pitching mandrake now as well. It was a surprise to me to see that. I thought that they were going to preload suse, but I guess i'm out of the loop.
this sig is deprecated
Uh...you can order several single and dual processor Dells with Red Hat Enterprise preloaded. Dell Workstations
[RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
No, it's not testing the market. They're just trying to circumvent Microsoft's ire for daring to offer a competing product.
market a Linux distro with a flaw/bug that will make users reject it.
Conspiracy Theorist and former Nader supporter
. ,
Help end the use of Sigs. Tomorrow
Does Linspire still have the default root login thing I heard so much about? How's their security compared to other distros?
In 1998 Dell sold LapTops with Linux on them. You couldn't find it in their catalog, they didn't openly advertise it. You could call them and request linux on a laptop. Shortly thereafter, Dell and Microsquat has a little chat. Dell suddenly pulled this ability and no more laptops were available with linux. They also sold laptops and computers WITHOUT operating systems installed, just a box of hardware. After Mr. Gates' chat with Dell, this practice was also abandoned.
--E--
so that you can install what ever you want.
I am more interested if Dell will use AMD cpu, instead of what OS they choose.
since I can always wipe out the HD and install the OS I like.
but the limited hardware option would be a real concern, when dell is the vendor with good price
...is testing the market for linux through their yellowdog resellers?
Not that it is a bad thing. It is definitely a Good Thing (TM). Just take it with perspective.
My journal. Mainly about freedom.
To answer the question, "Is Dell just testing the market?"
Yes.
Just as you mention, it's not the first time someone has tested the market and it's not going to be the last time. That's what companies do. Make something they think might sell and try it out to see what happens.
Linux will be a mainstream desktop OS when one of the tests succeed. At that point, everyone else in the industry will copy whoever tested the latest Linux desktop successfully.
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
Linux needs a powerful brand to succeed on the desktop -- just like how Apple and Microsoft have powerful brands. Linux's technical capabilities are completely irrelevent.
Successfully marketing Linux as a shrinkwrap product to compete with Microsoft/Apple requires an enormous degree of sales, marketing, and management resources. Unless I missed something, Linspire just doesn't have it.
Dell is throwing its money away, and so are most people who buy these systems.
Linux is of a species of software that the end user who sees their computer as a VCR or a toaster won't understand. It's completely possible to take Linux and refactor it into such a device and make that the de facto standard (kind of like taking the internet, lobotomizing it, and packaging it and calling it "AOL"), but that's going to take serious work.
"Owning" Linux in the way that hardcore geeks own it is not a prospect that most end users can deal with.
Perhaps Dell wants a Linux distro no one wants so they can report back to the public about how Linux failed because it wasn't ready for the desktop? How much would M$ pay for that to happen with a household name like Dell?
Hmmmmm?!
Where the future is...
... consumer level desktop,at least now they don't, they offer a *corporate* desktop designed to be used by employees and installed and run and kept fixed and updated by professional sysadmins. Fedora is a hobbiest/developer community distro, it's not pushed at all as an entry level mom and pop and sis and junior distro either. I don't know about suse or any of the others. How many actual true beginners level distros are there in *fact* as opposed to *slashdot theory*, anyway? Linspire, xandros, what else? As far as I know, that's about it.
The others can get *close*, but close ain't good enough, it has to really be there to be offered as an entry level beginners distro, the stuff has to work first time, every time, no CLI tweaking should be necessary to fit that bill. It doesn't matter if you can, what matters is if you *have to*, to set it up and run it effectively, and that means, sound has to work, media apps have to work, your display should work, you should be able to get online easy, etc, etc. The desktop competition is windows, and apple, and say what you want about them, good and bad, you don't have to touch a command line or know what to type on the command line to get all that stuff to work with those two companies products. Any linux home consumer desktop has to match or exceed that. So, how many distros fit the bill then?
the number one goal for Dell is to not piss off Microsoft.
Why? Because Linspire and any other future desktop-targeted Linux distro needs to be just like Windows and OS X in that they are literally 'plug and play' distros. No new computer user wants to install, configure, or tweak their system right out of the box; they want to use it. They want programs that say what they are: "Internet" "E-mail" on an easily understandable start menu. When they do want to change something like the desktop wallpaper or themes, they want something that is straight to the point and gets the job done. When the time comes that they need to install new software, it needs to be as easy as downloading a package and double clicking it (or something similar, like an easy-as-pie, not cryptically named version of 'synaptec' (sp?)).
So I'd say this is basically a good move. Linspire is easy to use. Xandros is easy to use. Both are commercial but if that's what it's going to take for computer distributors like Dell and HP to get Linux to the users, so be it. Even the candy-colored, 'easy to use' Mandrake isn't an ideal desktop for newbies.
Now, if a bunch of Gentoo l33ts out there want to get together and create a Gentoo-based distro with a straightforward, gui installer (anaconda???), simple and easy to use default gnome interface configured with an appealing theme and icons, with internet, e-mail, IM, games, and office apps installed by default, and a pretty GUI interface to portage ("What would you like to install today?"), then you might have a more free Linux distro that both newbies and linux gurus can agree upon...
eric http://www.ericdfields.com/
Dell still offers a Linux workstation. It comes with RedHat Enterprise Linux. They also have OSless desktops.
Don't get too excited though. It is still cheaper to buy a system preloaded with Windows XP than it is to purchase the exact system without an OS. I recently compared an Optiplex 170L (w/XP) to an Optiplex 170LN (w/FreeDOS on disk but not installed). The 170L came in at $593 while the 170LN with the exact same hardware and support contract was $716. Go figure. Mad propz to the U.S. Justice Department for keeping the Microsoft monopoly in check [end sarcasm].
www.sguil.net
The Analyst Console for NSM
Linspire is built on a Debian foundation, it can be altered to use APT and then upgraded for free.
So it's not a bad choice, plus the OS will be tailored to the hardware and setup nicely. So no complaints about hardware not working and Linux being hard to install etc..
I've heard worse news before.
Dell is NOT installing Linspire. This is Michael Robertsons method of getting you to INFER that his product has been selected by a company with a good reputation.
The extension of a positive feeling about one company (DELL) to influence the judgement of an unknown product (LINDOWS/LINSPIRE) is a false and not logical conclusion.
Robertson uses this effect in other matters as well.
Lindows | Windows
- Positive halo is the association with
the term 'windows' which is known throughout
the world as a desktop operating system.
- Accentuates the negatives of the MS
Monopoly and our our version *indows
is less expensive. Believe me, Michael
wants to own his own Monopoly. Look
at Click-n-Run - it's a monopoly strategy.
lTunes | iTunes
- Trades on the good marketing of Apple
computer to assign all the "goodness"
of the iTunes platform to lTunes without
having to spend any time really adding
"goodness" to lTunes.
Sigh - slashdot - read twice, publish once.
If you knew they were testing the market, then why did you "Ask Slashdot" if they were? If you are going to ask people what they think, please try not to bias their answers.
- un1xl0ser
v4sw6PU$hw6ln6pr4F$ck 4/6$ma3+6u7LNS$w2m4l7U$i2e4+7en6a2X h
I don't know about elsewhere, but here in Minneapolis, MN Dell has been running an ad campaign, radio and print promoting Oracle on Linux. -Brent
I work for Dell and we are imaging Linspire on the hard drives for Questar at our factory. I personally worked with Lindows to get an image so we could ghost the drives for questar. Dell will be shipping Linspire installed systems to other countries via resellers in the coming months.
Same way as the Terminator will view them... in red, with a menu with options on how to eliminate the target... Dell.
Of course. I cannot believe that after Dell's demante and the follow-up news they can still create such stupid speculative post
Lately some articles here remind me of The Onion - untrue and laughable.
Id rather see Dell test the waters with AMD. Not that I hate linux or anything. I use it daily for work. Its not something I would use on my computer though. I think its wrong to assume that any move away from windows is a good move. After all, Windows is not THAT bad. It is really easy to use. I doubt you could say the same about all the linux distos. Although I hear many-a-claim that its soooo easy. Maybe to people who have been trained on it. Anyhow, maybe it will put some preasure on MS to actually improve windows and give us a better product..feel free to mod me down.
I'm reading lots of detailed analysis on how Dell is planning this or that, putting pressure on MS, etc etc. In actuality, there's a very simple equation. If they sell lots of Linux boxes, they'll offer more. If the cost of developing a standard install and supporting them is too high, they'll stop offering the system.
Contrary to Slashdot belief, there's no huge pent-up demand for Linux desktop systems. There will be no stampede. But maybe their margins will be high enough to keep offering them.
I have been an IT professional for many years, but I have changed job and in the last years I have just been a pure user, and as a pure user I can tell you that I do not care about the operating system. Not even about the applications, as far as they do what they are expected to do.
All I expect from the PC is that it adequately plays sound and video files, it allows me to edit text documents, spreadsheets or presentations in a way that is, more or less, the one I am used to, and that is it, because I have other and more important problems and no time to waste playing with the machine.
So, in the end, the operating systems choice, whether Linux, Windows or any other, should not be a real issue for the buyer. This is why Microsoft thinks that it is necessary to spend so much money in advertising, and also in other less clear marketing activities. They make big efforts trying to convince the people of the importance of the operating system because it hasn't got any importance, but they do not want users to realize this for obvious reasons.
With the European judgement, Dell is looking at Microsoft as being problematic in the Europe. So what do they do?
Punt.
Face it. MS is looking bad in Europe. It doesn't really help the bottom line to ONLY be selling MS OS's. So by stuffing in Linspire, they sorta' be offering an alternative...
Or at least, that is what the Dell PR Dept. thinks...
Personally, I think it all sounds like bullshit.
IANAL, but I've seen actors play them on TV
The terms of the settlement prevent MS from offering different prices to different OEM's. So Dell would be very foolish if that was their tactic. What they might be doing is trying to increase the rebate^H^H^H price they get for participating in the "OEM recommends Microsoft Windows Version" campaign that was set up to get around that restriction.
Vastly more interesting to me would be if a major vendor started shipping all their computers with Mozilla based browser and e-mail, and OpenOffice as an alternative to the very expensive Microsoft Office. Get people used to using the open tools, then the next time you sell a computer you can sell an open OS.
I'm yawning over this story. They might as well be pre-installing FreeDOS for as much good Linspire will do me. I'm not knocking Linspire, it's just not my system of choice.
I want to see Dell provide an options for shipment without an OS. This would help everyone, even the Windows users. Examples:
1) Debian users won't be paying for Linspire. Even if it's only $5 of the price, that's still $5 too much.
2) Windows XP Professional users won't be paying $100 for Windows XP Home.
3) Corporate Windows XP Pro users won't be paying tens of thousands of dollars for Windows licenses that they won't be using, since they already have a license for that drive image they're going to ghost to all of their machines.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
I think this is the future of the computer retail business.
A "good enough for most applications" PC can be manufactured and sold by the likes of dell for less than 500$ with acceptable quality.
Except for the fan noise, the design and the keyboard, the average computer user will not see any difference between the different vendors offerings, so he will make his purchasing decision on price and convenience of purchase.
However, the $500 price tag is only a smaller and smaller part of the cost for the user, because he will have to set up the system software for his environment.
Therefore, I think in the future, the customer will not want to buy a "3GHZ Windows XP Computer", but an "office workstation", a "home computer", an "education PC" or a "file and Backup Server".
Here is an example:
I would be in the market right now for two of the following "Internet Access" systems:
A PC running a several browsers for different users, either natively or in several vmware instances, that are acessed over VNC connections or X-Sessions from within an intranet. The PC would be isolated from the intranet by a small router (if possible, built into the PC on an PCI card or better in a USB Stick) that would only allow e.g. VNC sessions from the intranet.
The PC would boot from a DVD (Knoppix-Like) an would store cookies and URLs in a USB-Flash stick.
A DSL Modem would be preconfigured (An ISP might market this box).
If there was such a system on order for around $700, I would immediately order two for my sister and my parents small business.
But buying all the componetnts and configuring the software currently is too much hassle for me, so a sale is lost for the PC industry.
Dell basically sells linux with optiplex workstations and latittude with Linux only via special which is hidden in back pages of their website. But if you go through their home/home office section, you don't see the linux mentioned. Ultimately, I dont think its becuase Redmond is pulling their strings, but rather it is too costly to support for little demand. Look past the basic install and factor in all the bundled software, drivers, help software and support. Some of this is written in-house and some is rebranded but all only support windows. Dell would have to extend extra expense supporting a linux alternative which would drive up cost of their systems. This would hurt their bottom-line in the end.
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
Its great to see a major player like dell finally taking steps to bring opensource to the masses rather than just the corporate world.
Click here to find out what true knowledge real
Linspire is a consumer distro - that's the big news here. they aren't targeting the workplace with workstation-class machines set up with corporate-friendly red hat - they're targeting average joes and josephines.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
Did you read this? Why Dell is scurrying to cover its tracks in Linspire deal
Yes. Dell offers RedHat Linux on all of their workstation class computers.
and found it pretty easy to get going and easy to use in all but one particular installation where I had display configuration issues. Their "Warehouse" by subscription has worked seamlessly for installing new aps. Obviously it's not for the numerous OS geeks that hang out here, but a lot of "average" users could make good use of it very easily.
As a number of folks here have pointed out, it's not really Dell that is selling preinstalled Linpire, but rather one of their resellers, but I think it's a very good sign.
I lost my sig. No reward if found, though.
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
I just read this press release by Xandros http://www.xandros.com/news/press/release24.html
It is as follows:
Acadia University Provides Xandros Desktop OS on Dell Laptops to Undergraduate Students
Easy-to-use Xandros Desktop OS is the Linux Distribution of Choice for Unique Notebook Driven Program
NEW YORK, NY -- Xandros, the leading developer of easy-to-use Linux solutions, and Acadia University today announced that Acadia University selected the Xandros Desktop Operating System (OS) as the Linux distribution of choice for its undergraduate students. The innovative Canadian university offers a customized version of the Xandros Desktop OS on Dell D600 laptops as part of its unique teaching and learning environment which is providing 9,000 notebook computers over three years to its students and faculty.
"Acadia students depend on their notebooks to complete their coursework and participate in class," said Dr. Gail Dinter-Gottlieb, President and Vice-Chancellor of Acadia University. "With the Xandros Desktop they can feel comfortable in conducting research and completing assignments. Xandros provides flawless wireless connections, while off campus students and faculty can dial in to our extensive campus network."
"We needed a total Linux solution for both faculty and students," said Mike Grimm, Atlantic Region Account Executive for Dell Canada. "We found that the Xandros Desktop provided excellent network integration and ease of use, plus it works flawlessly on our Latitude laptops enabling the students of Acadia to meet their challenging day-to-day computing requirements."
"Acadia's commitment to innovation is evident across academic disciplines through its technology-rich teaching and learning environment that integrates university-supplied notebook computers into the undergraduate curriculum," said Dr. Frederick H. Berenstein, Xandros Chairman and CTO. "We are honored to be the Linux desktop of choice for the Acadia's unique program and look forward to an ongoing relationship that keeps both Acadia and Xandros in the forefront of technological innovation."
Acadia's students receive Dell Latitude D600 notebooks for use during the academic year, and their computers become an integral part of their learning experience. The Xandros Lab has certified the Xandros Desktop OS on the Dell D600 model, including the detection and operation of wireless network cards and other peripherals.
Dr. Berenstein added that "we believe that Linux will play an enormous role in the educational market, as it offers schools and universities a cost-effective, stable and secure computing environment for their students. Software applications being developed for the educational market are amazingly useful, incredibly compact and fast. And with twenty-five countries voting to wire their school systems to the Internet with Linux, there will soon be hundreds of millions of students surfing the net with Linux on their desktops."
The Xandros Desktop OS provides students and teachers with a familiar set of tools that integrate seamlessly with existing Windows environments and wireless networks. For educational options and site licenses, please contact schools@xandros.com
About Xandros
Founded in 2001 with headquarters in New York and research and development facilities in Ottawa, Xandros, Inc. is the leading developer of easy-to-use Linux solutions targeting home and enterprise markets. Xandros pioneered a low-cost alternative operating system that provides seamless compatibility with Microsoft Windows programs and networks. For more information please visit www.xandros.com
About Acadia University
Located in Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Acadia was the first university in Canada to integrate notebook computers into the undergraduate curriculum. Through its technology-rich teaching and learning environment, students use today's technology to develop the advanced analytical skills they need to adapt to ever-changing study and work environments. For more information please visit www.acadiau.ca
Maybe more is going on than we thought.
Dude,
Since you reinstall from scratch, you get the privilege of paying more than for a Windows machine for something you wipe out anyway. You install a FREE OS, and pay MORE than for the same machine with Windows.
I genuinely believe you have just documented the IDIOT TAX.
Dude, you're not gettin' a CLUE!
MR:I will email you all these crappy garage rock mp3s I own thanks to mp3.com all day, everyday until you buy my OS.
Dell: Holy crap, he's serious.
MR: Here they come!
Dell: My ears! Oh, the agony. Here take the check!
I think any large company offering desktops with any form of Linux for the everyday user is fantastic. If you are familiar with Windows, Linspire would seem to be the next step towards putting a better operating system on your computer, for 2 reasons:
#1 - Your family and friends don't have to have their heads stuck in a computer all day (like most of us) to use the operating system. Linspire is arguably the most user friendly Linux system out there. If you are unfamiliar with Linspire - check out their site - http://www.linspire.com/sales_intro.php
#2 - If you are in any way familiar with Windows environments, Linspire offers something almost identical, plus applications that are similar to MS Office and an online warehouse of more than 2000 software titles available to download - most for free and some to buy.
I've been thinking about ditching WinXP Pro and getting Linspire myself.
I think it's a good next step - but Dell should advertise about it.