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Rendezvous Renamed to OpenTalk
Gogo Dodo writes "Back in August, Slashdot covered Tibco suing Apple over the Rendezvous trademark.
AppleInsider now reports that the lawsuit has been settled and Rendezvous' new name will be OpenTalk." Meanwhile Zeroconf sits in the corner and cries.
Apple (and MS) are both being sued over 6 patents held by BTG, which their pnline updating systems allegedly violate.
Link here.
Looks like fun and games ahead for Apples lawyers.
Okay, this time I mean it: No more product-based body modification.
Tibco gets sued by Buick, which has a car named Rendezvous.
I for one welcome our new [insert main topic] overlords.
Cue "Lindevous" jokes.
The Cheese Stands Alone.
The average consumer can interperse the general meaning of "OpenTalk" where Rendezvous does nothing to describe what the technology does.
Besides, peole don't like names they can't pronounce and makes them feel like idiots. "What is that?"
...yup...
Sounds too much like AppleTalk.
I can hear the IT folks gripping.
I, for one, welcome our translucent overlords.
Since when has Open* meant something was open source? Ever use OpenWindows? Adding Open in front of everything trying to indicate it's free software is a relatively new manifestation. I doubt the FSF cares since they prefer to use the term free.
I'm sure Apple registered that trademark a LONG time ago. In fact, I think it's been used before for something else.
LocalTalk, OpenTalk, PowerTalk, AppleTalk, MacinTalk, KanjiTalk, ZhongWenTalk, etc. etc.
Maybe:
'New for quasi-intellectual, artistic elitists. Stuff that splatters.'
No. But seriously, has this place become all Apple, all the time?
There was a time the Open Source Initiative (opensource.org) tried to make Open Source a trademark, but it didn't work out. "Open Source" as a term pre-dates the "Open Source" as a replacement term for Free Software by a long time.
In addition, various groups used the "Open" word before Open Source, such as HP's "OpenView" desktop environment.
Yes, it looks like Apple is trying to purposefully confuse people by prepending "Open" to this product, but maybe this will prove once and for all that any term like this can be hijacked, just like the Open Source people believe that the term Free Software is easily misunderstood.
they should've named it iTalk to go along with all the other apple names.
please me, have no regrets.
"Meanwhile Zeroconf sits in the corner and cries."
Taco, if you're ignorant, then don't bother adding your comments.
OpenTalk/Rendezvous IS ZeroConf!! OpenTalk/Rendezvous are just the names given to Apple's implementation of ZeroConf.
Just like:
* 801.11b/g was named AirPort
* 30" LCD display was names "cinema display"
* CIFS implementation is known as Samba
* IEEE1394 is known as Firewire
Zeroconf is known as OpenTalk/Rendezvous!
Is that clear now ?
- mritunjai
Now that Apple's got a pretty good speech-recognition and text-to-speech engine, all the networking talks have to compete with the real talking for cute marketing terminology, such as "PlainTalk."
[
Maybe the FSF or someone in that league should try to trademark Open* names and reserve them for Open programs?
You idiot, Rendezvous is openBut then again, I don't expect somone with a UID as high as 761208 to know that...
With the kind of coverage Apple has been getting lately not only on Slashdot, but also on news.google for example, you would expect Apple to have greater than 2 or 3 percent market share.
Maybe the FSF or someone in that league should try to trademark Open* names and reserve them for Open programs?
Under USPTO regulations, I do not believe that you are allowed to "reserve" trademark names. I believe that you can only trademark names that you are actually using in active commerce or that you are actively preparing to launch in commerce. This is probably a good thing, because otherwise it would be like the situation with domain names -- people registering hundreds or thousands of names that they have no intention of ever using on the hope that they will pre-empt somone else's usage, and then extort a payoff.
I think you misread/failed to read the article. Apple is changing their product's name. Tibco is not.
As for this article, let this be a lesson to you: if you sue Apple over a name, it is you who will end up having to change your name.
What? _Apple_ is changing their name, not the company.
I've heard of not reading the article (RTFA), but rarely seen someone who didn't even read the summary.
Ummm, no. T'other way around. Kind of.
Given that the issue was that there were two things called 'rendezvous' the statement:
:-)
Rendezvous' new name will be OpenTalk
doesn't really help
Slashdot looked deep within my soul and assigned
me a number based on the order in which I joined
Rendezvous (or OpenTalk or whatever) already is, and always has been open source.
e zv ous/
http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/rend
- proton
Isnt the line "Or will it be OpenSource like the name hints at?" more relevant to your bashing of my high UID? ;)
The system had the verbosity of HTML combined with all the readability of compiled assembly viewed as bitmap images
Note that "Open" doesn't imply "Open Source". I'd say it would be a reasonable name if the "OpenTalk" protocols are published and freely available to third parties (I have no idea if Apple is planning this or not).
If so, that certainly fits one definition of "Open".
Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
Score: -1 100% Flamebait
The summary did not really mention WHICH Rendezvous is to be renamed.
Especially after they have put so much effort into branding the Rendezvous name. But oh well, guess they don't have much choice.
Your Windows PC is my other computer.
Right, but the original poster was asking about the possibility of a group trademarking "Open", I would guess in regards to software.
As you pointed out, this would be too vague to be an effective trademark, and so I'm concluding that the term is not immune to abuse or misunderstanding, which were the stated reasons for its coinage and use.
Is there a Mozilla implementation?
Apple is one of the few companies creating innovative technologies and doing stuff that matters with it.
For example last night, I picked up an Airport Express. From unpacking to hearing streaming music on my stereo, less than 5 minutes.
Is WiFi new? No.
Is streaming music new? No.
But Apple has taken the same basic building blocks everyone else has to play with and made something innovative.
The iPod is the same story.
Frankly I'm surprised you can understand it either, with a UID as high as 212035!
What were you guys doing when Slashdot started taking accounts, reading Byte?
/greger
Translate that headline in French and it give you something like Tibco doesn't want you to use the word "meeting" or "appointment"
c h?q=rendezvou s
Or more simply, the English word rendezvous.
http://dictionary.reference.com/sear
can they realy do that?
I know, it's like the old Windows vs windows (and no, I won't mention french windows) but think about it.
Tibco's Rendezvous can be used to the do same task as Apple's Rendezvous, i.e. dynamic configuration. They both use multicast and don't require server endpoint configurations like addresses, etc. However Tibco's Rendezvous can also do generic, certified, and transactional messaging and hence Apple's product description does harm by implying Tibco's software has less capabilities, i.e. inferior, to what it really is.
To update the trademark links, Tibco was formally Teknekron:
CoffeeTalk!
Oops, I misRTFS.
I'd say it would be a reasonable name if the "OpenTalk" protocols are published and freely available to third parties (I have no idea if Apple is planning this or not).
They already did. They've released code for Windows and Linux so they can make use of this technology. They even wrote an IE plugin. Not to mention that Apple programmers wrote the white papers on ZeroConf/Rendezvous/OpenTalk.
Rendezvous/OpenTalk is an implementation of ZeroConf, ZeroConf is an open standard, therefore Rendezvous/OpenTalk is an implementation of an open standard.
Beyond that, Apple's source code for their mDNSResponder (the core of Rendezvous/OpenTalk) has been available under the APSL since it debuted in jaguar, and therefore is open source.
So I'd say OpenTalk is a reasonable name to use (espescially in comparison with AppleTalk which did the same thing in an apple only sort of way).
OpenTalk (ne Rendezvous) IS open.
Source Downloads
Shrewd marketing. Rendezvous always sounded kinda French to me.
Everybody knows us Amurricans in the red states don't like nothin' French. Suddenly I feel like goin' out and buyin' me a big bunch o' Apples!
When all you have is an axe, everything looks like a grindstone.
Idoit.
Nice one, m8.
google these things before they settle on a name? Tibco's Rendevous has been around for a while. It takes 5 seconds and saves big headaches later . . .
There was that OpenTransport thing Apple used to have on Classic. They could've just resurrected that name, couldn't they? Maybe call it OpenTransportX or something. Or iTransport. Or iNetwork or iTalk.
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
Does anyone know of open source tools for configuring Macs using ZeroConf? It would be nice to have printers auto-configured when mac users plug into our UNIX network. For now they can use IP or the samba service, but those require that the user actually know something.
it looks like Apple is trying to purposefully confuse people by prepending "Open" to this product
<sarcasm>Yes, deliberately using the term "open" to describe an open standard based on an open source project is just so sneaky and underhanded...</>
LocalTalk,
A ppleTalk,n jiTalk, ... HyperTalk!
OpenTalk,
EtherTalk,
PowerTalk,
MovieTalk,
PlainTalk,
MacinTalk,
Ka
TokenTalk,
and lest we forget
How about a Talk to unite all 'Talks?
It does not get any better stealing from foreigners in this case the French.
How wouild you all feel if a French company decided to Trademark Meeting it's laughable.
Help fight continental drift.
will be to go through the dictionary and append the word prefixes "Open", "G", "e", "Free", "K", and "i" to every word and then trademark them. I will be the King of Trademarks. Anyone contemplating releasing any computer product must pay me unreasonably large amounts of money. I will be rich!
Ok.. Let's get started, OpenAardvark(tm)(R), GAardvark(tm)(R), e-Aardvark(tm)(R), FreeAardvark (tm)(R), KAardvark (tm)(R), iAardvark(tm)(R).....
's cause Slashdot is not a democracy, it's a cheerocracy....
..or something like that..
Boxing Equipment Reviews
Of course, most market share numbers are based on sales over a given time period. And Apple folks tend to hang on to their machines for a much longer time than PC folks (e.g. I'm typing this on an almost 6-year-old PowerBook G3 running OS X 10.2.8), which means that market share != usage share. A lot of Apple users will even skip a processor generation - people are replacing their old Blue & White G3 towers now with G5 machines. Bring on the G5 PowerBooks!
"Plugh!"
OpenTalk, AppleTalk, HyperTalk, LocalTalk, MacinTalk... ...BabelTalk, YadayadaTalk, JargonTalk...
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Cool stuff deserves news coverage.
You left out the best-forgotten TokenTalk!
We bought a card once for a box that went to a client site circa '98. I remember it being pretty expensive, but most Token Ring stuff was.
So, being eMaculated will make you feel like "one of the guys" again? :)
A lot of Apple users will even skip a processor generation
Or two. Or just upgrade their Mac and span it across 5-6 years (assuming it's a desktop).
Well... it does a little. :-)
How wouild you all feel if a French company decided to Trademark Meeting it's laughable.
Why, I'd nuke them into guacamole, of course. :-)
--- Ban humanity.
I'll bite and be the one that actually types 'zeroconf' into google for you:
f orge.net/
http://www.zeroconf.org
http://zeroconf.source
Oh, I'm being mean again. I'm sorry.
--- Ban humanity.
Apple's Rendezvous and Tibco's Rendezvous aren't competing products. IANAL, but I thought that trademark law only applied to the names of competing products and the names of competing businesses. This is just another case of a wacky judge thinking that all things computer are the same. Tibco doesn't even ship a version of Rendezvous for the Mac. Apple isn't pushing their Rendezvous on *nix and Windows users. There's no confusion of the consumer here.
You can check Rendezvous out here.
I think Apple (along with Microsoft, Yahoo!, AOL, Jabber, and others) ought to slap them right back with a lawsuit for defaming iChat (and other clients). So says the website, "TIBCO Rendezvous is the only messaging software that delivers true real-time publish/subscribe and request/reply messaging." Yeah, maybe that was true in 1994. Maybe.
I had a bitch of a time spelling Rondyvous/Randyvous/Rendavous... where's that freakin' spell checker!?!?
IANAL, but I've seen actors play them on TV
That would be MetaTalk.
Lump lingered last in line for brains, and the ones she got were sorta rotten and insane.
Good. Now I can finally spell it. Randevoo? Rond-debvu? Ranzdovouses? So confusing!
But OpenTalk... now THAT's easy! Way more Apple-like.
Hexy - a strategy game for iPhone/iPod Touch
You're new here, aren't you?
You know what?
Rendezvous on Champs-Elysees
Leave Paris in the morning on T.E.E.
Actually, I wander why it was not named "FreedomTalk"?
No sig today.
To the age old question, "Would a rose by any other name still smell as sweet?"
Slashdot Eds Link Anonymous Posts With Logged Posts
They Are Vermin Feeding On Each Other's Feces.
I Hate \.
Yep, and EtherTalk too.
I saw a list of Apple trademarks once, most of which had never been used.
To be fair, there was some POSIX compliance stuff involved on which DEC/Digital/Compaq/HP based the name change, but come on.
Which license does the original program use?
APSL, which is like "GPL for everyone but Apple".
the Rendevous program itself does not appear to be Free Software from what I found on the web site
Which web site? this one?
OpenTalk has been in use by Cincom for the Visualworks smalltalk product for a number of years now. Cincom will no doubt have something to say over apple trademarking the name since it is taken and copyrighted by Cincom. someone might want to let apple know http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/ is Cincom's smalltalk website and you can download it for free and also learn about OpenTalk
CoffeeTalk will be the networking protocol that allows your appliances to talk to one another without configuration on your kitchen network.
;)
It will be used by your Apple-branded devices: iPerk, iCool, iHeat, iWash, iToast, iBlend, iRinse, iBake...
These appliances will all run natively on OSX.
And Java will sit in the corner and cry.
It's not a program, it's a protocol, exactly like the TCP/IP and HTTP you mention. You can both write proprietary and Free Software that uses it. Which license some implementation from Apple uses is irrelevant (or do you consider HTTP to be non-Free as well because Internet Explorer and IIS use it?).
Donate free food here
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Any SmallTalk developers?
Any Messaging fans?
...spike
Ewwwwww, coconut...
Apple all you do is talk talk! Na nee na doo doo.
Think 80's pop.
It impressed me. ;-)
I thought all the people with low IDs, like 10, were in nursing homes or had passed on.
Hey, my ancient LaserJet 4 is STILL running EtherTalk, on that fancy new 10baseT networking wire--you know, the kind with the oversize telephone plug on the end? (I do have all the kit to hook it up via thinnet, but it and a disused hub are the only things left I've got with both 10base2 and 10baseT.)
Anyone want to buy an ancient LaserJet 4? I've been eyeballing one of those fancy ones that can print on both sides....
you bring a tear to my eye
Like OneTalk? Or RingTalk? Or SauronTalk?
blog |
I believe you mean pwnt.
It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
I know for a fact that OpenTalk is already trademarked by these guys.
From that page:
Opentalk
Opentalk is the new distribution framework that allows rapid implementation of distributed protocols such as SOAP. Opentalk is the basis of UDDI and SOAP implementations. In this release, the Opentalk core (the base distribution tools) has moved into product status. We expect The Opentalk tools (browsers, etc.) to ship in the next several releases.
Therefore, I propose that Apple re-rename this technology "FreedomTalk," or get the hell out of this country!!!
</jingo>
Shop as usual. And avoid panic buying.
Because now I finally know exactly what opentalk is - nd I know to avoid it. Once had a whole network of imacs that would inexplicably "lose the network" from time to time and have to be restarted before the one gone missing would be able to relocate the others. Ironically enough, the pcs with the appletalk patches seemed to work more reliably than the macs...
<URL:http://www.opentalk.com/>
They have. #10's ID was willed to him by his great-grandfather...
Dude... if you're going to put up the "...is dying" post, then will you please attempt to make it somewhat realistic and, perhaps, update it to the most recent numbers? Please? I know it's difficult for people like you to actually do any amount of work other than "copy-paste-submit," though, so I expect little will change...
I'm just afraid that The Island is going to suffer from overcrowding with this many people on...
If you think you're getting it in my will now, you're in for a shock.
You probably don't even remember when the topic icons were added to the top of the page!
It has been a component of VisualWorks Smalltalk 5i from late 1999. http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/WebServices/
but if you toke 'n' talk you will likely say something dumb
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
I thought zeroconf was it's own thing but don't know enough about it to dispute the poster.
AppleTalk is not just a transport protocol; it's a suite of networking protocols. Much of the functionality of AppleTalk was in its auto configuration ARP (Address Resolution Protocol) and NBP (Name binding protocol) as well as discovery features. Other *Talks were simply AppleTalk over non LocalTalk cables (LocalTalk was the original serial cables used to network Macs).
So as simple LocalTalk cabling was replaced by Ethernet networks, Apple referred to AppleTalk over Ethernet as "EtherTalk". TokenTalk was AT over Token Ring. "PhoneTalk" was another vendor's replacement of LocalTalk with phone lines. All the Apple *Talks were AppleTalk. Not just a transport protocol, but a whole set of AppleTalk features available on whatever data link and physical layer you installed for it.
When TCP/IP started replacing local transport protocols (such as AppleTalk and Microsoft's NetBIOS / NetBEUI), Macs generally kept using AppleTalk in addition to TCP/IP, because AppleTalk provided features unavailable in TCP/IP. In fact, Apple has tried to get rid of AppleTalk in the transition to OS X, but recently returned to turning AppleTalk on by default in new installations of OS X.
Turn off AppleTalk for Mac OS 9 users and their super simple Chooser (for browsing printers and servers) stops working, and the Mac users get upset.
Apple migrated the benefits of AppleTalk to TCP/IP and in doing so basically invented ZeroConfig. They released the technology suite to the IETF intending to make it open standard. The Rendezvous marketing name was first applied to ZeroConfig as a principle feature in Mac OS X 10.2 Jaguar.
They already had published ZeroConfig / Rendezvous as an open standard so anyone could implement the technology (as Tivo and several printer manufacturers have), but Apple has also actually written the code for POSIX and released it as open source so that Linux and Unix users could share the same benefits that Apple invented for AppleTalk over standard TCP/IP.
With that in mind, OpenTalk is a useful name to describe what ZeroConfig is and what it does. It's AppleTalk features applied to TCP/IP. Rendezvous was a mysterious marketing name that nobody seemed to get the point of without observing what some Rendezvous enabled app could do. In that sense, it was a lot like Expose: hard to explain, but instantly demonstrable.
The standard is ZeroConf, actually. Rendezvous is Apple's product name for the implementation of said standard. But maybe I just bit a troll, so who knows.
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
Because that name was in use by several parties already before they stepped on it...
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
because the true path to wisdom lies through slashdot
;o)
high UID, and proud of it
Apple isn't pushing their Rendezvous on *nix and Windows users.
Really? So what does that Renezvous SDK they released last week for Windows and Linux do then?
Tunes can be a verb. "Commander Taco tunes his piano, then tweaks his organ."
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Well it does have it's own section on slashdot so I guess it makes sense that it should have a lot of subjects at times of activity.
Two tears in a bucket. Motherfuck it.
And that's forgetting..
Jack & the BeansTalk - a networking protocol for telling tall tales?
LivesTalk - bovine communictions?
LetsTalk - The 'digital lifestyle' equivalent of a "Dear John.." letter..
Zeroconf consists of 3 things: (1) IPv4 link local configuration; (2) translate between names and IP without DNS and (3) service discovery. (let me ignore allocating IP multicast addresses)
:-)
ZeroConf, at least, the IETF workgroup of that name, is now about to close, and only tackled the first item. Item (2) is tackled both by multicast DNS (by Apple in Rendezvous) as well as LLMNR (in the less-used DNSEXT IETF workgroup). Item 3 is tackled either with DNS-SD (by Apple in Rendezvous), as well as by uglier protocols like UPnP.
Though the problem is the same, and is called "ZeroConf", the solution differ. Clearly Apple has chosen LL + mDNS + DNS-SD
But admittedly, I'm sure Taco didn't know this.
For most common talk: zeroconf = rendezvous.
"Yes, it looks like Apple is trying to purposefully confuse people by prepending "Open" to this product, but maybe this will prove once and for all that any term like this can be hijacked, just like the Open Source people believe that the term Free Software is easily misunderstood."
What are you talking about?
Firstly the "Open" in the OpenTalk name is probably referring to the fact that this product is considerably more open than for instance AppleTalk, or LocalTalk which are both entirely proprietary.
Also, the OpenTalk standard is simply Apple's name for their version of the IETF "Zero Configuration Networking" (zeroconf) standard, which in turn is a combination of other IETF standards.
If it's still not sounding open enough for you, Apple also make source code for Unix and Windows versions of OpenTalk available on their website.
But like anything that's truely standards-based, if that's still not open enough, then you or anyone else can make their own version under any license they want and test it against the reference code available from Apple.
That's open enough for me.