Slashdot Mirror
Net Addiction Gets Finnish Soldiers Out Of Army
nerdb0t writes "Reuters is reporting that the Finnish Defense Forces have allowed some men to be excused from military service because of 'Internet Addiction.' The service period is 6 months - but that's too long away from the internet for these guys. Is this a joke? Is this a legitimate illness? Hm..where can I apply for disability..."
apparent b/c i got first post.. i must be addicted to the net or at least slash dot
http://brandonbloom.name
"If I can't get my daily dose of slashdot, I'll go crazy and kill some endangered animals" - Finnish soldier
www.google.com
Now I am am going to get locked up and forced to take medications. Please don't tell anyone.
I know that computers can be addictive. Its hurt my own life a good bit. Half the things I should do, I never get around to doing because I just want to get back to the computer. Still, if your joining the army, you can afford to get off the net. Its not that bad. I once went on a 6 week vacation, and stayed of the internet for all of it, except for those internet cafes. oh, nevermind, I give up!
http://www.givedanmoney.com/
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Actually, they were not excused from military service, they were sent home and told to grow up and return in a few years for another try.
Is this a legitimate illness?
No!! But I bet John Edwards could get em' a couple million by suing the right people.
Seems to me six months on duty, away from the Internet, just might be the cure for this terrible illness.
does constantly hitting F5 on slashdot, 24/7 count?
-------
1. Enjoy your job
2. Make lots of money
3. Work within the law
Choose any two.
Im not sure if this is real but yea 6 months away would put me into a deep place of almost going insane
About two years ago I spent 2 months as a counselor at a summer camp, most of which time I had no internet access, and when I did have access it was minimal. I know this is a little pathetic, but I really felt like I was being deprived. I mean, I wasn't sick over it or anything, but it was something I genuinely missed and I was really bothered that I couldn't use it the way I was used to. That said, I don't really think that this is a legitimate sickness worthy of being discharged because of, it's really quite managable. The main way I dealt with it was reading a lot. Generally I don't read that often, but that summer I went through a few tens of books.
They don't get pardoned forever. It seems they got 'E' which means 'go home and grow a little'. So they need to come back and do their service 2-3 years later.
For record you can get 'E' just by requesting it, these guys were forced to 'E' due to addiction =)
(status of different letters in Finnish Defence Forces:
A - primary letter given to everyone, capable of active service
B - Some problem, maybe bad allergy or old injury
C - No service during peace time
D - No service (even if it's war time)
E - Service postponed )
I'm addicted to sex
How can you tell?
Recall that about half the country is above the arctic circle, so cell phnes and computers are great when you can hop a reindeer to visit the next village over. They probably have more net addicts than Korea, since the Internet is an easy to stay in contact with people when it's -20 out.
They also have one of the highest rates of alchoholisim in Europe, and I wonder how many people get waivers for that each year.
But really, what self-respecting Army would pass on a soldier because he spent too much time practicing his BFG9000 skills...
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
The alternatives to that are:
- 13 months of civil service
- getting the conscription delayed long enough that you're too old for the army
- getting a certificate from the doctor that you have a disability that prevents you from going to the army
But delayed and told to come back later after couple of years. At least according to the local Finnish media.
(Totally crazy anyway. This is Finland for heavens sake, not some pansy-ass Sweden ;)
it's *slashdot* addiction - no way around it
Put them in a treatment program. Don't just let them go back and their computer.
-----
One is born into aristocracy, but mediocrity can only be achieved through hard work.
casue there were no replies.
This is ridiculous. Unfortunately, the story is true. What's ridiculous is that the service doesn't mean 6 months of no net -- it just means you can't get on the net _as much as you might want to_. First, the Finnish army gives you three out of four weekends off, which means you get to go home (=on the net if you just have to get your fix) for the weekend and report back on Sunday evening. Second, most if not all garrisons have computers with Internet-connections that the conscripts can freely use during the evenings. And if you still can't handle it? Growing up is exactly what you need.
Sure this does mean I get to sue the arse off my boss if I'm fired for inappropriate use of company resources when I'm caught surfing pr0n at work, right? I mean he's discriminating against my disability! Shame on him!
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
http://www.geocities.com/icaddict.geo/ (The Internet Chess Addict's Home).
-- Each tock of the Planck clock is a new world and here we are still life. --
I can identify with these soldiers. I once spent a month at a house with no internet access whatsoever. I had no idea what to do with myself in my spare time. I had my laptop with me and spent hours playing solitaire. I couldn't get my mind off the internet, and what must be happenning in my absence. I tried watching tv but I usually watch tv while browsing /., so it was no help. News papers weren't much better because I couldn't adjust the font size or get the perfect lighting of the computer monitor. I even went through pages I had available offline. I ended up just signing up for a month of dial-up connection, but it possibly made it worse because I had an old modem and was used to broadband. I had exactly the same sensations that I had while trying to give up cocaine (a habit from my young and stupid days), except there was no real physical sensations except those produced from nervousness.
_____
Thank you.
This story is not a joke, but Finnish Army is. (I'm a Finn, so I'm allowed to say that...) :)
:)
I mean that the military service is only 6 months, you can spend most of the weekends at home, you can bring your own mobile phone there (and use it to IRC/chat/surf/whatever), you can use the computers at the canteen and so -- still some kiddies suffer from Internet addiction.
What the **** we are going to do when the Russians come?
Man, if you could stay 2 months without net, you have no freakin' idea what you are talking about. No clue! Eight years ago I was supposed to spend two weeks without net with friends at a lake. Your typical summer holidays. I made it one week before hitchhiking over 600 miles back to "civilization". And that was 8 years ago. I know people who lost big bet that they could stay *one day* without cell phone. A "disconnect" is a serious problem for growing segment of population and net addiction is a real thing(tm).
If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
Atleast here in Norway (we have 12 months compulsary service), they have a tendency to decide who they want or doesn't want first, and if they want to get rid of you they'll accept next to any reasoning.
:)
My drafting was one of the few times in life i wish were fat, frail or had any disabilities
"" How about taking the safety labels off everything, and let the stupidity-problem solve itself? """
As a Finnish citizen I am very happy that our army sends these sissies home to grow up and is not trying to adjust the service easier for them. Our army is for self defence (not attacking poor people for some ;-) reason) and we really need good men (and women) to do the job.
Huh?
http://reference.allrefer.com/encyclopedia/F/Finn
However, with this bullshit, you wonder how they would fair now...
What's the point of doing service if it doesn't make you grow up? Actually, what does the Finnish army do?
I had a crappy connection with my laptop and gprs cellphone when i was doing my service (9 months), but I also could have been fine without them. I know no one who suffers/suffered from net addiction.
Who is John Galt?
Can I get disability and/or workmans comp for this malady?
You know that they make Nokia phones there, along with many other consumer goods. It is capitalism, but a form of capitalism wherein all citizens get more benefits from capitalism. Finland has a strong welfare state. Half of all Finns live in government owned housing.
eat shiat and bark at the moon
Armies must be constantly tested in the real world (that means wars) or they will not know what is effective and what is not. Sort of like compiling a program to work out the bugs. If the American army stopped going to war as regularly as it did, soon you would see far more silly initiatives and such, because there would be no consequence. This is a nuance which liberals often miss in their "anti-war" stance.
Since Finnish military is based on the principle of every man going through the obligatory service (6 to 12 months), it is obvious that there are all kinds of people with all the disabilities and other problems young men have in general.
However, in addition to these normal problems, since 80s (or even earlier) the Finnish military has begun to release people with rather silly excuses. Basically this has lead to a situation where you may be released because you have problems with motivation. Of course they always figure out some excuse like "mild depression", "sleep problems", "unstable personality" and whatever you can say about almost any person if you stretch the definitions enough. Having "Internet addiction" in the list doesn't surprise me at all because if you'd rather be at your computer than in the military, "Internet addiction" is the medicalised excuse they might use.
Those Burly Finns where are they now?
they only need to look back to the 90's (yah i know its hard to remember) when MOST people got their porn from magazines! God the 90s sucked...
You know, if Linus Torvalds can do it (He served in the Finnish army too, remember!) then any computer addict can. Suck it up and get a technical position, solider!
The Yasashii Syndicate ||
That's right -- ligitimate!
Check out the poll and submit your thoughts to their hi-tech CGI script, and you'll see for yourself:
Thank You For Filling Out This Form
Below is what you submitted to netaddic-data@netaddiction.com on Wednesday, August 4, 2004 at 02:12:49
Ligitimate_Mental_Disorder: No
Wait. I voted "no," so it's not ligitimate, but maybe it's still legitimate. I'm confused.
Aw, screw it -- I'm going to play some Doom3.
everything in moderation
Linus Torvalds, creator of Linux, performed a stint in the Finnish army. Why don't these geeks understand?
I'm probably at the karma cap. Mod up a funny troll instead, it lightens the mood
that I could postpone my job to look at pr0n 24/7.
lucky bastards.
...and it has been happening for few years.
It's really not just their addiction that excuses them from serving their country.
I think the main reason is their lack of interest and ofcourse they are in a such a bad shape that it's impossible to manage the armyduties.
I mean that if you sit in front of your computer for 12 hours a day and then you suddenly have to wear 30-40 kilos backpack and told to march 10 kilometres.
/* If everybody would be like me the world would be much better place to be - at least in my mind. */
More like "not Finnish"
Neil is that you? Yeah yeah, it's me... Neil...
Boatloads of people are zombified by television and movies, at least these soldiers were (hopefully) doing something interactive online, and possibly learning useful stuff. I'd rather be addicted to something I can learn from, than television full of infomercials and Jerry Springer.
Tell the addicts about this stuff and they will sign up in a flash for the ultra-realistic first-person shooter immersion experience!
Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
Just because it's related to computers (or perhaps "geeks") doesn't make it any less of a problem that needs to be dealt with.
AC comments get piped to
The finnish just need to get a new research program like we have in the US, and these 'E' status soldiers will promptly be made into test subjects for the new internet enabled super suits.
then everyone gets to be happy.
This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.
Also, they were used to sleep all days and be in the net all nights, which is kind of a problem when you should wake up 6am and go sleeping 10pm.
Slashdot took out a few soldiers. What service can't we deny?
"Derp de derp."
I'm only half Finnish, (the other half Dutch), and I already did my time in the Dutch army. *sighs* I lose out on both sides.
home
Soldiers excused from service because of internet addiction... IN JAPAN!
Oh wait... IN FINLAND!
Nah, definately less convincing.
The Finnish army practices lying in the snow, waiting for enemies to take out with one shot of the rifle.
:)
If you want winter experience, learn from Finnish, Norwegian or Swedish soldiers.
When I served my time in the Army, in Harstad, Norway (look it up)in jan-jul '97 there was a snowfall record. 2,5-3 meters of snow in valleys and -15 to -35 Celsius was the norm.
Advantages: You learn to handle extreme cold. It's easy to dig trenches and to camouflage the tent.
Disadvantages: It's bloody cold. When you've had your 4 hours of sleep inbetween watches, the uniform is not frozen anymore, but it's still damp/wet. When you get outside everything turns to ice.
Super-duper-advantage: During watches I got to see the Hale-Bopp comet at night, in perfect sky conditions. With night vision goggles too, that was incredible (and quite green/white). I missed an attack on the base though, the enemy got first strike there...
Well, I guess they are Finnished!
those are girly men. It seems like the army just wanted to get rid of em
did you forget to take your meds?
Finland has not seen a war in five decades. We all know what it means for a military that it has no actual war experience... All those who fought in the last war are already retired.
Oh come on, we have to serve 2.5 years of compulsory military service here and myself being a net addict survived it. Although it was really painful thinking about all my MUD-mates questing without me, leaving me to fall behind in experience points and levels :(
Well, as Reuter's piece tells, 82% of Finnish men complete their military service. That's quite a high percentage and enough for a credible defense.
The internet IS like an addiction. I personally would go nuts without it - my mind just needs to be stimulated with the overabundant torrent of information... It gives us the ability to access anything, anywhere without much ado, and crutch or not, it gets pretty damn addictive - and is something the mind doesn't want to part with...
Take something as simple as a word dictionary. Are you more likely to page through a 600+ book or quickly pop onto www.m-w.com? Exactly... We get used to that. And when we get denied Internet, its almost like sensory deprivation - losing a sense of touch with the world...
Or maybe I just need to get some sleep...
P.S: BTW, great excuse to avoid the army...
Once upon a time I had a psychology professor who started talking about how hard it was growing up in a predominantly Finnish neighborhood in, as I recall, Gary, Indiana ( Gary, Indiana, Gary Indiana. . .oh, sorry), because the Finns hated Americans.
Someone in the class asked him, "If they hate Americans, why did the come here?"
The answer?
"Because they hate Russians even more."
KFG
Try out.
All finnish men have to do their military service, which is 180, 270 or 360 days. Usually men go to this service after "basic" schools, at the age of 18 or 19. The military service starts either july or the next january. This leaves you time, when you have nothing to do ( if you can't get a job ).
During this time some ppl get addicted to net. And it's not just the net, it's the hours. Pretty much every net addict has bizarre sleeping pattern. Usually you go on chatting/surfing/playing 15-24hours, and then get some sleep, when you get really really tired. You have no obligations to be awake at some given time.
One finnish news site said, that the biggest problem was adjusting to regular sleeping pattern, not the actual net addiction.
The first weeks in the army are ofcourse the worst. You are in a totally new enviroment, you don't know anyone, and you live in a single room with 8-12 other men. Lots of people keep yelling at you and bossing you around, and that makes people very stressed. During those first weeks, pretty much everyone wants to quit.
When you add sleep disorder to this, you pretty much are done for it. There's no way you can maintain your mental health and motivation.
I had no problems during my service time, but I know what those sleep disorders from too much computer using can do to you. It's total hell trying to live as a productive member of society, when you simply can't sleep during the nights. Almost screwed up my school because of that, but luckily I'm over it now.
But it still bugs me that sleeping 7-8 hours a night and spending 9 hours a day of your time to work, it leaves you so very little spare time. Atleast to compared to the situation where you had nothing else than spare time.
I take it the Finnish heathens do not agree with Lord Bush's War on Brown People? Finland is now in the "with the terrorist" column. We, the glorious leaders of the Imperial States of America, were generous when we overlooked the anti-american slander in the "Star Wreck" trailer produced by one of your evil citizens and your involvment with the communist operationing system, Lunix, but our compassion has ended for your people. Prepare to face Operation Microsoft Bob.
(Mind you, internet addiction was not my reason for not going to the army - my "work computer" during my service was a glorious Schneider 386SX with W3.11 and no net connection. But during my year I got exceedingly good in Solitaire. ;-)
Finland.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
The country where I want to be,
Pony trekking or camping,
Or just watching TV.
Finland, Finland, Finland,
It's the country for me.
Verse: You're so near to Russia,
So far from Japan.
Quite a long way from Cairo,
Lots of miles from Vietnam.
Chorus: Finland, Finland, Finland.
The country where I want to be,
Eating breakfast or dinner,
Or snack lunch in the hall.
Finland, Finland, Finland,
Finland has it all.
Verse: You're so sadly neglected,
And often ignored,
A poor second to Belgium,
When going abroad.
Chorus: Finland, Finland, Finland.
The country where I quite want to be,
Your mountains so lofty,
Your treetops so tall.
Finland, Finland, Finland,
Finland has it all.
Repeat: Finland, Finland, Finland.
The country where I quite want to be,
Your mountains so lofty,
Your treetops so tall.
Finland, Finland, Finland,
Finland has it all.
Fade: Finland has it all...
Putting syrup in coffee is some form of blasphemy.
I just heard a mention of this on the news. Someone was quoted as saying "for people who stay up all night playing computer games and don't have any friends, military service can be quite a shock."
I'd say such people need that kind of shock more than most.
"Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
"I'm sorry I can't join the Army because I have to play Counterstrike."
I'm still trying to figure out what people mean by 'social skills' here.
... is to take your computer with you, that's what I did!
The official reason for having the computer was to use it in a music project (which we did) in the military band where I did my service. I know a few fellows who did the same thing, so I guess the point is to choose the place where you do your service carefully.
This is the military branch of the country that gave us the term "Finlandization," the process by which a portion of the country was ceded to the Soviets without them even asking for it
Faith: n. -- That human impulse that drives them to steal appliances when the power goes out
News at 11!
sigh ...we actually have an option about mandatory army....we have public "civilian" thingy(cant remember the name in english ,doh! Alltough I myself is just doing that thing right now(got caught about slashdot while writing this) ((so dont mind this rough lame spelling))
;) i can be hi-tech while still serving my country.
but my point is;
I surf the internet all day long! =)
no need for a low-tech army
Ras
They get to go home and grow up... Give me a break, more like become more addicted to the net...
So how does this conversation go?...
'Ummm, I got a net problem so I can't serve...'
'Ummm... ok, go home and grow up, come back in two years when you get over it....'
'Dahhhhh right Louie, search da puddy tat.... Dahhhhhh...'
flinging poop since 1969
The Finnish performance in WW2 was mainly due to four factors. One, Stalin didn't send enough troops to the Finnish front so the Finnish army wasn't completely overrun. Two, the winter '39-'40 was very cold, even by Finnish standards, so the Soviet mechanical advantage was lost. Three, the Finnish army was very good in the use of artillery. Four, defending your homeland gives you some extra boost compared to simply invading some other country. I don't think that the "quality of the soldiers" was that much different.
:)
However, the recent studies have shown that most young Finnish people would jump to the arms if Finland were invaded, so I don't think this net addiction thing has any effect on that
I saw this same news at our local TV news too (I live in Finland). 6 months is the minimum these days. I did spend my own service during 1998 and I was there for 11 months, but I admit that I had my laptop and GSM-modem with me almost all the time (I was remote working from army).
:)
You can just imagine how our commanding officer was surprised when he opened the door into our tent and I was there surfing Internet in middle of the forest during my night shift by the fire. Laptop and GSM were powered from generator that we filled with fuel oil between 5-6 hours. Usually people were sleeping and that's why they were checking the tents during nights.
Does anyone other than me think that having a web site to combat net addiction is a little messed up? "Help, I've got net addiction, I need to spend less time online!" - "Oh, hey, there's this great web site that can help you with that, you want the URL?"
Isn't that sort of like having your Alcoholics Anonymous meeting in a bar?
Kai MacTane: Web developer for hire in San Francisco
I often wonder if the United States is headed for a general conscription.
Many other democratic countries have it, and arguably it's good for people. I often wonder how my life would have been changed by a term in the military.
And hey, since we're now fighting an endless war, it seems more likely than ever.
Intolerance for ambiguity is the mark of the authoritarian personality.
"But Sir, I know how to slashdot the enemy!"
Table-ized A.I.
Most developed countries that practise conscription (manditory military service for all or at least all male citizens) anymore don't do it to maintain a serious force. The face of warfare has changed, as the latest Gulf conflict really demonstrated, such that lots of cannon fodder with machine guns, which is about all conscripts are good for, can't hold a candle to technology. Well you can't have a conscript flying a plane or driving a tank, that takes a volunteer.
Doesn't mean it's worthless though. It's an "in case shit", to borrow a Chris Rock phrase, policy. Suppose someone was trying to invade Finland and NATO just wasn't able to send immediate help. Maybe it's WWIII or something. Whatever, just suppose. If everyone has had basic training, when you draft them it takes much less time to get them up to speed. You don't have to train them from scratch, or send them totally untrained against the enemy, you just give them a quick refresher and they can fight.
This goes double for countries with Finland that have, shall we say, inhospitable terrain.
Thing is, even if Finaland made every able citizen in their country serve in the military full time, they'd still not have a real military force to speak of only 1 million people and at conscript level abilityies. Never mind you'd destroy the economy doing that. So they don't, they have a small perminant military for the little things that need it, and then give everyone a little training, just in case.
Switzerland takes theis to the extreme, actually requiring all their households to have a government issued machine gun, which their citizens learn how to use during manditory military service. That combine with the terrain would make Switzerand an iron clad bitch to invade. That, and the finincal cooperation, were the two reasons the Nazis didn't invade.
It's not a real common practice these days, but it still works.
When I began my service in the Royal Norwegian Airforce my commanding officer said: "Oh, you are IT educated - i have just the place for you". So I spent 12 months (well, 10 - but they call it 12) as a sysop on a encryptet telephone system via SHF. I sat in front of a SCO Unix box an monitored the lines, added users etc...
Maybe they spent a little too long staring at this:
policy analysis and political satire
The Finns also had their fair share of heros and one guy who can arguably claim the title of "Best Sniper Ever".
Granted, there are others, Zaitzev (and Koenig, who uh, lost) and Hathcock (perhaps a tie) that would be in the running, but I honestly don't think they would take first)
If you look up "hard-core motherfucker" in the dictionary, you should see a picture of Simo Häyhä
Simo, after he was shot in the face by an exploding bullet (a wound that took years to recover from) managed to find his rifle and killed the Soviet that had wounded him.
More info here.
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
Ok. Can I be a pussy because it was a stupid joke instead?
I bet you're one of the guys who mod bluescreen and slashdotting jokes up...
Not really. But I do mod funny jokes up.
Does Linux addiction also count as a reason for not performing millitary service in Finland?
Maybe they have a shred of intellectual integrity and don't want to add to the on-going myth used to ostracize civilian servicemen that the civilian service is the easy way out for the ones "who can't take it". Civilian service is for ideological reasons, period. If a person is mentally or physically unfit for the army, they should not serve at all.
Besides, civilian service means seven extra months not studying properly, and having to endure the social stigma.
This is hilarious. The general mindset here in Finland is that to be a man, a person must serve in the army. Nobody ever bothers to mention what's so special in the Finnish gene base that causes Finnish males to be boys before they serve, be they 18 or 28.
This kind of thinking belittles real problems fresh recruits and young men are having - which have absolutely nothing to do with immaturity. Our glorious defence force, where the first thing a young soldier learns is how to avoid responsibility and doing stuff, is the bastion of immaturity here.
Speaking of Finnish military personnel, how many of you US /.ers knew that Larry Thorne was Finnish?
What the hell to slashdot so long to copy and follow?
Doonesbury is coincidentally running a video game addiction series. See: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.ht ml?uc_full_date=20040802
http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.ht ml?uc_full_date=20040803
http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.ht ml?uc_full_date=20040804
Doonesbury is coincidentally running a video game addiction series. See:
. ht ml?uc_full_date=20040802o m/strip/dailydose/index.ht ml?uc_full_date=20040803o m/strip/dailydose/index.ht ml?uc_full_date=20040804
http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index
http://www.doonesbury.c
http://www.doonesbury.c
no text
With the world getting more crowded and the chinese and India wanting to be the new super-power kind on the block (Idia's president (a nuke missle scientist has said that he wants India to develop nanotech wepons for future wars (see www.nanodot.org), the whole world needs to dump the military concept and grow up...I say that all nerds out there in the world should rise up and show all these jock-type military sub-humans that nerds are the higher/smarter life form and net access is leaps and bounds above ignorant military service..if you want the uber-soldier of the future, get the nerds to grow you one in a vat using advanced nanotechnology, just tell the military types and supporters to bugger off (that includes you Bush (and company) and your plan to bring back the draft, if you get re-elected, you ignorant stupid president)
So instead, why not place them in front of a computer (preferably with a limited, monitored net connection ;-) and let them do work? Civilian servicemen are free employees, whereas training a solider costs quite a bit. In Germany, where a more significant portion of the population opts for civilian service (not German myself so I don't have the exact figures), servicemen are quite valued because of the work they do.
Depends. I've had some friend succesfully study in open university at the same time, and not all service jobs are nine-to-five. It really depends on the job. As for the social stigma, IMHO it doesn't exist anymore. While it is true that some decades ago military service was nearly mandatory for high paying/excecutive jobs, society has changed ever since. Sure, the rednecks still exist, they're a global phenomenon. If you spend time with them I doubt you'd even concider anything else than the army. But most people are quite liberal nowadays.Addiction is not being able to stop doing something even if you want to. This dosn't have to be bad. It could be in a good way. What if a doctor was addicted to saving lives? Would you deem him as having something wrong that needs to be fixed? Of course not! Addiction can be good also.
I guess any country that gave birth to Linus Torvalds deserves a little leeway in issues relating to technology. I'm guessing, though, that in a few years they'll start declaring folks with internet addiction to be valuable to national security, and suddenly people will go from being rejected internet junkies to officers in the electronic warfare department.
*****
Dear Mary,
I yearn for you tragically,
A.T. Tappman, Chaplain, U.S. Army.
Unfortunately, some people seem to think they know better. Those people are morons.
America is hated for its arrogance and its selfishness.
Thanks to organized farm lobbies in the western countries (and probably concerns of strategic resources), there have been set up trade barriers that limit importing food from developing countries, while our subsidized produce is being exported to those countries. Not only do we refuse to buy their goods, but we export subsidized produce to them that thanks to those subsidies is cheaper than their domestic wares. Why do they put up with it? Since the alternative is even worse - not being able to export anything to the Western countries.
Basically, we cannot be expected to be loved when we actively make life hard for poor people in the above described fashion..
Oh - and exporting western culture into societies where decency is still a virtue is not a good idea either, that tends to rub people in power the wrong way..
Basically, if America and the West want to be loved, we need to see things their way too and come up with compromises where both sides make sacrifices..
Stop the brainwash
I'm not sure anybody has any ill will towards Finland today (except maybe Bill Gates, grin!). But the Finns have a history of their big neighbours visiting quite regularly.... (Russia, Sweden...)
Actually, the quality of soldiers was different, or rather the quality of the leadership. The Finns still had a lot of officers who had training and field experience from the old Imperial Russian army, but on the Russian side that talent had all been lost in the revolution, and even after that Stalin's purges had taken a heavy toll on the Red Army. Stalinism massively hurt almost everything important to any Soviet efforts, from science to the military, when the political leadership interfered with everything and replaced competent people with idiots that made bigger promises.
And...
Four, defending your homeland gives you some extra boost compared to simply invading some other country.
The Soviets had also expected there to be a lot of Finnish communists who would defect and greet the Red Army as some great liberator, but there weren't because the Soviets had already killed them. There had been a lot of communists in Finland, but most of them had moved to the Soviet Union (this was not a big deal for a Finnish communist: there were a lot of ethnic Finns living in the Soviet Union, so it was just the border between a capitalist bourgeois democracy and the great socialist wonderland) and the paranoid Soviets had, of course, executed almost all of them as spies or unreliables. (The rumors that not all was well in the wonderland then, naturally, contributed a lot to the Finnish will to fight; for the Finns, it was not just Finland that was at stake, but the fate of Finns as a people.)
Totalitarianism has a real habit of working against itself...
The Finnish civilian service shouldn't be 13 months of a cool job learning comp skills or just hanging around in a library, taking somebody else's real job away.
It should be 6 months cleaning public toilets, underground stations, and the like.
I did the army, and I actually understand and respect poeple who don't do that for ideological reasons. Socially, the latter is the harder way to go...
But I hate the way the service is implemented -- currently, my own job opportunies are suffering from the fatct that these no-pay guys who couldn't care less about the job are filling up the places nevertheless. (Yeah, hence this rant.)
finnish army, i mean. was there for nine months. complete waste of my time.
"Hm..where can I apply for disability..."
umm, in Finland?
COWBOY: Tough break for Hand Job. He was all set to get shipped out on a medical.
JOKER: What was the matter with him?
COWBOY: He was jerkin' off ten times a day.
EIGHTBALL: It's no shit. At least ten times a day.
COWBOY: Last week he was sent down to Da Nang to see the Navy head shrinker, and the crazy fucker starts jerking off in the waiting room. Instant Section Eight. He was just waiting for his papers to clear division.
So, I guess the "net addiction" excuse isn't bad, comparatively, considering it cost me about 400 bucks in shrink's fees to get out of the Swiss army (like about 30% of their recruits every year, incidentally.)
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
could parent be modded "Funny".
Kind of hard to believe huh?
Hollow words will burn and hollow men will burn.
Technically, a person can become addicted to anything.
There are two kinds of addiction. One is psychological, and the other is physiological. In other words, you can have a direct mental (emotional, whatever) dependence on something, or your body can be dependant on something. Sometimes a psychological addiction can cause physical withdrawl symptoms, too, and just because you're psychologically addicted doesn't mean there isn't a physical side effect/benefit.
People allow addictions to continue in their lives because they're an escape from the mundane details and unpleasant things about life that they don't like. Caffine, the Internet, sex, routine, alcohol, spending money, being dumb, smoking, singleness - people get addicted to all these things, because they help the person avoid having to think about the real issues of life.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Yep. 542 confirmed kills in 105 days...
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
My mother was one of those few 27-year-old Finns who hadn't done a suicide yet. Her alcohol problems were severe though and she died a day after I was born. My father already had blown his tiny brains out when he heard that my mother was pregnant. So had my grandparents blown their brains out right before they both killed a few million Russians in Winter War with their bare hands only. The nurse gave me snow to eat. Santa Claus gave me rocks.
My childhood was quite usual. I had to ski to the nearest school every day for 42 kilometers and 195 meters, even in the summer. One day my big brother was eaten by a pack of wolves and my uncle. Or so they say, because I had too much moonshine to remember. My brother was a Linux kernel tree maintainer.
At school the teacher was too drunk to taught us anything else but Swedish language, how to make mobile phones, love Lenin and praise the superior education and political system we have here. I designed a few phones, invented WAP and got a job at Nokia sweat shop. I built an igloo to give me shelter from the summer heat waves (-35 C), German tourists and elves.
I once watched Baywatch and got very horny. I met a reindeer in IRC, dated and finally had a shotgun wedding. The sex life was not good and a decade later the reindeer left me because of a Swedish tennis player called Sven-Göran Svensson. The reindeer got the igloo and the bastard children. In divorce I got nothing but a rope which is too short so that I could hang myself. Please help me!
Being a technical person and having served my 12 months in the Finnish army, I can say that the communications equipment we got to use were pretty interesting.
I mean, after wireless connectivity using 10-pound radios, sending encrypted text messages using 4 pound special devices and other technology that is rugged enough to survive even if the soldier doesn't, you really start to appreciate your 0.2 pound Nokia cellphone.
And usually these top-notch behemots ship in these handy 3x3x3 foot boxes you get to carry around in the forest. And don't get me started on the weather! Now wonder these younger nerds start to miss internet.
http://codeandlife.com
If Finland was in a part of the world that was a bit more strategic, or was surrounded by ambitious neighbors, it wouldn't last a year.
Fortunately, they've got no resource, they're surrounded by neighbors who could care less, and so they're safe.
For now.
First of all Mika Hakkinen quit because he couldn't put up the pressure (typical of the country apparently).
And all the best talent in the US is going into NASCAR, which I hate, but that's where the money's at.
And the way things are going, NASCAR is more likely to conquor the world than F1 is likely to conquor the US.
So get real here.
The Royal Marines are cool chaps. The base I was stationed at was housing British, Danish, German and American troops for winter training before the big Operation Whatever war game.
:)
:)
A week after first arriving (flying up half the country), I ended up in the base's hospital due to some crazy violent influenza (along with half the guys that came on the same plane as me) - 39,8C fever, runs and the works. During my two-week stay I made friends with a couple of Royal Marines. Nice folks, but as I said, bonkers. And they don't know how to ski very well
ObWeAreBestBragYouSuck: The local county "guerilla" home defense military "Heimevernet" had such a good combat record that they invited SAS troops to have a go at attacking the base. SAS lost
It seems most slashdotters are not equipped with a sense of irony, or even a sense of humor that doesn't revolve around BSODs and Beowulf clusters.
" It's purpose is not to psychologically damage its recruits."
Making someone grow up is not damaging them. This type of coddling of your youngsters is perhaps a symptom of why you have such a high suicide rate in Finland. You pamper people so much that it never toughens them to the realities of life.
God help you if your army ever had to defend your country. The "men" would probably burst into tears.
The question is not about who is right but who is left.
I know I should have applied to more computer technological department in the FDF, but anyway I conscripted to the Guard Jaeger Regiment (in Finnish). It was in 1999 and even then they had internet connection conscripted could use.
Later on this year I was lecturing for some conscripted from Defence Forces Education Development Centre, they all had laptops given by the FDF and while I was teaching them I saw at least some of them running irssi thru ssh, the very same method I use to get on IRC when I'm at work. Too bad I wasn't able to see their channels so I couldn't join them later.
My father had been visiting the Education Development Centre when he worked for the same company that I do and he told me that it seems to be all candy and chocolate compared to normal service in fighting units. Of course if you ask from someone who has already served his 6/8/9/12 months then the service today is no match to the time when the temperature was 20 degrees below absolute zero and Adolf Hitler was a sensitive man compared to the sergeant that one time...
?SYNTAX ERROR
When interviewed one captain explains:
"Addicted has never been under anybody's command,
never been woken up at 6 am, has not had any 'limits' whatsoever in his life. When these defects are exposed addicted creates his own versions of symptoms. Doctors then diagnoses these as panic attacks, anxiety disorder or whatever. Addicted:
- are normally exposed during the first 4 weeks of training.
- sleep only during days
- have friends only at internet.
- have no hobbies
- do no exercise at spare time
When addicted is housed with 10 farting guys into a same room it is evitable that shock occurs"
I agree with the captain, nerds.
If a foreign Army did this they'd be *cough* Finnished [ducks for cover]
[% slash_sig_val.text %]
There are more F1 races in the US than in Finland.
Because it's slavery and sexual discrimination?
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
First of all, the story is probably just rubbish.
...unless you share the problem. Calling people "sissies who need to be sent home to grow up" is a typical symptom of such attitude problems.
These appear to be just careless personal opinions given by one redneck army commander. In the interview (as quoted for example in Iltalehti), he uses low-language words such as "dude" (jätkä) and "farting". He also belittles the actual medical statements made by doctors, which are often "panic disorder", "anxiety", etc.
These clues tell us what this article is probably about: the commander is just an example of people with severe attitude problems in the army. He simply over-generalizes a huge number of problems into a single cause, which he himself probably understands nothing about. Really, why do they let that sort of people even give such public statements?
Just read the interview and really think about what the commander says.
It's of course nice that some people have the mentality needed for the army, which requires "taking orders" and "setting limits" (as the commander says). Such mentality might not be ideal or even desired for much (although perhaps some) of the life outside the army.
But yes, I agree that those people who best fit in the military should go there, and do their job well. And not expect everybody else to be like them.
I wish I has moderating points now.
Moderating 101
Hm..where can I apply for disability...
Why, online of course.
-Dizzle
"I most likely AM so interested in myself."
Some of these people are likely to be using it just as an excuse, and if they get called back again in a few years they'll use another one until they have a family and then have a valid excuse... I know it's not Finland but I knew a guy from Sweden who got called up for their "compulsory" national service. He said that if you don't want to do it, all you had to do in the interview was say things like "I don't like people" and that they'd let you off, because you wouldn't be suitable in their eyes. So I get the impression it's just a formality thing and as long as not too many people are dodging out they're OK with it. Most people generally DO want to do it, it's not just Army work, it can be as a firefighter and things like that too.
Well one would think it was Bush backing the draft, but it is a bit of Subterfuge . .
S N0 0089:@@@L&summ2=m&i n/bdquery/z?d108:HR0 0163:
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.
...
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...
.
.
.
, .
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. .
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What is going on is the Democrats put forth the two bills
to re-instate the draft . Senate Bill s.89 , House Bill H.R. 163
http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:
http://www.congress.gov/cgi-b
As another subtle bit of subterfuge they like to put Rep in front
of the authors names, making the less informed think these ppl
to be evil republicans, but it just means representative
If you check their names with their party affiliation you find they are Democrats . So military stupidity is not limited to Republicans
The draft is a bad idea . Ppl that do not want to fight make poor soldiers and it usually causes massive unrest . See "Kent State"
You want quality soldiers, pay them decent pay, and do not screw
them on their benefits like the government does now
See "Gulf War Syndrome" and the lies surrounding the hearings
In a perfect world we would not need a military, but if you
look around you will see we are SOOOO far from perfect that,
that day is a ways off . Peace is great, but who is buying ???
India's militarist overtures are geared towards Pakistan in
my humble opinion . They still follow the principle of
mutually assured destruction from the US/USSR cold war
They need to follow the steps of Reagan and Gorbachev and decide to put the insanity away
Even then it is not really over, the US/Russia still have nukes, just ALOT less of them
As long as there is Fear, Power, Greed, Hate, Envy, and Nationalism
there is going to be this militaristic desire for "defense"
or as Fundementalist Muslims feel a new Global religious crusade
to convert or kill the Infidels in a 25,000 mile, 360 degree
circumference
History shows the horror of war, but nobody has heeded the lesson
over thousands of years, closest was Tibet, and you see what it got them . The Dalai Lami is homeless more or less
Only Ghandi has defeated violence with peace because he understood
that if you make the situation financial worthless the british will just go away
North Korea did not sign for peace, they just have an Armistice
Technically, the war never ended . 51 years it has gone on
The good news is China is trying to convince North korea to
embrace the captilism and under cut the US thru manufacturing
like China is and to win the war financially
The bad news is the US will eventually manufacture nothing here
and after a generation of not doing it, even if we had to we
would have few ppl that knew how
China figured out they could beat us at our own game just like
the japanese did with their cars for "awhile" til tarrifs slowed
it abit and US automakers stopped making crap
That is why China wanted into the World Trade Org so bad , and
has been putting on a guise of being a good neighbor . Hide and watch
China plans to take Taiwan, and North Korea wants the south section
for itself, its not a matter of if, but when
When the middle east goes full tilt and we are stretched far too
thin, look for some or all of this to play out
Right now the war in Iraq is but a shadow of the killings fields
of Vietnam, but if we do not get out soon, it will be like that
or worse, and "some" ppl in Iran hope that happens
Peace !!!
Ex-MislTech
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
Bah. At least they love hot young Russian women from which they buy sex for 10-20 euros in the little rural towns lying near to Finno-Russian border.
From the USSR's point of view Finland is the gateway/blockade to the entire Nordic penninsula, which is the most obvious staging area for attacks on Britain and North-Western Europe available.
Additionally, western Norway is the nearest thing the USSR has to a defensible set of seaports usable in the depths of winter.
If WWIII isn't just an unlimited ICBM exchange (unliklely I know), then Finland is gonna get it in the neck in the first few minutes, purely for blocking the way into Norway and Sweden (or possibly for blocking the way into St Petersburg, it really depends who's on the offensive).
kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
Quite. Organized farm lobbies in "western countries". Not just the USA. If this was the reason the USA is hated, then Europe would be hated equally.
Switzerland takes theis to the extreme, actually requiring all their households to have a government issued machine gun.
No, not all households. Only the active military have their gun (not machine-gun) at home. The peculiarity is that they are "active" until the age of 40 or something, going back to training for about 1 to 3 weeks every year, plus a few Saturdays going to shooting training.
That, and the finincal cooperation, were the two reasons the Nazis didn't invade.
I don't believe the miltary had anything to do with Switzerland not being invaded by Germany.
To put it simply: you don't attack your own bank.
BTW, the 2 countries which used to be poor and became rich after the World Wars are Switzerland and the US.
Totalitarianism has a real habit of working against itself...
How does one account for the popularity and prominence of the Communists in Finland after World War?
Althought recently in decline, in the last parliamentary elections, the Left Alliance, the successor to the Communist Party, got close to 10% of the vote. It had three members of the cabinets of the recent governments of Paavo Lipponen (1995-2003).
There have been ample alternatives on the left to a party so closely associated with a foreign invader. I suppose it's possible to get 10% of the voters to support any marginal party but the fact the Communists got positions in the government seems truly strange.
It seems as likely as Quisling getting a cabinet position in Norway.
"Internet addiction" is still not a recognized diagnosis in any part of the world, and certainly not in the U.S. To create a new diagnosis in the mental health field takes usually decades worth of solid research. "Internet addiction" has less than a decade's worth at this point, and only one or two solid studies that point to *something* (but what, exactly, is still not known because of the studies' methodological flaws).
It's too bad people take this hokum as real. Might as well start having "book addiction" and "TV addiction" and "communication addiction," because any normal activity, done too often, can then be termed an "addiction." For more reading on what's really going on with this diagnosis/disorder, check out my article at:
http://psychcentral.com/netaddiction/
Lol, that self test on the page that had linked to in the post- well...you can sign another addict up :O ;)
_______________
Help Desk Software Consultant
You're going to vaporize in a puff of superheated radioactive carbon, calcides, iron and trace minerals, just like everybody else outside cheyenne mountain.
kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
The Finnish communists have never had really good relations with the Soviet communists. This was true both before and after the war. I'm no expert in the Finnish political history but AFAIK the ideology of the Finnish communists was much more socialist inclined than the Soviet one.
More to the point, the current Finnish Left Wing party is actually entirely socialist, not communist at all. Back in the '80s they could still have been called communists but this hasn't been true for more than a decade.
If you choose to join the army, then you have to put up with the consequences of that decision. If you are not prepared to put up with it, then you probably should never have joined the army in the first place -- or you should have dropped out during the first couple of weeks, while you still can do so with little or no shame. Is Finland at war with anyone? I really hope not, for Finland's sake, if this is the sort of thing that is happening.
The reality of the situation is that if you join the army, you can expect to get bullied by your "superior" officers {speech marks to indicate that they are just human beings and therefore, not superior to any other human being}, punished for trivial infractions {whether or not your fault} including demonstrating the ability to think for yourself, and -- if your country goes to war -- shot at by the Americans. On the upside, you will have no shortage of opportunities for heavy drinking {no stronger/more enjoyable substances, though} and casual sex; and, in a minority of cases, you might even get to do some of the bullying yourself.
Hey, maybe we should blame this on films and video games that artificially glamorise the military lifestyle! In ther meantime, if you have more than half a brain, just stay out of the army, mmmkay?
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
"But really, what self-respecting Army would pass on a soldier because he spent too much time practicing his BFG9000 skills"
.50 BMG rifle round. So whenever you're not camping, run around between the armour and quad damage spawn points. Remember: not only you'll be protected yourself, you're also denying the enemy the oportunity to pick those armour points for himself.
Ah, forget the BFG. There's more military stuff in these games.
1. Rocket and grenade jumps. If you don't shoot rockets at your own feet, you're a wuss and will get 0wn3d.
2. Bunny hopping. Forget that lame myth about taking cover and laying suppression fire. And only crouch or go prone when you aim. Real Men (TM) bunny-hop their way across the battlefield.
3. For that matter, suppression fire never works. Only headshots work. If you don't have a good headshot lined up, better not shoot at all.
4. Only sniper rifles win battles. Any automatic weapon has such a horrible spread, that it's useless beyond 50 ft. Even in 3 round bursts. (E.g., forget about using a LSW at the effective range the US army claims. It can't hit the broad side of a barn at a tenth of that range in any "realistic" game.)
5. Which is just as well, since moving around is just begging to get hit. The way to win a battle is to camp in a dark place with a sniper rifle. Bunny-hop your way to a good camping place ASAP, and stay put there until the battle ends.
6. No battle ever was won by artillery or tanks. And forget about air support: it's just a bunch of n00bs who camp the airstrip, but none of them can actually fly. They'll just crash back into the ground in 5 seconds flat anyway.
7. Reload often. In fact, reload after each shot, if you have a chance.
8. Vehicles are a mixed bag. They are either indestructible, in which case the only way to stop them is to headshot the people using them. Or they can be destroyed with a pistol or SMG too. It just takes longer. Be sure to ask in advance what kind of vehicles you'll be facing.
9. Memorize the layout of the map. Especially where the medkits, weapon and armour spawn points are. When under fire, run (or better yet: bunny-hop) to the nearest medkit spawn point. Only n00bs get killed because they don't know where the nearest medkit spawn point is.
10. For that matter, always stay armoured and buffed. A good kevlar vest can stop even a
11. Enemies always make loud noises when they run. Army boots must have cast iron soles, or something. With a good pair of headphones or a good 7.1 setup you can know in advance where everyone is on the map. Even in the middle of a machinegun fight.
12. Rifles and such tend to clip through walls and doors. Always be on the lookout for gun barrels and such sticking out of concrete walls. It means someone's on the other side. That may be your only forewarning.
13. If all else fails, don't sweat death too much. You'll just respawn and go at it again. Worst that can happen is that you have to wait a whole 2 minutes until the current round ends.
14. Just because you're dead, it doesn't mean you can't still help your team. If the game allows you to move around in "ghost mode", grab Team Speak or the phone and tell your team members where the enemies are.
15. Anyone who's too good at it, is probably cheating. In fact, I bet the USA used aimbots and wall-hacks in Iraq. If you scream and curse loud enough about it, you can get them banned by the admin. Beats actually trying to shoot them.
16. If your team is losing, switch teams. It's not your fault that they're a bunch of unskilled n00bs, and you don't want their incompetence to look bad on your score. Always join the winning team.
Etc.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
If the enemy doesn't come from east, it means they're flanking.
GEt out military with lameist excuses possible.
Just use the internet archive when you come back and you will miss nothing.
Nope... better luck next time...
Talentloser Trottel
We're completely volunteer. In order to end up in the military here, you have to take yourself down to a recruiter's office, take a few tests, fill out a bunch of paperwork, and swear the enlistment oath in front of an officer.
Sure, we have selective service, but that hasn't been activiated since almost the vietnam war, and it isn't likely too.
Of course, my reaction was, "What, a military without internet access?"
Why can't they get it during off duty hours?
I don't read AC A human right
Err... what prominence? The countries where the communists were truly prominent after WWII ended up in the East bloc; Finland didn't.
Some communists were able to achieve some power immediately after the War with the help of some Soviet meddling, for example through the Allied Control Comission (which in Finland was almost completely made up of Soviet representatives - the other Allies had no demands for Finland), but they never managed to bring Finland to a revolution (and, unlike the communists in some other countries, they had less of an interest in a violent revolution that would've taken Finland into the Soviet Union). Some years after the war it was clear that the communists were no real political power.
There was, still, a rebound in radical leftism after the Continuation War. It's not so hard to explain at all. For example, most of the Finnish cultural elite had been extremely unhappy about fighting together with the Nazis and when the whole truth about them got out (during war time the anti-Nazi press had been silenced, so people didn't know that much about the Germans), they were absolutely shocked. It's not very surprising that many people felt the need to distance themselves from the Nazis as much as possible, even if it meant getting "closer" to the ideology of Finland's worst enemy.
Althought recently in decline, in the last parliamentary elections, the Left Alliance, the successor to the Communist Party, got close to 10% of the vote.
The Left Alliance isn't really "the successor to the Communist Party", but a successor to several leftist parties, the Communists being the most radical ones. The most radical parts of the Communist Party refused to join the Left Alliance and set up the Communist Party again (so there isn't a "successor" to it as such, it's just that almost all of the "ex"-communists joined the LA).
It would be silly to call the Left Alliance people "communists" (but IMHO still not at all silly to call them dumbasses :-)). The actual Communist Party is nothing but a joke today - Donald Duck and the female private organ probably get more votes than the communists.
Finns take the defense of their tiny country quite seriously! For those of you who may not remember, a quick refresher on one of history's most forgotten wars- The Winter War, 1939-1940.
;)
Soviet Russia sent 23 divisions (460,000 troops) and 2,000 tanks into Finland in an act of naked agression, seeking little more than land expansion. They were told not to stop until they reached Sweden. They were so sure of victory that one of their divisions had a military band complete with instruments for their victory performance in Helsinki, after which they would install a puppet government.
Finland, with a whopping population of 3.6 million, managed to field 160,000 troops.
The final result:
-The Soviets suffered 400,000 casualties
-Stalin suffered a humiliating defeat, and was forced to sign the "Peace Agreement" March 13 1940.
Finland lost 10% of it's land, but survived as a free independent country. The Soviet army was recalled in defeat, with Stalin nervous about developments elsewhere in Europe as Hitler's war machine spun up.
To this day, even with Perestroika, Glasnost, and the "collapse" of the Soviet Union, the citizens of the tightly culturally interconnected scandanavian countries (Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Iceland) maintain a deep mistrust of Russia and it's motives for -anything-.
Do NOT mock the Finish army!
THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK.
Sure, ignore completely the fact that the Finnish soldiers were specifically *trained* for winter warfare! What is this "Stalin didn't send enough troops to the Finnish front" bullshit? There were almost ten russians to a finn in this conflict (suurin piirtein), so how the heck can you say that Stalin didn't send enough?
I am not a finn by birth, but dang, I get really riled up when someone tries to minimize the achievement of the finnish soldiers in WWII.
Expecially because of the fabricated motivations for the russian invasion - but this is another, long story.
Sigged!
It looks to me like Finland is trying to finesse the matter by having a draft on paper (because it "egalitarian", or something) but making it easy to avoid (so that you don't have a bunch of shlubs who don't want to be there screwing up the professionalism of the army). I'm reminded of the US "don't ask don't tell" policy.
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
Also the fact that Finnish troops had submachine guns vs Russian rifles might have been a factor.
Based on this photograph .
I would have thought -all- members of the finnish army were internet addicts.
It is said that they have to come back after 3 years. They're supposed to be more mature then.. :-)
Glad I'm not going into the army.
"There's more money in NASCAR?"
For drivers, yes. Sure Honda/Ferrari/BMW et al spend billions on F1. But the drivers themselves, aside from Schumacher, don't make that much.
Further, there's only slots for about 16 drivers.
Contrast that with NASCAR, where there's literally hundreds of drivers. And again, if you take away schumacher, there's not that much endorsement money for these guys.
Plus, 1 race per country (if they're "lucky")? I don't think so.
I like F1, but the appeal of NASCAR is obvious.
"A bunch of guys armed with Swiss Army Knives?!?!?!?!?!"
That's nto allowed. It might get somebody hurt. The army can't go around getting people hurt.
...prior to 1995.
~==>RocketSHE
towards the matrix, the real matrix as in the shadowrun matrix, not some ripped off movie matrix.
Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I want to be,
Pony trekking or camping,
Or just watching TV.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
It's the country for me.
You're so near to Russia,
So far from Japan,
Quite a long way from Cairo,
Lots of miles from Vietnam.
Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I want to be,
Eating breakfast or dinner,
Or snack lunch in the hall.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
Finland has it all.
You're so sadly neglected
And often ignored,
A poor second to Belgium,
When going abroad.
Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I quite want to be,
Your mountains so lofty,
Your treetops so tall.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
Finland has it all.
Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I quite want to be,
Your mountains so lofty,
Your treetops so tall.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
Finland has it all.
Finland has it all.
I guess those soilders' military careers are "finnished". Ahem! ;)
Err... what prominence?
According to this site, the Communists were part of the ruling coalition starting in the 1950s and members of the party were in the cabinet from 1966 to 1982, including the Minister of the Interior at one point.
It's not very surprising that many people felt the need to distance themselves from the Nazis as much as possible, even if it meant getting "closer" to the ideology of Finland's worst enemy.
If ideology was the issue, the ideology of the Stalinists was hardly an alternative. In addition, during the Cold War, Finland engaged in some fancy diplomacy to fend off Soviet subversion and the threat of a Soviet invasion. It seem unlikely that those threats from allies of the local Communists would have made people more sympathetic.
It would be silly to call the Left Alliance people "communists"
According to this site:
In other European democracies, the Social Democrats almost always avoided alliances with the Communists. One would have thought that pattern would have applied even more so in Finland given the Communists' connection to Finland's worst enemy. Instead, one sees the Social Democrats in Finland forming coalitions fairly frequently without being punished by voters in subsequent elections.
Maybe if one lives in Finland it makes some kind of sense, like the alliance between liberal Republicans in the U.S.A. with white supremists in the South. However, from the outside it is highly incongruous.
Of course, my reaction was, "What, a military without internet access?" Why can't they get it during off duty hours?
We do, but there aren't enough computers for all of us. With 4 public computers for about 1000 conscripts, we don't get much time each. My 20 minutes are almost up. I guess I'll have to request permission to bring my own laptop and GPRS modem instead. B-)
'Net Addiction' is a euphemism for 'Porn Addiction'
Ok, got it now, right, man I'm a little slow today...
...to reduce his sentence, as I recall. Back before any judges could tell it's a crock.
he's not Finnished yet.
bp
Part of that fancy diplomacy, really. The Soviets wouldn't have liked it if the communist party would have been closed down. And the Finnish communist party was truly dangerous only immediately after war when they had lot of Soviet support. There was no communist revolution then, and I don't think that even most communists had any love for Soviet Union. We'll never know whether their leader was a great Finnish patriot or merely incompetent. And since there was no real threat of communist revolution, it was better to have them inside the tent pissing out than having them outside pissing in. Good PR towards USSR, you see.
It's kind of right now; we have no intention of joining NATO. Not even thinking about it. Honest. Well, the air forces new planes are F/A-18s and pretty much every other weapon system is being made compatible with NATO, but that doesn't mean anything! We are nationally really good at doing one thing and giving the impression of another.
And I think the Left Alliance has a lot of ex-commies who have given up the commie part and are merely fringe leftists now. I don't associate them with communism myself, but then I don't pay too much attention.
But mostly, above all, there would be determined finnish army with intention to fight off any invader.
;-)
And, if I recall my history correctly, it took about a million Russian troops to finally capture Finland in the second world war. This was a massive embarassment to Russia, as Finland was/is a small country in terms of population. Their miliary wasn't too impressive based on conventional military standards either.
I recall I read somewhere that this left an impression on the Nazis, and may have contributed to Hitler's 'Rotten House' theory ("Russia is a rotten house, just kick the door and the whole thing will come crashing down.") that ultimately lead Germany into an unwinnable conflict with Russia.
Never mess with a Finn
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
And let's not forget Stalin had purged some 80% of the Soviet officer corps for supposed disloyalty. An army with no leadership just can't deal with a complex tactical situation like that. Luckily (for the USSR) many of them were still alive in Siberian gulags and were restored to their positions when Germany attacked.
US contributes 'quite a lot of aid.' But you are right. There is nothing openly arrogant about anything done in Europe. After all, they are willing to criticise Israel on everything it does but are 'sensitive' enough to turn a blind eye to every other injustice that goes on in the world. The Spanish ellections where influenced by terrorist attacks. France is becoming a scary place to be if you are visibly religious (with both anti religous policy and hate crimes at an all time high). All in all, Europe is looking to become a 'United States of Europe' and I am not convinced that they will flex their power as a superpower any more responsibly then the US did.
It's almost as if this world we live in has countries that do thigns that are both good and bad. America is a big place. it does a lot of questionable things. it does a lot of bad things. and it does a lot of good things. same can be said of europe. I'm sick of everyone trying to pretend the world is a dicotomy and proclaiming everything evil or good. This isn't starwars. There is no 'good side'
And europe, like the US, has both some of the best music. And, like the US, Europe has some of the trashiest, cookie cutter music one can imagine.
The Neo-Bohemian Techno-Socialist
The service time is at it's shortest 6 months for crew. For some crew it will be 9(medics) months or 12(drivers) months. For every from corporal() up it will be 12 months.
:D - Even though I had to spend 12 months() I managed to spend the last 6 mostly in airconditioned office(5 comps, unlimited web, tv-card, fridge, sauna, gym, billiards table) developing web education and keeping servers running with 2 person crew. So the time off from net was not that long. :D
Every year about 10 % get sent home to grow up for few years before coming back. Point being that they didn't get off - just delayed.
Of course true player's got things under control
Well, obviously Stalin did not send enough troops to overrun Finnish defenses before the winter. AFAIK the Soviet army commanders asked for more troops but didn't get the reinforcements he wanted. And IMO had the winter been less severe the winter trained Finnish troops wouldn't have stood a chance against the mechanized Soviet army. Yes, the Finnish troops fought bravely (including both of my grandfathers and presumably both yours) but we were lucky not to lose. Part of that luck was of course the brilliance of the Finnish army in using tactics suitable for the harsh winter.
But this is just me, I'm just another Finn and definitely no WWII expert.
In Soviet Russia, Internet addict YOU!
I don't much about the Finnish society, but I guess they have the same kind of illnesses for geeks/nerds, as the rest of the Nordic countries (or world?):
;)
- Internet Addiction, which were compared to Gambling Addiction in Denmark around year 2000 by many scientists. Mostly that people _need_ to check their email before they pursuit their "life". Also gamers have been in target (ofcourse, blame the lamers).
- "Mousearm", which is a longterm illness, where your lower arm feels swollen up after heavy use. I have the believe though that is because of "wrong use" (most elderly women complains).
- Lack of D-vitamin, because it is mainly given from the sun (which no geek ever sees
Most of these illnesses just sound like another way for the medical/ergonomics-companies to make even more money.
(yes this can be compared with sex)
and other websites like stumbleupon etc. for inflicting this horrible illness on me? And not displaying any warning labels? Think about all the productive time I've lost; and how much more money I would make nowadays if I hadn't been fired from two jobs for spending all day browsing...
The word on the street is that /. was actually designed by a team of Addictive Psychology PhD's ./ site then utilizes serotonins eyepupil dialating effect to further brain-control the subject by flashing a green color in a frequency that distort the brain's neural pattern, this technique has proven to be 70% effective in rendering captured subject's (read: ./ reader) cerebral cortexes a complete mush within a an average of 200 hours of pressing 'reload' for more stories.
to mesmerize your subconscious in to a slumbering state and thus making your neural tranceptors release some serotonin. The
Conscription is fine for countries like Finland.
For assholes countries like Britain a professional army is better. How the fuck is some Brit or American in Iraq actually suppossed to pretend Iraq's antiquated army with no form of force projection is an actual threat to the United States or Great Britain.
For Finns, knowing they can defend their own country is enough. Conscription works fine for the Israeli Defence Force and other armies, get off your tower.
Switzerland did not get invaded because of their tunnels. The threathened that if the germans invaded, they would bomb the tunnels, thereby closing the valuable transport lines that pass through Switzerland.
So they can't go wireless?
Crisis is the rule, not the exception.
Are you an Israeli?
Seriously, everything you found interesting is covered in basic Boy Scout material minus being a conscript. (Do you get paid?)
First thing to come to mind
In Norway the military first-time service is 9-12 months (6 for the Home Guard "minutemen"), and civilian service (working for a kindergarten, a peace organisation, etc.) is 18 months.
The longer civilian service is not punishment. The extra 6-12 months are served instead of the regular military repetition exercises that you get called in for. And last, but not least, after civil service you won't be forced to defend your country if there's ever a war.
If you don't want to learn to kill people you can do civil service, do un-armed service in the military, or you can take your chances on
Finland recently shortened the military first-time service. If the total service was reduced by the same percent, then the civilian service should be shortened accordingly. Except of course, that part of the shortening of Finnish military service is caused by less leave for the soldiers and "more intensive training".
Irene KHAAAAAAN!
...(shivering) got to get on the internet......cannot hold it anymore....(pleading) have to read slashdot.....gawd..help me...(determination)must get the story of my plight on slashdot....can hear footsteps approaching....must seek salvation.
Didn't get me out of the military though. However flat feet got me kicked out.
That was one of the first things my Dr wrote down in her notebook about me. Then again, were I extremely into books she wouldn't have written anything except maybe 'needs more exercise'. :P
Oh and um, she thinks I'm posessed by a demon - but she won't write that down cause it wouldn't look good at a medical tribunal
i'm adicted to TV. some hours without it in school is too much for me. That's why i made all those typos
also, i don't sleep more then a comercial break.
Personally, I might be said to be addicted to the internet since I'm pretty much always on it. On the other hand, that's probably because it's just about the only thing to do around here. When I don't have and internet connection available to me, I find myself actually finding other things to do. And another issue to bring up, the only things I really missed while I was away at bootcamp for 3 months, was my tobacco products and alcohol, while I did really miss my news and whatnot, I didn't have all that much of a problem leaving it behind. It's my opinion that these individuals only wanted to get out of military service, and not spend their year in prison (as is Finnish law, mandatory service, a beautiful thing if you ask me, but Uncle Sam didn't). In my day I've heard some pretty bad excuses to get out of/avoid going into military service, and this is really about one of the crappiest ones yet.
-- Napalm sticks to kids.
Last time I will try to explain:
For the imperialist armies professionalism is the way to go. Americans soldiers in the Vietnam war started fragging their own officers towards the end of the conflict. Why the fuck should some American be dedicated to risking his life to go to Vietnam to fight the spread of Communism? Why should some American joe conscript die in the deserts of Iraq, a country with no force projection to attack the United States?
This is why countries like the United Kingdom and the United States must absolutely have conscription, they do not defend their countries they attack other countries to further economic, political and ideological interests. With the 1960s antiwar movement in the United States, conscripts dieing for ideological and political reasons related to foreign policy became unpalatable to the American public.
First off Israel would need US military aid if Jordan and Egypt did not also receive US military aid.
Conscription works.
Oh yeah, this is my next excuse for jury duty.