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Electromagnetic Suspension System
chuckgrosvenor writes "Every automotive suspension has two goals: passenger comfort and vehicle control. Unfortunately, these goals are in conflict. Two much comfort, and the car rolls and pitches a lot, too much control and you feel every bump. BOSE has found the happy medium by using electromagnetic motors, power amplifiers, & computer control algorithms to even out the road, while still feeling connected to it. Check the quicktime movies to see two different cars stay level while they go through cornering exercises." Reader gatekeep writes "Amar Bose, founder of the Bose Corporation and MIT professor and alumnus, has recently unveiled a new electromagnetic car suspension system. It's said to have taken 24 years to develop. There's only minor technical details available so far, but the author of this piece describes seeing the system allow the test vehicle to jump over obstacles in its path!"
Despite how critical I am of developments like this, I have to say that those videos and the pictures are amazing. This technology could actually be implemented, it seems ready by the look and tone of the article, and thats pretty rare on Slashdot. Most newer technologies featured on /. always seems unlikely and full of holes, but this one seems a lot more solid.
Like the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words. I'd say the video more like a million. And those pictures show quite a bit. Plus the over-exposed headlights picture is a pretty cool way to demonstrate within a picture. But of course the video shows it all. And i think its amazing.
Just my two cents.
$> man woman
$> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
hmmmm
the rest of Bose things it will probably come WAY overpriced.
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
Mach 5! Yeah!
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
I recall hearing about this back in the very early 90's. they made it sound like they had a product and in about a year or two you would see them in the Big 3 cars.... still waiting.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
How long before someone decides to ask Slashdot how to add this to an existing car...
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Here's a pretty cool video about the brand new suspension systems of 1938:o vies&identifier=OvertheW1938
http://www.archive.org/details-db.php?mediatype=m
This is nothing new. The Mach 5 had this in 1966.
This "new" system doesn't even have a kid and a monkey in the trunk, let alone make the "ch-ch-ch-ch" sound.
Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
... one could route the bass frequency from one's car stereo into the suspension to get that extra bass feel?
:D
It would sure beat doing the brake-gas tap dance to headbang in sequence with the music while driving
He who laughs last is stuck in a time dilation bubble.
I like Bose personally. To bad a system like this would be expensive (at least for a few years untill mass production made it more reasonable). Guess that means that unless I strike it rich and can buy a fancy car that would include this (I assume this would be on BMWs or Mercedes), my car will be bouncing on bumpy roads. I'd love to try driving one though.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
Infiniti Q45a
I'd consider driving in Idaho.
If other reasons we do lack, we swear no one will die when we attack
Does it come with concealed machine guns, oil slicks, and bulletproof glass?
SAILING MISHAP
You want your tires on the ground at all times. When a tire leaves the ground, you lose control.
Pitching and yawing can be controlled with proper FBW controls as well as better center-weighted metering.
This is a gimmick. Not surprising, it is Bose... (Ever taken a look at the inside of their "omni-directional" speaker system? They just face the speaker inwards to create an echo chamber. It does nothing but muffle the actual audio.)
Has anyone noticed that many future developments seem to build on sci-fi or fantasy broadcast when we were kids? Just the other day, a news article explained the development of transparent aluminum, an invention first identified in "Star Trek IV". Now, we have a futuristic sports car that can leap over bumps. This invention was first identified in "Speedracer".
By the way, which company built RacerX's sports car? RacerX is SpeedRacer's estranged brother.
Sounds a bit like the smart wheels in Snow crash(Neil Stephson(sp?) go read it, its good) in a rather simplistic way. A genetic precursor maybe, because we all know anyone who read it wants that bike.
Damn the man!
Okay, it can jump over obstacles. But when someone tailgates you, can you wait until the other car speeds up, jump to let it pass under you, then shoot it when it gets ahead of you?
Lost: Sig, white with black letters. No collar. Reward if found!
The Tatsunoko Company built the Shooting Star.
Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
Reverse the polarity -- and it's the galaxy's finest parking brake.
From my amateur race car driver's perspective.
Imagine putting the crew chief in the car-- and basically replacing him with a very small shell script.
Is the car pushing on entry? Back off the front repulsors a few volts. Dial a volt or two into the back... Adjust wedge on the fly.
And the sick thing is, you don't even have to make the driver do it. A few sensors on various wheels and currently available computing horsepower and it'll know on its own. A car that dynamically adjusts itself to optimal handling as the weather changes, the track temperature changes, the fuel load changes, the tires lose grip.
-JDF
All I hope is that this system isn't TOO good. Take electronic sterring - worked great, but people hated it. Why? It's was to good, too "disconnected", you couldn't 'feel' the road under you - it made people uneasy, like they where floating.
Likewise, if this system is so good, so good in fact that people literally don't feel the road at all, they'll shy away from it. There's just something weird about driving and not being able to feel the road under you - it's like being disconnected, giving you a feeling of not being in control.
(Electronic systems tried to compromise by adding force feedback, but it was to late by then)
Looking for hardware (Currently need: Large Etch-a-Sketch) Have one? See my journal!
Allow me to rant for a moment...
I find that just about all products, and automabiles especially, are getting excessively complicated, needlessly...
My current car for instance... The shoulder belt is electronically moved into place when the door is closed, and forward when the door is opened. Since I have to fasten my lap belt anyhow, this doesn't make life one bit easier for me, yet, the sensor goes out, the motor goes out, and either I'm paying shitloads of money to get replacement parts to fix the damn thing, or I'm welding it in-place, and then manually unhooking two seatbelts... Piece of junk. Meanwhile, basic, old-fashioned 3-point seatbelts work better.
These days, cars are mechanically more sound than they were previously, but electronicly less sound. Cars used to overheat because of serious problems... Now they overheat because the $5 sensor (that costs $200 to have replaced) went out, and the electric fan didn't kick on when things were getting too hot... Meanwhile, a mechnical fan, connected to the engine shaft, would have worked just as well, never failed, and would have been cheaper.
Maybe I am just (slightly) paranoid, but it seems as if manufacturers are making things needlessly complex intentionally so that they can sell more cars, or get more money on repairs. Something like airbags I can understand, but 99+% of this high-tech junk is no better than the low-tech solution, and is more prone to failure, and need replairs.
Well, even if it's not intentional, I want no part of it, because facts are facts, and the more high-tech, the more problems there will be.
Getting this back to the topic, I'm sure this new technology is an impressive improvement, but dammed if I want it. Truck drivers might stand to benefit from it, considering their unique situation, but with a car or a truck, the roughness of the ride is a very important indicator of how much damage you are doing to your vehicle.
If their intention is really to allow you to haul heavy-loads, while cushioning small bumps, why aren't they doing it the low-tech way? There are plenty of spring designs that could be used that would make the ride very smooth when there is no load, yet maintain the strength when loaded. You wouldn't get the benefit from it when loaded, however, when a truck is heavily loaded, you normally don't feel the small bumps anyhow... It's only when they are emtpy that the firm springs result in a rough-ride.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Sorry, Ill take adjustable dampening and adjustable height coilovers any day. what my car has...
Although, the electronic control stuff is bad ass, with most of it (on VW and Audi anyway) you can plug in your laptop and go to town with the settings raising and lowering it on command.
?SYNTAX ERROR IN LINE 42
Hm, I guess you can't really know at these early stages if such a product or whatever would succeed in the mass market, if it would, maybe like other people have said, it'd be overpriced. Maybe after they work out all the "kinks." Hopefully it won't be similar to "Micro$haft" products. =)
Free flat screens
Click here to go to the official web page of "Speed Racer".
Little or no technical details, controlled environments that make their technology appear better than it is, and exaggeration. If you read the last article linked, it's not even a fair comparison. For instance, there's this quote:
There's no reason to assume that the Bose suspension does not in any way affect the existing suspension, so simply switching it off is not a fair comparison.
The idea of active suspension is not new, and Bose is not the only one doing it. GM has had "Magnetic Ride Control" for a few years now, and other manufacturers have similar active technologies. While the Bose articles are light on details, it seems that the Bose technology is not far different from other electronically controlled systems (something about electric motors at all four wheels, yet it apparently still uses standard pneumatic suspension components as well).
Bose's flair for hyperbole and marketing is their only real asset. My ass it took 24 years to develop this technology. Perhaps it's been 24 years since there has been any significant innovation in suspension technology (I'm not buying it, though ...), but there's no way Bose has been working on this one piece of technology for 24 years.
Bose can sell a $20 clock radio for $300, and a $1000 home theater system for $3500, and you can bet they'll sell this technology for quite a bit more than average as well, where similar systems are currently optioned around $1000-$3000 depending on the make (ie, Porsche's system is more expensive than Chevy's, and I would expect Bose to be even more expensive than Porsche)
Besides, do you really trust a second-rate "hi-fi" (haha!) company to build the suspension for your car? I certainly wouldn't! Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Chevy, et al have been doing it for far longer, and have a much deeper wealth of automotive knowledge. I'll trust the experts on this one, rather than Bose.
A company, I forget which one, modified a HUMVEE for the Army using a eltromagnetic fluid in the pistons to great a live, dynamic dampering system, increasing the HUMVEEs mobility by 80%. Cool stuff.
Erm... a system just as good as this, if not superior to it, has been around for quite a while, and in its current generation will do everything that this BOSE system does; most probably better. And this is based technology that has been around since the early 50s, with major changes only being introduced in the last 10 years or so.
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-- INSERT --
...The success of Bose is not due to superior products, but superior marketing. This article, this one, and this one all point to Bose offering low quality products with some heavy duty marketing to back them up. I'm really not impressed by this latest invention, it just sounds to me like the "Just add magical magnets" effect. Put on some magnets, call it magic, make some money.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
Mercedes already offer a comperable system on the 2004 SL, CL, and S class. This has been availble in the CL since the 2000 model year. This page is pure Flash, but it describes the system. http://www.mbusa.com/media/richmedia/main/models/t ech_demos/abc/abc.swf
I haven't looked at the video yet, but the first thought that came to mind is, I hope they actually make a good product if it's going into a car which peoples lives depend on. What I mean is pretty much anyone who knows anything about speakers knows BOSE is probably the most overpriced, overrated, POS speakers you can buy, this is probably the doing of the BOSE board of directors rather than Mr. Bose though.
see title
Since it seems all residential streets in America are thoroughly infested with these bumpstops (forcing you to reduce the speed from the legal 25 mph to around 5 mph ), I welcome this new suspension.
...is something similar to this whereby the entire car is quite simply propelled by magnetic repulsion. Think about it: If all the roads had the appropriately polarised magnetic cores implanted in them, surely it would be possible to use the maglev system already implemented in mass-transit systems on a new and unprecedented scale. Is it too much to hope that this might be the first step towards reaching that lofty goal?
In my book, it just figures that a loudspeaker company would be the first to start tinkering with this kind of tech. It's just the sort of thing that you can imagine occuring to some sound engineer after too many hours screwing around with large magnets.
Sign the FSF's Anti-DMCA petit
"BOSE has found the happy medium by using electromagnetic motors, power amplifiers, & computer control algorithms"
To be used in combustion engines exclusively since it'd likely take way to much power for use in a electric/hybrid vehical. But I guess it's the thought that counts, right?
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cornering1.mov
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"Between 1983 and 1987, the Lotus active suspension disappeared (from F1). According to Wright, "The system was being developed for road car use by Lotus Engineering." Many GGLC members may recall seeing videos of an active suspended Excel actually 'banking' into corners and running a slalom virtually flat." http://www.gglotus.org/ggtech/activesusp/activesus pn.htm
If they put those actuators into production, they'll have applications in robotics.
I said this to a friend before and he started laughing uncontrollably but I still think it's a good idea (or at the very least one that should be explored).
Once we have active suspensions, I think it would be cool to actually tilt the car into the turn, much like a boat does. I mean, I wouldn't do it at the extreme angles of a boat but it would help push you into the seat instead of into the side bolsters and you wouldn't be fighting against the sideways force so much this.
I think this would improve the driver's performance much like a good seat, driving position or steering wheel does without actually affecting the performance of the car.
I think things may get complicated with wheel angles (camber I think or the other one? Sorry, too lazy to look it up) but a slight angling might actually give a better contact patch on the outside wheel instead of the inside which would be preferred.
Sunny
Be my Friend
IANCE (Chassis Engineer), but I have an interest in suspension systems as applied to motor racing. The suspension in the vehicle depicted as having a "conventional" system a very poor choice for comparision since it appears to be a medicore suspension system at best. A conventional suspension system with stiffer springs, anti-roll bars, and better dampers would perform drastically better under those types of conditions.
The vehicle pictured appears to be a Lexus LS400, which of course is a luxury barge that sacrifices handling for comfort. I realise Bose is claiming you can have your cake and eat it too - but I'd like to see a more valid comparision before drawing any conclusions - for example, a comparision with a BMW 5-series
This system looks like it would be quite heavy - and I bet you need extra batteries to provide adequate current too. Another question is how much heat the system generates, and how well it performs when hot (any electrical engineers care to comment on that?)
So how does it handle when the chip controlling all that fancy mag-lev suspension system stuff short circuits? Is there a safety mechanism, or do you just lose control and go careening off the road?
Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a soportar Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a espabilar
"When the electro-magnetic suspsension system is a buzzin'
Don't come a knockin'"
Just doesn't have the same ring.
Oh well, at least I can still whip out my catchphrase, "When the caskets a rockin', dont't come a knockin'"
Monstar L
i thought electronic steering went nowhere because the DOT would never approve a system that failed if you blew a fuse.
Now I know what that senile bag of dessicant, Paul Harvey, was carrying on about today. He was really waxing poetic about a system just like it, but I didn't heare him say who was developing it.
Harvey is the #1 pimp for Bose, so he can be expected to finish the rest of story tomorrow.
It just sounds like another active suspension system. Active suspension systems have been around for a couple of decades, slthough not in high production quantities anyplace AFAIK.
Obligatory anti-MS remark...
I wonder if they will use MS in their control system. It would give new meaning to the phrase "my computer crashed" when it flipped your car over.
...to yesterday's news on Drudge Report.
I remember when Slashdot was relevant. Do you?
Properly implemented (admittedly a big 'if'), this could save energy because the energy otherwise spent in damping the suspension can be saved. That's why speed bumps work - quite a bit of your forward momentum is redirected upward. 'Course the fact that it's also very uncomfortable means you also slow down in anticipation.
"Power Hungery Vehiculars" = obligatory mispelling or the company cable cars for a middle-European utility?
to err is human, to forgive is divine, to forget is... umm...
The Chevy Corvette has had Electromagnetic selective ride control for awhile.. not sure how well it works but if the corvette has it i'm sure it's fairly good.. full text from the chevy website..
Magnetic Selective Ride Control Magnetic Selective Ride Control is a real-time, cockpit-adjustable ride control system that adjusts shock absorber damping by means of electromagnetically charged particles contained within the shock fluid. When exposed to a magnetic charge, the fluid properties change, forming a near solid state. With wheel position sensors at each wheel, the system literally reads and responds to every inch of the road, immediately adjusts the damper force on each wheel and responds to changing road and driving conditions. Unlike traditional mechanical shock valves, there is practically no limit to the range of soft-to-firm damping capability. And it responds five times faster than previous real-time damping (RTD) systems. There are two cockpit settings: "Tour" and "Sport," with a switch located on the center console. The "Tour" setting provides more ride comfort and compliance for everyday driving conditions, while the "Sport" setting provides a firmer ride for performance driving and more communication of road feel. The difference for driver comfort is dramatic. Drivers feel less feedback from swells, dips and contours in the road. Real-time damping systems have existed for years, but they have always relied on traditional, mechanically operated shock valves. The breakthrough MR technology, with precise electronic control, represents the cutting edge of active suspension systems.
Kyle
http://www.unlogikal.net/
There's only minor technical details available so far, but the author of this piece describes seeing the system allow the test vehicle to jump over obstacles in its path!"
I've always wanted this: a suspension that would see a speed bump and pull the wheel in automatically.
P.S. To my speed-bump-happy city: screw you, and your hundreds of speed bumps, too.
A problem with these active systems is their failure modes which are usually pretty drastic.
You got power brakes and steering and your car loses power it suddenly gets very hard to brake and steer. In a 'manual' car loss of power has zero effect on your ability to coast to a safe stop.
Now we're adding suspension the list of things that stop working, so you run out of gas and the first pothole you hit breaks a wheel off?
from:n &file=/en/1_0/1_10/1_10.jsp
http://www.bombardier.com/index.jsp?id=1_0&lang=e
"Trains entering curves at high speeds are subject to centrifugal forces that can cause passenger discomfort. Typically, there are two ways to reduce centrifugal forces. The first is to improve the track curve radii or super elevation; this is a physical change to the tracks themselves. The second is the use of train tilting.
JetTrain high-speed rail coaches are equipped with a patented advance tilting system that allows the train to take curves at higher speeds on existing alignments. This improves travel times with no compromise in passenger comfort. The Bombardier advance tilting mechanism reduces centrifugal forces by almost 60%."
(go to JetTrain, Tech, Comfort, Tilt)
1) The car is a Lexus (LS400?), a Japanese lux car. BOSE is a German company. What up wid dat?
2) Isn't it kinda really bad that it can run over speed bumps, umm, w/o letting you feel a thing? And especially parking bumps? The safety impact of implementing such a revolutionary new technology (revolutionary in the true meaning of the word, not what's passed these days on TV as "revolutionary"), which by the way looks great - awesome job BOSE! <wink, wink>, has to be fully weighted before unleashed upon the general beasts^M^M^M^M^M^Mpublic.
Must-not-watch TV!
I find myself watching those videos and thinking "My car doesn't appear to yaw and pitch that badly when i drive, and driving in rush hour interstate traffic i make alot of those maneuvers"
Only explanation I can think is that the courses were driven alot faster than they appear, and then the video slowed down so you can see the effects more clearly.
Anyone else perhaps more learned in this area care to comment?
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
No linear motors ... like "motorized."
Gosh what a great way to describe it... "motorized".
Your car will drive like a concert hall.
Geez, that just makes no sense whatsoever.
--- Ban humanity.
The difference between this suspension and previous ones is pretty much the difference between earplugs and noise cancelling headsets.
Even the magna-ride is still a mechanical/hydraulic system, so it's never going to be as fast as an electromag system.
As far as applications, I'd say it'd be worthwhile to put this on ambulances, or any other vehicle where vibration is really bad.
Have they really been working on this for 20+ years? I think the answer is yes. Bose stuff does tend to be pricey, but that's partially because they go pretty hard-core into far-out research.
BOSE now: buy other suspension equipment lol...sorry (no karma bonus cuz its off topic lol but i had to post it sory)
replacing it with NEW Folger's Crystals! (lets see if they notice the difference)
cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
Lotus developed a wide bandwidth fully active suspension based Esprit many years ago. It was described in a recent issue of Vehicle Dynamics magazine (Sometime between May and July). It was impractical for mass production because the system used too much energy. I'd guess the Bose system has the same limitation. Yet again, Bose shows their expertise with marketing.
Is caused by design.
My brother-in-law is a young, but very well respected manufacturing engineer that graduated from one of the top 5 engineering schools in the US. He related to me that when he had to take the automotive engineering block, his design guidlines were to make it: modular, unrepairable, limited lifetime, and requiring an expensive machine tool infrastructure to build.
This was to prevent shade-tree and small shop mechanics from repairing/replacing/rebuilding parts, and force them to purchase replacement parts. I ran into this in the electronics industry also - you sell the device once, but only you can repair it for the next 20 years.
This sounds like one more unnecessary gimmick, like heated rearview mirrors, temp controlled seats, self-actuating shoulder belts, etc...
When it works right, it will be very nice. When it doesn't, it will be very expensive. And let's not forget that Bose will have this entire system patented, and the control modules probably potted and rigged to wipe themselves if tampered with ("I'm sorry, your module is damaged, that will take 2 weeks and $700 to get a new one").
Thank god that there isn't a software equivalent to electronics potting compound!
When you want something built, come see me. If you want correct grammar and spelling, get a F*ing liberal arts student.
Just pickin' 'cause i use my camera (a lot), but that is not really over-exposure, the technique used there is what is refered to as a "rear-synced" exposure....the flash is synced to bang at the end of the exposure lighting the subject at the end of its movement during the shot. You are most correct in stating that this is an excellent way to show how this suspension acts though...a damn good way. It's also how some very dramatic and motion-capturing shots are taken in nightclubs and other low-light situations. Very nice effect and used here perfectly.
;-)
Again, just picking 'cause i'm love with the camera
I'd think that as ungainly as this thing is, maybe it's a first step towards Stephenson's Smart Wheels. The biggest problem with them was getting actuators that react fast enough. Electro-magnetic actuators certainly feel like the right approach. Think of heads flying back and forth in a disk drive...
The moral of the story is: "Always remember to mount a scratch monkey."
n/t
The jumping sounds great, until the system decides that the bridge guard rail is an "obstacle" that must be jumped over! Wheeeeeee! Try making THAT ride less bumpy, Bose!
...love a lowrider
You don't have the drag of a fan coming right off your engine with an electric fan. You'll get better acceleration. The fan only runs when it needs to, instead of creating constant drag for the engine to deal with. For the little shitboxes people drive today you need to store up energy in battery to have enough power to run a fan anyway.
If the driver is having fun, (s)he will not feel a single bump reguardless of the condition of the road.
Just my $0.00 worth.
it is only after a long journey that you know the strength of the horse.
According to TFA, the system uses about one third of the power that a typical car's air conditioner would.
Considering that an automotive AC compressor consumes between 3 and 5 horsepower. Doing the math, that equates to something around an extra 1 to 1.6 horsepower being required to operate this system.
Which doesn't sound like much, until you do the rest of the math:
1.6 horsepower = 82.84 amps at 14.4 volts. 82.84 amps is a fuckload of current to move around in a car for anything, let alone just to keep the car on the road.
Wake me up when the thing doesn't require fatter cabling than the starter motor, and ceases to present a real safety hazard in the event of (increasingly likely) alternator failure.
Kid-proof tablet..
1966 in Japan (Mach 5 Go! Go! Go!) and 1967 in the US.
There's also magneto-rheologic fluid shocks, they do the same sort of thing but on a different principle. The fluid contains millions of tiny needle shaped particles in a oil suspension. In a magnetic field the particles line up make the fluid much more viscous. It works really well but the fluid is really expensive,maybe this way is cheaper?
well, that's my guess anyway.
You can get just about aftermarket anything for a Chevy, I'm sure someone will come out with a resonably priced kit soon enough.
Seriously though, there are already air ride kits for it. Although not quite right I'm sure Jeg's part number 029-ARF6600 can be adapted to work with a 68.
I want one.
I can count to 1023 on my hands. Ask me about #132.
How mag lev trains work: http://travel.howstuffworks.com/maglev-train.htm
24 years, huh? Well, now we know how long grad students can stay in school.
Seems like when you are riding on a giant magnet, you might have some problems...
This sort of reminds me of the smart wheels from "Snow Crash"...
___ alwaysBETA.com - Hey, you've got nothing better to do.
When you lose power, you electronic fuel injection dies too.
Citroen did this 40 years ago, with a purely mechanical system. The hydraulic suspension that "real" Citroens have was even adopted, in a seriously compromised form, for Rolls-Royce cars. There is a good site explaining it here (warning - garish animated GIF).
Like other posters have pointed out, active suspension like this is nothing new. Toyota had an active suspension version of their Soarer (lexus sc400 for you americans) something like ten years ago.
There's an article at planetsoarer about it.
I dunno about you, but I get motion sickness. I need to feel a good bit of the road's bumpiness beneath me, or my brain gets confused and I barf.
So, will I be able to adjust a setting to make this not-so-smooth?
--TheOrangeSquid Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive
I had the pleasure of working with the team at the University of Texas at Austin Center for Electromechanics developing a similar system ("rack and pinion" motor system vs. linear motor).. that was back in 1998 and 2001.. the first time was for developing a ride height sensor for testing the overall movement of the CG of the vehicle .. and the second time for looking at the marketing for that type of system and a quicklook venture plan for trying to turn it into a business...
.. ambulances, police cars, and luxury vehicles... otherwise it was prohibitively expensive for the average Joe...
... it would drive over those parking blocks (keeps you from driving through parking spots) like they were barely there..
market was pretty weak.. system was too expensive
the CEM system is and has been patented for a while.. there were a number of other companies worldwide (as there always are) working on similar sytems back then too.. even some semi-active systems (rheological fluid is used which increases viscosity under magnetic field.. basically making a variable damper in the dynamic motion equation)
got to drive a HMMWV (military Hummer) fitted with this active suspension.. stock springs replaced with super soft springs and the damper replaced with 3phase DC brushless motor and rack and pinion systems to move the A-arm assembly... the algorithm ran on an Alpha processor to sample acceleromters in the wheel hubs and the frame mounting points for the A-arms.. the difference in acceleration between the relative points would drive the motor to pull the wheel out of the way (or drive it down) of obstacle driving the large acceleration of he wheel hub vs. the mount point sensors...
the engineer turned off the the suspension and only used the soft spring.. did tight donuts in an open field.. the HMMWV had major roll... turned it on, and it was only a couple of degrees of roll.. hardly noticeable at all.. he said they had to actually add a small amount of roll otherwise the the driver couldnt tell when they were turning so fast that they would lose lateral traction and begin sliding (the idea being that roll tells you to back off the accelerator).... cool stuff..
the big push right now is to transfer it to a transit bus..
I know a few people with the older Citroen models (DS and CX)... these cars just glide across the road. There's other advantages too. For one, the cars simply ignore speed bumps. The best part: these cars sink low to the ground when you park them. Looks horrible, much like a car with crapped-out suspension. However, the cops will not be able to wheelclamp the car! (at least this is true on the DX model).
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Still waiting for 'Auto Cruise', 'Microwave Jammer' and 'Super Pursuit', though...
You must think in Russian.
From the summary: Two much comfort, and the car rolls and pitches a lot
I don't know what's more disturbing: The obvious spelling error in the article summary or that fact that, six hours later, not a single nerd has thought it important enough to mention...
Is it possible that I am the only one who cringed when reading "two much"????
I would have to say that explosives are the most abused technology in all of history.
I admit to being a bit dumb when it comes to the internals of a car, but how does this work when the car goes up a hill?
It's all very well smoothing out bumps in the road, but if the "bump" doesn't stop, at some point the suspension has to push the car back up to stop the front hitting the ground of the hill. Wouldn't it have to do that quicker than a normal suspension that wouldn't have squashed up so much to smooth out the ride? Wouldn't that give a rougher ride?
When this gets to be in normal cars, it's going to end the day of those god-awful "traffic calming" measures, where they embed humps in the road. Damn, but I hate that lurch-lurch sensation and the slowing and starting those things cause. Good riddance to them.
A car with properly set up and maintained Citroen hydro-pneumatic suspension is really, *really* amazing to drive. It's a shame you can't import them into the US. I know there are a handful (literally) of DSes, CXes and G-series kicking about.
but I would rather see cars become simpler, not more complicated (yeah when pigs fly). At the rate we're heading they're going to be utterly impossible to work on yourself, and will be disposable. This will be hideously expensive and very wasteful.
Controlled suspensions on the market are mostly adaptive rather than active. They adapt the damping and may adapt the ride height at low frequencies.
A fully active system has a large range of frequencies to handle. Its relatively easy to do the visually impressive low frequency parts of events such as a bumps, pot holes and body lean. The higher frequency components of events and from typical road roughness are tougher to isolate with active components. Notice that the Bose system uses a "wheel damper" to try to isolate mid frequencies.
I wonder if anyone outside of Bose has ridden in the car? If you did, I suspect that while you head stayed level while driving, your teeth would be chattering from higher frequency vibrations the electromagnetic system couldn't catch.
Looks great in a demo, but lots of hard to overcome obstacles, real show-stoppers: (1) COST-- How many people will pay an extra $X,000 to fix what's a non-problem for many drivers? Is this enough volume to bring the cost down to reasonable levels? (2) Reliability-- Any system that involves that many amps is going to have a certain failure rate in the driver electronics. It's possible the legal liabilities may make the system untenable. (3) We're talking major watts of heat dissipation here. The actuators may be able to handle the occasional swerve or bump, but can they handle 60 minutes of washboard road? Not likely without an active liquid cooling loop. (4) False alarms. If this is like most systems of this kind they have ultrasonic or laser sensors to look at upcoming bumps. Works fine on a clean dry road. But add water, snow, blowing dust, or blowing plastic bags, and the sensor is likely to "see" a big obstacle and command an abrupt "wheel up" command. Very nasty induced bump! (5) Lack of driver feedback. If the system hides road conditions from the driver, they may easily end up going waaay too fast for road conditions. Everything will be fine until the system gets to 100%, then all heck might break loose as the wheels lose traction. Airplanes have to be specifically designed by law to give plenty of warning before getting into dangerous parts of the performance envelope. It's time this requirement apply to autos also. (6) Noise. Notice the movies are silent! How much noise do the actuators make, and is this noise less irritating than a little body lean? This may be a technology that's always really neat looking from afar, but not worth it once all the drawbacks are considered.
The Citroen system has a reaction time of the order of seconds.
The Infiniti system was about 2 Hz
The Lotus system was about 25 Hz
There's no real comparison between the three. Citreon is basically self -levelling suspension, the Infiniti was probably rubbish (I didn't drive one, just saw the video)), and the Lotus system was the aspirational target.
I have my doubts about the Bose system, but there is no doubt that in principle they may be able to do what they suggest. Just as a cynical viewpoint, maybe those struts are big enough to hold coil springs.
The official state vehicle is a '79 Blazer.
Reminds me of a story I watched on the discovery channel regarding some cool hummer updates using MR (magnetorheological) fluids in the suspension. As you apply varying amounts of electrical energy, the fluid becomes more viscous, making the suspension more firm. It was really wild to watch them energize a drum, dip it in a plastic tub of this dirty looking oil, and watching it stick to the drum like it was freezing. After several seconds there was quite the buildup. They lifted the drum out of the fluid, then turned off the current, causing all of the fluid that had collected to just start flowing off (gushing, really)of it. REALLY cool.
If it's anything like Bose's audio products, they will never release any measurements on the suspension, but it will be obviously 10x better than current models.
Basically, airbags started to make the news and Congress decided automakers were taking too long to implement them. So they passed a law stipulating x% of new cars sold had to have an automatic restraint system, with x increasing each year until it hit 100%. For a few years in the mid to late 80s, automakers that couldn't get airbags implemented/priced low enough used the automatic seatbelt thingamajig to satisfy the law. It was never "in style" - everyone hated them. That's why the lap belt wasn't attached. There's no way to automatically move the lap belt out of the way while the occupant is getting into the seat.
Bose is infamous for filing libel suits against people who review their products and report anything that's not openly admiring. That's why you see so few reviews; the only ones that get published tend to be the ones they've commissioned themselves.
People who know their stuff are not impressed with Bose products, but they have learned not to mention it except in private.
I think you mean "Lotus Esprit".
Optimal control of the vehicle requires a certain amount of springiness and dampening in the system. When a vehicle is properly suspended, you do not "feel every bump", though you may feel more than you would in a "luxury" ride.
A suspension tuned for optimal control on a flat circuit is unsuitable for common city-street driving.
save $300 and pick up a pair of the Apple (well, Harman/Kardon...) Pro Speakers, the little spherical jobbies - on top of looking pretty damn cool, they have Insanely Good Sound, MUCH better than my roomie's Wave Radio (which is really just a set of cheap clock radio speakers with some EQ hardware and a fancy-schmancy resonant cavity to make the sound richer). yes, you need a $1,000+ computer to hook them up to, but if you already have the mac, save your money.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
I actually saw a demonstration of this in 1997 at Bose Mountain (as did every MIT student taking Acoustics). No spring or hydraulic based system can compare with it, period. It responded with almost 18" of movement within milliseconds. It drove over a 9" speed bump at 75mph without moving. By changing the computer program, they were able to modify the handling of the car from zero-feedback to Porche to Lincoln. Hydraulics (and I worked on those for a while) are just not as tunable as actuators. So there really isn't anything "superior" to it at all in terms of handling performance.
On the other hand, the actuators were very, very expensive because of the long rare-earth magnetic plates required. They also rose up out of the wheel well by a good 18" (.5m). I bet they've spent the last 7 years making it compact. The batteries took up the entire trunk. So it seemed to be impractical to my untrained eyes. They appear to have licked the power consumption, and if they can make truly it compact, it'll be just dandy.
I'm tired of all the extra CRAP on vehicles!Its just more garbage that will break down and cost way more than its worth to fix.
The goal of automakers needs to be to SIMPLIFY their product.Eliminate new exciting unneccessary technology in favor of a superior product,like they used to make.
Lets face it,who wouldnt rather drive a '72 GTO than a new firebird?Who wouldnt rather work on the '72? buy parts for the '72?
Even emissions garbage could go in all but models sold in major cities.We just DONT NEED IT!
It was the beginning of the downfall of the car and like Al Gore environmentalist toilets we all eliminate in.Its a BAD IDEA that needs to GO!
We need OpenCar manufacturing.Let the people design cars.Bypass legislative morons with a National Emergency for better cars for citizens.
We havent gotten our moneys worth out of cars since the early 70's.Cars should last 10 years not 4.Man should be able to work on cars without proprietary tools and expensive computers.
whew,outa breath.carry on.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
I'd love a version of this for my boat. Especially when I'm drift-casting, when waves and wakes of other boats throw me into a crazy rocking, which can upset bait tables and beer bottles. Some floating oil platforms have stabilization tech, but it's of course much heavier duty, and much more expensive. I'd like some kind of smaller scale compensation that could keep a 65', 50 ton steel hull perfectly stable in 3 foot waves, or at least 1-2 foot waves.
If this thing worked, it might be fun to tow a 110'x32' steel barge out to sea, and have parties on it. It also seems like the passing waves carry lots of energy, which might be harnessed to power the compensation mechanism somehow. Where's the trickle down of tech from drilling platforms to the recreation market?
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make install -not war
... that we don't "see this on 6-figure rally cars or trophy trucks" is competition rules.
Every sanctioning body needs to make decisions about allowable technology, for reasons of safety, competitiveness, and afforability.
Active suspensions are banned in almost every series, since they were banned in F1 about 10+ years ago.
The Can-Am series in the 70s was about the last real unlimited rules series, and it eventually folded, but not before seeing cars produce some insane speeds and crashes. Minimum weights, engine size limits, intake restrictors, etc. are designed to limit speeds to levels where crashes at least have a hope of not killing drivers and spectators. Note the new F1 and IRL rules this year, and restrictor plates for NASCAR races at the 'super-speedways' such as Daytona and Talladega.
Automatic shifting, 'launch control', 'traction control', and other types of 'driver aids' found on many sport luxury cars are banned for competitive reasons, i.e., the concept that the driver should control the car, not some software. NASCAR bans use of all data systems during races to prevent performance enhancing feedback loops.
Costs are a huge factor everywhere, and every series must manage them to survive. Even in the global premiere Formula One series, with TV audiences of over a Billion (yes, "B") every weekend, and sponsors able to support annual budgets of $400 million for a single team, the primary concern is lowering costs so that the series can remain viable. Use of exotic metals such as beryllium was banned years ago to limit costs, and a major set of rules changes to reduce costs is now being hotly debated.
Similarly, NASCAR still mandates iron-block, push-rod V8 engines, with carbeuration. Toyota, in order to join the truck series had to develp an entirely new (old?) engine, since they make only aluminium-block, overhead-cam, fuel-inhected motors. I don't think they ever even made a push-rod V8.
So, our general impression that the technology that we see on racecars is advanced and refined is correct.
However, this does not mean that anything that has not made it to racecars is less advanced, or could not work well. It only means that the particular technology has not been refined by racing it.
can be very nice indeed when you're getting in and out of the car every 5-10 minutes all day in -5F weather
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... was a black TransAm. But it jumped the tracks, sped off and is now fighting crime. Go KIT
The STS V8 has magnetic ride control
Magnetic Ride Control
It's not a purely electrical suspension, but uses computers to control the amount of damping the suspension gives.
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Mercury cars are all old technology, that's about the worst body roll cornering car that you can get.
Let's see this before and after with a more modern suspension, like a Cadillac STS, CTS, Chrysler 300C, the Pontiac GTO, and of course, any BMW or Mercedes, and then we'll see how good this suspension really is.
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I missed the video where the wheels went up and down over a speed bump like a fricking cartoon. It's pretty amazing. BMW, it's been nice knowing ya!
This is my sig.
The greatest part is the one about the system being able to make the car jump. Itll be just like the good old days with the bouncing caddies in the Bronx!! (grin)